So we had to like learn every song in four keys.
And so you know the challenges of splits and all that kind of stuff when it comes to that.
I was playing four different keyboards and pedals.
Hello and welcome to the Keyboard Chronicles, podcast for keyboard players.
I'm your host, David Holloway, and I'm particularly excited to be here with you.
I've just finished an amazing hour interview with Mr.
Mo Pleasure.
It's hard to come up with new ways to phrase this stuff because we do say it all the time, but the diversity of Mo's career, what he's experienced is just amazing and just a
genuinely humble and lovely guy to boot.
there is so much to unpick in this interview that I hope you'll love from, you know, starting out relatively young with the Ray Charles Orchestra to working with Janet
Jackson, Michael Jackson, David Foster.
and there's a lot more I'm not even mentioning there.
I think you'll get a great deal of enjoyment out of this and also learn quite a bit to boot.
So I'm going to shut up now and let you jump in and listen to both.
Mo, sir, I can't thank you enough for joining us.
It's so lovely to see you all the way from Wales.
How are you?
Great, David.
It's great to be here.
Thank you so much.
No, pleasure is all ours and no pun intended.
So I thought we'd start off with a little bit of a traditional question if you don't mind, Mo, and that's your musical upbringing.
I know you started in music extremely young and we're going to cover so much, but I just thought a bit of context.
What started you in music and got you into your teenage years, realizing that music was a thing for you?
You know, it's always been a part of my life.
David, when I was four years old, my parents got me into piano lessons and they were teaching them at my church.
So it was kind of like a lot of music.
My parents were educators.
My dad was school principal.
My mom was a math teacher and my dad also had this incredible voice.
So he was a great singer and into music, but not in a professional way.
So they got me into piano lessons classically at four years old.
And that was the start of it.
They actually brought me to the teacher and the teacher was like, well, he's too young to start.
then they said, well, just try one lesson with him and see how it goes.
so I did the lesson and then he said, you know, when he was talking to my parents afterwards, he okay, I'll take him as a student because you're going to have to make him
practice and read the music because he wasn't reading the music.
He was just watching me and tapping what I was doing.
You know, so that's when I, that kind of knew that I had an ear.
and all that.
And then just all the way through school and high school and have my own band since like seventh grade, had my own bands of horn sections and all that.
I would write out the music for them, you know, all the way through high school and all that.
And then in college, I was playing in a lot of different types of bands like rock and roll and fusion and straight-head jazz and all that kind of stuff and country and country.
So that was kind of the, think when I started like learning a lot of
types of music, you know, so.
Yeah.
That's been from this bit.
And as we said in the introduction, you're an amazing multi-instrumentalist.
just even if you can't remember back to four, because I know I can't remember much I was doing at four, but just, you know, even a little bit after that, did you find the
classical training tedious or you actually did enjoy part of it or a little bit of both?
A little bit of both and then, you know, the other thing was I was playing other instruments too.
So I was playing the violin, trumpet, which I still play.
So it was like, you know, I didn't, I wasn't a great student as far as like practicing every day, you know, still, still, you know, but, so it was a little bit like that.
And my parents, I'll say again, are academics.
So they were very much like, you know, practice, practice and do your homework, you know, so all school stuff and all that.
So a lot of it, I did enjoy classical music and I love classical music now.
And I still try to like take a stab at it every now and then.
But the cool thing was when I was 14, I started burning fire.
My big sister took me to a concert and had to get permission, you know, and that's when I think that's when I know was my fighting moment of like, okay, this is music that I really
love and really want to do.
I want to play the bass.
I started playing the bass.
So I borrowed the school's bass from Jazz Band in the amplifier and bring it home.
and even before that I plug into our Hi-Fi stereo with the skulls bass and just play along with records and stuff.
Yeah, that's amazing.
So when you left school Mo, what was the bridge between that?
Because I know one of your first big breaks was playing in Ray Charles's orchestra, which is one hell of a gig on its own.
What was the bridge between, you know, high school and getting to that stage?
What was your life like?
Well, I went to the University of and I was there for engineering, doing music on the side.
My parents and a lot of, especially black families then, coming up in like 70s and 80s and stuff, were told that that was engineering was a way to kind of have a job for the rest of
your life and maybe progress up in a company and that kind of thing.
So they didn't really see music as being that kind of location.
So when I got to, when I,
I did my college degree, got my degree and everything, but I immediately went on the road with Ray Charles because I was actually at a concert with Ray Charles at our school, in
Connecticut.
Went backstage to kind of talk to the musicians and just kind of find out, you know, how do you get a gig like this and all that.
And little did I know, I ended up taking the musical director, Clifton Solomon out for a beer at our local hangout.
And he gave me an address, sent a tape.
and I sent it out to Los Angeles.
I grew up in Connecticut.
So sent it out to the West Coast, not thinking that anybody was gonna do anything with it.
And I got a call, went out for audition.
It's a more to the story, but I ended up getting the gig after getting my degree in Georgetown.
Wow.
And just, I apologise, this is my ignorance.
Was that that gig with Ray Charles?
Was that on bass or keyboard or?
Bass.
Yeah, yeah.
So my touring career started on bass, 1985.
And what was your recollection of those first gigs?
And what sort of venues was Ray Charles playing with an orchestra?
I'm assuming larger venues, but what was your recollections of those first bigger gigs?
Well, we did everything.
know, I mean, everything from churches, the stadiums, to the Grand Ole Opry, because Ray had country hits too.
So, and we were all over the world.
Like I went to Europe two, three times within a year, Japan, Australia, you know, we went everywhere.
So, Brazil.
So it was everything you could think of.
know, back then, I think We Are the World came out while I was there.
Ray was on that too, so.
He was like, there's kind of a new popularity to Ray Charles.
And it was mind blowing, you know, just to be traveling and he brought the whole 28 piece Ray Charles Orchestra with us.
So that was, and you know, five singers, five Raylets, full big band.
That was just incredible.
mean, like rival say Basie band or something like that.
You know, so I was definitely at the time I was the guy in the band.
And they all took me under their wing and taught me the ways of the road and how to get around and stuff.
And it's a good thing because it was a tough little jig for that.
We were like three in a room sometimes, four in a room.
We had to pay our own hotel rooms and travel was tough.
Even for a 20 year old kid, it was tough.
But it was great.
I learned so much.
I learned so much playing with him, especially how to follow anybody.
following singers, following the horn players kind of thing.
Cause we had to literally watch his body movements in terms of tempo dynamics, all that kind of stuff.
So tell us a little bit more about that Mozo from two viewpoints.
Tell us about why you needed to follow.
And I have no doubt that Ray was a bit of an improviser and like going with the flow, but also even though you're on bass, what you noticed about him as a piano player and
performer that you picked up.
Yeah, was and raised still to this day is my probably biggest keyboard influence, you know?
Well, I picked up a lot of things.
First of all, just, you know, the basic feel of things, you know, was really important.
I didn't really have even though I was doing it, I didn't realize that that was an important thing.
I always thought that like chops, virtuosity, that was like the goal, you know, but I didn't realize that how far you could make the music, it felt was really as important as
it was.
So,
that you call lagging the time stuff, know, like playing with the time and pulling back on it and pushing ahead with it and all that.
I think that was a big part of what I learned, especially even as a keyboard player, how much you affect the rhythm section.
And he was amazing with it because, you know, if you really soloed his tracks, as we say, of his, what he was singing and what he was playing, you can't believe it was the same
person, you know, just masterful.
the way he played with the big band and where he put the things in the spaces, where he took his time and played nothing sometimes, where he would slow down, once again, the body
movements.
He might do a song two, three different ways, three different tempos, especially here, what I'd say.
We had no idea what was coming at us until he'd start.
Sometimes he would do like double time almost, and sometimes he would lay weight back on it, and we were just learning how to follow him.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And was he a guy that had a sort of would mix things up each night?
Like what sort of song list did you have to learn for that tour?
And were you constantly, you know, needing to do new stuff or it was fairly well set?
You know, some David had a book, but the book had about 500 charts, full big band charts.
you know, a lot of them hits, know, but a lot of them just like Quincy Jones charts and Steve Turi and you know, lot of different great, Szydowski and all that kind of stuff.
So if you could pull up anything at any time, and he always kind of liked to test the band.
We'd a tune before he came out.
So a band tune without him, and then they would introduce him.
So we would actually get a little strip of paper.
I actually found one recently, a little strip of paper that had like the numbers of the charts on them.
So it would be like 108, 96.
And of course it would have, you know, Georgia, what I say and all that would be included.
But the other charts sometimes you may never have never seen them.
So as we're side reading, as I'm side reading this up tempo Big Band chart, I'm looking to my right and he's in the wings, you know.
listening to every note and ready to find somebody if we play the wrong note.
you know, he did like to switch, especially that part up of the show.
And he would change in the middle of show sometimes he would just say, call, just go into something and he's going to be like 96, you know, whatever this kind of thing.
But after we played with him for a while, we really knew.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And I mean, by the late eighties, Mo, you were then kicked off some work with Najee and ended up being their musical director as well.
Tell us a little bit about how you transitioned from Ray to that.
And again, what you learned with that potentially more senior role.
Well, Ray was a West Coast gig, I thought my career was gonna take off as a bass player in Los Angeles.
In actuality, what happened was I did a full tour with Ray, 86, and something just told me that there were other things waiting.
So I'm from the East Coast.
My friend who was with Ray Charles, Jeff Devar, a great guitarist, had a gig in New York City, a steady gig, down in the village.
they needed a keyboardist and he would remember me playing keyboards basically at soundcheck on Ray's stuff, know, on his roads and piano and stuff.
So he asked me if I would do it.
So now I ended up doing keyboard gigs on the East coast of New York City.
And what would happen would be like a lot of acts would come through New York City and at night, of course, after their shows, they would come out and hang out in the village.
And sometimes you could get kind of picked up on a tour from playing there.
And that's basically
kind of the gist of what happened to me as far as being a keyboard player out of the New York area.
But yeah, Najee, my good friend, Ron Lawrence, rest in peace, who was actually from New Haven where I'm from.
I ended up playing with him quite a bit and when they needed a keyboard, he brought me in.
And so Najee eventually became music director and we did a lot of writing songs and we had a gold album.
That thing, was really something that would go, a gold album that was smooth jazz, basically.
kind of a genre at that particular time.
And that took me on, believe it or not, back to Los Angeles because now she ended up doing a tour with George Doode and Diane Reeves and 101 North and a couple of other of the X.
And what they were doing on the West Coast was one band, several artists, one band, and they would call it the Jazz, forget what they call it.
But they started doing a lot of those and I got hired for those.
That brought me into George Doode and brought me back into the West Side.
And as you can imagine, being a keyboard podcast, can't let George Duke go by.
tell us about, I mean, George was obviously an icon and had his own style to say the least.
Tell us about George and what, again, you'd learned from him or what you observed about his performance and style.
Well, he certainly became a huge influence on me musically, of course, you know, and just so much soul and so much feeling and so much giving and generosity even in his playing,
you know.
He was just a master, actually, obviously one of the very best ever, you know.
But he was also that kind of person too, very giving.
He actually took me kind of under his wing.
I call him my musical dad because he's the one that introduced me to so many of the gigs that I...
like kept on going and doing, including with Shelfarell or If One Is Fire and on and on.
And that led me off to other things.
without George Duke, I would not have had the career that I've had.
But he was just a great, great man, very kind guy.
Of course, you know, he's great singer, very humble.
I did not even think he was a good singer.
And this gave me a lot of confidence, know, really believed in me and was always there for me.
Hired me to do some of the recording.
and stuff like that.
Yeah.
And so was that one of your earlier introductions to synthesize and stuff?
Cause obviously George was renowned for using a lot of really cool sounds and stuff like that.
Was that one of your earlier exposure to that side of keyboard playing?
I would say sure at that level.
I had already been playing with bands and using synths and all that and doing a little bit of programming and all that.
But when I got to George, the Moog and all that and just even the sounds that he had on the newer keyboards, he was very generous with that.
He would often use the sounds for the samplers and all that kind of stuff.
He was very giving in that way.
I pretty much copied him in terms of like he was playing to Kurtzweil.
I get to KurtzweilPC88.
He actually played two waiting keyboards.
His station was movable so he could push it around the stage and of course the duty stick and being able to walk out in the audience with wireless MIDI which was really new back
then too.
yeah, I did learn a lot from him in that way and how to use those sounds and again in a classical way as well.
George is a great classical player.
You know, that handles Messiah, if really check that out, if anybody's listening.
But the way they like to use it, how class one punk worked together in God school and all that, really went from George to...
Yeah, absolutely amazing artist.
And let's move on to Earth, Wind and Fire.
Although just for the sake of our audience, this is an example of how diverse most careers been.
I'm skipping over people like Philip Bailey, Patty Austin, John Lucian, but I'm going to jump to Earth, Wind and Fire at this stage.
So how did that contact come about?
Particularly given you said your first, you know, big concert you went to was Earth, Wind and Fire and they blew your mind.
How did that come about?
Well, I was living in LA, starving, you know, and I came to LA because George said, hey man, you can work in LA.
So I came out there and I was, you know, I'd get the occasional gigs.
I was working with Everett Hart a lot and, you know, a few things here and there and I was still doing my East Coast stuff.
So, you know, I'm staying alive basically.
But one day I got a call saying that Philip Bailey is working on a solo project and looking for people to write with him and George Duke recommended to.
So I'll say, my God, Philip Bailey, know, I was a super fan.
And he came out from my house.
was, trying to tell you David, was starstruck to the point where I couldn't hardly speak, you know, much less play anything.
He just saw something in me.
I had this little demo tape that I had made.
I just gave it to him, you know, when he left.
And I just hit it right, the Earth, Fire was reforming.
They had done some gigs with Phillip and Breeding White, I think some jazz festival down in San Diego or something, and they saw the reaction of the audience just going nuts and
stuff.
they said, hey, know something, we could maybe try to put this back together again.
And they did.
So that was 1993.
They put out an album called Millennium.
I just hit it right to where they needed a keyboard player.
And George recommended me, and he had the tape that I'd given him, Phillip did.
played it for Maurice, Maurice liked it.
And I get this call, you know, want to know if you want to come play with us on the Arsenio Paul show, which is a TV show, it's the first thing I Then we ended up going to
Japan in 94.
We did a couple other TV gigs.
went to Japan in 94.
And after the 94 tour, that's when Maurice decided that he was gonna, know, Parkinson's got the best of him.
and he wanted to do less gigging, less touring.
So then Philip kind of took over as lead man and he made me the music director of the band.
And that's when it started.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now I do want to take a bit of a side trip using Earth, Wind and Fire as the example, but you've mentioned that you're a musical director now already with two artists and you've
done a lot since including one of your current gigs that we'll talk about.
But what is your approach broadly as a musical director?
I know it changes by artists and what they expect, but just tell us about what your approach is as a musical director.
I try to get the right people in the world.
half of it.
That's three quarters of it right there.
You got the right people.
And I don't just mean talented people.
I'm talking about people that get along, people that are willing to...
I mean, everybody's different.
Some people read music, some people don't read music.
A lot of people learn this way, that way.
It takes longer.
So it doesn't matter to me.
I try to just get people that, to me, fit.
And also...
and play their butts off.
that's, you know, there's no shortage of those kind of people.
And then I just try to like, you know, let them give them enough space to where they can do what they do and let the artists know that I've got their back.
So kind of like say, I don't know, airplane pilot or something, certainly nobody can get hurt, but to give them the confidence, give the artists confidence that like no matter
what happened, even on stage, that I could get them through it, but give the band the confidence.
that they're able to be themselves even though they're playing whatever type of style or type of music.
Let's say there's somebody that doesn't read music or something.
find ways to like take, let's take a break here.
Maybe we do this one tomorrow.
Okay, here's the tape of it.
Listen to it or that'd be great.
So not to embarrass them.
I'm always somebody that, you know, I happen to negotiate salaries sometimes.
I'm always a pro musician.
I have to deal with the managements as well.
there's always that kind of, I'm that bridge between band and artists, artists, know, band and management, artists and band, you know, and it's, it's a, sometimes a thin line to
walk, but you know, somehow I've been able to do it and I'm always praising people.
I'm always giving them a pat on the back when they do something good.
So I try to stay positive.
Yeah.
No, great perspective and totally meeting this in an anonymous way most.
So not talking about Earth, Wind or Fire or any other artists, but have there been challenges for you as a musical director that you never thought you would have to face?
So whether it's personnel or personalities or whatever, without mentioning any names, have you had some big challenges as an MD?
So many, so many, because I can tell people that I kind of train or mentor.
It's about psychology, even more than music.
And sometimes you're a music director for, say, case of Earth, Moon, and Fire, I'm music director for a whole band.
I'm not just one person.
And there's a lot of personalities, a lot of people with lot of different needs and wants, and people want to...
The thing about it is it's a weird balance of...
being a kind of democratic thing, like, okay, what does everybody think?
You know, and then there's that time I just kind of laid out a lot.
So here's what we're doing, you know, even if I'm wrong, you know, let's, or let's try this, you know.
So like, I think that I've been able to maneuver somehow through all the situations I've had.
And they've been very, they've been very, you know, the types of artists that I've worked with, and the styles of music I've worked with.
know and what those what those people want what the artists wants with the band needs you know preparation before before we actually even get in the room it's very very important
and now it's become a lot easier in the digital world you know back in the day we had to send out tapes you know consent tapes to everybody now it's just you know sending up three
charts every window so I've watched it change a lot
watch that change the way rehearsals are run as well because now you have less rehearsals, save money, you you less time to do it.
Sometimes you have no time to do it, you know, a lot of the way things are now like you're expected to show up kind of knowing everything, quick rehearsal in the afternoon, boom,
we're playing it that night.
So I don't think that's great.
But I think that, you know, I've been able to do that if I have to in most situations.
Yeah, that's great.
And just probably that that leads to my last MD sort of question was, yeah, how do you like to run a rehearsal if you do have time, if you have a couple of days, what's your
sort of approach to getting everyone on board and making sure you cover the material?
Well, first of all, if I do have the time, and sometimes I do, I think the most important thing is to get to know each other musically and get a band sound, know, whatever that is,
get a good sound check, make sure everybody's hearing each other, make sure everybody's listening to each other, you know, as we're playing.
So I want everybody to be comfortable and not, you know, not going, oh God, I didn't even hear the other guitar player, you know, I was playing all over them or whatever.
I try to build it up from the bottom to where like everybody...
play as little as you can right now.
You know what I mean?
Let's just think about it as a classical piece.
Your part goes like this, yours is that.
Dynamics change here.
You want to build up to this here and that's gonna be the money note that the singer's gonna sing, you know, in this and that.
then, you know, take it on up from there or come back down again.
And I want everybody to watch me and I want everybody to watch my body movements because I'm directing the whole time.
I'm playing, so I'm not able to conduct, but.
my Miami, but I want you to get used to me and what I do get used to the drummer because sometimes he has to end the song.
So, you know, I'll be like, okay, this one, the drum was going to end it.
So everybody watched him and watch where it's at, you know, just like we're raising, you know, Ray Charles, basically the same thing.
so that's important to me as well.
are we already teaching them like my style and the way I move, you know, what it reading some
with the hand signal guard on.
Yeah, no, great.
And I mean, so you're only in your early thirties, you're musical director for Earth, Wind and Fire.
And then by your early forties, so only a matter of years later, you're touring with Janet Jackson.
And that's obviously when she's at her absolute, you know, she's still at her peak doing stadiums and arenas.
What was the contact there again?
Who put you in touch with, you know, the Immortal Jackson family and got you, and allowed you to do that gig.
There was somebody named, he's now music director for The Voice.
His name's Paul Mirkovic.
You know Paul?
Yeah, Paul's great.
Unbeknownst to me, Paul had seen me play with their phone in fire.
So for Janet, was an audition, there were only a few people asked to audition, and I was one of them.
So that's how that got started.
I learned a lot in that game because...
You know, on Earth, Fire, we were really encouraged to play.
I mean, it's still jazz, you know, even September, you know.
All those songs have room in them for you to kind of be yourself, you know.
And I came in after, you know, well, Vance Taylor was on before me, but Larry Dunn, you know, was just Charles Stanton.
All those Bill Meyers, all those keyboardists put their stamp on that music in a way that
I could never could so I just kind of tried to be myself as much as I could so I had a completely different style and Sonny Emery who was the drummer was Earth, & Fire and I
were best buddies and really connected so we were always trying to take it to different places.
Janet Jackson on the other hand was the first dancer gig that I'd done where the dancer was then you know, Wind Fire we had dancers but they were you know, ornamental to what we
were doing as music group.
This was like
We need to play that same sound every night.
It's got to go just like that.
All the levels of the keyboards and everything has to be the same every night because they're coming out of the side fills and the dancers are used to wearing the same thing,
same show.
So there was this consistency thing.
And also that was kind of the advent of in-ear monitors.
So that's the first time I used in-ears, which was a really, really different experience having the band be like a straight line to where normally we wouldn't be able to hear each
other.
but hearing every little bit of it having it sound like you listen to a CD and cheap excessive keyboard programming where every little sound was, you know, and then
troubleshooting on the fly, which was because that was those are the midi days.
So I had my rap was under the stage, the mic tech and I had a microphone that I could talk to the tech.
So if there were
any kind of problems or anything like that I will be saying okay turn off the D550 it's sticking you don't turn it on until I tell you you know boom we end it's like okay turn it
on now you know we'd have to wait 20 seconds for the thing to fire back up again push the sound again
Wow.
And just on that Mo, let's talk gear just for a sec.
We're not a gear focused podcast, but I'm going to take a slight step back to Earth Windify.
What were you playing keyboard wise in that band?
so many things on different tours, David.
I remember I had PC-88, Kurtzweil for one bar, I think the live album we did out of PC-88.
And then on top I believe I had the, I want to say JV-80 or something.
was playing a lot of Roland gear in a rat.
I had D-550s, had the Kana Maja, the MKF 20.
I had the catch 50, the 80, 70, know, just stuff like that.
I had the Kurtzweil sampler 2000 in my rack.
And then another year I took out a Fender Rhodes.
Oh wow.
88 key Rhodes, which we had put through like some pedals.
We had like Camelot pedal, know, Phaser and stuff like that.
So there was that.
I'm trying to think of what else.
Then of course I had the wireless MIDI thing.
So I had my own little stick that was painted with earth on the bar symbol.
So still have it.
that was a roll in the X with the X1.
for a at one point I had the smaller one too, KX5.
But I had wireless MIDI, which was getting affordable.
I had the one from the guy in Sonic guys, Aquila.
and used to cellular phone antennas to read it.
Sometimes it would stick, know, like I'm thinking about how to panic button.
Yeah, so that's what I remember the most.
no, that's okay.
That no, that's brilliant.
Thank you.
And with Janet, obviously that's a highly, as you said, highly dance and pop driven act.
Lots of different sounds.
had a rack you mentioned the D550.
I imagine there were a lot of sort of, yeah, in sonic and samplers and stuff like that.
Yeah, yeah, had some, well we had, yeah, of course we had that in sonnet, because that's the classic orchestra hit sound that Jim and Lewis used, you know.
And we'd have two of everything, so in each rack, we had two racks, so like actually, that's first of my experience, if your rack goes down, roll in another one, one big, you
know, attachment, and then your back will it up and running again.
I started with two keyboard players, then the one left.
and I was covering it by myself.
when we had two, we had identical systems.
then they could, so you could use either RAP or either WIR.
And it just passes through different places.
And with some, 2001 obviously tracks were used to some extent, not as much as they are nowadays.
Would you have had to have synced in with click tracks and tracks as well?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
That was a big part of it.
And it was easy.
You know, I mean, it was really an easy thing for me to do because we had a great drummer, Brian Fraser Moore, who's now gone out to beat the cat.
And Ethan Farmer and, you know, the band was such that everyone was just so, so tight and so locked in, that we could follow anything, you know?
And literally, what people don't realize is that when it's really good and we have a great drummer, the click goes away.
You know, you don't...
really hear it anymore because the drummer has kind of buried it in their groove.
They know how to like make it breathe and pull back on this and then snap it in on the one and all this kind of stuff.
You're really just really so used to it at that point you forget that it's there.
Yep, exactly.
And I mean, on that tour, Tummo, you weren't just playing keyboards, you were playing guitar and trumpet as well from memory.
what, I mean, it must've been hectic every show.
You must've been working hard.
It was a lot of changes, know, and sometimes the keyboards and trumpet, you know.
So I had to choreograph everything, but it's just like everything else when you're playing keyboards, when you're you know, especially a lot of parts and all that.
Choreography is, you know, it's okay, now I hit the button, now that'll be this, the split's gonna be here for this, and then, you know, make sure I don't go past that because
that's the exposure here, something, and the string parts, the...
to middle C and then up, you know, this kind of thing.
And so I had to do it also with the horn.
So I'd be like, okay, I pick up the horn.
I had a stance, like grab the horn, maybe blow a few notes out at the warm up while I'm you know, orchestra hits or whatever.
And then, you know, kind of be ready to do that.
But it was just, it was just choreography, you know, same thing with the guitar.
I was just playing acoustic guitar on one the tracks, just knowing that you got it coming up.
So you like,
we would be ready, boom, and on the blackout, know, and maybe you had checks to help you, which are a big help.
And I mean, obviously nowadays, most of us having that level of complexity will use iPads or computers to prompt us.
Did you have stuff written down or was it you running on memory a hundred percent?
100 % memory by the time you're out there.
you rehearse for a month.
Later on, I was on gigs, I don't want to surprise anyone, but I was on some gig where we had to play songs in different keys.
And that would be Michael Jackson.
So we had to learn every song in four keys.
so know the challenges of splits and all that kind of stuff when it comes to that.
I was playing four different keyboards and pedals.
and just memorize it you know sometimes it wouldn't work to where you know that split wouldn't work anymore because you need a little bit more for that high string to your
playing with your left hand you'd have to change it if you played it in A flat now you have to it straight with your right hand and do the other thing with your left hand.
We're in the Jackson family, Mo, we might as well talk about that.
So even though I'm probably jumping ahead a little bit, but yeah, what, what was the role with Michael and, and, and yeah, what, again, what you learned?
that's, as you know, another whole level again.
Yeah, well that was second keyboards, Michael Bearden first keyboards.
Michael just conducted the Oscars.
true.
You see somebody I've known since the 80s, we were both kind of playing up and coming artists.
So I'm playing second keyboards, so I'm playing horns, spins, bells, whistles, organ, playing explosions, sound effects.
Because a lot of the things on the Michael Jackson show,
We just had to watch him because there's just no way to program that in when he's gonna point and do an explosion or Walk across the floor open up his suitcase or so a lot of
that was us watching him and Once again splits and knowing which ones Are the funds are which you know and not not messing that up, you know But I have to do that even with I
even played the Ringling Brothers circuits for a while
Yeah, I the circus and I played on bass.
I played on keyboards and I had to watch the clouds.
They had they do a segment and somebody hit over the head with a piano.
You have to that sound and then you know the string boring boring boring and all that kind of stuff.
And I literally when I started on the gig subbing for somebody else deafening for someone and I had a cloud in the works of it with me telling me OK here comes the piano.
crash you
I love that.
That's probably the most unique music related story.
That's amazing.
Yeah, the circus is no joke.
Circus is long show that is in three rings at the same time, you know, and moves like this and has a million sound effects and it's a live band playing everything.
I can't think of a better preparation for a Michael Jackson show just because of that diversity and how hectic it is.
I imagine the rehearsals for something like Michael Jackson, like Janet, there would have been many weeks.
mean, as you know, the documentary or the This Is It, it shows you just how obsessed he was with perfection.
So it must have been a challenging rehearsal process.
It was.
Once again, know, the band was incredible.
And there were so many of us like sharing the work, know, the Sherry who was playing percussion, Sherry Johnson, people didn't realize it, but he had foot pedals to play
percussion sounds, as well as what he was doing here.
So sometimes you look like he was running or something while he was playing.
He was actually hitting triggers with his feet.
Sugarfoot had triggers for sounds in addition to his drums.
And there was me and Mike and you know, so.
you know, two guitar players, four singers and all that.
We covered a lot of ground.
It's hard to mention someone as iconic as Michael, but I think Roberta Flack definitely fits that description.
She obviously passed recently.
Tell us about what your involvement was there as well.
mean, know, rest her soul.
Yeah, well, if, as I've always said, if George Duke is my musical dad, Roberta is my musical mom.
Although I should really say auntie or something because I said that on stage one time and she was like, you know, said, mean, you know, young auntie, you know.
So I, know, I love Roberta.
I love her very dearly as a person.
I love her music.
And that was whole different kind of learning because Roberta's musicality is so
She's so sensitive.
Her touch on the piano is so beautiful and so classical.
A lot of people don't realize that she's that deep a player, that she can play classically.
And she's a teacher.
So I grew up around teachers.
So that kind of mentality and the way it comes into everything that she does, including how she talks to an audience, how she talks to us, what she's actually doing musically to
teach us.
And she was
just great at mixing styles.
And she was just great at letting us be, know, bring out everything that we had as far as our talent.
didn't hold us back.
And she was a very giving person as well.
Like what I mentioned, I called her my musical model at stage.
That's when she had come up to Connecticut for me and done a show for my old high school.
Things that I do in my high school for a style.
scholarship program for something called ABC.
And she came all the way from New York, came up and did it, no charge and everything.
And she's also my daughter, Nadya's godmother.
So yeah, we're very close.
That wouldn't me really hard.
imagine, yeah.
I had spoken to her, last time I'd spoken to her was maybe two months ago on FaceTime.
She wasn't even able to speak, but I played a song that I wrote for her.
and i'm about to release it and she's saying it
great.
Well, let's actually talk briefly about that then.
Cause you on top of the, are going to talk about a couple more artists, but tell us about your own amazing solo output, which has been consistent as well.
So tell us what you've got coming up and also what you're most proud of from your previous releases.
Wow, great questions.
know, I have from, yes, my only solo album that I've released, it's called Elements of Pleasure.
And when I say release, it's not on Spotify, it's not in Apple Music, it's not, it was done in my garage in LA and it was also done in hotel rooms and in my basement in Georgia.
But it's got so many great musicians on it.
And it was, that was my learning album.
I'd done an album before,
called Audio Caviar, with someone that kind of plucked me out.
It was done with Ralph Johnson from Earth, Wind & Fire.
He kind of plucked me out of the band and said, I want to do Project Review.
We ended up connecting people in Copenhagen, Denmark.
Started the album over there and ended up finishing in LA.
that album's got Jonathan Butler and Howard Hughes on there and just tons of other guests.
Earth, Wind Fire always were on there.
Earth, Wind Fire is on the Alma K and
um, for me and Philip and all there are all on one track.
We actually reunited, um, some members, but that was kind of what I learned.
Okay.
I can do this myself.
So I got a microphone.
We got a preamp learning how to, it got digital performer.
Someone kind of taught me how to use it.
Some senior monitors and I just started on my own, um, and did elements of pleasure.
Um, that would, I just hit, that's about 2001 and I just hit it right where everybody was starting to do that.
You know,
I had learned on audio caviar, to this day, I think it's the earliest I've heard anybody ever doing this, what we now call wave sharing.
I was in Copenhagen and we sent a track to George Duke and he played on it and sent it back to us.
And that was a lot harder then because high speed internet was the last beginning and there was no media to actually do that on.
was one DIRG that we found that would do it.
Um, and it took forever, you know, just to my blood, my file.
But, um, but yeah, so, but when I got to elements of pleasure, I found out that that could be done a lot quicker, better.
So I was, um, I remember being in Japan, Canada, Jackson, 2002, I had, um, a keyboard and my, and my speakers and stuff brought to my room every day.
And I had a CD burner.
I'd made, um,
meetings with record labels in Japan that would come meet me in my hotel downstairs.
was also like a Kinko's, you guys don't have Kinko's over here but.
Yeah.
So I my little artwork going out there, out a Kinko's, burn my CDs that I just been making upstairs in my room, come downstairs and have meetings with Sonia Reverend and my demo.
So I felt like I was like kind of on the cutting edge of
doing things independently and you know was going to meet him and can a lot and selling artists.
I had had partners in France and Copenhagen and all that kind of stuff so I was really busy kind of promoting American musicians all over the world you know and I felt like kind
of a little bit of a pioneer in that regard but now it's just done.
No, it definitely wasn't cutting edge time though.
And Moe, you mentioned you've got something coming up.
you mentioned the song that Roberta sang on.
Is it an album or just like a single coming out or what is it you've got coming up?
I do have another album coming up.
The thing is though, now the way it's gonna be coming out is possibly Spotify in terms of streaming it and then selling it at my gigs.
I've got some people that are interested in seeing it another tabloid too.
So I'm in this new world of how our music put out.
I'm trying to figure it out and I've got social media people that wanna do certain things.
But I have a hard drive full of...
means that I've not released yet and it's just like it's gonna be coming out.
Yeah so I'm proud of that.
My wife now is quite a singer her name's Tadma and she's on a lot of the material as well working on her stuff for her own album as well.
That's amazing.
I look forward to that.
And so just taking a quick step back and please correct me if I'm wrong, Mo, but I believe one of your current gigs is as Bette Midler's MD.
Yes, we haven't done anything in a while, but yes, I'm still as far as I know, still having...
another absolutely iconic artist.
You know, what a set, what a voice and so on.
So again, tell us your approach there.
mean, are you, you're, assume you're playing piano or keyboards with, with that.
Yes, I'm a piano, I'm pianist.
And we have an incredible band, like 15 piece band, three harlots, female singers, five piece horn section, two keyboards, two guitar players, percussion, and all the very, best
at what they do, bass.
Her show is great because it's a collective and I'm very proud of that show because I helped her put it together.
I wrote some of the songs for her, co-wrote some of the songs for the show.
We picked the band together.
literally handpicked almost everybody in the band.
She gave me that kind of power, which doesn't always happen.
A lot of times, a new musical director is showing up and the band is already there.
So we picked every person.
We went through every song.
We started with like 70 songs and brought it down through, slowly got it down to an hour and a half show.
And what I love about her show is it's very collected because we go through so many different styles.
We got a Latin tune and we a funk tune and the next thing is some vibe build section where she's telling jokes and we're doing, know, we're answering her jokes with little sound
effects and all this kind of stuff.
And then the next thing would be some beautiful overture for the Disney movie.
And then the next thing, you know, on and on and on.
Hit after hit after hit.
People just love her.
So it was a really great show and she treated us so well as So, big fan of Betts.
So I mentioned before that it's nearly impossible to cover the roster of people you worked with.
I'm just going to throw three or four names at you Mo, just for a shorter sort of couple of sentences on your view on that gig and what you got most out of it.
So I thought I'd start Mary J.
Blysh.
Well, Mary was a very short thing.
I was subbing, actually subbing for David Plasta.
I was going to ask you about David Foster, so feel free to merge into that after Mary T.
God, we could do interview just on David.
But yeah, so he had produced her Christmas album and I had done some gigs with her on that.
This is very professional.
know, my experience with her was, because some of the stuff was just her and I.
And it's very professional, came into the job, very nice.
You know, I didn't really spend a lot of time with her.
No.
And so David Foster, mean, again, I've used the word icon too many times, but he definitely deserves the title.
Tell us about that.
Well, that's another one.
was another, uh, you know, star struck moment for me or me and David Foster and getting to play with them was just amazing.
Um, he is a monster, monster musician.
And I will say this out of all the artists that I've worked with, uh, through him and there have been many, everyone shot the car on it.
I've very much Shelley.
Um, or if one of the fires that you didn't get the man, I mean, what country artists, you know, satara lightened up.
touring with after that, Michael Bolton, on and on.
They, no matter where they come from or what their musical style, when he says, here's what we're doing, everybody says, okay, David, I never.
And is that, I'm really interested in that Mo, because I, from just what I've read and talked to people, he's obviously, he's a demanding, in a good way, he's a very demanding
musician of his fellow musicians.
So is it partly that, and also just the fact that he's got huge credibility.
Yeah, it's literally nailed it.
That's it.
He is that monster and he's a monster piano player.
mean, he's a monster arranger.
does every style that he does.
He's proven his production is just unbelievable.
Our band for the most part was JR Robinson, Nathan East, Dean Barks and Tyra Keckoni.
I mean, literally guys that I grew up listening to their...
There's stuff.
you know, even though he was demanding, he would get it and he didn't really have to say much because we wanted to rise to the level of being great.
both who burns and great keyboardists and does with rain and so on.
And so it was, I, I just felt like I was in the land of the highest when I was there, you know, and, learned a lot from him he's actually very, very nice guy.
Although he gets, he does get,
that stigma of being like tough.
He is tough.
There's a few times that I've gotten a little bit beaten up by him.
got dusted off, got back up on the horse.
we still regard each other.
We have a mutual regard for each other.
which is amazing.
The last one I'll throw at you Mo is you mentioned Chaka Khan and she's about to come out to Australia on a tour.
I mean, she's one of those amazing artists who's been at it, know, 50 years now.
Yeah.
Tell us about that.
Well, in addition to being one of my favorite singers of all time, it's funny, when I met Shaka, I was playing with Rachelle Pharrell, who's an incredible artist, and she was just
sitting in audience and came up and sat in with us, and she didn't know the songs, so she was just riffing, you know, doing her thing.
And this particular song had a keyword solo and like a moat solo in the middle, and here I am playing the solo, and I've got Shaka Khan kinda back and forth with me in this thing,
and I'm telling you.
on the inside, but like, wow, you know, she just excites you in a way that makes you play differently, you know?
So that, in a sense that I've done, you know, quite a few tours with her, especially David, you know?
Yeah.
And she's very, she's lovely.
I she's, one thing I love about Shaka is like everything sounds like it's the first time she's, started.
It's that freshness through Joe Sample, people like that to me sound like you can't wait to hear what's next because you're not gonna, you're not gonna.
They're not gonna do the same thing every time.
That's right.
And so that was refreshing and she and David did the work together.
No, amazing.
Thank you.
And we've got a few, what we call our regular questions, Mo.
So I'm fascinated given how many artists you have played with, has there been a moment on stage where things have gone spectacularly wrong that you can laugh about now?
Yeah, there's something I can cry about now too.
Yeah, there's been a ton.
But we're talking about Janet Jackson and the keyboard programming aspect of it.
There was this one module, was like few rat spaces.
cannot think of the name of it.
It was fat.
It was an analog module for you know, rhythm, bass and all this kind of stuff.
But every now and then it would stick to the rehearsals.
You
I told tech and I told the music director and stuff, hey, know, I don't really feel safe with this thing.
know, it's happened like three times now.
Can we replace it with something else?
But I think it was a situation where we were endorsed by them or something.
So I'm on stage and there's one part in the Jan Jackson tour where it's nothing but the keyboard and everybody's out, you know?
I play the chord or the note or whatever it is and it goes, it sticks.
It's where, to the point where all the dancers are kinda looking back like, what's going on?
I'm the only keyboard player, so.
If you got two keyboard players, you can look at the other one and go, hey, man, what are you doing?
But yeah, that's, there's a million things I could point to and I still play classically,
I've done Rhapsody in Blue several times with orchestras and that's a real test right there.
time I got lost, had to my way back in the middle of a concerto, which is whole other thing, and on and on.
I've been yelled at on stage by Ray Charles.
Oh wow.
Where he stopped the band, yelled at me and started up again, but that was a little bit of rite of passage that happened to me.
Yes, and you obviously survived that, mate.
That's amazing.
And I feel a bit silly asking this because you've already mentioned so many great players, but we ask our guests to tag a keyboard player.
So is there another keyboard player out there that you'd be interested in hearing more about their life story?
It goes without saying, Moe, would give a limb to talk to David Foster, but I'm not sure that'll ever happen.
But you know, anyone you can think of is always appreciated.
Yeah, so many, know, but then I have talked to quite a few of them like when I mentioned Joe Samples and Phil and games, you know, all those guys.
But like, you know, there's a lot of new guys now that I'm kind of like, I would love to their brand, you know, this guy has those has just Malina.
Is that his name?
yes.
Yes.
know, kind of defies gravity to me.
just don't really.
There's a lot of them, you know, that I'll unfortunately never be able to play like.
But also,
Also, Corey, let's talk from here.
don't know.
the
Yeah, I mean it's obvious where a lot of them come from in terms of, you know, church, you know.
There's always that kind of element in it.
And bass players too, know, and some of them I played with, like model Neon I played with, and every time it just messes me up because I just don't understand where it's coming
from, you know.
amazing.
No some great picks there Moe thank you they're superb.
And then the dreaded desert island discs question so five albums if you have to narrow your picks down to five what would they be?
Well, has to be Gratitude by Earth, & Fire.
We have to be in there and have to have some songs from Key of Life.
Keith Jarrett live in Japan.
Yeah.
think it's just a great one.
George Duke, Brazilian Love Affair.
And a fifth one, one of those Funkadelic albums or something.
Yeah.
I think I'd have to have the Barbera Daja for Strings with me somewhere.
It's not an album, but I have to that piece.
family were adopted
love it.
No, thank you.
That's one of the most efficient picks ever.
And you just mentioned Stevie.
I think you did have at least a brief interaction with Stevie.
You've done something there.
Tell us about that.
can't let Stevie go by.
God another huge influence on me, you know Not play with a few times.
I play with me four times And it's always been like, you know, I wasn't expecting it to happen.
He's kind of pull up and one time I'll never forget with Stevie and George dude.
I Was playing with George?
I think it was a scat or whatever was and So I'm here George is kind of front of me there and then there was a piano
behind me and they introduced Stevie.
So Stevie was at the piano and I was in what we call the rocking chair between the two of them, right?
know, so they were talking to each other, know, yeah, George, go ahead, you know, it's kind of thing.
I'll be in the middle just going, woo, freeze this one when they fire, you know?
But yeah, Stevie, we played the White House.
wow.
was doing Motown, under the Obama's and Phil and Gaines was the director.
Yeah.
Wow.
I had him and then came up.
And Stevie will show up anywhere.
There's a million gigs that I played where he was playing to the art and the audience.
You know, if you're playing the Blue Note in New York, Pop It, Catalina's in LA.
He seemed to me play different instruments from different artists.
That's incredible.
Love it.
We're going to wrap up Mo with what we call a quick fire 10.
So 10 quick questions with short and sharp answers.
As best you can recall the first album that you ever heard.
first album I got Jim Croce album and same also Sanfana's album that had everybody's everything on it I can't think
no, gotcha.
No good picks.
Your most important pre-gig ritual.
So what do you need to do to feel settled before you play a gig?
Because I'm a gig, but stretching is important, you know?
And also just kind of going through every song in my head and maybe even looking at the music before I get out there.
Yeah, great.
If you hadn't been a musician, what do you think your career choice would have been?
Would you have ended up being an engineer?
I think probably more I got into business more like I would like maybe marketing.
I wish I had gotten a marketing degree.
I really love that aspect of business.
Yeah, great one.
Favorite tour you've ever done, if that's possible.
Well, certainly the Earth, Moon and Fire ones and the Bat Midleteral is just amazing too.
Great.
Favorite gig you've ever done.
favorite gig?
Whoa.
When I, I'll pick this one.
When I did Rhapsody in Blue, when my father was alive and he came and saw, got to see his dream of me playing on an orchestra.
That's amazing.
Yeah, love it.
Favorite city you've played?
Let's pick off time ahead Rio de Janeiro.
cool.
Name a song that you used to love, but you've now played it to death, so probably don't enjoy it as much anymore.
Wow, these are great questions.
You know, I like, um, if I didn't like it at the beginning, I still don't like it.
And if I, uh, if I had to play it every night, like I love all the earth when the fires are.
So even though I played on the entire, let's still level.
I've got to ask Moe, you love Wind Beneath My Wings?
I actually don't mind it, I think he cop's an unfair rat.
you know something that's a good choice right there but you know it was it's got it's I still have to play it all the time to my wife sings it you know and I still love it
because you know there's some little terms in it that are kind of cool and they're a little substance in court you can go go gospel with it
favourite music documentary or
I really love one about Bill Withers.
And I also love the one about Paul Williams.
Aw yeah.
Now one thing you'd like to see invented that would make your life as a keyboard player easier...
AI programming so I can just say make this error
That's right.
Hopefully that's coming.
I reckon give it another five years.
I reckon it'll be there.
And then your last but not least, your favourite non-musical activity or hobby.
What keeps you sane outside of music?
wow, well, I don't know if it keeps me sane.
I love golf.
I don't get to play it very often, but that's the golf and yoga.
Well, just using a golf analogy, I'd say it's fair to say, Mo, you've hit a lot of holes in one in your career so far.
And I think you've got a lot of holes in one still to go.
I can't thank you enough for spending the time.
It's been an absolute honor.
And we always say we've only scratched the surface and it's definitely the case with your good self as well.
So you can't thank you enough.
It's been an honor to be here David.
Thank you so much for having me.
And there we have it.
hope you enjoyed that as much as you could tell.
I enjoyed talking to Mo.
What a guy.
he's only, you know, in his early sixties, he's got a long way to go and, he's just about done it all already.
I'm, I'm obviously envious to some extent.
a huge thanks to Mo for, for his time is incredibly generous.
We had a lovely chat after the show as well.
Yeah.
Just, just amazing.
So much to learn there.
I'd like to thank you as always for listening and also our gold and silver sub.
Mr.
Dewey Evans from the lovely land of Wales.
And just as an aside, Mo was coming to us from Wales.
So Dewey, there you go.
There was someone just down the road from you.
The amazing Mike Wilcox from Midnight Mastering, one of our favorite supporters and also a great mixer and master and audio engineer extraordinaire.
Do check out midnightmastering.com.
Speaking of favorites, the lovely Tammy Katcher from Tammy's Musical Studio.
Thank you as always Tammy for your ongoing support.
And last but
definitely not least the wonderful team at themusicplayer.com forums, the keyboard corner in particular.
What a great place to hang and talk.
Everything keyboards, highly recommended.
So again, thank you all for listening.
We'll be back again in a week or two and until then keep on playing.