They just, they want to suck you dry and then move on to the next thing.
And they don't give a shit about you making a living.
There are artists I've worked for that are just broke and it's wrong.
It's wrong.
Madonna's people call me and go, you gotta come back.
She's gonna go out.
And I went, I'm not coming back.
I hung up the phone.
Hello and welcome to the keyboard Chronicles a podcast for keyboard players.
I'm your host David Holloway and I'm thrilled as always to be here with you.
I'm also thrilled to introduce Mr.
Mike McKnight.
We quite often say on the show about how diverse some of our guests careers are and it doesn't get any more stark than Mike's career.
I'm not even going to attempt to mention some of the people he's worked with because we cover that in some depth.
And there's also a link in the show notes to
Mike's website, which gives a much more extensive list again.
Mike's an amazing guy who's also worked sort of behind the microphone and in the magazine industry in regards to keyboards, as we'll discuss as well.
So he has fascinating insights and it was a thrill to speak with him, but I'll shut up for a minute and let you listen to Mike and I'll see you after the show.
Mike, sir, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
can't begin to tell you, you're someone we've been keen to have on since the get go.
So lovely to see you.
Thank you for having me.
I'm honored.
Thank you.
No, and look, in our introduction, which you won't have seen, Mike, I sort of mentioned the fact that it's going to be hard to encapsulate the breadth of your career, but we're
going to give it a red hot go and see what rabbit holes we go down.
So I thought we'll start
probably quite traditionally and just initially start with your musical upbringing.
So what your childhood into your early adulthood, what got you into music and got you passionate about music and technology that ended up in a career for you?
I'll try and keep it short.
My dad was in the Marine Corps and it was the sixties, early seventies and I picked up a guitar.
I used to stutter so bad I couldn't talk, but playing music was something that I could do.
and I could communicate and I didn't sound like an idiot.
And of course he said, young man, don't you even fucking think about playing in a band, which of course was like, yep, that's what I'm going to do, dad.
That's what I'm doing.
So, and he said, well, you can't read music.
And I went, I don't care.
You know, I'm, I hear it, I play it and you know, so, that was how I started.
Started off playing guitar and made the mistake of, one of my first bands when I was still in high school, sitting down at my dad's Lowry, Oregon or some horrible, know, church
organ.
And I could play light by fire and stuff and you guys went, hell no, you're not playing guitar because you can play keyboards.
And I said, yeah, but I don't want to play keyboards.
And they go, well, you suck on guitar, so you're playing keyboards.
And I went, okay, all right, so.
Then I started playing in bar bands and then I got drum machines and Commodore 64s and all that insanity and people would go, hey, can you do this?
And I would go, yeah, I can do that.
Then I go, how am gonna fucking do that?
And then you just figure it out and then before you know it, you're not playing anymore.
You're the technology guy under the stage getting yelled at by the pop star.
Now I'm just going to interrupt it there a minute, Mike, because you've mentioned something I hadn't planned on discussing, but it's very topical at the moment.
You mentioned the Commodore 64 and you may or not be aware that the Commodore brand is back and they're actually re-released the Commodore 64 with obviously all the latest USB
ports and it runs.
I think it's a Windows operating system.
So just because I'm interested and I sadly couldn't afford a Commodore 64, I was a big 20 guy.
Tell us about what you remember doing musically with that.
I do remember the Commodore 64 was considered ahead of its time at the time.
Well at the time it was 1983, 84.
MIDI just came out.
I got the sequential circuits cartridge as you plugged into the Commodore 64 and I had Oberheim drum machine that I synced up with FSK, you know, sync on it and then I had a
Prophet 5 and a DX7 with
both had MIDI on it.
depending on, and I also had a CP 70 B.
So I play all the piano parts, program the drum machine, and then had the Commodore playing all the, you know, the obvious sequence parts from back in the day, know, did it,
you know, that stupid shit.
And, and it was, you know, it cool.
It was, it was, it was magic.
And the, the drummer didn't really have a set.
We all heard the same hi-hat count in and we all just went for it and and if it went to shit, we just turned it off, you know and Yeah, so I mean I I used the Commodore 64 I used
dr.
T's KCS and I when I moved to California I got an Atari whoo eight meg of RAM instead of 64 K and Started using that on on tours
I did, it killed me.
did Madonna 1990, blonde ambition, big stadium tour with an Atari 1040 ST with eight, eight Meg e max two samplers.
Four would be playing and four would be loading from Cyquest 44 megabyte cartridges.
That dude, I mean, it was, it was a miracle.
This shit worked at all.
And I had no backups.
It was no backup.
mean, I had a
an Atari laptop that weighed probably a hundred pounds.
You know, was insanely heavy.
You could kill somebody with it.
but there was no way to switch between them.
just, you'd have to go, Hey, computer's dead.
And I plug in the other Atari and then plug in the MIDI cape, you know, the MIDI, cause that's all just had the built in MIDI on it.
It was, it was great.
Sure, I'm jumping way ahead of things here, but...
No, that's great.
And we definitely will be talking about, yeah, sort of the big tours, but no, that's still fascinating.
And thank you for the stuff about the Commodore 64.
The whole thing with the Commodore is just, what a nerd.
I'm sorry.
I'm sure there are other nerds watching this.
Shocking, I know.
But...
Definitely.
It's like we would play five sets a night.
So during the break between sets, I would be loading up the Oberheim from a cassette tape.
And the Commodore with a five and a quarter inch floppy, you know, so my break was spent doing that instead of chasing girls like the rest of the band.
So anyway, here we go.
yeah.
I'm hearing you again.
Yes, you're absolutely right.
So, I mean, it's, I still say you were somewhat unique, even as a teenager, having that level of technology in bands, because there are a lot of us that obviously didn't.
So I can see why you were snapped up.
What was your first?
What was the juncture at which you realized, look, I may actually end up doing this for a living.
Um, well, I, I did it for a living from the moment I left high school, you know, I, um, the night I graduated, I'm driving down the road to play at a club.
You know, everybody else is going out to graduation parties and shit.
And I'm just, I'm hauling ass down the freeway, ripping off my road, putting on my stage clothes and barely made it for the first song, you know?
So yeah, I.
I tried on, you know, I was married three times.
So, you know, every marriage, they always go, well, do you really have to do this for living?
And go, yeah, I do actually.
So I'm good at it.
I get paid a lot.
So shut up, you know?
Anyway, Yeah, no, absolutely.
And so at that stage you were playing.
cover gigs or original stuff or a bit of mixed...
No, it was all cover gigs.
God.
It was horrific show bands.
It's kind of like what they're doing now with the tribute bands is we would go up and we would do four or five tribute bands in one show and call it a show.
We would do a medley of Toto, we'd do a medley of Beach Boys, medley of Beatles.
Everybody go, my God, you sound exactly like them.
And I go, well, yeah, you know, that's what we're supposed to do.
That's what you paid for.
Right.
So, and yeah, so that was cover bands.
Never really did an original band.
We always would do a few originals in the bands I was in.
We'd write stuff and, but no, it's, it was just cover band making a living.
And then I moved to California in 85 and
played in a band called the Mod Beats.
And of course it was a 60s band.
So we did a couple sets dressed up psychedelic, sets dressed up like the Beatles.
It was a gig.
It's a gig.
Absolutely.
And so you're in California, Mike.
What led to you?
getting the big break as far as you know, you're now making somewhat of a full-time income was just really the grind of digging and merging into other stuff or?
The way I got my gig is there was a company back in the eighties called KeyClick and there was a programmer named Bo Tomlin and Steve Leonard and Bo would program all the DX7 stuff
for Yamaha and then he would get called
by David Foster and all the big studio guys and he'd go in and program these sounds and I just made myself a complete pest and he made me an intern, brought me on and in 1987 he
got a call from Earthman and Fire and said we need a keyboard tech, a programmer that can make the sounds and program stuff and both.
taking me under his wing, he taught me how to program synthesizers and I would, we would have a collection of sounds for the DX7 and he would make me sit in a room and duplicate
it on a, in Sonic ESQ1, which was, it was torture, it was wrong.
It was really wrong for me to have to, cause that thing, it would crash and all my work was gone.
Anything I'd saved was corrupted.
It was, but you'd have to do it again and you do it again.
And every time you have a,
a situation like that in your life, you just go, okay, all right, I gotta do it all again.
There's a reason for this.
There's a reason.
I'll do it better next time.
So you just suck it up, move on and do it.
Anyway, so he got the call and he said, I can't do it, but this guy might can.
So they threw me in there and I was playing at a bar band making three, $400 a week.
And Earth, Wind and Fire called and said, we're going to pay you 1600 a week and we'll pay 800 a week when you're not working.
I'm like, holy shit, and it's Earth, Wind and Fire.
get paid to be with these guys.
so I got the gig.
was just setting up the keyboards one day and I started playing and they said, hey, can you play some parts behind the curtain?
You know, because, you know, you're white, so you need to be behind the curtain.
We can't have that out here.
And I went, yeah, that's cool.
I'm here.
know?
So, and then they brought me to the studio and, just, I just made a real pest of myself and every chance I had, I would do a hundred times more than I was asked.
And, that, that, if I can impart any knowledge to anyone is work ethic is the one thing that you are never taught in school.
You're never taught.
You either have it or you don't.
So keep your mouth shut and do it a hundred times more than what you're paid for and you will succeed.
You will go a long way in this business and keep your mouth shut.
Don't complain.
Don't bitch.
Don't just do your job.
Absolutely.
That's it.
Yeah.
And it's funny, Mike, we got some questions from viewers later.
I think you've just answered one of them, which is wonderful.
So, mean, Earth, Wind and Fighter call them iconic as an understatement around the world.
So what were the learnings for you with that first big gig?
What did you learn pretty quickly that you hadn't thought of today?
Well, the thing about them at first is that they played everything so fast, you know, for the live show.
And I kept going, guys, guys, it really worked slower.
And by the nineties, they listened to me and they brought it back.
But anyway, not that I was the reason for it, but it was it.
People feel like you have to play things faster on the live show, makes it more exciting.
It doesn't.
And but the thing that.
God, again, it's it's back to if you're given an opportunity.
just jump in there and take it.
Maurice used to leave me in the studio.
He would go, okay, here's the song.
Do you think impress me?
Give me something in the morning that I haven't thought of.
And he'd come back in and I hadn't slept, but I was young.
I could do it.
And, he would let me do that.
He actually got, he actually let me do horn arrangements.
I don't even know about a horn arrangements, you know, but I would do like scratch horn parts that I heard.
And he was like, that's it.
That works.
So again, just if you're given any kind of an opportunity to be creative and if you don't give it your best shot because you're not getting paid to do it, you're a fucking asshole
and you're not gonna, you're not gonna succeed.
You have to take every opportunity, but then you also have to know when to shut the fuck up and to back off and go, okay, you're the boss, whatever you want.
That's what you get.
And you don't talk shit about anybody.
You just just do your thing, do your job.
But it was just the whole the whole work ethic.
Those guys rehearsed hours and hours and hours.
And we had to and you had to think ahead and you had to program and you had to stay ahead of them.
And but again, don't tell them what to do with them.
Think it's
their idea and you go, Hey, great idea.
you know, you raise a good point there, Mike, and this is another rabbit hole.
wasn't planning on exploring, but I mean, uh, in the last few days, I watched the rock and roll hall of fame inductions for including Kool and the Gang and foreigner.
And what stood out with the Kool and the Gang one, a bit like earth, wind and fire is just the pure scope of the music they covered and the discipline in the live performance.
Do you think there's something been lost?
Nowadays, there's certainly highly disciplined bands still out there.
But what do you think we've lost over the last 30 or 40 years as far as what they used to approach playing?
Well, the one thing we've lost as far as songwriting is a decent bridge.
Nobody writes bridges anymore.
It's it's.
That's that's the biggest thing I haven't heard.
You know, I'm not dissing Taylor Swift.
I just I've never listened to her music, but I don't know if she has bridges.
I.
I suspect she does.
I suspect any songwriter that's worth their, you know, that knows what they're doing, knows how to write a song.
And I just don't hear it.
I can't, maybe it's cause I'm an old fart has been some bitch.
don't know.
But I try to listen just for the production value.
And I try to listen to stay on top of things and to go, okay.
They over-compressed the fuck out of this here and they, yeah, they over, over tune this.
Okay, cool.
That's what they want to hear.
Great.
Cool.
I know how to do this, you know, because if I listen to Steeler Dan all the time, I'm never going to get a pop gig again.
anyway, you know what I mean?
It's like, I like what I like and.
Yeah, you know, but but she got to, know, so yeah, to me, that's the biggest thing.
Nobody writes great songs anymore.
They just don't.
mean, they're so I'm sorry.
That's that's not fair.
Not nobody, but it's just not.
And the biggest thing is, the biggest reason that's happening is because the record labels, and I'm sure this has been covered a billion times, don't support new art.
They just, they want to suck you dry and then move on to the next thing.
And they don't give a shit about you making a living or, I mean, there are artists I've worked for that are just broke and it's wrong.
It's wrong, you know, but.
I couldn't agree more.
No, think extremely valid points.
So, Mike, mean, as much as it kills, we'd even move past Earth, and fire.
will move on.
So, I mean, obviously you've worked with a whole range of artists.
And so I'm going to call out three more obvious ones.
But also after we go through those, I'm really interested to hear what you believe are the more interesting gigs you've had.
But I'll start with the three.
So I think your longest collaboration is with Mariah Carey.
So tell us how about that came about.
And how you managed the secret, what was the secret to the longevity of that successful working relationship?
The monitor engineer that was on Madonna in 1990, kind of Keith Carroll, heard that Mariah was looking for a playback guy and he recommended me.
And Keith and I weren't really buddies.
We didn't hang out.
Probably had a few disagreements about
monitors and stuff, but he was very, very nice.
And he put my name up and Walter Athanasiev called me and got the gig.
And then I just had an instant connection with her.
She's listen, Mariah's a diva, but as a human being, she's a sweetheart.
I love her and I would, and she's been there for me through
so many things.
I mean, yeah, if I hear all I want for Christmas again, I'm to blow my brains out.
But it's a gig, you know, it's a gig, you know, what are you going to do?
You know, I mean, we started I started working on that, like in August, you know, getting ready for the tour for the Christmas tour.
But that's what we do anyway.
So she she is a very strong person.
She knows what she wants.
And when she split from Tommy,
Even though I was Walter's guy, she kept me and I appreciated that.
And her and Walter had differences at times.
And that was sad because I think they made amazing music together.
mean, some of the stuff he wrote with her is just iconic and vanishing, you know, which is not a big hit.
So many wonderful, wonderful songs together.
I wish they could heal that.
anyway, so Walter brought me in, but then Walter and her, her head of falling out, but Mariah and I connected and she's been loyal to me for almost 30 years now.
Started with her in 96.
So, and she's had her ups and downs.
but she's always been really, really good to me.
And, I love, I love the woman.
do, I do.
There are times, you know,
When she has moments when she had this other manager named Stella, that was a nightmare where she would show up late hour and a half late to start the show.
And that's, that's hard, but that person is gone.
That Mariah is gone.
She's on time now.
She works hard.
She rehearses.
She knows where everybody's supposed to be, what everybody's doing.
She, you know, it's, it's a true pleasure working with her now.
Yeah.
So it sounds like it.
Mike, just for the sake of those, when you say you were doing playback for I'm pretty sure I understand what you mean by there.
And obviously the scope of Mariah's production is incredible.
So tell us over the years how your role evolved as far as playback and what you actually did at gigs.
playback these days, when I push play, I'm sending time code that goes to audio, video, lights.
and anybody else that needs it.
Sometimes set moves happen by time code and it's lot of it's automated.
A lot of it, they just watch the numbers and they go with it.
But it's, I'm kind of like an air traffic controller.
Except nobody gets hurt if, well, they could if just stage moves don't happen, But basically it's not just the extra audio parts.
It's not just
the click track and the obvious enhancements that we playback guys do these days that nobody's allowed to talk about in complete detail.
people want to see a show.
They want to go see a show.
When they go see Roger Waters, the video has to be precisely in sync with the music.
And the music has to move.
It can't be at one tempo.
It has to...
breathe like the original music did.
And that is some fucking sorcery right there, making that happen and having a band that can play with that.
And then if something goes wrong, having a band, cause the hardest thing I do as a playback guy is when it's like, let's say on, on money, one night Roger decided to put a
bar six four instead of, instead of a bar of seven four.
So he came in a beat early.
And everybody followed him as they should.
It's his fucking show.
Whatever he does, it's right.
So I had two bars to punch in the entire computer rig and all the visuals.
Because it's because money, if you listen to the record, it speeds up, it speeds up and it there's I literally have like seconds to fix it.
And then the rest of the show is running in.
You know, it just runs because it's.
Uh, with it, with the Pink Floyd show, Roger water show, once you hit play, it just runs for like 45 minutes.
Cause it's just, it's a whole story.
It's a, it's a, it's the wizard of Oz.
I'm just kidding.
It's not the wizard of Oz.
Nobody's nobody's believes that shit anyway.
So, but, so yeah, uh, playback is not just playing back the additional parts.
Playback now is a technical.
air traffic controller situation where you, every other department, sometimes even the people on stage, I'm changing programs for them.
I'm sending midi clock to their effects unit so everybody stays in sync.
And it's all for the people.
It's also, they get to see and hear what they, you know, they're paying $500 a ticket.
know, they want to see a spectacular show.
And so, and it's, all, it's all centralized, sadly around everybody works does all their shit.
But I, when I start my shit, all their shit starts.
So if my shit's fucked up, it's dead.
It's dead.
It's a quiet room.
You know, it's not good, but you know, so you just can't screw up.
You just keep it simple and you,
work with everybody, make sure everybody communicates.
So I hope that made sense.
And I know it absolutely makes sense.
And you've raised a really critical point.
This shows you how you engender discussion.
I hadn't thought about covering, but you mentioned about the spectacle of the shows.
And I'm definitely not talking specifically about Roger and Ryan.
We're going to talk about Madonna and you two and all sorts of stuff.
But these shows, as you said, are mega spectacular.
I know there is some criticism about the use of playback and vocal enhancements and I know there's some great YouTube channels out here that they're devoted to just picking apart
that stuff.
Taylor Swift, it appears in some songs, is miming because of the physicality of what she needs to do.
It's a bit of a, can't have your cake and eat it too.
You can't expect a mega spectacular show.
and a singer to deliver note perfect and the band to be able to deliver everything 100 % live on stage.
Yep, that's correct.
mean, how do I put this?
For example, even a band like The Who, I worked with them and they did some tours in 2022 with an orchestra.
But in each city, it was a different orchestra.
you know, some cities were better than others and some cities
It was like, yo, turn that shit off.
So it was coming from me, the pre-recorded orchestral thing to a click.
And that shit's moving all over the place.
I that's the, mean, cause we didn't, we didn't just sit it.
You can't do, won't get fooled again.
You know, just leave it at one tempo.
It just doesn't work, you know, and you can't have the Tommy stuff.
It moves, it breathes.
So
You know, again, people want to hear the orchestra.
They want to see the spectacle and they want to see their people dancing on stage too.
Everybody used to get mad at Madonna.
Madonna sang everything she possibly could.
The only thing she didn't sing, and this is not a secret.
I'm not giving anything away here.
She's dancing up there running around like a crazy person.
Do you want to hear her go, no, no, you want to, you want to hear what you want to hear.
and you want to see a spectacular show with all the visuals perfectly in sync.
Dude, it doesn't happen unless you play to a click and you have the enhancements.
Movies are not made in one shot.
They fix it.
And then they put it on the green screen and they do all this crazy shit.
I'm sorry.
You want to be entertained.
You want to see what you want to see.
You don't want to go, that would have been cool if they had just, you know.
played it right?
No, no, no.
Now, I mean, is it nobody I work for just lip syncs, you know, that's, that's, that's stupid.
There are times when you have vocal enhancement, you know, when it's needed, but anyway, yeah, I understand.
It's a hard topic and also
That's why I was very careful not to mention specific artists, because I know it varies across artists and there's lots of contention around it.
So totally get it.
But couldn't agree with your point more.
I think it's a really important point.
You mentioned Mariah in the true positive sense of the word is a diva.
And you'd already had six years of some involvement with Madonna prior to Mariah.
So I mean, I imagine she's another band leader, creative leader that knows what she wants.
So was that?
Um, what did you learn there?
And, um, sort of, worked with her between 1990 and 2004, which is an eternity in tech terms.
So how did the show evolve over that time?
Uh, listen, she was always, she was another one that, uh, there, there was moments where she would walk in and it was like, somebody's getting fucking fired today.
Cause she was in a bad mood and it didn't, it just, just, just.
And that's fine.
It's her show.
She can do her thing.
But, yeah, one story.
Last rehearsal, I think for Blonde Ambition, she walked in and she decided the guitar player was getting fired.
I don't want to say his name because he's a lovely guy, amazing guitar player, but he, we would do four run throughs a day.
And he, you know, his back hurt.
So he was sitting on a stool.
And she was dancing all four run throughs and that's like it.
He's fired.
So, just like that.
It's like, yeah, but he plays a lot of cool stuff that we're not going to, I don't care.
Fuck it.
He's gone.
And that was that, you know?
And so, but anyway, she, she also knows what she wants.
And she was the worst thing about her, which is the best thing is that I would, I would literally have a cut by my computer rig because I couldn't go home.
I couldn't sleep.
except a few hours on the cot and I'd get up and I'd get to work.
She was always the first one there and she was always the last one to leave.
anytime anybody works that hard, I will take immeasurable amounts of shit from them because they're willing to show up.
The ones that just bitch about it and don't show up can fuck right off.
She's got work ethic.
And I'm a big, I'm a big.
Just on that Mike, so you're saying for rehearsals and I'm not sure how long rehearsals were before each tour, but four run throughs a day.
That's incredible.
Well, that's, that's the production run throughs once, once you're there.
mean, she, back in the day with Madonna, the way it worked is we always did more shows in rehearsals than we ever did on the road.
You know, the sound checks were longer than the shows once we were on the road.
It's painful, know, and but when I was there, she was on time.
Now, once I left in 2005 ish, then she got the reputation for showing up hours and hours late.
So I'm I'm not going to say it's because I wasn't around, but, I'm going to start that one.
Yeah.
And technologically, I mean, it was, I imagine, again, doing playback, but also a fairly complex show.
mean, there's so much diversity in music.
Listen, 1990, like I said, I was doing it with eight eight meg samplers, eight meg samplers and four playing, four loading.
And if anything goes, and it's the 44 megs, like with cartridges, it's like I was making fire with two rocks with wet wood.
You know, it was like
the fuck am I doing?
And, but I did it.
And then 1993 with her, had a Mac two CI and I had a cup.
had three or four, a Kai 32 Meg samplers, know, it's like, Ooh, look at me go, you know, I'm rocking.
And it wasn't any of that side quest shit.
was, you know, just regular hard drives.
Man.
You know, it's a show.
Mike.
mean, the reality of that is, you, if not physically sweating, you're, literally working your ass off.
Oh, and I was playing, you know, I was playing keyboards underneath the stage too.
Well, it's while that shit's going on.
So it's like, I mean, the parts I was covering were parts I was covering.
Actually, I played since bass in 2001 on a couple of songs and I played solos on stuff.
And so my parts were integral, but I wasn't on the stage.
So there was a moment with Mariah in around 2000 or so where I was the MD and which all that all that really meant was that Mariah wanted to talk to me and I talked to the band.
She didn't want to talk to anybody in band.
So and I would tell the guys, listen, chill on the parts, play the songs like the record.
It's her fucking show.
Come on.
All right.
You know, so.
Yeah, that's fair.
And the other, so just briefly, let's explore the under stage thing, because I know, again, it's common, it's not unusual.
I know on your biography, you mentioned you did a bit of work for you to including four shows on the tour.
So I'm going back 20 years by self.
I know I used to correspond with Terry Lawless, who was the guy underneath the stage that did a lot of work for you to for I think about 30, 35 years.
So just tell us how you got involved on that side of things.
Well, what happened with with you too is they called me and they said, you know, would you like to do the gig?
And I said, yeah, hell yeah.
So then I called Madonna's people and it was 2000.
I said, so are we touring?
And they said, no, absolutely not.
No problem.
I said, great.
So I showed up and they asked me to play keyboards.
So I'm playing keyboards with you too.
was like, oh my God, I can't believe it.
I mean, I did the club dates.
I played on stage with them way in the back.
You know, I mean, I was
You know, I was not the fifth Beatle.
It was just way in the back.
then about six weeks in the rehearsal, Madonna's people call me and go, you got to come back.
She's going to go out.
And I went, I'm not coming back.
Hung up the phone.
They call me back.
You got to come back.
I said, man, you know, listen, all right, this is what I want.
And I asked for some astronomical amount of money.
And I said, and I want you to put it in my account.
wire it tomorrow in advance, and I want you to fly Terry Lawless out and you're going to pay for Terry for me to train him.
And it's not going to cost you to a cent to make this change.
you know, brought Terry in and I said, and I left my gear with Terry so he could, so it be a smooth transition.
their production manager, Jake Berry said, Mike, that's fine.
Everything would be great.
It's wonderful.
It's, it's, it's.
no hard feelings, it'd be wonderful.
So I'm in Miami doing the last show and Bono calls me back to the dressing room and I'm thinking, okay, cool.
He's gonna give me a big hug and he's gonna tell me thank you and he pulls me back there.
Remember when you were a kid and your dad would just look at you and say, I'm so disappointed in you young man and you just feel like you're gonna cry and you can't even
breathe?
He did that to me for about 20 minutes.
Yeah.
rushed and I walked out of the room and Larry Mowans, the drummer, walked past me and he looked at me like he was going to kick my ass.
And it was like, and, but, but what Bono said, said, you know, this, this is personal.
We're Irish.
Okay.
We're this is imagine your wife shows up and says, listen, I'm leaving you, but I taught this bird all the moves you like.
It'll be fine.
It'd be great.
You know, we, take this personally, Mike.
And I went,
my God.
You know, I hadn't thought of it.
And then I went to see a show in LA and I was, I was thinking I'd be able to go back and say, Hey guys, everything's working great.
We're all good.
We're all buddies and pals.
And I was told, no, you are not allowed backstage.
If they see you, will kick your ass.
And I'm going, wow.
You know, so yeah, I, I, if all my regrets in all my careers, all the stuff I've done,
I really, really regret.
I should have never left you two.
I should have stayed.
It was the wrong thing to do.
And I should not listen to Jake Berry and I should have done the right thing.
So, excuse my ignorance too, Mike, I'd assumed falsely that Terry had already been there and you, you'd come in to cover some spots, but you say you'd literally introduce you to
Terry.
yeah, yeah, I, I brought Terry on and he was at first they didn't like Terry and, but
Terry's great and he stepped into it and he's killing it now.
He's doing a great job.
I could be totally wrong.
This might be good.
So I thought he'd retired, but maybe he hasn't.
Well, I'm not sure if U2's retired.
Well, that's hard to know.
Yeah, true.
Yeah.
mean, they haven't done anything since this sphere, right?
Yeah.
No, thank you for that.
That's amazing insights.
Well, probably one last question on you two again, technologically they have some amazing keyboard parts.
They obviously do some playback and live keyboards underneath the stage.
Anything new you learned the way they worked versus previous gigs?
Well, the thing about you two is that they had like almost a couple of background vocals, but there wasn't a lot of vocal stuff going on.
There was mainly the click so that all the visuals would be right.
Again, that's the rub.
That's the rub.
If you want to see the visuals the way YouTube wants you to see the visuals, and it's really important with their show, it's got to be to a click.
There's got to be time code.
And it's a science project.
So that's just the way it is.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I thought the last one before I ask you to identify some of your favorite gigs, a guy that tends to
really sit back and not have a creative vision is Roger Waters.
So tell us what, tell us, tell us, I mean, you've worked with Roger, you know, three tours between 2010 and 2023.
He's obviously not backwards in coming forward.
Again, what you learned there in your approach.
And I was lucky enough to see the Us and Them show in Sydney where, so I assume you were there doing your job.
It was, it was absolutely stunning.
Amazing, amazing show.
So you tell us about what you learned throughout those years.
Well, the first thing I was told when I was hired to do the wall with Roger is his front of house guy, Tripp, Tripp, Caleb said he basically told me just don't ever lie to him.
This if Roger asks you how long it's going to take to fix something, tell him five minutes more than it's going to take, you know, and then get it done quicker.
But don't ever lie to him.
And just, don't bullshit them.
And again, it's, it's, it's such common sense, but somebody, see so many guys that are doing this out here that just step on it, step in it.
And, and, anyway, so Roger, he is the hardest working literally man in show business.
He's there every second of the day.
he, he's all over them with the lights.
He has a vision.
He knows exactly what he wants.
He makes me do these insane vocal cues in his ears telling him what part is coming next that I just, I can't even fathom how he, how he gets on with it, but it works.
then, now he's listened and he couldn't be an, he couldn't be a nicer man and he couldn't be a more lovely human being.
during COVID he took care of
most of the crew for most of that whole time.
And that's a lot of people I worked for didn't.
So that was that was unexpected and appreciated.
And he's he's a lovely man.
He he has some political things in his head that I don't always agree with.
But you know what?
We're not going there.
So.
And what I love about him too is that he will engage in those political debates respectively.
He'll do it forcefully, but he would do it respectively, which I admire.
Yeah.
Yep.
Absolutely.
No, I, he's, he's my favorite.
And if you were wondering, I mean, I, I love the man.
He's, no, I mean, he's, he's, he's spectacular, man, spectacular artist.
And he has a vision and he's hard.
He's hard, but.
He's fair.
So anybody's hard and fair.
I'm cool.
Absolutely.
It's when you're lazy and don't show up and then you scream at people.
And I won't mention any of those names, but you know, no, I have, I had run across and in your huge list of credits, Mike, I'm interested aside from Roger.
are some other tours that either for,
you know, creative reasons or technical reasons, whatever it is that you, you found enjoyable that may not be as well known or as obvious as the ones we've covered.
Well, you know, the one that I really enjoyed and it was just a, I was just getting the tour set up was, was Motley crew in 1995, the anywhere there's electricity tour.
This is when Vince Neil wasn't there.
The other guy was singing and it was great fucking songs.
It was amazing.
And the, uh,
producer's name, something rock.
Anyway, he would sit in there with an Alesis drum machine and he would just generate a click to Tommy and he'd speed the song up and it felt like he'd slow it back down.
And was very, very weird how he did it.
And I had to recreate all that because they wanted, he had like 18 guitar parts.
So they wanted some of the colors and flavors of that.
And then Tommy wanted me to do his usual crazy sounds for his drum solo.
That guy, that fucking guy, Tommy Lee is the best rock and roll drummer in the world ever.
He's to a quick, he was insanely good.
He was so good.
And he's just a funny guy.
Love the guy.
you know.
Motley Cruiser, yeah, it's not one I was expecting and it's a great one.
yeah, still.
Well, I think they're about to, they're giving it a go, which is amazing.
Yeah, you know, it's...
This is, and anywhere there's electricity, you know?
Anyway, so just, I mean, Tommy's a force of nature, man.
He's such a good drummer.
He certainly is, no, absolutely.
Mike, I've got a couple of viewer or listener questions.
to our Patreon supporters, we let them know that we're gonna be talking to you today.
some of them may be hard to answer as far as just trying to nail down a specific thing, but.
So the first one I've got is from Tammy in Canada who says, what is the most important piece of equipment to you nowadays?
If you're doing a tour or in recent tours, what can't you live without as far as a piece of equipment that you need?
boy.
Well, clearly Mac oriented.
So my computers, I can't do without them.
Motu audio interfaces.
I beat the hell out of them and they support me and they work great.
So that's the two major things, really.
I just got a new Mac Mini Pro 4 that I love, but it won't be going out on the road just yet.
I'm still the older M1, M2 Mac Minis.
How amazing are those M4 Minis?
just recently bought one.
They're just stunning.
Oh my God.
I'm in the process of rebuilding the studio because
It's a bit of a train wreck in here right now.
yeah, I haven't really had a chance to push it, but I finally have a computer that's just gonna sit here and I'll do my film scoring and sound editing and all that silly stuff and
not have to bring in laptops and reconfigure and you know, so.
But I have my laptops behind me.
So when I need to work on them for tours, can still, everything's all networked and.
That's a bit of a head scratcher, trying to figure out how to network everything and not have the world explode.
Yeah, that's right.
Gosh.
It's so hard.
It's so hard for me to get my head around it.
I mean, did MIDI from day one, but all this RTP shit and all this ethernet and all, God.
I'm so afraid I'm going to route the wrong thing somewhere and the core of the earth is going to just
You so.
I couldn't agree more, Mike.
And so you partially answered, but I'll cover it with.
So, uh, Dewey and Tammy both asked, basically, what is your pre tour regime?
So what, what do you, you need to do to get ready before you even turn up to a production rehearsal?
Well, I always try to get at least two weeks in, uh, they'll send me the multi tracks for the new record and I'll get things organized.
And they'll talk to me about edits and talk to me about, want to do kind of a remix of this song and we want to do a medley of these three or four together.
So, start thinking about how, how you plan on doing that.
talking to the drummers, you know, what kind of click tracks do you want to hear?
What kind of cues are you comfortable with?
how many outputs do we need for the, for an house guy to be comfortable?
How many outputs?
you know, because then there's a whole series of outputs that the monitor guy has that the front of the house guy doesn't have like all the clicks and cues and what does Mariah want
to hear?
What does she need me to say in the ears?
I'm, God I'm not doing it a lot, but I've been learning how to do the teleprompter stuff, very basic stuff.
know, I don't want to, I don't, that's.
not something I'm going to take on.
That's a valid point.
And also on the teleprompter thing, it's a bit like the spectacle show.
Some people are critical of teleprompters, but I challenge anyone over the age of about 45.
If you've got, you know, a catalog as big as artists like Springsteen and Roger Waters and David.
Yeah, it's, there's no way you're remembering all those lyrics.
You mentioned, Mike, about your film composition.
was keen to cover that as well.
So
I know you have some great writing and sound design credits.
How did that develop over your career?
So when did you first start getting into that?
Well, like on these tours, the dancers typically have other careers because it's such a short career when you're a dancer.
And one of the dancers on Madonna is a really good actress, Don Noel.
And she asked me to do her film.
And then
Her boyfriend, Roberto Sanchez, who's a big actor on Apple TV, he was the second guy Dexter Youngman killed in the last, anyway, so I do films for him.
you know, just nothing, You have to start somewhere.
No one's gonna just throw you a major film score out of the block.
You have to learn how to do it and you have to accept the fact that I'm not gonna get paid anything for this.
But you get the joy of creating it and you get the joy of working with somebody and their vision, putting music to it, fixing the lyrics, I'm sorry, fixing the dialogue, which is
that's another science project altogether these days to do it right.
mean, you can just tell it to AI it and it, but it doesn't sound right.
You know, this, this AI thing.
I'm sorry.
Every time AI tries to finish my thought,
It's like, yo, no, no, sorry.
It's not there.
no, anyway.
That's great.
just now that's good to know.
I mean, that can only continue to grow that area that you're working in as far as sound design and film composition.
Just also just mentioning for our listeners sake.
And I briefly alluded to this introduction as much as we've covered some depth there with Mike.
mean, I'm just going to rattle off some.
to that we haven't even talked about, which is everyone from Don Henley, Lady Gaga, Selena Gomez, Fleetwood Mac, Paula Rabbit, George Michael, Shakira.
Springsteen.
I've got to ask about Springsteen because I'm a Rabbit fan, What would I think you helped with some setups there?
And I know I spoke to David Rosensoll many years ago where he also helped, think, before your.
Well, actually, I brought I brought David in on that.
there you go.
OK.
I was it was it was an album called The Rising.
And we were doing a tour and then we're trying to modernize things a little bit.
And the keyboard players were not happy about it.
They did not want to do it.
So there was a few samples that they had from the record, an Arabic guy singing some stuff that the piano player's name is escaping me.
Roy Beaton.
Roy, Roy.
Yep.
Roy and Danny were going to have to play and Danny had nothing to do with Eve.
He didn't want, you know, anything.
That's fine.
But Roy was cool with it, but he had a JL Cooper Synapse and he only got 99 presets for MIDI on it.
And he was at 99.
So we were trying to figure out what are we going to do?
And it's like, you know what?
I got, I'm going to put David Rosenthal on that.
And I brought David in grossly overqualified gross.
mean, it was like, I looked at them.
So, you know, this guy could play both your gigs in circles around you.
But I didn't, kept my mouth shut.
So Bruce would show up.
If he said, rehearsal start at 11 a.m., he was there at 10.45, and I was ready for all those samples to have to go down a half step or a whole step or a step and a half, he
walked in and said, you know what?
I'm gonna add up a whole step.
And I'm going, wow, what?
Because yeah, I need the energy, I need the.
And I'm like, well, I'm not ready for that.
Give me a second.
know, I get a race.
Like, wow, I didn't expect that.
But he just, he's another guy that the work ethic is insane.
And, and I thought, okay, these guys are going to have to play to a quick.
They're going to have to, and they just refused.
Nope.
We're not playing to a quick.
And I'm like, all right, well, I'm going to shut up and they'll figure it out.
I'm getting paid whatever they want.
And it worked.
But no, he's, you know, he was great.
and the reason I got that gig was George Travis.
The tour manager was Madonna's tour manager.
So see, that's, that's how all this connects.
You know, you, I haven't sent out a resume hardly ever.
If somebody asked for a resume, it's like, dude, come on, really?
You know, so it's all word of mouth.
That's right.
And you didn't actually, did you go out on that tour, Mike?
The Rising Tour was just really the setup for the tour.
I just set it up.
did the first show in Asbury Park.
They did some, you know, city hall thing.
was, it was cool.
It was, was really cool.
Yeah.
No, just the only reason I ask is I saw that tour and there was the infamous incident in Sydney where the electricity went out.
the whole show, yeah.
So, no, so I just wanted to interest in whether you were there or not.
So.
No, thank you for that.
So yeah, just that was sort of a bit of a side trip just for our listeners just how diverse Mike's career has been.
But Mike, I wanted to jump in to also you did some work for Keyboard Magazine.
Now all of our listeners and viewers, I don't think there's anyone out there that is not aware of how iconic that magazine was for all of us.
So it goes without saying why you got the gig there based on your experience, but how did you find that?
Did you find that a bit of a fun thing to do or a bit of a chore after a while?
no, I, I, I enjoyed it.
It's just that, because anytime somebody would ask me a question nine times out of 10, I had no idea how to do it.
So I had to learn.
it's like, ask Mike.
And I was like, and I'm an, don't know, but I'll figure it out and I'll get back to you.
And it was good.
It was good for me.
So, and, no, it was, you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm an eighties guy.
So.
Keyboard magazine was hot shit in the 80s and it was so...
mean, magazines were amazing.
And when they asked me to write, I was like, yeah, hell yeah.
Are you kidding?
That's a bigger...
I never got paid a cent for writing for them.
I didn't care.
I just, I was happy to do it.
And sometimes you gotta do, well, I don't know, maybe not anymore.
in this world, but in the eighties world, anything that you did that got you out there and people heard your name was a good thing.
And you didn't always get paid for it.
And that was fun.
So, No, absolutely.
No, thank you.
And also, as you've mentioned, you're refurbishing your studio, but it looks amazing to me from here, but you do run your own studio.
So that's obviously an ongoing concern and you just pick up work here and there between tours and so on.
Well, it's, I'm pretty much, I'm at the stage of my life where I just do what I want to do when I want to do it.
And I'm not really looking to find the next Taylor Swift or produce anybody or anything that stuff.
I just, I just like all these toys.
got an OBX eight and a Prophet 10 and a, you know, a bunch of stage four back there, Phantom seven, the X and
stage three and a couple, anyway, just way too much shit, you know, just because I can, you know, I enjoy it.
It makes me feel good.
But no, I'm not looking to, and I, I might play in a bar band.
I don't know, you know, it can be fun, but God damn, it's a lot of work to learn all these songs and to, I respect the guys that are there doing it and that are actually playing the
right changes and doing their best with it and getting paid.
Maybe $150 a night.
God, it's depressing.
It's but it's fun.
So we'll see.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I keep thinking I'm going to retire.
I'm going to just play.
But as long as Roger is still out there, he's in his eighties and Mariah is still going.
She's in her fifties.
So I don't know.
Maybe when they give up, I'll give up.
I don't know.
I love the idea of you in a bar band, Mike.
I'm a bar band guy and you're right.
It's a lot of hard work for not a lot of money, but it is good fun.
You're absolutely right.
Oh yeah.
mean, I just, just learning all the parts, programming everything, you know, making it happen.
It's, it's, and then, oh, the singer comes and goes, Oh, I can't do it.
And I keep you at it.
You know, okay.
It's, it's, it's a whole different skillset than it was back when I was playing in bar bands in the eighties.
It was, cause that's, that's all we did.
You know, we just touring and learning.
three or four songs a week, know, tops.
anyway, it's just someone handing you a 60 song set list.
It's like, whoa.
Oh, and by the way, you're the keyboard player, so you gotta play the horn section on this song too.
you gotta, oh, okay.
All right.
Yep, I'm hearing you.
I think you've covered this beautifully, Mike, but just in case you want to add anything to it.
So I was going to ask you what advice you'd give.
aspiring musicians who are just starting out and trying to establish themselves in the industry.
I think you've covered that beautifully, but unless there's anything you wanted to add.
No, I just, again, I just, whatever you do, give it your best.
It's really that simple.
You know, when you learn the song, even if you're in a bar band, nail the sound, nail the part.
and you know, just be a fun guy to be around, you know, and don't, don't be a whiner.
don't be a wanker.
You whatever they call it in Australia.
don't know.
But, you know, Absolutely.
Thank you.
and given the complexity of the role you do on tour, I can't imagine there hasn't been a time where you've had a massive train wreck.
we always ask our guests for an onstage train wreck that you can only look back and laugh about now or otherwise.
you know, the, hmm.
Maybe I just erased them from my memory.
the, uh, no, mean, most of the train wrecks are ones that I, the band comes in early and I catch it or, you know, something.
But I, yeah, there was, there was one on national TV where the manager asked me to make an edit 30 seconds before airtime.
And I went.
I really don't want to do this.
And he goes, well, you need to do it.
And I did it.
And I was thought I was shortening just the intro music and everything else would stay in sync.
And it turned out that I also shortened where the background vocals were coming in.
So they came in at some awful place that made no sense.
So I had to turn them off.
Yeah.
And it's just, it's one of those things.
Have you ever been in a car accident?
You're driving and you're sliding and you go in, this isn't real.
It's not happening.
And it, yeah, it did, you know, but, one I can tell you about, MTV awards in Ireland.
there was no band.
It was just me and it was Mary J.
Blige, Mariah, a couple other rappers on stage.
And I got my SCSI hard drive on top of my computer rack.
and I'm right by the stairs and I see this stagehand coming down with this thing and I go, he's gonna hit my hard drive.
He's gonna hit it and he's gonna knock it off and he hit it.
Hard drive flew and the song stopped exactly eight bars early.
Now Mary J.
Blige was cool with it.
The other singers were cool.
Mariah was going, what, what, what?
But it was okay.
was like, live eight.
2005, sorry, you asked me.
This is other.
I was, played with Madonna and then there was an act and then Mariah was coming on and I told the guys do not tear my down from this riser.
Okay.
I'm going to be back with Mariah and you know, like two acts.
I, I'm Mariah thing went great.
I'm in the back room and I'm going, yeah, that was fun.
Rock and roll.
Arr.
You know, and my tech comes back and
He's got these cables in his hand and he goes, your shit's all torn apart, man.
It's, don't know where it is.
And I'm going, what the, there's 300,000 people in Hyde park.
You know what I mean?
It's like, what the fuck?
So yeah, that, but we, found it and we got through it, but it was, uh, whoo.
Yeah.
That's hard.
Wow.
That was hard.
I, I never went from being so happy to completely soaking wet with sweat.
freaking out trying to make it happen.
yeah, that's a rollercoaster.
But it worked.
It worked.
Yeah.
So, you know, mean, shit's going to happen, but yeah, no, absolutely.
And we also asked all of our guests, Mike, to tag a keyboard player.
Now you've obviously both you play yourself and have worked with a lot of other keyboard players.
You someone who you'd like to find out more about their life story that you probably don't know already.
Greg Philanjase.
Yeah.
He's, he's a constant wish.
My God.
That, that the only person I ever got nervous when he was, you know, someone would come, staying, came to see the show.
It's like, yeah, so what, whatever.
Hey man, throwing games in the audience.
Oh no.
You know, he, he came back and he critiqued the fuck out of me.
And he was right.
He was right.
I was playing devotion.
He said, we got to man chill.
You, you just relax.
yeah.
But he's a guy that is so effortless and so good.
Yeah, I would definitely listen to anything he had to say about anything because he's the shit.
Our ongoing watchers and viewers will be aware that we would kill to talk with Greg and it's not that he's said no, we just don't know how to get in touch with him.
our literally our last guest Mike was Rob Gentry who just played with David Gilmore and Greg.
And was also calling out just how amazing he was.
So yeah, no, I'm hearing you with Greg.
Amazing guy.
If Rob can't hook you up with Greg, don't know who can because Greg was on.
Yeah, I might ask Rob.
I've been too polite so far.
Yeah, you should.
Yeah.
And then the dreaded Desert Island Discs question, Mike.
So if you had to list five albums, what would they be?
Well, see, this is where I'm going to show my age.
Can't Buy a Thrill, Steely Dan, first album.
That one just took me out.
And of all the people I've worked with, Ray of Light, Madonna was a spectacular record.
It's really good.
William Orbit, you should talk to him.
He's bad motherfucker.
He's amazing.
Beyond that, new Peter Gabriel record is insanely good.
Have you heard it?
No, I haven't listened to it before.
This is the I, it's IO, isn't it?
Yeah.
Oh my God.
It is so good.
Now, maybe it's because it sounds like so and his other stuff to me, because when he, went a different direction and it wasn't, you know, he did a nice version of, um, heroes, uh,
or casserole, but, but this, this new album is great.
Um, uh, got Amanda Marshall.
Have you heard of her?
No.
Woman from Canada.
Amazing, amazing singer.
And just, I think she's one of those people that she would have been huge, but she got a record deal and then wanted to renegotiate and they buried her.
So it's just sad.
else?
There's four, Mike, you've done four pretty easily.
Yeah, I'm trying to think.
Again, well then Asia, Steely Dan, I'm sorry.
you know, look, I just, I like the way Donald Fagan thinks harmonically.
It's, and I know that it's, it's funny to have Madonna on the same thing because Madonna would go out of her way to say, I fucking hate Steely Dan.
She hated them.
I never heard her say she hated anything, but she really fucking hated Steely Dan.
It was just, it was the worst thing ever for her.
Yeah.
Understand.
No, that's great.
Thanks, Mike.
They've got five brilliant picks.
And then we usually finish off with our quick fire 10, so 10 short and sharp questions with hopefully 10 short and sharp answers.
OK.
And the first one being the first album you recall hearing.
God.
Well, this is going to age me.
But first, I didn't hear the entire album.
The first song I remember hearing was a song by a band called The Circle called Red Rubber Ball.
Okay.
don't know why, but that sticks in there.
No, great.
Before each gig, what is a pre-gig ritual to say you know that you set for the night?
Just, well, this is boring.
I'll try and keep it short.
I actually make a point of shutting down my computers and restarting, rebooting, making absolutely certain, looking at every song, just making sure I didn't miss something.
making sure I didn't leave something in solo mode.
So when I start the song, only the quick plays, nothing else, but you know, cause it, it happens when you get in the soundcheck and you're going fast and then you save and then
you forget anyway.
yeah, absolutely.
Always, always, always triple track.
Yeah.
No, great point.
If you hadn't been a musician and, you know, taken on the career you have, what do you think your career choice would have been?
I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer.
I suck at math, so that doesn't work.
Favorite tour you've ever done, if that's at all possible?
Roger Waters' The Wall.
That was three years of just, it started in little tiny arenas, and by the time we were done, we were playing stadiums.
And it just never got old.
favorite gig you've ever done if that's possible so as far as an individual show?
Well the one that went horribly to shit the Live 8 2005 yeah that was that was yeah that was great yeah but any any gig I did when I was playing with Earth, Wind and Fire from 94
to 97 any of those were amazing it was so cool to be with those guys.
Absolutely.
favourite city you've ever played if that stands out for you?
Well, God, I do love Australia.
I mean, I would probably live there if I could, you know.
So, yeah, I think Sydney.
sponsor you, Mike.
Yeah, we'll sponsor you, Mike.
Okay.
Name a song, you sort of alluded to this earlier, but I'll ask it anyway, name a song that you used to love, but you've played it to death.
Wow.
Well, can I change that actually Mike to a non Christmas song that you use to love?
I, I can't think of any.
I'm sorry.
I, I, nothing jumps in my head.
No, favorite music documentary or movie.
well spinal tap.
course.
I was, I was, I was actually talked to, they, they were in rehearsals and you know, we need a keyboard player that's like over the top and saying,
Kind of as it, my God, spinal tap with playback.
That would be cool.
You know, they're, they're playing the military club and they got all the extra shit with the commuters.
No, I can't do that.
So, but anyway, it was talked about for a hot second, but.
there is a sequel coming out.
So I'd be interesting with the, having incorporated some of that into it wouldn't surprise me.
No, one thing that you'd like to see invented that it'd make your life as a keyboard player easier.
Wow.
Blank.
I got a blank there.
I'm sorry.
No, I mean, I mean, there's so much stuff that I need to learn that I have already.
That's the problem.
you know what?
I'll tell you one thing.
Every time I watch The Matrix, I wish this would happen.
I go on YouTube and I watch all this shit.
I'm learning all these things that I listen.
If I could just plug it in the back of my and go, I know Kung Fu, you know, I know how to play Giant Steps, you know, anything like that.
That would be that would be amazing.
That's what I That's obviously the best one we've ever had.
I think I love that idea.
That's brilliant.
And then what do you do to keep sane outside of music, Mike?
So what's your favorite non-musical activity slash hobby?
Oh, I got two beautiful little dogs that just are the best things ever.
And they're probably crying outside the door right now trying to get in.
Yeah.
we better let you get to them.
I mean, never has the case of not scratching the surface been more
truthful in, in spending this time with you.
It's just been amazing.
I'd to follow up in the future and hopefully we do see you down under again, either with Roger or someone else.
We are doing Mariah in, in Australia.
would love to catch up this year.
I'll, I'll get you in the show and, love to buy you a beer.
I would love that.
Yeah.
Let's it.
Thank you enough, Mike.
It's been absolutely amazing.
Thank you, David.
And there we have it.
As I warned you, that was one broad ranging conversation.
It's so hard to scratch even much beyond the surface with someone as extensively experienced as Mike, but it was a thrill getting the time with Mike that we did.
And I can't thank him enough for taking that time with us.
The other people I need to thank for taking their time is obviously you, our extremely valued listeners and watchers.
We couldn't do it without you.
And also to our gold and silver supporters.
So in no particular order, Mike from midnightmastering.com, I do recommend checking a couple of episodes back where we actually had Mike on the show alongside Steve Gregory to
talk about the world's first virtual band.
Definitely worth a check out, but Mike basically does brilliant mastering and mixing and I can't recommend him highly enough.
Dave and the team from the musicplay.com forums, one of the best places on the internet to talk keyboards, highly recommend.
You do check that out as well.
Tammy Katcher from Tammy's Musical Stew, a long time supporter that we value greatly.
Thank you, Tammy.
And last but not least, I want to call out Elk Electronic.
We've not mentioned them in a while, but it's time to mention them again.
So Elk do a brilliant job of repairing SINs, but also provide a lot of interesting long online resources.
So that's E-L-K-E-L-E-K.
Anyway, it's electronic with a K.
If you Google Elkolectronic, it'll be there.
So yeah, thanks to Ed and the team at Elkolectronic as well for their ongoing support.
And last but definitely not least, Mr.
Dewey Evans, who you got to see on the end of year wrap.
And we look forward to speaking with Dewey again in the future, who's also one of our very valued supporters.
So again, thank you for listening.
We love hearing from you.
Do reach out via email, Facebook.
We're on Instagram, we're on Blue Sky, we're on anything you can think of.
yeah, feel free to reach out anytime.
And in the meantime, keep on playing.