WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:03.340 Well, hey, all you wiretappers, welcome back to the studio of Gangland Wire. 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:09.040 I have an old show that I did like seven or eight years ago, 00:00:09.220 --> 00:00:12.880 a long time ago, and I haven't retouched this guy since. 00:00:13.120 --> 00:00:17.660 So I went back in and looked at it and did some new stuff and re-edited it. 00:00:17.900 --> 00:00:25.280 So I have the story of Mad Sam DeStefano, who was a Chicago outfit loan shark collector. 00:00:26.660 --> 00:00:30.060 I'll tell you what, wait till you hear this guy's story. A lot of you may have 00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:33.940 heard of him. He's pretty well known, been pretty well reported on. 00:00:34.100 --> 00:00:38.940 But this guy is, he is what we call affectionately a piece of work. 00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:46.980 So settle back and listen to the story of the life of the most brutal loan shark 00:00:46.980 --> 00:00:53.460 collector and loan shark that probably ever was that I know about. 00:00:53.680 --> 00:00:58.560 He liked to torture. This guy is Sam, Mad Sam DeStefano. 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.480 And I'd heard of Mad Sam. Of course, all you guys up in Chicago know about Mad Sam. 00:01:03.700 --> 00:01:09.360 He was kind of the guy that taught Tony Spilotro all the tricks of the trade on being a gangster. 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:14.280 He was one of the first guys that Spilotro was given, was sent to his crew or 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:15.720 Spilotro joined his crew. 00:01:16.240 --> 00:01:20.900 But Mad Sam, we'll tell you a little bit about the history of Mad Sam. Mad Sam was born in 1909. 00:01:21.870 --> 00:01:26.970 And he would go on to become a big-time loan shark and a political fixer and 00:01:26.970 --> 00:01:29.150 a sociopathic killer for the Chicago outfit. 00:01:29.410 --> 00:01:34.650 I heard of, there's a guy a lot of you all know, a Chicago, former Chicago-based 00:01:34.650 --> 00:01:37.070 FBI agent named William F. 00:01:37.190 --> 00:01:41.690 Romer Jr. He wrote several books on the mob that a lot of people cuss and discuss 00:01:41.690 --> 00:01:46.110 and argue about whether he was telling the truth or making stuff up. 00:01:46.110 --> 00:01:52.170 But regardless what you think of Bill Romer, he did know Chicago Outfit better than anybody. 00:01:52.410 --> 00:01:57.950 And he considered DeStefano to be the worst torture murderer in the history of the United States. 00:01:58.150 --> 00:02:03.550 He said that this guy was a mentally unstable and sadistic person that was used 00:02:03.550 --> 00:02:06.590 by the Outfit as an enforcer and a juice loan collector. 00:02:07.070 --> 00:02:09.010 Sam, Mad Sam, was born in Streeter, Illinois. 00:02:09.790 --> 00:02:15.730 His father was a laborer named Sam DeStefano Sr. His mother's named Rosalie. 00:02:16.110 --> 00:02:21.170 Both of them had been born in Italy and immigrated to the United States in 1903. 00:02:21.790 --> 00:02:27.050 So Mad Sam was a citizen. He was born here in 1909. 00:02:27.230 --> 00:02:32.590 His dad was kind of an up-and-comer in a way. He started out as a laborer and 00:02:32.590 --> 00:02:35.350 worked in a coal mine downstate in Heron, Illinois. 00:02:35.650 --> 00:02:40.670 They had some labor-related turmoil, but I looked it up. It was the Heron Massacre. 00:02:40.930 --> 00:02:44.290 A bunch of union members killed a whole bunch of strikebreakers down there, 00:02:44.290 --> 00:02:49.070 And then the company brought in some thugs to beat up the union people. 00:02:49.130 --> 00:02:53.650 So he just got out and went up to Chicago and moved into Little Italy on the 00:02:53.650 --> 00:02:57.650 west side of the loop down there and around Taylor and Western, I think. 00:02:57.910 --> 00:03:02.110 Looking at Mad Sam, one of the earlier reports about his criminal activity was 00:03:02.110 --> 00:03:06.010 in 1926. He would have been about 17 or 18 years old. 00:03:06.150 --> 00:03:09.970 He was arrested and turned over to the Niles Police Department, 00:03:10.150 --> 00:03:14.190 which is a suburb of Chicago, as being a fugitive for breaking out of jail. 00:03:15.190 --> 00:03:18.370 He joined a gang. It was called the 42 Gang. 00:03:19.610 --> 00:03:24.470 1927, July the 1st, several hundred of these West Side gang members showed up 00:03:24.470 --> 00:03:29.150 threatening violence against a police sergeant for arresting DeStefano and for 00:03:29.150 --> 00:03:32.350 shooting DeStefano's associate, Harry Casgrove. 00:03:32.450 --> 00:03:37.450 So he had established a reputation by the time before he was 20 years old, 00:03:37.570 --> 00:03:44.630 really, and had people following him and looking up to him. Started out with a charge of rape. 00:03:45.370 --> 00:03:50.930 Best I can gather, DeStefano and another gang member, Ralph Orlando, had lured. 00:03:51.750 --> 00:03:57.330 Actually, they had waited outside a movie theater and found a 17-year-old girl walking home alone. 00:03:57.490 --> 00:04:02.150 And they forced her into an automobile and drove her to a garage where she was 00:04:02.150 --> 00:04:04.970 sexually assaulted by several other gang members. 00:04:05.970 --> 00:04:11.610 Orlando and DeStefano were found guilty of this crime. Now, he got a lighter 00:04:11.610 --> 00:04:15.170 sentence because the police, for somehow the police were called. 00:04:15.390 --> 00:04:19.530 I don't know how, some neighbor must have heard the girl screaming or something. 00:04:19.610 --> 00:04:24.470 Police were called, and they burst in, and they arrived before DeStefano had 00:04:24.470 --> 00:04:28.070 the opportunity to rape the girl. So he had a much lighter sentence. He only did three years. 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:33.500 He was a member of the 42 gang sometime during this time, which was the junior 00:04:33.500 --> 00:04:36.160 varsity, if you will, for the Chicago outfit. 00:04:36.400 --> 00:04:41.300 Many young guys in Chicago graduated from the 42 gang to join the outfit. 00:04:41.500 --> 00:04:46.180 And one of the most famous ones was Salvatore Sam Giancana, or Momo. They call him Momo. 00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:54.120 The press coverage that the 42ers had gotten for all their different crimes 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.620 had captured the attention of the outfit. 00:04:56.620 --> 00:05:02.520 And particularly Al Capone, they were used to do burglaries and fence their 00:05:02.520 --> 00:05:04.720 property for them and help in the bootlegging. 00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:10.340 They need a lot of people to drive trucks and guard truckloads of beer and help 00:05:10.340 --> 00:05:15.140 establish enforcement around speakeasies and set up speakeasies and gambling games. 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:19.120 They'd hire them for runners and truck drivers. They were a little bit out of 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:22.800 control, all these young guys, but they did have their uses. 00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:26.800 It was probably one of the more highly skilled of these young guys. 00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:31.160 And he had a reputation as a, his early reputation was a skilled wheel man. 00:05:31.280 --> 00:05:32.860 And I don't mean a motorcycle officer. 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.700 If you remember, we had that whole conversation about whether you're the getaway 00:05:36.700 --> 00:05:39.860 driver or you're a motorcycle officer for the Kansas City Police Department. 00:05:40.100 --> 00:05:44.180 So he was not a motorcycle officer. He was a getaway driver and he was known 00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:45.540 to be calm under pressure. 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:50.660 He quickly became a protege of Tony, Joe, Anthony, Joe "Batters"Accardo and Paul 00:05:50.660 --> 00:05:55.300 the Waiter Rica, who were some of the early bosses after Al Capone and Frank Nitti. 00:05:55.540 --> 00:06:00.140 Giancana would bring a number of his 42 gang members, like Mad Sam, 00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:06.340 into the outfit, and he would go on to become actually the boss of the outfit by 1957. 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:10.280 He will later kind of have to abdicate and travel to Mexico, 00:06:10.580 --> 00:06:13.760 and he will eventually be killed, but that's a whole other story. 00:06:13.940 --> 00:06:18.420 He's the one that brought Mad Sam DeStefano from the 42ers into the big time. 00:06:18.980 --> 00:06:22.040 DeStefano himself soon became involved in bootlegging and gambling. 00:06:22.320 --> 00:06:26.440 In 1932, he was wounded by a policeman during a grocery store robbery. 00:06:27.390 --> 00:06:33.130 Later that year in August, after that, DeStefano appeared at a hospital in Chicago's 00:06:33.130 --> 00:06:35.650 west side with bullet wounds, which refused to explain. 00:06:35.830 --> 00:06:40.170 So he was getting around, but this was, he was in his early 20s in 1933. 00:06:40.170 --> 00:06:46.930 He must have been part of a robbery crew because in 1933, DeStefano was convicted 00:06:46.930 --> 00:06:51.890 of a bank robbery up in New Lisbon, Wisconsin, and sentenced to 40 years in the penitentiary. 00:06:52.250 --> 00:06:58.010 Well, the political fix must have got put in because within eight years, 00:06:58.230 --> 00:07:02.990 his sentence is commuted by the governor, and he's released in December of 1944. 00:07:04.270 --> 00:07:10.650 DeStefano returned to prison in June 1947 for possessing counterfeit sugar ration stamps. 00:07:10.830 --> 00:07:15.490 During the war, they had to ration tires, gasoline, and sugar in particular, 00:07:15.690 --> 00:07:17.730 and I think meat was rationed too. 00:07:17.850 --> 00:07:23.190 What these guys would do, DeStefano was working, And when he got out of the 00:07:23.190 --> 00:07:27.470 joint in 1944 at the end of the war, he was working in a place where they did printing. 00:07:27.690 --> 00:07:32.250 And we had access to printing facilities and started printing up counterfeit 00:07:32.250 --> 00:07:34.130 sugar ration stamps and selling to people. 00:07:34.350 --> 00:07:40.050 He got popped for that, went back to the penitentiary. And this was a good penitentiary term for him. 00:07:40.210 --> 00:07:44.450 He was sent down to Leavenworth, and there he met outfit members Paul, 00:07:44.650 --> 00:07:46.650 the waiter Rica, and Louis Campagna. 00:07:46.650 --> 00:07:51.490 When he came out in 1947, he must have got their attention, and he probably 00:07:51.490 --> 00:07:56.630 made sure everybody was safe, and he was kind of a bad actor, so he was a tough guy. 00:07:56.830 --> 00:08:00.790 After he was released, he immediately got a civil service job with the city 00:08:00.790 --> 00:08:06.050 of Chicago in the garbage dumping foreman. 00:08:06.050 --> 00:08:10.850 And by 1952, the fix for him getting that job must not have stuck or he probably 00:08:10.850 --> 00:08:15.070 created a lot of trouble or wasn't showing up or something because city officials 00:08:15.070 --> 00:08:18.910 discovered that he had omitted his criminal record from his application. 00:08:19.190 --> 00:08:22.710 They didn't prosecute him, but I think he lost his job at that time. 00:08:23.390 --> 00:08:28.450 During the 1950s, he went on to be a full time outfit loan shark operator. 00:08:28.850 --> 00:08:33.030 He started out using stolen money from his days as a bank robber and loaning 00:08:33.030 --> 00:08:37.230 out money at loan shark rates. He was really a businessman. 00:08:37.250 --> 00:08:39.250 He started investing in Chicago real estate. 00:08:39.490 --> 00:08:44.370 If we'd invested in Chicago real estate in the 1950s and just hung on to it, 00:08:44.450 --> 00:08:45.350 we'd have done pretty good. 00:08:45.870 --> 00:08:53.810 That was his thing. By the 50s, DeStefano really became one of the outfit's main political fixer. 00:08:53.950 --> 00:08:57.170 He found city officials, judges, policemen. 00:08:57.410 --> 00:09:01.330 He was paying off. He would brag that there wasn't any case he couldn't fix 00:09:01.330 --> 00:09:05.290 and started offering his services out to the other mob guys. 00:09:06.010 --> 00:09:11.210 His fees, I understand his fees for doing things like fixing a robbery case was $800. 00:09:11.790 --> 00:09:16.250 An assault case, he charged $1,500 for. I guess he was like a lawyer. He had a flat fee. 00:09:16.390 --> 00:09:18.830 You know, if you come to me for a traffic ticket and you tell me it's, 00:09:19.170 --> 00:09:21.790 you know, like in Kansas City, I say, okay, that'll be $150. 00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:25.750 And then I'll give me in the fine. I'll tell you what the fine is as soon as 00:09:25.750 --> 00:09:29.150 I go down and get the ticket reduced to a non-moving violation. 00:09:29.410 --> 00:09:34.750 So I guess it was $1,500 to fix or take an assault case on. He actually, 00:09:34.790 --> 00:09:38.670 actually, it fixed first degree murder cases. He did one for $20,000. 00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:40.290 I think this probably came out 00:09:40.290 --> 00:09:44.570 later in his life, probably when they did Operation Grey Lord up there. 00:09:45.450 --> 00:09:50.430 DeStefano's arrangements with the police were so routine that sometimes corrupt 00:09:50.430 --> 00:09:57.010 police officers would just take their suspects by DeStefano's house and then he'd pay off the cops. 00:09:57.250 --> 00:10:00.330 The suspects would then, even if they didn't have any money, 00:10:00.710 --> 00:10:05.050 they would be put on, that would become a juice loan. And then DeStefano would 00:10:05.050 --> 00:10:08.970 have them on the hook for a juice loan, a high interest loan rate. 00:10:09.050 --> 00:10:14.030 Say if he paid off the cops, gave the cops a thousand bucks and they'd owe DeStefano a thousand bucks. 00:10:14.150 --> 00:10:19.230 Plus they'd have to pay him about, you know, like 300% interest every month on that. 00:10:19.450 --> 00:10:22.650 You know, that just extended his loan sharking activities. 00:10:22.850 --> 00:10:27.410 And by the 1960s, he was known as a leading loan shark in the Chicago outfit, 00:10:27.650 --> 00:10:32.090 which is that Chicago is a pretty big place and they have a huge, big outfit. 00:10:32.770 --> 00:10:37.890 By the 60s and 70s, really, Chicago had the biggest organized crime family in 00:10:37.890 --> 00:10:39.410 the United States, single family. 00:10:39.530 --> 00:10:42.610 Now, if you put all five families in New York City together, 00:10:42.610 --> 00:10:44.010 you would have a bigger family. 00:10:44.190 --> 00:10:49.150 But Chicago is a single family with a single boss, had the largest one in the United States. 00:10:49.510 --> 00:10:53.270 His loan shark's victims were not only these criminals and small-time criminals 00:10:53.270 --> 00:10:56.230 and some larger-time criminals that didn't have any money, needed money, 00:10:56.370 --> 00:11:01.650 also politicians and lawyers. He was charging 20% to 25% a week in interest. 00:11:01.890 --> 00:11:06.610 He would accept any high-risk debtors like drug addicts or businessmen who had 00:11:06.610 --> 00:11:08.590 already defaulted on other debts. 00:11:09.610 --> 00:11:14.610 But it's claimed that the reason DeStefano would do that because he enjoyed 00:11:14.610 --> 00:11:15.970 it when they didn't pay on time. 00:11:16.170 --> 00:11:19.550 He had a soundproof torture chamber built into his basement, 00:11:19.550 --> 00:11:21.650 and he liked to bring those guys down there. 00:11:21.830 --> 00:11:26.250 So don't be borrowing any money from Mad Sam, a guy called Mad Sam. 00:11:26.570 --> 00:11:30.550 If you do, don't go over to his house. Don't pay me. I like that because then 00:11:30.550 --> 00:11:33.710 I'm going to put you down in my basement and torture you for a little bit. 00:11:33.930 --> 00:11:37.750 That's why I've got that acetylene torch down there. You don't want to know 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:40.730 what you do with the torch. We'll get on to the vice later on. 00:11:40.990 --> 00:11:44.790 He'd been known to kill debtors who owed him small sums just so he'd scare others 00:11:44.790 --> 00:11:45.930 into paying their debts. 00:11:46.250 --> 00:11:50.490 And this guy, here's another thing. This guy was canny. This guy was really canny. 00:11:50.690 --> 00:11:54.290 He would give his loan shark victims, or shall we say, 00:11:54.490 --> 00:12:00.610 clients, his debtors, he's the creditor and his debtors, or loan shark victims 00:12:00.610 --> 00:12:04.250 as the law enforcement would call them, he would give his debtors presents, 00:12:04.250 --> 00:12:08.410 like a gold watch with his name engraved on the back of it. 00:12:08.750 --> 00:12:11.570 If he ended up killing the victim, accused of it, he could say, 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:15.030 well, no, why would I kill him? Look how close I was. 00:12:15.370 --> 00:12:19.210 He was wearing this gold watch that I gave him, and it's got my name inscribed 00:12:19.210 --> 00:12:22.870 on the back of it. That's how much he liked me. Guy was devious, wasn't he? 00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:26.430 He was kind of an interesting looking guy. I've seen pictures of him. 00:12:26.590 --> 00:12:31.450 He wears black, thick black horn-rimmed glasses. 00:12:31.650 --> 00:12:35.210 Kind of looks like a high school teacher or something. A nerd, you know. 00:12:35.330 --> 00:12:39.890 People believed he couldn't see without him. But in fact, those were just a cover. 00:12:40.110 --> 00:12:42.970 I mean, this guy was, he just lived a criminal's life. 00:12:43.110 --> 00:12:46.770 Seemed like it was more than just business. He got a certain amount of pleasure 00:12:46.770 --> 00:12:48.250 out of it, it would appear to me. 00:12:48.730 --> 00:12:53.530 Normally, the outfit would not have probably had anything to do with a guy like this. 00:12:53.670 --> 00:12:57.330 He was, and he earned, here's the thing, is he earned them a great deal of money 00:12:57.330 --> 00:13:03.010 because every time he made a score, Giancana and Tony Accardo made a score and 00:13:03.010 --> 00:13:06.290 they even invested some of their own money into his loan sharking operations. 00:13:06.290 --> 00:13:08.230 You see, that's, that's one thing that they'll do. 00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:10.990 They'll say, Hey, you got some money. Let me put it on the street for you. 00:13:11.630 --> 00:13:15.150 You're the loan shark. And I got an extra 10 grand, 10 grand. 00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:18.930 I'll give you 10 grand. Then you, at your job, you'll know these different people 00:13:18.930 --> 00:13:22.670 that loan money. And you'll, you'll say, okay, this will, I'll give you 10 for 15. 00:13:23.330 --> 00:13:27.890 I'll give you, you know, 20 for 30. And the understanding is you got to pay 00:13:27.890 --> 00:13:31.070 the next paycheck in a week or so. You got to give me back 30 bucks. 00:13:31.270 --> 00:13:33.430 And so then you'll pay me. 00:13:33.630 --> 00:13:37.550 You'll take a little piece of that for making the loan. And I put up the money 00:13:37.550 --> 00:13:41.590 and then I'll get the bigger piece of the bigger, the interest rate on that. 00:13:41.710 --> 00:13:44.330 What Jim kind of was doing with him, they were putting, you know, 00:13:44.410 --> 00:13:47.390 $50,000 on the street and he'd have to keep track of that separate. 00:13:47.630 --> 00:13:52.990 This guy, he knew the, he knew the about sending a message. We got a story a 00:13:52.990 --> 00:13:56.230 little bit later that's unbelievable that what he did. 00:13:56.410 --> 00:14:00.610 He even went after newspaper reporters. There was a Chicago Tribune reporter 00:14:00.610 --> 00:14:04.730 named William Daughtry who wrote a negative story about him. 00:14:05.030 --> 00:14:11.610 And DeStefano laid in wait for him outside when he got off the paper one day and he assaulted him. 00:14:11.770 --> 00:14:15.710 He chased him. He had a gun in his hand and he threatened to shoot him and threatened his family. 00:14:15.910 --> 00:14:19.090 And when Daughtry ran away from him, he broke the windows on his car. 00:14:19.810 --> 00:14:22.870 That's when he started getting his name of Mad Sam. 00:14:23.670 --> 00:14:27.510 And everybody on the streets that were around him, knew anything about him, 00:14:27.790 --> 00:14:32.570 had knowledge that he was bizarre and crazy. And it just kind of keeps getting worse. 00:14:32.850 --> 00:14:35.990 Called the Lemon Law of a bad car. It keeps going bad and they can't fix it. 00:14:36.330 --> 00:14:38.850 Well, he bought one of those. It's a brand new car. 00:14:39.490 --> 00:14:44.590 Rode all over and said, this is a lemon. So everybody would know that this car was a lemon. 00:14:44.810 --> 00:14:48.990 And he also hung grapefruits all around it. I guess lemons weren't big enough. 00:14:49.090 --> 00:14:51.650 So he hung grapefruits on it and wanted everybody to know. 00:14:51.770 --> 00:14:56.970 But this is a mob outfit dude who's doing that kind of stuff. 00:14:57.110 --> 00:15:00.370 I can't believe they didn't go ahead and kill him early on. Here's another thing 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:03.170 he does. He likes to pretend like he's a lawyer. 00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:06.030 And he always wants to be his own lawyer. 00:15:06.170 --> 00:15:12.450 One time in the early 60s, he was arrested with another fellow for forgery. 00:15:12.670 --> 00:15:17.130 And at their trial, he acted like he was a lawyer for both of them. 00:15:17.130 --> 00:15:21.690 And he demanded to know the names of all employees in the state's attorney's 00:15:21.690 --> 00:15:25.010 office and the sheriff's office so they could be called as witnesses. 00:15:25.550 --> 00:15:29.930 He liked to represent himself and make all kinds of crazy demands. 00:15:30.610 --> 00:15:37.150 Another time, he was so confusing that nobody in the courtroom even knew what he was talking about. 00:15:37.350 --> 00:15:40.690 He'd do stuff like he walked up to the jury and he says, have you ever seen 00:15:40.690 --> 00:15:44.530 an elephant? He turns to the judge and he says, I plead guilty. 00:15:44.810 --> 00:15:45.650 And then he turned back to the 00:15:45.650 --> 00:15:49.690 jury and he said, Something's come to light that I had not known before. 00:15:50.620 --> 00:15:55.040 It was a disorderly conduct case. It was a small-time case. He might not have represented himself. 00:15:55.180 --> 00:15:58.840 It had been something with some serious jail time as disorderly conduct. 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:01.320 So the jury found him guilty and fined him $100. 00:16:01.880 --> 00:16:07.740 Some of the people around him claimed that he would tell his compadres that 00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:12.500 it was his dream in life to own a pig farm so he could feed his victims to pigs. 00:16:12.680 --> 00:16:16.120 He claimed he even drove to pig farms just to watch them for hours. 00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:20.240 I mean, this guy, he was, as I said before, a half a bubble off a plum, 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:21.900 or probably a whole bubble off of plum. 00:16:22.660 --> 00:16:25.600 Hogs, are they vegetarian? Maybe they eat slop. Here's another. 00:16:25.760 --> 00:16:29.220 There's an informant who will end up going in the program and talking about 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:35.040 DeStefano, and he claims that one time DeStefano got mad at his wife. Her name was Anita. 00:16:35.280 --> 00:16:39.440 He took out his gun. He put the end of the barrel in the mouth and then told 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.340 her to reach out and pull the trigger, and she wouldn't do it. 00:16:42.580 --> 00:16:48.440 And finally, he just started laughing and then would go out and tell his, 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:54.020 mob buddies over and over again, this same story about how he would, how he did that. 00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:57.080 This Bill Romer we talked about, FBI agent Bill Romer. 00:16:57.680 --> 00:17:02.080 Agents often would just show up at these mob guys' houses, just knock on the 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:03.280 door and just say, how you doing? 00:17:03.460 --> 00:17:07.000 Just stop by and talk to them just to see, you know, shake them up or maybe 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.180 somebody would have some trouble and they'd be there at the right time. 00:17:10.280 --> 00:17:14.660 They'd say, okay, here's my lifeline. I'm in big trouble and here's my lifeline. 00:17:14.800 --> 00:17:19.580 But anyhow, he was assigned to go to DeStefano's house periodically or go find 00:17:19.580 --> 00:17:22.480 DeStefano and talk to him and just question him a little bit. 00:17:22.600 --> 00:17:25.080 And usually those guys just say, you know, I'm not talking to you. 00:17:25.220 --> 00:17:29.060 He'd go over to the house and DeStefano would walk down the stairs in his pajamas, 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:34.900 but he would have his penis hanging out while his wife was serving the agents coffee. 00:17:38.300 --> 00:17:42.520 And another interesting thing, the agents would remark that coffee had kind 00:17:42.520 --> 00:17:45.160 of a funny taste to it. They didn't really like the coffee, 00:17:45.700 --> 00:17:49.320 Sam claimed the coffee was made from special Italian coffee beans. 00:17:49.600 --> 00:17:54.380 Rover claims that he found out later just to find I'd been peeing in the coffee 00:17:54.380 --> 00:17:55.900 before they brought it in to the agent. 00:17:56.040 --> 00:18:00.800 When I was a policeman in uniform and I was around people that were giving me 00:18:00.800 --> 00:18:05.320 anything to eat, I wouldn't take it unless I saw him do it. I saw him fix it. 00:18:05.420 --> 00:18:10.000 Like, I did not go into a restaurant and just order a meal. I never, 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.260 ever would, unless I knew the people that were working there. 00:18:13.260 --> 00:18:17.360 It was kind of the, they put the dysfunction and dysfunctional relationship, didn't they? 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.880 Or the dis and dysfunctional relationship, man. 00:18:21.040 --> 00:18:25.000 It's amazing what people do to stay married. Sometimes he was in a little drug 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:28.900 dealing caper with a bad Chicago cop named Tommy Dorso. 00:18:29.360 --> 00:18:33.980 Dorso started telling people that he once saw DeStefano roll around on the floor 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:39.060 with spit running from his mouth. And he was yelling and begging Satan to show 00:18:39.060 --> 00:18:41.020 him mercy, screaming over and over again. 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.340 I'm your servant, command me. So he was even like, that's one, 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:45.960 another rumor about him. 00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:50.620 He was a Satanist and worshiped Satan. So he was possessed by the devil. 00:18:50.860 --> 00:18:54.040 I don't know. I mean, this guy was, he was a piece of work. 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:55.620 Here's one of the worst ones, one 00:18:55.620 --> 00:18:59.660 of the craziest ones, the stories that I found. He was mad at his wife. 00:18:59.820 --> 00:19:03.360 He went out and he's in his car and he sees a guy walking down the street. 00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:07.360 He kidnaps a guy. He forces a guy into his car at gunpoint. 00:19:07.360 --> 00:19:13.220 He takes a guy to his house and he forces the man at gunpoint to have sex with 00:19:13.220 --> 00:19:19.040 his wife for some imagined or real grievance that he had with some problem he had with his wife. 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:22.380 Afterwards, supposedly, the man went to the nearest police station, 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.080 reported the incident. But I don't think anything happened over that. 00:19:25.180 --> 00:19:29.360 I think probably they wouldn't even believe him. And if they did, it was Mad Sam. 00:19:29.580 --> 00:19:33.420 So what the hell? He was described as a highly emotional. What do you think? 00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:39.320 Highly emotional, temperamental individual. The FBI reports the extremely egotistic 00:19:39.320 --> 00:19:41.280 and concerned with his own personal appearance. 00:19:42.800 --> 00:19:47.640 He's a total nutcase. The walls of his home were lined with mirrors so he could 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.160 continually watch his reflections in those mirrors as he walked around. 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.120 He said he could be crying in one minute and laughing the next. 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:59.380 He used to like to say if he hadn't been framed for that rape when he was 17, 00:19:59.380 --> 00:20:01.580 he would have been the president of the United States. 00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:04.620 He brought his brothers, Mario and Michael, into the business. 00:20:05.780 --> 00:20:10.380 Mario was a good mob guy. They said he was almost as sick as Mad Sam, 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:17.620 But he was and we'll find out some about Mario later on to let you know he is a sick dude. 00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:22.480 But his brother Michael was kind of soft and he ends up being a heroin addict 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.940 and and weak and can't do anything. 00:20:26.120 --> 00:20:28.300 And he knew too much in the outfit. 00:20:28.760 --> 00:20:33.660 Some probably a card over probably Giancana called got a hold of Mad Sam and 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:37.860 said, you know, you got you got to do something about your brother. He's he's weak. 00:20:38.120 --> 00:20:42.480 He's a heroin addict. He's an embarrassment, and he knows too much now. 00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:50.320 And September the 17th, 1955, Chicago police got a call about the location of 00:20:50.320 --> 00:20:52.280 a fresh, what we call a fresh body. 00:20:52.420 --> 00:20:55.780 It hadn't been sitting there for a long time in a car's trunk. 00:20:56.300 --> 00:21:02.580 They make the call, and when they find it, they find Michael was shot in the body but not in the head. 00:21:02.580 --> 00:21:07.260 And what was interesting in the autopsy, when they started looking at the body 00:21:07.260 --> 00:21:12.300 had been recently bathed and cleaned up and some of whoever the anonymous caller 00:21:12.300 --> 00:21:16.900 was made sure that the body was found before it went into any kind of decomposition. 00:21:17.300 --> 00:21:23.040 So the supposition, of course, is Mad Sam did this himself and he wanted to 00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:25.140 preserve, make sure the body wasn't all messed up. 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:29.440 So when they had the funeral, they could have an open casket funeral for his 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:34.760 family. One of the two most famous crimes that he's suspected being involved 00:21:34.760 --> 00:21:38.240 in, and one is pretty well known, there's a loan shark, weighed 300 pounds. 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.860 His name was William Jackson. They called him Action, Action Jackson. 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:45.960 Jackson was up and was called by the FBI to come up to Milwaukee. 00:21:46.120 --> 00:21:49.120 You know, Milwaukee is just a hop, skip and a jump north of Chicago. 00:21:49.580 --> 00:21:53.120 And he had to meet with the FBI up in Chicago, or up in Milwaukee. 00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:56.500 I guess he didn't tell any of his mob bosses he was up there, 00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:00.560 and someone happened to see at the federal building, and they were assuming 00:22:00.560 --> 00:22:04.620 that he was sneaking off to start ratting people out, and he knew a lot. 00:22:04.620 --> 00:22:09.220 He was a loan shark under our boy, Sam DeStefano. 00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:13.560 DeStefano used somebody else probably and called Mr. 00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:19.200 Jackson to the Chicago meatpacking plant, and he was met by a crew who then 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:22.840 took him into custody, shall we say, hung him up. 00:22:23.370 --> 00:22:28.250 With a meat hook impaled up inside of his rectum. And they started working out 00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:30.450 on him. They kept this guy alive for three days. 00:22:30.830 --> 00:22:35.750 They smashed his knees with a sledgehammer. They worked over his body with a blowtorch. 00:22:35.830 --> 00:22:39.990 They beat his genitals with a, and they used an electric prod on it. 00:22:40.070 --> 00:22:45.330 And finally he died from his injuries and they stuck him in the trunk of a Cadillac car. 00:22:46.010 --> 00:22:49.750 You know, a Cadillac Eldorado was maybe the only car that was big enough to 00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:51.970 put Action Jackson in and hold him. 00:22:51.970 --> 00:22:54.850 There are several famous photos out there on the internet 00:22:54.850 --> 00:22:57.990 of this and there's one of that show his his shall 00:22:57.990 --> 00:23:00.910 we say his testicles and they're just swollen up 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:03.910 to the size of of grapefruits hanging 00:23:03.910 --> 00:23:06.910 down there between his legs it's probably the meat hook 00:23:06.910 --> 00:23:10.210 was on a winch that came down closer 00:23:10.210 --> 00:23:13.250 to the ground and then they could hook it in there and then then pull 00:23:13.250 --> 00:23:16.410 it up man i tell you what the and 300 pounds 00:23:16.410 --> 00:23:19.170 all hanging on that just that right there'd be enough to kill 00:23:19.170 --> 00:23:22.650 you and you know the the the sad thing 00:23:22.650 --> 00:23:25.670 about this he didn't he didn't he wasn't ratting anybody out 00:23:25.670 --> 00:23:28.570 he wasn't snitching they killed him for nothing really 00:23:28.570 --> 00:23:31.690 unfortunately they did unfortunately for mr jackson he 00:23:31.690 --> 00:23:35.310 he's wishing he would have snitched and gone into witness protection program 00:23:35.310 --> 00:23:39.410 so to get for being a stand-up guy i guess that might have been what happened 00:23:39.410 --> 00:23:43.210 is he finally just okay i did hoping they'd go ahead and kill him and then then 00:23:43.210 --> 00:23:47.170 they got madder and continued to torture him mad Sam was just getting off on 00:23:47.170 --> 00:23:49.990 it more than likely. Now remember the movie. 00:23:50.870 --> 00:23:55.370 Casino. And at the very beginning of it, the Joe Pesci character has got a 00:23:55.370 --> 00:23:59.890 guy's head in his vice and he's screaming at him to tell him something and he's 00:23:59.890 --> 00:24:01.070 tightening the vice on him. 00:24:01.290 --> 00:24:04.450 You remember that? Well, see, the Joe Pesci character, God, 00:24:04.510 --> 00:24:07.050 I can't all of a sudden, I know that name as well as I know my own, 00:24:07.170 --> 00:24:11.770 but he was, the character was based on Tony Spilotro, who was in Las Vegas at that time. 00:24:11.910 --> 00:24:16.370 And back in the early days when Tony Spilotro got going, if you remember, 00:24:16.510 --> 00:24:20.930 I said last time that Mad Sam had taken Tony in and mentored him. 00:24:21.070 --> 00:24:22.950 And he was one of his juice loan collectors. 00:24:23.210 --> 00:24:28.970 And there were two guys, the M&M brothers, they called them Billy McCarthy and Jimmy Moralia. 00:24:29.370 --> 00:24:32.250 And they were tough guys. Well, these guys, the M&M brothers, 00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:34.710 they both owed juice loans to Mad Sam. 00:24:35.110 --> 00:24:39.790 So Cardo reaches out to Mad Sam and says, okay, you know, these guys, 00:24:39.990 --> 00:24:41.630 you got to do something about them. 00:24:41.770 --> 00:24:46.050 He had the three collectors working for him at the time. and Mad Sam gave them 00:24:46.050 --> 00:24:47.690 the job of taking care of this. 00:24:47.950 --> 00:24:50.630 Charles Nicoletti, Phil Alderiseo, 00:24:50.790 --> 00:24:54.150 that's Milwaukee Phil is what they called him, and Tony Spilotro. 00:24:54.570 --> 00:24:59.030 They found Billy McCarthy and kidnapped him. They started torturing him to find 00:24:59.030 --> 00:25:00.690 out the name of his accomplice. 00:25:00.770 --> 00:25:05.910 I think they already knew it, but they wanted to verify for sure it was Jimmy Moraglia. 00:25:06.490 --> 00:25:11.490 Spilotro put his head in a vice. He truly did this. I think maybe Frank Culotta 00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:15.330 even has, he wasn't there, but he helped set him up. 00:25:15.870 --> 00:25:20.790 Tony Splilotro told the story to Frank Culotta later on, and Frank told the authorities 00:25:20.790 --> 00:25:23.110 whenever he'd went in the witness protection program. 00:25:23.470 --> 00:25:28.310 And Spilotro actually helped set one of them up to got him to go meet some of these guys someplace. 00:25:29.150 --> 00:25:33.350 While Spilotro's got his head in the vice, he's asking him who his partner was. 00:25:33.890 --> 00:25:37.650 A lot of that, one of his eyes popped completely out of its socket. 00:25:37.650 --> 00:25:42.550 And at that point in time, he told his accomplice's name. 00:25:43.230 --> 00:25:48.130 Now, shortly after that, they found Jimmy, the other of the M&M brothers. 00:25:48.350 --> 00:25:51.550 They found Jimmy and just immediately killed him. 00:25:51.930 --> 00:25:55.490 Now, it's known on the streets that Matt Sam was not happy about that. 00:25:55.490 --> 00:25:57.910 He wanted to bring him in and torture him for a little bit. 00:25:58.550 --> 00:26:01.950 Spilotro did tell people about it, and he told this to Frank Cullotta also. 00:26:02.250 --> 00:26:08.790 He said, boy, he said, Spilotro was impressed by Nicoletti, Charles Nicoletti's 00:26:08.790 --> 00:26:13.350 reactions. as Spilotro's cranking the vice tighter and tighter. 00:26:13.650 --> 00:26:19.670 And when the eye pops out, he tells his buddy Frank Cullotta about Nicoletti's reaction. 00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:23.890 He said, man, this is a heartless guy. He said he was eating pasta when Billy's 00:26:23.890 --> 00:26:26.390 eye popped out. And this is a tough world, man. 00:26:27.170 --> 00:26:30.590 Cullotta also told the authorities after he came into witness protection about 00:26:30.590 --> 00:26:32.770 a time he was with Mad Sam. 00:26:32.950 --> 00:26:38.490 And Frank wants to go talk to a lawyer who he doesn't think is doing right. 00:26:38.490 --> 00:26:40.490 And Mad Sam goes along with him. 00:26:40.530 --> 00:26:43.410 And all of a sudden, Mad Sam just goes crazy and starts yelling and screaming 00:26:43.410 --> 00:26:47.350 at the lawyer and said that if you don't take care of the guy on this case like 00:26:47.350 --> 00:26:49.190 he said he would, he said, I'll do it. 00:26:49.770 --> 00:26:52.110 Then he started calling him names and grabbing him and threatening him. 00:26:52.170 --> 00:26:55.210 And then he zipped down his pants and just started peeing on the lawyer. 00:26:55.450 --> 00:27:00.630 The lawyer's like shaking his boots by them. And Mad Sam stops and Colada says, 00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:04.430 the lawyer actually says, thanks for not killing me as they walked out. 00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:09.130 There's another one where he didn't kill the guy, But he humiliated the shit out of him. 00:27:09.770 --> 00:27:15.630 One of his collectors, a guy named Peter Capoletti, ran off with $25,000 that 00:27:15.630 --> 00:27:19.490 was actually, he got it from a loan shark victim from a debtor. 00:27:19.590 --> 00:27:25.450 He got to $25,000 and he's supposed to take it to Mad Sam and he ran off with the money. 00:27:25.610 --> 00:27:28.130 He wanted to go farther than Wisconsin. 00:27:28.370 --> 00:27:32.270 He went to Wisconsin. Yeah, it's kind of a hideout for those mob guys in Chicago 00:27:32.270 --> 00:27:34.410 as it's so close. They don't want to get too far from home. 00:27:35.110 --> 00:27:40.550 Mad Sam, he sets up a deal. There's a restaurant. He chains him to a radiator 00:27:40.550 --> 00:27:43.630 in the back of this restaurant and tortures him for three days. 00:27:43.950 --> 00:27:46.310 He likes that three-day thing. There's a banquet. 00:27:46.730 --> 00:27:50.950 At the end of this three days, there's a banquet going on out front with a bunch 00:27:50.950 --> 00:27:53.470 of this guy's relatives out there at that banquet. 00:27:53.750 --> 00:27:57.850 And Capaletti is in the back, and he's begging him, said, kill me, please. 00:27:58.730 --> 00:28:02.470 And supposedly, he said, I'm on fire. And DeStefano said, OK, 00:28:02.590 --> 00:28:06.370 we need to put that fire out then, don't we? So he had a couple of his guys drag. 00:28:07.050 --> 00:28:11.710 He'd been using the blowtorch on him. He dragged a severely burned Capaletti 00:28:11.710 --> 00:28:17.170 out in the dining area where the man's family was at this banquet and then forced 00:28:17.170 --> 00:28:22.050 them to all pee on him in use in it in order to put the fire out, shall we say. 00:28:22.570 --> 00:28:28.330 Following the banquet, authorities report that the family paid back the $25,000 in stolen money. 00:28:28.790 --> 00:28:33.190 Well, November 1963, the year I graduated from high school, actually, 00:28:33.190 --> 00:28:36.910 DeStefano has a violent argument with a guy named Leo Foreman, 00:28:37.030 --> 00:28:39.870 who's a real estate agent, and one of his collectors. He works for him. 00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:45.010 Foreman won't take any crap off DeStefano, and he physically throws him out 00:28:45.010 --> 00:28:48.630 of his office, but then he knows he's in trouble. So he goes into hiding. 00:28:48.890 --> 00:28:54.010 He gets Tony Spilotro and another one of his loan collectors. 00:28:54.970 --> 00:28:58.650 Thugs that are working for him, to go get a hold of this Leo Foreman and said, 00:28:58.770 --> 00:29:01.730 you know, boss said bygone let bygones big 00:29:01.730 --> 00:29:04.590 bygones and and come on back all's well 00:29:04.590 --> 00:29:07.390 let's kiss and make up so he gets taken in by 00:29:07.390 --> 00:29:10.310 this and sam's brother mario if you remember i 00:29:10.310 --> 00:29:14.210 mentioned the one brother that killed michael but mario was a pretty decent 00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:18.590 uh outfit guy himself was tough enough was up for the job and he was he was 00:29:18.590 --> 00:29:23.750 up for several jobs they used his home and foreman went to his home thinking 00:29:23.750 --> 00:29:28.470 that he was gonna meet up with bad sam and they were gonna patch everything up, 00:29:29.150 --> 00:29:35.730 But once they got there, they got him down in the basement of Mario DiStefano's home. 00:29:36.190 --> 00:29:41.710 He was grabbed and Mario and a guy named Chucky Crimaldi and Tony Spilotro 00:29:41.710 --> 00:29:45.150 tied him up and they started beating him up to soften him up a little bit. 00:29:45.290 --> 00:29:46.670 They knew Mad Sam was on the way. 00:29:46.830 --> 00:29:53.270 Of course, they they beat him on the head and knees and nuts and everything with a hammer. 00:29:53.590 --> 00:29:57.650 And they but they didn't want to kill him. And finally... 00:29:58.250 --> 00:30:03.250 When Mad Sam got there, he used an ice pick and stabbed him about 20 times. 00:30:03.590 --> 00:30:07.670 Crimaldi, who was a witness of this and later turned government witness, 00:30:07.870 --> 00:30:12.290 said that Di Stefano screamed and giggled as he told Foreman, 00:30:12.490 --> 00:30:15.210 I told you I'd get you. Greed just got you killed. 00:30:15.430 --> 00:30:20.530 Foreman was pleading for his life, and finally Di Stefano shoots him repeatedly in the buttocks. 00:30:20.610 --> 00:30:24.290 He didn't shoot him in the head or in the heart or vital organs. 00:30:24.390 --> 00:30:27.710 He shoots him in the buttocks just to cause him more pain. Crimaldi said that 00:30:27.710 --> 00:30:34.150 DeStefano just watched, and the rest of Spilotro and Crimaldi watched this. 00:30:34.290 --> 00:30:37.890 Crimaldi was the one talking, watched Foreman bleed and whimpering for a while. 00:30:38.070 --> 00:30:41.890 And then they started torturing him with a butcher knife. They started cutting 00:30:41.890 --> 00:30:45.450 chunks of flesh out of his arms until finally he dies during this time. 00:30:45.530 --> 00:30:51.370 They turned this Chucky Crimaldi, and so Tony Spilotro and Sam and Mario DeStefano 00:30:51.370 --> 00:30:53.510 were indicted for the murder of Leo Foreman. 00:30:54.070 --> 00:30:58.810 Crimaldi's going to testify against him. You know, there's a co-defendant testifying against you. 00:30:59.290 --> 00:31:03.710 Mad Sam's making a circus of the proceedings, acting as his own attorney as usual. 00:31:03.970 --> 00:31:07.330 This is one where he has some kind of an operation, like a hernia operation, 00:31:07.370 --> 00:31:12.970 and he pulls up his shirt and shows the jury all his stitches and scars and 00:31:12.970 --> 00:31:15.050 stuff. He is just goofy as hell. 00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:20.190 No statute of limitations on murder, and they didn't turn Chucky until 1972. 00:31:20.710 --> 00:31:23.510 It's kind of how that works. More than likely, when they turn like that, 00:31:23.610 --> 00:31:26.830 they figure that they're next up on the hit list, so they better go in. 00:31:27.010 --> 00:31:31.050 Well, by this point in time, even the outfit just says, you know, 00:31:31.170 --> 00:31:34.290 this guy's too nuts. We got to do something about him. 00:31:34.830 --> 00:31:37.430 They end up getting out on bail. 00:31:38.050 --> 00:31:41.530 When Sam comes into court, some of the preliminary hearings, 00:31:41.570 --> 00:31:43.810 he would demand to speak through a bullhorn. 00:31:44.460 --> 00:31:48.660 He would appear at the courtroom in pajamas. He'd have them hauling men on his 00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:51.320 stretcher. He would do long-winded rants. 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:56.980 He would do things like try to, he would yell stuff like the investigators that 00:31:56.980 --> 00:31:59.720 are doing this are colluding with Joseph Stalin. 00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:03.800 And of course, he was alienating the judge and the jury. And that was a huge, 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.780 really a high-profile event. 00:32:06.100 --> 00:32:10.420 And Spilatro and his brother, you know, he was hurting them because they were 00:32:10.420 --> 00:32:12.140 also on trial for this whole deal. 00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:17.760 With the approval, it had to be with the approval of Giancana and Anthony Accardo, 00:32:18.340 --> 00:32:23.780 his own brother Mario and Tony Spilotro devised a plan to keep him quiet for good. 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:27.760 You know, this Chucky Carmaldi has gone in the witness protection program and 00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:31.800 he's testifying against him. And without Chucky Carmaldi, they probably will walk on it. 00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:36.640 Sam, they all got a case. Upfit says, this guy's acting so crazy and drawing 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.460 so much attention, they've just had enough. And they're saying, 00:32:39.580 --> 00:32:41.080 we got to do something about him. 00:32:41.660 --> 00:32:45.140 So if you remember, we suspect Mad Sam killed his other brother, 00:32:45.300 --> 00:32:49.060 Michael, or had him killed and probably killed him or took part in it. 00:32:49.320 --> 00:32:55.240 Now his own brother, Mario, and Tony Splatro are making plans to kill Mad Sam. 00:32:55.420 --> 00:32:58.540 Because they said, you know, it's been reported that this Mario was, 00:32:58.660 --> 00:33:04.940 he was just as mean and cruel and sadistic as Mad Sam. He just wasn't crazy about it. 00:33:05.100 --> 00:33:09.080 They tell him that they found where Chuckie Crimaldi is being hidden by the 00:33:09.080 --> 00:33:13.640 authorities that they paid off the policemen who are guarding him. Sam was ecstatic. 00:33:14.040 --> 00:33:17.720 He was thinking about the fun he'd have exacting some revenge on Mr. 00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:19.540 Camaldi, the stool pigeon. 00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:24.700 Mad Sam and Mario, his brother Mario and Tony Splatro all get together and the 00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:28.520 time comes, they tell him they're gonna come and pick him up and they're gonna 00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:32.260 go, they know where Chucky is being held. 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:38.200 Mad Sam is out in his driveway in his garage waiting for him to come up. 00:33:38.900 --> 00:33:43.220 Mario drives up in the driveway with Tony Splatro. 00:33:43.760 --> 00:33:49.420 I walk up to him and into the garage, and as soon as they get close to him, 00:33:49.620 --> 00:33:53.620 Mario steps aside, and Tony Splatro's got a double-barreled sawed-off shotgun. 00:33:54.100 --> 00:33:58.120 He's been hiding underneath his coat. He just pulls up and fires both barrels at him. 00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:03.040 First shot blew off Mad Sims, one of his arms, and the second one hit him full 00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:05.200 on the chest, and he was dead before he hit the ground. 00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:11.720 April 14th, 1973, Mad Sam is no longer, but his skills, of course, 00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:14.520 were passed on to Tony the at Spilotro. 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:21.180 Now, Spilotro and his brother, Mario, ended up getting acquitted in this Leo Foreman murder trial. 00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:24.760 And after that, the rest is history with Spilotro. I'm not sure what happened 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:25.960 to Mario, the other brother. 00:34:26.160 --> 00:34:32.600 Mad Sam gone, Crimaldi might have laid everything off onto Mad Sam and minimized on Spilotro. 00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:37.260 You never know how these deals come down. Plus, if this was the case I'm thinking 00:34:37.260 --> 00:34:42.740 of, Tony Spilotro and several other Chicago outfit people were acquitted in 00:34:42.740 --> 00:34:45.820 murder trials in Chicago because they just bought off the judge. 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.180 Here's what the judge would do. 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:51.520 Spilotro's attorney would ask for a bench trial, not a jury trial. 00:34:51.820 --> 00:34:55.740 Judge would approve that. The prosecutor can't ask for a jury trial. 00:34:55.900 --> 00:34:58.400 If the defendant doesn't want one, he wants to be tried by a judge. 00:34:58.560 --> 00:35:02.520 They bought off the judge, and Tony Spilotro bought off the judge on at least 00:35:02.520 --> 00:35:05.740 one murder trial. This may have been the murder trial that he bought off on. 00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:10.580 I was thinking it was a murder trial on killing the M&M twins, 00:35:10.580 --> 00:35:12.100 but it might have been this one. 00:35:12.340 --> 00:35:17.580 Or maybe he bought him off on both of them. Anyhow, that's the story of Mad Sam DeStefano. 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:21.300 And this isn't a serial killer, but he's damn close to it. 00:35:21.860 --> 00:35:26.220 He's no Bob Berdella. He didn't hold them for three days and stick carrots up their butt. 00:35:26.980 --> 00:35:30.920 But he held them for three days and beat their genitals and stick. 00:35:31.340 --> 00:35:34.740 Well, he did. Actually, he sticked a hook up that one guy's butt and hauled 00:35:34.740 --> 00:35:37.560 him up and held him up there. So he is just as bad as Bob Berdella. 00:35:37.680 --> 00:35:42.020 For money, there is no explanation for a family like this or people like this. 00:35:42.720 --> 00:35:46.900 You imagine what their childhood must have been like? I'll bet their dad was one mean sucker. 00:35:47.120 --> 00:35:50.600 All right. Gets us to the time when I'd make my public service announcement. 00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:54.540 If you have a friend or relative who has a problem with drugs or alcohol, 00:35:54.700 --> 00:36:02.660 make your first call to First Call. Call 816-361-5900 or go to their website, www.firstcallkc.org. 00:36:02.780 --> 00:36:05.060 Vincent Salano. I'm the advice of my lawyer. 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.360 I respect where you choose to answer that question. As my truthful answerer 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:10.540 may tend to incriminate me. 00:36:10.720 --> 00:36:13.480 May tend to incriminate me. May tend to incriminate me.