WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:04.597 Welcome to another episode of the podcast. This week's guest is none other than 00:00:04.597 --> 00:00:09.337 Stefan Holm, Olympic gold medalist and one of the most elite high jumpers throughout history. 00:00:09.537 --> 00:00:15.397 Standing at only 5 feet 11 inches tall or 1.81 meters, Stefan co-owns the height 00:00:15.397 --> 00:00:22.197 jumped overhead world record with a best of 2.40 meters or 7 feet 10 and a half inches. 00:00:22.437 --> 00:00:26.717 Since retirement, Stefan has taken on coaching and on today's episode I talk 00:00:26.717 --> 00:00:31.557 with Stefan about his early life as an athlete, his formative sport and athletic 00:00:31.557 --> 00:00:35.717 experiences, along with the tree of coaching that led to his own training methods. 00:00:36.177 --> 00:00:39.737 Stefan also covers his own training methodology, plyometrics, 00:00:39.877 --> 00:00:42.677 high jump practice, strength training, and much more. 00:00:42.817 --> 00:00:47.057 This was an awesome show, not just for training ideas, but also an opportunity 00:00:47.057 --> 00:00:52.517 to look into the formation and practice of one of the best of all time in their 00:00:52.517 --> 00:00:53.817 given sport discipline. 00:00:54.077 --> 00:00:56.377 Let's get on to the episode with Stefan Holm. 00:00:57.517 --> 00:01:00.917 Stefan, thank you for joining me for the show. I've been looking forward to 00:01:00.917 --> 00:01:04.317 this interview for really a long time, but I was really excited when Henrik 00:01:04.317 --> 00:01:07.237 could make that connection. So thank you for being here today. 00:01:08.437 --> 00:01:09.177 Thank you for having me. 00:01:10.157 --> 00:01:15.337 Yes. You know, one of the, there's that video series of you and Donald Thomas, like that, 00:01:15.437 --> 00:01:20.477 I think a German TV company did and something that's really memorable to me 00:01:20.477 --> 00:01:25.677 or just stands out for some reason is it's you as a young boy jumping over like 00:01:25.677 --> 00:01:30.017 a high jump apparatus in the backyard. It looks like just like a hurdle jump. 00:01:30.337 --> 00:01:35.657 But I'm curious of your background, like growing up, your introduction to the 00:01:35.657 --> 00:01:38.857 sport of track and field, and what other sports you did. 00:01:39.697 --> 00:01:44.397 We call it soccer here in the United States or football. What was your athletic 00:01:44.397 --> 00:01:50.077 experience like as a child that led you into ultimately being a high-level athlete. 00:01:52.306 --> 00:01:55.706 I really, I mean, my dream was to be a professional soccer player. 00:01:56.386 --> 00:01:59.786 My father was playing soccer on a low level in Sweden. 00:02:00.706 --> 00:02:05.286 And I loved football, I still do. But I wasn't very good at it, actually. 00:02:07.006 --> 00:02:13.346 But already, I mean, growing up, what I did, we tried every single sport. 00:02:13.566 --> 00:02:17.106 We played tennis, we played ice hockey, we played track and field, 00:02:17.246 --> 00:02:18.646 we played football, of course. 00:02:19.386 --> 00:02:26.726 We just played out, tried to do everything. but a friend of mine he was a couple 00:02:26.726 --> 00:02:30.626 of months older than me he more or less beat me in everything in every single 00:02:30.626 --> 00:02:32.266 sport but I beat him in high jump, 00:02:33.066 --> 00:02:38.006 and then when I started the first class in school they usually have the high 00:02:38.006 --> 00:02:41.686 jump pit outside because they used it in gym class so we started jumping there 00:02:41.686 --> 00:02:46.626 and I jumped higher than the other classmates and higher than the older kids 00:02:46.626 --> 00:02:49.886 in school and I realized that yeah maybe I'm a pretty decent high jumper, 00:02:51.066 --> 00:02:54.046 and then in 1987 a Swedish guy named Patrick Sjöberg 00:02:54.046 --> 00:02:57.066 he broke the world record and he also won the 00:02:57.066 --> 00:03:02.946 world championships in Rome and then I had a classmate who was in she was training 00:03:02.946 --> 00:03:08.786 track and field in a club nearby so I joined her for training and then I was 00:03:08.786 --> 00:03:12.406 11 and a half years old and then I I'm still in the sport since then so I mean 00:03:12.406 --> 00:03:15.646 I I realized quite early the high jump, 00:03:16.626 --> 00:03:21.526 I could succeed as a high jumper and of course I had high dreams you never know 00:03:21.526 --> 00:03:24.186 what you're going to lead you to but, 00:03:25.206 --> 00:03:29.566 quite I mean I won some competitions at a young age when I was 12, 00:03:29.726 --> 00:03:35.206 13 years old I was jumping pretty high and people encouraged me to keep on jumping Yeah. 00:03:35.626 --> 00:03:39.446 What Stefan, what sports did your parents do like in terms of, 00:03:39.626 --> 00:03:42.506 I guess people would look at what you did and think about 00:03:42.506 --> 00:03:47.606 well your genetics and but it's interesting because I you can't I wouldn't think 00:03:47.606 --> 00:03:52.006 that you're a person who has these insane genetics for high jump I mean obviously 00:03:52.006 --> 00:03:57.346 they were good but to what you actually did was incredible but I am curious 00:03:57.346 --> 00:04:00.966 what your parents did like what was their sporting background and and what kind 00:04:00.966 --> 00:04:02.026 of family you came from there 00:04:03.991 --> 00:04:09.731 My father was playing soccer. He was a pretty good goalkeeper on a local level here in Sweden. 00:04:11.211 --> 00:04:14.971 And he also played ice hockey in his younger age. My mother, 00:04:15.191 --> 00:04:16.851 no sporting background at all. 00:04:17.611 --> 00:04:22.291 She says she did some school competitions when she was like 12, 13 years old. 00:04:22.371 --> 00:04:28.571 Maybe she was quite fast, but never training or doing sports on some sort of level. 00:04:29.231 --> 00:04:33.291 My sister is pretty much the same. she likes sports, she enjoys to watch it 00:04:33.291 --> 00:04:35.811 but never really did any sports herself, 00:04:38.271 --> 00:04:42.811 but if there was sports on TV we were watching especially if there were football 00:04:42.811 --> 00:04:49.591 games going on but it was a very very natural part of my life and also with 00:04:49.591 --> 00:04:52.751 all my friends that we did sports in our spare time, 00:04:53.851 --> 00:04:59.631 so I can't say that as you say I probably don't have that sort of genetics but 00:04:59.631 --> 00:05:06.191 coming from from my background i still think that i have a body that that could 00:05:06.191 --> 00:05:11.691 take a lot of pressure take a lot of training and that's also good for genetics yeah. 00:05:11.691 --> 00:05:16.231 There's so many different aspects of trainability like there is like yes like 00:05:16.231 --> 00:05:20.711 having some fast twitch muscles and outputs but like you said like also how 00:05:20.711 --> 00:05:26.231 much training can your body take and i because one of the things that I wanted to get into today, 00:05:26.411 --> 00:05:30.511 and we could jump to it a little bit now, but I'm sure that there was a pretty 00:05:30.511 --> 00:05:37.391 high volume of plyometric and explosive exercise that you needed to do to get to where you were. 00:05:37.611 --> 00:05:42.111 And the question is sometimes is, well, could other athletes handle that same 00:05:42.111 --> 00:05:43.331 amount that you could handle? 00:05:44.211 --> 00:05:48.831 It's interesting to think about what different athletes can handle in that regard. 00:05:51.226 --> 00:05:56.806 But I think you can handle a lot, all of you, but I think you have to build it up year by year. 00:05:57.586 --> 00:06:02.266 I mean, doing these sort of plyometrics that I did at the age of 28, 00:06:02.526 --> 00:06:04.706 30, I didn't start there. 00:06:04.906 --> 00:06:10.246 I mean, I started as a 12-year-old playing around with my friends and I mean, 00:06:10.366 --> 00:06:12.026 building it up year by year by year. 00:06:12.326 --> 00:06:17.806 And that's a long-term plan. but yeah you i think you could do a lot of jumping 00:06:17.806 --> 00:06:19.826 if you really want to but you have to, 00:06:21.126 --> 00:06:27.786 take it step by step you can't eat the entire elephant in one shoe you have to shoe it in small bits. 00:06:27.786 --> 00:06:34.026 Yeah the the ice hockey i it makes perfect sense being in a northern country 00:06:34.026 --> 00:06:39.606 and in sweden i it makes me think about there was a podcast guest i have who's 00:06:39.606 --> 00:06:44.106 the founder of sports Science Lab who grew up in Canada and he credited ice 00:06:44.106 --> 00:06:47.266 hockey to a lot of his athleticism, but I think he had to do figure skating. 00:06:47.626 --> 00:06:52.126 So he's like doing like a, like a full like pistol squat on a single leg skating 00:06:52.126 --> 00:06:54.426 across the whole ice and that kind of thing. 00:06:54.706 --> 00:06:57.646 But for those of us who maybe are in more Southern countries, 00:06:57.646 --> 00:07:01.206 I think there's a little bit of an underrated element of, of also being on skates. 00:07:01.306 --> 00:07:04.586 Cause I guess you think about like the foot and you're on this blade and there's 00:07:04.586 --> 00:07:07.586 just so many, yeah, different ways that we can train and move the body. 00:07:07.746 --> 00:07:11.166 So it's interesting to hear of all the different yeah your sporting background 00:07:11.166 --> 00:07:17.246 before you specialized in high jump there um so yeah 00:07:17.246 --> 00:07:22.606 But i think as a kid as a kid you should try out all kinds of sport just go 00:07:22.606 --> 00:07:28.266 to the i mean to a park and have some fun see what you can do. 00:07:28.266 --> 00:07:34.826 Yeah i with your development as well and having fun well one of the things i 00:07:34.826 --> 00:07:38.226 see in a lot of your training videos with your groups is it It seems like there's 00:07:38.226 --> 00:07:43.166 a lot of times taken to have fun or not take yourself quite so seriously, 00:07:43.486 --> 00:07:50.286 which I'm sure is probably a nice like pressure valve release in so many cases. 00:07:51.086 --> 00:07:54.146 And I wanted I did want to ask you about that. 00:07:54.246 --> 00:07:57.626 But I one of the things that I've seen a video, it was Simon Hunt who posted 00:07:57.626 --> 00:08:01.846 it was you were doing like six different types of jumps like you did the straddle 00:08:01.846 --> 00:08:05.986 jump and scissors and a California roll, which I never heard of. 00:08:05.986 --> 00:08:07.966 Like a forward somersault over the bar. 00:08:08.686 --> 00:08:12.826 And tell me a little bit about like that, like that fun or that diversity. 00:08:13.146 --> 00:08:16.846 Like, is there anything that brought up like the desire to explore all sorts 00:08:16.846 --> 00:08:21.026 of different types of jumps? Because I hadn't seen in a lot of high jumpers, I don't see that. 00:08:21.226 --> 00:08:24.206 Like, I don't see that like, hey, let's explore this all these different ways 00:08:24.206 --> 00:08:26.586 and have fun with the different ways we can jump. 00:08:28.550 --> 00:08:34.830 Well, I started jumping for fun together with my best friend on his backyard 00:08:34.830 --> 00:08:36.750 when we were like six or seven years old. 00:08:36.990 --> 00:08:40.550 And we had to do the scissor kick because we didn't have a mat to land on. 00:08:40.690 --> 00:08:41.610 We had to land on our feet. 00:08:42.250 --> 00:08:46.910 So we did a lot of scissor kick from the beginning and also trying out this 00:08:46.910 --> 00:08:51.710 straddle and trying to find new ways to jump over the bar just for fun. 00:08:51.890 --> 00:08:55.290 We did that already when we were like six, seven, eight years old. 00:08:55.950 --> 00:08:59.410 And then when I became a professional high jumper I mean it was still there 00:08:59.410 --> 00:09:04.650 it was fun to try to pass the bar in different ways and I also think it's important, 00:09:05.510 --> 00:09:12.610 for two reasons first of all it's important to know the history of your sport it's important to know, 00:09:13.910 --> 00:09:17.990 how high jump developed over the years how did they jump 30 years ago 50 years 00:09:17.990 --> 00:09:22.610 ago 100 years ago you could try that out because if they could do 2 meters with 00:09:22.610 --> 00:09:27.170 the straddle in I mean 1930s You could probably do it now if you really try to. 00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:34.270 And also, I think it's important to control your body, to find different ways 00:09:34.270 --> 00:09:36.790 to jump. It's fun, but it's also good training. 00:09:38.670 --> 00:09:47.530 Yeah, I watch some of the... Just watching your technique, and it's just so 00:09:47.530 --> 00:09:50.290 clean, and technically you're so good. 00:09:50.510 --> 00:09:55.690 And I think so often, and of course there's so many technical drills and those types of things. 00:09:56.210 --> 00:09:59.710 But I can't help but think of what technique comes from, yeah, 00:09:59.830 --> 00:10:05.170 like you said, that exploration as a young child and just how that can also 00:10:05.170 --> 00:10:07.790 help make that learning easier later on. 00:10:08.230 --> 00:10:11.790 And is that something that with the jumpers, like if you, I know you work with 00:10:11.790 --> 00:10:15.690 younger jumpers and like you said, you did that when you were even like six 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:19.850 and eight and younger, but even people who are 12, 13, 00:10:20.150 --> 00:10:25.210 15 or 16, do you spend a lot of time doing still different types of high jumping 00:10:25.210 --> 00:10:26.270 for those younger groups? 00:10:29.504 --> 00:10:32.484 We always do the scissor kick as a warm-up but i think 00:10:32.484 --> 00:10:35.484 it's a it's a good way to warm up for the fosbury flop because 00:10:35.484 --> 00:10:39.024 it's the same kind of approach the same kind of take off but 00:10:39.024 --> 00:10:41.784 it's usually a little lighter on your feet so to 00:10:41.784 --> 00:10:45.124 say it's not that much pressure uh but 00:10:45.124 --> 00:10:47.844 i also like to you know trying to get them 00:10:47.844 --> 00:10:53.684 to play around a little bit yeah but sometimes 00:10:53.684 --> 00:10:56.584 it's hard because they always want to jump higher and 00:10:56.584 --> 00:10:59.284 higher and higher and they wouldn't do the fosbury flop but we 00:10:59.284 --> 00:11:03.424 of course we're working with the short approach and stuff 00:11:03.424 --> 00:11:08.024 like that and different kind of technical um technical 00:11:08.024 --> 00:11:11.384 exercises but the thing is for me for me 00:11:11.384 --> 00:11:14.144 high jump came very very naturally i never 00:11:14.144 --> 00:11:19.484 had to work very much on my own technique so it's that that makes it hard for 00:11:19.484 --> 00:11:23.964 me to understand technical issues for other jumpers in a way because for me 00:11:23.964 --> 00:11:29.664 just relax and let it happen come on how hard how hard could it be so i i have 00:11:29.664 --> 00:11:32.664 learned a lot over the past 10 years being a coach, 00:11:34.684 --> 00:11:38.804 because i used to say that people invent new problems because there are things 00:11:38.804 --> 00:11:44.044 that i have never ever experienced myself but i think that's also good it's 00:11:44.044 --> 00:11:48.404 a good part of being a coach you get to learn new stuff all the time yeah. 00:11:48.404 --> 00:11:53.644 Yeah they say that is that many of the elite athletes the highest level, 00:11:53.824 --> 00:11:57.544 they're the ones who, like you said, so often it just comes so naturally to them. 00:11:57.644 --> 00:12:01.564 And then we'll even see it with commentators on TV who had, who were a high 00:12:01.564 --> 00:12:05.204 level athlete or high level track athlete, and they're trying to talk about someone's form. 00:12:05.764 --> 00:12:10.144 And it's clear they actually never had to go through that technical, 00:12:10.544 --> 00:12:14.204 like, like kind of really getting into it to have to understand it. 00:12:14.304 --> 00:12:15.484 It came so natural to them. 00:12:15.604 --> 00:12:19.344 So it's interesting that, well, to hear you say that, And then you also have 00:12:19.344 --> 00:12:22.604 that awareness that, yes, it just came easy to me. 00:12:22.684 --> 00:12:26.044 And now you're in the mix of, and it's the same with myself. 00:12:26.164 --> 00:12:30.784 I was a very, I grew up playing basketball and just trying to do all the different dunks in basketball. 00:12:30.964 --> 00:12:35.324 And that was my jumping bit, like literacy, I guess you could say, 00:12:35.404 --> 00:12:37.024 or just always trying to jump up the staircase. 00:12:37.024 --> 00:12:41.824 I remember when I was like 13 or 14, there was a staircase at my school and 00:12:41.824 --> 00:12:45.624 I would just get a running start and see how many stairs I could get and always 00:12:45.624 --> 00:12:50.764 try to push myself to get another stair or try to jump and touch the highest beam on the ceiling. 00:12:50.944 --> 00:12:55.084 And then there was a few issues initially, but, and I had to just teach myself. 00:12:55.084 --> 00:12:58.664 I actually didn't really have a coach, but it was always so instinctive for 00:12:58.664 --> 00:13:03.564 me that when it came time to coach, I'm, I mean, I don't know. 00:13:03.624 --> 00:13:06.624 It was definitely, it's been a learning process the whole time for sure. 00:13:06.804 --> 00:13:11.364 Like going from that element myself to actually like having to get into it and 00:13:11.364 --> 00:13:14.104 then, and then digging into different athletes and what, and yeah, 00:13:14.224 --> 00:13:18.844 where there's missing links, where you did it and it just came and it just came together. 00:13:19.464 --> 00:13:24.844 Why does this athlete not get this step and how can I go into that and help them to achieve it? 00:13:26.831 --> 00:13:33.151 Exactly. I mean, sometimes I wish that I have known 20 years ago what I know today. 00:13:33.351 --> 00:13:36.491 But on the other hand, maybe I would have complicated things very, 00:13:36.531 --> 00:13:37.871 very much for myself if I did. 00:13:38.251 --> 00:13:44.771 But I think it's nice that you're always learning stuff from other people and 00:13:44.771 --> 00:13:47.491 from other athletes, even from young athletes, I can learn something. 00:13:47.491 --> 00:13:50.491 And i i have always wondered is can i 00:13:50.491 --> 00:13:53.251 really learn teach someone how to high 00:13:53.251 --> 00:13:59.511 jump or can i only learn them or help them to jump higher but i had a young 00:13:59.511 --> 00:14:05.231 girl from a school a couple of years ago and she she really wanted to high jump 00:14:05.231 --> 00:14:09.451 and i mean she couldn't she took off with both her feet she was running from 00:14:09.451 --> 00:14:12.651 the wrong side taking off with the wrong foot and everything but, 00:14:16.291 --> 00:14:20.731 suddenly we worked it out and in the end she could do high jump with the right 00:14:20.731 --> 00:14:25.011 foot from the right side and at least i could teach her so that was also good for me to know. 00:14:25.011 --> 00:14:28.111 Yeah i i come to 00:14:28.111 --> 00:14:30.991 that thought myself especially earlier in my coaching 00:14:30.991 --> 00:14:34.531 years just with that idea of you improve 00:14:34.531 --> 00:14:37.531 the physical capacities i know my first coaching job i 00:14:37.531 --> 00:14:40.791 that was what my i really hung my hat on was hey we're 00:14:40.791 --> 00:14:43.831 getting stronger we're doing good plyometrics we're getting faster 00:14:43.831 --> 00:14:46.711 and it's showing up in 00:14:46.711 --> 00:14:49.471 their jump heights and it's definitely been later in 00:14:49.471 --> 00:14:52.231 my career that i've appreciated a lot of the more the more 00:14:52.231 --> 00:14:55.451 technical pieces of it all and i also the more 00:14:55.451 --> 00:15:01.211 i the more i watch like european approaches to the field events to the jumps 00:15:01.211 --> 00:15:04.911 and the technical pieces there the more i appreciate it more the older i get 00:15:04.911 --> 00:15:09.171 just because it's so good uh relative to a lot of the stuff not that there's 00:15:09.171 --> 00:15:12.571 not great jump coaches over here, but on average, 00:15:12.851 --> 00:15:16.791 there's just such a, I think there's a generally greater mastery of those things. 00:15:17.331 --> 00:15:23.471 And I wanted to ask specifically with Sweden, the coaching tree of high jump 00:15:23.471 --> 00:15:26.131 and track and field in Sweden, you mentioned Patrick Soberg, 00:15:26.191 --> 00:15:31.711 and that had to be so inspiring as you were young, but there was a trainer, 00:15:32.051 --> 00:15:35.351 his name was, I'm going to butcher his last name, and I totally apologize to 00:15:35.351 --> 00:15:39.891 everyone in Sweden who's listening, but it was Vilho Nwassen or something like that. 00:15:40.451 --> 00:15:45.471 And I remember when I was in my first coaching job at age 25, 00:15:45.471 --> 00:15:50.311 I was looking at Yannick Tregaro's, like he posted some of his workouts on the 00:15:50.311 --> 00:15:53.831 internet and I knew he had been inspired by Vilho's work. 00:15:53.991 --> 00:15:58.191 And I was trying to translate them. The translation was not like it is today 00:15:58.191 --> 00:16:00.131 where you just get AI, can scan it all. 00:16:00.371 --> 00:16:04.691 But I was trying to like go through these workouts and try to see what these did. 00:16:04.811 --> 00:16:08.751 Like, you know, the theme is like strika or whatever. Like, what is that? 00:16:08.951 --> 00:16:11.811 And going through the exercises and trying to figure them out. 00:16:11.931 --> 00:16:14.191 So I'm very curious about 00:16:14.894 --> 00:16:17.634 Uh his like his training concepts or the 00:16:17.634 --> 00:16:23.094 history of his training concepts and what that general philosophy is like did 00:16:23.094 --> 00:16:26.654 you train with those concepts i think your dad trained you but were those concepts 00:16:26.654 --> 00:16:31.194 at play in that training and tell me a little bit about the history of high 00:16:31.194 --> 00:16:35.534 jump training in sweden and how it impacted your training uh as an athlete 00:16:35.534 --> 00:16:43.034 Well first of all i think you have to to apologize for the finnish listeners 00:16:43.034 --> 00:16:44.534 because he's he's from finland. 00:16:45.974 --> 00:16:48.734 It's a very very finnish name but yeah he 00:16:48.734 --> 00:16:52.134 came to sweden in the 70s he started coaching a group 00:16:52.134 --> 00:16:55.614 in guttenberg with patrick and some other young jumpers 00:16:55.614 --> 00:16:59.434 both long jumpers triple jumpers high jumpers and 00:16:59.434 --> 00:17:02.654 uh he he also had help from a guy 00:17:02.654 --> 00:17:06.174 from former jugoslavia named dragan tansic he 00:17:06.174 --> 00:17:08.794 was coaching Dietmar Mögenburg and Carlo Trernhardt and 00:17:08.794 --> 00:17:13.034 all these great German jumpers in the 1980s so in 00:17:13.034 --> 00:17:15.954 in 2004 if leading up 00:17:15.954 --> 00:17:18.974 to my Olympic title in Athens I was in a training camp 00:17:18.974 --> 00:17:22.354 in Estepona in southern Spain and there 00:17:22.354 --> 00:17:25.074 was this guy who came out watching when I was doing 00:17:25.074 --> 00:17:27.914 my plyometrics and he walked back into the gym and 00:17:27.914 --> 00:17:30.734 then he came out again watching again and back into 00:17:30.734 --> 00:17:33.514 the gym and in the end he came up to me and my 00:17:33.514 --> 00:17:36.194 father and he said oh I think it's it's nice that you do in 00:17:36.194 --> 00:17:39.114 my old exercises he said and that was dragan tanzic 00:17:39.114 --> 00:17:42.494 because we had learned all these plyometric stuff 00:17:42.494 --> 00:17:46.954 from bilio who had learned them from dragan like 20 00:17:46.954 --> 00:17:49.774 25 years earlier on but yeah 00:17:49.774 --> 00:17:52.934 i think bilio was 00:17:52.934 --> 00:17:57.814 very very good at inventing new exercises making training fun with different 00:17:57.814 --> 00:18:03.394 sort of plyometrics and a lot of jumping stuff both in high jumping and over 00:18:03.394 --> 00:18:05.934 the bar both with hurdles and boxers 00:18:05.934 --> 00:18:11.754 and stuff like that also very much coordination he wasn't as good with. 00:18:12.554 --> 00:18:16.834 Real strength training with the olympic lifts and so on but he was really really 00:18:16.834 --> 00:18:21.374 good and having a good eye for for jumping and who could be a good jumper and 00:18:21.374 --> 00:18:27.034 what do they need to do and as i say he made training fun and we we i learned 00:18:27.034 --> 00:18:31.534 a lot of uh of the stuff that i still do today as a coach from him. 00:18:32.874 --> 00:18:38.074 The first time I met him, I was 15. I just won the Swedish Youth Championships indoors. 00:18:38.594 --> 00:18:42.114 And he invited me and my coach for training in Gothenburg with him. 00:18:42.314 --> 00:18:47.334 So we went down there for half a year later, maybe we went down, 00:18:47.554 --> 00:18:49.574 had a training session for three, four hours. 00:18:50.474 --> 00:18:55.054 And those stuff that we did that day, I'm still doing with my jumpers today 00:18:55.054 --> 00:18:59.254 because, all right, they're very, very basic, but you need to do them because 00:18:59.254 --> 00:19:01.654 it's going to make you jump higher. It's as simple as that. 00:19:02.624 --> 00:19:06.084 Yeah, that's so interesting. I like that you mentioned, you know, 00:19:06.224 --> 00:19:11.684 Tanchit as well, Dragan Tanchik, because it's interesting what you find on YouTube. 00:19:11.984 --> 00:19:16.164 I don't even know how this popped across my YouTube feed the other day. 00:19:16.344 --> 00:19:19.644 It only had like a few hundred views, so it was not a popular video, 00:19:19.764 --> 00:19:25.564 but it was a 1980s, like a 1986 Dragan Tanchik, like two hours of him coaching 00:19:25.564 --> 00:19:28.784 high jumpers and going through all the plyometrics. 00:19:28.784 --> 00:19:33.004 Or I'm sure not all of them, but a lot of the plyometrics and a lot of his jumping technique. 00:19:33.184 --> 00:19:37.704 And I was just thinking to myself, this is so good. Like this is better than 00:19:37.704 --> 00:19:40.204 the vast majority of what I see today. 00:19:40.664 --> 00:19:43.844 And I, that's, I mean, I think that probably speaks to it. Like you're still 00:19:43.844 --> 00:19:46.084 doing and using those methods today. 00:19:46.304 --> 00:19:50.604 And I, it's interesting how we, it's almost like people, 00:19:50.704 --> 00:19:53.704 I mean, it's great to be creative, but I feel like so often we've 00:19:53.704 --> 00:19:56.364 lost some of the spirit of just how good some of 00:19:56.364 --> 00:19:59.504 that stuff was and it was also pretty simple it 00:19:59.504 --> 00:20:02.284 just seemed like a lot of like some of the things that i really 00:20:02.284 --> 00:20:05.004 appreciate that i don't see would just be like you're hopping on one 00:20:05.004 --> 00:20:07.964 leg and then there's a hurdle you jump over the hurdle and you continue 00:20:07.964 --> 00:20:11.224 hopping on one leg and there's another hurdle and you just keep you can 00:20:11.224 --> 00:20:14.164 just keep playing with that and working with that and building it 00:20:14.164 --> 00:20:17.604 up over time and it's the simplest thing but it's it's i 00:20:17.604 --> 00:20:20.504 don't know it's just also really and then integrate it but the perhaps even 00:20:20.504 --> 00:20:23.484 more than that is how we integrated that into the high jump approach 00:20:23.484 --> 00:20:26.984 so it's not just do plyometrics on the side and 00:20:26.984 --> 00:20:29.684 then that's that i mean and that's great but he would 00:20:29.684 --> 00:20:34.004 also have people doing bounding into high jump single leg hopping into high 00:20:34.004 --> 00:20:39.124 jump and i i just think it was yeah it was really to me that was just such good 00:20:39.124 --> 00:20:43.104 training and that i that's that was a two-hour video i definitely didn't get 00:20:43.104 --> 00:20:47.664 that much work done that day because i was just watching it and it was uh yeah 00:20:47.664 --> 00:20:49.644 i'll have to put it in the show notes of this. 00:20:50.464 --> 00:20:54.104 But yeah, so you mentioned the strength piece, though. And I do want to go back 00:20:54.104 --> 00:20:58.064 to the plyometrics. I probably said that too many times so far. I want to go back to this. 00:20:58.224 --> 00:21:02.264 But the strength piece I did, that was the early question I had for you, because I think 00:21:02.931 --> 00:21:06.991 I believe you didn't start like getting into strength training seriously from 00:21:06.991 --> 00:21:10.051 what I've heard until later in your career. 00:21:10.571 --> 00:21:14.791 And tell me a little bit about how that worked. Because people will talk and 00:21:14.791 --> 00:21:16.451 coaches will talk about, well, you know, 00:21:16.811 --> 00:21:21.071 don't strength train until this point and build just general good technique 00:21:21.071 --> 00:21:25.651 and the elasticity and the speed and then do the strength at this point. 00:21:26.591 --> 00:21:30.251 Yeah. When did you start really strength training and how did that impact you? 00:21:31.191 --> 00:21:34.031 Yeah what i mean when i'm talking about 00:21:34.031 --> 00:21:36.891 strength training that's weightlifting that's like half squat 00:21:36.891 --> 00:21:40.031 deep snatch cleanse whatever 00:21:40.031 --> 00:21:43.191 i mean plyometric is also strength training 00:21:43.191 --> 00:21:50.511 but talking about weightlifting i started when i was 19 almost 20 but i i was 00:21:50.511 --> 00:21:56.331 kind of strong already before so i i had the feeling that i didn't really need 00:21:56.331 --> 00:22:01.071 to do it and also will you supported that he said that you don't have to start 00:22:01.071 --> 00:22:02.711 already you can start later on, 00:22:04.171 --> 00:22:12.091 but when I started high school when I was 16 we had a coach there who really really wanted us to 00:22:12.311 --> 00:22:18.091 do weightlifting but I just said I'm not I'm following my own plan and as long 00:22:18.091 --> 00:22:21.851 as I was jumping highest of the high school kids that was okay they couldn't 00:22:21.851 --> 00:22:24.671 couldn't argue so much but yeah I, 00:22:27.471 --> 00:22:33.031 I mean, I still did that for almost 15 years as a professional high jumper. 00:22:33.271 --> 00:22:36.191 So you don't have to start when you're 12 or 13, I think. 00:22:36.671 --> 00:22:40.551 But as you say, I think you should get your technique working. 00:22:40.551 --> 00:22:44.391 There are so many skills that you could work on in the younger age. 00:22:45.211 --> 00:22:50.411 And then you put on strength, the weightlifting, and then you hopefully get 00:22:50.411 --> 00:22:53.271 an effect of that when you're like leaving the junior years. 00:22:54.051 --> 00:22:57.751 Yeah yeah your your experience it reminds 00:22:57.751 --> 00:23:00.551 me a little bit about well kim collins who was 00:23:00.551 --> 00:23:03.191 ran i think 9.99 in the 00:23:03.191 --> 00:23:06.231 100 or something like that at age 40 and he 00:23:06.231 --> 00:23:09.711 didn't start lifting i think until he was like 33 or 00:23:09.711 --> 00:23:12.731 34 it's funny to think about that that's 00:23:12.731 --> 00:23:15.511 amazing yeah but i think it actually it did i 00:23:15.511 --> 00:23:19.131 think it was a factor that pushed him from like 10 00:23:19.131 --> 00:23:24.571 1 or 10 0 5 or whatever he was at 10.01 to just you know dipping under later 00:23:24.571 --> 00:23:29.311 but for you did it give you I mean obviously at a that you know that 18 to 20 00:23:29.311 --> 00:23:34.671 to 25 you're still going to be on the way up but do you feel like that was something 00:23:34.671 --> 00:23:38.891 that gave your system a boost from where it was yeah yeah 00:23:38.891 --> 00:23:41.771 I think so I I jumped to 21 00:23:41.771 --> 00:23:44.711 at the age of 19 to 18 00:23:44.711 --> 00:23:47.471 the year before to 14 the year before that so I mean 00:23:47.471 --> 00:23:50.831 i increased a few centimeters each year but then 00:23:50.831 --> 00:23:54.871 starting lifting in the fall of 00:23:54.871 --> 00:23:58.471 1995 when i was 19 one and 00:23:58.471 --> 00:24:01.251 a half years later i jumped 230 for the first time so i think 00:24:01.251 --> 00:24:04.331 that i when i get used to it the first six 00:24:04.331 --> 00:24:07.531 seven months that was rough because i i got muscles 00:24:07.531 --> 00:24:12.151 that i couldn't control i got so much stronger and slower and just felt heavy 00:24:12.151 --> 00:24:17.631 and everything but after i mean six seven eight months but i could get control 00:24:17.631 --> 00:24:21.811 of everything then i really think that it helped me to jump higher and also 00:24:21.811 --> 00:24:25.471 to get stable on higher heights i could do them more often. 00:24:25.471 --> 00:24:33.031 Yeah i i agree i i my experience was definitely similar uh when i started like 00:24:33.031 --> 00:24:38.111 really substantially strength training the the consistency got so after that 00:24:38.111 --> 00:24:42.211 initial period like you said the consistency got a lot better 00:24:42.791 --> 00:24:46.191 before that you said you obviously were doing a lot of plyometric exercises 00:24:46.191 --> 00:24:49.231 before that point when you started the olympic lifting and the heavier work 00:24:49.231 --> 00:24:53.611 were you doing i imagine you're doing like body weight training or or lighter 00:24:53.611 --> 00:24:57.411 more remedial exercises at that along with the plyometrics up until then 00:24:59.375 --> 00:25:03.235 Yeah, yeah. I mean, you do this sort of circular training. 00:25:03.455 --> 00:25:09.655 You do the sit-ups, the push-ups, the whatever you call it in English. You know what I mean? 00:25:09.975 --> 00:25:12.655 Yeah, yeah. That kind of stuff. Yeah. General strength. Yeah. 00:25:13.235 --> 00:25:17.555 And also bounding, standing five steps, standing 10 steps. 00:25:18.375 --> 00:25:23.575 Of course, a lot of drills with the hurdles and stuff like that. But yeah. 00:25:24.115 --> 00:25:27.295 And high jumping. A lot of high jumping. Everything. All the time. 00:25:27.295 --> 00:25:31.675 Yeah yeah for yeah what kind of volumes were you doing throughout your career 00:25:31.675 --> 00:25:37.135 like like younger years like how often a week versus once you got we're jumping 00:25:37.135 --> 00:25:41.035 higher and you had more explosive capacity what was the type of volume that 00:25:41.035 --> 00:25:42.895 you were doing just for actual high jump training 00:25:44.575 --> 00:25:51.515 I would usually high jumping twice a week during training seasons i mean during the, 00:25:52.255 --> 00:25:56.015 competitive season i wasn't jump i was probably jumping once a week and then 00:25:56.015 --> 00:26:00.935 competition so i was twice a week but once in training and when it comes to 00:26:00.935 --> 00:26:05.975 number of jumps i mean i could probably do 40 or 50 jumps from full approach in. 00:26:05.975 --> 00:26:07.295 Training wow if 00:26:07.295 --> 00:26:14.335 I really really really wanted to jump a certain height i jumped until i cleared it for good and for bad. 00:26:14.335 --> 00:26:17.235 Yeah yeah there's there's definitely both 00:26:17.235 --> 00:26:20.095 sides of that without question i i think about that a 00:26:20.095 --> 00:26:23.315 lot is you know that idea of you know 00:26:23.315 --> 00:26:26.675 only doing so many jumps that you know you're going to feel good like in a few 00:26:26.675 --> 00:26:30.795 days like you don't like tony holler says burn the steak like you know but then 00:26:30.795 --> 00:26:35.415 again there's having driven athletes i think that's something i consider a lot 00:26:35.415 --> 00:26:38.935 when i have a really driven athlete who will get really irritated when they 00:26:38.935 --> 00:26:42.935 don't clear that bar on the day there's that that dance if there's 00:26:42.935 --> 00:26:45.075 A competition in three days coming up then. 00:26:45.075 --> 00:26:46.035 You shouldn't 00:26:46.035 --> 00:26:49.195 Do 50 jumps in training but if there You're on a competition for two or three 00:26:49.195 --> 00:26:51.835 weeks. Keep on going then if you really want to. 00:26:52.335 --> 00:26:52.575 Yeah. 00:26:53.254 --> 00:26:56.734 Yeah. In terms of the plyometric volume of what you did, you mentioned early 00:26:56.734 --> 00:26:59.334 in the show about just building that up slowly over time. 00:26:59.654 --> 00:27:01.994 And that's one of those things that I think a lot of people, 00:27:02.274 --> 00:27:07.354 I know myself, I watched that documentary with yourself and Donald Thomas. 00:27:07.554 --> 00:27:12.174 And I actually jumped against Donald like 20 years ago, but just when he first 00:27:12.174 --> 00:27:17.054 started and he had no idea he was sitting over the bar and he still beat me. 00:27:18.934 --> 00:27:20.634 So that was a good memory. 00:27:20.634 --> 00:27:21.654 And he's still around. 00:27:21.894 --> 00:27:26.694 Yeah, his longevity is amazing. I'm blown away by that. Yeah, 00:27:26.694 --> 00:27:28.634 it is. Yeah, I'm absolutely blown away. 00:27:28.674 --> 00:27:33.794 So am I. I mean, he came out of nowhere in the 2006, 2007 seasons, 00:27:33.814 --> 00:27:35.554 and I mean, he's still around. 00:27:35.794 --> 00:27:38.994 Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting too. 00:27:39.134 --> 00:27:43.954 I wonder, sometimes I wonder as well, maybe this is a different conversation, 00:27:44.234 --> 00:27:47.134