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Hey humans. How's it going?
Susan, Ruth here. Thanks.

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Listening to another episode
of Hey Human Podcast.

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This is episode 363,

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and I had a conversation
with George Gallo,

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the one and only George is a
producer, screenwriter, and director.

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I think of bad boys, middle Men, one
of my personal favorites, midnight Run,

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and dozens of other films.

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He's also an impressionist painter
and exceptional one I might add.

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And he is a musician. I interviewed
George twice, once in 2021,

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and again, recently in 2023. Uh,

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the first time was in anticipation
of a film that he did called

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The Comeback Trail, but it was
plagued by a distribution issues.

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And so I,

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I was waiting for the film to come
out in America and I thought, oh,

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I'll just wait for that, you know,

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right before that to put out the show
and just all this stuff happened,

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so didn't end up doing that. And
I contacted him, I said, Hey,

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do you mind if we talk again, cuz
there's more questions I have,

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I wanna dig in a little deeper. And
he's so kind with his time and said yes.

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And the second time we
chatted, uh, it was great.

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We talked about philosophy and
art and music and really dug in.

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We even talked about his, uh,
love story with his wife Julie.

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And I love that cuz I love asking
people about their love stories. Anyway,

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I think you're gonna dig this
one. I am delighted by George.

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He and I actually have a lot in common
with the different things that draw our

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artistic, uh, desires and what sparks us.

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So I had a blast chatting
with him. Okay, check out,

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hey human podcast.com for links and
to learn about my guests in the show,

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check out Susan ruth.com to learn more
about me and my other artistic endeavors.

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Follow Susan Ruth. And hey,
human podcast on social media.

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You can find my records.
Yes, records, album, CDs,

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whatever you wanna call it. Downloads
on Spotify, apple music, Amazon music,

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or wherever you get your music.
Look for my most recent record.

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All I ever wanted was everything, but
there's others too. Surfacing to Breathe.

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How to Say Goodbye, there's an
ep, there's all sorts of stuff.

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Check out my relationships and sex
show with sexologist and healthcare

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practitioner, Mara Edelman, that's
on YouTube under Are We There yet?

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Podcast show and rate review
and subscribe to, Hey,

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human podcast on iTunes, Spotify,
really anywhere you get your podcasts,

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it's probably there, <laugh>. Check
it out, rate it, and review it.

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It's very helpful and I appreciate it.
All right, thank you for listening.

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Be well. Be kind,

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be love and bloom where
you're planted. Yeah.

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All right, here we go. George
Gallo, welcome to Hey Human.

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Hey, good to be here. You
only be called Susan or Suzy,

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or what do you like what,
what do I call Susan?

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Susan, I like to be called. Yeah,
I, that's, that's my preference for.

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Sure. Okay. You got it. Susan.

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<Laugh>. Thank you. I never
felt like a sue or a Suzy,

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and I barely feel like a Susan. So.

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That's interesting cuz I, I,
you know, obviously I've been,

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my name is George my whole life, but
I never really related to that either,

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you know, I mean, like, that's the
name they get. It's my, I'm a junior,

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that was my father's name. So, uh.

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That's, I always wonder about that with
juniors and thirds and fourth if they,

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there's an identity loss in that at all.

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Yeah, it's an interesting question. I
don't know. Maybe perhaps to some degree,

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but, uh, that happens a lot in Italian
families. They get the dad's name,

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you know, I, I know, I know Jews
skip a generation, right? Mm-hmm.

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<affirmative>, but Italians, uh,
they don't do that. So there,

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there were a lot of juniors in my family.

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Yeah.

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The Jews are not supposed to name anyone
after anyone that is still living.

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Still.

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Still a living. Yes. Yeah,
yeah, that's true. Yeah.

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Yeah. Which is, yes, there
are workarounds. For example,

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my name's Susan means
Lily of God and Hebrew.

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And so if I were to have a daughter,
I could name her Lily. And it's,

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it's like naming her Susan, but not.

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Got it.

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So within the Jewish tradition,

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you'll find a lot of Susan Lilly
who says they go down the line.

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Well, my father came from a
family of 13 kids. Whoa. So yeah,

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they were busy. The, the,
those, uh, those Italians.

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But my father was the second youngest kid.

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And, uh, I think they'd run outta names,
uh, because all the names were Italian.

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And George is not really
an Italian name. And my,

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my father was born very close to,
I think it was Abraham Lincoln.

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I think he was born like within a day
or two of Abraham Lincoln's birthday.

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And so my grandfather, Vito,
that's a very Italian name,

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wanted to name my father Abraham,

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but I think my grandmother said, no way.

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So then George for George
Washington. And so that's, uh,

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because that was a few days also within.

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And so that's how I ended
up with George. But, uh.

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My father's real name is
Abraham, actually. Is.

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That right?

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Yeah.

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Abraham's a beautiful name, I guess,
in an Italian fa Abraham Gallo.

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That's an interesting name. That
is sort of like Quentin Tarantino.

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Like Quentin is not a really
an Italian name that I'm.

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Aware of. I was wondering if, is that
his real name or is that a stage?

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It sure sounds like a stage name and
Yeah, it does. And if, and if not,

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he was destined for stardom.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a, not to
go too far off track, but Well, go.

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Ahead.

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A friend of mine, uh, somehow
accidentally, he got, uh,

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one tickets. And within the
tickets were these invitations to,

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uh, I believe it was a Golden Globes
ex. The, somehow it got mixed in,

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it was probably meant for someone else.

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And so he went with a friend
of his to the, to this thing,

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and they're sitting at the table trying
not to have any attention beyond them.

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You know, they're eating their chicken
or whatever, just trying to lay low.

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And this man came up and sat down
and started chatting with them.

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And he said, Hey, can I, I've got, and
he had a script on him, apparently,

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and he gave them to read the Kill
Bill script. It was Quin Tarantino.

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I wanna know what they thought.
So it was very surreal.

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That's hysterical.

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Yeah. And they said he was very nice,
very chatty, and, you know, pretty wild.

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Yeah. He lives up the street from me.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah. I don't see him
very often, but, you know.

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Well, okay. Let's get into you. You.

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Alright? What do you want now?

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Oh, how many siblings did you have? If.

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Your me, just me. I'm an only child.

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Whoa. Did you have to,

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did your parents have to sign a
contract with the Pope to <laugh>?

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Um, well, my father, my father
got married very late in life and,

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and so did my mother. So I think, uh,
I think they barely squeezed one out.

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Yeah.

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Cuz that's not so very common in a
Catholic fa I'm assuming you're Catholic.

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Yeah, yeah. Um, no, it, uh, but
like I say, my dad basically, uh,

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lived through the Depression and then
fought in the Second World War by the time

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he got back, you know, I think he
was in his late thirties already,

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and he didn't get married until
somewhere in his early forties.

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And then my mom was also, I think
mid thirties when she had me,

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which is very late back then,
mid to late thirties. So yeah.

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Yeah. Practically an old
maid for God's sake. Yeah.

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Pretty much. Yeah. And she might, my,
I'm half German, can't tell from the,

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the radio obviously, but I'm,
I'm very tall. And, uh, so the,

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the height came from my
mom's side of the family.

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Interesting. Did your father,
was he very present or did the,

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being in the war and what a war, you know,

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did that distance him
from the family at all?

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No, not, no. I mean, uh, I mean,
it's very interesting in that,

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in my family in particular,
most of them didn't have kids.

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It's really interesting. Aunt Laura
had my, my father's sister had one kid,

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but he, my uncle Frank fought in the war,

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so he didn't get back to late Aunt
Laura. And Dominic was also in the Navy.

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So, and then he stayed till a few years
after the war. By the time he came back,

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they didn't have kids. My Aunt Rose, uh,

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was in love with a pilot
who died during the war.

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And so she never got married
after that. She felt Deloy to him.

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And, uh, yeah, she lived to me like
in her nineties, and she lived alone.

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And I asked her a couple times and she
said, no, my heart belonged to that man.

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And that was it.

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Oh God, that breaks my heart.

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Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of people in my
family did not have children. Do you have.

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Kids?

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No, and I don't have any war stories
either. We just didn't have kids.

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Yeah.

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No. With your wife. Uh, yeah, I have
a few more stories with her, but, uh,

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<laugh>.

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But Julie, that's Julie in the
background for everybody wondering.

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Um, no, it just never happened, you
know, and we were, I don't know,

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we just maybe were kids too, maybe too
much for children ourselves, you know,

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but, uh, animals lots. We, but we've
saved maybe thousands of animals. <laugh>.

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Yeah. How many cats doing with
the 4th of July firework? Well.

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We, uh, our cats, we only have one
kitty cat right now. The great princess,

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Sophie Renee. Oh, I'm sorry.
We had eight at one point.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yeah. We were saving everything in
the neighborhood. The word got out,

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you feed one cat. Yeah.
And then you let them in,

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then the word gets out all
over the neighborhood. It's,
it's suddenly they say,

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Hey, up to that house over there, they'll
feed you. They'll take you in. Yeah.

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So.

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Yeah, there's a top cat
that's getting the word out.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah. Do you remember
that cartoon Top cat.

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Top cat? Yes. The, the individual leader
of the gang, right? Yeah. Da da da,

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ta da. He's an, they.

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Had, yeah, had a great song.

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Most tip. Top, top Cat.

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Yeah. Great song. That's
how Oldie, yeah. Uh,

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childhood was good. Then you
grew up on the East Coast?

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Yeah, east coast, yeah. Portchester,
New York, Westchester County. Uh,

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my father was from the Bronx, so
he, he moved up to Portchester, uh,

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where he met my mom. And, uh, yeah,

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grew up in Westchester County
in Portchester, which was
sort of an interesting,

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it's sort of a, uh, Westchester
County's a wealthy county,

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but Portchester was sort of a,

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a very working class place with a lot
of factories. So it was, it was, uh,

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in between two very wealthy towns, but
Portchester itself was a little more, uh,

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certainly a working class place. Uh,
yeah, it was a great childhood. I mean,

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I have a lot of fond memories of it.
You know, I, I, uh, um, you know, I,

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if I go back, I haven't been back now in
about five years, but I get choked up,

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you know, when I walk, uh, walk
around those old streets, you know.

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It's also quite beautiful.

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I have, I, for me, it, look, I love the
East coast. It's, it's, it's, I just do,

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I, I, where are you,
where are you right now?

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I'm in Los Angeles.

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You are? Well, me too. I,

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I sometimes miss it
tremendously, like, uh,

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like a big hole in my heart almost
for it, you know? It's so beautiful.

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I love the seasons. I love what
they do to your body, you know,

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I love the feeling of springtime
and your body a reawakening,

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and then going through the summer,
and then you feel the fall coming,

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and then you feel like the earth
going back to sleep, you know?

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And then you have the winter,
which is wonderful. And I, I love,

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you know, I, you know, the cold and
I, I, and I just, all those changes,

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I really love them because you, I feel,

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you feel a lot more connected to the
earth in a lot of ways. I mean, I look,

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again, I don't,

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I'm not putting down la but it's basically
78 degrees all the time, and sunny,

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which I guess is not a
terrible thing. <laugh>,

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especially if you like to be outdoors and
play golf or tennis or whatever you're

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doing. But I do miss, I do miss those
smells too, if you're from the east, the,

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the way the spring used to smell
when all the buds started to pop and,

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and the autumn had that wonderful
just smell to it in the,

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I don't know, I just,
it is pretty special.

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I grew up in the Pacific Northwest,

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so I get the whole idea of
the smells related to seasons.

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Where, where in the Pacific Northwest.

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Seattle, basically. Seattle.

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00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:13,980
Seattle's pretty, yeah, pretty. We,
yeah, I like Seattle a lot. And then we,

217
00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:15,980
we went to a place called
Woodby Island. Yeah.

218
00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:16,570
Yeah.

219
00:12:16,570 --> 00:12:20,500
Yeah, yeah. We have a, a friend
of ours had a place there and, uh,

220
00:12:21,410 --> 00:12:24,540
just, just wonderful. We walked
along the, the water all the time.

221
00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:27,460
There were these jets flying over,
landing all the time. There's a,

222
00:12:27,530 --> 00:12:29,180
some sort of air base there or something.

223
00:12:29,250 --> 00:12:31,020
Yeah, there's a naval
base in Woodby Island.

224
00:12:31,610 --> 00:12:32,140
Yeah. Yeah.

225
00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:35,460
Be quiet for about 10
minutes and somebody's come
screaming over your head. And.

226
00:12:35,610 --> 00:12:40,540
Yeah, there's a lot of little islands
that go all around the sound and, uh,

227
00:12:40,540 --> 00:12:42,860
really lovely, really
beautiful. And of course,

228
00:12:42,890 --> 00:12:47,860
Pacific Northwest's got a rainforest and
lots of great pine trees and evergreens.

229
00:12:47,860 --> 00:12:51,060
And Oh, no, it's gorgeous. I'm also a
landscape painter, you know? Yeah. So I,

230
00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:55,940
I, I love being in nature,
just quiet with a paintbrush.

231
00:12:55,940 --> 00:12:57,900
That's really my true love, you know?

232
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,100
That's what you started in the creative
arts, that was your beginnings.

233
00:13:01,170 --> 00:13:04,460
Yeah, that was, it started it out
painting. And then, you know, it's funny,

234
00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:05,700
I was doing everything at once.

235
00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:09,100
I was also playing like every musical
instrument I could get my hands on.

236
00:13:10,620 --> 00:13:15,340
I was making movies, uh, with a super
eight camera and a 16 millimeter camera.

237
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:18,660
I couldn't figure out what I wanted to
be when I grew up, you know, I just,

238
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:24,020
so I was doing everything at once
and, you know, uh, and then, uh,

239
00:13:24,460 --> 00:13:29,340
I guess the movie sort of took over
because I love the idea of comedy

240
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:33,580
and drama, and it is a
visual medium, you know?

241
00:13:33,580 --> 00:13:36,100
So I could use whatever I
knew about music and, and,

242
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,340
and visuals in order to make movies.

243
00:13:38,890 --> 00:13:42,300
Well, I think all those art forms are
storytelling, art forms. I tell you,

244
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,460
I'm a painter as well. And a
summary, are you? Yeah. And I,

245
00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:47,980
I always say all of it is storytelling.

246
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,500
That's all it is.

247
00:13:49,850 --> 00:13:50,683
Yeah.

248
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:52,290
Yes. You're 100% correct.

249
00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:55,210
And you are, you're an impressionist.

250
00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,850
Yeah, I would say I'm an impressionist.
Yeah. It's certainly, uh, I,

251
00:14:00,930 --> 00:14:04,770
I studied with a, a
Russian, uh, uh, teacher.

252
00:14:04,850 --> 00:14:08,130
I was his apprentice for a few
years. And, uh, yeah, he was a,

253
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:12,370
one of those real hardcore Russian
impressionists, you know, studied in, uh,

254
00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:17,900
studied in Moscow, Eastern
Europe. And, uh, yeah, I just,

255
00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:20,580
there's something I I love
about that directness, you know,

256
00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:23,220
just the paint in the, just, I just,

257
00:14:23,220 --> 00:14:28,020
to me it's ju it's breathtaking
and to do so much with like,

258
00:14:28,020 --> 00:14:32,540
an economy of, of means, you know, it's,
it's not labored painting. It's more,

259
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,820
uh, reactionary painting, you know? So,
uh, that's, that's what I love about it,

260
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:38,960
you know.

261
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,100
And oil is, it's a lesson in patience
as well. If you were taught by a rush,

262
00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:44,420
and I assume you're doing oils.

263
00:14:44,770 --> 00:14:47,180
Yeah, we were, yeah. They're
all oils. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

264
00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:50,820
Probably is my favorite thing
to do because with painting it,

265
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,220
it is final in that I don't need
to get a permission from anyone.

266
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,740
Hey, I'm gonna put some blue over here.
Is that okay with the committee <laugh>?

267
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,740
You know, and you could just work at the
speed of thought, you know, uh, that,

268
00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:06,100
that's the fun part of painting
for me. Whereas a movie,

269
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,780
you can have an idea and
10 years down the road,

270
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,300
you're still hoping it
gets made. You know, it,

271
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:16,540
sometimes it's hard to grow as a filmmaker
if you're always stymied, you know,

272
00:15:16,540 --> 00:15:19,100
if you, if you wanna do something
really, really bad. I mean,

273
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:20,380
like with the movie I just did,

274
00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:24,660
Josh and I wrote that screenplay a
dozen years ago, and it, you know,

275
00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:26,540
then when it started to come back to life,

276
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,780
you almost forget why you wanted to
make it in the first place. I mean,

277
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,780
are you talking about
the comeback trail? Yeah.

278
00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:33,540
Because it comes back to you eventually,

279
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:37,100
and then you get reignited you get
excited. But, you know, it was,

280
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,860
it was something, I, I mean, the whole
history of the Comeback Trail I is,

281
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,180
is sort of crazy in that it
goes back to my high school days

282
00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:49,940
actually, where the idea
first sort of came to me. Uh,

283
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,340
the comeback trail happened because I
was making movies already when I was 18,

284
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:54,740
and with,

285
00:15:54,740 --> 00:15:59,540
with a super eight cam was
a G a F 8 0 5 sound camera.

286
00:15:59,780 --> 00:16:04,460
I still remember it. I used to buy the
Kodachrome 40 in the little black case,

287
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,940
and you'd flip open the case and you'd
put it in and close the case, and,

288
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,260
and it had a little microphone and
you could actually record sound.

289
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,220
And I would talk all my friends into
making these movies with me. Yeah.

290
00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:19,220
So anyway, a a bunch of buddies, those
same guys I was making movies with,

291
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:22,820
we went to a comic book convention
in New York City at a hotel,

292
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:25,820
and I ended up leaving the convention,

293
00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:27,940
and I was wandering around
the lobby of the hotel,

294
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,500
and I heard a 16 millimeter
projector rattling away in a room,

295
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,220
in a conference room. And I opened
the door and there were like, about,

296
00:16:35,540 --> 00:16:38,220
I don't know, I'd say about a dozen
people in the room. And I threw,

297
00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:40,780
was a bunch of folding
chairs. So I, of course,

298
00:16:40,780 --> 00:16:44,060
invited myself in and nobody stopped me.

299
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,900
And I sat and I was watching the 16
millimeter print of an unfinished movie,

300
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,940
and it still had all the splice marks in
it and everything, and, and raw sound.

301
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,740
And it was a movie called The Comeback
Trail with Buster Crab and, uh,

302
00:16:58,750 --> 00:17:01,420
Chuck McCann. And it was, uh,

303
00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:04,220
a guy there by the name of Harry
Herwitz who had made the movie,

304
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,420
but they were just looking
at pieces of the movie.

305
00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:10,180
They never really finished it.
And the movie was pretty crude.

306
00:17:11,470 --> 00:17:14,730
And I mean, and the people involved
in it certainly would admit to that,

307
00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:16,690
you know, they were
making it on a shoestring.

308
00:17:17,230 --> 00:17:20,970
But the idea that they were trying to
kill an actor and a stunt to collect the

309
00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:22,770
insurance, I just thought was hysterical.

310
00:17:23,830 --> 00:17:27,850
And I never forgot that idea.
And I thought about it for years.

311
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:32,250
And then I moved to Los Angeles
and I started selling screenplays.

312
00:17:32,250 --> 00:17:35,530
And I started to get a career as a
writer and then as a writer director.

313
00:17:36,670 --> 00:17:39,690
And for years, I tried to find
their rights to the Comeback Trail,

314
00:17:39,690 --> 00:17:43,370
and I could never find them because the
movie was officially never released.

315
00:17:43,470 --> 00:17:46,770
And I would have lawyers looking
into it, and they'd say, well,

316
00:17:46,770 --> 00:17:50,940
they could track it only so far,
but Harry Hurwitz had passed away.

317
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,900
So I was just, I, I was
just, didn't know what to do.

318
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:59,540
And then my assistant at the time was
my assistant, became my writing partner.

319
00:18:00,250 --> 00:18:03,940
Josh came to work for me, Josh
Poder. And then I would always,

320
00:18:03,940 --> 00:18:06,900
every once in a while I bring up the
comeback trail and how I really wanted to

321
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:10,340
make this movie. And to the
point where I think he was like,

322
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:12,540
maybe you oughta stop thinking about this,

323
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,300
cuz it's just one of those crazy things
that's just gonna haunt you to your

324
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:20,110
grave. It's never gonna
happen. And then by chance,

325
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:23,470
15 years ago, I was asked to do a,

326
00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:27,720
there was a screening of
Midnight Run, uh, at, uh,

327
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:32,640
Phil Rosenthal's house, and I was asked
to speak at it. So it was great. He,

328
00:18:32,670 --> 00:18:35,360
Phil used, Phil had this beautiful
screening room in his house.

329
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:38,920
They have all these people over
and surf pizza to everybody.

330
00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:42,320
And so I became part of
that film, uh, group,

331
00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:46,240
and they ran movies and I would go watch
them once in a while. But like I said,

332
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,200
I was gonna speak after midnight
Run was, was over. And, uh,

333
00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:53,800
as I was going in there, maybe
about 50, 60 people there,

334
00:18:54,940 --> 00:18:59,560
as I was going in, this lovely
woman comes up to me and says, uh,

335
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,920
are you George Gallo? And
I said, yeah. And she said,

336
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,360
I just wanna let you know this was my
husband's favorite movie. And I said,

337
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:13,250
that's so sweet, thank you. And I said,
uh, uh, what's your name? And she said,

338
00:19:13,310 --> 00:19:17,530
joy Hurwitz. And I said, are you in any
relation to Harry Hurwitz? And she said,

339
00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:22,450
Harry was my husband. And
I was like, oh my God. I,

340
00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:24,810
I said, I said, uh, I,

341
00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:28,330
I wanna talk to you about this movie
he did called The Comeback Trail.

342
00:19:28,430 --> 00:19:32,330
And she went the Comeback Trail.
How do you know about that? Like,

343
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:35,250
12 people saw that movie,
it was never released.

344
00:19:35,790 --> 00:19:39,890
And I told her the story I just told you,
I said, I saw a very early cut of it.

345
00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:45,200
And I said, it's, I've always wanted to
take that idea and remake that movie.

346
00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:49,680
And she said, I, so I said to her, who
owns the rights? And she said, I do.

347
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,780
And I said, okay, do you want to
partner up with me? And she said, sure,

348
00:19:53,780 --> 00:19:56,580
partner. So that was 15 years ago. Whoa.

349
00:19:57,610 --> 00:19:59,540
Talk about divine intervention.

350
00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:01,060
I know really is.

351
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,180
And then so Josh and I wrote various
drafts of it and it made us laugh

352
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,020
and it made my wife laugh. But you never
know. Like, are you afraid? You know,

353
00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:13,620
does your wife just think it's funny cuz
it's you and she already knows you're

354
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:17,820
an idiot. So she's just laughing
at your jokes or, and then Josh is,

355
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,660
is Josh so emotionally invested in it
that he just thinks it's funny cause he

356
00:20:21,660 --> 00:20:24,540
co-wrote. But I would give it to
friends and they'd say, George,

357
00:20:24,540 --> 00:20:27,980
this is hysterical. You know, and
they'd all say the same thing.

358
00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:31,700
You're never gonna get it made though,
because it's a movie about Hollywood.

359
00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:33,700
It's a movie about making a movie.

360
00:20:34,370 --> 00:20:38,220
It's a movie about producers of all things
they're making are Western and nobody

361
00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:39,580
makes Westerns anymore.

362
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,500
So it's just check the boxes of all the
reasons why no one's ever gonna make it.

363
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,300
And I was thinking, yeah, but
how about all the reasons?

364
00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:50,940
Maybe all in one movie makes it unique
because, you know, you, you wouldn't,

365
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,860
you know, do 12 things wrong. But
anyway, I gave it, like I said,

366
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:59,300
I tried to go the normal
studio route and same thing.

367
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:04,260
Couldn't stop Laughing Pass, you know?
So it was very, very frustrating.

368
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,420
And then again, divine Intervention.

369
00:21:07,930 --> 00:21:11,220
This movie was obviously,
you know, destined to happen.

370
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:16,060
Robert De Niro calls me up
and we talk from time to time,

371
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:16,620
but you know,

372
00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:19,900
sometimes we talk a lot and then
sometimes we don't talk for a few years.

373
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,780
But he called me up out of the blue
and he said, Georgie, it's Bob. I went,

374
00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:28,900
Hey Bob, you know, what a surprise,
you know? And he said, uh,

375
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:34,060
do you have anything funny? And I
said, yeah, well, why do you ask?

376
00:21:34,060 --> 00:21:34,660
He goes, well,

377
00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:39,420
I just did the Irishman and I
played this sort of dark psychopath

378
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,460
for eight months and I got a
cleanse, the palette, you know,

379
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:47,740
I gotta do something like really
just silly. And I says, man,

380
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:52,020
I've got something that's almost like
three stooges silly. And he said,

381
00:21:52,020 --> 00:21:55,500
send it to me. So I sent it to him
and two days later he called me back,

382
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:59,700
he goes, this is hysterical. How come
nobody's making this? I said, man,

383
00:21:59,820 --> 00:22:03,180
I don't know. I said, do you wanna
do it with me? And he goes, I'm in.

384
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,900
And that was how it got made. And they
got, after that I called Morgan Freeman,

385
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,660
who I knew very well, cuz I did two
movies with him. And then I called, uh,

386
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,980
Bob, called Tommy Lee Jones,
cuz they know each other.

387
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,900
And that's sort of how it happened.

388
00:22:19,570 --> 00:22:24,100
When you have screenwriters
who have a huge track record.

389
00:22:24,420 --> 00:22:28,980
I mean, your <laugh> your
CV is long, and that,

390
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:33,900
that until a big name is attached
to it, it still doesn't matter what.

391
00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:35,180
That just blows my mind.

392
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,540
No, it doesn't matter. And it's really,
really a, a amazing, you know, it,

393
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,940
it doesn't matter, uh,

394
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,820
it might get me in the
door in that people love

395
00:22:47,220 --> 00:22:49,980
Midnight Run or Bad Boys or, you know,

396
00:22:49,980 --> 00:22:51,860
some of the movies that
I've done that have written.

397
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,860
So people always say
they're excited to read,

398
00:22:55,790 --> 00:22:59,730
but really until there's a big
piece of talent attached, you know,

399
00:22:59,830 --> 00:23:04,210
unless it's something so
of that moment, you know,

400
00:23:04,210 --> 00:23:07,530
like the way a lot of studios
work is, they don't really,

401
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,010
it's not the way it used to be. You know?

402
00:23:11,030 --> 00:23:14,530
And I've been around
decades now doing this.

403
00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:16,510
When I started,

404
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,550
thankfully the studios were always
interested in Gimme the New Idea,

405
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,150
gimme the New Idea, pitch me something
new, pitch me something new. And for me,

406
00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:28,230
that was like music to my ears.

407
00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:32,230
So like The Midnight Run or Wise Guys
or Bad Boys, those were all ideas.

408
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,110
Ideas I had, I came up with, you know,

409
00:23:36,490 --> 00:23:38,270
and today that's much more,

410
00:23:38,270 --> 00:23:42,430
more difficult now it's like they want
something that was based on a hit movie

411
00:23:42,860 --> 00:23:47,860
that was also based on a hit TV show
that was based on a hit novel that was

412
00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:52,380
based on a hit idea that
was, uh, a huge hit in,

413
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,060
in China or, or Asia or India or,

414
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,940
so they don't want anything new.
They're not interested in it or based,

415
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,900
or comic books which have
millions of eyeballs. You know,

416
00:24:04,050 --> 00:24:08,180
this idea of the newer, the idea of
the original screenplay, you know, has,

417
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,020
has gone the way of the, of the,
uh, you know, of I would say of the,

418
00:24:12,020 --> 00:24:14,940
of the blacksmith and the,
uh, you name it, you know,

419
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:19,100
think of some 18th century invention,
the cotton gin. I don't know, you know,

420
00:24:19,460 --> 00:24:22,340
wherever, you know, it's really,
there's just very little interest in it.

421
00:24:22,420 --> 00:24:24,940
Now, I don't understand regurgitation,

422
00:24:25,010 --> 00:24:29,140
politic is so bizarre
to me. And what a loss,

423
00:24:29,290 --> 00:24:31,900
what a what a great
loss for art in general.

424
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,460
Yes, I understand both sides of it.
I understand on a commercial level,

425
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:39,400
but he's already the problem.
In my first sentence,

426
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:45,200
I understand if you wanna spend
250 million just to make something

427
00:24:45,980 --> 00:24:49,360
and then an additional two 50 to three 50,

428
00:24:50,110 --> 00:24:52,600
400 million to market it,

429
00:24:53,060 --> 00:24:57,760
you're in for $700 million and
you better hope that somebody

430
00:24:57,850 --> 00:25:02,350
knows what this thing is. I think,

431
00:25:02,730 --> 00:25:07,070
you know, so obviously, you know,
they want to maximize profits.

432
00:25:07,620 --> 00:25:09,390
Part of the problem for me is, you know,

433
00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:11,150
other than these giant tent pole movies,

434
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:14,470
I don't know why movies really
cost that much money. You know? Uh,

435
00:25:14,860 --> 00:25:16,550
it's sort of crazy to me.

436
00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:17,230
Yeah, it.

437
00:25:17,230 --> 00:25:20,270
Is. I mean, you know, you could take
over countries with this money <laugh>,

438
00:25:20,610 --> 00:25:23,150
you know, and, and it's like, you, it,

439
00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:26,910
it is so nuts to me to
be you're in for 700,

440
00:25:26,910 --> 00:25:31,870
800 million to make a movie that goes
by in 90 minutes. It's so crazy to me.

441
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:36,460
Yeah. You know, you can
make amazing cinema for

442
00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:38,580
like 1% of that money.

443
00:25:38,650 --> 00:25:40,300
Yeah. I always talk about
the movie Tangerine,

444
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:43,540
which I thought was a fantastic
movie, and it was shot on an iPhone.

445
00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:47,660
Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's why,
like, I love Steven Soderberg,

446
00:25:47,660 --> 00:25:51,820
what he's doing now. He's shooting things
on iPhones and, and, uh, and I think,

447
00:25:51,970 --> 00:25:55,890
look, a lot of it is
because I'm older. Uh,

448
00:25:55,950 --> 00:25:57,650
I'm 65 years old, you know,

449
00:25:57,690 --> 00:26:01,970
I grew up in the seventies when there
was that whole new Hollywood resurgence

450
00:26:01,980 --> 00:26:05,450
going on. And you had all those
amazing filmmakers. You had,

451
00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:09,090
Scorsese was a kid starting
out. And George Lucas,

452
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,490
this all pre Star Wars too, you
know, and Spielberg and was,

453
00:26:13,910 --> 00:26:17,970
you had just done Sugarland Express
and Jaw started to change things in

454
00:26:18,130 --> 00:26:22,810
1975. But you had Peter
Bogdanovich, William Friedkin,

455
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:26,130
who I just think The Exorcist
and the French connection.

456
00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:28,290
I just watched them
last week, both of them.

457
00:26:28,550 --> 00:26:31,770
It doesn't get any better than that,
you know? Yeah. These were real movies.

458
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,730
Yeah. You know, these, I mean, these
were real movies and, you know,

459
00:26:35,730 --> 00:26:36,560
they were sort of,

460
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,250
they were commercial and then they were
sort of anti commercial at the same

461
00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:44,340
time, which was part of their appeal.
You know, cinema for me, for me,

462
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:48,420
always had this kind of, you
know, semi underground, uh,

463
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,380
hip cool thing about it. It was
cutting edge, you know? It wasn't like,

464
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:56,980
you know, was supposed to
shake you up and be different,

465
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,500
was supposed to slap you around
a little bit. Make you think,

466
00:27:00,610 --> 00:27:05,500
make you feel things that even
confuse you, confound you, you know,

467
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:09,980
it wasn't a lot of Pablo to me, which
is what a lot of it's turned into.

468
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:14,500
So I'm a bit of a throw. I'm not a
bit, I am a throwback. And that I much,

469
00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:17,260
I much prefer making those
kinds of movies. The problem is,

470
00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:20,060
I think a lot of people
today, unless they're,

471
00:27:20,170 --> 00:27:25,170
they either are my age
or have a tremendous, uh,

472
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,870
love of movies and cinema, uh,

473
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,910
don't get the references today when
they see a smaller movie, they go, ah,

474
00:27:34,910 --> 00:27:38,070
this is cheap. This is shit.
You know, as opposed to, wow,

475
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:42,070
this is a cool different little
movie these people put together.

476
00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:45,230
But if you don't understand, look,
if you were starting out today,

477
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:46,470
I don't see how any of these people,

478
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:50,270
like if you think about Robert Altman
or Scorsese or any one of those guys,

479
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:51,390
if they were starting out today,

480
00:27:51,790 --> 00:27:54,630
I don't know if they would get
the reception today that they got,

481
00:27:54,780 --> 00:27:58,350
then these were guys in
their sellers, you know,

482
00:27:58,350 --> 00:28:02,110
trying to make something
different, you know? Uh, and.

483
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,750
Today also they believed in
space. I, i, I say this a lot,

484
00:28:05,820 --> 00:28:10,590
that there was a time when
movies really took advantage of

485
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:15,790
time, of space and time
and the feel of of a

486
00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:20,750
suspenseful moment or of walking
to a telephone to take a call or

487
00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:25,270
any of that stuff was all part of the
dynamic of what people were seeing.

488
00:28:25,330 --> 00:28:29,310
And it, it, yes, it really brought you
in and now it's just boom, boom, boom,

489
00:28:29,310 --> 00:28:30,143
boom, boom.

490
00:28:30,170 --> 00:28:34,790
To me it's maddening. Like, I, I I
I, I just did a little action movie,

491
00:28:35,090 --> 00:28:38,110
uh, called Vanquish with Ruby Rose and,

492
00:28:38,130 --> 00:28:41,830
and Morgan Freeman and the whole
opening. I took my sweet ass time,

493
00:28:41,890 --> 00:28:46,350
cuz I'm trying to lure you in Now. If
you have attention Deficit syndrome,

494
00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:50,870
then you, you get, I think people
see, I also think that, look again,

495
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,230
there was, I think people
today have a lot of anxiety.

496
00:28:55,690 --> 00:28:58,990
If you have a lot of anxiety, then
you, you tend to have control issues.

497
00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:01,350
So if you have control
issues, what does that mean?

498
00:29:01,650 --> 00:29:03,070
You don't wanna feel anything.

499
00:29:03,290 --> 00:29:06,510
You want things to move quick cuz you
don't want to be settled, you know? Right.

500
00:29:06,510 --> 00:29:09,670
You, a lot of times you don't wanna
laugh. That's another control issue.

501
00:29:09,890 --> 00:29:13,110
I'm just not gonna laugh. I'm not gonna
laugh. This is not funny. This is a,

502
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:16,150
I don't, like, this is not
funny because you just aren't,

503
00:29:16,770 --> 00:29:18,870
you're trying to maintain
some kind of control.

504
00:29:19,050 --> 00:29:21,710
And the truth of it is you're not in
control. You're not in control of shit.

505
00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:26,070
Okay. Like, you know, you may think
you are, but you're just not. So, like,

506
00:29:26,090 --> 00:29:29,470
to me it's like surrender. Just
surrender, man. Yeah, I agree. Surrender.

507
00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:31,110
It's gonna be over anyway.

508
00:29:31,340 --> 00:29:34,550
It's the people trying to figure out the
magic trick while they're watching The

509
00:29:34,550 --> 00:29:37,310
Magician. It's like, yes, just
enjoy the magic trick. Just.

510
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,230
Enjoy, you know what? You're
a hundred percent right.

511
00:29:39,250 --> 00:29:42,180
Cuz if I read one more stupid
thing where the person says,

512
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:44,980
I figured the movie up from the very
beginning. Oh, okay, well good for you.

513
00:29:45,290 --> 00:29:47,020
Good for you. You didn't go for the ride.

514
00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:49,940
I knew we were gonna Las Vegas
all along. Well, good for you.

515
00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:52,500
That's what it said. We're going
from New York to Vegas. It's like,

516
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,980
so you figured it out, say like
in a Hitchcock movie is Yeah.

517
00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:59,020
You can figure out who the killer
is. That's not the the funnest.

518
00:29:59,020 --> 00:29:59,980
I'm going for the ride.

519
00:30:00,190 --> 00:30:01,220
There is, I mean,

520
00:30:01,220 --> 00:30:05,460
obviously we live in a society now that
is breakneck and our brains have been

521
00:30:05,740 --> 00:30:09,260
reprogrammed. Do we know this
to have an attention problem?

522
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,060
But there's also in the zeitgeist,

523
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,220
the feeling of don't think something
unless someone else has thought at first.

524
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,180
So you are being, that's why
they're called influencers, right?

525
00:30:19,180 --> 00:30:20,010
That there's this,

526
00:30:20,010 --> 00:30:24,900
somehow we've deemed a certain
set of society to tell us how to

527
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:25,900
think and feel and be.

528
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,700
And if those people aren't thinking
and feeling and being a certain way,

529
00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:34,580
then we just, as you say, stay
in a, in a stasis of some sort.

530
00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:37,620
Well, you know what, I'm
not a sheep. I don't need a,

531
00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:40,860
I don't need a sheep herder. You
know what I'm saying? Sure. I'm okay.

532
00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:43,660
I'll be a lone wolf. I'm fine
with that. You know. But then.

533
00:30:43,660 --> 00:30:47,660
We have Alli, we have movies
like Moonlight or Bottle
Rocket or, uh, I Dunno,

534
00:30:47,660 --> 00:30:49,340
Silkwood, which is still
a pretty big movie,

535
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,300
but still about a topic that isn't
exactly a, you know, feel good. You know,

536
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:58,540
there are, there are movies
Yes. That happen that, that,

537
00:30:59,330 --> 00:31:03,340
that do do quite well. That have
said, you know what, fuck you,

538
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,540
I'm gonna do what I want.

539
00:31:04,930 --> 00:31:08,140
Well, look, I have to tell you, I
think there's a massive hunger for it,

540
00:31:08,140 --> 00:31:08,780
you know?

541
00:31:08,780 --> 00:31:09,940
I do too. I agree. I.

542
00:31:09,940 --> 00:31:10,773
Think movies,

543
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:13,780
I think there's more room for these
kinds of films than people think.

544
00:31:13,810 --> 00:31:18,340
Because look, again, if I were the guy
spending hundreds of millions of dollars,

545
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:21,700
I don't know if I would be
so cavalier myself. I mean,

546
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:25,260
it's very easy for me to not be
spending money on making movies. So, oh,

547
00:31:25,260 --> 00:31:29,580
what I would do is I believe in my
heart that there's a much bigger

548
00:31:30,260 --> 00:31:34,620
appetite for these films, then
studios are letting on. You know?

549
00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:38,540
That's pretty, I yeah, I
do too. Because I mean,

550
00:31:38,540 --> 00:31:42,620
how long can you watch the same old shit?
Just because it's moving quickly? I,

551
00:31:42,740 --> 00:31:45,300
I, you know, that's, I don't
know, it's, to me, it's like,

552
00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:50,060
I like putting a lot of sugar on a
turd. I guess it's three, I guess. Yeah.

553
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,300
I'm still like a turd to me
somehow. But anyway, but yeah.

554
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:57,420
But if people are used to eating turds,
then they're like, oh, I know this,

555
00:31:57,620 --> 00:31:58,370
I know this turd.

556
00:31:58,370 --> 00:32:01,020
Well I know this turd, you know,
you're a hundred percent right.

557
00:32:01,020 --> 00:32:04,020
George Harrison said a great
quote, you know, the, uh,

558
00:32:04,020 --> 00:32:05,180
and for those who don't know,

559
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,140
he was the lead guitarist for a little
band called The Beatles. He said, uh,

560
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,260
if you listen to Garbage every day,

561
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,620
how do you know when you
heard something good?

562
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:16,023
Right?

563
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,540
So yeah, there you go.

564
00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:22,730
Yeah, I agree. Is it tricky
because you work with a lot of,

565
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:23,170
uh,

566
00:32:23,170 --> 00:32:28,090
seasoned actors where they came
up in an era of movies where

567
00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:29,250
things were at a,

568
00:32:29,270 --> 00:32:34,250
at a pace where you could be in
the moment in real time. And,

569
00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:36,450
and now things are like,
go, go, go, go, go.

570
00:32:37,030 --> 00:32:40,700
Is that tricky to direct
them? Are they frustrated?

571
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,820
No, they love it. They love it. And I
have to tell you, like again, even with,

572
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,400
uh, on Comeback Trail, you
know, a lot of times I,

573
00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:50,760
cuz most directors tell
actors to hurry up,

574
00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:54,280
I'm always telling them to
slow down. Mm. You know,

575
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,720
like even when we're doing comeback trail,
like slow down, slow down, slow down.

576
00:32:58,990 --> 00:33:02,600
Feel the moments. Feel the moments.
It's okay. When I was doing Vanquish,

577
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,520
I said to uh, to, to Ruby Rose cuz she
was spitting out the lines. I said, Ruby,

578
00:33:07,550 --> 00:33:11,920
Ruby, slow down, slow down. Just
it's okay. Slow down. She came over,

579
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,040
she gave me a hug. She goes, she goes,
I've been doing a lot of television.

580
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,120
That's all I do. Tell me to hurry up,
hurry up, hurry up. He says, okay,

581
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,320
but not everybody in this movie's on 80
cups of coffee. You know what I mean?

582
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,720
Where, you know, it's okay
to have a conversation,

583
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:27,680
like a normal fucking conversation like
you would have on a sofa with somebody.

584
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,160
I don't know. I feel it. Dunno how to
run on day one. Long pause. Long pause.

585
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,800
Makes you lean in silences.
Make you lean in. Mm-hmm.

586
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,600
<affirmative> silences engage you.
When things are going so fast,

587
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,010
then you're, I find you're not
engaged. How can I keep up with it?

588
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,650
Silence is its own character sometimes.

589
00:33:47,790 --> 00:33:51,360
Yes. Hello. Thank you. But again,

590
00:33:52,380 --> 00:33:56,120
if you have those control issues
or attention deficit syndrome,

591
00:33:56,500 --> 00:33:58,880
the thing can never move fast
enough. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

592
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,680
And the other thing I'd like to do is,

593
00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:02,800
I'd like to smack everybody
in the back of their head,

594
00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:07,520
why are people on their goddamn phones
during movies? Why are there heads down?

595
00:34:07,550 --> 00:34:08,300
What is this?

596
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:10,240
That's, yeah, that's a major bummer.

597
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,400
I love seeing movies in
theaters and it's, it's,

598
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:17,560
it's amazing to me when you look around
like, can I have your phone? Like,

599
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,240
there's a thing.

600
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:19,760
Happening. I know. And then they go, it's,

601
00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:24,560
or or they say it's boring cuz they're
not engaging, but they're, you know, I,

602
00:34:25,220 --> 00:34:26,053
man, oh man.

603
00:34:26,180 --> 00:34:29,800
We sound like really old people, I
guess. But it's, I'm, I'm with you. I,

604
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:35,120
I am long for, I I've said
this before on this show,

605
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:36,120
is that to me,

606
00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:41,120
going to an something like a
concert or a movie or a play or

607
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,560
anything like, or a reading,

608
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:48,120
it's as much about watching
this incredible performance
in its intended format,

609
00:34:48,260 --> 00:34:53,040
but it's also about the communion of
all the people in the audience that are

610
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,080
taking it in. Yes.

611
00:34:54,820 --> 00:34:56,160
Yes. And, and, and it,

612
00:34:56,190 --> 00:35:00,680
it's just a form of distraction and
it's a form of not being engaged.

613
00:35:00,980 --> 00:35:04,680
And God forbid you start feeling
something, you know, if that,

614
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,760
that's the point of this. I
wanna be moved. I wanna laugh.

615
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,400
I wanna forget about me for
a goddamn minute. You know,

616
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,040
I wanna forget about, I wanna get
drawn into something else. Mm-hmm.

617
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,600
<affirmative>, I mean, that's
the joy of it, isn't it?

618
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,160
Think you ever hear a
piece, piece of music,

619
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:21,480
you start getting tears
in your eyes. I mean,

620
00:35:21,540 --> 00:35:23,680
that's where you wanna
go with this stuff. Yeah.

621
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,880
That's the whole point of making it for
a guy who's been talking for the last

622
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,600
half hour and won't shut up.
I'm not normally like this,

623
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,120
this is the most I've spoken all,
all week. I, I'm not a narcissist.

624
00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:38,340
You know what I mean? That, that, to
me, that's all narcissism. I, I like to,

625
00:35:38,980 --> 00:35:41,300
I wanna be overtaken, but I want, I wanna,

626
00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:45,460
I wanna hear about things I know nothing
about. I, I, I freely admit that I,

627
00:35:45,460 --> 00:35:49,460
that I know nothing. The older I get,
the more I realize I, how, how much,

628
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,300
you know, when you're young, you
think you know every goddamn thing.

629
00:35:52,370 --> 00:35:54,820
When you get old, you start,
I don't know shit's Right.

630
00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:57,660
I just thought I knew stuff, you
know? That's right. Yeah. You know,

631
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,100
so I wanna learn. I wanna, you know,
and I think that keeps you young.

632
00:36:02,660 --> 00:36:05,780
I wanna learn, I wanna experience
stuff. I wanna Oh really? No kidding.

633
00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:08,780
Isn't that exciting? Isn't
that interesting? I never
looked at life that way.

634
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:09,300
Right.

635
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:12,020
It's an empathy, uh, meter. It's an, it,

636
00:36:12,020 --> 00:36:16,700
it draws you into another experience
and reminds you of your own humanity.

637
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,810
Yeah. Listen to you. That's great.

638
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,250
When you first started out, let's,
let's pick Bad Boys for example.

639
00:36:23,870 --> 00:36:28,410
So here was a movie that featured two,
you know, black leads at a Time that,

640
00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:33,050
that was a little probably risky for
studios. Was that tricky to say? You know,

641
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:36,690
this is what I see. Is that the,
is that what you envisioned?

642
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,010
Well, as much as I would
like to take credit for that,

643
00:36:39,010 --> 00:36:41,290
it was not written that way
originally. It was written for,

644
00:36:41,470 --> 00:36:46,410
for for one black guy and a white guy.
The script sat around for quite a while.

645
00:36:46,410 --> 00:36:50,730
That script I wrote prior to Midnight
Run, which I wrote midnight Run in 80.

646
00:36:51,610 --> 00:36:53,970
I was on kind of a roll.
I, the first one I,

647
00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:58,530
I wrote that got made was called Wise
Guys. That was Danny DeVito and Joe PIs,

648
00:36:58,930 --> 00:37:01,810
whatever that Brian De Palmer
directed. Right after that,

649
00:37:01,850 --> 00:37:06,250
I wrote Bad Boys and I sold that to
Paramount and that sat there for like 10

650
00:37:06,250 --> 00:37:10,970
years. Then right on the heels of that
I wrote Midnight Run. And that got made,

651
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,050
that exploded. That changed my life.

652
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:18,230
And then I wrote and directed
a couple of movies. Uh,

653
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:21,030
I wrote and directed 29th Street. I
dunno if you're familiar with that.

654
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:24,750
I do. Yeah. That's a, to me
that's a, a great example of,

655
00:37:25,930 --> 00:37:29,710
of characters of just
like feeling everything.

656
00:37:30,020 --> 00:37:33,910
There's so much feeling in that. I don't
know how to describe it exactly, but.

657
00:37:34,330 --> 00:37:38,870
God bless you. <laugh>, my wife is just
said how terrific you are. Thank you.

658
00:37:38,890 --> 00:37:40,110
How come? I don't know. You better.

659
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:42,350
<Laugh>. Well, we'll change all that.

660
00:37:43,420 --> 00:37:45,070
Come I to have a drink. Oh, I.

661
00:37:45,070 --> 00:37:45,630
Love it. Yeah.

662
00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:47,790
Alright. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah,

663
00:37:47,790 --> 00:37:52,680
that was a big loving kind of
New York punch in the face,

664
00:37:54,340 --> 00:37:58,950
uh, comedy drama. Certainly.
You had a lot of, I really,

665
00:37:59,170 --> 00:38:01,430
uh, it is loosely based on a true story,

666
00:38:01,430 --> 00:38:06,420
but I put a lot of my own
experiences of growing up, uh,

667
00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:09,900
in an Italian family in
that movie. Then, uh,

668
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:14,580
trapped in Paradise was like a big
kind of commercial Christmas movie.

669
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,020
And then then Bad Boys
got Made after that.

670
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,140
So that was quite a few
years of John Combine.

671
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,580
So you didn't make the
decision to have uh.

672
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,540
No, they changed it up, but they, they,

673
00:38:24,750 --> 00:38:28,260
there were a few writers came on after
me. Yeah. Which was really interesting.

674
00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:32,340
Every time the history thing about
Bad Boys to do was, every time, uh,

675
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,430
Don Simpson came back to me, me,
to do a rewrite on Bad On Bad Boys,

676
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:42,550
uh, I was always doing another movie.
They first came back to me on, uh,

677
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:47,190
29th Street, and then they were, they
had two other actors and then fell apart.

678
00:38:47,950 --> 00:38:50,270
I mean, obviously it was meant to be the
way they made it, you know, with, uh,

679
00:38:50,290 --> 00:38:54,350
Martin Lawrence and, and, and Will
Smith. But then I, they called me,

680
00:38:54,430 --> 00:38:56,310
I was in Canada saying, Hey,

681
00:38:56,310 --> 00:39:01,030
you wanna do a pass on Bad Boys for
two African African-American leads?

682
00:39:01,130 --> 00:39:04,310
And I, I says, I'm in Canada,
I'm making trapped in paradise.

683
00:39:05,130 --> 00:39:07,390
So they hired two o two
other sets of rioters,

684
00:39:07,730 --> 00:39:09,590
but then the movie came
out and was a huge head.

685
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:11,910
It was still the same basic idea.

686
00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:16,390
Yeah. Is that a, a weird space
when you first experienced,

687
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:17,830
I'm sure by now, you know,

688
00:39:18,050 --> 00:39:21,510
you've written so many movies and
things happen with rewrites and things.

689
00:39:21,610 --> 00:39:25,390
But in the beginning when
you wrote something and then
have other people come in

690
00:39:25,410 --> 00:39:28,510
and rewrite, is that the fir
the beginning? Was that weird?

691
00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:31,630
Yeah, it was weird. And
I was, I've been very,

692
00:39:31,630 --> 00:39:36,510
very blessed in that it hasn't
really happened to me other than that

693
00:39:36,570 --> 00:39:39,750
one time, uh, I mean, midnight Run,

694
00:39:39,830 --> 00:39:43,150
I was the soul writer wise
guys. I was the soul writer.

695
00:39:43,330 --> 00:39:45,150
So I started out that way. Mm.

696
00:39:45,570 --> 00:39:50,510
So I kind of established that I got
lucky and I was tenacious. I would never,

697
00:39:51,370 --> 00:39:54,350
you know, I would never lay down
if the studio wanted more changes,

698
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:58,990
I would do everything I could to make
it happen. You know? And I, I, uh,

699
00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:02,630
I wasn't like, uh, I have a lot of
friends that are terrific writers.

700
00:40:03,150 --> 00:40:06,870
I mean terrific writers, but they
would say, I could say the F word.

701
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:08,110
I think I said it once already. Yeah.

702
00:40:08,110 --> 00:40:08,550
Yeah.

703
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:10,590
<Laugh>, they would say
fuck off to the studio

704
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:16,180
long before I would, and as a result,

705
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,620
didn't get as many movies
made as I did. But, you know,

706
00:40:21,660 --> 00:40:24,940
I always tried to keep my
eye on the prize, which was,

707
00:40:25,740 --> 00:40:28,220
I always felt that if I left the movie, I,

708
00:40:28,570 --> 00:40:30,500
even though I might not
always love the notes,

709
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:33,780
I was still somewhat in
control of its destiny. Mm-hmm.

710
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,860
It always seemed worth it for me to
hang on. And then plus the, you know, I,

711
00:40:38,980 --> 00:40:41,860
I got called on to fix a lot of movies,

712
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:46,340
a lot of scripts that I didn't get credit
for, but I was always getting called,

713
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:52,100
you know, uh, especially if somebody
wanted kind of snappy dialogue or,

714
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:52,570
or.

715
00:40:52,570 --> 00:40:55,860
Yeah. You've got, your dialogue
is great. It's, thank you. Yeah.

716
00:40:56,030 --> 00:40:59,140
Comes from growing up in a
very dysfunctional family.

717
00:40:59,740 --> 00:41:03,220
Absolutely. When you made the
transition into directing,

718
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,660
how did that change your
writing? Because now you're.

719
00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:08,900
That is a great question.

720
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,940
It definitely changed my writing
when I wrote Midnight Run. See, I,

721
00:41:14,900 --> 00:41:18,660
I had, obviously, I knew I was never
gonna direct it. So it's funny,

722
00:41:18,660 --> 00:41:21,340
from a screenwriting
perspective, I always say this,

723
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,140
if you're home in the coziness
of your, you know, in your,

724
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,620
of your workspace, you don't, and
you're not gonna direct the movie,

725
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,730
you don't mind writing things
like it's the coldest ever.

726
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,730
It's snowing, it's raining,
it's pelting people so hard.

727
00:41:38,730 --> 00:41:40,090
Their flesh is coming off.

728
00:41:40,590 --> 00:41:45,490
People walk into rooms and it's freezing
and steam is coming out of their

729
00:41:45,490 --> 00:41:46,650
mouths. Or it's,

730
00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:51,370
you are in the middle of the Mojave
Desert and there's not a person in sight

731
00:41:51,390 --> 00:41:52,190
for,

732
00:41:52,190 --> 00:41:57,170
for 50 miles in every direction and
they fall into a raging river and get

733
00:41:57,420 --> 00:42:01,650
swept up and blah, blah, blah, blah.
So when you start directing, you go,

734
00:42:01,650 --> 00:42:04,210
how the fuck am I gonna
shoot that? You know?

735
00:42:04,270 --> 00:42:08,610
Or I'm not going out to the goddamn
Mojave desert in August. Are you nuts?

736
00:42:09,110 --> 00:42:13,850
You know, so you start writing a little
differently. You know, it's, it's, uh,

737
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,970
it's, when I wrote Midnight Run, like I
say again, I I, if you think about it,

738
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,130
there's helicopter chases that lead
to a big chase through a thing,

739
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,210
down a cliff. They fall into a
raging river. I mean, I, you know,

740
00:42:26,290 --> 00:42:28,410
I was just writing this shit
cuz I was having a good time.

741
00:42:28,910 --> 00:42:30,890
And then Marty Bras who
director of the movie,

742
00:42:31,330 --> 00:42:35,010
I think fucking flawlessly
said to me, boy,

743
00:42:35,010 --> 00:42:37,930
you really threw a lot of shit in
here. You know, there's like, uh,

744
00:42:38,250 --> 00:42:40,370
normally that stuff is
in one, uh, you know,

745
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:43,490
one of those scenes is in one movie.
We had them all back to back, you know.

746
00:42:44,110 --> 00:42:49,010
So now when I write stuff, I
think if I write the word night,

747
00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:52,210
I go, is there any chance I
could do this in the daytime?

748
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:55,810
Cuz I hate being up at four o'clock
in the morning trying to shoot. Cuz I,

749
00:42:56,190 --> 00:43:00,050
I'm just exhausted. Like, for
instance, trapped in Paradise,

750
00:43:00,660 --> 00:43:03,970
which I knew I was gonna
direct, I wrote, but I was also

751
00:43:05,590 --> 00:43:09,650
34 years old when I wrote, now
I'm 65, so that's Jesus Christ.

752
00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:13,450
30 years ago I was young and stupid.

753
00:43:13,630 --> 00:43:17,610
So writing a blizzard, that all takes
place in one night. As you remember,

754
00:43:17,610 --> 00:43:21,170
that movie all takes place in one night
during the worst snow storm of the year.

755
00:43:21,730 --> 00:43:23,410
I would never write that today.

756
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:27,610
Or I would write it and give it to
somebody else. Say, here you go, do this.

757
00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:32,170
I did this. I'm not doing it again.
Yeah. So it does change your writing.

758
00:43:33,310 --> 00:43:37,570
If you were to go back in time
and change one of your films,

759
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:39,730
is there something that stands out?

760
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,850
Yeah, you, these are
great questions. Look,

761
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:46,570
if I'm gonna be completely honest
with you, I think that there is,

762
00:43:47,070 --> 00:43:51,010
I'd like to change all of them
probably. Yeah. You know, we always,

763
00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:54,930
I I think Midnight Run is pretty flawless,
but I, I didn't direct that film,

764
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:58,850
but all the ones that I've
directed, every time I look at them,

765
00:44:00,930 --> 00:44:04,890
I like to trim something
or, uh, what the fuck?

766
00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:09,810
Why did I go to that fucking angle for,
you know, or, or, or whatever, you know.

767
00:44:10,190 --> 00:44:14,720
But all of them I look at. But
see, the problem is you can never,

768
00:44:15,790 --> 00:44:19,360
it's very funny when you make a movie,
this happens a lot when you paint too.

769
00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:21,400
You, you'll know this as a painter,

770
00:44:22,110 --> 00:44:25,660
there are things that you won't accept
in your own work that you'll completely

771
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,340
accept in other people's work. Like,

772
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:30,820
a lot of times I will look
at my movies and I go,

773
00:44:30,820 --> 00:44:33,820
they're taking too long
in my mind, or, uh,

774
00:44:33,820 --> 00:44:37,100
or they're getting too Cutty or
blah, blah, blah, blah. But if it's,

775
00:44:37,100 --> 00:44:40,700
if you're not emotionally
attached to it in that it's yours,

776
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,940
you can look at another movie and go, oh,
I love that it's doing this. You know?

777
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,820
So I don't really, I think
there's that thing that happens.

778
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,820
And I also think when you're looking
at a movie that you can change,

779
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,290
like your own movie, you look at
it in a highly analytical way,

780
00:45:01,290 --> 00:45:05,740
which is important on the one hand
because you're trying to make it work,

781
00:45:06,140 --> 00:45:09,100
whatever that means. But at the same time,

782
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:14,100
it's a very negative way to watch the
movie because you watch it so many

783
00:45:14,110 --> 00:45:18,900
times and you become so
analytical during the process that

784
00:45:19,630 --> 00:45:22,570
you can start ruining
what's right about it.

785
00:45:23,370 --> 00:45:27,830
And you sometimes just end up
making it different and not better.

786
00:45:29,100 --> 00:45:32,840
So that happens, you know, you're a
painter that happens when you're painting.

787
00:45:33,100 --> 00:45:33,720
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like,

788
00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:36,040
you could go to a museum and look
at another painting. You go, man,

789
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,840
that thing's terrific. If you did
it, you'd say, I gotta fix that eye.

790
00:45:39,870 --> 00:45:43,720
That thing sucks. You know?
But that's because you're,

791
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:47,000
you're being analytical and it, that
two, two things are always at work.

792
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,350
I think when you, when you're
working as an artist, uh,

793
00:45:51,350 --> 00:45:55,390
which is part of your brain is
super analytical working on it,

794
00:45:55,390 --> 00:45:59,270
and then there's the whole
emotional side that's creating it.

795
00:45:59,530 --> 00:46:03,110
And you gotta learn to shut the
analytical side off sometimes,

796
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,910
which is a very hard thing to do because
you gotta go, I'm overanalyzing this.

797
00:46:08,410 --> 00:46:12,470
I'd never analyzed anything the
way I'm analyzing this, I mean,

798
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:16,030
you don't need a piece of pie and go,
no, no, no. I think I use some paprika.

799
00:46:16,050 --> 00:46:18,390
No, I think I use cinnamon. I
think there was a combination.

800
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:23,310
I you just enjoy the fucking
pie, right? So you don't,

801
00:46:23,810 --> 00:46:28,700
you don't pick everything to
pieces that, that you're watching.

802
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,260
You just enjoy it. So I would probably
change all of them a little bit.

803
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,220
Mm. There's actually one movie
I did that I think is pretty,

804
00:46:38,890 --> 00:46:41,620
yeah. I did a movie called Middlemen.
I dunno if you ever saw that.

805
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,060
That's about the, I I have not seen it.
It's the one about the internet, uh,

806
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:47,500
people.

807
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:50,780
Calling. Yeah. That movie I
feel like I really got. Right.

808
00:46:51,170 --> 00:46:55,340
It's over the top where I want it to
be. It's poignant where I want it to be.

809
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,020
It moves just the way I
wanted it to go. It good pace.

810
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,900
It takes its time where it's supposed
to. I'm really happy with that movie.

811
00:47:03,570 --> 00:47:06,700
It's at Wolf of Wall Street.
I feel, I watched the trailer.

812
00:47:06,860 --> 00:47:08,780
I haven't seen the movie
of Middle Men's. And it,

813
00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:12,500
when I was watching the
trailer in preparation to
speak with you, I thought, oh,

814
00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:16,060
Wolf of Wall Street definitely
pulled from these concepts. Look.

815
00:47:16,220 --> 00:47:18,660
I gotta tell you, I, I
can't speak for that.

816
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,250
But there's another movie that
won a lot of awards that the

817
00:47:23,610 --> 00:47:26,370
director, it's not Wolf of Wall
Street, it's another movie.

818
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,300
They pilfered that
movie left and right. I,

819
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,900
it really middlemen was
a movie that got it.

820
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,340
The release of the movie was sort of
screwed up in what happened in Paramount.

821
00:47:36,380 --> 00:47:41,020
I think they botched the release
Middlemen is a movie. It's really funny.

822
00:47:41,340 --> 00:47:45,500
I, I read a review. I read a
review in a paper, a newspaper,

823
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,740
the San Francisco newspaper, uh,

824
00:47:48,130 --> 00:47:52,460
basically bashed the movie
and said that it, the,

825
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,950
it it filled them with a tremendous
amount of anxiety. And I was like,

826
00:47:57,180 --> 00:47:58,750
that was the fucking point. <laugh>.

827
00:47:58,750 --> 00:48:00,230
That's the, I was just gonna say that's.

828
00:48:00,420 --> 00:48:01,590
That was the point. It was supposed.

829
00:48:01,700 --> 00:48:02,533
Like a compliment.

830
00:48:03,260 --> 00:48:05,990
Yeah. Mean, I said,
wow, you be, it worked.

831
00:48:06,220 --> 00:48:10,310
It's like you don't even realize
that that's, cause to me it was,

832
00:48:10,660 --> 00:48:15,590
that entire movie was like, you know,
like using a drug terminology or,

833
00:48:15,590 --> 00:48:17,830
because all those people were on
drugs, you know, in the movie,

834
00:48:17,830 --> 00:48:21,790
they're all cod up and they're
all porn stars and lunatics. Sure.

835
00:48:21,860 --> 00:48:24,030
It's not like you're on a
three day bender and, and,

836
00:48:24,030 --> 00:48:27,790
and an airplane flies over the house and
you're certain that that airplane knows

837
00:48:27,790 --> 00:48:31,870
you're doing coke in your house. It was
that kind of anxiety. It, it, you know,

838
00:48:31,870 --> 00:48:35,790
it, it was a, these
were very, very anxious,

839
00:48:36,340 --> 00:48:39,110
desperate people. So yes, of course,

840
00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:42,190
for two hours of watching that
it's gonna make you feel anxious.

841
00:48:42,530 --> 00:48:45,430
We tried to make the
cutting anxious. We, uh,

842
00:48:45,710 --> 00:48:49,550
I told people to cross eyelines all the
time, which is in filmmaking, you know,

843
00:48:49,550 --> 00:48:52,590
you're always over the shoulder. Right
shoulder the left shoulder. You know,

844
00:48:52,670 --> 00:48:55,510
I purposely crossed eyelines. I
did all these things on purpose,

845
00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:59,750
so you would never quite feel settled
or, or comfortable. But anyway,

846
00:49:00,290 --> 00:49:02,670
so it made him feel anxious. So.

847
00:49:02,670 --> 00:49:04,710
Whereas if that movie came out today,

848
00:49:05,290 --> 00:49:07,830
it would of course be lauded for that.

849
00:49:08,670 --> 00:49:11,550
I would hope so. Well,
listen, everything I've done,

850
00:49:11,550 --> 00:49:15,070
I tried to do a little bit different.
You know, I didn't look, there's guys,

851
00:49:15,450 --> 00:49:20,310
men and women that have amazing
careers who they kind of keep

852
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:22,470
making the same movie over
and over and over again.

853
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:26,760
And I've tried to make them all somewhat
different, you know? Um, I mean,

854
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,110
I definitely play around with
the same themes a lot, but, uh,

855
00:49:31,420 --> 00:49:35,030
most of my themes are about some kind
of redemption. These movies, you know,

856
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:38,870
which probably sort of a Catholic idea
going back to the beginning of the

857
00:49:38,990 --> 00:49:42,630
interview. But the, they, they're,
they're, uh, or certain, you know, uh,

858
00:49:42,780 --> 00:49:45,390
certainly a religious notion of,

859
00:49:45,410 --> 00:49:49,070
of re redeeming oneself
for past sins. I mean,

860
00:49:49,070 --> 00:49:53,150
certainly middlemen is that midnight
run, is that 29th Street? Is that 29th.

861
00:49:53,150 --> 00:49:56,390
Street? Yeah, it did that to me,
there's a feeling of even, uh,

862
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:57,990
which I think this is a,

863
00:49:57,990 --> 00:50:01,950
just a true statement that in the
horrors of just being a human being,

864
00:50:02,220 --> 00:50:03,870
it's weirdly hilarious.

865
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:09,990
Yeah. <laugh>, you're right,
you're right. A hundred percent.

866
00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:13,470
You have to acknowledge that, you
know, that, that this is so awful.

867
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:17,750
It almost crosses over into,
or it does cross over. Yes.

868
00:50:17,870 --> 00:50:21,750
I mean, look, I mean, look, we've all
seen something so horrible. If you like,

869
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:23,990
you know, you're with somebody
you love and trust, okay?

870
00:50:24,370 --> 00:50:27,300
And you're driving down the road,
you see something so horrible,

871
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:29,900
you quiet and you're mortified.

872
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,140
And 10 seconds later you could start
getting the giggles. It was so awful.

873
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,420
You know, because it, you
know, like Julie's father, oh,

874
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:43,380
Richard told me the most horrible
story. Him Don't out him.

875
00:50:43,380 --> 00:50:48,220
She says, yes. He's, he's passed.
No, I'm gonna tell the story,

876
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,980
but I, he told this story about an,

877
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,340
an accident that happened up
on the grapevine. What? That's.

878
00:50:55,370 --> 00:50:57,300
He's freaking out over
there. Well, I don't.

879
00:50:57,300 --> 00:51:01,860
Even know story. Well, lemme tell a story
said No, don't, I'm not incriminating.

880
00:51:01,860 --> 00:51:04,140
Alright. It would've been a
loving story. I forget it.

881
00:51:06,660 --> 00:51:09,500
I know what story. It's, forget it.
Ok. I'll tell you another story.

882
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,380
I'm the world's biggest animal lover.
Okay. Leaving Julie's father out of it. I,

883
00:51:14,820 --> 00:51:19,220
I got permission from, from God,
okay. And I'm walking down, we,

884
00:51:19,220 --> 00:51:21,380
we were filming a movie
called Local Color. Okay.

885
00:51:21,380 --> 00:51:25,180
We just finished the movie and
I was walking back to, uh, we,

886
00:51:25,180 --> 00:51:30,140
we had a Winnebago, the Winnebago, we
were driving from New Orleans to, uh,

887
00:51:30,510 --> 00:51:34,900
California. Me, Julie's cousin
Brad and the driver Eddie.

888
00:51:35,730 --> 00:51:38,030
And we, we just had breakfast.
We finished the movie.

889
00:51:39,390 --> 00:51:42,760
This story's awful too. I'm walking
back, you're already smiling.

890
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:46,560
We're walking back from breakfast.

891
00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:50,200
But I'm about a 200, 300 feet
ahead of the other two guys.

892
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,540
And I come across something and I'm
looking at it on the side of the road.

893
00:51:55,210 --> 00:52:00,060
It's like a residential street. And
I'm like, what the fuck is that thing?

894
00:52:00,060 --> 00:52:04,380
And I'm looking at it, and
it looks like a big piece of,

895
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,780
uh, like black poster board,

896
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,260
but it's cut out in the shape
of a dog. And I'm looking at it,

897
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,500
I'm looking at it, and then I
realize it's got eyes and some teeth.

898
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,140
And I'm like, oh, Jesus
Christ. That's, that was a dog.

899
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,900
Oh God. And it was so awful. I mean,
obviously it'd been there forever. Okay.

900
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,900
And then, but it was like literally
like an inch in height. It just,

901
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:33,900
there was every bug on
earth had had their day,

902
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,820
and there was just this thing
left. There were no bones, nothing,

903
00:52:37,850 --> 00:52:40,260
just a couple of canine
teeth. And so like,

904
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,060
the remains of what looked
like an eye. And I literally,

905
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:45,900
it was so awful.

906
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:50,420
I started getting the giggles and
I sat on the curb and I was like,

907
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,460
it was, and I'm an animal
lover. It was so horrible.

908
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,740
And Julie's cousin walks by Brent,
he goes, what are you laughing at?

909
00:52:58,860 --> 00:53:02,460
I couldn't even talk. I just was pointing.
And then he looked at me, he goes,

910
00:53:02,490 --> 00:53:06,700
what? And then he went, whoa. Jesus
Christ. And then he started laughing,

911
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,580
and then Eddie was laughing. So like,

912
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,220
that's a very long-winded way of
saying I agree with you. Sorry. Yeah.

913
00:53:12,810 --> 00:53:15,620
Well, I mean, look at people
like Norman Lear or Mel Brooks,

914
00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:17,660
or who could take really dark,

915
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:22,300
dark concepts and find the humor in them,

916
00:53:22,610 --> 00:53:26,460
whether they're looking, whether
they're poking fun and saying, you know,

917
00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:29,420
it ironically, or if they're
just shining the light.

918
00:53:30,730 --> 00:53:34,420
Well, I mean, that to me is the genius
of Mel Brooks. I think, you know,

919
00:53:34,740 --> 00:53:39,310
I agree. You can't, uh, again, when
people start to get, uh, let's see,

920
00:53:39,310 --> 00:53:43,430
perturbed about his
subject matter, uh, uh, it,

921
00:53:43,930 --> 00:53:48,280
the reason it's funny is because
he's poking just tremendous

922
00:53:49,260 --> 00:53:53,560
fun at a lot of human
stupidity. You know? And.

923
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:54,480
Horror. And horror. I.

924
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,840
Mean, and horror. The stupidity of
racist racism. The stupidity of,

925
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,440
I mean, God bless Mel Brooks,

926
00:54:01,870 --> 00:54:06,430
that he could make a comedy
about Adolf Hitler 20 years

927
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,230
after the Holocaust. I mean, you know,

928
00:54:09,410 --> 00:54:14,310
he didn't do it a hundred years after
he did it. He did it in 1966, was it?

929
00:54:14,310 --> 00:54:17,870
Or 67. The Holocaust was
the end of 40, 19 45.

930
00:54:18,370 --> 00:54:22,630
So 22 years later, he's making
springtime for Hitler in Germany. Mm-hmm.

931
00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:25,230
<affirmative>, don't be stupid. Be as
smart. Come and join the Nazi party.

932
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:27,750
I mean, man, that's.

933
00:54:28,340 --> 00:54:28,930
Yeah.

934
00:54:28,930 --> 00:54:32,190
That's guts and that's
balls and good for him, man.

935
00:54:32,250 --> 00:54:34,070
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I agree. I agree.

936
00:54:34,410 --> 00:54:35,790
And it takes the power away.

937
00:54:36,810 --> 00:54:38,110
Oh, I completely agree.

938
00:54:38,330 --> 00:54:41,510
And I think nuance is lost on
a lot of people these days,

939
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:45,710
which is an unfortunate,
that's an unfortunate thing
with the pendulum swings,

940
00:54:45,770 --> 00:54:47,870
is as we lose nuance and.

941
00:54:48,660 --> 00:54:52,310
Yeah. And listen, I get all the
outrage. I do. I just think, you know,

942
00:54:52,310 --> 00:54:56,800
in the end, uh, it's, you know,

943
00:54:57,140 --> 00:55:01,360
all horror is one tick away
from being funny. Yeah.

944
00:55:01,740 --> 00:55:05,920
Ke peel some of their stuff.
It's just genius. Genius, genius.

945
00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:10,200
And like one of their, like their
sketch, do you know ke peel's work?

946
00:55:10,740 --> 00:55:11,460
No.

947
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:13,680
Oh God. They do a whole sketch
where they're up on the,

948
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:16,920
they're on the slave block and all the,

949
00:55:17,020 --> 00:55:20,440
the people around them are being sold
and they're getting more and more pissed

950
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:23,080
off that they're not being chosen.
Like, what the hell's wrong with us?

951
00:55:23,180 --> 00:55:27,280
You know? And it becomes this whole
thing. It's such a genius sketch.

952
00:55:28,460 --> 00:55:28,730
Wow.

953
00:55:28,730 --> 00:55:30,360
About a horrific, a.

954
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,040
Horrific thing. Horrific. But it is
also funny. That's very, yeah. Yeah.

955
00:55:33,070 --> 00:55:35,480
I've also made the same
joke too, being a Catholic,

956
00:55:35,580 --> 00:55:39,680
cuz I was an alt altered boy. And
then, you know, my wife asked me,

957
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,000
were you ever molested? And I said,
no. Like, I was pissed. And I was like,

958
00:55:43,070 --> 00:55:47,000
what? I wasn't good enough that some
priest didn't grab my thing. You know,

959
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,600
what the fuck, what am I
chopped liver? Yeah. I mean, so.

960
00:55:49,850 --> 00:55:50,880
Right, right.

961
00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:55,280
And and maybe that's the trick
is that if within our own horrors

962
00:55:55,810 --> 00:55:56,920
there is wiggle room,

963
00:55:57,140 --> 00:56:00,320
but once you step outside your
own horrors into someone else's,

964
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,640
that's where things get dicey, perhaps.

965
00:56:03,110 --> 00:56:05,160
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I'll.

966
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,520
Be the last to understand
how humans work. <laugh>.

967
00:56:07,830 --> 00:56:12,160
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, again, I
do go back to the notion that, uh,

968
00:56:13,450 --> 00:56:17,510
art isn't supposed to be polite. It is
supposed to smack us around a little bit.

969
00:56:17,580 --> 00:56:18,190
Sure.

970
00:56:18,190 --> 00:56:18,950
I agree. You know.

971
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:23,030
It's, um, if people were politically
correct during the Renaissance,

972
00:56:23,170 --> 00:56:26,060
we wouldn't have had the
Sistine Chapel, you know,

973
00:56:26,060 --> 00:56:29,340
we wouldn't have a lot of things,
you know, uh, the, you know,

974
00:56:29,340 --> 00:56:33,540
the real artist is always bucking against
that stuff, you know? That's right.

975
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,700
That's right. We wouldn't have the
vibrator for God's sakes. That.

976
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,380
You know what, I think, uh, I
think, uh, mark Twain said that.

977
00:56:40,820 --> 00:56:44,100
<Laugh> definitely the
comeback trail. Very exciting.

978
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:48,140
It is very, very exciting. The movie
won four film festivals already.

979
00:56:49,540 --> 00:56:53,500
I know. And I won a couple Life
achievement awards as a result of it. I,

980
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,820
I'm very proud of it. It
is definitely, you know,

981
00:56:56,820 --> 00:56:58,700
getting back to that Mel Brooks idea,

982
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:03,420
it is definitely a total throwback
to laughing at everything.

983
00:57:04,180 --> 00:57:08,300
I mean, it's also got a very poignant
story at the center of, you know,

984
00:57:08,300 --> 00:57:10,660
that holds it all together
because it really is about,

985
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:14,060
a lot of it's about aging and
feeling worthless and, uh,

986
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:16,420
and then making a comeback
from those things,

987
00:57:17,250 --> 00:57:20,100
feeling like your time has
passed when it really hasn't.

988
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,140
So it has a meta level too, cuz
you used actors obviously, who, uh,

989
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,500
in Hollywood terms, of
course, have gone, you know,

990
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,980
are on the other side of
their <laugh> usefulness for,

991
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,740
for lack of a better word, which is
ridiculous. I've never understood that.

992
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,340
The ageism thing, the,

993
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:43,020
the greatest thing in the whole world
is the experience of living for art.

994
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,890
Yeah. I mean, uh, we do celebrate
youth a lot in this country.

995
00:57:49,390 --> 00:57:52,330
And youth is great in that, uh, you know,

996
00:57:52,330 --> 00:57:56,530
you have boundless energy and the
whole world seems new and, uh,

997
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:58,410
but there's nothing
wrong with some wisdom.

998
00:57:59,120 --> 00:57:59,953
Amen to that.

999
00:58:00,330 --> 00:58:04,850
A what is it? Uh, youth and strength,
that's fantastic. But it is no fantastic.

1000
00:58:05,550 --> 00:58:09,130
But it is no match, match for, uh,

1001
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:13,010
age and cunning and wisdom,
you know? So it's, uh.

1002
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,410
It's the, the, the great joke
about the, the steer and the young.

1003
00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:18,850
Yes. One of my favorites.

1004
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,010
Yeah. So great. I love that one.

1005
00:58:21,470 --> 00:58:22,410
Can we say that joke?

1006
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,610
Yeah, of course. Would
you like to tell it?

1007
00:58:24,990 --> 00:58:26,610
You tell the joke. I'm, I'll mess it up.

1008
00:58:26,910 --> 00:58:28,290
So the steer and the,

1009
00:58:28,290 --> 00:58:32,370
the younger bowlers are next to each
other and they're looking down over the

1010
00:58:32,530 --> 00:58:35,890
field of all these cows. And the,

1011
00:58:35,890 --> 00:58:37,970
the younger one looks up
to the older one, says,

1012
00:58:38,380 --> 00:58:42,570
let's run down this hill and
fuck one of them cows. And this,

1013
00:58:42,670 --> 00:58:47,290
the old steer looks at 'em and says,
let's walk down and fuck all of them.

1014
00:58:47,890 --> 00:58:51,050
<laugh>. Which I love that joke.

1015
00:58:51,490 --> 00:58:54,690
<Laugh>. I think it's a great
joke. It's a great joke. <laugh>.

1016
00:58:55,010 --> 00:58:58,450
I know a lot of good jokes I can't tell
on your show, but when you come over.

1017
00:58:59,290 --> 00:59:02,530
I, I'm happy to hear them
all. Yes, absolutely. I mean,

1018
00:59:02,570 --> 00:59:05,970
I could ask you a million questions, but
I, I'll save it for cocktails. Alright,

1019
00:59:05,970 --> 00:59:06,250
we'll.

1020
00:59:06,250 --> 00:59:07,370
Do that. We'll do a part two.

1021
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,890
Yeah. Great. Perfect. Thank you
so much. Thank you for listening.

1022
00:59:11,890 --> 00:59:13,730
Thank you so much. You
did a phenomenal job.

1023
00:59:14,290 --> 00:59:15,010
<Laugh>. Thank you.

1024
00:59:15,010 --> 00:59:16,730
<Laugh>. Susan, I can't wait to meet you.

1025
00:59:17,250 --> 00:59:19,130
I right back at you.
I'm very excited. I'm.

1026
00:59:19,130 --> 00:59:21,420
Looking at your books. I wanna see if
I read any of the same, same books.

1027
00:59:21,420 --> 00:59:22,420
What do you got back there?

1028
00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:25,660
Uh, so many books. So many,
many, many, many books.

1029
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:26,780
Is that Kermit?

1030
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,420
Uh, no. This is a puppet.
Yes. But it's not ker me.

1031
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:31,640
Oh.

1032
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:36,380
He is green. However, um, yeah. All
sorts of, I'm a big reader. Are.

1033
00:59:36,380 --> 00:59:37,120
You?

1034
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:38,260
I'm a fan of books. Yeah.

1035
00:59:38,410 --> 00:59:41,460
Yeah, me too. I, I, you know, one
point, I think I read like every,

1036
00:59:42,020 --> 00:59:44,180
I must have read every
sci-fi book ever written.

1037
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:45,460
I went through a whole period of.

1038
00:59:45,930 --> 00:59:49,860
There's a whole section of,
uh, Neil here, Neil Stevenson.

1039
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,900
Wow. All right. We're definitely gonna
be buddies. Yeah. I can't wait from my,

1040
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:55,580
you never met my wife Julie?

1041
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,900
Not yet. No. I've, I only
know David so far. Oh, wait.

1042
00:59:58,900 --> 01:00:00,100
A minute. How do the hell do you know him?

1043
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,300
Uh, we met at a party last week.

1044
01:00:02,580 --> 01:00:04,820
<Laugh> you. Oh, wow.
You're old friends. Okay.

1045
01:00:05,170 --> 01:00:06,580
Yeah, we just hit it off, you know.

1046
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,340
Oh, that's great. That's
really fantastic. What I've.

1047
01:00:09,340 --> 01:00:11,180
Gotta say that I keep saying
this about Los Angeles.

1048
01:00:11,310 --> 01:00:14,220
Every person I have been
fortunate enough to meet,

1049
01:00:14,420 --> 01:00:17,140
I feel like I've known for a
thousand years. That's great.

1050
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,660
Wow. Yeah. That's great. Well, it,
well, God bless Dave's. Terrific.

1051
01:00:21,450 --> 01:00:23,780
Have a wonderful afternoon.
Enjoy your 4th of July.

1052
01:00:24,180 --> 01:00:28,280
I most certainly will. Hello? Hi,

1053
01:00:28,940 --> 01:00:31,600
how are you? Can you see me okay? Yeah.

1054
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:32,640
I can see you well, thanks.

1055
01:00:33,350 --> 01:00:34,020
Okay.

1056
01:00:34,020 --> 01:00:34,853
How you doing?

1057
01:00:35,300 --> 01:00:36,720
I'm okay. Yeah, it's.

1058
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,000
Good to see you. You look great.

1059
01:00:38,380 --> 01:00:39,800
Oh, thank you. So do you.

1060
01:00:40,060 --> 01:00:43,320
Thanks. I'm in a new place
from the last time we talked.

1061
01:00:43,580 --> 01:00:46,440
Is that right? It looks very
pretty. The carpet's nice and.

1062
01:00:46,690 --> 01:00:47,600
Thank you. Yeah.

1063
01:00:48,070 --> 01:00:49,880
It's a nice piece of artwork there on the.

1064
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:55,320
Actually my mother's college roommate
drew that really my last time I was at my

1065
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,760
parents' house, I was like, Hey
guys, that's down in the basement.

1066
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,360
Nobody ever looks at that. Can I take
it? And, uh, that's great. And say,

1067
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,760
let me take it. Yeah. It's pretty
fun. Anyway, enough about all that.

1068
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,840
I didn't know what we talked
about last time or down,

1069
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:11,160
I'm sure I'm gonna end
up being redundant, but.

1070
01:01:11,580 --> 01:01:15,040
So we recorded you were,

1071
01:01:15,260 --> 01:01:17,440
you had had finished
shooting the Comeback Trail.

1072
01:01:18,100 --> 01:01:19,720
Yes. Still hasn't come out yet.

1073
01:01:20,300 --> 01:01:21,840
It still has not come out, so.

1074
01:01:21,940 --> 01:01:25,560
No, it's impossible. It, it's so, it's
so horrible what's going Yeah, it's,

1075
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:26,520
it's tied up in a lawsuit.

1076
01:01:27,220 --> 01:01:28,520
Oh, no, I didn't know that.

1077
01:01:28,910 --> 01:01:33,840
Yeah, so it's an arbitration
going on and, uh, between the,

1078
01:01:33,980 --> 01:01:38,120
uh, distributor and the producers
and I, I don't know what the answer.

1079
01:01:38,750 --> 01:01:39,583
It's just terrible.

1080
01:01:40,270 --> 01:01:41,520
Yeah. I'm sorry about that.

1081
01:01:41,870 --> 01:01:42,960
It's a terrific movie.

1082
01:01:43,390 --> 01:01:46,760
Yeah, I know. Y'all are
really proud of it. And it is,

1083
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,800
I think it's something that people
don't realize that making the movie is,

1084
01:01:51,020 --> 01:01:55,800
is just one of the multitudes of
steps one takes in order to get a

1085
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:56,840
movie done and out.

1086
01:01:57,430 --> 01:02:00,920
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's
supposed to, in the meantime,

1087
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:02,800
I did two films that came out, you know?

1088
01:02:02,870 --> 01:02:03,920
Yeah. Ritual Killer.

1089
01:02:04,350 --> 01:02:06,800
Yeah. Which is not, I was told,

1090
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:12,000
I think it's was the number one video
on demand for two weeks. Not bad.

1091
01:02:12,380 --> 01:02:13,360
Congratulations.

1092
01:02:13,850 --> 01:02:16,840
Thank you. That was a
rough shoot in that, uh,

1093
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:21,980
I don't wanna speak disparagingly.
Let's put it this way. It, it, uh,

1094
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,820
it was difficult because, ah, shit,

1095
01:02:26,820 --> 01:02:27,940
I'll just say it. I,

1096
01:02:28,020 --> 01:02:31,940
I thought the script needed a
tremendous amount of work and, and, uh,

1097
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,140
and so we kind of, we
changed it as we went.

1098
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:40,880
So we were juggling a lot of things
while we were shooting. And, and I,

1099
01:02:41,020 --> 01:02:45,640
I'm happy with the outcome. I, I, uh,
the people who get it will really get it.

1100
01:02:45,740 --> 01:02:49,040
And the people who don't get it, it'll
just fly over their head. You know,

1101
01:02:49,380 --> 01:02:53,720
if you are a film buff, the way I,
I am a film buff. I love movies and,

1102
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:57,280
and I love painting and music
and, and literature. You know,

1103
01:02:57,590 --> 01:03:00,760
what I wanted to do with that
film was I wanted to, uh,

1104
01:03:00,890 --> 01:03:04,840
model it in a way where the,
the, the thrillers of today,

1105
01:03:05,620 --> 01:03:08,520
to me, it's interesting
because thrillers and, uh,

1106
01:03:09,190 --> 01:03:13,880
they tend to be the movies where
filmmakers stretch you, you know,

1107
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,920
because you can do all kinds of really
cool directorial things in the thriller

1108
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,440
that you can't really do in
a comedy. Cuz in a comedy,

1109
01:03:20,980 --> 01:03:23,440
you're trying to just tell the
story and make people laugh.

1110
01:03:23,460 --> 01:03:27,480
And if you start getting too,
let's say precious with, uh,

1111
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,760
a cinematic notions, you, you'll
detract from the laughs, you know,

1112
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,840
because you'll get caught
up in something else.

1113
01:03:35,460 --> 01:03:37,840
And I watched so many
thrillers, and I, cuz I,

1114
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:42,800
I haven't really done one like this
before, and I watched a bunch of them.

1115
01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:44,440
And the ones that I,

1116
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:48,600
I seemed to gravitate more towards were
the ones that were done in the seventies

1117
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:52,240
because like William
Friedkin movies, I, I,

1118
01:03:52,550 --> 01:03:57,400
they seemed far more
believable to me and less, uh,

1119
01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:59,880
I don't know how to
describe it, just less.

1120
01:04:00,630 --> 01:04:01,463
Formulaic.

1121
01:04:01,790 --> 01:04:05,640
Formulaic and tricky, you know?
And it tricked out directory,

1122
01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:10,760
you know, they're just, they're very
simply told. So I said, well, you know,

1123
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,040
what I'll do is I'll just tell this
one, like, one of those movies,

1124
01:04:14,070 --> 01:04:18,840
like a throwback to the seventies.
I'll just be very in your face,

1125
01:04:19,350 --> 01:04:23,440
very, uh, un I can't find the
word that I'm looking for.

1126
01:04:23,740 --> 01:04:27,520
Un almost like an yeah, unpretentious, uh,

1127
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,200
a very un uh, not self-conscious
way of making the movie. Like,

1128
01:04:32,300 --> 01:04:36,360
now I'll do this and I'll reflect
this off of that. And, you know, uh,

1129
01:04:36,620 --> 01:04:40,360
so I just told it in a very
sort of, uh, in your face way,

1130
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:45,840
and people who know those
movies really get what I did.

1131
01:04:45,940 --> 01:04:50,740
And the people who don't know
those movies won't get what,

1132
01:04:50,770 --> 01:04:54,430
they just won't get it. They
might think it's, I don't know.

1133
01:04:55,310 --> 01:04:56,870
I don't know what they'll think. But it,

1134
01:04:56,870 --> 01:05:01,350
it's definitely a throwback to a to
a very specific kind of filmmaking.

1135
01:05:02,070 --> 01:05:05,950
I feel like that time, I talk about
this a lot with my filmmaker friends,

1136
01:05:06,060 --> 01:05:10,670
that there was a time when
filmmakers allowed their

1137
01:05:10,870 --> 01:05:12,510
audiences to rise to the occasion.

1138
01:05:14,170 --> 01:05:18,620
Yes. That is not the case today.
Uh, I, I think audiences today,

1139
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,860
or not all of them, I don't mean to
speak paint with one broad brush,

1140
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,980
but a lot of people seem to
go online in trash movies.

1141
01:05:25,730 --> 01:05:29,540
They always talk about how bored they
are and that it's boring and that it's

1142
01:05:29,540 --> 01:05:32,740
boring and it's not moving quickly
and enough, and that it's boring.

1143
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,340
And they're, and it's bo it's
all they talk about, it's boring.

1144
01:05:35,860 --> 01:05:38,500
I fell asleep after five
minutes. I'm like, really?

1145
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:43,220
You are so exhausted as a human being
that five minutes of a movie knocked you

1146
01:05:43,220 --> 01:05:46,580
on your ass and made you go to sleep.
I dunno if I believe that. I, I,

1147
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,420
but I do think there's a, you
know, I'm not one, you know,

1148
01:05:50,420 --> 01:05:54,340
when I watch a movie that I need to see
72 different angles of a person drinking

1149
01:05:54,460 --> 01:05:56,540
a cup of coffee, you
know, to me it's like,

1150
01:05:57,300 --> 01:06:01,140
I don't understand all of
that cu stuff, you know,

1151
01:06:01,140 --> 01:06:05,220
unless you're making some sort of comment
on that type of filmmaking. You know,

1152
01:06:05,380 --> 01:06:05,500
I.

1153
01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:08,580
Think it works in a movie like everywhere.
Everything Everywhere all at once.

1154
01:06:08,580 --> 01:06:10,860
Because that yes, that, that made sense.

1155
01:06:11,610 --> 01:06:15,140
That movie in a lot of ways was
all about style and all kinds, but,

1156
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,660
but not every movie lends itself to
that kind of narrative. So, uh, yeah.

1157
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,660
You know, if you start covering
other types of stories that way,

1158
01:06:23,660 --> 01:06:27,140
it just might come off as ludicrous. At
least that, that's how I saw this. And,

1159
01:06:27,140 --> 01:06:27,973
and, uh.

1160
01:06:28,290 --> 01:06:32,540
Well, that's the issue of, of having
to cater to gold to the goldfish brain,

1161
01:06:33,150 --> 01:06:35,540
right? If you're catering
to the goldfish brain,

1162
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:40,060
you are in the conundrum of creating
the goldfish brain. What do you, what.

1163
01:06:40,060 --> 01:06:41,740
Does that mean? I've never
heard that before. Tell.

1164
01:06:41,740 --> 01:06:44,380
Me that. So the goldfish brain
is the brain that needs some,

1165
01:06:44,420 --> 01:06:47,220
a change of pay or has,
is for they say, goldfish,

1166
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,420
forget what they've seen or experienced
about every three to seven seconds.

1167
01:06:51,930 --> 01:06:56,420
Like, oh, a castle. Oh look, a castle.
Oh my God, there's a castle here.

1168
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,700
That's the goldfish brain. Right? Oh my.

1169
01:06:58,760 --> 01:06:59,593
God.

1170
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:04,460
And I think that unfortunately
we as a society, uh,

1171
01:07:05,610 --> 01:07:10,500
have not, we've allowed people
to eat paste for so long,

1172
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,180
and the people who've been eating the
paste have forgotten what steak tastes

1173
01:07:14,180 --> 01:07:17,900
like. A apologies to vegans everywhere,
but the metaphor No, that's ok.

1174
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:19,820
The metaphor stands is that,

1175
01:07:20,330 --> 01:07:24,620
that there are certain filmmakers
who are not afraid to serve a fine

1176
01:07:25,150 --> 01:07:27,540
eight course meal and say,

1177
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:32,660
do you remember when you
used to take in and taste

1178
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:36,780
and smell and see, and hear
and feel the experience?

1179
01:07:37,010 --> 01:07:40,340
It's a meditative process. We've
forgotten what that feels like.

1180
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:42,660
God bless you. Yeah. I
mean that, look, I mean,

1181
01:07:43,580 --> 01:07:48,500
I don't watch movies to be distracted.
I watch a film to go somewhere else.

1182
01:07:48,990 --> 01:07:51,940
Right? And if that somewhere
else is a soft, sweet,

1183
01:07:51,940 --> 01:07:56,280
wonderful place that needs
to take its time, you know,

1184
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,640
in order to lure me in or hypnotize
me in some way, then so be it.

1185
01:08:00,340 --> 01:08:04,680
But I don't watch movies to be
constantly stimulated and then constantly

1186
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:10,040
stimulated. If I'm not
constantly stimulated, I start
to get bored. And, and I,

1187
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,560
I just don't understand that I,
I'm, I always think to myself,

1188
01:08:13,620 --> 01:08:17,540
how would these people go to a museum
and look at paintings that are really

1189
01:08:17,780 --> 01:08:21,780
standing still? Yeah. I could look at
a, I could look at a great painting for,

1190
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:22,753
for an hour.

1191
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:27,540
You're also a painter and your
work has a lot of depth. You, you,

1192
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:32,180
in my opinion, as somebody who
has taken your work in you,

1193
01:08:32,710 --> 01:08:33,310
there are,

1194
01:08:33,310 --> 01:08:37,500
there are many levels to what's happening
between the color and the light and

1195
01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:41,300
the substance and the subject.
There's a lot happening.

1196
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:45,140
And it, it does, it does
any kind of art form. I,

1197
01:08:45,300 --> 01:08:48,980
I believe a disservice to, uh, again,

1198
01:08:49,060 --> 01:08:50,420
I go with the food metaphor.

1199
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:55,220
If you gobble down a seven course meal
in 30 seconds, what's the fucking point?

1200
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,940
No, you're a hundred percent right.
You know, I mean, whether you,

1201
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,140
you appreciate the Jackson
Pollock's work or not, you know,

1202
01:09:03,140 --> 01:09:07,660
Jackson Pollock said something
really profound in that.

1203
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:08,633
He said,

1204
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:13,740
in order to truly appreciate
a painting or a piece of

1205
01:09:13,740 --> 01:09:17,300
music, or a piece of literature, a
piece of art, you know, whatever it is,

1206
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:18,980
photograph movie,

1207
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:24,260
you have to find a way to leave
your personal shit at the door.

1208
01:09:25,370 --> 01:09:30,240
You know? And you have to view it
almost from the soul of a child

1209
01:09:31,020 --> 01:09:32,280
and allow it to come in.

1210
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,960
Because if you're sitting there and
you bring all your shit into the,

1211
01:09:36,190 --> 01:09:37,200
into the experience,

1212
01:09:37,790 --> 01:09:41,080
then all you're doing is fighting
it and fighting it and fighting it,

1213
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,400
and you're not letting
it work you emotionally.

1214
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,080
You're just thinking and
thinking and thinking,

1215
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,880
and you're trying to outthink
it, and then you get angry at it,

1216
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:52,520
and then you get bored with it. Because
who can sustain that for two hours,

1217
01:09:52,740 --> 01:09:56,800
you know, where this constant
fighting, and I, I, I think, I mean,

1218
01:09:57,180 --> 01:10:00,360
the fun of going to the
movies, at least for me,

1219
01:10:00,670 --> 01:10:05,000
this probably makes me sound like
Father time when we were younger,

1220
01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:05,970
okay.

1221
01:10:05,970 --> 01:10:10,840
Prior to cell phones and the internet
and all of this fucking nonsense that I

1222
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,600
just consider to be constant
distractions, you know,

1223
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:17,040
that you can't get out of your own head
for two seconds and you gotta make sure

1224
01:10:17,900 --> 01:10:22,440
if you're still relevant. And that's a,
that's like a mental illness. I mean,

1225
01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:24,400
that's, if every five seconds,

1226
01:10:24,460 --> 01:10:27,920
you gotta make sure that you're
still on everyone's minds. I mean,

1227
01:10:28,220 --> 01:10:32,440
the idea of going to the movies
was to become a captive audience.

1228
01:10:33,300 --> 01:10:37,520
It was to surrender to this
thing and completely take it in.

1229
01:10:37,580 --> 01:10:39,600
And then having hopefully done that,

1230
01:10:40,180 --> 01:10:43,920
you could make intelligent decisions
and have intelligent discussions

1231
01:10:44,850 --> 01:10:49,040
about what you just saw. Did it
reach you? Did it sweep you away?

1232
01:10:49,260 --> 01:10:51,840
Did it scare you? Did it make you think?

1233
01:10:52,540 --> 01:10:56,040
But if you're constantly like
this, gimme more, gimme more gimme.

1234
01:10:56,460 --> 01:11:00,160
You're not engaging with it. You have
to meet all of these things halfway,

1235
01:11:00,980 --> 01:11:04,600
you know, otherwise, there's just no
fucking point. I mean, of all movies,

1236
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,760
I went with a friend. We went to
see a James Bond movie. I mean,

1237
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,600
those movies move pretty quickly. And
this, this woman was sitting, uh, uh,

1238
01:11:12,690 --> 01:11:16,300
about a two hours and she was
just constantly on the phone.

1239
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,660
And why did she go to the theater? She
should have just sat in the lobby Right.

1240
01:11:20,660 --> 01:11:25,060
And talked to her friends. I, I don't,
I mean, look, it's her life. But I, I,

1241
01:11:25,180 --> 01:11:28,900
I don't understand it. I I, it,
it sort of depresses me. Yeah.

1242
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:32,580
It is depressing. And I mean, we spoke
about this the last time we talked,

1243
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:34,620
is that, did we, yeah. That movies.

1244
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,300
Why I haven't changed much in the last.

1245
01:11:36,820 --> 01:11:40,540
<Laugh>. Well, no, I mean, that movies
are a com. Uh, uh, it's a communion.

1246
01:11:41,130 --> 01:11:45,780
It's, it's a, it's a letting go. It's
a vulnerability. We as, as viewers,

1247
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:50,660
become vulnerable to the story
that's being told to us. And also,

1248
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:56,180
as you pointed out, to be able to take
our ego out of it. But at the same time,

1249
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:58,033
the whole time,

1250
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:03,180
we can touch ourselves through the
lens of this other human. It's,

1251
01:12:03,180 --> 01:12:06,820
it's like this great lesson in
humanity when we walk out of a theater.

1252
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:11,500
Oh my God, this writer felt
things I've felt, or this, this,

1253
01:12:11,530 --> 01:12:15,260
this director or this cinematographer.
Right. They saw the world the way,

1254
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,940
way I see it. What a, what a
beautiful communion that is.

1255
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,020
Yes. And, and ultimately,
I can't think of a,

1256
01:12:22,020 --> 01:12:26,100
a better way to spend your time is to it.
It is. It's, it's a shared experience.

1257
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:31,420
And you walk out feeling better about
life, better about yourself. You, uh,

1258
01:12:32,220 --> 01:12:33,700
I mean, which is, or.

1259
01:12:33,700 --> 01:12:38,020
Worse or worse, I went, or worse. Yeah.
I saw, I saw the movie, the Irish movie,

1260
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:43,180
uh, the Quiet Girl, uh, in the theater,
uh, when I was in Nashville. And,

1261
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:49,180
uh, at the end of that, it's a beautiful,
it's such a beautiful movie. It, it's,

1262
01:12:49,230 --> 01:12:53,780
it'll make your heart fall out. But it's
beautiful. And the thing about it is,

1263
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:58,660
having my heart fall out reminds me of
what it feels like to be a human being on

1264
01:12:58,660 --> 01:13:03,340
this planet. Yeah. And I sat and I
cried for a good, you know, five,

1265
01:13:03,340 --> 01:13:04,173
six minutes.

1266
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:05,193
God bless you.

1267
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:06,620
And then I collected myself,

1268
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:11,020
and I went out and I met my friend in the
lobby who had to go to the bathroom to

1269
01:13:11,020 --> 01:13:11,853
wipe her eyes.

1270
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:17,260
And we talked about that film for an
hour or two afterward as we went on the

1271
01:13:17,260 --> 01:13:21,100
rest of our evening. And that's, to me,

1272
01:13:21,690 --> 01:13:26,300
such a gorgeous experience. That's
why, that's why every, that's why the,

1273
01:13:26,440 --> 01:13:30,340
the Greeks believe that the gods were
whispering in their ears. You know, God.

1274
01:13:30,470 --> 01:13:31,303
Bless you.

1275
01:13:32,580 --> 01:13:33,360
<Laugh>.

1276
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:36,660
No, I mean it, I don't get to hear
this that often. Good for you, pal.

1277
01:13:37,090 --> 01:13:40,420
Good for you. Give you, give me
hope. People like you give me hope.

1278
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:45,500
Cuz sometimes I just think the human
race is fucking done. And I just.

1279
01:13:46,050 --> 01:13:49,460
It's up to people who create
to lift them out of that.

1280
01:13:49,490 --> 01:13:52,780
They don't have to just stare at
shadows. Yeah. You know, Plato,

1281
01:13:52,780 --> 01:13:55,900
they don't have to just, they can
actually experience the reality of,

1282
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,060
of their feelings and their
experiences and all this stuff,

1283
01:13:59,250 --> 01:14:01,420
even if it's in a conduit sense.

1284
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:05,420
And that goes for silly little comedies
too, because sometimes we forget.

1285
01:14:05,900 --> 01:14:09,380
<Crosstalk>. Cause you could say a lot,
making people laugh. What, what I'm,

1286
01:14:09,380 --> 01:14:13,350
what I'm, what I'm stunned
about. And I'm very, uh,

1287
01:14:13,540 --> 01:14:16,950
hopeful when I hear you talk, when, when
you even talk about Greek mythology.

1288
01:14:17,100 --> 01:14:18,470
Like, cuz I love all that stuff.

1289
01:14:18,630 --> 01:14:23,150
I think all great storytelling goes
back to that, you know, Hollywood is in,

1290
01:14:23,150 --> 01:14:25,710
in many ways is sort of a
brain dead place. You know,

1291
01:14:26,210 --> 01:14:30,910
for a place that's supposed to be
a, a, a manufacturer of, of, of,

1292
01:14:31,090 --> 01:14:33,500
uh, of entertainment. You know,

1293
01:14:33,500 --> 01:14:38,420
when you start talking about Icarus
or Dataless and you could see the

1294
01:14:38,420 --> 01:14:40,060
fucking, they're glazed over,

1295
01:14:40,060 --> 01:14:44,100
they don't know what the fuck you're
talking about. I get like, okay,

1296
01:14:44,810 --> 01:14:49,080
well I can't help you if you
don't, you know, if you don't,

1297
01:14:49,140 --> 01:14:52,160
if you can't go back to the, well, if
you don't know where it all starts,

1298
01:14:52,340 --> 01:14:54,200
you know, I, I, you know what I mean?

1299
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:56,800
I do know what you mean.
But there is the hope.

1300
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,680
I think that if they have not
drunk, drunk from that, well,

1301
01:15:02,110 --> 01:15:06,960
that whatever they're seeing or hearing
or experiencing in the moment will

1302
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:11,680
then somehow spark that thing,
that God moment in their own brain.

1303
01:15:12,180 --> 01:15:14,360
And I don't mean God
religious, I mean God.

1304
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:15,880
I know what you mean. Yeah.

1305
01:15:16,340 --> 01:15:19,520
The, all, everything that then
will make them go, well, I wonder,

1306
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,440
I wonder what that that's
about. And have them,

1307
01:15:22,740 --> 01:15:27,120
it elicit a desire to go
deeper, not only in themselves,

1308
01:15:27,340 --> 01:15:27,840
but in the.

1309
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:30,200
World. Oh, good for
you. God bless you, pal.

1310
01:15:30,380 --> 01:15:32,360
But I think they're out there.
I think there are people.

1311
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:34,240
I, I could, I'm looking
forward to meeting them.

1312
01:15:34,350 --> 01:15:35,200
Tell me about, we,

1313
01:15:35,380 --> 01:15:38,440
the one thing we didn't talk about really
the last time we chatted, and again,

1314
01:15:38,470 --> 01:15:42,720
it's been two years, if you could
believe it. Uh, that you paint,

1315
01:15:42,900 --> 01:15:43,733
as I mentioned.

1316
01:15:43,940 --> 01:15:48,320
And I think it's interesting because
a lot of people with a creative,

1317
01:15:48,330 --> 01:15:52,800
especially one who is as prolific as
you are in a particular medium, right?

1318
01:15:52,900 --> 01:15:57,160
As a filmmaker and a writer
are that they think, oh,

1319
01:15:57,190 --> 01:15:58,360
well that's your lane.

1320
01:15:58,900 --> 01:16:03,800
And here you are expressing and creating
beautiful things in, in paintings.

1321
01:16:05,300 --> 01:16:07,600
Did you experience any kind
of pushback? Like, oh no,

1322
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,800
you can't be both things or you can't
be seven things. You have to be.

1323
01:16:10,860 --> 01:16:13,960
Oh, I, I, listen, I, I, I'm
also a musician. You know, I,

1324
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:17,760
I don't pay attention to that
stuff. And it's funny in that it's,

1325
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:21,880
it's interesting that a person who,
it's interesting maybe, perhaps,

1326
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:24,600
I don't know that for me,

1327
01:16:24,870 --> 01:16:29,450
that the word artist is not something
that I would generally self apply,

1328
01:16:30,150 --> 01:16:33,250
you know? But even though I write
screenplays, I direct movies,

1329
01:16:33,410 --> 01:16:38,130
I paint pictures, I play various musical
instruments. I do. And I love doing it.

1330
01:16:38,770 --> 01:16:42,690
I never thought the reasons why I do it,

1331
01:16:42,690 --> 01:16:46,930
other than I really just love
doing it. You know? And I never,

1332
01:16:47,410 --> 01:16:51,850
I never saw any of this stuff as
a way to make money. I mean, the,

1333
01:16:51,990 --> 01:16:54,250
I'm not saying that everything
I, I ever did. I didn't,

1334
01:16:54,690 --> 01:16:57,730
I didn't do a few jobs for money
here and there. I did certainly.

1335
01:16:57,790 --> 01:17:00,130
But I don't know, I just always felt like

1336
01:17:01,650 --> 01:17:04,730
I just did these things as
I wanted to, and I had to.

1337
01:17:05,710 --> 01:17:09,340
And I don't know exactly
what it all means and,

1338
01:17:09,440 --> 01:17:13,580
and why one does this. I mean,
you know, sometimes I think,

1339
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:19,810
you know, you have to be pretty
committed, you know, to, to,

1340
01:17:20,510 --> 01:17:24,650
you know, I'm always thinking about
colors and paint application and design,

1341
01:17:24,810 --> 01:17:27,410
I think of a lot. And, you know,

1342
01:17:27,570 --> 01:17:31,690
playing one edge off another
edge in a painting and, and, uh,

1343
01:17:32,350 --> 01:17:34,850
you know, focal points
and center of interests.

1344
01:17:35,190 --> 01:17:40,050
And how do you tell the
deepest story with just one

1345
01:17:40,060 --> 01:17:44,290
image? You know, like, uh, and I have
all these thoughts for paintings. Like,

1346
01:17:44,290 --> 01:17:46,250
they'll just, I don't
know where they come from.

1347
01:17:46,250 --> 01:17:50,130
They'll come where something
touches me. And I don't know why. I,

1348
01:17:50,170 --> 01:17:53,330
I did a painting, uh,
a couple of years ago.

1349
01:17:53,370 --> 01:17:56,850
I was walking on the beach
down in Zuma Beach and I,

1350
01:17:57,090 --> 01:18:00,970
I walking in beautiful.
But it was late in the day,

1351
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:05,490
long shadows and seaweed,
you emerald green, you know,

1352
01:18:05,490 --> 01:18:08,330
mixed with the blue of
the water. And, and I,

1353
01:18:08,410 --> 01:18:13,280
I came upon these giant rocks
and there was a wedding going on.

1354
01:18:14,150 --> 01:18:18,180
There was a, uh, like, and maybe
six people just by the water.

1355
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:23,180
And they were getting married. And I
was like, wow, what an image this is.

1356
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:25,420
You know, the sun was just blasting

1357
01:18:27,700 --> 01:18:31,100
a against these figures.
And I, so I painted it, you
know, I did it from memory.

1358
01:18:31,380 --> 01:18:35,460
I, I, uh, you know, I ran home and I
started drawing all these pictures of,

1359
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:38,580
you know, these figures on this big beach.

1360
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:43,220
And she was wearing a wedding gown
and he was wearing a tuxedo. I mean,

1361
01:18:43,220 --> 01:18:46,220
it was just fun. You know, I, what
does it mean? I, I don't know.

1362
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,100
But it touched me in a, in some way,
and I wanted to paint it. It's so,

1363
01:18:50,140 --> 01:18:50,900
I don't know, man, I,

1364
01:18:50,900 --> 01:18:54,340
I just do these things cuz they
mean something to me personally.

1365
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,380
And then hopefully they mean something
to somebody else. I, I think,

1366
01:18:59,460 --> 01:19:04,460
I think the mistake you can make if
you're an artist is that you start to dig

1367
01:19:04,540 --> 01:19:09,270
a hole for yourself and
then you have to do these

1368
01:19:09,270 --> 01:19:12,940
things for you first.
And, and that's like the,

1369
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:16,380
the opposite of narcissism,
if it makes any narcissism,

1370
01:19:16,440 --> 01:19:18,380
is doing something to,

1371
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:22,900
to be light or to fill
some hole in yourself.

1372
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,100
And that's non-ending. That never stops.

1373
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:30,420
If you're constantly singing for
your supper to get some sort of, uh,

1374
01:19:30,420 --> 01:19:34,380
some sort of emotional
payoff that is never enough.

1375
01:19:34,490 --> 01:19:38,180
That to me is like a narcissistic thing.

1376
01:19:38,380 --> 01:19:41,740
I can never get enough applause.
I can never get enough love.

1377
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,380
And it's about me and me and me and I,

1378
01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:50,220
the opposite of that to me is, is I
hate to use words like brave cuz I,

1379
01:19:50,220 --> 01:19:53,900
when it comes to the arts, I always
think like the artist is brave. I'm like,

1380
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:54,700
no,

1381
01:19:54,700 --> 01:19:59,420
a brave person is a is a person
who volunteers to go into a burning

1382
01:19:59,700 --> 01:20:04,260
building to save a child. That's brave.
Okay. I don't know if I could do that,

1383
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:07,380
you know? But, but I would say, uh,

1384
01:20:08,460 --> 01:20:13,420
a more lonely approach, uh, is
that you do it for you first.

1385
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,340
And, and, and if it, and if you,

1386
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:20,180
and if you're honest with yourself
and you're honest in the way you do

1387
01:20:20,180 --> 01:20:24,740
everything, then you,
people will respond to it.

1388
01:20:25,700 --> 01:20:30,480
You know? And the more you
learn to trust that thing where

1389
01:20:31,060 --> 01:20:35,160
you know you're getting it, you
know, not like, what do you think?

1390
01:20:35,860 --> 01:20:39,440
Am I any good? Will you love me
another 10 minutes? You know? Um,

1391
01:20:40,420 --> 01:20:43,320
if you're not doing it that way,
but you're doing it for you first.

1392
01:20:43,380 --> 01:20:48,040
And it's like a muscle that
you start to strengthen and

1393
01:20:48,420 --> 01:20:52,200
you know, when you're getting it and
you know when you have a good idea. And,

1394
01:20:52,340 --> 01:20:56,280
and, and if somebody else doesn't get
it, they don't fucking get it. It's like,

1395
01:20:56,740 --> 01:21:00,320
that's okay. You know?
That's okay. I, I just,

1396
01:21:01,370 --> 01:21:04,080
where I wished people were
different and, you know,

1397
01:21:04,090 --> 01:21:06,830
human beings were different is that they,

1398
01:21:06,900 --> 01:21:11,150
they judge very harshly and
say horribly mean things,

1399
01:21:12,010 --> 01:21:16,310
but about people who are doing
stuff. I think ultimately,

1400
01:21:17,090 --> 01:21:21,550
if you're a creative person, a really
creative person, you don't talk that way.

1401
01:21:22,700 --> 01:21:27,210
Only a non-creative person could
say, add that shit cuz the second,

1402
01:21:27,830 --> 01:21:32,650
you know what it's like to write
something the second you try to paint

1403
01:21:32,650 --> 01:21:34,210
something, you know,

1404
01:21:34,340 --> 01:21:38,930
those are places you don't go anymore
because you appreciate when somebody else

1405
01:21:39,270 --> 01:21:43,530
is doing something. Well, cuz
how fucking hard it is, you know?

1406
01:21:43,790 --> 01:21:46,970
And even if you're really good
at something, it's still hard.

1407
01:21:47,390 --> 01:21:48,490
It doesn't get easier.

1408
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:51,890
Just because you had a good day
yesterday doesn't mean shit today.

1409
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,490
When you're in for the long
haul as an artist, something.

1410
01:21:55,490 --> 01:21:59,130
That you can't not do. Uh,
that's the other thing of it.

1411
01:21:59,550 --> 01:22:02,090
And maybe it's not even
inside of you. Maybe it's,

1412
01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:06,410
it might be some sort of loop to the
universe going and it's going through you

1413
01:22:06,430 --> 01:22:09,730
and then back out again. And
is has little to do with you.

1414
01:22:09,730 --> 01:22:13,290
You're just the one holding the
paintbrush or the, you know,

1415
01:22:13,290 --> 01:22:15,090
the computer keyboard. But I.

1416
01:22:15,090 --> 01:22:18,370
Can't just think that, cause
I, I, I think that, uh,

1417
01:22:20,460 --> 01:22:22,520
if you're doing it the
right way, if you're not,

1418
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,740
if you're not doing it
the other way, you know,

1419
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:29,420
which is you're in your head. But
if you're doing it the right way,

1420
01:22:31,310 --> 01:22:35,270
I feel, I don't know how to describe it.

1421
01:22:35,310 --> 01:22:38,850
I feel very close to God. You know,

1422
01:22:40,010 --> 01:22:44,290
I feel like I'm in the best possible
hands when I've stripped away all that

1423
01:22:44,610 --> 01:22:48,040
bullshit. You know? And you don't
get to feel that way that often,

1424
01:22:48,500 --> 01:22:51,000
except in the moment
of creating something,

1425
01:22:51,500 --> 01:22:55,280
in the moment of truly loving another
person. But those are rare things,

1426
01:22:55,340 --> 01:22:59,000
you know? Uh, generally,
you know, you're trying to,

1427
01:23:00,980 --> 01:23:04,440
you know, you're trying to negotiate and
you're trying to get through life and,

1428
01:23:04,440 --> 01:23:08,460
you know, uh, but those moments where
you're really still, and you go, okay,

1429
01:23:08,480 --> 01:23:13,460
I'm gonna connect to this other thing,
whatever that thing is, and, uh,

1430
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:16,410
try to say something in, in,

1431
01:23:16,790 --> 01:23:21,790
in a language that in some ways
hasn't even been spoken yet.

1432
01:23:21,850 --> 01:23:25,030
You know, you're trying to
reach for something, you know,

1433
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:27,970
and you're going deep inside. And that's,

1434
01:23:29,050 --> 01:23:31,510
that's like spiritual stuff. I think.

1435
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:36,510
There is a universal language to
truth with a capital t I think when

1436
01:23:36,510 --> 01:23:39,870
anyone experiences truth
with a capital T in anything,

1437
01:23:40,580 --> 01:23:43,150
they recognize it on a, um,

1438
01:23:44,170 --> 01:23:45,990
on a deep d n a level.

1439
01:23:46,500 --> 01:23:49,170
Yeah, they do. They do.

1440
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:50,633
Yeah.

1441
01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:54,730
And it, there's no bullshit in it, you
know? And how often does that happen?

1442
01:23:54,750 --> 01:23:56,970
You know, I may have said
this quote last time,

1443
01:23:57,670 --> 01:24:02,660
but one of my favorite quotes is
from a guy named Robert Henri.

1444
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:04,380
Did we talk about this? Mm.

1445
01:24:04,460 --> 01:24:05,000
I don't think so.

1446
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,060
Robert Henri wrote a book
called The Art Spirit,

1447
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,180
and he was a teacher, uh, at the, uh,

1448
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:17,350
at the art students league, uh, in
like, probably in the early 19 hundreds.

1449
01:24:17,410 --> 01:24:19,430
And he, he, uh,

1450
01:24:19,770 --> 01:24:24,550
his students were some of like the
greatest American painters of 20th

1451
01:24:24,550 --> 01:24:28,670
century. When you look at his list
of students, it's like Jesus Christ,

1452
01:24:28,730 --> 01:24:30,430
the people that he inspired.

1453
01:24:31,530 --> 01:24:36,390
And my favorite quote of his was,
and he was a great painter himself.

1454
01:24:37,490 --> 01:24:41,990
He said, uh, he never
set out to do good work,

1455
01:24:42,810 --> 01:24:46,110
but instead lived a life where
good work would become inevitable.

1456
01:24:47,940 --> 01:24:51,480
And I think that to me is a great
way as an artist to live your life.

1457
01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:54,600
It's like every day you're
just kind of in that space,

1458
01:24:54,910 --> 01:24:57,800
whether you're doing it or not.
And you're always staying true.

1459
01:24:58,780 --> 01:25:01,800
You're always saying true. You don't
fill the brain up with bullshit.

1460
01:25:02,220 --> 01:25:06,880
You keep that well clean and that's the
well you're dipping from. And if you,

1461
01:25:07,260 --> 01:25:09,440
and if you think that way
and you live that way,

1462
01:25:10,100 --> 01:25:13,440
you kind of end up having to do good
work. It does. You, you can't not.

1463
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:18,000
I think anytime you're creating something,
getting out of one's own way, own,

1464
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,920
because the mind is a, is a
liar, <laugh>, a lot of times.

1465
01:25:22,270 --> 01:25:22,560
Well,

1466
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:27,480
mind is a complete fucking liar because
the mind to me gets attached to ego.

1467
01:25:28,140 --> 01:25:32,600
And once ego comes into anything, yeah,
fuck, it just destroys everything.

1468
01:25:32,940 --> 01:25:37,240
It destroys relationships. It
certainly destroys art. You know,

1469
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:39,400
I know people who,

1470
01:25:40,190 --> 01:25:44,640
they get stuck and they keep making
the same mistakes decade after decade.

1471
01:25:44,900 --> 01:25:48,560
I'm in my sixties now, okay? So
I can say decade after decade.

1472
01:25:48,670 --> 01:25:52,520
They just don't grow. They don't
grow very much as artists. They,

1473
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,280
their lives don't grow
because they stay stuck.

1474
01:25:55,830 --> 01:25:59,400
Well, curious mind will serve
one until their last breath.

1475
01:26:00,060 --> 01:26:03,300
Yes. I don't can I don't
take this the wrong way. I,

1476
01:26:03,380 --> 01:26:06,340
I don't remember you being this
smart. I don't re I, I mean,

1477
01:26:06,660 --> 01:26:10,500
I hope you take that the right way. I, I
had a lot of fun in the last interview,

1478
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,420
but this is like, man,
oh man, you, you really,

1479
01:26:14,470 --> 01:26:16,330
you really think about
this stuff, don't you?

1480
01:26:16,690 --> 01:26:19,730
I do. Thank you. It's a very
sweet of you to say. No, I.

1481
01:26:19,730 --> 01:26:23,050
Meant, I mean it, I meant it. I dunno
if it came out the right way. I just.

1482
01:26:23,050 --> 01:26:25,770
Oh, it's a, it's a huge compliment.
I appreciate it. Yeah. Um.

1483
01:26:25,970 --> 01:26:30,610
I don't get to talk to many people
who are like on this sp on this

1484
01:26:30,660 --> 01:26:31,690
wavelength, you know,

1485
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:34,810
because a lot of times when you
have these deeper conversations,

1486
01:26:34,830 --> 01:26:39,530
people get nervous and they disengage
a lot, I noticed. And I think, but.

1487
01:26:39,530 --> 01:26:43,650
They, they get nervous because they're
afraid. As, as you pointed out, when you,

1488
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:45,890
when you walk into a room,

1489
01:26:45,890 --> 01:26:48,490
you're okay with not being the
smartest person in the room.

1490
01:26:48,550 --> 01:26:51,850
And I think people are really afraid to
be looked at as not the smartest person

1491
01:26:51,850 --> 01:26:54,730
in the room. But see, if you
come in, again, that's ego.

1492
01:26:54,870 --> 01:26:57,770
If you come in with
that bubble around you,

1493
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:03,090
it's certainly gonna limit
your life on a lot of levels.

1494
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:08,130
Yeah. Because you'll never grow.
How do you grow if you're not open?

1495
01:27:09,230 --> 01:27:10,790
I don't know. I don't know.

1496
01:27:11,410 --> 01:27:12,243
Uh.

1497
01:27:12,350 --> 01:27:15,830
I think curiosity is a, is
a beautiful thing, you know?

1498
01:27:16,090 --> 01:27:19,870
And why would we limit
ourselves and say, no,

1499
01:27:19,870 --> 01:27:23,950
I don't wanna know that today. Or
I don't wanna be that today. No,

1500
01:27:24,370 --> 01:27:29,110
as much as possible be as
much as possible. That's
why, that's why we're here.

1501
01:27:29,620 --> 01:27:30,390
Yeah. This.

1502
01:27:30,390 --> 01:27:31,230
Is the whole point of it.

1503
01:27:31,420 --> 01:27:35,310
That was something that really stood
out to me with your artwork. Uh, when,

1504
01:27:35,700 --> 01:27:39,750
when your lovely wife Julie started
posting when I started pulling her on

1505
01:27:39,990 --> 01:27:43,430
Facebook. And she's a huge champion,
obviously, of you. And, uh,

1506
01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:44,710
she posts your paintings.

1507
01:27:44,810 --> 01:27:49,750
And I thought what's really interesting
about your work is that although it is

1508
01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:53,590
a tangible image, you
know, it's usually a,

1509
01:27:53,790 --> 01:27:57,670
a landscape and buildings and, you
know, cottages and these, and pastoral,

1510
01:27:57,770 --> 01:28:02,030
you know, that kind of thing. But
there was, there's a mysticism to,

1511
01:28:02,390 --> 01:28:05,270
I don't know what you do to those
paintings, but they have like,

1512
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:09,870
this thing that comes off of them
that feels very mystical to me

1513
01:28:10,130 --> 01:28:11,390
at least. That's.

1514
01:28:11,390 --> 01:28:15,670
Very, that's very kind. I feel
the same way about those places.

1515
01:28:16,590 --> 01:28:21,540
I feel espe I did a, a bunch of the
ones, the ones that you're talking about,

1516
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:23,980
uh, especially I,

1517
01:28:25,170 --> 01:28:27,570
I feel it's very interesting.

1518
01:28:27,730 --> 01:28:31,130
A lot of things go through my
mind when I'm painting. Uh, not,

1519
01:28:31,130 --> 01:28:33,610
not as much when I'm,
I'm writing cuz you know,

1520
01:28:34,190 --> 01:28:38,170
the writing is more like I'm entertaining
myself or I'm making myself laugh.

1521
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:40,690
You know, the, the painting
to me is a deeper place.

1522
01:28:41,570 --> 01:28:46,490
A lot of those places that I paint that
I have those feelings about are places

1523
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:52,060
that I visited as a child
and went back to as an

1524
01:28:52,110 --> 01:28:53,980
adult when I made the paintings.

1525
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:58,620
And when I'm making those paintings,

1526
01:28:58,780 --> 01:29:00,820
a lot of thoughts go through my head, like

1527
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:04,020
how quick life goes by,

1528
01:29:05,220 --> 01:29:08,400
how much has changed since the
last time I've seen these places.

1529
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:13,640
I may never come back to these
places again. I, I, I get,

1530
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:17,760
I get very aware of my
mortality and you know,

1531
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:22,280
it's a shame cuz I can't imagine the
world without me in it, <laugh>, but, uh,

1532
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:26,280
<laugh>. But, but I,

1533
01:29:26,990 --> 01:29:29,840
that was a joke. I, I, but I do,

1534
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,280
I feel like you say mystical,

1535
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:38,400
I feel some sense of tremendous beauty and

1536
01:29:38,750 --> 01:29:42,750
longing and, uh, I feel, uh,

1537
01:29:43,940 --> 01:29:47,450
a sense of gain and a sense of loss.

1538
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:51,980
Certainly there's something
melancholy about it to me, you know,

1539
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:56,950
and I'm feeling those things and
I'm sure it's getting into the

1540
01:29:57,020 --> 01:30:01,920
work. You know, like if I see
some old barn in, in a field, uh,

1541
01:30:02,660 --> 01:30:04,000
you know, I think about, man,

1542
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:08,720
that barn was built 180 years ago that
the person that first built that frame

1543
01:30:09,300 --> 01:30:13,400
was long gone. And who even
knows who that person is? I mean,

1544
01:30:14,060 --> 01:30:17,800
you know, and they're on the ground
and they're gone and they're, there's,

1545
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:22,360
does their family know about this? And,
you know, I get, and I, but you know,

1546
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:26,880
it's funny, I, I, uh, I had
those feelings even as a kid.

1547
01:30:27,940 --> 01:30:29,000
And I guess everyone's,

1548
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:32,880
I mean obviously everyone's different
and some kids are more in, uh,

1549
01:30:33,090 --> 01:30:37,680
let's say in tune with something
or attuned to something. Uh,

1550
01:30:37,790 --> 01:30:39,280
I'll give you, for instance,

1551
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:43,250
I have never told this to
anybody that I can remember,

1552
01:30:43,510 --> 01:30:48,230
but when I was a little kid, we
were in a car. My parents and I,

1553
01:30:48,290 --> 01:30:52,870
we were driving Aou around in
Washington, outside of Washington,

1554
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:56,390
Washington DC in a suburb.

1555
01:30:56,970 --> 01:31:01,550
And our car pulled up next to an old man

1556
01:31:01,930 --> 01:31:04,270
cuz my father was lost.
And he wanted directions.

1557
01:31:06,150 --> 01:31:10,810
And it was this old man standing
on a corner, impeccably dressed.

1558
01:31:10,910 --> 01:31:13,770
It was on a Sunday and it
was sort of a gray day,

1559
01:31:15,740 --> 01:31:20,490
impeccably dressed with a hat, you know,
and a beautiful scarf. I just like,

1560
01:31:20,490 --> 01:31:24,650
I remember like it was yesterday
in a beautiful raincoat. And uh,

1561
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,210
obviously he was wearing a
suit underneath, you know,

1562
01:31:27,350 --> 01:31:30,050
and you could see his perfectly, uh,

1563
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:33,130
pressed pants and shiny shoes.

1564
01:31:34,230 --> 01:31:38,720
And he had such a class about him.

1565
01:31:39,460 --> 01:31:43,200
And my father asked him for directions
and he was very soft spoken.

1566
01:31:43,740 --> 01:31:47,040
Had to be in his, I would say
like, certainly in his eighties,

1567
01:31:47,540 --> 01:31:49,960
but like a super well preserved eighties,

1568
01:31:50,150 --> 01:31:53,600
like really beautifully,

1569
01:31:55,660 --> 01:31:59,900
uh, tremendous pride in this man, you
know, like nicely manicured nails.

1570
01:31:59,900 --> 01:32:04,700
And he was talking with his hands, he
was showing my dad the directions. And,

1571
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:09,860
and then we drove away. And I remember
looking at him in, in the rear,

1572
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:13,300
in the back of the car as a little
kid getting smaller and smaller on the

1573
01:32:13,300 --> 01:32:17,460
street. And I never told,
even told Julie this.

1574
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:22,820
Uh, and I knew I was never
going to see that man again. I,

1575
01:32:22,940 --> 01:32:24,780
I must have been like
six or seven years old.

1576
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:29,380
But I felt such a deep
connection to that guy, you know?

1577
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:32,960
And that I, I, as a early on as a kid,

1578
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:38,520
I started to see this again,
it, it's not even explainable,

1579
01:32:38,660 --> 01:32:43,550
but I saw the sort of bigger
picture of life and I was very

1580
01:32:43,550 --> 01:32:45,950
emotionally impacted by
these things. You know,

1581
01:32:45,950 --> 01:32:49,190
I could tell you lots of
stories like that, you know,

1582
01:32:49,490 --> 01:32:51,830
and I try to put that in the work.

1583
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:54,250
What you're describing to me,

1584
01:32:54,550 --> 01:32:58,890
and the feeling I get when I look
at your work is a sense of brigadoon

1585
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:03,190
that you have been gifted a
moment and then it's gonna,

1586
01:33:03,410 --> 01:33:07,310
and then trying to find that moment
again. Yeah. Might be impossible.

1587
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:12,050
Right? No, yeah, I know what you
mean. I know. You mean there's like,

1588
01:33:12,050 --> 01:33:15,290
there's places I want to go
back to. I, it's funny, like I,

1589
01:33:17,260 --> 01:33:21,270
there's this old broken down stonewall
in upstate New York. It's probably with,

1590
01:33:21,290 --> 01:33:21,590
you know,

1591
01:33:21,590 --> 01:33:25,070
like give those where they pile those
stones on and they kind of go zigzaggy

1592
01:33:25,070 --> 01:33:29,910
through hillsides and stuff. And I
remember years ago, years ago, years ago,

1593
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:34,230
years ago, I, I'm in my late sixties now,

1594
01:33:35,050 --> 01:33:35,750
and then I,

1595
01:33:35,750 --> 01:33:39,590
I must have been early twenties and
I was lugging all this painting gear,

1596
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:44,660
you know, when I was a stronger man, I
could carry all that shit around and,

1597
01:33:44,660 --> 01:33:48,220
but I couldn't paint, you know?
So that, that's the sort of the,

1598
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:51,620
the tragic irony of
youth. It's uh, you know,

1599
01:33:51,620 --> 01:33:55,060
you're filled with piss and vinegar
and you can't really do it yet.

1600
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:58,540
And then you get older. Now it's
more difficult for me to carry the,

1601
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:03,330
the gear cuz everything hurts, but I
could paint the shit out of it now,

1602
01:34:03,330 --> 01:34:06,450
you know, <laugh>, I just have to
get there and carry all the stuff.

1603
01:34:07,230 --> 01:34:11,230
But I think about that wall
once in a while that I sat on.

1604
01:34:11,310 --> 01:34:14,750
I remember I was so fucking and tired
and I just sat on this wall with all this

1605
01:34:14,820 --> 01:34:19,630
shit tripod and bags of paint
and wind blowing this canvas

1606
01:34:19,690 --> 01:34:23,150
around with some ugly, horrible
thing I'd tried to paint. And I,

1607
01:34:23,590 --> 01:34:26,510
I remember looking at this wall and I
was like, oh no, there's a painting.

1608
01:34:26,540 --> 01:34:31,430
Look at that thing. Zigzags up that
hill and it's like, into these clouds,

1609
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:35,390
it almost looks like heaven. And there
were some crows flying in the distance.

1610
01:34:35,390 --> 01:34:39,710
And I was like, man, if I could just
capture that now that says something.

1611
01:34:40,490 --> 01:34:44,510
And I think about it a lot. And I mean,
I think about it once a week. I like to,

1612
01:34:44,510 --> 01:34:46,430
I'd like to go back there.
I just gotta find it.

1613
01:34:46,870 --> 01:34:50,630
I know all I know it's off
route 18 a uh, but I'll find,

1614
01:34:50,630 --> 01:34:53,350
if I were to drive around up
there, I'm sure I'd find. But, uh,

1615
01:34:53,630 --> 01:34:54,750
I think about things like that.

1616
01:34:55,250 --> 01:34:59,900
You are present in your life. That's
the, that's the misfortune of, yes,

1617
01:34:59,900 --> 01:35:04,780
these handheld computers do a lot for
us, but the one thing they can't do is,

1618
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:08,260
is see everything around
it. We lose so much,

1619
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,580
we lose so much by being
so a self-absorbed,

1620
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:17,340
as you spoke of being so connected to
one's own ego instead of outside of

1621
01:35:17,340 --> 01:35:17,880
oneself.

1622
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:22,740
And then just being so driven
by this thing that keeps our

1623
01:35:22,740 --> 01:35:27,040
eyes downward. How did you
and Julie meet? I'm curious.

1624
01:35:28,690 --> 01:35:31,600
Julie and I met, uh,

1625
01:35:32,020 --> 01:35:33,800
you want the truth or you want the.

1626
01:35:34,060 --> 01:35:35,080
Uh, yeah, the truth.

1627
01:35:36,440 --> 01:35:39,980
We were drunk. No, I'm
kidding. Uh, no, not at all.

1628
01:35:39,980 --> 01:35:43,620
It's actually a very sweet way,
way that we, we met. I was, uh,

1629
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:46,770
she was a waitress and I was

1630
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:53,380
fucking broke. I had just come out to
la I don't think I was in LA a week.

1631
01:35:54,810 --> 01:35:55,643
And, uh,

1632
01:35:55,790 --> 01:36:00,030
I was with a friend and I
was wondering how on earth

1633
01:36:02,620 --> 01:36:05,260
I was gonna become a filmmaker. You know,

1634
01:36:05,300 --> 01:36:09,980
I was one of only 10 million people
<laugh> to save my idea, you know,

1635
01:36:09,980 --> 01:36:14,580
didn't know anybody. And I'm like,
how am I gonna crack this thing?

1636
01:36:14,600 --> 01:36:16,100
How am I gonna get in? You know,

1637
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:20,620
the funny thing is I felt
confident always that I would,

1638
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:25,980
but I just didn't, I just wasn't
sure how it was going to happen.

1639
01:36:26,640 --> 01:36:30,540
And I was talking to my
buddy and uh, I turned,

1640
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:36,220
and I just saw Julie come out
of the kitchen with those blue

1641
01:36:36,220 --> 01:36:40,900
eyes and that dark hair
carrying like eight

1642
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,580
plates of food, like
four in each arm. I said,

1643
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:48,500
that's gotta be the most amazing thing
I've ever seen. That beautiful woman.

1644
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:53,180
I'm Italian carrying all that food.
That's the girl I'm gonna marry.

1645
01:36:53,340 --> 01:36:56,810
I said it to my friend, I, the
second I saw her, I says, I'm gonna,

1646
01:36:56,810 --> 01:37:00,650
that's the girl I'm marrying. And
he goes, you're fucking dopey.

1647
01:37:00,990 --> 01:37:05,250
You've been out here 10 minutes. You
know, there's plenty of fish in the sea.

1648
01:37:05,270 --> 01:37:09,870
And I was like, no, that's the one.
I got a feeling about this. You know?

1649
01:37:10,130 --> 01:37:14,340
And so I, I asked her out and uh,

1650
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:19,300
you know, I remember I said, look, I
said, you're beautiful. And I said,

1651
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:23,320
I'm sure every guy in the world
is hitting on you. So I'm like,

1652
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:27,240
idiot number 523. I says, I don't
even want your number. I said,

1653
01:37:27,340 --> 01:37:32,000
here's my number. And I throw myself
at the mercy of the court, uh,

1654
01:37:32,020 --> 01:37:34,680
and if you wanna call me, you want
I'll, you'll have a great time.

1655
01:37:35,060 --> 01:37:39,320
And if you don't, you know, she called,
she and I asked her why. She goes,

1656
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:41,680
you made me laugh, <laugh>. So.

1657
01:37:42,580 --> 01:37:44,280
That's everything. And.

1658
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:45,360
We've been together ever since.

1659
01:37:47,410 --> 01:37:51,500
What I admire about the,
the, the way the, from,

1660
01:37:51,500 --> 01:37:55,260
just from what I've been on to glean ob
obviously through social media and our

1661
01:37:55,260 --> 01:37:58,460
conversations, is I think
it's tricky for artists,

1662
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:02,540
for people with artists' hearts to feel

1663
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:08,460
the ability to get so vulnerable that
they let someone else in completely.

1664
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:11,180
And you two seem to have each
other's backs so completely.

1665
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:12,980
And it's a really lovely thing to see.

1666
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:14,833
Yes, it took,

1667
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:19,260
it took a long time to
get there because we were

1668
01:38:20,490 --> 01:38:23,060
both, you know, like, uh,

1669
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:28,190
we were both incredibly feisty and very,

1670
01:38:28,690 --> 01:38:31,030
uh, uh,

1671
01:38:32,260 --> 01:38:36,990
very quick with our words towards
each other. Like, we were like,

1672
01:38:36,990 --> 01:38:40,110
obviously we were very attracted
to each other very quickly.

1673
01:38:41,330 --> 01:38:43,520
But Julie and I, if,

1674
01:38:43,620 --> 01:38:48,320
if we could say things to each
other that were quite like

1675
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:52,000
a nasty version of a Neil Simon
play, you know, I mean, oh geez,

1676
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:56,840
<laugh> we could, yeah, we could
just, and, and, and she doesn't break,

1677
01:38:57,060 --> 01:39:00,600
you know, she'll, she'll just keep
coming at you. And then I would too,

1678
01:39:01,380 --> 01:39:06,320
you know? Um, oh really? We were
like, we would fence that way,

1679
01:39:06,460 --> 01:39:09,920
you know, you know, and when
you're young, you'd just stupid in,

1680
01:39:10,260 --> 01:39:13,320
in a lot of ways and you don't
realize how good you have it.

1681
01:39:13,540 --> 01:39:18,240
And I don't need to shit. You know? And,

1682
01:39:18,620 --> 01:39:19,600
and then over time,

1683
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:23,880
I think we really grew to understand that

1684
01:39:25,370 --> 01:39:30,270
we really, really loved and
respected the other person a lot.

1685
01:39:31,410 --> 01:39:36,350
And that you can't fuck with,
you know, it's too precious.

1686
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:40,180
So it took a, it took
a while to get there.

1687
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:42,140
How many years have you been married?

1688
01:39:43,650 --> 01:39:48,520
We've been together 40
years. She was like 18.

1689
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:53,560
I was 25. I robbed the cradle, that's
for sure. <laugh> and I married up.

1690
01:39:53,860 --> 01:39:57,360
So we've been together 40 years. We
lived together for quite a while.

1691
01:39:57,780 --> 01:40:01,400
I'd say we lived together. She could
tell you to the minute, you know, I'm,

1692
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:04,800
I'm not as good at this stuff as
she is. She goes, oh no, it's,

1693
01:40:05,020 --> 01:40:06,480
she knows exactly everything.

1694
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:10,200
I would say we lived together about eight
or nine years before we got married.

1695
01:40:10,650 --> 01:40:15,600
Cause a couple of people who we knew
got married and then got divorced

1696
01:40:15,740 --> 01:40:19,800
and we were like, oh fuck, they were
so happy. What happened there? This,

1697
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:23,000
maybe this marriage thing isn't
such a good idea. But then we, we,

1698
01:40:23,340 --> 01:40:26,400
we got married and we've been
together the whole time. I.

1699
01:40:26,400 --> 01:40:28,840
Love it. I like hearing
people's love stories.

1700
01:40:29,350 --> 01:40:31,820
Yeah. Yeah. Ours is, uh,

1701
01:40:32,710 --> 01:40:36,370
we are very much alike in that
we're very much homebodies.

1702
01:40:37,470 --> 01:40:40,250
You know, she, uh, like if she was a,

1703
01:40:40,330 --> 01:40:45,170
a girl that wanted to run around and
look at this and see the world and

1704
01:40:45,170 --> 01:40:48,170
go to this party and
talk to this asshole, i,

1705
01:40:48,850 --> 01:40:53,340
i that it wouldn't it, I'm
not that guy. I'm like,

1706
01:40:53,380 --> 01:40:56,820
I don't give a fuck. I'm not going
there. Fuck that I'm not doing.

1707
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:00,540
And she doesn't want to either. Like
when we get invited to something,

1708
01:41:00,540 --> 01:41:03,820
we're like, oh shit. You know, <laugh>.

1709
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:08,180
So like Covid for us was
the fucking best, you know,

1710
01:41:08,180 --> 01:41:11,140
we didn't have to go anywhere, you
know, we went to the supermarket,

1711
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:16,340
we cooked, stayed home, and we
had a few friends over, you know.

1712
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:19,540
But generally that's what we will
make. You know, we don't like, uh.

1713
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:20,780
You're hunker downers.

1714
01:41:21,240 --> 01:41:23,780
We are, we don't like these
big McGills, you know, and.

1715
01:41:24,510 --> 01:41:28,160
Yeah. You know. Well, tell me what's
coming for you, uh, artistically? What's,

1716
01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:29,000
what's in the shoot?

1717
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:34,630
I have, uh, in, in the art
world, I'm gonna have a show.

1718
01:41:34,730 --> 01:41:36,830
Uh, I was invited to have a show. I mean,

1719
01:41:36,830 --> 01:41:41,750
I've been invited to back to the Butler
Institute to do a big show there cuz I,

1720
01:41:41,830 --> 01:41:43,550
I had about 72 paintings.

1721
01:41:43,990 --> 01:41:48,190
I had a big show there in
2015. They invited me back.

1722
01:41:48,410 --> 01:41:52,510
But it's such a pain in the
ass to frame and crate and ship

1723
01:41:53,290 --> 01:41:55,820
like a hundred paintings
and I paint big paintings.

1724
01:41:56,560 --> 01:42:00,460
So that's a big pain. So locally,

1725
01:42:01,250 --> 01:42:05,940
there's a great gentleman by the
name of Rand Gladden who runs photo

1726
01:42:06,220 --> 01:42:07,860
chem in Santa Monica.

1727
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:12,220
And it's a giant space and
it's where they process film.

1728
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:13,553
And they also,

1729
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:17,380
that's where a lot of actors go to do
voiceover work and stuff like that.

1730
01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:21,820
So there's a lot of big movie stars
walking in and out of that building.

1731
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:25,780
And Rand said, why don't you hang some
of your artwork cuz it's such a giant,

1732
01:42:26,330 --> 01:42:27,420
beautiful space.

1733
01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:31,980
So I'm gonna bring about a dozen big
paintings there and I'm gonna hang them

1734
01:42:31,980 --> 01:42:35,060
there and have, there's gonna be
a little reception and stuff. And,

1735
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:36,820
and where are you physically? I.

1736
01:42:36,820 --> 01:42:37,653
Live in Santa Monica.

1737
01:42:37,830 --> 01:42:41,260
Santa Monica. Good. Then you'll Yeah,
please. You're invited. Okay. I mean.

1738
01:42:41,260 --> 01:42:42,660
I am there. I can't wait.

1739
01:42:42,850 --> 01:42:47,700
Okay, great. So there's that. And then
I've got, uh, I've got two movies.

1740
01:42:47,980 --> 01:42:52,420
I I've got one gigantic movie
that's supposed to go next January.

1741
01:42:53,420 --> 01:42:56,860
I wrote the script with Nick
Langa. Nick wrote Green Book.

1742
01:42:57,050 --> 01:43:00,420
It's about Carlo Gambino, the,
the gangster. But it's, it's, uh,

1743
01:43:01,930 --> 01:43:04,820
it's told through the eyes
of Jimmy Breslin, who,

1744
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:09,660
who was a newspaper reporter in New
York who he won the Pulitzer Prize for,

1745
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:13,100
for writing stories about
New York City street life.

1746
01:43:13,640 --> 01:43:17,260
And he was a real street guy himself.
He was one of these really tough,

1747
01:43:17,330 --> 01:43:21,700
kind of Irish brawler guys, you
know, brilliant writer. And he,

1748
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:25,900
he wrote a piece about Carlo
Gambino when Carlo died,

1749
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:30,660
and he basically stayed awake for
three days going door to door to door,

1750
01:43:30,730 --> 01:43:34,420
piecing together this story
of who this gangster was.

1751
01:43:34,440 --> 01:43:38,620
And that's really the point of view of
the movie. It's Jimmy going door to door.

1752
01:43:38,720 --> 01:43:39,553
And then it,

1753
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:44,220
he gets told all these different
stories about the rise of this

1754
01:43:44,940 --> 01:43:49,620
gangster. So that's like a
big, like 80 million, uh,

1755
01:43:49,950 --> 01:43:52,420
movie that we're gonna
shoot in Italy, in New York.

1756
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:53,793
What's it called?

1757
01:43:54,330 --> 01:43:55,300
Gambino. Oh.

1758
01:43:55,370 --> 01:43:56,740
Okay. Is DeNiro in it?

1759
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:00,420
DeNiro will be in it, yes. Yeah, I
have to talk to him about it. But yeah,

1760
01:44:00,420 --> 01:44:04,500
I wrote a part for Morgan Freeman. We
don't know who Carlo Gambino is yet,

1761
01:44:04,500 --> 01:44:09,100
but Gian Carlo Gini is on
board. Salvatore Esposito,

1762
01:44:10,290 --> 01:44:14,910
uh, signed up. Uh, who else has
signed up? I, I'm hoping to hear, uh,

1763
01:44:14,910 --> 01:44:19,770
today about the CIO del Turro. So
it's gonna be a beautiful cast.

1764
01:44:19,770 --> 01:44:20,250
That's a.

1765
01:44:20,250 --> 01:44:21,083
Hell of a cast.

1766
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:22,490
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh,

1767
01:44:23,110 --> 01:44:26,650
I'm hoping my friend Brendan Frazier
will play Jimmy Breslin. I, he's,

1768
01:44:27,170 --> 01:44:31,810
I love Brendan. He's one of my dearest
friends and I, I wrote the part for him,

1769
01:44:31,950 --> 01:44:32,470
so.

1770
01:44:32,470 --> 01:44:37,090
Please give him my congratulations. It
could happen to a nicer, nicer human.

1771
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:38,473
Yeah.

1772
01:44:38,540 --> 01:44:40,930
We're from the same part of
the world Pacific Northwest.

1773
01:44:41,610 --> 01:44:44,610
I love the way Aronofsky ended
that film, cuz it could have,

1774
01:44:44,910 --> 01:44:46,650
he could have made a lot
of choices there. And,

1775
01:44:46,750 --> 01:44:50,050
and I thought it was a really
lovely way to end. But fuck man,

1776
01:44:50,770 --> 01:44:55,650
I gotta say the movies that are
adapted from plays might be some of

1777
01:44:55,650 --> 01:44:59,730
my most favorite because it's,
they're so insular. You never,

1778
01:44:59,870 --> 01:45:04,850
you never break out of this, this cocoon
that they've allowed us into. And it's,

1779
01:45:04,870 --> 01:45:09,570
it just keeps you there so
fully What a film. Yeah. Anyway,

1780
01:45:09,850 --> 01:45:10,690
kudos to, to him.

1781
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:13,650
Yeah, I will, I'll,
I'll, I'll tell him. Uh,

1782
01:45:14,450 --> 01:45:17,430
and then I'm doing to continue
babbling about myself.

1783
01:45:17,430 --> 01:45:21,510
Then there's this other thing that I
also wrote with Nick Langa, this big,

1784
01:45:22,540 --> 01:45:27,350
just ridiculous over the
top comedy that I believe is

1785
01:45:27,350 --> 01:45:29,990
happening, I'll know within a few days,

1786
01:45:30,250 --> 01:45:34,090
but it's called The Big House
and it's sort of like stir crazy.

1787
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:38,850
It's these two guys end up
in jail, totally innocent.

1788
01:45:38,870 --> 01:45:42,890
And one is a, is a Broadway choreographer,

1789
01:45:43,590 --> 01:45:47,530
and the other one is the a celebrity
chef that used to be on the Food Network.

1790
01:45:47,670 --> 01:45:51,970
And they both came on on very hard times
and they're best friends and they end

1791
01:45:51,970 --> 01:45:56,690
up in jail for something they didn't
do. And the warden, this is just a,

1792
01:45:56,690 --> 01:45:59,010
like I say, it's a big comedy.
He is like Nathan Lane,

1793
01:45:59,800 --> 01:46:04,690
he's just like very arts
artsy, fary, uh, uh,

1794
01:46:04,700 --> 01:46:07,330
let's say socially progressive
warden. And he's like,

1795
01:46:07,480 --> 01:46:08,610
I've never seen a guy like this.

1796
01:46:08,910 --> 01:46:13,330
He wants John Traval to teach
the men how to sing and dance,

1797
01:46:14,230 --> 01:46:15,450
you know, and he,

1798
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:19,970
they wanna put on this big Broadway type
show with all these prisoners. Yeah,

1799
01:46:19,970 --> 01:46:24,450
John. I wrote it for John and, and, uh,
I want to, yeah, I want him to do it.

1800
01:46:24,550 --> 01:46:27,970
And, uh, Martin Lawrence
to play the Celebrity Chef,

1801
01:46:28,910 --> 01:46:30,690
and he teaches the men how to cook.

1802
01:46:31,710 --> 01:46:35,450
And what ends up happening is that the
show gets so big that they're gonna,

1803
01:46:35,450 --> 01:46:39,090
they're literally gonna open it out of
the prison and they get permission from

1804
01:46:39,090 --> 01:46:42,250
the governor to do this
big Christmas show.

1805
01:46:42,950 --> 01:46:45,570
And some of the inmates
want to use it to escape.

1806
01:46:46,420 --> 01:46:48,720
And the other inmates are
just there for the show.

1807
01:46:48,820 --> 01:46:50,740
And during the course of the show,

1808
01:46:51,650 --> 01:46:53,980
they fall in love with
show business so much,

1809
01:46:54,330 --> 01:46:57,380
they start getting applause
for the first time. They,

1810
01:46:58,410 --> 01:47:01,820
they don't know whether or not they
wanna escape. They want to. It's,

1811
01:47:01,930 --> 01:47:06,580
it's really, it's like I said, it's called
the Big House. The script is a riot.

1812
01:47:06,980 --> 01:47:07,940
I I literally,

1813
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:12,900
and I I'm hoping that happens
first and then I can go do Gambino.

1814
01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:15,540
Oh, I love it. Those
are great projects. You,

1815
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:18,220
you work with a lot of the same
people over and over again.

1816
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:23,500
Yes. They are suckers for, for gluttons,
for Punishment. Uh, I love working,

1817
01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:24,780
you know, look,

1818
01:47:24,780 --> 01:47:28,060
when you work with somebody for a long
time and then it's like a marriage,

1819
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:31,700
you know, you, you, you grow to trust
them and they grow to trust you. And,

1820
01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:34,660
and it's just a good time. And
you know, if you're gonna be like,

1821
01:47:34,660 --> 01:47:38,940
you used to use the word vulnerable, you
know, when you're performing, you know,

1822
01:47:38,940 --> 01:47:43,420
you are vulnerable. If you're
not, like, like Cop said, they,

1823
01:47:43,420 --> 01:47:47,060
they ever ask him, they, they
asked him is he ever scared?

1824
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:52,420
And he says he's only scared when he
is doing it. Right. You know? Yeah. So,

1825
01:47:52,420 --> 01:47:57,280
and you wanna be able to try
stuff and be scared, you know,

1826
01:47:57,300 --> 01:47:58,133
and.

1827
01:47:58,420 --> 01:48:02,830
Yeah. It's a, life is a high wire act
over a pit of fire with alligators. Right.

1828
01:48:02,830 --> 01:48:03,570
Listen.

1829
01:48:03,570 --> 01:48:04,403
To you.

1830
01:48:04,690 --> 01:48:06,070
But that's what makes it beautiful.

1831
01:48:06,290 --> 01:48:09,470
And you mentioned Icarus and all the
while you're on the, the tie rope,

1832
01:48:09,470 --> 01:48:12,270
you're knitting your, you're
knitting together your wings,

1833
01:48:12,450 --> 01:48:13,590
you're hoping for the.

1834
01:48:13,590 --> 01:48:17,030
Best. Yes. Are you a
Facebook friend with Julie?

1835
01:48:17,550 --> 01:48:18,180
I am.

1836
01:48:18,180 --> 01:48:22,950
Okay, good. All right. So then you
guys talk. Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. Okay,

1837
01:48:23,590 --> 01:48:26,320
well we, we should all,
uh, we should get together.

1838
01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:29,960
I would love that. I What music do you
play? Tell me about that really quickly.

1839
01:48:30,060 --> 01:48:31,760
Cuz we'd never discussed that before.

1840
01:48:31,990 --> 01:48:33,840
What kind of music do I play? Uh,

1841
01:48:37,480 --> 01:48:38,920
I mean, you know, you're.

1842
01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:41,680
Already better than I am. Do you
ever play your songs in your.

1843
01:48:41,680 --> 01:48:46,520
Movies? I did once I, I
a joke song I wrote, I,

1844
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:51,040
I I, I was in Double Take in the Country
Bar. I've written a lot of songs.

1845
01:48:51,780 --> 01:48:56,240
Oh my gosh. Do you ever perform.

1846
01:48:57,180 --> 01:49:00,840
No, never have. I mean, I do to
the drunks here in the house.

1847
01:49:01,310 --> 01:49:03,520
Sure. When is your art show?

1848
01:49:04,280 --> 01:49:07,520
I don't know. I'm assuming
in a couple of months.

1849
01:49:08,230 --> 01:49:09,280
It's fun to have shows.

1850
01:49:09,820 --> 01:49:13,040
It, it is, yeah. And, and,
uh, as a general rule,

1851
01:49:13,160 --> 01:49:15,200
I get very nervous when I see them.

1852
01:49:15,640 --> 01:49:19,600
I feel both a sense of pride
and excitement and nervousness

1853
01:49:20,410 --> 01:49:24,080
about how, how they're gonna get
received, you know? But, uh, yeah.

1854
01:49:24,500 --> 01:49:27,000
But to your point before,
it's is everybody,

1855
01:49:27,230 --> 01:49:31,160
everybody gets to have
their own experience with a
thing. And that's that you,

1856
01:49:31,230 --> 01:49:32,320
once you've created the thing,

1857
01:49:34,180 --> 01:49:37,600
you have to let it go into the
universe and be what it's gonna be.

1858
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:39,840
I noticed the Jackson Pollock,

1859
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:44,560
cause I had appreciated Jackson
Pollock for who he was within the,

1860
01:49:44,980 --> 01:49:47,260
the realm of art and, and history of art.

1861
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:52,420
But it wasn't until I saw Jackson Pollock
up close and I saw the little bits of

1862
01:49:52,420 --> 01:49:55,540
things, the cigarettes and the,
and the bottle caps and this, that,

1863
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:59,900
and I remember standing in the museum
staring at all these little pieces and

1864
01:49:59,900 --> 01:50:01,390
thinking, uh,

1865
01:50:01,390 --> 01:50:06,230
like I could see him painting and
all the days that went by and what

1866
01:50:06,260 --> 01:50:11,150
each little thing must have meant, and
then what it meant to me. And again,

1867
01:50:11,210 --> 01:50:15,910
ac we're reaching across
decades and holding hands

1868
01:50:15,940 --> 01:50:18,190
with the artist. You know,
it's hard to explain.

1869
01:50:18,270 --> 01:50:22,390
I know what you mean. No, I know what
you mean. I, I I, I, I feel the same way.

1870
01:50:22,500 --> 01:50:26,030
It's like, you know, like Van Gogh is
dead, you know, but he's not with us.

1871
01:50:26,290 --> 01:50:28,950
But when you look at
those paintings, it's like

1872
01:50:31,260 --> 01:50:35,870
he's still breathing. It's like there,
his, his life is in those breaststrokes,

1873
01:50:35,890 --> 01:50:40,470
you know, I I I I get choked
up. I I just get choked up.

1874
01:50:41,500 --> 01:50:42,333
Yeah. That.

1875
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:44,190
We're a couple of softies. That's.

1876
01:50:44,350 --> 01:50:47,830
I know. Have you seen that, uh, Dr.
Who episode where they bring, uh,

1877
01:50:47,850 --> 01:50:49,070
van Gogh to his museum?

1878
01:50:49,530 --> 01:50:53,270
Yes, I did. And I was so beautiful
in the ending stand. I'm gonna get,

1879
01:50:53,300 --> 01:50:54,590
goddammit, you're gonna make me cry.

1880
01:50:54,590 --> 01:50:58,190
All those people are standing around
admiring his work. I saw with Julie,

1881
01:50:58,330 --> 01:50:59,830
we both got all choked up.

1882
01:51:00,020 --> 01:51:03,790
Seen it 30 times. Every time I
watch it, I cry. It's so beautiful.

1883
01:51:04,010 --> 01:51:07,150
And he can't believe that all those
people are looking at his work in that

1884
01:51:07,210 --> 01:51:11,280
museum. I, I, I know. Yeah.
It's so beautiful. All right.

1885
01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:12,560
Fuck you for making me cry.

1886
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:17,280
<Laugh> George, you're lovely.
Thank you for your time. Thank you.

1887
01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:18,360
Much. Thank you. Yeah.

1888
01:51:18,500 --> 01:51:22,760
Please keep me, keep me in, uh, in the
loop of all the things. And if you have.

1889
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:26,560
I I will. And don't be a stranger.
Please. Let, let, let's communicate more.

1890
01:51:26,670 --> 01:51:27,150
Okay?

1891
01:51:27,150 --> 01:51:29,800
Yeah. And if you ever wanna get together
and play, get songs at each other,

1892
01:51:29,860 --> 01:51:30,550
you let me know.

1893
01:51:30,550 --> 01:51:32,560
Alright, that sounds like a good time.

1894
01:51:32,910 --> 01:51:33,920
Have a lovely afternoon.

1895
01:51:34,220 --> 01:51:36,000
You too. God bless. All right, my friend.

1896
01:51:36,140 --> 01:51:37,880
Thanks for listening everybody. Bye.

1897
01:51:38,260 --> 01:51:39,093
Bye.

1898
01:51:40,130 --> 01:51:43,480
Reach review and subscribe to
Hey, human on iTunes, Spotify,

1899
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:47,040
wherever you get your
podcast. Thanks. Bye.