1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,940 Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan, Ruth here. Thanks. 2 00:00:10,940 --> 00:00:14,140 Listening to another episode of Hey Human Podcast. 3 00:00:15,930 --> 00:00:18,380 This is episode 361, 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,620 and I had a conversation with Calpurnia Adams. 5 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:26,340 Calpurnia is a veteran actress, award-winning showgirl, 6 00:00:26,790 --> 00:00:29,740 trans activist, producer, author, and musician. 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,740 She spent four years as a field medical combat specialist in the Navy, 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,140 and was one of the elite combat trained devil dogs 9 00:00:39,650 --> 00:00:41,860 serving in, uh, the Iraq Wars. 10 00:00:42,190 --> 00:00:46,020 She's a Peabody Award recipient for Soldier's Girl, 11 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:51,540 a film that details her relationship with murdered Army Soldier Barry Winchell. 12 00:00:52,070 --> 00:00:56,700 She's made numerous films and television appearances and 13 00:00:57,010 --> 00:00:58,700 runs deep stealth productions, 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,060 ink with business partner and not activist and previous. Hey, 15 00:01:03,060 --> 00:01:05,180 human guest episode tour do one, 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,060 Andrea James producing media with an awareness of quote, 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,980 the truth and value of trans women's contributions. 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,500 We had a great conversation. I really enjoy Calpurnia. 19 00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:20,980 She's funny and brilliant and, uh, lovely. 20 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,220 I'm excited for you to hear this episode. 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,780 You might hear a lot of sing-songy noises in the background or, 22 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,220 or chirpy noises and things. 23 00:01:29,690 --> 00:01:34,140 Calpurnia has a gaggle of birds as pets and 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,900 her, as she calls them, her family, and I've met them. They're very sweet birds. 25 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,140 So when you hear that, that's, 26 00:01:41,140 --> 00:01:44,020 that's that sound in case you're wondering if we are outside or, 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,580 or what's going on, check out, Hey human podcast.com for links. 28 00:01:48,580 --> 00:01:52,740 And to learn more about my guests in the show, check out Susan ruth.com. 29 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,420 To learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, 30 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,580 follow Susan Ruth ism and hey, human podcast on social media. 31 00:02:00,330 --> 00:02:03,900 Find my albums on Spotify, apple music, Amazon music, 32 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,500 or wherever you get your music. Look for my album. 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,740 All I ever Wanted was everything. Also, 34 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:13,580 check out my relationships and sex show with sexologist and healthcare 35 00:02:13,580 --> 00:02:17,580 practitioner, Mara Edelman. It's on YouTube under Are We There yet? 36 00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:21,180 Podcast show rate review and subscribe to, Hey, 37 00:02:21,180 --> 00:02:24,420 human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. 38 00:02:24,610 --> 00:02:26,940 It's all over the place. It's on all the podcast places, 39 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,660 and thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing the show. Get it out there, 40 00:02:31,660 --> 00:02:36,540 telling your friends and family and coworkers and such. Keep spreading the word. 41 00:02:36,970 --> 00:02:41,220 It's, I really appreciate it and it's super helpful. Thank you, 42 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:43,580 uh, for everything. Thank you for listening. 43 00:02:43,580 --> 00:02:47,980 Thank you for being a supporter of this show and everything I do here. 44 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:52,100 And, uh, yeah, be well, be love. 45 00:02:52,690 --> 00:02:55,980 Lift each other up and be there and support each other. 46 00:02:56,790 --> 00:03:00,260 We're all in this together, you know. All right, here we go. 47 00:03:01,820 --> 00:03:04,150 Calpurnia Adams, welcome to Hey, human. 48 00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:08,620 Thank you for having me. Wow, I appreciate it. 49 00:03:09,010 --> 00:03:11,540 Yeah, I'm really excited. Thank you for saying yes. 50 00:03:11,730 --> 00:03:13,980 It's always a delight when people say Yes, . 51 00:03:15,930 --> 00:03:19,860 That, that's been my motto. Uh, ever since I hit 50, 52 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,580 I'm just like, say yes. And in my acting career, 53 00:03:24,940 --> 00:03:27,860 I answer the phone, I'll take it. So . 54 00:03:30,060 --> 00:03:32,340 I, I feel the same way. I say yes to everything, 55 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:33,900 and if I don't know how to do something, 56 00:03:34,060 --> 00:03:38,700 I figure it out as I'm building my wings, you know? Exactly. Yeah. 57 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,420 How was it turning 50? Was that a shocker or were you ready for it? 58 00:03:43,670 --> 00:03:48,050 Um, I, you know, I, let's, uh, 59 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,130 kind of cut to the chase early. 60 00:03:50,510 --> 00:03:55,410 I'm trans and having transitioned somewhat young, 61 00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:59,930 the normal milestones that other people hit, you know, 62 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:03,970 I've already hit so many other weird milestones that turning 50, 63 00:04:04,170 --> 00:04:09,110 I was just like, okay, you know, here we are. Let's do this. It, 64 00:04:09,730 --> 00:04:11,990 it wasn't that big a deal for me. 65 00:04:12,710 --> 00:04:17,310 I feel like after 21, any birthday is just sort of what I, 66 00:04:17,430 --> 00:04:21,910 I know some people are really into birthdays, but it just seems, 67 00:04:22,090 --> 00:04:24,630 except for little kids, it's kinda like Christmas, like, yeah, 68 00:04:24,630 --> 00:04:26,230 I get it for little kids. It makes sense. 69 00:04:27,110 --> 00:04:29,430 . Yeah, and, and I came up, 70 00:04:29,790 --> 00:04:34,510 I didn't drink until I didn't do anything, until I was, 71 00:04:34,630 --> 00:04:37,030 I think 32 was my first drink of alcohol. 72 00:04:37,490 --> 00:04:42,350 So even my 21st birthday, I was like, eh, who cares? 73 00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:43,260 . 74 00:04:43,260 --> 00:04:44,093 Yeah. 75 00:04:44,900 --> 00:04:47,470 Yeah. A lot of people that's like, oh, I can finally drink, 76 00:04:47,610 --> 00:04:49,390 but I just didn't care. 77 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:53,190 Well, let's get into you. Where, where did you grow up? 78 00:04:53,340 --> 00:04:56,670 What was family life like, and, uh, 79 00:04:57,770 --> 00:04:58,790 how did it shape you? 80 00:05:00,580 --> 00:05:03,790 Well, I have to say, I, I start this out, 81 00:05:03,820 --> 00:05:08,790 like when I meet a new person at a social party or 82 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:09,623 something, 83 00:05:10,110 --> 00:05:14,790 I almost hesitate to answer questions about the normal 84 00:05:14,790 --> 00:05:19,590 getting to know you questions because it almost feels like I'm making it 85 00:05:19,650 --> 00:05:24,270 up or it's like, you know, too much. But, uh, 86 00:05:24,350 --> 00:05:29,350 I was born in 1971 in Nashville, Tennessee to a, 87 00:05:29,770 --> 00:05:33,590 to a poor working class family who were incredibly, 88 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,430 incredibly religious and an ultra conservative fundamentalist 89 00:05:38,430 --> 00:05:42,510 Christian cult. I, um, happened to be, 90 00:05:43,130 --> 00:05:47,070 you know, quite intelligent and artistic, 91 00:05:48,050 --> 00:05:53,030 and that was unusual in my family group 92 00:05:53,130 --> 00:05:54,590 and paradigm. Um, 93 00:05:55,150 --> 00:05:58,780 I ended up getting into a high school for the gifted, uh, 94 00:05:58,850 --> 00:06:01,620 strangely through a lot of weird circumstances, 95 00:06:02,410 --> 00:06:06,860 made a lot of interesting friends, but was discouraged from college, 96 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:08,540 joined the military, 97 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,860 served in the Gulf War in Saudi Arabia as a combat medic 98 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,260 in the Navy with the Marines. Got out transitioned, 99 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,740 uh, you know, having been assigned male at birth and transitioned to female, 100 00:06:25,230 --> 00:06:27,780 dated a military soldier who was murdered, 101 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,300 became focused of international activism and media, 102 00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:37,420 moved to Hollywood and worked as an actress and 103 00:06:37,780 --> 00:06:42,300 activist, and now, many decades later, here I am. 104 00:06:42,970 --> 00:06:46,860 That is like the ultimate cliff notes of your life, . 105 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:52,180 It's, it's really bizarre to boil it down to that. 106 00:06:52,860 --> 00:06:57,240 I mean, um, I, uh, it's, it's too much. 107 00:06:57,790 --> 00:07:01,680 It's too much for a listener at a party, like, you know, Hey, 108 00:07:01,690 --> 00:07:04,960 where are you from? ? So, I, 109 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,760 I just usually don't even go into it, but, you know, for, for, uh, 110 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,480 a a moment like this, you know, 111 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,280 maybe it might be interesting to talk about some of the steps along the way. 112 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,080 Absolutely. Well, let's start with, uh, 113 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:24,400 the childhood raised in a strict religious, as you said, 114 00:07:24,430 --> 00:07:28,000 cult-like Christian family. 115 00:07:29,340 --> 00:07:30,200 Uh, do you have siblings? 116 00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:35,810 I'm the oldest of three. I had a, um, 117 00:07:36,050 --> 00:07:39,850 a brother in the middle and a baby sister, and, um, 118 00:07:40,190 --> 00:07:42,850 to add to my, uh, 119 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,290 Shakespearean tragedy of a life, 120 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:50,570 my brother and sister have died and my sister's only child has 121 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,770 died, and my father has died. 122 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:57,690 So my entire family is dead except for me and my mother. Holy, and. 123 00:07:58,230 --> 00:07:59,063 I'm so sorry. 124 00:08:00,340 --> 00:08:01,310 It's, it, 125 00:08:01,580 --> 00:08:05,750 it's heartbreaking and I'm not making light of it, 126 00:08:06,090 --> 00:08:10,950 but I have had to just take a deep breath 127 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,030 throughout my life and, and look at the tragedy and, um, 128 00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:20,870 just raise my eyebrows and be like, you know, here we are. 129 00:08:21,870 --> 00:08:26,270 Whenever a guest speaks of somebody who's passed on from their family or friend 130 00:08:26,270 --> 00:08:26,670 group, 131 00:08:26,670 --> 00:08:31,190 I like to say the first names of those who have passed as a way to remember 132 00:08:31,190 --> 00:08:32,023 them. 133 00:08:32,420 --> 00:08:37,080 My dear sister Ginger Gwen, and Gwen is short for, 134 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:41,680 uh, Gwendolyn, which in its original language means wanderer. 135 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:44,880 And I always like to think that, you know, 136 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,000 perhaps even though she passed early, 137 00:08:48,220 --> 00:08:52,560 she has gotten to wander other realm and see the world. 138 00:08:53,540 --> 00:08:58,500 And my little brother, Jeremy Ray, was a brilliant, um, 139 00:08:58,610 --> 00:09:03,180 guitarist and musician and very funny. So, you know, I, 140 00:09:03,380 --> 00:09:08,340 I bless him and hope that if there is something else out 141 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:11,540 there, that he's found music and laughter in it. 142 00:09:12,370 --> 00:09:14,060 Nice. And your dad's name? 143 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:20,530 Uh, Dennis Ray. And, you know, poor deer. He grew up, 144 00:09:21,270 --> 00:09:25,170 he grew up impoverished in, in, uh, you know, 145 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,610 very early times and very rural Tennessee with so few 146 00:09:30,850 --> 00:09:35,450 resources. But he painted, uh, he loved the Beatles. 147 00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:41,010 Um, he was a good strong father, and I appreciate him. 148 00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:45,950 My sister's, uh, dear son, 149 00:09:46,690 --> 00:09:49,510 he was a sweet, simple soul. He, 150 00:09:50,050 --> 00:09:54,910 he didn't have a lot of guidance and help, you know, 151 00:09:55,220 --> 00:10:00,030 with us, with the losses our family suffered. 152 00:10:00,330 --> 00:10:04,950 But he was sweet and had big, beautiful eyes and, 153 00:10:05,050 --> 00:10:06,150 and was a good boy. 154 00:10:06,980 --> 00:10:09,070 Well, well, may they rest well, 155 00:10:10,420 --> 00:10:14,870 when you were young and coming up in a family that had such a strict religious 156 00:10:15,830 --> 00:10:20,110 backbone, were you immediately, I'm in, 157 00:10:20,110 --> 00:10:24,750 this sounds great, as kids often are, and then have an epiphany, or did you, 158 00:10:26,050 --> 00:10:26,270 uh, 159 00:10:26,270 --> 00:10:31,230 carry it with you through your life of God or what that all meant? 160 00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:38,020 I was a little stickler . I hate to, um, 161 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,740 you know, I, not to, uh, to my own horn or anything, 162 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,940 but I just was really smart from a real early age, 163 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,860 and I questioned it all immediately. I was like, well, 164 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,900 if this, then why that? And if this is okay, 165 00:10:57,010 --> 00:10:59,540 then why is that? Okay. And I, 166 00:10:59,780 --> 00:11:03,740 I was born into a very strict fundamentalist Christian 167 00:11:05,060 --> 00:11:09,660 religion and we weren't allowed to listen to modern music. Uh, 168 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,540 so, you know, me being, growing up in the eighties, I had no, 169 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,780 no Tiffany or the Cure or, um, you know, 170 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,460 in any of the eighties music that any anybody else came up to. 171 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,940 Boy George and George, Michael and I, I didn't get any of that. 172 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,700 And even worse, 173 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,740 we weren't allowed to consume current media, 174 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,980 so I never got to see any Disney cartoons, you know, 175 00:11:38,980 --> 00:11:42,420 Cinderella or Snow White or any of that. 176 00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:46,860 I never got to see the Goonies or Star Wars or et. 177 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,660 And yet all of my peers around me were consuming 178 00:11:53,210 --> 00:11:57,900 that media. And they had the lunch boxes and the backpacks and the, 179 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,940 the themed birthday parties and all that. 180 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,500 And the only way I could interact was I would sneak down 181 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:12,410 to the local gas station and I would read the Mad 182 00:12:12,730 --> 00:12:17,650 magazine parodies of these movies and TV shows on the 183 00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:21,810 shelf, cuz I couldn't afford it. It cost 25 cents to buy the magazine. 184 00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:26,690 But I would read the parodies of Star Wars and ET and, 185 00:12:27,710 --> 00:12:30,770 you know, the current TV shows, nightlight or whatever. 186 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:35,970 And that's the only way I could try to keep up with my peers. 187 00:12:38,050 --> 00:12:43,010 Did you have an inkling from a young age that you are 188 00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:43,510 trans? 189 00:12:43,510 --> 00:12:48,450 Or was it one of those things where you were going along just to get along, 190 00:12:48,450 --> 00:12:52,850 obviously in a religious fundamental household is very hard to even find an 191 00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:55,290 identity, period. ? 192 00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:02,470 Well, uh, I have this funny story from the very earliest age. 193 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,030 There used to be a television show starring, um, 194 00:13:06,490 --> 00:13:10,630 the actress Sally Field called The Flying Nun. 195 00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:15,750 And it was a ridiculous TV show about a nun who had 196 00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:19,990 the power to clumsily fly, 197 00:13:20,690 --> 00:13:25,030 uh, using her big headdress somehow. And, 198 00:13:25,170 --> 00:13:30,150 and somehow her ability to fly would like solve the problem of the week, 199 00:13:30,430 --> 00:13:34,710 whatever it was. And it, it, it was a really dumb low budget comedy, 200 00:13:35,610 --> 00:13:39,670 but it being religious themed, I was allowed to watch it. 201 00:13:40,010 --> 00:13:42,110 And as a toddler, 202 00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:47,750 I remember I ran through the church holding a piece of paper over 203 00:13:47,810 --> 00:13:51,510 my head to simulate her nun's headdress. 204 00:13:52,010 --> 00:13:55,550 And I was screaming, I'm the flying Nun. I'm Sister Betrayal. 205 00:13:55,690 --> 00:13:58,720 I'm Sister Betrayal, the flying nun. And I, 206 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,040 I don't know what my parents were more angry about that I was saying I was a 207 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,200 girl, or that I was saying I was Catholic. . 208 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,400 , that's hilarious, . 209 00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:16,160 But from a very early age, I, I was, I was feminine, 210 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,800 whatever that means. I was feminine. 211 00:14:18,980 --> 00:14:23,940 And my mother was always flapping my hands cuz when I talk, you know, 212 00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:26,860 my hands would be up and gesticulating or whatever. 213 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,940 And she would clap them and say, you know, put your hands down when we talk. 214 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,920 And I, I always had a, a high voice. And the, 215 00:14:37,020 --> 00:14:39,960 the interesting thing is, growing up in that church, I, 216 00:14:40,140 --> 00:14:44,720 the women did not wear makeup or dyed their hair or loose 217 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:47,440 hairspray or any of that. 218 00:14:47,470 --> 00:14:50,600 They did not wear jewelry cause uh, 219 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:55,460 they'll shall not adore nine self fit gold or, or pearls or et cetera. 220 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,500 So my idea of womanhood was never about 221 00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:06,430 a rema like, you know, jewelry and makeup and hairstyles and stuff. 222 00:15:06,610 --> 00:15:11,370 But my idea of being a woman was still very 223 00:15:11,630 --> 00:15:12,463 firmly 224 00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:17,130 seated in what I thought in the women around me. 225 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,650 Were you able to express yourself in that way outside of 226 00:15:22,650 --> 00:15:26,010 the family? Did you, uh, you in some, 227 00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:29,330 in some way get to feel like yourself? 228 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,900 Well, I, I was very , 229 00:15:36,650 --> 00:15:40,020 very heavily bullied, uh, throughout my entire childhood. I, 230 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,540 it was the seventies and eighties in Nashville, Tennessee. 231 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:45,580 So I, 232 00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:50,780 I quickly learned to just turn inward and tried to 233 00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:52,680 disappear, 234 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,390 tried to be invisible whi which was very against my nature 235 00:15:57,420 --> 00:16:02,030 because I actually loved to perform and tell jokes and be funny 236 00:16:02,450 --> 00:16:06,310 and, and all that. Fortunately as a child, 237 00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:10,260 I was given a fiddle and I, 238 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:14,380 I remember we had a very large backyard, uh, 239 00:16:14,450 --> 00:16:17,220 full of trees and lightning bugs and, 240 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,380 and June bugs and cicadas and crickets. And, 241 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:26,300 and for a whole summer I would walk that giant 242 00:16:27,180 --> 00:16:32,060 backyard almost in a trance, playing that cheap fiddle that I was given, 243 00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:38,060 learning the notes for learning to find the notes to all the songs I 244 00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:41,260 knew, which, most of which were bluegrass gospel songs. And 245 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:47,020 our family would play bluegrass gospel in church. 246 00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:51,850 Daddy would play the banjo, mama taught herself the piano. 247 00:16:52,110 --> 00:16:56,810 She just had to take over cause our pianist died and 248 00:16:56,950 --> 00:17:00,650 Jeremy played the guitar, and Ginger played the taming. 249 00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:06,300 And so we did have the music in church. And, 250 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,020 and that was, that was my only creative expression. 251 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,620 And I still look back now as hard as that church was, 252 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,100 the music still touches me. 253 00:17:17,690 --> 00:17:19,060 Were you close with your parents? 254 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,900 Did you have a bond or was there always a bit of a distance because 255 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,500 you were exhibiting differentness? 256 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:29,433 Well, that's, 257 00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:34,450 that's the thing is that I've heard a lot of stories where the parents 258 00:17:34,550 --> 00:17:39,170 are just complete villains. Mine really loved me. 259 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,210 They really did. They were good people, 260 00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:46,330 but they were ignorant people. They, you know, 261 00:17:46,510 --> 00:17:49,700 of course they had been born in the forties and fifties. 262 00:17:49,970 --> 00:17:54,500 They grew up in Tennessee. How would they ever know anything about, 263 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,100 you know, trans or queer or gay things? They just didn't. 264 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,020 And they were product of their time. 265 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,220 So they had a really long 266 00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:11,660 experience to grow and love and understand. 267 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,700 But because their baseline was that they loved me and their 268 00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:21,210 baseline was that they were good people. All these years later, 269 00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:26,680 before my father died, he accepted me, uh, 270 00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:32,080 as a woman and my mother, who's still alive, we're good friends now. 271 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:34,360 We text every day. She loves me. It, 272 00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:38,990 it was a long journey and as a child it was very 273 00:18:38,990 --> 00:18:42,870 difficult because they were young and ignorant and products of their time. 274 00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:44,790 But now it's good. 275 00:18:45,650 --> 00:18:50,510 Oh, that's good to hear. What made you decide to join the military? 276 00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:51,403 You were in the Navy? 277 00:18:52,910 --> 00:18:57,880 Well, growing up I was, I was always, and I don't wanna take my horn, 278 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,440 I'll say again, but I was always real, real smart. I just, 279 00:19:01,490 --> 00:19:04,520 everything was easy for me academically. 280 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:10,560 I would read a book a day or every day or two, you know, I just, 281 00:19:11,490 --> 00:19:16,490 I remember as a young child, a friend of my mother's was a high school teacher, 282 00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:22,410 and I asked her if I could have some of her books that she used in 283 00:19:22,410 --> 00:19:25,370 class. She taught biology and science. And, 284 00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:31,010 and I took those home as a young child and just tore through those high 285 00:19:31,010 --> 00:19:35,560 school biology books. And, but, um, 286 00:19:36,930 --> 00:19:41,030 you know, I I was not encouraged in any of that, unfortunately. 287 00:19:41,490 --> 00:19:42,790 And being poor. 288 00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:47,390 We were not well served by the educational system at the time. 289 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,980 But a good friend of mine, uh, 290 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,020 got into a magnet school called Hume Fog in 291 00:19:56,020 --> 00:20:00,940 Nashville. And it's a gorgeous school. It looks like a castle. It's, uh, 292 00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:04,580 it's hundreds of years old. It's built of stone, looks like a castle, 293 00:20:04,670 --> 00:20:05,620 right on Broadway, 294 00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:10,740 right up the street from Tootsie's Orchid Lounge and Second Avenue where all the 295 00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:14,690 honky towns are. And when he got in, 296 00:20:15,410 --> 00:20:20,250 I took his acceptance letter down to the library. I, 297 00:20:20,550 --> 00:20:21,270 uh, 298 00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:26,010 ran it on the copying machine with his name covered out and wrote 299 00:20:26,110 --> 00:20:29,170 my name in and turned it into the school. 300 00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:33,050 And they just let me in . Cause this was pre-computer, 301 00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:38,330 and they were like, if you have the form, you can get in. And, you know, 302 00:20:38,340 --> 00:20:39,170 thank goodness, 303 00:20:39,170 --> 00:20:43,770 getting into that magnet school exposed me to a whole new level 304 00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:48,150 of education. And unfortunately though, 305 00:20:48,370 --> 00:20:52,590 my parents said, if you go to college, it'll lead you away from God. 306 00:20:53,010 --> 00:20:57,710 So even though I scored in the top 1% of the nation on the 307 00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:00,910 SATs, I did not apply to college. 308 00:21:01,330 --> 00:21:05,310 But all the military came knocking because of my test scores 309 00:21:06,250 --> 00:21:07,670 and I joined the Navy. 310 00:21:10,030 --> 00:21:13,490 Wow. That's a, a brutal thing to say to someone. 311 00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:18,330 You can't go to college because it will lead you away from God. It's, 312 00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:23,130 it seems to me like such a disconnect that the thing that frustrates me the most 313 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:25,090 about religion is that folks say, 314 00:21:25,550 --> 00:21:29,930 here's this omnipotent being and the very nature of that word. 315 00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:32,143 And yet they, 316 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,130 they take away from its ability and its omnipotence by saying, 317 00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:41,690 oh, if you do this other thing somehow, uh, you're, 318 00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:45,690 you're separate from God. It's, well, how can God create me, 319 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,810 make me bright and provide all these opportunities. But at the same time, 320 00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:55,330 if I take those opportunities, I'm somehow away from God. 321 00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:59,290 It makes it such a confusing concept to me. 322 00:22:00,730 --> 00:22:05,300 Well, I mean, if you look at it academically, uh, you know, 323 00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:10,230 Thomas Klein, Peter and Paul, uh, there, there is, 324 00:22:10,770 --> 00:22:13,430 uh, there's an infinity of theological 325 00:22:15,180 --> 00:22:18,270 scholarly, uh, work being done. 326 00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:21,910 College obviously would not be you away from God, 327 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:24,310 even though for me, uh, 328 00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:28,950 I did end up going to college and it did lead me away from God even further. Uh, 329 00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:33,550 cause I personally am now an atheist and et cetera. But, 330 00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:35,390 uh, I, 331 00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:39,910 it was just a very unfortunate view of my very, unfortunately, 332 00:22:40,660 --> 00:22:45,040 poor and uneducated parents at the time. I, 333 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:50,160 I often look back and think, you know, what, if I had gone to Columbia or, 334 00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:55,920 or I looked at Bard and Carleton and Oxford, and, you know, 335 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,480 I, my life might be so different if I had gone to those. But, 336 00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:05,160 uh, at the time, the military was my only option. 337 00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:09,920 And because I had scored so highly, I had my pick of jobs. 338 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:12,640 And I chose the hospital core, 339 00:23:12,810 --> 00:23:16,280 which was the military medical core, 340 00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:20,820 which I did love because it suited my, 341 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,780 my gentle nature, my empathy. 342 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,990 And yet there was a lot of academic work to it. 343 00:23:29,050 --> 00:23:33,870 And I did become an educator in the hospital core. I was chosen to, 344 00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:39,230 uh, you know, lead remedial classes for students who can keep up, et cetera. 345 00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:42,750 I was immediately advanced, uh, 346 00:23:43,330 --> 00:23:46,180 two ranks cause of my academia. It, 347 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,740 it was a very good job for me. But right when it started, 348 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,460 the Gulf War was starting. 349 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,700 So I was immediately sent overseas to serve in the desert 350 00:23:58,890 --> 00:24:02,100 with the Marines who are a branch of the Navy, 351 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,020 though they hate to admit that. 352 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,100 In that capacity, what kinds of experiences did you have? 353 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,620 Um, it, it was, it was actually a great experience. You know, 354 00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:21,700 a lot of people might want me to denigrate the military, uh, to say, 355 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,780 you know, it's for dumb people or poor people, or whatever. It's, 356 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,940 it really taught me a lot. I, 357 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,980 who had been so sheltered and, uh, 358 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,500 hidden away from the world. 359 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,380 It threw me headlong into, you know, 360 00:24:41,540 --> 00:24:44,100 a group of people who, um, 361 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,660 who taught me a lot of social skills. 362 00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:50,820 I had not been able to develop until then. 363 00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:56,040 And, um, in the medical field, it, 364 00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:59,680 it is deeply intellectually stimulating. I, 365 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,800 I got to learn anatomy, physiology, 366 00:25:03,210 --> 00:25:05,880 first aid in the military. 367 00:25:06,270 --> 00:25:10,120 It's really interesting because at even at that lower level, 368 00:25:10,420 --> 00:25:14,520 you get to do things like, I got to suture wounds. 369 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,720 I got to perform minor surgeries. 370 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,360 I got to prescribe and administer medications. 371 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,200 A lot of things that even registered nurses don't get to do. 372 00:25:26,140 --> 00:25:30,720 And then in my further training as a field medical combat specialist with the 373 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,553 Marines, 374 00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:36,660 I did the whole thing where you crawl under barbed wire in the mud with smoke 375 00:25:36,750 --> 00:25:41,620 bombs going off and, you know, inhale, um, uh, 376 00:25:42,570 --> 00:25:46,610 whatever that gas is that burns your eyes. And I, 377 00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:51,530 it was a trial by fire that kind of, I'm grateful for. 378 00:25:51,530 --> 00:25:55,970 It brought me out of a shell that could have led me into sort of 379 00:25:56,620 --> 00:25:59,450 being a shut in, you know, 380 00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:04,110 sort of weird person. It broke me out of that shell. 381 00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:07,230 What was that experience like to have, 382 00:26:07,970 --> 00:26:12,710 to be able to think so quickly in the moment to be able to save lives on the 383 00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:17,230 battlefield, especially when we're talking about the Marine Corps, you know, 384 00:26:17,230 --> 00:26:22,070 as a naval medic to help folks that are in the shit of it. 385 00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:25,440 How was that experience just mentally? 386 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,200 I imagine it would be quite taxing emotionally. 387 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,840 One of, one of the through lines, 388 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,240 I think of who I am as a person is, 389 00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:40,440 is a deep sense of empathy. 390 00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:44,660 Even as a small child, I was always, and, 391 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,780 and I'm not building myself up here as some kind of a saint. 392 00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:51,540 I have a million flaws and I've made a million mistakes. 393 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,700 But I always deeply feel what another, 394 00:26:56,970 --> 00:26:59,100 what I think another person is feeling. 395 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,510 And being a medic really fed me in 396 00:27:04,510 --> 00:27:06,070 that way. And, 397 00:27:06,930 --> 00:27:10,310 and it was exciting to know what to do 398 00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:16,870 when I came upon a person who was grievously injured or, you know, 399 00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:20,550 horrifically damaged or whatever. 400 00:27:21,170 --> 00:27:23,750 Having the knowledge of how to help them 401 00:27:25,780 --> 00:27:30,430 was thrilling. And, um, and even today, 402 00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:35,670 you know, now I'm, I'm a dumpy plain old woman with gray hair, 403 00:27:35,850 --> 00:27:39,470 you know, overweight, walking down the street with no makeup or whatever. 404 00:27:39,770 --> 00:27:44,710 But if, if I see someone hurt or injured, my immediate thought is, 405 00:27:44,810 --> 00:27:49,640 you know, put them on their back, elevate their legs, uh, check, um, 406 00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:54,560 you know, check the ABCs, do whatever. And I, 407 00:27:55,220 --> 00:27:57,560 it was really good for me. I think it, 408 00:27:57,620 --> 00:28:02,240 it gave me a superpower in a way that I needed to 409 00:28:02,350 --> 00:28:07,160 have. And, and I still treasure that knowledge today. 410 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,200 I had read that in your last year of service, 411 00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:16,600 that you really were like, it's time. I'm ready to be who I am. 412 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:21,800 How did that, it was a don't ask don't tell time yet. 413 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,480 I went through the war. And then because my high academic scores, 414 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,960 I was, uh, 415 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,960 given the option to choose where my next duty station would be. 416 00:28:34,460 --> 00:28:39,360 And a lot of people were stunned that I chose Adac Island in 417 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,240 Alaska, which is a 24 by 32 incredibly remote 418 00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:46,360 island in the Aleutian chain, 419 00:28:46,380 --> 00:28:51,320 3,200 miles away from the shore of mainland Alaska 420 00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:56,400 and closer to Russia. It, it was a bleak, um, 421 00:28:56,890 --> 00:28:59,320 harsh, uh, 422 00:28:59,670 --> 00:29:02,040 elemental landscape to me. 423 00:29:02,340 --> 00:29:06,960 It looked like what the world must have looked like in its 424 00:29:07,150 --> 00:29:11,800 formation in their, you know, the beginnings of the planet Earth. 425 00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:17,640 But I was fascinated by that and the cleanliness 426 00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:22,720 of the pure air and the clean water and the challenge of being there. 427 00:29:24,490 --> 00:29:26,830 And so I, after the war, 428 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,670 which was quite an experience for me on so many levels, 429 00:29:31,470 --> 00:29:32,990 I went to this clean 430 00:29:34,490 --> 00:29:38,940 harshly scrubbed by the arctic winds 431 00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:44,210 place to sort of figure out who I was as a person. 432 00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:47,290 You know, I was, I joined at 17, 433 00:29:47,770 --> 00:29:52,030 I was 18, 19, 20 when I got there. 434 00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:55,390 And I was just trying to figure out what did this all mean and who was I? 435 00:29:55,450 --> 00:29:59,750 And I met some wilderness lesbians from, uh, 436 00:29:59,990 --> 00:30:04,190 a lot of navy lesbians who were airplane mechanics who 437 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,830 fixed the airplanes that landed there and went on to the next place. 438 00:30:09,570 --> 00:30:11,670 And I met two, um, 439 00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:17,190 I met a lesbian and I'm met a trans man who were cryptographers. 440 00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:22,750 They worked, doing all the secret messages and, and, 441 00:30:22,810 --> 00:30:27,230 you know, secret communique that came to the island 442 00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:31,670 and were decrypted from Russia and, and places like that. 443 00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:36,070 And at the time in the military, you could be imprisoned, 444 00:30:37,490 --> 00:30:41,850 punished, uh, have everything taken away from you, a dishonorable discharge, 445 00:30:42,260 --> 00:30:44,970 which is a lifelong mark against you, 446 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,850 akin to a felony that prevents you from getting work. 447 00:30:48,390 --> 00:30:53,130 You could lose everything if you were discovered as being what they considered 448 00:30:53,230 --> 00:30:54,063 gay. 449 00:30:54,860 --> 00:30:59,120 But I met this small group and they started teasing out 450 00:30:59,990 --> 00:31:01,360 what they saw in me, 451 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,240 which was something other than being cis and hetero, 452 00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:09,680 just by default, I, I wasn't, you know, 453 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,560 standing up and saying I'm a straight male or anything. 454 00:31:14,980 --> 00:31:19,650 It was just by default, um, people, 455 00:31:20,150 --> 00:31:24,890 you know, would look at me and, and be what they assumed was male. 456 00:31:25,470 --> 00:31:29,490 And the default sexuality was heterosexuality. 457 00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:34,500 So they would assume that. And I, 458 00:31:34,890 --> 00:31:37,300 because of how sheltered I was, 459 00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:41,260 I really wasn't aware that there were many other options. 460 00:31:43,070 --> 00:31:46,510 I had gone to the public library, uh, 461 00:31:46,570 --> 00:31:49,550 at which time you used the thing called a card catalog, 462 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,390 which is a very large piece of furniture that you pull out 463 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,273 small drawers, 464 00:31:56,330 --> 00:32:00,950 and it has every book in the library listed by, 465 00:32:01,370 --> 00:32:04,830 uh, you know, subject and dewey decimal system code, et cetera. 466 00:32:05,610 --> 00:32:10,030 And I had looked up things about trans 467 00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:11,083 people, 468 00:32:11,690 --> 00:32:16,630 but all the literature at that time presented it as a mental illness, 469 00:32:17,090 --> 00:32:20,750 as a tragedy, as a murder victim, et cetera. 470 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,820 So at the time, 471 00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:28,780 I really did not understand that there were any other options 472 00:32:30,390 --> 00:32:32,780 until we were all waiting. 473 00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:37,380 President Clinton was running for office and he said, if I get elected, 474 00:32:37,780 --> 00:32:42,060 I will eliminate the ban on gays in the military. 475 00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:46,220 Which at the time I would've been considered gay, 476 00:32:46,970 --> 00:32:48,620 just cuz there weren't even, 477 00:32:48,620 --> 00:32:51,300 there wasn't even language around things like trans or whatever. 478 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,460 And so me and all these wilderness lesbian airplane mechanics 479 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,220 and my trans cryptographer friend, we were waiting, 480 00:33:00,930 --> 00:33:05,170 fingers crossed. And then Bill got elected and he, 481 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,370 instead of eliminating the ban on gates and the military, 482 00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:14,410 he instituted the much less good policy of don't 483 00:33:14,430 --> 00:33:18,570 ask, don't tell, which meant that we won't ask you, 484 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:21,810 you don't tell, but if we find out you're gay, 485 00:33:22,390 --> 00:33:24,130 you will still go to military prison. 486 00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:29,800 And so I got out of the military, went back home to Nashville, 487 00:33:30,390 --> 00:33:33,840 immediately went to a gay club, saw my first trans woman, 488 00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:36,720 and knew that's what I wanted to do. 489 00:33:39,050 --> 00:33:42,750 And how long before you were able to have those kinds of con conversations with 490 00:33:42,750 --> 00:33:45,630 your family, with your parents, did you have them right away? 491 00:33:45,650 --> 00:33:48,790 Or did you just say, I'll see you in a decade, , you. 492 00:33:48,790 --> 00:33:50,950 Know, well, 493 00:33:51,630 --> 00:33:55,790 I got out of the military in 93, late 93, 494 00:33:55,790 --> 00:34:00,570 early 94. And you know, at you're, 495 00:34:00,710 --> 00:34:05,210 you're kind of, you know, cast out. Um, 496 00:34:05,310 --> 00:34:08,090 you have nothing set up or anything at that point. 497 00:34:08,110 --> 00:34:12,640 So I went back home to my parents, assuming, you know, 498 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,560 I'll find my footing and do whatever. 499 00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:20,400 But I was a bit militarized at that point because I had 500 00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:25,660 had those two years with, with my lesbian friends. 501 00:34:26,260 --> 00:34:31,060 I had been, I had ordered online, this is pre-Amazon, 502 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,740 you know, this book called The Big Day Book, which was this thick, 503 00:34:37,350 --> 00:34:41,580 thick book about four, four and a half, five inches thick, 504 00:34:42,010 --> 00:34:43,820 full of just, uh, 505 00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:47,740 it was almost in an encyclopedia of L G B T resources. 506 00:34:48,850 --> 00:34:49,683 And 507 00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:55,710 so I came home a a bit militarized and came out 508 00:34:55,770 --> 00:35:00,510 to my parents and they, um, to, to their, 509 00:35:01,290 --> 00:35:05,910 uh, you know, to their sadness, uh, they said, 510 00:35:06,010 --> 00:35:06,870 you have to get out. 511 00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:12,770 So I ended up living in my truck in Centennial Park 512 00:35:13,070 --> 00:35:15,850 for several months. And, 513 00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:19,850 and I got a job though at the local gay bar, the connection, 514 00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:21,250 which was an enormous, 515 00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:25,970 it was the largest gate owned and operated bar in the United States at the time. 516 00:35:26,030 --> 00:35:28,410 It was, uh, 40,000 square feet. 517 00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:31,530 2000 people would come on a Saturday night. 518 00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:36,690 And I got a job running the spotlight there for the drag shows. 519 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,340 But, uh, many of the drag queens on cast were trans women. 520 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,580 And I was just captivated. I was like, oh my God, 521 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,980 how did they do this? How did they affect this transformation? 522 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,460 How can they be so beautiful and do what I love to do, 523 00:35:59,460 --> 00:36:01,980 which is be on stage? You know, I was a fiddle player. 524 00:36:02,380 --> 00:36:06,500 I had set up a theater company in Alaska, um, 525 00:36:07,390 --> 00:36:11,960 where I put on many shows on the island of adap. And, 526 00:36:12,380 --> 00:36:14,200 uh, as part of running the spotlight, 527 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,240 I started studying under the girls and then doing Wednesday night, 528 00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:21,200 no pay talent night, 529 00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:25,360 and then filling in on a Friday if a girl was sick. 530 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,600 And eventually I got on cath and ended up working there for 12 years. 531 00:36:32,260 --> 00:36:34,840 And along the way, you fell in love. 532 00:36:36,980 --> 00:36:41,170 I did. And, um, you know, I, 533 00:36:41,490 --> 00:36:42,610 I really encountered, 534 00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:47,570 especially 10 or more years ago after I moved to Hollywood, 535 00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:53,370 I encountered a lot of trans women who looked at me 536 00:36:54,610 --> 00:36:59,470 for having transitioned in the gay nightclub scene 537 00:36:59,530 --> 00:37:03,590 for having transitioned performing, you know, 538 00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:08,550 in the drag culture. They really looked down on me for that. They, 539 00:37:08,890 --> 00:37:13,790 um, it was all but said that, 540 00:37:13,790 --> 00:37:14,950 you know, well, you are, 541 00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:19,830 you're just a gay man because you were a quote unquote drag 542 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,070 queen. Um, 543 00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:26,750 it was used that term was used denigrating against me 544 00:37:27,050 --> 00:37:31,350 in, uh, published articles in the L G B T press, 545 00:37:31,610 --> 00:37:33,590 et cetera. It, 546 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:38,790 they really discounted my womanhood because I came up 547 00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:43,550 through the club scene because I came up performing in the drag world, 548 00:37:45,220 --> 00:37:50,080 but all of them were usually a half generation to a generation 549 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:50,900 younger than me. 550 00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:55,630 And they just didn't understand that there were no resources, 551 00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,670 there was no internet, there was, there was no glad, there was no, 552 00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:05,480 you know, there, there was nothing for us. 553 00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:10,990 So the only time I had ever seen a trans woman was 554 00:38:11,250 --> 00:38:13,150 on stage at a gay bar. 555 00:38:13,770 --> 00:38:18,490 And it just so happened that I am an entertainer. 556 00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:19,383 I'm an artist. 557 00:38:19,870 --> 00:38:24,170 That's the deepest part of my self-identification is as an artist. 558 00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:29,430 And that was the only allowed space 559 00:38:29,890 --> 00:38:32,480 for me to both, you know, 560 00:38:32,490 --> 00:38:36,940 transition my gender and be an artist, get paid for it. 561 00:38:37,890 --> 00:38:42,480 I mean, if I had tried to go work at the mall, you know, 562 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,440 transitioning, I would've been kicked out. 563 00:38:45,580 --> 00:38:49,320 If I had been tried to go work at AutoZone or whatever transition, 564 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,360 I would've even kicked out. 565 00:38:51,150 --> 00:38:55,440 This was a job I could pay my rent to, 566 00:38:56,300 --> 00:39:01,000 you know, perfect my gender presentation and be an artist. And 567 00:39:03,110 --> 00:39:07,530 so I came up through all that. And one night, 568 00:39:08,110 --> 00:39:11,090 uh, Fort Campbell Kentucky is right at the, 569 00:39:12,580 --> 00:39:16,640 the bottom of Kentucky at the top of Tennessee, and it's an army base. 570 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,060 And an army boy named Barry Winchell, uh, 571 00:39:21,170 --> 00:39:25,500 came to see the show one Sunday night. And we would often get, 572 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:26,770 uh, 573 00:39:26,770 --> 00:39:31,660 army boys from Fort Campbell come down to the club because a lot of 574 00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:35,460 straight girls came even back then in the nineties, you know, 575 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,860 and the straight guys figured, you know, 576 00:39:38,860 --> 00:39:43,420 the straight girls at a gay bar, they're, I, my odds are, 577 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,060 you know, the odds are in my favor. 578 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,770 And so it wasn't unusual to see a table full of straight boys, 579 00:39:50,830 --> 00:39:54,940 but I was hosting at the time. I was, 580 00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:58,940 I was young and and gorgeous. I had, you know, 581 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,140 my natural long auburn hair to the middle of my back. 582 00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:07,260 I had a 26 inch waist and, and natural 583 00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:13,900 rests and, you know, all that I not to get too, but I, 584 00:40:14,980 --> 00:40:19,500 I, you know, was quite a psych at the time. I've seen. 585 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:23,460 Pictures of you from back then. You were stunning. You're still gorgeous, 586 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,020 but I mean, you were the epitome of, 587 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:30,540 of like a Vegas showgirl just stunning. 588 00:40:32,580 --> 00:40:35,440 It, it was, and, and as a side note, 589 00:40:35,580 --> 00:40:40,440 to grow up feeling so ugly, I had terrible acne. 590 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,280 I had awful, awful buck teeth, 591 00:40:43,490 --> 00:40:47,080 which I'm so grateful my parents purchased braces for. 592 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,400 I was the only of we three kids to get braces. And I, 593 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,920 I feel very bad that my sister didn't get them. But, you know, 594 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,760 to grow up feeling so unattractive and especially being attracted to boys 595 00:41:02,140 --> 00:41:04,080 and them not looking at me at all, 596 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,500 to reach a moment in my early twenties where, you know, 597 00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:14,860 I I was able to embody kind of an, 598 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,980 an archetype of female sexual attractiveness. 599 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,500 It it was mind boggling. Um, and, 600 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,140 and now I'm fully settled into, you know, if you, 601 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,700 if you look at archetypes and Greek mythology, there's the maiden, 602 00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:34,020 the mother and the crone, and I'm kind of, 603 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,040 I had that maiden moment, 604 00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:42,040 and I'm settled comfortably and happily into the crone moment now, 605 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,720 which is, which this speaks wisdom and experience to me. It's, it's not, 606 00:41:47,220 --> 00:41:51,040 you know, a negative. But at that moment, 607 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,760 I was in my maiden moment, you know, I, I was, uh, 608 00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,400 presenting quite a sight. And this young man, 609 00:42:00,490 --> 00:42:03,590 Barry was attracted to me. Uh, 610 00:42:03,610 --> 00:42:08,190 he came up and invited me out to coffee, and I said, yes, and we started dating. 611 00:42:09,290 --> 00:42:10,590 But unfortunately, 612 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,860 his roommate who was with him spread the rumor amongst the other Army 613 00:42:16,970 --> 00:42:21,700 boys that, that Barry was dating, quote unquote a transsexual. 614 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,010 And thus, that made him gay. Uh, 615 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,850 even though Barry had only ever dated women, was only attracted to women. Um, 616 00:42:31,350 --> 00:42:35,850 but he started receiving Antifa bullying and 617 00:42:35,850 --> 00:42:39,550 harassment, which he never told me, uh, breaks my heart, 618 00:42:39,710 --> 00:42:42,190 I would've helped him, but he didn't tell me that. 619 00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:45,990 And eventually on the 4th of July in 1999, 620 00:42:46,330 --> 00:42:49,950 he was beaten to death in his sleep, uh, 621 00:42:50,010 --> 00:42:54,790 by that roommate and a patriot. Um, 622 00:42:56,350 --> 00:43:01,130 and that began a new chapter 623 00:43:01,430 --> 00:43:05,050 in my life, uh, dealing with that and activism. 624 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,060 I'm so, so sorry that happened. I watched the movie, our, 625 00:43:11,060 --> 00:43:14,940 our mutual friend Andrea James, who we both adore. Uh, 626 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,940 she told me about the film Soldier Girl, soldiers Girl. So I watched that, 627 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:21,700 and I, I mean, 628 00:43:22,030 --> 00:43:25,820 aside from the fact that no one should experience that kind of horrific 629 00:43:27,940 --> 00:43:32,850 experience, uh, I, I can't even, firstly, 630 00:43:32,850 --> 00:43:36,970 it's hard to wrap your brain around people behaving that way, um, 631 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,770 just because somebody is out there just living their life. And secondly, 632 00:43:42,530 --> 00:43:44,730 I watching it and knowing you, 633 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,450 even though we're just getting to know each other better, 634 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,490 that my heart was, and I'm sure you've heard this before, you know, 635 00:43:52,490 --> 00:43:57,010 my heart was breaking. Like, you are a very tender-hearted, lovely woman. 636 00:43:57,950 --> 00:43:59,770 You're, you're very kind. You, 637 00:43:59,770 --> 00:44:03,250 you seem to seek the good in people from what I've, 638 00:44:03,250 --> 00:44:08,190 from what I've seen of you thus far. And I mean, 639 00:44:08,510 --> 00:44:12,430 I couldn't imagine even just sitting in the theater when that premiered and 640 00:44:12,430 --> 00:44:15,710 having to re-traumatize watching that. 641 00:44:18,910 --> 00:44:23,000 Well, it's, it's been almost a quarter century. And, 642 00:44:24,020 --> 00:44:26,630 and, you know, tears still 643 00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:33,040 come when I really think about it. When, um, 644 00:44:34,830 --> 00:44:35,720 when it happened, 645 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,360 I was competing in this Tennessee Entertainer of the Year, 646 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:44,770 so I was actually on stage and I won, 647 00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:49,040 I won the Crown that night. And just looking back, 648 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,600 knowing that as I was winning the crown, you know, he was, 649 00:44:53,740 --> 00:44:56,280 he was being murdered. Um, 650 00:44:58,250 --> 00:45:02,230 and then of course, the media swooped in. 651 00:45:02,290 --> 00:45:06,150 It was a very lurid, you know, 652 00:45:06,750 --> 00:45:11,710 a very lurid idea for a story, I suppose. And, um, 653 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:18,010 they pursued me. They parked vans outside of the nightclub, and, 654 00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:21,290 and I, I didn't wanna talk to anyone, 655 00:45:21,710 --> 00:45:26,690 but I still had to do my shows. I have to pay my rent and my bills and all. So, 656 00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:29,533 um, 657 00:45:30,380 --> 00:45:35,360 but then I was called into court and I was very early in my 658 00:45:35,370 --> 00:45:39,360 transition, and this happened in July, 659 00:45:41,570 --> 00:45:46,030 so it was so hot. And, you know, 660 00:45:46,110 --> 00:45:47,550 I was early in my transition, 661 00:45:47,730 --> 00:45:52,150 so having to wear makeup and a wig 662 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,500 and, you know, 663 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,220 the clothing to the courthouse in that horrible sun 664 00:45:59,530 --> 00:46:04,420 with those cameras just zooming in cad, 665 00:46:04,670 --> 00:46:08,340 every little flaw to make, 666 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,140 trying to make us look bad. 667 00:46:14,410 --> 00:46:17,470 It was a bad, it was a, 668 00:46:17,810 --> 00:46:21,310 it was a bad time and a very vulnerable 669 00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:28,550 time. But thankfully, I did have a lot of help from, 670 00:46:28,810 --> 00:46:29,643 um, 671 00:46:30,940 --> 00:46:35,550 from various L G B T legal organizations, 672 00:46:37,130 --> 00:46:40,230 and we did convict the killers, but unfortunately, 673 00:46:40,230 --> 00:46:42,710 they're both out of prison now. 674 00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:45,470 They're both free all these years later. 675 00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:48,823 I'm sorry. 676 00:46:50,020 --> 00:46:50,853 It's, 677 00:46:51,180 --> 00:46:55,830 it's strange to know that I could go to a Walmart or something and just 678 00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:59,790 bump into Calvin Glover or Justin Fischer, 679 00:47:01,250 --> 00:47:05,510 but you know, they're, they're in different states. 680 00:47:06,060 --> 00:47:06,893 That won't happen. 681 00:47:07,940 --> 00:47:08,610 Yeah. 682 00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:13,510 And I don't know how accurately the film portrayed Barry, 683 00:47:13,930 --> 00:47:18,870 but he certainly seemed like a really beautiful soul and just a 684 00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:22,470 really loving open soul. And it's, 685 00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:27,030 it's a horrific story, but I'm, 686 00:47:27,230 --> 00:47:32,180 I cannot imagine how difficult it must be as a trans person to 687 00:47:32,810 --> 00:47:37,740 find love and experience love because of the bigotry in 688 00:47:37,740 --> 00:47:39,260 the world. Um, 689 00:47:39,260 --> 00:47:43,820 it's hard enough when you're sis you've been given that sort of hall 690 00:47:44,050 --> 00:47:46,380 pass of quote unquote normalcy. 691 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,540 So the fact that you found someone is beautiful, 692 00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:55,020 the fact that they were ripped from you is, is so horrific. 693 00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:59,810 Yes. Even, even now, you know, 694 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:03,130 it's difficult to date as a trans person, of course, 695 00:48:03,130 --> 00:48:07,840 that then in Tennessee and Kentucky, 696 00:48:08,060 --> 00:48:11,480 it was, it was all the more, you know, a, 697 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,560 a truly rare gift. You know, fortunately in, 698 00:48:16,660 --> 00:48:21,000 in the current years, I, I found someone wonderful, um, you know, 699 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,960 who I was with for 12 years. And, and that was 700 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,600 a real gift. But the, the takeaway from 701 00:48:33,150 --> 00:48:37,450 moving forward after Barry was murdered was that, uh, we, 702 00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:41,650 and especially with the movie Soldiers Girl, we were given the opportunity to 703 00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:48,050 speak about the issues around it, to make people aware, 704 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,200 to generate some empathy. And, um, you know, I, 705 00:48:54,270 --> 00:48:59,250 I've been able to speak at, at Oxford and Harvard and, 706 00:48:59,350 --> 00:49:03,410 um, Johns Hopkins and travel all over the world, 707 00:49:04,070 --> 00:49:07,770 and hopefully open some hearts and minds, uh, 708 00:49:07,860 --> 00:49:12,130 speak on ccan and for Congress. Uh, 709 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:14,450 bill Clinton even, uh, 710 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,370 gave a somewhat of an apology at some point, you know, 711 00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:24,330 too little, too late, I have to say, even if that's a little unkind. 712 00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:27,080 But, um, 713 00:49:27,210 --> 00:49:31,090 thankfully we were able to bring some 714 00:49:32,070 --> 00:49:36,960 something forward from Barry's murder. And, um, 715 00:49:37,790 --> 00:49:38,623 that, 716 00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:44,160 it's a real hard part from that though, is that it, 717 00:49:44,980 --> 00:49:45,260 it, 718 00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:50,040 in a sense pulled the curtain on me as an 719 00:49:50,070 --> 00:49:54,660 entertainer, and me as a, just an individual, it, 720 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,860 it came to define me. And when I moved to Hollywood, you know, 721 00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:02,780 I found that even though I had been an entertainer and an actor and a performer 722 00:50:02,780 --> 00:50:03,613 my whole life, 723 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,980 nobody wanted me for the soccer mom and the Subaru commercial when I 724 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,660 was the murder bride, you know, quote unquote, 725 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:17,100 who had been on the cover of the New York Times and Rolling Stone and Vanity 726 00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:21,700 Fair for this awful thing. And in a lot of ways, 727 00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:22,940 it really kind of ended 728 00:50:25,340 --> 00:50:30,250 the possibility for me being an entertainer that wasn't 729 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,730 colored by tragedy. 730 00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:34,440 Yeah. Yeah. 731 00:50:35,850 --> 00:50:40,520 Where did you go with your activism? I know that you did, uh, 732 00:50:40,770 --> 00:50:45,280 aside from talking at these prestigious colleges and on television 733 00:50:45,570 --> 00:50:46,403 about 734 00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:52,200 normalizing and having empathy for the lgbtq plus community, 735 00:50:52,820 --> 00:50:55,960 but how did your activism develop and grow? 736 00:50:56,820 --> 00:50:59,680 And I know you did the Vagina Vagina Monologues, and you've done, 737 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,720 you've written songs and, and you've performed, 738 00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:05,120 and you and Andrea started a production company. 739 00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:10,240 Yeah, I mean, uh, some of the things I'm most proud of other than, um, 740 00:51:10,620 --> 00:51:13,920 you know, things like speaking at the Oxford Union and, and all that, 741 00:51:14,210 --> 00:51:19,160 doing a solo show at, at Harvard's a c t theater. And I, uh, 742 00:51:19,820 --> 00:51:23,000 we, Jane Fonda's son, 743 00:51:23,310 --> 00:51:28,200 Troy Garrity played Barry in the movie Soldiers Girl. And, 744 00:51:28,420 --> 00:51:32,880 um, he, he did a wonderful job, Lee Pace. Uh, 745 00:51:32,910 --> 00:51:36,360 he's a brilliant actor, played me in Soldiers Girl. 746 00:51:36,620 --> 00:51:39,880 And even at the time, um, 747 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:45,400 I had wished that a woman could have played me in the film, 748 00:51:45,620 --> 00:51:50,380 but Hollywood just wasn't there yet. And looking back, 749 00:51:50,450 --> 00:51:54,820 it's easy to criticize having a cis male actor play a trans part, 750 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,910 but we just weren't there at the time. And, um. 751 00:51:59,430 --> 00:52:01,630 I thought he did a beautiful job with it, though. 752 00:52:02,750 --> 00:52:07,550 I do too. Uh, it was his first role out of Juilliard, and, um, 753 00:52:08,290 --> 00:52:13,000 he brought all of his talent to it, and, and he, 754 00:52:13,150 --> 00:52:17,480 they were all rightfully nominated for Golden Globes and Emmys and, 755 00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:21,400 and all that. Um, I'm grateful, you know, 756 00:52:21,420 --> 00:52:25,880 as a product of its time, it was the best that we could have hoped for. 757 00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:30,000 It was written by non-white Ron Wanner, who wrote Philadelphia. 758 00:52:32,060 --> 00:52:37,000 But, um, through Troy playing my boyfriend, 759 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,760 I met and became friends with Jane Fonda, uh, 760 00:52:40,770 --> 00:52:45,560 which became a whole other thing. I, we became personal friends. 761 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,760 I spent the summer with her. I, I cooked Christmas dinner for her. 762 00:52:50,660 --> 00:52:53,290 And she goes without saying, 763 00:52:53,590 --> 00:52:58,490 is an amazing woman who herself has a lifetime of 764 00:52:58,490 --> 00:52:59,970 stories to tell. And 765 00:53:01,630 --> 00:53:06,210 she had partnered with Eve Enzler, the creator of the Vagina Monologues. 766 00:53:06,550 --> 00:53:08,650 And through those connections, 767 00:53:08,910 --> 00:53:13,610 Andrea James and I put on the first all trans women 768 00:53:13,780 --> 00:53:18,570 production of the Vagina Monologues, uh, here in, in Hollywood. 769 00:53:19,110 --> 00:53:23,490 And it was, uh, you know, a star studded attendance. Uh, 770 00:53:23,490 --> 00:53:28,100 all the glitterati came and we raised money for the LA 771 00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:32,660 Commission on assault against women and, uh, other women's charities. 772 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,580 And we brought all the most, um, interesting, powerful, 773 00:53:40,180 --> 00:53:44,860 creative trans women of that moment that we could get there. 774 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,860 You know, there were certainly some who couldn't come or whatever, but we had, 775 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,220 we had doctors, lawyers, airline pilots, activists, sex workers, 776 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,300 um, community organizers. We had it, 777 00:53:58,650 --> 00:54:02,430 it was a truly amazing event. And, um, 778 00:54:03,970 --> 00:54:04,910 you know, it, it's, 779 00:54:05,220 --> 00:54:08,390 it's one of the things I'm most proud of in terms of activism. 780 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,760 Absolutely. Jane Fonda is somebody I admire as well. 781 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,520 I think she's done a lot of really phenomenal things, uh, 782 00:54:18,860 --> 00:54:22,440 and in the face of a lot of adversity at times, I had no idea that was her son. 783 00:54:22,460 --> 00:54:23,840 He did an excellent job as well. 784 00:54:24,550 --> 00:54:27,480 Yeah, Troy Garrity, he, he took his, uh, 785 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:32,360 grandmother's name to try to try to work without coasting 786 00:54:32,420 --> 00:54:33,480 on the Fonda name. 787 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:39,280 I would be remiss to not bring up the fact that right now anti-trans legislation 788 00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:40,960 is, is running amok. 789 00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:46,410 Well, unfortunately, my home state of Tennessee, 790 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,090 alongside Texas, uh, 791 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:54,170 have been leaders in just awful anti L G 792 00:54:54,210 --> 00:54:59,170 B T and ly trans legislation. And, and that hurts. 793 00:54:59,260 --> 00:55:04,210 Cause when you're from Tennessee, it's kind of built into you. 794 00:55:04,210 --> 00:55:09,050 There's a Tennessee pride and, and outsiders will laugh at it. They're like, 795 00:55:09,050 --> 00:55:11,810 why are you proud of being a hillbilly? Why are you proud of being poor? 796 00:55:11,810 --> 00:55:16,490 Or Why are you proud of being in the 40th 42nd place and national 797 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,490 education or whatever. But there, 798 00:55:19,580 --> 00:55:24,170 there are beautiful things about Tennessee and about growing up there 799 00:55:24,390 --> 00:55:26,610 and the people and the culture and the food. 800 00:55:27,690 --> 00:55:31,970 I love Tennessee and I'm proud to have grown up there, 801 00:55:32,070 --> 00:55:34,490 but I'm not proud of what our 802 00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:41,300 religious leaders and what our legislators are doing. And it, it, 803 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,900 it just breaks my heart. I mean, sometimes I just feel powerless. 804 00:55:44,970 --> 00:55:49,500 It's like watching this big behemoth steamroll over 805 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,020 all of our rights. 806 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,590 But I do my little part and I support 807 00:55:55,860 --> 00:55:57,310 financially and, 808 00:55:57,770 --> 00:56:01,190 and emotionally and however else I can, 809 00:56:01,370 --> 00:56:05,950 any of the activist organizations, and I still do fundraisers. 810 00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:10,510 My, my whole job in Los Angeles was doing charity 811 00:56:11,350 --> 00:56:15,910 fundraisers for everything from AIDS life cycle to providing 812 00:56:16,100 --> 00:56:20,030 inclusive playground equipment for children with disabilities, et cetera. 813 00:56:20,330 --> 00:56:25,140 We raised millions and millions of dollars for those until covid shut 814 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:29,010 all that down. You know, I, I just, 815 00:56:29,250 --> 00:56:33,530 I do what I can Yeah. But with my talents. 816 00:56:34,590 --> 00:56:36,420 Let's talk about the birds . 817 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:38,260 For. 818 00:56:38,260 --> 00:56:39,093 Anybody listening, 819 00:56:39,290 --> 00:56:43,900 they probably heard some squawking going on in the background. And that is your, 820 00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:45,060 your family. 821 00:56:45,820 --> 00:56:47,820 . I do apologize. 822 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:53,020 I'm fully to be hendron Hendron out here. I, um, 823 00:56:53,540 --> 00:56:57,100 I fantasized since I was a child of owning a cockatoo, 824 00:56:57,380 --> 00:57:02,220 I used to draw cartoons as a very young child of me with a big 825 00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:06,010 white cockatoo on my shoulder. And finally, 826 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:11,250 several years ago, I was settled. I was, you know, stable. 827 00:57:11,690 --> 00:57:16,410 I had a income and everything, but cockatoos are very large birds, 828 00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:20,850 and they, they actually need, you know, a lot of specific hair. 829 00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:23,810 So I purchased a cockatiel, 830 00:57:24,020 --> 00:57:26,810 which is like a miniature tiny cockatoo, 831 00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:31,450 and I just fell in love, you know, they're so intelligent. 832 00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:36,480 My little boy Suge is short for sugar dumpling. He, 833 00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:40,280 he looks me in the eye every morning and speaks the words, 834 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,720 I love you. He says, I love you. 835 00:57:44,540 --> 00:57:48,480 And when he does something he wants you to see, he says, good boy, 836 00:57:49,390 --> 00:57:53,410 good boy. And, you know, so I, 837 00:57:53,650 --> 00:57:58,050 I got him what I thought was a brother, and it turned out to be a girl. 838 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:04,540 And so they ended up, uh, doing what many boys and girls do. 839 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:06,580 And now I have four children. 840 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:12,220 So I have six cock heels that swarm me, 841 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,420 fly about me, land on me, and through my hair, 842 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,380 and talk to me and whistle at me all day. 843 00:58:18,850 --> 00:58:21,420 Yeah, you have a delightful Instagram. Uh, 844 00:58:21,810 --> 00:58:25,620 it's aside from the fabulous snarkiness that you have with Andrea, 845 00:58:25,620 --> 00:58:29,060 which is great, and I love following that, that you two do with each other. 846 00:58:29,580 --> 00:58:30,540 I, I think a lot of, 847 00:58:30,940 --> 00:58:35,820 a lot of a big segment of people who first started following me 848 00:58:35,820 --> 00:58:40,400 started following me when I was kind of a glamorous Vegas style 849 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:45,360 showgirl. So there was, there were a lot of posts of, you know, me at the club, 850 00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:50,440 me painted in wigs and drenched in diamonds and, you know, 851 00:58:50,550 --> 00:58:55,000 this and that. But I have kind of transitioned now to, uh, 852 00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:59,920 I mostly post my very elaborate homemade southern cooking 853 00:59:00,620 --> 00:59:05,320 and the funny hygienes of my birds. And surprisingly, 854 00:59:05,540 --> 00:59:09,960 uh, my followers have stuck around. They don't mind the, the transition. 855 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,000 Absolutely. Let's talk about how people can find you, where, 856 00:59:14,010 --> 00:59:17,800 where you are out there on the worldwide web aons of life. 857 00:59:19,790 --> 00:59:24,100 Well, Julius Caesar's wife was named Calpurnia. 858 00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,420 And, um, she, uh, 859 00:59:27,630 --> 00:59:32,580 thankfully enough had a dream in which she saw fountains of blood 860 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,900 and predicted that his friends would kill him. She said, 861 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:38,420 beware the eyes of March. 862 00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:44,100 And I chose this name before I'd ever met Barry, who was killed by his friends. 863 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:50,070 And, uh, but I chose it because Shakespeare, you know, 864 00:59:50,070 --> 00:59:52,230 name Julius Caesar's wife is Calpurnia, 865 00:59:52,290 --> 00:59:53,870 and I thought that was an interesting name. 866 00:59:54,420 --> 00:59:56,910 Then in the book To Kill a Mockingbird, 867 00:59:57,490 --> 01:00:02,430 the loving Mother figure to scout. And Jim was the maid, Calpurnia. 868 01:00:02,810 --> 01:00:06,310 And lastly, in the Adams family movie, 869 01:00:06,540 --> 01:00:11,230 Wednesday's great-Aunt Calpurnia was burned as a witch in 1706 870 01:00:11,530 --> 01:00:15,190 before dancing naked in the town square and in enslaving a minister, 871 01:00:16,140 --> 01:00:20,760 all of those Calpurnia are spelled with a u I am at 872 01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:21,840 Calpurnia, 873 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,320 spelled with an E c A L p e R N I A 874 01:00:26,900 --> 01:00:30,800 on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, on TikTok. 875 01:00:30,980 --> 01:00:33,920 I'm Calpurnia Adams with two Ds, 876 01:00:35,110 --> 01:00:39,680 Calpurnia with a double D. Or you can just go to calpurnia.com. 877 01:00:40,580 --> 01:00:43,550 Perfect. And I'll put links on, Hey, human podcast, 878 01:00:43,850 --> 01:00:47,470 so people can find you quite easily, your story. 879 01:00:48,450 --> 01:00:53,230 It certainly resembles a lot of the tragic tales of your, 880 01:00:53,690 --> 01:00:57,350 um, but you've also had some really beautiful, 881 01:00:57,370 --> 01:01:00,790 lovely moments too. And I hope, 882 01:01:02,550 --> 01:01:05,510 I hope that those keep you going and buoy you 883 01:01:07,220 --> 01:01:10,800 as you move, you know, through your life and you keep going forward. I mean, 884 01:01:10,860 --> 01:01:11,880 you're a survivor. 885 01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,620 My life is full of love, and I have dear, dear, 886 01:01:18,910 --> 01:01:23,140 close deep friends who are more family than friends. Um, 887 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,100 not the Lisa, which is, um, Ms. Andrea James, 888 01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:31,220 who deserves her own book and documentary and, and my, my babies, 889 01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:35,340 my birds. I, I'm very blessed despite all the tragedy, 890 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,900 and I'm happy and I look forward to seeing what's next. 891 01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:44,220 Absolutely. You're still finding the notes, you're still figuring out, 892 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,180 we know what's to come, which is, I think as human beings, 893 01:01:48,690 --> 01:01:52,940 it's all we can hope for is that we are constantly on that Ithaca journey 894 01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,820 trying to figure out along the way, 895 01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,700 on the way there to whatever that there is. 896 01:02:01,170 --> 01:02:04,700 Exactly. There's, there's so much more to see and, 897 01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,820 and the bad stuff that happens. Uh, you know, it's, 898 01:02:07,890 --> 01:02:11,860 it's just all the more put in the distance every time you discover something 899 01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:12,940 new. That's wonderful. 900 01:02:13,930 --> 01:02:18,100 Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing your story today, Kardinia. 901 01:02:18,140 --> 01:02:19,460 I I really appreciate it. 902 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,040 I appreciate you for having me. And, and thank you so much. 903 01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,800 Absolutely. Thank you for listening, everybody. Bye. 904 01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:29,133 See you soon. 905 01:02:31,950 --> 01:02:35,680 Rate review and subscribe to, Hey, human Podcast on iTunes, Spotify, 906 01:02:36,020 --> 01:02:39,320 or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks. Bye.