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Hey, humans.

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How's it going?

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Thank you so much for thing. I really

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appreciate it. Thank you for subscribing

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to hey

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on

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itunes.

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It helps to get the numbers up and

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story out. Thank you for telling your friends

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about hey, human

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and

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because they tell their friends,

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and it is exponential.

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And if there's anything on any of these

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shows that you would like to talk to

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me about, please email me My email is

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Susan

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at hey human podcast dot com.

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If you know some interesting people that you

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think would be good for this go, let

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me know.

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If you listen to a podcast, and you

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have questions for a previous guest,

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let me know. Some of these,

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I guess I've had... I have more questions

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for. So

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definitely gonna have some people coming back. Oh,

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and also, if you're in the Maryland area,

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September tenth and eleventh. I'm gonna be performing

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music. I'm a singer song as well, performing

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music at Chat Bud Winery,

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and and that is in Chesapeake City, Maryland.

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I'll be performing with in a round. That's

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what we saw writers call it in around

35
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with Megan Lin

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and Paul Jenkins

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and

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Sam Brooke. So it's gonna be a really

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great weekend of new sick and wine, what

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a combo.

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This particular

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episode is with Karen Lynch.

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She is a retired

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police officer,

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San Francisco police officer, and she was 1

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of the first

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female officers in San Francisco.

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So that's a very cool thing. She wrote

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a memoir, which I devoured. It's really good.

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It's called good cop,

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bad daughter.

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And,

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gosh. I mean, I let the interviews fee

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for itself, but she's a delightful woman, and

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I really enjoyed speaking with her

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Alright. Karen Lynch.

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Hey, Human podcast.

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Hello?

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Hi. Can you see me? Let's see Front

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camera.

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Okay. Let's see. Okay. I see you and

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then okay. There's the. There should be a

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button that says camera? Is it too dark?

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I'm part of in the corner of my

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kitchen and there realize that it's a little

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darker than I thought it would be.

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No. You look great. Can you see me

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now? Where you are. Yay.

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Okay. Good. Hi. Okay. Fine How are you?

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I'm well. How are you?

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Good. It's good to meet you. It's good

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to meet you? Yeah. I'm gonna let's see

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here. I'm the my microphone. I've got I've

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got 2 computers running at the same time.

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So all very exciting technology.

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But I'm only recording the audio. Not that.

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So I'm just paying attention the levels to

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see where I am for things like

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the gain and the volume. Say to say

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a little something just I can see if

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I can. A little something. There you go.

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Gee. I look better on radio.

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It's totally y'all. Throw y'all.

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Okay. That should help.

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Cool. I'll you the fit. Right? I don't

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I don't know that much about you, but

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you're a musician. I was performing some writer.

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And and,

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dabble in writing poetry and books and things,

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but nothing nothing concrete yet, and then

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painter.

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My painter or too.

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Right. Cool. And a podcast apparently.

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Wow was that pretty. Yeah. Yeah.

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Well, okay. So when I guess, we just

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get started really,

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welcome Karen. Thank you for being on a

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human. I really appreciate it.

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Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Yeah.

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I, your book, right here, good cop, bad

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daughter.

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I loved it. I really did. I I

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blew through it. I read it so quickly

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because I I saw myself,

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my childhood and a lot of things.

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I had it... I'm I'm sorry.

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No. That's what it is. I had some

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similar experiences.

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Nobody ever tried to set me on fire,

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but there were a couple other

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Hairy moments. So...

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Yeah. There's so I always talk to you

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about... It's it's your... First of all, you're

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1 of the very first female cups in

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America. Correct?

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Well,

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I was 1 of the first generation. I

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was not actually the 1 of the first

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in San Francisco. They first started hiring women

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in 19 77 at came in at 19

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81. Okay But at that time, they were

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still quite that we were were not, and

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you know, there were very a few of

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us There were maybe a hundred at this

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time.

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So other people that paved the road for

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me. But by the time I got there,

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we were still not really wanted and I

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had to deal with a lot of that

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a lot of just amazing, I think to

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try to scare us that of doing the

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job. Yeah. So that it was still kind

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of a sense that it it was kind

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of in our hands to prove

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because that when and could do the job

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because the popular belief was that we were

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too coward and too weak to emotional,

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all of these sort of stereotypes about women.

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And so we felt kind of a,

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a weight on our shoulders

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to prove that women could do this so

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that the doors would be open, but kept

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her. It would just take a minute of

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a man giving birth to realize that a

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woman is the a thousand times jog.

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Well, it true. You know, in some ways,

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I think,

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maybe we fear pain a little less. I

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don't know. I mean, I think after you've

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given birth it does kind of,

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make you feel like I yeah, I can

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take it. Yeah. Yeah. So... Okay. Let's I

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guess start from the beginning. It's the it's

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always the best place to start. You were

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born in San Francisco.

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Yes. That

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came from the East Coast and they... They

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wanted to be writers, which is kind of

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ironic because They didn't have much success with

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that. They both did write and they had

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some, but

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some poetry readings and staff during the beat.

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Each and. And they had bit word here

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by that whole beat

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Jack Kara.

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Sure. Or curling getty scene. Out. So I'm

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really happy. The 1 thing that I will

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never ever regret, but they moved out here

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and I was born here because it's such

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a great place to be.

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What was it like growing up

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in that in the height of the height

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Ash

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time frame.

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Well, I had just such an citing childhood

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because,

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after my parents got divorced, my my mother

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hooked up with the man, I call my

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step father it's really just the live boyfriend

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who eventually saved me in the book gym.

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Yeah. And he when she met me me

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had a a bookstore, and they just at

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the beginning of sort of the whole hippie

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stage, they started,

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right into making buttons, button titles. That,

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became really popular and they were served by

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the cutting edge of the whole button and

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bumper her sticker scene. And so the bookstore

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kind of dissolved and they opened the head

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heads shop that had posters and all the

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beautiful film posters in the Avalon and all

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of things that are now artwork that I

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sure wish Can. Oh, man.

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Yeah. But they would... It was fun, You

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know, they would sit around drinking 1 with

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other people in the store, other customers and

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friends and and they would

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shout out different

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ideas for button titles. Like, you know? I

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mean, obviously, the... You know, what if they

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gave war nobody came? Those those kind of

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things, but to your your mom and jim

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and those couple friends, they invented these

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iconic

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sayings. Let's take a second to acknowledge that.

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That is incredible of it. Yeah. A lot

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of them they did. I mean, not that

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particular 1 I that 1 was 1 that

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they it but just I don't know where

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who invented that 1. But,

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it's silly went. Like, my mother would come

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up with stuff, like, go intercourse ice self

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or

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oh, gosh. There's so many, Some of them,

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some moment but it was so fun. Just...

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You know, it was really creative and fun

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and and people,

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like, at some high school students would would

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come and hang out there, and it was

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really cool to see the beginning of that.

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And and my my step father would deliver

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buttons and posters to the stores on hate,

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and we would bring them down and bring

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them in and I got to be, like,

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his little helper

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and I just remember walking down Eighth Street

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and people trying to sell us at to,

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you know, window pain, all that kind of

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stuff be advertising. I think it might have

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been before it was the illegal to use

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L lsd. Is nobody really knew what it

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was yet. Yeah. Timothy Lee had

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shouted from the rooftops at that point yet.

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We should have kept a quiet at.

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No. No, actually, I think Ellis lsd was

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not the best thing the way the way

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people were taking it any way it's. You

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know. I mean, I'm sure it's it it

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could be really good if it was

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refined, but I think this... They were selling

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on the street have a lot of Other

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stuff? Other stuff in Yeah. I I spent

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AAA

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year in high school, every

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of every other weekend, my friends and I

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would go to the beach or whatever, and

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we would take acid and just have a

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ball.

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Oh. Well you must've have had the good

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step. I think so Probably. Yeah. It was

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a great time.

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Miss thank you for sure.

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Oh, yeah. So

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I... I'm trying to think of the best

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way to approach this

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conversation, the book is great. That you wrote

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a memoir and about your childhood and growing

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up in your decision to join the police

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force when you're when your mom

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was considered them basically nazis. And I believe

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is what she referred to the police as

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First, this book, it read, like, a great

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fiction book.

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That's a compliment. I mean, here's your life

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is playing out like this the craziest

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truth is stranger than fiction. Right? This crazy.

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I I couldn't put it down honestly. It

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would make a great movie if you ever

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think about doing that. But,

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actually trying to make it into a television

271
00:10:06,117 --> 00:10:08,434
and theories right now. So... Oh, that's great.

272
00:10:08,753 --> 00:10:10,431
My fingers crossed that it will all work

273
00:10:10,431 --> 00:10:12,279
out. Oh, I'll cross my fingers too. That

274
00:10:12,279 --> 00:10:14,742
would be amazing. Because I look for good

275
00:10:14,742 --> 00:10:16,489
cop, bad daughter, the series.

276
00:10:16,886 --> 00:10:19,031
Yes. I mean, it's... It'd be a great

277
00:10:19,031 --> 00:10:20,620
series. For sure, like,

278
00:10:21,588 --> 00:10:23,417
could just picture the pluck child that is,

279
00:10:23,576 --> 00:10:23,974
you know.

280
00:10:24,610 --> 00:10:27,154
Yeah. So great. They're lot of different. Yeah.

281
00:10:27,393 --> 00:10:29,514
Angle you could do what it. Starts they're

282
00:10:29,554 --> 00:10:30,031
a lot of...

283
00:10:30,984 --> 00:10:33,129
Yeah. My life was so strange. I think

284
00:10:33,129 --> 00:10:35,671
that's why I I always felt compelled to

285
00:10:35,671 --> 00:10:37,521
write a more memoir. I wanted people

286
00:10:37,895 --> 00:10:39,379
to know. After I read

287
00:10:40,139 --> 00:10:42,936
Janet Walls book, the glass castle. Mh.

288
00:10:43,415 --> 00:10:45,094
I felt... That was in my thirties, I

289
00:10:45,094 --> 00:10:46,772
think. And I felt like, oh, my god.

290
00:10:46,932 --> 00:10:48,530
I wish there had been books like this

291
00:10:48,530 --> 00:10:49,763
when I was a teenager

292
00:10:50,375 --> 00:10:52,043
because when you're going through it and you're

293
00:10:52,043 --> 00:10:54,109
watching the brady bunch or whatever and you

294
00:10:54,109 --> 00:10:54,609
think

295
00:10:54,983 --> 00:10:57,580
everybody else in America has this normal life

296
00:10:57,699 --> 00:11:00,169
when normal whatever that is. And you have

297
00:11:00,169 --> 00:11:03,117
this, you know, horrible thing and who... How

298
00:11:03,117 --> 00:11:04,710
were you supposed to navigate it.

299
00:11:06,064 --> 00:11:07,911
I just thought, you know, we need more

300
00:11:07,911 --> 00:11:10,161
books like this. We need books about people

301
00:11:10,377 --> 00:11:10,877
surviving

302
00:11:11,649 --> 00:11:14,593
bizarre and crappy childhood heads to sort of,

303
00:11:14,672 --> 00:11:14,831
like,

304
00:11:15,547 --> 00:11:16,080
just to

305
00:11:17,397 --> 00:11:20,669
to give encouragement to other people. Yeah. We're

306
00:11:20,669 --> 00:11:22,664
right. To to young people almost. To talk

307
00:11:22,664 --> 00:11:24,715
about what what we're talking about because I

308
00:11:24,834 --> 00:11:26,510
read the book. So I know your story,

309
00:11:26,989 --> 00:11:27,547
everyone listening,

310
00:11:28,186 --> 00:11:29,563
although they'll read the little,

311
00:11:30,101 --> 00:11:32,016
you know, description when they listen to the

312
00:11:32,016 --> 00:11:32,415
podcast,

313
00:11:32,987 --> 00:11:33,805
talk about

314
00:11:34,496 --> 00:11:37,118
sort of the general aspect of of your

315
00:11:37,118 --> 00:11:37,356
life.

316
00:11:38,468 --> 00:11:39,842
Well, my mother was bipolar.

317
00:11:40,534 --> 00:11:43,099
And so the first step the first real

318
00:11:43,099 --> 00:11:45,013
chapter after the pro log begins. I was

319
00:11:45,013 --> 00:11:46,311
committed to a mental hospital

320
00:11:46,688 --> 00:11:49,001
went before I was born because she was...

321
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:49,900
I was

322
00:11:50,357 --> 00:11:53,158
in Ut, with her at Ag State Hospital.

323
00:11:53,317 --> 00:11:55,464
And, of course, I don't remember that. I

324
00:11:55,464 --> 00:11:57,453
would be very freaky if I do. I

325
00:11:57,453 --> 00:11:59,362
have a very good memory which is strange

326
00:11:59,441 --> 00:12:01,527
I can remember so much from my childhood

327
00:12:01,527 --> 00:12:03,917
did back to about Age 2. I think

328
00:12:03,917 --> 00:12:06,727
because it was so vivid and traumatic and

329
00:12:06,944 --> 00:12:08,696
all of that so many changing scenes.

330
00:12:09,348 --> 00:12:11,411
And part of her mental illness was

331
00:12:12,046 --> 00:12:13,871
she would take me she loved to travel

332
00:12:13,871 --> 00:12:16,093
and she would take around the world, but

333
00:12:16,093 --> 00:12:17,815
she didn't like to fly. She was a

334
00:12:18,093 --> 00:12:20,399
flying. So we took trains and ships.

335
00:12:21,035 --> 00:12:23,022
But the problem was whenever she get to

336
00:12:23,022 --> 00:12:26,146
a place within a few weeks, months or

337
00:12:26,362 --> 00:12:28,446
well, however long. She would have some sort

338
00:12:28,446 --> 00:12:30,677
of breakdown and end up either,

339
00:12:31,314 --> 00:12:33,386
abandoning me somewhere, and I would be, you

340
00:12:33,386 --> 00:12:35,951
know, wandering around loss did h 5 in

341
00:12:36,270 --> 00:12:37,467
Japan, or

342
00:12:38,105 --> 00:12:39,780
or in England, I ended up in a

343
00:12:39,780 --> 00:12:41,933
children's home for some time for a couple

344
00:12:41,933 --> 00:12:42,651
of months, I think.

345
00:12:43,768 --> 00:12:44,268
And

346
00:12:45,376 --> 00:12:47,281
so... And she would end up in these

347
00:12:47,281 --> 00:12:48,496
various site awards

348
00:12:49,108 --> 00:12:49,664
around the... Well,

349
00:12:50,537 --> 00:12:52,363
England was really. The only 1 outside the

350
00:12:52,363 --> 00:12:54,689
country, but ended up in Cy words quite

351
00:12:54,689 --> 00:12:55,189
frequently

352
00:12:55,646 --> 00:12:56,305
in California.

353
00:12:58,118 --> 00:13:00,431
And so that was kind of, I I

354
00:13:00,431 --> 00:13:02,026
say the book is about how my mother

355
00:13:02,026 --> 00:13:03,657
trained me to be a police officer

356
00:13:04,354 --> 00:13:05,551
because in a lot of ways,

357
00:13:07,785 --> 00:13:10,111
learning how to deal with her had to

358
00:13:10,111 --> 00:13:11,882
calm her down when she was crazy,

359
00:13:13,051 --> 00:13:13,869
how to

360
00:13:14,322 --> 00:13:15,299
talk to her

361
00:13:16,706 --> 00:13:19,768
really sort of did give me a good

362
00:13:19,984 --> 00:13:21,496
idea of how to talk to people who

363
00:13:21,496 --> 00:13:23,884
are in altered states and and just to

364
00:13:23,884 --> 00:13:25,873
be very calm and things like that and,

365
00:13:25,953 --> 00:13:28,835
you know, not argue with them or or

366
00:13:28,835 --> 00:13:29,950
confront them things like that.

367
00:13:30,667 --> 00:13:31,167
And

368
00:13:31,623 --> 00:13:33,669
in a in a unconscious way, I think

369
00:13:33,789 --> 00:13:35,458
and I didn't really realize this until I

370
00:13:35,458 --> 00:13:36,889
finish the book. And that's 1 of the

371
00:13:36,889 --> 00:13:39,035
interesting things about writing them memoir is you

372
00:13:39,035 --> 00:13:40,728
get a really sort of

373
00:13:41,754 --> 00:13:43,826
a more interesting look at your own life

374
00:13:43,826 --> 00:13:45,979
and all of the things that I tied

375
00:13:45,979 --> 00:13:46,297
together.

376
00:13:46,935 --> 00:13:49,566
And at some point, I realized that unconsciously,

377
00:13:49,725 --> 00:13:53,231
I had wanted to arm myself to protect

378
00:13:53,231 --> 00:13:55,134
myself from this woman who had tried to

379
00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:56,824
kill me who had done all these

380
00:13:57,435 --> 00:13:59,671
traumatic things to me. But the book isn't,

381
00:13:59,751 --> 00:14:01,338
like, oh, my god. My mother was so

382
00:14:01,338 --> 00:14:03,084
horrible. She did all these horrible things to

383
00:14:03,084 --> 00:14:04,750
me. And that that it wasn't really, you

384
00:14:04,750 --> 00:14:06,989
know, the message I wanted to convey. I

385
00:14:06,989 --> 00:14:08,585
wanted to convey that, you know, she was

386
00:14:08,585 --> 00:14:11,537
a complex character. She did many. Wonderful things

387
00:14:11,537 --> 00:14:13,212
for me too. She taught me a left

388
00:14:13,212 --> 00:14:16,016
of books and and brought me to some

389
00:14:16,016 --> 00:14:18,006
really interesting places that I'm really glad I

390
00:14:18,006 --> 00:14:19,518
got to see and live in, and they

391
00:14:19,518 --> 00:14:20,792
were beautiful and interesting.

392
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:23,418
Met so many people. But at the same

393
00:14:23,418 --> 00:14:23,657
time,

394
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:26,570
you know, it it was

395
00:14:27,029 --> 00:14:29,269
very difficult call. You have mentioned in the

396
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:32,549
book about how your mother's eye color would

397
00:14:32,549 --> 00:14:34,882
change And every time when use... You mentioned

398
00:14:35,042 --> 00:14:35,921
I 3 times.

399
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,197
And when you describe it, I I had

400
00:14:39,197 --> 00:14:41,035
no does that happen in mental illness that

401
00:14:41,035 --> 00:14:42,639
people I cut... Or is that something that

402
00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:44,704
was just a a metaphor or...

403
00:14:45,418 --> 00:14:47,483
No. It was real, and I don't know.

404
00:14:48,356 --> 00:14:51,892
I don't know that many more bipolar people

405
00:14:52,109 --> 00:14:53,863
well enough to know, you know, I would

406
00:14:53,863 --> 00:14:55,537
encounter them in the street at worked, but

407
00:14:55,696 --> 00:14:57,051
I wouldn't know what their eye color had

408
00:14:57,051 --> 00:14:58,940
been before. But with my mother, it was

409
00:14:59,220 --> 00:15:00,659
absolutely true. It was not a metaphor for.

410
00:15:00,820 --> 00:15:04,759
She had very deep vivid blue eyes and

411
00:15:04,899 --> 00:15:06,440
when she would become

412
00:15:06,914 --> 00:15:09,066
when she'd go to a manic state, I

413
00:15:09,066 --> 00:15:10,820
would see her eye color lightning.

414
00:15:12,414 --> 00:15:14,566
Ai would become lighter and lighter till it

415
00:15:14,566 --> 00:15:15,798
the point where was

416
00:15:16,411 --> 00:15:17,444
almost like a white,

417
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:19,852
gray, you know, It was not...

418
00:15:20,783 --> 00:15:23,167
It was very strange. And that even before

419
00:15:23,167 --> 00:15:23,882
they start saying,

420
00:15:24,612 --> 00:15:26,701
you know, as a child, I knew intuitively

421
00:15:27,153 --> 00:15:29,059
that whatever was going on in her brain

422
00:15:29,059 --> 00:15:29,797
was biochemical.

423
00:15:30,250 --> 00:15:31,600
There was no doubt about it because I

424
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,605
could see the chemical street of body changing.

425
00:15:33,764 --> 00:15:35,039
Right Mean, that to me that was the

426
00:15:35,039 --> 00:15:35,437
evidence.

427
00:15:36,075 --> 00:15:37,908
So... And and they knew that. I mean,

428
00:15:37,987 --> 00:15:40,312
they... At that time, the treatment was with

429
00:15:40,312 --> 00:15:41,289
them, which

430
00:15:41,901 --> 00:15:42,933
she refused to take,

431
00:15:43,648 --> 00:15:45,873
because it required blood tests that required,

432
00:15:46,428 --> 00:15:47,461
she... She was never,

433
00:15:48,494 --> 00:15:50,737
willing to do that and plus the Manic

434
00:15:50,737 --> 00:15:53,050
state. It's really exciting. It's like being on

435
00:15:53,050 --> 00:15:54,964
speed or something, I think. And I mean,

436
00:15:55,203 --> 00:15:57,378
I don't know. I... I've never been manic

437
00:15:57,516 --> 00:15:58,574
per s. But

438
00:15:59,430 --> 00:16:01,513
I don't think when people are are in

439
00:16:01,513 --> 00:16:03,501
the Manic state they want to end. I

440
00:16:03,501 --> 00:16:05,728
think it feels good to them. It's just

441
00:16:05,728 --> 00:16:06,625
that it creates

442
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,330
disaster for their lives and the people around

443
00:16:09,330 --> 00:16:10,129
those. Sure.

444
00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:13,089
Sure. So, like, when she tried to set

445
00:16:13,089 --> 00:16:14,690
you on fire, was that a manic phase

446
00:16:14,690 --> 00:16:15,649
or a depressed phase?

447
00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:18,615
That was her her manic phase was,

448
00:16:19,331 --> 00:16:21,001
when she would do those kind of things.

449
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,570
The depressive phase, she would just

450
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:24,840
day in,

451
00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:25,879
bed,

452
00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:28,299
smoked tons of cigarettes and.

453
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:30,120
She was pretty,

454
00:16:31,494 --> 00:16:33,732
into very into history, and my very much

455
00:16:33,732 --> 00:16:36,529
an intellectual. She she read everything in sight,

456
00:16:36,689 --> 00:16:38,207
and she could talk about all sorts of

457
00:16:38,207 --> 00:16:38,847
subjects jackson,

458
00:16:39,406 --> 00:16:41,258
things like that never been to call, but,

459
00:16:41,897 --> 00:16:44,290
just self educated and and red and red

460
00:16:44,290 --> 00:16:46,365
and red. And she did... She would spend

461
00:16:46,365 --> 00:16:47,881
years like that, like, a year or 2

462
00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:49,492
in bed. I mean, not just in bed.

463
00:16:49,732 --> 00:16:51,009
She did get up to do stuff, but

464
00:16:51,009 --> 00:16:53,084
just spent hours waiting and reading and reading.

465
00:16:53,483 --> 00:16:55,478
But when she went manic, that was when

466
00:16:55,478 --> 00:16:58,070
all bets were off, and it felt very

467
00:16:58,529 --> 00:17:00,529
scary as a child because it was, like

468
00:17:00,529 --> 00:17:02,850
she could do anything, and I couldn't even

469
00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:04,609
imagine the stuff she was gonna come up

470
00:17:04,609 --> 00:17:06,049
with. You know? And,

471
00:17:06,785 --> 00:17:08,625
So, yeah, the episode with the fire thing.

472
00:17:08,945 --> 00:17:11,025
I don't know what her intention was, but

473
00:17:11,664 --> 00:17:13,664
but, yeah. She brought me to a church

474
00:17:13,664 --> 00:17:16,394
and then set my hair on while lighting

475
00:17:16,394 --> 00:17:17,451
candles. And

476
00:17:18,542 --> 00:17:20,849
you know, and that was just bizarre, and

477
00:17:21,008 --> 00:17:22,494
I think at some point she

478
00:17:23,409 --> 00:17:24,046
became convinced,

479
00:17:24,682 --> 00:17:27,012
usually should become convinced I was

480
00:17:27,387 --> 00:17:29,867
possessed by demons or something like that. And,

481
00:17:29,946 --> 00:17:32,326
you know, that her job was to wipe

482
00:17:32,326 --> 00:17:35,127
me out. Is very interesting the link between

483
00:17:35,262 --> 00:17:38,799
highly intelligent people and that wave of insanity

484
00:17:39,017 --> 00:17:39,256
that...

485
00:17:40,451 --> 00:17:42,843
Yeah. It it is very interesting. I I

486
00:17:42,843 --> 00:17:43,959
read a lot of about it because those

487
00:17:43,959 --> 00:17:44,756
coarse thing, You know?

488
00:17:45,809 --> 00:17:47,569
I've always been afraid this is gonna happen

489
00:17:47,569 --> 00:17:49,250
to me or to my kids or something.

490
00:17:49,650 --> 00:17:51,170
So I have right about that end. And

491
00:17:51,170 --> 00:17:53,730
it does seem like there... There's a link

492
00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:57,009
obviously between creativity and and be this. And

493
00:17:57,009 --> 00:17:59,868
nutty. Yeah. And, and then if you can

494
00:17:59,868 --> 00:18:02,807
really find a good bent bet for your

495
00:18:02,807 --> 00:18:03,180
creative

496
00:18:03,776 --> 00:18:05,447
and a way to express yourself in other

497
00:18:05,447 --> 00:18:07,538
ways. Sometimes it seems like that

498
00:18:07,992 --> 00:18:11,691
may, like, stop people from having breakdowns and

499
00:18:12,228 --> 00:18:14,302
having to be manic in some other, you

500
00:18:14,302 --> 00:18:16,375
know, art is a really good way to

501
00:18:16,375 --> 00:18:17,891
to focus your manic ness.

502
00:18:19,247 --> 00:18:19,645
Absolutely.

503
00:18:20,138 --> 00:18:21,332
Did your mom read the book?

504
00:18:22,445 --> 00:18:24,275
No. My mother? I didn't even know where

505
00:18:24,275 --> 00:18:26,184
my mother was when the book came out

506
00:18:26,184 --> 00:18:26,954
because she had

507
00:18:27,949 --> 00:18:29,142
I kind of had

508
00:18:30,574 --> 00:18:32,483
periodically, I would take, like, a break from

509
00:18:32,483 --> 00:18:34,567
her and just sort of, like, let disappeared,

510
00:18:34,885 --> 00:18:37,036
and she had been in manic phase and

511
00:18:37,036 --> 00:18:38,867
was just out of control. And so I

512
00:18:38,867 --> 00:18:40,381
hadn't talked to her in about 5 years.

513
00:18:40,540 --> 00:18:42,451
And when the book came up out,

514
00:18:43,104 --> 00:18:45,019
the publisher asked me to track her down

515
00:18:45,019 --> 00:18:47,275
just to, you know, see if she would

516
00:18:47,413 --> 00:18:49,249
sue us because I wrote about her or

517
00:18:49,249 --> 00:18:50,606
just, you know, what she might do.

518
00:18:51,419 --> 00:18:52,774
And so I did have to find her

519
00:18:52,774 --> 00:18:54,290
and it was a little trickier I had

520
00:18:54,290 --> 00:18:56,124
to go to the social security office and

521
00:18:56,124 --> 00:18:58,278
give them her social security number, and then

522
00:18:58,278 --> 00:19:00,830
they forwarded a letter. And she was in

523
00:19:00,830 --> 00:19:03,794
a skilled nursing facility, And she's still there,

524
00:19:04,033 --> 00:19:04,693
and she's

525
00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:05,570
pretty

526
00:19:06,106 --> 00:19:08,019
much in the state of dementia I'd say

527
00:19:08,019 --> 00:19:10,345
at this point. So I could probably read

528
00:19:10,345 --> 00:19:12,020
her the whole story and I doubt she'd

529
00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:15,209
recognize recognized that this was about her. Does

530
00:19:15,209 --> 00:19:16,804
she recognized you at this point? Because I

531
00:19:16,804 --> 00:19:18,734
know I've toward the end. She she she

532
00:19:18,734 --> 00:19:20,115
knew you were, but

533
00:19:20,494 --> 00:19:21,695
in the end of the book, when you

534
00:19:21,695 --> 00:19:23,855
went to see her. Yeah. She did... She

535
00:19:23,855 --> 00:19:26,174
knew who I was during that visit. And

536
00:19:26,174 --> 00:19:26,674
then

537
00:19:27,069 --> 00:19:28,346
excuse me. I did go back a couple

538
00:19:28,346 --> 00:19:30,343
of times with my with my son with

539
00:19:30,343 --> 00:19:32,679
her grandson who's 21 now. And

540
00:19:33,057 --> 00:19:35,851
with my husband. And by the last time,

541
00:19:36,011 --> 00:19:37,621
she said she didn't know who I was.

542
00:19:37,860 --> 00:19:39,930
And and then she... I said I'm Karen

543
00:19:39,930 --> 00:19:41,842
and your daughter and she said, oh, yes.

544
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,709
I remember Karen and the girl, but, she

545
00:19:44,709 --> 00:19:46,873
was killed by her squad in the police

546
00:19:46,873 --> 00:19:49,816
department. So... Yeah. So currently, she in her

547
00:19:49,816 --> 00:19:52,202
mind, my squad had shot me for some

548
00:19:52,202 --> 00:19:52,521
reason.

549
00:19:53,253 --> 00:19:54,312
Well, that's interesting.

550
00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:58,043
Yeah. You a, pretty, yeah. Pretty dramatic way

551
00:19:58,043 --> 00:19:59,001
to go. Yeah.

552
00:20:00,678 --> 00:20:03,424
Wow. So used spoke about the

553
00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:05,468
that sort of stuff is genetic, I know

554
00:20:05,468 --> 00:20:07,058
that for me, when I

555
00:20:07,932 --> 00:20:10,397
when I was hitting my early twenties, I

556
00:20:10,397 --> 00:20:11,374
started getting very

557
00:20:11,924 --> 00:20:14,402
concerned if I got depressed or anything like

558
00:20:14,402 --> 00:20:16,399
that I thought, oh, god, And My am

559
00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:18,098
I... If I got my mother's

560
00:20:18,557 --> 00:20:19,436
issues. And

561
00:20:20,315 --> 00:20:22,109
That's your my brother by Mueller.

562
00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:24,329
Manic depressive and

563
00:20:25,049 --> 00:20:25,549
Did,

564
00:20:26,569 --> 00:20:27,529
and, you know.

565
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:29,450
Yeah. Fun stuff.

566
00:20:30,170 --> 00:20:32,103
Yeah. But stuff And I think They're not

567
00:20:32,103 --> 00:20:34,421
well medicated back then. Now. She's well medicated

568
00:20:34,421 --> 00:20:36,339
and we're, you know, we're fine, But, yeah.

569
00:20:37,538 --> 00:20:38,576
Yeah. I fine enough.

570
00:20:39,375 --> 00:20:39,535
Yeah.

571
00:20:40,269 --> 00:20:42,424
Bipolar It's just the old fashioned term for

572
00:20:42,424 --> 00:20:42,823
it. I think,

573
00:20:43,701 --> 00:20:45,856
or or bipolar is now. The the normal

574
00:20:45,856 --> 00:20:47,611
temperature term for manic depression. Okay. That's what

575
00:20:47,611 --> 00:20:49,539
they called her back so I know. Okay.

576
00:20:49,857 --> 00:20:52,326
So then yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She would

577
00:20:52,326 --> 00:20:54,476
have fits of of depression that kept her

578
00:20:54,476 --> 00:20:56,466
in bed. And if there were things that

579
00:20:56,466 --> 00:20:58,709
you would said about how she would... Your

580
00:20:58,709 --> 00:20:59,527
mom would

581
00:21:01,891 --> 00:21:03,584
behave for certain events

582
00:21:04,294 --> 00:21:05,892
that I found very familiar.

583
00:21:06,612 --> 00:21:08,210
You know, you were... Like, when you would

584
00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:10,308
be going to an event, and she would

585
00:21:10,687 --> 00:21:13,505
she would make you super upset and

586
00:21:14,295 --> 00:21:16,284
Okay. All that very familiar.

587
00:21:16,761 --> 00:21:17,079
Yeah.

588
00:21:17,954 --> 00:21:19,704
You could pretty much predict that if there

589
00:21:19,704 --> 00:21:21,650
was a big event coming up, like a

590
00:21:21,865 --> 00:21:22,841
graduation or

591
00:21:23,215 --> 00:21:26,073
a wedding or, you know, fast 70. We

592
00:21:26,073 --> 00:21:28,455
we had to... Something like that. She would...

593
00:21:29,170 --> 00:21:31,196
She could create the manic

594
00:21:32,529 --> 00:21:34,066
episodes in her own body

595
00:21:34,442 --> 00:21:37,550
by drinking. So sometimes she would... Some sometimes

596
00:21:37,550 --> 00:21:39,395
she need to really drink to set it

597
00:21:39,395 --> 00:21:42,577
off. But if if she was upset enough,

598
00:21:42,736 --> 00:21:45,123
she would just start drinking for maybe 2

599
00:21:45,123 --> 00:21:47,527
days heavily, and then by the third day,

600
00:21:47,767 --> 00:21:49,682
her eyes have changed, and she was in

601
00:21:49,682 --> 00:21:50,821
a full blown manic

602
00:21:51,837 --> 00:21:54,312
episode, and she didn't drink anymore. She just

603
00:21:54,312 --> 00:21:55,051
would be

604
00:21:56,162 --> 00:21:59,591
flying high on natural chemicals. I don't even

605
00:21:59,591 --> 00:22:02,085
know what exactly kind of diet that

606
00:22:03,021 --> 00:22:05,985
she had because no doctor precise that goofy

607
00:22:05,985 --> 00:22:07,734
doctor on the ship when when she was

608
00:22:07,734 --> 00:22:09,006
thrown in the brake that time.

609
00:22:09,721 --> 00:22:10,993
He was the only 1 who gave me

610
00:22:10,993 --> 00:22:14,093
a diagnosis, and he believed she was manic

611
00:22:14,093 --> 00:22:16,893
depressive with overt tons of paranoid schizophrenia ass.

612
00:22:17,051 --> 00:22:18,722
So when she was in the brake, this

613
00:22:18,722 --> 00:22:21,848
doctor, I... She disappeared on the ship for

614
00:22:22,303 --> 00:22:24,229
a long time, and I know I knew

615
00:22:24,229 --> 00:22:25,827
that she was getting ready to have a

616
00:22:25,827 --> 00:22:26,327
manic

617
00:22:27,026 --> 00:22:29,104
episode because of the eye color thing. And

618
00:22:29,264 --> 00:22:30,942
I went back to our cabin and,

619
00:22:32,061 --> 00:22:34,549
at some point, this doctor the ship knocked

620
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:36,218
on the cabin door and told me that

621
00:22:36,218 --> 00:22:38,522
my mother was in the brake, which... Old

622
00:22:38,522 --> 00:22:40,588
are were you? At that point. I think

623
00:22:40,747 --> 00:22:41,119
I was

624
00:22:41,718 --> 00:22:44,030
I'm trying to remember Was either 12 or

625
00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:44,748
almost 13.

626
00:22:45,784 --> 00:22:46,183
And

627
00:22:47,379 --> 00:22:49,213
yeah. And I would remember thinking, oh, my

628
00:22:49,213 --> 00:22:51,220
god, the b. I didn't ago that this

629
00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:52,652
was a cruise ship. It's like, what is

630
00:22:52,652 --> 00:22:54,640
this a pirate ship. There's a break. I

631
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,231
don't even... I didn't even know they had

632
00:22:56,231 --> 00:22:58,878
those things but Yeah. And so that was

633
00:22:58,878 --> 00:22:59,997
an adventure that,

634
00:23:01,115 --> 00:23:02,335
you know, was very

635
00:23:03,033 --> 00:23:05,830
distressing because they pretty much just let me

636
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:08,017
stay in cabin and go about

637
00:23:08,552 --> 00:23:10,064
normal cruise ship business.

638
00:23:10,541 --> 00:23:12,451
And you're a child, that's the difference. I

639
00:23:12,451 --> 00:23:13,725
mean, it's an in this day and age.

640
00:23:13,884 --> 00:23:16,047
If that were to happen. They would I

641
00:23:16,047 --> 00:23:17,717
mean, I'm sure some sort of child protective

642
00:23:17,717 --> 00:23:19,387
service would be brought in from somewhere to.

643
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:22,568
Absolutely. It was such a different time. I

644
00:23:22,568 --> 00:23:25,056
mean, it was only the sixties and seventies.

645
00:23:25,764 --> 00:23:28,002
But and it... Which doesn't seem like ancient

646
00:23:28,002 --> 00:23:30,240
times, but so many things were so different

647
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,717
there. It was some, you know, children, like,

648
00:23:33,196 --> 00:23:35,767
especially on the English ships. You could drink

649
00:23:35,767 --> 00:23:37,602
nobody would stop you if you were you

650
00:23:37,602 --> 00:23:38,957
know, you could walk to the bar, and

651
00:23:38,957 --> 00:23:40,313
that's the way it wasn't an England too.

652
00:23:40,871 --> 00:23:42,945
And and I I tell people things that

653
00:23:42,945 --> 00:23:44,794
would happen on the cruise ships because she

654
00:23:44,794 --> 00:23:46,468
were taking on these ships a lot, and

655
00:23:46,468 --> 00:23:48,382
nobody can believe it, Like, the the women.

656
00:23:48,541 --> 00:23:49,976
I've talked to people who work on ships.

657
00:23:50,215 --> 00:23:52,846
Now and I say said 1 woman. Do

658
00:23:52,846 --> 00:23:54,930
they still do burial at sea, and she

659
00:23:54,930 --> 00:23:56,600
looked at me like I was insane, but

660
00:23:56,759 --> 00:24:00,019
I remember seeing many burial at sea when

661
00:24:00,019 --> 00:24:01,848
we were crossing the Atlantic, and that was

662
00:24:01,848 --> 00:24:03,335
just normal. People actually

663
00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:05,839
who love the ocean and they would just

664
00:24:05,839 --> 00:24:07,509
travel on ships all the time, and their

665
00:24:07,509 --> 00:24:09,179
dream was to be buried and sea. So...

666
00:24:09,418 --> 00:24:11,486
Yeah. And now that's, like, are you kidding

667
00:24:11,486 --> 00:24:11,700
me

668
00:24:12,377 --> 00:24:14,209
Ecological, I don't think they're down with that

669
00:24:14,209 --> 00:24:14,926
anymore. No.

670
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,352
I lost your video. I can't see you

671
00:24:18,352 --> 00:24:18,512
now.

672
00:24:19,244 --> 00:24:21,479
Oh, let me see. Oh, Hurry am. Okay.

673
00:24:22,516 --> 00:24:24,910
So, you mentioned a second ago about how,

674
00:24:25,070 --> 00:24:26,666
you know, we're... That you have friends who

675
00:24:26,666 --> 00:24:29,077
are working change the the voice of, of,

676
00:24:30,036 --> 00:24:33,311
mental illness. And I I too... I I

677
00:24:33,311 --> 00:24:35,242
find that, of course, it's... I about this

678
00:24:35,242 --> 00:24:37,310
all the time on my various podcast that

679
00:24:37,867 --> 00:24:38,526
it's certainly

680
00:24:39,219 --> 00:24:41,740
We we we don't help people

681
00:24:42,178 --> 00:24:44,732
that need help and, you know, growing up

682
00:24:44,732 --> 00:24:45,392
in that

683
00:24:45,769 --> 00:24:47,525
situation, you have to be the parent.

684
00:24:48,562 --> 00:24:49,382
But you also

685
00:24:49,854 --> 00:24:52,483
you see the humanity behind the crazy,

686
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,192
You you know. I mean, deep down, you

687
00:24:55,192 --> 00:24:58,309
love your mother. That's... Yeah. It's very apparent

688
00:24:58,309 --> 00:25:00,689
throughout the throughout the story. And I'm glad

689
00:25:00,689 --> 00:25:02,300
that up the Absolutely.

690
00:25:03,070 --> 00:25:03,387
Absolutely.

691
00:25:03,942 --> 00:25:05,875
All. You know, I definitely did not want

692
00:25:05,875 --> 00:25:07,394
it to be... As I said before a

693
00:25:07,394 --> 00:25:09,014
victim story like, oh

694
00:25:09,315 --> 00:25:09,794
poor me.

695
00:25:10,595 --> 00:25:12,595
I I know that whatever happened to my

696
00:25:12,595 --> 00:25:14,681
mother had be a much worse than what

697
00:25:14,681 --> 00:25:16,829
happened to me. At some point, I think,

698
00:25:18,022 --> 00:25:19,295
I I know she grew up with a

699
00:25:19,295 --> 00:25:20,806
mother who told her She didn't want her.

700
00:25:21,204 --> 00:25:23,150
And that had have been hugely.

701
00:25:23,682 --> 00:25:24,341
I got

702
00:25:24,715 --> 00:25:26,860
traumatic for, I think. Did she ever acknowledged

703
00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:28,766
that she had mental your mother ever not

704
00:25:28,766 --> 00:25:29,640
she had mental illness?

705
00:25:30,276 --> 00:25:32,593
I think she knew she was but, you

706
00:25:32,593 --> 00:25:33,806
know, she wasn't really

707
00:25:35,288 --> 00:25:38,301
normal whatever that is, But she would describe

708
00:25:38,301 --> 00:25:41,100
it as her a breakdowns. She never really

709
00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:43,253
said, oh, yes. I need, you know, I

710
00:25:43,253 --> 00:25:45,805
need medication or whatever she hated the medications

711
00:25:45,805 --> 00:25:47,559
they would put her on. So she pretty

712
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:48,915
much refused to take anything.

713
00:25:49,488 --> 00:25:51,743
At 1 point she was on thor, and

714
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:52,859
that's heavy

715
00:25:53,236 --> 00:25:54,592
oh, it's very happy and,

716
00:25:56,267 --> 00:25:58,362
I wrote it and as david about

717
00:25:59,629 --> 00:26:01,699
trying to o d on her thor, which

718
00:26:01,699 --> 00:26:03,451
is not part of the book, but it's

719
00:26:03,451 --> 00:26:05,680
in shades of blue, which is a book

720
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,661
about depression. And and trying to bring out

721
00:26:09,672 --> 00:26:12,772
stories about people who survived suicide attempts, and

722
00:26:12,772 --> 00:26:15,158
things like that. Mh. And when when I

723
00:26:15,158 --> 00:26:16,055
took thor,

724
00:26:17,164 --> 00:26:19,002
it took a while for. I they they...

725
00:26:19,321 --> 00:26:21,319
I finally told on cell so they made

726
00:26:21,319 --> 00:26:22,518
me throw up and get it out of

727
00:26:22,518 --> 00:26:24,196
my system, but there was enough still in

728
00:26:24,196 --> 00:26:24,936
my system

729
00:26:25,475 --> 00:26:25,715
that,

730
00:26:26,448 --> 00:26:28,198
I got a sense of why she hated

731
00:26:28,198 --> 00:26:30,266
that medication. Yeah. How old are you when

732
00:26:30,266 --> 00:26:30,743
you did that?

733
00:26:31,459 --> 00:26:32,016
I was

734
00:26:32,812 --> 00:26:33,703
04:18.

735
00:26:34,341 --> 00:26:34,501
Okay.

736
00:26:35,298 --> 00:26:36,893
So do you kind of it had enough?

737
00:26:37,053 --> 00:26:37,212
And...

738
00:26:38,249 --> 00:26:39,924
Yeah. And, you know, she was on the

739
00:26:39,924 --> 00:26:42,317
verge of another manic episode. She was... I

740
00:26:42,317 --> 00:26:44,648
could see the beginning of it, I was...

741
00:26:44,888 --> 00:26:46,326
I just reached a point where it's, like,

742
00:26:46,566 --> 00:26:49,523
I cannot survive another 1 of manic episodes.

743
00:26:50,162 --> 00:26:50,662
And

744
00:26:51,521 --> 00:26:52,421
and she

745
00:26:53,290 --> 00:26:55,588
head at that point tried to strangle me

746
00:26:55,588 --> 00:26:57,014
and it was just a... You know, there

747
00:26:57,014 --> 00:26:58,148
was just... It was

748
00:26:58,678 --> 00:27:01,558
things were escalating. The drama was escalating. The

749
00:27:01,558 --> 00:27:02,617
violence was escalating.

750
00:27:03,476 --> 00:27:05,074
And the thing with my life was I

751
00:27:05,074 --> 00:27:07,231
really had nowhere else to go. Yeah. I

752
00:27:07,231 --> 00:27:09,243
was completely dependent on her.

753
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,673
She had... I like, Isolated I herself from

754
00:27:12,673 --> 00:27:14,268
her family who had all been on the

755
00:27:14,268 --> 00:27:16,501
east Coast, and I never really met any

756
00:27:16,501 --> 00:27:18,989
of them except once when she could at

757
00:27:18,989 --> 00:27:19,868
me as a small child.

758
00:27:20,668 --> 00:27:22,446
And, so I didn't really

759
00:27:23,225 --> 00:27:25,543
have anybody to go to except my my

760
00:27:25,543 --> 00:27:28,474
friend's families, and I was too embarrassed, most

761
00:27:28,594 --> 00:27:29,944
the time to really let them know how

762
00:27:29,944 --> 00:27:30,818
bad things that got.

763
00:27:31,771 --> 00:27:32,248
And so,

764
00:27:32,963 --> 00:27:34,551
because I was so dependent on her, I

765
00:27:34,551 --> 00:27:36,617
just... I couldn't think of any way out.

766
00:27:36,776 --> 00:27:39,276
I knew I was 14 I I couldn't

767
00:27:39,491 --> 00:27:41,398
make it out there by my myself. I

768
00:27:41,398 --> 00:27:43,169
had a horrible, horribly

769
00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:46,180
intense sense that I need did to take

770
00:27:46,180 --> 00:27:48,723
care of her. Mh Like this demand in

771
00:27:48,723 --> 00:27:50,472
her either that was part of it too.

772
00:27:51,108 --> 00:27:53,174
God. What a childhood so intense.

773
00:27:53,890 --> 00:27:55,900
Yeah. You know, it was intense and... But,

774
00:27:56,059 --> 00:27:57,420
you know, I know people have had much

775
00:27:57,420 --> 00:27:59,980
worse. Mine was bizarre just, you know, so

776
00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:01,259
many dramatic episodes.

777
00:28:01,994 --> 00:28:04,548
But, the thing that I'm really grateful for

778
00:28:04,548 --> 00:28:07,262
is that that I had no younger siblings.

779
00:28:07,501 --> 00:28:09,417
She did have a few portions when I

780
00:28:09,417 --> 00:28:09,917
was

781
00:28:10,629 --> 00:28:12,217
when I was a child, and I think,

782
00:28:12,376 --> 00:28:14,283
oh, my god, if she'd had those babies,

783
00:28:14,918 --> 00:28:16,825
I would never have been able to get

784
00:28:16,825 --> 00:28:18,890
away from her. Because I would have felt

785
00:28:18,890 --> 00:28:20,892
so responsible to try to save them,

786
00:28:21,607 --> 00:28:23,119
because that's kinda how I roll, you know,

787
00:28:23,278 --> 00:28:25,267
it becomes that I become a cop because,

788
00:28:25,426 --> 00:28:27,176
she really trained me. She needs to be

789
00:28:27,176 --> 00:28:28,304
a enough. That was it,

790
00:28:29,020 --> 00:28:30,372
which she wanted it. She wanted me to

791
00:28:30,372 --> 00:28:32,520
rescue her and take care of her. And

792
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,020
so

793
00:28:33,395 --> 00:28:35,877
I realized I could never do that. Nobody

794
00:28:35,877 --> 00:28:37,390
can say her. No.

795
00:28:38,106 --> 00:28:40,176
Right. Did you did you have to go

796
00:28:40,176 --> 00:28:41,689
not have to? I mean, I I went

797
00:28:41,689 --> 00:28:43,770
3 years of therapy you go through therapy

798
00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:46,387
after? Yeah. Oh, yes. I I chose to,

799
00:28:47,181 --> 00:28:48,633
go through probably

800
00:28:49,085 --> 00:28:50,314
6 years therapy

801
00:28:51,243 --> 00:28:52,990
Yeah. And goodness. You know, so much of

802
00:28:52,990 --> 00:28:55,293
therapy is who your therapist is. Oh. God.

803
00:28:55,610 --> 00:28:55,769
Yes.

804
00:28:56,484 --> 00:28:58,469
And I was fortunate to get an excellent

805
00:28:58,469 --> 00:28:58,969
therapist,

806
00:29:00,076 --> 00:29:01,910
and she helped me a great deal. But,

807
00:29:01,989 --> 00:29:04,221
you know, obviously, I'm not... I didn't get

808
00:29:04,221 --> 00:29:05,975
it waste. Got free. I have had a

809
00:29:05,975 --> 00:29:07,823
great life. I have a great family. Now

810
00:29:07,903 --> 00:29:09,889
I've been married for 27 years. I have

811
00:29:09,889 --> 00:29:12,512
3 children who are all wonderful. Yeah. And...

812
00:29:12,989 --> 00:29:15,475
But I've had my share of Ptsd, and

813
00:29:15,532 --> 00:29:18,037
and in my my third... I guess my

814
00:29:18,174 --> 00:29:20,008
thirties. Yeah. I discovered. I, you know, I

815
00:29:20,008 --> 00:29:22,661
started having panic attacks, not at work, but

816
00:29:23,517 --> 00:29:25,351
I would kinda, like, find a a place

817
00:29:25,351 --> 00:29:27,276
to have having a attack and then, you

818
00:29:27,276 --> 00:29:29,424
know, that wasn't at work. I managed to

819
00:29:29,424 --> 00:29:32,151
always function really well at work. And

820
00:29:33,098 --> 00:29:34,683
And so it's it's still there, you know,

821
00:29:34,762 --> 00:29:37,060
it's it's like you always have... You always

822
00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:38,804
carry that baggage with you. Oh, for sure.

823
00:29:39,042 --> 00:29:40,904
It's always there. I'm absolutely

824
00:29:41,362 --> 00:29:43,517
everybody got something. So... Yeah. It doesn't mean

825
00:29:43,517 --> 00:29:46,070
that your story isn't, you know, uniquely yours

826
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:48,519
and as intense as somebody who maybe

827
00:29:49,829 --> 00:29:52,051
that we always try and make something better

828
00:29:52,051 --> 00:29:52,710
or worse

829
00:29:53,083 --> 00:29:55,463
on someone else's life, but it's horrible to

830
00:29:55,463 --> 00:29:57,942
be in it. You know, every everyone's horror

831
00:29:57,942 --> 00:30:01,075
story is their horror story. So yeah. Yeah

832
00:30:01,533 --> 00:30:04,166
And... Yeah. I definitely honor your horror story,

833
00:30:04,325 --> 00:30:05,460
and know that it had...

834
00:30:06,180 --> 00:30:07,779
I know I'd had some good times too

835
00:30:07,779 --> 00:30:08,759
for sure, But

836
00:30:09,299 --> 00:30:12,854
and, obviously, it created an environment where you

837
00:30:13,233 --> 00:30:16,429
were able to probably be a really excellent

838
00:30:16,429 --> 00:30:17,169
place officer.

839
00:30:18,028 --> 00:30:19,546
Well, thank you. I hope I was. You

840
00:30:19,546 --> 00:30:21,480
know, I... There are things I I did

841
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,799
that I wish in retrospect I get done

842
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:26,599
differently, but that's a book for another day.

843
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,440
Yeah. Well, we all have gotten in our

844
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,533
lives I things. For sure. Talk Okay. So

845
00:30:30,533 --> 00:30:32,768
talk about this. Now you... I love the

846
00:30:32,768 --> 00:30:34,525
story of you looking out the the part

847
00:30:34,525 --> 00:30:35,882
in the book where you're looking out the

848
00:30:35,882 --> 00:30:37,318
window and you see yourself driving?

849
00:30:38,276 --> 00:30:41,654
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That was such AII

850
00:30:41,789 --> 00:30:44,488
kind of downplayed the spiritual aspect of that

851
00:30:44,488 --> 00:30:46,235
because I didn't want people to think to

852
00:30:46,235 --> 00:30:47,681
complete when he to have you're written the

853
00:30:47,681 --> 00:30:49,275
book and a lot of people really put

854
00:30:49,275 --> 00:30:51,049
off by anything that seems

855
00:30:51,744 --> 00:30:53,258
spiritual or whatever. Well, I was love to

856
00:30:53,258 --> 00:30:55,106
hear the loo 2 version because I'm I'm

857
00:30:55,106 --> 00:30:57,500
a loo chance. So... Good. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

858
00:30:57,739 --> 00:30:59,016
I'll have to be rewrite the buckets of

859
00:30:59,096 --> 00:30:59,574
Loo to.

860
00:31:00,691 --> 00:31:02,933
I'm pretty good it's scary. But, I was...

861
00:31:03,171 --> 00:31:04,999
I... At the time, I was just... I

862
00:31:04,999 --> 00:31:06,611
had just graduated from

863
00:31:07,065 --> 00:31:09,528
Uc Berkeley because I had been planning to

864
00:31:09,528 --> 00:31:11,770
be a which was really what my mother

865
00:31:11,770 --> 00:31:13,203
wanted me to be, and that was what

866
00:31:13,203 --> 00:31:16,010
she thought she was training me for. And

867
00:31:16,147 --> 00:31:16,545
I was,

868
00:31:17,978 --> 00:31:19,545
serving when while I was in college

869
00:31:20,379 --> 00:31:22,049
I was under underage, but nobody knew that

870
00:31:22,128 --> 00:31:23,162
And I worked in the bar as the

871
00:31:23,162 --> 00:31:26,205
cocktail Waitress and on my day off by

872
00:31:26,341 --> 00:31:27,239
was at Vas

873
00:31:27,787 --> 00:31:30,093
in North Beach, which is... Ironically where my

874
00:31:30,093 --> 00:31:32,319
parents met, but I had never been in

875
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:33,830
the bar before and for some reason,

876
00:31:34,466 --> 00:31:34,784
my,

877
00:31:35,420 --> 00:31:37,144
best friend and I were just wandering around

878
00:31:37,264 --> 00:31:38,855
North Beach and we decided to go into

879
00:31:38,935 --> 00:31:41,401
Ba, and we were upstairs and we ordered

880
00:31:41,401 --> 00:31:43,867
irish coffee and we were looking out onto

881
00:31:43,867 --> 00:31:45,154
to this avenue,

882
00:31:46,028 --> 00:31:47,084
and I saw

883
00:31:48,173 --> 00:31:48,673
this

884
00:31:49,047 --> 00:31:52,542
black and white police card driving up Columbus.

885
00:31:53,193 --> 00:31:55,500
And this woman was driving the car, and

886
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:57,488
then she had a male partner, and her

887
00:31:57,488 --> 00:31:59,557
hair was down, and it was long and

888
00:31:59,557 --> 00:32:01,166
dark and maybe, like my areas.

889
00:32:01,724 --> 00:32:03,319
And I looked at her and I thought

890
00:32:03,399 --> 00:32:05,233
I was looking at myself, and I turned

891
00:32:05,233 --> 00:32:07,945
to my friend, and I said, look, I'm

892
00:32:07,945 --> 00:32:08,822
driving this car.

893
00:32:09,460 --> 00:32:11,725
And she looked at just to see

894
00:32:12,258 --> 00:32:13,928
the tail end of the car, and I

895
00:32:13,928 --> 00:32:15,279
turned her and I said, I I think

896
00:32:15,358 --> 00:32:17,289
I'm supposed to be a cop, which

897
00:32:17,837 --> 00:32:19,584
totally bizarre because it was the first time

898
00:32:19,584 --> 00:32:21,250
that thought had ever crossed my mind.

899
00:32:22,997 --> 00:32:25,616
They were just beginning to recruit women as

900
00:32:25,775 --> 00:32:28,095
I said 19 77. Mh. We're the first

901
00:32:28,095 --> 00:32:30,402
ones. I had never even thought women could

902
00:32:30,402 --> 00:32:32,709
be police. And police are in my story

903
00:32:32,709 --> 00:32:34,872
at a lot, which aisle because police in

904
00:32:34,872 --> 00:32:36,462
my life were the ones who came to

905
00:32:36,462 --> 00:32:40,383
rescue me from her. Yeah. Like So I

906
00:32:40,614 --> 00:32:41,513
police as

907
00:32:42,290 --> 00:32:43,269
people who

908
00:32:44,126 --> 00:32:46,361
help you and save you, and and I

909
00:32:46,361 --> 00:32:47,877
wanna be a helper and a saver.

910
00:32:48,435 --> 00:32:48,890
And so

911
00:32:49,486 --> 00:32:51,556
when I look at the the window, I

912
00:32:51,556 --> 00:32:53,147
saw this It was, like, I didn't even

913
00:32:53,147 --> 00:32:54,819
know women could beat cops. And I had...

914
00:32:55,058 --> 00:32:57,464
I think Charlie Angels had like, the first

915
00:32:57,464 --> 00:32:57,964
show

916
00:32:58,265 --> 00:33:00,424
where, you know, we had, like, police women

917
00:33:00,424 --> 00:33:02,505
and these old shows. But those were mostly,

918
00:33:02,664 --> 00:33:05,553
like, they were not really, like, uniformed officers

919
00:33:05,553 --> 00:33:08,025
who were out there. Charlie Angels at the

920
00:33:08,025 --> 00:33:09,800
beginning, at the show, they would show

921
00:33:10,656 --> 00:33:13,142
a Jack smith in her police performance San

922
00:33:13,301 --> 00:33:15,131
Francisco at the shooting range. And I had

923
00:33:15,131 --> 00:33:16,882
seen that and I thought, wow. Can women

924
00:33:16,882 --> 00:33:18,633
do that. But that was as far as

925
00:33:18,633 --> 00:33:20,956
the thought went. When they when I saw

926
00:33:20,956 --> 00:33:23,424
this woman driving this car and thought it

927
00:33:23,424 --> 00:33:25,095
was myself. All of a sudden, it was

928
00:33:25,095 --> 00:33:27,324
like a possibility. I had never even considered

929
00:33:27,324 --> 00:33:29,324
at it. And from that moment on, it

930
00:33:29,324 --> 00:33:31,226
was like, I knew this is what my

931
00:33:31,226 --> 00:33:33,127
destiny went. I was supposed to do this.

932
00:33:33,286 --> 00:33:35,919
So it was very strange. It's incredible I

933
00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:38,476
love that little week from God saying, hey.

934
00:33:39,195 --> 00:33:41,113
Yeah. And and the funny thing was this

935
00:33:41,113 --> 00:33:43,031
woman when I finally figured out who she

936
00:33:43,031 --> 00:33:45,519
was that she wasn't actually and, you know,

937
00:33:45,678 --> 00:33:46,313
I imagined,

938
00:33:47,663 --> 00:33:48,458
hallucinations of myself,

939
00:33:49,649 --> 00:33:51,556
ask flashback or something about.

940
00:33:52,588 --> 00:33:53,859
When once I realized that,

941
00:33:55,623 --> 00:33:56,282
it was

942
00:33:56,896 --> 00:33:59,601
it was so funny because within a few

943
00:33:59,601 --> 00:34:02,481
months, I met her. I met actual woman

944
00:34:02,481 --> 00:34:04,313
and she became my mentor. Mh.

945
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:06,464
Yeah. I was really bummed out in the

946
00:34:06,464 --> 00:34:08,376
book when she... Because she was the 1

947
00:34:08,376 --> 00:34:09,449
that that

948
00:34:09,827 --> 00:34:11,663
at the party, and then she stepped down,

949
00:34:11,823 --> 00:34:13,739
and I was so bummed that she stepped

950
00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:15,814
down. I have to tell you, again, I'm

951
00:34:15,814 --> 00:34:18,860
gonna keep b this book because I laughed.

952
00:34:19,098 --> 00:34:21,803
I cried. I held my breath. It was

953
00:34:21,803 --> 00:34:22,996
is really a good book.

954
00:34:24,110 --> 00:34:24,826
Here. Really.

955
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,760
To hear it good. I wanted it to

956
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,440
be. And I read a lot. I'm a

957
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,679
v reader, and so, you know, it's up

958
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:32,849
against many, many books, and it it definitely

959
00:34:32,849 --> 00:34:34,221
held its own. Very

960
00:34:34,594 --> 00:34:35,307
excellent. Yeah.

961
00:34:36,339 --> 00:34:38,322
So and what... I mean, I've... It made

962
00:34:38,322 --> 00:34:40,360
me wanna, you know, know more about this

963
00:34:40,479 --> 00:34:42,713
story, So... Which is always good especially for

964
00:34:43,032 --> 00:34:44,947
Show. Right? That's what creates more seasons.

965
00:34:45,505 --> 00:34:47,181
Yeah. If I would... You know, that's the

966
00:34:47,181 --> 00:34:48,865
thing I'm opening bring the Tv show will

967
00:34:48,865 --> 00:34:50,613
happen because if there were so many characters

968
00:34:50,772 --> 00:34:52,996
I wanted to develop more, like, people from

969
00:34:52,996 --> 00:34:56,427
the Academy, like, Doughnut and just all of

970
00:34:56,427 --> 00:34:57,856
them. You know, there were just so many

971
00:34:57,856 --> 00:35:00,793
people that were so interesting. Sure. I write

972
00:35:00,793 --> 00:35:02,619
a whole book about each of them. So,

973
00:35:02,699 --> 00:35:04,380
you know, so we'll see what happens but.

974
00:35:04,539 --> 00:35:06,603
You know. Yeah. You spoke about the 1

975
00:35:06,921 --> 00:35:09,938
during the riots, and you you ran... You

976
00:35:09,938 --> 00:35:12,358
were... You got separated from your a group

977
00:35:12,652 --> 00:35:13,288
from your troop,

978
00:35:13,923 --> 00:35:14,083
and,

979
00:35:14,877 --> 00:35:15,377
and

980
00:35:15,751 --> 00:35:18,824
came upon that bar where is it weren't

981
00:35:19,344 --> 00:35:21,442
Is that right? No. Which was the officer

982
00:35:21,501 --> 00:35:23,817
that was running around hitting people with the

983
00:35:23,817 --> 00:35:25,335
baton? Oh, yeah.

984
00:35:25,989 --> 00:35:28,451
And I thought, well, that I mean, here's

985
00:35:28,451 --> 00:35:31,230
a thing. It's there's 2 there's people that

986
00:35:31,230 --> 00:35:32,818
wanna help people in the world there's people

987
00:35:32,818 --> 00:35:34,168
that wanna hurt people in the world and

988
00:35:34,168 --> 00:35:37,434
people who have you know, AAA

989
00:35:37,434 --> 00:35:39,575
complex of I'm a bully and I'm a

990
00:35:39,575 --> 00:35:41,478
horrible for, you know, whatever I wanna... And

991
00:35:41,557 --> 00:35:43,478
I wanna put my power on you, and

992
00:35:43,478 --> 00:35:44,913
the people are like, I wanna help you

993
00:35:44,913 --> 00:35:47,306
and I wanna lift you up. And, of

994
00:35:47,306 --> 00:35:47,545
course,

995
00:35:48,262 --> 00:35:50,575
media now is is at a fever pitch

996
00:35:50,575 --> 00:35:52,423
where we know everything happening in real time,

997
00:35:52,582 --> 00:35:54,273
and there's all these stories about,

998
00:35:55,044 --> 00:35:57,847
I know, police officers being violent towards citizens.

999
00:35:58,459 --> 00:36:00,127
But it bugs me all the...

1000
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:01,849
There's not

1001
00:36:02,287 --> 00:36:04,355
report every day about all the goodness that

1002
00:36:04,355 --> 00:36:06,501
police officers do. You know, I was coming

1003
00:36:06,501 --> 00:36:08,569
over from a concert last night standing on

1004
00:36:08,569 --> 00:36:10,398
the corner had a lovely conversation with the

1005
00:36:10,398 --> 00:36:12,401
police officer who was out there riding his

1006
00:36:12,401 --> 00:36:15,025
ass off in full Regalia on the street

1007
00:36:15,025 --> 00:36:17,569
corner, making sure that drunk dumb people don't

1008
00:36:17,569 --> 00:36:19,318
get hit by cars, you know, when they

1009
00:36:19,318 --> 00:36:21,306
cross the street. Well, thank you for talking.

1010
00:36:21,798 --> 00:36:24,270
Him, because that that really makes our day

1011
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:25,545
when, you know, if you can just treat

1012
00:36:25,545 --> 00:36:28,176
us like humans. But, yeah. You know, if

1013
00:36:28,335 --> 00:36:30,344
I would say the vast majority they're something

1014
00:36:30,344 --> 00:36:31,541
like, 800000

1015
00:36:31,541 --> 00:36:33,216
employees in the United States,

1016
00:36:34,014 --> 00:36:35,769
which is incredible when you think about that

1017
00:36:35,769 --> 00:36:35,929
number.

1018
00:36:36,647 --> 00:36:38,916
I would say the vast majority, probably,

1019
00:36:39,371 --> 00:36:42,712
you know, 750000

1020
00:36:42,712 --> 00:36:45,775
of week are really good people we are

1021
00:36:45,835 --> 00:36:47,675
want to help people and and they were

1022
00:36:47,675 --> 00:36:48,735
drawn to the job

1023
00:36:49,595 --> 00:36:51,755
because they wanted to help their community, make

1024
00:36:51,755 --> 00:36:53,364
a difference for tech people,

1025
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:54,874
things like that.

1026
00:36:55,669 --> 00:36:57,576
But, you know, if if you have, we

1027
00:36:57,576 --> 00:36:59,801
been it's, you know, 1 percent or 2

1028
00:36:59,801 --> 00:37:02,048
percent of those people are running around, and

1029
00:37:02,048 --> 00:37:03,802
they shouldn't be in the job. They're the

1030
00:37:03,802 --> 00:37:05,477
ones who are gonna get the attention. They're

1031
00:37:05,477 --> 00:37:07,151
the ones who are... You know, we're seeing

1032
00:37:07,151 --> 00:37:09,478
the same dozen videos over and over and

1033
00:37:09,478 --> 00:37:09,796
over.

1034
00:37:10,353 --> 00:37:10,853
But

1035
00:37:11,465 --> 00:37:13,215
I try to remind people that there's something

1036
00:37:13,215 --> 00:37:14,668
like 65000000

1037
00:37:15,043 --> 00:37:18,317
interactions between police and civilians every day every

1038
00:37:18,317 --> 00:37:21,018
year, Every you're in America. Yeah. And very

1039
00:37:21,018 --> 00:37:23,164
few of them end up in some sort

1040
00:37:23,164 --> 00:37:24,300
of tragic

1041
00:37:24,930 --> 00:37:26,710
mistake or or horrible

1042
00:37:27,329 --> 00:37:28,930
decision by the cop or things like that.

1043
00:37:29,809 --> 00:37:31,329
Very very few of them. And it's gotta

1044
00:37:31,329 --> 00:37:32,690
be... I mean, speak to that too. It's

1045
00:37:32,690 --> 00:37:35,020
gonna be terrifying. I think for some reason,

1046
00:37:35,259 --> 00:37:38,367
we, as a society, we look at police

1047
00:37:38,367 --> 00:37:40,838
to to police us to, you know, make

1048
00:37:40,838 --> 00:37:41,657
sure things

1049
00:37:41,968 --> 00:37:42,468
are

1050
00:37:43,004 --> 00:37:44,916
functioning re Ryan and the bad guy, you

1051
00:37:44,916 --> 00:37:46,828
know, is is taken away. It's the bad

1052
00:37:46,828 --> 00:37:48,182
guy and the good guys protected.

1053
00:37:48,994 --> 00:37:51,391
But it what a terrifying job? I mean

1054
00:37:51,391 --> 00:37:54,267
my god, You you're risking your life. Every

1055
00:37:54,267 --> 00:37:56,025
single day. You don't know what you're walking

1056
00:37:56,025 --> 00:37:58,033
into? Someone could snap. It could be a

1057
00:37:58,033 --> 00:38:00,264
mentally ill person. It could be, you know,

1058
00:38:00,424 --> 00:38:01,938
a guy who's got a gun on his

1059
00:38:01,938 --> 00:38:03,452
wife, and you have to go in and

1060
00:38:03,452 --> 00:38:06,602
somehow talk a guy down or or whatever

1061
00:38:06,661 --> 00:38:09,139
it is or, you know, a little kids

1062
00:38:09,139 --> 00:38:11,456
being abused by his mother and you have

1063
00:38:11,456 --> 00:38:13,621
that care care balance of if you go

1064
00:38:13,621 --> 00:38:16,242
in there, that could get be worse later

1065
00:38:16,242 --> 00:38:18,069
in the day because you showed up, you

1066
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:20,555
know, like, all this crazy stuff

1067
00:38:21,263 --> 00:38:22,877
I don't know. I don't know how

1068
00:38:23,571 --> 00:38:24,310
police officers

1069
00:38:25,004 --> 00:38:25,504
maintain

1070
00:38:26,119 --> 00:38:28,268
that all. I don't know how you can

1071
00:38:28,268 --> 00:38:30,675
go into every single day. I mean, I'm

1072
00:38:30,675 --> 00:38:33,467
sure the good stuff hopefully outweighs the bad

1073
00:38:33,467 --> 00:38:34,526
stuff. But.

1074
00:38:35,222 --> 00:38:36,751
You know. Yeah. I think it's I'm more

1075
00:38:36,751 --> 00:38:39,373
dangerous. I mean, they say there's 300000000

1076
00:38:39,373 --> 00:38:40,565
guns in America,

1077
00:38:41,121 --> 00:38:43,480
and there's something like 25000

1078
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,780
and gun deaths a year. And we're the

1079
00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:48,292
ones... The cops are the ones who were

1080
00:38:48,292 --> 00:38:50,042
going to all those calls. Most people in

1081
00:38:50,042 --> 00:38:51,670
their normal lives do not

1082
00:38:52,123 --> 00:38:54,981
run into too many murders or things like

1083
00:38:54,981 --> 00:38:56,807
that. We're the ones who getting sent to

1084
00:38:56,807 --> 00:38:58,157
the parts of town that, a lot of

1085
00:38:58,157 --> 00:38:59,628
people in their wanna go to

1086
00:39:00,483 --> 00:39:02,715
where people are killing each other and wanting

1087
00:39:02,715 --> 00:39:04,230
to kill police so wanting to, you know,

1088
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:06,702
and I'm not justifying any of, Of course.

1089
00:39:07,021 --> 00:39:09,186
Things we've seen that are wrong, and those

1090
00:39:09,186 --> 00:39:11,974
cuffs who are making those horrible choices need

1091
00:39:11,974 --> 00:39:13,988
to be taken out of the job and

1092
00:39:14,205 --> 00:39:15,320
sitting first. But

1093
00:39:15,878 --> 00:39:17,644
but, yes, I think there is a lot

1094
00:39:17,644 --> 00:39:19,713
of... You're dealing with people now who have

1095
00:39:19,713 --> 00:39:21,623
a lot of Ptsd cups on the street.

1096
00:39:21,941 --> 00:39:23,612
They've been shot at multiple times.

1097
00:39:25,934 --> 00:39:28,814
And yet still, the vast majority of cops

1098
00:39:28,949 --> 00:39:31,329
retired without ever shooting their gun in the

1099
00:39:31,329 --> 00:39:31,964
line of duty.

1100
00:39:32,678 --> 00:39:34,863
Yeah. We that, I wish those statistics 6

1101
00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:36,512
hit the newspapers every day.

1102
00:39:37,547 --> 00:39:39,059
Yeah. They make it seem as if well,

1103
00:39:39,298 --> 00:39:40,731
and not and part of it also the

1104
00:39:40,731 --> 00:39:44,810
public cease, television shows where cops are constantly

1105
00:39:44,810 --> 00:39:47,204
shooting it out. Mh. Yeah while, you know,

1106
00:39:47,444 --> 00:39:50,078
those things happen every day in America. They

1107
00:39:50,078 --> 00:39:52,646
don't happen to every cup, every day, and

1108
00:39:52,646 --> 00:39:53,545
they don't happen,

1109
00:39:53,923 --> 00:39:56,077
you know, multiple times to the same cotton,

1110
00:39:56,476 --> 00:39:56,875
usually.

1111
00:39:57,832 --> 00:39:58,572
Are a few

1112
00:39:59,043 --> 00:40:01,436
sections, but the vast majority of us never

1113
00:40:01,436 --> 00:40:03,590
get shot and never end up shooting our

1114
00:40:03,590 --> 00:40:05,823
guns at anybody. Did you ever shoot your

1115
00:40:05,823 --> 00:40:08,296
gun? I did not. I do not have

1116
00:40:08,296 --> 00:40:10,402
to shoot line of duty was very fortunate.

1117
00:40:12,049 --> 00:40:14,116
And a lot of that was luck.

1118
00:40:14,832 --> 00:40:15,332
And

1119
00:40:15,945 --> 00:40:17,376
you know, the thing is we see these

1120
00:40:17,376 --> 00:40:17,876
horrible

1121
00:40:18,584 --> 00:40:22,249
videos, but we don't see that cops are

1122
00:40:22,249 --> 00:40:23,705
confronted with armed suspects

1123
00:40:24,798 --> 00:40:25,436
every day.

1124
00:40:26,727 --> 00:40:28,503
And don't use

1125
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,390
excessive force quite frequently are able to to

1126
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:35,341
ab evade it without shooting anybody. And yet,

1127
00:40:35,580 --> 00:40:37,817
the assumption it as well. Yeah. They didn't

1128
00:40:37,817 --> 00:40:39,483
shoot him because he was white or they

1129
00:40:39,483 --> 00:40:41,149
didn't shoot this person. Or They shot this

1130
00:40:41,149 --> 00:40:43,227
person because he was wet. And it's not

1131
00:40:43,227 --> 00:40:45,610
the case. So it's very much a case

1132
00:40:45,610 --> 00:40:45,849
of,

1133
00:40:46,802 --> 00:40:48,573
of, different cops just

1134
00:40:49,742 --> 00:40:52,533
react differently. And it's not... It's a lot

1135
00:40:52,533 --> 00:40:54,358
to do with the the fear factor. You

1136
00:40:54,358 --> 00:40:56,182
know, I think that we're not seeing the

1137
00:40:56,182 --> 00:40:58,219
whole picture. We don't know. She was this

1138
00:40:58,339 --> 00:41:00,172
up shot at with his partner killed a

1139
00:41:00,172 --> 00:41:01,367
year ago, you know, we don't know the

1140
00:41:01,367 --> 00:41:03,280
whole story. Of course with me is brain,

1141
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,045
you know. Do police officers get Pt ptsd

1142
00:41:06,244 --> 00:41:06,744
d

1143
00:41:07,279 --> 00:41:09,748
evaluations every year? No. They don't. And and,

1144
00:41:09,907 --> 00:41:12,616
you know, I I don't think departments really

1145
00:41:12,616 --> 00:41:14,925
have the resources to do that. And that's

1146
00:41:14,925 --> 00:41:16,849
the the bummer of this whole thing is

1147
00:41:16,849 --> 00:41:18,837
that so much of this is about training.

1148
00:41:19,791 --> 00:41:22,018
You know, people if you you react the

1149
00:41:22,018 --> 00:41:24,898
way that you train and and small departments

1150
00:41:24,898 --> 00:41:26,492
just don't have the funds and many of

1151
00:41:26,492 --> 00:41:28,563
the big departments don't have the funds to

1152
00:41:28,563 --> 00:41:31,447
really put you through the repetition just training

1153
00:41:31,447 --> 00:41:33,521
of, okay, responding to a gun call. How

1154
00:41:33,521 --> 00:41:34,956
are you gonna do this? Okay. This is

1155
00:41:34,956 --> 00:41:37,132
now we're adding this and, you know, different

1156
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:40,402
stimulation kind of things that really help people

1157
00:41:41,193 --> 00:41:43,825
prepare. And and every department has some training.

1158
00:41:44,064 --> 00:41:46,318
I'm not saying there's no training, but

1159
00:41:46,775 --> 00:41:49,487
the amount of training that you need to

1160
00:41:49,487 --> 00:41:52,135
make the right choice, most of the time

1161
00:41:52,135 --> 00:41:55,329
is is phenomenal. Of course. Yeah. And it

1162
00:41:55,329 --> 00:41:57,324
should be a yearly thing, I think. But,

1163
00:41:57,404 --> 00:41:58,682
you know, I I think about that too.

1164
00:41:59,001 --> 00:42:01,648
Maybe if we bought 1 last bomb for

1165
00:42:01,648 --> 00:42:05,077
the military, and took that 10000000 dollars and

1166
00:42:05,077 --> 00:42:06,215
put it into our,

1167
00:42:06,672 --> 00:42:09,559
you know, our protect and serve fund That

1168
00:42:09,559 --> 00:42:10,440
might be a good idea.

1169
00:42:11,079 --> 00:42:13,320
Well, yeah. If it's a very complex problem.

1170
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,199
And of course, the whole open carry second

1171
00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:17,660
amendment thing is creating

1172
00:42:18,134 --> 00:42:19,972
a huge thing, and and I do think

1173
00:42:19,972 --> 00:42:22,630
there's going to be a change. I think

1174
00:42:22,769 --> 00:42:25,246
the younger generation at some point is not

1175
00:42:25,246 --> 00:42:26,065
gonna tolerate

1176
00:42:27,411 --> 00:42:29,474
the number of guns we have, and I'm

1177
00:42:29,474 --> 00:42:30,983
not saying nobody should have a gun in

1178
00:42:31,141 --> 00:42:33,894
America. I'm not... I'm not advocating that everybody's

1179
00:42:35,048 --> 00:42:37,832
why obviously taken away, but certainly, there is

1180
00:42:37,832 --> 00:42:40,298
no reason why people should have Arc 15

1181
00:42:40,298 --> 00:42:42,536
and... Right. All kind of stuff. It's getting

1182
00:42:42,536 --> 00:42:43,013
ridiculous.

1183
00:42:43,410 --> 00:42:46,902
Yeah. Yeah. The... Your your neighborhood shouldn't be

1184
00:42:46,902 --> 00:42:47,640
a Dmz.

1185
00:42:48,490 --> 00:42:50,729
No. Shouldn't be. And I don't really know

1186
00:42:50,729 --> 00:42:53,831
how... I I don't understand how cops can

1187
00:42:53,831 --> 00:42:55,286
be expected to

1188
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:58,060
differentiate between the so called good guys with

1189
00:42:58,060 --> 00:42:59,648
the guns and the bad guys with the

1190
00:42:59,648 --> 00:43:01,975
guns. I mean, we just saw that sixth

1191
00:43:02,110 --> 00:43:04,492
situation in Dallas where where the cops 5

1192
00:43:04,492 --> 00:43:06,813
cops were killed and during the course of

1193
00:43:06,813 --> 00:43:09,844
that, there was a man who somewhat fit

1194
00:43:09,844 --> 00:43:12,018
the description of the guy who was shooting

1195
00:43:12,157 --> 00:43:15,028
wearing Camouflage and carrying an Ar 15. But

1196
00:43:15,028 --> 00:43:17,032
and they... And the media actually posted him

1197
00:43:17,032 --> 00:43:19,492
as being the suspect. I know. Yeah. And

1198
00:43:19,492 --> 00:43:21,554
he wasn't the suspect, and so I don't

1199
00:43:21,554 --> 00:43:23,874
know how you can really have a society

1200
00:43:23,874 --> 00:43:25,733
where people are running around in camouflage

1201
00:43:26,271 --> 00:43:28,669
with an A ar 15 as civilians,

1202
00:43:29,148 --> 00:43:30,906
and we're to assume that they are not

1203
00:43:30,906 --> 00:43:32,425
gonna cause us harm. Yeah.

1204
00:43:33,716 --> 00:43:35,710
It was that that whole thing was such

1205
00:43:35,710 --> 00:43:38,341
was just so sad that the fact,

1206
00:43:39,617 --> 00:43:42,025
first of all, the the shooters like I'm

1207
00:43:42,025 --> 00:43:44,184
gonna take out the man, the white man

1208
00:43:44,184 --> 00:43:45,865
or whether are the white place officers, but

1209
00:43:45,945 --> 00:43:47,704
I believe that 3 of the 5 were

1210
00:43:47,704 --> 00:43:49,545
were police officers of color.

1211
00:43:50,265 --> 00:43:53,158
And if not more, And, you know, you

1212
00:43:53,158 --> 00:43:55,715
probably took out some really great guys, buddy.

1213
00:43:56,514 --> 00:43:58,192
Yeah. I, you know, I think... I don't

1214
00:43:58,192 --> 00:43:59,870
remember. I think they were mostly light, but,

1215
00:44:00,030 --> 00:44:00,270
you know,

1216
00:44:01,003 --> 00:44:02,917
in any in case, yeah, They were decent

1217
00:44:02,917 --> 00:44:04,512
people. They were good guys who were out

1218
00:44:04,512 --> 00:44:06,027
there trying to do the right thing and

1219
00:44:06,107 --> 00:44:08,420
Right. And so he's basically doing the opposite

1220
00:44:08,420 --> 00:44:10,349
of whatever it was his chris in mind

1221
00:44:10,349 --> 00:44:11,466
was trying to accomplish.

1222
00:44:11,945 --> 00:44:13,860
And, yeah. It is... It's insane. And is.

1223
00:44:14,099 --> 00:44:15,456
Yeah. Violence does not...

1224
00:44:16,174 --> 00:44:17,610
It just... Oh, macy's so great.

1225
00:44:18,343 --> 00:44:19,697
I probably is crazy.

1226
00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:24,477
Okay. So let's get back to to your

1227
00:44:24,477 --> 00:44:25,831
story and so we've got on that little

1228
00:44:25,831 --> 00:44:27,559
tangent, but it's the fascinating tangent

1229
00:44:28,797 --> 00:44:29,297
so

1230
00:44:29,755 --> 00:44:32,229
you see yourself in the car driving on

1231
00:44:32,229 --> 00:44:32,628
the street,

1232
00:44:33,266 --> 00:44:35,820
and you think this is for me.

1233
00:44:36,474 --> 00:44:38,867
Now, first of all, let's just acknowledge that

1234
00:44:38,867 --> 00:44:42,000
that's brave as hell considering your a female

1235
00:44:42,218 --> 00:44:43,987
in the era that you were and where

1236
00:44:43,987 --> 00:44:44,487
women

1237
00:44:45,021 --> 00:44:46,932
were not police officers really. Like you said,

1238
00:44:47,012 --> 00:44:47,967
there was maybe a hundred.

1239
00:44:48,525 --> 00:44:48,843
And

1240
00:44:49,878 --> 00:44:51,963
I mean, that has been so scary. And

1241
00:44:51,963 --> 00:44:53,478
to know that your mom is gonna freak

1242
00:44:53,478 --> 00:44:55,470
out and you were, you know Look, yeah.

1243
00:44:55,709 --> 00:44:58,339
My biggest fear was my mother's reaction. Yeah.

1244
00:44:59,376 --> 00:45:01,864
Because It never occurred to me that I

1245
00:45:01,864 --> 00:45:04,657
would get killed or that it was that

1246
00:45:04,657 --> 00:45:05,137
dangerous.

1247
00:45:05,775 --> 00:45:07,313
I was pretty a pretty

1248
00:45:08,818 --> 00:45:11,751
strong feminist then. And that was really the

1249
00:45:11,751 --> 00:45:13,812
era where women were trying to break into

1250
00:45:13,812 --> 00:45:15,160
all of the things they told us we

1251
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,271
couldn't do. Right. The fire department, and

1252
00:45:18,985 --> 00:45:20,812
just every day there was, like, some new

1253
00:45:20,812 --> 00:45:22,344
thing. There was some movie

1254
00:45:22,797 --> 00:45:25,155
shu they're on was in I think about

1255
00:45:25,274 --> 00:45:27,349
the coal miners, you know, where she, like,

1256
00:45:27,588 --> 00:45:30,083
broke to working and the Coal mines, which

1257
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:31,896
My I got to me that's way more

1258
00:45:31,896 --> 00:45:34,459
terrifying than movies. Yeah. I don't know why

1259
00:45:34,459 --> 00:45:35,493
anyone would want to be a cool miner.

1260
00:45:35,732 --> 00:45:37,800
That sounds like a horrible job, but... Yeah.

1261
00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:40,761
I being in undergrad I'm slightly clog before

1262
00:45:40,761 --> 00:45:43,154
but Too. Yeah. I wouldn't like that at

1263
00:45:43,154 --> 00:45:43,313
all.

1264
00:45:44,510 --> 00:45:44,669
So...

1265
00:45:45,547 --> 00:45:46,445
Yeah. So

1266
00:45:46,902 --> 00:45:48,338
it was sort of I had it shipped

1267
00:45:48,338 --> 00:45:50,030
on my shoulder. I was, like, 20, you

1268
00:45:50,030 --> 00:45:51,710
know, you have to be, like, 21 and

1269
00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:52,750
stupid to sign up.

1270
00:45:54,030 --> 00:45:55,630
Think that you're... You know, you'll never be

1271
00:45:55,630 --> 00:45:57,309
killed or you'll hang You're gonna live to

1272
00:45:57,309 --> 00:45:58,829
be a hundred or whatever I was thinking.

1273
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,794
And so I didn't really occur to me,

1274
00:46:01,953 --> 00:46:03,945
And and I kept hearing things like, there

1275
00:46:03,945 --> 00:46:06,654
were so many, articles in the newspaper about

1276
00:46:06,654 --> 00:46:08,907
the new women cups and

1277
00:46:09,538 --> 00:46:12,010
the public being pulled and saying, oh, women

1278
00:46:12,010 --> 00:46:15,940
are too weak into emotional and too coward.

1279
00:46:16,397 --> 00:46:18,311
And so it would kinda, like, pushed me,

1280
00:46:18,391 --> 00:46:20,391
you know, me off It's like, how dare

1281
00:46:20,391 --> 00:46:22,371
you say that, Theater. I'm gonna approve a

1282
00:46:22,371 --> 00:46:24,511
week day, you know? And and so I

1283
00:46:24,511 --> 00:46:25,620
had a little bit of a chip on

1284
00:46:25,620 --> 00:46:28,269
my shoulder. And, I don't... And so that

1285
00:46:28,269 --> 00:46:30,349
might have been what partially what was pushing

1286
00:46:30,349 --> 00:46:30,510
me.

1287
00:46:31,710 --> 00:46:33,710
And then Dublin, talk about Dublin.

1288
00:46:35,565 --> 00:46:37,405
Once you got in and you started doing

1289
00:46:37,405 --> 00:46:38,844
the basic train or what do you call?

1290
00:46:39,005 --> 00:46:41,244
Not basic training? That's military, But what do

1291
00:46:41,244 --> 00:46:42,284
you call it for you guys?

1292
00:46:43,484 --> 00:46:45,738
Is it still basic training? That place academy.

1293
00:46:45,978 --> 00:46:48,055
Yeah. The police academy. So basic of training

1294
00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:49,813
is military. So police Academy.

1295
00:46:50,371 --> 00:46:51,650
You go into Police Academy.

1296
00:46:52,384 --> 00:46:52,884
And

1297
00:46:53,742 --> 00:46:55,041
this Dublin character,

1298
00:46:55,739 --> 00:46:56,698
oh, like, gosh.

1299
00:46:57,577 --> 00:47:00,145
Yeah. It was essentially deaf lynn was a

1300
00:47:00,145 --> 00:47:02,136
a sort of a a mirror of my

1301
00:47:02,136 --> 00:47:02,454
mother.

1302
00:47:03,091 --> 00:47:05,161
So, you know, he was, like, this sort

1303
00:47:05,161 --> 00:47:05,661
of

1304
00:47:06,038 --> 00:47:07,551
bull. He was a bully, and I was

1305
00:47:07,551 --> 00:47:09,878
used dealing with the bully because my mother

1306
00:47:09,878 --> 00:47:11,075
could be quite a bully. Yeah.

1307
00:47:12,351 --> 00:47:14,425
And so, yeah. He was

1308
00:47:14,903 --> 00:47:17,536
my nemesis in the Police Academy. He really

1309
00:47:17,536 --> 00:47:19,006
was determined to

1310
00:47:19,462 --> 00:47:21,851
to get the women out, and he did

1311
00:47:21,851 --> 00:47:23,841
not like the fact that women were... The

1312
00:47:23,841 --> 00:47:25,593
the city was forced to hire women by

1313
00:47:25,593 --> 00:47:27,679
a consent to created by a a big

1314
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:30,068
legal action that happened a couple of here

1315
00:47:30,068 --> 00:47:31,422
in this in mid seventies.

1316
00:47:31,821 --> 00:47:34,928
And a lot of the older men really

1317
00:47:34,928 --> 00:47:37,012
resisted at. They just did not want the

1318
00:47:37,012 --> 00:47:38,843
women in the department, and he was 1

1319
00:47:38,843 --> 00:47:40,911
of them. So he was getting ready to

1320
00:47:40,911 --> 00:47:43,195
retire, and, I think our cost was his

1321
00:47:43,473 --> 00:47:45,382
class and he was, like, determined to get

1322
00:47:45,382 --> 00:47:46,097
rid of the women.

1323
00:47:47,131 --> 00:47:49,301
Yeah. I was really bummed when your friend

1324
00:47:49,437 --> 00:47:51,107
bagged out at the last minute too.

1325
00:47:51,839 --> 00:47:53,994
Yeah. That was a bummer, and

1326
00:47:54,633 --> 00:47:56,629
you know, that it was the right choice

1327
00:47:56,629 --> 00:47:58,704
for her. I thought it really interesting that

1328
00:47:58,944 --> 00:48:00,381
when you did the way in once you

1329
00:48:00,381 --> 00:48:02,307
were a police off sir, And you you

1330
00:48:02,307 --> 00:48:03,421
had to get the way in with Dublin,

1331
00:48:03,501 --> 00:48:06,148
and he didn't really acknowledge you as in

1332
00:48:06,443 --> 00:48:07,476
as if he didn't even know what it

1333
00:48:07,476 --> 00:48:07,874
was you.

1334
00:48:08,590 --> 00:48:10,260
Yeah. So that was dope... I mean, that

1335
00:48:10,260 --> 00:48:12,103
was the thing you trying to use at

1336
00:48:12,103 --> 00:48:13,773
the end to try to fire me saying,

1337
00:48:14,012 --> 00:48:16,159
I was, like, 3 pounds over the wait

1338
00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:18,863
limit, which was... Absurd because Yeah. Even if

1339
00:48:18,942 --> 00:48:21,422
I had been, Doughnut was, like, 40 hundred

1340
00:48:21,422 --> 00:48:23,173
pounds. I don't know. He was, like, so

1341
00:48:23,173 --> 00:48:24,128
far over the wait limit,

1342
00:48:25,003 --> 00:48:26,992
and yet, he wasn't even being called in

1343
00:48:26,992 --> 00:48:29,060
to be weighed. And here he had made

1344
00:48:29,060 --> 00:48:31,620
this huge thing about the weight limit, and

1345
00:48:31,699 --> 00:48:33,448
I really... I was so close that there

1346
00:48:33,448 --> 00:48:34,878
was no way he could fire me for

1347
00:48:34,878 --> 00:48:35,037
that.

1348
00:48:36,070 --> 00:48:38,393
And yet, you know, here, I just I

1349
00:48:38,393 --> 00:48:40,148
never had been really overweight. I was, like,

1350
00:48:40,387 --> 00:48:42,380
strong, but, you know, it wasn't, like, bad

1351
00:48:42,380 --> 00:48:44,853
or anything. Sure. At this time I... I

1352
00:48:44,853 --> 00:48:46,608
got in... We have to go for... We

1353
00:48:46,608 --> 00:48:48,058
had to go for away and, like, every

1354
00:48:48,058 --> 00:48:50,286
6 months. So, like, 6 months into my

1355
00:48:50,286 --> 00:48:52,993
job. I went for the physical fitness assessment,

1356
00:48:53,152 --> 00:48:55,222
and and he waved me and he just

1357
00:48:55,222 --> 00:48:57,132
wrote my... I lost 10 pounds. I thought

1358
00:48:57,132 --> 00:48:59,455
he would oh, good job. No. You know,

1359
00:48:59,694 --> 00:49:01,843
something that had been so major and obsessive

1360
00:49:01,843 --> 00:49:04,311
for him was really nothing to him. I

1361
00:49:04,311 --> 00:49:05,186
was nothing to him.

1362
00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:07,356
Think it's a really good lesson in life

1363
00:49:07,356 --> 00:49:09,511
in general that, you know, the people who

1364
00:49:09,511 --> 00:49:10,389
are our bullies,

1365
00:49:11,267 --> 00:49:13,103
you know, we could be anyone. And we

1366
00:49:13,103 --> 00:49:14,675
take it personally because it's it's it's an

1367
00:49:14,874 --> 00:49:17,271
attack against us. But in reality, they're... They'll

1368
00:49:17,271 --> 00:49:18,230
they'll pick any target.

1369
00:49:19,428 --> 00:49:21,505
That's because I think being a bully as

1370
00:49:21,505 --> 00:49:22,816
part of being a narcissist.

1371
00:49:23,191 --> 00:49:24,782
Yeah. I agree. That's who we are seeing

1372
00:49:24,782 --> 00:49:25,418
in politics.

1373
00:49:25,896 --> 00:49:27,885
Oh, god. Yes. And

1374
00:49:28,442 --> 00:49:30,271
and you're right. I don't think it matters.

1375
00:49:30,683 --> 00:49:32,610
They don't care who they believe they bully

1376
00:49:32,665 --> 00:49:34,806
everybody that they can. And they think they

1377
00:49:34,806 --> 00:49:37,105
can't get away with. A reaction. They're looking

1378
00:49:37,105 --> 00:49:37,898
for the reaction.

1379
00:49:38,788 --> 00:49:41,103
Yeah. So do you think that being a

1380
00:49:41,103 --> 00:49:41,603
female

1381
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:44,956
in comparison to the male counterparts

1382
00:49:45,733 --> 00:49:46,473
helped you

1383
00:49:47,744 --> 00:49:49,925
be a police officer, maybe give you an

1384
00:49:50,065 --> 00:49:52,565
empathy or an intuition, you know, the feminine

1385
00:49:52,864 --> 00:49:53,764
intuition or,

1386
00:49:54,704 --> 00:49:55,204
toward

1387
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,440
some of your suspects or some of your...

1388
00:49:57,679 --> 00:49:58,659
The things that

1389
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,679
that you had to face? I I do

1390
00:50:01,679 --> 00:50:03,359
think that I don't know if it was

1391
00:50:03,359 --> 00:50:05,610
just me or, you know, being a woman.

1392
00:50:05,770 --> 00:50:07,598
I think they're men who have really good

1393
00:50:07,598 --> 00:50:07,996
intuition too.

1394
00:50:09,825 --> 00:50:11,972
But I think that I did have a

1395
00:50:11,972 --> 00:50:14,730
pretty good intuition, like, for when somebody was

1396
00:50:14,849 --> 00:50:16,838
gonna go off on me. When I when

1397
00:50:16,998 --> 00:50:18,829
I felt, like, whatever I was doing was

1398
00:50:18,829 --> 00:50:20,739
not calming the person down, and they were

1399
00:50:20,739 --> 00:50:23,684
gonna just fight with us. I was pretty

1400
00:50:23,684 --> 00:50:25,848
good at knowing when call for help before

1401
00:50:25,927 --> 00:50:27,143
I needed it. And

1402
00:50:27,838 --> 00:50:29,350
you know, and I didn't need to do

1403
00:50:29,350 --> 00:50:31,601
it that often, but every now and then

1404
00:50:31,658 --> 00:50:33,728
you could just tell that somebody was going

1405
00:50:33,728 --> 00:50:35,831
to cause you fight, and if they were

1406
00:50:36,045 --> 00:50:38,028
much bigger than I was, You know, usually

1407
00:50:38,187 --> 00:50:40,012
I had a partner, but I would just,

1408
00:50:40,170 --> 00:50:42,726
you know, I would get a car rolling.

1409
00:50:42,965 --> 00:50:45,430
So that kind of thing, I think helped

1410
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:45,588
me.

1411
00:50:47,974 --> 00:50:49,405
I... You know, there were times where I

1412
00:50:49,405 --> 00:50:52,042
had no intuition at all, but and and

1413
00:50:52,042 --> 00:50:53,391
would have made a different choice.

1414
00:50:54,184 --> 00:50:56,643
But I did feel like I... For the

1415
00:50:56,643 --> 00:50:57,199
most part,

1416
00:50:58,468 --> 00:51:00,073
I I did a good job everything Think.

1417
00:51:00,233 --> 00:51:00,552
And,

1418
00:51:01,429 --> 00:51:03,343
I don't regret the job at all. I

1419
00:51:03,343 --> 00:51:04,721
loved it. It was really

1420
00:51:05,417 --> 00:51:07,411
what I was meant to do. Yeah. I'm

1421
00:51:07,411 --> 00:51:09,187
just I'm sure the Police academy

1422
00:51:09,659 --> 00:51:11,175
although it was excellent training,

1423
00:51:11,972 --> 00:51:14,046
I'm guessing your mother was the best training,

1424
00:51:14,285 --> 00:51:15,264
you could have possibly

1425
00:51:15,641 --> 00:51:15,801
received.

1426
00:51:16,518 --> 00:51:17,715
She totally was. Yeah.

1427
00:51:18,433 --> 00:51:18,672
Yeah.

1428
00:51:19,882 --> 00:51:21,732
Living with a person like that makes you

1429
00:51:21,947 --> 00:51:25,044
psychic makes use... No know what's happening before

1430
00:51:25,044 --> 00:51:25,521
it happens.

1431
00:51:26,077 --> 00:51:28,062
I think so. I think it's a a

1432
00:51:28,062 --> 00:51:29,746
really like a survival,

1433
00:51:30,620 --> 00:51:31,415
instinct. Mh.

1434
00:51:32,289 --> 00:51:34,356
Small, a term young age. I think when

1435
00:51:34,356 --> 00:51:37,377
you know that you cannot trust the people

1436
00:51:37,377 --> 00:51:37,957
who are

1437
00:51:38,331 --> 00:51:40,257
supposed to be taking care of you. Something

1438
00:51:40,257 --> 00:51:42,408
else kicks in, and I don't know what

1439
00:51:42,408 --> 00:51:43,603
if it's a spiritual,

1440
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,231
you know, some people might think spirit guides,

1441
00:51:46,391 --> 00:51:48,715
some people might think it's just intuition. I

1442
00:51:48,715 --> 00:51:50,386
don't know if but definitely, I felt like

1443
00:51:50,386 --> 00:51:53,489
something was protecting me. Sure. Her a lot

1444
00:51:53,489 --> 00:51:55,893
of my life. And in the street also

1445
00:51:55,893 --> 00:51:56,371
is a cop.

1446
00:51:57,487 --> 00:51:57,806
Did you...

1447
00:51:58,843 --> 00:52:00,300
Did you worry that your children

1448
00:52:00,677 --> 00:52:02,670
were gonna manifest any of this stuff that

1449
00:52:02,670 --> 00:52:04,559
your mom since it is genetic and was

1450
00:52:04,759 --> 00:52:07,568
did she inherit it from a grandparent or

1451
00:52:07,864 --> 00:52:10,116
do you know? I I don't know

1452
00:52:10,730 --> 00:52:12,561
she inherited, from if she did.

1453
00:52:13,929 --> 00:52:14,668
She didn't

1454
00:52:15,202 --> 00:52:17,270
have that. But she didn't speak that much

1455
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:19,259
about her family, so I... It was hard

1456
00:52:19,259 --> 00:52:19,577
to know.

1457
00:52:20,709 --> 00:52:22,947
I did worry when I had kids, but

1458
00:52:23,026 --> 00:52:25,045
I also... In 1 of my other weird

1459
00:52:25,184 --> 00:52:27,043
spiritual moments, when I was 11

1460
00:52:28,141 --> 00:52:30,953
with spirit guide or this voice that it

1461
00:52:30,953 --> 00:52:32,411
comes into my head sometimes

1462
00:52:33,110 --> 00:52:35,027
occasionally. This isn't, like, I have voice is

1463
00:52:35,027 --> 00:52:36,625
talking. No. I know exactly what you mean.

1464
00:52:37,117 --> 00:52:40,538
Yeah. But, on this 1 occasion, this this

1465
00:52:40,538 --> 00:52:42,686
voice told me you're gonna have 2 sons,

1466
00:52:43,004 --> 00:52:43,504
and

1467
00:52:44,369 --> 00:52:46,195
So I I knew that I was part

1468
00:52:46,195 --> 00:52:47,306
of the reason I was on this plan

1469
00:52:47,306 --> 00:52:48,972
planet I was to have these 2 sons.

1470
00:52:49,528 --> 00:52:51,829
And so that made me feel like I

1471
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:54,229
was supposed to do it. And it it

1472
00:52:54,229 --> 00:52:56,377
kind of laid my fears that they might

1473
00:52:56,377 --> 00:52:58,706
end up with her illness, and

1474
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:01,242
I so far, they've been buying. They... I...

1475
00:53:01,481 --> 00:53:03,546
Either 24 and 21 and I don't see

1476
00:53:03,546 --> 00:53:05,850
any signs of my mother's or, you know,

1477
00:53:06,009 --> 00:53:08,807
they're they're happy well adjusted kids. That's great.

1478
00:53:09,125 --> 00:53:10,716
Is your husband was he a police officer

1479
00:53:10,716 --> 00:53:12,863
as well? Or... Was He went

1480
00:53:14,056 --> 00:53:16,139
lieutenant he retired as 10 and there's a

1481
00:53:16,139 --> 00:53:18,366
cop for 34 years. What is that like

1482
00:53:18,366 --> 00:53:20,275
for a a police officer to meet another

1483
00:53:20,275 --> 00:53:22,820
police officer, and I mean, I and fall

1484
00:53:22,820 --> 00:53:23,829
in love? I mean, it's

1485
00:53:24,507 --> 00:53:26,819
Well, I have a strange story because when

1486
00:53:26,899 --> 00:53:28,733
I met him, I actually didn't like him

1487
00:53:28,733 --> 00:53:31,125
that much. He was a rank above me,

1488
00:53:31,603 --> 00:53:34,010
and he was my sort of a supervisor

1489
00:53:34,010 --> 00:53:36,642
in my station, but not my direct supervisor.

1490
00:53:36,802 --> 00:53:38,955
We had several sergeant who were supervisors. But

1491
00:53:38,955 --> 00:53:40,550
he was a new sergeant, and he came

1492
00:53:40,550 --> 00:53:41,050
to

1493
00:53:41,428 --> 00:53:43,517
my station and he was a little bit

1494
00:53:43,517 --> 00:53:45,431
badge heavy, which, you know, when you first

1495
00:53:45,431 --> 00:53:47,266
get promoted, People wanna to do a great

1496
00:53:47,266 --> 00:53:49,898
job, so they're, like, overly zealous. Yeah. And

1497
00:53:50,217 --> 00:53:51,891
And so he had not made a great

1498
00:53:51,891 --> 00:53:54,625
impression on in the beginning. But, and we

1499
00:53:54,625 --> 00:53:56,464
were both seeing other people, and I never

1500
00:53:56,464 --> 00:53:58,244
thought about him as a possible

1501
00:53:58,864 --> 00:54:00,224
person to date or anything.

1502
00:54:01,118 --> 00:54:03,260
But 1 Christmas eve, if I was coming

1503
00:54:03,260 --> 00:54:05,085
out of the station, and I was single,

1504
00:54:05,244 --> 00:54:06,831
and I really had nothing to do and

1505
00:54:06,989 --> 00:54:08,235
I was kind of bummed, you know, chris

1506
00:54:08,354 --> 00:54:09,624
with you, but I've got no to go.

1507
00:54:09,942 --> 00:54:11,554
And I'm leaving work and

1508
00:54:11,927 --> 00:54:13,436
all of a sudden, I see him standing

1509
00:54:13,436 --> 00:54:15,603
on this on the sidewalk and he has

1510
00:54:15,659 --> 00:54:18,687
this nose in this pine branch like wrapped

1511
00:54:18,687 --> 00:54:21,065
in with cello pain thing, and he walks

1512
00:54:21,065 --> 00:54:22,253
over to me and he hands to me.

1513
00:54:22,333 --> 00:54:25,206
He says, Mary Chris miss Karen. And I

1514
00:54:25,206 --> 00:54:27,274
was, like stunned. I didn't... I I never

1515
00:54:27,274 --> 00:54:29,103
thought of him in a romantic way before,

1516
00:54:29,342 --> 00:54:32,340
but here he was. And and then time

1517
00:54:32,459 --> 00:54:34,771
passed, and he didn't ask me out to

1518
00:54:34,771 --> 00:54:36,126
kept thinking out he's gonna ask me out,

1519
00:54:36,286 --> 00:54:38,598
and I was too shy to make conversation

1520
00:54:38,598 --> 00:54:41,402
with him. And finally, it hurts to me.

1521
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,097
Maybe because he's

1522
00:54:43,711 --> 00:54:45,623
my... Like, a rank above me. It was

1523
00:54:45,623 --> 00:54:47,614
right around the Anita hill stuff, and it

1524
00:54:47,614 --> 00:54:48,910
was just becoming

1525
00:54:49,365 --> 00:54:52,661
sexual harassment was just coming into the national

1526
00:54:52,956 --> 00:54:55,736
conversation. Yeah. But maybe he's afraid that I'm

1527
00:54:55,736 --> 00:54:57,563
going make an complaint that he harassed me.

1528
00:54:57,722 --> 00:54:58,094
So

1529
00:54:58,612 --> 00:55:00,203
Yeah. So I wrote my notes saying it'd

1530
00:55:00,203 --> 00:55:02,033
be nice to get together for a a

1531
00:55:02,033 --> 00:55:04,181
coffee or a drink sometime, and and then

1532
00:55:04,181 --> 00:55:05,931
he did call me right away. And it

1533
00:55:05,931 --> 00:55:08,498
turned out my fear my thought about his

1534
00:55:08,498 --> 00:55:10,575
fears split where was exactly correct. In fact

1535
00:55:10,575 --> 00:55:13,211
he still has that no 28 years later.

1536
00:55:14,504 --> 00:55:15,004
Slowly.

1537
00:55:15,541 --> 00:55:16,818
It's very cute. Yeah.

1538
00:55:17,457 --> 00:55:19,154
And I don't know whether he keeps it

1539
00:55:19,293 --> 00:55:21,447
out of being romantic or just in case

1540
00:55:21,527 --> 00:55:22,485
I ever make it complaint.

1541
00:55:25,056 --> 00:55:25,935
That's hilarious.

1542
00:55:26,494 --> 00:55:26,894
Love it.

1543
00:55:27,533 --> 00:55:29,690
So talk about the Tv show real quick.

1544
00:55:29,930 --> 00:55:32,253
You these pitch should I assume and you're

1545
00:55:32,253 --> 00:55:34,083
not yet. Now we're in the process. There's

1546
00:55:34,083 --> 00:55:36,152
a couple in Los Angeles who are are

1547
00:55:36,869 --> 00:55:39,032
writing a pitch and a I pilot and

1548
00:55:39,032 --> 00:55:40,622
then and then we're going to pitch it.

1549
00:55:40,782 --> 00:55:43,565
So... So... Yeah. The fingers crossed get picked

1550
00:55:43,565 --> 00:55:44,463
up by somebody

1551
00:55:45,014 --> 00:55:46,291
I think it would be a great show.

1552
00:55:46,530 --> 00:55:48,046
I mean, it's got all the elements for

1553
00:55:48,046 --> 00:55:50,521
sure. And, you know, America loves police dramas.

1554
00:55:51,318 --> 00:55:52,755
Yeah. And I don't want it to be,

1555
00:55:52,835 --> 00:55:53,728
like, a regular,

1556
00:55:54,127 --> 00:55:56,123
another police procedural kind of thing. I I

1557
00:55:56,123 --> 00:55:57,001
hope that it will be,

1558
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,375
more character based. And, you know, just these

1559
00:56:00,593 --> 00:56:01,572
crazy people

1560
00:56:02,284 --> 00:56:05,462
crazy characters should, you know, words. Well, it's

1561
00:56:05,462 --> 00:56:07,290
funny. There are moments in here that are

1562
00:56:07,290 --> 00:56:08,585
that are really funny

1563
00:56:08,958 --> 00:56:11,599
too. Oh, Okay. And I good I. I

1564
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:13,270
cut I got pretty misty dia when Jim

1565
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:15,180
passed away. I I had a feeling it

1566
00:56:15,180 --> 00:56:17,661
was coming just as you're set up really

1567
00:56:17,661 --> 00:56:19,570
excellent for it, And I just went, oh,

1568
00:56:19,650 --> 00:56:21,320
no. I don't even wanna turn the page.

1569
00:56:22,036 --> 00:56:24,678
And therefore. I know 1 of my lives

1570
00:56:24,678 --> 00:56:25,577
regret, but

1571
00:56:26,512 --> 00:56:28,825
I wasn't able to really do something big

1572
00:56:28,825 --> 00:56:31,057
for him, you know, I... As I got

1573
00:56:31,057 --> 00:56:33,131
older and and made my own money and,

1574
00:56:33,211 --> 00:56:34,980
you know, were things I wanted to do

1575
00:56:34,980 --> 00:56:36,653
to thank him me you now, like, you

1576
00:56:36,653 --> 00:56:38,328
know, take him on a great trip or...

1577
00:56:39,444 --> 00:56:41,676
Yeah. I feel like think. And I really

1578
00:56:41,676 --> 00:56:42,130
like I

1579
00:56:42,889 --> 00:56:45,289
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like he knows. He

1580
00:56:45,289 --> 00:56:47,369
knows you lock him, and I think he

1581
00:56:47,369 --> 00:56:48,650
does, and I think also,

1582
00:56:49,449 --> 00:56:51,304
I'm I'm pretty close to his kids,

1583
00:56:52,261 --> 00:56:55,454
Barb and statement and and I I've tried

1584
00:56:55,454 --> 00:56:56,890
to be a good big sister to them,

1585
00:56:57,050 --> 00:56:59,220
and they've been a great free sibling to

1586
00:56:59,220 --> 00:57:00,820
me. So I figured that's the way to

1587
00:57:00,820 --> 00:57:02,980
pay it forward. Hey. God for Jim too.

1588
00:57:03,220 --> 00:57:05,619
I mean, just reading that, just he took

1589
00:57:05,619 --> 00:57:06,920
about being your angel

1590
00:57:07,390 --> 00:57:10,401
My god. He was amazing. Yes. Yeah. He

1591
00:57:10,401 --> 00:57:11,986
he totally did not have to take me

1592
00:57:11,986 --> 00:57:13,991
in. He was really risking

1593
00:57:14,379 --> 00:57:15,676
a lot and nowadays,

1594
00:57:16,373 --> 00:57:18,925
you might be risking being arrested just for

1595
00:57:18,925 --> 00:57:21,715
doing that, you know, without going through legal

1596
00:57:21,715 --> 00:57:22,114
channels.

1597
00:57:22,832 --> 00:57:24,280
Might if you cannot not get been a

1598
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,184
place to today. I don't know where I

1599
00:57:26,184 --> 00:57:28,724
would ended up. So yeah. Yeah. I was

1600
00:57:28,724 --> 00:57:30,470
a little... The when that you talked about,

1601
00:57:31,105 --> 00:57:33,027
I'm sort of jumping around course. I want

1602
00:57:33,027 --> 00:57:34,782
people to read the book, and, hopefully, I'm

1603
00:57:34,782 --> 00:57:37,733
dropping enough little little biscuits that they'll wanna

1604
00:57:37,733 --> 00:57:38,292
eat it all up,

1605
00:57:39,169 --> 00:57:39,669
that

1606
00:57:40,046 --> 00:57:42,335
the... When you went in, you answered the

1607
00:57:42,692 --> 00:57:44,602
add, which would have been a kinder Obvious

1608
00:57:44,681 --> 00:57:47,546
Craigslist. You answered it ads that you were

1609
00:57:47,546 --> 00:57:49,137
trying your were desperate for money. Right?

1610
00:57:49,708 --> 00:57:52,405
Eat. Right? And this guy was looking for

1611
00:57:52,405 --> 00:57:54,887
models and, you know, I'm stupid. I'm

1612
00:57:56,211 --> 00:57:57,242
15 or whatever I was.

1613
00:57:58,370 --> 00:57:59,326
And fully developed.

1614
00:57:59,963 --> 00:58:02,510
Yeah. Berry developed. I developed at 11. So

1615
00:58:02,670 --> 00:58:05,137
I'd always looked much older. People always assumed

1616
00:58:05,137 --> 00:58:07,710
that was 20. Yeah. From the time I

1617
00:58:07,710 --> 00:58:08,929
was 10 I.

1618
00:58:10,190 --> 00:58:12,750
And, yeah. So I answered this at this

1619
00:58:12,750 --> 00:58:14,530
ad and ended up in a very

1620
00:58:15,003 --> 00:58:18,668
potentially dangerous stupid situation that that pretty much

1621
00:58:18,668 --> 00:58:21,536
only a teenager who's got nobody looking over

1622
00:58:21,536 --> 00:58:24,097
her would have chosen to get into. But

1623
00:58:24,097 --> 00:58:25,869
thank goodness that I got out of it

1624
00:58:26,085 --> 00:58:27,438
alive, You know, and I got out of

1625
00:58:27,438 --> 00:58:28,925
it without doing something

1626
00:58:29,524 --> 00:58:31,522
stupid that I would have granted later. So...

1627
00:58:31,682 --> 00:58:34,979
Yeah. 1 singular walk through a door changes

1628
00:58:35,038 --> 00:58:37,755
a person's life completely. And for some of

1629
00:58:37,755 --> 00:58:40,007
these kids, who are on the street and

1630
00:58:40,007 --> 00:58:40,507
homeless

1631
00:58:41,286 --> 00:58:42,345
and they're hungry

1632
00:58:42,804 --> 00:58:46,489
and scared and desperate that it it makes

1633
00:58:46,489 --> 00:58:48,474
sense that they would turn to that, you

1634
00:58:48,474 --> 00:58:49,587
know? Absolutely.

1635
00:58:50,063 --> 00:58:52,287
Absolutely. And it also makes sense. That in

1636
00:58:52,287 --> 00:58:53,797
order to do it, you would have to

1637
00:58:53,797 --> 00:58:55,878
almost become a drug addict it because such

1638
00:58:55,878 --> 00:58:57,952
a just disgusting sting job and someone who...

1639
00:58:58,111 --> 00:58:59,307
I mean it can be, you know, you're

1640
00:58:59,307 --> 00:59:02,678
just... Yeah. Yeah. I totally get how how

1641
00:59:02,896 --> 00:59:05,704
it all evolves. And, yeah, for most young

1642
00:59:05,704 --> 00:59:08,045
women who have no skills and,

1643
00:59:08,585 --> 00:59:10,664
are out on the streets. Your your choices

1644
00:59:10,664 --> 00:59:12,184
are kinda limited at, and young men too.

1645
00:59:12,424 --> 00:59:15,135
They're on man. Absolutely, you know, on the

1646
00:59:15,135 --> 00:59:16,958
street yeah. It's it's a tough thing. It

1647
00:59:16,958 --> 00:59:18,701
that's a tough thing. But what's something that

1648
00:59:18,701 --> 00:59:20,381
you kept out of the book? For for

1649
00:59:20,381 --> 00:59:22,130
whatever reason. You said that there were some

1650
00:59:22,130 --> 00:59:24,436
things you didn't talk about? Oh, well, you

1651
00:59:24,436 --> 00:59:26,662
know, that the suicide attempt I left out,

1652
00:59:26,901 --> 00:59:28,650
and I I wasn't really sure why I

1653
00:59:28,650 --> 00:59:30,900
was leaving it out of the time. But

1654
00:59:30,900 --> 00:59:32,579
intuitively, I felt like this this is a

1655
00:59:32,579 --> 00:59:34,420
survivor book, and I don't wanna get off

1656
00:59:34,420 --> 00:59:36,039
into this tangent of this

1657
00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:36,660
episode.

1658
00:59:37,314 --> 00:59:38,823
I kinda left it out, and then Mh.

1659
00:59:39,141 --> 00:59:41,524
And Amy Ferris was doing her ant pathology.

1660
00:59:41,842 --> 00:59:44,645
Shades had a blue about all of these

1661
00:59:44,860 --> 00:59:47,500
people who had survived suicide in the point

1662
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:49,980
of the book is it gets better hanging

1663
00:59:49,980 --> 00:59:52,219
in there. I'm so glad I survived. Right.

1664
00:59:53,099 --> 00:59:55,394
Then I was... Then I realized why I

1665
00:59:55,514 --> 00:59:57,512
left that out. And was like, oh, because

1666
00:59:57,512 --> 00:59:59,349
this was coming. And so when I wrote

1667
00:59:59,349 --> 01:00:01,267
that story and and added it to and

1668
01:00:01,267 --> 01:00:03,025
and Amy was kind enough to add it

1669
01:00:03,025 --> 01:00:05,187
to her and la itchy. She's great. I'm

1670
01:00:05,187 --> 01:00:06,934
gonna talk to her on the podcast as

1671
01:00:06,934 --> 01:00:09,953
well. She's scared. I love her post on

1672
01:00:10,112 --> 01:00:11,463
Facebook. She's a fireball.

1673
01:00:11,954 --> 01:00:12,432
Of it.

1674
01:00:13,068 --> 01:00:13,568
She

1675
01:00:14,103 --> 01:00:17,365
so it's inspiring. Yeah. I. Yeah. So, you

1676
01:00:17,365 --> 01:00:19,409
know, for me, the the thing that was

1677
01:00:19,608 --> 01:00:21,751
best about police work was really the Cam.

1678
01:00:21,989 --> 01:00:23,973
I mean, I did... I was drawn to

1679
01:00:23,973 --> 01:00:26,751
it because I I wanted family and in

1680
01:00:26,751 --> 01:00:26,965
my

1681
01:00:27,955 --> 01:00:30,119
imagination. I was now gonna have 2000

1682
01:00:30,650 --> 01:00:33,027
brothers and sisters in blue who would have

1683
01:00:33,027 --> 01:00:35,501
my back, and I'd have their that. And

1684
01:00:35,660 --> 01:00:37,327
I did get a lot of that. In

1685
01:00:37,327 --> 01:00:37,485
fact,

1686
01:00:38,438 --> 01:00:39,787
at the end of my career, I ended

1687
01:00:39,787 --> 01:00:41,795
up getting breast cancer and,

1688
01:00:42,407 --> 01:00:45,045
a lot of my coworkers donated their time,

1689
01:00:45,204 --> 01:00:47,351
their vacation time and you can you can

1690
01:00:47,351 --> 01:00:49,738
donate sick time and vacation did whatever time

1691
01:00:49,738 --> 01:00:51,738
you wanna donate to people who are in

1692
01:00:51,738 --> 01:00:53,800
crisis or whatever. And I was able to

1693
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,466
be off for a really long time, and

1694
01:00:55,466 --> 01:00:57,608
and, ultimately, I decided just not to go

1695
01:00:57,608 --> 01:00:59,686
back. I've retired as I was old enough

1696
01:00:59,686 --> 01:01:02,068
to do that. But I retired before I

1697
01:01:02,068 --> 01:01:03,974
plan to. But, anyway, they they really do

1698
01:01:03,974 --> 01:01:05,427
show up for you when

1699
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,468
when things get bad, and,

1700
01:01:08,119 --> 01:01:10,269
And, you know, it's dysfunctional at this dysfunctional

1701
01:01:10,269 --> 01:01:12,260
fact family too. You have members that you

1702
01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:14,092
don't like and people you hope you don't

1703
01:01:14,092 --> 01:01:16,083
have to work with. But for the most

1704
01:01:16,083 --> 01:01:18,649
part, I found my coworkers to be just

1705
01:01:18,649 --> 01:01:19,149
really

1706
01:01:20,244 --> 01:01:22,478
loving people who take care of each other.

1707
01:01:22,717 --> 01:01:24,711
Yeah. Your first partner and do you stay

1708
01:01:24,711 --> 01:01:25,349
in touch with him?

1709
01:01:26,226 --> 01:01:28,550
Oh, yeah. Very much so I'm I'm some

1710
01:01:28,550 --> 01:01:30,459
of my closest friends are former partners.

1711
01:01:31,016 --> 01:01:33,164
And, the the part... I changed every race.

1712
01:01:33,323 --> 01:01:34,436
So I always have to think twice now.

1713
01:01:34,596 --> 01:01:35,884
Who did I what did Like,

1714
01:01:36,999 --> 01:01:39,469
Nora, whose real name is not Nora. Yeah.

1715
01:01:40,187 --> 01:01:41,780
Still my 1 of my closest friends,

1716
01:01:42,418 --> 01:01:44,182
because I had... So because there were so

1717
01:01:44,182 --> 01:01:45,532
few women in my class, and I ended

1718
01:01:45,532 --> 01:01:46,882
up being the only 1 in my class

1719
01:01:46,882 --> 01:01:47,755
to get out of there.

1720
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:50,692
I ended up not having as many female

1721
01:01:50,692 --> 01:01:52,784
prints department as I would have liked to

1722
01:01:52,784 --> 01:01:52,944
had.

1723
01:01:53,664 --> 01:01:56,784
But I sort of acquired them since since

1724
01:01:56,784 --> 01:01:57,184
retiring,

1725
01:01:57,744 --> 01:02:00,385
Facebook is a wonderful thing. Yeah. Like, yeah.

1726
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:02,074
People that I would just know in past

1727
01:02:02,074 --> 01:02:03,269
thing that I never got a chance to

1728
01:02:03,269 --> 01:02:05,203
work with. I've gotten to know much better

1729
01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:07,492
since since leaving. Yeah.

1730
01:02:08,224 --> 01:02:10,615
What it? Yours is a truly wonderful story

1731
01:02:10,615 --> 01:02:12,369
and it's inspiring. It really is.

1732
01:02:13,086 --> 01:02:15,079
Thank you. Yeah. I can't wait for the

1733
01:02:15,159 --> 01:02:17,876
Tv show. Well thank. You. So thank you

1734
01:02:17,876 --> 01:02:19,698
for reading the book. I really appreciate. Oh,

1735
01:02:19,857 --> 01:02:21,758
I devoured it. I read it very quickly.

1736
01:02:21,996 --> 01:02:24,787
I I very... I wanted it to... I

1737
01:02:24,787 --> 01:02:26,455
wanted to know more, which I was is

1738
01:02:26,455 --> 01:02:28,203
good considering I was gonna be interviewing you.

1739
01:02:28,362 --> 01:02:31,460
And I'm... There's always a million questions. But

1740
01:02:32,429 --> 01:02:34,349
Yeah. I mean, I will definitely... I'll post

1741
01:02:34,349 --> 01:02:36,750
a link so that people can can get

1742
01:02:36,750 --> 01:02:38,429
to the books so they too can read

1743
01:02:38,429 --> 01:02:38,590
it.

1744
01:02:39,389 --> 01:02:42,436
It's excellent. Yeah. And you're excellent, and thank

1745
01:02:42,436 --> 01:02:43,473
you for your service.

1746
01:02:43,952 --> 01:02:45,467
Right. Back at you. Thank you.

1747
01:02:47,381 --> 01:02:49,215
It was really a pleasure talking to you.

1748
01:02:49,788 --> 01:02:51,298
A pleasure talking you to you, and thanks

1749
01:02:51,298 --> 01:02:53,126
for having me on. Yeah. And please keep

1750
01:02:53,126 --> 01:02:54,796
in touch when the show gets picked up

1751
01:02:54,796 --> 01:02:56,306
and anyone wanna have be on and talk

1752
01:02:56,306 --> 01:02:58,213
about the show. But that's a that's a

1753
01:02:58,213 --> 01:02:59,340
process that sell them,

1754
01:03:00,132 --> 01:03:02,114
you know, and, actually, before we hang up,

1755
01:03:02,351 --> 01:03:02,985
I'd love to ask,

1756
01:03:03,778 --> 01:03:05,308
was it hard to get somebody

1757
01:03:05,838 --> 01:03:08,159
to to take you on as a memoir.

1758
01:03:08,477 --> 01:03:08,716
I mean,

1759
01:03:09,511 --> 01:03:12,637
you know, you Oh, yeah. Actually, I I

1760
01:03:12,852 --> 01:03:15,135
started out trying to get an agent, and

1761
01:03:15,255 --> 01:03:17,572
I sent, query letters out to all of

1762
01:03:17,572 --> 01:03:19,329
these agents, but I I had a list

1763
01:03:19,329 --> 01:03:20,528
of different memoir,

1764
01:03:21,167 --> 01:03:24,059
agents. And I... 1 of my friends well,

1765
01:03:24,218 --> 01:03:27,275
in my friend group was Christine Bro, who

1766
01:03:27,654 --> 01:03:28,134
I knew,

1767
01:03:29,332 --> 01:03:31,903
had some connections in the publishing business but

1768
01:03:31,983 --> 01:03:33,813
I didn't really know what she was doing.

1769
01:03:34,052 --> 01:03:35,007
And I just sent her letter her saying,

1770
01:03:35,166 --> 01:03:36,837
hey, Christine, I'm looking for an agent, and

1771
01:03:36,917 --> 01:03:37,952
I'm not having a whole lot of left.

1772
01:03:38,270 --> 01:03:40,418
Do you know anyone. And she replied and

1773
01:03:40,418 --> 01:03:41,945
she's said, oh, a matter of fact I

1774
01:03:41,945 --> 01:03:44,728
just started my own publishing business. May I

1775
01:03:44,728 --> 01:03:46,318
read your book, and she was the 1

1776
01:03:46,318 --> 01:03:49,101
who decided to publish the book. So she's

1777
01:03:49,101 --> 01:03:51,264
justin... Yeah. I was really lucky. She and

1778
01:03:51,264 --> 01:03:53,019
and I love her. She's a great woman

1779
01:03:53,019 --> 01:03:55,354
and so she had just started this Andy

1780
01:03:55,572 --> 01:03:56,849
grass, nothing, but the truth,

1781
01:03:58,206 --> 01:04:00,603
publications then she was mostly focusing on women's

1782
01:04:00,603 --> 01:04:03,167
stories because she felt like they weren't always

1783
01:04:03,223 --> 01:04:05,365
getting as much exposure as some other stories.

1784
01:04:05,683 --> 01:04:07,921
Yeah. And I are you are you getting

1785
01:04:07,921 --> 01:04:09,588
this book out? What when did you write

1786
01:04:09,588 --> 01:04:10,461
this? What year was it?

1787
01:04:11,335 --> 01:04:13,240
20 14. Oh, so it's only been out

1788
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:13,716
a little while.

1789
01:04:14,368 --> 01:04:16,917
2 years. Yeah. Yeah. So will, hopefully,

1790
01:04:17,395 --> 01:04:19,864
it will catch on, like, wildfire and people

1791
01:04:19,864 --> 01:04:20,502
will keep reading it.

1792
01:04:21,233 --> 01:04:23,144
Thank you. That's very sweet of you. Yeah.

1793
01:04:23,462 --> 01:04:24,736
Well, thank you so much.

1794
01:04:25,373 --> 01:04:28,477
My pleasure. Yeah. And then kiwi posted, please.

1795
01:04:29,129 --> 01:04:30,639
K. Yeah. Have a great day.

1796
01:04:31,434 --> 01:04:31,672
Bye.