Hey Humans has going
susan ruth here.
Yeah.
This episode really stoked out. I say that
every time, and every time I'm just blown
away by the cool people I get to
talk to.
In this episode, I I speak with Zach
Sc,
he is the founder of Marley Mu. And
within Marley Mu, he also has other programs
positive change prison program,
miracle months, bark and books,
22 and 22, which is the work he
does to bring awareness to Veteran Suicide.
He works with 1 last treats. It's another
organization. So, Zach of Marley mu.
He's rescued over 3000 dogs,
all over the world.
K. What an exceptional human being
he
he said something during our during our conversation.
He said,
that he was the exception to the rule
because
as an addicts,
recovering addicts and alcoholic,
he almost died. He was an end stage
liver failure.
His dog Marley
helped bring him back to life, you know,
by loving him unconditionally and the way only
dogs can do
And
so he now has a fully functioning liver
after quitting,
you know, drinking and drug and and getting
getting his body back into shape, and
Marley was there with him every step of
the way,
and in gratitude for that, he created this
foundation Marley months. And now
he...
It's hard to explain. I mean, he is
the exceptional rule. Yes. Because medically,
he's his body did something that just doesn't
happen. Livers don't just come back from from
that
traumatic of a,
an event and stage liver failure.
And, yet
exception to the rule. And Zach is the
exceptional rule in many cases because he...
His programs
center around
what society would deem un unbelievable.
As far as human beings and animals,
he
I mean,
I don't know. I'm I'm really... I'm kind
of at a lost words. I'm gonna let
the episode speak for itself, but we reference
a lot of things in this episode, and
there are links on hay human podcast dot
com for all of the foundations and all
the different programs that, Zach,
whether he works with them externally or if
they're within his own foundation.
So that's on the hay human podcast
dot com. Also,
please subscribe on itunes Awesome if you subscribe.
It helps get the word out. And
other than that, I think that's that's enough
business. Let's get to it. Okay. Here we
go.
I've been following on Instagram for quite a
while. I I can hey. Remember how I
first learned of all the stuff you do.
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. I I'm... I'm putting a
lot more effort in the I instagram these
days because we wrote the Facebook
freight train for as long as we could
and we were getting... We just had so
much success on Facebook
and our instagram account got hacked somehow.
We have, like, I think we have, like,
7 or 8000 fans. This is probably your
a half ago.
And
so we had to start up another 1,
and and I just kinda of ignored it.
I ignored it, but I didn't like, you
know, it was just so much effort. I
gotta operate most of these things that I
I have some help from more option coordinator,
but, you know, we're we're doing, you know,
10 posts today and we do it it's
just exhausting. It's a lot of stuff, especially
if you kind of being open and trying
to be original. If only dogs had thumbs,
they could do it for you.
When I got pretty funny dogs, like, if
we've done some like, from Balloons perspective or
from Hitch perspective,
I should do that more often... Because they
deserve personalities, like, I know their personality pretty
well, and they they should have more
There should be more banter. Yeah.
Hoo is the 1 that doesn't have a
tongue. Right? Yeah. Yeah. This is... I have
a hoo
I a hoo doll.
Here. I just dropped off each of my
dad's house. But this is a. Nice.
Dean anatomical cracked. If you open its mouth?
It doesn't have any balls. Oh. That that
part's correct.
And
you can open up the mouth, But it's
from shelter pubs dot com. Alright. Check this
this is... Can you see balloon?
Oh.
0, there's a balloon.
Yeah. It's a balloon that looks just like
a blue then his tongue. See how it
hangs out here. Yeah. Exactly like what it
does with his tongue. Oh my gosh. That's
amazing. His tongue. Where did Bull come from?
Believe came from
the Mojave air shelter.
Okay. Which is a area of Obscure animal
shelter,
on the Body Airport in Current County, which
is the middle of Nowhere.
And he bit and I'm a patrol officer
and he bit,
another person
after he got out. So he
kind of multiple
difficult.
Yeah. That's kind of your specialty though. Right?
Is una adaptable dogs?
Yeah.
So bull, Brazilian mask and then this is
Maggie.
An Italian Mas.
And she comes from from El dad el
Guard. I'm not unsure if you know what
he. He's up. Pretty famous dog trap.
I don't know who that is. What do
you mean by dog trap?
He goes and catches his dogs that are
that are, like, on the run that don't
know how to be dogs on man that
are have been
Some of them are feral, some of them
are are just,
kind of on the land and we're in
trouble or sick where Yeah. Some of them
are
are imprisoned in different places. Some of them
all kinds of different stories. Some of them
are just really scared
when they need they they're they've
experienced a fight fight flight scenario and the
plea they've flown,
they they are in full shutdown, you know,
freight mode. Yeah. They're just like, sc, you
know, to stay alive and he goes out
and drops something and
set them to rescues like us. Oh so
I had to tell you So clearly, I
I've been following your work for a long
time, and I think it's incredible, but
you... There was there was a video that
you posted
And when I heard this, I record a
little snippet I'll play it for you. When
I heard this, I was like, oh, I
got to have him hey, human because the
whole point of a human. I'm trying to
connect
people
because I... You... Like, I'm I'm gonna play
the thing first. And you said... For a
3 legged. That's pretty impressive. And
show that any of these dogs can
do anything.
Them them labels he's a pickle. He's black.
He's got 3 legs.
Really mean nothing any of us are capable
of anything at any time.
And,
we stereotype. Let me judge. Let mean pre
judge.
We're doing ourselves at a disservice.
Amen. I mean, I heard that Was, like,
oh, my god. Exactly.
Yep. I wanna be... You know, I really
I really hope to, take the opportunity to
post and speak for my heart more often.
You know, I'm a I'm a
introvert. So I I really don't like being
on camera.
Don't like taking videos.
I do it because I have to, I
went to 1 health to make this
organization success.
So it's just like being in in meetings,
you know, Of and I'm an addict alcoholic
and recovery and my my meetings. I still
get nervous every time I share. Still get
nervous when or need people.
So
a lot of times I don't remember saying
those things. It's it's what I feel, and
it's it's inside of me.
But, you know, sometimes I'll get in a
comfortable
kind of groove, and I I can speak,
stream of consciousness and freely in and it
all makes sense.
So
just... I know your story because I... You
know, I've been following it. But just further
people listening who haven't heard the story in
a nutshell
throw it at it. Well, if you heard
do you wanna talk about that statement anymore.
I mean there's a lot. I do. I
do because I think it speaks to that
statement. I mean, you you were in a
a place where you almost died
and felt pretty worthless. You you've said in
the past. And I think
pretty much if you throw a rock at
humanity right now. You're gonna hit a person
that feels that way, You know?
And we just... We spend all this time
making each other feel shitty
and
you know what I mean? If it's, like,
through you're giving all this love to these
beautiful animals who, like for me, my dog
passed away in January.
Still
horrible, but it is what it is, and
he taught me so much about love. And
what it means to really
love. I'm unconditionally purely.
Yeah. I I thought it was a a
lot of interesting you brought that up because
it... I I have to remind myself of
it every day. Think we kind of live
in a culture that spent so much time
reminding us that we're supposed to hate 1
another that we're supposed to not get 1
1 another. And that we're supposed to think
certain things of 1 another. And, you know,
I remember being a kid,
that my dad always told me the story
and
I came
I came over practice,
and
and I told my dad about this kid.
Was on our team, and he was playing
third. And he basically stole my position.
And he's was playing third base. I know
Was playing left field.
And... But all I kept talking about was
is how good this kid was and how
great he was gonna make our team.
And then my dad didn't see until Than
the weekend that this kid was black.
So he always telling me that story because,
you know, I was very competitive kid, and
you know, I cared greatly about sports and
about how I was doing, but
in that instance, I didn't give a shit
what color this kid was or though you're
taking my position because I was... I kept
thinking about how because we live from Most
beach is a very small city. So we
got... We had a very competitive baseball team.
And if if we have, like, that 1
little,
you know, factor, the x factor we could
go really far, which we ended up doing.
And
and he said as reminds me of that
story, and that's how I felt playing sports
I've ever felony any division, I've ever following
in pre judge people. I just people were
people. And as I've gotten older and as
we've we've become part of,
as I become a part of mainstream culture,
and I'm privy on these things. It's it's
really depressing.
You know, we're we're constantly... There's constantly a
wise driven between us. And,
I see it more than anything in what
we've done to the pickle
And and pit bulls are...
I mean, I cannot believe and it progressive
society, like Colorado for Gran. They a dog
simply because of is muscular structure,
and a bunch of fear that we are
going to outlaw,
a dog also that we basically created this
is something that human beings over 1000 percent
responsible before. It's not the dog 12. It's
not
it's not
It is 1000 percent human beings, humankind,
human powerful for creating for per for training
for breathing,
you know, these dogs, and and also, we've
created, like a scape glove myth about the
dogs so that we don't have to take
responsibility for it. It's so much easier to
come up with the with escape then actually
be responsible for what we've done in that
that that knee jerk kind of a immature
reaction is
they are pit bulls. They are this way.
They are some sort of fixed
concrete way that's they you... They can't be
fixed. There's no hope. You know, they take
the hope out of it. They take the
the love out of it. And and I...
And we have
liberal hippie
literally liberal hippie
reverting back to, like, fascist,
racism. It's bog my mind. Yeah. I just
it's I can't process that. It's weird to
think that, you know, there are people that
breed violence in a dog,
and the dog does something based on what
human does. It's like the gun thing or
people say, oh, well, Guns don't kill people
people kill people. Will people train the pip
to be fighters,
but I've meant lovely pip that are sweet
as we can be. People are dick.
Pip have a...
Just like any dog has an ability, you
know,
German shepherd are protection dogs and
then cattle dogs can herd Cattle and
sheep dogs hurt sheep and p, protect herd
and and massive guard fences and and hip
bull's flight. Mean, that's what we... That's what
human beings created couples to do is be
good at fighting.
And amongst a lot of other things. But
they have that ability in then... What it
doesn't mean that that's their
default frequency
pip and that's what
That's where we have to understand dog psychology.
It's when we have to take the time
to understand dogs psychology. We take a lot
of time to understand, you know, in child
in in human psychology,
take, but we then just answer more files
and apply all of those ideals to
dogs, and we don't even give them the
respect to that, we treat them like children,
like mentally
deficient children,
where we just come at them with a
high pitched voice and,
you know, a really sympathetic tone, which does
nothing but ex zoo
weakness, which is not something dogs respond well
too. So just the whole way we approach
dogs, I think in general is is is
inaccurate. Is is is unhealthy.
But when you... When when a person goes
out an 11 says, something like that. Some
people hear this guy is telling me not
to let my dog.
That's not at all I'm saying. I'm just...
I... I'm trying to have people better understand
their dogs so that they can love them
better. And that's so they can take their
people to a dog park. And so that
they can take their pickle, let you know,
on the strand for a walk, and they'll
have to be so tense and not have
to be so
so worried and nervous
fear controls everything in this world so much
of this will not everything. We we combat
it with love, but not often enough. And
and right now, we're in a period of
time where fear is
is unfortunately plaguing our society in in aspects,
including how we get with dogs.
You know, and then printed pip in particular,
you know,
there's always been a scape going. And you
throughout the humankind, there's always been scape. You
know, in, like, the
the eighties it was a the do main,
and then it was the Ra.
You know, those were the terrible bad dogs.
Right? And then now it's good football. Yeah.
So who knows, but it'll be there. You
know. It'll be the Cane Cor in in
20 20 years ago. Did people try to
outlaw
Rot?
Did they do that? I didn't think that
that went that far with Rot?
Oh, I don't know. I just know I
just remember I I remember
viewing Rot And don't... That's the bad dog.
Hell House.
Very bad dogs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I
have... Like, Marley is a wrong 1 pit.
I have notch as a pit bull hex
bull.
Bag is a cane course so. But believe
as AII
have all these bad dogs.
And they all get along. Right??
And they all get along just fine.
Yeah. They're all good. You're the alpha. You're
their alpha.
Right? You're the lead dog.
I mean, sure a circuit Great. You know,
they're there there's a degree for... They have
to listen me, and and I have to
maintain, do my best to maintain
calm confidence, you know, or else they're,
you know, they're they're gonna take matters into
their own hands and and, Jo you for
position and and orient themselves accordingly,
if I don't want that to happen. And
if I don't want the natural course of
things to play out with dogs, which is
which can be sometimes if they're having some
sort of they're trying to establish their dominance.
Then, yeah. I mean, I I need to
that's why walking dogs is so powerful.
Walking dogs is. It's such a...
It can be a meditation every time you
do it If you take time to center
yourself
think about where you are
and adjust yourself accordingly.
Because if you go and walk and you
and your pissed
irritable
discontent, hungry,
angry, whatever, it will it will chat through
the lease, and you're you're vibe that you're
giving enough is gonna affect the dog and
you're gonna have a terrible time. You know,
notch, for instance is a a very
powerful he's a hundred someone pound that that
we got from a pointing situation in.
He... If I'm not centered,
then he's just gonna pull the whole time.
He's gonna go after chip wrong gonna do
whatever.
But if I'm center, he sits right on
my side and I dropped the leash,
and he's does not leave my side and
and we crews. And I don't have to
hold the leash. But the the difference is
is so pal.
It's it's funny. And Caesar you always thought
about that. Something that... The other thing that
people like think is some sort of like,
who. So We've got,
you know,
bullshit jumbo, but it really is true view.
If there's proper intention behind your commands what
you're trying to accomplish rather than anger. Yeah.
You Mike Mike, my dog use a
chihuahua Docks Jack Russell mix, and he was
a rescue
and came out of a weird situation, and
I got him when he was got 7
months old.
And it's funny. I had him for, you
know, 10 years, and he was with me
constant
companion with me. And Sure. I mean, we
went on road trips. We flew together. We
went everywhere. He went with me every every
everything.
And people would always say, oh, he's so
mellow. He's so chill. I'm like, ask that
mellow and Chill, You know, dogs will be,
like their people.
If you're
drugs.
Yeah
I'm drag him real good. So the people
you were
you were drawn to because they're the sort
of the throw away dog everyone's. Yeah.
It was kind of a, you know, Marley
my my dog was a... Is a pickle.
He's a rot pip and.
He was my first... Like, he in tug
was 1 my 2
original dogs. You look at my dad's house
and like, the retiree.
My dad's not retired yet, but that's where
the the retired dogs gonna go to drive
and drink wine and watch Tv.
And,
yeah. There's was just something so special about
that dog. And and he wasn't malicious at
all, But wherever Taking people with flinch and
then pulled their kids up and. You know.
But and even what happened when I started
adding dogs my pack was Marley...
If there was any sort of per participation,
and any me sort of with the energy,
you know, flare like this, he would react
and bring it back down
blow. He wouldn't fight.
He would, I remember watching it barrel into
2 dogs that were fighting 2 big dogs.
And, yes. So there'd be this, you know
2 dogs or me sniffing each other out,
and there'd be something that would set them
off. And Marley would blog Russian. And he
basically
hon each dog until they got back in
line and we're were mellow. Wow. And I
just... I love that about him and he
was just that the cons
peace
He just wanted things to be mellow and
chill,
and he's just so good with kids and
so good with people. And and, yeah. I
mean, there there are
Marley is your quintessential American chelsea dog. He
looks like
75 percent of the dogs in the shelter.
He's a short haired
multi color pit,
you,
75 80 pounds.
And, you, as heaviest is probably 90. But
Yeah. You know and and and people don't
take a chance on those dogs, you know?
And and
yeah. Even more so in recovery, you know,
doc dogs are a lot
shelter dogs are a lot like people in
recovery.
You know, they've kind of been cast aside.
They're at a at a particular stage of
hopelessness,
and they need something very, very special to
to get them out of it. And and
then they also need rules,
boundary
limitations, affection,
and
you know, exercise and guidance, you know all
this... All the things,
shelter dogs need,
in order to thrive as dogs as as
companions has the same things that addicts and
alcoholic people in recovery need
You know. So that's why I related so
much to him. We kinda just grew together.
And
and but just... I and like you said
about your dog taught me so much about
about unconditional love, and and just being cool
with things. I... You know, I have a,
I had a long memory when it came
to keeping some resentment and
being pitiful. I I felt pitiful often. I
told sorry for myself. You know, because I
felt sorry that I hated myself so much,
and III
saw my dogs and my dogs. 100 percent
didn't have any myself. And... Issues. Yeah. You
look fall in the morning, be,
yeah
just a pit what is the black pit.
Mister the black pitt,
you know,
not I, I had the deck act against
me.
Know, he call for any reasons why the
day should suck. He was every day was
gonna be red,
and or he was gonna map whatever.
You know, Either way, was his solid day.
But, you know, if he convinced me to
to take him on go do some time
then he done an extra special day and
yeah. I know. You just told me... And
you told me Love myself,
because I had very difficult time doing that.
I don't know. If you wanna segue when
into my story. I can start talking about
that. Yeah. I feel like I talked too
much. No. It's great.
That's the whole point of a podcast.
Conversation.
Yeah. I suppose So I just know why
don't wanna dominate it. I I would like
you to dominate it.
So, yeah, I got diagnosed with with end
stage liver disease
and
in the
late winter early spring of
2008.
So my liver failed, and well, a lot
of things started happening to me, my started
started to get real big.
Started to bleed out of both ends,
started to turn yellow,
and
I didn't stop drinking. I started I drank
more as matter fact. And I just ignored
it as long as possible until.
I got having get checked in into the
hospital for long term
care because I was you know, I was
dying liver failure. G... Very reverse. You said
that you could see yourself
getting like that where you just throw us
stage like, well, I'm already here. Might as
well just kinda keep going?
Alright. You know what I mean? I was
I just... Yeah. Yeah. Didn't care face it.
Well, I couldn't face it. I went to
the hospital. Alright. Sorry. Went to the doctor
they taken blood, and my doctor sent to
me
he sent me down. He looks at my
and my my blood test is me. It
looks like all the main immunization.
You need to go to the hospital.
And I know what you talking about?
You're very sick, and you need to go
to hospital. And as just looked at him
and I like,
You know, Maybe I was just... Because... I
have real drunk last night. Maybe that's why.
Like, you sure that I pretty hard.
No. These are blood blood tests.
Not something that would've have been from, you
know, 1 drone. You're... Every 1 of your
numbers is elevated.
And, you're failure
At.
And I got better and going out to
my dad, and and I'd be using the
car.
I told them, you know, just gonna come
back on on the extended Pm.
And
and, you, they she'll only drink with
with dinner. I didn't call anything about my
liver. I like I said something about my
kidneys.
I don't know. I don't remember. But I...
I couldn't face it. I just had this
overwhelming
fear of on facing life sober.
And that's what happened when you're physically addicted.
I gone through of withdrawals going before, and
it's the worst thing you can imagine. So
once you've gotta taste the physical
withdraws from novel, you just don't wanna ever
do it again. And I couldn't imagine, you
know, there was just no... Had no I
get any. I had... I could not be
myself without alcohol. There was just no b.
Without alcohol the drugs, You know, III didn't
know how to be...
I hadn't been myself in so long. It
was just
whatever I thought that the intense fear start
to bubble up.
I I drank. Not the only thing that
kept it suppressed, you know, if I didn't
drink then then it got to surface. And
and and
that was a base... Basically, like, operating at
level of panic attack or all times I
handle that. Yeah.
So
yeah. I went to the hospital. They kept
me there for
almost 2 months.
A sicker
and I got addicted to
penny medicine
the hospital. And then finally, my family just
broke out of hospital, and I got a...
Like, they got me an appointment at Cedar
Sinai, which is 1 of the 7 hospitals
that does Liver transplant.
I got an interview with Comprehensive Transplant program,
doctor Tran Tran, then she
admitted me to the program.
Which
basically exists to keep people who are in
liver failure alive,
through different you know, through
check ups through,
medication management,
through other means by which because mostly people
with hepatitis c is a viral condition.
Acute alcoholic hepatitis is different.
And
and need just she she just said, go
home and and wait,
you know, stay close to an emergency room
and and try to get your 6 months
sober because you need to deliver for transplant.
Only thing that's gonna help you. So I
was gonna save your life. I think I
had a 85 percent chance dying within 30
days.
We're not a liver transplant. So I mean,
I was I'm morally ill. Mh.
And then I... You know, I I went
home and that were terrible. I had to
go through a pay withdrawal. And I went
to hospital bunch times I I'm was dope
sick, and it was all fucking awful thing.
Were you not drinking at that place?
No. No. I was just better. I couldn't
get bed.
I was just shitting myself and vomiting blood
and it was terrible.
And,
yeah. I started to get a little bit
better. I started to walk my dogs. I
1 day, finally, my dogs just every morning
look at me, lane. Whatever we gotta do
today, you know, is the your... By the
way, the sexiest
thing on the planet. You look at me
mean, hear the great the greene
here's just so good. And I'm looking at
like don't look at me. You know, don't
look at me,
you know, I'm terrible I'm waffle. I just
have this deep seated itself loading. I'm so
pitiful
and like, constant
constant simple and like...
And
yeah know, I finally kinda bought just gave
in and started walking my dogs and started
journal and started going to meetings all the
time.
Yeah. I had my first... How all time
being in the hospital,
which was terrific. You know I gave us
That was the first thing you gave us
some hope.
And
yeah. Then, I I drank again, like, a
year of month that forgot hospital. I just
started to get a little bit better.
And,
yeah. I don't know what It was. I
wasn't sleeping, and I was still really sick.
I'm was still yellow and
I just shouldn't... I couldn't handle it. You
know, I I couldn't...
I...
People looked at me funny because the way
I loved, and
I wasn't sleeping, and I didn't know how
to be me, and I was scared of
people, places and things, and I
I just didn't know how to to how
to do it. So I drank again I
had to tell my I my dad got
back from Brazil. He was going for 2
days. I found back the spirit set of
keys in the truck,
drove and guy I remember a bottom of
the line,
and then I blacked out, which I don't
ever do, but if I can drink a
lot out on blackout out. Yeah.
Then I woke up 2 days later.
And there was mar wine everywhere. I don't
know how I got it.
And he was gonna be there in, like,
4 hours
and I had to go walk over somebody
got back, and I I told her him
I said we gotta go to hospital.
And he said,
what do you mean? And I said, we
got to the hospital. I drank again,
and he looked up at me, and he
didn't believe me He just was, like, you
know, away left.
And I said we have to go all,
I took my glasses on. I had my
glasses on. And I took my glasses off
and he could see
Gather my eyes were.
And so he knew right then, and and
he just started crying, and he just said,
you killed herself. He killed herself. He he
killed herself. He just got repeating. And
and then he was like fuck you. Not
taking you that hospital. He was like, fuck
you. You wanted to kill yourself. Kill yourself.
Yep.
And
that was the last time I day.
Wow.
And
and and then I kinda of just became
obsessed with trying to get better when obsessed
with
exercising, and
and just walking, I couldn't exercise where I
could just walk and then walking turned into
running and running turned into exercising, and
just trying to eat right and just trying
to survive, you know?
And then I... My numbers is starting to
get slightly better, and I became
healthy enough to
not need a liver transplant anymore.
So,
now I'm still a transplant patient and once
you're in stage once you've
been that sick. Once windshield whoever's that call
them Because you're always
a transplant patient. Because usually, you you die
or you transplant. Yeah. So, you, the exception
tool.
So, yeah. That's where I stand now is
on the on the liver
patient in good standing. Anything happens to me
if I get sick I'm I'm good standing
to receive help and
all those work.
Wow. That's a hell of a story, man.
Yeah.
You must feel like a completely different
person that has this other person
in the, you know?
Gonna be you cut out there for. Oh,
I've said to feel like you know, you're
this other person now, but you have that
person still in you. It's always in you'll
always in you. It's always a part of
you.
But Yeah. You know, that it's quell
and this Yeah. It keeps me relatable. It's
1 thing because I work so many alcoholic
and drug addicts that it that that that
is definitely
always at the surface.
You know, It's always just beneath the surface.
Being able to relate to those feelings, and
and that makes it a lot easier to
work with people who are in recovery when
when you can relate to that feeling.
And you bring the dogs in to help
people... I I know you do the prison
stuff now and,
did you work... So talk about that a
little bit, because that's awesome as well.
Yeah. We have a, an inmate training
and, like, rehabilitation program. It's rehab to the
dogs rehab to the humans.
So explain that. What that means exactly.
We have 10 dogs living at the California
City, pen and cal.
Ted dogs with 26 inmates. The dogs live
there in the pod, pod b 3.
And these are all silent criminals.
Who been most of them have been in
prison for a very long time. And all
of them will get out of prison. So
they're all gonna need jobs eventually. And so
we're trying to them get jobs when they
get out
in the, you know, head services industry, whether
that's the shelter or
doggy Daycare or,
a rescue, whatever walking dogs. People tend out
to mind, and people have found any records
when
dealing with dogs. Or you know, we're we're
more forgiving group of people.
And the dogs that we give them? Are
there because they're not well. I got there
because they're good. They're there because they have
the she.
So the dog is in the humans new
late with could both be little fucked up.
And
which is great and the guys love it.
I mean, we have it's really important because
I identify as matt and they'll alcoholic where
There and a lot of the guys are
there because of
their own diseases and
that's pretty powerful.
And the guys are all mixed in with
a race wise, which is really, really special.
Most these guys don't ever interact with men
of other races, and they do program and
their brothers in our program, which is
special watch.
Everybody's on the same page. Everybody's on the
same level,
and
help on another. And we have our issues,
you know, there's
personalities know, he got 26 felons.
And there's 4 trainers are 4 of us,
Kim and Leah and Lisa,
and Sam has been helping us out too.
So we all go way every Tuesday. And
He's spent many hours there training from the
men have homework they gotta
do their thing and it's just... Great. And
the dogs stay there all the time.
Yep. They live there. Wow. And they're there
for 14 weeks the 4 team week long
program,
Then the dogs go through Canine good citizen
certification,
So which is a very difficult test.
2 inmates take the daughter through the test
5 5 points each. It's a 10 point
test.
And
yeah. It's awesome. It's congratulations Like the best
thing Ever is the coolest thing to be
part of. You've been to, like, I agree
there been doing like a guy dog,
graduation where there's bunch of blind people on
stage getting their their dogs. It's just kinda
like that. It's depressing them because the guys
who leave the dogs that.
Like, we take the talks with us. Oh,
not. I mean, brutal, do you give them
prepared for that?
Oh,
I mean, no.
You know, I don't know how you did.
I would break my hard. I mean jeez.
It was tough.
And then we take 2 weeks off, and
then we go back in with another set.
We started... We start out with demo dogs.
And then we bring in the... They're all
shelter dogs. They're all dogs that come from.
Our
shelters nearby.
Already city shelter all the bakersfield. Do you
have to pardon in the pun vet the
prisoners so that, you know that they aren't
animal users. Yes. Like Can't be animal users
and they can't be raped to,
which actually
they can't eat,
like, women abusers,
which kind of cut down a lot of
the people that we can draw from.
I mean, people at first, people were like,
well, they're not they're not dangerous criminals. Are
they? And they're all almost all of them
are requiring criminals but they're they're great. They're
great. I mean, a lot of them are
proud they've been in there. Since there were
17 for being knuckle heads.
And they've trying to mature a prison, and
they're trying to find an identity. And they
punching it straws about anything to give them
positive,
like, nourishment
like,
nourishment and and our program does that. But.
Need to wash them grab. Know. Yeah.
K. Dog is love.
Yeah But what was the to get you
in the the... Doing the prison thing,
that it just was that a natural from
the rehab thing, a natural
segue? I always wanna do it. I really
always wanna 1 of my best friends Robbie
was in incarcerated for for 12 years.
And he when he got out, he out
that gone from me he operates this
really cool rescue called Free to Live and
sanctuary in Oklahoma City.
And
I fucking love that guy. And it's just
so good. What's happened to him and he's
he's the director of of the rescue, you
know, And, like, It was, like,
3 years after after getting out of prison.
He... He'd worked his way up, you,
become that, and he's a line criminal and
he's from my neighborhood from near where I
grew up,
and,
you know, if we can do that. If
if that something like I can happen with
him, certainly, if we spend all this training
these guys and and and we facilitate them
when they get out.
Like,
I could've have been any of those guys
that are in there. I could any 1
of them. I... I've done plenty of things
in my life. I can land me and
kinda touch for a long time. And
there's just no difference between us, and
And
I mean, that the... Whatever, there are differences
I suppose, but they're negligible.
Yeah
and it's important. I mean, our prison system
is
he's a lot of work. It's so broken.
Mh. It's so so broken. Yeah. So this
is the way we can make a difference,
You know? This is a way that I
can I'm learning a lot. I'm learning a
tremendous amount going in there and and hanging
out with those guys.
Yeah.
How do you... So where do you get
your funds from? How do you do the
fundraiser part? How can people
They just throw money at you?
Great. No. It's all we we do for
great.
I know You do. I know Youtube babe
it's got a constant arm and a leg
to to get food and they...
I just
we just started the prison.
I just finished up, my friend, Kristen
has helped us put together a fundraiser for
the prison
program,
and we need to basically raise at least
a thousand dollars a week because the trainers
are coming from Angeles.
This is 2 hours away from them.
All the supplies, all the food, all that...
I mean, like, 10 dogs gone through poop
bags. When the live inside a prison. So
just the amount of poop bags we go
through for 10 dogs,
like, whatever 3 poops a day,
10 dogs, Wait. They came go outside, I
guess. They have to be... It's in the
prison.
Oh.
Alright. So... But they have to use their
crew bags outside.
They don't have a Hoover scuba in the
years there. Their poop bag.
And
I think it's just easier to to not
have, like, an implement like that, like, a
Super scoop or the actual tool. Yeah. Because
it could be Uses a weapon. Sure.
Soaking can poop.
Yeah.
7 poop. That of our guys are has
food. That's good.
Very well behaved. Yeah. They're they're incredibly respectful
and they're great guys.
You are grown to respect. Know, each and
every world on them.
So, yeah, We need help with that. We
need help. We're trying we're trying to get
into detached. We pen entry as well.
And, you know, 40000 dollars it cost 40000
dollars a year inca, a man in California
State prison. 40000 dollars a year.
And it almost like, 75 percent of them
will end up back in prison within 3
years. 75 percent. To spend... So 40000 dollars
for them course of that guy's life, he's
prison for 40 years or 30 years due
math 30 times 40000. An astronomical amount of
money. If we spend the money on just...
You know, just... With just 1 guy doesn't
re reaffirm.
And just 1 guy doesn't
return back to prison. Yeah. You know, That's
that's worth the program like 10 times over.
So I'm trying to to explain that math
to people because these guys can get jobs
with with the
the skills that we're getting them. And they're
gonna... They're damn good trainers. They are becoming
legitimately good trainers.
They have really tough dogs they're going to
everything from crane training to potty training to
all kinds of obedience. I mean, those dogs
are very well be very well trained when
they get out Do you know it's so
amazing about that too? I feel like that
because of the way dogs are, and here's
the thing that's the miracle of a dog,
gets me a little choked up is that
you can get a dog who has been
treated
so horrific,
so horribly
and
it just wants you to love it.
You know, it's like, it forget. It knows,
you know, that it's evidence it might be
cage or whatever, but it just he wants
is love. And so here are these people
in prison
who probably did not get love, let's be
honest, you know, in a lot of ways
and probably feel pretty shitty about themselves. And
then there's the weakness. Yeah. Yeah. To show
that kind motion. Yeah. And then there's these
dogs now that are, like, well, I'll love
you. You know? Too amazing. Yeah
That's great. And and it sets the stage
for the whole pod is allowed to be
compassionate.
The whole group of guys are allowed to
be compassionate. And even with 1 another
because
you know, because they're being compassionate with the
dogs because they're they're striving to give these.
And they take it dead deadly seriously.
They're not they're not fucking around and they're
they're real. They they really mean it. I
mean, some of them and some of them
enjoy being challenged.
Immensely. You know, they really... They want the
tough dogs. They wanna challenge. They want, you
know, it's really neat. Yeah. I think there
are a lot of very bright people in
prison I mean, bright people tend to get
bored easy, and then they get into trouble.
And then prison the way the system works,
unfortunately, as you know, I'm sure that it
it's it's a money making. Now that prisons
becoming privatized
and,
you know, what is the incentive to let
people get out. First of all, and they
don't treat mental illness. They don't treat addiction.
None of that stuff is really even
dealt with on so many letters
Yeah. The substance of abuse program is is
pretty
inadequate.
And,
vocational programs are pretty inadequate. From what I
know. I don't know a lot. But I
know about the substance abuse programs because because
my sponsor goes in.
Spent time in there. And and they're there.
They're just... You know, it's not something that
is really really focused on. They don't give
them the tools and when they get out,
know they have...
You know, they can go to meetings
suppose, but, you know, it's intimidating
coming bin. And and and all the things
you have to comply with when you get
out is very... It's...
You know, it's a lot of stuff you
gotta comply with. Some of them when they
get out, they have mouths to disease.
You know, babies they have to pay for,
and they... It's hard for them to get
a job. Yeah.
They're gonna pay for these babies when they
don't have a job. So they go back
to doing what they know how to do.
Right. And some of them have been in
prison so long that that's the life they
know. So when they get out, they don't
It's sort of like, in a weird way.
It's very to probably in the way military
people are who are, you know, you send
them to war
10 years, various wars and then expect them
to assimilate
when they get back. It's
and people's supposed.
They learn a lot of a lot of
bad shit
learn how to how to do a lot
of new cracks.
You know, They learn how to we the
system, and they learn how to
They learn a lot of new bad stuff.
Yeah.
We we just finished up up a 22
and 22 program,
which is from the sixteenth
to the fourth of July, June sixteenth to
the fourth of July. Then we we rescued
22 dogs and 22 days bring attention to
veterans suicide, 22 veterans committed commit suicide every
day.
And so we got veterans involved in in
our rescues and my buddy Jewel Rocky who
started this organization called 1 last treat. He's
maybe Cor. So he's
in a navy, but he's basically a combat
entrenched with the marines.
And,
yeah. So he he and I where it's
on that together and and save bunch dogs
and got veterans involved in transported, you'd veterans
involved in being there.
Part of the rescues and it was cool.
Yeah. I followed out on Instagram too, but
I wanted everybody to hear that. Simple cool.
Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. What is that around your
neck? Is that is that from... What is
that tibetan?
The necklace you're... You've got in your hand?
This is actually from from Nic Raw from
a buddy line who made it.
But
yeah. It's got it's got
Eastern origins. It's just made out of
volcanic rock. Call.
Yeah. From Nic rock.
Something grounding
Yeah. I had does she 2 days. Why
Sleep.
I I had back surgery. Oh, and doesn't
sleeping, and then I... We were in prison
all day yesterday, and I really felt like,
off my game. There were a couple of
guys that were really struggling, and it's kinda
of my job to go.
Speak with them pull aside, have talks to
them and and get to the bottom of
what what's happening in their mind.
And I just felt like I wasn't being
as genuine as I could it's been because
I was so exhausted.
Like, I was... There's sometimes remake eye contact
with another man when you're trying to be
vulnerable. It's certainly when you're doing inside a
prison with a man of the officer race
who is not used to interacting with you.
We you're not using to interacting with him.
It's somebody that you love somebody that you
care about, but... And you wanna have the
right answers for him, but I also was
in a position to I needed to be
tough.
This person was in trouble.
You know, and I needed to be you,
not enable him, and I I just... You
know, I beat myself up a little bit
from that 1.
But, yeah, there's a lot going on lot
of responsibility and and, you know, sometimes they
still feel like a kid who's trying to
catch up
Yeah. In the canvas life.
Yeah. I know that feeling.
So you need to figure out how to
raise 50 grand a year per program. Right?
Or per... Wait. Per inmate or per program?
We need when
like,
to do the prison program, yeah. We need...
We do it 3 times a year.
3 and a half times. So, yeah. We
need 50000 dollars a year. Does it do?
Yeah. That's encompassing all the prisoners that take
part in it.
Yeah. That's to do just Cal city. So
that's to do has to graduate. That's to
save basically 30 dogs
and probably
a hundred of me.
Is that hard when you go in to
talk to the the shelters and say, look,
this is what I'm doing. Are they pretty
good about just saying, okay. Here you go.
Here's Here's
program? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They love it. That's
good.
Yeah. They don't want red tape you to
death or anything.
No. No. Current County animal services like,
outrageous supportive. I wouldn't be in any other
city.
I, the the love that we get from
our shelter and and
the the
the support they give us is is, like,
second to none. It's so different. Going to
Los Angeles,
trying to pull a dog. It takes, like,
an hour and a half. I walk in,
I don't have to... I mean, they give
us free reign to to work because they
trust us,
to pull dogs to to help facilitate different
things. Send us pictures of different dogs. They're
just... There are buddies and there are c
rescuers and are people... I'd love
to talk a little bit about the
the dog meat trade
that you go in and you help get
by the truck
literally truckload. These dogs are being taken to
the most
disturbing
situations
I understand culturally that that
it's but it's pretty hard to have any
kind of understanding. For... At least for me,
I file card. Lot a lot of torturing
involved
so
god when they're killed for the meat right
are usually killed
I thought, you know, you're trying to do
to course the drill their vein and cortisol
as as much is possible. So you're
str them or electro queuing them,
that's how they die. Yeah they say and
I think sent a buyer, and I think
them electro.
And that's other kill. Right? Front me. Right?
In the middle of a market, middle of
downtown soul,
plain is day with with dogg meat, you
know, displayed and it came base tray there
with
case got all around and.
Yeah. I would love to continue to be
involved in that on.
I don't know. I mean, we we are
in that we don't
accept dogs from soy dog foundation. You know,
we go over a bit thailand a couple
times. I've been in the Korea,
in the trenches, and then, that was definitely
an experience
but so we support sorry our foundation and
we try to help them as much possible
in pull dogs, and,
yeah. It's a it's... The culture and the
paradigm is gonna shift. It's just matter our
time.
We... It's been exposed, we keep shining a
light down
it's definitely.
It's gonna change it's gonna happen within Korea,
but I have in China. You know, China.
It's not gonna happen because I'm brit for
some American terms in there thousands too. It's
gonna have to happen from within. Yeah.
Can you talk a minute about, 1 of
your experiences when you were in Korea or
when you were dealing with that? Or is
it just
Yeah. I mean, we... I was shocked to
how easy it was my dog meat farms
and how easy it was to play merck
yes.
How easy it was to find restaurant serves,
you know,
restaurant it's serve
telling meat soup, especially in the
in the
summertime, and it
Believe that Dogg gives you keeps your body
temper regulated.
So it was everywhere. And and then the
fifth farms were enormous. They were just... There
were so smaller ones segment we went to
couple's all and we reviewed.
Mac and May and then soul an older
retriever.
And people talk had to shit dude. I
think we planted them there. They didn't think
there being in the retriever at a dog
plant.
And they thought the video was, like, sage
to unbelievable what people over the shit people
talked.
But it was good terrific There's so many
doctors there there. Just the horrible conditions.
And,
you know, all you can help to do
is
is, you know, I played kind of a
west
like expose. Right we're I my camera the
video camera Right at Gopro, and my job
is to kind of
get them to get us dogs,
you know, Stare the shout, Na Kim the
guy which she knew everything about the rules,
and the regulations to scare these people into
And this is, like, polluting brown groundwater, noise
solution. Stuff that you get site you pick
for. So not actually having dogs,
but Not necessarily illegal, to other stuff. And
it was pretty horrific. I mean, it was
really horrific. A lot of the things we
saw. And and I was just surprised that
Japanese People
some of the neighbors of the dog farm
work were bread. Did they were they were
pissed off and they didn't want them there,
and they thought negatively bought it. Couple of
them.
It just kinda depends. It in cock, and
you know. It's it's kinda like,
you know, some people fly Jack lag proudly
because of their there's several worse on heritage.
And other people will being at the worst
in the world. Right. And they all they
could live next door other, you know? Yeah.
Wow, so what's your... What's your plan? Do
you have a big plan?
What's next? For
everything.
What's next is I wanna I wanna help
rehab reevaluate dogs and people in 1 place.
So I wanna have a wanna create a
center where we can rehab
people alongside dog. Just like, what happened with
me. Yeah. So that's my goal.
Awesome. This is data of breast
for humans and dog.
That that is my... That's my jam, my
goal.
So if you... Have everything in my head.
Repeat that. Was gonna say I have everything
in my head and everything in my order
to accomplish it.
I just need to raise the money. Yeah.
You ever do a fundraiser in Nashville, I
can get you a handful of musicians that
would totally be there for you. So just
so you know. But that would be amazing.
Yeah. You're you're in Nashville. Yeah. I'm in
Nashville national.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I've never been. They're good thing.
Oh, it's a good town. Good food.
It's fun. It's it's it's growing
exponentially. It's it's a little nutty. But, yeah,
it's flawed to do with Let's c. Yeah.
I love go. Again.
Come on.
Come on. So do you think that the
u 7 years ago would have
could have wrapped his head around the u
now?
7 years ago. Right? Out.
8, almost 8. 8.
That's a good question. I
I don't think no part of me thought
Would be raising dogs so and
working with
at alcoholic. I mean, soon after I got
into sobriety, I knew that even my sobriety
was working other people,
but I didn't know that I would be
doing it.
You know, that that that that would be
what makes me happy.
That it is what truly
like,
you know,
stokes my fire is is working with other
people that are struggling thing. I I don't
I don't... I feel quite a alive I
do... Because you just... You that's when you
because it's hard for me to stay grateful.
I can't just... I don't wake up. I
don't go to Bed grade.
But when I work with, maybe it's not
weird, but probably a lot of ego related.
But I when I work with somebody who's
struggling, I remember what I'd like to struggle.
And and
and then if it's all
it's all there, it all make sense, You
know, and that, and then I tangible.
I don't just feel grateful. And that part
of whatever mind me know, you know. That
is difficult for me to be just happy.
I have to be I have to be
active to be happy at my
like, default,
you know, frequency isn't necessarily stoked. You know,
I'm
I have to be doing something to... I
have to be an action to be half...
Yeah.
It's a good thing to know about yourself?
Sometimes, you know, I like to say sometimes
you're in the very last place you look.
Yeah. Yeah. A good 1. The where it
is.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for talking
on the podcast. I really appreciate. You're absolutely
welcome.
Shoot me a
yeah. Thank you for the listeners, and please
go to Marley dot org. And donate quarter.
I'll put stuff. I'll put links up on
my website too and,
and do all that stuff, and,
you know.
Okay. Get the word out. And good luck
with everything.
Alright.
Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you very much
for for taking the time
the pleasure was mine, honestly. I'm just... I'm
so happy that people like you exist in
the world thank God, You know?
I mean, not just from the animal perspective,
I mean, I'm super happy that there are
dogs out there that who had no chance
and now have a chance.
But I'm glad a there are people out
there as well.
Same thing. I appreciate.
Bye.