1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,619 Hey, humans. How's it going? 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,400 Susan Ruth here. Thanks for listening to another 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:12,900 episode 4 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:14,660 of Hey, Human podcast. 5 00:00:15,735 --> 00:00:17,914 This is episode 462, 6 00:00:18,054 --> 00:00:20,074 and my guest is Jordan Okell. 7 00:00:20,774 --> 00:00:23,114 Born deaf, Jordan was raised in the oralist 8 00:00:23,175 --> 00:00:26,535 tradition without sign language, which he'll explain more 9 00:00:26,535 --> 00:00:27,675 about in this episode. 10 00:00:28,300 --> 00:00:30,219 Jordan and I met in Waco at the 11 00:00:30,219 --> 00:00:32,780 film festival there, where the film he wrote 12 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:35,979 and directed Healing Hands won best student short 13 00:00:35,979 --> 00:00:37,920 film and best family short. 14 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:40,399 The film is based on his experiences 15 00:00:40,939 --> 00:00:42,795 as a deaf child, 16 00:00:43,335 --> 00:00:46,054 including a night when he was taken as 17 00:00:46,054 --> 00:00:50,155 a child to a Benny Hinn miracle crusade 18 00:00:50,454 --> 00:00:52,074 to be healed from his deafness. 19 00:00:53,414 --> 00:00:53,914 I 20 00:00:54,454 --> 00:00:56,714 met him at the award show of 21 00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:57,840 the film 22 00:00:58,299 --> 00:01:01,100 festival, and I just loved his vibe. And 23 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:02,159 we started chatting, 24 00:01:02,699 --> 00:01:04,939 and he was very gracious to to come 25 00:01:04,939 --> 00:01:05,759 on the show. 26 00:01:06,219 --> 00:01:08,619 I need to say my vocal cord is 27 00:01:08,619 --> 00:01:10,479 healing. I'm sound very scratchy. 28 00:01:11,420 --> 00:01:12,319 It's a process. 29 00:01:12,734 --> 00:01:14,334 I for those who don't know, I was 30 00:01:14,334 --> 00:01:16,515 born with a paralyzed, striped vocal cord. 31 00:01:16,895 --> 00:01:17,395 And 32 00:01:17,855 --> 00:01:18,355 doctor 33 00:01:18,974 --> 00:01:21,295 Johns here at Keck Medical Center in Los 34 00:01:21,295 --> 00:01:22,754 Angeles is fantastic, 35 00:01:23,454 --> 00:01:24,435 and he is 36 00:01:24,909 --> 00:01:26,750 working to help make the left one not 37 00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:28,829 have to work so hard by doing stuff 38 00:01:28,829 --> 00:01:30,609 to the right one to fatten it up. 39 00:01:30,829 --> 00:01:32,909 It will never move, but maybe we make 40 00:01:32,909 --> 00:01:34,269 the left one not have to work so 41 00:01:34,269 --> 00:01:36,909 hard. Anyway, that's why I'm scratchy voiced and 42 00:01:36,909 --> 00:01:38,829 will be for quite a while. So bear 43 00:01:38,829 --> 00:01:40,954 with me on the healing journey. 44 00:01:41,655 --> 00:01:44,135 General stuff, check out Hey Human podcast for 45 00:01:44,135 --> 00:01:45,895 links and to learn more about my guests 46 00:01:45,895 --> 00:01:46,555 in the show. 47 00:01:46,855 --> 00:01:48,375 Check out susanruth.com 48 00:01:48,375 --> 00:01:50,135 to learn more about me and my other 49 00:01:50,135 --> 00:01:51,114 artistic endeavors. 50 00:01:51,655 --> 00:01:54,750 Follow susan ruthism on social media, and find 51 00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:57,010 my music on Spotify, Apple Music, 52 00:01:57,869 --> 00:01:59,890 Amazon Music, wherever you get your music. 53 00:02:00,189 --> 00:02:03,170 Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human podcast 54 00:02:04,269 --> 00:02:07,549 anywhere you get your podcasts. And actually wanted 55 00:02:07,549 --> 00:02:09,564 to say, guess what? Blurby, 56 00:02:10,264 --> 00:02:10,764 podcasts 57 00:02:11,705 --> 00:02:13,944 made Hey Human its podcast of the month. 58 00:02:13,944 --> 00:02:16,125 So thank you to y'all for that. 59 00:02:16,504 --> 00:02:17,564 And, yeah, 60 00:02:17,944 --> 00:02:19,564 be well, take care, 61 00:02:20,185 --> 00:02:22,604 be kind, and here we go. 62 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,620 Jordan Okel, welcome to Hey Human. 63 00:02:26,159 --> 00:02:28,000 Thank you so much, Susan. Good to see 64 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:28,659 you again. 65 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,280 It's so good to see you. We met 66 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,240 at Waco at the Independent Film Festival, and 67 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:34,740 I 68 00:02:35,245 --> 00:02:37,085 was so delighted to be sitting next to 69 00:02:37,085 --> 00:02:39,245 you because you kept winning awards, and it 70 00:02:39,245 --> 00:02:40,145 was so exciting. 71 00:02:41,004 --> 00:02:43,185 Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. It was 72 00:02:43,245 --> 00:02:44,465 certainly humbling, 73 00:02:44,844 --> 00:02:45,344 surprising. 74 00:02:45,645 --> 00:02:48,125 I was just touched by it. So I 75 00:02:48,125 --> 00:02:49,564 was honored to have you sit next to 76 00:02:49,564 --> 00:02:51,780 me. It couldn't have happened to a nicer 77 00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:53,939 person, so I was Thank you. Thrilled for 78 00:02:53,939 --> 00:02:57,000 you. Let's a little bit dig into you 79 00:02:57,060 --> 00:02:58,979 before we get into what you do now, 80 00:02:58,979 --> 00:03:01,719 who you are, where were you raised up, 81 00:03:02,419 --> 00:03:04,659 what was your family life like, how did 82 00:03:04,659 --> 00:03:05,639 that shape you? 83 00:03:06,155 --> 00:03:09,055 I am a native Texan. I was born 84 00:03:09,275 --> 00:03:12,094 in, the Austin area, grew up there. 85 00:03:12,474 --> 00:03:13,135 I had 86 00:03:13,435 --> 00:03:14,875 a cup like, two and a half years 87 00:03:14,875 --> 00:03:16,974 as a child where I lived in Illinois. 88 00:03:17,194 --> 00:03:20,150 So I've experienced the the winters of the 89 00:03:20,150 --> 00:03:22,710 North, but my family moved back down when 90 00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:24,710 I was five or six. You know, I've 91 00:03:24,710 --> 00:03:26,710 I've been living here most of my life. 92 00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:28,949 My my wife is from Waco, so I've, 93 00:03:29,270 --> 00:03:30,789 she and I have lived here for the 94 00:03:30,789 --> 00:03:32,250 last, I don't know, twelve, 95 00:03:32,615 --> 00:03:34,855 fifteen years, something like that. I can't count 96 00:03:34,855 --> 00:03:37,995 anymore. So I've called Waco home since then. 97 00:03:38,615 --> 00:03:41,415 As far as family life, I've had a 98 00:03:41,415 --> 00:03:42,875 very loving family. 99 00:03:43,175 --> 00:03:45,335 My family my parents live here in town, 100 00:03:45,335 --> 00:03:47,014 and my wife's parents live here in town, 101 00:03:47,014 --> 00:03:50,030 which is really helpful raising our daughter. You 102 00:03:50,030 --> 00:03:51,870 know? It's good to have that extra help. 103 00:03:51,870 --> 00:03:52,849 Do you have siblings? 104 00:03:53,469 --> 00:03:55,389 I have one brother. I I love him 105 00:03:55,389 --> 00:03:56,830 to death. He's a year and a half 106 00:03:56,830 --> 00:03:57,330 younger. 107 00:03:57,629 --> 00:03:58,610 He and his family 108 00:03:59,069 --> 00:04:01,254 live in Europe right now. They they've been 109 00:04:01,254 --> 00:04:03,574 living in Switzerland, but they're moving right now 110 00:04:03,574 --> 00:04:06,455 to Germany. So excited for them. They're they're 111 00:04:06,455 --> 00:04:07,435 having a great time. 112 00:04:07,735 --> 00:04:11,094 Were you born with hearing difficulty? Were you 113 00:04:11,094 --> 00:04:13,735 a hearing child that then developed some how 114 00:04:13,735 --> 00:04:14,955 did that work out? 115 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:17,139 Yeah. So I was born deaf. My parents 116 00:04:17,139 --> 00:04:18,120 didn't know it. 117 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:20,839 And that's deaf with a lowercase d. I 118 00:04:20,980 --> 00:04:22,839 was raised in the 119 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:25,399 what's called the sort of, like, the oralist 120 00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:28,019 tradition. It's not really a tradition, but the 121 00:04:28,019 --> 00:04:31,314 oralist way of kind of living with deafness, 122 00:04:31,375 --> 00:04:33,955 which is that you are taught to speak 123 00:04:34,415 --> 00:04:37,074 and listen with hearing aids, with hearing devices 124 00:04:37,455 --> 00:04:39,935 as opposed to being taught sign language. And 125 00:04:39,935 --> 00:04:42,415 that's really common for better or worse, in 126 00:04:42,415 --> 00:04:44,759 my opinion. I think all deaf and hard 127 00:04:44,759 --> 00:04:47,079 of hearing children should be given the opportunity 128 00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:47,740 to learn 129 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:49,339 both because 130 00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:52,379 ASL is American Sign Language is 131 00:04:52,759 --> 00:04:55,000 made for people like us, and and there's 132 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,779 a whole culture and community 133 00:04:57,319 --> 00:04:59,654 of capital t deaf people. You know, they 134 00:04:59,814 --> 00:05:02,615 their primary language is ASL. So I wasn't 135 00:05:02,615 --> 00:05:03,834 blessed with that opportunity. 136 00:05:04,534 --> 00:05:06,615 But, yeah, my my parents didn't know that 137 00:05:06,615 --> 00:05:08,534 I was deaf for the first year and 138 00:05:08,534 --> 00:05:11,014 a half of life. They just thought I 139 00:05:11,014 --> 00:05:13,814 was struggling to speak or understand what was 140 00:05:13,814 --> 00:05:16,250 being said. It wasn't until my dad walked 141 00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:17,470 in after I was, 142 00:05:18,009 --> 00:05:20,970 napping in my crib and I was facing 143 00:05:20,970 --> 00:05:22,730 the wall away from the door and he 144 00:05:22,730 --> 00:05:24,410 said my name and I didn't turn around 145 00:05:24,410 --> 00:05:26,810 and he stepped closer and said it again 146 00:05:26,810 --> 00:05:28,730 in about four or five different times until 147 00:05:28,730 --> 00:05:31,095 he was right next to my ear, and 148 00:05:31,095 --> 00:05:32,794 that's when I noticed him. They 149 00:05:33,175 --> 00:05:35,115 took me to be seen by an audiologist, 150 00:05:35,894 --> 00:05:37,595 was fitted with hearing aids, 151 00:05:38,214 --> 00:05:39,514 and they were 152 00:05:39,974 --> 00:05:41,675 told, you know, that 153 00:05:42,134 --> 00:05:43,814 it was dangerous for me to hit my 154 00:05:43,814 --> 00:05:45,914 head because I could lose my hearing more. 155 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:48,069 They were told that, you know, it's better 156 00:05:48,069 --> 00:05:50,389 to raise me to learn how to speak 157 00:05:50,389 --> 00:05:52,089 English as opposed to ASL. 158 00:05:52,709 --> 00:05:53,209 And 159 00:05:53,589 --> 00:05:55,669 because of all this, there was a real 160 00:05:55,669 --> 00:05:56,169 stigma 161 00:05:56,789 --> 00:05:57,610 around it, 162 00:05:57,990 --> 00:05:59,449 a real sense of fear 163 00:05:59,750 --> 00:06:00,729 in my parents. 164 00:06:01,544 --> 00:06:03,704 And, you know, they they wanted nothing more 165 00:06:03,704 --> 00:06:04,504 but the best for 166 00:06:05,305 --> 00:06:07,485 to have give me the best life possible. 167 00:06:08,024 --> 00:06:09,324 So that led to 168 00:06:10,104 --> 00:06:13,164 my dad who was told by a friend, 169 00:06:14,329 --> 00:06:17,769 about a famous televangelist named Benny Hinn, goes 170 00:06:17,769 --> 00:06:18,990 around and has a big 171 00:06:19,529 --> 00:06:21,069 healing faith healing, 172 00:06:22,409 --> 00:06:24,329 we'll call it a show. They took me 173 00:06:24,329 --> 00:06:26,750 to that, and I was selected as as 174 00:06:26,889 --> 00:06:27,870 one of the 175 00:06:28,605 --> 00:06:30,305 quote unquote, healing participants, 176 00:06:31,245 --> 00:06:33,185 to come up on stage at age five. 177 00:06:33,725 --> 00:06:34,625 And there were, 178 00:06:35,485 --> 00:06:36,865 over 10,000 people 179 00:06:37,245 --> 00:06:39,084 wanting me to be healed, and so I 180 00:06:39,084 --> 00:06:40,949 lied and said that I was healed because 181 00:06:41,029 --> 00:06:42,410 I didn't know what else to do. 182 00:06:42,949 --> 00:06:44,629 And then the lie was up later that 183 00:06:44,629 --> 00:06:47,689 night. And so that's what that's what inspired 184 00:06:47,990 --> 00:06:50,870 my film that was at Waco Indy this 185 00:06:50,870 --> 00:06:53,189 year. It wasn't until I started making that 186 00:06:53,189 --> 00:06:54,170 film that I 187 00:06:54,629 --> 00:06:55,449 really felt 188 00:06:55,954 --> 00:06:57,574 the healing power of community, 189 00:06:58,115 --> 00:07:00,115 people coming together to help me tell this 190 00:07:00,115 --> 00:07:02,274 story, and it no longer feels like my 191 00:07:02,274 --> 00:07:05,095 story. It feels like the character's story, and 192 00:07:05,154 --> 00:07:07,235 it's just it's just amazing what art can 193 00:07:07,235 --> 00:07:07,735 do. 194 00:07:08,420 --> 00:07:09,319 As a kid, 195 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:11,639 did you feel broken? 196 00:07:12,339 --> 00:07:14,680 Especially since everyone's trying to say, 197 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:16,660 no. No. You have to talk or you 198 00:07:16,660 --> 00:07:19,800 have to pretend. Yeah. I definitely you know, 199 00:07:19,860 --> 00:07:21,459 as a kid, I wouldn't have known to 200 00:07:21,459 --> 00:07:22,393 verbalize it as feeling broken, but I definitely 201 00:07:22,393 --> 00:07:22,478 did feel that way. Even today, I I 202 00:07:22,478 --> 00:07:23,240 don't feel broken anymore, 203 00:07:23,564 --> 00:07:24,064 I 204 00:07:25,165 --> 00:07:25,665 don't 205 00:07:26,764 --> 00:07:28,925 feel broken anymore, but even today, there's a 206 00:07:28,925 --> 00:07:30,705 a stigma because 207 00:07:32,205 --> 00:07:34,705 my my parents, my in laws, they 208 00:07:35,084 --> 00:07:37,884 they've hesitated and and resisted getting hearing aids 209 00:07:37,884 --> 00:07:39,600 when they really needed it. There's still a 210 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,919 sense of stigma in our culture about hearing 211 00:07:41,919 --> 00:07:44,419 loss in their case, deafness in other cases, 212 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:45,139 when 213 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:48,079 there really shouldn't be any shame. There's there's 214 00:07:48,079 --> 00:07:50,579 no difference between hearing aids and and glasses 215 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,019 for most people. So 216 00:07:52,479 --> 00:07:53,939 it's just something that 217 00:07:54,345 --> 00:07:56,585 aids in one of your five senses. So 218 00:07:56,824 --> 00:07:58,665 I see that with my own parents and 219 00:07:58,665 --> 00:08:02,345 even friends, and they there's this idea that 220 00:08:02,345 --> 00:08:02,425 somehow 221 00:08:03,145 --> 00:08:05,085 again, I use the word broken, 222 00:08:05,705 --> 00:08:07,545 but such a good analogy is if you 223 00:08:07,545 --> 00:08:09,870 can't see well, you get glasses. 224 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:12,110 Yeah. I think what 225 00:08:13,050 --> 00:08:15,150 being deaf or hard of hearing, 226 00:08:16,009 --> 00:08:16,990 in my opinion, 227 00:08:17,449 --> 00:08:19,050 living this life has taught me is that 228 00:08:19,050 --> 00:08:21,449 there's there's more than one way to live 229 00:08:21,449 --> 00:08:21,949 a 230 00:08:22,345 --> 00:08:25,464 perfectly normal, beautiful, healthy life, you know? And 231 00:08:25,464 --> 00:08:26,845 it might not look like 232 00:08:27,225 --> 00:08:28,925 the quote unquote average person, 233 00:08:29,225 --> 00:08:31,544 but that doesn't mean I'm not living the 234 00:08:31,544 --> 00:08:34,105 life I was meant to live or living 235 00:08:34,105 --> 00:08:35,804 a life that I can enjoy living. 236 00:08:36,139 --> 00:08:38,139 In fact, there are many benefits, in my 237 00:08:38,139 --> 00:08:40,539 opinion, to the way that that I live 238 00:08:40,539 --> 00:08:42,700 life. I go to sleep and take my 239 00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:44,299 hearing aids out. I don't I don't hear 240 00:08:44,299 --> 00:08:46,000 anything. You know, I 241 00:08:46,339 --> 00:08:48,620 it no sound. It's it's wonderful. I don't 242 00:08:48,620 --> 00:08:50,559 know how people go to sleep hearing 243 00:08:51,274 --> 00:08:52,955 all the noises that they hear. I couldn't 244 00:08:52,955 --> 00:08:55,035 do it. So there are benefits to it 245 00:08:55,035 --> 00:08:55,695 as well. 246 00:08:56,634 --> 00:08:59,035 Yeah. I can understand that desire to shut 247 00:08:59,035 --> 00:08:59,934 out the world. 248 00:09:00,875 --> 00:09:03,535 Yeah. Especially in the world today, it can 249 00:09:03,674 --> 00:09:04,335 be helpful. 250 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:06,879 Do you speak sign language now? 251 00:09:07,580 --> 00:09:10,399 I don't. I've attempted to learn more recently, 252 00:09:10,539 --> 00:09:13,019 and then we we had a we had 253 00:09:13,019 --> 00:09:14,779 a child and life kind of got away 254 00:09:14,779 --> 00:09:16,700 from from us. And I have something I've 255 00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:19,100 it's been on my bucket list to to 256 00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:20,240 learn it more fluently. 257 00:09:20,754 --> 00:09:23,574 I would love to learn from someone who 258 00:09:23,875 --> 00:09:25,794 is is deaf and can and can teach 259 00:09:25,794 --> 00:09:28,514 me directly, you know, learning directly from someone 260 00:09:28,514 --> 00:09:31,154 who that is their first language. I hope 261 00:09:31,154 --> 00:09:33,980 to pay for lessons at some point. You 262 00:09:33,980 --> 00:09:36,319 know, on TikTok, I've noticed a 263 00:09:36,620 --> 00:09:37,120 swell 264 00:09:37,740 --> 00:09:38,240 of 265 00:09:38,940 --> 00:09:39,440 deaf 266 00:09:39,980 --> 00:09:40,879 content creators 267 00:09:41,659 --> 00:09:45,279 or content creators who can't speak, who do 268 00:09:45,914 --> 00:09:48,235 either I've seen American sign language and I've 269 00:09:48,235 --> 00:09:49,995 seen British sign language. I don't know how 270 00:09:49,995 --> 00:09:51,834 much different they are. I assume every country 271 00:09:51,834 --> 00:09:52,654 has their own 272 00:09:53,355 --> 00:09:56,475 language as Yeah. As one would. It's great. 273 00:09:56,475 --> 00:09:58,394 It's great to see that because it tells 274 00:09:58,394 --> 00:10:00,654 me that it is becoming more normalized 275 00:10:01,299 --> 00:10:02,120 and Yeah. 276 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:04,660 And more in the zeitgeist. And, like, you 277 00:10:04,660 --> 00:10:06,820 would go to school. I wish I'd had 278 00:10:06,820 --> 00:10:08,420 that option as a kid. If there had 279 00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:11,559 been sign language, what a cool option. Absolutely. 280 00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:13,480 It's up this whole other world, 281 00:10:14,004 --> 00:10:15,064 like any language. 282 00:10:15,605 --> 00:10:16,824 I I am curious 283 00:10:17,284 --> 00:10:18,664 as a person who is 284 00:10:19,044 --> 00:10:22,245 completely deaf. How do you learn to make 285 00:10:22,245 --> 00:10:24,004 the the words and the sounds? How much 286 00:10:24,004 --> 00:10:25,225 do your hearing aids 287 00:10:25,684 --> 00:10:27,865 articulate sound around you? 288 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,600 Yeah. So thank you for that question. Something 289 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,539 that I think people don't often 290 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,700 realize, because they they wouldn't have 291 00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:39,539 much context to realize it, is that 292 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,379 just like any other way of living, there's 293 00:10:43,875 --> 00:10:46,855 a lot there's a there's a spectrum. Right? 294 00:10:47,634 --> 00:10:48,934 I happen to be 295 00:10:49,315 --> 00:10:50,855 somebody that my 296 00:10:51,554 --> 00:10:52,855 deafness is pretty 297 00:10:53,634 --> 00:10:55,815 severe to profound. I have profound 298 00:10:56,434 --> 00:10:59,610 deafness in my left ear and severe to 299 00:10:59,610 --> 00:11:02,429 profound in my right. Pretty much close to 300 00:11:02,809 --> 00:11:05,210 almost no hearing without hearing aids. In fact, 301 00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:07,450 no hearing whatsoever in my left ear without 302 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:08,429 a hearing aid, basically. 303 00:11:09,129 --> 00:11:09,870 And yet, 304 00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:11,870 I get comments all the time 305 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:12,830 that, 306 00:11:13,450 --> 00:11:14,190 I sound 307 00:11:14,795 --> 00:11:16,495 like I'm not deaf. And 308 00:11:16,955 --> 00:11:18,254 that comes across 309 00:11:18,715 --> 00:11:20,495 you know, I take it as a compliment 310 00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:21,774 from from their perspective 311 00:11:22,555 --> 00:11:24,715 and and receive that in the way that 312 00:11:24,715 --> 00:11:27,675 they mean it. But I I must have 313 00:11:27,675 --> 00:11:28,175 some 314 00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:32,550 mimicking ability. I don't know. I I worked 315 00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:33,929 really hard as a child 316 00:11:34,629 --> 00:11:35,129 to 317 00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:38,490 I asked my mom to tell me, like, 318 00:11:39,029 --> 00:11:40,710 when do when am I saying a word? 319 00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:42,225 Like, what part of the word doesn't sound 320 00:11:42,225 --> 00:11:43,945 right? And I would just practice until I 321 00:11:43,945 --> 00:11:44,764 almost memorized 322 00:11:45,945 --> 00:11:47,725 how it felt to say the words, 323 00:11:48,424 --> 00:11:49,565 quote, unquote, correctly. 324 00:11:50,024 --> 00:11:52,204 So there was all it's deceptive. 325 00:11:52,985 --> 00:11:55,225 My speaking is deceptive for people because it 326 00:11:55,225 --> 00:11:56,605 doesn't actually match 327 00:11:57,649 --> 00:12:01,110 my hearing loss or deafness from an audiologist 328 00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:01,830 perspective. 329 00:12:02,929 --> 00:12:04,389 Whenever I get a new audiologist, 330 00:12:04,769 --> 00:12:05,269 they 331 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:08,629 and they do the hearing test on me, 332 00:12:09,170 --> 00:12:10,389 they're always surprised 333 00:12:11,365 --> 00:12:13,524 because they weren't expecting it to be that 334 00:12:13,524 --> 00:12:14,024 profound. 335 00:12:14,404 --> 00:12:15,785 There are people with 336 00:12:17,365 --> 00:12:19,865 less deafness than than I have, 337 00:12:20,565 --> 00:12:23,045 and they don't speak as well as I 338 00:12:23,045 --> 00:12:24,804 do. So, like, all of all of this 339 00:12:24,804 --> 00:12:25,625 is a spectrum. 340 00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:29,059 And it at the end of the day, 341 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:31,379 from my perspective, 342 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:32,980 we're all just 343 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:34,420 trying to communicate. 344 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:35,860 And, 345 00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:37,940 yeah, I think sometimes people 346 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,334 get hung up on the way that they 347 00:12:40,334 --> 00:12:42,514 sound or the way that someone else sounds 348 00:12:43,615 --> 00:12:44,834 and not enough on 349 00:12:45,294 --> 00:12:47,615 listening to what they're trying to say and 350 00:12:47,615 --> 00:12:49,615 and who they seeing who they really are. 351 00:12:49,615 --> 00:12:52,334 You know? Yeah. Like like you're doing, which 352 00:12:52,334 --> 00:12:52,995 is wonderful. 353 00:12:53,820 --> 00:12:54,320 Thanks. 354 00:12:54,860 --> 00:12:55,360 When 355 00:12:56,139 --> 00:12:57,840 you're speak when I talk, 356 00:12:58,379 --> 00:12:59,200 when I speak, 357 00:12:59,899 --> 00:13:00,639 I have 358 00:13:01,179 --> 00:13:03,580 a voice that's happening in my head as 359 00:13:03,580 --> 00:13:06,080 well as voice that's being projected outward. 360 00:13:07,375 --> 00:13:10,414 And as someone who can't hear, do you 361 00:13:10,414 --> 00:13:12,254 also and this may be the most ignorant 362 00:13:12,254 --> 00:13:14,355 question in the whole world, but I'm curious. 363 00:13:14,414 --> 00:13:16,575 Do you also do you hear a voice 364 00:13:16,575 --> 00:13:18,654 in your head? How does Yes. Listen to 365 00:13:18,654 --> 00:13:19,394 this vibration? 366 00:13:19,929 --> 00:13:21,529 Yeah. No. I definitely hear a voice in 367 00:13:21,529 --> 00:13:23,450 my head, and I think it's because of 368 00:13:23,450 --> 00:13:25,529 the fact that I was raised to learn 369 00:13:25,529 --> 00:13:26,269 how to speak. 370 00:13:26,809 --> 00:13:28,429 I think if I had been 371 00:13:29,929 --> 00:13:31,784 I I don't know. And I haven't asked 372 00:13:31,865 --> 00:13:34,584 this question of someone who is capital d 373 00:13:34,584 --> 00:13:37,324 deaf and and who doesn't wear hearing aids. 374 00:13:37,464 --> 00:13:38,524 I know that they 375 00:13:39,144 --> 00:13:41,304 they have reported that they dream in sign 376 00:13:41,304 --> 00:13:42,444 language. You know? 377 00:13:42,904 --> 00:13:45,725 They dream communicating in in sign language. 378 00:13:46,409 --> 00:13:49,049 So I would also have to guess that 379 00:13:49,049 --> 00:13:51,929 maybe they don't have an inner voice that's 380 00:13:51,929 --> 00:13:54,809 an auditory one, but perhaps one that is 381 00:13:54,809 --> 00:13:57,129 a sign language one. That's just a guess. 382 00:13:57,129 --> 00:13:59,209 I I don't know that for certain, so 383 00:13:59,209 --> 00:14:01,470 that's a big disclaimer there. But for me, 384 00:14:01,514 --> 00:14:02,254 I do 385 00:14:02,634 --> 00:14:04,014 hear a voice when 386 00:14:04,475 --> 00:14:07,595 when I'm thinking or reading, and I I 387 00:14:07,595 --> 00:14:09,455 hear in my dreams as well. 388 00:14:10,154 --> 00:14:11,434 That was going to be one of my 389 00:14:11,434 --> 00:14:13,355 questions, so I'm glad you brought it up. 390 00:14:13,355 --> 00:14:15,230 I I was curious about that. I I 391 00:14:15,230 --> 00:14:17,009 mean, it makes complete sense. Again, 392 00:14:17,470 --> 00:14:19,950 I think there's a disconnect for myself as 393 00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:22,830 well growing up of this idea that sign 394 00:14:22,830 --> 00:14:23,330 language 395 00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:25,170 is somehow other. 396 00:14:26,190 --> 00:14:27,790 It's a weird thing because you can other 397 00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:30,610 a person who's deaf. Yeah. That happens 398 00:14:31,365 --> 00:14:33,684 because I think that it's perceived a certain 399 00:14:33,684 --> 00:14:34,184 way. 400 00:14:34,565 --> 00:14:35,625 But then also 401 00:14:36,085 --> 00:14:39,605 the idea that this language is somehow other 402 00:14:39,605 --> 00:14:40,664 when it's not. 403 00:14:41,284 --> 00:14:41,784 Yeah. 404 00:14:42,085 --> 00:14:45,799 Yeah. I am happy that, like, for example, 405 00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:47,320 I did a TikTok when I first had 406 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,179 the procedure on my vocal cord. 407 00:14:49,559 --> 00:14:51,480 I did a thing. I I did it 408 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:52,220 really quickly. 409 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,559 I said, hey. This is what's going on. 410 00:14:55,559 --> 00:14:57,639 This is my voice. It's gonna be several 411 00:14:57,639 --> 00:15:00,315 months before it returns to normal, hopefully. 412 00:15:00,935 --> 00:15:01,835 Fingers crossed. 413 00:15:02,375 --> 00:15:02,875 And 414 00:15:03,975 --> 00:15:06,394 I didn't normally, I put captions 415 00:15:06,855 --> 00:15:08,235 on my TikToks, 416 00:15:09,095 --> 00:15:11,575 and I didn't for this one. And someone 417 00:15:11,575 --> 00:15:13,035 in the comments said, hey. 418 00:15:13,610 --> 00:15:15,769 I need captions. And I I was like, 419 00:15:15,769 --> 00:15:18,830 oh, I'm a dick. Of course you do. 420 00:15:19,050 --> 00:15:19,870 And so 421 00:15:20,730 --> 00:15:22,649 it it it goes down to this idea 422 00:15:22,649 --> 00:15:25,050 of it's like, yeah. That's that is a 423 00:15:25,050 --> 00:15:25,790 no brainer. 424 00:15:26,465 --> 00:15:28,165 It's just, of course, you do. 425 00:15:28,625 --> 00:15:30,705 Mhmm. And that what's wrong with just like 426 00:15:30,705 --> 00:15:32,384 I interviewed a woman who was who was 427 00:15:32,384 --> 00:15:32,884 blind, 428 00:15:33,504 --> 00:15:35,264 and I described what I was wearing and 429 00:15:35,264 --> 00:15:36,945 what I looked like before we started the 430 00:15:36,945 --> 00:15:39,585 interview. So she had a context in her 431 00:15:39,585 --> 00:15:40,085 mind. 432 00:15:41,139 --> 00:15:41,959 And it's 433 00:15:42,740 --> 00:15:45,079 it's interesting how we place 434 00:15:45,779 --> 00:15:49,379 ideas of things outside of the reality of 435 00:15:49,379 --> 00:15:52,120 things for whatever reason, lack of understanding, 436 00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:53,320 bigotry, 437 00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:55,079 just confusion, 438 00:15:55,459 --> 00:15:55,959 fear. 439 00:15:57,455 --> 00:15:57,955 Yeah. 440 00:15:58,735 --> 00:16:01,715 Yeah. Absolutely. And I think too what 441 00:16:03,055 --> 00:16:06,415 you're you're you're touching on is there's almost 442 00:16:06,415 --> 00:16:08,894 a fear that I I sense it sometimes 443 00:16:08,894 --> 00:16:10,754 with some people. There's a fear that 444 00:16:11,389 --> 00:16:12,929 they feel like they might say something 445 00:16:13,389 --> 00:16:15,149 to offend me or or hurt my feelings 446 00:16:15,149 --> 00:16:16,830 or ask they're not sure if a question 447 00:16:16,830 --> 00:16:18,370 is appropriate. And 448 00:16:18,830 --> 00:16:21,649 there there are definite I've I've talked with 449 00:16:22,029 --> 00:16:25,009 deaf and and hard of hearing individuals who 450 00:16:25,894 --> 00:16:29,014 do get touchy about questions or, you know, 451 00:16:29,014 --> 00:16:30,794 things like that. But I've never 452 00:16:31,095 --> 00:16:33,735 been I've I've always been appreciative when people 453 00:16:33,735 --> 00:16:35,115 ask questions because 454 00:16:35,495 --> 00:16:37,754 I see it as someone trying to 455 00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:40,420 get to know me, get to know something 456 00:16:40,420 --> 00:16:42,660 that's a part of me. You know? And 457 00:16:42,660 --> 00:16:44,580 and there's not a lot of information out 458 00:16:44,580 --> 00:16:47,059 there. I I even you know, I'll be 459 00:16:47,059 --> 00:16:49,300 honest. Part of the reason I didn't learn 460 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:51,160 ASL as a child is 461 00:16:51,714 --> 00:16:54,355 I felt the stigma so strongly that if 462 00:16:54,355 --> 00:16:55,495 I learned ASL, 463 00:16:56,274 --> 00:16:57,095 I would be 464 00:16:57,794 --> 00:16:59,975 seen as deaf. In fact, I didn't embrace 465 00:17:00,034 --> 00:17:01,414 the term deaf until 466 00:17:02,434 --> 00:17:05,519 probably seventy eight years ago because I I 467 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:07,440 was always refer to myself as hard hard 468 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:08,180 of hearing 469 00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:10,420 because I I've lived 470 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:13,460 in two worlds, and I and I didn't 471 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,160 want to think about living in two worlds. 472 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,940 I wanted people to see me as, 473 00:17:18,474 --> 00:17:21,214 you know, quote unquote normal. And 474 00:17:21,754 --> 00:17:22,254 I 475 00:17:22,634 --> 00:17:24,794 I come to realize that I've only been 476 00:17:24,794 --> 00:17:26,414 hurting myself by participating 477 00:17:27,514 --> 00:17:30,554 in that that stigma and that fear. That's 478 00:17:30,554 --> 00:17:32,234 part of why I didn't learn ASL is 479 00:17:32,234 --> 00:17:34,095 I was I was resistant to 480 00:17:34,769 --> 00:17:36,470 learning it because of that 481 00:17:36,850 --> 00:17:38,930 stigma of being seen as deaf. Kinda got 482 00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:40,769 away from what you were getting at, I 483 00:17:40,769 --> 00:17:43,330 think. But You you get to pass through 484 00:17:43,330 --> 00:17:45,029 the world on your own terms. 485 00:17:45,410 --> 00:17:47,170 Mhmm. So if you start to use this 486 00:17:47,170 --> 00:17:48,309 external language 487 00:17:49,345 --> 00:17:50,484 all bets are off. 488 00:17:50,944 --> 00:17:52,404 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 489 00:17:53,184 --> 00:17:55,105 And I I've had deaf people come up 490 00:17:55,105 --> 00:17:56,784 to me and start signing, and there's there's 491 00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:58,625 a shame on on the other side too 492 00:17:58,625 --> 00:18:00,944 where I have to say, I'm so sorry. 493 00:18:00,944 --> 00:18:02,325 I I don't know how 494 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:03,940 how to sign. 495 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,420 And they they come up with such excitement. 496 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,559 Oh, there's someone else in the world who 497 00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:10,079 I can speak to, and and then I 498 00:18:10,079 --> 00:18:10,740 have to 499 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,980 I have to let them down. So 500 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,664 there's there's sort of a pain on both 501 00:18:16,664 --> 00:18:17,804 sides of the equation 502 00:18:18,345 --> 00:18:19,244 there. And 503 00:18:20,105 --> 00:18:22,524 that's why I'm I'm really appreciative when people 504 00:18:23,065 --> 00:18:25,544 talk about this more with me when they 505 00:18:25,544 --> 00:18:26,924 when they ask questions. 506 00:18:27,224 --> 00:18:29,670 That's how we're gonna break down stigma, you 507 00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:31,750 know, and make this world a better place 508 00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:32,970 for the future generations. 509 00:18:33,670 --> 00:18:35,750 And just one more thing. On closed captions, 510 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:37,049 I'm so glad that you 511 00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:39,130 do that. I'm so glad that 512 00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:39,930 even 513 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:43,910 hearing people of the younger generation, Gen z 514 00:18:43,910 --> 00:18:46,855 and and now Gen Alpha. I've 515 00:18:47,315 --> 00:18:48,994 seen it all over the place, read it 516 00:18:48,994 --> 00:18:50,994 all over the place. They love watching with 517 00:18:50,994 --> 00:18:53,075 captions on, and that makes me so happy 518 00:18:53,075 --> 00:18:53,575 because 519 00:18:54,914 --> 00:18:57,255 it makes it more accessible for for everybody. 520 00:18:57,539 --> 00:18:59,940 You know? Yeah. To me, there's nothing distracting 521 00:18:59,940 --> 00:19:01,859 about captions. In fact, it's helped my daughter 522 00:19:01,859 --> 00:19:04,259 learn how to probably read quicker than some 523 00:19:04,259 --> 00:19:06,580 of her peers because we watch with captions 524 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:08,660 on all the time. Yeah. And she can 525 00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:09,160 associate. 526 00:19:09,779 --> 00:19:10,279 Yeah. 527 00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:11,160 Exactly. 528 00:19:11,855 --> 00:19:13,375 And when we were at the table during 529 00:19:13,375 --> 00:19:16,414 the awards ceremony of, where you got all 530 00:19:16,414 --> 00:19:19,375 the awards, excitingly, so I when when I 531 00:19:19,375 --> 00:19:20,115 sat down, 532 00:19:20,654 --> 00:19:22,575 I realized I could tell by your eye 533 00:19:22,575 --> 00:19:25,315 line that you were looking at my mouth. 534 00:19:25,615 --> 00:19:28,230 Yes. And I was like, oh, okay. So 535 00:19:28,690 --> 00:19:31,089 he reads lips. And I think I even 536 00:19:31,089 --> 00:19:33,329 asked you if that helped, and you said 537 00:19:33,329 --> 00:19:34,690 yes. And I knew that we were in 538 00:19:34,690 --> 00:19:35,750 such a loud environment. 539 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:38,630 And I was I became hyperaware 540 00:19:39,445 --> 00:19:41,845 that during the conversation at the table, it 541 00:19:41,845 --> 00:19:43,445 was really because I was sitting right next 542 00:19:43,445 --> 00:19:45,125 to you. Yeah. It was important for me 543 00:19:45,125 --> 00:19:46,884 to turn my body so you could watch 544 00:19:46,884 --> 00:19:47,705 my mouth. 545 00:19:48,404 --> 00:19:48,904 And 546 00:19:49,605 --> 00:19:51,865 it's funny because I do think that 547 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:54,519 people would maybe be put out some people 548 00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:55,899 might be put out by that. 549 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,359 Like, you have to adjust to me instead 550 00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:59,500 of the other way around. 551 00:19:59,879 --> 00:20:01,179 And I'm saying it, 552 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,099 it's not hard to make a simple adjustment 553 00:20:05,319 --> 00:20:06,460 to make sure everybody 554 00:20:07,765 --> 00:20:09,785 at the table are experiencing 555 00:20:10,325 --> 00:20:12,904 the same thing as best as everyone can. 556 00:20:13,525 --> 00:20:16,025 My greatest frustration with the human race 557 00:20:17,365 --> 00:20:18,105 is that 558 00:20:19,285 --> 00:20:19,785 people, 559 00:20:20,884 --> 00:20:22,184 we feel put out 560 00:20:22,750 --> 00:20:25,150 by just a little bit of effort to 561 00:20:25,150 --> 00:20:27,809 make sure everybody feels okay. Like, that's somehow 562 00:20:28,109 --> 00:20:29,970 dirty word now. 563 00:20:30,349 --> 00:20:32,609 It's become a dirty word to 564 00:20:33,309 --> 00:20:35,890 be aware, and woke is the colloquialism, 565 00:20:36,269 --> 00:20:37,809 but to be aware 566 00:20:38,484 --> 00:20:40,984 of other human beings around us. 567 00:20:41,365 --> 00:20:41,865 Yeah. 568 00:20:42,724 --> 00:20:43,944 That's a long pontificate 569 00:20:44,325 --> 00:20:44,804 into 570 00:20:45,204 --> 00:20:46,585 No. That's My frustration 571 00:20:48,404 --> 00:20:51,464 of the I get excited when I see, 572 00:20:51,730 --> 00:20:53,730 I I mean, I'm not hard of hearing. 573 00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:55,970 I'm not I don't have any issues around 574 00:20:55,970 --> 00:20:58,849 auditory. Obviously, I have a vocal cord thing 575 00:20:58,849 --> 00:21:00,710 that I was born with. But 576 00:21:01,329 --> 00:21:03,589 when I see movies like CODA 577 00:21:04,144 --> 00:21:05,924 or when I see Marlee Matlin 578 00:21:06,384 --> 00:21:07,365 winning an Oscar, 579 00:21:07,984 --> 00:21:08,724 I'm like, 580 00:21:09,105 --> 00:21:09,845 fuck. Yeah. 581 00:21:11,345 --> 00:21:12,884 It makes the world 582 00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:14,565 smaller, 583 00:21:15,264 --> 00:21:18,460 and it's it's so important for people to 584 00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:19,240 see themselves, 585 00:21:19,859 --> 00:21:21,779 for people to see someone who's a little 586 00:21:21,779 --> 00:21:24,919 different. Mhmm. All of that is so imperative. 587 00:21:25,619 --> 00:21:27,319 It makes me so angry 588 00:21:28,019 --> 00:21:29,960 that that has become vilified. 589 00:21:30,419 --> 00:21:32,179 Can things be taken like, can you get 590 00:21:32,179 --> 00:21:32,679 extra? 591 00:21:33,105 --> 00:21:34,224 Like, if I had come up to you 592 00:21:34,224 --> 00:21:36,065 and been like, oh, let me hold you 593 00:21:36,065 --> 00:21:36,964 like a bebe. 594 00:21:37,345 --> 00:21:37,845 No. 595 00:21:38,224 --> 00:21:39,605 That wouldn't be appropriate. No. 596 00:21:40,625 --> 00:21:41,444 No. Not 597 00:21:42,144 --> 00:21:43,525 what we're talking about. 598 00:21:43,904 --> 00:21:44,404 Right. 599 00:21:45,184 --> 00:21:47,990 Yeah. I mean, I I so appreciate you 600 00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:49,509 saying all that. I mean, I 601 00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:52,169 and for being aware of 602 00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:53,289 how 603 00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:56,069 you could help me understand you in that 604 00:21:56,069 --> 00:21:56,809 loud environment. 605 00:21:57,589 --> 00:21:59,829 Something that I was taught, and this is 606 00:21:59,829 --> 00:22:02,569 exactly related to this, something that I was 607 00:22:03,485 --> 00:22:05,345 it was a mind shift for me. 608 00:22:06,365 --> 00:22:07,424 When I 609 00:22:08,445 --> 00:22:09,965 when I was casting my film, it was 610 00:22:09,965 --> 00:22:10,545 a nonnegotiable 611 00:22:10,845 --> 00:22:13,085 for me for deaf and and hard of 612 00:22:13,085 --> 00:22:13,904 hearing characters 613 00:22:15,049 --> 00:22:16,730 that they be played by actors who are 614 00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:19,049 deaf and and hard of hearing. That was 615 00:22:19,049 --> 00:22:20,029 never in question. 616 00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:23,049 But because I didn't have much experience with 617 00:22:23,049 --> 00:22:25,230 the capital e deaf community, and 618 00:22:25,849 --> 00:22:28,125 I was fortunate enough to be able to 619 00:22:28,125 --> 00:22:29,585 cast Sandra Mae Frank, 620 00:22:30,365 --> 00:22:33,325 amazing deaf actress, by the way, and such 621 00:22:33,325 --> 00:22:35,505 a sweetheart, like, one of the kindest 622 00:22:36,125 --> 00:22:38,144 people. I hired her 623 00:22:38,684 --> 00:22:39,664 her interpreter 624 00:22:40,045 --> 00:22:41,424 for our Zoom conversations. 625 00:22:43,180 --> 00:22:44,860 And her interpreter, before I ever met with 626 00:22:44,860 --> 00:22:47,580 Sandra Mae Frank, said the reason that I'm 627 00:22:47,580 --> 00:22:49,119 hiring her is because 628 00:22:50,779 --> 00:22:53,920 I she's my accommodation. I don't speak ASL, 629 00:22:54,140 --> 00:22:55,680 so I need the interpreter, 630 00:22:56,974 --> 00:22:57,634 not her. 631 00:22:57,934 --> 00:22:59,075 And that was 632 00:22:59,775 --> 00:23:01,775 and I totally agree, but I had never 633 00:23:01,775 --> 00:23:03,394 thought about it like that before. 634 00:23:04,255 --> 00:23:06,674 So what we're getting at is 635 00:23:07,455 --> 00:23:10,835 if if somebody wants to communicate with me 636 00:23:11,930 --> 00:23:14,250 and they would like a, you know, a 637 00:23:14,250 --> 00:23:14,750 response, 638 00:23:15,529 --> 00:23:16,029 then 639 00:23:16,970 --> 00:23:19,069 sometimes I just need a little bit 640 00:23:19,369 --> 00:23:22,490 of assistance in some cases. Sometimes I have 641 00:23:22,490 --> 00:23:23,869 to read lips. 642 00:23:24,355 --> 00:23:26,514 And like you said, it makes it difficult 643 00:23:26,514 --> 00:23:29,554 if someone is talking a different direction and 644 00:23:29,554 --> 00:23:31,154 and I can't read their lips. I will 645 00:23:31,154 --> 00:23:31,654 try 646 00:23:32,835 --> 00:23:34,674 to adapt. I mean, because that's what I've 647 00:23:34,674 --> 00:23:36,595 done my whole life is adapt, but I 648 00:23:36,595 --> 00:23:38,774 can't I can't always participate. So, 649 00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:40,559 you know, I think the 650 00:23:41,399 --> 00:23:41,899 I 651 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,740 understand there's this sort of, like, human tendency 652 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:45,119 of, 653 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,079 not another thing I have to do for 654 00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:51,759 somebody else. Right? There's there's that life is 655 00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:53,779 hard as it is for every person, 656 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:54,900 but 657 00:23:56,934 --> 00:23:59,494 we can't live life alone. We need each 658 00:23:59,494 --> 00:23:59,994 other. 659 00:24:00,454 --> 00:24:01,434 And sometimes 660 00:24:01,815 --> 00:24:02,634 some of us 661 00:24:03,174 --> 00:24:03,674 need, 662 00:24:05,095 --> 00:24:06,234 a little bit of accommodation 663 00:24:07,335 --> 00:24:09,515 to participate if you want us to participate. 664 00:24:10,214 --> 00:24:12,380 And that's the way that I I look 665 00:24:12,380 --> 00:24:13,679 at it. And, 666 00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:16,220 you know, because I've had to adapt my 667 00:24:16,220 --> 00:24:18,799 whole life, I don't get offended if someone 668 00:24:19,339 --> 00:24:19,839 doesn't, 669 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:21,200 accommodate 670 00:24:21,660 --> 00:24:23,740 or doesn't realize that that I need that 671 00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:26,434 accommodation. And sometimes I'll just say, can you 672 00:24:26,434 --> 00:24:28,194 please repeat that? I didn't catch it. So 673 00:24:28,194 --> 00:24:29,974 sometimes I'll advocate for myself. 674 00:24:30,275 --> 00:24:33,015 Yeah. I think what what you said is 675 00:24:33,075 --> 00:24:33,575 is 676 00:24:34,194 --> 00:24:36,694 not only completely right, but completely empathetic, 677 00:24:36,994 --> 00:24:38,934 and and I appreciate that. 678 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,059 Of course. 679 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,400 Absolutely. I mean, it seems like a no 680 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:44,220 brainer, but 681 00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:46,539 I I remember watching The West Wing, 682 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,940 one of the greatest shows ever made. 683 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,039 And I remember the first time the character, 684 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:53,980 Joey, who is deaf 685 00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:56,194 and has has a interpreter. 686 00:24:57,134 --> 00:24:57,634 And 687 00:24:58,894 --> 00:25:00,194 when the character, 688 00:25:00,734 --> 00:25:01,234 Josh 689 00:25:01,855 --> 00:25:03,474 was talking with Joey, 690 00:25:03,775 --> 00:25:05,134 and she said, look at me, because he 691 00:25:05,134 --> 00:25:06,595 kept looking at the interpreter. 692 00:25:07,134 --> 00:25:09,480 Mhmm. And she said, look at me. And 693 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:10,940 that was such an interesting 694 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,480 you know, I'd never thought about it until 695 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,220 that moment. 696 00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:17,799 Like, of course, because we're prone to follow 697 00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:18,539 the sound. 698 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,579 Yep. But they are interpreting 699 00:25:22,674 --> 00:25:24,595 It's no different. As we said in the 700 00:25:24,595 --> 00:25:25,095 beginning, 701 00:25:25,634 --> 00:25:27,795 if you went to the United Nations and 702 00:25:27,795 --> 00:25:29,494 you were talking with someone from 703 00:25:29,875 --> 00:25:30,375 Zimbabwe 704 00:25:31,075 --> 00:25:32,835 and they were speaking their native tongue, you 705 00:25:32,835 --> 00:25:34,595 wouldn't be looking at the interpreter the whole 706 00:25:34,595 --> 00:25:36,295 time. You'd be looking at the dignitary. 707 00:25:37,075 --> 00:25:37,575 Right. 708 00:25:38,029 --> 00:25:38,529 Exactly. 709 00:25:39,149 --> 00:25:41,630 Exactly. It was such an interesting moment. And, 710 00:25:41,630 --> 00:25:43,789 again, I speak to the this is why 711 00:25:43,789 --> 00:25:46,269 things like having this stuff in television and 712 00:25:46,269 --> 00:25:48,130 movies is so important. Absolutely. 713 00:25:48,829 --> 00:25:50,609 In that example that you gave, 714 00:25:51,734 --> 00:25:54,075 the communication is not happening between 715 00:25:54,535 --> 00:25:56,714 the person who hears and the interpreter. 716 00:25:58,134 --> 00:26:00,394 The communication is happening between 717 00:26:00,775 --> 00:26:03,355 the deaf person and the hearing person 718 00:26:03,919 --> 00:26:06,640 that's having the conversation. So, you know, again, 719 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,980 it goes back to communication. Interpreters, 720 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:10,980 hearing aids, lip reading, 721 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:13,839 all of the closed captions, all of those 722 00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:14,659 things are 723 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:15,779 tools, 724 00:26:16,085 --> 00:26:16,984 but the communication 725 00:26:17,365 --> 00:26:17,865 happens 726 00:26:18,244 --> 00:26:20,265 between people. Yeah. And 727 00:26:20,644 --> 00:26:21,144 when 728 00:26:22,005 --> 00:26:23,845 you know, the reason that you would look 729 00:26:23,845 --> 00:26:26,105 at somebody else is a sign of 730 00:26:26,484 --> 00:26:28,565 I'm communicating with you, a sign of respect, 731 00:26:28,565 --> 00:26:30,105 a sign of connection. Right? 732 00:26:30,529 --> 00:26:32,690 So, yeah, what what you said is right 733 00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:34,929 on. I haven't seen enough of West Wing 734 00:26:34,929 --> 00:26:37,429 to have seen that character, so that's that's 735 00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:39,809 great to know that the character Joey, I 736 00:26:39,809 --> 00:26:41,029 think you said, is 737 00:26:41,409 --> 00:26:43,409 is in there. They are exactly right, and 738 00:26:43,409 --> 00:26:44,309 I'm glad that 739 00:26:44,609 --> 00:26:45,349 that was 740 00:26:46,255 --> 00:26:48,355 such a positive and 741 00:26:49,294 --> 00:26:51,634 mind shifting experience for viewers 742 00:26:52,174 --> 00:26:53,154 just like you. 743 00:26:53,535 --> 00:26:56,095 Yeah. It was great. Are those Emmys behind 744 00:26:56,095 --> 00:26:57,875 you, by the way? No. 745 00:26:58,255 --> 00:27:01,160 No. That those are communicator and telly awards 746 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,859 for commercial that I did. So Cool. Telly's 747 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:05,420 awesome. 748 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,420 Yeah. So I'm I'm proud, but, you know, 749 00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:11,820 this is my work environment. 750 00:27:12,954 --> 00:27:15,274 You teach at Baylor. Correct? I work at 751 00:27:15,274 --> 00:27:16,394 Baylor. I don't teach. 752 00:27:16,714 --> 00:27:17,934 I I am 753 00:27:18,315 --> 00:27:21,034 the associate director of digital strategy for the 754 00:27:21,034 --> 00:27:23,615 business school. I got my film degree here, 755 00:27:24,234 --> 00:27:27,115 because we needed a video production department and 756 00:27:27,115 --> 00:27:29,460 because making films was always a dream for 757 00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:31,619 me. It was it was both, you know. 758 00:27:31,619 --> 00:27:32,440 And so 759 00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:33,320 we 760 00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:35,640 I directed and 761 00:27:36,180 --> 00:27:38,580 co co wrote a commercial that we shot 762 00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:40,820 for the business school, a couple years ago, 763 00:27:40,820 --> 00:27:42,519 and and that's what that's about. 764 00:27:43,015 --> 00:27:43,515 Sweet. 765 00:27:44,694 --> 00:27:46,855 Look at you. You can ask. Yeah. Let's 766 00:27:46,855 --> 00:27:49,335 get into the film that you that that 767 00:27:49,335 --> 00:27:52,214 was at Waco, Healing Hands. Yeah. Talk you 768 00:27:52,214 --> 00:27:54,694 said that it was inspired from childhood, but 769 00:27:54,694 --> 00:27:56,375 talk a little bit about the process, what 770 00:27:56,375 --> 00:27:58,529 the film is about. Yeah. It's it's called 771 00:27:58,529 --> 00:27:59,429 Healing Hands, 772 00:27:59,730 --> 00:28:00,630 as you said. 773 00:28:01,009 --> 00:28:01,829 It's really 774 00:28:02,450 --> 00:28:03,269 it's it's 775 00:28:03,730 --> 00:28:06,789 inspired by my childhood, but it's not it's 776 00:28:07,009 --> 00:28:09,589 a completely literal story. There are definitely, 777 00:28:10,045 --> 00:28:12,525 like, the faith healing scene, which spoiler alert 778 00:28:12,525 --> 00:28:14,285 for those who wanna see it and haven't 779 00:28:14,285 --> 00:28:16,464 seen it. The faith healing scene is 780 00:28:17,404 --> 00:28:20,365 as close as I can remember it being 781 00:28:20,365 --> 00:28:23,505 like with a fictional set of characters, but 782 00:28:24,180 --> 00:28:26,519 pretty much the almost the exact same scenario 783 00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:29,539 with the exception of the mustard seed, which 784 00:28:29,539 --> 00:28:31,779 is physical in the movie but conceptual when 785 00:28:31,779 --> 00:28:33,460 I was a child. It's a six year 786 00:28:33,460 --> 00:28:36,039 old boy named Jonah who 787 00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,039 is struggling at school, 788 00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:39,799 is bullied at school. 789 00:28:40,234 --> 00:28:42,335 His parents take him to a faith healer, 790 00:28:43,195 --> 00:28:45,595 and, he, like I did, lied and said 791 00:28:45,595 --> 00:28:46,095 that 792 00:28:46,474 --> 00:28:49,195 he's healed, he's caught in the lie, and 793 00:28:49,195 --> 00:28:50,815 it's sort of a 794 00:28:51,434 --> 00:28:53,535 an eye opening experience for the parents. 795 00:28:53,994 --> 00:28:55,134 And then the end 796 00:28:55,579 --> 00:28:57,980 of the film, which is when Sandra Mae 797 00:28:57,980 --> 00:28:58,799 Frank's character, 798 00:28:59,740 --> 00:29:01,740 comes in, the end of the film, the 799 00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:02,799 teacher's sister 800 00:29:04,059 --> 00:29:06,140 is deaf and the the teacher knows ASL 801 00:29:06,140 --> 00:29:07,200 fluently. And 802 00:29:07,945 --> 00:29:10,445 because of witnessing bullying of Jonah 803 00:29:10,904 --> 00:29:11,884 in her classroom, 804 00:29:12,424 --> 00:29:14,285 she brings in her sister to 805 00:29:14,825 --> 00:29:17,465 teach the kids about ASL and about what 806 00:29:17,465 --> 00:29:19,085 it means to be deaf. And 807 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,119 Jonah finds a new form of healing, and 808 00:29:22,119 --> 00:29:23,820 it's in it's in the hands of 809 00:29:24,279 --> 00:29:26,539 everybody who can speak ASL. 810 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,820 So that's that's what the story is about. 811 00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:32,140 Making it, like I said, was 812 00:29:32,605 --> 00:29:34,605 I it the biggest surprise for me and 813 00:29:34,605 --> 00:29:35,184 the biggest 814 00:29:36,284 --> 00:29:38,365 reason why I I don't I'm not one 815 00:29:38,365 --> 00:29:40,125 of those people that honestly, I really don't 816 00:29:40,125 --> 00:29:41,804 care about awards. I know they're sitting out 817 00:29:41,804 --> 00:29:42,944 here, but it's for 818 00:29:43,484 --> 00:29:45,904 the work appearance or whatever. I I don't 819 00:29:46,284 --> 00:29:47,984 I really don't care about the 820 00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:51,420 awards. I'm not out to be a, like, 821 00:29:51,420 --> 00:29:54,220 a world famous film director. Be cool, but 822 00:29:54,220 --> 00:29:55,039 that's not 823 00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:56,880 what I think I'm here for. 824 00:29:57,660 --> 00:29:58,160 I 825 00:29:59,100 --> 00:29:59,840 am honestly 826 00:30:00,299 --> 00:30:01,279 more excited 827 00:30:01,740 --> 00:30:02,880 by people 828 00:30:03,544 --> 00:30:04,444 who've seen the 829 00:30:04,825 --> 00:30:06,204 film coming up to me 830 00:30:06,505 --> 00:30:08,605 and telling me their story 831 00:30:09,704 --> 00:30:12,345 and or telling me this film would be 832 00:30:12,345 --> 00:30:14,984 great for someone that I love or someone 833 00:30:14,984 --> 00:30:16,125 that I know who 834 00:30:16,669 --> 00:30:18,450 is in the same kind of situation, 835 00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:21,069 it would mean something to them too. And 836 00:30:21,069 --> 00:30:22,849 because of that, it means something to 837 00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:24,289 me as a viewer. 838 00:30:25,309 --> 00:30:27,089 I I am more touched by 839 00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:28,450 that experience 840 00:30:28,909 --> 00:30:31,250 and also the experience of 841 00:30:31,924 --> 00:30:34,585 the production process, the people who came together 842 00:30:35,525 --> 00:30:38,005 and made the film with me, who came 843 00:30:38,005 --> 00:30:40,265 alongside this really difficult project, 844 00:30:41,365 --> 00:30:41,865 but 845 00:30:42,644 --> 00:30:42,964 were 846 00:30:44,450 --> 00:30:46,869 they they were they've resonated with the story. 847 00:30:47,170 --> 00:30:49,250 Even people who had no experience with deaf 848 00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:51,009 or hard of hearing people, they resonated with 849 00:30:51,009 --> 00:30:52,470 the story so much that 850 00:30:53,410 --> 00:30:55,904 they were excited about making this film. I 851 00:30:55,904 --> 00:30:58,065 I did not expect that. I expected them 852 00:30:58,065 --> 00:30:59,845 to treat it just like any other job, 853 00:31:00,144 --> 00:31:02,144 but they really didn't. And that 854 00:31:02,785 --> 00:31:04,305 and and I had made some other films 855 00:31:04,305 --> 00:31:07,105 before that, so the difference was palpable for 856 00:31:07,105 --> 00:31:09,664 me. So I was honestly healed by that 857 00:31:09,664 --> 00:31:10,164 process. 858 00:31:10,849 --> 00:31:12,690 You know? It like, as I said earlier, 859 00:31:12,690 --> 00:31:13,589 it doesn't feel 860 00:31:14,289 --> 00:31:15,190 like a burden 861 00:31:15,890 --> 00:31:17,509 to carry that story anymore 862 00:31:18,049 --> 00:31:18,549 because 863 00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:21,029 now it's a story that can be shared 864 00:31:21,730 --> 00:31:23,109 with many others. 865 00:31:23,410 --> 00:31:25,029 And it could do some good, 866 00:31:25,634 --> 00:31:27,634 and it has done some good, and and 867 00:31:27,634 --> 00:31:28,375 that means 868 00:31:28,994 --> 00:31:30,535 the world to me. And 869 00:31:31,394 --> 00:31:33,095 my ultimate goal is, 870 00:31:33,474 --> 00:31:35,095 eventually, after it stops, 871 00:31:36,195 --> 00:31:39,335 having its festival run, maybe premieres online, is 872 00:31:39,555 --> 00:31:42,109 being able to share it with parents 873 00:31:43,130 --> 00:31:44,670 of of deaf and hard of hearing children 874 00:31:45,049 --> 00:31:47,630 who are hearing themselves as parents 875 00:31:48,250 --> 00:31:50,809 because that's the situation that my parents were 876 00:31:50,809 --> 00:31:52,910 in. That's the situation I was in. 877 00:31:53,464 --> 00:31:56,184 And there's not there historically has not been 878 00:31:56,184 --> 00:31:57,085 a lot of support. 879 00:31:57,785 --> 00:31:58,285 But 880 00:31:58,744 --> 00:32:00,125 within the last decade, 881 00:32:00,505 --> 00:32:01,484 there has been 882 00:32:01,945 --> 00:32:03,884 communities that have sprung up 883 00:32:04,345 --> 00:32:06,445 for parents to support each other 884 00:32:06,825 --> 00:32:09,005 and bring their kids together. And 885 00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:10,880 it brought tears to my eyes when I 886 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,359 saw saw those groups because that's something I 887 00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:14,900 wish I had had as a kid. 888 00:32:15,599 --> 00:32:16,099 So, 889 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,400 yeah, I hope this dome can can be 890 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,859 shared with people like them. 891 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,799 I hope so too. But I also hope 892 00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:25,275 it it's seen by people who are in 893 00:32:25,275 --> 00:32:28,154 the hearing community as well. I agree. The 894 00:32:28,154 --> 00:32:30,154 same reasons we've been talking about this whole 895 00:32:30,154 --> 00:32:32,474 time, you know. Did you call him Jonah 896 00:32:32,474 --> 00:32:35,674 because of the feeling? Yeah. It's Jonah and 897 00:32:35,674 --> 00:32:37,615 the whale. Yeah. Feeling like I was 898 00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:40,119 in the belly of the beast. And and, 899 00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:42,200 honestly, I structured the story in that way 900 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,980 too. So it starts in the classroom, 901 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,539 goes inside the home, 902 00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:49,799 goes in the faith healing scene, which is 903 00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:50,460 the center 904 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:51,740 of the story. 905 00:32:52,045 --> 00:32:53,805 Yeah. The belly, if you will, and then 906 00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:55,724 he comes back out the other side in 907 00:32:55,724 --> 00:32:56,224 reverse 908 00:32:56,684 --> 00:32:57,585 order. Yeah. 909 00:32:57,964 --> 00:32:58,865 I love that. 910 00:32:59,404 --> 00:33:01,005 I'm a big fan of those sorts of 911 00:33:01,005 --> 00:33:01,505 things. 912 00:33:03,005 --> 00:33:04,765 It it kinda fell in my lap, you 913 00:33:04,765 --> 00:33:06,765 know, once I named him Jonah. I actually 914 00:33:06,765 --> 00:33:07,664 named him Jonah 915 00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:10,460 because there's a there's a movie 916 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,080 called And Your Name is Jonah from the 917 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,640 seventies. It's a television movie. And it's about 918 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,360 a boy who is deaf and his parents 919 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:19,019 kind of 920 00:33:19,894 --> 00:33:21,514 bring him home from an institution, 921 00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,054 that they had put him in. Trying to 922 00:33:24,054 --> 00:33:25,115 reintegrate him 923 00:33:25,575 --> 00:33:26,075 into 924 00:33:26,934 --> 00:33:27,595 the community 925 00:33:28,134 --> 00:33:30,294 was a struggle for all of them, for 926 00:33:30,294 --> 00:33:31,914 both the boy and the parents. 927 00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:34,950 And I that movie touched me. The character 928 00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:37,350 touched me. So I I named him Jonah 929 00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:37,850 first 930 00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:39,610 after that character, 931 00:33:40,150 --> 00:33:41,210 and then I 932 00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:44,309 it I it clicked with me because as 933 00:33:44,309 --> 00:33:45,830 a child, I learned about Jonah and the 934 00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:48,345 whale and, you know, I thought of structuring 935 00:33:48,345 --> 00:33:50,204 the story in that way as a result 936 00:33:51,144 --> 00:33:53,305 of naming the character after that other character. 937 00:33:53,305 --> 00:33:55,545 So it was it was a kind of 938 00:33:55,545 --> 00:33:57,484 a serendipitous thing. 939 00:33:58,744 --> 00:34:01,164 What was your parents' reaction 940 00:34:01,630 --> 00:34:03,890 when they watched the movie, and then what 941 00:34:04,349 --> 00:34:05,890 conversation was facilitated 942 00:34:06,269 --> 00:34:07,009 from that? 943 00:34:08,349 --> 00:34:10,829 Yeah. So they they supported me the whole 944 00:34:10,829 --> 00:34:11,329 way, 945 00:34:11,710 --> 00:34:12,989 and I I knew it was gonna be 946 00:34:12,989 --> 00:34:14,989 difficult for them. They they have a lot 947 00:34:14,989 --> 00:34:16,530 of shame about it, 948 00:34:16,894 --> 00:34:18,494 a lot of guilt about it, and I 949 00:34:18,494 --> 00:34:19,155 I wish 950 00:34:19,694 --> 00:34:21,454 I understand why, but I as a parent 951 00:34:21,454 --> 00:34:24,034 now, I understand why. But I wish also 952 00:34:24,175 --> 00:34:24,675 that 953 00:34:25,054 --> 00:34:26,034 as their child, 954 00:34:27,054 --> 00:34:28,815 they they can let that go. I've told 955 00:34:28,815 --> 00:34:31,029 them many times that and and I told 956 00:34:31,029 --> 00:34:32,710 them this after, you know, they were in 957 00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:34,949 tears hugging me after watching the movie for 958 00:34:34,949 --> 00:34:35,769 the first time, 959 00:34:36,549 --> 00:34:38,789 just kind of sobbing in my arms. And 960 00:34:38,789 --> 00:34:40,089 I've told them many times, 961 00:34:40,469 --> 00:34:41,529 you were doing 962 00:34:42,994 --> 00:34:43,655 what you 963 00:34:44,114 --> 00:34:45,795 you were doing anything. You were grasping at 964 00:34:45,795 --> 00:34:47,875 straws. You were trying to help because you 965 00:34:47,875 --> 00:34:48,695 knew what 966 00:34:49,155 --> 00:34:51,074 awaited me in the world, because you knew 967 00:34:51,074 --> 00:34:51,735 the stigma. 968 00:34:52,035 --> 00:34:53,315 And I don't have to tell them that 969 00:34:53,315 --> 00:34:54,054 it wasn't 970 00:34:54,755 --> 00:34:56,914 the right choice. They know that now. You 971 00:34:56,914 --> 00:34:59,389 know, they felt that after that experience. 972 00:35:00,170 --> 00:35:00,670 But 973 00:35:00,969 --> 00:35:02,889 their choice came from a place of love, 974 00:35:02,889 --> 00:35:03,389 not 975 00:35:03,929 --> 00:35:04,989 a place of 976 00:35:05,289 --> 00:35:06,670 shame about me, 977 00:35:07,049 --> 00:35:09,469 but a place of fear about 978 00:35:09,929 --> 00:35:11,710 what the world could do to me 979 00:35:12,054 --> 00:35:12,875 growing up. 980 00:35:13,255 --> 00:35:14,954 So there's you know, 981 00:35:15,655 --> 00:35:16,554 that's where 982 00:35:17,494 --> 00:35:19,034 listening in this world 983 00:35:19,894 --> 00:35:21,275 is so important. 984 00:35:21,735 --> 00:35:23,755 Because on the surface, you could look at 985 00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:26,480 someone's actions like that, you know, taking their 986 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,099 child to a faith healer and 987 00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:31,119 see, oh, that's messed up. You know? Why 988 00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:32,639 why would you do that to your child? 989 00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:34,719 And and I can understand and appreciate that 990 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:35,219 perspective. 991 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,380 But in my parents' case, 992 00:35:38,344 --> 00:35:39,085 the intent 993 00:35:39,784 --> 00:35:41,484 was not one of 994 00:35:41,864 --> 00:35:43,324 shame about me, but 995 00:35:44,904 --> 00:35:46,844 of fear about the world. 996 00:35:47,784 --> 00:35:48,284 And 997 00:35:48,984 --> 00:35:51,484 that that's where listening to their story, 998 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:52,820 listening 999 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,500 to others becomes 1000 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,420 critical in in 1001 00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:59,219 getting getting through this world alive 1002 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,140 and and happy. 1003 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,239 Yeah. Tricky. That, isn't it? It is. It 1004 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:04,739 is. 1005 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:06,340 It's very tricky. 1006 00:36:07,404 --> 00:36:08,224 When you 1007 00:36:08,844 --> 00:36:10,684 found out you were having you were having 1008 00:36:10,684 --> 00:36:11,585 your first child 1009 00:36:11,964 --> 00:36:14,864 Mhmm. Did you have thoughts around deafness 1010 00:36:15,244 --> 00:36:17,484 in regards to your child? Did that 1011 00:36:18,045 --> 00:36:19,324 where where did that put you in a 1012 00:36:19,324 --> 00:36:19,824 headspace? 1013 00:36:20,924 --> 00:36:21,984 So for me, 1014 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:22,820 my 1015 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,340 wife was 1016 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,719 a little more concerned about that because she 1017 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,140 was she didn't grow up in that environment. 1018 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,440 She accepts me for who I am and, 1019 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,480 would accept our child if she happened to 1020 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,094 be deaf as well. I was not concerned 1021 00:36:38,155 --> 00:36:39,775 one way or the other because 1022 00:36:40,875 --> 00:36:41,775 I knew that 1023 00:36:42,394 --> 00:36:45,054 if my child turned out to be deaf, 1024 00:36:45,355 --> 00:36:47,355 I would love them. If if they weren't, 1025 00:36:47,355 --> 00:36:49,375 I would love them. But also, 1026 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,019 if they did happen to be deaf, 1027 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,319 if I had had a parent who wore 1028 00:36:56,319 --> 00:36:57,139 hearing aids, 1029 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,819 I wouldn't have maybe perceived the stigma, 1030 00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,859 and I would have had somebody who could 1031 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:04,500 relate. 1032 00:37:04,855 --> 00:37:06,555 I would have had somebody who could 1033 00:37:07,015 --> 00:37:09,675 teach me some things sooner, you know, to 1034 00:37:10,135 --> 00:37:11,434 to get by and maybe 1035 00:37:12,055 --> 00:37:14,934 and I maybe we could learn ASL together 1036 00:37:14,934 --> 00:37:16,375 at the same time. I could be the 1037 00:37:16,375 --> 00:37:16,875 child 1038 00:37:17,255 --> 00:37:18,074 as a parent 1039 00:37:18,819 --> 00:37:21,239 almost like a child with them learning ASL. 1040 00:37:21,619 --> 00:37:22,519 So there 1041 00:37:23,219 --> 00:37:24,900 there was not really any fear on my 1042 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:25,400 part. 1043 00:37:25,859 --> 00:37:27,480 Excitingly, we're expecting 1044 00:37:27,780 --> 00:37:28,679 in February. 1045 00:37:28,980 --> 00:37:31,159 Hi. So we'll see what happens. 1046 00:37:32,019 --> 00:37:34,375 The grass. Boy, a boy this time, and 1047 00:37:34,375 --> 00:37:36,074 so yay. And 1048 00:37:36,375 --> 00:37:38,135 so I I don't have any fear about 1049 00:37:38,135 --> 00:37:41,174 it. But what's amazing is the brazenness of 1050 00:37:41,174 --> 00:37:43,255 some people coming up to us the first 1051 00:37:43,255 --> 00:37:46,074 time she was pregnant saying, aren't you 1052 00:37:47,130 --> 00:37:47,630 worried 1053 00:37:48,089 --> 00:37:50,489 about if your child's going to turn out 1054 00:37:50,489 --> 00:37:51,929 deaf too? You know, they're 1055 00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:54,650 I I get where they're coming from. They're 1056 00:37:54,650 --> 00:37:56,809 coming from a place of probably the same 1057 00:37:56,809 --> 00:37:59,069 place my parents were in, that fear of, 1058 00:37:59,529 --> 00:38:01,210 you know, you want what's best for your 1059 00:38:01,210 --> 00:38:01,710 child. 1060 00:38:03,164 --> 00:38:05,005 But I don't think they've they've realized how 1061 00:38:05,005 --> 00:38:05,664 that sounds. 1062 00:38:06,445 --> 00:38:09,085 Yeah. You know? It it it sounds like 1063 00:38:09,085 --> 00:38:10,625 you you think there's something 1064 00:38:11,485 --> 00:38:13,664 unhappy about the way that I live. 1065 00:38:13,965 --> 00:38:14,465 Sure. 1066 00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:17,860 I am just as unhappy or happy as 1067 00:38:17,860 --> 00:38:19,719 the rest of you. You know? I 1068 00:38:20,019 --> 00:38:21,640 am not hung up about 1069 00:38:22,660 --> 00:38:24,340 being deaf. I don't even think about it 1070 00:38:24,340 --> 00:38:26,840 most of the time unless I'm made aware 1071 00:38:27,619 --> 00:38:28,280 of not 1072 00:38:28,875 --> 00:38:30,795 understanding what somebody says or being in a 1073 00:38:30,795 --> 00:38:31,695 noisy environment. 1074 00:38:32,715 --> 00:38:34,894 That's about it. The good news is 1075 00:38:35,675 --> 00:38:38,474 regardless of whether your children are hearing or 1076 00:38:38,474 --> 00:38:39,215 not hearing, 1077 00:38:39,755 --> 00:38:42,074 you still can do that thing of learning 1078 00:38:42,074 --> 00:38:44,559 ASL with them. Exactly. You don't have to 1079 00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:46,480 wait Exactly. If they're I don't have to 1080 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,559 wait. I don't have to wait. The the 1081 00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:51,440 urgency would be there, you know, to to 1082 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,739 learn it and making time for it would 1083 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,059 be critical with the child that, 1084 00:38:57,735 --> 00:38:59,195 is deaf. Because, I mean, 1085 00:38:59,894 --> 00:39:02,295 if I had been taught the opportunity to 1086 00:39:02,295 --> 00:39:03,115 learn both 1087 00:39:03,735 --> 00:39:05,815 from day one, I could have been a 1088 00:39:05,815 --> 00:39:07,434 part of a bigger world. 1089 00:39:07,815 --> 00:39:09,815 You know? I could have been part of 1090 00:39:09,815 --> 00:39:11,115 the hearing world and 1091 00:39:11,699 --> 00:39:13,480 the capital d deaf community. 1092 00:39:13,780 --> 00:39:14,760 From my perspective, 1093 00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:16,359 a child's life 1094 00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:19,940 a a child's life and world only grows 1095 00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:21,559 bigger when they can learn 1096 00:39:22,099 --> 00:39:24,994 their primary language and ASL is their primary 1097 00:39:24,994 --> 00:39:27,155 language or English is their primary language and 1098 00:39:27,155 --> 00:39:28,215 the other is secondary. 1099 00:39:29,075 --> 00:39:31,474 It's it's something that I've thought about in 1100 00:39:31,474 --> 00:39:32,375 the past, and 1101 00:39:34,434 --> 00:39:35,795 if hearing parents have 1102 00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:39,029 if they have questions about that, that's that's 1103 00:39:39,029 --> 00:39:41,190 what I would say. You know? It's each 1104 00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:41,849 or both 1105 00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:43,369 Yeah. If you can. 1106 00:39:43,909 --> 00:39:46,170 I mean, I'm a big fan of 1107 00:39:46,549 --> 00:39:48,170 teaching kids several languages 1108 00:39:48,789 --> 00:39:51,744 because, again, makes the world smaller. It's really 1109 00:39:51,744 --> 00:39:52,724 good for the brain. 1110 00:39:53,184 --> 00:39:56,385 Yeah. It's better at math and music, and 1111 00:39:56,385 --> 00:39:57,605 all of it is connected. 1112 00:39:58,864 --> 00:39:59,364 Absolutely. 1113 00:39:59,984 --> 00:40:00,484 Absolutely. 1114 00:40:01,425 --> 00:40:04,304 Jordan, you're awesome. I'm so glad that So 1115 00:40:04,304 --> 00:40:06,340 are you, Susan. That I sat next to 1116 00:40:06,340 --> 00:40:08,039 you at the at the 1117 00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:11,219 ceremony. Thank you. Me too. And and and 1118 00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:11,960 thank you 1119 00:40:12,420 --> 00:40:12,920 also 1120 00:40:13,219 --> 00:40:16,500 for the kindness of helping me understand what 1121 00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:17,480 was being said 1122 00:40:18,144 --> 00:40:20,144 at the table because it was a quite 1123 00:40:20,144 --> 00:40:22,224 a quite a noisy award ceremony. I could 1124 00:40:22,224 --> 00:40:22,724 not 1125 00:40:23,105 --> 00:40:25,285 hear half half of what was being said. 1126 00:40:25,505 --> 00:40:26,965 Yeah. Well, me neither. 1127 00:40:27,265 --> 00:40:29,265 And I have I have my hearing. It 1128 00:40:29,265 --> 00:40:32,164 was very loud in there. Yeah. Yeah. 1129 00:40:32,465 --> 00:40:33,364 Loud in there. 1130 00:40:33,769 --> 00:40:35,849 Tell people how they may find you out 1131 00:40:35,849 --> 00:40:37,150 in the world. And 1132 00:40:37,690 --> 00:40:40,109 do you have a time frame for 1133 00:40:40,409 --> 00:40:41,070 the movie 1134 00:40:41,530 --> 00:40:43,449 going to the outside world? As you and 1135 00:40:43,449 --> 00:40:45,449 I both know, films have to go to 1136 00:40:45,449 --> 00:40:46,109 the festivals 1137 00:40:46,409 --> 00:40:46,815 first. 1138 00:40:47,295 --> 00:40:49,775 Yes. I'd be coming to someone's town, so 1139 00:40:49,775 --> 00:40:51,775 always keep an eye out on film festivals. 1140 00:40:51,775 --> 00:40:53,855 But how might people find you and your 1141 00:40:53,855 --> 00:40:54,914 work and all that? 1142 00:40:55,295 --> 00:40:56,835 I have a 1143 00:40:57,214 --> 00:40:58,114 Facebook page, 1144 00:40:58,734 --> 00:40:59,234 called, 1145 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,480 for healing hands, so you can search for 1146 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,179 it there. If you see 1147 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,800 a a little boy on the cover with 1148 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,699 hearing aids that in a classroom setting, that's 1149 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,400 still from the film, so you're probably on 1150 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,494 the right page. You can also email me. 1151 00:41:14,494 --> 00:41:17,394 It's just firstandlastname@atGmail 1152 00:41:17,775 --> 00:41:18,835 or I'm on LinkedIn. 1153 00:41:19,375 --> 00:41:22,675 I'm really not big into social media personally. 1154 00:41:23,055 --> 00:41:25,295 Like, I'm just not active on it, but, 1155 00:41:25,614 --> 00:41:27,699 people can could reach out to me those 1156 00:41:27,699 --> 00:41:29,480 ways, and I'm happy to share 1157 00:41:30,660 --> 00:41:33,140 anything they wanna know. But as far as 1158 00:41:33,140 --> 00:41:35,239 staying in touch with the film and and 1159 00:41:35,619 --> 00:41:38,440 how that's going, that Facebook page will 1160 00:41:39,315 --> 00:41:41,875 probably be the place to to go. Yeah. 1161 00:41:41,875 --> 00:41:44,135 And I'll put links on Hey Human podcast 1162 00:41:44,195 --> 00:41:46,195 links page to get there easy so you 1163 00:41:46,195 --> 00:41:48,994 don't have to go digging around Facebook, which 1164 00:41:48,994 --> 00:41:49,894 is its own 1165 00:41:51,474 --> 00:41:51,974 world. 1166 00:41:53,010 --> 00:41:54,390 Yes. Its own world. 1167 00:41:55,329 --> 00:41:57,170 Well, then thank you so much. This has 1168 00:41:57,170 --> 00:41:59,409 been great. Thank you. It's been an honor, 1169 00:41:59,409 --> 00:42:01,489 and please stay in touch. It's it's lovely 1170 00:42:01,489 --> 00:42:03,170 to know you, Susan, and thank you for 1171 00:42:03,170 --> 00:42:03,989 what you do. 1172 00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:07,094 Oh, well, thank you. And absolutely. And I 1173 00:42:07,094 --> 00:42:08,554 loved Waco. So 1174 00:42:09,014 --> 00:42:09,335 Oh, 1175 00:42:09,974 --> 00:42:12,054 come back. Please do. What a great town. 1176 00:42:12,054 --> 00:42:14,135 The food was great. The people were great. 1177 00:42:14,135 --> 00:42:16,215 It was fun walking around. It had all 1178 00:42:16,215 --> 00:42:18,875 that history and Yeah. A cool town. 1179 00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:21,659 Absolutely. A shout out to Waco is always 1180 00:42:21,659 --> 00:42:24,539 appreciated because if you're just driving past Waco 1181 00:42:24,539 --> 00:42:27,659 on on the interstate, it doesn't look like 1182 00:42:27,659 --> 00:42:29,900 much. You really have to get off the 1183 00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:32,699 interstate to experience what wake Waco really is. 1184 00:42:32,699 --> 00:42:34,320 It's it's a lovely town. 1185 00:42:34,824 --> 00:42:37,545 Lots of, antique stores. I I had a 1186 00:42:37,545 --> 00:42:39,864 ball. I walked around a lot by myself, 1187 00:42:39,864 --> 00:42:41,704 and I had a really good time. And 1188 00:42:41,704 --> 00:42:42,364 the food, 1189 00:42:43,065 --> 00:42:45,244 every place I ate was awesome. 1190 00:42:45,704 --> 00:42:47,965 Yeah. Waco is big into restaurants. 1191 00:42:48,505 --> 00:42:50,570 We have a lot of them, and they're 1192 00:42:50,570 --> 00:42:51,710 often very good. 1193 00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:55,369 Right. Jordan, thank you, and thank you for 1194 00:42:55,369 --> 00:42:56,349 listening, everybody. 1195 00:42:57,130 --> 00:42:58,349 Bye. Bye. 1196 00:43:00,969 --> 00:43:03,550 Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human podcast 1197 00:43:03,610 --> 00:43:04,269 on iTunes 1198 00:43:04,570 --> 00:43:06,985 or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks. 1199 00:43:16,724 --> 00:43:17,224 Bye.