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Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here.

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Thanks for listening to another episode

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of Hey, Human podcast.

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This is episode 444,

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and my guest is Austin Mao.

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Austin is the cofounder of Ceremonia, a nonprofit

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antheogenic

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church in Colorado.

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I had to say that slowly so I

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got it right. As a leader in legal

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and safe psilocybin

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mushroom and ayahuasca

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retreats, Ceremonia uses a synthesis of science and

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shamanism

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in partnership with plant medicine to guide people

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in spiritual, mental,

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and physical well-being.

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We had a great conversation. Austin's super fascinating,

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and I'm excited for you to hear this

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one. Check out Hey Human Podcast for links

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and to learn more about my guests in

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the show. Hey Human Podcast is on YouTube

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under official Susan Ruth. I'm on Patreon at

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susan ruthism.

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My TikTok and Instagram is susan ruthism.

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Check out susan ruth dot com to learn

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more about me and my other artistic endeavors,

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and find my albums on Spotify, Apple Music,

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Amazon Music, wherever you get your music.

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Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human podcast

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on Apple, iHeart, and Spotify podcasts, or wherever

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you get your podcasts.

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Thank you for listening. Be well. Be kind.

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Be love.

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Here we go.

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Austin Mao, welcome to Hey Human.

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Hey, Susan. Thank you. I'm gonna start asking

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where you're from originally and how growing up

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shaped you into the path that you're on

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now. So I'm originally from Los Angeles or

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a suburb from LA. My parents divorced when

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I was less than one years old,

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and I grew up primarily with my mom.

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You know? So I I run retreats, and

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I'm sure we're gonna go in go into

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that. We run psychedelic retreats. One of the

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questions

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that we often post people on the first

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night,

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just as a means of introduction is, like,

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what is the early childhood memory that most

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defines who you are today, or maybe most

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impacted who you are today?

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For me, there's a memory of when I

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was around eight years old, and my mom

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was broken down on the floor sobbing.

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And at that age, I had no idea

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why she was crying, only that she was

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in pain, and

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it was my responsibility

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to save her from that pain. And so

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I sang to her as a kid, trying

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to console her. And I think in that

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moment,

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there was this savior complex that was born

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in me, you know, particularly directed towards the

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feminine,

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like wanting to

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help people,

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in my life.

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But

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that was very much in the shadow for

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so much of my life. And where I,

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you know, where I gave that energy

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was from a place of altruism, you know,

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from self sacrifice,

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sacrificing my energy. Martyrdom

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type? Maybe you could, you could say a

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little bit of that. But ultimately, you know,

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there's this, this term in psychology called parentification.

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And it's this idea of, of that the

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child now has to take care of the

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parents. And, and that's really how I grew

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up. My father

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didn't have a

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high school education.

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He was like a poker dealer in a

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casino in Los Angeles, you know?

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And I used to think that he loved

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money more than me. And in fact, the

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way that he would express his love to

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me is by giving me money as a

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kid.

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I grew up with

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this need to, like, earn my father's love,

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while my mom raised me, giving me so

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much

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blessings and love, and I could do no

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wrong, and it was just complete positive reinforcement.

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So fast forward

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to my adult life, became a multi time

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entrepreneur,

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really became

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good at,

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not working,

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which meant that I

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was making, you know, a high 6 figure

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income working four hours a week from anywhere

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in the world, culminating in having the largest

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Airbnb company in Las Vegas. We're hosting 2,000

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guests a month There were portfolio of houses

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that I owned. And then I found plant

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medicine.

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Recently, I was in a speaker training because

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I'd give a TED talk,

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and we were asked to tell stories of

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who we were before, who we are now,

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etcetera. What I learned there is that I

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couldn't really even use the stories

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from before I tried medicine

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in a ceremonial context, psychedelics and ceremonial context,

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because I had changed so fundamentally

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that that it wasn't like I was writing

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a new chapter of my life. It was

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a it was like a complete sequel to

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who I was.

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Your question is, you know, how did my

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formative years make me who I am? It

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all kind of got wrapped up in what

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I do now, which is to say

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that I, you know, now I am also

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devoting my life to

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helping people,

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but from a place of, I think, greater

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mindfulness and skillfulness

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than I used to, you know, from a

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place of self sacrifice and burning out now

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and doing it in a more, I think,

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considerate and

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and tactful way. When you were doing the

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Airbnbs

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and had that empire,

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which you still may have that empire, but

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back then, were you happy?

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Or were you feeling like

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there was something missing?

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You know, it's funny.

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There's a spiritual teacher that you may know

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of, Ram Dass. Right? Love me, sir Ram

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Dass.

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Love you, sir Ram Dass. Exactly.

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And he has this line that says, you

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know, who are you in the privacy of

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your own heart? And someone else that kinda

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came up with him, Joseph Goldstein,

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gives the line, who are you when you're

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sitting on your toilet? Right? Like, what are

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your most private thoughts during that time? So

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from the outside looking in, I was living

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a Instagram life. I was humble bragging on

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Facebook and Instagram, the photos of cars and

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houses and travel and blah blah blah.

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But on the inside, I was rudderless.

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I did not have direction in my life.

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There's this book that we have people read

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when they come through Ceremonia, called The Second

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Mountain,

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and

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the author David Brooks distinguishes between happiness and

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joy. Happiness is this fleeting, like, pop a

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bottle of champagne, win you an award, do

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something good.

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Great. You're happy for a moment,

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but joy is something deep and pervasive.

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Right? It's something that

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lasts,

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much longer than the moment.

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And so I would say that I had

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many moments of happiness. And in fact, what

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I was doing was chasing happiness by going

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to exotic destinations

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and

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whatnot. But I didn't have joy in my

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life.

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I didn't have purpose.

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I didn't have values systems, and I didn't

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have relationships

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that nourished me. I often think of plant

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medicine as bringing us back to a place

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of remembering. I myself have not done Ayahuasca.

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I've done mushrooms maybe

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two or three times. It worked once. The

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other two times, everything just got real sparkly.

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But I haven't done it in the sort

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of context of

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purpose

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other than

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finding

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a moment of joy.

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But I do believe that

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plant medicine, considering the source of it, it's

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facilitating

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a way back to the truth of who

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we are instead of the idea of who

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we are. Yeah. Totally. I, you know, I

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liken it to the feeling

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that that maybe anyone has felt here,

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of feeling the most alive you've ever felt.

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So think like

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falling in love for the first time, or

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skiing down a mountain, or

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solving that problem that's been or getting the

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big paycheck or something like that. The most

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alive you've ever felt, combined

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with the feeling of being home.

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Coming home

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with your dog wagging its tail after a

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long trip, and that feeling of, like,

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ah, here I

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am. And that's such a they're, like, polarized.

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Right? Like, one is has this extraordinarily exuberant

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energy and another has this very relaxed energy.

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But imagine both of those combined.

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That's the feeling that people often feel

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or describe feeling when they come through

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this experience.

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And it goes to show you, it provides

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what we call,

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again in psychology,

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an index experience. It's like, Oh,

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now I know what that feels like. Like,

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I know that's possible.

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Then you can start aiming your life like

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a compass towards that.

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Did you experience

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plant medicine

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first

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and have it give you an epiphany

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and then move into these spaces? Or did

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you think, oh, this is an interesting thing

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to do, this sort of ceremonial type scenario?

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And then how did those two things

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meet? In order did you have to go

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through your own healing first or were you

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healing along the way? I guess is more

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specific?

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My consciousness journey, if I were to pinpoint

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when it began,

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it was about eight years ago when

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I heard that my father was diagnosed with

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cancer. Mhmm. And I spent the last his

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last six months of his life bedside with

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him. In that time,

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you know, I had been estranged from him.

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I would see him maybe once a year,

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and we whenever we would talk, maybe once

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every month or two months

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over

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Skype or over FaceTime,

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it'd be a quick, hello, how are you

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doing, what'd you eat for dinner,

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how's life, okay, great. You know, a super

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short call. And I imagine that many of

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your listeners may have relationships with their parents

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that

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can be similar, you know. That experience taught

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me something because

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he learned

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what is truly valuable in life, that it's

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not the money that he hoarded.

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It's not

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the the property. It's the

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it's the love, the connection,

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the experiences

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00:09:44,455 --> 00:09:44,955
that

276
00:09:45,735 --> 00:09:46,875
we have in life.

277
00:09:47,975 --> 00:09:49,975
So after he passed, you know, I went

278
00:09:49,975 --> 00:09:52,934
through a deep grieving process, and it wasn't

279
00:09:52,934 --> 00:09:53,434
until

280
00:09:53,949 --> 00:09:55,329
four years after that

281
00:09:55,870 --> 00:09:57,649
that I had my first

282
00:09:58,350 --> 00:10:00,190
ceremony experience. In that case, it was with

283
00:10:00,190 --> 00:10:00,690
Ayahuasca.

284
00:10:01,549 --> 00:10:02,049
Now,

285
00:10:02,990 --> 00:10:04,209
when I sat with Ayahuasca,

286
00:10:04,990 --> 00:10:07,785
I had already had over a hundred psychedelic

287
00:10:07,845 --> 00:10:09,865
experiences, many years of Burning Man,

288
00:10:10,325 --> 00:10:10,825
festivals,

289
00:10:11,285 --> 00:10:13,445
camping trips, etc. I went in with a

290
00:10:13,445 --> 00:10:15,285
chip on my shoulder thinking, what could this

291
00:10:15,285 --> 00:10:17,545
possibly teach me that I haven't already seen?

292
00:10:18,404 --> 00:10:20,139
And I'll share with you because I I

293
00:10:20,139 --> 00:10:21,580
just heard you say that you you had

294
00:10:21,580 --> 00:10:24,940
some experiences, and one worked, one didn't. Something

295
00:10:24,940 --> 00:10:27,340
like twelve percent of America uses psychedelics a

296
00:10:27,340 --> 00:10:29,200
year. A lot of people don't realize that.

297
00:10:29,259 --> 00:10:31,040
It's it's a very staggering number.

298
00:10:31,580 --> 00:10:34,160
And for those that have used a psychedelic,

299
00:10:34,944 --> 00:10:36,704
whether that be in college or whether that

300
00:10:36,704 --> 00:10:38,725
be therapeutically, whatever it is,

301
00:10:39,264 --> 00:10:39,764
the

302
00:10:40,384 --> 00:10:43,365
gap between normal waking consciousness and

303
00:10:44,144 --> 00:10:46,225
what you experience in a psychedelic is so

304
00:10:46,225 --> 00:10:46,725
big

305
00:10:47,059 --> 00:10:48,600
that it's already called ineffable,

306
00:10:49,299 --> 00:10:51,620
which means I literally couldn't explain to you

307
00:10:51,620 --> 00:10:53,539
in words in a way that you could

308
00:10:53,539 --> 00:10:54,919
understand it. Right?

309
00:10:56,179 --> 00:10:57,320
The gap between

310
00:10:58,019 --> 00:10:58,519
recreational

311
00:10:59,634 --> 00:11:02,054
or solo use of psychedelics and a guided

312
00:11:02,514 --> 00:11:05,174
or therapeutic or ceremonial container

313
00:11:05,954 --> 00:11:06,454
is

314
00:11:06,914 --> 00:11:08,134
equally as big,

315
00:11:09,154 --> 00:11:11,250
and I had no idea about that.

316
00:11:12,049 --> 00:11:14,070
And so my first ayahuasca experience,

317
00:11:14,929 --> 00:11:17,570
you know, in the first ceremony out of

318
00:11:17,570 --> 00:11:18,070
three,

319
00:11:18,769 --> 00:11:19,269
I

320
00:11:19,809 --> 00:11:22,450
felt embraced by my mother and felt the

321
00:11:22,450 --> 00:11:25,304
warmth of her love to a capacity that

322
00:11:25,304 --> 00:11:27,245
I had never remembered feeling

323
00:11:27,784 --> 00:11:29,004
before. And it felt

324
00:11:30,105 --> 00:11:30,845
like divine.

325
00:11:31,384 --> 00:11:32,845
Then I had a vision

326
00:11:33,464 --> 00:11:34,684
of introducing

327
00:11:35,304 --> 00:11:37,464
my then wife to my father who had

328
00:11:37,464 --> 00:11:38,924
passed years prior.

329
00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,120
And I didn't even know I was missing

330
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:42,019
that in my life.

331
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:43,220
Because,

332
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:44,179
wow,

333
00:11:44,639 --> 00:11:45,379
you know, like,

334
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,240
in the grieving process, of course it grieved

335
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,399
the memories that we had, I didn't know

336
00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:51,139
to grieve

337
00:11:52,245 --> 00:11:52,985
the unopened

338
00:11:53,365 --> 00:11:53,865
possibilities

339
00:11:54,565 --> 00:11:55,865
of the future. Right?

340
00:11:57,125 --> 00:11:58,565
So I came out of that ceremony and

341
00:11:58,565 --> 00:12:00,644
I was like, hallelujah, I am healed, I'm

342
00:12:00,644 --> 00:12:02,985
ready to go home, where's my Uber?

343
00:12:04,565 --> 00:12:05,065
But

344
00:12:05,450 --> 00:12:06,830
there were still two more ceremonies.

345
00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:09,950
The next morning, we did a workshop,

346
00:12:10,409 --> 00:12:10,909
and

347
00:12:11,289 --> 00:12:13,370
we were asked to recount an early childhood

348
00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:15,450
memory, very much like you just asked me.

349
00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:17,129
And I could barely pick out anything. It

350
00:12:17,129 --> 00:12:18,269
was a complete haze.

351
00:12:18,815 --> 00:12:20,735
So I went into that ceremony with the

352
00:12:20,735 --> 00:12:22,514
intention of investigating my memories,

353
00:12:23,134 --> 00:12:24,975
and I took a very large dose, in

354
00:12:24,975 --> 00:12:25,634
this case,

355
00:12:26,014 --> 00:12:28,174
and I started reliving my memories in vivid

356
00:12:28,174 --> 00:12:30,335
detail going back and back in time. I

357
00:12:30,335 --> 00:12:32,495
mean, I could remember turning my locker combination

358
00:12:32,495 --> 00:12:34,790
in high school, like flipping pages in the

359
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:37,830
book and reading passages. Like, you hear about

360
00:12:37,830 --> 00:12:40,330
photographic memory or you see movies of,

361
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:43,110
a beautiful mind or something like that. Right?

362
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:45,850
Like, that was me living that experience.

363
00:12:46,605 --> 00:12:47,725
And I went back and back and back

364
00:12:47,725 --> 00:12:49,565
in time until I was a child under

365
00:12:49,565 --> 00:12:50,065
sheets,

366
00:12:50,845 --> 00:12:52,065
and then I felt horny.

367
00:12:52,924 --> 00:12:54,524
I popped up on my yoga mat in

368
00:12:54,524 --> 00:12:57,345
the middle of the jungle. There's 49 other,

369
00:12:57,565 --> 00:13:00,625
you know, entrepreneurs and founders next to me.

370
00:13:01,039 --> 00:13:02,480
And I'm like, what the heck could this

371
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,879
be? And when I went back in, I

372
00:13:04,879 --> 00:13:06,819
realized that I was sexually touched

373
00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:08,579
by my mother's boyfriend

374
00:13:09,199 --> 00:13:11,059
when I was four years old.

375
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,600
And I had no idea. My mind had

376
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,524
completely repressed it. And my mind threw the

377
00:13:16,524 --> 00:13:17,745
baby out with the bathwater

378
00:13:18,365 --> 00:13:18,865
because

379
00:13:19,404 --> 00:13:20,784
it repressed all memory.

380
00:13:21,485 --> 00:13:23,404
So then I started going forward in time

381
00:13:23,404 --> 00:13:24,304
in this vision

382
00:13:24,845 --> 00:13:26,945
with the new knowledge of not only

383
00:13:28,779 --> 00:13:30,639
the sexual trauma, but also

384
00:13:31,740 --> 00:13:34,139
the knowledge that my mind would repress long

385
00:13:34,139 --> 00:13:34,879
term memory,

386
00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:38,940
and everything started making sense. Like I had

387
00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:41,554
sexual confusion as a kid, a bully as

388
00:13:41,554 --> 00:13:43,174
a kid, you know, as a teenager.

389
00:13:44,914 --> 00:13:46,615
Just my relationship with the feminine

390
00:13:46,995 --> 00:13:50,134
and and and sexuality was was so marred,

391
00:13:50,195 --> 00:13:51,414
so so complex.

392
00:13:52,914 --> 00:13:55,475
And I couldn't hold on to relationships because

393
00:13:55,634 --> 00:13:57,929
or even hobbies because I I just would

394
00:13:57,929 --> 00:13:58,750
simply forget

395
00:13:59,210 --> 00:14:01,370
the beautiful memories that I would create within

396
00:14:01,370 --> 00:14:01,870
them.

397
00:14:02,809 --> 00:14:04,330
All the way to the present moment where

398
00:14:04,330 --> 00:14:06,210
I'm lying on this mat in the middle

399
00:14:06,210 --> 00:14:08,090
of the jungle, and I woke out of

400
00:14:08,090 --> 00:14:09,550
it with tears in my eyes,

401
00:14:09,865 --> 00:14:11,644
and I told the facilitator

402
00:14:12,825 --> 00:14:14,264
about this, and she says, Oh my God,

403
00:14:14,264 --> 00:14:16,345
I'm so sorry. And I said, No, no,

404
00:14:16,345 --> 00:14:17,865
no, you don't understand. I feel like I

405
00:14:17,865 --> 00:14:19,004
was cured of Alzheimer's.

406
00:14:20,745 --> 00:14:21,404
So that

407
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:22,860
ceremony

408
00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:25,799
heralded the beginning of the rest of my

409
00:14:25,799 --> 00:14:27,559
life, what I call the renaissance of my

410
00:14:27,559 --> 00:14:29,240
life. That was about four and a half

411
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:29,899
years ago.

412
00:14:30,439 --> 00:14:31,579
And since that time,

413
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:33,899
I've been on

414
00:14:34,514 --> 00:14:35,254
an accelerated

415
00:14:35,555 --> 00:14:37,415
and extraordinary healing path.

416
00:14:38,355 --> 00:14:41,654
Going deeper and deeper into myself. And then

417
00:14:42,274 --> 00:14:44,835
being in service, you know? If you look

418
00:14:44,835 --> 00:14:46,535
at every major spiritual tradition,

419
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:50,720
they agree on certain things, whether it's Buddhism

420
00:14:51,019 --> 00:14:54,240
or Christianity or Hinduism or Islam,

421
00:14:54,779 --> 00:14:56,459
one of the things they agree on is

422
00:14:56,459 --> 00:14:57,279
that service

423
00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:00,000
is a path to

424
00:15:01,294 --> 00:15:02,514
a spiritual experience,

425
00:15:03,054 --> 00:15:03,715
the experience

426
00:15:04,095 --> 00:15:07,375
of self, of God. And where my healing

427
00:15:07,375 --> 00:15:09,134
path has taken me is to be deeply

428
00:15:09,134 --> 00:15:11,455
in service to the same path of healing

429
00:15:11,455 --> 00:15:13,315
that I took to find myself.

430
00:15:14,419 --> 00:15:16,419
And so my story that I'm sharing with

431
00:15:16,419 --> 00:15:17,080
you now,

432
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:18,279
you know,

433
00:15:18,580 --> 00:15:19,879
I've shared on stage,

434
00:15:20,259 --> 00:15:21,480
to thousands of people,

435
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:23,639
I've shared on the TED stage,

436
00:15:24,259 --> 00:15:25,480
but it's not unique.

437
00:15:26,274 --> 00:15:29,335
Because now I facilitated more than 500 individuals,

438
00:15:29,955 --> 00:15:31,095
and I can tell you,

439
00:15:31,794 --> 00:15:32,294
like,

440
00:15:33,235 --> 00:15:35,154
we have a ninety six percent rate of

441
00:15:35,154 --> 00:15:37,335
people saying it's the most life changing experience

442
00:15:37,889 --> 00:15:39,430
of their of their life.

443
00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:43,490
And what I've been witness to and what

444
00:15:43,490 --> 00:15:43,990
I've

445
00:15:44,370 --> 00:15:46,930
what I've had the blessing of of being

446
00:15:46,930 --> 00:15:48,230
able to hold people through

447
00:15:48,769 --> 00:15:51,190
is their version of this too.

448
00:15:52,245 --> 00:15:54,024
Yeah. So my healing journey

449
00:15:56,084 --> 00:15:59,684
started back then. It continues now, and it

450
00:15:59,684 --> 00:16:02,404
also cascades into the healing that I get

451
00:16:02,404 --> 00:16:04,245
to be in support of for so many

452
00:16:04,245 --> 00:16:04,745
people.

453
00:16:05,339 --> 00:16:06,879
Is your mom still with us?

454
00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:09,759
Mhmm. Yeah. She actually came to retreat

455
00:16:10,459 --> 00:16:11,279
last year,

456
00:16:11,659 --> 00:16:12,159
and

457
00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:13,679
through psilocybin,

458
00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:16,299
she was able to kick twenty five years

459
00:16:16,299 --> 00:16:18,079
of depression. She was on antidepressants

460
00:16:18,379 --> 00:16:19,919
for twenty five years,

461
00:16:21,715 --> 00:16:23,254
and and no longer takes them.

462
00:16:24,035 --> 00:16:26,754
When you come to a realization like the

463
00:16:26,754 --> 00:16:29,095
one you had from four years old,

464
00:16:29,795 --> 00:16:30,855
did you feel

465
00:16:31,235 --> 00:16:33,715
like you needed to talk to your mom

466
00:16:33,715 --> 00:16:35,769
about it at all? Or was it, were

467
00:16:35,769 --> 00:16:38,009
you able to process it in, out, and

468
00:16:38,009 --> 00:16:38,509
through

469
00:16:39,049 --> 00:16:39,549
without

470
00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:41,629
going back to that?

471
00:16:42,250 --> 00:16:43,610
First, I'll share my my

472
00:16:44,250 --> 00:16:45,610
what happened for me, and then I'll share

473
00:16:45,610 --> 00:16:47,710
what what often happens for people. You know?

474
00:16:48,075 --> 00:16:48,575
For

475
00:16:49,035 --> 00:16:49,855
me, I

476
00:16:50,795 --> 00:16:53,134
told my mom, she initially met it

477
00:16:53,754 --> 00:16:54,415
with criticism,

478
00:16:55,035 --> 00:16:57,115
and some anger, which I don't fault her

479
00:16:57,115 --> 00:16:57,774
for because

480
00:16:58,554 --> 00:17:00,815
underneath that anger was a lot of guilt.

481
00:17:00,955 --> 00:17:03,049
I'm sure she blamed herself for that, even

482
00:17:03,049 --> 00:17:04,589
though that's not at all her fault.

483
00:17:04,890 --> 00:17:07,210
And I think that also triggered something in

484
00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:09,230
her, because my belief

485
00:17:09,529 --> 00:17:10,190
is that

486
00:17:10,730 --> 00:17:13,069
this runs through our family. It's ancestral,

487
00:17:13,769 --> 00:17:15,609
as is often the case with any kind

488
00:17:15,609 --> 00:17:17,470
of trauma people have.

489
00:17:18,044 --> 00:17:20,144
I went through a process of integrating this,

490
00:17:20,764 --> 00:17:22,924
but where it began, which was really interesting,

491
00:17:22,924 --> 00:17:24,204
a lot of people think like, Oh, you

492
00:17:24,204 --> 00:17:25,825
come to a realization like this,

493
00:17:26,125 --> 00:17:27,565
this has got to mess you up all

494
00:17:27,565 --> 00:17:29,264
sorts of ways. Or

495
00:17:30,309 --> 00:17:32,150
man, how come you're not so pissed off

496
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:32,970
at that guy?

497
00:17:33,269 --> 00:17:35,109
Who is still alive. It's because as soon

498
00:17:35,109 --> 00:17:37,289
as I realized it, I experienced an extraordinary

499
00:17:37,349 --> 00:17:39,589
amount of gravity. And I was so grateful

500
00:17:39,589 --> 00:17:40,089
because

501
00:17:41,589 --> 00:17:43,750
the mere knowledge of it filled in the

502
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:45,130
gaps of who I am.

503
00:17:45,704 --> 00:17:47,484
The understanding of who I am.

504
00:17:48,585 --> 00:17:50,585
And so we like to say, all love

505
00:17:50,585 --> 00:17:52,825
begins with self love. And it's really easy

506
00:17:52,825 --> 00:17:53,484
to go

507
00:17:54,424 --> 00:17:56,505
to healers, and they're just like, just love

508
00:17:56,505 --> 00:17:57,484
yourself, bro.

509
00:17:57,785 --> 00:17:58,845
And you're like, but how?

510
00:18:00,679 --> 00:18:01,339
And really,

511
00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:02,940
where love begins,

512
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:03,980
and again

513
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,259
this is something else that many spiritual traditions

514
00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:08,059
agree with,

515
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:09,500
is where love begins

516
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,460
is through the experience of the present moment.

517
00:18:13,174 --> 00:18:15,734
Of being here what Ram Dass calls being

518
00:18:15,734 --> 00:18:18,295
here now. And experiencing this now in all

519
00:18:18,295 --> 00:18:18,954
of its

520
00:18:19,494 --> 00:18:19,994
infinite

521
00:18:20,295 --> 00:18:21,674
depth and glory.

522
00:18:22,295 --> 00:18:24,714
And because I was experiencing that moment

523
00:18:25,174 --> 00:18:25,674
now

524
00:18:26,059 --> 00:18:29,179
in the jungle, and experiencing myself in such

525
00:18:29,179 --> 00:18:31,039
capacity and so much more understanding,

526
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:34,460
I was filled with gratitude at everything that

527
00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:36,059
ever happened in my life to lead me

528
00:18:36,059 --> 00:18:36,799
to that moment

529
00:18:37,259 --> 00:18:38,000
of revelation.

530
00:18:38,845 --> 00:18:41,005
Including all the stumbles, including all the falls,

531
00:18:41,005 --> 00:18:43,424
including all the betrayals, including all the hurt.

532
00:18:44,204 --> 00:18:46,044
Like, all of it led me to who

533
00:18:46,044 --> 00:18:47,184
I was at that moment.

534
00:18:47,724 --> 00:18:49,005
And all of it led me to who

535
00:18:49,005 --> 00:18:50,764
I am right in this moment talking to

536
00:18:50,764 --> 00:18:51,424
you now.

537
00:18:51,769 --> 00:18:53,690
What happens for a lot of people is

538
00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:56,089
they go through a process of integration. Integration,

539
00:18:56,089 --> 00:18:57,609
we say, is like the most important part

540
00:18:57,609 --> 00:18:59,309
of this work because you can have this

541
00:18:59,690 --> 00:19:00,190
extraordinary

542
00:19:00,730 --> 00:19:03,069
helicopter ride to the mountaintop of consciousness,

543
00:19:03,984 --> 00:19:05,424
but if you come back to life and

544
00:19:05,424 --> 00:19:07,825
you're still an asshole, what's it all for?

545
00:19:07,825 --> 00:19:08,325
Right?

546
00:19:08,625 --> 00:19:10,244
And so where integration

547
00:19:11,265 --> 00:19:12,325
happens is

548
00:19:12,784 --> 00:19:14,865
that's where the rubber meets the road. Like,

549
00:19:14,865 --> 00:19:15,924
how do we bring

550
00:19:16,750 --> 00:19:17,809
this insight,

551
00:19:18,109 --> 00:19:20,049
the the felt sense of,

552
00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:23,630
what some many people describe as enlightenment or

553
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:25,970
deep amounts of peace and love and harmony?

554
00:19:26,269 --> 00:19:27,710
How do we bring that back to life

555
00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:28,450
where we're,

556
00:19:28,855 --> 00:19:30,534
you know, on Zoom calls or working on

557
00:19:30,534 --> 00:19:33,274
a cubicle or, you know, having deadlines

558
00:19:33,694 --> 00:19:34,194
and

559
00:19:34,615 --> 00:19:35,115
whatnot,

560
00:19:36,054 --> 00:19:37,815
or sitting in traffic. Like, how do we

561
00:19:37,815 --> 00:19:38,794
embody that?

562
00:19:39,335 --> 00:19:40,794
And that's a process.

563
00:19:41,179 --> 00:19:44,240
And that's why there's such an extraordinary difference

564
00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:47,339
between doing psychedelic work or doing transformational work,

565
00:19:47,339 --> 00:19:48,640
it doesn't have to be with psychedelics,

566
00:19:49,099 --> 00:19:51,500
attempting to do that by oneself versus having

567
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:53,759
some level of guidance through the process,

568
00:19:54,619 --> 00:19:56,000
and curriculum and structure.

569
00:19:56,664 --> 00:19:59,384
Because this stuff is hard, you know? We're

570
00:19:59,384 --> 00:20:00,365
not just rewiring

571
00:20:01,545 --> 00:20:03,884
our own neural pathways, we're remapping

572
00:20:05,144 --> 00:20:05,644
generations

573
00:20:06,345 --> 00:20:07,085
of patterning

574
00:20:07,464 --> 00:20:09,384
that we've gotten from our parents and their

575
00:20:09,384 --> 00:20:11,910
parents and their parents' parents, you know? And

576
00:20:11,910 --> 00:20:12,570
I think ceremony

577
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:16,470
is integral to that because it puts the

578
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:16,970
sacredness

579
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:19,210
around it. It gives it a gravitas.

580
00:20:19,910 --> 00:20:21,930
I did a cacao ceremony

581
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:24,009
a few months back,

582
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:24,970
and

583
00:20:26,394 --> 00:20:27,674
it came up at the beginning of the

584
00:20:27,674 --> 00:20:29,275
ceremony that it was gonna be about mother

585
00:20:29,275 --> 00:20:29,775
wound.

586
00:20:30,154 --> 00:20:32,734
And I too believe that ancestral trauma,

587
00:20:33,115 --> 00:20:35,115
especially through the lineage of the mother, is

588
00:20:35,115 --> 00:20:35,615
very

589
00:20:35,914 --> 00:20:36,894
much a thing.

590
00:20:37,434 --> 00:20:37,934
And

591
00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:39,679
it was an

592
00:20:39,980 --> 00:20:40,480
incredible

593
00:20:40,859 --> 00:20:41,960
experience. It

594
00:20:42,299 --> 00:20:43,980
all day long. I didn't know how long

595
00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:45,099
it was gonna take. I went in with

596
00:20:45,099 --> 00:20:46,079
zero expectation.

597
00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:49,339
Got there about 03:00, ended up leaving around

598
00:20:49,339 --> 00:20:49,839
midnight.

599
00:20:50,795 --> 00:20:52,494
It was just me and the facilitator.

600
00:20:53,434 --> 00:20:53,934
And

601
00:20:55,355 --> 00:20:57,914
it was so powerful, and I felt so

602
00:20:57,914 --> 00:21:00,315
released from a lot of I I came

603
00:21:00,315 --> 00:21:02,654
to some realizations. I felt very released.

604
00:21:03,369 --> 00:21:04,190
And weirdly,

605
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:06,970
the next day, my mom called. She and

606
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:07,950
I have historically,

607
00:21:08,890 --> 00:21:11,849
you know, a tenuous relationship and such. But

608
00:21:11,849 --> 00:21:13,130
she called me the next day, and it

609
00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:15,710
was like she was a totally different person

610
00:21:15,929 --> 00:21:16,669
with me.

611
00:21:17,765 --> 00:21:20,505
And I thought, is it because I'm different?

612
00:21:20,884 --> 00:21:23,365
Or did that work Mhmm. Travel through this?

613
00:21:23,365 --> 00:21:25,444
See, this gives me shivers to travel. And

614
00:21:25,444 --> 00:21:27,125
I know it sounds woo woo and all

615
00:21:27,125 --> 00:21:29,765
of that, but that it traveled through my

616
00:21:29,765 --> 00:21:30,265
DNA.

617
00:21:30,970 --> 00:21:33,370
And because I'm of her and she's of

618
00:21:33,370 --> 00:21:34,970
her mother and all that, did it go

619
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:36,509
on through the whole

620
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:37,710
lineage,

621
00:21:39,370 --> 00:21:40,990
which I love to think it did.

622
00:21:41,769 --> 00:21:42,509
So powerful.

623
00:21:43,464 --> 00:21:44,684
Yeah. You know, this

624
00:21:45,625 --> 00:21:46,444
we're still

625
00:21:47,065 --> 00:21:48,284
trying to understand

626
00:21:48,904 --> 00:21:51,544
what's happening here. I was just on, Richard

627
00:21:51,544 --> 00:21:54,444
Branson's island for his first Psychedelic Summit,

628
00:21:55,065 --> 00:21:57,250
and it was gathered scientists,

629
00:21:57,630 --> 00:21:58,130
advocates,

630
00:21:58,750 --> 00:22:02,429
funders, and then ceremonial. We're now one of

631
00:22:02,429 --> 00:22:04,049
the leading institutions in The US.

632
00:22:04,829 --> 00:22:06,210
We represented facilitators.

633
00:22:07,069 --> 00:22:09,649
And so lots of presentations on the science,

634
00:22:10,475 --> 00:22:11,215
the neuroreceptors

635
00:22:11,595 --> 00:22:14,174
that are hit, critical periods of learning,

636
00:22:14,634 --> 00:22:16,475
you know, how it works with addiction, so

637
00:22:16,475 --> 00:22:18,174
on and so forth. And then the advocates

638
00:22:18,234 --> 00:22:20,654
talking about getting access to veterans

639
00:22:21,035 --> 00:22:21,695
and whatnot.

640
00:22:22,349 --> 00:22:24,690
But what is often missed in the conversation,

641
00:22:26,029 --> 00:22:26,529
with

642
00:22:27,230 --> 00:22:29,410
the very left brain approach,

643
00:22:30,029 --> 00:22:32,450
is this mystical spiritual domain

644
00:22:33,150 --> 00:22:34,125
that we have

645
00:22:34,684 --> 00:22:35,585
no idea

646
00:22:35,964 --> 00:22:37,105
what's actually happening.

647
00:22:38,285 --> 00:22:39,644
And part of the reason why it's missed

648
00:22:39,644 --> 00:22:41,484
is because often when you engage in that

649
00:22:41,484 --> 00:22:43,025
kind of conversation, you start

650
00:22:43,484 --> 00:22:45,085
the void starts getting filled with a bunch

651
00:22:45,085 --> 00:22:47,105
of dogma and beliefs. And ultimately,

652
00:22:47,710 --> 00:22:48,690
like what we're,

653
00:22:49,390 --> 00:22:51,809
you know, trying to do here at Ceremonia

654
00:22:52,590 --> 00:22:54,289
is provide you

655
00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:56,590
the framework so that you can discover your

656
00:22:56,590 --> 00:22:59,869
own belief, your own truth, what feels right

657
00:22:59,869 --> 00:23:01,789
for you. So as an example, you know,

658
00:23:01,789 --> 00:23:02,610
one of the

659
00:23:03,025 --> 00:23:04,244
aims that we have

660
00:23:05,105 --> 00:23:06,704
to to get people to feel is the

661
00:23:06,704 --> 00:23:07,845
feeling of self empowerment.

662
00:23:08,144 --> 00:23:10,244
We always tell people before ceremony,

663
00:23:10,545 --> 00:23:12,085
you know, you can ask us questions,

664
00:23:12,785 --> 00:23:14,464
you can you can try to talk to

665
00:23:14,464 --> 00:23:16,779
us, but by and large, our answer is

666
00:23:16,779 --> 00:23:18,940
going to be only you know. So one

667
00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:20,380
time I went to the bathroom, you know,

668
00:23:20,380 --> 00:23:22,299
in our in our retreat center, you have

669
00:23:22,299 --> 00:23:23,839
to go up some stairs to the bathroom.

670
00:23:24,779 --> 00:23:26,460
When I when I open the door and

671
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:27,359
come out of it,

672
00:23:27,660 --> 00:23:29,505
right in front of me is,

673
00:23:29,945 --> 00:23:31,545
is one of the participants, his name is

674
00:23:31,545 --> 00:23:32,045
Eric.

675
00:23:32,825 --> 00:23:34,765
And Eric looks at me, he's like, Austin,

676
00:23:35,625 --> 00:23:36,924
should I go to the bathroom?

677
00:23:37,945 --> 00:23:38,845
Now this guy,

678
00:23:39,465 --> 00:23:40,045
you know,

679
00:23:41,545 --> 00:23:43,005
got up off his mat,

680
00:23:43,679 --> 00:23:45,839
walked a distance, which probably felt like an

681
00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:46,980
eternity to him,

682
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,359
climbed a little stairs, and is standing in

683
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,220
front of the restroom door. Right?

684
00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:53,839
And so every part of me wanted to

685
00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:55,679
say, well, of course, you made this whole

686
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:57,440
trip all the way here. Obviously you came

687
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,659
here to use the bathroom.

688
00:23:59,975 --> 00:24:01,434
But instead, I said to him,

689
00:24:02,134 --> 00:24:03,355
Eric, only you know.

690
00:24:03,975 --> 00:24:05,255
And he looked at me, and he's like,

691
00:24:05,255 --> 00:24:06,235
yeah. You're right.

692
00:24:06,775 --> 00:24:07,674
I do know.

693
00:24:09,255 --> 00:24:11,494
Now the next day during our integration circle,

694
00:24:11,494 --> 00:24:12,615
which is a circle where we share our

695
00:24:12,615 --> 00:24:13,115
experience,

696
00:24:13,494 --> 00:24:15,390
he would then share that that was the

697
00:24:15,390 --> 00:24:17,330
most important experience of his life.

698
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:20,190
Because all his life, people have been telling

699
00:24:20,190 --> 00:24:22,130
him what to do, and he would listen

700
00:24:22,190 --> 00:24:22,769
to it.

701
00:24:23,309 --> 00:24:25,089
But in that moment,

702
00:24:26,509 --> 00:24:28,509
what really hit him is that he has

703
00:24:28,509 --> 00:24:29,410
the inner gnosis

704
00:24:30,265 --> 00:24:30,765
to

705
00:24:31,224 --> 00:24:31,724
intuit

706
00:24:32,345 --> 00:24:34,025
where he's going and what he wants to

707
00:24:34,025 --> 00:24:36,125
be in his life at any given moment.

708
00:24:36,184 --> 00:24:37,724
And there's a saying that I love,

709
00:24:38,345 --> 00:24:40,664
sometimes my intuition leads me wrong, but it's

710
00:24:40,664 --> 00:24:42,684
the only thing that's ever led me right.

711
00:24:43,109 --> 00:24:45,049
You ask the question like, what is,

712
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:46,569
you know, what

713
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:48,789
is this really happening? Is, you know, I'd

714
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:49,849
like to think that

715
00:24:50,150 --> 00:24:52,490
my family member has had some

716
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:54,970
ancestral message that has come through.

717
00:24:55,904 --> 00:24:58,225
Who knows? But only you know. Well, and

718
00:24:58,225 --> 00:24:59,684
I love the idea that

719
00:25:00,545 --> 00:25:02,865
it matters and it doesn't matter. That's very

720
00:25:02,865 --> 00:25:03,664
Ram Dass. It's

721
00:25:04,625 --> 00:25:07,025
that this is the thing that's so frustrating

722
00:25:07,025 --> 00:25:09,105
about religion to me is that whatever is

723
00:25:09,105 --> 00:25:10,805
good for a particular person,

724
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:13,589
that's great. If that's working for you, that's

725
00:25:13,589 --> 00:25:14,089
wonderful.

726
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:16,470
That doesn't mean it has to work for

727
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:17,369
me. And

728
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:21,210
and we do walk a path that is

729
00:25:21,349 --> 00:25:24,035
so connected and yet so individualized.

730
00:25:24,575 --> 00:25:25,715
It can be confusing,

731
00:25:26,174 --> 00:25:28,174
obviously. That's why I chuckled so hard when

732
00:25:28,174 --> 00:25:30,035
you said, what the heck's going on?

733
00:25:30,735 --> 00:25:31,795
Nobody knows.

734
00:25:32,174 --> 00:25:34,735
And there's a beauty in that in that

735
00:25:34,735 --> 00:25:35,235
unknowing.

736
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,440
I'm I'm all also often, I'm curious your

737
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:39,339
thoughts on this,

738
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:40,700
perplexed

739
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:42,140
by

740
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:43,820
those who are

741
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,759
as afraid of their own joy as they

742
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:47,980
are of their

743
00:25:48,944 --> 00:25:49,444
anger.

744
00:25:49,825 --> 00:25:52,065
What's that saying? It's like the devil that

745
00:25:52,065 --> 00:25:52,724
you know

746
00:25:53,304 --> 00:25:53,804
is

747
00:25:54,384 --> 00:25:56,085
often easier than the Yeah.

748
00:25:57,265 --> 00:25:59,664
What is it? It's, the devil you know

749
00:25:59,664 --> 00:26:01,984
is is better than the one you don't.

750
00:26:01,984 --> 00:26:03,599
In other words, if you're

751
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,179
you live in such comfort of the knowing

752
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,259
even if it's terrible for you.

753
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:09,940
Exactly.

754
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,079
Exactly. So one of the first things that

755
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:13,599
we ask when when people come into our

756
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:14,500
coaching container

757
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,880
is, are you ready to approach this with

758
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,304
a thick with a change mindset or a

759
00:26:19,304 --> 00:26:21,565
fixed mindset? Because if you're here

760
00:26:21,944 --> 00:26:23,404
to make a change in your life,

761
00:26:23,785 --> 00:26:25,625
that means that you have to be ready

762
00:26:25,625 --> 00:26:26,285
to question

763
00:26:26,664 --> 00:26:29,464
the things that you've your patterns. Right? Your

764
00:26:29,464 --> 00:26:29,964
default

765
00:26:30,670 --> 00:26:32,910
that you've done. And we liken it to

766
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:35,309
scientists often use this metaphor that you're skiing

767
00:26:35,309 --> 00:26:37,710
down a hill and you keep skiing down

768
00:26:37,710 --> 00:26:38,609
the same tracks.

769
00:26:38,910 --> 00:26:40,849
It makes it pretty difficult to

770
00:26:41,150 --> 00:26:44,045
like veer off that track. But imagine fresh

771
00:26:44,045 --> 00:26:46,525
powder for those skiers out there. It's beautiful

772
00:26:46,525 --> 00:26:47,984
because you can carve new tracks.

773
00:26:48,445 --> 00:26:51,984
What happens within the psychedelic experience is that

774
00:26:52,285 --> 00:26:55,404
the mind opens up its pathways that you

775
00:26:55,404 --> 00:26:57,265
can carve new neural pathways.

776
00:26:57,829 --> 00:26:58,490
So that

777
00:26:59,109 --> 00:27:01,450
if your brain would go from point A

778
00:27:01,589 --> 00:27:03,109
to point B to point C to point

779
00:27:03,109 --> 00:27:05,109
D, now maybe you can go from point

780
00:27:05,109 --> 00:27:07,769
A to point D, or D to G,

781
00:27:08,150 --> 00:27:10,890
or G to Z, you know? And so

782
00:27:11,424 --> 00:27:14,724
you can retrain and rewire your brain literally

783
00:27:15,265 --> 00:27:16,404
to remap

784
00:27:16,945 --> 00:27:18,005
how you would experience

785
00:27:18,865 --> 00:27:19,365
joy

786
00:27:20,625 --> 00:27:21,445
or anger.

787
00:27:22,065 --> 00:27:24,565
We had another participant, Christina, who came.

788
00:27:24,929 --> 00:27:27,429
And in the ceremony, in the first ceremony,

789
00:27:27,809 --> 00:27:29,490
she was walking to the bathroom and I

790
00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:31,329
was following her and then she collapsed and

791
00:27:31,329 --> 00:27:32,309
I caught her.

792
00:27:33,250 --> 00:27:34,849
And her whole body was limped kind of

793
00:27:34,849 --> 00:27:37,089
like Gumby, but she was still very cute

794
00:27:37,089 --> 00:27:39,169
and sweet and said, Oh, I'm totally fine,

795
00:27:39,169 --> 00:27:41,784
I'm fine. She was obviously not pretty much

796
00:27:41,784 --> 00:27:43,484
dead weight as I propped her up.

797
00:27:44,184 --> 00:27:47,325
Second ceremony, something very similar, also collapsed.

798
00:27:48,264 --> 00:27:48,764
Now,

799
00:27:49,065 --> 00:27:50,605
Christina originally came

800
00:27:50,984 --> 00:27:52,585
because she had been in and out of

801
00:27:52,585 --> 00:27:54,779
the hospital for digestive issues. There was this

802
00:27:54,779 --> 00:27:57,200
big curiosity of, like, what's going on here?

803
00:27:57,660 --> 00:27:58,799
Then we did a workshop

804
00:27:59,180 --> 00:28:01,180
where and not to not to give it

805
00:28:01,180 --> 00:28:03,039
all give it away to all your listeners,

806
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:04,799
but we did a workshop called reparenting,

807
00:28:05,340 --> 00:28:08,444
where the workshop is two people holding each

808
00:28:08,444 --> 00:28:10,704
other to gentle music for fifteen minutes,

809
00:28:11,085 --> 00:28:11,825
role playing

810
00:28:12,285 --> 00:28:14,545
being the divine parent and the divine child.

811
00:28:14,605 --> 00:28:16,444
In other words, what would it be like

812
00:28:16,444 --> 00:28:18,285
if you just allowed yourself to be held

813
00:28:18,285 --> 00:28:20,444
by your parents? It often produces a lot

814
00:28:20,444 --> 00:28:22,570
of tears. Like, we're talking about this cognitively,

815
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:25,190
but in the moment, it's an incredible experience

816
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:27,509
because how often have we allowed ourselves to

817
00:28:27,509 --> 00:28:29,990
just be held for fifteen minutes straight? Try

818
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:31,349
this at home with your partner, by the

819
00:28:31,349 --> 00:28:31,849
way.

820
00:28:32,150 --> 00:28:33,690
It's an amazing experience.

821
00:28:34,184 --> 00:28:36,184
After that, she realized you know, I asked

822
00:28:36,184 --> 00:28:37,384
the question, like, when do you feel the

823
00:28:37,384 --> 00:28:38,684
most safe as a kid?

824
00:28:39,144 --> 00:28:40,744
And she realized that when she felt the

825
00:28:40,744 --> 00:28:42,585
most safe was when she was sick. Because

826
00:28:42,585 --> 00:28:44,105
at that moment, that's when her mom would

827
00:28:44,105 --> 00:28:45,005
take care of her.

828
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:47,819
And so her body learned

829
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:50,539
to it clicked for her. Her body learned

830
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:53,159
to get sick in order to feel love

831
00:28:53,159 --> 00:28:53,899
and safety.

832
00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:57,079
So when she would feel unsafe, immediately, let's

833
00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:00,380
get sick. Third ceremony, she was vibrant, dancing,

834
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:01,099
singing,

835
00:29:01,855 --> 00:29:03,154
and ever since,

836
00:29:04,095 --> 00:29:07,134
those physical elements have largely gone away. To

837
00:29:07,134 --> 00:29:08,835
your point, many people

838
00:29:09,774 --> 00:29:10,755
can have a discomfort

839
00:29:11,375 --> 00:29:11,875
with

840
00:29:12,255 --> 00:29:15,054
certain feelings of joy or peace or love

841
00:29:15,054 --> 00:29:16,674
because they're like, what is this feeling?

842
00:29:17,769 --> 00:29:19,529
What's even deeper than that is our body

843
00:29:19,529 --> 00:29:21,710
keeps the score, our body stores

844
00:29:22,170 --> 00:29:25,289
the experience of what's familiar to us. And

845
00:29:25,289 --> 00:29:27,549
it can store decades of stress.

846
00:29:28,009 --> 00:29:28,910
It could store

847
00:29:29,545 --> 00:29:30,045
generations

848
00:29:30,904 --> 00:29:31,404
of

849
00:29:31,785 --> 00:29:32,285
pain,

850
00:29:32,904 --> 00:29:34,205
trauma, of blame,

851
00:29:34,664 --> 00:29:37,545
of shame, you know? Psychedelics doesn't have to

852
00:29:37,545 --> 00:29:39,305
be the answer, but but you know, in

853
00:29:39,305 --> 00:29:39,964
my opinion,

854
00:29:40,744 --> 00:29:43,065
it is the best answer that we have

855
00:29:43,065 --> 00:29:43,724
right now

856
00:29:44,049 --> 00:29:46,070
for an accelerated path of healing.

857
00:29:46,450 --> 00:29:47,349
When you work

858
00:29:47,890 --> 00:29:49,029
in these spaces

859
00:29:50,049 --> 00:29:50,549
and

860
00:29:51,890 --> 00:29:53,589
hold that kind of energy,

861
00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:56,630
how do you

862
00:29:57,414 --> 00:29:59,654
decompress from it? How do you cleanse yourself

863
00:29:59,654 --> 00:30:00,875
from it? And also,

864
00:30:01,894 --> 00:30:02,555
you mentioned

865
00:30:04,055 --> 00:30:06,855
the savior complex. How do you keep in

866
00:30:06,855 --> 00:30:09,355
a detached way, especially when

867
00:30:09,734 --> 00:30:10,234
such

868
00:30:10,829 --> 00:30:11,329
huge

869
00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:14,109
things are happening all around you? How do

870
00:30:14,109 --> 00:30:15,789
you keep your ego from going, yeah, I

871
00:30:15,789 --> 00:30:18,109
did that. You know? I was with Richard

872
00:30:18,109 --> 00:30:20,509
Branson. I'm cool. How do you detach from

873
00:30:20,509 --> 00:30:21,490
that space?

874
00:30:21,950 --> 00:30:23,950
Well, first I'll say I'm still learning on

875
00:30:23,950 --> 00:30:25,869
both those subject matters, detaching and also the

876
00:30:25,869 --> 00:30:27,765
ego. I'll be the first to admit

877
00:30:28,224 --> 00:30:30,005
that pride has been my biggest

878
00:30:31,184 --> 00:30:33,184
shadow. Coincidentally, it's a little bit of a

879
00:30:33,184 --> 00:30:35,525
tangent. Pride exists to hide shame.

880
00:30:36,065 --> 00:30:37,505
AKA shame being the parts of us that

881
00:30:37,505 --> 00:30:39,609
carry the burdens of I'm not enough or

882
00:30:39,609 --> 00:30:41,690
I'm not good enough. Right? And so I'll

883
00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:43,369
inflate my chest and be like, no, I'm

884
00:30:43,369 --> 00:30:45,769
actually amazing. That's just an aside. I like

885
00:30:45,769 --> 00:30:47,849
being nerdy about psychology. No, that's a very

886
00:30:47,849 --> 00:30:50,009
good point, I think, to make. I'll target

887
00:30:50,009 --> 00:30:51,690
the first, the first part of your question,

888
00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:53,369
like, how do I decompress and how do

889
00:30:53,369 --> 00:30:55,934
I re articulate it? How do I make

890
00:30:55,934 --> 00:30:57,695
sure I'm not taking on too much? And

891
00:30:57,695 --> 00:30:59,855
I learned something from Doctor. Thupten Jinpa, who's

892
00:30:59,855 --> 00:31:01,934
the translator to the Dalai Lama and a

893
00:31:01,934 --> 00:31:03,555
prominent Buddhist monk himself.

894
00:31:03,934 --> 00:31:06,174
And he has something in San Francisco called

895
00:31:06,174 --> 00:31:08,414
the Compassion Institute. Through a combination of speaking

896
00:31:08,414 --> 00:31:11,109
with him and speaking with Doctor. Richard Schwartz,

897
00:31:11,109 --> 00:31:13,130
who created Internal Family Systems,

898
00:31:13,589 --> 00:31:16,230
the fastest growing psychotherapeutic framework now, and the

899
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:18,650
one most often paired in psychedelic assisted therapy,

900
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:20,730
this idea of compassion versus empathy.

901
00:31:21,109 --> 00:31:21,609
Empathy

902
00:31:21,910 --> 00:31:23,930
is, if you're crying, Susan,

903
00:31:24,484 --> 00:31:24,984
I

904
00:31:25,365 --> 00:31:27,785
am crying with you. I'm feeling your feelings

905
00:31:28,244 --> 00:31:30,085
as you, with you, and I'm in it

906
00:31:30,085 --> 00:31:31,945
with you. I used to lead every

907
00:31:32,965 --> 00:31:34,184
interaction that way.

908
00:31:34,724 --> 00:31:36,644
And I was good at it, you know?

909
00:31:36,644 --> 00:31:39,144
I was good at feeling other people's feelings.

910
00:31:39,605 --> 00:31:40,105
And

911
00:31:40,509 --> 00:31:41,950
I would then pat myself on the back

912
00:31:41,950 --> 00:31:43,309
and be like, damn, I did a good

913
00:31:43,309 --> 00:31:45,630
job by really feeling your feelings. But then

914
00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:47,710
I would get so drained that I would

915
00:31:47,710 --> 00:31:49,890
barely be able to walk after a retreat.

916
00:31:50,109 --> 00:31:51,410
Like, I was exhausted.

917
00:31:52,990 --> 00:31:54,609
And then I learned from

918
00:31:55,134 --> 00:31:57,154
Doctor. Jinpa and from Doctor. Schwartz

919
00:31:58,414 --> 00:32:02,015
that empathy is a protective part. It's actually

920
00:32:02,015 --> 00:32:04,654
a part that tries to protect me from

921
00:32:04,654 --> 00:32:05,474
feeling myself,

922
00:32:06,015 --> 00:32:07,855
which is very interesting because the more that

923
00:32:07,855 --> 00:32:09,855
I feel you, the less I'm able to

924
00:32:09,855 --> 00:32:11,960
feel myself, which which is the impact that

925
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,840
you're having on me. And whereas empathy is

926
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,940
a protective part that is energy depleted,

927
00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:18,539
energy subtractive,

928
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,160
compassion is an aspect of self with a

929
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,740
capital s. This is under the IFS model,

930
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,660
which is infinitely available.

931
00:32:26,125 --> 00:32:27,565
And so you would look at, you know,

932
00:32:27,565 --> 00:32:29,244
there's a story of the Dalai Lama. He

933
00:32:29,244 --> 00:32:30,924
was at a conference, he was at this

934
00:32:30,924 --> 00:32:31,424
hotel

935
00:32:32,044 --> 00:32:33,964
over the course of three days, right? And

936
00:32:33,964 --> 00:32:36,605
he was the featured speaker. Thousands of people

937
00:32:36,605 --> 00:32:38,605
attend, and they listen to the Dalai Lama

938
00:32:38,605 --> 00:32:39,744
speak. And afterwards,

939
00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:41,960
the Dalai Lama goes to his assistant and

940
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,880
says, please gather all the staff at the

941
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,700
hotel. So 150 staff line up

942
00:32:47,399 --> 00:32:48,380
in front of him.

943
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:51,740
And one by one, he greets every person

944
00:32:52,535 --> 00:32:53,994
and asks how their day is,

945
00:32:54,454 --> 00:32:57,414
you know, and expresses gratitude to them. This

946
00:32:57,414 --> 00:32:58,234
takes hours.

947
00:32:58,775 --> 00:33:01,174
And every single person had his complete and

948
00:33:01,174 --> 00:33:01,994
full attention.

949
00:33:03,095 --> 00:33:05,099
As if at that moment, they were the

950
00:33:05,099 --> 00:33:05,599
most

951
00:33:06,059 --> 00:33:07,900
that person was the most important person in

952
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:08,960
the world to him.

953
00:33:09,259 --> 00:33:10,460
Then he gets on a plane and he

954
00:33:10,460 --> 00:33:12,220
goes to the next talk. And so you

955
00:33:12,220 --> 00:33:14,140
might ask yourself, like, how is it possible

956
00:33:14,140 --> 00:33:16,380
that someone of that age has that much

957
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:16,880
energy?

958
00:33:18,664 --> 00:33:19,565
And it's because

959
00:33:20,184 --> 00:33:22,105
the amount of compassion that he has, the

960
00:33:22,105 --> 00:33:24,664
amount of compassion that doctor Schwartz has is

961
00:33:24,664 --> 00:33:25,164
so

962
00:33:25,785 --> 00:33:27,884
available. It's so expansive

963
00:33:28,664 --> 00:33:30,744
that it's actually energy additive. They can have

964
00:33:30,744 --> 00:33:32,750
less sleep and have more energy than most

965
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:33,250
people.

966
00:33:33,630 --> 00:33:36,109
I use that as inspiration to discover that

967
00:33:36,109 --> 00:33:38,029
well of compassion inside of me. And now

968
00:33:38,029 --> 00:33:39,789
the way that I hold the container is

969
00:33:39,789 --> 00:33:41,890
if you are deeply crying, I'm

970
00:33:42,429 --> 00:33:42,929
not

971
00:33:43,230 --> 00:33:45,585
crying with you. I am being very present

972
00:33:45,585 --> 00:33:47,585
with you, I'm breathing with you, and I

973
00:33:47,585 --> 00:33:50,644
am pouring my compassion into your experience.

974
00:33:51,424 --> 00:33:53,744
Thich Nhat Hanh, who's a prominent Buddhist monk

975
00:33:53,825 --> 00:33:55,825
I was just gonna say this sounds very

976
00:33:55,825 --> 00:33:58,919
Thich Nhat Hanh. Yeah. He wrote about 118

977
00:33:58,919 --> 00:34:00,859
books, passed away something like two years ago,

978
00:34:01,159 --> 00:34:03,079
and I love his definition of compassion. He

979
00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:05,319
says it's the want for someone else not

980
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:05,900
to suffer.

981
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:07,799
You know, I've been in spaces where I've

982
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:08,299
seen

983
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,420
the deepest amount of pain,

984
00:34:12,204 --> 00:34:16,525
like humanly imaginable, you know, combat veterans or

985
00:34:16,525 --> 00:34:18,784
people that have suffered tremendous abuses,

986
00:34:19,484 --> 00:34:21,824
and they're reliving it in front of me,

987
00:34:21,885 --> 00:34:24,464
you know, just like I relived my experience.

988
00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:27,949
And to be and I'm able now finally,

989
00:34:27,949 --> 00:34:29,469
like, it took me a long time to

990
00:34:29,469 --> 00:34:31,650
develop this skill and I'm still learning this.

991
00:34:31,949 --> 00:34:33,789
But to be able to sit there and

992
00:34:33,789 --> 00:34:34,289
just

993
00:34:34,670 --> 00:34:36,449
give them my presence and my compassion

994
00:34:36,829 --> 00:34:37,329
without,

995
00:34:38,484 --> 00:34:40,885
you know, being in it with them. Does

996
00:34:40,885 --> 00:34:43,125
that make sense? It does. It feels like

997
00:34:43,125 --> 00:34:44,264
the difference between

998
00:34:44,885 --> 00:34:47,525
going into someone's space and holding space for

999
00:34:47,525 --> 00:34:49,224
them. Yeah. Yeah.

1000
00:34:50,579 --> 00:34:51,880
You know, a lot of times, like,

1001
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:53,960
if you see your friend crying,

1002
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:56,180
what's the typical thing that most people do?

1003
00:34:56,180 --> 00:34:58,180
They're like, Oh, put a hand on your

1004
00:34:58,180 --> 00:34:58,680
shoulder,

1005
00:34:59,059 --> 00:35:01,460
and, Oh, it's okay. Don't cry. It's gonna

1006
00:35:01,460 --> 00:35:02,840
be okay. You know, as facilitators,

1007
00:35:03,924 --> 00:35:05,684
part of our training is to ask, why

1008
00:35:05,684 --> 00:35:07,605
am I doing that? Why am I putting

1009
00:35:07,605 --> 00:35:08,984
my hand on someone's shoulder?

1010
00:35:09,284 --> 00:35:10,264
And the real answer

1011
00:35:10,885 --> 00:35:12,804
99 times out of 100 is, it's not

1012
00:35:12,804 --> 00:35:14,025
for them, it's for me.

1013
00:35:14,404 --> 00:35:16,724
Or my ego tries to convince me that

1014
00:35:16,724 --> 00:35:19,369
it's for them. Because in that moment, there's

1015
00:35:19,369 --> 00:35:21,610
some part of me that is uncomfortable with

1016
00:35:21,610 --> 00:35:23,950
them crying that doesn't want them to cry.

1017
00:35:24,489 --> 00:35:27,050
But have you ever had a really good

1018
00:35:27,050 --> 00:35:29,130
sob after that really good sob? How do

1019
00:35:29,130 --> 00:35:29,789
you feel?

1020
00:35:30,329 --> 00:35:30,829
Awesome.

1021
00:35:32,144 --> 00:35:33,045
Awesome. Exactly.

1022
00:35:34,465 --> 00:35:36,305
The reason why you feel that way is

1023
00:35:36,305 --> 00:35:38,945
because that sob has been locked up inside

1024
00:35:38,945 --> 00:35:40,565
of you for God knows how long.

1025
00:35:41,505 --> 00:35:43,844
And now it's finally allowed to release.

1026
00:35:44,349 --> 00:35:45,089
And so

1027
00:35:46,030 --> 00:35:48,030
if I put a hand on your shoulder

1028
00:35:48,030 --> 00:35:48,849
as you're crying

1029
00:35:49,230 --> 00:35:50,750
and say, oh, you don't need to cry.

1030
00:35:50,750 --> 00:35:52,429
It's gonna be okay. And then you stop

1031
00:35:52,429 --> 00:35:54,670
crying. I may have just robbed you of

1032
00:35:54,670 --> 00:35:56,989
that experience of being able to release something

1033
00:35:56,989 --> 00:35:58,589
that's been trapped for a very long period

1034
00:35:58,589 --> 00:35:59,170
of time.

1035
00:35:59,765 --> 00:36:00,965
And I did that not for you. I

1036
00:36:00,965 --> 00:36:03,445
did it for me. This is why it's

1037
00:36:03,445 --> 00:36:06,244
such a problem that boys are told they're

1038
00:36:06,244 --> 00:36:07,625
not supposed to cry.

1039
00:36:08,885 --> 00:36:09,704
Oh, totally.

1040
00:36:10,005 --> 00:36:10,505
Yeah.

1041
00:36:11,619 --> 00:36:12,119
Yeah.

1042
00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:13,400
I love crying.

1043
00:36:13,859 --> 00:36:14,920
I'm a good crier,

1044
00:36:15,619 --> 00:36:17,460
but I used to suck at it before

1045
00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:18,760
because I was a man.

1046
00:36:19,859 --> 00:36:21,880
Yes. Right. I've been to

1047
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:23,800
various energy working

1048
00:36:24,385 --> 00:36:24,885
scenarios

1049
00:36:25,184 --> 00:36:25,684
where

1050
00:36:26,065 --> 00:36:26,885
the facilitator

1051
00:36:27,265 --> 00:36:28,565
step back as I

1052
00:36:29,025 --> 00:36:31,605
I would call it a primal cry,

1053
00:36:32,625 --> 00:36:33,525
you know? And,

1054
00:36:33,825 --> 00:36:35,125
boy, it feels like

1055
00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:38,880
hundreds of pounds are lifted and hundreds of

1056
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,800
years are lifted when you come out of

1057
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,619
something like that. It's such a release. Totally.

1058
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,000
Yeah. But, I mean, this is my argument

1059
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,699
for saying this is why we go

1060
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,664
to the movies or read a book or

1061
00:36:50,664 --> 00:36:52,905
listen to music because sometimes we don't know

1062
00:36:52,905 --> 00:36:54,605
how to get to those spaces,

1063
00:36:55,545 --> 00:36:56,045
and

1064
00:36:56,585 --> 00:36:59,324
they are our conduit into that release.

1065
00:36:59,625 --> 00:37:01,144
And in our brain, we're like, oh, no.

1066
00:37:01,144 --> 00:37:03,179
No. I'm just crying about the movie. But

1067
00:37:03,179 --> 00:37:05,260
what you what you're actually doing is you're

1068
00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:06,400
mirroring, you're feeling

1069
00:37:06,860 --> 00:37:07,679
that mirrored

1070
00:37:07,980 --> 00:37:08,480
experience,

1071
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:09,840
and

1072
00:37:10,219 --> 00:37:11,519
it allows you to

1073
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:14,619
make that release. I'm a huge believer in

1074
00:37:14,619 --> 00:37:15,440
being emotional

1075
00:37:16,545 --> 00:37:18,944
in those spaces. Because I I think it

1076
00:37:18,944 --> 00:37:22,085
does. It does the work. Yes. Yes. And

1077
00:37:22,464 --> 00:37:24,944
I also have opinions in that sometimes we

1078
00:37:24,944 --> 00:37:26,864
go and seek it out. And we seek

1079
00:37:26,864 --> 00:37:28,304
it out out out of a a form

1080
00:37:28,304 --> 00:37:30,659
of masochism. Like, we wanna feel the pain.

1081
00:37:31,059 --> 00:37:33,619
Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of confusion

1082
00:37:33,619 --> 00:37:34,119
as,

1083
00:37:34,659 --> 00:37:37,460
love and and fear slash hate, how those

1084
00:37:37,460 --> 00:37:38,199
two things,

1085
00:37:39,139 --> 00:37:40,920
what they feel like. And and

1086
00:37:41,780 --> 00:37:44,260
especially with parent parent wounds, when you grow

1087
00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:45,000
up thinking,

1088
00:37:45,664 --> 00:37:47,525
when those two things get so convoluted

1089
00:37:47,824 --> 00:37:49,125
as to the meaning

1090
00:37:49,664 --> 00:37:51,585
of them and then you seek them out

1091
00:37:51,585 --> 00:37:52,644
in other relationships

1092
00:37:52,945 --> 00:37:53,445
and

1093
00:37:53,824 --> 00:37:56,164
all hell breaks loose. That's certainly

1094
00:37:57,264 --> 00:37:58,324
not an uncommon

1095
00:37:58,625 --> 00:37:59,125
thing.

1096
00:38:00,099 --> 00:38:03,780
Mhmm. Yeah. Tell me about Yeah. What steps

1097
00:38:03,780 --> 00:38:06,119
led to creating the facility.

1098
00:38:06,739 --> 00:38:07,239
And

1099
00:38:07,699 --> 00:38:09,219
I think a lot of people would be

1100
00:38:09,219 --> 00:38:11,139
like, well, why aren't you supposed to go

1101
00:38:11,139 --> 00:38:12,579
off and be in a jungle to do

1102
00:38:12,579 --> 00:38:15,535
this versus going to Colorado, which by the

1103
00:38:15,535 --> 00:38:17,555
way is a beautiful state.

1104
00:38:18,735 --> 00:38:19,235
Yeah.

1105
00:38:20,175 --> 00:38:21,235
Prior to

1106
00:38:21,614 --> 00:38:22,675
founding Ceremonia

1107
00:38:23,135 --> 00:38:24,755
in 2022,

1108
00:38:24,894 --> 00:38:26,815
I was the director of one of the

1109
00:38:26,815 --> 00:38:28,860
most well known Ayahuasca retreats in the world

1110
00:38:28,860 --> 00:38:31,340
based in Costa Rica called One Heart. Through

1111
00:38:31,340 --> 00:38:32,940
One Heart, you know, I was part of

1112
00:38:32,940 --> 00:38:33,840
around 300,

1113
00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:35,760
individuals' journeys, mostly

1114
00:38:36,220 --> 00:38:37,200
founders and entrepreneurs.

1115
00:38:37,579 --> 00:38:39,340
What I observed in that experience, like, they

1116
00:38:39,340 --> 00:38:41,900
produced an extraordinarily beautiful experience, and I will

1117
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:43,760
forever be grateful to them.

1118
00:38:44,434 --> 00:38:44,934
Extraordinarily

1119
00:38:45,315 --> 00:38:46,695
curated, well intentioned,

1120
00:38:47,155 --> 00:38:49,315
really best in its class at what it

1121
00:38:49,315 --> 00:38:49,815
does.

1122
00:38:50,594 --> 00:38:51,094
And

1123
00:38:51,554 --> 00:38:53,655
it was missing something tremendous.

1124
00:38:54,275 --> 00:38:55,875
And the way that I discovered that it

1125
00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:58,135
was missing is because despite

1126
00:38:58,599 --> 00:38:59,420
doing ayahuasca

1127
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,019
dozens of times myself,

1128
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,980
despite being deeply in service, despite

1129
00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:07,000
devoting a lot of energy of my own

1130
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:07,980
to that path,

1131
00:39:08,359 --> 00:39:10,119
I was suffering in ways that I did

1132
00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:10,859
not understand

1133
00:39:11,315 --> 00:39:12,375
how to get out of.

1134
00:39:12,994 --> 00:39:14,215
And I did not have

1135
00:39:14,675 --> 00:39:16,275
I didn't even know what to look for

1136
00:39:16,275 --> 00:39:17,335
in terms of support.

1137
00:39:17,795 --> 00:39:19,414
And how to get out of it myself.

1138
00:39:20,355 --> 00:39:21,894
And I'm a pretty smart dude.

1139
00:39:22,675 --> 00:39:24,434
So, you know, for me to have spent

1140
00:39:24,434 --> 00:39:26,535
that much time and energy in

1141
00:39:27,230 --> 00:39:29,329
a container that professes to provide

1142
00:39:30,589 --> 00:39:31,889
deep and long term healing,

1143
00:39:32,349 --> 00:39:33,089
that I

1144
00:39:33,469 --> 00:39:35,650
was still clueless as to what to do

1145
00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:37,329
to get out of these

1146
00:39:37,949 --> 00:39:38,449
very

1147
00:39:38,829 --> 00:39:41,010
painful things that were happening in my life,

1148
00:39:42,105 --> 00:39:43,625
well, I went on the path of self

1149
00:39:43,625 --> 00:39:46,284
discovery. And what I figured out was

1150
00:39:46,985 --> 00:39:47,485
that

1151
00:39:49,545 --> 00:39:51,244
we don't have to reinvent the wheel.

1152
00:39:52,184 --> 00:39:53,804
There are previous maps

1153
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:56,630
to this, and they come from mindfulness and

1154
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:58,789
psychology. I have a podcast, it's called Modern

1155
00:39:58,789 --> 00:40:01,349
Enlightenment, and we have the luminaries from the

1156
00:40:01,349 --> 00:40:03,769
psychedelic and spiritual space coming onto our podcast.

1157
00:40:04,389 --> 00:40:06,150
And before the podcast, I explain to them

1158
00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:07,589
what this podcast is about. And I say

1159
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:09,369
to them, a hundred years ago,

1160
00:40:10,025 --> 00:40:11,465
if you wanted to pursue the path of

1161
00:40:11,465 --> 00:40:12,364
spiritual enlightenment,

1162
00:40:12,825 --> 00:40:14,265
you'd have to become a horny monk on

1163
00:40:14,265 --> 00:40:14,844
a mountain.

1164
00:40:16,585 --> 00:40:18,364
But now we have all these different tools.

1165
00:40:18,425 --> 00:40:20,744
We've got breath work, we've got neuroscience, we've

1166
00:40:20,744 --> 00:40:23,440
got psychedelics, we've got so on and so

1167
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,260
forth. Retreats. Blah blah blah blah. Right? So

1168
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,680
how do we get to enlightenment? Right? What's

1169
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,460
the optimal pathway there?

1170
00:40:32,559 --> 00:40:35,460
The because what ends up happening is is

1171
00:40:35,985 --> 00:40:38,485
psychedelics is is just an accelerant.

1172
00:40:38,865 --> 00:40:41,845
It's a catalyst. When Maharaji, which is Ramdas's

1173
00:40:41,985 --> 00:40:45,345
teacher or Ramdas's guru, when Ramdas gave him

1174
00:40:45,345 --> 00:40:46,485
five hits of acid

1175
00:40:46,785 --> 00:40:47,445
of LSD,

1176
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,440
Maharaj is like, that's interesting, give me five

1177
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:51,940
more.

1178
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:52,980
So now,

1179
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:55,599
you know, Doctor. Richard Alpert, AKA Ram Dass,

1180
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:56,980
gives him another five.

1181
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,900
Maharaj is now in ten

1182
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,059
doses of LSD, which

1183
00:41:01,474 --> 00:41:02,135
is exponential.

1184
00:41:02,434 --> 00:41:04,934
And then he says, this is a plaything.

1185
00:41:05,715 --> 00:41:08,375
In other words, what Maharaj's waking life

1186
00:41:08,675 --> 00:41:10,775
what he was experiencing in his waking life

1187
00:41:10,994 --> 00:41:13,655
was more than ten tabs of LSD.

1188
00:41:14,059 --> 00:41:16,300
And really, in fact, probably more than LSD

1189
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,239
could possibly even get person two.

1190
00:41:18,940 --> 00:41:20,699
In other words, the path of meditation and

1191
00:41:20,699 --> 00:41:21,199
mindfulness

1192
00:41:22,139 --> 00:41:24,539
already has a map for where we're trying

1193
00:41:24,539 --> 00:41:25,440
to get to

1194
00:41:26,139 --> 00:41:29,255
within the psychedelic space. That's data point number

1195
00:41:29,255 --> 00:41:31,195
one. Data point number two is psychotherapy.

1196
00:41:32,375 --> 00:41:32,875
Psychotherapy,

1197
00:41:33,735 --> 00:41:35,755
we're now in the third stage of psychology.

1198
00:41:35,974 --> 00:41:37,355
First stage was Pavlov,

1199
00:41:37,655 --> 00:41:40,454
ring a bell, dog salivates, human must be

1200
00:41:40,454 --> 00:41:41,250
the same way.

1201
00:41:41,650 --> 00:41:45,269
Second was cognitive behavioral therapy, which is CBT,

1202
00:41:45,409 --> 00:41:46,070
which is

1203
00:41:46,929 --> 00:41:49,170
I'm gonna say affirmations and I'm gonna be

1204
00:41:49,170 --> 00:41:52,289
able to change my mood, largely disproven. And

1205
00:41:52,289 --> 00:41:54,210
now the third wave is a more integrated

1206
00:41:54,210 --> 00:41:56,324
model. It began with a form of therapy

1207
00:41:56,324 --> 00:41:58,184
called acceptance and commitment therapy,

1208
00:41:58,565 --> 00:41:59,945
which was a which was,

1209
00:42:00,405 --> 00:42:01,144
a psychotherapeutic

1210
00:42:01,445 --> 00:42:02,985
or clinical model of mindfulness.

1211
00:42:03,684 --> 00:42:05,864
And so now we have gestalt, IFS,

1212
00:42:06,565 --> 00:42:08,724
EMDR, like lots of different forms of therapy

1213
00:42:08,724 --> 00:42:09,704
in this third wave

1214
00:42:10,059 --> 00:42:12,779
that are effectively saying the way to healing

1215
00:42:12,779 --> 00:42:14,699
is the experience of the present moment. We

1216
00:42:14,699 --> 00:42:16,819
all have trauma with a lowercase t or

1217
00:42:16,819 --> 00:42:18,299
a capital t. We all have stuff in

1218
00:42:18,299 --> 00:42:20,639
the past. We all have anxiety or

1219
00:42:21,019 --> 00:42:22,940
fears of the future, but what really matters

1220
00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:24,585
is how do you experience it now?

1221
00:42:25,464 --> 00:42:27,244
Because now is the only time it exists.

1222
00:42:27,304 --> 00:42:29,545
You feel anxious about, you know, what you're

1223
00:42:29,545 --> 00:42:30,764
gonna do in your retirement

1224
00:42:31,545 --> 00:42:33,405
or your wedding next week?

1225
00:42:33,784 --> 00:42:36,505
Well, you're actually experiencing that anxiety right now

1226
00:42:36,505 --> 00:42:38,025
in this moment. How can you be with

1227
00:42:38,025 --> 00:42:38,684
that experience

1228
00:42:39,230 --> 00:42:40,929
The greater mindfulness and skillfulness.

1229
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:43,329
So

1230
00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:44,769
I started to learn

1231
00:42:45,150 --> 00:42:45,969
these tools.

1232
00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:48,210
And the way that I learned

1233
00:42:48,510 --> 00:42:49,329
it would be

1234
00:42:49,789 --> 00:42:50,929
I would meet somebody

1235
00:42:51,575 --> 00:42:52,235
with an

1236
00:42:52,695 --> 00:42:54,934
embodiment of something that I would want. It's

1237
00:42:54,934 --> 00:42:56,954
like, wow. You are so much more peaceful.

1238
00:42:57,655 --> 00:42:59,434
You're so much more present,

1239
00:43:00,055 --> 00:43:00,555
compassionate,

1240
00:43:01,095 --> 00:43:01,595
sensual,

1241
00:43:02,535 --> 00:43:04,535
tantric, whatever it was. I was like, how

1242
00:43:04,535 --> 00:43:06,739
did you get that way? And they said,

1243
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,019
well, go and try this thing. And so

1244
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,760
at that time, my partner and I would

1245
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,840
go to a training or retreat almost once

1246
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,780
a month, all over the world.

1247
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:18,400
Right. We had the freedom and and both

1248
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,679
the time and money to be able to

1249
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:20,260
do that.

1250
00:43:20,864 --> 00:43:23,585
And it very rapidly, like, learned a huge

1251
00:43:23,585 --> 00:43:24,085
toolset

1252
00:43:24,385 --> 00:43:27,505
of not just theoretical ideas, but really embodied

1253
00:43:27,505 --> 00:43:29,344
sense of, like, how to work with these

1254
00:43:29,344 --> 00:43:29,844
things.

1255
00:43:30,625 --> 00:43:32,224
And we took the best of I took

1256
00:43:32,224 --> 00:43:33,925
the best of the best of these workshops

1257
00:43:34,144 --> 00:43:35,525
from various different programs,

1258
00:43:36,849 --> 00:43:37,909
stitched it together,

1259
00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:41,349
iterated on it, and now that's what Ceremonia

1260
00:43:41,489 --> 00:43:44,690
is. We've run now like 36

1261
00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:46,849
retreats in two years, a little over two

1262
00:43:46,849 --> 00:43:48,869
years, which is an incredible amount of retreats.

1263
00:43:49,545 --> 00:43:51,385
And every single one is different from the

1264
00:43:51,385 --> 00:43:53,644
last because we still keep iterating,

1265
00:43:54,184 --> 00:43:54,684
improving

1266
00:43:54,984 --> 00:43:56,284
on this model.

1267
00:43:56,905 --> 00:43:58,744
And the model is effectively the same path

1268
00:43:58,744 --> 00:44:00,984
I took, just more compressed. The idea is

1269
00:44:00,984 --> 00:44:02,525
you come here to learn skills.

1270
00:44:03,949 --> 00:44:05,250
The skills of being

1271
00:44:05,710 --> 00:44:07,710
with your own experience of self and then

1272
00:44:07,710 --> 00:44:09,569
the present moment, AKA self empowerment,

1273
00:44:10,269 --> 00:44:11,650
and being with the other,

1274
00:44:12,030 --> 00:44:13,089
like in a community,

1275
00:44:13,549 --> 00:44:14,289
AKA connection.

1276
00:44:15,324 --> 00:44:16,785
You practice these skills

1277
00:44:17,644 --> 00:44:18,385
in workshops,

1278
00:44:19,324 --> 00:44:21,985
and you grow your capacity to to meet

1279
00:44:22,204 --> 00:44:23,025
your experience.

1280
00:44:24,045 --> 00:44:26,144
So that when you go into the psychedelic,

1281
00:44:26,525 --> 00:44:29,269
something that would normally trigger you, let's say

1282
00:44:29,329 --> 00:44:31,090
a trauma with a capital T comes up,

1283
00:44:31,090 --> 00:44:32,690
let's say you're a combat veteran and you're

1284
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:35,170
reliving an experience of your friend dying in

1285
00:44:35,170 --> 00:44:37,489
front of you, which we've had, instead of

1286
00:44:37,489 --> 00:44:39,809
fight flight or freezing in that moment, you

1287
00:44:39,809 --> 00:44:41,570
now have the skills and the capacity to

1288
00:44:41,570 --> 00:44:44,230
meet it with greater fullness. And then boom,

1289
00:44:44,555 --> 00:44:46,075
what that does is instead of what would

1290
00:44:46,075 --> 00:44:48,095
normally become a bad trip,

1291
00:44:48,795 --> 00:44:50,494
now has the opportunity to become

1292
00:44:51,355 --> 00:44:51,855
fuel

1293
00:44:52,235 --> 00:44:53,375
for your transformation,

1294
00:44:54,075 --> 00:44:56,095
for your deeper understanding of yourself.

1295
00:44:56,650 --> 00:44:58,909
But here's the kicker. Here's the best part.

1296
00:44:59,610 --> 00:45:01,309
While that experience is valuable,

1297
00:45:02,090 --> 00:45:03,929
the most valuable thing is that you did

1298
00:45:03,929 --> 00:45:04,429
it

1299
00:45:04,809 --> 00:45:06,489
and that you know how to do it

1300
00:45:06,489 --> 00:45:08,824
because you're gonna go home to life and

1301
00:45:08,824 --> 00:45:10,525
life is going to continue to life.

1302
00:45:11,065 --> 00:45:13,545
You know, Buddhism says, everything that you love,

1303
00:45:13,545 --> 00:45:14,364
you will lose.

1304
00:45:14,904 --> 00:45:16,824
We will lose our parents. We will lose

1305
00:45:16,824 --> 00:45:18,364
our loved ones. We will lose our pets.

1306
00:45:18,505 --> 00:45:20,505
We'll lose our jobs. We will lose it

1307
00:45:20,505 --> 00:45:21,005
all

1308
00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:24,019
to time. And so how do we prepare

1309
00:45:24,019 --> 00:45:25,880
ourselves for the continuation

1310
00:45:26,260 --> 00:45:29,300
of life and its inevitable loss? The way

1311
00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:31,059
that we do that is through the same

1312
00:45:31,059 --> 00:45:34,340
mechanism, through skills and capacity, through mindfulness and

1313
00:45:34,340 --> 00:45:34,840
skillfulness.

1314
00:45:35,815 --> 00:45:38,235
And so by practicing this on ourselves

1315
00:45:38,775 --> 00:45:41,335
in a psychedelic, we're able to then translate

1316
00:45:41,335 --> 00:45:42,795
that into the three d world

1317
00:45:43,094 --> 00:45:45,015
and integrate that into our life. I mean,

1318
00:45:45,015 --> 00:45:47,015
I spent a lot of high school on

1319
00:45:47,015 --> 00:45:48,715
LSD, but, it obliterates

1320
00:45:49,175 --> 00:45:49,675
the

1321
00:45:50,180 --> 00:45:52,900
the guards at the gate, which is also

1322
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:54,660
helpful when you're trying to get into those

1323
00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:57,380
spaces. How do you know when people come

1324
00:45:57,380 --> 00:45:58,039
to you

1325
00:45:59,140 --> 00:46:02,280
which pathway is the pathway? Whether it's

1326
00:46:02,660 --> 00:46:05,220
psilocybin or ayahuasca? Because those are two totally

1327
00:46:05,220 --> 00:46:05,720
different

1328
00:46:06,485 --> 00:46:06,985
beings.

1329
00:46:07,844 --> 00:46:08,905
Totally. Well,

1330
00:46:09,765 --> 00:46:10,905
I'm gonna first answer

1331
00:46:11,605 --> 00:46:13,304
more generally and then, and then

1332
00:46:13,844 --> 00:46:15,065
that specific question.

1333
00:46:15,364 --> 00:46:16,644
How do we know what pathway is the

1334
00:46:16,644 --> 00:46:17,304
right pathway?

1335
00:46:17,605 --> 00:46:19,445
What I've discovered is no matter if you're

1336
00:46:19,445 --> 00:46:22,599
a starving artist or you are a billionaire,

1337
00:46:22,980 --> 00:46:25,619
and we've had those two kinds of people

1338
00:46:25,619 --> 00:46:28,260
in the very same circle, everything funnels to

1339
00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:30,519
the same place, which is this question,

1340
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:33,059
do you love yourself? Can you be with

1341
00:46:33,059 --> 00:46:33,800
what is?

1342
00:46:34,375 --> 00:46:36,614
Be with this experience now. Now as to

1343
00:46:36,614 --> 00:46:38,795
the question of psilocybin versus ayahuasca,

1344
00:46:39,095 --> 00:46:40,635
we get asked this a lot.

1345
00:46:41,655 --> 00:46:43,894
We have different levels in ceremonial. Our level

1346
00:46:43,894 --> 00:46:45,575
one is with psilocybin, our level two is

1347
00:46:45,575 --> 00:46:46,235
with ayahuasca.

1348
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:47,819
And the reason why

1349
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,099
that's the case

1350
00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:51,559
is because ayahuasca is typically held in a

1351
00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:54,119
very shamanic container. So for you to become

1352
00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:54,780
an ayahuasquero,

1353
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:55,819
at least

1354
00:46:56,679 --> 00:46:58,920
one that I might recommend to somebody, would

1355
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,679
require you to go train in the jungle

1356
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:01,500
drinking ayahuasca

1357
00:47:01,844 --> 00:47:02,824
a few times a

1358
00:47:03,125 --> 00:47:04,105
week for years,

1359
00:47:04,644 --> 00:47:05,144
and

1360
00:47:05,605 --> 00:47:08,164
then apprentice for years in ceremonies, and then

1361
00:47:08,164 --> 00:47:10,905
finally you conserve medicine. So to become Ayahuascaro

1362
00:47:11,925 --> 00:47:12,425
is

1363
00:47:12,965 --> 00:47:15,144
a lot more than getting a PhD

1364
00:47:15,809 --> 00:47:18,610
in any subject matter. The benefit of that

1365
00:47:18,610 --> 00:47:19,670
is that you're getting,

1366
00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:21,430
when you sit with Ayahuasca,

1367
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:24,550
assuming the shaman or the facilitator is

1368
00:47:24,849 --> 00:47:26,449
a good one, and by the way, I

1369
00:47:26,449 --> 00:47:29,250
know hundreds of facilitators, I only trust six

1370
00:47:29,250 --> 00:47:30,965
of them, and and the ones that serve

1371
00:47:30,965 --> 00:47:31,864
medicine here.

1372
00:47:32,324 --> 00:47:33,844
But when you're sitting with someone, you're getting

1373
00:47:33,844 --> 00:47:36,324
their lineage, the oral traditions and their training

1374
00:47:36,324 --> 00:47:38,265
that's been passed on through thousands of years.

1375
00:47:38,485 --> 00:47:40,324
There's a lot of beauty in that, but

1376
00:47:40,324 --> 00:47:42,744
there's also baggage in that. Because it includes

1377
00:47:42,804 --> 00:47:44,585
dogma, it includes their beliefs.

1378
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:47,380
So I often say to people, one way

1379
00:47:47,380 --> 00:47:50,579
to discern whether a facilitator is spiritually safe

1380
00:47:50,579 --> 00:47:52,519
for you is to challenge their beliefs.

1381
00:47:52,820 --> 00:47:54,260
They say, you ask them, what do you

1382
00:47:54,260 --> 00:47:56,180
believe in? And then the follow-up question is,

1383
00:47:56,180 --> 00:47:57,554
how do you know that to be true?

1384
00:47:57,714 --> 00:47:59,014
And if they get triggered,

1385
00:47:59,474 --> 00:48:01,815
please run away because it's very likely that

1386
00:48:01,954 --> 00:48:03,234
they're not gonna create the room for you

1387
00:48:03,234 --> 00:48:05,635
to discover your own beliefs. So when you're

1388
00:48:05,635 --> 00:48:08,434
in a container where the facilitator is carrying

1389
00:48:08,434 --> 00:48:09,335
their own baggage

1390
00:48:09,650 --> 00:48:10,869
and serving you medicine,

1391
00:48:11,410 --> 00:48:14,230
it's really important that you as a participant

1392
00:48:14,690 --> 00:48:15,989
have enough skillfulness

1393
00:48:16,610 --> 00:48:19,730
and mindfulness, right? AKA the training that we

1394
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:21,110
provide off the medicine,

1395
00:48:21,984 --> 00:48:24,385
for you to be able to discern what

1396
00:48:24,385 --> 00:48:25,445
is true for you.

1397
00:48:25,824 --> 00:48:26,644
In other words,

1398
00:48:27,344 --> 00:48:29,264
if you have an experience, the mind attempts

1399
00:48:29,264 --> 00:48:30,804
to make meaning out of that experience.

1400
00:48:31,744 --> 00:48:33,840
Attempts to put form into that meaning. So

1401
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,920
one of our alumni is the president of

1402
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,220
Unity Church, a mega

1403
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,599
church in The U. S. Mega Christian church.

1404
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:40,099
Right?

1405
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:41,780
So he has an experience,

1406
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,360
and he experiences Christ consciousness. We had someone

1407
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,539
else who's Muslim. He has an experience,

1408
00:48:48,065 --> 00:48:50,224
and he experienced Allah. We have someone who's

1409
00:48:50,224 --> 00:48:52,385
atheist that comes in. He has an experience,

1410
00:48:52,385 --> 00:48:53,744
and he has something that he can only

1411
00:48:53,744 --> 00:48:54,565
call spiritual

1412
00:48:55,105 --> 00:48:56,565
spirituality. My point is,

1413
00:48:57,265 --> 00:48:58,325
it's with Ayahuasca,

1414
00:48:59,025 --> 00:49:02,704
it's more challenging for you to discern what

1415
00:49:02,704 --> 00:49:03,525
is yours

1416
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:04,940
because

1417
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:07,719
of the impression from the outside, from the

1418
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,699
shamanic history and container. With psilocybin,

1419
00:49:11,079 --> 00:49:13,079
the kind of training well, you know, we're

1420
00:49:13,079 --> 00:49:15,079
one of a few licensed center a few

1421
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:17,239
centers in Colorado be approved to train and

1422
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,784
license facilitators here under Colorado state law.

1423
00:49:20,585 --> 00:49:21,244
And so,

1424
00:49:21,545 --> 00:49:23,944
our training program is nine months long, and

1425
00:49:23,944 --> 00:49:25,085
then you can serve medicine.

1426
00:49:25,385 --> 00:49:27,065
In a perfect world, I would make that

1427
00:49:27,065 --> 00:49:29,864
much longer, but of course accessibility and so

1428
00:49:29,864 --> 00:49:32,025
on and so forth. The point is, people

1429
00:49:32,025 --> 00:49:32,525
can

1430
00:49:33,380 --> 00:49:33,880
have

1431
00:49:34,180 --> 00:49:36,760
the level of training from the get go

1432
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:38,119
to be able to

1433
00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:39,320
make room

1434
00:49:39,860 --> 00:49:41,800
for everyone else's beliefs

1435
00:49:42,260 --> 00:49:43,559
more easily with psilocybin.

1436
00:49:43,860 --> 00:49:46,360
Psilocybin versus Ayahuasca, I would say

1437
00:49:46,775 --> 00:49:48,795
I advocate for doing psilocybin first

1438
00:49:49,655 --> 00:49:50,155
with

1439
00:49:50,695 --> 00:49:51,195
training

1440
00:49:51,655 --> 00:49:52,715
so that you can

1441
00:49:53,655 --> 00:49:55,355
have the tools to support you,

1442
00:49:55,655 --> 00:49:58,155
and then Ayahuasca after that because

1443
00:49:59,109 --> 00:50:01,369
it's an absolutely beautiful medicine that

1444
00:50:01,670 --> 00:50:03,449
is my teacher. I just

1445
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:05,929
would caution people to do Ayahuasca

1446
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:08,230
right off the bat because it's so easy

1447
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:10,869
for the mind to assign the healing agent

1448
00:50:10,869 --> 00:50:13,105
to something outside of themselves. Oh, it's the

1449
00:50:13,105 --> 00:50:15,105
shaman healing me, it's the music healing me,

1450
00:50:15,105 --> 00:50:16,864
it's the medicine or the plant spirit healing

1451
00:50:16,864 --> 00:50:17,364
me.

1452
00:50:18,144 --> 00:50:19,505
The danger of that is when you go

1453
00:50:19,505 --> 00:50:20,005
home,

1454
00:50:21,585 --> 00:50:23,585
that same process can be ingrained, and so

1455
00:50:23,585 --> 00:50:25,985
now suddenly when you have when life continues

1456
00:50:25,985 --> 00:50:28,519
to life, you're like, damn, where's my shaman?

1457
00:50:29,059 --> 00:50:30,519
Or I need to drink Ayahuasca.

1458
00:50:31,219 --> 00:50:31,719
Or

1459
00:50:32,260 --> 00:50:33,880
the flip side of the coin is victimhood.

1460
00:50:34,019 --> 00:50:35,860
Oh, it's something outside of me that's causing

1461
00:50:35,860 --> 00:50:38,360
me to feel this way. Mercury's in retrograde,

1462
00:50:38,420 --> 00:50:40,119
therefore that's why I'm an asshole.

1463
00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:42,680
Right. You know?

1464
00:50:43,194 --> 00:50:45,275
Yeah. So everything that we're doing is aimed

1465
00:50:45,275 --> 00:50:45,775
towards

1466
00:50:46,074 --> 00:50:47,775
people feeling their own heart.

1467
00:50:48,394 --> 00:50:49,614
How does Austin,

1468
00:50:49,914 --> 00:50:50,655
the man,

1469
00:50:51,755 --> 00:50:52,255
live

1470
00:50:52,875 --> 00:50:53,454
a life

1471
00:50:53,755 --> 00:50:56,335
outside of Austin, the facilitator

1472
00:50:56,635 --> 00:50:57,534
and the

1473
00:50:58,380 --> 00:50:59,599
person who

1474
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:03,440
is present and

1475
00:51:04,139 --> 00:51:06,139
in it, not of it. They how did

1476
00:51:06,139 --> 00:51:09,019
you have an ability to detach even from

1477
00:51:09,019 --> 00:51:09,679
the detachment

1478
00:51:10,059 --> 00:51:10,695
to just,

1479
00:51:11,175 --> 00:51:13,015
you know, chill out, eat popcorn, and watch

1480
00:51:13,015 --> 00:51:15,175
a movie in your own life? Not literally,

1481
00:51:15,175 --> 00:51:15,675
but

1482
00:51:16,295 --> 00:51:18,555
metaphorically speaking? Yeah. Totally.

1483
00:51:18,934 --> 00:51:20,715
You know, I don't preach from a pulpit.

1484
00:51:20,775 --> 00:51:21,594
I I'm

1485
00:51:21,894 --> 00:51:25,114
human, and I do human things. Yesterday,

1486
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:26,699
I was at

1487
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,719
a party at my friend's bar, and, you

1488
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,579
know, and I go to Burning Man,

1489
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,579
and, you know, I date, and I

1490
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:37,820
I'm of course a man.

1491
00:51:38,224 --> 00:51:40,144
And I'm still on my path too. You

1492
00:51:40,144 --> 00:51:42,244
know, a really big part of this work,

1493
00:51:42,465 --> 00:51:44,704
in my opinion, is to bring the fullness

1494
00:51:44,704 --> 00:51:46,724
of our own being, even as facilitators,

1495
00:51:47,744 --> 00:51:50,085
into the container. So that we can model

1496
00:51:50,304 --> 00:51:51,605
vulnerability and authenticity.

1497
00:51:51,985 --> 00:51:53,125
As long as like,

1498
00:51:53,489 --> 00:51:55,030
you know that we got you,

1499
00:51:55,409 --> 00:51:57,650
AKA like we got our shit together enough

1500
00:51:57,650 --> 00:51:58,710
that we got you.

1501
00:51:59,409 --> 00:52:00,230
I think that's

1502
00:52:00,610 --> 00:52:02,630
that's as long as there's that,

1503
00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:03,670
then,

1504
00:52:04,130 --> 00:52:06,610
I advocate for all of our facilitators to

1505
00:52:06,610 --> 00:52:07,110
bring

1506
00:52:08,144 --> 00:52:10,565
everything. And just as we would expect

1507
00:52:11,025 --> 00:52:13,525
or advocate for the participants to do themselves.

1508
00:52:14,065 --> 00:52:15,824
May I ask your dad's name? I like

1509
00:52:15,824 --> 00:52:17,664
to say the names of the people who

1510
00:52:17,664 --> 00:52:20,244
have passed so that they have their immortality

1511
00:52:20,625 --> 00:52:21,125
intact.

1512
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,059
Yeah. His name is Jeff. Jeff. Hi, Jeff.

1513
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:26,420
What do you see

1514
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:27,860
moving forward

1515
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,940
for your work? Will it

1516
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,360
is there room for expansion in this kind

1517
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,700
of work when you know that these tools

1518
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,300
at your disposal are

1519
00:52:37,775 --> 00:52:38,594
so powerful.

1520
00:52:40,094 --> 00:52:42,494
I mean, I think working with veterans and

1521
00:52:42,494 --> 00:52:43,474
people with PTSD

1522
00:52:43,775 --> 00:52:44,994
and and survivors,

1523
00:52:45,295 --> 00:52:48,035
how do you grow without growing too

1524
00:52:48,735 --> 00:52:50,594
big? How does it not

1525
00:52:51,639 --> 00:52:52,139
become,

1526
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,239
a caricature of itself? You know what I

1527
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,059
mean? We're an extraordinarily unique organization.

1528
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,159
Most places, if you were to go, let's

1529
00:53:01,159 --> 00:53:03,559
say, ceremony, you come in, you shake hands,

1530
00:53:03,559 --> 00:53:05,559
a group of people, two hours later, you're

1531
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:06,460
tripping together.

1532
00:53:07,065 --> 00:53:09,005
The upside is, that can be pretty inexpensive.

1533
00:53:09,144 --> 00:53:10,984
Like in Denver, you can find a ceremony

1534
00:53:10,984 --> 00:53:12,105
for $250

1535
00:53:12,105 --> 00:53:12,684
a night.

1536
00:53:13,144 --> 00:53:13,885
And then

1537
00:53:14,344 --> 00:53:15,464
you go home at that night, or you

1538
00:53:15,464 --> 00:53:16,764
sleep on your mat that night.

1539
00:53:17,545 --> 00:53:20,460
The downside is that you're effectively doing spiritual

1540
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,460
and psychological surgery

1541
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:23,980
on yourself.

1542
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:25,019
And

1543
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,619
what is so important in that case

1544
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,079
is how safe do you feel? There's a

1545
00:53:31,079 --> 00:53:32,840
sharp limit to how safe you can possibly

1546
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,224
feel doing things with strangers that you haven't

1547
00:53:35,224 --> 00:53:37,545
met or talked to. And so, you know,

1548
00:53:37,545 --> 00:53:39,085
what we do here is,

1549
00:53:39,625 --> 00:53:41,864
in addition to the mindfulness and skillfulness, the

1550
00:53:41,864 --> 00:53:43,625
training that I shared with you, is we

1551
00:53:43,625 --> 00:53:45,244
build connection and we build community.

1552
00:53:45,704 --> 00:53:48,125
We gather every Sunday in perpetuity

1553
00:53:48,969 --> 00:53:51,130
as a community, all our alumni, and we

1554
00:53:51,130 --> 00:53:53,930
get anywhere between ten and fifty people at

1555
00:53:53,930 --> 00:53:54,510
a time

1556
00:53:55,050 --> 00:53:56,269
to come and we practice

1557
00:53:56,730 --> 00:53:57,469
our tools.

1558
00:53:57,849 --> 00:54:00,090
We practice being in community and relationship with

1559
00:54:00,090 --> 00:54:02,650
each other. What's really important to me, my

1560
00:54:02,650 --> 00:54:05,155
goal, is that this model that we've created

1561
00:54:05,775 --> 00:54:08,094
to provide some level of training and then

1562
00:54:08,094 --> 00:54:10,815
provide community for people that are undergoing this

1563
00:54:10,815 --> 00:54:12,835
transformational process, this model

1564
00:54:13,135 --> 00:54:16,114
doesn't stay unique to us. That it is

1565
00:54:16,574 --> 00:54:18,594
widely available and is the standard

1566
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:20,389
for the field at large.

1567
00:54:20,769 --> 00:54:22,690
And so, you know, I'm part of the

1568
00:54:22,690 --> 00:54:23,829
legislative process

1569
00:54:24,289 --> 00:54:25,190
in Colorado,

1570
00:54:25,569 --> 00:54:27,489
or one of the few centers that will

1571
00:54:27,489 --> 00:54:28,389
license people.

1572
00:54:28,929 --> 00:54:31,010
And, you know, my goal is to teach

1573
00:54:31,010 --> 00:54:33,489
people this model, and eventually open source this

1574
00:54:33,489 --> 00:54:36,155
model, so that facilitators of the future

1575
00:54:36,614 --> 00:54:39,835
can know that there is something, like, available

1576
00:54:40,535 --> 00:54:41,195
that provides

1577
00:54:41,494 --> 00:54:43,515
deep and durable healing beyond

1578
00:54:43,974 --> 00:54:44,474
what

1579
00:54:45,575 --> 00:54:47,820
we as facilitators can provide one on one.

1580
00:54:47,820 --> 00:54:48,800
And that's through

1581
00:54:49,579 --> 00:54:52,079
tools, that's through peer support, that's through community.

1582
00:54:53,099 --> 00:54:55,260
There's a limit to how much I can

1583
00:54:55,260 --> 00:54:57,340
help people. I still get messages from people

1584
00:54:57,340 --> 00:55:00,480
like telling me their challenges and and whatnot.

1585
00:55:01,514 --> 00:55:03,434
And I can't save everybody anymore. You know,

1586
00:55:03,434 --> 00:55:04,954
that's what I try to do with my

1587
00:55:04,954 --> 00:55:05,454
mom

1588
00:55:05,755 --> 00:55:08,174
and the woman in my life. And so,

1589
00:55:08,234 --> 00:55:08,894
you know,

1590
00:55:09,355 --> 00:55:11,594
my goal here now is is to spread

1591
00:55:11,594 --> 00:55:12,335
this model.

1592
00:55:12,635 --> 00:55:15,114
Do you have scholarship for people that can't

1593
00:55:15,114 --> 00:55:15,614
afford

1594
00:55:16,340 --> 00:55:17,800
maybe to to attend?

1595
00:55:18,179 --> 00:55:20,099
Absolutely. And and what I would say is,

1596
00:55:20,099 --> 00:55:21,400
you know, go on our website,

1597
00:55:22,019 --> 00:55:23,640
ceremoniacircle.org,

1598
00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:26,579
sign up for a breakthrough call. We might

1599
00:55:26,579 --> 00:55:28,199
move to webinar format soon,

1600
00:55:28,514 --> 00:55:30,674
and have the conversation. And we do what

1601
00:55:30,674 --> 00:55:32,994
we can to support you through a combination

1602
00:55:32,994 --> 00:55:33,815
of scholarship

1603
00:55:34,194 --> 00:55:34,694
and

1604
00:55:34,994 --> 00:55:35,894
payment plans.

1605
00:55:36,514 --> 00:55:37,414
We also have,

1606
00:55:37,714 --> 00:55:39,815
we're also about to release a

1607
00:55:40,194 --> 00:55:42,880
microdistant course called Awaken at Home, where it's

1608
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,880
a more elongated program. Right? A three month

1609
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,039
program where you're learning the tools and you're

1610
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:47,539
micro

1611
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,099
microdosing and going through a coaching container.

1612
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:52,159
There's lots of options that we're gonna make

1613
00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:52,659
available.

1614
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:55,359
I'm assuming those things are done on Zoom

1615
00:55:55,359 --> 00:55:57,219
or some sort of a video conferencing,

1616
00:55:57,755 --> 00:55:59,515
as well as the check-in you were talking

1617
00:55:59,515 --> 00:56:00,574
about of community?

1618
00:56:01,675 --> 00:56:03,054
Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.

1619
00:56:03,675 --> 00:56:04,735
God bless Zoom.

1620
00:56:05,914 --> 00:56:07,454
It's made the world smaller.

1621
00:56:08,074 --> 00:56:10,554
Austin, I really appreciate your time. This all

1622
00:56:10,554 --> 00:56:14,039
is is fascinating and something that I personally

1623
00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:15,819
am incredibly interested in.

1624
00:56:16,599 --> 00:56:17,420
My hope,

1625
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,799
regardless of how people find their way to

1626
00:56:21,799 --> 00:56:22,299
themselves,

1627
00:56:22,839 --> 00:56:26,059
that this will be a continual process for

1628
00:56:26,119 --> 00:56:26,619
humanity.

1629
00:56:27,454 --> 00:56:28,755
We desperately need

1630
00:56:29,775 --> 00:56:31,235
it. And I know it's scary,

1631
00:56:31,855 --> 00:56:32,355
but

1632
00:56:32,735 --> 00:56:35,215
it's my hope. Thank you so much, Susan.

1633
00:56:35,215 --> 00:56:36,594
This is this is beautiful.

1634
00:56:37,295 --> 00:56:39,135
Thank you for sharing your gifts to the

1635
00:56:39,135 --> 00:56:39,635
world.

1636
00:56:40,739 --> 00:56:42,179
Would love to have you in one of

1637
00:56:42,179 --> 00:56:44,840
our retreats. Let's set that up. Oh, absolutely.

1638
00:56:45,059 --> 00:56:45,559
I'm

1639
00:56:46,099 --> 00:56:48,659
I'm ex I've already before I even

1640
00:56:49,780 --> 00:56:51,159
when I got your information,

1641
00:56:52,099 --> 00:56:53,400
and I said, absolutely.

1642
00:56:54,105 --> 00:56:55,864
I would love to talk to Austin. And

1643
00:56:55,864 --> 00:56:57,784
then I started looking at the website, and

1644
00:56:57,784 --> 00:57:00,744
I've been sending it out to people like

1645
00:57:00,744 --> 00:57:01,244
crazy.

1646
00:57:01,784 --> 00:57:03,625
I wish I could I wish my parents

1647
00:57:03,625 --> 00:57:05,864
would do something like this. But, again, I

1648
00:57:05,864 --> 00:57:06,525
know that

1649
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:09,590
these are the types of things that it

1650
00:57:09,590 --> 00:57:12,230
will do no good unless you're ready. And

1651
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:13,210
you never know

1652
00:57:15,269 --> 00:57:17,590
you never know what might happen, for sure.

1653
00:57:17,590 --> 00:57:19,690
I mean, that's the beauty of life. But

1654
00:57:19,974 --> 00:57:21,574
I never thought I would do a cacao

1655
00:57:21,574 --> 00:57:24,135
ceremony. I thought, Wait, I drink hot chocolate?

1656
00:57:24,135 --> 00:57:25,734
What do you mean? You know? And it

1657
00:57:25,734 --> 00:57:26,875
was so powerful.

1658
00:57:27,414 --> 00:57:29,094
But I might not have been in a

1659
00:57:29,094 --> 00:57:31,094
place where I could have accepted that kind

1660
00:57:31,094 --> 00:57:31,675
of medicine

1661
00:57:32,269 --> 00:57:33,710
if I had done it any other time.

1662
00:57:33,710 --> 00:57:36,190
You just never know when those doors open,

1663
00:57:36,190 --> 00:57:38,190
and then the walking through it is a

1664
00:57:38,190 --> 00:57:39,329
whole other process.

1665
00:57:39,710 --> 00:57:41,250
Totally. Yeah. Totally.

1666
00:57:41,949 --> 00:57:43,569
Thank you for listening, everybody.

1667
00:57:44,589 --> 00:57:45,569
Thanks, Austin.

1668
00:57:46,589 --> 00:57:47,650
Thank you, Susan.

1669
00:57:51,364 --> 00:57:54,025
Great. Review and subscribe to Hey Human Podcast

1670
00:57:54,085 --> 00:57:55,785
wherever you get your podcasts.

1671
00:57:56,244 --> 00:57:56,744
Thanks.

1672
00:57:57,204 --> 00:57:57,704
Bye.