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Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here.

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Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey,

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Human podcast.

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Before I get into it all, I wanted

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to take a moment.

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The last couple weeks, I have not been

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putting out the show because

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I'm in LA, and it's been

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a lot.

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And

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I was evacuated

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once, twice, almost three times from different locations

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because the fire

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fires

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were raging

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and moving so quickly.

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They were saying that at a rate of

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acreage

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gobbling up about

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3 football fields a minute.

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I don't know if you can wrap your

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head around that. I can barely wrap my

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head around it. When I evacuated my place,

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I could see the flames.

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And doing the math in my head,

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I was pretty scared.

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And that night

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was hurricane force winds. It was a

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crazy

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amount of wind.

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The palm trees were dropping their fronds, like,

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I mean, everywhere.

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Everywhere, everywhere. And as I was driving away,

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I was trying to swerve to miss palm

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fronds, as were everybody else. And,

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yeah, it was like a whole thing. And

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then the second place I ended up by

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the way, shout out to the people that

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took me in. They did not know me

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personally.

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One woman knew me a little bit, but

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I was with other people. Everybody was sort

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of moving from place to place because

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everywhere we went, it became unsafe, and we'd

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have to go somewhere else. So I want

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to thank, specifically,

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Jenny,

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and I want to thank Karen and Mike,

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who so graciously

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let me into their homes and let me

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stay and spend the night and fed me

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and kept me safe,

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and everybody had dogs, and that was so

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wonderful, because

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it was really traumatic and scary

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and uncertain, and I thought for sure my

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place was gonna burn down.

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It didn't,

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but I really thought it was gonna,

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and those dogs

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and one cat,

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who was as old as the hills,

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kept in

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company, and were so loving and wonderful,

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as were the humans.

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And,

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yeah, so I didn't put out the show

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for 2 weeks because

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been dealing with all of that, Ended up

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going to see my family for a few

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days

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and to breathe some fresh air because the

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air in LA is really toxic right now.

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I already have issues with my voice in

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general and been coughing and things, so it

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was good to get away. All that to

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say,

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I just

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I'm trying to articulate it. I've been trying

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to think of how to talk about all

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of this.

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There are people that

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lost everything,

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literally everything, other than maybe the shirt on

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their back and the pants on their legs,

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and

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it's super traumatic for everyone. This

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I I cannot begin to describe what it's

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like to see the decimation.

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It's horrific.

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And

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watching this town come together and love each

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other and help each other and

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the survivor guilt for people whose homes didn't

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burn down,

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the grief that everyone's feeling,

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just the level of trauma is so high.

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And to the thousands

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of people that came in

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to save us, the firefighters,

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the EMTs,

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and the police, and,

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all of everybody, the evacuation route planners and

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the people at the WatchDuty app, who kept

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us all sane and insane at the same

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time, but thank God for that app. And

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thank you, John and Kathy Penny, my lifeline

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through much of the

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crises that we endured. They were so kind

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to let me tag along

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to all their different

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friends' houses.

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I would have lost

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myself

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had I not had them as a touchstone.

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And also, just the prayers and love and

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that everyone around the world poured into

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our town. Boy, did we feel it. I'm

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telling you,

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powerful

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amount of love.

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Thank you for that as well.

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It's,

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something I'll never forget, for sure,

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and

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it's it's a humbling,

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horrifying experience. I know I've probably said that

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word a few times, but I felt like

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it was important to speak to it and

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of it,

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before going into the episode. I know some

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people are wondering,

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and thank you for everybody that reached out.

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And for those who didn't totally get that

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too, I mean, what do you say to

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people? I don't know.

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You can't really say, how are you doing?

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Because

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nobody's doing well.

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But we know that we're in your thoughts,

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just like,

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man, all the tragedies,

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all the horrors of this world,

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the one thing that is

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clear to me is that when given the

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opportunity

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to come together, it's really it's beautiful to

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see humans helping humans and

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animals, too. Oh, God, the imagery of the

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animals. I can't even go there.

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All that to say

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is just, thank you, and we're back online

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with the show. And,

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I hope it gives you

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a little bit of escapism.

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And

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whatever you're going through, wherever you are in

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the world,

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I love you, and

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I am here thinking good thoughts and radiating

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them out.

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There is just so much stuff, y'all. Oh,

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my God.

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There,

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If you give blood, give blood.

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That's a really important thing

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just in general and everyday life saving kind

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of thing. If you're feeling like you might

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be in crisis,

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at least in the United States,

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you can dial 988,

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and there's people on the other line

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who will answer and be there for you

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emotionally. And and if you need it physically

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as well and can call someone. I don't

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know what the numbers are

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worldwide. I'm sure every country has its own

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number. Probably every state has its own number.

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But I know in America, it's 988 you

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can call. So please,

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it's a it's an insane time in general,

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and

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we need you here. Don't give up. Stick

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around,

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please.

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And if if you need someone,

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please reach out.

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And

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yeah. Alright.

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This is episode

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441,

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and my guest is Jay Zabriskie, who is

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a really good friend. Love him to death.

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He teaches at L. A. Film School and

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has been in the film industry for decades.

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I sat in on one of his classes,

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African American images in American cinema,

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fascinating,

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cool class,

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hard to watch at times, of course,

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and so incredibly important.

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And I asked him to be on the

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show to talk about

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his what he knows about the history

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and

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and really, I guess, sort of a recap

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of the class here on the show. I

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I mean, there's so much information. You can

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only get so much on the podcast, but

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I'm really glad he said yes. And, oh,

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also, he's in my short film, The First.

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He plays mister Heka. And,

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yeah, I just love Jay. He's the best,

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and I hope you do too. And in

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other news, I just finished

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a really good book. It's called In My

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Time of Dying by Sebastian Junger.

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I really love Sebastian's work, so I was

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excited to read this. It's really good. I

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highly recommend it.

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Other stuff, check out hey human podcast.com

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for links and to learn more about my

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guests and the show. Hey Human Podcast is

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on YouTube under official Susan Ruth. I'm on

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patreon at susanruthism,

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TikTok, Instagram,

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susanruthism

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susanruth.com

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to learn more about me and my other

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artistic

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endeavors. Find my albums on Spotify, Apple Music,

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or wherever you get your music. Rate, review,

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and subscribe to Hey Human Podcast on Apple,

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Iheart, and Spotify,

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or wherever you get your podcast. It's pretty

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much everywhere.

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And thank you for listening.

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Be well. Be kind.

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Be love.

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And here we go.

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Jay Zabriskie, welcome to Hey Human.

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Thank you. It's good to be here. Lovely

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to see you, friend.

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Yes. I know. Isn't that nice to have

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a chat with a friend? Yeah. It is.

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It it makes for a different kind of

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conversation.

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I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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So firstly, we're gonna talk about what shaped

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you as a person growing up.

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But in reference to Jay was kind enough

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to be in my short film, The First.

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He played mister Heckeff, which is great in

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the opening scene. I got to read a

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book upside down in French. Yeah. You read

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a book upside down. Well, nobody knew it

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was upside down. No. No. Yeah. But it

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is it is funny to know that now

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watching it.

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But you you know, a god can do

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that kinda thing. That's true. I flipped it

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around. You know? Yeah. Just to show off

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a little. I I was totally comfortable reading

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it upside down. It was great.

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You teach at LA Film School. Mhmm. And

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I was lucky enough to sit in one

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of your classes. Thank you for that invitation.

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That was a lovely day. I was honored

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to have you. Yeah. It was really fun.

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And thank you for being here. You were

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very kind to say yes. So let's jump

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in

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and start with, where are you from? How

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did your upbringing shape you? It's funny. I

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was ready to talk about,

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African American images. So We're gonna do that

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too. Oh, absolutely. No, I know. What shaped

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me? Well, I I will tell you, honestly,

279
00:10:22,134 --> 00:10:24,294
I'm a child of the sixties. I was

280
00:10:24,294 --> 00:10:25,514
very much aware,

281
00:10:25,815 --> 00:10:27,574
although I was too young to participate in

282
00:10:27,574 --> 00:10:29,595
any of the civil rights activities,

283
00:10:30,054 --> 00:10:31,894
but I was very aware of it. My

284
00:10:31,894 --> 00:10:34,980
father, I think, in particular, had a great

285
00:10:34,980 --> 00:10:36,759
deal of influence on me because

286
00:10:37,139 --> 00:10:38,679
he certainly was an intellectual.

287
00:10:39,779 --> 00:10:42,659
And he introduced me to James Baldwin, and

288
00:10:42,659 --> 00:10:44,559
he introduced me to,

289
00:10:45,299 --> 00:10:46,514
W. E. B. Du Bois

290
00:10:46,835 --> 00:10:49,014
and and the black writers of the time,

291
00:10:49,475 --> 00:10:51,975
historically and and currently. Dick Gregory

292
00:10:52,355 --> 00:10:54,054
was an amazing comedian,

293
00:10:54,434 --> 00:10:56,514
very, very active in the civil rights movement.

294
00:10:56,514 --> 00:10:58,295
And so I had that kind of background.

295
00:10:58,899 --> 00:10:59,639
And, also,

296
00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:02,259
when the New York City school system went

297
00:11:02,259 --> 00:11:03,000
on strike,

298
00:11:03,860 --> 00:11:04,519
I actually

299
00:11:05,539 --> 00:11:07,940
was a child who went to the Black

300
00:11:07,940 --> 00:11:10,580
Panthers breakfast program. So I was aware of

301
00:11:10,580 --> 00:11:13,285
this this entity called the Black Panthers, you

302
00:11:13,285 --> 00:11:15,045
know, on top of being aware of the

303
00:11:15,045 --> 00:11:15,865
Student Nonviolent

304
00:11:16,245 --> 00:11:17,785
Coordinating Committee, SNCC,

305
00:11:18,165 --> 00:11:20,325
aware of the March on Washington and all

306
00:11:20,325 --> 00:11:22,485
these, you know, these things that were going

307
00:11:22,485 --> 00:11:22,985
on,

308
00:11:23,939 --> 00:11:24,759
at the time.

309
00:11:25,379 --> 00:11:27,459
So I I just think I was aware

310
00:11:27,459 --> 00:11:29,939
of of civil rights. I was aware of

311
00:11:29,939 --> 00:11:32,500
human rights. I was aware, you know, what

312
00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:34,659
it meant to be a thinking person, I

313
00:11:34,659 --> 00:11:35,959
guess. And

314
00:11:36,495 --> 00:11:38,014
in the work that I do now with

315
00:11:38,014 --> 00:11:39,634
the students, I try to

316
00:11:40,174 --> 00:11:42,034
encourage them to do the same thing,

317
00:11:42,414 --> 00:11:44,254
to think outside of the things that we're

318
00:11:44,254 --> 00:11:44,654
doing.

319
00:11:45,214 --> 00:11:47,075
I'm not supposed to have political

320
00:11:47,534 --> 00:11:48,995
discussions in my class,

321
00:11:49,455 --> 00:11:49,955
but

322
00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:51,139
invariably,

323
00:11:51,919 --> 00:11:54,959
they come up because filmmaking is about life.

324
00:11:54,959 --> 00:11:57,519
Filmmaking is about things that are going on

325
00:11:57,519 --> 00:11:59,759
around you. So how can you not discuss

326
00:11:59,759 --> 00:12:01,620
the things that are going on around you?

327
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,839
And I'm very interested in what the young

328
00:12:03,839 --> 00:12:06,054
people in my class have to say, and

329
00:12:06,054 --> 00:12:08,235
and are are they thinking about these things?

330
00:12:08,375 --> 00:12:09,654
So those are the kinds of things I

331
00:12:09,654 --> 00:12:12,075
think that shaped me. Were your parents particularly

332
00:12:12,615 --> 00:12:13,115
political?

333
00:12:14,134 --> 00:12:17,514
No. No. My father was was an atheist.

334
00:12:17,929 --> 00:12:19,070
My mom was

335
00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:19,990
a

336
00:12:20,409 --> 00:12:21,789
certified public accountant.

337
00:12:22,809 --> 00:12:24,110
She was very independent.

338
00:12:25,129 --> 00:12:26,429
When my parents divorced,

339
00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:28,429
she managed to

340
00:12:28,889 --> 00:12:29,950
raise me and

341
00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:31,870
my 3 brothers,

342
00:12:32,825 --> 00:12:33,485
as well

343
00:12:33,865 --> 00:12:35,085
as pursue her career,

344
00:12:35,625 --> 00:12:38,184
becoming a certified public accountant, which is hard,

345
00:12:38,184 --> 00:12:40,665
one of the few African American women to

346
00:12:40,665 --> 00:12:42,045
do so at the time,

347
00:12:43,065 --> 00:12:45,545
and was quite successful at it. My dad

348
00:12:45,545 --> 00:12:46,684
was in banking.

349
00:12:47,580 --> 00:12:49,740
They shared numbers clearly when they were Yeah.

350
00:12:49,740 --> 00:12:52,080
They did. It didn't transfer to me.

351
00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:54,399
Yeah. I'm not big on numbers.

352
00:12:54,779 --> 00:12:56,700
But but, you know, when you talk about

353
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:58,000
things that shape you,

354
00:12:58,620 --> 00:13:00,700
I will tell you this. My grandparents had

355
00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:02,080
a lot to do with it too.

356
00:13:02,815 --> 00:13:05,394
My grandma my grandparents survived the depression,

357
00:13:06,495 --> 00:13:07,714
and they were able

358
00:13:08,254 --> 00:13:10,495
to buy property out on Long Island in

359
00:13:10,495 --> 00:13:11,235
an area

360
00:13:11,855 --> 00:13:12,355
that

361
00:13:12,815 --> 00:13:14,595
very few black people did,

362
00:13:15,299 --> 00:13:16,279
in in the Hamptons.

363
00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:18,679
We still have some of that property left.

364
00:13:19,139 --> 00:13:21,720
But my grandmother used to wash people's clothing,

365
00:13:22,179 --> 00:13:24,679
my mother's mother, in the, in the depression,

366
00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:26,600
and my grandfather

367
00:13:27,139 --> 00:13:30,759
painted flagpoles in the, for the US Navy.

368
00:13:31,674 --> 00:13:33,375
So, you know, I'd come out of this

369
00:13:33,434 --> 00:13:35,454
lower middle class work ethic.

370
00:13:35,834 --> 00:13:37,054
My mother's father

371
00:13:37,514 --> 00:13:39,454
was a chauffeur and

372
00:13:40,154 --> 00:13:41,534
a bank guard,

373
00:13:42,634 --> 00:13:45,600
in New York. And, for black people, this

374
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,259
was very rare. A black owned bank?

375
00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:50,960
No. No. No. Dry dock savings bank. Very,

376
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,120
very much a a white owned bank. It's

377
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,720
no I don't think I think dry dock

378
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,100
was was bought

379
00:13:56,595 --> 00:13:59,154
by another bank, but growing up, it was

380
00:13:59,154 --> 00:13:59,654
Drydock.

381
00:14:00,355 --> 00:14:02,355
At any rate so, you know, I have

382
00:14:02,355 --> 00:14:04,355
this I have this sort of can do

383
00:14:04,355 --> 00:14:07,174
background from from my parents and my grandparents.

384
00:14:07,714 --> 00:14:09,095
These are all very American

385
00:14:09,634 --> 00:14:10,134
industrial

386
00:14:10,549 --> 00:14:12,649
put your head down and work type positions.

387
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:15,350
Very much so. Very much so. But it

388
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:16,889
also made me very aware

389
00:14:17,589 --> 00:14:19,829
of the position of African Americans in white

390
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:20,329
society.

391
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:23,350
My father chafed at that and and paid

392
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:25,289
penalties for that because he

393
00:14:25,674 --> 00:14:27,934
was very much he was a very intelligent

394
00:14:27,995 --> 00:14:30,095
man and very outspoken man

395
00:14:31,514 --> 00:14:33,774
and really did not like

396
00:14:34,795 --> 00:14:35,295
the

397
00:14:35,835 --> 00:14:37,134
vessels that he was

398
00:14:37,754 --> 00:14:39,934
put into. He wanted to be an architect

399
00:14:40,779 --> 00:14:41,100
and,

400
00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:44,940
felt that there was no no place for

401
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:46,940
him to be to be an architect. So

402
00:14:46,940 --> 00:14:49,419
he he went into banking and and so

403
00:14:49,419 --> 00:14:52,000
forth. Ultimately ended up in the state department

404
00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:53,679
and and did very well,

405
00:14:54,164 --> 00:14:56,164
Not, you know, not in the diplomatic side,

406
00:14:56,164 --> 00:14:58,404
but on the the nuts and bolts side.

407
00:14:58,404 --> 00:15:00,565
That's that's, where I come from. You know?

408
00:15:00,565 --> 00:15:02,085
Where are you in the birth order of

409
00:15:02,085 --> 00:15:02,745
your siblings?

410
00:15:03,205 --> 00:15:04,345
I'm number 1.

411
00:15:04,804 --> 00:15:05,784
Eldest child.

412
00:15:07,445 --> 00:15:08,504
I'm number 1.

413
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:09,980
Regardless.

414
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,440
Ask me. No. No, I am. Ask my

415
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,620
brothers. They tell me I picked on them.

416
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,200
Very close in age? 18 months for my

417
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,179
nearest one,

418
00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:21,660
7 years for the next one,

419
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:22,779
and then

420
00:15:23,735 --> 00:15:26,294
20 years for the for the third one,

421
00:15:26,294 --> 00:15:29,334
because my mother decided to marry again after

422
00:15:29,334 --> 00:15:32,235
my parents had split. And, she had another

423
00:15:32,294 --> 00:15:34,214
another child. Yeah. I didn't pick on him

424
00:15:34,214 --> 00:15:36,315
too much because he was a baby. So,

425
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:38,950
but, the other brother certainly felt that I

426
00:15:38,950 --> 00:15:40,549
had picked on them. I I don't have

427
00:15:40,549 --> 00:15:42,470
that memory. I I don't think so. Well,

428
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:44,629
like I say, every child grows up in

429
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:46,790
a different family. It even in in their

430
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:49,290
own family, every child grows with different parents.

431
00:15:50,174 --> 00:15:52,274
I think every sibling has a completely

432
00:15:52,735 --> 00:15:54,514
different they have shared experiences.

433
00:15:55,215 --> 00:15:57,134
But in general, I think every child has

434
00:15:57,134 --> 00:15:59,294
a different experience and a different set of

435
00:15:59,294 --> 00:16:01,455
parents growing up in a family. I think

436
00:16:01,455 --> 00:16:03,215
that's a good point because, you know, as

437
00:16:03,215 --> 00:16:03,875
they say,

438
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,840
you know, you can never step in the

439
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,179
same place in a river twice.

440
00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:09,860
And so

441
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,879
your parents are maturing as, you know, the

442
00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:14,879
next sibling comes along. So they meet different

443
00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:17,440
parents that have experiences and they know what

444
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,259
not to do,

445
00:16:18,955 --> 00:16:20,014
what to do,

446
00:16:20,714 --> 00:16:23,274
as I certainly have learned. My own kids,

447
00:16:23,274 --> 00:16:24,554
yeah, that's a that's a good that's a

448
00:16:24,554 --> 00:16:26,394
good observation. But, see, that's why you're such

449
00:16:26,394 --> 00:16:27,134
a good writer.

450
00:16:28,634 --> 00:16:31,274
You know? The human experience is such a

451
00:16:31,274 --> 00:16:32,735
key one. Oh, yeah.

452
00:16:33,470 --> 00:16:35,309
Growing as you grew up in New York

453
00:16:35,309 --> 00:16:37,789
then. Yeah. Completely. I'm a I'm a New

454
00:16:37,789 --> 00:16:39,789
York kid. I love New York. I I

455
00:16:39,789 --> 00:16:41,569
was just there over the holidays.

456
00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:43,470
It reminded me what I love about it

457
00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:45,329
and why I let why I didn't

458
00:16:46,095 --> 00:16:48,254
not unhappy that I left, you know? Because

459
00:16:48,254 --> 00:16:49,534
I got off the plane in LA and

460
00:16:49,534 --> 00:16:51,774
it was balmy and sunny. I was like,

461
00:16:51,774 --> 00:16:55,235
oh, yeah. Yeah. It is lovely and sunny.

462
00:16:55,855 --> 00:16:58,815
Growing up, especially as a first child in

463
00:16:58,815 --> 00:16:59,394
the family

464
00:17:00,230 --> 00:17:03,209
and an understanding of of blackness

465
00:17:03,829 --> 00:17:06,710
and moving through those spaces as a as

466
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:08,809
a black boy, a black man,

467
00:17:09,589 --> 00:17:12,230
and having parents who, you know, who have

468
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:13,929
come up in the American dream.

469
00:17:14,515 --> 00:17:16,515
Did it did it alter, do you think,

470
00:17:16,515 --> 00:17:19,394
maybe your experience from other people you knew

471
00:17:19,394 --> 00:17:20,134
or friends

472
00:17:20,755 --> 00:17:22,755
of people you went you know, high school

473
00:17:22,755 --> 00:17:23,734
friends and things?

474
00:17:24,835 --> 00:17:27,154
Well, you know, it's funny because I would

475
00:17:27,154 --> 00:17:27,894
say that

476
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:31,880
okay. Let's see if I can put this

477
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,619
in perspective.

478
00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:33,819
My

479
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:34,700
path

480
00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:38,299
was I went to an all black elementary

481
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:39,740
school. And then

482
00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:42,279
right around that time, they decided that it

483
00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:43,500
was a great idea

484
00:17:44,755 --> 00:17:47,015
to ship me off to a white school,

485
00:17:47,795 --> 00:17:50,775
to try to, you know, to integrate it.

486
00:17:51,474 --> 00:17:52,994
I don't know who was supposed to benefit

487
00:17:52,994 --> 00:17:54,674
from that, but I was really happy where

488
00:17:54,674 --> 00:17:56,674
I was because I went to

489
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,799
I had to take 2 buses and 2

490
00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:01,420
trains to get to the school.

491
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,660
And I'll never forget, my mom

492
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,700
I was 12, I guess. And my mom

493
00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:09,640
said, okay. Now I'm gonna show you how

494
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,640
to get to school. So she went with

495
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,545
me. Took time off from work,

496
00:18:14,484 --> 00:18:16,404
went with me, put me on, this is

497
00:18:16,404 --> 00:18:18,825
the 1st bus. This is the 1st train.

498
00:18:19,445 --> 00:18:20,744
It's the 2nd train.

499
00:18:21,125 --> 00:18:23,525
This is the 2nd bus. This is where

500
00:18:23,525 --> 00:18:25,605
you get off. Now you remember how we

501
00:18:25,605 --> 00:18:27,045
got here because you're going to come home

502
00:18:27,045 --> 00:18:29,919
by yourself. I got a bus pass and

503
00:18:29,919 --> 00:18:32,799
that was it. Nowadays, you would never put

504
00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:35,200
your 12 year old boy or girl on

505
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:36,720
a on a on a New York City

506
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,220
public

507
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,019
train, bus, whatever.

508
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,964
I don't think, anyway. But, that was it.

509
00:18:44,125 --> 00:18:45,884
And I went to school and,

510
00:18:47,484 --> 00:18:50,044
I remember coming home one day very upset.

511
00:18:50,044 --> 00:18:52,444
And the reason I don't remember, actually, my

512
00:18:52,444 --> 00:18:54,684
mom had to remind me of this. We

513
00:18:54,684 --> 00:18:55,825
had a school dance.

514
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,580
And, you know, when you come from

515
00:18:59,599 --> 00:19:00,980
an all black environment,

516
00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:04,099
that's it's kind of hermetically sealed, you know?

517
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,960
The teachers are white or black, whatever, but,

518
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,220
you know, you're very comfortable in your

519
00:19:10,454 --> 00:19:12,615
neighborhood. And I was. My, you know, my

520
00:19:12,615 --> 00:19:14,295
my my all my friends were the same.

521
00:19:14,295 --> 00:19:16,295
You know, their parents were some parents were

522
00:19:16,295 --> 00:19:19,494
cops. Some parents were sanitation workers. Other parents

523
00:19:19,494 --> 00:19:21,755
were bus drivers. So it's very working class,

524
00:19:21,974 --> 00:19:23,755
middle working middle class

525
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:24,980
kind of neighborhood.

526
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,000
And so I go blithely along to this

527
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:28,819
new experience,

528
00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:31,940
you know, not particularly thinking that I'm integrating

529
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,019
or even caring that that's what I'm doing.

530
00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:35,920
So I asked this girl to dance, and

531
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,380
she said, I don't dance with animals.

532
00:19:38,044 --> 00:19:39,184
And I was, like,

533
00:19:39,484 --> 00:19:41,565
really, really blown away by that. It was

534
00:19:41,565 --> 00:19:42,544
very, very painful.

535
00:19:42,845 --> 00:19:44,765
And the reason I'm telling you this only

536
00:19:44,765 --> 00:19:46,924
because I completely wiped it out of my

537
00:19:46,924 --> 00:19:49,565
memory, and my mom reminded me one day,

538
00:19:49,565 --> 00:19:51,325
and I said, wow. I I didn't I

539
00:19:51,325 --> 00:19:52,464
didn't remember that.

540
00:19:53,059 --> 00:19:53,559
Anyway,

541
00:19:53,940 --> 00:19:56,359
persevered at the school. All of my friends

542
00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:58,500
were white because I was one of very

543
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:01,859
few African Americans there. I was in the

544
00:20:01,859 --> 00:20:02,759
music program,

545
00:20:03,299 --> 00:20:04,900
and we tried to get a jazz band

546
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:06,359
together and do some things.

547
00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:07,880
I ended up

548
00:20:08,585 --> 00:20:09,085
swimming,

549
00:20:09,945 --> 00:20:12,904
you know, turning adversity into swimming. And,

550
00:20:13,384 --> 00:20:15,705
the kids there were cool eventually with me,

551
00:20:15,705 --> 00:20:17,705
and I was cool with them. And, you

552
00:20:17,705 --> 00:20:20,045
know, it was my first touch of Italian,

553
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:22,789
Worked a lot of Italian Americans at this

554
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:23,289
school.

555
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:26,070
And maybe that's why I love Italy so

556
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:27,610
much. No. I I have no idea.

557
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:29,910
So I'm not sure how old you are.

558
00:20:29,910 --> 00:20:31,590
So I'm not does that mean that you

559
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:33,750
were part of that first wave of of

560
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:34,250
integration?

561
00:20:35,305 --> 00:20:36,984
Yeah. But see, I I don't know because

562
00:20:36,984 --> 00:20:39,144
I don't know how New York fit in.

563
00:20:39,144 --> 00:20:41,144
Right. Because everybody did it at a different

564
00:20:41,144 --> 00:20:44,025
time. Right. I I'm not I mean, you

565
00:20:44,025 --> 00:20:46,345
know, New York chose to do this. But,

566
00:20:46,345 --> 00:20:48,424
yes, I I'm I'm up there. I'm I'm

567
00:20:48,424 --> 00:20:50,670
I'm a I'm a solid boomer. Believe me.

568
00:20:50,830 --> 00:20:53,070
That's a lot of trauma to to send

569
00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:54,930
kids into this sort of new

570
00:20:55,390 --> 00:20:57,730
without any kind of help or support.

571
00:20:58,590 --> 00:20:59,090
None.

572
00:20:59,549 --> 00:21:00,049
Yeah.

573
00:21:00,350 --> 00:21:03,890
None. None. This was after the breakfast program,

574
00:21:04,974 --> 00:21:05,634
I think.

575
00:21:06,414 --> 00:21:08,414
My timeline my timeline may be a bit

576
00:21:08,575 --> 00:21:10,414
but I'm pretty sure it was. Did the

577
00:21:10,414 --> 00:21:12,034
Black Panther environment

578
00:21:12,414 --> 00:21:14,194
empower you to

579
00:21:15,054 --> 00:21:17,534
deal with some of those challenges? Or I

580
00:21:17,534 --> 00:21:19,980
mean, at 12, no one's really thinking about

581
00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:21,740
all this kind of you know, the social

582
00:21:21,740 --> 00:21:22,960
and political ramifications

583
00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:26,640
of how America is trying to shift

584
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:27,440
toward

585
00:21:27,980 --> 00:21:28,480
better,

586
00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:30,859
for lack of a better word, a better

587
00:21:30,859 --> 00:21:31,359
future.

588
00:21:32,125 --> 00:21:32,625
We're

589
00:21:33,085 --> 00:21:34,224
still working on?

590
00:21:34,525 --> 00:21:36,845
Work in progress. Work in progress. I would

591
00:21:36,845 --> 00:21:39,025
have to say no because I don't remember

592
00:21:39,404 --> 00:21:41,644
any kind of political discourse. They were just

593
00:21:41,644 --> 00:21:43,244
feeding kids and making sure they had something

594
00:21:43,244 --> 00:21:44,224
to do after school.

595
00:21:44,765 --> 00:21:47,799
Exactly. Exactly. Because the school system was on

596
00:21:47,799 --> 00:21:48,380
strike. You know,

597
00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:49,339
in

598
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:51,799
retrospect, I I see what was done to

599
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:53,880
to dismember the Black Panthers. And it's a

600
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:54,779
shame because,

601
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,599
yes, they had this this violent rhetoric and

602
00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:00,619
this tough guy stance, but

603
00:22:01,285 --> 00:22:04,085
there were some really wonderful things that they

604
00:22:04,085 --> 00:22:06,585
did in in black communities across the country.

605
00:22:07,285 --> 00:22:09,144
And women you know, black women,

606
00:22:09,605 --> 00:22:12,244
were very, very involved and and did not

607
00:22:12,244 --> 00:22:14,460
get the attention, I think. The image of

608
00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:16,220
the Black Panthers is, you know, Huey Newton

609
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:17,759
with the gun and the thing and,

610
00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:19,980
you know, The way he talks about Angela

611
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:22,799
Davis as much or any yeah. Mhmm. And

612
00:22:22,859 --> 00:22:24,720
the what black women did for

613
00:22:25,019 --> 00:22:27,339
the vote. Yeah. Well, that's a that that's

614
00:22:27,339 --> 00:22:28,845
another we could do another whole show on

615
00:22:28,845 --> 00:22:29,804
that. Yeah, for sure. Anthony Vaughn (3six forty

616
00:22:29,804 --> 00:22:32,044
seven): Black women were very involved in the

617
00:22:32,044 --> 00:22:34,204
suffragette movement. Yeah. Anthony Vaughn (3six forty seven):

618
00:22:34,204 --> 00:22:36,365
And had nothing to show for it, at

619
00:22:36,365 --> 00:22:37,265
the end of it.

620
00:22:38,125 --> 00:22:39,025
And of course,

621
00:22:39,404 --> 00:22:41,904
memory glosses over a lot of things,

622
00:22:42,340 --> 00:22:44,279
but I don't really remember

623
00:22:45,380 --> 00:22:46,360
being particularly

624
00:22:48,259 --> 00:22:49,080
politically active

625
00:22:49,460 --> 00:22:52,340
at this point. I was just reacting socially

626
00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:54,100
to what was, you know, what I was

627
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:54,920
dealing with

628
00:22:55,375 --> 00:22:57,214
and trying to keep good grades because that

629
00:22:57,214 --> 00:22:58,974
was, you know, that's part of the family

630
00:22:58,974 --> 00:23:00,674
thing. You gotta get good grades.

631
00:23:00,974 --> 00:23:02,034
Now my brothers

632
00:23:02,654 --> 00:23:04,095
and, you know, I always tease them. I

633
00:23:04,095 --> 00:23:06,255
said, because they all had it easy. So

634
00:23:06,255 --> 00:23:08,595
after I was the guinea pig with this

635
00:23:09,059 --> 00:23:09,559
stupid

636
00:23:09,940 --> 00:23:12,339
integration thing, they opened up new schools in

637
00:23:12,339 --> 00:23:15,700
our neighborhood, you know, 15 mile radius, middle

638
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:17,940
schools and so forth. So my brothers went

639
00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:19,619
to that middle school, and then he went

640
00:23:19,619 --> 00:23:21,220
to prep school, and then he went to

641
00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:22,819
Yale, and, you know, they had all the

642
00:23:22,819 --> 00:23:25,734
good stuff. You know? I'm slugging along at

643
00:23:25,734 --> 00:23:26,555
public school,

644
00:23:27,015 --> 00:23:29,355
public middle school, public high school,

645
00:23:30,535 --> 00:23:31,894
but I'm quite proud of them. You know?

646
00:23:31,894 --> 00:23:33,255
One went to Yale. The other one went

647
00:23:33,255 --> 00:23:35,115
to Dartmouth. So I'm proud of them.

648
00:23:35,494 --> 00:23:37,990
And when you headed off to college, did

649
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:40,009
you already have in your mind

650
00:23:40,869 --> 00:23:43,130
to be in the filmmaking

651
00:23:43,589 --> 00:23:45,769
world? Was that something that came later?

652
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:49,190
No. What happened was in middle school, I

653
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:50,089
was in music.

654
00:23:50,434 --> 00:23:53,174
I loved music. In high school, I continued

655
00:23:53,234 --> 00:23:54,835
that. And then I found out there was

656
00:23:54,835 --> 00:23:55,734
this thing called,

657
00:23:56,194 --> 00:23:57,255
acting theater.

658
00:23:57,714 --> 00:23:59,174
So I started acting

659
00:23:59,714 --> 00:24:00,194
and,

660
00:24:00,515 --> 00:24:01,575
that was my thing,

661
00:24:01,954 --> 00:24:02,454
music

662
00:24:03,234 --> 00:24:03,894
and art.

663
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:05,690
When I got to NYU,

664
00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:08,630
I honestly did not know what I wanted

665
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:10,230
to do. I didn't even know that there

666
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:12,390
was a film program. I didn't know anything

667
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:14,710
about that. Loved movies like everybody else, you

668
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:17,269
know? So I'm thinking around and I I'm

669
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:18,765
thinking, well, okay, since Since I don't know

670
00:24:18,765 --> 00:24:20,924
what my major's gonna be, let me get

671
00:24:20,924 --> 00:24:23,805
rid of all the basic courses, get past

672
00:24:23,805 --> 00:24:25,805
all of this, and then I'll declare a

673
00:24:25,805 --> 00:24:27,484
major when I figure out what I wanna

674
00:24:27,484 --> 00:24:27,984
do.

675
00:24:28,924 --> 00:24:30,525
Then I discovered there was this thing called

676
00:24:30,525 --> 00:24:31,025
film,

677
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:32,680
a film program.

678
00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:35,000
I had 2 very special teachers,

679
00:24:35,299 --> 00:24:36,119
Martin Scorsese

680
00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:37,960
for directing

681
00:24:38,820 --> 00:24:40,039
problems class and,

682
00:24:41,779 --> 00:24:44,839
Martin Martin who wrote that, Taxi Driver.

683
00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:47,000
He was writing writing teacher.

684
00:24:47,994 --> 00:24:50,075
Oliver Stone was in my class, one of

685
00:24:50,075 --> 00:24:50,734
my classes,

686
00:24:51,515 --> 00:24:53,275
and I was able to catch up with

687
00:24:53,275 --> 00:24:55,835
him a couple years ago and, you know,

688
00:24:55,835 --> 00:24:57,835
reminded him of it. And and we talked

689
00:24:57,835 --> 00:25:00,075
about that period of his life. He didn't

690
00:25:00,075 --> 00:25:02,255
remember me, but I remembered him,

691
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,000
because we were all these wet behind the

692
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,700
ears kids in this class,

693
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,940
and there was this intense brooding presence

694
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,259
in the class, and that was Olive Stone,

695
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,180
who, had already

696
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,820
been, at that point, had already

697
00:25:18,125 --> 00:25:19,025
first volunteered,

698
00:25:19,484 --> 00:25:21,744
with a, like an NGO type,

699
00:25:23,244 --> 00:25:23,744
organization

700
00:25:24,445 --> 00:25:25,105
in Nam

701
00:25:26,365 --> 00:25:28,305
and had been going back as a soldier

702
00:25:28,684 --> 00:25:30,525
in Nam and now was now was in

703
00:25:30,525 --> 00:25:33,250
school. So when he came back, you know,

704
00:25:33,250 --> 00:25:33,910
he was

705
00:25:35,090 --> 00:25:36,150
a pretty serious

706
00:25:36,609 --> 00:25:38,609
pretty serious person. I I don't know if

707
00:25:38,609 --> 00:25:40,070
if he had already written.

708
00:25:41,009 --> 00:25:42,950
It was Midnight Express, I think it was.

709
00:25:43,330 --> 00:25:44,390
I think he

710
00:25:45,154 --> 00:25:45,654
had.

711
00:25:46,595 --> 00:25:48,674
College was, you know, that's what I was

712
00:25:48,674 --> 00:25:51,075
into, and I I had no idea, you

713
00:25:51,075 --> 00:25:53,654
know, how amazing Scorsese was.

714
00:25:54,355 --> 00:25:56,835
He had just done he had done Boxcar

715
00:25:56,835 --> 00:25:57,335
Bertha.

716
00:25:58,115 --> 00:26:00,134
He was in that the corpsman group.

717
00:26:00,809 --> 00:26:01,309
And,

718
00:26:01,929 --> 00:26:03,769
you know, I was just lucky to have

719
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:05,710
him for that that one semester.

720
00:26:06,649 --> 00:26:08,990
Then he's gone, you know, doing his thing.

721
00:26:09,450 --> 00:26:11,769
How are you looking at cinema up until

722
00:26:11,769 --> 00:26:14,169
this point? Because I think this will segue

723
00:26:14,169 --> 00:26:17,025
nicely into what you teach now. But how

724
00:26:17,025 --> 00:26:17,525
are

725
00:26:18,545 --> 00:26:21,605
you taking in the cinema that you're experiencing?

726
00:26:22,625 --> 00:26:23,125
Well,

727
00:26:23,825 --> 00:26:25,825
you know, it's funny because I kinda begin

728
00:26:25,825 --> 00:26:28,545
my presentation to my students this way. I

729
00:26:28,545 --> 00:26:29,845
was exposed to

730
00:26:30,259 --> 00:26:32,119
to a lot. I mean, I I love

731
00:26:32,180 --> 00:26:33,700
I love the program. I mean, when I

732
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:35,539
came through the program, it was kind of

733
00:26:35,539 --> 00:26:36,039
new.

734
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:38,820
So a lot of things, you know, developed

735
00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:41,140
as a program matured. You know? So I

736
00:26:41,299 --> 00:26:43,140
I'm I'm aware of all the all this

737
00:26:43,140 --> 00:26:43,640
amazing

738
00:26:44,085 --> 00:26:46,424
filmmaking and production being being done.

739
00:26:47,044 --> 00:26:48,265
Very little of it

740
00:26:48,644 --> 00:26:51,444
had African Americans in it. In fact, I

741
00:26:51,444 --> 00:26:52,904
don't honestly remember

742
00:26:54,164 --> 00:26:56,265
in any of my film history classes

743
00:26:57,079 --> 00:27:00,200
being shown any films by African Americans or

744
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,980
that that involved African Americans.

745
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:04,859
I believe I found these on my own,

746
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,920
things like nothing but a man, because that

747
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,539
came out in 64,

748
00:27:09,714 --> 00:27:12,054
Ivan Dixon. It was just my own curiosity

749
00:27:12,674 --> 00:27:15,234
to to find this. Television, of course, was

750
00:27:15,234 --> 00:27:17,474
was evolving, and and I was aware of

751
00:27:17,474 --> 00:27:19,575
Bill Cosby's work and so forth,

752
00:27:20,115 --> 00:27:22,194
not I Spy, because, you know, like every

753
00:27:22,194 --> 00:27:24,950
other young kid, I was really crazy for,

754
00:27:25,890 --> 00:27:27,750
spy stuff. I didn't

755
00:27:28,690 --> 00:27:29,509
wasn't really

756
00:27:30,049 --> 00:27:30,549
appreciative,

757
00:27:31,330 --> 00:27:32,230
shall we say,

758
00:27:32,690 --> 00:27:33,750
of the groundbreaking

759
00:27:34,049 --> 00:27:36,309
work that people like Sidney Poitier,

760
00:27:37,075 --> 00:27:39,575
Paul Robeson. I was not even aware

761
00:27:40,515 --> 00:27:42,515
that there was such a thing as as,

762
00:27:42,755 --> 00:27:43,654
black filmmakers

763
00:27:44,115 --> 00:27:46,134
of the teens and and twenties.

764
00:27:46,755 --> 00:27:47,654
Oscar Micheaux.

765
00:27:48,835 --> 00:27:50,215
No. Never heard of

766
00:27:50,619 --> 00:27:52,380
them. I bet they, I bet they're, they're

767
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:54,460
taught now at NYU and, and all other

768
00:27:54,460 --> 00:27:56,940
film schools. And I know my students have

769
00:27:56,940 --> 00:27:58,619
never heard of it because they all come

770
00:27:58,619 --> 00:28:00,960
up to me. I mean, I'm, I'm really

771
00:28:01,819 --> 00:28:02,319
honored

772
00:28:03,974 --> 00:28:05,654
when I know that they're actually listening and

773
00:28:05,654 --> 00:28:07,414
they say thank you because we've learned something

774
00:28:07,414 --> 00:28:08,875
we never knew about before.

775
00:28:09,494 --> 00:28:10,714
And, I

776
00:28:11,095 --> 00:28:13,275
wanted to read you this this quote because

777
00:28:14,134 --> 00:28:16,059
it's something this, by the way, was an

778
00:28:16,059 --> 00:28:18,320
amazing called Black Cinema Regeneration,

779
00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:19,680
Regeneration

780
00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:21,920
at the it was at the Academy Museum.

781
00:28:22,460 --> 00:28:24,559
But I was flipping through this and

782
00:28:25,820 --> 00:28:27,680
apropos of what we're talking about,

783
00:28:28,204 --> 00:28:30,384
James Baldwin said in 1968,

784
00:28:30,765 --> 00:28:32,765
it is of the utmost importance that a

785
00:28:32,765 --> 00:28:33,585
black child

786
00:28:33,964 --> 00:28:36,065
see on the screen on that screen,

787
00:28:36,445 --> 00:28:38,305
someone who looks like him.

788
00:28:38,845 --> 00:28:41,005
Our children have been suffering from the lack

789
00:28:41,005 --> 00:28:41,825
of identifiable

790
00:28:42,204 --> 00:28:42,704
images

791
00:28:43,059 --> 00:28:44,820
for as long as our children have been

792
00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:47,140
born. You know, I certainly fell into that

793
00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:50,660
category. You know, certainly in other arts like

794
00:28:50,660 --> 00:28:51,880
music, I was aware,

795
00:28:52,820 --> 00:28:55,220
partly because of my father, of, of the

796
00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:58,115
literature of African American writers. I was aware

797
00:28:58,174 --> 00:28:59,875
of the music, obviously,

798
00:29:00,174 --> 00:29:01,315
the jazz greats.

799
00:29:02,095 --> 00:29:05,295
But my dad was so eclectic that he

800
00:29:05,295 --> 00:29:07,875
introduced me to people who were not,

801
00:29:08,255 --> 00:29:09,934
you know, like, for example, you know, everyone

802
00:29:09,934 --> 00:29:12,869
has heard of, Louis Armstrong or, John Cole

803
00:29:12,869 --> 00:29:16,150
Coltrane. Right? But maybe not Youssef Lateef, maybe

804
00:29:16,150 --> 00:29:18,630
not Pharoah Sanders. These were guys who are

805
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:20,410
on, you know, on a cutting edge,

806
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:22,650
that contributed greatly

807
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:25,029
to to our music, to the music of

808
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:27,184
America. To kind of come back to where

809
00:29:27,184 --> 00:29:28,005
I am now,

810
00:29:28,305 --> 00:29:29,845
to find out and discover

811
00:29:30,465 --> 00:29:31,045
the richness

812
00:29:31,825 --> 00:29:34,164
of work of African American artists

813
00:29:34,625 --> 00:29:36,484
from the very beginning of cinema,

814
00:29:38,144 --> 00:29:39,045
is very gratifying.

815
00:29:39,744 --> 00:29:41,045
And I really hope

816
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,559
more students are aware of this. That's not

817
00:29:43,559 --> 00:29:46,380
taking anything away from the contributions of female,

818
00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:48,619
directors because there were quite a few

819
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,640
in the early years, female directors who were

820
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,019
fighting against the system

821
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,500
to try to break through. Asian Americans

822
00:29:56,144 --> 00:29:58,785
have the same complaints that that we have

823
00:29:58,785 --> 00:30:01,365
had. You know, having whites in yellow face.

824
00:30:01,424 --> 00:30:03,285
I've watched on channel 9

825
00:30:03,664 --> 00:30:05,025
in New York. They used to have a

826
00:30:05,025 --> 00:30:07,585
thing called the $1,000,000 movie. They used the

827
00:30:07,585 --> 00:30:09,820
theme from Gone With the Wind, was the

828
00:30:09,820 --> 00:30:12,080
$1,000,000 movie. And so I would see,

829
00:30:12,619 --> 00:30:14,860
things like the Marx Brothers, and I would

830
00:30:14,860 --> 00:30:15,360
see,

831
00:30:16,299 --> 00:30:19,039
Charlie Chan, you know, which was a horrible

832
00:30:19,420 --> 00:30:22,634
representation of Asian Americans, but that's what was

833
00:30:22,634 --> 00:30:25,375
there. Cartoons are even worse. Yeah. Cartoons are

834
00:30:25,375 --> 00:30:27,055
way over the top. I you know, when

835
00:30:27,055 --> 00:30:28,515
I was sitting in your class

836
00:30:28,974 --> 00:30:29,474
and

837
00:30:29,855 --> 00:30:32,275
I I knew going in, of course, that

838
00:30:32,414 --> 00:30:34,095
there was going to be things that would

839
00:30:34,095 --> 00:30:37,200
likely make especially 20 year olds, the students,

840
00:30:38,619 --> 00:30:39,519
really uncomfortable,

841
00:30:40,299 --> 00:30:42,700
you know, to be Mhmm. Faced with the

842
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:45,259
truth of things when so many people are

843
00:30:45,259 --> 00:30:46,640
trying to ignore

844
00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:48,000
historical

845
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:49,200
accuracy.

846
00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:50,734
Right. I'm curious.

847
00:30:51,035 --> 00:30:51,694
How do you

848
00:30:51,994 --> 00:30:52,494
experience

849
00:30:52,795 --> 00:30:54,974
your kids, your students experiencing

850
00:30:55,355 --> 00:30:56,174
those things?

851
00:30:56,555 --> 00:30:58,555
I approach it this way. I say pretty

852
00:30:58,555 --> 00:30:59,615
much at the start

853
00:30:59,994 --> 00:31:01,855
that I'm gonna discuss some things

854
00:31:02,474 --> 00:31:04,815
that are, going to be uncomfortable.

855
00:31:06,299 --> 00:31:08,319
And I say none of this is designed

856
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:11,579
or intended to make anybody feel bad about

857
00:31:11,579 --> 00:31:12,079
themselves.

858
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:14,720
I say, y'all didn't do anything.

859
00:31:15,659 --> 00:31:17,419
And then I take I I kind of

860
00:31:17,419 --> 00:31:17,579
mash

861
00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:20,159
massacre a quote from,

862
00:31:21,345 --> 00:31:23,684
Ava DuVernay's wonderful movie origin,

863
00:31:24,545 --> 00:31:25,605
where I say,

864
00:31:26,065 --> 00:31:28,065
something to the effect the character in the

865
00:31:28,065 --> 00:31:30,144
movie says something to the effect that, you

866
00:31:30,144 --> 00:31:30,644
know,

867
00:31:31,424 --> 00:31:33,045
we're living in this house

868
00:31:33,829 --> 00:31:35,289
that was built by others,

869
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:39,349
and it's got broken windows and rugs messed

870
00:31:39,349 --> 00:31:41,210
up and, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

871
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:43,910
You didn't build this house. We didn't build

872
00:31:43,910 --> 00:31:44,650
this house,

873
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:46,490
but it's on us

874
00:31:47,109 --> 00:31:48,410
to fix this house.

875
00:31:49,214 --> 00:31:51,134
And that's what I say. I'm looking for

876
00:31:51,134 --> 00:31:54,595
allies in this and information makes us allies.

877
00:31:54,734 --> 00:31:56,494
That's what I want. I don't wanna make

878
00:31:56,494 --> 00:31:57,714
anybody feel bad.

879
00:31:58,095 --> 00:31:59,535
You know, what, what, what use is it

880
00:31:59,535 --> 00:32:01,134
to say, well, you know, white folks did

881
00:32:01,134 --> 00:32:03,829
blackface and they were, you know, and they

882
00:32:03,829 --> 00:32:06,149
they produced these horrible images of blacks and

883
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:08,230
Asians and so forth. So, it's your fault.

884
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:09,450
Well, that's that's absurd.

885
00:32:10,390 --> 00:32:12,069
No, but I want you to join me

886
00:32:12,069 --> 00:32:12,809
in recognizing

887
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:15,429
that it was absurd. And what what will

888
00:32:15,429 --> 00:32:17,805
you do now? What can you, as a

889
00:32:17,965 --> 00:32:19,664
creative person, do now

890
00:32:20,525 --> 00:32:23,244
to add to the conversation that improves this

891
00:32:23,244 --> 00:32:25,805
house that we are now living in? Which

892
00:32:25,805 --> 00:32:28,045
is interesting too to think that the school

893
00:32:28,045 --> 00:32:30,684
would say, as do many schools, make sure

894
00:32:30,684 --> 00:32:32,065
that there's nothing political

895
00:32:32,445 --> 00:32:35,940
discussed. And it's it's hard to not because

896
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:36,660
politics

897
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:37,859
and

898
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,099
social justice and

899
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:41,059
sociology

900
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:43,700
and all of they're all in bed together.

901
00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:46,319
You can't have one without the other. They

902
00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:46,819
all

903
00:32:47,515 --> 00:32:51,134
meet each other. Absolutely. Plus, we're creative people.

904
00:32:51,674 --> 00:32:53,755
We are aware of what's going on in

905
00:32:53,755 --> 00:32:56,315
our lives. We wanna make films about the

906
00:32:56,315 --> 00:32:57,535
things that we're experiencing.

907
00:32:58,315 --> 00:33:00,815
Are we experiencing this political stuff?

908
00:33:01,390 --> 00:33:05,250
The sociological changes, the effects of, artificial intelligence,

909
00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:06,849
and its implications,

910
00:33:07,230 --> 00:33:09,869
and social media, and what it's doing to

911
00:33:09,869 --> 00:33:12,829
children, and to adults, and relationships, blah, blah,

912
00:33:12,829 --> 00:33:14,609
blah. All rich fertile ground

913
00:33:15,464 --> 00:33:17,545
for thinking people. But see, I think that's

914
00:33:17,545 --> 00:33:18,765
exactly the danger.

915
00:33:19,545 --> 00:33:21,244
Because if, for example,

916
00:33:22,265 --> 00:33:25,785
this new administration is successful in destroying the

917
00:33:25,785 --> 00:33:26,845
department of education,

918
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,919
If they are successful in making it so

919
00:33:30,919 --> 00:33:34,200
that only the states have control of the

920
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,019
the educational,

921
00:33:36,919 --> 00:33:39,339
norms or guidelines for everybody,

922
00:33:39,924 --> 00:33:42,724
we're gonna have some really stupid people. Well,

923
00:33:42,724 --> 00:33:45,045
it was certainly ignorant. It will cause an

924
00:33:45,045 --> 00:33:48,404
incredible division. Sorry. I meant ignorant. Yeah. It'll

925
00:33:48,404 --> 00:33:52,025
it'll cause an incredible division of of knowledge.

926
00:33:52,164 --> 00:33:52,664
And,

927
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:55,359
well, knowledge is power. We know that that

928
00:33:55,359 --> 00:33:56,500
is a fact.

929
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,019
It will only

930
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,140
divide us more because

931
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,500
the quote unquote elites or the educated, which

932
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:06,640
I I think, unfortunately, those two words have

933
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,244
now become synonymous. They're not. They're not at

934
00:34:09,244 --> 00:34:12,305
all. No. But they've they've, you know, intellect

935
00:34:12,364 --> 00:34:13,105
or education

936
00:34:13,565 --> 00:34:15,985
or a lack of ignorance has been vilified.

937
00:34:16,684 --> 00:34:17,184
Yes.

938
00:34:17,644 --> 00:34:19,565
Yes. My big issue, of course, is a

939
00:34:19,565 --> 00:34:22,660
willful ignorance. That's what that's what it breaks

940
00:34:22,660 --> 00:34:24,660
my heart. That's what makes me very sad.

941
00:34:24,660 --> 00:34:26,920
That willfully, I don't wanna know things

942
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:29,640
Yes. Stance. Because it's so painful.

943
00:34:30,019 --> 00:34:32,500
It is. That leads us back to not

944
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:34,599
wanting to have a good an honest discussion

945
00:34:34,660 --> 00:34:35,239
of history

946
00:34:36,375 --> 00:34:37,515
as opposed to

947
00:34:38,695 --> 00:34:40,554
really looking at what was done.

948
00:34:40,934 --> 00:34:43,175
It's also a big f u to most

949
00:34:43,175 --> 00:34:44,855
of the people on the planet that don't

950
00:34:44,855 --> 00:34:46,795
look like you or act like you or

951
00:34:46,855 --> 00:34:49,275
worship like you or talk like you, whatever

952
00:34:49,335 --> 00:34:51,869
they like you part of it is. Yes.

953
00:34:51,869 --> 00:34:52,369
Absolutely.

954
00:34:53,230 --> 00:34:55,409
Also, how do we begin to break down

955
00:34:55,710 --> 00:34:58,269
these divisions if we don't learn about each

956
00:34:58,269 --> 00:35:00,449
other? Yeah. It seems like a really lonely,

957
00:35:00,750 --> 00:35:01,250
angry

958
00:35:02,429 --> 00:35:02,929
existence.

959
00:35:03,309 --> 00:35:06,049
Yeah. This is completely off topic, but

960
00:35:06,635 --> 00:35:09,214
I started listening to Shaboozy,

961
00:35:09,835 --> 00:35:12,335
and that led me to Jelly Roll.

962
00:35:13,034 --> 00:35:15,114
These are people I never would have heard

963
00:35:15,114 --> 00:35:16,974
because I don't do country music. Right?

964
00:35:17,994 --> 00:35:20,394
And Jelly Roll has a song called I'm

965
00:35:20,394 --> 00:35:21,135
Not Okay

966
00:35:21,670 --> 00:35:22,170
that

967
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:24,170
tears me up

968
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:27,769
because it is so full of pain.

969
00:35:28,309 --> 00:35:29,289
And I'm thinking,

970
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:31,449
these are the people that the democrats

971
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:32,250
missed.

972
00:35:32,869 --> 00:35:33,929
They don't understand

973
00:35:35,085 --> 00:35:36,465
that there's a lot of people,

974
00:35:37,724 --> 00:35:39,425
you know, who are not

975
00:35:39,965 --> 00:35:40,465
okay.

976
00:35:41,244 --> 00:35:43,965
They're not doing okay. They're working hard. They're

977
00:35:43,965 --> 00:35:45,025
not doing okay.

978
00:35:45,724 --> 00:35:48,605
And part of the problem is, the people

979
00:35:48,605 --> 00:35:49,905
who are telling them,

980
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:53,000
who are pretending to be listening to them,

981
00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:56,099
are actually exploiting them. When they find out

982
00:35:56,180 --> 00:35:58,180
if they ever find out what Trump really

983
00:35:58,180 --> 00:35:59,800
thinks of them and what his administration

984
00:36:00,180 --> 00:36:02,420
intends to take away from them I mean,

985
00:36:02,420 --> 00:36:03,824
not even just Trump. I mean, I would

986
00:36:03,824 --> 00:36:06,465
just they'd say politics in general. Like, Trump

987
00:36:06,465 --> 00:36:08,545
is representative of a lot of things that

988
00:36:08,545 --> 00:36:10,224
you and I. Maybe not everyone who listens

989
00:36:10,224 --> 00:36:11,905
to this show believes that, but you and

990
00:36:11,905 --> 00:36:14,385
I certainly believe he's representative of a lot

991
00:36:14,385 --> 00:36:15,364
of things that we

992
00:36:16,569 --> 00:36:17,789
do not hold dear.

993
00:36:18,329 --> 00:36:18,829
However,

994
00:36:19,849 --> 00:36:22,650
politics across the board that's that's the great,

995
00:36:24,569 --> 00:36:26,969
23 Ski Doo that has been done to

996
00:36:26,969 --> 00:36:29,289
people is that they have been told to

997
00:36:29,289 --> 00:36:31,885
worship at the feet of whatever political party

998
00:36:31,885 --> 00:36:32,385
they

999
00:36:34,045 --> 00:36:34,545
reflect

1000
00:36:35,405 --> 00:36:37,164
in their minds that they think they're they're

1001
00:36:37,164 --> 00:36:39,105
a part of. But that party

1002
00:36:40,444 --> 00:36:43,085
really only cares up to a point. Well,

1003
00:36:43,085 --> 00:36:44,464
of course. You know?

1004
00:36:44,809 --> 00:36:46,650
Yes. Yes. Well, I you know, the point

1005
00:36:46,650 --> 00:36:48,010
is we're stuck with this. You know? We

1006
00:36:48,010 --> 00:36:50,010
have 2 parties. That's it. You know? It's

1007
00:36:50,010 --> 00:36:52,190
not like, Italy with its chaotic,

1008
00:36:52,809 --> 00:36:54,329
you know, or or Europe with its, you

1009
00:36:54,329 --> 00:36:55,469
know Six parties.

1010
00:36:55,769 --> 00:36:57,769
6 parties and, you know, and they're all

1011
00:36:57,769 --> 00:37:00,375
fighting. And maybe that's a better way. Now

1012
00:37:00,375 --> 00:37:02,614
we're getting really existential with it, I suppose.

1013
00:37:02,614 --> 00:37:03,594
It's just power

1014
00:37:04,215 --> 00:37:06,295
versus the people that have no power. And

1015
00:37:06,295 --> 00:37:07,114
that's really

1016
00:37:07,414 --> 00:37:10,535
the bottom line. Mhmm. And anytime the people

1017
00:37:10,535 --> 00:37:12,055
that don't have power start to use their

1018
00:37:12,055 --> 00:37:13,494
voice and look around and say, hey, you

1019
00:37:13,494 --> 00:37:15,539
know what? If I'm gonna speak up, I'm

1020
00:37:15,539 --> 00:37:17,300
also gonna speak up for these other people

1021
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:18,980
that don't have a voice. And then the

1022
00:37:18,980 --> 00:37:20,440
people in power say,

1023
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:22,760
oh, oh, no. No. No. No. No. No.

1024
00:37:22,820 --> 00:37:24,579
No. No. No. We like our power. We

1025
00:37:24,579 --> 00:37:26,655
don't want to have any power. No. I

1026
00:37:26,655 --> 00:37:28,574
I mean, I think that's the conundrum. You

1027
00:37:28,574 --> 00:37:30,414
know? How do you give voice to the

1028
00:37:30,414 --> 00:37:33,535
voiceless? And and, you know, isn't that the

1029
00:37:33,535 --> 00:37:34,515
problem with populism?

1030
00:37:34,894 --> 00:37:35,394
Right?

1031
00:37:35,775 --> 00:37:38,335
You know? Because if if that if the

1032
00:37:38,335 --> 00:37:39,795
populous is not informed,

1033
00:37:40,610 --> 00:37:42,710
then they're gonna make some really bad choices.

1034
00:37:42,769 --> 00:37:44,789
If we go back to talking about film,

1035
00:37:45,170 --> 00:37:47,829
and there's the idea of, oh, only certain

1036
00:37:47,969 --> 00:37:51,090
looks or certain faces or certain Mhmm. You

1037
00:37:51,090 --> 00:37:53,250
know, men doing this and not you know,

1038
00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:54,474
a chick film or,

1039
00:37:54,775 --> 00:37:56,454
oh, if there's black people in this or

1040
00:37:56,454 --> 00:37:57,974
Asian people in that, you know, whatever it

1041
00:37:57,974 --> 00:38:01,094
is. There is a hierarchy of the money

1042
00:38:01,094 --> 00:38:04,474
crunchers saying this has value and this doesn't,

1043
00:38:04,775 --> 00:38:06,875
which is why it's so exciting when

1044
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:08,739
shows like Abbott Elementary

1045
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,679
or movies like origin or, you know, whatever

1046
00:38:11,679 --> 00:38:12,739
it is. Actually,

1047
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,400
these things make 1,000,000 of dollars, by the

1048
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,400
way. They do. You know, maybe there are

1049
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,400
some cracks, you know, because some of these

1050
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,900
projects are slipping through. I I don't know.

1051
00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:24,715
I mean, let's go back to the seventies,

1052
00:38:24,715 --> 00:38:26,074
all in the family. How the hell did

1053
00:38:26,074 --> 00:38:27,434
that ever get on the air? You think

1054
00:38:27,434 --> 00:38:29,195
that would get on the air now? We

1055
00:38:29,195 --> 00:38:32,014
treasure that. You know? Talk about pushing boundaries

1056
00:38:32,235 --> 00:38:33,855
and making people face

1057
00:38:34,554 --> 00:38:37,320
the realities of who we all are. Right.

1058
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,180
But normally, I found a way

1059
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:40,219
to

1060
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:41,980
to talk about politics

1061
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,320
in a humanistic way that allowed us to

1062
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,000
laugh at it and and made us think

1063
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,420
about it. You know, Archie Bunker was representative

1064
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,300
of a certain way of thinking.

1065
00:38:52,815 --> 00:38:53,855
Mhmm. And,

1066
00:38:54,335 --> 00:38:54,835
Meathead

1067
00:38:55,135 --> 00:38:57,875
was another thing. And they would clash, and

1068
00:38:58,014 --> 00:38:59,614
and and that's how he would get the

1069
00:38:59,614 --> 00:39:01,214
ideas out. And Edith would be in the

1070
00:39:01,214 --> 00:39:02,815
middle, you know. And then all of a

1071
00:39:02,815 --> 00:39:04,494
sudden, you know, Archie would try to do

1072
00:39:04,494 --> 00:39:06,414
something to put Edith down, and she would

1073
00:39:06,414 --> 00:39:08,760
just smack him back, and he would be

1074
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:09,260
surprised.

1075
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,500
But I think you spoke to it earlier

1076
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,380
in that the thing that Norman Lear did

1077
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,840
is that he wasn't also afraid to show

1078
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:17,900
Archie's pain.

1079
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:18,860
Absolutely.

1080
00:39:20,505 --> 00:39:22,905
Absolutely. Archie was a a was a a

1081
00:39:22,905 --> 00:39:23,484
a three-dimensional,

1082
00:39:24,344 --> 00:39:26,444
character, but that's why it worked.

1083
00:39:26,744 --> 00:39:28,424
And maybe that's we need to get back

1084
00:39:28,424 --> 00:39:30,764
to that. Maybe when we when we start

1085
00:39:30,824 --> 00:39:33,260
talking about these people who are are being

1086
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:35,519
left behind, we we paint them as three-dimensional

1087
00:39:35,739 --> 00:39:38,219
people. The line in Jelly Roll's thing is

1088
00:39:38,219 --> 00:39:40,139
I'm I'm not okay, but I'm gonna be

1089
00:39:40,139 --> 00:39:40,639
alright.

1090
00:39:41,099 --> 00:39:42,940
That gives you a much fuller picture. It

1091
00:39:42,940 --> 00:39:44,639
really made me aware of

1092
00:39:45,315 --> 00:39:47,394
how much there's a group of people that

1093
00:39:47,394 --> 00:39:48,994
I'm not aware of, how much they are

1094
00:39:48,994 --> 00:39:51,014
hurting. It's a pretty small planet.

1095
00:39:51,635 --> 00:39:52,994
Isn't it? And it's the only one we

1096
00:39:52,994 --> 00:39:53,494
have,

1097
00:39:54,114 --> 00:39:55,714
you know? There's this rush to go to

1098
00:39:55,714 --> 00:39:57,315
Mars. I'm like, why? We're just gonna go

1099
00:39:57,315 --> 00:39:59,070
there and bring the same crap over there.

1100
00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:00,750
I mean, we do it here. We go

1101
00:40:00,750 --> 00:40:02,670
to Austin because Austin is a cool place,

1102
00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:04,829
and then we all bring our condominiums and

1103
00:40:04,829 --> 00:40:07,710
our, you know, California attitudes or whatever. And

1104
00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:09,230
now Austin is not as cool as it

1105
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:11,170
used to be. Right? I get the excitement

1106
00:40:11,230 --> 00:40:13,010
of space and the wanting to

1107
00:40:13,355 --> 00:40:16,734
adventure outward. I completely understand. But also, I

1108
00:40:16,954 --> 00:40:17,934
find it difficult

1109
00:40:18,315 --> 00:40:21,034
to think here's somebody who can afford to

1110
00:40:21,034 --> 00:40:21,534
really

1111
00:40:22,074 --> 00:40:22,574
fix

1112
00:40:23,114 --> 00:40:24,954
some problems at home, you know, here on

1113
00:40:24,954 --> 00:40:25,614
the planet

1114
00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:28,650
and chooses to look at the how do

1115
00:40:28,650 --> 00:40:30,730
we go to somewhere else? Mhmm. And maybe

1116
00:40:30,730 --> 00:40:32,489
start messing that one up. I I have

1117
00:40:32,489 --> 00:40:34,650
my personal things around that. I think that

1118
00:40:34,650 --> 00:40:36,250
it has to do more with mining rights

1119
00:40:36,250 --> 00:40:38,349
and has little to do with saving humanity.

1120
00:40:39,065 --> 00:40:40,985
Because the first people that get to mine

1121
00:40:40,985 --> 00:40:43,244
Mars are gonna make a freaking fortune.

1122
00:40:43,625 --> 00:40:44,125
Absolutely.

1123
00:40:44,425 --> 00:40:46,184
That's that's what it really is. In my

1124
00:40:46,184 --> 00:40:48,105
opinion, that's what it's about. I don't think

1125
00:40:48,105 --> 00:40:50,265
it's, just a matter of your opinion. I

1126
00:40:50,265 --> 00:40:52,105
think you're absolutely correct. I think it's a

1127
00:40:52,105 --> 00:40:52,605
reality.

1128
00:40:53,449 --> 00:40:55,690
I just read today that there is a

1129
00:40:55,690 --> 00:40:56,909
discussion about

1130
00:40:57,210 --> 00:40:58,889
how soon we're gonna be ready to do

1131
00:40:58,889 --> 00:41:00,109
mining on the moon.

1132
00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:01,710
Yeah.

1133
00:41:02,409 --> 00:41:04,429
Why would we wanna mess with the moon?

1134
00:41:04,489 --> 00:41:07,369
Because the moon affects the tides and a

1135
00:41:07,369 --> 00:41:08,750
lot of things on earth.

1136
00:41:09,344 --> 00:41:10,545
Do we really wanna go up there and

1137
00:41:10,545 --> 00:41:12,864
start chipping away and taking things away and

1138
00:41:12,864 --> 00:41:15,264
pounding and blowing shit up? I don't think

1139
00:41:15,264 --> 00:41:16,945
it's a good idea. I do not think

1140
00:41:16,945 --> 00:41:17,925
it's a good idea.

1141
00:41:18,945 --> 00:41:21,264
Yeah. I know. It is it's I'm not

1142
00:41:21,264 --> 00:41:23,025
even a scientist, and I don't think it's

1143
00:41:23,025 --> 00:41:24,485
a good idea. Yeah.

1144
00:41:25,050 --> 00:41:27,630
But again, sometimes I wonder how much

1145
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:30,650
people really consider humanity. I don't think a

1146
00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:32,190
lot. When it comes to money,

1147
00:41:32,570 --> 00:41:33,550
humanity is

1148
00:41:34,090 --> 00:41:35,849
not at the top of the list of

1149
00:41:35,849 --> 00:41:38,684
let's make sure. Right. Well, I mean, it

1150
00:41:38,984 --> 00:41:41,144
kinda syncs up with what we're discovering about

1151
00:41:41,144 --> 00:41:41,644
UnitedHealth,

1152
00:41:42,184 --> 00:41:45,545
Group, right, as a total. Mhmm. Because it

1153
00:41:45,545 --> 00:41:48,664
was clear that they had a policy of

1154
00:41:48,664 --> 00:41:49,644
denying claims

1155
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:52,109
as a profit center to the extent that

1156
00:41:52,109 --> 00:41:54,210
there was a person called the denial nurse,

1157
00:41:54,589 --> 00:41:56,510
that this person's job I don't know if

1158
00:41:56,510 --> 00:41:57,789
it was a female, could have been a

1159
00:41:57,789 --> 00:41:58,289
male.

1160
00:41:58,670 --> 00:42:01,489
Their job was to simply deny claims,

1161
00:42:02,235 --> 00:42:04,015
find a reason to deny the claim.

1162
00:42:04,474 --> 00:42:06,315
Well, why do we have insurance? What am

1163
00:42:06,315 --> 00:42:08,474
I paying the the for the insurance for

1164
00:42:08,474 --> 00:42:10,715
if you're gonna cover me? And then you

1165
00:42:10,715 --> 00:42:11,595
find out there's,

1166
00:42:12,235 --> 00:42:14,795
something called a benefits manager that's in between

1167
00:42:14,795 --> 00:42:15,535
the pharmaceutical

1168
00:42:15,835 --> 00:42:18,089
company and your doctor. We don't even need

1169
00:42:18,089 --> 00:42:19,710
that person, but they're

1170
00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:22,349
all these profits and It is bonkers.

1171
00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:23,710
I'm in Italy.

1172
00:42:24,170 --> 00:42:26,569
Yes. They take half your salary for taxes.

1173
00:42:26,569 --> 00:42:27,309
That's true.

1174
00:42:27,929 --> 00:42:28,429
But

1175
00:42:29,704 --> 00:42:32,265
I had an accident 20 years ago while

1176
00:42:32,265 --> 00:42:33,164
I was there.

1177
00:42:34,585 --> 00:42:35,804
Busted up my head,

1178
00:42:36,505 --> 00:42:37,885
bleeding all over the place.

1179
00:42:38,344 --> 00:42:39,724
They rushed me to the ER,

1180
00:42:40,105 --> 00:42:43,164
patched me up, follow ups, you know, stitches,

1181
00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:45,640
care, everything. You know how much I paid?

1182
00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:47,880
0. The taxi ride over maybe.

1183
00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:50,900
I mean, why are we paying so much

1184
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:52,980
for health care? We have not the best

1185
00:42:52,980 --> 00:42:54,180
health care in the world. We have the

1186
00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:55,635
worst health care in the world.

1187
00:42:56,114 --> 00:42:58,514
Yeah. It is a good switcheroo, ain't it?

1188
00:42:58,514 --> 00:43:00,195
Lot of this country's got a lot of

1189
00:43:00,195 --> 00:43:03,074
switcheroo ing going on. Yes. That's what little

1190
00:43:03,074 --> 00:43:04,594
switcheroo. Yeah. A little shell game. I think

1191
00:43:04,594 --> 00:43:05,815
they're called shell games.

1192
00:43:06,195 --> 00:43:08,755
Right? Follow follow the peanut and then good

1193
00:43:08,755 --> 00:43:10,375
luck. Well, you discover

1194
00:43:10,755 --> 00:43:13,239
that there's no peanut. I grew up around

1195
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,079
Times Square when they really had real shell

1196
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:16,139
games. You know, before

1197
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,619
Giuliani came and turned it into Disneyland,

1198
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:20,839
there was there was real life on the

1199
00:43:20,839 --> 00:43:23,655
streets, you know, guys selling watches, you know,

1200
00:43:23,894 --> 00:43:26,054
Like that scene in, in Shaft. You know?

1201
00:43:26,054 --> 00:43:28,454
He's got 12 watches up his arm. He

1202
00:43:28,454 --> 00:43:30,155
says, hey, brother. I bought a timepiece.

1203
00:43:31,255 --> 00:43:33,815
That's that's the Times Square I remember. Alright.

1204
00:43:33,815 --> 00:43:35,494
Let's get back to you. The the full

1205
00:43:35,494 --> 00:43:37,849
title of this class that you teach, one

1206
00:43:37,849 --> 00:43:40,190
of the classes African American images

1207
00:43:40,730 --> 00:43:42,110
in American cinema.

1208
00:43:42,650 --> 00:43:44,809
I only get as far I start from

1209
00:43:44,809 --> 00:43:46,429
the very beginning, which is,

1210
00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:49,210
an image called the cake walk, which is

1211
00:43:49,210 --> 00:43:49,449
a,

1212
00:43:50,090 --> 00:43:52,190
black and white silent image

1213
00:43:52,494 --> 00:43:55,054
of these black folks all gussied up in

1214
00:43:55,054 --> 00:43:56,355
their Sunday best,

1215
00:43:56,894 --> 00:43:59,394
making fun of white society. I think that's

1216
00:43:59,534 --> 00:44:01,775
what the cakewalk is about, and they're just

1217
00:44:01,775 --> 00:44:03,695
dancing and prancing and having a great time.

1218
00:44:03,695 --> 00:44:05,295
And it's just so much fun to watch

1219
00:44:05,295 --> 00:44:06,675
them very unselfconsciously,

1220
00:44:07,695 --> 00:44:08,309
doing this.

1221
00:44:08,789 --> 00:44:10,010
And that's the first,

1222
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:12,390
images that that I'm aware of, motion picture

1223
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:15,930
images I'm aware of of, African American people,

1224
00:44:16,789 --> 00:44:19,269
in cinema, followed the next year by something

1225
00:44:19,269 --> 00:44:20,170
called the kiss,

1226
00:44:20,565 --> 00:44:22,164
which I really gotta see if I can

1227
00:44:22,164 --> 00:44:23,844
get a clip of that, which and add

1228
00:44:23,844 --> 00:44:26,085
to my lecture, because I have, some still

1229
00:44:26,085 --> 00:44:26,585
photographs.

1230
00:44:26,885 --> 00:44:28,565
But it's a black man and a black

1231
00:44:28,565 --> 00:44:30,164
woman, and they kiss, and it's a big,

1232
00:44:30,164 --> 00:44:32,264
you know, close-up, and it's a big deal.

1233
00:44:32,420 --> 00:44:33,700
But I go all the way I can

1234
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:35,880
only get as far as the blaxploitation,

1235
00:44:36,579 --> 00:44:37,079
period.

1236
00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:39,300
And I I think it's a good place

1237
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:40,039
to stop

1238
00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:43,300
because it really was the beginning of this

1239
00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:45,400
explosion, in my opinion,

1240
00:44:46,125 --> 00:44:49,804
of, of black directors and actors and so

1241
00:44:49,804 --> 00:44:50,304
forth

1242
00:44:50,605 --> 00:44:51,585
that was never

1243
00:44:52,125 --> 00:44:53,804
was never able to be put back into

1244
00:44:53,804 --> 00:44:54,385
the box.

1245
00:44:55,085 --> 00:44:57,485
Because out of that, we have Spike Lee,

1246
00:44:57,485 --> 00:45:00,704
and Ava DuVernay, and Julie Dash, and,

1247
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:03,940
just so many wonderful, amazing

1248
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:04,820
directors.

1249
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:05,780
Now

1250
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,739
the amount of directors that are African American,

1251
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:11,440
it's like 5 or 6 pages when you

1252
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,359
do a Google search. Did you I can't

1253
00:45:13,359 --> 00:45:15,780
remember. Was Gene Roddenberry with the interracial

1254
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:16,485
kiss

1255
00:45:17,445 --> 00:45:19,885
between, Kirk and Uhura? Yes. It's definitely part

1256
00:45:19,885 --> 00:45:22,244
of my class. The first interracial kiss on

1257
00:45:22,244 --> 00:45:22,985
on television.

1258
00:45:23,285 --> 00:45:25,545
I love telling that story because Nichelle Nichols,

1259
00:45:25,605 --> 00:45:28,664
who played lieutenant Uhura, was telling it. Roddenberry,

1260
00:45:28,885 --> 00:45:29,519
who was

1261
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,940
really so far ahead,

1262
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:34,480
of his time, I I think he stands

1263
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,880
on the shoulders of of Rod Serling, who

1264
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:37,380
also

1265
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,239
was, I think, a humanist. So the whole

1266
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:41,699
point of Star Trek for

1267
00:45:42,005 --> 00:45:44,005
for those of you who are probably looking

1268
00:45:44,005 --> 00:45:45,864
at the the 17 variations,

1269
00:45:46,244 --> 00:45:48,505
but the original Star Trek was very groundbreaking

1270
00:45:49,525 --> 00:45:51,704
because it was the first time there was,

1271
00:45:52,085 --> 00:45:53,465
a group of multiracial

1272
00:45:53,844 --> 00:45:56,265
people on the bridge of a of a

1273
00:45:57,219 --> 00:45:59,000
ship, a starship in this case.

1274
00:45:59,780 --> 00:46:02,360
Lieutenant Uhura was a black female communications

1275
00:46:02,660 --> 00:46:03,160
officer.

1276
00:46:03,780 --> 00:46:05,559
James Kirk, of course, was the captain.

1277
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:08,039
Anyway, in 1968,

1278
00:46:08,420 --> 00:46:11,380
as this first iteration of Star Trek was

1279
00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:12,519
coming to an end,

1280
00:46:13,235 --> 00:46:14,215
there was a script

1281
00:46:14,594 --> 00:46:15,414
where they

1282
00:46:16,035 --> 00:46:17,414
get captured by this

1283
00:46:17,795 --> 00:46:18,295
planet

1284
00:46:19,074 --> 00:46:20,994
where the people on the planet can make

1285
00:46:20,994 --> 00:46:23,175
Kirk and Uhura and,

1286
00:46:23,875 --> 00:46:24,375
Spock

1287
00:46:24,929 --> 00:46:25,670
and nurse,

1288
00:46:26,609 --> 00:46:28,289
can't remember her name, nurse, I want to

1289
00:46:28,289 --> 00:46:30,530
say nurse Ratchet, but that's one clue of

1290
00:46:30,530 --> 00:46:33,409
cuckoo's nest. That's cuckoo's nest. Yeah. So that's

1291
00:46:33,409 --> 00:46:34,949
not right, but the nurse,

1292
00:46:35,489 --> 00:46:36,469
they were a couple.

1293
00:46:36,954 --> 00:46:37,194
And,

1294
00:46:37,755 --> 00:46:39,835
these people are making them do stupid things.

1295
00:46:39,835 --> 00:46:42,474
They're prancing around. They're dancing. They're, you know,

1296
00:46:42,474 --> 00:46:42,974
whatever.

1297
00:46:43,355 --> 00:46:45,194
At any rate, they get the idea that

1298
00:46:45,194 --> 00:46:47,534
they're gonna make Kirk and Uhura, kiss.

1299
00:46:48,315 --> 00:46:50,394
So the the the studio knows they have

1300
00:46:50,394 --> 00:46:52,679
the script, and the deal was

1301
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:55,319
that we're we're gonna shoot it 2 ways.

1302
00:46:55,319 --> 00:46:57,079
We're gonna shoot it with the kiss, and

1303
00:46:57,079 --> 00:46:58,699
we're gonna shoot it without the kiss.

1304
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,639
Certainly, because the southern markets are not gonna

1305
00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:03,420
really like to see this.

1306
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,199
Right? It's bad enough that they're together touching

1307
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:07,565
each other. We're talking

1308
00:47:08,025 --> 00:47:09,484
1968. Right? Just before

1309
00:47:09,945 --> 00:47:11,484
Hoot Kiss was coming to dinner,

1310
00:47:12,425 --> 00:47:13,565
came out, I believe.

1311
00:47:13,864 --> 00:47:16,505
They shoot the scene with the kiss. Right?

1312
00:47:16,505 --> 00:47:18,585
Now they're running out of time. It's golden

1313
00:47:18,585 --> 00:47:20,710
hour. And golden hour in film, for those

1314
00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:22,490
of you who don't know, is extraordinarily

1315
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:25,430
expensive. Right? It's double time heading into triple

1316
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:27,750
time. It's very expensive. So they wanna get

1317
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:28,490
this done.

1318
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:30,950
So they do 2 or 3 takes with

1319
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:32,390
the kiss. This is on film, by the

1320
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:32,890
way.

1321
00:47:33,195 --> 00:47:33,594
And,

1322
00:47:33,994 --> 00:47:35,114
they get to the point of the director

1323
00:47:35,114 --> 00:47:36,555
says, okay. Let's do the one without the

1324
00:47:36,555 --> 00:47:37,055
kiss.

1325
00:47:37,515 --> 00:47:38,414
Alright. Now

1326
00:47:39,114 --> 00:47:40,015
they do it

1327
00:47:40,315 --> 00:47:40,815
supposedly.

1328
00:47:41,434 --> 00:47:41,934
Now

1329
00:47:42,394 --> 00:47:42,894
nowadays,

1330
00:47:43,275 --> 00:47:45,035
when a director is working a scene, they

1331
00:47:45,035 --> 00:47:45,934
get to see

1332
00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:48,010
what the camera sees.

1333
00:47:48,949 --> 00:47:51,429
So in those days in 68, there was

1334
00:47:51,429 --> 00:47:53,829
no video village. There was no television monitor

1335
00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:55,429
or whatever to be able to see what

1336
00:47:55,429 --> 00:47:56,869
was going on. So the only person that

1337
00:47:56,869 --> 00:47:59,449
knew what really happened was the camera operator.

1338
00:48:00,150 --> 00:48:01,369
And he wasn't talking.

1339
00:48:02,315 --> 00:48:03,855
So they get to the next day

1340
00:48:04,474 --> 00:48:06,014
and they're screening the dailies.

1341
00:48:06,315 --> 00:48:08,795
Dailies are the film that is shot the

1342
00:48:08,795 --> 00:48:11,674
day before is processed and then screened for

1343
00:48:11,674 --> 00:48:13,434
the director, the producer, in this case, the

1344
00:48:13,434 --> 00:48:15,114
studio, because they really wanna see how this

1345
00:48:15,114 --> 00:48:16,440
kiss thing worked out.

1346
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,760
So they're showing this they're showing it and

1347
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,519
there's the kiss. There's the kiss. It's great.

1348
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:21,800
And they say, okay. Let's see the one

1349
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,960
without the kiss. So they put that take

1350
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:24,859
up on the projector

1351
00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:26,699
and lo and behold,

1352
00:48:27,319 --> 00:48:27,819
Shatner,

1353
00:48:28,934 --> 00:48:31,035
instead of not kissing her,

1354
00:48:32,055 --> 00:48:32,555
he

1355
00:48:33,655 --> 00:48:35,335
I'm sorry. He doesn't kiss her. But what

1356
00:48:35,335 --> 00:48:37,414
he does is he turns, he bends her

1357
00:48:37,414 --> 00:48:39,735
down and he looks straight at the camera.

1358
00:48:39,735 --> 00:48:40,954
He spikes the lens

1359
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:43,309
blowing the take. So it doesn't matter whether

1360
00:48:43,309 --> 00:48:44,829
he kissed her or not. He can't use

1361
00:48:44,829 --> 00:48:45,489
the take.

1362
00:48:45,869 --> 00:48:47,730
So now they have to use the kiss.

1363
00:48:48,030 --> 00:48:50,349
And that was, I'm sure that was deliberate

1364
00:48:50,349 --> 00:48:52,430
on Roddenberry and Shatner's part. I don't think

1365
00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:53,969
Shatner did it on his own.

1366
00:48:54,434 --> 00:48:55,655
But Roddenberry Shatner

1367
00:48:55,954 --> 00:48:57,335
made so that the kiss

1368
00:48:57,795 --> 00:48:58,675
is was,

1369
00:48:59,074 --> 00:48:59,574
shown.

1370
00:49:00,035 --> 00:49:02,275
And I I give them high marks for

1371
00:49:02,275 --> 00:49:04,275
for having done that. That was the year,

1372
00:49:04,275 --> 00:49:06,114
by the way, for those of you who

1373
00:49:06,114 --> 00:49:08,835
don't know, 1968 was a very, very pivotal

1374
00:49:08,835 --> 00:49:11,760
year. Martin Luther King was killed in April.

1375
00:49:12,380 --> 00:49:13,679
Loving versus Virginia

1376
00:49:14,380 --> 00:49:17,280
was decided by the Supreme Court, which allowed

1377
00:49:17,339 --> 00:49:18,880
that interracial marriages

1378
00:49:20,539 --> 00:49:21,359
were legal,

1379
00:49:21,659 --> 00:49:22,639
and it was unconstitutional

1380
00:49:23,099 --> 00:49:25,984
to prevent interracial marriage. Sidney Poitier

1381
00:49:26,284 --> 00:49:28,764
was in a movie, called guess who's coming

1382
00:49:28,764 --> 00:49:29,344
to dinner.

1383
00:49:29,884 --> 00:49:31,324
So all this is going on at the

1384
00:49:31,324 --> 00:49:32,844
same time, and then you have the kiss.

1385
00:49:32,844 --> 00:49:34,065
Pretty powerful year.

1386
00:49:34,444 --> 00:49:36,924
Again, it's impossible for cinema not to be

1387
00:49:36,924 --> 00:49:39,579
political if it's doing its job. But the

1388
00:49:39,579 --> 00:49:41,980
fact that that's political makes me crazy. It's

1389
00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:44,460
not. It's not political, but we've made it

1390
00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:46,940
into politics. Like, the first time, 2 women

1391
00:49:46,940 --> 00:49:48,619
kiss or 2 men kiss. That's a big

1392
00:49:48,780 --> 00:49:50,880
Sure. That's political. Right?

1393
00:49:51,355 --> 00:49:53,535
I just I think it's so fascinating that

1394
00:49:54,235 --> 00:49:55,055
along the way,

1395
00:49:55,795 --> 00:49:56,295
which

1396
00:49:57,035 --> 00:49:59,454
actors and or actresses were acceptable

1397
00:50:00,394 --> 00:50:03,570
in whichever like, is a Dorothy Dandridge more

1398
00:50:03,730 --> 00:50:04,530
acceptable or is,

1399
00:50:05,090 --> 00:50:07,890
Bruce Lee, for example? You know, why is

1400
00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:10,849
that more acceptable? Or that that sort of

1401
00:50:10,849 --> 00:50:13,590
idea that there were certain actors and actresses

1402
00:50:14,849 --> 00:50:15,349
who

1403
00:50:15,984 --> 00:50:17,925
everyone could embrace for whatever

1404
00:50:18,385 --> 00:50:19,605
particular reason.

1405
00:50:20,704 --> 00:50:22,784
I always think that's really interesting. It it

1406
00:50:22,784 --> 00:50:24,945
is. And and one of the things I

1407
00:50:24,945 --> 00:50:27,605
talk about in my lecture is the difficulty

1408
00:50:27,664 --> 00:50:29,445
for people like Dorothy Dandridge

1409
00:50:29,905 --> 00:50:31,364
and, Lena Horne,

1410
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,960
Hazel Scott to be accepted and to find

1411
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:36,460
roles.

1412
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,360
On the on the male side, you had

1413
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,180
Hara Belafonte,

1414
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:41,660
you know, who was a heartthrob,

1415
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:44,619
you know, for many women, black and white,

1416
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,260
which was part of the of the problem.

1417
00:50:47,555 --> 00:50:49,175
I mean, an amazing amazingly

1418
00:50:49,555 --> 00:50:50,055
talent

1419
00:50:50,515 --> 00:50:51,974
multi talented And activist.

1420
00:50:52,515 --> 00:50:54,215
Very much so. He was an activist

1421
00:50:54,914 --> 00:50:57,715
and and never shied away from that. He

1422
00:50:57,715 --> 00:51:00,515
and the horn, both were part participants in

1423
00:51:00,515 --> 00:51:01,015
the

1424
00:51:01,610 --> 00:51:04,090
civil rights, the march on Washington. There's a

1425
00:51:04,090 --> 00:51:04,989
great PBS

1426
00:51:05,530 --> 00:51:06,030
interview

1427
00:51:07,210 --> 00:51:07,710
with

1428
00:51:08,090 --> 00:51:08,590
Belafonte.

1429
00:51:10,010 --> 00:51:12,190
I'm gonna leave some people out, but Belafonte

1430
00:51:12,329 --> 00:51:13,150
is in it.

1431
00:51:13,769 --> 00:51:15,630
Believe it or not, Charlton Heston

1432
00:51:16,324 --> 00:51:18,324
is in it. Mister pry the gun from

1433
00:51:18,324 --> 00:51:20,644
my cold dead hands. He was part of

1434
00:51:20,644 --> 00:51:23,204
it. He was very much on board, with

1435
00:51:23,204 --> 00:51:25,545
the ideas behind the march on Washington.

1436
00:51:26,404 --> 00:51:28,739
Marlon Brando was part of that group. It

1437
00:51:28,739 --> 00:51:31,300
was a discussion during during the the March

1438
00:51:31,300 --> 00:51:31,960
on Washington.

1439
00:51:32,659 --> 00:51:33,960
I'm pretty sure it was PBS.

1440
00:51:34,260 --> 00:51:36,019
I guess my point is, what I what

1441
00:51:36,019 --> 00:51:37,940
I hope that the students will walk away

1442
00:51:37,940 --> 00:51:39,239
with is an appreciation

1443
00:51:40,579 --> 00:51:41,079
for

1444
00:51:42,554 --> 00:51:44,574
how we got to where we are now.

1445
00:51:45,514 --> 00:51:46,894
And the responsibility

1446
00:51:47,594 --> 00:51:48,074
of

1447
00:51:48,394 --> 00:51:50,394
that I think they have to be charged

1448
00:51:50,394 --> 00:51:50,894
with

1449
00:51:51,755 --> 00:51:52,655
about exploring

1450
00:51:53,594 --> 00:51:54,815
our world now,

1451
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,839
knowing where we have come from, knowing the

1452
00:51:57,839 --> 00:51:58,659
the way media,

1453
00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:00,800
the way film had been used in the

1454
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,980
past. What can they do now

1455
00:52:03,359 --> 00:52:05,380
to to enlarge the conversation,

1456
00:52:05,679 --> 00:52:06,900
to to encourage

1457
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:09,139
dialogue among people,

1458
00:52:10,025 --> 00:52:11,644
to to share the experiences.

1459
00:52:12,744 --> 00:52:14,025
One of the things that I say to

1460
00:52:14,025 --> 00:52:17,805
them is, please do not make another Marvel

1461
00:52:18,184 --> 00:52:19,085
hero movie.

1462
00:52:19,704 --> 00:52:22,265
Make something that you care about, really care

1463
00:52:22,265 --> 00:52:24,599
about, know, not just another action movie. I

1464
00:52:24,599 --> 00:52:27,000
love action movies. I'm a John Wick fan.

1465
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:27,739
No question.

1466
00:52:28,199 --> 00:52:28,699
Okay.

1467
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:32,380
But make something that means something to you,

1468
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,719
you know, that that will open up people's

1469
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:36,219
thinking,

1470
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:37,260
hearts.

1471
00:52:38,025 --> 00:52:39,304
I don't know if they'll be getting that

1472
00:52:39,304 --> 00:52:40,525
message. Let's see.

1473
00:52:41,065 --> 00:52:43,784
Some are. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, you

1474
00:52:43,784 --> 00:52:45,224
were you were talking about Bruce Lee and

1475
00:52:45,224 --> 00:52:46,984
Dorothy Dandridge, and I was just thinking they

1476
00:52:46,984 --> 00:52:48,844
basically basically had the same problems

1477
00:52:49,304 --> 00:52:51,164
just later. You know, Bruce Lee,

1478
00:52:51,929 --> 00:52:54,250
amazingly talented, you know, had done the string

1479
00:52:54,250 --> 00:52:54,909
of successful

1480
00:52:55,289 --> 00:52:58,089
Chinese kung fu movies, came to Hollywood, and

1481
00:52:58,089 --> 00:53:00,089
they they just said, nah, you know, you

1482
00:53:00,969 --> 00:53:01,630
you know,

1483
00:53:02,329 --> 00:53:03,550
nobody wants to see

1484
00:53:03,929 --> 00:53:05,389
you do this stuff.

1485
00:53:05,765 --> 00:53:07,864
And he wanted that part really badly,

1486
00:53:08,405 --> 00:53:10,184
you know, but they they couldn't

1487
00:53:11,285 --> 00:53:13,545
imagine they couldn't imagine an Asian man

1488
00:53:15,045 --> 00:53:17,925
being who's a real kung fu artist walking

1489
00:53:17,925 --> 00:53:20,005
through the wild west doing kung fu. They'd

1490
00:53:20,005 --> 00:53:21,545
rather have a white guy

1491
00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:24,719
who didn't know kung fu, who was all

1492
00:53:24,859 --> 00:53:27,500
faked in camera trickery. I remember being really

1493
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:28,559
upset about that

1494
00:53:28,859 --> 00:53:29,359
because,

1495
00:53:29,980 --> 00:53:31,359
I was a Bruce Lee fan,

1496
00:53:31,739 --> 00:53:34,219
and I was studying kung fu, Kung Fu

1497
00:53:34,299 --> 00:53:34,799
S.

1498
00:53:35,545 --> 00:53:37,144
I was glad that the show was on

1499
00:53:37,144 --> 00:53:37,804
the air,

1500
00:53:38,664 --> 00:53:40,045
but I remember saying,

1501
00:53:40,744 --> 00:53:42,344
that should be Bruce Lee. I mean, this

1502
00:53:42,344 --> 00:53:43,784
guy doesn't even know what he's doing. There's

1503
00:53:43,784 --> 00:53:45,545
all kind of I did. I think Bruce

1504
00:53:45,545 --> 00:53:48,250
Lee taught David Carradine, didn't he? Yeah.

1505
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:50,630
Mhmm. He took a lot of irony about

1506
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:51,530
a lot of people.

1507
00:53:51,989 --> 00:53:52,869
A lot of people,

1508
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:53,690
studied,

1509
00:53:54,069 --> 00:53:55,609
when he opened up his school.

1510
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:56,809
He,

1511
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:59,210
he he worked with a lot of Hollywood

1512
00:54:00,135 --> 00:54:00,635
actors.

1513
00:54:01,574 --> 00:54:02,954
And he was sexy.

1514
00:54:05,655 --> 00:54:07,175
I mean, he would've done it would've it

1515
00:54:07,255 --> 00:54:09,835
he would've done real well. But again Yeah.

1516
00:54:09,974 --> 00:54:11,574
Do you like water? I'm like, I'm already

1517
00:54:11,574 --> 00:54:12,480
there, buddy. That's right.

1518
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,199
I'll get all the people. Every time you

1519
00:54:15,199 --> 00:54:16,659
see me, you turn into water.

1520
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:18,980
Yes, sir. I wish I had that power.

1521
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,320
But yeah. No. I I I think that's

1522
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,019
the thing. It was a limitation

1523
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,105
and a and a desire to to control

1524
00:54:27,724 --> 00:54:29,105
the truth about things.

1525
00:54:29,485 --> 00:54:31,805
If America's interested in kung fu, why not

1526
00:54:31,805 --> 00:54:33,805
go to the source? You know, why would

1527
00:54:33,805 --> 00:54:35,344
you take a pale imitation?

1528
00:54:35,805 --> 00:54:37,405
I'm not trying to make a pun here.

1529
00:54:37,405 --> 00:54:40,125
No pun. Yeah. Intended. Yeah. But it's a

1530
00:54:40,125 --> 00:54:43,269
pale imitation. You know? Yeah. And did the

1531
00:54:43,269 --> 00:54:46,309
world end when Kirk kissed lieutenant O'Horn? World

1532
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:47,049
didn't end.

1533
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:48,250
You know?

1534
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:51,510
It's not gonna end now if because we

1535
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:52,010
understand

1536
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:56,230
the true history of racism and slavery and

1537
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:57,530
and cultural misappropriation.

1538
00:54:58,175 --> 00:55:00,414
World's not gonna end. We're gonna know more

1539
00:55:00,414 --> 00:55:01,875
about what went on.

1540
00:55:02,574 --> 00:55:04,494
You know? Every time someone says to me,

1541
00:55:04,494 --> 00:55:06,734
well, you know, why should I feel guilty

1542
00:55:06,734 --> 00:55:08,494
about it? You shouldn't feel guilty. I don't

1543
00:55:08,494 --> 00:55:10,255
want you to feel guilty. I want you

1544
00:55:10,255 --> 00:55:12,114
to help me make it better.

1545
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,739
By your feeling guilty, you're sort of saying,

1546
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,179
well, there's nothing to be

1547
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:18,239
done. You know, I feel bad. I don't

1548
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,300
want you to feel bad.

1549
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,199
Yeah. It's interesting. I read some some woman

1550
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:24,880
was talking about how her kid came home

1551
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,954
and he was crying because, you know, they

1552
00:55:26,954 --> 00:55:28,474
had learned about I don't remember if it

1553
00:55:28,474 --> 00:55:30,735
was the holocaust or slavery. It was something

1554
00:55:30,875 --> 00:55:32,735
terrible that history has

1555
00:55:33,035 --> 00:55:34,335
has done. And,

1556
00:55:34,715 --> 00:55:35,914
you know, she said, oh, my kid was

1557
00:55:35,914 --> 00:55:37,695
crying and I don't wanna and I thought,

1558
00:55:37,755 --> 00:55:40,095
that's a good thing. Your child is experiencing

1559
00:55:40,235 --> 00:55:42,559
something called empathy. That's beautiful.

1560
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:45,920
That's actually something to encourage in people.

1561
00:55:46,380 --> 00:55:49,340
Yeah. We want we want more empathetic people.

1562
00:55:49,340 --> 00:55:51,900
I'm hoping that I wanna I wanna say

1563
00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:53,340
better minds. I don't know if that's the

1564
00:55:53,340 --> 00:55:56,215
correct word, but I'm hoping that Better angels,

1565
00:55:56,215 --> 00:55:58,614
maybe. Better angels. We will we will appeal

1566
00:55:58,614 --> 00:56:00,875
to the better angels, and we will prevent

1567
00:56:01,655 --> 00:56:02,155
the,

1568
00:56:03,335 --> 00:56:06,054
elimination of history, true history being taught in

1569
00:56:06,054 --> 00:56:06,795
in school.

1570
00:56:07,094 --> 00:56:09,514
I I'd like to see civics brought back.

1571
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,320
I'd like to see people understand how government

1572
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:13,220
really works,

1573
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:14,579
understand

1574
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:17,599
that it's you know, the president can't do

1575
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:20,260
everything. Then the vice president can't do anything.

1576
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:23,135
That's for sure. Yeah. The vice president, you

1577
00:56:23,135 --> 00:56:25,775
know, responsible for the president does is kinda

1578
00:56:25,775 --> 00:56:27,315
silly. It is silly.

1579
00:56:27,614 --> 00:56:29,215
But people just don't know. But that's the

1580
00:56:29,215 --> 00:56:30,034
thing. Ignorance

1581
00:56:31,295 --> 00:56:34,094
is a powerful tool for the people that

1582
00:56:34,094 --> 00:56:35,235
wield the power.

1583
00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:37,739
Well, yes. It's a very useful tool. Yeah.

1584
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:39,659
Mhmm. Yeah. No. I agree.

1585
00:56:40,039 --> 00:56:41,880
Yeah. So as an instructor, I have to

1586
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:43,179
push back against that.

1587
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,480
Yeah. And I'm glad you do. I really

1588
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,559
did enjoy your class. It's excellent. And I

1589
00:56:47,559 --> 00:56:48,859
really enjoyed watching

1590
00:56:49,755 --> 00:56:52,335
your students take it in because

1591
00:56:52,875 --> 00:56:53,855
it's the seed.

1592
00:56:54,635 --> 00:56:56,635
Well, that's good. I I must admit, I'm

1593
00:56:56,635 --> 00:56:58,954
so busy talking that I don't even see

1594
00:56:58,954 --> 00:57:01,275
that. Yeah. I'm focusing on what I'm trying

1595
00:57:01,275 --> 00:57:01,855
to say.

1596
00:57:02,269 --> 00:57:05,010
But I I I take pride in introducing

1597
00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:06,670
them to people that they've never heard of

1598
00:57:06,670 --> 00:57:10,269
before, like Oscar Micheaux, and understanding that Hadda

1599
00:57:10,269 --> 00:57:10,769
McDaniel

1600
00:57:11,150 --> 00:57:12,050
got an Oscar.

1601
00:57:12,589 --> 00:57:14,269
You know? A lot of people don't know

1602
00:57:14,269 --> 00:57:17,244
that. You know? 1st black woman to get

1603
00:57:17,244 --> 00:57:19,905
an Oscar. To understand that there were

1604
00:57:20,445 --> 00:57:21,664
many, many

1605
00:57:22,285 --> 00:57:24,945
black owned film production companies

1606
00:57:25,804 --> 00:57:26,945
in the twenties,

1607
00:57:27,269 --> 00:57:28,730
They they did a lot of work.

1608
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:31,909
Amos and Andy, the the the black man

1609
00:57:31,909 --> 00:57:33,989
who played the television version of Amos and

1610
00:57:33,989 --> 00:57:35,690
Andy, his name is Spencer Williams,

1611
00:57:36,469 --> 00:57:38,890
was in many of these early

1612
00:57:39,429 --> 00:57:40,170
race films

1613
00:57:40,925 --> 00:57:43,264
and continued to direct race films,

1614
00:57:44,045 --> 00:57:47,005
in the forties and, and fifties, even though

1615
00:57:47,005 --> 00:57:47,664
he was

1616
00:57:48,525 --> 00:57:50,625
in the fifties playing this

1617
00:57:51,804 --> 00:57:52,945
shucking and jiving

1618
00:57:53,405 --> 00:57:55,105
character, Amos and Andy.

1619
00:57:55,569 --> 00:57:57,589
You know? People should know that Bill Cosby

1620
00:57:57,969 --> 00:58:00,530
was a very successful comedian before he became

1621
00:58:00,530 --> 00:58:03,429
America's dad. He was a very successful comedian

1622
00:58:03,889 --> 00:58:06,690
who was in a a really cutting edge

1623
00:58:06,690 --> 00:58:09,414
TV show called I Spy. And, you know,

1624
00:58:09,414 --> 00:58:12,534
people in my generation, we revered Bill Cosby

1625
00:58:12,534 --> 00:58:15,014
for that. You know? Richard Pryor came along.

1626
00:58:15,014 --> 00:58:17,255
It was like, oh, this is amazing. We

1627
00:58:17,255 --> 00:58:19,414
got 2 guys that are just hilarious. You

1628
00:58:19,414 --> 00:58:19,914
know?

1629
00:58:20,214 --> 00:58:22,829
Have you ever seen Richard Pryor's bit about

1630
00:58:22,829 --> 00:58:25,170
God when he comes on stage and yeah.

1631
00:58:25,950 --> 00:58:27,869
I have I've I've listened to his albums.

1632
00:58:27,869 --> 00:58:29,390
I used to try to do it, then

1633
00:58:29,390 --> 00:58:31,550
the one with the monkey running around is

1634
00:58:31,550 --> 00:58:31,869
like,

1635
00:58:32,910 --> 00:58:35,070
It's tricky for people like Bill Cosby, of

1636
00:58:35,070 --> 00:58:38,275
course, because, like you said, a brilliant comic,

1637
00:58:38,574 --> 00:58:39,074
brilliant

1638
00:58:40,174 --> 00:58:40,835
at everything

1639
00:58:41,135 --> 00:58:41,954
that he did,

1640
00:58:42,414 --> 00:58:42,914
and

1641
00:58:43,454 --> 00:58:45,635
America's dad and beloved.

1642
00:58:46,414 --> 00:58:48,269
But the truth of the matter is, you

1643
00:58:48,269 --> 00:58:50,429
know, also a monster. And that's a really

1644
00:58:50,429 --> 00:58:53,070
interesting thing Yes. I think for people to

1645
00:58:53,070 --> 00:58:55,390
understand is you can be both things. Yes.

1646
00:58:55,390 --> 00:58:56,530
You can be brilliant

1647
00:58:56,909 --> 00:58:57,650
and do

1648
00:58:58,030 --> 00:59:00,429
incredible bodies of work and be a terrible

1649
00:59:00,429 --> 00:59:02,289
person. A lot of our arts,

1650
00:59:02,644 --> 00:59:05,764
a lot of our history is that. Mhmm.

1651
00:59:05,764 --> 00:59:07,925
Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I I don't shy

1652
00:59:07,925 --> 00:59:09,684
away from that. I I say that. I

1653
00:59:09,684 --> 00:59:11,445
say that in the lectures. We didn't know

1654
00:59:11,445 --> 00:59:12,984
at the time that he was a monster,

1655
00:59:13,045 --> 00:59:15,125
that he was drugging women all the way

1656
00:59:15,125 --> 00:59:15,625
back

1657
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:17,420
when he was doing I Spy.

1658
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:20,039
It's so weird because I'll it'll come across

1659
00:59:20,039 --> 00:59:22,840
my timeline is The Cosby Show, and I

1660
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,079
freaking love that show. I'm sorry I love

1661
00:59:25,079 --> 00:59:27,079
it, and I love A Different World. And

1662
00:59:27,079 --> 00:59:29,159
I watch these shows, and somewhere in the

1663
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:30,599
back of my mind, you know, the little

1664
00:59:30,599 --> 00:59:32,894
birdie is saying, yeah. But yeah. But I'm

1665
00:59:32,894 --> 00:59:35,855
like, yeah. But, shit, it's so good. Yeah.

1666
00:59:35,855 --> 00:59:36,355
Yeah.

1667
00:59:36,894 --> 00:59:38,894
It was so beautiful. It's like, how do

1668
00:59:38,894 --> 00:59:41,375
you hold both those thoughts at the same

1669
00:59:41,375 --> 00:59:41,875
time?

1670
00:59:42,335 --> 00:59:43,954
That that's really not

1671
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:45,699
that unusual.

1672
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:47,539
I mean, for example,

1673
00:59:48,239 --> 00:59:50,799
I talk about the the minstrel man. Al

1674
00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:52,179
Jolson. Al Jolson.

1675
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:53,460
Al Jolson,

1676
00:59:53,839 --> 00:59:56,000
you know, made a fortune singing and playing

1677
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:56,659
in blackface.

1678
00:59:57,454 --> 00:59:59,054
And I asked my students, I said, well,

1679
00:59:59,054 --> 01:00:00,894
look at this clip. You know, he's singing

1680
01:00:00,894 --> 01:00:01,394
mammy

1681
01:00:01,695 --> 01:00:02,515
in blackface,

1682
01:00:03,295 --> 01:00:05,054
and they're cutting to his mother, who is

1683
01:00:05,054 --> 01:00:07,375
white. I said, didn't anybody notice that there

1684
01:00:07,375 --> 01:00:09,534
was a discrepancy here? Why is he in

1685
01:00:09,534 --> 01:00:10,034
blackface?

1686
01:00:10,869 --> 01:00:12,389
What's the need for him to be in

1687
01:00:12,389 --> 01:00:15,589
blackface singing mammy to his real mother? Well,

1688
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:18,230
maybe cinema mother who's sitting there white, looked

1689
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:20,250
like a nice little sweet old white lady.

1690
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:22,869
Didn't that bother didn't anybody say, wait a

1691
01:00:22,869 --> 01:00:24,570
minute. This is this is stupid.

1692
01:00:25,295 --> 01:00:26,675
But at the same time,

1693
01:00:27,135 --> 01:00:29,375
while he's making these, you know, kind of

1694
01:00:29,375 --> 01:00:29,875
negative,

1695
01:00:30,494 --> 01:00:32,114
images of African Americans,

1696
01:00:32,815 --> 01:00:35,394
as a person, I think he actually appreciated

1697
01:00:35,535 --> 01:00:38,114
African American culture. I think he respected

1698
01:00:38,699 --> 01:00:39,519
African American,

1699
01:00:40,300 --> 01:00:41,519
entertainers and musicians.

1700
01:00:42,059 --> 01:00:43,839
And I tell I tell the story

1701
01:00:44,539 --> 01:00:45,599
to 2 men,

1702
01:00:45,980 --> 01:00:48,079
who were who I learned about at NYU,

1703
01:00:48,139 --> 01:00:50,780
by the way. The 2 men who,

1704
01:00:51,260 --> 01:00:53,280
Noble, Sissel, and Eubie Blake

1705
01:00:54,035 --> 01:00:56,375
were at the top of, of of African

1706
01:00:56,434 --> 01:00:56,934
American,

1707
01:00:57,394 --> 01:00:58,454
you know, music,

1708
01:00:58,835 --> 01:01:00,934
musical theater. They had done

1709
01:01:01,235 --> 01:01:01,735
a,

1710
01:01:02,594 --> 01:01:05,094
very successful show called Shuffle Along,

1711
01:01:05,635 --> 01:01:08,375
and Shuffle Along was basically like the Hamilton

1712
01:01:08,489 --> 01:01:10,650
of the day. I mean, anybody that was

1713
01:01:10,650 --> 01:01:11,150
anybody,

1714
01:01:11,530 --> 01:01:14,409
black, white, purple, whatever, went to see shuffle

1715
01:01:14,409 --> 01:01:15,389
along on Broadway.

1716
01:01:16,090 --> 01:01:19,449
Anyway, so these 2 successful artists are trying

1717
01:01:19,449 --> 01:01:20,349
to have dinner

1718
01:01:20,889 --> 01:01:21,710
in Connecticut.

1719
01:01:22,494 --> 01:01:23,554
That's the north.

1720
01:01:24,014 --> 01:01:26,335
And the restaurant owner would not serve them

1721
01:01:26,335 --> 01:01:28,755
because they were black. This is real life.

1722
01:01:28,894 --> 01:01:31,295
This is real life. And Al Jolson happened

1723
01:01:31,295 --> 01:01:33,375
to run into them, and they told him

1724
01:01:33,375 --> 01:01:34,994
what's going on, and he

1725
01:01:35,295 --> 01:01:36,835
made sure that they had dinner.

1726
01:01:37,949 --> 01:01:38,449
So

1727
01:01:39,389 --> 01:01:40,289
a small thing,

1728
01:01:40,829 --> 01:01:43,150
but an important thing because it balances it

1729
01:01:43,150 --> 01:01:43,650
out.

1730
01:01:43,949 --> 01:01:44,449
So

1731
01:01:45,469 --> 01:01:48,110
why, you know, why on one hand is

1732
01:01:48,110 --> 01:01:50,269
he doing these negative images, but at the

1733
01:01:50,269 --> 01:01:52,449
same hand, as a real person,

1734
01:01:53,234 --> 01:01:55,414
he's helping out doing something

1735
01:01:56,034 --> 01:01:56,534
very

1736
01:01:56,835 --> 01:01:57,974
activist. Right?

1737
01:01:58,434 --> 01:02:00,355
And I think that's the point. These two

1738
01:02:00,355 --> 01:02:02,514
things can both be true. Why is Step

1739
01:02:02,514 --> 01:02:05,094
and Fetchit? Step and Fetchit was so successful

1740
01:02:05,989 --> 01:02:08,809
making these horrible images of African Americans,

1741
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:12,869
only to be resurrected by the NAACP in

1742
01:02:12,869 --> 01:02:13,369
1974

1743
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:14,969
because they felt that

1744
01:02:15,510 --> 01:02:18,309
his character was like a Loki type figure

1745
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:18,809
figure.

1746
01:02:19,385 --> 01:02:20,605
Felt that his character,

1747
01:02:21,704 --> 01:02:23,545
you know, usually worked his way out of

1748
01:02:23,545 --> 01:02:25,784
situations because he knew more about things and

1749
01:02:25,784 --> 01:02:27,885
was able to trick so called superior

1750
01:02:28,505 --> 01:02:30,264
people. But as I tell my students, it's

1751
01:02:30,264 --> 01:02:32,844
still very painful to watch. And I love

1752
01:02:33,065 --> 01:02:34,125
playing that clip

1753
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:36,809
and have them guess what the hell he's

1754
01:02:36,949 --> 01:02:39,769
talking about because his patois is so

1755
01:02:40,389 --> 01:02:40,889
weird.

1756
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:44,329
And, you know, even after dozens of screenings,

1757
01:02:44,389 --> 01:02:46,844
I still can't understand everything that he's saying.

1758
01:02:47,005 --> 01:02:48,925
He doesn't talk like that in in real

1759
01:02:48,925 --> 01:02:49,324
life,

1760
01:02:49,804 --> 01:02:52,304
you know, but he created this persona.

1761
01:02:52,925 --> 01:02:53,664
Fred Astaire.

1762
01:02:55,005 --> 01:02:56,925
Fred Astaire does this thing in a a

1763
01:02:56,925 --> 01:02:59,184
movie called swing time where he's,

1764
01:02:59,679 --> 01:03:00,420
you know, supposedly

1765
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:04,400
paying homage to Bill Bojangles Robinson, who had

1766
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:04,900
revolutionized

1767
01:03:05,679 --> 01:03:07,059
tap dancing for everybody.

1768
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,400
And everybody recognized that Bo Bojangles was was,

1769
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,480
you know, the king. Right? Yet he does

1770
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,445
this thing in Swing Time, where he's dressing

1771
01:03:15,445 --> 01:03:17,945
up in his clownish outfit in blackface,

1772
01:03:19,204 --> 01:03:21,144
you know, and that is supposedly

1773
01:03:21,925 --> 01:03:22,425
honoring

1774
01:03:22,964 --> 01:03:25,605
Bojangles. Well, it's not. It's making you know,

1775
01:03:25,605 --> 01:03:27,684
it's saying, hey. I can take the best

1776
01:03:27,684 --> 01:03:30,184
from the best and make fun of you.

1777
01:03:30,539 --> 01:03:31,920
Well, in reality,

1778
01:03:32,539 --> 01:03:33,039
Bojangles

1779
01:03:34,300 --> 01:03:36,880
was just a master and was an amazing,

1780
01:03:37,340 --> 01:03:40,780
dancer. People like Savion Glover looked back at

1781
01:03:40,780 --> 01:03:43,420
his work. The Nicholas Brothers looked back at

1782
01:03:43,420 --> 01:03:44,719
what Bojangles contributed

1783
01:03:45,684 --> 01:03:48,664
And, Gregory Hines. I produced a

1784
01:03:49,684 --> 01:03:50,184
documentary

1785
01:03:50,644 --> 01:03:52,344
for Italian television and

1786
01:03:54,005 --> 01:03:56,244
we got to interview the Nicholas Brothers. We

1787
01:03:56,244 --> 01:03:57,944
got to interview Gregory Hines.

1788
01:03:58,929 --> 01:04:00,949
Unfortunately, Savion Glover's management

1789
01:04:01,250 --> 01:04:02,550
would not allow us

1790
01:04:02,849 --> 01:04:05,090
to do that, which was a shame. Brenda

1791
01:04:05,090 --> 01:04:07,730
Bufalino is a a white tap dancer who

1792
01:04:07,730 --> 01:04:09,809
comes to mind, who we interviewed. What's the

1793
01:04:09,809 --> 01:04:10,485
doc called?

1794
01:04:10,965 --> 01:04:12,885
This is Tap. I don't think it was

1795
01:04:12,885 --> 01:04:14,644
shown here. I'll tell you why. First of

1796
01:04:14,644 --> 01:04:16,724
all, it was produced for Italian television, although

1797
01:04:16,724 --> 01:04:18,744
everybody speaks in English and so forth.

1798
01:04:19,045 --> 01:04:19,785
The producers,

1799
01:04:20,724 --> 01:04:22,965
because we couldn't get to Simeon Glover, the

1800
01:04:22,965 --> 01:04:25,525
the executive producer, I should say, took the

1801
01:04:25,525 --> 01:04:27,510
film, went back to Italy. They cut it

1802
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:29,910
together, and they decided they wanted to to

1803
01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:32,390
have Savion Glover in the movie one way

1804
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:33,130
or the other.

1805
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:36,969
So what they did was, without our knowledge,

1806
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:39,565
they came back. They hired some of the

1807
01:04:39,565 --> 01:04:41,324
crew that we had worked with without our

1808
01:04:41,324 --> 01:04:43,105
knowledge. They didn't hire me back,

1809
01:04:43,405 --> 01:04:44,785
bring me back to New York.

1810
01:04:45,485 --> 01:04:45,985
They

1811
01:04:46,285 --> 01:04:48,305
went to see Savion Glover perform.

1812
01:04:49,005 --> 01:04:50,465
And with a hidden camera,

1813
01:04:50,844 --> 01:04:53,005
they shot his performance, pieces of his performance,

1814
01:04:53,005 --> 01:04:54,385
and they put it in the movie.

1815
01:04:54,819 --> 01:04:55,319
Nope.

1816
01:04:55,619 --> 01:04:56,599
And I go,

1817
01:04:56,980 --> 01:04:59,219
if you lost your mind, you can't do

1818
01:04:59,219 --> 01:04:59,719
that.

1819
01:05:00,179 --> 01:05:02,099
I was furious. We couldn't do anything about

1820
01:05:02,099 --> 01:05:04,500
it. They had done it, cut it into

1821
01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:06,659
the movie. It's in the copy that I

1822
01:05:06,659 --> 01:05:08,440
have, but we can't show it.

1823
01:05:08,835 --> 01:05:09,494
You know?

1824
01:05:09,795 --> 01:05:11,875
And and also the way they shot it

1825
01:05:11,875 --> 01:05:12,614
is crap.

1826
01:05:12,994 --> 01:05:15,635
You know, when we shot people performing, we,

1827
01:05:15,635 --> 01:05:17,474
you know, we did we have, you know,

1828
01:05:17,474 --> 01:05:19,954
good camerawork, you know, so forth. And it

1829
01:05:19,954 --> 01:05:23,074
really, really bothered me because I really I

1830
01:05:23,074 --> 01:05:23,974
really liked,

1831
01:05:24,659 --> 01:05:26,659
what the work that we did. The Italian

1832
01:05:26,659 --> 01:05:27,159
director

1833
01:05:27,460 --> 01:05:28,359
was upset

1834
01:05:28,819 --> 01:05:31,619
because he knew that they had done wrong,

1835
01:05:31,619 --> 01:05:33,559
but it was the executive producer who

1836
01:05:33,859 --> 01:05:36,339
intended it to that's that's it. And then

1837
01:05:36,339 --> 01:05:39,159
he gave his girlfriend producer title. Of course.

1838
01:05:39,827 --> 01:05:42,534
He He had done zip on the film.

1839
01:05:42,594 --> 01:05:44,914
I actually did nothing on the film. But,

1840
01:05:44,914 --> 01:05:46,614
Jay, you are amazing.

1841
01:05:47,155 --> 01:05:49,394
Well, thank you. I feel like all of

1842
01:05:49,394 --> 01:05:49,894
the

1843
01:05:51,074 --> 01:05:51,815
the timeline

1844
01:05:52,699 --> 01:05:55,900
of what you could be teaching is so

1845
01:05:55,900 --> 01:05:56,400
vast.

1846
01:05:56,779 --> 01:05:58,400
I really hope the school

1847
01:05:58,779 --> 01:06:01,019
gives you the opportunity to have it be

1848
01:06:01,099 --> 01:06:02,619
I don't know how it works over there

1849
01:06:02,619 --> 01:06:04,699
if it's just everything as a singular class.

1850
01:06:04,699 --> 01:06:06,764
But if you get the opportunity to pitch

1851
01:06:06,764 --> 01:06:08,284
it to them and say, give me a

1852
01:06:08,284 --> 01:06:10,545
whole semester or however long the school

1853
01:06:10,924 --> 01:06:13,804
year lasts Yeah. Take it, please, because I

1854
01:06:13,804 --> 01:06:16,444
think it's really important. I am interested in

1855
01:06:16,444 --> 01:06:19,005
in the the TED talk concept. I would

1856
01:06:19,005 --> 01:06:19,505
really,

1857
01:06:20,420 --> 01:06:21,780
the TED talks that I've seen are about

1858
01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:22,519
an hour.

1859
01:06:23,140 --> 01:06:25,239
So I would really have to

1860
01:06:26,980 --> 01:06:28,039
restructure it

1861
01:06:28,420 --> 01:06:30,739
and really have just sort of key highlights

1862
01:06:30,739 --> 01:06:31,239
because

1863
01:06:31,780 --> 01:06:33,605
there's just so much in our history. You

1864
01:06:33,605 --> 01:06:34,724
know? I mean, that's the thing. I'd love

1865
01:06:34,724 --> 01:06:35,844
for you to do a TED talk, but

1866
01:06:35,844 --> 01:06:37,045
what I really want is for you to

1867
01:06:37,045 --> 01:06:38,505
do an entire series.

1868
01:06:39,684 --> 01:06:40,724
Well, I don't okay. I don't know if

1869
01:06:40,724 --> 01:06:42,244
you can do that. You could do a

1870
01:06:42,244 --> 01:06:43,844
series on your own and film it and

1871
01:06:43,844 --> 01:06:46,085
then sell it to a PBS or a

1872
01:06:46,085 --> 01:06:47,844
Nat Geo or a Discovery or I don't

1873
01:06:47,844 --> 01:06:49,769
know all those channels, but, you know, something

1874
01:06:49,769 --> 01:06:51,390
like that. That'd be pretty badass.

1875
01:06:51,690 --> 01:06:53,450
Alright. You produce it, and I'll I'll I'll

1876
01:06:53,769 --> 01:06:55,610
Let's do it. Let's make it. Let's do

1877
01:06:55,610 --> 01:06:58,349
it. Okay. We'll do it. I've been collecting

1878
01:06:58,570 --> 01:07:00,110
bits of, you know,

1879
01:07:00,410 --> 01:07:02,349
information, historical information,

1880
01:07:03,795 --> 01:07:05,394
that this, you know, keeps coming. I've got

1881
01:07:05,394 --> 01:07:07,315
I've got a folder full of stuff that

1882
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I I can't

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put into the, lecture. Okay. We're gonna talk

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about this. K. Jay, thank you for being

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on the show. I really appreciate it. Thank

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you for having me. It's a pleasure. Thank

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you for listening, everybody.

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Bye.

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Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human Podcast

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01:07:26,219 --> 01:07:29,019
on iTunes, Spotify, Iheart, wherever you get your

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01:07:29,019 --> 01:07:30,719
podcasts. Thanks. Bye.