1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,859 Hey, humans. How's it going? 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,480 Susan Ruth here. Thanks for listening to another 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:12,980 episode 4 00:00:13,359 --> 00:00:14,820 of Hey, Human podcast. 5 00:00:16,135 --> 00:00:17,515 This is episode 420, 6 00:00:17,815 --> 00:00:20,774 and my guest is Ellie Khan. Ellie is 7 00:00:20,774 --> 00:00:23,994 a multi hyphenate human. She's a psychotherapist, 8 00:00:24,454 --> 00:00:27,195 producer, journalist, and historian, more 9 00:00:27,739 --> 00:00:30,960 specifically an oral historian, a collector of humanity's 10 00:00:31,260 --> 00:00:32,399 triumphs and sorrows. 11 00:00:33,020 --> 00:00:35,739 She's the founder of Living Legacies Productions and 12 00:00:35,739 --> 00:00:37,840 helps create meaningful books for people 13 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:39,200 and their families 14 00:00:39,820 --> 00:00:42,559 to preserve their history for generations to come. 15 00:00:42,585 --> 00:00:45,725 She also works with foundations to help collect 16 00:00:46,265 --> 00:00:48,844 stories of groups of people and 17 00:00:49,704 --> 00:00:51,465 and make sure that those stories are not 18 00:00:51,465 --> 00:00:54,684 forgotten. Really interesting woman, definitely a kindred spirit. 19 00:00:54,905 --> 00:00:55,405 And 20 00:00:56,030 --> 00:00:58,189 I so enjoyed talking with her. I met 21 00:00:58,189 --> 00:01:00,189 her by habit stance. She was sitting behind 22 00:01:00,189 --> 00:01:01,489 me at lunch one day, 23 00:01:01,789 --> 00:01:03,869 and we got to talking and found that 24 00:01:03,869 --> 00:01:04,530 we had 25 00:01:04,989 --> 00:01:07,409 storytelling in common and and history 26 00:01:08,045 --> 00:01:10,844 of humans in common. So I'm looking forward 27 00:01:10,844 --> 00:01:12,305 to you hearing this episode. 28 00:01:12,844 --> 00:01:15,325 General Stuff, Hey Human Podcast is now on 29 00:01:15,325 --> 00:01:17,504 YouTube under official Susan Ruth. 30 00:01:17,884 --> 00:01:19,584 I'm on Patreon at susanruthism. 31 00:01:20,364 --> 00:01:21,884 That's s u s a n r u 32 00:01:21,884 --> 00:01:23,265 t h I s m. 33 00:01:23,629 --> 00:01:24,849 And this Saturday, 34 00:01:25,310 --> 00:01:28,430 3 PM Pacific Standard Time, I'm gonna be 35 00:01:28,430 --> 00:01:29,649 hosting a Patreon, 36 00:01:30,430 --> 00:01:33,069 Zoom. So anybody can sign in and say 37 00:01:33,069 --> 00:01:35,310 hello, and we can chat. So if you 38 00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:36,930 haven't signed up for my Patreon, 39 00:01:37,469 --> 00:01:38,609 now is your chance. 40 00:01:39,045 --> 00:01:39,545 TikTok, 41 00:01:40,325 --> 00:01:41,545 can be found, susanruthism, 42 00:01:42,165 --> 00:01:44,424 having fun trying to figure that one out. 43 00:01:44,644 --> 00:01:45,625 Check out heyhumanpodcast.com 44 00:01:46,724 --> 00:01:48,484 for links and to learn more about my 45 00:01:48,484 --> 00:01:51,064 guests and my show. Check out susanruth.com 46 00:01:51,844 --> 00:01:54,104 to learn about me and my other artistic 47 00:01:54,165 --> 00:01:54,665 endeavors, 48 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:57,900 and follow Susan Ruthism and Hey Human Podcast 49 00:01:57,900 --> 00:01:58,879 on social media. 50 00:01:59,260 --> 00:02:01,579 You can find my music on Spotify, Apple 51 00:02:01,579 --> 00:02:03,840 Music, Amazon Music, wherever you get your music. 52 00:02:04,299 --> 00:02:06,640 Rate and review and subscribe 53 00:02:07,204 --> 00:02:09,384 to Hey Human podcast on iTunes 54 00:02:09,764 --> 00:02:11,544 or wherever you get your podcasts, 55 00:02:12,085 --> 00:02:14,805 again, now on YouTube as well. And thank 56 00:02:14,805 --> 00:02:15,625 you for listening. 57 00:02:16,004 --> 00:02:16,745 Be well. 58 00:02:17,205 --> 00:02:18,025 Be kind. 59 00:02:18,485 --> 00:02:20,425 Be love. Here we go. 60 00:02:21,050 --> 00:02:24,010 Aly Khan, welcome to Hey Human. Thank you. 61 00:02:24,010 --> 00:02:24,510 Hi. 62 00:02:24,969 --> 00:02:26,830 Hi. It's so nice to see you. 63 00:02:27,370 --> 00:02:28,750 Nice to see you too. 64 00:02:29,370 --> 00:02:31,930 Your work, your life's work now, I don't 65 00:02:31,930 --> 00:02:33,290 know if it we're gonna find out if 66 00:02:33,290 --> 00:02:35,310 that's been your work the whole time, but 67 00:02:35,724 --> 00:02:37,405 it was very intriguing to me. It's right 68 00:02:37,405 --> 00:02:39,245 up my alley. So I'm excited to have 69 00:02:39,245 --> 00:02:41,405 you on the show. Yeah. It's fun for 70 00:02:41,405 --> 00:02:43,485 me to talk about my work. So this 71 00:02:43,485 --> 00:02:45,485 is great. Yeah. Well, let's go back to 72 00:02:45,485 --> 00:02:47,104 the beginning. Where are you from? 73 00:02:47,405 --> 00:02:49,405 Where did you grow up? And how did 74 00:02:49,405 --> 00:02:51,264 your environment shape you? 75 00:02:52,219 --> 00:02:54,319 I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. 76 00:02:54,699 --> 00:02:55,599 I'm 75. 77 00:02:56,780 --> 00:02:58,800 And so it was a long time ago. 78 00:02:59,180 --> 00:02:59,680 I 79 00:03:00,780 --> 00:03:04,000 was really shaped by having wonderful grandparents 80 00:03:04,835 --> 00:03:07,254 and a father who was a storyteller. 81 00:03:08,514 --> 00:03:10,914 And I was very fortunate. My dad and 82 00:03:10,914 --> 00:03:13,175 I interviewed one of my grandfathers 83 00:03:14,034 --> 00:03:16,034 when I was in high school. I wish 84 00:03:16,034 --> 00:03:18,750 I remembered how that came about, but it's 85 00:03:18,750 --> 00:03:21,710 amazing to hear my grandfather's voice all these 86 00:03:21,710 --> 00:03:22,530 years later. 87 00:03:23,069 --> 00:03:25,950 And we interviewed him about his parents and 88 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:26,450 and 89 00:03:26,909 --> 00:03:29,310 what he knew about his family background and 90 00:03:29,310 --> 00:03:32,164 also his own life. So that was probably 91 00:03:32,164 --> 00:03:34,004 the beginning, but it didn't occur to me 92 00:03:34,004 --> 00:03:36,724 to become an oral historian then. I went 93 00:03:36,724 --> 00:03:37,224 to 94 00:03:37,764 --> 00:03:38,905 Malvern Elementary 95 00:03:39,284 --> 00:03:41,844 School, then he went to Woodbury Junior High 96 00:03:41,844 --> 00:03:44,084 School, then he went to Shaker Heights High 97 00:03:44,084 --> 00:03:44,584 School, 98 00:03:45,219 --> 00:03:47,400 then I went to Lake Forest College, 99 00:03:47,780 --> 00:03:49,159 and then I graduated 100 00:03:49,620 --> 00:03:50,120 from 101 00:03:50,419 --> 00:03:50,919 occupational 102 00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:54,659 therapy school at Ohio State. It came about 103 00:03:54,659 --> 00:03:57,560 because I volunteered with children with disabilities, 104 00:03:58,574 --> 00:03:59,555 in high school. 105 00:03:59,935 --> 00:04:01,694 And then I heard about the fact that 106 00:04:01,694 --> 00:04:03,534 you could work with those kind of children 107 00:04:03,534 --> 00:04:04,514 as an occupational 108 00:04:04,814 --> 00:04:05,314 therapist, 109 00:04:06,094 --> 00:04:08,094 and I didn't end up doing that. It 110 00:04:08,094 --> 00:04:10,415 was my goal. But when I the first 111 00:04:10,415 --> 00:04:12,034 job I got was in the psychiatric 112 00:04:12,335 --> 00:04:14,819 setting as an occupational therapist. 113 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,600 What was that like? It was interesting. It 114 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:17,920 was, 115 00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:22,000 truthfully, it was not really what I wanted 116 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,699 to do. And I 117 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,220 slipped into, 118 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:26,500 I mean, deliberately 119 00:04:27,345 --> 00:04:31,025 doing art therapy instead of occupational therapy at 120 00:04:31,025 --> 00:04:33,525 the hospital for 10 years where I worked, 121 00:04:34,064 --> 00:04:37,045 Woodview Calabasas Hospital. It's no longer 122 00:04:37,425 --> 00:04:39,345 around, but I was there for 10 years 123 00:04:39,345 --> 00:04:41,045 from 73 to 83. 124 00:04:42,370 --> 00:04:45,009 I've actually been intrigued by art therapy for 125 00:04:45,009 --> 00:04:46,930 a while now. I've been poking around and 126 00:04:46,930 --> 00:04:48,449 reading up on it. Can you talk a 127 00:04:48,449 --> 00:04:49,589 little bit about it? 128 00:04:50,050 --> 00:04:51,990 What I did at the hospital 129 00:04:52,290 --> 00:04:54,149 was offer patients 130 00:04:55,464 --> 00:04:57,485 a variety of art materials, 131 00:04:57,785 --> 00:05:00,444 whether that was clay or paints or colored 132 00:05:00,504 --> 00:05:01,004 pencils. 133 00:05:01,944 --> 00:05:04,285 And I would give them a prompt 134 00:05:05,225 --> 00:05:06,125 such as 135 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,180 in any way you want, 136 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,540 use the materials that call out to you 137 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,699 to show how you're feeling today 138 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:17,100 or to represent, 139 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,779 something, a memory of your childhood 140 00:05:22,134 --> 00:05:25,035 or something like that, which is interesting because 141 00:05:25,175 --> 00:05:27,415 those are the kind of questions I asked 142 00:05:27,415 --> 00:05:30,074 in my career now as an oral historian. 143 00:05:30,694 --> 00:05:33,654 The art therapy was really exciting because I 144 00:05:33,654 --> 00:05:34,555 also ran, 145 00:05:35,330 --> 00:05:38,290 just a verbal therapy group with patients. And 146 00:05:38,290 --> 00:05:41,110 sometimes people who had a hard time talking 147 00:05:42,210 --> 00:05:45,009 in the verbal therapy group, when they had 148 00:05:45,009 --> 00:05:45,830 some image 149 00:05:46,449 --> 00:05:48,629 as a vehicle or a bridge 150 00:05:49,014 --> 00:05:50,935 to talk about what was going on with 151 00:05:50,935 --> 00:05:52,475 them, it was easier. 152 00:05:52,855 --> 00:05:54,555 I was very impressed with, 153 00:05:55,254 --> 00:05:57,975 also the people I studied with who were 154 00:05:57,975 --> 00:05:58,714 art therapists. 155 00:05:59,254 --> 00:06:01,710 It was it was really wonderful. And I 156 00:06:01,710 --> 00:06:04,189 did it myself also, you know, scribbling and 157 00:06:04,189 --> 00:06:07,069 seeing what image came out. That was, till 158 00:06:07,069 --> 00:06:07,569 1983. 159 00:06:08,589 --> 00:06:09,410 In the movies, 160 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:13,875 we see art therapy being used generally, it's 161 00:06:13,954 --> 00:06:15,875 kids drawing pictures of, you know, their house 162 00:06:15,875 --> 00:06:17,735 is on fire, or daddy has big 163 00:06:18,115 --> 00:06:20,134 claws, or there's a monster in the closet. 164 00:06:20,194 --> 00:06:22,115 Does does that happen in real life? Do 165 00:06:22,115 --> 00:06:22,615 kids 166 00:06:23,555 --> 00:06:26,375 draw like that when there is trouble afoot? 167 00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:30,040 Well, I worked with adolescents and adults, not 168 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:30,540 children. 169 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,319 But, yes, there there were all sorts of 170 00:06:33,319 --> 00:06:36,199 images that, you know, one one time a 171 00:06:36,199 --> 00:06:38,680 a woman drew a picture of herself as 172 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:39,339 a tree 173 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:40,300 strangling 174 00:06:41,504 --> 00:06:42,084 her father 175 00:06:42,785 --> 00:06:45,764 because she was feeling so powerless 176 00:06:46,464 --> 00:06:48,884 with him, and this was how she represented 177 00:06:49,664 --> 00:06:50,164 herself 178 00:06:50,704 --> 00:06:51,925 feeling more powerful. 179 00:06:52,225 --> 00:06:52,725 So 180 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:55,439 those kind of images, yeah, it was those 181 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,839 you you never you never knew what was 182 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,100 gonna come out, whether it was kinda realistic 183 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:01,060 or abstract. 184 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,040 That's fascinating. I'm really, really intrigued by that 185 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:05,540 work. 186 00:07:06,144 --> 00:07:09,044 Tell me how you began the process of 187 00:07:09,185 --> 00:07:11,985 collecting stories of other people, which, of course, 188 00:07:11,985 --> 00:07:12,964 I love them. 189 00:07:14,384 --> 00:07:16,544 Yes. We know you do. Well, when I 190 00:07:16,544 --> 00:07:18,644 when I left the job in 83, 191 00:07:19,310 --> 00:07:21,470 I went to do you know about the 192 00:07:21,470 --> 00:07:23,330 book, What Color is Your Parachute? 193 00:07:24,110 --> 00:07:25,710 Have you heard of I have heard of 194 00:07:25,710 --> 00:07:28,430 it. That book, Richard Bowles, who wrote that 195 00:07:28,430 --> 00:07:30,930 book, was inspired by John Crystal, 196 00:07:31,865 --> 00:07:33,165 and he had 197 00:07:33,705 --> 00:07:35,944 a place in New York, the John Crystal 198 00:07:35,944 --> 00:07:38,185 Center, and I decided to go there for 199 00:07:38,185 --> 00:07:41,245 a week to a work life planning course. 200 00:07:41,705 --> 00:07:43,245 And it was the kind of 201 00:07:43,625 --> 00:07:44,125 experience 202 00:07:44,504 --> 00:07:46,925 where you did a lot of exercises 203 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:48,319 to discover 204 00:07:49,180 --> 00:07:51,980 who you were, what your skills were, what 205 00:07:51,980 --> 00:07:54,860 your interests were, what you know turned you 206 00:07:54,860 --> 00:07:55,360 on 207 00:07:55,819 --> 00:07:56,319 and 208 00:07:57,339 --> 00:07:59,339 it was a fluke but at the end 209 00:07:59,339 --> 00:08:00,160 of the course 210 00:08:00,925 --> 00:08:03,965 when they asked the question, if money was 211 00:08:03,965 --> 00:08:06,205 no object object, what would you like to 212 00:08:06,205 --> 00:08:06,944 be doing? 213 00:08:07,645 --> 00:08:09,824 I said, I'd love to be a photojournalist. 214 00:08:10,285 --> 00:08:11,725 Now I guess I should back up and 215 00:08:11,725 --> 00:08:14,064 say I had taken a a photography 216 00:08:15,230 --> 00:08:17,970 class at the local junior college, 217 00:08:18,589 --> 00:08:20,050 and we had to 218 00:08:21,629 --> 00:08:24,670 find someone or several people to do a 219 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:27,730 photo essay of their of them. 220 00:08:28,084 --> 00:08:28,904 So I 221 00:08:29,205 --> 00:08:31,145 I did 2 things. 1 was 222 00:08:31,524 --> 00:08:33,465 a woman having her baby. 223 00:08:33,924 --> 00:08:36,485 So I took pictures of her in her 224 00:08:36,485 --> 00:08:38,644 yoga class, and then I got to go 225 00:08:38,644 --> 00:08:39,384 to the delivery 226 00:08:40,245 --> 00:08:42,264 of her baby and take pictures 227 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,440 and make, you know, make made a kind 228 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,759 of a collage of the a photo essay 229 00:08:47,759 --> 00:08:50,399 for the class. The, the second person was 230 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:52,100 a man named Frank Perkins 231 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:55,620 who lived in the park near my house 232 00:08:55,759 --> 00:08:58,419 in Woodland my apartment in Woodland Hills. 233 00:08:58,934 --> 00:09:00,475 He was a homeless man, 234 00:09:01,014 --> 00:09:03,754 and he and I got to talking. 235 00:09:04,695 --> 00:09:06,695 He looked like he was at a country 236 00:09:06,695 --> 00:09:09,014 club. He was tan. He was smoking a 237 00:09:09,014 --> 00:09:10,795 pipe. He had white hair. 238 00:09:11,210 --> 00:09:14,169 It looked very relaxed, and I followed him 239 00:09:14,169 --> 00:09:16,750 through his day and took pictures of him 240 00:09:17,289 --> 00:09:18,429 for a photo essay. 241 00:09:19,049 --> 00:09:21,309 So in the John Crystal course, 242 00:09:21,769 --> 00:09:23,470 they said to me, okay. 243 00:09:23,850 --> 00:09:25,149 You wanna be a photojournalist. 244 00:09:25,769 --> 00:09:26,910 Here's your homework. 245 00:09:27,554 --> 00:09:30,115 Take those photos that you took of this 246 00:09:30,115 --> 00:09:32,375 homeless man to the local newspaper. 247 00:09:34,274 --> 00:09:36,855 And so when I got home, 248 00:09:37,315 --> 00:09:37,815 I 249 00:09:38,995 --> 00:09:40,535 got up my courage 250 00:09:41,794 --> 00:09:42,294 and 251 00:09:42,799 --> 00:09:45,600 went to the daily the daily news or 252 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,360 the Valley news. I forget what it was 253 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,620 called at that time in the San Fernando 254 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,059 Valley in Los Angeles 255 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:52,179 and 256 00:09:52,799 --> 00:09:54,820 showed them the pictures of Frank, 257 00:09:55,464 --> 00:09:57,945 and they said, you know, we would really 258 00:09:57,945 --> 00:10:00,684 like to use these. We'll send someone out 259 00:10:00,745 --> 00:10:03,725 to interview him. And very impulsively, 260 00:10:04,184 --> 00:10:04,924 I said, 261 00:10:05,304 --> 00:10:07,164 oh, could I interview him? 262 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,340 And that was the first article I ever 263 00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:11,139 wrote, 264 00:10:11,759 --> 00:10:14,659 which led to me becoming a freelance writer 265 00:10:14,799 --> 00:10:17,919 and journalist. And I've I still do some 266 00:10:17,919 --> 00:10:18,980 articles, but 267 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,434 I I was full time freelance, you you 268 00:10:22,434 --> 00:10:25,315 know, writer for the LA Times, for travel 269 00:10:25,315 --> 00:10:27,174 and leisure, for Parents Magazine. 270 00:10:28,115 --> 00:10:30,194 It was it's a wonderful career as you 271 00:10:30,194 --> 00:10:31,095 know, because 272 00:10:31,475 --> 00:10:34,274 I could meet someone like a a a 273 00:10:34,274 --> 00:10:35,495 guy who is a ventriloquist 274 00:10:36,034 --> 00:10:37,574 on the street in Hollywood, 275 00:10:38,159 --> 00:10:38,899 and I 276 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,759 could suggest that I write a story about 277 00:10:41,759 --> 00:10:44,399 him to The Herald Examiner. I wrote a 278 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:47,200 lot for the old Herald Examiner, and they 279 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,220 let me write an article about him. 280 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,860 And it was it was just fabulous. 281 00:10:52,495 --> 00:10:54,735 So I had a wonderful time as a 282 00:10:54,735 --> 00:10:57,375 as a journalist. And I was in the 283 00:10:57,454 --> 00:10:58,514 in New Hampshire 284 00:10:59,294 --> 00:11:00,194 in 1988 285 00:11:02,894 --> 00:11:03,875 with my mother. 286 00:11:04,820 --> 00:11:06,679 I heard about this woman 287 00:11:07,139 --> 00:11:10,899 who was very popular and famous in her 288 00:11:10,899 --> 00:11:11,399 neighborhood. 289 00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:15,059 She drove a yellow Mustang, and she always 290 00:11:15,059 --> 00:11:17,460 dressed in purple. They called her the purple 291 00:11:17,460 --> 00:11:17,960 lady. 292 00:11:18,294 --> 00:11:20,794 And I wrote an article about her 293 00:11:21,335 --> 00:11:21,835 for, 294 00:11:22,455 --> 00:11:25,735 a magazine that was for older people, 50 295 00:11:25,735 --> 00:11:27,434 plus, I think it was called. 296 00:11:28,054 --> 00:11:28,875 And somehow, 297 00:11:30,054 --> 00:11:32,294 a friend said to me after she read 298 00:11:32,294 --> 00:11:32,794 that, 299 00:11:33,730 --> 00:11:36,370 do you know about the field of oral 300 00:11:36,370 --> 00:11:36,870 history? 301 00:11:37,490 --> 00:11:40,210 And I did not know anything about oral 302 00:11:40,210 --> 00:11:40,710 histories. 303 00:11:41,330 --> 00:11:44,929 But an oral history is something from ancient 304 00:11:44,929 --> 00:11:47,830 days when the elder of the tribe would 305 00:11:48,195 --> 00:11:49,335 tell a story 306 00:11:50,595 --> 00:11:53,575 about the tribe or about life or whatever. 307 00:11:54,035 --> 00:11:55,975 So I found a mentor 308 00:11:56,355 --> 00:11:59,235 named Gary Shumway who taught at Cal State 309 00:11:59,235 --> 00:12:02,035 Fullerton where they have an oral history program, 310 00:12:02,035 --> 00:12:03,654 and he became my mentor. 311 00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:05,940 And in 1988, 312 00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:10,960 I started doing oral histories, and that's been 313 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,000 my career for over 35 years. I still 314 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,860 do some freelance writing, but 315 00:12:16,394 --> 00:12:16,894 I 316 00:12:17,274 --> 00:12:20,315 practiced first on my parents. I interviewed both 317 00:12:20,315 --> 00:12:20,975 of them, 318 00:12:21,754 --> 00:12:24,235 and then I created a book from the 319 00:12:24,235 --> 00:12:26,634 interviews I did with them. And then I 320 00:12:26,634 --> 00:12:27,695 just started 321 00:12:27,995 --> 00:12:29,774 getting hired. In 1991, 322 00:12:31,149 --> 00:12:33,970 I was hired by the Jewish Historical Society 323 00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:36,289 to to create an oral history 324 00:12:36,990 --> 00:12:39,870 of Boyle Heights and East Los Angeles, which 325 00:12:39,870 --> 00:12:43,570 had been a very large Eastern European Jewish 326 00:12:43,629 --> 00:12:44,129 community 327 00:12:45,415 --> 00:12:47,674 between World War 1 and World War 2. 328 00:12:48,215 --> 00:12:50,315 And I taught volunteers 329 00:12:50,774 --> 00:12:53,415 to interview people who had lived in that 330 00:12:53,415 --> 00:12:53,915 community. 331 00:12:54,535 --> 00:12:55,975 You know, how do how do you do 332 00:12:55,975 --> 00:12:57,735 interviews? You know, how do you listen to 333 00:12:57,735 --> 00:13:00,029 people? How do you ask questions? And so 334 00:13:00,110 --> 00:13:01,710 so that was part of what I was 335 00:13:01,710 --> 00:13:02,930 teaching these volunteers. 336 00:13:03,550 --> 00:13:05,649 From that, I produced a documentary 337 00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:08,190 film called Meet Me at Brooklyn and So 338 00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:08,690 to 339 00:13:09,389 --> 00:13:13,934 that involved me interviewing about 50 people, including 340 00:13:13,934 --> 00:13:14,434 Xavier 341 00:13:14,735 --> 00:13:17,475 Slawski, who grew up in Boyle Heights and 342 00:13:17,615 --> 00:13:20,274 just wonderful, interesting stories 343 00:13:21,375 --> 00:13:24,254 and about getting to America and finding this 344 00:13:24,254 --> 00:13:26,975 community in Los Angeles where there were pickle 345 00:13:26,975 --> 00:13:28,595 barrels on the street and 346 00:13:29,029 --> 00:13:30,809 signs in in Yiddish 347 00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:32,809 and lots of political 348 00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:34,090 arguments, 349 00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:36,490 other communists and Trotskyites 350 00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:37,850 and whatever. 351 00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:39,370 And 352 00:13:39,830 --> 00:13:40,970 then I taught 353 00:13:41,785 --> 00:13:45,004 students from that. I decided to teach students 354 00:13:45,144 --> 00:13:46,605 to interview their grandparents, 355 00:13:47,465 --> 00:13:50,424 and that was at Palms Middle School. And, 356 00:13:50,825 --> 00:13:51,565 one boy 357 00:13:52,024 --> 00:13:53,245 called his grandmother. 358 00:13:53,785 --> 00:13:55,884 It was actually to interview their grandparents 359 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,960 or their parents if there weren't grandparents. So 360 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,059 he interviewed his grandmother in Korea 361 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:02,879 over the phone. And, 362 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:04,019 I had 363 00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:07,620 also been contacted by Spielberg's 364 00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:09,379 Shoah Foundation 365 00:14:10,134 --> 00:14:12,634 to do interviews with Holocaust survivors 366 00:14:13,014 --> 00:14:15,254 since they knew I was already an oral 367 00:14:15,254 --> 00:14:15,754 historian. 368 00:14:16,615 --> 00:14:17,095 I, 369 00:14:18,454 --> 00:14:20,375 didn't really need to be trained to do 370 00:14:20,375 --> 00:14:22,634 it, but they had a fabulous training, 371 00:14:23,250 --> 00:14:25,809 and I interviewed a number of people who 372 00:14:25,809 --> 00:14:29,029 were already my clients. It was very interesting. 373 00:14:29,169 --> 00:14:31,830 They were all, of course, very moving interviews 374 00:14:31,889 --> 00:14:33,990 because many of the people's parents 375 00:14:34,370 --> 00:14:36,929 and and families had all been killed during 376 00:14:36,929 --> 00:14:38,629 the Holocaust by the Nazis 377 00:14:38,985 --> 00:14:39,964 and Hitler. 378 00:14:41,384 --> 00:14:43,065 And so their stories were, 379 00:14:44,904 --> 00:14:47,164 really important to be shared. 380 00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:49,485 And a lot of the ones 381 00:14:50,184 --> 00:14:51,245 who were my clients, 382 00:14:52,129 --> 00:14:55,190 they were hesitant to tell their children about 383 00:14:55,330 --> 00:14:58,049 their experiences because they didn't wanna upset their 384 00:14:58,049 --> 00:15:00,789 kids. Their kids didn't wanna ask their parents 385 00:15:01,169 --> 00:15:03,649 about their experiences because they didn't wanna upset 386 00:15:03,649 --> 00:15:05,715 their parents. So I ended up 387 00:15:06,195 --> 00:15:08,455 over the years, being kind of a bridge 388 00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:11,555 between them. And and most of my oral 389 00:15:11,555 --> 00:15:14,134 history interviews are end up being books. 390 00:15:14,595 --> 00:15:17,634 So I I have it transcribed by people 391 00:15:17,634 --> 00:15:20,159 and then I edit that and organize it 392 00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:23,279 into a book with photos from the family 393 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:24,019 and documents. 394 00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:27,360 And one of my clients had a party 395 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,559 with his grandchildren and nieces and nephews. He 396 00:15:30,559 --> 00:15:31,860 autographed the books 397 00:15:32,394 --> 00:15:34,235 and gave one to each of them. So, 398 00:15:34,235 --> 00:15:36,575 I mean, you can imagine what a wonderful 399 00:15:36,634 --> 00:15:38,714 career it is. It's like, I meet the 400 00:15:38,714 --> 00:15:39,615 most fascinating 401 00:15:39,995 --> 00:15:43,034 people, and I feel good about the fact 402 00:15:43,034 --> 00:15:45,754 that so many people tell me this is 403 00:15:45,754 --> 00:15:46,480 not what I feel good about. I feel 404 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:46,617 very frustrated at how many people say we 405 00:15:46,617 --> 00:15:47,454 kept meaning to 406 00:15:48,210 --> 00:15:48,710 frustrated 407 00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:50,103 at how many people say we kept meaning 408 00:15:50,103 --> 00:15:51,170 to interview my parents or my grandparents, and 409 00:15:51,170 --> 00:15:53,009 we were just so busy. We just never 410 00:15:53,009 --> 00:15:53,809 got around to 411 00:15:54,610 --> 00:15:56,290 or we gave my grandmother a book to 412 00:15:56,290 --> 00:15:58,690 fill in, and she never got around to 413 00:15:58,690 --> 00:15:59,190 it. 414 00:16:03,774 --> 00:16:06,414 And there's just I I might not have 415 00:16:06,414 --> 00:16:08,914 interviewed my own parents had I not started 416 00:16:09,375 --> 00:16:09,875 doing 417 00:16:10,335 --> 00:16:13,054 this work. That makes me very sad when 418 00:16:13,054 --> 00:16:14,595 I hear that. I've 419 00:16:14,975 --> 00:16:17,774 given a gift for to many friends as 420 00:16:17,774 --> 00:16:18,914 a birthday present, 421 00:16:19,309 --> 00:16:21,730 to interview them or their or their parents. 422 00:16:22,110 --> 00:16:24,669 And it's, you know, it's a joy. And 423 00:16:24,669 --> 00:16:28,049 Zoom has changed things, of course. I have 424 00:16:28,429 --> 00:16:31,709 clients in other states. I have clients in 425 00:16:31,709 --> 00:16:33,330 other countries. And 426 00:16:33,789 --> 00:16:36,175 it's like, you can do it on Zoom. 427 00:16:37,195 --> 00:16:39,514 And then I record it so that so 428 00:16:39,514 --> 00:16:42,154 that the family has the recording. And sometimes 429 00:16:42,154 --> 00:16:44,415 that's all they want, and sometimes they want 430 00:16:44,554 --> 00:16:46,394 to have a book made or, you know, 431 00:16:46,394 --> 00:16:49,490 have edited videos over the years. And I 432 00:16:49,490 --> 00:16:52,309 did 2 other oral histories that were documentaries 433 00:16:53,089 --> 00:16:53,829 for Paramount 434 00:16:54,129 --> 00:16:55,350 Studios. I interviewed 435 00:16:56,129 --> 00:16:57,669 Cecil b DeMille's granddaughter, 436 00:16:58,049 --> 00:16:58,549 Cece 437 00:16:59,009 --> 00:16:59,990 DeMille Presley, 438 00:17:00,370 --> 00:17:01,190 about him. 439 00:17:01,894 --> 00:17:04,055 And, you know, she got to go to 440 00:17:04,055 --> 00:17:07,275 Egypt when he was producing the 10 Commandments. 441 00:17:07,815 --> 00:17:09,275 Then I interviewed a man 442 00:17:09,815 --> 00:17:12,134 at who was at Paramount for many years, 443 00:17:12,134 --> 00:17:13,595 and he wandered around 444 00:17:14,214 --> 00:17:15,355 the the lot, 445 00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:18,589 stopping people to tell them stories about the 446 00:17:18,589 --> 00:17:20,990 actors who'd come through Paramount. His name was 447 00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:21,890 AC Lyle. 448 00:17:22,430 --> 00:17:24,529 And so those oral histories 449 00:17:24,990 --> 00:17:28,509 were edited into into into videos. So it's 450 00:17:28,509 --> 00:17:29,650 a mixture, but 451 00:17:30,144 --> 00:17:32,865 mostly, I make books, hundreds, you know, hundreds 452 00:17:32,865 --> 00:17:35,605 of clients I've have made the books for. 453 00:17:35,984 --> 00:17:38,305 And it's really fun to hand them to 454 00:17:38,305 --> 00:17:40,164 them, you know, when they're done. 455 00:17:40,704 --> 00:17:43,025 But mostly, you know, I get the gift 456 00:17:43,025 --> 00:17:45,730 of meeting all of these wonderful people. 457 00:17:46,190 --> 00:17:46,690 Absolutely. 458 00:17:47,069 --> 00:17:49,630 And, I mean, I've interviewed my parents for 459 00:17:49,630 --> 00:17:51,409 this show twice now. 460 00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:53,970 Oh, wonderful. You know, single singularly 461 00:17:54,509 --> 00:17:55,755 each, twice. 462 00:17:56,234 --> 00:17:58,954 My grandparents are long deceased, which is unfortunate, 463 00:17:58,954 --> 00:18:00,575 and they died when I was quite young. 464 00:18:00,954 --> 00:18:02,255 But you discover, 465 00:18:02,634 --> 00:18:04,255 and I I mean the royal you, 466 00:18:04,634 --> 00:18:05,375 so much 467 00:18:05,914 --> 00:18:07,454 about your parents 468 00:18:08,269 --> 00:18:09,869 when you do that, when you when you 469 00:18:09,869 --> 00:18:10,849 interview them because 470 00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:13,730 they have a world unto themselves 471 00:18:14,429 --> 00:18:17,569 that they'll never show if you don't ask. 472 00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:18,130 And 473 00:18:18,509 --> 00:18:20,669 it really is. I mean, the stories they 474 00:18:20,669 --> 00:18:21,490 told were 475 00:18:22,195 --> 00:18:23,255 so wild. 476 00:18:24,275 --> 00:18:25,875 I bet. We don't like to see our 477 00:18:25,875 --> 00:18:28,295 parents as human beings, I guess, and 478 00:18:28,595 --> 00:18:30,755 at some point that when you cross that 479 00:18:31,075 --> 00:18:33,154 when you cross over to understand that they 480 00:18:33,154 --> 00:18:34,134 are their own 481 00:18:34,820 --> 00:18:36,279 autonomous people that 482 00:18:36,820 --> 00:18:37,799 they have these 483 00:18:38,180 --> 00:18:39,240 lush lives. 484 00:18:39,779 --> 00:18:42,099 Yeah. I I'm so glad you did interview 485 00:18:42,099 --> 00:18:42,900 them. It's, 486 00:18:43,299 --> 00:18:45,240 it's very powerful experience. 487 00:18:45,539 --> 00:18:47,640 You know, in terms of my interviews 488 00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:49,960 with people who've had 489 00:18:50,325 --> 00:18:51,544 traumatic experiences, 490 00:18:51,845 --> 00:18:54,184 I think being a licensed psychotherapist 491 00:18:54,644 --> 00:18:55,944 helps helps me 492 00:18:56,804 --> 00:18:58,345 be very, very comfortable 493 00:18:58,644 --> 00:19:01,204 if they are moved to tears or they 494 00:19:01,204 --> 00:19:03,544 can't talk, you know, because of 495 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:07,309 something that and I'm you know, I say, 496 00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:10,090 are you sure you wanna talk about this 497 00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:12,910 or it's okay if you wanna stop? And 498 00:19:13,529 --> 00:19:15,470 one time, a family had me 499 00:19:15,850 --> 00:19:17,869 interview everyone in the family 500 00:19:18,514 --> 00:19:21,554 because their sister was dying of cancer, and 501 00:19:21,554 --> 00:19:22,855 she was at the 502 00:19:23,315 --> 00:19:25,174 interview. So I interviewed her, 503 00:19:26,034 --> 00:19:28,755 and I interviewed her sons about her, and 504 00:19:28,755 --> 00:19:31,095 I interviewed her sisters and her mother, 505 00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:36,950 all telling favorite stories about this woman who 506 00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:38,649 was dying of cancer. 507 00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:40,329 And then I 508 00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:44,009 sat her and her mother and sisters down 509 00:19:44,744 --> 00:19:48,105 because they said they really hadn't talked about 510 00:19:48,105 --> 00:19:50,585 how they were feeling about the fact that 511 00:19:50,585 --> 00:19:52,684 she was gonna die soon. And 512 00:19:53,065 --> 00:19:55,805 I invited them to talk about it, and 513 00:19:56,105 --> 00:19:58,329 I was very moved. I, you know, I 514 00:19:58,329 --> 00:20:01,470 have to kinda steady myself when people are 515 00:20:01,929 --> 00:20:05,849 talking about something very traumatic or moving. It's 516 00:20:05,849 --> 00:20:07,789 like I have to detach a bit, 517 00:20:08,169 --> 00:20:08,909 but still 518 00:20:09,625 --> 00:20:12,345 have compassion. Yeah. Things like that that are 519 00:20:12,345 --> 00:20:14,284 very powerful for me. 520 00:20:14,984 --> 00:20:17,404 I have recordings. So every time I visited 521 00:20:17,464 --> 00:20:18,204 my father, 522 00:20:18,984 --> 00:20:20,125 he was 523 00:20:20,585 --> 00:20:21,085 reminiscing. 524 00:20:21,625 --> 00:20:23,944 So I've got hours and hours and hours 525 00:20:23,944 --> 00:20:25,085 of of 526 00:20:25,679 --> 00:20:28,879 interviewing him or just listening, recording him. You 527 00:20:28,879 --> 00:20:29,379 know? 528 00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:32,639 So he influenced me a lot in terms 529 00:20:32,639 --> 00:20:33,139 of 530 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,720 him. Both my parents knew about their family 531 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:37,220 background, 532 00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:40,159 and and I, again, I knew all my 533 00:20:40,159 --> 00:20:40,659 grandparents. 534 00:20:41,724 --> 00:20:44,284 1 2 of my grandparents when they came 535 00:20:44,284 --> 00:20:46,544 from Hungary moved to 536 00:20:47,244 --> 00:20:48,304 Omaha, Nebraska 537 00:20:48,605 --> 00:20:49,904 and opened a saloon, 538 00:20:50,845 --> 00:20:54,065 which apparently wasn't uncommon for Jewish people, 539 00:20:54,444 --> 00:20:55,345 Jewish immigrants. 540 00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:59,200 Apparently. And this is, you know, not a 541 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,299 nice thing, but my grandmother 542 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,220 was afraid of the Indians 543 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,880 that were coming into the saloon. I mean, 544 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,279 you know, coming from Hungary, she had never 545 00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:09,779 experienced. 546 00:21:10,474 --> 00:21:13,835 You're talking about indigenous peoples. Right? Indigenous people 547 00:21:13,835 --> 00:21:15,455 in in Omaha, Nebraska. 548 00:21:15,914 --> 00:21:18,015 Yes. Formerly called Indians 549 00:21:18,555 --> 00:21:18,955 and, 550 00:21:19,434 --> 00:21:22,255 now called Native Americans. But in the story 551 00:21:22,509 --> 00:21:24,269 my dad told, it was, you know, he 552 00:21:24,269 --> 00:21:26,849 said Indians. And so they moved to Cleveland 553 00:21:27,309 --> 00:21:30,029 where there was family. And his joke was 554 00:21:30,029 --> 00:21:32,990 where there was a baseball team formerly known 555 00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:34,289 as the Cleveland Indians. 556 00:21:35,150 --> 00:21:37,410 An irony not last, of course. Yes. 557 00:21:38,054 --> 00:21:39,514 How has your 558 00:21:40,855 --> 00:21:42,794 taking in of all these stories 559 00:21:43,974 --> 00:21:44,954 from a 560 00:21:45,335 --> 00:21:46,315 pretty decent 561 00:21:46,615 --> 00:21:47,514 swath of humanity, 562 00:21:47,974 --> 00:21:50,534 how has taking in all these stories shaped 563 00:21:50,534 --> 00:21:51,434 you personally? 564 00:21:52,339 --> 00:21:53,559 Changed you even? 565 00:21:54,259 --> 00:21:55,480 I think that 566 00:21:56,019 --> 00:21:57,000 I've become 567 00:21:58,099 --> 00:21:58,920 even more 568 00:21:59,859 --> 00:22:01,240 interested in hearing 569 00:22:01,859 --> 00:22:04,279 people share things about themselves. 570 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:06,279 And I find myself 571 00:22:08,085 --> 00:22:11,765 meeting people wherever I go and talking to 572 00:22:11,765 --> 00:22:12,265 them. 573 00:22:12,964 --> 00:22:14,884 My ex husband said he had to stop 574 00:22:14,884 --> 00:22:16,884 me from picking up old people in the 575 00:22:16,884 --> 00:22:19,365 park, which, of course, now I am one 576 00:22:19,365 --> 00:22:21,759 of those. I think it's I've it's given 577 00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:23,779 me I've it's taught me patience, 578 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:26,720 you know, to be able to wait and 579 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:27,539 just listen. 580 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:28,740 And 581 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,125 I think that I'm so awed by how 582 00:22:33,125 --> 00:22:36,024 people have gotten through things in their lives. 583 00:22:36,085 --> 00:22:38,424 And and that makes me very grateful 584 00:22:39,284 --> 00:22:39,784 for 585 00:22:41,684 --> 00:22:44,325 my life and and, you know, the things 586 00:22:44,325 --> 00:22:46,565 that I have in my in my life 587 00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:47,304 that are 588 00:22:48,089 --> 00:22:48,589 easy. 589 00:22:49,130 --> 00:22:50,349 I I volunteered 590 00:22:50,809 --> 00:22:51,869 for a program, 591 00:22:53,049 --> 00:22:53,869 in Brooklyn, 592 00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:57,710 the sharing network. It's a program for 593 00:22:58,009 --> 00:22:59,069 African American 594 00:22:59,369 --> 00:23:01,390 people in a housing development 595 00:23:02,329 --> 00:23:02,829 in 596 00:23:03,375 --> 00:23:03,875 Brooklyn, 597 00:23:04,575 --> 00:23:06,275 and I led reminiscence 598 00:23:06,654 --> 00:23:09,075 groups with them where I asked 599 00:23:09,535 --> 00:23:12,015 5 or 6 people to talk about their 600 00:23:12,015 --> 00:23:12,994 family background. 601 00:23:13,615 --> 00:23:14,115 And 602 00:23:15,549 --> 00:23:17,490 there's nothing like hearing about 603 00:23:18,109 --> 00:23:19,650 people having to 604 00:23:20,029 --> 00:23:20,849 warn their 605 00:23:22,029 --> 00:23:23,009 African American 606 00:23:23,390 --> 00:23:23,890 sons 607 00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:25,089 to be careful 608 00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:28,349 walking down the street or being with their 609 00:23:28,349 --> 00:23:28,849 friends 610 00:23:29,244 --> 00:23:31,644 to make me realize how I've never had 611 00:23:31,644 --> 00:23:34,204 to teach my son that at all. I've 612 00:23:34,204 --> 00:23:36,605 never had to be afraid of that. Their 613 00:23:36,605 --> 00:23:38,065 stories were very different 614 00:23:38,605 --> 00:23:40,784 than some of the other people I interview 615 00:23:40,845 --> 00:23:43,639 in terms of their recipes and their, you 616 00:23:43,639 --> 00:23:44,779 know, their grandparents, 617 00:23:45,159 --> 00:23:47,399 and it was just a joy. It's a 618 00:23:47,399 --> 00:23:50,539 wonderful program because they still have lots of 619 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,059 classes that are done all on Zoom. 620 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,500 And but the people are on their telephones 621 00:23:58,095 --> 00:23:59,554 talking from their apartments 622 00:23:59,855 --> 00:24:01,075 in this development. 623 00:24:01,775 --> 00:24:03,694 It was a privilege to spend about 8 624 00:24:03,694 --> 00:24:06,095 months, you know, getting to know people who 625 00:24:06,095 --> 00:24:08,974 had such different lives than I have. It's 626 00:24:08,974 --> 00:24:12,559 so important in my opinion to hear the 627 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:14,420 stories of those who are 628 00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:17,920 having different experiences than ourselves. It makes the 629 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,740 world smaller. 630 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:22,320 It it develops empathy, which, my god, do 631 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,779 we need that more than ever. 632 00:24:24,855 --> 00:24:27,335 Yeah. It's really it's an honor too. It's 633 00:24:27,335 --> 00:24:30,315 an honor to bear witness to the stories 634 00:24:30,454 --> 00:24:31,515 that people have. 635 00:24:32,214 --> 00:24:34,295 I am not always as good at not 636 00:24:34,295 --> 00:24:36,694 crying. I have definitely gotten emotional on a 637 00:24:36,694 --> 00:24:39,355 few interviews over the last 8 years. 638 00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:41,340 But for the most part, I'm able to 639 00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:42,859 hold it together, but every once in a 640 00:24:42,859 --> 00:24:43,359 while, 641 00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:47,099 I get pretty choked up. Yeah. It's tough. 642 00:24:47,099 --> 00:24:49,500 But you're right. Being it is an honor. 643 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:50,000 Absolutely. 644 00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:51,440 It's a privilege. 645 00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:54,400 I worry that there are so many stories 646 00:24:55,375 --> 00:24:56,115 that will 647 00:24:56,734 --> 00:24:59,134 we can't get them all, obviously, but that 648 00:24:59,134 --> 00:25:00,595 there's a whole generation 649 00:25:01,214 --> 00:25:03,214 that keeps leaving and then the next that 650 00:25:03,214 --> 00:25:04,034 keep leaving, 651 00:25:04,734 --> 00:25:05,234 and 652 00:25:05,615 --> 00:25:06,835 they take with them 653 00:25:07,375 --> 00:25:08,194 such richness. 654 00:25:08,894 --> 00:25:09,394 Yeah. 655 00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:11,170 And then people forget. 656 00:25:12,349 --> 00:25:14,670 Yeah. That's right. That was one of the 657 00:25:14,670 --> 00:25:16,109 reasons that I taught, 658 00:25:16,509 --> 00:25:19,150 the kids to interview their grandparents because that 659 00:25:19,150 --> 00:25:20,609 really could be part of 660 00:25:20,990 --> 00:25:21,490 every 661 00:25:21,805 --> 00:25:22,305 school, 662 00:25:22,845 --> 00:25:24,865 you know, to to have kids 663 00:25:25,484 --> 00:25:27,325 in our it's, you know, it's an also, 664 00:25:27,325 --> 00:25:29,404 how often do kids spend a couple hours 665 00:25:29,404 --> 00:25:31,805 talking to their grandparents? But you're right. There's 666 00:25:31,805 --> 00:25:32,464 so many 667 00:25:33,805 --> 00:25:36,045 people who aren't getting a chance to, you 668 00:25:36,045 --> 00:25:36,545 know, 669 00:25:37,090 --> 00:25:37,910 to reminisce 670 00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:41,170 and share and know that their stories will 671 00:25:41,170 --> 00:25:43,410 live on. You know? Yeah. I think it's 672 00:25:43,410 --> 00:25:45,430 very gratifying for a lot of people. 673 00:25:45,809 --> 00:25:47,190 Yeah. A little bit of immortality. 674 00:25:48,130 --> 00:25:50,950 I was hired by a man named Elliot 675 00:25:51,845 --> 00:25:54,005 Sturman. He found out that he had a 676 00:25:54,005 --> 00:25:56,345 brain tumor and he was in his sixties, 677 00:25:56,884 --> 00:25:59,684 and he hired me to sit behind him 678 00:25:59,684 --> 00:26:02,424 while he lay on his one of his 679 00:26:02,724 --> 00:26:05,285 adult no longer living at home, but their 680 00:26:05,285 --> 00:26:06,424 son his son's 681 00:26:06,990 --> 00:26:07,490 bed 682 00:26:07,789 --> 00:26:09,650 reading his children's favorite 683 00:26:10,269 --> 00:26:11,250 childhood books, 684 00:26:11,630 --> 00:26:14,269 Cat in the Hat, Doctor Seuss, Calvin and 685 00:26:14,269 --> 00:26:17,230 Hobbes. And while he read, he was pointing 686 00:26:17,230 --> 00:26:19,470 out things in the book just like you 687 00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:21,815 would read to a child, but he was 688 00:26:21,815 --> 00:26:23,894 better than I had ever been reading to 689 00:26:23,894 --> 00:26:26,775 my son. And what he said was that 690 00:26:26,775 --> 00:26:28,475 he will never know his grandchildren, 691 00:26:29,095 --> 00:26:31,015 and he wanted to be more than just 692 00:26:31,015 --> 00:26:33,730 a name to them or a picture on 693 00:26:33,730 --> 00:26:34,309 the wall. 694 00:26:34,690 --> 00:26:36,929 So this is this is what he left, 695 00:26:36,929 --> 00:26:38,470 you know, all of these 696 00:26:38,849 --> 00:26:40,549 recordings of him reading 697 00:26:40,849 --> 00:26:43,750 all these books, you know, for his kids 698 00:26:44,130 --> 00:26:45,109 to pass on 699 00:26:45,650 --> 00:26:46,150 someday. 700 00:26:46,954 --> 00:26:49,275 That's beautiful. What a great it's a great 701 00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:49,775 idea. 702 00:26:50,154 --> 00:26:52,474 Yeah. It was fabulous. And and that that 703 00:26:52,474 --> 00:26:54,894 one, I had a hard time not crying. 704 00:26:55,515 --> 00:26:57,355 Yeah. He was talking about the fact that 705 00:26:57,355 --> 00:26:59,515 he would never know his grandchildren, and he 706 00:26:59,515 --> 00:27:00,894 died 6 months later. 707 00:27:01,890 --> 00:27:04,309 Yeah. I've interviewed a couple people who 708 00:27:04,849 --> 00:27:06,230 are either dying 709 00:27:06,529 --> 00:27:08,710 and or at the very end of life. 710 00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:09,910 And 711 00:27:10,529 --> 00:27:11,509 talk about humbling. 712 00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:13,109 Yeah. Yeah. 713 00:27:13,825 --> 00:27:16,785 Yeah. That's right. I, I interviewed a woman 714 00:27:16,785 --> 00:27:18,164 who was in hospice, 715 00:27:18,545 --> 00:27:21,105 and I couldn't go in because she was 716 00:27:21,105 --> 00:27:23,525 so she was being kept in isolation, 717 00:27:24,144 --> 00:27:26,484 and we just talked on the phone. 718 00:27:27,105 --> 00:27:27,265 And 719 00:27:27,970 --> 00:27:28,470 yeah, 720 00:27:29,009 --> 00:27:32,789 I'm still visiting my 90 something year old 721 00:27:33,090 --> 00:27:35,910 clients who've become friends. It's just 722 00:27:37,410 --> 00:27:38,630 yeah. It's a privilege 723 00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:39,670 and fun. 724 00:27:40,325 --> 00:27:41,924 And you can't capture all the stories at 725 00:27:41,924 --> 00:27:43,865 once. Like I said, I interviewed my parents 726 00:27:44,005 --> 00:27:47,045 twice now each, and they told different stories. 727 00:27:47,045 --> 00:27:49,065 I mean, tons of stories. 728 00:27:49,525 --> 00:27:50,904 So I got to hear 729 00:27:51,845 --> 00:27:52,585 all these 730 00:27:53,570 --> 00:27:54,070 different 731 00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:56,630 things that make them 732 00:27:58,289 --> 00:27:58,769 more, 733 00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:01,890 more human. More human is a I don't 734 00:28:01,890 --> 00:28:03,730 know. It's hard to explain how I feel 735 00:28:03,730 --> 00:28:05,890 about that, but you know, because you of 736 00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:08,775 your work. But for those listening, I I 737 00:28:08,775 --> 00:28:10,634 could not recommend this more 738 00:28:11,174 --> 00:28:13,434 to interview the people around you 739 00:28:13,974 --> 00:28:14,474 because 740 00:28:15,015 --> 00:28:16,315 it's fascinating. 741 00:28:18,214 --> 00:28:19,355 Yeah. It is. 742 00:28:19,654 --> 00:28:21,194 What are you working on right now? 743 00:28:22,109 --> 00:28:24,750 Well, last year, I interviewed someone for 18 744 00:28:24,750 --> 00:28:26,690 hours. He's in New Jersey, 745 00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:29,789 and it was by Zoom. And I've, been 746 00:28:29,789 --> 00:28:32,130 edit I edited it into a manuscript, 747 00:28:32,430 --> 00:28:35,214 which he's now reading through. Then I have 748 00:28:35,214 --> 00:28:38,255 2 other people whose I interviewed for about 749 00:28:38,255 --> 00:28:40,514 9 or 10 hours each, so I'm editing 750 00:28:40,974 --> 00:28:42,115 those right now. 751 00:28:42,494 --> 00:28:45,234 I have a couple of clients in Israel 752 00:28:45,855 --> 00:28:46,355 who 753 00:28:46,734 --> 00:28:49,554 it's their project's been put on hold 754 00:28:49,859 --> 00:28:52,200 because their kids are in the army. And 755 00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:54,839 also I was hired by the world's oldest 756 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:56,440 women's rowing club 757 00:28:56,740 --> 00:28:58,519 in Mission Bay, San Diego. 758 00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:00,500 And I got to go down there and 759 00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:01,000 interview 760 00:29:01,795 --> 00:29:03,734 people, and I got to go out rowing. 761 00:29:03,795 --> 00:29:06,115 And so now I'm doing still doing some 762 00:29:06,115 --> 00:29:07,894 Zoom interviews for that, 763 00:29:08,515 --> 00:29:11,555 organization, which is their their stories about their 764 00:29:11,555 --> 00:29:13,974 grandmother starting this rowing club 765 00:29:14,380 --> 00:29:16,619 in, you know, in the close of the 766 00:29:16,619 --> 00:29:17,519 late 1800, 767 00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:21,579 going out rowing in a barge. So that's 768 00:29:21,579 --> 00:29:23,200 been a really, really fun 769 00:29:23,579 --> 00:29:24,319 fun project. 770 00:29:25,259 --> 00:29:27,515 Who's getting your story aside from me right 771 00:29:27,515 --> 00:29:29,674 now? But do you are you leaving your 772 00:29:29,674 --> 00:29:30,894 story as well? 773 00:29:31,515 --> 00:29:33,454 I started to take an autobiography 774 00:29:33,994 --> 00:29:37,035 class through Santa Monica College Emeritus. So I 775 00:29:37,035 --> 00:29:38,095 have been writing 776 00:29:38,714 --> 00:29:40,654 my stories and my memoir 777 00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:44,179 things. And it's been really fun because some 778 00:29:44,179 --> 00:29:45,559 of them are about my mother 779 00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:48,179 and her dementia and, you know, what we 780 00:29:48,179 --> 00:29:50,200 went through together when she had dementia 781 00:29:51,059 --> 00:29:53,460 and about my father after he had a 782 00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:53,960 stroke 783 00:29:54,419 --> 00:29:56,634 and the fact that it was a time 784 00:29:56,634 --> 00:29:59,375 when he needed help, which he didn't want. 785 00:29:59,595 --> 00:30:02,075 So it's about the relationship that I've had 786 00:30:02,075 --> 00:30:04,734 with my parents. I'm also writing about 787 00:30:05,194 --> 00:30:07,615 some of the men in my life from 788 00:30:07,914 --> 00:30:10,954 starting at 6 years old when one of 789 00:30:10,954 --> 00:30:14,029 my little friends kissed me in his closet. 790 00:30:14,809 --> 00:30:17,609 As somebody that does capture stories, when you 791 00:30:17,609 --> 00:30:20,430 are faced with something as tragic as dementia 792 00:30:20,490 --> 00:30:22,430 that robs people of their stories 793 00:30:22,809 --> 00:30:23,710 and their history, 794 00:30:24,730 --> 00:30:25,630 how do you 795 00:30:26,255 --> 00:30:28,654 how do you support that? Because, of course, 796 00:30:28,654 --> 00:30:29,795 many of us have 797 00:30:30,335 --> 00:30:32,654 family members or loved ones who are going 798 00:30:32,654 --> 00:30:33,315 through that. 799 00:30:33,855 --> 00:30:35,235 Well, if I interview 800 00:30:35,695 --> 00:30:37,695 the person who in the who's in the 801 00:30:37,695 --> 00:30:39,315 early stages of dementia, 802 00:30:39,775 --> 00:30:41,555 which I've done quite often, 803 00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:44,789 They see that something's happening to them and 804 00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:46,950 they want or their family says, let's get 805 00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:48,809 this done while you can. 806 00:30:49,349 --> 00:30:52,330 And it's very moving because they're scared, 807 00:30:53,349 --> 00:30:56,035 of what's happening to them, the loss of 808 00:30:56,035 --> 00:30:58,375 control, and they don't know what's ahead. 809 00:30:59,154 --> 00:31:01,015 And so and they also 810 00:31:01,315 --> 00:31:04,275 feel what most people do, a relief to 811 00:31:04,275 --> 00:31:04,775 be 812 00:31:05,075 --> 00:31:07,875 able to share their stories and reminisce and 813 00:31:07,875 --> 00:31:08,375 and 814 00:31:08,674 --> 00:31:10,535 cry if they need to cry or, 815 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,580 laugh when something's funny. And 816 00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:15,259 with my mom, 817 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,039 she got her dementia was gradual and she 818 00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:22,140 still knew me until the end. 819 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,420 So there were some very funny moments 820 00:31:25,825 --> 00:31:26,644 with her dementia. 821 00:31:27,184 --> 00:31:29,345 She was living in a boarding care where 822 00:31:29,345 --> 00:31:31,105 there were just 6 people. It's like a 823 00:31:31,105 --> 00:31:32,644 house with just 6. 824 00:31:33,904 --> 00:31:35,744 I used to joke and say they were 825 00:31:35,744 --> 00:31:36,725 inmates, but 826 00:31:37,184 --> 00:31:39,710 6 residents. So they're sitting at the dining 827 00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:42,029 room table, and this woman is reading the 828 00:31:42,029 --> 00:31:44,190 paper. This is years ago, of course. And 829 00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:45,250 the woman says, 830 00:31:45,629 --> 00:31:47,629 oh, my oh, my goodness. The queen mother 831 00:31:47,629 --> 00:31:48,129 died. 832 00:31:48,429 --> 00:31:50,750 And my mother said, really? How old was 833 00:31:50,750 --> 00:31:51,809 she? She says, 834 00:31:52,125 --> 00:31:54,305 let me look. Oh, she was a 101. 835 00:31:54,525 --> 00:31:56,704 And my mother said, isn't that amazing? 836 00:31:57,805 --> 00:31:58,945 There's a pause. 837 00:31:59,805 --> 00:32:00,704 Woman says, 838 00:32:01,484 --> 00:32:04,204 wow, the queen mother died. And my mother 839 00:32:04,204 --> 00:32:07,319 said, really? How old was she? And the 840 00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:08,299 woman says, 841 00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:10,059 she was a 101. 842 00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:11,659 And my mother says, 843 00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:13,900 really? That's incredible. 844 00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,079 So this went on about 3 times and 845 00:32:17,079 --> 00:32:18,619 I had to leave the room 846 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,640 because I was laughing, but I called my 847 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:22,140 sister 848 00:32:22,744 --> 00:32:25,465 and told her we had we had lots 849 00:32:25,465 --> 00:32:28,825 of conversations about my mom where I told 850 00:32:28,825 --> 00:32:31,785 her about the experience of, say, taking my 851 00:32:31,785 --> 00:32:32,684 mother to, 852 00:32:33,144 --> 00:32:36,025 the movies and having her loudly say, what 853 00:32:36,025 --> 00:32:37,005 did she say? 854 00:32:37,609 --> 00:32:40,410 And other things like that. If we didn't 855 00:32:40,410 --> 00:32:42,509 laugh we would just be crying about 856 00:32:43,049 --> 00:32:44,809 but she still knew me till the end. 857 00:32:44,809 --> 00:32:46,410 I will tell you one other funny thing 858 00:32:46,410 --> 00:32:48,570 with her. She had a brother-in-law that she 859 00:32:48,570 --> 00:32:49,335 didn't like 860 00:32:49,894 --> 00:32:52,315 and I took her to his funeral 861 00:32:52,855 --> 00:32:54,694 and we're sitting in the front row and 862 00:32:54,694 --> 00:32:58,454 everyone's very quiet. My mother loudly says, who 863 00:32:58,454 --> 00:32:58,954 died? 864 00:32:59,654 --> 00:33:02,549 And I hissed at her, I've died 865 00:33:03,009 --> 00:33:05,890 and she kind of giggled. We get after 866 00:33:05,890 --> 00:33:07,910 the funeral we get to their house 867 00:33:08,210 --> 00:33:10,309 where you know they're having food 868 00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:12,289 and we're sitting there I gave my mom 869 00:33:12,289 --> 00:33:14,549 a sandwich we're sitting there and my mother 870 00:33:14,974 --> 00:33:17,295 said, where are we? And I said, we're 871 00:33:17,295 --> 00:33:20,335 at Carol and Bob's house. She said, oh, 872 00:33:20,335 --> 00:33:21,315 where's Bob? 873 00:33:21,775 --> 00:33:24,994 I said, we just buried him. And 874 00:33:25,295 --> 00:33:28,255 she just burst out laughing. So I have 875 00:33:28,255 --> 00:33:28,755 written 876 00:33:29,089 --> 00:33:30,150 for my own memoirs 877 00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:33,490 about those kind of stories, actually, that was 878 00:33:33,490 --> 00:33:36,150 in that was also published as an article. 879 00:33:36,210 --> 00:33:37,670 So some of my 880 00:33:38,049 --> 00:33:39,750 stories about my parents 881 00:33:40,210 --> 00:33:41,670 and what they went through, 882 00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:44,630 I've, I've written as articles also. 883 00:33:45,105 --> 00:33:47,825 So that was that's fun. That's straight out 884 00:33:47,825 --> 00:33:49,125 of a British comedy. 885 00:33:49,424 --> 00:33:50,884 Have you had people do 886 00:33:51,265 --> 00:33:53,444 what one would call a deathbed confessions 887 00:33:54,065 --> 00:33:54,724 to you? 888 00:33:55,025 --> 00:33:56,005 People frequently 889 00:33:57,265 --> 00:33:58,724 say things that 890 00:34:00,059 --> 00:34:03,819 their family didn't know before, but I don't 891 00:34:03,819 --> 00:34:04,319 know 892 00:34:05,740 --> 00:34:07,980 if there would be anything I would call 893 00:34:07,980 --> 00:34:08,719 a deathbed 894 00:34:09,179 --> 00:34:09,679 confession. 895 00:34:10,380 --> 00:34:12,859 I don't think there's been anything that is 896 00:34:12,859 --> 00:34:14,000 quite that dramatic, 897 00:34:14,375 --> 00:34:17,275 but there's a lot that people have said 898 00:34:18,135 --> 00:34:19,914 that their family never knew 899 00:34:20,454 --> 00:34:20,954 before 900 00:34:21,255 --> 00:34:21,755 and 901 00:34:22,054 --> 00:34:25,014 that they had been hesitant to tell their 902 00:34:25,014 --> 00:34:25,514 family. 903 00:34:26,614 --> 00:34:28,234 I think it's interesting 904 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,340 when you do what we do, 905 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,059 that it really aside developing empathy and listening 906 00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:38,340 skills, I think 907 00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:41,460 it truly helps develop your nonjudgmental 908 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,760 side as well. Because you can't be listening 909 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,144 to someone's story and say, oh, how could 910 00:34:46,144 --> 00:34:47,925 you have done that? Or, oh my god. 911 00:34:48,224 --> 00:34:50,545 And to that point, when I interviewed my 912 00:34:50,545 --> 00:34:52,704 mom one of the times, I said, if 913 00:34:52,704 --> 00:34:54,405 you could do it all over again, 914 00:34:54,784 --> 00:34:56,804 would you have gotten married and had children? 915 00:34:56,864 --> 00:34:57,925 She had 3 children. 916 00:34:58,224 --> 00:34:59,844 And she said, absolutely not. 917 00:35:00,359 --> 00:35:02,599 And I could have taken that 2 ways. 918 00:35:02,599 --> 00:35:04,759 I could just accept it for that's her 919 00:35:04,839 --> 00:35:06,679 the way she feels, and it has nothing 920 00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:08,599 to do with me. That's her life she's 921 00:35:08,599 --> 00:35:10,599 talking about. Or I could have gotten really 922 00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:12,839 pissed off. But I actually found it pretty 923 00:35:12,839 --> 00:35:14,954 funny because I already knew the answer, I 924 00:35:15,035 --> 00:35:16,635 think, and somewhere in the back of my 925 00:35:16,635 --> 00:35:17,454 mind. But 926 00:35:17,994 --> 00:35:20,875 it really does teach you along the way 927 00:35:20,875 --> 00:35:23,994 that everyone is really just doing the best 928 00:35:23,994 --> 00:35:25,535 they can with what they've got. 929 00:35:26,394 --> 00:35:29,369 Yeah. That's beautifully said. Yeah. Absolutely. It's 930 00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:31,050 funny about your mom. 931 00:35:31,909 --> 00:35:32,489 I have 932 00:35:32,869 --> 00:35:33,690 just once 933 00:35:34,389 --> 00:35:35,130 or twice 934 00:35:35,989 --> 00:35:39,109 when I sent the interview, the recording to 935 00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:39,769 a client, 936 00:35:40,469 --> 00:35:43,565 they've said, please remove this part. I don't 937 00:35:43,565 --> 00:35:44,545 want my family 938 00:35:44,924 --> 00:35:45,904 to know that. 939 00:35:46,605 --> 00:35:49,824 That's happened so rarely out of, you know, 940 00:35:49,885 --> 00:35:53,565 35 years of hundreds of interviews, maybe 2 941 00:35:53,565 --> 00:35:55,804 times. And I it was like, I was 942 00:35:55,804 --> 00:35:56,304 surprised 943 00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:59,839 and sorry that they felt, you know, that 944 00:35:59,839 --> 00:36:00,339 they 945 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:01,699 were so 946 00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:05,199 unhappy about having shared that. And, of course, 947 00:36:05,199 --> 00:36:08,179 I kept it. It was everything's confidential. 948 00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:09,219 You know? 949 00:36:10,204 --> 00:36:11,965 Yeah. It's hard not to dance at the 950 00:36:11,965 --> 00:36:13,344 shame prom sometimes. 951 00:36:13,644 --> 00:36:15,804 The other thing I'm doing is, as a 952 00:36:15,804 --> 00:36:18,864 gift to a friend. I'm interviewing on Zoom 953 00:36:19,324 --> 00:36:19,824 his, 954 00:36:20,204 --> 00:36:21,824 older sister and her husband, 955 00:36:22,204 --> 00:36:22,704 but 956 00:36:23,090 --> 00:36:24,869 their 3 children are present, 957 00:36:25,329 --> 00:36:25,829 and 958 00:36:26,449 --> 00:36:26,949 her 959 00:36:27,650 --> 00:36:29,429 2 siblings are present. 960 00:36:30,210 --> 00:36:33,090 And so it's a whole family thing. And, 961 00:36:33,090 --> 00:36:34,869 you know, like you were saying about 962 00:36:35,574 --> 00:36:36,074 interviewing 963 00:36:36,375 --> 00:36:37,355 of one's parents, 964 00:36:37,655 --> 00:36:41,094 everyone's asking questions. It's not just me asking 965 00:36:41,094 --> 00:36:42,554 the questions. And, 966 00:36:43,175 --> 00:36:46,635 it's really been fun because they have memories 967 00:36:46,934 --> 00:36:49,255 that the peep the the stars of the 968 00:36:49,255 --> 00:36:51,190 show don't have and 969 00:36:51,569 --> 00:36:54,210 and and their version of things growing up. 970 00:36:54,210 --> 00:36:56,150 So it's been really fun. 971 00:36:56,609 --> 00:36:59,250 That's so cool. What a great idea. That's 972 00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:00,389 really been fun. 973 00:37:00,849 --> 00:37:02,690 Tell people how they might find you out 974 00:37:02,690 --> 00:37:04,394 there in the world. Well, I have a 975 00:37:04,394 --> 00:37:04,894 website, 976 00:37:05,515 --> 00:37:06,574 living legacies, 977 00:37:08,074 --> 00:37:08,655 plural, productions, 978 00:37:09,275 --> 00:37:09,775 plural.com, 979 00:37:11,594 --> 00:37:13,535 or they can email me, 980 00:37:14,074 --> 00:37:16,635 e like elephant, k like king, z like 981 00:37:16,635 --> 00:37:17,135 zebra, 982 00:37:17,434 --> 00:37:17,934 male, 983 00:37:18,819 --> 00:37:19,319 mail@gmail.com. 984 00:37:21,539 --> 00:37:24,039 Perfect. I'll put links for people too. And 985 00:37:24,099 --> 00:37:26,280 are your books available on Amazon? 986 00:37:26,819 --> 00:37:28,760 No. These are just for the family. 987 00:37:29,139 --> 00:37:31,699 Oh, okay. Yes. And and, you know, I 988 00:37:31,699 --> 00:37:35,284 think in it for that reason, people feel 989 00:37:35,664 --> 00:37:36,485 very comfortable 990 00:37:36,864 --> 00:37:38,085 that this is private, 991 00:37:38,385 --> 00:37:40,545 that, you know, this is just for the 992 00:37:40,545 --> 00:37:41,045 family. 993 00:37:41,505 --> 00:37:42,005 So, 994 00:37:42,625 --> 00:37:44,644 there have been people who have 995 00:37:45,230 --> 00:37:48,210 given ordered books and given them to friends, 996 00:37:48,429 --> 00:37:50,429 you know, and other people, but no, we 997 00:37:50,429 --> 00:37:52,449 don't publish them on Amazon. 998 00:37:53,630 --> 00:37:54,130 Okay. 999 00:37:54,510 --> 00:37:56,449 But your own memoir will be? 1000 00:37:56,750 --> 00:37:59,204 No. I'm doing that just for fun. 1001 00:37:59,505 --> 00:38:00,964 Oh, really? Okay. 1002 00:38:01,344 --> 00:38:02,964 No. You know, that's interesting. 1003 00:38:03,264 --> 00:38:04,324 In the autobiography 1004 00:38:04,704 --> 00:38:07,125 class that I'm in, there have been published 1005 00:38:07,264 --> 00:38:09,684 authors in that class who have written, 1006 00:38:09,984 --> 00:38:11,984 you know, their memoirs and put them on 1007 00:38:11,984 --> 00:38:12,484 Amazon. 1008 00:38:12,944 --> 00:38:13,444 So, 1009 00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:17,199 but, no, you make an interest I I'm 1010 00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:18,579 gonna think about that. 1011 00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:22,880 I'd read it. I think some of the 1012 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,880 stories that I've written for the class would 1013 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,579 be fun for people to read. 1014 00:38:27,324 --> 00:38:29,085 I mean, we learn and grow with each 1015 00:38:29,085 --> 00:38:29,585 other, 1016 00:38:30,125 --> 00:38:31,425 and your experiences 1017 00:38:32,045 --> 00:38:35,164 will help shape other people who may end 1018 00:38:35,164 --> 00:38:36,765 up going through the same thing or are 1019 00:38:36,765 --> 00:38:38,525 going through the same thing now. I I 1020 00:38:38,525 --> 00:38:40,765 cannot stress that enough as well that we 1021 00:38:40,765 --> 00:38:43,159 are all just here to be mirrors to 1022 00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:45,639 each other. You're so good at what you 1023 00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:46,539 do, Susan. 1024 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,179 Thank you. I really I really enjoyed 1025 00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:52,119 spending the time with you. Well, I take 1026 00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:54,440 that as a huge compliment given what you 1027 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,055 do, so thank you. Yeah. Thank you for 1028 00:38:57,055 --> 00:38:57,954 listening, everybody. 1029 00:38:58,655 --> 00:39:00,434 Bye. Bye bye, everyone. 1030 00:39:05,135 --> 00:39:08,010 Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human wherever 1031 00:39:08,409 --> 00:39:09,469 you find your 1032 00:39:09,769 --> 00:39:11,710 podcasts. Thanks. Bye.