Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here.
Thanks for listening to another episode of hey
human podcast.
This is episode 417,
and my guests
is Richard As,
haunting at his grandparents sparked his curiosity, but
it was years before
Richard began to investigate the paranormal.
You may have seen him on shows like
Tvs haunted case files or paranormal 911 among
others or maybe you've read a few of
his 30 plus books ranging from
killers, do haunting, do fraud
and histories.
His book of grave undertaking comes out next
month. It's all about the Bloomberg family who
bought the haunted funeral home, Heather, it was
on the show.
A few weeks ago on episode 413.
If you haven't listened to that, definitely check
that out.
Richard went and
interviewed them and spent time in the house
and wrote the grape undertaking book, so that's
very cool. And as if all that wasn't
enough to keep him busy,
he's also a paramedic
he's a good guy. Really enjoyed talking to
him.
Good head on his shoulders,
proper amount of skepticism,
p,
and curiosity. It's a good combo and that
is always intriguing to me when it comes
to things so the paranormal to know that
somebody really
is not just all in for the sake
of being all in that that they're really
looking at it
intellectually, I guess is the best way to
put it. I mean, with feeling as well,
I think you have to have
your senses alive and these sorts of things.
But
I'm I'm excited for you to hear the
episodes. It's gonna be cool. In other news,
I was looking for something to watch.
I was getting overwhelmed with
all the politics and things from a couple
weeks ago, and
I started watching a show called ghosts.
It's a Cbs show, but it's on Paramount
plus.
And
I gotta tell you the first few episodes
I thought, Is kinda corny, but it's a
sweet kind of corny, so I'm digging it.
And then I just got sucked in. When
I tell you I binge watched the whole
thing, and
it made me feel really good. There there
something incredibly wholesome about it and
It made me feel like how I felt
when I watched Ted Lasso or
Shit's Creek, just really good. I don't know
if it's up your alley. Don't get paid
to tell to watch it or anything. I
just thought you'd like to know. It was
it's just a warm and fuzzy watch, and
I really needed that. So I'm passing on
to you what I thought about it. Okay.
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Thank you for listening.
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Be well, be kind.
Love, lift each other up.
Here we go.
Richard, Ace. Welcome to hey human. Thank you
for having me. I appreciate it.
Absolutely. I'm really excited to speak with you
because
you are a fascinating human
the things that you do and we are
gonna get into all of it. But let's
start with your chart to tell me where
you're from, and what's set you on your
path
I come from the Uk originally, the Midlands,
a city code Les,
which is famous, I guess, mildly famous for
its soccer.
More famous because we hide our kings under
the car
under parking lots and last. But that was
home until my mid twenties
when I relocated to the Us.
In 19 99. So I spent exactly half
of my life on each side of the
Atlantic at this point. In your childhood, did
you
begin to
experience
things that other people couldn't see. How did
you get into becoming
someone that was interested in the ether.
No. I didn't, and I still don't. I,
I've been fascinated with with ghosts especially haunting
things. But Ufo and things of that nature,
the whole gamut of the unexplained since I
was a boy, growing up, my grandparents had
a a friendly ghost in their haunted
haunted home, a suite old lady that had
been a former resident and had died there
and and stuck around and made appearances every
so often
So I was fascinated with the subject from
childhood, and, of course, there was no Tb
then, the paranormal Tv I should say. So
probably a good thing because if you wanted
to satisfy your curiosity about what things went
and wonderful. You enter the library. You got
a library card, which I did and checked
out every book 5 times over. By people
like Hand holt, and Peter underwood and Harry
Price and some of the lu areas in
the field. And that is how I really
got my education and and passion for.
Things that go bump in the nights.
Was there something that struck you as a
common ground to have the compliments that made
a haunting happen or was it happens stance
depending on the house or place? Well haunting,
I think is an umbrella term. It it's
1 that we use
and I think it's lazy for us to
to default to haunting equals dead people. I
think it's stranger than that. And there are
many different categories and subcategories of haunting, many
different type of phenomena. There are no true
commonalities in every case, which is what makes
researching them so interesting, and so frustrating at
the same time.
So you have different things that you do.
You go around and you investigate paranormal activity,
you're a paramedic, which is an interesting choice
because I'm sure you
see the the fine line between living and
dead and that kind of profession, and then
you are an author writing about all the
things that you have,
research. So let's start with the paramedic part.
Yeah. I know desire to be a paramedic
at all. When I came to the Uk,
from the Uk robert to the Us in
19 99,
while I missed apart from the obvious home
sickness and culture shock, I was in the
British Army territorial army when I was in
the Uk, and I missed the camera being
in a platoon of of that kind of
meaningful hands on work and that kind of
service and mentality. But I had an It
career.
My life here the Us was kinda dependent
on that It career.
I also wasn't gonna just up and join
the military. So I really didn't
do more than ponder that for a couple
of years, and then 09:11 happened, and Of
course, the cliche is we all know where
we were and what we were doing on
I'm 09:11,
and I was at my job
for a computer company at the time, monitoring
networks watching it happen on Live Tv and
just felt that I wanted to do something.
So I've been pondering the National guard. I
ended up instead going to my local firehouse
and saying how do I sign up?
So I became a volunteer firefighter to do
that. You have to become an Emt, which
I did. I found how much fire, the
fire department doesn't do anymore.
80 percent of what most fire palm do
are emergency medical calls in this country. I
remained a firefighter, 5 to for 15 years,
retired
4 years ago from that, but I still
continue to run 9 more 1 calls I'm
in my 20
third year right now, serving as a paramedic
and a paramedic educator. And I enjoy being
able to not only serve community and my
fellow human beings.
I I also enjoy almost everything that comes
about the discipline and art of paramedics.
Did you found the the code green campaign
or is that something you're just... Not part
of. Okay. Tell me about the Yeah. My
first book in such the paranormal it came
out. The code green campaign. So there is
a significant
issue with mental health in the emergency response
field.
Many of us have mental health challenges,
depression,
anxiety, things of that nature,
suicide happens far too often. I'm afraid. And
the code green campaign was charity that was
founded specifically help
educate and direct resources
to first responders. And so I was aware
of it and when my first book came
out. I wanted to donate a percentage of
your profits.
10 percent of the royalties from, in search
of the paranormal were donated to the code
green campaign.
That's lovely. It is
unfortunate.
It's just like the military Ptsd funds and
things. I just did... It's really sad that
that that is the offs shoot of
people who are really serving
humanity and the price set they pay for
that.
But, there is definitely a price that goes
with it. When it comes to the military
at least, we are far too quick to
send out military to war.
And yet we are less willing to help
them pick up of pieces of s lives
afterwards.
It's
similar with the emergency services, I think also
none of us are drafted. We all choose
that professional. We all choose that location. Nonetheless,
you know, it it would be impossible to...
To experience the things we experience
and not have some degree of psychological shoulder.
So, of course, it's never a competition or
anything like that. Some people are hit significantly
harder than others, based upon a variety of
factors and they need and deserve our compassion
and our systems.
I agree. I talk about these sorts of
things a lot on this show. I think
it's incredibly important.
Tell me about when you were younger, at
your grandparents house, did you you, I assume
saw her, the the ghost...
Did you interact with her? Did you not
ever her and only heard about her? I
already heard about her. My step father had
told me the stories, and
she appeared during the 19 forties when my
grandfather was
serving in the Be campaign fighting against the
Japanese army.
So, my grandmother was alone, you can imagine
1 of those War war 2 era families
she's trying to raise a gag of kids
on her own, Meanwhile at night, the the
lift offer for the German air forces
bombing, you know, the heck out of the
city, it was a very stressful time. I
often think that the the ladies that primarily
stepped the home front. Do not get nearly
enough credit as part of the greatest generation
because they raised families
not knowing if they were widows. They were
they raised families in these horrific conditions. And
my grandmother or she mail it have the
help of this former resident of the house
because this this lady would go into the
children's common bedroom that they shared at night,
after bedtime,
and would just make sure that always as
it should be after lights out that they
were all tucked in, and it didn't occur
to 1 of the kids that she wasn't
the flesh and blood human being, you know,
in that way that children just don't ask
questions, an the adult walks into the room.
She would come into the room, look around,
make sure it big everyone was good and
then leave again. And they only really mentioned
after my grandfather returned from the poor
and my grandmother was, like, there was no
there was not a lady describe her.
And the the the kids, of course, all
told the same story. They described the same
lady.
Which was the woman that had, owned the
house before they did and had passed away
downstairs.
I heard that story and and I thought
this is really cool.
But when you're sleeping in that same bedroom
alone, it's terrifying as well. So your mind
turns every creaking floor board, you know, into
a fountain foot step, And and and I
think half of me was kind of hoping
that I would have a ghost encounter in
half of me was terrified
that I would. You know, it's the ultimate
kind of yin yang duality. And I never
did. It would be too hollywood story if
I did. Right? But it did set me
on this road to being fascinated with ghosts
and haunting and why they are the way
they are. There's nothing
really for those kids scary about this haunting
at all. And it's a classic example of
a ghost with a mission. And once that
mission, which was, you know, to help out
while,
my grandmother was under all the stress, But
once that mission was completed,
she didn't stick around. She went She never
appeared again, and I like to think she
congratulate herself for a job well done, and
moved on to whatever comes next. And now
that my grandparents had both passed,
I like... I really do like to think
that maybe they got to to have a
chat and and sit around it and finally
meet in person
and laugh about that.
But without her, I would not have this
career, I would not be this teller of
ghost stories.
So I owe that, that long dead lady
my thanks to.
That's a great story. I was thinking about
this last night actually, while,
contemplating questions I would have for you.
And
I thought, you know, gosh, He wouldn't love
to be able to
sit down and talk. There's that show ghost.
Right? And I thought, how wouldn't that be
so wonderful
And at the same time, I think, I
would probably be scared to death if they
first showed up. And like you said,
what a what a duality that is because
I want that so badly. But then I
think, oh, I would I just be screaming
crying and running the other way. Even if
they were a nice ghost.
I mean, there they're really just people without
me too
So, you know, it's it's it's kind of
interesting. Right? As we
as we think about why they're sort frightening
to us,
the answer really is Hollywood.
We've all in store. If you had never
seen hollywood ghost story, you know, if you
would
never
never been exposed to that, I think that
natural curiosity and sense 1 that we have
as human beings, especially children would be the
overriding emotion. We've conditioned ourselves
to make them scary. And I bear some
responsibility for this. I mean, I've I've gotten
some scary book covers out there on purpose.
Which is kind of a bait switch in
some cases. Because I do want people to
actually pick up the books and read them,
and the sad truth is, especially these days
Most people are not that interested in pleasant
nice friendly ghosts. That's not what sells to
our great mis fortune. But in reality, I
think the vast majority of cases I've investigated
have been friendly or or at worst, you
know, neutral pointing. There have been some dark
and aggressive ones. They do have them, of
course, they do. But I would not say
they're in the majority.
You can say the same about people. You
know, you you need say
yeah.
You know,
should we be afraid of some goes? Sure.
We should be afraid of some strangers? There's
a reason we still lock our doors at
night, You know,
unfortunately, women know this far better than males
do. You know, and so,
I won't patron you by by having to
tell you that. It's just worth remark that
there are dangerous individuals out there and living
and dead. But I do think the majority
of people are decent kind and friendly, you
know?
And I think the same is true with
ghosts spirits or cold and what you will.
I wonder if
scenarios like the woman that was in your
grandparents house if
she
didn't necessarily hang around there, but when she
was needed, was pulled back to do a
job. And then
once that was done, sort of Mary pop
and style said Seal. Maybe drafted. You mean
kind of the... Yeah. Yeah
it's possible.
I'll tell you that I... I mean, my
my most common
area of...
I shouldn't say expertise but concentration is haunted
hospitals. I mean, I'm known for to that
show primarily
for several books on haunted health care. And
I get asked the lot about, you know,
why our hospital so haunted.
Leaving aside the death and those kind of
things. Something that is Well worth bearing in
mind is that the medical
profession is is filled with men and women
who feel cold. It's of calling. There are...
There are some people that go to medical
school or or nursing or whatever for the
money, of course. But there are easier ways
to get rich. But vast majority of people,
whether they're
physicians taking the hip credit oath or Emts
staffing in ambulance or hospital cleaners. They feel
compelled
to service of their fellow human beings. And
I think that you know, I've run into
so many cases of medical staff being on
duty long after they actually died.
I don't really run into this with stock
broker. I've yet to meet a a phantom
bank manager stock broker, advertising executive,
computer network engineer,
killer salesperson,
I don't run into that. Why?
Well, I don't know about you, but I
wouldn't stick around and wanna do that job
for all eternity. You know, even... I wouldn't
wanna do you know, certain kinds of jobs
administrative bureau bureaucratic jobs. I wouldn't wanna do
that and they to life but helping people,
that's the this sacred component to that. You
know? I don't mean it in a religious
sense, but I mean at a fundamental
spiritual level, it's a sacred thing. Human beings
taking care of other sick vulnerable human beings.
And I think that imperative
sometimes
survives the death of the body. And there
are number of cases of medical facilities I've
investigated where it seems as though some of
those doctors, nurses,
and so forth, x extra technicians in 1
case, they are still
taking care of people or at least they
believe they are long after they punched the
clock for the last time.
I wonder if they take care of other
ghosts or haunted
persons. I don't know what the the proper
terminology is. But,
ones who have passed from their illness, and
it would be interesting if the medical ghosts
are still taking care of the ghosts that
are sick. Yeah. I, I hope not. Mediums
tell us that
disease, pathology, illness does not come with us
beyond the physical body, which which would make
sense to me. Yeah. You know, percentages of
the body should probably be left behind with
the body. But I do think that the
word caring has a wide definition. And we
care for 1 another countless different ways, You
know, Not all of it is putting on
bandages and and things of that nature.
I'd like to think that the tele goes
are actually demons.
Calling at 07:00 while we're eating dinner.
Yeah. Is there a... Is is there some
kind of spiritual no call list I can
get on. So I don't get E piece
from them that'd be great.
It's the gist the joke is net. I'm
still waiting for the E p, or the
the Ou board message that tells me we've
been trying to reach you about your extended
warranty.
Yes. 6
tell them, so you've written over 30 books.
Yeah. 34 I think it is the moment.
I'm sure every time you get interviewed, you
do get asked for the highlight real So
let's take it 1 level down. What are
some interesting
stories that you came across that aren't necessarily
the big woo, but
something that you haven't talked about a lot.
I don't just write ghost stories. I mean,
that's that's something I I write through crime
books. I've written a book about
corruption throughout Us history
I've comic books
to Dc Thompson's Commando comics, Military comic books.
It's a broad net that is cast. And
right now, I'm just gearing up to go
to
Chicago to, research a book on moth man
for next year.
So
I'm always looking for what's a good story.
And a good story has human beings that
it's heart, a good human interest story. The
reason the ghosts fascinating me so much, I
think is that
these are people that had, you know, they
may have lived hundreds of years before we
did but they have the same stresses, the
same aspirations, the same hopes, fears, dreams, anxieties,
concerns. The the more you study history, and
I think ghosts are really a reflection
of history given form and voice,
the the the kind of like echo echoes
are, in a way. The more you study
it you realize the old saying that the
more things change the more they stay the
same is absolutely true.
So it it it almost to me doesn't
matter whether I'm writing about a haunted house
or whether I'm writing about the battle of
Getty
or whether I'm writing about some other facet
of a human life,
Any any person or people that I can
connect when connect to and help readers connect
with ta me, and I love telling those
stories.
Mh.
Have you been physically
touched by
something you can't see? Yeah. More than 1
occasion. I mean, the most the most blatant
mom was it a place called fox hollow
farm in
Indiana, which was the home of the serial
killer... Excuse me Herbert Ba,
the I 70 str, and in his pool
room, the room of the swan pool, the
pom room that adjacent to the pool which
houses the pump machinery in operating gear. I
was very very clearly touched on the Tri.
Cares crest is the word I would use.
It was most definitely a creepy touch. And,
of course, her bow was a a serial
killer who, although he was married,
was in the closet.
And targeted only males as his victim. So
I had just swam in the swimming pool
in which she committed most of those murders.
And so that kinda cares of the of
bought back of the arm. I can feel
it now, and I'm going cold just just
relating the story to you.
I was recently
indicator Alabama at a place called the Mc
House,
and we were filming a documentary,
and
the camera equipment was just going haywire. So
my Dp said, hey, could you just... We
get it or on your turf, but just
let it be? And then everything went to
normal again. But she and I in different
parts of the house
during different parts of the day without saying
it to each other,
both felt the same things, a cold... The
house is on a river. Yeah. Cold wet
hand, grabbing our right ankle.
Interesting.
Both times the right ankle. Both times the
right ankle. I wonder if there's some significance
to that. I I could feel It was
cold and wet.
What you said about the equipment is interesting
too, because usually, they seem to want acknowledgment.
And if you just treat them with that
kind of respect, I'm not saying you a
disrespectful. I'm saying it doesn't occur to most
people that go into a place and ask
bin air to be nice. You know? It
just... It's it's not logical for. It's it
seemed logical to us. We be like, hey,
we get it. We're on your turf, but
we're just gonna be here for a short
while.
But but it was only after you said
that that your equipment
stops going on there. That is true. Yeah.
So it's it's almost when you make that
that acknowledgement, that, hey, yes. I understand this
is your term.
Please meet us halfway will be respectful and
then we'll be on our way.
It's amazing how often that works well. Yeah.
Although that the hands were disconcerting. And it
felt like different than whatever was messing with
the... It you could... It's weird how you
can feel the difference.
Mh. To me at least. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that kind of experience. Have
you ever been just downright terrified.
Of ghosts, generally not. Yeah. I would say
very disconcerting, but you have to be aware
of
of what you bring in with you, you
know,
what I mean by that is that if
you bring a fearful approach to this, then
you're more likely to encounter something,
that will manifest and kind of feed on
that fear. If you go in full of
respect and courtesy and light and optimism
generally your experience will be a positive 1.
I mean, not a hundred percent at the
time. But
when you're in conversation with a stranger,
if you are nice and polite, friendly and
personable.
Chances are that interaction is gonna get better.
Alright? They having a really bad day no
matter what you say.
It's gonna be bad, But for most people.
I think that's true. And so the same
is it's true this. I encourage people that
are investigating or or visiting or locations, you
know, show these people
the same kind of courtesy in respect you
want shown to you.
And when you do that, it removes a
lot of the fear. There's sometimes an a
factor, you know, the serial killers I was
like I said, that was definitely,
you know, not a pleasant thing to experience.
But for the most part,
if you control your own mind and
approach it in a rational and respectful weight,
there's usually nothing to fit. Do you believe
that we're all capable of seeing and or
feeling them versus how mediums really can tune
in. You think that's a gift that everybody
has. They just don't necessarily... I think about
kids, kids seem to be really open. And
then as you get older, you are hold
that, oh, no, it's on your head or
there's nobody in the closet or under your
bed or whatever. Yeah. That medium seemed to
have a way to figure out how to
get past the gatekeepers. Do you think we're
all capable of that?
I don't know that we're all capable as
adults in the same way that we're not
all capable of performing certain functions or tasks.
Some people have an aptitude attitude. Some people
have a an artistic aptitude, but can have
no formal training and yet be able draw
paint or sculpt the most beautiful thing. And
then there are others that work hard and
painstaking we to develop
that to. I think that's possible in some
cases as well. But do I think we're
all sensitive? There's adults not necessarily,
as children, as you pointed out,
you know, I still vividly remember being a
a young boy, and you believe that there
are fairies at the bottom of the garden
and you believe that magic is real. And
you know, you you're exposed to those kind
of stories and you don't question it, which
is good,
and then the world kinda catches up with
you, you know, and you learn about skepticism
and cy and mock and the cruelty of
other children, and we stop believing in magic.
And so I think belief underpins a lot
of the spiel, what you believe is is
a huge significance.
Mh.
What do you think of the idea of
mimics?
Certainly, mimic has happened to me. I think
that, it's tempting to as prescribe that to
a malicious, male malevolent entity, because sound really
sinister. Right?
The idea of, of of seeing another version
of you or Do gang or hearing your
voice
come from a place where you are not.
But I also wonder about things, like alternate
explanations, time slips,
interactions with other dimensions, ultimate
universes, you know,
is this an alternate version of us bleeding
over into our world, is this a future
or past version of us?
That we are encountering. And and it it
comes back to the idea that, you know,
we equate ghosts to dead people.
I think it may in some cases be
far weird than that. I like that theory.
It's no less viable an idea. Than that
we survived death and we're able to talk
to the living? There are a lot of
tiktok accounts that do the the E, the
ghost boxes. What do you think about those?
So ghost boxes, they're a tool that I
use sparingly.
Audio
is a thing. And Paranoia. I don't know
if you're familiar with the Ted. I am.
Okay. But did but they may not be.
To just for your viewers or listeners, paranoia
is the idea that our brain desperately wants
to create sense out of chaos.
A great example of Paranoia is the man
of the moon. You look to put the
moon, you're told there's face. And as soon
as you see it, you cannot see it.
You look at a cloud, you see what
looks like an elephant chasing a dragon or
whatever. And then you cannot see it. Now,
of course, these are obviously random pants. There
isn't literally a face on the moon. But
our brain struggles to make sense
out of the... Chaos. It wants to turn
the chaos into be ordered familiar. A lot
of the time, the spirit boxes
the way those sessions will often work
will be that you'll hear the kind of
random static, the crack holder
And then you hear a burst of noise
because.
And the host will say something like, it
said kill jeff.
And now all your breaking in here when
they replayed is k jeff. You've you've been
auto suggested.
Suggestion,
confirmation bias, those are huge when it comes
to spirit boxes.
There's a real danger that the ear
here's what it wants to hear.
You know, there are some great content creators
on social media, and there are also some
absolute shi.
Yeah. There are some delusional individuals that are
doing it to a
themselves. And then there are the genuine storyteller
that are really passionate about telling truthful stories.
So as as with any other field in
life, I think evaluate
and choose
your mentors, your role models, the people you
look up to choose them carefully.
Find those creators that have integrity,
and that are interested in in telling the
story. There are far too many out there
that are trading on, you know, the night.
I almost died in the demon house of
death.
And I've been to many of these houses
isn't had someone of the best life I
sleep in my life. I'm not saying they're
not necessarily haunted. I'm saying that it's a
race to the bottom them in terms of
who can say the most shocking thing who
can, you know, make the most horrifying claims
or for views or for clicks.
Right?
You started a society to investigate all... What
year did you start that the paranormal
investigation society? Poe founded that with my watch
lori in 2005,
I believe it was. And it... It's no
longer active in that form.
Primarily what it does now is, myself in
a small group of trusted colleagues.
We
investigate haunted locations,
Very rarely we'll do health cases, but
private cases, but for the most part, we
invested haunted locations as part of my book
projects.
Okay.
Do you think Or are a thing?
I think the vast majority of Or, 99.9
percent of them.
Are,
poll, dan dust, insects,
particles that get very close to a lens,
and then they almost always appear when a
flash is used.
Which is a big giveaway.
I started investigating in the mid nineties when
there were no digital cameras, we did not
get or.
Why?
Well, number 1, we were really careful about
where we took pictures because you had to
pay to have them developed, which meant that
rather than just fire off, you know, burst
of them in a row in a a
very dusty underground basement or tunnel or whatever,
you chose your shots carefully. When you did
use a flash, the flash was usually
offset from the lens more than it is
on a phone.
Problem with the old effect is you get
this flash, the photons go out. They hit
this object that's close to the lens. Relatively
small particle of called a above whatever it
might be a droplet of moisture. They come
right back, at a very narrow angle and
you get that all effect.
This has really been a phenomenon that's
unique to the age of the digital camera
when photographs became very affordable. They're free. So
you can shoot a thousand photographs in a
night, then we talked about Para, it didn't
we. The idea that you look at this
glow or and you see a face and
if you're suggestive enough. And also,
you know, 1 of the concerning things is
if you're
breathe if you really want to believe as
we all do that the dead are not
gone forever,
you perhaps your brain
influences you to think that kinda of looks
like my lost loved 1. When in reality,
it's it's a perfectly natural phenomenon.
That being said, there are also light phenomena
which aren't explain in that way. If you're
seeing these lights with the naked eye, there's
no camera flash involved. Then you've got something
that's harder to explain, and then I'm very
much interested.
Mh.
I was... Again, this is D. There's a
bank building there that is no longer
a viable bank. It's a museum,
and
I went into the safe. They have said
that it was haunted.
And I tried using my phones recording, just
the the voice recorder didn't get anything.
And then I remembered I have that app
that,
is for sleeping,
that, you know, it's it's a att to
be able to pick up the tiniest tiniest
sound and then turn off if you're breathing
or whatever. Right. And I thought I'm gonna
use that and see what I get. So
I sat in there by myself door shut
with this thing.
And I'll began, there was a little girls.
Saying her tummy hurt, and there was a
man w
a whole tune, and I came out of
the vault, and I went into the office,
and I said, these are the things I
got, And then Was like, oh, yeah. That
cesar are. 2 of the people that are
here and I thought, is she just saying
that here. Did I really get that? No.
I'm all I me. That's terrific. You have
some... Eye witness testimony to to act as
verification. You clearly have
voices that were not present. At the time.
Like, you didn't hear them with your own
voice. Nobody was speaking. That is far more
impressive to me than they're just crackling his
static that may or may not have been
a voice.
Yeah.
So yeah. Give me give me a good
E. I'm I'm a a big fan of
those. The book about the
funeral home in Ontario.
Is that out now? Out next month. The
bloomberg. Very exciting. I interviewed them, and I
want to go stay there desperately?
You should. It's terrific. Sleep 1 I have.
How is your personal experience there. I know
you've got the books. So let's talk a
little bit The books coming out. Let's talk
about it.
Yeah. I mean, that... That's 1 of the
more active locations I've ever investigated.
The the Tv show The only criticism Have
of the show was that it was too
short. I wish you'd have been twice as
long, because I think there's such a colorful
family and there's such a rich seem to
be mined there storytelling.
But they were nice enough to give me
complete access to the house and to them,
we we put them to work. We taught
them how to investigate.
Rather than just kind of peripheral characters in
the book, they are the core of the
book. We had
communications,
what 1 that really brought to everybody's eye.
Was that, noah, the the teenage daughter. She
has the entire third floor to herself. For
a while, she'd been hearing footsteps walking around
the third floor while, she was alone of
that. And then would wake up in the
night several times because she felt somebody sitting
on the end of a bad. And when
she would wake up and look up those,
Not that.
So,
we tried a few methods of research. Got
some interesting E.
Finally, threw down a talking board, and I
know that many people have biased against talking
board or ou your board. It's a tool
like any other and as long as you
set, good boundaries and intent. It's it's no
more harmful, I believe. We're than using any
other method of attempted
communication. We made contact with a communicator that
claimed to be
a local lady who had
not died in the funeral hub, but her
husband came through the funeral arm and she'd
been here because of his funeral.
She had died locally,
and
was still around and was drawn to noah
because she missed her own children.
Now,
I'm always health skeptical of of talking boards.
So because there are those theories never valid
that sometimes what you're doing. Is you are
communicating with the subconscious of 1 or more
of the participants
that they are moving that plan share without
consciously knowing they're doing it. You know, that
is a thing.
So I decided to test it.
Upstairs in the kitchen. We were down in
the cellar in what was the old and
farming room. So I went upstairs to the
kitchen my aaron, the dad
was preparing dinner, and I said Aaron, Once
you do me a favor, I want you
to write
on this piece of paper,
a number between 1 and a hundred. Do
not tell me what it is. I'm going
back downstairs, but write it, leave it face
up on the kitchen counter.
And he did. And then we had this
session, you know, it was very emotional for
everybody, especially for Noah, and her mom, I
asked the board
Do me a favor. Would you please write
theirs and
look at the piece of paper on the
counter and tell me that number.
Now there's a 1 in a hundred percent
chance you could get this sprite randomly or
by guess word.
Those are not gray odds. The number of
Are chosen was 78.
The plan shut,
and we notice the time. The plan went
to
7,
then 8. Then 7 again, and then still
off the board.
So I'm, like,
78 or 87
and the plan chat, we put it back
on and say, yes.
I texted Aaron what was that number and
he sent me a photograph, and
the
the the board was right.
So now this still doesn't mean that people,
It could be an interesting form of psychic
information transfer.
Maybe Heather is so in tune with our
husband that she was without knowing it subconsciously
literally reading his mind. That's also as possible
as dead people. But they're good friends of
mine, but still, I I try not to
leave stones and turn. So I said, Heather,
I'm really sorry to ask you this, but
may I see your phone.
I need to see your text messages with
Aaron and your husband.
My skeptical side was like,
if they were gonna fake this,
He could just have texted her that number
the minute. I went downstairs And I would
never know.
And so I looked at her text string
for the day, and There's all, you know,
Min share, Mundane stuff, and nothing to do
with a number. There is no way that
board
could randomly have come up with that number.
1 in a hundred percent chance. Yeah.
So
it was a very fulfilling and very emotional,
Ou board session down in the. And bombing
room of that old funeral.
Oh, that's so cool. I really wanna go
there.
Absolutely
How do you go about picking
where you're gonna go?
I have a bucket list despite growing up
in Britain, I've always been a massive civil
war enthusiasts,
and also of Weston. So
last year, I decided I wanted to go,
experienced Tombstone, Arizona.
So I got together my small team of
friends and fellow investigators, and we did an
Epic road trip.
We did haunted Tombstone.
We were lucky enough to get into the
Okay corral.
For example,
which is somewhere I've always wanted to go
and investigate there. The, mines, the, silver mines
underneath the town because they're investigating there. And
then on the way back,
Lincoln County, New Mexico on the trail of
Billy D kid. Mh.
I'm really,
I am just... Fulfilling 1 lifelong bucket list.
And I'm taking readers along with me, and
fortunate that my friends are supportive that they
they will at the drop of the hat,
drive halfway across the country to go stay
in some haunted h because it sounds cool.
Yeah. Well, add me to that list. If
you ever need another person, I can have
a heavy lift. You never know. That it
depends on... I I get across the country.
I turn up in all kinds of weird
in wonderful places. So you never know. Yeah.
And you get to go to the house
of the shining, the
what is that hotel called? The The Stanley?
Yeah. The stanley? I gave tools there for
3 years, and I very much enjoyed it.
I can't write about that because I'll choose
my words carefully.
The the ghosts are not something that the
hotel
encourages
people to write about. Let's put it like
that,
which is unfortunate, but I certainly respect that
they have that opinion.
They have that right, rather.
How do they feel about the shining?
I I can't speak for for them? I
will say personally that without Stephen Cain, that
hotel would not still be in existence.
Stephen King really saved to stanley lam. It
was bankrupt
twice believe it was throughout its history
because it's now known as the shining hotel,
it attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors every
year, and there is so much more to
it. There is the rich history.
It's it's a very cool place to go.
I encourage anybody to visit.
There's so much more to it. Than the
Stephen king connection and the ghosts, but those
are still the 2 reasons people flock to
that hotel for Good for.
Of all the hotels you've been to, is
that 1 of the more haunted?
It absolutely in my experience lived up to
its reputation. It seems like, every hotel has
its ghost, in the same way that every
hospital does. And and it's an open secret,
you know, with a lot of hotel managers
and owners. That there is usually at least
1 ghost story affiliated with every hotel. So
I would say this Stanley definitely ranks high
up there. Am.
Definitely. But I've got a lot more to
try hopefully.
Do you... When you go into these places
that are
allegedly haunted
Do you do any sort of protection practice
around yourself or do you are you all
walking protected person and everything you do?
I didn't use to. I used to,
actually sc at people the dead which is
Hub and Quite Arrogant. They say pride go
before the fall. So I ended up bringing
something
from a haunted location, something Unpleasant, I think.
Or the very least it was disruptive because
my wife and I was seeing shadow figures
inside the house. My dog would go, you
know, bananas when there was no 1 there.
We had a woman's voice calling and the
house. Things like that. And then the last
straw was when a bunch of framed photographs
just prepared to jump off of the mantle
piece and almost landed on my cat who's
sleeping down below. And that's when I got
angry.
You know, mess with us, it's 1 that
you mess with my animals. We are going
to war.
So although, I'm an agnostic, I called a
friend of mine, Steven, who was a a
catholic priest and a a certified
and
He came to the house, and he blessed
the house. He spent about 2 hours going
from room to room. He would an annoy
the doorways and windows
with Holy Water crosses. And
I asked him, I, you know, Steven, I'm
an agnostic. I'm not a Christian is,
I I don't believe in in the same
thing you do, and he said, that's okay.
That you believe is what matters,
not specifically what you believe, which I found
very enlighten and interesting. And he went he
went systematically from room to room floor to
floor, almost as if you were sweeping dust
and dirt out of your home, you know,
you would go from the back to the
front and then sweep it all out the
front door. That's what he did. And the
disturbances has stopped
instantly. Yeah. I think it's about boundaries. And
Yes. I agree. I feel like people have
dominion over themselves regardless if they believe in
a higher power or not or any of
this, and it's 1 of those things like
I think, well, maybe it's not whether I
believe in them, but whether they believe in
me.
I think you make a great point and
people do have to dominion know himself. So
I did learn some protection, and I will
set down verbally. When I leave a location,
I will,
categorically
state
that
nobody or nothing is permitted to attach to
me. Nothing can follow me from this place
or anybody that I'm with. And then I
envision. I do some basic light work just
some visualization of, like, a, you know, a
the golden kind of light that is coming
down from above, and it's kinda washing any
negativity, anything.
That may have attached to you out of
you going from top to bottom, and then
you leave it behind, like, an ic muddy
puddle on the floor out of it go.
And it really is just giving a focus
to that very specific belief I think.
Yeah. Since I've done that, There's an old
saying if it sounds stupid and it works,
it's not stupid, and this is officially not
stupid
because it's it's worked for me ever since.
Do you think when you pass away, do
you wanna stick around for a minute and
do a little ghost action or do you
wanna go wherever it is to go?
My my fault is that... Again, I think
it common mistake we make. You talk about
a place being haunted, and we tend to
assume it's always wanted. 03:00 in the morning
on Ban Holiday, Monday, it's haunted Christmas day
at 9, it's haunted. It's haunted Wednesday night.
I kinda of think
if there's any such thing as, you know,
the free will in the next life or
or whatever form it takes. I like to
think we get to travel
and we get to visit and revisit. The
mediums that say that spirits don't experience time
in the same ways as the living. I
find that very encouraging. I hope I can
revisit my childhood. I hope I can revisit
places and times long gone.
Maybe bounce ahead into the future who knows
I like to think that there will be
variety that we are not
psychic shack or chained to 1 specific
time and place. That's my my hope. It
makes no sense to me that,
a being of some other form of energy
that's no longer subject to the rules of,
you know, earthly physics. Why would you be
stuck in 1 place? It just doesn't make
sense. I like that thought to that we
can go anywhere at any time? That's a
nice thought.
If somebody wants to get into this, what
are some of the top hints of
or
the plan of action?
I'd say probably,
reading is is Kim, I'm very biased. As
we all have our biases. So I think
it's very tempting to assume because you've seen
it on Tv, it's the right way to
do it. And I think that that is
a mistake. What you see on Tv is
primarily
entertainment. It is heavily edited and sometimes it's
grossly distorted. I I suggest
finding somebody knowledgeable and ethical that you can,
work with,
read widely.
And read the classics too. I mean, there
is some terrific books out there. I would
always recommend Dia and Play book. This house
responded about the En field haunting. It's it's
1 of the most definitive case studies of
a haunting you've ever seen and that dates
back to the 19 seventies. The book as
relevant today as it ever was.
Read widely,
choose your role models carefully, and you don't
need to invest an entire rent or mortgage
payment in equipment. That's a common perception.
You can get what you need to do
a thorough solid investigation for under a hundred
dollars. If you think about the original
psychic researchers,
so all of the large, william Crooks off
conan doyle,
Catherine Crowe, people of that nature and I
should probably say Catherine Crowe first.
Because she was really the old guard. They
did not have the gadgets that we have
today. They didn't have these massive tech budgets.
They didn't have infrared cameras and Sls cameras
and things like that.
They had a pencil,
a notepad, and most interestingly, all, I think
an in
rational logical mic. If you have that, you
can record E on your phone, just using
its voice memo function. You can snap photographs
that way.
So it it can be very affordable. There
are no shortage of,
s and Hoe that are willing to try
and separate you from your money. So I
would also advise you that in the paranormal
field isn't many fields in life. Your willingness
to believe somebody's claims,
you should
factor in
how hard they're trying to separate you from
your money. Yeah. That's good advice. Yeah. I
do think that those sleep,
for anyone listening the sleep apps that record
you while you're sleeping.
That's... They seem to be more
pickup quieter things.
Mh.
Better than the regular voice recorder. At least
in my experience of 1 time...
Yeah. I mean, it worked. It sounded like
you got great results. Yeah. And I'm not
saying you shouldn't buy equipment either. But by
the same token, if you're gonna start strength
training, you can begin with push ups. You
don't have to go buy a home multi
gym or an annual gym membership. Right? You
can start out, and then you can modify.
You can slowly add. And by the same
token, there does not need to be a
steep buy into this.
Start with an inquiring in positive mind,
educate yourself read wisely read widely rather, and
wisely went off. Don't assume that the Tv
will teach you what you need to know.
There is some good stuff on Tv. There
are some ethical people working on Tv. The
same is true of Youtube, the Tiktok and
Instagram places like that. But there are also...
There's definitely a dark side to that as
well. Yeah.
And how might people find you? What's the
best way? And what if somebody has a
haunting that they're unsure of, can they reach
out to you? Or is that something that
you're not really into just random people. I
I do... If people ask me for advice,
I do give it. Bear in mind that,
free advice is worth what you pay for
it. And I never charged revise. That. That's
not what I mean. Can reach me through
my website, richard s step dot net. And
I do love talking to people an interest
in this field I really do. So reach
out to me there on Facebook. I'm richard
est Author on
Instagram, I'm Est r, same thing on, Twitter
or x or whatever, Elon is calling it
this month. So, cash social media you as
well.
Okay. Great. I really appreciate your time. It's
such an interesting field.
I'm really glad we got a chance to
talk. Thank you for being open to it.
Was a pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.
Absolutely. And everyone, the book, the new book
comes out. It's a a grave undertaking, and
that'll be out at the end of August.
End of August. A gray undertaking and I
hope you dig it. That's great.
Thank you so much, and thank you for
listening everybody. Bye.
Bye now.
Great to review and subscribe to hey human
podcast podcasts on itunes wherever you get your
podcast.
Thanks.
Bye.