Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here.
Thanks for listening to another episode of hey,
human podcast.
This is episode 413,
and my guest is Wiley Mcgraw. Wiley story
is a ride through professional baseball,
competitive bull writing and 3 tours of service
is a Us army combat veteran.
He's also the host of wise words and
whiskey podcast.
We had a great conversation. This took place
a little while ago,
and I'm just now getting it out into
the world.
And really interesting guy,
really a stand up guy. Love talking to
him.
And I think you will enjoy this 1.
General stuff. I'm on
patreon at Susan Ruth. Check out hey, human
podcast dot com for links and to learn
more about
My guests in the show, check out susan
root dot com to learn more about me
and my other artistic endeavors,
and follow Susan Ruth and, hey, human podcast.
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Thank you for listening or coming up on
8 years, which is so bonkers to me.
I really appreciate you, and thanks for, you
know, being a part of this journey with
me.
Be well, be kind,
be beloved
Here we go.
Why leave girl welcome to hey human.
Thanks for having. I appreciate it.
I learned of view through Rebecca.
Our mutual business associates. I guess, yeah a
good way to put it. And
she
had reached out to me actually about you
in general,
and
I started of reading your bio and I
thought, well.
I wanna get this guy on my show.
So Was trying to help her get you
on another show. Yeah. And so I'm really
glad you're here. It's well. Thank you. Yeah.
Yeah. I think so too. And thank you
for the the support on the other show
as well. Yeah. Absolutely. My pleasure. Let's start
with where did you grow up what shaped
you
into becoming who you are now?
Well,
that's quite the stories. I'll do my best
to
t it is as fast as very as
possible. But I I was born in Southern
California. So From Orange County, California, originally. I'm
the oldest of 3 boys, and I grew
up into a household of sport. So my
father was a semi pro ball player in
the seventies. As an out filter, you know,
had potential to be a professional baseball player
But at the time, you know, a lot
of different variables from there wasn't a ton
of money in sports in the seventies, at
Etcetera, of course, his ambitions were probably lane
elsewhere. So he didn't go that route. However,
you know, having 3 sons, you know, the
first born showcasing that he had an arm
at a very young age. My dad started
to cultivate, you know, the whole sports
persona. So we were put right into sports.
Myself, Baseball was a primary focus, but I
did play
football off season. I did play some soccer
as a young kid. Which I really enjoyed
as well. My middle brother played in Baseball,
but he was more of a football focus
guy. And then my youngest brother brother who
came 6 years after I was born at
it at some point when he got on
owner, he started to do a little bit
of of all of the different sports but.
I think he found his footing, like, the
cross country tracking field. So we found our
own niches as, you know, these young men.
But they small...
Grow up an house full of, you know,
grandparents were entrepreneurs,
uncles and aunts medical professionals, doctors, my dad
I was an entrepreneur also
real estate his entire life, so he sold,
really really good high end properties and things
like that. I grew up in a a
pretty decent middle class. I would say upper
middle class family.
However, you know, it's again, it's big Irish
Scottish Catholic family, so all my grandparents are,
you know, they hail from Scotland and Ireland.
So I grew up in that kind of
household where it was very strict, disciplined,
very focused, stoic if you will at time.
So a lot of them was very you
know, you were met as a child to
be seen and I heard my and queues.
My, you, my parents taught me, you know,
manner morals
respect for my elders. Like, rub that kind
of environment. However, there are a lot of
other variables to the intensity of that kind
of family dynamic that I help Mold as
well. I mean, dealing with people that had
a very high functioning addictions to stress a
lot of a lot of generational, stress and
trauma that was not dealt with. So that
seat into the family life as I grew
up, but sports were the outlets. So I
played sports urine and in year out,
Excel that as a picture. Was a sturdy
picture on every Baseball team that I played
on because of my my talent capabilities. And
as I got older,
I noticed that
I got into high school and I was
like, okay. I started to have those conversations
as a as they go, man going, okay,
but, what do I really want? You know?
Is this a sports we're sports the thing
I would actually really chose or... And I
realized I was actually put into the game
and not really...
I didn't get to decide.
The game itself. I need get to choose
that path. So as I got into high
school, sort develop my friendships and, you know,
your personality grows,
I had that battle in my mind of,
like, where I wanted to go, and I
started to seek out alternative worlds that really
started to challenge that I wanted to be
challenged.
And I wanted to go break away from
the conditioning of you're gonna perform perfect in
the sport. You're gonna be an athlete year
in you're out. This is your focus. You
go to church. You go school. You do
your work, good gig grades. You know, and
I did well. I mean, I, you know,
my off time, I played play Gi Joe's
with my brothers and my friend's neighborhood. We
wrote be on bikes. We escape all the
time, You know, we're Gen kid. So we're
always
away from the house, we were focused on
sports. So it was really pulling got those
experiences.
Learn how to survive on water... Water from
garden hoses and, like, you know, riding bikes
10 miles away from when you're not supposed
to. And it was fun. But as you
get older, you go, okay. Well, where am
I gonna start grounding myself to to what
it is that I want and you start
to notice those patterns, those those emotions those
thoughts... And they start to conflict with what
you up with. And for me, personally, I
started to combat that path that I felt
that I was being put on and I
found myself naturally challenging what my dad expected
of me, and I chose to move towards
a different direction. So at that point, I
got into bull writing I think it's 16
years old in high school. I got in
this competitive world of, of riding bowls and
Rodeo. That exciting me turn me on to
a whole new, meaning of life at self,
what it meant for me to be a
little bit more while, a little bit more
free. And I wanted more of this. So
I started chasing things that kinda mimic those
environments and the the next best thing that
came from that experience was a military And
and of course, coming also from a legacy
military family, it made sense, though at the
same time, you know, that would be kind
of like a part of the path or
the decision making process. So
in a nutshell, I grew up in a...
I mean, again, I... It's not like, you
know, there was no
danger or chaos to the degree of, like,
I had a very bad upbringing.
But, again,
I grew up in a good household as
far as manners in and morals and Pc
queues and learning how how to actually live
in society and respecting 1 another
but the stress of the dynamics in the
family, they started to play a role and
where I wanted to take my life, and
I think that's why when I got the
into the high school world I found myself
pulling away from sports and got into rodeo
and then eventually the military and said I
wanna go get away from all this and
figure out how to carve my own path.
How was the family reaction to you deciding
to go a different direction. The fact that
your eldest child probably helps. I imagine.
Wait.
It's interesting this is my father, So I
look like my dad. So I'm I'm I'm
literally spitting image of him. And I think
my dad expected to be as a leader
of the boys
for the 2 brothers to set the example
and to lead by that example, but to
stay focused on a very specific career path
so that I can mold and shape the
younger brothers to do the same. Again, very
successful people in my family. I mean, I'm...
We're we're talking about hospital executives, doctors,
My grandparents were multimillion millionaires because they were
in their investments in their entrepreneurial entrepreneurship and
stuff like that. So
it's you know, my my dad's dad was
a world war 2 vet, you know, Normandy
as well. I'll retired police chief. So they,
you know, they... There... There's this interesting background
between all the different members of the family.
But my father,
he wanted something specific for me. And I
understand to respect that, I I get it.
But when I decided to start to naturally
break away from... I would say the... I
the... It's almost like I was... I felt
more confined by the
by the expectation rather than free. I love
the baseball I love to play the game,
but it naturally didn't evolve to where I
could go to college and play it. It'd
be where I should've have gone. I did
my own thing. And
to answer your question really, what was interesting
was my dad and I got into a
lot of heated
back and forth, arguments units and conversations throughout
high school because of that decision. He did
not like me writing bulls. He, you know,
he told me he gave me an attitude,
which I thought was Hilarious and I was
like, well... I've got an attitude because of
how I beat expected to to perform. So
I don't know. It was... I would say
I look back now given especially everything I've
done in my life and even the work
I do, etcetera.
It gave me a whole new playing field
with dealing with the unknowns and stress, and
dealing with and managing
confrontation. And learning how to stay in the
discomfort and realizing that that discomfort doesn't mean
it's bad. It just means
something's changing. So I took that harley it
into the rest of my life and realized,
I was built to confront, And I just
needed those experiences to awaken that up. And
I think that, you know, again, I look
at this way. I was going to Church.
I was praying for a a different life.
I wanted to look maybe God was directing
me in that way. Like, hey, I need
you to confront something, so you can expose,
a little bit more of how you were
built. And you can find your footing in
in life of the path you wanna go
on and so you can walk up happen
to me. I I cherish
the decision to go against my dad's wishes.
And I honor the confrontation that I had
with him through high school, and it was
very uncomfortable coming home on a daily basis,
be under his roof. My dad's very stoke
and very it gives you a look and
you're like, okay. I'm not I'm not crossing
that boundary. You know, my dad dad's not
a push over. So having that those interactions
built me into a different type of more
brazil like man and really helped me accept
excel in the military and then take that
from the military and move out into the
world we're finding my my footing as an
entrepreneur and do my own thing. Really,
I I look back in and I'm I'm
grateful for him. So isn't it interesting
that we put a negative
connotation on
confrontation. That that word of itself. Sounds very
intense when Right really all it is is
having boundaries
and having a voice,
and learning how to have your own voice.
Right? And and saying this is who I
am and having dominion over oneself.
And I think now I you're Gen x.
Right? So the language back then, not so
much. The language now, of course, facilitates that
kind of
standing up for oneself, but you grew up
in a totally different time, and that's...
That takes big honest, I think to stand
up to the father, especially as the eldest
Child. Where... Was on around? No. My parents
were divorced when I was 12. That's, again,
that stress did not help, you know,
3 brothers. So, again, it's horrible when parents
get divorced in general regardless of the situation.
So that that was another...
Another whole world. I had to be the
oldest in that
dynamic
to help deal with my mom's new husband,
my dad's in relationship, the brothers, etcetera. So
there was a lot more of that compounded
on top of everything we had going on.
They did the best I could for what
they had going on. And and it is
what it. And at this point, I think
all these years later, they're still best friends
and I still... Have known each other since
my mom was 13 years old. So it's
not like they're going anywhere. But the reality
here was, yeah. In that time, you don't
you don't... You mind p's in queues. You
you respect your elders. You don't argue in
combat,
your parents or grandparents, you know? And it's...
However, I I also feel like there's... Again,
there's a spectrum to that. Just like you
just said, competition sounds like a very charged
word, but there's a spectrum to competition. I
think the lowest end of it would be
to just do something you know you need
as a boundary
and ask someone to participate that otherwise would
neglect or reject you for it might be
uncomfortable for you as a lower end spectrum
of the confrontation. Whereas the hiring end could
be an actual all out physical altercation with
someone or
or straight up getting into AAA raging argument
to to to create some form of, like,
discord change in the in the relationship or
dynamic And I think people miss that as
well. They go
confrontation equals discomfort, discomfort. I don't like and
I avoid it, and then they get upset
and wonder why things aren't necessarily changing or
their isn't being produced through the efforts that
they that they're... They are putting it. And
I I've had a conversation someone recently about
that. And they said, I'm not a conversational
person. They yeah, But you've been doing the
the way you've been doing for 15 years.
Nothing's been changing. So maybe it's time for
you to actually confront x in your in
your life and maybe you have that conversation
that you've been avoiding it this entire time.
Because that's what you've been missing. Is that
1 piece of competition. And it's just tell
the person how you feel, share with them
what you need, tell them what you want
for your life. And and letting them have
that react and realizing
nothing bad gonna happen to you. So... Yeah.
No I mean, it's tied into Ego. Right?
We're afraid to say how we feel about
things we don't want the other person to
think less of us. And so Right keep
quiet. And that... A big part of it.
Yeah. I think a big part of that
too is, self
awareness.
The fact that we don't even confront ourselves
with so much.
Oh, we avoid more than we actually confront
The... And I I think you'll appreciate this
is it takes more energy to avoid something
than it does to confront it. It sounds
counterintuitive intuitive, but the truth is it it
it you actually have to
ex exhaust so much more mind space, brain
brain energy, heart all of it to hold
on to and avoid something. Rather than just
going, you know what? I'm gonna have this
uncomfortable moment with this person or this situation
because I need to not carry this anymore,
and I need to move through it. And
I think that's the heart adversity does build
character and it does build resilience and it
does build strength within us to handle
life's challenges and problems that we face because
life is basically war. We're gonna constantly go
through them. If you're not... If you're... If,
like train at the gym or anything, you
might If you're not doing it consistently and
getting the experience, when you actually face something
real and really hard, it you crumble under
that pressure, and then you... Then you're back...
I think it's like that 2 steps forward
step back. You're further backed than you wanted
to be, and you're your grasping for what's
next?
To pull you through that. And then I
think that's the last thought here I would
say is that's where people get lost in
the world of spending time energy money
on solutions they think outside of themselves that
are gonna pull them through that those problems
rather than realize. I have to first address
myself, and then I have to confront that
reality and then I have to go do
something about it. Yeah. It's interesting that you
said life is like war. I... I'm it's
terrible as that sounds. I I actually agree
with that statement.
We do fight our battles
all the time. We're constantly...
Life is a series of walking through fire.
It is. And if it's too comfortable, you
don't grow. And it's
my 1 of my favorite quotes I kinda
altered it, you know, because I live by
it, but,
I'm trying... And Frank said it was
you only truly know someone when you fight
them. It is only then that their character
is revealed.
And that's... It is so true. Even in
in... When it comes to people coaching each
other when it comes to therapy, when it
comes to
anything in life that is meant to propel
us forward in a more progressive manner as
an individual's.
If you don't have If you're not willing
to fight that person through whatever dynamic is
sticking because our human beings are very
resistant to change. So anything that's ugly and
uncomfortable that they deemed as
do not touch... Do not look, do not
say. Those are the very things we should
be fighting. Those are the very things we
should be confronting interrupted, getting out in the
front because those are the very things that
are in fact, limiting people's capacity to actually
experience more for their life. But we we
wanna tip to around that. We wanna find
the hacker the the shortcut, and we wanna
create an idea of just discomfort in our
mind by doing kinda some little... Like, you
know, we'll do a couple reps in the
gym. I feel a little bit of a
burn in my biceps, so I'm gonna stop
right there. Whereas if you were to embrace
that burn and go beyond that burn. That's
when the muscle starts to grow. And I
think that's the piece that's missing too. Mh.
Before we get into military, I... Just because
how often do I get to talk to
someone that's written around on a bowl. What
was that like?
Scary. Yeah And also, not to be rude,
but how does that match just destroy your
genitals?
I know no. It's not rude. It's a
great question. I... You know what? I I
think you're the second person ever asked me
that. So it's interesting is because it's all
about technique and fundamentals. So when you learn
how to sit on the back of the
animal. Again, like, we're men, we have those
things there I'm sitting on a chair. So
at the end of the day, I'm still
not crushing myself, well, there's a technique to
it. There's a way you sit down on
it. Writing bowls is no different. However, it's
a live animal and. So there's a lot
of g duration and movement under underneath refused,
so there's a lot could happen. And I
have been jar there a few times. So
it's not like it doesn't happen. However,
the focus,
it's like... But riding bulls was scary, exciting,
exhilarating
nerve nerve wracking. It was all emotions you
truly can feel it once when you start
doing it at first.
All present. It's almost like a flood of
every part of you just becomes alive. It's...
You go, wow. I never even
understood
as a human need, what that would even
feel look or sound like. And you talking
about adrenaline, like the adrenaline drug? Or Not
even the adrenaline just
it's almost like a the wait... It's the
awakening of your mind, the ability to... It
it almost brought broaden your horizons. It's the
I don't know how to explain it it's
such an experiential thing. However, I would say
it ignited a version of myself that I
think had been missing planes baseball with my
dad and growing up in that household. It
was like this exciting new part of this
wild version of Wiley that
I knew was there that I didn't know
how to access. It's almost like getting into
that very uncomfortable environment, which is bull writing.
Rodeo is Very dangerous. It's very it's very
full of unknowns. That's the key. It it
it excited be because there were so many
variables of unknowns that I I could not
control. And I think that's what really old
me towards and wars because what could you
be capable of if you embrace the unknowns,
you embrace a fear that comes from those
unknowns?
And then you learn for what you discover,
when you get shocked to buy what comes
at you through that unknown. And to me,
bull writing gave all of that to me.
On top of a couple Charlie horses and
some rack, you know, groin area stuff and
some broken bones, but back. I'm sure. Yeah
Broken... Yeah. I've fractured my o 4 when
I was 21. So it it is amazing
how that all just... It was almost like
it solidified the world of, okay. What fear
means what we can do with fear? How
we can harness it how we... It's not
about trying to get rid of it and
realized it's about recognizing it and why it's
being stimulated and how do we harness that
situation? To then ex execute it into our
performance so that we can execute upon a
task, we not may not be total a
control of. And realize realizing that life is
full of unknowns and life is full of
variables we cannot. I think humans try to
control everything, and that's why I feel they're
they're miserable and they're unfulfilled and they're always
seeking more things
and they're not surrendering and realizing there's a
lot we can't control and there's other factors
in life that we need to give ourselves
to. So more writing just became this, like,
5 years, I could did it competitively on
the lighter end. I got to just be
more grit,
more
wild. I got to explore
versions of my sides of myself that I
didn't even the... I wasn't even allowed to
ex dude in that household. You know? And
I got rowdy with cowboys. I learned how
to fist quite better that way. I mean,
all the all those different pieces
gave me AAA new view of the world
around me.
And I took that as, like, a really
nice stepping tool, but also a tool, a
really good tool
for me as a human being. Not saying
you have to go right a all, but
I would find environments that are similar that
really scare you because if it doesn't really
scare you, it's not really gonna change you.
If you're not shocked from within,
nothing changes. You have to be rattled And
I think it's going back to conversation we've
talked about is if you're not... I confronted
the fear. I got the back of a
bowl. Unless I'm gonna do it anyway. And
when that both fell on me, I loved
it. I was like. Let's do it again
Let's do it again. Let's do it again.
Let's see what else I can do. Let's
see what else I I'm capable of. And
at some point, when if god tells me
stop, he's gonna... I'm gonna stop. And 1
day, I I got stopped, and that's just
how it works. So... What stopped you? I
broke my back. Oh, that would do it.
Yeah. Yeah. Right here. I'm I'm fortunate. I
would say blessed because I was in the
army at the time, and we'll go go
to that. I was on leave and I
fractured my L 4, but I fractured the
body in the l 4 with my hairline.
So I didn't break any of the external
bones and it damaging the nerves. It was
just a a hard impact and blunt forced
trauma into the lower back after I got
thrown off, and I got rehab for a
few months, and I got back into training.
I didn't... I definitely didn't lose out any
opportunities think on. So... The way you're describing
being on the ball, it it feels like
what I imagine an Olympia fields, or it's
that idea or a ballet dancer or
that thing or even a admitted to something
that's deep and meditation that or kung fu
any of that stuff. It's almost like your
whole body has to be on at the
same time until it becomes
almost like a flow state, and that means
just... We're bond and you probably on the
beginning. I'm sure, but that you develop it
into being
such a hyper awareness of every part of
not only your being. That's good. Mean average
not horses, and I know don't have to...
Really... It sounds corny.
But you had to become 1 with the
horse to really have a exceptional ride. You
you become 1 being. You do. I imagine
that it's it's
kind of like that. It's exactly. And a
great way to describe that for people too
because it is... You would do have to
connect to that animal, And that's the thing
is
it like horses. I love riding horses too.
When you're on the back of that, it's
that's a that's a life...
You're you're on the back of another living
creature.
There is a spirit there. So you connect
to that animal and you realize that this
is not... You're not... If you separate yourself,
that's when I find... I found that when
I would do the separation when I'd be
too focused on... I'm gonna ride and I
get too worried into my prep team again
get on the back of them. I would
actually get thrown off much quicker or I
get slammed a little harder. When I would
be present a little bit more focused, and
I would connect to the, I would feel
that life underneath me. I would fuel his
breath and moving in and shifting in a
in that shoot. Prior to come out, putting
our rope on there, smelling him and just
connecting with him, slowing down and actually allowing
myself to be present, to be focused to
be 1 with my emotions connecting to just
that moment.
My rides were way better.
Now it doesn't mean I didn't... You don't
practice. We have fundamentals. You go train on
barrels that we have we build together to
to practice the bucking patterns and you you
strengthen your body. You have to strengthen your
forums. Bull writing is 80 percent legs. So
you ask about, you know, the groin. A
lot of the times you're posting your... You
sell by squeezing your legs up off the
animals. So there's a lot of physical demand
in that sport as well. But as the
years progressed like riding horses.
I was in the same way. When First
got my first source I'm like, I don't
what to do. After a while, you become
home with that animal, and they could feel
you too, and then the... It's almost like
a dance. Mh. She's had his beautiful dance.
And you end up performing way better. It's
interesting how that works. The animal knows.
Yeah. I I believe the animal knows. They
do. When you're connecting to them. The it's
a respect and an honor thing.
Granted, I'd need to be a bowl with
all my junk tied up and a knot
or whatever they do to make them so
pissed off. But Well, that you're they're ready.
They're all the raise to do that. So
they are the the rough stock that these
companies
rays for babies,
our bread to buck. That's lit literally all
they're designed to do It's like a race
force. They're the bread to buck. They know
when they get in that tight confined space,
and they have that... What's called a flank
strap. It's rapid... It is. It's closer to
the, like, your... About is a strap around
your bladder.
And squeeze right around that area a rope
really tight. That's uncomfortable. So, yes, there's a
flank strap there that they're trying to kick
up as well. Plus they have your rope
right underneath their breast plate. So that you
have these 2 ropes on this animal. So
it's already designed to do that. And then
on top of that you're giving it in
this confinement and you're putting these ropes on
it of course, it's gonna
blow out of that gig and that gate
opens and it's gonna try to throw you
and everything else that it's not on it.
And, I I've spent time in rodeo arenas
prior to a jackpot that I ridden in.
Hanging out with some of the rough stock
that we were gonna ride the next day,
and they're just grazing in walking around us
while we're drinking beer and no, they're not
kicking us trying to kill us. So
they're just docile loving creatures as well when
they're not putting in that position to do
their job. So it's
it it's pretty wild
to have that experience. Yeah.
So interesting.
Yeah. I love this. I would... I've never
been able to ask these questions, so it's
really great. That's great.
It's great.
Do you 2, if going back to this
conversation about confrontation, I have a a show
that I do on Youtube with my friend
who's a sex psychologist.
And we had an... It's it's a sex
and relationship show, and we had an episode
about
communicating.
And
I talked about how they say when you
had to have those really big
conversations with your your partner or family, whatever.
That to touch them in some way, whether
your feet are touching or your hands are
touching,
and I I feel like it's it's a
little bit of the same sort of thing,
You know, the little hand on the shoulder
or or being so close in proximity
that that your energetic fields if you will.
Our coat or comm ming? Yeah. Yeah. That
it
facilitates a much better
communication
in those times of stress when you have
to talk about the really important things.
Yeah. That's good That's good that you brought
that up.
I would... My brain's going a thousand miles
an hour that 1.
It's interesting is
Yes. I I
people that have to have the hard arguments
or conversations in the relationship. Most of the
time when they... It starts to get really
plot
what's the first thing most people do? Time
up?
If to be I go, no. I even
some of even my psychologist,
colleagues I have that work in my business
with me over the years is to the
fact that what I've even understood in the
dynamics of human beings, how messy we really
are. Those are the moments. When it's getting
hot, that's when you're getting truth. That's when
you're getting
the clarity of what's really going on. And
it... That is when you should actually stay
engaged. Now
you'd also need to... Mean, caveat.
Discern,
discern, the difference between whether it's just becoming
some argument of violent and experience versus a
very hot heated productive. Debate back and forth
productive conversation. That's the other thing is let's
make sure we don't go. You know? I'm
just gonna engage in this until someone pulls
out a gun and we get into a
gun fight. That's not what I'm saying there.
But, like your friend said, like, you talk
about of your other show. It really the
touching or at least being approximately sometimes, when
things are exploding,
touching is not necessarily a good. Mean people
need to keep that, but being engaged and
staying in that heat, that is where the
real
transformation of that conversation can go. If the
2 people or more are open and willing
to to keep engaging and under scanning the
other side rather than trying to win the
argument. I think I the other thing is
we try to win arguments rather than trying
to find solutions. Yeah. To the problem,
it's not about winning.
And that's not really what it's about. So
I like that because if I if I
haven't an argument someone I know, and it's
a really heated 1 because I'm a big
energy and I can create some interruption. I'm
staying engaged that. That's... I know that conversation
creating a movement for that person, and myself
maybe as well. I'm okay with it. And
I just said, no, don't go anywhere. Don't
go anywhere. This is where we get to
the real juice here. This is where it
really matters. And I think that's another piece
too is that people can just stay... But,
you know what? That's the conversation muscle. That's
the discomfort muscle. Like I do with my
dad, stay there until it comes to a
solution. Find where you you be surprised what
happens afterwards,
then take your time out. Yeah. It's the
fifteenth rep.
I that's right. It is sometimes it's like,
I I can't do it. You know what
you can. Don't let your mind make you
quit. When it's the most uncomfortable because you're
capable a lot more than you think you
are. And I think that... That's a big
piece of it. I think that thing that
people lose side of when they are
healthy arguing
is they they get cruel sometimes, and you
can't take words back.
And, like, you said, the idea that there
has to be a winner, and that's just
not what a partnership is.
And anything they business, you know, friendships,
intimate relationships. There should never... It should not
be about a winner. It should be about,
a problem... You should be a problem solving
together. It doesn't matter if someone is right
or not. Again, again, my wife is right
with certainty. I I hundred percent.
She's right. I'm not going to
combat her and become an an a analyst
adolescent and child and start lobbying insults because
I don't like what she might be saying.
If she tells me something, and I'm... And
I... I didn't even think of it or
I don't understand it. I gauge and go,
what is that you need me to do
right now? What what did you just say
have that... What I'm not seeing? What was
it that I didn't just... I I will
engage that.
Because clearly, the person outside of me saw
Or felt something that maybe I'm not aware
of, and that's a beautiful thing. And I
think the other thing is people miss opportunities
because they hear something. They don't like the
way it sounds. They think it's wrong. They
just go, you know what. My my coach
said something I didn't my therapist said something.
Like, you know what? My friend said something,
my lover, it doesn't matter. Maybe that's the
thing you needed to hear to rattle
whatever's is in your way out so we
can get to the clarity and we can
then
confront it together, and we can create solution
and evolution happens between us. So... He, we
just solved all the world's problems just now.
No. I happy about that. Oh, my goodness.
Ego and the evil and all the other
things Got Ego. Yeah. Ego is relationship killer.
At Let's get into military. So you decide
it's time to you said you were still
doing the bowl
writing during military. So when did you make
that decision and being a legacy I get
that. But what was the the moment that
he went, oh, this is my new path.
Well, you candidly speaking in full transparency, it
was
It was a 50 50 thing where my
brother, and my middle brother and I, my
dad
introduced us. We were in our Boxing Club
in Anaheim, California.
There was a gentleman there who was a
gunner sergeant in marine corps, and I'll don't
forget him Ed Caustic with his name. And
my dad say, hey, Ed runs
program, prep for a Junior Program called the
Devil pops. He's like, you guys have wanna
do it. It's like kinda... You know, we
were in high school football at the time.
You were getting ready for Varsity as a
sophomore and
Was like, yeah. Let's do it. You know?
So let's go do it. So we got
into that program 12 week training program, and
then 2 weeks, we did a 2 week
boot camp camp tunnel in California We away
from our family for 2 and, you know,
15 years old, I think, at the time
where whatever it was. And we fell in
love with the military. Being around those, you
know, those drill instructors the bring corps and
how it was all all... This is this
is awesome.
My brother and I decided, you know what?
Instead of trying to figure out college or
we're gonna play sports. What you what you
think about military. So we had... Literally had
a conversation together about it? And I was
like, well, papa,
both grandparents
pop grandpa grandfather both served and world war
2. D day, vets as well.
Uncles were Vietnam, Green brave, things like that.
You know, my dad was a foreman,
So we have all these men and our
families serve the notes military all combat veterans.
Maybe we should consider that. You know? Or
like, yeah. Let's talk to data about it.
It got to the point where
we were playing with the idea for a
year or so because we weren't old up
to join yet. And I was still riding
bulls and My dad didn't like that. And
I just... You know, I think I turned
17, and I got into a place where
my dad was just like, okay. You have
to make a decision. What do you wanna
do? You you're gonna throw away a professional
baseball career because he had scout from, like,
you know, different colleges that we're looking at
me? He's, like, do wanna do? And I
said, I like what I'm doing. This is...
This is... Just makes me feel alive. I
I am who Am here. Cowboy hat, you
know, the whole 9 yards had that you...
The the hawk feather in it. I was
just... I embraced the whole culture. And I
think there was a moment where I got
into a a fist fight school. With a
guy who made fun of poke fun at
my cowboy if you will. And basically a
how I expel because III beat them up.
And my dad was, like, okay, enough enough
to decide what you're gonna do. And I
said you what, maybe I need to join
the military. Maybe I need a little more
discipline in my life. I even said that
to myself Was like, what did I say
that? And my dad was like, great. And
my brother goes, I'm gonna do it too
when I get old enough. So we we
just committed to that 1. I think that
was that those
coming to a head moments you know, it's
almost like, you know, you're. It's like we've
we've crossed the Rub. We can't really turn
back.
My dad the next thing I know I
think a week after that. He had a
recruiter at our inter table, an Army recruiter,
and I sat down with our recruiter to
explore my options, job, qualifications, etcetera.
He's like you're still in high school. What
do you wanna... You can join the Army
of reserves. I said, let's do it. I
can get some experience. So at 17 years
old. I joined the United States Army Reserves
as a reserve active reserve.
I went a boot camp between my junior
and senior year high school, so I got
that training experience. Came home, went to drill
once per month, so I drove myself at
1 week per month. Down to Camp Pedal
from Morris County. Those 2 or 3 days
at a time that we had to go
do drill. Getting the experience of Pt formation.
I told
my first sergeant, and I said, you know,
I I wanna jump out airplanes to go
to arrange school I wanna be in an
army ranger. That's that's kind of where I
wanna really go do high speed stuff, shoot
guns and, you know, go fight bad guys.
He's, like, yeah, you don't belong in the
reserve. So what I graduated,
I signed the paperwork. I think March the...
That year of my graduation 19 98 to
go active duty. And,
I left home right afterwards. And my brother
I went joined the infantry, became, common infantry
served with the hundred Airborne division out of
the Rock 28 7 infantry regiment as a
mo specialized in moore gun systems, and my
middle brother joined right after me. He became
an Army. He was actually gonna go being
navy seal,
interesting cd enough. But because of his wrestling
in this high school football, Allstate state wrestler
and football player, he had had some me.
So the navy was like, I don't think
you'll make it through buds and he was
like, okay, well, I just go get my
black brain, my my rangers school and he'll
be special operations over here. He did that.
And then my youngest brother decided he wanna
be like his older brother said he joined
the navy when he got old enough. He
became a cor. Wow. So if all 3
of us served during the Global war terrorism.
Almost stayed in. I had 5 years and
2 months active activity 5 years of 5
months equity. I'm gonna stayed in, but there's
a lot of a lot of other stuff
we could talk about for hours hours about
that, but you know, it was a great
run. And you did 3 active tours
combat I did, Kosovo. I went to kosovo
in 2000. I was during the... What they
call operation joint guardian, I was part of
Task force Falcon.
So as humanitarian aid peace keeping operation over
there, of course other things went down that
we participate participated and right after,
the 19 99,
the whole campaign with the Janet
genocide the epic Cleansing that was happening over
that region the Balkans. So they sent us
over there. We relieve 80 second airborne when
we got over there And then I came
home. I got promoted early to E4I, you
know, I did a bunch of schools and
things like that. And I got decided to
re list. So I re for 3 more
years, and started of trade for ranger school,
and then September eleventh happened. Ever all our
schools got postponed, so then we could go.
And we went to work. Went to combat,
Afghanistan it's been some 7 months of there
came home 7 months after I got home,
we moved Iraq and certain Iraq. Even though
you've been trained a high heaven,
and you have a concept of what's going
to happen,
that must have shifted
as you were going through it in real
life.
That's a good... That's a really good way
to put that. That's a great way to
phrase that question is you can train as
much as you want. But until you get
put in the fire. You're really not gonna
know but you're can... You're capable of and
that's so true. It's
real quick before I answer that questions, it's
like, I, you know, I still shoot.
You know, I have guns and I like
to go shoot. And I... My buddy and
I who was a former navy guy. He
said the same thing. He said, you know,
a lot of guys like to carry pistols,
You know, the the culture now is all
about, you know, carrying your you know, concealed
pistol with a laser dot on and every
goes the rage. Every wants to do the
shooting the high speed do the competitive shooting
courses, but majority of people have never been
put in a situation where they've had to
use their weapon in a self defense manner
or Get into a gun fight. A lot
of people don't know what they're capable of
in a gun fight. You can train all
you want to. Until you have that experience,
training sometimes
in the initial phases of bi first altercation,
all of your training
It's almost like it erupt and goes out
the window for a few minutes before it
all kinda comes back and everybody gets focused.
Gun fights are not
what Tv Tv makes them out to be
what people think they are, the movies, even
when you hear stories about other their combat
veteran stock podcast podcasts.
It's it's it usually chaos right out of
the gate. And when you get a rocket
shot at you a grenade thrown in your
con, you guys buddy's got hitting the chest
coming off of, an aircraft into a high
del z by Nike 47, and he hits
a ground gets up keeps running. But until
you start experiencing those things, It's amazing though
how you can easily fall back into training
though. I would say that's where training to
the hilt
does pay dividends even if it's chaos in
that brief moment with the first...
Gunshot is because you naturally
you calibrate
to the chaos. So my first altercation
my very first weird altercation was kosovo on
an operation, I went on, but Didn't get
I didn't get hit. We didn't get engaged
in any gun gunfire, but we almost did.
The second time I got into someone was
in Afghanistan in my first combat operation in
the mountains of Afghanistan with... It's kinda like
the light ski should be able to tell
band. They're pop s us from different hindsight
sites and things like that.
And I had to send more more gun
system. Had said more rounds down range to
stop the the threat and kinda take care
of our guys.
And I remember
hearing the width of some of those ak
rounds flying by, you know, our position and
hitting the dirt. And and then hearing, kinda,
like, the mortar rounds going off in the
distance they were shooting at us. And and
it's interesting is the first moment of chaos.
Everybody's kinda like, going okay, where is it
coming from? Every orient themselves. And then when
everybody clicks.
You wanna talk about the United States military
being, a, well organized mechanism and combat?
It clicks. And when it clicked, it's, like,
we turn into this this precision machine
that was capable of doing our job
proficient. So that
as we are engaged.
It's like,
around rounds of go around you, nobody flinch.
Nobody thinks about the anymore We're just doing
what we're trained to do. We're moving through
it. We're here in our radio renewed communication
and chatter, getting rounds down range, putting he
borders on target, you know, shutting down key
complex systems.
You know, ending the targets that are out
there kinda causing chaos around us. And then
when it's done, it's almost like you get
the adrenaline and dump. And then
that's like, long range stuff. I think when
I got into some stuff in Iraq when
I got into is, close course stuff in
Iraq a little little bit of stuff, ambush
things like that.
It gets even more in intense and it...
I I can't even explain it. So it's
it's, like,
go back to bull writing. It's most more
an advanced version of
that wild new introduction to chaos and unknowns.
I remember the con that we were all
got ambushed, and the 3 grenades they threw
into the conway, hit couple of my buddies.
They got travel. They didn't die. They're were
good. Thing thank god it. But it's crazy
how you... It feels different when you're really
close and personal with these guys.
And it's... You're facing the ultimate evil. You're
truly facing
the worst of the worst when it comes
to human beings. And I think that's where
I'm glad we train as as well as
we do is because when you were dealing
with that, there's only 1 or 2 outcomes
there. Either they're dying for the country or
you are. So at the end of the
day, it pays off the to sweat a
lot more in training so that you... You
know, again, that's saying goes you bleed less
word. I think that's where what relief stuck
with me was I can still feel the
the energy or the emotions of that situation
20 years later of those situations that I've
got. Yeah.
There are people that all they wanted to
do was was kill us. It doesn't matter.
That... And they were using innocent people. I,
And and then using women, pregnant women to
blow up our checkpoints. I crazy to experience
the worst of the worst in the world
in a very intimate setting like that, and
it changes your whole outlook of life. Some
answer. Hope that answer your question. Yeah. No.
Absolutely. I I think
I am fascinated by
how the military handles
basically,
they're... The job you have to create killing
machines. You... That's what... That's the job. Sure.
And then how do you
take those killing machines?
Like, oh, how does someone sit you down
and prepare you,
hey, what, it's... I remember when I bought
my first gun.
And when I lap my first gun, I
really had to sit with myself and think,
am I willing to kill someone someday because
owning this
having this
means that that answer has to be yes,
or I don't... I shouldn't own this thing
because of reality, and in some respects, I
think even having a car is like that.
Sure. You're in a car, that is it
kills a lot of freaking people. You know,
It's that same
thing. So
I'm curious about
how does the military
specifically as in this case, the army
sit you down and say,
here's the deal.
You are going to be putting scenarios where
everything that you were raised to believe, which
is don't Thou, Not kill. Yeah. How are
you... And, whether you're religious or not, that's
sort of to the golden rule isn't ingrained
in all of us, how does 1
flip that switch other than, I guess saying
the psychology of their bad, we're good.
And then how do you
un.
That
when you come home.
Well, that a lot of questions all 1.
It's good. I'm am gonna let that perk
late in my mind so I can deliver
good enough
information for for you and people.
I I think you have to be...
I would say that people that are built
with the... From a different fabric that joined
the military in the... And choose the combat
arms at jobs and it was They know.
You know already. I I grew up again,
in the eighties watching
18 was 1 of my favorite shows going
up. They were, you know, the green raise.
I got, you know, got away with all
that. I loved different shows like that. I
love learn of military movies that I watched.
Remember top gun came out all of it.
We already inherit the... Delta. So Chuck Norris.
Like, it was, like, always cool to see
these movies,
you knew though growing up that if you
join the military, the military a mechanism for
combat.
That's the overall I would say theme. I
think if you don't know that, then,
you've been living under a Iraq. But the
military is designed for warfare. They're designed for
protecting
and defending and assert offensive as as we
need to for a purpose.
So when we join, I had stories already
from my grandfather being a d day vet
fighting the Nazis to my dad being in
Vietnam, Cor in Vietnam, my uncle who was
a green Brain in Vietnam, Mac b song
specific, which is a little bit more elite
group of that that that era
hearing some of the worst stories over Scotch
that I would drink with him. Like, it's
it's amazing as when you become old enough
to to choose that, You know you're getting
into. Now you can choose jobs in the
military that will kinda keep you little bit
more away from
that type of environment. However, we're all first
and foremost rifle.
So you all go to basic combat trading
for a reason. And global war terrorism has
proven that's necessity because we had non combat
arms, Mo is getting engaged in firefight.
There are guys I know that don't have
Ci b's like me and other fellows, they
combat treatment badge. We earned from mitigation comp
with the.
They have their own version of that... But
their west was like supply or they were
maybe a cook or they they are put
in position in war where they had to
defend themselves of camps brothers, etcetera.
So I think the Army doesn't ask you
or sit you down and tell you, hey,
guess what? They just know
that you better choose something
that you're okay with.
Because if you become...
Like, I knew when I joined the, my
job would be to learn how to kill
people. I understand that. Period. It's infantry. That's
our job to destroy the targets that are
put in front us for the enemies of
the United States of America.
Hundred percent get that. Grown up as a
devout Catholic. Right? Grown up in the buy
that we're Dal shall Kill. That was 1
where I had to actually learn getting that
a military. Learning about... Well, what what is
the difference then? Because did I just do
something really bad? Even though I wanna know
I'm defending my country. I joined selfless served
the oath to this nation to my family,
I did it under god, I did it
for my family, my brother and my loved
ones. And I found out the distinction is
that it is not the same as just
murdering someone. There is a completely different
parameter that's there when it comes to the
defense of one's nation for a very specific
cause,
from for Morals values for Freedom, Liberties. There's
I was like, okay. I was okay with
that after after I learned that through some
of the chaplain I talked to in the
military after our first combat rotation, but it's
interesting. It affects everybody differently. So I'm not
gonna say that I didn't have my own
rage issues coming home and wanting to... Like,
I like to fight, and I wanted to
get get into some of these things that
you're and there. But everybody has their own
experience in war and everybody's affected differently more.
It's not 1 size fits all with post
traumatic stress or combat trauma or whatever it
is because I know guys
that have seen death and destruction and aren't
are not
as they're not as broken if you will,
if as you would think they would be.
If anything, getting out of the military going
into the second part question. How do you
d program or get someone ready? I think
leaving in the military and not doing we
job anymore it it causes more stress on
a shoulder
than the lore sometimes can. I think it's
like, we tie our identities to that job.
We become
part of this brotherhood, we we we unite
for 1 purpose of 1 mission.
Talked to Navy Seal about this. He goes,
yeah. He goes, you missed it because
you had guys the left and right of
you that you could trust with your life,
and you guys were all focused on the
same mission and you guys were selfless.
In a civilian world, everyone's selfish.
Everyone's out for themselves. So I think that's
a twofold answer there whereas nobody prepares you
for what you're gonna have to do. That's
what training is for. And that is what
your oath is. That's what you swear to.
I'm willing to defend those that cannot defend
themselves from the rights, liberties and freedoms that
we cherish and hold valuable in our in
in, in our world.
And I'm willing up to including giving my
life and or taking day life to do
that. You come to terms with that.
And
my brother and I talked about it. He,
you know, has had a lot more direct
action because he was a ranger
experience with done fights and killing people bad
eyes. I had my own fair share. We'd
we talk about it. He was completely affected
a lot differently than I was. So
And then when we both go, you know
what, we miss it because it it affects
us trying to go to school. You get
out you're your older person, you're going to
college with your younger kids and you're sitting
there and you're like, I admit you're like
I... This is what I am now. Okay.
I kinda... I wanna go back and do
that because I had at lease the structure
and the discipline, and I had team, and
I had all this mission is purpose. And
a lot of guys that served, you know,
you listened to to least some of these
over operators that get out 20 plus years
later. They're on these podcasts. Sean Ryan talks
with a lot of these guys etcetera. They
say the same thing. It's like, I... Who
am I now.
I leave and now I don't know when
I'm gonna... Like, that I was that was
me. I... The job was me. I was
a delta operator. Was a ranger. I was
a seal. I was a green ray. I
was an infantry men, airborne infantry. I was
now when what am I supposed to be.
And that I think messes with a lot
of men... A guy, especially to the guys,
their heads because men tied in legacy to
jobs they do,
and they don't know how to elegantly transition.
I think it takes
having the right sports systems in place and
having the right people around you that can
continue you and push you in the right
direction. So you realize that is not who
you are. That's what you did, and you
can apply and par those skills and those
attributes to other jobs or the things in
the world, and you can still live the
same life of principle and carry the scars
that you carry
without actually having to worry about whether or
not you are living the like you were
meant to live. And I think that's the
biggest piece to it is you get out,
you go through the process agreement, lost buddies
of mind. You go through the process of
the death you've seen
process of about taking a life.
You process that. You pray on it. You
you heal from me. You go to psychology...
The psychology. You do all the therapies. You
do as much as you know you feel
what we're drawn to. To just
understand it and how it's affecting you as
a human, and then you
confront
the demons of it, and you allow that
to resolve
big parts of those stresses so you can
actually
move forward in life, and you can show
up and perform in relationships and get other
jobs.
Some veterans don't have that. They miss that
step, and that's why you see them struggling.
Is they don't have that, and they're they're
they they don't have someone that can
confront it, push them through and make them
experience. They don't wanna look at the demons
anymore. They just let the demons hide in
the corner, let it affect them and they
just kinda live the life kinda
unfortunately, in a bad place and where a
lot of us go
22 a days unacceptable. Right? But that those
people are doing that. And
So it's it's interesting. It's very interesting to
experience. That's for sure. Yeah. And I have
some friends, unfortunately, that are that do struggle.
Certainly.
It... It's it's weird. Know I read a
lot about, especially the younger generation, and I
get what they're saying.
Getting, you know, that we don't wanna fight
these wars,
and
the thing that's complicated about it. Look. Nobody
nobody wants
to go to war. Nobody wants that. Even
if you're raised... I mean, look, I saw
Top gun and I was ready to say.
Who wasn't. I was on the edge white
z the time. Yeah. Right? Right think who
doesn't get...
That's why the military helps pay for movies
like that because it it gets us Right
fight a recruiting tool.
Absolutely it's us site. Yeah. Now we are
on... We are in a new era,
And I get the the understanding of why
should I be sent to fight these battles.
I get that on 1 hand,
certainly. And
but the unfortunate reality is even in 20
24,
nothing changes with humanity
it just doesn't, and there's always gonna be
somebody out there wanting to kill you. Not
you the royal you. Let's just use United
States of America as the you. Do you?
It's it's just... That's the reality. And if
there aren't people
willing... That willing to to to take that
fight to take up that sacrifice,
then
there's big trouble ahead. There is.
I know that
intellectually,
Yes. It's hard to explain that. And I
get... That's like I get both sides of
the argument. Sure. I do take but but
it sort of leaves out.
Reality just because there's a bunch of people
that don't wanna do this. Doesn't mean it's
not gonna keep having.
Right. Exactly. And I such a good point
you brought up because I've had this in
my mind constantly the last year and a
half.
I hear it all the time across social
media posts and people legacy military families. Everyone
is saying don't join the military It's the
worst leadership ever, you don't go find global
general awards. It's like, okay, guys.
Gals. I understand
that argument. I do too. But here's the
other side. Like, you you'll probably appreciate this.
Here's my argument for it.
We have never not had
greedy political
ul motives
in any conflict. We've ever been a part
of. Ever.
If anyone thinks that we've ever fought 1
single board that has been 100 percent, all
altruistic based on Freedom Liberty and Happiness.
Period and a story America.
They're delusional. Yes. To delusional. The difference now
in 20 24
is that it because of social media and
technology advancements and global changes.
We are now
more exposed to the other side of the
veil than we have ever been before. We
see the ambitions of politicians and greedy corporations
and bad public public figures. And we see
children dying and we see what the what
the results are. Yeah. We see that.
All of it combined together is just being
shoved in our face all 1 time. Mh.
World war 2, there was motives. Vietnam,
hundred percent. There was a lot of. I
mean, all the desert storm. All, we
galore terrorism. It's... I'm gonna say it my
war as well, it just
I look at this way is
you made a very valid point I wanna
just bring that home a little bit more
is. If we don't have people who are
still willing
to
sacrifice
and actually step up to the challenge and
to serve,
not for that But for the other factors
of why we all serve to begin with.
We all, every person is ever served military,
I guarantee you awesome. Why did you join?
I the majority of them, I would say,
Not now. But the more Would say it's,
like, because I wanted to to to do
something
through something greater than me. I wanted to
selfless serve
my community. I wanted to give back to
my country that I was born in. I
I've heard so many real really patriotic things.
There are some people like, I went to
college money.
That's them. Yeah.
Majority? Directly, the military certainly turns toward the
poor and says, hey, you're our people, and
that's fucked up. We all know that. Yes.
We do. We do. And that's not... Yeah.
Because it's not like a rich, the whole,
ultra wealthy or I put their kids please.
I think there was a, gentleman I I
spoke with the other day too. He talked
about. He said, Yeah. That's why it... And,
oh, yeah was the navy guy. He says
the United Kingdom is less likely to go
to war He's writing in a dis...
Because he's a Phd
for history, and he's right in dis rotation
on why America is always gonna be primed
to go to war more than, let's say
the Uk. And that's because They already have
status in the armed forces over there. These
guys are all for royal families are all
wealthy. So when they go to where they
come home, they they kinda go back to
their normal life, but when we go to
war, we can be poor. We come home
and we get these out boys and these
parking spots and we get always these accolades
it... So that could always will put us
on this competition agenda where we're always gonna
be in position always gonna fight these. We're
more likely to fight worse. That's 1 piece
of it. I thought that was pretty brilliant
way to put it. Yeah. It's really interesting.
The other piece to you go back to
your question the or your thought here was
If we don't have people those still willing
to serve their country to say, look. I
don't like this over here, but I still
know there's good here. And I wanna serve
this still to protect it.
You're right. We're
we're dire straits.
If at some point, it's gonna get worse
than it as now where we're only gonna
continuously have bad people in the military, they're
gonna deter aid it with all of their
agendas.
And then we're gonna have good people getting
out, and we're no longer gonna have a
force that's gonna be worthy of defending our
our borders, and our 4 policies, etcetera, We're
not gonna be able to be what we
once were. And and then we're gonna be
a place where now we're vulnerable.
And we're capable... You know, in a position
where people can do a lot of bad
things to us, and it's gonna deteriorate the
United States from within, which is the only
way you can take us down. And I
think that's the argument there Is like, Don't
wanna go get die for in a affordable
more. Dude. Nobody wants to die or anymore.
I my buddy the guy had buy an
Rpg and I wrecked didn't wanna die for
for Iraqi freedom. You know what I mean?
But He did. So
he did what he was asked to do
because we don't have the choice we sign
up. We're not like, I won't go to
Afghanistan, but I won't go to Iraq. It
doesn't happen that way. We were gonna go
where we're needed.
If you can go in with the idea
and the mindset that I'm doing something that
for the greater good here, even if it's
a short period of time,
maybe we needed to start challenging
veterans and start challenging other capable men and
women to
at least
get into the fight for a short period
of time. Really quality leadership back into the
military can actually change the culture
back to a place where we are war
fighters, not
worried about people's feelings, and we can actually
sustain the military until we can figure out
how to fix this political debacle that we've
got going on and we can change it.
From that perspective,
you need the military to be strong. And
I think that's the piece And I I'll
throw this I'm gonna throw listen to hat
here as I'm in fact in the process
of potentially re listing to the military. So
at 44 years old as a,
grown up in a patriotic household,
love my. I love, you know, what I've
was able to be born into. I was
able to grow up in. I've served my
country I've seen the ups and downs and
good about. I know what the military is.
So I'm going in with my eyes wide
open. I'm not an idiot.
But I'd being called to be pulled in
my heart, something's I'm my heart time I
need to go back and I've talked to
so many people like, we need good quality
people to come back in to help... I
would say it's almost like, prop up the
failing leadership, prop up the failing policies and
kinda get us back on track.
And I've talked to some other bets that
are, like, I'm willing to do it too.
So there are a lot of veterans like,
you know what?
Will they take me? And, yes, at your,
you know, they're... They'll age waiver you if
you've already served. They subtract your active duty
by your biological age and they make you
that age. They age waiver. You past the
physical you can get the contract you want,
and go back a server you wanna serve.
So I'm willing to do that because I
feel like we need mentorship for these younger
generations going in right now. We need older
guys who had the combat experience the leadership
experience. I've been running my own business almost
as 15 years. I can bring it in
into this perspective were to help mold some
of these younger kids coming in, so they
don't get lost in the pipeline of the
military and fall victim to
anything but what they were signing up to
do.
And I think that... It's gonna... But it's
gonna require
immense, sacrifice and personal courage. And require people
to set their egos down and go, you
know what? Let me let me be a
little bit more objective with what, you know,
this is intel here. So I'm glad you
brought that up. Yeah. And especially because a
lot of the people that are being recruited
in. Unfortunately, are bringing in
agendas that
I do not represent when used... When you
decide to serve and tell me if I'm
incorrect here, but when you decide to serve
the military, you're serving all of the United
States of America, not just your favorite religion,
not your favorite,
you know, color, not your favorite creed or
your favorite sexual orientation or you
are
protecting and serving the entirety
of the United States of America
and its constitution And yeah everything that that
stands for. Yeah. And I think, unfortunately,
there was...
I don't know how many. I don't track
of the stats, but there is a faction
of military people that are coming in that
are, like, I'm gonna fight and make sure
that none of those people ever get to
lit... You know, that of thing. And that's
dangerous. Is is at the point.
No. You don't need to do. And that's
the other thing you don't need to
sometimes
The
confrontation to change things that you feel is
not
not voting well for something that you value
or cherish, doesn't need to be so direct
action. You know, you don't need to go
into and Be like I need to combat
this leader who's acting this way. Sometimes getting
in there and doing your job exceptionally well,
creating real
leadership transformation by exam... By an example of
it, and it in... It's almost like encouraging
other the people to follow suit through your
actions and not your words, right? Deeds not
words,
that naturally will evolve
whatever
dysfunction you might have noticed going on in
there. You don't
See. I think people get to help at
on it Well, again, it's like, they they
have this, like, righteous purpose and they go,
you know what? It... But is it a
good righteous purpose? Where is it just a
personal thing
that may... There are a lot of things
the military is doing. I don't like either.
I'm... But my job is not to go
in there and go, hey, you, you can't
do that. My job is, hey... If I
go back in, I'm gonna be the best
version of me as this guy that I
have become, this leader that I... Whenever I
can include and share with these young men
and women, and I'm going to let that.
Birth,
whoever they are, so that that naturally influences
the ranks. And I think... But there is
some moments where you do have step up
and be confrontational and go, you know what?
No. We're not gonna worry about that right
now because I actually diminishes the fighting capabilities
here and here's why, and then you go
after that that way.
Discernment is the key muscle and that needs
to be work. But the United States... Will
we swear to oath, we swear oath to
the United States
constitution, and it's... That oath never ends. Period.
Even if we get out, it's to the
constitution and what that... Like you said, with
that encompasses. The the right, the the life
Liberty and Pursuit of happiness, all of it.
The bill of writes, you know, for a
second or 4 all in the tenth, we
are swearing it oath.
That's our legion to that.
Period... Not politics, not really. To a man
in the office. Right. Not to a type
of person who's running a this will, you
know, entity over here. Not to a faction
of people who are extreme on 1 side
or the other of the aisle
to that.
And I think we've lost or may because
of that, because we've become hypo and hyper
tribal that we've been and that everybody is
focused on their own candidates. It's become selfish.
People are losing
resiliency when it comes to emotional maturity
people don't like the way things are said.
They don't like the way people are saying
them. They don't like certain things.
I think that's the problem. And we have
to defend it. But you do... Here's the
thing. You only change the military. It self
we're on that subject. You've only changed the
dysfunction of the military that's happening from the
inside. With leaders who
understand. Yeah. Can't do it from the outside.
With leaders. You can't you can spend all
day long on Twitter x or wherever they
call it. You can spend all day on
their
complaining all day long and talking about this
and that and post articles and re retweeted
and yelling and tell people don't do it.
It's the worst thing ever.
That's not gonna change it.
It's just not going to. You gotta be
willing to put... You gotta put skin in
the. And if you're not willing to do
that, honestly, it's just all gas it's just
coming hot gas and granted, there are some
people are making some changes through their efforts.
But again, I've I've seen more smoke and
than I've seen action, and I'm like, guys.
We we gotta step up.
Yeah. It's much easier to talk than it
is for action. That's the easiest thing in
the world. Even and if you... Even if
you've done it, Even You've done it already.
You've paid your dues. So what I have
too. I'm willing to go do it again.
Yeah. I'm willing to.
Wiley, you're fun to talk with.
Thanks
Appreciate that.
Tell people how they can find you and
there may be some emails coming your way
to talk to you about
you know, everything that we've discussed here Sure.
From your perspective because I, I can't speak
for you, obviously. So tell people about how
they can find you if they want to.
Yeah. I I mean, I threw together our
website a couple years ago, W g dot
com. It's got just all the really interesting
philosophies. It touches on some of the stuff
you and I talked about today.
Videos, etcetera. Just a place for people to
kinda get a 1 dimensional
understanding a little bit about who I am.
I... I'm more of an interpersonal kinda guy.
I like conversations on phones and emails, and...
I'm not a
transactional person. So I'm not... This is not
about... I don't sell myself. I don't go
out go, hey, I a business. You wanna
work with me? This is not my... That's
not... However ever operated. It's always been just
relationship, dynamics, building relationships, meeting people,
you know, right people will always be the
right people the right time timing, I'm not,
you know, stress about that either. So I...
You know, what people think that, oh, gosh
is another guy who's just out selling some
coaching because that's not what I do either.
This reality is I am here to just
share insights and philosophies and understanding about what
might be
you know, hindering people's performance and and and
and messing with their lives and helping them
challenge the status quo challenge what they think
is right wrong or different or comfortable or
uncomfortable and and realize there's so much more
that you are missing if you don't have
the right types of of people confronting those
realities with you. So Y mcgraw dot com,
I have my account. At twitter at y
mcgraw. I'm hardly on there, but... You I
sometimes jump on there have some interesting
back and forth with people post podcast podcasts
and stuff like this. Linkedin gen dot com.
I have that too. Yes
I'm trying to think all the social media
stuff I put together. I spent 12 years
behind the scenes without any any digital presence.
So it's kinda... Those were the days. Those
those are the days. The pan pandemic changed
all that for us, but,
those are the 3 spots people can find
me, and of course, my contact information is
there if
anybody, anybody wants to just chat. I'm I'm
always open for it. Yeah. And I'll, I'll
put links on hey human podcast dot com
as well. And I really appreciate your time.
You're great to chat with. I... You have
an open door anytime you wanna come on
show.
I really appreciate you happy. It's been fun.
We're to maybe doing it again soon. Yeah.
I talk about this stuff all day. Well,
I'm happy to go round too. But I
mean, you're fun to talk to you as
well. You ask really good questions that really
allow more information to kinda pour out It's
good. Thank you. Have a beautiful day. You
too. Thank you for listening everybody. Bye.
See you. Bye. Bye.
Rate to review and subscribe to hey human
podcast podcasts on itunes. By if I I
hurt whoever you get your podcast.
Thanks. Bye.