Hey, humans how's it going?
Thanks listening to another episode of hey human
podcast.
This is episode 04:11, and my guests are
author Bonnie Tiff and
author journalist Robin Flanagan again.
Together, they wrote a book called climbing out
an adventure in red discovering life after a
loss.
It's about 3 time cancer survivor Bonnie after
the sudden death of her husband. True story.
She decided to summit mount Kill jar
And in doing so, she discovers the healing
power of friendship, self love and resilience.
It's a great book. I really enjoyed reading
it, shout out to my best, ellen Severe
who has a book club and Bonnie and
Robin we're a part of that.
Ellen decided to read the booked in her
club and Bonnie and Robin did Zoom in
conversation. Really cool that they do that. If
you're looking for a new book in your
book club, they are open to that. Really
cool. Robin also the author of the celebrated
book, m is for mindful.
And a hundred things to do in Rochester.
Big news. I just got back from the
Portland Horror Festival in Portland, Oregon.
Where I showed my film the first
to the audiences there, and it was well
received, and I came home with the Trump
loyal award
for the film, really exciting. It's a special
effects award in service to the film. So
in other words,
art... I think it literally translates something about
the the trick of the eye. So it's
a it's an award that honors
using special effects in service too and a
twist of the story, that kind of thing.
So very cool. Huge shout out to Brian
and Gwen
Ka, who are the founders of Portland H
and do all of the people that were
there. Oh my gosh. I had so much
fun. And the movies I saw, were incredible.
I saw so many fantastic movies. Check out
my social media because I go into detail
about everything and
Yeah. Very cool. Alright. General stuff. I'm on
Patreon at Susan Ruth. You can check out
hey human podcast dot com for links and
Learn more about my guests in the show.
Check out susan root dot com to learn
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And thank you for listening.
Be well, be kind,
be love, and here we go.
Bonnie ts and Robin Flanagan again. Well come
to hey human.
Hi. Thanks for having us. Thank you.
It may get a little confusing for our
listeners, but hang in there, and hopefully, it'll
all work out.
I learned of both of you because my
best friend Ellen
has a book group,
and they...
Their group did the book climbing out about
Bonnie
experience climbing Mount K jar.
And there's a lot of backstory
before I get into any of that. What
I like to do on this show is
ask my guests,
where they grew up what shaped them as
people and then go from there. Robin? Where
are you from? I spent my first 8
years in Maryland, but from 9 to 17,
I lived in Sedona, Arizona. So I feel
like that's where I'm from. My formative years.
I started writing though, when I still lived
in Maryland. My first story, I wrote at
6
It was called Santa Claus and the Magic
pencils,
and I still have it in a box
and my attic somewhere.
But I've been writing ever since. I feel...
I always say I definitely don't take for
granted, the fact that I always knew what
I wanted to do. I always wanted to
be a writer for a living. And
so then when I went to
Sedona,
I guess, part of my entrepreneurial spirit. I
used to collect cans in my wagon and
turn them in for money.
I was a member of the sunshine
sales club, which meant,
I went door to door and sold gift
wrap and greeting cards and got a dollar
per item
And I just was always looking for ways
to
I don't know Have to kind of make
money and be on my own and be
independent and
and even though I grew up in sedona
with all those gorgeous rocks,
I did not come from a family of
Hike.
So I did not start hiking
until I left Sedona. I... Luckily, I go
back every year, and now I'm kind of
trying to make up for lost time.
Bonnie? Well, I grew up in a very
small town in
the southern tier of New York state
And the name of the town is Kenneth
steel.
Our claim to Fame in Canvas.
We have... We we spell up on a
hill
the town Can see is spelled
in Evergreen tree. With very charming.
It is the world's largest living sun.
Grew grew up in a medium sized fan.
Like, grew up in the 50 and sixties.
And
grew up with mom and dad,
2 sister and a brother. There were 4
of us. We lived right in town, literally
2 houses away from her school.
Would it be in a small town and
in that era,
everyone is around you. We had lot... We
had a lot of family and And
and cousin who also live them town and
you just sort of grow up with everybody,
even your school people.
People get close. I mean, in just a
couple of weeks. I'm gonna be heading down,
should celebrate my hip.
Yeah.
High school graduation. With a lot of friends
who are still staying in contact with.
And, I mean, I currently live about
60 miles north of that town. So I
didn't move very far away.
Did you always stay within the proximity of
where you grew up or did you ever
live elsewhere.
I all all did say in this area.
Clearly, that's where you meant Bill?
Yes. Yet. I I did not meet bill
in hand steel, but I met bill. Bill
and I worked together. Up the up in
the rochester to New York area. Robin, did
you
know about Bonnie
being bonnie being a widow and her experience
yet? Or is that something that came later?
I definitely knew part of the story, but
there's no way I knew as much as
I did after I grilled and grilled and
grilled.
When we were doing interviews after the climb.
It was a very, very long in... Process
and she
exhibited a lot of patience working with me.
Was that hard for you Bonnie to reopen
those.
Memories and to talk... I know that you
like to keep his memory alive, obviously, but
jeep... Was it hard for you to really
go back and
talk about the night that he passed away?
That particular piece, of course, was very hard.
You now, in through through much of
Robin asking questions,
we both cried a lot. We we have
we had a lot of moments of that.
But,
absolutely, you know, we are talking about the
night
that my husband bill died and How died.
That's certainly hard to
hard to talk about.
Yeah.
You were... You bold had experiences with cancer.
And Bonnie, you had it twice? I did.
I did. I had I had experienced
breast cancer twice. Yeah. Just a few years
actually about 4 years before we climb told
general. And you're totally cancer free now. Since
that, I actually had 1 more 1 more
cancer experience,
Once again, breast cancer.
Right this minute I am cancer free. Good.
Yeah. And Robin?
I was married at the time of our
climb, and my husband was also a, a
cancer survivor
at that time. He's
he has since had it 3 times as
well, it has... Yes. Affected us both pretty
pretty significantly.
And we actually met before the climb. We
met while training for the climb. The 2
of you. Met U. Bonnie and I met
about a year before we climbed Kill jar.
In 2008,
we climbed, so we met in early 2007.
And this was a group of people... The
support group for people who have had some
sort of experience with cancer.
Yes. Our our entire group, either either someone
had had cancer or their were climbing for
someone. Someone close to them who had had
cancer.
So as Rob just mentioned, as we were
getting ready to 4 kilo jar,
we, y'all we would meet about once a
week, sometimes more often than that, but we
would need about once a week and get
together as many, you know, as many people
as possible and get together mostly in in
the local our local area... Local rochester and
a finger lakes area,
and we would...
That's and that's how we train.
Let's talk about the decision to climb a
mountain like Mount Ke,
what
for both of you, what drew you to
that?
Decision, which I consider insane.
I'm a 1 and done, so I sort
of consider it insane to at this point.
Yeah. Many people do. Many people did. Well,
for me, it was my husband... My husband,
Bill and I
outdoors was was what we did. You know,
when our daughter was growing up, we renewed.
We hike we cross country speed, and we
can't... And so we did a lot of
that stuff. And then as we got older,
we got a little more adventurous
and we would go. We went up to
Alaska a couple times on a canoe trip
a rafting trip We
did a 10 day backpack packing trip in
Greenland,
we did all of the big trips through
a local outfitters center. So we got...
We got very... We became very good friends
with our local
after
bill Nye.
His name is Rick and Rick will called
me every a few months just check in
and see how our was doing 1.
And he would always end with
I'll,
whenever you're ready to go on another trip,
let me know, you know, I'll take good
care of you.
So I had been looking at his brochures
and kinda of decided on this Romania gone
to Romania, and that looked like a
I looks like that would be a safe
I would be in a hotel room or
that breakfast room and
and that it wasn't camping, but but it
was climbing and it was. So I'm doing
a lot of hype and so I thought
that sounded good. The day that I got
ready to call him, and tell him that
I was gonna
sign up for that. I happened to pick
up his brochure and I had noticed
before a letter that he had on the
back of the road brochure, and talked about
how
everybody's affected my cancer,
and he's the the bottom line was,
I'm not sure what this is gonna look
like.
But
at some point,
we will all end up at the top
of Mount telling and gerald other.
So I picked up the phone.
I call him he answered.
And I said Rep I just read your
letter.
I have no idea what you have up
to sleep this time, but count me in.
Owen, by the way I wanna go to
lighting to.
Since I got to go Romania. I did
I did I did that about... I think
about 8 months before throwing general fine. And
how old are you at that 0.57.
Alright.
And Robin, what was your inspiration?
My story is a little bit more boring.
I was sort of a tag along
My husband was Patrick. He has a brother
named Matt. Matt worked for the American cancer
society at the time and was good good
friends with Rick and was going on the
trip as well. And so Patrick decided to
go on the trip because his brother was
going.
At the time, III
wasn't going with them. And then I think
just over time,
it just sounded more citing. I like adventure.
I like to hike. We both loved to
travel. So it sort of was more like
it checked off all the boxes for me,
and I thought it would be a good
a good experience to have. During this time,
you were working on your own memoir? Is
that correct? Okay. Right. So I was working
on a memoir. I had a,
a tough time with infer fertility. I'd had
4 in vitro fertilization processes and 3 pregnancies
that I lost. And so I was kind
of writing about that, but getting very...
I was kind of staying in the sadness
of that and struggling with that. I was
keeping alive something I was trying to move
on from.
And after we got back,
Patrick and I were having breakfast,
and
he said, you know, why don't you write
about Bonnie?
And so it really is because it he
said that that this even exists
and
that was a Saturday morning.
And as I as I write in the
author's note of the book,
I I thought about it waited till Monday,
called Bonnie and just kind of sp this
this is what I wanna do. Dah all.
I just kinda sp it out,
talked about how we had been eating breakfast
when the idea came up. And Bonnie said,
Robin on Saturday morning, probably around the time
you had breakfast.
I was praying, and I said, god, I
think it's time
for me to tell my story, and Robin,
god brought you to me, and I... We
just started crying, or I did, I started
crying, and then I was kind of laughing
to myself that this thing that seemed so
selfish had turned into divine intervention, you know,
sort of
but it just... I feel like it was
meant to be.
It's it's about really being present in one's
lives so you recognize those moments because either
1 of you could have
issued that.
What you you moved forward.
And Robin said she talked about
being mir in a way of of your
grief, and I'm so sorry for all of
that. That's... I can't even imagine, but I'm
happy you have a daughter.
Yes. Thank you. But there was an... Something
that I wrote down in my notes of
that that, Bonnie had said, you have to
stop sinking.
I thought that line was so
powerful.
And so Bonnie, you as well
kept seeing the sinking end of the ship
instead of the the
forest and the trees and the island you
were heading toward. Do you wanna talk about
that a little bit? The sinking part, and
I think that's when you have especially at
7 months.
I think that's pretty normal.
You go down, you have to. I I
honestly think that what saves you
is because you you have to retreat
for for a certain amount of tone.
Truly with something like that. There's no question
that it
1 of the things that I often said
that probably kept me going is it put
you in shock.
And it's the shot that gets you through
a lot of things. And it's almost
like, as you're coming out of that, and
I I maintained it took me close the
18 months to really move out of that.
And it's not like it's not as though.
I lived in sadness all it. I didn't.
I didn't... I have wonderful people around me.
I had wonderful family around me. I have
people who put your care of me people
who I could bounce off
what whenever
whenever I need them.
But I think the idea of saying that
I I was thinking. I think that's almost
when I when I got to the point
where I began to come out of that
mode a shot. When I
can't they began to feel things again. Like
I said, I don't want anybody to get
the impression that, 0II
was just sad and
horrified, you know, through that through those 18
months. I wasn't,
but it did take me that long to
took me. And I think I mentioned in
the book took the 18 months stuff. Opened
up that closet door and go through his
closed. And when I did, it was a
Sunday,
because I threw on a couple of his
shirts because I knew his long.
And,
then I could talk to him about it.
And I could not have done that too
much similar than.
And that being said, you know, we're all
different human beings.
I mean, some people,
you know, that's certainly not the way that
they would do it. 1 of the things
that I often like to say about the
book is the book is
not a how to book. The book is
a book of hope.
It's not.
It's not a book that everyone is gonna
do it. The the same way.
I think it definitely reads hopeful.
It didn't seem Mir and sorrow at all.
Firstly, I think that the the arc of
the story is so well done.
The pacing and the arc of the story,
just as a person that likes to read
books.
Yes. That what happened did an amazing job
is that. Yeah. It's really great. What I
think is so important even if people are
think,
Don't I don't wanna read a book about
climbing a mountain and I don't care about
that. It's really not
about that. I mean, it's the metaphor. It's
the...
Yes. It's the everest that lives within all
of us, all although it is Kill Jar,
but that's the thing.
And grief
treats everyone differently.
And you never know when it will rear
your, you know, rear its head. Grief could
come on.
We've all experienced grief, and we know that
you might be totally fine for months or
even years, and then something a smell or
a look or whatever it is will set.
Say you off, and then you just have
to be in it. Yes.
Yes.
Yeah. Can you get eye. I mean, that...
I love what we just said because you
do have to be we can't deny it
because
that's when
You will spiral back down. Yeah.
Yeah. It doesn't release if you deny it.
You have to get it out. I I
think. I mean, you don't have to... Everybody's
on their own journey, but to me, it
feels like if you push it back down,
it's just gonna cause other problems.
Robin, would you learn about grief through this?
Oh, wow.
What did I learn about grief?
Well,
I think
I think what I learned the most
is Bonnie is
is 1 of the strongest, if not the
strongest person, I've ever met.
Her attitude, the way she approaches things.
Separately, this kind of a tangent thing happening
here and this
particular question you're asking me as far as
what I learned.
But with my relationship with Bonnie. So I'm...
My next book I'm working on is a
research based memoir on religious trauma.
And as you know from reading the book,
it's has a lot to do with her
faith.
And there is no way,
you know, 20 years ago, you couldn't say
the word God without me leaving the room
and tears.
And so here's a woman who
we talk about faith a lot. I write
about it a lot, and she wasn't threatening
once.
So she's somebody who lives...
Her face. And so I know this isn't
really about grief, but I feel like what
I learn about it is just her approach
So I think that, you know, I I
haven't gone through anything like she has. I
haven't
lost a partner, I, you know, in the
same way or even remotely the same. But
I think what I learned is
that you can still be strong and loving
toward the person you lost and keep that
person alive and there's just so much more
that I would look to her for how
to
you know,
I guess, cope with my own feelings.
There was never any doubt. There was just
grateful.
I don't know, Bonnie, You might say I'm
I'm not hitting the mark here, but... Oh,
you're hitting. Yeah. No. You're look got it.
Yeah.
I would I could only hope to be
that strong.
I think some people feel
grief and shame
around
their grief, Bonnie, you talk a little bit
about your feelings around
falling in love again. And
so it's interesting
it's an interesting trap we can get in
as humans
where
we start feeling grief and and mad at
ourselves for letting go of our grief. What
does that mean? Are we disrespect people?
And then that becomes its own vicious circle,
how is that conversation in your head, Bonnie?
You know, I I think I never felt
that at all. And 1 of the things
that I am blessed to be able to...
To say is,
you know, when bill died, of course, it
was very sudden.
And
to but looking looking back on what we
had and what we did and how we
lived our lives. I had no left.
So to me, that was that was just
so important.
1 of the things that I...
Susan that I say this a lot because
it's spent a number of iterations that out
my went. Through on the books so, I'm
not sure if this was in the book
or not.
It may it may have been
But
1 of the things that made me particularly
feel good. 1 of...
Or my my tent made who
is sue in the book.
We hike every Friday together. It's
times Saturdays too. But every Friday, she would...
She and a few other people come up
to my house and and we were hike.
And,
so... And we hiked the long 1 day,
we were... When I
first began to to date, Jim.
She just
very quietly
said,
You know that this means that you've had
a really good marriage with bill.
And I haven't just truly never thought about
that. In in that light before, you know,
that that's been, you know, we're kind...
Reflected that. 1 1 from the other and
that's certainly that the before we hope because
that really was early on when I was
because if what am I gonna do with
it. But I never felt guilty. I truly...
III had no guilt. I had no reasons
Have guilt.
I continue to think that
somehow,
bill with God's health still looks open.
And Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that the people
that we lose throughout our lifetime have a...
Have a a hand. They sit there. They
drink their coffee in the morning and they
say, what are gonna do today?
Yeah.
Yes. But they don't watch us go to
the bathroom unlike what happened to you and
you're on killing.
Let's get into the fountain. Talk about what
that was like. I would start. In the
front, but end up in the back.
Probably every day, Bonnie were you, you were
sort like that. We would we would kind
of bring up
bring the group up from behind. We were
slow. Everything back off the time.
And there about 30 people In our group,
there were... What was it, well? Maybe 25
ish? 24 ish, 25 at... Yes. Mh. Yeah.
In our group. In total, there were almost
40 of us. We were on 2 different
trails?
Whoa. So what was that like? What are
you saying to yourselves in your minds? Is
your doing this to keep you going 1
foot in front of the other because I'm
sure you are exhausted at points, you talk
about it. I mean, most especially maybe we'll
start close to the top.
But most
especially... I mean, when when you begin, truly
from the first step,
you're thinking, I was thinking.
I I don't think I can do this.
I mean, I had... There were some small
mountains that I tried to climb back home
but I... That I couldn't do. Right I
went up to me tried to declined not
for time.
I couldn't do it. I got about a
half a mile from the top.
Knew I couldn't go any further and turned
around, the And that was okay.
But, and then there were a couple of
other things that I attempted to do and
couldn't do. So...
For me, Our very first morning that we
woke up on the mountain.
I woke up. I ran into the woods,
and I threw up.
And I got all
my god. He's got Ripe is gonna send
me back down.
I would worried. I mean, I was sick.
Up a couple of times, and I managed
to get some really weak oatmeal down me
and that that stayed down.
It turned out. I was just
excited about taking my vitamins in anymore. I
took my vitamins with nothing in my
that they did lights on it.
And that's... And and then I packed my
stuff off and roll my been bag and
got everything ready and that's that's what made
me sit. Because after that, I never
never actually got it I never had another,
like, a number of people in our trial.
Had a lot of stomach problems. I feel
like I probably ate some of their food
because the food the food is good. I
was eaten a lot, So I was good
there.
Certainly the most difficult day was on Summit.
And
Some at night, you start you start at
about 11:00 at night,
and you continue to walk just ever ever
so slowly. I mean, the perk... Well, the
per... 1 of the first things that happened
to me saw I'm at night was
my tent may sued
actually got sick before we left.
And
she got all herself back together. She tried
to climb. We didn't get very.
And
I I walked off the path her, rick
literally took me and pushing me back on
the path
and I just... I mean, I cried
because we had gotten still close, and it
was it was a moment,
And then at 1 point, at 1 point,
there we
stopped for a break in our quarter
our porter
had glass cups for us, and we would
break and tea and glass cups and, you
know, it it just felt surreal real.
At the time. And then as as we
continue to go, I would pass 1 of
our very young 23 year old athletes
young man who... He was just getting so
sick. That's how I would say in my
head, I'm not sick. I'm just very
hollywood,
So 1 point, I somehow got lost from
the group, but somehow
rick and our African guy yous found me.
And at that point, I... Because I I
looked at Yous and I said, could you
carry my hand? I said about I can't
use it.
So he not only carried my path but
he stayed with me
until we got to the very top.
And he never when we... When we got
close to the top, probably about 45 minutes.
What... He just took my arm, and he
never he never let go.
So it was
literally and truly
1 step at a time. And I've said
so many times, it was not my physical
body. They got there. It was mud likely
because I I know I could've have given
up at any time.
On that experience, I know there's but, you
know, not big things like Pill Europe, but
I know there's some things in my life
since
where I've...
I think
should I should I just stop? Should I
give up at this point and there's some
time when I like, now. Gonna keep gone.
Didn't be gone. See what happened.
Step by step.
That by sound. Yeah. 1 step time.
The guides and the...
Porter, they're, like, lungs on feet.
I don't know how they do it.
Yeah.
They are amazing.
Yeah. It's it's it's extraordinary. Robin what about
you? So a few weeks before we went.
Before we left for Africa,
I had some pretty severe autoimmune issues going
on, and they were trying to rule out
lupus, and I didn't even know if I
could go.
And I was on a medication,
that when we landed and got to Africa,
I didn't realize you're not because of the
temperature,
the medication it made my body swell.
And then this was... The night before we
were about to leave. My boots didn't fit.
My legs and my feet were swollen.
I thought all this a year of training,
I'm here, and now I can't climb.
So we have some doctors in our in
our group.
And
somebody let me support panty hose,
and, we put my feet on a whole
bunch of duff bags that were stacked high,
and I slept with my feet as high
as possible.
And the next morning, everything had kind of...
Gotten back to normal and I was able
to put on my shoes and leave for
the mountain,
and I stopped taking the medicine. So I
at least got on the mountain, which was
great.
And then pretty early on, around,
at 13000 feet, I started getting pretty sick,
pretty nauseous.
And at that time, I'd only the highest
mountain I'd ever climbed was Mount Marcy in
the Adi, and that's only 11000 feet.
And Kill is over 19300
feet.
So I knew that I still had a
really, really long way to go, just taking
it slow
by the time we got to summit at
night,
I hadn't eaten in about 3 days,
I had had a... Couple bites of granola
bars, but couldn't eat any food. I hadn't
slept in more than 24 hours.
And it's just you kind of are running
definitely on, you know, I don't even know
if it's adrenaline. I don't I don't know
what it is, but you're running on something,
and
oxygen is 50 percent of what you're used
to.
There was a time on summit at night
where I saw Rick look at me, and
I saw doubt in his eyes, and I
just that fired me up. I was, the
same as Bonnie. You know, I was like,
there's no way. He's gonna tell me to
turn around.
So I kept going.
And the last few hours,
I kept thinking about why we were there.
Raising money for people with cancer,
and
I just kept repeating to myself. My pain
is finite,
my pain is finite
because I knew that people who have cancer,
they don't necessarily know that their pain is
finite. And I felt
so grateful that I was in that position.
So that's what got me to the top.
Oh, and that stella point, which is you
get to a place called Stella point, which
is the the rim,
but you have to walk another 45 minutes
to get to the highest point on the
top where the the markers are and the
flags and the con
sign. But when you're at the rim
we saw the curvature of the Earth at
Sunrise,
which is the site you just never forget.
Wow.
Incredible.
Bonnie, would you think when you got up
there? It it so hard to put it
into words. It's so hard to put in
words. It was
because as Robin said, this was if it
was a cancer fund. And so 1 of
the things that we all had is we
all had a
plastic
poster if you will, that we could pull
up and put in our backpack, and we
had had countless people
signed that poster
you know, as a group,
we raised over 200000
dollars for for cancer
just on that that 1 time.
And some of the messages.
And that's the other thing that you think
about as you walk up there are some
of the messages that people have put on
there. You know, some are in in memorial,
to people who are at, you know, some
are
to honor people who are currently struggling
that truly was something that just...
That was so important. And we all got
our, we all got it got it out
and had our pictures taken
with that up there.
Yeah. It really is hard to... You know,
and I know this is Troy, but it's
very hard to put it put in words.
You've been working for a couple years.
Ports this goal in and you're there. And
it's
1 of the most amazing feelings I have.
Having
that experience. I'm sure you had to pack
very lightly.
Was there something that you...
Is a 2 prong, I guess, what did
you
think you couldn't live without and then realize
that you could live with without on that
journey? And and vice versa what are you
so glad you had with you?
Funny, do you wanna go because you had
your
shot necklace?
I did have light shot necklace.
And that was a necklace that had been
given to me
on our Romania trip
by our guide, steve, I had mentioned before
that
Rick
headed heads up Packed harold Steve. His his
brother Steve
was the leader for our
trip.
He Steve had been over to Kill General
a couple of years before then. And so
he and I were doing lot, you know,
nice talking about Bill General, and he had
a show necklace around around his neck.
And, he talked a lot about that, and
he said that he had not taken that
off.
Since he done it when he was at
Code General.
When I got home,
he had
put that
necklace in the bottom of my in the
bottom of my bed
with just a beautiful note.
Just a beautiful note of how you wanna
to get that to me,
and
it was time time to pass it on.
So so I'd certainly, I wore that. The
entire thing that was
that was very important. I don't know that
there was anything that I have, that I
felt like I didn't need.
I mean, we were blessed and lucky that
orders carried our big men. We had we
had to carry
day pants with our reindeer gear and
snacks and things like that, but but the
reporters, the porter truly did the heavy lifting
for us to get things
Yeah,
her robin in? This was so long ago.
I know more about what Bonnie had than
what I do what I did.
But
I think the only thing that I'm thinking
of now is I brought a journal
so that I could take copious notes of
my a whole trip and that lasted maybe
a day. I just didn't have it in
me too. I was too tired.
I guess I could I could
pretend that
that well, I was too present, you know,
I could
I could make it about that, but I
don't think that's the truth. I think that,
that I was just too tired to even
bother
recreating the day every day.
So I thought I couldn't live without it,
but I guess I could.
Did you miss me bank from home?
My daughter
she was 2 at the time. My mom
my mom had them for 8 for 17
days or something like that. Yeah. Mh. Mh.
Wow, how did y'all all maintain privacy on
this trip? Was that a very humbling thing
of trying to, you know, just being a
human being and all of its it's fo,
you know, special smells and things.
Special smells.
Well, I mean, the 1 that... And I
don't know that we... No. I think this
was in the door. But even... You know,
like, they're in the day when you have
to... Because because you do have to drink
a lot. If you don't drink, you are
gonna get it
so, you know, you're you're constantly drinking. And
so at least for a lot of us
we're constantly peeing.
And and when you do, the 1 thing
you cannot do... You can pay, I'm, you
know, off the trail. But you cannot leave
any toilet for any place.
So we have 2 plastic bags in our
pockets every day, 1 with clean,
stuff, and 1 with and not clean stuff.
So that was really something. I I mean
I think most people who were on the
trip had been
previous Biker or campers, and you're trying used
to... Of course, here there's no what for
the most part, let now once you get
up to a certain elevation. There's the woods
to go into anymore. So you try and
find a rock the hide behind or,
you know, and no. And then you just
hopeful that when you get to him, they
actually... They had a toilet set for us,
you know, 1 of the tall narrow
tents, and they did have a toilet tenth.
So
there we could go in and do our
big business. So you you hope that get
things would work out in the body so
that you could, you know, could do that
in the morning or do that when you
got to the
camp at night.
Yeah. Yeah.
Definitely not a trip to be on your
period for, I guess too.
You a bad idea. To really time things.
Great.
Robin, what about you? Did you have any
moments where you thought, my my shy is
Or, you know, my modest is taking over.
No. I just remember, like, pass... Animals. We
would all kind of find the biggest rock
and all go at the same time.
Hilarious.
What is if you could sum it up
1
word
of how that trip changed you, What would
it be?
I'm I'm gonna say friendship.
Friendship,
true,
love in friendship.
I mean, we.
We still have... We still have friends
who, you know,
we began training with these people.
We still hike with them Today 234
days ago were up. We were a bunch
of us without hiking.
First Saturday of every month, the group still
gets together and goes for a hike all
these years later. Mh.
I love it. I mean, 1 thing that
has just stated my cart forever, it's this
is definitely in the book. But when I
came back down, I was beyond exhausted at
that point.
And I... And I'm thinking to my brain.
I hope I can come the tent to
get in there, and I somehow did, I
got in there. And my friend too who
wasn't able to do a climb of course
she was in there.
And the first thing she did was take
off my boots. And by the time, I
got... She got to my second boot,
I was sound,
that makes me cry. Every time I think
about.
You know, that
that's the kind of love and friendship that
we've learned that we've learned to lucy
and get.
Yeah.
Yeah. What about you, robin? What's your 1
word?
Perspective.
It's help me now no matter what I
do. I just tell myself well, I climbed
Kill jar. I can do this.
Yeah.
It's a major... That's some... Or do you
think gil either of you will climb another
mountain?
I'm a 1 and done. Yeah. Another mountain.
Yes, but not this high. Not the sign.
Probably the same for me. Not yeah. Not
good time. I mean, we went in and
that was in the book too. We... Jim
and I took a trip to base camp
up done that was that was a amazing
that was
completely different kind of climb from general, very
different.
Mh.
Yeah. Probably not. I mean we're...
And I shouldn't... We're in our seventies now
and
I mean, we still... We're still very active.
We still do a lot of things, but
probably not gonna climb kill them joe.
Is Rick still giving tours? He does. Yeah.
Yeah.
I wanna interview Rick. I... When I was
reading about Rick. I thought, now that's somebody.
Oh, yeah. No. He would be great. 1
of you guys to introduce me the rick
because I wanna interview.
Okay. He's a character.
We can do that.
Yeah. It's a character. He sounds like he's
had a lot of interesting life experiences.
Yeah.
Thank you both so much for being on
the show, tell everyone where they can find
climbing out. They can find it on Amazon.
It's climbing out an adventure in red
life after loss. And thank you both. I
really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much.
Susan thank you so much. We appreciate you
taking the time, and let us tell a
little bit about us story.
Absolutely. There's a lot of fun. I'm gonna
manifest with you that it gets made into
a movie. I think it'll make a great
movie.
Why not? Great. You'll get credit.
Thank you for listening everybody.
Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
Great review and subscribe to Hey human podcast
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