1 00:00:07,985 --> 00:00:08,485 - Hey, humans. 2 00:00:08,695 --> 00:00:10,645 How's it going? Susan Ruth here. 3 00:00:10,865 --> 00:00:12,885 Thanks for listening to another episode 4 00:00:13,345 --> 00:00:14,485 of Hey Human Podcast. 5 00:00:15,995 --> 00:00:18,005 This is episode 398, 6 00:00:18,665 --> 00:00:21,165 and my guest is Saba Ray. 7 00:00:22,195 --> 00:00:23,885 Saba experienced more chaos 8 00:00:24,185 --> 00:00:26,925 as a small child than some people experienced 9 00:00:26,925 --> 00:00:28,045 their whole lives. 10 00:00:28,355 --> 00:00:31,405 Born in Iran during the Iran Iraq war. 11 00:00:31,665 --> 00:00:35,685 She bore witness to tragedy, terror, death, and violence. 12 00:00:36,625 --> 00:00:37,845 Her family escaped 13 00:00:38,025 --> 00:00:40,765 and eventually made their way to the United States 14 00:00:41,545 --> 00:00:42,885 by way of Pakistan. 15 00:00:43,785 --> 00:00:45,525 Her early years took their toll, 16 00:00:45,705 --> 00:00:48,525 and she had to fight to save herself from the brink 17 00:00:48,745 --> 00:00:52,365 as she learned to transform her pain into power. 18 00:00:53,165 --> 00:00:54,765 I really enjoyed this conversation. 19 00:00:55,485 --> 00:00:57,165 I think it's an important conversation. 20 00:00:58,185 --> 00:01:02,205 And yeah, I mean, for lots of reasons beside the fact that 21 00:01:03,355 --> 00:01:05,645 what she went through and how she got to the other side, 22 00:01:05,845 --> 00:01:07,765 I think will resonate with a lot of people and, 23 00:01:08,505 --> 00:01:10,845 and also just the triumph of it all, 24 00:01:11,645 --> 00:01:13,325 I hope will also resonate. 25 00:01:14,645 --> 00:01:17,825 All right, check out hey human podcast.com for links. 26 00:01:17,825 --> 00:01:19,745 And to learn more about my guests 27 00:01:19,845 --> 00:01:22,705 and the show, check out Susan ruth.com. 28 00:01:22,765 --> 00:01:23,985 To learn more about me 29 00:01:24,365 --> 00:01:28,345 and my other artistic endeavors, please follow Susan Ruths 30 00:01:28,405 --> 00:01:30,305 and hey, human podcast on social media. 31 00:01:31,335 --> 00:01:34,865 Find my music on Spotify, apple music, Amazon music, 32 00:01:35,265 --> 00:01:38,545 wherever you get your music rate, review and subscribe to. 33 00:01:38,605 --> 00:01:40,585 Hey, human podcast on iTunes 34 00:01:40,685 --> 00:01:43,785 or wherever you get your podcasts. 35 00:01:43,815 --> 00:01:45,265 It's on iHeart, Spotify. 36 00:01:45,455 --> 00:01:47,625 It's all over the place, so check it out. 37 00:01:47,905 --> 00:01:49,625 Wherever is best and easiest for you. 38 00:01:50,315 --> 00:01:51,385 Thank you for listening 39 00:01:52,245 --> 00:01:54,545 and for sharing the show with other people 40 00:01:54,645 --> 00:01:55,705 and getting the word out. 41 00:01:56,525 --> 00:02:00,385 Be well, be kind, be love, hold each other up. 42 00:02:01,285 --> 00:02:05,735 And here we go. Saba Ray, 43 00:02:05,735 --> 00:02:07,095 welcome to Hey, human. 44 00:02:07,425 --> 00:02:10,015 - Thank you. Thank you Su for having me. It's 45 00:02:10,015 --> 00:02:11,015 - Lovely to see you. 46 00:02:11,315 --> 00:02:13,095 - Yes, same here. Same here. 47 00:02:13,575 --> 00:02:17,655 - I like to start these conversations by talking about 48 00:02:18,225 --> 00:02:20,895 where you came from, what shaped you as a person 49 00:02:21,515 --> 00:02:23,335 to bring you to who you are now. 50 00:02:23,955 --> 00:02:27,135 So if, if you would talk about where you're from 51 00:02:27,395 --> 00:02:29,135 and what your family life was like 52 00:02:29,235 --> 00:02:31,415 and your experience around all of that. 53 00:02:32,055 --> 00:02:35,375 - I was born in Iran, so I didn't grow up in the States, 54 00:02:35,715 --> 00:02:36,815 um, in Iran. 55 00:02:37,215 --> 00:02:40,175 I was born at a time where Iran and Iraq were at war. 56 00:02:40,655 --> 00:02:42,935 I mean, imagine one of your first childhood memories being 57 00:02:43,065 --> 00:02:44,575 bombs being dropped in your neighborhood. 58 00:02:44,635 --> 00:02:47,255 So it's kinda, yeah, it's, it was wild. 59 00:02:47,915 --> 00:02:51,575 So, and given the situation of what was happening in Iran at 60 00:02:51,575 --> 00:02:55,335 that time, they had the, uh, Islamic Revolution. 61 00:02:55,885 --> 00:02:58,095 Well, it wasn't, it wasn't a revolution. 62 00:02:58,095 --> 00:02:59,565 It was more like a . 63 00:02:59,565 --> 00:03:01,925 And it was, it was a, a downgrade. 64 00:03:02,315 --> 00:03:06,125 They, it, my family had a hard time. We had a hard time. 65 00:03:06,745 --> 00:03:09,685 Our background, uh, is in Bahai, so, 66 00:03:10,505 --> 00:03:13,445 and they really gave a hard time to the Jewish people, 67 00:03:13,505 --> 00:03:15,685 to the Baha people and the Christians as well. 68 00:03:16,585 --> 00:03:20,605 And because of our background, when we try to escape, 69 00:03:20,625 --> 00:03:22,005 my father was thrown in prison. 70 00:03:22,465 --> 00:03:26,045 And there, when you go to prison, it was kind of like, well, 71 00:03:26,075 --> 00:03:27,445 he's not getting out . 72 00:03:27,825 --> 00:03:31,245 It was like, if they get the prison sentence, then he was 73 00:03:31,265 --> 00:03:32,805 for sure gonna get killed in prison, 74 00:03:32,805 --> 00:03:35,365 because when my father, the first time my father went 75 00:03:35,645 --> 00:03:38,445 to prison, uh, he was telling us some 76 00:03:38,445 --> 00:03:43,045 of the stories in there where at night they would come, 77 00:03:43,155 --> 00:03:45,645 pull the prisoners out and line 'em up. 78 00:03:45,705 --> 00:03:47,045 So every night they would count 79 00:03:47,425 --> 00:03:48,845 how many shots were being fired 80 00:03:48,845 --> 00:03:50,925 because that's how many people were being shot, killed. 81 00:03:51,705 --> 00:03:53,765 And they would count 200 some nights. 82 00:03:54,645 --> 00:03:58,805 I mean, it was horrific. So luckily he got out 83 00:03:59,345 --> 00:04:03,245 and he said, you know what, I'm gonna go, uh, no, this, 84 00:04:03,425 --> 00:04:06,165 I'm sorry, this, uh, the second time was, uh, he said, 85 00:04:06,165 --> 00:04:09,085 let's all go together as a family, try to escape, 86 00:04:09,195 --> 00:04:10,645 because you can't really leave there. 87 00:04:10,645 --> 00:04:11,965 You have to escape, and we have 88 00:04:11,965 --> 00:04:13,725 to get smuggled out of the country. 89 00:04:14,195 --> 00:04:15,525 From the country or from the prison? 90 00:04:16,275 --> 00:04:19,245 From, uh, no, from, uh, from the country. Yeah. 91 00:04:19,625 --> 00:04:20,645 He got outta prison. 92 00:04:21,185 --> 00:04:24,525 He got quite lucky to be, to even be able to get out. 93 00:04:25,225 --> 00:04:29,185 And coincidentally enough, he was able to get out. 94 00:04:29,325 --> 00:04:31,745 And then they, my parents got together 95 00:04:31,745 --> 00:04:34,985 and said, let's, this was the second time I apologized. 96 00:04:35,285 --> 00:04:38,345 He said, let me go in front of you guys, right? 97 00:04:39,085 --> 00:04:42,985 And I will get to the us build a life for you, 98 00:04:43,565 --> 00:04:45,665 and then I'll bring you guys out. 99 00:04:46,845 --> 00:04:50,215 Well, he went, and then he got caught, 100 00:04:51,675 --> 00:04:53,495 and he got thrown in prison again. 101 00:04:53,555 --> 00:04:55,655 And this time my mom thought, that's it. 102 00:04:55,875 --> 00:04:57,535 You know, it's, this is over. 103 00:04:58,115 --> 00:04:59,575 And the way she would, 104 00:04:59,575 --> 00:05:03,575 because women couldn't, especially given her background 105 00:05:03,635 --> 00:05:05,135 of being a Baja, you couldn't work. 106 00:05:05,795 --> 00:05:07,535 So there's no jobs you couldn't get paid. 107 00:05:07,635 --> 00:05:10,495 And how she took care of us was she would sell cigarettes 108 00:05:11,355 --> 00:05:12,935 to, to be able to provide. 109 00:05:13,555 --> 00:05:15,055 And then she, luckily, one 110 00:05:15,055 --> 00:05:18,295 of the family members gave her a job, uh, 111 00:05:18,595 --> 00:05:19,855 to imprinting t-shirts. 112 00:05:20,355 --> 00:05:23,255 So she was able to provide for us while my father was away. 113 00:05:23,395 --> 00:05:28,125 And when she went to go visit him in prison, uh, 114 00:05:28,665 --> 00:05:31,685 the second time, um, unfortunately, 115 00:05:31,905 --> 00:05:33,805 she was raped by the guards there. 116 00:05:34,905 --> 00:05:37,525 And it wasn't just one, it was a few, 117 00:05:37,865 --> 00:05:39,965 and this happened, this was 118 00:05:41,765 --> 00:05:43,375 regular, more than not. 119 00:05:44,155 --> 00:05:45,895 And you, you could just, 120 00:05:46,275 --> 00:05:51,215 and there, imagine the mentality here 121 00:05:51,275 --> 00:05:54,055 for a moment, if something like that would happen 122 00:05:54,055 --> 00:05:56,935 to a woman there, the husband, 123 00:05:57,665 --> 00:05:59,885 the man would look at the woman as, um, 124 00:06:00,965 --> 00:06:02,455 basically damaged goods. 125 00:06:03,475 --> 00:06:06,335 And that, and I thought, man, that's just like how 126 00:06:07,565 --> 00:06:09,815 that makes, how could you even think that? 127 00:06:10,685 --> 00:06:14,635 Right. That makes no, um, sense 128 00:06:14,655 --> 00:06:15,835 to me at all. 129 00:06:16,055 --> 00:06:19,115 No humane sense. I can't say logical, but no humane sense. 130 00:06:20,055 --> 00:06:23,835 So luckily my father is not that type of a man, uh, 131 00:06:23,945 --> 00:06:25,835 growing up in that area of the world. 132 00:06:26,775 --> 00:06:29,935 And so, given that 133 00:06:30,965 --> 00:06:35,135 when my father got out again, he managed 134 00:06:35,275 --> 00:06:39,855 to make I not friends, but to, uh, ally with some people. 135 00:06:39,875 --> 00:06:42,455 And there where he was able to survive, you can say. 136 00:06:43,315 --> 00:06:46,895 So when he got out again, he, they decided, 137 00:06:47,185 --> 00:06:49,295 let's all go as a family. 138 00:06:50,235 --> 00:06:53,495 So now this being a risk, there's three of us, three kids, 139 00:06:54,015 --> 00:06:55,255 with my parents, 140 00:06:56,155 --> 00:06:59,015 and they sold everything, put everything up for, you know, 141 00:06:59,445 --> 00:07:01,335 grabbed the cash and we're gonna leave. 142 00:07:01,845 --> 00:07:03,175 Then we found people 143 00:07:03,725 --> 00:07:06,135 that smuggled people out of the country. 144 00:07:07,275 --> 00:07:10,895 And this by itself is, is a risk because you don't know. 145 00:07:12,015 --> 00:07:14,135 I mean, you really don't know what's gonna happen to you. 146 00:07:14,395 --> 00:07:15,895 And so we did that, 147 00:07:16,835 --> 00:07:19,415 and these people would drive. 148 00:07:19,815 --> 00:07:21,615 I remember being in the back of a pickup truck, 149 00:07:21,915 --> 00:07:23,495 and we would drive at dead at night. 150 00:07:23,495 --> 00:07:25,495 There's no headlights because you, you're, 151 00:07:25,675 --> 00:07:28,255 you're being smuggled out of the country, . 152 00:07:28,435 --> 00:07:31,415 So, and at the risk of being caught, you, 153 00:07:31,435 --> 00:07:32,495 you, you'd be killed. 154 00:07:32,685 --> 00:07:35,815 There's, there's no, you know, buts, ORs about that. 155 00:07:36,315 --> 00:07:37,615 - And how old are you at this time? 156 00:07:38,335 --> 00:07:40,975 - I was about seven. - So you had an understanding 157 00:07:41,005 --> 00:07:42,215 that we have to be quiet, 158 00:07:42,315 --> 00:07:43,655 we have to be good, you know, good. 159 00:07:43,715 --> 00:07:46,575 And, and get along so that terrible things don't happen. 160 00:07:47,595 --> 00:07:50,615 - Oh, for sure. I mean, growing up as a kid, 161 00:07:50,635 --> 00:07:54,055 my childhood was being careful of not being killed. 162 00:07:54,675 --> 00:07:58,575 Uh, not being caught, always watching out for something, uh, 163 00:07:59,955 --> 00:08:01,255 you know, horrific happening 164 00:08:01,255 --> 00:08:02,855 because that's, there was no safety. 165 00:08:04,015 --> 00:08:06,615 I didn't have any understanding of being safe. 166 00:08:07,675 --> 00:08:09,735 So, yeah, we had to be super quiet. 167 00:08:09,855 --> 00:08:13,655 I remember my mom, uh, gave some, um, 168 00:08:14,415 --> 00:08:16,055 I don't know if it was a sleeping liquid, 169 00:08:16,055 --> 00:08:19,695 but cold medicine to make my younger brother go to sleep 170 00:08:20,085 --> 00:08:21,375 because he was an infant. 171 00:08:21,795 --> 00:08:25,095 But I remember when we crossed over, I looked over, 172 00:08:25,235 --> 00:08:28,255 he could see the white line of the border, 173 00:08:29,795 --> 00:08:34,575 and that was like, you know, it was a really, uh, uh, 174 00:08:35,005 --> 00:08:37,095 celebrating moment to say the least, 175 00:08:37,115 --> 00:08:40,135 and be able to, uh, you know, a sigh of relief. 176 00:08:41,155 --> 00:08:43,175 And, and we crossed over into the Pakistan 177 00:08:43,175 --> 00:08:44,535 border in Pakistan. 178 00:08:45,555 --> 00:08:48,975 And from there, , there's another story 179 00:08:49,585 --> 00:08:52,135 where the next person that picked us up, 180 00:08:52,135 --> 00:08:54,175 because it was, there was different, uh, drop, 181 00:08:54,365 --> 00:08:55,645 drop off, uh, points. 182 00:08:56,185 --> 00:09:00,645 So the next, uh, driver that picked us up, this guy took us 183 00:09:00,785 --> 00:09:02,805 for this, it was like a rendezvous. 184 00:09:03,115 --> 00:09:05,925 Like we thought we were lost, but this guy had other plans. 185 00:09:06,785 --> 00:09:10,005 And if you could imagine a lot of human trafficking 186 00:09:10,305 --> 00:09:12,205 and things goes on, on those routes. 187 00:09:13,065 --> 00:09:15,925 So were lost in the desert for hours. 188 00:09:16,585 --> 00:09:20,405 We thought we were lost. Well, and we didn't have any food. 189 00:09:20,405 --> 00:09:22,845 We didn't have any water. I remember my brother 190 00:09:22,985 --> 00:09:24,285 and my mom passed out 191 00:09:24,285 --> 00:09:26,205 because they were dehydrated from dehydration. 192 00:09:26,525 --> 00:09:27,485 I remember my dad telling 193 00:09:27,485 --> 00:09:28,485 me, you know, you need to stay awake. 194 00:09:28,485 --> 00:09:30,005 It's very important for you to stay awake. 195 00:09:30,465 --> 00:09:33,125 So now I was trying to talk to my brother to keep him awake. 196 00:09:33,825 --> 00:09:38,205 And luckily we got, uh, the, uh, police officers 197 00:09:38,225 --> 00:09:40,045 of Pakistan found us. 198 00:09:41,185 --> 00:09:43,485 And I remember looking at that man's face, 199 00:09:44,265 --> 00:09:47,045 and he was looking down at me, and he looked at the driver 200 00:09:47,185 --> 00:09:48,805 and he knew there was something off. 201 00:09:49,415 --> 00:09:52,085 First of all, he gave us water, which was fantastic. 202 00:09:52,525 --> 00:09:54,325 , I'll never forget that, water, . 203 00:09:55,025 --> 00:09:59,565 And second, he decided to drive us to our next, uh, stop. 204 00:10:00,295 --> 00:10:03,885 Which he, you know, he kind of saved our lives that day too, 205 00:10:03,935 --> 00:10:05,605 which was remarkable. 206 00:10:06,625 --> 00:10:08,765 - You think that it's likely that the man 207 00:10:08,765 --> 00:10:11,685 who was driving you on the second point was a 208 00:10:11,685 --> 00:10:12,885 human trafficker, probably. 209 00:10:13,265 --> 00:10:15,645 - Oh, for sure. Because what had happened was 210 00:10:16,265 --> 00:10:19,085 my father had my mom sit in the front 211 00:10:19,085 --> 00:10:20,405 with him in the beginning, 212 00:10:20,475 --> 00:10:23,925 because you were either sitting outside in the, uh, the bed 213 00:10:23,925 --> 00:10:25,125 of the truck, or you could sit 214 00:10:25,125 --> 00:10:27,005 inside was there was a little bit cooler air. 215 00:10:27,745 --> 00:10:29,685 And as she was sitting there, she was kind 216 00:10:29,685 --> 00:10:31,045 of passing out in a sense. 217 00:10:31,065 --> 00:10:32,885 And then all of a sudden she felt like a warm 218 00:10:32,995 --> 00:10:34,205 hand down her shirt. 219 00:10:34,835 --> 00:10:37,325 Yeah. And then she's like, okay, whoa, stop. 220 00:10:37,545 --> 00:10:39,005 But I want to go in the back. 221 00:10:39,305 --> 00:10:41,765 So then she had my dad come to the front with me, 222 00:10:42,505 --> 00:10:43,685 and she sat in the back. 223 00:10:43,785 --> 00:10:46,645 So it was, yeah, it was the not, 224 00:10:46,905 --> 00:10:48,525 not good where it was going. 225 00:10:49,425 --> 00:10:50,605 And that kind of stuff happens. 226 00:10:50,825 --> 00:10:52,365 You hear stories all the time. 227 00:10:53,675 --> 00:10:55,525 Luckily enough we got found 228 00:10:56,545 --> 00:11:01,005 and we made it to, uh, Pakistan to uh, uh, 229 00:11:01,465 --> 00:11:05,125 get the asylum, and we were able to stay to, 230 00:11:05,345 --> 00:11:07,725 we lived there in Pakistan for about a year 231 00:11:07,725 --> 00:11:09,925 and a half to get our visas 232 00:11:09,925 --> 00:11:11,045 to be able to come to the States. 233 00:11:12,845 --> 00:11:13,985 So that was that. 234 00:11:14,765 --> 00:11:17,185 - How did the family as a whole, 235 00:11:17,845 --> 00:11:19,265 and I mean, at seven, I don't know 236 00:11:19,265 --> 00:11:21,105 that if you would have an understanding of the violence 237 00:11:21,135 --> 00:11:22,465 that had occurred to your mom, 238 00:11:23,285 --> 00:11:27,865 but how does a family recover from such a violent act 239 00:11:27,865 --> 00:11:31,345 of war to, to your point, to create women 240 00:11:31,365 --> 00:11:32,465 who are damaged goods? 241 00:11:32,615 --> 00:11:36,105 Rape is used as a, as a tool of war, 242 00:11:36,725 --> 00:11:39,225 but how does the family deal with that afterward? 243 00:11:40,095 --> 00:11:43,985 - Yeah. See that, that's where it's, 244 00:11:44,015 --> 00:11:45,585 it's a pretty deep topic 245 00:11:45,615 --> 00:11:50,305 because how it affected her, the way my mom was, 246 00:11:50,685 --> 00:11:53,120 and mainly because of this, this, 247 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,085 and this is, you know, later on in life 248 00:11:55,085 --> 00:11:56,685 where I can look back and reflect 249 00:11:56,705 --> 00:12:01,685 and make sense of it all, is it, she was a very, 250 00:12:01,985 --> 00:12:06,845 um, strong and driven woman, so she was very resourceful, 251 00:12:07,385 --> 00:12:10,125 and she taught me how to be that as well. 252 00:12:10,385 --> 00:12:14,135 But as far as being affectionate 253 00:12:14,235 --> 00:12:16,485 and tender, not there, 254 00:12:17,155 --> 00:12:20,445 because it was destroyed, that part 255 00:12:20,445 --> 00:12:22,365 of her was absolutely destroyed. 256 00:12:22,425 --> 00:12:26,285 And did it have negative impact on my parents' marriage? 257 00:12:26,785 --> 00:12:28,285 Oh, for sure. I mean, she can, 258 00:12:28,715 --> 00:12:31,165 when a woman experiences something like that, 259 00:12:31,425 --> 00:12:34,485 she can never be the same in the bedroom, you know, 260 00:12:34,485 --> 00:12:37,285 with her husband or, or anyone, as a matter of fact. 261 00:12:38,105 --> 00:12:42,325 And I didn't receive a lot of, um, uh, 262 00:12:42,325 --> 00:12:45,085 tender affection or just physical affection 263 00:12:45,395 --> 00:12:49,325 because it just wasn't in their, um, constitution. 264 00:12:49,325 --> 00:12:51,765 They did, they did the best they could with what they had. 265 00:12:51,765 --> 00:12:54,365 But these were the side effects of, um, 266 00:12:54,745 --> 00:12:57,765 how it would affect the children growing up in the house. 267 00:12:58,345 --> 00:13:01,675 It takes a toll on, on you for sure. 268 00:13:02,295 --> 00:13:06,155 And, and she, cons, cons, what's the word? 269 00:13:06,335 --> 00:13:11,195 Um, compensated for, uh, working hard is what she did. 270 00:13:11,935 --> 00:13:13,555 She made up for it in that arena. 271 00:13:14,175 --> 00:13:15,795 And my father, luckily enough, 272 00:13:15,815 --> 00:13:18,395 was a open-minded person growing up 273 00:13:18,395 --> 00:13:19,515 in that side of the world. 274 00:13:20,135 --> 00:13:22,155 He was very good and kind to her. 275 00:13:22,295 --> 00:13:23,875 And, which I can respect, 276 00:13:23,875 --> 00:13:27,875 because it's, it's not very common, unfortunately. 277 00:13:29,115 --> 00:13:30,375 - Are your parents still with us? 278 00:13:31,235 --> 00:13:33,535 - Yes. Yes they are. That's good to hear. 279 00:13:33,725 --> 00:13:36,655 Yeah, they're in, uh, they're in California . 280 00:13:37,445 --> 00:13:38,655 - Okay. That's where I am. 281 00:13:39,275 --> 00:13:42,055 - Are you really? Oh, okay. Very nice. Yeah. Which, yeah, 282 00:13:42,745 --> 00:13:43,745 - Santa Monica. 283 00:13:44,195 --> 00:13:47,935 - Oh, okay. Yeah, they're up in, um, uh, mission Viejo. 284 00:13:48,355 --> 00:13:50,255 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 285 00:13:51,245 --> 00:13:56,095 - Your arrival into asylum in Pakistan, how did, 286 00:13:56,435 --> 00:13:58,495 how did that go as a family? 287 00:13:58,685 --> 00:14:02,775 Were there, was the government there open armed, 288 00:14:03,235 --> 00:14:05,575 or was it more we'll receive you 289 00:14:05,575 --> 00:14:08,415 because we know you're coming from terror? Well, 290 00:14:08,485 --> 00:14:10,415 - That actually went pretty well for us 291 00:14:10,445 --> 00:14:14,175 because of the fact our religious background was in Bahai. 292 00:14:14,875 --> 00:14:17,855 So they knew that we were on the, 293 00:14:18,235 --> 00:14:19,935 you could say the target list 294 00:14:20,195 --> 00:14:22,735 of being either killed, you know, assassinated. 295 00:14:22,795 --> 00:14:24,215 So they took us in pretty well. 296 00:14:24,735 --> 00:14:27,215 I know there was another gentleman that was with us, 297 00:14:27,875 --> 00:14:30,095 but his background was Islam. 298 00:14:30,115 --> 00:14:32,775 He was Muslim, and they didn't give it to him. 299 00:14:32,805 --> 00:14:35,775 They send them back, which was horrible 300 00:14:35,775 --> 00:14:39,095 because now he has to, you know, go back there 301 00:14:39,095 --> 00:14:41,895 and be like, yeah, I didn't really try to escape it. 302 00:14:41,895 --> 00:14:42,895 - That's a death sentence. 303 00:14:43,435 --> 00:14:46,815 - Yes, pretty much. Yeah. Um, which was horrible. 304 00:14:47,035 --> 00:14:49,935 But yeah, we, we were able to get it because of that. 305 00:14:50,635 --> 00:14:53,925 Um, living there was not the best, um, living conditions. 306 00:14:54,325 --> 00:14:57,685 I remember we used to sleep in on rooftops outside 307 00:14:57,745 --> 00:15:00,605 and everybody was in one room and Yeah. 308 00:15:00,625 --> 00:15:03,285 It was not the, our, it, we was so hot there. 309 00:15:03,315 --> 00:15:06,085 I'll tell you this, , the way we cooled off our air 310 00:15:06,085 --> 00:15:07,965 condition, it was that we would take the sheets 311 00:15:07,965 --> 00:15:09,365 that we would sleep with that night 312 00:15:09,465 --> 00:15:12,005 and wet them absolutely soak and wet. 313 00:15:12,385 --> 00:15:14,685 And then we put that over a sleep outside 314 00:15:14,785 --> 00:15:15,845 so the wind would blow. 315 00:15:15,845 --> 00:15:17,325 And that was our AC . 316 00:15:18,025 --> 00:15:20,205 - That's brilliant. That is brilliant. 317 00:15:21,145 --> 00:15:23,845 And I imagine the language barrier was, 318 00:15:24,185 --> 00:15:26,485 as you move into new spaces, it has 319 00:15:26,485 --> 00:15:28,165 to be terrifying for a little kid. 320 00:15:29,225 --> 00:15:30,765 - Kid, yeah. At first. 'cause you don't 321 00:15:30,765 --> 00:15:32,045 understand what's going on. 322 00:15:32,305 --> 00:15:36,565 And, you know, I did one thing that was more pleasant was 323 00:15:36,565 --> 00:15:40,365 that you didn't hear bombs dropping guns being shot. 324 00:15:40,475 --> 00:15:42,285 That was not going on, which was great. 325 00:15:43,105 --> 00:15:45,765 Me and my older brother ended up speaking 326 00:15:45,865 --> 00:15:47,325 the language fluently. 327 00:15:47,705 --> 00:15:49,085 So we spoke, 328 00:15:49,185 --> 00:15:52,285 or do I remember having quite a bit of fun with him. 329 00:15:52,395 --> 00:15:54,365 We'd fly kites and things like that, 330 00:15:54,625 --> 00:15:57,005 but it wasn't like, I, 331 00:15:57,565 --> 00:16:00,245 I remember I really didn't wanna leave 332 00:16:00,875 --> 00:16:02,205 when we were leaving Iran 333 00:16:02,205 --> 00:16:04,965 because I was, um, I had a close relationship 334 00:16:05,275 --> 00:16:07,485 with my grandma at the time. 335 00:16:07,765 --> 00:16:09,565 'cause my mom was trying to provide, 336 00:16:09,565 --> 00:16:10,885 and my father was in prison. 337 00:16:11,265 --> 00:16:14,605 So I, I had a hard time just trying to break away from that 338 00:16:14,605 --> 00:16:16,965 because I didn't really, um, 339 00:16:17,125 --> 00:16:20,325 I didn't feel like I had a close relationship, you know, 340 00:16:20,325 --> 00:16:22,245 with my parents because they weren't really there. 341 00:16:22,905 --> 00:16:27,285 So it was kind of, uh, yeah, it it's been quite a ride. And 342 00:16:27,285 --> 00:16:30,525 - Grandma couldn't come with - No, she couldn't come. 343 00:16:31,345 --> 00:16:35,605 - Did she survive? - She actually, she did survive. 344 00:16:36,145 --> 00:16:40,245 And then later, uh, act, I think it was 13 years ago, 345 00:16:40,465 --> 00:16:42,965 or 14 years ago, we brought her to the us. 346 00:16:43,785 --> 00:16:45,405 So she came and stayed with us, 347 00:16:45,465 --> 00:16:49,965 and she passed away, um, two years ago, I wanna say. 348 00:16:50,305 --> 00:16:52,365 - Oh, may, may her memory be a blessing. 349 00:16:52,575 --> 00:16:53,845 - Thank you. . - Yeah. 350 00:16:54,315 --> 00:16:57,805 Will you explain for the listeners, uh, what the Bahai Faith 351 00:16:58,525 --> 00:17:01,205 believes, what the, what that is exactly? 352 00:17:01,995 --> 00:17:04,405 - Sure. The Baha faith, they believe in, 353 00:17:04,785 --> 00:17:06,565 all the religions say the same thing. 354 00:17:06,595 --> 00:17:07,845 They believe in one God, 355 00:17:08,345 --> 00:17:11,645 and they also believe in that every religion was meant 356 00:17:11,645 --> 00:17:14,005 to come out in a certain time period. 357 00:17:14,665 --> 00:17:18,165 And that we should all evolve with each, um, faith 358 00:17:18,195 --> 00:17:19,925 that comes out with each religion. 359 00:17:20,385 --> 00:17:21,405 So that's their main belief. 360 00:17:21,505 --> 00:17:25,885 One of my favorite quote by the, uh, founder of the faith, 361 00:17:26,105 --> 00:17:27,725 the Earth is, but one country, 362 00:17:27,985 --> 00:17:29,805 and we're all the citizens of that. 363 00:17:30,025 --> 00:17:31,685 So something like along that line. 364 00:17:31,805 --> 00:17:35,485 - I love that. I believe that. Holy . Yeah. 365 00:17:36,355 --> 00:17:39,525 What happens after Pakistan? And wait really quick. 366 00:17:39,625 --> 00:17:40,805 Did you learn, uh, 367 00:17:40,985 --> 00:17:42,885 to speak the language while you were there? 368 00:17:42,905 --> 00:17:44,605 Or you already knew it coming there? 369 00:17:44,785 --> 00:17:46,405 - No, while we were there. Yeah. 370 00:17:46,435 --> 00:17:47,445 - Okay. That's - What I figured. 371 00:17:47,865 --> 00:17:50,845 As kids, you're like a sponge. You pick things up so quick. 372 00:17:51,075 --> 00:17:53,765 It's remarkable. I wish I could still do that. . 373 00:17:55,905 --> 00:17:59,395 Okay. So from Pakistan, we come to the States, let's see, 374 00:17:59,395 --> 00:18:00,955 we started out in California first, 375 00:18:01,855 --> 00:18:04,155 and my parent, well, didn't speak, 376 00:18:04,155 --> 00:18:05,915 obviously we didn't speak the language again, 377 00:18:06,415 --> 00:18:07,755 so we had to start all over. 378 00:18:07,975 --> 00:18:10,235 And given we had to, uh, had 379 00:18:10,235 --> 00:18:12,875 to start a whole brand new life, my parents were working, 380 00:18:13,375 --> 00:18:17,155 um, you know, minimum wage jobs from six in the 381 00:18:17,155 --> 00:18:18,355 morning till 10 at night. 382 00:18:19,055 --> 00:18:21,675 And we didn't have anyone watching over us. 383 00:18:21,735 --> 00:18:23,755 So it was the TV raising us 384 00:18:24,095 --> 00:18:27,555 and the siblings basically taking care of after each other. 385 00:18:28,295 --> 00:18:31,715 And because of their fi our finances, we, 386 00:18:31,855 --> 00:18:33,715 we didn't live in very good neighborhoods. 387 00:18:34,775 --> 00:18:39,035 And as time went on, I started making really bad choices 388 00:18:39,375 --> 00:18:42,475 and started getting into, uh, gang behaviors 389 00:18:42,695 --> 00:18:45,315 and doing smoking and drugs 390 00:18:45,455 --> 00:18:48,515 and alcohol that at a very early age, too early. 391 00:18:48,695 --> 00:18:50,875 It was a rough upbringing trying to come here. 392 00:18:50,935 --> 00:18:53,755 And the, the culture was completely different. 393 00:18:53,855 --> 00:18:57,115 Trying to learn and, um, learning the language. 394 00:18:57,155 --> 00:18:59,435 I mean, I learned how to speak English from watching, um, 395 00:19:00,015 --> 00:19:01,755 New York gangster movies, . 396 00:19:02,775 --> 00:19:05,395 - That's great. - Al Pacino, you know, all 397 00:19:05,395 --> 00:19:06,475 that stuff. That's where I, and 398 00:19:06,475 --> 00:19:09,035 - English, English is not an easy language to get. 399 00:19:09,865 --> 00:19:12,715 - Yeah. It's, I remember I would sound things out. 400 00:19:12,715 --> 00:19:14,915 Like I would just listen to someone 401 00:19:15,135 --> 00:19:17,715 and I would think, oh, it's, it just sounds like this. 402 00:19:17,895 --> 00:19:20,915 And then I'm like, no, that's how you do it. . 403 00:19:21,065 --> 00:19:24,675 - Yeah. That's impressive, honestly, that 404 00:19:25,515 --> 00:19:29,115 I keep thinking about what it's like for a kid. 405 00:19:29,935 --> 00:19:31,155 I'm glad you had your siblings, 406 00:19:31,455 --> 00:19:35,515 but the loneliness that the feeling of isolation, uh, 407 00:19:35,895 --> 00:19:39,555 I'm not surprised that you would be pulled toward Mm-Hmm. 408 00:19:40,295 --> 00:19:43,355 The, the more nefarious side of life as a kid. 409 00:19:43,825 --> 00:19:48,475 Because even the worst things feel like love 410 00:19:48,895 --> 00:19:50,675 if you are absent of love. 411 00:19:51,265 --> 00:19:52,515 - Yeah, absolutely. 412 00:19:52,515 --> 00:19:55,315 That's, that's spot on because yeah, it is. 413 00:19:55,375 --> 00:19:56,755 You feel totally isolated. 414 00:19:56,815 --> 00:20:00,075 And I remember I had a close relationship 415 00:20:00,075 --> 00:20:02,275 with my older brother, but when we came to the States, 416 00:20:03,175 --> 00:20:04,635 he was going through his own thing, 417 00:20:05,135 --> 00:20:08,595 and he was one of those, you know, your typical, um, skinny 418 00:20:09,635 --> 00:20:11,715 scrawny kid with cruelly froy hair. 419 00:20:11,815 --> 00:20:13,035 So he would get picked on. 420 00:20:13,035 --> 00:20:16,075 He was like your stereotypical nerd, right? 421 00:20:16,935 --> 00:20:18,075 He would get picked on. 422 00:20:18,095 --> 00:20:21,115 And I remember one time I came out, we went 423 00:20:21,115 --> 00:20:23,995 to the same school once, I think it happened once, 424 00:20:24,895 --> 00:20:29,555 and I came out and we're going home, and he came out 425 00:20:29,555 --> 00:20:32,275 before me, and I looked down like the, the street 426 00:20:32,295 --> 00:20:36,475 and I see him and there's three kids have 'em cornered, 427 00:20:37,055 --> 00:20:39,275 and they're beating him up, like picking on him. 428 00:20:39,855 --> 00:20:42,475 And then I just, you know, I, I don't know 429 00:20:42,475 --> 00:20:45,115 what I was thinking, but I just dropped my bag 430 00:20:45,495 --> 00:20:47,560 and I started running towards these kids, 431 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,765 and I like kicked one of them in the air, 432 00:20:49,825 --> 00:20:52,365 and then they got scared and they went away. 433 00:20:52,785 --> 00:20:54,245 But I think that made it worse 434 00:20:54,245 --> 00:20:55,605 because now he is like, oh, 435 00:20:55,605 --> 00:20:58,045 you got your younger sister coming in, 436 00:20:59,025 --> 00:21:00,365 saving you, type of thing. 437 00:21:00,545 --> 00:21:03,765 So our relationship kind of started going, you know, 438 00:21:03,785 --> 00:21:04,925 in separate directions 439 00:21:05,265 --> 00:21:08,565 and yeah, it was, he was not a, 440 00:21:08,985 --> 00:21:12,565 he wasn't pleasant growing up, you know, 441 00:21:12,955 --> 00:21:15,645 parents are never there, have to work all the time. 442 00:21:15,945 --> 00:21:18,205 And my brother hates me 443 00:21:18,345 --> 00:21:20,925 and , you know, it's just, it was not fun. 444 00:21:22,545 --> 00:21:25,485 - How was the little one adjusting during this time? 445 00:21:26,345 --> 00:21:29,525 - You know, he had, I would say in a lot of ways, 446 00:21:29,685 --> 00:21:31,605 a much easier time than we did. 447 00:21:31,825 --> 00:21:35,645 He was about, um, six months old when we left. 448 00:21:36,505 --> 00:21:40,045 So he, he, he grew up in the States. 449 00:21:40,525 --> 00:21:44,085 I mean, that, he's like, if it were to say if there was, um, 450 00:21:44,885 --> 00:21:48,725 I would say we're bicultural, maybe Iranian American, 451 00:21:49,105 --> 00:21:51,765 you know, we have that cultural background. 452 00:21:51,835 --> 00:21:53,925 He's more American. He grew up here. 453 00:21:54,555 --> 00:21:57,565 Like there's a lot I I learned later on in the years that 454 00:21:58,545 --> 00:22:01,005 he doesn't really understand first . 455 00:22:02,285 --> 00:22:03,545 He pretended like he did, 456 00:22:03,565 --> 00:22:06,945 but he, does tell anybody sooner? 457 00:22:07,505 --> 00:22:11,065 . But yeah, he, he had a, uh, 458 00:22:11,125 --> 00:22:12,745 and you know, for him I would say 459 00:22:12,745 --> 00:22:15,665 that maybe the hard part was at home was a completely 460 00:22:15,665 --> 00:22:19,385 different, uh, culture and environment than was at school. 461 00:22:20,165 --> 00:22:22,905 So it just, it didn't match up for him either, 462 00:22:23,165 --> 00:22:25,025 you know, it's, yeah. 463 00:22:25,545 --> 00:22:28,905 I think he doesn't have the memories 464 00:22:29,085 --> 00:22:31,505 and, um, the experiences that me 465 00:22:31,505 --> 00:22:32,825 and my older brother went through. 466 00:22:33,085 --> 00:22:37,225 So he, he was kind of got a little bit of a blessing, 467 00:22:37,585 --> 00:22:39,265 I guess, in that sense being. 468 00:22:39,375 --> 00:22:40,375 Yeah. 469 00:22:40,805 --> 00:22:42,625 - It must be surreal too for your parents, 470 00:22:42,625 --> 00:22:45,225 because I think about, you know, Persia, 471 00:22:45,225 --> 00:22:47,985 before it was Iran, what, what a mecca 472 00:22:48,125 --> 00:22:52,905 and, you know, science and art and beautiful architecture 473 00:22:53,045 --> 00:22:54,785 and intellectuals 474 00:22:55,045 --> 00:22:58,145 and women in high powered positions 475 00:22:58,325 --> 00:23:01,545 and, you know, all of that to go from that 476 00:23:01,845 --> 00:23:02,985 to what it became. 477 00:23:03,765 --> 00:23:05,825 - Oh, for sure. Yeah. 478 00:23:05,965 --> 00:23:08,705 You know, the, the, how the story goes 479 00:23:09,485 --> 00:23:12,945 is when the Shah was, uh, in power, um, 480 00:23:13,695 --> 00:23:17,385 what they started, whoever was funding this, 481 00:23:17,385 --> 00:23:21,345 so-called Revolution, um, they 482 00:23:21,975 --> 00:23:24,945 sold it to the people as it was going to, 483 00:23:25,035 --> 00:23:28,345 we're gonna change it from, uh, just, uh, 484 00:23:28,495 --> 00:23:29,785 they called him a dictator. 485 00:23:30,185 --> 00:23:33,385 Supposedly we're gonna change it from just giving it 486 00:23:33,405 --> 00:23:36,505 to the kings and keep it in the family line to the people 487 00:23:36,725 --> 00:23:39,865 to vote for who they want to be the President. 488 00:23:41,085 --> 00:23:44,305 So that then the people are like, yeah, that's what we want. 489 00:23:44,445 --> 00:23:45,965 You know, let's, let's go for that. 490 00:23:46,865 --> 00:23:48,485 And lo 491 00:23:48,485 --> 00:23:53,045 and behold, the same day the Aya 492 00:23:53,685 --> 00:23:57,965 Khomeini came in within hours, not even hours, they said, 493 00:23:57,995 --> 00:24:00,725 okay, from this day forth, the women have to cover up. 494 00:24:00,745 --> 00:24:02,325 And everyone's going, wait, what? 495 00:24:03,865 --> 00:24:06,405 And the military broke out in the streets, 496 00:24:06,705 --> 00:24:10,245 and they were, in the beginning, they were killing people. 497 00:24:10,635 --> 00:24:13,765 They were throwing people in prison, raping women. 498 00:24:14,105 --> 00:24:15,565 And it was a mess. 499 00:24:16,105 --> 00:24:18,205 But it's really horrific to think 500 00:24:18,205 --> 00:24:20,125 that it could happen so fast. 501 00:24:20,545 --> 00:24:21,565 It was like a flash. 502 00:24:22,465 --> 00:24:24,805 And no one thought it was even possible. 503 00:24:24,925 --> 00:24:26,125 I mean, if you look at pictures 504 00:24:26,665 --> 00:24:29,165 before 1979 from Iran, 505 00:24:29,475 --> 00:24:31,045 it's like a completely different world. 506 00:24:31,155 --> 00:24:33,485 - Totally different world. - It's 507 00:24:33,485 --> 00:24:34,485 - Totally different world. 508 00:24:34,555 --> 00:24:36,165 Yeah. You would think it was New York 509 00:24:36,165 --> 00:24:38,045 or something with better looking buildings. 510 00:24:38,525 --> 00:24:39,525 . 511 00:24:39,685 --> 00:24:40,685 - . Yeah. I mean, 512 00:24:40,805 --> 00:24:42,845 the women were wearing like mini skirts, 513 00:24:42,985 --> 00:24:45,885 - Really chic and gorgeous and Yeah, 514 00:24:46,485 --> 00:24:47,485 - Absolutely. 515 00:24:47,485 --> 00:24:50,405 It's really sad what happened. It's really sad. 516 00:24:50,595 --> 00:24:51,685 It's like, well, I don't, 517 00:24:51,725 --> 00:24:54,645 I don't think the Shaw was a dictator compared to, 518 00:24:54,785 --> 00:24:58,325 you know, it's really, really sad what happened there. 519 00:24:59,105 --> 00:25:01,955 Yeah. And the people, and they're still enduring it. 520 00:25:02,095 --> 00:25:03,235 The women there, there's, 521 00:25:03,305 --> 00:25:05,835 there's still people being assassinated because, 522 00:25:06,255 --> 00:25:10,195 and the women are, you know, protesting more, taking their, 523 00:25:10,295 --> 00:25:11,395 um, hijab off. 524 00:25:11,775 --> 00:25:13,275 - Yes. And those women are now dead. 525 00:25:13,745 --> 00:25:17,195 - Yeah. Yeah. And they, they get killed. I mean, I, yeah. 526 00:25:17,345 --> 00:25:18,555 It's, it's horrific. I 527 00:25:18,715 --> 00:25:19,715 - Followed a lot of that. 528 00:25:19,715 --> 00:25:20,835 It's, it's horrific. 529 00:25:21,505 --> 00:25:24,155 - Yeah. - Baby, sweet baby girls, you know, 530 00:25:24,155 --> 00:25:26,195 16-year-old children, basically. 531 00:25:26,425 --> 00:25:30,275 Yeah. Being murdered because they show their hair. Mm-Hmm. 532 00:25:30,315 --> 00:25:33,075 - . Yeah. And one thing I can 533 00:25:33,655 --> 00:25:37,915 admire about those, uh, women is that 534 00:25:38,785 --> 00:25:40,995 they, you know, they have this, 535 00:25:41,665 --> 00:25:43,555 what they want is this zest for life. 536 00:25:43,705 --> 00:25:45,475 There's, they want their sovereignty. 537 00:25:45,475 --> 00:25:47,955 It has nothing to do with religion. 538 00:25:48,095 --> 00:25:50,515 It has to do with your sovereignty as a human being. 539 00:25:51,295 --> 00:25:56,005 And when they do that, it's like, wow. Yeah. 540 00:25:56,005 --> 00:25:57,005 It makes me, 541 00:25:57,945 --> 00:26:01,085 - You, you can't help but become emotionally invested when 542 00:26:01,085 --> 00:26:02,965 you watch those protests Mm-Hmm. 543 00:26:03,045 --> 00:26:05,325 . And know that these women are, 544 00:26:05,545 --> 00:26:07,845 and some men as well are standing up 545 00:26:08,585 --> 00:26:10,685 and saying, some things are worth dying for. 546 00:26:11,395 --> 00:26:12,645 - Yeah. Yeah. 547 00:26:12,845 --> 00:26:17,205 I mean, that, that, that to me is, is a life is a, it's a, 548 00:26:17,205 --> 00:26:19,205 it is a heroic life well lived 549 00:26:19,205 --> 00:26:21,525 because everyone else can look at that 550 00:26:21,525 --> 00:26:24,085 and go, it's not so bad. 551 00:26:24,755 --> 00:26:27,045 - Yeah. - Life is not so bad, 552 00:26:27,825 --> 00:26:28,925 to have something like that, 553 00:26:28,925 --> 00:26:30,285 that you are willing to die for it. 554 00:26:30,285 --> 00:26:32,285 That's admirable. That's admirable. 555 00:26:32,965 --> 00:26:35,685 - I agree. As you grew up 556 00:26:36,185 --> 00:26:40,445 and did you think, okay, now I'm gonna go off to college 557 00:26:40,745 --> 00:26:42,565 and become part of the American dream? 558 00:26:42,745 --> 00:26:44,325 Or did you take some time? 559 00:26:44,725 --> 00:26:47,645 'cause you had a lot of what we like to call trauma . 560 00:26:47,645 --> 00:26:49,605 Yeah. To unburden yourself from 561 00:26:50,675 --> 00:26:52,725 - Yeah, unfortunately, uh, 562 00:26:52,755 --> 00:26:55,405 because of my , uh, traumas 563 00:26:55,905 --> 00:26:59,925 and not having, um, someone there, I got, like I said, 564 00:27:00,045 --> 00:27:03,685 I got into, uh, gang behavior and drugs and all that. 565 00:27:04,345 --> 00:27:08,005 And it, yeah, I got in so much trouble 566 00:27:08,195 --> 00:27:11,245 that my father decided to pull me outta school 567 00:27:11,985 --> 00:27:13,085 in the middle of eighth grade. 568 00:27:13,185 --> 00:27:15,005 So I didn't even finish eighth, I didn't go to high school. 569 00:27:15,125 --> 00:27:17,965 I didn't finish eighth grade. And I ended up just getting my 570 00:27:18,125 --> 00:27:19,445 GED and I went straight to college, 571 00:27:20,095 --> 00:27:21,925 which was probably, it was a great thing. 572 00:27:21,945 --> 00:27:23,925 And I got a full-time job and all that. 573 00:27:24,865 --> 00:27:29,645 And yet still, it, there was this trauma, people 574 00:27:29,645 --> 00:27:31,965 that have trauma, I understand what they go through. 575 00:27:32,165 --> 00:27:35,125 I smoked for 24 years, and it was 576 00:27:35,125 --> 00:27:38,325 because it was to keep this feeling inside, 577 00:27:38,335 --> 00:27:39,565 which feels like this. 578 00:27:39,585 --> 00:27:42,845 You're on this edge of rage, but you don't know why. 579 00:27:43,585 --> 00:27:47,325 It kept that, you know, um, in, uh, 580 00:27:47,465 --> 00:27:49,085 at bay, it kept it in check. 581 00:27:49,795 --> 00:27:52,375 And I remember the, my lowest lows was, uh, 582 00:27:52,455 --> 00:27:53,495 I was doing a lot of drugs 583 00:27:53,795 --> 00:27:56,975 and I was, I mean, I was on my way 584 00:27:57,355 --> 00:27:58,815 to exit pretty much. 585 00:27:59,075 --> 00:28:00,255 That's how bad it was. 586 00:28:01,395 --> 00:28:04,335 And I remember my parents couldn't do anything 587 00:28:04,335 --> 00:28:07,015 because they didn't really, they weren't there 588 00:28:07,015 --> 00:28:08,495 to discipline me to begin with. 589 00:28:08,755 --> 00:28:10,295 So it's like, now they're gonna come in 590 00:28:10,295 --> 00:28:11,895 and tell me, well, I don't think I'm gonna listen 591 00:28:11,895 --> 00:28:12,975 to you, type of thing. 592 00:28:13,795 --> 00:28:16,015 So then I told my parents, I said, look, 593 00:28:16,075 --> 00:28:19,135 you're gonna take me to my cousin's place, 594 00:28:19,715 --> 00:28:21,175 and you guys are gonna leave me there, 595 00:28:22,065 --> 00:28:25,835 because if I did, I knew if I did not leave, I, 596 00:28:25,955 --> 00:28:27,075 I would pretty much die. 597 00:28:27,775 --> 00:28:31,275 And, and I, quite frankly, at that time, I really, 598 00:28:31,995 --> 00:28:35,915 I was kind of like, okay, well if I do, then I do so. 599 00:28:36,695 --> 00:28:39,355 And my mom thought, you know, what are you, she, 600 00:28:39,415 --> 00:28:41,435 you can't just go live with somebody else 601 00:28:41,735 --> 00:28:43,875 and you think she's just going to take you in. 602 00:28:44,135 --> 00:28:46,715 But I'm like, I don't know. We're gonna find out . 603 00:28:47,775 --> 00:28:49,875 So, and, and this time, I'm sorry, 604 00:28:50,295 --> 00:28:51,595 to jump back in the story, 605 00:28:51,595 --> 00:28:54,235 we were living in Arizona out of all places. 606 00:28:55,055 --> 00:28:56,395 Not my favorite place, . 607 00:28:56,895 --> 00:28:58,435 So we drove back to California 608 00:28:58,975 --> 00:29:01,075 and, um, we stayed for the weekend. 609 00:29:01,255 --> 00:29:03,155 And the next day, as my parents are leaving, 610 00:29:03,335 --> 00:29:05,515 my mom pulls aside my cousin Nin. 611 00:29:05,935 --> 00:29:07,555 And he tells, she tells her, well, 612 00:29:07,555 --> 00:29:09,835 what gonna leave Barsova here with you? 613 00:29:10,055 --> 00:29:12,475 And she is like, what now, ? 614 00:29:12,975 --> 00:29:14,715 And she's like, yeah, I think she needs 615 00:29:14,715 --> 00:29:15,875 to stay with you for a while. 616 00:29:16,055 --> 00:29:18,515 And it was kind of like everybody knew what's going on, 617 00:29:18,515 --> 00:29:19,915 but no one's saying anything. 618 00:29:20,415 --> 00:29:23,195 One of those things. And she, you know, 619 00:29:23,195 --> 00:29:25,155 she accepted and she took me in. 620 00:29:25,535 --> 00:29:27,715 And that changed my life. 621 00:29:28,705 --> 00:29:32,515 That was one of my turning points where I got 622 00:29:32,515 --> 00:29:34,315 to see a completely different life. 623 00:29:35,585 --> 00:29:38,285 It was refreshing. It was a fresh breath of air. 624 00:29:38,745 --> 00:29:41,965 And it was, she was so, um, she was always there. 625 00:29:42,105 --> 00:29:43,445 She was a lot more tender. 626 00:29:43,705 --> 00:29:46,245 She was like, she's like a second mom to me, in a sense. 627 00:29:46,705 --> 00:29:49,045 At the time, I was probably 18 or so. 628 00:29:50,105 --> 00:29:54,045 So I cleaned up my, I was working there and I cleaned up, 629 00:29:54,105 --> 00:29:56,125 and then all fast forward a little bit. 630 00:29:56,695 --> 00:29:57,725 Still smoking though. 631 00:29:59,235 --> 00:30:01,495 That's, that was a tough one to, to give up. 632 00:30:01,685 --> 00:30:05,175 Then I decided, I got to a point, uh, 633 00:30:05,175 --> 00:30:06,815 because given everything I went through, 634 00:30:06,895 --> 00:30:07,935 I never wanted to get married. 635 00:30:08,555 --> 00:30:10,215 And I never wanted to have kids 636 00:30:10,605 --> 00:30:12,975 because I, I couldn't even deal with myself 637 00:30:12,975 --> 00:30:16,135 and my own skin, let alone bring another human being in the 638 00:30:16,135 --> 00:30:20,175 world and be with a partner that I trust being with. 639 00:30:20,315 --> 00:30:22,215 It was just, it was, I couldn't do it. 640 00:30:22,995 --> 00:30:25,215 So then finally when I got myself to a point 641 00:30:25,215 --> 00:30:27,975 where I was starting to feel a little bit better about, uh, 642 00:30:28,275 --> 00:30:31,895 myself, I, um, decided maybe I do wanna get married. 643 00:30:32,775 --> 00:30:36,765 Maybe I, you know, so decided to get married. 644 00:30:37,225 --> 00:30:39,365 And I thought, oh, gonna marry a Persian. 645 00:30:39,545 --> 00:30:42,845 And he's a Baha and he's a friend of the family. 646 00:30:42,985 --> 00:30:44,805 You know, all the check marks are checked. 647 00:30:44,995 --> 00:30:46,565 This is gonna be great. . 648 00:30:47,275 --> 00:30:49,725 Well, it turned out to be the worst marriage . 649 00:30:51,065 --> 00:30:54,315 Well, the next worst thing in my life I did, 650 00:30:55,255 --> 00:30:59,195 and this was, it turned out to be verbally abusive, 651 00:31:00,425 --> 00:31:02,165 and it got to physical abuse. 652 00:31:03,185 --> 00:31:05,125 And it was, and I would have to say, 653 00:31:05,175 --> 00:31:09,445 given I experienced both, the verbal abuse is far greater. 654 00:31:09,585 --> 00:31:13,605 It, it has a lasting on unfortunate impression on, 655 00:31:13,745 --> 00:31:17,245 on someone when they get verbally abused. Um, 656 00:31:17,665 --> 00:31:19,685 - It rewires the brain for certain, 657 00:31:20,475 --> 00:31:21,475 - Yeah. 658 00:31:21,475 --> 00:31:24,485 You lose all self-worth all self-confidence, you know? 659 00:31:25,065 --> 00:31:27,805 And, um, I stayed longer than I should have. 660 00:31:28,665 --> 00:31:29,965 And when I got divorced, 661 00:31:30,525 --> 00:31:32,205 I did finally end up getting a divorce. 662 00:31:32,485 --> 00:31:35,645 I, I couldn't take it. And he actually lived in Belgium. 663 00:31:36,065 --> 00:31:39,165 So I had moved to Belgium to a whole complete another, 664 00:31:39,165 --> 00:31:40,645 another new country . 665 00:31:42,455 --> 00:31:44,715 I'm just, yeah, I just like pain, I guess. . 666 00:31:44,855 --> 00:31:46,355 - And how old were you at this point? 667 00:31:46,935 --> 00:31:50,465 - At this time, I was 27. Yeah, 27. 668 00:31:51,525 --> 00:31:52,745 Uh, moved to Belgium. 669 00:31:53,005 --> 00:31:55,505 And then when that went completely south, 670 00:31:56,245 --> 00:31:59,985 and I would say if I were to take everything 671 00:31:59,985 --> 00:32:04,865 and sum it up, that was like the, what do you call it? 672 00:32:05,045 --> 00:32:06,905 It topped everything else off 673 00:32:07,455 --> 00:32:09,665 that I had experience and just the 674 00:32:09,665 --> 00:32:11,545 - Cherry, proverbial cherry on the cake. 675 00:32:11,845 --> 00:32:13,105 - Yes. That's what it was. 676 00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:17,305 And I felt like, yeah, I can't even explain 677 00:32:17,405 --> 00:32:19,305 how broken a person feels 678 00:32:19,845 --> 00:32:23,505 and everything just kind of was like, okay, well, you know, 679 00:32:23,545 --> 00:32:25,625 I had to, I came back to the States 680 00:32:25,885 --> 00:32:27,505 and I had to start all over again 681 00:32:27,605 --> 00:32:29,905 and trying to put my life together, 682 00:32:29,905 --> 00:32:31,185 figure out what I'm gonna do. 683 00:32:31,845 --> 00:32:34,545 - Did you fall back into old habits at that point? 684 00:32:35,005 --> 00:32:37,505 - Oh, when I ca first came back, yes. . Yeah, 685 00:32:38,025 --> 00:32:39,025 - I would imagine. 686 00:32:39,025 --> 00:32:39,885 - I mean, why wouldn't you? Right? 687 00:32:40,355 --> 00:32:43,245 Yeah, I was, I was drinking quite a bit. 688 00:32:43,825 --> 00:32:46,805 It was mostly drinking, I would say, you know, as far as 689 00:32:47,275 --> 00:32:49,285 that point, doing any kind of drugs, 690 00:32:49,405 --> 00:32:51,045 I might have done a little bit here and there, 691 00:32:51,145 --> 00:32:53,205 but not as much as I was doing drinking 692 00:32:53,265 --> 00:32:55,565 and smoking three months of, or, 693 00:32:55,585 --> 00:33:00,485 or so, of just every single night of, uh, 694 00:33:01,005 --> 00:33:02,925 drinking and trying to think what I'm gonna do 695 00:33:02,945 --> 00:33:05,325 and what am I doing, and what is this life about? 696 00:33:05,905 --> 00:33:07,285 And everything is just pain 697 00:33:07,305 --> 00:33:08,765 and what the hell am I even doing 698 00:33:09,165 --> 00:33:10,565 , you know, what is this? 699 00:33:10,875 --> 00:33:13,325 It's just been crap from day one type of thing. 700 00:33:14,225 --> 00:33:17,605 So then I said, okay, you know what? 701 00:33:17,795 --> 00:33:20,485 This, when when you, then I started getting mad, 702 00:33:20,485 --> 00:33:22,005 then you get in the angry phase. 703 00:33:22,915 --> 00:33:26,405 When I got in the angry phase, I started doing things. 704 00:33:27,165 --> 00:33:28,805 I said, okay, I'm gonna go back to college. 705 00:33:29,105 --> 00:33:32,365 I'm, I went back to college, got my old job back, 706 00:33:33,115 --> 00:33:34,965 started working, going back to college. 707 00:33:36,255 --> 00:33:40,915 And then, um, one of my friends, he said, uh, 708 00:33:41,775 --> 00:33:44,835 he, he said, why don't you try this network marketing thing? 709 00:33:45,495 --> 00:33:49,235 And I've never had any interest. I said, okay, whatever. 710 00:33:49,385 --> 00:33:50,395 Sign me up. I don't care. 711 00:33:51,055 --> 00:33:52,355 And I went to one meeting, 712 00:33:52,935 --> 00:33:56,355 and from this one meeting, the guy said, oh, 713 00:33:56,355 --> 00:33:58,835 we're gonna have a speaker at one of our annual events. 714 00:33:58,975 --> 00:34:01,475 And he, this guy is from one of the guys 715 00:34:01,475 --> 00:34:03,515 that was in The Secret, I don't know if you're familiar. 716 00:34:03,785 --> 00:34:07,275 Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . So I was like, yeah, okay, 717 00:34:07,385 --> 00:34:08,595 I'll go check it out, whatever. 718 00:34:09,295 --> 00:34:12,635 So I went and I saw him speak, 719 00:34:13,215 --> 00:34:16,435 and it happened to be, um, uh, James, Arthur Ray. 720 00:34:16,775 --> 00:34:19,835 And, and I'll, and I'll tell the rest of the story, , 721 00:34:20,375 --> 00:34:22,315 he, uh, I saw him speak 722 00:34:22,415 --> 00:34:25,875 and when I saw him on stage, it, it grabbed me 723 00:34:25,875 --> 00:34:29,235 because he was so raw and real, 724 00:34:29,935 --> 00:34:33,115 and I totally could, uh, relate to him 725 00:34:33,115 --> 00:34:35,435 because of my own pain that I was going through. 726 00:34:35,435 --> 00:34:37,635 And he was going through his own, um, pain 727 00:34:37,695 --> 00:34:39,475 as well, uh, come to find out. 728 00:34:39,975 --> 00:34:43,995 So anyway, I liked how when he came into the room, 729 00:34:44,015 --> 00:34:45,435 it was like this, you could just feel it, 730 00:34:45,435 --> 00:34:47,555 it was like this surge of something. 731 00:34:48,705 --> 00:34:52,115 Some, it, it was a, it was a good energy vibe 732 00:34:52,575 --> 00:34:53,595 and it was strong. 733 00:34:54,175 --> 00:34:56,195 And I was like, I want some of that 734 00:34:56,225 --> 00:34:58,955 because I don't have at all. 735 00:34:59,375 --> 00:35:00,395 So I went up and, 736 00:35:00,415 --> 00:35:02,795 and I, I did, I kind of stalked them on Facebook 737 00:35:03,375 --> 00:35:05,035 and I got a job with them, . 738 00:35:05,555 --> 00:35:08,195 I said, hire me. Here's what I do, . 739 00:35:08,975 --> 00:35:10,595 And I don't care what it is I do. 740 00:35:10,795 --> 00:35:13,035 'cause I told him everything I do administrative work, 741 00:35:13,195 --> 00:35:14,915 I do graphic design work and all this. 742 00:35:14,915 --> 00:35:17,675 And blah. I ended up doing his, um, uh, 743 00:35:17,675 --> 00:35:19,235 social media for him online. 744 00:35:19,695 --> 00:35:23,875 So he's in the space of helping you get through your stuff 745 00:35:23,975 --> 00:35:26,395 and dealing with your traumas and learning. 746 00:35:26,695 --> 00:35:27,715 And he doesn't like 747 00:35:27,715 --> 00:35:30,315 to be put in the personal development, what do you call it? 748 00:35:30,635 --> 00:35:33,555 Category. And I've never been fond of it either. 749 00:35:34,015 --> 00:35:37,885 So through the, we end up becoming really good friends. 750 00:35:38,365 --> 00:35:39,365 'cause we used to hang out 751 00:35:39,365 --> 00:35:41,165 with each other all the time 'cause we worked together. 752 00:35:41,385 --> 00:35:43,805 So we became really good friends. 753 00:35:44,065 --> 00:35:45,245 And at the time, I didn't wanna 754 00:35:45,245 --> 00:35:46,405 have anything to do with a man. 755 00:35:46,505 --> 00:35:49,045 And he didn't wanna have anything to do with a woman kind 756 00:35:49,045 --> 00:35:50,885 of figure where I'm going with the story, . 757 00:35:52,265 --> 00:35:54,605 So I'm working for him. And it was a fantastic job. 758 00:35:54,765 --> 00:35:57,695 I love my job. And we became really good friends. 759 00:35:57,715 --> 00:35:58,975 We had a good time together. 760 00:35:59,075 --> 00:36:01,375 And I, and then you could tell 761 00:36:01,375 --> 00:36:03,575 that there's, um, what do you call it? 762 00:36:03,715 --> 00:36:05,175 The, the attraction is there. 763 00:36:05,835 --> 00:36:07,575 So then we decided to talk about that. 764 00:36:08,155 --> 00:36:10,695 And we did, we talked about it in, in spades. 765 00:36:10,695 --> 00:36:13,095 Should we get into a relat? Should we not? 766 00:36:13,095 --> 00:36:16,095 Should we, should we not? And we decided to. 767 00:36:17,075 --> 00:36:19,375 And uh, we ended up getting married. 768 00:36:20,395 --> 00:36:23,295 And now, uh, he works for me. No, I'm kidding. 769 00:36:24,015 --> 00:36:26,895 - . All men work for their women. 770 00:36:27,395 --> 00:36:31,255 Uh, . Uh, do you, how did you, 771 00:36:31,665 --> 00:36:35,735 along the way then, you're still carrying this trauma, 772 00:36:36,115 --> 00:36:38,375 how did you unravel that? 773 00:36:38,555 --> 00:36:40,335 And maybe you did it with your husband, 774 00:36:40,955 --> 00:36:42,455 it sounded like maybe you were trauma 775 00:36:42,485 --> 00:36:43,935 bonding a little bit with each other. 776 00:36:44,245 --> 00:36:46,855 Sure. How do you, how did you start to where, 777 00:36:46,855 --> 00:36:48,455 what turned the corner, I guess is I'm asking? 778 00:36:49,155 --> 00:36:52,455 - So he didn't know. I smoked . Let me start there. 779 00:36:53,215 --> 00:36:55,655 'cause I've smoked for a very long time. It was 24 years. 780 00:36:56,355 --> 00:36:59,615 And I had gotten to a point where I said, okay, if I'm going 781 00:36:59,615 --> 00:37:01,935 to keep my one relationship with them, 782 00:37:01,935 --> 00:37:04,495 second my job, I have to. 783 00:37:04,915 --> 00:37:07,175 And I wanted to quit. See, I, I wanted to quit. 784 00:37:07,175 --> 00:37:10,855 Ever since I started, I, I, what I really wanted was 785 00:37:10,855 --> 00:37:14,215 to be able to live a life that didn't have any 786 00:37:14,215 --> 00:37:15,215 of these attachments. 787 00:37:15,595 --> 00:37:18,135 You know, when you go through these things and these traumas 788 00:37:18,135 --> 00:37:20,295 and you have these bad habits, you, you, 789 00:37:20,995 --> 00:37:24,295 you can't see like the day, the, the light of day. 790 00:37:25,075 --> 00:37:27,465 And what I really wanted was a life 791 00:37:27,465 --> 00:37:28,985 that didn't have any of that. 792 00:37:29,205 --> 00:37:31,105 Is that even possible? Right? 793 00:37:31,925 --> 00:37:35,585 And for an addict, you think there's, there's no way. 794 00:37:36,125 --> 00:37:37,545 How can that even be possible 795 00:37:37,545 --> 00:37:39,425 because you think that's who you are. 796 00:37:40,365 --> 00:37:44,225 So I told him, Hey, so I smoke 797 00:37:45,465 --> 00:37:48,505 and I kind of need your help to quit. 798 00:37:49,245 --> 00:37:51,625 And he's sweet enough. He was like, okay. 799 00:37:52,545 --> 00:37:56,085 Uh, he took it well, and he did help me. 800 00:37:56,145 --> 00:37:58,765 And what I did this time, here's what I did, 801 00:37:58,765 --> 00:38:02,205 and this is how I, uh, went through all the traumas, 802 00:38:02,205 --> 00:38:06,205 and he helped me with it as well, was I quit. 803 00:38:06,545 --> 00:38:10,745 But what I didn't do was substitute for something else 804 00:38:11,205 --> 00:38:13,425 to suppress whatever was coming out. 805 00:38:14,445 --> 00:38:18,825 And it was not fun. I mean, it was, it was a hellacious. 806 00:38:19,285 --> 00:38:23,505 The first year was super hell , and he stuck with me, 807 00:38:23,605 --> 00:38:24,865 and we worked through it. 808 00:38:24,925 --> 00:38:27,745 And I had, and I was lucky enough to have someone with me 809 00:38:28,095 --> 00:38:30,545 that this is pretty much what he does for a living. 810 00:38:31,875 --> 00:38:35,775 And here's the other, the, the other interesting part was I, 811 00:38:35,935 --> 00:38:39,575 I didn't, um, I was skeptical of these kind of stuff. 812 00:38:39,695 --> 00:38:42,055 I mean, you can't help me with my trauma, you know? 813 00:38:42,315 --> 00:38:44,615 - So he was, so your husband was the one 814 00:38:44,615 --> 00:38:46,935 that was basically being the therapist, 815 00:38:46,955 --> 00:38:48,415 for lack of a better word? Or, 816 00:38:48,765 --> 00:38:49,765 - Yeah. 817 00:38:49,765 --> 00:38:52,175 And I'll tell you, you can say, yeah, you can say that. 818 00:38:52,405 --> 00:38:55,935 Sure. I remember the first time we did, he, he, we didn't, 819 00:38:55,935 --> 00:38:57,775 we do these things, it's called like a process, 820 00:38:57,955 --> 00:39:00,815 and it's like a, um, it's a meditative, 821 00:39:01,375 --> 00:39:03,295 experiential, uh, thing. 822 00:39:03,295 --> 00:39:06,175 You go through where he was doing, 823 00:39:06,195 --> 00:39:07,775 and he said, let's just do it for fun, 824 00:39:07,775 --> 00:39:09,335 because I wasn't open to doing it. 825 00:39:09,835 --> 00:39:11,015 I'm like, yeah, I'm not, 826 00:39:11,115 --> 00:39:13,655 I'm not gonna let anybody in here type of thing. 827 00:39:13,835 --> 00:39:15,455 So, so we did it. 828 00:39:15,755 --> 00:39:20,375 And what happened was that I had this physiological reaction 829 00:39:20,375 --> 00:39:23,215 to it where I started having a panic attack. 830 00:39:23,955 --> 00:39:28,265 And then I thought, holy crap, there's, this stuff is real. 831 00:39:29,525 --> 00:39:30,865 And that's, and 832 00:39:30,865 --> 00:39:32,345 - It's down deep. Yeah. 833 00:39:32,765 --> 00:39:33,785 - It was really deep 834 00:39:33,785 --> 00:39:36,465 because it was something I thought, I, 835 00:39:36,925 --> 00:39:38,025 you know, just forget it. 836 00:39:38,055 --> 00:39:40,665 It's okay. You know, it's not that big of a deal, 837 00:39:41,325 --> 00:39:43,665 and that's what you tell yourself to be able to cope. 838 00:39:44,325 --> 00:39:45,385 But I thought, wow. 839 00:39:45,775 --> 00:39:47,265 - Yeah, when it comes out, it feels, 840 00:39:48,305 --> 00:39:51,625 I use the word primal when I've gone through that kind 841 00:39:51,625 --> 00:39:55,145 of an experience, uh, doing for myself, it was energy work, 842 00:39:55,205 --> 00:39:59,705 but having it manifest itself into basically 843 00:40:00,445 --> 00:40:04,385 primal screaming and feeling like a, almost like an infant. 844 00:40:04,455 --> 00:40:06,105 Just wailing. Yeah. 845 00:40:06,495 --> 00:40:07,705 - Yeah. It's - Like where that, 846 00:40:07,725 --> 00:40:11,305 and having your brain go, okay, I know I'm here in this room 847 00:40:11,365 --> 00:40:13,905 and I'm not that person that's screaming and wailing. 848 00:40:13,925 --> 00:40:17,225 That's insane. But you're the person screaming and wailing 849 00:40:17,285 --> 00:40:19,945 and it's like, it comes out of some part of you. 850 00:40:20,695 --> 00:40:22,145 It's a Pandora's box, right. 851 00:40:22,145 --> 00:40:24,225 That you've locked away, thrown the key. 852 00:40:24,695 --> 00:40:25,705 - Yeah, for sure. 853 00:40:26,305 --> 00:40:28,985 I mean, it was, it was, and that made me a believer. 854 00:40:29,605 --> 00:40:32,185 I'm like, okay, , but then let's go to town. 855 00:40:32,235 --> 00:40:34,105 Let's see, you know, what's in there. 856 00:40:34,565 --> 00:40:38,345 So we, he, we started doing the work, and as we did that, 857 00:40:38,805 --> 00:40:40,185 and I will tell you, okay, 858 00:40:40,245 --> 00:40:43,945 not only doing the energetic work, like you said, right? 859 00:40:44,905 --> 00:40:48,265 I did other things as far as, uh, your physical body. 860 00:40:48,445 --> 00:40:51,505 So I changed my diet. I started eating cleaner. 861 00:40:52,365 --> 00:40:56,065 So I did it very slowly in the stages until I got 862 00:40:56,085 --> 00:41:00,145 to a point, it wasn't, uh, it, it, 863 00:41:00,145 --> 00:41:01,745 it had subsided quite a bit. 864 00:41:02,045 --> 00:41:06,505 It didn't have, because I always had this, um, edge 865 00:41:07,955 --> 00:41:12,165 that was on the verge of, um, what's that? 866 00:41:12,265 --> 00:41:13,325 Um, not anger, 867 00:41:13,545 --> 00:41:18,085 but above anger, rage, , I, I, 868 00:41:18,425 --> 00:41:19,965 it is a pretty horrible feeling. 869 00:41:20,225 --> 00:41:22,325 And the way I would take that edge off 870 00:41:22,345 --> 00:41:24,605 before was with either drugged their cigarettes. 871 00:41:24,605 --> 00:41:26,045 So then I started working out 872 00:41:26,625 --> 00:41:29,605 and I started doing intense workouts to subside that. 873 00:41:30,425 --> 00:41:32,805 So then I did this for a long period of time, 874 00:41:32,985 --> 00:41:37,685 and I can tell you the first year that I started feeling 875 00:41:39,005 --> 00:41:40,645 somewhat, I could say normal 876 00:41:41,065 --> 00:41:44,525 and not need to do anything, to have to subside any 877 00:41:44,525 --> 00:41:48,245 of these feelings and just be a normal person, was, 878 00:41:48,465 --> 00:41:50,845 um, two years ago, 879 00:41:52,305 --> 00:41:56,765 so it's been seven years total that I've quit everything. 880 00:41:57,965 --> 00:42:00,165 Anything like drugs, alcohol, um, 881 00:42:00,215 --> 00:42:01,605 cigarettes, all that stuff. 882 00:42:02,185 --> 00:42:06,045 - And I, I do think that it is sometimes even the things 883 00:42:06,045 --> 00:42:07,685 that seemingly are good for us, 884 00:42:08,025 --> 00:42:09,805 and I talk about that on the show a lot, 885 00:42:10,115 --> 00:42:13,325 that you can replace an addiction with something 886 00:42:13,325 --> 00:42:14,405 that is seemingly healthy, 887 00:42:14,585 --> 00:42:16,405 but it still isn't really getting 888 00:42:16,465 --> 00:42:17,525 to the root of the problem. 889 00:42:17,755 --> 00:42:19,205 It's just still masking it. 890 00:42:19,205 --> 00:42:22,365 Running 30 miles a week isn't, 891 00:42:22,585 --> 00:42:25,485 it might be a healthier response than smoking or drinking 892 00:42:25,625 --> 00:42:28,245 or doing drugs, but it doesn't, still doesn't get 893 00:42:28,245 --> 00:42:29,325 to the root. 894 00:42:29,945 --> 00:42:31,805 - Oh, that's, that's a great point. Yes. 895 00:42:31,805 --> 00:42:36,365 Because e exactly to your point, I, I did that for, 896 00:42:36,585 --> 00:42:39,405 um, short periods of time, meaning, so I would do that 897 00:42:39,405 --> 00:42:42,165 to subside it, and then we go and deal with what's next. 898 00:42:42,465 --> 00:42:44,285 And it's, and, and, and I think a lot of people, 899 00:42:45,065 --> 00:42:46,325 it is good for them to know. 900 00:42:46,665 --> 00:42:50,445 And I'm sure, you know, it takes a, it takes a lot of work 901 00:42:50,545 --> 00:42:53,965 and it takes a long time to clean all this stuff out. 902 00:42:54,525 --> 00:42:56,365 - I don't even know that it ever ends, honestly. 903 00:42:56,525 --> 00:42:59,125 I think it's an ongoing process of just life. 904 00:42:59,125 --> 00:43:01,205 Because I, I mean, I think about what's going on in the 905 00:43:01,205 --> 00:43:03,565 world right now, and I think, well, how do you, 906 00:43:04,365 --> 00:43:08,965 somebody who's been through war torn countries and horror 907 00:43:09,105 --> 00:43:13,485 and bombs dropping, that has to, I would imagine, uh, 908 00:43:13,825 --> 00:43:17,525 create A-P-T-S-D of, in a sense, to even turn on the news 909 00:43:17,545 --> 00:43:18,965 and see what's going on in Gaza 910 00:43:18,965 --> 00:43:21,405 or, you know, uh, any of the number of places 911 00:43:21,455 --> 00:43:24,965 where these sorts of things happen on a daily basis. 912 00:43:25,915 --> 00:43:28,525 - Sure. Yeah. No, I, I totally agree. 913 00:43:28,705 --> 00:43:32,045 The only differences when you do the cleanup work on 914 00:43:32,245 --> 00:43:36,445 yourself is this, you don't have your past tr you are 915 00:43:36,465 --> 00:43:37,765 not, um, let's see. 916 00:43:37,905 --> 00:43:39,725 You're not emotionally hooked by them. 917 00:43:40,305 --> 00:43:42,725 So they no longer control you. They're there. Mm. 918 00:43:43,355 --> 00:43:46,045 View 'em as an experience that you have gained, 919 00:43:46,705 --> 00:43:49,685 and it no longer triggers you where you're reacting. 920 00:43:49,865 --> 00:43:52,125 Now you have the ability to see things 921 00:43:52,505 --> 00:43:55,725 and choose to act, which is totally different, right. 922 00:43:56,115 --> 00:43:59,805 - That is alchemy. - Yeah. Yes, it is. . 923 00:44:00,825 --> 00:44:03,365 So you're, yeah. So, you know, yes, it is. 924 00:44:03,595 --> 00:44:05,165 It's absolutely taking something. It's 925 00:44:05,165 --> 00:44:06,965 - Transmuting the, the experience 926 00:44:07,225 --> 00:44:08,565 and turning it into something. 927 00:44:08,745 --> 00:44:11,365 It doesn't take away the experience. Mm-Hmm. . 928 00:44:11,665 --> 00:44:13,925 But it, it means that you don't react the same. 929 00:44:14,435 --> 00:44:16,325 - Yeah. And that, yeah, that's, that's, 930 00:44:16,325 --> 00:44:17,565 that is true alchemy. 931 00:44:17,565 --> 00:44:20,245 It's to be able to take something of lower value 932 00:44:20,625 --> 00:44:22,885 and transmitter than something of higher value. 933 00:44:23,625 --> 00:44:25,845 Mm-Hmm. , that's what it's, and, and, 934 00:44:25,985 --> 00:44:28,885 and I think if people look at their past experiences 935 00:44:29,705 --> 00:44:33,125 and say, not to look at 'em and go, oh, I've had it bad, 936 00:44:33,145 --> 00:44:36,165 or I've had it, you know, so crummy or my life is this 937 00:44:36,185 --> 00:44:41,005 or that, but those are the things that were gifted 938 00:44:41,005 --> 00:44:45,845 to you that was wrapped in, you know, crap for . 939 00:44:46,015 --> 00:44:48,965 Right? But if you could look at those 940 00:44:49,145 --> 00:44:52,685 and learn what you're supposed to learn from them, then it, 941 00:44:52,995 --> 00:44:55,325 then you become the person you're supposed to be, 942 00:44:55,665 --> 00:44:56,845 become in the first place. 943 00:44:57,705 --> 00:45:00,845 And it, and it does lead you to where you're supposed 944 00:45:00,845 --> 00:45:03,205 to live, the life that you're supposed to live. 945 00:45:03,435 --> 00:45:05,765 Like, if you would've told me 10 years ago 946 00:45:06,155 --> 00:45:08,045 that I would have the life that I have now 947 00:45:08,265 --> 00:45:10,605 and become the person that I am now, I would say, 948 00:45:10,605 --> 00:45:13,245 there's no way you're, you're smoking something. 949 00:45:13,245 --> 00:45:16,445 Because that, I, I don't even, that's not even in my view. 950 00:45:16,685 --> 00:45:19,685 I can't even picture that. How is that even possible? 951 00:45:20,025 --> 00:45:21,365 And yet it's possible. 952 00:45:22,385 --> 00:45:24,725 And that, you know, if, if anyone would, 953 00:45:24,735 --> 00:45:28,765 could take anything from my story is if no matter 954 00:45:28,905 --> 00:45:30,285 how broken you feel, 955 00:45:31,105 --> 00:45:34,605 you can absolutely have a completely brand new life. 956 00:45:35,305 --> 00:45:36,405 You just have to work at it. 957 00:45:36,475 --> 00:45:37,845 It's hard, it's hard work, 958 00:45:38,265 --> 00:45:39,805 but it'll be the best work you've 959 00:45:39,805 --> 00:45:40,885 ever done in your entire life. 960 00:45:42,395 --> 00:45:44,445 - What was the most surprising thing about yourself 961 00:45:44,445 --> 00:45:47,205 that you discovered in that seven year process? 962 00:45:47,585 --> 00:45:49,605 And I'm sure it's, oh, you're still discovering, 963 00:45:49,665 --> 00:45:52,725 but some sort of overarching theme. 964 00:45:53,225 --> 00:45:57,365 - Ooh, okay. I've heard that this kind 965 00:45:57,365 --> 00:45:59,485 of stuff could run in the family genes. 966 00:45:59,625 --> 00:46:01,645 So I don't know if that's true, 967 00:46:01,785 --> 00:46:06,725 but it's, it's the saying, um, my mom, uh, does, uh, 968 00:46:06,795 --> 00:46:11,045 fortune readings, which is, here's a psychic, uh, doing she, 969 00:46:11,045 --> 00:46:15,365 but she does it with coffee . Are you familiar? 970 00:46:15,585 --> 00:46:18,685 - That's so cool. Yeah. She reads the coffee ground. Yes, 971 00:46:18,905 --> 00:46:19,905 - She does. 972 00:46:19,905 --> 00:46:21,445 And she's really good . 973 00:46:21,905 --> 00:46:24,525 So, and I grew up with that. 974 00:46:24,625 --> 00:46:27,565 So I've seen some really like things that are, 975 00:46:27,615 --> 00:46:29,245 could be concerned out there. 976 00:46:29,715 --> 00:46:34,445 Okay. And I'm, and for me, I'm very much a, a practical 977 00:46:34,465 --> 00:46:36,725 and that, so I become really skeptical of things 978 00:46:36,725 --> 00:46:39,925 unless if it's like you prove it to me, which is silly. 979 00:46:40,475 --> 00:46:42,245 I've learned that in the long run. 980 00:46:42,595 --> 00:46:47,195 I've always had this, um, I guess you could say, ability 981 00:46:47,415 --> 00:46:50,755 or something where I can pick up on other people. 982 00:46:51,215 --> 00:46:55,865 And it's to the point where it was too much as a kid, 983 00:46:56,445 --> 00:46:58,785 and I didn't want to, that was a whole nother thing 984 00:46:58,855 --> 00:47:01,145 that was added on top of my own thing. 985 00:47:01,255 --> 00:47:03,945 Because if you can't deal with your own space, 986 00:47:04,525 --> 00:47:06,625 and then you get other people's space in you, 987 00:47:06,655 --> 00:47:08,185 then you just, you just lose it. 988 00:47:08,285 --> 00:47:09,425 You can't deal with it. 989 00:47:10,525 --> 00:47:13,745 So, and I, and I didn't wanna have anything to do with it, 990 00:47:13,745 --> 00:47:16,185 because I've seen her go into spaces 991 00:47:16,275 --> 00:47:18,065 where sometimes she didn't come out. 992 00:47:18,605 --> 00:47:20,305 She would pass out. It would kind of take over. 993 00:47:20,365 --> 00:47:21,385 So it kind of scared me. 994 00:47:22,125 --> 00:47:24,585 So when I started cleaning up, 995 00:47:25,325 --> 00:47:27,015 then these things started becoming more, 996 00:47:28,245 --> 00:47:31,645 and I thought, oh my God, what is going on? 997 00:47:32,945 --> 00:47:35,925 So I talked to a, uh, friend of ours, 998 00:47:35,945 --> 00:47:37,205 and she's a psychic too, 999 00:47:37,825 --> 00:47:40,885 and she was telling me, um, she, she, 1000 00:47:40,945 --> 00:47:45,595 she taught me the difference of, uh, how to hone it 1001 00:47:46,215 --> 00:47:50,755 and how to notice what's yours, like my own thoughts 1002 00:47:50,755 --> 00:47:52,555 and feelings and what's another, 1003 00:47:53,895 --> 00:47:58,435 and she also told me, uh, you need to start doing, uh, 1004 00:47:58,555 --> 00:47:59,595 readings for people. 1005 00:48:00,545 --> 00:48:02,285 And I said, I am not gonna do that. 1006 00:48:03,265 --> 00:48:05,045 You know, I fought at tooth and nail. 1007 00:48:05,145 --> 00:48:07,765 I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna do that. 1008 00:48:09,055 --> 00:48:10,635 So then my husband, 1009 00:48:10,945 --> 00:48:12,875 he's encouraging, he's like, you should do it. 1010 00:48:12,875 --> 00:48:14,035 You should do it. You should do it. 1011 00:48:14,055 --> 00:48:17,295 So then I picked someone that I knew well, 1012 00:48:17,725 --> 00:48:19,095 that if it didn't go well 1013 00:48:19,195 --> 00:48:21,775 and it's, you know, kind of just out there, then it's okay. 1014 00:48:21,775 --> 00:48:23,975 It's not a big deal. Right. 1015 00:48:24,955 --> 00:48:28,415 So I did it, and I, and I kid you not Susan, I went there. 1016 00:48:29,135 --> 00:48:33,215 I, I have my, uh, I do terres read with Terrell reading. 1017 00:48:33,835 --> 00:48:37,255 So I had all my stuff together, and I went and sat down 1018 00:48:37,595 --> 00:48:39,095 and the kid was sitting in front of me, 1019 00:48:39,155 --> 00:48:40,695 and I started laying things out. 1020 00:48:40,805 --> 00:48:42,055 Like, I've done this before. 1021 00:48:42,515 --> 00:48:44,575 It was the strangest thing in the world. 1022 00:48:45,395 --> 00:48:47,175 And I'm, it's like, I'm watching it in 1023 00:48:47,175 --> 00:48:48,415 third person, it's happening. 1024 00:48:48,515 --> 00:48:50,135 I'm like, how are you? Like, you don't even, 1025 00:48:50,205 --> 00:48:51,335 what are you doing right now? 1026 00:48:51,475 --> 00:48:53,575 How do you know what you're doing type of a thing. 1027 00:48:54,595 --> 00:48:57,615 So, and then I did it, uh, for this kid. 1028 00:48:58,635 --> 00:49:00,935 And when I say kid, he was 24 years old. 1029 00:49:00,935 --> 00:49:05,535 He was an, but I, but I did this session for him, 1030 00:49:06,965 --> 00:49:09,185 and the way it went into it, 1031 00:49:09,185 --> 00:49:13,465 because I don't just do like a reading, I, what I do is, 1032 00:49:13,765 --> 00:49:17,065 for example, if he's trying to get to something, 1033 00:49:17,365 --> 00:49:20,265 but he doesn't know how, like he has a problem inside. 1034 00:49:21,745 --> 00:49:24,605 Um, and he could be consciously not aware of it either. 1035 00:49:24,985 --> 00:49:27,725 So then I went in and I find what it is, 1036 00:49:27,865 --> 00:49:30,445 and then I take him , uh, 1037 00:49:30,585 --> 00:49:34,005 in this experiential meditative state to find 1038 00:49:34,235 --> 00:49:36,285 what the issue is and where it happened. 1039 00:49:36,385 --> 00:49:38,925 So it's kind of like a soul retrieval. Hmm. 1040 00:49:39,185 --> 00:49:42,645 Things that I've been, um, that, that I've experienced 1041 00:49:42,645 --> 00:49:44,645 and done the cleanup work on myself. 1042 00:49:45,265 --> 00:49:47,005 And so it took this whole turn 1043 00:49:47,865 --> 00:49:51,925 and afterwards he came out, it was such a buzz 1044 00:49:52,745 --> 00:49:54,285 of, I don't even know how to explain it. 1045 00:49:54,345 --> 00:49:57,685 The energy was so, uh, vibrant and full. 1046 00:49:58,765 --> 00:50:00,005 I was buzzed from it. 1047 00:50:00,025 --> 00:50:01,645 And he was sitting there looking at me, 1048 00:50:01,705 --> 00:50:02,845 and I was looking at him. 1049 00:50:02,855 --> 00:50:05,765 We're both going, what in the world just happened right now? 1050 00:50:05,965 --> 00:50:08,435 . And that's how it went down. 1051 00:50:08,615 --> 00:50:10,315 So, so then I said, okay, 1052 00:50:10,945 --> 00:50:12,515 well maybe I'm supposed to do this. 1053 00:50:12,615 --> 00:50:14,955 So then, so then I started doing it 1054 00:50:14,955 --> 00:50:16,795 because then he told me, he was like, well, 1055 00:50:16,795 --> 00:50:18,075 I wanna book sessions with you. 1056 00:50:18,095 --> 00:50:22,365 And I said, you want to do what ? I said, okay. 1057 00:50:22,825 --> 00:50:24,805 And this is a reason, 1058 00:50:25,025 --> 00:50:29,365 and the main reason why I I continued to do it was 1059 00:50:29,365 --> 00:50:34,285 because I saw the, um, what do you call it? 1060 00:50:34,305 --> 00:50:36,005 The, the practical results 1061 00:50:36,435 --> 00:50:38,365 that the people I work with were getting. 1062 00:50:39,305 --> 00:50:40,805 And I thought, what, it's not, 1063 00:50:40,805 --> 00:50:42,285 it's not up to me not to do it. 1064 00:50:42,845 --> 00:50:46,085 I have to do it because, and I get, 1065 00:50:46,225 --> 00:50:47,565 and interestingly enough, 1066 00:50:47,585 --> 00:50:51,645 and not, I get the individuals that have experienced 1067 00:50:52,165 --> 00:50:53,965 traumatic, traumatic traumas in their life. 1068 00:50:55,075 --> 00:50:59,495 And I help 'em, I guide them through with that process 1069 00:51:00,395 --> 00:51:01,975 to find what's going on 1070 00:51:02,075 --> 00:51:06,535 and, uh, uh, release themself from that experience one, 1071 00:51:06,535 --> 00:51:09,495 and get the learnings of what it was so they can, 1072 00:51:09,805 --> 00:51:11,415 they too can set themselves free. 1073 00:51:11,475 --> 00:51:15,175 So I couldn't, and I, until this day, it, 1074 00:51:15,275 --> 00:51:17,335 it amazes myself every time. 1075 00:51:17,335 --> 00:51:19,615 Yeah. 'cause you know, it is, it's not even you doing it, 1076 00:51:19,615 --> 00:51:21,215 it's whatever that's coming through you. 1077 00:51:21,405 --> 00:51:25,975 Yeah. That's doing conduit. Yeah. Yes, yes. You're 1078 00:51:26,095 --> 00:51:27,095 - A conduit. 1079 00:51:27,095 --> 00:51:27,975 - Yeah. That's the beautiful thing. 1080 00:51:27,995 --> 00:51:31,175 So if you clean up your body and you clean up your emotions 1081 00:51:31,435 --> 00:51:33,975 and you know, take out all the stimulants, 1082 00:51:34,665 --> 00:51:35,975 these things are there 1083 00:51:37,065 --> 00:51:39,365 and you become a much more clear conduit 1084 00:51:39,365 --> 00:51:41,085 for like you said. Yeah. Yeah. 1085 00:51:41,445 --> 00:51:43,725 - I love that. Tell people how they might find you. 1086 00:51:44,065 --> 00:51:47,405 - Oh, well, you could go to harmonic wealth global.com 1087 00:51:48,105 --> 00:51:49,245 and you could, um, 1088 00:51:49,665 --> 00:51:52,325 and you could find us all over social media too, 1089 00:51:52,465 --> 00:51:53,885 so Yeah. Yeah. 1090 00:51:54,075 --> 00:51:55,165 - I'll put all the links on. 1091 00:51:55,165 --> 00:51:57,085 Hey, human podcast link page too. Yeah. 1092 00:51:57,085 --> 00:51:58,725 - Perfect. Yeah, - Thank you so much. 1093 00:51:59,145 --> 00:52:01,125 It was really, it was lovely to meet you 1094 00:52:01,185 --> 00:52:03,565 and to hear your story, and I'm just happy 1095 00:52:03,595 --> 00:52:05,845 that you are in a space that's so 1096 00:52:06,435 --> 00:52:08,525 healing now. It's great. Yeah. 1097 00:52:08,735 --> 00:52:11,165 - Thank you, Susan. I appreciate you having me. Yeah, yeah. 1098 00:52:11,165 --> 00:52:12,165 Thanks for listening, 1099 00:52:13,125 --> 00:52:14,365 - . Have a great day. 1100 00:52:14,695 --> 00:52:15,765 - Thank you. You as well. 1101 00:52:16,065 --> 00:52:19,645 - Thanks for listening everybody. Bye. Bye. Bye. 1102 00:52:22,635 --> 00:52:25,965 Rate and review. Hey, human podcast on iTunes, Spotify, 1103 00:52:26,645 --> 00:52:28,005 wherever you get your podcasts. 1104 00:52:28,305 --> 00:52:30,045 Thanks for listening. Bye.