1 00:00:08,065 --> 00:00:08,525 - Hey, humans. 2 00:00:08,655 --> 00:00:10,525 How's it going? Susan Ruth here. 3 00:00:10,525 --> 00:00:12,445 Thanks for listening to another episode 4 00:00:12,825 --> 00:00:13,925 of Hey Human Podcast. 5 00:00:15,755 --> 00:00:20,365 - This - Is episode 3 96, and my guest is Caner Sherman. 6 00:00:21,015 --> 00:00:23,725 Caner was 43 when she was diagnosed 7 00:00:23,725 --> 00:00:25,245 with stage two rectal cancer. 8 00:00:25,975 --> 00:00:27,845 After holistic options failed. 9 00:00:28,225 --> 00:00:30,445 And in advanced to stage three, she opted 10 00:00:30,445 --> 00:00:32,085 for more traditional methods, 11 00:00:32,705 --> 00:00:35,365 but no one told her about the toll that would take on her, 12 00:00:36,325 --> 00:00:38,965 specifically on her sexual organs. 13 00:00:39,705 --> 00:00:44,565 And she wrote a book about her experience called Healing the 14 00:00:44,565 --> 00:00:48,725 Deepest Wounds, where she talks about the physical 15 00:00:48,825 --> 00:00:52,325 and emotional toil that chemotherapy 16 00:00:52,905 --> 00:00:55,845 and radiation caused her. 17 00:00:56,265 --> 00:00:57,965 And I mean so many others. 18 00:00:58,275 --> 00:01:02,285 It's something that I think we all know that the treatments 19 00:01:02,285 --> 00:01:06,245 for cancer, basically, in a lot of cases, 20 00:01:06,335 --> 00:01:07,965 bring you within an inch of your life. 21 00:01:08,355 --> 00:01:10,565 It's, they, they practically kill you to save you, 22 00:01:11,185 --> 00:01:12,245 and the aftermath of 23 00:01:12,245 --> 00:01:16,125 that on the body is just severe emotionally, physically. 24 00:01:16,745 --> 00:01:19,085 So she's, she's really open about it. 25 00:01:19,185 --> 00:01:21,205 In this conversation, we talk about 26 00:01:22,215 --> 00:01:23,445 everything she went through. 27 00:01:23,705 --> 00:01:26,365 And just as a trigger warning, 28 00:01:26,855 --> 00:01:30,045 there are some explicit conversations in here, 29 00:01:30,345 --> 00:01:34,885 and be aware of that if that is something that might 30 00:01:35,475 --> 00:01:39,525 trigger you or, or something you might not wanna listen to. 31 00:01:40,185 --> 00:01:45,165 She has had all sorts of interesting career paths. 32 00:01:45,585 --> 00:01:48,605 Uh, most notably now she's a life coach, a hospice 33 00:01:49,485 --> 00:01:52,405 spiritual care provider, and a patient advocate, 34 00:01:53,145 --> 00:01:56,005 and she tours around and talks about her experience 35 00:01:56,745 --> 00:01:58,925 and helps others through their experiences. 36 00:02:00,455 --> 00:02:03,805 Check out, hey, human podcast.com for links. 37 00:02:03,805 --> 00:02:05,765 And to learn more about my guests in the show, 38 00:02:05,815 --> 00:02:07,805 check out Susan ruth.com. 39 00:02:07,825 --> 00:02:10,285 To learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, 40 00:02:10,865 --> 00:02:14,325 follow Susan Ruth and hey, human podcast on social media, 41 00:02:15,025 --> 00:02:18,645 and find my music on Spotify, apple music, Amazon music, 42 00:02:19,005 --> 00:02:20,565 wherever you get your music rate. 43 00:02:20,625 --> 00:02:23,765 Review and subscribe to, Hey, human podcast on iTunes 44 00:02:23,765 --> 00:02:25,365 or wherever you get your podcasts. 45 00:02:25,895 --> 00:02:30,445 Thank you for listening. Be well, be kind, be love. 46 00:02:30,825 --> 00:02:33,205 My gosh, we need it desperately in the world. 47 00:02:34,165 --> 00:02:35,925 I feel like every time I turn on the news, 48 00:02:35,925 --> 00:02:38,845 another horrific thing is going on in the world. 49 00:02:39,705 --> 00:02:43,525 I'm trying to take in as much good news as humanly possible, 50 00:02:43,985 --> 00:02:47,165 as a way to combat all the sadness and, 51 00:02:47,745 --> 00:02:49,325 and horribleness out there. 52 00:02:49,835 --> 00:02:52,045 There's more good. I promise there is. 53 00:02:52,105 --> 00:02:56,605 We have to look for it. Take care of yourself. Be well. 54 00:02:57,515 --> 00:03:02,015 Here we go. Nart Sherman, 55 00:03:02,015 --> 00:03:03,455 welcome to Hey, human. 56 00:03:04,305 --> 00:03:06,135 - Thank you so much for having me. 57 00:03:06,525 --> 00:03:08,975 - It's nice to see you. - Yeah, you too. 58 00:03:09,425 --> 00:03:12,815 - Shout out to cousin Michael. - Totally. Hey, Mike. 59 00:03:13,385 --> 00:03:15,055 - Let's go back to the beginning of you. 60 00:03:15,105 --> 00:03:18,895 Where were you raised up? What was family life like? 61 00:03:19,525 --> 00:03:20,525 What shaped you? 62 00:03:21,515 --> 00:03:23,135 - So I was born in Israel. 63 00:03:24,455 --> 00:03:26,635 My parents divorced when I was four. 64 00:03:27,775 --> 00:03:31,395 And so there was some, a turmoil around 65 00:03:31,975 --> 00:03:33,755 normal divorces and children. 66 00:03:35,095 --> 00:03:39,515 And, uh, I lived with my mom for a while, then moved 67 00:03:39,535 --> 00:03:42,235 to my dad's, then we came to the United States 68 00:03:43,225 --> 00:03:45,485 Middle School here, high school, college. 69 00:03:46,275 --> 00:03:50,205 Went back to Israel for six years, did my master's there, 70 00:03:50,825 --> 00:03:52,325 and then I came back to the United States. 71 00:03:53,545 --> 00:03:55,285 - And was your master's in mathematics? 72 00:03:56,425 --> 00:03:59,525 - No. My master's is, is in the life sciences 73 00:04:00,265 --> 00:04:01,965 and my first degree is in biochemistry. 74 00:04:02,915 --> 00:04:05,795 - What drew you to that? - Um, 75 00:04:07,395 --> 00:04:10,275 I thought about maybe working in medicine, 76 00:04:12,085 --> 00:04:13,355 maybe being a physician. 77 00:04:13,475 --> 00:04:16,275 I wasn't sure. It just happened to be 78 00:04:16,275 --> 00:04:18,115 that I was good in math and science. 79 00:04:18,395 --> 00:04:19,995 I got the high school math award 80 00:04:19,995 --> 00:04:22,995 and the high school science award and other awards, 81 00:04:23,015 --> 00:04:27,835 and it was just like the path kind of rolled that way. 82 00:04:29,065 --> 00:04:31,275 - What do you remember about your childhood in Israel? 83 00:04:31,395 --> 00:04:32,395 I think a lot of people don't really 84 00:04:32,395 --> 00:04:34,475 know what it's like there. What do you recall? 85 00:04:35,025 --> 00:04:38,315 - It's very, uh, communal, kind of very social. 86 00:04:38,905 --> 00:04:40,235 It's not like in the United States 87 00:04:40,235 --> 00:04:42,315 that people live in separate houses. 88 00:04:42,385 --> 00:04:44,995 They live in apartments. People own their apartments. 89 00:04:45,015 --> 00:04:46,675 And so it's easy. Just go downstairs 90 00:04:46,695 --> 00:04:48,395 and go visit the neighbor's kids. 91 00:04:48,395 --> 00:04:50,795 There's a lot of kids. A lot of neighbors. 92 00:04:50,815 --> 00:04:52,595 And it was fun to go 93 00:04:52,765 --> 00:04:54,715 after school to visit, you know, 94 00:04:54,715 --> 00:04:56,195 from one person to the next. 95 00:04:57,305 --> 00:05:01,235 Just a normal childhood living in the suburbs 96 00:05:01,235 --> 00:05:03,315 of Tel Aviv in a town called Raman. 97 00:05:03,745 --> 00:05:06,755 - Only child. - No, I have an older brother. 98 00:05:07,575 --> 00:05:08,915 And, uh, too much younger. 99 00:05:09,655 --> 00:05:11,755 - The fact that your parents divorced so young did, 100 00:05:11,985 --> 00:05:15,235 when you were so young, did you end up 101 00:05:15,235 --> 00:05:17,235 with six stepparents? 102 00:05:18,075 --> 00:05:20,355 Anything like that that shaped any part of your life? 103 00:05:20,855 --> 00:05:22,955 - Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely. 104 00:05:23,055 --> 00:05:27,235 It, I think it all shaped me. It all shaped me. Yeah. Yeah. 105 00:05:27,455 --> 00:05:29,035 My father has been married several times, 106 00:05:29,215 --> 00:05:30,915 and my mom remarried. 107 00:05:31,365 --> 00:05:35,515 Definitely. Every stepparent had some kind of an influence. 108 00:05:36,065 --> 00:05:38,475 - When you went back to Israel for six years, 109 00:05:38,545 --> 00:05:40,555 what brought you then back to the States again? 110 00:05:41,195 --> 00:05:43,675 - I went back to Israel for a million reasons. 111 00:05:44,275 --> 00:05:46,035 I ended up doing my master's there, my first one. 112 00:05:46,055 --> 00:05:50,235 But I went there, uh, also to get close 113 00:05:51,305 --> 00:05:52,315 with my mom 114 00:05:52,535 --> 00:05:54,995 and her family to see what it was like 115 00:05:54,995 --> 00:05:56,515 to live in Israel as an adult. 116 00:05:57,145 --> 00:06:01,825 At the time. There was, um, some peace accords, 117 00:06:02,525 --> 00:06:04,625 uh, between, that were being signed 118 00:06:04,625 --> 00:06:06,545 between robbing and Arafat. 119 00:06:07,335 --> 00:06:09,915 That brought a lot of hope for me. 120 00:06:10,615 --> 00:06:13,075 So I think a lot of reasons together. 121 00:06:13,795 --> 00:06:16,555 I lived there for about five and a half years. 122 00:06:16,975 --> 00:06:18,195 Family situation. 123 00:06:18,195 --> 00:06:22,245 There was more challenging for me, family life here. 124 00:06:22,985 --> 00:06:25,645 People were very warm and accepting. 125 00:06:25,785 --> 00:06:29,605 And I think with the family in Israel at the time, 126 00:06:29,905 --> 00:06:31,005 it was, it was challenging. 127 00:06:31,065 --> 00:06:34,845 And then my brother, who was here, called me, 128 00:06:34,845 --> 00:06:36,965 he would call me on the phone and say, Hey, I miss you. 129 00:06:37,815 --> 00:06:41,615 I want you to come and live here. I miss you. I miss you. 130 00:06:41,815 --> 00:06:44,415 I miss you. You should come live here, . 131 00:06:45,675 --> 00:06:47,775 And finally, I did. I came over. I came back. 132 00:06:47,875 --> 00:06:50,535 - Sounds like you've had quite a lot 133 00:06:50,555 --> 00:06:52,215 of changes in your life. 134 00:06:52,355 --> 00:06:55,815 Uh, I wrote it down, uh, math teacher, 135 00:06:56,615 --> 00:07:00,895 spiritual psychology, time, massage, chaplain. 136 00:07:02,085 --> 00:07:03,615 It's a lot of different lifetimes. 137 00:07:04,285 --> 00:07:07,015 - Yeah. So I, you know, I think in, in, 138 00:07:07,165 --> 00:07:09,175 I've always had an artistic side 139 00:07:09,275 --> 00:07:13,255 and I've always had a science mathematical kind of side 140 00:07:13,595 --> 00:07:16,015 and a humanistic kind of side, 141 00:07:16,675 --> 00:07:19,625 all playing together, um, really nicely. 142 00:07:20,565 --> 00:07:23,185 And, uh, because I was good at math 143 00:07:23,185 --> 00:07:25,745 and science, you know, I, I really wasn't sure, shall I do 144 00:07:25,745 --> 00:07:27,225 that or shall I go to the performing arts? 145 00:07:28,165 --> 00:07:30,265 And my dad had a lot 146 00:07:30,345 --> 00:07:33,065 of influence on me going into the math and science. 147 00:07:33,245 --> 00:07:36,465 So I did. But I could see it wasn't my 148 00:07:36,465 --> 00:07:38,705 passion, but I wasn't sure. 149 00:07:39,145 --> 00:07:41,945 Research wasn't my passion. So I, I wasn't sure what was. 150 00:07:42,485 --> 00:07:46,425 And so then I, I worked as a teacher for a while, adults, 151 00:07:47,085 --> 00:07:48,265 uh, children. 152 00:07:49,585 --> 00:07:53,305 And when I was in middle school, teaching middle school, 153 00:07:54,455 --> 00:07:57,545 once there was, um, I had to meet at the, 154 00:07:58,205 --> 00:08:01,025 at the eighth grade math teacher's classroom, 155 00:08:02,055 --> 00:08:03,335 I mean English teacher's classroom. 156 00:08:04,555 --> 00:08:07,255 And when I went there, she had a sign on the wall 157 00:08:07,555 --> 00:08:10,855 and said, you are the author of your own life story. 158 00:08:12,085 --> 00:08:15,665 And I couldn't take my eyes off of it, Susan. I couldn't. 159 00:08:15,665 --> 00:08:18,825 There was just, something was fucking my whole presence 160 00:08:19,375 --> 00:08:20,505 into this one sign. 161 00:08:20,505 --> 00:08:23,265 You're the author of your own life story. 162 00:08:23,925 --> 00:08:27,025 And I was 30 years old, and I thought, oh yeah. 163 00:08:28,125 --> 00:08:32,605 Oh yeah, wow. I write my life story. 164 00:08:33,535 --> 00:08:36,855 How's my story right now? And I thought, wow. 165 00:08:37,115 --> 00:08:39,335 I'd be so bored if I were reading my story, 166 00:08:39,595 --> 00:08:40,655 I'd be super bored. 167 00:08:41,875 --> 00:08:44,095 And I was like, oh, no, I gotta change. 168 00:08:44,995 --> 00:08:49,055 And I, and I didn't know what, the only thing I knew was 169 00:08:49,055 --> 00:08:52,575 that I had traveled between the ages of 22 to 30. 170 00:08:53,615 --> 00:08:56,085 I would just go somewhere with a backpack by myself 171 00:08:56,985 --> 00:08:58,765 and travel for two, three months. 172 00:08:58,945 --> 00:09:02,245 And I said, okay, you're going to go and travel 173 00:09:03,335 --> 00:09:05,395 and you're going to come back when you're ready 174 00:09:05,395 --> 00:09:07,555 to come back, because the other travels. 175 00:09:07,635 --> 00:09:08,715 I was never ready to come back. 176 00:09:10,135 --> 00:09:14,065 And so I went, I took a leave of absence for a year. 177 00:09:14,145 --> 00:09:15,505 I went to the Far East. 178 00:09:16,975 --> 00:09:18,875 And then when I was there, 179 00:09:20,035 --> 00:09:22,635 probably my third month in, I was in Thailand. 180 00:09:22,935 --> 00:09:24,635 And people told me to meditate. 181 00:09:25,415 --> 00:09:28,115 And a friend of mine sent me off 182 00:09:29,555 --> 00:09:31,015 to my travels with a book. 183 00:09:31,035 --> 00:09:32,095 And it, the book said 184 00:09:32,095 --> 00:09:34,575 that if many people tell you the same thing, 185 00:09:34,595 --> 00:09:37,135 you sh it's the universe's way of telling you 186 00:09:37,855 --> 00:09:39,175 , you need to do it. 187 00:09:39,615 --> 00:09:42,135 I was not interested in meditation whatsoever. Zero. 188 00:09:42,535 --> 00:09:43,695 I had zero, zero. 189 00:09:43,915 --> 00:09:46,015 And no matter who talked to me, I said, I'm not interested. 190 00:09:46,255 --> 00:09:48,175 I, you know, my brainwashed, my brain is already washed. 191 00:09:48,175 --> 00:09:49,375 I don't need to wash it again with more 192 00:09:49,375 --> 00:09:50,455 ideas and more concepts. 193 00:09:51,395 --> 00:09:54,175 But truth is that I was fascinated. 194 00:09:54,725 --> 00:09:57,375 Went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat, 195 00:09:57,435 --> 00:10:01,175 and I was fascinated and mind opened up 196 00:10:01,195 --> 00:10:04,175 and I thought, wow, this is incredible. 197 00:10:04,875 --> 00:10:06,495 And then I stayed five more days 198 00:10:06,495 --> 00:10:09,255 because I was so fascinated that I asked one 199 00:10:09,255 --> 00:10:12,455 of the participants there to show me what she does, 200 00:10:12,455 --> 00:10:15,895 because she really, I could see 10 days I watched her. 201 00:10:15,895 --> 00:10:17,215 She knew she knew how to meditate, 202 00:10:18,155 --> 00:10:19,495 and I was still fidgeting. 203 00:10:19,555 --> 00:10:23,455 My mind couldn't do it. I Maria, well, you teach me. 204 00:10:23,455 --> 00:10:25,135 And she did. She taught me what to do. 205 00:10:25,735 --> 00:10:29,375 I sat with her three times a day and I did. 206 00:10:29,775 --> 00:10:31,575 I just watched my belly move. 207 00:10:32,645 --> 00:10:35,545 And once I could only focus on that, she said, 208 00:10:35,545 --> 00:10:37,505 when a thought comes through your mind, just, 209 00:10:38,615 --> 00:10:41,665 just notice it, give it a name, and then leave it. 210 00:10:41,925 --> 00:10:44,025 Go back to just noticing the Brits. 211 00:10:44,025 --> 00:10:47,545 So the focus was so much on the movement of 212 00:10:48,365 --> 00:10:50,225 my abdomen only. 213 00:10:50,745 --> 00:10:54,445 I just wouldn't let it my mind be distracted. Right. 214 00:10:54,625 --> 00:10:55,965 And then the thoughts started coming 215 00:10:55,985 --> 00:10:59,005 and I started naming them, planning, analyzing, 216 00:10:59,715 --> 00:11:01,365 fantasizing, futurizing. 217 00:11:02,145 --> 00:11:03,965 It was just wow, wow, wow. 218 00:11:03,965 --> 00:11:07,245 First time in my life I could see what was running 219 00:11:07,515 --> 00:11:09,485 through this mind. 220 00:11:10,145 --> 00:11:12,205 And it was so fascinating. 221 00:11:12,445 --> 00:11:15,165 I was like, oh, that was a fun game to play. 222 00:11:16,145 --> 00:11:19,325 And then I was like, wow, I'm playing the game of me. 223 00:11:19,515 --> 00:11:21,965 It's all about me. Oh, my ego really love that one. 224 00:11:22,515 --> 00:11:27,005 It's me, it's my show. So fun. I loved it so much. 225 00:11:27,825 --> 00:11:30,165 It was so much more interesting than watching television, 226 00:11:30,885 --> 00:11:33,145 but it was like watching television, like, oh, 227 00:11:33,435 --> 00:11:34,945 these are the stories that are happening. 228 00:11:34,945 --> 00:11:36,785 That's what's happening in this screen. 229 00:11:37,645 --> 00:11:39,905 And then as I watched it more and more, 230 00:11:40,025 --> 00:11:44,825 'cause I was so fascinated, there became gaps. 231 00:11:45,695 --> 00:11:47,105 They just came out of the blue 232 00:11:47,105 --> 00:11:50,845 because the thoughts started calming slower and slower. 233 00:11:51,345 --> 00:11:55,555 So I was watching them and there was gaps. 234 00:11:56,335 --> 00:11:58,355 And the gaps were so lovely. 235 00:11:59,415 --> 00:12:01,075 And it took me a while to notice. 236 00:12:01,215 --> 00:12:03,635 And I then I thought, wow, this is even 237 00:12:04,785 --> 00:12:06,175 nicer than the thoughts. 238 00:12:06,595 --> 00:12:08,335 Wow, wow, wow. 239 00:12:10,225 --> 00:12:12,155 Like swimming and quiet. 240 00:12:14,005 --> 00:12:15,545 And I felt so good. 241 00:12:18,125 --> 00:12:22,835 So I just kept doing it. And it was so fun. 242 00:12:23,315 --> 00:12:26,395 I could sit there and watch one thought, sit 243 00:12:26,415 --> 00:12:28,955 and watch thoughts begin to form. 244 00:12:29,055 --> 00:12:31,115 Not even when they were forming. 245 00:12:31,115 --> 00:12:33,755 There's energy coming on my right and one on my left. 246 00:12:34,295 --> 00:12:38,035 And if I watched them, they wouldn't fuse into a thought. 247 00:12:38,035 --> 00:12:41,315 They'd just go out of the field. 248 00:12:42,745 --> 00:12:45,765 And it was all about being present, completely, 249 00:12:46,015 --> 00:12:47,405 completely focused. 250 00:12:48,225 --> 00:12:51,365 And then on the 15th day, so the five days after, 251 00:12:52,855 --> 00:12:55,045 after the first the attend day meditation 252 00:12:55,045 --> 00:12:57,725 or I, I woke up in the morning and I sat in the forest, 253 00:12:57,985 --> 00:12:59,565 and then, um, 254 00:13:01,125 --> 00:13:03,125 I waited for thoughts. 255 00:13:03,125 --> 00:13:05,365 And then just the whole construct 256 00:13:05,625 --> 00:13:08,915 of canary left. 257 00:13:09,565 --> 00:13:13,835 There was no canary, just the whole ego, all the thoughts, 258 00:13:14,015 --> 00:13:16,075 all the feelings, all the memories, 259 00:13:17,265 --> 00:13:19,045 all concepts disappeared. 260 00:13:19,155 --> 00:13:22,435 They just went. And there was 261 00:13:23,175 --> 00:13:27,135 no er, she didn't exist. 262 00:13:29,075 --> 00:13:32,505 It's fake. There was an energy 263 00:13:33,765 --> 00:13:37,265 inside some kind of a light that was so loving 264 00:13:37,485 --> 00:13:39,585 and so powerful. 265 00:13:41,995 --> 00:13:46,415 And it was the clearest of the clearest 266 00:13:47,675 --> 00:13:49,005 that that was truth. 267 00:13:50,165 --> 00:13:54,435 And the personality was an illusion. 268 00:13:54,735 --> 00:13:57,315 And that all of life is an illusion 269 00:13:58,015 --> 00:13:59,795 of the senses of perception. 270 00:14:01,305 --> 00:14:05,535 That for 30 years, I had no clue there was, 271 00:14:05,535 --> 00:14:09,055 there's actually no, I, I don't exist. 272 00:14:11,165 --> 00:14:12,935 That was a huge realization. 273 00:14:13,435 --> 00:14:16,455 And that home was inside. 274 00:14:17,155 --> 00:14:20,455 It was not outside, not in anything or anyone. 275 00:14:22,775 --> 00:14:27,015 It's that light that's beyond 276 00:14:27,815 --> 00:14:29,815 anything that I can see in the physical. 277 00:14:30,915 --> 00:14:33,775 And that energy had no religion 278 00:14:35,295 --> 00:14:37,155 or that energy light, I'm gonna call it. 279 00:14:37,375 --> 00:14:39,715 And it also didn't have a gender, 280 00:14:41,785 --> 00:14:45,325 and it was the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced. 281 00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:50,165 And so that changed the trajectory of my life 282 00:14:50,165 --> 00:14:51,805 because I had no context. 283 00:14:52,145 --> 00:14:56,805 So I started going to spiritual centers in 284 00:14:58,285 --> 00:15:00,765 Thailand and, and India. 285 00:15:00,945 --> 00:15:04,605 And what just happened? , what was that? 286 00:15:05,105 --> 00:15:06,205 The ego came back. 287 00:15:07,105 --> 00:15:11,195 The ego came back, and it, there it was same thing as 288 00:15:11,195 --> 00:15:15,315 before, dealing with the exact same issues, afraid, 289 00:15:15,895 --> 00:15:20,235 scared, doubtful, , righteous, 290 00:15:21,035 --> 00:15:23,435 judgmental, on and on and on and on. 291 00:15:23,435 --> 00:15:28,105 And I thought, wow, wow. What do I do with that? 292 00:15:28,895 --> 00:15:33,745 There's this spiritual, and then there's what the ego does, 293 00:15:33,885 --> 00:15:35,705 and how do I live like that? 294 00:15:37,095 --> 00:15:40,945 Yeah. So then, you know, I wasn't interested anymore in 295 00:15:41,825 --> 00:15:43,705 teaching in, I wasn't, 296 00:15:43,705 --> 00:15:45,905 the only thing I was interested was going 297 00:15:45,905 --> 00:15:49,185 to meditation centers and meditating 298 00:15:49,285 --> 00:15:51,425 and learning more about the spiritual life. 299 00:15:51,725 --> 00:15:53,585 So that's how, you know, things changed. 300 00:15:53,865 --> 00:15:58,265 I went from science teaching to 301 00:16:00,525 --> 00:16:03,925 spiritual understandings and learning more about that. 302 00:16:05,265 --> 00:16:06,675 What is that? Yeah. 303 00:16:07,135 --> 00:16:10,355 - How does a soul, for lack of a better word 304 00:16:10,355 --> 00:16:14,195 or energy, exist in a world 305 00:16:14,225 --> 00:16:16,995 that requires food and water and shelter 306 00:16:17,135 --> 00:16:18,595 and healthcare and all of that. 307 00:16:18,855 --> 00:16:23,075 How do you find the intersection that allows for you to be 308 00:16:23,895 --> 00:16:25,555 of spirit, 309 00:16:25,975 --> 00:16:30,715 but also know that the shell casing the spirit's been shoved 310 00:16:30,715 --> 00:16:34,075 into has to be cared for without being, I mean, 311 00:16:34,255 --> 00:16:36,555 how does one be in it and not be of it? 312 00:16:36,985 --> 00:16:39,235 - Well, somehow we find ourselves in this, 313 00:16:39,735 --> 00:16:41,355 in this body suit, right? 314 00:16:42,315 --> 00:16:43,995 somehow. 315 00:16:45,255 --> 00:16:50,135 And so we, we get to choose, we get to choose 316 00:16:51,225 --> 00:16:56,135 how we wanna care for this expression of life through us. 317 00:16:57,975 --> 00:17:00,915 And do we wanna, how much we want to play 318 00:17:02,335 --> 00:17:04,835 and what we want to play in the world of form. 319 00:17:05,615 --> 00:17:08,395 As long as we keep it as play, of course we forget. 320 00:17:08,935 --> 00:17:11,555 We forget that it's play. 321 00:17:13,035 --> 00:17:15,875 - Absolutely. So that what drew you into then 322 00:17:16,735 --> 00:17:18,835 the spiritual psychology degree? 323 00:17:18,865 --> 00:17:20,755 Explain what that is, first of all. Yeah, 324 00:17:20,755 --> 00:17:21,755 - Yeah. 325 00:17:21,755 --> 00:17:23,435 So, you know, after I came back, it was clear to me 326 00:17:23,435 --> 00:17:25,675 that I couldn't just be a regular teacher 327 00:17:26,375 --> 00:17:28,515 and that I needed to find a vocation 328 00:17:28,585 --> 00:17:29,915 that would be better suited 329 00:17:29,935 --> 00:17:31,475 for my new understanding of life. 330 00:17:31,695 --> 00:17:33,275 And so I was looking around 331 00:17:33,335 --> 00:17:35,595 and I found the University of Santa Monica 332 00:17:35,735 --> 00:17:38,315 and I enrolled in spiritual psychology program, 333 00:17:38,445 --> 00:17:39,675 which was a master's program. 334 00:17:40,535 --> 00:17:44,195 And it's about the understanding that we are, you know, 335 00:17:44,195 --> 00:17:46,555 there's a spirit having a human experience. 336 00:17:46,855 --> 00:17:48,835 And again, how do we reconcile the two? 337 00:17:49,465 --> 00:17:51,525 How do we draw on the spiritual side 338 00:17:51,785 --> 00:17:55,685 and yet still address our human side, which judges 339 00:17:55,945 --> 00:17:59,605 and blames and has big feelings 340 00:18:00,345 --> 00:18:02,565 and tantrums all over the place, 341 00:18:03,265 --> 00:18:05,765 and how do we reconcile the two? 342 00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:10,765 And so it did call upon, you know, speaking 343 00:18:10,795 --> 00:18:15,485 with our higher self or our soul self, uh, for guidance. 344 00:18:16,435 --> 00:18:19,605 There's a lot of metaphysical learning there too, about 345 00:18:19,625 --> 00:18:23,755 how do we focus, where does our mind focus as far as 346 00:18:23,755 --> 00:18:25,515 what we're creating in the 347 00:18:27,395 --> 00:18:28,395 - World? 348 00:18:28,395 --> 00:18:29,835 Did you have an idea of where you wanted to take 349 00:18:29,835 --> 00:18:33,675 that degree, or was it more about being in the learning 350 00:18:33,775 --> 00:18:34,955 and see what happens next? 351 00:18:35,655 --> 00:18:38,115 - It was being in the learning and seeing what happens next. 352 00:18:38,975 --> 00:18:40,035 - Mm-Hmm. . - Yeah. 353 00:18:40,175 --> 00:18:44,075 - So what happens next? - Well, 354 00:18:44,675 --> 00:18:46,115 I still didn't know what to do. 355 00:18:46,435 --> 00:18:49,515 I, I did study a Thai massage when I was in Thailand, 356 00:18:49,895 --> 00:18:52,355 so I said, well, why don't I do massage? 357 00:18:52,475 --> 00:18:54,835 I couldn't, I couldn't, uh, work in a regular job. 358 00:18:55,535 --> 00:18:59,795 So I babysat family were all freaked out 359 00:18:59,795 --> 00:19:01,995 because I wasn't normal. 360 00:19:03,095 --> 00:19:05,315 And they were very concerned 361 00:19:05,315 --> 00:19:07,035 that I wouldn't have money to pay for life. 362 00:19:07,135 --> 00:19:09,475 So they started sending me people to babysit. 363 00:19:09,655 --> 00:19:10,755 All of a sudden, out of nowhere, 364 00:19:10,755 --> 00:19:12,235 people were calling me to babysit. 365 00:19:12,415 --> 00:19:14,235 And I was like, who are you? ? 366 00:19:14,985 --> 00:19:18,115 Well, your uncles gave me your number, my uncle gave you. 367 00:19:18,575 --> 00:19:21,475 Oh, right. You know, nice Jewish family. 368 00:19:21,475 --> 00:19:24,275 Nobody asks, they just send people to call you. 369 00:19:24,595 --> 00:19:28,155 I started to babysit and I started doing time massage, 370 00:19:28,335 --> 00:19:29,675 and I started pet sitting. 371 00:19:30,695 --> 00:19:33,115 And that's how I lived for about eight years. 372 00:19:33,295 --> 00:19:34,475 And about a year 373 00:19:34,645 --> 00:19:36,835 after I finished the, 374 00:19:36,975 --> 00:19:39,315 the spiritual psychology program, I was doing massage. 375 00:19:40,215 --> 00:19:41,635 And a woman came in 376 00:19:42,495 --> 00:19:45,825 and she was, um, wow. 377 00:19:45,845 --> 00:19:49,265 She came in and it was like the dark, I don't know what kind 378 00:19:49,265 --> 00:19:51,385 of dark spirit she was in. 379 00:19:51,925 --> 00:19:54,615 And I was like, wow, whoa. 380 00:19:54,845 --> 00:19:56,855 That was like some darkness around this lady. 381 00:19:57,195 --> 00:20:00,375 And I said, Hey, what's going ons? 382 00:20:00,465 --> 00:20:02,665 Even though I was doing massage, I, I couldn't, 383 00:20:02,825 --> 00:20:03,825 I couldn't let her, 384 00:20:03,985 --> 00:20:07,185 I couldn't let her be the slow, it bothered me. 385 00:20:07,325 --> 00:20:08,865 So I said, Hey, what's going on? 386 00:20:09,925 --> 00:20:11,905 You know, I sat and I talked with her a little bit. 387 00:20:12,185 --> 00:20:14,785 I, you know, reflected back kind of what I heard. 388 00:20:14,965 --> 00:20:17,345 And, and then I said, you know, I see life 389 00:20:17,345 --> 00:20:20,065 and I see what you said in a totally different way, 390 00:20:20,765 --> 00:20:22,025 you know, would you like to hear? 391 00:20:22,125 --> 00:20:25,915 And she did. And then she had such a transformation. 392 00:20:26,975 --> 00:20:28,275 She was like a different person. 393 00:20:28,375 --> 00:20:30,755 She had light, she had a smile. 394 00:20:31,195 --> 00:20:32,795 I was like, wow, that, that was amazing. 395 00:20:33,575 --> 00:20:35,795 She came back like two weeks later 396 00:20:35,855 --> 00:20:37,515 and she said, I don't know what you did, 397 00:20:37,735 --> 00:20:42,715 but I was on a high, like for a whole week. 398 00:20:42,935 --> 00:20:45,875 And then slowly started coming down and I became me again. 399 00:20:47,475 --> 00:20:49,965 Yeah. And so then I started working with people 400 00:20:50,575 --> 00:20:54,045 - Doing energy work or time massage or both together, 401 00:20:55,435 --> 00:20:57,885 - Like talking to them and doing massage 402 00:20:58,875 --> 00:20:59,875 - Both. 403 00:20:59,875 --> 00:21:02,205 Yeah. And then 2015 happens. 404 00:21:03,305 --> 00:21:05,285 - Yes, 2015 happened 405 00:21:05,705 --> 00:21:09,205 and I, uh, started feeling odd. 406 00:21:09,225 --> 00:21:11,725 And then there was, there was like blood, 407 00:21:12,195 --> 00:21:14,725 like a blood clump smeared on the stool. 408 00:21:15,585 --> 00:21:17,005 And I went to the doctor 409 00:21:17,105 --> 00:21:20,295 and I was diagnosed with rectal cancer 410 00:21:20,955 --> 00:21:22,895 - At age 43 ish. 411 00:21:23,595 --> 00:21:25,135 - Yes. 43. mm-Hmm. 412 00:21:25,255 --> 00:21:28,855 - . Yeah. And was that, did you have 413 00:21:28,855 --> 00:21:31,375 that in your family history? Was it shocking? 414 00:21:32,045 --> 00:21:34,055 - Yeah, it was shocking. Yes. 415 00:21:34,275 --> 00:21:38,135 My parents don't have cancer and didn't, 416 00:21:38,235 --> 00:21:41,015 and only one grandparent had cancer, 417 00:21:41,315 --> 00:21:42,975 and that was when she was 68. 418 00:21:43,155 --> 00:21:45,535 So here I was at 43, 419 00:21:45,795 --> 00:21:48,615 and yeah, this came outta left field completely. 420 00:21:50,245 --> 00:21:54,105 - And did they have any indication at the time as to 421 00:21:54,105 --> 00:21:56,305 what might have brought it on, 422 00:21:56,305 --> 00:21:57,865 and did you have any symptoms other 423 00:21:57,865 --> 00:21:59,785 than seeing blood in the stool? So 424 00:21:59,785 --> 00:22:01,425 - Blood in the stool was the first thing. 425 00:22:03,165 --> 00:22:04,365 A little bit after that. 426 00:22:04,365 --> 00:22:07,085 There was like something in the pelvis, 427 00:22:07,555 --> 00:22:09,725 something in the pelvis wasn't right, 428 00:22:10,705 --> 00:22:12,845 and I could feel something odd. 429 00:22:12,865 --> 00:22:15,765 And I didn't know if it was the female organs. 430 00:22:16,315 --> 00:22:17,485 Something was odd. 431 00:22:18,185 --> 00:22:22,725 And then I started feeling a sucking sensation again 432 00:22:23,185 --> 00:22:27,965 inside my pelvis as if something was sucking my blood 433 00:22:27,985 --> 00:22:30,165 or the, my body's blood onto itself. 434 00:22:31,365 --> 00:22:33,915 I could feel it. And I, 435 00:22:33,975 --> 00:22:35,795 and I didn't know, I knew it was in the pelvis, 436 00:22:36,255 --> 00:22:38,035 and I remember telling people that, 437 00:22:38,135 --> 00:22:41,635 but I was like, that is such a weird sensation. 438 00:22:42,975 --> 00:22:46,575 So, so weird. And then hemorrhoids. 439 00:22:46,995 --> 00:22:49,895 So hemorrhoids are also quite normal 440 00:22:50,395 --> 00:22:51,775 for people with rectal cancer. 441 00:22:51,945 --> 00:22:55,455 Often patients go to their primary physician 442 00:22:55,455 --> 00:22:57,815 and they say, oh, I'm seeing some blood on the stool. 443 00:22:58,355 --> 00:22:59,495 And then the physician looks 444 00:22:59,695 --> 00:23:01,215 and says, oh, you have hemorrhoids. 445 00:23:01,395 --> 00:23:02,935 Go home and take a hemorrhoid cream. 446 00:23:03,975 --> 00:23:06,475 And that's what happened to me also, except 447 00:23:06,475 --> 00:23:08,235 that I knew it wasn't the hemorrhoids, 448 00:23:08,235 --> 00:23:11,395 because I'm, I didn't have hemorrhoids usually, like 449 00:23:11,505 --> 00:23:14,235 what was causing the hemorrhoids, you know? 450 00:23:14,235 --> 00:23:16,715 So I was, I was nice and I took the, the hemorrhoid. 451 00:23:16,875 --> 00:23:18,595 I didn't take the hemorrhoid cream. 452 00:23:18,755 --> 00:23:20,275 I, I just went back a week 453 00:23:20,275 --> 00:23:21,515 later and said, something's not right. 454 00:23:21,615 --> 00:23:23,115 I'm feeling a whole lot of things here. 455 00:23:23,495 --> 00:23:24,595 Please do more testing. 456 00:23:25,575 --> 00:23:26,795 And then they did more testing 457 00:23:27,215 --> 00:23:28,515 and everything came back normal. 458 00:23:28,615 --> 00:23:31,795 And I, and I, and then my roommate said, you know, 459 00:23:31,795 --> 00:23:32,995 do you wanna have a colonoscopy? 460 00:23:32,995 --> 00:23:36,075 And I said, I do. And I, I went back to the doctor again 461 00:23:36,075 --> 00:23:38,515 and I said, I want to have a colonoscopy. 462 00:23:39,905 --> 00:23:42,405 I'm actually not gonna leave this office until you tell me 463 00:23:42,405 --> 00:23:45,325 that you, you're putting a referral to a gastroenterologist. 464 00:23:46,585 --> 00:23:50,925 And I hear this so many times from so many patients. 465 00:23:51,505 --> 00:23:54,405 Oh, I went, they told me it was a hemorrhoid. 466 00:23:55,025 --> 00:23:58,405 So I went home, I went, they did some testing, 467 00:23:58,435 --> 00:24:01,325 they said everything was okay, and I went home. 468 00:24:01,545 --> 00:24:04,165 And then I, and then they wait six months, a year, 469 00:24:05,005 --> 00:24:07,725 18 months, and then diagnosed with stage four. 470 00:24:08,415 --> 00:24:11,085 - Right? I mean, we have to be advocates for ourselves 471 00:24:11,085 --> 00:24:14,165 because we are in our bodies and nobody else is. 472 00:24:14,745 --> 00:24:18,045 And doctors may see things on a nonstop basis, 473 00:24:18,385 --> 00:24:21,165 and they, they're not us. 474 00:24:21,165 --> 00:24:22,685 They're not in our bodies. 475 00:24:22,955 --> 00:24:26,405 It's so, so important to, I mean, they work for us. 476 00:24:27,015 --> 00:24:29,365 Let's be clear that we have to demand 477 00:24:30,595 --> 00:24:32,985 tests when we feel like we need to get them. 478 00:24:33,845 --> 00:24:36,145 - Yes, absolutely. Women - Especially. 479 00:24:36,765 --> 00:24:37,785 - Yes, absolutely. 480 00:24:38,805 --> 00:24:41,065 - And people of color, people of color as well. 481 00:24:41,065 --> 00:24:42,145 People tend to be ignored. 482 00:24:42,775 --> 00:24:46,585 - Yeah. Yeah. But yes, we are the ones living in our bodies. 483 00:24:46,765 --> 00:24:50,105 And so it's, it's our job to advocate. 484 00:24:50,255 --> 00:24:51,385 It's our job to go 485 00:24:51,525 --> 00:24:53,905 and say, okay, you didn't hear me the first time. 486 00:24:54,045 --> 00:24:56,105 Let me say it in a way. You can hear me. 487 00:24:56,285 --> 00:24:57,585 How can you, what, what is, 488 00:24:57,585 --> 00:24:59,625 what is it gonna take for you to hear me? Did 489 00:24:59,745 --> 00:25:00,825 - They push back with you? 490 00:25:01,855 --> 00:25:04,745 - Yeah, because when, when a person is under the, 491 00:25:04,845 --> 00:25:08,585 the normal age of whatever they decide the testing is. 492 00:25:09,455 --> 00:25:10,545 Yeah. Yeah. 493 00:25:10,685 --> 00:25:13,385 So like I said, I had to return three times before, 494 00:25:13,765 --> 00:25:16,665 before I was referred to a gastroenterologist. 495 00:25:16,685 --> 00:25:19,345 And the first time I spoke with a gastroenterologist 496 00:25:19,345 --> 00:25:23,025 and I was describing my sis my symptoms on the phone, 497 00:25:23,575 --> 00:25:25,425 they said, oh, honey, you gotta come in 498 00:25:25,425 --> 00:25:27,105 and you gotta come in like fast. 499 00:25:28,245 --> 00:25:33,215 They knew already. So how shocking, you know, between, 500 00:25:33,875 --> 00:25:35,215 you know, the primary care physician 501 00:25:35,215 --> 00:25:38,335 and the specialist who knew exactly what I was dealing with, 502 00:25:38,595 --> 00:25:39,815 bef, you know, they probably didn't 503 00:25:39,815 --> 00:25:40,855 even need the colonoscopy 504 00:25:41,865 --> 00:25:45,815 - Level of care with specialists is hopefully they listen a 505 00:25:45,815 --> 00:25:47,055 little bit more clearly. 506 00:25:47,315 --> 00:25:50,935 So you are diagnosed with stage two rectal cancer. 507 00:25:51,915 --> 00:25:54,655 - Yes. - You're diagnosed stage two, 508 00:25:56,075 --> 00:25:58,775 and what happens next? 509 00:25:58,925 --> 00:26:01,335 They say, here are your options. 510 00:26:01,545 --> 00:26:04,255 We're gonna give you chemo or radiation. 511 00:26:04,555 --> 00:26:08,655 And you didn't take to those options very well. 512 00:26:09,565 --> 00:26:12,415 - Yeah, I was actually quite shocked, you know, 513 00:26:12,415 --> 00:26:13,655 at, at the treatments. 514 00:26:14,075 --> 00:26:16,655 Um, it was going to be radiation 515 00:26:16,675 --> 00:26:18,935 and chemo followed by a surgery 516 00:26:19,515 --> 00:26:21,775 and having an, an ileostomy 517 00:26:22,635 --> 00:26:25,375 and then an, and then more chemo. And another surgery. 518 00:26:25,605 --> 00:26:27,255 - Explain what an ileostomy is. 519 00:26:27,475 --> 00:26:32,215 - An ileostomy is an opening in the abdomen 520 00:26:32,625 --> 00:26:36,015 where the end of the small intestine is called. 521 00:26:36,035 --> 00:26:40,215 The ileum is pulled out outside of the body 522 00:26:40,595 --> 00:26:44,715 and then cut, and then then feces 523 00:26:45,255 --> 00:26:48,195 or digested food goes outside of 524 00:26:48,935 --> 00:26:50,755 the abdomen into a pouch. 525 00:26:51,705 --> 00:26:53,965 And that's instead of using 526 00:26:54,665 --> 00:26:58,915 the large this intestine, um, system, 527 00:26:59,545 --> 00:27:03,795 because in that particular surgery they cut out 528 00:27:04,615 --> 00:27:07,435 the rectum, uh, with the sigmoid colon 529 00:27:07,855 --> 00:27:09,515 and they want the area to heal. 530 00:27:10,095 --> 00:27:14,795 And so then, then create this stoma, this opening outside 531 00:27:15,175 --> 00:27:19,675 of the body for a few months until the area heals. 532 00:27:20,375 --> 00:27:23,435 So those, those treatments to me, seemed really harsh. 533 00:27:23,635 --> 00:27:26,515 I was scared of radiation, I was scared of, of chemotherapy. 534 00:27:27,355 --> 00:27:30,675 I did know what, what they would cause long term. 535 00:27:31,295 --> 00:27:32,395 So I refused it. 536 00:27:33,175 --> 00:27:35,715 And I listened to something called, 537 00:27:36,095 --> 00:27:37,235 uh, the Truth about Cancer. 538 00:27:37,575 --> 00:27:41,025 And I heard a lot of stories of people 539 00:27:41,045 --> 00:27:42,745 who healed from cancer naturally. 540 00:27:42,765 --> 00:27:46,155 And I decided to try. And so I did. 541 00:27:46,355 --> 00:27:49,635 I tried, um, many different 542 00:27:50,205 --> 00:27:53,065 modalities, treatment plans. 543 00:27:53,885 --> 00:27:56,745 - Did you get pushback from your doctors for that? 544 00:27:57,785 --> 00:28:00,025 - I did, yes. Yes. 545 00:28:00,035 --> 00:28:02,945 There was definitely, I'm gonna say judgment. 546 00:28:04,325 --> 00:28:08,825 Um, and many doctors, you know, 547 00:28:08,825 --> 00:28:10,665 they were very concerned for me. 548 00:28:10,765 --> 00:28:12,585 I'm gonna say they were concerned for me. 549 00:28:12,965 --> 00:28:15,065 And so they, they thought I was crazy. 550 00:28:15,845 --> 00:28:19,495 And you know, that for rectal cancer, 551 00:28:20,795 --> 00:28:25,785 the traditional medicine has 552 00:28:25,905 --> 00:28:30,385 a pretty high success rate, curing rate. 553 00:28:31,165 --> 00:28:35,305 And so they were concerned that I was doing something that, 554 00:28:35,965 --> 00:28:38,385 you know, I would not recover from. 555 00:28:38,925 --> 00:28:42,865 And so it came at me with a judgment 556 00:28:43,205 --> 00:28:44,785 and a lot of concern. 557 00:28:44,925 --> 00:28:47,425 And that was challenging, you know, 558 00:28:47,585 --> 00:28:50,545 'cause I still needed to, to have, um, scans done 559 00:28:51,435 --> 00:28:54,225 while I was doing what it, whatever method I was doing. 560 00:28:54,975 --> 00:28:57,745 - Were you afraid of the chemo and radiation 561 00:28:57,775 --> 00:29:00,945 because of the damage those things do 562 00:29:00,945 --> 00:29:02,105 while they're killing the cancer? 563 00:29:02,485 --> 00:29:05,825 Or was there something else that made you afraid of it? 564 00:29:06,455 --> 00:29:10,705 - Many things. Radiation to, with rectal cancer, 565 00:29:10,885 --> 00:29:14,825 the rectum sits right under the vagina, the uterus, 566 00:29:15,005 --> 00:29:16,665 the bladder, the ovaries. 567 00:29:16,685 --> 00:29:18,385 And so they were all going to get hit. 568 00:29:19,605 --> 00:29:21,745 And the long-term effects from all 569 00:29:21,745 --> 00:29:23,425 of those I wasn't sure about. 570 00:29:24,545 --> 00:29:27,585 I knew that my, my grandmother had osteoporosis 571 00:29:27,645 --> 00:29:29,065 and she had a hysterectomy 572 00:29:29,245 --> 00:29:31,745 and an, was it called it ooo ectomy, uh, 573 00:29:31,745 --> 00:29:35,905 what we ectomy when they take out also the, the ovaries. 574 00:29:36,605 --> 00:29:38,785 And, and then she became hunched back. 575 00:29:38,945 --> 00:29:40,105 I was concerned about that. 576 00:29:40,785 --> 00:29:44,965 I was still considering getting pregnant with a partner 577 00:29:45,475 --> 00:29:46,645 that I didn't have yet. 578 00:29:46,865 --> 00:29:49,125 So all, all of those reasons, um, 579 00:29:50,205 --> 00:29:52,965 I was concerned and afraid of. Yeah. 580 00:29:53,785 --> 00:29:56,885 - And what were the alternative treatments you sought? Um, 581 00:29:58,585 --> 00:30:00,885 - The first one we did a lot of cleansings. 582 00:30:02,355 --> 00:30:05,455 So I took a lot of herbs and mushrooms 583 00:30:05,915 --> 00:30:08,135 and did a lot of cleansings 584 00:30:08,135 --> 00:30:11,455 and went to, um, a guy that had a machine 585 00:30:11,455 --> 00:30:14,655 that would scan the body and like, like a rife machine, 586 00:30:14,795 --> 00:30:17,855 and then would, um, send back frequencies 587 00:30:18,395 --> 00:30:20,095 to kill the, the cancer. 588 00:30:21,935 --> 00:30:26,375 I did that. Um, I went to, um, saunas 589 00:30:27,155 --> 00:30:28,495 to do some heat therapies. 590 00:30:29,615 --> 00:30:34,415 I did UV bloody radiation, uh, 591 00:30:34,545 --> 00:30:39,155 three weeks of vitamins C um, 592 00:30:39,495 --> 00:30:41,915 le trill, which is apricot pit 593 00:30:43,355 --> 00:30:46,835 ozone insufflation, which means there's a catheter that goes 594 00:30:47,015 --> 00:30:50,515 inside the rectum and it's hooked up to an ozone machine. 595 00:30:50,575 --> 00:30:55,395 And I would put that because ozone supposedly o has 596 00:30:55,395 --> 00:30:58,075 to, has a lot of oxygen and that can kill cancer. 597 00:30:58,295 --> 00:31:00,515 So I did a lot of different things. 598 00:31:01,295 --> 00:31:03,995 Um, later on I went to, uh, hope for Cancer. 599 00:31:04,425 --> 00:31:05,835 It's a, a clinic in Mexico. 600 00:31:06,175 --> 00:31:09,225 And I did their, their program 601 00:31:09,965 --> 00:31:12,745 and their program halted the growth. 602 00:31:13,765 --> 00:31:17,305 Um, so it stayed, let's say at five centimeters. 603 00:31:17,685 --> 00:31:20,265 So if at first it was 1.8, then 604 00:31:20,265 --> 00:31:22,465 what I was doing the first step, the first things 605 00:31:22,465 --> 00:31:26,545 that I was doing, it went to 2.2, then 4.5, then five. 606 00:31:27,365 --> 00:31:30,265 - So it was really growing during the alternative therapies. 607 00:31:30,645 --> 00:31:34,545 - It was, - That didn't dissuade you at all? 608 00:31:35,365 --> 00:31:38,505 - Not yet, no. I, I kept believing that there's a way 609 00:31:38,605 --> 00:31:39,785 as a way to make it work. 610 00:31:39,805 --> 00:31:42,185 It worked for them. Why wouldn't it work for me? 611 00:31:42,325 --> 00:31:44,225 You know, it works for some people. 612 00:31:44,845 --> 00:31:46,585 So I just kept reading about people 613 00:31:46,645 --> 00:31:47,705 who were healing from it. 614 00:31:47,805 --> 00:31:49,505 And I said, okay, well if this is not 615 00:31:49,505 --> 00:31:50,545 it, well, let me try this. 616 00:31:51,325 --> 00:31:52,385 The hope for cancer, 617 00:31:52,595 --> 00:31:55,105 their things kept it at five centimeters. 618 00:31:55,485 --> 00:32:00,255 And, but it was $2,000 each month in addition 619 00:32:00,255 --> 00:32:04,515 to the 42,000 that I paid for three weeks 620 00:32:05,605 --> 00:32:08,185 and three and three months supply of the medication. 621 00:32:08,205 --> 00:32:10,065 And I thought, wow, that's too much money 622 00:32:10,215 --> 00:32:11,705 that I'm not going to have. 623 00:32:12,525 --> 00:32:13,545 So I got off of that. 624 00:32:13,745 --> 00:32:16,705 I went to the Optimum Health Institute in San Diego. 625 00:32:17,465 --> 00:32:19,065 I did their three week cleanse, 626 00:32:19,065 --> 00:32:22,345 and then I maintained their program at home. 627 00:32:22,895 --> 00:32:25,225 Then I did a scan and it was 10 centimeters. 628 00:32:26,785 --> 00:32:29,245 - So that's then stage three. 629 00:32:30,195 --> 00:32:32,325 - Yeah. Then it's, yeah, I started moving to, 630 00:32:32,625 --> 00:32:33,885 to the lymph nodes. 631 00:32:34,025 --> 00:32:36,285 Yes. And, but I didn't give up. 632 00:32:36,885 --> 00:32:39,725 I did a three week green juice fast. 633 00:32:39,935 --> 00:32:41,325 There was just some vegetables. 634 00:32:41,995 --> 00:32:44,845 - Were people around you losing their minds 635 00:32:44,915 --> 00:32:49,365 that you were not seeing, that you weren't getting results 636 00:32:49,505 --> 00:32:53,005 and worrying that you were heading toward the abyss? 637 00:32:53,545 --> 00:32:56,445 - Yes. Yes. They were all very scared. 638 00:32:57,865 --> 00:33:01,645 And they all knew that it's my life, it's my choices. 639 00:33:02,245 --> 00:33:05,045 I get to try things the way I get to try them. 640 00:33:06,165 --> 00:33:07,565 I think they were rooting for me, 641 00:33:07,625 --> 00:33:09,885 but they were so scared they had no idea 642 00:33:09,885 --> 00:33:11,085 if I was gonna live or not. 643 00:33:11,435 --> 00:33:14,165 Yeah. That was, that was, you know, wow. That was so tough. 644 00:33:14,165 --> 00:33:17,445 At the beginning. I had to tell everybody, I said, you know, 645 00:33:17,445 --> 00:33:18,605 you might get scared about this, 646 00:33:18,625 --> 00:33:20,205 but if you get scared, I'm gonna get scared. 647 00:33:20,205 --> 00:33:21,205 And I don't wanna get scared. 648 00:33:22,405 --> 00:33:24,385 You know, I, I'm gonna walk some kind of a path. 649 00:33:24,485 --> 00:33:28,705 I'm gonna try it, hope it works, and please be supportive. 650 00:33:28,765 --> 00:33:31,545 And if you can't be supportive, then, you know, 651 00:33:31,555 --> 00:33:34,465 let's not hang out until, until I can. 652 00:33:34,845 --> 00:33:37,345 - So what happened next? - Well, you know, nothing worked. 653 00:33:37,445 --> 00:33:40,665 So I had to finally, you know, I, I went to, 654 00:33:40,765 --> 00:33:42,865 um, to an oncologist. 655 00:33:43,005 --> 00:33:44,665 He was really challenging for me. 656 00:33:44,865 --> 00:33:47,225 'cause he was, I think, really frightened for me. 657 00:33:47,645 --> 00:33:50,185 But he was also like, you're gonna die. 658 00:33:51,985 --> 00:33:54,415 Don't you wanna be cured? Don't you wanna be cured? 659 00:33:55,195 --> 00:33:59,015 Go talk to this surgeon. We're really lucky to have him. 660 00:33:59,235 --> 00:34:01,735 And at the same day, you know, I insisted 661 00:34:01,735 --> 00:34:05,845 that my cousin come with me, insisted that my cousin come 662 00:34:05,845 --> 00:34:06,965 with me because I'm single. 663 00:34:07,065 --> 00:34:08,005 So different people would 664 00:34:08,005 --> 00:34:09,005 come with me to doctor appointments. 665 00:34:09,265 --> 00:34:10,325 Her mom said, I'll come with you. 666 00:34:10,325 --> 00:34:12,005 And I said, no, I want her to come. 667 00:34:12,115 --> 00:34:13,325 Like, it was so clear 668 00:34:13,325 --> 00:34:15,085 that my c this cousin had to come with me. 669 00:34:15,905 --> 00:34:17,045 And when she came 670 00:34:17,065 --> 00:34:20,565 and he said the name of the surgeon, she said, oh, 671 00:34:21,945 --> 00:34:23,245 Ste Steen, Dr. 672 00:34:23,565 --> 00:34:27,165 Steen. I, I know his wife. She was my gynecologist. 673 00:34:27,225 --> 00:34:29,805 Oh, I love her. She's great. She's great, he's great. 674 00:34:30,105 --> 00:34:32,285 And you know what, there was something about that 675 00:34:33,585 --> 00:34:36,155 that made me say, okay, I'll go talk to him. 676 00:34:38,335 --> 00:34:41,865 Yeah. And so I did talk to him. He was a wonderful guy. 677 00:34:43,025 --> 00:34:45,305 I asked him about the treatments. 678 00:34:45,965 --> 00:34:48,425 Um, I, you know, really appreciated him. 679 00:34:48,445 --> 00:34:51,345 He was, he was very kind to me with no judgment. 680 00:34:51,565 --> 00:34:54,265 And he was willing to consider all possibilities. 681 00:34:55,995 --> 00:35:00,735 - Do you find that there is an irony to the fact 682 00:35:00,735 --> 00:35:03,735 that the thing that you feared most about what would happen 683 00:35:04,515 --> 00:35:08,135 had you done this traditional quote, unquote way 684 00:35:08,135 --> 00:35:11,935 of going about killing a cancer when it was still 685 00:35:12,605 --> 00:35:17,015 only stage two, that now at stage three to four was 686 00:35:18,175 --> 00:35:19,415 starting to overwhelm your body 687 00:35:19,555 --> 00:35:22,135 and then would create the scenario where things would 688 00:35:23,115 --> 00:35:25,655 get really hairy, if you will? 689 00:35:26,995 --> 00:35:29,255 - You know, I never, I didn't think about it. 690 00:35:29,775 --> 00:35:31,935 I didn't think about it. I was just like, 691 00:35:32,125 --> 00:35:33,215 this is my next step. 692 00:35:33,925 --> 00:35:37,665 This is my next step. Just, just looking at the next step. 693 00:35:37,805 --> 00:35:41,625 That's it. I mean, and when I got that, you know, 694 00:35:41,785 --> 00:35:45,485 'cause I was still doing all these things, you know, 695 00:35:45,505 --> 00:35:48,265 the beamer all the time. 696 00:35:48,645 --> 00:35:52,195 And when I got the report one day 697 00:35:52,615 --> 00:35:57,375 and it said that the meso rectal fat 698 00:35:58,355 --> 00:35:59,375 was thick 699 00:36:01,135 --> 00:36:05,235 and a couple of lymph nodes, you know, had involvements. 700 00:36:05,295 --> 00:36:09,485 The meso rectal fat is outside of the rectum. 701 00:36:09,485 --> 00:36:12,725 And that's when I was like, okay, , 702 00:36:13,155 --> 00:36:14,605 it's going out of the rectum. 703 00:36:14,605 --> 00:36:19,245 If I don't address it right now, it is gonna be stage four 704 00:36:20,235 --> 00:36:20,735 - Mm-Hmm. . 705 00:36:21,285 --> 00:36:25,065 - Yeah. And that's when I put 706 00:36:25,065 --> 00:36:26,625 that switch on and it was really hard. 707 00:36:26,685 --> 00:36:30,185 It was really hard to say, okay, I'm gonna surrender 708 00:36:30,285 --> 00:36:32,665 and I'm gonna need to use these really harsh treatments. 709 00:36:34,135 --> 00:36:36,035 - And you did get damaged from it? 710 00:36:36,635 --> 00:36:38,075 - I did. Mm-Hmm. - , can we 711 00:36:38,075 --> 00:36:40,275 talk about that a little bit? Whatever you're comfortable 712 00:36:40,275 --> 00:36:41,275 - With. 713 00:36:41,275 --> 00:36:42,555 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. 714 00:36:43,295 --> 00:36:47,355 So with radiation, radiation to the pelvis means it's going 715 00:36:47,355 --> 00:36:48,555 to hit all these organs 716 00:36:48,555 --> 00:36:51,875 for a woman in the pelvis and ferment too. 717 00:36:52,615 --> 00:36:55,355 Uh, but women have more organs in the pelvis. 718 00:36:55,535 --> 00:36:59,495 And so yeah, the ovaries are killed. 719 00:36:59,675 --> 00:37:02,695 So there's immediate menopause, no more estrogen 720 00:37:02,695 --> 00:37:05,815 and progesterone, at least what the ovaries produce. 721 00:37:06,675 --> 00:37:11,405 Then the, the uterus has some scar tissue, 722 00:37:12,265 --> 00:37:14,005 so it's non-functional 723 00:37:14,905 --> 00:37:17,765 and can't go in into the uterus. 724 00:37:18,335 --> 00:37:19,525 After several years 725 00:37:19,575 --> 00:37:21,605 after the radiation treatments, 726 00:37:21,965 --> 00:37:25,485 I started feeling pressure in the lower part of my body, 727 00:37:26,305 --> 00:37:27,965 and then I needed to do a scan 728 00:37:28,545 --> 00:37:31,325 and there was fluid trapped in the cervix 729 00:37:32,165 --> 00:37:33,505 and the cervical canal. 730 00:37:33,965 --> 00:37:37,985 And so they had to go inside and do a DNC, 731 00:37:38,445 --> 00:37:41,825 but not, they couldn't get into the, the uterus 732 00:37:41,825 --> 00:37:43,625 because of the scar tissue, but they had to open it 733 00:37:44,045 --> 00:37:45,505 for the water to drain. 734 00:37:46,225 --> 00:37:47,625 A year later. The same thing, 735 00:37:47,775 --> 00:37:50,425 because the tissue is irradiated. 736 00:37:50,565 --> 00:37:52,145 It is not a normal tissue. 737 00:37:52,405 --> 00:37:53,905 It never goes back to being normal. 738 00:37:54,685 --> 00:37:56,585 So, you know, radiation finished. 739 00:37:57,405 --> 00:38:00,865 And I, I was told about menopause and the ovaries 740 00:38:01,005 --> 00:38:03,905 and the uterus, and there was 15% chance 741 00:38:03,905 --> 00:38:06,705 that the bladder would be also affected. 742 00:38:08,515 --> 00:38:12,905 I was lucky that mine wasn't, two weeks later, af no, 743 00:38:12,905 --> 00:38:15,545 two weeks later, two months later, I had sex 744 00:38:15,895 --> 00:38:17,945 with a partner and it hurt. 745 00:38:18,845 --> 00:38:21,345 And, and I didn't know why. 746 00:38:22,105 --> 00:38:24,145 I thought, why, why does penetration hurt? 747 00:38:25,665 --> 00:38:26,965 No one said anything. I thought, okay, 748 00:38:26,965 --> 00:38:30,205 maybe still from the radiation, maybe it hasn't healed yet, 749 00:38:30,235 --> 00:38:31,645 even though it's been two months. 750 00:38:32,635 --> 00:38:36,725 Okay. A few days later, I got a, I got a text from my sister 751 00:38:37,185 --> 00:38:41,365 and it said, my friend who is a radiation oncologist told me 752 00:38:41,365 --> 00:38:45,085 to tell you that radiation oncologists usually don't talk 753 00:38:45,085 --> 00:38:47,725 about it, but you need to use dilators. 754 00:38:48,385 --> 00:38:49,925 And I thought, what are dilators? 755 00:38:50,785 --> 00:38:54,045 No one ever mentioned that. I, I had no idea. Like what? 756 00:38:54,585 --> 00:38:56,525 So I, look, I went, you know, looked online. 757 00:38:56,555 --> 00:38:59,885 What are dilators? Huh? How interesting. 758 00:39:00,405 --> 00:39:03,125 I, but I had surgery coming up in, in 10 days. 759 00:39:03,225 --> 00:39:07,795 So, so I didn't look into it, you know, very deeply. 760 00:39:07,955 --> 00:39:09,555 I said, I'll deal with it after surgeries, 761 00:39:09,555 --> 00:39:11,955 and there was surgery, blah, blah, blah. 762 00:39:12,455 --> 00:39:15,465 And then, um, sometime 763 00:39:15,465 --> 00:39:20,035 after that, um, I met a woman, she was introduced to me 764 00:39:21,095 --> 00:39:24,515 and she had anal cancer and she had radiation. 765 00:39:25,235 --> 00:39:26,645 Okay? This was like three years later. 766 00:39:27,465 --> 00:39:30,935 And I said, Hey, do you have any, any pain? 767 00:39:31,635 --> 00:39:32,975 You know, how's your sexuality? 768 00:39:32,995 --> 00:39:36,215 Do you have any, any vaginal pain with penetration? 769 00:39:36,835 --> 00:39:41,815 And she said, oh, um, well, I had radiation three years ago, 770 00:39:42,755 --> 00:39:47,555 and a lot of scar tissue built up in the vagina. 771 00:39:47,735 --> 00:39:51,835 And so my husband and I, we can't have penetration 772 00:39:52,765 --> 00:39:55,055 because it's all closed up. 773 00:39:55,765 --> 00:39:57,025 The vagina is closed. 774 00:39:57,685 --> 00:39:59,905 And I said, wow, did anybody tell you that? 775 00:40:00,405 --> 00:40:03,065 Did they tell you that could happen? Would happen? 776 00:40:03,815 --> 00:40:06,265 Were you informed at all? And she said, no. 777 00:40:06,965 --> 00:40:10,665 And I was like, wow, that's amazing. That's her and me. 778 00:40:11,325 --> 00:40:13,905 And then I met another woman that had rectal cancer. 779 00:40:13,905 --> 00:40:15,625 And I said, did you have radiation? She said, yes. 780 00:40:15,625 --> 00:40:17,825 And I said, do you have pain within intercourse? 781 00:40:18,325 --> 00:40:19,385 And she said, I do. 782 00:40:19,885 --> 00:40:21,705 And I said, did anyone tell you that you, 783 00:40:21,735 --> 00:40:22,905 that would, that would happen? 784 00:40:22,965 --> 00:40:26,385 And she said, no. And at that point I joined 785 00:40:27,485 --> 00:40:30,225 two colorectal Facebook pages 786 00:40:31,085 --> 00:40:35,065 and I started posting is, is this normal? 787 00:40:35,335 --> 00:40:38,945 Were you told, you know, what do you do with this pain? 788 00:40:39,205 --> 00:40:41,265 How do you deal with it? How do you have sex? 789 00:40:41,265 --> 00:40:42,385 How, how do you stay sexual? 790 00:40:44,235 --> 00:40:48,215 And there were a lot of angry posts from a lot 791 00:40:48,215 --> 00:40:51,495 of very angry women, um, 792 00:40:51,515 --> 00:40:53,975 saying they weren't told that. 793 00:40:54,045 --> 00:40:57,055 They told me that, you know, dilators have to be used. 794 00:40:57,725 --> 00:41:01,455 Some of them said that on radiation oncologist office gave 795 00:41:01,455 --> 00:41:03,255 them dilators. 796 00:41:04,485 --> 00:41:06,255 Some women said, wow, I can't believe it. 797 00:41:06,285 --> 00:41:08,175 What today they still don't tell you. 798 00:41:08,175 --> 00:41:12,095 And in 2018, they still don't, don't say anything about it. 799 00:41:12,425 --> 00:41:13,975 There was a lot of surprise. 800 00:41:14,375 --> 00:41:16,975 I I asked them, you know, what about the pain? 801 00:41:16,975 --> 00:41:18,695 And they said, well, you just lived through it. 802 00:41:19,515 --> 00:41:23,455 You know, you, you, you, you, you know, try to masturbate, 803 00:41:23,795 --> 00:41:26,335 try to use vibration to distract the pain. 804 00:41:27,395 --> 00:41:30,175 And so I, you know, this was all new. 805 00:41:30,355 --> 00:41:34,205 It was all new because I didn't know this was not 806 00:41:34,275 --> 00:41:35,765 told, not shared. 807 00:41:36,425 --> 00:41:37,765 And I, I had no idea. 808 00:41:37,825 --> 00:41:41,245 And here I am in a dilemma, you know, after chemo 809 00:41:41,385 --> 00:41:44,605 and surgery and living with a stoma, trying 810 00:41:44,605 --> 00:41:47,005 to figure out the stoma needed to figure out sexuality. 811 00:41:47,745 --> 00:41:49,885 Um, so it took, it took a while. 812 00:41:50,645 --> 00:41:53,285 I went to a couple of different gynecologists. 813 00:41:53,635 --> 00:41:55,685 They said the pain was because of dryness. 814 00:41:55,685 --> 00:41:57,525 And I was like, it's not because of dryness. 815 00:41:57,715 --> 00:42:00,445 There's something else. They're like, no, no, it's 816 00:42:00,445 --> 00:42:02,605 because of dryness, because you're menopausal now. 817 00:42:03,265 --> 00:42:06,805 No, no, that's not it. Okay. Take ex estrogen creams. 818 00:42:08,625 --> 00:42:11,475 Okay. That's for the, you know, to, to, 819 00:42:11,535 --> 00:42:14,395 to have more lubrication in the, in the vagina. 820 00:42:15,175 --> 00:42:20,075 So, um, I called back the radiation oncologist and office 821 00:42:20,175 --> 00:42:22,875 and I said, Hey, so I'm, I, 822 00:42:23,115 --> 00:42:25,595 I have vaginal damage from the radiation. 823 00:42:26,175 --> 00:42:30,955 I'm told that offices give women dilators. 824 00:42:31,535 --> 00:42:34,875 And they said, we only give them to 825 00:42:35,665 --> 00:42:37,395 gynecological cancers. 826 00:42:37,815 --> 00:42:39,355 And I said, you're kidding me, right? 827 00:42:39,905 --> 00:42:43,805 Like, the rectum is right under the vagina 828 00:42:43,985 --> 00:42:47,285 and it gets hit when you're focusing on the rectum. 829 00:42:47,465 --> 00:42:49,125 It passes through the vagina. 830 00:42:49,585 --> 00:42:51,045 I'm sorry, we just don't do that. 831 00:42:51,865 --> 00:42:55,365 My disbelief, my anger, my rage just went up the roof. 832 00:42:55,565 --> 00:42:58,085 'cause I was thinking, what, how, how is this possible? 833 00:42:58,785 --> 00:43:02,445 How are they just so unaware, uncaring, inhumane? 834 00:43:03,085 --> 00:43:05,365 I mean, lots of women go through this is, 835 00:43:05,385 --> 00:43:06,605 I'm not the first person. 836 00:43:07,905 --> 00:43:10,125 So that was really shocking to me. 837 00:43:10,985 --> 00:43:12,005 And after that, 838 00:43:12,325 --> 00:43:15,405 I did a really big survey on the colorectal face 839 00:43:15,965 --> 00:43:17,845 Facebook pages, and I asked, you know, who, 840 00:43:18,585 --> 00:43:21,005 how many women were told of all the effects. 841 00:43:21,345 --> 00:43:24,005 So then I learned that it was the scar tissue through the, 842 00:43:24,005 --> 00:43:27,565 through the women on the Facebook pages, they explained 843 00:43:27,565 --> 00:43:30,525 to me that what's painful is that there's scar tissue 844 00:43:31,505 --> 00:43:34,645 in the vagina and the nerves get hit there 845 00:43:35,185 --> 00:43:36,845 and they're hypersensitive. 846 00:43:36,985 --> 00:43:39,765 So it doesn't matter whether it's a speculum that goes in a, 847 00:43:40,005 --> 00:43:43,245 a hand, a finger, a penis, it's going to hurt 848 00:43:43,395 --> 00:43:46,805 because it rubs against those nerves 849 00:43:46,825 --> 00:43:49,125 and it, they send these pain signals. 850 00:43:49,545 --> 00:43:52,325 So with pain signals, who wants to, to, to have sex? 851 00:43:52,585 --> 00:43:56,345 Nobody who wants to use the, the dilators? Nobody. Why? 852 00:43:56,345 --> 00:43:57,625 Because it's painful. So I kept 853 00:43:57,625 --> 00:43:58,705 asking, what do you do with pain? 854 00:43:58,705 --> 00:44:01,565 What do you do with pain? What do you do with pain? 855 00:44:01,565 --> 00:44:03,645 Then one woman, finally, after, 856 00:44:03,815 --> 00:44:06,285 after a long time, she said, she said that 857 00:44:06,415 --> 00:44:10,405 after she saw five different gynecologists, the last one 858 00:44:11,115 --> 00:44:14,525 gave her a recipe with some nerve blocker. 859 00:44:15,315 --> 00:44:17,605 That helps. And I was like, okay, 860 00:44:17,625 --> 00:44:19,085 so there's a nerve blocker. 861 00:44:20,645 --> 00:44:24,175 Okay, then I could use the dilator. Yeah. 862 00:44:24,315 --> 00:44:26,855 So yeah, that was kind of the process. 863 00:44:27,155 --> 00:44:29,095 And out of the survey that I did, 864 00:44:29,095 --> 00:44:33,405 and this was in September of 2018, a hundred women got back 865 00:44:33,405 --> 00:44:38,125 to me and 25 of them basically were told everything. 866 00:44:38,995 --> 00:44:43,505 Great. Yay. There are people that are told and are supported 867 00:44:43,505 --> 00:44:46,625 and wonderful, and about 12% 868 00:44:47,535 --> 00:44:50,795 were told partial things, not the whole thing, 869 00:44:50,895 --> 00:44:55,375 but they had either friends who had this before them, 870 00:44:55,435 --> 00:44:59,055 or they were on the Facebook pages and read women's posts 871 00:44:59,075 --> 00:45:02,495 and then asked their, their radiation oncologist 872 00:45:02,795 --> 00:45:05,595 for dilators. 873 00:45:05,735 --> 00:45:06,915 And they asked questions. 874 00:45:07,615 --> 00:45:11,395 And 63 women that got back to me were not told 875 00:45:11,815 --> 00:45:14,435 of anything sexual that's going to be different 876 00:45:14,435 --> 00:45:15,835 after radiation treatment. 877 00:45:17,075 --> 00:45:21,335 And yeah, lots of very angry, A lot of pain. 878 00:45:22,055 --> 00:45:24,295 A lot of pain. And so, you know, 879 00:45:24,295 --> 00:45:25,455 after reading that I said, 880 00:45:25,455 --> 00:45:26,815 you know, I just can't let that go. 881 00:45:27,775 --> 00:45:30,275 You know, I can't let that's, that's gonna go in the book. 882 00:45:30,935 --> 00:45:34,355 And somehow I want these women to have a voice, 883 00:45:35,695 --> 00:45:39,115 and I want them to have a voice along with my voice. 884 00:45:39,385 --> 00:45:40,995 Yeah. Things need to be different. 885 00:45:41,045 --> 00:45:43,795 There has to be transparency, there has 886 00:45:43,795 --> 00:45:45,315 to be medical transparency 887 00:45:46,505 --> 00:45:48,925 and a shared decision making with the patient. 888 00:45:50,155 --> 00:45:53,925 This is what's going to happen. Why do we do this? 889 00:45:53,925 --> 00:45:56,885 Because this is the percent survival, 890 00:45:57,185 --> 00:45:58,605 but these are all the things 891 00:45:58,605 --> 00:45:59,885 you're gonna need to deal with after. 892 00:46:00,835 --> 00:46:05,525 - Yeah. It is to me just a, a commentary, if you will, 893 00:46:06,025 --> 00:46:10,565 on the value of women in society, especially when it comes 894 00:46:10,565 --> 00:46:13,205 to their sexuality and what it's worth. 895 00:46:14,825 --> 00:46:18,475 - Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna say it hasn't yet sunk in 896 00:46:19,455 --> 00:46:20,835 to the whole of society. 897 00:46:20,895 --> 00:46:24,515 I'm gonna say the medical field to 898 00:46:25,695 --> 00:46:29,475 how important that is, how important sexuality is for, 899 00:46:30,015 --> 00:46:34,875 for being human, for our connecting with a partner. Well, 900 00:46:34,875 --> 00:46:38,355 - I've had a biopsy in, in my, you know, uterine biopsy. 901 00:46:38,945 --> 00:46:40,395 They don't anesthetize you, 902 00:46:40,395 --> 00:46:42,475 they don't give you any kind of numbing, nothing. 903 00:46:42,545 --> 00:46:45,155 They just like, this is gonna hurt like a motherfucker 904 00:46:45,815 --> 00:46:48,155 for a real quick second, and then they do it. 905 00:46:48,155 --> 00:46:50,715 And I, after I had that done, it was negative. 906 00:46:51,135 --> 00:46:53,955 But after it was done, I asked around, 907 00:46:54,135 --> 00:46:56,915 and many women had had the same experience. 908 00:46:56,915 --> 00:46:59,635 And I thought, my god, they would never do that 909 00:46:59,635 --> 00:47:00,995 to a man ever. 910 00:47:01,785 --> 00:47:03,915 He's numb to high heaven when they take care 911 00:47:03,915 --> 00:47:05,755 of the old vasectomy situation. 912 00:47:05,895 --> 00:47:06,955 You know what I mean? 913 00:47:07,775 --> 00:47:10,915 and women are just expected to endure these things. 914 00:47:11,705 --> 00:47:15,915 - Yeah. So, yeah, I think that you're right. 915 00:47:15,915 --> 00:47:18,695 And there's just, it's just, I don't, I don't know if, 916 00:47:18,695 --> 00:47:20,935 whether it's people not being comfortable 917 00:47:21,015 --> 00:47:24,415 with women's sexuality, talking about women's sexuality. 918 00:47:24,675 --> 00:47:28,815 Yes, yes. Yeah. Or whether it's complete ignorance. Yes. 919 00:47:29,185 --> 00:47:33,125 You know, lack of awareness. Yes. . Um, yeah. Scott 920 00:47:33,285 --> 00:47:34,525 - Speaking on the line, really - . 921 00:47:34,555 --> 00:47:39,045 Yeah. You know, some, some centers now do talk about it. 922 00:47:39,315 --> 00:47:40,525 Some centers are great. 923 00:47:41,045 --> 00:47:42,405 I was just reading yesterday 924 00:47:42,745 --> 00:47:46,605 for Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, that part 925 00:47:46,605 --> 00:47:51,085 of their treatment plan with rectal cancer, female patients 926 00:47:51,625 --> 00:47:55,405 is they send them to, to a, um, to a sex therapist 927 00:47:56,725 --> 00:47:57,825 as part of the center 928 00:47:58,325 --> 00:48:01,065 to talk about what's gonna happen, how it's gonna happen. 929 00:48:01,355 --> 00:48:06,065 Great. But that should be the standard everywhere across 930 00:48:06,205 --> 00:48:07,205 - The board. 931 00:48:07,205 --> 00:48:09,505 Sure. Standard of care. But I think you're right. 932 00:48:09,665 --> 00:48:12,505 I think there is, there's something about 933 00:48:14,165 --> 00:48:17,825 the shame around sexuality more specifically 934 00:48:17,845 --> 00:48:20,785 and how it is for people with uterus 935 00:48:22,095 --> 00:48:23,395 or people with vaginas. 936 00:48:23,705 --> 00:48:26,595 - Yeah. You know, when I first started receiving the 937 00:48:27,105 --> 00:48:29,435 radiation treatment, within a week, I could start 938 00:48:29,435 --> 00:48:32,675 to feel the labia buzzing lab and clitoris. 939 00:48:32,675 --> 00:48:35,595 And I was like, why are they buzzing? Why are they buzzing? 940 00:48:35,655 --> 00:48:39,655 Are they irradiating the labia? 941 00:48:39,655 --> 00:48:43,655 Like, like, am I like gonna be like sexually nonfunctional? 942 00:48:44,515 --> 00:48:47,055 And I went to the, to the technician 943 00:48:47,275 --> 00:48:50,695 and I said, listen, my labia is buzzing, so 944 00:48:51,655 --> 00:48:52,775 I think something's wrong here, 945 00:48:52,795 --> 00:48:54,815 and I think they need to look at the calculations. 946 00:48:55,935 --> 00:48:58,275 And he brought me to the radiation oncologist 947 00:48:58,935 --> 00:49:00,075 and I said the same thing. 948 00:49:00,095 --> 00:49:02,035 And he said, okay, let, let, let us check. 949 00:49:02,695 --> 00:49:06,275 And the next day when I came, I went to visit him 950 00:49:06,775 --> 00:49:10,315 before going to the treatment, and he said that I was right. 951 00:49:11,305 --> 00:49:14,405 And they, and they changed their calculations. 952 00:49:15,065 --> 00:49:17,845 But isn't that amazing, the errors, 953 00:49:18,265 --> 00:49:22,965 the not paying attention, the not, not meticulous about 954 00:49:23,635 --> 00:49:27,565 valuing, again, sexuality, women's sexuality can, that, 955 00:49:27,955 --> 00:49:32,245 that is so important to preserve pleasure 956 00:49:32,385 --> 00:49:36,285 and bonding, that they really, for those types 957 00:49:36,285 --> 00:49:39,165 of calculations, they have to look really, really like, 958 00:49:39,825 --> 00:49:40,965 do 'em over and over 959 00:49:41,025 --> 00:49:43,405 and make sure, can we do it this way or another way? 960 00:49:43,425 --> 00:49:46,725 Or how can we not go through that area? 961 00:49:47,315 --> 00:49:48,485 Yeah, yeah. 962 00:49:48,485 --> 00:49:51,365 And, and I'm guessing that there are women 963 00:49:52,145 --> 00:49:54,925 who wouldn't say anything. Oh, 964 00:49:54,925 --> 00:49:55,925 - Of course. 965 00:49:55,975 --> 00:49:59,445 Let's talk about the book, uh, healing the deepest wounds. 966 00:50:00,985 --> 00:50:03,485 You decided to take all this information 967 00:50:03,825 --> 00:50:05,965 and to be a voice for the voiceless. 968 00:50:06,825 --> 00:50:09,295 - Yes, yes, yes. 969 00:50:09,735 --> 00:50:12,485 I wrote a book and it does it, 970 00:50:12,585 --> 00:50:14,325 it contains the whole journey. 971 00:50:15,165 --> 00:50:19,965 I did wanna be a voice for the voiceless. Yeah, yeah. 972 00:50:20,025 --> 00:50:23,605 And, and to raise awareness about how important it is 973 00:50:25,765 --> 00:50:27,405 to keep the patient 974 00:50:27,665 --> 00:50:32,485 and women specifically their 975 00:50:32,485 --> 00:50:36,325 wellbeing after these treatments, especially radiation, 976 00:50:36,325 --> 00:50:41,305 especially to the pelvis, you know, that has to be part 977 00:50:41,305 --> 00:50:44,755 of the standard of care and has to be talked about. 978 00:50:45,895 --> 00:50:48,075 And honesty and transparency. 979 00:50:49,335 --> 00:50:52,745 This is what's going to happen. You know? 980 00:50:52,805 --> 00:50:57,185 So I mean, I would love there to be a, you know, a, 981 00:50:57,305 --> 00:50:59,505 a universal sheet of paper, a video 982 00:51:00,035 --> 00:51:03,105 explaining a consultation with a sex therapy 983 00:51:03,245 --> 00:51:06,225 or a sexual health nurse ahead of time, 984 00:51:06,925 --> 00:51:10,515 and a sexual health nurse checking in with the patient 985 00:51:10,695 --> 00:51:11,715 during treatment, 986 00:51:11,725 --> 00:51:15,575 after treatment constantly, you know, to make sure 987 00:51:15,575 --> 00:51:18,055 that sexual health is preserved. 988 00:51:19,125 --> 00:51:20,615 It's not going to be in all cases 989 00:51:20,885 --> 00:51:22,935 because of the nature of all, of 990 00:51:22,935 --> 00:51:25,215 how tight everything is in the pelvis. 991 00:51:25,835 --> 00:51:28,135 You know, cancers can grow, especially again, 992 00:51:28,195 --> 00:51:30,375 if women don't stand up to themselves 993 00:51:30,435 --> 00:51:32,895 and they don't go to the doctor when they see bleeding in, 994 00:51:32,895 --> 00:51:35,375 in the rectum, you know, bleeding on the stool. 995 00:51:35,885 --> 00:51:38,895 They don't go and say, check this, check this, check this. 996 00:51:38,895 --> 00:51:41,095 It's not a hemorrhoid, it's not a hemorrhoid check. 997 00:51:41,185 --> 00:51:44,215 Again, they don't do that in time. 998 00:51:44,715 --> 00:51:49,295 It can spread to the vagina, to the ovary, to the uterus, 999 00:51:49,355 --> 00:51:53,415 you know, and, and then a part of that could be taken out. 1000 00:51:54,155 --> 00:51:56,015 So many things there are so important to 1001 00:51:56,325 --> 00:52:00,895 - Statistically speaking, uh, they are seeing a huge 1002 00:52:01,615 --> 00:52:06,095 increase in colon cancer among young women specifically. 1003 00:52:06,275 --> 00:52:09,415 But in just the younger generations. Here's the thing. 1004 00:52:09,415 --> 00:52:12,775 Well, when people get colonoscopies, they're supposed 1005 00:52:12,775 --> 00:52:14,855 to get them age 50 and onward. 1006 00:52:15,395 --> 00:52:18,295 But it's starting to happen to people at such a young age 1007 00:52:18,845 --> 00:52:22,375 that if you are feeling like something is wrong, 1008 00:52:22,645 --> 00:52:25,615 just across the board, oh, whatever gender you are, 1009 00:52:25,615 --> 00:52:29,455 however, it doesn't matter if you feel like something is 1010 00:52:29,545 --> 00:52:32,255 wrong, stand up for yourself. 1011 00:52:32,655 --> 00:52:35,015 'cause nobody else is gonna do that for you. 1012 00:52:35,475 --> 00:52:38,495 And likely, I mean, if you have an advocate, great, 1013 00:52:39,235 --> 00:52:40,415 but most of us don't. 1014 00:52:41,745 --> 00:52:44,205 And you are important, and you deserve to be treated 1015 00:52:44,275 --> 00:52:46,965 with respect and dignity and have your voice 1016 00:52:47,385 --> 00:52:48,965 and your body be heard. 1017 00:52:49,365 --> 00:52:51,445 I cannot stress that enough to the listeners. 1018 00:52:51,995 --> 00:52:53,925 It's so important. It's vital. 1019 00:52:54,835 --> 00:52:56,365 - Yeah. It's so important. 1020 00:52:56,625 --> 00:52:58,645 You know, I keep saying in the, in the book, over 1021 00:52:58,645 --> 00:53:00,325 and over, advocate for yourself. 1022 00:53:00,725 --> 00:53:04,125 Advocate for yourself. Advocate for yourself. Yeah. 1023 00:53:04,125 --> 00:53:06,045 Because no one's gonna do it. 1024 00:53:06,045 --> 00:53:09,405 And, and actually it's, it's our job. It's our job. 1025 00:53:09,625 --> 00:53:11,445 We are the ones living in this body 1026 00:53:12,385 --> 00:53:15,125 and advocating is actually empowerment. 1027 00:53:15,225 --> 00:53:18,885 And especially for us women who, you know, were, were, 1028 00:53:18,995 --> 00:53:22,965 were kind of reared to be nice to, you know, not, 1029 00:53:23,145 --> 00:53:26,165 not make trouble to, you know, authority, 1030 00:53:26,185 --> 00:53:27,285 listen to authority. 1031 00:53:28,015 --> 00:53:30,885 Especially this is, this is a journey of empowerment. 1032 00:53:31,035 --> 00:53:34,085 It's like, I'm gonna stand up, I'm gonna stand up for me. 1033 00:53:34,845 --> 00:53:37,145 Yes. And I have to do it. I have to do it. 1034 00:53:37,725 --> 00:53:39,425 You know, it's a matter of life and death 1035 00:53:39,725 --> 00:53:41,185 and we have to do it. 1036 00:53:42,445 --> 00:53:45,935 Yeah. When I saw that smear, that red smear 1037 00:53:47,165 --> 00:53:50,425 on the stool, it was clear, something is wrong. 1038 00:53:51,055 --> 00:53:52,625 - Also, I advocate being a poop. 1039 00:53:52,655 --> 00:53:55,065 Look, looker, look at your poop. , . 1040 00:53:55,135 --> 00:53:57,185 It's certainly gonna tell you a lot about 1041 00:53:57,185 --> 00:53:58,265 your health and wellbeing. 1042 00:53:58,665 --> 00:54:02,545 for sure. It's interesting. 1043 00:54:03,015 --> 00:54:07,065 It's such a journey that you spent all this time 1044 00:54:08,205 --> 00:54:09,945 in the soul searching and, 1045 00:54:10,005 --> 00:54:13,665 and touching that part that is so not of 1046 00:54:15,055 --> 00:54:17,555 the grounded body, if you will, 1047 00:54:18,095 --> 00:54:21,315 and then being so forced into your body 1048 00:54:22,095 --> 00:54:23,395 to have to stand up for it. 1049 00:54:24,265 --> 00:54:26,115 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1050 00:54:26,375 --> 00:54:30,875 It was, yeah, interesting and weird and odd and, and 1051 00:54:31,005 --> 00:54:32,555 - Terrifying and all of the things. 1052 00:54:32,785 --> 00:54:34,995 - Yeah. Where - Are you now with your health journey? 1053 00:54:36,015 --> 00:54:38,355 - I'm good. It's been so, all the stuff 1054 00:54:38,355 --> 00:54:39,875 that I was afraid of, I did. 1055 00:54:40,575 --> 00:54:43,555 Um, and, and it did, it did save my life. 1056 00:54:44,095 --> 00:54:45,755 All the doctors saved my life, all the, 1057 00:54:46,095 --> 00:54:47,275 the equipment saved my life. 1058 00:54:47,795 --> 00:54:52,075 I finished chemo in January of 2018, 1059 00:54:52,575 --> 00:54:55,275 and my second surgery was in April of 2018. 1060 00:54:55,495 --> 00:54:59,755 So I'm good. Yeah. And I do my best. 1061 00:54:59,755 --> 00:55:01,315 Obviously this is a different body. 1062 00:55:02,065 --> 00:55:04,795 It's a di I had to learn how to do sexuality. 1063 00:55:04,955 --> 00:55:06,995 I had to learn how to, you know, uh, 1064 00:55:07,135 --> 00:55:10,915 an irradiated tissue in the vagina, uh, 1065 00:55:11,025 --> 00:55:13,875 with menopause is not a normal tissue. 1066 00:55:14,015 --> 00:55:16,155 And regular, you know, 1067 00:55:16,155 --> 00:55:19,115 thrusting sexuality isn't the best option. 1068 00:55:19,375 --> 00:55:21,475 So I had to learn 1069 00:55:21,535 --> 00:55:24,675 and educate myself on other ways of being sexual 1070 00:55:25,015 --> 00:55:28,515 and more tender with my female parts now. 1071 00:55:29,535 --> 00:55:32,115 And that's good. I've learned how I've learned how to do it, 1072 00:55:32,695 --> 00:55:36,755 and I'm grateful there is pain if I don't use the cream. 1073 00:55:36,755 --> 00:55:39,635 There's, there's always pain with penetration. 1074 00:55:40,965 --> 00:55:43,745 It goes away after, after penetration. 1075 00:55:43,805 --> 00:55:46,225 And so, you know, it's, it's good. 1076 00:55:46,805 --> 00:55:50,105 And, you know, I have a, a new, I don't have a rectum. 1077 00:55:50,605 --> 00:55:54,185 And so living with outer rectum as it's the whole other way, 1078 00:55:54,725 --> 00:55:58,985 you know, of living, and it took a long time to 1079 00:55:59,795 --> 00:56:03,385 learn how to be with that, but Okay. 1080 00:56:03,965 --> 00:56:06,825 - Do you, you have to use an external bag? 1081 00:56:07,465 --> 00:56:08,865 - I don't have an external bag anymore 1082 00:56:08,865 --> 00:56:11,385 because they reversed the ileostomy. 1083 00:56:12,465 --> 00:56:15,385 I had it reversed, um, in 2018. 1084 00:56:15,415 --> 00:56:16,545 That was the second surgery, 1085 00:56:16,765 --> 00:56:21,305 and then the body had to learn how to work again. 1086 00:56:21,365 --> 00:56:24,485 Now my colon was asleep for eight and a half months. 1087 00:56:24,865 --> 00:56:28,325 It wasn't working. And so imagine all the gut 1088 00:56:29,015 --> 00:56:31,845 flora has died, the good gut flora has died. 1089 00:56:32,105 --> 00:56:35,845 So it's probably pretty, pretty nasty stuff in there. Okay. 1090 00:56:35,845 --> 00:56:37,925 That has probably received some chemotherapy and mutated. 1091 00:56:38,225 --> 00:56:39,405 So I was pretty nasty in there. 1092 00:56:39,985 --> 00:56:44,685 The lining, the mucus lining of the colon that was asleep 1093 00:56:45,025 --> 00:56:46,165 for eight and a half months. 1094 00:56:47,575 --> 00:56:52,195 Um, when, when they first reconnected me, uh, it, the, 1095 00:56:52,455 --> 00:56:57,195 the, the, the mucus lining wasn't normal as it is. 1096 00:56:57,295 --> 00:57:01,795 And so what happened was that the, when CO would come out, 1097 00:57:03,275 --> 00:57:07,255 and I would need to have many bowel movements a day, 1098 00:57:07,525 --> 00:57:12,085 because rectum is, is, is a storage, it's stores. 1099 00:57:13,065 --> 00:57:15,045 And then when you don't have a storage, every time you eat, 1100 00:57:15,045 --> 00:57:18,165 you gotta go eat, go eat, go eat, go eat. Yeah. Or a 1101 00:57:18,165 --> 00:57:20,085 - Tube basically , it's - A two. 1102 00:57:20,115 --> 00:57:23,005 Yeah. Without, without a, a storage unit, it, 1103 00:57:23,025 --> 00:57:24,285 it would become acidic 1104 00:57:25,625 --> 00:57:28,525 and then the acidity would kind of burn around the anus. 1105 00:57:28,525 --> 00:57:32,445 So it, it really, it took probably a year for the acidity 1106 00:57:32,625 --> 00:57:34,525 to, to, to leave. 1107 00:57:35,585 --> 00:57:38,045 And that first year was, was so 1108 00:57:38,645 --> 00:57:39,925 challenging. So challenging. I 1109 00:57:39,945 --> 00:57:40,945 - Bet. 1110 00:57:40,945 --> 00:57:42,805 Oof. You have endured a lot. 1111 00:57:43,105 --> 00:57:46,245 And I mean, another thing of advocacy is now advocating 1112 00:57:46,245 --> 00:57:47,725 to your sexual partners. 1113 00:57:48,265 --> 00:57:50,765 And by you, I mean the role you, anyone that has to go 1114 00:57:50,765 --> 00:57:53,645 through this, I mean, one has to advocate 1115 00:57:53,645 --> 00:57:55,565 with sexual partners anyway. 1116 00:57:55,705 --> 00:58:00,125 That's the beauty of having sexual partners is you get 1117 00:58:00,125 --> 00:58:01,605 to say what it is that works for you 1118 00:58:01,625 --> 00:58:03,285 and doesn't work for you and things like that. 1119 00:58:03,915 --> 00:58:08,205 Have you found those conversations to be easier now 1120 00:58:08,205 --> 00:58:10,765 that you have had to advocate for yourself for so long? 1121 00:58:11,305 --> 00:58:13,205 - I'm so, I'm so open as it is. 1122 00:58:13,845 --> 00:58:16,485 I mean, this is why I can write about it so openly. 1123 00:58:17,265 --> 00:58:20,045 You know, I've been playing with this book forever and ever, 1124 00:58:20,745 --> 00:58:22,765 and I'm constantly doing things with it. 1125 00:58:22,765 --> 00:58:24,885 And so when I, when I date 1126 00:58:24,945 --> 00:58:26,925 and people say, oh, what, you know, what are you doing? 1127 00:58:26,945 --> 00:58:29,205 And I'm saying, oh, I'm editing. What are you editing? 1128 00:58:29,225 --> 00:58:31,725 Oh, I'm writing a book. What's about, about rectal cancer? 1129 00:58:31,805 --> 00:58:32,525 I had rectal cancer, 1130 00:58:32,555 --> 00:58:33,725 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 1131 00:58:34,145 --> 00:58:35,365 You know, it's a lot about, you know, 1132 00:58:35,365 --> 00:58:37,285 it's got a lot about sexuality, blah, blah, blah. 1133 00:58:37,385 --> 00:58:39,845 And then I tell them, you know, radiation did this. 1134 00:58:39,875 --> 00:58:42,245 It's in the vagina, so there's pain, there's scar tissue. 1135 00:58:42,265 --> 00:58:44,085 And so sexuality is different for me, 1136 00:58:44,665 --> 00:58:46,805 and I'm pretty matter of fact about it. 1137 00:58:46,905 --> 00:58:51,645 I'm not like, uh, let me tell you, uh, you know, no, 1138 00:58:51,705 --> 00:58:53,285 I'm just like, this is how it is. 1139 00:58:53,915 --> 00:58:57,645 Sexuality is different and, and then I have to teach. Yeah. 1140 00:58:58,265 --> 00:59:01,365 And so far everybody has wanted to learn . 1141 00:59:03,145 --> 00:59:04,565 - That's great. That's great. 1142 00:59:04,955 --> 00:59:07,765 Tell everyone how they may find you in your book, 1143 00:59:07,945 --> 00:59:09,965 and if they have questions for you. 1144 00:59:10,625 --> 00:59:13,245 - The name of the book is Healing The Deepest Wounds, 1145 00:59:13,595 --> 00:59:16,685 life Giving Lessons From My Journey with Rectal Cancer, 1146 00:59:16,815 --> 00:59:19,965 stage two three by Erit Sherman, 1147 00:59:20,485 --> 00:59:24,445 K-I-N-E-R-E-T, Sherman, S-A-G-R-M-A-N. 1148 00:59:25,005 --> 00:59:29,405 I also have, uh, a website t sherman.com, 1149 00:59:29,905 --> 00:59:32,765 and you can contact me through there or Facebook. 1150 00:59:33,295 --> 00:59:36,805 - Great. I really appreciate your story and your time 1151 00:59:37,185 --> 00:59:41,085 and your honesty and integrity with your journey. 1152 00:59:41,425 --> 00:59:45,405 Uh, it's, I think, really helpful for people to hear 1153 00:59:46,275 --> 00:59:48,485 that someone else has been through it and, 1154 00:59:49,065 --> 00:59:51,685 and maybe can help inspire someone to stand up 1155 00:59:51,685 --> 00:59:52,885 for themselves that much more. 1156 00:59:53,155 --> 00:59:54,845 - Yeah. Thank you. There's one other thing 1157 00:59:54,845 --> 00:59:56,925 that's super important for me also, 1158 00:59:56,925 --> 00:59:58,285 when people are on this journey 1159 00:59:58,425 --> 01:00:03,415 and not on this journey, forgiveness, self-forgiveness 1160 01:00:03,755 --> 01:00:05,375 and forgiveness of others. 1161 01:00:07,205 --> 01:00:09,745 Uh, it's also part of a self-advocacy 1162 01:00:10,015 --> 01:00:14,065 because we need, as, as much as we need to 1163 01:00:14,635 --> 01:00:17,185 being integrity, you know, with ourselves 1164 01:00:17,325 --> 01:00:20,425 and present ourselves with, in, in the world, with the, 1165 01:00:20,445 --> 01:00:21,625 you know, all medical things 1166 01:00:21,645 --> 01:00:25,755 or anything else we need to advocate for, we need 1167 01:00:25,755 --> 01:00:28,755 to also advocate for our own mental health 1168 01:00:29,495 --> 01:00:31,635 and our own emotional health. 1169 01:00:32,535 --> 01:00:34,235 And that's by letting go 1170 01:00:35,885 --> 01:00:39,875 doing whatever is needed to let go of holding on 1171 01:00:40,495 --> 01:00:45,315 to angers and pains and judgements and resentments 1172 01:00:45,415 --> 01:00:47,875 and guilts and shames and all that. 1173 01:00:49,055 --> 01:00:51,795 It, it is also part of the self-advocacy, 1174 01:00:51,795 --> 01:00:55,315 but that's the self-advocacy with self, with letting go 1175 01:00:55,315 --> 01:00:58,515 of whatever habits there are, you know, 1176 01:00:58,515 --> 01:01:00,475 that we haven't cleaned up with ourselves. 1177 01:01:01,995 --> 01:01:05,045 - Yeah. Well said. Absolutely. Thank you. 1178 01:01:05,335 --> 01:01:06,525 Thank you so much for being 1179 01:01:06,525 --> 01:01:07,525 - Here. 1180 01:01:07,525 --> 01:01:08,245 Yeah, thank you so much, Susan. 1181 01:01:08,395 --> 01:01:09,485 It's really been a delight 1182 01:01:09,545 --> 01:01:13,045 and I'm so, um, happy to have met you 1183 01:01:13,385 --> 01:01:14,805 and spent some time with you. 1184 01:01:14,825 --> 01:01:16,245 You're so delightful. 1185 01:01:16,945 --> 01:01:19,965 - Oh, thanks. Thank you for listening, everybody. Bye. 1186 01:01:20,355 --> 01:01:21,725 Take care. Bye. Okay, 1187 01:01:21,825 --> 01:01:22,825 - Bye. 1188 01:01:23,735 --> 01:01:25,445 - Great review and subscribe to, Hey, 1189 01:01:25,445 --> 01:01:27,565 human Podcast on iTunes, Spotify, 1190 01:01:27,905 --> 01:01:29,205 iHeart, wherever you get your podcast. 1191 01:01:29,745 --> 01:01:30,965 Thanks. Bye.