- Hey, humans.
How's it going? Susan Ruth here.
Thanks for listening to another episode
of Hey Human Podcast.
This is episode 392, and my guest is Iqbal Kana.
Iqbal was born in Kashmere, India.
He has led an incredible adventurous life
from a childhood hiking with the Tenzing Norge,
to working in Col Keto with Mother Teresa
to running a successful climbing
and hiking company in India,
and then becoming a masterful licensed massage therapist,
studying with the greatest that there are in spiritual
and massage worlds.
And he's a really delightful
and kind man who sees the world as beautiful
and deeply empathic.
And again,
from a really spiritual place he's operating on
all cylinders, for sure.
We had a lovely chat during a break, uh, during his workday.
You'll hear some sounds in the background,
some voices and such.
'cause he's, he's there at his, his place of business at
what a really cool dude.
Um, so happy I got to speak with him.
And he's just happy, happy guy. .
I mean, I can't even imagine three months with Mother Teresa
that would, I feel
change you deeply at the root of who a person is to, to be
around that kind of energy and that kind of person.
And honestly, I feel like Al is that kind of person.
He radiates something
and it's not otherworldly, it's grounded,
but just really beautiful.
Really, really beautiful.
Okay, well check out hey human podcast.com for links
and to learn more about my guests
and the show, check out Susan ruth.com to learn about me
and my other artistic endeavors,
of which there seems to be way too many right now.
Uh, please follow Susan Ruth
and hey, human podcast on social media
and find my music on Spotify, apple music, Amazon music,
wherever you get your music rate.
Review and subscribe to, Hey, human podcast on iTunes
or wherever you get your podcasts.
And thank you for listening
and thank you for sharing, uh, the stories
and for being a part of this show.
I really appreciate it. Be well, be kind, be love.
And here we go,
- Big - Bana.
Welcome to Hey, human.
- Thanks. - It's so nice to see you.
- Same to you dear. - Welcome.
Let's get into it right away.
Tell me where you're from and where you grew up.
- I grew up in Kashmir, north of India,
and I came to us in 1982
and I have a business
before I came to us, I used
to take people hiking up in the Himalayas
and all my trips were anywhere from one week
to three weeks hiking up to 16, 15, 17,000 feet.
And most of the groups were like anywhere from two
people to 15 people.
We bring almost, uh, we have 10 people,
we have 50 horses with us.
And then, uh, all the food,
everything is carried on the horses.
And if we have somebody
who is older, we put them on the horse.
And that, those kind of trips we did.
Uh, then I did also a medical trips from Buffalo
Children's Hospital in New York.
And we did, every year we had a group
of 20 doctors and nurses.
We did a research in Kir and also in Laak.
But we did, we studied with, we go, we go, we,
we land in Laak, which is 11,000 feet, the airport.
And we stayed there until they Alize.
And then next day we start walking up the trails.
And it took us four days to three days to get the villages
where we do the research.
And we, there are mostly people there.
They, they go to the hospital, so knew what takes them two
to three days to walk to get the main road.
There's no road. We found out in, uh,
before there were a lot of kids dying on childbirth.
A friend of mine who was a Dr. Lee who was the head
of the Children's Hospital of Buffalo, New York.
We organized a group of doctors and nurses
and we went there
and we saw it was very easy problem to solve.
One of the villages we saw there was a midwife
when they were giving the birth, the kids were giving birth
and the sheep live under the bottom of the house
and people live up on the house
and the water, they never boiled the water when the kids
were drinking water or anything.
And they were having diarrheas
and they were dying very young age.
And then another problem we found out the midwife was when
she was cutting their cord,
she used same blade for everything.
She washed it, but it was not centralized.
And when we taught them
and everything, then four years later we went back.
The whole village had changed.
The kids had not died that much. And it was really amazing.
And then we did the same thing with the different villages
where amchis,
the medicine men in these mountains make their own
herbs from their ground.
Everywhere they grow, we watch what they were doing.
They were not aids, there was nothing.
We had all the with us. We checked everything.
They were a lot more healthier than we were.
And then we did like 50 people, our medicine, us medicine,
and then their theirs.
Then we went two years back,
their medicine worked much better than our medicine.
And it was really shocking.
But we start doing that almost, we still do it,
but we slowed down because of the Corona.
And every year we went different villages.
And that's what we did.
And uh, even actually it was written even in National
Geographic, what we did.
And then one of the villages we went,
it was a border close to China.
It was only 11 miles from the China.
We had to, we took us hard time
to get a permission from the Indian government
and the Army and all that.
But finally we got, it took a couple of months
and we had heard there were also children dying.
Children dying there. And we figured it out,
why are they dying like 10 years or five years before?
There were no dating going on, no horses,
no animals going on this land.
And they, the garment had
given the done a favor, build a well.
And they were drinking same water.
The well was not that deep. It was only 25 feet.
It has to be 60 feet.
And they were having diarrhea and everything.
They were dying. And then we said, okay, what can we do?
And we had some local doctors with us.
We figured it out, okay, there is a nunnery up in the hill.
We checked it out. They had a well there, they,
they had really a spring.
We said, nobody is sick in the, in the nunnery.
And we said, okay, what are we going to do?
We checked it out,
everything toxic, talks to the government.
Next year we went back to us, we raised some money
and we put up, we put up pipes from the, from the spring
to the village and we gave them the water.
Whole village. Then we went back another two years.
Nobody had died. Clean
- Water is everything.
- That's what we were doing.
And it was really amazing how much people, you know,
how many people we saved.
- Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your childhood
growing up in Kir.
What was that like? When
- I grew up, and it was very hard because we had no tv.
We had no nothing, no phones, nothing.
If somebody had a TV, radio, he was, we were going
to watch something or listen something like a, any, any kind
of a game on the, on these, uh, you know, uh, radios.
And if you were radio, you were, you were well off.
And that time I was probably around, maybe, you know,
12, 18.
And we used to go to school and you had no need.
Like if you had a pair of shots, one pair of shoes,
you are, you are fine.
That's those kind of a life. And I live in the boat.
I was born in a boat, the houseboat,
and my whole family was living in the boat.
And we were my grandparents
and everybody, they were living in the houseboats.
Every winter we, it will freeze. The lake will freeze.
Will, we had to go across the lake to go to the market.
We walk on the ice on the lake.
It was, but it, life was much better than, that's now.
When I worked my first job, I was going
to school in the morning, and then evening I was working in
the hotel for a month.
I was getting $3 paid for a month,
- $3, - $3 a month.
That was a lot. $3 was lot.
I was really always outdoors person.
I always like hiking, walking and everything.
Then I had met one of the American
and he said, Hey, you know, I took him hiking, you know,
like I didn't charge him
or anything, you know, it like, just a friendship.
And he, he, he really liked me.
He said, you know what, what we,
oh, start opening a business.
I'll bring some people from us and I'll pay you this much
and we'll start business.
And that's what we did.
And then, uh, then he actually,
after I started making some money,
and he liked me, I was very honest from day one, I told him,
Hey, and he will send me maybe 15, 20 people, uh,
in, in a year.
But it was now money for me, more than enough money for me
to buy another, you know, house for my family
and you know, give them a better life.
And that's what he did. Because I never drink,
never waste any money.
That's how I was. And things getting better.
Then he said, Hey, why did you come?
I visit to us, I'll give you a ticket.
I said, Hey, no, I don't think my,
I'm the oldest in the family.
I don't think I can come. And then finally he just said,
okay, I'll, I'll, I'll pay for everything.
And he paid. And I got to first I landed in New York
and I was shocked to see how things are expensive,
these tall buildings.
And then he took me out in the restaurant at the evening
and there was a food left.
After we ate dinner, he said them, Hey, doggy bag.
I said, you don't have a dog.
And he says, we don't waste the food here.
And then in the morning I woke up
and I see they gave me the same food in the breakfast.
I said, this is crazy.
India is four, but I live in, I came to America.
They're more, what is this?
I was very confused,
but I was shocked to see the, the buildings
and all, you know, how people live,
how many people are in New York, was shocking.
My family wanted me to come back. I said, I'm coming.
And finally I stayed a while in New York.
And then I went back to India
and it was totally different.
And it, I then I start, you know, business start.
I opened my own own company,
but he was still sending me a people.
- How many siblings did you grow up with?
- We were five, three, uh, two si, three,
two sisters, three brothers.
And then when I had got made some money,
I bought a land about seven miles from the home.
And then I built a house and move everybody in the house.
Now we still have the houseboats and have the house.
And everybody is living in the same house.
My mother, my brothers, their wives, their kids,
we all live in the same house.
I, my goal was to keep all the family together.
And that was one, one of my, you know, journey. What I did.
Then I met with Tanzi Norge
and my friend, uh, actually he was a relay to,
he was also very, very big hiker.
Then there was another guy whose name was Bob ings.
He's from Potent, actually believe.
He has written a birds book of birds of Nepal and ing.
And he came to Kashmir to do the hiking in Nan Kon, the,
the Mountain, which is 23,000.
And I was there too.
I went with them and my boss was with me.
We did a climb down and ,
he was really very quiet and very, very humble person.
You know, he was really more like a, you know,
he was not like proud
or anything, you know, he was more, you know,
his manners were really great.
And he was great to talk to him
and watch him what, how he did it
and listen to him, how he did it and what happened.
And 'cause everybody said it was Edmund Hillary.
He went first, but what he did, it was him
because he was the sheriff
and they thought if he die first, that's okay.
He was the one who was putting the ropes and everything.
But in the books, if you see they say it was Edmund Hillary.
And I met also Edmund Hillary too. He came to Kir.
I met him too. He was, he was very, you know, more like a,
you know, British, British type, you know, very tall
and very, you know, because Kir was known mostly.
We used to have a lot of British tourists, English,
but now, you know, people are coming
from all over the world.
But things have changed now a lot
because things have gotten expensive, more modern.
Everybody has TVs, everybody has cars.
When I grow up, if you had a bike,
oh God, you are a rich person.
But now those days were really nice,
but things have changed a lot now,
- Did in later years.
Did he acknowledge that 10 Zg was first?
- Nobody. No. He never did it. No.
But we know who did it
because you had to put the ropes up, you know, who did it.
And that's, that's how it is always.
- Yeah. And that's, - That's how we, we know that.
- Can you tell a story from hiking
where you were worried for your safety?
- My priority was always safety.
I always had a group of four to five people who I trusted.
And when we hike, we hike. Like we had a 15 day hike.
I always had horses with us in case somebody broke a leg
or somebody, it happened once we had,
it was a medical group.
One of the doctors, he was from actually Scotland,
he came in the group.
He had come twice in the same group.
Same group, but different hike.
And this time he came, we got a problem with altitude
and we had to, we said it take us three days
how we can carry him back.
We tied him in the horses
and brought him back to 11,000 feet
because this time we were on 14 and we brought him to 11
and took him to hospital.
And he was there three, four days.
And then finally, uh, they said he cannot fly until his
oxygen level goes better.
And then once his oxygen level went better
and we could not make him fly, and we drove him back to eg.
We took two days by car
and then we sent him back to Scotland.
And he's, he, he still is sick.
He cannot go after the mountains,
but he's still, he's okay. What's
- The highest you've ever been?
- I've been to 23,000. - What's it like to be that high up
- Being a god ?
It was amazing. There's not a anything there, you know,
it was just glacier and the peaks.
Wow. That's what it was. It was amazing.
- Would you, were you considered a Sherpa
or were you considered a trail guide? What was your title?
- Uh, operator on, operator on his, on, on this side
who was handling everything.
But in Nepal there are Sherpa,
but in Kashmir they call the, the leader.
And that's whose responsibility is for the giving.
The, the tens, the food, the, you know,
all the arrangements of the people.
And that's, that's what they call them there.
- That's a lot of responsibility.
- It's a challenge too.
And I love the mountains and I love the love the nature.
And these, uh, these hikes, we go for eight,
seven days, 10 days.
They have high altitude lakes.
And when the, the British old days, they, they stock them
with a fish, the trout.
And it was, it was also one, one thing for,
I was looking forward to go fishing there too,
while I was working with the tourists.
And that's, that was a, those were the things we did.
- And nobody ever passed away on the hikes.
- I have not had anybody passed away and never,
but people did, you know, twist the ankle or those things,
or broke the arm, fell down, you know, something.
But nobody, nobody died,
- I would imagine.
More than anything, it's the altitude that gets people
- Usually, uh, what I do with Kashmir is about, uh,
you know, 6,000 feet.
We, first nights we stay about 7,000, then we go 8,000.
We don't want to take them at a time so
that they don't get the headaches.
- Have you ever been to Everest?
- I have. I have no need to go to Everest, you know,
'cause it's becoming now like a, like a downtown Portland,
because everybody wants to go.
And I was watching the documentary, every time they go
with the oxygen, everything, they never bring it back.
It's, uh, like couple of years ago, there was a world,
uh, organation.
They took maybe a couple of hundred Sherpa to bring the,
all the garbage back.
And it was amazing to see how many tons
of garbage they brought back.
And that was a sad thing to,
- That's very sad.
- It was very sad, you know, not to protect.
That's one of the things, I think all the, you know,
the climate and everything, that's because we're abusing it.
That's, that's the problem.
I go in Portland, I go out, even if I have to go,
go a good hike, I just leave at two o'clock in the morning
and I go to Mount Hood
and I'm back at seven o'clock down to the
down, you know, down it's, uh, 12,000 feet.
And a lot of people die in Montour
because they don't respect the mountain
and they have lost the, you know, the fog or something.
Or they start late, the snow melts
and they get tired and all that.
They lose their, you know, they're way back.
That has happened a lot.
- You make a good point about respecting mother nature
and what she is capable of.
- Yeah, if you keep it clean, you know, you have to,
the environment is everything is, you know,
I remember soon the plastic is come more, you know,
everybody is plastic
and if it is a paper, it, you know, it can, you know,
it can just go, you know, waste or something.
But the plastic,
it takes you a hundred years to go, you know?
It cannot, it doesn't, you know, go anywhere.
That's the big problem, you know,
I think in everywhere those, but I, all my stuff I train.
I said, you know, I'll pay you more.
But as long there is no, I, I checked
before my camp left, closed, left,
there should not be a garbage.
There should be a anything.
That was one of my, my goals whenever I went hiking.
- And how old are you - Right now? Right now I'm 71.
- And you still do these hikes?
- I still do it. I still do it. . I love it.
I can still, I can still go, you know, running and anything.
It doesn't bother me. But my hobby is
mostly fishing and hiking.
I do a lot of fly fishing.
- Oh, oh, nice. I used to do that
with my dad when I was little.
- Well, you gotta come to Portland in May,
June is a good time to come.
- I love that. Tell me the story of Mother Teresa.
- Mother Teresa was, was a very lucky moment for me.
I was, I always wanted to meet her.
I had read about her and heard the stories,
and I had a group of women, uh, from the State department,
women high Power.
There was a Donna Lela who was, who was the head
of the Health and Human Service.
And there was, uh, she was also a congresswoman for Miami.
And she was first a, uh, hunter resident of Hunter College
and University of Wisconsin.
And then there was LS
who was the head of the budget.
And then there was, uh, Betsy Livings,
who was the first woman dean
of law school in Boulder, Colorado.
These were the 10, 12 women.
They came every year to hike with me up in the Himalayas.
They came every year, did the different trips,
and we were doing hiking in Kashmir.
And then after our trip, we went to tour
to India, not India.
And, uh, we stayed in the hotel after our tour.
They saw the Taj Mall and all that.
Then we stayed in the hotel.
It was the last day we had a flight to go that evening
and morning I was at lunchtime, I got out and,
but I had read about Mother Teresa
and I said, I know she's in this town,
but I don't know how far TTA is.
Very big city. And I asked the bellboy at the hotel,
he says, you see a white building, that's who she,
that's the house she's living in.
And then I walk, I had shorts on and a t-shirt, you know,
and I walk, it took me maybe five minutes, six minutes.
And then when I got there, I saw this woman there
sitting down changing her diaper of the kid.
And I said, I don't think she is the one,
she will not change the diaper.
But then I had seen the picture and everything.
It was a white, sorry, it had a food everywhere.
She didn't care. The gray hair everywhere, plastic shoes,
arthritis in the hands, sun nuns came.
They said, mother, we'll do it. She said, no, I'm okay.
Let me do it. And she, after that,
and I, I just said, I said, I,
I wanna donate some, you know, something.
She was telling to it
after she changed her diaper and everything.
And I just came
and then she asked me, where do I live and all that.
And I said, I live in Miami and all that.
She says, after that, she says, you're not going anywhere.
And I said, what is this movie to stay? I have to go home.
I have my family and all that. And then, okay, I stay.
And I didn't know what to do.
And, but I was always interested learning stuff, you know,
it was amazing to see what, you know, I had heard about her.
I read about her and then it was amazing
to see what she was doing.
I said, God, this is a great place.
You know, because my grandmother, it remind me
my grandmother worked, you know,
like her and my grandmother.
I over, you know, close to a hundred.
And then I stayed and I worked there.
My, I said, what's my job?
I thought, okay, I'll work in the kitchen.
I do all whatever it is. And I was doing everything there.
And then I saw her, these kids crying
and she rubs their backs and does all that.
And what it, how, how it calms these kids down.
And it was really amazing to see what she could do.
And, uh, then always she even, she could have done,
she could have watched it and let the nuns do it.
No, she wanted to do it herself.
And it was really amazing to see, you know,
it changed all my life
because in Miami, I wanted to be a paramedic.
I work only six months in India,
but Miami, I was doing a lot of work.
And then I said this, this will help me.
And then when I got, when I left,
after 300 months, I told her, she says,
you gotta work in Miami.
I have something to you. You're gonna help them.
She said, I don't need your money and I have money.
They need your help. That's how word she said it.
And I went to Homestead.
There were almost 10 nuns who were working with migrants,
helping them out.
I did, I worked with them and,
and I was driving like maybe 10 miles a
day and then work with them.
And then I was very interested is helping people
because the way God helped me, I wanted to help people.
Then there was study done in University
of Miami touched for research.
And I said, God, this is good.
I got, I got a couple of months, let me do it.
And I studied that.
Then I start, I worked in Miami with abuse
and depressed mothers.
Most of the mothers were under, under 18 with the babies.
- So this was doing energy work and massage.
- Oh yeah. Energy work with these women to make them,
you know, change that because they were all abused
and de depressed and all that.
And work with them almost six months.
And then I did another study.
It was same done in, uh, the hospital in Miami, in Jackson.
I did that. And it, it was really, I even got,
there was one sec, one mother, she was 17, had three kids.
I almost end up adopting the one kid.
And I said, oh my god, can I do this?
And I could not do it.
The kid was got too attached to me and it was hard to let go
- In massage therapy, there's a lot of energy that's going
around during that.
What is your experience when you go in with a client?
How do you, how do you take on that energy
and not take it on all at the same time?
- What it is? One thing I learned my 38 years, uh,
working in this, it's not the massage, it's the energy.
And also if you have a problem in home,
never bring in, uh, in that room. Leave it outside
- As a therapist. You mean
- As a therapist.
Leave it outside. Doesn't matter what kind
of therapist you are, leave all your problems out
because people can feel the energy
elicited the body and the touch,
the touch is more than a touch.
What touch can do is the medicine cannot do that.
The touch has that much power.
And God has given me a gift.
So far I've seen over 13,000 people.
- Wow. - I have never had any problems.
And now it's becoming a more, not my big priority, the money
to helping the people.
Even, even a lot of my people, I said,
if you don't have money, you don't need to pay me.
You can come.
- Do you think that humans are starved for human touch?
- They are. Very much so.
Because, because the culture we live here,
it's very different.
It's a very different culture than like we have,
like if I go home, my mother, you know, I'll sleep
with my mother here.
They cannot do that. My mother was not feeling well.
I slept with her all three weeks when I was in
India before I came.
And those kind of a things, you know, are very, it was it
what it gave me, you know, it gave me a peace.
I wanted to pay her back some somehow.
But, you know, that's, those kind
of a things are really, really powerful.
That's what I learned on my, on my work.
- Work and Mother Teresa's.
Uh, the fact that she, her belief system was
that touch really helped these children.
Is that where that planted the seed for you?
- That was amazing what she could do when I, she said,
don't, don't see what people give you.
See what you can give them.
That was the amazing thing, what I learned.
But yeah, I learned a lot from her and I thank her for that.
And I'm in a really, a great place where I learned from her.
I don't know, I could have, you know, I could have been
that, you know anybody,
but I, I got a chance, you know, it was meant
to be. It was the right time.
- I'm sure she saw something in you.
- She did thought something
because usually people came with truckloads
of rice, truckloads of sugar.
She never even talked to them.
She said, just leave it there.
She saw something, you know, what made her, no,
this guy is real.
He's not, you know. Then we did talk about my grandmother,
you know, how I raised and all that.
Where I am, where I was, you know, I remember always,
you know how people, no matter what,
what it is, it's not the money.
If you can, somebody falls, pick them up.
It's not, you know, you're not give, you just help them up.
That's mm-hmm, , you know, I them a water.
Don't, and don't ask the questions.
If you can give, don't ask the questions.
I learn a lot from her. And that's what is, that's what I,
that's what keeps me going.
And that's what, that's
where I am right now doing on my work.
- What do you think about God?
What are your thoughts on faith and God and spirituality?
- There's only one God. He's everywhere.
You know, we all, we all,
when we came, we came from nothing.
And we, when we go, we go back for nothing.
There's nothing we take back.
We don't take back cars, houses, nothing. Now.
If we remember, remember every day,
that would be a really a great people.
But we don't remember that. We think, oh, I have a red car.
I drive fast. I do speed.
No, remember, we all have to go in the same place.
Whether you are rich, poor,
you are in the same place no matter what you are.
This place is just, you know, just a dream.
It's not the real, you know, real is
what you have when you die.
That's, that's what I, you know, always
think about it myself.
Whatever you give, you get, you know, back
and all those things I do believe in.
That's what has also, you know, kept me, you know,
whatever I am now, today, my plans are
probably helping people as much I can
and give, teach some people what I have
and give them what I have.
You know, even whether they're my clients
or they're my coworkers, explain them, Hey, you know,
do what you can do here.
In the end, it will pay you back.
If not here in end, God will give you back. And that's my
- Story.
Do you get to see your family much back in India? I
- Go back every two, three times a year
because I'm very close to my family.
I'm the oldest one and anything happens
there, I have to make a decision.
Even from here, they cannot make it.
And that's, that's, that's what it is.
That's the rule where the parents, nowadays,
people separate, do all that.
But I try to keep all my family together.
That's, that's my goal.
Until, you know, they can, until I can, that's how,
that's how I live.
- When you look back on your life,
which in my opinion is extraordinary, you've had so many
incredible adventures and met fascinating people.
I mean, that must, when you look back,
you must scratch your head
and think, what, what was all that?
- Sometime I know when I go fishing,
I know I sit on the river.
I think, okay, what was I,
what would have I been, what would have happened?
It, it comes to me,
but then I say, you know what it was meant to be, you know,
that's what God send me here to do.
You know, that's what I have to do.
You know, protect the river, protect the mountains.
That's what, and even here, sometime I go fishing,
I find a paper or I find anything.
I just put it in my pocket and take it back. I still do it.
You know? It's really, really, that's, that's,
that has not gone away.
That's always with me. Even in home, I pay kids.
When I go back, I pay the kids to clean all
around the houses and everything.
When I go home, if there's any
garbage, they know I'm coming.
When I come, it's spotless.
They know he's gonna be, he will not be happy.
And I teach all my family related to everything.
I said, you know, if you keep it clean, even the dog,
the dog sets, he cleans first, you know?
And I tell them same thing.
I said, you know, I make them guilty,
but they do keep it clean as much as you know, they can.
- Whenever I see litter, it makes me crazy.
It seems the ultimate form, the ultimate sign
of disrespect is when people litter
- Because God gave you this, all this, this beauty.
You have to protect it.
You cannot destroy it, you know, let others enjoy it too.
That's, that's my goal. It's
- Beautiful.
Thank you so much for,
for telling your story. It's really lovely.
- Thank you. - .
Tell people how they can find you. Oh,
- They can find me.
My, you know, my name and , they can go on that.
I, or my, you know, my email, whatever they want.
- You're the best. - Thank you dear. Love you. Love
- You too.
Thank you so much and thank you for listening everybody
- Keep in touch.
- , I'll, okay, dear. Bye-Bye.
- Bye dear. - Great.
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