1 00:00:08,145 --> 00:00:10,685 Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. 2 00:00:10,985 --> 00:00:14,405 Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey Human Podcast. 3 00:00:15,795 --> 00:00:20,485 This is episode 386, and I had a conversation with Nick Butta. 4 00:00:20,955 --> 00:00:23,965 Nick is a producer and drummer in Nashville, Tennessee. 5 00:00:24,465 --> 00:00:27,725 He was born in South Africa, but came to the US as a kid. 6 00:00:28,265 --> 00:00:32,845 He tours with Kenny Chesney and has worked with dozens and dozens of artists, 7 00:00:32,845 --> 00:00:37,565 including Mega Stars, Taylor Swift, Dolly Parton, Lionel Richie, 8 00:00:37,565 --> 00:00:40,885 and Martina McBride, but so many more. Oh my gosh, his, 9 00:00:40,945 --> 00:00:45,405 the list goes on and on and on. We talked about his childhood, his career, 10 00:00:46,305 --> 00:00:51,125 family, his connection to the creator of Marvels, Thanos, and so much more. 11 00:00:51,195 --> 00:00:53,125 Nick and I have been friends for a really long time, 12 00:00:53,225 --> 00:00:57,445 and I'm so happy we finally were able to be in the same place at the same time. 13 00:00:58,265 --> 00:01:02,085 We connected at a gig in Denver and met up at the hotel, 14 00:01:02,265 --> 00:01:07,045 and we recorded this on an iPhone. Shout out iPhone . Uh, 15 00:01:07,145 --> 00:01:11,045 here's Hope in the Swifties will hear this episode and share it far and wide. 16 00:01:11,545 --> 00:01:16,245 In other news, I am playing this Saturday in Santa Monica, 17 00:01:16,335 --> 00:01:19,285 California. If anybody is in the vicinity of that, 18 00:01:19,955 --> 00:01:24,485 I'll be playing the Crow 8:00 PM I have an opening set for the comedy 19 00:01:24,675 --> 00:01:27,205 show that night, so that'll be a lot of fun. 20 00:01:27,395 --> 00:01:31,885 Dusting off the guitar and doing a little live set. Come on down if you want to. 21 00:01:31,985 --> 00:01:35,845 At the Crow, it's in Berger, Vermont Station. All right, 22 00:01:35,845 --> 00:01:38,325 check out hey human podcast.com for links. 23 00:01:38,325 --> 00:01:42,845 And to learn more about my guests in the show, check out Susan ruth.com. 24 00:01:42,865 --> 00:01:47,365 To learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, follow Susan Ruth. 25 00:01:47,585 --> 00:01:51,405 And hey, human podcast on social media. Find my albums on Spotify, 26 00:01:51,855 --> 00:01:55,045 apple Music, Amazon music, or wherever you get your music. 27 00:01:55,665 --> 00:01:59,325 My last record is All I Ever Wanted was everything. 28 00:01:59,625 --> 00:02:03,525 You could find it everywhere. Rate review and subscribe to, Hey, 29 00:02:03,525 --> 00:02:07,965 human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. 30 00:02:08,465 --> 00:02:13,045 And thank you for listening. Be well, be kind, be love. 31 00:02:13,635 --> 00:02:14,468 Here we go. 32 00:02:16,115 --> 00:02:18,405 Nick Buto up. Come to, Hey, human. 33 00:02:18,515 --> 00:02:21,285 Alright. Happy to be a part of, Hey human. This. 34 00:02:21,285 --> 00:02:24,845 Is cool. We've talked about this for a while. Yeah. Yeah. So here you are. 35 00:02:24,915 --> 00:02:26,845 Here I am. Yeah. On the road again. 36 00:02:27,165 --> 00:02:30,325 I like, I like that we're doing it in person. Yeah, that is good. There's been, 37 00:02:30,325 --> 00:02:33,845 there's been a lot of Zoom, uh, type interviews and it's works too, 38 00:02:33,905 --> 00:02:35,285 but it's nice in person. Do you. 39 00:02:35,285 --> 00:02:36,118 Get interviewed a lot? 40 00:02:36,545 --> 00:02:39,925 Uh, I mean, not a lot, but it, it happens. It happens. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 41 00:02:40,025 --> 00:02:44,485 Mostly music stuff though. Different types of either drummer or music. 42 00:02:44,485 --> 00:02:47,245 Obviously music related, but mostly drummer focused, 43 00:02:48,655 --> 00:02:50,365 which that's that thing. 44 00:02:50,425 --> 00:02:54,725 I'm psyched to be doing one that's not as focused on drums. More human. 45 00:02:54,725 --> 00:02:55,558 That's right. Yeah. 46 00:02:55,605 --> 00:02:58,525 Although we will cover drums. Yeah. Yeah, sure. We'll get a beat on that. Ah, 47 00:02:58,645 --> 00:02:59,245 I see what I did. 48 00:02:59,245 --> 00:03:00,925 There. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 49 00:03:01,265 --> 00:03:04,165 I'm like a good drum pun . Let's go back to the beginning. 50 00:03:04,165 --> 00:03:04,998 Where are you from? 51 00:03:05,405 --> 00:03:10,085 I was born in Cape Town in South Africa, and, uh, lived there till I was, uh, 52 00:03:10,225 --> 00:03:11,325 uh, 12 and a half or so. 53 00:03:11,905 --> 00:03:14,005 And how was life growing up in South Africa. 54 00:03:14,545 --> 00:03:18,765 In the time without, you know, me knowing anymore, 55 00:03:18,905 --> 00:03:19,738 it was great. 56 00:03:19,945 --> 00:03:24,165 We had a beautiful place on the side of a mountain. 57 00:03:24,165 --> 00:03:26,965 Cape Town's absolutely beautiful, so, you know, but the, 58 00:03:26,985 --> 00:03:30,005 the views over the ocean were obviously taken for granted. 59 00:03:30,165 --> 00:03:31,285 'cause that's all I ever knew. You know, 60 00:03:31,325 --> 00:03:34,005 I was zipping down to the beach and playing with the dogs in the sand, 61 00:03:34,065 --> 00:03:37,485 and not just like the beach, but the, some of the most beautiful beaches. 62 00:03:37,565 --> 00:03:40,525 I mean, just incredible. My grandmother lived on the other side of the mountain, 63 00:03:40,585 --> 00:03:44,085 so, um, my mom was a, uh, in the sort of fashion design world, 64 00:03:44,085 --> 00:03:46,725 she was a buyer for a, um, sort of a, let's say, 65 00:03:46,725 --> 00:03:51,205 a gap style clothing store in South Africa. And, um, 66 00:03:51,305 --> 00:03:55,325 so my grandmother would pick me up from school and I'd go and hang with her for 67 00:03:55,325 --> 00:03:58,645 the afternoons. We'd play cards, we'd have tea time at four o'clock, you know, 68 00:03:58,645 --> 00:03:59,725 it was, you know, all the stuff. 69 00:03:59,945 --> 00:04:03,885 And then my mom would pick me up at five or five 30 and we'd go around to the 70 00:04:03,885 --> 00:04:05,165 other side of the mountain to where we lived. 71 00:04:05,545 --> 00:04:08,685 Do you have siblings? No. Okay. Only child. Yeah. 72 00:04:09,235 --> 00:04:11,885 What was apartheid still a. 73 00:04:11,885 --> 00:04:14,125 Big deal apart around you? Was very much a big deal. Yeah. 74 00:04:14,525 --> 00:04:19,485 I didn't know so much about it as a kid. My mom, uh, is still very political, 75 00:04:19,485 --> 00:04:23,365 but at the time I was very anti-everything that was going on over there. Um, 76 00:04:24,385 --> 00:04:25,055 the, um, 77 00:04:25,055 --> 00:04:30,045 oppression of the black and colored community in a 78 00:04:30,515 --> 00:04:34,805 country where they were, by far the majority was terrible and disgusting. And, 79 00:04:34,905 --> 00:04:39,005 and it was ultimately the reason why we left. But as a kid, I didn't, I didn't, 80 00:04:39,085 --> 00:04:41,765 I wasn't so aware of that. It's not like I'm, 81 00:04:42,045 --> 00:04:45,965 I don't know that I was necessarily around a lot of 82 00:04:47,375 --> 00:04:52,085 black or mixed scenarios, so to say, but it's, but it wasn't something, 83 00:04:52,565 --> 00:04:56,045 I didn't find it unusual either. I think a lot of, anyway, I, yeah, 84 00:04:56,045 --> 00:04:56,765 I don't know about all that, 85 00:04:56,765 --> 00:05:01,645 but I do know that there were days that we would not go to school, 86 00:05:01,675 --> 00:05:04,285 like school would be closed because it was, 87 00:05:04,625 --> 00:05:06,805 and I would just be happy school was closed. But it was, 88 00:05:06,805 --> 00:05:09,605 because it would be like, let's say the anniversary of a, 89 00:05:09,925 --> 00:05:14,205 a black leader that had been guild and they were concerned about marches and 90 00:05:14,205 --> 00:05:15,685 potential violence and things like that. 91 00:05:15,785 --> 00:05:18,565 So they would just not have school that day. 92 00:05:18,865 --> 00:05:19,925 Was school segregated? 93 00:05:20,395 --> 00:05:22,205 Some schools were definitely segregated. Um, 94 00:05:22,205 --> 00:05:25,765 the school I went to wasn't particularly, um, went to a Jewish school. Jewish, 95 00:05:26,105 --> 00:05:28,245 so I went to a Jewish school growing up in Cape Town. 96 00:05:28,785 --> 00:05:31,365 So there just weren't a lot of black people there. . Yeah. But, 97 00:05:31,985 --> 00:05:33,045 but it wasn't, I. 98 00:05:33,045 --> 00:05:34,605 Think I've known like three Jewish black people. 99 00:05:34,785 --> 00:05:35,845 That's right. . That's right. 100 00:05:35,845 --> 00:05:38,765 And in South Africa they probably weren't there. Yeah. Yeah. There was general, 101 00:05:39,135 --> 00:05:42,005 there wasn't like a, a strong divide segregation there, 102 00:05:42,185 --> 00:05:47,045 but there was a most definite, um, economic seg segregation where, you know, 103 00:05:47,045 --> 00:05:51,725 black kids weren't allowed to go to school a lot of times. Um, they would, or, 104 00:05:51,785 --> 00:05:54,365 or they were put in a position where they weren't able to. Yeah. 105 00:05:54,365 --> 00:05:56,365 Apartheid was a, a terrible thing, you know? 106 00:05:56,385 --> 00:06:00,365 And so once the biggest sanctions started coming down in South Africa because of 107 00:06:00,365 --> 00:06:03,125 apartheid from, uh, America and the rest of the world, 108 00:06:03,585 --> 00:06:06,125 the future was bleak for South Africa. There were a lot of, uh, 109 00:06:06,225 --> 00:06:09,365 big international companies that were pulling out and all that sort of stuff. 110 00:06:09,465 --> 00:06:12,245 And, um, took 'em long enough. Took 'em long enough. No, it's exactly right. 111 00:06:12,245 --> 00:06:13,085 It took a pressure, 112 00:06:13,235 --> 00:06:17,365 like the big pressure of everything before any one company actually bailed on 113 00:06:17,365 --> 00:06:21,005 it, and, you know what I mean? And at that time, everybody was leaving, um, 114 00:06:21,585 --> 00:06:24,205 and they were either going to Australia or England, which were a, 115 00:06:24,285 --> 00:06:29,205 a lot of times the easier places to move as far as, um, you know, 116 00:06:29,205 --> 00:06:30,645 being able to take your stuff. And actually, 117 00:06:30,965 --> 00:06:34,325 B like the United States A is very far, and B you know, 118 00:06:34,325 --> 00:06:36,925 everything's one 10 volt here as opposed to two 20. So like, 119 00:06:36,925 --> 00:06:39,325 you really were literally packing a bag and then starting again. 120 00:06:39,465 --> 00:06:40,298 And most people. 121 00:06:40,865 --> 00:06:43,125 Oh, that's weird. I wouldn't think about that. Yeah. Electricity. 122 00:06:43,125 --> 00:06:44,605 Is completely different. You're, you're not moving your house. 123 00:06:44,605 --> 00:06:47,965 You're literally like furniture maybe, but that's about it, you know? So, um, 124 00:06:48,345 --> 00:06:48,805 and that's. 125 00:06:48,805 --> 00:06:50,445 Just not worthwhile. You just get new stuff. 126 00:06:50,915 --> 00:06:53,965 Well, yeah, I mean, we actually ended up doing that. We mul we, 127 00:06:54,105 --> 00:06:57,965 we shipped our stuff over here when we moved, um, couches and tables and stuff, 128 00:06:58,105 --> 00:07:01,645 but even then, not very much. We sold off a lot of it because when we moved, 129 00:07:02,115 --> 00:07:03,365 everybody was trying to move. 130 00:07:03,595 --> 00:07:07,125 Most people were so sort of tied to a certain lifestyle that they had in 131 00:07:07,125 --> 00:07:10,525 South Africa. Of course, you had nannies help around, you know, 132 00:07:10,645 --> 00:07:15,605 that were mostly black because the wages were so inexpensive. 133 00:07:15,605 --> 00:07:20,085 Like, I mean, anybody could afford that. And so, you know, 134 00:07:20,085 --> 00:07:23,045 these families were all of a sudden moving to like, let's say England, 135 00:07:23,555 --> 00:07:26,725 that that help was now a lot more expensive, you know, as it should be. 136 00:07:26,725 --> 00:07:29,365 And a lot of, a lot of families just felt like, well, that's not worth it. 137 00:07:29,565 --> 00:07:32,845 I'll deal with apartheid and kind of turn the other cheek because I like having 138 00:07:32,905 --> 00:07:35,325 my lifestyle laundry done for me and my lifestyle, whatever. 139 00:07:35,525 --> 00:07:40,365 I mean, I think that's true of a lot of, uh, oppressive situations, right? 140 00:07:40,505 --> 00:07:44,365 Is that folks think, oh, okay, well, it's not really happening to me. 141 00:07:44,475 --> 00:07:45,645 It's happening around me, 142 00:07:45,645 --> 00:07:48,965 and I'm benefiting even if I don't believe these things. Yeah. 143 00:07:49,265 --> 00:07:53,085 I'm benefiting from other people's oppression, so Right. I'm gonna stick around. 144 00:07:53,705 --> 00:07:56,805 And I don't know, you know, I mean, I think that there's those views as, 145 00:07:56,865 --> 00:07:58,165 as well as views of like, well, 146 00:07:58,365 --> 00:08:00,885 I don't like the fact that this country that I love is, is, 147 00:08:00,975 --> 00:08:05,045 seems to be going over a cliff, so I'm gonna get out now. But then there's the, 148 00:08:05,705 --> 00:08:08,245 but it's really beautiful here and Yeah. You know, 149 00:08:08,245 --> 00:08:10,565 maybe I can just make it work. And, and literally, like, uh, 150 00:08:10,795 --> 00:08:14,645 most of the people I knew that had tried to leave around then within a year, 151 00:08:14,705 --> 00:08:15,765 six months to a year, they, 152 00:08:15,765 --> 00:08:18,725 they were back again because it was just easier to be back. 153 00:08:18,945 --> 00:08:20,605 And also change comes from within. 154 00:08:21,355 --> 00:08:22,105 Yeah. 155 00:08:22,105 --> 00:08:23,085 As well. Completely. 156 00:08:23,185 --> 00:08:28,085 So if everybody who wants to things to be better and to do better, 157 00:08:28,255 --> 00:08:31,245 leave who's left to do better and be better. 158 00:08:31,515 --> 00:08:34,085 Yeah. Well, there was that. I, I don't know. And now granted, 159 00:08:34,245 --> 00:08:36,565 I was too young at the time to really have a, a, 160 00:08:36,685 --> 00:08:38,765 a bigger concept about what was going on. Sure. But, 161 00:08:38,765 --> 00:08:40,605 but from what I have learned and looking back at it, 162 00:08:40,785 --> 00:08:45,125 it feels like there were those that said, I will not stand for this. 163 00:08:45,155 --> 00:08:48,005 This is not the, the country that I wanna live in, or the, 164 00:08:48,265 --> 00:08:52,045 the environment that I wanna be in. My mom was one of those, you know, I mean, 165 00:08:52,065 --> 00:08:54,765 we, it was a struggle to come to the States, um, 166 00:08:55,145 --> 00:08:59,085 and change our lifestyle a thousand percent, you know? 167 00:08:59,385 --> 00:09:01,845 But my mom was so, uh, 168 00:09:02,025 --> 00:09:05,645 she believed so strongly in what we were doing that there was just that we were 169 00:09:05,645 --> 00:09:08,085 not gonna be going back. There was just whatever happened, 170 00:09:08,265 --> 00:09:12,645 we weren't coming back, you know? Yeah. And, um, and, and I, I, 171 00:09:13,485 --> 00:09:16,845 I wish I could commend, there's not enough to commend her on, on that, 172 00:09:16,845 --> 00:09:18,845 because I know how, and again, 173 00:09:19,085 --> 00:09:21,765 I didn't necessarily understand at the time 'cause she hid a lot of it from me. 174 00:09:21,885 --> 00:09:25,685 I was, you know, that was when I was like 13, 14, those early years, whatever, 175 00:09:25,685 --> 00:09:30,325 teenage years. And I, I was pissed at a lot of the things I didn't get to do. 176 00:09:30,825 --> 00:09:34,405 But I, but not aware of why necessarily I couldn't. 177 00:09:34,785 --> 00:09:39,605 And also not aware of how difficult moving to a new 178 00:09:39,605 --> 00:09:43,125 place so far away from anything, you know, not, and everyone, yeah. 179 00:09:43,125 --> 00:09:47,205 And everyone, and the way that we moved to at the time, you know, 180 00:09:47,225 --> 00:09:51,045 in order to get a green card, that was like a six, seven year process, you know, 181 00:09:51,045 --> 00:09:55,005 and, and the, um, you know, the, it's even, I think it's even worse now, but, 182 00:09:55,345 --> 00:09:59,205 um, in those days, and, and my mom was not prepared to sit around and wait. 183 00:09:59,225 --> 00:10:03,885 And if I had turned 18 in the, in that era, if I had turned 18 in, 184 00:10:03,985 --> 00:10:05,645 in South Africa, I would've had to join the Army. 185 00:10:06,145 --> 00:10:08,205 And she was not gonna have that. I didn't. 186 00:10:08,205 --> 00:10:10,005 Know that South Africa is a required. 187 00:10:10,345 --> 00:10:13,165 It did, then it, I don't think it does anymore. Mm-Hmm. . Um. 188 00:10:13,445 --> 00:10:14,278 A lot of countries do. 189 00:10:14,315 --> 00:10:17,365 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Mm-Hmm. . So, yeah. So we just took off. Um. 190 00:10:17,465 --> 00:10:18,485 Did your grandmother go as. 191 00:10:18,485 --> 00:10:21,165 Well? No, my grandmother stayed in Cape Town. She had, 192 00:10:21,165 --> 00:10:24,045 obviously my mom's younger brother was still there, 193 00:10:24,265 --> 00:10:26,245 and other family cousins stuff was still there. 194 00:10:26,585 --> 00:10:28,325 And I think she felt too that like, 195 00:10:29,185 --> 00:10:31,605 she also very much disagreed with what was going on, 196 00:10:31,625 --> 00:10:36,605 but she was involved sort of in the , not in the fight, 197 00:10:36,665 --> 00:10:39,285 but like, in, in, in sort of like projects. 198 00:10:39,285 --> 00:10:43,005 She was a part of this group that raised money for schools, for black kids. 199 00:10:43,705 --> 00:10:46,645 And so she was, she was sort of a part of that. And her life was there, and, 200 00:10:46,645 --> 00:10:51,085 and yeah. She wasn't gonna move too much older. Yeah. And my dad actually, uh, 201 00:10:51,225 --> 00:10:53,805 my mom and dad split up when I was a very little kid. And, 202 00:10:54,065 --> 00:10:57,445 and so my dad also stayed, um, his life was there. I mean, 203 00:10:57,465 --> 00:10:59,565 his business was a lot more, um, 204 00:10:59,565 --> 00:11:03,045 internationally more international dealings. And, 205 00:11:03,065 --> 00:11:07,645 and Cape Town was more of his base than anything else. But, but so, 206 00:11:07,705 --> 00:11:09,685 so my dad was still there. My grandmother was still there. But. 207 00:11:09,685 --> 00:11:13,045 You referenced black people and colored people. When you say colored, 208 00:11:13,045 --> 00:11:15,885 you mean people of color or was that a delineation in South Africa? 209 00:11:16,145 --> 00:11:17,405 Is that something South African. 210 00:11:17,835 --> 00:11:22,365 Colored people are the what, when the white people came and, 211 00:11:23,185 --> 00:11:27,885 and got together with like, however, you know, it wasn't always pleasant. 212 00:11:28,025 --> 00:11:31,645 The, the, the rape and pillaging scenario never is. But, uh, but, uh, yeah, 213 00:11:31,645 --> 00:11:33,605 exactly. . But, uh, are you gonna the. 214 00:11:33,605 --> 00:11:34,165 Rape and pillage. 215 00:11:34,165 --> 00:11:36,485 Tonight? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I mean, and, and obviously, 216 00:11:36,785 --> 00:11:39,125 and it's funny too, when I was a kid in South Africa when we had, 217 00:11:39,155 --> 00:11:40,805 when we learned about history in South Africa, 218 00:11:40,805 --> 00:11:45,165 and we learned about Jan f Rubik was the guy that that founded South Africa. 219 00:11:45,305 --> 00:11:49,525 You know, he, they, he sailed down from the Netherlands. And, and, 220 00:11:49,825 --> 00:11:51,925 and that's how South Africa was born, you know, 221 00:11:52,225 --> 00:11:53,405 and then completely. 222 00:11:53,685 --> 00:11:54,805 Ignoring the indigenous folks. 223 00:11:55,025 --> 00:11:56,925 Oh, completely. Like, that wasn't from, that was, 224 00:11:56,925 --> 00:12:00,445 that was not a part of our history at all as a kid growing up there, you know. 225 00:12:00,585 --> 00:12:05,325 And then when I was in Nashville, once we had moved, and I was in high school, 226 00:12:05,465 --> 00:12:09,245 and my senior year there was an African history option class, you know? 227 00:12:09,245 --> 00:12:11,805 And I thought, oh, well, my senior year, let me take this. 228 00:12:11,965 --> 00:12:14,005 'cause I'm just gonna breeze through it because I, 229 00:12:14,085 --> 00:12:17,325 I already know all this stuff. And I was, 230 00:12:17,665 --> 00:12:20,085 my mind was blown even at like, you know, what, 231 00:12:20,445 --> 00:12:24,445 17 or however all that was at that point, I still hadn't gone back. You know? 232 00:12:24,485 --> 00:12:27,405 I mean, I, we had moved, I now, I'm, 233 00:12:27,465 --> 00:12:30,965 now I'm an American kid and a school here and all this sort of stuff. 234 00:12:31,025 --> 00:12:36,005 And I did not understand that there was history that I had not been taught 235 00:12:36,005 --> 00:12:40,285 that had been, you know, um, omitted from those classes. 236 00:12:40,545 --> 00:12:44,925 And it kind of blew my mind. And so that, uh, yeah, that, so that was, 237 00:12:44,925 --> 00:12:47,845 that was a big lesson, . And I know it happens a lot, but it's like, 238 00:12:47,845 --> 00:12:49,725 yeah, when it happens to you, it's like, oh my God, 239 00:12:49,765 --> 00:12:53,005 I can't believe my whole life. I thought that this was how it went. 240 00:12:53,145 --> 00:12:57,805 And there was a whole area before that. And exactly what happened once Jan Re, 241 00:12:57,945 --> 00:13:01,165 Jan Van Reik was not the hero. , you know, I mean, 242 00:13:01,365 --> 00:13:04,565 and which is obviously how it, I, it had been taught to me, you know? 243 00:13:04,565 --> 00:13:05,398 Sure. So, yeah. 244 00:13:05,685 --> 00:13:07,565 American history is no different. That's no. 245 00:13:07,825 --> 00:13:10,965 Our vibe. Well, and I mean, you want to go down that road today. I mean, 246 00:13:10,965 --> 00:13:14,485 and they're trying to make it even more that, which is despicable. But anyway, 247 00:13:14,485 --> 00:13:15,318 yeah. It's despicable. 248 00:13:15,325 --> 00:13:19,805 I agree. How was, uh, your, your Jewishness growing up there? How was that? 249 00:13:19,915 --> 00:13:24,485 Were people, uh, did you get lumped into a particular part of town as well? 250 00:13:24,905 --> 00:13:29,405 No, not really. I had friends that were Jewish and not Jewish, um, 251 00:13:29,665 --> 00:13:32,725 but it there, but there was a very strong Jewish community in Cape Town. 252 00:13:33,225 --> 00:13:36,005 And so I didn't, again, I'm not, 253 00:13:36,945 --> 00:13:41,365 I'm not a particularly religious person. I do, I love the faith, I love the, 254 00:13:41,745 --> 00:13:45,965 um, the traditions around the Jewish traditional Yeah. It's great, you know, 255 00:13:46,285 --> 00:13:48,565 . And so, and I was raised very much like that. Yeah. 256 00:13:48,565 --> 00:13:52,565 Like we were raised . We would have these big family dinners for, uh, 257 00:13:52,565 --> 00:13:55,285 over the Jewish holidays, but instead of doing, like, 258 00:13:55,285 --> 00:13:58,245 going through like the whole service at home, we'd have, like, 259 00:13:58,245 --> 00:14:01,045 my grandmother would sit at the big table. We would all be there and, you know, 260 00:14:01,205 --> 00:14:04,525 whatever. And we would have like the abridged version of like, you do this, 261 00:14:04,525 --> 00:14:07,925 there's a song here. You do this little quick little thing, you know, and like, 262 00:14:08,035 --> 00:14:11,365 amen. And then you go straight to the snack, straight to the food, you know, 263 00:14:11,645 --> 00:14:14,965 . And there was sort of certain services too, like where there was, uh, 264 00:14:15,145 --> 00:14:18,485 oh God, I'm testing my Jewish knowledge here, but, but there was, 265 00:14:18,485 --> 00:14:20,605 there was service where at the end of the service, 266 00:14:20,945 --> 00:14:24,485 the kids would get Candy chocolate or something, 267 00:14:24,865 --> 00:14:28,405 and my grandmother would take me for like the last 15 minutes of the . 268 00:14:28,405 --> 00:14:32,965 Like we would sneak in the back of the shul and , you know? So, uh, 269 00:14:33,105 --> 00:14:36,485 now that's hilarious. Now that I have a daughter that just turned seven, I am, 270 00:14:37,005 --> 00:14:41,965 I really want to start getting back into that stuff just so that she 271 00:14:42,565 --> 00:14:45,085 Heritage knows those stories. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really important. Yeah. 272 00:14:45,125 --> 00:14:45,958 I think it's really great. Yeah. 273 00:14:46,005 --> 00:14:49,085 I get that. Well, last night I said, oh, it's Yom Kiku, you went. Oh, really? 274 00:14:49,265 --> 00:14:53,165 Oh, really? . Well, we should toast on that . Yeah, yeah, yeah. 275 00:14:53,825 --> 00:14:55,325 No, exactly. Great for me. Yeah, yeah. 276 00:14:55,325 --> 00:14:58,205 Yeah. Right. Well, the thing about being Jewish, right? There's a, 277 00:14:58,205 --> 00:15:00,085 there's being culturally Jewish That's right. 278 00:15:00,085 --> 00:15:02,005 And then there's being religiously Jewish. Yeah. And, 279 00:15:02,065 --> 00:15:04,565 and sometimes those two paths cross and sometimes they. 280 00:15:04,565 --> 00:15:06,485 Don't. Completely. Yeah. Completely. Yeah. Yeah. 281 00:15:06,985 --> 00:15:11,925 How was the culture shock of coming to the US aside from realizing you didn't 282 00:15:11,925 --> 00:15:13,005 know anything about your own country. 283 00:15:13,325 --> 00:15:15,805 ? Oh, well, yeah. No, thankfully that didn't all happen at the same time. 284 00:15:16,165 --> 00:15:20,805 . But yeah, no, it was heavy. You know, I moved, so we moved in, 285 00:15:21,025 --> 00:15:23,485 um, August. My birthday's in March, so I was like, 286 00:15:23,525 --> 00:15:27,525 I was literally like 12 and a half. And I, and I, 287 00:15:28,945 --> 00:15:31,245 you know, when, when we first found out that we were leaving South Africa, 288 00:15:32,045 --> 00:15:33,245 I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. 289 00:15:33,405 --> 00:15:34,645 'cause we were coming to America and back. 290 00:15:34,645 --> 00:15:38,965 And back then America was like the land of dreams. Like, you know, the, the, 291 00:15:39,705 --> 00:15:42,525 the, just all the, 292 00:15:42,585 --> 00:15:45,285 all the things you can imagine essentially like living, 293 00:15:45,295 --> 00:15:49,605 going to live in Disney World, you know? And, and it's funny, a year before me, 294 00:15:49,805 --> 00:15:52,965 a girl had moved to the States with her parents. I think they moved to Atlanta. 295 00:15:53,545 --> 00:15:56,445 And I remember thinking, man, that is just so cool. It would be so amazing. 296 00:15:56,925 --> 00:15:59,605 I wonder where she, Jane Robbie was her name. I'll never forget him. So anyway, 297 00:15:59,605 --> 00:16:01,685 Jane, if you're listening, Jane, if you're listening, gimme a call. 298 00:16:02,025 --> 00:16:04,925 So the year later we were moving, Ethel was so cool. And, 299 00:16:05,265 --> 00:16:08,925 and all my friends thought I was so cool. And I was not. I was a very shy kid. 300 00:16:08,985 --> 00:16:13,965 And I didn't like my best friend when I was at that age was the super 301 00:16:13,965 --> 00:16:17,645 cool kid. And I was definitely in the shadows and like did my own thing, 302 00:16:17,885 --> 00:16:19,645 whatever. So all of a sudden I was like, wow, it's so cool. 303 00:16:19,745 --> 00:16:21,805 Nick's moving to America. How cool is that? 304 00:16:22,185 --> 00:16:25,485 And then like days before we were leaving, I realized, oh wait, 305 00:16:25,825 --> 00:16:29,845 I'm leaving everybody I know here and everything I know here. 306 00:16:29,845 --> 00:16:33,045 And so it was sort of exciting and, and it was the first realizations of, oh, 307 00:16:33,045 --> 00:16:36,565 this isn't gonna be so easy. And then we got to the States. Um, 308 00:16:36,565 --> 00:16:38,845 it was only weeks before I was gonna have to start school. 309 00:16:38,845 --> 00:16:42,045 And we had no idea where I was gonna school. And so, thankfully, um, 310 00:16:42,585 --> 00:16:45,445 we found this great school in Nashville called the University School in 311 00:16:45,445 --> 00:16:49,245 Nashville. 'cause my mom had heard nothing but, uh, nightmare stories about, uh, 312 00:16:49,245 --> 00:16:52,245 public schools in the States. And, and back then, pre-internet, 313 00:16:52,425 --> 00:16:56,165 all that we had to go on was movies. Right. And we saw these movies where like, 314 00:16:56,345 --> 00:16:58,645 in the high schools drug deals are happening and all these other things. 315 00:16:58,665 --> 00:17:01,965 Mom was like, you're not going to one of those schools , you know? So, 316 00:17:02,385 --> 00:17:06,445 so she found about, out about this great liberal arts K through 12. 317 00:17:07,065 --> 00:17:11,685 And somehow I got in and thank goodness it's a phenomenal school. 318 00:17:12,035 --> 00:17:13,965 It's quite famous. Incredible. Well, and my daughter goes still to the same. 319 00:17:13,965 --> 00:17:16,605 My daughter goes there now, you know? And, um, it's, 320 00:17:18,165 --> 00:17:23,085 I will say thank goodness for that and music, because it was such a, 321 00:17:23,505 --> 00:17:25,645 um, it was such a great environment. Um, 322 00:17:25,705 --> 00:17:29,045 the relationship with the teachers is so great for me being still, like, 323 00:17:29,085 --> 00:17:31,725 I was still pretty shy and I had an extremely strong accent. 324 00:17:32,115 --> 00:17:34,925 Some people couldn't understand me. A lot of people just wanted me to talk, 325 00:17:35,105 --> 00:17:38,845 and I was really shy and didn't know where I fit in or anything like that. 326 00:17:39,185 --> 00:17:40,018 It took a year, 327 00:17:40,105 --> 00:17:44,725 it took a year of me not being so happy about things and occasionally really 328 00:17:44,745 --> 00:17:49,685 hating things to finally feel like I may have a footing or may fit 329 00:17:49,685 --> 00:17:52,005 in somewhere, you know? Mm-Hmm. . So that was seventh grade, 330 00:17:52,295 --> 00:17:54,645 which is, I mean, it's tough grade anyway for kids that age. 331 00:17:54,715 --> 00:17:58,285 It's like you question everything. Like every little thing is the biggest thing. 332 00:17:58,285 --> 00:18:01,765 It can be . Yeah. You know? Absolutely. And, uh, I, I had a, 333 00:18:01,845 --> 00:18:03,125 I had a hard time. Yeah, yeah. 334 00:18:03,225 --> 00:18:07,325 But I played music and I met friends doing that. 335 00:18:07,745 --> 00:18:12,565 And it, it, through eighth grade had a little band, had, you know, 336 00:18:12,565 --> 00:18:17,085 all those. And that kind of helped, helped me find the, 337 00:18:17,145 --> 00:18:18,125 my people always. 338 00:18:18,175 --> 00:18:19,008 Drums. 339 00:18:19,155 --> 00:18:21,605 Yeah. I just, I always, I've played drums since, 340 00:18:22,345 --> 00:18:25,725 but I was hitting on things before I was playing drums. I was, 341 00:18:25,725 --> 00:18:27,765 it's just always been in me. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. 342 00:18:27,765 --> 00:18:29,525 Mm-Hmm. . What happens after high school? 343 00:18:30,425 --> 00:18:31,205 So, you know, 344 00:18:31,205 --> 00:18:35,205 I played all the way through high school and then decided in my senior year of 345 00:18:35,205 --> 00:18:37,125 high school, I went to go see Sting. And, 346 00:18:37,145 --> 00:18:40,685 and it's funny 'cause even in my senior year, my senior book or whatever the, 347 00:18:40,685 --> 00:18:44,365 the high school book that it says somewhere like a quote from me saying like, 348 00:18:44,525 --> 00:18:46,685 I met ing or whatever, which is funny thing about, 349 00:18:46,685 --> 00:18:49,725 but I did get to meet him at the show that he was at through a friend of a 350 00:18:49,725 --> 00:18:53,245 friend. And in that meeting, I, I met, um, his drummer at the time, 351 00:18:53,245 --> 00:18:56,165 Vinny Kaluta, who, well, I was a huge, huge fan of, 352 00:18:56,545 --> 00:18:59,725 and we talked about Berkeley School of Music, and I already knew about that. 353 00:18:59,825 --> 00:19:01,845 And I knew that I wanted to keep playing drums. 354 00:19:01,845 --> 00:19:06,605 And that was a one avenue to be able to do that. And then Vinny was, 355 00:19:06,825 --> 00:19:10,325 uh, you know, uh, was a huge influence and was, you know, 356 00:19:10,325 --> 00:19:12,125 talking so highly about Berkeley. So I was like, okay, 357 00:19:12,125 --> 00:19:12,958 well that's where I'm going. 358 00:19:12,985 --> 00:19:17,765 So I took a semester off after high school because we were still not legal. 359 00:19:17,915 --> 00:19:21,285 Like we were still living under the radar a hundred percent ing for the whole 360 00:19:21,285 --> 00:19:22,485 time. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 361 00:19:22,705 --> 00:19:24,925 Oh, so you, they didn't even know you were really in the country. 362 00:19:25,545 --> 00:19:28,285 Um, they didn't know that. And by they, like, 363 00:19:28,285 --> 00:19:31,925 the authorities would care whoever care. Yeah. They, they would not have known, 364 00:19:32,305 --> 00:19:33,138 um, because. 365 00:19:33,625 --> 00:19:35,525 You were an illegal, an illegal immigrant. 366 00:19:35,605 --> 00:19:38,765 I was an illegal alien. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And. 367 00:19:38,765 --> 00:19:39,475 Immigrant, I suppose. 368 00:19:39,475 --> 00:19:42,085 Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, you were all the face. But the thing is, we haven't, 369 00:19:42,185 --> 00:19:44,565 we hadn't really even immigrated yet. Like we were, 370 00:19:44,905 --> 00:19:48,965 we were completely just sitting under the radar waiting for that 371 00:19:49,315 --> 00:19:52,685 paperwork to come through so we could get a green card. Interesting. And, 372 00:19:52,705 --> 00:19:56,605 and that meant not being able to do certain, like, I love driving, I love cars, 373 00:19:56,605 --> 00:19:58,605 and I couldn't wait till I turned 16 to drive, 374 00:19:59,065 --> 00:20:02,765 but certain things had to happen before I could get my license. And it was, 375 00:20:02,765 --> 00:20:05,205 it wasn't that long. They, I dunno how they were able to work out, I dunno, 376 00:20:05,205 --> 00:20:08,405 all the details, but it was a couple of months that I was like, 377 00:20:08,545 --> 00:20:09,445 why is this such, 378 00:20:09,505 --> 00:20:12,765 and not even under with a bigger enough scope to be able to understand, hey, 379 00:20:12,765 --> 00:20:16,445 there are bigger things. And at work here, just be happy that everything's, 380 00:20:16,465 --> 00:20:17,045 you know, did. 381 00:20:17,045 --> 00:20:18,885 Your mom have a job during that whole time? 382 00:20:19,385 --> 00:20:22,605 She would work a little side jobs and stuff for people and getting paid under 383 00:20:22,605 --> 00:20:23,245 the table and stuff like. 384 00:20:23,245 --> 00:20:24,525 That. I've interviewed, uh, 385 00:20:24,705 --> 00:20:27,885 people that don't have green cards that are living in this country, uh, 386 00:20:28,135 --> 00:20:30,285 quote unquote illegally, whatever that means. Yeah. 387 00:20:30,285 --> 00:20:31,725 For a human being to be illegal in. 388 00:20:31,725 --> 00:20:32,605 The country. Well, yeah. 389 00:20:32,635 --> 00:20:35,245 Yeah. But, uh, and uh, 390 00:20:35,245 --> 00:20:39,005 they use things like fake social security. They still pay taxes. 391 00:20:39,195 --> 00:20:40,685 They do all the things that are reg, 392 00:20:40,965 --> 00:20:44,125 probably more so because they're trying to desperately not to get caught. Yeah. 393 00:20:44,485 --> 00:20:44,725 I mean, 394 00:20:44,725 --> 00:20:48,445 most of my friends who were born here do everything they can to not pay all 395 00:20:48,445 --> 00:20:48,645 their taxes. 396 00:20:48,645 --> 00:20:51,085 To not pay the taxes. That's right. That's right. Well, it's funny, 397 00:20:51,205 --> 00:20:53,245 I remember us getting social security cards, 398 00:20:53,505 --> 00:20:57,005 but it said not for hire or can't be, you know, whatever. It is interesting. 399 00:20:57,005 --> 00:20:59,845 You know, I don't know if that system still exists or, or how it works. 400 00:20:59,865 --> 00:21:02,445 Who knows? I mean, yeah. Honestly, after nine 11, everything changed. And, 401 00:21:02,505 --> 00:21:06,965 and if nine 11, if we wouldn't have been able to do what we did. Sure. 402 00:21:07,145 --> 00:21:08,165 Had it been after that, it's. 403 00:21:08,165 --> 00:21:11,205 Also incredibly expensive to become a citizen of the. 404 00:21:11,205 --> 00:21:14,005 United States. It's very expensive. Yeah. And thankfully, you know, 405 00:21:14,005 --> 00:21:18,365 so we were able to pay for all that, I mean, in South Africa, um, 406 00:21:18,545 --> 00:21:21,725 as opposed to in the States. I mean, 407 00:21:21,725 --> 00:21:25,525 we were living on very little amounts of money. As a result, 408 00:21:25,545 --> 00:21:29,125 my dad had actually helped find a way for us to be able to get some money 409 00:21:30,275 --> 00:21:33,565 over beyond just money that you could travel on. Because I mean, 410 00:21:33,565 --> 00:21:35,805 you're not expected when you come and vacation somewhere. 411 00:21:35,805 --> 00:21:38,205 You're not expected to be paying rent and groceries and all that sort of stuff. 412 00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:41,845 And that's, we were very limited in what we could do over months and months. 413 00:21:41,945 --> 00:21:45,205 So my mom, we were living, we were living like refugees, 414 00:21:45,465 --> 00:21:48,085 not necessarily actually being refugees, but you know, I mean, 415 00:21:48,085 --> 00:21:50,565 very much on bare minimum. So, you know, were you. 416 00:21:50,565 --> 00:21:51,805 On scholarship then at school? 417 00:21:52,105 --> 00:21:53,885 You know, I, I, and I've, I keep, 418 00:21:54,075 --> 00:21:56,445 this is one of those things I keep forgetting to actually find out about. 419 00:21:56,445 --> 00:22:00,125 There was some sort of a visa scenario that allowed money to come through to be 420 00:22:00,125 --> 00:22:02,805 able to pay for the school. You know, it was that kind of thing. Mm-Hmm. 421 00:22:02,845 --> 00:22:05,765 . Mm-Hmm. . But I give again, credit to my mom, 422 00:22:05,825 --> 00:22:06,125 you know, 423 00:22:06,125 --> 00:22:10,285 university school every year would ask for that paperwork that they would need 424 00:22:10,285 --> 00:22:14,525 to have. And every year my mom would say, oh, the lawyers are working on, 425 00:22:15,465 --> 00:22:17,965 I'm working on it. I, you know, I'll get it to you. And, and as long as I, 426 00:22:18,085 --> 00:22:19,965 I mean, I was a good kid and I didn't, 427 00:22:20,345 --> 00:22:23,125 didn't give them a lot of reason to have to question. 428 00:22:23,225 --> 00:22:24,885 So they just kind of university school, 429 00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:28,045 kind of not throwing anybody under the bus, but kind of looked the other way. 430 00:22:28,045 --> 00:22:30,965 Understand. You know, it's been a, it's been a long time, so Yeah, 431 00:22:31,185 --> 00:22:32,965 for sure. Um, but yeah. And I. 432 00:22:33,525 --> 00:22:34,965 Remember them when the alumni That's. 433 00:22:34,965 --> 00:22:39,205 Right. Trust me. Trust me. I do. Anyway, . Um, 434 00:22:39,985 --> 00:22:43,485 but yeah, so we were, we were very fortunate to have gotten by as we did, 435 00:22:43,625 --> 00:22:47,525 you know, and, and it, and it came out great on the other side. Yeah, yeah. 436 00:22:47,525 --> 00:22:51,325 Yeah. And in fact, it took a long time. Like we had green cards for a long time. 437 00:22:51,465 --> 00:22:55,725 And then, uh, finally I applied for citizenship, just yeah. 438 00:22:56,145 --> 00:22:59,885 For whatever reason. And then, got it. So yeah, there you go. 439 00:23:00,575 --> 00:23:02,845 After the gap year, you go to Berkeley. 440 00:23:03,145 --> 00:23:03,978 So yeah, I took a, 441 00:23:04,205 --> 00:23:06,565 actually just took a semester off semester 'cause we had to go back to Cape Town 442 00:23:06,705 --> 00:23:09,885 to now get green cards. So, because now we were, 443 00:23:10,465 --> 00:23:13,005 now it was time to have those meetings and blah, blah, blah. 444 00:23:13,005 --> 00:23:13,805 So I took a semester, 445 00:23:13,805 --> 00:23:15,965 we were down there for like two months or something like that, and, 446 00:23:16,225 --> 00:23:20,085 and did the interview at the embassy, which was a little ridiculous. 447 00:23:20,245 --> 00:23:22,445 'cause now I had an American accent, , like, 448 00:23:22,445 --> 00:23:25,445 it was obvious we had been in the States, but Yeah. You. 449 00:23:25,555 --> 00:23:27,725 Kind of have an American accent. . Yeah. Anyway, 450 00:23:27,725 --> 00:23:29,805 when we were hanging out last night, I could hear it, 451 00:23:29,905 --> 00:23:31,965 you could hear a little bit as the, as the alcohol went up. 452 00:23:32,865 --> 00:23:36,645 The accent came out. Yeah. It can happen. Yeah. So, and yeah, 453 00:23:36,645 --> 00:23:39,525 and then I went back and I went to Berkeley because I would never have gotten 454 00:23:39,525 --> 00:23:43,405 into Berkeley without having a green card or, you know, at least. Sure. Yeah. 455 00:23:43,405 --> 00:23:48,125 I started there in, in January of that next year. And I was there for, uh, 456 00:23:48,535 --> 00:23:51,005 about three years. I've kind of went through the summers. 457 00:23:51,165 --> 00:23:54,605 'cause right at that time that I was, that I went to up to Boston, 458 00:23:55,305 --> 00:23:58,605 my mom and my aunt and her younger sister, who's a singer songwriter, 459 00:23:58,775 --> 00:24:00,245 moved up to Woodstock, New York. 460 00:24:00,265 --> 00:24:04,365 Debbie was going to be going down to the city gigs and working with a couple of 461 00:24:04,365 --> 00:24:07,325 really big writers up there. Big, big famous artists. 462 00:24:08,065 --> 00:24:12,725 And so my mom moved up there with her. And, um, I was in Boston. Hmm. 463 00:24:12,795 --> 00:24:13,628 Yeah. 464 00:24:13,885 --> 00:24:17,245 I hear that the folks that don't graduate from Berkeley are the ones that tend 465 00:24:17,245 --> 00:24:18,605 to be the most successful. 'cause they. 466 00:24:19,085 --> 00:24:22,285 I graduated. Oh, you did? I actually did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 467 00:24:22,515 --> 00:24:23,845 Okay. Because I know so. 468 00:24:23,845 --> 00:24:26,045 Many I know what you're saying though. I, it's absolutely right. A lot of, 469 00:24:26,045 --> 00:24:29,485 they get plucked out a a lot of times they either get plucked out or the ones 470 00:24:29,485 --> 00:24:32,965 that just end up staying there and graduating, maybe don't have the, 471 00:24:34,045 --> 00:24:38,485 I don't know, the path, the vision, the, the, it's a lot, you know, to do, 472 00:24:38,505 --> 00:24:39,445 to do this thing. So, 473 00:24:39,705 --> 00:24:44,445 but I happened to be up there and I was touring with bands around New England, 474 00:24:44,665 --> 00:24:49,205 and I was doing a lot of recording stuff at Berkeley, like the, 475 00:24:49,945 --> 00:24:54,525 you know, midnight to six film scoring project or whatever in the, 476 00:24:54,905 --> 00:24:58,645 in the whatever studio at Berkeley come out to find. My car had been towed. 477 00:24:58,675 --> 00:25:01,685 I've got class at nine, you know, 10 or something. You know, 478 00:25:01,745 --> 00:25:03,685 that's a real musician. That was college life right there. 479 00:25:03,715 --> 00:25:06,365 That was Dick Musician College life. Absolutely. So, have. 480 00:25:06,365 --> 00:25:09,005 You ever, if you haven't had your car towed as a musician, oh. 481 00:25:09,005 --> 00:25:10,645 My God, are you really a musician? . Well, 482 00:25:10,645 --> 00:25:13,645 and then a particularly musician in Boston between booting and tow. I know. 483 00:25:13,645 --> 00:25:16,565 It's like a, that's the norm, right? Yeah. 484 00:25:16,565 --> 00:25:19,085 And so it just so happened because I stayed up there through the summers. 485 00:25:19,765 --> 00:25:22,325 I was within a semester or two or something of graduating, 486 00:25:22,325 --> 00:25:26,165 and I was kind of thinking of doing something else. My mom was like, you know, 487 00:25:26,165 --> 00:25:30,205 you're there, you're busy. You're doing all this stuff. Just do it. 488 00:25:30,205 --> 00:25:33,765 Just finish the thing, get the whatever. Even if you never use it, you're, 489 00:25:33,765 --> 00:25:37,245 you're already in line to beginning it. So I did. Yeah. Yeah. 490 00:25:37,245 --> 00:25:38,965 Yeah. What was your first big break? 491 00:25:39,825 --> 00:25:44,725 Boy, I don't know if I can, it's hard to, one of two things. 492 00:25:45,035 --> 00:25:46,285 When I was in high school here, 493 00:25:46,605 --> 00:25:51,365 I had done a surprise party with my band at the time for this girl 494 00:25:51,365 --> 00:25:55,765 whose, uh, parents wa a guy named Mac Gaden, 495 00:25:55,785 --> 00:26:00,245 who co co-wrote, uh, everlasting Love and, you know, big songs, 496 00:26:00,555 --> 00:26:05,405 everlasting Love, you know, like super that and, and a couple of other, 497 00:26:05,785 --> 00:26:09,685 not as big, but still big hits. Mac really liked how I played. And this, 498 00:26:09,805 --> 00:26:13,285 I was in, uh, you know, eighth grade? No, no, no one. 499 00:26:13,365 --> 00:26:15,045 I'm talking about 10th grade or something like that. 500 00:26:15,545 --> 00:26:20,125 So then around my senior year, as I was graduating high school, 501 00:26:20,265 --> 00:26:24,125 he hired me to go on the road with him. So I went out with him. 502 00:26:24,405 --> 00:26:29,405 I was by far the youngest guy in the band. I was 16, 17, um, 503 00:26:29,405 --> 00:26:30,925 when I first started doing gigs with him. 504 00:26:30,925 --> 00:26:34,485 And everybody else was at least more than twice my age, you know, 505 00:26:34,665 --> 00:26:36,085 and I got to work with some actual, 506 00:26:36,245 --> 00:26:40,325 I found out afterwards Nashville Heavyweights. And at the time, 507 00:26:40,405 --> 00:26:43,485 I had no idea a guy named Tom Rodie, who unfortunately has passed away, 508 00:26:43,505 --> 00:26:46,725 but great percussionist who was on the road. And, and it's a funny story. 509 00:26:46,785 --> 00:26:50,245 So , I was watching TV one night, uh, 510 00:26:50,245 --> 00:26:54,045 this James Taylor concert came on and there's Tom Rodie in the back playing for 511 00:26:54,195 --> 00:26:56,725 like, what? That's the guy that I played with, with Matt Gaden. 512 00:26:56,725 --> 00:27:00,325 I didn't know he did, played with James Taylor, who, whom I'm a huge fan of. 513 00:27:00,465 --> 00:27:04,245 Anyway. So that kind of thing happened all the time. 514 00:27:04,245 --> 00:27:06,085 And so I actually missed my, uh, 515 00:27:06,135 --> 00:27:10,525 graduation party because I was doing a gig with Mac at this place called 3 28 516 00:27:10,525 --> 00:27:13,685 Performance Hall in Nashville Old School joint that's not there anymore. Um, 517 00:27:13,805 --> 00:27:15,285 I remember that place. Yeah. I. 518 00:27:15,285 --> 00:27:16,805 Saw Steve Earl there. Oh. 519 00:27:16,805 --> 00:27:17,638 Yeah. Who played for. 520 00:27:17,675 --> 00:27:19,165 Nine hours, I think. Really? 521 00:27:19,365 --> 00:27:20,325 , because. 522 00:27:20,325 --> 00:27:21,605 He plays a long time when. 523 00:27:21,605 --> 00:27:23,805 He plays. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So I, 524 00:27:23,995 --> 00:27:27,445 that was one break was getting to do stuff with Mac and, 525 00:27:27,545 --> 00:27:32,245 and those kind of musicians when I was so young and so 526 00:27:32,485 --> 00:27:33,405 learning, you know what I mean? 527 00:27:33,805 --> 00:27:37,445 I cannot imagine that's a child. Right. Very much. 528 00:27:37,605 --> 00:27:39,205 I cannot imagine what, 529 00:27:39,745 --> 00:27:43,965 how quickly you were forced to grow up in those parameters. Yeah. 530 00:27:44,145 --> 00:27:45,605 The things you probably saw. 531 00:27:46,005 --> 00:27:48,045 . Well, there's so many, so many funny things happen. 532 00:27:48,105 --> 00:27:52,525 So the bass player was a guy named Byron House, who's just awesome. And, uh, 533 00:27:52,605 --> 00:27:57,045 I really love that guy. And he was a guy that told me we were rehearsing in my, 534 00:27:57,385 --> 00:27:59,245 in my, like, my mom's in our house. 535 00:27:59,625 --> 00:28:03,325 We were rehearsing with Mac and that band for some of these shows. 536 00:28:03,985 --> 00:28:08,405 And we were playing Everlasting Love. And I had no idea that Mack wrote that to, 537 00:28:08,405 --> 00:28:11,405 and at that point, and so Mac's talking to somebody else in the band, 538 00:28:11,405 --> 00:28:14,125 and Byron's right next to me, and I'm like, man, 539 00:28:14,545 --> 00:28:18,725 of all the songs that we would cover, why is he doing this one in Byron's? Like, 540 00:28:18,925 --> 00:28:20,845 'cause he wrote it . It was a, 541 00:28:20,845 --> 00:28:24,725 and that talk about a Nashville thing. That's a Nashville thing. Sure. So at 17, 542 00:28:24,805 --> 00:28:26,765 I was like, okay, understood that one. 543 00:28:26,865 --> 00:28:30,005 And then he also told me a couple of different ways to play, 544 00:28:30,005 --> 00:28:33,525 like accent the ride and stuff while we're playing. I was just, 545 00:28:33,605 --> 00:28:36,245 I was a rock guy and the high school band, you know, 546 00:28:36,245 --> 00:28:39,165 all of a sudden I'm playing with these big dudes. Wow. You know, 547 00:28:39,185 --> 00:28:42,325 so there's some neat little lessons from that. 548 00:28:43,005 --> 00:28:44,925 I would say that was that break. And I think the, 549 00:28:44,985 --> 00:28:49,925 the next break that kind of got me started in my sort of professional whatever 550 00:28:49,995 --> 00:28:54,925 road was getting hired to play with Colonel Bruce Hampton out of Atlanta. 551 00:28:55,025 --> 00:28:56,245 And Bruce was an. 552 00:28:56,245 --> 00:28:57,078 Actual colonel? 553 00:28:57,625 --> 00:29:01,285 No, no. He got the name. Oh man. Like some other, 554 00:29:02,165 --> 00:29:05,085 I can't remember. Like, he, he had his life was like the. 555 00:29:05,085 --> 00:29:05,918 Chicken guy. Colonel. 556 00:29:05,925 --> 00:29:09,205 was wrapped in Mystery. Yeah, exactly. Sort of. And he, uh, 557 00:29:10,345 --> 00:29:13,365 he was a, yeah. And I'd been a huge fan of his, 558 00:29:13,365 --> 00:29:15,205 when I was in high school playing along with, 559 00:29:15,425 --> 00:29:20,245 he had a band called Aquarium Rescue Unit that was amongst 560 00:29:20,245 --> 00:29:22,085 players, was just the shit. I. 561 00:29:22,085 --> 00:29:22,805 Feel like I've heard of. 562 00:29:22,805 --> 00:29:25,485 That band. They were just killing all the players were just amazing. 563 00:29:25,745 --> 00:29:28,765 And they were based out of Atlanta. And then Atlanta. 564 00:29:28,785 --> 00:29:31,285 Had some great bands. Georgia put out some. 565 00:29:31,285 --> 00:29:35,765 Great music. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I got to, 566 00:29:35,805 --> 00:29:39,485 I moved to Atlanta, like I got done with college in about a, you know, 567 00:29:39,485 --> 00:29:43,005 maybe a year later or something like that, that I moved a couple years later. 568 00:29:43,125 --> 00:29:46,205 I moved to Atlanta and was playing with Colonel Bruce. 569 00:29:47,385 --> 00:29:48,218 And that was a big, 570 00:29:48,315 --> 00:29:53,045 that was big because I got to play with so many of my heroes on 571 00:29:53,045 --> 00:29:56,405 stage. I mean, 'cause everybody loved Bruce. So he was like the, 572 00:29:56,505 --> 00:30:00,805 the godfather of the sort of jam band hippie scene. 573 00:30:01,225 --> 00:30:04,245 So whether it was the guys from the Allman Brothers, 574 00:30:04,305 --> 00:30:06,685 or we played with Little Feet a bunch. And so, 575 00:30:06,835 --> 00:30:09,845 like me and Richie Haywood would do like the double drummer thing. 576 00:30:09,845 --> 00:30:14,005 And I grew up playing with Little Feet Records and all that stuff. So that was, 577 00:30:14,005 --> 00:30:16,645 that was kind of a big, that was a big deal. And, and I learned, 578 00:30:17,725 --> 00:30:20,605 Berkeley was my school school, 579 00:30:20,945 --> 00:30:23,845 and Bruce was my real life road school. 580 00:30:24,005 --> 00:30:27,765 I learned a lot in the two or two and a half years or whatever that I was 581 00:30:27,765 --> 00:30:28,805 playing with him. Did. 582 00:30:28,805 --> 00:30:30,125 You have a lot of American, 583 00:30:30,345 --> 00:30:33,645 and I assume UK band influenced living in South Africa then? 584 00:30:33,705 --> 00:30:37,285 How did you get your music and what was your first album you. 585 00:30:37,285 --> 00:30:41,805 Bought? Hmm. . Well, the first album I bought was, well, 586 00:30:41,805 --> 00:30:43,485 I should say it was definitely the first cd. Oh, 587 00:30:43,545 --> 00:30:47,165 the first tape I remember was Twisted Sister Come out and play Kate Schneider. 588 00:30:47,515 --> 00:30:52,205 Yeah. Okay. Um, uh, but the first CD I remember buying was Living Color, 589 00:30:52,665 --> 00:30:56,605 uh, that the Cult to Personality Vivid, I guess was the name of that word. Yeah. 590 00:30:56,605 --> 00:30:59,045 Yeah. In South Africa, we got a lot of American music. I mean, 591 00:30:59,045 --> 00:31:03,565 there was a lot of local stuff too. And I think a lot of local, uh, 592 00:31:03,955 --> 00:31:08,365 kind of grooves influences kind of found their way to me without me even 593 00:31:08,365 --> 00:31:13,325 knowing. It's not like I was very, um, aware of African music, 594 00:31:13,325 --> 00:31:15,045 like going out to see it necessarily. 595 00:31:15,905 --> 00:31:20,725 But I do know that I was very aware of those grooves and stuff when it came 596 00:31:20,725 --> 00:31:24,765 to like, those kind of influences. Actually, while I was, 597 00:31:25,405 --> 00:31:28,125 I think it was right after I was outta college when I was first back in 598 00:31:28,125 --> 00:31:32,525 Nashville for a minute before I moved to Atlanta, I played with this, um, 599 00:31:32,735 --> 00:31:37,445 black saxophone player named OJ ecmo. And he was, uh, 600 00:31:37,825 --> 00:31:39,605 all African, traditional African, 601 00:31:40,155 --> 00:31:44,485 some Cuban African style grooves. And so all of a sudden I was like, 602 00:31:44,765 --> 00:31:48,525 I think the one white guy in the band. And really, I don't, 603 00:31:48,765 --> 00:31:50,245 I can't even remember how that came together, 604 00:31:50,585 --> 00:31:55,125 but I remember all of a sudden here I was in Nashville playing these true 605 00:31:55,125 --> 00:31:58,685 African stuff with dancers and the backup singers, and That's so cool. 606 00:31:58,985 --> 00:32:03,045 And the whole thing. And uh, and somehow it was completely natural for me. Like, 607 00:32:03,045 --> 00:32:07,325 nothing seemed odd about it, you know? So what an education Yeah. Another, yeah. 608 00:32:07,325 --> 00:32:10,725 Another little like yeah. Weird tidbit of for sure that, that, 609 00:32:11,475 --> 00:32:14,365 it's not like that comes into play very often, but it, it was there, you know, 610 00:32:14,595 --> 00:32:18,725 it's cool. For sure. Yeah. So, so the Bruce thing lasted about two, 611 00:32:18,725 --> 00:32:22,645 two and a half years. And then it was band Dynamics that, that I was, 612 00:32:22,805 --> 00:32:26,965 I was ready to leave and I came back to Nashville because I wasn't, 613 00:32:26,965 --> 00:32:29,725 that was the biggest crossroads, I think LA or Nashville. 614 00:32:29,945 --> 00:32:34,405 And I knew some people in la but I really had better friends in Nashville that 615 00:32:34,405 --> 00:32:36,205 had moved up the ladder while I had been gone. 616 00:32:36,465 --> 00:32:40,005 And I thought this is a better place for me to find the next step. 617 00:32:40,545 --> 00:32:44,325 And within about a month of moving back, I, 618 00:32:45,525 --> 00:32:47,865 uh, a guy that I had met through, uh, a, 619 00:32:48,145 --> 00:32:52,225 a guy that I played with in high school, um, was the band leader for, um, 620 00:32:52,405 --> 00:32:55,305 an artist named Cindy Thompson, who at the time had just had a big number one. 621 00:32:55,405 --> 00:32:59,265 And she was like a young pop country, um, 622 00:33:00,245 --> 00:33:01,078 phenom. 623 00:33:01,365 --> 00:33:06,305 And so I played with Cindy for a year or so and loved 624 00:33:06,305 --> 00:33:06,945 it. I mean, 625 00:33:06,945 --> 00:33:11,105 I came straight from being in the jam band scene with Colonel Bruce moving back 626 00:33:11,105 --> 00:33:11,545 to Nashville. 627 00:33:11,545 --> 00:33:14,785 And all of a sudden I'm on this pop country gig playing with loops, 628 00:33:14,955 --> 00:33:17,225 doing all which I'd never done before. You know, 629 00:33:17,225 --> 00:33:20,585 opening up for Alan Jackson and blah, blah, blah, blah, all these other people. 630 00:33:20,845 --> 00:33:24,545 And Cindy was awesome. And the band was great. And the playing was, 631 00:33:25,265 --> 00:33:30,145 I got to use like a lot of my sort of James Taylor style things that I 632 00:33:30,145 --> 00:33:32,865 really loved in that gig. And, and I also, 633 00:33:32,865 --> 00:33:36,865 thankfully was good friends with some of those folks. So, uh, 634 00:33:36,985 --> 00:33:39,905 a guy named Bruce Wallace who had Bruce Bruce right. Who was, 635 00:33:40,125 --> 00:33:42,945 was Cindy's band leader. Talk about a talent. It's incredible. 636 00:33:43,095 --> 00:33:43,928 I've written with him. 637 00:33:44,135 --> 00:33:45,705 He's, I think he's such a talent. 638 00:33:45,855 --> 00:33:49,545 Yeah, yeah. Such a smooth acoustic player. Smooth acoustic player. I know. 639 00:33:49,545 --> 00:33:51,545 Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. And he, uh, 640 00:33:52,085 --> 00:33:55,705 but thankfully he was super cool and loved the fact that I had never listened to 641 00:33:55,705 --> 00:33:58,345 country before and playing on this country gig. 642 00:33:58,445 --> 00:34:00,985 And also loved the fact that I would go for it all the time, 643 00:34:01,485 --> 00:34:04,225 but also was cool enough to be able to say, Hey, 644 00:34:04,225 --> 00:34:06,905 maybe we pull it back a little bit after, you know, 'cause I was, 645 00:34:07,545 --> 00:34:10,105 I was young and ready to go . Yeah. You know, 646 00:34:10,565 --> 00:34:14,665 and I'd just come off the Jam Man scene where anything was Yeah. Viable. Sure. 647 00:34:14,725 --> 00:34:18,465 You know, so the Cindy gig was great, and I was sad that, that when it ended, 648 00:34:18,805 --> 00:34:21,065 and then I kind of did some touring in the country scene, 649 00:34:22,125 --> 00:34:24,785 met Mindy Smith through the local thing around Nashville, 650 00:34:24,795 --> 00:34:27,225 who's just such a phenomenal sort of, uh, 651 00:34:28,475 --> 00:34:31,505 folky Americana, but even more than that kind of art, 652 00:34:31,505 --> 00:34:35,265 like great singer songwriter, toured with her, played on some of her records. 653 00:34:36,405 --> 00:34:39,785 And that kind of started the like, okay, I really want to just play on records. 654 00:34:40,185 --> 00:34:42,425 I, I mean, at that point in Nashville, 655 00:34:42,425 --> 00:34:47,145 there was a much thicker line between guys that were on the road and guides that 656 00:34:47,385 --> 00:34:50,985 recorded. It's a different vibe. It, yeah. Well, it is a different thing. 657 00:34:51,225 --> 00:34:54,665 I mean, there, you know, a lot of times the, the road guys would get pissed. 658 00:34:54,665 --> 00:34:55,505 They weren't playing on the records, 659 00:34:55,605 --> 00:34:57,625 but they'd never really spent time in the studio. And, 660 00:34:58,405 --> 00:35:01,345 and there's a way to play in the studio and a way to play live. And they're, 661 00:35:01,345 --> 00:35:03,665 and totally different thing. Until you can understand the difference. 662 00:35:04,005 --> 00:35:07,105 You can't just be expected to come in and Mm-Hmm. And make a, 663 00:35:07,385 --> 00:35:11,105 a recording sound good, even if you're killing it on stage, you know? 664 00:35:11,645 --> 00:35:15,625 So I spent time trying to get into the recording thing, you know, at the, 665 00:35:15,725 --> 00:35:19,065 at the cost of gigs. I mean, gigs would come up and it would be like, I don't, 666 00:35:19,485 --> 00:35:22,225 I'm gonna stay here and not make any money right now instead of going out and 667 00:35:22,225 --> 00:35:26,425 making whatever on the road. That's a tough call. It was a tough call, 668 00:35:26,885 --> 00:35:28,225 but I knew I wanted to do both. 669 00:35:28,445 --> 00:35:31,505 And I knew that I would never get to be doing the recording side if I kept 670 00:35:31,505 --> 00:35:35,945 touring, you know? But if I got the recording thing going, I could still tour. 671 00:35:36,165 --> 00:35:39,525 You know? And that's sort of how I've, where I've ended up . Yeah. 672 00:35:39,785 --> 00:35:40,725 You know, so. Yeah. 673 00:35:40,725 --> 00:35:42,405 Yeah. How many records do you think you've played on? 674 00:35:43,645 --> 00:35:45,165 I have no honest. Let's. 675 00:35:45,165 --> 00:35:45,325 Call your. 676 00:35:45,325 --> 00:35:48,845 Union rep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Surely there's a way we can find this out. . 677 00:35:49,085 --> 00:35:51,285 . Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot. A lot. I've played on a lot. Yeah. Yeah. 678 00:35:51,305 --> 00:35:52,138 And some of them, 679 00:35:52,235 --> 00:35:56,645 some of 'em have been heard by 15 people and some of 'em are heard about a lot 680 00:35:56,645 --> 00:35:57,885 more. You know, it's just, I've, I. 681 00:35:57,985 --> 00:36:00,365 And sometimes the ones that are heard by 15 people are better. 682 00:36:00,365 --> 00:36:02,445 Than the, they can be some, I, there are some, 683 00:36:02,565 --> 00:36:06,005 I have recorded some great records that I listened to that are on Spotify that I 684 00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:11,165 listened to that I know have not, I don't know how many people have heard 'em, 685 00:36:11,165 --> 00:36:13,645 but they, they were not anything big. They didn't have Yeah. 686 00:36:13,645 --> 00:36:17,285 A single that dropped or whatever. But the record was still great. Yeah. 687 00:36:17,285 --> 00:36:17,945 You know, 688 00:36:17,945 --> 00:36:22,365 but then thankfully I will say the records that are the biggest records I've 689 00:36:22,365 --> 00:36:25,885 played on, I think are also actually cool records. I, I'm not, 690 00:36:26,295 --> 00:36:30,125 there is nothing that's out there and big that I can say that I'm embarrassed 691 00:36:30,125 --> 00:36:33,765 that I've played on, you know, which is, which is I think is fortunate. Yeah. 692 00:36:33,915 --> 00:36:34,665 Yeah. 693 00:36:34,665 --> 00:36:35,965 My name is Big . 694 00:36:36,405 --> 00:36:39,205 . That's right, that's right. Change up some letters. No, no. 695 00:36:39,205 --> 00:36:42,445 That's not me. I know. It's weird. . Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 696 00:36:43,545 --> 00:36:47,765 Uh, did you decide, do you have a, you have a child? 697 00:36:48,165 --> 00:36:49,165 I have two. Oh, you. 698 00:36:49,165 --> 00:36:49,325 Have two. 699 00:36:49,325 --> 00:36:53,805 Kids? Yep. I've got a seven year old girl, Addie, and a two year old boy Oliver. 700 00:36:54,025 --> 00:36:54,785 Oh, look at you. 701 00:36:54,785 --> 00:36:55,205 You've. 702 00:36:55,205 --> 00:36:56,965 Been busy. Yeah, . Yeah. I didn't know about, 703 00:36:57,125 --> 00:36:59,605 I didn't even know how that happens. It happens. Yeah. I'll. 704 00:36:59,635 --> 00:37:01,005 I'll show you a chart later. 705 00:37:01,195 --> 00:37:03,805 Yeah. Okay. I'll explain everything. Different interview maybe , 706 00:37:04,235 --> 00:37:04,805 I'll explain. 707 00:37:04,805 --> 00:37:07,165 Everything. Yeah. Let's talk about that for a minute. Yeah. 708 00:37:07,255 --> 00:37:08,845 Let's get off of music for a. 709 00:37:08,845 --> 00:37:10,125 Second. Yeah, sure. How is. 710 00:37:10,125 --> 00:37:10,958 Fatherhood? 711 00:37:11,115 --> 00:37:15,925 It's so much more involved than I thought it would be. , 712 00:37:16,065 --> 00:37:17,805 you know, in a great way though. You know, 713 00:37:17,805 --> 00:37:20,205 when people say it's the hardest and most awesome thing, 714 00:37:20,945 --> 00:37:24,005 you know that whole thing, and you're like, yeah, okay, sure. Whatever. 715 00:37:24,235 --> 00:37:25,725 Somehow when you're in it, 716 00:37:25,865 --> 00:37:30,365 it actually is because it's because you don't always have the answers. 717 00:37:30,665 --> 00:37:34,005 And the answers are important. So like, you're sitting there like, well, 718 00:37:34,805 --> 00:37:38,085 I know that I shouldn't have said this thing, 719 00:37:38,085 --> 00:37:41,045 but I also need to make sure that this point gets across. But I don't, you know, 720 00:37:41,045 --> 00:37:42,925 there's all these, I don't know, 721 00:37:42,925 --> 00:37:47,925 there's all these ways of having to go around communicating with a seven year 722 00:37:47,985 --> 00:37:49,645 old brain, you know, 723 00:37:49,815 --> 00:37:54,325 which is still figuring itself out and still kind of how, 724 00:37:54,745 --> 00:37:57,645 you know, it's all, it's all important. 725 00:37:57,705 --> 00:38:01,525 And yet some of it is taken with a grain of salt, you know? So I, 726 00:38:01,595 --> 00:38:04,765 it's awesome though. Uh, I really love it. And, and, um, you know, 727 00:38:04,765 --> 00:38:09,605 obviously Ali being just two is, he's sweet and cute, but as he comes up, 728 00:38:09,815 --> 00:38:14,485 it'll be interesting to see how he, I, I don't know just how, how it all works. 729 00:38:14,605 --> 00:38:18,405 I love that Addie has been able to come to some gigs here and there. You know, 730 00:38:18,505 --> 00:38:21,445 she hasn't really, she actually has been in the studio a couple times, 731 00:38:21,585 --> 00:38:24,805 but obviously for just brief amounts of time, you know, my, 732 00:38:24,825 --> 00:38:26,685 my partner Ashley is, is amazing at, 733 00:38:26,685 --> 00:38:30,365 at being able to cover all that ground when I'm, because you know, 734 00:38:30,395 --> 00:38:34,085 like session time is, is sort of a non-negotiable. I can't be like, 735 00:38:34,605 --> 00:38:38,285 I know it starts at 10, but I've got a kid think, can I be there at 10 30? Like, 736 00:38:38,285 --> 00:38:40,805 no, you actually gotta be here at nine 30 and make sure we got drum sounds and 737 00:38:41,085 --> 00:38:43,485 whatever. And that, and that just is what it is. Fortunately, 738 00:38:44,085 --> 00:38:47,125 I have a partner that is willing to cover that. If, 739 00:38:47,225 --> 00:38:50,965 if something comes up she can take care of, of, of that, and, you know, 740 00:38:50,995 --> 00:38:53,245 will you be somehow work out away. That's. 741 00:38:53,325 --> 00:38:54,158 Good teamwork. 742 00:38:54,315 --> 00:38:56,605 Yeah. Yeah. It's what it is. Yeah. For sure. 743 00:38:56,915 --> 00:39:00,205 When you realized a daughter, did you panic. 744 00:39:00,795 --> 00:39:04,685 Just because of being a daughter? Uh, no. I really wanted a girl. Okay. Yeah. 745 00:39:04,685 --> 00:39:08,165 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I would've been happy with a boy first as well, but I, 746 00:39:08,225 --> 00:39:10,045 inside I knew I really wanted a girl. Okay. 747 00:39:10,105 --> 00:39:13,165 And so when I found out it was a girl, it was, yeah. It was awesome. And I mean, 748 00:39:13,165 --> 00:39:15,645 she and I definitely have a special connection. Yeah. You know, it's, 749 00:39:15,645 --> 00:39:19,925 it's really sweet. Yeah. I love, you know, I've been this last, 750 00:39:20,985 --> 00:39:23,245 um, year and a half, unfortunate to have this big gig. 751 00:39:23,245 --> 00:39:24,765 We'll talk about it a little bit or whatever. Yeah. But, 752 00:39:25,065 --> 00:39:28,205 but having one of the coolest moments was having her on the side of the stage 753 00:39:28,225 --> 00:39:30,725 seeing it. 'cause it's, 'cause she's so, 754 00:39:31,375 --> 00:39:34,485 she's so into it and she sings along with the songs. 755 00:39:34,745 --> 00:39:38,445 And just her seeing her look at such a big crowd and like, 756 00:39:38,445 --> 00:39:41,805 kind of take it all in was kind of a cool experience. 757 00:39:41,805 --> 00:39:44,125 For me. Some of the biggest crowds ever probably. Yeah. Yeah. 758 00:39:44,265 --> 00:39:46,405 As well. It's pretty neat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 759 00:39:46,625 --> 00:39:49,965 It remind me who you're playing with before you got this gig. 760 00:39:50,225 --> 00:39:54,965 Nobody. Oh, I, I mean, I've been, I've played with Juul over the years. Um, 761 00:39:55,445 --> 00:39:58,325 I, I, I started, I played on a record for Juul years ago, 762 00:39:58,945 --> 00:40:02,285 and then not nothing to do with that at all. 763 00:40:02,365 --> 00:40:04,245 I got called to do a gig for her at some point, 764 00:40:04,245 --> 00:40:07,005 maybe 2016 ish or something like that. 765 00:40:07,585 --> 00:40:09,685 And then kept doing gigs for her, you know, 766 00:40:09,745 --> 00:40:12,965 and I've done a few of her Christmas tours and stuff. She's, she's awesome. 767 00:40:13,055 --> 00:40:16,565 She's such a great artist to work for. Super easygoing. 768 00:40:16,565 --> 00:40:19,125 Sometimes artists are not so easygoing. 769 00:40:19,125 --> 00:40:23,285 There's a definite split between like the artist realm or the artist, uh, 770 00:40:23,575 --> 00:40:26,725 perception and sort of everybody else's perception. 771 00:40:26,905 --> 00:40:31,485 And to find artists that you can actually have a conversation with and get along 772 00:40:31,485 --> 00:40:35,005 with and text randomly or whatever. It's, it's, it's few and far between. 773 00:40:35,025 --> 00:40:38,605 And I happen to be, I happen to be around two of them, , you know, 774 00:40:38,605 --> 00:40:41,965 fairly frequently, which is, which is great, you know. And so Jewel is, uh, 775 00:40:42,525 --> 00:40:45,645 I still go play with her. I went, I did a gig with her a couple, two, 776 00:40:45,645 --> 00:40:49,405 three months ago or whatever, you know, a, a weekend with her. So, um, 777 00:40:49,475 --> 00:40:53,405 it's always fun. And I'm, I'm always there for it, so, but no, but before this, 778 00:40:53,755 --> 00:40:57,765 this Chesney gig, which is what I'm doing now, surprise, surprise. Um, I, uh, 779 00:40:57,965 --> 00:41:01,325 I hadn't actually done any real touring other than the Juul thing for a decade. 780 00:41:01,625 --> 00:41:04,245 Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I, because I've been, you know, 781 00:41:04,245 --> 00:41:06,405 the session stuff have been going really well. And, um, 782 00:41:06,715 --> 00:41:09,405 I'll go and do weekends here and there with people or whatever, 783 00:41:09,405 --> 00:41:10,365 but nothing more than that. 784 00:41:10,665 --> 00:41:13,365 How did the Kenny Chesney thing come about? 785 00:41:14,045 --> 00:41:16,405 I knew, I know pretty much, I, 786 00:41:16,485 --> 00:41:20,245 I have known pretty much everybody in his band for kind of a long time. Uh, 787 00:41:20,245 --> 00:41:22,285 just from the Nashville scene, you know, uh, 788 00:41:22,285 --> 00:41:25,125 pretty much everybody had plays on sessions and stuff. 789 00:41:25,465 --> 00:41:29,845 And so when that position became available, I got a call, um, 790 00:41:30,315 --> 00:41:35,245 from, from John, the guitar player. And Is that the band leader? 791 00:41:35,505 --> 00:41:39,725 No. Oh, no. But, but, uh, everybody, uh, Wyatt is the band leader. 792 00:41:39,725 --> 00:41:44,605 And Wyatt had said to everybody, Hey, put down on, uh, two or three guys or, 793 00:41:44,605 --> 00:41:47,565 or girls, whatever, that you feel like would be good fits for this band. 794 00:41:47,765 --> 00:41:50,165 I found out afterwards that I had ended up on everybody's list, 795 00:41:50,165 --> 00:41:54,325 which is very sweet. Which is awesome. And so John had called me and said, Hey, 796 00:41:54,435 --> 00:41:55,885 well, it's funny. He called me and left a message, 797 00:41:55,945 --> 00:41:58,805 and I thought it was about playing on his daughter. 798 00:41:58,945 --> 00:42:00,045 It was something to do with his daughter. 799 00:42:00,245 --> 00:42:02,285 'cause Savannah Conley is his daughter, great artist. 800 00:42:02,305 --> 00:42:04,885 And I played on her first record a long time ago. So, 801 00:42:04,885 --> 00:42:09,725 and it was right around Christmas of, of whenever that was 21. And, um, I, 802 00:42:10,205 --> 00:42:12,685 I was kind of forgetful and slow, and I just never got back to him. 803 00:42:12,685 --> 00:42:15,525 And I think he called me back like a week later or something was like, Hey, man, 804 00:42:15,545 --> 00:42:17,485 and oh, I saw his name come up. I was like, oh, shit. 805 00:42:17,485 --> 00:42:19,965 I forgot to call John back. So, , so that. 806 00:42:20,025 --> 00:42:22,085 Was in the heat of, uh, pandemic times too. 807 00:42:22,085 --> 00:42:23,365 Wasn't it? It was the heat of pandemic. Yeah. 808 00:42:23,365 --> 00:42:26,885 And so everything was kind of slow and whatever, you know, it wasn't, anyway, 809 00:42:27,605 --> 00:42:31,205 I pick up and he's, and he mentions that this, would I be interested in the gig? 810 00:42:31,265 --> 00:42:35,445 And honestly, I didn't know Kenny. I didn't know what his vibe was. 811 00:42:35,665 --> 00:42:36,845 The other thing I knew is that yes, 812 00:42:36,845 --> 00:42:40,485 he was very successful and a guy in a hat singing country songs. 813 00:42:40,545 --> 00:42:42,485 And that's not necessarily my vibe. So, 814 00:42:43,045 --> 00:42:46,285 although I was interested just to see what it was, I, 815 00:42:46,305 --> 00:42:48,325 it wasn't like I was chomping at the bit to get it. 816 00:42:48,675 --> 00:42:52,245 Another close friend of mine, Kenny Greenberg, who's a big session, uh, 817 00:42:52,265 --> 00:42:55,965 player in Nashville, has been doing that gig for a long time, the Chesney gig. 818 00:42:56,225 --> 00:42:58,525 So I called him and we had a long conversation about it, 819 00:42:58,525 --> 00:42:59,965 and he kind of told me the ins and outs, 820 00:43:00,265 --> 00:43:02,365 and now I was starting to get a little more interested in it. 821 00:43:02,385 --> 00:43:04,245 And then I found out there had to be auditions, 822 00:43:04,245 --> 00:43:07,205 which I wasn't overly psyched about, but I was like, 823 00:43:07,285 --> 00:43:11,245 I understand Chesney's only ever really had one drummer for his whole live 824 00:43:11,785 --> 00:43:12,585 career, and. 825 00:43:12,585 --> 00:43:13,445 He started young. 826 00:43:13,665 --> 00:43:15,685 Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. I mean, pretty much. And yet. 827 00:43:15,685 --> 00:43:19,845 That he's one of the most successful of the country and maybe all musicians 828 00:43:19,935 --> 00:43:20,768 everywhere. 829 00:43:20,775 --> 00:43:25,485 Kenny. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, uh, I didn't know these stats about, 830 00:43:25,735 --> 00:43:26,305 about Kenny, 831 00:43:26,305 --> 00:43:29,445 but there's no one that has played more stadium shows in the United States than 832 00:43:29,445 --> 00:43:33,325 Kenny Chesney. And, and when you think about that, packed a studio at a stadium. 833 00:43:33,515 --> 00:43:36,685 Yeah. And, and think about like, when I say nobody, it's like, not in country, 834 00:43:36,785 --> 00:43:40,485 but period. Yeah. Like the Stones. That's a big deal. Any artist. Yeah. 835 00:43:40,545 --> 00:43:45,245 You know, and yeah. So anyway, I go down the road, I do the auditions. 836 00:43:45,245 --> 00:43:50,005 Begrudgingly Ashley was, was very much, uh, the, the one behind me that said, 837 00:43:50,035 --> 00:43:54,285 just do the audition. Don't be all snobbish about it and whatever, ego, 838 00:43:54,565 --> 00:43:57,685 whatever. And I'm happy I did because I was, when I look back on that, 839 00:43:57,685 --> 00:44:01,485 and it hasn't even been two years, I mean, with all that going on, 840 00:44:01,925 --> 00:44:05,605 I couldn't have been more mistaken or naive I should say, 841 00:44:05,615 --> 00:44:08,885 about what this, the Chesney camp was all about. 842 00:44:08,995 --> 00:44:13,485 It's an absolute beautiful group of people. Family, absolute family. 843 00:44:14,285 --> 00:44:15,085 Excellent work, work. 844 00:44:15,085 --> 00:44:17,485 Ethic, incredible work ethic. Yeah. And, and, 845 00:44:17,545 --> 00:44:21,685 and Kenny is another artist that I can, I could text right now, and he'll, 846 00:44:21,705 --> 00:44:25,485 and he'll probably text me back within five minutes. And he's just that dude. 847 00:44:25,595 --> 00:44:27,885 He's, he's become a real friend. Yeah. You know, and, 848 00:44:27,905 --> 00:44:31,740 and that's incredibly rare when it comes to artists that you work with, 849 00:44:31,740 --> 00:44:33,205 particularly on that level. You know. 850 00:44:33,545 --> 00:44:35,605 He probably would not remember this. Mm-Hmm. . 851 00:44:35,865 --> 00:44:40,485 But I accidentally texted Kenny Chesney when I first lived in 852 00:44:40,485 --> 00:44:42,965 Nashville. Oh, yeah. Years and years and years ago, 853 00:44:43,275 --> 00:44:45,805 because I was doing work for Skip Ewing, 854 00:44:46,225 --> 00:44:49,965 who of course wrote a bunch of songs for Kenny and with Kenny. Yeah. 855 00:44:50,265 --> 00:44:54,485 And so I kept track of Skip's phone, you know, 856 00:44:54,485 --> 00:44:57,645 it was basically my phone had all of Skip's contacts. Right. 857 00:44:57,645 --> 00:45:00,965 So that if I had to arrange for him to have a co-write or, or whatever. 858 00:45:01,865 --> 00:45:02,725 And , 859 00:45:03,145 --> 00:45:07,365 it was the day after my birthday and my friends, 860 00:45:07,545 --> 00:45:12,405 we had gone to Lyme. Do you remember Lyme? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And long gone, but, 861 00:45:12,785 --> 00:45:15,685 and they took me out for quite the birthday. Mm-Hmm. . 862 00:45:15,985 --> 00:45:18,605 And the next day I was sitting inro the monkey, 863 00:45:19,545 --> 00:45:23,965 and I was sending a text to everybody to thank them for coming out and, 864 00:45:24,145 --> 00:45:28,525 you know, whatever. And everyone's like, yeah, yeah. Great, great, great. 865 00:45:28,865 --> 00:45:31,965 And then I get this random happy birthday, who is this? 866 00:45:32,425 --> 00:45:33,025 Oh. 867 00:45:33,025 --> 00:45:36,765 That's awesome. And, and it was, it turned out to be Kenny Chesney. 868 00:45:36,765 --> 00:45:41,285 That's amazing. But that interaction actually, um, is the basis for a, 869 00:45:41,485 --> 00:45:42,318 a film I'm writing. 870 00:45:42,625 --> 00:45:43,445 Oh yeah. It's pretty. 871 00:45:43,445 --> 00:45:44,278 Hilarious. . 872 00:45:44,355 --> 00:45:45,485 Awesome. That's. 873 00:45:45,525 --> 00:45:46,358 How it started. 874 00:45:46,565 --> 00:45:48,965 , who's gonna play Kenny? I gotta know . Well. 875 00:45:48,965 --> 00:45:51,805 It'll be, it'll, it's, it's a different character. Oh, I got, but it, 876 00:45:51,805 --> 00:45:52,525 it's a text that says. 877 00:45:52,525 --> 00:45:53,358 About that kind of thing. 878 00:45:53,395 --> 00:45:56,925 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. But, uh, which is pretty funny, 879 00:45:57,145 --> 00:46:01,485 I'm sure. And he was very gracious about the, about this random stranger. 880 00:46:01,955 --> 00:46:04,125 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I didn't abuse the power either. 881 00:46:04,345 --> 00:46:06,965 That's, yeah. Obvious , which is important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 882 00:46:07,195 --> 00:46:08,205 Yeah. It's pretty funny. 883 00:46:08,445 --> 00:46:09,365 . That's awesome. Yeah. 884 00:46:09,365 --> 00:46:11,285 Yeah. How often do you go out on tour? 885 00:46:11,705 --> 00:46:14,605 So, I started with 'em at the beginning of last year, 22. 886 00:46:14,825 --> 00:46:19,765 And we did like a mid-April to end of August across 887 00:46:19,765 --> 00:46:24,645 the country stadium tour. And then, um, this year. And so, 888 00:46:24,645 --> 00:46:26,565 yeah, then we were done at the end, at the end of August. 889 00:46:26,705 --> 00:46:30,245 And then this year we went out and did a little spring tour that was, 890 00:46:31,245 --> 00:46:35,245 I don't know, 25 dates or something from be, you know, 891 00:46:35,245 --> 00:46:37,525 middle of March till end of May. And then that was, 892 00:46:37,525 --> 00:46:38,925 and then we did some weekends and stuff, 893 00:46:38,955 --> 00:46:42,165 like some Saturday night festival kind of things or whatever. But that was it. 894 00:46:42,285 --> 00:46:46,885 I mean, so we've been off for a little while and then next year we'll be 895 00:46:48,305 --> 00:46:53,285 the rumor has it, I should say . . We'll, we'll be another, 896 00:46:53,545 --> 00:46:57,925 uh, big, uh, sort of run across the stadium tour thing again. But even that, 897 00:46:58,005 --> 00:46:58,725 I mean, it's gotta. 898 00:46:58,725 --> 00:47:00,685 Fill all Jimmy Buffett's shows now. . 899 00:47:00,965 --> 00:47:02,285 I know. Well, they. 900 00:47:02,285 --> 00:47:02,885 Don't have a leader. 901 00:47:02,885 --> 00:47:04,725 They're leaderless. I know, I know. 902 00:47:04,725 --> 00:47:07,405 They're gonna have to convert to me coming the cut tuck. It sucked. Yeah. 903 00:47:07,405 --> 00:47:11,165 It's like It sucks that, that, that, that, that, that icon. 904 00:47:11,885 --> 00:47:12,805 I was so sad. It's. 905 00:47:12,805 --> 00:47:13,405 Oh, so sad. I played. 906 00:47:13,405 --> 00:47:13,885 His music all. 907 00:47:13,885 --> 00:47:17,325 Day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh. Terrible. Because it's. 908 00:47:17,475 --> 00:47:20,645 It's so rooted in memories that I had as a kid. That's right. 909 00:47:20,865 --> 00:47:24,885 And my big brother and his friends all playing guitar and playing those songs. 910 00:47:24,885 --> 00:47:28,005 Yeah. And just, it's such a, yeah. It was. 911 00:47:28,025 --> 00:47:31,925 Sad. It's sad. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's, and, but even then, I mean, I'm, 912 00:47:31,965 --> 00:47:35,765 I think I'm pretty fortunate because on a busy year, we'll do 45 dates. And, 913 00:47:35,785 --> 00:47:39,365 and I gotta say, like, I would not have thought about myself, you know, 914 00:47:40,795 --> 00:47:44,765 when the session thing first took off. I love the idea of doing live and, 915 00:47:45,345 --> 00:47:48,285 and recording and doing all, I like playing drums. I like, 916 00:47:48,525 --> 00:47:52,485 I like making music with people, whether it's in, in, 917 00:47:52,545 --> 00:47:55,045 in the recording world, in the way that that's done. 918 00:47:55,565 --> 00:47:59,405 I love the relationship that happens on stage too. Yeah. It's beautiful. 919 00:47:59,505 --> 00:48:03,285 And this, this band right now, the K band is just, I mean, 920 00:48:03,515 --> 00:48:05,325 stellar musicians and so much, are these. 921 00:48:05,525 --> 00:48:07,165 The biggest audiences that you've. 922 00:48:07,165 --> 00:48:08,965 Ever Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've, 923 00:48:08,965 --> 00:48:12,285 I've maybe done a festival in the past where we were playing for a hundred 924 00:48:12,525 --> 00:48:13,805 thousand people or some, something like that. 925 00:48:13,905 --> 00:48:16,205 But never on a constant where like, every, 926 00:48:16,535 --> 00:48:20,565 every stadium we get to is if, if it's not sold out, it's really close. 927 00:48:20,565 --> 00:48:21,965 And it's a whole lot of people. And. 928 00:48:22,085 --> 00:48:23,045 Everyone knows every word. 929 00:48:23,605 --> 00:48:26,125 Everyone knows their word. Everybody's singing along. Yeah. It's incredible. 930 00:48:26,195 --> 00:48:29,805 Yeah. And the fact that that guy commands that and has done for Yeah. 931 00:48:29,805 --> 00:48:32,405 However many years, you know, it's incredible. Yeah. 932 00:48:32,525 --> 00:48:36,285 I, in my mind, I think of Taylor Swift as being a marketing genius. 933 00:48:36,415 --> 00:48:39,965 She's always had such an excellent head for business from really the get-go. 934 00:48:39,965 --> 00:48:42,725 And I have friends who have played on her early, early, 935 00:48:42,735 --> 00:48:45,005 early stuff like the demos. Oh, you did. 936 00:48:45,005 --> 00:48:47,045 Too. I mean, I played on all those first records. Oh. 937 00:48:47,045 --> 00:48:48,045 You did? Okay. And, 938 00:48:48,145 --> 00:48:52,405 and the word on the street was that she always knew exactly who she was, 939 00:48:52,515 --> 00:48:56,285 what her sound was, what she wanted. Right. And could command that in a room. 940 00:48:56,585 --> 00:48:57,075 She. 941 00:48:57,075 --> 00:49:01,485 I'll say. So I was the beginnings of recording. To jump back for a second, 942 00:49:01,805 --> 00:49:03,805 I met a guy named Nathan Chapman, who was Oh, yeah. 943 00:49:03,805 --> 00:49:05,125 Who ended up being her producer. Um, 944 00:49:05,125 --> 00:49:09,685 but at the time he was doing basement demos and had met me. 'cause I, again, 945 00:49:09,685 --> 00:49:12,045 at the beginning, I just wanted to get into recording. 946 00:49:12,045 --> 00:49:16,725 So I bought a very starter recording rig, super amateur, set up mics in a room, 947 00:49:16,865 --> 00:49:19,085 and that was it. Um, but he liked the vibe. 948 00:49:19,225 --> 00:49:22,405 And so we started working together and then he started doing more and more 949 00:49:22,495 --> 00:49:26,685 demos. And one of those demos ended up being well with Liz Rose. Yes. 950 00:49:26,705 --> 00:49:29,685 Who Co-wrote, um, some of those early Taylor Hits. 951 00:49:30,305 --> 00:49:33,965 And so she brought Taylor in to demo one of these songs. 952 00:49:34,065 --> 00:49:35,725 And Taylor really loved the vibe that we had. 953 00:49:35,745 --> 00:49:38,845 And that's how the beginnings of her first record started. 954 00:49:39,545 --> 00:49:42,605 She had already started a record with another much more, 955 00:49:42,605 --> 00:49:45,285 well-known Nashville producer, and, 956 00:49:45,305 --> 00:49:47,885 but really liked the way Nathan worked and really liked the, 957 00:49:47,945 --> 00:49:51,565 we just recorded everything small band me. And to Marx was playing bass. 958 00:49:51,995 --> 00:49:54,085 Chad Carlson was engineering and Nathan. And that was it. 959 00:49:54,705 --> 00:49:57,725 And then Nathan would play everything else afterwards, like build up the track. 960 00:49:58,145 --> 00:50:01,005 And so that's how her first record came together. 961 00:50:01,905 --> 00:50:04,525 And because that record did so well, and because she loved it so much, 962 00:50:05,185 --> 00:50:07,765 the exact same thing happened for the second record as well. 963 00:50:07,765 --> 00:50:11,685 And we went in and did Fearless that way too. And then, and, and the, 964 00:50:11,685 --> 00:50:14,965 the story I was getting to was that she, 965 00:50:15,485 --> 00:50:20,285 I remember even on that first record, go working on a song, 966 00:50:20,285 --> 00:50:23,765 going through the song, and we'd get done with a take. And in my mind, 967 00:50:23,805 --> 00:50:25,885 I would think like, well, I wonder how she's gonna think about this. 968 00:50:26,325 --> 00:50:29,205 I know that. I, I think we could do one better one. But if she likes it, 969 00:50:29,205 --> 00:50:32,045 she likes it. And we didn't, these were almost demos. I mean, 970 00:50:32,045 --> 00:50:34,445 we knew that we were supposedly gonna be making a record. 971 00:50:34,985 --> 00:50:38,645 Nobody thought anything was gonna happen beyond what we were doing right there 972 00:50:38,665 --> 00:50:42,765 as 15 year old artist, I mean, brand new label, they took a chance. They. 973 00:50:42,765 --> 00:50:46,285 They brought Taylor around and people wouldn't write with her 'cause she was 974 00:50:46,285 --> 00:50:49,285 young. And they're like, oh, who's this kid? That's right. . They're, 975 00:50:49,285 --> 00:50:49,965 they're kicking. 976 00:50:49,965 --> 00:50:51,845 Themselves down. It's, it's really incredible. Yeah. I mean, 977 00:50:52,085 --> 00:50:54,805 I think she got turned down by, just, by every label in town. You know, 978 00:50:54,875 --> 00:50:58,525 it's really phenomenal classic story. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . And, um, 979 00:50:59,345 --> 00:51:02,685 and I remember after a take like that, Taylor would be the one be like, 980 00:51:03,125 --> 00:51:06,445 I liked it, but I think we got a better one. And she was 15 Mm-Hmm. 981 00:51:06,485 --> 00:51:08,005 . And I gave her commanding. 982 00:51:08,005 --> 00:51:11,605 Adult mostly men, sorry. Yeah, fine. Yeah. In the, in the, in the room. 983 00:51:11,835 --> 00:51:16,445 Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So at that age even I knew that like, wow, 984 00:51:16,445 --> 00:51:18,685 she's something different. She's really got something. Yeah. Yeah. 985 00:51:19,065 --> 00:51:22,765 And then I was, Hey, you know what? I was just thankful to be a part of, 986 00:51:23,125 --> 00:51:26,165 I ended up doing the first four records with her and, 987 00:51:26,985 --> 00:51:31,445 and now my daughter is so all over. I mean, uh, 988 00:51:31,985 --> 00:51:34,125 we cannot be in the car without her wanting to listen to. 989 00:51:34,765 --> 00:51:38,685 I think we've moved past the first, the same four songs. , but, but, 990 00:51:38,745 --> 00:51:41,285 but there's, but pretty much any, she was like, okay, well I'm, 991 00:51:41,285 --> 00:51:44,405 you can pick whichever one as long as it's on a Taylor record . So it's, 992 00:51:44,425 --> 00:51:47,045 you know, that's cute. So we always do a lot of Taylor Swifts now. 993 00:51:47,105 --> 00:51:50,645 But it is sweet because when I was recording those records a long time ago, 994 00:51:51,285 --> 00:51:54,125 I could not have imagined my daughter singing along to 'em, you know? 995 00:51:54,125 --> 00:51:54,915 So that's kind of neat. 996 00:51:54,915 --> 00:51:56,965 That is cool. Yeah. That is really cool. Well, 997 00:51:56,965 --> 00:51:59,845 what I was gonna say is that from an early age, 998 00:51:59,945 --> 00:52:03,805 she had a very good understanding of marketing and who she was and what she 999 00:52:03,805 --> 00:52:08,245 wanted company. And I think that Kenny Chesney also had that in him. 1000 00:52:08,545 --> 00:52:08,925 Oh my gosh. 1001 00:52:08,925 --> 00:52:13,085 Genius as far as marketing and what he wanted and what his vision was, 1002 00:52:13,145 --> 00:52:15,685 and stayed, stayed the course. Regardless. 1003 00:52:16,125 --> 00:52:19,445 I think they both have, they both have, they both have, um, 1004 00:52:19,795 --> 00:52:24,605 been able to move with their careers and continually go to the next 1005 00:52:24,655 --> 00:52:28,285 stage before the career even gets there. Mm-Hmm. Kenny is so, 1006 00:52:28,915 --> 00:52:29,748 like, I don't know. 1007 00:52:29,925 --> 00:52:33,485 I know the only things I know about Taylor's world of through friends I know 1008 00:52:33,485 --> 00:52:34,445 that are still working with her, 1009 00:52:34,865 --> 00:52:39,005 but I see Kenny showing up to make sure that the lighting is exactly what it 1010 00:52:39,005 --> 00:52:40,165 needs to be. It's like, well, 1011 00:52:40,285 --> 00:52:43,045 I like this shade of orange when we go to this part of the song, 1012 00:52:43,185 --> 00:52:45,885 or this video needs to be this, when we go to this thing, you know, 1013 00:52:46,345 --> 00:52:50,245 he is a part of every piece of the show that we do. You know, 1014 00:52:50,355 --> 00:52:53,525 even when he's in the song and he's killing it out there, 1015 00:52:53,525 --> 00:52:54,565 running around and singing, 1016 00:52:54,955 --> 00:52:58,165 he's still paying attention to all the stuff that's happening around him. 1017 00:52:58,265 --> 00:53:01,445 You know, it's, I don't know how he does it. It's in, it's incredible. Yeah. 1018 00:53:01,555 --> 00:53:03,005 Yeah. They're just next level. 1019 00:53:03,395 --> 00:53:04,565 Yeah. Really, really. 1020 00:53:04,565 --> 00:53:07,365 Are they're next level. Yeah. And, uh, I, 1021 00:53:07,525 --> 00:53:11,445 I think back again to Taylor in that when she wanted to shift out of being 1022 00:53:11,445 --> 00:53:15,085 country and go into a more pop sound, and everyone's like, 1023 00:53:15,085 --> 00:53:17,365 you're gonna kill your career. Everything. That's right. Yeah. 1024 00:53:17,365 --> 00:53:21,245 But to her credit, she stayed her course. Right. She could have been like, 1025 00:53:21,245 --> 00:53:22,485 oh my God. Yeah, you're right. 1026 00:53:22,625 --> 00:53:25,725 I'm gonna listen to these other people who supposedly know more than I do. 1027 00:53:26,425 --> 00:53:28,285 But she blazed her own. 1028 00:53:28,285 --> 00:53:30,765 Trail. But you know what? She always has. Yeah. I mean, 1029 00:53:30,865 --> 00:53:35,085 the thing that happened when, at the very beginning of her career, so she got, 1030 00:53:35,305 --> 00:53:38,965 you know, didn't get signed by any other label in town, 1031 00:53:39,275 --> 00:53:41,725 scar Shadow got, you know, with. 1032 00:53:41,725 --> 00:53:42,605 Her dad. Yeah. Didn't. 1033 00:53:42,605 --> 00:53:43,805 Didn't deal. Got nothing. Didn't deal. They got that thing and, 1034 00:53:44,345 --> 00:53:48,445 and then they started recording this record, and then Taylor met Nathan and, 1035 00:53:48,585 --> 00:53:50,765 and like that. And Scott was like, well, yeah, 1036 00:53:50,765 --> 00:53:52,725 but we're already recording this thing. And she said, no, 1037 00:53:52,725 --> 00:53:56,685 I don't want to do that anymore. And I mean, what artist gets to, 1038 00:53:57,385 --> 00:54:01,445 not even gets to, but has the, the whatever inner the metal. 1039 00:54:02,005 --> 00:54:04,125 I call that metal with M-E-T-T-L-E. 1040 00:54:04,315 --> 00:54:09,165 Yeah. Yeah. To just say, Nope, this is not working for me. This is better. Yeah. 1041 00:54:09,305 --> 00:54:12,565 And I want to do this. Yeah. And she was absolutely right. 1042 00:54:12,705 --> 00:54:15,965 And she worked on her craft. Oh. And I think when she started, she was a kid. 1043 00:54:15,965 --> 00:54:18,005 Right. Her voice wasn't really mature yet. Oh yeah. 1044 00:54:18,005 --> 00:54:18,595 She was figuring it out. 1045 00:54:18,595 --> 00:54:19,765 Yeah. She was figuring it out. 1046 00:54:20,025 --> 00:54:24,645 And that not only I'm glad that the world gave the 1047 00:54:24,845 --> 00:54:27,725 patience for it, but that she gave herself the patience. Yeah. 1048 00:54:27,725 --> 00:54:31,005 Because a lot of us don't have that. Right. Yeah. We don't, we kind of like, oh, 1049 00:54:31,645 --> 00:54:35,565 I can't get from Suck to really great in enough, in a quick enough time. Yeah. 1050 00:54:35,745 --> 00:54:36,885 I'm abandoning ship. 1051 00:54:37,595 --> 00:54:39,925 It's almost like she had no doubt that even if she, 1052 00:54:40,065 --> 00:54:43,085 she could take the criticism and have no doubt that she would get there. That. 1053 00:54:43,135 --> 00:54:44,205 Takes a special person. 1054 00:54:44,385 --> 00:54:47,165 It does. Yeah. And she did all the things along the way. I remember, 1055 00:54:47,605 --> 00:54:49,885 I think when we were doing the Fearless Record, 1056 00:54:49,985 --> 00:54:51,125 or maybe it was the one after that, 1057 00:54:51,165 --> 00:54:55,765 I can't remember when CMA Fest was happening right in the midst of while we were 1058 00:54:55,765 --> 00:54:56,598 recording. 1059 00:54:56,825 --> 00:55:00,965 And one of the days she went to the stadium, 1060 00:55:01,195 --> 00:55:05,405 they had somehow gotten the use of the stadium and they parked her bus in the 1061 00:55:05,405 --> 00:55:09,085 middle of the stadium, and she stayed there for like five hours or something, 1062 00:55:09,745 --> 00:55:13,445 um, signing autographs. She didn't like play or anything, 1063 00:55:13,505 --> 00:55:15,805 but people could come in and it was packed. And they would, 1064 00:55:15,825 --> 00:55:19,245 and she just sat there and talked to everybody and signed all the autographs and 1065 00:55:19,245 --> 00:55:20,075 all this sort of stuff. 1066 00:55:20,075 --> 00:55:23,565 Yeah. Because regardless, she also knows that without those fans, 1067 00:55:23,705 --> 00:55:26,045 who by the way would take a bullet for her. Yeah. 1068 00:55:26,205 --> 00:55:28,085 . Yeah. They're incredible. Yeah. I. 1069 00:55:28,085 --> 00:55:32,205 Know as I, I don't know if Gus fans are as intense, but. 1070 00:55:32,485 --> 00:55:34,885 I mean, some of 'em are pretty intense, but I don't know, 1071 00:55:35,245 --> 00:55:37,485 I think the Taylor thing has definitely gone to another level. 1072 00:55:37,705 --> 00:55:40,245 That's this level. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dedic level. Yeah. Yeah. 1073 00:55:40,645 --> 00:55:45,205 I want to ask you, we had tacos in LA a a while, 1074 00:55:45,565 --> 00:55:50,005 a year ago. Your mom's husband? Yeah. Yeah. Creator of. 1075 00:55:50,345 --> 00:55:55,285 Jim Stalin. A creator of Thanos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who, yeah. So it, it's, 1076 00:55:55,305 --> 00:55:58,165 it kind of an interesting thing because as, 1077 00:55:58,705 --> 00:56:01,325 as we are both artists doing the thing, you know, 1078 00:56:01,345 --> 00:56:04,765 he had he had spent life being perfectly popular and, 1079 00:56:05,105 --> 00:56:08,245 and well known in that artist community. Uh, 1080 00:56:08,245 --> 00:56:13,005 having worked for DC and Marvel over the years created Anos many, 1081 00:56:13,005 --> 00:56:14,285 many years ago. What. 1082 00:56:14,285 --> 00:56:15,115 A character. 1083 00:56:15,115 --> 00:56:18,485 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it had been in that realm, and then all of a sudden, 1084 00:56:18,615 --> 00:56:19,925 these, um, 1085 00:56:20,205 --> 00:56:24,085 Avengers movies just took off the Marvel movies in general. Right. 1086 00:56:24,085 --> 00:56:28,805 Just completely took off being the biggest grossing movies out there before 1087 00:56:28,805 --> 00:56:32,525 Barbie, of course. But, um, yay, Barbie . Love that. And, um, 1088 00:56:32,945 --> 00:56:36,405 and so all of a sudden Jim became a superstar because Thanos was such a huge 1089 00:56:36,405 --> 00:56:36,565 thing. 1090 00:56:36,565 --> 00:56:41,485 It was just interesting to see how his world changed from, 1091 00:56:41,585 --> 00:56:46,045 and like I said, being perfectly fine and doing well, doing his thing to being, 1092 00:56:47,225 --> 00:56:51,325 you know, the guy, you know, for such, for the last, uh, you know, 1093 00:56:51,615 --> 00:56:55,085 quite a few years now. This has been a big thing. Well, anos pretty interesting. 1094 00:56:55,085 --> 00:56:56,765 This is a big deal. It was a really big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1095 00:56:56,765 --> 00:56:58,165 Which is really awesome. Was he. 1096 00:56:58,165 --> 00:57:01,245 Pleased, you know, if, uh, how, how they did the movies? 1097 00:57:01,545 --> 00:57:04,685 Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. He really, uh, and in fact, 1098 00:57:05,605 --> 00:57:09,565 I think he even played a, uh, he was a, 1099 00:57:09,805 --> 00:57:12,485 a little role in one of, in one of the movies. 'cause they liked, 1100 00:57:12,485 --> 00:57:14,365 they liked doing that kind of thing. Brain. Yeah. Stanley. 1101 00:57:14,385 --> 00:57:14,605 Is. 1102 00:57:14,605 --> 00:57:16,765 Always the Yeah. Stanley's always doing that thing too. That's right. Yeah. 1103 00:57:16,765 --> 00:57:19,005 Rest his soul. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That. 1104 00:57:19,005 --> 00:57:22,885 Almost became not only a bad guy, but in a way, an anti-hero. 1105 00:57:23,105 --> 00:57:26,445 As well. Yeah. Completely. Completely. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think he was, I mean, 1106 00:57:26,475 --> 00:57:30,685 obviously he was, he was happy with how it was portrayed. And then of course, 1107 00:57:30,685 --> 00:57:33,285 that led to all kinds of other opportunities too, 1108 00:57:33,285 --> 00:57:36,045 which I'm not exactly sure what's going on at the moment, 1109 00:57:36,185 --> 00:57:40,885 but I do know that like, his life changed big time as a result of that. 1110 00:57:41,025 --> 00:57:43,685 You know? And it's cool to, it is cool to see that 1111 00:57:45,625 --> 00:57:48,965 you could say like, oh my gosh, I'm, you know, I've been doing this a long time, 1112 00:57:48,985 --> 00:57:52,805 and I'm here, I am turning this age, whatever it is. And like, what's the, 1113 00:57:53,665 --> 00:57:57,885 is anything even gonna happen with blah, blah, blah? And, and in this, in this, 1114 00:57:58,125 --> 00:57:59,565 particularly in the arts, 1115 00:58:00,025 --> 00:58:04,085 in the arts careers as they are anything, 1116 00:58:05,225 --> 00:58:08,725 as long as you're putting yourself out there, working at it, trying to make, 1117 00:58:09,385 --> 00:58:12,605 trying to do the thing that you love, whatever that is, to the, 1118 00:58:12,745 --> 00:58:16,565 to the purest of your whatever, you know, I mean, I think you, 1119 00:58:16,565 --> 00:58:17,885 you stray too far from the course, 1120 00:58:18,425 --> 00:58:21,645 and you may not be doing yourself the best service in, 1121 00:58:21,665 --> 00:58:25,445 in what it is that you're actually after. I think, I think that Jim was, 1122 00:58:25,625 --> 00:58:29,525 was good at keeping on what he wanted to do. And, 1123 00:58:29,665 --> 00:58:32,045 and this may not have ever happened. The, 1124 00:58:32,045 --> 00:58:36,285 the whole Marvel crazy movie success that if that hadn't been, 1125 00:58:36,785 --> 00:58:40,845 if that hadn't exploded like it did, then it would've, 1126 00:58:40,985 --> 00:58:43,325 Thanos may have been in a movie and it might've been a, a, a, 1127 00:58:43,485 --> 00:58:45,965 a midline grossing movie. And that might've just been whatever. 1128 00:58:45,965 --> 00:58:49,445 It just so happens that that, that, that style of movie became the biggest, 1129 00:58:50,105 --> 00:58:53,285 the biggest movies out there. His character was in there. 1130 00:58:53,785 --> 00:58:55,965 And that meant that as, as an artist, 1131 00:58:56,465 --> 00:59:01,125 his status raised, we went through the roof, you know, so we don't know, which. 1132 00:59:01,125 --> 00:59:03,045 Is awesome. We don't know. We don't know which doors are gonna open. 1133 00:59:03,265 --> 00:59:04,098 We have no idea. 1134 00:59:04,685 --> 00:59:07,005 Absolutely. We have no idea the way and the way these things come around. 1135 00:59:07,005 --> 00:59:11,365 There's just no, you just can't plan for it. It's not the thing you can say, 1136 00:59:11,365 --> 00:59:14,565 well, if, if I do this and I do this, then I'm guiding myself down this road, 1137 00:59:14,565 --> 00:59:16,005 and then I could possibly meet this person. 1138 00:59:16,425 --> 00:59:18,885 It doesn't really work like that in this world. And like, 1139 00:59:18,965 --> 00:59:23,085 there've been plenty of times that I've done gigs in scenarios where I knew that 1140 00:59:23,425 --> 00:59:25,525 either some other big person was gonna be there, 1141 00:59:25,625 --> 00:59:29,405 or it would potentially lead to blah, blah, blah. And I almost never did. 1142 00:59:29,465 --> 00:59:31,645 If I thought about it, it almost never did. 1143 00:59:32,025 --> 00:59:35,205 The things that did lead to those next things came out of nowhere, 1144 00:59:35,685 --> 00:59:36,485 and just. 1145 00:59:36,485 --> 00:59:37,365 Showing up to your life. 1146 00:59:37,665 --> 00:59:40,605 That's right. That's right. Oh, yeah. No, I was still doing what I do. Yeah. 1147 00:59:40,605 --> 00:59:42,885 Because I love doing it. There was never a question about that. 1148 00:59:43,085 --> 00:59:45,045 I remember I worked with a producer a few years ago, 1149 00:59:45,645 --> 00:59:48,365 a big legendary producer in Nashville, has been there forever. 1150 00:59:48,825 --> 00:59:52,285 And I remember him telling a story in the studio about an artist that he brought 1151 00:59:52,305 --> 00:59:55,765 to Nashville to record. And they, I somehow got on this talking about like, um, 1152 00:59:57,315 --> 01:00:01,885 what was, what was your, um, like, what, what's your backup plan, you know, 1153 01:00:01,885 --> 01:00:06,285 if music doesn't happen? And he was like, I, I never had a backup plan. 1154 01:00:06,285 --> 01:00:07,365 I never thought about anything else. 1155 01:00:07,585 --> 01:00:11,205 And that's the first time even that I'd even thought about backup plan. 1156 01:00:11,525 --> 01:00:15,045 I never had a backup plan either. Somehow music was gonna work. 1157 01:00:15,205 --> 01:00:18,045 I didn't necessarily know how I, you know, 1158 01:00:18,165 --> 01:00:22,805 I made decisions based on where I felt like I wanted to go based 1159 01:00:22,995 --> 01:00:27,405 upon careers of other drummers that I heavily 1160 01:00:27,675 --> 01:00:32,645 admired maybe, or just what I felt like I liked. You know, 1161 01:00:32,805 --> 01:00:35,845 I know that I'm not the kind of drummer that could just tour with an artist and 1162 01:00:35,845 --> 01:00:40,125 just be out doing that thing, unless it was really the thing, 1163 01:00:40,385 --> 01:00:44,645 or I was an instrumental part of what the hole was. You know, 1164 01:00:45,125 --> 01:00:47,245 I didn't, I just didn't take those things. I've been, 1165 01:00:47,245 --> 01:00:49,845 somehow I've been fortunate enough to say, Nope, I don't wanna do that, 1166 01:00:49,945 --> 01:00:51,285 and I'm just not gonna do it. You know. 1167 01:00:51,635 --> 01:00:52,385 Obviously, 1168 01:00:52,385 --> 01:00:56,765 you know how to adjust your drumming to fit whatever music you're playing, 1169 01:00:56,945 --> 01:01:01,685 but do drummers have always wonder this, do drummers have a, like a fingerprint, 1170 01:01:02,035 --> 01:01:04,525 like a, a style that's really uniquely their. 1171 01:01:04,545 --> 01:01:08,285 Own? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I, um, uh, I think the ones 1172 01:01:10,045 --> 01:01:14,645 I, you know, I think the ones that think about having a voice, you know, um, 1173 01:01:15,005 --> 01:01:19,085 I don't think every musician necessarily thinks about that. I, 1174 01:01:19,135 --> 01:01:20,925 maybe you don't have to think about it to have it, but, 1175 01:01:21,185 --> 01:01:23,965 but I do think that it's a, I think it's an important thing. 1176 01:01:24,045 --> 01:01:27,205 I think too many people get thrown into the, you play drums, 1177 01:01:27,205 --> 01:01:29,365 I need drums on this. You'll be the drummer on this. 1178 01:01:29,365 --> 01:01:33,245 And that's what that thing is. And that's fine. It's making a career. 1179 01:01:33,305 --> 01:01:35,285 You're earning money, but it's not, 1180 01:01:35,385 --> 01:01:38,005 you're not getting called for you necessarily. 1181 01:01:38,025 --> 01:01:40,085 You're getting called because you can provide this service. 1182 01:01:40,665 --> 01:01:42,845 And although that's part of it, for me, 1183 01:01:43,385 --> 01:01:47,645 it meant it means so much more when I'm the person they want because of the 1184 01:01:47,645 --> 01:01:52,645 thing that I do. And that's it. And, and therefore, if I can't do the session, 1185 01:01:53,465 --> 01:01:55,885 the listen, they, sometimes you have to do what you have to do, 1186 01:01:55,885 --> 01:01:57,325 and they'll go with somebody else, and that's fine. 1187 01:01:57,665 --> 01:02:02,165 But the best compliments I can get is when I get a, well, when can you do it? 1188 01:02:02,345 --> 01:02:05,125 You know? 'cause that, because we want to have you on it. That to me is like, 1189 01:02:05,435 --> 01:02:07,925 well, you've just shot to the top of the list. You know, 1190 01:02:08,315 --> 01:02:11,725 I've been very fortunate since meeting Mr. Chesney. 1191 01:02:11,905 --> 01:02:15,245 Now I'm playing on his records as well. And the, 1192 01:02:15,745 --> 01:02:18,845 and some of the biggest, the com. I mean, 1193 01:02:19,075 --> 01:02:23,805 it's just so complimentary to me that he feels like I need to be there for him 1194 01:02:23,825 --> 01:02:26,125 to do this thing. Because how, 1195 01:02:26,585 --> 01:02:31,445 how much value is that in your art that you're bringing when somebody else can 1196 01:02:31,445 --> 01:02:35,125 say, no, I want you for this thing. You know, that, that to me is the, 1197 01:02:35,345 --> 01:02:38,565 that's the goal. Yeah. It's not always gonna be like that, but boy, 1198 01:02:38,565 --> 01:02:39,398 it's great when it is. 1199 01:02:39,585 --> 01:02:41,925 It makes up for all the drumming jokes you've heard over your. 1200 01:02:42,125 --> 01:02:45,365 Lifetime. Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. . Yeah. Boy, and there's, there's a lot. 1201 01:02:45,605 --> 01:02:49,085 . There are so many. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, no, it's true. It's, um, 1202 01:02:49,565 --> 01:02:52,605 , I, I feel like, um, I feel like there's a line between, 1203 01:02:53,425 --> 01:02:58,245 we do this as a career, but we do this out of love, you know, 1204 01:02:58,425 --> 01:03:01,965 and there's, and somehow you can, you gotta find the way that all that meets. 1205 01:03:02,845 --> 01:03:07,085 I mean, I've often said that it takes a little bit of 1206 01:03:07,725 --> 01:03:12,125 insanity too, completely, because this is not an easy road. 1207 01:03:12,415 --> 01:03:17,325 There are way more pitfalls than there are shiny golden apples 1208 01:03:17,355 --> 01:03:22,085 hanging from trees. So, Mm-Hmm, , you have to really, again, 1209 01:03:22,085 --> 01:03:25,925 that metal define it in yourself to keep going. It's freaking hard. 1210 01:03:26,155 --> 01:03:29,165 It's hard. There's a lot of gut punches and, you know, 1211 01:03:29,165 --> 01:03:31,525 social media has made it any easier. , you know, 1212 01:03:32,335 --> 01:03:36,925 maybe one of the things that it hopefully forces you to do is believe in the 1213 01:03:36,925 --> 01:03:40,285 thing that you do, so that even when you're not getting called for the thing, 1214 01:03:40,285 --> 01:03:42,245 or, and I mean, the thing that social media does is, 1215 01:03:42,245 --> 01:03:44,645 and I know everybody feels this way, 1216 01:03:44,985 --> 01:03:47,565 is you see the thing that happened that you weren't called for. And you're like, 1217 01:03:47,565 --> 01:03:50,285 what the, but I did that for this person before, and they, 1218 01:03:50,315 --> 01:03:53,605 they loved everything about it. Now they didn't call me for this next thing, 1219 01:03:53,625 --> 01:03:57,205 and now I'm seeing it. You know, if I just had not known about it, 1220 01:03:57,205 --> 01:04:00,525 it wouldn't have mattered. But now I know. So, you know, and it hurts. It hurts. 1221 01:04:01,185 --> 01:04:04,045 So, and that, I don't think that that never goes away. 1222 01:04:04,345 --> 01:04:09,325 But what I think can help digest that pain is 1223 01:04:09,955 --> 01:04:14,285 knowing that you have a thing that people do love and do call you for, 1224 01:04:14,785 --> 01:04:17,605 and you can't account for everybody's actions or why their choices, 1225 01:04:17,615 --> 01:04:21,605 their decisions, why they decided to go with whoever they did on whatever. What, 1226 01:04:21,685 --> 01:04:25,165 I mean, it's not, at no point do I really feel it was like, huh, 1227 01:04:25,205 --> 01:04:28,365 I should call Nick for, no, I'm not gonna call Nick. 'cause you know, 1228 01:04:28,525 --> 01:04:32,245 I don't feel like that was, that's normally a part of the scenario. 1229 01:04:32,755 --> 01:04:36,085 It's more just like, I saw this guy, I'm gonna call this guy . 1230 01:04:36,185 --> 01:04:39,485 And that's what happens, you know? Sure. It's almost like that dog, 1231 01:04:39,485 --> 01:04:41,525 like squirrel, squirrel, , you know. 1232 01:04:41,735 --> 01:04:43,925 Think about Nashville, and maybe it's everywhere, 1233 01:04:44,065 --> 01:04:48,365 is if you're not in someone's immediate vision Yeah. They've, 1234 01:04:48,515 --> 01:04:49,765 it's not that they're forgetting, 1235 01:04:49,905 --> 01:04:54,685 but it's like you don't exist because they're worried about their own stuff 1236 01:04:54,775 --> 01:04:56,925 completely. So if you're not in front of them. 1237 01:04:57,245 --> 01:04:57,315 , 1238 01:04:57,315 --> 01:05:00,565 everybody's got their own things they're trying to fight through and make happen 1239 01:05:00,585 --> 01:05:02,885 to get out there and whatever the thing is. Yeah. You know, 1240 01:05:02,945 --> 01:05:07,205 and it's not to say that you then happen to run into him at the 1241 01:05:07,885 --> 01:05:11,285 wherever, restaurant market, blah, blah, blah, whatever. 1242 01:05:11,345 --> 01:05:14,485 And then you happen to get a call like a week later or time it's happened, 1243 01:05:14,505 --> 01:05:17,885 you know, that kind of thing. You fine. I keep getting your foot. You happen to, 1244 01:05:17,905 --> 01:05:21,725 you know, that's all it takes is, and that's the whole thing. Like, it, 1245 01:05:21,725 --> 01:05:24,325 it takes being out there, it takes doing the things, 1246 01:05:24,665 --> 01:05:29,525 not because you feel like the thing is going to lead to the next thing because 1247 01:05:29,585 --> 01:05:31,405 you love doing the thing. That's why you do it. 1248 01:05:31,425 --> 01:05:34,165 You continue to do it because you love it. And then as a result of that, 1249 01:05:35,995 --> 01:05:39,325 that at some points it leads to the next thing, you know? Mm-Hmm. . 1250 01:05:39,385 --> 01:05:41,845 But you can't account for it. You just have to keep doing it. 1251 01:05:41,865 --> 01:05:44,005 And if you don't love it, then just don't keep doing it. 1252 01:05:44,105 --> 01:05:48,685 Do some way better to do something else. And not, and nothing wrong with, 1253 01:05:48,805 --> 01:05:52,085 I know plenty of people that have left, I mean, geez, over covid, when, 1254 01:05:52,085 --> 01:05:56,165 when it was just like, well, you know, struggling, struggling along. 1255 01:05:56,265 --> 01:05:58,365 Or even just gotten to a point where it's like, 1256 01:05:58,405 --> 01:06:03,405 I don't know that I love this as much anymore. Covid was the great equalizer. 1257 01:06:03,785 --> 01:06:06,965 I'm just gonna wipe everything off the table now. If you still love it, 1258 01:06:06,965 --> 01:06:07,325 keep going. 1259 01:06:07,325 --> 01:06:10,045 But this is a great time to think about doing something else if that's what you 1260 01:06:10,045 --> 01:06:13,485 want to do. Mm-Hmm. . And I don't, I, 1261 01:06:13,765 --> 01:06:15,645 I couldn't blame anybody for saying, 1262 01:06:15,805 --> 01:06:17,405 I don't want to do this anymore because it's. 1263 01:06:17,405 --> 01:06:21,085 I've had so many friends quit and I Oh, tell me your secret. Yeah. 1264 01:06:21,085 --> 01:06:25,405 Because it is, it's, I wouldn't say it's quit, addiction isn't the right word, 1265 01:06:25,425 --> 01:06:30,405 but there's just something that's in me Mm-Hmm. that I can't not. 1266 01:06:30,905 --> 01:06:33,365 Do it. That's right. I feel the same way. Yeah. Yeah. 1267 01:06:33,385 --> 01:06:34,765 And I can't even put it, 1268 01:06:35,085 --> 01:06:38,245 I can't articulate what that is or you can't explain it to what I, 1269 01:06:38,545 --> 01:06:40,645 the civilians, they don't understand. Yeah. 1270 01:06:40,755 --> 01:06:42,685 Like why No, you're absolutely right. Why? That's right. 1271 01:06:43,205 --> 01:06:45,245 I do think it is a little bit of an addiction, but not, 1272 01:06:45,265 --> 01:06:48,405 but it's not a negative addiction. I, I think that there is, listen, 1273 01:06:48,525 --> 01:06:50,645 I think it would be negative if I 1274 01:06:52,205 --> 01:06:54,805 hadn't really done anything playing drums. 1275 01:06:54,925 --> 01:06:59,005 I just knew I loved playing drums and I was, you know, in debt and in whatever, 1276 01:06:59,005 --> 01:07:01,005 and it just wasn't doing anything. And there was a point, 1277 01:07:01,005 --> 01:07:04,325 there was a life responsibility point of, okay, 1278 01:07:04,325 --> 01:07:09,245 maybe this is not what I do as my thing, even if I love playing, you know, 1279 01:07:09,305 --> 01:07:14,165 and then you move into doing something else. I have been super fortunate. 1280 01:07:14,825 --> 01:07:18,365 And, and I do think, I mean, yes, it is hard work, but I love doing it. 1281 01:07:18,365 --> 01:07:22,445 So it doesn't seem as hard work. But I have constantly worked on my craft, 1282 01:07:23,505 --> 01:07:26,885 but I've also been very fortunate to have been in those positions. 1283 01:07:27,575 --> 01:07:29,765 Maybe because I've put myself there. I, you know, 1284 01:07:29,765 --> 01:07:33,565 maybe 'cause I had no problem making that call when it needed to be made, 1285 01:07:33,625 --> 01:07:38,005 or making that decision to do something different when that needed to be done. 1286 01:07:38,235 --> 01:07:41,205 Even at times where I felt like, okay, well the Taylor thing was huge. 1287 01:07:42,315 --> 01:07:46,765 This is gonna be a tough shadow to work out of, you know, well out from, 1288 01:07:46,885 --> 01:07:51,085 I should say, because it's so huge. Like, I mean, obviously she's so huge now, 1289 01:07:51,105 --> 01:07:54,245 but, but even on the Fearless record, by the time that, like, 1290 01:07:54,245 --> 01:07:58,125 the first record was big, the second record was really, really big. 1291 01:07:58,705 --> 01:07:59,885 And then it just went from there. 1292 01:08:00,305 --> 01:08:05,245 And I didn't want to have my career defined by playing on 1293 01:08:05,245 --> 01:08:08,765 those Taylor records. Like I'm, I'm a drummer that, 1294 01:08:08,865 --> 01:08:13,805 or I should say debatable musician , that I'm a drummer that, 1295 01:08:14,355 --> 01:08:17,805 that, that loves playing on all different kinds of music. And, 1296 01:08:18,305 --> 01:08:20,085 and the last thing I wanted was like, oh, 1297 01:08:20,085 --> 01:08:22,485 that's the guy that played on the Taylor Records. Like, yeah. 1298 01:08:22,485 --> 01:08:25,165 But I'm also the guy that can do all this other stuff. 1299 01:08:25,235 --> 01:08:27,965 Like when I'm playing with Kenny now live, 1300 01:08:28,315 --> 01:08:32,525 it's not at all the kind of stuff that's on the Taylor record. I mean, but. 1301 01:08:32,565 --> 01:08:36,525 I think even Taylor would say she's not the tailor that she was and, 1302 01:08:36,545 --> 01:08:40,005 and absolutely. Give her the opportunity to be all the tailors she wants to be. 1303 01:08:40,275 --> 01:08:42,085 Give Nick, thank goodness she Yeah, yeah. 1304 01:08:42,085 --> 01:08:44,925 Yeah. Give Nick all the opportunities to be all the Knicks that you have in you. 1305 01:08:44,985 --> 01:08:46,525 That's right. And same with Kenny and anyone. 1306 01:08:46,525 --> 01:08:48,085 Who's like, I think it's a lot harder as musicians though. 1307 01:08:48,205 --> 01:08:52,285 'cause we don't often get the opportunity to have all the stuff that we are 1308 01:08:52,425 --> 01:08:56,925 always out there at the top of the, the listening public. 1309 01:08:57,025 --> 01:08:59,645 You know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. Taylor, if she wants to do the, the, 1310 01:08:59,745 --> 01:09:03,805 the folklore record or then she wants to do another pop record, whatever it is, 1311 01:09:03,805 --> 01:09:06,005 is being heard by all the millions of her fans all the time. 1312 01:09:06,065 --> 01:09:10,285 So the fact that she gets to be all those things is awesome for her, 1313 01:09:10,345 --> 01:09:13,725 but also much easier Sure. For everybody else to see. Sure. 1314 01:09:13,875 --> 01:09:16,325 There's certain things that I love to do, uh, 1315 01:09:16,555 --> 01:09:19,045 musically that aren't just, 1316 01:09:19,045 --> 01:09:23,965 aren't going to be the thing that most people see. So therefore, if there's a, 1317 01:09:24,265 --> 01:09:26,365 if, if there's anybody that's saying, oh yeah, Nick, 1318 01:09:26,365 --> 01:09:29,365 that guy that played on those records, you know? Mm-Hmm. 1319 01:09:29,405 --> 01:09:31,845 the one cool thing about the Kenny thing now is that it's like, 1320 01:09:31,955 --> 01:09:32,505 okay, yeah. 1321 01:09:32,505 --> 01:09:37,365 But now you see there's this other big guy that I'm doing a completely 1322 01:09:37,365 --> 01:09:40,005 different thing for, you know? Sure. Like that's the, the, 1323 01:09:40,105 --> 01:09:44,285 the concerts are as big rock as, as any show I've played, 1324 01:09:44,385 --> 01:09:48,485 I'm hitting harder than any other time live that I've played with anybody. 1325 01:09:48,585 --> 01:09:52,005 And I've played with some pretty heavy rock bands. Kenny's stuff is like, 1326 01:09:52,005 --> 01:09:56,525 my hands are in shredded and my, I'm exhausted. And he rocks. He rocks stuff. 1327 01:09:56,525 --> 01:09:58,925 It's, yeah. It's really, really fun. Yeah. Uh, that's part, 1328 01:09:58,995 --> 01:10:01,125 part of what I love about it is the, it's. 1329 01:10:01,125 --> 01:10:03,485 Like Girth Brooks. Girth Brooks is a pretty rocket show. 1330 01:10:03,905 --> 01:10:05,765 He is. I mean, he is, but I seriously, 1331 01:10:05,765 --> 01:10:10,645 I don't know that it is Rock de Kenny on that, on that level. We are, I mean, 1332 01:10:11,215 --> 01:10:15,165 three electrics up front. Yeah. Good. Big rock. And I mean, I, I, uh, 1333 01:10:15,875 --> 01:10:19,805 part of the, the, um, challenge for me is the physical challenge. You know, 1334 01:10:20,155 --> 01:10:23,805 getting older. I'm just like, I have to kind of keep, keep it together and, 1335 01:10:23,985 --> 01:10:27,245 and work up to that stamina for those shows. Oh, yeah. Because it's the. 1336 01:10:27,245 --> 01:10:28,165 Endurance needed to be a. 1337 01:10:28,165 --> 01:10:29,845 Drummer. It's a thing. Yeah. You know, and it, 1338 01:10:29,865 --> 01:10:33,605 and playing gigs around town or even sessions doesn't require Yeah. 1339 01:10:33,605 --> 01:10:35,405 Nearly the same sort of thing. But, but it's, 1340 01:10:35,745 --> 01:10:38,245 that's what's part of the super fun part of it. You know. 1341 01:10:38,245 --> 01:10:42,605 It just a cue to a picture of you dressed like Rocky and instead of hitting the 1342 01:10:43,015 --> 01:10:44,805 sides of beef, you're just drumming on them. 1343 01:10:45,125 --> 01:10:46,885 the sides. That would be awesome. 1344 01:10:47,345 --> 01:10:51,365 See me training in like a meat locker with . Yeah. I should do that one. 1345 01:10:51,505 --> 01:10:53,605 That'd be a great little video. Shoot that hilarious. 1346 01:10:53,635 --> 01:10:57,285 Like with a headband on the whole out there. Exactly. Yeah. 1347 01:10:57,355 --> 01:10:58,805 Tell people how they may find you. 1348 01:10:59,115 --> 01:11:03,605 Instagram is the easiest way. Just my name Nick Buto, 1349 01:11:03,825 --> 01:11:06,485 and there's a silly little picture of me. I think, honestly, 1350 01:11:06,485 --> 01:11:07,685 that's honestly the easiest. 1351 01:11:07,925 --> 01:11:10,285 I don't really look at Facebook that much except for marketplace. 1352 01:11:10,285 --> 01:11:11,685 So if you have something to sell, sure. 1353 01:11:12,065 --> 01:11:15,895 And then obviously if I'm playing somewhere, come say hi. 1354 01:11:16,235 --> 01:11:19,695 Of course. And you do, do you So Nick Budda, that's. 1355 01:11:19,735 --> 01:11:23,815 B-U-D-A-B-U-D-A. Yeah. And, and, and my email's easy too. 1356 01:11:23,815 --> 01:11:26,015 It's just nick@nickbutta.com. Oh, there go. If anybody. 1357 01:11:26,015 --> 01:11:27,455 Wants to email me, go. So you have a website too? 1358 01:11:27,855 --> 01:11:31,375 I do have a website. I will say it is old and I am, I, you know what, 1359 01:11:31,805 --> 01:11:35,215 this fall it is getting updated. Okay. I'm the worst at that stuff. 1360 01:11:35,415 --> 01:11:38,055 'cause I just, it's like I want somebody to, 1361 01:11:38,255 --> 01:11:41,815 I want it to be up to date and I want it to have all this stuff, but I, I, 1362 01:11:42,895 --> 01:11:47,215 I don't care as much as I should about keeping all that information up updated. 1363 01:11:47,215 --> 01:11:50,415 That's why Instagram is so easy for me. 'cause it's like, I can have a picture, 1364 01:11:50,575 --> 01:11:53,415 I can post it and it's fine, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. I just, I'm not as, 1365 01:11:53,755 --> 01:11:56,575 I'm not as, not even that, I'm not as savvy about it. 1366 01:11:56,715 --> 01:12:00,015 My care is not at the place of making sure that everything's all aligned. 1367 01:12:00,375 --> 01:12:01,255 as it should be. 1368 01:12:01,915 --> 01:12:05,295 And maybe it's my age or maybe it's just me just not being that kind of person. 1369 01:12:05,435 --> 01:12:10,335 I'm not the most self haray character, 1370 01:12:10,555 --> 01:12:14,335 but, but that's okay. But I like meeting people. You're a drummer. 1371 01:12:14,635 --> 01:12:19,175 If anybody came up to a show and said, I heard the interview on the, Hey, 1372 01:12:19,175 --> 01:12:21,655 human thing with Susan, blah, blah, blah. I think that'd be, that's aw. 1373 01:12:21,895 --> 01:12:24,495 Whenever somebody comes up, got with a reference I love, I like, oh, 1374 01:12:24,495 --> 01:12:26,815 that's so cool that you heard this thing. 'cause Yeah. Yeah. 1375 01:12:27,205 --> 01:12:28,038 That would be awesome. 1376 01:12:28,205 --> 01:12:30,015 That is, that would be cool. Y'all have to let me know. 1377 01:12:30,215 --> 01:12:31,335 I, you know, I would. Yeah. 1378 01:12:31,695 --> 01:12:35,575 Absolutely. I'm, I'm so, uh, I think it's great. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. 1379 01:12:35,715 --> 01:12:38,095 I'm so glad that you have all these really wonderful, 1380 01:12:38,095 --> 01:12:39,175 I've known you a long time now. 1381 01:12:39,175 --> 01:12:40,575 Yeah. We've known each other a long time. Yeah. I, 1382 01:12:40,775 --> 01:12:42,335 I can't even think about how many years. Yeah. 1383 01:12:42,645 --> 01:12:45,855 Long time. So it is just, it's great. It's great. Awesome. 1384 01:12:45,965 --> 01:12:49,415 Yeah. Well, I'm so, honestly, when you asked me to do this, I, 1385 01:12:49,615 --> 01:12:52,375 I love this podcast. I love that. It's, 1386 01:12:52,735 --> 01:12:56,535 I love that it's not based on a specific, like a, like a, a, 1387 01:12:56,695 --> 01:13:00,655 a music focus or drum focus. It's, it's a person focus. And, and that's, 1388 01:13:00,675 --> 01:13:03,335 that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really cool. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 1389 01:13:03,475 --> 01:13:07,935 Thanks for listening everybody. Yeah. Bye. Bye. That was. 1390 01:13:07,935 --> 01:13:08,775 Great. Awesome. 1391 01:13:09,355 --> 01:13:10,188 You're the best. 1392 01:13:10,895 --> 01:13:11,728 . 1393 01:13:13,125 --> 01:13:14,855 Rate review and subscribe to Hey, 1394 01:13:14,855 --> 01:13:19,335 human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks. Bye.