1 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:10,680 Hey humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,000 Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey Human Podcast. 3 00:00:15,950 --> 00:00:20,200 This is episode 3 81, and I had a conversation with Amy Pylon. 4 00:00:20,860 --> 00:00:25,440 Amy is a true force. She's an activist and has fought for women, kids, 5 00:00:25,580 --> 00:00:28,400 public safety, and a woman's right to financial freedom. 6 00:00:29,090 --> 00:00:33,640 She's been a long haul trucker, beat cancer and lives with scoliosis. 7 00:00:34,540 --> 00:00:38,560 We discuss a lot of the groups that she was a part of, 8 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:40,400 activist groups from her youth. 9 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:44,680 Almost all of the groups we discussed in this episode are still going strong, 10 00:00:45,620 --> 00:00:48,440 and I've put information about them, uh, 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,080 in the links page on hey human podcast.com so you can dig in a little bit and 12 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,160 learn more. We discuss runaways. 13 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:58,840 We talk a lot about the work she did with runaways, 14 00:00:59,660 --> 00:01:04,440 and I got this information. So if you're in trouble or need help, 15 00:01:04,980 --> 00:01:07,240 you can text the word safe, s a f e, 16 00:01:07,620 --> 00:01:10,560 and your current location to 6 9 8, 6, 6, 17 00:01:11,180 --> 00:01:14,200 and you'll get a text back with the address of the nearest Safe Place, 18 00:01:14,310 --> 00:01:19,160 site and contact number for your local youth shelter or whatever's 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,160 near to you or nearest to you. 20 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:24,560 This is a United States number, 21 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:29,840 so I don't know what every other country has in terms of 22 00:01:30,450 --> 00:01:34,400 protecting their youth and runaways and that sort of situation, 23 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:38,520 but I know that those groups are out there. So if you need help, 24 00:01:38,660 --> 00:01:41,920 please seek help. If you know somebody that needs help, 25 00:01:42,380 --> 00:01:47,200 please help them seek help. A trigger warning. On this episode, 26 00:01:47,260 --> 00:01:50,920 we talk about sexual abuse and domestic violence. 27 00:01:52,850 --> 00:01:54,800 Amy's lived a fascinating life, 28 00:01:55,660 --> 00:02:00,280 and this is a really good episode in my humble opinion. Very interesting. 29 00:02:00,490 --> 00:02:03,560 She's really an intriguing human. 30 00:02:05,050 --> 00:02:07,600 Check out, Hey, human podcast.com for links, 31 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,800 and to learn more about my guests and the show, as I mentioned, 32 00:02:11,570 --> 00:02:15,920 check out Susan ruth.com to learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, 33 00:02:16,340 --> 00:02:20,080 follow Susan Ruth. And hey, human podcast on social media. 34 00:02:21,020 --> 00:02:21,960 If you're into music, 35 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,840 I have a bunch of records and you can find my music everywhere. 36 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,800 You find music these days, or it's pretty much everywhere. 37 00:02:29,670 --> 00:02:31,480 Rate review and subscribe to, Hey, 38 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,560 human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. It's really helpful. 39 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:38,760 Please take a couple minutes to rate and review. Uh, 40 00:02:38,860 --> 00:02:43,000 it really makes a difference in the algorithm. Thank you for listening. 41 00:02:43,540 --> 00:02:48,400 Be well, be kind, be love, and take care of each other. 42 00:02:49,390 --> 00:02:53,520 Here we go. Amy Pollen, welcome to Hey, human. 43 00:02:54,330 --> 00:02:55,163 Thank you. 44 00:02:56,250 --> 00:02:57,180 It's nice to see you. 45 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,553 You too dear. 46 00:02:59,070 --> 00:03:02,480 I've known you a very long time as you're one of my mother's besties. 47 00:03:03,380 --> 00:03:07,040 Yes. I'm amazed. Let's see, when did I meet your mother? 48 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,880 I think shortly after we moved here in 97. 49 00:03:12,970 --> 00:03:15,140 Yeah, a good long time. Feels. 50 00:03:15,140 --> 00:03:16,460 Like a million years ago. It's a. 51 00:03:16,460 --> 00:03:17,740 Good friend to have dear. 52 00:03:18,660 --> 00:03:19,900 A long, a long-term one. 53 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,060 Yes. 54 00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:23,580 . Yeah, for sure. Tell me where you grew up. 55 00:03:24,420 --> 00:03:27,060 I grew up, uh, in Renton, Washington. 56 00:03:28,910 --> 00:03:32,850 Not far from here. Uh, what is that? Considered a, 57 00:03:33,330 --> 00:03:36,170 a sub suburb of Seattle. Yeah. 58 00:03:37,370 --> 00:03:39,470 Did you have a big family growing up? Little family? 59 00:03:39,930 --> 00:03:43,190 No, small. My mom, dad, and my brother and I, 60 00:03:44,010 --> 00:03:46,470 one uncle on my mother's side. 61 00:03:47,210 --> 00:03:49,510 He and my aunt were like grandparents. 62 00:03:49,620 --> 00:03:51,630 They were 20 some years older than my mother. 63 00:03:52,850 --> 00:03:57,390 And then my dad had a tribe of siblings, but I didn't know them. 64 00:03:57,390 --> 00:03:58,550 They were all in New York. 65 00:03:59,460 --> 00:04:02,560 Did you have a close family growing up? Were were all of you pretty tight? 66 00:04:03,310 --> 00:04:07,440 Yeah. Until I became a teenager, we were, we were. Okay. . 67 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:09,160 Teenage years are tough. 68 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:10,583 Yeah, they are. 69 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:15,560 You have a very interesting story. You've been a lot of things, 70 00:04:16,700 --> 00:04:19,400 but I know that at the beginning, at least I think, 71 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,160 I know you were an activist. 72 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:27,840 Yes. Been an activist probably since the early sixties 73 00:04:27,990 --> 00:04:32,480 when I worked on the Kennedy campaign while I was in school. Yeah. 74 00:04:33,230 --> 00:04:36,040 Well, let's talk a little bit about that. What drew you into that? 75 00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:39,760 Was it something that was talked about a lot in your family or was that 76 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:40,140 something. 77 00:04:40,140 --> 00:04:44,680 No, no. My family was pretty Republican, . Um, 78 00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:47,160 I've always felt 79 00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:52,520 the heaviness of people being treated unfairly, 80 00:04:54,020 --> 00:04:58,970 and that's irritated me since I was really young and I don't 81 00:04:58,970 --> 00:05:03,970 know why I focused there, but I always have. Um, 82 00:05:04,590 --> 00:05:08,650 and most of my activism has been because people were being 83 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,450 treated unfairly. 84 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,130 What was it like to work on the Kennedy campaign? 85 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:18,810 Well, that was simple. I mean, not small town stuff, envelopes, you know, 86 00:05:18,870 --> 00:05:22,930 you never met anybody. Well, I met Governor Rosaline. 87 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,250 That was a big deal Then. 88 00:05:24,710 --> 00:05:29,210 It wasn't political in the sense of being like a political training. 89 00:05:30,210 --> 00:05:33,970 I think real politics probably was 90 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:39,930 later on when I got involved in the McGovern campaign and went 91 00:05:40,150 --> 00:05:44,330 as far as a county representative, not just a district, 92 00:05:44,350 --> 00:05:49,040 but county and, um, and that I, 93 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,040 I learned about politics or at least the Democratic party and 94 00:05:54,060 --> 00:05:55,960 how things were done with it. 95 00:05:56,740 --> 00:05:58,760 And what'd you think of that, of what you learned. 96 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,640 ? Oh, I thought it was wonderful. 97 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:06,160 I thought it was just amazing that people could change things. 98 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,880 Yeah. That you could get a group together and do something. 99 00:06:12,700 --> 00:06:17,440 And so that's pretty much how I led my life up until, um, 100 00:06:18,580 --> 00:06:23,240 the eighties was gathering groups of people together and, um, 101 00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:28,320 being pretty much a community activist without the title. Yeah. . 102 00:06:29,580 --> 00:06:32,720 And you were involved in women's rights From an early age. 103 00:06:33,550 --> 00:06:38,100 When I got my divorce and I was living out in the woods, 104 00:06:38,150 --> 00:06:41,380 built a house out in the woods on Hood Canal, 105 00:06:42,460 --> 00:06:47,380 I moved into Tacoma because a group of women wanted me to help 106 00:06:47,380 --> 00:06:50,740 them, uh, set up a battered women's shelter. 107 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,540 And there wasn't one yet on the West Coast. And so we did that. 108 00:06:55,550 --> 00:06:59,420 Eight of us did that, which is pretty amazing. When I look back on it, I mean, 109 00:06:59,750 --> 00:07:04,240 eight of us sent out the mailers to the doctors and the everybody, 110 00:07:04,660 --> 00:07:09,600 and got the information we needed and basically took over the second floor of 111 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,720 the y set up a women, 112 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,320 a battered women's shelter and ran it through the human rights division in 113 00:07:16,460 --> 00:07:17,293 Tacoma. 114 00:07:18,190 --> 00:07:22,840 They hooked me up with some women who were starting to starting to try and start 115 00:07:22,860 --> 00:07:26,160 the battered women's shelter. And in that group of, 116 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,360 I think there were 10 or 12 of us to start, there were eight of us finally. 117 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,320 I was the only one that had been battered. 118 00:07:33,780 --> 00:07:38,480 So my experience was necessary or at least 119 00:07:38,630 --> 00:07:41,480 very well received. And, um, 120 00:07:43,220 --> 00:07:45,770 we were amazed by 121 00:07:47,390 --> 00:07:48,930 all the stuff that was going on, 122 00:07:49,030 --> 00:07:51,850 but the fact that we weren't connected to any of it. 123 00:07:52,990 --> 00:07:55,650 And so I went to a conference. 124 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,610 What, what do you mean by all this stuff going on? 125 00:07:57,700 --> 00:08:00,890 Women were doing things all over everywhere, 126 00:08:01,350 --> 00:08:03,650 but nobody was connected to anybody else. 127 00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:09,090 And so once the shelter got going in an attempt 128 00:08:09,750 --> 00:08:12,320 to network, 129 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,920 I went to a conference in Arcadia, 130 00:08:15,930 --> 00:08:19,560 California to just network some of us. 131 00:08:20,140 --> 00:08:21,560 So that for me, it was, 132 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,760 I had battered women in their children occasionally living in my basement 133 00:08:25,870 --> 00:08:30,070 because the shelter wasn't safe. And there, 134 00:08:30,180 --> 00:08:31,390 through that network, 135 00:08:31,750 --> 00:08:36,420 I could move them to another place and then they could move them. 136 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,020 You know, we didn't have to know where, thank goodness, 137 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,100 but we could underground railroad them out of the area and give them 138 00:08:44,330 --> 00:08:49,140 some safety. I met a woman there named Raven Freed Woman, 139 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:54,420 and that instigated my name change . So I went to court, 140 00:08:54,740 --> 00:08:57,680 I had to get a lawyer, I had to go to court to change my name, 141 00:08:58,620 --> 00:09:03,240 and the judge said I had to have the letters from my children, 142 00:09:03,890 --> 00:09:08,680 which was, you know, ridiculous. But I brought them in. 143 00:09:08,870 --> 00:09:13,840 Both of them wrote letters, Matthew, with me holding a hammer, yelling, . 144 00:09:14,030 --> 00:09:19,030 Alright. Uh, they said they were gonna keep calling me mom. 145 00:09:19,410 --> 00:09:24,040 It didn't matter. , of course it didn't, you know, , 146 00:09:24,620 --> 00:09:28,120 I'm still mom to both of them and the judge. Mm-hmm. . 147 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:29,880 I finally told him that I, 148 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,400 I just didn't want my father's name and I didn't 149 00:09:35,030 --> 00:09:36,400 want my ex's name. 150 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:42,440 So the only names appropriate for me would be one I chose myself. Mm-hmm. 151 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,510 . I think what, what jittered them was, 152 00:09:45,590 --> 00:09:50,350 I changed my first name too, which people don't usually do, but hey, 153 00:09:51,690 --> 00:09:53,390 so that, but I got my name changed. 154 00:09:53,850 --> 00:09:56,190 As a battered woman yourself. Uh mm-hmm. , 155 00:09:56,190 --> 00:09:59,470 did you have trouble getting away or did, 156 00:09:59,650 --> 00:10:03,710 did you need services like the kind that you and that you eventually created? 157 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:06,430 When I tried to get away, 158 00:10:08,630 --> 00:10:12,710 I was being chased one night from my work, 159 00:10:14,290 --> 00:10:19,010 and I encountered a police person 160 00:10:20,660 --> 00:10:24,880 and that person said to me, I can't help you until the bullet leaves the gun. 161 00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:29,770 And I thought, oh, that's interesting. 162 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:35,290 I have got to go and hide. Which I did, I hid. And, uh, 163 00:10:37,150 --> 00:10:37,983 it was not 164 00:10:39,570 --> 00:10:43,520 until that relationship was at the point where he finally took interest in 165 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,880 somebody else. I was in danger all the time and I knew it. 166 00:10:48,460 --> 00:10:53,390 And that's a hell of a way to live. Yeah. So, 167 00:10:53,610 --> 00:10:54,443 um, 168 00:10:54,860 --> 00:10:58,750 then I was hired by another group to do a runaway shelter for kids. 169 00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:02,710 So we did that. But the battered women's shelter was, it was a big deal. 170 00:11:02,770 --> 00:11:03,950 It was scary at times. 171 00:11:04,330 --> 00:11:08,590 It was a lot of networking with Oregon and California 172 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,670 facilities so that we could move women away if we needed 173 00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:16,910 to. And, uh, yeah, I mean, 174 00:11:17,610 --> 00:11:22,430 it wasn't always pleasant because men would find out where we were and be very 175 00:11:22,670 --> 00:11:27,070 threatening and nasty and Yeah. But we were young, you know, 176 00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:28,790 thought you could live forever. . 177 00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:33,110 Did you have personally, did you have confrontations with. 178 00:11:33,330 --> 00:11:35,990 Oh yeah. Some guy took a chain to me once, 179 00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:38,710 thought he was gonna beat me with a chain, 180 00:11:38,730 --> 00:11:43,070 and another one threatened me with a knife. I, how dare I take their woman away? 181 00:11:43,250 --> 00:11:44,870 You . I didn't buddy. 182 00:11:45,570 --> 00:11:50,170 She took herself away for damn good reason. Thank you. 183 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:52,580 In that experience, 184 00:11:52,820 --> 00:11:57,680 I met some really wonderful people in Tacoma that were part of a group called 185 00:11:57,700 --> 00:12:02,480 the Shelter Half and very political and helped the, um, 186 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,240 pu Puyallup tribe take over a medical facility. I mean, we just had fun. 187 00:12:07,340 --> 00:12:10,080 We thought we were, you know, great, uh, 188 00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:14,960 friends of mine that went to California got pretty deep into the 189 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:19,760 George Jackson brigade, which was scary stuff. And 190 00:12:21,540 --> 00:12:26,510 one weekend we were out in McClary and we were doing 191 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,510 rifle practice and I said, what the hell am I doing? I have two kids, 192 00:12:31,790 --> 00:12:36,230 I can't do this. And a young man and woman I was with, 193 00:12:36,970 --> 00:12:41,590 she said, don't worry, somebody will always take care of your kids. And I said, 194 00:12:41,610 --> 00:12:45,350 but I want that somebody to be me. And so I left, 195 00:12:45,830 --> 00:12:50,110 I became disengaged at that point. Things had gotten too creepy. 196 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,140 Can you talk about what that brigade was? 197 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,820 The George Jackson Brigade, 198 00:12:55,820 --> 00:13:00,700 that was a group of women from the shelter half in Tacoma who went to California 199 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:06,430 and were helping George Jackson and ended up killing somebody in a 200 00:13:06,430 --> 00:13:08,550 courtroom that had nothing to do with me, 201 00:13:09,130 --> 00:13:13,670 but it was frightening to be connected in a way that I knew who did what to whom 202 00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:19,350 it was time not to be connected. F b I came to me because of a, uh, 203 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:23,040 an address book that had been found in a safe house. 204 00:13:25,130 --> 00:13:29,390 And my name happened to be in that book with a lot of other people 205 00:13:30,130 --> 00:13:33,750 and all, all that the call I got at one in the morning said, 206 00:13:33,930 --> 00:13:37,070 da da da so-and-so's address book has been found. 207 00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:41,670 If there's anything you don't want people to know, take care of it now. 208 00:13:43,870 --> 00:13:46,010 So somewhere out on Hood Canal, 209 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,850 there's an address book in a Can in the ground . 210 00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:55,450 I thought, oh, okay, well I don't want anybody to know anything. So . 211 00:13:55,870 --> 00:14:00,210 I'm curious why the government or why the F b I wouldn't want safe houses 212 00:14:00,470 --> 00:14:03,650 around. Was it because they were getting more aggressive? 213 00:14:03,650 --> 00:14:07,490 This wasn't an F B I safe house. This was one of our safe houses. 214 00:14:07,830 --> 00:14:09,130 Oh no, I know, I know. 215 00:14:09,150 --> 00:14:13,930 But I'm curious why a safe house in theory is 216 00:14:14,050 --> 00:14:16,970 a good thing. Why would the F B I be involved? 217 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,810 They were trying to gather up women that they could 218 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,430 take to court and make us talk. 219 00:14:26,580 --> 00:14:29,600 So what I was told was, when you talk, 220 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:34,720 you don't know who you know or what time you were with whom or who 221 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,680 you might connect to, to what. 222 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:42,000 So if you're called into this grand jury, don't say anything, 223 00:14:42,860 --> 00:14:46,650 which is great, except if you don't say anything, you go to jail , 224 00:14:47,150 --> 00:14:51,600 but you only go to jail for until they dis the grand jury. So I guess. 225 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:51,940 What, 226 00:14:51,940 --> 00:14:56,320 I'm just confused as to what it was about this particular group that had the F B 227 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,200 I snooping around. It. 228 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,160 Was the, it was the George Jackson Women in California. Okay. 229 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:03,240 Was that connection? Yeah. Got it. 230 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:07,000 So they never called me to grand jury, 231 00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:11,840 but the threat was there and my parents were interviewed 232 00:15:12,260 --> 00:15:16,400 and I just thought, I, this is not what I signed up for. 233 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,720 I signed up to help people. So, 234 00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:24,520 and I didn't sign up, like sign up on a line. Having. 235 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,760 Those experiences at such a young age, 236 00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:30,720 what did that teach you about the world at large? 237 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:36,400 Well, I married early and I was battered in that relationship, 238 00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:39,440 so I knew why I was there. Um, 239 00:15:39,860 --> 00:15:44,440 the other women were all different ages and from all different walks of life. 240 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:45,533 So. 241 00:15:45,790 --> 00:15:50,680 What was the emotional toll of having to be a support system for 242 00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:53,360 so many people? I mean, that must've taken a toll, 243 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,120 especially given you likely had P T S D from your own. 244 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,560 Experiences. Yeah, I think, 245 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,720 I think what started to take a toll on me was just that it seemed 246 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,640 like every other month or week or whenever there's a problem, 247 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:11,000 an insurmountable problem. What. 248 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,520 Did you find was the number one reason kids were running away? 249 00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:20,110 Uh, kind of an even split, 250 00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:24,990 I think from between just a lot of family discourse 251 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,060 going on and a lot of puberty stuff going on, 252 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,900 you know, the normal stuff. And, um, 253 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,660 the other half sexual abuse, 254 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,780 sexual abuse is so much more prevalent than people realize or wanna admit. 255 00:16:43,260 --> 00:16:46,140 I have yet to meet a woman my age who wasn't abused. 256 00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:52,630 I'd love to, but I haven't. Um, and I, and I assume same. 257 00:16:52,630 --> 00:16:54,470 Same with my generation. I've yet to. 258 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:56,070 Yeah, I assume it's still there. 259 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:59,790 Yeah, I would say probably seven out of 10, probably T. 260 00:16:59,790 --> 00:17:03,630 Grace Atkinson came out to Tacoma to, uh, 261 00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:09,550 talk to a group of us at the time that she and other women were trying to put 262 00:17:09,710 --> 00:17:14,350 together MS. Magazine. And at that time they said that, 263 00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:15,790 and I so believe this, 264 00:17:15,790 --> 00:17:20,350 that the socialization of American women is sexual abuse. 265 00:17:20,930 --> 00:17:24,990 And it happens before the age of 18 by someone, 266 00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:28,650 family member leader, 267 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,600 religious person, whatever. 268 00:17:34,330 --> 00:17:35,163 Coach. 269 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:40,070 A person in a position of trust. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, 270 00:17:41,370 --> 00:17:46,090 but unfortunately it's still going on, you know, 271 00:17:46,190 --> 00:17:49,600 and I think that's that whole rape bullshit. It's like, 272 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,850 don't look at who's doing this. How come a 10 year old is pregnant? 273 00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:59,930 You know, just stop her from getting an abortion. 274 00:18:01,610 --> 00:18:05,610 I don't see those guys that are voting for that lining up at the adoption 275 00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:08,290 agency, taking care of these kids. 276 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,330 That is a big issue for sure. And I think the thing that frustrates me with, 277 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:18,650 look, I'm all for people to end pedophilia. It's important, however, 278 00:18:19,460 --> 00:18:21,730 start with your own backyard is my thing. 279 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,290 Yeah, please. Mm-hmm. 280 00:18:24,330 --> 00:18:25,163 . 281 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:30,470 Yes, because one in three of us are abused. 282 00:18:30,650 --> 00:18:31,270 That's what. 283 00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:34,310 And those, that's those who have reported. So it's probably higher. Yeah. 284 00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:35,070 And that's. 285 00:18:35,070 --> 00:18:38,310 Probably higher. The worst thing was not being believed. 286 00:18:39,050 --> 00:18:41,550 You're not believed. You know, I, 287 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:46,350 I got sick of yelling about my father and I just left. 288 00:18:47,310 --> 00:18:52,110 I was working and taking care of myself at 15 to help with them. Well, 289 00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:56,830 you could do that then. You, it's almost impossible to do that now. 290 00:18:57,330 --> 00:18:58,830 Why do you think your mom wouldn't believe you? 291 00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:02,080 She was terrified to be alone. 292 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:05,670 Her mother died when she was four. 293 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,140 She was absolutely terrified to be alone. 294 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,860 She stayed with him until he passed away when he was 82. 295 00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:18,350 I forgave him in my fifties. 296 00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:23,060 I wanted my mother in my life. So. 297 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,780 Did he ever acknowledge what he had done? 298 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,990 Yes. Yeah. 299 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,520 'cause I remember my mother absolutely beating on his chest and saying, 300 00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:39,880 you denied me, my daughter. I mean, you know, by then what are you gonna do? 301 00:19:39,980 --> 00:19:42,680 I'm in my fifties . But yeah. 302 00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:45,760 Yeah. Wow. That's very powerful. 303 00:19:46,690 --> 00:19:48,320 Being able to forgive 304 00:19:49,820 --> 00:19:53,960 is so good because it was for me, it wasn't for him. I could care less, 305 00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:58,590 you know, to be very honest. But, uh, 306 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,630 being able to forgive him took that off of me. That heavy duty, 307 00:20:03,730 --> 00:20:06,390 hatred, anger, whatever. I mean, 308 00:20:06,550 --> 00:20:10,310 it probably was why I was so good at organizing and being angry. 309 00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:15,310 in my younger years, thank goodness I put it in a good place. 310 00:20:15,450 --> 00:20:16,310 Not a bad place, 311 00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:21,360 but that anger has to go somewhere and usually women destroy 312 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:22,400 themselves with it. 313 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:26,960 Did you have complicated feelings when he died? 314 00:20:28,090 --> 00:20:32,820 No, not at all. I knew my mother was well taken care of. 315 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:36,353 I was fine. 316 00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:41,050 You were responsible or certainly had a big hand in 317 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,290 getting women the right to have credit cards? 318 00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:49,480 Oh yeah. , I sued, actually. I sued, 319 00:20:50,060 --> 00:20:54,640 uh, the phone company and I sued the electric company 320 00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:58,520 in the place I lived in, uh, 321 00:20:58,770 --> 00:21:03,200 which was Kitsap County at that time in western 322 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,033 Washington. 323 00:21:05,020 --> 00:21:08,480 The Office of Human Relations in Tacoma, 324 00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:11,600 which was the biggest metropolitan area near me. 325 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,080 I was upset because, uh, 326 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:17,920 I had recently divorced, 327 00:21:18,540 --> 00:21:23,200 but the whole time I'd been married and before I had always paid bills on 328 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,200 time. I, you know, worked at Boeing, I did my thing, paid my taxes. 329 00:21:29,020 --> 00:21:33,680 And they told me because my husband wasn't there anymore, 330 00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:38,000 that even though everything had been in our, both our names, 331 00:21:38,550 --> 00:21:43,040 that I had to start over if I wanted credit. And I said, 332 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,240 that's just not fair all these years. And suddenly I have no credit. 333 00:21:48,150 --> 00:21:51,880 Give me a break. I was really pissed. And what. 334 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,400 Happened when you went up against the credit card companies? 335 00:21:55,460 --> 00:21:56,880 Oh, they were not happy at all. 336 00:21:58,270 --> 00:22:01,490 But they had to deal with the city of Tacoma, not me. 337 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,170 They were accused of being, um, discriminatory, 338 00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:12,250 which they were. So it changed everything for women in the state. 339 00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:14,450 But, you know, I, 340 00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:18,490 I wasn't really aware of that as much as I was aware of it changed it for me. 341 00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:23,320 I got credit and I felt I deserved it, 342 00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:27,040 but it did change it in the state. Um, 343 00:22:27,370 --> 00:22:31,320 other companies slowly came online and, you know, 344 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,880 there's no reason when you divorce that you shouldn't have credit for what you 345 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,560 did. , we bump up against these walls all the time. 346 00:22:38,780 --> 00:22:43,440 I'm still bumping against walls. I can't believe it this many years later. 347 00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:45,920 They keep building the walls taller. 348 00:22:46,460 --> 00:22:47,960 Taller and tougher. Yeah. 349 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,900 At the time that all of that was happening, 350 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:56,990 I was working to stop the nuclear plants from 351 00:22:56,990 --> 00:23:00,590 being built on an earthquake fault in my state. 352 00:23:02,010 --> 00:23:05,830 And uh, and because of the way I was raised, 353 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,960 I thought that they were gonna bankrupt public power. 354 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,920 I thought that's what that whole thing was about. 355 00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:19,760 And they had overruns to the point where it kind of looked like that might 356 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,680 happen. And so I was really pleased when we stopped them. 357 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:28,030 The whole whoops. Project got stopped. 358 00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:31,910 I don't believe in any kind of power that you don't know what the hell to do 359 00:23:31,910 --> 00:23:36,750 with the waste. And, and that was my whole thing. You know, 360 00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:40,350 it might be great power, but the waste is awful. 361 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:42,493 So . 362 00:23:42,790 --> 00:23:45,350 Well all these decades later, they still don't know what to do to do with the, 363 00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:45,750 they don't. 364 00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:47,520 Know what to do with the waste. Yeah. You dunno. 365 00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:52,280 And unfortunately it goes to the wrong people a lot of time as well. 366 00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:56,040 And you have to make the waste in order to make nuclear bombs. 367 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,890 You can't have them without the waste. So duh . 368 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,920 Yeah. From there I just, you know, 369 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,360 helped organize Gray Panthers and uh, uh, what's. 370 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:12,193 The Gray Panthers? 371 00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:13,520 It was a, 372 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,400 a people being very progressive in their seventies and eighties like I 373 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,120 am now in Tacoma. 374 00:24:21,150 --> 00:24:24,160 Just a group of older people that wanted to do stuff. 375 00:24:24,340 --> 00:24:25,760 Do the Gray Panthers still exist? 376 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,480 I don't know if they do in Tacoma anymore. In fact, 377 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:34,000 I don't know if the organization still exists. It might. Um, 378 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,440 I did that until my Vista volunteering ended and 379 00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:45,090 when Reagan came into office, everything stopped. I mean, 380 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,570 basically they got rid of all the social work that was being done that was good, 381 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,330 that was being supported. 382 00:24:53,030 --> 00:24:57,330 And I lost the entire staff at the runaway shelter 383 00:24:58,030 --> 00:24:58,863 in a week. 384 00:25:00,350 --> 00:25:05,180 And I couldn't run the shelter without a male and female counselor on 385 00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:08,900 staff at all times. So we shut down, you know. 386 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,590 All those programs across the board just really did take 387 00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:15,790 its toll on this country. 388 00:25:16,650 --> 00:25:20,590 It has for 40 years. Yeah. You know, the whole, 389 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,630 everything changed. Everything was trickled down, which is bullshit. 390 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:26,310 Everything changed. 391 00:25:26,690 --> 00:25:31,190 And so many wonderful programs just were 392 00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:36,110 decimated ended period. Like mine, like the runaway shelter is just gone. 393 00:25:37,690 --> 00:25:39,590 And I said, to heck with this. 394 00:25:39,890 --> 00:25:44,710 And went to my parents who just retired and said, I have to do something. 395 00:25:45,170 --> 00:25:47,470 No, I have to support my kids. What am I gonna do? 396 00:25:48,170 --> 00:25:50,350 And I ended up driving a truck. 397 00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:55,430 I was fortunate I could get a good truck and a good trailer 398 00:25:56,290 --> 00:26:00,750 and haul frozen or fresh up and down I five. 399 00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:06,870 And I just wanted to do something that didn't mean I had to make people. 400 00:26:06,980 --> 00:26:11,190 Well, you know, , I could not listen to problems for a while. 401 00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:13,590 And I think I needed that. 402 00:26:14,110 --> 00:26:18,750 I needed that kind of a healthy break just to see the real world out there. 403 00:26:19,690 --> 00:26:20,590 And you know, 404 00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:25,390 I only got threatened I think once or twice while I was trucking. So, 405 00:26:26,290 --> 00:26:30,230 uh, there weren't many women out there when I started in the early eighties. 406 00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:33,550 So things are different. Nicely different now. 407 00:26:33,850 --> 00:26:38,070 But if I hadn't gotten ill, I'd probably still be doing it. I mean, 408 00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:42,390 it's really tough on your body 409 00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:47,680 because you know, you're bouncing all the time. 410 00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:52,920 You're and I jumping in and out of a trailer and moving 411 00:26:52,940 --> 00:26:56,920 35 pound boxes, et cetera. 412 00:26:58,180 --> 00:27:02,280 But it was fun to get around just everyday people, you know. 413 00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:06,250 Um, most of what I did was food. 414 00:27:07,370 --> 00:27:08,990 You feel good about hauling food? 415 00:27:10,150 --> 00:27:14,750 I didn't have to haul chemicals or do you know, I had a refrigerated trailer, 416 00:27:15,250 --> 00:27:17,310 so the best use of that is food. 417 00:27:18,330 --> 00:27:23,150 So mostly I took frozen down to LA called people 418 00:27:23,170 --> 00:27:27,590 in LA love french fries. They absolutely love french fries. 419 00:27:28,570 --> 00:27:33,150 And people that then from coming back from LA I'd go through the San 420 00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:37,560 Fernando Valley and pick up fresh. So it was like frozen down, 421 00:27:37,690 --> 00:27:40,040 fresh back, back and forth. 422 00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:45,640 Mostly once I did a tour all around the country that was 423 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,720 . I went from Sandpoint, 424 00:27:50,050 --> 00:27:54,640 Idaho to Fall River Massachusetts to Delaware to 425 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,560 Arkansas, back to California and back up. 426 00:27:58,660 --> 00:28:02,880 And I told the dispatcher I never leave I five again. 427 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,640 back east, the roads were so horrible. 428 00:28:07,660 --> 00:28:11,160 I'd get outta my rig at night and have to tighten everything up. I mean, 429 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,000 it was just awful. I don't know how people truck back there. 430 00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:21,890 And then truckers from back there would come out here and we'd have to talk 'em 431 00:28:21,890 --> 00:28:26,370 off the mountains 'cause they didn't have equipment to drive on our mountains, 432 00:28:26,550 --> 00:28:29,690 you know, . Anyway, it was very, 433 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,490 very interesting and mostly okay. I mean, 434 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,250 once in Denver, a bunch of guys were gonna get nasty with me. 435 00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:44,450 And when I, I got on the CB and said, you know, okay, 436 00:28:44,530 --> 00:28:48,650 I just won't go in and get a meal in a shower. I'm not up for a fight. 437 00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:52,530 And then I heard some heavy, 438 00:28:53,290 --> 00:28:55,090 probably black voices say, Hey, 439 00:28:55,140 --> 00:29:00,080 we've been through this before and we don't need to go through this again 440 00:29:00,140 --> 00:29:04,890 now with women. So everything got calmed down somehow. 441 00:29:05,070 --> 00:29:07,290 And I went in and got a meal in a shower. I mean, 442 00:29:07,610 --> 00:29:11,250 I never wanted much more than that. I, one time, one time in Modesto, 443 00:29:12,090 --> 00:29:16,810 I go in and I pay the women woman $400 for my fuel 444 00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:21,050 and ask if I can have a towel and the key to the shower. And she said, 445 00:29:21,710 --> 00:29:25,270 you're not a trucker and . I said, 446 00:29:25,770 --> 00:29:29,390 why the hell do you think I put that $400 worth of fuel ? 447 00:29:30,170 --> 00:29:34,550 Did you experience a whole lot of sexism along the way or even more? 448 00:29:35,070 --> 00:29:39,830 Probably more than I care to admit. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, what you gonna do? 449 00:29:40,420 --> 00:29:42,280 Yeah. You just keep trucking along. 450 00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:43,453 Why were they mad? 451 00:29:43,470 --> 00:29:46,840 That I would think they'd be excited to have women in the ranks. 452 00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:48,343 Most 453 00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:52,980 most women that were excited were women in cars. 454 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,100 Not women in the ranks. There weren't any women in the ranks. 455 00:29:58,750 --> 00:30:03,450 And anytime you're a woman in the ranks, that's mostly men or all men. 456 00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:08,810 There are, there are a few that get threatened. 457 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,890 It's like somehow you're gonna take something away from them. 458 00:30:13,220 --> 00:30:17,170 Never figured out what the hell it was. You know? I mean, they're mad. 459 00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:21,530 I'm not driving a truck like theirs. I'm not hauling what they're hauling, 460 00:30:21,790 --> 00:30:24,850 but they're mad at me. I know those egos are just. 461 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,490 It's weird how fragile they are. Yeah. Yeah. 462 00:30:28,410 --> 00:30:29,243 . 463 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:31,930 How old were you when you were doing the trucking? 464 00:30:32,430 --> 00:30:33,970 Let me see. I started in 465 00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:38,150 80, 79, 80. 466 00:30:39,290 --> 00:30:41,430 So I'm trying to figure out, let's see, 467 00:30:42,010 --> 00:30:45,590 in 74 I would've been 34. 468 00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:48,870 So in mid to late thirties 469 00:30:50,540 --> 00:30:53,380 I was 40 when I got cancer and quit driving. 470 00:30:54,740 --> 00:30:56,240 And what kind of cancer did you get? 471 00:30:56,790 --> 00:30:59,720 Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Yeah. 472 00:31:00,150 --> 00:31:02,080 That kind of flattened me for a bit. 473 00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:06,440 Did you have cancer in your family or were you the first one to get cancer? 474 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:07,993 I was the first, 475 00:31:09,550 --> 00:31:14,290 and my dad got cancer in his seventies. But lung cancer, 476 00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:16,970 he smoked for years and years and years. So, 477 00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:21,850 and then he refused to wear a mask when he did all the woodworking that he did. 478 00:31:22,990 --> 00:31:26,130 So he, you know, sawdust got him more than I think smoke. 479 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:27,560 Mm-hmm. 480 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:28,393 , but. 481 00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:30,720 But you beat, you beat the cancer, correct? 482 00:31:31,150 --> 00:31:31,983 Yeah, I'm here. 483 00:31:32,590 --> 00:31:36,320 Well, I don't, I, I mean I know that, that, that one is pretty beatable, right? 484 00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:37,240 Of all the cancers. 485 00:31:37,780 --> 00:31:42,120 It, at the time I got it, it was not beatable. It was like, bye-bye. 486 00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:44,213 And um, 487 00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:50,960 and I don't know how I beat it because I walked away. I didn't do chemo, 488 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:52,680 I didn't do radiation, 489 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,840 I didn't do any of the stuff they wanted me to do because I was convinced it 490 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,950 would kill me, which it probably would've as weak as I was, 491 00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:04,850 I'd lost a lot of weight. And, um, 492 00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:10,850 I had a wonderful group of strong women friends from all the work I'd done in 493 00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:15,300 the community before and they just kind of nursed me back 494 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,630 to health. And then when I got ill again, 495 00:32:20,740 --> 00:32:23,430 when I married John, after I married John, 496 00:32:24,390 --> 00:32:29,110 I got as ill almost and realized that I think their 497 00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:34,310 non-Hodgkin's lymphoma might have been part of severe 498 00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:39,240 hepatitis C because I've had hepatitis c I 499 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,080 did have it since my son was born in 1970. 500 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,360 I had three transfusions when he was born. 501 00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:52,160 And they discovered the hepatitis C after John and I were married. 502 00:32:52,180 --> 00:32:54,360 And we were married in 68. 503 00:32:55,860 --> 00:33:00,600 And they said it was so advanced that they, I couldn't do any, um, 504 00:33:00,950 --> 00:33:05,840 treatment for it. It was just too advanced. And so I said, 505 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,480 Hmm. And fought and got the treatment and got rid of it. 506 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,480 I mean, you know, people just make up their mind and, oh, 507 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,000 you're not the right fit for this hole. So. 508 00:33:18,810 --> 00:33:21,480 Three transfusions during a pregnancy? Yeah. 509 00:33:21,580 --> 00:33:24,080 Wow. Yeah, I, he was born place previa 510 00:33:26,290 --> 00:33:29,950 and uh, I was lucky we lived right over here, 511 00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:33,950 in Bellevue, like minutes from the hospital. 512 00:33:34,090 --> 00:33:38,430 And my neighbor when I said, I think my water broke, but it's red. 513 00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:41,350 She said, get here immediately, you know, 514 00:33:41,450 --> 00:33:46,380 so Right to the hospital and yeah, it's pretty tricky. 515 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:51,260 So they told me, please don't do that again. So I haven't . Yeah. 516 00:33:51,650 --> 00:33:54,820 Yeah. . I didn't know you could cure Hep C. 517 00:33:55,890 --> 00:33:58,190 Uh, yes you can. Yes you can. 518 00:33:58,690 --> 00:34:00,950 And now much easier than when I did it. 519 00:34:01,550 --> 00:34:04,550 I mean now I think it's eight weeks of a pill. 520 00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:10,110 When I did a year's worth of interferon followed by another year's worth of 521 00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:11,790 interferon with ribavirin. 522 00:34:11,970 --> 00:34:16,510 It was three injections a week and it was like giving myself the worst 523 00:34:17,310 --> 00:34:21,870 frigging flu I've ever had three times a week, you know. 524 00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:26,350 So Monday, Wednesday, Friday, ah, Sunday I almost felt human. 525 00:34:26,490 --> 00:34:30,390 And Monday I had to do it again. So . Yeah. Not fun. 526 00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:33,110 When did your scoliosis start? 527 00:34:33,580 --> 00:34:34,870 When I was born, I mean. 528 00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:38,630 My dad, my dad started showing up in his fifties, I think. 529 00:34:38,860 --> 00:34:43,070 Yeah, I was in my seventies when they took me off hormone replacement. 530 00:34:43,890 --> 00:34:44,350 It was, 531 00:34:44,350 --> 00:34:49,350 I was doing h R t hormone replacement therapy for several years and then 532 00:34:49,860 --> 00:34:54,110 some doctor somewhere said, oh my God, you'll get heart disease if you do that. 533 00:34:54,730 --> 00:34:58,110 So all the women were taken off hormone replacement therapy. 534 00:34:58,970 --> 00:35:03,760 And within a year my mother and I both started shrinking and 535 00:35:03,790 --> 00:35:07,320 I've lost eight inches, so it's pretty severe. 536 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,320 'cause it's all in my torso, you know, . So my legs didn't get shorter, 537 00:35:13,590 --> 00:35:14,720 just my midsection. 538 00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:17,160 How do you deal with that day to day? 539 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,220 Um, I take 540 00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:27,250 25 milligrams of methadone twice a day. And I 541 00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:32,570 eat, well. I walk a mile a day. I mean, 542 00:35:32,650 --> 00:35:37,130 I really do the best I can to keep this body ticking 543 00:35:37,310 --> 00:35:39,840 because I'd like to keep it for a while, . 544 00:35:41,790 --> 00:35:44,170 And I think John wants me to be around for a while, 545 00:35:44,350 --> 00:35:48,610 so we try to take good care of me. But I am, you know, 546 00:35:48,770 --> 00:35:53,660 I am so blessed to have this person as my partner in life 547 00:35:54,530 --> 00:35:58,780 because he took over all the cooking when I couldn't stand anymore. 548 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,420 And, um, he's just amazing. I mean, 549 00:36:04,570 --> 00:36:09,460 just absolutely amazing. So, uh, I'm pretty blessed. 550 00:36:09,650 --> 00:36:10,483 Yeah. 551 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,420 How did you two meet? And I know he is much younger than you are, right? 552 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,740 Oh, yeah. He's 12 years younger than me. 553 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,020 Way to go. Lady. 554 00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:22,100 . Yeah, I'm a cougar. I guess. 555 00:36:22,580 --> 00:36:27,460 I tried to get him interested in my daughter, but his interest was with me. I, 556 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:28,753 my friend, 557 00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:33,380 I had a friend in Tacoma when I was doing my act, 558 00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:39,620 community activism stuff. And when I got sick, 559 00:36:40,010 --> 00:36:44,040 when I got cancer and got so ill, Liz, 560 00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:47,640 who I'd had a business with called alternative, uh, 561 00:36:47,940 --> 00:36:52,760 non-traditional employment for women. She called me one day and said, 562 00:36:53,540 --> 00:36:56,840 if you can get to the east side, I think I've got a job for you. 563 00:36:56,900 --> 00:37:01,880 And I was just starting to be able to feel well enough that I might 564 00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:05,800 get a job. And so I called my friend Sally and Issa quo, 565 00:37:05,820 --> 00:37:08,960 and her daughter had just graduated. She said, sure, 566 00:37:09,150 --> 00:37:12,880 come you can stay in Lisa Marie's room. And I said, it's a, 567 00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:15,560 it's a nighttime job, swing shift, 568 00:37:15,980 --> 00:37:19,000 so I won't see you and Jacques except on the weekends, 569 00:37:19,540 --> 00:37:23,680 so I won't be so much a pain in the butt. And she said, no problem. I mean, 570 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,720 Sally and I have been friends since my daughter was two years old and she's 58 571 00:37:28,140 --> 00:37:31,920 now, so long time longer than your mom, . 572 00:37:32,860 --> 00:37:37,200 So I went to stay with Sally and drove to Redmond every day 573 00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:42,440 to this small electronics firm where I was supposed to be doing silk 574 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,000 screening, but they didn't have a good enough, um, 575 00:37:46,580 --> 00:37:50,440 air system. And I got really ill from it. 576 00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:53,680 Like I'd come home and just be jittery. 577 00:37:54,460 --> 00:37:57,960 So they said, okay, let's put you in final assembly. 578 00:37:58,180 --> 00:38:02,040 So they put me there and that worked fine. And um, 579 00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,960 the person that I worked with for a while worked for was John. 580 00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:11,800 And so we hit it off. I thought he was a young, wonderful young man, 581 00:38:12,350 --> 00:38:16,880 just darling would be how I would've talked about him. 582 00:38:17,620 --> 00:38:19,640 And that darling young man. 583 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,700 And I got married not much longer after that. , 584 00:38:24,190 --> 00:38:28,700 we've been married 37 years this summer. 585 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,540 I'm dying to know how you tried to set him up with your daughter. 586 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,060 And then his response to that. 587 00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:38,960 I kept showing him pictures of Nina and he just wasn't interested. . 588 00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:41,383 Hilarious. 589 00:38:42,580 --> 00:38:46,240 So, um, so I'm glad he wasn't. Hey, . 590 00:38:47,460 --> 00:38:48,920 How long did it take for you to come around? 591 00:38:49,820 --> 00:38:50,653 Not long. 592 00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:55,600 Not long at all because we were barely two months into knowing 593 00:38:55,630 --> 00:38:57,320 each other when we got married. I mean, 594 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,160 it was insane and it shouldn't have lasted, but it has. 595 00:39:02,260 --> 00:39:03,093 Lovely. 596 00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:04,063 Yeah. 597 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:08,360 What's it like getting methadone? How was it hard for them to, to, 598 00:39:08,460 --> 00:39:10,560 was it hard to get them to prescribe that for you? 599 00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:14,940 Jesus, it's like pulling teeth, you know? They, 600 00:39:14,970 --> 00:39:19,660 they just are so afraid you're gonna be addicted. Well, excuse me, 601 00:39:20,420 --> 00:39:24,180 I am addicted to not eat, hurting, you know, 602 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,980 that's a problem I have. 603 00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:30,020 I don't like hurting and my spine is 604 00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:34,440 very twisted. So 605 00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:39,720 now when they say anything about the pain medication, 606 00:39:41,210 --> 00:39:42,890 I don't take that much really. 607 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,970 It's a very limited amount compared to what a lot of people take. 608 00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:50,970 And I just say, look at my spine. If you, you know, 609 00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:52,730 would you like to live with that? 610 00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:57,720 And rapidly they back off. So, 611 00:39:59,020 --> 00:40:02,610 you know, they know that it hurts. I mean, come on, 612 00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:07,490 a spine that's supposed to be this tall is now about this tall. 613 00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:12,020 Eight inches is a lot of heights to lose. 614 00:40:12,860 --> 00:40:13,693 Mm-hmm. . 615 00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:16,560 And everything has to readjust in there. 616 00:40:17,490 --> 00:40:18,990 So it's not just the spine, 617 00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:23,190 it's the lungs and the kidneys and the liver and whatever. 618 00:40:24,850 --> 00:40:26,830 But we're trucking along fairly good. So. 619 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,713 Yeah. 620 00:40:29,130 --> 00:40:29,963 . 621 00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:33,490 Given everything that you worked toward and fought for 622 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,170 over the years, how do you feel about the climate now for women? 623 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:42,233 I think 624 00:40:44,330 --> 00:40:48,590 in some ways we're much better off because 625 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:50,830 we've connected with one another. 626 00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:56,990 I think there's a level where we do not accept the nastiness. 627 00:40:57,060 --> 00:41:01,470 They, they used to put upon us towards each other. You know, 628 00:41:01,650 --> 00:41:05,930 you couldn't trust a woman, you couldn't. That pretty much, 629 00:41:06,030 --> 00:41:10,170 we have managed at least outta high school to deal with. 630 00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:13,400 And I think they really, 631 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,840 I think men are afraid of us and I don't understand why 632 00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:19,783 I've never, 633 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,920 I don't have the feelings they have and I guess it's testosterone. 634 00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:26,040 That's the only thing I can. 635 00:41:26,780 --> 00:41:29,120 We can create life that's pretty terrifying. We can. 636 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:29,953 Create life. 637 00:41:30,750 --> 00:41:35,600 They really want to regulate our ability to create life 638 00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:40,800 and our ability to not create life. Um, 639 00:41:41,380 --> 00:41:45,220 all of this is just, what the hell are they trying to do? 640 00:41:46,290 --> 00:41:48,620 It's, it's frightening. 641 00:41:48,650 --> 00:41:53,420 Only in the fact that they could get away with all this shit and that 642 00:41:54,290 --> 00:41:57,080 young girls are gonna be affected. 643 00:41:58,460 --> 00:42:02,120 I'm no longer concerned about abortion. I can't get pregnant. 644 00:42:03,260 --> 00:42:06,600 But young women can. 645 00:42:07,610 --> 00:42:12,310 And the fact that you have to be so frightened about what can happen to you, 646 00:42:12,540 --> 00:42:16,070 because most of the time when women wanna get pregnant, 647 00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:20,810 that's even become really difficult. But they can. 648 00:42:21,870 --> 00:42:23,690 But when they don't wanna be pregnant, 649 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,410 it's usually because they didn't choose to get pregnant. 650 00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:31,930 And the fact that any kind of a remedy for that is being taken away 651 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,850 just really irks me. 652 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,010 Statistically in places where there is access to 653 00:42:40,930 --> 00:42:44,330 excellent women's healthcare, which abortion falls into that, of course. 654 00:42:45,050 --> 00:42:45,883 Abortion rates. 655 00:42:45,930 --> 00:42:48,410 Abortion rates. Abortion rates go way down. 656 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,230 Yeah, yeah. When you have a choice, when you have birth control, 657 00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:55,990 when you have whatever you need mm-hmm. . 658 00:42:57,780 --> 00:42:58,290 Yeah. 659 00:42:58,290 --> 00:42:59,950 But usually in those areas, 660 00:43:01,310 --> 00:43:06,120 I think when the politics tend to favor and support 661 00:43:06,250 --> 00:43:10,400 women, the relationships they have end up being healthier. 662 00:43:11,660 --> 00:43:14,200 Do you and John talk at all about the future? 663 00:43:14,410 --> 00:43:17,120 Especially as you're so much older than him and, 664 00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:21,720 and have some painful issues going on? Does that ever come up? 665 00:43:22,060 --> 00:43:25,640 Oh, of course. I mean, we just found this cool thing the other day 666 00:43:27,470 --> 00:43:32,440 that we don't have to be cremated and we don't have to be filled with chemicals. 667 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,400 I found this place called Recompose that turns me 668 00:43:37,950 --> 00:43:42,640 into, um, compost for the forest. 669 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,240 I interviewed Anna from that company. 670 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:47,240 I love it. Yeah, me. 671 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:48,073 Too. 672 00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:50,840 John and I just kind of went, of course. 673 00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:53,520 That's what I wanna do too. Yeah, it's great. 674 00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:56,400 So we were thrilled to find that out. 675 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:57,770 Yeah, 676 00:43:57,770 --> 00:44:02,090 it's an excellent company and I don't think people realize that cremation is 677 00:44:02,090 --> 00:44:03,490 very hard on the environment. 678 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,610 Exactly. Worse than embalming. 679 00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:11,730 And I don't want all those chemicals from the embalming going into the ground 680 00:44:11,730 --> 00:44:16,490 either. So what, they're gonna put you in a steel box or a let Nah, 681 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,570 that was perfect. What a perfect solution. And. 682 00:44:21,570 --> 00:44:23,210 You become a tree or something. 683 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,330 Yeah, we're gonna follow up on that. Definitely. Yeah. And uh, 684 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,400 both of us know that, so we're fine, you know? Yeah. 685 00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:34,200 One of us will take care of the other of us. However that happens. 686 00:44:34,820 --> 00:44:39,280 You live with knowing the end is there. It's, you know, 687 00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:43,840 you just do what you need to do and enjoy every day. I mean, 688 00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:45,840 we try to find joy in every day. 689 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,680 Whether it's a new British mystery or John makes 690 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,640 a different kind of cookie for us, whatever. It's something, 691 00:44:55,390 --> 00:44:57,240 something wonderful in each day. 692 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,560 I think that is a such a great point because people think that small things 693 00:45:03,530 --> 00:45:06,720 can't elicit great joy. And I think that they do indeed. 694 00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:09,200 They are what bring great joy. 695 00:45:09,660 --> 00:45:12,280 Amy, thank you so much for your time today. Oh. 696 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:13,120 You're so welcome. 697 00:45:14,010 --> 00:45:16,560 Thank you for listening everybody. Bye. 698 00:45:17,140 --> 00:45:17,973 Bye. On. 699 00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:22,520 Rate review and subscribe to Hey, 700 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,320 human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks. Bye.