1 00:00:08,180 --> 00:00:10,760 Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. 2 00:00:11,020 --> 00:00:14,640 Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey Human Podcast. 3 00:00:15,870 --> 00:00:18,280 This is episode 376, 4 00:00:19,060 --> 00:00:22,320 and I had a conversation with Kine Deok. 5 00:00:22,790 --> 00:00:27,600 Kine lived the first 16 years of her life behind Russian occupied 6 00:00:27,630 --> 00:00:30,080 East Germany, behind the Iron Curtain, 7 00:00:30,490 --> 00:00:34,560 where every aspect of her life and every citizen was controlled by the 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,840 government. She immigrated to North America at 27. 9 00:00:39,410 --> 00:00:42,720 She's a bestselling author and founder of Rock The Kitchen, 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,200 A lifestyle changing online experience, 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,760 cooking class for aspiring home cooks who want to gain more 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,320 confidence, creativity, and flavor building skills in the kitchen, unquote, 13 00:00:56,140 --> 00:01:01,000 she faced seemingly insurmountable social, emotional, personal, 14 00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:03,080 and economic hurdles growing up, 15 00:01:03,180 --> 00:01:07,960 but never gave up and surpassed even her own wildest dreams for freedom and 16 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:12,720 success. Really incredible story. Fascinating woman. Lovely woman. 17 00:01:13,060 --> 00:01:17,040 And shout out to our mutual friend Michelle, 18 00:01:17,260 --> 00:01:21,640 who connected us. Yay, Missy, Michelle. All right, 19 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,440 check out hey human podcast.com for links. 20 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,440 And to learn more about my guests in the show, check out Susan ruth.com. 21 00:01:28,460 --> 00:01:32,360 To learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, follow Susan Ruth. 22 00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:37,240 And hey, human podcast on social media. Find my albums on Spotify, 23 00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:41,160 apple music, Amazon music, or wherever you get your music. 24 00:01:41,750 --> 00:01:45,320 Look for my albums. All I ever wanted was everything Surfacing to breathe. 25 00:01:45,460 --> 00:01:47,200 How to Say Goodbye, they're all up there. 26 00:01:47,610 --> 00:01:51,400 Check out my relationships and sex show with sexologist and healthcare 27 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,320 practitioner, Mara Edelman on YouTube. Under Are We There yet? 28 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,440 Podcast show rate review and subscribe to, Hey, 29 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,480 human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Please, please, 30 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,080 please rate, review and subscribe. 31 00:02:04,180 --> 00:02:07,440 If you've been listening to this show for a long time and you've never gotten 32 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,480 around to doing it, I'm, I'm asking you please to do it. 33 00:02:10,750 --> 00:02:14,560 It's so helpful with the algorithms, it helps promote the show. 34 00:02:14,710 --> 00:02:19,400 It's just all around good. So please do that. Alright, thank you for listening. 35 00:02:19,860 --> 00:02:24,760 Be well, be kind and, you know, kick some ass out there. 36 00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:27,440 You got this. All right, here we go. 37 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,370 Christine de Cook, welcome to Hey, human. 38 00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:35,580 Thank you for having me. And. 39 00:02:35,580 --> 00:02:39,540 We have a mutual friend and Michelle, who I adore and I miss very much. 40 00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:41,683 Yeah, she, 41 00:02:42,220 --> 00:02:45,660 I miss her too because they moved away and now we barely see each other, so. 42 00:02:46,290 --> 00:02:47,860 Yeah, I know. Well. 43 00:02:47,860 --> 00:02:52,140 Thank you for being here. I appreciate it. She told me about you, uh, 44 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,660 not too long ago and asked if I was interested in speaking with you. 45 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,740 And of course I said absolutely. Also any friend. 46 00:02:58,740 --> 00:03:01,040 Of hers is a friend of mine as far as I'm concerned. 47 00:03:01,100 --> 00:03:05,200 But you definitely have a fascinating story. 48 00:03:06,340 --> 00:03:10,960 I'd love to just jump right into childhood. Tell me what childhood was like. 49 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,360 I grew up in Russian occupied East Germany, behind the Iron Curtain, 50 00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:17,760 we used to say. 51 00:03:18,460 --> 00:03:23,160 And that was actually quite a childhood because we were literally 52 00:03:23,230 --> 00:03:24,063 cage in. 53 00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:28,950 We were not able to do or say anything that wasn't approved by the government. 54 00:03:29,300 --> 00:03:33,630 Life was marked by scarcity of literally the simplest things. And, 55 00:03:34,330 --> 00:03:37,550 um, it was a tough childhood. I I all, 56 00:03:37,590 --> 00:03:42,310 I remember Little East, you know, when people ask me to describe it, 57 00:03:42,430 --> 00:03:47,110 I say, well, I describe it as gray. Everything was gray. Streets were gray. 58 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,790 Fruit was gray. The air was gray. Everything was gray. 59 00:03:51,790 --> 00:03:56,030 There was no color in our life. So it was very challenging. And, you know, 60 00:03:56,030 --> 00:03:58,510 we didn't have much of anything because we, 61 00:03:58,970 --> 00:04:02,110 the government thought we didn't need much of anything we could, needed to work, 62 00:04:02,290 --> 00:04:07,150 be work obese and do our job and basically 63 00:04:07,150 --> 00:04:09,070 follow the rules and be a good citizen. 64 00:04:09,890 --> 00:04:12,550 And then we would be rewarded with, 65 00:04:13,070 --> 00:04:16,390 I don't know what we'd be rewarded with because we never got rewarded. 66 00:04:16,450 --> 00:04:20,110 My mother did, never got rewarded. No, my sister did. Never got rewarded, 67 00:04:20,210 --> 00:04:22,270 and I didn't. Now mind you, 68 00:04:23,330 --> 00:04:26,310 we also were Christian in a country that formed on religion. 69 00:04:27,210 --> 00:04:32,190 So being a Christian wasn't a good thing because we did 70 00:04:32,190 --> 00:04:33,550 not join the pioneers. 71 00:04:33,570 --> 00:04:37,870 We did not join anything political that was, 72 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,860 you know, seen as, yes, you're a good citizen, you follow the rules. 73 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,740 So we did not do any of this. So they, they let us feel that too, you know? So. 74 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,580 And if you didn't follow that, what would happen? 75 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:56,870 Well, basically you would feel the consequences, cons, consequences. 76 00:04:57,050 --> 00:04:59,430 For me in school, like for my sister and I, 77 00:04:59,450 --> 00:05:02,550 it was like we were excluded from everything that was going on. 78 00:05:02,780 --> 00:05:07,470 Everybody else would go celebrate and have events and things to go to. 79 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:09,510 We would never be able to do that. 80 00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:14,470 And my mom would feel it at work because she was excluded and from a lot of 81 00:05:14,470 --> 00:05:15,710 things. So, 82 00:05:16,450 --> 00:05:21,250 and the other thing too is we were excluded from like 83 00:05:21,250 --> 00:05:23,570 simple things. For example, like moving, 84 00:05:24,180 --> 00:05:29,010 being able to move to a different apartment because the apartment we were 85 00:05:29,170 --> 00:05:32,690 living in was terrible. It was a dump. 86 00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:38,620 And I remember my mom once applying to be able to move 87 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,900 and guess, so you have, first of all, you had to apply, right? I mean, 88 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:43,153 you had to apply. 89 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,860 And then I remember these two gentlemen coming on the door knocking, 90 00:05:49,010 --> 00:05:52,790 and my mom opened up. Then they went into the apartment. 91 00:05:53,270 --> 00:05:55,590 S stumped on the floor, said, 92 00:05:55,740 --> 00:05:59,240 there's nothing wrong with with this apartment left. And that was it. 93 00:06:01,490 --> 00:06:02,830 So we weren't moving anywhere. 94 00:06:04,530 --> 00:06:08,710 And then I remember lines, lines everywhere. I mean, 95 00:06:08,710 --> 00:06:13,470 after school it was my job to go to the bakery line up there at like 96 00:06:13,570 --> 00:06:17,990 one 30 when the bakery opened at three o'clock to just 97 00:06:18,690 --> 00:06:20,710 see whatever else was left from the morning. 98 00:06:20,710 --> 00:06:23,230 Because they wouldn't sell fresh things in the afternoon. 99 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:27,190 They were just basically open in the morning while we had to go to school. 100 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,750 Right. And then they closed at one, open at three, 101 00:06:30,770 --> 00:06:33,030 and whatever else was left you would be able to buy. 102 00:06:33,410 --> 00:06:38,270 And I remember standing there from counting the people in front of 103 00:06:38,270 --> 00:06:39,740 me, you know, 104 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,580 to see whether I would be able to touch one of those breads behind. 105 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,820 And I saw on the shelf or not. And sometimes I was, 106 00:06:46,820 --> 00:06:51,380 sometimes I wasn't going to the butcher. It was the same everywhere. 107 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:52,540 So the butcher, 108 00:06:52,540 --> 00:06:56,580 you would go and you would think they sell tiles because it was just empty 109 00:06:56,590 --> 00:06:57,820 hooks. There was nothing there. 110 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,020 And then we saw lines forming up on the marketplace. 111 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,860 And my mom always gave us five German marks at the time. And she says, 112 00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:12,060 whenever you see a line line up, whether you know what's being sold or not. 113 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,660 And then we would stand in the line. And I remember, so we would ask what's, 114 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,740 what's sale? What's, so the, you know, 115 00:07:19,740 --> 00:07:23,060 would go to the front and then by the time we would come back, you would say, 116 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,820 you would hear whether it was apples or potatoes or whatever it was. 117 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,940 So that was my life lines conclusions from school, 118 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,510 not being able to move. Like our apartment, literally, 119 00:07:37,610 --> 00:07:39,790 we didn't even have a toilet in the apartment. 120 00:07:39,930 --> 00:07:44,630 We had to walk across the hallway, we used the washroom. And at night, that was, 121 00:07:45,380 --> 00:07:48,310 that was challenging and scary for a little girl, right? 122 00:07:49,090 --> 00:07:51,170 And then we had leave or not, 123 00:07:51,170 --> 00:07:55,690 we had a community bath one for the entire house. 124 00:07:55,870 --> 00:08:00,730 So we would have to note in the calendar when my mom 125 00:08:00,750 --> 00:08:04,570 and I, when my mom was able to actually give the two girls a bath. 126 00:08:05,150 --> 00:08:06,970 And that was usually Saturday afternoons. 127 00:08:07,590 --> 00:08:12,290 But just the thought of everybody else using that 128 00:08:13,150 --> 00:08:17,800 bathtub was disgusting, you know? Anyway, so that was my childhood. 129 00:08:18,060 --> 00:08:22,180 It was, uh, pretty gray and pretty awful. And other than my mom, 130 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:23,393 as I said, 131 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,980 trying to make the best of it and really being loving and kind and trying her 132 00:08:27,980 --> 00:08:32,140 hardest to give us moments of joy. There was, 133 00:08:32,550 --> 00:08:35,300 there was nothing. How did you get out? 134 00:08:37,180 --> 00:08:41,080 So we got out in 84. 135 00:08:41,170 --> 00:08:43,960 There was five years before the wall came down. 136 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:50,090 The reason why we got out is because of the politic, politic happenings. 137 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:54,450 Back in the day, like 1977, there was the housing, 138 00:08:54,980 --> 00:08:59,400 the housing key declaration that reflected human rights 139 00:08:59,860 --> 00:09:03,720 across, uh, all border for people across all borders. So, 140 00:09:04,260 --> 00:09:08,600 and it has become like very challenging, uh, for the German, 141 00:09:09,890 --> 00:09:14,070 um, democratic republics to keep people in. 142 00:09:14,610 --> 00:09:16,670 And there was a whole bunch of happenings, 143 00:09:16,670 --> 00:09:18,270 which I don't have to explain right now, 144 00:09:18,290 --> 00:09:22,710 but my mom basically had applied to be able to lose the country. 145 00:09:23,570 --> 00:09:27,880 And so she must have applied in 79, but took, 146 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,750 because it took five years for that application to come 147 00:09:33,830 --> 00:09:36,430 together. And then they called us. 148 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:41,030 And the only reason why we even had a telephone is because my mom worked in the 149 00:09:41,230 --> 00:09:46,160 hospital as an X-ray technician. People usually did not have a telephone. 150 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:51,400 The only reason we did is because she worked and she needed to be called and be 151 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,680 able to be called. So they called us, 152 00:09:53,710 --> 00:09:57,640 gave us 24 hour notice to get the heck out of the country. 153 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,020 And that wasn't possible because my sister at the time, 154 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,900 she was already in Berlin studying. So my mother asked like, 155 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,780 did she bagged government? People's like, 156 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,420 you have to give me 48 hours because I have to get a hold of my other daughter. 157 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,370 And so that was pretty, that was all just punishment, 158 00:10:19,370 --> 00:10:20,203 right? 159 00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:25,200 And then I remember where we were each leaving with two suitcases and 160 00:10:25,420 --> 00:10:26,880 we were going to the train station. 161 00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:31,680 They took away our identity and we had nothing to our name. 162 00:10:32,070 --> 00:10:33,200 Like we were nobody. 163 00:10:33,710 --> 00:10:37,600 They took away everything that would identify who we are. 164 00:10:38,030 --> 00:10:38,880 When they put us, 165 00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:43,640 they had machine guns and german shepherds and put us in that 166 00:10:43,770 --> 00:10:48,560 train because we were now told, um, Raiders or, 167 00:10:49,140 --> 00:10:54,100 uh, what do they call these people? Um, I don't remember what we, 168 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,180 we had a specific name, . 169 00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:59,020 Basically we were trading us leaving the country. 170 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:04,680 So until the last moment of us being in that 171 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:07,880 country, we were, they literally treated like shit. 172 00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:13,270 But because of the political happenings, 173 00:11:13,330 --> 00:11:17,110 we were able to leave five years before the wall came down. 174 00:11:17,170 --> 00:11:20,070 And that has changed the trajectory of our lives. 175 00:11:20,530 --> 00:11:25,230 So I'm so grateful that that happened, even though it wasn't devi easily at all, 176 00:11:26,530 --> 00:11:30,700 was 16. Yeah. 177 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:32,560 But it, 178 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:37,540 it was challenging because now I was going from a 179 00:11:37,540 --> 00:11:40,060 socialist country to a capitalist country, 180 00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:45,180 which the school system was completely different. And when we had to leave, 181 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,260 it was in, in March, in the middle of March, well, I was in grade 10, 182 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,240 so I couldn't even finish my regular school, school and graduate from school. 183 00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:58,930 They didn't care. So now I had to finish school in a different 184 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:05,520 system and completely turned my world upside down because I wasn't 185 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:06,553 prepared for that. 186 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:11,280 I had had no clue how to handle all this. Right. 187 00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:12,880 It was amazing to be free, 188 00:12:13,060 --> 00:12:17,680 but that freedom came with a whole bunch of complications because I didn't know 189 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:18,513 how to handle it. 190 00:12:19,650 --> 00:12:21,440 Where did you go? Was it Canada? 191 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,820 Oh, we were actually going to, uh, west Germany first. I lived in, 192 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:27,713 in West Germany, 193 00:12:28,090 --> 00:12:32,260 like in Hamburg for about 16, 194 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,880 um, 11 years before I immigrated to Canada. Yeah. 195 00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:43,000 When, when you first got to West Germany from East Germany, uh, what was the, 196 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,780 how did people from West Germany feel about folks from East Germany coming in? 197 00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:51,340 Were they welcoming? Did they No. 198 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,700 Not really. No. And especially, I came, my, 199 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,540 we came from what's called bia, 200 00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:02,140 which is very on the Czechoslovakian border. 201 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,380 So the accent we had was horrible. 202 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:08,660 And Hamburg is actually in the very north of Germany, 203 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,660 so they speak high German, you know, 204 00:13:11,660 --> 00:13:14,380 like how the English speak proper English. 205 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,740 So the people in Hamburg speak very high, proper German. 206 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,290 And the teacher in school, believe it or not, told me, 207 00:13:23,830 --> 00:13:27,930 Hey girl, you either speak proper German or you just shut. 208 00:13:29,620 --> 00:13:32,040 So we were in school. Now, 209 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,200 I was not welcomed first of all because I was an Aussie, 210 00:13:36,340 --> 00:13:40,600 that's what they called us. Well, Aussie from a a Germany, 211 00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:43,680 east Germany is Aus Germany in, in Germany. 212 00:13:44,980 --> 00:13:48,720 So you are just an Aussie, and then by the, by the way, you don't talk properly, 213 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:52,920 so you're whatever. So that was very challenging, very challenging. 214 00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:55,960 And I think the biggest challenge, Susan, was 215 00:13:58,260 --> 00:14:01,320 the system. So we were free now, 216 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:06,600 and with that comes free thinking and free doing and free whatever, 217 00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:10,960 right? So I remember in school we were sitting in, 218 00:14:11,020 --> 00:14:14,040 in a class and the teacher was telling us, you know, 219 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,960 we were going over a storyline of something, 220 00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:22,280 and then the home homework or the assignment was to go home and write 221 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,290 a, write an episode for it, or like a, 222 00:14:26,290 --> 00:14:28,650 your own thoughts or your own whatever, you know. 223 00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:33,330 So I came home and I was crying, and my mom was saying, Hey girl, 224 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:36,010 what's happening? I said, well, they want me to write my, 225 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,410 they want me to write an an, an essay. It's like, 226 00:14:38,450 --> 00:14:41,330 I don't even know how to do this. It is like, 227 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,610 they want me to have an opinion. I have no opinion, 228 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,250 because we were just trained to be robots to 229 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,610 basically repeat after me. And as better, 230 00:14:53,710 --> 00:14:58,440 we were repeating as better notes. We were done in school. Well, 231 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:02,280 in, in the rest German world, there was no repeating, there was, 232 00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:05,320 give me your thoughts, give me your opinion, give me 233 00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:10,430 whatever. And I wasn't able to do this took me a long time. 234 00:15:10,730 --> 00:15:15,190 So I tried many, many nights because I was so, 235 00:15:15,210 --> 00:15:17,630 so overwhelmed and I didn't know how to handle it all. 236 00:15:20,490 --> 00:15:24,690 How do you feel about your identity at this point? 237 00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:28,290 Uh, how, and then how did you come to find your identity? 238 00:15:28,830 --> 00:15:33,730 And because I believe in a society like East Germany or North Korea or 239 00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:37,890 any of these places, your identity is one thing, 240 00:15:37,890 --> 00:15:42,490 and that is to appreciate the leader and follow the party line. 241 00:15:44,030 --> 00:15:46,570 How does one find one's identity through all of that? 242 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,940 You know, it's, it's very hard actually. It's not, it's, 243 00:15:54,050 --> 00:15:59,040 it's a long, a long way. It, it does, it's not happening overnight. 244 00:15:59,380 --> 00:16:04,040 And I think the best example I can give you is when I had my first 245 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:07,840 moment of going through college. 246 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,860 So now I would go through college because that was what you would do next. 247 00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:16,820 I mean, now I had the opportunity to actually go to higher education, 248 00:16:16,820 --> 00:16:21,140 which in East Germany I didn't have. So I thought, well, I'm gonna do this, 249 00:16:21,210 --> 00:16:25,500 even though I wasn't the best learner and the best student, but I thought, wow, 250 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:27,660 it's a great opportunity. I'm gonna take it, right? 251 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,300 So I would go and I would do it, but it wasn't super easy. 252 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,220 And one day I remember, uh, of coming home and telling my mom, 253 00:16:36,220 --> 00:16:40,720 because I was living with her, I couldn't afford my own, you know, 254 00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:43,720 apartment. I had no car. I had used the brain, 255 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,760 I had to work while going to university. There was all sorts of things. 256 00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:51,390 But I came home one day and I said to my mom, you know, 257 00:16:51,390 --> 00:16:54,390 I'm gonna take some time off to find myself. 258 00:16:56,250 --> 00:17:00,830 And she said, you wanna do what? I said, well find myself. 259 00:17:00,990 --> 00:17:05,030 A lot of people do this my age. And she says, what does it even mean? Like, 260 00:17:05,770 --> 00:17:09,520 is there anything lost? Or you have lost your face, your body parts. 261 00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:13,280 You quite put well together. What's going on? She says, 262 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,240 I suggest you look in the mirror and see what you need to find. You know? 263 00:17:17,780 --> 00:17:20,760 And she says, if you wanna find yourself, you can do this later in life, 264 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,740 but not under my roof and the story. So I went, 265 00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:26,740 I remember I went to the, 266 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,180 the bathroom and looked in the mirror and I was looking to see 267 00:17:32,180 --> 00:17:35,340 what I was finding, what I was wanting to find, right? 268 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,340 And it was interesting because 269 00:17:40,790 --> 00:17:41,930 all these challenges, 270 00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:46,690 everything was so overwhelming all these past years that I just 271 00:17:46,890 --> 00:17:51,440 wanted to find a way out. I just wanted to take a break. I don't want, 272 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,720 I didn't wanna stink. I did, I just wanted to, 273 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,280 I needed just to be like nothing for a moment, right? Because, 274 00:17:58,940 --> 00:18:03,240 and then this little voice in my head, of course, the gremlins we have saying, 275 00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:07,160 well, you can't do all this. It's way too complicated. Yes, you're free, 276 00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:09,880 but you are not born for this. 277 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,040 So that voice telling me all these things, like, 278 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:16,640 I'm not good enough for whatever, so wanting to shut me down. 279 00:18:17,540 --> 00:18:21,200 So I'm looking in this mirror and I'm thinking, well, you know what it, 280 00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:26,560 the reason why I wanna find myself is because I don't really want to, 281 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,440 because there's nothing wrong with me. I just wanna escape from the challenges. 282 00:18:31,630 --> 00:18:33,250 And if I say I can't, 283 00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:39,110 I would've been easier than saying I can because it would've allowed me to quit 284 00:18:39,410 --> 00:18:41,870 and just move off. Right? 285 00:18:42,610 --> 00:18:46,230 So that was my first moment actually where I thought, you know what? 286 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,930 There is more in you than that little 287 00:18:50,980 --> 00:18:52,690 voice that tells you you are nobody, 288 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,330 just because you always been told you are nobody. Right? 289 00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:58,890 I was always been told I'm nobody. You're just a puppet. 290 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,540 And that you adopt that thinking, right? And even though I was free, 291 00:19:04,780 --> 00:19:07,700 I was still in that mindset of being a puppet. 292 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,510 And so looking at that mirror and hearing that 293 00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:17,350 voice talking to me, and then I decided, you know what? I'm not a puppet. 294 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:21,110 I can do better than this. I am now free. And I. 295 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,170 Stop this mindsets of I can, 296 00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:30,250 and I will do whatever it takes to take my life and my own hand and to push 297 00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:33,210 through all these obstacles to make something out of my life. 298 00:19:33,650 --> 00:19:37,730 I have now an opportunity and I'm just, it's challenging, 299 00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:40,130 but I'm gonna do what it takes to move on. 300 00:19:40,670 --> 00:19:45,370 And that's when I started to actually become cine, 301 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,450 more stepping out of this puppet being and becoming more of 302 00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:55,250 the person that I am today. That was my start, I would say. 303 00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:59,290 Hmm. When you look around the landscape of America, 304 00:19:59,870 --> 00:20:03,850 do you get nervous of what's happening today with such 305 00:20:04,790 --> 00:20:09,250 derive communi communities and communication? Does it, 306 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:10,810 does it trigger you at all? 307 00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:15,850 It does because there is so much, you know, I mean, 308 00:20:15,860 --> 00:20:20,770 we're all brutalized by so many things that come our way, 309 00:20:20,770 --> 00:20:25,090 right? And all these demands of who to be, what to do, 310 00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:28,770 um, where to go, all these things. And some, I, 311 00:20:28,890 --> 00:20:32,050 I think there are so many of us are overwhelmed, 312 00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:36,410 and then they feel stuck because they lose clarity, they lose confidence, 313 00:20:36,410 --> 00:20:41,160 they lose, um, their path because we, you know, 314 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,720 then we look at others and there's this competition thinking we have, 315 00:20:44,780 --> 00:20:47,840 or we need to be like these other people, or we need to do this, 316 00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:51,120 or we need to have that, or whatever. So it, I think it's very, 317 00:20:51,660 --> 00:20:56,280 it is frightening a little bit to stay strong 318 00:20:56,740 --> 00:21:00,400 and follow your path and know what you want to do, 319 00:21:00,620 --> 00:21:05,480 and not give into society as to how they want us to be 320 00:21:05,620 --> 00:21:09,080 and see and how they want us, you know, to yeah. 321 00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:14,600 Lead our life and, you know, keep that confidence. It's, 322 00:21:14,670 --> 00:21:19,000 it's, it's a challenge every day. And you gotta really focus on, 323 00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:23,920 on being strong and not falling in the trap of yeah. 324 00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:28,850 What others of, of all these things that surround us, right? 325 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,250 What happens, well, to that point too, is that I think that there are, 326 00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:38,970 there are some indications, there are many indications at this point that. 327 00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:40,680 The. 328 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,130 Politicians are trying to control the populace. 329 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,250 That kind of thing makes me very nervous. 330 00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:50,890 And I was born and raised in a free country, 331 00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:52,790 but it, 332 00:21:52,790 --> 00:21:57,570 it does seem that at least some of the state's leaders are determined to take 333 00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:59,050 so many rights away. 334 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,930 Yeah, it's frightening. It is. 335 00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:07,690 And especially coming from a country or growing up in a country where that we 336 00:22:07,690 --> 00:22:10,010 had no rights, you know, 337 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:15,050 it is actually very frightening to see that we would maybe go more and more in 338 00:22:15,050 --> 00:22:15,883 that direction. 339 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,353 Mm-hmm. . 340 00:22:18,210 --> 00:22:18,890 Yeah. 341 00:22:18,890 --> 00:22:22,860 History repeats. What facilitated your move to Canada? 342 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,140 So actually, I got to Vancouver, British Columbia. 343 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,940 And what facilitated my move was a sad, 344 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,740 sad story because I married my prince charming, 345 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,340 the man I fell in love with when I was 18 years old. 346 00:22:37,980 --> 00:22:40,060 I married him when I was 24, 347 00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:44,960 knowing that there was an elephant in the room. 348 00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:48,640 But me being young and thinking, oh, we can, 349 00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:53,720 and now finding my voice and finding my, I can and I will attitude, I thought, 350 00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:56,680 oh, okay, I can deal with the elephant in the room, 351 00:22:56,770 --> 00:23:00,320 which was him having a gambling problem. 352 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:03,593 I knew that. 353 00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:08,320 And the pastor in our church didn't even wanna marry us because he said, 354 00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:09,790 guys, 355 00:23:09,790 --> 00:23:14,560 that needs to be dealt with because it can be dramatic to your marriage. 356 00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:17,960 Well, I thought, well, we were together for six years. 357 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,160 I really wanted to marry the guy. And, uh, so to make a long story short, 358 00:23:23,310 --> 00:23:25,600 obviously we couldn't deal with the elephant in the room. 359 00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:30,320 And I tried way more than him because when a gambler, you know, 360 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,880 I don't know what triggers the fact when you actually think you have a gambling 361 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,840 problem, uh, maybe there is a number of an amount of money. 362 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,840 I don't know what it is, but you know, 363 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,560 that you have to gamble away in order to sink. You're a gambler. 364 00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:46,640 He never thought of him as a gambler yet. He gambled away everything we had. 365 00:23:47,060 --> 00:23:50,720 One day I came home, there was no tv, next thing the camera was missing. 366 00:23:51,060 --> 00:23:55,800 It was always things like this. And, you know, we were young and I was in love, 367 00:23:56,090 --> 00:24:00,820 truly. And so I would go to these, uh, discovery, self discovery, 368 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,060 uh, recovery sessions, and I would learn about the issue of gambling, 369 00:24:06,170 --> 00:24:08,740 what goes on in the head. I tried everything. And we, 370 00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:12,580 I would try to get him to counseling, but nothing worked. 371 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,940 And I was just afraid being so young, it's like, well, we wanna build a family. 372 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,340 We wanna grow all together. And I saw no, um, 373 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,940 no hope, because nothing changed over the years. 374 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,980 And so I just, I made this very, 375 00:24:31,010 --> 00:24:34,940 very hard decision to leave the man I truly loved. But as I have, 376 00:24:34,940 --> 00:24:38,500 there is no way this is gonna work. Because if you don't wanna work on yourself, 377 00:24:38,980 --> 00:24:40,180 I cannot change you. 378 00:24:40,780 --> 00:24:45,060 I learned early on that the change can only come from the person within 379 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,500 you can support, you can encourage, you can be there, 380 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,580 but you cannot change a person. Uh, 381 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,540 not the person's value or principles they live by. 382 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,220 And if they don't wanna change, he wasn't ready at the time, 383 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,620 and I just had to accept it. So long story short, 384 00:25:02,620 --> 00:25:04,620 we go to the courthouse, getting the worst. 385 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,860 We were sitting there holding hands because we were loving each other, 386 00:25:08,860 --> 00:25:12,300 getting divorced. It's crazy. And then afterwards, 387 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,340 we kept on seeing each other even. So we had split and had separate apartments. 388 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,380 And at one time I said, 389 00:25:18,730 --> 00:25:22,300 this can't go on because I need to move on. 390 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,900 So I was sitting in the bus going to work, and I'm looking in the newspaper, 391 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,260 and I saw an ad in the paper, Vancouver Island, 392 00:25:30,850 --> 00:25:34,620 come to see the whales and fish, get some fishing done, 393 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,900 and da da da in exchange for some work. 394 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,820 And I thought to myself, that's probably just one of those scam things, right? 395 00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:47,060 This is not happening. Anyway, my curiosity got ahold of me, 396 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,620 and I called the number, and lo and behold, I was a real person. 397 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,220 The lady who I'm still friend with today, she says, 398 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,740 my brother immigrated to Canada and he lives on Tofino on Vancouver Island, 399 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:03,460 and he is building a house. And in Canada, they have what's called woofers, 400 00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:08,380 like people who could go and work for a period of time for free room and board. 401 00:26:10,150 --> 00:26:14,770 And I said, well, hey, here I am. I need to get away for a while. So she says, 402 00:26:14,770 --> 00:26:16,050 well, you know, I don't know, 403 00:26:16,050 --> 00:26:20,130 because he's looking for guys helping with building a house. 404 00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:24,530 And I said, well, I may be a woman, but I can work like a guy. Why don't I, 405 00:26:24,730 --> 00:26:27,370 I I talk to him and see. So anyways, 406 00:26:27,850 --> 00:26:31,410 I talked to him and he gave me the benefit of the doubt, said, okay, girl, 407 00:26:31,670 --> 00:26:36,010 if you really need a break, come on. And so I befriended the family. 408 00:26:36,290 --> 00:26:40,850 I stayed there for six weeks, came back the following year for eight weeks, 409 00:26:41,670 --> 00:26:43,880 and then I decided, you know, 410 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,760 this is my opportunity to start all over again to build a new 411 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,240 life, because I loved British Columbia, the country, it's so beautiful. 412 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:56,360 Now, mind you, I couldn't speak English at the time. 413 00:26:57,810 --> 00:27:01,670 So because we learned Russian in school, remember Russia occupied these Germany, 414 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:05,590 Germany. So I thought, anybody thought I was crazy. It's like, 415 00:27:05,650 --> 00:27:08,430 you are gonna do what? Sell your house, 416 00:27:08,580 --> 00:27:12,070 quit your job and go somewhere where you can't even speak the language. 417 00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:15,730 And I said, I can and I will. 418 00:27:16,350 --> 00:27:19,350 So that attitude has helped me, 419 00:27:20,210 --> 00:27:24,710 was basically started to become my lifelong companion in everything I did, 420 00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:27,070 and in every challenge I overcame. 421 00:27:27,610 --> 00:27:31,110 So that is basically how I came to, um, 422 00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:36,990 to Canada. So, because after two years of going to visit, I decided, 423 00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:41,870 you know, I'll just gonna sell everything and make a move. And I did, 424 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,350 which was another challenge, because now I had to climb down the ladder. 425 00:27:46,450 --> 00:27:50,310 In the meantime, I had become a social educator, graduated from university, 426 00:27:52,050 --> 00:27:55,150 but I, in order for me to immigrate, there was only one way. 427 00:27:56,990 --> 00:28:01,670 I, I wasn't gonna marry anybody. I didn't have a million dollar to my name. 428 00:28:02,730 --> 00:28:07,550 And there was another way of, oh, there was another way of how you could, oh, 429 00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:10,310 family first grade, I didn't have any family there. 430 00:28:10,330 --> 00:28:13,510 So all these three avenues did not apply to me. 431 00:28:13,770 --> 00:28:18,630 The only other avenue was become a live in caregiver for two years, 432 00:28:19,850 --> 00:28:23,950 and after that you could become a permanent resident. 433 00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:26,070 So I went that route, 434 00:28:27,170 --> 00:28:31,030 but I encountered a whole bunch of new struggles because 435 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,420 my image of being a live-in caregiver, 436 00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:40,260 and what I have heard how this all works is that you're gonna be part of the 437 00:28:40,260 --> 00:28:43,940 family and it's all gonna be nice, 438 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,980 and this and that. It wasn't at all. 439 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,220 So it was a drama story for me because the family I call selfish in 440 00:28:52,220 --> 00:28:54,540 my book that I published , 441 00:28:55,570 --> 00:28:59,580 were very selfish and treated me with the utmost disrespect. 442 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,580 And it was just a challenge day after day. 443 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,300 So it was a hard way for me to immigrate. And believe me, 444 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,940 there were days when I felt I'm gonna pack my shit up 445 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,020 and go back home because I cannot take it anymore. 446 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,060 And then what I did, guess what, every time that happened, went to the bathroom, 447 00:29:21,550 --> 00:29:26,340 threw them water in my face, and looked in that mirror and said, 448 00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:31,380 I can. And I will. I did not give up everything to just give in. Now I'm gonna 449 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,410 give my best, and I'm just work through this time. 450 00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:42,040 And I'm glad I did because I wouldn't sit here today talking to you if I had 451 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,200 given in and went home. So yes, that was my story, immigrating to Canada, 452 00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:49,280 we lived there for a little while, and then, uh, 453 00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:53,800 through other happenings in my life, I immigrated to the States. So, 454 00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:57,920 uh, but yeah, I was, uh, able to basically start my life. 455 00:29:59,060 --> 00:30:00,360 And you're in Bellingham now? 456 00:30:02,190 --> 00:30:07,130 Not quite anymore, because my now husband , he likes to move around. 457 00:30:07,550 --> 00:30:11,490 And since we are getting along super well and have a great relationship, 458 00:30:11,690 --> 00:30:13,130 I kind of keep on following him, 459 00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:17,810 which means I constantly have to reinvent myself because 460 00:30:18,330 --> 00:30:21,250 I can't keep on doing the business I'm doing. Because if we're moving, 461 00:30:21,930 --> 00:30:25,460 I gotta always try to, yeah. 462 00:30:25,460 --> 00:30:29,060 So it's one of my jobs to reinventing myself, , 463 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,980 I'm a traveler. Um, what do you say of travelers, of, 464 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,860 of life's many paths, whatever you wanna say. In the summer months, 465 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,500 we live in Westport, which is Washington, and then in the winter months, 466 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:43,780 we live in the Florida Keys. 467 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,820 Ah, . I go to Key West quite a lot for the songwriter festival. 468 00:30:49,530 --> 00:30:52,620 Yeah, yeah. So you would know Big Pine key, 469 00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:54,060 because you have to travel through there. 470 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,260 Wow. What a fascinating start. 471 00:30:57,930 --> 00:31:01,740 When did you start to feel really grounded, or do you yet. 472 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:07,580 ? Uh, yes and no. I feel very grounded 473 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,380 in the way of who I am today, what I've become. 474 00:31:13,820 --> 00:31:15,980 I feel very, you know, 475 00:31:16,420 --> 00:31:21,220 I know who I am and what I'm able of and capable of doing. 476 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,140 So I feel very grounded in that respect. In regards to, you know, 477 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,660 all these moving around all the time. I mean, I love traveling, 478 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,580 but sometimes I wake up in the morning and I, I don't even know where I am. 479 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,420 And right now we are even, even my husband and I, sometimes we wonder, are we, 480 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,180 do we, are we residents here? Are we residents there? 481 00:31:44,270 --> 00:31:48,300 Where are we actually residing? So that is kind of like a little bit, 482 00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:53,220 we're floating in the air right now. I feel pretty, pretty, you know, 483 00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:56,980 solid and stand feel. I, I stand on solid ground, 484 00:31:57,190 --> 00:32:01,700 which has taken me a long time over all my life, 485 00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:05,260 pushing through challenges, coming out on , on the other side, 486 00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:09,580 getting stronger with all these experiences and never giving up, 487 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,290 always giving your best. And, um, yeah, 488 00:32:14,510 --> 00:32:18,890 and pushing through, through fear and discomfort. 489 00:32:19,790 --> 00:32:20,690 How did you meet your husband? 490 00:32:21,650 --> 00:32:25,330 I met my husband through work because, um, 491 00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:30,010 he was a mortgage broker and I was a real estate agent. 492 00:32:30,670 --> 00:32:33,330 So we had done some business together, and we were going through, 493 00:32:34,450 --> 00:32:36,770 I was actually going through a second divorce here, 494 00:32:36,780 --> 00:32:41,240 which is a whole nother story, the story of my life, I guess . 495 00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:44,200 Um, and he was going through a divorce, 496 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:48,320 and when we both found each other single again 497 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,060 and knowing already through work, and we liked each other, 498 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,100 so we started going out together. And from there, here we are. 499 00:32:57,850 --> 00:33:01,820 Yeah, it's so hard anyway, to partner with a person, 500 00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:05,060 given all the trauma of your life, 501 00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:08,260 I would imagine it would be that much more difficult too, 502 00:33:08,260 --> 00:33:13,220 because in a world growing up where you have to do what everyone tells 503 00:33:13,220 --> 00:33:15,900 you, and you finally break free from that, 504 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,660 and suddenly you have dominion over your body and your mind, 505 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,300 and your soul and your destiny, 506 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,060 it must be very confusing and complicated to partner with someone else. 507 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,460 And, you know, 508 00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:34,180 where in the partnership will that lead you if part of 509 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:39,660 your past makes where you are in your present that 510 00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:40,820 much more amplified? 511 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,650 Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. Uh, Susan, um, for me, 512 00:33:48,730 --> 00:33:51,350 you know, I got in my second to, to go there. 513 00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:56,310 I got in my second marriage because I met my second 514 00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:59,030 husband. He was a widower with two small children, 515 00:34:00,620 --> 00:34:05,550 and I met him through a variety of events that le led 516 00:34:05,570 --> 00:34:10,190 up. And, um, I started helping him. It wasn't someone high, 517 00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:13,710 I don't think. We fell highly in love with each other. We liked each other, 518 00:34:13,930 --> 00:34:17,390 and we were became good friends, right? And, uh, 519 00:34:17,970 --> 00:34:19,430 so my values, 520 00:34:20,530 --> 00:34:23,710 my lifelong values are driven by the needs of others. 521 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,290 And so when we got together seeing him with these 522 00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:31,303 two children, 523 00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:35,570 and they were all struggling because the mom had passed away from cancer. 524 00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:38,570 So I was getting into this relationship 525 00:34:40,860 --> 00:34:44,910 because I liked him, but mainly because he needed some help. And I thought, 526 00:34:44,910 --> 00:34:49,320 well, I can be that person. 527 00:34:49,460 --> 00:34:51,640 And the children were perceived as very difficult 528 00:34:53,220 --> 00:34:57,280 and had a lot of nannies that all ran away. And I thought, well, 529 00:34:57,350 --> 00:35:01,000 this can be helped with some persistency, some love. 530 00:35:01,030 --> 00:35:05,040 They need some consistent, you know, being there for them, yada, da, da da. 531 00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:10,000 So I got in that relationship through basically what I've just mentioned. 532 00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:15,600 What I didn't realize is that I actually got myself into a relationship with a 533 00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:20,520 narcissist because he did not show that behavior at all at the 534 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,400 beginning. And we've had good times, and I was there helping out, 535 00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:30,120 uh, really from the bottom of my heart. And one major, 536 00:35:30,980 --> 00:35:35,720 one major contributor to my decision to actually stay and not leave 537 00:35:35,810 --> 00:35:38,800 after, you know, years of challenging times, 538 00:35:39,140 --> 00:35:42,360 was the fact that, you know, I have, 539 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,000 I believe in God and I believe in, you know, things are meant to be, 540 00:35:46,020 --> 00:35:48,920 and he's guiding my life the way, you know. 541 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:51,960 So when I was sitting in the airplane on 542 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,160 November 28th, 1996 to immigrate to Canada, 543 00:35:58,430 --> 00:36:02,440 that very day was the day the mom of the children passed away. 544 00:36:04,340 --> 00:36:08,880 So when I learned that later, seven, eight years later, I thought, well, 545 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,670 maybe I was in that plane not knowing that I would become the mom of these 546 00:36:13,870 --> 00:36:18,510 children, you know? So anyway, so that was my intention of my, my whole, 547 00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:20,830 how we got together. And again, we had great times, 548 00:36:21,010 --> 00:36:24,470 but over the time I learned that 549 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,260 he was actually very, uh, 550 00:36:28,430 --> 00:36:33,020 dominating and dictating and kept us in the cage. So all of a sudden I felt, 551 00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:37,980 gosh, I just got myself on another cage I was in before. And now, 552 00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:42,020 because he did not value any friends, no friendship, 553 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,140 no people other than the four of us. 554 00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:48,620 I wasn't allowed even to go shopping without him. I mean, literally, 555 00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:52,620 I was always, I was always tapped, kept, kept. So, 556 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,460 and as more as I started to help him in his business, and, you know, 557 00:36:57,460 --> 00:37:00,740 that's how I became a real estate agent, because he was a real estate agent. 558 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,340 But as more as I got involved and as more as he, 559 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,790 as more as his personality came to shine every day, Moore, 560 00:37:10,970 --> 00:37:13,710 and it was more dominating and more dominating, 561 00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:18,390 and guess what happened to me is I turned smaller and smaller and back 562 00:37:18,460 --> 00:37:23,230 into that puppet I used to be back in the days because I was always 563 00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:25,470 told what to do and what not to do. 564 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,860 And that was dramatic because literally I didn't even, 565 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,260 you, you become so small that you don't even recognize it. 566 00:37:36,420 --> 00:37:40,050 Other people, my friends, from when I was caregiving back, 567 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,170 some other people I met, I had a conversation with them and they were shocked. 568 00:37:44,170 --> 00:37:46,410 They actually called my mom. She says, you have to take, 569 00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:49,970 get to Christine out of there. What is happening to her? She's not, 570 00:37:49,980 --> 00:37:53,530 she's not herself anymore. She's like, I don't know what she is. 571 00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:58,410 So that whole relationship, I learned that 572 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:04,620 if you don't have the same values, and I I'm passing this now onto all my, 573 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,980 you know, to my children and whatnot, if you don't have the same values, 574 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:11,333 then your, 575 00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:16,350 then your thoughts and your feelings and your actions are 576 00:38:16,350 --> 00:38:20,670 going in different directions and conflict arises all the stinking time, 577 00:38:21,130 --> 00:38:24,150 and you can't consol, you cannot solve that conflict. 578 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,580 When your values don't align and you can't back to my first marriage, 579 00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:34,940 you cannot change someone's values or principles they live by. 580 00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:40,080 So that was my big second aha moment of 581 00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:44,720 this is not working, and I'm getting smaller by the minute. 582 00:38:44,780 --> 00:38:47,720 So I had to literally one day use my, 583 00:38:48,060 --> 00:38:52,400 all my strength and m get up in the morning again, throw water in my face, 584 00:38:52,590 --> 00:38:55,600 tell myself I can, and I will leave this relationship, 585 00:38:55,610 --> 00:38:59,720 which was super challenging because leaving a narcissist is not without 586 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:04,560 consequences. And going back to your question today, 587 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,520 I mean, this relationship I have now in our, 588 00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:12,400 our by our marriage works so well is because we have the same values. 589 00:39:12,620 --> 00:39:17,000 We value everything when we have the same interests and 590 00:39:17,010 --> 00:39:21,680 everything. That's why there's harmony, there's harmony, there's fun, 591 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,800 there's enjoyment. It's long lasting. 592 00:39:25,580 --> 00:39:28,560 So I learned this that yeah, 593 00:39:29,650 --> 00:39:30,950 you can't force something, 594 00:39:30,970 --> 00:39:34,870 but the problem is you don't know this often when you go into a relationship, 595 00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:37,740 right? You get to learn it over time. 596 00:39:37,970 --> 00:39:41,740 Then the question is whether to do something once you learn, 597 00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:46,800 you know, whether to do something or just stick in it, 598 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,400 because against society, there is shame, guilt, 599 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,750 everything that gets put on you when you leave a relationship or get married 600 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,550 twice, being a Christian, right? In my family was drama 601 00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:06,310 and there was fingers pointed. But then I start to myself, well, 602 00:40:06,310 --> 00:40:08,310 those people don't live in my relationships. 603 00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:11,990 They don't know what's going on because I don't go and pronounce it and put it 604 00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:15,040 on billboards, right? But it's hard, 605 00:40:15,390 --> 00:40:20,040 it's hard to break free from these situations because 606 00:40:20,290 --> 00:40:25,120 again, society is, uh, telling us we should be good citizens. We should be, 607 00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:29,120 you know, perfect partners. We're colleagues, 608 00:40:29,590 --> 00:40:31,960 perfect everything. And if we're not, 609 00:40:33,370 --> 00:40:37,220 then we take that Shelton game on us, right? Humans, am I right? 610 00:40:37,740 --> 00:40:40,060 humans, humans. I tell you, 611 00:40:41,340 --> 00:40:46,340 I just recently talking another very, I don't know if you've heard that. 612 00:40:46,380 --> 00:40:50,060 I went to New York just three weeks ago to give a speech, 613 00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:54,330 uh, at this, uh, speak freedom event. 614 00:40:56,300 --> 00:41:00,080 And I was, uh, invited there. I wasn't, I didn't apply or anything. 615 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,360 I was invited to be one of the 10 speakers. 616 00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:08,970 And so I thought, speak freedom, what can I speak about? 617 00:41:11,060 --> 00:41:11,740 And it brought, 618 00:41:11,740 --> 00:41:16,640 it was probably one of the most challenges I've ever 619 00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:20,320 encountered in my life that I spoke about. 620 00:41:22,740 --> 00:41:25,600 And you remember, my father abandoned my mother, 621 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,360 sister and I when I was not even a year old. I forgot, 622 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,660 maybe I didn't mention that. But that's basically, that's what happened. 623 00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:36,200 That's why it was just me and my mother, because my father abandoned us. 624 00:41:36,540 --> 00:41:41,520 And it was bad enough to grow up as a child in the country that we 625 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,480 were living at with all the challenges, 626 00:41:43,940 --> 00:41:47,240 but without a strong person and father on your side, 627 00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:51,920 it was even harder. And, you know, believe it or not, but there is, 628 00:41:53,230 --> 00:41:56,050 having no father affects a lot of decisions you make. 629 00:41:57,140 --> 00:41:59,080 And I made a lot of bad decisions in my life, 630 00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:01,200 but I managed better than my sister. 631 00:42:02,490 --> 00:42:06,430 She actually crushed her emotionally when he left us, 632 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,350 which sadly had a trickle down effect onto her children. 633 00:42:11,610 --> 00:42:14,830 And today I see my nieces suffering, 634 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,830 which just tears me apart, right? It tears me apart. 635 00:42:19,410 --> 00:42:24,230 And so I developed this hate and resentment towards my 636 00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:27,710 father all these years. And when I was, I, 637 00:42:27,930 --> 00:42:32,590 my sick teenager and early in my twenties, twenties, I always said, 638 00:42:32,610 --> 00:42:33,710 if I ever meet him, 639 00:42:33,970 --> 00:42:38,790 I'm gonna blow up a storm and I'm gonna tell him whatever, you know, 640 00:42:38,910 --> 00:42:43,310 I had it all in me as to what I'm gonna say and do and how I'm gonna blame him 641 00:42:43,330 --> 00:42:46,430 and all these things. I had so much hate for this person. 642 00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:51,030 So when he showed up 45 years later, Susan, 643 00:42:52,050 --> 00:42:56,150 in all of a sudden wanting to be part of my life because he recognized I exist, 644 00:42:56,250 --> 00:43:00,710 and he sent me a letter, I was like, dumbfounded. Like, what do you want? 645 00:43:00,740 --> 00:43:05,030 What part of my life? And I was so just simply forgive you. Like, 646 00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:06,630 that's not happening, right? 647 00:43:07,930 --> 00:43:12,470 So going back to this New York speech Freedom talk, 648 00:43:13,110 --> 00:43:14,630 I thought this would be a good 649 00:43:16,250 --> 00:43:21,030 way for me to talk through what happened when I 650 00:43:21,350 --> 00:43:26,310 actually went on this pilgrimage of finding and mastering 651 00:43:26,310 --> 00:43:30,920 forgiveness, which when you asked me earlier, are you, 652 00:43:31,740 --> 00:43:36,160 do you know who you are? Or do you feel grounded? I feel grounded today. 653 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,440 And that wa was the reason why I was a even able to get on this pilgrimage, 654 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,720 because in my twenties, I would've never done it. 655 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,820 I would just told them to screw you and do whatever, right? 656 00:43:47,150 --> 00:43:49,020 Sorry for the language. Um, 657 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:55,260 so because my values have changed and I now wanna live an 658 00:43:55,260 --> 00:43:57,940 amazing life, achieve my goal, strive and be happy, 659 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,460 and it is my passion and purpose to empower others to do the same, 660 00:44:02,780 --> 00:44:05,100 I had to find a way to forgive him, 661 00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:09,580 because you can't inspire and empower others without not walking the talk, 662 00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:11,503 right? 663 00:44:12,250 --> 00:44:16,640 So I had to figure it out based on my values, not on the past. 664 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,730 That made me so resentful. And so that is, uh, 665 00:44:20,730 --> 00:44:24,330 what I talked about in New York. And it's, uh, it was actually, uh, 666 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,410 very freeing because, um, 667 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,600 what happens is when you carry that hate and resentment, 668 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:38,000 it actually changes your personality. You know, 669 00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:40,120 we always talk about forgiveness and you know, 670 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,720 forgiveness is hard and this and that, and yes, and forgiveness is actually, 671 00:44:43,820 --> 00:44:46,800 you know, it is an act of kindness towards another person, 672 00:44:47,340 --> 00:44:51,720 but actually it's also an act of kindness to yourself because you 673 00:44:52,220 --> 00:44:55,320 get rid of the baggage that's holding you hostage, right? 674 00:44:55,780 --> 00:44:59,400 And so when I went on this pilgrimage that is now 10 years ago, 675 00:45:00,420 --> 00:45:02,520 it truly changed my life. The. 676 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,680 Pilgrimage to your father. 677 00:45:04,340 --> 00:45:07,400 Yes. To, on that pilgrimage, to find forgiveness for him, 678 00:45:07,930 --> 00:45:11,920 which was a long journey, believe me. And it was a hard journey, and it put, 679 00:45:12,020 --> 00:45:14,880 it put me, it took everything off me. 680 00:45:15,540 --> 00:45:20,280 But I learned by going deep into my psyche, soul, 681 00:45:20,430 --> 00:45:21,440 mind and spirit, 682 00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:26,760 that carrying that hate and resentment with me was the root from it 683 00:45:28,750 --> 00:45:30,710 affected my, my whole being. 684 00:45:31,370 --> 00:45:35,790 And it affected actually how who I want to become 685 00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:41,190 now being this, you know, being a coach. I, I, uh, 686 00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:45,990 studied for, uh, became an energy leadership coach, uh, some years ago. 687 00:45:46,450 --> 00:45:51,270 And so now I wanna be that person who is understanding, who is compassionate, 688 00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:53,830 non-judgmental, kind, all those things. 689 00:45:54,610 --> 00:45:59,070 But it's tough to be that when you carry hidden anger and resentment 690 00:45:59,070 --> 00:46:03,670 with you. So that was, uh, quite a, quite a moment of truth there for me. 691 00:46:04,330 --> 00:46:05,163 Um, 692 00:46:05,690 --> 00:46:10,590 but I'm glad I went on the pilgrimage because it not only changed my life and 693 00:46:10,590 --> 00:46:13,270 the way I think I, 694 00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:17,830 I turned even into a better version of myself. But I also, 695 00:46:18,730 --> 00:46:23,670 um, I did not deprive myself of amazing times we have today 696 00:46:23,980 --> 00:46:28,810 because we came together and we have some amazing times. I mean, 697 00:46:28,890 --> 00:46:33,050 I can't say I love him over to the moon, but we have some great times together, 698 00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:36,490 and that is something that I, 699 00:46:36,890 --> 00:46:40,690 I would've not been able to accomplish in my earlier years. 700 00:46:41,550 --> 00:46:45,610 Did he give you a reason for leaving? And if he didn't, 701 00:46:45,790 --> 00:46:46,650 did you need one? 702 00:46:48,590 --> 00:46:53,320 Very good question. He, I know the reason for leaving, 703 00:46:53,740 --> 00:46:55,000 he didn't have to give it to me. 704 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,600 I knew from upfront because my parents had a bakery, 705 00:46:59,220 --> 00:47:03,400 and my mom worked so hard that, uh, 706 00:47:03,660 --> 00:47:07,600 she needed some additional help. And my grandparents at the time helped out, 707 00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:12,720 and they actually looked for an additional helper. And then my father ran, 708 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,760 actually ended up running off with the helper, 709 00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:19,440 which literally my grandparents took that grief into their grave. 710 00:47:19,820 --> 00:47:21,600 It was sad, very, very sad. 711 00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:25,160 So I know the reason I didn't need another reason for him. 712 00:47:25,230 --> 00:47:30,120 What he always says today is like, well, I had no, uh, 713 00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:33,000 what does he say? I have to, because he says that in, in German, 714 00:47:33,140 --> 00:47:35,680 and I have to translate in English. Like, no, 715 00:47:37,510 --> 00:47:42,250 what's the word for it? Basically, he was a coward or something, right? He was, 716 00:47:42,330 --> 00:47:47,210 I I was a coward. I I should have I all these things. Well, well, 717 00:47:47,210 --> 00:47:51,130 you didn't, right? And then the reason for, it's like, but why, 718 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,580 why did you never, I mean, I, I understand the reason why you left, 719 00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,740 but we were your children. Leaving your wife is one thing, 720 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,420 but abandoning your children, it's a different story. Why did you do that? 721 00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:07,613 Right? I mean, 722 00:48:07,650 --> 00:48:11,690 we were there and my auntie sometimes because everybody would come together, 723 00:48:11,790 --> 00:48:14,890 my whole family, his family actually, because on my mom's side, 724 00:48:14,890 --> 00:48:19,850 there was no family. They were all dead. So his family came together, 725 00:48:19,850 --> 00:48:22,730 and when my auntie walked on the street with us in the little cart, 726 00:48:23,150 --> 00:48:28,010 he would walk across on the other side and turned around and not see us 727 00:48:28,110 --> 00:48:29,770 on purpose. And I said to him, 728 00:48:29,830 --> 00:48:34,730 so why would you not even notice us and come over and say hi? And he, 729 00:48:34,910 --> 00:48:37,730 his excuse was always, well, his new relationship, 730 00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:43,140 the lady was too dominant and told him that you have a new family 731 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,220 now. That family is no longer in existence. You stay here or you go back. 732 00:48:48,650 --> 00:48:52,680 Well, and he decided to stay, and that's why he never 733 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,300 sought any contact until I was 45, 734 00:48:58,300 --> 00:49:00,340 because the only reason why he did guess what, 735 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:06,040 the lady passed and now he was free again to do 736 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,840 what he wanted to do. So now he reached out. But yeah, that was a, 737 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,120 a very interesting time in my life to really deal with that. 738 00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:19,000 Did you flip a switch and just decide, all right, 739 00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:21,920 I'm gonna go on this pilgrimage of sorts, 740 00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:24,720 be what really was the catalyst? 741 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:29,440 Because if you had this hate for him and he 742 00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,480 reaches out to you and tries to contact you, 743 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,080 I imagine that took some soul searching for you as well. 744 00:49:37,220 --> 00:49:39,920 It didn't just happen overnight, like, okay, yeah, sure, I'll go talk to you. 745 00:49:40,570 --> 00:49:44,400 Especially caring. Oh, no, all that baggage. What do you think was the, 746 00:49:44,580 --> 00:49:49,400 the definitive catalyst to decide to follow through? 747 00:49:51,950 --> 00:49:56,120 Well, as I said, you know, my values have changed over the ti over time. 748 00:49:56,460 --> 00:49:59,460 And I wanted to truly, you know, 749 00:50:00,970 --> 00:50:05,750 my mission in life now is to help others to overcome challenges and 750 00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:08,230 live a, a happy and fulfilled life. 751 00:50:08,890 --> 00:50:13,550 And I cannot do this when I actually hold grudges 752 00:50:13,690 --> 00:50:16,670 or basically not walk my own talk. 753 00:50:17,050 --> 00:50:18,230 But did you know that in the moment, 754 00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:22,630 because that sounded like an arc of your life that came after the forgiveness of 755 00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:24,150 your father? Was it one? 756 00:50:24,250 --> 00:50:28,760 Oh, it actually, it, it was, when I decided to go on that pilgrimage, I thought, 757 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,040 okay, well I need to figure this out because my values have changed, 758 00:50:33,180 --> 00:50:37,120 and now I really wanna be that, uh, what do you call it, 759 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,160 that idol or whatever. Like, I wanna, 760 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:44,760 I wanna be who I am touting to be. Yeah, I get that. Yes. And, 761 00:50:44,940 --> 00:50:48,660 and so I said, well, it wasn't an overnight thing. 762 00:50:48,660 --> 00:50:51,780 It took me months and months and months, right? Yeah. Did it, 763 00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:56,420 I guess for my own sake, thinking of like basically opening up, 764 00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:59,180 going a path thing where it takes me Yeah. 765 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,420 Seeing a path to see where it takes me. And it took me happily, 766 00:51:05,740 --> 00:51:06,780 gratefully on, uh, 767 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,990 an amazing journey where I learned so much 768 00:51:11,970 --> 00:51:15,790 and, uh, where I learned to master forgiveness. Because one thing, Susan, 769 00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:19,710 forgiveness is not a light switch. You don't just forgive and move on. 770 00:51:20,410 --> 00:51:23,550 It is a long journey, and it's a daily practice, 771 00:51:23,890 --> 00:51:28,670 and I have to continue to practice it daily because when I have those days, 772 00:51:28,700 --> 00:51:31,190 when I talk to my nieces and I see them 773 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,990 dramatized in their lives, immediately my father comes up again, right? 774 00:51:36,990 --> 00:51:40,230 Because I see him being the root of all the suffering. 775 00:51:41,130 --> 00:51:45,830 So I have to literally go back on those days and find my daily 776 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,790 steps of what, what's helping me to forgive. I have a whole routine, uh, 777 00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:54,630 that I kind of came up with. And so it is, no, it is a journey. 778 00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:58,750 It's not just a one-time thing. It's, it is a lot live long journey. 779 00:51:59,690 --> 00:52:03,990 Did he seek out your sister as well? He did. 780 00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:07,070 And that's another story. He, they met each other when, uh, 781 00:52:07,330 --> 00:52:11,190 she was 20 so much, much earlier. And she, 782 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,580 you know, she, she thought he was the best, 783 00:52:16,850 --> 00:52:21,780 best thing that happened to her in life, you know? So she was like, oh my gosh. 784 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,180 She, she put him up on the golden plate or whatever. And, 785 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,420 but what happened is he kept on 786 00:52:29,980 --> 00:52:33,210 abandoning her over and over again. So for, for example, 787 00:52:33,630 --> 00:52:37,810 she was pregnant and he said, oh yeah, you can come and, uh, visit us. 788 00:52:38,270 --> 00:52:40,090 So she, we were already living in Hamburg. 789 00:52:40,750 --> 00:52:45,520 She was traveling with a toddler five, six hours by train. 790 00:52:45,620 --> 00:52:49,600 And when she arrived, so excited to be with her dad, 791 00:52:49,660 --> 00:52:53,440 who meant everything to her, you know, he wouldn't even open the door. 792 00:52:54,180 --> 00:52:58,920 He would not even open the door, let her strand there. And I was so furious, 793 00:52:59,220 --> 00:53:04,160 and I always told her like, why do you keep on trying this relationship? 794 00:53:04,260 --> 00:53:07,200 He doesn't want anything to do with us. And, you know, 795 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,840 that made me even hate him further and further. And that's, 796 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,520 that's not the only time that happened, but she was, and I don't know why, 797 00:53:14,410 --> 00:53:17,720 maybe her need for that father figure or whatever it was, 798 00:53:18,380 --> 00:53:20,760 she was complete to this day, 799 00:53:21,090 --> 00:53:23,840 she's trying to have this relationship 800 00:53:25,590 --> 00:53:30,160 that is not there. I mean, my relationship with him is, 801 00:53:32,010 --> 00:53:36,110 you know, I, I forgave him and I, I call him dad now, which took , 802 00:53:36,420 --> 00:53:37,510 took a long, long time, 803 00:53:38,250 --> 00:53:43,110 but it's not a relationship of true daughter father. Right? It's not, 804 00:53:43,530 --> 00:53:47,830 and she always was seeking that. And that, I guess, broke, kept on breaking her, 805 00:53:47,830 --> 00:53:52,310 because when he kept on abandoning her, it crushed her more and more and more. 806 00:53:52,570 --> 00:53:53,210 And that's, 807 00:53:53,210 --> 00:53:57,950 and it flew fueled my hate and my resentment more each time I got to know about 808 00:53:57,950 --> 00:54:02,190 it. Right. Oh, it was, I tell you, it was, it's a, 809 00:54:02,580 --> 00:54:04,110 it's a big thing in our family. 810 00:54:04,810 --> 00:54:08,190 And that it creates generational trauma as you spoke to, 811 00:54:08,220 --> 00:54:10,230 that her children are affected by it. 812 00:54:11,020 --> 00:54:13,640 Yes, totally. And then my nieces, 813 00:54:15,290 --> 00:54:19,000 especially my niece, I love them. I, I love them all the same, 814 00:54:19,220 --> 00:54:23,720 but the reason why I have a special relationship with her is because when I was 815 00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:26,320 still living in Germany and my sister had her second child, 816 00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:28,720 and she could not handle it at all because of, you know, 817 00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:32,360 she was in psychological treatments and whatnot. So I take on, 818 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,200 took on that girl, and I took her everywhere with me. I literally, I mean, 819 00:54:36,660 --> 00:54:38,800 she wasn't my child, but she was right. 820 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:41,400 So that's why we have a very special bond. 821 00:54:42,180 --> 00:54:46,560 And she now is going through so much drama herself because she never, 822 00:54:47,100 --> 00:54:51,880 my sister was not able to keep relationships. So my niece grew up without 823 00:54:53,630 --> 00:54:56,670 a warm, loving, caring home. 824 00:54:57,610 --> 00:55:02,230 So now she has all these dramas in her life, and it just continues. 825 00:55:02,250 --> 00:55:03,230 And when I talk to her, 826 00:55:03,250 --> 00:55:07,910 it just breaks my heart and I really have to compose myself 827 00:55:08,130 --> 00:55:10,550 and try, you know, 828 00:55:10,580 --> 00:55:14,030 find that compassion and that non-judgment and that love and 829 00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:19,710 understanding every single day when I'm phasing these 830 00:55:19,890 --> 00:55:23,860 dramas that are still there, they don't go away. 831 00:55:24,330 --> 00:55:27,220 Yeah. When did you decide to write your book? 832 00:55:29,550 --> 00:55:34,330 Um, I've decided to write my book in 2000. 833 00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:39,690 And when was the pandemic? 20? Yes. Or 19, yeah, 20. 834 00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:40,533 Right. 835 00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,530 Depends on who you ask. Whenever it, let's say 2020 . 836 00:55:44,330 --> 00:55:48,290 Whenever it started, because my, now hus, my husband and I, so we actually had, 837 00:55:48,750 --> 00:55:53,410 uh, decided, you know, one of his adventures seeking things. 838 00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:58,650 He, uh, is a boat captain since 84, even though he was also a mortgage broker, 839 00:55:59,030 --> 00:56:03,490 but he wanted to, uh, always be a captain under his own charter yacht. 840 00:56:04,270 --> 00:56:08,450 So one day he came home and said, let's do this. And I was like, 841 00:56:09,010 --> 00:56:11,730 I went just, I studied, I went to coaching school, 842 00:56:12,130 --> 00:56:16,090 I building my coaching business. He says, well, you can do that later, you know, 843 00:56:16,220 --> 00:56:19,210 let's see if, and I thought, oh, well, you know, I love boating. 844 00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:23,240 I love the adventures on the water. So it's not like he forced me by any means, 845 00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:27,440 you know? But we decided it would be a good thing to do. So we did. 846 00:56:27,820 --> 00:56:32,360 And we worked for an entire year to, we purchased the boat, a big charter yard, 847 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,520 70 feet, and we renovated it seven days a week, 848 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,760 12 hours a day. We put our heart and soul and money in that thing, 849 00:56:40,590 --> 00:56:44,960 only to find out that covid shut us down when we were ready to go. 850 00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:51,290 Mm-hmm. . And then was the question, what now? So I decided, well, 851 00:56:51,450 --> 00:56:53,570 I gotta keep myself occupied somehow. 852 00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:58,690 And I keep on encountering these challenges and having to find new ways 853 00:56:59,180 --> 00:57:03,850 constantly to push through and overcome. So, 854 00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:05,850 and many of my friends said, well, 855 00:57:05,850 --> 00:57:09,770 you should really write a book about these experiences, 856 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,050 because they're all so fascinating in so many ways. And I said, well, 857 00:57:15,290 --> 00:57:19,890 I guess I can and I will. And even though I had my doubts, because again, 858 00:57:20,170 --> 00:57:23,570 English is not my sec is my first language. 859 00:57:23,870 --> 00:57:28,690 And I said to myself, well, who am I to write a book? You know, 860 00:57:28,830 --> 00:57:33,610 who am I? Then I said, well, who am I not right? Who am I not? And so, yeah, 861 00:57:33,610 --> 00:57:38,290 that's how this book was first basically through the pandemic and us 862 00:57:38,490 --> 00:57:42,490 being shut down and yeah. So now it's out in the world, 863 00:57:42,980 --> 00:57:45,290 break loose and fly. Yes. 864 00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:50,290 Break loose and fly 10 practical tools for mastering life's challenges 865 00:57:50,310 --> 00:57:55,090 and creating a life you love. Code a subline there, I guess my pub, you know, 866 00:57:55,090 --> 00:57:58,890 the publishers always say, well, you can, what does it mean break loose and fly? 867 00:57:58,890 --> 00:58:02,850 Right? It can mean so many things. So anyways, that's the topline . 868 00:58:03,110 --> 00:58:07,570 I'm a big fan of parenthetical. So it's all good. And Rock The Kitchen Show, 869 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:12,290 what is that about? Rock The Kitchen is just another passion of mine. So, 870 00:58:12,290 --> 00:58:17,250 because we were going on these adventure charters and all of a sudden 871 00:58:17,490 --> 00:58:22,450 I had to reinvent myself to be first made in chef to cuisine on this 872 00:58:22,450 --> 00:58:26,210 boat because we actually traveled for a year and we had guests. And I, 873 00:58:27,150 --> 00:58:31,930 I'm such a perfectionist that I came up with this why I needed to 874 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,850 have present these amazing meals all day long. It was crazy. 875 00:58:36,990 --> 00:58:41,690 So I came up this five course menu and I started to 876 00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:44,410 go to culinary school and, 877 00:58:44,830 --> 00:58:49,770 and I had already gone through several culinary adventures in our trips through 878 00:58:49,770 --> 00:58:52,890 Europe. I've been to Paris and Spain and Germany, 879 00:58:53,550 --> 00:58:57,010 but I went to culinary school in Vancouver for a bootcamp. 880 00:58:57,790 --> 00:59:01,370 And so I learned so much. I mean, I considered myself to be a good cook, 881 00:59:01,510 --> 00:59:05,090 but going through this, uh, being the chef to cuisine, 882 00:59:05,410 --> 00:59:07,610 I really had a rise up to the occasion, right? 883 00:59:08,990 --> 00:59:13,850 And so I did everything I can to just become better in the kitchen. 884 00:59:14,430 --> 00:59:15,450 And now, I mean, 885 00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:19,810 everybody who always comes for dinners and lunches and whatnot say, oh my gosh, 886 00:59:19,810 --> 00:59:22,200 this is amazing how to do, how to do. 887 00:59:22,780 --> 00:59:27,440 And so I love helping others overcome challenges 888 00:59:27,940 --> 00:59:31,760 and why not have that being a part of my business? 889 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:36,040 Because why do people don't cook? Why do people have no time? 890 00:59:36,260 --> 00:59:40,680 Why do people think it's complicated or why there's obstacles in the kitchen? 891 00:59:41,180 --> 00:59:42,013 And I thought, well, 892 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:47,520 I can just use that as a side hustle because I love cooking and I love 893 00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:52,480 teaching people the techniques and the methods because 894 00:59:53,110 --> 00:59:55,760 following recipes doesn't teach you anything. 895 00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,900 It doesn't give you the confidence and the clarity and the flavor building 896 01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:05,060 skills. So I decided, hey, I just, 897 01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,940 that's one of my passions, and I will see where it takes me, 898 01:00:08,130 --> 01:00:11,060 what guides me through my life. Susan. There's the, 899 01:00:11,060 --> 01:00:15,820 the principle that guides me through my life is always follow your highest 900 01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:20,940 excitement, keeping a positive mindset, no matter the outcome. 901 01:00:22,460 --> 01:00:27,240 So I decided, hey, I'm gonna try this. And I'm calling it Rock the Kitchen. 902 01:00:28,140 --> 01:00:30,400 And I'm keeping a positive mindset, you know, 903 01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,200 whether that takes me places or not is not the question. 904 01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,360 I am just having fun with it right now. 905 01:00:35,460 --> 01:00:40,400 So I created my first class and I think it can 906 01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,880 be fabulous helping others to, you know, gain more confidence, 907 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,800 have more fun, maybe discover their inner know cook. 908 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,160 I don't know. So that's how Rock the Kitchen was born. So that's my side hustle, 909 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:53,880 . 910 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,240 I love it. I'm curious, did you ever, 911 01:00:56,580 --> 01:00:59,200 in your travels go back to where you grew up? 912 01:00:59,430 --> 01:01:01,840 Have you gone back to see where you had been? 913 01:01:02,740 --> 01:01:05,840 Yes, a few times. Taken pictures. 914 01:01:06,330 --> 01:01:11,040 Could not believe that her hands from 55 years 915 01:01:11,150 --> 01:01:15,320 were still on the windows. The windows seriously unbelievable. 916 01:01:16,260 --> 01:01:17,280 But in the meantime, 917 01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:21,640 because things have changed so much, 918 01:01:21,980 --> 01:01:26,470 and I mean, one thing is East Germany, in my opinion, 919 01:01:26,660 --> 01:01:30,630 will always be behind and will take generations for them to catch up. 920 01:01:31,590 --> 01:01:32,423 But nowadays, 921 01:01:32,470 --> 01:01:37,290 you actually see paint on the walls on the exterior of the 922 01:01:37,290 --> 01:01:40,930 homes, because we had no paint. Everything was gray, right? But now, 923 01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:45,370 so the house I grew up actually has paint and a painted entry door, 924 01:01:45,610 --> 01:01:47,690 I couldn't believe it, it was blue or something. It's like, wow, 925 01:01:47,770 --> 01:01:52,130 I have to take a picture of myself in front of this house. 926 01:01:52,910 --> 01:01:56,690 And a lot of things have changed, you know, there's more, yeah, the, the, 927 01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:57,600 they're, 928 01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:02,290 they're really truly trying to catch up and make it, 929 01:02:02,950 --> 01:02:06,730 you know, put things back together. But I think it will take a long, 930 01:02:06,730 --> 01:02:09,730 long time until you won't see the differences. 931 01:02:11,660 --> 01:02:15,430 What a life you've led and are continuing to lead. It's, 932 01:02:16,140 --> 01:02:19,320 it's really something you have a, a lot of metal 933 01:02:20,860 --> 01:02:21,693 in you. 934 01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:25,670 Yeah. I developed a lot of, you know, 935 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:30,710 tools that helped me to stay on my path and, uh, to, 936 01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:35,590 and I never stop learning and growing. I never stop. 937 01:02:35,790 --> 01:02:40,670 I always educate or surround myself with people who have done what I wanna 938 01:02:40,690 --> 01:02:43,630 do and learn from them and, 939 01:02:43,810 --> 01:02:48,470 and see how it can become even a better version of myself and 940 01:02:49,340 --> 01:02:53,310 what I'm doing right now. So that doesn't mean I'm doing this tomorrow. 941 01:02:53,890 --> 01:02:56,430 So many people ask me, well, how can you switch so many times? 942 01:02:56,690 --> 01:03:00,390 And you guys are moving all the times, aren't you becoming unstable? It's like, 943 01:03:00,450 --> 01:03:05,150 no. I mean, that makes life interesting. I, I love it. I mean, to a degree, 944 01:03:05,150 --> 01:03:07,750 right? I mean, I don't like to wake up and not know where I am. 945 01:03:07,890 --> 01:03:12,230 So that's But overall, I think it keeps life interesting. 946 01:03:12,410 --> 01:03:16,870 And at the end, life is a journey, right? Life is a journey. 947 01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:19,910 And for me, you know, and it's an up and down, 948 01:03:19,980 --> 01:03:22,350 it's a bit of a roller rollercoaster sometimes, 949 01:03:22,730 --> 01:03:27,390 but just enjoying the journey is what I do. 950 01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:28,900 And I would, 951 01:03:28,900 --> 01:03:33,710 I encourage others and try to help others to enjoy the journey of 952 01:03:33,830 --> 01:03:37,230 life because we're literally at the end, Susan, we're only given one life. 953 01:03:37,290 --> 01:03:38,123 That's it. 954 01:03:38,290 --> 01:03:42,790 We have one time chance right now to make the best of our lives. 955 01:03:43,050 --> 01:03:43,910 And it, 956 01:03:43,970 --> 01:03:47,830 it breaks my heart when I see that some people are giving up because they feel 957 01:03:47,830 --> 01:03:50,190 stuck or they will feel, you know, 958 01:03:50,500 --> 01:03:54,310 depressed or there are so many of us, they feel that way. 959 01:03:54,730 --> 01:03:58,150 And I wish I could shake , shake them and say, come on, 960 01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:03,270 let's do this together. Let's, there's more out there for you than just that. 961 01:04:03,370 --> 01:04:08,050 You know? And I've been there, I've been in so many situations, but I, 962 01:04:09,450 --> 01:04:14,370 I now know how to get out of them quicker and not linger in my victim 963 01:04:15,810 --> 01:04:18,980 mode as I used to. I have some, you know, 964 01:04:18,980 --> 01:04:23,260 strategies that help me to just get out of it quicker and uh, 965 01:04:23,490 --> 01:04:27,780 just move on. I'm not saying I never go down that rabbit hole. I do, 966 01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:32,380 but I get out of it. I know how to move. Crawl out of the hole again. 967 01:04:32,770 --> 01:04:34,740 Yeah. Tell people how they might find you. 968 01:04:36,010 --> 01:04:40,060 They can find me. Uh, break loose and fly.com. 969 01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:41,540 So that's my website. 970 01:04:41,540 --> 01:04:45,420 Break loose and fly.com and whoever is interested in the kitchen, 971 01:04:45,650 --> 01:04:50,260 it's rock the kitchen.net. It's not.com, it's dot net. 972 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,660 That's perfect. Thank you so much for telling me your story. It's fascinating. 973 01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,380 And what a rollercoaster. Oh my gosh. 974 01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,570 Yeah. Thanks for having me. It was, uh, it was great talking to you, Susan. 975 01:05:04,220 --> 01:05:04,570 Thank. 976 01:05:04,570 --> 01:05:06,690 You for listening everybody. Bye. 977 01:05:07,610 --> 01:05:08,443 Bye-Bye. 978 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:13,530 Rate review and subscribe to Hey, 979 01:05:13,530 --> 01:05:16,890 human Podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. 980 01:05:16,940 --> 01:05:17,920 Thanks. Bye.