Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here.
Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey Human Podcast.
This is episode 374,
and I had a conversation with Darrell Lamont Jenkins.
Darrell is the founder and executive director of The One Peoples Project.
Growing up in the punk rock music scene,
he was entrenched early on in political activism,
and he founded one people's project to
go up against alt-right groups and hate groups.
He gained a reputation of publicly documenting these groups and has helped
Neo-Nazis leave those circles. He's also a producer,
most Notably Skin, which was based on erasing,
hate the story of another former Hey, human guest, Brian Weidner.
That was episode 31.
Darrell Self-identifies as Antifa and as an anarchist,
really interesting conversation and his story. Super fascinating.
Check out, Hey, human podcast.com for links.
And to learn more about my guests in the show, check out Susan ruth.com.
To learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, follow Susan Ruth.
And hey, human podcast on social media. Find my albums on Spotify,
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And look for my albums. All I ever wanted was everything.
How to Say Goodbye Servicing to Breathe.
They're all out there in the music places.
Check out my relationships and sex show with sexologists and healthcare
practitioner, Mara Edelman. It's on YouTube. Under Are We There yet?
Podcast show rate review, and subscribe to Hey,
human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.
And thank you for listening. Be well. Take care of each other,
lift each other up, be kind. And here we go.
Darryl, Lamont, Jenkins, welcome to Hey, human Podcast.
Hello everybody. Hello, Susan. It's good to see you.
Same, same.
I learned about you actually, a few years ago.
I had interviewed Brian Weidner and he spoke of you
very highly and said how amazing you are. And I put it in my notes,
and I was going through some paperwork the other day and I thought, oh,
wow, I can't believe I never reached out to him. So.
, uh, that was probably.
Gosh,
I wanna say that was 4, 5, 5 years ago maybe, maybe.
More. Yeah, I would think so.
That that would've been about the time everybody was, um,
working with the two of us. And, uh, and I think, um,
because that was when the movie Skin came out, short film and the, uh,
and the feature, and we were just all over the place around that time.
We was talking about 20 18, 4 or five years ago then.
That sounds about right.
Yeah,
because I know Saturday's my birthday and on my birthday in 2018,
I was basically doing press for the, um,
for the movie, um, movie.
We was just doing the junk it all up and down New York City, um,
ended up on the Daily Show. We was, we were just having a ball.
Ryan missed all that, unfortunately, because there were just some things that,
uh, they couldn't, um, they couldn't nail down.
But I definitely made sure that everybody remembered that it's his story and
that it was, um, and he, he did get involved in some of the, um,
interviews here and there,
but unfortunately there were things going on in his life, um,
that kept him away from coming to, um, you know,
participating in the junkets and all of that. But,
but he w but he was still very much so responsible
for why we were out there in the first place. So ,
we had to make sure that this is his story and this is who you are going to
learn from the most. Yeah.
Well, happy birthday.
Much appreciated. I thank you. I'm going to go to a, um,
a punk rock show on that day. Um, my friends, um,
there's a band called The Bouncing Souls that, uh,
that are gonna be playing in Jersey, and I'm gonna be there, .
I love it. That's great. What a fun way to spend a birthday.
Oh, indeed.
Let's get into your story. Where were you born? Where'd you grow up?
I was born here, well, not here where I'm at right now, but, um,
in North New Jersey. I was raised here where I'm at right now. Um, um,
Somerset, New Jersey, uh, you know, had, um,
a father that, uh, that was, that was just basically a teacher, an educator,
a counselor. My mother was a,
also a teacher and a nurse and a missionary.
So you had all these kinds of worlds that were coming in and,
you know, basically being that education was the family business.
'cause it wasn't just us, it was, um, it was also my uncles, um,
my father, my father's brothers. They were all educators. And, you know,
all I did was read World Book Encyclopedia , and,
you know, that was my life. I was the quintessential nerd.
It was World Book in the House. So that's what I read, and that's what I mean,
I just read it religiously.
I shouldn't say religiously because mom would probably get upset about that,
but it should be reading the Bible religiously. But .
Did you have a, a very religious home then with your mom's influence?
Or was it Yes. More grounded in education? Yeah. Okay.
Education. Yes, both. Both because, um, you know,
my mother made sure that our spiritual soul was in check and, um,
mom and dad made sure that, um, the educational,
the not knowledge soul was there too. So, um, you know, I mean, it,
it was important and it still is, it still, it really still is. Um,
it help, uh, it also helps me whenever I have to deal with some of these, um,
religious whack jobs who, um,
for what it's worth or bearing fault witness out there to try as they try to
undermine everybody's freedoms and liberties to think for themselves as they
were allowed to. So it was,
it's really important to maintain that spirituality and such for myself,
not just for some sort of political tactic, but also to make sure that you know,
your soul straight. That, um, you are going to be
good for the rest of your life and beyond, you know, that it, it is important.
The work you do now is caring to make sure that the
people who are marginalized or people who aren't represented right,
or people who are, as you said,
trying to just live their lives freely and come up against those who wish to
oppress them. When you were a, a little kid and growing up in your house,
was there a concept of that also,
or is that something you learned as you got older?
No, that was a concept of that. I mean,
it wasn't like my parents were politically political or anything like that,
and it shouldn't really be a case of being political to think that way. But,
you know, it was always my, um,
it was always my direction to be
there whenever somebody needed help. I mean,
just recognizing the humanity of everybody, you know,
that was always the way I was. Um,
and I also knew that somewhere down the line I was going to be, um,
fighting for people. I mean, I didn't know how, um,
I just knew that the music that I gravitated towards when I was
a kid, the things that I wanted to watch on tv, um,
they spoke to that, they spoke to, um,
me being driven in that direction. I remember when I was in the seventh grade,
I told people I betted them a hundred dollars,
that I would sue the Klan by the year 2000. Um, didn't sue the Klan,
but I don't think anybody cares if I Welch so . But,
but I made up for, um,
but I most certainly did a number on the Klan and other groups out there,
so I guess that would probably make up for it. .
I think that that makes up for it. What, what made you join the military?
You know, simply my father, um,
said it was a good idea because I was looking at college,
I was looking at college, uh, and looking for ways to fund college.
And my father was talking about it was a good way to, um, not only, um,
get money for college, but also, um, get the,
how should I say, um,
get the experience that you were going to need when you apply to jobs and
such. And, um, and that, and that was what I was focused on. Unfortunately,
um, my time in the service was not the most exemplary. Um,
I didn't do the things I wanted to do,
and I didn't do the things they wanted me to do,
so it didn't last long and I was gone. So, um, but I just,
only thing I know to do, uh,
only thing I knew to do from then on was just basically, um, chart my own path,
because that was one of the biggest problems I had. Um,
I didn't feel that, um,
I was in a position to, um,
basically grow within myself. There was, um,
there was nothing there for me in that regard. And, um,
that's the biggest mistake that you can make going into the military thinking
that you are going to be an individual. They will always tell you that. But, um,
and, and it, it cost me, you know, um,
dad was a little annoyed by the fact that I didn't tell him I was kicked out
. But, um,
dad is still was still annoyed for years after I, after I left.
But, um, I think I let a lot of people down in the military,
there were people that were relying on me, people that were friends of mine,
people that were, um, fighting for me when I wasn't fighting for myself,
you know? I mean, but most importantly,
I had a job to do and I failed to do that job. Um,
and because of that, um, I, you know, I gotta live with that.
I gotta live with that. You'll never hear me badmouth soldiers,
you'll never hear me badmouth soldiers.
You'll never really hear me badmouth the military, per se. Um,
even though I'm, I'm a,
I'm a leftist and I do have an issue with the military industrial complex. Um,
you'll never hear me, um,
just dis the service outright. Um, and, and because,
and the main reason why is because I think I owe it to them, not to.
At that time of your life,
was it more about not really knowing who you were yet as a person?
Or were there other things coming at you?
I think it was more or less a case of I knew what I wanted to do in life very
early on. I just didn't know how to do it. So, you know,
took my father's advice and joined the military to get the leg up.
Now my father was right, let's be real. My father was right.
What my father didn't pick up on is the fact that I didn't wanna do that
. And it was also a matter of,
even if I didn't wanna do it, there was a way to do it within the,
do what I wanted to do in the military, and I did everything wrong. So,
you know,
I think it was just really a case of not knowing how to do the things I wanted
to do.
So, and which branch was it?
Air Force, the, the Cadillac of the military? It's probably the, um,
the e it was the, it was the service that you would be,
you would try to join.
It's the closest to civilian life that you can get in the military,
to be honest. And, you know, it didn't work out for me regardless.
. Well, what.
Happened next? Where did you go from there?
Oh, I immediately went into college meeting, went into college,
still failed that one, but . But, um, but even with that,
um, even though I didn't, um, do too high in college,
I still was able to find a little bit more of a footing
and of a direction that I want to go into.
So I really wanted to get into media, and, um,
that's what I was trying to do when I was in the military.
And that failed miserably. But I wanted to get into media.
And that ime and that happened the moment I went into, um,
my first class and all that, started getting myself situated by the time,
um, I left the mil, I left the military. By the time I left school,
I was doing public access shows. I was doing, um,
I was doing in the punk scene more or less. Um,
I was not even more or less, more .
I was definitely in the punk scene here in New Jersey,
particularly New Brunswick, New Jersey. And I started, um,
trying to chart a path that was kind of like off the beaten path.
Uh, so I was kind of like in the underground media,
that's where the public access came in.
I had a little home video camera where I basically videotaped bands that they
was performing, bands that probably never made it. Some bands did,
like the Bouncing Souls, as I mentioned, um,
interviewed them and did just put 'em on blasts on TV shows that I put together.
Did you find yourself drawn to the punk scene because of what that scene
really represents? I think people think of punk music,
and they just think people with shaved heads jumping around in leather and
beating each other up.
But it's really rooted in folks who are trying to stand up against
overbearing authority. The music is very much people.
I think my, um, my motivation towards, um,
what attracted me, I should say,
is the fact that you can come as you are really,
and that was one of the biggest issues that I had, um,
coming up moment I got into the scene,
I felt like, yeah,
I felt like everybody was down to earth enough that I can be a part of it.
I can, um, be one with this crowd because, 'cause beforehand,
you know, I got out of the military and I started trying to hook up with, um,
one music scene after another,
but everybody had put on airs and you couldn't really talk to them unless
you really, um, hung out with them. And,
and a lot of people were really hard to hang out with. And on top of that,
it really wasn't, the really wasn't the style of music that I was going, um,
going for. I mean, yes, I listened to Metal, I listened to hip hop, of course,
but it was more about, you know,
I don't hear me in any of the songs that were really popular at the time,
or really, um, what everybody was singing.
When I got into that punk scene, I heard it all. I heard it all.
And the best thing about it is when people got off that stage,
they sat, um, they sat in the au,
they became a part of the audience and cheer the next band on,
and then we all went to somebody's house to chill out.
And then you found out that other people were in bands and they all wanted to
start bands, and you didn't even have to know how to play all that well,
, it was just an opportunity to,
as I said, be who you wanna be, however you wanna be, you came as you are.
And then we got into the political stuff, and then we got into the more,
um,
aggressive nature of how we approached life ,
you know, when we, when we can, um, when we was,
you know, you can be critical about,
say Ronald Reagan or George Bush and all of that as a Democrat or as an
anarchist. One thing to be critical, another thing to say, okay,
so what are we going to do about George Bush? And I went towards,
in the direction of what we were going to do,
not necessarily about George Bush, but also how are we going to, um,
deal with this issue that we have right here. We, um,
we're trying to urge people to, um,
donate money to the, uh, you know, um,
such such fund to, um,
help people eat or something like that.
Or you could start a food bank, yourself.
You don't have to wait for anybody.
That's where I started coming in with the bump scene,
that whole d i y doit Yourself attitude that came along with it,
that was important to me. And that's why, you know,
that's why I called it home. I still call it home.
Did you feel like an underdog growing up at all?
Did you feel like you, your, I mean,
obviously you're a black guy when you were growing up in that era,
I think there was a whole other thing going on. I don't know about New Jersey,
but certainly across the country where there was a lot of marginalization, the,
you know, the, the plan destruction of black communities and all that.
Did you experience any of that?
It's weird because I didn't think of it as, I,
I didn't really consider myself marginalized in that
regard. Not, not that, not that, you know, black people were catching hell. But,
you know, I grew up in the suburbs. I grew up in black suburbs, no less.
So I saw black people doing okay, but I also saw what, um,
things on the news that made you go, okay,
there are people who don't like that all that much. So,
but I wasn't really politically rooted until
after I started reading a little bit more. Um,
Dick Gregory started listening to Whoopi Goldberg a little, um,
when she first came out, public Enemy started coming in. I mean,
I was politically astute, um,
but I really just went above and beyond, um,
after I started hearing people say things that I needed to hear, you know?
And that wasn't until, um, six months before I got kicked out of the military.
So I wonder why that happened.
Well, I was just gonna say, I mean, I can imagine I'm the,
as you spoke to a minute ago,
the military is about creating a hive mind and not about an individual.
If you were an individual in the military, they root that out pretty quickly.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that doesn't surprise me that if you were trying to individualize
within that system, that doesn't really mesh well.
It's weird because August 11th, um,
of this year is gonna be the 50th anniversary of hip hop.
August 11th, 1988, I was in Col
and I saw basically the history of hip hop. You had
onic come on stage. I was actually in, um,
serving in the military with, um,
the brother of someone from Stetsasonic Daddy's brother. And,
uh, so there was that. Then you had E P M D,
who I was, um, who, who just started coming up, just started, um, coming up.
They started putting the banner up for Public Enemy.
Everybody was wondering who Public Enemy was. They didn't know.
And everybody was just waiting to see what they would sound like, and they,
we all didn't know what the hell hit us after that.
. Yeah, for sure.
And that was the turning point, . And then, you know,
it was actually Run D M C's show, um, you know,
DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Princes came on after, um, after, um, public Enemy,
and they definitely tore it up. Um, one D M C tore it up, but I came, I,
I was going home thinking, um, you know, uh, the Public Enemy,
Public Enemy to this day is my favorite, um,
my favorite hip hop crew of all times. So this is like,
I was so glad I went to that show.
But that show pretty much got me kicked out of the military because my
attitude changed. I got in trouble. I,
I got my final bit in trouble was me cussing out my supervisor
in January of 89. Um,
and that was just a couple of months after I saw the show.
My attitude was changing. Um,
but it doesn't negate the fact that I was still, you know,
not doing the best job I could when I was in the military. But,
but part of the reason why was 'cause I didn't belong there. And, you know,
I was just really feeling stymied for real after I saw that
show. And I was like, I gotta get out. I have no business here.
A a couple of months before then, I actually got annoyed because, um,
there was a spin article, a a cover story on LL Cool J,
um, and Public Enemy. And this is how I first, I mean, I,
I heard Public Enemy before, um, because I had,
this was at a time when you could buy hip hop albums without
listening to them and not be disappointed.
And I bought Public Enemy's first album that way. .
I liked what I saw on the back cover. I was reading this article
and they started slamming. Um,
they really started slamming Public Enemy in it, the opening,
who was opening for ll on this particular tour. And, uh,
and they particularly got upset because Chuck D had said something
about how they're fighting the Klan,
and they did the typical thing that they did in the eighties.
They basically said that even the black people were annoyed by that saying, oh,
we just won our lesson, our music. I was like, oh, other? No, no.
This is what we wanna listen to. I mean, and, um,
and it was a couple of months later,
I got a chance to see Public Enemy Live and see exactly what they were
complaining about in that Spin magazine. I said, oh, what's wrong with this?
And by the way,
I actually knew that Public Enemy was going to do that because bring the noise.
And, um, Bel Without a Pause was, um, was on, um,
was on the radio at the time. And, you know,
they were saying things like Farrakhan was Farrakhan's a prophet,
and they think he ought to listen to. And there was a loud,
proud supporter of Che Mar as a kid. Remember,
I really wasn't involved in politics yet, but as a kid, I never heard that.
I never heard people defend Farrakhan. I never heard people defend Ches,
ma A k a Osada Shakur, you know?
So when I heard it on the record, I was like, what ,
what did I just hear really? Now? Okay,
my job in the military was a police officer. I was in my Gate Shack,
Cameron Republic enemy ing this. And I was like, man, wow. And I,
and I wasn't hit until I actually saw them in on, um, on stage. And.
Do you feel like in that moment it woke up the thing that you were always
going to be?
Yeah. 'cause I do remember, um, leaving the show, um,
saying, saying to myself, um,
I am never gonna be told that I can't do something anymore.
And that's all I heard while I was in the military. I said, that's gonna stop.
So yeah, I definitely had, like I said, I had an attitude after
I had an attitude, not, not naked attitude, but, you know, yeah.
I knew that there was a direction I needed to go into.
And that's when I started, um,
getting into more arguments with folks in the gay shack,
political arguments and that. And, um, but, um, but, you know,
respectful arguments. Sure. But I was talking about Whoopi Goldberg's, um,
what Whoopi Goldberg was saying on her, um, cassette tape. I mean,
I was listening to some of her, um, her H B O special on tape at the time,
and that also resonated with me, the second one, um,
where it was just fontine, the character, the character Fontine. Yeah,
I remember that. That was really, that was really what, um,
sent me. Yeah, that really what sent me. And, you know, Dick Gregory,
I started reading more of his books or his old books from back in the sixties.
And, um, I was learning a lot from that. I was just like,
I can't do any of this while I'm here. So, you know,
once I got out of the military, I just basically hit the ground running.
How can I, and when I got out of the military,
it was about the same time the Central Park jogger thing happened.
A couple of months later, Bensonhurst happened, and then, you know,
everything started to snowball.
Ed Koch got fired and David Dinkins came in and Oh, boy, I mean,
this, this was the world I was growing. Um, I was,
I was leaving the Air Force to go into and it was like, yeah,
I'm gonna be busy. And I wasn't in a punk scene yet.
I was still trying to figure out what direction I was going into in regards to
that.
As a kid, since you were growing up insulated, you know,
you had a great family. Yeah. You were in a suburb that was, you know, you,
you weren't trying to find people that looked like you.
I think representation was all around and successful, happy. We had.
We had black history courses in our school. Yeah.
We had an African American history course. Everything was fine.
My parents knew exactly what neighborhood they wanted to raise their kids in.
Sure. So when you left the bubble of that loveliness,
and now suddenly you're out of the military, there's rhetoric on the news,
in the music, everything around you,
how did that shape you being a black man in America too?
Because suddenly this kid who grew up going, what's the big deal,
is now realizing it's a big deal of how
people are being treated?
Yeah, because I think when I was in the,
remember I said I was a cop when I was in the military,
and boy was that an eyeopener.
It was an eyeopener as to how I should conduct myself as a black man,
number one. And number two, how people,
how other police officers saw black people, um,
in the military, even when we were in the military.
But there was also the thing about how, um,
every how women were treated, I mean,
I don't even wanna start talking about the homophobia because unfortunately it
was the eighties,
and even I got caught up in that because it was during the time of aids. I mean,
I wasn't, I wouldn't say that I was a homophobe, but I was a homophobe.
You know, it, it, there was, um, I mean, you know, you had,
you had the attitudes that, um, you know,
that were prevalent if you,
if you were caught up too much in the mainstream of any society,
you're going to get caught up in the bad as well as the good.
And that was the bad. I didn't, I wasn't mean to anyone or anything like that.
I was just, I guess,
a centrist about it because I never met anyone that was gay. You know,
what changed all of that, when I met my first gay person,
that should not be the case. That should not.
And I met my first gay person at the fir at the first punk show.
I went to .
That was quite an education that punk show, .
Yes, it was. I mean, I, I mean, it, it wasn't so much that I was,
um, homophobic or anything like that. I mean, you know,
I'm bouncing back and forth me saying I was, and I wasn't.
But the truth of the matter is, I don't think, um, but I had to learn it. It,
there was a learning curve that I had to get on.
And like immediately when the AIDS crisis hit,
um, I was very uncomfortable about the jokes,
for example. I mean, I knew some, I knew that something was,
I knew something was very wrong about how Rock Hudson was treated.
And I mean, his entire career was just like, wiped out.
Now that was all anybody knew him. And then same. And then when Liberace died,
um, I don't, I'm not sure whether or not if it was in fact aids,
but when that, but when there was rumblings, I was like,
you're about to do that to Liberace too. But again,
none of that mattered.
None of that resonated with me until after I got on that to start really
enjoying the world.
I really do think it wasn't so much trauma
that put me on, um, the path, you know,
put me on a political path or anything,
but just the fact that I was really experiencing life more,
you know, once I got out of the military, especially when I was in the military,
I saw a lot of negative, but I didn't resonate with me yet.
When I started going to college and started going, um,
being involved in the scenes more, um,
I really started to enjoy the people around me and felt
I needed to protect them.
I really just thinking about it as we're going along here,
that's why I like doing these things. .
You founded One People's Project,
which is an anti-fascist. It confronts nationalism, it confronts racism,
confronts homophobia, confronts all the, the isms schisms.
Right?
What made you decide it was time, as you said,
to not be a part of something, but to do the thing and, you know,
not to join someone else's, but to start your own?
Well, it was, it also goes back to, um, I knew what I wanted to do,
but didn't know how, um,
I really had been following and just keeping an eye on the white
supremacists for a long time, but only if they showed up on tv. It was, um,
when, uh, I was in, when I was in the Air Force, I was in my dorm,
I turned on the tv and Oprah Winfrey was going after some white supremacists
who called themselves skinheads. Um,
and we were just learning about them in the mainstream. And
that made me realize that I need to start keeping a file,
rather start recording a lot of these, um,
racist groups whenever they show up on TV so I can study them.
When I got out the Air Force,
I started studying talk radio because they started talking like the folks that I
saw on all those shows. I mean,
and I'm talking about not just like Rush Limbaugh or somebody like that,
because he was doing that, but there was a guy in New York named Bob Grant,
who would let neo-Nazis leave that contact information on his, um, airwaves.
He was on 77 W A B C , which, and,
and for someone to be on that mainstream of a, um,
outlet says that, yeah, we better pay attention. Of course,
pat Buchanan was out there saying things that made me raise an eyebrow or two
there,
and I didn't realize where he was going until really started paying attention.
So, you know, we're watching all of this. We're watch,
and there were very few opportunities to go after full on
neo-Nazis or white supremacists here in the state of New Jersey. Um,
but I was still documenting and I was still, um,
keeping an eye on whatever it was anybody was doing at the time.
And then in 2000,
there was a white supremacist rally being held in, um, Jersey,
and we had to mobilize.
And because I had to new on a lot of compiling of information,
I had all the information anybody needed to deal with the various individuals.
We started a website, um, to coordinate, um,
our counter efforts. Um, after the rally,
we used the website to not only coordinate efforts to help people that were
getting arrested, but all that had gotten arrested,
but also to keep learning more and more,
keep helping people learn more and more about the, uh,
white supremacists that we had, um, dealt with.
And we expanded it to all of them. And matter of fact,
we expanded it to anyone that was on the right or slash far right.
Because our, um, initial meeting was to,
um, our initial, uh,
mission was to show the connections between that far right
and the mainstream. Right. And, and we were pretty good at it, .
We were very good at it.
And that was really the beginnings of all people's thrive.
Was it easy to find like-minded people to help you to get into
the flow?
No, it was not. Matter of fact, that's why we're a small group today, because,
you know, people want, um, you know, you have a lot of people who were, um, who,
who are active, but they, um,
can sometimes get caught up in the tried and true methods, you know,
like being out there in the streets and all of that. Um,
whenever they announce that there's going to be, um,
a rally on the courthouse with they being the, um, the neo-Nazis for that, we,
we hoped to be there. We planned to be there. We planned to counter them.
We wanted to get a little deeper.
We wanted to get them on their off time .
And our thing has always been going back to being a nerd,
was studying them, um, trying to find out who they are,
where they come from and, and what they're about,
and putting that on websites so people can have the information.
That has been our mission since 2000.
You have gone and gotten into, I would say, people's faces,
but you've had all sorts of interactions. You've had conversation,
you've gotten into brew hahas mm-hmm.
.
Yeah. How does one or how do you particularly
approach somebody who has this mindset in order to,
I mean, is your goal, I'm sorry, I'm like tripping over myself.
Is your goal to change their mind, or is your goal to say,
we know you're doing this bully energy, we're not gonna stand for it.
Just know you're on watch,
there's people out here that know what's going on and what you're doing,
and we're not not gonna let you get away with this. What is your mindset?
My mindset is to protect those that I care about.
My mindset is to protect the society and communities that I care about.
That is always going to be first and foremost, um,
my mission in life. Um, sometimes we,
that involves having a conversation with the other side,
if that's possible. Other times it does mean straight up fighting.
Now fighting them means being aggressive in trying to keep them
from positions of power other times and try to make this as
the last resort as much as you can. But other times it does mean swinging. Now,
years ago in like in the nineties, we went straight to the swinging,
but , but back. But you know,
when you are 32, 33, 40, uh,
try not to do that as much. I, at least I try not to do that as much,
but it's there. It's there. And it all depends on how,
um, they are approaching you. You know? I mean,
the movie Skin actually puts, um, shows this in the beginning. I mean,
it shows the two, the yins to the yang. Yeah. I'm gonna be, um,
yelling and screaming and talking trash to you, you in your little rally.
Um, if you are aggressive towards me, I'm gonna be aggressive towards you,
you know? And on the other hand, if you wanna talk,
if you wanna chill, if you want to, um, try to make your case even,
um, I'll, I'll lend in here, we'll talk. Sure.
Um, and if you're looking the way to get out, I'm there for you too. I mean,
I'd rather you not be an enemy , you know, I mean, I'd rather,
um, the situation would be that, um, there is less fighting and less,
um, tensions between the two sides. So if there's any opportunity,
um, that arises, that allows for that, yeah. I'm going to take.
In your experience, and I think of Brian,
who obviously was in one of the most violent, dangerous,
white supremacist skinhead groups,
and then turned the corner and was actively speaking out against it
and credited you at, when I interviewed him, at least in,
in 20 18, 20 17, whenever that was,
that he spoke of you as one of his best friends.
Just a huge arc of an experience.
What do you personally think is the thing that draws people
into being racist or homophobic or
whatever, again, whatever it is that they've decided to hate for hate's sake.
And what is the key to pulling them out of that?
You know, everybody comes from someplace, you know, and I think
when that someplace for certain people is a dead end,
or at least seems like a dead end,
they wanna try to change that because they gotta live that life. And
when you're frustrated, when you have a lot of that, um,
psychological damage that comes from such dead ends, um,
you reaching out to anybody who can help turn,
help turn you around and put you on, um, some good footing or what have you,
and I think it's always a matter of who those individuals
end up being. Sometimes it can be a positive thing,
like say a religious group or a a a civic organization or
our side , you know, other times it can be, um,
the, um, the white supremacist, the neo-Nazis, the far right, whatever,
whatever is, um, whatever is there to say, you know,
we'll keep you afloat is gonna be where you're gonna go. And, um, and,
and that's what we see.
We are fighting people who are basically fighting themselves
in many respects. You know, there's that old saying, hurt people,
hurt people .
And when it comes to dealing with them,
even though we are assertive against them in one fashion or another,
um,
we also recognize their humanity and try our best to help them
recognize it. I mean, that's a line that I use all the time, but it's an, um,
but it's an important line to note, not just, um,
to help people understand where we're coming from,
but to understand where society in general is coming from.
Because society really doesn't want this kind of
drama. I mean, we have built a pretty nice society around here, right?
And people should learn,
people should be able to appreciate it. All people,
even the ones we have issues with, and
unfortunately,
and so we try to encourage those that we do have issues with to
get off the high horse, for lack of a better term, and start, um,
looking at what you're missing. You know.
What happens when, as you spoke to in the beginning of this conversation,
people hide behind a God front in order
to spout their hate. Then how do you,
how do you go up against a God image?
Well, again, it always will depend on the individual.
Um, however, having said that, um,
it does require, um,
a recognition that when you're starting to deal with, um,
people who are coming from that, um, Christian Wright kind of thing,
um, that there's something else going on,
something else that's totally removed from, uh,
um, you know, spirituality, you know, now, uh,
'cause and, and that is what I'm dealing with in this day and age. Now, you, I,
I let, let me preface that by saying that in, um,
say like the early nineties, you did have evangelicals that were in fact,
evangelicals that did truly believe in God,
that did truly believe in serving him.
But when you are dealing with, um, the folks today,
now it's just a tactic. Um,
and I'm gonna have to preface that even further because I,
um, because I was at the Mounts valid Liberty conference, um, here in, uh,
in Philadelphia about a month or so ago, almost a month ago, believe it or not.
Wow. Um, and there was a speaker,
the president of the Heritage Foundation named Kevin Roberts,
was hyping up a book called Roots of the American Order
by, um, Russell Kirk.
Russell Kirk is known as a guru of conservative
ideals to other conservatives. Um,
I look at him as a segregationist,
as a hate monger and as an anti-Semite,
because that's what he was. And he has written extensively on all of that.
Um, but the one thing that, um,
he had said that he has said in the past is that,
God, you don't choose God. God chooses you.
And no, that's not how this works. .
You are supposed to come to Jesus . You know, I mean,
and this is,
and this is what how Christianity has been for over a couple of thousand years.
Um, you are, I mean, God has,
Jesus has died on the cross for your sins,
and you are to accept him as your Lord and personal savior. It isn't.
Jesus died on the cross for the living heck of it. And,
and you can come, you can come if he chooses you.
That idea that you're anointed in hate. See, I've been anointed to Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So it's like, so we already know the point,
that point I'm making is that we're already coming from a position
where they are lying about their faith, where they are bearing false witness.
And that means it's phony. Okay?
That means it's phony. And so, you know,
when you're dealing with these characters coming up to you in the name of
God and liberty, it's all game. It's all a lie.
You are going, coming in that direction. You are coming from that direction.
Even if you are not even about, um, faith and not even about spirituality,
about God or Christianity, whatever,
you are more real than they are when you're dealing with today's conservatives.
And this is one of the reasons why, um,
the foundation that they had 30 years ago is non-existent.
So when you're dealing with today's conservatives,
you're dealing with people who are not trying to build, not trying to evolve,
not trying to create, they're trying to win.
That's all that matters. They just wanna win.
And they have been steadily losing for the past 60 years.
And the only thing that matters to them is that they turned that around.
Remember,
the whole thing about Donald Trump is that there was going to be so much winning
that they were going to get tired of winning. You know, that, that's a whole,
that's the whole message right there.
But when they win,
they lose because everybody loses when they
deconstruct everything that was supposed to make
this society and this nation
the bastion of freedom that it was supposed to be. Granted,
there's some bumps along the road. I'm a black man, I better say that, .
Um, but in the end,
this society is supposed to be a society where you are supposed to have
liberty and freedom,
and they have taken it away in the name of preserving it.
And that's, and,
and the only reason why they're doing it is because the world doesn't revolve
around their white Christian, male dominated, um,
hierarchy , and
they don't know what to do with themselves. Because.
It's so bizarre to me as I watch the politicians
take more and more rights away from people and the people handing them over
freely in some cases,
and all the while saying about how they believe in a government that's less
involved. And yet as we're seeing move across the nation,
the massive oversteps of people's civil,
human rights, liberties, all of this is mind boggling.
It all goes back to the fact that they don't believe in a single word of what
they're saying. Again, they're just trying to win.
They're saying the right things to the right people so that they can,
um, so that they can go ahead. Ultimately, if you really think about it,
a lot of today's conservatives aren't even doing it because they believe in it.
They're doing it to get paid. I mean, that there is,
I I remember when conservatives, um,
will come at you with some sort of skin in the game,
but you look at somebody like Charlie Kirk from Turning Point u s a,
he just got a couple of thousand dollars from some billionaire or some,
or some benefactor, I don't know if he was a billionaire, but, um,
to just start turning point you and say, it's not his money.
We've heard them on hot mics, we've heard them in emails to each other or,
or texts to each other. They don't even believe the crap they're saying,
but they know if they say it loud enough and often enough Exactly,
they're gonna make millions of dollars.
Whether it be exactly being a talking head or a book or a,
it's the same thing with like the Y two K craze. And to,
to put it in some other context,
everyone's saying the end of the world was coming and who made all the money,
the people writing books about it, the people building bombs or, or whatever,
preppers, or there are people taking deep, deep advantage,
financial advantage of those who are easily
made afraid.
And that's what, that's what irks me about Charlie Kirk.
That's what irks me about Candace Owens. That's what irks me about Tommy Lauren.
Those three individuals, none of 'em had real world experience.
None of them have ever had a real job in their lives. And they're,
they're young and they don't even think they have to anymore because somebody
gave them money to agitate against the rest of society,
the rest against those that actually do work for living. You know, I mean,
it really annoys me. And, and Ben Shapiro actually put this out. Um,
now Ben Shapiro really annoys me because you are talking about pretty much a
child prodigy. This dude got his law degree at 22.
He was on, I mean, he,
he's a brilliant s o b .
Yeah. It's usually very smart. People are, are, look at the forefront of this.
The problem is, the problem is he gave,
somebody gave him some money he, he started working with Right. But,
and all that, he's not using it to practice law.
He's now a grift. He's now just as one of the grifters.
And he made it clear when somebody was, um, insulting him,
somebody was calling him out and he says, yeah, I'll go,
I I'll think about that when I'm laying on my bed of money.
And then when he said that, said, that's all it's about.
Yeah, of course. It's, and hate pays so much better than love.
Mm-hmm. .
Mm-hmm. . He does. I mean, that's why, you know, I have,
I have a job right now. This is basically that's,
other than what I do for a living, what I do here,
I have a job that pays the bills, their job, um,
their job is to go after those trying to pay the bills. That's it. I mean,
I, I love it whenever we go out there and protest and these idiots on TV talking
about, um, uh, do they have real jobs? Um, do,
do you work or anything like that, like Sean who said, or,
or even complaining about professional activists and such. And I,
and I was about to say Sean is in Sean Hannity, because I was gonna say, well,
Sean, who pays your checks? I mean,
Ruper Murdoch's name is on your million dollar checks.
All you do is, is be an activist professional.
You know, that's all your job. You go up there to talk trash about everybody,
everybody that's doing something. That's, that's really what, um,
what I say about people like Ann Coulter and such that they're talking about
what we're doing. Do you.
Do you consider yourself Antifa? And what does that mean to you,
and how did it get manipulated to mean something else in your
mind?
I'm Antifa without question or apology.
One people's project email address for the past 20 years was Antifa is Antifa
and one people's project.com. You know, Antifa, um,
is short for anti-fascist, and if you are against fascism, you're Antifa.
Plain and simple. It's been like that since the twenties. Nothing's changed.
What did change is the need to build up an enemy,
the need to take down an enemy and the need to, um,
to propagandize and raise money pretending that you're going after that enemy.
That's why you would see so many,
and this is the other thing that goes along with the, um, conservative grifts,
so many propaganda things that are just straight up lies
that aren't truthful about, um,
a single thing that's going on out there. Like,
the biggest thing that I really annoyed, um, anti-fascists, um,
a couple of years ago was they would mobilize the right,
especially these far right characters were mobilized because they saw something
online saying in Antifa,
it's pronounced Antifa.
So I make jokes about that one time that Antifa was supposed to be,
um, going to this, um,
spot in a small town somewhere where none of us go
. And so they will, in one case, it was Gettysburg,
it was the, um, Gettysburg and Norway apartment, nobody,
and taken down confederate flags that weren't there to begin with. Um,
and they were mobilized. They would have their, um, um,
events talking about how they're there to stop Antifa or Antifa or whatever.
And when we don't show up, they say it was a victory. It's like, no, wasn't,
we weren't planning on going out there in the first place.
And in the case of Gettysburg, it was comedy because, um,
one of them found a way to shoot themselves while they were waiting for Antifa
to show. Um, there's guy named, I mean, there,
there's so many kind of propagandizing routines that they pauses ridiculous.
There's one guy who pretends that he was, um,
was Antifa back when he was in high school and all of that, and no one knew.
No one knows who he was or is, you know,
but he makes a lot of money writing books and doing, um,
and doing speaking engagements, talking about his time as an amplify. And he,
and the only thing that you can find on him politically,
is when he started a libertarian group in his, um, when,
in his college days. And he was so,
he was always been right wing in the public eye until he decided
to pretend that he was Antifa.
I'm not saying his name for the sake of not giving him any credence,
because he hasn't been heard from in a while.
The thing that really surprised me is how
fired up people get on lies, and that they,
they really will just take it at face value and not dig any deeper than just the
surface, which says a,
I think a lot about what the nature is in their heart of what they wanna
believe. I remember people saying, oh,
the Black Lives Matter protests are destroying Portland and it's on fire,
or New York's this or that. And I have friends all over the country,
so I just called up my friends in Portland, Hey, are you guys okay? Is,
are things falling apart talking to actual people that live there?
And everyone said, everything's fine. There's no,
I don't know what that's all about, but that's not true.
And I would report that back and they would say, Nope, that's,
that's not true. Um, and I say,
I'm talking to the people that literally live there and they're saying,
the things you are being shown are a lie.
Mm-hmm.
,
but their hearts wanna believe the lie before they believe the truth,
because it supports whatever stuff is going on inside of them.
It's weird too, because I remember, I mean,
I've been to Portland a couple of times.
The only people that were really doing violence in the times that I were there
were the police and the proud boys . And matter of fact,
the last time I was in Portland, it was, um,
proud boys that were attacking people and turning over their vehicles.
One of them's in jail right now for that nonsense. Um, but,
but that gives you an idea of, yeah, it's more in, it's,
it's easier to believe the lies in some cases,
for some people it's more important.
I remember watching Jordan Kle of the Daily Show,
Um, having, um, a discussion with, um, with one of, um,
with a Trump supporter who had said something about John Bolton and all of that.
And he challenged her on, um, on a particular point.
And when he made that point about John Bolton and expected
her to, um, change her position, she just simply said, I don't care.
She didn't even care what the facts were. You know,
and that's when you realize you're dealing with something very different than,
um, I should say reason ,
you're dealing again with people who just need to win
no matter how much, uh, how wrong they are,
no matter how much they're losing.
Or who need to.
To how much.
Or they need to attach deeply to hate mm-hmm.
because it makes them feel empowered or better than as long as
there's somebody or something to hate for whatever reason,
it triggers that dopamine,
cocaine response in their brain and the hate becomes the drug.
Yeah, it does. And, uh, I mean,
no better example on that is why I'm gonna be in Nashville in about a month
because, um,
there's gonna be a white supremacist conference that has been going on at
Montgomery Bell Park, um, for about a decade now,
for about 10 years now. And we're gonna do what we always do.
We're gonna be protesting against it. And, uh,
they get very little opposition. Um, hopefully that'll change this year.
And, uh, but because of that, they feel comfortable,
comfortable enough that, um,
in 2017 it was the organ,
the organizers of Charlottesville went there to organize and network and
get people out there. And when we saw what happened two weeks later,
um, this year, but there.
But there are people who still think that the people that died in
Charlottesville were paid actors crisis. I mean, there's actively.
That just goes back to the line that they need to tell themselves in, um,
in order to, um, in order to maintain,
in order to maintain themselves. You know, you know, I mean,
basically every time a white supremacist shows up and we know that white
supremacists, um, they just call 'em feds. They're, they're feds.
This is the Fed op and all of that.
And it was so funny because I was also in Idaho whenever Patriot Front had
gotten arrested, and,
and this was a couple of months after I saw them at the American Renaissance
Conference. And when they were getting arrested, they, um,
there was a guy who was, um, trying to, um, who, who had basically organi,
and by the way, I should say, when Patriot Front got arrested,
they was trying to crash a Pride fest in Idaho,
and there were people outside that were protesting it, um,
or trying to protest it and trying to march against it.
The main guy that was trying to march against it, um,
was trying to say that Patriot fronts, um, getting arrested,
that's just the Fed op. Those all the Patriot front members are feds, yada,
yada, yada.
His right hand man sons were among those getting
arrested . So, oh, oh, and by the way, speaking of,
of the, that particular crowd, when you hear groups like Monster Liberty,
when you hear the, um,
agitation against the L G B T Q community because they trying to
go after groomers and such,
when you think about the fact that Patriot Funk was trying to storm and trying
to, um,
cause some upheaval at a Pride Fest note that one of the guys that got
arrested sitting in jail right now, because when he got arrested,
they found child porn on his phone. Well.
That's the other thing that's so frustrating. They scream, there's the rhetoric,
rhetoric now screaming that lgbtq plus or dry queens are groomers.
And the, the truth of the matter is they're not looking in their own family,
their own churches, their own coaches, all these things are coming out.
None of those folks are LGBTQ or,
or drag queens that are doing this stuff,
and yet they're just doubled down and triple down. And it's like, you know what?
Take care of your own house first.
Well see that more than anything else really needs to be addressed by us.
If we wanna see it, see it go away.
Because I always thought that it was weird how
Q Anon and all of them decided to use pedophile as a, um,
as a pejorative against people that they are fighting with,
just out of the blue,
just call 'em a pedophile regardless of whether or not you know anything about
the person. Um, now we have this campaign against,
um, trans people against the L G B T Q community, um,
in the name of protecting children.
And then we just keep on getting one story after another
about these individuals from the right, um,
from, uh, our religious groups that are themselves, um,
assaulting children. Um, I, I told people, look,
sooner or later we're gonna find out somebody that went to the MO for Liberty
conference, um, was, uh,
is getting jammed up because they themselves are abusing the children.
They themselves are watching child porn or whatever, and
that tells us, nevermind the fact that they're hypo,
they're, they're, they're not hypocrites. They're trying,
I think in many respects,
they're trying to deflect from a lot of what they see
in their circles a lot of what we all see from their circles. I mean,
remember we was all going after the Catholic priests,
um, just, just a couple of years ago, just about a dec decade or two ago,
um, a couple of years after Sena O'Connor was telling us to do it,
and she got basically chased outta the country for that. Um,
incidentally, one I used to, um, infiltrate, um,
anti-choice activists, and I went to one of their churches and,
uh, the,
the pastor of one of those churches is on that list of Catholic priests.
Um, I found that out just a couple of months ago. And
if we do have that issue every time they come at us,
every time they come at anybody in the name of protecting children,
we should say exactly what you say, take care of your own backyard,
but add a caveat, take care of your own backyard, or we will do it for you.
Every accusation is a confession, but we gotta go beyond complaining about it.
We really do have to start putting pressure on them to start taking care of
their own backyard. We're not just gonna tell 'em, and here's the way,
here's what we're going to have to do.
We're going to have to just go after what supports them.
They're saying, look, you got, I mean,
we don't even have to mention the fact that they are, um,
that they are coming after everyone else, you know,
trying to cancel people in na trying to cancel books in the name of, um,
protecting children in the name of protecting children.
We need to go after their institutions.
We need to make sure that the whole thing about Miles for Liberty is, um,
we, we basically went after the Marriott for even hosting them.
And we have to start putting the pressure on
any institution that caters to this particular crowd. If,
if we find out that someone from their crowd has, um,
has been engaged in that kind of activity. I, I think of, um, the group,
the, the conservative political action conferences run by, um,
match slapp. I mean, the CPAC is really huge when it comes to, um,
conservative networking and, um, organizing that,
that conference happens every year.
We should be putting pressure on the National Harbor Resort in Maryland
to say, because of m sch slaps pass activities,
um, uh, rather accusations regarding, um, how he has, um,
sexually assaulted or what have you. Um,
one of Herschel Walker's aides campaign aides.
We really gotta start. And, um,
and you gotta bear in mind also cpac that also means you have a number of people
that are also been coming through that particular conference that,
that have such accusations. We need to stop, um,
putting pressure on the venues like National Harbor or whatever is in Orlando,
Florida, and start saying,
do we want to cater to their deflections?
We have to start putting the pressure on venues
and other institutions
that help this nonsense along as and say, stop doing that.
Over. I keep all over.
On the vine.
All over social media. There's all these posts about the new movie, about the,
the children trafficking. And I keep saying, you know,
there's been like 20 really excellent documentaries, not based on a true story,
but actual true stories of movies and of organizations that are trying to
stop this. But those folks don't seem to wanna talk about any of that stuff.
They only wanna, but we do talk about this hyper politicized movies.
But we do.
Yeah.
Yeah, we do. So use the movie,
which I heard was pretty good, but, but whatever, um,
use the movie to advance those groups.
I agree. I don't, it's a good.
Oh, so you like the Sound of freedom, you like the Sound of Freedom? Well,
these are groups that are actually yes. Dealing with human trafficking. This.
Is my.
Argument. Kill them. Hypo. Hypo. Yeah. I mean that's,
that's how you use the movie.
And I'm gonna remember anytime somebody talks to me about the Sound of Freedom,
I'm gonna say, look, there's these groups and, and, and I would even ask, um,
if you can't, I don't know how you do it on your, um,
I don't know how you set up when you, uh, show the podcast.
I would say maybe list it in this podcast when you in the, um,
I have a link page for this podcast. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. Every time I see anyone post about that movie, I always say, Hey,
since you're into this, check out these movies. And also,
and then I look for whichever state and I say,
this is the organization in your neck of the woods that has,
uh, that is working very tirelessly to,
and human trafficking and sex trafficking of children and all of that.
But here's the, yeah, I mean, that I've found is that the ball drops there.
Yeah. They.
Wanna be angry and yell and scream,
but they don't actually wanna be part of the solution.
But we know people do wanna be part of the solution. We do.
We know people that are the solution. That will be part of the solution.
I think we have to recognize who those individuals were on
are on the right that are using the, um, sound of freedom for political,
um,
for political needs and ignore all that
because there is a real problem, reason why it is so successful,
um, is because it is, uh, it is a real problem.
It's based on a true story and it needs to be addressed needs.
We can talk about those that are in fact addressing.
And that's, and that, and by the way,
a number of those groups are run by people from the L G B T
Q community, you know, and though,
and that's how you use, you don't even have to trash the movie.
You don't even have to talk about the movie. I.
Have no feelings.
You don't even have to see the movie. Yeah. Just say,
if this is your concern, if you're concerned about this,
this is where we should be going.
We should really be boosting these groups up ourselves. Say, Hey,
we've been doing this all along Q Anon, hasn't we have, we,
so if you're concerned about it, this is where you go.
This is where you go to find, and we don't e we don't have to go tit for tat.
No.
I agree.
Say yo, it's just like whenever people talk about where, um,
they always come at me about black crime, but no matter what the argument,
no matter what the discussion, and they always say the same thing, says,
you always see people marching against the police.
Where don't they marching against the crime in their communities?
My easy responses,
we just had one yesterday because there's always,
as some of these, uh, in,
in a lot of these communities stop the violence routes.
There's always, I mean, I mentioned DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince earlier,
DJ Jazzy Jeff and Charlie m uh, Charlie Mack, um,
their bodyguard at one time.
They put these kinds of rallies together in Philly.
So I always say, Hey, uh,
to all you conservatives out there that are looking for it, we can use you.
And I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding.
Some actually do show up to try to be a part of the solution.
And that's, and that's good. And, but see, that's what I do.
If you're talking about trying, uh,
if you're talking or if you're talking about black crime,
why don't you help those within those communities that are actually trying to do
something about it instead of trying to use it as a way to shut me up because
I'm talking about your crimes . Yeah.
'cause I case you've forgotten, um,
Derek Chauvin committed a crime when he murdered George Floyd.
That doesn't get a pass because other black people are committing crimes too.
That's right. And what about is, are really frustrating. Well tell people, uh,
the best way to find you and if they wanna be of service and help the cause,
how to do that?
Well, I mean, okay. One peoples project.com is the best way to reach the,
I'm very bad at self-promotion. Sometimes I just, I just like to teach.
But here's the thing. One peoples project.com is where you can find the,
uh, uh, find us.
We're also on Facebook as one people's project. We're also on thre, well,
we're not on thread yet. It's one people's project.
We're going to be today . Um,
we're on Twitter for WhatsApp work these days as one people's project.
We also have a newsline called I,
and we are on Instagram at One People's project.
We're also on Instagram and at, uh, at, oh,
I'm sorry. We're, um, we also have another website called Ida Vox. Ida a v o s.
It's named after Ida D. Wells,
who we consider to be someone who has spoken out about things when
no one else would. So ida vox.com.
Twitter is Ida at opp. Instagram is just IDA Box,
and we can always use donations. We got stuff to sell. We got t-shirts and um,
pens and CDs. Somebody actually made a, um, cd, uh,
to benefit us. And that's on our website right now. It's a punk cd. So, um,
you know, I enjoy it. , watch the movie Skin on Amazon Prime.
You can find a short film Skin that actually won an Oscar. It's on YouTube.
You can find, um.
Erasing Hate.
Erasing Hate Is Somewhere In the Wind. I think it's on Tub.
B T u B I I think it's on, I think it's on that.
There's also a documentary that, um, I'm a participant in called, um,
AltRight Age of Rage. That was on Netflix for a while. Um,
that's in the wind now too. Um,
there's also a documentary called We Don't Walk In Fear,
but you pretty much have to go to film festivals or invite me to Your Town
where I can just show it to you. Um, because we're not putting it out there yet.
We wanna see where it goes. Um, and that's that.
And, um, but like I said, go to our website if you, we really could use, um,
the support, um,
because I've been bouncing around the country for the past couple of, um,
months and uh, I want to keep doing that, but I want to keep seeing everybody.
I mean, I'm having a good time with that. So.
If you come to California, to Los Angeles, let me know.
I will be in Los Angeles soon enough. I just don't know when, uh,
it's just a matter of somebody calling me and say, Hey, come on out, .
Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much for your time today.
Ah, thank you. I appreciate all of this.
Yeah, thank you. I really enjoyed the conversation and I mean,
choose Love Over Hate. I think that's the best way to go.
Indeed, indeed. Choose Love Over Hate because the residual's better.
I mean, our slogan is Hate Ass Consequences, but Love has its benefits, baby.
Believe all that.
Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks for listening everybody. Bye.
Alright, take care.
Rate review and subscribe to Hey,
human on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks. Bye.