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Hey, humans. How's it
going? Susan Ruth here.

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Thanks for listening to another
episode of Hey Human Podcast.

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This is episode 372,

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and I had a conversation
with Jennifer Howard Hammer.

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Jennifer is a retired peace officer
with over 20 years experience.

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She started as a reserve deputy sheriff
and went on to be a correctional

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counselor at the California Department
of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

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She received a bronze star from the
California State Prison in Sacramento,

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and the Medal of Valor from the C D C R.

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She retired in 2021 from that world,

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and these days she
specializes in event planning,

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floral design and photography services.
Uh, she's a really lovely woman.

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We had such a great conversation,

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and she came from a very
intense childhood as many of

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us have. And her story
is really inspirational.

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I'm excited for y'all to hear it. Check
out. Hey, human podcast for links.

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And to learn more about
my guests and the show,

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check out Susan ruth.com to learn more
about me and my other artistic endeavors,

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follow Susan Ruth is and hey,
human podcast on social media.

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Find my albums on Spotify,
apple Music, Amazon music,

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or wherever you get your music. Also,

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check out my Relationships in Sex
show with sexologist and healthcare

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practitioner, Mara Edelman on
YouTube. Under Are We There yet?

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Podcast show rate review,
and subscribe to, Hey,

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human Podcast on iTunes or
wherever you get your podcasts.

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And thank you for listening. Be well,
be safe, take care of each other.

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And, uh, here we go.

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Jennifer Howard Hammer,
welcome to Hey, human.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm excited to dig in. I met you when
I was doing work for another show,

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and just by virtue of chatting with you,
I thought this woman is fascinating.

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Oh, thank you. You have.

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Lived a very interesting life.

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I'd.

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Love to dig in.

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Yes. It's been, it's been a very,
uh, interesting long journey.

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Lots of ups, lots of downs, but
lots of perseverance as well. Well,

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let's.

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Dig in. Where are you from originally?

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I'm from Chico, California. It's
about half my life there. Uh,

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the other half here in
northern California,

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Sacramento area for a short period
of time. I lived in, uh, Phoenix,

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Arizona. Uh, not necessarily my
happiest moments, but it was,

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um, a journey. We came back
and thank goodness we did.

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And it's kind of like I
started my life in Chico,

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went down Sacramento, Phoenix,

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came back to Sacramento and
finished it back up in, in, uh,

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Chico for my younger years.

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And all of my adult life has been here
in the Roseville, Sacramento area.

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What took you traveling
all over like that? Um,

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so I was a child.

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My mother had six kids by six different
gentlemen, or not so gentlemen.

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So my older brother was put up for
adoption. And my mom was very young, um,

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when she had, uh, my brother,
and still 19 when she had me.

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And so I think, uh,

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she was just in a situation where she
didn't necessarily have all of the

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life skills that she needed to and
definitely didn't have the resources.

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And I ended up becoming a
part of the foster system. Um,

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I was very blessed because of that
foster system I was with my family and,

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and,

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and very blessed that I wasn't part of
the foster system that a lot of children

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are part of these days.

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So does that mean that you were
fostered with your siblings?

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No, I was, um, actually my
mom left me on my aunt's, uh,

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doorstep before she moved to, uh, Phoenix.

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And when I say on her doorstep,
that is literally on her doorstep,

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I was five or six and she took
my little brother and moved to

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Arizona and started her life there.

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My aunt took care of me. And then my, um,

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I moved to my grandma and
grandpa. Uh, they took care of me,

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and then I went back to my grandmother.

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She took care of me and my grandma
thought it was time that I go back with my

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mom, which was literally the worst
thing that could have ever happened.

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Uh, went back with her,
moved me out of the state.

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So I was away from all my family and
support, um, basically the people that I,

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I knew all my life and
then went to Arizona. Um,

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life was not exactly
fun. Very, very hard. Um,

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and then when I was, uh, 16,

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there was an intervention, which
is another interesting story.

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We can get into that whenever
you want. And then, um, came,

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awarded the court an intervention
with your mother. So it was,

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um, I was living with my
mom at the time, the entire,

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every time I was with my mom,

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I was either physically or sexually abused

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the entire time. And, um, finally at, uh,

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1516, um, I had had enough of the, uh,

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physical and sexual abuse, um,
from, and it was always her,

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either her boyfriends or husbands
or their friends or whoever.

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I had finally had enough and,
uh, tried to call my aunt.

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Uh, 'cause I was very, very
abusive situation, actually. Um,

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my little brothers, um, were getting
beat on quite a bit with, uh, the bell.

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And as long as I was there,
I would always step in.

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So that meant I got it twice as
bad. I was nailed in my room.

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They nailed the door
shut and windows shut.

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The cops finally came after
I was able to break out,

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I was trying to get to a door and my
mother put her arm into try to grab my

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hair. And I ended up, um,

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shutting the door on her
and it caused damage.

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So while I was at school
that day, she, uh,

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called the cops at the
urging of my stepfather.

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And then they lied, pressed charges,

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and said that I held her arm
and broke it and be on her.

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But I was the one with
on, with all the bruises.

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I was the one with the handcuffs
that they didn't have keys for.

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A sheriff had to actually call a
different deputy to come out to unlock,

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unlock my handcuffs. I begged
him to take me with, with him.

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And back then they didn't intervene like
they do now, unfortunately, next day,

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uh, the sheriff's come to the
school and I'm thinking, yay,

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finally I am gonna get
some sort of protection.

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And they arrested me 16 and took
me to juvenile hall and said

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that, uh, all of this
occurred. It was a lie.

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And so while I was very,
um, frightened, very naive,

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I was a very naive child. I didn't
understand, I was scared to death. Uh,

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but I was in the juvenile
hall. And when, um,

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they had my court date, they
basically said, well, we'll,

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we'll go ahead and release you, uh,
but you have to follow all these rules.

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And I said, um, no, no, I'll
stay, I'll stay here till I'm 18,

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if that's okay,

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because 'cause I'd rather stay here
than never go back there with them.

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And at that point, someone finally
listened, someone finally heard my words,

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they were able to get ahold of
my aunt, uh, who was like my mom.

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She was always my solid and my
grandparents. And they came and,

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uh, the judge awarded them custody of me.

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And I was blessed enough to stay with
them until I finally graduated high

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school. I stayed with my aunt for about
a year, and then maybe not quite a year,

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and then I moved back with my
grandma and grandpa because, um,

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they had the most stable environment.
And then I went back home to kids that I,

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you know, finally went to school with
when I was in second and third grade.

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So I was able to finally graduate.

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Were people hearing your
cries for help all along,

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or did they just tell you to sort of
listen to your mother and as they did at

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one point in time when
people, as you said,

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didn't listen to kids the way they do now?

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Right. So, um, my Aunt Judy,
uh, and my grandparents,

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they knew something was
wrong. Um, just from behavior.

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I thought I was acting normal. But,
uh, it's kind of interesting now. I,

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um, I pick up on, on
behavior with all humans.

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I am, I'm very avid human watcher.
I pay attention to details.

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And so I'm able to pick that kind of
stuff out now very quick when there's

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something not quite right,
whether it's a child or an adult,

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but they knew something
wasn't right. And they, um,

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they did try to get me some counseling,
but back then I was afraid, you know,

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you, you as a child, you
feel like it's your fault,

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or like you're hiding a big secret,

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and you don't want something bad
to happen to someone that you love.

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And so with that fear that I had, um,

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I would go to counseling and I would,
I would absolutely lie. Um, oh,

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everything's fine. We're good. And
she was a great counselor, and she,

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she didn't push,

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but she would talk to me and let me
know that she knew something was up.

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You know, it didn't get very far, but I
did at least feel comfortable with her.

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Later in my life, when I lived
with my grandparents, part of the,

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the court orders were to
get me counseling. And,
and I remember my grandma,

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you know, saying like, we've
tried to get her counseling, um,

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counseling isn't gonna help her. She's
not gonna open up. And so they said,

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well, just, you know, keep
trying. So my grandma made a,

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an appointment with someone,
and I remember her last name,

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but I remember her name was Rita,
counselor Rita. And, and Chico,

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she was kind of a hippie, kind of earthy.

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She said to me, Jennifer, do you
think everybody does this? Because

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they are, they have an ulterior motive.
Why do you think they're doing this?

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Why do you think they're bringing
you to counseling? And I said,

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because they think something's
wrong with me. And she says, no,

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they don't think
something's wrong with you.

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They think you've been through something
traumatic that is affecting you.

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And I was like, oh, wow. I never really
had somebody explain it to me like that.

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And at 16, I was older, I could, you
know, I could reason a little bit more,

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but I also, at 16, I was
pissed off. I was really,

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really angry because I was tired of

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feeling like the punching bag, I guess.
I, I started being used, used up,

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I felt used up kind of, she said, um,

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I would really like it if you could
open up to me and if you could,

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I think that we can help you get
from this where you're at right now.

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We can go and we can work through
some of the things that are deep down

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inside that are ailing you. And
she said, will you just try?

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And I was like, okay, at this
point, what's it gonna hurt?

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And I finally submitted to that day,

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being honest about my life, my past.

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I, I just tried to say,
okay, this is not my fault.

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I didn't have a choice in this.
And I think as kids get older,

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you feel like you did have a choice
because you were older, but you don't,

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because you live with the fear.

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You live with the fear of somebody
finding out you live with the fear of,

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of people judging you. Um, my mom knew,

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and she denied it all the time, um,

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up until the day she died.

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And I finally was able to tell
her that it was okay, mom,

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I love you and I know that, you know,

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you probably choose not to remember
because it was so painful. I mean,

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think about it as a mom to knowingly
do some of the things that you partake,

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partook in, and to know what people were
doing to your child and or children,

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and to the fear that she must
have also had. But regardless,

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you chose to have children.
It's your job to protect us.

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And you chose not to do that. And I
just told her, I was like, I love you.

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You're my mom. I don't necessarily
like what has happened.

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I'm whom I am today because
of what I went through.

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But I love you and I forgive you, even
if you're never gonna give me what I,

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what I thought I needed. I just want you
to know I love you and I forgive you.

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And I was so thankful because I was
able to do that about a week before she

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tragically died. Um,
unexpectedly. But yeah. So anyhow,

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this counselor was able to get me to do
what's called interactive in role play

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therapy. And it's something I'd
never done before. And it was so,

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it was kind weird. I mean, I'm
not gonna lie, but it, it worked.

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Is that, that the one where you
pretend the chair is your parent?

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Is it that one? Yeah. Or, um, it
can be the chair is your parent, or,

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um, at this point where she
would say, okay, I'm, I'm him.

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What do you wanna say to me? How
did that make you feel? Like?

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And so I was able to do that. But
before we started that, she also said,

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you know, there's stages. You know,

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in order for anybody to get help, you
have to admit that there was a problem.

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It's the first step in
anything, drug, alcohol,

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abuse, any kind of

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traumatic moment.

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If you don't admit that it happens or
you don't admit that there is a problem,

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you can't fix what you don't
acknowledge. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

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And so she said, you know, that's the
first part. And then she says, and then

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once you you do that, then you're
gonna get really, really pissed off.

218
00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:39,560
Oh. And I did, like, I, I did
not realize how much anger,

219
00:14:40,350 --> 00:14:43,360
like sheer anger that I was carrying.

220
00:14:44,740 --> 00:14:49,640
And then she said, you're gonna be
really sad. And I remember sobbing,

221
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,000
like, where I couldn't
breathe. And then she says,

222
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,080
you're gonna take a breath
and we're gonna talk about it,

223
00:14:58,470 --> 00:15:02,330
and then we're gonna give you tools,
and then you're gonna accept it,

224
00:15:02,950 --> 00:15:06,950
and then you're gonna move on.
And for the first time in my life,

225
00:15:06,950 --> 00:15:11,550
I've made a promise to myself that I
would always talk freely and openly about

226
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:12,743
anything that happened.

227
00:15:13,310 --> 00:15:15,990
I just always had to be very
careful with whom I spoke at.

228
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:20,950
Because some of the things
that had happened specifically
were pretty tragic and

229
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,090
could be very offensive. Offensive
in the sense that some people don't

230
00:15:28,950 --> 00:15:32,400
want to know that kind of trauma.
They don't wanna visualize.

231
00:15:33,780 --> 00:15:37,680
So if you tell them, well, this
and this specific act and this,

232
00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:42,080
and this is how this happened, they're
just like, oh my God, oh my gosh. Like,

233
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,400
I can't, like no more. And it's kinda
like even within the prison system,

234
00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:46,440
which I also work,

235
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:51,350
sometimes the public and people just
aren't prepared for that kind of

236
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:52,860
reality.

237
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:57,470
Unfortunately, though, that's how
things get perpetuated, right?

238
00:15:57,470 --> 00:16:00,390
We don't talk about it no
matter how heinous it is.

239
00:16:00,610 --> 00:16:05,510
We have to have those conversations
in order to facilitate and end to that

240
00:16:05,510 --> 00:16:06,830
kind of trauma and abuse.

241
00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:10,870
Yeah, absolutely. I agree 100%. I don't,

242
00:16:11,390 --> 00:16:15,950
I I remember as a young child, um,
my grandfather saying, you know,

243
00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:18,950
if you're not honest, then what,

244
00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:22,190
what do you have to give somebody who
knows nothing about you other than your

245
00:16:22,190 --> 00:16:24,710
word? And so,

246
00:16:25,510 --> 00:16:30,190
I have always tried to be
as honest as I can be in my

247
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,550
adult life. My, my son, I've
told a couple white lies too.

248
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:38,510
'cause that's what we do as parents.
And he calls me out and he's like,

249
00:16:38,510 --> 00:16:43,270
you're lying. And I'm like, well,
yes, I guess technically I am,

250
00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:47,870
but the reason I'm doing
this is because of this.

251
00:16:48,180 --> 00:16:52,230
It's not because I'm trying to
deceive you. It's more like,

252
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:56,150
I don't wanna let you down in a
hard way. And he is like, okay, mom,

253
00:16:56,170 --> 00:17:00,790
but you know, it's still, and I'm like,
okay, I get it. I, I try to be as,

254
00:17:01,010 --> 00:17:05,600
as open and honest about any and
everything that I possibly can

255
00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:07,880
because I, I think it's important.

256
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,680
I think it's not my problem if I'm honest
with somebody and they can't handle

257
00:17:13,030 --> 00:17:16,920
that honesty. I come across sometimes as

258
00:17:19,450 --> 00:17:22,880
being harsh and I'm not.
I'm, I'm not. I, I, I,

259
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,920
at least that's not ever really
my intention. If I trust me,

260
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,720
if I wanna be harsh to somebody, you're
never gonna have a doubt about it.

261
00:17:29,740 --> 00:17:31,280
You're gonna know my intention. <laugh>.

262
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,440
I feel that children who have suffered
abuse have a particular kind of stoicism.

263
00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:40,600
How did you find a path to
forgiveness for your mom?

264
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,520
'Cause the burden that I was carrying,

265
00:17:46,730 --> 00:17:49,720
realizing as we get older, that you can't

266
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,100
change anybody no matter
how much you love them,

267
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,660
no matter how many roads you give them,

268
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,860
no matter how much support or
opportunity you provide for somebody,

269
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,860
you can't make them do anything.

270
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,020
The one thing that I wanted from my mom

271
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,640
was affirmation. And I
told her I am, I said, mom,

272
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,240
the only thing I really want is
for you to say it. I know Jenny,

273
00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:24,670
I should have, I should have done
more. And I didn't. And I'm sorry.

274
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,060
And what I got was, well,
I just didn't know. And,

275
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,460
you know, I can't change it now. And
okay, if you want me to say I'm sorry,

276
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,820
I'm sorry. And it's like, no,

277
00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:42,460
I want you to say you're
sorry because you're sorry.

278
00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:46,780
I want you to admit where you failed

279
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,900
me. I want you to see

280
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:54,320
what I went through

281
00:18:56,540 --> 00:18:59,240
as a child that you
were supposed to protect

282
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:06,530
and still know that I
love you. And I've tried,

283
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,730
I've tried to have that
relationship and build it. Um, it's,

284
00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:12,170
it's always been a strained
relationship with my mom,

285
00:19:12,870 --> 00:19:14,970
but it never meant I didn't love her.

286
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,580
It never meant that I didn't
want more for her. But again,

287
00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:26,540
I can't want more than she does.

288
00:19:27,210 --> 00:19:30,980
That must've been complicated when she
passed away. And what's her first name?

289
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:32,220
I, I like to say that.

290
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:34,093
Virginia.

291
00:19:34,220 --> 00:19:35,140
Virginia. Mm-hmm.

292
00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:36,013
<Affirmative>.

293
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,860
So when Virginia passed, it's been a
year. Oh, so not very long. Mm-hmm.

294
00:19:40,990 --> 00:19:41,900
April was one year.

295
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,030
I imagine having complicated
relationship with my own mother.

296
00:19:47,150 --> 00:19:51,550
I imagine having them
gone and knowing that

297
00:19:51,930 --> 00:19:53,030
that's it. You,

298
00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:57,910
you won't get that apology
or that understanding or

299
00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:03,790
even really hearing what
forgiveness means, you know?

300
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:07,150
'cause they have to forgive themselves
as well. Exactly. You would hope. I mean,

301
00:20:07,150 --> 00:20:08,310
that's, that's the hope at least.

302
00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:14,310
How did you handle her death
knowing that all those things

303
00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:15,790
weren't going to come to pass?

304
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:20,840
Or did it matter anymore because
you had met yourself in that

305
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,480
space and, and parent parented yourself,
for lack of a better word, I guess.

306
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:31,160
I always had told myself, and I
told my little brothers and my, um,

307
00:20:31,460 --> 00:20:34,120
my little sister. I always would say,

308
00:20:34,510 --> 00:20:38,840
I've taken care of Aunt Judy
until her dying breath. Uh,

309
00:20:38,860 --> 00:20:43,000
she died from terminal cancer. I've
taken on that financial burden.

310
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,640
I have tried to include everybody
as much as I, I possibly could.

311
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,920
I took car of Aunt Judy, who
I considered to be my mom,

312
00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:58,190
and I said, you guys let me know what
you need from me. But when mom passes,

313
00:20:59,130 --> 00:21:03,710
that's, that's she's your
responsibility. And I said, you know,

314
00:21:03,820 --> 00:21:06,510
I'll send flowers. I'll be
there for whatever you need.

315
00:21:06,780 --> 00:21:10,510
Because I felt like I was just
going to emotionally detach.

316
00:21:11,450 --> 00:21:15,910
And ironically, God works in mysterious
ways. And, and thank God he does.

317
00:21:16,570 --> 00:21:19,750
It was by chance that I, um,

318
00:21:20,090 --> 00:21:23,990
I'd been off and on in contact
with my mom, uh, through text.

319
00:21:24,170 --> 00:21:26,430
And I just felt like, you know,

320
00:21:26,450 --> 00:21:30,950
she was getting older and kind of not

321
00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:36,230
necessarily playing with a full
deck, but I mean that, you know,

322
00:21:36,370 --> 00:21:38,270
if it happens as, as people age,

323
00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:43,110
just wanting to talk to her and just let
her know, like, Hey, we moving forward,

324
00:21:43,170 --> 00:21:47,430
we, I you need to, you need to meet your,

325
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:50,910
your youngest grandson. 'cause
you've never met him. Um,

326
00:21:50,930 --> 00:21:53,390
you've only been around
park two or three times.

327
00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:58,560
I don't wanna deprive you
of that as an old lady.

328
00:21:59,180 --> 00:22:04,040
And so, um, one night we were
just talking and I don't know,

329
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,880
I just felt compelled to tell her all
the things I needed to, to say to her.

330
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:11,840
And we bawled. Like I cried for hours.

331
00:22:11,980 --> 00:22:15,160
We were on the phone for
probably close to two hours,

332
00:22:15,390 --> 00:22:18,960
hour and 45 minutes
there about. And it, and,

333
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:23,000
and I felt the relief
that I got to say what I,

334
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:27,640
I felt like I needed to say. And
then if she passed, um, I was good.

335
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,560
I was gonna be fine. When I got
the call at 1230, that mom was in,

336
00:22:32,660 --> 00:22:35,240
uh, the emergency and, uh,

337
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,040
that she was hemorrhaging and
they couldn't stop the bleeding.

338
00:22:38,380 --> 00:22:42,440
And it wasn't looking good that
they were doing c p r on her.

339
00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:48,020
I remember just, uh,

340
00:22:49,130 --> 00:22:53,620
like inside, um, I don't know if you
wanna call it, like controlled chaos,

341
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:57,860
where I kind of just was like, oh
my God, really? Is this going on?

342
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,180
And then, um, about 15 minutes later,
my little brother called me and said,

343
00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:06,220
well, or sis she's, she's gone. I was in,

344
00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:10,500
my bathroom was 11 ish, close to 12. I

345
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:16,690
fell to the floor. I
sobbed uncontrollably.

346
00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:20,840
I puked, I cried some more.

347
00:23:22,260 --> 00:23:24,400
And then I put my clothes
on and said, all right,

348
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,520
now I need to go there and be there
for my, my little brothers and sister.

349
00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:33,360
And I need to make sure that they treat
my mom with dignity and respect and that

350
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,680
everything is done the proper way.

351
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,400
I didn't think I was gonna be that
emotional and, uh, still to this day, um,

352
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:43,400
with how, um, my little sister,

353
00:23:44,380 --> 00:23:46,040
who was kinda like my mom's best friend,

354
00:23:46,060 --> 00:23:50,560
and I'm glad my little sister never had
to deal with any of the stuff that we

355
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,240
ever did, ever. My little
brother dealt with some of it.

356
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:59,920
My, uh, middle little brother
who is dead now. Um, he is,

357
00:24:01,260 --> 00:24:04,000
he, he was a, a tortured soul.

358
00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:09,760
And then my older brother is
bipolar schizophrenic with

359
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,000
multiple personality. Like, he, uh,
lives on the streets now. You know, it's,

360
00:24:15,030 --> 00:24:15,920
it's, it, it was,

361
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,760
it was a whole gamut of things that I
didn't think I was gonna deal with My

362
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,200
little sister and I don't
really get along real well.

363
00:24:22,540 --> 00:24:26,480
And she's been a very entitled child.

364
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:30,800
It's interesting to think about
how each one of us in a family,

365
00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:36,830
in a way have a different parent,
even if it's the same parent. Right.

366
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,910
We're parented differently and they
behave differently upon us. They,

367
00:24:41,910 --> 00:24:44,870
they're, you're, they're like,
we have a one relationship.

368
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:47,390
Like my big brother has a totally
different relationship with my mom.

369
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,990
Right, right. Yeah. And it's, and it's,
you know, I love my little sister. I,

370
00:24:52,270 --> 00:24:54,990
I was 18 when she was
born. I was so excited. I,

371
00:24:55,150 --> 00:24:58,230
I was so excited to finally have a
little sister. I love her to death.

372
00:24:58,630 --> 00:25:01,830
I love all of my siblings. I
care about them all deeply.

373
00:25:02,850 --> 00:25:06,270
So I have two brothers that are still
alive. Well, I should say three because,

374
00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:10,710
um, I, my older brother that was put up
for adoption, I've reconnected with him.

375
00:25:10,730 --> 00:25:14,030
We haven't met in person, but we talk,
um, you know, through Facebook and,

376
00:25:14,030 --> 00:25:14,863
and what have you.

377
00:25:15,170 --> 00:25:16,270
That's interesting too.

378
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,390
Right? Isn't it crazy.

379
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:19,870
What the life, what life he had.

380
00:25:20,810 --> 00:25:22,230
He had a, an amazing life.

381
00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:23,773
Yeah.

382
00:25:24,060 --> 00:25:28,870
Yeah. He said he was very blessed. He
had a, a great life. His parents, um,

383
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:32,970
were always good and kind to him. And
he had a great upbringing. And, um,

384
00:25:33,270 --> 00:25:37,010
he was, you know, he was
super compassionate. Like,
I'm sorry that, you know,

385
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:40,690
it was so hard for you, you know,
you guys. And I said, don't be sorry.

386
00:25:41,070 --> 00:25:45,690
I'm like, you know, I'm thankful that
you never had to experience that. Yeah.

387
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:46,400
So.

388
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,810
Your brother that passed
away, what's his name?

389
00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:50,723
Bj.

390
00:25:50,770 --> 00:25:53,830
So BJ who passed away, he,

391
00:25:54,910 --> 00:25:59,870
I assume had a lot of the same
things to endure that you and perhaps

392
00:25:59,890 --> 00:26:01,630
the eldest brother of yours.

393
00:26:02,050 --> 00:26:06,190
The, so the eldest. Yeah. So
the eldest didn't really, um,

394
00:26:06,450 --> 00:26:10,220
he was kind of the golden child,
the, the oldest younger brother.

395
00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:13,460
So my little brother right underneath
me, he was kind of the golden child.

396
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,140
He was also pretty entitled.
His dad came back into his life.

397
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,580
My littlest brother, who I
kind of raised off and on,

398
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,060
who now that he is, it's kind of an
estranged relationship right now.

399
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,060
But I think he also has some mental
health, um, things that he's,

400
00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:31,820
he's working through. Um,

401
00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:37,060
'cause he is had several concussions
from riding rodeo and, and what have you.

402
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,460
But, uh, yeah, my, my middle,
um, little brother, bj,

403
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,560
he had a really rough life.
He, him and I, he had,

404
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,680
I think he had a, a
probably a worse life than,

405
00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:53,720
or upbringing than I did because he was
there and his dad wasn't, um, involved.

406
00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:58,000
And my littlest brother's dad,
who was the one that abused me,

407
00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:01,720
adopted him, and then changed his name,

408
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:07,170
beat the ever living shit out
of him, every opportunity. So,

409
00:27:08,150 --> 00:27:12,290
you know, um, he'd been in and out of
prison. He had drug addiction and yeah,

410
00:27:12,290 --> 00:27:16,050
he was killed in a vehicle
accident from one of his dope head

411
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:21,450
ex-girlfriends. And then she
lied. <laugh>. Yeah. Well.

412
00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:26,210
I love so much for one family to have
to go through, but I, I don't know.

413
00:27:27,090 --> 00:27:31,970
I feel like that story is not an uncommon
one, which is also so desperately sad.

414
00:27:32,660 --> 00:27:34,440
Right. Unfortunately,

415
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:40,120
people don't feel compelled
to talk about it. And,

416
00:27:40,460 --> 00:27:41,180
and they do.

417
00:27:41,180 --> 00:27:45,800
My little sister still believes to this
day that none of that happened to me.

418
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:47,480
That's insulting.

419
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:51,760
And it's disgusting because what
that tells me is that first of all,

420
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:52,800
you don't have compassion.

421
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,970
You don't have the ability to
be compassionate or empathetic.

422
00:27:58,340 --> 00:28:01,920
And you wouldn't know that because
you've lived such a privileged life

423
00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:07,310
and you believed
everything mom said to you

424
00:28:09,530 --> 00:28:12,910
because she was your best friend.

425
00:28:13,950 --> 00:28:15,190
'cause my little sister's
socially awkward.

426
00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:19,390
But for you to say to me,

427
00:28:19,730 --> 00:28:22,470
you don't believe everything
that I'm saying is true,

428
00:28:23,860 --> 00:28:24,750
what kind of sick,

429
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,310
disgusting person would I have
to be to make these things up?

430
00:28:30,170 --> 00:28:32,500
Like it makes me wanna physically
vomit thinking about it.

431
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,740
And, and I said, you know, like
I've, I've told her numerous times,

432
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,660
you go ahead and you believe that.
I'm glad that, that you have,

433
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,780
you have the right and the opportunity
and the ability to do that because

434
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,100
you are never a victim of that.
And I'm thankful for that,

435
00:28:49,860 --> 00:28:52,270
disgusted with your
behavior and your thoughts,

436
00:28:52,530 --> 00:28:54,110
but you're also entitled to those as well.

437
00:28:55,050 --> 00:28:59,350
So sometimes you just gotta
accept it and move on.

438
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:04,440
I'm really that your story is devastating.

439
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,360
And I'm sorry that you had to go
through that. But I gotta say,

440
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:12,000
you are one of the stronger
women I've ever met. And I mean,

441
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,520
I don't know you well, but just
from the conversations we've had,

442
00:29:14,940 --> 00:29:19,640
it is a weird conundrum, right? We think
about this stuff that we endure, right?

443
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,400
And as you said, it creates the
person you are today, right?

444
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,160
And so there's the part
of us that think, okay,

445
00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:28,280
well who would I be
without that? Even though,

446
00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:33,400
can I just be that without all that
horrible stuff happening to me? Right?

447
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:34,860
Yeah.

448
00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:38,920
How, how, how did that
shape you moving forward?

449
00:29:39,660 --> 00:29:43,520
You have a husband, do you
have a family? How did,

450
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,570
were you able to not bring
that trauma into relationships?

451
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:52,650
Or did that take time to
figure out how to navigate?

452
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:58,570
So I have always said that

453
00:29:58,670 --> 00:30:01,730
in life, you know, if you
were given that one thing,

454
00:30:01,730 --> 00:30:03,370
what would you change in your life?

455
00:30:03,470 --> 00:30:07,210
What's the one thing you would change
in your life? And I've always said,

456
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:12,130
I wish that I would have
understood and realized

457
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,730
what college was back when I was younger.

458
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:19,330
I wish I would've gotten more
of a college education. Um,

459
00:30:19,410 --> 00:30:23,890
I did get some college education
later in my life, um, in my late, uh,

460
00:30:24,170 --> 00:30:27,250
twenties and, well, I should say actually
more like thirties, but, you know,

461
00:30:27,250 --> 00:30:29,610
late twenties, early thirties.
But at that time, you know,

462
00:30:29,610 --> 00:30:33,690
having your own home and, and
having to work all the time. And,

463
00:30:33,690 --> 00:30:36,770
and people do it all the time. But
I got to experience that struggle.

464
00:30:37,030 --> 00:30:40,130
And it's real. That's the one thing
that I would've changed. And people say,

465
00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:43,850
well, why wouldn't you change all of
the other stuff that happened to you?

466
00:30:46,130 --> 00:30:50,000
And I said, because it
made me who I am. It,

467
00:30:51,620 --> 00:30:55,920
it gave me the fortitude to fight
and succeed. I'm a, I'm a survivor.

468
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,930
That doesn't mean that
I don't have bad days.

469
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,040
That doesn't mean that there are
days that I'm just like, I, I cannot,

470
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,480
I I need to get in my bedroom and I need
to go to sleep because I cannot deal

471
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,240
with this day. I have those
days, but I'm also honest.

472
00:31:12,260 --> 00:31:14,400
And I allow myself
opportunity. I give myself the,

473
00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:16,160
the permission to feel that way.

474
00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:20,880
Sometimes defeated or angry or

475
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,760
helpless. And then, you know, I feel
sorry for myself. And then I'm like,

476
00:31:25,780 --> 00:31:29,800
all right, put your big girl
panties on. You got shit to do.

477
00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:34,120
Go get your stuff done. It's time
to be a big girl. And, you know,

478
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,640
I laugh 'cause I talk to myself
all the time. And, and like,

479
00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:40,200
sometimes you just gotta do that.

480
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,480
Sometimes you just have to talk
yourself through it. <laugh>.

481
00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:46,360
And that's what got me
through all the years as, um,

482
00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:49,240
as a kid is I would always
talk myself through it.

483
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,680
I would always think about the positive
things that happened in my life to get

484
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,640
me through the negative
things I was going through.

485
00:31:55,180 --> 00:31:59,640
And I've always known that
I've had choices because
of the positive role models

486
00:31:59,710 --> 00:32:03,880
I've had. My aunts and my uncles
from my, my grandparents, you know,

487
00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:08,000
my Aunt Audra, who's
like my sister who, um,

488
00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:11,440
has went through a lot of trials and
tribulations. She's like my big sister.

489
00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:15,840
We grew up, you know, off and on
together through my aunt. Um, and,

490
00:32:15,940 --> 00:32:20,320
and my grandparents being selfless
and taking on a responsibility of

491
00:32:20,620 --> 00:32:23,640
taking care of a human
when they didn't have to.

492
00:32:25,250 --> 00:32:30,200
Like being a mom, we choose
to be moms. And people say,

493
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,480
well, I didn't choose to get pregnant.
Yes, you did. If you had sex,

494
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:36,920
you chose to get pregnant. Sorry.
But that's a choice I'm very big on.

495
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,720
Everybody has choices and some
choices have consequences.

496
00:32:41,580 --> 00:32:45,440
You just have to realize through
life that, you know, you,

497
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:47,960
you just like Dory, you
just gotta keep on swimming.

498
00:32:48,620 --> 00:32:51,800
You just gotta keep on swimming.
Just keep on moving forward. <laugh>.

499
00:32:52,860 --> 00:32:57,160
Yes. Hatred saying of, of many
of us, really. Uh, right. Well,

500
00:32:57,220 --> 00:33:00,920
how did you figure out how to
navigate relationships moving forward,

501
00:33:00,970 --> 00:33:05,640
especially adult relationships
where vulnerability and trust

502
00:33:05,940 --> 00:33:07,960
are such a huge component?

503
00:33:08,730 --> 00:33:12,280
Right. So when I was in my, um, teens, uh,

504
00:33:12,670 --> 00:33:16,600
16, 17, 18, I was very promiscuous.

505
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,920
I just thought that's what you do. That's,

506
00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:23,520
that's just kind of what you do.

507
00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:27,160
And then once I graduated high
school by the skin of my teeth,

508
00:33:27,420 --> 00:33:30,840
my aunt gave me the opportunity to
move down here with her. And, um,

509
00:33:30,970 --> 00:33:35,640
she's an executive chef, one of the
first female, um, chefs of Sacramento.

510
00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:40,280
And she said, Hey, I can get
you a job at the Holiday Inn.

511
00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:45,200
So I came down and I started working
and learning from then how to,

512
00:33:45,300 --> 00:33:49,320
you know, be kind of a big girl.
Um, even during that period,

513
00:33:49,420 --> 00:33:53,360
it was still from 16 to 18,

514
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,980
I was kind of a mess. Every time I see
my grandma, I always, every single time,

515
00:33:57,990 --> 00:34:00,020
every single time I
apologize. And I say, grandma,

516
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,090
I'm so sorry for the stress that I put
you through. 'cause back then, you know,

517
00:34:04,090 --> 00:34:06,570
we didn't have cell phones. They
couldn't, they couldn't check on you.

518
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:09,530
And I just, the guilt
that I have from that, um,

519
00:34:09,730 --> 00:34:14,090
I don't know if I'll ever still give
myself permission to forgive myself for

520
00:34:14,090 --> 00:34:17,170
that. I'm just so thankful that
my grandma didn't give up on me.

521
00:34:17,470 --> 00:34:21,250
But she also gave me tough love. And,
and I know it killed her sometimes.

522
00:34:22,150 --> 00:34:24,930
And I tried to use the things
that I learned from them.

523
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:29,890
My grandma and grandpa were
married, um, for over 30 years,

524
00:34:30,430 --> 00:34:32,570
uh, before my grandpa
passed. They're amazing.

525
00:34:33,350 --> 00:34:36,650
My grandma and grandpa were
amazing. My Aunt Judy, um,

526
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:41,290
always showed me love and
encouragement and, uh, good work ethic.

527
00:34:41,870 --> 00:34:44,010
She was my solid through so much.

528
00:34:44,670 --> 00:34:48,650
And I just took what I learned from them
in, in those relationships that I have.

529
00:34:48,670 --> 00:34:52,890
All of my aunts and uncles have been
married, um, to their significant other,

530
00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:55,490
their entire life. I was married, um,

531
00:34:55,570 --> 00:35:00,130
I met a guy at the Holiday Inn I
got married to when I was, uh, 21.

532
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:04,730
Uh, we had dated for about two
years. 'cause I was almost 19, uh,

533
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:08,930
lasted about a year and a couple months,
couple months. And I realized like,

534
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:13,460
yeah, this is not, this is not the
relationship that I want <laugh>.

535
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,340
And, you know, you also learn that.

536
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,740
You think that that's just what you're
supposed to do. At least back then,

537
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,100
you know, you, you work, you find
somebody who treats you nice,

538
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,260
and then that's what you
do. You get married. Well,

539
00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:26,540
thank goodness I didn't have any kids.

540
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,460
And then I met my husband that I have
now. We have been together this year.

541
00:35:30,460 --> 00:35:35,220
It'll be 29 years. And, uh, we've been
married. It'll be 17 years this year.

542
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,600
You know, it's a lot of ups and downs.
Um, there are days sometimes where,

543
00:35:40,020 --> 00:35:42,800
you know, you just don't feel
like you can get through it.

544
00:35:42,940 --> 00:35:46,000
But life is a journey.
It's not a destination.

545
00:35:47,060 --> 00:35:50,040
And with anything good in life,

546
00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:52,750
there's some sort of fight.

547
00:35:54,010 --> 00:35:58,990
And if you turn your back and walk
away when you know that you have,

548
00:35:59,060 --> 00:36:03,870
like, this is your person. I, I've
known he was my person from like within,

549
00:36:03,870 --> 00:36:07,150
within one month of meeting, I like, I
knew, I'm like, oh my God, this, this,

550
00:36:07,580 --> 00:36:10,550
this is the guy we dated for almost
12 years before we got married.

551
00:36:12,490 --> 00:36:15,190
Uh, because he was in a
previous relationship. Um,

552
00:36:15,290 --> 00:36:18,190
he actually is 10 years older than
me, 10 and a half years older than me.

553
00:36:18,190 --> 00:36:22,990
So he has a, a family that he had prior
to. Um, so we're kind of a blended.

554
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,870
Yeah. I just try to take it
one day at a time. I, you know,

555
00:36:27,490 --> 00:36:32,430
and you have peaks and valleys in
relationships. Um, marriages are,

556
00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:37,310
are hard. They're not easy. And people
get into 'em, I think, way too fast. Um,

557
00:36:37,450 --> 00:36:40,870
and they get out of 'em even
faster. Um, unfortunately,

558
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:45,150
they get out of 'em faster when
they have kids, and that's hard. Um,

559
00:36:45,450 --> 00:36:46,430
so I don't know. Yeah,

560
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:49,510
I guess just through life you have to
kind of look and see what you're doing

561
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:53,200
right, what you're not, and
figure, try to figure out,

562
00:36:54,220 --> 00:36:57,840
you know, what's, what's the right
path and what's the wrong path.

563
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,800
I will tell you that I am a
fierce protector of my children,

564
00:37:03,180 --> 00:37:07,920
of all children that are
in my care or in my, my,

565
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:13,000
um, well, anywhere. I don't care if
I don't know you or not of my, my,

566
00:37:13,180 --> 00:37:17,280
my family and my friends. I'm very,
very protective. I'm very loyal.

567
00:37:18,460 --> 00:37:21,640
And you've taken that and you
made, you started your career.

568
00:37:21,860 --> 00:37:23,120
Am I correct in that? Yeah.

569
00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:27,720
You started your career dealing
with children who needed that?

570
00:37:28,140 --> 00:37:30,680
So I started my career. Um, I, you know,

571
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,480
worked numerous restaurant
jobs and that, you know,

572
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,240
I had done that for probably,
gosh, I think I was 23,

573
00:37:38,860 --> 00:37:42,000
uh, when I, um, had met
my husband. And, um,

574
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:45,280
actually it was 2022
when I met my husband.

575
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,160
I didn't know what I was
gonna dot. I, I thought, well,

576
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,190
maybe I'll be a paramedic. I mean, I
was just, I was, I didn't really care.

577
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:53,790
I didn't know I, I was kind of,

578
00:37:53,790 --> 00:37:57,750
kind of lost of what I wanted
to do with my life. And,

579
00:37:57,770 --> 00:38:01,350
but I knew that I didn't wanna be a food
server for the rest of my life because

580
00:38:01,350 --> 00:38:04,830
it was hard on, it's hard
on your body. And so, uh,

581
00:38:04,930 --> 00:38:08,870
at the restaurant that I worked at, we
had a, we always had a bunch of, of, uh,

582
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:11,830
cops that came in that we
would take care of. Um,

583
00:38:12,570 --> 00:38:14,550
and one of 'em had said to me,

584
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:18,070
have you ever thought about going into
law enforcement? And I think to myself,

585
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:22,950
I'm like, law enforcement, really?
Yeah. I used a smoke pot. Uh,

586
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:28,590
I, um, have made some bad
choices in my life. Uh,

587
00:38:29,610 --> 00:38:34,510
my financial situation wasn't
grand based off my upbringing.

588
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:39,680
I should have been an inmate. You know,
I didn't break the laws, um, you know,

589
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,000
anything like that. But just from my
perspective, I felt like, oh, really?

590
00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:47,080
You think I should do? And then, but they
said, well, come on, on a ride along.

591
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,390
I went on a ride along and I was
hooked. I knew from that day, uh,

592
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:57,070
which was January 31st, I went
and, uh, did a ride along.

593
00:38:57,530 --> 00:39:02,390
And it was 1993. No, it was 94
going to 95. I was like, oh yeah,

594
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:05,110
this is what I need to do. I
worked really long and hard.

595
00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:09,470
I worked for probably close
to eight years before, um,

596
00:39:09,590 --> 00:39:14,190
I finally got a full-time position
as an officer. As an officer,

597
00:39:14,650 --> 00:39:19,390
yes. I volunteered for the sheriff's
department for two years doing undercover

598
00:39:19,390 --> 00:39:24,230
prostitution, stings sex worker for all
those things. Right. Sex worker, right?

599
00:39:24,450 --> 00:39:27,030
Yes. And, but that was
also another, you know,

600
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:28,590
that was also another thing is that, um,

601
00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:32,030
I actually wrote a paper on
it for college. You know,

602
00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:35,790
everybody says it's a victimless crime,
and it's so far from a victimless crime.

603
00:39:36,850 --> 00:39:40,870
So we could go on for hours, uh,
with, with just that. Well, they,

604
00:39:40,980 --> 00:39:44,750
they deserve to be out there. Well,
no life probably or circumstance,

605
00:39:44,890 --> 00:39:48,270
put them out there because they didn't
have option guidance and felt like they

606
00:39:48,270 --> 00:39:50,150
didn't have choice. Everyone has a choice.

607
00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:53,590
So that's the one thing I'm
not gonna give you a buy for.

608
00:39:53,930 --> 00:39:58,190
But the choices that they felt,
you know, like once again, um,

609
00:39:58,220 --> 00:40:00,910
like with even suicide, where
I talk a lot about that too.

610
00:40:01,290 --> 00:40:05,830
The desperation in some
people's lives to lead them to

611
00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:09,310
a choice that is so permanent, the fear,

612
00:40:09,490 --> 00:40:12,550
the pimps treat them like garbage.

613
00:40:13,260 --> 00:40:17,270
They keep them hopped
up on the dope. They get

614
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:22,960
be on regularly from their
johns because they're Johns now,

615
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,800
after they get done having, you know,

616
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,200
whatever acts done that
they're mad at themselves,

617
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,960
that they just went and were
with a sex worker. So, no,

618
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,920
I'm gonna take my anger out on
you. If the sex worker isn't a, a,

619
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:38,600
you know, protected, what about the,

620
00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:44,000
the wives and husbands and
children that they bring

621
00:40:44,070 --> 00:40:48,560
home potential diseases to,
and they never tell them. Um,

622
00:40:49,650 --> 00:40:54,310
you, the, the taxpayer's money,
they pay for the drug treatments,

623
00:40:54,410 --> 00:40:57,430
the medical of these
sex traffick, you know,

624
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,670
women and men too. 'cause it's
becoming a bigger thing now with,

625
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:05,670
with young boys and young
men. It, it's, it's,

626
00:41:05,780 --> 00:41:09,470
it's not victimless. It's, there are
several victims everywhere you go.

627
00:41:10,490 --> 00:41:14,270
So anyhow, I did that. I learned
so much about it. Went, uh,

628
00:41:14,340 --> 00:41:17,910
made it through an academy. I
paid to go through an academy. Uh,

629
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:20,990
it was one of the hardest academies in
the state of California at the time. Uh,

630
00:41:20,990 --> 00:41:25,270
the only other two academies that
were a little rougher were, um,

631
00:41:26,190 --> 00:41:28,830
C H P or Los Angeles pd. Um,

632
00:41:28,910 --> 00:41:32,790
I went through the Sacramento County
Sheriff's Academy, was offered, um,

633
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,640
a contingent job. Um, but I had
to pass my psych and the medical,

634
00:41:38,190 --> 00:41:41,120
obviously medical wasn't a
problem. I go to the psych,

635
00:41:41,620 --> 00:41:43,160
the psychologist called me a liar.

636
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,120
I told them everything
because I was honest.

637
00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:52,480
And they told me that I was a
complete liar. They're like,

638
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,640
why didn't he get arrested? Well, 'cause
back then they didn't do that. Well,

639
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,080
did you ever think people didn't believe
you? Why wouldn't they believe me?

640
00:42:00,190 --> 00:42:03,390
Like why? Why? Well,
because you need attention.

641
00:42:04,670 --> 00:42:07,570
Did you think that I needed to get
attention By that, I mean, what a,

642
00:42:08,310 --> 00:42:11,970
that's a pretty sick mind to come
up with some of the stuff like,

643
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,850
just like not good. <laugh> not good.

644
00:42:15,790 --> 00:42:20,690
And so I felt victimized by this
process. It was a man, it was, um,

645
00:42:20,910 --> 00:42:23,210
Dr. Hartgrave, I don't wanna put his
name out there 'cause I don't care.

646
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:24,610
He's not around anymore, I don't think.

647
00:42:24,610 --> 00:42:28,450
But whatever he was known to do that
either he liked you or he didn't.

648
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:33,690
It was one of the only times in the
history that they were aware of up until

649
00:42:33,690 --> 00:42:34,850
that point that I, um,

650
00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:39,410
had a lieutenant and a captain
that could not believe it. Um,

651
00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:40,450
after I,

652
00:42:40,610 --> 00:42:45,490
I volunteered over a thousand hours
of my time to the department trying

653
00:42:45,490 --> 00:42:49,890
to show them, taking report, writing,
doing all this stuff on my own,

654
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,050
putting myself through an academy with
the hope that I was gonna have a job at

655
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:58,010
the end. He, he failed me on my psych.
So then, um, I get this letter saying,

656
00:42:58,010 --> 00:43:01,710
well, thank you, but no thank you. You
can apply again in a year. I'm like,

657
00:43:01,740 --> 00:43:03,350
what? So I can apply again in a year,

658
00:43:03,350 --> 00:43:05,510
go to him and then go
through this all over again.

659
00:43:05,710 --> 00:43:10,430
'cause the application process is brutal.
I asked if there's a way to appeal it.

660
00:43:12,030 --> 00:43:15,250
And so they said, yeah, there's
an appeal process. So I did.

661
00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:17,730
I went and paid for it. Uh,

662
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,550
went to another psychologist
who basically did not

663
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,750
understand what this doctor
was talking about and passed

664
00:43:27,850 --> 00:43:31,070
me. And then they said, okay,
great. Well you passed, but, um,

665
00:43:31,530 --> 00:43:36,430
our decision still stands. Uh, you
can apply again in a year. I'm like,

666
00:43:36,430 --> 00:43:39,070
okay, well I wish you would've told me
about that, but whatever. At that point,

667
00:43:39,110 --> 00:43:42,070
I didn't care. At least I had
somebody else saying that, no,

668
00:43:42,070 --> 00:43:46,710
you're not losing your shit.
You actually are pretty sound.

669
00:43:48,050 --> 00:43:52,750
And so I did, I reapplied again. I went
through the whole process again. Uh,

670
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:55,510
at this point then they had said, um,

671
00:43:56,140 --> 00:44:00,350
because there was some drama with my
husband's ex-wife. And then of course, uh,

672
00:44:00,570 --> 00:44:04,270
the background investigator at
that point was friends with her.

673
00:44:04,810 --> 00:44:08,590
Didn't get too far that time.
Um, which I was like, you know,

674
00:44:08,590 --> 00:44:13,150
it's just amazing the politics that,
that people play. So by this time,

675
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,110
we're at three, three years in.

676
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:22,150
And so I go and apply, um, to
Sutter County Sheriff's Department,

677
00:44:22,650 --> 00:44:26,470
and they send me through all the
background, the interviews, polygraph,

678
00:44:26,490 --> 00:44:30,830
all that good stuff. I finally got
offered a job. So I was working there,

679
00:44:31,230 --> 00:44:35,840
reserve deputy. And, uh, so I still, I
worked there part-time. Then I worked,

680
00:44:35,900 --> 00:44:39,880
um, at another job. And, um,
I did that for just under

681
00:44:41,590 --> 00:44:46,120
five years, or right about five years.
In the meantime, I was applying with the,

682
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,720
I would say the dark side, uh, the
Department of Corrections at the time.

683
00:44:51,830 --> 00:44:55,720
It's now department Corrections
and rehabilitation. And so, um,

684
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:59,920
went through a long process there and
was kind of getting drug through the mud.

685
00:44:59,980 --> 00:45:04,570
And then I just didn't hear anything.
I'm like, so does that just mean

686
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,810
it's over and that
you're not gonna hire me?

687
00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:12,450
So I hadn't heard anything for about
six months. And so I finally, I'm like,

688
00:45:12,450 --> 00:45:16,900
you know what? I'm gonna still
fight. I'm gonna fight for my,

689
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:20,620
my passion was to become a cop. I
called the background investigator.

690
00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:25,220
They ended up, um, talking or getting
to the guy that was assigned to me.

691
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,820
And I talked to him and he is like,
yeah, he is like, well, you know,

692
00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:29,340
we had some, a couple
of questionable things.

693
00:45:29,340 --> 00:45:30,980
Why don't you come in
and let's talk about it?

694
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,980
And so I went in and the things that
they were talking about, I was like,

695
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,380
why didn't anybody call
me? Why did we, you know,

696
00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:42,500
why did I have to call you guys? These
are all things that, that can be like,

697
00:45:43,010 --> 00:45:45,580
they're factual. Like you don't
have to just take my word.

698
00:45:45,740 --> 00:45:48,860
I can direct you to where you need to
go to find this information if you don't

699
00:45:48,930 --> 00:45:52,940
believe what I'm telling
you. What I learned through
that whole process is that,

700
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,700
um, being honest on your, uh,

701
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:59,060
job application for law enforcement
is not exactly the right thing to do.

702
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,900
But I will tell you that I did not lie
on my job applications, not any of them.

703
00:46:04,460 --> 00:46:06,940
I told them I had experimented with drugs,

704
00:46:07,350 --> 00:46:11,580
which is one reason why it took me
longer. I told them that I had, uh,

705
00:46:11,730 --> 00:46:14,620
been fired from a job. I told them, um,

706
00:46:14,970 --> 00:46:19,340
that I didn't pass an,
uh, psych background, um,

707
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:20,980
by one person. Um,

708
00:46:21,020 --> 00:46:24,620
I had had three other psych
backgrounds and passed all of 'em. So,

709
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:30,160
you know, it was just like
the, the ups and downs. Well,

710
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,480
I finally get through
that, get offered, uh,

711
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,560
a job with the Department of Corrections,
go through their four month academy.

712
00:46:35,860 --> 00:46:38,640
And I was 30 at the time. And then, um,

713
00:46:38,910 --> 00:46:41,920
went and worked for the
Department of Corrections. Uh,

714
00:46:42,260 --> 00:46:46,960
was there for nine
years or thereabout. Um,

715
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:52,000
was assaulted twice, um, by inmates.

716
00:46:52,460 --> 00:46:55,000
So I have permanent damage
in my back from it. Uh,

717
00:46:55,220 --> 00:46:58,450
was medically retired for four years.

718
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,690
Went back in 2015. Had to deal with
a lot of workplace, uh, bullying,

719
00:47:04,330 --> 00:47:07,810
A lot of, um, trauma was at, uh,

720
00:47:07,930 --> 00:47:10,850
C S P Sacramento off and on for 20 years.

721
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:14,170
Dealt with a lot of, a lot of murder,

722
00:47:15,250 --> 00:47:18,610
a lot of stabbings, a lot of hangings,

723
00:47:18,970 --> 00:47:22,530
a lot of officer misconduct with, um,

724
00:47:22,810 --> 00:47:27,570
a lot of people not being honest.
Before I left, I had promoted,

725
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:31,560
uh, to a correctional counselor.
And as a correctional counselor. Um,

726
00:47:33,260 --> 00:47:38,060
I really tried to help inmates, um,

727
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,680
in level four prisons, try to find

728
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,820
some accountability for their actions and

729
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:54,700
tried to give them guidance per the
new regulations with C D C R because

730
00:47:55,180 --> 00:47:57,900
I will say from the time that I
started to the time that I, uh,

731
00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:01,260
was medically retired, again
from a, an altercation, uh,

732
00:48:01,260 --> 00:48:05,660
the department did try and still, I
will say I will defend that part of,

733
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,300
of C D C R is that they, uh,

734
00:48:08,450 --> 00:48:12,710
they're getting much better
about offering programs

735
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:16,730
to inmates, offering educational programs,

736
00:48:17,370 --> 00:48:21,250
offering job opportunities,
offering counseling,

737
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,290
self-help classes, uh,

738
00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:28,730
teaching them like job certifications,
like plumbing, building maintenance,

739
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,170
welding, so on. And these
are accredited programs,

740
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:37,130
helping them with their basic,
uh, education through school,

741
00:48:37,130 --> 00:48:40,530
whether it's a high school diploma or G
E d and then getting them signed up for

742
00:48:40,530 --> 00:48:45,340
college. So I had tried really hard, uh,

743
00:48:45,380 --> 00:48:50,220
myself and another counselor that I'm
very close with, um, we always would say,

744
00:48:50,220 --> 00:48:55,170
if, you know, if these inmates are
gonna be let out at the rate that they

745
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:59,210
are and they're gonna be my neighbor,
then we need to teach 'em to act. Right?

746
00:48:59,750 --> 00:49:03,130
And so anyhow, just really
trying to help inmates

747
00:49:04,890 --> 00:49:07,750
to be better humans, to be better humans.

748
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:12,190
Some of those people need to be

749
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:16,270
incarcerated. There are
some that should never,

750
00:49:17,220 --> 00:49:18,990
ever be part of society.

751
00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:22,960
So with that being said,

752
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:28,600
that doesn't mean they still can't
better themselves in prison and stop some

753
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,920
of the behaviors that got them too.
Because what you see, especially with,

754
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:36,920
you know, generation after generation
going into our penal systems,

755
00:49:37,420 --> 00:49:40,480
is you see kids that honestly,
that's what they were taught.

756
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,880
They were taught how to
either die on the streets

757
00:49:45,620 --> 00:49:47,770
or to

758
00:49:49,980 --> 00:49:53,260
continue the behavior they did on the
streets inside the penal institutions.

759
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:57,660
And so trying to get them
to realize that, hey,

760
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,620
if there was ever a state you
could get out, this is the state.

761
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,780
But you have a lot of work to
do. And if you do that work,

762
00:50:09,150 --> 00:50:09,983
I promise you,

763
00:50:11,340 --> 00:50:16,040
you have every opportunity to get
out and be a productive human in

764
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,240
society. What you did
doesn't have to define you.

765
00:50:21,580 --> 00:50:25,080
You have to have accountability for
it. But it doesn't have to define you.

766
00:50:27,220 --> 00:50:29,200
And you know, there's, there's, you know,

767
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,440
some people that are hardcore
and they're just like, you know,

768
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,280
you're an inmate lover and you're
doing too much and you're doing,

769
00:50:36,020 --> 00:50:39,280
and my response would always
be, well, I'm doing my job.

770
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,300
And what does it matter if I help
them so that we don't have stabbings?

771
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,660
So we don't have officers
getting sliced up.

772
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,340
We don't have women being assaulted,

773
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,380
we don't have other
inmates being assaulted.

774
00:50:55,010 --> 00:50:59,620
What would it be like if we went
to our work in a penal institution

775
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,900
and people started behaving and
making better decisions? Why, why,

776
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,820
why are you mad at me for, for
trying to make that happen?

777
00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:11,540
'cause it's a lost cause. Well,
that's your interpretation.

778
00:51:12,060 --> 00:51:13,340
I will never give up on humanity.

779
00:51:14,420 --> 00:51:18,700
I also think that they benefit
financially from having havoc happen

780
00:51:19,090 --> 00:51:24,020
because it requires, oh yeah, time to
stay around longer after an altercation.

781
00:51:24,090 --> 00:51:25,060
They have paperwork.

782
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,100
It just adds to their
own financial padding.

783
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,910
Oh, there's a lot of corruption
in, in C D C R a lot,

784
00:51:36,010 --> 00:51:39,470
and they don't want you to talk about
it, but it happens on a regular basis.

785
00:51:39,610 --> 00:51:43,990
And the sad part is it happens
from the top on down. Um,

786
00:51:44,140 --> 00:51:49,110
I've been directly, um,
targeted from, from that.

787
00:51:50,030 --> 00:51:54,580
Again, I still am not going to
back down from anyone or anything.

788
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,860
Not my, uh, yeah. I don't know
how to do that very often. Well.

789
00:51:57,860 --> 00:52:00,780
You were created to be who you are, right?

790
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,220
You had to fight for yourself
and stand up for yourself.

791
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,540
And I think for the folks
that have gone through

792
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:11,740
tremendous fires,

793
00:52:12,990 --> 00:52:17,120
they develop, if they're lucky, they
either become serial killers, right?

794
00:52:17,140 --> 00:52:20,640
Or they develop a deep empathy for others,

795
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:25,800
and an understanding that no
matter how dismal and abysmal

796
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,640
a situation is, there is a way out.

797
00:52:29,410 --> 00:52:34,350
Right? Yes, I am. I
agree. I try to, I mean,

798
00:52:34,350 --> 00:52:39,330
if you don't have hope, you have
a dead body hanging in a cell.

799
00:52:40,070 --> 00:52:41,970
You have a friend taking their life,

800
00:52:42,990 --> 00:52:47,370
you have people making reckless
decisions that affect other people.

801
00:52:48,910 --> 00:52:53,430
And that's not, that's
not how I get down. I,

802
00:52:53,550 --> 00:52:58,270
I try to treat everybody with
compassion and kindness until I

803
00:52:58,510 --> 00:53:03,370
don't have the ability or the
reason to treat you with compassion

804
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:06,930
or kindness. But I'll try
talking you through it,

805
00:53:06,930 --> 00:53:09,410
because when I'm at that
point, you should not have,

806
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:13,730
you should not be surprised that I'm at,
I'm, I'm at a point with someone when,

807
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:16,410
um, I get there because I've,
I've given you every opportunity.

808
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:17,890
I've told you like,

809
00:53:17,890 --> 00:53:20,650
we're gonna go down this road and you're
not gonna like what I'm gonna tell you

810
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:25,420
because it's honest. I was
honest with my inmates.

811
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,580
Try to be as honest as I can with
my children, given their age.

812
00:53:30,130 --> 00:53:32,780
Well, your inmates
respected of, of you too.

813
00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:38,140
I think that it sounded
like you facilitated a level
of trust and respect where

814
00:53:38,450 --> 00:53:42,780
when something was happening, you could
step in and say, Hey guys, not okay.

815
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:43,900
And they would.

816
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:46,420
Listen. Oh, I did all the time.
Yeah, I did that all the time.

817
00:53:46,770 --> 00:53:49,180
When I'd have an inmate
that was, you know,

818
00:53:49,460 --> 00:53:53,700
drinking or an inmate that I could see
was going down a a hole with drugs,

819
00:53:54,260 --> 00:53:55,300
I would tell 'em. I'm like, look,

820
00:53:56,250 --> 00:53:58,310
why does your family care
more about you than you? Do?

821
00:53:58,370 --> 00:54:01,110
You need to cut this crap
out? Don't ask me for help.

822
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:04,790
When you're not willing to help
yourself, you need to figure it out.

823
00:54:05,010 --> 00:54:08,310
All you need to do is ask me,
Ms. Howard, I need some help.

824
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:12,690
And I will bend over backwards to
get you the help that you need.

825
00:54:13,150 --> 00:54:15,650
And I don't give a shit that you're
an inmate, because that's my job.

826
00:54:16,750 --> 00:54:21,530
And don't care if you're a coworker
that needs it. I don't care who you are.

827
00:54:22,450 --> 00:54:25,880
Everyone has somebody
who loves them. Everyone.

828
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,960
I don't know anyone in this world that
doesn't have somebody that cares about

829
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,400
them, loves them or likes them.
I just don't think so. Even,

830
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,780
you know, the bottom feeders, you know,

831
00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:43,660
I have zero compassion for child
molesters and zero compassion for rapists.

832
00:54:43,710 --> 00:54:44,780
Sorry, I don't have it.

833
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:49,060
I still will treat them with respect
if that is my job to do so. And I did.

834
00:54:50,180 --> 00:54:54,740
I didn't judge anyone unless you
gave me a reason to. And I did. I,

835
00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:58,910
I did as much as I possibly
could for my inmates

836
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,570
when they followed the rules
and I give them what they had

837
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,090
legally coming to them

838
00:55:07,970 --> 00:55:12,810
absolutely every single time. And
there was a lot of fallout. You know,

839
00:55:13,090 --> 00:55:16,770
I get labeled as an inmate
lover. Um, I would, uh,

840
00:55:16,910 --> 00:55:19,770
get watched by, um, investigations,

841
00:55:19,770 --> 00:55:24,250
thinking that I was bringing stuff
into inmates. I would be ostracized,

842
00:55:24,750 --> 00:55:25,080
uh,

843
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,650
when I would come into a room and all of
a sudden everybody would stop talking.

844
00:55:29,290 --> 00:55:33,450
I would get told, uh, you're doing too
much. Uh, you need to butt out. No,

845
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:36,610
you don't need to know
that. Even if it was my job,

846
00:55:37,090 --> 00:55:41,170
I didn't let it stop me from doing
my job. But at the end of the day,

847
00:55:41,170 --> 00:55:45,430
it was hard. It's, it's hard
to not be accepted sometimes.

848
00:55:45,580 --> 00:55:49,520
It's hard to not, you know,

849
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,880
to have people talk shit
about you for doing your job.

850
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,560
Absolutely. And especially
in that circumstance,

851
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:02,560
because I feel that prison is just
this whole other world in and of

852
00:56:02,660 --> 00:56:07,480
itself. It, it has a whole different
set of rules and circumstances and,

853
00:56:08,020 --> 00:56:12,000
and ethics and codes of honor. And
it's just, it's so multilayered.

854
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,200
And the minute you walk through
those doors, everything is different.

855
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:21,720
Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And,
and prisons are based off of gangs.

856
00:56:22,380 --> 00:56:23,040
Sad part is,

857
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,970
is that everybody wants to think that
it's just the inmates that have gangs. No,

858
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:27,833
it's not

859
00:56:29,070 --> 00:56:32,050
for people who have used excessive force,

860
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,620
that's technically a crime.

861
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:41,830
You can't beat the shit out of somebody
because you have a badge on your

862
00:56:41,830 --> 00:56:44,910
chest and then lie about
it in your rapport.

863
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,220
And I think that, um,

864
00:56:48,220 --> 00:56:53,010
people have done that off and on
throughout their career and they know it.

865
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:57,730
And I get it. Back then it wasn't as
highly publicized and it was accepted,

866
00:56:59,050 --> 00:57:02,890
but it's not anymore. So follow the rules

867
00:57:04,950 --> 00:57:07,010
and stop judging these inmates.

868
00:57:07,060 --> 00:57:09,650
There are inmates that I
will tell you to this day,

869
00:57:10,030 --> 00:57:14,090
I'd love to freaking give 'em a five
of clubs because they give me so much

870
00:57:14,090 --> 00:57:18,090
grief, or were so
disrespectful, or were like,

871
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:23,080
just such complete assholes. Like,

872
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:27,000
just cause me so much grief.
You know? I mean, I was blessed,

873
00:57:27,290 --> 00:57:29,520
thank God again, that I was never gassed,

874
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:32,560
but I have lots of friends that were.

875
00:57:33,260 --> 00:57:34,440
Can you explain what that is?

876
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:37,160
Yeah. So being gassed is, um,

877
00:57:37,350 --> 00:57:42,080
when an inmate will throw
some sort of liquid or

878
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,360
substance on you. So that could
be key. It could be water, um,

879
00:57:46,540 --> 00:57:50,680
it could be feces, blood. A lot of
them would, uh, that would have,

880
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,160
h i v would do that.

881
00:57:52,190 --> 00:57:56,840
They would cut bleed and
try to gas you with it, um,

882
00:57:56,860 --> 00:57:57,720
or dip, uh,

883
00:57:59,170 --> 00:58:02,960
darts in it and blow dart you
to try to give you hep C or,

884
00:58:03,260 --> 00:58:07,960
or h i v or throwing food, you
know, or semen, any kind of like,

885
00:58:08,140 --> 00:58:12,120
or Oh yeah, Siemen's a big one.
Yep, yep, yep. I've seen, I mean,

886
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,890
I thank God there was gloss
between me and, and, uh,

887
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:21,090
the inmate numerous times because I can
tell you on several occasions where,

888
00:58:21,390 --> 00:58:24,370
um, I've had inmates, um, masturbating and

889
00:58:26,930 --> 00:58:30,780
yeah, it's disgusting. It's, it's a
whole being victimized again. But yeah.

890
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:35,900
And it, and it, and it pisses you off,
but is my retirement and my family

891
00:58:38,060 --> 00:58:39,850
worth that is the, is my,

892
00:58:39,870 --> 00:58:43,930
my quality of life worth

893
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,320
an inmate. They're
there because they made,

894
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:51,760
they made bad choices.

895
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:58,030
Why am I going to not have control
and make a bad choice that's

896
00:58:58,030 --> 00:59:01,110
going to affect my entire
family and my future? And.

897
00:59:01,180 --> 00:59:06,070
Also making those choices make you no
better than the person that you are make

898
00:59:06,090 --> 00:59:08,870
you know, that has pissed you
off in the first place. Correct.

899
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,990
Right. I mean, through life people are
gonna piss you off. Sure. Really bad.

900
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:15,910
Sometimes, sometimes they're,

901
00:59:16,020 --> 00:59:19,390
they're gonna make you so mad that you
wanna put your hands on them. For me,

902
00:59:19,830 --> 00:59:24,180
I would normally get in my car and
drive home and cry because I was so mad

903
00:59:24,650 --> 00:59:28,700
that I needed to have some
sort of physical release
and I couldn't put my hands

904
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,740
on someone. So I would go run,

905
00:59:32,020 --> 00:59:35,060
I would go work out or
I would just cry. You.

906
00:59:35,370 --> 00:59:38,140
Were honored with the Medal of Valor?

907
00:59:40,050 --> 00:59:40,883
I was.

908
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:42,460
Can you tell me about that?

909
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,060
I'm not somebody who likes to
have a lot of attention on myself.

910
00:59:46,140 --> 00:59:49,500
I like being part of a
lot of things that go on,

911
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,620
but I don't like the spotlight
necessarily on me so much.

912
00:59:54,020 --> 00:59:56,700
I would much more prefer
it being on everybody else.

913
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,820
It was sometimes I'm proud
of, I had done c p r on,

914
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:05,740
on two inmates in my career,
and both of them, um,

915
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,700
did not make it. I mean, they
had life threatening wounds,

916
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,660
but it still takes a toll
on you psychologically.

917
01:00:14,460 --> 01:00:19,060
I was off work actually because I
was in altercation with an inmate

918
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,180
and had just had surgery on my wrist and

919
01:00:24,410 --> 01:00:29,080
covid, you know, it shut everything
down. And so my friend who's with me,

920
01:00:29,090 --> 01:00:33,400
Cindy says, let's go, you
know, uh, mimosa house is open.

921
01:00:34,010 --> 01:00:38,960
Let's go and have some mimosas and
breakfast. I'm like, okay, let's do this.

922
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:43,280
I actually had my, I was kinda
had my, my backside to them,

923
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:48,240
i i the table and she's talking
to me. And then the next thing

924
01:00:50,070 --> 01:00:53,240
I notice is she's like, um,
something's going on over there.

925
01:00:53,820 --> 01:00:58,080
So I turn and I look at a table,
she's like, Jenny, he's choking.

926
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:00,780
And I'm like, oh my gosh.

927
01:01:01,900 --> 01:01:04,560
And everyone is just watching.

928
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:11,060
So I get up and I go and I'm like, you
know, I'm Jen. I'm a peace officer.

929
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,980
And I look at the guy, I'm like, can
you breathe? And he shakes his head, no,

930
01:01:16,100 --> 01:01:20,290
'cause he can't talk. And I
said, you cannot get any air in.

931
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,290
He's like shaking his head no.

932
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:28,100
And you could see him
laboring to try to get it out.

933
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,340
And so I give him a couple breasts.
I said, I'm gonna try to help you.

934
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,860
Is that okay? And he shakes his
head, his meanwhile his wife,

935
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,540
and he has a, like a, I wanna say
he was probably like two years old,

936
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:43,060
little two year old son.

937
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,060
And his mom and his dad were there
and they're all watching, oh, this is,

938
01:01:48,060 --> 01:01:51,840
this can't happen today.
This cannot happen today.

939
01:01:52,460 --> 01:01:53,720
And so I

940
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,330
pounded on his back a couple
times and it didn't help.

941
01:02:00,510 --> 01:02:05,290
And so I told his dad, um, I said,
okay, this is what I'm gonna do.

942
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:09,890
And I went behind and I said, I'm gonna,
I'm going to thrust really hard. Okay?

943
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,610
It's, it's gonna hurt.

944
01:02:12,990 --> 01:02:17,250
And I didn't probably,
oh my gosh, three, four,

945
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,650
I wanna say maybe even a little bit
more. He was a, he was a pretty big guy.

946
01:02:21,870 --> 01:02:26,210
He was, he was bigger than me and
I'm not small and I'm thrusting.

947
01:02:26,670 --> 01:02:31,650
And finally I just, I, his,
his lips started turning blue.

948
01:02:31,870 --> 01:02:35,570
And you could tell that he was
just from me holding him, like,

949
01:02:36,550 --> 01:02:40,530
not limp, but becoming weak.
I finally am like, oh, Uhuh.

950
01:02:40,990 --> 01:02:45,450
And I gave it everything I had and

951
01:02:45,890 --> 01:02:50,210
a chunk of the size of
like almost a golf ball.

952
01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:52,170
It was pretty freaking big.

953
01:02:53,380 --> 01:02:57,010
Those flying out. And then, you know,

954
01:02:57,190 --> 01:03:01,210
all the neat things that happened after
that, he ended up throwing up. And

955
01:03:02,970 --> 01:03:05,920
the poor guy, like, it was,

956
01:03:06,180 --> 01:03:10,840
it was just something that, you
know, I just tapped. I'm like,

957
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:15,040
are you okay? Do you need me to
call for medical? And I, you know,

958
01:03:15,470 --> 01:03:19,400
just from training it, you know,
said, you know, somebody called 9 1 1

959
01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:25,470
and I don't think anybody did. And
so I was just so caught up in like,

960
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:30,030
this is not happening in front of this
kid's son. It's just not happening.

961
01:03:30,290 --> 01:03:33,630
So afterwards kind of had
like an adrenaline dump,

962
01:03:34,450 --> 01:03:37,190
and then I actually had to excuse
myself and go to the bathroom.

963
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:41,870
I was shaking so bad. It
was very scary hindsight.

964
01:03:42,810 --> 01:03:46,070
But during the actual event, um,

965
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,720
I just didn't think anything about it. I

966
01:03:52,890 --> 01:03:55,580
like law enforcement. That's
what we're trained. We,

967
01:03:55,640 --> 01:04:00,380
we go through so much that I don't
think a lot of people understand that

968
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,140
we go through so much training.

969
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,100
We see so many life altering events.

970
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:10,580
We're in the middle of
so many things where

971
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:16,020
all we wanna do is make sure people
breathe at the end of the day that they're

972
01:04:16,020 --> 01:04:18,580
with their families and that
everybody's okay and they're safe.

973
01:04:20,130 --> 01:04:25,110
And it was pretty cool
to know that least this

974
01:04:25,110 --> 01:04:27,270
guy was gonna have another day
with his kid and his family.

975
01:04:28,340 --> 01:04:33,190
Then my husband had sent one of
my lieutenants a message just

976
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:38,020
saying, Hey, I'm not sure if Jen said
anything, um, but this is what happened.

977
01:04:38,020 --> 01:04:40,700
And he is like, uh, no, she
didn't say anything. I'm like.

978
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:44,420
Who gave you the commendation? Is that
a government or is that, uh, your work?

979
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:45,433
Who does that?

980
01:04:45,660 --> 01:04:50,420
C D C R. They, California Department of
Corrections actually honored me for it,

981
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:51,720
so.

982
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,420
That's awesome. Well done. Did
you do the Heimlich Maneuver? Is.

983
01:04:56,420 --> 01:04:59,740
That So people, like, I know a lot of
times when they go through CPR training,

984
01:04:59,770 --> 01:05:04,140
sometimes people just don't take it
super serious and first aid and CPR R

985
01:05:04,340 --> 01:05:08,300
training, you never think you're
gonna use it. We all think,

986
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,020
oh my gosh, I'm gonna get this.
I'm gonna get my little car.

987
01:05:11,540 --> 01:05:14,340
'cause it's just another car that I have
to do in order to do something else.

988
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,840
My training is what allowed me

989
01:05:20,450 --> 01:05:24,500
to not think, but to do,
I've worked with, you know,

990
01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:29,220
the Department of Corrections since
2002. Prior to that I was with the, uh,

991
01:05:29,220 --> 01:05:31,460
Sutter County Sheriff's
Department from 98.

992
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,660
And then I went to the
Sheriff's Academy in 96, 95,

993
01:05:36,020 --> 01:05:40,740
I started really on my
adventure down this road of law

994
01:05:40,740 --> 01:05:43,220
enforcement. So since then,

995
01:05:43,500 --> 01:05:48,490
I have taken numerous every
two years taking your C

996
01:05:48,570 --> 01:05:53,290
P R and first aid training. You still
just don't think you're going to use it.

997
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:58,050
What if today is the day that it
finally is the day You gotta know this.

998
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,290
It's when you least expect it.

999
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,650
That day I expected to go have
brunch and cocktails with my friend.

1000
01:06:05,410 --> 01:06:08,570
I always wonder how hard to do it. You
know what I mean? When I think about it.

1001
01:06:08,570 --> 01:06:10,050
Like if I had to do that for somebody,

1002
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:15,210
I've babysat little ones
who've unfortunately shoved
something down their throat

1003
01:06:15,210 --> 01:06:17,570
and you have to reach down
there and pull it out by hand.

1004
01:06:17,710 --> 01:06:20,490
But for a grown human that you have to,

1005
01:06:21,250 --> 01:06:23,410
I don't know if I would
know how hard to do it.

1006
01:06:24,270 --> 01:06:28,010
You do it with as much force as you
think you can give. You pound the back,

1007
01:06:28,190 --> 01:06:31,890
try to see if you can cough it up,
you know, and you're burping a baby,

1008
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:36,090
what happens? You pound their
back and they burp. Right.

1009
01:06:36,190 --> 01:06:37,690
Or puke or Right. <laugh>.

1010
01:06:38,550 --> 01:06:43,450
So you kind of start with that
level with everything is always

1011
01:06:44,130 --> 01:06:46,690
progressive. You don't start
at the top and then down,

1012
01:06:46,690 --> 01:06:49,690
but you always start at the
bottom and try to work up. Well.

1013
01:06:49,690 --> 01:06:53,810
And the adrenaline probably of coursing
through you also probably did not hurt,

1014
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:55,063
I'm sure.

1015
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:56,350
Yeah.

1016
01:06:56,350 --> 01:06:59,170
But I think what you said is
so poignant. You said you,

1017
01:06:59,350 --> 01:07:02,850
you learn it so that you don't
think, you just do, you just,

1018
01:07:03,150 --> 01:07:06,370
you act in the moment. You don't,
your brain doesn't go wait what?

1019
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:10,010
You just do it by natural instinct.

1020
01:07:10,860 --> 01:07:11,693
Right.

1021
01:07:11,790 --> 01:07:12,690
Wow. What a story.

1022
01:07:12,950 --> 01:07:16,410
I'm sure that guy will never take
giant bites of his food again.

1023
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:23,290
This world is so full up
of terrible that we have to

1024
01:07:23,290 --> 01:07:28,250
celebrate the good and we have to
celebrate the good doers because

1025
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:31,250
if we don't, we will
drown in the terrible.

1026
01:07:31,550 --> 01:07:35,130
And I know there are more good
doers than there are bad doers,

1027
01:07:35,350 --> 01:07:39,490
but the bad doers are really loud.
Well, you're awesome, as I said before,

1028
01:07:39,590 --> 01:07:42,210
and I really appreciate you
sharing that story is very cool.

1029
01:07:43,030 --> 01:07:46,130
You know, telling you about it. I'm
like, oh my God, am I being conceited?

1030
01:07:46,190 --> 01:07:46,870
Am I like.

1031
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:48,370
No, listen. I mean,

1032
01:07:48,370 --> 01:07:51,810
there's a lot of things about telling
the story and why it's important. One,

1033
01:07:52,060 --> 01:07:55,850
again, it's great to shine the light on
people who do good in the world. Two,

1034
01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:00,130
it's badass. You got a Medal of Valor
who can say that? Not very many people.

1035
01:08:00,420 --> 01:08:04,410
Three, it may say somebody's
life, both from the, the,

1036
01:08:04,550 --> 01:08:07,170
the idea that they learn c p r,

1037
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:11,810
they learn the Heimlich or they take
some smaller bites or whatever it is.

1038
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:14,770
You don't, you don't know.
Everything is a ripple effect.

1039
01:08:15,330 --> 01:08:19,200
Every moment of our lives
has a cause and effect.

1040
01:08:20,220 --> 01:08:20,630
Right?

1041
01:08:20,630 --> 01:08:25,570
And so somebody listening might go and
renew their C P R or get C P R or take

1042
01:08:25,570 --> 01:08:28,650
smaller bites. <laugh>, what do
you do now? Wait, you've retired.

1043
01:08:29,570 --> 01:08:32,290
I have, I've been medically retired
now for a little over a year.

1044
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:37,290
I'm pretty active in, um, my
children's, uh, baseball. So I am a,

1045
01:08:37,410 --> 01:08:40,450
a board member with our, our
little league doing sponsorships.

1046
01:08:40,850 --> 01:08:45,490
I try to bring in as much money
as I can. Um, with our nonprofit,

1047
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,610
it's the first time that they've ever
had somebody bring in the kind of

1048
01:08:48,890 --> 01:08:53,650
resources that I've been able to master.
We've been able to financially, uh,

1049
01:08:53,650 --> 01:08:58,330
give back to our community and help out
with children who may be less fortunate,

1050
01:08:58,430 --> 01:09:01,690
or kids that have more
than one sibling that, uh,

1051
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:06,050
join and being able to provide them with
a scholarship to play ball for free.

1052
01:09:06,270 --> 01:09:09,930
We give 'em a uniform, they
need equipment, we help
'em with their equipment.

1053
01:09:10,550 --> 01:09:14,290
Uh, each year we've been doing
more, um, with our All Stars. Uh,

1054
01:09:14,650 --> 01:09:17,850
normally the families have to
pay, you know, for everything.

1055
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:21,010
And we were able to really
discount it this year.

1056
01:09:21,350 --> 01:09:23,530
And then the league paid
for a portion of it.

1057
01:09:24,330 --> 01:09:28,610
I got kind of roped into
being a manager of our, um,

1058
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,530
juniors team, which are,
uh, 13 and 14 year old boys.

1059
01:09:34,430 --> 01:09:36,130
Oh boy. <laugh>.

1060
01:09:36,510 --> 01:09:37,343
That's a lot.

1061
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,170
Yeah. But it's been great.

1062
01:09:39,170 --> 01:09:42,610
They're a great bunch of kids
and my thoughts are always like,

1063
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:47,930
if I have the energy, the time,
if I have an ounce left in me,

1064
01:09:49,530 --> 01:09:52,490
I wanna give back. Um,
because I don't want kids.

1065
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,520
I always feel like idle
hands do the devil's work,

1066
01:09:56,570 --> 01:10:00,440
especially with our inner city
kids and just keeping them busy.

1067
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:02,880
I feel like if you keep them busy,

1068
01:10:04,350 --> 01:10:06,560
there's less opportunity for
bad things to happen to them.

1069
01:10:08,220 --> 01:10:12,720
And it provides them
choices, shows them a skill,

1070
01:10:13,210 --> 01:10:17,160
shows 'em respect, shows 'em how
they work as a team with their peers.

1071
01:10:17,660 --> 01:10:21,960
It builds memories and relationships
and it's sometimes the only safe

1072
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,160
environment some kids have.

1073
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:26,890
I played little League from the
time I was eight until I was 14,

1074
01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:32,110
and then I played softball
in high school. So it's been,

1075
01:10:32,180 --> 01:10:36,750
it's been super rewarding.
And then, so I also have, um,

1076
01:10:37,890 --> 01:10:40,750
uh, small business where
I, uh, do event planning,

1077
01:10:40,750 --> 01:10:45,270
photography and floral arrangements
for weddings and, you know,

1078
01:10:45,370 --> 01:10:47,630
big to-dos and then do for photography.

1079
01:10:47,850 --> 01:10:52,750
And then I plan a lot of those events
and what have you. And that's hit,

1080
01:10:52,850 --> 01:10:53,683
hit or miss.

1081
01:10:53,890 --> 01:10:54,910
What's your company called?

1082
01:10:55,690 --> 01:10:58,590
Um, moments Captured
by Gin. I love it. It,

1083
01:10:58,660 --> 01:11:01,390
it's something that is so
different from prison. Um,

1084
01:11:01,450 --> 01:11:03,230
it allows me opportunity to be creative.

1085
01:11:04,090 --> 01:11:08,350
So then I decided to go back to
work part-time with elementary.

1086
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:12,990
I will tell you it, uh, I've only
been doing it for a couple months.

1087
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,400
I started doing crossing
guard at the, the school.

1088
01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:21,680
I'm now doing the meal duty supervisor
and, um, instructional assistant.

1089
01:11:22,500 --> 01:11:24,920
Oh my gosh. The little
kids. I just, I love them.

1090
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:30,400
Yeah. I assume too, with your
background, you are able to catch, uh,

1091
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:35,080
glimpses of kids that might be in
trouble and step in and help. Yeah.

1092
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:39,440
Absolutely. Absolutely. I will
tell you right from the get,

1093
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:42,440
there are children that I could
tell you right now, if, you know,

1094
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:47,240
if it wasn't such a confidential
situation where you could go and step

1095
01:11:47,300 --> 01:11:48,720
in, um, I could literally,

1096
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:54,060
I guarantee you could point
to several children and

1097
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:59,020
I'm pretty certain I'd be spot
on. So what I do is I try to, um,

1098
01:11:59,970 --> 01:12:02,710
just be present when I'm around them.

1099
01:12:03,450 --> 01:12:06,510
And these are things I've learned
from these teachers. I will tell you,

1100
01:12:06,550 --> 01:12:11,220
I have such a respect for teachers.
I don't necessarily for their, um,

1101
01:12:11,530 --> 01:12:14,980
association, but I absolutely do for
the teachers that go out there. I see.

1102
01:12:15,050 --> 01:12:15,883
Yeah, for sure.

1103
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,740
The tools they have and the things that
they come up with and how quickly they

1104
01:12:19,740 --> 01:12:23,300
do it. And I'm just like, oh my gosh,
how does your brain work that quick? I,

1105
01:12:23,650 --> 01:12:24,220
they're on.

1106
01:12:24,220 --> 01:12:29,060
The front line. They're on, they're
definitely, I don't know. It's,

1107
01:12:29,370 --> 01:12:34,060
it's such a humongous job. Uh,
it is desperately unappreciated,

1108
01:12:34,060 --> 01:12:35,420
unfortunately. By many.

1109
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:37,033
By many.

1110
01:12:37,180 --> 01:12:40,340
I really appreciate that you took
the time to, to speak with me and,

1111
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,180
and thank you. I just, I
think you're a badass. Really.

1112
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:45,820
Aw, you're so sweet. Thanks. Yeah.

1113
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:50,700
You have to have some sort of strength
in you in order to get through

1114
01:12:51,850 --> 01:12:56,420
some other things. Yeah, for sure.
Definitely, definitely, definitely.

1115
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:57,513
So.

1116
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,620
People listening, I think that
anyone listening, you know,

1117
01:13:00,620 --> 01:13:01,820
who is going through some things,

1118
01:13:02,180 --> 01:13:05,660
I hope that they hear your story and
know that they can make it to the other

1119
01:13:05,730 --> 01:13:06,563
side.

1120
01:13:07,380 --> 01:13:11,780
I agree. I hope that if there's
anything, um, that comes from this,

1121
01:13:11,950 --> 01:13:12,580
first of all,

1122
01:13:12,580 --> 01:13:17,460
thank you so much for the opportunity
that is so kind for you to think that, um,

1123
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,110
my life has, um,

1124
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:25,010
enough interest to maybe
impact somebody. Then I, I,

1125
01:13:25,130 --> 01:13:28,610
I have to give thanks to God because he
is the only one that's got me through

1126
01:13:28,610 --> 01:13:33,610
all of this and helped me show me the
pathways that I needed to go to not

1127
01:13:33,610 --> 01:13:37,850
give up on myself. And just letting
people know that, you know, there's,

1128
01:13:37,850 --> 01:13:42,170
there's, there's fight. If you just
live real deep down inside of you,

1129
01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:43,090
there's fight.

1130
01:13:43,090 --> 01:13:48,090
And this life is worth living for no
matter how deep and how desperate and how

1131
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:53,050
dark it seems. If you just open your eyes,
you will at some point see the light,

1132
01:13:53,630 --> 01:13:54,463
but you have to change.

1133
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,490
Yeah, yeah. And hang on, hang on, hang.

1134
01:13:58,490 --> 01:14:01,170
On, hang on. I love it. Hang on human.

1135
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,930
Hang on human, Jennifer,
thank you. Thank you.

1136
01:14:05,190 --> 01:14:06,530
You're awesome. You're.

1137
01:14:06,530 --> 01:14:10,850
Awesome. Lemme know. Thank you for
listening everybody. Bye. You take care.

1138
01:14:10,990 --> 01:14:11,823
Bye-bye.

1139
01:14:14,910 --> 01:14:18,800
Rate review and subscribe to Hey Human
on iTunes or wherever you get your

1140
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:20,840
podcasts. Thanks, bye.