1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,580 Hey humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. 2 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,220 Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey Human Podcast. 3 00:00:15,770 --> 00:00:16,060 This. 4 00:00:16,060 --> 00:00:18,020 Is episode 371, 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,020 and I had a conversation with US Army General Gary Mike Jones. 6 00:00:22,810 --> 00:00:25,180 General Mike Jones is a military legend. 7 00:00:25,650 --> 00:00:30,500 Some of his career milestones include Commander Third Special Forces Group, 8 00:00:30,500 --> 00:00:34,260 airborne Deputy Commanding General United States Army Special Operations 9 00:00:34,260 --> 00:00:38,020 Command, deputy Director, central Intelligence Agency, 10 00:00:38,020 --> 00:00:39,300 counter-Terrorism Center, 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,300 deputy Commander Combined Joint Task Force Mountain during Operation and during 12 00:00:44,570 --> 00:00:46,340 Freedom Afghanistan, 13 00:00:47,190 --> 00:00:51,140 commanding General Special Operations Europe and Commanding General US Army 14 00:00:51,140 --> 00:00:54,140 Special Forces Command. And the list goes on and on. 15 00:00:54,140 --> 00:00:55,700 That's just the tip of the iceberg. 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,180 He was very generous with his time and we had such an interesting conversation. 17 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:05,220 I really appreciated everything he had to say. 18 00:01:05,220 --> 00:01:07,620 Obviously there are a lot of things that are secret, 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,300 top secret he can't talk about, 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,260 but he was really great about answering so much of of the questions I had. 21 00:01:15,140 --> 00:01:19,660 I wanna say a special thank you again for seven years of, Hey, human Podcast. 22 00:01:19,890 --> 00:01:21,540 Last week was my anniversary special, 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,180 and my friend Trevor interviewed me for that, for you all. 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,300 And I really appreciate all the listens and the shares and all the good thoughts 25 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:32,860 and good words. And, and thank you so much for that. 26 00:01:32,860 --> 00:01:36,900 And I hope you enjoyed that table turning episode where I get interviewed. 27 00:01:37,060 --> 00:01:37,893 I had a blast. 28 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:42,700 I wanted to bring up a show I watched this week that I loved called Jury Duty. 29 00:01:42,730 --> 00:01:44,860 It's on Amazon, it's hilarious. 30 00:01:45,570 --> 00:01:50,060 It's about this regular guy, just, it's a very Truman show. 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,940 So this guy answered an ad and he thought he was doing jury duty. 32 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,860 And this is not a spoiler. This is the premise of the show. 33 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,700 And everyone around him is an actor, but he doesn't know it. 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,020 And they go through the whole trial and at the end, you know, they let him know. 35 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,340 But, whoa, 36 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:10,340 it was so extraordinary to see this guy reacting to scenarios. 37 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:15,260 He doesn't know that it's fake. It was so well done. It's very beautiful. 38 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,940 It was funny. There's so much kindness. It was, 39 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,340 it was really lovely to watch. And two books. 40 00:02:22,580 --> 00:02:25,540 I just finished the Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman. 41 00:02:25,860 --> 00:02:30,380 I love Neil Gaiman. I've never read this book. It's so good. 42 00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:35,140 I loved it. And the other is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin w Kemmerer. 43 00:02:35,850 --> 00:02:39,980 It's beautiful. I highly, highly, highly recommend that book as well. 44 00:02:40,710 --> 00:02:42,940 Check out, Hey, human podcast for links. 45 00:02:42,940 --> 00:02:46,820 And to learn more about my guests and the show, check out Susan ruth.com. 46 00:02:46,820 --> 00:02:49,420 To learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,620 follow Susan Ruth and hey, human podcast on social media. Find my albums, 48 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,380 all my music on Spotify, apple Music, Amazon, wherever you get your music. 49 00:02:58,970 --> 00:03:02,500 Look for my album. All I ever wanted was everything. Look for my album. 50 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,700 How to Say Goodbye, surfacing to Breathe. There's a few out there. Also, 51 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:10,460 check out my relationships and sex show with sexologists and healthcare 52 00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:14,460 practitioner, Mara Edelman on YouTube under, are We There yet? Podcast show. 53 00:03:14,990 --> 00:03:19,620 We're gonna slow down for the summer and they'll be coming out only once a month 54 00:03:19,620 --> 00:03:22,780 through the summer. But there's, I think, gosh, 55 00:03:23,140 --> 00:03:27,580 I think there's over 30 episodes maybe on there already. Lots of fun. 56 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,860 Please rate reviews, subscribe to Hey, 57 00:03:29,860 --> 00:03:33,700 human Podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. 58 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,940 And thank you for listening. Be well. Be safe, 59 00:03:39,130 --> 00:03:43,660 take care of each other, be love. And here we go, 60 00:03:46,220 --> 00:03:50,270 general Gary, Mike Jones. Welcome to Hey, human. 61 00:03:50,930 --> 00:03:52,310 Hey, that's great to be here with you. 62 00:03:53,050 --> 00:03:54,830 And you prefer, you prefer Mike. 63 00:03:55,460 --> 00:03:57,230 Mike is my preferred name, correct. 64 00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:59,990 Okay. Well, Mike, it's a pleasure to have you here. 65 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:01,993 Pleasure to be here. 66 00:04:02,380 --> 00:04:05,840 And you are a retired general in the Army. 67 00:04:06,380 --> 00:04:11,120 That's correct. Yeah. I retired from the Army in, uh, 2006. Yeah. 68 00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:12,023 Long service. 69 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:16,630 28 Years. Uh, you know, it, it, uh, 70 00:04:16,690 --> 00:04:18,350 it went faster than I thought it would, 71 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,700 but you kind of come to a point and I guess your career when you know it's the 72 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:26,900 right time for you to stay or leave once you recognize that you move on. 73 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,900 And really, to me it was more about family than it was anything else? 74 00:04:30,580 --> 00:04:34,220 I always wondered that about the military. I know that it's in blocks, right? 75 00:04:34,250 --> 00:04:37,660 When you sign up, you have a particular number of years that you serve. 76 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,300 But then once you get past that, 77 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,940 are you're allowed to just sort of stick around as long as you want? 78 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:42,793 Or how's that work? 79 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:43,960 We have two. 80 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,180 You have commissioned officers and you have non-commissioned officers, 81 00:04:47,370 --> 00:04:52,060 what we call the N C O and the Officer Corps. Mostly the officers, uh, 82 00:04:52,060 --> 00:04:53,660 once they come in the army, they're, 83 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:57,780 they're in until either they are promoted out. 84 00:04:58,050 --> 00:05:00,460 When I say promoted out their service to the, 85 00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:03,620 I guess the nation or to the army is no longer needed. 86 00:05:04,490 --> 00:05:08,230 And they decide it's time for them to go home and do something else. Uh, 87 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,270 their performance might have been great, but, uh, 88 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:16,080 there's no other job that they really have that they can do based 89 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,960 upon their rank. Some officers don't do as well, and you know, 90 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,040 their performance doesn't make them competitive for the next level. 91 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:26,400 So they make a decision that it's not, you know, 92 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,280 in their best interest to stay around. So, you know, most officers stay in, 93 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,480 I would hope at least 20 years, but they lot stayed longer. 94 00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:40,380 Uh, some don't stay more than 10 years. But, uh, 95 00:05:40,380 --> 00:05:42,300 it's just a matter of personal choice really. 96 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:44,900 I guess that's the great thing about a volunteer army. 97 00:05:45,070 --> 00:05:48,140 Let's go back to the beginning of you. Where are you from originally? 98 00:05:48,140 --> 00:05:48,980 Where'd you grow up? 99 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:54,060 I'm from Shreveport, Louisiana. Uh, that's where I grew up. After high school, 100 00:05:54,380 --> 00:05:58,340 I accepted a, uh, football scholarship at Louisiana State University, 101 00:05:58,340 --> 00:06:02,110 and then went to Louisiana State University and then spent four years there, 102 00:06:02,340 --> 00:06:06,550 graduated from there and then entered the Army on the 5th of August, 1977. 103 00:06:06,850 --> 00:06:08,590 Was your family a military family? 104 00:06:09,290 --> 00:06:12,310 No, no one at all was in the military. You know, I really never had real, 105 00:06:12,370 --> 00:06:15,190 an intention of going to the army when I went to the military. I mean, 106 00:06:15,190 --> 00:06:19,670 when I went to, uh, college football was really my life. I loved football. 107 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:20,830 It was what I liked to do. 108 00:06:21,790 --> 00:06:25,600 I was very competitive as a football player and, and did well. 109 00:06:26,470 --> 00:06:31,130 But I had a serious injury in my second year there. Uh, dislocated my knee and, 110 00:06:31,830 --> 00:06:33,810 uh, severed the pottail artery in the knee, 111 00:06:34,380 --> 00:06:39,270 which almost caused me to lose the leg. So went through a, uh, 112 00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:41,670 rehabilitation process. It was pretty extensive, 113 00:06:41,770 --> 00:06:45,310 but continued to stay and play for the remaining years that I was there. 114 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:49,430 However, my first year there, Vietnam draft was still on. 115 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,130 And, uh, my coach, when I came up to me one day and said, 116 00:06:55,130 --> 00:06:55,963 come here son. 117 00:06:56,610 --> 00:07:00,110 And there was a newspaper article that held the draft notices on it, 118 00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:03,000 the numbers. And he looked at it and he pointed, he says, 119 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,680 that's your draft number right there. If you're in the RTC program, 120 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,720 you're not gonna be drafted and you can stay and play football, 121 00:07:09,420 --> 00:07:13,360 but if you don't join the RTC program, you can be drafted. He says, 122 00:07:13,380 --> 00:07:17,200 now it's your personal choice. You do what you want to do. I said, well, 123 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,440 gee cos that's, uh, Louisiana Math, I think I can figure that one out. 124 00:07:20,820 --> 00:07:23,480 So immediately went to the r o TC department and signed up. 125 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,980 Now I had no intention of staying there for four years and then taking a 126 00:07:29,980 --> 00:07:33,140 commission in the Army I was doing because the coach said, 127 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:36,970 do you wanna play football young man? Uh, this is what you need to do. 128 00:07:37,550 --> 00:07:39,330 So I followed my coach's instruction, 129 00:07:39,430 --> 00:07:44,000 but I grew to where I really liked the program and I liked the people in it. Uh, 130 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,490 the first Green Beret that I ever really met and a one-on-one engagement was a, 131 00:07:48,550 --> 00:07:52,610 uh, R O t TC instructor named zike, major Arki, well, 132 00:07:52,610 --> 00:07:55,290 captain Zike at that time had just come out of Vietnam. 133 00:07:55,910 --> 00:08:00,090 And then there was a special force of Sergeant Major named Raki. 134 00:08:01,150 --> 00:08:05,010 And both of those two were kind of my mentors while I was at the program at LS 135 00:08:05,010 --> 00:08:06,010 u, they, 136 00:08:06,010 --> 00:08:09,730 the ones that helped guide me and probably one of the reasons I joined Special 137 00:08:09,730 --> 00:08:13,090 Forces was because of those two guys. But anyway, that, 138 00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:14,450 that's kind of how it got started. 139 00:08:15,470 --> 00:08:16,303 Was it, 140 00:08:16,830 --> 00:08:20,490 as a young man looking at the future, 141 00:08:21,140 --> 00:08:25,010 being in R O T C, which for those that don't understand, uh, that's, uh, 142 00:08:25,230 --> 00:08:28,370 that's the officer training program, uh. 143 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:29,810 Officer training corps. 144 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:30,650 Mm-hmm. . Yeah. 145 00:08:31,150 --> 00:08:35,770 So knowing that the Vietnam War was going on and 146 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,730 what the potentiality of that for you meant, was there fear around that at all? 147 00:08:40,730 --> 00:08:41,770 Or was it simply, 148 00:08:42,110 --> 00:08:46,610 I'm gonna play football that's that I probably won't ever see a 149 00:08:46,610 --> 00:08:47,443 battlefield? 150 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:52,330 Well, but, you know, I had no intention of staying in the R TC program. I mean, 151 00:08:52,690 --> 00:08:54,490 honestly, I thought, well, when Vietnam War is over with, 152 00:08:54,490 --> 00:08:58,460 I'll get outta R O T C. I don't have to worry about that anymore. But, um, 153 00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:02,300 I hurt my knee and I started to reconsider what my options were going to be. 154 00:09:03,380 --> 00:09:04,213 And I said, well, 155 00:09:04,420 --> 00:09:07,240 you're probably not gonna play pro football after this cuz you're not gonna have 156 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,110 the same speed you had, uh, same agility, 157 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,620 but the R O T C program looks good. And I remember Art Zike, 158 00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:18,060 major Zike telling me one day, he said, you know, Mike, 159 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,780 one of the things you really need to think about is your retirement that the 160 00:09:21,980 --> 00:09:25,460 military will provide for you and the medical care that they will provide for 161 00:09:25,460 --> 00:09:26,980 you after you leave the service. 162 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,700 And if you want to continue your education, 163 00:09:31,150 --> 00:09:34,500 there are programs in the Army that will allow you to continue your education. 164 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,220 And to me, that was very, very attractive. 165 00:09:36,730 --> 00:09:39,460 That wasn't the prime reason I did it, but it was a, 166 00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:43,540 a huge part of why I continued to stay in that program. 167 00:09:44,570 --> 00:09:48,720 There was also the one convenient piece that when you were a junior, 168 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:53,840 you became an advanced student in the R T C program and they paid you a 169 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,510 hundred dollars a month. So for me as a young student, that was wonderful. 170 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,410 However, you know, the commitment is after that when you graduate, 171 00:10:03,430 --> 00:10:07,730 you have to decide to take a regular Army Commission are a reserve commission. 172 00:10:08,350 --> 00:10:10,450 And the regular Army commissions were hard to get. 173 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,810 Most of the guys outta West Point got the regular Army commissions. 174 00:10:13,870 --> 00:10:16,570 And then if you did well in your O T C program, 175 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,410 were distinguished military graduate, 176 00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:21,450 you would be offered a regular Army commission. 177 00:10:21,470 --> 00:10:25,370 And I was fortunate enough to be a A D M G distinguished military graduate and 178 00:10:25,610 --> 00:10:28,290 received a regular Army commission. So I took it. 179 00:10:29,510 --> 00:10:33,370 Do you have recollections of, especially during the Vietnam era, 180 00:10:33,970 --> 00:10:38,610 recollections of people around you, friends, even family, that were thinking, 181 00:10:38,610 --> 00:10:43,010 what are you doing? Because I remember reading about the sentiments against. 182 00:10:43,950 --> 00:10:44,690 Oh yeah. 183 00:10:44,690 --> 00:10:45,523 Military at the time. 184 00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:47,930 Lot of protests on campus. Uh, 185 00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:51,690 there were specific segments that tried to recruit us, you know, 186 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:56,690 to not stay in r o tc, but be part of the anti-war movement. And then, 187 00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:59,690 you know, of course we had, we were young, young men, young kids. 188 00:11:00,230 --> 00:11:03,210 You had your other friend that would make fun of him because you wear a uniform. 189 00:11:04,070 --> 00:11:08,330 You, you know, I had a good friend who was, who was my lifelong friend, and we, 190 00:11:08,470 --> 00:11:13,320 we still, uh, correspond and talk just about once a month as Dr. 191 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:14,183 Mike Leonard. 192 00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:17,360 We both played high school football together and then went to college together 193 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,760 and played. And he, he was a little bit of a rabble rouser, 194 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,600 but he would hide outside of the bushes in the morning early when I had to go 195 00:11:26,060 --> 00:11:28,440 to the rot O T C department, I had to wear my uniform. 196 00:11:29,270 --> 00:11:32,520 He'd jump out of the bushes and salute me and, you know, just gimme a, 197 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,360 a little bit of, you know, uh, 198 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,320 I guess you would say poking at or, or cajoling. 199 00:11:41,020 --> 00:11:44,200 It was all in good fun. And we loved each other very much, 200 00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:46,920 so it really didn't matter. But it's just always remember that. 201 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:51,520 But he wasn't one of those that, uh, was anti army. 202 00:11:52,190 --> 00:11:53,260 It's just, it was, was a, 203 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,860 it was a way that friends could kind of pick at each other. So anyway, 204 00:11:57,930 --> 00:12:00,500 that was, that was the only time, only, only thing I ever remember. 205 00:12:01,420 --> 00:12:05,540 I think people can be anti-war and pro-military at the same time. 206 00:12:06,370 --> 00:12:08,020 Yeah. Well, I think, you know, 207 00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:12,090 some people look at the people and not necessarily the organization, 208 00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:15,850 and they're able to separate the organization from the people once they know the 209 00:12:15,850 --> 00:12:19,010 people, they recognize who they are, what their heart's about, 210 00:12:19,010 --> 00:12:22,010 what their mind's about what they believe or don't believe in. 211 00:12:22,990 --> 00:12:27,370 And it's easier for them to warm up to you than we had a lot of cases like that. 212 00:12:27,490 --> 00:12:30,880 I mean, there's one guy that continued to try to recruit me. Uh, 213 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,960 of course I didn't agree with him. He didn't agree with me, 214 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,560 but we'd sit down and have coffee. We became, 215 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,160 I guess you would say cordial friends. I respected him for his position on the, 216 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,200 on the, on the war. And he respected me on my position to serve the nation. 217 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:47,920 Wasn't necessarily about going to Vietnam, it was about serving the nation. 218 00:12:49,260 --> 00:12:50,470 What does that mean to you? 219 00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:53,910 Serving the nation means everything to me. 220 00:12:54,670 --> 00:12:59,470 I think it's what gives us our national identity as a nation. You know, 221 00:12:59,470 --> 00:13:00,790 if you're willing to serve the nation, 222 00:13:01,490 --> 00:13:04,430 you're serving something greater than yourself, which is extremely important. 223 00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:08,790 It's a concept that I wish we could really get back to with some of our youth. 224 00:13:09,810 --> 00:13:14,750 Uh, I believe that it would also be something I think would help us as a nation 225 00:13:15,330 --> 00:13:17,910 in making decisions. And the reason I say that is, 226 00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:22,870 is that our congressmen and senators, their children don't all serve. Therefore, 227 00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:27,790 that's easy for them to make decisions about sending young men to war if it 228 00:13:27,790 --> 00:13:32,210 doesn't affect them directly. Now, as a politician, of course, 229 00:13:32,210 --> 00:13:34,450 they'll always say, oh, yes, it affects us directly. 230 00:13:34,450 --> 00:13:37,370 We care about all constituents. But I think it, 231 00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:42,010 it hits home a little bit more when their son or daughter could be, uh, 232 00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:46,850 placed in the same position of other young men and women in the nation that have 233 00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:51,500 elected to serve. So when all are part of this decision, 234 00:13:52,340 --> 00:13:55,740 I think it creates a unity within the nation that's a little bit different from 235 00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:58,600 what we have right now. When you look at the service, 236 00:13:58,830 --> 00:14:03,360 what you find is probably less than 1% of the population is than the 237 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:04,513 military. 238 00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:09,590 And through time you can create this unique culture 239 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:14,870 that doesn't necessarily fit in to the nation probably the way it should. 240 00:14:15,490 --> 00:14:16,710 And the reason I say that is, 241 00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:21,430 is what you will find is military families will start having children 242 00:14:21,610 --> 00:14:24,950 and their children serving in the, in the military. 243 00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:30,430 And it becomes so myopic that you don't have that exposure and connection 244 00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:35,590 to your American culture and all of those people who don't serve. 245 00:14:36,450 --> 00:14:37,310 So, you know, 246 00:14:37,310 --> 00:14:41,190 you're in the army thinking you're doing something very noble for the nation, 247 00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:46,670 but you can also adopt this view that we are special 248 00:14:47,530 --> 00:14:50,590 and we're the only ones that are given to the nation like we should, 249 00:14:50,590 --> 00:14:53,780 which is not necessarily the truth. So, you know, 250 00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:58,700 there's a little bit on both sides there as to why it's important to serve the 251 00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:02,020 nation at large. Now, I don't care who, what it is you serve, 252 00:15:02,020 --> 00:15:03,620 whether it's Peace Corps, 253 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,540 the State Department medical outreach programs, 254 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,660 but something from a national perspective that is sponsored by the nation 255 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,780 to help others or to serve someone other than yourself. 256 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,420 That's why I think national service and this issue is extremely important. 257 00:15:22,780 --> 00:15:26,520 Do you think we should reinstitute not necessarily the draft itself, 258 00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:31,320 but an idea of that where I I personally feel like 259 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:34,560 if Americans had, uh, 260 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,160 a set number of couple years when they hit 18, 261 00:15:37,230 --> 00:15:41,720 that where they do serve their community or the nation in some capacity, 262 00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:45,240 we would see a stronger, more fortified 263 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,120 humanity within each other because it, it would put people in positions, 264 00:15:51,180 --> 00:15:56,040 as you pointed out, they've never seen Habitat for Humanity. People will see, 265 00:15:56,140 --> 00:16:00,480 oh, there's people that don't even have homesteads. There are, you know, 266 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,400 a soup kitchen that's service things. But. 267 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,880 The, the idea has to be something that's greater than oneself has to be to serve 268 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,160 others. I mean, that's the problem. You know, 269 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,480 we we're all serving ourselves and you really have to 270 00:16:15,820 --> 00:16:18,480 create this heart of serving others. I mean, 271 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,120 I think that every 18 year old in the United States should serve as nation for a 272 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,520 minimum of two years. I don't care what field it's in, if it's, 273 00:16:25,870 --> 00:16:30,120 it's working as an E M T, if it's working as a police officer, 274 00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:35,080 if it's working for the Peace Corps, if it's working for Habitat for Humanity, 275 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,440 whatever that might be, our military. And you have to make a choice, 276 00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:42,000 but you're gonna do it. And because of that, 277 00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:46,600 we put people together that normally would not even talk, 278 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:52,160 and they're forced as a team and an organization to do something together to 279 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,640 achieve an outcome that is greater than oneself. So that, 280 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,800 that's very important. Now, I, for me, you know, that came through sports. 281 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,560 I mean, you know, sports made us, no matter where we came from, 282 00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:11,030 no matter what color, creed, what community, 283 00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:14,270 it didn't really matter when you went out on that football field, 284 00:17:14,770 --> 00:17:16,470 you all had to pull together to win. 285 00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:21,840 And it made you recognize that all men, 286 00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:23,760 as we stay in our constitution, 287 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,120 are created equal endowed by the creator with certain inalienable rights. 288 00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:32,680 And because of that, you can really understand it, even in a, you know, 289 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:33,880 a concept of a sport. 290 00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:37,760 But I think we also need to do that for those who don't experience that through 291 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,060 some type of national service. I mean, we've got a great nation, 292 00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:42,100 we've got great people. 293 00:17:43,050 --> 00:17:46,870 The challenge that I think we have today is we've created these ch chasms, 294 00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:47,830 you know, 295 00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:52,620 between ideologies where we just don't talk anymore and we have no 296 00:17:52,820 --> 00:17:53,860 position of compromise. 297 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,500 And we should always have some form of compromise that allows us to achieve 298 00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:03,380 something that helps all achieve what is necessary in the best 299 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:04,533 interest of the nation. 300 00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:05,540 Yeah, 301 00:18:05,540 --> 00:18:09,700 it's hard not to see where we are now and think that there wasn't sort of a hand 302 00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:14,260 guiding that, that that schism in some way or another. 303 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,340 But, but I know that's conspiracy theory, but it's also, 304 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,780 it seems like what a, 305 00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:23,060 what better way to bring down a nation than to make it eat itself? 306 00:18:24,250 --> 00:18:27,740 Well, I mean, you know, many historians and many, uh, 307 00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:32,060 ideologues throughout history have basically stated that that is, uh, 308 00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:36,110 that's the one thing that will destroy America. I mean, Stalin said, you know, 309 00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:40,750 it's not about us defeating the United States with a force of arms. 310 00:18:41,180 --> 00:18:46,120 They will destroy themselves at their own will. And, you know, it's, 311 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:47,080 there's a lot to that. 312 00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:52,530 But I think it all goes back to this issue of understanding 313 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,010 that it's not about you, it's about a nation. It's about a, 314 00:18:57,010 --> 00:18:58,330 it's about a national goal. 315 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,730 It's about achieving what's in the best interest of all citizens and doing that 316 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,090 without you being first. 317 00:19:06,550 --> 00:19:09,970 And if you can put yourself in that position and do that, I, 318 00:19:10,050 --> 00:19:13,810 I think the rewards are greater in life than you could ever imagine. I mean, 319 00:19:13,810 --> 00:19:15,490 you'll meet people you never knew. I mean, 320 00:19:15,490 --> 00:19:18,090 people that you would never even consider to be your friends. 321 00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:21,810 It'll be your lifelong friends because of those types of experience. 322 00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:25,610 Or sometimes it's arduous, sometimes it's challenging. 323 00:19:26,130 --> 00:19:27,690 A lot of times it's uncomfortable. 324 00:19:28,550 --> 00:19:32,090 But through that comes great growth in humans. 325 00:19:33,870 --> 00:19:38,490 We have reached a very interesting point in society where 326 00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:40,773 folks, 327 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,010 curiosity seemed to be at an all time low and also 328 00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:49,890 critical thinking. And also, as you said, 329 00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:54,130 the idea of of getting out and meeting people different than oneself, 330 00:19:54,430 --> 00:19:57,090 the tribalism is at an all time high. 331 00:19:58,670 --> 00:20:01,720 Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I, I really believe that. 332 00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:07,280 But I do believe a lot of it is cause of, uh, the technology. You know, 333 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,160 now we have more information available to us than we've ever had in our lives 334 00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:13,160 that are on the tips of our fingers. 335 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:18,200 But the challenge is in many ways is if you're not a critical thinker, you know, 336 00:20:18,220 --> 00:20:20,760 you take that information based upon its, 337 00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:26,160 its face value and you run with it where really what you should be doing is 338 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,800 examining many different forms of the information that you're looking at to 339 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:35,320 verify for yourself or whomever other you might purport this position to be 340 00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:40,000 that it is accurate. Okay. And if it's not accurate, then you need to, 341 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:43,400 you need to accept that. However, you know, 342 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,220 we find people that no longer, I think, uh, 343 00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:52,190 focus on the value of what I consider truth, which is truth and information, 344 00:20:53,050 --> 00:20:57,310 and are more inclined to accept ideologies and, and, 345 00:20:57,690 --> 00:21:01,430 and trade truth for ideology, uh, versus, you know, 346 00:21:02,290 --> 00:21:04,550 accept the ideology just for what it is. 347 00:21:05,540 --> 00:21:05,830 Yeah. 348 00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:10,590 It's my understanding that the military is supposed to be apolitical. 349 00:21:10,590 --> 00:21:13,550 They're not supposed to get involved in politics in any way, shape or form, 350 00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:18,670 in order to be a perfect working entity in and of itself 351 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:22,790 without any kind of influence by who, for example, 352 00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:25,110 is in the White House or in the Senate, or, 353 00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:28,710 and we are seeing this huge 354 00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:34,030 influence by politic. And next to that, 355 00:21:34,250 --> 00:21:38,550 the whispering of a religious impact. Mm-hmm. . 356 00:21:39,010 --> 00:21:43,630 And how do you see that going, moving forward? Obviously right now, 357 00:21:43,860 --> 00:21:48,070 some of the military is being held a bit captive by some political 358 00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:53,310 doings. How do we get away from that? How do we fix that? 359 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:55,433 Well, first of all, 360 00:21:55,660 --> 00:22:00,650 there was a Marine Corps general in named Lac about maybe 30 years ago, 361 00:22:00,850 --> 00:22:05,690 wrote an article about, um, what happened to the Roman legions, 362 00:22:06,110 --> 00:22:07,490 uh, during the Roman Empire. 363 00:22:08,170 --> 00:22:12,710 And it was about 48 BC when the gospel of bi Theas attacked Rome 364 00:22:12,970 --> 00:22:15,750 and defeated the Roman army. And he said, 365 00:22:15,770 --> 00:22:19,750 it started many years before that with politicization of the military. 366 00:22:20,890 --> 00:22:24,670 And it started with what was called the p pretorian guard. Now, 367 00:22:24,670 --> 00:22:28,630 I don't know if you know what the Pretorian guard was a pretorian guard, uh, 368 00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:32,630 the movie Gladiator. You see these men who wear these purple, uh, 369 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,190 togas and Roman uniforms, and they protect the Caesar. 370 00:22:38,010 --> 00:22:39,590 Before that, the Roman Legion, 371 00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:42,310 every morning they would go through and inspect the Roman Legion, 372 00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:45,990 the Centurion who took care of a group of about a hundred men. 373 00:22:46,530 --> 00:22:48,110 He was like the non-commissioned officer. 374 00:22:48,170 --> 00:22:49,670 And he would inspect them every morning. 375 00:22:49,690 --> 00:22:52,310 And they had a blood breastplate called a Sirus. 376 00:22:52,850 --> 00:22:57,150 And you could tell that the Sirus was being well-maintained by the sound 377 00:22:57,700 --> 00:22:59,190 when you strike the Cirrus. 378 00:22:59,890 --> 00:23:04,070 So every morning they would go by and they would salute and say Veritas. 379 00:23:05,290 --> 00:23:08,830 And it really was referring to, uh, 380 00:23:08,850 --> 00:23:11,390 the unity of the unit as a whole. 381 00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:15,910 And as if one of those breast plates was off, Centurion would say, well, 382 00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:17,950 you're not taking care of your breast plate. He'd be punished. 383 00:23:18,130 --> 00:23:22,950 But the importance of that was that all of those seriouses needed 384 00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:26,350 to be maintained so they could maintain the, 385 00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:31,640 the shield that was required when under attack and protect 386 00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:36,400 himself, so that if one guy fell, it would cause us weakness in the, 387 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,680 in the unit. So they had to keep those things well-maintained. Well, 388 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,720 that was because the focus was on the unit, the organization as a whole. 389 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,100 It wasn't about the one individual. 390 00:23:48,030 --> 00:23:52,410 And later they started to take officers out of the, uh, 391 00:23:52,510 --> 00:23:55,730 Legion and they had them protect the Caesar. 392 00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:59,770 And the motto of the Pretorian guard was Hell, Caesar. 393 00:24:00,190 --> 00:24:04,530 So the focus went from a unit's wellness and wholeness 394 00:24:05,150 --> 00:24:09,660 to that of being allegiant to one individual, to one person, 395 00:24:10,350 --> 00:24:14,420 which started to change the way the Roman Legion operated. And so, 396 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,260 as these officers did their tours or time with the 397 00:24:19,330 --> 00:24:22,140 Caesars and they went back into the Legion, 398 00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:27,460 they were more focused on the politics of supporting the Caesar and not 399 00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:29,660 maintaining the wellness of the organization. 400 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,580 And through time they didn't train as well, they didn't practice as much, 401 00:24:34,930 --> 00:24:36,740 they didn't maintain their equipment as well. 402 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,060 And it started to destroy the legion. 403 00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:44,260 They wouldn't give good sound military advice to their leaders. 404 00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:49,860 They just started to rot from the inside because of this politicization. 405 00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:53,820 I believe that in many ways, we need to look at our military today and, 406 00:24:53,820 --> 00:24:55,660 and ask ourselves, is this a challenge? 407 00:24:55,660 --> 00:25:00,420 We have this requirement for officers to be successful by going and serving 408 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,390 in Washington DC and it's necessary that we understand how 409 00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:07,470 Washington works. Uh, 410 00:25:07,470 --> 00:25:10,670 because you can't compete as a large service like the Army, Navy, 411 00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:11,830 air Force Marines, 412 00:25:12,130 --> 00:25:16,750 unless you understand the budget cycles and how to get money and how to 413 00:25:16,990 --> 00:25:19,830 maintain that money to, to, uh, 414 00:25:19,850 --> 00:25:24,750 do research and development and product and procurement and create things that 415 00:25:24,860 --> 00:25:29,430 protect your soldiers or your Navy or your air force and make us a lethal 416 00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:32,510 fighting force. I mean, there's one, there's one job that, 417 00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:37,270 that d o d has only one job that's to fight and win the 418 00:25:37,270 --> 00:25:38,990 nation's wars, period. 419 00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:44,190 It's not about going and being a politician in Washington DC and it's not about 420 00:25:44,190 --> 00:25:46,870 staying up there for 4, 5, 10 years. 421 00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:51,910 It's about how do we ensure that our army, navy, 422 00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:56,790 air force and marines our home to the best skill 423 00:25:57,230 --> 00:26:01,430 possible to fight and win the nation's wars have called upon to do. So, 424 00:26:02,140 --> 00:26:06,940 that's, that's what they exist for. Nothing else. Now, you know, 425 00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:10,380 some of us would think that this diversity inclusion, d e i, 426 00:26:10,420 --> 00:26:13,220 I believe was the term diversity, equity, and inclusion 427 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,780 was their focus. And a lot of that's been going on now, 428 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,460 but that's not the focus. And when we lose sight of that focus, 429 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,300 we kind of find ourselves in the same position of the Roman Legion when the 430 00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,910 Roman Legion fell. So we need to, we need to pay attention to that. I mean, 431 00:26:32,490 --> 00:26:32,790 you know, 432 00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:36,390 these officers that serve in Washington DC they should probably only be up there 433 00:26:36,410 --> 00:26:38,870 one or two years and get back out to these units. 434 00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:43,340 So they're with these young soldiers every day to see what their challenges in 435 00:26:43,340 --> 00:26:46,900 life are and how to train them to do what it is they do. 436 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,460 The closer they are to these soldiers every day, 437 00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:53,260 the more focused they are on ensuring that they're prepared to do their job. 438 00:26:53,930 --> 00:26:57,980 Because it's their responsibility to make sure that these young sons and 439 00:26:58,180 --> 00:27:02,700 daughters of America come home alive if called up on to do so. And that's, 440 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,740 that's, that's their number one fight and win the war and make sure the sons and 441 00:27:07,820 --> 00:27:10,580 daughters of America come home alive. That's their job. 442 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,380 How does one try to protect the military forces 443 00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:20,220 from being influenced? And I'm not talking about generals, maybe some generals, 444 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,260 the, the quote, everyday boots on the ground type. What, 445 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,740 if any precautionary measures are made to make sure they aren't indoctrinated 446 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,820 and to seeing their service as not being 447 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,460 of a nation, but maybe of little pockets of a nation. 448 00:27:41,020 --> 00:27:45,380 A leader responsibility to ensure that he, he advises his soldiers from what's, 449 00:27:46,090 --> 00:27:49,860 what their job is and what it is they're really there to do. I mean, 450 00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:53,420 you'll find, it's interesting. I, I noticed this from my career to the career. 451 00:27:53,490 --> 00:27:58,140 I've seen these young men and I saw it's creeping in as I, I got older, 452 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,580 but I remember as a young man being a captain for like 13 years, you know, 453 00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:04,980 some of these guys are not captains for more than four years now, 454 00:28:04,980 --> 00:28:08,060 but it was 13 years. And I didn't know anything about being a captain, 455 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,940 but I loved it. I thought it was the greatest job in the world. I mean, I just, 456 00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:14,940 I couldn't imagine being anything else. I was so happy doing what I was doing. 457 00:28:15,620 --> 00:28:19,940 I knew my skill. Well, I could train soldiers. Well, I mean, 458 00:28:19,940 --> 00:28:22,620 I could get out in the field cause I was physically fit enough to do everything 459 00:28:22,620 --> 00:28:26,060 that needed to be done. And one day some guy called me and said, Hey, 460 00:28:26,060 --> 00:28:29,820 do you have one of those saucer caps with the scrambled eggs on top? I go, no, 461 00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:31,700 I don't even know what that is. He goes, well, 462 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,500 you need to go get one cuz you're getting ready to get promoted to major. 463 00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:39,950 Now today a young kid understands how to 464 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,270 track his career from the time he was a lieutenant to a first lieutenant, 465 00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:46,790 to a captain, to a major, to a lieutenant car. 466 00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:48,830 He knows all the jobs he needs to have. 467 00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:51,860 We didn't do that when I was in the army. 468 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,620 Our leaders decided who was gonna get promoted based on the way you could 469 00:28:56,650 --> 00:28:58,980 perform the functions that they gave you to perform. 470 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,620 And were you technically and tactically competent in doing what it is they asked 471 00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:07,980 you to do? And, you know, were you a team? You know, 472 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,020 did you understand how to team build? Did you understand how to lead? 473 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,540 Did you put yourself in adversity like the others did? 474 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,300 Did you ensure that the things that you asked them to do, 475 00:29:18,550 --> 00:29:23,140 there was nothing that you wouldn't do that you were asking them to do. And oh, 476 00:29:23,140 --> 00:29:23,973 by the way, 477 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,180 did you always lead from the front on those types of issues so that your 478 00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:32,500 soldiers saw it and they understood that you were in this with them together? 479 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,110 Now, I never even thought about getting promoted. 480 00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:42,860 I mean, it just happened. And that happened for many, 481 00:29:42,860 --> 00:29:45,860 many years until I got older. And then people were kind of going, golly, 482 00:29:45,860 --> 00:29:48,340 you see all these young men, they're, you know, they're, 483 00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:52,060 they want to get counseled on how to make sure they understand how to get 484 00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:56,380 promoted to this level here instead of worrying about the job that they are in 485 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,620 and doing the best that they could at that, 486 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:03,500 ensuring they delivered the best service to their soldiers. And where they were, 487 00:30:03,810 --> 00:30:08,740 they were extremely competent in what they were being required to do at their 488 00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:09,573 level. 489 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:12,900 Don't worry about this guy above you and how you gonna do his job or the guy's 490 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:16,780 next job. That's not your focus. Your focus is where you are right now. 491 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,300 And I saw that changing a lot. I really did. And it's, 492 00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:21,340 it's difficult to protect, 493 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,220 but good leaders will call their people in and talk to 'em 494 00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:29,060 every quarter, every month about their performance. 495 00:30:29,490 --> 00:30:31,180 What it is you like about what they do, 496 00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:35,500 what it is you don't like about what they do and what they should do to improve, 497 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,300 to be a better soldier in their art. And if you're not doing that, 498 00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:43,670 then that's where you're letting the system down. I mean, 499 00:30:44,350 --> 00:30:48,950 I had a thing called pa Pairwise comparison that I had a file on every officer 500 00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:53,560 in my organization and every nco and every time I had a contact with him, 501 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:55,080 I'd make a note about that contact. 502 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,820 And every quarter I would call 'em in each one of 'em and spend maybe an hour 503 00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:02,900 with them. And I'd go through everything that I had in there. 504 00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:07,080 They ran into you the other day, you know, you hadn't shaved in the morning, 505 00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:09,130 you looked sloppy, you know, 506 00:31:09,630 --> 00:31:13,890 ran into you five days later and you looked like you'd shaved 15 times. I mean, 507 00:31:13,890 --> 00:31:14,230 you know, 508 00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:18,620 things that not just highlighted those things they were doing negatively, 509 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,980 but ensuring that they understood. They made the corrections, you know, 510 00:31:21,980 --> 00:31:23,820 they were, they were, they were doing better, 511 00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:26,700 their soldiers were looking better. I mean, those types of things. 512 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,500 You see all of that. And you run into, you know, ethical dilemmas and, 513 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,580 and moral dilemmas with some people in many times. 514 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,580 And you have to ensure that they understand that those things, either, 515 00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:39,400 either right or wrong. So, you know, being a soldier is, uh, 516 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:42,960 is something that you really have to consider the moral aspects of everything 517 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,760 that you do. Cause once you're out there on the battlefield, 518 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:46,880 there's not a lot of people looking. 519 00:31:47,540 --> 00:31:52,150 And little organizations can go awry real quick based upon the 520 00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:54,550 conditions that they're in. I mean, 521 00:31:54,550 --> 00:31:57,630 I remember listening to a presentation from some, 522 00:31:57,630 --> 00:32:00,890 seeing some NCOs after Afghanistan. 523 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,370 We'd been there for at least I'd say 1, 2, 3, 4, about four years. 524 00:32:06,370 --> 00:32:09,190 And I would always go down and talk to 'em about their experience and see how 525 00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:11,350 they were doing and kind of give 'em a little head check. 526 00:32:11,490 --> 00:32:14,830 But we were talking about, um, 527 00:32:15,540 --> 00:32:17,830 loyalty and integrity. 528 00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:23,690 And the dilemma that was posed was that you're in the field and you're fighting 529 00:32:23,710 --> 00:32:25,770 and you've lost three guys on your team that were killed. 530 00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:30,250 You were close friends with him, and all of a sudden you captured this guy that, 531 00:32:30,370 --> 00:32:34,950 you know, was responsible for their deaths. What do you do? Okay, 532 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,750 right? You gonna treat him as a prisoner of war in accordance with the, 533 00:32:38,890 --> 00:32:42,780 the the laws of land warfare. How you gonna treat 'em? You know, one guy goes, 534 00:32:42,780 --> 00:32:45,700 well, I'll tell you what, sir, we just take around and deal with them. I said, 535 00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:48,220 what do you mean deal with them? He goes, well, we're just gonna deal with 'em. 536 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,220 You know, sir, we're all, we've all been through this, you know, 537 00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:53,980 we know what's going on out there. We don't take care of them. 538 00:32:53,980 --> 00:32:57,410 They're gonna take care of us. I go, really? Is that, 539 00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:59,730 is that the way you look at it? And he goes, well, that's loyalty. 540 00:32:59,940 --> 00:33:01,570 We're gonna be loyal to each other. I said, 541 00:33:01,570 --> 00:33:05,370 what if the criminal investigation command comes down after this is over with 542 00:33:05,370 --> 00:33:09,750 and asks you what happened? And you know, one of you gets says, well, we, 543 00:33:09,770 --> 00:33:13,920 we shot him and killed him in cold blood. And the others are going, oh, 544 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,440 we didn't do that. No, that's imp we didn't do that. I said, well, 545 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,160 this will all see the light of day. I said, 546 00:33:21,340 --> 00:33:26,000 so on your team, this concept of loyalty is, uh, 547 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,160 a misgiving. I said, what you should be focused on is your integrity. 548 00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:32,680 And a rule you should always think about is, 549 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,520 is when somebody's appealing to your loyalty, 550 00:33:34,550 --> 00:33:36,320 they're probably asking you to do something wrong. 551 00:33:37,150 --> 00:33:40,800 When they appeal to your integrity, they're asking you to do something right. 552 00:33:41,420 --> 00:33:46,320 And your integrity tells you that you know that this is not right and you 553 00:33:46,370 --> 00:33:47,203 can't do this. 554 00:33:47,620 --> 00:33:51,800 But if you step across that line and protect of this 555 00:33:52,780 --> 00:33:56,160 and are a part of it, you're a criminal like any other criminal, 556 00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:59,570 and no one can help you. At that point. I said, 557 00:33:59,570 --> 00:34:02,970 so you need to remember this rule. If they're appealing to your loyalty, 558 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,770 they're probably asking you to do something wrong. 559 00:34:04,790 --> 00:34:05,810 If they're appealing to your integrity, 560 00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:07,810 they're asking you to do something right. You know, 561 00:34:07,810 --> 00:34:08,970 you could have heard a pin drop in there. 562 00:34:08,970 --> 00:34:11,970 And all of a sudden this NCO came up to me afterwards. He goes, 563 00:34:11,970 --> 00:34:15,210 you're absolutely right, sir. We never stepped across the line on that. 564 00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:17,840 But we came close to it. And he says, 565 00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:22,720 I'll ensure that I'll have never let that happen in my tour in the military. 566 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,840 I said, what's that's good on you, son? I said, because if you ever do that, 567 00:34:26,630 --> 00:34:28,650 you know, you, you're gonna have to pay the price for it. 568 00:34:28,740 --> 00:34:30,090 Cause you're a criminal if you do. 569 00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:34,480 And that's the one thing that separates us is the United States military and 570 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,480 many places that we go, you know, we believe in the rules of, of law, 571 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,313 of land warfare. 572 00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:44,080 And we believe it's important that you cannot step across the line and violate 573 00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:48,280 that. And there are others that do, other nations that do that. Russians have, 574 00:34:48,580 --> 00:34:52,720 I'm sure, and as Ukrainian issue, and I'm sure some of the Ukrainians had too, 575 00:34:53,220 --> 00:34:54,400 but we can't let that happen. 576 00:34:54,860 --> 00:34:57,520 And I'm sure there were some conditions in Vietnam when that happened, 577 00:34:57,900 --> 00:35:00,880 and I heard stories about it. I wasn't there. So I don't know. 578 00:35:01,460 --> 00:35:02,293 But you know what, 579 00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:06,880 you're gonna be there one day and you'll have your opportunity to do the right 580 00:35:06,930 --> 00:35:10,000 thing. So the young man have to understand that. 581 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,160 And I think that that's where leadership is important, 582 00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:17,360 making sure that they understand these ethical values and how they are 583 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,160 important. And they cannot be violated if you're in, 584 00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:22,800 if you're reinforcing these things with them all the time. 585 00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:27,040 That's the one way that you keep your force on the right azimuth. 586 00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:31,120 And that azimuth is a moral asthma. So, you know, that's, 587 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,240 that's kind of my look at it. 588 00:35:32,590 --> 00:35:36,640 It's also complicated because when situations do come to light, 589 00:35:36,860 --> 00:35:41,060 as they often do, uh, for example, like in Iraq, 590 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,340 it then shines this negative light on the entirety of the forces 591 00:35:47,250 --> 00:35:50,460 because four or five people do heinous acts, 592 00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:54,620 then therefore all of the military 593 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,240 operates like them. What? It's not like that, of course, 594 00:35:59,380 --> 00:36:03,640 but that's what people then extrapolate from what they're learning. 595 00:36:04,030 --> 00:36:07,280 They don't know any better. What would you expect them to know to, I mean sure. 596 00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:12,320 Look, they're just know. They, they think, whoa, that's the military. Okay. 597 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,060 Yeah. That's, that's what they do. Oh, no, it's not. I mean, you know, 598 00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:20,220 a leader's responsibility is to ensure that the moral asthma is, 599 00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:23,220 that's kept straight in everything that you do under all conditions. 600 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:24,940 How do you prepare? 601 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,300 I'm sure you've had to have these conversations as you've gone up through the 602 00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:33,220 ranks that how do you prepare someone to do 603 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,700 the, to do the duty of where they will likely be in a, 604 00:36:38,860 --> 00:36:42,060 a situation where they have to take another person's life, 605 00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:45,860 which of course goes against all the stuff they've been taught up until then. 606 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,770 Well, every soldier has the right self-defense on the battlefield. I mean, 607 00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:55,330 he understands what we call the rules of engagement. You know, 608 00:36:55,330 --> 00:36:58,530 if you're in a fire base and the enemy attacks the fire base, 609 00:36:58,790 --> 00:37:03,630 you have to defend yourself. So, you know, you either, you either fight or die. 610 00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:05,470 I mean, that's kind of, that's kind of what happens. 611 00:37:05,930 --> 00:37:08,870 So you're placed in this position where you're gonna have to respond whether you 612 00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:12,950 want to or not. But the other thing I guess that is very important is, 613 00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:17,110 is this thing about, you know, the, the, uh, chemistry of organizations. 614 00:37:17,890 --> 00:37:18,230 You know, 615 00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:21,150 when you live together and you're in positions where you're gonna die together, 616 00:37:22,060 --> 00:37:25,600 then it takes on a completely different dimension. You know, 617 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,120 you will see people rise to the occasion that you would never expected. 618 00:37:30,070 --> 00:37:33,320 That will do heroic things that just astound people. 619 00:37:34,530 --> 00:37:38,110 And a lot of it's because of, of the, the, the love that's been created 620 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:44,550 with these people. I dunno how to explain it, you know, the way, but that, 621 00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:47,670 I mean, they just have grown the way they love each other. 622 00:37:48,490 --> 00:37:49,323 Family. 623 00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:52,070 Yeah. Because of that love and that family, you know, they, 624 00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:57,230 they defend each other, I mean, unto the death. And so that's kind of, 625 00:37:57,650 --> 00:38:01,190 that's the way it happens. I mean, that's, that's just the way it is now. 626 00:38:01,210 --> 00:38:04,350 Nobody takes any great pride in any of that. I can tell you that right now. 627 00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:09,190 I don't think any of these kids really want to go to war. It's a romantic, uh, 628 00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:12,470 fantasy that some people have that's just misplaced. 629 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,780 And anybody that's there who's ever seen it, 630 00:38:16,290 --> 00:38:18,820 doesn't want anything to do with it. Again, 631 00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:21,020 I think it all starts with a soldier's training, 632 00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:26,460 what you teach them from day one about how to be a soldier and what's expected 633 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:27,313 of them, 634 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,620 and how you expect 'em to be a part of the army or the Navy Air Force Marines, 635 00:38:31,730 --> 00:38:32,580 that applies to all. 636 00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:37,260 What are your thoughts around when folks go home, 637 00:38:37,370 --> 00:38:42,340 when they've served their tours and their duties and they're left 638 00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:44,350 a, 639 00:38:44,350 --> 00:38:48,340 being an adrenaline junkie in some cases after everything they've experienced, 640 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,380 and b being separated from, as you put it, 641 00:38:53,490 --> 00:38:57,700 that that unit, that bond that I don't think other people can quite grasp. 642 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,820 That's a whole other level of bonding when you're in a live or die situation 643 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,180 and all the things that happen when you take them out of that scenario and put 644 00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:10,380 them back into the quote unquote real world. 645 00:39:12,010 --> 00:39:15,140 What are your thoughts around that and, and the care for people? 646 00:39:15,350 --> 00:39:19,780 Cause I know there's a lot of pre-care getting them prepared to go into those 647 00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:24,100 situations, but then the deconstruction of it all after the fact. 648 00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:27,380 I think that, uh, well, first of all, I'd like to say that, uh, 649 00:39:27,380 --> 00:39:31,140 the military's done a very good job over the last, I'd say 20 years, 650 00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:32,573 I guess you would say. 651 00:39:33,340 --> 00:39:37,660 Constructing a system that is very supportive of the soldiers, sailors, airmen, 652 00:39:37,660 --> 00:39:41,820 marines, much more so than Vietnam or World War II or World War I, 653 00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:45,020 I mean, you know, if you historically go back and look at it, you can, 654 00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:49,290 you can almost really, uh, correlate the, 655 00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:50,520 uh, 656 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,410 results that have occurred based upon the government's care for their soldiers 657 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,930 when they come back from combat. You look at World War I, 658 00:39:58,790 --> 00:40:03,370 and the trauma was incredible in that war, but those kids that came back, 659 00:40:03,370 --> 00:40:04,410 or the people that came back, 660 00:40:04,650 --> 00:40:08,130 a lot of 'em were the results of the roaring twenties. 661 00:40:09,150 --> 00:40:13,630 There were no jobs. Uh, they had skills that, you know, 662 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,270 can't be applied anywhere else other than potentially in criminal enterprise. 663 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,790 Right? Pushed a lot of them into that, where they could use those skills. 664 00:40:22,490 --> 00:40:25,710 And because of that, you had challenges. Uh, 665 00:40:25,710 --> 00:40:28,910 you had people that were homeless and, you know, 666 00:40:29,580 --> 00:40:32,910 just in bad conditions because they had no systems to help them. 667 00:40:34,050 --> 00:40:38,210 I think in World War ii, they improved that somewhat. Vietnam wasn't as good, 668 00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:39,210 Korea wasn't as good, 669 00:40:40,190 --> 00:40:43,130 and I'm not really sure we understood what was going on with some of these 670 00:40:43,370 --> 00:40:47,690 soldiers. We didn't understand post-traumatic stress like we do, or T b i, 671 00:40:47,690 --> 00:40:49,930 like we do today. So I think our, 672 00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:54,410 our system is designed to better help the soldiers, sailors, airmen, 673 00:40:54,410 --> 00:40:57,930 and Marines recover from these challenges that are faced from combat trauma. 674 00:40:58,590 --> 00:41:01,970 And everybody that has been in combat has some form of trauma. 675 00:41:02,530 --> 00:41:04,890 I don't care what they say. All right, 676 00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:09,290 everybody's got some form of P T S D or some 677 00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:14,890 behavioral change to their normal activities, uh, 678 00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:16,610 because of these events. 679 00:41:17,710 --> 00:41:21,450 And I think that we've helped our soldiers, 680 00:41:21,710 --> 00:41:23,050 at least from what I've seen, 681 00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:28,410 understand that it's not bad to 682 00:41:28,780 --> 00:41:33,340 understand that you have this type of trauma and to bring it to someone's 683 00:41:33,340 --> 00:41:37,580 attention to help you if you need to get through it. Uh, I think though, 684 00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:41,140 there were some times when there was a heavy medication being pro given to some 685 00:41:41,140 --> 00:41:44,820 of these kids that wasn't good. You know, a chemical solution was the problem. 686 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,700 And then because of that, other programs were developed in the civil community, 687 00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:54,860 which helped them beyond a pharmaceutical solution. 688 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,340 You know, whether they were horse ranches or, you know, 689 00:41:58,820 --> 00:42:02,580 recovery centers or things that help them, you know, 690 00:42:02,580 --> 00:42:05,660 bridge this trauma they had and kind of get back to normalcy. 691 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,860 But we're not o not not that, 692 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,580 not as successful as we would tell ourselves to be. 693 00:42:11,740 --> 00:42:16,500 Although we had programs in place, we got incredible amounts of suicides, uh, 694 00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:19,290 from soldiers. I mean, they were just, I, 695 00:42:19,330 --> 00:42:21,890 I don't even think the public understands, you know, 696 00:42:21,890 --> 00:42:26,610 one time we were losing like 60 to a hundred kids a day, I mean, from suicide, 697 00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:31,570 and of course that's gone down significantly. But still, the point is, 698 00:42:32,110 --> 00:42:34,450 is that these events are, 699 00:42:34,510 --> 00:42:38,550 are traumatic and it's, it's, 700 00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:43,510 it's hard to manage 'em all. I think, I mean, it's difficult. You know, again, 701 00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:46,910 this kind of goes back to when I look at these politicians that can easily 702 00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:51,600 decide, we're gonna go do these things. But the second, 703 00:42:51,730 --> 00:42:55,280 third, and fourth order effects that are after this, 704 00:42:55,580 --> 00:42:59,680 the cost of the war is not just the bullets and the beans, alright? 705 00:42:59,740 --> 00:43:03,280 And transportation and materials and recovery materials. 706 00:43:03,630 --> 00:43:08,160 It's that third and fourth order effect that occurs years after veterans 707 00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:12,080 return and all of the things we have to do to take care of that. 708 00:43:12,220 --> 00:43:14,040 So the costs are enormous. 709 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:20,040 I just don't think that politicians really understand the true cost of the 710 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,080 decisions that they make. I mean, if it was up to me, 711 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,560 it wouldn't be fighting in any wars. Okay. Some are, you have no choice. 712 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,460 But in many cases, you know, we, 713 00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,100 we go just about everywhere to help everybody do everything. 714 00:43:33,780 --> 00:43:35,700 I think we need to pay attention to that. Yeah. 715 00:43:35,970 --> 00:43:38,420 What does it mean to be a general, what is, uh, 716 00:43:38,490 --> 00:43:40,940 what is the activities of a general entail? 717 00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:43,060 Well, first of all, I think we have too many generals. 718 00:43:43,060 --> 00:43:47,630 That's the first thing I tell you at large. And the reason I say that is, 719 00:43:47,650 --> 00:43:52,320 is I've seen the number of generals proliferated, like nothing I've ever seen. 720 00:43:53,340 --> 00:43:57,880 And to me, it has an impact on decision making at lower levels. Uh, 721 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,200 lieutenant colonels and colonels, when I was growing up, captains majors, 722 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,720 Lieutenant colonels made decisions that some of these generals are making today. 723 00:44:05,380 --> 00:44:06,920 But cause of the risk quotient, 724 00:44:07,170 --> 00:44:11,000 these things get pushed up so that they don't have to make the decisions. 725 00:44:11,020 --> 00:44:13,600 And they know that these guys will have to make the decisions, 726 00:44:14,260 --> 00:44:16,240 and they're making the decisions, which are really, 727 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,640 decisions could be made at these levels. So more generals, you have the, 728 00:44:21,390 --> 00:44:22,770 you know, your challenges to, 729 00:44:23,350 --> 00:44:27,490 to young leaders making risk decisions changes significantly. 730 00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:31,300 The quotient changes significantly. So being a general, 731 00:44:31,870 --> 00:44:35,060 being a general is like being a brand new private in the army at a different 732 00:44:35,060 --> 00:44:39,900 level. Yeah, I mean, when you become brigadier general, you , 733 00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:43,610 you know, the lowest general that there is. And of course, 734 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,530 there's a lot of jobs for those good brigadier that the other guys don't 735 00:44:48,530 --> 00:44:50,810 want to do. So we end up doing a lot of the, 736 00:44:51,090 --> 00:44:55,890 a lot of the heavy lifting as brigadier and major generals. The other guys, 737 00:44:55,890 --> 00:44:56,210 you know, 738 00:44:56,210 --> 00:44:59,290 one of the things that people don't understand is brigadier and major generals, 739 00:44:59,620 --> 00:45:02,530 major generals is the last competitive rank in the Army. 740 00:45:03,220 --> 00:45:07,890 Lieutenant General and General are positions that are nominated 741 00:45:07,890 --> 00:45:12,130 before Congress. So to receive those positions, 742 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,370 your nomination has to make it through Congress before you can have the 743 00:45:16,490 --> 00:45:21,150 position. So they're not necessarily, uh, 744 00:45:21,390 --> 00:45:26,030 positions that are decided upon by a board of officers like you do for a major 745 00:45:26,030 --> 00:45:27,150 general and a brigadier general. 746 00:45:27,570 --> 00:45:30,110 But that seems screwed up. That's just the whole point. 747 00:45:30,110 --> 00:45:34,870 It's like keeping politics out of the military. And yet that's the final level. 748 00:45:35,940 --> 00:45:38,790 Well, that's kind of the way it works. Now, I don't, 749 00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:43,510 I can't blame that completely on politicians because the military decides who 750 00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:44,630 those nominees are, 751 00:45:45,790 --> 00:45:49,010 and the Congress gets to decide whether or not they agree those guys are the 752 00:45:49,010 --> 00:45:52,690 right guys. Uh, I don't necessarily agree that Congress should do that, 753 00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:54,810 but that's, that's the way the system's set up. 754 00:45:55,170 --> 00:45:56,570 I think if they'd leave it to the military, 755 00:45:56,570 --> 00:45:59,530 they'd make good decisions and they'd pick the right people to do the jobs that 756 00:45:59,530 --> 00:46:01,130 need to be done. I mean, 757 00:46:01,130 --> 00:46:04,960 they know the people better than the Cong congressman do, but you know, 758 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,920 anybody today can make a complaint against somebody to Congress and his 759 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,250 nomination get held up and doesn't get promoted. And, you know, he's done, 760 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,200 he's done for his career. So it's, it's, it's kinda screwy, 761 00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:19,000 but it is the system that we live in. 762 00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:24,270 Hmm. So what do you do as a retired person now? What is your, 763 00:46:24,380 --> 00:46:28,030 it's the thing that makes you happy and how two questions, 764 00:46:28,050 --> 00:46:32,150 not happy that, and also how do you deal with the, 765 00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:34,790 everything that you've seen over the course of your career? 766 00:46:36,570 --> 00:46:39,590 Uh, well, first of all, the thing that I enjoy doing the most, 767 00:46:39,870 --> 00:46:44,140 spending time with my wife and my grandkids, uh, spending my time with my wife, 768 00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:47,900 who's my best friend. And, uh, I love dearly. I'm, 769 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,660 I'm just blessed beyond measure. 770 00:46:49,660 --> 00:46:54,180 Having just had a wonderful wife the last 37 years that, uh, 771 00:46:54,180 --> 00:46:55,260 helped me raise my kids. 772 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,500 And I can think of nothing I'd rather do than spend time with her. 773 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:03,340 So that's number one thing. Uh, my grandkids, which I, I love to be around, 774 00:47:03,370 --> 00:47:06,380 they're great. We've got three beautiful grandchildren. 775 00:47:06,410 --> 00:47:10,940 Just had one here yesterday that just came in from New Jersey and spent a couple 776 00:47:10,940 --> 00:47:14,980 of days with us. Uh, my other two grandchildren live here and I see them, 777 00:47:15,180 --> 00:47:16,580 I see one of my grandkids every weekend, 778 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,540 the other one about every other weekend. 779 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,140 So we try to get together as much as possible. And then my dogs, 780 00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:23,860 other than that, you know, 781 00:47:23,860 --> 00:47:27,780 if I can do my exercise and spend time with my wife just enjoying life now, 782 00:47:27,780 --> 00:47:29,380 that's, that's all I care to do. 783 00:47:29,710 --> 00:47:30,660 How'd you meet Your wife? 784 00:47:31,210 --> 00:47:33,460 Just happened to be one of those times, you know, when you, 785 00:47:34,350 --> 00:47:37,530 you ask yourself a question, am I gonna go out tonight or not? You know? 786 00:47:38,030 --> 00:47:41,690 And I decided one night I was gonna go out and I went to a restaurant and uh, 787 00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:44,730 you know, I'm just telling it like it is. 788 00:47:44,730 --> 00:47:47,890 I walked through the door and I saw her and I said, wow, that's her right there. 789 00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:53,650 . So that's where it happened. Oh, we worked with each other and, uh, 790 00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:55,370 we've been together ever since. 791 00:47:56,130 --> 00:47:57,990 What's the secret to a long marriage? 792 00:47:59,370 --> 00:48:02,270 Oh, well, you know, it's, it's work. I mean, marriage is work. I mean, 793 00:48:02,770 --> 00:48:04,030 I'm not saying it's bad work, 794 00:48:04,090 --> 00:48:07,870 I'm just saying that you have to work together to make marriage successful. 795 00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:11,270 I think someone, I heard this, someone say this a long time ago, you know, 796 00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:15,510 never go to bed without telling your wife you love her and resolve any issues 797 00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:17,910 that you might have before you go to bed. You know, 798 00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:20,990 it's kind of one of the things that's one of our rules. We're churchgoers. 799 00:48:20,990 --> 00:48:25,550 So we know we participated in church together since we've been married. Married, 800 00:48:25,550 --> 00:48:30,470 uh, she's a great singer and a great, uh, pianist. And we've enjoyed, you know, 801 00:48:30,770 --> 00:48:34,470 our worship together and living our lives growing through that. 802 00:48:35,650 --> 00:48:38,630 Uh, God has played a significant part in our life. We're Christians, 803 00:48:38,690 --> 00:48:42,950 so that's one thing. We're talented of others though. So we're not, 804 00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:46,950 we're not ones that condemn others for their beliefs. We just, 805 00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:50,470 we believe that through our examples of life to others, 806 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,670 makes what we believe acceptable to them as we believe what they believe is 807 00:48:54,670 --> 00:48:58,110 acceptable to us and them. Anyway. So that's kind of one of the, 808 00:48:58,410 --> 00:49:01,190 one of the things that's, uh, prime motivator for us. 809 00:49:01,330 --> 00:49:05,910 And then we believe in giving to others. When I say that I believe, you know, 810 00:49:06,070 --> 00:49:07,310 tithing is something that we do, 811 00:49:07,410 --> 00:49:09,830 but the tithing is focused for us and our family. 812 00:49:10,530 --> 00:49:13,470 10% of our income goes towards tithing every month, 813 00:49:14,410 --> 00:49:17,990 and that's focused on helping those who need help. I mean, actually, 814 00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:21,190 I get more joy out of that than probably anything. Giving to me is, 815 00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:25,030 is one of the aspects of life that's not appreciated as much as I think it 816 00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:28,070 should be. I get more outta giving than anything I could ever get. 817 00:49:28,530 --> 00:49:32,150 I'd rather not get anything and give and not get anything, period. 818 00:49:32,590 --> 00:49:34,110 I get more outta that than anything in life. 819 00:49:34,890 --> 00:49:36,630 It keeps you, it keeps the world's, 820 00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:41,790 it keeps you from centering too much on oneself. I think it, yeah, 821 00:49:41,790 --> 00:49:45,670 when you see the world as, again, 822 00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:48,150 it's a being of service. When you're of service to the world, 823 00:49:48,290 --> 00:49:52,270 you don't have as much time to focus on your own stuff, 824 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:53,630 keeps you outta your head. 825 00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:58,180 But it helps you recognize how fortunate you are and you know, 826 00:49:58,180 --> 00:50:00,860 how you should give to others because they're not as fortunate. 827 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,740 And cuz they're not as fortunate doesn't make 'em any, uh, 828 00:50:03,740 --> 00:50:06,860 less of a human being. It's just important for us to recognize that. 829 00:50:07,380 --> 00:50:10,620 I think if we would give more and we would be more tolerant to understanding of 830 00:50:10,620 --> 00:50:14,260 other people's dilemmas and, you know, show a little bit more compassion to 'em, 831 00:50:14,260 --> 00:50:17,980 that we'd probably be better off as a nation period. And to me, 832 00:50:17,980 --> 00:50:20,660 that comes through the, uh, for us Christian principles. 833 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,060 Christ consciousness, I like to call that. 834 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,060 And you don't have to be a Christian to facilitate Christ consciousness. 835 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:28,633 No, you don't. 836 00:50:28,930 --> 00:50:33,900 Yeah. It's a, it's a way of being where your heart sees the world as 837 00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:35,573 worthy of love. 838 00:50:36,170 --> 00:50:38,100 Yeah, exactly. 839 00:50:38,930 --> 00:50:43,380 Yeah. And to the other question, how have you, 840 00:50:43,890 --> 00:50:46,780 over the course of your life dealt with all the things that you've seen? 841 00:50:46,780 --> 00:50:51,140 Because I know that you can't talk about stuff with me 842 00:50:51,250 --> 00:50:56,060 certainly because you've been on some pretty intense things that are none of 843 00:50:56,060 --> 00:51:00,220 anybody's business . But that being said, how do you, 844 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:05,900 how have you processed all of that as you've grown into 845 00:51:06,140 --> 00:51:06,973 yourself? 846 00:51:08,050 --> 00:51:10,420 Well, first of all, I'm not a complainer. That's rule number one. 847 00:51:10,460 --> 00:51:12,700 I don't complain about anything. I don't care how bad it is. 848 00:51:13,140 --> 00:51:16,380 I don't complain about it because there's always somebody that's all wor worse 849 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,580 off than you are. That's, that's number one. But I believe that, um, 850 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,740 you know, anything that happens, no matter how bad it is, 851 00:51:23,740 --> 00:51:28,420 you can turn it into something good and gracious if you just try, you know, 852 00:51:28,420 --> 00:51:30,820 if your attitude is every morning when you get up in the morning, 853 00:51:31,090 --> 00:51:35,340 it's gonna be the greatest day of, of your life and whatever you do, 854 00:51:36,090 --> 00:51:40,180 anytime I have a rule, when I'm around people, uh, 855 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,820 and someone starts talking negative to me about someone else or some 856 00:51:44,820 --> 00:51:49,620 condition, if I can't change the conversation in a minute to two minutes, 857 00:51:49,730 --> 00:51:53,020 I'll walk away from it. And the only reason I say that is I, 858 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,660 I'm not a i I don't like to be around people that are negative energy. 859 00:51:56,100 --> 00:51:58,300 I just think it really brings people down. 860 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,420 And I believe that no matter what happens to you in life, 861 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:06,180 no matter how disadvantaged you might think you are or other people tell you are 862 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,380 you're not. And if you allow that to take root in your soul, 863 00:52:10,770 --> 00:52:14,580 it's gonna affect you for the rest of your life. So everything you're doing, 864 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:15,980 you will work, 865 00:52:15,980 --> 00:52:20,540 work hard at it and know that you are going to be successful. 866 00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:22,980 You are going to be successful. 867 00:52:23,770 --> 00:52:27,150 But if you embrace the negative energy of, of, 868 00:52:27,370 --> 00:52:30,150 of victimhood or, or, you know, I'm, 869 00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:34,150 I should have this because this is where who I am and what's happened to me. 870 00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:38,780 Listen, a lot of bad things happen to people in life. Again, it, 871 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,420 it goes back to what do you do with it when it happens? 872 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:46,660 Are you gonna take it and turn it around or, yes. Uh, Denzel Washington says, 873 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,060 you know, when you fall, fall forward, 874 00:52:49,390 --> 00:52:52,260 don't fall backwards and get up and keep falling forward. 875 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,780 And if you do that in life, you're gonna be okay. And I believe that. 876 00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,740 So I don't, all these things that have happened, 877 00:53:00,010 --> 00:53:04,660 they happen to me or others tenfold to what I've experienced. 878 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:07,180 So I'm not gonna focus on that. 879 00:53:07,370 --> 00:53:11,780 What I'm gonna focus on is how do I make things better for everybody else? 880 00:53:12,740 --> 00:53:13,780 I mean, if, if, 881 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,500 if you can help someone somewhere every day in one way, shape or form, 882 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,820 you're gonna make the world a better place. It's just that simple. 883 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,460 And if you embrace anything else in that, other than that, 884 00:53:25,390 --> 00:53:27,330 it just doesn't work for me. . 885 00:53:28,030 --> 00:53:28,450 You're, 886 00:53:28,450 --> 00:53:33,050 you're lucky because I think a lot of people between depression or P ts d 887 00:53:33,310 --> 00:53:35,810 or whatever they're dealing with in their life, 888 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,570 it's very hard to see past that. 889 00:53:38,910 --> 00:53:43,090 And it's my experience that people 890 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:48,610 will clinging to the past and the worst because they 891 00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:51,170 understand it. They know it. It's, 892 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,330 it's weirdly comforting that even the worst thing can feel familiar and 893 00:53:56,330 --> 00:54:01,050 comforting more than the the terror of moving forward. 894 00:54:01,470 --> 00:54:05,570 And the good thing that might be coming, cuz they don't, you know, 895 00:54:05,570 --> 00:54:08,810 if I don't know what that is, and even if it's the best thing in the world, 896 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,850 it's scary to take that first step toward that thing because all I've known is 897 00:54:13,850 --> 00:54:15,330 this other terrible thing. 898 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,170 Yeah. I'll tell you, I really feel for, for people who are, um, 899 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,970 depressed or have, uh, or commit suicide, you know what I remember, you know, 900 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,810 theologically listening to the recepts of what, uh, 901 00:54:28,810 --> 00:54:33,210 people believed in different sections of Christianity about suicide used to 902 00:54:33,210 --> 00:54:36,370 bother me when I, you know, if you, if you commit suicide, you're going to, 903 00:54:36,370 --> 00:54:40,290 your souls going to hell. And I would hear that and I'd say, wow, man, you know, 904 00:54:40,330 --> 00:54:44,570 I just, just, I don't, I don't get that. I mean, it just doesn't work for me. 905 00:54:45,550 --> 00:54:49,450 And so my greatest compassion for those that ha have gone through this and have 906 00:54:49,450 --> 00:54:53,770 died or haven't died and still have this depression, because to me there's a, 907 00:54:53,770 --> 00:54:58,210 there's a chemical imbalance somewhere in that body or in the mind that is 908 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:03,210 putting them in a position to where they are, where they are. I mean, 909 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,530 like a, like depression or, or suicide, you know, 910 00:55:06,550 --> 00:55:09,450 it takes a brave person to commit suicide. I can never do it. 911 00:55:09,470 --> 00:55:12,250 I'm too big of a chicken. Okay. I just couldn't do it. 912 00:55:13,230 --> 00:55:17,400 But when you recognize that and you see what they've done, 913 00:55:18,140 --> 00:55:19,840 you just go, my God, I mean, 914 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,080 it had to be so bad that it put 'em in that position to do that. 915 00:55:24,740 --> 00:55:27,880 So to me it's, it's a, it's a heartbreaking thing for me to, 916 00:55:28,650 --> 00:55:32,790 to see people who commit suicide in their families or those who are in deep 917 00:55:32,790 --> 00:55:37,110 depression because there's something physically wrong with them 918 00:55:37,730 --> 00:55:41,870 that's not corrected or that's gone wrong. And, 919 00:55:42,450 --> 00:55:43,550 you know, the best thing to do, 920 00:55:43,550 --> 00:55:45,790 at least for me when I come in contact with people like this, 921 00:55:45,790 --> 00:55:48,750 is just try to load 'em. I mean, just, you know, 922 00:55:48,940 --> 00:55:53,150 encourage 'em or do whatever you can to help 'em get through it. Now, 923 00:55:54,820 --> 00:55:56,900 I, I have no expertise in any of that. 924 00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,900 All I know is that the way I look at the way I do what I do and hope 925 00:56:01,900 --> 00:56:06,540 that it's successful and just staying focused on positive. I mean, 926 00:56:07,370 --> 00:56:09,020 I've had bad times too. Like others have, 927 00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:10,900 there's a lot of bad things that happened me in my life, 928 00:56:10,900 --> 00:56:13,770 but I'm not looking back at that stuff. I'm just, 929 00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:18,370 I'm moving forward and embracing that for me has been very helpful. 930 00:56:19,110 --> 00:56:22,590 And I can, there's not a thing I can't do. I really believe that. 931 00:56:23,450 --> 00:56:28,420 Yeah, it must be hard to be in a leadership position in, uh, 932 00:56:28,420 --> 00:56:32,100 in a thing like the military when, I mean, look, 933 00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:35,660 there are mistakes made in any career, in any place, 934 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,060 by any person at any given time. That's just the facts. 935 00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,980 And I do think that the military, 936 00:56:42,980 --> 00:56:46,980 there's an expectation that somehow it has to be infallible, 937 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,620 but that's just not realistic. And, 938 00:56:50,460 --> 00:56:53,000 and it falls upon the leadership, of course, 939 00:56:54,620 --> 00:56:56,080 to bear the brunt of that. 940 00:56:57,980 --> 00:57:00,030 Well, you know, that's, that, that's the, 941 00:57:00,030 --> 00:57:01,630 that's the part of leadership that's tough. 942 00:57:01,630 --> 00:57:04,150 But that's part of leadership that you accept when you become a leader. 943 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,750 Leadership, it's lonely at the top, trust me. I mean, you know, it's, uh, 944 00:57:08,750 --> 00:57:11,990 you don't have anybody else to talk to, but you have to understand that, 945 00:57:12,450 --> 00:57:16,870 you know, you're sharing your misgivings or complaining to those below, 946 00:57:16,870 --> 00:57:19,750 you only aggravates the conditions that they have to deal with. 947 00:57:20,930 --> 00:57:24,710 So a lot of times you have to absorb that and hang onto it and deal with it 948 00:57:24,910 --> 00:57:26,510 yourself, and it becomes lonely. 949 00:57:26,570 --> 00:57:28,270 And it can make you feel like you're on an island. 950 00:57:28,300 --> 00:57:31,350 Sometimes you gotta work your way through it. I mean, 951 00:57:31,350 --> 00:57:33,630 you just can't let it take charge. Because if you do, 952 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,970 everything you do as a leader affects everybody below you. I mean, 953 00:57:38,010 --> 00:57:40,370 I can remember when the war first started, we were losing, 954 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,520 sold a lot of soldiers, and I had to bury 'em. I mean, 955 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,000 I buried probably 35 or 40 soldiers in my time as a commander. 956 00:57:47,660 --> 00:57:49,600 And I personally went to every one of their funerals, 957 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,840 and I gave the flag to the families, and it took a piece in my heart every time. 958 00:57:54,060 --> 00:57:56,080 It was probably the most difficult thing I'd ever done. 959 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:02,310 But the thing I couldn't do for the soldiers that were in the field 960 00:58:02,540 --> 00:58:06,790 when they embraced this was to, uh, embrace it with them. 961 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,640 I couldn't embrace it with them the way they wanted me to, because, you know, 962 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:16,610 you gotta keep them focused because it's a detriment to them if they 963 00:58:16,810 --> 00:58:20,970 fallen into this pity trap. Because if they do that and they, 964 00:58:20,990 --> 00:58:22,090 and they get depressed, 965 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,530 then it's gonna affect every other soldier around 'em the decisions that they're 966 00:58:25,530 --> 00:58:26,350 making. 967 00:58:26,350 --> 00:58:29,530 So you gotta keep 'em focused on moving forward and doing what they're doing. 968 00:58:29,530 --> 00:58:34,330 Because if you don't, it could, it could be catastrophic. Mm. I mean, 969 00:58:34,730 --> 00:58:37,130 I remember one of my young colonels called me in the field, 970 00:58:37,150 --> 00:58:39,610 and he just lost one of the soldiers and was the middle of the night. 971 00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:42,970 He was really upset about it. And, uh, you know, 972 00:58:42,970 --> 00:58:47,290 he was rationalizing his mind what the kid could have done different and how 973 00:58:47,290 --> 00:58:51,090 they could have run the operation different. I just told him, stop. I said, 974 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:55,050 look, I said, you gotta get ahold of yourself here. I said, here's the thing. 975 00:58:55,690 --> 00:59:00,210 I said, this is gonna happen again. It's not gonna be the only one. I said, 976 00:59:00,210 --> 00:59:02,770 this is a deadly business we're in. I said, 977 00:59:02,830 --> 00:59:06,760 but they have to look to you for their strength. I said, if they, 978 00:59:06,860 --> 00:59:08,360 if they don't see that strength in you, 979 00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:13,160 it's gonna infect your entire organization, and they're gonna be hesitant. 980 00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:15,920 They're gonna be tentative, they're not gonna be aggressive, 981 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:20,040 they're not gonna fight. Well, you've gotta, you gotta really understand that. 982 00:59:20,420 --> 00:59:22,340 And he got it. It, and he moved on from it. 983 00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,340 But it was at one point where he was just at that low air where he could have 984 00:59:26,340 --> 00:59:29,860 just gone over the cliff and started, oh my God, you know, 985 00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:32,500 that's just killing me. And crying in front of his guys. 986 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,540 And they're all thinking, well, he doesn't have control. And I mean, you gotta, 987 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,260 you gotta deal with it. So anyway, he, he dealt with it. He dealt with it well, 988 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:41,753 but as a leader, 989 00:59:42,290 --> 00:59:46,660 it's your job to make sure that it doesn't go over the cliff. 990 00:59:47,630 --> 00:59:52,120 That you're there to tell him, wait a minute, snap out of it. Okay, look, 991 00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:54,350 it's gonna happen again. 992 00:59:54,970 --> 00:59:59,550 You gotta get a handle on it right now and don't let it take you down. 993 01:00:00,130 --> 01:00:02,910 Now, you know, this guy was like a young son to me. But I mean, 994 01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:04,950 still the point is, you know, 995 01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:08,230 hard love sometimes is something you gotta give into those conditions. That's, 996 01:00:08,490 --> 01:00:09,550 that's the way I handle it. 997 01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:12,710 I don't wanna take up too much more of your time, but I do have a question. 998 01:00:13,220 --> 01:00:16,630 Sure. Regarding the age of internet and the, 999 01:00:16,690 --> 01:00:21,230 the idea that AI is getting more and more sentient, uh, 1000 01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:24,190 more and more capable of acting of its own accord, 1001 01:00:24,730 --> 01:00:29,430 we all like to think that Isaac OVS rules apply, but who knows? 1002 01:00:30,090 --> 01:00:35,030 How do you see the, how do you see AI shaping the future of the military? 1003 01:00:36,860 --> 01:00:37,550 Well, I see, 1004 01:00:37,550 --> 01:00:40,390 I see the battlefield being much different than it's ever been before in 1005 01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:42,460 history. Um, you know, 1006 01:00:42,460 --> 01:00:45,260 a lot of things that we have out there today that I think are antiquated and, 1007 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,220 and we'll see in the next five to 10 years that are just, you know, 1008 01:00:49,220 --> 01:00:52,620 because of lethality and te technology, uh, 1009 01:00:52,620 --> 01:00:57,100 it's gonna change like tanks and aircraft carriers, I think they're obsolete. 1010 01:00:57,980 --> 01:01:00,820 I mean, we can use 'em right now, but in the next four to five years, 1011 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:06,060 you're gonna see they're big targets in the ocean that when they hit, 1012 01:01:06,570 --> 01:01:10,100 they cost billions of dollars, use thousand lose thousands of lives. 1013 01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,660 And because of technology and the speed of technology, uh, 1014 01:01:14,660 --> 01:01:16,620 you're gonna be able to destroy 'em. I mean, 1015 01:01:16,620 --> 01:01:20,420 we're already seeing on the battlefield today because of Lobo munitions and the 1016 01:01:20,420 --> 01:01:22,700 ability to penetrate tanks. You can kill tanks. 1017 01:01:22,700 --> 01:01:23,980 Like you can never kill 'em before. 1018 01:01:25,060 --> 01:01:28,240 So these forms of technology on the battlefield are gonna have to change. 1019 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,480 I mean, I envision a battlefield of the future is, uh, automated, 1020 01:01:32,770 --> 01:01:36,840 autonomous, and extremely lethal. As an example, you know, 1021 01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,240 this trench warfare that's going on in Ukraine and Russia right now, 1022 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,440 where they're in these trenches fighting, here's a trench, here's a trench, 1023 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,880 and they're shooting and maneuvering, trying to get in the trench clear. Em. 1024 01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,440 I think that, uh, as an example, and this is all hypothetical, uh, 1025 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,520 you're gonna have these little balls or omelets, 1026 01:01:53,790 --> 01:01:56,480 they're gonna have biometrics integrated into 'em, 1027 01:01:56,750 --> 01:01:58,280 have their own propulsion systems. 1028 01:01:58,380 --> 01:02:00,480 You can drop 'em out of an airplane by hundreds. 1029 01:02:00,750 --> 01:02:05,280 They'll hit the ground and they'll roll across the battlefield at 150 to 1030 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:09,000 75 miles an hour, and they'll look for human, 1031 01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:11,160 human signature and they'll go kill it. 1032 01:02:12,460 --> 01:02:16,370 Where before you had to maneuver as a soldier and get 'em in your sight and 1033 01:02:16,370 --> 01:02:21,140 shoot 'em. And, you know, well, when that happens, they become so lethal that, 1034 01:02:21,140 --> 01:02:24,540 you know, when do the humans get on the battlefield? 1035 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,310 Cause it will change the dynamic significantly. And, you know, for me, 1036 01:02:30,850 --> 01:02:34,030 you know, I think that's gonna, it's gonna change a lot for us. 1037 01:02:34,770 --> 01:02:39,660 And because of that, things will change. I mean, significantly. 1038 01:02:40,330 --> 01:02:44,850 You know, the real question is, is, uh, how will future wars be fought? Uh, 1039 01:02:44,850 --> 01:02:49,410 will it be AI against ai? Uh, and AI is many tentacles. I mean, 1040 01:02:49,410 --> 01:02:52,610 it'll be many different places. You know, how does, uh, uh, 1041 01:02:52,610 --> 01:02:56,770 what happens in information wise if the information that is feeding AI is 1042 01:02:56,890 --> 01:03:01,530 corrupted? And what if people, I mean, it's like the internet today, you know, 1043 01:03:01,530 --> 01:03:04,530 people, like we said before in critical thinking, they pull an article up, 1044 01:03:04,530 --> 01:03:07,970 they read it, and they just believe it because it's in their ideological base. 1045 01:03:08,940 --> 01:03:11,200 Where with ai, you know, 1046 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:15,280 you can influence mobs and groups and people just boom like that. 1047 01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,620 And it will have thought about the, the primary, 1048 01:03:19,690 --> 01:03:24,260 secondary and tertiary effects before even the human can think about it and 1049 01:03:24,260 --> 01:03:28,660 adjust to those automatically to create the dilemmas that, you know, 1050 01:03:28,660 --> 01:03:32,420 could be used by an enemy that uses AI against us or us using it against them. 1051 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,780 Uh, I'm, I'm like the creators of ai. I'm very, 1052 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,780 I'm very fearful of what will come with AI if we don't have some type of, 1053 01:03:40,300 --> 01:03:44,820 I guess you would say, um, ethical control over it. I see it also having, 1054 01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,380 you know, great benefits for us in many areas as it relates to labor. 1055 01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:51,530 But that presents another problem. 1056 01:03:51,930 --> 01:03:55,490 I don't know if it's called universal salary for people that, you know, 1057 01:03:55,490 --> 01:03:59,730 you just get a salary, uh, to maintain a standard of living. Well, 1058 01:03:59,870 --> 01:04:03,370 AI will eliminate so many jobs that you have to create some type of system that 1059 01:04:03,370 --> 01:04:07,090 allows 'em to have sustenance and survive. So, you know, there's, 1060 01:04:07,090 --> 01:04:11,850 there's many undetermined things that can occur because of AI and warfare 1061 01:04:12,590 --> 01:04:17,130 and society and media and personal engagements. 1062 01:04:18,130 --> 01:04:20,330 I mean, the thing that bothers me too is, uh, 1063 01:04:20,330 --> 01:04:25,090 the authenticity of what is presented in a visual fashion to people today 1064 01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:29,050 because of the sophistication of AI and deep. 1065 01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:31,930 Fake kind of videography. All that stuff is. 1066 01:04:32,270 --> 01:04:37,010 Pgi stuff like that. Yeah. That can, you know, really fake it is, 1067 01:04:37,110 --> 01:04:38,770 is what people believe or don't believe. 1068 01:04:40,060 --> 01:04:42,880 And so we've got some significant challenges. I mean. 1069 01:04:43,340 --> 01:04:44,400 And they're coming up fast. 1070 01:04:44,860 --> 01:04:47,920 And they're coming up fast. You know, again, I, 1071 01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,770 I really have great faith in, in, in humanity, period. Uh, I believe that, 1072 01:04:54,190 --> 01:04:56,770 you know, good responsible people are gonna do the right things. 1073 01:04:56,770 --> 01:05:00,970 There'll be bad people that do bad things. They've been with us forever. But I, 1074 01:05:01,130 --> 01:05:06,090 I just believe in humanity and I believe that, uh, that we will step forward. 1075 01:05:06,190 --> 01:05:10,650 We will figure out how to manage this and manage it properly and do the best 1076 01:05:10,650 --> 01:05:13,290 that we can with it. We're gonna have, we're gonna have challenges with it. 1077 01:05:13,290 --> 01:05:16,330 Like anything else, it's just like life. But. 1078 01:05:16,330 --> 01:05:21,020 Well, I think about the idea of AI getting us to the point of, as you said, 1079 01:05:21,020 --> 01:05:23,540 if everything is automated, will there be become, will, 1080 01:05:24,170 --> 01:05:27,420 will people make a leap to realize that? It's ridiculous. 1081 01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:31,220 And it takes me back to the movie war games where the program said, 1082 01:05:31,850 --> 01:05:36,060 strange game, the only logical way to win is just not to play. 1083 01:05:37,410 --> 01:05:41,500 Well, you know, I'll tell you like, like when I talk about, uh, 1084 01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:44,500 future warfare and the o and the locality of warfare, 1085 01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:49,140 it will be too expensive to have human life on the battlefield because it just, 1086 01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:49,980 it won't, 1087 01:05:49,980 --> 01:05:54,220 it won't be able to survive against the machines that'll be out there on the 1088 01:05:54,220 --> 01:05:58,260 systems that'll be out there. Mm. But you know, then, you know, 1089 01:05:58,260 --> 01:06:02,940 how do we protect, how do we, how do we defend? You know? How do you do that? 1090 01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:03,873 I'm not sure. 1091 01:06:04,300 --> 01:06:06,100 I, I met a guy on a plane, uh, 1092 01:06:06,100 --> 01:06:09,940 a couple weeks ago who I hope will come on the show who's, uh, lieutenant, 1093 01:06:10,550 --> 01:06:14,100 who's a lieutenant colonel in Space Force. Mm-hmm. . And I thought, 1094 01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,100 oh, when we run out of people to fight on this planet , 1095 01:06:17,350 --> 01:06:19,220 we're gonna try going outward. 1096 01:06:20,810 --> 01:06:23,340 Well, you know, the concept I think actually for space, 1097 01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,900 at least from Elon Musk's perspective, is, uh, 1098 01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,940 the continuation of humanity in the event of a cataclysmic event, 1099 01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,420 or I guess you would say, uh, I'm not a life altering event. 1100 01:06:33,540 --> 01:06:37,380 I can't remember the term that he used, but it was an extinction event. 1101 01:06:37,900 --> 01:06:42,180 I think he looks at Mars as being a great place for water rights also. 1102 01:06:42,690 --> 01:06:46,300 It's possible. But also believe that, you know, if there is an extinction event, 1103 01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,980 uh, for humanity to survive, it has to have a place to go. 1104 01:06:50,650 --> 01:06:51,120 Sure. 1105 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,660 To have a place to be. So there's a possibility that, you know, 1106 01:06:53,660 --> 01:06:57,180 there is some prudence of that or validity to it. I don't know. 1107 01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:58,220 All I'm doing is. 1108 01:06:58,220 --> 01:07:00,900 And who knows, there could have been a cataclysmic event on Mars. 1109 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:05,060 And the transpa theory that we are actually descended from those people is a fun 1110 01:07:05,060 --> 01:07:06,940 one to think about too. But it'll be. 1111 01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:09,780 Interesting when they get there to look at the geology, to see what's there. 1112 01:07:09,780 --> 01:07:13,420 Because some of the pictures I've seen been pretty compelling that something was 1113 01:07:13,420 --> 01:07:14,253 there. 1114 01:07:14,340 --> 01:07:18,780 Absolutely. It could have been at one time a hospitable place. It's fascinating. 1115 01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:24,340 You have probably in the capacity of all the different 1116 01:07:24,340 --> 01:07:29,140 aspects of you going along in your military life and in your home life too. 1117 01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,660 But you've been a father to thousands of people. 1118 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,540 You know, when I was, again, in the military, the, 1119 01:07:35,540 --> 01:07:38,580 one of the things I guess I enjoyed the most was the young people. I loved them. 1120 01:07:38,620 --> 01:07:41,020 I mean, they were like, my family. I just love these kids. I mean, 1121 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,900 and I look at it and really believe this with all my heart that, I mean, 1122 01:07:44,900 --> 01:07:47,780 it's about our sons and daughters. I mean, I used to think all the time, 1123 01:07:47,780 --> 01:07:49,060 every kid that I dealt with, 1124 01:07:49,700 --> 01:07:52,620 I would just pray that somebody would deal with my kids the same way, 1125 01:07:52,940 --> 01:07:56,540 regardless of whether we were in the military or if they were somewhere and, 1126 01:07:56,540 --> 01:08:00,980 you know, they needed help that you'd be there for 'em. And, and honestly, 1127 01:08:00,980 --> 01:08:03,900 that's the way I looked at every kid. I mean, it didn't matter to me. Race, 1128 01:08:03,900 --> 01:08:07,700 color, Crete, I didn't care. I didn't care. I loved each and every one of them, 1129 01:08:07,700 --> 01:08:11,260 just like they were my own kids. And cause of that, I mean, 1130 01:08:11,260 --> 01:08:14,580 I've got a lot of these young kids that I still see today or gimme calls and 1131 01:08:14,850 --> 01:08:16,940 it's like being a teacher in school. You know, 1132 01:08:17,370 --> 01:08:20,940 guys call their teacher and tell 'em thank you for what they've done for 'em. 1133 01:08:20,940 --> 01:08:22,740 And I get a lot of kids that do that to me. And I'll tell you, 1134 01:08:22,740 --> 01:08:26,420 it's the greatest reward in life. But, you know, to me it's, it's really, 1135 01:08:26,420 --> 01:08:29,300 whether it's in the military or out here with your own personal family, 1136 01:08:29,570 --> 01:08:34,060 it's really family. I mean, if you really look back at it, I mean, 1137 01:08:34,060 --> 01:08:38,730 our whole nation, our whole world is a family. And if we treated it that way, 1138 01:08:38,790 --> 01:08:43,450 you know, we'd, we'd probably be so much better off. But, you know, I just, 1139 01:08:43,610 --> 01:08:46,690 I don't understand why we're heading the way we're heading in many directions 1140 01:08:46,750 --> 01:08:49,530 and what people are thinking and what they're trying to do. 1141 01:08:49,670 --> 01:08:53,270 But we have complicated it more than ever. 1142 01:08:53,490 --> 01:08:54,790 But we've created these, 1143 01:08:55,060 --> 01:08:59,190 just these hatred divisions that just to me 1144 01:09:00,210 --> 01:09:03,670 are terrible. I, I mean, I can't stand them. You know, 1145 01:09:03,690 --> 01:09:06,190 one of the things I see with the people that are in politics, 1146 01:09:06,190 --> 01:09:08,910 politics really bother me. They drive me crazy when I look out. 1147 01:09:09,310 --> 01:09:11,790 I almost don't watch the news at all. I do a lot of reading. 1148 01:09:12,350 --> 01:09:15,950 I read more than I do anything. I just don't watch TV that much anymore. 1149 01:09:16,380 --> 01:09:20,230 Only because it's just poisonous in many areas. I like good entertainment, 1150 01:09:20,260 --> 01:09:23,630 like movies or things like that. But, uh, I prefer to read, I mean, 1151 01:09:23,630 --> 01:09:28,140 I love to read. I like to read old books. I mean, um, you know, 1152 01:09:28,140 --> 01:09:31,380 one of my favorites is Carl Sandberg's edition of Abraham Lincoln, 1153 01:09:31,380 --> 01:09:32,820 which is a five volume set, 1154 01:09:33,270 --> 01:09:38,220 which is very rich in information that we just don't get anywhere 1155 01:09:38,220 --> 01:09:42,700 else anymore. I mean, reading to me is everything cuz I love it. I mean, 1156 01:09:42,700 --> 01:09:45,660 I probably read a book or two a week only because it just, 1157 01:09:47,490 --> 01:09:49,250 I mean, you just can't get the, 1158 01:09:49,350 --> 01:09:51,930 the wealth of that type of information from media. 1159 01:09:52,850 --> 01:09:56,690 I agree with you a hundred percent. I'm a big book person myself. 1160 01:09:56,950 --> 01:10:00,770 So Yeah. I so appreciate your time. 1161 01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,890 This has been a really interesting conversation. Well. 1162 01:10:03,890 --> 01:10:05,770 Susan, listen, anything you need in the future, 1163 01:10:05,830 --> 01:10:09,170 if you need help on anything or you wanna talk about anything or you need 1164 01:10:09,170 --> 01:10:12,610 another podcast, give me a call and we'll be friends forever. I mean, 1165 01:10:12,610 --> 01:10:15,530 I won't see you much, but you know, we're, we're friends for life. Okay. 1166 01:10:15,890 --> 01:10:20,090 I appreciate that. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for listening everybody. Bye. 1167 01:10:20,670 --> 01:10:22,010 God bless you. Bye-Bye Bye. 1168 01:10:23,590 --> 01:10:24,890 Please rate reviews. 1169 01:10:25,290 --> 01:10:29,930 Subscribe to hey podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. 1170 01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:30,610 Bye.