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Join us as we gather around the hedge,

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where we dig into technology, business, and culture

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with the finest minds in computer networking.

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Well, hello, Audrey.

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Nice to see you.

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Audrey says hello. I can't bring myself to

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do a high pitched,

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feminine voice.

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And hello, Tom.

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Hi, Russ.

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Second time for the day?

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Yep. Yeah. Here we are. Two two recordings

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in one day. I don't know. And now

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we are joined by Doug Dawson,

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who if you've never read his blog, pots

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and pans, you ought to be reading his

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blog. I'm just gonna say that upfront. I

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read his blog regularly. You see me cross

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post his stuff on my on rule 11.

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And I don't know. He's just a a

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great source of information.

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He's been in the industry for as long

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as I have,

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which I'm you know, he's got more white

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in his beard than I do. So there

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you go.

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So how are you, Doug? You are in

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you're Nashville. Right? I'm doing well. Yes. I

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live in Asheville, North Carolina. So we've been

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here for eight, nine years now. So yep.

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Okay. Cool.

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Old telco head.

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Old telco head. They used to own telephone

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companies. I mean, I'm as telco head as

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they come. Yes. So I I actually started

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out when telephone companies use steppers mechanical switches.

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So Stroggers. Right? Stroggers. Yes, indeed. Yes. Oh,

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yes. So here's the thing. Right? When I

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was in the air force, the the United

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States military is notorious for having all this

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advanced technology. Well, there's another entire side to

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that that once something's installed, it's never removed.

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Right. So so for instance, I worked on

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the navy's network for a while on FleetNet,

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and they were like, oh, yeah. We still

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have bay routers.

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I'm like, bay has been out of business

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for five years. Yeah. We don't care. We

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still use them. They're still there. So at

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Maguire Air Force Base, we had stroger. We

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had a 12,000

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line stroger frame

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with stepper switches.

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And it was it was so old.

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And and those things ran forever.

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They did. They never broke. They never broke.

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Yeah. That was it was insane.

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So, anyway, alright. So we are talking about

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we're gonna start with five g hype because

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that's the right place to start. Right? So

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talk to us about, like,

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the transition

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from four g to five g

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and what that was all about

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and how, like, we ended up at four

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and a half g, basically, because five g

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never really we never really worked. So talk

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to us about that a little bit.

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Yeah. So this takes you back now about

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ten, twelve years. So about ten, twelve years

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ago,

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you couldn't go to anywhere in the industry

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and not hear about the, the the the

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five g war or the five g,

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fight with China. Right? So we were in

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a race with China for five g. And

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they never did explain why that mattered that

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we won, but it was very, very important

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that we won that race.

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And and and what that was it turns

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out that after it was all said and

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done,

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that was a strategy that the three big

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carriers

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adopted

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because that was their way to get the

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public behind giving them more spectrum for five

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g. And they and they needed it. Four

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g was in trouble. Four g networks were

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bogging down. They were really not in good

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shape. People were literally getting blocked calls.

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And certain times of the day, it was

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just getting terrible. And but rather than just

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go and make the the you know, go

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in and say, we need more spectrum,

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they created this crisis, which was a completely

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fake crisis.

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Because there never was a race with China

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because and there's no race. We'll get to

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the six g race today. There's no race

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today because there's only really three major vendors

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of this equipment, and they all do the

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same thing.

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You know, whatever the Chinese company does, the

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the, you know, the the European companies do

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the same thing. The technology doesn't get very

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far ahead in either place, and the whole

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world gets it. Everybody can buy it. So

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so, you know, there's no such thing as

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a race, but but we had this tremendous

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race. I mean, it got so crazy. You

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probably remember this because you're one of the

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companies. The I mean, the White House had

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serious conversations

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about buying

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Nokia or Ericsson

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because that way, The United States would own

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a a five g company. I mean, they

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talked about buying lock, stock, and barrel and

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buying the company to make an American company.

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And they were serious about it. They actually

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investigated it until everyone laughed them to death.

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But but that's how but that's how crazy

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the this hype was. It just it was

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and you just couldn't go to an industry

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forum. That's all anybody wanted to talk about.

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How are we doing with this five g

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race?

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Well, part of the race was they made

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these incredible claims about what five g would

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do. And

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and even today, I think we were just

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talking before the show. We're only at today

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at at four and a half g anyhow.

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We never really made it to full five

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g. And and and so, you know, a

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lot of the things that they promised us

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during that time period still have never come.

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But but we actually over performed on some

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of it. So, you know, for regular cellular

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spectrum, they told us that we would get

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the networks up to a 100 or maybe

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even a little bit more megabits per second.

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Well, they've outperformed that one by a mountain.

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I just did AT and T just upgraded

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my spectrum

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in this town from the stuff they just

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bought from EchoStar,

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and I went from a 115 megabits down

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to 381

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megabits down in in three days. It's like,

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woah. Because I've been watching to see when

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they were gonna do the upgrade. And, like,

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all of a sudden,

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that's way they never promised that much bandwidth

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on those spectrum bands.

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But they but but they all but they

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did claim up to 10 gig speeds,

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knowing they've known their wave spectrum. They're like,

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yeah. And and and you gotta and if

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if you remember, if you watch sports

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ten, eleven years ago,

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every single sports event had ads from Verizon

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where they held up a cell phone and

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it showed one gigabit speeds on the cell

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phone. You have to remember those if if

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you were a sports fan. Can you hear

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me now? Yeah. I can yeah. Remember that?

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And those were and those were millimeter, and

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they were real networks. They're still there today,

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but but I think I read that that

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those networks carry about a half a percent

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of all of Verizon's traffic. So but they

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are still there in downtowns of, like, Denver

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and places like that still have these little

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networks.

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But but it turns out that that's a

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really crappy spectrum for day to day

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to day to use of cell phones. So

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it just bombed. It's just it doesn't go

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through anything. It bound it doesn't bounce around

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things very well. And so so that, you

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know, that just turned out to be a

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giant bus. So we didn't get our gigabit

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speeds,

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but we did get way, way faster. So

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they've actually outperformed on one of the key

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things. But everything else, they've fallen down on.

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Remember, they were going to,

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you know, they were gonna use network slicing

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to really stretch the spectrum. That was their

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actually biggest thing that they said we were

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gonna do. They were gonna go, if you

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only wanna do a little thing, we're gonna

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give you a fifteenth of a channel so

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that you just get amount of spectrum that

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you need. And if you wanna do something

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really big, we wanna get you on and

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off the network quickly. We're gonna combine all

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sorts of different frequencies, and we're even gonna

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go grab stuff from another cell tower next

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door. And we're gonna give you this giant

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pipe. So instead of being on for ten

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seconds, you're gonna be on for a third

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of a second, and that's gonna keep our

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salt sites free. Well, they never did any

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of that. You know? And and that was

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their number one claim of how they were

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gonna do this. They all they also,

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they also talked about, Russ' favorite, beamforming. Beamforming.

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Beamforming.

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They were gonna they were gonna take the

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cell tower that looks all directions, and they

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were gonna beam right at you as as

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somehow as you're walking or moving in a

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car or whatever, and they were gonna make

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sure that you got your spectrum by beamforming

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so that it didn't get stray. That way,

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they could they could do 20 different beams

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using the same spectrum at the same time.

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But they never made that work either.

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They were also

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then they were also going to,

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yeah. So so none of those things ever

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happened. None of them. They've they've happened in

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there's a little tiny bit of spectrum slicing

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that's been introduced here and there, and not

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very much, but a little bit. And they've

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played around with beamforming, but nothing that ever

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worked. And and I don't think they've ever

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played around with combining signals from multiple cell

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towers. I'd never I don't remember seeing anybody

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trying that one.

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The other thing they promised was we were

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gonna do small cells everywhere.

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Phantom cells. Oh, yeah. Everywhere. We were gonna

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have millions and millions and millions. That way,

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that would protect the cell network because everybody

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would be using the cell tower that's a

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block and a half from their house instead

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of the big ones are gonna be obsolete.

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They weren't even gonna need the big ones

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anymore because there was gonna be one in

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your neighborhood. So then when they brought the

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backbone to that one, man, you would have

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all the spectrum you would ever need. Right?

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Well, they they didn't even build a fiftieth

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of what they promised because they the the

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the economics caught up to them and they

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went, boy, these things are expensive, and that's

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an awful lot of backhaul.

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Yeah. So they just they just never got

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a a Femtocell. I had a Femtocell in

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my house because I couldn't get near a

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tower. And, like, so, yeah, I had a

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Femtocell, but I paid for it. AT and

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T didn't. Yes. But and they but these

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were gonna be pole mounted small cell sites

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that could handle a thousand customers, and they

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were gonna be literally everywhere.

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And they so they were so that, you

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know, that's so that just very quietly went

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away.

264
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,100
I think today,

265
00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,799
last time I saw, I think there's 400,000

266
00:09:30,799 --> 00:09:33,040
small cells, but that's a very deceptive number

267
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:33,540
because

268
00:09:34,815 --> 00:09:36,975
75 to 80% of those cells are on

269
00:09:36,975 --> 00:09:38,654
top of buildings and they beam down inside

270
00:09:38,654 --> 00:09:41,615
of office buildings and malls. So they call

271
00:09:41,615 --> 00:09:43,375
those small cells. They're not. They're they're a

272
00:09:43,375 --> 00:09:45,134
bunch of night repeaters is what they are.

273
00:09:45,134 --> 00:09:48,110
Right? So So I I remember this. I

274
00:09:48,110 --> 00:09:50,029
was at the time, I was working for

275
00:09:50,029 --> 00:09:52,029
an eyeball network that owned a ton of

276
00:09:52,029 --> 00:09:54,669
fiber. And just as it was sort of

277
00:09:54,669 --> 00:09:56,669
the the height the crest of this hype

278
00:09:56,669 --> 00:09:59,230
wave. And I just remember the meetings and

279
00:09:59,230 --> 00:10:01,095
people were talking about we are sitting on

280
00:10:01,174 --> 00:10:02,954
a gold mine. We are gonna be rich.

281
00:10:03,174 --> 00:10:05,174
We are gonna you know? And then none

282
00:10:05,174 --> 00:10:07,254
of it. None of it. Well, no. A

283
00:10:07,254 --> 00:10:09,334
a companies like American Tower went out, and

284
00:10:09,334 --> 00:10:11,115
they gobbled up all these resources

285
00:10:11,495 --> 00:10:13,589
to support the small cells. They actually went

286
00:10:13,589 --> 00:10:14,950
out and built a bunch of them. They

287
00:10:14,950 --> 00:10:17,589
they grabbed they grabbed backbone fiber routes through

288
00:10:17,589 --> 00:10:19,190
all these cities because they were gonna make

289
00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:21,990
a fortune on selling the backhaul to Verizon

290
00:10:21,990 --> 00:10:23,829
and AT and T. Boy, that was a

291
00:10:23,829 --> 00:10:26,964
busted business plan too. So everyone who everyone

292
00:10:26,964 --> 00:10:28,884
who bet on that one lost their shirt.

293
00:10:28,884 --> 00:10:30,884
So, you know, it just it just never

294
00:10:30,884 --> 00:10:33,384
happened. You know, they also promised really

295
00:10:33,845 --> 00:10:36,024
super low latency, like four megasecond

296
00:10:36,644 --> 00:10:39,110
milliseconds, if you remember that. They never got

297
00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:41,590
anywhere close to that number. And and that

298
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:43,690
one is one of my favorites because

299
00:10:44,149 --> 00:10:46,149
one of the biggest things that they touted

300
00:10:46,149 --> 00:10:48,470
that five g would do is it would

301
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:51,190
be faster than fiber from a latency perspective,

302
00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:52,490
which would allow you to

303
00:10:52,835 --> 00:10:54,774
really do real time stock trading.

304
00:10:55,394 --> 00:10:57,394
It's like, I can do pretty real time

305
00:10:57,394 --> 00:10:58,855
stock trading on fiber.

306
00:11:00,355 --> 00:11:02,835
Or gaming or gaming was Or and gaming,

307
00:11:02,835 --> 00:11:04,995
they said. Or gaming. Oh, yeah. Everyone was

308
00:11:04,995 --> 00:11:07,139
gonna game on their cell phone because that's

309
00:11:07,220 --> 00:11:10,019
that's gonna be the absolute fastest connection. Of

310
00:11:10,019 --> 00:11:12,100
course, you we need it to we also

311
00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:13,379
need it to fire, you know, the one

312
00:11:13,379 --> 00:11:15,220
gig connections for that to work, which didn't

313
00:11:15,220 --> 00:11:17,379
come. So that that would fall apart. But

314
00:11:17,540 --> 00:11:19,299
and then finally, I think the oh, yeah.

315
00:11:19,299 --> 00:11:20,964
Go ahead. Sorry. The other the other hype

316
00:11:20,964 --> 00:11:22,644
piece that I remember over and over was,

317
00:11:22,884 --> 00:11:24,404
remote surgery. I don't know why that stuck

318
00:11:24,404 --> 00:11:26,245
with Oh, yeah. But, like, we're gonna be

319
00:11:26,245 --> 00:11:28,084
able to operate on people across the world

320
00:11:28,084 --> 00:11:30,164
because of this and yeah. And and there's

321
00:11:30,164 --> 00:11:32,004
no doctor in his right mind that would

322
00:11:32,004 --> 00:11:34,049
ever do that because of the insurance problems.

323
00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:37,009
You know? It's it's like, wait. If if

324
00:11:37,009 --> 00:11:37,509
broadband

325
00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:39,649
goes out in the middle of this operation,

326
00:11:39,649 --> 00:11:41,169
the patient dies and I get my ass.

327
00:11:41,169 --> 00:11:42,929
So it's like, I don't think we're gonna

328
00:11:42,929 --> 00:11:43,909
wanna do that.

329
00:11:46,225 --> 00:11:48,225
You know, final the final really big claim

330
00:11:48,225 --> 00:11:49,205
they had was

331
00:11:49,745 --> 00:11:51,825
they can connect an immense number of people

332
00:11:51,825 --> 00:11:53,024
to a cell site at the same time.

333
00:11:53,024 --> 00:11:55,024
Remember that? I mean, they were just gonna

334
00:11:55,024 --> 00:11:56,865
be able to I don't know. Forty, fifty

335
00:11:56,865 --> 00:11:58,889
thousand people to a cell site. And and

336
00:11:58,889 --> 00:12:01,049
that that's way beyond what and they didn't

337
00:12:01,049 --> 00:12:03,690
really they increased that one maybe 40%.

338
00:12:03,690 --> 00:12:06,089
They're bigger now, but they're not massively bigger

339
00:12:06,089 --> 00:12:08,649
now. So so all those things that they

340
00:12:08,649 --> 00:12:09,709
promised to do,

341
00:12:10,649 --> 00:12:12,190
just didn't come to pass.

342
00:12:13,214 --> 00:12:15,774
Now at the same time, what really came

343
00:12:15,774 --> 00:12:17,714
into play was not their hype

344
00:12:18,254 --> 00:12:20,414
because the other hype they had was economic

345
00:12:20,414 --> 00:12:21,855
hype. How are they gonna pay for all

346
00:12:21,855 --> 00:12:25,154
this stuff? Now this this didn't get spouted

347
00:12:25,214 --> 00:12:27,309
in public, but it gots. But this is

348
00:12:27,309 --> 00:12:29,149
what they told investors. If you went to

349
00:12:29,149 --> 00:12:29,970
all the cordially,

350
00:12:30,909 --> 00:12:32,750
announcements for them. So here's what they said

351
00:12:32,750 --> 00:12:34,450
they were gonna do with five g.

352
00:12:34,829 --> 00:12:36,370
You know, they first they said,

353
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:39,089
businesses are gonna adopt private

354
00:12:39,754 --> 00:12:41,695
five g networks like crazy,

355
00:12:42,154 --> 00:12:44,575
and that's gonna surpass residential revenues.

356
00:12:45,195 --> 00:12:47,835
So so all these businesses were gonna do

357
00:12:47,914 --> 00:12:50,475
all their own employees and customers were gonna

358
00:12:50,475 --> 00:12:52,315
get on private networks. They were gonna put

359
00:12:52,315 --> 00:12:53,455
five g in factories.

360
00:12:54,209 --> 00:12:56,370
The five g was just gonna rule the

361
00:12:56,370 --> 00:12:57,269
business world,

362
00:12:57,649 --> 00:13:00,049
and and that didn't even come in. They

363
00:13:00,049 --> 00:13:02,049
didn't they didn't accomplish a hundredth of that

364
00:13:02,049 --> 00:13:02,549
claim.

365
00:13:02,929 --> 00:13:04,850
Yeah. There was there were big yeah. There

366
00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:07,445
were big things about how we'll never need

367
00:13:07,445 --> 00:13:09,045
Ethernet. In fact, there are a lot of

368
00:13:09,045 --> 00:13:10,504
factories that were built

369
00:13:10,965 --> 00:13:12,745
that never were were wired

370
00:13:13,445 --> 00:13:16,165
for CAT five or CAT six because Because

371
00:13:16,165 --> 00:13:18,085
they knew this was coming. Yeah. That's right.

372
00:13:18,085 --> 00:13:19,384
Five g is coming.

373
00:13:19,764 --> 00:13:21,225
Yeah. Right. Okay. Now

374
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:23,190
this was such a rare thing that I

375
00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:25,190
think it was about two years ago. John

376
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:25,690
Deere

377
00:13:26,149 --> 00:13:26,649
rewired

378
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:29,429
about eight or 10 of their factories in

379
00:13:29,429 --> 00:13:31,990
Illinois for five g and also with Wi

380
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:33,269
Fi at the same time, and they did

381
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:34,649
get rid of a lot of the wiring.

382
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:36,889
And and that was such big news because

383
00:13:37,304 --> 00:13:38,904
I at the time when that was announced,

384
00:13:38,904 --> 00:13:40,184
I looked it up and there was maybe

385
00:13:40,184 --> 00:13:42,024
10 factories in the world who had done

386
00:13:42,024 --> 00:13:44,585
that. So instead of instead of being a

387
00:13:44,585 --> 00:13:46,345
massive business and and they and they did

388
00:13:46,345 --> 00:13:48,504
it all themselves. Like, they didn't even use

389
00:13:48,504 --> 00:13:49,784
the big carriers to do it, which I

390
00:13:49,784 --> 00:13:51,485
found really amusing. So

391
00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:54,980
so but but that that was supposed

392
00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:56,339
to be larger

393
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,759
than customer subscription revenue. The next thing they

394
00:13:59,759 --> 00:14:01,940
said was they're gonna pay for all this

395
00:14:02,319 --> 00:14:02,819
because

396
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,459
they first off, they were gonna do IoT,

397
00:14:05,985 --> 00:14:08,304
you know, Internet of things. Oh my goodness.

398
00:14:08,304 --> 00:14:09,904
The IoT You were gonna have five you

399
00:14:09,904 --> 00:14:11,504
were gonna have five g in your washing

400
00:14:11,504 --> 00:14:12,725
machine, in your refrigerator.

401
00:14:13,745 --> 00:14:16,144
Every car was gonna have a monthly $10

402
00:14:16,144 --> 00:14:18,304
five g subscription. I mean, they were gonna

403
00:14:18,304 --> 00:14:20,644
make so much money off of recurring subscriptions,

404
00:14:21,659 --> 00:14:23,179
and so that was really what they were

405
00:14:23,179 --> 00:14:25,259
counting on. And it turns out that Wi

406
00:14:25,259 --> 00:14:27,820
Fi won that war a 100%. I mean,

407
00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:29,820
nobody has a subscription for those kind of

408
00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:32,379
things. You know, I mean, even cars. You

409
00:14:32,379 --> 00:14:34,379
know, I have two cars that communicate with

410
00:14:34,379 --> 00:14:35,839
my house when you pull in the driveway.

411
00:14:36,404 --> 00:14:37,605
The first day we bought them, we gave

412
00:14:37,605 --> 00:14:39,284
them the Wi Fi password. It dumps whatever

413
00:14:39,284 --> 00:14:41,125
the heck they dump, and and it's done.

414
00:14:41,125 --> 00:14:42,964
They don't need five g to do that.

415
00:14:42,964 --> 00:14:45,125
So but they but everybody was gonna have

416
00:14:45,125 --> 00:14:45,865
these subscriptions.

417
00:14:47,125 --> 00:14:49,049
They also thought everybody would pay extra for

418
00:14:49,049 --> 00:14:51,129
the speeds. It turned out nobody was willing

419
00:14:51,129 --> 00:14:52,889
to pay extra for the speeds, and they're

420
00:14:52,889 --> 00:14:54,570
still not willing today to pay extra for

421
00:14:54,570 --> 00:14:56,909
the speeds. Everyone's I'm very impressed

422
00:14:57,210 --> 00:14:58,490
to get 381

423
00:14:58,490 --> 00:15:00,649
megabits on my phone. Would I pay extra

424
00:15:00,649 --> 00:15:02,865
for that? No. I don't I don't really

425
00:15:03,024 --> 00:15:04,865
I'm impressed that it's that fast. I don't

426
00:15:04,865 --> 00:15:06,725
care that it's that fast.

427
00:15:07,585 --> 00:15:09,985
You know? So, so that you know? So

428
00:15:09,985 --> 00:15:12,085
it there was just nothing there. Finally,

429
00:15:12,545 --> 00:15:15,585
they were gonna they were absolutely positive that

430
00:15:15,585 --> 00:15:17,910
there were gonna be killer apps of some

431
00:15:18,210 --> 00:15:20,129
sort, that five g was gonna be so

432
00:15:20,129 --> 00:15:22,790
unique. And they talked about the AR glasses,

433
00:15:22,929 --> 00:15:24,850
you know, the the the Google Glass and

434
00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:26,690
all those crazy glasses people were. They talked

435
00:15:26,690 --> 00:15:29,410
about virtual reality, and none of those things

436
00:15:29,410 --> 00:15:30,710
ever came to pass.

437
00:15:31,165 --> 00:15:32,524
And if they did, they were gonna work

438
00:15:32,524 --> 00:15:34,605
on Wi Fi and not five g. And

439
00:15:34,605 --> 00:15:38,125
so, you know, so so almost everything they

440
00:15:38,125 --> 00:15:40,065
promised about five g failed.

441
00:15:40,684 --> 00:15:42,924
Really, the only thing that they did right

442
00:15:42,924 --> 00:15:44,924
was they got regular old day to day

443
00:15:44,924 --> 00:15:47,569
speeds up a lot faster. But even there,

444
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:49,569
the American vendors

445
00:15:50,509 --> 00:15:51,889
the American carriers

446
00:15:52,269 --> 00:15:54,509
only allocate six or 7% of their total

447
00:15:54,509 --> 00:15:56,269
speed to upload. They put all their speed

448
00:15:56,269 --> 00:15:58,909
on download because they're having this marketing battle

449
00:15:58,909 --> 00:16:01,730
about who has the fastest networks today. Right?

450
00:16:02,084 --> 00:16:03,684
So they all the rest of the world

451
00:16:03,684 --> 00:16:05,605
puts two and three times more of their

452
00:16:05,605 --> 00:16:07,365
bandwidth to upload. So you still can't use

453
00:16:07,365 --> 00:16:09,684
your cell phone for any of those advanced

454
00:16:09,684 --> 00:16:11,845
apps that require two way communications because you

455
00:16:11,845 --> 00:16:13,524
don't have very much upload on your cell

456
00:16:13,524 --> 00:16:15,365
phone. I mean, I have three eighty one

457
00:16:15,365 --> 00:16:17,320
down. I have 11 up. It's like, that's

458
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:17,820
ridiculous.

459
00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:21,080
That's 3% of the bandwidth allocation is going

460
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,139
up. Right? So,

461
00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:25,019
so, you know, that and it tests consistently

462
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,799
at that very small small level. So so,

463
00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:29,674
you know, they just they overpromised

464
00:16:30,215 --> 00:16:31,195
massively underperformed

465
00:16:31,735 --> 00:16:34,294
except for regular day to day speeds. Everything

466
00:16:34,294 --> 00:16:37,014
else they promised never came to pass. Or

467
00:16:37,014 --> 00:16:37,914
it came to pass

468
00:16:38,215 --> 00:16:39,355
in such a diminished

469
00:16:39,735 --> 00:16:41,975
nature that it didn't make any mark any

470
00:16:41,975 --> 00:16:42,475
difference.

471
00:16:42,929 --> 00:16:45,090
And boy, did the heads roll. I mean,

472
00:16:45,090 --> 00:16:47,169
a couple years into five g, all the

473
00:16:47,169 --> 00:16:49,169
execs in that part of those companies were

474
00:16:49,169 --> 00:16:51,250
all gone because they you know, their business

475
00:16:51,250 --> 00:16:54,210
plans just died. And so, you know, there

476
00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:55,809
was a real clean out of of the

477
00:16:55,809 --> 00:16:57,794
executives at the cell companies from

478
00:16:58,195 --> 00:16:59,714
who had promised all the stuff that they

479
00:16:59,714 --> 00:17:01,334
were gonna be performing on.

480
00:17:01,634 --> 00:17:02,115
So

481
00:17:02,914 --> 00:17:05,315
and finally, what they they finally found their

482
00:17:05,315 --> 00:17:07,494
use for five g, which is FWA

483
00:17:07,875 --> 00:17:09,174
wireless home Internet.

484
00:17:09,875 --> 00:17:10,615
That was

485
00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:12,980
twelve years ago. There was not even one

486
00:17:12,980 --> 00:17:15,059
mention of that. I looked. In all of

487
00:17:15,059 --> 00:17:17,460
the press, nobody ever said, let's use five

488
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:19,240
g spectrum to do home Internet.

489
00:17:19,940 --> 00:17:22,099
Nobody made that claim. Nobody thought that was

490
00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:23,700
a good idea. It's still not a good

491
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:26,039
idea. We're using these very valuable

492
00:17:26,605 --> 00:17:29,884
mid range spectrum bands for people's broad home

493
00:17:29,884 --> 00:17:30,384
broadband.

494
00:17:31,164 --> 00:17:33,664
When when most of the places are competing,

495
00:17:34,125 --> 00:17:36,365
there's a there's a wired there's a wired

496
00:17:36,365 --> 00:17:38,944
alternative, which is so much more efficient than

497
00:17:38,970 --> 00:17:39,950
than using Spectrum to do that.

498
00:17:40,809 --> 00:17:42,750
Are they adequate? Do they work? Yes.

499
00:17:43,130 --> 00:17:44,970
People can get one, two hundred megabits and

500
00:17:44,970 --> 00:17:47,289
they're not a bad product. Their their sellers

501
00:17:47,289 --> 00:17:49,289
point is that they're cheap. They're, you know,

502
00:17:49,289 --> 00:17:51,130
you can get them as cheap as $30

503
00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:51,789
a month.

504
00:17:52,089 --> 00:17:54,589
So but but they're just sucking

505
00:17:55,154 --> 00:17:56,775
up all the spectrum,

506
00:17:57,394 --> 00:17:59,715
and that leads to the that leads to

507
00:17:59,715 --> 00:18:01,875
the six g hype. Well, before you go

508
00:18:01,875 --> 00:18:04,195
there even Yes. The other the other thing

509
00:18:04,195 --> 00:18:05,015
is that

510
00:18:05,634 --> 00:18:07,394
when they did when even when you do

511
00:18:07,394 --> 00:18:07,894
FWA,

512
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,039
one thing that no one counted on was

513
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:11,539
LEO,

514
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,380
and that is actually a result of beamforming.

515
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,660
Right? That's actually because somebody got beamforming

516
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:22,099
to work. It just wasn't the cell people.

517
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,595
So yeah. So, you know, before when you

518
00:18:25,595 --> 00:18:26,414
had GeoSync,

519
00:18:26,794 --> 00:18:29,355
the satellite was so high and the delay

520
00:18:29,355 --> 00:18:31,434
was so long and the jitter was so

521
00:18:31,434 --> 00:18:31,934
bad.

522
00:18:32,234 --> 00:18:34,714
You just really, like, don't even bother with

523
00:18:34,714 --> 00:18:37,210
this stuff, right, for anything for anything near

524
00:18:37,210 --> 00:18:40,190
real time at all. But now with LEO,

525
00:18:40,730 --> 00:18:43,369
it's not that much worse than your local

526
00:18:43,369 --> 00:18:44,430
cell phone tower.

527
00:18:44,890 --> 00:18:47,069
And so it's kind of eaten the FWA

528
00:18:47,369 --> 00:18:49,815
space as well. Well, and and look out

529
00:18:49,815 --> 00:18:51,174
ten years from now, it's gonna kill the

530
00:18:51,174 --> 00:18:53,494
FWA space because they're gonna blow them away

531
00:18:53,494 --> 00:18:56,315
in speed. Yeah. The next generation of satellites

532
00:18:56,375 --> 00:18:58,775
is gonna be way more powerful. And so

533
00:18:58,775 --> 00:19:01,335
they're not gonna be delivering 90 megabits anymore.

534
00:19:01,335 --> 00:19:04,154
They're gonna be delivering five, six hundred gigabit.

535
00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:06,650
And when they get laser working in space,

536
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:09,029
oh, it's even gonna be better for delay

537
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:11,130
and and jitter than what we have today.

538
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:13,429
Yeah. So they're gonna get they're gonna get

539
00:19:13,429 --> 00:19:13,929
their,

540
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:16,710
jitter and and latency way down on the

541
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:18,789
satellites, and they're gonna get their speeds way

542
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:19,289
up.

543
00:19:19,605 --> 00:19:19,765
And,

544
00:19:20,644 --> 00:19:22,884
now as long as there's no competition for

545
00:19:22,884 --> 00:19:24,724
that, if they keep charging a $120

546
00:19:24,724 --> 00:19:26,984
a month, that's their that's their weakness.

547
00:19:27,285 --> 00:19:29,144
But they're gonna bring those prices down

548
00:19:29,525 --> 00:19:31,125
when they really wanted to rule the world

549
00:19:31,125 --> 00:19:32,484
because they're gonna be able to do they

550
00:19:32,484 --> 00:19:34,184
don't and they don't charge a 120

551
00:19:34,369 --> 00:19:37,170
in Africa today. They are they selectively priced

552
00:19:37,170 --> 00:19:39,009
by the company. We pay the full price

553
00:19:39,009 --> 00:19:39,509
here.

554
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:42,130
Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway so so so keep

555
00:19:42,130 --> 00:19:43,890
going to 60. I just wanted to point

556
00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:45,430
out that that was yet another

557
00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:48,630
another factor in the FWA stuff.

558
00:19:49,330 --> 00:19:51,724
So now we're back to the same spot.

559
00:19:51,724 --> 00:19:53,964
So now, you know, we're five years into

560
00:19:53,964 --> 00:19:56,444
five g. These cycles are about ten years

561
00:19:56,444 --> 00:19:58,204
to go from one generation to the next.

562
00:19:58,204 --> 00:20:00,204
So five years from now, we should start

563
00:20:00,204 --> 00:20:02,044
seeing the very first of the six g

564
00:20:02,044 --> 00:20:02,865
stuff. Right?

565
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,519
Now we're starting to see the hype. In

566
00:20:05,519 --> 00:20:07,940
fact, the White House put out a document

567
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,000
two weeks ago that said we have a

568
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,779
six g war with China.

569
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,960
They actually used race. They said we're in

570
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,085
a six g race with China. It's like,

571
00:20:19,085 --> 00:20:21,424
wait a minute. This looks really familiar.

572
00:20:22,205 --> 00:20:23,744
And they didn't explain why,

573
00:20:24,285 --> 00:20:26,525
but but we are in one. I I

574
00:20:26,525 --> 00:20:27,904
have no idea why.

575
00:20:29,724 --> 00:20:30,365
Because we have

576
00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:32,880
overall, this country now has

577
00:20:33,259 --> 00:20:35,180
way better broadband than we did ten, twelve

578
00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:37,980
years ago. Everyone's got every I don't care

579
00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:39,660
what you're on. What was your I'm on

580
00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:42,380
I'm on I'm on the cable company. I

581
00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:44,234
I think at ten years ago, my speeds

582
00:20:44,234 --> 00:20:46,154
were either 30 or 60 megabits, and now

583
00:20:46,154 --> 00:20:47,835
I have a gigabit on my on my

584
00:20:47,835 --> 00:20:50,075
cable company. I mean, we've all got these

585
00:20:50,075 --> 00:20:51,775
giant increases in capability

586
00:20:52,394 --> 00:20:53,914
just over a ten year span. I don't

587
00:20:53,914 --> 00:20:55,914
know why all of a sudden we have

588
00:20:55,914 --> 00:20:58,170
this crisis where we need six g, but

589
00:20:58,250 --> 00:21:00,029
but we're but we've started the hype.

590
00:21:00,890 --> 00:21:02,590
Now again, this hype

591
00:21:03,049 --> 00:21:05,210
is coming for the exact same reason. They

592
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:06,190
want more frequency.

593
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:08,809
But now they don't want it for six

594
00:21:08,809 --> 00:21:10,570
g. They want it they want it for

595
00:21:10,570 --> 00:21:11,070
FWA.

596
00:21:11,744 --> 00:21:14,704
They wanna go get another ten, twenty, 30,000,000

597
00:21:14,704 --> 00:21:16,484
customers on this very lucrative

598
00:21:17,184 --> 00:21:18,704
new product that they have, and they need

599
00:21:18,704 --> 00:21:20,704
a lot of spectrum to do that, which

600
00:21:20,704 --> 00:21:23,184
has nothing to do with with the normal

601
00:21:23,184 --> 00:21:25,265
uses of a wireless network. But that's what

602
00:21:25,265 --> 00:21:27,470
this is all about. The funny thing about

603
00:21:27,470 --> 00:21:28,690
it is they already won.

604
00:21:29,230 --> 00:21:32,190
The FCC already set aside 800 megahertz of

605
00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:33,869
of mid range spectrum that has to go

606
00:21:33,869 --> 00:21:35,309
to auction, and they're gonna have to go

607
00:21:35,309 --> 00:21:38,350
robbing very useful bands that other people already

608
00:21:38,350 --> 00:21:40,355
have. They're gonna have to dip into the

609
00:21:40,355 --> 00:21:42,034
Wi Fi. They're gonna have to dip into

610
00:21:42,034 --> 00:21:42,534
CBRS

611
00:21:42,835 --> 00:21:44,434
just to come up with a 100. And

612
00:21:44,434 --> 00:21:46,115
these are these these are all bad that

613
00:21:46,115 --> 00:21:48,054
they're gonna take some of these things away.

614
00:21:48,274 --> 00:21:49,554
A few of the ones are gonna take

615
00:21:49,554 --> 00:21:51,390
away not so bad. I mean, there's two

616
00:21:51,390 --> 00:21:54,210
different bans assigned to self driving cars,

617
00:21:54,670 --> 00:21:56,590
a failure. We but, you know, go ahead

618
00:21:56,590 --> 00:21:58,590
and get rid of those. Not I don't

619
00:21:58,590 --> 00:22:00,109
know who watches your thing. We might get

620
00:22:00,109 --> 00:22:02,029
a whole bunch of angry emails from folks

621
00:22:02,029 --> 00:22:03,730
who think that's still useful.

622
00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:06,775
But because because because I run into them

623
00:22:06,775 --> 00:22:08,055
once in a while. They're gonna like, no.

624
00:22:08,055 --> 00:22:10,154
We're gonna make that work. Like, no.

625
00:22:10,535 --> 00:22:13,174
We're not because, you know, there's four or

626
00:22:13,174 --> 00:22:15,015
five other technologies that cars could talk to

627
00:22:15,015 --> 00:22:16,955
each other with that don't require spectrum.

628
00:22:17,575 --> 00:22:19,734
So Yes. And and right. And exactly. Even

629
00:22:19,734 --> 00:22:21,434
if they do, they're still LEO.

630
00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:23,519
Even if they do, they're still

631
00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:25,619
Yes. Wi Fi is so

632
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,960
blanketed in urban areas that we don't really

633
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,440
need

634
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:30,359
No.

635
00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:33,039
Set aside spectrum to do it. So what

636
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:35,599
so you're saying they're giving away 800 what

637
00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:38,065
did you say? 800 k or 800 800

638
00:22:38,065 --> 00:22:39,204
megahertz spectrum.

639
00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:41,424
And so Well, they're putting it up for

640
00:22:41,424 --> 00:22:43,105
auction, but the cell companies are gonna win

641
00:22:43,105 --> 00:22:44,625
it all. It's gonna only go to cell

642
00:22:44,625 --> 00:22:46,144
companies because no one else can beat them

643
00:22:46,144 --> 00:22:47,664
at a auction. And so it's being taken

644
00:22:47,664 --> 00:22:48,724
from c CBMRA,

645
00:22:49,105 --> 00:22:51,024
you said. Right? Well, it's taken it's gonna

646
00:22:51,024 --> 00:22:51,765
be taken

647
00:22:52,140 --> 00:22:53,359
between about

648
00:22:53,980 --> 00:22:56,000
900 megahertz and about,

649
00:22:56,619 --> 00:22:57,119
maybe

650
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,180
six and a half gigahertz. So in that

651
00:22:59,180 --> 00:23:01,420
sweet range, which is where cellular is really

652
00:23:01,420 --> 00:23:03,599
good, in that range of spectrum,

653
00:23:03,994 --> 00:23:05,674
the FCC has to come up with 800

654
00:23:05,674 --> 00:23:08,095
megahertz of bandwidth to put up for auction.

655
00:23:08,555 --> 00:23:10,315
Yeah. All of it's already it's already used

656
00:23:10,315 --> 00:23:11,755
for something else to do. I was gonna

657
00:23:11,755 --> 00:23:13,595
say that's gonna actually be hard because that

658
00:23:13,595 --> 00:23:16,339
is Yeah. It's very hard. Yeah. Yes. That's

659
00:23:16,339 --> 00:23:18,980
where everything is. Yes. Yeah. Most radar systems

660
00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:21,799
are at one point o gig, 1.2 gig.

661
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:25,220
Microwave systems are right in that range. Like,

662
00:23:25,220 --> 00:23:27,220
everything is in there. And at the same

663
00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:29,380
time, we're trying to use those spectrums for

664
00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:30,839
more satellite stuff.

665
00:23:31,404 --> 00:23:33,744
You know, they're talking about rating stuff for

666
00:23:34,045 --> 00:23:36,605
for weather satellites. Like, no. Do not rate

667
00:23:36,605 --> 00:23:38,704
the pin with the extra weather satellites.

668
00:23:39,484 --> 00:23:41,005
I I don't I don't know what this

669
00:23:41,005 --> 00:23:42,924
government has against weather satellites, but they seem

670
00:23:42,924 --> 00:23:44,125
to not like them. I know it's like,

671
00:23:44,125 --> 00:23:45,744
no. We gotta like weather satellites.

672
00:23:46,365 --> 00:23:48,200
So I'd also like the radar at my

673
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,039
local airport to work. I think I do

674
00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:51,580
too. I do too.

675
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,519
Very much so. Yeah. So so, you know,

676
00:23:54,519 --> 00:23:56,279
I don't know. They're gonna have a really

677
00:23:56,279 --> 00:23:58,279
hard time finding that because there's none of

678
00:23:58,279 --> 00:24:00,194
this that's not used. But I say that

679
00:24:00,194 --> 00:24:02,434
again. I I I laughed about the one

680
00:24:02,434 --> 00:24:04,355
ban for cars because it's really not being

681
00:24:04,355 --> 00:24:05,794
used. So it's like, yeah. That but that's

682
00:24:05,794 --> 00:24:07,554
only a one tiny little slice of that.

683
00:24:07,554 --> 00:24:10,115
That's I think that's, like, 60 or 80

684
00:24:10,115 --> 00:24:12,035
megahertz. So, you know, so there is some

685
00:24:12,035 --> 00:24:14,170
stuff that they can grab. They're gonna kick

686
00:24:14,170 --> 00:24:15,769
the military off of a bunch of it.

687
00:24:15,769 --> 00:24:17,130
I don't know that I want the military

688
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:18,910
to get kicked off with this stuff either.

689
00:24:19,210 --> 00:24:20,890
It's like we kinda like them to have

690
00:24:20,890 --> 00:24:22,570
stuff that works for them too. So

691
00:24:23,369 --> 00:24:26,009
Right. Are they gonna impact amateur radio? Because

692
00:24:26,009 --> 00:24:27,609
I would think they would. That's a bit

693
00:24:27,609 --> 00:24:29,265
high frequency for for amateur

694
00:24:30,065 --> 00:24:32,464
radio. Yeah. That no. That that's mostly below

695
00:24:32,464 --> 00:24:34,164
that. Yeah. But Yeah. But they

696
00:24:34,704 --> 00:24:36,865
they're but who knows? Because they're gonna move

697
00:24:36,865 --> 00:24:38,785
all these people somewhere else. That's their thing.

698
00:24:38,785 --> 00:24:40,565
Where are they gonna move those other people?

699
00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:42,680
I

700
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:44,599
You know, there

701
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,559
it's mind boggling that they're and and this

702
00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:49,580
was congress now. This wasn't the FCC.

703
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,480
I'm not a giant fan of a lot

704
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,320
of the things the FCC does, but they've

705
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:55,820
always

706
00:24:56,215 --> 00:24:59,015
been pretty decent with spectrum allocation. They listen

707
00:24:59,015 --> 00:25:00,934
to both sides, and they act as a

708
00:25:00,934 --> 00:25:04,055
neutral arbiter, and they've mostly decided most of

709
00:25:04,055 --> 00:25:06,455
their decisions have been good. They've always had

710
00:25:06,455 --> 00:25:08,475
a little bit of physic a bias about

711
00:25:08,740 --> 00:25:11,700
spectrum sharing versus outright licenses and little licenses,

712
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:12,519
big licenses.

713
00:25:12,819 --> 00:25:15,220
But they kinda got the bands right. They

714
00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:16,819
really did over the years. They they have

715
00:25:16,819 --> 00:25:19,539
not done a terrible job of it. And

716
00:25:19,539 --> 00:25:21,220
and what we do isn't sort of in

717
00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:22,579
sync with the rest of the world, which

718
00:25:22,579 --> 00:25:24,285
is kind of important that, you know, that

719
00:25:24,285 --> 00:25:25,424
the gear you buy

720
00:25:25,725 --> 00:25:27,644
from other countries will work here because we

721
00:25:27,644 --> 00:25:29,825
don't really manufacture any of it.

722
00:25:31,725 --> 00:25:33,485
So so Yeah. There's only so much tuning

723
00:25:33,485 --> 00:25:35,085
you could do on a transmitter front end.

724
00:25:35,085 --> 00:25:37,005
Well, now here, we're gonna rearrange all of

725
00:25:37,005 --> 00:25:38,990
our stuff so that Yeah.

726
00:25:39,450 --> 00:25:41,950
This this doesn't make any sense. But but

727
00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:42,570
I

728
00:25:43,609 --> 00:25:45,289
that order came down in the big beautiful

729
00:25:45,289 --> 00:25:47,049
bill, and it's very obvious that AT and

730
00:25:47,049 --> 00:25:49,210
T and those guys got that language inserted

731
00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:50,410
at the last minute. That was a bill

732
00:25:50,410 --> 00:25:52,085
that the people vote on that said they

733
00:25:52,085 --> 00:25:53,525
hadn't read it. I mean, they couldn't have

734
00:25:53,525 --> 00:25:54,805
it. It was, you know, it was this

735
00:25:54,805 --> 00:25:56,884
thick and and and it all got forced

736
00:25:56,884 --> 00:25:58,005
out at the end. So they got this

737
00:25:58,005 --> 00:25:58,904
thing in there.

738
00:25:59,365 --> 00:26:01,125
So they won that battle. But yet they're

739
00:26:01,125 --> 00:26:03,525
still lobbying. It's like, well, you already won.

740
00:26:03,525 --> 00:26:04,965
Why are you still lobbying? They're still lobbying

741
00:26:04,965 --> 00:26:06,509
because I guess they want even more spectrum,

742
00:26:06,589 --> 00:26:08,349
I guess. I don't know. But but we

743
00:26:08,349 --> 00:26:10,369
still have this six g race. So,

744
00:26:11,309 --> 00:26:12,910
so, you know, so it it's it's more

745
00:26:12,910 --> 00:26:14,349
of the same. So we have this hype

746
00:26:14,349 --> 00:26:16,049
starting. It's five years ahead

747
00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:18,589
of the possible first introduction of a six

748
00:26:18,589 --> 00:26:19,329
g technology,

749
00:26:20,109 --> 00:26:20,744
which is,

750
00:26:21,384 --> 00:26:23,384
on its face, a very funny thing to

751
00:26:23,384 --> 00:26:24,125
say because

752
00:26:24,744 --> 00:26:25,724
their first introductions

753
00:26:26,105 --> 00:26:28,184
that they will call six g are gonna

754
00:26:28,184 --> 00:26:29,625
be to try to finish off some of

755
00:26:29,625 --> 00:26:31,224
the stuff from five g that they never

756
00:26:31,224 --> 00:26:32,444
got around to. Right?

757
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:35,279
And but how much of this too is

758
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:38,160
just straight marketing. Right? Just It's all it's

759
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,319
all marketing. Yeah. I need to sell new

760
00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:43,279
phones. Like Yes. You know, everybody has phones

761
00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:45,039
and the the rate at which they're selling

762
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,335
them is slowing down. And and for instance,

763
00:26:47,335 --> 00:26:48,615
the other day, I just bought a new

764
00:26:48,615 --> 00:26:50,615
laptop. Well, a new a new tablet or

765
00:26:50,615 --> 00:26:52,454
whatever. And you can get it with a

766
00:26:52,454 --> 00:26:55,414
five g subscription, but it's $500

767
00:26:55,414 --> 00:26:57,034
extra plus the subscription.

768
00:26:57,974 --> 00:27:00,134
Like, why would I ever do that? Why

769
00:27:00,134 --> 00:27:01,835
would I spend I have Wi Fi.

770
00:27:02,190 --> 00:27:03,970
Why am I doing this to myself?

771
00:27:05,309 --> 00:27:06,750
I mean, where would you have to live

772
00:27:06,750 --> 00:27:08,269
that that would sound like a good idea

773
00:27:08,269 --> 00:27:08,929
to you?

774
00:27:10,990 --> 00:27:12,829
Yeah. I mean, I guess you have to

775
00:27:12,829 --> 00:27:13,329
travel.

776
00:27:14,515 --> 00:27:16,115
Or oh, yeah. Well, that's you know, are

777
00:27:16,115 --> 00:27:17,654
you gonna travel with your tower?

778
00:27:20,115 --> 00:27:21,714
I I I mean, the answer is yeah.

779
00:27:21,714 --> 00:27:23,394
But, I mean, are are you putting that

780
00:27:23,394 --> 00:27:24,914
in the back of the the back of

781
00:27:24,914 --> 00:27:26,994
your SUV and taking it places every week?

782
00:27:26,994 --> 00:27:28,835
I don't know. Yeah. You know, it just

783
00:27:28,835 --> 00:27:29,654
seems crazy.

784
00:27:30,169 --> 00:27:30,909
Yeah. I

785
00:27:31,369 --> 00:27:33,150
I mean, if you work at home

786
00:27:34,169 --> 00:27:36,650
and you absolutely are shut down for making

787
00:27:36,650 --> 00:27:39,230
money when your broadband's down, it's not bad

788
00:27:39,849 --> 00:27:41,779
to have a backup, but I have a

789
00:27:41,779 --> 00:27:42,279
backup

790
00:27:43,054 --> 00:27:44,595
for that. It's called this.

791
00:27:46,015 --> 00:27:48,575
I mean, I know. We had hurricane O'Lane.

792
00:27:48,575 --> 00:27:50,174
I live I worked on my cell phone

793
00:27:50,174 --> 00:27:52,255
for four weeks before the cell towers came

794
00:27:52,255 --> 00:27:54,174
back here. It worked just fine. I mean,

795
00:27:54,174 --> 00:27:56,575
before the brought the the, my my charter

796
00:27:56,575 --> 00:27:58,559
came back. These guys were back up and

797
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:00,400
running in four days, which is a when

798
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,759
you look at where what happened to the

799
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:04,339
towers, this was an amazing job they did.

800
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,679
Now they didn't get all of them up,

801
00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:07,279
but they got the ones up that serve

802
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:09,119
where I live. Some of them took, like,

803
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,444
took almost months to fix. But because some

804
00:28:11,444 --> 00:28:13,365
some places, the roads were gone. It's kinda

805
00:28:13,365 --> 00:28:14,804
hard to fix the cell tower when the

806
00:28:14,804 --> 00:28:17,144
road is gone. But but the point is,

807
00:28:17,284 --> 00:28:18,804
you don't need a you don't need a

808
00:28:18,804 --> 00:28:21,044
computer with that because you always have this.

809
00:28:21,044 --> 00:28:22,724
You always have your cell phone with you.

810
00:28:22,724 --> 00:28:25,089
If if if that $500

811
00:28:25,089 --> 00:28:27,089
and that subscription works, so did your cell

812
00:28:27,089 --> 00:28:27,589
phone.

813
00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:28,869
Yeah. Exactly.

814
00:28:29,569 --> 00:28:30,069
Exactly.

815
00:28:30,529 --> 00:28:32,929
It's a need we don't have. Now here's

816
00:28:32,929 --> 00:28:34,710
the funny thing about all this.

817
00:28:35,329 --> 00:28:36,710
Because you mentioned satellites.

818
00:28:38,035 --> 00:28:39,414
Nobody has been willing

819
00:28:39,875 --> 00:28:43,075
and survey after survey, marketing survey after marketing

820
00:28:43,075 --> 00:28:45,154
survey, nobody's willing to pay extra for the

821
00:28:45,154 --> 00:28:47,575
speed, the latency, none of those things. No.

822
00:28:48,035 --> 00:28:48,755
60%

823
00:28:48,914 --> 00:28:51,474
64% of US households said they would pay

824
00:28:51,474 --> 00:28:51,974
extra

825
00:28:52,330 --> 00:28:53,070
to get satellite

826
00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:55,950
paid or satellite texting.

827
00:28:56,890 --> 00:28:58,490
Now they won't really once they find out

828
00:28:58,490 --> 00:29:00,250
what it cost and how how crappy it

829
00:29:00,250 --> 00:29:02,670
is. But the point is, everybody

830
00:29:03,850 --> 00:29:06,009
runs into places every month where their cell

831
00:29:06,009 --> 00:29:07,605
phone doesn't work. If you if you if

832
00:29:07,605 --> 00:29:09,525
you go anywhere except your house, there's dead

833
00:29:09,525 --> 00:29:10,345
spots. Right?

834
00:29:10,724 --> 00:29:12,884
And so and we're a generation where you

835
00:29:12,884 --> 00:29:14,884
can't wait three minutes, so you I need

836
00:29:14,884 --> 00:29:16,884
to have that satellite. Right? They don't realize

837
00:29:16,884 --> 00:29:18,325
it won't work in your car. It doesn't

838
00:29:18,325 --> 00:29:19,404
work when you're at a house. It's like

839
00:29:19,404 --> 00:29:20,404
you're gonna have to go out in the

840
00:29:20,404 --> 00:29:22,244
backyard in snow to get your tax off,

841
00:29:22,244 --> 00:29:24,380
but, you know, so be it. So it

842
00:29:24,380 --> 00:29:25,839
won't really be 60%,

843
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:28,140
but that's the first thing we've seen in

844
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:29,980
the ten years where somebody well, a whole

845
00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:31,420
lot of people said they're willing to pay

846
00:29:31,420 --> 00:29:33,759
for it. That has way more promise

847
00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:36,220
than all the stuff they've done with the

848
00:29:36,220 --> 00:29:38,505
five g because nobody's paid anything extra

849
00:29:39,944 --> 00:29:42,265
g. Nobody. They never got anybody to give

850
00:29:42,265 --> 00:29:44,065
them extra money every month because the five

851
00:29:44,065 --> 00:29:45,325
g networks are better.

852
00:29:45,944 --> 00:29:47,545
So, you know, that was that's where their

853
00:29:47,545 --> 00:29:49,865
business plan really fell down. In fact, cell

854
00:29:49,865 --> 00:29:52,025
prices have dropped about 30%.

855
00:29:52,025 --> 00:29:53,565
Yeah. People are paying less.

856
00:29:54,220 --> 00:29:55,740
A lot. Quite a bit less. So they've

857
00:29:55,740 --> 00:29:58,159
they've gone the wrong direction instead of up.

858
00:29:58,539 --> 00:30:00,139
Now if they would have gotten every car

859
00:30:00,139 --> 00:30:01,899
to give them a $10 a month subscription,

860
00:30:01,899 --> 00:30:03,579
man, that was a gold mine, but they

861
00:30:03,579 --> 00:30:05,839
didn't. Right? The satellite guys

862
00:30:06,214 --> 00:30:08,455
are gonna do a $3.04, or $5 a

863
00:30:08,455 --> 00:30:10,695
month subscription to be able to text the

864
00:30:10,695 --> 00:30:11,195
satellites,

865
00:30:11,734 --> 00:30:14,134
and and you're gonna use 20 or 30¢

866
00:30:14,134 --> 00:30:16,455
worth. It's almost all profit. They're they're gonna

867
00:30:16,455 --> 00:30:17,755
clean up on that product.

868
00:30:18,910 --> 00:30:20,670
Wow. And young people will all buy it.

869
00:30:20,670 --> 00:30:22,269
You watch. Young people will all do the

870
00:30:22,269 --> 00:30:24,609
$5 add on. Guarantee it.

871
00:30:25,230 --> 00:30:27,630
So Yeah. You know? And that money doesn't

872
00:30:27,630 --> 00:30:29,470
go to the carriers. That money goes to

873
00:30:29,470 --> 00:30:30,609
the satellite guys.

874
00:30:31,605 --> 00:30:32,105
So

875
00:30:33,444 --> 00:30:35,365
I I did. Sat satellite after all these

876
00:30:35,365 --> 00:30:37,125
years, satellite's gonna be the one who found

877
00:30:37,125 --> 00:30:39,525
a way to to to make money off

878
00:30:39,525 --> 00:30:42,025
of this idea. So I think that's hilarious.

879
00:30:43,125 --> 00:30:43,625
Yeah.

880
00:30:44,289 --> 00:30:47,250
Yeah. And because of a technology, the cell

881
00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:49,730
people couldn't get working. Honestly, that's what that's

882
00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:51,190
what even makes it funnier.

883
00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:52,230
It's like,

884
00:30:52,769 --> 00:30:54,930
you tried to do beamforming. You failed. The

885
00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:57,670
satellite people succeeded. Well, it's a different environment.

886
00:30:57,890 --> 00:31:00,204
Right? It's much easier to beam form a

887
00:31:00,285 --> 00:31:01,585
an earthbound antenna

888
00:31:01,964 --> 00:31:04,204
to reach a satellite that's moving in the

889
00:31:04,204 --> 00:31:04,704
sky

890
00:31:05,005 --> 00:31:06,684
than it is to try to beam form

891
00:31:06,684 --> 00:31:08,384
off the cell phone tower

892
00:31:08,765 --> 00:31:11,085
to a cell device that's driving down the

893
00:31:11,085 --> 00:31:13,930
highways 60 miles an hour. Like, those are

894
00:31:13,930 --> 00:31:15,869
completely different classes of problems.

895
00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:17,869
Well, well, they are, but

896
00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:20,890
the satellite one sounds complex to me. Plus,

897
00:31:20,890 --> 00:31:22,090
they don't really beam for them to you.

898
00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:23,289
They kinda beam for them to a whole

899
00:31:23,289 --> 00:31:25,769
pretty large neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. They do. So

900
00:31:25,769 --> 00:31:27,210
they they all they have to kinda hit

901
00:31:27,210 --> 00:31:27,869
your area.

902
00:31:28,170 --> 00:31:28,910
But, you know,

903
00:31:29,365 --> 00:31:32,005
majority of cell phone users are sitting still

904
00:31:32,005 --> 00:31:34,184
in a in one place. They're not moving.

905
00:31:34,804 --> 00:31:37,204
So it's like, okay. So you can't beamform

906
00:31:37,204 --> 00:31:39,464
the cars. Why aren't you beamforming to me?

907
00:31:39,765 --> 00:31:42,099
Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I like, I have,

908
00:31:42,099 --> 00:31:43,220
you know, I have I've been sitting here

909
00:31:43,220 --> 00:31:44,980
at my desk now for three hours. Beamforming

910
00:31:44,980 --> 00:31:46,359
to me. You know where I'm at?

911
00:31:48,419 --> 00:31:49,700
So, you know, so the fact that they

912
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:51,299
can't make that work is they can't make

913
00:31:51,299 --> 00:31:53,059
that work. And the cell tower hasn't moved

914
00:31:53,059 --> 00:31:54,819
now in forty years. I'm pretty sure they

915
00:31:54,819 --> 00:31:55,799
know where that is.

916
00:31:58,664 --> 00:32:01,305
Yeah. It's it's a little bit bad. Yeah.

917
00:32:01,305 --> 00:32:02,825
And it's not like any of that's new

918
00:32:02,825 --> 00:32:05,704
technology. I mean, seriously, beamforming has been around.

919
00:32:05,704 --> 00:32:07,305
I mean, when I was in here been

920
00:32:07,305 --> 00:32:09,480
around thirty years at at least. Yeah. Oh,

921
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,279
yeah. Yeah. It's probably longer. That's thirty years

922
00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:13,960
ago. I remember it. So I'm sure it's

923
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,359
older than that. Yeah. Well, in radio systems,

924
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:18,039
you go back to the f to the

925
00:32:18,039 --> 00:32:19,900
GRN 2029

926
00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:21,500
and those types of systems

927
00:32:22,694 --> 00:32:23,914
for doing airfield.

928
00:32:24,295 --> 00:32:26,934
Right? And all the ILS systems are using

929
00:32:26,934 --> 00:32:27,434
beamforming

930
00:32:28,054 --> 00:32:29,275
back in the sixties.

931
00:32:29,815 --> 00:32:31,734
Right. Yeah. You're right. So that's why Right.

932
00:32:31,734 --> 00:32:33,115
Yeah. Way back.

933
00:32:33,654 --> 00:32:34,154
Yeah.

934
00:32:35,299 --> 00:32:37,700
So that's crazy. So so now five g

935
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:39,000
has a bunch of new claims.

936
00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:41,799
First off, this this one kills me.

937
00:32:42,339 --> 00:32:44,200
They're talking about day to day

938
00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:45,960
guaranteeing

939
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:48,579
day to day speeds of at least a

940
00:32:48,579 --> 00:32:50,585
100 megabits. It's like, wait a minute. We've

941
00:32:50,585 --> 00:32:52,025
already beaten the hell out of that number.

942
00:32:52,025 --> 00:32:53,484
But that's what's in the specification.

943
00:32:54,105 --> 00:32:55,384
Believe it or not, that's what's in the

944
00:32:55,384 --> 00:32:56,365
six g specification.

945
00:32:56,984 --> 00:32:59,224
Now they're also talking about going back to

946
00:32:59,224 --> 00:33:01,565
the very high frequencies. Now they're talking about

947
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:04,279
not one gigabit, two gigabit, but they're talking

948
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:07,100
about speeds between 50 and a 100 gigabits.

949
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,519
There there's not enough spectrum in the world

950
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:12,279
to do they're gonna have to join together

951
00:33:12,279 --> 00:33:13,880
like all the spectrum there is to give

952
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,500
you a 100 gigabit connection.

953
00:33:16,174 --> 00:33:19,234
And then the backhaul network would be incredible

954
00:33:19,375 --> 00:33:21,315
if I had Yes. You know?

955
00:33:21,855 --> 00:33:22,355
Yes.

956
00:33:23,295 --> 00:33:25,214
But there's not but there's not enough spectrum

957
00:33:25,214 --> 00:33:27,674
bands to tie together to do that. You

958
00:33:27,694 --> 00:33:29,615
know, they've just did some recent tests where

959
00:33:29,615 --> 00:33:31,319
they were doing five gigabit connections

960
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:33,659
on wireless,

961
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,019
and they had to tie together,

962
00:33:35,319 --> 00:33:36,839
like, seven different bands of spectrum. The fact

963
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:38,599
is most people don't own that many different

964
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:40,440
bands of spectrum, even the carriers. It's like,

965
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,960
where are you gonna find the spectrum to

966
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,980
do that with? And on top of that,

967
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:45,500
what do we need it for?

968
00:33:45,855 --> 00:33:47,694
We've had point to point microwaves for a

969
00:33:47,694 --> 00:33:48,515
long time.

970
00:33:50,255 --> 00:33:50,755
Yeah.

971
00:33:51,454 --> 00:33:53,295
They could do that much bandwidth. It's like,

972
00:33:53,295 --> 00:33:54,894
what you know, and if I if if

973
00:33:54,894 --> 00:33:56,095
one of if one of them is not

974
00:33:56,095 --> 00:33:57,894
enough, put up three of them. It's like,

975
00:33:57,894 --> 00:34:00,015
you know, this is not hard technology to

976
00:34:00,015 --> 00:34:01,980
do. So, you know, this is crazy. And

977
00:34:01,980 --> 00:34:03,660
now we have LIDAR and all sorts of

978
00:34:03,660 --> 00:34:05,019
other things that look to have a whole

979
00:34:05,019 --> 00:34:06,539
lot of promise to do it without all

980
00:34:06,539 --> 00:34:07,279
this crazy

981
00:34:07,740 --> 00:34:10,219
wireless stuff. So it's like it's a so

982
00:34:10,219 --> 00:34:12,140
that's their first big claim is we're gonna

983
00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:13,900
get way faster. But again, they're going back

984
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:15,280
to these super high frequencies,

985
00:34:15,635 --> 00:34:17,734
which are just not real world friendly.

986
00:34:18,114 --> 00:34:20,775
They don't like rain. They don't like fog.

987
00:34:21,554 --> 00:34:23,234
They don't even like when the wind blows

988
00:34:23,234 --> 00:34:24,755
and there's dust in the air. And the

989
00:34:24,755 --> 00:34:26,994
high frequencies are just very and they're real

990
00:34:26,994 --> 00:34:27,494
world

991
00:34:28,190 --> 00:34:29,949
pain in the ass touchy. They're just not

992
00:34:29,949 --> 00:34:31,630
great things to use in the real world.

993
00:34:31,630 --> 00:34:32,130
Right?

994
00:34:32,429 --> 00:34:34,109
So so but they're but they're making these

995
00:34:34,109 --> 00:34:35,869
claims. They're never gonna do it. They'll do

996
00:34:35,869 --> 00:34:37,150
it as a test every once in a

997
00:34:37,150 --> 00:34:38,750
while to kinda look what we did here

998
00:34:38,750 --> 00:34:39,809
in the lab. Right?

999
00:34:40,190 --> 00:34:40,690
So

1000
00:34:41,235 --> 00:34:43,555
they're talking about they're back to this idea

1001
00:34:43,555 --> 00:34:45,555
of small cells. They said this is they're

1002
00:34:45,555 --> 00:34:47,635
gonna reduce the cost so much that they're

1003
00:34:47,635 --> 00:34:50,135
gonna cover the entire world with six g.

1004
00:34:50,355 --> 00:34:52,914
Everybody's gonna have it. So somehow, they're gonna

1005
00:34:52,914 --> 00:34:54,595
get it to the rural areas now. That

1006
00:34:54,595 --> 00:34:57,199
one is beyond me, but they're that's literally

1007
00:34:57,199 --> 00:34:58,500
part of the hype now

1008
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,719
that they're selling it on. And and it's

1009
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,639
like, so are you gonna build more rural

1010
00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:04,559
cell towers? Because there's no one who lives

1011
00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:06,159
there like there hasn't been for the last

1012
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:06,980
fifty years.

1013
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:09,519
If you couldn't justify a three g or

1014
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:11,280
four g tower, how are you gonna justify

1015
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,434
a six g tower? Right? So that one,

1016
00:35:13,434 --> 00:35:14,795
I don't get at all. But that's a

1017
00:35:14,795 --> 00:35:16,954
big part of their claim is it's gonna

1018
00:35:16,954 --> 00:35:18,175
be so low cost,

1019
00:35:19,034 --> 00:35:21,355
that it's gonna do it. We're now talking

1020
00:35:21,434 --> 00:35:22,815
you're gonna love this number.

1021
00:35:23,114 --> 00:35:25,914
The specs says latency between point one and

1022
00:35:25,914 --> 00:35:26,734
one milliseconds.

1023
00:35:28,769 --> 00:35:30,630
It's not even possible on fiber.

1024
00:35:31,250 --> 00:35:33,329
No. It's not even it's no. It's it's

1025
00:35:33,329 --> 00:35:35,010
it's really not. About the best you can

1026
00:35:35,010 --> 00:35:36,769
do is three. So that's not at all

1027
00:35:36,769 --> 00:35:39,170
possible. So clock a you can't clock a

1028
00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:41,945
packet onto a circuit in point one millisecond.

1029
00:35:41,945 --> 00:35:43,224
No. You can't get it out of the

1030
00:35:43,224 --> 00:35:45,945
chip onto the no. So that's crazy. But

1031
00:35:45,945 --> 00:35:47,565
that's what that's what it says.

1032
00:35:48,105 --> 00:35:50,105
That that if you go go read the

1033
00:35:50,105 --> 00:35:52,289
60 specs, the I mean, these are really

1034
00:35:52,289 --> 00:35:53,269
fun reading.

1035
00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:59,250
You know? They're also, again, talking massive numbers

1036
00:35:59,250 --> 00:36:01,170
of devices again, which is they never did

1037
00:36:01,170 --> 00:36:02,690
the first time. So that's a five g

1038
00:36:02,690 --> 00:36:04,304
claim coming back around again.

1039
00:36:04,864 --> 00:36:05,364
And

1040
00:36:05,905 --> 00:36:06,885
they're now claiming

1041
00:36:07,264 --> 00:36:09,664
IoT again because they're gonna use those massive

1042
00:36:09,664 --> 00:36:11,605
number of connections to do

1043
00:36:11,984 --> 00:36:13,605
smart city, smart cars,

1044
00:36:13,984 --> 00:36:14,484
environmental

1045
00:36:14,784 --> 00:36:15,925
marketing, agricultural

1046
00:36:16,304 --> 00:36:18,304
sensors. Like, wait. Those were all five g

1047
00:36:18,304 --> 00:36:18,780
claims.

1048
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:20,940
It's like, but they're back in they're back

1049
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:23,019
in there again. So they're so they're trying

1050
00:36:23,019 --> 00:36:25,280
that one again. Nobody wanted it the first

1051
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:27,179
time. The problem you have with all those

1052
00:36:27,179 --> 00:36:28,000
things is

1053
00:36:28,460 --> 00:36:29,920
it's not it's not affordable.

1054
00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:32,925
The actual agricultural sensor to get a SIM

1055
00:36:32,925 --> 00:36:34,765
card in it is way too expensive. And

1056
00:36:34,765 --> 00:36:37,324
the electronics and it uses enough power that

1057
00:36:37,324 --> 00:36:38,765
it's really hard to keep the darn thing

1058
00:36:38,765 --> 00:36:40,364
lit. So you don't wanna have to put

1059
00:36:40,364 --> 00:36:42,364
up an expensive solar power. You want the

1060
00:36:42,364 --> 00:36:44,625
real little cheap, tiny solar

1061
00:36:44,925 --> 00:36:46,525
thing. So that means you need a very

1062
00:36:46,525 --> 00:36:46,765
low

1063
00:36:47,380 --> 00:36:48,900
you know, you need something that just blips

1064
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,900
out data now and then. So so, you

1065
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:53,460
know, cellular is not the right technology for

1066
00:36:53,460 --> 00:36:54,280
that. So,

1067
00:36:54,980 --> 00:36:56,579
this is crazy. But that's all back in

1068
00:36:56,579 --> 00:36:58,340
there again. So we're gonna we're gonna do

1069
00:36:58,340 --> 00:37:00,420
all that again. And now we're gonna go

1070
00:37:00,420 --> 00:37:01,880
one better because now

1071
00:37:02,295 --> 00:37:03,514
we are gonna have,

1072
00:37:04,454 --> 00:37:05,034
you know,

1073
00:37:05,974 --> 00:37:06,875
way better

1074
00:37:07,255 --> 00:37:09,655
advanced stuff. You know, not the three d

1075
00:37:09,655 --> 00:37:12,694
glasses. We're gonna have holograms everywhere and and

1076
00:37:12,694 --> 00:37:15,655
just all this crazy advanced stuff because six

1077
00:37:15,655 --> 00:37:17,114
g has so much bandwidth

1078
00:37:18,059 --> 00:37:19,920
that that they're gonna support every possible

1079
00:37:20,619 --> 00:37:22,800
advanced technology you could ever dream of.

1080
00:37:23,260 --> 00:37:24,160
Again, going,

1081
00:37:24,780 --> 00:37:25,760
but I have fiber.

1082
00:37:26,539 --> 00:37:28,219
Isn't that good enough to do that with?

1083
00:37:28,219 --> 00:37:30,460
I it's like, but who needs this? Right?

1084
00:37:30,460 --> 00:37:32,224
They did not. No.

1085
00:37:32,525 --> 00:37:34,204
Good news, Tom, is they had did not

1086
00:37:34,204 --> 00:37:34,704
mention

1087
00:37:35,085 --> 00:37:37,425
remote operations this time.

1088
00:37:38,445 --> 00:37:40,684
But but did they do the Internet of

1089
00:37:40,684 --> 00:37:41,184
smells?

1090
00:37:41,885 --> 00:37:42,704
I don't know.

1091
00:37:43,565 --> 00:37:46,359
Actually, I actually, I think they did. Oh,

1092
00:37:46,359 --> 00:37:48,440
god. They they what do they call that?

1093
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,539
They call that haptic sensing. Right?

1094
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,519
I think that's the I think that's the

1095
00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:54,519
term for it. So haptic sensing is in

1096
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:56,039
is in one of those. I believe that's

1097
00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:57,719
what that term means. So yes. So they

1098
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,719
are they are talking the Internet of smells.

1099
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:00,164
Yes.

1100
00:38:03,605 --> 00:38:04,905
Yeah. No. Thanks.

1101
00:38:06,005 --> 00:38:08,405
Yeah. I I I pretty much make all

1102
00:38:08,405 --> 00:38:10,184
the smells I ever need, I think.

1103
00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:14,380
I do not wanna be watching a movie

1104
00:38:14,380 --> 00:38:17,039
and have the smells of Victorian London

1105
00:38:17,579 --> 00:38:18,960
coming through the screen.

1106
00:38:19,260 --> 00:38:21,420
Or or even the or even the the

1107
00:38:21,420 --> 00:38:24,320
steam locomotive driving by smelling that thing. Yeah.

1108
00:38:24,460 --> 00:38:26,380
I don't I don't really need to smell

1109
00:38:26,380 --> 00:38:26,880
that.

1110
00:38:27,924 --> 00:38:30,025
I I'm pretty I can imagine it without

1111
00:38:30,405 --> 00:38:31,784
the without the idea in there.

1112
00:38:32,164 --> 00:38:34,005
So, you know, certainly not watching the Nature

1113
00:38:34,005 --> 00:38:35,385
Channel. That's for sure.

1114
00:38:37,045 --> 00:38:37,545
So

1115
00:38:37,924 --> 00:38:40,085
so, anyway, we're we're back to this. It's

1116
00:38:40,085 --> 00:38:42,264
honestly it's the same old list.

1117
00:38:42,750 --> 00:38:44,829
But somehow they got it's gonna be massively

1118
00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:47,250
more energy efficient and massively cheaper.

1119
00:38:48,429 --> 00:38:48,929
And

1120
00:38:49,390 --> 00:38:50,909
and I don't they don't talk about how

1121
00:38:50,909 --> 00:38:52,429
they're gonna do that. I don't know what

1122
00:38:52,429 --> 00:38:54,670
what makes any new technology cheaper than the

1123
00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:56,114
old one. It's hard to picture

1124
00:38:56,514 --> 00:38:58,355
that this this new side or technologies will

1125
00:38:58,355 --> 00:38:59,954
be cheaper for six g than they are

1126
00:38:59,954 --> 00:39:01,014
for five g. Right?

1127
00:39:01,315 --> 00:39:03,635
Yeah. If you're going triple. If you're going

1128
00:39:03,635 --> 00:39:05,014
up frequency range,

1129
00:39:05,315 --> 00:39:08,195
it actually takes a lot more power into

1130
00:39:08,914 --> 00:39:12,079
Yes. Five whatever gig range than it does

1131
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:14,099
to push something at, like, you know,

1132
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,119
whatever. But now but now this this stuff

1133
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:19,380
is most this stuff is mostly gonna concentrate

1134
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,179
on the

1135
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,519
from six to about 20. So it's gonna

1136
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:24,960
be so that's this is a lot of

1137
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,925
the stuff is gonna be twelve and and

1138
00:39:26,925 --> 00:39:29,805
sixteen gigahertz. It that's that's what they're talking

1139
00:39:29,805 --> 00:39:31,265
about using for this stuff.

1140
00:39:31,565 --> 00:39:34,045
So that that makes no sense. No. It

1141
00:39:34,045 --> 00:39:36,285
doesn't. It doesn't. For for those listening who

1142
00:39:36,285 --> 00:39:38,364
don't know this, the general rule of thumb

1143
00:39:38,364 --> 00:39:39,905
is is you lose

1144
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:43,429
essentially a log it's a logarithmic scale. You

1145
00:39:43,429 --> 00:39:43,929
lose

1146
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:46,789
half your power every wavelength. And every time

1147
00:39:46,789 --> 00:39:47,929
you go up frequency,

1148
00:39:48,469 --> 00:39:51,590
your wavelength gets increasingly shorter. So, like, if

1149
00:39:51,590 --> 00:39:53,510
I'm sending something at 10 meters, I don't

1150
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:55,605
even know what frequency that is, a 10

1151
00:39:55,605 --> 00:39:56,985
or 40 meter wavelength,

1152
00:39:57,445 --> 00:39:59,945
like, I push a 100 watts behind it,

1153
00:40:00,244 --> 00:40:02,485
and I'm still at a watt, you know,

1154
00:40:02,485 --> 00:40:04,505
like, way out there

1155
00:40:04,804 --> 00:40:05,545
in distance.

1156
00:40:05,844 --> 00:40:07,864
If I'm pushing it at six gigahertz

1157
00:40:08,244 --> 00:40:09,304
or 12 gigahertz,

1158
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,340
oh my gosh. Like Yeah.

1159
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,119
It's just you lose all the power in

1160
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:18,099
in a city block. Yeah. No. Exactly. It's

1161
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,920
it's it's literally that short of a distance.

1162
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,619
They found that those those

1163
00:40:22,045 --> 00:40:24,304
those those, can you hear me, Verizon things,

1164
00:40:24,525 --> 00:40:26,045
they had to put a cell site every

1165
00:40:26,045 --> 00:40:27,664
thousand feet to make those work,

1166
00:40:28,204 --> 00:40:29,965
which means they only were carrying 500 feet.

1167
00:40:29,965 --> 00:40:31,405
So you had to be within 500 feet

1168
00:40:31,405 --> 00:40:33,405
of a cell site. So Yeah. That's that's

1169
00:40:33,405 --> 00:40:35,425
crazy. That's real that's really close.

1170
00:40:35,909 --> 00:40:37,609
Yeah. It really is.

1171
00:40:38,389 --> 00:40:38,889
Wow.

1172
00:40:39,269 --> 00:40:40,089
So yeah.

1173
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:41,849
So I don't know.

1174
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:43,989
I think I felt like we've kinda beat

1175
00:40:43,989 --> 00:40:45,989
this one to death. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty

1176
00:40:45,989 --> 00:40:47,989
much that's a pretty much everything there is

1177
00:40:47,989 --> 00:40:49,954
to say about it. But we're right. But

1178
00:40:49,954 --> 00:40:52,855
it just it's feeling like deja vu, because

1179
00:40:52,994 --> 00:40:55,094
all of this has been talked about before.

1180
00:40:55,394 --> 00:40:57,155
But in this country, ten or twelve years

1181
00:40:57,155 --> 00:40:59,235
is forever ago and everybody forgot. So it's

1182
00:40:59,235 --> 00:41:01,875
fresh again except for except for the people

1183
00:41:01,875 --> 00:41:04,114
like us that were annoyed the first time.

1184
00:41:04,114 --> 00:41:04,920
It's new.

1185
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,039
Wow. So any other questions, Tom, before we

1186
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:13,000
drop off? No. No. No. We're good. Anything

1187
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,400
you wanna say, Doug, before we wrap up

1188
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:15,900
and

1189
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,880
No. I appreciate you letting me talk about

1190
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,559
this because this has been bugging me for

1191
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:20,894
a year. This this is one of this

1192
00:41:20,974 --> 00:41:22,655
is one of those topics that just annoy

1193
00:41:22,655 --> 00:41:23,875
the hell out of me because,

1194
00:41:24,815 --> 00:41:25,474
you know,

1195
00:41:25,934 --> 00:41:28,735
there the cellular business has come down to

1196
00:41:28,735 --> 00:41:30,275
marketing based on price.

1197
00:41:31,215 --> 00:41:33,875
Plain and simple. If there's too much supply

1198
00:41:34,094 --> 00:41:34,994
for the demand,

1199
00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:37,739
and and it's nothing more than price wars

1200
00:41:37,739 --> 00:41:39,039
and packaging wars.

1201
00:41:39,420 --> 00:41:41,099
To talk about the need for these two

1202
00:41:41,099 --> 00:41:43,260
new technologies makes no sense because they're not

1203
00:41:43,260 --> 00:41:44,559
gonna make it any better.

1204
00:41:44,860 --> 00:41:47,099
Yeah. You know? No. I don't really care

1205
00:41:47,099 --> 00:41:49,820
if six g I already increased from 100

1206
00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:50,960
to 300 megabits,

1207
00:41:51,295 --> 00:41:52,974
and I don't care if they now increase

1208
00:41:52,974 --> 00:41:54,974
it to three gigabits. I I don't need

1209
00:41:54,974 --> 00:41:56,414
it anymore than I needed it at a

1210
00:41:56,414 --> 00:41:58,974
100 megabits. So so I I don't understand

1211
00:41:58,974 --> 00:42:00,735
what this is all about. I don't get

1212
00:42:00,735 --> 00:42:03,295
it. And and and we're tech guys. It's

1213
00:42:03,295 --> 00:42:04,574
like, if we don't like it, who the

1214
00:42:04,574 --> 00:42:05,954
hell is gonna like that?

1215
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:08,730
Yeah. Exactly.

1216
00:42:09,269 --> 00:42:10,329
Alright. Well,

1217
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:13,430
Doug, where can people find you and get

1218
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:15,269
in touch if they want to or follow

1219
00:42:15,269 --> 00:42:16,010
your work?

1220
00:42:16,869 --> 00:42:18,550
Yeah. The easiest way to find me is

1221
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:20,250
on Pots and Pins by CCG.

1222
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:23,054
My email address is on there. So so

1223
00:42:23,054 --> 00:42:24,815
I'm I'm easy to find. My company is

1224
00:42:24,815 --> 00:42:28,094
CCG Consulting. So if you need engineering or

1225
00:42:28,094 --> 00:42:30,335
business market plans, you know, look me up.

1226
00:42:30,335 --> 00:42:31,694
So that's what we do for a living.

1227
00:42:31,694 --> 00:42:32,194
So,

1228
00:42:32,815 --> 00:42:34,734
but I I I think I'm in my

1229
00:42:34,734 --> 00:42:36,815
thirteenth or fourteenth year of writing a blog

1230
00:42:36,815 --> 00:42:39,380
every day. So it's it's about topics like

1231
00:42:39,380 --> 00:42:40,900
that. I've probably written about five g at

1232
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:42,660
least dozen times over the years. Once a

1233
00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:43,619
year at least. So

1234
00:42:44,260 --> 00:42:46,340
Yeah. Well, we'll get you back on. I

1235
00:42:46,340 --> 00:42:48,099
mean, this is this is a fun conversation.

1236
00:42:48,099 --> 00:42:49,460
We'll get you back on. It is. This

1237
00:42:49,460 --> 00:42:52,440
was a fun conversation. Thank you. And, Tom,

1238
00:42:52,739 --> 00:42:54,119
say your word. Go ahead.

1239
00:42:54,795 --> 00:42:55,295
LinkedIn.

1240
00:42:55,994 --> 00:42:56,815
So okay.

1241
00:42:57,514 --> 00:42:58,014
So

1242
00:42:59,194 --> 00:43:01,295
that that's Tom Tom's entire

1243
00:43:01,835 --> 00:43:04,635
social media spiel, in case you're interested, is

1244
00:43:04,635 --> 00:43:06,014
the one word. LinkedIn.

1245
00:43:06,549 --> 00:43:08,389
Alright. I'm Russ Weitzk. I'm here at the

1246
00:43:08,389 --> 00:43:10,409
hedge, rule eleven dot tech on LinkedIn,

1247
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:14,230
occasionally on x whatever whatever. I'm actually pretty

1248
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:16,069
easy to find. We know we live in

1249
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:18,809
an attention driven economy, so your attention is

1250
00:43:19,284 --> 00:43:20,025
what we value here,

1251
00:43:20,324 --> 00:43:22,005
and we thank you for listening all the

1252
00:43:22,005 --> 00:43:23,764
way to the bitter end of this episode

1253
00:43:23,764 --> 00:43:25,525
of The Hedge, and we will catch you

1254
00:43:25,525 --> 00:43:26,264
next time.