Join us as we gather around the hedge,
where we dig into technology,
business, and culture with the finest minds in
computer networking.
Well, hello, Tom. How are you this morning?
Good morning, Russ. Doing great. How about you?
I'm fine.
Artemis.
Artemis. We were talking about space and and
and all that stuff.
That's a great thing, I think, maybe,
until we discover the aliens, and then they
come after us. Then we have War of
the Worlds.
Nice. Well, it couldn't be any worse than
US politics. Right?
I don't know. Probably shouldn't say that.
I don't know. Who knows? World politics in
general right now. Holy mackerel. The world's gone
insane.
So
we are again joined by Jamie Schwartz.
So, Jamie,
you are
around Princeton if I remember correctly. Right?
Westchester, just North of New York City. Okay.
The opposite direction of New York. Alright. Okay.
Right. Got it. I don't know why I
was thinking Princeton, but sure. Westchester. Okay.
Yeah. I've been watching what's going on in
Paterson and some other places up there. Very
interesting stuff going on around New York City.
So
let's continue talking about Web three point
o. And,
just like when people think of Web three
point o, what are the things they think
of before before we jump into the fourth
rung, as you call it, or the fourth
rung?
Yeah. A little bit of context, I think.
And I said this in the last podcast.
Web two was kind of broadband and mobile
and apps and centralized social media. So Web
three has been
these introductions of generative
AI, of XR, meaning mixed reality,
augmented reality, virtual reality.
And
as along with,
AI
kind of coming together with NFTs,
we've got a blockchain back end, we've got
an AI user interface,
conversational media, and we've got an immersive spatial
space forming.
And right now, Web three point zero seems
like it's really kind of coming into its
own as these three technologies are converging and
creating new emergencies. And,
that's pretty much everything that everybody's taken to
account is in some form of that category.
And, of course, Gen AI is way more
than than just Gen AI. It's deep learning
machine learning and all the other stuff that
goes there and XR is a lot of
different kind of immersion things that we've been
building for a long time and in the
regular web world and,
it's
blockchain has a lot of different use cases
from finance to
security to provenance, and and they're all in
in,
their own ways building. It's very, very complex.
But if you simplify it down, yeah, those
are the three pillars.
Okay.
So
we talked a lot about NFTs.
So now let's talk about quantum. What is
the point behind quantum? What is going on
with quantum?
Why is this such a different
mode of computation?
And, of course, there's two bits to it.
The first bit is
on the network side, it's just entanglement
and overcoming the speed of light in terms
of transmission,
as well as, you know, some other things
in that area.
From the compute side, it's this intermediate state
thing. Right? It's this is neither it's neither
true nor false.
Yeah. I was talking with my, CMO from
Mark yesterday. She had asked Chat g b
t to write a poem about this, and
Chat g b t came up with this
line about the space in between
one and zero.
And I thought that was such a beautiful
wherever it hallucinated it from kind of point.
And that's, yeah, that's kind of the context
of what's going on here. Compute for us
is binary code. Zero's and one's gates that
are just saying yes or no a million
times over and that's the same thing as
our neurons yes or no fire don't fire.
But quantum gives us this third space
both at the same time this a oneness
and that allows for binary to now be
three
parameters
which just permit
on a on a exponential growth scale the
amount of permutations you can do with three
instead of two a million times over, that's
where the scale is coming from with quantum.
So but it's not the same thing as
going to a four
to a four octa or to a four
bit or a four state
type of thing. It's a three state, but
it's not even really three states. Right? It's
an indeterminate state. It could be either zero
or it could be one,
depending on the interpretation
at the moment. And if you get enough
indeterminate states, you may end up with a
one or a zero.
But I don't think a lot of people
understand how that has an impact
in the way you process things.
Right? So you have this third state. Well,
okay. How does that help me break keys?
How does that help me do anything? I
don't understand
why adding this in between state makes a
difference.
That's also why it's so hard to program
for quantum computing
because programming in general is based on a
binary
state of ones and zeros. So when you
have this not only third state, but the
third state that could be either one way
or the other,
you end up in this
probability zone
where you're not talking about fixed ones and
zeros, you're talking about probabilities.
So this isn't computing.
This isn't,
one and zero computing binary computing. This is
probability computing,
which means it's really really crappy at doing
normal programming, you know, just do a calculation.
But it's a really really good
at predictive analysis
at looking at the whole thing at once.
Another way of putting it would be if
you're trying to get through a maze,
binary code will
go through where it's programmed to go.
The
quantum version of that is going through all
the maze at once at the same time
and then
just showing you the one solution that you
wanted to see even though it has all
the solutions for all the possibilities in all
time all at once.
Interesting. So so
if I were in the maze, if I
were the rat in the maze,
the binary way for me to solve a
maze
from inside the maze is to always turn
right or always turn left.
Because, eventually,
if I turn right, even if I end
a dead end, I'm going to wrap around,
follow the right wall, and I'll eventually find
my way out. Now, there are some
clever maze designs
where that's not possible.
But by and large, if you're in a
maze I don't know if you knew this
or not. Put your hand on the right
wall and follow it.
And eventually, you will find it's you won't
it won't be the short path. It won't
be the easy path. But eventually,
you should, in theory,
find your way out. So we're just Jack
Nicholson knew that in The Shining.
So,
now somebody's gonna listen to this and prove
me wrong, but that's okay. That's what I
understand. I mean, When I was doing maze
when that's when I was doing some maze
puzzle solving stuff, that's always what I followed,
and it always seemed to work. So now
with quantum, when you come to each intersection,
you try to figure out a probability
based on prior actions
or future probabilities.
Right? You're saying, maybe I should go right,
maybe I should go left, or maybe I
should hold my decision in abeyance
until I explore each path
a certain distance.
Is that You've actually well, you've actually brought
up an interesting way of thinking about the
difference between quantum computing and AI computing here
versus the regular algorithmic computing. So the algorithmic
computing you can program in, always turn
right. And it'll eventually get there, you know.
AI is doing that a thousand times.
Not always not always turn right, but going
okay. Now I'm gonna try always turn left.
Now I'm gonna try right right left. And
it will go through all those things and
it will have learned
just by sheer practice of every possibility.
What is the probabilistic
way I should be moving? And then use
that with every turn moving forward and get
better and better at maze solving versus quantum,
which is literally
going through all of it at the same
time, the same state all at once. It's
such a different way of thinking about stuff.
That once again is why programming is so
different
when it comes to what quantum
can do especially
oh my goodness, put those two things together,
quantum computation
with an AI software.
That's
mind bogglingly
even, you know, way further than just quantum
on its
own. Crazy thinking.
So when you when you when you look
to scale up,
traditional computing, non quantum computing, you know, you
look at things like the density of transistors
on a chip and things like that. And
as you as you scale that up, you
make a thing more powerful, more more capable
of doing more calculations per second, whatever.
How how do you how do you look
at the how do you look at the
hardware, the underlying capabilities in terms of quantum?
Is it it is it is it a
simple linear Moore's Law type of thing? Is
it Hells no.
Would imagine that. Yeah. No. It's it's a
well,
this is where I actually look to the
Blackfeet tribe of Montana.
What? Yes. No. That there's a reason.
So I was studying the Blackfeet tribe in
in 2017. We're trying to help them with
their community college advance,
and status. And
I started to understand the or learn from
them about the Pecanee language that they use.
And like most indigenous languages, it's contextual,
which means you don't point at things.
You point at contexts.
So that's why, you know, when you hear,
you know, the the typical American, cliche would
be dances with wolves.
His name isn't Wolf.
It's dances with wolves.
A, a woman that we worked with there,
Daniel Antelope, her,
indigenous name or first nation name is comes
in singing.
And the analogy I like to use that
they gave is if you're pointing at a
wheat field,
there's no word for wheat. There's wheat in
the wind. There's wheat through the soil.
It's it's always in context.
And because of that, quantum physicists
have been studying
the Pecani language in specific,
use but indigenous language in general, contextual languages
in general, to understand how to describe the
quantum realm.
So long walk back to where we were,
think about electrons. You can't talk about an
electrons place
anywhere in that cloud of where it's supposed
to be. It is a probability
of where it is supposed to be at
any one place because you're transcending
time.
And then as soon as you say, well,
at this point,
you can lock it in. But you have
to then pick a time. But that's because
you
are take trying to translate something from four
d into three d.
Quantum state is a natural four d state.
Another way weird way of thinking about it
is because we're three-dimensional beings living through time,
that means that we are just
at any one microsecond, a slice of ourselves.
But if you include space time, if you
think fourth dimensionally,
all of us all at once
is together as one thing.
So when you hear it in like sci
fi stories,
I know I the past and the present
and the future are the same to me.
So I'm suffering with you back a hundred
years ago and, you know, laughing with you
five minutes from now at the same time.
What that's what that meant. So a quantum
computer
works on that
logic, quote unquote,
everything all at once.
Great movie if you haven't seen it. Everything
everywhere all at once.
I don't know if I answered your question,
but, wow, I went on a lot of
long tangent. No. No. It's fine. So so
so this actually relates philosophically to something called
a time, b time, presentism.
But let's not get, like, too deep into
philosophy. I mean, this comes to mind. Why
not?
I was just reading a paper on a
time, b time, and,
presentism,
last night for I don't know. It just
popped into my radar and I went and
read it just because it was there.
Come on. This is what you get when
you get a PhD in philosophy.
My one of my thesis in college on
philosophy was on proving nothingness from Wittgenstein.
Yeah. Well, okay. Yeah. I literally handed him
a paper with my name on it. He
gave me a C.
Interesting.
Yeah. So
so you never gotten the paperback that said
this is nonsense,
and that was it. No. Seriously?
It could because nonsense would be something. Yeah.
Well, that's true. Okay. So,
Well, so I I guess kinda where I
was going with that question was, at some
point, all of all of these really great
ideas are gonna translate into capital requirements of
a business. Somebody's gonna have to buy chips
to do things. Right? Mhmm. And so,
I'm I'm I guess I'm just more
pragmatic about things. So so what is the
like, what are what are the economic drivers
that make it like, I would assume this
machine is more expensive to build than
a normal x 86 machine, and I assume
that there's a small much smaller market for
what it would do.
What about in terms of economics? Yeah. Yeah.
So,
the CTO for Mark is Matt Hampton of
Envoy Design
and he has access to three
quantum computers right now.
One's a nine qubit, one's an 18 qubit,
and one's a 72 qubit.
That's kind of like we're talking in megahertz,
I guess,
analogy. Okay. But the point would be it's
how many qubits you have on a on
a chip that allows for, you know, that
exponential amount of growth. As you were saying
before, you know, we are our,
wires are getting thinner, our,
megahertz are getting faster, you know, how many
transistors can we fit? It's how many cubits
can we get? And right now the biggest
problem is when they're all next to each
other,
there's a lot of interference coming in. So
you get a lot of errors. And that's
what the war is going on right now.
If you're ever seeing any advancements, there's a
new chip that just came in from China
that's blowing the water out of Google's chip
that was blowing the water out of Microsoft's
theory that they had a new kind of
piece of matter.
It's all about how many chips can you
put on without interference problems and beating that.
The very first product that
Matt came up with with his company
was an entropy machine because
booting up a quantum computer like you turn
on your computer goes ding and it's boots
and you're there. A quantum computer takes hours.
It's like this is a flywheel
that has to get going and that's a
bad analogy that right there but it's huge
amount of energy to get going like a
nuclear reactor or something you've got to get
it going And then it's really hard to
turn off. But when you do that,
it creates
pure entropy.
So they're automatically selling quantum secure
randomness
as a package just by booting it up.
There you go. I mean it's really expensive
to boot up a machine so you probably
want to monetize it anyway, but that's one
thing.
They've built a product off of that
which is and you probably heard about this
from years ago where people would put Wi
Fi
in
the variations of the flicker of the light
bulbs.
So you would transfer it by light. So,
they're talking to
security focused companies that are all on lands
that can't afford to go on Wi Fi,
can't
to
do quantum secured wifi
with the lights,
where it has that pure entropy built into
it.
And pure entropy is the only thing that
you know it can't be hacked.
And so there's a product right over there.
They're starting to play with AI,
starting with images and they've gotten to the
point now and this they've got an amazing
quantum programmer. I don't know what you call
it.
That has been fussing with generative AI imaging.
And they've gotten it down to creating some
polka dots and some and some diagonal lines.
In and of itself, it's like when you're
starting with this
crazy
fourth dimensional
technology,
and we're stuck here in three dimensions trying
to figure out what to do with it.
It's huge to be able to go. We
made polka dots. Mhmm. You know, to try
to get the Ferrari, you know, the Ferrari
to to park a Ferrari in a garage
that wants to be going 500 miles an
hour to do that, it's it's these are
those are leaps and bounds on a software
level. The software for Quantum
is so much harder to comprehend than Quantum
itself.
And I won't pretend to know really anything
in that area, but just the consequence of
it. So we're if we wanna think about
it in terms of a software development,
oh, boy.
You know, like, we've got to really think
very, very differently. This isn't, yay, we beat
Moore's Law. We now know how to get
past. It's a different beast altogether. We're gonna
have regular computation
as a complement to it for a long
time. Where you're really going to get the
benefits are
world building.
We're starting to make metaverses
that require
ecosystems.
And I'm very hopeful on that level where
AI and quantum can come together
to basically just give us that
object permanence that's required in an ecosystem.
What's the brain
behind you know, what's it?
I'll use philosophy. Descartes
was proving God existed because somebody had to
be watching the Observer effect had to be
watching reality in order for it to be
there.
That's how it works for
a better verse.
What's the server that's keeping that
world going
and quantum can be God for that space
in that way because it's the only thing
that's omnipotent enough
omniscient enough to be able to control
weather systems and tectonics and all the MPCs
and everything at once that then regular computationally
I can sit on top of.
So when when you talk about qubits,
are you talking about number of qubits per
produced per
x time period, or are you talking about
qubits as, like, registers in a standard processor?
This processor to it as the the the
qubit on the chip.
So it's like So it's like a register
on a processor. It's like this chip has
72 qubits.
Mhmm.
So those are
analogous to, like, memory locations
or memory registers,
but they're not really there.
They're kind of like cores, if you if
you think of it that way. I mean,
it could it could be cores. It could
be gates. The analogy works either way. Yeah.
It's just because it's so different. But, like,
go back to transistor computers, and we're talking
about, like, one gate at a time, one
bit, one byte here. Great. Cool. That's one
bit. Or you could talk about now where
we're putting multiple cores together to create, you
know, a chip that's a bunch of chips.
So you could think of it that way
too. It's just they're both analogies.
Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Of course, they're analogies.
But yeah. So it's so it's not per
second.
It's not processing speed.
It's how many of these things it has
on the chip.
It's how much probability can you hold at
one time. Right. Yeah. Okay.
That's fine. Which translates to how much probability
can you hold at one time? Because if
you look at it once again to the
electrons, got two electrons on the inner cloud
then eight. So I've got to deal with
two probabilities sitting right here. Yeah. Now I've
got to deal with 10 probabilities.
I've got to deal with 18 probabilities.
So you had, earlier you had some predictions
about this will be the year of blank.
What what do you see? I'm so scared.
I think I think because we're now at
a stage where there are
fifth there are more than 50 and less
than a hundred commercial,
quantum computers out there right now. That means
we're in that such early stage where people,
certain people have access and they're playing around
with it right now. They're trying to figure.
But
in that, there's got to be somebody who's
going to break quantum
because the whole point of a
blockchain
is that it would take a computer
more than multiple lifetimes in order to be
able to brute hack
the the chain.
But with the quantum,
that's what we're talking about in terms of
the leap here. So it,
when you can figure out how to use
the quantum computer to do that brute hack
on a blockchain,
somebody's just going
to, if they're smart about it,
get in there,
get a bunch of Bitcoin,
sell it off slowly, and then break the
system.
Not just break the system.
But that's probably gonna happen, if not this
year, next.
So when I'm explaining
crypto to people, cryptographic
hash algorithms, cryptographic algorithms,
one way I tend to do it, which
which crypto people think I'm nuts to do
it this way, is that
I have
a I have
a possible a three d array
of possible
input text
Or clear text.
If I pass it through this particular algorithm
with this particular
key,
that is going to produce a three d
array of possible outputs.
So in reality,
I could actually
skip the algorithm,
create the two three d thing, use it
as a substitution cipher.
And crypto people think that's insane. But that's
really if you knew the entire
scope of all possible inputs,
you could know the scope of all possible
outputs.
And when you know both of those, it
really is just it's a substitution cipher. I'm
just taking this bit.
That goes there. Oh, there it is over
there. So it's kind of this it's kind
of
a a huge fancy so with quantum, I'm
guessing what you're saying is that,
as you said, you can kind of explore
the entire maze at once,
which is still something that's very hard to
understand.
I could explore the entire input space
and therefore see or I could see the
entire output space and explore, like, what the
possible inputs are.
And I can actually reverse the crypto
without having to, like, necessarily know what the
key is.
So yes and yes and no. I think
that Okay. There's a little bit of an
oversimplification that I absolutely don't wanna pretend that
I know the answer to here. But
what I thought I heard you say was
that we can explore all at once. It's
that the quantum computer can do it all
at once. So we don't see that. Right.
You know, we're not seeing all possibilities at
once. We could not comprehend,
let alone be able to witness.
So it's it's more that we have an
answer sitting over here
and Quantum's figuring out what's the right question
to that answer and we'll only provide you
with what fits this lock
after going through all the possibilities. Right. To
To be able to explore all those possibilities,
I have no idea what kind of access
we have into that.
Right. But that's but that's essentially, it seems
to me, how this would solve that problem.
Yeah. So that's all we care about. Right?
We don't care about all the possibilities. We
just care about the ones that lead where
we're trying to go. Right. We're trying to
break key. Exactly. Or yeah. Or you can
look at Quantum like a skeleton key. Yeah.
It just fits every lock, not because it's
a skeleton key, but because it is every
key at the same time.
So when we say that
you're going to have
a quantum safe crypto
algorithm,
I'm not entirely certain how you could
given that description.
Well, you know, defense and offense is not
you make something and now I've perfectly,
an old that out, and then you make
something, I know that out. It's something advances,
something advances higher, something advances higher. So blockchain
right now
has created the system, Satoshi's model of proof
of work, which we now use for proof
of stake, proof of time, etcetera,
that decentralized model that,
makes it so hard of a complication in
order to fit.
That's the highest level of calculation that we
have. That's why, you know, that's the crypto
part of this.
The quantum
will be able to break that, but then
you'll be able to do a quantum blockchain.
So at the same time as you have
the thing that kills
the
regular blockchain
you have the potential of the quantum blockchain
which can be just as simple as a
crypto,
what's the word I used before entropy.
You can just basically create the entropy key
on top of the crypto you have now.
And that's what the government's doing when they're
talking about,
making sure that files just files not like
blockchain anything are crypto safe.
It's creating those those hashes that are on
a crypto level rather than those hashes that
are just on a regular compute level.
So just feeding
the key or the the
seed for the hash
with a more complex
or a longer
key or hash, which ramps up the complexity
in a way that makes it
harder
to explore the entire space.
Right. What what I'm hoping, because this can't
isn't proven yet, is that
defense naturally
wins over over offense when all things are
being equal. So a quantum computer can break
anything that's not quantum, but a quantum computer
can't play like a blockchain,
quantum without itself needing, you know, thousands of
years or whatever to to
to break it. That's a one to one
analogy. I don't know if that's proper or
not. I'm theorizing here.
I'm hoping that stays the case because we've
got to rely on
some parts of reality sticking through as we
go through this.
Yeah.
Yeah. Very interesting.
So that was that was one. There were
other
other than breaking blockchain, there were other
predictions you had
about what's coming this year. Any one of
those you wanna talk about first? No. Not
really. Tom?
No. Let's just hear him. What's on your
mind? I don't know. I'm trying to prime
you guys because I don't remember what I
said. I'm trying to remember.
It's like, no. There's more choice we're trying
to get to, like, because because there's still
many damn things.
Well, let's let's talk about quantum and AI.
Yeah. So what is the intersection there that
you find
fascinating?
Because I, like, I, like, have my own
thoughts about AI, but it's another entire
realm. It's philosophical. It's epistemology,
stuff like that. So
what about AI and quantum?
Do you find that that particular combination
to be fascinating?
So
well, I mean, we hinted at this a
little bit with the maze. There's a way,
think of AI as software.
Think of quantum as hardware.
And even that's an analogy in and of
itself, but even though it sounds like it's
exactly one to one.
But how is,
AI
going through the maze?
It is
building probabilistic behavior that it's learning from and
referring back to. And that's why we keep
thinking AI is sentient because it has recall.
You know, a thousand tokens or a million
tokens or whatever it is, but, you know,
enough for recall.
And then it keeps building that into from
memory into behavior that it can reference.
That by itself
is
intelligence.
You know, it's this augmented intelligence or separated
intelligence. We're trying to argue about what kind
of intelligence it is, but it's an intelligence.
The AI side of that sorry. The quantum
side of that is this probabilistic where it's
just proof forcing through all of reality because
we have the
benefit of living in only one slice of
a possibility
instead of everything all at once. So we're
living with this
multidimensional
thing
in our one dimensional world. Where if you
combine those two things, where you're adding
a multi dimensional capability of brute force all
possibility
with a
transformer
software
that is all about
learning and the probability on that.
On the one hand, we can think about
today's technology and just talk about, wow, I
mean, that's probably what's gonna bring the singularity
and that's basically the turbo boost AI that
we're thinking of.
But think more philosophically about it, what those
really can mean to put those together.
You have multidimensional
AI.
And I mean, we're in Douglas Adams space
now.
We're going to be getting to these things
where if you're thinking about something that can
learn probability over time of all things that
are possible,
It's it's almost like it's
I I dare saying this because I don't
even know what this hell this sounds like,
but
creating
a,
a reality as it goes,
if that makes sense.
Because it's saying, okay, what reality am I
referring to here? What reality am I referring
to here? And then learning back about what
I just did. I'm going through the maze
all the time at once and yet also
learning while I'm doing it.
Does that even make any sense at all?
Possibly.
Possibly. I'm I'm not I'm not certain it's
metaphysically coherent at this point. I would have
to think about it. I would have to
think about it more. But I'll put it
I'll Google through the analogy of the the
electron then. So with the cloud, right, that
we can do it on a quantum level
because we'd say, okay, probability. We know where
where it is because we can say the
electrons everywhere all at once.
Now we have AI to say, okay, based
on everywhere all at once, where is it
really?
Great. Pick an anchor point. We can do
it. But if you add AI on top
of that,
you can create the behavior. You can predict
the behavior
of that electron.
You can see what it did every other
time before this. Happy Pi Day by by
the way.
I just love that we're recording this on
03/2014.
So put put all that
together and you're getting
predictive
intelligence
cause that's basically what a gen AI is
right now and I don't wanna pretend what
comes after that.
Mixed with
multiple probability
blockchain. Sorry. Multiple probability quantum.
Interesting.
So
where do you think this takes us,
from our perception of truth?
Like, epistemology.
Mhmm. Because
I would I would argue that
one of the major problems with AI right
now
is that it doesn't actually seek truth.
It seeks the appearance of truth.
That which
which is why we think it's artificially intelligent
because its answers are always plausible.
Mhmm. And it does it doesn't actually seek
truth. It seeks plausibility.
And then, by the way, there there's a
lot of philosophy behind this in in other
areas, but go ahead, Tom.
I would just kinda going back to the
electron cloud model,
you know, one of the reasons we use
that is because
the the probability of where any place that
it might be is is good enough for
our purposes. Yeah. We don't actually need to
know the precise location of the electron. Right?
We can build all sorts of things without
knowing the precise. And and we certainly in
that way of thinking, I'm not saying this
is the way everyone should think, but in
that way of thinking, we certainly don't need
to know where the electron was two microseconds
ago. Or how you know, whatever that scale
that unit is wrong. But like like where
where was it a little bit ago and
where was it a little bit before that?
Not useful for us. We actually don't have
the capability to harness it even if we
knew that. And so,
you know, with the Electron Cloud model as
sort of
a a base for us.
Truths would be, well, two units of time
ago the Electron was here, but does that
help us? What is what what does that
do for us, and what what possibilities does
that enable?
Yeah.
And and and that'd be before you jump
in, Jamie, I'll just say Yeah. That's actually
what's useful about quantum.
Is it just like you're saying, Tom, we
can build useful things without knowing.
And in fact,
there in many ways we cannot know.
Because once we know,
we lose other information.
Data itself is a trade off, right?
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, right? I can say, if
I can measure the location of this electron,
once I have measured it, it is impossible
for me
to measure the vector
of that electron, where it's going. Because you've
changed it by observing it. Because you've changed
it by measuring it. Right?
So the usefulness comes from suspending
disbelief
or suspending the importance
of knowing where it is and where it's
going
and building something outside of that based on
the probability.
So quantum seems to me to have that
same principle.
I don't really care what the
what the particular translation from this
space to that particular space is.
I care about the probability and what can
I can do that's useful
based on that probability?
So I'm so glad I didn't jump in
there because that adds so much to where
I wanted to go anyway.
Think of the the photon split,
point, you know, like it it I don't
know where it falls on the hands, but
what do you get? You get a bell
curve of probability.
So from our human minds, we go, I
guess that means it's at the top of
the bell curve. No, it's still everywhere all
at once. It's just it's still just probability.
And what you're learning is it's a probability.
Here's its probabilities.
So,
you have to go back to the human
condition
of
our
rock and a hard place of being stuck
in this body
but with the imagination,
you know, that is unlimited.
So we've been living through
what is the future look like? What's going
to happen beyond us? What happened before
us? What is probability like we're able to
have these conversations
to a point.
But there's no way for us to live
in a lot of this stuff. And you're
talking about these limits like we have truths.
Like your shirt
is brown and blue and white. No, it
isn't. That's my interpretation
of it. You know, a bird's gonna look
at that and see the the different frequencies
and the ultraviolet stuff. And and you're and
the colored one person's gonna see it different
too. Truth is something that we invented.
Math only exists because we're capable of seeing
it. There's other things in the quantum realm
that we're gonna start seeing that are there
only because of our interpretation of it. They're
always guardrails.
Observation
always changes the definition
no matter what it is.
So the observer effect creates
the guardrails of a definition of something. All
definitions are
not fully encompassing
no matter what they are. So if you
if you think from that perspective of our
limited human capacity, our curse of being able
to
know way more than we're capable of experiencing
or
imagine way more than we're capable of experiencing
that plays into
a lot of this in terms of looking
at
the the cloud or seeing what what probability
is or
how we're trying to define something because we
have to get our heads into a quantum
space rather than, I'll go to Marvel and
what
if? You know, they're
they're stuck in the multiverse stuff like they're
tripping into that space
and they're trying to explain it all away
and you end up with this this whole
thing of like finding the different timelines and
everything.
They are explaining the quantum to us both,
you know, the quantum realm and also on
the super timeline of all the universe. Same
rules apply all the way at the top
and all the way at the bottom. We're
back to probabilities.
So, you know, even Disney can help with
moving us in this direction.
Okay. So
AI
or LLMs. I hate using the word AI
because AI is, like, has a specific meaning,
and we just apply it to everything,
like, regardless. We're like, oh, it's AI. Well,
we used to call expert systems AI. Now
we call LLMs AI. Like, we just like
it's it's
okay. Call it it's an LLM.
It's a large language model. Right?
It it may be within the the you
may be able to classify it within the
realm of AI,
but,
you know, we tend to over we tend
to overplay our classification here.
So LLMs
and quantum, and then we talked about crypto
and the impact on
which is not just a blockchain problem.
It's an overall
problem
for all crypto. Right?
That Oh, of course. Yeah. Because because crypto
is actually predicated. We tend to think that
crypto is predicated on the idea
that I'm gonna protect this information forever, and
that's absolutely untrue.
Crypto is predicated on the idea that there
is a time value to information.
And as long as I can keep you
from getting the information
before its value runs out in time,
then I have done good enough.
Because frankly, there's there's no way to protect
information forever.
I mean, there's always a way to break
crypto. It's just a matter of how long
do you wanna take
and how many resources.
So it's like
building your house
so that it takes the burglar
two hours to break in instead of ten
minutes.
And it takes them a set set of
specialized tools, right, to break in instead of
just a hammer or just a flat bar.
Well, you've made you've made
the contents of the house are not worth
breaking in for
if it's gonna take me that much more
effort.
Like, there's a time value here. There's two
giant concepts you've just jumped in on here,
but I wanna make sure you finish your
sentence. No. It's fine. Yeah. That's that's what
I'm thinking. Like, so Yeah. For all of
crypto,
what what quantum really does is
it inverts
or breaks down
the time it takes
to
find this the clear text
instead of the ciphertext,
which then makes going after
less expensive or less valuable information
worthwhile
in a sense. So
do you,
one of the newer kinds of astrophysics
and,
things that people talk about with black holes
and stuff is,
there's another kind
of matter. I don't even know what you
call it,
that exists
in the universe because we are in a
time,
bar,
information.
It's kind of the,
the alignment with with entropy. The universe is
going from is going is moving towards entropy.
But along the way,
you can always slice,
the universe up into time and see what
information is where. And so there's this idea,
like, the black holes can can they erase
information or not?
But the point being there is
on that level, that's one of the deep
things that I think is worth going in
here. Quantum,
because it transcends its all possibilities,
it's able to know information before and after
something.
So, you know, it's the same thing as
like if you if you have a piece
of paper and you burn it, so it's
ash. There's no way to put that back
together.
However, theoretically, there is. Theoretically, you can get
the atoms back together in a way you
can not reverse time but actually rebuild it
so that it is
what the information held before that that is
in there somewhere.
And it's theoretical but that that point being
what from there
is accessible on a quantum
level to explore.
The idea of
data as it exists through time and changing
through time.
The other one is, and this is just
because you brought up LLMs,
the advancement of large language models.
And this is, I think, a really simple
way of describing where we're going with quantum.
One of the things that just came out
since we spoke last is large concept models.
It's another way of thinking. It's it's like
one thing past reasoning
because reasoning is like layered large language models.
Large concept models is I've got a concept
and then I'm going
to AI through it. I'm not even gonna
explain but
you can see down the road. I don't
have time to go into that. But like
what,
you can see down the road is large
probability
models.
Wait
a second.
Now we have within AI language
this way of using quantum
in the Gen AI structure,
large
probability models. Because in and of itself,
we are so so so nascent
with all of this stuff that all we
do is like we focus on a probability.
Right? But once you have multiple probabilities and
you start getting an emergence of data turning
into insights,
if you make a large probability model,
what is that? What does that allow for?
That's one of the things
that we can aim towards.
I have no idea what the hell an
LPM is,
but
there's an idea in your head of what
that could be
of putting multiple probabilities together. And that's kind
of what I was getting at with, like,
tracking two electrons and tracking eight and everything.
What do you get when you get
multiple amounts of probabilities
relating to each other and creating probabilistic,
outcomes and reference points from the past? And
that goes back to the, you know, the
information point.
Can we say, okay, if we take all
the probabilities of what this paper, this burnt
ash piece of paper has,
one of the probabilities
was how it was written out before.
Interesting.
Okay.
Well, I don't know. Have we gone in
deep enough into the rabbit hole? Should we
wrap up and
I think that's pretty good. I think we
I I I think we I think we've
gone deep into the rabbit hole here. Look.
We went around a giant circle and came
out with LPMs. Dudes, we just invented LPMs.
Nice. Yeah. We can always have another discussion
about AI and another, you know, three or
four, five, six months or something about
what continuing
to go on if that's still interesting, Jamie.
You know, it's gonna be a completely different
world by then. So it will be. There
you go. It might be.
We'll have a
we we should have a, did Jamie's predictions
come true
this year?
Next year this time? Yes.
Yes. We see how much of an idiot
Jamie was. But of course, we'll we'll never
try to track my predictions, of course. So
No. You are all knowing. You are all
probabilities at once, mister Artemis.
Yeah. I really I really do wish my
14 year old were here because you can
do 500 digits of pi, and I really
wanna honor pi day. That's awesome.
Oh, he stopped because his friend is a
thousand, and he's like, I can't.
Sometimes it sucks being the dumbest kid in
the smartest room.
Nice.
Alright. Cool. So, Jamie, where can people get
in touch with you, follow you,
websites,
blogs,
social
media, antisocial media. Antisocial medias.
Antimatter
media.
You can you always find me on LinkedIn,
Jamie Schwarz. There's a lovely, smiled beard man
looking at you. I'm on brandtherapy.coach.
You can always talk to my, LLM. There's
a brand therapist on there that's like me
waiting for you.
The new ventures with the the patents are
marked.art
and marked.dj
m r k d
Art m r k d Dj.
And that would be another fun conversation
because we've got a lot of crazy things
happening over the next few quarters.
Okay. Cool. And, Tom?
You can find me on LinkedIn.
You made it longer than usual.
I know. I don't know what to do
about that.
Alright. I am Russ White. You can always
find me here on the hedge at rule
eleven dot tech on LinkedIn,
on x, antisocial
media, LinkedIn, whatever. Don't don't really go there.
I mean, anyway,
we know that we live in an attention
driven economy,
and your time is important to us. And
we just hope we're presenting interesting and good
content for you to listen to. Thank you.
Thank you for listening all the way to
the bitter end of this hedge, and we
will catch you next
time.