1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:03,359 Join us as we gather around the hedge, 2 00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:04,740 where we dig into technology, 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,839 business, and culture with the finest minds in 4 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:08,820 computer networking. 5 00:00:20,654 --> 00:00:21,635 Hello, Tom. 6 00:00:22,254 --> 00:00:23,234 Hello, Russ. 7 00:00:23,695 --> 00:00:24,195 Again. 8 00:00:24,814 --> 00:00:25,314 Again. 9 00:00:25,710 --> 00:00:26,210 We 10 00:00:27,230 --> 00:00:27,730 recorded 11 00:00:28,189 --> 00:00:30,750 an episode earlier today. So so now here 12 00:00:30,750 --> 00:00:31,890 we are in the afternoon, 13 00:00:32,750 --> 00:00:34,989 talking again, and we won't talk about your 14 00:00:34,989 --> 00:00:37,070 plant. I mean, it looks the same, and 15 00:00:37,070 --> 00:00:39,329 we won't talk about your weird ladder thing, 16 00:00:39,645 --> 00:00:41,085 but I will have you read any more 17 00:00:41,085 --> 00:00:42,465 of the books in your background? 18 00:00:43,085 --> 00:00:45,185 In the last five hours now. Yeah. 19 00:00:46,284 --> 00:00:46,784 Slowpoke. 20 00:00:48,924 --> 00:00:50,604 I know. What is up with you? You're 21 00:00:50,604 --> 00:00:52,524 not like come on. You should be able 22 00:00:52,524 --> 00:00:54,125 to read two or three books in five 23 00:00:54,125 --> 00:00:54,570 hours. 24 00:00:54,969 --> 00:00:58,090 I know. You're you're disappointing me, Tom. Alright. 25 00:00:58,090 --> 00:01:00,670 And today, we are joined by Jonathan Mast. 26 00:01:00,890 --> 00:01:03,770 Jonathan, where are you physically? What city, state, 27 00:01:03,770 --> 00:01:04,270 whatever? 28 00:01:04,890 --> 00:01:07,049 I am down in Foley, Alabama, about 10 29 00:01:07,049 --> 00:01:08,510 miles off the Gulf Coast. 30 00:01:10,225 --> 00:01:12,865 Awesome. So I have yeah. I've thought about 31 00:01:12,865 --> 00:01:13,365 moving 32 00:01:14,225 --> 00:01:16,225 to the Gulf Coast in Florida a couple 33 00:01:16,225 --> 00:01:18,784 of times, never did. Ended up moving to 34 00:01:18,784 --> 00:01:19,284 Knoxville. 35 00:01:20,704 --> 00:01:22,625 I like mountains. What can I say? I 36 00:01:22,625 --> 00:01:25,319 like being near the mountains and Beautiful area. 37 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,640 Yeah. Up in the mountains. I keep talking 38 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,400 about we're trying to build a house actually 39 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,420 on in the foothills of the Smokies 40 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,879 on the West Side Of The Smokies. We 41 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,319 we're trying to get a house built out 42 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:35,819 there, 43 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:37,180 which is always 44 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:39,500 today in today's world, 45 00:01:40,004 --> 00:01:41,784 Oh, you wanted two by fours? 46 00:01:42,245 --> 00:01:44,504 Really? Well, good luck with that. 47 00:01:46,885 --> 00:01:48,825 That's pretty much where we are today. 48 00:01:49,844 --> 00:01:52,825 So, Jonathan, let's talk about AI because because 49 00:01:53,380 --> 00:01:55,140 as you said when we were talking before 50 00:01:55,140 --> 00:01:56,120 we started recording, 51 00:01:56,819 --> 00:01:59,299 a lot of people are really well, let's 52 00:01:59,299 --> 00:02:01,700 even not go their start. Let's start with 53 00:02:01,700 --> 00:02:04,020 what's the status. Like, what are we seeing 54 00:02:04,020 --> 00:02:04,520 today? 55 00:02:04,980 --> 00:02:05,880 What's interesting? 56 00:02:06,659 --> 00:02:07,155 What 57 00:02:07,635 --> 00:02:09,574 is going on in the world 58 00:02:10,034 --> 00:02:12,435 of and I should say large language models 59 00:02:12,435 --> 00:02:15,094 specifically because there are other kinds of AI, 60 00:02:15,155 --> 00:02:17,314 and people get them all mixed up, AI 61 00:02:17,314 --> 00:02:19,334 machine learning, large language models. 62 00:02:19,875 --> 00:02:22,194 They're all kinda like subset, supersets of one 63 00:02:22,194 --> 00:02:22,694 another. 64 00:02:23,210 --> 00:02:25,210 So let's let's start there. Maybe that that's 65 00:02:25,210 --> 00:02:26,510 a better place to start. 66 00:02:27,530 --> 00:02:29,530 Well, I I think, you know, we're gonna 67 00:02:29,530 --> 00:02:32,010 continue to see the an incredibly rapid pace 68 00:02:32,010 --> 00:02:33,610 of development in 2025. 69 00:02:33,610 --> 00:02:35,310 There's so much going on. 70 00:02:35,610 --> 00:02:37,210 The probably the biggest thing in the large 71 00:02:37,210 --> 00:02:39,344 language models in the last few weeks has 72 00:02:39,344 --> 00:02:41,685 been the introduction of deep research models. 73 00:02:42,224 --> 00:02:44,305 The ability for instead of just doing a 74 00:02:44,305 --> 00:02:46,144 search and coming back like Google does with 75 00:02:46,144 --> 00:02:47,824 some sites for you to look at or 76 00:02:47,824 --> 00:02:50,224 like perplexity used to where they would look 77 00:02:50,224 --> 00:02:51,584 at those sites for you and give you 78 00:02:51,584 --> 00:02:52,245 an answer, 79 00:02:52,750 --> 00:02:55,069 Now, there's some deep research tools and most 80 00:02:55,069 --> 00:02:57,409 of the major players have them. 81 00:02:57,710 --> 00:03:00,590 And it's really equivalent to like having an 82 00:03:00,590 --> 00:03:02,610 assistant and saying, I need you to spend 83 00:03:02,670 --> 00:03:03,330 the day 84 00:03:03,710 --> 00:03:06,064 looking at these twenty, thirty, 40 websites 85 00:03:06,365 --> 00:03:08,784 and compiling data and putting it all together. 86 00:03:09,485 --> 00:03:11,745 The difference is, is that, you know, ChatGPT 87 00:03:11,965 --> 00:03:13,965 and tools like that are doing that in 88 00:03:13,965 --> 00:03:16,605 five to ten, maybe on the outside fifteen 89 00:03:16,605 --> 00:03:17,105 minutes. 90 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,800 And you're getting back, anywhere from a five 91 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,419 to 20 page report 92 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:22,939 about all that information. 93 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,639 It's just truly something I don't think we've 94 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,480 ever had the ability to do before, and 95 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,159 I'm sure it's one of many things like 96 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:30,620 that we're gonna see this year. 97 00:03:31,705 --> 00:03:33,564 Interesting. So if that's a new development, 98 00:03:34,025 --> 00:03:35,805 so what has been happening 99 00:03:36,344 --> 00:03:39,224 as far as LLMs go? Are we seeing 100 00:03:39,224 --> 00:03:41,385 a lot of people using LLMs in their 101 00:03:41,385 --> 00:03:42,284 daily work? 102 00:03:42,745 --> 00:03:43,965 Is that, like, a thing? 103 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,400 The overall, I think adoption rate is still 104 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,139 pretty low. I think it's definitely improving. 105 00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:51,039 But at the end of the year, when 106 00:03:51,039 --> 00:03:52,639 the last stats that I saw and again, 107 00:03:52,639 --> 00:03:54,239 we we know that most stats are made 108 00:03:54,239 --> 00:03:55,680 up, mine are not, but I don't know 109 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,280 if the ones I'm referring to are made 110 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,719 up or not because I I don't have 111 00:03:58,719 --> 00:03:59,539 all the documentation. 112 00:04:00,395 --> 00:04:02,635 But the estimate was that about 15 to 113 00:04:02,635 --> 00:04:03,514 17% 114 00:04:03,514 --> 00:04:06,314 of people in the workforce are actively using 115 00:04:06,314 --> 00:04:07,694 on a regular basis 116 00:04:08,074 --> 00:04:10,254 these LLM tools in their work. 117 00:04:10,794 --> 00:04:12,474 And they defined that at the time by 118 00:04:12,474 --> 00:04:14,314 using it more than like three times a 119 00:04:14,314 --> 00:04:17,029 day. So the real answer is, you know, 120 00:04:17,029 --> 00:04:18,889 I think people are probably playing 121 00:04:19,509 --> 00:04:21,910 with LLMs at this point. They're trying some 122 00:04:21,910 --> 00:04:23,430 things out. But I think it's still a 123 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:25,370 very small percentage of the population 124 00:04:25,750 --> 00:04:28,149 that's actually leveraging them as tools on a 125 00:04:28,149 --> 00:04:29,129 regular basis. 126 00:04:30,384 --> 00:04:32,544 Interesting. Yeah. So three times a day and 127 00:04:32,544 --> 00:04:33,845 you think people are exploring. 128 00:04:34,384 --> 00:04:37,285 I know for me personally, I use LLMs 129 00:04:37,504 --> 00:04:39,204 more the way you're talking about 130 00:04:40,384 --> 00:04:40,884 to 131 00:04:41,824 --> 00:04:43,204 find things quickly 132 00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:46,089 and not even necessarily to summarize 15 or 133 00:04:46,089 --> 00:04:48,810 20 pages, but I usually have very specific 134 00:04:48,810 --> 00:04:49,870 questions like 135 00:04:50,569 --> 00:04:52,669 find me every or find me 136 00:04:53,209 --> 00:04:53,709 everything 137 00:04:54,009 --> 00:04:54,509 about 138 00:04:54,889 --> 00:04:56,350 a particular protocol 139 00:04:57,115 --> 00:04:59,055 Yeah. In these in these five websites 140 00:04:59,355 --> 00:05:00,654 or whatever it is. 141 00:05:01,035 --> 00:05:03,115 Not not that I want the LLM to 142 00:05:03,115 --> 00:05:03,615 actually 143 00:05:04,235 --> 00:05:05,294 do the work 144 00:05:05,595 --> 00:05:08,654 of summarizing for me. I wanted to find 145 00:05:09,870 --> 00:05:12,189 the places where I should look. And I'll 146 00:05:12,189 --> 00:05:13,389 tell you why I use it that way. 147 00:05:13,389 --> 00:05:15,310 You might have something to say about this, 148 00:05:15,310 --> 00:05:17,649 is that I fear a lot with LLMs 149 00:05:18,350 --> 00:05:20,930 that they are in their summarization process, 150 00:05:21,389 --> 00:05:22,930 they are leaving out 151 00:05:23,384 --> 00:05:25,805 things I would consider it to be important. 152 00:05:26,504 --> 00:05:28,504 And this is this is not LLMs, by 153 00:05:28,504 --> 00:05:29,805 the way. This is 154 00:05:30,185 --> 00:05:33,625 any time I get into summaries, anytime I'm 155 00:05:33,625 --> 00:05:35,464 reading a research paper or something and somebody 156 00:05:35,464 --> 00:05:35,964 says 157 00:05:36,504 --> 00:05:39,230 or or the research paper says, as quoted 158 00:05:39,290 --> 00:05:41,790 in or this person makes that argument, 159 00:05:42,329 --> 00:05:44,329 I'm the kind of person who goes back 160 00:05:44,329 --> 00:05:46,910 and says, no. No. I don't believe you. 161 00:05:46,970 --> 00:05:50,189 I'm gonna go find Sure. The original 162 00:05:50,569 --> 00:05:51,069 document 163 00:05:51,964 --> 00:05:53,985 and see what that author said 164 00:05:54,444 --> 00:05:55,345 for themselves. 165 00:05:56,365 --> 00:05:58,605 I I I I'm I'm thankful that you 166 00:05:58,605 --> 00:06:02,285 summarized for me, but I I'm not gonna 167 00:06:02,285 --> 00:06:04,064 trust that your spin 168 00:06:04,740 --> 00:06:06,740 or your take is the same as what 169 00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:08,579 I read into it or I read out 170 00:06:08,579 --> 00:06:09,160 of it. 171 00:06:09,779 --> 00:06:11,699 So I I don't know. There's there's something 172 00:06:11,699 --> 00:06:13,879 around that that we could probably talk about 173 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:15,399 that might be interesting. 174 00:06:16,019 --> 00:06:18,259 Oh, absolutely. I think, you know, your your 175 00:06:18,259 --> 00:06:20,955 concern there is very well founded because AI 176 00:06:20,955 --> 00:06:23,115 and large language models, in this case, have 177 00:06:23,115 --> 00:06:25,295 been trained on very specific data. 178 00:06:25,834 --> 00:06:29,675 And they're they're taught generically to reply quite 179 00:06:29,675 --> 00:06:31,535 generically to things. And so, 180 00:06:31,915 --> 00:06:33,435 one of the things I would encourage you 181 00:06:33,435 --> 00:06:34,634 to do as you do this, Russ, and 182 00:06:34,634 --> 00:06:36,074 you're probably already doing some of it, but 183 00:06:36,074 --> 00:06:36,449 is to 184 00:06:37,009 --> 00:06:39,569 train train the model that you're using on 185 00:06:39,569 --> 00:06:41,990 the type of responses that you want 186 00:06:42,370 --> 00:06:44,529 and the type of information that you're looking 187 00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:46,610 for so that it can do that. Because 188 00:06:46,610 --> 00:06:49,895 it's a great data analysis model. It's fantastic 189 00:06:50,194 --> 00:06:51,634 at at taking a look at, you know, 190 00:06:51,634 --> 00:06:54,675 reams of data and and analyzing that. But 191 00:06:54,675 --> 00:06:57,335 typically, what we don't do as as users 192 00:06:57,395 --> 00:06:58,375 is we rarely 193 00:06:58,915 --> 00:07:00,514 take the time to go in and say, 194 00:07:00,514 --> 00:07:03,120 alright, here's who I am as an individual. 195 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,620 Here's what I do. Here's where my passions 196 00:07:05,759 --> 00:07:08,160 are. Here's where my interests lie. By the 197 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,980 way, here are my preferences for communication style. 198 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,314 And when we don't do that, it's kinda 199 00:07:14,314 --> 00:07:16,314 like anything else. We get something quite generic 200 00:07:16,314 --> 00:07:17,995 back. And oftentimes, when we do that, we 201 00:07:17,995 --> 00:07:19,514 look at it and we're like, well, that 202 00:07:19,514 --> 00:07:20,335 was unimpressive 203 00:07:21,194 --> 00:07:22,095 because it was. 204 00:07:22,395 --> 00:07:24,555 But if we can take that step to 205 00:07:24,555 --> 00:07:26,955 train the large language models on who we 206 00:07:26,955 --> 00:07:29,330 are, then I really find that they get 207 00:07:29,330 --> 00:07:31,670 a whole new sense of life and value 208 00:07:32,129 --> 00:07:34,050 because they're able to save us a lot 209 00:07:34,050 --> 00:07:37,089 of time by oftentimes finding the relevant stuff 210 00:07:37,089 --> 00:07:38,770 to us so that then I can spend 211 00:07:38,770 --> 00:07:41,170 my time digging into those sections that are 212 00:07:41,170 --> 00:07:43,415 truly relevant to what I wanna learn. 213 00:07:44,035 --> 00:07:45,574 Yeah. And and I think they're also 214 00:07:45,955 --> 00:07:46,855 what I do 215 00:07:47,955 --> 00:07:50,274 think that I find useful sometimes in using 216 00:07:50,274 --> 00:07:51,014 an LLM 217 00:07:51,475 --> 00:07:53,975 is that it also helps me understand 218 00:07:54,569 --> 00:07:56,990 if I'm in a position where I'm arguing 219 00:07:57,050 --> 00:07:59,769 something. Right? Mhmm. Where I'm when I where 220 00:07:59,769 --> 00:08:03,069 I have an opponent per se. Not necessarily. 221 00:08:03,129 --> 00:08:04,589 You know, this sounds very 222 00:08:05,129 --> 00:08:07,289 military or battle, but it's not it's more 223 00:08:07,289 --> 00:08:07,754 like 224 00:08:08,235 --> 00:08:10,314 we should use MPLS. We should use SRV 225 00:08:10,314 --> 00:08:11,774 six. Whatever the question is, 226 00:08:12,074 --> 00:08:14,574 I want to understand the other perspective 227 00:08:15,915 --> 00:08:17,995 because I just want to be able not 228 00:08:17,995 --> 00:08:20,154 only to counter it effectively, but I wanna 229 00:08:20,154 --> 00:08:21,214 make sure I'm right. 230 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,560 I I don't I don't want just my 231 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:24,060 perspective. 232 00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:26,620 So one thing I also fear about LLMs 233 00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:28,860 is I'm gonna use one enough 234 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,079 to train it so well that it tells 235 00:08:31,079 --> 00:08:32,459 me what I want to hear. 236 00:08:32,839 --> 00:08:35,659 And I'm like, I actually don't want that. 237 00:08:36,715 --> 00:08:39,115 Well and and that's a very legitimate fear. 238 00:08:39,115 --> 00:08:41,674 A AI models, large language models are generally 239 00:08:41,674 --> 00:08:44,495 taught to be pleasant towards you. And, 240 00:08:44,955 --> 00:08:47,034 you know, we've all read these studies that 241 00:08:47,034 --> 00:08:49,320 I got the LLM to admit that it's 242 00:08:49,399 --> 00:08:50,299 x, y, or 243 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,279 z. Well, the problem is with any of 244 00:08:52,279 --> 00:08:54,519 those, if you push hard enough because it 245 00:08:54,519 --> 00:08:56,840 is designed to be agreeable, at some point, 246 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,759 it will decide it's not worth arguing with 247 00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:01,179 you, not that it's sentient, but it's essentially 248 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:02,600 not worth it. It's not going to win. 249 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,440 And it'll go, okay, you're right. I'm a 250 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:04,940 Nazi 251 00:09:05,475 --> 00:09:07,315 Because you kept asking it if it was. 252 00:09:07,315 --> 00:09:09,954 And it just finally said, Yes, I'm a 253 00:09:09,954 --> 00:09:10,454 Nazi. 254 00:09:11,315 --> 00:09:12,855 And that's a danger because 255 00:09:13,315 --> 00:09:15,394 not that it happens, but that people aren't 256 00:09:15,394 --> 00:09:16,855 aware that it can happen. 257 00:09:17,235 --> 00:09:18,889 And therefore, as a result of that, I 258 00:09:18,889 --> 00:09:21,049 think that we, as users, just need to 259 00:09:21,049 --> 00:09:21,950 be more informed 260 00:09:22,409 --> 00:09:23,929 and understand that, you know, if I wanted 261 00:09:23,929 --> 00:09:25,710 to admit that it's a pink elephant, 262 00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:28,669 I can essentially berate it to the point 263 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:30,409 that it gives up and says, you're right, 264 00:09:30,409 --> 00:09:31,950 Jonathan. I'm a pink elephant. 265 00:09:32,595 --> 00:09:34,674 Yeah. Yeah. This is by the way, this 266 00:09:34,674 --> 00:09:36,514 is not just true of LLMs. We've put 267 00:09:36,514 --> 00:09:37,815 a lot of this on LLMs 268 00:09:38,434 --> 00:09:40,754 and AI stuff. This is true of almost 269 00:09:40,754 --> 00:09:43,254 any text. There's a saying in the philosophical 270 00:09:43,394 --> 00:09:46,355 world that I can if I torture a 271 00:09:46,355 --> 00:09:49,110 text long enough, I can I can get 272 00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:51,190 it to confess to anything I want it 273 00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:53,589 to? And that's just an absolute I can 274 00:09:53,589 --> 00:09:54,409 read Plato. 275 00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:56,470 I can read I don't know. I can 276 00:09:56,470 --> 00:09:58,089 read Calvin. I can read 277 00:09:58,549 --> 00:10:00,089 Aristotle or or Augustine, 278 00:10:00,834 --> 00:10:02,595 and I can make them so I can 279 00:10:02,595 --> 00:10:05,014 find things and put things together 280 00:10:05,475 --> 00:10:07,014 to make them say something 281 00:10:07,634 --> 00:10:09,634 I want them to say to support my 282 00:10:09,634 --> 00:10:12,434 point of view. And that's just a fact 283 00:10:12,434 --> 00:10:13,254 of exegesis 284 00:10:14,034 --> 00:10:15,975 and the way we approach a text. 285 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:18,320 So when I approach text, I always approach 286 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,179 text from what I call the virtue hermeneutic, 287 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:21,920 which I don't know if that's gonna, like, 288 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,080 freak everybody out, but that's that's what it 289 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,179 is. I'm I'm a big Aristotelian 290 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,679 virtue ethic person. That's what I'm really strong 291 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:30,740 into, virtue ethics. 292 00:10:31,174 --> 00:10:33,014 And so when I approach a text, I 293 00:10:33,014 --> 00:10:33,514 approach 294 00:10:33,975 --> 00:10:35,254 it from what I consider to be a 295 00:10:35,254 --> 00:10:36,475 virtue hermeneutic. 296 00:10:37,254 --> 00:10:39,095 I'm trying to understand what the author is 297 00:10:39,095 --> 00:10:41,495 saying. I'm not trying to understand what I 298 00:10:41,495 --> 00:10:43,500 want to say. I'm not trying to 299 00:10:43,980 --> 00:10:46,159 get support for my argument. 300 00:10:47,019 --> 00:10:49,279 I'm trying to find what did Aristotle 301 00:10:49,659 --> 00:10:51,679 actually mean to say 302 00:10:52,059 --> 00:10:54,559 at this point on this topic. 303 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:56,320 I'm seeking Aristotle's 304 00:10:57,154 --> 00:10:58,535 perspective, not mine. 305 00:10:59,475 --> 00:11:00,375 So I think 306 00:11:00,675 --> 00:11:03,315 we need to find discipline. And by the 307 00:11:03,315 --> 00:11:05,475 way, a lot of readers don't have that 308 00:11:05,475 --> 00:11:05,975 discipline. 309 00:11:06,514 --> 00:11:08,675 A ton Oh, I agree. Tons of readers 310 00:11:08,675 --> 00:11:09,654 don't have that discipline. 311 00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:11,929 And we need to come to the point 312 00:11:11,929 --> 00:11:13,950 where we have that discipline with LLMs. 313 00:11:14,490 --> 00:11:16,190 Perhaps that's part of 314 00:11:17,129 --> 00:11:20,350 we need to seek data or seek information 315 00:11:21,289 --> 00:11:23,389 rather than seeking support 316 00:11:24,009 --> 00:11:24,830 as it were. 317 00:11:26,054 --> 00:11:28,294 Well, I I think you've again, you've stumbled 318 00:11:28,294 --> 00:11:30,134 on to some probably not stumbled. That's not 319 00:11:30,134 --> 00:11:31,975 fair to say, Russ. But you you're pointing 320 00:11:31,975 --> 00:11:33,815 out something that's so accurate. Most of us 321 00:11:33,815 --> 00:11:35,514 are are looking for validation. 322 00:11:36,215 --> 00:11:38,375 We're not really looking for truth, and I 323 00:11:38,375 --> 00:11:39,915 think that's a much larger 324 00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:42,629 discussion that we have. But, yeah, I I 325 00:11:42,629 --> 00:11:45,350 would agree though that the the average person, 326 00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:47,289 if that average person exists, 327 00:11:47,909 --> 00:11:50,570 is definitely looking for that validation. 328 00:11:51,429 --> 00:11:53,429 We're not looking to be challenged. In fact, 329 00:11:53,429 --> 00:11:55,375 it's one of the things that I've been 330 00:11:55,375 --> 00:11:57,214 teaching in a lot of my masterminds recently 331 00:11:57,214 --> 00:11:59,714 that is, in my mind, is incredibly enjoyable, 332 00:12:00,095 --> 00:12:01,875 which is telling the LLM, 333 00:12:02,495 --> 00:12:04,735 do not be agreeable with me for the 334 00:12:04,735 --> 00:12:05,714 sake of agreeing. 335 00:12:06,414 --> 00:12:08,514 Challenge me, push me, 336 00:12:08,894 --> 00:12:10,034 make me better, 337 00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:11,600 help me 338 00:12:12,059 --> 00:12:13,519 improve my perspectives, 339 00:12:14,539 --> 00:12:16,379 don't agree with me for the sake of 340 00:12:16,379 --> 00:12:19,179 doing it. And it really does change the 341 00:12:19,179 --> 00:12:20,779 way When you instruct it to do that, 342 00:12:20,779 --> 00:12:22,879 it really does change how it responds. 343 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:24,879 It doesn't become rude, 344 00:12:25,205 --> 00:12:27,945 but it it becomes almost a sparring partner, 345 00:12:28,085 --> 00:12:31,284 a verbal sparring partner. And in personally, I 346 00:12:31,284 --> 00:12:33,625 find that a lot more enjoyable. Yeah. 347 00:12:34,404 --> 00:12:37,205 So is there any value in doing something 348 00:12:37,205 --> 00:12:38,985 like having multiple accounts 349 00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:41,129 that you 350 00:12:41,909 --> 00:12:42,570 have tuned 351 00:12:43,589 --> 00:12:45,509 to believe in two different I I don't 352 00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:47,110 know. This is like a thing I've thought 353 00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:49,429 about. I've never done it. Is there any 354 00:12:49,429 --> 00:12:52,169 value in having multiple accounts that say, 355 00:12:52,549 --> 00:12:54,169 you know, I believe x 356 00:12:54,495 --> 00:12:56,414 strongly, and I want you to support that 357 00:12:56,414 --> 00:12:58,495 over time. Or the other account, you say, 358 00:12:58,495 --> 00:13:01,375 I believe y strongly, and I want so 359 00:13:01,375 --> 00:13:04,254 I actually have the two perspectives coming at 360 00:13:04,254 --> 00:13:04,754 me 361 00:13:05,215 --> 00:13:08,014 from the two different account models. I I 362 00:13:08,014 --> 00:13:10,115 don't know if that works because I'm afraid 363 00:13:10,379 --> 00:13:11,120 there's still 364 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:12,480 you still have 365 00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:15,040 you still have the forgotten middle. 366 00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,519 You're still leaving the world. It's an interesting 367 00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:19,759 concept. I think, you know, ChatCPT 368 00:13:20,299 --> 00:13:23,100 is really the only large language model currently 369 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:24,799 that purports to have memory. 370 00:13:25,465 --> 00:13:27,065 And I admit I have mine turned off 371 00:13:27,065 --> 00:13:29,065 because I do lots of client work, and 372 00:13:29,065 --> 00:13:32,345 I don't want client work filtering across clients. 373 00:13:32,345 --> 00:13:33,884 So I I've turned that off. 374 00:13:34,504 --> 00:13:36,745 My choice, not something NSA recommend, but something 375 00:13:36,745 --> 00:13:38,205 that I've chosen to do. 376 00:13:38,664 --> 00:13:40,504 I find that because I don't have memory 377 00:13:40,504 --> 00:13:44,019 on, I can really get a fairly neutral 378 00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:46,959 position with AI starting as a starting point 379 00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:49,360 from any place I want. And that is 380 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,679 as simple as starting a new conversation because 381 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,120 it doesn't remember things from one conversation to 382 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:55,779 the other. 383 00:13:56,125 --> 00:13:58,285 It's kinda like texting. If if you and 384 00:13:58,285 --> 00:14:00,524 I are texting together and I'm texting my 385 00:14:00,524 --> 00:14:02,845 wife, you're not gonna see the text messages 386 00:14:02,845 --> 00:14:04,285 to my wife and she's not gonna see 387 00:14:04,285 --> 00:14:06,125 the text messages to you because they're in 388 00:14:06,125 --> 00:14:06,945 different conversations. 389 00:14:08,045 --> 00:14:10,540 And when you don't have memory enabled, I 390 00:14:10,540 --> 00:14:12,620 find that that works really well and it 391 00:14:12,620 --> 00:14:13,679 does not remember, 392 00:14:14,379 --> 00:14:16,540 really anything that's going on as a result 393 00:14:16,540 --> 00:14:18,299 of that. So you're kinda starting off in 394 00:14:18,299 --> 00:14:19,759 that natural or neutral 395 00:14:20,139 --> 00:14:20,639 middle. 396 00:14:21,615 --> 00:14:24,095 So we've we've talked to some about some 397 00:14:24,095 --> 00:14:27,075 good points about philosophy and stuff. What Jonathan, 398 00:14:27,134 --> 00:14:28,894 what in the people that you've worked with, 399 00:14:28,894 --> 00:14:30,654 have you noticed any trends? Like, what are 400 00:14:30,654 --> 00:14:32,415 the types of things that people are most 401 00:14:32,415 --> 00:14:34,595 commonly using the tools for right now? 402 00:14:35,649 --> 00:14:37,330 Well, again, I think it's a relatively small 403 00:14:37,330 --> 00:14:39,730 percentage of people that are. Those that are 404 00:14:39,730 --> 00:14:41,410 actively using them, I find one of the 405 00:14:41,410 --> 00:14:43,910 most common things they're using it for is 406 00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:47,365 literally for, like, decision trees and brain storming 407 00:14:47,904 --> 00:14:50,324 and, you know, challenging ideas that, 408 00:14:50,784 --> 00:14:52,784 that type of thing. I'd say the second 409 00:14:52,784 --> 00:14:54,464 most common thing I see is something as 410 00:14:54,464 --> 00:14:56,865 simple as writing emails. It is really good 411 00:14:56,865 --> 00:14:58,324 at helping out with communication, 412 00:14:58,944 --> 00:15:01,904 whether that's creating an SOP, whether that's writing 413 00:15:01,904 --> 00:15:02,565 an email. 414 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:05,360 Regardless of our role in an organization, I 415 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,279 think we've all had those situations when we 416 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:09,440 need to write an email that we maybe 417 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,600 need to establish some boundaries in or we 418 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:12,899 need to be able to respond 419 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:14,720 in a way that isn't the way we 420 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,740 emotionally want to respond to things. 421 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,334 Or maybe, you know, I can think of 422 00:15:19,334 --> 00:15:20,615 my son, maybe we need to be a 423 00:15:20,615 --> 00:15:22,774 bit more emotional than we are in in 424 00:15:22,774 --> 00:15:25,894 that way. And AI does a really good 425 00:15:25,894 --> 00:15:29,034 job of helping do that very, very quickly. 426 00:15:29,654 --> 00:15:32,154 While it's not emotionally intelligent, it can mimic 427 00:15:32,350 --> 00:15:34,750 people and things very, very quickly. And so 428 00:15:34,750 --> 00:15:36,269 I think that's those are probably some of 429 00:15:36,269 --> 00:15:38,509 the the biggest things. The other things that 430 00:15:38,509 --> 00:15:39,950 at least, you know, I see from the 431 00:15:39,950 --> 00:15:41,710 people that I work with that are super 432 00:15:41,710 --> 00:15:42,210 popular, 433 00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:45,309 people love creating music with AI, and they 434 00:15:45,309 --> 00:15:47,865 love creating images, and they love creating videos. 435 00:15:48,184 --> 00:15:50,584 Those are all very fun things, so to 436 00:15:50,584 --> 00:15:53,144 speak, to do with AI. And as we 437 00:15:53,144 --> 00:15:54,825 look at the general public, I think those 438 00:15:54,825 --> 00:15:56,845 are probably some of the biggest areas. 439 00:15:58,184 --> 00:15:59,464 Again, a lot of it depends on the 440 00:15:59,464 --> 00:16:01,304 individual and what they're interested in. But if 441 00:16:01,304 --> 00:16:02,924 we were if we were going to 442 00:16:03,309 --> 00:16:05,230 take a guess on the entire population, I'd 443 00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:07,389 say those are some of the most common 444 00:16:07,389 --> 00:16:08,290 and most popular. 445 00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:10,610 So 446 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:12,529 in technology, 447 00:16:12,990 --> 00:16:16,345 I wouldn't think well, maybe it is. Actually, 448 00:16:16,345 --> 00:16:18,024 maybe a really good use that I've never 449 00:16:18,024 --> 00:16:18,924 tried it for 450 00:16:19,384 --> 00:16:20,445 is building 451 00:16:22,105 --> 00:16:22,605 graphics 452 00:16:23,384 --> 00:16:24,285 of ideas. 453 00:16:25,065 --> 00:16:26,125 Like, I have 454 00:16:26,665 --> 00:16:27,165 these 455 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,399 20 data points I've measured or these 5,000 456 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:33,019 data points. Please 457 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:35,019 draw me draw me 458 00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:35,899 a, 459 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,019 you know, 460 00:16:37,879 --> 00:16:39,579 a visual of this data. 461 00:16:40,039 --> 00:16:41,720 Because because, you know, you play with line 462 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,419 charts and graph charts and 463 00:16:43,825 --> 00:16:45,845 bar charts and blah dee da dee da, 464 00:16:45,904 --> 00:16:47,605 but you don't ever really know 465 00:16:47,985 --> 00:16:48,485 what 466 00:16:48,865 --> 00:16:50,084 is the right thing 467 00:16:50,865 --> 00:16:51,524 to use. 468 00:16:51,825 --> 00:16:53,825 Is that another place? Because I've never tried 469 00:16:53,825 --> 00:16:55,445 it. Have you ever tried it? Does it 470 00:16:55,709 --> 00:16:57,470 does it work? Is it, like, something that 471 00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:59,389 would be useful? I I mean yeah. I 472 00:16:59,389 --> 00:17:00,529 think, you know, AI 473 00:17:01,069 --> 00:17:01,569 visualizing 474 00:17:01,870 --> 00:17:04,029 data, I think, is is a just a 475 00:17:04,029 --> 00:17:05,169 tremendous opportunity 476 00:17:05,789 --> 00:17:07,630 with inside of AI to be able to 477 00:17:07,630 --> 00:17:09,789 do some just amazing things and come up 478 00:17:09,789 --> 00:17:10,450 with ideas 479 00:17:11,025 --> 00:17:13,664 and likely connections that we haven't thought of 480 00:17:13,664 --> 00:17:14,484 just because 481 00:17:14,785 --> 00:17:16,865 we maybe haven't visualized the data in the 482 00:17:16,865 --> 00:17:17,765 same capacity. 483 00:17:18,545 --> 00:17:21,184 Yeah. I but but yeah. Go ahead. I 484 00:17:21,184 --> 00:17:22,865 think it you do have to treat it 485 00:17:22,865 --> 00:17:24,325 though as a very raw 486 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:27,059 input. Like I was I was doing some 487 00:17:27,059 --> 00:17:28,660 home automation stuff the other day and I 488 00:17:28,660 --> 00:17:29,059 was, 489 00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:31,779 I was using chat gpt and I asked 490 00:17:31,779 --> 00:17:33,299 some question about a circuit I was working 491 00:17:33,299 --> 00:17:34,980 on and it said, would you like me 492 00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:36,740 to draw a circuit diagram? I'm like, oh, 493 00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:39,265 sure. I wonder what'll happen. And, I was 494 00:17:39,265 --> 00:17:41,904 expecting something and got something completely different. It 495 00:17:41,904 --> 00:17:43,605 looked like it was trying to draw, 496 00:17:43,904 --> 00:17:46,464 like, illustrations of the components, not like a 497 00:17:46,464 --> 00:17:47,285 circuit diagram. 498 00:17:47,664 --> 00:17:49,984 And also, it was hilarious. I should have 499 00:17:49,984 --> 00:17:52,224 saved it. It was hilariously bad. Like, there 500 00:17:52,224 --> 00:17:53,980 was a picture of a switch, and I 501 00:17:53,980 --> 00:17:56,220 was like, what is this mangled thing? It 502 00:17:56,220 --> 00:17:57,659 was like sort of the equivalent, you know, 503 00:17:57,659 --> 00:17:59,099 when you see people's hands in AI and 504 00:17:59,099 --> 00:18:01,099 there's like six fingers, how, like, disturbing that 505 00:18:01,099 --> 00:18:02,619 is. It was like that except for an 506 00:18:02,619 --> 00:18:05,994 electronic component, which, you know, very entertaining, but 507 00:18:05,994 --> 00:18:07,515 did not give me any help at all. 508 00:18:07,515 --> 00:18:08,714 Like, I will draw this on a piece 509 00:18:08,714 --> 00:18:09,994 of paper. You don't know what you're talking 510 00:18:09,994 --> 00:18:10,494 about. 511 00:18:11,434 --> 00:18:14,154 But so so I wonder, like, you know, 512 00:18:14,154 --> 00:18:15,434 if you could try to get it to 513 00:18:15,434 --> 00:18:16,255 plot data, 514 00:18:17,194 --> 00:18:18,954 what happens there? I I also have never 515 00:18:18,954 --> 00:18:21,619 tried it. If it it's an interesting experiment. 516 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,519 If we haven't tried it, maybe we should 517 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:24,259 all go 518 00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:26,400 try giving it giving it data and see 519 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,759 what it does because, I mean, I don't 520 00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:30,640 know. Maybe it doesn't maybe not enough people 521 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:31,940 have tried to train it 522 00:18:32,865 --> 00:18:34,625 because it because it does rely on people 523 00:18:34,625 --> 00:18:37,184 to train it. So yeah. Very Yes. It's 524 00:18:37,184 --> 00:18:39,025 not something that I've tried. I've run into 525 00:18:39,025 --> 00:18:41,105 what you've mentioned before where what it came 526 00:18:41,105 --> 00:18:42,785 up with is akin to a a hand 527 00:18:42,785 --> 00:18:43,845 with 12 fingers. 528 00:18:45,390 --> 00:18:46,910 Definitely, I think that's an area that we'll 529 00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:49,170 see improvement on over the next couple years. 530 00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:54,289 Yeah. Very, very interesting. So okay. So, 531 00:18:55,630 --> 00:18:57,710 again, going back to what people are using 532 00:18:57,710 --> 00:18:58,450 it for, 533 00:18:59,054 --> 00:19:01,794 again, for me, it's much more about 534 00:19:03,294 --> 00:19:04,914 quickly finding data, 535 00:19:05,534 --> 00:19:08,974 finding contrary views, finding places to go search 536 00:19:08,974 --> 00:19:09,714 for stuff. 537 00:19:10,095 --> 00:19:12,254 And you're saying that people use it a 538 00:19:12,254 --> 00:19:13,714 lot for doing emails, 539 00:19:14,109 --> 00:19:14,849 for emotional, 540 00:19:15,389 --> 00:19:17,630 to make sure the emotional quality of the 541 00:19:17,630 --> 00:19:19,869 email is good. I mean, I can actually 542 00:19:19,869 --> 00:19:21,490 see that from a tone perspective. 543 00:19:22,349 --> 00:19:24,609 Actually, Grammarly does this. If you have Grammarly 544 00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:27,115 on your system, it does this kind of 545 00:19:27,434 --> 00:19:28,714 I don't know if it's better or worse 546 00:19:28,714 --> 00:19:30,555 than chat g p t edit, but it'll 547 00:19:30,555 --> 00:19:33,035 say, if you're really gonna send this to 548 00:19:33,035 --> 00:19:35,115 your manager, you might wanna look for another 549 00:19:35,115 --> 00:19:35,615 job. 550 00:19:37,355 --> 00:19:37,855 Interesting. 551 00:19:38,875 --> 00:19:40,714 You know? It doesn't literally say, but that 552 00:19:40,795 --> 00:19:41,970 but that's kind of like, 553 00:19:42,450 --> 00:19:44,549 your tone is really not good here. 554 00:19:45,169 --> 00:19:46,309 Please try again. 555 00:19:46,609 --> 00:19:49,349 You know, or suggestions for tone changing 556 00:19:49,890 --> 00:19:50,710 type of things. 557 00:19:51,089 --> 00:19:53,990 So I think that is an interesting place. 558 00:19:54,984 --> 00:19:57,144 Are you seeing a lot of coders use 559 00:19:57,144 --> 00:19:59,005 it? Of course, that's the critical 560 00:20:00,424 --> 00:20:02,924 killer question everybody wants to know, 561 00:20:03,304 --> 00:20:04,204 is AI 562 00:20:04,744 --> 00:20:07,164 deeply being deeply used for 563 00:20:07,625 --> 00:20:08,125 coding? 564 00:20:08,690 --> 00:20:10,609 Is that something you see there? Circles that 565 00:20:10,609 --> 00:20:12,609 I yeah. In the circles I'm in, yes. 566 00:20:12,609 --> 00:20:14,150 I'm seeing it a lot, 567 00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:15,750 because 568 00:20:16,690 --> 00:20:18,549 it can do a lot of the mundane 569 00:20:18,690 --> 00:20:20,789 aspects of programming really quickly. 570 00:20:22,144 --> 00:20:23,664 There are certainly people that, you know, if 571 00:20:23,664 --> 00:20:25,504 you're not a programmer, I don't think that 572 00:20:25,504 --> 00:20:27,365 AI is going to make you a programmer. 573 00:20:28,065 --> 00:20:30,224 But if you are a programmer, I believe 574 00:20:30,224 --> 00:20:33,204 that AI can amplify that skill and experience 575 00:20:34,384 --> 00:20:36,724 and can really do some amazing things. 576 00:20:37,549 --> 00:20:39,230 So I think that's probably the the thing 577 00:20:39,230 --> 00:20:40,529 that I'm seeing. I'm seeing 578 00:20:41,230 --> 00:20:43,890 people that are already proficient at a task 579 00:20:44,029 --> 00:20:45,169 that have skills 580 00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:49,169 are leveraging it really well. People without skills 581 00:20:49,230 --> 00:20:51,710 are are playing around with things and maybe 582 00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:52,849 doing something cute, 583 00:20:53,545 --> 00:20:55,565 but rarely incredibly useful. 584 00:20:56,265 --> 00:20:57,785 So so that brings me to my next 585 00:20:57,785 --> 00:20:59,625 question, which is really where we started this. 586 00:20:59,625 --> 00:21:01,545 Didn't really start this, but where we started 587 00:21:01,545 --> 00:21:04,184 emailing back and forth on this is what 588 00:21:04,184 --> 00:21:06,204 is the impact on jobs? 589 00:21:07,180 --> 00:21:10,700 Is it making people more efficient to the 590 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:11,200 point 591 00:21:11,980 --> 00:21:14,460 that we need fewer people to do certain 592 00:21:14,460 --> 00:21:14,960 things? 593 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:18,220 Is it like, what is the interaction here? 594 00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:20,664 And I have one very specific question, but 595 00:21:20,664 --> 00:21:22,265 I wanna get your reaction or the your 596 00:21:22,265 --> 00:21:23,484 thoughts on that first. 597 00:21:24,904 --> 00:21:26,285 More jobs, less jobs, 598 00:21:26,664 --> 00:21:28,984 causing lots of problems, like, what is going 599 00:21:28,984 --> 00:21:31,464 on with that that part of the whole 600 00:21:31,464 --> 00:21:32,285 AI equation? 601 00:21:32,980 --> 00:21:34,659 I don't think at the moment we're seeing 602 00:21:34,659 --> 00:21:37,059 much impact. There are definitely some new stories 603 00:21:37,059 --> 00:21:38,919 that are making it. And I think, ultimately, 604 00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:40,599 like any new transformational 605 00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:43,139 technology, we're going to see some people that 606 00:21:43,139 --> 00:21:43,799 are displaced, 607 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:46,335 but they're gonna be displaced not by the 608 00:21:46,494 --> 00:21:48,255 technology so much as they're gonna be displaced 609 00:21:48,255 --> 00:21:49,774 by other people using it. So let's take 610 00:21:49,774 --> 00:21:51,394 a look at coders as an example. 611 00:21:51,934 --> 00:21:53,694 Will there be some coders that lose their 612 00:21:53,694 --> 00:21:54,755 job? Absolutely. 613 00:21:55,375 --> 00:21:57,615 They're not gonna be the expert coders or 614 00:21:57,615 --> 00:21:59,075 even the proficient coders. 615 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,039 They're gonna be likely entry level coders that 616 00:22:02,039 --> 00:22:03,720 now AI can do a lot of that 617 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,519 entry level work. And so they're they're simply 618 00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:08,279 not going to be needed if they can't 619 00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:08,779 learn 620 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,340 how to use that and leverage that effectively. 621 00:22:12,184 --> 00:22:15,065 So I think ultimately though, you know, as 622 00:22:15,065 --> 00:22:17,304 with any technology that we've seen, we're going 623 00:22:17,304 --> 00:22:18,765 to see more opportunities 624 00:22:19,144 --> 00:22:21,785 exist than what did prior to this. You 625 00:22:21,785 --> 00:22:23,625 know, we can look even in the computing 626 00:22:23,625 --> 00:22:24,125 world. 627 00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:26,180 I'm old enough to remember that when I 628 00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:28,259 was getting started in the workforce, PCs were 629 00:22:28,259 --> 00:22:29,859 being put on desks at that point in 630 00:22:29,859 --> 00:22:31,779 time. And there were plenty of people like, 631 00:22:31,779 --> 00:22:33,619 I'm not giving up my typewriter. I'm not 632 00:22:33,619 --> 00:22:35,220 giving up my adding machine. I mean, my 633 00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:36,980 abacus said, Just, we're not going to do 634 00:22:36,980 --> 00:22:39,539 that. And for a few years, that was 635 00:22:39,539 --> 00:22:40,039 okay. 636 00:22:41,105 --> 00:22:43,424 But after a bit of time, what happened 637 00:22:43,424 --> 00:22:44,164 was that 638 00:22:45,264 --> 00:22:46,644 those people had to 639 00:22:47,024 --> 00:22:47,524 change 640 00:22:47,904 --> 00:22:49,504 or they were going to lose their job 641 00:22:49,504 --> 00:22:50,804 to somebody else because 642 00:22:51,585 --> 00:22:53,440 that typist that was doing a hundred words 643 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,440 a minute on the mechanical typewriter could do 644 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,240 120 to 130 words a minute on a 645 00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:58,899 word processor. 646 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:02,079 That typist that was doing 50 words might 647 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:03,440 have been able to do 80 words on 648 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,339 a word processor. 649 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,214 And so it closed the gap for a 650 00:23:07,214 --> 00:23:09,134 period of time. But then when those that 651 00:23:09,134 --> 00:23:12,095 were proficient embraced it, again, things took off 652 00:23:12,095 --> 00:23:13,794 and worked super well for everybody. 653 00:23:14,815 --> 00:23:15,315 Interesting. 654 00:23:16,335 --> 00:23:18,815 So I guess another question I have here 655 00:23:18,815 --> 00:23:21,710 is, is there any fear that it's knocking 656 00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:24,130 the bottom rungs out of the job market? 657 00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:27,409 Like, new coders come in, 658 00:23:28,109 --> 00:23:28,609 and 659 00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:30,369 there's really 660 00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:33,169 I worry sometimes that there's not a place 661 00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:35,089 for new coders to start 662 00:23:35,924 --> 00:23:38,565 because all the basic stuff is being done 663 00:23:38,565 --> 00:23:39,464 by AI. 664 00:23:40,005 --> 00:23:41,784 Is that something that is 665 00:23:42,644 --> 00:23:44,964 problematic? Is that something anybody's thought about, or 666 00:23:44,964 --> 00:23:45,865 is that, like, 667 00:23:46,244 --> 00:23:47,304 totally unfounded? 668 00:23:48,289 --> 00:23:50,130 I think we're gonna see a difference. I 669 00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:51,890 think it's a very valid point, but I 670 00:23:51,890 --> 00:23:54,369 think we're gonna see a difference in what 671 00:23:54,369 --> 00:23:56,549 that entry level position looks like. 672 00:23:57,250 --> 00:23:58,690 In in you know, I mean, look at 673 00:23:58,690 --> 00:24:00,150 it in from a network engineering 674 00:24:00,535 --> 00:24:01,914 perspective. I mean, we we have 675 00:24:02,295 --> 00:24:05,015 various levels of proficiency and skill and all 676 00:24:05,015 --> 00:24:08,535 that, but there are still people doing lots 677 00:24:08,535 --> 00:24:10,694 of different jobs. And and here's, I guess, 678 00:24:10,694 --> 00:24:11,994 where the key is to me. 679 00:24:12,295 --> 00:24:14,714 I think that we're going to find that 680 00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:17,990 you're going to have new jobs that didn't 681 00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:20,650 exist and new opportunities that didn't exist 682 00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:21,529 prior. 683 00:24:21,910 --> 00:24:23,750 So in the programming world, are are there 684 00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:25,289 gonna be some jobs lost 685 00:24:25,670 --> 00:24:26,789 100%? 686 00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:27,930 There will be. Absolutely. 687 00:24:28,515 --> 00:24:30,035 Do I believe at the end of the 688 00:24:30,035 --> 00:24:32,674 day that most programmers will be displaced? No. 689 00:24:32,674 --> 00:24:34,994 I don't. I think it'll probably follow a 690 00:24:34,994 --> 00:24:37,654 pretty typical eighty twenty die you know, paradigm 691 00:24:38,035 --> 00:24:40,195 that 80 of the the coders are gonna 692 00:24:40,195 --> 00:24:43,049 keep their jobs and 20% are probably gonna 693 00:24:43,049 --> 00:24:43,950 lose their jobs. 694 00:24:44,410 --> 00:24:46,490 But I do think that initial, that entry 695 00:24:46,490 --> 00:24:47,390 level position 696 00:24:47,769 --> 00:24:50,509 is absolutely gonna change as far as responsibilities 697 00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:54,515 and skills needed to get into that. Because 698 00:24:54,515 --> 00:24:56,595 the new the new up and comers in 699 00:24:56,595 --> 00:24:58,755 that field that are gonna become newbies there, 700 00:24:58,755 --> 00:25:00,914 they're gonna be learning with AI tools to 701 00:25:00,914 --> 00:25:01,654 start with. 702 00:25:03,234 --> 00:25:06,115 And hopefully, they don't treat the AI as 703 00:25:06,115 --> 00:25:06,774 a crutch. 704 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,640 Well, if they do, they're not gonna be 705 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,640 able to very long because those that those 706 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,559 that are excellent at it will be using 707 00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:14,539 it as a tool 708 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:15,900 instead of a crutch. 709 00:25:16,279 --> 00:25:17,960 And those that use it as a crutch 710 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,880 are just gonna, in my opinion, at least, 711 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,259 are gonna get washed out. 712 00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:22,059 Okay. 713 00:25:22,605 --> 00:25:24,684 That's interesting. Because this also goes to what 714 00:25:24,684 --> 00:25:26,545 I call the more the the moral hazard. 715 00:25:26,605 --> 00:25:29,244 Right? You give people seat belts, they drive 716 00:25:29,244 --> 00:25:29,744 faster 717 00:25:30,204 --> 00:25:32,765 because now they feel safe. Right? And so 718 00:25:32,765 --> 00:25:35,404 there's always a moral hazard. You give people 719 00:25:35,404 --> 00:25:37,184 airbags, they drive even faster. 720 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:40,019 So there's always a moral hazard here that 721 00:25:40,019 --> 00:25:41,559 when you give people tools, 722 00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:44,900 they shape their lives to the tools. And 723 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,000 and I I don't wanna be like, 724 00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:50,039 they take risk or they become lazy. 725 00:25:51,345 --> 00:25:54,144 And And and there is no doubt some 726 00:25:54,144 --> 00:25:56,144 people will do that, and those will be 727 00:25:56,144 --> 00:25:57,585 the people in my mind that are gonna 728 00:25:57,585 --> 00:25:58,404 be displaced 729 00:25:59,105 --> 00:26:00,144 because that's 730 00:26:00,944 --> 00:26:02,544 you know, I I I will compare it 731 00:26:02,544 --> 00:26:04,625 to just recently. Our neighbors had a new 732 00:26:04,625 --> 00:26:05,549 roof put on. 733 00:26:05,950 --> 00:26:07,309 And I'm not a roofer. I don't know 734 00:26:07,309 --> 00:26:08,990 a lot about it, but I remember watching 735 00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:10,769 roofs go on decades ago. 736 00:26:11,150 --> 00:26:13,470 And, you know, it took men to pick 737 00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:15,549 up those shingles and would carry them up 738 00:26:15,549 --> 00:26:17,470 on, and they had nails and hammers, and 739 00:26:17,470 --> 00:26:19,150 they would go back and forth. And it 740 00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:21,009 was an arduous process. 741 00:26:21,765 --> 00:26:23,125 My neighbor who got a roof put on 742 00:26:23,125 --> 00:26:25,445 didn't have to carry and his contractors didn't 743 00:26:25,445 --> 00:26:27,285 carry any shingles to the roof. They were 744 00:26:27,285 --> 00:26:29,384 literally lifted up there by a high low. 745 00:26:29,445 --> 00:26:31,865 They were essentially deposited on the roof. 746 00:26:32,164 --> 00:26:34,164 They didn't take nails and have to pound 747 00:26:34,164 --> 00:26:35,605 them in one at a time. They had 748 00:26:35,605 --> 00:26:37,410 pneumatic cameras, and it was pop pop pop 749 00:26:37,410 --> 00:26:39,809 pop pop pop. In fact, they put an 750 00:26:39,809 --> 00:26:41,970 entire roof on this house. What would have 751 00:26:41,970 --> 00:26:43,809 probably taken a week when I was growing 752 00:26:43,809 --> 00:26:45,590 up, they did it in an afternoon. 753 00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:47,190 So 754 00:26:47,730 --> 00:26:49,730 have there been roofers that have been displaced 755 00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:51,269 because of the pneumatic hammer? 756 00:26:51,644 --> 00:26:52,144 Probably. 757 00:26:53,164 --> 00:26:55,644 But that roofer that did a rotten job 758 00:26:55,644 --> 00:26:57,644 with a hammer still does a rotten job 759 00:26:57,644 --> 00:26:58,945 with a pneumatic nailer. 760 00:26:59,325 --> 00:27:02,045 Yeah. And and there because there's still a 761 00:27:02,045 --> 00:27:04,480 skill associated with that. And I think we're 762 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,559 gonna see that same thing in in virtually 763 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:08,740 every occupation as it relates to AI. 764 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,880 Will there be some people that try to 765 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,919 take shortcuts and win? Absolutely. We're human. There's 766 00:27:14,159 --> 00:27:15,380 that's going to happen. 767 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:17,805 Just like there's people that'll like you said, 768 00:27:17,965 --> 00:27:19,485 because I have seat belts and an airbag, 769 00:27:19,485 --> 00:27:21,644 I can drive I can drive faster and 770 00:27:21,644 --> 00:27:23,184 and and push the limits. 771 00:27:23,725 --> 00:27:24,924 And then there'll be people like me that 772 00:27:24,924 --> 00:27:26,765 drive a minivan and go, okay. You're gonna 773 00:27:26,765 --> 00:27:28,384 crash because you just did that. 774 00:27:29,485 --> 00:27:31,164 So, you know, I think it it goes 775 00:27:31,164 --> 00:27:33,410 both ways. And I think what we're going 776 00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:35,250 to see, as we've seen with so many 777 00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:36,549 technologies, is that 778 00:27:37,089 --> 00:27:40,049 society will continue to evolve. And ultimately, we're 779 00:27:40,049 --> 00:27:42,150 going to create a whole level of jobs 780 00:27:42,210 --> 00:27:44,309 that didn't exist two years ago 781 00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:47,184 that two years or ten years from now 782 00:27:47,484 --> 00:27:49,105 will exist and will become 783 00:27:49,404 --> 00:27:50,865 really important jobs 784 00:27:51,164 --> 00:27:53,484 because of the fact that they're needed. You 785 00:27:53,484 --> 00:27:55,644 know, it's, I can remember being in the 786 00:27:55,644 --> 00:27:56,465 IT world. 787 00:27:57,005 --> 00:27:58,845 Thirty years ago is probably not long enough. 788 00:27:58,845 --> 00:28:00,785 But, you know, there was a time when 789 00:28:01,299 --> 00:28:03,700 Cisco routers were not something that people understood 790 00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:06,180 and did because there weren't that many networks. 791 00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:08,579 It just didn't didn't exist like it does 792 00:28:08,579 --> 00:28:09,079 today, 793 00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:11,299 nowadays. And while I'm out of that world, 794 00:28:11,299 --> 00:28:13,299 so I hope it's still Cisco. But, you 795 00:28:13,299 --> 00:28:14,025 know, it's 796 00:28:14,744 --> 00:28:18,025 now that's commonplace and understanding those technologies is 797 00:28:18,025 --> 00:28:18,525 commonplace. 798 00:28:18,984 --> 00:28:20,265 So I think we're just gonna see an 799 00:28:20,265 --> 00:28:22,345 evolution of jobs as as we move through 800 00:28:22,345 --> 00:28:22,845 this. 801 00:28:23,384 --> 00:28:25,065 Well, I would say what's happened in the 802 00:28:25,065 --> 00:28:27,484 network world is we've gone from understanding 803 00:28:29,009 --> 00:28:29,509 routers 804 00:28:29,890 --> 00:28:32,230 to understanding how to configure routers. 805 00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:34,390 Oh, interesting. 806 00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:36,309 Yeah. I I 807 00:28:37,009 --> 00:28:38,369 And I And really where we should be 808 00:28:38,369 --> 00:28:40,065 going and maybe AI can take us there. 809 00:28:40,544 --> 00:28:41,744 The LMS can take us there where we 810 00:28:41,744 --> 00:28:43,664 should be going is going from understanding routers 811 00:28:43,664 --> 00:28:44,724 to understanding networks 812 00:28:45,184 --> 00:28:47,125 and understanding completely assembled systems. 813 00:28:47,504 --> 00:28:48,804 And I wonder if 814 00:28:49,345 --> 00:28:51,664 maybe we can reverse the the negative trend 815 00:28:51,664 --> 00:28:53,184 that you see for us if there's a 816 00:28:53,184 --> 00:28:55,109 way to use these tools in that way. 817 00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:58,150 Yeah. It would be interesting to figure out 818 00:28:58,150 --> 00:29:00,890 a way to target AI tools at, 819 00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:04,869 a way to build an LLM or something 820 00:29:04,869 --> 00:29:06,089 that's trained specifically 821 00:29:06,869 --> 00:29:08,650 to get when you ask for configuration, 822 00:29:09,644 --> 00:29:11,965 oh, you say, what is it you're trying 823 00:29:11,965 --> 00:29:14,285 to do? What problem are you trying to 824 00:29:14,285 --> 00:29:14,785 solve? 825 00:29:15,164 --> 00:29:15,664 Right? 826 00:29:16,365 --> 00:29:18,144 Rather than handing you the configuration, 827 00:29:18,605 --> 00:29:21,265 you know. When I was working at Cisco, 828 00:29:21,649 --> 00:29:23,750 we had a bad habit of putting, 829 00:29:25,089 --> 00:29:27,250 special images in the CCIE lab. I shouldn't 830 00:29:27,250 --> 00:29:28,309 tell all these secrets. 831 00:29:28,849 --> 00:29:30,609 But when you would when you would type 832 00:29:30,609 --> 00:29:32,369 in a question mark, you know, to figure 833 00:29:32,369 --> 00:29:34,049 out what it was, it would just come 834 00:29:34,049 --> 00:29:36,515 back with what? It wouldn't, like, give you 835 00:29:36,515 --> 00:29:37,734 any prompting. 836 00:29:41,234 --> 00:29:42,855 Cruel. You are cruel. 837 00:29:43,954 --> 00:29:46,595 Because I guess the point was, you know, 838 00:29:46,595 --> 00:29:48,295 if you're on the CCIE exam, 839 00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:50,869 you really shouldn't need I mean, I say 840 00:29:50,869 --> 00:29:53,109 that, but then we always used to have 841 00:29:53,109 --> 00:29:54,710 long list of things we could talk about 842 00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:55,450 in the tech 843 00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:58,710 because people would ask us questions, and we'd 844 00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:59,369 be like, 845 00:29:59,670 --> 00:30:02,565 so, how's the weather there while you're looking 846 00:30:02,565 --> 00:30:05,044 up the command structure because you can't remember 847 00:30:05,044 --> 00:30:06,345 every command in iOS 848 00:30:06,644 --> 00:30:08,005 type of thing. And then and then you 849 00:30:08,005 --> 00:30:10,345 take it away from the CCIE candidates. Nice. 850 00:30:10,565 --> 00:30:11,065 Nice. 851 00:30:13,285 --> 00:30:15,809 Yes. That's that's that's, you know, the world 852 00:30:15,809 --> 00:30:16,789 I lived in. 853 00:30:18,289 --> 00:30:20,289 It's terrible, but that's the world I lived 854 00:30:20,289 --> 00:30:22,529 in. So I do I do wonder if 855 00:30:22,529 --> 00:30:24,849 there's a way to structure AI. And see, 856 00:30:24,849 --> 00:30:25,509 I consider 857 00:30:27,045 --> 00:30:30,265 the movement from understanding networks to understanding configuration 858 00:30:30,565 --> 00:30:32,985 to be a product of moral hazard. 859 00:30:34,005 --> 00:30:35,924 Things work well enough now that we don't 860 00:30:35,924 --> 00:30:37,144 have to understand the network. 861 00:30:37,445 --> 00:30:40,109 People can just configure things, and it works, 862 00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:41,630 And they don't need to know how it 863 00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:42,929 works or why. 864 00:30:43,470 --> 00:30:44,990 And I wonder if there's a way to 865 00:30:44,990 --> 00:30:46,210 structure AI 866 00:30:47,069 --> 00:30:47,569 tools 867 00:30:48,029 --> 00:30:50,829 in a way that reverses that, like Tom 868 00:30:50,829 --> 00:30:52,670 said. I I don't know that there is, 869 00:30:52,670 --> 00:30:54,369 but it seems like 870 00:30:55,174 --> 00:30:56,554 something worth exploring. 871 00:30:57,255 --> 00:30:58,855 I think it'd be very interesting, and I 872 00:30:58,855 --> 00:31:00,855 think, again, it's gonna largely depend on the 873 00:31:00,855 --> 00:31:02,615 individual at that point in time. You know, 874 00:31:02,615 --> 00:31:05,174 there's always individuals, at least in in my 875 00:31:05,174 --> 00:31:07,035 perception, and I certainly could be mistaken. 876 00:31:07,549 --> 00:31:10,109 There's always that individual that's looking for the 877 00:31:10,109 --> 00:31:10,609 shortcut, 878 00:31:11,069 --> 00:31:13,470 and then there's the individual that's looking to 879 00:31:13,470 --> 00:31:15,630 understand and comprehend. And I think AI is 880 00:31:15,630 --> 00:31:16,450 going to 881 00:31:17,230 --> 00:31:20,349 facilitate some shortcuts that certain users want, but 882 00:31:20,349 --> 00:31:22,690 it's also gonna facilitate the opportunity 883 00:31:23,414 --> 00:31:25,575 for that network engineer or anybody else that 884 00:31:25,575 --> 00:31:27,894 wants to dive deeper into a topic and 885 00:31:27,894 --> 00:31:30,134 really get behind the scenes and get to 886 00:31:30,134 --> 00:31:31,835 the why of what's happening. 887 00:31:32,295 --> 00:31:34,134 They're gonna allow them to do that faster 888 00:31:34,134 --> 00:31:37,089 than they can today and likely provide them 889 00:31:37,089 --> 00:31:40,049 some some assistance and guidance as they as 890 00:31:40,049 --> 00:31:41,910 they walk down that path. 891 00:31:43,650 --> 00:31:45,970 Yeah. It's interesting. I I I certainly hope 892 00:31:45,970 --> 00:31:47,509 so. I hope that's correct. 893 00:31:49,204 --> 00:31:51,785 So I actually don't have any other questions 894 00:31:51,845 --> 00:31:53,785 than that. I've kind of run out of 895 00:31:54,244 --> 00:31:54,984 my questions. 896 00:31:55,525 --> 00:31:57,765 Maybe if you want to, Jonathan, talk to 897 00:31:57,765 --> 00:31:58,505 us about 898 00:31:58,805 --> 00:32:00,825 what it is you're doing with AI 899 00:32:01,539 --> 00:32:03,299 and just, like, where you think the future 900 00:32:03,299 --> 00:32:05,779 is going so we kinda, like, wrap up 901 00:32:05,779 --> 00:32:08,500 and think about, you know, what what's gonna 902 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:09,320 happen here? 903 00:32:10,660 --> 00:32:13,700 My passion with AI is that I truly 904 00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:15,320 believe that at my core 905 00:32:15,884 --> 00:32:17,265 that AI amplifies 906 00:32:17,565 --> 00:32:18,545 skill and experience. 907 00:32:19,244 --> 00:32:20,464 And as such, 908 00:32:21,005 --> 00:32:23,085 I wanna really help those with skill and 909 00:32:23,085 --> 00:32:23,585 experience 910 00:32:24,285 --> 00:32:26,525 learn how to leverage AI in a way 911 00:32:26,525 --> 00:32:27,664 that creates 912 00:32:28,045 --> 00:32:28,545 efficiencies, 913 00:32:29,484 --> 00:32:32,859 that provides more flexibility through time savings, 914 00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:34,759 and hopefully at the end of the day, 915 00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:37,160 because ultimately what we do with in one 916 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,880 capacity or another is serving others, that it 917 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,359 allows us to bring more value to to 918 00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:43,420 those as well. 919 00:32:44,964 --> 00:32:46,644 Do I think we're gonna go to George 920 00:32:46,644 --> 00:32:49,044 Jetson style where people could get finger cramps 921 00:32:49,044 --> 00:32:50,724 because they've been pressing a button all day 922 00:32:50,724 --> 00:32:52,884 long? Not in my lifetime. I don't think 923 00:32:52,884 --> 00:32:54,024 we're gonna see that. 924 00:32:54,484 --> 00:32:55,924 Might we see that at some point in 925 00:32:55,924 --> 00:32:57,539 the future? Who knows? 926 00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:00,820 But I really believe that AI is going 927 00:33:01,759 --> 00:33:03,380 to be a just a fundamental 928 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:04,180 shift 929 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,880 in how we do things, and it's going 930 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,799 to allow those that wanna skate by to 931 00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:10,305 skate by by a little bit easier. 932 00:33:10,765 --> 00:33:12,365 But as in anything else in life, I 933 00:33:12,365 --> 00:33:13,725 think it's going to allow those of us 934 00:33:13,725 --> 00:33:15,825 who want to become experts in a topic 935 00:33:16,445 --> 00:33:17,904 to become experts 936 00:33:18,445 --> 00:33:20,445 at an even greater level and a greater 937 00:33:20,445 --> 00:33:20,945 depth 938 00:33:21,289 --> 00:33:23,289 than maybe we've ever had the possibilities in 939 00:33:23,289 --> 00:33:25,529 the past. So getting back to me, I 940 00:33:25,529 --> 00:33:26,589 I wanna teach 941 00:33:27,210 --> 00:33:29,849 the teams, the individuals that not not just 942 00:33:29,849 --> 00:33:32,029 the companies, but their teams, their employees, 943 00:33:32,569 --> 00:33:35,085 how they can leverage AI so that at 944 00:33:35,085 --> 00:33:36,525 the end of the day, they have a 945 00:33:36,525 --> 00:33:37,984 better work experience 946 00:33:38,525 --> 00:33:41,345 and a better deliverable for their their ultimate, 947 00:33:42,044 --> 00:33:44,525 whatever that's a product or service. So so 948 00:33:44,525 --> 00:33:46,544 you're actually doing courses in 949 00:33:46,845 --> 00:33:49,085 how to use AI, but it's on-site with 950 00:33:49,085 --> 00:33:51,339 Teams right now. Right? It's not like a 951 00:33:51,339 --> 00:33:53,279 generic class that you're teaching. 952 00:33:53,659 --> 00:33:55,259 Or is it? I'm I'm asking, like, what 953 00:33:55,259 --> 00:33:56,940 format is this? No. That's a good question. 954 00:33:56,940 --> 00:33:59,279 So pretty much everything I do now is 955 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:01,179 I do a lot of public speaking, and 956 00:34:01,179 --> 00:34:02,559 a lot of that's in person. 957 00:34:03,134 --> 00:34:05,295 But other than that, the courses and stuff 958 00:34:05,295 --> 00:34:07,055 that I do, they're almost all done via 959 00:34:07,055 --> 00:34:10,255 Zoom and are typically topic based where we're 960 00:34:10,255 --> 00:34:12,594 teaching a specific skill set 961 00:34:13,054 --> 00:34:16,030 to a specific group or a group of 962 00:34:16,030 --> 00:34:18,829 individuals regarding something that fits. So, you know, 963 00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:20,449 that ranges anything from, 964 00:34:20,750 --> 00:34:23,469 one of the large national profit nonprofits that 965 00:34:23,469 --> 00:34:25,949 I work for where we're working with each 966 00:34:25,949 --> 00:34:28,349 department to help them kind of address three 967 00:34:28,429 --> 00:34:30,674 their top three goals in that department and 968 00:34:30,674 --> 00:34:32,594 how to leverage AI to help them achieve 969 00:34:32,594 --> 00:34:33,255 those goals. 970 00:34:33,714 --> 00:34:36,114 Two, working with the local small business, you 971 00:34:36,114 --> 00:34:37,974 know, chiropractor in your town, 972 00:34:38,275 --> 00:34:40,934 helping him figure out or her figure out 973 00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:43,609 how they can leverage AI 974 00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:46,329 inside of their business to, 975 00:34:46,789 --> 00:34:49,109 again, provide more value to the community that 976 00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:51,750 they're trying to serve. Okay. That's really cool. 977 00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:52,569 That's interesting. 978 00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:55,190 Alright. I don't have any other questions. Anything 979 00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:56,010 from you, Tom? 980 00:34:56,664 --> 00:34:58,184 No. No. I'm good. Thanks for coming on, 981 00:34:58,184 --> 00:34:59,864 Jonathan. It's been great. Yeah. And anything else 982 00:34:59,864 --> 00:35:01,704 you want to talk about, Jonathan? Like, you 983 00:35:01,704 --> 00:35:03,724 wanna say I mean, like, 984 00:35:04,025 --> 00:35:06,605 you know, famous last words before the 985 00:35:09,380 --> 00:35:10,980 if I have any famous last words at 986 00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:13,059 all, I think AI is gonna present more 987 00:35:13,059 --> 00:35:13,559 opportunities 988 00:35:13,860 --> 00:35:15,380 than it does anything else. And I think 989 00:35:15,380 --> 00:35:16,900 it's there for those that are ready to 990 00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:19,460 embrace it like any new technology. So I'm 991 00:35:19,460 --> 00:35:22,360 excited about the future. Alright. Cool. Awesome. 992 00:35:22,660 --> 00:35:23,160 Okay. 993 00:35:23,765 --> 00:35:26,565 So, Jonathan, where can people follow you, catch 994 00:35:26,565 --> 00:35:28,724 up with you? I assume you blog. I 995 00:35:28,724 --> 00:35:31,065 assume you're on LinkedIn, etcetera, etcetera. 996 00:35:31,525 --> 00:35:32,965 Yeah. The best way is just if you 997 00:35:32,965 --> 00:35:35,364 remember my name, it's Jonathan Mast, m a 998 00:35:35,364 --> 00:35:38,824 s t. If you go to jonathanmast.com/linktree, 999 00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:41,349 I've got all my contact bits there, tons 1000 00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:42,329 of free resources. 1001 00:35:43,269 --> 00:35:44,630 Just, you know, that's the best way to 1002 00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:46,150 connect with me and reach out, and you'll 1003 00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:49,989 see everything from Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, email, phone, 1004 00:35:49,989 --> 00:35:52,489 you name it. Whatever is the favorite technology, 1005 00:35:52,985 --> 00:35:54,985 There's a way to reach out, and I'd 1006 00:35:54,985 --> 00:35:56,985 love to add value if I can. Alright. 1007 00:35:56,985 --> 00:35:58,204 Awesome. Tom, 1008 00:35:58,985 --> 00:36:00,045 just say it. LinkedIn. Okay. 1009 00:36:01,784 --> 00:36:03,085 You have to say it again. 1010 00:36:03,945 --> 00:36:04,445 LinkedIn. 1011 00:36:06,769 --> 00:36:08,289 Tom only does LinkedIn, so we have to 1012 00:36:08,289 --> 00:36:09,829 give him a hard time about it. 1013 00:36:10,609 --> 00:36:13,170 Okay. So I'm Russ White. You can always 1014 00:36:13,170 --> 00:36:14,609 find me here on the hedge at rule 1015 00:36:14,609 --> 00:36:16,630 eleven dot tech. On LinkedIn, 1016 00:36:17,170 --> 00:36:19,650 I do occasionally log in to x, me, 1017 00:36:19,650 --> 00:36:22,344 Twitter, whatever you wanna call it today. I'm 1018 00:36:22,344 --> 00:36:24,184 pretty easy to find. Other than that, we 1019 00:36:24,184 --> 00:36:25,945 know that we live in an attention driven 1020 00:36:25,945 --> 00:36:27,864 economy. We thank you for listening all the 1021 00:36:27,864 --> 00:36:30,025 way to the very bitter end of this 1022 00:36:30,025 --> 00:36:31,244 episode of The Hedge, 1023 00:36:31,704 --> 00:36:33,565 and we will catch you next time.