1 00:00:01,599 --> 00:00:03,600 Join us as we gather around the hedge, 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:04,980 where we dig into technology, 3 00:00:05,359 --> 00:00:08,080 business, and culture with the finest minds in 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,059 computer networking. 5 00:00:20,175 --> 00:00:21,074 Hello, Tom. 6 00:00:22,015 --> 00:00:22,515 Iris. 7 00:00:22,974 --> 00:00:25,154 The plant made it back from the hospital. 8 00:00:25,614 --> 00:00:27,554 I'm so happy 9 00:00:28,094 --> 00:00:30,570 for the plant. I I was very 10 00:00:30,949 --> 00:00:32,950 I have been worried about the plant for 11 00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:33,450 weeks. 12 00:00:33,990 --> 00:00:35,590 I think you I think you love the 13 00:00:35,590 --> 00:00:37,210 plant more than I do. Well, 14 00:00:40,869 --> 00:00:43,655 I don't know. It's something entertaining to look 15 00:00:43,655 --> 00:00:46,335 at Yeah. On online. I didn't know if 16 00:00:46,335 --> 00:00:48,314 it was a plant hospital, but 17 00:00:49,015 --> 00:00:51,674 did she buy health insurance, or did she 18 00:00:52,054 --> 00:00:53,114 pay out of pocket? 19 00:00:54,820 --> 00:00:56,979 So, that's Henning, and I don't know how 20 00:00:56,979 --> 00:00:58,659 to pronounce your last name, Henning, so I'm 21 00:00:58,659 --> 00:00:59,880 not I'm not gonna try. 22 00:01:02,659 --> 00:01:03,960 So it's Winnie, but 23 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:05,959 Henning will do. 24 00:01:07,219 --> 00:01:09,239 So, where are you, Henning, physically? 25 00:01:10,194 --> 00:01:11,734 I'm physically located, 26 00:01:12,594 --> 00:01:13,814 in New York City. 27 00:01:14,194 --> 00:01:16,915 I I work currently at Columbia University, so 28 00:01:16,915 --> 00:01:19,634 I'm sitting in my my Columbia office on 29 00:01:19,954 --> 00:01:20,454 Okay. 30 00:01:21,474 --> 00:01:22,935 The Upper West Side of, 31 00:01:23,634 --> 00:01:24,134 Manhattan. 32 00:01:24,754 --> 00:01:26,450 Cool. I used to work at 33 00:01:26,909 --> 00:01:29,810 the United Engineering Center when it existed 34 00:01:30,350 --> 00:01:31,790 for, I don't know, just a couple of 35 00:01:31,790 --> 00:01:33,950 years. I worked at the United Engineering Center. 36 00:01:33,950 --> 00:01:34,829 I say a couple of years. I don't 37 00:01:34,829 --> 00:01:36,189 know. Maybe it was three or four, but 38 00:01:36,189 --> 00:01:36,689 whatever, 39 00:01:37,150 --> 00:01:39,310 which is was used to be directly across 40 00:01:39,310 --> 00:01:40,850 the street from the UN Building. 41 00:01:41,284 --> 00:01:43,685 Oh, okay. It it's gone now. The the 42 00:01:43,685 --> 00:01:45,444 building is gone now. It was torn down 43 00:01:45,444 --> 00:01:47,944 and replaced with condos or whatever they did. 44 00:01:48,164 --> 00:01:49,064 But, originally, 45 00:01:50,164 --> 00:01:52,484 the I triple e, the I the I 46 00:01:52,484 --> 00:01:53,625 triple e, the 47 00:01:54,329 --> 00:01:57,129 American Society of Mechanical Engineers, the American Society 48 00:01:57,129 --> 00:01:58,269 of Chemical Engineers, 49 00:01:58,890 --> 00:02:00,030 all had floors 50 00:02:00,890 --> 00:02:02,670 in that building. So it was the headquarters 51 00:02:02,729 --> 00:02:03,469 for, like, 52 00:02:04,170 --> 00:02:05,469 all of these different, 53 00:02:07,369 --> 00:02:08,349 standards bodies. 54 00:02:09,115 --> 00:02:10,875 Not not the IETF because, of course, the 55 00:02:10,875 --> 00:02:12,875 IETF is not like not like that kind 56 00:02:12,875 --> 00:02:14,094 of a standard body, 57 00:02:15,034 --> 00:02:17,375 but a lot of the other ones. So 58 00:02:18,795 --> 00:02:21,275 so I know that area pretty well, the, 59 00:02:21,835 --> 00:02:23,855 the Upper West Side Of Manhattan. 60 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:24,800 Everything 61 00:02:25,340 --> 00:02:27,900 from Penn Station, New York over to the 62 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:28,719 UN Building 63 00:02:29,020 --> 00:02:32,139 is very familiar territory for me from all 64 00:02:32,139 --> 00:02:33,819 the years I worked there and walked back 65 00:02:33,819 --> 00:02:35,659 and forth. I don't know about you, but 66 00:02:35,659 --> 00:02:37,120 I I never take taxis 67 00:02:37,775 --> 00:02:40,974 or public transportation across town. Like, if I 68 00:02:40,974 --> 00:02:42,735 have to go a long way, like uptown 69 00:02:42,735 --> 00:02:43,395 or downtown, 70 00:02:43,694 --> 00:02:46,015 yeah, that's one thing. But, like, 30 blocks 71 00:02:46,015 --> 00:02:47,715 across town, they're the short blocks. 72 00:02:48,094 --> 00:02:50,594 Yeah. And, like, it's it's not, 73 00:02:52,090 --> 00:02:54,009 you know, it's just not far enough of 74 00:02:54,009 --> 00:02:56,090 a walk or it's not far enough to 75 00:02:56,090 --> 00:02:59,129 be bothered with a cab or or or 76 00:02:59,129 --> 00:03:00,909 whatever else. So yeah. 77 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:04,824 Alright. Cool. So today, we are talking 78 00:03:05,125 --> 00:03:06,425 about the NTIA, 79 00:03:06,884 --> 00:03:09,224 which is the National Telecommunications 80 00:03:09,764 --> 00:03:11,064 and Information Administration 81 00:03:12,004 --> 00:03:14,084 Mhmm. Which is part of the Department of 82 00:03:14,084 --> 00:03:14,584 Commerce, 83 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:16,780 which is 84 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,060 an interesting 85 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:19,159 little 86 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:20,919 I shouldn't say little because I don't know 87 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:21,900 how big it is, 88 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,000 which is an interesting subsection of the US 89 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:25,500 government 90 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,319 that not a lot of people seem to 91 00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:29,560 know about. It's very like, a lot of 92 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:30,620 people know about 93 00:03:32,284 --> 00:03:34,284 wherever Doug Martin and NIST and all these 94 00:03:34,284 --> 00:03:34,944 other places 95 00:03:35,245 --> 00:03:36,064 that do standards. 96 00:03:36,604 --> 00:03:39,164 But the NTIA is different from all of 97 00:03:39,164 --> 00:03:41,344 that. And they everybody knows about the FCC. 98 00:03:41,405 --> 00:03:41,905 Right? 99 00:03:42,365 --> 00:03:44,365 But that's this is different from all of 100 00:03:44,365 --> 00:03:44,865 that. 101 00:03:45,449 --> 00:03:45,949 So, 102 00:03:46,409 --> 00:03:48,909 you know, can you, like, explain to us 103 00:03:49,129 --> 00:03:51,290 what the NTIA does for those who aren't 104 00:03:51,290 --> 00:03:51,790 familiar? 105 00:03:52,409 --> 00:03:54,669 So NTIA, as you said, is 106 00:03:55,050 --> 00:03:57,530 part of the Department of Commerce, which actually 107 00:03:57,530 --> 00:03:58,030 also 108 00:03:58,534 --> 00:03:59,034 hosts, 109 00:03:59,414 --> 00:04:01,995 NIST as one of the more familiar entities 110 00:04:02,055 --> 00:04:03,514 in tech space. 111 00:04:04,375 --> 00:04:07,675 It it hosts very patent office. So NTA 112 00:04:07,894 --> 00:04:08,394 is 113 00:04:11,509 --> 00:04:14,969 one of about a dozen entities that all 114 00:04:15,430 --> 00:04:16,889 vaguely related to 115 00:04:18,149 --> 00:04:19,529 commerce, the economy, 116 00:04:21,110 --> 00:04:22,569 and they are 117 00:04:23,154 --> 00:04:26,274 housed under the secretary of commerce or a 118 00:04:26,274 --> 00:04:27,334 cabinet level 119 00:04:27,875 --> 00:04:28,375 department 120 00:04:28,915 --> 00:04:31,894 unlike the FCC, which is an independent regulatory 121 00:04:32,354 --> 00:04:32,854 entity 122 00:04:33,794 --> 00:04:35,175 established by Congress 123 00:04:35,634 --> 00:04:36,134 and, 124 00:04:37,875 --> 00:04:38,774 is not a 125 00:04:39,370 --> 00:04:41,069 executive branch agency. 126 00:04:41,449 --> 00:04:42,189 So NTIA 127 00:04:42,569 --> 00:04:43,050 is, 128 00:04:43,529 --> 00:04:44,029 technologically, 129 00:04:49,050 --> 00:04:49,550 mandated. 130 00:04:50,089 --> 00:04:52,455 So I was I mean, mandate is, broadly 131 00:04:52,455 --> 00:04:52,955 speaking, 132 00:04:53,735 --> 00:04:54,235 telecommunication 133 00:04:54,615 --> 00:04:57,415 and other technologies. So we dabble in AI, 134 00:04:57,415 --> 00:04:58,074 for example, 135 00:04:59,095 --> 00:05:02,535 that provides advice and administrative functions to the 136 00:05:02,535 --> 00:05:03,355 federal government. 137 00:05:03,814 --> 00:05:04,555 So, traditionally, 138 00:05:05,095 --> 00:05:06,475 until fairly recently, 139 00:05:06,829 --> 00:05:08,370 it was a very small, 140 00:05:08,910 --> 00:05:11,550 part of commerce, probably one of the smaller 141 00:05:11,550 --> 00:05:12,050 parts. 142 00:05:12,750 --> 00:05:14,290 And it had 143 00:05:15,069 --> 00:05:15,569 two 144 00:05:15,949 --> 00:05:16,769 key functions. 145 00:05:17,629 --> 00:05:18,129 Namely, 146 00:05:18,829 --> 00:05:20,129 one is it 147 00:05:20,485 --> 00:05:21,305 was responsible 148 00:05:21,764 --> 00:05:24,504 for the US government Spectrum Administration. 149 00:05:25,685 --> 00:05:29,125 So as listeners may know, is in The 150 00:05:29,125 --> 00:05:32,564 US, Spectrum is managed at licensed Spectrum is 151 00:05:32,564 --> 00:05:34,025 managed by two entities. 152 00:05:34,330 --> 00:05:36,970 So we we think of Spectrum like being 153 00:05:36,970 --> 00:05:39,150 the FCC because we manage the more 154 00:05:39,770 --> 00:05:42,509 visible, so to say, Spectrum that cell phone 155 00:05:42,889 --> 00:05:46,189 carriers and radio stations and TV stations and, 156 00:05:46,569 --> 00:05:47,550 Wi Fi users. 157 00:05:48,330 --> 00:05:48,830 But 158 00:05:50,625 --> 00:05:51,125 for 159 00:05:52,305 --> 00:05:54,324 hundred years or so, I 160 00:05:55,104 --> 00:05:58,064 the US government has also used wide swaths 161 00:05:58,064 --> 00:06:00,384 of the spectrum for their needs, anything from 162 00:06:00,384 --> 00:06:02,644 the military, as you might imagine, to 163 00:06:04,550 --> 00:06:05,449 public safety, 164 00:06:06,310 --> 00:06:07,370 to earth observation, 165 00:06:08,310 --> 00:06:11,529 anything which is won indirectly or directly by, 166 00:06:12,629 --> 00:06:15,829 federal, state, and local government. In that state, 167 00:06:15,829 --> 00:06:18,889 local, more complicated, but all, so it's primarily 168 00:06:19,029 --> 00:06:19,529 federal. 169 00:06:20,105 --> 00:06:21,404 And so they are 170 00:06:21,785 --> 00:06:24,745 the allocator of that spectrum, coordinator of that 171 00:06:24,745 --> 00:06:26,525 spectrum within the federal government 172 00:06:26,904 --> 00:06:27,404 usage. 173 00:06:27,865 --> 00:06:29,004 And they also, 174 00:06:30,105 --> 00:06:33,360 coordinate with the FCC about that spectrum because 175 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,379 obviously, particularly last few years, spectrum has been 176 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,920 kind of a scarce commodity that they don't 177 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,199 make any more of it. 178 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:42,740 And so, 179 00:06:43,439 --> 00:06:44,500 a lot of 180 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:45,360 the, 181 00:06:45,865 --> 00:06:47,884 spectrum that does become available 182 00:06:48,664 --> 00:06:49,164 typically 183 00:06:49,464 --> 00:06:52,745 was used by government users before because all 184 00:06:52,745 --> 00:06:54,444 the other spectrum that is 185 00:06:54,745 --> 00:06:56,284 available has already been 186 00:06:56,664 --> 00:06:59,860 doled out to some typically commercial entity. So 187 00:06:59,860 --> 00:07:02,740 that's probably the highest impact entity. Go ahead. 188 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:05,139 Okay. So so that spectrum that's handed out 189 00:07:05,139 --> 00:07:08,519 to commercial entities is done via reverse auctions, 190 00:07:08,660 --> 00:07:10,199 right, most of the time? 191 00:07:10,979 --> 00:07:11,220 And 192 00:07:12,214 --> 00:07:14,794 not quite. So Okay. I 193 00:07:15,334 --> 00:07:17,974 so clearly, NTIA for government spectrum, they don't 194 00:07:17,974 --> 00:07:20,634 auction anything because that would be peculiar. 195 00:07:21,175 --> 00:07:22,875 For the commercial side, 196 00:07:23,735 --> 00:07:23,894 I 197 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:26,319 the commercial spectrum is 198 00:07:26,939 --> 00:07:27,439 auctioned. 199 00:07:28,699 --> 00:07:31,920 That's for high profile billion dollar stuff. But 200 00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:34,639 a significant fraction of the spectrum, 201 00:07:35,420 --> 00:07:37,120 even on the commercial side, 202 00:07:37,514 --> 00:07:40,495 is either allocated in some administrative function 203 00:07:41,035 --> 00:07:41,535 or 204 00:07:41,915 --> 00:07:44,794 by industry coordination. So for example, a lot 205 00:07:44,794 --> 00:07:47,354 of a microwave spectrum is not auctioned off. 206 00:07:47,354 --> 00:07:49,774 It is just as a coordinated spectrum coordinator, 207 00:07:50,699 --> 00:07:51,920 because it's largely 208 00:07:52,459 --> 00:07:54,939 geographic separation, and so you don't really need 209 00:07:54,939 --> 00:07:57,920 an auction for that. But, yes, generally speaking, 210 00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:01,279 highest profile spectrum recently 211 00:08:01,899 --> 00:08:04,665 that's been allocated on the FCC side has 212 00:08:04,665 --> 00:08:05,485 been by, 213 00:08:06,105 --> 00:08:06,605 auction. 214 00:08:07,145 --> 00:08:09,785 Not reverse auction. That's typically that was really 215 00:08:09,785 --> 00:08:12,425 only one auction. Oh, okay. Okay. That was 216 00:08:12,425 --> 00:08:13,805 for TV spectrum 217 00:08:14,105 --> 00:08:15,625 that you may have heard about a few 218 00:08:15,625 --> 00:08:16,444 years ago, 219 00:08:16,824 --> 00:08:17,324 where 220 00:08:17,865 --> 00:08:21,360 they got a, the TV stations got paid 221 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,100 to relinquish, 222 00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:25,220 all a part of the spectrum, which is 223 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:26,180 sold to, 224 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:28,339 cell providers. 225 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:29,379 Okay. 226 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,040 Cool. So that 227 00:08:31,839 --> 00:08:33,299 so the NTIA then 228 00:08:34,004 --> 00:08:36,585 looks like the internal regulator 229 00:08:37,524 --> 00:08:39,305 for spectrum usage. 230 00:08:39,684 --> 00:08:41,465 It's the same thing as, 231 00:08:42,245 --> 00:08:45,205 say, the military has an internal regulator for 232 00:08:45,205 --> 00:08:47,945 spectrum usage that's allocated to military use. 233 00:08:48,330 --> 00:08:48,830 And 234 00:08:49,210 --> 00:08:52,590 a TV station might have an internal regulator 235 00:08:53,050 --> 00:08:54,350 or a cell phone company 236 00:08:54,730 --> 00:08:56,350 might have an internal regulator 237 00:08:56,970 --> 00:08:59,930 for, like, we've been allocated this. We need 238 00:08:59,930 --> 00:09:01,129 to make sure we put it on the 239 00:09:01,129 --> 00:09:03,404 right towers in the right place and stuff 240 00:09:03,404 --> 00:09:05,004 like that. So it's that kind of a 241 00:09:05,004 --> 00:09:05,504 position 242 00:09:05,964 --> 00:09:07,664 within Yes. But but facing 243 00:09:08,524 --> 00:09:10,865 government entities, which I assume includes 244 00:09:11,725 --> 00:09:12,784 FBI, CIA. 245 00:09:14,204 --> 00:09:15,424 I assume it includes 246 00:09:16,284 --> 00:09:17,664 air traffic control, ATC. 247 00:09:18,659 --> 00:09:20,339 All of that stuff is all included, I 248 00:09:20,339 --> 00:09:22,179 would I would assume. Yes. This is all 249 00:09:22,179 --> 00:09:24,679 included. So some of it is obviously classified 250 00:09:24,740 --> 00:09:26,120 stuff. Most of it is 251 00:09:26,579 --> 00:09:27,079 unclassified 252 00:09:27,459 --> 00:09:28,659 at least in terms of the 253 00:09:29,620 --> 00:09:30,585 who has it. 254 00:09:30,904 --> 00:09:33,785 I and so it's anything from military radars 255 00:09:33,785 --> 00:09:35,725 to traditionally voice communication 256 00:09:36,184 --> 00:09:38,125 to microwave links to, 257 00:09:39,065 --> 00:09:40,045 links to, 258 00:09:41,705 --> 00:09:44,365 by NASA or our NOAA, 259 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:46,179 I radars, 260 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,539 Weber radar type system. So 261 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,639 any of that stuff. But, traditionally, it's been 262 00:09:52,639 --> 00:09:53,139 largely 263 00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:56,100 kind of the equivalent of a county courthouse 264 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:57,139 that has a 265 00:09:57,605 --> 00:10:01,225 thick leather binder with all the households' assignment 266 00:10:01,365 --> 00:10:03,144 in it. So it was 267 00:10:03,605 --> 00:10:04,105 important 268 00:10:04,965 --> 00:10:05,945 but largely 269 00:10:06,644 --> 00:10:07,144 administrative 270 00:10:07,524 --> 00:10:08,184 as in, 271 00:10:09,125 --> 00:10:10,345 it was coordination 272 00:10:10,805 --> 00:10:12,485 to make sure that people don't didn't step 273 00:10:12,485 --> 00:10:14,720 on each other and that people knew what 274 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,139 the other agencies were doing in, 275 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,960 a particular spectrum bands. Alright. But it was 276 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,220 well a totally small staff and 277 00:10:23,919 --> 00:10:26,179 largely sort of say inward looking. 278 00:10:26,995 --> 00:10:30,514 The second function that NTIA has traditionally had 279 00:10:30,514 --> 00:10:32,215 is had that it represents 280 00:10:33,315 --> 00:10:35,815 the US federal government in 281 00:10:36,195 --> 00:10:36,695 international 282 00:10:37,315 --> 00:10:37,815 organizations 283 00:10:38,115 --> 00:10:39,254 that deal with telecommunications. 284 00:10:40,970 --> 00:10:43,389 And we have traditionally, for example, 285 00:10:44,090 --> 00:10:44,590 manage 286 00:10:45,129 --> 00:10:46,909 organizations such as ICANN, 287 00:10:47,769 --> 00:10:49,710 as in the Internet space. 288 00:10:50,090 --> 00:10:52,429 So, for example, they are responsible 289 00:10:54,014 --> 00:10:56,115 in some vague way for 290 00:10:56,815 --> 00:10:57,955 a .com allocation, 291 00:10:58,735 --> 00:11:02,175 administration when that went or for .US most 292 00:11:02,175 --> 00:11:04,434 recently and that. So they have 293 00:11:05,134 --> 00:11:05,634 inverse 294 00:11:06,095 --> 00:11:09,154 non spectrum band issues. They have 295 00:11:09,809 --> 00:11:12,149 administrative and policy functions 296 00:11:12,690 --> 00:11:13,509 for these, 297 00:11:14,129 --> 00:11:17,009 things where the US government historically has had 298 00:11:17,009 --> 00:11:19,110 a wall and even in the Internet space. 299 00:11:20,370 --> 00:11:20,870 Okay. 300 00:11:21,605 --> 00:11:24,165 Alright. Cool. So that's kind of explains. But 301 00:11:24,165 --> 00:11:27,065 there's other things that NTIA does besides just 302 00:11:28,404 --> 00:11:28,904 managing 303 00:11:29,445 --> 00:11:30,904 federal spectrum. Right? 304 00:11:31,605 --> 00:11:34,559 Just normally in its normal business, even before 305 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,959 what we're gonna talk about being added a 306 00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:38,899 few years ago. Right? Yes. 307 00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:40,019 So 308 00:11:40,399 --> 00:11:43,440 NTIA also has had I'd I, you know, 309 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,379 and I don't know if the audience remembers 310 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:46,419 that there was 311 00:11:46,835 --> 00:11:48,215 some number of years ago, 312 00:11:48,835 --> 00:11:50,215 a program called BTOP, 313 00:11:50,674 --> 00:11:54,054 which was a broadband deployment program that was 314 00:11:54,355 --> 00:11:55,495 one of the early 315 00:11:56,274 --> 00:11:59,495 efforts to bring broadband to underserved 316 00:11:59,970 --> 00:12:02,629 communities. And Adeboye is relatively small, 317 00:12:04,289 --> 00:12:05,509 and time limited, 318 00:12:06,129 --> 00:12:07,669 in that. So 319 00:12:08,370 --> 00:12:10,309 Pentium has had 320 00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:11,990 a kind of 321 00:12:12,945 --> 00:12:14,884 a small role, but not recently 322 00:12:15,264 --> 00:12:18,004 in broadband deployment. But Congress decided, 323 00:12:18,705 --> 00:12:20,705 I as part of the Infrastructure and Jobs 324 00:12:20,705 --> 00:12:21,205 Act, 325 00:12:21,585 --> 00:12:22,404 to allocate 326 00:12:23,264 --> 00:12:25,845 roughly 42 and a half billion dollars 327 00:12:26,705 --> 00:12:27,445 to NTIA 328 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:29,860 to deploy 329 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:31,700 a high speed Internet, 330 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,660 generally used term used broadband, 331 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:35,620 to, 332 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,059 put primarily 333 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:38,259 rural locations 334 00:12:38,639 --> 00:12:40,019 in The United States. 335 00:12:40,575 --> 00:12:43,054 They also allocated some additional funds, which I 336 00:12:43,054 --> 00:12:44,915 probably won't be talking about today, 337 00:12:45,774 --> 00:12:48,434 to other programs that were not infrastructure, 338 00:12:48,815 --> 00:12:50,434 that are more education 339 00:12:50,735 --> 00:12:52,975 outreach, and so on, which is generally known 340 00:12:52,975 --> 00:12:54,514 as digital equity programs. 341 00:12:55,215 --> 00:12:55,455 And, 342 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:56,940 but the biggest program 343 00:12:57,399 --> 00:12:58,779 by dollar number 344 00:12:59,480 --> 00:12:59,980 was 345 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,139 this program of Broadband Equity Action Deployment Program 346 00:13:04,199 --> 00:13:05,259 on this speed. 347 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:06,379 I thought 348 00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:07,740 I was allocated, 349 00:13:08,934 --> 00:13:09,434 to 350 00:13:09,815 --> 00:13:11,115 fulfill essentially 351 00:13:11,654 --> 00:13:13,274 the broadband access mission 352 00:13:13,654 --> 00:13:14,875 of the US government. 353 00:13:15,414 --> 00:13:17,735 Okay. So there's a couple of questions that 354 00:13:17,735 --> 00:13:19,995 immediately come up when we talk about Bead 355 00:13:20,054 --> 00:13:21,414 from what I've read about it in the 356 00:13:21,414 --> 00:13:21,779 past. 357 00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:25,240 The first is, how is broadband defined? 358 00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:27,160 Like, what what is, 359 00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:29,620 like because I know there's a lot a 360 00:13:29,620 --> 00:13:30,759 lot of disagreement. 361 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:33,399 I mean, a lot of disagreement 362 00:13:33,940 --> 00:13:35,320 over what the word 363 00:13:35,945 --> 00:13:37,245 broadband means. 364 00:13:37,625 --> 00:13:40,125 Yes. And so it is helpful, 365 00:13:41,544 --> 00:13:43,644 if one wants to follow this discussion 366 00:13:44,345 --> 00:13:45,245 to know, 367 00:13:46,024 --> 00:13:47,865 four terms, and I will be using those. 368 00:13:47,865 --> 00:13:49,804 So let me try to define those. 369 00:13:50,129 --> 00:13:52,049 So to get to your first part is 370 00:13:52,049 --> 00:13:53,110 broadband itself. 371 00:13:53,889 --> 00:13:54,389 So 372 00:13:54,850 --> 00:13:58,389 the FCC has defined for its deployment purposes 373 00:13:58,529 --> 00:13:59,429 what qualifies 374 00:13:59,970 --> 00:14:00,710 as broadband. 375 00:14:01,730 --> 00:14:03,509 Deployment for many years, 376 00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:05,115 recent relatively 377 00:14:05,495 --> 00:14:05,995 recently, 378 00:14:07,174 --> 00:14:08,954 changed the definition that, 379 00:14:09,414 --> 00:14:13,654 required 25 megabits download and three megabit upload 380 00:14:13,654 --> 00:14:17,574 speed to 100 megabits download and 20 megabit 381 00:14:17,574 --> 00:14:18,074 download. 382 00:14:18,509 --> 00:14:20,990 That, however, is an FCC definition that is 383 00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:23,490 primarily used for statistical purposes, 384 00:14:24,429 --> 00:14:25,170 not necessarily 385 00:14:26,429 --> 00:14:29,470 is not binding on and, yeah, as it 386 00:14:29,470 --> 00:14:32,514 happens and causality was reversed, it was because 387 00:14:32,514 --> 00:14:36,195 of the law. The law that Congress passed 388 00:14:36,195 --> 00:14:37,414 said that 389 00:14:37,955 --> 00:14:38,774 what qualifies 390 00:14:39,075 --> 00:14:39,575 as 391 00:14:40,514 --> 00:14:42,054 high speed Internet broadband 392 00:14:42,434 --> 00:14:44,134 for NTIA funding purposes 393 00:14:44,674 --> 00:14:46,375 is 100 megabit, 394 00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:49,200 over 20. So a hundred up, a hundred 395 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,860 down, 20 up, I and up. 396 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:52,820 So 397 00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:55,860 the law defined basically 398 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,440 two types of locations that could receive funding. 399 00:14:59,440 --> 00:14:59,940 Namely, 400 00:15:00,934 --> 00:15:01,995 so called unserved 401 00:15:02,534 --> 00:15:04,695 locations. And this goes to your kind of 402 00:15:04,695 --> 00:15:07,514 definition that we have many of those. Unserved 403 00:15:08,294 --> 00:15:10,454 locations of those that did not have or 404 00:15:10,454 --> 00:15:12,475 do not have 25 megabits, 405 00:15:13,254 --> 00:15:13,754 down, 406 00:15:14,375 --> 00:15:16,169 five, three megabits up. 407 00:15:17,129 --> 00:15:19,929 And underserved locations are those that do not 408 00:15:19,929 --> 00:15:21,389 have hundred slash 20 409 00:15:21,690 --> 00:15:24,190 in that. So those two types of locations, 410 00:15:24,809 --> 00:15:27,470 according to the law, are eligible for funding 411 00:15:27,610 --> 00:15:28,429 under BEED. 412 00:15:30,004 --> 00:15:32,504 The law finally also made a distinction, 413 00:15:33,684 --> 00:15:34,184 that 414 00:15:35,524 --> 00:15:36,024 mattered, 415 00:15:36,565 --> 00:15:39,285 in that because one argument you could make 416 00:15:39,285 --> 00:15:42,485 is that many of the locations, particularly most 417 00:15:42,485 --> 00:15:45,470 recently, actually already have 100 megabit, 418 00:15:46,169 --> 00:15:47,470 download speed in particular, 419 00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:51,870 often provided either by unlicensed fixed wireless or 420 00:15:51,929 --> 00:15:52,909 satellite services. 421 00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:56,090 And so the law defined that, 422 00:15:57,144 --> 00:16:00,284 NTIA should define a term called reliable broadband. 423 00:16:00,825 --> 00:16:02,904 So that's a term of art. And that 424 00:16:02,904 --> 00:16:03,964 doesn't mean what 425 00:16:04,345 --> 00:16:05,865 kind of it doesn't mean that your broadband 426 00:16:05,865 --> 00:16:06,664 doesn't go down. 427 00:16:07,464 --> 00:16:10,125 But it means under the current definition, 428 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:13,860 broadband that is delivered using 429 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,820 terrestrial services or not satellite. 430 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,019 I and either using fiber, 431 00:16:20,559 --> 00:16:22,340 a coax or cable, HFC, 432 00:16:23,190 --> 00:16:24,100 I DSL, 433 00:16:25,004 --> 00:16:29,004 or on fixed wireless using licensed spectrum. So 434 00:16:29,004 --> 00:16:31,504 typically, that would be provided either by, 435 00:16:32,045 --> 00:16:34,945 the cell companies on their licensed spectrum or 436 00:16:35,085 --> 00:16:35,565 using, 437 00:16:36,445 --> 00:16:38,945 CBRS with 3.5 gigahertz spectrum. 438 00:16:39,379 --> 00:16:41,139 Right. Which would be a wireless Internet service 439 00:16:41,139 --> 00:16:43,620 provider, WISP. Local WISP is what I would 440 00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:45,059 think that's So it could be a WISP 441 00:16:45,059 --> 00:16:47,559 or a ASAL company. Yes. Yeah. Okay. 442 00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:48,440 So 443 00:16:49,379 --> 00:16:50,200 dot meant, 444 00:16:50,580 --> 00:16:52,519 just to give you kind of a flavor 445 00:16:52,659 --> 00:16:54,200 of the numbers, is, 446 00:16:54,815 --> 00:16:56,514 in 2022, 447 00:16:57,054 --> 00:16:58,514 roughly 10% 448 00:16:58,654 --> 00:16:59,715 of US 449 00:17:00,335 --> 00:17:00,835 locations, 450 00:17:02,495 --> 00:17:04,894 so locations, think homes, but it's a little 451 00:17:04,894 --> 00:17:05,634 more general, 452 00:17:06,335 --> 00:17:08,275 did not have access to 453 00:17:08,815 --> 00:17:10,115 hundred megabit broadband. 454 00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:12,950 So right. Most most of those locations are 455 00:17:12,950 --> 00:17:15,130 obviously gonna be in rural areas, 456 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:16,250 but 457 00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:17,450 not exclusively. 458 00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:19,750 Yeah. Well, a lot of them will also 459 00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:20,730 be actually 460 00:17:21,589 --> 00:17:23,369 neighborhoods with older homes. 461 00:17:24,965 --> 00:17:26,884 Some of them, at least, will be neighborhoods 462 00:17:26,884 --> 00:17:29,065 with older homes in downtown areas 463 00:17:29,684 --> 00:17:32,725 where it's very difficult to dig cable. It's 464 00:17:32,725 --> 00:17:34,965 very difficult to do wire to do fixed 465 00:17:34,965 --> 00:17:36,985 Wi Fi or fixed wireless 466 00:17:37,399 --> 00:17:39,240 because of the buildings and because of just 467 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:39,980 the terrain. 468 00:17:40,519 --> 00:17:41,019 And 469 00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:42,059 they're 470 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,539 not necessarily wealthy neighborhoods 471 00:17:45,319 --> 00:17:46,140 per se 472 00:17:46,519 --> 00:17:48,059 in downtownish areas. 473 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,279 Or the other thing I could see that 474 00:17:50,279 --> 00:17:51,740 being a lot of would be 475 00:17:52,224 --> 00:17:53,444 multi housing units. 476 00:17:53,984 --> 00:17:55,904 I don't know what they're officially called, like, 477 00:17:55,904 --> 00:17:56,404 but 478 00:17:56,944 --> 00:17:58,244 but apartment complexes 479 00:17:58,625 --> 00:17:59,365 that are 480 00:17:59,984 --> 00:18:02,304 twenty, thirty years old, that were built twenty, 481 00:18:02,304 --> 00:18:02,944 thirty years old 482 00:18:03,585 --> 00:18:04,325 years ago, 483 00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:07,680 and even converted hotels. Hotels have been converted 484 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,259 to housing. 485 00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:09,460 And they just 486 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,380 they're concrete wall. 487 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:12,180 They're 488 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,080 thick wall. You really can't use fixed wireless 489 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:17,380 access in these places. 490 00:18:18,194 --> 00:18:21,335 Putting cable through the wall is, like, prohibitively 491 00:18:21,554 --> 00:18:22,054 expensive. 492 00:18:23,474 --> 00:18:25,174 So, in fact, I remember 493 00:18:25,554 --> 00:18:27,414 many years ago when I first got networking, 494 00:18:27,634 --> 00:18:30,294 we were working at a lawyer's office, and 495 00:18:30,619 --> 00:18:33,100 they wanted Ethernet they wanted network in all 496 00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:33,759 their rooms. 497 00:18:34,059 --> 00:18:36,059 And so all these other contractors came in 498 00:18:36,059 --> 00:18:38,220 and said, we'll we'll dig out all your 499 00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:40,140 walls, and we'll put in we'll put in, 500 00:18:40,140 --> 00:18:42,160 you know, cat cat three at the time. 501 00:18:42,859 --> 00:18:45,224 And they said, well, we have asbestos in 502 00:18:45,224 --> 00:18:47,005 the walls. It's gotta be abated. 503 00:18:47,625 --> 00:18:49,065 And they started looking at the cost of 504 00:18:49,065 --> 00:18:51,785 asbestos abatement, and they were like, we just 505 00:18:51,785 --> 00:18:54,204 can't afford to do this. Like, it's just 506 00:18:54,424 --> 00:18:56,950 too much money to run cat three. And 507 00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:58,630 the walls are lath and plaster. It doesn't 508 00:18:58,630 --> 00:19:00,710 work really well with Wi Fi at that 509 00:19:00,710 --> 00:19:02,630 time. I suppose it might be better now, 510 00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:03,610 but back then. 511 00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:07,830 And so my company, not that I owned 512 00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:09,190 it or anything, but the company I worked 513 00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:11,210 for said, we're gonna use 514 00:19:11,815 --> 00:19:12,315 ARCHANET 515 00:19:13,575 --> 00:19:15,515 because it runs over CAT one, 516 00:19:16,695 --> 00:19:18,934 and there's CAT one in the walls for 517 00:19:18,934 --> 00:19:19,434 telco. 518 00:19:20,134 --> 00:19:22,375 And so we're just gonna consume the telco 519 00:19:22,375 --> 00:19:24,555 cables, 50% of the telco cables, 520 00:19:25,309 --> 00:19:27,710 and we'll give you IP. And I only 521 00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:29,549 think it was five meg or I don't 522 00:19:29,549 --> 00:19:31,789 I don't even know. ArcNET is really slow. 523 00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:33,549 So but that's the kind of situation you 524 00:19:33,549 --> 00:19:35,869 run into with these things that that kind 525 00:19:35,869 --> 00:19:36,769 of make it 526 00:19:37,230 --> 00:19:39,410 really hard to get high speed Internet 527 00:19:39,765 --> 00:19:41,224 into some of these locations. 528 00:19:42,164 --> 00:19:43,305 Yes. So 529 00:19:44,644 --> 00:19:45,305 at least 530 00:19:46,724 --> 00:19:48,984 based on so, the availability 531 00:19:49,365 --> 00:19:50,825 was based on 532 00:19:52,130 --> 00:19:54,069 claims by the service providers, 533 00:19:54,929 --> 00:19:57,909 and not so that by necessity. 534 00:19:58,210 --> 00:19:59,349 So maybe as 535 00:20:00,769 --> 00:20:01,589 a a backstop 536 00:20:02,049 --> 00:20:03,190 or as a background, 537 00:20:04,445 --> 00:20:05,505 one of the fundamental 538 00:20:06,045 --> 00:20:07,184 questions that 539 00:20:07,884 --> 00:20:10,445 if somebody hears about, like, oh, yeah. We 540 00:20:10,445 --> 00:20:12,765 want to deploy broadband to all locations that 541 00:20:12,765 --> 00:20:16,125 don't have hundred megabit broadband, say, is the 542 00:20:16,125 --> 00:20:17,664 next natural questions. 543 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,660 How do you know which locations those are? 544 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:21,220 And 545 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,140 that actually turned out to be a critical 546 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:25,700 issue 547 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,140 simply because 548 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:29,380 you have, 549 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,819 two choices. 550 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,779 Namely, one is you just have the government 551 00:20:33,994 --> 00:20:36,154 decide these other locations that don't have it, 552 00:20:36,154 --> 00:20:38,575 but how would they know? I or, 553 00:20:39,275 --> 00:20:42,414 you use a reporting mechanism where the providers 554 00:20:42,634 --> 00:20:45,355 report where they believe or where they are 555 00:20:45,355 --> 00:20:46,414 currently offering, 556 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,859 different speeds of broadband. 557 00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:51,580 So generally speaking, 558 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,960 is that in more urban, multi dwelling units, 559 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:56,859 apartment buildings 560 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,180 is in recent years, 561 00:20:59,494 --> 00:21:02,375 at least the cable companies claim, it's primarily 562 00:21:02,375 --> 00:21:03,515 been the cable companies, 563 00:21:04,295 --> 00:21:07,335 they can provide a hundred megabit download and 564 00:21:07,335 --> 00:21:09,275 20 megabit upload speed. 565 00:21:09,654 --> 00:21:12,315 Whether that is always truly the case 566 00:21:13,409 --> 00:21:16,149 is up for debate. We can probably discuss 567 00:21:16,450 --> 00:21:18,369 one aspect of that a little bit later 568 00:21:18,369 --> 00:21:20,049 as part of what's known as the challenge 569 00:21:20,049 --> 00:21:20,549 process. 570 00:21:21,329 --> 00:21:22,470 But in general, 571 00:21:23,089 --> 00:21:23,750 the availability 572 00:21:24,914 --> 00:21:28,515 determination on first cut was based on the 573 00:21:28,515 --> 00:21:30,055 declared service availability, 574 00:21:31,154 --> 00:21:31,654 in, 575 00:21:32,515 --> 00:21:33,015 MDUs, 576 00:21:34,035 --> 00:21:37,095 apartment buildings, or in homes or small businesses. 577 00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:40,480 You know, not on necessarily 578 00:21:40,859 --> 00:21:41,759 actual availability, 579 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:44,859 you're not and as you pointed out, in 580 00:21:44,859 --> 00:21:46,079 many older buildings, 581 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:51,200 infrastructure the wired infrastructure is often very old, 582 00:21:51,339 --> 00:21:53,615 very hard to replace. And because of a 583 00:21:53,615 --> 00:21:56,575 construction, particularly in, in big cities where you 584 00:21:56,575 --> 00:21:57,954 don't have wood construction, 585 00:21:58,815 --> 00:22:01,474 even installing Wi Fi is challenging 586 00:22:01,934 --> 00:22:04,355 because of wiring or because of propagation. 587 00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:09,269 Yeah. Yeah. And this is this is a 588 00:22:09,269 --> 00:22:10,730 very, like, you know, 589 00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:14,630 this is very contentious. Again, this is another 590 00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:17,289 contentious part of it. Is is the mapping 591 00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:20,150 can the mapping be trusted? What does it 592 00:22:20,150 --> 00:22:21,924 really mean? I know 593 00:22:22,304 --> 00:22:25,204 for WISP, for for for fixed Wi Fi 594 00:22:25,265 --> 00:22:27,525 or for fixed wireless access, FWA, 595 00:22:28,065 --> 00:22:29,585 I know the other problem we run into 596 00:22:29,585 --> 00:22:30,644 a lot of times is 597 00:22:31,345 --> 00:22:31,845 FWA 598 00:22:32,224 --> 00:22:32,724 drops 599 00:22:33,505 --> 00:22:34,644 in terms of 600 00:22:35,789 --> 00:22:38,509 the bandwidth available the further you get away 601 00:22:38,509 --> 00:22:39,330 from the tower. 602 00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:41,890 And so so 603 00:22:42,269 --> 00:22:44,269 they say, we have a tower that serves 604 00:22:44,269 --> 00:22:47,150 a five mile radius around the tower. But 605 00:22:47,150 --> 00:22:49,309 in reality, the people at five miles out 606 00:22:49,309 --> 00:22:51,005 are getting, like, you 607 00:22:52,184 --> 00:22:53,484 know, very low bandwidth. 608 00:22:53,785 --> 00:22:55,625 And the people right up against the tower 609 00:22:55,625 --> 00:22:58,345 are getting great bandwidth. And they say, well, 610 00:22:58,345 --> 00:22:59,805 but it's an even dispersion. 611 00:23:00,664 --> 00:23:02,204 Well, not really. 612 00:23:02,904 --> 00:23:03,404 And 613 00:23:04,664 --> 00:23:06,045 that's certainly been 614 00:23:06,430 --> 00:23:07,789 a concern. I 615 00:23:09,630 --> 00:23:11,009 and so fixed wireless 616 00:23:12,349 --> 00:23:14,909 raises its own set of concerns and particularly 617 00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:17,330 so maybe just a little bit of background. 618 00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:19,890 Until relatively recently, 619 00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:22,694 the Federal Communications Commission, Commission, since we talked 620 00:23:22,694 --> 00:23:23,994 about them early on, 621 00:23:24,295 --> 00:23:27,275 on its job was to catalog 622 00:23:27,815 --> 00:23:29,194 availability of broadband. 623 00:23:30,134 --> 00:23:31,595 They have been doing this for 624 00:23:32,134 --> 00:23:33,355 ten plus years, 625 00:23:33,734 --> 00:23:37,390 and they had a data collection, I dot 626 00:23:37,390 --> 00:23:38,529 catalog broadband 627 00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:40,210 at the level 628 00:23:40,589 --> 00:23:43,549 of the census block. So they basically said, 629 00:23:43,549 --> 00:23:44,529 hey, providers, 630 00:23:45,309 --> 00:23:48,269 twice a year, you have to submit a 631 00:23:48,269 --> 00:23:48,769 form, 632 00:23:49,150 --> 00:23:51,424 which was known as form four seventy seven. 633 00:23:51,424 --> 00:23:54,164 That's why you see that often listed on 634 00:23:54,305 --> 00:23:55,285 FCC website 635 00:23:55,664 --> 00:23:56,164 that 636 00:23:56,625 --> 00:23:59,105 we're able to yep. We offer this is 637 00:23:59,105 --> 00:24:01,105 our highest speed that we offer in that 638 00:24:01,105 --> 00:24:02,565 particular census block. 639 00:24:03,265 --> 00:24:03,505 I'm 640 00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:06,850 that data has been collected for a while 641 00:24:06,850 --> 00:24:08,289 and has been used for a number of 642 00:24:08,289 --> 00:24:09,590 broadband funding programs. 643 00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:12,630 Then it became clear 644 00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:14,309 as more locations 645 00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:18,070 be, were indeed served by higher speed broadband 646 00:24:18,335 --> 00:24:19,234 that that granularity, 647 00:24:20,015 --> 00:24:22,194 that's several hundred homes in many cases, 648 00:24:22,494 --> 00:24:24,894 I it's just not sufficient. So often what 649 00:24:24,894 --> 00:24:27,134 would happen is, you would have a few 650 00:24:27,134 --> 00:24:30,355 homes that actually did have that speed, but 651 00:24:30,829 --> 00:24:31,569 the majority 652 00:24:31,869 --> 00:24:33,410 or a significant fraction 653 00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:36,750 of that census block did not have the 654 00:24:36,750 --> 00:24:38,589 actual speed because it was at the edge 655 00:24:38,589 --> 00:24:39,730 of a service territory. 656 00:24:40,029 --> 00:24:42,130 So it overstated broadband availability. 657 00:24:43,085 --> 00:24:43,585 So 658 00:24:44,125 --> 00:24:44,704 Congress mandated 659 00:24:45,724 --> 00:24:47,984 in some corporate data act that 660 00:24:48,445 --> 00:24:51,744 the FCC actually had to collect broadband availability 661 00:24:52,445 --> 00:24:54,384 at every single individual 662 00:24:54,845 --> 00:24:55,664 street address, 663 00:24:56,125 --> 00:24:56,625 that 664 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,640 could be served by broadband as in there 665 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,279 was an actual building there, I thought, would 666 00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:05,359 subscribe to it, and and not not just 667 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,339 a plot of land. 668 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,220 And 669 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:08,079 they 670 00:25:09,484 --> 00:25:12,005 for the first time in the early, I 671 00:25:12,125 --> 00:25:14,924 well, a few years ago, started putting out 672 00:25:14,924 --> 00:25:18,065 in the first map was published in 2022. 673 00:25:18,365 --> 00:25:21,244 I we have a created a map of 674 00:25:21,244 --> 00:25:22,144 every single, 675 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,860 residential and small business location 676 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:26,380 with a contractor, 677 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,299 that would do that. 678 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,180 That clearly is quite challenging because 679 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,095 there is no single registry of even street 680 00:25:35,095 --> 00:25:37,274 addresses, let alone broadband availability 681 00:25:37,575 --> 00:25:39,575 in The United States. It is not like 682 00:25:39,575 --> 00:25:40,075 a, 683 00:25:41,335 --> 00:25:44,615 US geological survey or the census or the 684 00:25:44,615 --> 00:25:46,634 postal the postal service. 685 00:25:46,980 --> 00:25:49,880 They don't have, like, a master address list 686 00:25:50,179 --> 00:25:53,640 of every single location, particularly in rural areas 687 00:25:54,179 --> 00:25:56,339 of where houses may not actually have a 688 00:25:56,339 --> 00:25:57,079 street address. 689 00:25:57,700 --> 00:25:59,380 Or the street address might be on the 690 00:25:59,380 --> 00:26:01,460 house as in somebody painted and made up 691 00:26:01,460 --> 00:26:03,865 a number, but it's not registered anywhere. 692 00:26:04,644 --> 00:26:06,585 Or where plots get subdivided 693 00:26:06,884 --> 00:26:09,765 into two units where you have suddenly oh, 694 00:26:09,765 --> 00:26:11,865 you have an old house and, right, 695 00:26:12,244 --> 00:26:14,164 kids buy it, build a new house on 696 00:26:14,164 --> 00:26:15,065 the large property. 697 00:26:15,444 --> 00:26:15,944 And 698 00:26:17,549 --> 00:26:19,630 nobody really knows about it in any formal 699 00:26:19,630 --> 00:26:22,690 way beyond maybe the local tax assessor. I 700 00:26:23,309 --> 00:26:25,250 who Yeah. Keeps track of that. 701 00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:28,830 Or or or accessory units as they're called 702 00:26:28,830 --> 00:26:31,309 now. Rental units built on your same property. 703 00:26:31,309 --> 00:26:33,005 Right? So you build a unit to rent 704 00:26:33,005 --> 00:26:35,644 out for Airbnb or Vrbo or whatever, you 705 00:26:35,644 --> 00:26:38,044 know, all these various services they have. And 706 00:26:38,044 --> 00:26:40,605 nobody actually tracks that in some areas. It's 707 00:26:40,605 --> 00:26:41,904 just it's just built. 708 00:26:42,444 --> 00:26:44,525 And, like, you get permits on it and 709 00:26:44,525 --> 00:26:45,664 stuff like that, but, 710 00:26:46,019 --> 00:26:48,519 like, there's no high speed Internet 711 00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:51,320 necessarily or broadband to that 712 00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:52,359 at all. 713 00:26:52,740 --> 00:26:54,500 So, you know, then you have to think 714 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:56,580 about how do you classify that? Does it 715 00:26:56,580 --> 00:26:59,240 need it? Like, it's a rental unit. 716 00:26:59,585 --> 00:27:01,825 Does do people care? I don't know. You 717 00:27:01,825 --> 00:27:03,505 know? There's, like, all these questions that come 718 00:27:03,505 --> 00:27:05,744 in to So we had lots of discussions 719 00:27:05,744 --> 00:27:06,244 on 720 00:27:07,825 --> 00:27:08,325 surveys. 721 00:27:08,865 --> 00:27:10,944 Come on. In the vast majority of cases, 722 00:27:10,944 --> 00:27:12,325 it's relatively straightforward. 723 00:27:12,625 --> 00:27:15,179 It's a unit. If it's rental or even 724 00:27:15,179 --> 00:27:17,839 a mobile home, type of, unit 725 00:27:18,220 --> 00:27:20,240 where people live more or less permanently 726 00:27:20,859 --> 00:27:21,519 and if 727 00:27:22,059 --> 00:27:25,519 available, then some fraction might subscribe to services. 728 00:27:26,139 --> 00:27:27,279 But there are 729 00:27:28,304 --> 00:27:28,804 areas 730 00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:29,764 or locations 731 00:27:30,065 --> 00:27:30,565 that, 732 00:27:31,024 --> 00:27:31,764 for example, 733 00:27:32,625 --> 00:27:33,924 are vacation homes, 734 00:27:34,784 --> 00:27:35,684 hunting lodgers. 735 00:27:36,384 --> 00:27:37,044 And that 736 00:27:37,504 --> 00:27:39,444 that look from a satellite perspective, 737 00:27:39,984 --> 00:27:41,825 I'd like a home as in it's an 738 00:27:41,825 --> 00:27:44,009 enclosed building. It's not just a shed. 739 00:27:44,730 --> 00:27:48,170 And somebody could actually live there. But maybe 740 00:27:48,170 --> 00:27:50,890 they don't, to your point, don't expect to 741 00:27:50,890 --> 00:27:51,390 actually 742 00:27:52,009 --> 00:27:55,470 subscribe to Internet service because they're only spending, 743 00:27:55,849 --> 00:27:59,025 like, the fall hunting season there. And five 744 00:27:59,025 --> 00:28:01,345 would they subscribe to broadband there. If we're 745 00:28:01,345 --> 00:28:03,445 lucky, they have cell phone service there. 746 00:28:04,144 --> 00:28:04,644 So 747 00:28:05,105 --> 00:28:06,805 there's some of that. I've 748 00:28:07,424 --> 00:28:10,705 and you also have as actually has been 749 00:28:10,705 --> 00:28:13,505 a problem, like in, you have homes that 750 00:28:13,505 --> 00:28:14,700 are no longer occupied. 751 00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:17,759 But that didn't turn out to 752 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:22,700 be, percentage wise, is not as larger problem. 753 00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:23,759 It's at the margins. 754 00:28:24,139 --> 00:28:25,440 Just simply cataloging 755 00:28:25,980 --> 00:28:26,880 all the locations 756 00:28:27,899 --> 00:28:28,399 and 757 00:28:28,924 --> 00:28:31,105 making sure that with service providers, 758 00:28:32,044 --> 00:28:34,625 we port service at that location. 759 00:28:35,244 --> 00:28:36,224 Just as a 760 00:28:36,525 --> 00:28:37,345 for example, 761 00:28:37,644 --> 00:28:40,684 is because many of these locations don't have 762 00:28:40,684 --> 00:28:43,559 an agreed upon street address as in they 763 00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:45,099 might be listed as, 764 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:46,220 whatever, 765 00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:47,899 12000, 766 00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:50,139 County Highway 95, 767 00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:52,539 and they might have a name on it. 768 00:28:53,159 --> 00:28:55,000 And they may have some other street name 769 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,139 based on some historical, 770 00:28:56,919 --> 00:28:59,079 name that was used when based, 771 00:28:59,535 --> 00:29:00,755 houses were built. 772 00:29:01,134 --> 00:29:03,315 They may have only a rural route number 773 00:29:03,375 --> 00:29:05,615 in some cases because they don't get mail 774 00:29:05,615 --> 00:29:06,115 delivery. 775 00:29:06,734 --> 00:29:08,674 And so they have a, 776 00:29:09,934 --> 00:29:12,894 the service provider might actually have the billing 777 00:29:12,894 --> 00:29:14,275 record for that location 778 00:29:14,819 --> 00:29:17,640 under a different street address than the homeowner 779 00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:20,039 gets mail delivered or that It's 780 00:29:20,339 --> 00:29:21,399 not packages for. 781 00:29:22,259 --> 00:29:24,659 What is what is bead what's the objective? 782 00:29:24,659 --> 00:29:26,099 I mean, there's it sounds like there's lots 783 00:29:26,099 --> 00:29:27,859 of ways to count houses and whatnot, but 784 00:29:27,859 --> 00:29:29,299 what what is bead's on top of this? 785 00:29:29,299 --> 00:29:29,880 The objective 786 00:29:30,944 --> 00:29:32,345 is very simple in one sentence. Tom's trying 787 00:29:32,345 --> 00:29:33,845 to bring us back to reality. 788 00:29:35,345 --> 00:29:36,884 The objective is to get, 789 00:29:38,065 --> 00:29:41,424 hundred megabit broadband to every single location that 790 00:29:41,424 --> 00:29:43,825 currently does not have it. That's the one 791 00:29:43,825 --> 00:29:44,804 sentence objective. 792 00:29:45,169 --> 00:29:47,409 So for that, you have to basically do 793 00:29:47,409 --> 00:29:49,490 two things, then we decide who didn't have 794 00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:51,730 it. That's all all of our discussion about 795 00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:52,230 houses. 796 00:29:53,089 --> 00:29:54,549 And you have to decide 797 00:29:55,329 --> 00:29:55,829 who 798 00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:59,424 is gonna deploy broadband how to those locations 799 00:29:59,644 --> 00:30:00,865 because some of those, 800 00:30:01,884 --> 00:30:03,664 think Alaska or Wyoming 801 00:30:04,045 --> 00:30:05,184 or Puerto Rico 802 00:30:05,565 --> 00:30:06,065 are 803 00:30:06,765 --> 00:30:10,045 challenging in a variety of ways. I as 804 00:30:10,045 --> 00:30:12,144 in they may be on an, 805 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:14,410 Indian reservation. They may be, 806 00:30:14,869 --> 00:30:15,369 in 807 00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:17,690 remote areas that don't even have roads, 808 00:30:18,150 --> 00:30:18,809 like Alaska. 809 00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:20,970 I or they may be in, 810 00:30:21,910 --> 00:30:24,490 not a state, but a territory like Puerto 811 00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:26,650 Rico. And so you have 812 00:30:27,815 --> 00:30:30,934 those two issues. But the basic goal is 813 00:30:30,934 --> 00:30:32,394 where possible, again, 814 00:30:32,775 --> 00:30:33,515 money availability 815 00:30:34,055 --> 00:30:36,075 may make that infeasible 816 00:30:36,694 --> 00:30:39,095 on every location that currently does not have 817 00:30:39,095 --> 00:30:40,315 it. With 10% 818 00:30:40,570 --> 00:30:41,390 starting out, 819 00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:44,029 you should get at least a hundred megabits, 820 00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:45,230 preferably more. 821 00:30:46,090 --> 00:30:48,570 So how do how does how does Bede 822 00:30:48,570 --> 00:30:50,650 keep this just from being a piggy bank 823 00:30:50,650 --> 00:30:51,630 for the largest, 824 00:30:52,009 --> 00:30:54,654 telcos and just, free money for them? 825 00:30:55,035 --> 00:30:56,015 Yes. So, 826 00:30:57,195 --> 00:30:58,734 a bid is and that's, 827 00:30:59,674 --> 00:31:02,154 That that's another huge area of argument, by 828 00:31:02,154 --> 00:31:03,115 the way, Tom. So 829 00:31:03,755 --> 00:31:05,295 yeah. I know. I know. And 830 00:31:06,555 --> 00:31:07,055 so 831 00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:08,900 a simple question, a, 832 00:31:10,019 --> 00:31:10,759 a longer 833 00:31:11,059 --> 00:31:13,000 answer is so 834 00:31:13,299 --> 00:31:13,380 I 835 00:31:15,619 --> 00:31:16,200 unlike previous, 836 00:31:17,380 --> 00:31:20,845 federal programs, so as your your listeners probably 837 00:31:20,845 --> 00:31:23,265 know, is the FCC in particular, but also, 838 00:31:23,724 --> 00:31:25,964 US Department of Agriculture and a bunch of 839 00:31:25,964 --> 00:31:27,904 other federal agency during COVID. 840 00:31:28,204 --> 00:31:29,345 I have 841 00:31:29,964 --> 00:31:31,265 tried to cover 842 00:31:31,644 --> 00:31:33,265 these locations that I mentioned, 843 00:31:33,644 --> 00:31:34,440 and not. 844 00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:36,940 Generally, in both cases, 845 00:31:38,119 --> 00:31:38,619 primarily 846 00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:41,559 agriculture and the FCC had a central bidding 847 00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:44,359 mechanism where the companies typically lodge, but not 848 00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:44,859 necessarily, 849 00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:47,899 would bid on locations or areas, 850 00:31:48,535 --> 00:31:50,855 and then get funding to build out those 851 00:31:50,855 --> 00:31:51,355 locations. 852 00:31:52,214 --> 00:31:53,434 I forbid 853 00:31:54,535 --> 00:31:55,275 the mechanism 854 00:31:55,815 --> 00:31:56,315 because 855 00:31:56,695 --> 00:31:57,195 of 856 00:31:58,295 --> 00:31:59,634 the experience that, 857 00:32:00,134 --> 00:32:02,214 during some of his grant programs states had 858 00:32:02,214 --> 00:32:05,109 that let them to try something else 859 00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:07,890 is actually delegated down to the states. So 860 00:32:07,890 --> 00:32:09,509 every state and territory 861 00:32:10,369 --> 00:32:10,869 has 862 00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:14,450 a role to determine who is gonna get 863 00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:16,230 that money, and they can impose 864 00:32:16,865 --> 00:32:19,505 conditions on that. They can't exclude somebody. As 865 00:32:19,505 --> 00:32:21,505 I said, you're too big. We can't we 866 00:32:21,505 --> 00:32:22,725 won't let you bid. 867 00:32:24,225 --> 00:32:25,365 But they can certainly 868 00:32:26,625 --> 00:32:27,125 include 869 00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:30,180 providers that are 870 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,820 not big. Actually, as it turns out, 871 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,539 for many of those rural areas, 872 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,600 the neighbor provider is like one of the 873 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:40,400 West that, 874 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,100 Wes was talking about, 875 00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:43,539 or 876 00:32:43,945 --> 00:32:47,164 more recently because of other earlier funding programs 877 00:32:47,625 --> 00:32:48,765 is your local, 878 00:32:49,865 --> 00:32:52,184 co op electric utilities, what are called rural 879 00:32:52,184 --> 00:32:55,144 electric co ops that, provide electric service or 880 00:32:55,305 --> 00:32:57,785 and have provided electric service since the nineteen 881 00:32:57,785 --> 00:32:59,164 thirties and nineteen forties. 882 00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:00,259 I 883 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,619 and many of those earlier programs have actually 884 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,080 started to dole out money to that. And 885 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:06,580 as 886 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,680 early indications are, where we are in BEED 887 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:10,799 right now, is, 888 00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:14,240 many of our smaller providers actually are bidding 889 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:14,714 on it 890 00:33:15,194 --> 00:33:15,694 because 891 00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:18,474 we are already in that county or we 892 00:33:18,474 --> 00:33:20,634 are at least closer by, and they have 893 00:33:20,794 --> 00:33:23,934 their business model is more attractive even with 894 00:33:23,994 --> 00:33:26,154 subsidy than for the large ones. So 895 00:33:26,634 --> 00:33:27,134 Yeah. 896 00:33:27,950 --> 00:33:30,349 But states And and people do startups. I'm 897 00:33:30,349 --> 00:33:32,750 sorry? Yeah. And people do startups in this 898 00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:35,470 space as well. People people actually look at 899 00:33:35,470 --> 00:33:37,309 the grant and say there's enough grant money 900 00:33:37,309 --> 00:33:38,529 for me to get started 901 00:33:39,549 --> 00:33:40,269 digging enough 902 00:33:40,670 --> 00:33:41,890 getting enough passings 903 00:33:43,445 --> 00:33:45,845 to get a business started to all start. 904 00:33:45,845 --> 00:33:47,605 Yeah. Right. So Kind of a So I'm 905 00:33:47,605 --> 00:33:48,085 curious. 906 00:33:48,644 --> 00:33:50,005 There's been a number of people in the 907 00:33:50,005 --> 00:33:51,785 network engineering community who have, 908 00:33:52,244 --> 00:33:54,484 basically started their own provider just so they 909 00:33:54,484 --> 00:33:55,765 can get their own service. They're out in 910 00:33:55,765 --> 00:33:56,730 the middle of nowhere. 911 00:33:57,369 --> 00:33:59,529 What's the feasibility of using a program like 912 00:33:59,529 --> 00:34:01,769 this? Say you buy some farmland in Missouri 913 00:34:01,769 --> 00:34:03,609 and you can get a few people to 914 00:34:03,609 --> 00:34:05,450 kind of band with you. Is that money 915 00:34:05,450 --> 00:34:07,450 available for someone who wants to do something 916 00:34:07,450 --> 00:34:09,070 like that? Yes. So 917 00:34:11,154 --> 00:34:11,894 the constraints 918 00:34:12,355 --> 00:34:15,894 are really in two dimensions. Namely, one is 919 00:34:17,394 --> 00:34:20,034 the areas that you bid on is in 920 00:34:20,034 --> 00:34:23,174 many states, about half of states really, are 921 00:34:23,394 --> 00:34:23,894 in 922 00:34:24,849 --> 00:34:27,409 chunks of area as opposed to individual locations. 923 00:34:27,409 --> 00:34:29,409 So you can't just have one location or 924 00:34:29,409 --> 00:34:31,969 10. You probably have to serve at least 925 00:34:31,969 --> 00:34:33,489 in most states, I would say a few 926 00:34:33,489 --> 00:34:34,949 hundred in most cases. 927 00:34:35,409 --> 00:34:38,130 So your super micro startup that is just 928 00:34:38,130 --> 00:34:39,109 serving a neighborhood 929 00:34:39,650 --> 00:34:41,945 might have trouble if they don't want to 930 00:34:41,945 --> 00:34:42,445 professionalize 931 00:34:42,744 --> 00:34:44,364 sort of side to do that. 932 00:34:44,905 --> 00:34:46,605 The second part is 933 00:34:46,905 --> 00:34:47,545 so that's 934 00:34:48,184 --> 00:34:50,364 it probably doesn't make sense to apply 935 00:34:50,664 --> 00:34:53,224 for just a few location unless you're already 936 00:34:53,224 --> 00:34:54,765 in the business, like, 937 00:34:55,610 --> 00:34:56,829 for other reasons. 938 00:34:57,210 --> 00:34:59,369 You can extend that. And indeed, there have 939 00:34:59,369 --> 00:35:02,409 been winners in the early grant cycles that 940 00:35:02,409 --> 00:35:03,469 have already concluded, 941 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:06,809 like in Nevada and Louisiana, which are two 942 00:35:06,809 --> 00:35:10,250 states, fairly rural states, where the process has 943 00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:11,144 already finished, 944 00:35:11,545 --> 00:35:12,765 the allocation process, 945 00:35:13,144 --> 00:35:15,144 is that you actually had windows that only 946 00:35:15,144 --> 00:35:18,125 had, like, 50 locations because they were units 947 00:35:18,184 --> 00:35:18,844 that small. 948 00:35:19,704 --> 00:35:20,844 The second one, 949 00:35:21,545 --> 00:35:23,485 which is somewhat state specific 950 00:35:24,184 --> 00:35:24,684 is 951 00:35:25,380 --> 00:35:27,079 that states have the obligation 952 00:35:27,460 --> 00:35:29,559 to ensure that any bidder 953 00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:33,799 is actually financially and technically capable of delivering 954 00:35:34,099 --> 00:35:34,839 on their 955 00:35:35,779 --> 00:35:36,279 bid 956 00:35:36,819 --> 00:35:37,319 because 957 00:35:38,204 --> 00:35:41,405 of bad experiences in previous grand rounds that 958 00:35:41,405 --> 00:35:43,325 were done by the FCC and other in 959 00:35:43,325 --> 00:35:45,265 state entities and USDA. 960 00:35:46,605 --> 00:35:48,864 You had entities that took the money 961 00:35:49,244 --> 00:35:50,785 and let's say let's be 962 00:35:51,230 --> 00:35:54,530 charitable. They believed that they actually could deliver 963 00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:56,130 and then discovered 964 00:35:56,429 --> 00:35:58,289 that was harder than they thought. 965 00:35:58,829 --> 00:35:59,489 As in, 966 00:36:00,829 --> 00:36:03,309 their business model didn't quite work out or 967 00:36:03,309 --> 00:36:04,609 they couldn't get financing 968 00:36:05,069 --> 00:36:05,569 or 969 00:36:06,074 --> 00:36:08,094 they didn't have a technology capability 970 00:36:08,394 --> 00:36:09,214 or people 971 00:36:09,755 --> 00:36:12,974 all started started more recently subscribing to Starlink 972 00:36:13,034 --> 00:36:15,275 instead. So they didn't get the customers and 973 00:36:15,275 --> 00:36:16,574 so they had to 974 00:36:17,034 --> 00:36:20,170 close down the business overall or whatever it 975 00:36:20,170 --> 00:36:22,250 happened to be. There's been a number of 976 00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:23,309 companies, unfortunately. 977 00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:24,750 I 978 00:36:25,769 --> 00:36:26,269 both 979 00:36:26,890 --> 00:36:29,710 parts of big companies that took lands and, 980 00:36:30,090 --> 00:36:31,550 a number of smaller companies 981 00:36:31,849 --> 00:36:33,735 where one company that's got, 982 00:36:35,735 --> 00:36:36,795 his name is, 983 00:36:37,255 --> 00:36:39,355 cited quite often as kind of a 984 00:36:39,974 --> 00:36:42,075 glowing example called LTD. 985 00:36:42,695 --> 00:36:45,114 And, to bid on a lot of FCC 986 00:36:45,175 --> 00:36:46,795 funds and ended up, 987 00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:51,099 not getting those NBN because the perception was 988 00:36:51,099 --> 00:36:53,260 it just couldn't deliver it. And others who 989 00:36:53,260 --> 00:36:56,000 have defaulted, others smaller to midsize providers 990 00:36:56,780 --> 00:36:59,420 who have defaulted on their early obligations. So 991 00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:01,905 your hypothetical neighborhood association 992 00:37:02,684 --> 00:37:05,184 would have to show to the satisfaction 993 00:37:05,484 --> 00:37:06,304 of a state 994 00:37:06,844 --> 00:37:09,505 that they are capable financially and technically 995 00:37:10,045 --> 00:37:10,784 to deliver 996 00:37:11,244 --> 00:37:12,304 service because 997 00:37:13,405 --> 00:37:14,065 you don't, 998 00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:16,889 a, there's a fraud risk. People will take 999 00:37:16,889 --> 00:37:19,369 money and run, but there's also a risk 1000 00:37:19,369 --> 00:37:21,710 since this is a one time program. 1001 00:37:22,489 --> 00:37:24,329 If you find yourself, you bid it out 1002 00:37:24,329 --> 00:37:26,670 to a promising looking neighborhood association, 1003 00:37:27,965 --> 00:37:30,364 that didn't quite get back together, then all 1004 00:37:30,364 --> 00:37:32,684 those locations in year two and three when 1005 00:37:32,684 --> 00:37:34,704 it's obvious that they're not gonna deliver, 1006 00:37:35,485 --> 00:37:37,405 and they say, sorry. It didn't work out. 1007 00:37:37,405 --> 00:37:39,644 We tried, but, man, it didn't quite we 1008 00:37:39,644 --> 00:37:40,545 can't do it. 1009 00:37:40,844 --> 00:37:42,525 Then what are you gonna do with those 1010 00:37:42,525 --> 00:37:43,025 locations? 1011 00:37:43,380 --> 00:37:45,000 Because the program is over. 1012 00:37:46,260 --> 00:37:48,260 You may not have money left to do 1013 00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:50,839 it, and there's no obvious way to reallocate 1014 00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:53,000 the money for whatever reasons. So, 1015 00:37:53,779 --> 00:37:54,839 you have a 1016 00:37:55,380 --> 00:37:56,819 a bit of a risk that the state 1017 00:37:56,819 --> 00:37:57,960 takes at that point. 1018 00:37:58,994 --> 00:37:59,494 Cool. 1019 00:37:59,795 --> 00:38:01,315 Well, we actually need to wrap up. This 1020 00:38:01,315 --> 00:38:03,554 is a very fascinating topic, though. And I 1021 00:38:03,554 --> 00:38:05,894 don't think a lot of network engineers know 1022 00:38:06,355 --> 00:38:09,014 about all of the side revenue or side 1023 00:38:09,474 --> 00:38:11,815 avenues to go into to think about 1024 00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:14,510 starting a WISP or, you know, starting a 1025 00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:16,210 small business doing this or, 1026 00:38:16,909 --> 00:38:19,230 just, you know, all these little providers that 1027 00:38:19,230 --> 00:38:20,929 might be out there doing stuff. 1028 00:38:22,349 --> 00:38:23,730 So, yeah, I don't know. 1029 00:38:24,349 --> 00:38:26,190 Any more comments before we wrap up? Because 1030 00:38:26,190 --> 00:38:27,630 I know it's, like, we got, like, two 1031 00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:28,984 minutes, so we need to wrap 1032 00:38:30,884 --> 00:38:34,005 up. So anything hinting, before we wrap up? 1033 00:38:34,005 --> 00:38:36,565 And we we can continue the conversation later 1034 00:38:36,565 --> 00:38:37,605 if you want to if you want to 1035 00:38:37,605 --> 00:38:40,484 create another do another recording. But Yeah. We 1036 00:38:40,484 --> 00:38:43,579 can do that. Because I started at the, 1037 00:38:45,099 --> 00:38:47,260 kind of a beginning where we are it's 1038 00:38:47,260 --> 00:38:49,599 just to kind of give a a snapshot 1039 00:38:50,219 --> 00:38:52,960 of wherever a program is. So currently, 1040 00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:54,000 on 1041 00:38:54,380 --> 00:38:57,325 most states have completed what is known as 1042 00:38:57,325 --> 00:38:59,905 the challenge process where community organizations 1043 00:39:00,285 --> 00:39:00,785 could 1044 00:39:01,244 --> 00:39:02,945 collect the maps that the FCC 1045 00:39:03,244 --> 00:39:05,345 based on provider input provided, 1046 00:39:07,325 --> 00:39:08,590 which then, 1047 00:39:09,130 --> 00:39:12,590 made additional locations available or removed some locations 1048 00:39:12,730 --> 00:39:13,550 from consideration. 1049 00:39:14,250 --> 00:39:14,750 And 1050 00:39:15,050 --> 00:39:17,530 then states will be in the allocation phase, 1051 00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:20,010 which will be taking place assuming when your 1052 00:39:20,010 --> 00:39:20,510 administration 1053 00:39:20,969 --> 00:39:22,730 doesn't change its mind. I'm on all of 1054 00:39:22,730 --> 00:39:23,050 that, 1055 00:39:24,224 --> 00:39:26,164 this year largely. And then, 1056 00:39:26,945 --> 00:39:29,985 service providers have four years to build out 1057 00:39:29,985 --> 00:39:31,365 service. So we're talking 1058 00:39:31,825 --> 00:39:33,345 starting in 2026 1059 00:39:33,345 --> 00:39:36,780 largely. I know I'm on reasonable prediction. Like 1060 00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:38,160 I said, three states, 1061 00:39:39,099 --> 00:39:41,420 have already completed that. They have they can 1062 00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:42,239 start now. 1063 00:39:42,539 --> 00:39:43,440 But we have a, 1064 00:39:44,059 --> 00:39:47,980 53 entities, states, and territories will probably start 1065 00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:49,920 building in 2026. 1066 00:39:50,954 --> 00:39:52,954 Cool. Awesome. Well, let's do another show on 1067 00:39:52,954 --> 00:39:54,474 this because this is interesting, but we do 1068 00:39:54,474 --> 00:39:57,114 need to wrap up. So Henning, where can 1069 00:39:57,114 --> 00:39:59,775 people find you or follow you if they 1070 00:40:00,075 --> 00:40:02,255 want to? I I assume 1071 00:40:02,715 --> 00:40:04,555 you might you might blog or at least 1072 00:40:04,555 --> 00:40:05,934 LinkedIn or something. Right? 1073 00:40:06,849 --> 00:40:08,630 Excuse me. I'm not currently blogging. 1074 00:40:09,809 --> 00:40:10,309 Okay. 1075 00:40:10,769 --> 00:40:12,070 So I'm on, 1076 00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:13,409 Blue Sky, 1077 00:40:13,889 --> 00:40:15,670 so they can follow me then. 1078 00:40:16,050 --> 00:40:18,690 And my last name is officially unique. You 1079 00:40:18,690 --> 00:40:20,550 probably won't have difficulty finding 1080 00:40:21,474 --> 00:40:22,835 it. Okay. We'll put that in the show 1081 00:40:22,835 --> 00:40:25,574 notes. Alright. Tom, where can people find you? 1082 00:40:25,875 --> 00:40:26,375 LinkedIn. 1083 00:40:27,635 --> 00:40:30,114 So, so easy. Alright. I'm Russ White. You 1084 00:40:30,114 --> 00:40:31,574 can find me here on the hedge 1085 00:40:31,954 --> 00:40:34,599 at rule 11 Tech. You can find me 1086 00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:37,579 on LinkedIn and on x as routing geek. 1087 00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:40,119 And I don't know. I'm I'm not on 1088 00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:41,639 all those places all the time, but I'm 1089 00:40:41,639 --> 00:40:43,159 fairly easy to find. So if you wanna 1090 00:40:43,159 --> 00:40:45,320 find me, make suggestions for the show or 1091 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:45,820 whatever, 1092 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,599 we thank you very much for listening all 1093 00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:49,454 the way to the 1094 00:40:50,015 --> 00:40:52,515 bitter end of this episode of The Hedge. 1095 00:40:53,135 --> 00:40:54,414 We know that we live in an attention 1096 00:40:54,414 --> 00:40:56,515 driven economy, and we do thank you for 1097 00:40:56,575 --> 00:40:58,414 spending the time listening to us. Thank you 1098 00:40:58,414 --> 00:41:00,894 for handing hinting for coming on, and we 1099 00:41:00,894 --> 00:41:01,469 will catch 1100 00:41:03,469 --> 00:41:03,969 you 1101 00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:05,900 next time.