1 00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:10,000 Welcome to The Landscape, your show about America's 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,480 Parks and Public Lands. I'm Erin Weiss with 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,085 the Center For Western Priorities in Denver. And 4 00:00:15,085 --> 00:00:17,105 I'm Kate Gratzinger in Salt Lake City. 5 00:00:17,484 --> 00:00:19,245 We've got a great episode for you today 6 00:00:19,245 --> 00:00:21,804 about a story that's unfolding in Nevada's Ash 7 00:00:21,804 --> 00:00:24,765 Meadows National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge is home 8 00:00:24,765 --> 00:00:27,824 to the famous or infamous Devil's Hole Pupfish, 9 00:00:28,210 --> 00:00:30,449 which is undergoing a big rebrand right now, 10 00:00:30,449 --> 00:00:33,409 thanks to nearby lithium mining interest. I don't 11 00:00:33,409 --> 00:00:34,689 wanna give too much of that away, but 12 00:00:34,689 --> 00:00:36,530 you're gonna wanna stay tuned for this one. 13 00:00:36,530 --> 00:00:37,829 But first, the news. 14 00:00:38,289 --> 00:00:39,989 Well, I'm gonna use this opportunity 15 00:00:40,289 --> 00:00:42,835 to plug us and a report that Kate 16 00:00:42,835 --> 00:00:45,234 and I released last week. It is called 17 00:00:45,234 --> 00:00:46,454 the National Monuments 18 00:00:46,835 --> 00:00:47,335 Disinformation 19 00:00:47,795 --> 00:00:48,295 Brigade. 20 00:00:48,674 --> 00:00:51,475 This is a who's who guide to the 21 00:00:51,475 --> 00:00:54,214 crowd that is working to derail land protection 22 00:00:54,354 --> 00:00:56,590 in the West. And they're doing this 23 00:00:56,969 --> 00:01:00,490 using fear mongering and conspiracy theories, not good 24 00:01:00,490 --> 00:01:02,510 faith concerns for public lands. 25 00:01:03,530 --> 00:01:04,270 The report, 26 00:01:04,890 --> 00:01:05,950 we're looking at 27 00:01:06,409 --> 00:01:08,969 dozens, hundreds of pages, maybe, of raw research 28 00:01:08,969 --> 00:01:10,924 that got distilled down into this. We looked 29 00:01:10,924 --> 00:01:14,064 through social media posts, press interviews, 30 00:01:14,525 --> 00:01:17,745 blog posts, and transcripts from an absolutely 31 00:01:18,204 --> 00:01:20,625 bonkers anti 30 by 30 conference 32 00:01:21,165 --> 00:01:23,005 to show that these folks really have a 33 00:01:23,005 --> 00:01:23,505 very 34 00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:26,409 tenuous grasp on reality, 35 00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:28,650 and that is affecting 36 00:01:29,349 --> 00:01:30,969 the debate over national monuments. 37 00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:34,069 So you may be wondering who is in 38 00:01:34,069 --> 00:01:37,290 this group. Well, it's folks like Ben Bur, 39 00:01:37,495 --> 00:01:40,375 a very politically well connected guy who heads 40 00:01:40,375 --> 00:01:41,994 up the Blue Ribbon Coalition, 41 00:01:42,454 --> 00:01:45,435 is also Senator Mike Lee's nephew by marriage. 42 00:01:45,814 --> 00:01:48,295 Folks like Marb Grit Byfield of American Stewards 43 00:01:48,295 --> 00:01:49,974 of Liberty, who we've talked about on this 44 00:01:49,974 --> 00:01:52,040 podcast before. Some new faces, 45 00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:54,979 Sean Pond and Amy Tooker of Halt the 46 00:01:54,979 --> 00:01:56,599 Dolores Monument in Colorado. 47 00:01:57,060 --> 00:01:59,299 And, of course, our old friend William Perry 48 00:01:59,299 --> 00:02:02,819 Pendley, who illegally served as President Trump's head 49 00:02:02,819 --> 00:02:04,119 of the Interior Department 50 00:02:04,465 --> 00:02:07,284 and who more recently wrote the Heritage Foundation's 51 00:02:07,424 --> 00:02:08,564 Project 2025 52 00:02:09,025 --> 00:02:10,965 chapter on the Interior Department. 53 00:02:11,344 --> 00:02:13,104 Those are just a few of the names 54 00:02:13,104 --> 00:02:15,344 in this report. We will drop a link 55 00:02:15,344 --> 00:02:17,824 to that in the show notes. Please do 56 00:02:17,824 --> 00:02:19,925 go read it, send it to your friends, 57 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,039 print out copies, and leave it for, 58 00:02:23,159 --> 00:02:26,520 any county commissioners or state legislators or members 59 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,219 of congress who might be interested 60 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,939 in this debate over national monuments. 61 00:02:34,534 --> 00:02:37,254 Our guest today is Wyatt Mieskow. He covers 62 00:02:37,254 --> 00:02:40,534 drought, biodiversity, and the renewable energy transition throughout 63 00:02:40,534 --> 00:02:43,735 the western US for Inside Climate News. Today, 64 00:02:43,735 --> 00:02:45,495 we're talking to him about a recent story 65 00:02:45,495 --> 00:02:47,754 he wrote about a wildlife reserve in Southwest 66 00:02:47,814 --> 00:02:48,314 Nevada. 67 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,959 Wyatt, thanks so much for being here. Thanks 68 00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:51,860 for having me. 69 00:02:53,039 --> 00:02:55,519 So your story takes place in the Ash 70 00:02:55,519 --> 00:02:58,080 Meadows Wildlife Refuge, which you say is sometimes 71 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,019 called the Galapagos of the Mojave. 72 00:03:00,479 --> 00:03:02,400 Where exactly is it, and what makes it 73 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:03,219 so special? 74 00:03:03,884 --> 00:03:05,965 So Ash Meadows is about an hour and 75 00:03:05,965 --> 00:03:08,044 a half east of Las Vegas near the 76 00:03:08,044 --> 00:03:11,185 California border. It's located in the Armagosa Basin, 77 00:03:11,324 --> 00:03:13,805 and it's right next to Death Valley National 78 00:03:13,805 --> 00:03:16,444 Park. Basically, the Funeral Mountain Ranges kind of 79 00:03:16,444 --> 00:03:18,769 separate the 2. And given that it's, you 80 00:03:18,769 --> 00:03:20,150 know, right next to Death Valley, 81 00:03:20,449 --> 00:03:22,689 you can imagine it's a very hot and 82 00:03:22,689 --> 00:03:23,590 dry place. 83 00:03:24,449 --> 00:03:26,689 But 1000 of years ago, it had a 84 00:03:26,689 --> 00:03:29,030 lot of water there. And that water 85 00:03:29,489 --> 00:03:31,489 back then has kind of left behind this 86 00:03:31,489 --> 00:03:31,989 really 87 00:03:32,614 --> 00:03:35,194 intricate and delicate groundwater system. 88 00:03:35,655 --> 00:03:38,534 And over fifties, Seapin Springs kind of found 89 00:03:38,534 --> 00:03:40,474 in the Ash Meadows area. 90 00:03:41,014 --> 00:03:43,594 And that's led Ash Meadows to have 91 00:03:43,974 --> 00:03:45,275 or be the home of the greatest 92 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:48,560 let me restart that sentence. That's led Ash 93 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,560 Meadows to become the home of the greatest 94 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,060 concentration of endemic life in the United States. 95 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,919 So you have at least 26 endemic species 96 00:03:55,919 --> 00:03:58,159 found in Ash Meadows, 12 of which are 97 00:03:58,159 --> 00:03:59,939 listed as threatened or endangered. 98 00:04:01,155 --> 00:04:02,515 And so that's kind of where it's gotten 99 00:04:02,515 --> 00:04:04,935 this title as the Galapagos because it's just 100 00:04:04,995 --> 00:04:06,215 this haven of biodiversity 101 00:04:06,754 --> 00:04:08,295 in one of the harshest places 102 00:04:08,675 --> 00:04:10,754 you can imagine. Right? I mean, it's right 103 00:04:10,754 --> 00:04:12,915 next to Death Valley. I was there in 104 00:04:12,915 --> 00:04:14,435 end of June, and it was it was 105 00:04:14,435 --> 00:04:14,935 hot. 106 00:04:16,569 --> 00:04:18,650 And it's an incredibly unique place, and I 107 00:04:18,650 --> 00:04:20,090 say that as someone I grew up in 108 00:04:20,090 --> 00:04:22,270 the Mojave Desert on the California side. 109 00:04:22,810 --> 00:04:24,350 And, you know, driving into, 110 00:04:25,050 --> 00:04:27,050 Ash Meadows in the Amargosa Basin, it looks 111 00:04:27,050 --> 00:04:28,330 a lot like where I grew up. It's, 112 00:04:28,330 --> 00:04:28,990 you know, 113 00:04:29,584 --> 00:04:32,785 dirt and creosote bushes everywhere. But then you, 114 00:04:32,785 --> 00:04:34,064 you know, spend a little time in ash 115 00:04:34,064 --> 00:04:36,544 meadows and you stumble across, you know, these 116 00:04:36,544 --> 00:04:37,285 kind of 117 00:04:37,985 --> 00:04:38,485 oases 118 00:04:38,944 --> 00:04:40,865 in the sea of creosote. And dirt is, 119 00:04:40,865 --> 00:04:42,164 you know, these these cottonwoods, 120 00:04:42,544 --> 00:04:43,444 lush cottonwoods, 121 00:04:44,180 --> 00:04:46,419 and these bodies of water that are, you 122 00:04:46,419 --> 00:04:48,979 know, like crystal blue that are fed from 123 00:04:48,979 --> 00:04:52,019 these this ancient groundwater system that provides a 124 00:04:52,019 --> 00:04:53,779 home for, you know, endangered fish that are 125 00:04:53,779 --> 00:04:55,300 found nowhere else in the world. And you 126 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:56,740 see these little fish just swimming around in 127 00:04:56,740 --> 00:04:57,800 the middle of the summer 128 00:04:58,345 --> 00:05:01,305 when it's a 110 outside, and there should 129 00:05:01,305 --> 00:05:02,985 be, like, no water in places like this. 130 00:05:02,985 --> 00:05:04,904 Really, in most of the Mojave, it's quite 131 00:05:04,904 --> 00:05:07,064 dry. And it's it's just a fascinating little 132 00:05:07,064 --> 00:05:08,745 place, and it's earned kind of a a 133 00:05:08,745 --> 00:05:11,485 cool reputation as the Galapagos of Mojave. 134 00:05:12,024 --> 00:05:13,590 And when you say endemic, 135 00:05:14,210 --> 00:05:15,889 that means they're they're found there and nowhere 136 00:05:15,889 --> 00:05:16,710 else. Right? 137 00:05:17,330 --> 00:05:20,449 Correct. They're endemic. They're you won't find them 138 00:05:20,449 --> 00:05:22,610 anywhere else in the Mohave or in another 139 00:05:22,610 --> 00:05:23,110 desert, 140 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:25,615 and they're just in Asmetos. 141 00:05:26,395 --> 00:05:26,895 Wow. 142 00:05:28,154 --> 00:05:31,514 So one of these endemic species is the 143 00:05:31,514 --> 00:05:34,955 Devil's Hole pupfish, which sounds both kind of 144 00:05:34,955 --> 00:05:37,455 badass and adorable at the same time. 145 00:05:38,430 --> 00:05:41,470 What makes this fish, the the pupfish, so 146 00:05:41,470 --> 00:05:41,970 unique? 147 00:05:43,230 --> 00:05:45,949 Yeah. So the Devil's Hole pupfish is, you 148 00:05:45,949 --> 00:05:47,949 know, a pupfish that's found in Ash Meadows. 149 00:05:47,949 --> 00:05:50,269 It's actually technically part of Death Valley National 150 00:05:50,269 --> 00:05:51,709 Park, but it's in Ash Meadows. It's kind 151 00:05:51,709 --> 00:05:53,634 of a weird thing because the fish got 152 00:05:53,634 --> 00:05:54,935 its protections before 153 00:05:55,235 --> 00:05:57,654 death or Ash Meadows was a wildlife refuge. 154 00:05:57,875 --> 00:05:59,634 But it's kind of famed for being the 155 00:05:59,634 --> 00:06:01,475 most endangered fish that we know of in 156 00:06:01,475 --> 00:06:02,055 the world. 157 00:06:02,834 --> 00:06:04,675 This spring, they counted the most of them 158 00:06:04,675 --> 00:06:06,535 in quite some time, just under 200 159 00:06:07,230 --> 00:06:09,250 in the wild. And they live in this 160 00:06:09,389 --> 00:06:11,649 water filled cavern and kind of this hillside 161 00:06:11,949 --> 00:06:13,009 in Ash Meadows. 162 00:06:13,709 --> 00:06:15,970 It just it looks like a regular kind 163 00:06:16,029 --> 00:06:18,050 of rocky hillside you find in the Mojave, 164 00:06:18,110 --> 00:06:20,430 but there's this cavern and it's filled with 165 00:06:20,430 --> 00:06:21,949 water. They don't even know how deep it 166 00:06:21,949 --> 00:06:22,425 goes. 167 00:06:22,824 --> 00:06:24,745 And it's it's hot water. It's over 90 168 00:06:24,745 --> 00:06:27,064 degrees. And they live kind of towards the 169 00:06:27,064 --> 00:06:29,625 surface on the shelf, and they, you know, 170 00:06:29,625 --> 00:06:31,305 eat kind of the stuff that grows there 171 00:06:31,305 --> 00:06:34,104 on that shelf. And for 1000 of years, 172 00:06:34,104 --> 00:06:36,024 they've just lived there and somehow been able 173 00:06:36,024 --> 00:06:36,764 to survive. 174 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:39,960 And it's, again, I mean, it's it's the 175 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,279 rarest most endangered fish in the world, and 176 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:42,779 it's 177 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,339 pretty famous for that. 178 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,660 And it's their discovery 179 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,980 led to the creation of Ash Meadows 180 00:06:50,439 --> 00:06:52,120 and ultimately kind of a lot of the 181 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:53,740 protections that came for the area 182 00:06:54,144 --> 00:06:56,064 later on and also, of course, you know, 183 00:06:56,064 --> 00:06:58,305 other species in the area being listed as 184 00:06:58,305 --> 00:07:00,224 endangered or threatened. And it's kind of the 185 00:07:00,224 --> 00:07:00,724 formation 186 00:07:01,504 --> 00:07:02,004 of, 187 00:07:02,544 --> 00:07:04,784 you know, Ash Meadows as a refuge, but 188 00:07:04,784 --> 00:07:05,524 then also 189 00:07:06,540 --> 00:07:08,240 for this story that I did, 190 00:07:08,620 --> 00:07:10,379 the Devil's Hole Pup Fish has kind of 191 00:07:10,379 --> 00:07:10,879 become 192 00:07:11,579 --> 00:07:12,720 kind of the rallying 193 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:16,079 symbol behind this fight against this lithium mine 194 00:07:16,300 --> 00:07:17,919 because the concern is 195 00:07:18,555 --> 00:07:21,215 this lithium mine may consume water or impact 196 00:07:21,275 --> 00:07:23,835 this groundwater aquifer that feeds, you know, these 197 00:07:23,835 --> 00:07:25,275 seeps and streams for the other fish, but 198 00:07:25,275 --> 00:07:27,694 also this cavern that make makes Devil's Hole. 199 00:07:27,835 --> 00:07:28,335 And 200 00:07:28,795 --> 00:07:30,715 if those water levels go down, you have 201 00:07:30,715 --> 00:07:32,095 less of that critical habitat. 202 00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:34,769 Devil's hole pupfish, you know, might see declines 203 00:07:34,769 --> 00:07:35,669 in its population. 204 00:07:36,209 --> 00:07:36,709 And, 205 00:07:37,490 --> 00:07:40,129 the community and environmentalists out there are concerned 206 00:07:40,129 --> 00:07:41,110 about that, obviously. 207 00:07:42,370 --> 00:07:44,229 So the the devil's hole pupfish, 208 00:07:45,169 --> 00:07:46,069 is sort of 209 00:07:46,524 --> 00:07:49,004 go undergoing a rebranding right now, and that's 210 00:07:49,004 --> 00:07:51,004 kind of, like, what, the the basis of 211 00:07:51,004 --> 00:07:53,245 your story. Can you tell us how this 212 00:07:53,245 --> 00:07:54,785 fish has been viewed locally 213 00:07:55,245 --> 00:07:57,425 in the past and and how that's changing 214 00:07:57,485 --> 00:07:58,225 and why? 215 00:07:59,430 --> 00:08:01,269 Yeah. So as I read in the story 216 00:08:01,269 --> 00:08:03,290 and what I heard from, you know, environmentalists 217 00:08:03,750 --> 00:08:05,610 and community members while visiting, 218 00:08:06,069 --> 00:08:08,470 Armagosa, which is the town near Ash Meadows 219 00:08:08,470 --> 00:08:10,089 that's here maybe 10 minutes away, 220 00:08:10,709 --> 00:08:12,550 was that, you know, when the devil's hole 221 00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:13,850 pupfish got its 222 00:08:14,185 --> 00:08:16,285 protections under the Endangered Species Act, 223 00:08:17,144 --> 00:08:19,865 it was a pretty nasty fight between kind 224 00:08:19,865 --> 00:08:20,365 of, 225 00:08:20,904 --> 00:08:21,404 environmentalists 226 00:08:21,785 --> 00:08:24,185 and the Fish and Wildlife Service and the 227 00:08:24,185 --> 00:08:27,544 community because there was, you know, farmers were 228 00:08:27,544 --> 00:08:29,564 moving in. There's a lot of development happening, 229 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:31,980 and they were pumping groundwater. 230 00:08:32,279 --> 00:08:34,700 And that was leading to reduced water levels, 231 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,080 in Devil's Hole. And that led to, you 232 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,240 know, obviously, concerns that this fish could become 233 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,240 extinct. And it led to a supreme court 234 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,595 case, so very important one that ruled that 235 00:08:43,595 --> 00:08:45,754 to protect the species under the Endangered Species 236 00:08:45,754 --> 00:08:46,254 Act, 237 00:08:46,634 --> 00:08:49,215 the groundwater pumping and development could be limited. 238 00:08:49,595 --> 00:08:51,915 And not long after that decision, you know, 239 00:08:51,915 --> 00:08:53,675 developers, they had been planning a city of 240 00:08:53,675 --> 00:08:55,615 almost 50,000 people in the area. 241 00:08:55,995 --> 00:08:57,754 That fell because they couldn't find a way 242 00:08:57,754 --> 00:09:00,120 to make it work while also protecting the 243 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,240 fish. And so for many locals in the 244 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,799 area, the devil's hole pupfish was viewed as 245 00:09:05,799 --> 00:09:06,299 this 246 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,919 little fish that no one really sees or 247 00:09:08,919 --> 00:09:11,595 knows about that killed any chances of there 248 00:09:11,595 --> 00:09:13,514 being any development in the area. And so 249 00:09:13,514 --> 00:09:15,115 it was kind of viewed as a hated 250 00:09:15,115 --> 00:09:17,954 pest at the the the visitor center at, 251 00:09:17,954 --> 00:09:19,134 you know, Ash Meadows. 252 00:09:19,514 --> 00:09:20,875 They have stickers that show, you know, back 253 00:09:20,875 --> 00:09:22,634 in the seventies when this all was going 254 00:09:22,714 --> 00:09:23,534 playing out, 255 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:25,540 you know, people having stickers saying, no. Kill 256 00:09:25,540 --> 00:09:28,179 the pupfish and stuff like that. And, some 257 00:09:28,179 --> 00:09:31,000 of that sentiment has remained for years, obviously. 258 00:09:31,540 --> 00:09:33,379 You know, Ash Meadows is located in Nye 259 00:09:33,379 --> 00:09:35,379 County, which is a pretty if you know 260 00:09:35,379 --> 00:09:36,279 Nevada politics 261 00:09:36,735 --> 00:09:38,174 and Nevada issues, you know it's a pretty 262 00:09:38,174 --> 00:09:40,195 conservative county in Nevada, 263 00:09:40,894 --> 00:09:43,375 where, you know, the environmentalists and the county 264 00:09:43,375 --> 00:09:44,995 doesn't get along too much. 265 00:09:45,695 --> 00:09:48,254 But what's united them and what's kind of 266 00:09:48,254 --> 00:09:50,195 caused this rebranding is that 267 00:09:50,509 --> 00:09:51,409 there's a drought. 268 00:09:51,789 --> 00:09:54,509 Wells are running dry in the Amargosa Basin. 269 00:09:54,509 --> 00:09:55,889 This is an over over, 270 00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:58,669 over pumped aquifer at this point through the 271 00:09:58,830 --> 00:10:01,070 and there's, you know, wells are running dry 272 00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:02,850 at local, you know, people's houses. 273 00:10:03,774 --> 00:10:05,295 And with this mine coming in, you know, 274 00:10:05,295 --> 00:10:06,894 this might seem as like a really great 275 00:10:06,894 --> 00:10:07,875 economic opportunity, 276 00:10:08,575 --> 00:10:09,315 but residents, 277 00:10:10,415 --> 00:10:12,575 who usually would not be on the same 278 00:10:12,575 --> 00:10:14,654 side as the environmentalists who have been protecting 279 00:10:14,654 --> 00:10:15,955 this pupfish for decades, 280 00:10:16,815 --> 00:10:19,070 realize now that, hey, this pupfish 281 00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:21,930 is how we can stop this mine. Because 282 00:10:21,930 --> 00:10:24,430 of its endangered, you know, species act protections, 283 00:10:25,129 --> 00:10:26,649 you can kind of use that as a 284 00:10:26,649 --> 00:10:28,570 rallying cry and ability to kind of hopefully 285 00:10:28,570 --> 00:10:30,490 stop this mining development. And that's what they're 286 00:10:30,490 --> 00:10:32,090 pushing for, and that's what's united them. And 287 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:34,394 so they now realize that the Devil's Hole 288 00:10:34,394 --> 00:10:36,975 Pupfish and Ash Meadows as a refuge 289 00:10:37,355 --> 00:10:39,034 might be the way to kind of save 290 00:10:39,034 --> 00:10:40,634 them from what they fear will be a 291 00:10:40,634 --> 00:10:42,554 project that will take more water away from 292 00:10:42,554 --> 00:10:43,054 them. 293 00:10:43,674 --> 00:10:45,534 Alright. So walk us through this process, 294 00:10:46,075 --> 00:10:49,419 of lithium mining and what's being proposed for 295 00:10:49,419 --> 00:10:50,799 the area, and why 296 00:10:51,339 --> 00:10:54,220 is that put that mine potentially such a 297 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:55,120 threat to the water? 298 00:10:56,059 --> 00:10:58,539 Yeah. So Rover Critical Minerals is a a 299 00:10:58,539 --> 00:11:00,860 junior mining company, which means they they kind 300 00:11:00,860 --> 00:11:01,839 of just do exploratory. 301 00:11:02,375 --> 00:11:03,514 They they find places 302 00:11:03,975 --> 00:11:05,674 that might be suitable for a mine. 303 00:11:06,054 --> 00:11:06,454 And, 304 00:11:07,575 --> 00:11:09,495 this kind of site that they proposed in 305 00:11:09,495 --> 00:11:11,834 the Armagosa Basin, Armagosa Valley, 306 00:11:12,855 --> 00:11:14,970 it kind of came because, you know, there's 307 00:11:15,209 --> 00:11:17,689 access to infrastructure. There's a community there with 308 00:11:17,689 --> 00:11:18,829 workers and housing, 309 00:11:19,370 --> 00:11:21,709 and they found lithium in the area. And, 310 00:11:22,089 --> 00:11:24,169 what they've kind of shared so far, at 311 00:11:24,169 --> 00:11:26,329 the beginning, it sounded like open pit mines, 312 00:11:26,329 --> 00:11:28,009 and maybe that's still the plan. There was 313 00:11:28,009 --> 00:11:29,949 a town hall that I visited in June, 314 00:11:30,144 --> 00:11:31,745 where their idea was, you know, they wanted 315 00:11:31,745 --> 00:11:33,745 to just potentially mine the surface of the 316 00:11:33,745 --> 00:11:35,424 ground. You only dig maybe 20, 30 feet 317 00:11:35,424 --> 00:11:36,464 in the ground, really do a lot of 318 00:11:36,464 --> 00:11:37,605 surface level digging 319 00:11:37,985 --> 00:11:40,865 because, in the area because 10000 years ago, 320 00:11:40,865 --> 00:11:42,464 there were a lot of lakes and rivers 321 00:11:42,464 --> 00:11:44,065 in the area that are now dried up. 322 00:11:44,065 --> 00:11:44,940 There's a lot of playa, 323 00:11:45,340 --> 00:11:46,940 playas in the area, and those are filled 324 00:11:46,940 --> 00:11:47,679 with lithium. 325 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:50,620 And their goal is to extract that lithium 326 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:53,279 if it's economically feasible. But, again, they're in 327 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:55,039 the, I mean, pretty much beginning 328 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:57,580 stages of this, which kinda makes it interesting 329 00:11:57,580 --> 00:12:00,399 that this fight has already, gotten so heated 330 00:12:00,514 --> 00:12:01,955 is because, you know, all they've really done 331 00:12:01,955 --> 00:12:04,115 so far is file their claims. You know, 332 00:12:04,115 --> 00:12:05,634 they've stuck their sticks in the ground and 333 00:12:05,634 --> 00:12:07,894 said, we're interested in mining this potentially. 334 00:12:08,434 --> 00:12:10,195 And they got approval last summer from the 335 00:12:10,195 --> 00:12:11,495 Bureau of Land Management 336 00:12:11,875 --> 00:12:14,139 to begin doing the drilling. And what they're 337 00:12:14,139 --> 00:12:16,539 gonna do is it's exploratory drilling. They're testing 338 00:12:16,539 --> 00:12:18,779 the lithium quality, see if it's maybe feasible 339 00:12:18,779 --> 00:12:19,279 economically, 340 00:12:20,299 --> 00:12:21,980 to mine here. And if the lithium's of 341 00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:23,580 good quality, there's enough of it to do 342 00:12:23,580 --> 00:12:25,679 it, yada yada, all that kind of stuff. 343 00:12:26,059 --> 00:12:28,799 And but that got stopped because 344 00:12:29,274 --> 00:12:31,774 the Center For Biological Diversity and the Armagosa 345 00:12:31,834 --> 00:12:34,495 Conservancy sued, and the BLM realized 346 00:12:35,355 --> 00:12:36,875 or they realized that they hadn't done an 347 00:12:36,875 --> 00:12:39,294 environmental impact statement. And maybe they should because 348 00:12:39,355 --> 00:12:41,460 there's a wildlife refuge next door. 349 00:12:41,860 --> 00:12:44,100 I mean, literally, it's a the the mining 350 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:46,019 claims are a couple 100 feet away from, 351 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:50,179 Ash Meadows boundaries. And so there's obviously big 352 00:12:50,179 --> 00:12:50,679 concerns 353 00:12:51,059 --> 00:12:53,300 that if you drill into the ground, and 354 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:54,500 at the time, you know, we were talking 355 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:56,340 potentially down to the water table, down into 356 00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:58,565 the aquifer, You puncture that aquifer, 357 00:12:59,345 --> 00:13:00,725 you have a blowout essentially. 358 00:13:01,184 --> 00:13:04,065 And then water levels for these soups and 359 00:13:04,065 --> 00:13:07,044 streams that kind of make up this wildlife 360 00:13:07,184 --> 00:13:09,584 in Ash Meadows certainly doesn't have the same 361 00:13:09,584 --> 00:13:11,290 amount of water it did before. And so 362 00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:12,970 maybe you see some of these endangered species 363 00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:14,730 like the devil's hole pufffish or some of 364 00:13:14,730 --> 00:13:16,590 the other endangered fish found in the area 365 00:13:16,889 --> 00:13:19,129 not have the habitats they need to be 366 00:13:19,129 --> 00:13:20,509 able to continue surviving. 367 00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:24,170 And that's the big concern of this project. 368 00:13:24,170 --> 00:13:25,290 And it's, you know, I mean, it's it's 369 00:13:25,290 --> 00:13:27,174 it's years away from even 370 00:13:27,475 --> 00:13:29,075 being a mine if it even gets to 371 00:13:29,075 --> 00:13:29,815 that stage. 372 00:13:30,274 --> 00:13:32,695 But because this is such a delicate ecosystem, 373 00:13:33,475 --> 00:13:35,875 there there this is an ancient groundwater system. 374 00:13:35,875 --> 00:13:38,455 You're already seeing problems. There's already concerns 375 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,519 down the road in the coming decades with 376 00:13:40,519 --> 00:13:41,419 climate change 377 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,799 of, you know, can some of these species 378 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:45,559 even continue to survive or at least at 379 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,320 the same levels they have been? It's a 380 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,080 very uniquely adapted place. It doesn't take a 381 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,299 lot to mess that up. 382 00:13:51,335 --> 00:13:53,654 This drilling, even though it's maybe, you know, 383 00:13:53,654 --> 00:13:55,654 obviously not as impactful as a open pit 384 00:13:55,654 --> 00:13:56,475 mine. Right? 385 00:13:56,855 --> 00:13:58,134 It can still have some impacts on that 386 00:13:58,134 --> 00:14:01,355 groundwater aquifer, and that's the real concern here. 387 00:14:02,774 --> 00:14:03,274 So 388 00:14:03,790 --> 00:14:06,110 how are federal agencies responding to this? You 389 00:14:06,110 --> 00:14:09,170 mentioned the BLM. Fish and Wildlife, I'm assuming, 390 00:14:09,629 --> 00:14:10,690 manages the refuge. 391 00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:14,929 Why can't they just stop this project considering 392 00:14:14,990 --> 00:14:17,309 it poses such a dire threat, or can 393 00:14:17,309 --> 00:14:17,809 they? 394 00:14:19,175 --> 00:14:22,075 Well, that's a great and complicated question. 395 00:14:22,934 --> 00:14:24,315 You know, the so, technically, 396 00:14:25,815 --> 00:14:28,215 this the the the these mining claims that 397 00:14:28,215 --> 00:14:30,875 the company has filed, it's on open public 398 00:14:31,095 --> 00:14:33,195 land managed by the Bureau of Land Management. 399 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:36,210 It is adjacent right next to this wildlife 400 00:14:36,210 --> 00:14:37,970 refuge and also not very far from a 401 00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:38,870 national park. 402 00:14:39,330 --> 00:14:41,090 But the land itself that they have filed 403 00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:42,790 these claims on obviously is 404 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:44,549 doesn't have those protections. 405 00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:47,514 So they're able to do this. And under, 406 00:14:47,514 --> 00:14:49,534 you know, this country's current mining laws, 407 00:14:49,914 --> 00:14:52,075 it's fairly easy to file those claims and 408 00:14:52,075 --> 00:14:53,835 begin the mining process as long as you're 409 00:14:53,835 --> 00:14:54,894 willing to do it. 410 00:14:55,995 --> 00:14:58,075 And so, you know, the BLM, they didn't 411 00:14:58,075 --> 00:14:59,215 realize at the time, 412 00:14:59,674 --> 00:15:02,750 an environmentalist legend that BLM eventually admitted, 413 00:15:03,529 --> 00:15:05,129 that kind of the impacts this would have. 414 00:15:05,129 --> 00:15:06,889 Because on the surface, you know, it's outside 415 00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:09,070 the rep the boundaries of the the refuge. 416 00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:11,870 So you don't think about, hey. 417 00:15:12,409 --> 00:15:14,409 Maybe the land's it's not in the refuge, 418 00:15:14,409 --> 00:15:14,909 but 419 00:15:15,535 --> 00:15:16,195 the groundwater 420 00:15:16,575 --> 00:15:19,215 system that this refuge relies on, it's the 421 00:15:19,215 --> 00:15:19,955 same aquifer. 422 00:15:20,894 --> 00:15:23,054 And so that's kind of where it led 423 00:15:23,054 --> 00:15:23,715 to complications. 424 00:15:24,415 --> 00:15:25,794 A coalition is formed, 425 00:15:26,254 --> 00:15:29,379 kind of pushing the interior department to do 426 00:15:29,379 --> 00:15:31,399 a mineral withdrawal for 20 years, 427 00:15:32,019 --> 00:15:32,839 in essentially, 428 00:15:33,459 --> 00:15:35,959 the area surrounding Ash Meadows, 429 00:15:36,659 --> 00:15:38,279 to protect from future, 430 00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:41,139 mining claims in the area. That doesn't stop 431 00:15:41,139 --> 00:15:42,579 with this one, but it would stop future 432 00:15:42,579 --> 00:15:44,485 mines if they wanted to come in, for 433 00:15:44,565 --> 00:15:45,945 it's for 20 years. 434 00:15:46,644 --> 00:15:48,264 After that, it gets more complicated. 435 00:15:48,725 --> 00:15:50,585 And that doesn't obviously stop this one, 436 00:15:50,965 --> 00:15:52,565 but it would be a sign of protection. 437 00:15:52,565 --> 00:15:54,565 And then, also, you know, the BLM has 438 00:15:54,565 --> 00:15:56,165 expressed interest in, you know, working with this 439 00:15:56,165 --> 00:15:58,425 coalition that's formed to protect Ash Meadows 440 00:15:58,884 --> 00:15:59,384 in 441 00:15:59,970 --> 00:16:01,730 finding a solution. And so there we've begun 442 00:16:01,730 --> 00:16:02,389 the environmental, 443 00:16:02,929 --> 00:16:05,089 assessment for this project, you know, and that's 444 00:16:05,089 --> 00:16:06,709 not out yet. And 445 00:16:07,409 --> 00:16:09,589 we'll see what happens. But, obviously, if 446 00:16:10,129 --> 00:16:11,889 the prod the mud the the drilling was 447 00:16:11,889 --> 00:16:13,029 found to, you know, 448 00:16:13,365 --> 00:16:14,745 impact endangered species, 449 00:16:15,284 --> 00:16:17,524 you can imagine if you can't find a 450 00:16:17,524 --> 00:16:20,504 mitigation for that, then the project's likely done. 451 00:16:20,565 --> 00:16:22,504 At least that's the hope for this coalition. 452 00:16:23,764 --> 00:16:25,605 Give us a sense of the the politics 453 00:16:25,605 --> 00:16:27,065 on the ground. Are there 454 00:16:27,649 --> 00:16:30,529 any local groups aside from this mining company 455 00:16:30,529 --> 00:16:31,990 that are saying, yes, 456 00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:34,129 please, we wanna see a a lithium mine 457 00:16:34,129 --> 00:16:35,029 at Ash Meadows? 458 00:16:36,129 --> 00:16:37,889 And that's what kind of drew me to 459 00:16:37,889 --> 00:16:40,129 this story is that there is really no 460 00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:42,309 one on the ground besides this mining company 461 00:16:42,654 --> 00:16:43,714 that's in support. 462 00:16:44,014 --> 00:16:46,254 It's kind of a strange bedfellows situation. Like 463 00:16:46,254 --> 00:16:48,115 I mentioned earlier, this is Nye County, 464 00:16:48,815 --> 00:16:49,634 pretty conservative, 465 00:16:51,375 --> 00:16:53,774 county that's, you know, told the environmentalists that 466 00:16:53,774 --> 00:16:55,774 if this was a different fight in a 467 00:16:55,774 --> 00:16:57,855 different place, we'd probably be on the opposite 468 00:16:57,855 --> 00:17:00,389 side. But they recognize that Ash Meadows is 469 00:17:00,389 --> 00:17:02,889 a pretty unique place next to Death Valley. 470 00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:05,109 These communities nearby are, 471 00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:07,909 you know, tourism is a pretty big draw, 472 00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:09,029 or would they would like it to be 473 00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:10,470 a big draw? Because you do have these 474 00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:13,214 natural resources nearby, and you have people who 475 00:17:13,214 --> 00:17:14,515 wanna come see them. So, 476 00:17:15,615 --> 00:17:17,775 it's kind of a surprising turn of events 477 00:17:17,775 --> 00:17:18,755 of that. You have, 478 00:17:19,454 --> 00:17:21,695 environmentalists and tribes who are usually allies on 479 00:17:21,695 --> 00:17:24,174 these types of things against mines. They've teamed 480 00:17:24,174 --> 00:17:26,039 up, obviously. But then you also have the 481 00:17:26,039 --> 00:17:28,220 local community at the local town of Armagosa 482 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:29,500 completely opposed, 483 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,679 to this project. You have the county completely 484 00:17:32,679 --> 00:17:34,059 opposed to this project. 485 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:36,460 Nevada's Democratic 486 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,059 congressional delegation, 487 00:17:38,595 --> 00:17:40,934 which is most of their congressional delegation, 488 00:17:41,554 --> 00:17:43,474 has come out against this and, you know, 489 00:17:43,474 --> 00:17:46,595 urged the Department of Interior to withdraw this 490 00:17:46,595 --> 00:17:49,174 land from, you know, from from being extractable 491 00:17:49,234 --> 00:17:50,294 from mineral minerals. 492 00:17:50,674 --> 00:17:51,414 And so 493 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,519 there's really not much local support. When I 494 00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:55,880 went out to the town hall, there was 495 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,119 well over a 100 people there, and, 496 00:17:58,919 --> 00:18:00,059 many people spoke. 497 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,159 Only 2 residents said they were in support 498 00:18:03,159 --> 00:18:05,244 out of dozens that spoke. And one of 499 00:18:05,244 --> 00:18:07,325 them, you know, his reasoning was it's an 500 00:18:07,325 --> 00:18:09,964 older community, obviously, living in the desert, and 501 00:18:09,964 --> 00:18:11,164 most of them will be dead in 10 502 00:18:11,164 --> 00:18:12,924 years anyways. So who cares what happens to 503 00:18:12,924 --> 00:18:14,204 the water? And, you know, I think it 504 00:18:14,204 --> 00:18:16,204 was food, and he was kinda laughed off, 505 00:18:16,444 --> 00:18:17,984 after saying that. And so, 506 00:18:18,940 --> 00:18:20,380 a little bit of sport, obviously. There's, you 507 00:18:20,380 --> 00:18:23,100 know, obviously, potential economic development here and economic 508 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:25,680 opportunity, which could be exciting for this town. 509 00:18:26,059 --> 00:18:27,759 But they don't view it as worth it 510 00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:29,840 because if they don't have water, 511 00:18:30,154 --> 00:18:32,174 you don't have anything as they told me. 512 00:18:32,474 --> 00:18:34,174 Water is life as they say. 513 00:18:35,434 --> 00:18:37,034 So I was surprised in your story to 514 00:18:37,034 --> 00:18:39,994 read that even senator Catherine Cortez Masto, who 515 00:18:39,994 --> 00:18:42,335 is a big friend of the mining industry, 516 00:18:43,009 --> 00:18:43,509 is, 517 00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:46,529 supporting and asking for the mineral withdrawal for 518 00:18:46,529 --> 00:18:47,190 the area. 519 00:18:48,049 --> 00:18:50,950 Meanwhile, she's pushing legislation that would allow companies 520 00:18:51,329 --> 00:18:54,450 much more leeway in, dumping mine waste, which 521 00:18:54,450 --> 00:18:55,589 would, you know, make 522 00:18:55,914 --> 00:18:57,835 a lot of different types of mining a 523 00:18:57,835 --> 00:18:58,815 lot more, 524 00:18:59,434 --> 00:19:01,454 a lot easier to do in the west. 525 00:19:01,595 --> 00:19:02,335 I'm curious 526 00:19:02,634 --> 00:19:04,394 why you think she's on board with this 527 00:19:04,394 --> 00:19:05,535 mineral withdrawal, 528 00:19:06,795 --> 00:19:08,894 and whether you think that this situation 529 00:19:10,059 --> 00:19:13,519 is impacting her her view of mining, 530 00:19:14,140 --> 00:19:17,840 specifically lithium and water intensive mining in Nevada. 531 00:19:19,019 --> 00:19:20,940 Yeah. Well, I can't speak too much to 532 00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:21,519 the senator's 533 00:19:22,315 --> 00:19:23,695 positions because I'm not her. 534 00:19:24,075 --> 00:19:25,914 But I I think what, you know, you 535 00:19:25,914 --> 00:19:26,654 point out 536 00:19:27,195 --> 00:19:29,295 that she's been in support of many other 537 00:19:29,515 --> 00:19:31,115 mining projects in the state of Nevada and 538 00:19:31,115 --> 00:19:32,715 across the west, and that she's behind the 539 00:19:32,715 --> 00:19:34,734 mining clarity act, which would, you know, 540 00:19:35,929 --> 00:19:38,009 make it essentially easier to do some mining 541 00:19:38,009 --> 00:19:39,470 activities on public lands. 542 00:19:39,769 --> 00:19:42,089 I think what makes this different, and she 543 00:19:42,089 --> 00:19:44,569 said this in a congressional hearing earlier this 544 00:19:44,569 --> 00:19:47,450 summer when, talking to the BLM's director, Tracy 545 00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:50,329 Stone Manning, about Ash Meadows and and trying 546 00:19:50,329 --> 00:19:51,194 to protect it, 547 00:19:52,954 --> 00:19:54,634 You know, she said she said that every 548 00:19:54,634 --> 00:19:56,714 community leader that she had spoken to that 549 00:19:56,714 --> 00:19:59,115 lives in that area, they're unanimous in their 550 00:19:59,115 --> 00:20:01,755 opposition. And I think that's what separates this 551 00:20:01,755 --> 00:20:04,230 from maybe other projects. You know, in my, 552 00:20:05,089 --> 00:20:07,329 reporting, I have reported on many public land 553 00:20:07,329 --> 00:20:09,409 projects, whether it's a mine or solar or, 554 00:20:09,730 --> 00:20:12,130 pump storage or what have you. And you'll 555 00:20:12,130 --> 00:20:13,970 always find people who are opposed, but also 556 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:15,190 people who are in support. 557 00:20:15,565 --> 00:20:17,644 And but this is a case that's kind 558 00:20:17,644 --> 00:20:19,325 of been shocking to me is that there 559 00:20:19,325 --> 00:20:21,184 really is no local support, 560 00:20:22,285 --> 00:20:23,345 at least for now. 561 00:20:23,724 --> 00:20:24,224 And 562 00:20:24,525 --> 00:20:26,144 I think that's the kind of 563 00:20:27,085 --> 00:20:29,884 big dividing line between for senator Cortez Masto 564 00:20:29,884 --> 00:20:31,990 and maybe some other of, you know, Nevada's, 565 00:20:32,289 --> 00:20:33,670 leaders is that 566 00:20:34,450 --> 00:20:37,190 the the local community does not want this. 567 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:39,570 And and if they don't want this and 568 00:20:39,570 --> 00:20:41,170 you can't find a group that does want 569 00:20:41,170 --> 00:20:41,670 this, 570 00:20:42,210 --> 00:20:43,650 why would you come out in support of 571 00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:45,670 it? I think also maybe, you know, 572 00:20:46,755 --> 00:20:49,575 some would, you know, criticize senator Cortez Masto's 573 00:20:50,195 --> 00:20:51,494 environmental record, 574 00:20:51,954 --> 00:20:53,555 for because of, like you mentioned, some of 575 00:20:53,555 --> 00:20:55,414 the things she's done in regards to mining, 576 00:20:55,714 --> 00:20:57,795 and maybe in public land projects and and 577 00:20:57,875 --> 00:20:58,934 or public land 578 00:20:59,460 --> 00:21:01,799 sell offs and land deals in Clark County. 579 00:21:02,339 --> 00:21:04,259 She know that many in the environmental community 580 00:21:04,259 --> 00:21:06,900 in Nevada criticized her for that. And this 581 00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:08,500 would be, you know, supporting this and getting 582 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:10,500 this done. That seems like a fairly easy 583 00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:11,480 win potentially, 584 00:21:12,179 --> 00:21:14,035 of getting, hey. You know? Sure. I did 585 00:21:14,035 --> 00:21:15,795 this, but I did get you Ash Meadows 586 00:21:15,795 --> 00:21:16,295 protected. 587 00:21:16,835 --> 00:21:18,595 And, you know, it's all politics at the 588 00:21:18,595 --> 00:21:19,335 end of the day. 589 00:21:19,955 --> 00:21:21,815 Yeah. The the math works out. 590 00:21:23,075 --> 00:21:25,634 So I wanna follow-up on what you were 591 00:21:25,634 --> 00:21:28,369 saying earlier about the sort of endangered species 592 00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:28,930 nature, 593 00:21:29,549 --> 00:21:31,309 and and how that could really be what 594 00:21:31,309 --> 00:21:33,630 stops this. Can you say more about that? 595 00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:35,869 Like, what is the level of proof that 596 00:21:35,869 --> 00:21:36,369 the 597 00:21:36,829 --> 00:21:39,490 BLM or Fish and Wildlife has to 598 00:21:40,134 --> 00:21:41,755 reach in order to really, 599 00:21:42,134 --> 00:21:44,214 end this given that our mining laws are 600 00:21:44,214 --> 00:21:47,035 so permissive and so skewed towards, 601 00:21:47,894 --> 00:21:49,914 you know, allowing things to go forward, 602 00:21:50,454 --> 00:21:52,470 regardless of the impacts on the ground? 603 00:21:53,429 --> 00:21:55,509 Yeah. Great question. I think it's one of 604 00:21:55,509 --> 00:21:57,349 those things we kind of have to wait 605 00:21:57,349 --> 00:21:59,269 and see. I think because of a mining 606 00:21:59,269 --> 00:21:59,769 statute 607 00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:02,069 of mining, the laws that exist on the 608 00:22:02,069 --> 00:22:03,509 books for mining, it makes it kind of 609 00:22:03,509 --> 00:22:04,009 complicated 610 00:22:05,714 --> 00:22:07,714 because the mining takes a precedent over a 611 00:22:07,714 --> 00:22:09,474 lot of stuff. But, you know, there's been 612 00:22:09,474 --> 00:22:11,154 cases in Nevada. You know, earlier this year, 613 00:22:11,154 --> 00:22:13,575 the state Supreme Court in Nevada ruled, 614 00:22:14,434 --> 00:22:15,255 you know, that 615 00:22:15,794 --> 00:22:17,654 if the the state engineers, 616 00:22:18,115 --> 00:22:20,490 which oversees water rights in the state, 617 00:22:21,690 --> 00:22:23,470 if the science shows that 618 00:22:23,769 --> 00:22:25,710 groundwater pumping will impact 619 00:22:26,170 --> 00:22:28,029 other water right holders 620 00:22:28,490 --> 00:22:31,369 or endangered species and or maybe both, probably 621 00:22:31,369 --> 00:22:32,589 both in many cases, 622 00:22:33,335 --> 00:22:35,434 they cannot issue that that project, 623 00:22:36,134 --> 00:22:38,134 its water rights, and they can effectively kill 624 00:22:38,134 --> 00:22:38,634 it. 625 00:22:39,414 --> 00:22:41,575 That that was earlier this year. And, you 626 00:22:41,575 --> 00:22:43,275 know, when I was talking to 627 00:22:43,654 --> 00:22:45,015 folks on the ground at the time when 628 00:22:45,015 --> 00:22:47,115 that state Supreme Court decision happened, 629 00:22:47,575 --> 00:22:48,634 you know, one of the 630 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,299 situations they pointed to that they thought that 631 00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:54,319 decision could really impact is what's happening in 632 00:22:54,319 --> 00:22:56,319 Ash Meadows. If you can prove that this 633 00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:57,859 ground, what the science shows 634 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,539 that this exploratory drilling will impact the aquifer 635 00:23:01,759 --> 00:23:02,900 and that will reduce 636 00:23:03,514 --> 00:23:05,934 water levels at the Devil's Hole, for example, 637 00:23:05,994 --> 00:23:07,694 and impact the Devil's Hole pupfish, 638 00:23:08,954 --> 00:23:10,474 then the state engineer doesn't have to issue 639 00:23:10,474 --> 00:23:11,294 the water rights. 640 00:23:11,674 --> 00:23:13,514 For the fish and wildlife service itself, you 641 00:23:13,514 --> 00:23:16,154 know, I think usually the way things work 642 00:23:16,154 --> 00:23:17,294 is that there's clear 643 00:23:17,670 --> 00:23:19,549 impacts to an endangered species and there's not 644 00:23:19,549 --> 00:23:20,890 a way to mitigate them. 645 00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:23,190 That usually is a pretty effective way at 646 00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:24,090 killing projects. 647 00:23:24,869 --> 00:23:26,970 I'm not sure how it works with mining. 648 00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:30,090 If if mining regulations kind of 649 00:23:31,005 --> 00:23:32,924 maybe supersede some of those. I'm not as 650 00:23:32,924 --> 00:23:34,625 sure on that, but 651 00:23:35,005 --> 00:23:37,164 the hope here is that because of the 652 00:23:37,164 --> 00:23:39,664 refuge's status, also, you know, Death Valley 653 00:23:40,125 --> 00:23:42,205 being nearby as well and everything that's there, 654 00:23:42,285 --> 00:23:43,644 because this is the same aquifer. It also 655 00:23:43,644 --> 00:23:45,450 feeds into parts of Death Valley. 656 00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:48,970 If you can show that this drilling will 657 00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:50,750 impact those groundwater levels, then 658 00:23:52,250 --> 00:23:54,589 the the hope is the endangered species act 659 00:23:54,649 --> 00:23:55,630 can kill this. 660 00:23:56,409 --> 00:23:58,515 So it sounds like there's sort of 661 00:23:58,914 --> 00:24:02,515 2 different routes where by which this could 662 00:24:02,515 --> 00:24:03,015 die. 663 00:24:03,795 --> 00:24:05,654 Either the water rights or, 664 00:24:06,674 --> 00:24:08,115 the state engineer or, you know, the fish 665 00:24:08,115 --> 00:24:10,355 and wildlife service in the BLM saying, this 666 00:24:10,355 --> 00:24:12,195 project can't happen because the the impacts are 667 00:24:12,195 --> 00:24:13,690 too high and they can't be mitigated. Now 668 00:24:13,690 --> 00:24:14,750 if they can be mitigated, 669 00:24:15,049 --> 00:24:16,970 and that's where these things can get sometimes 670 00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:18,809 really tricky, you see this in, like, Ryloot 671 00:24:18,809 --> 00:24:21,130 Ridge, which is another lithium project that's much 672 00:24:21,130 --> 00:24:21,950 further along, 673 00:24:22,410 --> 00:24:24,570 in Nevada where, you know, the the the 674 00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:27,210 environmental impact statement's very clear that it will 675 00:24:27,210 --> 00:24:29,309 destroy critical habitat for an endangered 676 00:24:29,744 --> 00:24:30,244 wildflower. 677 00:24:31,984 --> 00:24:34,305 That decision is supposed to come in the 678 00:24:34,305 --> 00:24:36,164 next fairly soon, I believe. 679 00:24:37,904 --> 00:24:39,184 We'll just have to wait and see what 680 00:24:39,184 --> 00:24:41,424 the BLM does, because the company feels confident 681 00:24:41,424 --> 00:24:43,845 that their mitigation levels or mitigation plans 682 00:24:44,349 --> 00:24:47,329 can account for destroying critical habitat. 683 00:24:47,950 --> 00:24:49,470 And, I mean, that'd be I think that'd 684 00:24:49,470 --> 00:24:51,710 be a real kind of litmus test over 685 00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:53,329 in, you know, Nevada or 686 00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:55,889 lithium projects in Nevada and 687 00:24:56,215 --> 00:24:58,215 whether they can kind of mitigate those things 688 00:24:58,215 --> 00:24:59,914 and then if the BLM will, you know, 689 00:25:00,855 --> 00:25:02,154 buy that, you know, plant. 690 00:25:03,095 --> 00:25:04,795 I wanna look at the big picture 691 00:25:05,255 --> 00:25:07,355 and, do something that I know reporters 692 00:25:07,735 --> 00:25:09,759 hate to do, which is get out your 693 00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:12,740 crystal ball and speculate wildly for us. 694 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,039 The fact that this is playing out in 695 00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:17,539 Nevada, 696 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,480 which traditionally has been the state where the 697 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,819 elected officials have been the 698 00:25:23,865 --> 00:25:26,525 most determined to not overhaul 699 00:25:27,705 --> 00:25:28,205 the 700 00:25:28,664 --> 00:25:30,125 the mining act of 1872. 701 00:25:32,585 --> 00:25:34,184 Is the fact that this is happening here, 702 00:25:34,184 --> 00:25:37,009 the fact that this company can come in 703 00:25:37,009 --> 00:25:38,150 and make this proposal 704 00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:39,509 and basically 705 00:25:40,130 --> 00:25:42,049 have the run of the place, thanks to 706 00:25:42,049 --> 00:25:42,549 18/72, 707 00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:46,470 do you think that changes the national 708 00:25:48,684 --> 00:25:52,045 calculus on fixing the mining law. Is there 709 00:25:52,045 --> 00:25:54,605 any talk here of okay. Maybe this is 710 00:25:54,605 --> 00:25:56,305 a step too far and 711 00:25:56,684 --> 00:25:57,585 with the 712 00:25:58,205 --> 00:26:00,205 the push with the need for lithium being 713 00:26:00,205 --> 00:26:02,420 so high, we need to address this here 714 00:26:02,420 --> 00:26:04,180 or we're gonna be having this fight over 715 00:26:04,180 --> 00:26:06,519 and over again for the next 50 years. 716 00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:10,019 Yeah. That's a great question. And, obviously, you 717 00:26:10,019 --> 00:26:11,160 know, there's been 718 00:26:12,420 --> 00:26:15,105 signs from the Biden administration that, hey, Some 719 00:26:15,105 --> 00:26:17,025 aspects of our mining laws should maybe be 720 00:26:17,025 --> 00:26:19,424 updated. Though, the question, of course, is can 721 00:26:19,424 --> 00:26:20,944 you get Congress behind it? And I think 722 00:26:20,944 --> 00:26:22,884 the answer is probably not. 723 00:26:23,184 --> 00:26:25,184 We're closer to passing things that make it 724 00:26:25,184 --> 00:26:26,865 easier to mine, not passing things that make 725 00:26:26,865 --> 00:26:28,005 it harder to mine. 726 00:26:28,490 --> 00:26:30,250 So what I do think it shows kind 727 00:26:30,250 --> 00:26:30,990 of nationally, 728 00:26:31,369 --> 00:26:32,730 and I think this is a growing trend 729 00:26:32,730 --> 00:26:34,509 you've seen for years now, is 730 00:26:35,130 --> 00:26:37,390 we recognize that some of our environmental 731 00:26:37,690 --> 00:26:41,130 laws are not ready for, well, environmental issues, 732 00:26:41,130 --> 00:26:42,750 but also climate change issues. 733 00:26:43,335 --> 00:26:44,554 And so you see 734 00:26:46,134 --> 00:26:46,634 workarounds 735 00:26:47,815 --> 00:26:49,515 by project opponents 736 00:26:50,054 --> 00:26:50,554 to 737 00:26:51,095 --> 00:26:52,554 get a project stopped 738 00:26:53,095 --> 00:26:55,194 in ways that are kind of creative. 739 00:26:55,575 --> 00:26:57,355 And I think this is a great case 740 00:26:57,414 --> 00:26:57,914 of 741 00:26:58,580 --> 00:27:01,160 recognize it looks as though residents are opposed, 742 00:27:01,859 --> 00:27:03,960 wells are going dry, but there's no 743 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:06,119 real laws on the book saying, 744 00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:09,380 oh, well, wells are already going dry. We're 745 00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:11,460 concerned this lithium mine will cause more wells 746 00:27:11,460 --> 00:27:12,359 to go dry. 747 00:27:13,105 --> 00:27:14,944 That's all it takes to stop this mine. 748 00:27:14,944 --> 00:27:16,164 Right? That's not enough. 749 00:27:16,784 --> 00:27:19,024 The good of human human community is not 750 00:27:19,024 --> 00:27:21,105 quite enough to stop it. So what do 751 00:27:21,105 --> 00:27:23,105 you do? You look at the endangered species 752 00:27:23,105 --> 00:27:24,704 act, and you find, you know, oh, hey. 753 00:27:24,704 --> 00:27:26,544 We have a refuge right next door that 754 00:27:26,544 --> 00:27:28,869 has a bunch of endangered species and is 755 00:27:28,869 --> 00:27:30,869 also just a wildlife refuge that's, you know, 756 00:27:30,869 --> 00:27:32,490 supposed to be protected from, 757 00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:35,349 environmental impacts for these, you know, species and 758 00:27:35,349 --> 00:27:36,169 for this landscape. 759 00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:38,950 And so you go down that route, and 760 00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:40,710 I think it's just another example of that. 761 00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:41,829 And I think it's kind of one of 762 00:27:41,829 --> 00:27:43,929 those unfortunate cases where 763 00:27:45,325 --> 00:27:47,345 if you don't have something like that, 764 00:27:48,365 --> 00:27:50,204 then there's not much you can do to 765 00:27:50,204 --> 00:27:51,664 stop it. And I haven't heard 766 00:27:52,044 --> 00:27:52,944 much conversation 767 00:27:53,724 --> 00:27:54,224 about 768 00:27:55,085 --> 00:27:57,265 from, you know, reporting on this story about 769 00:27:58,169 --> 00:28:00,490 overhauling mining laws in general in this country 770 00:28:00,490 --> 00:28:02,569 or updating the 18/72 Mining Law Offering, you 771 00:28:02,569 --> 00:28:04,109 know, getting a new one, maybe a 2025 772 00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:06,970 Mining Act. Right? But what I have heard 773 00:28:06,970 --> 00:28:08,889 is it shows that we need to be 774 00:28:08,889 --> 00:28:11,129 more strategic in our rush to, you know, 775 00:28:11,129 --> 00:28:12,889 address climate change. You know, the opponents of 776 00:28:12,889 --> 00:28:14,945 the project are you, for this and many 777 00:28:14,945 --> 00:28:16,085 other, you know, environmentally 778 00:28:16,625 --> 00:28:19,285 potentially destructive projects is that we're 779 00:28:19,585 --> 00:28:21,664 building projects in places where maybe they're not 780 00:28:21,664 --> 00:28:23,585 very well suited because we're in such a 781 00:28:23,585 --> 00:28:25,605 rush to try and find these critical minerals, 782 00:28:26,065 --> 00:28:28,065 that we're willing to, you know, overlook some 783 00:28:28,065 --> 00:28:30,059 of those things maybe at some times. 784 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,839 And what they're arguing is, hey. Maybe we 785 00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:34,359 should look at you know, in Nevada, we 786 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:35,660 should look at the land available, 787 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,660 and we should decide what is 788 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,119 what are the places that we can mine 789 00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,720 and what are the places that are completely 790 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:42,494 off the table? 791 00:28:42,974 --> 00:28:44,335 Similar to what you're seeing, you know, and 792 00:28:44,335 --> 00:28:45,855 I think maybe example of this that you're 793 00:28:45,855 --> 00:28:47,075 starting to see is, like, 794 00:28:47,855 --> 00:28:49,615 the Bureau of Land Management is updating its 795 00:28:49,615 --> 00:28:51,634 Western Solar Plan to identify 796 00:28:52,414 --> 00:28:53,315 ahead of time 797 00:28:53,934 --> 00:28:55,474 where is solar most suitable 798 00:28:55,779 --> 00:28:56,980 and what's off the table. Where are the 799 00:28:56,980 --> 00:28:59,220 places we're not gonna put utility scale solar 800 00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:01,619 farms on? And I think there's a push 801 00:29:01,619 --> 00:29:02,119 from 802 00:29:02,420 --> 00:29:04,579 those against this project who have, you know, 803 00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:06,740 had some success now in opposing it and 804 00:29:06,740 --> 00:29:09,674 getting this coalition on board of doing something 805 00:29:09,674 --> 00:29:11,994 similar in regards to mining. Obviously, I think 806 00:29:11,994 --> 00:29:13,835 that's, you know, a long ways away. There's 807 00:29:13,835 --> 00:29:15,835 no legislation that I'm aware of being crafted 808 00:29:15,835 --> 00:29:16,815 to address that, 809 00:29:17,194 --> 00:29:19,355 but that has been something in Nevada that's 810 00:29:19,355 --> 00:29:20,174 gotten some, 811 00:29:20,875 --> 00:29:21,375 discussion. 812 00:29:22,554 --> 00:29:25,259 Nothing majorly yet, but time can change. And 813 00:29:25,259 --> 00:29:27,900 maybe this project is what kind of pushes 814 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:30,140 that to have that conversation to make those 815 00:29:30,140 --> 00:29:30,640 plans. 816 00:29:32,059 --> 00:29:33,820 Well, I feel like you just sort of 817 00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:36,460 touched on my last question, which is, the 818 00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:37,759 real bird's eye view 819 00:29:38,085 --> 00:29:40,664 here, which is the climate change 820 00:29:41,044 --> 00:29:43,284 is, you know, causing some of these waters 821 00:29:43,444 --> 00:29:45,544 or exacerbating some of these water shortages. 822 00:29:46,404 --> 00:29:49,125 Lithium, of course, is the demand for lithium 823 00:29:49,125 --> 00:29:52,105 is going up because it can help us 824 00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:55,779 fight climate change, by being part of renewable 825 00:29:55,779 --> 00:29:56,279 energy. 826 00:29:57,539 --> 00:29:58,039 So 827 00:29:58,579 --> 00:30:00,420 how are people talking about that trade off? 828 00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:02,599 I know you mentioned planning, and that's 829 00:30:03,059 --> 00:30:06,265 always great. We we're big advocates for land 830 00:30:06,265 --> 00:30:08,924 use planning here. But what is that conversation 831 00:30:09,144 --> 00:30:11,144 like in Nevada right now? How are people 832 00:30:11,144 --> 00:30:11,644 viewing, 833 00:30:12,184 --> 00:30:14,105 you know, being sort of ground 0 for 834 00:30:14,105 --> 00:30:17,144 this terrible climate trade off that's happening because 835 00:30:17,144 --> 00:30:18,125 of climate change? 836 00:30:18,664 --> 00:30:20,345 Yeah. I mean, Nevada is kind of ground 837 00:30:20,345 --> 00:30:21,480 0 for that because, 838 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:24,839 I think it's actually especially unique in Nevada 839 00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:26,759 because it's not a, you know, you're not 840 00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:28,839 fracking in Nevada for oil. So there's not 841 00:30:28,839 --> 00:30:29,500 this traditional, 842 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:32,279 I mean, you have traditionally a lot of 843 00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:34,679 mining, but not necessarily other forms of energy 844 00:30:34,679 --> 00:30:35,179 development. 845 00:30:35,494 --> 00:30:36,855 And now you're starting to see this if 846 00:30:36,855 --> 00:30:40,055 you have solar coming in massively. Also, near 847 00:30:40,055 --> 00:30:41,734 Ash Meadows in the Armagost Basin, there's a 848 00:30:41,734 --> 00:30:43,414 ton of solar that's coming. It's also gonna 849 00:30:43,414 --> 00:30:45,015 be the side of the Greenlink transmission line 850 00:30:45,015 --> 00:30:47,355 if that gets through, which seems probably likely. 851 00:30:48,055 --> 00:30:49,355 And so they're really seeing 852 00:30:50,330 --> 00:30:52,410 a ton of the mining, the solar, the 853 00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:53,869 pump storage, the transmission 854 00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:56,170 coming to Nevada. And I think what you 855 00:30:56,170 --> 00:30:58,269 just talked about kind of, you know, 856 00:30:58,570 --> 00:31:00,730 we need these critical minerals. We need these 857 00:31:00,730 --> 00:31:02,970 solar panels because we need to address climate 858 00:31:02,970 --> 00:31:04,650 change. We need to get out fossil fuels. 859 00:31:04,650 --> 00:31:06,975 We we have the science telling us what's 860 00:31:06,975 --> 00:31:09,238 gonna happen if you don't do that quickly 861 00:31:09,238 --> 00:31:11,784 enough. And Nevada's seeing that. It's that has 862 00:31:11,784 --> 00:31:14,330 led to a lot of I mean, that's 863 00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:16,594 pretty much the root of every environmental fight 864 00:31:16,594 --> 00:31:19,180 in Nevada is that this is the state 865 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,400 where a lot of especially in rural Nevada 866 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,240 where there's a lot of you know, it's 867 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,400 80% public land, and so these towns don't 868 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,840 have a lot of say in what happens 869 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,400 next door. And they're kind of getting into 870 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,140 these fights 871 00:31:31,045 --> 00:31:32,965 because they've kind of become the state that's 872 00:31:32,965 --> 00:31:34,505 gonna sacrifice to, 873 00:31:35,125 --> 00:31:35,705 you know, 874 00:31:36,085 --> 00:31:38,244 address climate change. And that's behind all the 875 00:31:38,244 --> 00:31:40,484 fights in Nevada, from Ash Meadows to Rilovich 876 00:31:40,484 --> 00:31:41,545 to Thacker Pass, 877 00:31:42,244 --> 00:31:43,225 to, you know, 878 00:31:43,759 --> 00:31:45,600 solar and pump storage projects that don't get 879 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,259 as much 880 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,920 media attention sometimes. I mean, that's behind all 881 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,220 of it. And 882 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,420 I think some communities feel very much 883 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,539 a little bit left behind and maybe voiceless. 884 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,144 And I was talking to the town manager 885 00:32:00,144 --> 00:32:02,484 of Armagosa about this project, and, you know, 886 00:32:03,585 --> 00:32:05,605 her feeling was that, you know, she's worked 887 00:32:06,224 --> 00:32:08,164 with the federal government and the state 888 00:32:08,625 --> 00:32:11,025 to do solar in Armagosa. And, you know, 889 00:32:11,025 --> 00:32:12,865 she's not thrilled about that, and the community 890 00:32:12,865 --> 00:32:15,125 is not thrilled about being surrounded by solar. 891 00:32:15,390 --> 00:32:17,390 But they they recognize that there's a need 892 00:32:17,390 --> 00:32:19,630 for it and that since it is federal 893 00:32:19,630 --> 00:32:21,490 land, they don't have a ton of say. 894 00:32:21,630 --> 00:32:23,390 So they've worked them to find the right 895 00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:23,890 places 896 00:32:24,430 --> 00:32:25,490 and to, you know, 897 00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:28,109 get some support behind it and not completely 898 00:32:28,109 --> 00:32:29,089 opposed. Right? 899 00:32:29,815 --> 00:32:31,894 Her argument is, okay. We've done that. We 900 00:32:31,894 --> 00:32:33,815 have the transmission line gonna come through here 901 00:32:33,815 --> 00:32:35,414 one day. There's gonna be a lot of 902 00:32:35,414 --> 00:32:36,234 solar here. 903 00:32:36,855 --> 00:32:39,015 Just keep the mine away. Just don't don't 904 00:32:39,015 --> 00:32:41,974 mind near us, because that's one where the 905 00:32:41,974 --> 00:32:43,974 environmental impacts are too much. The trade off 906 00:32:43,974 --> 00:32:46,079 isn't worth it. They're too worried about the 907 00:32:46,079 --> 00:32:47,680 water. You know? I mean, something she told 908 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,440 me, and many residents, pretty much everyone I 909 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,599 spoke to out there is that this community 910 00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:53,619 could be dead in 10 years already. 911 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,819 But they know if a mine comes in 912 00:32:57,095 --> 00:32:59,255 and takes up their water and causes more 913 00:32:59,255 --> 00:33:01,174 wells to run dry, and then you also 914 00:33:01,174 --> 00:33:03,335 have, you know, obviously, quality of that water 915 00:33:03,335 --> 00:33:04,394 concerns as well, 916 00:33:05,015 --> 00:33:06,795 then the town's definitely dead. 917 00:33:07,174 --> 00:33:08,934 And they want to at least try and 918 00:33:08,934 --> 00:33:10,075 fight and save it. 919 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,640 So it's a really interesting story happening in 920 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,820 Nevada, and I think this Ash Meadows situation 921 00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:18,539 really kind of showcases it because 922 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,759 these communities are seeing the brunt of these 923 00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:21,259 problems, 924 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,720 and they're trying to make the most of 925 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,625 it. And it can be hard to fight 926 00:33:25,625 --> 00:33:26,744 some of these things when there's, you know, 927 00:33:26,744 --> 00:33:28,265 so much pressure and so much money behind 928 00:33:28,265 --> 00:33:28,765 it. 929 00:33:29,944 --> 00:33:32,025 We will leave it there. Wyatt Myskow is 930 00:33:32,025 --> 00:33:34,505 a reporter with Inside Climate News. Thank you 931 00:33:34,505 --> 00:33:36,345 so much for your time and your insight 932 00:33:36,345 --> 00:33:36,845 today. 933 00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:39,070 Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. 934 00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:45,529 In good news this week, we're excited to 935 00:33:45,529 --> 00:33:48,009 share that the Biden administration is moving forward 936 00:33:48,009 --> 00:33:50,430 with a proposal to protect part of California's 937 00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:51,630 Central Coast. 938 00:33:52,125 --> 00:33:55,244 The Chumash Heritage National Marine Sanctuary is the 939 00:33:55,244 --> 00:33:58,144 1st tribally proposed sanctuary in the US. 940 00:33:58,684 --> 00:34:01,424 NOAA released a final EIS, that's an environmental 941 00:34:01,484 --> 00:34:04,319 impact statement, for the proposal last week, which 942 00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:07,119 would include over 4,000 square miles of coastal 943 00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:08,420 waters along 116 944 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:09,859 miles of the coast 945 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,559 stretching roughly from San Luis Obispo to Santa 946 00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:13,059 Barbara. 947 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,519 It will be the 3rd largest sanctuary in 948 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:18,159 the National Marine Sanctuary System if and when 949 00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:18,900 it's designated. 950 00:34:19,445 --> 00:34:21,284 We made a video about that proposal for 951 00:34:21,284 --> 00:34:23,844 our 30 30 postcard series, and we'll drop 952 00:34:23,844 --> 00:34:25,545 a link to that in the show notes. 953 00:34:35,539 --> 00:34:37,780 That's all for today, folks. We, of course, 954 00:34:37,780 --> 00:34:39,780 always love to hear from you, so drop 955 00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:42,920 us an email with questions, comments, complaints, compliments, 956 00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:45,724 if you wanna know more about that anti 957 00:34:45,724 --> 00:34:48,525 monuments disinformation brigade, of course, happy to talk 958 00:34:48,525 --> 00:34:50,684 about that as well. And if if you 959 00:34:50,684 --> 00:34:53,425 like the news segments of this podcast, 960 00:34:54,045 --> 00:34:57,025 go subscribe to our daily newsletter, Look West. 961 00:34:57,244 --> 00:34:59,485 We will drop that link in the show 962 00:34:59,485 --> 00:34:59,820 notes. 963 00:35:00,380 --> 00:35:02,460 Thanks again to Wyatt for his great reporting 964 00:35:02,460 --> 00:35:04,780 on Ash Meadows, and thank you for listening 965 00:35:04,780 --> 00:35:05,599 to the landscape.