1
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,939
Welcome to the 200th episode of The Landscape,

2
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,559
your show about America's Parks and Public Lands.

3
00:00:14,559 --> 00:00:16,414
I'm Erin Weiss with the Center For Western

4
00:00:16,414 --> 00:00:17,714
Priorities in Denver.

5
00:00:18,175 --> 00:00:20,434
And I'm Kate Gretsinger in Salt Lake City.

6
00:00:20,654 --> 00:00:22,494
We're doing something a little different today to

7
00:00:22,494 --> 00:00:25,154
mark the 200th time we've recorded this podcast.

8
00:00:25,614 --> 00:00:27,134
We're gonna take you behind the scenes here

9
00:00:27,134 --> 00:00:29,375
at CWP and introduce you to our colleagues

10
00:00:29,375 --> 00:00:30,754
who make the magic happen.

11
00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:33,100
We'll share what brought us to conservation and

12
00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:35,020
what keeps us motivated to keep doing the

13
00:00:35,020 --> 00:00:37,020
work. But before we get to that, we've

14
00:00:37,020 --> 00:00:37,840
got some news.

15
00:00:38,539 --> 00:00:40,539
Well, you may already know about the big

16
00:00:40,539 --> 00:00:42,619
news this week. It's out of Utah. It

17
00:00:42,619 --> 00:00:44,940
is, not great, but we gotta talk about

18
00:00:44,940 --> 00:00:45,440
it.

19
00:00:45,844 --> 00:00:47,925
So the State of Utah is suing the

20
00:00:47,925 --> 00:00:50,425
federal government for control over

21
00:00:50,885 --> 00:00:53,365
half of the national public land in the

22
00:00:53,365 --> 00:00:54,585
State of Utah. That's

23
00:00:54,885 --> 00:00:57,605
18 and a half 1000000 acres of what

24
00:00:57,605 --> 00:00:59,704
the governor is calling unappropriated

25
00:01:00,405 --> 00:01:02,719
public land. But by that, they actually just

26
00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:05,060
mean almost all the land that is managed

27
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,379
by the Bureau of Land Management.

28
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,780
Now, this term, unappropriated,

29
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,359
ironically comes from Utah's Enabling Act which was

30
00:01:13,359 --> 00:01:15,599
passed in the 18 nineties when Utah joined

31
00:01:15,599 --> 00:01:16,259
the union

32
00:01:16,694 --> 00:01:19,334
and that act states that Utah agrees to

33
00:01:19,334 --> 00:01:19,834
quote

34
00:01:20,215 --> 00:01:20,715
forever

35
00:01:21,094 --> 00:01:24,155
disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated

36
00:01:24,694 --> 00:01:27,355
public lands lying within the boundaries of Utah.

37
00:01:27,814 --> 00:01:30,295
Now, it would look like Utah governor Spencer

38
00:01:30,295 --> 00:01:31,599
Cox doesn't understand

39
00:01:31,980 --> 00:01:34,000
the meaning of the word forever

40
00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:36,700
because the state is going to the Supreme

41
00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:38,959
Court hoping that it takes up this case

42
00:01:39,180 --> 00:01:42,400
and hands those exact quote unquote unappropriated

43
00:01:43,020 --> 00:01:43,920
public lands

44
00:01:44,299 --> 00:01:45,439
over to the state.

45
00:01:46,504 --> 00:01:49,224
Utah, of course, conveniently ignores the fact that

46
00:01:49,224 --> 00:01:52,024
every single acre of national public land in

47
00:01:52,024 --> 00:01:53,325
the state is already

48
00:01:53,944 --> 00:01:55,164
actively managed.

49
00:01:55,704 --> 00:01:59,049
Congress has appropriated a use on every single

50
00:01:59,049 --> 00:02:01,049
acre. Doesn't matter whether it's run by the

51
00:02:01,049 --> 00:02:03,450
park service, the forest service, bureau of land

52
00:02:03,450 --> 00:02:03,950
management.

53
00:02:04,569 --> 00:02:07,689
Congress told all of those agencies to create

54
00:02:07,689 --> 00:02:10,090
management plans for the land, and they have

55
00:02:10,090 --> 00:02:10,830
done that.

56
00:02:11,485 --> 00:02:14,305
No land in Utah is just sitting there

57
00:02:14,685 --> 00:02:16,444
waiting for someone to decide what to do

58
00:02:16,444 --> 00:02:19,585
with it. The entire notion of unappropriated

59
00:02:20,045 --> 00:02:20,545
lands

60
00:02:21,004 --> 00:02:23,405
makes no sense at all in 2024. It

61
00:02:23,405 --> 00:02:24,865
honestly hasn't made sense

62
00:02:25,349 --> 00:02:28,550
even since Utah became a state. So the

63
00:02:28,550 --> 00:02:29,050
legal

64
00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:30,409
ground here

65
00:02:31,270 --> 00:02:31,930
is nonsensical.

66
00:02:33,030 --> 00:02:35,770
Public land law professors, and we've heard from

67
00:02:35,830 --> 00:02:37,370
a bunch of them already,

68
00:02:38,144 --> 00:02:40,544
all agree that this case has no legal

69
00:02:40,544 --> 00:02:44,064
basis, but if it did somehow succeed, it

70
00:02:44,064 --> 00:02:47,025
would be devastating for public lands across the

71
00:02:47,025 --> 00:02:47,525
West.

72
00:02:48,144 --> 00:02:50,224
The issue there is that states simply don't

73
00:02:50,224 --> 00:02:52,245
have the manpower or the revenue

74
00:02:52,659 --> 00:02:55,379
to manage public lands like the federal government

75
00:02:55,379 --> 00:02:57,639
does. A a single massive wildfire,

76
00:02:58,659 --> 00:03:00,120
a a massive mine cleanup

77
00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:03,460
could bankrupt any of these western states. So

78
00:03:03,460 --> 00:03:06,500
in order to manage these lands, the states

79
00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:08,444
would have to increase drilling and mining,

80
00:03:08,925 --> 00:03:10,844
mining, would have to sell off public lands.

81
00:03:10,844 --> 00:03:11,585
We're talking

82
00:03:11,965 --> 00:03:13,185
trophy homes, privatization,

83
00:03:14,284 --> 00:03:16,944
all of that wonderful land running through Moab.

84
00:03:17,805 --> 00:03:20,064
This idea that Utah is pitching here

85
00:03:20,365 --> 00:03:22,284
is in fact a huge threat to public

86
00:03:22,284 --> 00:03:22,784
lands.

87
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,360
We will talk more about this in coming

88
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,219
episodes with some of these law professors,

89
00:03:27,759 --> 00:03:30,180
but I wanna stress right now the magnitude

90
00:03:30,719 --> 00:03:33,519
of what Utah is asking the Supreme Court

91
00:03:33,519 --> 00:03:35,759
to do here. So, first, the Supreme Court

92
00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:38,094
would have to find that that forever

93
00:03:38,474 --> 00:03:42,014
language in the Enabling Act didn't mean forever

94
00:03:42,634 --> 00:03:44,394
or they would have to find that the

95
00:03:44,394 --> 00:03:45,694
Enabling Act itself

96
00:03:45,995 --> 00:03:47,055
wasn't constitutional.

97
00:03:47,354 --> 00:03:50,074
So, maybe Utah's not actually a state. Well,

98
00:03:50,074 --> 00:03:51,435
there's a can of worms you don't wanna

99
00:03:51,435 --> 00:03:53,055
open up a 130 years later.

100
00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:54,000
2nd,

101
00:03:54,460 --> 00:03:56,219
the court would have to toss out a

102
00:03:56,219 --> 00:03:56,719
couple

103
00:03:57,099 --> 00:03:57,599
centuries

104
00:03:58,300 --> 00:04:00,639
of case law on national public lands.

105
00:04:01,020 --> 00:04:01,840
Most notably,

106
00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:04,240
the Cleppey decision from 1976.

107
00:04:05,020 --> 00:04:07,180
That's a decision that said, in no uncertain

108
00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:07,680
terms,

109
00:04:07,995 --> 00:04:10,875
the property clause of the constitution, article 4,

110
00:04:10,875 --> 00:04:11,775
section 3,

111
00:04:12,075 --> 00:04:14,415
means exactly what it says on the tin.

112
00:04:14,555 --> 00:04:17,435
Congress, and only Congress, has the power to

113
00:04:17,435 --> 00:04:20,574
dispose of and manage public lands. And CLEPI

114
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,720
is itself built on more than a 100

115
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,500
years of decisions before that,

116
00:04:25,879 --> 00:04:27,560
going all the way back to a case

117
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:28,459
in 18/40

118
00:04:29,319 --> 00:04:30,779
where the court wrote, quote,

119
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,800
the power over the public lands is vested

120
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,180
in Congress by the Constitution

121
00:04:36,199 --> 00:04:36,699
without

122
00:04:37,134 --> 00:04:37,634
limitation.

123
00:04:38,654 --> 00:04:41,074
So would this Supreme Court, as conservative

124
00:04:41,615 --> 00:04:43,875
as it is, go that far?

125
00:04:44,175 --> 00:04:45,395
Tossing out 200

126
00:04:46,254 --> 00:04:48,274
years of precedence and ignoring

127
00:04:48,654 --> 00:04:50,514
the plain text of the Constitution?

128
00:04:51,550 --> 00:04:53,649
I I certainly don't wanna make any predictions

129
00:04:53,709 --> 00:04:54,769
up here on my soapbox,

130
00:04:55,229 --> 00:04:57,009
but legally speaking,

131
00:04:57,709 --> 00:05:00,529
Utah is making as crazy an argument

132
00:05:01,069 --> 00:05:03,410
as you will ever see here.

133
00:05:03,894 --> 00:05:05,495
And with that, I will step down off

134
00:05:05,495 --> 00:05:07,175
my soapbox and we'll get you to listen

135
00:05:07,175 --> 00:05:08,474
to this 200th episode.

136
00:05:11,574 --> 00:05:15,094
Well, hi everyone. Welcome to the CWP conference

137
00:05:15,094 --> 00:05:17,914
room and virtual Kate from Utah.

138
00:05:19,269 --> 00:05:21,750
Before we dive in here, I wanna introduce

139
00:05:21,750 --> 00:05:24,229
everyone. I think listeners have heard just about

140
00:05:24,229 --> 00:05:26,229
everyone here on the podcast at one point

141
00:05:26,229 --> 00:05:27,910
or another, but let's just go around the

142
00:05:27,910 --> 00:05:30,009
room. Everyone, please introduce yourselves.

143
00:05:31,214 --> 00:05:33,774
Hi. I'm Jen Rocola. I'm the executive director

144
00:05:33,774 --> 00:05:36,495
of CWP, and I've been with, CWP for

145
00:05:36,495 --> 00:05:37,235
9 years.

146
00:05:38,014 --> 00:05:40,735
I'm Rachel Hamby. I'm the policy director, and

147
00:05:40,735 --> 00:05:42,754
I have been here for almost 2 years.

148
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,540
I'm Lauren Bogard. I'm the director of campaigns

149
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,860
and special projects, and I've been with CWP

150
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,620
for five and a half years.

151
00:05:51,319 --> 00:05:53,639
I'm Sterling Homard. I am the outreach and

152
00:05:53,639 --> 00:05:56,839
campaigns associate, and I've been here for almost

153
00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:57,500
2 years.

154
00:05:57,935 --> 00:06:00,894
I'm Lily Bach Brownstein. I'm the creative content

155
00:06:00,894 --> 00:06:03,394
and policy manager, and I've been here for

156
00:06:03,615 --> 00:06:04,595
over 2 years.

157
00:06:05,535 --> 00:06:07,454
And you guys know me. I'm Kate Gretzinger,

158
00:06:07,454 --> 00:06:09,154
and I've been here for 3 years.

159
00:06:09,694 --> 00:06:12,379
Wow. And that's all of us. It's kind

160
00:06:12,379 --> 00:06:14,720
of fun having everyone everyone here at once.

161
00:06:15,579 --> 00:06:18,000
Because this is a special episode and

162
00:06:18,540 --> 00:06:21,259
our opportunity to look inward and talk about

163
00:06:21,259 --> 00:06:22,879
what drove us all here,

164
00:06:23,334 --> 00:06:27,035
I wanna just hear what drove everyone into

165
00:06:27,735 --> 00:06:30,375
this conservation work that we do. It seems

166
00:06:30,375 --> 00:06:31,894
like every time I talk to anyone in

167
00:06:31,894 --> 00:06:33,115
the conservation community,

168
00:06:33,415 --> 00:06:35,435
someone's got a an interesting

169
00:06:35,894 --> 00:06:36,394
origin

170
00:06:36,694 --> 00:06:39,819
story of how they how they landed here.

171
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,220
Anyone wanna go first?

172
00:06:43,319 --> 00:06:45,160
Otherwise, we'll just we'll just pick some names.

173
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,540
Let's start start with Lauren.

174
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,759
So it's funny to me to do career

175
00:06:48,759 --> 00:06:51,024
look backs because it's I I have the

176
00:06:51,024 --> 00:06:52,805
kind of path that only makes sense

177
00:06:53,264 --> 00:06:55,664
looking backward. It's not as though I knew

178
00:06:55,664 --> 00:06:57,824
where I'd end up. But now that I

179
00:06:57,824 --> 00:06:59,365
do look back, I can see that

180
00:06:59,904 --> 00:07:00,404
outdoor

181
00:07:01,024 --> 00:07:01,524
experiences

182
00:07:02,224 --> 00:07:02,724
and

183
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:03,899
an appreciation

184
00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:06,920
and connection to the outdoor landscape is a

185
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,300
thread that is run through

186
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,519
everywhere I've been in my life and everywhere

187
00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:12,459
I've worked, and it's personally meaningful,

188
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,519
in part because I grew up in the

189
00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:17,000
foothills west of Denver and went on hikes

190
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,415
with my parents who were high school teachers.

191
00:07:19,555 --> 00:07:22,035
My dad was a biology teacher, so he

192
00:07:22,035 --> 00:07:23,875
made sure that we learned the birds and

193
00:07:23,875 --> 00:07:25,654
the plants and all the other animals.

194
00:07:27,555 --> 00:07:28,294
No. Kate.

195
00:07:28,915 --> 00:07:29,415
Sure.

196
00:07:29,875 --> 00:07:32,035
Yeah. Again, similar to Lauren, I did not

197
00:07:32,035 --> 00:07:34,269
plan to end up in conservation work, especially

198
00:07:34,269 --> 00:07:36,289
public lands work. I grew up in Texas,

199
00:07:36,669 --> 00:07:37,169
famously

200
00:07:37,789 --> 00:07:39,490
does not have any public lands.

201
00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:41,169
And that's kind of

202
00:07:41,470 --> 00:07:43,149
why I first fell in love with public

203
00:07:43,149 --> 00:07:45,314
lands. I moved west to work for to

204
00:07:45,314 --> 00:07:48,035
work in public radio in southern Utah, and

205
00:07:48,035 --> 00:07:50,115
I was just shocked that there was that

206
00:07:50,115 --> 00:07:51,954
all of this land that was open to

207
00:07:51,954 --> 00:07:54,435
anyone because in Texas, you have to be

208
00:07:54,435 --> 00:07:55,334
pretty wealthy

209
00:07:55,634 --> 00:07:56,134
to

210
00:07:56,849 --> 00:07:59,649
to have wild spaces that are accessible to

211
00:07:59,649 --> 00:08:00,870
you. There aren't that many.

212
00:08:01,569 --> 00:08:04,370
Basically, there's big ranches that are privately owned.

213
00:08:04,370 --> 00:08:05,729
So I really fell in love with the

214
00:08:05,729 --> 00:08:08,209
concept of public land. And then during COVID,

215
00:08:08,209 --> 00:08:09,909
I lived in a tiny town

216
00:08:10,235 --> 00:08:12,555
called Bluff right next to Bears Ears National

217
00:08:12,555 --> 00:08:14,334
Monument, and I really,

218
00:08:15,035 --> 00:08:16,654
sought refuge in,

219
00:08:17,194 --> 00:08:19,454
the canyons of Bears Ears, just hiking

220
00:08:19,995 --> 00:08:22,794
with by myself and with close friends all

221
00:08:22,794 --> 00:08:24,654
throughout the COVID times.

222
00:08:25,019 --> 00:08:27,019
So, yeah, that that really led me to

223
00:08:27,019 --> 00:08:29,019
form a personal connection with public lands and

224
00:08:29,019 --> 00:08:31,099
just a great appreciation for them, and that

225
00:08:31,099 --> 00:08:32,079
brought me to CWP.

226
00:08:34,379 --> 00:08:36,379
So I spend a lot of time on

227
00:08:36,379 --> 00:08:39,659
public lands backpacking and climbing, and the majority

228
00:08:39,659 --> 00:08:40,995
of that time, I'm by myself.

229
00:08:41,554 --> 00:08:43,794
Self and what I love about being alone

230
00:08:43,794 --> 00:08:45,634
out in those places is that it's one

231
00:08:45,634 --> 00:08:47,714
of the few times we could truly just

232
00:08:47,714 --> 00:08:48,375
be yourself

233
00:08:48,914 --> 00:08:51,794
and the landscape accepts you but also challenges

234
00:08:51,794 --> 00:08:53,955
you and you can learn a lot about

235
00:08:53,955 --> 00:08:56,190
who you are whether it's surprising yourself with

236
00:08:56,350 --> 00:08:58,590
being stronger or more capable than you thought

237
00:08:58,590 --> 00:08:59,169
you were,

238
00:08:59,470 --> 00:09:01,149
or whether it's having a weakness or a

239
00:09:01,149 --> 00:09:03,789
fear exposed and having to overcome it. So

240
00:09:03,789 --> 00:09:05,870
these are places that have offered me so

241
00:09:05,870 --> 00:09:08,269
much and pushed me to be better. And

242
00:09:08,269 --> 00:09:10,830
working to conserve and protect these places from

243
00:09:10,830 --> 00:09:13,044
development and harm is a way that I

244
00:09:13,044 --> 00:09:15,204
can offer something in return and make sure

245
00:09:15,204 --> 00:09:17,924
this opportunity is there for anyone else who's

246
00:09:17,924 --> 00:09:19,865
looking for it now and in the future.

247
00:09:20,725 --> 00:09:22,824
Okay. Well, that wins for the deepest

248
00:09:23,445 --> 00:09:24,584
cut so far.

249
00:09:25,284 --> 00:09:25,784
Sterling?

250
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:27,399
Let's see if I can win for the

251
00:09:27,399 --> 00:09:28,299
most shallow.

252
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:31,740
Well,

253
00:09:32,279 --> 00:09:33,799
for as long as I can remember, I

254
00:09:33,799 --> 00:09:35,639
just wanted to be outside. Even when I

255
00:09:35,639 --> 00:09:36,839
was a kid, I would just, like, wanna

256
00:09:36,839 --> 00:09:38,919
be in the front yard playing basketball, you

257
00:09:38,919 --> 00:09:39,345
know.

258
00:09:40,225 --> 00:09:41,824
And I grew up in Minnesota so there

259
00:09:41,824 --> 00:09:44,404
were some outdoor opportunities there. I would nordic

260
00:09:44,464 --> 00:09:47,345
ski, I would canoe, I would fish, do

261
00:09:47,345 --> 00:09:48,804
all the Minnesota things,

262
00:09:50,464 --> 00:09:52,784
but it wasn't until I moved out to

263
00:09:52,784 --> 00:09:54,884
Colorado that I realized how

264
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:55,860
accessible

265
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,860
public lands are out here,

266
00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:00,000
and it just made me fall in love

267
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,860
with being outdoors all over again.

268
00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:05,840
So being out here, I've gotten more into

269
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,960
outdoor climbing and and backpacking and hiking and

270
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,384
and just enjoying

271
00:10:10,764 --> 00:10:13,565
mountainous landscapes, something that that Minnesota doesn't have

272
00:10:13,565 --> 00:10:14,384
too much of.

273
00:10:15,565 --> 00:10:17,904
And, also, I think, like, being Gen z

274
00:10:17,965 --> 00:10:18,705
has shaped,

275
00:10:19,565 --> 00:10:21,825
how I got into conservation as well.

276
00:10:22,764 --> 00:10:24,730
I feel like it wasn't until the 2000

277
00:10:24,730 --> 00:10:26,509
or so that we really started taking

278
00:10:26,889 --> 00:10:29,149
climate change and biodiversity

279
00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:30,590
threats seriously.

280
00:10:31,529 --> 00:10:33,210
And so growing up, I learned about those

281
00:10:33,210 --> 00:10:35,384
things in school, and I learned that the

282
00:10:35,384 --> 00:10:37,785
outdoor places that I love most might not

283
00:10:37,785 --> 00:10:39,625
exist if we don't do something about it.

284
00:10:39,625 --> 00:10:41,485
So I think that's why I'm here.

285
00:10:41,945 --> 00:10:42,445
Lily?

286
00:10:43,545 --> 00:10:45,705
Yeah. I mean, common thread here. I grew

287
00:10:45,705 --> 00:10:47,165
up with a really

288
00:10:47,625 --> 00:10:51,009
deep appreciation for being outdoors as a kid.

289
00:10:51,009 --> 00:10:52,850
I grew up on the East Coast in

290
00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:56,070
Vermont where we hiked and camped and snowboarded

291
00:10:56,370 --> 00:10:56,870
and,

292
00:10:57,490 --> 00:10:58,950
you know, played in the

293
00:10:59,330 --> 00:11:01,429
somewhat polluted creek in my backyard.

294
00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:05,110
And I always knew I wanted to

295
00:11:05,554 --> 00:11:07,634
do something in connection with the outdoors and

296
00:11:07,634 --> 00:11:10,195
nature. But when I moved out west and

297
00:11:10,195 --> 00:11:12,434
sort of discovered what public lands were, which

298
00:11:12,434 --> 00:11:13,254
is not something

299
00:11:13,634 --> 00:11:15,554
we really have on a big scale on

300
00:11:15,554 --> 00:11:16,454
the East Coast,

301
00:11:16,834 --> 00:11:18,914
it just, like, really blew my mind about

302
00:11:18,914 --> 00:11:22,050
what it offered the community. And my first

303
00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:22,610
real

304
00:11:22,990 --> 00:11:25,790
long term full time job was working on

305
00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:27,629
managing public lands at the county level, and

306
00:11:27,629 --> 00:11:30,190
that gave me a real appreciation for what

307
00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:32,930
it takes to keep those lands protected and

308
00:11:33,309 --> 00:11:34,450
managed for

309
00:11:34,875 --> 00:11:37,514
all the uses that people love to use

310
00:11:37,514 --> 00:11:38,575
them for and,

311
00:11:39,195 --> 00:11:42,154
really inspired me to wanna work to see

312
00:11:42,154 --> 00:11:44,254
more lands protected in a thoughtful way.

313
00:11:44,794 --> 00:11:45,294
Jen?

314
00:11:46,554 --> 00:11:48,075
I was really lucky to grow up in

315
00:11:48,075 --> 00:11:50,290
Colorado, and my parents would take us on

316
00:11:50,290 --> 00:11:52,149
vacations, whether it was up to the mountains,

317
00:11:53,330 --> 00:11:56,450
west of Denver, or to national parks. We

318
00:11:56,450 --> 00:11:58,149
spent a lot of time going to Yellowstone

319
00:11:58,370 --> 00:12:00,850
and Grand Teton. And in a lot of

320
00:12:00,850 --> 00:12:03,009
ways, I feel like I took access to

321
00:12:03,009 --> 00:12:05,865
public lands for granted growing up here. And

322
00:12:05,945 --> 00:12:07,705
it was in college when I was doing

323
00:12:07,705 --> 00:12:10,024
a bike tour around Colorado called ride the

324
00:12:10,024 --> 00:12:11,004
Rockies, and

325
00:12:11,384 --> 00:12:13,225
you spend a lot of time just sitting

326
00:12:13,225 --> 00:12:15,384
on a mountain pass, pedaling up and looking

327
00:12:15,384 --> 00:12:16,044
at these

328
00:12:16,424 --> 00:12:19,384
really just spectacular views. And that's when I

329
00:12:19,384 --> 00:12:21,804
knew I wanted to work in conservation, and

330
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,139
my path to conservation

331
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:27,040
came through working for public officials, elected officials

332
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:27,540
who

333
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,680
prioritize conservation. Former governor Roy Romer and former

334
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,059
US senator Mark Udall

335
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,014
were the 2 people who really influenced my

336
00:12:36,014 --> 00:12:39,134
passion for conservation and working to protect public

337
00:12:39,134 --> 00:12:39,634
lands.

338
00:12:40,575 --> 00:12:43,695
Yeah. Like like Kate, I I came into

339
00:12:43,695 --> 00:12:44,195
advocacy

340
00:12:44,735 --> 00:12:45,955
through journalism.

341
00:12:47,375 --> 00:12:47,875
And

342
00:12:48,269 --> 00:12:49,490
for me, it was

343
00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:52,269
growing up in in Tucson, which is, of

344
00:12:52,269 --> 00:12:53,730
course, surrounded by

345
00:12:54,190 --> 00:12:57,470
public lands and also through journalism. My mom

346
00:12:57,470 --> 00:12:58,769
was a news anchor

347
00:12:59,230 --> 00:13:01,950
in Tucson. And when I was about 9

348
00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:03,170
or 10 years old,

349
00:13:04,075 --> 00:13:05,914
she dragged me along as she was doing

350
00:13:05,914 --> 00:13:08,735
a reporting series on the San Pedro River,

351
00:13:09,034 --> 00:13:11,514
which we've ended up since talking about here

352
00:13:11,514 --> 00:13:13,294
on the podcast many times.

353
00:13:13,754 --> 00:13:15,934
But that was really an eye opener

354
00:13:16,394 --> 00:13:17,134
for me

355
00:13:17,754 --> 00:13:18,254
on

356
00:13:18,839 --> 00:13:19,339
threats

357
00:13:20,039 --> 00:13:21,799
to these lands and, in this case, to

358
00:13:21,799 --> 00:13:22,299
a

359
00:13:23,079 --> 00:13:23,579
spectacular

360
00:13:23,879 --> 00:13:25,980
riparian area so unlike

361
00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:28,700
anything else in the desert there

362
00:13:29,159 --> 00:13:31,579
and, you know, that's one of those

363
00:13:32,034 --> 00:13:34,355
formative experiences for me growing up in the

364
00:13:34,355 --> 00:13:34,855
desert

365
00:13:35,235 --> 00:13:38,195
that carried with me all along and, I

366
00:13:38,195 --> 00:13:39,875
mean, I think folks who've listened to this

367
00:13:39,875 --> 00:13:42,434
podcast over the last 199 episodes know that

368
00:13:42,434 --> 00:13:42,934
whenever

369
00:13:43,315 --> 00:13:45,554
anything in that area comes up, whether it's

370
00:13:45,554 --> 00:13:47,950
the San Pedro or the the Rosemont copper

371
00:13:47,950 --> 00:13:50,190
mine or the Santa Arenas, I I still

372
00:13:50,190 --> 00:13:53,070
feel that and take that very personally because

373
00:13:53,070 --> 00:13:54,850
it's it's the land I

374
00:13:55,309 --> 00:13:56,289
grew up around.

375
00:13:57,230 --> 00:13:59,230
And I mean, I really love hearing this

376
00:13:59,230 --> 00:14:00,929
from everyone because it is that

377
00:14:01,485 --> 00:14:01,985
connection.

378
00:14:02,445 --> 00:14:04,625
Right? There that that moment often

379
00:14:05,004 --> 00:14:06,785
growing up that that really,

380
00:14:08,285 --> 00:14:10,544
brought us where we are here today.

381
00:14:11,404 --> 00:14:12,304
Great. Well,

382
00:14:13,460 --> 00:14:14,820
you know, we've been here, some of us,

383
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:16,100
for a long time, some of us for

384
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:17,860
a short time, but we've all met some

385
00:14:17,860 --> 00:14:19,700
interesting people in the course of doing this

386
00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:20,200
work.

387
00:14:21,059 --> 00:14:22,980
Let's talk about that. Lauren, why don't you

388
00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:25,379
start us off again? Name some of the

389
00:14:25,379 --> 00:14:26,440
folks that you've

390
00:14:26,934 --> 00:14:29,735
met through your work with CWP and why

391
00:14:29,735 --> 00:14:30,954
they stuck in your mind.

392
00:14:31,495 --> 00:14:33,574
Sure thing. And it's a really wonderful and

393
00:14:33,574 --> 00:14:36,054
deep bench, but I'd be remiss if I

394
00:14:36,054 --> 00:14:37,834
didn't talk about AJ Carter

395
00:14:38,375 --> 00:14:40,855
and the team at Metropolis Media Group. Folks

396
00:14:40,855 --> 00:14:42,910
may not be aware. This is a a

397
00:14:42,910 --> 00:14:45,870
person who is a jack of all trades

398
00:14:45,870 --> 00:14:47,250
when it comes to videography,

399
00:14:47,710 --> 00:14:48,210
cinematography,

400
00:14:48,750 --> 00:14:49,250
sound,

401
00:14:50,350 --> 00:14:52,830
and he has helped us produce the road

402
00:14:52,830 --> 00:14:53,809
to 30 postcard

403
00:14:54,429 --> 00:14:57,250
films. And he works with some really talented

404
00:14:57,389 --> 00:14:58,210
film editors

405
00:14:58,884 --> 00:15:01,284
as well. And there's just been such a

406
00:15:01,284 --> 00:15:03,284
pleasure in getting to know him as a

407
00:15:03,284 --> 00:15:04,745
person and to seeing his

408
00:15:05,204 --> 00:15:06,184
delight and

409
00:15:07,524 --> 00:15:08,024
amazing

410
00:15:08,565 --> 00:15:09,065
attitude

411
00:15:09,445 --> 00:15:10,985
about going to these

412
00:15:11,690 --> 00:15:13,470
remote places and,

413
00:15:14,250 --> 00:15:16,169
somehow he manages to be a one man

414
00:15:16,169 --> 00:15:16,669
band.

415
00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:19,529
And we have produced some some work that

416
00:15:19,529 --> 00:15:20,269
I'm incredibly

417
00:15:20,970 --> 00:15:22,649
proud of, and we've had a lot of

418
00:15:22,649 --> 00:15:24,590
fun along the way. So,

419
00:15:25,075 --> 00:15:27,315
folks may not realize how integral that's been

420
00:15:27,315 --> 00:15:29,315
to our production of these, but it's also

421
00:15:29,315 --> 00:15:31,975
been a really fun and pleasurable experience. And

422
00:15:32,195 --> 00:15:34,195
and I mean, really, a a secret weapon,

423
00:15:34,195 --> 00:15:35,414
I think, in terms of

424
00:15:35,794 --> 00:15:38,115
the quality of the work, the shooting that

425
00:15:38,115 --> 00:15:40,710
he does, and we haven't really talked about

426
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:42,790
it here, but several of those road to

427
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:45,190
30 films have end up in film festivals

428
00:15:45,190 --> 00:15:47,690
and and getting a nice amount of recognition

429
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:50,389
for the the work and the shooting and

430
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:51,850
editing that AJ has done.

431
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:53,414
Jen, how about you?

432
00:15:54,294 --> 00:15:56,214
I I think one of the things that

433
00:15:56,214 --> 00:15:58,554
we've been able to do is really help

434
00:15:58,855 --> 00:16:02,054
amplify the voices of conservation leaders, and that's

435
00:16:02,054 --> 00:16:04,615
from folks at the local level, but also

436
00:16:04,615 --> 00:16:07,049
folks at the federal, national level.

437
00:16:07,909 --> 00:16:11,029
Governor Bullock, former governor Bullock from Montana is

438
00:16:11,029 --> 00:16:13,769
a really amazing public lands advocate,

439
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:16,490
and it's been really fun to,

440
00:16:16,950 --> 00:16:19,345
you know, work with him in his office

441
00:16:19,345 --> 00:16:20,485
when he was governor.

442
00:16:21,105 --> 00:16:23,605
Former New Mexico senator Tom Udall.

443
00:16:24,304 --> 00:16:24,865
And then,

444
00:16:26,225 --> 00:16:28,784
our current BLM director, Tracy Stone Manning. We

445
00:16:28,784 --> 00:16:31,184
got to know Tracy before she was a

446
00:16:31,184 --> 00:16:34,399
BLM director, and it's been great to have

447
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:36,960
her leadership at the BLM as they've worked

448
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,620
to reform the oil and gas leasing process

449
00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:42,100
and implement the public lands rule.

450
00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:43,139
Awesome.

451
00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:44,980
Aaron, how about you?

452
00:16:46,945 --> 00:16:49,985
Some of the more curveball guests that we've

453
00:16:49,985 --> 00:16:52,164
had. I I love the number of authors

454
00:16:52,704 --> 00:16:54,704
that we've gotten to talk to on the

455
00:16:54,704 --> 00:16:55,204
podcast,

456
00:16:55,745 --> 00:16:57,105
over the years. I mean, going all the

457
00:16:57,105 --> 00:16:59,024
way back, one of the very early episodes

458
00:16:59,024 --> 00:17:01,504
was with a a writer named Mike Finkel

459
00:17:01,504 --> 00:17:02,519
who wrote a book,

460
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:04,059
about this

461
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,220
hermit who lived in the Maine woods

462
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:08,440
for decades, and and Mike now is back

463
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,380
on top of the New York Times bestseller

464
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,440
charts with a book about an art art

465
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:12,940
heist.

466
00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:16,759
Tommy Caldwell, obviously, not not an author, but

467
00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:17,660
just a legendary

468
00:17:18,494 --> 00:17:20,974
climber and what what a treat it was

469
00:17:20,974 --> 00:17:23,775
talking to him and, again, those connections and

470
00:17:23,775 --> 00:17:25,234
origin stories of what

471
00:17:25,535 --> 00:17:28,414
leads someone who has a very successful career

472
00:17:28,414 --> 00:17:29,154
as an athlete

473
00:17:29,855 --> 00:17:33,349
into advocacy, those kinds of conversations that I

474
00:17:33,349 --> 00:17:36,309
think any other, you know, conservation group that

475
00:17:36,309 --> 00:17:38,230
didn't have the freedom that we do here

476
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:40,549
to have those kinds of conversations wouldn't happen.

477
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:42,490
I've I've really appreciated that.

478
00:17:43,269 --> 00:17:44,570
Awesome. Well, I'll go

479
00:17:45,644 --> 00:17:48,205
Through our work with the postcards video series

480
00:17:48,205 --> 00:17:50,384
that Lauren mentioned earlier, I got to meet

481
00:17:50,684 --> 00:17:51,184
Regina,

482
00:17:51,884 --> 00:17:54,684
White Skunk Lopez. She is a Ute Mountain

483
00:17:54,684 --> 00:17:58,125
Ute Tribal member and a huge advocate, for

484
00:17:58,125 --> 00:18:00,130
the Bears Ears National Monument. She was on

485
00:18:00,130 --> 00:18:02,769
the intertribal coalition at one point, and I

486
00:18:02,769 --> 00:18:05,009
had heard her name just because I lived

487
00:18:05,009 --> 00:18:07,809
in Bluff for years. And then I got

488
00:18:07,809 --> 00:18:09,490
the chance to actually reach out to her

489
00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:10,769
and ask her to be in the video

490
00:18:10,769 --> 00:18:13,169
and meet her and even actually become friends

491
00:18:13,169 --> 00:18:15,424
with her. So that was a really, really

492
00:18:15,424 --> 00:18:18,305
cool for full circle experience for me. Let's

493
00:18:18,305 --> 00:18:20,325
listen to a clip of that real quick.

494
00:18:24,625 --> 00:18:26,964
My name is Regina Lopez Whiteskunk.

495
00:18:27,345 --> 00:18:29,505
I'm a former elected official for the Ute

496
00:18:29,505 --> 00:18:32,009
Mountain Ute Tribe. I'm also a former co

497
00:18:32,009 --> 00:18:34,109
chair of the Bears Ears Intertribal

498
00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:34,990
Coalition.

499
00:18:35,609 --> 00:18:37,630
What I feel when I come out here

500
00:18:37,690 --> 00:18:40,750
is like I come home. There's a connection.

501
00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:42,669
It's like I come to visit,

502
00:18:43,049 --> 00:18:43,710
a relative.

503
00:18:47,984 --> 00:18:50,085
Does anyone else have anyone they wanna mention?

504
00:18:51,105 --> 00:18:52,625
I would mention some folks. So,

505
00:18:53,184 --> 00:18:56,224
Lauren mentioned AJ, and, so he's he's our

506
00:18:56,224 --> 00:18:56,724
cinematographer.

507
00:18:57,744 --> 00:19:00,339
Worked with him on the postcards campaign. He's

508
00:19:00,339 --> 00:19:02,820
just the coolest dude. Like, he's great at

509
00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:05,220
what he does. He produces amazing videos for

510
00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:06,980
us, but he's just so fun to be

511
00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:07,480
around.

512
00:19:08,180 --> 00:19:10,019
If you could just imagine, like, the most

513
00:19:10,019 --> 00:19:10,519
Australian

514
00:19:11,484 --> 00:19:11,984
cinematographer

515
00:19:12,605 --> 00:19:15,804
capturing nature and wildlife, that's him. We'll be,

516
00:19:15,804 --> 00:19:17,085
like, getting a shot, and he's, like, look

517
00:19:17,085 --> 00:19:19,244
at this bay. We need this bay to

518
00:19:19,244 --> 00:19:21,325
come back, and we're gonna win some awards

519
00:19:21,325 --> 00:19:22,304
with this one.

520
00:19:22,684 --> 00:19:24,869
He's amazing. He's just so fun. That's so

521
00:19:24,869 --> 00:19:26,730
accurate. Now now we're gonna need an AJ.

522
00:19:26,869 --> 00:19:28,809
You are right. We did win some awards.

523
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:31,269
Yeah. Yeah. Heck, yeah. Yeah. We got film

524
00:19:31,269 --> 00:19:34,329
fests. He's like our, resident Steve Irwin.

525
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:35,210
Exactly.

526
00:19:35,670 --> 00:19:36,170
Exactly.

527
00:19:36,724 --> 00:19:39,125
So AJ is great. Also, it's worth noting

528
00:19:39,125 --> 00:19:41,205
that I'm a Weese Fellow too. So I'm

529
00:19:41,205 --> 00:19:43,525
the outreach and campaigns associate with CWP, but

530
00:19:43,525 --> 00:19:44,184
I'm also,

531
00:19:44,565 --> 00:19:46,244
a Weese Fellow and that my position is

532
00:19:46,244 --> 00:19:48,164
a 2 year fellowship supported by the Weese

533
00:19:48,164 --> 00:19:49,625
Foundation. And there are,

534
00:19:49,970 --> 00:19:52,230
I don't know, 10 other Wyss Fellows nationwide,

535
00:19:52,930 --> 00:19:54,769
and I get the chance to meet them

536
00:19:54,769 --> 00:19:55,509
every year.

537
00:19:56,049 --> 00:19:58,789
And so they're all just awesome people,

538
00:19:59,170 --> 00:20:00,070
and it has,

539
00:20:01,250 --> 00:20:03,570
been amazing to develop those connections, not just,

540
00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:05,509
like, in Colorado either. It's nationwide

541
00:20:05,884 --> 00:20:07,664
that these other Weez fellows are. So,

542
00:20:08,525 --> 00:20:09,585
there's some awesome

543
00:20:09,965 --> 00:20:10,865
awesome people.

544
00:20:12,285 --> 00:20:14,365
I I wanna turn to some of the

545
00:20:14,365 --> 00:20:17,005
places we've been. We've had the chance to

546
00:20:17,005 --> 00:20:18,625
to travel a bit,

547
00:20:19,244 --> 00:20:20,900
some of it as a group,

548
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,940
some individually to to various

549
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:24,820
spots,

550
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:26,740
and

551
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,960
I mean, I appreciate, of course, not being

552
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,119
stuck in an office or stuck working from

553
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:31,619
home

554
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:32,980
all day long.

555
00:20:33,664 --> 00:20:35,525
But but I'd love to hear from

556
00:20:36,224 --> 00:20:38,464
folks about where they've been outside of the

557
00:20:38,464 --> 00:20:39,444
office and

558
00:20:39,744 --> 00:20:41,184
what are some of those trips that have

559
00:20:41,184 --> 00:20:42,884
been the most meaningful.

560
00:20:43,585 --> 00:20:45,424
And let's let's start with Lily on this

561
00:20:45,424 --> 00:20:45,750
one.

562
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:48,789
Sure. Well, I think one of the most

563
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:50,390
exciting places that we actually went as a

564
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:53,049
whole team was the Dolores River Canyonlands

565
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:56,150
out in Western Colorado, where there's a proposed

566
00:20:56,150 --> 00:20:57,049
national monument.

567
00:20:57,589 --> 00:21:01,394
And we took an amazing tour of the

568
00:21:01,555 --> 00:21:03,634
area and just got to see what makes

569
00:21:03,634 --> 00:21:04,855
it special and why

570
00:21:05,154 --> 00:21:07,015
it should be protected. And

571
00:21:07,315 --> 00:21:09,474
it getting actual eyes on a place that

572
00:21:09,474 --> 00:21:11,315
you write about and talk about is, like,

573
00:21:11,315 --> 00:21:14,375
a really important thing, and it makes it

574
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:15,380
easier

575
00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:17,440
to write about it in the future when

576
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:18,720
you know what you're talking about and you

577
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,019
really mean what you're saying.

578
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,920
And so I got the chance to go

579
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,759
out there both when we were out there

580
00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:26,480
as a team and then attending a listening

581
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,200
session held by senator Hickenlooper where I got

582
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,565
to hear a lot of perspectives of people

583
00:21:31,565 --> 00:21:33,004
who live there and why they think it's

584
00:21:33,004 --> 00:21:35,424
important to protect the area as well.

585
00:21:36,365 --> 00:21:38,605
Kate, you're lucky that you've gotten to do

586
00:21:38,605 --> 00:21:40,625
some of this stuff right in your backyard.

587
00:21:41,644 --> 00:21:44,365
Yeah. Absolutely. The the Bears Ears video that

588
00:21:44,365 --> 00:21:46,820
we worked on was literally shot in my

589
00:21:46,820 --> 00:21:47,320
backyard,

590
00:21:47,940 --> 00:21:49,539
so that was really cool. But I've also

591
00:21:49,539 --> 00:21:50,519
gotten to travel

592
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:53,220
to places I absolutely never would have gone,

593
00:21:53,460 --> 00:21:55,000
other if it weren't for CWP,

594
00:21:55,299 --> 00:21:57,160
like the Owyhee Canyonlands

595
00:21:57,779 --> 00:21:59,080
in Southern Oregon.

596
00:22:00,224 --> 00:22:02,625
That is an incredible landscape. There's a monument

597
00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:04,865
proposed to protect it right now, and there

598
00:22:04,865 --> 00:22:08,224
are just multiple areas within that region that

599
00:22:08,224 --> 00:22:10,065
could be national parks. And I was just

600
00:22:10,065 --> 00:22:11,825
floored to see it and floored to realize

601
00:22:11,825 --> 00:22:14,549
it wasn't protected. So that's just one example.

602
00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:16,769
If you live in Boise, you can get

603
00:22:16,769 --> 00:22:18,930
there pretty quickly, and and I highly recommend

604
00:22:18,930 --> 00:22:19,430
it.

605
00:22:20,049 --> 00:22:20,549
Jen?

606
00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:23,250
I would echo what Lily said about the,

607
00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:24,070
Dolores.

608
00:22:25,009 --> 00:22:28,184
It was really an great opportunity for all

609
00:22:28,184 --> 00:22:29,545
of us as a team to get out

610
00:22:29,545 --> 00:22:30,285
and see

611
00:22:30,904 --> 00:22:31,404
this

612
00:22:31,785 --> 00:22:32,924
incredible landscape

613
00:22:33,785 --> 00:22:35,404
that should be protected,

614
00:22:35,944 --> 00:22:36,444
and

615
00:22:36,904 --> 00:22:39,000
it was just awe inspiring to be there

616
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,640
with, Scott Braden, who knows the landscape so

617
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:42,940
well, and he could describe,

618
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,700
you know, the flora, the fauna, the geography,

619
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,380
the geology. And

620
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,839
it it makes a difference when you are

621
00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:52,599
on the ground and you're seeing a place

622
00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:54,460
that you're advocating to be protected.

623
00:22:55,715 --> 00:22:58,674
I would go back to our monuments to

624
00:22:58,674 --> 00:22:59,174
America

625
00:22:59,715 --> 00:23:02,434
RV tour, which was one of the first

626
00:23:02,434 --> 00:23:04,674
big projects at CWP that I got to

627
00:23:04,674 --> 00:23:07,095
work on where we we wrapped an RV

628
00:23:07,315 --> 00:23:08,535
and went

629
00:23:09,049 --> 00:23:11,049
across the west with a 30 foot tall

630
00:23:11,049 --> 00:23:12,669
inflatable Statue of Liberty

631
00:23:13,130 --> 00:23:16,589
to celebrate National Monuments and the antiquities act

632
00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:18,990
and stopping in in Grand Junction,

633
00:23:19,529 --> 00:23:23,224
seeing Colorado National Monument going through Southern California,

634
00:23:24,404 --> 00:23:26,585
and and sand to snow

635
00:23:26,964 --> 00:23:27,625
down there.

636
00:23:28,724 --> 00:23:32,345
Just getting to appreciate so many different landscapes

637
00:23:32,404 --> 00:23:32,904
within,

638
00:23:33,924 --> 00:23:35,305
within this region

639
00:23:36,579 --> 00:23:38,039
was amazing, but also

640
00:23:38,419 --> 00:23:41,139
all of the the local elected officials, all

641
00:23:41,139 --> 00:23:42,519
of the local conservation

642
00:23:42,899 --> 00:23:43,399
advocates

643
00:23:44,019 --> 00:23:46,419
that we got to meet and talk to

644
00:23:46,419 --> 00:23:47,639
in every city,

645
00:23:48,099 --> 00:23:50,679
and talking to reporters everywhere we went,

646
00:23:51,654 --> 00:23:53,195
creating what I thought was

647
00:23:54,535 --> 00:23:57,115
a really unifying message, pointing out

648
00:23:57,414 --> 00:24:00,795
how these national monuments bring folks together everywhere.

649
00:24:01,974 --> 00:24:03,994
I I just loved that experience

650
00:24:04,775 --> 00:24:05,595
so much,

651
00:24:07,230 --> 00:24:09,470
even even with, you know, 8 to 10

652
00:24:09,470 --> 00:24:09,970
hour,

653
00:24:10,430 --> 00:24:12,029
driving days in the RV every once in

654
00:24:12,029 --> 00:24:12,609
a while.

655
00:24:12,990 --> 00:24:14,670
Yeah. I I think that's right, Erin. And

656
00:24:14,670 --> 00:24:16,609
I think one of the things that CWP

657
00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:18,465
does really well is creating

658
00:24:19,005 --> 00:24:20,144
these opportunities

659
00:24:20,445 --> 00:24:23,184
and these campaigns to really highlight public lands.

660
00:24:23,805 --> 00:24:25,985
One thing that we did during the pandemic

661
00:24:26,285 --> 00:24:28,545
was create a virtual road tour.

662
00:24:29,485 --> 00:24:31,644
Since we couldn't leave our homes, we worked

663
00:24:31,644 --> 00:24:32,144
with

664
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:33,440
US senator,

665
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,339
Tom Udall to create

666
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,140
the road to 30 virtual tour.

667
00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:39,980
And we highlighted landscapes

668
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,460
throughout the west, talking to local elected officials,

669
00:24:45,115 --> 00:24:46,654
members of congress about

670
00:24:46,954 --> 00:24:48,095
30 by 30

671
00:24:48,554 --> 00:24:49,934
and the need to protect,

672
00:24:50,554 --> 00:24:51,454
public lands,

673
00:24:52,234 --> 00:24:54,174
to fight the climate crisis and the biodiversity

674
00:24:54,794 --> 00:24:56,954
crisis. But it was a great way when

675
00:24:56,954 --> 00:24:58,474
we were all locked up in our homes

676
00:24:58,474 --> 00:25:00,414
to really highlight public lands

677
00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:03,220
from all of these different states. And we

678
00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:05,059
we really helped lead the or lay the

679
00:25:05,059 --> 00:25:07,660
groundwork for the 30 by 30 movement. I

680
00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:09,859
I then I wanna take this opportunity then

681
00:25:09,859 --> 00:25:12,259
to hop in the the way back machine

682
00:25:12,259 --> 00:25:13,755
and play a clip from that,

683
00:25:14,315 --> 00:25:16,015
one of our our road to 30,

684
00:25:16,795 --> 00:25:18,255
live events with

685
00:25:18,555 --> 00:25:19,454
then congresswoman

686
00:25:19,994 --> 00:25:21,674
Deb Haaland, who, of course, is now the

687
00:25:21,674 --> 00:25:22,815
interior secretary.

688
00:25:23,275 --> 00:25:24,095
Take a listen.

689
00:25:25,115 --> 00:25:27,914
Tribes want to protect Chaco Canyon from gas

690
00:25:27,914 --> 00:25:29,970
and oil drilling. And look,

691
00:25:30,429 --> 00:25:32,929
in that area of New Mexico, the,

692
00:25:34,109 --> 00:25:36,669
the northwest corner of our state is the

693
00:25:36,669 --> 00:25:39,549
largest methane cloud in the world, just hovering

694
00:25:39,549 --> 00:25:41,409
above our state. So it's clear

695
00:25:41,894 --> 00:25:42,295
that,

696
00:25:42,695 --> 00:25:44,715
there is a lot of pollution already,

697
00:25:45,654 --> 00:25:47,914
emanating down into those communities.

698
00:25:49,095 --> 00:25:49,595
And

699
00:25:50,295 --> 00:25:51,115
lo and behold,

700
00:25:51,575 --> 00:25:54,795
here we are now 4 plus years later,

701
00:25:55,174 --> 00:25:56,634
and Chaco is protected.

702
00:25:57,849 --> 00:25:59,630
I mean, it's wonderful seeing that through line.

703
00:25:59,690 --> 00:26:00,970
And the BLM has,

704
00:26:01,369 --> 00:26:04,169
put forth and finalized a rule to reduce

705
00:26:04,169 --> 00:26:06,669
methane waste and leaks. So

706
00:26:07,289 --> 00:26:09,710
she really delivered on both of those fronts.

707
00:26:10,335 --> 00:26:12,255
So that's a pretty good segue into our

708
00:26:12,255 --> 00:26:15,294
next question, which is what is everyone here

709
00:26:15,294 --> 00:26:17,234
most proud of that they've done at CWP?

710
00:26:18,015 --> 00:26:19,794
Sterling, why don't you start us off?

711
00:26:20,414 --> 00:26:22,595
Sure. Well, I think for me, being

712
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:25,360
a young individual, this is this is my

713
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:27,539
first job out of college. Right? So

714
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,539
I have had the experiences

715
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,759
of, like, dipping my toes into all sorts

716
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:33,600
of new things, which is all I could

717
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:34,340
ask for,

718
00:26:35,404 --> 00:26:37,585
It's so so, like, early in my career.

719
00:26:37,964 --> 00:26:40,144
So things like filmmaking, video editing,

720
00:26:40,605 --> 00:26:43,565
you know, making content for for TikTok and

721
00:26:43,565 --> 00:26:45,105
and Instagram reels.

722
00:26:46,284 --> 00:26:48,784
And specifically with those things, taking really complex

723
00:26:48,924 --> 00:26:49,424
topics

724
00:26:50,009 --> 00:26:53,049
and and diluting them down into, you know,

725
00:26:53,049 --> 00:26:54,109
45 seconds

726
00:26:54,410 --> 00:26:57,690
and just, like, with quippy little sentences that

727
00:26:57,690 --> 00:26:59,549
that anybody can understand. That's,

728
00:27:00,809 --> 00:27:03,734
that takes understanding, like, deep understanding of topics

729
00:27:03,734 --> 00:27:05,734
to be able to to file it down

730
00:27:05,734 --> 00:27:06,954
to such a small size.

731
00:27:07,575 --> 00:27:09,355
So I'm proud of I'm proud of that.

732
00:27:11,174 --> 00:27:13,015
I'm just yeah. I think, like, I'm proud

733
00:27:13,015 --> 00:27:15,035
of the connections I've made too.

734
00:27:15,815 --> 00:27:17,734
The conservation realm I have learned is just

735
00:27:17,734 --> 00:27:18,634
very interconnected,

736
00:27:19,289 --> 00:27:21,630
One organization to another, like, we're all

737
00:27:21,930 --> 00:27:23,529
we're all talking with each other, and I

738
00:27:23,529 --> 00:27:26,090
think that's really awesome. And and I've made

739
00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:28,650
it a priority to to make connections to

740
00:27:28,650 --> 00:27:30,670
use this as an opportunity to,

741
00:27:31,964 --> 00:27:33,724
reach out to other folks that we work

742
00:27:33,724 --> 00:27:35,265
with on a day to day basis.

743
00:27:36,204 --> 00:27:38,765
I'm always amazed by how much we're able

744
00:27:38,765 --> 00:27:40,924
to do with such a small team. We

745
00:27:40,924 --> 00:27:43,265
put out an incredible amount of high quality

746
00:27:43,325 --> 00:27:45,419
content and we're able to seem like we're

747
00:27:45,419 --> 00:27:48,220
a much larger organization than we are because

748
00:27:48,220 --> 00:27:50,779
we're targeted and strategic with the content we

749
00:27:50,779 --> 00:27:53,579
produce. We ensure the research and analysis are

750
00:27:53,579 --> 00:27:55,980
thorough and accurate, and we invest in design

751
00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:57,900
so that the visual aspect of our work

752
00:27:57,900 --> 00:27:58,640
is compelling.

753
00:27:59,204 --> 00:28:01,845
I'm also really glad that CWP continues to

754
00:28:01,845 --> 00:28:04,005
track conservation policy at the state level in

755
00:28:04,005 --> 00:28:04,825
Western states

756
00:28:05,204 --> 00:28:07,224
and that we keep an eye on emerging

757
00:28:07,284 --> 00:28:09,365
issues that impact public lands in the west,

758
00:28:09,365 --> 00:28:11,924
whether that's a renewed interest in mining for

759
00:28:11,924 --> 00:28:13,384
uranium and critical minerals

760
00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:17,490
or accessing geothermal resources or exploring different carbon

761
00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:19,029
capture and storage technologies

762
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:21,490
and the impacts that all of those will

763
00:28:21,490 --> 00:28:23,509
have on public lands and on our climate.

764
00:28:24,609 --> 00:28:27,910
Lily Rachel mentioned the the visual impact, and,

765
00:28:28,805 --> 00:28:30,404
it should be noted for everyone listening that

766
00:28:30,404 --> 00:28:31,065
that is

767
00:28:31,525 --> 00:28:34,164
Lily doing that with her tremendous skill set.

768
00:28:34,164 --> 00:28:35,765
So I just wanna open that up for

769
00:28:35,765 --> 00:28:38,085
you of what you've been the the most

770
00:28:38,085 --> 00:28:40,025
proud of or or learned the most doing.

771
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,880
Yeah. I mean, that's definitely something that when

772
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,880
I took this job, I was really excited

773
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,160
about because it's very clear that CWP really

774
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:49,779
values that beautiful

775
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,440
looking products are more engaging and more fun

776
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,025
and interesting for people

777
00:28:55,325 --> 00:28:56,625
to read and to,

778
00:28:57,325 --> 00:28:58,924
look at and take in. And so I

779
00:28:58,924 --> 00:29:00,845
was really excited to take that on as

780
00:29:00,845 --> 00:29:02,445
part of my role. So I've been able

781
00:29:02,445 --> 00:29:03,345
to contribute

782
00:29:04,045 --> 00:29:06,144
in that sense to all kinds of products,

783
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:09,269
different reports if they're print or they're an

784
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:12,650
online report on our website, like our conservation

785
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:14,650
toolbox report, which broke down

786
00:29:15,029 --> 00:29:18,069
a whole bunch of different designations and types

787
00:29:18,069 --> 00:29:19,609
of land protection. And

788
00:29:20,144 --> 00:29:22,144
I am really proud of the way that

789
00:29:22,144 --> 00:29:22,644
everybody

790
00:29:22,945 --> 00:29:24,244
is invested in,

791
00:29:24,705 --> 00:29:27,025
making sure those things are engaging and easy

792
00:29:27,025 --> 00:29:29,205
to read, because they look beautiful.

793
00:29:29,744 --> 00:29:32,225
And most recently, some really beautiful hats and

794
00:29:32,225 --> 00:29:34,965
stickers Oh, yeah. Particularly cute. Coming soon.

795
00:29:35,819 --> 00:29:37,599
Yeah. We got some new swag coming.

796
00:29:38,460 --> 00:29:40,480
I'll I'll jump in here. I'm I'm,

797
00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:42,779
again, just so proud of the postcard videos.

798
00:29:42,779 --> 00:29:45,740
Those are our short documentaries about, people working

799
00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:48,799
to protect iconic places throughout the United States.

800
00:29:49,865 --> 00:29:52,345
It's it's I never ever in my wildest

801
00:29:52,345 --> 00:29:53,944
dreams thought I would end up being a

802
00:29:53,944 --> 00:29:57,224
video producer, a a, quote, unquote, documentary producer,

803
00:29:57,224 --> 00:29:58,984
but it's been a blast learning how to

804
00:29:58,984 --> 00:29:59,644
do that.

805
00:30:00,264 --> 00:30:02,279
I'm also really proud of the podcast. I've

806
00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:04,279
taken over sort of the behind the scenes

807
00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:07,420
production of the podcast from booking to editing,

808
00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:10,920
to obviously hosting. So those are some things

809
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,080
that have been huge privileges that I'm really

810
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,940
proud of that I've gotten to do here.

811
00:30:15,285 --> 00:30:16,424
Erin, how about you?

812
00:30:17,285 --> 00:30:20,884
I well, I'm gonna punt to Jen first

813
00:30:20,884 --> 00:30:22,244
and then come back because I think what

814
00:30:22,244 --> 00:30:23,605
I'm gonna say is gonna be actually a

815
00:30:23,605 --> 00:30:26,085
little different from what what Jen's gonna gonna

816
00:30:26,085 --> 00:30:26,744
say here.

817
00:30:27,299 --> 00:30:29,080
Well, I'm really proud of

818
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:31,460
all of the campaigns that we've run, but

819
00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:33,380
one in particular is our winning the west

820
00:30:33,380 --> 00:30:33,880
campaign.

821
00:30:34,420 --> 00:30:36,200
We launched that in 2016,

822
00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:40,039
in an effort to really highlight conservation

823
00:30:40,340 --> 00:30:42,420
as an important issue to voters in the

824
00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:42,914
west.

825
00:30:43,475 --> 00:30:45,634
And what we've seen over the last 8

826
00:30:45,634 --> 00:30:46,134
years

827
00:30:46,674 --> 00:30:49,414
is really a measurable impact on

828
00:30:49,795 --> 00:30:51,015
conservation being

829
00:30:51,315 --> 00:30:52,695
front and center in

830
00:30:53,075 --> 00:30:53,575
campaigns

831
00:30:54,994 --> 00:30:57,634
for congress, for the local for campaigns at

832
00:30:57,634 --> 00:30:59,410
the local level, and we've seen it on

833
00:30:59,410 --> 00:31:03,250
both sides, both Democrats and Republicans really highlighting

834
00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:03,750
their

835
00:31:04,369 --> 00:31:04,869
conservation

836
00:31:05,170 --> 00:31:07,809
priorities. And we've also seen it translate into

837
00:31:07,809 --> 00:31:11,009
policy from the Great American Outdoors Act to

838
00:31:11,009 --> 00:31:13,984
the, you know, the full funding of, the

839
00:31:13,984 --> 00:31:16,704
Land and Water Conservation Fund to new national

840
00:31:16,704 --> 00:31:18,404
monuments. I mean, Camp Hale

841
00:31:18,704 --> 00:31:19,684
National Monument,

842
00:31:20,304 --> 00:31:21,525
came out of a report,

843
00:31:22,224 --> 00:31:23,684
that we issued

844
00:31:24,759 --> 00:31:26,359
8 years ago. Now that wasn't winning the

845
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:29,400
West, but still it was highlighting conservation as

846
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,819
an important issue to voters in the West.

847
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,700
And and I've been thinking a lot about

848
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,804
the accountability work that CWP

849
00:31:38,585 --> 00:31:40,125
has done, will continue

850
00:31:40,664 --> 00:31:41,325
to do.

851
00:31:41,704 --> 00:31:43,244
And thinking back to

852
00:31:43,944 --> 00:31:45,244
early in the Trump administration,

853
00:31:46,585 --> 00:31:48,605
the accountability work on,

854
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:52,869
regarding Ryan Zinke, the interior secretary who a

855
00:31:52,869 --> 00:31:54,309
lot of folks in our world thought was

856
00:31:54,309 --> 00:31:55,529
the the best case scenario

857
00:31:56,069 --> 00:31:58,809
for an interior secretary in a Trump administration

858
00:31:59,910 --> 00:32:01,910
and quickly turned out not to be, but

859
00:32:01,910 --> 00:32:04,625
also turned out to be quite the embarrassment

860
00:32:04,924 --> 00:32:07,505
both for the West and the administration.

861
00:32:08,285 --> 00:32:10,285
And, obviously, there are a lot of groups

862
00:32:10,285 --> 00:32:13,025
doing important accountability work in there,

863
00:32:13,325 --> 00:32:16,785
but tracking those public documents, tracking those calendars,

864
00:32:16,845 --> 00:32:17,904
being able to

865
00:32:18,285 --> 00:32:18,785
show,

866
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:21,940
the work that was going on to

867
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,720
bend the government to do the work of

868
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:25,220
industry.

869
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:29,700
I think the results that CWP

870
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:31,140
got

871
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:33,059
by doing that accountability

872
00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:35,884
work made an impact on the national stage.

873
00:32:35,884 --> 00:32:37,025
And it's one of those things,

874
00:32:38,285 --> 00:32:40,045
in my career that I will look back

875
00:32:40,045 --> 00:32:40,365
on,

876
00:32:41,164 --> 00:32:41,904
being incredibly

877
00:32:42,525 --> 00:32:45,164
proud of, as as unfortunate is that it's

878
00:32:45,164 --> 00:32:46,845
work that has to be done. I'm really

879
00:32:46,845 --> 00:32:47,904
glad we did it.

880
00:32:48,220 --> 00:32:50,460
No. Absolutely. I think the work that we

881
00:32:50,460 --> 00:32:53,100
did during that time was incredibly important to

882
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:54,400
the conservation community.

883
00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:57,039
Erin, can I add on to that? Yeah.

884
00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:58,799
I wasn't at the organization

885
00:32:59,420 --> 00:33:01,660
when you all did this, but doing, the

886
00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:02,880
sentiment analysis

887
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:03,680
when

888
00:33:03,984 --> 00:33:04,724
in 2017,

889
00:33:05,105 --> 00:33:07,184
there was a review of monuments under the

890
00:33:07,184 --> 00:33:10,224
Trump administration, and that led to the reduction

891
00:33:10,224 --> 00:33:12,464
in size of Grand Staircase and Bears Ears

892
00:33:12,464 --> 00:33:13,365
National Monument

893
00:33:13,744 --> 00:33:15,365
and figuring out a way to,

894
00:33:16,589 --> 00:33:19,390
analyze the public comment data and show have

895
00:33:19,390 --> 00:33:21,650
hard evidence that, what was it, 98%

896
00:33:22,269 --> 00:33:25,710
of respondents were opposed to reducing monuments. And

897
00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:27,650
so that's something that continuously

898
00:33:28,349 --> 00:33:30,589
surprises me and delights me about being at

899
00:33:30,589 --> 00:33:33,484
this organization is that these landscapes that we're

900
00:33:33,484 --> 00:33:35,825
talking about and these issues are main character

901
00:33:35,884 --> 00:33:37,565
in everything we do. And to bring those

902
00:33:37,565 --> 00:33:38,304
to life,

903
00:33:38,605 --> 00:33:39,984
we get to be creative.

904
00:33:40,605 --> 00:33:43,424
We get to be analytical and do research

905
00:33:43,484 --> 00:33:45,664
and there's storytelling in everything

906
00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:48,619
that we do. And it's there's just no

907
00:33:48,619 --> 00:33:50,460
limit to us coming up with new ways

908
00:33:50,460 --> 00:33:52,619
to think of how can we add to

909
00:33:52,619 --> 00:33:55,019
the conversation and be helpful. And I would

910
00:33:55,019 --> 00:33:56,779
also say for me personally, I'm I'm at

911
00:33:56,779 --> 00:33:58,700
my best when I bite off way more

912
00:33:58,700 --> 00:33:59,839
than I can chew.

913
00:34:00,525 --> 00:34:02,205
And the reason is that I have this

914
00:34:02,205 --> 00:34:04,684
team of highly skilled people and we figure

915
00:34:04,684 --> 00:34:06,525
out how to do things like road to

916
00:34:06,525 --> 00:34:07,345
30 postcards.

917
00:34:07,965 --> 00:34:09,485
I don't think any of us knew what

918
00:34:09,485 --> 00:34:10,945
would actually be involved

919
00:34:11,405 --> 00:34:13,105
in putting that together. And

920
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:16,329
to look back, it's it's an enormous accomplishment,

921
00:34:16,390 --> 00:34:17,050
and it's

922
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:17,849
due

923
00:34:18,309 --> 00:34:21,210
to all the folks who, contributed to it.

924
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:23,349
Yeah. I I I thank you for mentioning

925
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:24,570
the the comments

926
00:34:25,110 --> 00:34:26,505
and us realizing

927
00:34:27,445 --> 00:34:29,284
there is data out there that we can

928
00:34:29,284 --> 00:34:29,784
use

929
00:34:30,405 --> 00:34:30,905
to

930
00:34:31,364 --> 00:34:33,525
to show how public lands are important and

931
00:34:33,525 --> 00:34:35,284
the fact that we've been able to return

932
00:34:35,284 --> 00:34:37,385
to that on so many issues,

933
00:34:38,019 --> 00:34:39,160
under 2 administrations

934
00:34:39,539 --> 00:34:40,039
now.

935
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,099
I yeah. Definitely one of the things that

936
00:34:42,099 --> 00:34:44,660
I'm I'm most proud of and and most

937
00:34:44,660 --> 00:34:47,140
enjoy as a data nerd, honestly. It's I

938
00:34:47,140 --> 00:34:48,740
I love it when we're able to to

939
00:34:48,740 --> 00:34:50,295
find those projects and do them.

940
00:34:50,694 --> 00:34:52,635
Okay. I'm gonna jump in here as well

941
00:34:53,014 --> 00:34:55,255
with something I am very proud of, which

942
00:34:55,255 --> 00:34:58,155
is sort of the workhorse of our organization,

943
00:34:58,295 --> 00:35:00,375
which is our newsletter, Look West. If you're

944
00:35:00,375 --> 00:35:02,855
not subscribed, this is a shameless plug. Please

945
00:35:02,855 --> 00:35:03,594
go subscribe.

946
00:35:04,619 --> 00:35:06,319
It's on our website under newsletter.

947
00:35:07,179 --> 00:35:07,679
We

948
00:35:08,139 --> 00:35:11,019
summarize the top public lands news around the

949
00:35:11,019 --> 00:35:11,519
west,

950
00:35:12,219 --> 00:35:14,460
every single day and send it to your

951
00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:17,199
inbox every morning. And I've heard from countless

952
00:35:17,894 --> 00:35:20,315
people in the conservation space, in journalism,

953
00:35:20,614 --> 00:35:21,355
in politics

954
00:35:21,655 --> 00:35:22,135
that,

955
00:35:23,094 --> 00:35:25,335
people an an art professor at the University

956
00:35:25,335 --> 00:35:28,074
of Utah, truly just people from all backgrounds,

957
00:35:28,295 --> 00:35:30,679
who say that our newsletter is a

958
00:35:31,059 --> 00:35:32,900
resource that they really rely on. So I'm

959
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:34,199
really proud of that, and,

960
00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:36,739
I think it's just a really cool thing

961
00:35:36,739 --> 00:35:37,480
that we do.

962
00:35:38,099 --> 00:35:40,099
Yeah. Rachel, part of your job as as

963
00:35:40,099 --> 00:35:41,559
policy director here

964
00:35:42,019 --> 00:35:45,480
is working on state issues in particular where,

965
00:35:45,655 --> 00:35:46,775
a lot of us will spend a lot

966
00:35:46,775 --> 00:35:48,775
of time focused on what's happening at the

967
00:35:48,775 --> 00:35:49,275
national

968
00:35:49,815 --> 00:35:52,775
level. You dive in, well, this year on

969
00:35:52,775 --> 00:35:55,515
every single state legislative session in an incredibly

970
00:35:56,295 --> 00:35:57,115
deep way.

971
00:35:57,575 --> 00:35:58,315
How does

972
00:35:58,690 --> 00:36:00,769
how do you compare those 2? How does

973
00:36:00,769 --> 00:36:02,530
one side of it inform the other part

974
00:36:02,530 --> 00:36:03,190
of the work?

975
00:36:04,690 --> 00:36:07,409
So being part of an organization that engages

976
00:36:07,409 --> 00:36:09,750
at the federal level on things like monument

977
00:36:09,809 --> 00:36:10,309
designations

978
00:36:10,610 --> 00:36:11,909
or agency rules

979
00:36:12,215 --> 00:36:14,135
that are going to apply to public lands

980
00:36:14,135 --> 00:36:15,114
across the country.

981
00:36:15,494 --> 00:36:17,894
It's inspiring to think about the size of

982
00:36:17,894 --> 00:36:20,135
landscapes that are being protected or the number

983
00:36:20,135 --> 00:36:22,295
of acres a new rule will apply to.

984
00:36:22,295 --> 00:36:24,235
The scale of the work feels so big,

985
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:26,519
But at the same time, I think sometimes

986
00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:28,619
you can wonder if you as an individual

987
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,840
are really making a difference, and you are.

988
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,599
You're a needed piece of a puzzle. It's

989
00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:34,680
just a really large puzzle with a really

990
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:35,980
large number of pieces.

991
00:36:36,735 --> 00:36:38,974
At the state level, in my experience, it's

992
00:36:38,974 --> 00:36:41,135
much easier to feel the impact you're making

993
00:36:41,135 --> 00:36:41,954
as an individual

994
00:36:42,414 --> 00:36:44,815
to see the direct influence you have on

995
00:36:44,815 --> 00:36:46,515
developing and advancing policy.

996
00:36:46,974 --> 00:36:48,735
But sometimes you can feel like that work

997
00:36:48,735 --> 00:36:50,974
pales in comparison to a federal rule or

998
00:36:50,974 --> 00:36:53,530
land designation because the numbers are smaller.

999
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:55,829
You're the same size of puzzle piece, but

1000
00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:57,929
in a smaller puzzle with fewer pieces.

1001
00:36:58,389 --> 00:37:01,210
So having now done both, I've learned that

1002
00:37:01,349 --> 00:37:03,849
neither one is more important or more impactful

1003
00:37:04,070 --> 00:37:06,389
that we need people doing good work at

1004
00:37:06,389 --> 00:37:07,050
all levels.

1005
00:37:07,505 --> 00:37:10,065
That is all critical and urgently needed and

1006
00:37:10,065 --> 00:37:12,224
that wherever you are, if you're not sure

1007
00:37:12,224 --> 00:37:14,164
if you're making a difference, keep going.

1008
00:37:15,344 --> 00:37:17,425
Awesome. Sterling, I wanna go to you next.

1009
00:37:17,425 --> 00:37:19,344
I have a question. We we shout you

1010
00:37:19,344 --> 00:37:20,909
out at the end of this podcast at

1011
00:37:21,069 --> 00:37:23,309
almost every episode and say, go follow our

1012
00:37:23,309 --> 00:37:25,069
TikTok because the work you're doing on there

1013
00:37:25,069 --> 00:37:26,530
is so awesome.

1014
00:37:26,989 --> 00:37:27,730
And CWP

1015
00:37:28,030 --> 00:37:29,409
has traditionally been,

1016
00:37:29,710 --> 00:37:30,190
you know,

1017
00:37:30,829 --> 00:37:31,710
engaged in a lot of

1018
00:37:32,349 --> 00:37:32,925
of more,

1019
00:37:33,405 --> 00:37:35,804
old school comms. We talk to journalists. We

1020
00:37:35,804 --> 00:37:37,664
put out press releases. We,

1021
00:37:38,204 --> 00:37:39,105
brief policymakers,

1022
00:37:39,405 --> 00:37:40,285
things like that.

1023
00:37:40,925 --> 00:37:43,965
But social media is becoming increasingly important. People

1024
00:37:43,965 --> 00:37:44,864
in your age

1025
00:37:45,530 --> 00:37:47,769
group are getting their news from social media,

1026
00:37:47,769 --> 00:37:49,769
the majority of folks in Gen z, I

1027
00:37:49,769 --> 00:37:50,090
believe.

1028
00:37:50,809 --> 00:37:52,010
So tell us a little bit about the

1029
00:37:52,010 --> 00:37:53,609
work you're doing on social media and why

1030
00:37:53,609 --> 00:37:54,269
it matters.

1031
00:37:55,289 --> 00:37:56,730
Well, I'm I'm Gen z. I'm the only

1032
00:37:56,730 --> 00:37:58,570
Gen z one at CWP, and I grew

1033
00:37:58,570 --> 00:38:00,224
up with social media. I mean, it was

1034
00:38:00,224 --> 00:38:02,065
just, like, part of part of my daily

1035
00:38:02,065 --> 00:38:03,925
life ever since probably middle school,

1036
00:38:04,945 --> 00:38:06,724
for better or for worse. You know?

1037
00:38:07,664 --> 00:38:09,684
But I think it's just, like, the primary

1038
00:38:09,744 --> 00:38:12,704
way of communicating your message with the general

1039
00:38:12,704 --> 00:38:14,980
public these days. You know? And and for

1040
00:38:14,980 --> 00:38:15,480
CWP

1041
00:38:15,780 --> 00:38:16,280
to

1042
00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:20,119
have such an important message of of protecting

1043
00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:21,079
public lands,

1044
00:38:21,380 --> 00:38:22,519
that's something that

1045
00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:25,700
that, the older generations and younger folks need

1046
00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:27,800
to be on board with alike. You know?

1047
00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:29,860
And so for us to to jump on

1048
00:38:29,860 --> 00:38:31,934
TikTok, it was a no brainer for me,

1049
00:38:31,934 --> 00:38:33,934
and I was happy to to take that

1050
00:38:33,934 --> 00:38:34,434
on.

1051
00:38:35,855 --> 00:38:37,474
I feel like I have a a connection

1052
00:38:37,535 --> 00:38:40,015
with my fellow Gen Zers and and younger

1053
00:38:40,015 --> 00:38:41,155
audiences. So,

1054
00:38:41,535 --> 00:38:43,775
it's been it's been really fun to, like,

1055
00:38:43,775 --> 00:38:46,739
take these complex topics and and and dilute

1056
00:38:46,739 --> 00:38:48,920
them down to something that's more bite sized.

1057
00:38:49,860 --> 00:38:52,500
And, yeah, it's just completely vital to to

1058
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:54,519
get the the younger folks on board.

1059
00:38:55,219 --> 00:38:57,079
I remember my first year

1060
00:38:58,125 --> 00:39:00,605
for the first certainly 6 months, maybe 12,

1061
00:39:00,605 --> 00:39:03,164
maybe 18 months. I just felt like I

1062
00:39:03,164 --> 00:39:05,585
was drinking from the fire hose,

1063
00:39:06,125 --> 00:39:09,905
learning things about public lands, public policy,

1064
00:39:10,284 --> 00:39:12,369
and, you know, I I came in here

1065
00:39:12,369 --> 00:39:14,389
thinking I was fairly wonky

1066
00:39:14,929 --> 00:39:17,090
in terms of my political knowledge. I I

1067
00:39:17,090 --> 00:39:19,969
just for Sterling and then anyone else, what

1068
00:39:19,969 --> 00:39:21,989
what is the what was that experience like

1069
00:39:22,369 --> 00:39:23,510
for you realizing,

1070
00:39:23,905 --> 00:39:25,505
oh, there's a whole lot here that I

1071
00:39:25,505 --> 00:39:26,565
don't even know yet?

1072
00:39:28,385 --> 00:39:30,785
It was like drinking from a fire hose,

1073
00:39:30,785 --> 00:39:32,945
I would say. Yeah. It was identical to

1074
00:39:32,945 --> 00:39:33,445
that.

1075
00:39:34,625 --> 00:39:36,385
I you know, it's funny because when you

1076
00:39:36,385 --> 00:39:37,985
apply to a job, you want to seem

1077
00:39:37,985 --> 00:39:40,260
like you're super qualified and you're like you

1078
00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:41,880
know the topic super well.

1079
00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:44,420
I promise you, nobody who applies for this

1080
00:39:44,420 --> 00:39:46,340
job could have known every single thing about

1081
00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:48,099
every single topic that we cover. I mean,

1082
00:39:48,099 --> 00:39:49,400
we're doing things from

1083
00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:50,200
from,

1084
00:39:50,505 --> 00:39:53,164
you know, energy development to oil and gas

1085
00:39:53,224 --> 00:39:54,364
leasing reform.

1086
00:39:55,065 --> 00:39:57,884
Those topics are incredibly dense,

1087
00:39:58,744 --> 00:40:01,164
and they still they still make me wanna

1088
00:40:01,224 --> 00:40:02,585
bang my head against the wall every once

1089
00:40:02,585 --> 00:40:04,340
in a while. But, I think that's a

1090
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:04,840
collective

1091
00:40:05,219 --> 00:40:08,280
feeling, Sterling, especially on energy reform.

1092
00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:10,660
But, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a

1093
00:40:10,660 --> 00:40:13,140
lot to come into an organization that does

1094
00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:15,140
so much with such a little team. But,

1095
00:40:15,140 --> 00:40:16,980
honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way.

1096
00:40:16,980 --> 00:40:19,554
Like I said, I'm I'm starting out my

1097
00:40:19,554 --> 00:40:21,795
career. And so to have something where I

1098
00:40:21,795 --> 00:40:24,035
can have all these different experiences straight out

1099
00:40:24,035 --> 00:40:27,074
of the gate, that gives me assets that

1100
00:40:27,074 --> 00:40:28,675
I can that I can use going into

1101
00:40:28,675 --> 00:40:29,335
the future.

1102
00:40:29,795 --> 00:40:30,855
I would say, Sterling,

1103
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:33,670
I learn something new every day, and there

1104
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:35,190
are days that I feel like I'm drinking

1105
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:36,410
from a fire hose.

1106
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:40,230
It's definitely the a fun part of this

1107
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:42,950
job. It's what keeps it interesting is that

1108
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:43,784
we get to

1109
00:40:44,505 --> 00:40:47,224
read up on things and become experts and

1110
00:40:47,224 --> 00:40:50,025
then, share that knowledge. It's really exciting. I

1111
00:40:50,025 --> 00:40:51,385
was gonna say, Kate Kate, you you you

1112
00:40:51,385 --> 00:40:53,625
got a crash course in housing policy this

1113
00:40:53,625 --> 00:40:54,125
year.

1114
00:40:54,824 --> 00:40:56,844
Yeah. Housing project 2025.

1115
00:40:57,224 --> 00:40:58,364
Go read those blogs.

1116
00:41:00,530 --> 00:41:02,929
Shameless plug there. But, yeah, I just wanted

1117
00:41:02,929 --> 00:41:05,010
to say when I started at CWP, it

1118
00:41:05,010 --> 00:41:07,750
took me the longest time to actually understand

1119
00:41:08,130 --> 00:41:10,690
what CWP does. And I wonder if any

1120
00:41:10,690 --> 00:41:11,989
listeners of this podcast

1121
00:41:12,515 --> 00:41:13,974
are having the same question.

1122
00:41:14,914 --> 00:41:16,755
And I think, Erin, maybe you said this

1123
00:41:16,755 --> 00:41:17,394
to me,

1124
00:41:17,875 --> 00:41:19,474
was so helpful, but I think that you

1125
00:41:19,474 --> 00:41:21,555
said that we do PR for public lands,

1126
00:41:21,555 --> 00:41:23,735
and that really has stuck in my head.

1127
00:41:24,035 --> 00:41:26,434
And, yeah, if anybody's wondering what we do,

1128
00:41:26,434 --> 00:41:28,690
that's that's the shorthand. That's the elevator pitch.

1129
00:41:28,690 --> 00:41:31,090
That is definitely the, yeah, the the forward

1130
00:41:31,090 --> 00:41:33,650
pitch. And and I I think beyond that,

1131
00:41:33,650 --> 00:41:35,250
you know, we why is it so hard

1132
00:41:35,250 --> 00:41:37,250
to pin down what we do? Well, we

1133
00:41:37,250 --> 00:41:39,269
do whatever needs to get done today,

1134
00:41:40,289 --> 00:41:41,670
and it is really

1135
00:41:42,305 --> 00:41:45,105
fun for me being at an organization where

1136
00:41:45,105 --> 00:41:45,605
our

1137
00:41:45,985 --> 00:41:46,485
mandate

1138
00:41:47,184 --> 00:41:48,244
is broad enough

1139
00:41:48,545 --> 00:41:50,305
that we can do that to recognize, well,

1140
00:41:50,305 --> 00:41:51,664
this is what needs to get done today

1141
00:41:51,664 --> 00:41:53,364
even if we haven't done it before.

1142
00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:55,760
I would add to it too. I came

1143
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:56,260
from

1144
00:41:56,559 --> 00:41:58,960
working in DC for 8 years on Capitol

1145
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,900
Hill and at the interior department,

1146
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,880
and it took me a little while to

1147
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,119
appreciate what we are able to do and

1148
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:07,300
say in the nonprofit sector

1149
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,780
that is really hard to say

1150
00:42:10,454 --> 00:42:12,614
if you work at a government agency. You

1151
00:42:12,614 --> 00:42:14,535
know, the trick there is like, how do

1152
00:42:14,535 --> 00:42:16,454
you toot your own horn without blowing it?

1153
00:42:16,454 --> 00:42:17,515
And so sometimes,

1154
00:42:17,974 --> 00:42:18,695
we can,

1155
00:42:19,015 --> 00:42:20,635
be more direct and say,

1156
00:42:21,015 --> 00:42:21,515
look,

1157
00:42:21,894 --> 00:42:24,219
budgets are, you know, this there's a reason

1158
00:42:24,219 --> 00:42:26,539
why some of these things are really difficult,

1159
00:42:26,940 --> 00:42:28,880
that it's just awkward to say when your

1160
00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:30,799
work is funded by US taxpayers.

1161
00:42:31,339 --> 00:42:33,099
So it's it it took me a while

1162
00:42:33,099 --> 00:42:35,119
to let go of some of my rigidness

1163
00:42:35,465 --> 00:42:36,364
and my acronyms

1164
00:42:37,465 --> 00:42:39,304
and and the way I talked about these

1165
00:42:39,304 --> 00:42:41,324
issues that was so steeped

1166
00:42:42,264 --> 00:42:43,005
in government

1167
00:42:43,385 --> 00:42:45,625
thinking and speak to realize, oh my gosh,

1168
00:42:45,625 --> 00:42:47,304
I get to stretch my wings. We get

1169
00:42:47,304 --> 00:42:49,150
to we get to talk about this and

1170
00:42:49,150 --> 00:42:51,570
think of this in a more comprehensive way.

1171
00:42:52,429 --> 00:42:55,650
So I wanna turn this to to Lauren,

1172
00:42:56,510 --> 00:42:58,989
Jen, Erin, folks that have been working in

1173
00:42:58,989 --> 00:42:59,489
conservation

1174
00:42:59,869 --> 00:43:01,090
for a long time,

1175
00:43:02,074 --> 00:43:04,875
on at the federal level, what has changed

1176
00:43:04,875 --> 00:43:07,434
since you started in this space, and and

1177
00:43:07,434 --> 00:43:09,194
where do you think we're going? So I'll

1178
00:43:09,194 --> 00:43:10,174
jump in here.

1179
00:43:10,474 --> 00:43:12,234
I think it's fair to say that there's

1180
00:43:12,234 --> 00:43:15,609
a long overdue reckoning in terms of the

1181
00:43:15,609 --> 00:43:16,269
initial displacement

1182
00:43:17,130 --> 00:43:19,769
of indigenous people that led to some of

1183
00:43:19,769 --> 00:43:23,369
these treasured public lands, national parks, refuges, places

1184
00:43:23,369 --> 00:43:26,190
that we all love and enjoy and consider

1185
00:43:26,409 --> 00:43:28,589
one of America's best ideas. So

1186
00:43:28,969 --> 00:43:29,710
just within

1187
00:43:30,355 --> 00:43:32,594
the last several years, I think there's a

1188
00:43:32,594 --> 00:43:33,094
much

1189
00:43:33,635 --> 00:43:34,135
stronger

1190
00:43:34,594 --> 00:43:37,315
chorus of of saying, hey, we need to

1191
00:43:37,315 --> 00:43:39,635
look at this and see what was lost

1192
00:43:39,635 --> 00:43:42,914
by removing people from a landscape whose knowledge

1193
00:43:42,914 --> 00:43:45,760
of those places goes back millennia. Not only

1194
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,539
that, a spiritual and a cultural

1195
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:50,159
connection. And it's only within the last couple

1196
00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:51,779
years that I think we're seeing,

1197
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,400
the rubber meet the road in terms of

1198
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,960
how can you do co management and co

1199
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:57,460
stewardship

1200
00:43:58,159 --> 00:43:59,380
of some of these landscapes.

1201
00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:00,179
And

1202
00:44:00,695 --> 00:44:03,114
and it matters to have people in leadership

1203
00:44:03,255 --> 00:44:06,295
positions like secretary Deb Haaland and National Park

1204
00:44:06,295 --> 00:44:07,195
Service Director

1205
00:44:07,574 --> 00:44:10,235
Chuck Sams who have a different lived experience

1206
00:44:10,295 --> 00:44:12,135
and bring that to these positions. So I

1207
00:44:12,135 --> 00:44:14,429
would say that's one of the biggest things.

1208
00:44:14,730 --> 00:44:17,369
Another issue that is only going to be

1209
00:44:17,369 --> 00:44:19,710
more important over time is overcrowding

1210
00:44:20,010 --> 00:44:21,550
of some of these crown jewels.

1211
00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:22,510
There's,

1212
00:44:22,809 --> 00:44:25,684
I think, 60 some national parks and most

1213
00:44:25,684 --> 00:44:27,065
of the visitation is

1214
00:44:27,364 --> 00:44:28,824
concentrated and probably

1215
00:44:29,364 --> 00:44:31,284
8 to 10. So looking at,

1216
00:44:32,085 --> 00:44:33,945
do we need more public lands

1217
00:44:34,405 --> 00:44:37,304
and safe equitable outdoor access and also dispersing

1218
00:44:37,445 --> 00:44:40,039
that and taking care of of these places

1219
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:41,340
that we all love and enjoy.

1220
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,659
Yeah. And I would say,

1221
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,280
just teeing off what Lauren said, we've really

1222
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:48,780
seen,

1223
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,019
especially under the Biden administration,

1224
00:44:52,434 --> 00:44:54,614
public lands have been a priority.

1225
00:44:55,315 --> 00:44:58,275
Conserving 30% of lands and waters have been

1226
00:44:58,275 --> 00:45:00,275
a priority in a president's 1st term, and

1227
00:45:00,275 --> 00:45:01,094
that's unprecedented.

1228
00:45:01,714 --> 00:45:03,414
We didn't see that under Obama.

1229
00:45:04,030 --> 00:45:06,349
He prioritized public lands, but not until his

1230
00:45:06,349 --> 00:45:07,090
2nd term.

1231
00:45:07,470 --> 00:45:09,730
And then under the Trump administration,

1232
00:45:10,349 --> 00:45:12,190
there was an all out assault on public

1233
00:45:12,190 --> 00:45:13,090
lands. And so

1234
00:45:13,390 --> 00:45:13,890
conservation

1235
00:45:14,269 --> 00:45:16,190
over the last 10 years has just become

1236
00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:17,809
a much more important issue

1237
00:45:20,965 --> 00:45:23,224
for administrations, for members of Congress.

1238
00:45:23,844 --> 00:45:26,724
And that's been that's been, you know, great

1239
00:45:26,724 --> 00:45:29,765
to see from our perspective as a PR

1240
00:45:29,765 --> 00:45:31,785
firm for public lands. Right?

1241
00:45:32,164 --> 00:45:34,420
Well, and I think when you look back

1242
00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:35,400
when I started

1243
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:36,200
2015,

1244
00:45:36,579 --> 00:45:38,119
2016, the amount of

1245
00:45:38,420 --> 00:45:41,539
work we were doing around anti public lands

1246
00:45:41,539 --> 00:45:42,039
extremism

1247
00:45:42,820 --> 00:45:43,559
that had

1248
00:45:44,019 --> 00:45:45,160
seeped its way

1249
00:45:45,644 --> 00:45:47,965
into, in one case, a a full party

1250
00:45:47,965 --> 00:45:48,465
platform,

1251
00:45:49,085 --> 00:45:52,385
there was a significant movement pushing to dispose

1252
00:45:52,684 --> 00:45:54,224
of national public lands

1253
00:45:54,605 --> 00:45:55,905
on the wholesale level.

1254
00:45:56,445 --> 00:45:58,844
You saw folks going around with the map

1255
00:45:58,844 --> 00:46:01,839
showing the east versus the west claiming that

1256
00:46:01,859 --> 00:46:03,699
the the amount of public lands in the

1257
00:46:03,699 --> 00:46:06,440
west were proof that there were too many

1258
00:46:06,579 --> 00:46:07,859
and that we need to get rid of

1259
00:46:07,859 --> 00:46:09,480
them, and that position

1260
00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:12,199
has become a political third rail

1261
00:46:12,659 --> 00:46:15,594
across the political spectrum. And there are certainly

1262
00:46:15,594 --> 00:46:18,894
still folks out there arguing for wholesale disposal,

1263
00:46:19,195 --> 00:46:20,815
but now they have to couch it,

1264
00:46:21,195 --> 00:46:24,394
like we saw governor Lombardo from Nevada doing,

1265
00:46:24,394 --> 00:46:25,454
couching the language

1266
00:46:25,914 --> 00:46:27,594
of of housing, and that's why we need

1267
00:46:27,594 --> 00:46:29,195
to get rid of 50,000 acres at a

1268
00:46:29,195 --> 00:46:31,409
time because they know they can't just say,

1269
00:46:31,409 --> 00:46:32,609
oh, we just need to get rid of

1270
00:46:32,609 --> 00:46:33,109
it.

1271
00:46:34,849 --> 00:46:36,849
That's been a shift, and and I think

1272
00:46:36,849 --> 00:46:38,069
not one that was

1273
00:46:38,449 --> 00:46:38,949
guaranteed

1274
00:46:39,409 --> 00:46:41,589
when you when you look back a decade

1275
00:46:41,650 --> 00:46:42,630
at where that

1276
00:46:43,265 --> 00:46:46,164
Bundy style sagebrush rebellion was at.

1277
00:46:46,785 --> 00:46:48,545
And, you know, thanks to a number of

1278
00:46:48,545 --> 00:46:49,364
things, including,

1279
00:46:49,664 --> 00:46:51,204
St Luke's Hospital in Boise.

1280
00:46:51,905 --> 00:46:54,625
Ammon Bundy is, of course, now sidelined and

1281
00:46:54,625 --> 00:46:55,445
more or less

1282
00:46:55,905 --> 00:46:58,219
in hiding, but his movement is

1283
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,000
has been sidelined and and forced to try

1284
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,219
to find other ways

1285
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:06,460
to argue for what what they want because

1286
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,400
the actual just straight up, let's be honest

1287
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,984
that you don't like National Public Lands, It's

1288
00:47:11,984 --> 00:47:15,364
politically toxic now. And I I I'm really

1289
00:47:16,065 --> 00:47:18,545
happy and, I think proud of the role

1290
00:47:18,545 --> 00:47:20,804
we played in getting the country there.

1291
00:47:21,664 --> 00:47:24,005
So let's wrap this up by turning towards

1292
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,019
the podcast.

1293
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,280
This is our 200th episode. Erin, you started

1294
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,599
the podcast almost 8 years ago, which is

1295
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:31,420
just crazy

1296
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:33,260
to even think about.

1297
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:36,220
And I'd love to talk about the

1298
00:47:36,625 --> 00:47:38,385
past of the podcast and the future of

1299
00:47:38,385 --> 00:47:39,825
it as well. So, Aaron, why don't you

1300
00:47:39,825 --> 00:47:40,965
talk about the

1301
00:47:41,344 --> 00:47:42,565
the the very beginning?

1302
00:47:43,344 --> 00:47:44,785
Yeah. I mean, I think it's important to

1303
00:47:44,785 --> 00:47:47,184
note that this podcast, the the landscape started

1304
00:47:47,184 --> 00:47:48,244
with a different name.

1305
00:47:49,105 --> 00:47:50,565
And that that name,

1306
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:53,750
Go West Young Podcast, was something that we

1307
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:55,050
saw at the time as

1308
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:57,190
a bit of a clever play on words,

1309
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:57,690
and

1310
00:47:58,150 --> 00:48:00,789
it reflected, I think, certainly a blind spot

1311
00:48:00,789 --> 00:48:01,909
on my part,

1312
00:48:02,230 --> 00:48:04,409
and and the organization overall

1313
00:48:04,949 --> 00:48:05,449
that

1314
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:07,130
while that was

1315
00:48:07,724 --> 00:48:09,325
may have seemed like a play on words

1316
00:48:09,325 --> 00:48:10,704
to us, it was also,

1317
00:48:11,565 --> 00:48:14,465
in some ways making light of manifest destiny

1318
00:48:15,085 --> 00:48:15,565
and,

1319
00:48:17,325 --> 00:48:19,805
the process by which we recognized, especially in

1320
00:48:19,805 --> 00:48:21,644
2020, we needed to change the name of

1321
00:48:21,644 --> 00:48:22,385
this podcast,

1322
00:48:23,409 --> 00:48:23,909
was

1323
00:48:24,769 --> 00:48:26,769
a really good one for me. I I

1324
00:48:26,769 --> 00:48:28,070
wanted to go back and

1325
00:48:28,690 --> 00:48:30,449
listen to that because we did do an

1326
00:48:30,449 --> 00:48:33,170
episode on, hey. Here's why we are now

1327
00:48:33,170 --> 00:48:34,789
calling this podcast The Landscape.

1328
00:48:41,835 --> 00:48:44,074
4 years ago, we started this little podcast

1329
00:48:44,074 --> 00:48:46,715
about the outdoors in America's public lands, and

1330
00:48:46,715 --> 00:48:49,434
now 90 episodes later, we are changing things

1331
00:48:49,434 --> 00:48:51,900
up. Welcome to the landscape from the Center

1332
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:52,960
For Western Priorities.

1333
00:48:53,260 --> 00:48:55,579
I'm Erin Weiss. And today, we are saying

1334
00:48:55,579 --> 00:48:57,500
goodbye to the name Go West to Young

1335
00:48:57,500 --> 00:48:58,000
podcast.

1336
00:48:58,380 --> 00:49:00,539
We will explore why in an interview with

1337
00:49:00,539 --> 00:49:03,119
2 historians, Patty Limerick and Philip Deloria,

1338
00:49:03,594 --> 00:49:05,775
about the legacy of manifest destiny.

1339
00:49:06,875 --> 00:49:07,375
So,

1340
00:49:07,675 --> 00:49:09,914
yeah, I mean, Jen, you went through that

1341
00:49:09,914 --> 00:49:10,414
process

1342
00:49:10,795 --> 00:49:11,535
with us.

1343
00:49:12,795 --> 00:49:14,555
It it was a I think it was

1344
00:49:14,555 --> 00:49:16,635
a really important process for us to go

1345
00:49:16,635 --> 00:49:17,614
through, and

1346
00:49:18,050 --> 00:49:19,909
I think it was very thoughtful. And

1347
00:49:20,289 --> 00:49:22,150
the conversation with the 2 historians,

1348
00:49:22,449 --> 00:49:23,109
I thought,

1349
00:49:23,409 --> 00:49:24,630
just really helped

1350
00:49:25,730 --> 00:49:28,609
us and our listeners understand why why we

1351
00:49:28,609 --> 00:49:30,949
needed to change the name. And the landscape

1352
00:49:31,250 --> 00:49:32,710
in a lot of ways is

1353
00:49:33,594 --> 00:49:34,894
a broader, more

1354
00:49:35,594 --> 00:49:38,074
inclusive name for the podcast, and I'm really

1355
00:49:38,074 --> 00:49:39,675
proud of the work that we did to

1356
00:49:39,675 --> 00:49:40,815
to make that change.

1357
00:49:41,675 --> 00:49:43,195
Tell correct me if this is wrong, Yaron,

1358
00:49:43,195 --> 00:49:44,635
but I feel like the the pace at

1359
00:49:44,635 --> 00:49:47,375
which we are publishing episodes maybe has increased.

1360
00:49:48,380 --> 00:49:50,539
It has 100%, and you are entirely to

1361
00:49:50,539 --> 00:49:51,360
thank for that.

1362
00:49:52,780 --> 00:49:56,219
Yeah. Apologies to everyone who has episodes stacking

1363
00:49:56,219 --> 00:49:58,300
up in their feed that they haven't gotten

1364
00:49:58,300 --> 00:49:59,039
to yet.

1365
00:49:59,739 --> 00:50:02,025
It's become a passion project of mine for

1366
00:50:02,025 --> 00:50:04,045
sure, and I love trying to balance

1367
00:50:04,505 --> 00:50:06,264
the types of guests that we're getting,

1368
00:50:06,585 --> 00:50:09,005
everywhere for from background to,

1369
00:50:09,864 --> 00:50:10,844
you know, ethnicity

1370
00:50:11,144 --> 00:50:11,644
to,

1371
00:50:12,905 --> 00:50:14,844
whether it's an author or a politician.

1372
00:50:15,304 --> 00:50:17,320
It's been fun to try to just,

1373
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:20,920
make sure that there's a a healthy, interesting

1374
00:50:20,980 --> 00:50:23,000
mix of people coming on.

1375
00:50:23,539 --> 00:50:24,039
And,

1376
00:50:24,820 --> 00:50:27,000
on that note, I'm I'm really excited,

1377
00:50:28,179 --> 00:50:32,025
to do more podcasts with folks that have

1378
00:50:32,025 --> 00:50:34,985
audiences on social media, that we can sort

1379
00:50:34,985 --> 00:50:35,724
of co

1380
00:50:36,184 --> 00:50:38,425
post, the episode about. Because I think that's

1381
00:50:38,425 --> 00:50:39,785
a great way we can bring in new

1382
00:50:39,785 --> 00:50:40,985
listeners and,

1383
00:50:41,809 --> 00:50:44,550
also expose our listeners to organizations

1384
00:50:45,010 --> 00:50:48,369
and and influencers and groups like, the disabled

1385
00:50:48,369 --> 00:50:50,789
hikers, which we just had an episode from,

1386
00:50:50,929 --> 00:50:52,530
that they may not have found otherwise. So

1387
00:50:52,530 --> 00:50:54,369
I'm excited to to do more of that

1388
00:50:54,369 --> 00:50:57,054
and just continue growing the audience here. And

1389
00:50:57,054 --> 00:50:59,215
I'm excited to get us back out on

1390
00:50:59,215 --> 00:51:00,675
the road and live

1391
00:51:01,135 --> 00:51:02,434
doing more episodes

1392
00:51:03,215 --> 00:51:04,034
in person,

1393
00:51:04,494 --> 00:51:05,474
whether it's

1394
00:51:05,775 --> 00:51:06,175
out,

1395
00:51:07,054 --> 00:51:07,954
in a farmer's

1396
00:51:08,494 --> 00:51:11,554
rancher's field out in in Steamboat Springs

1397
00:51:12,090 --> 00:51:15,050
or on the trade show floor at outdoor

1398
00:51:15,050 --> 00:51:15,550
retailer

1399
00:51:16,170 --> 00:51:19,390
or at a brewery in Missoula, Montana.

1400
00:51:20,489 --> 00:51:21,390
Those experiences

1401
00:51:21,769 --> 00:51:22,510
have been

1402
00:51:23,050 --> 00:51:25,289
so much fun and I think create better

1403
00:51:25,289 --> 00:51:27,735
conversations. So I I'm excited to to get

1404
00:51:28,454 --> 00:51:30,635
to do more of that with this show.

1405
00:51:31,414 --> 00:51:32,315
Anyone else?

1406
00:51:32,695 --> 00:51:34,135
Yeah. What what do you guys want on

1407
00:51:34,135 --> 00:51:35,994
the podcast? We never ask you that.

1408
00:51:36,454 --> 00:51:38,055
I think, I mean, I think the guests

1409
00:51:38,055 --> 00:51:39,894
that we have have been tremendous. And what

1410
00:51:39,894 --> 00:51:40,795
I really appreciate,

1411
00:51:41,989 --> 00:51:43,589
with Kate and Erin is that you are

1412
00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:46,170
looking for those opportunities to highlight voices

1413
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:48,809
who might not get that amplification

1414
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:49,690
and

1415
00:51:49,989 --> 00:51:52,489
and, the creativity with the interviews.

1416
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:56,295
So I would say just continue more of

1417
00:51:56,295 --> 00:51:57,734
the same. I think there are a lot

1418
00:51:57,734 --> 00:51:59,355
of opportunities out there

1419
00:52:00,215 --> 00:52:02,715
to pursue different angles around public lands.

1420
00:52:03,655 --> 00:52:05,434
Alright. And we'll throw it to our listeners

1421
00:52:05,494 --> 00:52:07,014
too. You guys, you know where to find

1422
00:52:07,014 --> 00:52:08,474
us, podcast at westernpriorities.org.

1423
00:52:09,734 --> 00:52:12,010
So, please, if you're having thoughts right now,

1424
00:52:12,010 --> 00:52:13,849
if you're thinking, oh my gosh. I can't

1425
00:52:13,849 --> 00:52:16,650
believe they didn't mention this, or this podcast

1426
00:52:16,650 --> 00:52:19,530
sucks. They should totally change it. Let us

1427
00:52:19,530 --> 00:52:21,369
know. Or if you really like it, you

1428
00:52:21,369 --> 00:52:23,325
know, it's always good to hear that. So

1429
00:52:23,325 --> 00:52:25,125
with that, I guess we'll wrap up this

1430
00:52:25,125 --> 00:52:27,385
200th episode of the landscape.

1431
00:52:27,765 --> 00:52:29,844
Thank you to our team for doing this.

1432
00:52:29,844 --> 00:52:32,485
We we got you guys in here and

1433
00:52:32,485 --> 00:52:35,219
made you think about your work and put

1434
00:52:35,219 --> 00:52:37,539
on headphones and speak into microphones. So thank

1435
00:52:37,699 --> 00:52:39,800
thanks to everyone for for doing this.

1436
00:52:40,179 --> 00:52:41,800
Thanks. Thank you. Thank you.

1437
00:52:52,405 --> 00:52:54,244
We're skipping good news this week for the

1438
00:52:54,244 --> 00:52:56,005
sake of time, so that means we've reached

1439
00:52:56,005 --> 00:52:58,244
the end of this episode. You can always

1440
00:52:58,244 --> 00:53:00,724
reach us with questions and comments, podcast at

1441
00:53:00,724 --> 00:53:01,224
westernpriorities.org.

1442
00:53:02,780 --> 00:53:04,780
Thanks to team CWP for chatting with us

1443
00:53:04,780 --> 00:53:07,659
today. And as always, thank you for listening

1444
00:53:07,659 --> 00:53:08,480
to the landscape.