1 00:00:07,472 --> 00:00:09,536 Welcome to the landscape. This is your show 2 00:00:09,536 --> 00:00:11,838 about America's parks and public lands. I'm Erin 3 00:00:11,996 --> 00:00:13,980 Weiss with the center for Western priorities in 4 00:00:14,139 --> 00:00:16,460 Denver. And I'm Kate G in Salt Lake 5 00:00:16,539 --> 00:00:16,778 City. 6 00:00:17,494 --> 00:00:19,164 Today on the podcast, we're talking to the 7 00:00:19,164 --> 00:00:21,551 founder of a group called disabled Hike about 8 00:00:21,551 --> 00:00:24,747 what actually makes the outdoors accessible to disabled 9 00:00:24,747 --> 00:00:26,895 people. We're excited to get to that, but 10 00:00:26,895 --> 00:00:27,929 first, let's do some news. 11 00:00:29,058 --> 00:00:31,680 Both of Colorado Us senators are on onboard 12 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,541 with more protections for the Dolores River. We've 13 00:00:34,541 --> 00:00:36,766 talked about that proposal to designate a new 14 00:00:36,766 --> 00:00:39,880 national monument called Dolores Canyon, it would protect 15 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,230 around 400000 16 00:00:41,230 --> 00:00:44,407 acres of land on Colorado West slope. The 17 00:00:44,407 --> 00:00:47,640 proposed monument includes the largest most biodiversity diverse 18 00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:50,246 area of unprotected land in Colorado. 19 00:00:50,779 --> 00:00:53,084 So this joint statement that we saw just 20 00:00:53,084 --> 00:00:55,071 before the fourth of July from senators Michael 21 00:00:55,151 --> 00:00:58,268 Bennett and John Hi, area It stopped just 22 00:00:58,268 --> 00:01:01,452 short of fully endorsing the monument proposal itself, 23 00:01:01,850 --> 00:01:03,761 but it is clear that the sender support 24 00:01:03,761 --> 00:01:06,401 the overall goals. They also said that any 25 00:01:06,401 --> 00:01:09,581 land protections will also need to protect existing 26 00:01:09,581 --> 00:01:12,681 mining, hunting, grazing and water rights, as well 27 00:01:12,681 --> 00:01:16,290 as recreation opportunities like Mountain biking and off 28 00:01:16,290 --> 00:01:19,326 road access like the Rim rocker trail. Now 29 00:01:19,326 --> 00:01:21,651 all of that, is in line with what 30 00:01:21,651 --> 00:01:23,798 monument supporters have been calling for. 31 00:01:24,434 --> 00:01:27,456 Both senators have held meetings with locals around 32 00:01:27,456 --> 00:01:29,762 the proposed monument to get feedback on the 33 00:01:29,762 --> 00:01:30,215 proposal 34 00:01:30,652 --> 00:01:33,460 And this statement is that first official signal 35 00:01:33,597 --> 00:01:36,621 that they both support increasing protections for the 36 00:01:36,621 --> 00:01:39,247 area, the question now is how to do 37 00:01:39,247 --> 00:01:39,406 it. 38 00:01:42,676 --> 00:01:45,296 Our guest today is Cy No. They are 39 00:01:45,296 --> 00:01:47,614 the founder and director of disabled hike. A 40 00:01:47,614 --> 00:01:49,854 non profit group seeking to make the outdoors 41 00:01:49,854 --> 00:01:51,935 more accessible for people with disabilities. 42 00:01:52,575 --> 00:01:54,094 Siren, Thank you so much for being here. 43 00:01:54,894 --> 00:01:56,183 It's Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. 44 00:01:56,980 --> 00:01:59,129 So let's start with the beginning. You you 45 00:01:59,129 --> 00:02:01,199 started disabled hike in 20 18. 46 00:02:01,916 --> 00:02:02,632 What brought that about? 47 00:02:03,764 --> 00:02:05,922 Yeah. So I grew up with multiple disabilities 48 00:02:05,922 --> 00:02:08,080 and chronic illnesses, and it took me a 49 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,397 really long time to kinda get into hiking 50 00:02:10,397 --> 00:02:11,916 and figure out that was something that I 51 00:02:11,916 --> 00:02:13,090 wanted to do and 52 00:02:14,086 --> 00:02:16,578 you know, of course, I encountered lots of 53 00:02:16,636 --> 00:02:19,346 obstacles and barriers and lack of understanding and 54 00:02:19,346 --> 00:02:21,121 all of that along the way. So 55 00:02:21,670 --> 00:02:23,574 in 20 18, it all kind of came 56 00:02:23,574 --> 00:02:25,002 to a head when I was 57 00:02:25,557 --> 00:02:28,199 had done, you know, all this research about 58 00:02:28,428 --> 00:02:30,497 kind of this 1 section of a trial 59 00:02:30,497 --> 00:02:32,724 system. I done other portions of the trail 60 00:02:32,724 --> 00:02:34,951 system booked 4, but not this particular section, 61 00:02:35,685 --> 00:02:38,884 and went there expecting it to be accessible 62 00:02:38,884 --> 00:02:41,544 for me and immediately encountered 63 00:02:42,084 --> 00:02:44,900 lots of obstacles and barriers that I didn't 64 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:46,500 find in my research that put me in 65 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:47,319 a really dangerous 66 00:02:47,699 --> 00:02:50,180 situation. So there's things like, you know, Steep 67 00:02:50,180 --> 00:02:53,545 stairs and rocky drop offs and covered slopes 68 00:02:53,545 --> 00:02:54,259 and all of that. 69 00:02:55,290 --> 00:02:56,560 And it, you know, again, put me in 70 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,654 a really difficult and dangerous situation and kinda 71 00:02:59,654 --> 00:03:00,368 at the end of that, 72 00:03:01,256 --> 00:03:02,367 I just said, you know, I'm gonna do 73 00:03:02,367 --> 00:03:04,985 something about this, And I went home and 74 00:03:04,985 --> 00:03:07,365 wrote up a blog post about it and, 75 00:03:07,603 --> 00:03:09,190 you know, put up website and called it... 76 00:03:09,364 --> 00:03:11,271 Sa hike and we were born from there. 77 00:03:11,906 --> 00:03:14,926 Classic necessity is the mother of invention story. 78 00:03:16,769 --> 00:03:18,518 So what does hiking look like for you 79 00:03:18,518 --> 00:03:20,108 these days and what kind of hikes are 80 00:03:20,108 --> 00:03:22,096 accessible for you and what kind do you 81 00:03:22,096 --> 00:03:22,334 enjoy? 82 00:03:23,288 --> 00:03:25,617 Yeah. So, you know, for me, I really 83 00:03:25,753 --> 00:03:27,921 enjoy. You know, kinda what is becoming more 84 00:03:27,921 --> 00:03:29,758 popularized as slow hiking. 85 00:03:30,636 --> 00:03:32,472 Really, that's just, like, accessible hiking. 86 00:03:33,350 --> 00:03:35,426 So, you know, for me, like, just going 87 00:03:35,426 --> 00:03:38,067 out on a, you fairly gentle, like, 2, 88 00:03:38,305 --> 00:03:39,656 3 mile hike, 89 00:03:40,213 --> 00:03:42,199 and just really taking my time and enjoying 90 00:03:42,199 --> 00:03:44,663 the experience is what I really love to 91 00:03:44,663 --> 00:03:44,822 do. 92 00:03:45,712 --> 00:03:48,177 You know, I'm not out there, like, climbing 93 00:03:48,177 --> 00:03:50,666 mountains or a quote unquote conquering the wilderness 94 00:03:50,802 --> 00:03:53,367 or anything like that. That's... Not my jam. 95 00:03:53,606 --> 00:03:56,819 So... But just, you, having slow, respectful, 96 00:03:57,676 --> 00:03:59,750 immersive experiences is really important to me. 97 00:04:01,674 --> 00:04:03,502 Since 20 18, you've you've really... 98 00:04:04,932 --> 00:04:06,362 I was gonna say carved out a niche, 99 00:04:06,601 --> 00:04:09,158 but it's I... Broader than that. You've put 100 00:04:09,158 --> 00:04:11,383 on events you've written trail guides, 101 00:04:12,734 --> 00:04:13,234 books 102 00:04:14,085 --> 00:04:15,614 that you've you've offered just tell us about 103 00:04:15,614 --> 00:04:18,334 the growth of disabled hike and some of 104 00:04:18,334 --> 00:04:20,334 the resources that you've been able to put 105 00:04:20,334 --> 00:04:21,694 together here in the last 6 years. 106 00:04:22,495 --> 00:04:25,546 But Yeah. It has grown really much faster 107 00:04:25,546 --> 00:04:28,343 than I ever anticipated, which is exciting and 108 00:04:28,343 --> 00:04:28,822 challenging. 109 00:04:29,941 --> 00:04:32,348 So, you know, we after the website, you 110 00:04:32,348 --> 00:04:34,178 know, we started with the social media, and 111 00:04:34,178 --> 00:04:36,087 our community really grew from there. We found 112 00:04:36,087 --> 00:04:38,489 a lot of people online who were... You 113 00:04:38,489 --> 00:04:40,961 know, disabled and wanted to access the outdoors, 114 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,114 but didn't know how didn't have community. 115 00:04:44,071 --> 00:04:46,941 So we started having more conversations with people 116 00:04:46,941 --> 00:04:47,340 through that, 117 00:04:47,993 --> 00:04:48,493 And 118 00:04:49,029 --> 00:04:50,008 then I started 119 00:04:50,704 --> 00:04:52,856 writing more trial guides. I developed the spoon 120 00:04:52,856 --> 00:04:56,306 rating system and started writing online guides and 121 00:04:57,173 --> 00:04:59,793 I'm the author of 2 hiking guide books 122 00:04:59,793 --> 00:05:00,111 now. 123 00:05:00,746 --> 00:05:01,143 And, 124 00:05:01,937 --> 00:05:03,921 from there, we also started doing events, 125 00:05:04,557 --> 00:05:05,112 where we do, 126 00:05:06,003 --> 00:05:08,953 entirely disabled led, disability community only, 127 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:12,302 hiking events, picnic, things like that to get 128 00:05:12,302 --> 00:05:14,056 the community get together outdoors, 129 00:05:14,708 --> 00:05:16,689 and really just, you know, explore what it 130 00:05:16,689 --> 00:05:19,225 means to be disabled in the outdoors, What 131 00:05:19,225 --> 00:05:22,253 accessibility looks like, what does accessibility mean when 132 00:05:22,253 --> 00:05:24,636 you're with a group of cross disabled folks 133 00:05:24,636 --> 00:05:26,543 with people with a variety of access needs. 134 00:05:27,020 --> 00:05:29,324 And so just really exploring that, has been 135 00:05:29,324 --> 00:05:31,484 really meaningful. And then We do a lot 136 00:05:31,484 --> 00:05:34,663 of work with, like, parks and organizations and 137 00:05:34,663 --> 00:05:38,000 and brands around access and inclusion, doing training, 138 00:05:38,158 --> 00:05:39,033 doing consulting. 139 00:05:40,164 --> 00:05:42,485 Commenting, you know, on legislation and things like 140 00:05:42,485 --> 00:05:44,724 that. So we're really doing a lot of 141 00:05:44,724 --> 00:05:47,204 different kinds of work, but it's all very 142 00:05:47,204 --> 00:05:48,564 grounded in the community, 143 00:05:49,220 --> 00:05:52,180 we are entirely disabled led. Everyone in the 144 00:05:52,180 --> 00:05:54,579 organization has a disability or chronic illness or 145 00:05:54,579 --> 00:05:55,240 is neuro, 146 00:05:55,540 --> 00:05:56,660 and that's really important to us. 147 00:05:57,632 --> 00:06:00,264 So we really are very much grounded in 148 00:06:00,264 --> 00:06:01,004 our grassroots 149 00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:04,173 community for sure. You mentioned there the spoon 150 00:06:04,173 --> 00:06:04,811 reading system. 151 00:06:05,369 --> 00:06:05,848 What is that? 152 00:06:06,979 --> 00:06:09,557 Yeah. So it's kind of what 153 00:06:09,936 --> 00:06:12,333 some people would consider a difficulty rating system. 154 00:06:13,132 --> 00:06:15,210 So spoon rating is based in... 155 00:06:16,024 --> 00:06:18,968 The spoon theory, which is concept by Christine 156 00:06:19,048 --> 00:06:19,844 Miss Dino, 157 00:06:20,401 --> 00:06:23,028 that kind of... It's a symbol for the 158 00:06:23,028 --> 00:06:25,336 energy rationing, the lot of disabled and chronically 159 00:06:25,336 --> 00:06:26,938 ill piece... Have to do on a daily 160 00:06:26,938 --> 00:06:29,078 basis. So, you know, you start the day 161 00:06:29,078 --> 00:06:31,298 with, like, 10 spoons and every activity you 162 00:06:31,298 --> 00:06:33,280 do requires a certain number of spoons. People 163 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:33,334 we'll 164 00:06:34,252 --> 00:06:36,746 So I wanted to do something that was, 165 00:06:36,884 --> 00:06:38,958 you know, kind of culturally relevant to the 166 00:06:38,958 --> 00:06:41,669 disability chronic illness this community, and also much 167 00:06:41,669 --> 00:06:43,319 more objective and specific 168 00:06:43,838 --> 00:06:44,555 in terms of, 169 00:06:45,272 --> 00:06:47,265 you know, quote of what difficulty rating and 170 00:06:47,265 --> 00:06:50,076 accessibility. So it's on a 1 to 5 171 00:06:50,134 --> 00:06:53,499 scale and each rating is very specific. So, 172 00:06:53,579 --> 00:06:55,016 like, a one's spoon, and it's gonna be, 173 00:06:55,095 --> 00:06:56,292 like, under 2 miles, 174 00:06:56,931 --> 00:06:58,867 flat, paved, no obstacles, 175 00:06:59,659 --> 00:07:02,124 you know, easy to navigate things like that, 176 00:07:02,919 --> 00:07:04,510 and then it goes up from there. So... 177 00:07:05,703 --> 00:07:07,691 So what are some of the biggest challenges 178 00:07:07,691 --> 00:07:08,924 and, and barriers 179 00:07:09,383 --> 00:07:11,381 disabled people face when they are trying to 180 00:07:11,381 --> 00:07:12,740 access nature and go on a hike. 181 00:07:13,619 --> 00:07:15,217 Yeah. 1 of the biggest barriers for sure 182 00:07:15,217 --> 00:07:17,535 is just lack of information and lack of 183 00:07:17,535 --> 00:07:20,172 under standing. You know, so many... There's so 184 00:07:20,172 --> 00:07:22,634 many hiking resources available out there, but they're 185 00:07:22,634 --> 00:07:25,889 all written and provided from the perspective people 186 00:07:25,889 --> 00:07:26,842 who are not disabled, 187 00:07:27,494 --> 00:07:29,910 and they assume that everyone who is hiking 188 00:07:29,968 --> 00:07:31,086 is not disabled. 189 00:07:31,644 --> 00:07:33,901 So, you know, having really good 190 00:07:34,279 --> 00:07:35,715 up to date, clear, 191 00:07:36,527 --> 00:07:38,200 specific information is really important. 192 00:07:39,235 --> 00:07:41,863 And then, of course, you know, having access 193 00:07:41,863 --> 00:07:44,570 to accessible trails and accessible facilities, 194 00:07:45,144 --> 00:07:47,302 is, really lacking it a lot of ways 195 00:07:47,302 --> 00:07:49,779 as well. You know, And it doesn't mean, 196 00:07:49,939 --> 00:07:51,857 like, we don't wanna pave over the wilderness. 197 00:07:52,017 --> 00:07:54,175 Right? Like, we're not interested in creating paved 198 00:07:54,175 --> 00:07:56,581 trails every wear. But, you know, making them 199 00:07:56,581 --> 00:07:59,447 so that they are, you know, more easy 200 00:07:59,447 --> 00:08:02,473 to navigate using a variety of mobility equipment 201 00:08:02,473 --> 00:08:03,165 and aids where 202 00:08:04,157 --> 00:08:05,848 providing benches, restrooms, 203 00:08:06,380 --> 00:08:08,047 all of those kind of amenities that help 204 00:08:08,047 --> 00:08:09,317 make space more accessible. 205 00:08:10,111 --> 00:08:12,175 And then also just access to equipment, 206 00:08:12,907 --> 00:08:14,283 you know, things like 207 00:08:15,296 --> 00:08:18,163 even just basic wheelchairs can be really difficult 208 00:08:18,163 --> 00:08:20,711 for allotted disabled folks to have access to. 209 00:08:21,443 --> 00:08:22,719 And then when you start looking at things 210 00:08:22,719 --> 00:08:25,431 like all terrain wheelchairs, they are incredibly expensive. 211 00:08:25,989 --> 00:08:28,541 So, you know, having more parks and things 212 00:08:28,541 --> 00:08:30,296 like that offering those to the community. 213 00:08:31,821 --> 00:08:34,678 You mentioned not... It's not about paving trails, 214 00:08:34,757 --> 00:08:37,217 but these other accessibility. Can you describe some 215 00:08:37,217 --> 00:08:39,280 more of of what that looks like from 216 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:40,914 a a trail construction 217 00:08:41,534 --> 00:08:42,014 standpoint. 218 00:08:42,414 --> 00:08:42,815 Mh. 219 00:08:43,375 --> 00:08:45,214 Yeah. So there's, of course, there's a variety 220 00:08:45,214 --> 00:08:47,695 of accessibility guidelines that are out there depending 221 00:08:47,695 --> 00:08:50,103 on, you know, which land manager you're looking 222 00:08:50,103 --> 00:08:50,342 at. 223 00:08:50,979 --> 00:08:52,492 They all kinda have their own sets of 224 00:08:52,492 --> 00:08:55,677 guidelines. But in general, you know, having things 225 00:08:55,677 --> 00:08:56,871 that are flat, 226 00:08:57,921 --> 00:09:00,152 more or less flat, very very limited, 227 00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:01,847 very minimal grades 228 00:09:02,224 --> 00:09:04,295 with a very firm and stable surface, 229 00:09:05,105 --> 00:09:07,566 so whether that's, you know, a natural surface 230 00:09:07,566 --> 00:09:09,630 or putting down, you know, hard packed peak 231 00:09:09,630 --> 00:09:10,980 gravel or something like that, 232 00:09:11,933 --> 00:09:13,441 having places to rest. 233 00:09:14,571 --> 00:09:17,920 Benches, you know, even, like, nice log benches, 234 00:09:18,079 --> 00:09:20,073 you know, things like that for people to 235 00:09:20,073 --> 00:09:20,551 have a 236 00:09:21,109 --> 00:09:22,956 you know, place to take a break, And 237 00:09:22,956 --> 00:09:26,214 then having it be somewhere that people want 238 00:09:26,214 --> 00:09:28,041 to go. Right? I think so often and 239 00:09:28,041 --> 00:09:29,869 people put in an accessible trail, and it's 240 00:09:29,869 --> 00:09:32,511 like, oh, here's you're like, few hundred yards, 241 00:09:32,670 --> 00:09:34,366 it ends at, like, nothing 242 00:09:34,824 --> 00:09:36,658 and there you go, and that's kind of 243 00:09:36,658 --> 00:09:36,738 it. 244 00:09:37,695 --> 00:09:39,848 So really designing the trails in a in 245 00:09:39,848 --> 00:09:40,885 a accessible way, 246 00:09:42,014 --> 00:09:44,320 to be a really meaningful experience. Of course, 247 00:09:44,717 --> 00:09:46,012 that also benefits 248 00:09:46,625 --> 00:09:49,740 the non disabled community as well because having 249 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:53,000 well designed, maintained trails reduces the impact on 250 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,510 the surrounding environment. So... 251 00:09:56,020 --> 00:09:58,899 Sir, what? Tips do you have for disabled 252 00:09:58,899 --> 00:10:01,310 people who wanna get outside And what resources 253 00:10:01,367 --> 00:10:03,516 from your organization? Would you recommend to somebody 254 00:10:03,516 --> 00:10:05,745 who's maybe just finding out about this? 255 00:10:07,035 --> 00:10:08,955 Yeah. I think 1 of my biggest tips 256 00:10:08,955 --> 00:10:10,554 that I tell people is just... 257 00:10:11,754 --> 00:10:13,595 It's more of an internal thing. Right? It's 258 00:10:13,595 --> 00:10:16,236 letting go of... All of those narratives that 259 00:10:16,236 --> 00:10:18,535 we have about who is a quote unquote 260 00:10:18,535 --> 00:10:21,388 real hike and what being outdoors means and 261 00:10:21,388 --> 00:10:21,864 looks like. 262 00:10:22,835 --> 00:10:24,434 You know, like I said earlier, it doesn't 263 00:10:24,434 --> 00:10:25,475 mean climbing a mountain. 264 00:10:26,274 --> 00:10:28,355 It can mean as simple as going out 265 00:10:28,355 --> 00:10:30,524 and sitting on your porch. Or sitting on 266 00:10:30,524 --> 00:10:32,432 a park bench and looking at the birds, 267 00:10:32,670 --> 00:10:33,544 looking at the trees. 268 00:10:34,498 --> 00:10:36,644 That is a perfectly valid way of being 269 00:10:36,644 --> 00:10:36,962 outdoors, 270 00:10:37,614 --> 00:10:40,907 and, you know, any any way that you 271 00:10:40,965 --> 00:10:42,960 are in the outdoors is valid. 272 00:10:43,518 --> 00:10:46,410 So if that's, you, hiking a short trail 273 00:10:46,410 --> 00:10:48,570 and taking a break, bringing a chair with 274 00:10:48,570 --> 00:10:50,730 you and and resting on that trail, that's 275 00:10:50,730 --> 00:10:51,049 valid. 276 00:10:52,090 --> 00:10:54,190 You know, I really say, like, if you 277 00:10:54,744 --> 00:10:57,217 are moving some way in the outdoors and 278 00:10:57,217 --> 00:10:59,132 wanna call yourself a hike, then you are 279 00:10:59,132 --> 00:11:00,648 a hike. That's all there is to it. 280 00:11:02,178 --> 00:11:04,006 And then in terms of resources, you know, 281 00:11:04,245 --> 00:11:07,424 for sure, there's our social media is big 282 00:11:07,424 --> 00:11:09,173 re resource, great way to connect with people. 283 00:11:09,411 --> 00:11:11,001 We're on Instagram and Facebook. 284 00:11:11,494 --> 00:11:12,690 Else also have a Facebook group. 285 00:11:14,284 --> 00:11:16,198 And then the website has, 286 00:11:16,756 --> 00:11:18,670 some trail guides on there. 287 00:11:19,308 --> 00:11:22,190 Right now, we've... Primarily have been working throughout 288 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:24,976 the Pacific Northwest. So, like, Western Washington, Western 289 00:11:25,056 --> 00:11:25,454 Oregon, 290 00:11:26,887 --> 00:11:28,970 and then that was my first book, My 291 00:11:28,970 --> 00:11:30,871 second book is coming out for Northern California 292 00:11:30,871 --> 00:11:33,010 and in September. So there's a lot of 293 00:11:33,010 --> 00:11:33,510 resources 294 00:11:34,199 --> 00:11:35,229 for that area there. 295 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:37,712 But then on the website, there's also resources 296 00:11:37,712 --> 00:11:38,987 that I, kinda give you an idea of 297 00:11:38,987 --> 00:11:40,980 how to look for accessible trails, What kind 298 00:11:40,980 --> 00:11:43,371 of information to look for, And then you 299 00:11:43,371 --> 00:11:46,085 can... You know, research land manager websites, 300 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,418 other trail apps, like all trails, things like 301 00:11:49,418 --> 00:11:51,577 that to kinda get an idea, of where 302 00:11:51,577 --> 00:11:54,044 you can go. And then, you know, really 303 00:11:54,044 --> 00:11:56,591 just try, you know, go out there and 304 00:11:56,591 --> 00:11:59,154 and try it within your comfort zone and 305 00:11:59,154 --> 00:12:01,548 figure out, you know, what hiking means to 306 00:12:01,548 --> 00:12:03,064 you and what that looks like and what 307 00:12:03,064 --> 00:12:04,979 is accessible for you. It definitely takes some 308 00:12:04,979 --> 00:12:05,878 trial and error 309 00:12:07,147 --> 00:12:09,374 a couple weeks ago, you and I connected, 310 00:12:09,613 --> 00:12:12,237 thanks to the Salt Lake Tribune story about 311 00:12:12,237 --> 00:12:15,283 a bill that senator Mike Leah had introduced 312 00:12:15,753 --> 00:12:18,807 that would prohibit federal agencies from closing 313 00:12:19,424 --> 00:12:21,897 2 track roads. Basically, the the off road 314 00:12:21,897 --> 00:12:24,621 kinds of roads and Senator Lee, framed that 315 00:12:24,701 --> 00:12:27,168 Bill is being about disability access. He actually 316 00:12:27,168 --> 00:12:28,146 called it the 317 00:12:28,601 --> 00:12:30,671 outdoor Americans with Disabilities Act. 318 00:12:31,724 --> 00:12:32,603 You were, 319 00:12:33,162 --> 00:12:35,021 not nearly as convinced 320 00:12:36,758 --> 00:12:40,369 about the the of Senator Lee's Bill I 321 00:12:40,369 --> 00:12:42,837 mean, what are your thoughts on on the 322 00:12:42,917 --> 00:12:46,602 Oh community in particular here using disability access 323 00:12:46,739 --> 00:12:48,412 as an argument for keeping roads open? 324 00:12:49,781 --> 00:12:51,933 Yeah. I mean, you know, of course, 325 00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:54,803 there's there's lots of disabled folks within the 326 00:12:54,883 --> 00:12:56,875 Oh community who who... 327 00:12:57,769 --> 00:13:00,009 Enjoy that type of activity as a way 328 00:13:00,009 --> 00:13:01,129 for them to be able to get outdoors, 329 00:13:01,289 --> 00:13:02,889 and I don't wanna discount that. You know, 330 00:13:03,049 --> 00:13:05,024 that's, again, that's totally valid. But 331 00:13:05,543 --> 00:13:08,356 for me, it very much feels like using 332 00:13:08,414 --> 00:13:10,191 disability as a pawn in 333 00:13:11,126 --> 00:13:14,077 both to kind of open roads and not 334 00:13:14,077 --> 00:13:16,189 do anything else or accessibility 335 00:13:16,647 --> 00:13:18,964 and also using the community as pawn in 336 00:13:18,964 --> 00:13:20,103 a kind of a larger 337 00:13:20,802 --> 00:13:22,260 scheme, right, around 338 00:13:22,574 --> 00:13:24,989 particularly, like, government over reach and closing 339 00:13:25,367 --> 00:13:27,144 roads and things like that. So 340 00:13:27,842 --> 00:13:30,076 it feels, you know, very dis discontinuous to 341 00:13:30,076 --> 00:13:32,809 me and the act doesn't really do anything 342 00:13:32,809 --> 00:13:36,330 to actually improve accessibility beyond opening roads, and 343 00:13:36,330 --> 00:13:38,009 there's so many more things that could be 344 00:13:38,009 --> 00:13:39,049 done to really improve it. 345 00:13:40,344 --> 00:13:42,338 So let's talk about those. You mentioned earlier 346 00:13:42,338 --> 00:13:44,731 that your group does comment on legislation sometimes. 347 00:13:44,890 --> 00:13:47,442 What are the policy changes and bills that 348 00:13:47,442 --> 00:13:49,197 you'd like to see that would make public 349 00:13:49,197 --> 00:13:51,850 lands more accessible. To the disability community. 350 00:13:52,730 --> 00:13:55,309 Yeah. I would really like to see more 351 00:13:55,850 --> 00:13:56,970 collaboration with the community, 352 00:13:57,769 --> 00:13:59,941 you know, the as a as a community 353 00:13:59,941 --> 00:14:02,414 based organization, even, we have a hard time, 354 00:14:02,494 --> 00:14:04,888 you know, kinda getting through the bureaucratic process 355 00:14:04,888 --> 00:14:07,854 and connecting with decision makers first. So making 356 00:14:07,854 --> 00:14:09,925 it easier for them to partner with community 357 00:14:09,925 --> 00:14:10,960 based organizations, 358 00:14:11,916 --> 00:14:14,226 would be, you know, have a huge value 359 00:14:14,226 --> 00:14:16,707 add both to our organization and the government. 360 00:14:17,578 --> 00:14:19,084 And then, you know, there's 361 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,541 there's the Explore Act that is working its 362 00:14:21,541 --> 00:14:23,340 way through the legislative process and that and 363 00:14:23,779 --> 00:14:24,519 itself will, 364 00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:26,279 both allow 365 00:14:27,220 --> 00:14:28,680 the forest service to 366 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:31,559 potentially create and open new roads, but also... 367 00:14:31,794 --> 00:14:34,686 Acquire those accessibility assessments and require 368 00:14:35,860 --> 00:14:38,811 additional accessible facilities that are needed. So, you 369 00:14:38,811 --> 00:14:40,507 know, that act is already going 370 00:14:40,899 --> 00:14:42,093 through the process, 371 00:14:43,049 --> 00:14:44,960 so that could have a huge benefit as 372 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:45,120 well. 373 00:14:46,872 --> 00:14:49,420 Are there any great examples that you have 374 00:14:49,420 --> 00:14:52,301 discovered? As you've been writing these books, posting 375 00:14:52,301 --> 00:14:54,371 your trail guides online. And anything that you 376 00:14:54,371 --> 00:14:55,326 have come across that you're like, 377 00:14:56,042 --> 00:14:58,604 wow. That is really elect executed or a 378 00:14:58,604 --> 00:15:01,570 really great idea that that should be, emulate 379 00:15:01,706 --> 00:15:02,661 more across the country. 380 00:15:03,934 --> 00:15:06,161 Yeah. I'm a really big fan of trail 381 00:15:06,161 --> 00:15:08,889 acts us information signs, and these have been 382 00:15:08,889 --> 00:15:11,842 implemented pretty widely across California State parks and 383 00:15:11,842 --> 00:15:13,060 in some other parks 384 00:15:13,757 --> 00:15:16,401 across the country says and these are signs 385 00:15:16,401 --> 00:15:17,457 that go at the 386 00:15:18,071 --> 00:15:19,582 trail head of every trail that kind of 387 00:15:19,582 --> 00:15:21,412 gives the basic stats on that trail. So 388 00:15:21,412 --> 00:15:21,810 the link, 389 00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:24,046 the surface, the grade, 390 00:15:26,109 --> 00:15:27,855 and, you know, kinda how accessible it is 391 00:15:27,855 --> 00:15:30,570 and how long the accessible portion is, so 392 00:15:30,570 --> 00:15:32,889 that anyone who shows up can write there 393 00:15:32,889 --> 00:15:35,610 or know whether that trail will be appropriate 394 00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:36,329 for them or not. 395 00:15:37,624 --> 00:15:38,977 So that's... I'm a big fan of those. 396 00:15:39,376 --> 00:15:41,765 III suppose that's worth noting. That's the sort 397 00:15:41,765 --> 00:15:43,141 of thing, of course, that benefits 398 00:15:43,517 --> 00:15:45,429 everyone, whether you consider yourself part of the 399 00:15:45,429 --> 00:15:46,066 disabled community. 400 00:15:46,718 --> 00:15:48,889 Or not because everyone has their own 401 00:15:49,503 --> 00:15:53,324 individual capabilities and desires. And IIII 402 00:15:53,324 --> 00:15:54,836 think back to my time back in in 403 00:15:54,836 --> 00:15:55,712 software design, 404 00:15:56,763 --> 00:15:58,860 a lifetime ago, pointing out that 405 00:15:59,478 --> 00:16:00,616 accessible design 406 00:16:01,633 --> 00:16:02,133 helps 407 00:16:02,511 --> 00:16:03,650 absolutely everyone 408 00:16:04,268 --> 00:16:05,726 in in their own 409 00:16:06,037 --> 00:16:08,973 way because you never know whether any given 410 00:16:08,973 --> 00:16:10,877 day you might have more trouble hearing or 411 00:16:10,877 --> 00:16:12,488 typing or anything like that, having 412 00:16:13,835 --> 00:16:16,174 having that baked in on the front end 413 00:16:16,394 --> 00:16:18,634 is not just about 1 community. It's about 414 00:16:18,634 --> 00:16:21,169 everyone. Yeah. Yeah. And there's such a push 415 00:16:21,289 --> 00:16:21,610 to, 416 00:16:22,329 --> 00:16:25,450 reasonably so for being, you know, more responsible 417 00:16:25,450 --> 00:16:27,209 in the way that we recreate and to 418 00:16:27,209 --> 00:16:29,943 plan ahead, but then there's not as strong 419 00:16:29,943 --> 00:16:32,098 of a push to provide the information that 420 00:16:32,098 --> 00:16:33,295 people need to be able to do that. 421 00:16:33,853 --> 00:16:35,630 So, yeah. Yeah. That 422 00:16:36,247 --> 00:16:37,306 reminds me of the 423 00:16:37,618 --> 00:16:39,602 lives that are lost in the Grand Canyon 424 00:16:39,602 --> 00:16:40,158 even just 425 00:16:40,793 --> 00:16:42,618 you know, like, you need to know how 426 00:16:42,618 --> 00:16:44,047 long you're going and you need to know 427 00:16:44,047 --> 00:16:46,366 how steep it's gonna be to to know 428 00:16:46,366 --> 00:16:48,695 how much water to bring. So it's just 429 00:16:48,751 --> 00:16:49,705 big safety issue. 430 00:16:51,614 --> 00:16:53,100 So I think this feeds into our next 431 00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:55,539 question, what do non disabled Hike need to 432 00:16:55,539 --> 00:16:57,299 know or what can they do to create 433 00:16:57,299 --> 00:17:00,019 a more inclusive outdoor experience for everyone? 434 00:17:00,659 --> 00:17:02,992 Question Yeah. That's that's a big question. 435 00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:07,386 Yeah. I think for sure, I always start 436 00:17:07,386 --> 00:17:08,185 with, you know, 437 00:17:08,997 --> 00:17:12,259 listening to the disability community and examining the 438 00:17:12,259 --> 00:17:15,282 able that we have all internalized all of 439 00:17:15,282 --> 00:17:15,521 us, 440 00:17:16,414 --> 00:17:18,894 but, you know, disabled folks, of course, have 441 00:17:18,894 --> 00:17:21,214 more of an enforced opportunity to examine that. 442 00:17:21,535 --> 00:17:23,454 So non disabled folks need to take the 443 00:17:23,454 --> 00:17:25,464 time to do that as well. And then, 444 00:17:25,623 --> 00:17:26,997 you know, when you 445 00:17:27,689 --> 00:17:29,994 encounter something that is not accessible, 446 00:17:30,948 --> 00:17:33,109 you know, to absolutely, talk to someone about 447 00:17:33,109 --> 00:17:35,098 it. You know, it shouldn't always be on 448 00:17:35,098 --> 00:17:37,643 disabled folks to make those complaints and make 449 00:17:37,643 --> 00:17:38,996 those point out those issues. 450 00:17:39,727 --> 00:17:41,398 You know, the non disable community can do 451 00:17:41,398 --> 00:17:41,956 that as well. 452 00:17:42,593 --> 00:17:44,503 And then to just keep in mind, you 453 00:17:44,503 --> 00:17:47,073 know, whether you're hiking or riding 454 00:17:47,383 --> 00:17:49,846 guides or providing information or working within the 455 00:17:49,846 --> 00:17:52,310 industry that there is no 1 type of 456 00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:54,376 hike that, you know, disabled folks, 457 00:17:55,429 --> 00:17:57,986 absolutely our hike as well and that we 458 00:17:57,986 --> 00:17:58,864 deserve to be out there. 459 00:18:00,223 --> 00:18:01,762 We've talked a lot about here in this 460 00:18:01,821 --> 00:18:02,460 conversation about 461 00:18:03,273 --> 00:18:07,177 physical ability and physical trail design, but you 462 00:18:07,177 --> 00:18:10,618 also mentioned that, your volunteers and and board 463 00:18:10,618 --> 00:18:11,756 members, they're also 464 00:18:12,134 --> 00:18:13,490 representing neuro diverse hike, 465 00:18:14,128 --> 00:18:15,643 can you talk a little bit about that 466 00:18:15,643 --> 00:18:16,462 and how 467 00:18:17,318 --> 00:18:17,818 neuro 468 00:18:18,195 --> 00:18:19,653 plays into trail accessibility? 469 00:18:20,522 --> 00:18:23,064 Yeah. So, you know, some... There's a lot 470 00:18:23,064 --> 00:18:25,128 of overlap, of course as well. So, you 471 00:18:25,128 --> 00:18:27,988 know, having, like, good information that people can 472 00:18:27,988 --> 00:18:29,497 plan ahead and know what to expect. 473 00:18:30,389 --> 00:18:32,387 Is certainly an access need within a lot 474 00:18:32,387 --> 00:18:33,585 of neuro virgin people, 475 00:18:34,464 --> 00:18:35,684 having places 476 00:18:36,303 --> 00:18:38,220 where they can go to get away from 477 00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:38,700 crowds, 478 00:18:39,592 --> 00:18:40,092 knowing 479 00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:43,021 in advance, like, where there may be, like, 480 00:18:43,180 --> 00:18:45,253 sudden in or surprise loud noises. 481 00:18:45,971 --> 00:18:47,406 You know, So if I'm going to a 482 00:18:47,406 --> 00:18:47,645 park, 483 00:18:48,380 --> 00:18:49,420 You know, so I live on the Olympic 484 00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:51,660 Peninsula, and we have grow jets that fly 485 00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:54,059 over pretty regularly, and that's a huge issue 486 00:18:54,059 --> 00:18:55,900 for me because, you know, that's a very 487 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,788 loud triggering sound. So knowing where those kind 488 00:18:58,788 --> 00:19:00,005 of things may happen 489 00:19:00,460 --> 00:19:01,255 is really helpful. 490 00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:04,359 So, Siren, what are your plans for the 491 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,682 future of disabled height? You've done so much 492 00:19:06,682 --> 00:19:08,354 already. Where is this all headed? 493 00:19:09,468 --> 00:19:11,856 Yeah. We, have some big plans for the 494 00:19:11,856 --> 00:19:14,562 future. So we're working on, the disabled hackers 495 00:19:14,562 --> 00:19:16,325 network which is kind of the next phase 496 00:19:16,325 --> 00:19:18,255 of growth for us where we will be 497 00:19:19,025 --> 00:19:22,543 providing training and leadership development training and pure 498 00:19:22,678 --> 00:19:25,391 mentorship for disabled folks, which to be able 499 00:19:25,391 --> 00:19:27,294 to learn how to do things like trail 500 00:19:27,294 --> 00:19:29,751 assessments and lead group hikes and work with 501 00:19:29,751 --> 00:19:31,996 parks and organizations in their community 502 00:19:32,304 --> 00:19:33,967 so that we can, you know, expand our 503 00:19:33,967 --> 00:19:36,820 reach and, you know, build more community across 504 00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:38,087 the nation and the world, 505 00:19:39,609 --> 00:19:41,127 So, yeah, That's kinda of the next big 506 00:19:41,127 --> 00:19:42,826 phase of our growth. And 507 00:19:43,364 --> 00:19:45,861 you know, for sure, we're, again, a grassroots 508 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,559 nonprofit, always... Seeking funding, so we're hoping to 509 00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:50,780 get more more funding on board to support 510 00:19:50,780 --> 00:19:51,176 this work. 511 00:19:52,604 --> 00:19:54,687 Awesome. Well, thank you. So much for your 512 00:19:54,687 --> 00:19:57,080 time today. Siren Na carey founder and director 513 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,554 of disabled Hike. It's been an absolute pleasure. 514 00:20:00,352 --> 00:20:00,990 Yeah. Thank you. 515 00:20:05,964 --> 00:20:07,484 Here's a little good news to close out 516 00:20:07,484 --> 00:20:10,140 the episode. The Us forest service has approved 517 00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:12,619 a land swap that will permanently block hard 518 00:20:12,619 --> 00:20:14,940 rock mining on thousands of acres above the 519 00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:16,539 town of crest butte, Colorado. 520 00:20:17,034 --> 00:20:19,345 The deal ends the longest running mine clash 521 00:20:19,345 --> 00:20:21,677 in the lower 48 according to the Colorado 522 00:20:21,735 --> 00:20:21,894 sun. 523 00:20:22,611 --> 00:20:24,697 The swap includes a peak called Mount Emmy, 524 00:20:24,856 --> 00:20:27,025 which locals referred to as the red lady 525 00:20:27,081 --> 00:20:29,307 because of its pink hue. The town is 526 00:20:29,307 --> 00:20:31,691 fought for nearly 50 years against a proposed 527 00:20:31,771 --> 00:20:34,093 Moly mine on the mountain. Which is part 528 00:20:34,093 --> 00:20:36,405 of the town's waters shed. The forest service 529 00:20:36,405 --> 00:20:38,797 will take over management of 625 530 00:20:38,797 --> 00:20:41,587 acres of undeveloped parcels in in holdings across 531 00:20:41,587 --> 00:20:44,307 4 ranches, as well as 15000 acres of 532 00:20:44,307 --> 00:20:46,453 wet lands as part of the swap. In 533 00:20:46,453 --> 00:20:49,472 the Mount Edmonds mining company will get 539 534 00:20:49,472 --> 00:20:51,715 acres of federal land that include the company's 535 00:20:51,715 --> 00:20:54,658 water treatment plant, tailing storage and retention ponds. 536 00:20:55,215 --> 00:20:58,159 Now the company must place conservation ease and 537 00:20:58,159 --> 00:21:00,089 surrender mining right on all the land it 538 00:21:00,089 --> 00:21:02,250 owns as part of the swap, which will 539 00:21:02,250 --> 00:21:04,170 prevent any new mining and development on the 540 00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:06,809 land while still allowing for non motorized recreation 541 00:21:06,809 --> 00:21:09,620 like hiking and back country skiing. Really awesome 542 00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:11,290 to see after a 50 year fight, what 543 00:21:11,290 --> 00:21:12,268 a a fabulous 544 00:21:12,802 --> 00:21:13,540 win win 545 00:21:14,393 --> 00:21:15,290 solution that is 546 00:21:25,307 --> 00:21:27,939 That is it for today, folks, please give 547 00:21:27,939 --> 00:21:29,773 us a good rating. Wherever you're listening to 548 00:21:29,773 --> 00:21:31,607 this right now so that other folks can 549 00:21:31,607 --> 00:21:34,091 find us. And please let us know if 550 00:21:34,091 --> 00:21:35,762 you have thoughts, you can reach us at 551 00:21:35,762 --> 00:21:39,583 podcast at western priorities dot org. Always love 552 00:21:39,583 --> 00:21:42,184 to hear ideas and suggestions for new guests 553 00:21:42,304 --> 00:21:44,539 to talk to. And finally, give us a 554 00:21:44,539 --> 00:21:47,753 follow on Instagram or Tiktok, our colleague Sterling 555 00:21:47,812 --> 00:21:50,606 continues to make really great videos on there. 556 00:21:51,258 --> 00:21:53,167 Thanks again to Siren for speaking with us 557 00:21:53,167 --> 00:21:55,952 today. And as always, thank you for listening 558 00:21:55,952 --> 00:21:56,588 to the v landscape.