1 00:00:00,315 --> 00:00:00,355 - 2 00:00:07,225 --> 00:00:09,875 - Welcome to the Landscape, your show about America's parks 3 00:00:09,875 --> 00:00:10,875 and public lands. 4 00:00:10,935 --> 00:00:12,075 I'm Erin Weiss with the Center 5 00:00:12,075 --> 00:00:15,155 for Western Priorities hanging out up the hill from Denver 6 00:00:15,295 --> 00:00:17,195 in beautiful Evergreen, Colorado this week. 7 00:00:17,775 --> 00:00:20,715 - And I'm Kate Retinger in downtown Salt Lake City. 8 00:00:21,285 --> 00:00:23,795 Today on the show, we're talking to the executive director 9 00:00:23,795 --> 00:00:26,475 of the Alaska Wilderness League about some big steps 10 00:00:26,535 --> 00:00:29,035 to protect public lands in Alaska, made 11 00:00:29,035 --> 00:00:31,035 by the Biden administration this spring. 12 00:00:31,495 --> 00:00:33,355 But before we do that, let's do the news. 13 00:00:34,015 --> 00:00:36,195 - Uh, well, the big news since our last episode is 14 00:00:36,195 --> 00:00:39,555 that President Biden has ended new coal leasing in the 15 00:00:39,555 --> 00:00:41,395 Powder River Basin, which is, of course, 16 00:00:41,455 --> 00:00:43,755 the largest coal producing region in the us. 17 00:00:44,145 --> 00:00:45,595 This is a very big deal. 18 00:00:45,935 --> 00:00:48,355 The president deserves a hardy round of applause here. 19 00:00:48,455 --> 00:00:51,915 Of course, this is key to the energy transition According 20 00:00:51,915 --> 00:00:56,395 to earth justice, this move will keep nearly 6 billion tons 21 00:00:56,415 --> 00:00:57,955 of coal in the ground. 22 00:00:58,735 --> 00:01:00,875 Now, this, uh, decision is the result 23 00:01:00,875 --> 00:01:03,675 of a court case brought by conservation groups over 24 00:01:03,775 --> 00:01:05,475 to Trump Era, bureau 25 00:01:05,495 --> 00:01:07,955 of Land Management Resource Management plans 26 00:01:08,415 --> 00:01:09,555 in the Powder River Basin. 27 00:01:09,775 --> 00:01:11,675 That's located mo mainly in Wyoming, 28 00:01:11,695 --> 00:01:12,995 little bit into Montana. 29 00:01:13,815 --> 00:01:17,715 In 2022, a federal judge found in favor of the groups saying 30 00:01:17,715 --> 00:01:20,315 that those plans didn't address the public health 31 00:01:20,315 --> 00:01:21,915 consequences of coal mining. 32 00:01:22,455 --> 00:01:24,795 The revised plans, which were just released last week, 33 00:01:25,475 --> 00:01:27,355 disallow future coal leasing, 34 00:01:27,355 --> 00:01:28,995 citing the negative environmental 35 00:01:29,095 --> 00:01:30,675 and health impacts of coal mining. 36 00:01:30,935 --> 00:01:35,315 It does not mean that coal mining ends immediately, uh, 37 00:01:35,375 --> 00:01:38,355 but in the Wyoming side, it projects coal mining would end 38 00:01:38,355 --> 00:01:43,115 around 2040, maybe continuing up through 2060 in Montana. 39 00:01:43,615 --> 00:01:45,235 But of course, also at this rate, 40 00:01:45,465 --> 00:01:49,235 when you look at these new EPA coal regulations, uh, 41 00:01:49,235 --> 00:01:52,755 about pollution, all of that also then projects 42 00:01:52,755 --> 00:01:55,195 that all coal power, uh, 43 00:01:55,455 --> 00:02:00,115 in America could be done wound down by 2045. 44 00:02:03,915 --> 00:02:06,585 - We're joined today by Kristen Miller, executive director 45 00:02:06,585 --> 00:02:07,905 of the Alaska Wilderness League. 46 00:02:08,175 --> 00:02:10,225 Kristen, thank you so much for being here. 47 00:02:10,895 --> 00:02:12,065 - Yeah, thank you for having me. 48 00:02:13,325 --> 00:02:17,825 - So let's start off with, um, sort of the biggest news, um, 49 00:02:17,965 --> 00:02:18,985 the, the protections 50 00:02:18,985 --> 00:02:20,825 for the National Petroleum Reserve, Alaska. 51 00:02:21,775 --> 00:02:24,985 What is the NPRA and what is inside of it? 52 00:02:25,655 --> 00:02:30,465 - Yeah, so the NPRA, uh, is the, unfortunately named 53 00:02:31,105 --> 00:02:32,705 National Petroleum Reserve, Alaska. 54 00:02:32,965 --> 00:02:34,665 We like to call it the Western Arctic. 55 00:02:35,375 --> 00:02:39,185 This is a piece of land located in the very remote, 56 00:02:39,215 --> 00:02:40,625 northwest corner of Alaska. 57 00:02:40,885 --> 00:02:43,785 It is our nation's largest piece of public land managed by 58 00:02:44,325 --> 00:02:45,625 the Bureau of Land Management. 59 00:02:46,415 --> 00:02:47,915 The Western Arctic is huge. 60 00:02:48,425 --> 00:02:51,995 It's this vast landscape of wilderness quality lands. 61 00:02:51,995 --> 00:02:54,915 It's got wild rivers, mountains, globally 62 00:02:55,515 --> 00:02:58,875 recognized wetlands, tundra, all in an area the size 63 00:02:58,875 --> 00:03:00,725 of the entire state of Indiana. 64 00:03:01,025 --> 00:03:02,125 It is huge, 65 00:03:02,425 --> 00:03:05,645 but it exists almost completely in its natural state. 66 00:03:05,675 --> 00:03:07,485 It's, it's almost completely untouched 67 00:03:07,485 --> 00:03:08,805 by industrial development. 68 00:03:09,305 --> 00:03:12,565 And within these lands, there are significant geological 69 00:03:13,085 --> 00:03:14,165 cultural, ecological values. 70 00:03:14,275 --> 00:03:16,365 It's home to plants 71 00:03:16,425 --> 00:03:19,525 and animals that you don't see anywhere else In the USA, 72 00:03:20,145 --> 00:03:22,405 for example, there's two caribou herds 73 00:03:22,405 --> 00:03:24,245 that call this place home with hundreds 74 00:03:24,245 --> 00:03:25,405 of thousands of caribou. 75 00:03:25,735 --> 00:03:28,365 There are millions of migratory birds that come 76 00:03:28,365 --> 00:03:32,805 to this region every year to nest and molten live and live. 77 00:03:32,805 --> 00:03:36,045 There's tens of thousands of molten geese. There's raptors. 78 00:03:36,085 --> 00:03:38,525 There's these huge concentrations of beluga whales 79 00:03:38,825 --> 00:03:40,725 and mar other marine mammals that people love, 80 00:03:40,725 --> 00:03:42,365 like the walrus and the polar bear. 81 00:03:42,555 --> 00:03:45,765 It's really quite a biodiversity wonderland. 82 00:03:46,345 --> 00:03:48,085 And because of that, uh, it's home 83 00:03:48,225 --> 00:03:51,285 to more than 40 anupa communities that have lived there 84 00:03:51,465 --> 00:03:52,725 for thousands of years. 85 00:03:53,305 --> 00:03:57,165 And most of those communities still today harvest all 86 00:03:57,265 --> 00:03:58,925 or some of their food 87 00:03:58,925 --> 00:04:01,125 and subsistence resources from these lands. 88 00:04:01,465 --> 00:04:02,485 So it's pretty amazing. 89 00:04:02,785 --> 00:04:04,565 Um, but unfortunately it's also home 90 00:04:04,565 --> 00:04:06,085 to active oil and gas development. 91 00:04:06,105 --> 00:04:07,525 And so it's been under threat, 92 00:04:07,905 --> 00:04:09,325 not only from the continuation, 93 00:04:09,325 --> 00:04:10,805 but the expansion of that development. 94 00:04:11,145 --> 00:04:13,205 - So on top of all of that, of course, 95 00:04:13,585 --> 00:04:15,245 you have climate change, 96 00:04:15,665 --> 00:04:20,285 and as we know, Alaska is feeling the brunt of that, more of 97 00:04:20,285 --> 00:04:23,805 that faster than just about anywhere else on the planet. 98 00:04:24,835 --> 00:04:26,005 - Yeah, yeah, that's true. 99 00:04:26,265 --> 00:04:29,885 Um, I think, I think everybody at this point understands 100 00:04:29,885 --> 00:04:32,725 and accepts that climate change is really significantly 101 00:04:33,965 --> 00:04:35,965 contributing to habitat loss 102 00:04:36,025 --> 00:04:38,565 and the biodiversity loss that we've seen globally. 103 00:04:38,905 --> 00:04:41,965 But this is especially the case in Alaska and the Arctic 104 00:04:42,465 --> 00:04:43,685 and the Arctic specifically, 105 00:04:43,685 --> 00:04:46,325 it's warming four times faster than the rest of the planet. 106 00:04:46,945 --> 00:04:50,405 And then what's more for the area that we're talking about, 107 00:04:50,405 --> 00:04:51,965 the Western Arctic, uh, 108 00:04:52,295 --> 00:04:55,245 there are significant oil extraction activities. 109 00:04:55,385 --> 00:04:58,325 So these lands are feeling impacts from the on the ground 110 00:04:58,685 --> 00:05:00,165 activity, and that is coupled 111 00:05:00,165 --> 00:05:02,325 with the longer term impacts from the burning 112 00:05:02,325 --> 00:05:03,605 of oil and climate change. 113 00:05:04,345 --> 00:05:08,125 So in this region, that's meant shorter winters, uh, 114 00:05:08,255 --> 00:05:10,965 permafrost, that's melting, changing vegetation. 115 00:05:11,225 --> 00:05:13,965 And all of this sort of in turn contributes 116 00:05:14,105 --> 00:05:17,605 to the displacement, the displacement of wildlife. 117 00:05:18,315 --> 00:05:21,005 It's this com combination of issues 118 00:05:21,235 --> 00:05:22,725 that has significant impacts, 119 00:05:22,725 --> 00:05:24,325 and it's happening so fast, it's hard to even 120 00:05:25,085 --> 00:05:27,765 adequately track it all with traditional science. 121 00:05:28,595 --> 00:05:30,365 I've talked to people that live in the Arctic 122 00:05:30,395 --> 00:05:32,885 that tell stories about how in recent years, 123 00:05:32,995 --> 00:05:36,325 they've only seen a handful of caribou coming 124 00:05:36,325 --> 00:05:38,165 through their villages during harvesting season, 125 00:05:38,435 --> 00:05:40,605 when traditionally they've relied on hundreds, 126 00:05:40,605 --> 00:05:43,045 if not thousands of animals to migrate through there 127 00:05:43,385 --> 00:05:46,205 to feed their entire community or other communities. 128 00:05:46,475 --> 00:05:49,365 This has been their way of life for thousands of years, 129 00:05:49,465 --> 00:05:52,365 and they've been seeing these changes just in the last five, 130 00:05:52,505 --> 00:05:53,565 10, and 20 years. 131 00:05:55,065 --> 00:05:58,045 Another example that's probably more nationally known 132 00:05:58,065 --> 00:05:59,085 as just the polar bear. 133 00:05:59,085 --> 00:06:01,205 The polar bear has habitat in the Western Arctic. 134 00:06:01,825 --> 00:06:03,805 Uh, the polar bears are losing weight at the time 135 00:06:03,805 --> 00:06:05,405 of year when they're supposed to be gaining weight 136 00:06:05,405 --> 00:06:08,485 because there's so much unpredictability in sea ice, 137 00:06:08,485 --> 00:06:10,445 and the sea ice just isn't there for them to go out 138 00:06:10,625 --> 00:06:13,405 and hunt the seals that they rely on to feed them 139 00:06:13,405 --> 00:06:14,645 for the entire year. 140 00:06:15,555 --> 00:06:17,405 Similarly, all through Alaska, 141 00:06:17,665 --> 00:06:20,805 you're seeing devastating situations with salmon. 142 00:06:20,945 --> 00:06:23,005 Salmon no longer in many areas 143 00:06:23,185 --> 00:06:24,405 can swim all the way upstream. 144 00:06:24,465 --> 00:06:27,405 It gets so warm, they're going back to their spawning areas. 145 00:06:27,405 --> 00:06:30,045 They're going back to their homes to give, to lay eggs, 146 00:06:30,185 --> 00:06:34,125 and they die in the trip home because the water is so hot. 147 00:06:34,225 --> 00:06:37,005 So there's, there's so many stories like this in Alaska 148 00:06:37,115 --> 00:06:38,925 that the effects of climate change in this 149 00:06:38,925 --> 00:06:40,205 region are so significant. 150 00:06:40,755 --> 00:06:44,205 - Kristen, I wanna ask you about the, the unfortunate name 151 00:06:44,305 --> 00:06:45,685 of the NPRA. 152 00:06:46,375 --> 00:06:48,685 Where did that come from and how was it designated? 153 00:06:49,435 --> 00:06:53,845 - Yeah, so, uh, the, the National Petroleum Reserve Alaska, 154 00:06:54,185 --> 00:06:56,725 uh, it was originally established in 1923 155 00:06:56,825 --> 00:06:58,005 as a petroleum reserve. 156 00:06:58,025 --> 00:07:00,925 So this was in between World War I and World War ii, 157 00:07:01,465 --> 00:07:06,245 and it existed that way for a really long time until 1976. 158 00:07:06,705 --> 00:07:08,885 And in 1976, it was actually, 159 00:07:09,385 --> 00:07:11,605 the management was actually transferred 160 00:07:11,745 --> 00:07:13,085 to the Department of Interior. 161 00:07:14,105 --> 00:07:17,365 And so when that happened, uh, the law 162 00:07:17,395 --> 00:07:20,925 that transferred the land, it called for continuation 163 00:07:21,025 --> 00:07:23,245 of the oil and gas program that existed there 164 00:07:23,825 --> 00:07:25,925 to meet the energy needs of our nation. 165 00:07:26,025 --> 00:07:30,725 But at the same time, it called for the maximum protection 166 00:07:30,985 --> 00:07:33,565 of fish and wildlife habitat during any oil 167 00:07:33,565 --> 00:07:34,565 and gas development. 168 00:07:35,385 --> 00:07:39,205 So that's the history, despite having such a long history 169 00:07:39,225 --> 00:07:42,085 as a petroleum reserve, uh, actual oil 170 00:07:42,085 --> 00:07:43,525 and gas development within the bounds 171 00:07:43,525 --> 00:07:45,645 of the reserve didn't happen in 2004. 172 00:07:46,385 --> 00:07:48,765 So that's just about 20 years of development. 173 00:07:48,785 --> 00:07:50,485 And over that same 20 years 174 00:07:51,155 --> 00:07:54,085 that this development has been just starting 175 00:07:54,145 --> 00:07:56,885 to advance into the Western Arctic, we've also been learning 176 00:07:57,305 --> 00:07:58,965 and confirming that the biodiversity 177 00:07:59,025 --> 00:08:02,085 and climate crisis necessitate that we have to find the end 178 00:08:02,085 --> 00:08:04,845 to massive oil and gas development throughout the country, 179 00:08:04,865 --> 00:08:06,405 but especially in Alaska 180 00:08:06,415 --> 00:08:08,285 where the impacts have been so severe. 181 00:08:09,065 --> 00:08:11,725 - Um, can you say a little bit more about the impact 182 00:08:11,725 --> 00:08:13,845 of climate change on oil and gas development There? 183 00:08:13,925 --> 00:08:15,765 I I've read about the permafrost melting. 184 00:08:15,765 --> 00:08:17,445 Is it getting harder? 185 00:08:17,545 --> 00:08:20,285 Is it more dangerous to develop oil and gas in this area? 186 00:08:21,045 --> 00:08:22,685 - I think there's a lot of unpredictability 187 00:08:22,755 --> 00:08:24,125 with the melting permafrost. 188 00:08:24,145 --> 00:08:26,165 It certainly impacts the infrastructure. 189 00:08:26,185 --> 00:08:27,965 It also makes the damage caused 190 00:08:28,025 --> 00:08:29,685 by the development so severe. 191 00:08:30,065 --> 00:08:33,445 And then you have situations like there was a gas leak 192 00:08:33,445 --> 00:08:38,165 outside of XI that caused a lot of fear, uh, among the, 193 00:08:38,265 --> 00:08:42,085 the people that live in Xi uh, uh, the year before last. 194 00:08:42,465 --> 00:08:44,645 And it's hard to 195 00:08:45,855 --> 00:08:49,205 understand the exact reasons stuff like that is happening. 196 00:08:49,345 --> 00:08:50,645 You know, a lot of it has to do 197 00:08:50,645 --> 00:08:52,125 with the instability of infrastructure. 198 00:08:52,185 --> 00:08:54,725 And like I said, it's really hard for the science 199 00:08:55,065 --> 00:08:58,445 and all of the technology to keep up with the amount 200 00:08:58,555 --> 00:09:01,085 that things are changing, uh, especially 201 00:09:01,085 --> 00:09:02,245 with the permafrost in Alaska. 202 00:09:02,985 --> 00:09:07,805 - So that brings us to how the NPRA is managed today, 203 00:09:08,105 --> 00:09:10,605 and in particular with this NPRA rule, 204 00:09:11,135 --> 00:09:14,925 these designated special areas, um, 205 00:09:15,415 --> 00:09:18,965 which is one of these terms that sounds unbelievably broad, 206 00:09:19,065 --> 00:09:22,325 but actually has some, some very specific meaning when it 207 00:09:22,325 --> 00:09:24,245 comes to NPRA. 208 00:09:24,245 --> 00:09:26,765 Can you, can you explain what these areas are? 209 00:09:26,765 --> 00:09:28,085 How did they get designated and, 210 00:09:28,085 --> 00:09:31,685 and what happens now that you have this special designation? 211 00:09:32,685 --> 00:09:35,165 - Yeah, yeah. I always say to people, we didn't just decide 212 00:09:35,165 --> 00:09:37,005 to start calling them special areas. 213 00:09:37,035 --> 00:09:38,365 Even though they are special areas, 214 00:09:38,395 --> 00:09:41,365 they're actually designated officially legally designated 215 00:09:41,905 --> 00:09:43,445 as special areas. 216 00:09:44,265 --> 00:09:47,685 So as part of that same law that transferred the management 217 00:09:47,905 --> 00:09:50,405 of the Western Arctic over to the Department of Interior, 218 00:09:50,825 --> 00:09:54,325 as I said, that law calls for maximum protection 219 00:09:54,345 --> 00:09:57,085 of the areas within the Western Arctic that have 220 00:09:57,625 --> 00:10:00,365 the most extraordinary ecological significance. 221 00:10:00,865 --> 00:10:03,365 And so those, there was studies that were done, 222 00:10:03,695 --> 00:10:05,005 areas were identified, 223 00:10:05,105 --> 00:10:08,445 and then to better protect those ecological values 224 00:10:08,545 --> 00:10:10,605 and those specifically significant areas, 225 00:10:11,385 --> 00:10:15,205 it ended up being 13 million acres across the Western Arctic 226 00:10:15,475 --> 00:10:19,765 that were designated as five different special areas under 227 00:10:20,355 --> 00:10:22,485 DOIs management over the history 228 00:10:22,785 --> 00:10:24,845 of their management of this land. 229 00:10:25,025 --> 00:10:27,205 And that those areas are better 230 00:10:27,315 --> 00:10:28,965 protected for future generations. 231 00:10:29,735 --> 00:10:33,045 Three of the special areas were actually designated when the 232 00:10:33,065 --> 00:10:35,045 law in the law that transferred the land over 233 00:10:35,045 --> 00:10:36,485 to de the Department of Interior. 234 00:10:36,665 --> 00:10:40,925 So that's Toch Puck Lake special area, which was protected 235 00:10:40,925 --> 00:10:43,685 because of its, uh, importance to micro prairie bird 236 00:10:43,705 --> 00:10:45,165 and waterfowl habitat. 237 00:10:46,065 --> 00:10:49,445 The Utica River Upland special area was designated 238 00:10:49,445 --> 00:10:51,725 and recognized for providing critical habitat 239 00:10:51,825 --> 00:10:53,725 for the caribou, the Western arctic herd 240 00:10:54,305 --> 00:10:57,845 and the Coalville River special area was designated 241 00:10:58,365 --> 00:11:01,245 recognized for its important critical nesting habitat 242 00:11:01,245 --> 00:11:02,925 for Arctic peregrine falcons. 243 00:11:03,465 --> 00:11:05,365 So those were designated in the law, 244 00:11:05,385 --> 00:11:06,805 and then they were also expanded 245 00:11:07,345 --> 00:11:10,365 and, um, granted more protections in various land 246 00:11:10,365 --> 00:11:11,685 management plans over time. 247 00:11:12,505 --> 00:11:15,245 And then two other special areas were actually created 248 00:11:15,265 --> 00:11:17,445 during land management planning processes. 249 00:11:17,985 --> 00:11:22,925 One was a Clic Lagoon special area, which was designated 250 00:11:22,925 --> 00:11:24,405 because of its important habitat 251 00:11:24,465 --> 00:11:27,285 for marine mammals under George W. Bush. 252 00:11:27,665 --> 00:11:31,245 And, uh, the PID Bay special area was designated 253 00:11:31,245 --> 00:11:33,925 because of its importance to marine mammals and staging 254 00:11:33,925 --> 00:11:36,565 and migration for water, uh, fowl and shore birds. 255 00:11:36,985 --> 00:11:39,085 And that was designated in a planning process 256 00:11:39,135 --> 00:11:40,405 under President Obama. 257 00:11:40,825 --> 00:11:44,325 So that's just a little example of the bipartisan priority 258 00:11:44,325 --> 00:11:46,725 of protecting the most special areas of the Western artery. 259 00:11:46,865 --> 00:11:49,485 - And and how many acres are we talking about in total then? 260 00:11:49,505 --> 00:11:51,525 For special areas inside the NPRA 261 00:11:52,085 --> 00:11:54,605 - 13 million acres are protected as special areas. 262 00:11:55,145 --> 00:11:58,165 Um, but there are actually some of those areas 263 00:11:58,235 --> 00:12:00,205 that do have active oil and gas leases on them. 264 00:12:01,225 --> 00:12:05,125 - So Kristen, you mentioned a few communities earlier. 265 00:12:05,865 --> 00:12:08,725 Um, can you tell us a little bit about what the human 266 00:12:09,355 --> 00:12:13,485 like footprint is in, in the NPRA or outside of the NPRA and 267 00:12:13,785 --> 00:12:17,245 and how people use the resources within it, 268 00:12:17,245 --> 00:12:18,765 like caribou and whatnot? 269 00:12:19,655 --> 00:12:21,125 - There are 40 communities. 270 00:12:21,855 --> 00:12:24,805 There are probably more than 40 communities in the region in 271 00:12:24,805 --> 00:12:26,885 the Western Arctic and outside of, uh, 272 00:12:26,885 --> 00:12:28,685 the actual National Petroleum Reserve, 273 00:12:28,825 --> 00:12:31,525 and then communities that are within the National Petroleum 274 00:12:31,525 --> 00:12:36,045 Reserve, and these are Anup indigenous villages 275 00:12:36,075 --> 00:12:38,085 that have basically lived in this region, 276 00:12:38,225 --> 00:12:39,845 region since time immemorial. 277 00:12:40,555 --> 00:12:42,605 They rely on the Western Arctic 278 00:12:42,825 --> 00:12:44,965 and the central arctic caribou herd. 279 00:12:45,225 --> 00:12:48,245 Uh, they rely on these animals for their subsistence food, 280 00:12:48,425 --> 00:12:50,165 and they use every part of the animal 281 00:12:50,165 --> 00:12:51,485 for their culture and their way of life. 282 00:12:51,755 --> 00:12:53,125 They subsist on wailing 283 00:12:53,305 --> 00:12:56,285 and many ducks, many of the animals that go into the region. 284 00:12:56,345 --> 00:12:59,885 And so this biodiversity, this, these resources 285 00:12:59,885 --> 00:13:02,885 of the Western Arctic that support this significant 286 00:13:02,885 --> 00:13:06,045 confluence of so many different animals, this is the, 287 00:13:06,045 --> 00:13:07,525 these are the same resources 288 00:13:07,635 --> 00:13:10,325 that have been the subsistence livelihood 289 00:13:10,325 --> 00:13:11,525 and the subsistence way of life 290 00:13:11,545 --> 00:13:13,405 of these communities for thousands of years. 291 00:13:14,585 --> 00:13:16,325 - So that brings us then to 292 00:13:17,035 --> 00:13:19,245 what the Biden administration just did, 293 00:13:19,385 --> 00:13:24,365 we increasing protections for those 13 million acres 294 00:13:24,385 --> 00:13:25,565 of special areas. 295 00:13:26,385 --> 00:13:29,725 Uh, increasing protection is again, a pretty broad term 296 00:13:29,725 --> 00:13:31,205 that can mean a lot of things. 297 00:13:31,345 --> 00:13:34,525 So how, how significant is this change 298 00:13:34,525 --> 00:13:36,445 that we just saw in the NPRA rule? 299 00:13:37,735 --> 00:13:41,905 - Yeah, so big picture in the same sort of time period 300 00:13:41,905 --> 00:13:43,985 that we're talking about in these recent decades 301 00:13:44,135 --> 00:13:46,065 that we have all come to understand 302 00:13:46,085 --> 00:13:47,185 how global climate change 303 00:13:47,185 --> 00:13:51,105 and biodiversity loss are dramatically affecting all 304 00:13:51,105 --> 00:13:53,865 of us in the Arctic during the same time period. 305 00:13:54,285 --> 00:13:56,745 The regulations that govern the management 306 00:13:57,005 --> 00:13:59,065 of the Western Arctic, this particular piece 307 00:13:59,065 --> 00:14:00,585 of land hadn't, hadn't changed at all. 308 00:14:01,205 --> 00:14:04,625 And so it's been important to us at Alaska Wilderness League 309 00:14:04,725 --> 00:14:06,505 to see a modernization 310 00:14:06,565 --> 00:14:09,265 of the way the Western Arctic is managed in light 311 00:14:09,265 --> 00:14:10,785 of the current climate crisis. 312 00:14:11,165 --> 00:14:13,985 And that is what the Biden administration set out at taking 313 00:14:14,105 --> 00:14:16,065 a step towards doing with this regulation. 314 00:14:16,805 --> 00:14:19,425 So a little bit more specifically, uh, 315 00:14:20,135 --> 00:14:22,985 what the regulation does is it reaffirms 316 00:14:22,985 --> 00:14:26,265 that there is a presumption against any new leasing 317 00:14:26,265 --> 00:14:28,305 and infrastructure within those 13 million 318 00:14:28,435 --> 00:14:29,705 acres of special areas. 319 00:14:30,365 --> 00:14:32,345 And then even a little bit more specifically, 320 00:14:32,405 --> 00:14:36,945 it prohibits any new leasing on the 10 plus million 321 00:14:37,125 --> 00:14:38,905 of acres within those special areas 322 00:14:38,975 --> 00:14:40,545 that don't already have leases. 323 00:14:41,005 --> 00:14:42,625 So that's, that's really important. 324 00:14:43,205 --> 00:14:45,385 Um, it also reinforces 325 00:14:45,605 --> 00:14:48,385 and starts to better define exactly what they mean 326 00:14:48,385 --> 00:14:49,385 by maximum protection. 327 00:14:49,385 --> 00:14:51,290 It hadn't really been well defined for a, a number 328 00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:52,445 of, for all of these decades. 329 00:14:53,265 --> 00:14:56,245 And so we're getting a better sense of what it means 330 00:14:56,305 --> 00:14:57,565 and what kind of things that we can do 331 00:14:57,565 --> 00:14:59,725 to safeguard the significant resource values 332 00:14:59,785 --> 00:15:00,805 of these special areas. 333 00:15:02,145 --> 00:15:05,245 It clarifies the durability of the special areas. 334 00:15:05,505 --> 00:15:08,125 So that means that once a special area is created, 335 00:15:08,625 --> 00:15:11,485 it is clear that that special area is gonna remain 336 00:15:12,065 --> 00:15:15,845 unless, uh, they're, they can prove that the unique values 337 00:15:15,985 --> 00:15:19,125 and characteristics that the area was originally set aside 338 00:15:19,125 --> 00:15:21,285 to protect basically no longer exists. 339 00:15:21,385 --> 00:15:23,445 So that's a pretty strong standard to make sure 340 00:15:23,445 --> 00:15:25,245 that those special areas are there for a long time. 341 00:15:25,785 --> 00:15:28,125 And then it is establishes a regular process 342 00:15:28,865 --> 00:15:30,685 to determine whether they need to expand 343 00:15:31,625 --> 00:15:34,085 the existing special areas or create new special areas. 344 00:15:34,385 --> 00:15:35,645 - And and that's every five years? 345 00:15:36,435 --> 00:15:37,565 - It's every 10 years now. 346 00:15:37,705 --> 00:15:39,085 - 10 years. Every 10 years now. Okay. 347 00:15:39,465 --> 00:15:42,925 Um, and so, uh, I would presume then 348 00:15:42,925 --> 00:15:45,365 with the speed at which climate change is affecting the 349 00:15:45,365 --> 00:15:49,645 Arctic, we could see then more special areas 350 00:15:50,425 --> 00:15:51,965 in 2034. 351 00:15:52,305 --> 00:15:55,685 Is that fair? Or something you would hope to see? 352 00:15:56,225 --> 00:15:58,485 - Oh, actually even more so, uh, what, 353 00:15:58,485 --> 00:16:01,485 what we were also very excited about is when this rule was 354 00:16:01,485 --> 00:16:03,405 finalized, when the Biden administration made the 355 00:16:03,565 --> 00:16:04,565 announcement, they also announced 356 00:16:04,565 --> 00:16:06,405 that they are gonna start a process. 357 00:16:06,625 --> 00:16:09,205 - Oh, right now 20. Okay, so 20, 24, 25, yep. 358 00:16:09,205 --> 00:16:10,325 Sign significant. Great. 359 00:16:10,395 --> 00:16:12,685 - Yeah. Yeah. So we're expecting in the next couple weeks a 360 00:16:12,685 --> 00:16:15,245 request for information in which there will be a public 361 00:16:15,245 --> 00:16:18,485 comment period, and we can all weigh in on whether we want 362 00:16:18,485 --> 00:16:21,245 to see more values protected, special areas 363 00:16:21,245 --> 00:16:24,005 that exist expanded or, or new special areas. 364 00:16:24,145 --> 00:16:26,285 So that's, that's gonna be a big focus going forward. 365 00:16:27,155 --> 00:16:29,365 - Kristen, this feels like a good time to ask. 366 00:16:29,665 --> 00:16:31,445 Um, how was wilderness, sorry. 367 00:16:31,445 --> 00:16:34,165 How was the Alaska Wilderness League involved in advocating 368 00:16:34,425 --> 00:16:36,445 for these changes and, um, 369 00:16:36,905 --> 00:16:38,605 how will you guys engage in the process 370 00:16:38,665 --> 00:16:40,565 of designating new special areas? 371 00:16:42,275 --> 00:16:44,005 - Yeah, this has been a huge priority 372 00:16:44,005 --> 00:16:45,045 for the Alaska wilderness. 373 00:16:45,185 --> 00:16:48,045 We league, uh, we've, we've been actually working for 374 00:16:48,665 --> 00:16:50,805 the protection of the Western Arctic for decades. 375 00:16:51,185 --> 00:16:53,525 So this is a issue that we've cared about 376 00:16:53,525 --> 00:16:54,565 for a really long time. 377 00:16:55,425 --> 00:16:57,645 And then in light of the climate crisis 378 00:16:57,645 --> 00:17:00,205 and all the work that we're doing today, this idea 379 00:17:00,425 --> 00:17:04,365 of updating the management of the Western Arctic in light 380 00:17:04,365 --> 00:17:06,525 of the climate crisis has been a priority ever since 381 00:17:06,525 --> 00:17:07,765 President Biden came into office. 382 00:17:07,905 --> 00:17:09,645 So we were very excited 383 00:17:09,705 --> 00:17:12,405 and involved in, in this effort, you know, some 384 00:17:12,405 --> 00:17:13,965 of the things we do, we educate our members, 385 00:17:14,025 --> 00:17:15,725 we educate the public about the issue. 386 00:17:15,785 --> 00:17:19,205 We work really hard to make sure the story of the landscape 387 00:17:19,205 --> 00:17:22,125 and the story of the people is really elevated in the 388 00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:23,405 media and all around the country. 389 00:17:24,145 --> 00:17:27,005 And we engage deeply in the effort 390 00:17:27,005 --> 00:17:29,005 to bring people's comments to decision makers 391 00:17:29,005 --> 00:17:30,445 and to ourselves, uh, 392 00:17:30,445 --> 00:17:32,885 engage in the comment making progress pro process 393 00:17:32,955 --> 00:17:33,965 with decision makers. 394 00:17:34,465 --> 00:17:35,645 So yeah, it was really 395 00:17:35,645 --> 00:17:36,885 important and we were really involved. 396 00:17:37,955 --> 00:17:41,565 - Alright, let's move from NPRA to the other big Alaska 397 00:17:42,085 --> 00:17:43,965 announcement, uh, in April, which was 398 00:17:44,715 --> 00:17:48,085 canceling the proposed Ambler Mining Road. 399 00:17:49,015 --> 00:17:50,405 We've talked about it before on this podcast, 400 00:17:50,585 --> 00:17:51,765 but I think it was several years back. 401 00:17:51,785 --> 00:17:54,405 So just refresh us, what was that proposal 402 00:17:54,625 --> 00:17:58,085 and what would it have meant if this road had gotten built? 403 00:17:59,155 --> 00:18:03,805 - Yeah. So the proposed Ambler Road would've been a 200 404 00:18:04,235 --> 00:18:08,685 plus mile industrial corridor on the south side 405 00:18:08,685 --> 00:18:09,885 of the brook of the Brooks Range. 406 00:18:09,945 --> 00:18:12,165 So this is basically south of the western arctic 407 00:18:12,195 --> 00:18:14,365 that we're talking about, close to the gates 408 00:18:14,365 --> 00:18:15,765 of the Arctic National Preserve. 409 00:18:17,145 --> 00:18:21,205 The proposed road, if you looked at the proposal, 410 00:18:21,465 --> 00:18:25,765 it would've risked more than 1400 acres of wetlands. 411 00:18:26,185 --> 00:18:30,325 It would've crossed 300, or sorry, 3000 streams. 412 00:18:30,465 --> 00:18:33,205 It would've cut through the gates of the Arctic preserve, 413 00:18:33,545 --> 00:18:36,565 it would've cut through salmon spawning habitat. 414 00:18:36,585 --> 00:18:38,325 It would've cut through the migration route 415 00:18:38,325 --> 00:18:39,725 of the western arctic caribou herd. 416 00:18:39,865 --> 00:18:42,245 So it had a lot of really significant on the ground 417 00:18:42,355 --> 00:18:43,965 threats of impact. 418 00:18:44,465 --> 00:18:48,005 And then beyond that, the, what the road was actually being 419 00:18:48,525 --> 00:18:51,365 proposed for was a massive industrial complex 420 00:18:51,435 --> 00:18:55,245 that would've supported a copper mine into the future, 421 00:18:55,525 --> 00:18:56,965 a huge open pick, copper mine. 422 00:18:57,225 --> 00:19:00,365 And that would've really threatened all the local fisheries 423 00:19:00,465 --> 00:19:03,805 and many, many subsistence resources for local communities. 424 00:19:04,305 --> 00:19:07,805 So what happened recently is the final environmental impact 425 00:19:07,805 --> 00:19:10,005 statement was released by the Biden administration. 426 00:19:10,385 --> 00:19:12,445 And right now they have preferred, 427 00:19:12,675 --> 00:19:15,125 they have shown the preferred alternative to be no road. 428 00:19:15,265 --> 00:19:17,405 And so we need to make sure that they hear 429 00:19:17,405 --> 00:19:21,005 that we really support that decision over the next, not 30, 430 00:19:21,265 --> 00:19:22,725 now, maybe 20 days. 431 00:19:23,085 --> 00:19:24,405 not exactly. 432 00:19:25,025 --> 00:19:29,405 - So, so not final final, but heading towards a final No. 433 00:19:29,705 --> 00:19:33,005 - Yes. - Um, Kristin, from what I understand, 434 00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:35,245 that road would've also cut through part of gates 435 00:19:35,245 --> 00:19:37,685 of the Arctic National Park and Preserve. 436 00:19:38,305 --> 00:19:39,765 Um, why is that a problem? 437 00:19:40,805 --> 00:19:43,925 - Yeah, so, uh, it would've cut through 20 miles 438 00:19:44,425 --> 00:19:47,605 of globally significant national park and preserve. 439 00:19:48,225 --> 00:19:51,965 One of the reasons the gates of the Arctic Park exist is 440 00:19:52,025 --> 00:19:55,525 to protect these full scale habitats for essential fish 441 00:19:55,525 --> 00:19:56,565 and wildlife populations. 442 00:19:56,665 --> 00:20:00,605 So you're talking about caribou, grizzly bears, wolves, 443 00:20:00,625 --> 00:20:05,205 and these are species that require a lot of room to thrive 444 00:20:05,345 --> 00:20:09,085 and a lot of room to maintain their habitat. 445 00:20:09,825 --> 00:20:11,965 Uh, the gates, this is part 446 00:20:11,965 --> 00:20:13,445 of the reason why it was so exciting to us. 447 00:20:13,745 --> 00:20:16,205 Uh, much of the reason why it was so exciting to us 448 00:20:16,205 --> 00:20:18,085 that the Biden administration did these 449 00:20:18,625 --> 00:20:20,245 two decisions together. 450 00:20:20,635 --> 00:20:22,205 It's 'cause it really tells the story of 451 00:20:22,205 --> 00:20:23,525 what you have the opportunity to protect. 452 00:20:23,525 --> 00:20:25,285 In Alaska, the gates of the Arctic 453 00:20:25,305 --> 00:20:27,005 and the Western Arctic have the same 454 00:20:27,005 --> 00:20:28,405 caribou herd that migrate through. 455 00:20:28,405 --> 00:20:30,125 And these animals don't know the bounds. 456 00:20:30,235 --> 00:20:32,125 They don't know where the gates of the Arctic ends 457 00:20:32,125 --> 00:20:33,765 and the western Arctic begins. 458 00:20:33,765 --> 00:20:35,205 This is just where they migrate. 459 00:20:35,465 --> 00:20:38,765 And so these are entire landscapes that support ecology 460 00:20:38,865 --> 00:20:41,165 and it support entire ecosystems. 461 00:20:41,265 --> 00:20:43,205 And we have the opportunity in Alaska 462 00:20:43,385 --> 00:20:45,565 to still protect at that level. 463 00:20:45,985 --> 00:20:48,845 And the Biden administration looking at these two deci 464 00:20:49,085 --> 00:20:50,925 decisions together and understanding the values 465 00:20:50,985 --> 00:20:52,005 and how they interrelate 466 00:20:52,005 --> 00:20:53,725 and the interconnectedness of all 467 00:20:53,725 --> 00:20:55,685 of these areas was so important. 468 00:20:55,865 --> 00:20:57,445 And that is what is gonna be able 469 00:20:57,445 --> 00:21:00,565 to help us keep this Arctic region long into the future. 470 00:21:00,665 --> 00:21:02,365 And we have the opportunity to do that in Alaska, 471 00:21:02,465 --> 00:21:04,885 unlike anywhere else in the United States. Right. 472 00:21:05,285 --> 00:21:07,405 - I I think it's probably important to point out folks here, 473 00:21:07,845 --> 00:21:12,605 national Park and they may think like Yellowstone or Glacier 474 00:21:12,825 --> 00:21:16,005 or Rocky Mountain where you have roads, you know, 475 00:21:16,065 --> 00:21:18,325 big heavily trafficked roads running 476 00:21:18,325 --> 00:21:21,245 through the national park that are part of the draw 477 00:21:21,245 --> 00:21:24,685 of the park as effectively a tourist attraction. 478 00:21:25,265 --> 00:21:28,005 And that is decidedly not gates of the Arctic. 479 00:21:29,075 --> 00:21:32,045 - Yeah, there is one road once you get to Fairbanks 480 00:21:32,045 --> 00:21:34,125 and a little bit north, there's then one road 481 00:21:34,125 --> 00:21:35,765 that you can take that takes you straight 482 00:21:35,945 --> 00:21:37,165 up to the top of Alaska. 483 00:21:37,945 --> 00:21:41,045 And that's, you know, almost the half the land mass 484 00:21:41,345 --> 00:21:42,845 of central Alaska 485 00:21:43,105 --> 00:21:46,565 and North has no roads, has no roads, 486 00:21:46,585 --> 00:21:48,085 interconnected road system. 487 00:21:48,265 --> 00:21:50,365 So yeah, in order to get the gates of the Arctic, 488 00:21:50,705 --> 00:21:52,085 you can drive up that one road, 489 00:21:52,265 --> 00:21:53,525 but then you have to hike in 490 00:21:53,585 --> 00:21:56,285 for those 20 plus miles in order to 491 00:21:56,465 --> 00:21:57,685 - You hit the park gate and that's it. 492 00:21:58,555 --> 00:21:59,555 Yeah. 493 00:22:00,915 --> 00:22:04,885 - Kristen, I'm curious, hearing you talk about these two 494 00:22:05,405 --> 00:22:08,845 decisions, um, it seems like a, a pretty big deal 495 00:22:08,905 --> 00:22:10,285 for Alaska overall. 496 00:22:10,535 --> 00:22:13,085 Would you say this is some of one of the biggest 497 00:22:13,775 --> 00:22:15,565 steps forward in conservation in Alaska 498 00:22:16,215 --> 00:22:17,605 since like Jimmy Carter? 499 00:22:17,665 --> 00:22:19,885 Or like, can you put this in historical perspective for us? 500 00:22:20,105 --> 00:22:22,005 How big of a deal are these two decisions 501 00:22:22,105 --> 00:22:23,365 coming down at the same time? 502 00:22:24,285 --> 00:22:27,165 - I think it's a huge deal for conservation 503 00:22:27,545 --> 00:22:31,805 and it's a huge deal for the day and age in which we are in. 504 00:22:32,685 --> 00:22:33,845 I think the, 505 00:22:34,145 --> 00:22:38,125 the Western Arctic was originally set aside a hundred years 506 00:22:38,225 --> 00:22:39,845 ago for oil and gas development. 507 00:22:40,185 --> 00:22:43,245 And we really focus in now on the part of the law 508 00:22:43,245 --> 00:22:44,645 that says we need to develop it 509 00:22:44,645 --> 00:22:45,965 for the energy needs of our nation. 510 00:22:46,185 --> 00:22:48,845 The energy needs of our nation have now have 511 00:22:48,845 --> 00:22:50,285 to include the climate crisis. 512 00:22:50,705 --> 00:22:52,765 And we really have to look at what we're doing 513 00:22:53,395 --> 00:22:54,645 from an energy perspective. 514 00:22:54,705 --> 00:22:56,605 And that has to include stopping 515 00:22:56,745 --> 00:22:58,005 the development of oil and gas. 516 00:22:58,005 --> 00:22:59,965 And that is just a different place than we were when this 517 00:22:59,965 --> 00:23:01,045 was originally set aside. 518 00:23:01,345 --> 00:23:04,685 And now we are seeing the Biden administration recognize 519 00:23:04,685 --> 00:23:05,965 that and recognize it through the, 520 00:23:05,985 --> 00:23:07,445 the actual formal management. 521 00:23:07,705 --> 00:23:10,285 And similar with the LER road, we are just recognizing 522 00:23:10,285 --> 00:23:12,365 that we need to take the, we have lost 523 00:23:12,465 --> 00:23:13,725 so much in the lower 48 524 00:23:13,905 --> 00:23:16,925 and it was incremental development over hundreds of years. 525 00:23:17,545 --> 00:23:19,685 And, and that hasn't happened in many parts of Alaska. 526 00:23:19,825 --> 00:23:22,205 And we need to learn from the mistakes of the past 527 00:23:22,545 --> 00:23:25,245 and these are decisions that are gonna make sure 528 00:23:25,245 --> 00:23:27,245 that we have these incredible, 529 00:23:27,245 --> 00:23:29,285 incredible resources for generations to come. 530 00:23:30,345 --> 00:23:31,365 - So what's next 531 00:23:31,365 --> 00:23:35,085 for Alaska Wilderness Lead have these two big victories? 532 00:23:35,545 --> 00:23:37,765 On the other hand, we haven't talked about the Willow 533 00:23:38,005 --> 00:23:40,245 decision, which obviously, uh, US 534 00:23:40,245 --> 00:23:42,165 and many other groups were very critical 535 00:23:42,225 --> 00:23:43,645 of approving that project. 536 00:23:44,265 --> 00:23:46,965 So what's next for your group? 537 00:23:47,025 --> 00:23:49,365 How do you move forward and what are your priorities? 538 00:23:50,445 --> 00:23:53,175 - Yeah, I think we just talked about the special area 539 00:23:53,175 --> 00:23:55,055 process that's gonna be really important to us. 540 00:23:55,115 --> 00:23:56,535 And we really wanna see 541 00:23:56,875 --> 00:23:59,815 and make sure that there are no more willows ever approved 542 00:23:59,835 --> 00:24:01,535 in this area, ever approved in the Arctic. 543 00:24:01,535 --> 00:24:02,775 That is incredibly important. 544 00:24:02,775 --> 00:24:04,535 That's what the opportunity we have 545 00:24:04,535 --> 00:24:05,735 with this special area process. 546 00:24:05,995 --> 00:24:07,495 So we're gonna be doing a lot 547 00:24:07,495 --> 00:24:09,855 of work looking at the science, talking 548 00:24:09,955 --> 00:24:11,135 to the people on the ground 549 00:24:11,315 --> 00:24:14,375 and understanding what values aren't yet protected 550 00:24:14,375 --> 00:24:16,135 and what areas aren't yet protected 551 00:24:16,395 --> 00:24:18,375 and what extra protections are needed 552 00:24:18,375 --> 00:24:20,415 because of the threat of oil and gas development. 553 00:24:20,415 --> 00:24:22,455 And we need to turn around this trajectory 554 00:24:22,915 --> 00:24:23,935 of allowing more oil 555 00:24:23,995 --> 00:24:25,775 and make sure we don't see any more willows. 556 00:24:25,775 --> 00:24:27,735 So that's gonna be really important to us going forward. 557 00:24:28,435 --> 00:24:30,735 On the other side of the Arctic is also the Arctic National 558 00:24:30,975 --> 00:24:32,655 Wildlife Refuge, which is an area 559 00:24:33,005 --> 00:24:35,495 that many people from across the country have fought 560 00:24:35,515 --> 00:24:37,865 to protect for decades. 561 00:24:38,955 --> 00:24:41,425 There is a mandated lease sale that has 562 00:24:41,425 --> 00:24:43,385 to happen in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 563 00:24:43,965 --> 00:24:47,305 but as we, as we sit here today, there is no, 564 00:24:47,315 --> 00:24:49,705 there are no leases held in the Arctic National Wildlife 565 00:24:49,705 --> 00:24:50,745 Refuge on the coastal plane. 566 00:24:50,915 --> 00:24:53,825 There is o no oil and gas development in the coastal plane. 567 00:24:54,085 --> 00:24:56,465 And I think we can keep it that way if we keep fighting. 568 00:24:56,685 --> 00:24:59,785 And so we wanna get to the end of the year of 569 00:24:59,785 --> 00:25:00,865 that mandated lease sale 570 00:25:00,975 --> 00:25:02,945 with no leases held on the coastal plan 571 00:25:02,945 --> 00:25:05,145 of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge so 572 00:25:05,145 --> 00:25:06,945 that we also have the opportunity to protect 573 00:25:06,945 --> 00:25:09,225 that amazing landscape for generations. 574 00:25:09,975 --> 00:25:12,265 - Kristen, quick clarifying question there. 575 00:25:12,285 --> 00:25:16,825 So the, the BLMI am assuming they will hold that auction, 576 00:25:17,445 --> 00:25:21,465 and is the goal to just ensure that no companies bid? 577 00:25:21,485 --> 00:25:24,265 Or are you trying to have the BLM shrink the, 578 00:25:24,565 --> 00:25:26,505 the parcels available in that auction? 579 00:25:27,405 --> 00:25:30,385 - Uh, there's lots of options. There's lots of options. 580 00:25:30,385 --> 00:25:31,825 Right now what's happening is there's, 581 00:25:31,825 --> 00:25:33,425 the environmental impact statement is being done, 582 00:25:33,645 --> 00:25:35,265 and so that needs to be written away. 583 00:25:35,265 --> 00:25:37,105 That makes sure that the protection 584 00:25:37,105 --> 00:25:39,505 of the resource is the priority in that plan. 585 00:25:40,225 --> 00:25:44,065 I think once you have an environmental impact statement 586 00:25:44,135 --> 00:25:46,345 that is as protective as possible 587 00:25:46,925 --> 00:25:50,195 and you get to a lease sale, it's gonna be really 588 00:25:51,435 --> 00:25:52,475 unattractive to bid. 589 00:25:52,495 --> 00:25:54,595 You know, this is a place that not, not one American wants 590 00:25:54,595 --> 00:25:55,595 to see developed. 591 00:25:55,985 --> 00:25:57,795 When there, when we held the last lease sale, 592 00:25:57,895 --> 00:25:59,595 no major oil companies showed up. 593 00:25:59,655 --> 00:26:02,475 And so that's the scenario that we really wanna see again, 594 00:26:02,815 --> 00:26:05,595 in part because it's gonna be really unattractive 595 00:26:05,855 --> 00:26:09,035 to develop there because there's so much opposition, 596 00:26:09,035 --> 00:26:13,675 because there's so many, um, uh, re parts 597 00:26:13,675 --> 00:26:15,675 of the regulation that are aiming to protect it. 598 00:26:15,735 --> 00:26:18,275 And so, and then the administration will hold a lease sale, 599 00:26:18,375 --> 00:26:19,835 but I think it's gonna be a lease sale 600 00:26:19,835 --> 00:26:21,075 that nobody wants to engage in. 601 00:26:21,735 --> 00:26:25,275 - Got it. Got it. Making it kind of toxic to even touch. 602 00:26:25,825 --> 00:26:27,555 - Yeah. - Great. 603 00:26:27,555 --> 00:26:29,755 Well, Kristen, thank you so much for your time today. 604 00:26:30,055 --> 00:26:33,155 Um, again, we have Kristen Miller, executive director 605 00:26:33,155 --> 00:26:34,755 of the Alaska Wilderness League here, 606 00:26:34,935 --> 00:26:36,755 and we just really enjoyed this conversation. 607 00:26:37,345 --> 00:26:39,195 - Yeah, thanks guys. It was so great to talk to you. 608 00:26:44,395 --> 00:26:47,255 - Here's some good news. Interior Secretary Deb Holland 609 00:26:47,255 --> 00:26:49,975 visited the proposed Chuck Wall National Monument 610 00:26:50,115 --> 00:26:51,215 in southern California. 611 00:26:51,285 --> 00:26:55,095 Over the weekend, the proposed monument includes 600,000 612 00:26:55,185 --> 00:26:57,935 acres of desert adjacent to Joshua Tree National Park, 613 00:26:58,895 --> 00:27:00,255 a visit from Holland Signals, 614 00:27:00,255 --> 00:27:02,975 the administration is taking the monument proposal seriously 615 00:27:03,435 --> 00:27:04,895 and they could hold a community forum 616 00:27:04,905 --> 00:27:06,135 about the monument soon. 617 00:27:06,465 --> 00:27:08,575 We'll stay tuned for that and keep you all updated. 618 00:27:18,325 --> 00:27:19,895 - Well, that is all for today, folks. 619 00:27:20,295 --> 00:27:21,335 Remember, you can reach us 620 00:27:21,355 --> 00:27:24,335 by email podcast@westernpriorities.org. 621 00:27:24,845 --> 00:27:26,855 Also track us down on Threads 622 00:27:26,955 --> 00:27:28,895 or TikTok, where Sterling continues 623 00:27:28,895 --> 00:27:31,975 to do a spectacular job telling complicated stories 624 00:27:32,035 --> 00:27:33,055 in less than 90 seconds. 625 00:27:33,715 --> 00:27:34,775 We always love to hear from you. 626 00:27:34,915 --> 00:27:36,895 Uh, of course, if you have thoughts about any of this 627 00:27:37,195 --> 00:27:40,215 or public lands in general, send them our way. 628 00:27:41,275 --> 00:27:42,975 - Thanks to Kristen for her time today 629 00:27:42,975 --> 00:27:45,935 and her tireless advocacy for Alaska Public Lands. 630 00:27:46,315 --> 00:27:49,335 And as always, thank you for listening to the landscape.