1 00:00:00,105 --> 00:00:00,145 - 2 00:00:06,695 --> 00:00:09,545 - Welcome to the Landscape, your show about America's parks 3 00:00:09,545 --> 00:00:10,705 and public lands. 4 00:00:10,765 --> 00:00:13,225 I'm Erin Weiss with the Center for Western Priorities. 5 00:00:13,225 --> 00:00:14,545 Having a great week here in Denver. 6 00:00:15,085 --> 00:00:16,985 - And I'm Kate Retinger in Salt Lake City. 7 00:00:17,595 --> 00:00:20,185 We've got two folks from the Wilderness Society here today 8 00:00:20,185 --> 00:00:22,465 to help us break down the big changes announced 9 00:00:22,485 --> 00:00:24,705 for public land management in the past few weeks. 10 00:00:25,115 --> 00:00:27,105 These are really exciting rulemakings 11 00:00:27,105 --> 00:00:29,785 or regulatory changes that will help protect 12 00:00:29,845 --> 00:00:32,425 and bring balance to public land management everywhere from 13 00:00:32,425 --> 00:00:33,465 New Mexico to Alaska. 14 00:00:33,885 --> 00:00:36,505 So stay tuned for that. But first, let's do the news. 15 00:00:37,895 --> 00:00:40,905 - Well, today's episode really is all news, 16 00:00:41,045 --> 00:00:43,265 but there has been so much happening, 17 00:00:43,265 --> 00:00:44,425 especially over the last week. 18 00:00:44,535 --> 00:00:46,105 There's a little bonus news 19 00:00:46,105 --> 00:00:47,665 before we get to all the other news. 20 00:00:48,005 --> 00:00:50,905 Uh, and that is the conservation atlas. 21 00:00:51,285 --> 00:00:54,185 The Biden administration finally released its first draft 22 00:00:54,285 --> 00:00:55,945 of the Atlas last week. 23 00:00:56,695 --> 00:01:00,905 This is a, an online atlas that tracks land 24 00:01:00,965 --> 00:01:03,745 and water protections across the United States. 25 00:01:04,285 --> 00:01:06,745 Now, what got released last week is a beta 26 00:01:06,745 --> 00:01:07,865 version of the Atlas. 27 00:01:07,895 --> 00:01:09,945 It's going to take a long time to get there 28 00:01:09,945 --> 00:01:13,505 because they are collecting conservation information across 29 00:01:14,585 --> 00:01:17,705 national, state, local, and private lands. 30 00:01:17,765 --> 00:01:19,625 It is a huge data lift, 31 00:01:19,965 --> 00:01:23,505 but this is a, an incredible first start. 32 00:01:23,855 --> 00:01:26,625 Just having this framework going forward is 33 00:01:26,665 --> 00:01:27,785 a huge step forward. 34 00:01:28,605 --> 00:01:31,585 And what this means in the long term is that it is going 35 00:01:31,585 --> 00:01:36,545 to allow us to put a concrete number on how close America is 36 00:01:36,845 --> 00:01:39,545 to achieving President Biden's America. 37 00:01:39,645 --> 00:01:44,025 The beautiful goal of protecting 30% of America's lands 38 00:01:44,025 --> 00:01:46,145 and America's waters by 2030. 39 00:01:46,615 --> 00:01:47,665 That is a goal, of course, 40 00:01:47,665 --> 00:01:50,065 that comes straight from scientists like Dr. 41 00:01:50,085 --> 00:01:52,505 En Sala, who, who we've talked to before. 42 00:01:53,335 --> 00:01:56,905 They are the ones warning that without protecting 30% 43 00:01:56,965 --> 00:02:00,185 of the world's intact nature, we are at risk 44 00:02:00,245 --> 00:02:03,305 of ecosystem collapse on, on the, the precipice 45 00:02:03,605 --> 00:02:05,585 of a sixth mass extinction. 46 00:02:06,005 --> 00:02:08,465 So the first step, of course, to protecting 30 47 00:02:09,045 --> 00:02:10,105 is counting the 30 48 00:02:10,445 --> 00:02:13,305 and getting this atlas out the door saying, here's 49 00:02:13,305 --> 00:02:14,425 how we are going to get there 50 00:02:14,445 --> 00:02:16,585 and measure our progress, uh, 51 00:02:16,685 --> 00:02:18,745 is an incredibly important first step. 52 00:02:22,115 --> 00:02:24,065 - We're here today with the Wilderness Society's, 53 00:02:24,065 --> 00:02:26,585 Michael Carroll and Justin Muse to talk through a handful 54 00:02:26,585 --> 00:02:27,825 of federal regulations 55 00:02:27,965 --> 00:02:30,905 or rulemakings that finalized this month. 56 00:02:31,285 --> 00:02:33,225 Justin is the Government Relations Director 57 00:02:33,225 --> 00:02:34,265 at the Wilderness Society. 58 00:02:34,285 --> 00:02:35,945 Justin, thank you so much for being here. 59 00:02:36,565 --> 00:02:38,705 - Thanks, Kate. Thanks, Aaron. Good to be with you again. 60 00:02:39,765 --> 00:02:41,025 - And Michael is a campaign 61 00:02:41,265 --> 00:02:42,345 director at the Wilderness Society. 62 00:02:42,345 --> 00:02:43,345 Michael, thank you. 63 00:02:44,175 --> 00:02:45,765 - Thank you guys. Nice to be with you. 64 00:02:46,605 --> 00:02:49,665 - All right, so these rules touch on everything from methane 65 00:02:49,665 --> 00:02:52,305 waste on public land to ecosystem restoration 66 00:02:52,445 --> 00:02:54,025 to caribou herds in Alaska. 67 00:02:54,415 --> 00:02:57,025 It's been a very exciting month for all of us, 68 00:02:57,485 --> 00:02:59,845 and by exciting, I mean, um, lots of work, 69 00:03:00,025 --> 00:03:02,645 but really, really cool stuff coming out of it. 70 00:03:03,065 --> 00:03:05,365 Um, some of these rules are already in effect 71 00:03:05,545 --> 00:03:07,045 and some will take effect soon. 72 00:03:07,265 --> 00:03:08,645 So let's talk about 'em. 73 00:03:09,035 --> 00:03:12,645 Michael, going to you first, I know I just kind 74 00:03:12,645 --> 00:03:14,205 of covered this, but will you tell us 75 00:03:14,205 --> 00:03:16,525 what the main rules affecting public lands are 76 00:03:16,635 --> 00:03:18,765 that have come out in the past month or so? 77 00:03:20,225 --> 00:03:22,085 - Wow. Uh, well, the list is long 78 00:03:22,425 --> 00:03:24,285 and Justin should speak to the details, 79 00:03:24,345 --> 00:03:25,765 so I will hand it over to him 80 00:03:25,985 --> 00:03:28,325 as we get into the nitty gritty here. 81 00:03:28,385 --> 00:03:31,045 But, uh, the BLM, I mean, first, I think the place 82 00:03:31,045 --> 00:03:35,205 to start here, Kate, is really, um, with, uh, applause 83 00:03:35,665 --> 00:03:38,965 and gratitude and thanks to the Biden administration 84 00:03:39,265 --> 00:03:42,285 and the BLM in particular for having the vision 85 00:03:42,305 --> 00:03:45,525 and the courage to step up, to actually enact 86 00:03:46,145 --> 00:03:50,165 and do the process, the long process that it takes, um, 87 00:03:50,225 --> 00:03:51,445 to get these new rules 88 00:03:51,465 --> 00:03:54,045 and regulations in place, um, 89 00:03:54,895 --> 00:03:56,485 taken together as a whole. 90 00:03:56,875 --> 00:04:01,565 They amount to a significant change for the agency in terms 91 00:04:01,625 --> 00:04:03,685 of focusing on conservation 92 00:04:03,865 --> 00:04:07,685 and really set us up as, uh, Westerners 93 00:04:07,825 --> 00:04:10,365 and across this country to really meet the challenges 94 00:04:10,365 --> 00:04:11,365 of the climate crisis 95 00:04:11,705 --> 00:04:12,725 and the nature crisis 96 00:04:12,725 --> 00:04:14,765 that we've been facing across the West. 97 00:04:15,265 --> 00:04:18,445 The rules include, uh, A BLM methane rule, 98 00:04:19,165 --> 00:04:21,965 a new rule on renewables, an oil 99 00:04:21,985 --> 00:04:25,125 and gas rule, the public lands rule, which is near 100 00:04:25,125 --> 00:04:29,005 and dear to my heart, and been my main focus, the NPRA rule 101 00:04:29,265 --> 00:04:31,245 and a number of other provisions 102 00:04:31,245 --> 00:04:33,245 that they've enacted over the last few months. 103 00:04:33,385 --> 00:04:37,405 So significant rulemakings across the board that will change 104 00:04:38,005 --> 00:04:41,165 a lot of how the BLM approaches their management 105 00:04:41,165 --> 00:04:43,725 of public lands and shift us towards, um, 106 00:04:44,365 --> 00:04:47,165 a sustainable future that hopefully we can take delivery on. 107 00:04:47,715 --> 00:04:51,485 - Alright, so Justin, we've talked about these things kind 108 00:04:51,485 --> 00:04:53,605 of interchangeably as rule makings 109 00:04:53,665 --> 00:04:57,245 or regulations from a technical standpoint, 110 00:04:57,435 --> 00:04:58,685 what are these things 111 00:04:58,685 --> 00:05:01,405 that have just come into effect over the last month and 112 00:05:01,425 --> 00:05:04,365 and how do they, how are they created? They're not laws, 113 00:05:05,175 --> 00:05:06,175 - Right? 114 00:05:06,175 --> 00:05:06,565 That's that's right, Aaron. 115 00:05:06,945 --> 00:05:11,165 Um, so just to, to, uh, differentiate rule 116 00:05:11,735 --> 00:05:13,685 rulemaking and regulation. 117 00:05:14,385 --> 00:05:16,645 So a rulemaking is the process 118 00:05:16,785 --> 00:05:18,845 of creating a rule or a regulation. 119 00:05:19,345 --> 00:05:23,245 Um, it's governed by the Administrative Procedure Act. 120 00:05:23,625 --> 00:05:25,325 Uh, it includes a notice 121 00:05:25,585 --> 00:05:27,805 and, uh, public comment period, 122 00:05:28,565 --> 00:05:32,605 a response from the administration, from the agency, um, 123 00:05:32,865 --> 00:05:35,845 to public comment, uh, and then finalization. 124 00:05:36,465 --> 00:05:39,805 Um, and we saw these rules get finalized in the last two 125 00:05:39,805 --> 00:05:41,525 weeks or so that we'll discuss today. 126 00:05:42,025 --> 00:05:44,365 Um, so that's sort of the last step in 127 00:05:44,365 --> 00:05:45,925 that rulemaking process. 128 00:05:46,745 --> 00:05:47,765 Um, rule 129 00:05:47,905 --> 00:05:50,885 and regulation, those are pretty synonymous, 130 00:05:50,885 --> 00:05:52,165 interchangeable terms. 131 00:05:52,785 --> 00:05:57,165 Um, but essentially what those are, um, is, uh, 132 00:05:57,305 --> 00:06:02,165 that's an agency, uh, carrying out, um, 133 00:06:02,775 --> 00:06:05,645 their authority as delegated by Congress. 134 00:06:06,145 --> 00:06:09,525 Um, so it's how they implement statute, um, 135 00:06:09,705 --> 00:06:13,165 and how they, uh, work from day to day, uh, 136 00:06:13,185 --> 00:06:14,405 to, to carry out their mission. 137 00:06:16,025 --> 00:06:19,275 - Uh, with all of this happening within the last month, uh, 138 00:06:19,835 --> 00:06:22,675 everyone in the public lands community writ large, has 139 00:06:23,295 --> 00:06:27,075 needed to specialize to, to bone up on certain rules so 140 00:06:27,075 --> 00:06:29,315 that we could be talked knowledgeably about them, 141 00:06:29,315 --> 00:06:30,355 especially to reporters. 142 00:06:30,665 --> 00:06:35,635 Kate, you, uh, really read up on the BMS methane 143 00:06:35,695 --> 00:06:37,075 and oil and gas rules. 144 00:06:37,665 --> 00:06:39,355 Walk us through what they do 145 00:06:39,495 --> 00:06:42,515 and that, that methane rule in particular, there was a bit 146 00:06:42,515 --> 00:06:45,715 of confusion on how what BLM is doing on methane fits in 147 00:06:45,715 --> 00:06:48,275 with what the EPA was also doing on 148 00:06:48,275 --> 00:06:49,435 methane, roughly at the same time. 149 00:06:50,655 --> 00:06:51,705 - Totally. Yeah. 150 00:06:52,015 --> 00:06:53,625 Lots , lots of oil 151 00:06:53,625 --> 00:06:55,145 and gas rules coming out all 152 00:06:55,145 --> 00:06:57,185 around the same time is always a good idea. 153 00:06:57,525 --> 00:07:00,265 Um, really makes it clear for the public . 154 00:07:00,335 --> 00:07:02,625 Just kidding. Um, but I'll try to help with that. 155 00:07:03,005 --> 00:07:06,065 So, um, yeah, the BLM put out a methane rule 156 00:07:06,065 --> 00:07:08,185 and then a few weeks later, an oil and gas rule. 157 00:07:08,255 --> 00:07:10,825 Obviously, methane is gas, um, 158 00:07:11,365 --> 00:07:12,945 but the methane rule, we'll start there. 159 00:07:13,405 --> 00:07:17,865 It, um, really the, the sort of groundbreaking thing 160 00:07:17,865 --> 00:07:21,345 that it does is it puts a royalty on wasted natural gas. 161 00:07:21,445 --> 00:07:22,585 And so when oil 162 00:07:22,585 --> 00:07:25,145 and gas drillers, um, when they drill for oil, 163 00:07:25,145 --> 00:07:27,065 oftentimes they hit natural gas 164 00:07:27,325 --> 00:07:29,865 and it's oftentimes treated as like a waste product, 165 00:07:30,085 --> 00:07:32,265 and they just sort of set it on fire 166 00:07:32,285 --> 00:07:33,665 and, which is called flaring. 167 00:07:33,765 --> 00:07:34,865 Um, and if you ever Dr. 168 00:07:34,875 --> 00:07:37,025 Drive through like an oil and gas field in the west, 169 00:07:37,025 --> 00:07:40,345 and you see those, um, pipes with flames coming out 170 00:07:40,345 --> 00:07:41,465 of the top, that's a flare. 171 00:07:41,805 --> 00:07:43,225 And then venting is when they just 172 00:07:44,335 --> 00:07:45,905 release it directly into the air. 173 00:07:46,045 --> 00:07:48,865 And the reason this is a problem is methane is a really 174 00:07:48,865 --> 00:07:49,945 potent greenhouse gas. 175 00:07:50,485 --> 00:07:54,985 Um, so the BBL m decided to start trying to charge companies 176 00:07:55,085 --> 00:07:56,465 for the gas that they waste. 177 00:07:56,765 --> 00:08:00,665 Um, now by the M'S own projections, they expect to bring in 178 00:08:00,665 --> 00:08:02,785 around $50 million a year from this new 179 00:08:02,805 --> 00:08:03,825 fee, which is awesome. 180 00:08:04,245 --> 00:08:08,105 Um, and, um, uh, 181 00:08:08,485 --> 00:08:12,425 it also will hopefully cut down on the amount of natural gas 182 00:08:12,425 --> 00:08:15,465 that's wasted and encourage these companies to, um, 183 00:08:15,765 --> 00:08:18,985 direct more of that gas into li like pipelines 184 00:08:18,985 --> 00:08:21,225 that they can actually sell so they can sell the gas. 185 00:08:21,805 --> 00:08:25,985 Um, and the this rule also included like increasing 186 00:08:26,215 --> 00:08:30,185 increased, um, like detection requirements so 187 00:08:30,185 --> 00:08:32,185 that companies actually have to, to 188 00:08:32,725 --> 00:08:35,025 to know whether they're leaking natural gas 189 00:08:35,085 --> 00:08:36,745 and methane into the atmosphere, 190 00:08:36,885 --> 00:08:38,745 and then of course, charge them for it. 191 00:08:39,005 --> 00:08:41,625 So how that gets implemented is, I think, 192 00:08:42,345 --> 00:08:44,025 a little bit up in the air and to be seen. 193 00:08:44,125 --> 00:08:47,065 But as Justin, I wanna point this out, as Justin mentioned, 194 00:08:47,245 --> 00:08:49,785 um, these rulemakings are not new laws. 195 00:08:49,795 --> 00:08:52,705 These are all things that the agencies are enabled 196 00:08:52,725 --> 00:08:54,505 to do by current law. 197 00:08:54,725 --> 00:08:57,725 And the Inflation Reduction Act actually did have this 198 00:08:57,725 --> 00:08:58,805 methane fee in it. 199 00:08:58,865 --> 00:09:02,605 And so this is just the agency figuring out how to, how 200 00:09:02,625 --> 00:09:05,325 to comport with the inflation reduction Act. 201 00:09:05,325 --> 00:09:08,085 It's not a new law. It's not, they're not going rogue. 202 00:09:08,385 --> 00:09:09,645 Um, the oil 203 00:09:09,645 --> 00:09:13,765 and gas rule, which followed the methane rule, is, um, 204 00:09:14,315 --> 00:09:17,285 applies more to the actual act of drilling on land. 205 00:09:17,505 --> 00:09:21,365 Um, and it again, codifies a lot of things 206 00:09:21,365 --> 00:09:23,365 that were passed in the Inflation Reduction Act. 207 00:09:23,385 --> 00:09:25,445 So again, the agency is not just creating 208 00:09:25,445 --> 00:09:26,565 things out of thin air. 209 00:09:27,025 --> 00:09:30,845 Um, and it did also increase bonding fees. 210 00:09:30,905 --> 00:09:32,725 And bonding fees are the amount of money 211 00:09:32,725 --> 00:09:35,085 that companies put up ahead of drilling. 212 00:09:35,345 --> 00:09:38,365 Um, and essentially like in a security deposit, um, 213 00:09:38,595 --> 00:09:42,525 that is money that can be used to clean up the well, um, 214 00:09:42,585 --> 00:09:44,005 if the company goes bankrupt 215 00:09:44,145 --> 00:09:46,645 or just fails to clean it up themself. 216 00:09:47,225 --> 00:09:49,925 Um, so that rule is really exciting. 217 00:09:49,925 --> 00:09:51,285 It raised the bonding rate 218 00:09:51,285 --> 00:09:55,645 for an individual well from $10,000 to $150,000. 219 00:09:55,905 --> 00:09:58,845 So that rate hadn't been updated since the 1960s. 220 00:09:59,185 --> 00:10:01,925 Um, everyone who's listening knows 221 00:10:01,925 --> 00:10:04,285 that things have gotten more expensive since the 1960s. 222 00:10:04,505 --> 00:10:07,485 So it was just a common sense adjustment really to make sure 223 00:10:07,485 --> 00:10:09,085 that we're com oil 224 00:10:09,085 --> 00:10:11,325 and gas companies are cleaning up their own messes. 225 00:10:11,785 --> 00:10:13,525 Um, and then quickly I'll touch on the EPA 226 00:10:13,525 --> 00:10:14,725 methane rule, which you mentioned. 227 00:10:14,725 --> 00:10:16,005 This rule is really exciting 228 00:10:16,005 --> 00:10:19,085 because, um, the M'S Methane rule only applies 229 00:10:19,145 --> 00:10:21,605 to drilling on federal public lands. 230 00:10:21,705 --> 00:10:26,325 Um, the methane EPA rule, sorry, the EPA methane rule, um, 231 00:10:26,435 --> 00:10:29,925 applies to all sources of methane, well, not all sources 232 00:10:29,925 --> 00:10:32,085 of methane sources of methane from oil 233 00:10:32,085 --> 00:10:35,045 and gas production, um, no matter where they're located. 234 00:10:35,185 --> 00:10:39,405 So this could be, you know, um, on private land, state land, 235 00:10:39,625 --> 00:10:41,205 um, processing facilities. 236 00:10:41,665 --> 00:10:44,365 And it essentially increases the requirements 237 00:10:44,385 --> 00:10:45,485 for leak detection. 238 00:10:45,825 --> 00:10:48,685 So, um, they're gonna catch more of these methane leaks, 239 00:10:48,685 --> 00:10:50,245 and then it increases requirements 240 00:10:50,345 --> 00:10:52,725 for addressing those leaks when they're found. 241 00:10:53,225 --> 00:10:56,165 Um, so that will probably have a huge impact on the amount 242 00:10:56,165 --> 00:10:57,525 of methane that's being wasted 243 00:10:57,705 --> 00:10:59,485 and contributing to climate change. 244 00:10:59,945 --> 00:11:01,845 Um, as will the other two rules. 245 00:11:01,945 --> 00:11:04,165 Oh, one other thing I wanna mention about the oil 246 00:11:04,165 --> 00:11:07,165 and gas rule, um, is that it actually directs the BLM 247 00:11:07,505 --> 00:11:09,565 to lease public lands for oil 248 00:11:09,585 --> 00:11:12,765 and gas drilling that are already near disturbed areas 249 00:11:12,985 --> 00:11:16,405 and away from important habitat and recreational areas. 250 00:11:16,665 --> 00:11:18,925 So that's really just a smart way 251 00:11:18,925 --> 00:11:20,405 to use our federal resources. 252 00:11:20,705 --> 00:11:23,605 Um, so yeah, these rules are very exciting. 253 00:11:23,905 --> 00:11:26,365 Um, and, um, we'll, we'll be looking 254 00:11:26,365 --> 00:11:27,525 to see how they're implemented. 255 00:11:28,335 --> 00:11:31,375 - I, I, I was gonna say that we are already seeing the 256 00:11:31,375 --> 00:11:34,255 effects of the inflation reduction Act on the oil 257 00:11:34,255 --> 00:11:36,495 and gas leasing program Right away. 258 00:11:36,515 --> 00:11:40,655 The IRA put a $5 per acre fee 259 00:11:40,795 --> 00:11:42,855 for nominating lands for leasing 260 00:11:42,875 --> 00:11:45,575 before companies could nominate lands for free. 261 00:11:45,915 --> 00:11:50,055 And that resulted in a whole lot of pointless nominations 262 00:11:50,055 --> 00:11:52,975 of stuff that companies weren't interested in, 263 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:54,525 would never end up drilling on. 264 00:11:54,545 --> 00:11:56,285 And now that companies have 265 00:11:56,285 --> 00:11:58,245 to put up money on the front end, lo 266 00:11:58,245 --> 00:12:03,205 and behold, nominations have fallen dramatically, um, 267 00:12:03,595 --> 00:12:05,605 from the, the high in 2019 268 00:12:05,665 --> 00:12:07,605 of more than 4 million acres nominated 269 00:12:07,605 --> 00:12:08,645 in just one year there. 270 00:12:08,645 --> 00:12:11,685 During the Trump administration during the last year, 271 00:12:11,685 --> 00:12:14,325 during calendar year 2023, uh, 272 00:12:14,745 --> 00:12:18,685 we saw a 98% drop in, uh, 273 00:12:18,795 --> 00:12:21,125 overall nominations from the oil and gas industry. 274 00:12:21,425 --> 00:12:24,885 So that alone confirms what we've been saying all along, 275 00:12:24,885 --> 00:12:26,845 that the vast majority of public lands 276 00:12:26,845 --> 00:12:30,405 that will ever produce oil and gas have already been leased, 277 00:12:30,785 --> 00:12:34,325 and any future leasing is pretty marginal, uh, now 278 00:12:34,325 --> 00:12:36,805 that companies have to put up money on the front end, uh, 279 00:12:36,825 --> 00:12:38,365 to say they're interested in, 280 00:12:38,425 --> 00:12:39,845 in potentially drilling on something 281 00:12:39,845 --> 00:12:41,325 that has not already been leased. 282 00:12:42,185 --> 00:12:43,805 - Um, Justin, going to you next. 283 00:12:44,035 --> 00:12:45,885 Will you tell us about the renewable energy rule? 284 00:12:45,885 --> 00:12:48,405 I know that you've been focused on that. What does it do? 285 00:12:49,285 --> 00:12:51,315 - Thank you, Kate, uh, very much for the question. 286 00:12:51,535 --> 00:12:54,875 Um, so, uh, back on April 11th, the Bureau 287 00:12:54,875 --> 00:12:57,235 of Land Management issued its final, uh, 288 00:12:57,235 --> 00:12:58,995 renewable energy rule. 289 00:12:59,615 --> 00:13:04,035 Um, that rule, um, does a number of things, uh, 290 00:13:04,055 --> 00:13:05,315 to reduce barriers 291 00:13:05,415 --> 00:13:08,035 to responsible renewable energy deployment, 292 00:13:08,675 --> 00:13:11,395 specifically wind and solar energy deployment on 293 00:13:11,395 --> 00:13:12,555 federal public lands. 294 00:13:13,095 --> 00:13:16,315 Um, some of the, the barriers that we've heard, uh, to, 295 00:13:16,415 --> 00:13:20,515 to deployment have been that megawatt capacity fees, uh, 296 00:13:20,735 --> 00:13:23,395 and acreage rents, uh, that companies have to pay 297 00:13:23,495 --> 00:13:27,075 to develop on federal public lands are significantly higher 298 00:13:27,225 --> 00:13:30,555 than, uh, than they are on state and private land. 299 00:13:31,055 --> 00:13:34,515 Um, so this rule takes steps to, uh, to, 300 00:13:34,515 --> 00:13:36,115 to lower megawatt capacity fees 301 00:13:36,135 --> 00:13:39,115 and recalculate acreage rents, uh, in a way 302 00:13:39,115 --> 00:13:41,475 that will ultimately reduce costs and, uh, 303 00:13:41,655 --> 00:13:44,235 and spur hopefully, uh, more wind 304 00:13:44,395 --> 00:13:46,675 and solar deployment on federal public lands. 305 00:13:47,055 --> 00:13:50,515 Um, it also does another, uh, a few other important things, 306 00:13:50,815 --> 00:13:54,675 um, like extending the rights of way leases 307 00:13:54,675 --> 00:13:57,915 and grants from 30 years to 50 years, uh, 308 00:13:57,915 --> 00:14:01,035 which is more in alignment with how long, uh, wind 309 00:14:01,035 --> 00:14:03,275 and solar projects actually last. 310 00:14:03,815 --> 00:14:06,395 Um, and it allows the Bureau of Land Management 311 00:14:06,415 --> 00:14:09,795 to conduct non-competitive leases in the, uh, lowest 312 00:14:10,355 --> 00:14:12,395 conflict pre-screened areas when it 313 00:14:12,395 --> 00:14:13,515 is in the public interest. 314 00:14:14,055 --> 00:14:16,515 Um, back in 2012, the Bureau 315 00:14:16,515 --> 00:14:18,395 of Land Management identified a number 316 00:14:18,395 --> 00:14:21,195 of solar energy zones, um, you know, 317 00:14:21,195 --> 00:14:25,315 just over 300,000 acres worth of, of places that are, 318 00:14:25,735 --> 00:14:28,315 you know, appropriate for solar energy development. 319 00:14:28,775 --> 00:14:32,915 Um, and where, uh, you know, at the project level, uh, 320 00:14:33,195 --> 00:14:37,435 a a solar developer can, um, begin the process to develop 321 00:14:37,735 --> 00:14:41,115 and, uh, go through a kind of a streamlined process in order 322 00:14:41,115 --> 00:14:42,355 to get their project up and running. 323 00:14:42,975 --> 00:14:46,435 Um, you know, these places have been affirmatively confirmed 324 00:14:46,535 --> 00:14:49,555 to have fewer resource conflicts, conflicts with, uh, 325 00:14:49,575 --> 00:14:52,925 you know, habitats and cultural resources and, um, 326 00:14:53,265 --> 00:14:54,485 and are generally places 327 00:14:54,495 --> 00:14:57,765 where we really support solar development happening. 328 00:14:58,225 --> 00:15:01,725 Um, but that they are subject to competitive leases. 329 00:15:01,865 --> 00:15:04,605 And, and this is resulted in, you know, a lot 330 00:15:04,605 --> 00:15:08,525 of cases in industry, uh, avoiding, uh, developing there 331 00:15:08,525 --> 00:15:11,725 because that, that leads to upward bidding and, and, 332 00:15:11,785 --> 00:15:13,005 and costs increasing. 333 00:15:13,385 --> 00:15:16,245 So this, this just gives BLM the flexibility to, uh, 334 00:15:16,305 --> 00:15:18,885 to reduce costs by, you know, kind of on a case 335 00:15:18,905 --> 00:15:22,885 by case basis conducting, um, non-competitive auctions. 336 00:15:23,385 --> 00:15:27,005 Um, so, uh, so we're really pleased to see 337 00:15:27,005 --> 00:15:30,805 that we think it's going to ultimately lead to 338 00:15:31,635 --> 00:15:35,285 more responsible development, uh, of solar on public lands. 339 00:15:35,465 --> 00:15:37,645 Um, and we're excited to see this finalized. 340 00:15:38,185 --> 00:15:41,125 Um, and like Kate mentioned, you know, many of these rules, 341 00:15:41,195 --> 00:15:43,205 most actually all of these rules are, are based on, 342 00:15:43,305 --> 00:15:46,285 on statute that's been enacted by Congress. 343 00:15:46,825 --> 00:15:50,245 Um, this one is a piece of legis for, 344 00:15:50,785 --> 00:15:53,445 is taken from legislation that's been championed 345 00:15:53,505 --> 00:15:55,485 by folks on both sides of the aisle. 346 00:15:55,985 --> 00:16:00,485 Um, Paul Gosar in Arizona, Mike Levin in California, um, 347 00:16:00,485 --> 00:16:01,765 Martin Heinrich in New Mexico, 348 00:16:01,945 --> 00:16:04,885 and previously Martha McSally, also from Arizona, um, 349 00:16:05,345 --> 00:16:07,765 the Public Land Renewable Energy Development Act of, 350 00:16:07,905 --> 00:16:12,125 of 2019, a provision of it enabled the secretary to, 351 00:16:12,385 --> 00:16:14,125 um, to take these actions. 352 00:16:14,225 --> 00:16:17,205 And that specific provision was enacted as part of, uh, 353 00:16:17,505 --> 00:16:20,885 you know, year end omnibus appropriations language, uh, 354 00:16:20,905 --> 00:16:22,005 in 2021. 355 00:16:22,465 --> 00:16:25,365 Um, so again, happy to see it happen. 356 00:16:25,745 --> 00:16:29,565 Uh, you know, it's, um, it exists in statute, uh, 357 00:16:29,565 --> 00:16:30,885 this authority exists in statute, 358 00:16:31,065 --> 00:16:33,165 and we're excited to see BLM move forward with it. 359 00:16:34,035 --> 00:16:37,845 - Alright, let's get to, I think, what is for all 360 00:16:37,845 --> 00:16:41,645 of us here, the, the big ones, certainly the most exciting 361 00:16:42,355 --> 00:16:45,805 news, uh, to happen at BLM this year. 362 00:16:45,905 --> 00:16:50,125 And this is the public lands rule, uh, also known 363 00:16:50,125 --> 00:16:52,325 as the conservation and landscape health rule. 364 00:16:52,595 --> 00:16:56,005 Michael, this ha, this has been one of your babies here 365 00:16:56,005 --> 00:16:57,645 for the last however many years. 366 00:16:58,505 --> 00:17:01,325 Uh, before we get into what it does 367 00:17:01,345 --> 00:17:03,965 and why it's such a big deal, how are you feeling now 368 00:17:03,965 --> 00:17:05,285 that this thing is over the finish line? 369 00:17:05,905 --> 00:17:10,285 - Uh, tired, ? No, super excited. 370 00:17:10,485 --> 00:17:12,125 I mean, this is a long time coming 371 00:17:12,345 --> 00:17:15,125 and it's, it's well beyond just my tenure 372 00:17:15,715 --> 00:17:16,925 engaged in this work. 373 00:17:17,285 --> 00:17:19,845 I mean, this has been needed 374 00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:24,925 and, um, has been advocated for since 1976 when, 375 00:17:25,545 --> 00:17:26,645 uh, flipma, 376 00:17:26,865 --> 00:17:30,285 the Federal Lands Policy Management Act was enacted. 377 00:17:30,785 --> 00:17:33,405 Um, and the regulatory framework 378 00:17:33,625 --> 00:17:36,605 for conservation wasn't built out at that time. 379 00:17:37,545 --> 00:17:42,085 The rule that just passed, uh, last Thursday, uh, gives 380 00:17:42,745 --> 00:17:46,205 or actually puts in place that regulatory framework 381 00:17:46,225 --> 00:17:48,245 for the first time since the law was enacted. 382 00:17:48,585 --> 00:17:52,685 So it's a huge effort that's happened over generations 383 00:17:52,865 --> 00:17:55,845 of local communities and lawmakers 384 00:17:56,105 --> 00:17:58,325 and conservationists advocating for it. 385 00:17:58,585 --> 00:18:01,525 So it's a, a massive victory for the community, 386 00:18:01,785 --> 00:18:04,525 but also for folks who love to recreate 387 00:18:04,625 --> 00:18:08,645 and to out on BLM public lands and enjoy them. 388 00:18:09,515 --> 00:18:12,485 - Alright, so what does it do? 389 00:18:14,245 --> 00:18:16,285 - I think the director said it the most simply, 390 00:18:16,785 --> 00:18:18,645 and we can get into the gory details, 391 00:18:18,785 --> 00:18:20,125 but most simply as, yes, 392 00:18:20,125 --> 00:18:21,125 - Please get into the gory de 393 00:18:21,125 --> 00:18:22,125 details, that's why we're here. 394 00:18:22,625 --> 00:18:23,645 All the gory details, 395 00:18:24,535 --> 00:18:25,535 - We'll do it. 396 00:18:25,535 --> 00:18:27,085 Uh, the director first 397 00:18:27,105 --> 00:18:29,445 and foremost said, look, this protects the best, 398 00:18:29,805 --> 00:18:32,405 restores the rest, and gives the agency the ability 399 00:18:32,425 --> 00:18:33,645 to make smart decisions. 400 00:18:34,305 --> 00:18:35,805 That's the simple answer. 401 00:18:36,105 --> 00:18:39,645 The long-winded answer is just this, um, it, 402 00:18:39,645 --> 00:18:41,965 for the first time directs local managers 403 00:18:41,965 --> 00:18:46,645 to prioritize ecosystem and manage for ecosystem resilience. 404 00:18:47,465 --> 00:18:50,045 It offers up direction on how to do that 405 00:18:50,305 --> 00:18:54,485 by inventorying regularly intactness 406 00:18:54,785 --> 00:18:56,925 of BLM lands, so we can understand 407 00:18:57,335 --> 00:18:59,445 where are those habitat corridors, 408 00:18:59,745 --> 00:19:01,525 how does the landscape fit together, 409 00:19:01,855 --> 00:19:05,005 where are there developments that we need to manage around 410 00:19:05,585 --> 00:19:06,725 to protect those areas? 411 00:19:07,385 --> 00:19:09,285 It also calls out land health 412 00:19:09,505 --> 00:19:11,765 and managing for land health standards. 413 00:19:11,865 --> 00:19:15,405 So it actually directs local managers to say, 414 00:19:15,515 --> 00:19:18,805 what condition is the landscape that I manage in, 415 00:19:19,105 --> 00:19:21,285 and what do we need to do to actually address 416 00:19:21,285 --> 00:19:22,365 that land health? 417 00:19:22,705 --> 00:19:24,685 And then it offers up a couple of tools 418 00:19:24,865 --> 00:19:28,285 and recommendations for how to achieve land health 419 00:19:28,585 --> 00:19:30,765 and to preserve intech. 420 00:19:31,385 --> 00:19:34,445 And those are areas of critical environmental concern. 421 00:19:35,025 --> 00:19:36,485 Um, so identifying 422 00:19:36,505 --> 00:19:38,525 and protecting areas as areas 423 00:19:38,545 --> 00:19:40,605 of CRI critical environmental concern, 424 00:19:40,645 --> 00:19:42,045 which the agency can do. 425 00:19:42,145 --> 00:19:46,285 In fact, it's the only tool called out in flipma, um, 426 00:19:46,505 --> 00:19:51,085 as a tool to be used and then litigate or, uh, restoration 427 00:19:51,265 --> 00:19:52,965 and mitigation leases it 428 00:19:53,065 --> 00:19:57,405 and, um, creates a tool for the agency to use, 429 00:19:58,065 --> 00:20:02,325 um, for, uh, with communities to be able to restore lands 430 00:20:02,325 --> 00:20:05,725 that have been degraded or to do mitigation work. 431 00:20:06,265 --> 00:20:09,285 Say there's a solar development or an oil, oil 432 00:20:09,285 --> 00:20:10,325 and gas development, 433 00:20:10,345 --> 00:20:12,485 and they need to do compensatory mitigation 434 00:20:12,505 --> 00:20:14,205 around their development. 435 00:20:14,555 --> 00:20:16,805 This gives the agency the ability to do 436 00:20:16,805 --> 00:20:18,645 that right on BLM lands 437 00:20:18,645 --> 00:20:20,005 and to work with those folks 438 00:20:20,545 --> 00:20:23,485 to do compensatory mitigation in those particular places. 439 00:20:24,225 --> 00:20:27,605 So the rule itself, um, you can break it down pretty simply, 440 00:20:28,275 --> 00:20:30,925 it's really giving direction to local managers so 441 00:20:30,925 --> 00:20:32,165 that when they're doing planning 442 00:20:32,705 --> 00:20:36,005 and developing new management schemes for the lands 443 00:20:36,165 --> 00:20:39,485 that they manage, that they have the conservation tools in 444 00:20:39,485 --> 00:20:40,845 their toolbox to be able 445 00:20:40,945 --> 00:20:43,685 to enact conservation on those landscapes. 446 00:20:44,225 --> 00:20:47,005 - Do we know yet what these restoration 447 00:20:47,145 --> 00:20:50,565 and mitigation leases are gonna look like in practice once 448 00:20:50,565 --> 00:20:55,325 this law, this rule goes into effect in, uh, 30 ish days? 449 00:20:56,155 --> 00:20:59,205 What do we, what kind of proposals do you think we might see 450 00:20:59,585 --> 00:21:01,365 in terms of restoration mitigation? 451 00:21:01,365 --> 00:21:02,605 Who are the players gonna be? I 452 00:21:02,605 --> 00:21:03,805 - Mean, I think you're gonna see a lot of, 453 00:21:03,945 --> 00:21:06,325 and you've heard this in some of the response 454 00:21:06,545 --> 00:21:09,205 to the actual announcement of the final rule, 455 00:21:09,425 --> 00:21:11,965 you're gonna see a lot of local communities who have wanted 456 00:21:11,965 --> 00:21:15,285 to restore their watersheds in their backyards, working 457 00:21:15,315 --> 00:21:18,685 with the BLM hand in glove to take out restoration leases, 458 00:21:18,685 --> 00:21:21,285 to have some certainty around the investments 459 00:21:21,285 --> 00:21:23,045 that those local communities are gonna make 460 00:21:24,025 --> 00:21:27,965 in restoring a watershed, for example, um, 461 00:21:28,265 --> 00:21:29,445 on BLM lands. 462 00:21:29,445 --> 00:21:30,965 That, that those lands aren't going 463 00:21:30,965 --> 00:21:33,525 to be developed into the future, that they can work 464 00:21:33,525 --> 00:21:37,205 with the agency to say, for this X amount of time, uh, 465 00:21:37,235 --> 00:21:39,165 this is gonna be a restoration project 466 00:21:39,265 --> 00:21:40,365 and we're gonna invest in it. 467 00:21:40,365 --> 00:21:43,085 So local municipalities will be engaged in that. 468 00:21:43,565 --> 00:21:45,125 I think you'll see, uh, hunting 469 00:21:45,185 --> 00:21:48,245 and fishing organizations, there's already some examples 470 00:21:48,255 --> 00:21:52,045 where hunting and fishing organizations across the west have 471 00:21:52,045 --> 00:21:55,045 worked with the federal agencies to do restoration projects. 472 00:21:55,355 --> 00:21:57,645 This just adds some more clarity around those 473 00:21:57,745 --> 00:22:00,005 and certainty for those entities to do it. 474 00:22:00,415 --> 00:22:03,485 State governments, I think, will be engaged in doing some 475 00:22:03,485 --> 00:22:05,085 of this restoration into the future. 476 00:22:05,785 --> 00:22:08,885 Um, and then, you know, ultimately there are, 477 00:22:09,345 --> 00:22:12,165 is the opportunity for conservation organizations. 478 00:22:12,505 --> 00:22:15,165 Say you've got your, like for example, here in Durango 479 00:22:15,165 --> 00:22:18,245 where I live, uh, you have the San Juan Citizens Alliance 480 00:22:18,275 --> 00:22:21,165 that worked long and hard on Hermosa Creek 481 00:22:21,385 --> 00:22:23,445 and the Hermosa Creek wilderness proposal. 482 00:22:23,875 --> 00:22:26,165 Well, if there's a need for restoration in the, 483 00:22:26,345 --> 00:22:29,645 in the Hermosa Creek drainage, um, you could see a scenario 484 00:22:29,645 --> 00:22:31,925 where local conservation organizations could work 485 00:22:31,925 --> 00:22:34,405 with the agency to actually do those restoration projects. 486 00:22:34,825 --> 00:22:37,285 So, um, we think that there's a lot of opportunity 487 00:22:37,285 --> 00:22:39,245 around the restoration component of this, 488 00:22:39,265 --> 00:22:40,645 and that it's a huge boon 489 00:22:40,665 --> 00:22:42,765 for local communities across the west. 490 00:22:43,215 --> 00:22:44,685 - Thank you for, for fleshing that out. 491 00:22:44,685 --> 00:22:46,085 I think, I think that's one of the, the things 492 00:22:46,085 --> 00:22:47,565 that folks had trouble envisioning. 493 00:22:47,565 --> 00:22:49,725 So laying that out is, is really great. 494 00:22:51,845 --> 00:22:53,625 Justin, I wanna bring you back in here. 495 00:22:54,175 --> 00:22:55,545 Give us a sense of how, 496 00:22:55,605 --> 00:22:58,945 how the public lands rule is important in context 497 00:22:59,375 --> 00:23:00,785 with all of these other rules. 498 00:23:00,805 --> 00:23:02,865 You've got stuff happening on renewables, 499 00:23:03,045 --> 00:23:05,305 you've got responsible oil and gas rules. 500 00:23:05,405 --> 00:23:09,985 So how does the conservation part of this fit in along 501 00:23:09,985 --> 00:23:11,305 with everything else that we're seeing this month? 502 00:23:13,095 --> 00:23:14,905 - Yeah, I, I think that there is a broader 503 00:23:14,905 --> 00:23:16,065 narrative here, for sure. 504 00:23:16,485 --> 00:23:20,825 And, um, and what we've noticed over the past, you know, uh, 505 00:23:22,055 --> 00:23:24,345 decades, uh, you know, up to a century, is 506 00:23:24,345 --> 00:23:27,505 that public lands, uh, have been, uh, managed 507 00:23:27,525 --> 00:23:28,825 to prioritize extraction. 508 00:23:29,165 --> 00:23:31,985 Um, there have been defacto subsidies for oil 509 00:23:31,985 --> 00:23:34,825 and gas leasing and drilling on federal public lands, 510 00:23:34,925 --> 00:23:37,625 you know, as far back as there's been oil and gas leasing 511 00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:39,065 and drilling on publics at all. 512 00:23:39,685 --> 00:23:42,425 Um, and what these rules do is they, you know, 513 00:23:42,515 --> 00:23:43,985 bring the costs of oil 514 00:23:43,985 --> 00:23:48,725 and gas leasing up, um, in order to account for, you know, 515 00:23:48,725 --> 00:23:52,445 some of that, um, some of that defacto subsidy 516 00:23:52,445 --> 00:23:54,165 and ensure that, you know, state 517 00:23:54,165 --> 00:23:56,605 and federal taxpayers get a fairer return for the use 518 00:23:56,605 --> 00:23:58,165 of their federal public lands. 519 00:23:58,585 --> 00:24:01,325 Um, and we also see, uh, you know, some 520 00:24:01,885 --> 00:24:03,645 movement in the other direction with renewable energy 521 00:24:03,645 --> 00:24:06,765 to make it a little bit easier to develop, uh, you know, 522 00:24:06,765 --> 00:24:09,645 wind and solar on federal public lands, putting them kind 523 00:24:09,645 --> 00:24:11,485 of on a level, level or playing field. 524 00:24:12,065 --> 00:24:14,485 Um, and with the conservation rule that, uh, that, 525 00:24:14,485 --> 00:24:18,205 that Michael just spoke extremely eloquently about, um, 526 00:24:19,345 --> 00:24:22,645 you're putting conservation on that same plane. 527 00:24:23,065 --> 00:24:26,245 Um, so now all of the multiple uses, um, 528 00:24:26,245 --> 00:24:28,085 that BLM lands can be used 529 00:24:28,145 --> 00:24:30,165 for are on a leveler playing field. 530 00:24:30,345 --> 00:24:33,925 Um, and oil and gas isn't, um, you know, placed 531 00:24:33,975 --> 00:24:35,445 above any other use. 532 00:24:36,095 --> 00:24:39,685 - Aaron, let me jump in on that too, just to, um, put it, 533 00:24:40,185 --> 00:24:43,885 um, plainly, the BLM 534 00:24:43,905 --> 00:24:45,965 and the Biden administration have quietly 535 00:24:46,705 --> 00:24:50,245 put in place the regulatory tools that Americans need 536 00:24:50,345 --> 00:24:53,965 to meet the climate crisis and the nature crisis head on. 537 00:24:54,465 --> 00:24:57,165 Um, we haven't had the regulatory framework 538 00:24:57,165 --> 00:25:00,565 and the changes that we needed to actually, uh, 539 00:25:00,755 --> 00:25:03,565 address climate change on federal public lands. 540 00:25:03,875 --> 00:25:06,205 What has happened over the last few months, 541 00:25:06,265 --> 00:25:07,805 and we can't say it loud enough 542 00:25:07,945 --> 00:25:09,805 or shout it from the rooftops enough, 543 00:25:10,345 --> 00:25:13,805 has given us the ability to make public lands part 544 00:25:13,805 --> 00:25:14,845 of the solution 545 00:25:15,105 --> 00:25:16,885 to the climate crisis in the nature 546 00:25:16,885 --> 00:25:18,325 crisis across this country. 547 00:25:18,705 --> 00:25:21,005 And that thanks to the Biden administration and the BLM 548 00:25:21,745 --> 00:25:25,035 - Awesome, thank you guys for putting that in, um, context 549 00:25:25,295 --> 00:25:28,075 and sort of just saying it plainly for people, 550 00:25:28,075 --> 00:25:30,715 because I think even I sitting here listening 551 00:25:30,715 --> 00:25:33,515 and having worked on these, um, don't know if I fully 552 00:25:34,255 --> 00:25:36,835 com comprehended the, the enormity of it. 553 00:25:36,975 --> 00:25:41,155 So, um, appreciate that description, Aaron, going to you. 554 00:25:41,295 --> 00:25:43,995 Um, one last really big thing that happened is 555 00:25:43,995 --> 00:25:46,475 that the administration protected a huge 556 00:25:46,475 --> 00:25:47,715 amount of land in Alaska. 557 00:25:48,415 --> 00:25:50,155 Um, will you tell us a little bit about that? 558 00:25:50,195 --> 00:25:51,915 I think it's the, the National Petroleum 559 00:25:51,915 --> 00:25:53,155 Reserve Alaska Rule. 560 00:25:53,945 --> 00:25:57,275 - Yeah. This is, uh, or also known as the NPRA. 561 00:25:57,935 --> 00:26:01,875 Uh, and this is a, again, a very big deal 562 00:26:01,875 --> 00:26:05,915 because the NPRA is a huge swath of Alaska, 563 00:26:06,615 --> 00:26:10,355 and there are obviously parts of that that are too fragile 564 00:26:10,415 --> 00:26:13,755 and too risky to drill, especially in light 565 00:26:13,755 --> 00:26:16,315 of climate change, in light of permafrost melting. 566 00:26:16,735 --> 00:26:19,075 So what this, uh, final rule 567 00:26:19,135 --> 00:26:24,075 for the NPRA does is it sets aside 13 million acres 568 00:26:24,735 --> 00:26:26,035 for permanent protection. 569 00:26:26,035 --> 00:26:28,155 That is to say no leasing, uh, 570 00:26:28,335 --> 00:26:31,715 no new drilling in these areas, uh, 571 00:26:31,795 --> 00:26:35,315 because they are too important for subsistence uses 572 00:26:35,735 --> 00:26:38,195 for Alaska native, uh, tribes, 573 00:26:38,575 --> 00:26:42,945 and also for, um, for the, 574 00:26:43,225 --> 00:26:46,565 the wildlife in there, for the caribou, uh, for the birds. 575 00:26:46,615 --> 00:26:49,205 These are areas that are too fragile right now 576 00:26:49,305 --> 00:26:51,525 and need to be permanently protected. 577 00:26:51,865 --> 00:26:55,525 So 13 million acres, uh, is a, a 578 00:26:56,115 --> 00:27:00,405 huge deal in terms of, uh, protecting, uh, America 579 00:27:00,465 --> 00:27:03,845 and America's lands from the effects of climate change. 580 00:27:04,465 --> 00:27:08,405 And then along with that NPRA rule, uh, 581 00:27:08,745 --> 00:27:12,485 the Biden administration also rejected, uh, the, 582 00:27:12,625 --> 00:27:15,805 what's called the Ambler Mining Road, which was a proposal, 583 00:27:16,265 --> 00:27:21,005 uh, to build a $350 million 200 584 00:27:21,235 --> 00:27:23,805 mile road through gates 585 00:27:23,805 --> 00:27:25,845 of the Arctic National Parks and Preserve. 586 00:27:26,345 --> 00:27:29,645 It would've crossed 11 rivers, would've crossed thousands 587 00:27:29,645 --> 00:27:33,885 of streams in hopes that it would land terminate at 588 00:27:33,885 --> 00:27:36,205 what will someday be a future mine 589 00:27:36,515 --> 00:27:38,325 that hasn't actually been proposed. 590 00:27:38,625 --> 00:27:40,805 But the state of Alaska is convinced there's a lot 591 00:27:40,805 --> 00:27:44,085 of copper there, and they wanted to have this road in place, 592 00:27:44,625 --> 00:27:46,045 uh, to allow future mining. 593 00:27:46,385 --> 00:27:48,565 And the Biden administration looked at the science 594 00:27:48,825 --> 00:27:50,405 and said, no way. 595 00:27:50,625 --> 00:27:52,725 You cannot cross thousands 596 00:27:52,725 --> 00:27:56,725 of streams without permanently harming the wildlife, 597 00:27:56,825 --> 00:27:59,245 the fish, the birds through that area. 598 00:27:59,505 --> 00:28:01,765 And this is a national park and preserve. 599 00:28:02,145 --> 00:28:03,805 It just doesn't make sense. 600 00:28:04,385 --> 00:28:08,345 Um, so saying no, once 601 00:28:08,365 --> 00:28:11,665 and for all to this Ambler Mining Road is a very big deal. 602 00:28:11,925 --> 00:28:14,785 And having all of this science on the record 603 00:28:15,365 --> 00:28:18,185 is also an incredibly important step 604 00:28:18,185 --> 00:28:20,385 because if a future administration 605 00:28:21,455 --> 00:28:25,305 5, 10, 15 years down the road wanted to come in 606 00:28:25,305 --> 00:28:26,665 and say, oh, no, we're doing the road, 607 00:28:26,665 --> 00:28:29,745 after all, they would have to overcome all of this science 608 00:28:29,745 --> 00:28:33,545 that is now in the record that BLM has has put down. 609 00:28:33,725 --> 00:28:38,545 So, uh, a very big month for Alaska as well 610 00:28:38,545 --> 00:28:40,185 as the, the whole rest of the country here. 611 00:28:41,535 --> 00:28:43,265 - Okay. So let's talk about timing. 612 00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:45,705 Um, Michael, I had this question going to you, 613 00:28:45,705 --> 00:28:48,785 and maybe it makes more sense going to Justin since he deals 614 00:28:48,855 --> 00:28:49,985 with Congress. 615 00:28:50,205 --> 00:28:52,985 Um, but why, why are all these rules coming out right now? 616 00:28:52,985 --> 00:28:54,065 What's the big rush? 617 00:28:54,895 --> 00:28:56,705 - Yeah, that, that's a great question, Kate. 618 00:28:56,845 --> 00:28:59,545 And you know, I, I think that, uh, 619 00:29:00,885 --> 00:29:03,265 one yesterday was Earth Day, so I think 620 00:29:03,265 --> 00:29:06,305 that the administration, um, thematically, uh, 621 00:29:06,825 --> 00:29:08,945 probably wanted to, to center some of these announcements 622 00:29:08,945 --> 00:29:13,185 around, uh, around that big milestone, uh, annual milestone. 623 00:29:13,685 --> 00:29:17,265 Um, but also, uh, one thing that I know that, um, 624 00:29:18,155 --> 00:29:19,215 we all need to be mindful 625 00:29:19,275 --> 00:29:21,535 of is a tool called the Congressional Review Act. 626 00:29:21,955 --> 00:29:25,455 Um, this is, uh, a piece of legislation that was enacted, 627 00:29:25,715 --> 00:29:28,695 um, you know, back in the mid nineties, um, you know, 628 00:29:28,695 --> 00:29:31,095 as part of, uh, speaker Gingrich's, 629 00:29:31,235 --> 00:29:32,575 uh, contract with America. 630 00:29:32,995 --> 00:29:37,655 And essentially what it allows Congress to do, um, is, uh, 631 00:29:38,075 --> 00:29:42,445 delete a rule, um, by passing, uh, joint resolution 632 00:29:42,445 --> 00:29:44,005 through the House and Senate, um, 633 00:29:44,385 --> 00:29:46,445 and getting signed into law by the president. 634 00:29:47,065 --> 00:29:51,085 Um, that last piece, uh, is interesting 635 00:29:51,085 --> 00:29:52,565 because obviously we have, um, 636 00:29:53,205 --> 00:29:54,685 a Democratic president right now. 637 00:29:55,145 --> 00:29:57,845 Um, but the big threat is that, you know, in the event 638 00:29:57,955 --> 00:30:02,885 that in January, 2025, um, you know, there is a, 639 00:30:02,965 --> 00:30:05,325 a, a change in, in power, um, 640 00:30:06,125 --> 00:30:09,445 a Congressional Review Act resolution could potentially be, 641 00:30:09,905 --> 00:30:14,805 um, enacted on, on any, any rule that was finalized 642 00:30:14,825 --> 00:30:19,565 and communicated to Congress in the, uh, 60 day, 643 00:30:19,905 --> 00:30:23,965 the last 60 days of the, uh, congressional session. 644 00:30:24,665 --> 00:30:26,325 That's correct. Yeah. Legislative days. 645 00:30:27,465 --> 00:30:31,075 Yeah, legislative days, um, leading up to the conclusion 646 00:30:31,075 --> 00:30:32,475 of the 118th Congress. 647 00:30:32,895 --> 00:30:36,755 Um, so that's impossible to calculate right now, uh, 648 00:30:36,755 --> 00:30:39,275 because we don't know exactly when the House 649 00:30:39,275 --> 00:30:40,475 and Senate will be in session. 650 00:30:40,865 --> 00:30:43,315 They do have their calendars for 2024, 651 00:30:43,495 --> 00:30:47,595 but, you know, um, session weeks are often pulled down or, 652 00:30:47,595 --> 00:30:49,075 or put back on the calendar. 653 00:30:49,175 --> 00:30:51,115 So it's, it's a little bit of a moving target. 654 00:30:51,375 --> 00:30:54,635 Um, but just making sure that these rules are finalized 655 00:30:54,855 --> 00:30:57,955 and communicated to Congress, you know, beyond that window, 656 00:30:58,445 --> 00:31:02,075 helps ensure that they can't be repealed should the, uh, 657 00:31:02,215 --> 00:31:03,515 the political winds turn 658 00:31:03,575 --> 00:31:08,555 and, uh, in, in 2025, um, look different landscape wise. 659 00:31:09,065 --> 00:31:12,195 - Kate, I might just jump in on that a little bit here to, 660 00:31:12,435 --> 00:31:14,355 I think it's important to remember the history 661 00:31:14,355 --> 00:31:18,195 of the Biden administration, um, as to why a lot 662 00:31:18,195 --> 00:31:19,835 of these rules are rolling out now. 663 00:31:19,895 --> 00:31:22,875 And that history is this, when the Biden administration 664 00:31:22,875 --> 00:31:26,355 and the BLM, um, started up, uh, in, at the beginning 665 00:31:26,355 --> 00:31:30,835 of this last administration, they had to do a massive amount 666 00:31:31,295 --> 00:31:36,235 of, uh, fixing the agency that was basically, um, 667 00:31:36,825 --> 00:31:40,755 destroyed under the Trump administration with staff leaving, 668 00:31:41,175 --> 00:31:43,715 and they moved the headquarters to the west 669 00:31:43,975 --> 00:31:47,035 and they moved around staff and all of that type of thing. 670 00:31:47,215 --> 00:31:51,275 The agency really needed to rebuild almost from scratch, um, 671 00:31:51,415 --> 00:31:52,675 to get back up to speed. 672 00:31:52,785 --> 00:31:53,795 That took some time. 673 00:31:54,205 --> 00:31:56,875 These rulemaking efforts also take time, 674 00:31:57,015 --> 00:31:58,875 and the Biden administration did it right 675 00:31:59,015 --> 00:32:02,395 by making those processes long engaging. 676 00:32:02,705 --> 00:32:03,715 They took in federal 677 00:32:03,855 --> 00:32:05,715 or a public comment throughout those, 678 00:32:05,775 --> 00:32:09,395 the public lands rule alone had a 90 day comment period, 679 00:32:09,735 --> 00:32:14,355 six public meetings, uh, 200,000 comments, um, 680 00:32:14,415 --> 00:32:16,275 90% of which were favorable. 681 00:32:16,615 --> 00:32:20,235 But they went through those exhaustive processes on all 682 00:32:20,235 --> 00:32:22,875 of these rules to make sure that they did it right. 683 00:32:23,415 --> 00:32:25,515 The timing just happened to work out that a lot 684 00:32:25,515 --> 00:32:26,915 of them are coming now 685 00:32:27,265 --> 00:32:29,995 because they went through that entire process. 686 00:32:31,175 --> 00:32:36,115 And you have the threat of the Congressional Review Act 687 00:32:36,115 --> 00:32:37,355 that's looming out there. 688 00:32:38,275 --> 00:32:41,115 I think that the, um, Republicans on the house 689 00:32:41,495 --> 00:32:42,715 and, uh, in the Senate, 690 00:32:43,065 --> 00:32:46,195 they're definitely already challenging a lot of these rules. 691 00:32:46,255 --> 00:32:47,675 And we're gonna see legislation, 692 00:32:47,675 --> 00:32:50,115 whether it's a Congressional Review Act legislation 693 00:32:50,575 --> 00:32:53,195 or other pieces of legislation, the Public lands rule, 694 00:32:53,195 --> 00:32:55,955 for example, there's a bill by Representative Curtis 695 00:32:56,335 --> 00:32:57,555 that's in the house 696 00:32:57,585 --> 00:33:00,715 that we understand is in the coming weeks going 697 00:33:00,715 --> 00:33:03,915 to be considered on the floor, all of that we're gonna need 698 00:33:03,915 --> 00:33:06,155 to defend against, to defend these rules. 699 00:33:06,895 --> 00:33:08,635 Um, so they're gonna challenge them, 700 00:33:09,095 --> 00:33:12,115 but a lot of the progress that we've seen has been 701 00:33:12,115 --> 00:33:13,795 because the Biden administration took the time 702 00:33:13,815 --> 00:33:18,275 to systematically go through the legal process for all 703 00:33:18,275 --> 00:33:19,675 of this to establish these rules, 704 00:33:19,735 --> 00:33:20,995 and they're all coming out right now. 705 00:33:21,775 --> 00:33:24,595 - Um, while we're all here, let's go ahead 706 00:33:24,595 --> 00:33:26,115 and talk about other big public 707 00:33:26,205 --> 00:33:27,355 lands, things that are happening. 708 00:33:27,815 --> 00:33:31,675 Um, there is an effort to, um, amend plans 709 00:33:31,695 --> 00:33:34,235 to protect sage grouse habitat going on right now. 710 00:33:34,565 --> 00:33:36,355 Aaron, will you tell us a little bit about that? 711 00:33:37,345 --> 00:33:40,715 - Yeah, so this was in March, uh, the BLM uh, 712 00:33:41,195 --> 00:33:42,515 proposed a draft version 713 00:33:42,575 --> 00:33:45,675 of what's called the Sage Grouse Resource Management Plan, 714 00:33:45,675 --> 00:33:48,795 which is actually a whole bunch of resource management plans 715 00:33:48,985 --> 00:33:53,755 that inform how BLM does its job everywhere 716 00:33:53,805 --> 00:33:54,995 there is sage grouse. 717 00:33:55,425 --> 00:33:56,835 This is incredibly important 718 00:33:56,835 --> 00:33:58,875 because this is something the, uh, 719 00:33:59,125 --> 00:34:02,475 Obama administration tried to do back in 2015. 720 00:34:03,185 --> 00:34:05,635 That plan was basically knee capped 721 00:34:05,815 --> 00:34:09,355 by the Trump administration, all of that, uh, 722 00:34:09,425 --> 00:34:12,675 then got tied up in court for many years, leaving 723 00:34:13,275 --> 00:34:14,875 a very old plan in place. 724 00:34:15,135 --> 00:34:17,795 All the while sage grouse populations keep 725 00:34:17,845 --> 00:34:19,515 plummeting across the west. 726 00:34:20,295 --> 00:34:24,955 And at this point, this is the last best effort, uh, 727 00:34:25,095 --> 00:34:27,915 to prevent the sage grouse from being listed under the 728 00:34:27,915 --> 00:34:30,515 Endangered Species Act, which is something 729 00:34:30,515 --> 00:34:32,595 that everyone wants to avoid 730 00:34:32,595 --> 00:34:36,435 because that would have drastic effects across the entire 731 00:34:36,435 --> 00:34:39,635 West that make it hard to do just about anything. 732 00:34:39,815 --> 00:34:42,555 So to prevent that, uh, you have 733 00:34:42,555 --> 00:34:44,235 to save the grouse right now, you have 734 00:34:44,235 --> 00:34:45,755 to stabilize those populations. 735 00:34:46,335 --> 00:34:50,275 So this grouse R mps in a public comment period right now, 736 00:34:50,275 --> 00:34:52,555 that comment period ends in June. 737 00:34:53,175 --> 00:34:55,275 Uh, and hopefully fairly quickly 738 00:34:55,275 --> 00:34:58,835 after that, you'll see a final sage grouse, RMP in place 739 00:34:58,835 --> 00:35:00,915 that will help protect the bird 740 00:35:01,175 --> 00:35:03,955 and prevent that Endangered Species Act listing. 741 00:35:04,775 --> 00:35:07,955 Um, and then the only other, other thing I wanna flag, uh, 742 00:35:07,955 --> 00:35:10,875 that Justin May be able to talk about, um, is the, 743 00:35:10,975 --> 00:35:12,915 the solar program environmental 744 00:35:12,915 --> 00:35:14,275 impact statement that's on the way. 745 00:35:15,655 --> 00:35:17,145 - Sure. Happy to talk more about that. 746 00:35:17,485 --> 00:35:21,145 Um, so on April 18th, uh, the Bureau 747 00:35:21,145 --> 00:35:25,105 of Land Management concluded a 90 day public comment process 748 00:35:25,605 --> 00:35:28,865 on, uh, its utility scale, uh, 749 00:35:28,915 --> 00:35:31,865 solar programmatic environmental impact statement. 750 00:35:32,245 --> 00:35:35,505 Um, Aaron and Kate, thanks again for, for hosting me 751 00:35:35,505 --> 00:35:38,045 to speak more about this back in, uh, back in February. 752 00:35:38,625 --> 00:35:41,725 Um, but essentially this is a, a long process to determine, 753 00:35:42,065 --> 00:35:46,685 um, which BLM lands, uh, across 11 western states, 754 00:35:47,145 --> 00:35:50,965 uh, are appropriate for, uh, solar energy applications, 755 00:35:51,295 --> 00:35:54,325 which should be completely excluded from, uh, you know, 756 00:35:54,885 --> 00:35:57,965 companies even being allowed to apply to build on, um, 757 00:35:58,465 --> 00:36:01,125 and, uh, in determining how much acreage should be open 758 00:36:01,265 --> 00:36:02,525 for, for applications. 759 00:36:03,225 --> 00:36:06,885 Um, but that comment period is, is now closed. 760 00:36:07,145 --> 00:36:10,685 Uh, the next step would be for the agency 761 00:36:10,685 --> 00:36:15,205 to issue a final programmatic EIS, um, respond 762 00:36:15,345 --> 00:36:17,285 to comments that they received over the 763 00:36:17,285 --> 00:36:18,445 90 day comment period. 764 00:36:18,945 --> 00:36:21,125 Um, select an alternative. 765 00:36:21,385 --> 00:36:23,485 Uh, there are five alternatives that, uh, 766 00:36:23,715 --> 00:36:27,205 make various levels of, uh, acreage available 767 00:36:27,305 --> 00:36:29,725 for solar applications, uh, across the west. 768 00:36:30,385 --> 00:36:34,885 Um, and to sign a record of decision, uh, that, 769 00:36:34,955 --> 00:36:37,445 that implements the alternatives that they select. 770 00:36:37,665 --> 00:36:42,045 So we expect that to happen sometime in the fall, uh, maybe, 771 00:36:42,665 --> 00:36:45,525 um, but more on that hopefully soon. 772 00:36:45,955 --> 00:36:47,445 - Awesome. Well, that was a lot 773 00:36:47,445 --> 00:36:49,005 of public lands news for you guys. 774 00:36:49,465 --> 00:36:53,645 Um, and we're, we were so lucky to have, um, Michael Carroll 775 00:36:53,645 --> 00:36:55,365 and Justin Muse with the Wilderness Society 776 00:36:55,365 --> 00:36:56,485 here to talk about it. 777 00:36:56,495 --> 00:36:59,685 Thank you guys both, um, really appreciate your, your help 778 00:36:59,705 --> 00:37:00,805 and your knowledge. 779 00:37:01,255 --> 00:37:02,605 - Thank you. Thank you both. 780 00:37:07,665 --> 00:37:10,565 - Hey folks, I've got a quick clarification on the National 781 00:37:10,565 --> 00:37:12,405 Petroleum Reserve Alaska Rule. 782 00:37:12,895 --> 00:37:14,805 Aaron said the rule will end new drilling 783 00:37:14,825 --> 00:37:18,165 and leasing on around 13 million acres in the NPRA, 784 00:37:18,545 --> 00:37:20,845 but actually it's a little more complicated than that. 785 00:37:21,465 --> 00:37:25,125 In fact, the rule ends new leasing on 10.6 million acres, 786 00:37:25,505 --> 00:37:27,765 but some of that land is already leased to oil 787 00:37:27,765 --> 00:37:28,845 and gas companies 788 00:37:28,945 --> 00:37:30,925 and could still be drilled just 789 00:37:30,925 --> 00:37:32,405 with much higher environmental 790 00:37:32,685 --> 00:37:33,965 standards created by the rule. 791 00:37:44,035 --> 00:37:45,765 - Well, that is it for today, folks. 792 00:37:45,905 --> 00:37:49,005 Go follow us on social media if you don't already. 793 00:37:49,345 --> 00:37:53,445 Our colleague Sterling is doing a spectacular jog on TikTok 794 00:37:53,585 --> 00:37:55,965 taking everything that we just talked about over the last 795 00:37:55,965 --> 00:37:58,085 half hour and somehow condensing it down 796 00:37:58,425 --> 00:37:59,685 to 90 seconds at a time. 797 00:37:59,715 --> 00:38:01,245 It's great. Uh, also, of course, 798 00:38:01,275 --> 00:38:05,045 send us your feedback podcast@westernpriorities.org. 799 00:38:05,425 --> 00:38:08,005 - Thanks again to Justin and Michael for joining us today. 800 00:38:08,425 --> 00:38:10,725 And thank you for listening to the landscape.