Howdy, Howdy Howdy folks, It's Dave, and I
am here at g. Na Rose,
Illinois. There's always something happened and there's been
a lot happened today because today is the
release of escape and tide. And I'm here.
I'm here with Chris Walker.
Na What's up. How are you? Hey. And
I'm also here with our friend Ivan from
our, our gaming group? Yeah. How's it going?
And
So we've been here all day. We've been...
I've been given demos. We've been doing stuff.
You guys just had a full game of
Als. And we're just here to kinda talk
about our first impressions of the day.
We're at a low. We had a bunch
of people coming in. Now some guys gone
to dinner, so we're just sitting around and
we are recording.
Guys, so, how you're finding it so far.
Now that you got now that you got
some real games in. You...
It was
a learning experience for sure. It would took
a little while to...
I guess get the nuances with what we
have, like, how do we even start playing?
Like, would we roll for attacker to friend,
I guess? And, like, do all the stuff?
And then like, underdog bonus that was new.
We had to learn that. I like there's
all the new battle plans. The box that
comes with, basically the general's handbook in it,
which I thought was cool.
So... Yeah. Card that's all that important stuff.
The only thing need to play that right
from the start. That was cool.
Yeah...
Okay. Let's talk about this. Box that comes
with
the 2 the 2 sets, which are great.
And, I didn't even realize this till today
till we were looking at it.
But
So you got the sets. You've got
all the stuff you need for spear. Got
the board. You got the cards. You got
all that. And then Ivan, you were unpacking
and you're like, there's a package with 6
extra 40 mil bases in here.
And I was like, you know, I got
an extra package of 06:40 mil bases. Didn't
know what to do with it. I just
tossed it in with my extra bases. I
figured they accidentally gave us too many bases,
and then you're, like, wait a minute. And
then you said... Yeah. The they're probably objective
markers because objective markers are no. 40 mil.
Yeah. So they give you object markers, which
is pretty nice. I mean, yeah, they're playing
bases, but it's better than having to use
dice or you have 6 objective markers that
are 40 mills... At right when you start
out there. I mean, that's. I didn't even
think about that. I'm like, oh, that's really...
I mean, Great It's a simple thing,
but I thought it was pretty great. Yeah.
Now I've been giving demos.
We had people coming right,
I don't thing think. I believe his name
was right and he was here with Amy
and then their friend whom I forgot her
name. She was just kinda chilling and watching.
And once again, Bob people came in. He
had bought the spear head. He hadn't played
the, you know, War hammer in a while,
but he picked up the the the sk
tide
and came in, and we had a whole
thing set up and turned 1
took a little while. Got everything stored rolling,
gotta it going.
By turn 2.
Question here question there. That was it. They
were off un running playing on their own.
There's like Great. You know how to play
war ham now. You got every... You know,
you got the core rules down.
Later, I had
guys came by, list In the show, gentleman
named Dan with his
daughter's,
marina and Lucia.
And
there's Oh, they were... It just... All came
with all their own stuff. They out printed
out all the... They printed out all the
spear heads and laminate. Their cards. They had
it all sitting there. The girls were playing.
We went through Taught everything. They were so
nice. We had such a great time.
I did win a game of spear earlier
today that I was playing, and then Dan,
You know what's really good is that stupid
cruel boys with all the shooting?
No wow.
He's a 3 bow dudes and it's... Big.
And just took my my Sk in general
off top of turn 1. I was just
like, what is happening?
It was just p
my army. It was funny.
But so much fun. Yeah. In my spear
game that I played is was the first
thing I did when I first got into
the store.
I played the Mega garden Spear, which is
just 3 man crusher. So just... How did
that go? Because I I've I I am
I am I am 1 of those people
in the camp of. I kinda... Just I
I hate this army, but I kinda love
this. Like I love the idea. I just...
It's like, oh, god. So it the way
it work. Is because meet man crusher, they
only have 12 wounds. Right? So they have
the reinforcement ability, which I don't think is
on their normal war scroll for normal games.
No. Don't So they can come back after
they die at the end of your next
general. Right? Or can... So there's nothing right
now that says you can't bring back your
general. So my general didn't die, and But
there's nothing that says you can't bring back
the person who you'd selected as a general
to come back as a reinforcement. Unless I
missed something, I might have misread or just
missed a the wording for it, but there
was nothing that directly didn't say that I
could not.
But, yeah, I mean, took us maybe
10:15 minutes to set up me and a...
My my friend Cody, and
under an hour. We play the game in
under an hour, all 4 rounds. That's the
thing. If you know how to play it.
Once you know how to play... I I
think the law part is the part Okay.
I'm gonna set up my pieces. Because you
gotta go through those orders of the thing.
I was even taking us after a couple
of demos to okay. First, you pick first,
you roll for,
you know, you roll for
the it's the start of the turn or
start of the battle around. Roll for your
initiative.
Then you gotta decide right away if you're
taking the turn or not because you do
all that before you flip cards before you
do this and then whether you're gonna lose
your objectives or not, but man. And the
real fun thing about it too is the
cards. I mean, you don't really have to
do a lot of thinking with your hero
like your commands because... On the cart. So
it's like, do I wanna score this bell
tactic? Or do I wanna use this command
ability, maybe my turn or during my opponent's
turn? Mh. So there's a little bit of
give and take with... They're how much you
have to actually
remember everything because everything's kind of in front
of you or in your hands. Yeah. So
that's really nice. And I think it's also
just really nice how accessible it is because
it's like, like I said, mailed, sons of
Bay, just 2 pages. They just have 2
pages 1 war scroll. Yeah. I have 1
more scroll. In the next page is just
my enhancements. Like battle traits, you know, everything
else for that. And, even though they're very
pretty easy to remember too. They're just, like,
oh,
stuff them in a bag. I think it's
like, you to, like, 2 units instead of
1. Or, like,
it wasn't the other 1. I think the
other 1 was like, oh, if you're the
general and you're on the contestant objective, you
get plus 1 to hits
is melee weapon. So Mean, they're very simple
things are not very, like complicated, and that's
just... That that is the smallest spear. I
don't think anything smaller than 3. No. I
no.
But it's it's crazy. And it's it's like
I said, it's it's really quick and fun.
And with the variety, because I the nice
thing today is people brought their own stuff.
That's Si 1 is brutal.
It was
it was a Marina who had the
daughter's a cane 1.
No Okay. And that was that was... I
mean,
she was all irritated because going against the
silva that's 1 is just brutal, no matter
what you do. What's the silver
The the Silver one's got a tree lord
and,
like, 2 units of 3 of those really
good branch. That the big guys the the
I feel the Colonel hunter. Yeah. Take 2
minutes to ke off Hunter. And the the
the the hunters come back. They... So it's
just... You... You're just pounding... They don't have
a lot of models, but you're pounding away
Adam. Pounding away Adam. You finally take them
off the board and you're like, okay. Now
they
not try it again. And the cool thing
about the Silva f too is that's what
Cody played against me with is striking fade.
You have to roll for it now. Yeah.
So I didn't... I even realize that's how
they they did it now because I haven't
seen anything for them. Mh. So,
pretty pretty good to have,
especially with them because they're... I wouldn't say
they're
weaker in the sense, but it's good to
just run away and go to a different
side of the spear battlefield too just to
capture another objective after
the bow face. Yeah. There's there's...
It's such a tiny
board. It's 20... It's a board. It's 22
by 30, like It's like a quarter of
a regular board. So if you had 4
spear board, you could have a regular sized
board, I guess. Yes. Yeah. If you put
4 together, it'd be a full a full
gift
but the reinforcements are constantly coming up. Like...
And you and you... You're right in each
other's faces. You are 12 inches away on
the board. I mean, you're... If you if
you do the regular straight across the you
only got a 5 inch deployment zone. It's
like you are right in each other's faces
in the beginning, just punching away for those
objectives and trying it around. Outside during your
game. I've been that you you read... You
brought back 1 of your gardens.
And you're, like, where is this thing go?
I'm like, because you were gonna bring it
in 1 spot. And I like, no Has
to go in your deployments on, oh, okay.
There's no room. Yeah. You know, there's no
rule for 9 inches in does. He just
bring it in within 6. Like, no no.
Yeah
It's gotta be within 6 inches in the
morning 3 and, out of combat. Right. So
you just like put it right next to
his... Alright. Not gonna charge. Yep. Yep. I'm
coming off the edge of the board and
if you're unlucky enough to be here. I'm
coming Tree lord was there. I think you
took the tree lord out that turn. Right?
Yeah. So the fun part about that is
the fact that, like you said, it's 6
inches, but also, it's
just not in uncommon, you just can't be
in combat. So literally, if you have a
man crusher that died in turn previously, and
you wanna bring it back at the end
of your movement face. If you have any
enemies in your deployment zone, like, in your
in your friendly zone, then net, you just
put them just 3 inches away from them
and 6 inches within the board edge, which
is honestly not impossible with how big bases
are. Right. Yeah. That was guy was cool.
And said, so
what what was the result that? Did... I
I think you... I heard you lost by
1 point? The Yes. So I lost by
1 point because the battle tactics that I
drew, I could not complete the third 1.
I completed 2 of them. Which I believe
1 was
I think, like, stain within... Because it was
down the middle. It wasn't the slash
board on the iron board. Yeah. So I
just had to had 1 unit, wholly within,
like, 3 inches on the enemy side of
that middle line. And the other 1 was
I just had to add someone. Combat. Mh.
I can't remember the exact names. But then
the third 1, I think was I had
to take
control of an objective. And that objective, I
don't know. It was
way across the board for me. So my
man crusher could not make it the whole
way. Gotcha. So I guess that might be
the drawback to the
the man crusher
spear. Right? Is that you're just kinda limited
and, like, sometimes the about that you only
have 3 models
You know what I mean? It's like, it's
gonna be hard to probably do some of
those sometimes. That's interesting.
Yes. It's it's certainly... You gotta play to
your strengths, and I feel like with man
crusher. You have to keep 2 together because
if you Yeah. Single them out, they're gonna
be very easy to take down when your
opponent's is gonna focus on 1 after the
other. Yeah. Within reinforcement ability, it can always
work in your advantage. So I think it's,
like, keep 2 paired together and just keep
1 alone. And if that 1 dies, at
least you know Yeah. Like, roughly You're be
able to bring them back. Because you almost
kinda like, maybe run a guy in, do
something cool with the dies and then just
bring them back somewhere.
Also useful On your yeah. Right? That's cool.
I like that.
Yeah. There's a ton that you can do.
Like I said, I'm really...
And
I've painted up the sk and spear. I'm
almost done with it, and
I'm pretty happy with it. And it's like,
I kinda... I'm now I'm going back to
finish harrison. Like, this isn't
I just... There's so many... Like, I I've
I I have...
I have enough models now. I can do
the
cool boys.
Spear. Or I can do the I can
do 1 of the the ga spear heads.
Armies that I've been meaning to paint that
I have Was like, I don't wanna paint
the whole army right now. Oh, I'll paint
the spear. Then you got something.
Then you got something to build, and that's
where... That's when... That's that's when it gets
dangerous. And then I have as many armies
as walker has. And then my wife gets
mad.
So... But this this is dangerous. Like, I've
painted this and it's like, I really wanna
go back and paint the other half because
this is... There's still 20
the 26
or 24, 26 models that aren't in the
spear head there in a box, but it's
like, knock gonna. Let's get them done. Let's
do this. This looks good. Like, it's. It's
really
it's feeding my addiction in the worst ways
because it's giving me nice little bites. You
know? And I have a friend, Dan. He
had bought every single war cry war band
when War cry was, like, you know, just
up and coming, and they're were still releasing
war bands like crazy, and he ended up
selling them all because he didn't... He just
didn't had any fun And after he played,
they think he played 3 spear head games
during,
me and Chris's 2 k game.
He's like, yeah. No. I see myself buying
at least 6 or 7 spear heads, and
I told him, like, please don't.
Because that... That's a lot. That is that
is just way too familiar. Like, it it's
it's it's a lot of fun. Buy a
dozen, but buy him 1 at a time.
Yeah. No. Definitely take your time. I know
him. He's gonna buy them all at the
same time. Right
Well, good for G nerds.
We go.
Alright. So
and this is gonna be a short episode
because I'm gonna try to do. I'm gonna
try when we're done with this. I'm just
gonna try to get it put get it
into the computer, get it edit and get
it out today. So people who are playing
today. Can be listen to us, talk about
Playing. Now I didn't get in a full
game because I'm still doing all this other
stuff but 2 did. So
like I said, I... Not just how your
game went. You know? That's that's that's interesting,
but
Any of that... Anything that you noticed,
you know, double turn mechanic,
terrain, I'm I'm starting to feel the terrain
is very preset very specific, which I personally
love that. I can now go through my
terrain and be, like, I have these pieces.
This is a board. I have a... I
can I I know how many boards I
have now by the sort of what I
wanna use, and I can theme them easily
with 8 pieces,
but they're very specific?
I feel like at least from what I've
been playing. You know, you got something in
between you. You kinda get covered. Like, cover
just kinda happens a lot in the game,
You know, but it's also a little hard
to completely hide too.
I'm just... I'm excited to see what you
guys think because you guys got the full
game in and I didn't get to do
the the full game this morning. So I'm
curious. So I'm gonna let... I'm gonna hand
this over you guys and just go
Yeah. So for us, the... Would be... What
was the name of the mission we played.
It was
god I camera. Where where's is the card
packs? I'll look at it with me.
I gotta it hear my phone.
Alright. On your your app. Yeah. On the
app. There you go.
It was.
Oh, is the app up and running on?
The... No. Not not the Ao app, but
it's the it's the 1 you use tournaments
and stuff for big events. I the... Play
better part of Valor.
Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. And in this 1,
The terrain setup was really nice. I feel
like there's no field ads in this addition
when it comes to terrain. Right? Because the
problem that I've had with previous games. It's
always like, well, the rain was kinda set
up differently. I would feel a little bit
better about how I played. Right. But now
that it's preset,
you don't have to feel like, oh, you
know, it's my fault and not going around.
Right now, the terrain is where it's supposed
to be. Yeah. And every single game you
play. And
with this battle plan, specifically, it was very
even. It was just Yeah. 3 objectives on
each side,
just what's it? Kinda I... We just picked
1 that's, like, you know, just a standard
long board edge, 9 inches from it, you
know, half and half
the, you know, territories, 9 inches from enemy
territories.
6 objectives, 3 across, you know, each
person's territory in the middle. We just played
I guess 1 of the basic, more basic
ones just to get a feel for what
we were doing.
And, honestly, like, the train in our game,
I don't think it really impacted
too much because... We also forgot some. We've
we've places of power. We forgot to use
the places of power.
Yeah. We forgot to use that, But I
Mean, we didn't they didn't really... No. It
wouldn't make any difference because it was, like
plus to casting. I guess. I... Yeah. You
have plus a cast or plus the un
bind or whatever.
But, I mean, you only 1 who could
really use those is our characters. Right? Are
the wizards, I think. Right. Which I think
it was just your K and my
weird adoption. I mean, which across the gate...
The board the whole time. So that wouldn't
wouldn't matter to him. Right. So that part,
you know, we didn't really interact too much
of it, but at least we were aware
of it.
I think that... I mean, the first 2
turns of our game took a long time
just kinda like getting
used to it, you know, like,
I mean, I've tried to think of do
we use all... We didn't really use all
the new commands did we? No. We didn't
use all the... That we did counter charge.
We did do some counter charging?
Which was pretty good. That was cool. It
it was really nice. I mean it was
nice to have something to do during the
charge phase now was the opponent, getting charged.
Yeah. If I failed my counter charge and
and in retrospect, I probably should have done
it because it cost me 2 bad boys,
which I needed.
What And see that's to me, that's what
I'm that's what I'm asking them for because,
what I'm looking at this, and I'm thinking
that counter charge especially. You know? Yeah. Like,
that's during... You know, they're all done with
all that. And
I just... I'm waiting for that to come
up when you try to charge him. And
that easy charge you need a 5. Yeah.
And you fail it. Yeah. I'm like, oh
okay, I'm gonna spend my 2 command points.
I'm coming in. Like, I just... Yeah. Like,
it's the counter charge 1 is the 1
that I get kinda most excited about because
in my head that seems like such a
something that can really flip Yeah. Flip the
script there. Yeah. I failed my counter charge,
but you made Yours, which was
which is pretty good Actually. Because that was
my makeup boss going towards your
con concussion. A yep. Yes. So that was
actually pretty good because I got to do
a little bit more damage on them been
making storm cast.
They
have the craziest armor savings I mean Mean
as the whole army got a 3 up.
And And then they and the analogy was
shields up a 2 up. Right. It's... And
then, like, your army pretty much had 1
rin. Right. My iron draws. I mean, like
it's nice that most things in iron draws
now has 1 ren, But Yeah. Unless you
have infantry minus... Like, infantry ren. Yeah. Right.
For the specialty. It's just not it's not
enough. Right. And then you can... I mean,
I was using, like... Because the storm comcast
have the ability to, like, each unit can
use the finest hour, like, once per it's
turn No well. So so Okay. Each unit
gets to do it, you know, at least
once, and I was doing it in that
1. Turn once turn. Requirement. It's it's... Each
unit gets to do it once during the
game. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So it gets its
own find Yeah. So I was doing with
my, like, now he's was great hammers have
it. Okay? Now the ann with the shields
have it, and then I'm just gonna use
all that defense on the unit that didn't
use it. So I'm just got, like, plus
1 armor just all over the place because
I pretty much Alpha did Alpha strike with
con concussion, 2 of ann and the lord
imp. Right. I just crashed a flank. Right.
And that was pretty much where all our
fighting was. Yeah. Because I was actually... Because
I know how hard a annihilate hit, and
I'm like, okay. So I had...
2 5 man brute. Yeah. On that side,
with my weird shop and that you charge
into with my weird boot records and my
mega boss on foot. Yep. So
by the end of turn 1, I believe
you killed the weird brute records, I can't
even his hack with him yet. Right?
Even with their sick was a 5 award.
I saved. You say a lot of saves
well. I mean, 12 award saves,
and he's... You still made enough attack. It
just... It didn't matter. Yeah I'm like, wow.
Yeah. Because the great weapon eye, they do
3 damage each. Yeah. 10 attacks when they
come in. And I did the thunder hosting
thing. I'm So, like, if they're fighting alongside
of another chamber, that's why I had the
concussion there because they're extremist.
And now there's our warrior chamber, all the
warrior chamber guys get plus 1 to hit.
When they're next 2 somebody from another chamber.
So I'm just hitting on two's, wounding on
two's,
ren two's, 3 damage there. The the coin
is sound.
The most I ever got was fours and
threes and possibly getting threes and threes when
I was able to get all lot of
tech. If you didn't
roar me, but that was...
So,
I mean, our storm cast... I mean, it
sounds like they're really good.
They're really good. They've just...
With
a good skill player. They're great
with a player who's just starting out playing
storm cast. They're not gonna have any problem
playing the game or learning anything because it's
literally gonna be very forgiving. It's not gonna
be, like, oh, I mess up this whole
turn. There's no way can turn back from
this. It's gonna be, like, you can stumble
with Storm cast. And yeah when the game.
So like they that poster voice and they're
easy to
The exactly. I also cr sales. Threes and
threes, twos and 3. I mean, that that
right there in itself was,
I mean, it's it's interesting how you was
handling, storm cast, this edition, But I feel
like these most armies are gonna either gonna
be really good or really bad. And then
when they come out with their battle tones.
That's 1 they gonna start balancing. Well, and
that's the thing... You know, the... These are
these are the war scrolls
for the... These are third edition war scrolls
being adapted for the new addition. As opposed
to getting a whole new battle tone with
with new rules and new adjustments
specifically for this stuff. So that's I'm excited
to see because they haven't even announced the
books
yet. And I... I mean We've heard nothing.
And I know. I mean, I would... I
would think within a month you'd have the
storm cast and the and the Sc books
out at least and we haven't heard anything.
Like, I'm just excited to grab the General's
handbook at this point, but if it's anything
like tenth edition or 40 k, I think
they're gonna wait at least like, what is,
like, 2 or 3 months? I... It was
a while until we got the custodian in
Workbook because that was or, you know, what
was it?
The
dark angels Yeah. Dark angels. I'm sorry. I'm
like, I'm thinking about the most recent 1
though. It was dark angels and
tier. Yeah. Oh, Neck. Or neck. Yeah Neck.
No. Was it? What space nec came up
first? Well. Because they're in the box?
I don't know which box we're talking about.
I mean, I Leviathan was the... Leviathan. Is
the space marines and the tier. Okay. So
Was right. Yeah... What space marines? I'm like,
I think Never runs was ninth edition. No,
yeah. Please rated the t. Got a But
so... Alright here. Let me give this.
So... But, so What about, like, what did
you find that was interesting that was was
different? Like... I mean, even if it just
basic rules that play different, things like that?
We did a I did a rally.
With
with with the big dragon side Cro.
That was cool. He got a couple wounds
back. Pretty much. I mean, that was the
same idea, but it was just the different
mechanic, which was cool.
We did, you know, a lot of the
d 3 roles. We had a lot of
those going on where you, you know, on
AG3.
Alright, you know,
Wait, A3A3
real d 3 on a 3 plus to
do this. We had a lot of that
going,
and that's really nice to... That... That's just
get it. Like, you'd make, like, a 2
up role and then you get the ability
that's either on the worst roll or that's
on your fax.
Yep. I seem to make it go little
faster, less dice rolling. Yep The
manifestations. Oh, gosh. We didn't talk about man
That is a huge portion of our of
our games. So I'll go ahead and talk
about. The only 1 I was able to
cast because it was the only dealing. Any
damage for my army, not saying that drones
can't deal damage, but when you're fighting storm
cast, it's hard to penetrate that armor, and
I... I picked primal energy, So I had
Ra jobs. I got it off every turn
and I was able to charge every turn,
And we ended turn 3 because Chris only
left me with Go
at the end of turn 3. So we
had to kinda call it there just because
I don't think I was really gonna come
back from but the Ra
jaws when you cast it, has to be
wholly within 12 inches of the caster and
has to be 9 inches away from enemies.
Yep. Now
when you charge into an enemy, you get
to do in the charge phase. So this
is in fight phase. In the charge phase
you get to do roll 10 dice fabric
5 up. It's a mortal womb.
So I think the first time I did
it you, I I did what, like, did
say 5 or 5. Yeah. I did 5
mortal wounds, and then we had to go
over the the card because I'm like, I
think I still get my Melee profile and
going over the rules, it's because it happened
in the charge phase Yep. That did not
count as my melee profile. So you were
able... You're able to get 20 attacks
with that single
manifestation
Now with... After the mortal wounds, the melee
profile is 10 attacks, forwards on two's, minus
1 run. And if it charged, it's too
damage if it doesn't charge. It's 1 damn.
I think it's nasty. It is brutal. Yeah.
But... So then I did some magic... I
did the... I had the Storm cast 1,
so I had
the comment,
which is, Yeah. Anywhere within 18, drop a
comment down
on a on a 3 up, do that
many more wounds. I was again pretty lucky
just plug in more balloons on people with
ic. And then I banished it in your
turn because it just sits there and just
kinda boils away. I just banished it on
your turn, Like, I don't get it back.
And then, either they used the ce celestial
vortex, you know, the the hammer vortex thing
this... That thing is awesome. It's so good.
You cast it out there Yeah. Hammer toward.
The hammer turns. 18 inch range. And then
it it has to be set up more
than 9,
and then it can charge. And I think
I got both my 9 inch charges office
with it when I used it. Yeah. And
then
I was also... And then if you're fighting
just something that can't do, like, 7 wounds
to it, it just sits there and just
bat it has 12 attacks, force 4 ren
1 1 damage.
So it just just does its thing, and
then I was using Cro
minus 1
save.
His tempe. So I was deb buff the
unit inc combat with it. So it's just
doing 12 attacks
with Ren 2 and just right. Just beaten
stuff up. It was... How far could you
cast? I forgot 18 and 18 inches so.
Yeah. Yeah. It's and then it moves. And
then you can't move it on the turn
you comes in. Right.
But you can still charge it? You could
still... You still sell charge the. Yeah. It
was it the thing's pretty cool. Mh. I
mean, you you're able to kill it. I
think both times. Like, yeah. I kill it
both times kill other both times. But, like,
I don't care. You know, I that just
And then you can also use the manifestations
to lock people in combat too.
Which just awesome. It's,
yeah. With Sk, you got
you have the vi tide, which I was
talking about earlier. So the and
manifestation for Sc is 13 wounds you know,
you had a 6 up award for the,
you know, for the spell itself, but then
you also heal d 6 at end at
the end of any phase.
So 13 wounds it's a 6 together. Yeah.
That... And it's a it's a big base
too. It's not small It's pretty decent size.
I'm like, that's my roadblock right now. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yeah. That man I it's, like, having
just... Like, the the ones that moves the
my vision that move over, there's, like, having
3 extra units in your army. They're
Yeah. I think they're really cool. So
question. Yeah. So... But they're... They... I mean,
that sc 1 sounded hard, but they seem
like, in general, they're not too difficult to
kill no. But but then you just thrown
back out again. Like, you're just chuck matt...
The this is what storm of magic should
have been. Yeah. Back when they had all
that crazy stuff going on.
But so... Yeah. So... And they're free. So
it's like, you you kinda have to go
and buy them. Like, yeah. I, like, I
don't have certain, like, I'm digging up but
because I I would buy them and then
I for, like, Yeah. I just found the
night hunt ones yesterday.
And I got my slaves to darkness ones.
But I was like, you kinda need to
go out and run out and buy these
because it's just free crazy attackers.
So, yeah. I mean, I I recommend anyone
who wants to take a manifestation station or
if they don't have their own faction station
because I exercises to have, like, their drone
own fax that's why it took primal energy.
But Where did you find that list for
the
type butt but, what in what
armies can take which manifestations? Where is that?
So that's in the faction packs. So when
you go in the faction packs, you see
where it says, like, your lore,
Your prayers,
it would be under there, but because they
don't have a manifestation lawyer, they just no
manifestation law. So it would it would say
right there when you look at the faction
pack when the the article of g posted,
So if there isn't a manifestation law that
specifically says on the faction pack, then you
probably don't have 1 for for that
Army. Here. So the did they did have
a manifestation or listed. Because there are some
who don't have them listed that's what I'm
saying?
No. The addresses doesn't have 1 listed. That's
what that's why just pick 1. So you
just pick 1. Yeah. Pick 1 what That's
Oh, yes. Yes. I'm sorry. You pit you
pick a manifestation floor.
Do you know we also posted a a
link to the manifestation laws. What But as
far as I know, I don't know if
there's an actual, like, link to get to
the in the general's handbook.
Yes. Which have yet. Which we don't have
yet. Right. To say Okay. So I'm not
crazy. Yet We haven't. No. No.
Yeah. No. They're... I... The physicians have really
fun. They they're gonna they we there's is
gonna be all kinds of, like, crazy stuff
here are gonna start doing these things because
they're, like, brand new and they're they're pretty
fun a
think. We use the rules that were given
to us by Ao coach posted of that
on Youtube. That's where I found the rules
for all the manifestation laws
for anyone that's currently thinking about using a
manifestation more that doesn't have the rules in
hand. That's the only place that I know
where you could find it online.
But beyond that, I feel if you don't
wanna take a whole bunch of endless spells,
a whole bunch of manifestations.
Take Cross spine. Cross spine free now used
to be like, 480 pointed in last edition,
and it eats man station. So if you're
very anti magic just take It, It does
additional damage in are Current. Yeah. And that
and that that 1 it it I know
that in the manifestations because I remember seeing
them listed, But it's not... But he's a
manifestation Laurel of 1. You take him. That's
all you get. Right. That's all you get.
Because he's he's pretty brutal still. Yeah. I
mean, he Cool. So if you have nothing...
So that's not... Thank you for that suggestion.
Because Like Said, I'm going... I mean the
armies I have have a lore, But I
know I've... I've been going to like, with
these. I don't have Lawyer these. I don't
have a lawyer. And I'm, That's a... And
that's the 1 question I keep seeing popping
up Is like, where do I get these?
It's was like, so not yet. We don't
have all that stuff yet. Although you found
it on the Ao code, but that's from
leaks. Is not from... Well, I I don't
know if the G w gave him the
information because the information he has is looks
pretty official. At least the summaries that he
has, It looks official, but I can't say...
Yeah. I I don't know. That's the 1
thing,
the stuff they sent to us. So I
keep looking through it I'm like, am I
missing it somewhere and I Yeah. I couldn't
find General. Okay. Cool.
Alright.
So what else?
I was kind of
I was kinda
surprised to see that the
the iron dress only had 1 red on
their whole.
The... I didn't I didn't call my iron
draws swab, but that's also because I did
I get them extra.
I believe he gave them an extra attack
in it. Extra rent. Yes. That's really... Okay.
Yeah. But the problem was
for me to call it, I think I
had to call it on my
general
and my general, you killed them. Oh, yeah.
I them
turn to. Yeah. And I didn't expect him
to die so fast because american customers, They
they do a lot of data. They do.
And
I did, you know, win the? War master?
Is he a war master? I believe is...
Do you know what? I keep forgetting all
the drag. Because you also had that thing
where it was like a... Any models within
18 inches of head get plus 1
attack. That would have been healed. This 1
hit plus 1 a hip. Oh my god.
So it's like, that would have helped me
out so Yeah with all the... Because... All
the jaws rolls base is, like... Fours and
threes. Yep. So that's already pretty hard to
achieve. And then on top of that too,
trying to,
hopefully,
See your roles not going into, like, 3.
Right? Because yeah. Because I was doing... I
was, like, stopping me from using commands.
I was
giving you minus just 1 to hit when
my... That first turn I came in from
the Scott or the... Yeah. In the heavens
or wherever. Yeah. That would would've been handy.
Yeah. I think right now. Because, Ga only,
like, 10 or 20 points more than the
normal mall crusher. Yeah. And quite honestly. I
think the normal mall crusher even though the
Melee profile on the mega boss himself is
4 threes because Go jack is threes and
3.
I think that's still better. Just because he
has anti infantry 1. Right. Yeah have. On
his melee pro. Kinda talk... All the games
you are playing today. People kinda looked at
as, like, infantry really good in this addition.
Yeah. Like
was it somebody took storm cast too and
they took a whole bunch of, like, storm
drink cards all the drag dragon. And and
he didn't win his game. No. And
he looked at your game. And he's like,
yeah, You know what infantry is probably gonna
be the best way to like, win games
because right now, it's like you take all
these monsters are like, big
Cavalry units. I mean, they're not really gonna
do a whole lot of yes. You have
the additional ren and damage, which most infantry
have the buffs and deb bumps Yep to
gain from.
Yeah. Yeah. The eye were probably the best
things in my army. They were... Think... They
just... He just they just hit really hard.
I mean, jeez.
And then just having the armor on top
of it, and then all the d bugs.
And those the guys are the round shield.
There's them, and then the guys with the
grain hammers. Those guys just look at me,
there's 3 damage with their weapons threes.
Yeah. Cro is 4 damage with this with
this... Apex. Yeah. I I am scared of
Kara if he's the kind of that 1.
Because Ron did so much of damage. And
I was surprised by that because I I
knew he was He's not a weak. No.
But I was surprised by how much damage
was actually able to dish out per attack
that you made. Yeah. He's 4 damage with
his mom. Right.
It's just not
I mean, he did... He did 16 damage
with just his mall against that unit of
brute It his chop. Yeah. So my... It's
minus 3 running. He's anti infantry. Yeah. And
because victory 1 run. Yeah. And because we
were able to deep strike my corner where,
like, you know, we said earlier, when my
fifth my 10 brew, my shop and we
boot records in my mega boss on foot
was Yeah. I wasn't really able to move.
Right. So I had a mo grunt, which
is also pretty good. I had a mod
grunt with hacking crews. Think the 1, but
just the normal 1. That thing was crazy.
Yeah. I had 4 weapon profile. Weapon profile.
I could couldn't use the rampage because the
rampage,
I believe it what was it.
I don't remember. It was it was just
something that I I just couldn't accomplish at
least not with what you were sending my
way, which was. I think was chronic Chronic
he was fighting qantas us the whole time,
and I I don't even think I even
damaged him on honestly a. Like, he did
a bunch of who damage to him. Oh,
Did. You put wounds on him. Oh, I
thought only they're like, 2 or 3. That's
No. I was I was locked in combat
with him for. Was I was lucky. I
had I had the freighter near Cro, and
I made a lot of award saves. Okay.
So that was fortunate on my part.
Now. But he he's he's really good, the.
I feel like taking 2 of him in
a might also be pretty worth it because
he's just 1 of the normal monsters Iron
has has. Yep. So it's not like the
heroes because heroes now, something else less building.
Right. That regimen is totally different. Yep. So
let's say you have 3 regiments. They can
be dropped in 3 drops. Yeah. But let's
say, oh, I don't wanna drop like my...
What was it? Like, my mo Right? Maybe
I don't wanna drop him right away. Mh.
So instead of dropping the whole regiment, I'll
just drop him, but now the rest of
the regimen has to be dropped individually.
So you can... You're allowed to do that
as part of, like, your drop, but
breaking up your regimen. I mean, I we
have to go over the rules again I
know because it's like I don't think it
affects, like, who deploy, like, who ends up
finishing deployment first, but I might I think
it might. Yes. Because you have... I was
looking at the deployment rules. Like, You can
deploy everything 1 unit at a time if
you want to, or you can do it
by regimen. Yeah. So I was wondering, like,
how does that work with, like, the this
way the storm cast to deploy in the
heavens. I don't. So may, I don't get
would that whole regimen have to be in
the heavens?
I don't think so. In fact, I was
looking I was thinking about the same thing.
If you got your generals unit and there's
4 more units, that's 5 units. So here's
what I do. I placed the first unit
on the board.
I placed the next unit on the board
because I'm placing the whole regiment. Now I
got 2 units on the board. Those other
2 borough go up in space.
Fifth regimen goes on the fifth if you
when that works. Is deployed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because as you deploy, Yeah. I'm just figuring
if you got a regiment if you can
put them in space, you... But you still
gotta have that many guys on the board,
so you got guys on a board first,
guys in spacex next, but it's all part
of that same regimen. So, yeah, it all
works. And in... That's how I check it
at least.
And then let's offer too. If you have
less than 19 thou... Or 19009... 19 50
points. Yeah. Thousand and 950 points, you do
get an extra command point. If the other
opponent, your person you're playing against does not
have less than 19 50 or match that,
I believe.
I have to go over that again. I
didn't see... I I was some of where
people were talking about that. I didn't see
that in the book anywhere, but I'm sure
it's in there before talking
People lived who's been scouring all these leaks
Like, everything that's been mentioned online, and but,
like, not nothing that's been like word about.
It's always been from the books. So it's
just something that we haven't read yet. Yeah.
But certainly, it's interesting.
Every turn or just at the first turn,
you get plus 1 command point. I I
believe every turn. Oh my god. Because I
believe that would... Someone was tell me this
It's like, oh, well, you have to watch
out for your regimen because if you have,
you know, like, so many regimen and so
many auxiliary, you're gonna give that extra command
points to Yeah. Your opponent. And if you
do that, they're always gonna get a free
charge on you because if you start the
game with 4 command points. Right? Mh. So
then your opponent is gonna start with 5.
And let's say if he plays it right,
he plays underdog, then he's gonna start with
6 following term. Yeah. So 6 command points,
he's basically gonna get a free Yeah. Green
counter truck. I see that every every turn.
That's wild. Yeah. I I did... I was...
I was... I have to see if I
can find Dave's looking for it right now
about that 19 50
thing, but I'm... It's kind of in there
because more than 1 person has mentioned it.
Yeah. I I don't remember where. It might
have been from an article too. Mh. So
I don't know if it was maybe something
not in the core book, but something they
mentioned in the article that you have to
watch out for in the graduate building.
But
on top of that, also, like,
underdog. The game we played, under underdog did
not not take precedence because of the fact
that we did not have any units with
a dominant keywords. Right. Yeah. We never it
never actually happened in our game. Yes. And
reading some of the other
battle plans. A lot of them
might matter a lot for the game, but
then some of them depending on the armies
you're playing or just like how the games
are going, it's just not gonna.
Mattered. Alright. What what exactly was the dominant
keyword, like, what is what it... I think
that did, like, if you took an objective,
from your enemy, you gain
plus 01:10 your cut to your. Yeah. Plus
10. To your control. Control score. Yeah. While
you're while you hold it until they take
it from you, basically. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's
what that that's what that dominant keyword.
Control with control scores. I mean, they're crazy
because I took trophy of sc
for my mega boss on foot. And because
I threw them in there against your con
concussion and your eye against just my roots,
I think was contest it with you. Yep.
I gave him trophy of skulls, which made
his
control value 10:10.
So Yeah. With that, I mean, right there,
I mean, you have a lot of army
abilities. I'm sure that probably change your control
value and that is gonna determine whether I
gonna hold objectives and score points and your
gains. Yeah. That was huge. Because I think
I've
I might have held that. I don't know.
We we didn't really count it up after
your guy. Just stand like. Forget it. You
got it. So oh, yeah. Because I I
had go after you killed the makeup a
boss.
Sitting on that. Yeah. He tried to kill
the ann and Or could not touch them.
Oh my god. It was so sad because
he doesn't have anti inventory. Here as
anti hero and anti monsters, who he's gonna
be a beat stick against heroes at monsters.
Yeah. But a normal law crusher if you're
just trying to pile in into a normal
infantry units. Right.
That's interesting. Yeah. So maybe the next, you'll
try just the normal mock crusher.
Yeah. And then how how that goes. Spare
10 points. So
cc see where I could put that. I
don't know.
No. It's certainly a very interesting, Yeah, addition.
And there's certainly
a good game or good first. Yeah. It
was an interesting. Hey, like, you would never
have seen that iron jaws build in the
last
addition of the game. Like, you didn't have
ignore chant. You didn't have, like, multiple caster.
You didn't. Yeah. That's the problem. Right the
the point values. And then on top of
that, the regimen. So I wanna be beyond
3 regiments because of the fact that I
didn't wanna have more than 3 drops. Because
it seems like what's people talking about nowadays
is the fact that you wanna have 2
to 3 drops just to make it a
little bit more easier for... Yeah.
Yourself against your opponent because you don't know
what someone else is gonna take. Time interrupt.
Army composition advanced rules, 1.2
0.1 under spending. In many cases, the total
point cost of the units in your army
will not add up to the points limits,
but you don't have enough points to another
unit.
If the points cost of your army is
50 or more points lower than the points
limit of the battle, you get an extra
command point at the start of the first
battle round.
It doesn't say anything about competition or if
you're... So it... Basically, if you have a
19 50 lit... If you both have 19
50, you both get a battle point if
a fifth battle point of the star the
first ballot. Oh, you both get in. Okay...
Well, it just says here.
It says,
if the point cost of your army is
50 or more points lower than the points
limit You gain an extra command point at
the start of the first battle route. It
doesn't say anything in here about, but your
opponent has. It's just... If you're at 19
50 less, you get an extra on the
first battle route. Alright.
Only the first battle. But so yeah. So
only the first battle right. So you may
just you may just decide you're writing 19
50 lists because you want that point the
first bet... I don't know.
It's also like it's very hard to reach
2000 in this. Mean I reached 2000 with
this list just by chance, just by chance
and, what did it? I take? Go
his regiment that he was
it was Go drag,
Mob grunt with
hacking crew and,
3 gore grunt. That's regimen 1. Regiment 2
was just the weird op Shaman with 3
weird boot records and, regiment 3. This is
my general regimen.
Mega boss on foot and 3 5 man
brute. That was 2000 points exactly,
which is very interesting for me to see
because before it's like I felt like it
maybe I would fit war in there
Or even, like an additional wizard maybe. But
I think it's in a good place because
now games aren't gonna be so like
what's the word? It's just like... This just
don't have, like a bunch of extra stuff.
You. Water. Yeah have that so much water
side more. Armies are a lot more focused.
Like, I was looking at Jake and was
that, he was playing
Justin Justin Right? There He was playing fire.
And those armies were I was like, how
many points is this? They're like 2000 Like,
oh, man. That doesn't look like very much
under like, nope. Getting me Oh, man. Like,
the fire slayer list was, like, a magma
draw
and, like,
maybe a couple characters and, like, 4 units
of
whatever. You knows those guys I just like,
that's the whole army.
And then Jake... And then Jake's Army was
he had cat.
Had 2 caster
He had 3 of the
mortise, the guard, the big guard guys. Yeah.
And then he had...
And those he guys are competitive. So those
things are Asked. He had he had 2
archives, and then he had
2 units of 10 of the just the
foot troops. I was like, man. Talking about
lists and how they get small. Harrison, and
I were just writing stuff up, just getting
stuff ready. We had 2 2 drop lists.
Okay?
He had a Stone mag with 10 stone
guard, spirit of the mountain, 10 Warden and
10 dawn riders in his
Yep. In his his generals 1. That's 1300
points.
And then the light of ul theory 10
sentinel of Ball and 10 warden again.
That's 6 70. That's his list. That's the
whole army. That's 2000 points a stone mag,
the light of Ethereum,
a unit of 10 stone guard.
A unit of 10 Warden, 10 sentinel, another
10 Warden, 10 dawn riders, a ball and
a spirit of the mountain. So wow
I was writing a list for.
Okay. Chaos lord on a demonic mount. Okay.
2 units of 5 nights and a unit
of 20 warriors. Okay. That's a thousand 80.
And then A gu summon, 2 units of
5 chosen and another unit of 10 warriors.
That's another 08:30. That's 19. That is 19
10 right there, And I didn't have a
90 point or. But there's no 90 point
units. Right? Right So so then you just
get an extra command point. So that's you
know, AAA mounted guy with 2 units of
5 nights. Yeah. And a gu summon, and
there's a unit of 20 warriors, a unit
of 10 warriors, 2 units of 5 chosen.
That's the whole army.
So when you're going to... 2 units of
5 chosen? Yes. Okay. That's pretty good. No.
No. I mean, it's still... I mean, it's
30 warriors, 10 chosen 10 nights. Want someone
in a guy, but it's it's like, that's
would've have that army before would be a
lot. Bigger than that. 6. That's 6 units.
Yeah. I keep looking at that... Well, 6
units and the 2 heroes. So it's 8
units
How am Gonna grab objectives? How am I
gonna do all the things I need to
do? Yeah. To get stuff done with that.
Harrison we were laughing? He's got 2 characters.
Then he's got 4... 5 units of 10
things, which is huge and a spirit of
the mountain. Yeah. And it's like big monster.
Yeah. I mean, he's like, he kept saying
don't have... I'm like, yeah, You're squish than
the Chaos warriors years, but you've got a
lot of models at least on the board.
It seems like, for at least for for
Yeah. Mine was lord. Lord imp,
3 an eye,
3 9 with Graham hammers, 5 ind, a
knight be.
And then the other regiment was cro, 3
freighter, 2 concur and 10 vanguard hunters. That's
your whole list? That's the whole list.
But... I remember I just pointed out to
you Like, that's a small list. It's like,
I don't know. That's 98 wounds with 3
up saves. Yeah.
Bad. Yeah. That's not bad at all. Yeah.
And it's put... And the again sets that
2 drops. And the thing is...
I feel like...
I feel like I want some more heroes.
I know. So it's like... I had 2
hero, I too. I guess I had 3
because the night can go in regimen. Well
and it depends on the army that you're
building. Like, I know the night won't feel
they need a lot of those heroes. Because
I always has always had 6 heroes with
Night on. 5 6 heroes in every night
hunt list. I have 5 heroes and, you
even have 3 or 4 heroes minimum. I...
Yeah, 4 heroes minimum in my slice to
darkness.
Like, can I run it on to? Can
I can't
Yeah? You gotta make a lot of decisions
span. I mean, I'm just thinking about some
of the other armies like S. How the
heck you're gonna run S ash with
2 heroes. Like, like,
nope. Like, how how would you that? That's
what I'm interested to see where this goes
because all talking. Like, it's been 1 day.
And we've all got a lot of ideas,
but we haven't tested
any of them. Right. So it's, like, we
can see where things might go. In fact,
I wanted to talk about the double turn
in a bit. Yeah I was talking about
that with Jay I know he wants to
talk about. They're doing a deep dive on,
was it the jaws of Gallagher prize of
Gallon battle plan. But we're just in any
of the battle plans. Like, yes, you give
up 4 points, but it's like... So before
where you would maybe try to hold that
double turn till later in the game. Yeah.
It's like,
might be a thing where, yeah, you're really
jumping to try to get that double turn.
Early,
you can make up the points later and
losing those points makes you probably put you
in an underdog. But that's that's what you
want. And that's what you want with some
of the battle plans you wanna be the
underdog because that the 1 they were plants,
like, the underdog chooses, like, which
objective goes away? Yeah. They burned objectives in
jaws lake. And that's massive. It's like, I'm
just gonna take all weight your objectives. I'm
gotta sit over here and defend mine,
and now I'm really limiting what battle tactics
you can score against me because some of
our, you know, object... Now you have to
come over here to get me, while trying
to do these really difficult battle tactics because
the the Biotech in this edition are not
Gi. Like they are... No. They're not. They're
they're very hard to achieve. They're they're gonna
take some finesse. To achieve. Yeah. But overall,
I mean, double turns, double turns gonna be...
You're gonna wanna take double turn early on
just because it's, like, let's say your winning
that first turn. Right? You don't want your
opponent to catch up to you. You wanna
continue pressing the combat. If you're, like, example
Chris,
continued with a double turn. And because of
that, all the combat that he did.
We never actually got a double turn. We
we we in turn order. No. We went
a turn order the whole time.
Oh, might have...
We went turn an order the whole time,
because I went first.
You double turned me out.
No. I went first You beat him so
hard. He thought he got double turned. You
you beat. Bam, plant. That that orc looked
around dizzy hack. Like I guess it turned
3 already.
Boys.
Well, III
could see, like, against storm cast or something
also is really tank, like, putting a double
turn into them might not be the your
best move. Yes. It's like, I can't kill
these guys. Like, it's not helping me to
double turn you. No. Because I can't kill
you in the first place. I passed on
several in spear. Because I'm, like you with
this rat?
Rat going against the 3 up armor save.
That was like, no. Don't need... I'm like
why am I taking the double... I I
need to try to get points killing you
is not happening. Exactly. So that might come
into it. You know, depending on who you're
playing. It's like, well, I can take the
dollars and push my advantage to try to
kill you, and it's not... I don't care
about that. That's kind of what they were
saying. It's, like, this edition is not gonna
be, like,
so much killing. The enemy it's gonna be
about board control. Yeah. You're gonna wanna roadblock
certain parts of the board. You're gonna want
to control where your opponent's going because as
long as you can stop them from containing.
Right, like, in controlling it certain objective or
even just, like, if you keep certain units
alive long enough. Yeah. Certainly gonna make a
difference in the game because I felt like,
because Cro was alive, the whole game. Yeah.
Wasn't focusing too much on.
I was worried. About the.
Oh, yeah. Just ann the rest of my
units.
It eventually happened. Eventually, they just sold everything
that was over there and that's because I
could not. Well, that through the Mean At
that 1 turn, like, I had 1 grand
hammer annihilate standing there fighting go and you
did 0 wounds them. For 2 turns, I
think it was, like, for 2 turns, and
the only damage I think I did to
him was with Raven ninja jobs, which I
didn't I didn't really roll too many hits.
Right. Right. So I was just I was
just all about fencing. Yeah. And it was
like, I think I made to made, like,
4 or 5 hits and then you saved,
like, 34I did. I made some really good
saves. I mean, let's put it that way
too. Yeah. But I mean,
3 ups, I mean it's not crazy. You
know what I mean? No. Storm cast is
having to have anyone's new to the game
that's thinking about, like, I don't wanna be,
like, a, like, you know, guy. I'm gonna
be a bad player. It's like, Take storm
cast. Like, no one's gonna fall you forward
because the the whole army. Yeah. The only
thing aesthetically pleasing. I thing I think I
was missing from this from my previous Storm
cast is mobility. Like, I'm used to, like,
teleport boarding around the board.
And
it's it's not a whole lot of that
in here because That's worth the trade off
though. You got. That's free up save. Yeah.
Yeah.
So I might I might work out a
way to get some teleport porting in here
somehow. We maybe was like, like think there's
like, a trans location at me. I I
might swap out something. I don't know I
have to look at it. Yeah. I'm excited
to see Sk because I am certainly picking
up sc with this sk inside box.
And they have a lot of
teleportation shenanigans and Oh yeah all holes and
Yep. And tunnels total skit leap and skit.
Yeah. Yeah Yeah.
It's it's just so much stuff with Sk
that's gonna be very interesting to see. There...
I I wanna say they're gonna be, like
a, you know, like, high there in terms
of, like, how good armies are, But. It's
still... I'm gonna have to play them just
to see gary. Yeah.
Now. Cool.
I'm looking forward to...
III
kinda wanna just keep... Maybe just keep playing
1 army for a while. Just to... That...
That's not... Usually, my style. Usually, I jumper
r to r, but well, it's pretty nice
because the aren't the list are so small.
Yeah. I mean, it doesn't feel like, oh,
I don't wanna take all these models like,
to 1 place and then the other it's
literally...
I feel I can probably carry 2 armies
in my carrying case compared before where I
felt like I need to carry just 1
army. Mh. And that part is really an
just being able to just carry, like, 2
armies with me. I told you could it's
not too much space. Even with iron draws
and sc. I mean, Steven might be pushing
in a little bit because they are a
lot of models there that ton of. If
you take a lot of shooting.
You know, like you take a couple of
warp lighting cannons and you take a couple
of the storm things. I mean, storm fumes
are 260 points.
3 for 3 of them. Yeah. He, I
was on the man. Think I was, like,
man. I wanna take 9. I think 9
was like. Like half army.
Half your army.
But they're pretty good though. I mean, they
have the the grind fist that, like, left
them teleport away too that all their teleport
mechanic They have. Yeah.
No. I'm really happy. They they paired sk
with storm comcast in this box sets because
there's gonna be a lot of parallels. Yeah.
With what they both can do. Maybe not
exactly like, as well, but... I haven't really
looked through the Sc
index? Did they take away all their weapon
teams and all that stuff?
No. Weapon teams are still thin. They are.
So the rattling guns and... The rattling guns
is still there
there. They got rid of gutter runners.
Oh, really? Yeah. I don't... I mean, I
didn't really pay attention in last edition either.
Like, this addition. I was like, oh, where
are they? And I'm like, I, Got runner
Dave night runners.
I think I rid those 2. 0, man.
Yeah. I think Clan
Right Clan Action is just pretty much like...
It... They're still there, but not really. And
then
clam pest. I mean, they got rid of.
I think they got rid of pike monks.
Seriously, they're not in the index or not
a plate got be plate police. I think
it's the plate... Races but the plate pre
on plate furnaces there, which is kinda confused
me because Felt like you have the plate
b some furnace? Yeah. Why would you get
rid of the regular plate interesting. Yeah. It'd
be interesting to see what comes in there
in their new book. If they'll come back
with all these units, You know what I
mean Like, I can't believe they'd get rid
of gutter runners, and night runners and just
clan and is just
Yeah The that is weird. Correct me if
I'm. I don't... I'm not a hundred percent
sure if night
night runners are gone. I just know that
gutter runners no longer at because I I
had tried talking to someone earlier and they
were really sad because Yeah. They had a
couple units those. Yeah. So Got runners used
to be the the cheese ball unit Mh
if of war hammer there are so good.
Poison weapons and just blasted people and doing
all kinds of stuff. Oh my god. Now.
But, dual meals, the doom meal the dual
or they're they're insane. I think it's like,
I think it has, like, d 3 movement
and doom meals now, it's they have like
a special, combat ability where they can move
around wall in combat and go across a
whole bunch of enemy units and I think
whatever I mean units, they roll around into
Think it's, like, roll it 2 up and
whatever you roll fd D34 wireless
which is brutal because it's, like, just imagining
just like, it running around it's cheap. It's
like, a hundred and 70 pounds hundred and
50. It's Wow. It's not too expensive. It's
pretty easy to take. Same of them Doom
players, Doom players, it's gonna be Oh, yeah.
It's gonna be a slot People are gonna
be taking to help fill list because that's
70 points. Okay. So it's a very like.
I still have 1 of the old... They're
they're only, like
only ever metal or resin. Right? Doom flares.
Believe so. It's like it's like it's like
it's like the engineer riding like the big
Yes It's fresh oil. Right? Yes. It's like
a lawn mower. Like a smaller lawn the
yard. Have a plastic 1 in the 8
bed box.
I do here an island of blood did
it not have 1? I hell. Think Maybe
it did maybe it was. It doesn't had
a lot of those Blood had a had
a plague border, which I don't think is
there anymore. No. Unfortunately. That that thing was
cool. I like that thing with the wheel.
That the guy wheel
that was pretty cool. Oh man So you
guys... Obviously, you enjoyed your game. So Yeah.
It was good. Fine. What do you now
what now you've had game, what are you
thinking? Are you thinking of changing your list?
Are you thinking is something to about. Chris
You're gonna stick with? Of course, Chris, I
might stick with this army for a while.
I have to we've determined that it's really
good. It's like, you know, it's not like,
oh, I love these guys, but I can't
win a game with them My I'll stick
with a while. Yeah. You I guess, The
only thing I was wishing I would have
was be a little bit more mobility with,
like... Because that used to be the problem
when I was playing stroke as is you
just, like, once you do your initial
drop she'll drop me. That's it. Your guys
are pretty much where they're gonna be because
they're so slow. 4 inch moves. Yeah. Yeah.
Mean the Vanguard hunters are neat because they
get to pick a hunted unit and they
get plus 2 to their moves. So now
they're moving 7 and then they can they
can run and charge running shoot. So their
max range is pretty good. Yeah. I was
surprised after you told me what that meant
and I'm wondering that's really good Pretty good.
Just for, well, how many was it, like,
10 models? 10:10 Vanguard hunters 10 ben Yeah
It's like 260 points.
But, I mean, the stuff that they can
do is pretty good. Yeah. You know what
I mean? They're fast, which is what you
need to, like, do some of these battle
tactics I think. Mh.
But maybe like, I don't know. Maybe like,
prosecutors might be unique because they're so fast
for doing some of these battle tactics because
you need to be in the center, need
to be on the flanks. You need to,
you know,
yeah. I think prosecutors are definitely the way
to go with storm cast. At least you're
you're talking about competitively just because they get
to They have a lot of movement. They
do. So super fast.
With my list, I feel while Go is
good in some aspects. I'll probably take the
normal mock crusher just because it's
has anti channel. Like, infantry is gonna be
very, very big this condition. If you're... You're
facing a a bunch of armies in a,
like, a 1 day event, 2 day event,
probably just go anti infantry has to be
safe because you don't know what you're gonna
get paired up with, But if you're having
casual games. I mean, it's fine to
cater your list to wherever whoever you're facing.
But
while gore drag is. I feel like Mock
crusher, the normal 1 is probably a little
bit better. And then you could put enhancements
on him. Mh. So that's also gonna make
him a little bit more work again. Like
I know people were telling me that to
too. Like, I don't I want, like Or
eggs and the the start of fourth edition
in the Launch day. So... That's a good
plan. Yeah.
So let me ask you this.
Obviously, 1,
well, not counting armies that have become legends.
Outside of the renegade Armies,
the orcs got,
the there... There's a lot of changes in
their Oh faction pack. I mean, basically, they
they are 2 separate factions in 1 book.
They can't be mixed anymore.
So now that you you've played some of
your iron jaws. What do you think? I
mean, I I look at it, and I'm
like, there... I like them both, but they
both... I mean, it's I don't know if
they feel like a half and... I, I
guess, they don't really have that much fewer
units than some of these other armies, but
it feels like when you put that little...
That cut that book in half,
To me, it still feels like you are
really limited
on what you've got. So where... What how
do you... What do you think about it?
I know you love playing your iron jaws.
So what what what kind of potential do
you think they have?
So right now with iron ing. I mean,
I can't really say whether or not they're
missing anything. I mean, they have a whole
lot going on for them. I feel like
I had... I need to experience brew razors
a little bit more. The weird boot records
are really good just for having the 5
up award and being able to run and
charge.
But the same time it's
cool boys. I... I've had both armies. Right?
Cool boys that didn't like last edition just
for the way they played. In this edition,
they seem really good. They seem like they're
gonna be 1 of the more competitive
factions that you're gonna see in the competitive
scene. But for me, I just don't like
cruel boys. I I feel like, after, like,
my love hate relationship with them. At 1
point I own, like, 4000 points of them
just to, like, try out so many different
lists.
And I just couldn't sell on anything. Like,
I tried, like, all the damage. I tried
just all range. It's just it's a very
niche army to get into because you need
to use all your it to your benefit.
And this addition is
certainly for them because they're gonna get all
the cri mortals. Yeah. On those sixes. And
on top of that, too, it's like they
have a whole lot of buffs and deb
bumps army wide. With all their heroes. Now
the problem that I have right now
with cruel boys. I I think it might
just be the fact that you can't take
as many heroes because nobody's gonna take that
many heroes with how many regiments you're allowed
to. Like, not allowed to take, but what
you should be taking. So that way you're
old, you're not giving your opponent a 1
up, which is the only thing I don't
like, I think is, like, you're gonna give
your opponent in an advantage if you take
more than probably 3 regiments. And if you
take a whole bunch of auxiliary units. Yeah.
Maybe so maybe like a list building things,
maybe just don't care. You you know what
I mean, I Don't like to think about
it. Hey Just gonna... I'm just gonna take
5 regiments. I don't okay care. I don't
care if you... Are gonna I would deploy
me. Like, whatever. I'm gonna bring what I
wanna bring. Right. And I think it's to
my advantage... Because you gotta see how... You
gotta see how it works. Yeah. I mean,
you... At at some point, we're gonna have
to try armies that have more drops. Yeah.
Just to see if there's a benefit, you
know, because I keep writing this going,
you know, I got 2 characters. I got
2 spells total. Like,
I I throw something defensive on and maybe
I can throw out a,
you know, an endless spell like... Yeah. I
feel I just
And maybe it's just because I'm so used
to been playing for the last 10 years
playing some hero hammer where it's, like, I
always have 4 5 hero list. You know,
They don't take a 1 hero list. Too
often. Right. So I'm
I'm I feel
confused.
Because I feel like there's some good stuff
in this 2 Yeah. This 2 dry list
and it's solid, but it's like, wow. Mh.
But then it's like, what else am I
gonna drop? I I have I have 2
different
you know, 9 unit
armies, what unit am I gonna drop to
throw in another hero? It's a.
I mean you can put other heroes in,
like, your general's regiment.
Usually only up to 1. And if you
look the armies. It's a question of how
many different guys can do it because, like,
you could take a the banner guy. Well,
how many many guys do I need to
take? How many guys I wanna put those
into separate units? Yeah. And a lot of
times it's to, like, the 2 guys. It's
like, do you could take this guy or
this guy the unit. Okay. So that... Right.
Because what you're not allowed to do is,
like,
take, like, a great uncle clean 1 and
then put in
a different
hero in his regimen. Like, that's We're not
allowed to do that. Right? Mean, that's the
other thing. Right? Unless it says. Unless you
said, like, you can't put, like, a, you
know, like, you can't put meticulous slime in
the same regimen as they're great on clean.
That's just not a thing. Good they they
have to have their own regiments.
And, you know, I'm very curious what they're
gonna do with limiting units because last edition,
they try to limit people with units, Like,
the storm drake guard. I think they... Didn't
they limit them till, like, you only take
2 of them per list
I feel like that thousand thing. I remember
something about, someone saying they had they couldn't
take, like, their 6 or 8 storm drake
guard list anymore. I think you could still
do that. Like, like now you can. I
know know that you could before. You could.
You could take an all storm drake guard,
Army because you could take, like, the night
draco hone
and then, like,
it it was, like, an kona 3, 3
units of 2 and then a single. I
think was exactly like the 2000. Yeah.
No. But you... You're right. Mean you shouldn't
really care about regimen. I'm only thinking about
it in the sense that I play a
lot of competitive games. Yeah. A lot of
people are just always so Right pressed over
how this building should Oh, yeah. I mean,
the the environment... The environment we're in right
now is
we're in, like, you know, the competitive.
No. I, this is broken this on broken
ranks wherever club. Like, it's competitive focus. So
everyone here is just like... I I'm very
much, like, I'm mean I'm in this group,
but I I know from for a fact.
I'm probably 1 of the few people that
play very fun list. I don't really care
if I when. I'm just here to have
fun with people and just have a good
time. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. No. That's good.
Cool.
I care if I win. I just can't...
I can't do anything about it. So
So is there anything else you guys wanted
to touch on? Anything that happened today, Anything
you played, anything you wanna talk about? Because
I... I'm open to anything?
Well, you spoke about you know, like legend
army not matter a minute ago. But, Andrew
right here,
another fellow broken ranks member came up,
do you wanna say anything because he's a
Beast of chaos player.
Do you... Because you played Chaos just now.
Right? Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I just played a a game and
I'm impressed just on the fact that, well,
they gave us an army that a functioning
army that that I think Kaye can beat.
I I just... I won that and we
had to call it early, but
there really wasn't a way that he was
gonna come back from it.
So...
So that worked for you. So you were...
You. Yeah. Because I saw your army back
there, because you had the
you had the
what was... It was a piece took chaos
Sorry. So what did you have out there?
You had what did you bring?
Well,
for my first game, I decided to just
bring
everything I could. Okay. So I had a...
So
I had a decent mix of
Ray, War herd
and the
the S with with the
the what thunder, which is... Right. Yeah.
And so you're crushing with it Honestly, so
it's working... Well, the oh.
All the units that I brought definitely felt
like they all did something.
Right?
And for the most part, every unit in
the book seems fairly well balanced.
Minus, like, 1 or 2 units that I
just didn't even bother the bring. There has
not been much discussion about this because I
think a lot of people are like, oh,
I'm not gonna be able to use it
in a year.
They're not gonna update. It's gonna be terrible.
But
I saw you had it. And so I
was sitting over here for part. I started
looking through my heat broke piece. So I
I hadn't even really looked too much at
the at the list.
They...
It it feels like they spent just as
much time on that list as they spent
on every other list, making sure that that
is a list that has got everything it
needs and is and has got updates and
has made the all the right tweaks
to be a decent playable army
for the next year. Like, you know, in
a year, they're not gonna update it anymore.
So it's not gonna be tournament league You
can still play it, but we're not gonna
update.
But I was surprised how much...
An it seemed like they actually put a
lot of that care and effort into it.
So, yeah, you only got a year, but
they they at least try to give you
a a decent year. I I guess that...
I don't know how... It's a workable army.
Yeah. Because, yeah. My biggest fear was that
I'd get it and they wouldn't give it
any flavor. Like, none of the units would
have any special abilities or anything like, no.
They have full.
Each unit has a special ability that feels
in line with what they had before,
they fixed some of the units that were
kind of failing before,
the the S was really impressive. Yeah. He
was not good in the last game the
last said, No. No. You you never took
him in the last. And not because it
was bad. It was just way over. Yeah.
Have a really cool on too. I always
wanted to use. I'm like,
It's got... Now right now, the the point
it's still about the same cost, but now
it's actually worth it on the table.
So you gonna keep playing it? Yeah. I
was gonna the plan wants to play beast
of chaos for as long as I can
anyway. Well, there you go. Folks. I mean,
you may not have forever with, but at
least of the of the few that are
gone, you know, maybe I don't... I wonder
how the works are are on their own,
but did date. And that's great because I
know that there's... I mean, it's not the
most played army, but it people who play
it and Love it. And and I love
the models. I was surprised because it did
get a few new models. I was surprised
when this happened, but I'm glad it's working
for you, man.
I... I'm just wondering if games works that
might... Change their mind Like, why why couldn't
you just keep playing base of chaos with
the index. If you really wanted to? You
just acknowledge back, I'm never gonna get an
Army book. And I don't care. I'm just
gonna keep playing this.
You I mean, you totally can. I mean,
it's not gonna be legal in
games workshop sponsored tournaments,
which That's that's a very small portion of
games played. I'm certain a come July of
next year if you're still playing it. I'm
certain there's people in the group who will
play with him. I I'd be shocked if
the room was like, nah that.
That's no longer tournament legal. That's a adapted
con like, Def john's is gonna be like,
okay. We're gonna play this tournament and it's...
You know, whatever 2 years from now. And
they're like, and if you wanna play your
Legends, beast of chaos or
sack... Saint chamber, go for it. Like, it's...
We're still gonna allow it. Like, IIIII
right. I don't know why you wouldn't. We're
I... Oh, yeah. Oh, I agree.
Again, I'm just... I am surprised that they
gave us A0II
do believe I've heard a lot of the
the main rumor is that they're trying... They
don't want it in because it's part of
old world. Yeah. They're trying to separate them
and they don't want
They don't want they don't want cross play
between the different,
the different game systems, which...
I I really don't They don't see it
as them. Problem honestly. Right? Yeah. Like, I
mean, it's, like... And then it's, like, that
then, like, the retiring the model thing all
your cyber saying Chamber stuff, like, what 1
why? Like, a who every everything I've heard
from any... Like... And it's... I guess, it's
none of it's official, but it's always... It's...
It always comes down to. This is the
way the company divide, and this is how
they determine where the sales go, the credit
to the sales go.
And so it can't be split between the
2 separate things, so they know who... And
it's it seems insane to me. You have
you have cross potential. Right. They literally have
cross potential. Yeah. People could play both. They
could sell... They could sell
round bases in the square bases. Yeah. For
those models. Like, they could actually just come
out with the with the... Their own the...
This is the conversion. Yeah. That the pops
in here pops right out, Play both. Ways.
Even players have been doing that for...
Exactly
exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, something
just what you said about, like... Splitting them,
it's like what they did with Works. Now
they don't want you to have big wall
anymore. And I thought it was because that
they were too good. But now I mean,
it's it's simply just because they wanna separate
the fashions factions for their identities. You know,
iron jaw crew boys and no more bone
split is, because because bone split is well
Old world. That's why they replaced those art
boys To the new Art boy
model. The 1 that looks more, like a,
like, a brute rather than, like, a black
work. Right. And I don't hate it, but
it it's certainly driving that fact that they
wanted to separate. And I feel like the
reason why they didn't do a range refresh
for beast chaos. It's probably because it just
wasn't like, like you said, it's about the
profits and the margin they see and how
many piece of chaos players there are out
there. And because they've always used their old
models, they probably just assume they're not gonna
buy the new stuff.
That's yeah it
yeah sense.
Makes sense
Yes. So I just wonder, like, after a
year, are you gonna, like, get a different
army? Like you've already got a bunch of
z stuff in your list. So maybe that's
the natural evolution.
I'm gonna I'm gonna keep with the beast
as long as far. As long as I
can. I mean, I do actually have a
decent,
amount of z. Yeah. Which I think I
will try to play some of that. Yeah.
Though at the same time, you'll see that
beast of chaos,
like, just the faction in a whole,
like, sandwich
real well as proxies for slaves to darkness.
Okay. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah It might be
some units that I... That I'll get new
models for, but Yeah. But, like,
I mean, I let's see Best are, like,
perfect proxies for
for chosen. Warriors more for warriors. Warriors.
The un are perfect proxies for the... Yeah
the Mara broader. Yeah. Yeah. You got Cent
tar. Because chosen are on different bases they're
on
forties.
And warriors are in 30 twos.
So that's like you're enlightened. Right? Like, there's
our own
actually fit right in there So if you
like, took enlightened or even the the slam
wars or makeup or I would even make
up my own for, like, a different ones.
Like, you take the landlords and say these
are the The. Chosen with Yeah. That are
marked of S ash. Yeah. All, sure. Of
the Dan gore and Enlighten are the chosen
mark of
each. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Not that anyone would
ever take mark of each for anything.
I hear you, though. Yeah. I mean, at
least... I don't think anyone have a problem
with it. I also don't think anyone ever
have a problem but just continuing to play
the beast Chaos army. Mh. I like... Mh.
I don't see why that would be a
thing. It's it's a functioning army. Yeah. Which
is
again, I'm shocked, but I'm also grateful for.
Yeah. I mean, there's... Yeah. Sure. You don't
never get a battle tone, but whatever.
What Mean, I... I don't know if that's
a big deal.
I mean, just... I mean, for that, just
ask, what were they the... No, not great
nights the the
the custodian. Ask for them how well that
went.
Ask them how well getting codex works for
them.
Well, they... Like I said, they said you've
got a year
to play it. And
that's a year for them to change their
minds.
I agree. But I gotta, I mean, I'm
I'm glad
that
they gave you a year to play it
and it wasn't like, yeah. You could play...
But they gave you something that you can
at least work with and have fun. And
so I could see them I I could
see them bringing him back later on. The
same went just with a a refresh
like, a full range refresh similar to what,
or were they... What were they called
Ce God. Oh, sure. Because they got a
they got an almost full to range refresh.
Yeah. There's just a few things that are
hanging back. Right. And I think that's all
visa the chaos would need, because then you
would have
new models that would be for the different
gaming system.
Mh. Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I mean... And
then then Beast are in Ios lore. I
mean, they're Yeah. They're still in the lord.
They're they're in the lord. It's like... Even
though the lord that they gave me, the
the fresh lure is. It's still like they're
there. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Cool. They might be
taking a back foot or they might they
might take a take a 2 or 3
years off. Hopefully, they do come back there.
Right? Oh, that's like the sac. That's like
the sac sync. They're not going away. They're
just going back to their old job. Yeah.
Of working on the problem. Of the ref
forging instead of being sent down because now
they got another guy to do that job.
So...
Alright. So we got anything else?
I'm good. Alright. Hello,
You know, I was just gonna follow up
with Visa chaos with the bone splitter I
mean, I didn't personally play bone split as.
I had a couple models for them. But
overall, I mean, I'm glad that at least
hearing Visa chaos doing well. I hope bone
split... Bone split look pretty good to me.
I glance at them.
I don't like how they're just kinda like
putting them back into old the world because,
yeah. I know they're old models But like,
yeah. In a couple of years, I probably
see them bringing them back into the story
because right now, the Visa chaos, they're... They
weren't, like, a major part of the story,
but they weren't a small part of it
and know matter of the fact. Yeah. They
they shaped the the map in a lot
of cases. Yeah. And with Bone split is
it's, like, I didn't really hear hole about
them in this past edition, which already kinda
convinced me why they're Yeah. They're in the
last Allison toll book. Okay. So there... Yeah.
There there you go. III didn't know that.
Yeah. Okay. So I mean, I could see
them just
surprising us, but I don't see that I
don't see it anytime soon. Yeah. Like, that
I could see them coming out with a
whole new set here's a savage or faction
or bone splitter as it were...
I I think they would want to re...
I think they would want to
freshen up what they have more first, the
iron jaws and the cruel boys.
I mean,
maybe they slot them into 1 of those,
but I I don't know if I'd really
see that. It's gonna it's definitely gonna be
2 battle too. So it's gonna be 1
battle too for iron jaws and another 1
for cruel boys. They're not gonna put him
in the same boat. Do you think so?
Yeah.
Yeah. I just... But that... Oh, god. That
just feels. I I don't... I just... I
that puts a bad taste in my mouth.
I it... You know,
I'd rather now like, now you can't mix
some, but I'm really hoping when the next
book comes out that you can mix. Like,
they fix it. Like, they fix it back
to being a, something that you could have
a great wall with. Feel like putting fires
be, like, putting fires there, k in the
same boat.
Well, no... I mean, those are so wildly
different. These are still similar enough or they
could be. You give them a couple more
models and then rework the rules. That's what
I'm wondering is if they're just look, we
we haven't reworked all the this stuff when
the new book comes out because you never
know the book could be different. It could
have a couple extra models,
and they could be working now, but for
now, we just keep it apart because we
don't have it fixed. If it does go
to 2 separates, I hope they at least
get a few more... A few new things
on each side just to make it. Well,
I mean, the iron ore supplement kind of
beef out that 1. That wasn't too bad.
4 units.
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like with the iron
jaws getting their supplement, now the
cruel boys will get their supplement when that...
Whenever they Next a book.
Because they're
Cro boys feel like don't feel like a
full enough army. Like, they might need a...
Well, they got too battle. Right? Too bad
I knew. That's it. Well,
I think I got... Well, I mean, actually
you don't have battle Be. What does that?
Yeah definitely doesn't mean
mean Yeah. 2 battle units. Yeah. But 2
like... They have basically 2 2 basic infantry
type units exactly. Yeah. So I'd like to
see some That's what I'm saying. It... Next
book either you've got a beef from both
up
or if you don't beef from both up,
gotta find a way to make them make
a mix again, and I'm hoping I'm hoping
it's the mix because I like the mix.
I I think we're gonna see them more
with, like, regiments are renowned. Like, we seen
a couple of them, like, how they're gonna
be able to fit into certain, like factions
even though they're not like the same faction,
but like the same grand alliance at least.
So
I think we we might see some of
those
at least in cool boys and iron draws
like, going in hand in hand. Otherwise, I
don't see how they're gonna be able to
make some unless they go back. And say
they're gonna do big w because so far,
as far as we know, like, the... Big
w just doesn't exist anymore. No. It doesn't.
No. Yeah. So
I mean, with that, I mean, yeah, we
had 5 iron draw units come out in
the past here because it was the hero
mod hunter, the 2 monster mob hunters that
you can do as, like a go and
then the 1 with a hacking crew, and
then really brute rangers and then the weird
brute rec.
Which...
I mean, having just, like, 5 more miles.
I mean, I think Iron jobs has already
flushed out because you got your Calvary, that
your gore grunt. You know, you got your
You got your infantry and you got your
heavier infantry. And, I mean, they have enough
heroes for both sides. You got your mega
boss, You know, you got your war chance.
Your bit your art boy big boss. Yeah.
The am smash. Yeah. The wizard. I think
maybe just 1 more wizard for draws. If
that, but, like iron jars aren't wizard. So
I don't really see them in doing the
wizard. So you don't have a huge variety
of unit types. But then again, Or aren't
a huge variety. Like, that we or they
smash. So how many right how many
how many varieties of unit do you need?
Like, they got these guys and then they
got those really big guys over there. Right.
Like, you got big and bigger. Those are
your options.
And you don't need many more options when
you're playing Arcs. I get it. You know?
I just... Maybe it's just me. I just
don't like all these books and it's, like,
got another book, another book and another book,
and it's like, 12 units, and I'm just
like, this is why you should just have
free rolls.
The both that always gets me in that
is the fire book. That 1 is worst.
It's just an abe... It's like 5 units.
It's like, gosh.
Yeah. It's heroes on the mag or not
on the mag. Yeah. And then there's
2 kits. This kit makes these 2 things,
and this kit makes these 2 things. And
they're basically the same thing. Just different weapon
load outs and they give them a different
name. It's banana. Is it's bananas.
Yeah. It's said that that book just baffles
me. Like, they... Why haven't they done anything
else with this? Like, they've gotta have and
there's potential. There's so much cool stuff you
could do. They're... Work cry list. They're the
the work cry unit was like the biggest...
Yeah. That's yeah. You're right. That was like
their big thing. Like, hey.
Yeah. Because there's some variety. Even in the
work car unit, it's like, this is something
that seems a little different. It's pretty good.
Makes except a little mini the mini magma
draw. That the kindle drive. Right? That's yeah.
Thing's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get some more
of that. Let's get some variety going going
on. Yeah. I feel like they could use
it. Some sort of artillery piece or...
Like,
yeah. I I feel like they could use
some sort of artillery piece or, like,
for
Like a cavalry reunion. Yeah. Like a like
a light cavalry unit. Not... Those mini magna
drops. You have them right in on those.
That would be
ridiculously
cool. That would be so awesome. Just
angry
note. And those half of those guys, we've
seen them They don't wear pants.
So there they are just commando in it,
free going on this big sc magma draw
with hot lava blood, just riding into battle
cranky and angry and all burning up. This
is... I want that so bad. I will
I will start that army if they come
up with the little... With with mini magna
have. I will I will... I'm saying right
now, if they come out with it, I'm
gonna have to commit and paint, and I'm
gonna hate every minute of painting. It's gonna
be at 3 colors for every stupid model
because every... It's... They all look identical no
matter what they are. Not every model needs
an axe in that army.
Yeah. They... I mean, but in my hammer,
that's very dwarf.
Yeah. I mean, it the cave elves hammers
and picks. If they can do that, then
you can give him
Harrison still hey, that those elves have hammers.
And I'm like, nah it's okay.
But yeah. I mean, there's so much...
I'm... I've had weapons smith. You can find
a different weapon that works. I've had so
many...
I've had so many...
Like, talks with people today and so many
different armies in here and everybody playing there
would having have a good time, and this
is just like first day stuff. And
Honestly, I feel like
I've been to a lot of first day
not as many as you, Chris,
but, you know, net new edition comes out
and
confusion and questions, and I'm not certain how
this works. And
none of that today. Ever everyone's, like, played
my game was pretty cool. I missed a
few things. We got some stuff to do.
But there was none of that,
you know, I mean, I had to keep
checking for stuff just because things are different
now. Yeah. It's... And it's like, very minor
thing. It's like, oh, no. This guy now
hits on a 3 instead of a 4.
But
outside of that, none of the rules are
confusing. I I never felt like, I didn't
have a full grasp of the rule when
I looked directly at it.
Yeah. No. I mean, it's... It it the
the the the rules are built, I said,
Harrison said it best. He he played the
game and he saw all the things and
he's, like, with... Especially with the color coding,
he's like, this plays like an algorithm.
And I said, well, the guy who wrote
you know, these guys did video games Like,
they did I like, he was, oh, okay.
Makes perfect. Like, now I know what I'm
doing. And it's so funny because like,
for these types of games, video game design
rules don't always work because you've got all
these different videos where right? Now they figured
it out, man.
We all had great games they win or
lose. Everybody had a lot of fun, and
I still remember when Eighth. Up, and I
was listening and they had those first day
games and the people who were playing. I
remember listening to Pod hammer and Dave like,
quit at the end of the day. They
were doing that 24 hours. They were all
playing Saying,
and he would he would playing... He played
vampire counts, and they were the broken seventh,
1 of the top 3, and now they
didn't work the way he did, and he's,
like, this game... I can't do it. And
you saw an age of... Well,
yeah. Ages sigma dropped. But let's pretend once
they actually made the rules. Second After second
edition, there was still a third edition. I
had so many questions. I was playing things
wrong. Doing mistake. Here I feel like I've
got it. So well they did really well
with this edition that I learned with playing
with Chris in our game was the fact
everything's color coded.
So you pick up really fast and colors
and when everything happens during which phases Like,
okay. Look for the gold. Your hero face.
Look for gold. Combat face. Look for red.
Would I got any specials? Yeah.
And on top of that too, it's like
the wording. I mean, they realize a lot
of people were having trouble with worrying in
their edition. Because some of this stuff it's
capitalized, you know, like capitalized,
like, your turn, end of turn.
Only hero phase like, stuff like that... And
like, that really helps out because it's like,
I don't have to think about it. It's
like, well, what what do they mean by
this? Because the the way they wrote some
things in third addition was just kind of
like, unnecessary. And then at the same time,
like, it could be... It could have been
solved by that by capitalizing
some of the words. Yeah. I think part
of it was... You had... It wasn't... I
don't think every book was put up by
the same by people. Like, you know, different
people are in different books, and they would
word things slightly differently. Right? And they think
they're writing the same... I mean, you know,
you... Like I said, it's obviously the same
rule But the way it's worded here and
the way it's worded there are just slightly
different, and it makes you think well, wait
is did I make, you know, Like, I
came with that thing with the 2 plus
when we found the 1 that was worded
differently. And it's like, well, that's worded it
differently. So is that
to... Does is this purposely
this way? Then you go and read the
rule and the rules explains it. But they
they have everything, how all the units are
very... Like... And The uniqueness is still there,
but now everything is worded the same way.
Exactly.
Everyone's
instrument does the same thing. Everyone's
banner. Does the same thing. It's not like
and I'm and I'm not begging on the
game. Okay. I'm not trying to make fun,
but when Man put out kings of war.
Okay? Does like, they had that universal rule
stuff, and they took it to an extreme
where,
like, if you had a fireball or an
ice blast or anything that was a a
magical shooting attack. They just called zap.
Zap. Yeah. Light? And it could be whatever
it was, it got... That was across the
board so generic. When you named the thing
that, and everybody just had that, It didn't
work here. Everyone's got their own stuff. But
it's got that simple. It's... Here's a here's
a,
you know, you gave it this rule, this
wording. And so now the wording works across
for the ruling, but you still have... That
variety in other parts. The fact that you
got the the abilities built
into the weapon
profile of That's huge. Yeah. In fact, I
noticed the only way it didn't, and I
know Mentioned it before. And so no one's
mortals do mortals on... Role of a 6
to hit. The only time the rule winds
up not being in the weapon profile and
going into a special rule is... And and
I noticed this. So,
Cri mortals.
Cri is the thing when you create and
the effect in parenthesis as mortals.
So it's a thing with its effect. When
the thing you do causes a thing with
an effect. So, like,
if I do charge plus 1 damage, that's
in the rules. But charge
does
cri mortals
won't be in the rules. That'll be as
a special written rule underneath their stats because
charge... It's not charge plus 1. Charge that
it's charge sets off another rule. So that's
the only time it's not up there. And
I'm glad they did it that way. It
keeps it... Very... Everything is in its place.
There's nothing extra. It just
works. And then at the bottom of every
raw scroll, you also have the keywords, which
has really help full because it's not just
keywords. Let's say your unit has award, but
you don't know if they have award because
it's just mentioned, you know, in just like
the faction pack Right? Right. Well, now it's
in Parentheses word 5 up. Yeah. You know,
you don't even have to like It's a
double row of keywords now because you've got,
like, a special rule keywords and then you've
got your your your identity keywords. And it's
just ward, whatever. It's not
it's not like
ab bo flesh, 5 award or... Yeah. I
don't have to have a fancy word with
it. I don't need a don't have to
call it something. Yeah. It's just ward whatever
the ward is. And
same for all the other abilities. Like, like,
again, like, cri mortals. It's just cri mortals
on the hit replaces the attack sequence as
mortals, whatever the damage was. Yeah. You you
don't need all that wording is it's just
there. It's just we all know what it
As soon as you know K mean sixes.
And then in the parenthesis, what that does,
it's just...
It flows. It says simple. I'm not having
to look through pages and pages and pages.
And even with the rules underneath, like, you
said, they're color coded.
So I don't have to stop and look
at all of my war scrolls in the
hero phase. I've got them all laid out.
I'm looking for gold.
Okay? And I'm looking, you know, in the...
And
it it it's
visually easier to find rules. Like, they just
did everything right here as far as the
the rules constructs she goes. Now, you can
argue it, you know, this guy's pointed too
much. That rule stupid. That's not what I'm
talking about. I'm saying that the actual structure
she the the of of the of the
rules, the way they're put together is just
tight and so easy to
understand. And, you know, I was talking to
someone earlier, and
I who was, but someone was telling me
how they always improve on the next edition
for age of Sigma after the last, like,
this most recent edition of 40 k. But
because they're gonna see what works what doesn't
work. I mean, the whole thing with Spear.
I feel like it's a basically
combat patrol, but what they wanted to do
with comp patrol because I feel like if
they would done this with Combat patrol, it
would have been a lot more popular. I'm
not saying it's not popular now. But it's
like combat patrol because I've never played a
handful of combat patrol game because I've never
played it and like, here's the thing. Half
the people tell me that it's
exactly the same as this. This is gonna
be garbage because that's garbage are the exact.
And some of the... It's not even close
to the same. They've changed it a lot
the same. Okay. And that's because I haven't
played. That's the 1 thing I don't know.
No. I mean, with combat Patrol, it... You
don't draw cards. First off, Combat Patrol. Combat
patrol is... More or less Smallest as game
of war. It's just a small game of
04:40 k with specifically
specific war scrolls or specific
unit car. That's a that's the only difference.
And and and the list are balanced against
each other at all.
Like Yeah. That's... Yeah.
Yeah. No. I I don't like when people
will compare it because, like I understand the
reason why they do and it's because it's...
Similar. That's why they compare. But it is
certainly a big divide because combat patrols, it's
like, you... Yeah. I mean, you could see
your combat patrol and like, the 40 k
ass Right? And like, you see everything there
with, like the special rules and enhancements they
get. Mh. But with this, it's, like, you
get more, like, the the the board first
off, is more interactive I feel because it
is printed on the, like, the sheet. Right?
You get
the enhancements and everything for your army. Bit
on top of that as well.
The twist cards and the command
slash battle tactic cards. That is what makes
it vastly different
Yeah, like, I already stated. Yeah.
Although, I know. I kinda like Enjoyed my
the few games of,
combat combat patrol that I... That I did
play back in the day, but it was
really more of a... Here's how you play
the main game just
without all the... Without getting
too bogged down by all the same rules
because there all it was is that you
you had the units played pretty much the
same, but they would have, like,
certain rules they just wouldn't put in just
so just to
slow... Just so that would be easier to
remember everything. And I I enjoyed it. I
thought it was balanced
mostly.
III do... I could see where certain units
though or certain armies definitely had a greater
advantage. I can't say I've had the same
experience with
the new 1 for for spear. Yep. Because
I'm I'm not playing spear your because I
can't place spear with Beast. Right. It's okay.
You see the the the big problem who
with Cabo patrols, like, they limit you certain
factions. Like, for example, the custodian,
I think it's like the the jet bikes.
Right? You can't take those. Like, either you
pick the jet bikes or you pick
I forgot what was the other option? I
think maybe terminator. The the the determine... Like
the either terminator areas. Well, that that's the
same with the. That's the same with spear.
You you pick there already main armies. But
that's the thing though, you don't have to
pick and choose with climate patrol there's certain
fashions that are, like, okay, But you can
take this, but you can't take this. And,
like, the... They're
description of the comment patrol. But this, it's
like, for spear,
you have everything in front of you. You
don't have to pick it is all that
you have to take right there in front
of you The Dash 1 it's like, is
the the Dash one's, like, the only only
1 the main 1 that I could think
over. It's like, she doesn't come in until,
like, turn. 3.
Because if she came in and, like, the
very beginning they that listen would just just
destroy everything.
Like, she's so she's just so good. She
was just kill everything. So they doesn't come
in until turn 3, which just makes it
fair. You know?
And then the... They tried to fix some
of that in combat patrol, like, like, you
were saying with, like, pick this or this,
You know, like, the great night once it's,
either pick the pick that...
I was out Gets it's like, the tournament
it's like Terminator over the Nemesis dread night.
Like, pick 1 and them, like, oh, I
didn't know. I know they changed the because
they did. I've haven't inflated it since the
the... When it first came out, and it
was just... Very simple. Where... Yep. Yep. Again,
it was prem made armies that you could
fight each other. Yeah. The war squirrels are
all this... Same. I don't think they have
combat patrol, quote unquote war scrolls. It's just
the same 1.
Again, like, the worst girls are slightly different
for combat patrol. Are there they're they're Again,
because... I guess they are cooked into the
list aren't things. And, the the rules are.
Were slim down
because, like,
Like, I I remember, like, 1 unit I
had could do mortal wounds in the in
the base game, but they took that out
of combat patrol. Just so that it wouldn't
cook the other armies. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Well,
man... Yeah. I but this... Like Guess we're
trying to say is they put a lot
more time. Oh. Yes. Your head version of
the... Your head it has like a different.
It's. Completely different game. Mean honestly, it's just
completely lit It's cut... You know what? It
kind of reminds me more of. I mean
a more dynamic
version of...
What was that?
Underworld. Yeah. That's what Dave was saying from
the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. I said beginning because
it's got the card mechanic get the 3
cards per turn just like that. And those
are the cards how you score except instead
it... Now you got this the different thing
on the bottom. The Alright. I think this
is underworld, but good.
And I mean, there's people who like underworld.
I'm not picking on it. For me to...
Underworld is not for me. Like, I liked
it in the beginning. Mh. I guy and
got behind didn't get caught up, and then
when they put out all the new stuff
with the noodles, I was already kinda out
on it. And that's fine.
I don't play every game they play. Yeah.
I know the new version better. I'm just
like, but. I'll stuck with underworld for, like,
the first 2 seasons, but
when they hit the third season, and it
was all, like, while, some cards are game
being retired. Yep. That was out used, and
it's like, no. No. I you you got...
There you they wanted... They wanted you to
constantly buy into it. That's what... But that's
why I stopped playing magic for the same
reason. You. Like a long time ago. You
know? I mean, we came in up was,
like the third round. Cards that came out.
Like, we were buying cards and playing with
our friends and not worried about collecting them
I'm just buying cards and plan. And what
was it? When you can go and buy
a box of boosters, And I... We were,
like, 3 cards short of having everything. And
we're like, okay. We trade our friends fine.
Those couple cards. Was great. Once we were
buying it, we came up with 20 30
cards short of us, box of boosters, we
were done with that game because it's now
it became... I got gotta buy too many
things at constant re re re re rewriting.
And it's I think with the underworld. And
also cry came out. That because that... If
I wanted to play
small war hammer. I felt like War cry
was the better game than underworld. You didn't
have to constantly keep because track of buying
a a pack of cards for each new
edition. It was it was more like War
hammer than underworld was, so I I went
with it. I did it... That one's okay.
But I think I think Spear had
easily replaces war cry or underworld because it's
somewhere in between both of them and it
just hits every.
Every spot for me. I like it a
lot. And you also gotta think about the
fact too that now
with spear, you're playing similar war scrolls to,
like, the actual, like, you know, the actual
game for, like, 2K1K
games.
But while they're different... Like, they're still the
same mechanic. So, like, war cry being a
whole different, like, mechanic and like, work right,
I think still works because work right, work
right isn't unit level. It's
It's like individual
Individual individual mock. Individual model. That's more like
Nec mu like that kind of stuff.
Yeah. I missed. I missed Nec mu. That's
a great day. At it really was. It
was kinda game. They still 11. Yeah. And
I've played it at Jen kinda a couple
times. Of going in there and you get
to just play some guy. And roll some
that I I really did enjoy that. But,
okay. We're hitting about an hour and a
half. I think it's time to wrap it
up. I got people's got things to do.
And I wanna try to get this out.
So
Folks thank you so much for listening guys.
Thank you both for coming on and helping
out talking on the show and doing stuff.
And folks, this is just a bonus
episodes. We will still have the regular episode
out on the 20 fifth,
talking more factions and more stuff like that.
Just me and Chris Cranking stuff up. Now
that we got points, we can actually talk
to about and then now we know how
to build regiments we'll talk some lists and
stuff like that. So
alright, folks. Till next time, Only the Faithful
will be triumphant only the faithful will stand
when all others fall and only the faithful
no no to despair except in failure.
Cool
Oh, that barely hurt it, but I got
it. I got it.