WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:02.320 Fusion Patrol is a listener-supported podcast. 00:00:03.220 --> 00:00:08.300 Find out how you can help support us at patreon.com slash fusion patrol. 00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:20.460 This is the Fusion Patrol podcast. 00:00:21.340 --> 00:00:25.280 Each week, we look at a different science fiction TV episode or movie 00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:29.280 and overanalyze it to within an inch of its life. 00:00:31.260 --> 00:00:32.500 Welcome to the discussion. 00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:40.880 Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. I'm Eugene. 00:00:41.310 --> 00:00:42.000 And I'm Simon. 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:53.440 Tonight we're kicking off our 2020 Doctor Who coverage with the two-part story, Spyfall, by the Chibbers himself, Chris Chibnall. 00:00:54.760 --> 00:00:57.020 Episode synopsis, and there are two episodes. 00:00:57.580 --> 00:01:04.260 Part 1. Operatives are attacked all over the world by strange creatures pushing for the walls. 00:01:04.989 --> 00:01:09.800 The doctor and her fam, and if I never hear the word fam again it will be too soon, 00:01:10.520 --> 00:01:16.980 are collected by C, head of MI6. The agents have all had their DNA rewritten, 00:01:17.580 --> 00:01:23.440 and that can only be unearthly technology. The world calls on the doctor to save them. 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:41.760 The only clue, all the operatives were following up leads associated with Daniel Barton, CEO of Vore, the nightmare technology company that started as the world's most successful search engine and then branched out into servers, phones, home automation, and anything else you could think of. 00:01:41.910 --> 00:01:45.380 You know, like Google, only fictional, supposedly. 00:01:46.380 --> 00:02:00.320 The Doctor wants to enlist the aid of Horizon Watcher, the MI6 agent known only as O, that is apart from being known as the Horizon Watcher, who operated MI6's X-Files until C fired him. 00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:08.100 C is killed by a sniper shot, and the glowing aliens attack the Doctor and the gang, but they escape in the TARDIS. 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:19.820 The doctor drops Yaz and Ryan off in San Francisco, where they are to do some undercover digging into Barton, while she and Graham travel to the Australian outback to confer with O. 00:02:20.500 --> 00:02:30.420 Using spy gear, Yaz and Ryan first manage to finagle an interview with Barton in the guise of journalists, then forge his ID and break into his office to download the info on his computer. 00:02:31.100 --> 00:02:36.320 Interesting side note, a scan of Barton's DNA reveals he's only 93% human. 00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:44.200 In his office, they are almost caught, but they learn that Barton is working with or for the aliens. 00:02:44.940 --> 00:02:49.040 In the Outback, the Doctor and O confer, but the glowing aliens attack. 00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:54.860 They manage to escape, taking O with them and infiltrate Barton's enormously convenient birthday party. 00:02:55.520 --> 00:03:00.700 After the Doctor confronts him, Barton goes on the run, eventually flying off in his private jet. 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:05.200 The Doctor and the gang manage to get on the plane, but then the big reveal. 00:03:05.820 --> 00:03:10.080 O isn't O after all, nor is he the Horizon Watcher. 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:11.300 He's the master. 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.620 He's in league with Barton and the aliens, and there's a bomb on the plane. 00:03:16.050 --> 00:03:19.160 The master leaves with the aliens just as the bomb goes off, 00:03:19.370 --> 00:03:22.720 and the doctor is somehow transported to another place. 00:03:23.380 --> 00:03:24.340 End of episode one. 00:03:25.380 --> 00:03:25.920 Part two. 00:03:26.500 --> 00:03:31.620 On board the frontless plane, Ryan finds several plaques with his name and info on them, 00:03:31.760 --> 00:03:36.600 leading him to a recorded instructions and software from the doctor to gain control of the plane 00:03:36.940 --> 00:03:39.420 and let it fly automatically to its original destination. 00:03:40.260 --> 00:03:45.060 The doctor, alone in the strange place, meets Ada, a 19th century woman, 00:03:45.300 --> 00:03:48.660 who apparently visits frequently, but knows not why. 00:03:49.100 --> 00:03:52.140 She helps the doctor escape back to 1834 London, 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.900 where the master attempts to kill the doctor unsuccessfully. 00:03:56.440 --> 00:03:59.480 The doctor meets Ada's associate, Charles Babbage, 00:03:59.700 --> 00:04:07.720 And like a calculating machine, the doctor puts two and two together and realizes this is Ada Lovelace, pioneer of computer algorithms. 00:04:08.980 --> 00:04:17.160 There's a weird sculpture called the Silver Lady and Babbage's Study, which we, the audience, had seen in Barton's office in the 21st century, 00:04:17.640 --> 00:04:25.560 which the doctor deduces is a MacGuffin and sonics it, causing her and Ada to be transported to 1943 Paris, 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:32.980 where they meet Noor Khan, British agent, and are pursued by Nazis led by, you guessed it, the Master. 00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:37.460 Back in the future, Graham, Yaz, and Ryan are on the run. 00:04:37.960 --> 00:04:40.820 Barton has brought the full weight of his technology to bear on them, 00:04:41.030 --> 00:04:45.400 and they are tracked, wanted for hijacking, and on the run in a surveillance state. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.260 Graham takes them somewhere he thinks is off the grid, but he is wrong. 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:55.140 The aliens find them, but they're saved by Graham's soft shoe dance routine, 00:04:55.580 --> 00:04:58.460 and a pair of laser shoes borrowed from MI6. 00:04:59.060 --> 00:05:02.200 The doctor arranges to meet with the master on the Eiffel Tower, 00:05:02.420 --> 00:05:07.080 where he can't help but blab a bit about how he found out about the aliens, 00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:10.660 gave them a better plan, will destroy the human race, 00:05:10.840 --> 00:05:13.740 then dispose of the aliens when they're no longer used to him. 00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:16.580 He also drops a bit about Gallifrey being destroyed. 00:05:17.580 --> 00:05:18.860 Again, but he doesn't elaborate. 00:05:19.400 --> 00:05:22.760 The doctor has laid a trap, giving the Nazis false information 00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:24.620 that the master is a double agent for the British, 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:26.220 And the Nazis are coming. 00:05:26.760 --> 00:05:29.700 The Dr. Ada and Noor escape in the Master's TARDIS. 00:05:30.260 --> 00:05:33.100 Graham, Yaz, and Ryan think they've been clever, 00:05:33.840 --> 00:05:35.940 allowing themselves to be located by Barton's team, 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:39.060 then capturing their car and using the GPS to take them to Barton's base, 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:42.220 which is an empty warehouse with the dead body of his mother. 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:45.240 Barton killed her earlier because he has mommy issues. 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.200 Barton is giving a speech, and he reveals to the whole world 00:05:49.420 --> 00:05:52.760 how terribly stupid and naive they've all been, 00:05:53.120 --> 00:06:00.560 giving his company access to everything about their lives, their location, their family, their friends, thoughts, bank accounts, children, everything. 00:06:00.980 --> 00:06:06.600 And now that he has all that, he implements the plot, which has virtually nothing to do with any of that. 00:06:06.880 --> 00:06:12.920 He's just using their phones to rewrite their DNA and turn the entire human race into DNA-based hard drives 00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:17.420 to store the aliens' massive porn collection, or whatever it is that they need to store, 00:06:17.780 --> 00:06:22.180 on unreliable, organic, prone-to-mutate, age-and-wear-out hard drives. 00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:28.520 But that doesn't work because the Doctor fixed it all to not work off-screen between scenes. 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:31.580 She also reveals the Master's perfidy to the aliens, 00:06:31.980 --> 00:06:36.460 and they get upset taking him with them back into exile in their own universe. 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.440 The Doctor makes a brief stop at Gallifrey to discover that it has been destroyed, 00:06:41.080 --> 00:06:45.280 and gets a recorded message from the Master saying that he actually destroyed Gallifrey 00:06:45.550 --> 00:06:50.320 because they lied to him about all their nature, and it really upset him. 00:06:50.410 --> 00:06:51.200 The end. 00:06:52.520 --> 00:07:07.640 All right. I want to say that this episode, I just want to start this off by saying that this episode reminded me so, so very much of Patrick Troughton's classic episode story, The War Games. 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:22.500 And the reason it reminded me of the War Games is because if you sit and watch the War Games back to back, episode to episode, it's one hell of a slog to get through. 00:07:23.180 --> 00:07:27.280 And it took me something like eight hours to rewatch this. 00:07:28.860 --> 00:07:30.240 I had to just keep stopping. 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:34.600 I sort of enjoyed it on the first watch. 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:38.280 On the second watch, I had real problems. 00:07:38.820 --> 00:07:44.040 So this one went way down on me fast. 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:47.780 Anyway, how much did you love the episode? 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:49.000 Because I bet you loved it. 00:07:49.390 --> 00:07:50.480 You expect me to talk? 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:53.540 Yeah. 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:54.220 No. 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:56.720 I expect you to. 00:07:58.640 --> 00:07:59.720 I don't expect you to die. 00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:02.520 Well, I mean, I expect you to have your DNA rewritten. 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:03.240 All right. 00:08:03.530 --> 00:08:03.820 Go ahead. 00:08:04.919 --> 00:08:08.640 Well, I've got to admit, I wasn't really shaken or stirred by this one. 00:08:10.460 --> 00:08:12.280 saving that one okay 00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:20.940 i've i've i've now firmly got the idea in my head that chibnall should stick to writing one 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:27.220 part because the thing about this two-part episode is it's got more than two episodes in it 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:35.559 but it's just a big jumble um yeah so i i mean there could there could have been an interesting 00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:41.300 there could have been an interesting bond parody in there i i was definitely looking forward to an 00:08:41.500 --> 00:08:47.520 interesting bond parody there could have been a resurrection of the master story though i'll come 00:08:47.520 --> 00:08:56.440 back to some issues i have with that um okay you know the the dna the dna stuff there is some 00:08:56.660 --> 00:09:04.739 potential there i mean i we've been sharing examples of of uh storing information on dna 00:09:04.760 --> 00:09:07.240 and using DNA as computers. 00:09:08.540 --> 00:09:11.140 And certainly I saw this thing a couple of years ago 00:09:11.420 --> 00:09:14.400 about moving images being encoded onto DNA 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:16.700 and then being fed to bacteria. 00:09:17.460 --> 00:09:22.100 And so, yeah, there's something in that story too. 00:09:24.560 --> 00:09:26.700 I've been trying to avoid spoilers, 00:09:27.100 --> 00:09:29.140 but since part of this episode 00:09:29.620 --> 00:09:32.120 was literally shot feet from my office, 00:09:32.900 --> 00:09:41.120 it was not necessarily easy to escape the knowledge that some of this series was going to be set in 1943 Paris. 00:09:41.850 --> 00:09:43.100 And I was looking forward to the... 00:09:43.100 --> 00:09:44.300 Did you work in 1943 Paris? 00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:46.860 Exactly so. Exactly so, yes. 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.540 I have to commute there every day. 00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:51.680 Oh, okay. 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:55.040 Each year it gets a little further away. 00:09:55.660 --> 00:09:59.000 But that was something I was looking forward to. 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:02.860 and I had assumed we were going to get a whole episode set there. 00:10:02.910 --> 00:10:05.520 So I thought that would be really interesting. 00:10:06.030 --> 00:10:10.080 And, you know, again, Ada Lovelace, yeah, brilliant. 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:15.460 But I kind of felt, although there were things I did love in this story, 00:10:15.700 --> 00:10:21.880 I kind of felt that putting it all together did make for pretty hard going. 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.040 So, I mean, I'm not sure I agree with you about the War Games, 00:10:25.420 --> 00:10:30.080 but I certainly did find re-watching this a bit of a slog. 00:10:30.420 --> 00:10:32.040 Well, I do love the war games, 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:34.880 but if you try to watch all 10 parts... 00:10:35.060 --> 00:10:35.420 Sure. 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:36.680 In a sitting. 00:10:36.980 --> 00:10:38.480 I haven't tried to do that in a sitting. 00:10:39.779 --> 00:10:42.440 In fairness, if you try to watch all 10 parts in a sitting, 00:10:42.490 --> 00:10:44.380 you must be watching about four hours of television. 00:10:45.190 --> 00:10:45.320 Yeah. 00:10:45.540 --> 00:10:48.600 Whereas this only felt like it was more than four hours of television. 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:50.100 Yes, it did. 00:10:50.520 --> 00:10:51.200 Yes, it did. 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:54.500 Even watching it the first time through, 00:10:55.920 --> 00:11:00.700 it was like, wow, I have to go to the bathroom now. 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:02.960 And you put it on pause and you just look and you go, 00:11:03.380 --> 00:11:04.940 I still got 30 minutes to go. 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:10.200 I mean, are they both one hour long? 00:11:11.420 --> 00:11:13.040 Yeah, they're both full hours. 00:11:13.780 --> 00:11:17.200 So that doesn't just make it a long Doctor Who episode, 00:11:17.710 --> 00:11:20.780 which 60 minutes is, that's two long Doctor Who episodes. 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:21.420 Yeah. 00:11:22.460 --> 00:11:25.060 Yeah, it's, yes, it's a pretty, I don't know, 00:11:25.260 --> 00:11:29.980 It's sort of, it's journey's end, stolen planet long, I guess. 00:11:30.560 --> 00:11:36.760 It kind of reminds me of, it kind of reminds me of later Bond films because they're just too damn long. 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:39.240 Yeah. 00:11:39.700 --> 00:11:39.820 Yeah. 00:11:40.420 --> 00:11:41.780 Maybe that's the homage. 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:42.220 That's the homage. 00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:42.720 In some way, doesn't it? 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:43.260 Yeah. 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:44.280 That's the homage. 00:11:45.900 --> 00:11:48.880 We will make this really, no, actually there is one thing I will say. 00:11:49.400 --> 00:11:50.780 Get out, get it out of the way. 00:11:51.300 --> 00:11:55.960 I think I kind of like the new theme to the series. 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:06.140 I found the music to the previous season to be uninspiring, unnoticeable, unrecognizable. 00:12:06.900 --> 00:12:08.260 I have the soundtrack. 00:12:08.550 --> 00:12:09.880 I listen to the soundtrack. 00:12:10.520 --> 00:12:12.560 And it's like, yeah, this doesn't bother me. 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:20.800 I think you should be sitting in a room with some Himalayan salt crystals, perhaps, and chanting. 00:12:22.140 --> 00:12:31.700 but it never it never conveys it never conveys emotions to me or or events or action or it's 00:12:31.760 --> 00:12:39.960 it's very and i never heard it i think there were two instances in the origin in last year that i 00:12:40.160 --> 00:12:47.059 noticed there was music and i noticed it immediately in this episode because they were definitely going 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:57.060 for the david arnold era bond sound i know i have to i have to disagree with that um because i was 00:12:57.640 --> 00:13:06.340 i was really struck by the similarities to the sky for i could get this right skyfall score that um 00:13:06.800 --> 00:13:13.140 thomas newman isn't it uh wrote that yeah really there was there were there were themes when i 00:13:13.700 --> 00:13:19.800 when I when I compared them there were themes in the Skyfall score that I thought Akinola had 00:13:19.940 --> 00:13:24.600 actually I mean he hasn't they're not they're not direct copies but they're so reminiscent that it 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.700 if you weren't sure which one you were listening to I could have gone well I could that could have 00:13:28.700 --> 00:13:35.540 gone either way I'm not a fan of Newman's Bond scores to be fair Skyfall was well I'm a I'm a 00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:41.319 I'm a huge fan of Arnold scores and you know I was looking forward to hearing what Sagan Akinola was 00:13:41.420 --> 00:13:48.380 going to do with this and I have to say I enjoyed it but a tiny little bit of me was disappointed 00:13:49.180 --> 00:13:53.480 in the fact that we hadn't done a Bond spoof while Murray Gold was still scoring it 00:13:54.060 --> 00:13:59.880 because I would have loved to hear what Murray Gold did with Bond and you know in some ways 00:14:00.520 --> 00:14:06.159 I think there's a huge amount of similarity between Gold's work and Arnold's work I think 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:14.780 that they are mates and they you know they they probably have influenced each other but um it 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:20.720 would it would just have been interesting to hear what what gold did riffing on the kind of arnold 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:28.220 stuff i think it would have been more up his alley yeah yes i mean he naturally i think his his stuff 00:14:28.300 --> 00:14:38.540 is more bombastic and that's very much the the kind of the arnold bond style and and and it's 00:14:38.630 --> 00:14:48.100 i think it's very appropriate to to bond um i i also enjoyed gold's doctor who scores so you know 00:14:48.410 --> 00:14:53.620 don't get me wrong it's not the most part of criticism yeah well all right let's let's skip 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:59.980 that since then we've we've just finished pretty much all the bond stuff right no well no i i i 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:06.980 have um i have quite specific complaints about the bond stuff which is well where the hell was it 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:13.280 i mean if you're going to if you're going to do a bond okay so there was there was some bond stuff 00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:18.959 there was the doctor in a tux there was the doctor saying is that was that really a tux 00:15:19.420 --> 00:15:25.520 well so in the attempt at doing in that outfit she made patrick trout and look tall 00:15:28.020 --> 00:15:35.780 it was it was a definite homage she was the doctor the doctor we did get that uh high speed chase 00:15:36.280 --> 00:15:45.000 through the the uh grapevines most of that was already in the trailer so that was kind of like 00:15:45.560 --> 00:15:51.960 that was already priced in i don't know i was expecting at least there to be i mean if the 00:15:52.050 --> 00:15:57.760 doctor isn't clearly you've got a problem with you're dealing with a family audience and so a 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:04.340 lot of bond stuff is out of bounds maybe you can't have the doctor drinking vodka martinis or 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:09.720 whatever but they could at least have mixed her some sort of um mocktail that could have been 00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:16.700 ginger beer shaken not stirred anything but exactly and probably a mistake but yeah and 00:16:17.020 --> 00:16:20.380 and and you know i think there were i think there were lots of things you could have done with it 00:16:20.920 --> 00:16:27.340 um you know the the q branch stuff i was hoping for yeah we had some uh the the bling 00:16:28.420 --> 00:16:33.780 except sort of nothing happened with it nothing happened with it i mean not much okay there was 00:16:33.780 --> 00:16:38.259 a bit of laser shoe action in the second episode but the end of the first episode the id generator 00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:45.300 was the oh yeah yeah yeah all right um it was it was kind of pretty minimal because it got swamped 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:51.880 under a load of storyline about time travel and what have you which really doesn't fit in a in a 00:16:51.890 --> 00:16:56.540 bond story now i don't mind a story about time travel this is doctor who after all but if you're 00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:01.660 going to do the bond stuff this is why i'm like okay if you haven't got enough bond stuff to do 00:17:01.640 --> 00:17:09.420 over two episodes do one episode do a bond story that is a decent pastiche of a bond story and then 00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:14.880 move on to the other stuff here's my other complaint the spy stuff is it's not just that 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:19.860 it they didn't do the bond stuff it's irrelevant it's utterly irrelevant to this story the the 00:17:20.120 --> 00:17:26.379 fact that well it depends what you say the story is spies i i don't know what the aliens are spies 00:17:26.620 --> 00:17:33.380 huh and so it's all i think i really do i think that uh you know i don't know anything about mr 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:41.340 chibnall's habits but i could envision that perhaps on some drug or alcohol fueled circumstance 00:17:42.280 --> 00:17:48.080 he happened to look at the back of a leclerc novel and he saw the word spy master and he went 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:58.460 whoa what if the master were a spy and that's where this story came from because that's the 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:05.380 as far as i can tell that is the sole reason there's any spy craft in this except for the 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:14.100 ian chesterson moment of stenography um i don't just i literally don't get it i don't think that 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:20.740 was a problem i don't think i don't think that you you have to have the master in a story that's 00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:27.340 separate from a spy story because every bond story has to have the kind of no i don't have any problem 00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:31.400 with that i'm just saying that i'm just saying that why wasn't the master didn't have there was 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:38.420 no reason in this there was no reason to for it to be about spies because they didn't use that 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:43.279 they they they just set it up so that we could get a couple of car chase and a but they could 00:18:43.300 --> 00:18:44.460 And it really had nothing to do. 00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:47.480 They could have, but they did not, which is my point, is that it was not constructed. 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.740 The whole point about the master is he manipulates people. 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:57.020 So he could have been manipulating terrestrial intelligence agencies to achieve whatever end he wanted. 00:18:57.120 --> 00:19:01.100 I mean, it's classic Bond, you know, Moonraker Spy Who Loved Me stuff. 00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:06.760 He could have been trying to start World War III in order to wipe out the human race for reasons. 00:19:07.120 --> 00:19:08.660 I mean, that's what the master does. 00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:11.140 But that wasn't what he was doing. 00:19:11.380 --> 00:19:23.260 He wasn't actually the spymaster in any meaningful sense, because there wasn't any proper espionage story set up in this. 00:19:23.260 --> 00:19:32.960 It was just, you know, we kick off by paying a visit to Vauxhall Cross, which, by the way, looked utterly wrong. 00:19:33.120 --> 00:19:41.720 I mean, how did they think that that interior looked like the interior of – because they used external shots of Vauxhall Cross. 00:19:42.380 --> 00:19:44.740 Vauxhall Cross is the MI6 headquarters? 00:19:44.850 --> 00:19:45.500 Is that what we're saying? 00:19:45.860 --> 00:19:45.980 Yes. 00:19:46.220 --> 00:19:46.360 Okay. 00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:47.280 I didn't know it had a name. 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:49.400 And you see it from the outside. 00:19:50.120 --> 00:19:50.380 Right. 00:19:50.540 --> 00:19:52.240 It's a very modern building. 00:19:52.930 --> 00:20:00.940 And then it gets shot inside some – I suspect, though I haven't double-checked it, I suspect it's City Hall. 00:20:01.620 --> 00:20:14.240 You know, it's quite funny because when they went in to the hospital bed and, you know, C does the handprint thing. 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:24.380 I very much got a Moonraker James Bond going into the nerve gas lab in Italy vibe to that scene. 00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:32.580 Because you've got these ancient buildings and you've got the renovated interior on the inside of it. 00:20:33.060 --> 00:20:39.300 And as I watched that, I said, you know, that's a peculiar and uniquely British thing. 00:20:40.620 --> 00:20:50.320 Because when you watch a show made in the United States, typically the building interior and exterior match because our buildings are much newer by and large. 00:20:50.860 --> 00:21:02.200 But it's much more common to see something British where it's clearly old style infrastructure on the building and then it's been gutted and renovated. 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:07.900 And I'm not saying that doesn't happen here, but certainly it doesn't happen in Los Angeles much in Hollywood. 00:21:09.179 --> 00:21:12.140 And I actually thought that at that moment. 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:16.060 Never occurred to me that the MI6 building wasn't an ancient building. 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:24.460 And I know it isn't, but it just it looked absolutely quintessentially British as they went in that in that room. 00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:28.580 It fit perfectly in my mind, but you do make a perfectly good point. 00:21:29.120 --> 00:21:33.160 Well, I've never been inside it, but it didn't look like the interiors that we see. 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:34.400 Or if you had, you couldn't tell us. 00:21:34.540 --> 00:21:35.040 Bond films. 00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:41.420 Given that was what they were trying to spoof, that was a bit remiss. 00:21:42.700 --> 00:21:49.700 Yeah, so I'm not particularly happy with the spy story on this, such as it is. 00:21:51.159 --> 00:21:53.560 I'm disappointed by the lack of it. 00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:55.060 Okay, fair enough. 00:21:55.280 --> 00:21:56.740 I think that's the same. 00:21:56.740 --> 00:21:59.700 I'm disappointed in its execution because they didn't. 00:22:00.560 --> 00:22:00.700 Yes. 00:22:00.800 --> 00:22:01.820 They didn't execute it. 00:22:02.100 --> 00:22:04.780 I mean, that's where I'm getting at. 00:22:05.260 --> 00:22:09.120 Let's talk about the Vore and the Google parallels. 00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:14.820 And maybe we can think of Kablam a little bit from last year. 00:22:15.540 --> 00:22:18.400 Because I saw a lot of parallel here. 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.060 They're made out to be awful. 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:26.560 I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that's just not about Vore that remind us of this whole privacy thing. 00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:38.440 Like when Graham is doing his medical exam, which is basically an irrelevant scene, and they make him tick the boxes for his data protection privacy stuff. 00:22:38.780 --> 00:22:44.620 I mean, the dad and the home, well, the Echo-like device. 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:48.640 It is an Alexa, specifically. 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:49.600 Was it? 00:22:50.050 --> 00:22:50.600 Yeah, I guess it was. 00:22:50.600 --> 00:22:51.280 It wasn't a Vore Machine. 00:22:51.899 --> 00:22:52.960 He says Alexa. 00:22:53.600 --> 00:22:53.940 Good point. 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:54.460 He did. 00:22:54.740 --> 00:22:55.460 He did say that. 00:22:55.810 --> 00:23:00.980 I hope they were trying to mess up everybody's Alexa all over the world by doing that. 00:23:01.580 --> 00:23:04.660 Because they're all like playing Rubber Soul by the Beatles right now. 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:08.600 Or looking for a shoe shop somewhere. 00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:15.520 there may not be how awful this is how terrible how devastating it would be if a company used that 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:23.280 against you okay fine and we get a little of that when they're chasing gram and yaz and company 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:28.460 but that's not what the plot is about he gets he gets the whole speech and he tells you about how 00:23:28.700 --> 00:23:35.000 terrible we are and how awful and what you've let us do and ha ha we've got you now because we know 00:23:35.020 --> 00:23:41.980 everything about you. None of that's relevant to the actual plan, which is as long as you've got 00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:51.740 a phone, I'm going to format your hard drive. All it, yeah. Well, no, I mean, yeah. I noted you 00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:58.900 mentioned it in the synopsis. I was infuriated by it in the story because, again, it's an 00:23:58.800 --> 00:24:05.420 interesting story you could do a story that was actually about in the way in which you're handing 00:24:05.540 --> 00:24:10.380 over all of your personal information and allowing companies to invade your privacy without necessarily 00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:15.300 thinking through the consequences and you could demonstrate some of those consequences and yet 00:24:15.820 --> 00:24:20.380 there was no demonstration of the consequences because as you say this is something that could 00:24:20.380 --> 00:24:27.919 have been done without you clicking on all of those agree whatever because it it's not like 00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:35.180 clicking on agree somehow makes it legal for you to have your DNA written over. It may have 00:24:35.510 --> 00:24:39.040 terrible, terrible, but those are not the consequences. Those are not the consequences. 00:24:39.190 --> 00:24:45.080 It's complete non sequitur. And it's so unsubtle. It's so unsubtle. 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:55.299 Yeah. I just sat and had so many problems in things like that. All right. The concept of DNA 00:24:56.280 --> 00:25:02.440 as a hard drive, this is a thing that has been postulated. DNA contains information. 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.180 And it has, yeah, well, it's happened. It's been done. 00:25:06.820 --> 00:25:14.980 It's happened. And obviously not like that and not to that degree. But let's just take a couple 00:25:15.100 --> 00:25:22.639 of ideas here. One, according to what I could find, the theoretical number is that a single 00:25:22.700 --> 00:25:31.780 gram of DNA could contain 215 petabytes of data, which is 215 million gigabytes. Moore's law of 00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:39.020 computers, which is not really a law, but basically computing power and capacity increase double every 00:25:39.040 --> 00:25:49.119 two years. We'll pass that in not that long. So advanced aliens really are humans a logical 00:25:50.020 --> 00:25:53.800 extension. But Morslaw doesn't see how we'll parse it. It might be that we parse it by 00:25:54.360 --> 00:26:02.100 using DNA storage. Well, it's possible, but does it make sense? Because if you took, 00:26:02.410 --> 00:26:06.660 okay, let's see, do you take a human being and you rewrite their DNA and you turn them into a 00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:12.780 hard drive? You've got one big hard drive, which is still a biological entity, which will wear out, 00:26:13.340 --> 00:26:17.840 which will mutate, which will no longer be able to replicate. 00:26:19.340 --> 00:26:23.680 So you've created a planet full of failing hard drives immediately. 00:26:24.540 --> 00:26:25.500 And how do they eat? 00:26:25.530 --> 00:26:26.840 And how do they stay alive? 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:31.140 Because they're not put in a hospital like those secret agents were 00:26:31.210 --> 00:26:32.420 and kept alive with a drip. 00:26:32.840 --> 00:26:35.740 They're all going to fall over and starve to death in a couple of days. 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:36.920 All of them. 00:26:37.040 --> 00:26:37.240 Yes. 00:26:38.040 --> 00:26:38.300 Stupid. 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.880 Because there are a lot of interesting things about that. 00:26:42.320 --> 00:27:05.900 One of which is, oh God, right. I don't quite know where to start. Let's start with the secret agent. So the secret agent is being kept alive, but the doctor says something like, there is nothing to keep alive. But actually, there is because she may no longer be human because her DNA has been rewritten, but she's a living organism with DNA. 00:27:08.340 --> 00:27:22.520 So there is that. Now, obviously, it might be possible to read out of DNA after something has died. But since we don't quite know how these DNA stories, we don't know how they're going to be used. 00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:32.700 what that brings me to is what i think is a is a bigger problem i mean the eating is certainly an 00:27:32.770 --> 00:27:39.620 issue how do you how do you keep alive yes yes yes yes yes um and do how much of you how much 00:27:39.620 --> 00:27:46.480 of your dna needs to from what i understand and bear in mind i understand almost nothing of this 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:51.859 but from what i understand the dna experiment from a couple of years ago encoding this 00:27:52.360 --> 00:28:00.380 this um video would were done using the the way your immune system uh builds in the code of viruses 00:28:01.020 --> 00:28:05.520 in order to know to resist them in the future so you've got to have you've got to still have some 00:28:06.100 --> 00:28:12.900 functioning biological systems so here's the big one there is a statement in it which says 00:28:12.980 --> 00:28:19.020 that human DNA is vastly more efficient at storing this stuff. Why? 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:26.420 Yeah, no, it isn't. It isn't. I think when they are saying it's efficient, 00:28:27.010 --> 00:28:32.180 what they're trying to say, not trying to make excuses, but I think what they are trying to say 00:28:32.520 --> 00:28:40.960 is that DNA in such a small space contains so much potential data that is quote unquote efficiency. 00:28:42.020 --> 00:28:42.600 But it doesn't have to be human DNA. 00:28:42.600 --> 00:28:43.960 The fact is it isn't efficient. 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:44.960 No, right. 00:28:45.140 --> 00:28:45.600 It could be animals. 00:28:45.600 --> 00:28:46.340 It doesn't have to be human DNA. 00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:49.640 It doesn't have to be living DNA that you rewrite. 00:28:50.260 --> 00:28:50.640 It does. 00:28:50.800 --> 00:28:54.100 I mean, it really depends what you're storing on it. 00:28:54.120 --> 00:28:58.300 And the question is, at what point is it that you're transferring? 00:28:58.580 --> 00:29:03.840 Because you don't have to reformat, as Barton says. 00:29:03.840 --> 00:29:05.140 You don't have to reformat. 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.820 What you've got there is already capable of storing information. 00:29:11.780 --> 00:29:14.440 So why not just transfer the information? 00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:17.740 And there may be consequences to that. 00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:19.200 Stuff may get overwritten in that. 00:29:19.340 --> 00:29:23.460 There may be horrific things that we can explore in a dramatic way. 00:29:24.679 --> 00:29:32.980 But I kind of feel like I don't necessarily want a computer biology lesson dumped on me, 00:29:33.050 --> 00:29:35.740 but I just need something more than this nonsense. 00:29:36.520 --> 00:29:38.320 Okay, so I think a couple of things here. 00:29:38.420 --> 00:29:47.100 One, if we're talking about shows that look at the real possibilities of the privacy or DNA or something, you've got to turn to Black Mirror, not Doctor Who. 00:29:47.760 --> 00:29:54.540 Two, I think that there's a much better way that they could have implemented this. 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.220 And they did, but then they ignored it. 00:29:58.900 --> 00:30:01.400 And that was Barton's 7%. 00:30:02.120 --> 00:30:02.600 Right? 00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:04.120 Barton's 7%. 00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:07.700 This is steganography written onto the human being. 00:30:08.120 --> 00:30:15.820 yes yes yes and there's your spy craft and there is your tie to something that they use 00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:19.680 superfluously in the episode for no apparent reason other than just i wanted to tell you 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.760 about steganography because i just found out about it and then the third thing is oh god yeah 00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:30.780 writing onto dna as a way of as a way of smuggling information around it's a fascinating idea the 00:30:30.780 --> 00:30:37.820 third one is this is the return of the writer being beaten by the stupid science stick which 00:30:37.840 --> 00:30:47.480 know if we've seen since Kill the Moon, but this one. Yeah, no, I actually kind of thought that 00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:53.280 they might be going that way. Well, no, I didn't. I couldn't have thought they were going that way 00:30:53.740 --> 00:30:59.540 because there is absolutely no clue given to what they're using the DNA for until literally the 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:03.980 moment when he says, by the way, we're going to format you. Yes. Right. There's nothing given. 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:11.220 So you can't be looking at this episode going, oh, the steganography ties with the fact that they're rewriting the DNA. 00:31:11.350 --> 00:31:16.760 And if they'd said they were storing information in it, then suddenly you could have put the pieces together. 00:31:16.930 --> 00:31:18.100 But they did not do that. 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:20.460 On rewatch, you can put that together. 00:31:20.550 --> 00:31:26.600 Just like on rewatch, you can realize that when C is killed, his last word is O. 00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:37.640 And when the creatures are forming the lights on the wall of the building for Ryan, for no apparent reason, they form the letter O. 00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:43.480 But it serves no purpose in the story. 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:44.380 No. 00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:45.180 Well, I did. 00:31:45.320 --> 00:31:54.320 I wondered if C saying O was supposed to be somehow he'd realized it was O, but there is no obvious way in which he'd realized it was O. 00:31:54.340 --> 00:31:57.040 So it wasn't neat enough to allow that. 00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:17.960 No, it's just, it's just a, you know, it's just, just bad. It's just bad. But yeah, it is an interesting idea if an agent could, you know, rewrite a bit of the DNA in their finger or something and get through the checkpoints with the secret information. 00:32:19.460 --> 00:32:26.300 I don't think it's as efficient as sending it via the internet, hidden in a picture or something, but still, it's... 00:32:26.660 --> 00:32:35.840 No, but on the other hand, handing someone something in a lunchbox and photograph with their magic glasses isn't really the kind of epitome of. 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:38.240 Well, that was that was their homage to spying. 00:32:38.510 --> 00:32:45.000 Did they say did see say that that spies had been intercepted? 00:32:45.290 --> 00:32:46.060 He did, didn't he? 00:32:46.600 --> 00:32:46.760 Yes. 00:32:47.260 --> 00:32:56.700 I don't know if this is just a slap at the Americans again or the fact that the American operative was in fact a sniper killing someone. 00:32:57.260 --> 00:32:57.600 Oh, yeah. 00:32:57.660 --> 00:32:59.320 Not really spying. 00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:08.600 That looked more like military services, special forces trying to take out a bad guy and not somebody investigating Daniel Barton. 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:09.320 Yeah. 00:33:10.020 --> 00:33:16.140 Another thing about this story that I did not like, 00:33:16.580 --> 00:33:18.980 the doctor solves the problem off the screen, 00:33:19.420 --> 00:33:20.460 which I alluded to. 00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:21.180 Yeah. 00:33:22.560 --> 00:33:25.300 The aliens are time traveling. 00:33:25.760 --> 00:33:27.300 They exist in multiple times. 00:33:28.660 --> 00:33:35.820 So why are they keeping track of people developing computer technology on 00:33:36.320 --> 00:33:36.580 earth? 00:33:36.820 --> 00:33:37.220 I mean, 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:38.660 the two things against it. 00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:39.000 One, 00:33:39.220 --> 00:33:39.540 why? 00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:46.660 we never get a why to that and two if they travel through time do you really need to stake out ada 00:33:46.780 --> 00:33:53.780 lovelace when you could just hop into the future and see i think i'm right frankly so much more 00:33:53.980 --> 00:34:01.500 advanced than ada lovelace you know all all props to her but you know it's it's simplistic compared 00:34:01.620 --> 00:34:08.560 to what we have and know now okay easily accessible i might have a bit of an answer to that we we can 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:17.399 just before we do final question on the dna thing following on from the the spy who as we say is 00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:26.000 still alive but has dna rewritten why is barton's mom dead well she was completely rewritten so 00:34:26.899 --> 00:34:34.020 so she's dead um it's like um but she it's not just it's it's like it's not just when they when 00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:38.500 they scan the agent from the plane they say she's effectively dead or some words to that effect 00:34:38.720 --> 00:34:45.280 right but she's in she's in what looks like a coma but yaz takes one look at the mum and goes no 00:34:45.620 --> 00:34:50.679 you know she's she's carked it that's that's not because that's the the 00:34:52.500 --> 00:35:00.480 oh boy well because it because it was badly written that's your answer it's badly written 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:07.320 it's inconsistent across the board here's the thing here's the thing then about ada lovelace 00:35:08.380 --> 00:35:15.640 okay there's a small there's a small spoiler here i'm i'm i'm very averse to getting spoilers about 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:22.600 new doctor who before it comes up on the on the telly and there is there is one thing i have 00:35:23.020 --> 00:35:26.440 heard a rumor about which i'm now going to relate if you want to avoid spoilers 00:35:27.340 --> 00:35:35.020 close your ears now um we are supposed to be getting an episode in which the doctor meets 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:44.480 mary shelley and that's slightly worrying because they're related um what oh no what you mean 00:35:44.560 --> 00:35:54.820 because um ada lovelace yeah because ada lovelace is byron's daughter however that wasn't that 00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:01.560 wasn't what i was right is the worry is that um shelley has been a companion to the doctor 00:36:01.580 --> 00:36:10.440 in the past on audio and will the tv series too will hmm ada lovelace too has been a companion 00:36:11.520 --> 00:36:19.060 adventure with tom baker's doctor the enchantress of numbers yes so happens in the future from this 00:36:19.200 --> 00:36:24.640 this is the thing we're all worrying about what's going to happen with with uh mary shelley and then 00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:33.580 we get this popping up and it might appear to be a problem because as in it breaks continuity 00:36:34.010 --> 00:36:41.660 and people say oh yeah time war no problem but the doctor this is this is ada ada byron before 00:36:42.460 --> 00:36:50.920 she marries the earl of lovelace and becomes ada lovelace so she wouldn't know the doctor and 00:36:50.860 --> 00:36:53.240 Anyway, the Doctor is in a different body, so that's not a problem. 00:36:53.420 --> 00:36:56.300 The problem is the Doctor doesn't know Ada Lovelace. 00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:58.960 This may not actually be a problem either, 00:36:59.720 --> 00:37:02.860 because the Enchantress of Numbers involves a big reset, 00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:08.400 and it's not clear to me that the Doctor and Anne 00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:10.460 actually remember anything from the story. 00:37:11.620 --> 00:37:12.420 That's possible. 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.080 I haven't listened to the subsequent adventures 00:37:16.220 --> 00:37:19.800 to see if they refer back to having met Ada Lovelace, 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.160 So I don't quite know if that fixes the continuity. 00:37:22.820 --> 00:37:27.300 But, you know, that's like, okay, that's not so. 00:37:27.660 --> 00:37:31.280 So in a way, Chibnall seems to have respected the audio stories. 00:37:31.910 --> 00:37:38.660 But not only that, I am 97, maybe 98% certain 00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:42.480 that he is familiar with the Enchantress of Numbers 00:37:43.110 --> 00:37:44.820 because he included a line from it. 00:37:45.190 --> 00:37:48.260 In the Enchantress of Numbers, Ada says to the Doctor, 00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:50.440 I'm not a fool, don't take me for one. 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.160 And in Spyfall, Ada says to the Doctor, 00:37:53.700 --> 00:37:54.740 I'm not a fool, Doctor. 00:37:55.210 --> 00:37:57.520 And she says, and I'm not treating you as one. 00:37:58.360 --> 00:37:58.660 Yeah. 00:37:59.620 --> 00:38:00.060 Coincidence? 00:38:00.720 --> 00:38:01.420 Could be. 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:02.700 I think not. 00:38:03.140 --> 00:38:04.580 I think not, but it could be. 00:38:05.090 --> 00:38:05.640 Now the relevance... 00:38:05.640 --> 00:38:07.700 Maybe they've got a plagiarism charge against him. 00:38:08.140 --> 00:38:10.580 Maybe they can file plagiarism charges against Chibnall. 00:38:11.120 --> 00:38:15.860 Well, I'm not sure that either the idea of using Ada Lovelace 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:23.420 would be protected by copyright, nor a line like that. I certainly didn't see Paul Morris and 00:38:23.560 --> 00:38:30.640 Simon Barnard credited in the episode, but I think for one line. The thing that I think you might 00:38:31.040 --> 00:38:38.180 be more concerned with filing plagiarism charges is, so let's go back to where we started here. 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:45.840 What's the explanation for why the Kasavin are monitoring people involved in the history of 00:38:45.860 --> 00:38:53.400 throughout time. They never give that. Well, the plot to the Enchantress of Numbers is that there 00:38:53.600 --> 00:38:59.420 is a war in the 8th millennium. This, again, spoilers for if you haven't heard the Enchantress 00:38:59.520 --> 00:39:05.740 of Numbers, obviously, there is a war in the 8th millennium between computers and mankind, 00:39:06.620 --> 00:39:17.040 which mankind narrowly win but the computers uh try to go back in time to change history in order to 00:39:17.680 --> 00:39:26.180 implant a virus that is going to be present throughout the development of computers etc 00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:34.620 load of absolute poppycock but it but it it is connected to this idea of there being um 00:39:34.900 --> 00:39:41.320 future agents concerned with the early development of computing and i kind of think well if you if 00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:48.360 you're certain that gibner what is familiar with that story and he's thinking about a story involving 00:39:48.520 --> 00:39:54.500 ada lovelace and he's thinking about a plot that gives him an excuse for going back it's kind of 00:39:54.580 --> 00:39:59.700 there in that the problem is it doesn't link to the rest of the story that he's telling and all 00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:06.080 the all the other cassava and bomb nonsense i'm sure we haven't seen the end of the vor 00:40:06.590 --> 00:40:11.420 well i mean i wish we'd seen the end of the vor no he's still gone yeah he just he just 00:40:11.640 --> 00:40:19.260 i think the vor will be back i think i think that mysterious kelp forest that they all got 00:40:19.540 --> 00:40:29.100 stranded in i think that will be back for some reason i i thought that the choices of the actors 00:40:29.740 --> 00:40:35.080 or the directors, when everybody went to that place, it really freaked them out. 00:40:35.650 --> 00:40:36.900 And I don't see why. 00:40:37.490 --> 00:40:40.560 I mean, instantly, boom, I'm like really terrified. 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:45.680 Like, okay, if I were just plopped in that place, I would be terrified. 00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:50.860 If I'd been traveling in the TARDIS for a year and all sorts of terrifying and horrific 00:40:51.140 --> 00:40:54.780 places, I don't think I would have quite the reaction that Yaz had. 00:40:55.140 --> 00:40:56.320 I don't think I would have the reaction. 00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:01.520 Certainly the doctor seemed really, really more concerned. 00:41:01.710 --> 00:41:02.680 She wasn't interested. 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:04.980 Hey, this is an interesting new place, is it? 00:41:05.220 --> 00:41:07.540 She immediately went to, I'm talking to myself. 00:41:07.590 --> 00:41:08.560 I'm so afraid. 00:41:09.070 --> 00:41:09.960 Doesn't make any sense. 00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:21.860 Unless that's supposed to be something that the doctor knows or that's deep in your psyche or the home of the timeless child or I don't know or care. 00:41:23.780 --> 00:41:31.260 Even the master, when he ended up there, it was, I mean, yeah, he was mad, but also, I don't know. 00:41:31.600 --> 00:41:31.960 I don't know. 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:38.220 It just didn't, something's not right, but I know we're not going to, that's not the end of the Vore. 00:41:39.560 --> 00:41:40.100 Well, I don't know. 00:41:40.140 --> 00:41:42.480 I'd like to think because it's a different dimension. 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:48.900 The sense you're supposed to get is, well, the sense I felt that the intention behind it was, 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:56.260 was to say the people transferred into it somehow it somehow it was intended to give a sense of 00:41:56.310 --> 00:41:59.600 being in a different dimension if you were in a different dimension it would be very different 00:42:00.100 --> 00:42:05.980 and if you felt like that i mean the aliens aren't stable in ours why are we stable in theirs 00:42:06.830 --> 00:42:16.480 well exactly but i i feel i feel that um one one of the things about that is an overall weakness 00:42:18.859 --> 00:42:26.580 with is it is it with the whole episode i the whole story i don't know i felt like the direction 00:42:27.540 --> 00:42:34.900 so this is this is um this this isn't a two-parter in some ways because there is one director for 00:42:35.140 --> 00:42:40.020 episode one and a different director for episode two so they're written by the same person but 00:42:40.220 --> 00:42:45.880 and then continue i assume that's a logistical thing yeah i guess so i felt that the direction 00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:57.880 in part two was just awful awful and all all all the more apparent because some some some some of 00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:02.540 the things that you could compare between them like i thought lenny henry's performance in episode one 00:43:03.160 --> 00:43:08.840 was really good he was he was properly sinister he appeared to be just phoning it in an episode 00:43:08.980 --> 00:43:13.720 two in fact everyone in episode two appeared to be in a different story they didn't appear to be 00:43:14.140 --> 00:43:20.300 well that's not quite true there were some there were some scenes um where i thought the actors 00:43:20.560 --> 00:43:30.180 themselves did a a good job because you know they were they were sharing a scene so uh you know the 00:43:30.260 --> 00:43:37.100 doctor and the master on the eiffel tower whatever that was great um but just the the tone between 00:43:37.120 --> 00:43:43.540 scenes was all over the shop um the way this is it this is a classic i think the way that the scene 00:43:43.740 --> 00:43:52.540 where barton does his and one more thing product reveal that that's supposed to be like apple slick 00:43:53.180 --> 00:44:01.740 that event right right that's not it looks like the director just shot it on an empty sound stage 00:44:02.380 --> 00:44:09.720 and hid the fact by pointing a few lights at the camera the this the seating looks like something 00:44:09.740 --> 00:44:16.020 out of a lecture theatre there's hardly anyone there it's you know it's a tiny audience and and 00:44:16.160 --> 00:44:22.740 and the worst bit is this is the bit at the end i mean it there's some really poor editing as well 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:34.000 but when the master and Barton realise that the thing has gone wrong, and Barton just walks down 00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:41.120 towards the door and says, I need an extraction now, the timing of it feels wrong. It's not clear 00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:46.900 how he realises that it's got wrong, or what happens to him in that moment, or how he goes from 00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:51.460 I'm halfway through this to I'm, I need to get out of here. 00:44:51.820 --> 00:44:54.660 And there's no, there's, there's no emotion to it. 00:44:54.720 --> 00:44:55.820 There's no urgency to it. 00:44:55.900 --> 00:44:57.060 There's just, it's like, 00:44:57.300 --> 00:45:00.380 he doesn't really know what kind of performance he's being expected to give 00:45:00.540 --> 00:45:00.620 there. 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:02.500 It's not good. 00:45:03.120 --> 00:45:03.480 You did. 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.680 It did jog something in my mind with regards to the directing and it had to 00:45:08.680 --> 00:45:09.660 do with him on the plane. 00:45:10.580 --> 00:45:13.260 And it's not about the directing, but that made me think of it. 00:45:14.980 --> 00:45:16.820 I started to mention it earlier, right? 00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:19.700 The doctor solves the problem with the silver lady off screen. 00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:20.520 Yeah. 00:45:20.600 --> 00:45:23.440 She uses her TARDIS or she uses a TARDIS. 00:45:23.680 --> 00:45:25.940 She arrives before the story takes place. 00:45:26.640 --> 00:45:28.120 She puts a virus in it. 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:30.540 Therefore, nothing's going to happen. 00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:32.120 Problem solved. 00:45:32.600 --> 00:45:36.900 Now, if you've got a time machine, sure, maybe you can do that. 00:45:37.080 --> 00:45:38.660 Why don't they do that every story? 00:45:39.120 --> 00:45:40.680 Why don't they do that all the time? 00:45:41.140 --> 00:45:42.800 Why don't they never, ever have a problem? 00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.860 Why did Ryan, why did she fix them on the plane? 00:45:46.900 --> 00:45:55.140 I hated that, that she went back in time after the whole thing was solved and saved Ryan and the gang's life. 00:45:55.420 --> 00:46:03.880 And more than that, why, if she was going to do that, why would she put plaques all the way, like going, 00:46:04.460 --> 00:46:07.220 Ryan, basically, Ryan, go to the next aisle. 00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:08.940 Oh, okay, no, go to the next aisle. 00:46:09.060 --> 00:46:11.860 No, okay, now look in the seat pocket of 13C. 00:46:12.140 --> 00:46:15.600 Like, why not just put it in all the seat pockets? 00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:19.200 Or why not say the same thing on all the plaques? 00:46:19.410 --> 00:46:19.940 Or what? 00:46:20.680 --> 00:46:24.720 It's just there to be whimsically stupid. 00:46:25.770 --> 00:46:28.040 And I hate it. 00:46:28.460 --> 00:46:37.820 I really, like, they're concentrating more on what's happening and not on any kind of logic or internal sense. 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:43.800 They don't care. Literally, they don't care that the doctor solved this problem off screen 10 months ago. 00:46:44.180 --> 00:46:47.320 I don't care about that because it's not a problem I care about. 00:46:47.690 --> 00:46:50.400 I mean, the problems I think occur a lot earlier than that. 00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:55.920 You should. And that's a failure of the story to make you care about the problem. 00:46:56.620 --> 00:47:00.060 And that's part of it is that the writer doesn't care. So why should we? 00:47:00.700 --> 00:47:06.920 And if you go down that path, that if you can just solve any problem after the fact, then there is no time war. 00:47:07.040 --> 00:47:09.560 Oh, wait, that's because they tried to do that. 00:47:09.600 --> 00:47:11.619 But it's just... 00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:17.620 Wouldn't she go back and it put plaques on the freighter in Earthshock? 00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:19.180 Yes. 00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:20.160 See, there you go. 00:47:20.540 --> 00:47:22.360 We can solve all these problems now. 00:47:23.220 --> 00:47:23.620 Yeah. 00:47:24.520 --> 00:47:29.860 Throughout the rest of the entire series, it's all over because they can just go back and fix it before it ever happens. 00:47:31.560 --> 00:47:35.600 Before we talk about the Master, and I think we should talk about the Master, and obviously this one's going to run a little long. 00:47:36.160 --> 00:47:36.700 We probably should. 00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:40.500 I want to say, I have never heard of Noor Khan. 00:47:40.820 --> 00:47:41.020 Yeah. 00:47:41.600 --> 00:47:42.080 Have you? 00:47:42.500 --> 00:47:43.620 Is that something they teach about? 00:47:44.340 --> 00:47:44.460 No. 00:47:44.620 --> 00:47:44.760 Okay. 00:47:45.120 --> 00:47:48.600 I wasn't sure if that was like every school child in Britain knows who this woman is or 00:47:48.740 --> 00:47:52.460 whether this was a, hey, every school child in Britain ought to know about this woman. 00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:58.180 So did you do any research on her after you watched this episode? 00:47:58.620 --> 00:47:58.900 Yes. 00:47:59.420 --> 00:48:00.260 Not much, but yes. 00:48:02.040 --> 00:48:10.220 either the wikipedia article is a hatchet job which it might be or this is not the woman that 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:15.840 they should be throwing up there because what does it sound okay all right i put it together 00:48:15.950 --> 00:48:25.340 it goes like this one she was from a muslim india prior to prior to the uh split so i guess that 00:48:25.380 --> 00:48:33.300 would make probably ultimately Pakistan, but half American. She is a pacifist, follower of Gandhi. 00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:38.520 She and her brother, both pacifists, joined the war effort partially because they wanted to, 00:48:39.100 --> 00:48:43.660 noble reasons, don't get me wrong, partially because they wanted to show England, Britain, 00:48:44.160 --> 00:48:49.140 India cooperating, strengthen ties, do their part for the war, the whole thing. 00:48:50.020 --> 00:48:52.980 Knowing that she would get an extremely dangerous job because as a pacifist, 00:48:53.020 --> 00:48:53.940 They couldn't go out and kill people. 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.680 So they had to basically be in the line of getting killed, I guess. 00:48:57.980 --> 00:48:59.240 She went through the training. 00:48:59.940 --> 00:49:05.800 The women's courier program was working really well where they were sending couriers in and 00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:10.040 the Nazis weren't noticing the women because, you know, women, right? 00:49:10.560 --> 00:49:14.780 And so they went to the radio operator program and went training. 00:49:15.200 --> 00:49:21.380 Her file, which they found after she was dead, her trainer said basically, 00:49:22.160 --> 00:49:28.460 Um, she's not overburdened with brains, but has worked hard and shows keenness. 00:49:29.370 --> 00:49:33.780 And then his boss wrote in the margins of the paper, nonsense. 00:49:34.310 --> 00:49:37.040 We don't want them overburdened with brains. 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:46.160 So they put her in France in June of 1943. 00:49:46.820 --> 00:49:54.860 She was arrested in October of 1943 after having been betrayed by a double agent in the French resistance. 00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:58.660 So she was only there for a short period of time. 00:49:59.720 --> 00:50:01.700 She did not talk under interrogation. 00:50:02.220 --> 00:50:02.420 Yes. 00:50:02.520 --> 00:50:03.100 Yeah, absolutely. 00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:04.900 Did not talk under interrogation. 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:14.400 However, she apparently kept logs and transcripts of every message that she sent against orders because apparently she was not overburdened with brains. 00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:16.440 So the Nazis got that. 00:50:16.680 --> 00:50:22.860 were able to fake her and for apparently quite some time were sending fake messages as her 00:50:23.240 --> 00:50:31.780 and got quite a few people killed because of that stupid, stupid mistake on her part. 00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:36.220 She tried to escape and got captured. 00:50:36.220 --> 00:50:38.100 That was in November of 43. 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:42.880 They then put her in prison for 10 months, shackled hand and foot, 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:45.220 and then they beat her and killed her. 00:50:45.820 --> 00:50:48.420 So it was not a good end. 00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:51.060 It's kind of an iffy war record. 00:50:51.140 --> 00:50:52.180 I mean, yes, a pioneer. 00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:53.480 Well, hang on. 00:50:54.620 --> 00:50:56.480 But yes, a brave person. 00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:59.720 Yes, doing a dangerous job and died because of it and all that stuff. 00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:11.240 But I mean, they couldn't find somebody whose war record didn't end with her getting a bunch of people killed because she didn't follow procedure. 00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:13.880 Like I say, I read the Wikipedia. 00:51:13.940 --> 00:51:15.340 I'm like, wow, that's a hatchet job. 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:21.220 somebody must have hated her maybe you know it may not be true a lot of wikipedia i don't i can't 00:51:21.240 --> 00:51:31.200 prove it's not true but just it just didn't come off as good as it could i'm i see i i still i mean 00:51:31.300 --> 00:51:36.900 with that with that backstory i still don't i still think she's really interesting character 00:51:37.540 --> 00:51:41.279 and the things that are interesting about her they don't really have to do with how 00:51:41.620 --> 00:51:49.540 intelligent her superiors thought she was or whether she did or didn't follow procedure even 00:51:49.690 --> 00:51:53.320 if you know even if she made procedural mistakes that led to other people being killed 00:51:54.080 --> 00:52:00.660 i mean you could you could explore those things the thing that bugged me about so i didn't do a 00:52:00.670 --> 00:52:08.679 whole lot of research into her but i did look up what happened next and that's kind of because 00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:15.680 there is that moment when the doctor returns her and she asks do the fascists ever win 00:52:16.460 --> 00:52:21.460 and the doctor says not while there's people like you now i don't know what you think the idea of 00:52:21.460 --> 00:52:25.300 the fascists winning might be but if you know you're going to end up in a concentration camp 00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:33.739 and then get executed by them you might feel that that's definitely round one to them yeah so not 00:52:33.880 --> 00:52:39.600 ever win i don't know i mean i'm not saying change the line what i think what i think is missing is 00:52:40.120 --> 00:52:45.460 you need to know why the doctor is saying that i think if you if you put that that character with 00:52:45.540 --> 00:52:50.820 that story up there you need to know what happened to her and i didn't know what happened to her based 00:52:50.850 --> 00:52:55.660 on what i saw on screen we didn't know much without knowing without knowing what happened to her and 00:52:55.740 --> 00:53:01.059 the doctor undoubtedly does know when she says you know not while there are people like you 00:53:01.520 --> 00:53:09.280 and so i feel which won't be for long i needed to see that i you know in watching through it 00:53:09.660 --> 00:53:15.640 i feel like you as a member of the audience could be forgiven if you thought she had something to 00:53:15.640 --> 00:53:23.740 do with computers or that it was tied into the fact that she's just doing with lovelace um you 00:53:23.740 --> 00:53:31.040 know why why did they drop into this point and land right next to her because the kasavin were 00:53:31.060 --> 00:53:38.340 monitoring her as a spy were they i don't know i i didn't actually get that and and you know 00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:44.740 the silver lady wasn't there and uh i that was that that was my interpretation though i don't 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:49.840 know why see that's why i say you'd be loving the doctor's hand would result in her ending up 00:53:50.380 --> 00:53:56.060 i i don't you could be forgiven for that also and i think there's a difference between the way the 00:53:56.060 --> 00:54:01.420 british use the word brilliant and the way americans use the word brilliant when you hear 00:54:01.620 --> 00:54:09.960 somebody say somebody's brilliant here it 99.9 percent time means intelligent no and it i know 00:54:10.020 --> 00:54:16.280 it's not true because you know brilliant could also mean shining bright so when the doctor is 00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:20.660 what it means for us what what does it tell you i don't i don't think it necessarily means 00:54:20.860 --> 00:54:25.280 intelligent it can do that's what i mean that's what i mean so when the doctor says she's brilliant 00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:32.840 like you my mind immediately went she's brilliant like ada lovelace a brilliantly intelligent human 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:39.120 being but yeah and so therefore she would be of interest to the vor but it isn't what she meant 00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:46.200 and then as that falls apart you're like why did they go there i don't like i don't get that i mean 00:54:46.240 --> 00:54:48.700 is it just literally random plunk? 00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:50.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:54:50.740 --> 00:54:50.840 Right. 00:54:52.020 --> 00:54:53.860 See, I don't know. 00:54:54.220 --> 00:54:54.780 I don't know. 00:54:55.340 --> 00:54:56.880 It's a story that I would have happily 00:54:57.700 --> 00:54:59.640 had a proper episode around. 00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:00.260 Yes. 00:55:00.860 --> 00:55:02.060 You know, Noor and I can't 00:55:02.180 --> 00:55:03.360 is an interesting character. 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:04.900 The period is interesting. 00:55:05.560 --> 00:55:06.820 Give us a whole episode there 00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:07.980 and do it properly. 00:55:08.600 --> 00:55:08.760 Yeah. 00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:10.160 Plus, I've got to say, 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:12.760 one of the things I loved in this story 00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:21.660 was both both actors were really good i liked the way the characters were portrayed i liked them 00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:29.620 traveling with the doctor when when she said uh when um ada says does this have to have to be the 00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:36.660 end i kind of think i wish it didn't i wish actually we did have the doctor traveling with 00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:43.820 ada and nor and given that there doesn't seem to be much fam development occurring at the moment 00:55:44.610 --> 00:55:50.040 i mean i mean apart from the budding romance between yaz and ryan but okay well maybe i 00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:54.480 wasn't quite sure whether that was just wasn't sure whether that was the direction 00:55:55.520 --> 00:56:03.220 oh my mother my sister wants your phone number is the classic flag signal cliche that they're 00:56:03.260 --> 00:56:10.440 getting together later in this yeah no well yes yes i suppose that is in the right there was there 00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:17.160 was that and there was the when they're sitting on the veranda and he says i'd never let that 00:56:17.290 --> 00:56:24.580 happen to you yeah in reference to her dying quite how you stop someone from ever dying but still do 00:56:24.580 --> 00:56:30.680 you think she's not even really yes anymore i mean there's no being in the other transfer yeah 00:56:30.940 --> 00:56:36.660 yeah she substituted for somebody else a spy i did i did i did wonder why they didn't 00:56:37.160 --> 00:56:42.480 check her out that whole sequence makes no sense i thought she's there and then she's back okay 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:46.540 i thought she was because we saw how she transferred but i what i didn't understand 00:56:46.590 --> 00:56:52.600 was why the doctor and o didn't immediately think there was a kasavin there there is now 00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:58.220 yas there isn't it kasavin that's taking the shape of yas yeah because that's kind of what i would 00:56:58.160 --> 00:57:04.220 think me too or something yep yep absolutely she didn't even bother to check her dna 00:57:06.100 --> 00:57:10.480 which would be a logical thing to do considering that they had that perhaps not definitive in this 00:57:10.620 --> 00:57:18.440 particular case right so yeah okay let's go we're running long well it's a two-part episode it's a 00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:27.299 long episode it's going to be a long podcast the master has returned thoughts many many many thoughts 00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:35.500 um i'm gonna i don't know quite where to start with this i i guess i guess my initial thing is 00:57:36.120 --> 00:57:45.580 that i haven't i haven't much enjoyed the last three episodes compared to the rest of well the 00:57:45.660 --> 00:57:52.100 whole of the previous series the the 2018 series which i thought was really really good one of the 00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:57.800 things I liked about it was that it basically took a clean slate it didn't it didn't try and 00:57:58.340 --> 00:58:04.260 erase the continuity of what had gone before but it didn't go there it just it just did its own 00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:12.040 new thing quite happily and it started establishing a different kind of show which you know Doctor 00:58:12.140 --> 00:58:17.560 Who's always done it's a show that regenerates and that's why it has the longevity it has 00:58:18.959 --> 00:58:27.540 when um we had resolution we obviously had the first of the recurring villains well 00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:35.860 won't go back over that um we had this stuff about uh unit being disbanded that seemed to 00:58:35.860 --> 00:58:42.080 me completely unnecessary yeah now we've got more continuity in the shape of the master 00:58:42.140 --> 00:58:48.060 and another thing that will no doubt come on to and so the thing that occurs to me about this is 00:58:48.700 --> 00:58:57.040 when rtd brought back the master he earned it i'm not saying i'm not saying the rtd interpretation 00:58:57.170 --> 00:59:03.960 of the master was great because it wasn't it was not he he'd he'd gone for well over 30 episodes 00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:11.480 before he brought the master back and then he sowed the seeds of that resurrection through 00:59:11.620 --> 00:59:16.960 the human nature and family of blood storyline and then utopia with derek jacobi and so forth 00:59:17.500 --> 00:59:25.220 so there was a real sense of of build-up to it moffat he waits for 30 or so episodes before he 00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:31.860 brings the master back and then he brings the master back with a series of teasers you know 00:59:32.020 --> 00:59:37.960 dropped throughout the season and then the you know the master is is resurrected and okay we get 00:59:37.900 --> 00:59:43.800 the master back a few times but that felt kind of like it'd been earned and in particular the 00:59:43.940 --> 00:59:53.160 doctor falls felt to me like a really satisfying conclusion both to the kind of recent master arc 00:59:53.160 --> 01:00:04.120 or the that the master arc from season uh 36 or whatever it is and to the the the longer master 01:00:04.140 --> 01:00:09.520 story so what i'm basically trying to say is it's too soon we're bringing we're bringing back the 01:00:09.620 --> 01:00:15.760 master without without it without it really following on from from that which really just 01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:22.660 happened only just the other day and i'm not ready for it i'm not ready for it i i don't 01:00:23.300 --> 01:00:28.280 my thoughts are not nearly as deep on this subject uh as as yours uh clearly are 01:00:30.200 --> 01:00:37.380 Because I don't exactly treat it as if Doctor Who is a new show with a new Doctor. 01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:40.400 So the Master is back. 01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:42.520 No, I was just saying it's not a new show. 01:00:42.630 --> 01:00:43.020 The Master came back. 01:00:43.840 --> 01:00:49.960 The Master is back and has come back since the destruction of all the Time Lords. 01:00:50.820 --> 01:00:54.020 That was the one that had to be earned, in my opinion. 01:00:54.460 --> 01:00:54.600 Yeah. 01:00:54.730 --> 01:00:55.860 Well, yeah, I was coming on to it. 01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:56.260 And it was. 01:00:56.320 --> 01:01:05.600 Much more so because when Moffat, when RTD destroyed the Time Lords, that was after a wilderness period of nine years. 01:01:06.380 --> 01:01:09.620 And so he was doing it for a reason. 01:01:10.460 --> 01:01:19.640 And in connection with, you know, setting up a backstory and reestablishing a sense of what the show is about, 01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:22.600 which is the Doctor being the last of the Time Lords, 01:01:22.780 --> 01:01:28.460 being this kind of lonely alien who is the only one of his race and that permeated all of the 01:01:28.620 --> 01:01:36.040 storylines so it wasn't just a random plot twist it was it was cleverly thought out for a reason 01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:43.600 when Moffat undid that when he brought back the Time Lords he did so very carefully he did it in 01:01:43.720 --> 01:01:50.260 consultation with Russell T Davies and he did it in a way that felt like it both honoured the Time 01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:58.280 war story in the time war mythos that rtd had built up and and yet um it was kind of epic in 01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:04.580 its own right the problem is now it's there is no point to any of that what was the point of 01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:12.440 carefully bringing back gallifrey i i feel like chibbers was was i don't know i mean i don't know 01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:17.140 what their dynamic is between him and moffat and rtd but i i'm sure he must have had a working 01:02:17.160 --> 01:02:22.340 relationship with RTD because he worked for him on Torchwood and worked with him Torchwood. So I'm 01:02:22.420 --> 01:02:29.580 sure that I just, it, it honestly feels like a writer throwing a tantrum. I am still mad that 01:02:29.780 --> 01:02:34.920 Moffat brought Gallifrey back. It was such a great idea to get rid of them. I don't want to have 01:02:35.100 --> 01:02:40.280 Time Lord stories. This is a waste of my time. What are we going to do now that they're back again? 01:02:40.980 --> 01:02:45.140 I know I'll just blow them up for no reason whatsoever. They're just boom, they're gone. 01:02:46.040 --> 01:02:49.260 And now it's not the doctor that killed the Time Lords. 01:02:49.390 --> 01:02:50.460 So there's no guilt there. 01:02:50.620 --> 01:02:52.460 It's the master that killed the Time Lords. 01:02:52.790 --> 01:02:55.280 So we've erased the doctor's guilt about wiping them out, 01:02:55.740 --> 01:02:58.480 transferred it to his enemy, and still got the same situation. 01:02:58.540 --> 01:02:59.980 No, it's terrible. 01:03:00.340 --> 01:03:01.200 It's a terrible idea. 01:03:01.620 --> 01:03:09.440 But it does, funnily enough, it does feel to me like it is almost a kind of, 01:03:09.540 --> 01:03:16.720 not throwing a tantrum, but a statement of how much he disliked what Moffat did with it. 01:03:16.990 --> 01:03:21.100 And I don't know whether that's true. I don't know that he did dislike it, but it feels the 01:03:21.240 --> 01:03:25.520 same with the way he's brought the master back, which is he doesn't acknowledge the storyline 01:03:26.140 --> 01:03:33.220 of Missy in the vault and any of the character development that leads to her actions in 01:03:33.720 --> 01:03:40.380 the doctor falls he he he basically kind of resets it and he resets it when the memory of that is 01:03:40.500 --> 01:03:45.300 still is still fresh in our minds and that's that's what i'm that's what i'm objecting to 01:03:45.780 --> 01:03:50.100 and i don't see the need particularly with the gallifrey stuff if he's like we don't want to 01:03:50.100 --> 01:03:55.860 have stories about time lords with their big roughs and their silly politics that's fine i 01:03:56.060 --> 01:04:01.840 don't want to have stories about time lords with their big roughs and silly politics either but 01:04:01.860 --> 01:04:07.400 you can do that by not telling stories about Time Lords. The problem with destroying Gallifrey is 01:04:07.780 --> 01:04:12.880 you've now got a whole other story about Gallifrey that we're going to tell. And I don't, 01:04:13.170 --> 01:04:16.960 I honestly don't care about it. I didn't care about it. And he's going to undo it too. 01:04:17.940 --> 01:04:23.100 Moffat was smart enough to use it very, very minimally. And now I suspect we're going to have 01:04:23.100 --> 01:04:29.240 an entire season story arc about blinking Gallifrey. This bothers me because he is going 01:04:29.560 --> 01:04:36.140 to undo everything we know about Gallifrey anyway with his timeless child lie nonsense 01:04:37.060 --> 01:04:42.700 and that feels very Cartmel master plan to me yes it does and I did not like the Cartmel master plan 01:04:42.700 --> 01:04:52.400 and I am glad that died on the vine I know I'm glad it died on the vine but I you know just if 01:04:52.400 --> 01:04:56.700 you don't want to do right if you don't want to do Gallifrey don't do Gallifrey you don't need to 01:04:56.600 --> 01:05:00.680 duke gallifrey they're hiding they're going to leave the doctor alone you can spend your time 01:05:00.680 --> 01:05:07.160 in the universe we do not need that uh story we didn't need the naster now you mentioned the whole 01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:13.440 undoing the bit with missy and the the development that they have i i was absolutely 01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:23.880 angered let's use angered for the polite word at the end of part one because one we had a character 01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:31.820 who was a decent character, seemed reasonable, was carrying on, you know, normal human conversations 01:05:32.300 --> 01:05:39.120 and whatnot. And then once he's revealed to be the master, suddenly he was John Sim from 01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:44.660 whenever John Sim appeared at the Sound of Drums or whichever one it was. He was the crazy spinning, 01:05:44.940 --> 01:05:52.000 if he'd started dancing and around the thing, I would have, it was like, he's doing John Sim. 01:05:52.180 --> 01:05:57.200 And I hated John Sims, Master in the RTD era. 01:05:58.500 --> 01:06:01.940 And please, no, don't do that. 01:06:02.120 --> 01:06:05.540 Because we know that this guy is capable of not being nutso. 01:06:05.900 --> 01:06:07.960 Because he's been the whole time. 01:06:08.180 --> 01:06:11.120 He's been functioning normally then. 01:06:12.020 --> 01:06:14.800 So I was not happy at all. 01:06:15.700 --> 01:06:18.920 And then when they came along in the second episode, I was fine with him. 01:06:19.500 --> 01:06:20.320 I was fine with him. 01:06:20.500 --> 01:06:22.340 I like him as the master. 01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:25.080 He wasn't nuts. 01:06:25.200 --> 01:06:27.440 It's still a little annoyed about the whole 01:06:27.990 --> 01:06:29.520 da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da. 01:06:29.910 --> 01:06:31.340 I wish they'd forgotten that, 01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:34.080 but sound of drums. 01:06:34.520 --> 01:06:36.020 Because it wasn't... 01:06:36.020 --> 01:06:36.480 Yeah, anyway. 01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:38.520 We won't go into sound of drums. 01:06:38.980 --> 01:06:40.460 It didn't happen because... 01:06:40.530 --> 01:06:41.700 I must say I agree with you 01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:48.080 because if you were unable to avoid spoilers 01:06:48.100 --> 01:06:51.280 about knowing that the master was going to be in this episode. 01:06:52.060 --> 01:06:52.920 I didn't know. 01:06:54.250 --> 01:06:56.280 I was completely and absolutely blindsided. 01:06:57.020 --> 01:07:00.900 Somebody may have let the cat out of the bag 01:07:01.120 --> 01:07:02.700 before I had a chance to watch this one. 01:07:03.380 --> 01:07:07.780 So if you're watching the episode knowing that the master is in it, 01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:11.280 it's fairly obvious when there is this character 01:07:11.370 --> 01:07:13.680 who doesn't actually have anything to do with anything 01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:16.360 suddenly interacting with everyone 01:07:16.380 --> 01:07:20.360 that that's what's going to happen so I was watching his performance thinking 01:07:21.420 --> 01:07:31.060 yes you know I quite like this much more low-key this sort of someone someone who is prepared to 01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:38.900 be a backroom manipulator working all those years as an analyst in MI6 and the performances 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:46.980 there's definitely a kind of sinister thing going on when he's oh but it's not crazy um you know 01:07:47.240 --> 01:07:53.260 sticking knitting needles up his nose type performance yeah and then exactly like you say 01:07:53.780 --> 01:08:01.120 you get to that moment on the plane and i don't know but i there are there are moments in it that 01:08:01.160 --> 01:08:05.520 are really good but it is again i think i can't help thinking it comes down to the direction 01:08:05.540 --> 01:08:08.520 because it's like when he's at his best, 01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:13.240 it's got to be when he's much closer to just, 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:15.540 I mean, obviously he's acting all the way through it, 01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:18.180 but he's behaving naturally in some way. 01:08:18.259 --> 01:08:20.540 It feels like Sasha DeWall doesn't, 01:08:21.620 --> 01:08:25.420 his strength is not doing the John Simm crazy thing. 01:08:25.480 --> 01:08:27.420 And I didn't particularly like the John Simm crazy thing. 01:08:27.420 --> 01:08:28.859 That wasn't John Simm's strength either. 01:08:29.980 --> 01:08:32.060 But it is like, that's not, 01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:33.800 it's certainly not the kind of thing 01:08:33.819 --> 01:08:40.460 i've seen him do before in space adventure in space and time or um line of duty or whatever 01:08:40.569 --> 01:08:46.700 else i've seen him in um but it but it also just it doesn't it doesn't have a whereas his his 01:08:47.330 --> 01:08:53.359 general performance is actually quite naturalistic and i agree with you by and large in the second 01:08:53.640 --> 01:09:00.980 episode it's good that he gets to go to back go go you know back a bit he's still a bit shouty 01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:10.359 i think a bit in in some of it and he doesn't he doesn't need to be um but certainly in the in the 01:09:10.520 --> 01:09:16.319 scenes on the eiffel tower he is absolutely superb i think it would have been better uh much better 01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:23.120 for for me who did not know and i apologize um and i didn't give it away i didn't give it away 01:09:23.210 --> 01:09:28.380 i just sent you an email a text suggesting that we do an episode about the masters over the year 01:09:28.339 --> 01:09:35.120 for the sidecars and patreon subscribers that just i could have been that it never occurred 01:09:35.370 --> 01:09:41.740 to me to do the master because it was so far out of my mind that that would happen but anyway i 01:09:44.080 --> 01:09:49.339 if he'd had the proper master beard even if it was still just sort of a stubbly beard i think 01:09:49.370 --> 01:09:54.840 that would have when he popped i would i still wouldn't have cottoned on to it until that moment 01:09:54.860 --> 01:09:59.440 Until he popped up and like, oh, the beard's been right there in front of my face the whole time. 01:10:02.740 --> 01:10:09.060 You know, but and I did notice that his beard changed in illogical ways throughout the course of the episode. 01:10:09.740 --> 01:10:13.280 Oh, it kept it got it kept getting thicker. 01:10:14.220 --> 01:10:20.760 I mean, yes, at the end, it was thickest when he showed up again after having waited through half the 20th century. 01:10:22.300 --> 01:10:26.400 But when he was in Nazi Germany, it was thicker than it was in 1834. 01:10:27.460 --> 01:10:31.800 And when he was, oh, it was like, is that a continuity mistake? 01:10:32.240 --> 01:10:33.480 Or are they trying to? 01:10:34.420 --> 01:10:38.380 I'm sure it was a continuity mistake, given how slapdash the rest of this was. 01:10:38.540 --> 01:10:39.680 But I agree. 01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:44.220 With a show like this, when they do this timey-wimey stuff, 01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:48.280 they kind of put you on notice that this kind of thing can happen. 01:10:48.380 --> 01:10:51.860 So they damn well ought to make sure that they get everything right. 01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:58.400 I, you know, I like Michelle Gomez's performance much better than John Sims. 01:10:58.540 --> 01:10:59.400 And I like John Sim. 01:10:59.940 --> 01:11:05.380 And when they brought John Sim back in the Doctor Falls, he was so much better. 01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:06.420 He was superb. 01:11:06.560 --> 01:11:08.040 He was the master. 01:11:08.460 --> 01:11:09.740 He got to be the master. 01:11:10.740 --> 01:11:15.640 And I'm looking forward to him in Big Finish and in the Masterful box set in like a year. 01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:27.820 But I, you know, I like Michelle Gomez's performance better because she did a better crazy performance than John Sim did. 01:11:27.900 --> 01:11:28.880 Yes, yes. 01:11:29.180 --> 01:11:31.320 But I don't like crazy performance master. 01:11:31.580 --> 01:11:35.820 I thought that Michelle Gomez played something that was well within her. 01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:39.180 She is, when you see her interviewed, she is crazy. 01:11:39.500 --> 01:11:40.360 I mean, she just is. 01:11:40.940 --> 01:11:46.180 So her playing crazy is just like, she just lets it, she lets it out. 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:50.640 Whereas with him, you felt like he was trying to find it somewhere and he wasn't always succeeding. 01:11:51.160 --> 01:11:57.800 Yeah. And so, you know, trying to divorce the performance, I just don't like the crazy master. 01:11:58.400 --> 01:12:04.220 Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like the master to be. I like the Roger Delgado master. And so I want to see 01:12:04.300 --> 01:12:09.140 the master be an actual formidable villain that you don't think is a comic buffoon. I don't like 01:12:09.160 --> 01:12:15.400 the joker and batman and i don't uh and i don't think the master is the joker and and shouldn't 01:12:15.540 --> 01:12:24.720 be and so i kind of like the whacking phoenix joker but that's another conversation yeah so it 01:12:25.060 --> 01:12:31.160 just but like i said i would be more than happy to see him back and i do appreciate the fact that 01:12:31.160 --> 01:12:37.960 they did at least throw out a line because the second i saw him walk in in a nazi uniform as a 01:12:37.980 --> 01:12:43.220 colonel or general or whatever he was i i'm not good with ranks and i saw him walk in i'm like 01:12:43.900 --> 01:12:51.920 seriously people an indian dressed up as a nazi and the guys around him don't notice 01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:59.340 that he does not look like mr blonde hair blue eyes come on so at least they did address they 01:12:59.410 --> 01:13:06.600 did that but i don't i don't quite know what i feel about i mean i i was annoyed at the doctors 01:13:06.620 --> 01:13:12.860 saying she was a pacifist because she's kind of not pacifist right and anyway i'm not sure that 01:13:13.350 --> 01:13:19.060 being a pacifist when you're when what you're fighting against is the nazis nazis is necessarily 01:13:19.150 --> 01:13:24.000 the most honorable position anyway but that you know i don't i don't don't annoy all the pacifists 01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:31.600 out there i i i kind of get it i i don't want to disrespect it but the doctor then the doctor then 01:13:31.620 --> 01:13:39.040 in a scene that almost directly follows on from that hands the master over as you say a man of 01:13:39.340 --> 01:13:45.900 indian appearance even if he's gallifreyan indian to a bunch of nazis yeah which is kind of like 01:13:46.480 --> 01:13:51.260 having him turned over to die yeah well he's turned turn is having him turned over to die and 01:13:51.280 --> 01:14:01.800 also using using racialist thoughts as your instrument i mean that that that didn't yeah 01:14:01.900 --> 01:14:07.700 that the other thing that i found quite interesting not interesting i don't know the other thing i 01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:17.140 found it gave me pause because this sort of thing seemed to happen in the sound of drums um the the 01:14:17.420 --> 01:14:24.380 the i'm sure the the master made the doctor kneel or you know tried to humiliate him in some way 01:14:24.900 --> 01:14:31.760 and here he does it again yeah but this time he's doing it to a woman yeah is that worse it 01:14:32.250 --> 01:14:38.040 it kind of yes it did it did i i i projected something completely different about a woman 01:14:38.240 --> 01:14:43.520 kneeling in front of a man well it was just the first when he did it yeah there was that and i'm 01:14:43.420 --> 01:14:52.100 like and there's both that and subservience and all around it's just like oh oh yeah and the funny 01:14:52.490 --> 01:14:57.760 you know the funny thing is i've always thought and i guess maybe this is just me but you know 01:14:57.860 --> 01:15:02.640 when i first heard of the doctor and the master it's like you know well that's because a doctor's 01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:10.840 degree is higher than a master's degree yeah so that is not i i don't i take those as degrees 01:15:11.360 --> 01:15:17.980 not as in uh professions i never have yes in my brain they're always i think as opposed to the 01:15:18.020 --> 01:15:23.540 doctor fixes things and the master wants to crawl roll everything i take it as the master's just not 01:15:23.540 --> 01:15:28.380 as good as the doctor yeah which which he isn't i mean that's always been the case 01:15:29.160 --> 01:15:32.540 so call me by my name is like okay undergradsman 01:15:35.040 --> 01:15:39.080 he think he thinks he's a criminal genius and actually he's just a bit rubbish 01:15:39.720 --> 01:15:48.200 yeah so um all right well i i look forward to seeing him back though i look forward to seeing 01:15:48.300 --> 01:15:55.420 him come back in his equivalent to the doctor falls you know a few years time when he's allowed 01:15:55.440 --> 01:16:01.600 to be good and do it his way well oh i just need to i need to i need to ask you on the on the master 01:16:02.580 --> 01:16:07.680 so i mean one thing there's obviously been speculation about is was he is he the master 01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:12.420 after missy or is he a master from earlier because of the whole continuity question 01:16:13.080 --> 01:16:18.520 and also his tardis as sunday reappeared which you know missy didn't have a tardis 01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:25.180 john sim at some point after he escaped from gallifrey but obviously by the time he became 01:16:25.400 --> 01:16:31.100 he didn't have it anymore anyway well then then they went back to gallifrey with a vortex 01:16:31.460 --> 01:16:36.620 manipulator and stole one and then destroyed gallifrey i mean if they went to gallifrey 01:16:37.080 --> 01:16:43.980 oh he might have gone yes he might have gone to gallifrey and um so so the master was 01:16:44.700 --> 01:16:52.540 poddling along and came across o and tissue compression eliminated o and stole his identity 01:16:53.380 --> 01:16:59.480 does that mean he stole his entire physical appearance it feels like that but i i didn't 01:16:59.620 --> 01:17:05.099 i thought that the first time through but when i watched it the second time i'm not sure i'm not 01:17:04.980 --> 01:17:10.580 sure because it's not clear to me that i i think we don't see the little mini o when the doctor 01:17:10.780 --> 01:17:18.440 met o before she met this version of o yes in other words he was already the master yes and 01:17:18.880 --> 01:17:24.340 o says when he met the doctor before she was a man but i don't know if that's true because that 01:17:24.340 --> 01:17:31.020 would mean that one previous what the doctor effectively the doctor would have had to have 01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:39.160 met o before the doctor falls for the doctor um which i'm starting to get confused about so maybe 01:17:39.300 --> 01:17:42.920 o was lying about that because the doctor said the doctor it would have been quite strange if 01:17:42.960 --> 01:17:52.560 the doctor thought that o was an mi6 analyst that he'd explained to o that sometimes he regenerated 01:17:52.700 --> 01:17:59.280 and oh he might turn into a completely different person including he might change sex to so that 01:17:59.300 --> 01:18:06.040 when the doctor turns up in the outback oh doesn't look on face doesn't blink now play playing so 01:18:06.380 --> 01:18:12.620 because we although oh does have a file remember he has a whole shelf full of files on the doctor 01:18:12.780 --> 01:18:17.460 which makes no sense at all considering it's the master yes which is which is the problem because 01:18:17.620 --> 01:18:22.600 there's a whole load of there's a load of pretending to be one thing and then turning 01:18:22.600 --> 01:18:28.600 out to be another which is fine but we never we never get a sufficient explanation of what is 01:18:28.920 --> 01:18:34.140 what is the actual truth because we're being told things but we're never the master's long-term 01:18:34.420 --> 01:18:39.440 plans where he pretends to be someone else don't make any sense they've never made any sense look 01:18:39.700 --> 01:18:49.260 cast revolver uh uh you know any of those plans where the master takes on a disguise for centuries 01:18:50.120 --> 01:18:57.619 or just waiting for the doctor to fall into his trap they just don't make any sense it's like and 01:18:57.540 --> 01:18:58.360 This is another one. 01:18:58.900 --> 01:19:10.200 If O was working on a trap to bring the doctor in, which he says he was, and he met the doctor before, surely he had a trap he could have sprung on the doctor the last time they met. 01:19:10.540 --> 01:19:11.680 If they met. 01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:13.100 If they met, yes. 01:19:13.240 --> 01:19:25.000 And if the master, if the doctor originally met the real O, the master must have taken over the full appearance of O. 01:19:25.420 --> 01:19:27.480 That feels like that has to be the case. 01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:28.420 In which case... 01:19:28.420 --> 01:19:30.120 He did say something about keeping him as a backup. 01:19:30.700 --> 01:19:32.100 The master must have been someone else 01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:34.800 before they were Sasha DeWall, in other words. 01:19:35.320 --> 01:19:38.140 But presumably after they were Michelle Gomez, 01:19:38.460 --> 01:19:41.020 if Sasha DeWall is indeed the one after Michelle Gomez. 01:19:41.580 --> 01:19:42.400 My brain hurts. 01:19:43.420 --> 01:19:43.960 Will we ever know? 01:19:44.040 --> 01:19:44.240 Yeah. 01:19:46.060 --> 01:19:48.720 I don't think the writer cares enough 01:19:48.980 --> 01:19:50.680 to bother to make an excuse. 01:19:51.140 --> 01:19:52.060 So I think... 01:19:52.640 --> 01:19:53.280 No, I don't think so. 01:19:53.420 --> 01:19:57.480 There'll be a release from Big Finish in about 2053 that explains it all. 01:19:57.680 --> 01:19:59.880 I was going to say, well, you know, if they work on it now, 01:20:00.080 --> 01:20:03.320 maybe they can fit him in in the 2021 release of Masterful. 01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:06.100 But I don't know. 01:20:07.400 --> 01:20:08.340 Question about caring. 01:20:09.800 --> 01:20:12.100 The references to the timeless child. 01:20:12.900 --> 01:20:13.980 Do we care? 01:20:14.540 --> 01:20:15.680 Why, no, we don't. 01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:16.500 Why should we? 01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:16.840 Okay. 01:20:17.420 --> 01:20:20.940 I find it a mystery that's not interesting. 01:20:21.540 --> 01:20:21.880 It doesn't. 01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:23.380 No, because... 01:20:23.400 --> 01:20:23.980 But, okay. 01:20:24.140 --> 01:20:32.560 It means nothing to us because we don't know what the Gallifreyan myth about the timeless child is or why everything is built on that story. 01:20:33.280 --> 01:20:35.040 Why it's a lie and why does it matter? 01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:35.740 Yeah. 01:20:35.960 --> 01:20:36.280 Okay. 01:20:36.380 --> 01:20:49.140 So if, let's say, your parents came to you and said, by the way, everything you know about your family history and the history of it's all a lie, none of it's true. 01:20:50.460 --> 01:20:53.080 It's completely just made up. 01:20:53.300 --> 01:20:59.180 adopted you, you were found under a rock somewhere, you know, whatever it happens to be, right? 01:20:59.580 --> 01:21:06.080 Doesn't change you. It doesn't change anything about you. So if somebody lied about the founding 01:21:06.150 --> 01:21:15.240 of your country or a founding of your planet or the nature, it doesn't matter. It just doesn't 01:21:15.390 --> 01:21:20.160 matter. It's hard to envision something that would be so devastating that you would go, 01:21:20.220 --> 01:21:22.720 oh you rotten liars 01:21:22.940 --> 01:21:24.400 I'm going to kill you all 01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:25.860 and blow up your planet 01:21:26.560 --> 01:21:27.820 even if I am a crazy guy 01:21:28.280 --> 01:21:28.580 I just 01:21:30.340 --> 01:21:31.100 I don't care 01:21:31.720 --> 01:21:34.800 I literally don't care about the history of Gallifrey 01:21:35.160 --> 01:21:36.300 or anything about it 01:21:36.700 --> 01:21:38.580 a little bit you know tidbit here and there 01:21:38.580 --> 01:21:39.380 but I just don't care 01:21:40.060 --> 01:21:42.820 and if you're going to make that your true mystery 01:21:43.580 --> 01:21:44.020 and 01:21:45.160 --> 01:21:46.640 you know and it'll come back 01:21:46.670 --> 01:21:48.680 when the Vore come back at the end of the series 01:21:48.700 --> 01:21:54.360 just like Toothface did from the last one, Tim Shaw, inexplicably. 01:21:55.020 --> 01:21:55.220 It'll come back. 01:21:55.220 --> 01:21:55.840 Yeah, it'll come back. 01:21:56.270 --> 01:21:56.400 Yeah. 01:21:56.940 --> 01:22:01.900 But I mean, to me, it's like, it's not Gallifrey per se. 01:22:02.700 --> 01:22:05.820 I've listened to the audio series set on Gallifrey. 01:22:05.910 --> 01:22:10.160 I find all of the kind of political shenanigans quite entertaining 01:22:10.230 --> 01:22:13.120 if you're listening to stories about political shenanigans. 01:22:13.900 --> 01:22:17.860 But this is just, there is no story being told. 01:22:18.200 --> 01:22:21.420 There is no story being told because we don't know anything about the Timeless Child. 01:22:21.530 --> 01:22:22.600 So why should we care? 01:22:23.220 --> 01:22:24.960 Yeah, it's not the Time Lord Galvin. 01:22:25.010 --> 01:22:27.300 He said something of his oil a lie about Rassilon. 01:22:27.540 --> 01:22:32.980 At least we'd have like, well, I know some stuff about Rassilon or Omega. 01:22:33.400 --> 01:22:35.140 I don't particularly care about Rassilon. 01:22:35.250 --> 01:22:44.820 What I need is I need to know a lot more about the Timeless Child or Rassilon or whoever before some reveal about them actually makes me go. 01:22:44.820 --> 01:22:46.040 You know something about Rassilon. 01:22:46.400 --> 01:22:47.000 Oh, my God. 01:22:47.560 --> 01:22:54.240 But if it's just like there was, it's like someone telling you a story and it's some 01:22:54.580 --> 01:22:58.300 shocking story about someone you've never heard of and know nothing about. 01:22:58.910 --> 01:23:00.420 And you're supposed to be shocked about it. 01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:05.220 Whereas if someone tells you a shocking story about, I don't know, your next door neighbor 01:23:05.360 --> 01:23:08.000 who you lived next door to for 20 years and you didn't know this. 01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:08.640 The axe murderer. 01:23:09.390 --> 01:23:09.520 Wow. 01:23:10.620 --> 01:23:13.580 But you've got 20 years of buildup for that to have an impact. 01:23:14.240 --> 01:23:14.440 Right. 01:23:14.940 --> 01:23:15.060 Right. 01:23:15.300 --> 01:23:17.300 In the timeless child is nothing. 01:23:17.360 --> 01:23:21.900 so yeah it's it's just gonna mess up it's just gonna mess up continuity 01:23:22.570 --> 01:23:28.220 i just i just have a bad feeling about that the war doctor was was that something that messed up 01:23:28.500 --> 01:23:36.920 continuity but it was something that connected with something that had been built up over this 01:23:37.040 --> 01:23:44.599 sort of eight years or so so that the show had been back and you know it was it was quite cleverly 01:23:44.620 --> 01:23:50.340 done yeah but this this well we'll see we'll see it's hard to tell at this stage all we all we're 01:23:50.340 --> 01:23:54.440 getting is the kind of foreshadowing of something happens i'm not sure we're supposed to care about 01:23:54.500 --> 01:24:01.240 it at this point but we'll see it's it's it's bad wolf it's bad wolf all over again it feels like 01:24:01.280 --> 01:24:05.200 all right do you have anything else on this episode i'm sure there's other stuff that that 01:24:05.700 --> 01:24:10.520 well you know there's not we're not gonna go there project yes he called it judderal bank 01:24:11.100 --> 01:24:15.940 she called it jodril bank but they never called it jodril bank they called it the faros project 01:24:16.050 --> 01:24:23.600 in lagoplas i guess it was the faros project at jodril bank now apparently the tce is back 01:24:23.600 --> 01:24:30.700 the tissue compression eliminator yay yeah i i like that much better than a laser screwdriver 01:24:31.600 --> 01:24:39.260 and uh no well i'm i've got big hopes that the next one is going to be better at least it's um 01:24:39.280 --> 01:24:44.860 It's written by the guy who wrote one of the absolute Stone Cold classics from the last season. 01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:48.900 I keep forgetting the name, but I just think of it as the Frog on the Chair episode. 01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:50.620 Oh, dear. 01:24:52.020 --> 01:24:53.320 And that does not bode well to me. 01:24:53.320 --> 01:24:54.980 They Take You Away, I think it was called. 01:24:55.480 --> 01:24:56.560 Yes, I think that's it. 01:24:56.680 --> 01:24:57.340 They Take You Away. 01:24:57.380 --> 01:24:58.440 Yes, this is going to be good. 01:24:58.920 --> 01:25:03.160 The only thing is it's directed by the person who directed Spyfall Part 2, which... 01:25:03.420 --> 01:25:04.240 It's not necessarily... 01:25:04.260 --> 01:25:06.340 I'm just hoping will be an opportunity for redemption. 01:25:07.020 --> 01:25:13.600 I gotta say, you know, they put so little in the trailer that it's not enough to even wet my interest. 01:25:14.220 --> 01:25:18.860 I don't mind. I don't need it. I'm going to watch Doctor Who anyway. I don't need a trailer. 01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:22.600 I am going to watch Doctor Who anyway, but then why bother with the trailer? 01:25:23.120 --> 01:25:24.960 If you're not trying to wet the interest, why bother? 01:25:25.820 --> 01:25:30.120 I don't know. I wouldn't bother. I wish they didn't do them. All they ever do is include spoilers. 01:25:31.520 --> 01:25:33.700 Just let me come to it fresh, please. 01:25:34.240 --> 01:25:41.900 I know in the part two trailer, the trailer for part two of Spyfall, they didn't even show the doctor or any of the fam. 01:25:42.460 --> 01:25:43.820 Because they were dead, obviously. 01:25:44.140 --> 01:25:46.700 I mean, they didn't want to spoil the fact that they escaped from the plane. 01:25:47.340 --> 01:25:47.440 Yeah. 01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:48.160 But yeah. 01:25:48.580 --> 01:25:49.620 I definitely thought they were dead. 01:25:50.440 --> 01:25:50.600 Yeah. 01:25:51.240 --> 01:25:53.800 I was hoping actually at one point there. 01:25:55.620 --> 01:25:56.660 Got it at one point. 01:25:58.440 --> 01:25:59.180 I was. 01:25:59.400 --> 01:25:59.720 All right. 01:26:00.080 --> 01:26:01.820 Well, Simon, thank you for joining me. 01:26:02.220 --> 01:26:03.120 It's a pleasure as always. 01:26:03.780 --> 01:26:06.520 Uh, listeners, hope you'll join us all again next time. 01:26:06.600 --> 01:26:13.460 And I will remind you that for, for those of you who are, uh, Patreon patrons, uh, or 01:26:13.620 --> 01:26:17.940 those who want to become sponsors, we are putting out a series of podcasts, short podcasts, 01:26:18.680 --> 01:26:22.760 just because this was not long enough, um, on various Doctor Who topics. 01:26:22.860 --> 01:26:26.720 And I think this week, almost certainly, I think it's going to be about the master through 01:26:26.740 --> 01:26:27.140 the ages. 01:26:28.220 --> 01:26:31.980 So, uh, please join us again next time on Fusion Patrol. 01:26:33.900 --> 01:26:38.440 you've been listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast find out how you can be a 01:26:38.640 --> 01:26:44.360 sponsor and get early access to all episodes and more at patreon.com slash fusion patrol 01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:50.340 come join the conversation on facebook or twitter 01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:55.440 all episodes are available at fusion patrol.com 01:26:58.340 --> 01:27:01.160 our music is fight the future by amber wolf 01:27:04.000 --> 01:27:06.560 This has been a Lone Locust production