WEBVTT

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We take a single episode of a science fiction TV series and overanalyze it to within an

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inch of its life.

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This is the Fusion Patrol Podcast.

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Welcome to the discussion.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. I'm Eugene.

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And I'm Simon.

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And tonight we are looking at yet another, and I am always, always happy when I can add yet another animated Doctor Who adventure to our hopefully someday complete
collection of every Doctor Who episode that ever existed.

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I can hope.

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But this time it's the second Doctor adventure, The Macra Terror.

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On an Earth colony, a man, Medoc, causes a scene during practice for a celebration.

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He's seen creatures in the colony at night.

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His cries are branded as hallucinations, but he runs away before they can restrain him.

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He is inadvertently captured by the doctor, Jamie, Polly, and Ben,

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who are thanked for capturing the dangerous man and taken back to the colony as guests.

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Everyone there is very cheerful and works very hard.

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but the doctor has his suspicions and wants to talk to Medoc.

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He releases him from captivity.

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That night, the doctor finds Medoc outside after curfew.

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They encounter the Macra, giant crab-like creatures.

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They are recaptured, and Medoc naively believes they'll have to believe him this time.

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The leader of the colony is the pilot, but he is overseen by Control,

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an unmoving photo of a face on a viewscreen.

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Rather than get the doctor in trouble, Medoc lies to the pilot,

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telling him that the doctor was trying to convince him to surrender.

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Medoc is sent for rehabilitation.

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Control orders the Doctor and gang to be subjected to high-power adaptation while they sleep.

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Only Ben is weak-willed enough to be overcome by the insidious brainwashing,

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and turns the Doctor in for sabotaging the equipment.

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Polly leaves, trying to get away from the traitorous Ben, but she encounters the Macra.

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Ben finds her and helps her escape the clutches of the Macra,

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but when they return to the pilot and try to corroborate the Doctor's tale that there are creatures,

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Ben denies the Macra exist.

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They convince the pilot to show them the real controller,

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not just the photograph on the screen.

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And when control allows it, it is the same man, but ancient.

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A broken wreck of a man willing to do anything his unseen captors tell him.

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The Doctor, Polly, and Jamie are sentenced to working in the gas mines,

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and the voice of control makes everyone else forget what they saw.

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They meet up with Medoc, who is also in the mines.

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He protects the Doctor by getting him assigned above-ground work in the control room.

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The Doctor agrees so that he can find a way to cause mischief.

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In the mine, Jamie escapes down a forbidden tunnel.

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Medoc attempts to follow him, but is killed by the Macra.

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When Ben betrays Jamie again, gas is pumped into the tunnels to incapacitate him.

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The gas also serves some other sinister purpose.

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The Doctor reverses the gas flow just in time to save Jamie,

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But he and Polly must escape down another forbidden tunnel,

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where they find the control room filled with Macra running the colony.

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The Macra need the poisonous gas to survive.

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Gosh, if they needed poisonous gas to survive,

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we could have just given them all our car pollution.

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Escaping and then returning to see the pilot again,

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the doctor convinces him to go see what he's discovered.

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Control go crazy, deposing the pilot and demanding their capture.

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But after the pilot sees the truth, they are trapped in a tunnel with a gas being pumped in.

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Ben regains his senses when his friends are in danger and, with the doctor's coaching, causes a gas explosion, killing the Macra.

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The colony is saved.

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The gang escape the planet before the doctor can be named the new pilot.

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The end.

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Just gonna ask, what was wrong with the old pilot? He wasn't dead yet.

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Anyway, MacRater, so tell us the provenance of this animation.

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Simon, I'm sure you're more versed on it than I am.

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Well, the provenance is it's from the same stable as the full reanimation of Power of the Daleks

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and the more recent animation of the missing bits

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or the never filmed bits of Sharda

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directed by Graham Norton, I think, at least most of it.

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And also the very short screening from a couple of years back

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of about 10 minutes of Wheel in Space at the BFI.

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That's right.

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They did put that BFI, that Wheel in Space thing

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that never went anywhere

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because they haven't reanimated all of Wheel in Space.

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Which we all thought was going to be the rest of Wheel in Space

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But it turned out, no, they were not lying when they said

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It's just 10 minutes, but there you go

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They should be smacked upside the face for that, I have to say

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And you don't have access to the BritBox Wheel in Space recreation

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That they put together a year or so ago for the United States, do you?

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We had something like BritBox over here, but I didn't have it

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I don't think it's available in any other form.

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What I do have is the...

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So Macro Terror has been animated to release on home video,

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like a lot of the other ones that we have looked at.

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And it has been released along with the recons for the episodes as well.

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So you get quite a good double disc Blu-ray or DVD with an animation.

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And another difference with this one, well, I guess Shado also was,

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but this one was animated in color.

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So it was Power of the Daleks.

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Oh, no, no, I see what you're saying.

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Power of the Daleks was animated black, white, and colorized, wasn't it?

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It was indeed.

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So it was released with a color version.

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So obviously there may have been some market testing going on there,

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But it was done, as I understand it, as something of an afterthought where they'd animated it.

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And then I think maybe even a different team put the put the colour on to create a colour version because they thought, well, we've got this here and we can make it more
more attractive for a modern audience by having it in colour.

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And then clearly the next animation release was Sharda and that was going to be in colour anyway, because it's a colour story.

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And with this one, they went in and animated it in colour and then produced a black and white version alongside it on the DVD.

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So you get the colour version, you get the black and white version and you get the recon episodes.

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And it's a very good package.

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You get them with the, as has been done with a number of the recons,

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with the kind of explanatory text on screen,

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because the kind of surviving footage plus stills doesn't always explain all the action.

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Right.

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You also get the option to play it with the linking narration,

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which explains the missing action recorded by Annika Wills for the CD release of it.

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So it's a pretty complete package.

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And if that weren't enough, you do get 10 minutes of wheeling space on top of that.

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Well, I mean, it sounds like an amazing package.

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And if only they'd release it in the United States before October of 2019.

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I really am at a loss on that.

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It's strange.

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Very strange.

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It's pirated all over the place in the United States.

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I know for a fact.

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I don't understand why they would not think it would be.

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I mean, they're going to release it in the US.

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Why not?

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I really would market is is it because they have to master it differently for for NTSC or or whatever whatever technically we use now in HD?

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I is it because they don't want to crowd other releases?

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Well, I think that's much more likely.

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I think I think it's much less likely to be anything technical because I can't see why it would require that much time.

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And even if it did, you could delay the whole release.

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I think it's more likely to be a marketing issue.

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Certainly over here, the other kind of big Doctor...

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Well, I think you get them in the US as well.

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The other kind of big Doctor Who home video releases that are going on now

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are getting about three seasons a year of the classic show coming out on Blu-ray.

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And they always announce the next one before one gets released.

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Well, they held off on doing that when the Macra Terror came out

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so that they could give it its own moment in the limelight,

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which obviously will have helped it in the UK market.

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That was like April, right?

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It didn't have done much for the US.

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Yes, it came out, or maybe it was earlier than that.

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Certainly, yeah, first quarter of 2019.

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All right.

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Well, and this is all four episodes.

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This is all four episodes?

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Nothing survives.

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It's like Power of the Daleks.

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It's all episodes.

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Clips survive, but nothing amounting to a complete,

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well, I'd say a complete episode.

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barely anything amounts to a complete scene so yes it's it's an unlike most of the ones that we

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have looked at it's only only power of the daleks was completely and that was obviously six episodes

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and this is four episodes so it's a it's a pretty major undertaking in animation terms where all the

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others were two episodes at the most yeah why macro terror i mean why that story again i guess

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you'd have to you'd have to say well i i mean to turn it the other way around which missing

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stories and i i get i guess that there has to be some reason why they're going for completely

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missing stories um which which completely missing stories would you like to see back

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or an animated version of uh i you know i'd have to be looking at a list in in front of me and to

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remember which is completely missing which is completely missing you know i mean i can think

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of many episodes well many oh wheel in space comes right off the top of my head but it's not

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completely missing well no but episode yeah three and six or three and five of that is still around

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two yeah two of them still exist so um and it's an important one picking up cyberman picking up a

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new companion um i i my my the thing that automatically comes into my head for complete

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stories I want back would be the Highlanders

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yeah but it isn't historical

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those are not yeah

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I'd like to see that I would like to see the

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Highlanders don't get me wrong that would be

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up there because it is the first episode

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with Jamie and

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I would definitely like to see that but

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you know if I had the list in front of me and there was like

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probably any space ones first

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would be the more likely

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of the bunch but

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I don't know it just

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seemed you know it would make sense

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to me if they just started at the earliest

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completely missing episode and said we're going to do missing ones let's do marco polo or which

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is a huge one what is it like 28 parts long something it's about it's about seven i think

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i mean that is completely missing and i i would love to see that they did power of the daleks

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which was six yeah um i get i guess your point about historical stand stands with that but so

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what do we have after power of the daleks then okay so let's work on the assumption here that

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these guys have created the artwork and they're reusing the artwork although they're not because

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polly has a short haircut um but i guess you could just rejig her head um you know from power well

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okay i have i have you know what came after power of the dogs you've got the highlanders is that the

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very next one yes i thought there was one okay so there's the highlanders and then pretty soon we

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get to the moon base uh that's that's a little bit later there's a there's an important one that i

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certainly would like to see completely well not completely reanimated the missing episodes

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reanimated following the hinders because i consider it to be a significant uh story in

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terms of just the quality and a standout in terms of doctor who history which is of course

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the underwater menace oh yeah okay see underwater menace i'd like to see them restore the underwater

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menace so it wouldn't be that horrible mess that they gave us before the recon was terrible i mean

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it's a story it's a story that it deserves be having some attention lavish it might even be

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It would be much more watchable if they animated it back again.

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I would certainly watch it again if they do that.

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I will give them my money again if they animate Underwater Menace.

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And I didn't like it, but I am willing to acknowledge that it could very well be

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because I thought not only was it just a recon, which I'm not a big fan of,

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it was a terrible recon.

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The sound was bad.

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the pictures they only had like the six pictures for the entire story they just kept using them

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over and over and over again um this this sounds though maybe an issue that would put them off

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doing the animation but they did i my understanding is that they were told i was told that they were

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told so the the guy who did the underwater menace and the reconstruction team was at a gallifrey one

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that i attended to i'm sure i must have mentioned at the time and they were given explicit instructions

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to do nothing to make it better.

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And so no sound processing, no, you know, we can do better,

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we can clean up these pictures, we can do something.

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No, nothing.

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Get it out the door.

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And I just, you know, I don't know.

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But I think that, you know, I don't think it's thought to be

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one of the greatest stories in Doctor Who history by many people.

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It's not highly regarded.

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I don't think that release did it justice,

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that it might be better. And since we're on that topic, prior to watching the Macro Terror,

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you know, based on your understanding of fan perception or community perception,

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what do you want to call it, the Macro Terror? Where did the Macro Terror sit in the pantheon

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of stories that people thought would be important or good? I think there's a reflection here of the

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fact that we have we've spent 15 minutes talking about the other stories that might have been

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animated rather than talking about the macro terror itself which we have just watched and

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so i guess that probably indicates we're not particularly eager to discuss it it's not i

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certainly that that that reflect so what i would say is give me any trout and story that's that's

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missing i will be delighted to have something back in the fold great um macro terror was never one

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that you heard the kind of whispers of oh that's that's a really great story if only that was the

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one that that gets rediscovered in some cache of film canisters somewhere right eastern africa or

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wherever it's it just doesn't have that kind of reputation nope okay i mean there are people who

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would want that one missing episode of web of fear probably would say i'll take one web of fear

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over all of Macro Terror.

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I think that's short-sighted, but I would...

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No, I probably don't care.

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I can imagine fandom saying that.

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Okay.

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I would, yeah.

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So I watched this with my friend David,

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who is also a very long-time Doctor Who fan.

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And going into this, we kind of had a little discussion about this.

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It's like, where do you think Macro Terror?

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I mean, why Macro Terror?

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It's like, this is not...

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It's like, this is a mystery why they would pick this one.

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But okay, I don't care.

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It's Troughton's story.

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We're getting it back.

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ready to watch it and when we're done with it i will tell you right now we both enjoyed it quite

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a bit it's like that's not nearly as bad as we thought it was going to be it's not bad you know

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it's like i don't want to give that impression i was that was a perfectly serviceable good episode

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service doctor who it wasn't it wasn't fantastic there is a lot of oh we've been captured oh we've

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been let loose oh we've been captured oh we've been let loose so we've been captured we've been

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let loose but well i i yes i mean i think i think it's not the best trout and team it suffers from

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the fact that there are three companions yeah and so the whole ben getting brainwashed thing

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is obviously just a way to shunt him out of the picture so i i can wow i can see why ben craze

00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:51.100
was not happy about the whole jamie thing you know if this is what they're you mean michael

00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:56.459
craze the actor yeah so did i say ben craze yeah michael craze yeah i can see why he was not really

00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:02.660
on board with this idea because this smells of hey let's give action to the highland guy

00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:10.260
and and i i have i have nothing against ben but he's a long way from being one of my favorite

00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:16.400
companions he works quite well because there's a nice dynamic with polly so when when it's the

00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:22.480
two of them yeah you know it's him and the duchess i i enjoy i enjoy them as a team rather

00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:23.959
rather than being particularly a Ben fan,

00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:24.360
I'm a,

00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:24.760
you know,

00:17:24.860 --> 00:17:26.300
it's Ben and Polly's package.

00:17:26.800 --> 00:17:27.760
Jamie is a much,

00:17:27.939 --> 00:17:29.560
much more interesting companion.

00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:33.640
I would probably rate Jamie and Zoe as perhaps my favorite all time

00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.600
companion team from the show.

00:17:37.179 --> 00:17:39.920
So I can see why he would feel eclipsed.

00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:40.320
Yeah.

00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:40.760
Yeah.

00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:43.480
So that's one thing that came out of it.

00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:46.900
And I think another thing I'm going to say is I think this story benefited,

00:17:47.820 --> 00:17:48.440
just like I was saying,

00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.300
I think underwater menace did not benefit from the recon that they did.

00:17:52.840 --> 00:17:58.240
i think this story benefited from the fact that they animated it and they did a nice color job

00:17:58.520 --> 00:18:05.540
and they didn't try to shot for shot recreate it in in some ways i mean obviously the macro right

00:18:05.710 --> 00:18:13.200
right don't look anything like i so let me i i i want i want most of what i want to talk about is

00:18:13.580 --> 00:18:18.740
to do with the animation and i have i have in the same way observed the differences

00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:20.260
between the animation.

00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.340
I just got another couple of points about the story

00:18:23.360 --> 00:18:25.820
and then I think I'm done with discussing the story.

00:18:26.820 --> 00:18:30.860
One is that it seemed to me to be like

00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.760
Ian Stewart Black had decided it would be a good idea

00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:39.400
on a children's TV show to do a retelling of 1984.

00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:41.240
But did you notice that?

00:18:43.280 --> 00:18:44.380
Is it...

00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.200
I mean, I just thought, you know, it's kind of like...

00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:52.260
Well, the whole control on the screen thing,

00:18:52.550 --> 00:18:56.360
very much in your face and reminiscent of the...

00:18:56.560 --> 00:18:57.120
Big Brother.

00:18:57.410 --> 00:19:00.000
Yeah, in the film version of the rest of it.

00:19:00.120 --> 00:19:03.640
But either he thought it would be a good idea

00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:04.980
to do a children's version of this book,

00:19:05.040 --> 00:19:07.040
or maybe he just thought that, you know, 1984,

00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:09.120
ripping story, jolly good,

00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:12.220
but it would have been better if it had giant crabs in it.

00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.520
So let's do that.

00:19:17.159 --> 00:19:26.220
uh there are some there are some uh uh interesting uh questions as to why uh yes

00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:34.360
why the the macro are what the macro are in this story i i mean that aside i i do quite

00:19:34.760 --> 00:19:41.100
i'll admit i quite like the idea of a colony ruled by giant crabs i'm not sure the groundwork

00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:48.080
is there to quite put it all together but you know so some of it that the again i think the the

00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:55.240
idea of them having of them having to be sealed in this gas in order to survive and that they

00:19:55.510 --> 00:20:00.760
you know perhaps because it's not their natural environment they need slaves to mine the gas for

00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:07.280
them or whatever it is um bit bit sort of reminiscent of the the gas fats in quatermass

00:20:07.300 --> 00:20:12.580
two but maybe that's just because we only recently did it right um but it didn't make sense to me

00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:18.060
that then they they were sealed there in their control room fine but then for example where

00:20:18.300 --> 00:20:22.800
polly goes onto the building site bumps into them in episode two yeah they're out every night she's

00:20:22.800 --> 00:20:28.120
not having any trouble with gas or whatever they seem to be so she can breathe so it's obviously

00:20:28.700 --> 00:20:35.400
normal oxygen it doesn't make any sense it doesn't yeah that that part was bugging me throughout the

00:20:35.420 --> 00:20:43.000
course of the episode um first off we kind of i think the doctor kind of gives a brief explanation

00:20:43.180 --> 00:20:48.620
that maybe these creatures came up from the depths of the planet which eh giant crab like creatures

00:20:48.820 --> 00:20:56.000
from caves within the planet it seems a little dodgy and if they can't breathe up here why did

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.860
they come up here i mean i guess if they're intelligent maybe it's just like going into space

00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:16.940
Yeah, and it's like us developing air travel or, you know, being able to, perhaps a better example, air conditioning, being able to live in large numbers in places
where it would probably otherwise be fairly uninhabitable.

00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:20.680
Yeah, I can think of a place like that up the top of my head.

00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:23.120
Funny that.

00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:24.460
Yeah, yes.

00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:27.660
And maybe they're trying to, what will we call it?

00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:29.200
Let's call it macroform the planet.

00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:30.720
Maybe that's the ultimate goal.

00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:31.840
Yes.

00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:35.340
You know, to gas it all up so that they can live and kill off the colony.

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:42.300
You know, it's not an unreasonable ambition for an alien or for an intelligent race.

00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:46.580
Let's not call them alien, but to try to adapt their environment.

00:21:46.760 --> 00:21:48.200
So I kind of get that.

00:21:48.360 --> 00:21:50.060
But it does just seem a little weird.

00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:55.220
Then every night they seem to be able to come out and crawl around the colony,

00:21:55.780 --> 00:22:00.160
which, if we're correct, is poisonous gas to them, what we understand.

00:22:00.520 --> 00:22:03.000
Now, it would be different if maybe they tried to give us this,

00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:08.380
oh, at night the mists come out and the planet's not as habitable for humans.

00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:13.240
I think we've seen that on another Doctor Who episode somewhere along the line.

00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:25.240
And it's clearly just they need the devices there to have the macro sinister background appearances of the macro before before we get the full on reveal.

00:22:25.620 --> 00:22:28.180
It adds tension to the story, et cetera, et cetera.

00:22:28.600 --> 00:22:39.860
They just haven't done the groundwork to get away with that kind of shit because there's no there's no actual legitimate story reason why these macro wandering around
in the first place.

00:22:40.060 --> 00:22:44.300
As far as I can tell. Yeah, there's no reason. I mean, what are they you know, what are they hoping to find out there?

00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:49.660
people yeah when you tell the story without it what do you do with that now i kind of wonder

00:22:49.830 --> 00:22:55.960
though to flip this and kind of talking about the animation i wonder if the macro would have been

00:22:56.180 --> 00:23:03.080
more effective and believable in the original televised form where if i understand correctly

00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:09.260
you really don't see them much you know they are really truly in the shadows they are really kind

00:23:09.380 --> 00:23:14.520
of hiding off here we're not seeing them ambulate around like they are here i mean they're

00:23:14.540 --> 00:23:18.980
pretty mobile in this version you see them you know booking along on their six little legs and

00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:24.940
whatnot which you know makes them look like they're doing a lot better out than maybe they did

00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:31.600
okay so here's here's the thing about this animation which i think is a particular thing

00:23:32.060 --> 00:23:38.740
about what what has been done in this story um in in the degree of it because i think we've talked

00:23:39.020 --> 00:23:45.280
in the past maybe a bit about style in particular thinking about things like reign of terror where

00:23:45.280 --> 00:23:51.620
there was a much more anime feel to that animation and that was reeled in by the producers saying no

00:23:51.700 --> 00:23:57.980
no we want you to stick to stick to something that's a bit more vanilla and yet although the

00:23:58.090 --> 00:24:03.660
although the style of the animation which i i is a kind of separate issue which we can come back to

00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:09.320
the style of the animation isn't particularly um you know it's not particularly stylized the

00:24:09.940 --> 00:24:17.560
the scope of what you can do with animation in terms of budget in the sense that certain things

00:24:17.560 --> 00:24:21.160
are very expensive in animation like doing all the kind of motion and lots of different

00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:28.140
jobs of complicated things but on the other hand you can make your macro much more impressive

00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:32.960
because you don't have any of the constraints of have it having to be a costume and work and

00:24:33.100 --> 00:24:41.020
And you can do kind of instead of having to do models of the colony or whatever, you can just do a drawing and it looks terrific and all this kind of thing.

00:24:41.660 --> 00:24:48.860
So, yeah, OK, there's there is a there is a scope to do things that wouldn't have been possible then.

00:24:49.280 --> 00:25:02.420
And therefore attention between are you trying to recreate what was or are you trying to do the best possible telling of the story that you've got with the tools that are
in front of you?

00:25:02.500 --> 00:25:12.260
Because in some sense, the animation is never going to be a perfect substitute for actually rediscovering the original film, if it still exists anywhere.

00:25:13.520 --> 00:25:18.620
But maybe the payoff for that is that you can do these things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.

00:25:18.860 --> 00:25:27.080
And I imagine that's what is behind the thinking here, up to and including choices like making it in colour.

00:25:28.100 --> 00:25:29.760
And only making ones that nothing exists,

00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.120
so you don't have to switch back and forth between the clunk.

00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:35.460
So, for example, if one episode of the Macra existed

00:25:35.620 --> 00:25:39.220
and we saw the stupid plastic tentacle or claw...

00:25:39.220 --> 00:25:39.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:40.320
Yeah.

00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.820
Your design is much more constrained to match the things

00:25:45.020 --> 00:25:47.020
that are in the episodes that exist.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.960
So, you know, in some senses, Sharda absolutely had to do that

00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.080
because you were switching back and forth from scene to scene

00:25:53.180 --> 00:25:53.920
in order to do that.

00:25:54.320 --> 00:25:55.100
I am...

00:25:55.539 --> 00:25:55.940
Sorry.

00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:57.660
No, I was going to say, go ahead.

00:25:57.760 --> 00:26:08.020
I was going to ask you about the stylistic choice of rendering the Macra in basically 3D computer rendering instead of what appears to be hand-drawn rendering.

00:26:08.360 --> 00:26:09.460
The Macra do not...

00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:10.820
There's a lot of 3D in this.

00:26:11.280 --> 00:26:12.560
Not the characters, of course.

00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:18.240
But those are two-dimensional drawing rigged up just like they did in Power of the Daleks.

00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:19.540
But the Macra and stuff are...

00:26:19.540 --> 00:26:22.880
No, no, the characters are 3D.

00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:26.820
They don't render them the same way they do the Macra.

00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:28.780
Even in a shot where you have the macro and the characters.

00:26:28.780 --> 00:26:29.800
The textures are different.

00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:31.540
They're very different.

00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:33.180
Yeah, they're very different.

00:26:33.340 --> 00:26:36.680
The macro almost pop off the screen when they're in it.

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.840
At least, you know, particularly the scenes where they're crawling in and crawling out.

00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.740
You're just like, yeah, that's just like they used a completely different animation tool.

00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:49.040
They put that one in the computer and said, render that up and just draw me a moving crab.

00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:50.680
And as opposed to.

00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:53.800
I don't think it's as big a difference to that.

00:26:53.800 --> 00:26:56.840
I just think that it's a different texture.

00:26:57.760 --> 00:27:04.260
but I think they look good and here's and here's the thing in where I stand on this I am in

00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:09.420
principle in favor of doing stuff with the animation you wouldn't otherwise be able to do

00:27:09.560 --> 00:27:16.440
I thought Reign of Terror should be more anime and I am quite happy with the idea that you you

00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:22.140
know you do you do things with this that allow you to take advantage of possibilities that just

00:27:22.080 --> 00:27:29.840
wouldn't have been there I'm almost almost willing to accept having it in colour in principle at

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:37.940
least but the problem that I think that we have with the Macra Terra animation and I think it is

00:27:38.150 --> 00:27:43.640
a it's a serious problem in the sense that at least for me it was a serious problem in that

00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:49.119
it was distracting me from the story while I was watching it is that the choices that they have made

00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:56.660
in terms of things that they can do are now quite considerably at odds with what we are hearing

00:27:57.220 --> 00:28:01.720
on the soundtrack and that ultimately is the limitation they have to they have to use the

00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:07.200
original soundtrack because that that's what survives and what they show us on screen has in

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:12.999
some way to match up with that so there's a couple of examples to indicate what there's a very simple

00:28:13.020 --> 00:28:20.260
one um there's a scene where the doctor is in episode three is i think i know what senior as

00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:26.900
as modern detectives like to do writes on a glass screen oh yeah exactly how you'd shoot it's exactly

00:28:27.060 --> 00:28:34.920
how you'd shoot it in a in you know a kind of 20 teens type slick tv series i look at that and i

00:28:35.060 --> 00:28:41.219
think i will bet you any money you like that is not what they did in the 60s no it's a chalkboard

00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:42.020
You can hear the chalk

00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.240
You can hear his chalk, exactly

00:28:45.320 --> 00:28:46.200
So you have

00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:48.540
You have this dissonance

00:28:49.340 --> 00:28:50.960
Between what they want to do

00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:52.180
With the fancy visuals

00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:54.740
And what they have available to them with the audio

00:28:54.840 --> 00:28:56.660
It's really really simple

00:28:56.800 --> 00:28:58.560
When it came up I just thought

00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.220
That is the perfect example

00:29:00.530 --> 00:29:02.060
Of what has been bugging me here

00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.500
Because it's a total mismatch

00:29:04.620 --> 00:29:05.980
What I thought was odd

00:29:06.380 --> 00:29:07.900
My reaction to that scene was yes

00:29:08.090 --> 00:29:10.439
I clocked that it was chalk

00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:18.040
it's obviously chalk and when i saw the lucite board it's like yeah they didn't have that i i

00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:22.300
just i know automatically they didn't have that not saying they didn't have lucite boards but i

00:29:22.300 --> 00:29:27.720
just you know i know that that wasn't what we had on the screen and then you hear the chalk and you

00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:32.460
go that's definitely not but you know what really impresses me about that is that when you hear the

00:29:32.620 --> 00:29:39.720
chalk he's writing on the board they match those animations up extremely well you you can tell the

00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:44.860
sounds of chalk you know like when you hear you hear you can hear a curve or you can hear a squiggly

00:29:45.280 --> 00:29:51.020
when someone is writing with chalk right you can hear that that's a straight line and that's a

00:29:51.050 --> 00:29:56.360
yeah you know and they match those up pretty well i mean it is kind of gibberish what he's writing

00:29:56.460 --> 00:30:00.800
on the screen but at the same time they did a really good job of it and i thought they were

00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:06.319
it's a weird weird how well they're paying attention to that detail when they're doing it

00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:14.220
They could have done something like turn that shot on the side so that you couldn't see what the doctor was writing at the moment he was scribbling.

00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:18.140
But instead, they kept you there the whole time through the board.

00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:19.720
So I thought that was...

00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:25.920
Which may be why they wanted to shoot it in that way, because you get to see his face and you get to see what they're writing.

00:30:26.360 --> 00:30:31.600
And I guess it's a fairly easy thing to do in modern computer animation.

00:30:31.840 --> 00:30:37.020
so probably would have been really easy for them to uh to replace those sounds with the sounds of

00:30:37.020 --> 00:30:43.700
a marker too but then where do you well exactly where do you where do you change so where do you

00:30:43.700 --> 00:30:49.580
draw the line well so here's so here's another example this this is this is um this is not

00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:56.600
well no okay i'll i'll come back i'll see if you come to my my example i want sorry i'll see if you

00:30:56.500 --> 00:31:02.220
come to my example that i have one that bugged me i've got one other example of the dissonance

00:31:02.330 --> 00:31:09.000
issue which is that the so what so this idea that you can do things with the animation that you

00:31:09.220 --> 00:31:16.740
couldn't have done in the studio the the sequence at the end of episode two where the macro attacks

00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:24.259
polly or towards the end of episode two it grabs her boot in its claw and picks her up and hangs

00:31:24.280 --> 00:31:30.940
are upside down yeah it turns out that stunt animated characters are really cheap yeah because

00:31:30.950 --> 00:31:36.220
you can just turn the one you've got upside down and you know there's no there are no health and

00:31:36.300 --> 00:31:45.220
safety issues and none of that problem okay that's that's kind of okay but it it it's does that quite

00:31:45.430 --> 00:31:51.520
does that that almost matches with the sound she's like help help ben it's got my boot yep it's got

00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:57.480
her boot yeah that's sort of right but then you've got ben rather unconvincingly hacking at the

00:31:57.780 --> 00:32:01.840
macra's legs the macra's legs don't react because obviously animating that would be incredibly

00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:08.820
difficult the macro then does back off it's not clear why because it hasn't been you know the

00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:14.959
attack but ben's assault and it wasn't particularly convincing but okay it does back off polly and ben

00:32:15.140 --> 00:32:21.700
then stand holding each other exactly where they were with the macro just backing off.

00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:28.740
Polly says, let's go inside, but they don't unless I've missed something there because it looks to me

00:32:28.900 --> 00:32:33.120
like the background is exactly the same in the subsequent shot as the previous one.

00:32:33.350 --> 00:32:40.120
And then the macro reappears. The logic is all shot to bits. It's like their reaction should be

00:32:40.210 --> 00:32:44.940
to run away. Even if the macro is backing off, they should run away, which of course they do

00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:50.900
in the original and it is there on the audio and then the macro appear from a different direction

00:32:51.170 --> 00:32:56.220
and there is some more logic to it but because that kind of chase sequence all the all the kind

00:32:56.220 --> 00:33:02.160
of general movement of body movement of the of the characters is not a strength of these animations

00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.980
because that stuff is difficult to see they don't do that and so you're left with the pacing from

00:33:08.010 --> 00:33:12.919
the audio where there was this running around but scenes that have become incredibly static

00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:16.580
with them just sort of standing still.

00:33:16.910 --> 00:33:18.400
And if you watch the scene,

00:33:19.410 --> 00:33:22.600
because it's part of what is in the surviving footage,

00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:24.500
although, as you say,

00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:29.240
the Macra in the original may not be as slick and beautiful

00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:31.120
as the animated ones,

00:33:31.460 --> 00:33:34.540
the effect is vastly, vastly more convincing.

00:33:34.850 --> 00:33:38.640
So to see the Macra with its claws curled around Polly

00:33:39.060 --> 00:33:40.720
and her boot trapped

00:33:41.080 --> 00:33:43.380
and Ben sort of smashing away at it

00:33:43.420 --> 00:33:46.000
and then managing to kind of pull her out

00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:49.240
because it's not got as strong a hold on her

00:33:49.300 --> 00:33:51.500
as we see in the animation or as clear a hold on her.

00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:53.780
That is much more convincing.

00:33:55.040 --> 00:33:55.920
I've seen that clip.

00:33:56.060 --> 00:33:58.180
I wasn't entirely...

00:33:58.360 --> 00:34:01.360
I wouldn't say either the animated or the original

00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:03.640
were particularly convincing.

00:34:03.740 --> 00:34:06.600
The Macra isn't more convincing.

00:34:06.620 --> 00:34:07.880
No, I mean, even the holding.

00:34:08.080 --> 00:34:13.580
I feel like the holding suffers from the, let's say,

00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:19.340
John Pertwee spearhead from space wrapping the tendril around his body

00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:21.820
and then pretending to be trapped by it look.

00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.720
She doesn't really look trapped by the macra,

00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:28.159
possibly because they don't look very convinced.

00:34:28.520 --> 00:34:29.540
But on the other hand, you're right.

00:34:29.570 --> 00:34:33.000
When he picks her up by the leg, it does look awkwardly wrong, too.

00:34:33.120 --> 00:34:36.460
It would be much more believable if it was dragging her by the leg

00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:42.600
across the ground and she's shouting oh it's got me by the boot and then Ben tries to hit it with

00:34:42.610 --> 00:34:47.580
a stick or something. I think that I think the danger is there you you kind of go into a well

00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:52.600
hey wouldn't it be cool that we can do this with the animation now we can we can have her hanging

00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:59.960
upside down and it might actually serve the soundtrack better given that that's what we've

00:34:59.980 --> 00:35:06.940
got to do something that is less impressive in animation terms but more convincing in selling

00:35:07.080 --> 00:35:13.840
the story so a couple things then one is the scene that got me that when i watched it both times

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:19.260
because i've watched this through twice um that i thought this is not right and that's the scene

00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:27.260
where the doctor is changing the outflow inflow and he hands the keys to polly and he says go

00:35:27.240 --> 00:35:32.680
lock the door and then there's a pause and we see polly go up to the door and look at the lock and

00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:37.780
look at the keys in her hand and look at the lock and then go back to the doctor and go but won't

00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:42.880
they just come through the door anyway go lock the door polly and then she goes back to lock the door

00:35:43.240 --> 00:35:48.160
it's like i'm willing to bet she never left the doctor's side i don't think she walked up to the

00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:52.640
door and looked at the lock and thought maybe i should second guess the doctor at this exact

00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:57.200
moment in time while we're likely to get attacked by guards i'll just go i'll just go check it

00:35:57.220 --> 00:36:02.400
It feels more like it's an inaction moment where she hesitates before going to the door.

00:36:02.650 --> 00:36:06.540
But it makes her look a lot stupider because she goes there and comes back.

00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.760
And that one bugged me.

00:36:08.970 --> 00:36:11.420
So what do you think about the fact we've been lying to our listeners?

00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:15.040
This is not a complete recreation of the Macra Terror.

00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.260
They cut one scene out.

00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:18.840
And it's odd.

00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:25.580
When you put this Blu-ray into your player and start watching it,

00:36:25.710 --> 00:36:28.920
you get a pre-title sequence.

00:36:29.610 --> 00:36:33.240
So there wouldn't have been a pre-title sequence in the 60s.

00:36:33.500 --> 00:36:39.460
What you're getting is the last section from the Moonbase,

00:36:39.720 --> 00:36:41.080
which leads into this story.

00:36:41.580 --> 00:36:46.220
And obviously that has been released on DVD and it's available as real film.

00:36:46.560 --> 00:36:49.600
I kind of think, but also there's a slightly weird choice

00:36:49.650 --> 00:36:51.640
I have no idea why, it's in black and white

00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:53.720
Yes, when I watched it I thought

00:36:53.780 --> 00:36:56.100
What did I pick the wrong version to watch here?

00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:57.140
When it started out?

00:36:57.820 --> 00:36:58.980
I don't know what the hell's going on

00:36:59.100 --> 00:37:00.340
Because if you're going to do it in black and white

00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:03.900
Why don't you just show the film version of it?

00:37:04.160 --> 00:37:06.040
Now I think the reason that it is there

00:37:06.110 --> 00:37:08.980
Is because in episode 1 there are references

00:37:09.260 --> 00:37:11.220
To when we saw the claws on the scanner

00:37:11.380 --> 00:37:14.020
Which they see at the end of the moon base

00:37:14.170 --> 00:37:15.420
To give you a cliffhanger

00:37:15.720 --> 00:37:20.780
to lead into this serial so there's a there's probably that logic for being for it being

00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:26.260
included there but there's something even weirder than that about it which is that because of the

00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:33.020
cut that you're about to allude to there is a massive massive continuity issue in this episode

00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:38.680
good because i didn't see it but okay they they use it tight so go on then what tell us what the

00:37:38.580 --> 00:37:46.580
cut is my understanding is the scene is where after the doctor and the gang have been welcomed

00:37:46.680 --> 00:37:52.520
into the colony and they're allowed to go to the restoration clinics the spas and whatnot they

00:37:53.180 --> 00:37:58.300
attempt some sort of mechanical device to give the doctor a new set of clothes that scene's been

00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:04.960
removed and i and they said oh it's just too much of a problem to do that so we decided to cut it

00:38:04.900 --> 00:38:10.360
out yeah well yes it's it's it's i mean it's slightly it's it's a longish scene and it involves

00:38:10.540 --> 00:38:15.420
slightly more than that it involves the doctor it's it's a machine where the doctor goes in

00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:23.760
and obviously the gag is the doctor is this kind of um rather crumpled scruffy figure he goes into

00:38:23.770 --> 00:38:30.260
this machine and he comes out all smartened up and ben and polly oh this is fantastic and then he

00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:35.440
there's another machine and he says something like what what's this and the pilot said oh no

00:38:35.520 --> 00:38:42.640
don't go into that and but he goes into it uh late he goes into it anyway and he cut he comes out

00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:47.740
and he's been all returned to his normal scruffy self and it's apparently a rough and tumble machine

00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:54.120
um that doesn't create a continuity issue what does create a continuity issue is there is also

00:38:54.520 --> 00:39:00.240
smartening up for polly whose hair gets cut whose hair gets cut okay i knew that she got the cut

00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:04.160
during the episode but and they just chose to make her short-haired because she does not have

00:39:04.160 --> 00:39:09.640
it at the end of moon base which is the discontinuity when you're watching the the the film

00:39:10.160 --> 00:39:15.200
version at the end of moon base of the clip that they decided to reanimate as the pre-title sequence

00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:21.720
yes it is black and white so it matches it being black and white prior to you know the the title

00:39:22.120 --> 00:39:28.619
starting but polly has long hair obviously because she has long hair for the first part of episode

00:39:28.640 --> 00:39:34.400
one of the macro terror and they've just decided that you know that's an extra head we're going to

00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:38.980
have to do for Polly we can't afford to do that we'll just plus we can't afford you know the

00:39:39.240 --> 00:39:47.620
effect of doing a smart version of the Doctor for a one-off gag so they decide to to do her

00:39:47.780 --> 00:39:53.160
short head from the beginning so actually this unnecessary recreation of the pre-title sequence

00:39:53.780 --> 00:39:57.360
which has been faithfully rendered in black and white even though there is a black and white film

00:39:57.380 --> 00:40:03.400
available isn't faithful because she's got short hair what do you think about them leaving a scene

00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:07.740
out i mean it's you're right it's not a terribly important scene it's not important scene for the

00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:13.020
story but we could make a good argument that there are many many many scenes in doctor who stories

00:40:13.460 --> 00:40:18.680
that are not important scenes to the story right i mean you could trim you could trim up a lot of

00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:24.720
stories from seven parts to four if you started yeah taking an editorial cut and going yeah let's

00:40:24.740 --> 00:40:30.220
just not do that scene it doesn't advance the plot and we watched about 35 minute version of

00:40:30.380 --> 00:40:36.580
Marco Polo so yeah you know it can be done I think there is an argument when you were talking about

00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:41.220
that sequence with Polly taking the keys over to the door I think there is an argument for saying

00:40:41.220 --> 00:40:48.440
they should actually trim the audio to fit the animation in some cases now whether they should

00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:54.700
have cut out Polly in the scene I was bellyaching about where she says let's go inside and they don't

00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:59.880
side whether they should cut her saying let's go inside that I may draw a line there I think the

00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:03.300
whole thing maybe should have been handled differently but the principle is yeah I don't

00:41:03.310 --> 00:41:08.100
think there is anything wrong with with cutting it because you're not actually at the end of the day

00:41:08.220 --> 00:41:15.340
you're not recreating the the story that you would have seen because that's impossible and in a way

00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.040
if you're you're going to have to use your imagination for it anyway if you want the best

00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:26.060
cues, the best evidence of what it would have looked like, then you need to watch the reconstructions.

00:41:26.220 --> 00:41:33.660
Well, I gotta say, I will stand with the color version on this. I thought it does not detract

00:41:34.060 --> 00:41:40.540
to me. You could make a film in color, and you can make a film in black and white, and there are

00:41:40.780 --> 00:41:45.660
times, like if you did it today, and you made it in black and white, it would be a stylistic choice,

00:41:46.160 --> 00:41:48.860
but it was not a stylistic choice when they were making Doctor Who.

00:41:49.160 --> 00:41:51.140
It was a economic choice.

00:41:51.540 --> 00:41:53.700
But they were shooting for black and white.

00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:56.120
They were shooting for black and white, but that's gone.

00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.740
We're completely making new visuals here.

00:41:59.260 --> 00:42:03.920
So there is no, since these people are not lit the same way,

00:42:04.080 --> 00:42:07.780
they are not standing the same way, the sets are not necessarily the same,

00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:12.360
I'm going to go with go full color, and I thought it looked really nice.

00:42:12.450 --> 00:42:15.120
And I'll tell you where it looked best was the outdoor scenes.

00:42:15.600 --> 00:42:23.220
I thought the planetary scenes looked really, I mean, far beyond the scope of Doctor Who in the 1960s.

00:42:24.100 --> 00:42:26.680
You look at that and you go, yeah, that's good.

00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:27.920
That's nice.

00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:34.100
That quarry has never looked so good by being replaced.

00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:40.080
Well, because you don't have to draw a quarry and then draw a planetary set into it if you're animating.

00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:43.760
I mean, that is the whole point of, I guess, the argument I've been making.

00:42:44.220 --> 00:42:50.200
And the logical extrapolation from that is I have to accept the colour version of it.

00:42:51.340 --> 00:42:59.320
In a way, so I mean, obviously, there was a colour version of Power of the Daleks, which actually isn't that bad, I have to admit.

00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.100
Oh, I know that hurt. I know that hurt for you to admit that.

00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:13.400
Well, part of the reason is because I'm still not super keen on the black and white version of Power of the Daleks and some of the recolouring they do.

00:43:13.700 --> 00:43:17.960
so i think the color so it's interesting particularly when you get the same animators

00:43:18.200 --> 00:43:23.060
working on different stories and obviously the animation evolves over oh you know that just just

00:43:23.240 --> 00:43:30.760
time and the advance of technology and the kind of honing and practice uh that they that the

00:43:31.240 --> 00:43:35.680
animators get from doing more and more of this changes the quality of it and i think that

00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:42.660
what what they what they have done with this one in terms of the color is actually much better

00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:47.940
than what they did with Power of the Daleks, which was more kind of primary colours.

00:43:48.460 --> 00:43:56.100
And this, I will accept that the prime version of this, the intended version of this, is in colour.

00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.560
And in particular, it's lit for colour.

00:44:00.180 --> 00:44:05.500
One of the best things about this animation is there is just some absolutely stunning lighting.

00:44:05.700 --> 00:44:09.580
It's not just the outdoor scenes, it's the outdoor scenes at night.

00:44:10.200 --> 00:44:14.380
you know, the shadowy scenes where the doctor is meeting...

00:44:15.500 --> 00:44:15.960
Me-doc.

00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:17.220
Me-doc.

00:44:17.650 --> 00:44:17.980
Thank you.

00:44:18.820 --> 00:44:21.720
I thought we had a Skype problem there for a second.

00:44:22.100 --> 00:44:22.240
No.

00:44:23.140 --> 00:44:23.580
He's listening.

00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:25.900
I was like, oh, no, we've lost it.

00:44:26.720 --> 00:44:27.580
A memory problem.

00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:31.900
But, no, I think that stuff looks great.

00:44:32.210 --> 00:44:34.500
And, as I say, the colors are not so bright.

00:44:34.540 --> 00:44:38.320
They are much more muted, you know, dark greens and things.

00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:42.780
And when it, because the Wheel in Space sequence is colour only,

00:44:43.040 --> 00:44:45.660
and that, you know, that's kind of almost monochrome,

00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.340
but sort of with the blues and the occasional splash of colour here and there.

00:44:50.640 --> 00:44:52.620
It's pretty good. It's pretty good.

00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:54.820
But the black and white version is better.

00:44:55.420 --> 00:44:56.400
That's not a question of principle.

00:44:56.660 --> 00:44:57.880
It's just, it looks better.

00:44:58.300 --> 00:45:02.280
It's because not only has the colour improved since Power of the Daleks,

00:45:02.500 --> 00:45:06.380
but also, and I think this might be partly because they've animated it for colour,

00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:09.820
they've got a lot of the tones in black and white better.

00:45:10.190 --> 00:45:12.080
So it's not quite as contrasty.

00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.060
And although they've lit for colour,

00:45:15.580 --> 00:45:19.640
those lit scenes, maybe some of them do actually look better in colour than black and white,

00:45:19.740 --> 00:45:21.520
they still look stunning in black and white.

00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:24.820
And all the interior scenes do look better in black and white.

00:45:25.180 --> 00:45:27.740
And this is obviously just a personal thing,

00:45:27.770 --> 00:45:29.380
and I'm just making a qualitative judgment,

00:45:29.720 --> 00:45:32.320
but I like the black and white version better,

00:45:32.540 --> 00:45:43.300
And I find it easier to fit it in, you know, in my head with the soundtrack and the, you know, knowing this is Troughton plus Ben, Polly and Jamie.

00:45:43.650 --> 00:45:50.700
I find it just, it feels more, I can sort of more relax into it and forget that I'm watching an animation.

00:45:51.220 --> 00:45:55.640
I haven't watched the black and white version, so I can't comment on it.

00:45:55.800 --> 00:46:00.200
I am probably predisposed to not think that's going to be true.

00:46:01.100 --> 00:46:05.360
Well, I was presupposed to thinking the black and white version would be streets ahead.

00:46:05.660 --> 00:46:07.580
So I certainly have a bias toward black and white.

00:46:07.630 --> 00:46:13.380
I think you will probably, therefore, if you don't have that bias, you will probably, therefore, prefer the colour.

00:46:13.600 --> 00:46:15.120
I mean, most people, I think, will prefer the colour.

00:46:15.620 --> 00:46:17.380
I wanted to watch the whole thing in black and white.

00:46:17.510 --> 00:46:17.960
I didn't.

00:46:18.240 --> 00:46:20.460
I only watched an episode in black and white.

00:46:20.510 --> 00:46:21.680
So I've only got that comparison.

00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:23.700
Likewise, I wanted to watch the whole thing as a recon.

00:46:24.040 --> 00:46:26.740
I only watched one episode as a recon, or one in a bit.

00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:37.620
But it's a great thing about this package that you have the ability to watch these different versions and make the comparison and choose what you like.

00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:46.680
Speaking of color choices, what did you think of their choice and style for the opening credits?

00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:51.360
So, first of all, have they got the credits wrong?

00:46:51.700 --> 00:46:51.980
Have they?

00:46:53.060 --> 00:46:56.560
Well, did they actually change the credits between Moonbase and Macro Terror?

00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:59.900
why are they not the same credits as there is some point where they well

00:47:00.140 --> 00:47:05.680
macroter well moonbase had the no face version right yeah yeah it had yeah

00:47:06.100 --> 00:47:10.740
somewhere early on they added trouton's face but i don't know where they added

00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.060
it i don't know i just i just assumed the

00:47:13.140 --> 00:47:15.700
whole of season four had the same titles but maybe not

00:47:16.020 --> 00:47:20.280
it surprised me that it had a different title the problem is the others in

00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:23.440
season four are the faceless ones in the evil of daleks

00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:24.820
so we don't know

00:47:25.510 --> 00:47:27.440
I mean they've got episodes of all those

00:47:28.020 --> 00:47:29.900
oh yeah so we could

00:47:30.040 --> 00:47:31.740
look at the surviving episodes which seem to be

00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:32.960
on Lost in Time or something

00:47:34.020 --> 00:47:35.620
we won't have the answer now

00:47:35.670 --> 00:47:37.740
but maybe in the show notes we'll have been able

00:47:37.740 --> 00:47:38.760
to do the homework on that

00:47:38.980 --> 00:47:41.460
I thought maybe what they'd done was because

00:47:41.680 --> 00:47:43.140
they did the titles for

00:47:43.560 --> 00:47:45.660
Wheel in Space which they would

00:47:45.670 --> 00:47:47.220
be the correct titles for

00:47:47.530 --> 00:47:48.400
Wheel in Space yeah

00:47:49.900 --> 00:47:51.859
and then they thought well we'll use them

00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:59.080
for Macro Terror because otherwise we'll have to do a color version of the titles for season four.

00:47:59.680 --> 00:48:00.620
But they have taken...

00:48:00.620 --> 00:48:06.560
You know, I do understand because I do think it was a bit jarring in Power of the Daleks

00:48:06.600 --> 00:48:10.840
to have black and white titles and then a color, you know, going into color.

00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:14.740
But I don't, I still, I just don't like it.

00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:15.080
Sorry.

00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:21.020
I, you know, when we watch the credits roll, because of course I'm, you're watching the,

00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:24.140
you're watching the black and white moon base footage

00:48:24.700 --> 00:48:25.820
when you're watching the color version.

00:48:26.100 --> 00:48:27.440
So like I said, I put it on.

00:48:27.700 --> 00:48:28.580
It was in black and white.

00:48:28.680 --> 00:48:31.320
I'm like, oh, I thought I'd picked the color version.

00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:34.060
Oh, well, I'm not going to stop and go back and pick a different one.

00:48:34.520 --> 00:48:35.400
I'll just watch it through.

00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:41.220
And when the credits roll in and they are in Pertwee vision, basically,

00:48:41.700 --> 00:48:44.820
I think they took the exact style that they did in Pertwee

00:48:44.860 --> 00:48:47.680
with the circles of color and just overlaid them over the static.

00:48:48.520 --> 00:48:50.020
And I thought it worked really well.

00:48:50.080 --> 00:48:54.800
I mean, for trying to figure out what you would do,

00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:00.220
because there's no frame of reference for what they were going to do to that.

00:49:00.540 --> 00:49:03.820
Are they going to individually animate all the different bubbles?

00:49:04.680 --> 00:49:05.240
And they weren't.

00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:08.480
And they go, oh, they did exactly the same cheat they did on Pertwee,

00:49:08.520 --> 00:49:12.680
because Pertwee's credits are black and white, shot through gels.

00:49:13.220 --> 00:49:14.300
That's how they did it.

00:49:14.600 --> 00:49:25.440
It's black and white feedback, but they overlaid some color gels to that to get the color howl around stuff that they did.

00:49:25.470 --> 00:49:30.960
So I thought, clever idea to just, well, that's what they did back then, so let's do that.

00:49:31.220 --> 00:49:32.720
I thought they looked quite good.

00:49:32.810 --> 00:49:40.120
I mean, if you're going to have color credits, I thought they did a bang-up job of coming as close as they could to what they would have done at that time.

00:49:40.340 --> 00:49:48.040
Yeah, yes. But therein lies the kind of philosophical confusion underpinning what they are doing.

00:49:48.540 --> 00:49:56.140
Because as we have discussed, there are shots in the actual episode that are nothing like what they could have done at the time.

00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:56.580
Correct.

00:49:56.790 --> 00:50:04.920
So they could have done something completely different with these credits that would have been beyond the technological capability if they were doing them in colour.

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:08.060
Now, they have taken the credits as they were.

00:50:08.240 --> 00:50:10.300
They've taken the black and white credits and they've made them in.

00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:13.580
They've stretched them for widescreen because the whole thing's in widescreen.

00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:17.220
And then they've, you know, having done a remaster on them.

00:50:17.520 --> 00:50:25.740
And then they've done this colourisation, which I agree with you, I think, is influenced by the way Pertwee was done and therefore matches what could have happened at
the time.

00:50:26.080 --> 00:50:31.260
But it's created something for me there because that certainly was shot for black and white.

00:50:31.540 --> 00:50:40.540
And it's created something for me that is maybe the uncanny valley of colourised black and white credits because it's too close to the Pertwee version.

00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:48.600
And there's something simple and beautiful about the black and white Troughton face credits.

00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:50.120
I like them a lot.

00:50:50.700 --> 00:50:58.060
The version of the credits that you have, it's crisper than the earlier ones with Troughton's face and all the rest of it.

00:50:58.200 --> 00:51:00.620
And I really like the Pertwee ones as well.

00:51:00.980 --> 00:51:06.920
but they are different. And this is a bit of a horrible mishmash in my view. That's harsh. I

00:51:07.380 --> 00:51:13.740
agree with you. They do look pretty good. And if you judge them on their own, I think you would

00:51:14.120 --> 00:51:18.140
regard them favorably. But because I'm comparing them to both of these others, I'm feeling like

00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:24.100
it's neither fish nor fowl. Okay, let me ask a completely tangential question. And I realize

00:51:24.180 --> 00:51:29.659
that this has nothing... We've already had the sort of... We've already had the debate, and rightly

00:51:29.680 --> 00:51:33.780
so. They were shooting in black and white. So therefore, when they were making these,

00:51:34.230 --> 00:51:39.180
they were lighting for black and white. They were costuming for black and white. They were doing set

00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:44.580
design for black and white. All that stuff, those are artistic decisions that had to be made with

00:51:44.680 --> 00:51:49.480
the technical knowledge of the limitations of the medium that they were working in. So, you know,

00:51:49.750 --> 00:51:57.540
I do get why when somebody comes along and tries to colorize an old black and white movie or a TV

00:51:57.560 --> 00:52:03.920
show why there is a bit of an outrage. And a lot of the times the outrage comes about because how

00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:10.500
bad of a job they do. Because I can still remember seeing some shots of, you know, Basil Rathbone

00:52:10.620 --> 00:52:16.220
and Nigel Bruth where their hair was flesh tone in places. And just like, wow, you guys just,

00:52:16.620 --> 00:52:22.940
you just missed that by a mile. But let me ask this question. Because in the last few years,

00:52:23.380 --> 00:52:26.440
if you keep up with this completely trivial bit of information,

00:52:27.260 --> 00:52:31.200
scientists, archaeologists have, or paleontologists, let's get that right,

00:52:31.660 --> 00:52:38.980
have begun to find ways to analyze fossil data, certain fossil structures,

00:52:39.460 --> 00:52:43.440
and get color information out of it by looking at pigmentation and whatnot.

00:52:44.040 --> 00:52:49.440
And we know that with computer technology and with the electronic technology that they had,

00:52:49.720 --> 00:52:59.740
It's not inconceivable that at some point in the future, a computer could look at a black and white recording and actually draw back the original color as shot.

00:53:00.040 --> 00:53:01.720
I think that will happen quite soon.

00:53:02.100 --> 00:53:04.220
I think that's a real possibility.

00:53:04.740 --> 00:53:05.700
What's your thought on that?

00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:07.420
I know that's very tangential.

00:53:08.580 --> 00:53:16.160
Well, my thought is that, as you say, what that will do is it will recreate the color version.

00:53:16.580 --> 00:53:18.200
It will recreate the real color.

00:53:18.820 --> 00:53:21.300
the colour that was being shot on black and white film,

00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:24.160
the colour that would have been viewed by you

00:53:24.200 --> 00:53:27.060
if you were standing where the camera is in that studio.

00:53:27.600 --> 00:53:30.860
But what you'd have been looking at would have been colours

00:53:31.220 --> 00:53:36.660
that were chosen for creating an effect in black and white on the screen.

00:53:37.700 --> 00:53:41.320
So to me, it certainly would have a kind of,

00:53:41.540 --> 00:53:44.240
it would be incredibly interesting, you know,

00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:48.560
just from the curiosity value, it would be well, well, well seen.

00:53:48.660 --> 00:53:52.860
so I'm kind of looking forward to it from that point of view.

00:53:53.600 --> 00:53:55.720
Artistically I don't really have any interest in it

00:53:55.940 --> 00:53:58.200
because I don't see anything wrong with black and white

00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:00.720
and if that's what they were creating then fine.

00:54:00.940 --> 00:54:03.980
I think the reason why I do not like colourisation

00:54:04.040 --> 00:54:05.000
not because they're bad

00:54:05.080 --> 00:54:08.640
but just because I don't see what is wrong with black and white

00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:11.000
that somehow it is seen as being inferior

00:54:11.640 --> 00:54:16.259
and in some ways that's the opposite of the truth

00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:26.780
But because there's a market for color and black and white somehow puts people off, they colorize in order to try and broaden the audience.

00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:30.660
Is it a bad thing if you can broaden an audience, though?

00:54:31.240 --> 00:54:32.760
Well, if you get more people watching.

00:54:33.200 --> 00:54:34.380
If you make the thing worse.

00:54:35.130 --> 00:54:36.760
So give me the black and white is what I'm saying.

00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:41.260
Give me my quality black and white over just color for color's sake.

00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:44.200
I mean, I would happily watch some Acro Terror in color.

00:54:44.260 --> 00:54:51.520
I probably would still, I mean, by choice, I'd go for black and white, but it would be almost a coin toss.

00:54:51.820 --> 00:54:53.400
Power of the Daleks, I'd watch in black and white.

00:54:54.060 --> 00:55:01.300
Okay, so looking at the list, before we go on, assuming that they've already got, you know, models or artwork done up,

00:55:01.700 --> 00:55:02.840
so they're sticking with Troughton.

00:55:03.200 --> 00:55:07.800
The only thing that's completely missing is the Highlanders and the Fury from the Deep,

00:55:08.720 --> 00:55:12.820
which, you know, completely all episodes missing in the Troughton era.

00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:18.220
in the Troughton era that's right Fury from the Deep is six episodes I can still kind of see them

00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:22.300
doing that before the Highlanders although the Highlanders they'd have all the characters

00:55:22.640 --> 00:55:27.100
animated including Ben and Polly and they wouldn't from Fury in the Deep no maybe they would when do

00:55:27.100 --> 00:55:32.540
we leave yeah yeah that's that's Victoria okay if you if you want to get into speculation I have an

00:55:32.620 --> 00:55:37.859
observation which is that it's kind of observation just in terms of the quality of the the animation

00:55:38.499 --> 00:55:45.580
itself you know just in its own terms which it which is that um i think there has been an advance

00:55:46.300 --> 00:55:53.240
since power of the daleks in in it um well i mean it's sort of but yeah i mean i i i'm still going

00:55:53.260 --> 00:55:58.000
to say it's not up to the standards of the invasion but it's different it's similar to

00:55:58.050 --> 00:56:04.700
power of the daleks because we're looking at the same people doing it and since then i think um

00:56:04.720 --> 00:56:10.360
the animation has improved in terms of particularly the the kind of facial expression and such the

00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:18.800
body movement has always been slightly um yeah still did weird yeah um but but i think what is

00:56:19.080 --> 00:56:26.080
interesting about it is that that is most noticeable in trouton it's like they i don't

00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:32.200
know if it's a different model but it whatever they've they've improved the rigging and he now

00:56:32.220 --> 00:56:38.320
has quite a large expressive range and he does look different though you know the drawing is

00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:43.900
slightly different though there have been some revisions made conversely i actually think ben

00:56:43.900 --> 00:56:49.500
and polly are slightly they they look a bit different and obviously polly has different

00:56:49.570 --> 00:56:57.900
hair and stuff but they look to me less expressive than are of the daleks and jamie looks more

00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:04.100
expressive than they do like there has been more effort put into rigging the jamie and the doctor

00:57:04.560 --> 00:57:09.560
which brings me to my speculation yeah which is are we getting another are they putting more

00:57:09.620 --> 00:57:15.160
effort in there are we getting another story that involves both jamie and the doctor and so that

00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:20.020
made me think oh maybe it is wheel in space after all because they've done the first 10 minutes

00:57:20.440 --> 00:57:26.760
and that and that's that's my hopeful fan conspiracy theory approach and the kind of

00:57:26.720 --> 00:57:31.180
then the realist in me goes oh hang on a minute the reason that jamie and the doctor might be

00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:36.600
better is because they put a lot of effort into doing those 10 minutes of of within space and

00:57:36.610 --> 00:57:41.740
they look very good in that they look as good in that as as the macro terror so they already had

00:57:41.900 --> 00:57:46.640
that and we're we're still you know we're still in a situation in animation terms because i i do

00:57:46.780 --> 00:57:53.640
make this comparison to the the invasion which is kind of unfair because they're doing four episodes

00:57:53.980 --> 00:57:59.740
instead of just two so and you know with power it was six so the budget has to stretch two or

00:57:59.830 --> 00:58:07.420
three times as far as it as it as it did for for um the invasion yeah and assuming they have the

00:58:07.420 --> 00:58:12.240
same budget which i doubt that they did i think they put more in well we know yeah the invasion

00:58:12.460 --> 00:58:18.940
had a lot of money and it shows but then the subsequent ones there was quite a lot of variation

00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:24.380
between animation houses. I liked the Planet 55 ones, so Reign of Terror and the Moonbase

00:58:24.880 --> 00:58:30.120
looked very good to me. It's partly, I think, a stylistic decision, but I also think it has to do

00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:34.940
with the fact that the better animations in this series, because the animation in The Invasion is

00:58:35.020 --> 00:58:40.440
in many ways quite crude. I mean, for a start, it's 2D, so you only ever see full-profile,

00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:48.380
full-on or three-quarters shots, but the whole thing is cut and edited in a way that makes

00:58:48.740 --> 00:58:54.660
that kind of hides the weaknesses with that whereas there are a lot of scenes in macro for

00:58:54.920 --> 00:59:01.820
example where you do see these kind of quite long distance shots of people walking and it's painful

00:59:02.020 --> 00:59:06.360
or jamie running through corridors and you think there must have been another way to shoot that

00:59:06.610 --> 00:59:13.300
or the worst one jamie unlocking a door and you think god why why are we seeing seconds of this

00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:18.900
on screen when he's he's barely even able to turn his hands let alone adjust the position of the key

00:59:19.060 --> 00:59:27.060
in the lock yeah there is that it it's it's it's pretty tedious to watch and so i think in in some

00:59:27.200 --> 00:59:33.320
ways the the the real strength of the of the best animators in this is the ability is the kind of

00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:38.660
self-awareness to know what they're good at and what they're not and to make sure that they don't

00:59:38.680 --> 00:59:44.060
do the things they're not good at fair enough i will just add one thing the faces of the majorettes

00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:50.440
in the parade yeah terrifying terrifying so i mean i know they're all kind of zombie-like people

00:59:50.550 --> 00:59:55.420
but at least the people in the crowds kind of had facial movement but they had nothing they were

00:59:55.560 --> 01:00:04.520
just flat terrifying dead soulless and that's a pretty early scene in the in the episode the

01:00:04.540 --> 01:00:09.400
first shot of them coming forward and raising the arm i'm like oh please it's got to be better than

01:00:09.540 --> 01:00:20.640
this because anyway it's it's important to to set up your expectations like um i slight tangent but

01:00:20.700 --> 01:00:25.700
it it's it's related i was listening to to david tenner interview michael sheen who's obviously

01:00:25.810 --> 01:00:32.320
done a number of films where he has been other people like tony blair or brian clough or whoever

01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:38.220
and he was talking about the whole business of imitating someone else because obviously that's

01:00:38.220 --> 01:00:42.160
not what he's doing he's doing he's giving a performance he's not trying to be an imitator

01:00:42.580 --> 01:00:47.880
but it's in relation to someone who the audience is going to be familiar with so how do you get

01:00:48.020 --> 01:00:53.520
them to accept you as that person and his his thing about it was you don't have to be that

01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:59.580
person but you have to make you have to put your audience at ease straight away with how different

01:00:59.580 --> 01:01:04.340
you are so they can get over that and then get into the story and I kind of think there is

01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:10.420
something for the animators in this which is that they need to set up the expectations of the

01:01:10.620 --> 01:01:17.540
audience about how much animation there will be in the story so how much you know facial movement

01:01:17.720 --> 01:01:22.800
there will be or whatever in in each character and how much because we're going to have to do

01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:27.800
some of the work here how much of that work we are going to have to do with our own imaginations

01:01:27.940 --> 01:01:38.100
And I think in particular, again, it's a weakness of this one and Power of the Daleks is that the animation, because they're using both 3D and 2D techniques in it, it is
quite mixed.

01:01:38.560 --> 01:01:47.300
And it creates, you know, that scene you mentioned with the majorettes, it's very different looking at their faces than it is looking at Troughton's face.

01:01:47.460 --> 01:01:48.380
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:01:49.060 --> 01:01:55.100
You've got to somehow adjust to that because if you just look at Troughton's face, you think, well, that's what people look like.

01:01:55.260 --> 01:01:59.280
you know i mean obviously he's the the main character but from a viewer's point of view

01:01:59.650 --> 01:02:03.220
you don't think in terms of well he's the main character therefore he's had money spent on

01:02:03.330 --> 01:02:09.500
making his face move it's just like he's a person and or you do yeah if you had a load of extras in

01:02:09.500 --> 01:02:12.860
the scene they would look like they might not be the best actors or whatever but they would

01:02:13.140 --> 01:02:17.320
for the time they were on scene they would look look like people and their faces would

01:02:17.680 --> 01:02:22.680
look like real faces and that's the problem with the majorette scene there is there is a guy um

01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:27.000
He's, I can't tell you what scene he's in and I can't tell you what his name is.

01:02:27.560 --> 01:02:31.800
He's kind of like he may have been an actor of Asian descent.

01:02:34.180 --> 01:02:37.960
And it's like, I think that really is modeled off the real actor.

01:02:38.420 --> 01:02:42.140
Because that looks like an actor I've seen in bit parts in British television.

01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:44.560
But I didn't catch the name on it.

01:02:44.720 --> 01:02:45.640
But I wonder.

01:02:45.660 --> 01:02:50.740
I mean, the pilot wasn't drawn well enough for me to go when I watched it.

01:02:51.060 --> 01:02:51.980
That's Peter Jeffery.

01:02:52.140 --> 01:02:55.280
Obviously, as soon as I saw the recon, I was like, oh, that's Peter Jeffrey.

01:02:55.760 --> 01:03:02.180
And then when I watched episode two in animation, I could see, oh, they've drawn Peter Jeffrey, but not well enough for me to recognize it.

01:03:02.370 --> 01:03:04.380
So I think they were doing that to some extent.

01:03:04.490 --> 01:03:06.420
They weren't just making up the characters from scratch.

01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:10.200
OK. I, you know, I figured they would do that with the main characters.

01:03:10.350 --> 01:03:16.740
But when they got to the secondary ones, I didn't know whether they would even have pictures, you know, of all the people that were standing on scenes.

01:03:17.040 --> 01:03:19.080
Yeah. If it's an extra in a scene.

01:03:19.680 --> 01:03:21.240
He had a couple of lines, but that was it.

01:03:21.620 --> 01:03:24.620
And he was in the crowd scene at the end, not talking.

01:03:24.700 --> 01:03:28.380
But then that's just because they were reusing people they had previously animated.

01:03:28.640 --> 01:03:30.120
But, yeah.

01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:31.060
All right.

01:03:31.120 --> 01:03:34.120
Well, I think that's pretty much all we've got on the Macra Terror.

01:03:35.220 --> 01:03:39.480
When it comes out in the United States for people in the U.S., buy it.

01:03:39.740 --> 01:03:40.040
Absolutely.

01:03:40.040 --> 01:03:40.560
Go buy it.

01:03:40.860 --> 01:03:41.200
Buy it.

01:03:41.520 --> 01:03:42.600
Convince them to make more.

01:03:42.720 --> 01:03:43.840
We want Fury of the Deep.

01:03:46.700 --> 01:03:47.820
Well, I want Fury of the Deep.

01:03:48.060 --> 01:03:49.420
Anyway, somebody wants Fury of the Deep.

01:03:49.480 --> 01:03:50.340
I want Fury of the Deep.

01:03:50.420 --> 01:03:53.900
I want all the episodes filled in in animation.

01:03:54.720 --> 01:03:56.740
And I will not rest until they've done that.

01:03:56.960 --> 01:03:59.060
I will keep complaining until such time.

01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:01.060
Simon, thank you for joining me.

01:04:01.420 --> 01:04:02.300
It's a pleasure, as always.

01:04:02.680 --> 01:04:05.080
And listeners, I hope you get the chance to join us again

01:04:05.500 --> 01:04:07.680
for another animated Doctor Who episode.

01:04:08.720 --> 01:04:09.040
Absolutely.

01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:09.520
Soon.

01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:14.000
But otherwise, please join us again next time on Fusion Patrol.

01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:23.000
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01:04:23.710 --> 01:04:31.120
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01:04:33.020 --> 01:04:35.760
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01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:40.560
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01:04:41.820 --> 01:04:44.940
Our music is Fight the Future by Amber Wolf.

01:04:46.380 --> 01:04:48.820
This has been a Lone Locust production.

01:04:55.420 --> 01:04:57.160
Ben regains his sentences.

01:04:57.710 --> 01:04:58.200
His sentences.

01:04:59.780 --> 01:05:02.360
I don't have my sentences, but Ben's got his.