WEBVTT 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:16.100 We take a single episode of a science fiction TV series and overanalyze it to within an 00:00:16.299 --> 00:00:17.200 inch of its life. 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:19.440 This is the Fusion Patrol Podcast. 00:00:20.260 --> 00:00:21.280 Welcome to the discussion. 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:32.560 Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. I'm Eugene. 00:00:33.180 --> 00:00:33.760 And I'm Simon. 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:47.300 And tonight we are looking once more again into the breach do we go to look at the notorious, the infamous, the one, the only, and actually not the one and only, it's like in every form ever known, 00:00:47.980 --> 00:00:54.820 Shada, Douglas Adams' unfinished legendary episode of Doctor Who. 00:00:55.400 --> 00:00:58.040 Repeatedly finished again and again episode. 00:00:59.040 --> 00:01:01.840 Shada, this time the animated version with Tom Baker. 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:07.640 Aboard a space station, something sinister involving people and a ball has happened. 00:01:08.020 --> 00:01:11.140 The sinister Skagra leaves with his ball. 00:01:11.500 --> 00:01:16.919 Meanwhile, at Cambridge, a researcher named Chris Parsons stops in at the rooms of Professor Cronotus 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:22.340 to borrow some books. Unbeknownst to him, he borrows a mysterious book from Cronotus's library. 00:01:22.820 --> 00:01:27.080 Meanwhile, the Doctor and Romana have come to Cambridge to visit Cronotus, who is a retired 00:01:27.380 --> 00:01:32.560 Time Lord friend of the Doctor's, who's been living at Cambridge for the last three centuries. 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:37.840 He called the Doctor to get him to return a book to Gallifrey, the worshipful and ancient law of 00:01:37.940 --> 00:01:44.119 Gallifrey, one of the relics from Rassilon's time. Skagra wants that book too. And by what seems to 00:01:44.140 --> 00:01:49.460 be the most tortured of coincidences, the Doctor and Romana have turned up on the same day as Skagra, 00:01:49.620 --> 00:01:54.560 which also happens to be the day when Chris Parsons inadvertently borrowed the book, which 00:01:54.560 --> 00:02:01.060 has just been fine for the last three centuries. Skagra kills Cronotus by sucking his mind dry 00:02:01.490 --> 00:02:06.540 into the sphere. Comedy ensues as bicycles are ridden around Cambridge, while the Doctor pursues 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:12.219 Chris and the book, and Skagra pursues the Doctor and the book. Meanwhile, Claire, a colleague of 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:17.480 Chris's, gets drawn into the mystery when Chris attempts to analyze the book and discovers it has 00:02:17.600 --> 00:02:24.380 some very, very weird properties. Skagra gets the book and imprisons the Doctor Romana K-9 and Chris 00:02:24.600 --> 00:02:30.480 Parsons aboard his invisible spaceship. Skagra sucks the Doctor's mind dry and learns that the 00:02:30.760 --> 00:02:35.620 Doctor didn't know what the book meant anyway, so he forces Romana to use the TARDIS to take him to 00:02:35.620 --> 00:02:41.079 his command ship. The Doctor, like Kronotus, has been killed by the Sphere. Unlike Kronotus, the 00:02:41.100 --> 00:02:46.440 doctor really isn't dead. He defeated the mind drain by using one of his time-honored strategies, 00:02:47.020 --> 00:02:52.700 pretending to be stupid. The ship's computer knows the doctor to be dead. The doctor uses this to 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:59.480 argue logically that since he was an enemy of Skagra, but now he's dead, he must therefore be 00:02:59.570 --> 00:03:06.939 an ex-enemy of Skagra. An ex-enemy is not a threat, and therefore anything he asks of the computer 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:12.760 cannot possibly be a threat to Skagra. The computer accepts this and cooperates with the doctor. 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:19.780 Sans TARDIS, the doctor uses the ship to go in pursuit. Meanwhile, Claire, not knowing that 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:25.540 Cronotus is dead, is waiting for him to return to his rooms. She accidentally launches his rooms 00:03:25.820 --> 00:03:31.660 into the time vortex, for you see Cronotus's rooms are a TARDIS. Cronotus, now no longer dead, 00:03:32.100 --> 00:03:37.120 then shows up and, demonstrating some very atypical Time Lord powers, 00:03:37.640 --> 00:03:41.140 works with Claire to get his TARDIS more operational. 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:44.320 The Doctor has returned to the point where Skagra came to Earth from. 00:03:44.700 --> 00:03:47.860 It is a think tank, the Institute for Advanced Science Studies. 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:53.180 He finds the now much, much older wizened and mindless scientists 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.660 that Skagra nefariously did things to at the beginning of the episode. 00:03:57.060 --> 00:03:58.180 He stole their minds, too. 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:00.420 They were the greatest minds in the galaxy. 00:04:00.980 --> 00:04:04.980 The sphere, it turns out, is a device for collecting minds. 00:04:05.540 --> 00:04:07.340 Skagra has taken Ramanite's command ship, 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:12.180 where he wastes a lot of time not really explaining his nefarious plot 00:04:12.230 --> 00:04:13.800 to become the entire universe, 00:04:14.620 --> 00:04:18.660 but first he must find the forgotten Time Lord prison planet Shada, 00:04:18.970 --> 00:04:20.880 to which the book is the key. 00:04:21.299 --> 00:04:24.820 On Shada is the most infamous of Time Lord criminals, 00:04:25.440 --> 00:04:28.940 Sally Aven, a Time Lord with an atypical gift. 00:04:29.320 --> 00:04:32.280 the ability to project his mind into others, 00:04:32.880 --> 00:04:37.560 just like Cronotus did earlier when nobody but Claire was looking. 00:04:37.900 --> 00:04:41.060 The Doctor and Chris track him down, as does Cronotus and Claire. 00:04:41.500 --> 00:04:43.900 Things go awry, and Skagra gets to Shada, 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:45.980 discovers that Saliavan is missing, 00:04:46.250 --> 00:04:48.240 then discovers that Cronotus is Saliavan, 00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:52.420 and with Saliavan's mind in the sphere now again, 00:04:53.140 --> 00:04:56.100 actually, since he'd already mind-sucked Cronotus earlier, 00:04:56.540 --> 00:04:58.480 who had been Saliavan all along, 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:04.540 Skagra has the ability to project his mind into every living organism in the universe. 00:05:05.080 --> 00:05:07.000 But he's got the Doctor's mind in there, too. 00:05:07.260 --> 00:05:10.940 The Doctor, with the help of a stylish helmet that he whipped up in the TARDIS, 00:05:11.300 --> 00:05:14.560 is able to defeat Skagra and imprison him in his ship. 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:18.420 Cronotus, now alive again once more, 00:05:18.900 --> 00:05:22.420 returns to Cambridge to live out the rest of his retirement in peace. 00:05:23.020 --> 00:05:23.560 The end. 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:28.960 Shada, I greatly debated whether I should go back and listen to our 00:05:29.400 --> 00:05:31.640 previous Shada podcast. 00:05:32.420 --> 00:05:33.580 Episode 211. 00:05:33.900 --> 00:05:35.400 June 1st, 2015. 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:37.540 That's been some time now. 00:05:37.740 --> 00:05:39.680 Almost four years since we've done this. 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:40.160 Yeah. 00:05:40.660 --> 00:05:42.620 And Shada doesn't get better 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:43.680 every time I watch it, 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:44.340 I gotta say. 00:05:46.320 --> 00:05:47.900 And I've watched it at least twice now 00:05:48.140 --> 00:05:50.160 because they also came out with a DVD 00:05:50.840 --> 00:05:52.440 that had everything in it 00:05:52.820 --> 00:05:54.380 and then, I guess, linking narration. 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:56.600 The Tom Baker linking narration. 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:57.500 Yeah, the Tom Baker. 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.120 Yeah, and then they came out with that in DVD. 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:03.740 And then after that, they came out with this animated version. 00:06:04.010 --> 00:06:06.940 Yeah, because that was only about four years ago, if that. 00:06:07.760 --> 00:06:10.940 That may even be where I got the animated version from. 00:06:11.030 --> 00:06:12.940 I think it might be one of the bonus features on it. 00:06:13.110 --> 00:06:13.720 I don't remember. 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:15.380 Ah, you mean, yes. 00:06:15.470 --> 00:06:20.940 You mean what they're now calling Return to Sharda, the eighth Doctor animated Sharda. 00:06:21.260 --> 00:06:23.240 Yeah, which, how animated was that? 00:06:23.430 --> 00:06:24.060 I don't remember. 00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:25.340 I know it was a big finish. 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:26.880 No, I think you're right. 00:06:26.940 --> 00:06:32.220 I think it was included as an extra on that as a flash thing 00:06:32.320 --> 00:06:34.120 if you put it into your computer or something. 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:35.560 Yeah, I think so. 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:36.560 I won't swear to it. 00:06:36.580 --> 00:06:41.600 Whereas, if, and it'll give you a bit of a clue 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.880 as to my attitude towards this particular Sharda release, 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:50.560 that I was wavering over whether to bother getting it at all. 00:06:50.940 --> 00:06:53.000 And the thing that tipped the balance for me 00:06:53.320 --> 00:06:55.920 into getting the Steelbook Blu-ray 00:06:56.200 --> 00:07:04.240 was that it has on one of the discs got a proper version of the animated 8th Doctor Sharda. 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:08.300 So you can pop it in your Blu-ray player and actually watch it. 00:07:08.590 --> 00:07:08.740 Yeah. 00:07:09.580 --> 00:07:09.760 Okay. 00:07:10.220 --> 00:07:10.460 All right. 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:14.280 So I get a feel for your attitude there. 00:07:14.520 --> 00:07:16.340 I think I probably... 00:07:16.340 --> 00:07:16.780 I tell you... 00:07:17.020 --> 00:07:18.520 I mean, well... 00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:20.860 We should describe this animation first, right? 00:07:21.270 --> 00:07:22.900 For our listeners, in case you don't know. 00:07:23.900 --> 00:07:33.280 Let's just quickly do the background because regular listeners who go enough years back will know what we thought of Sharda before. 00:07:33.340 --> 00:07:34.700 And I'm not... 00:07:34.840 --> 00:07:36.800 I don't remember what you thought of Sharda. 00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:39.440 Well, I don't dislike it. 00:07:40.420 --> 00:07:53.440 But between then and now, and that in itself was a couple of different versions because that was staged with a completely new cast, including a new Doctor. 00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:58.060 in a recording made by Big Finish and webcast. 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:02.300 And those are two slightly different versions of it. 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:07.740 And since then, or maybe around then, 00:08:08.460 --> 00:08:11.500 there was also, which we didn't look at 00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:13.720 and didn't review on the podcast 00:08:14.020 --> 00:08:16.040 in a remarkable show of restraint, 00:08:17.260 --> 00:08:21.340 an adaptation of the original Tom Baker version, 00:08:22.200 --> 00:08:23.700 filling in the gaps with animation. 00:08:24.260 --> 00:08:25.000 That sounds familiar. 00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:27.740 Made privately by Ian Levine 00:08:27.940 --> 00:08:30.920 with some of the original members of the cast. 00:08:30.930 --> 00:08:31.840 I forget who. 00:08:31.970 --> 00:08:33.940 Certainly Lala Ward, probably Daniel Hill. 00:08:35.020 --> 00:08:36.840 Maybe it was John Leeson playing K-9. 00:08:36.950 --> 00:08:37.500 I don't know. 00:08:37.770 --> 00:08:39.700 I don't think it involved Tom Baker. 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.960 But it was basically a similar project to this one, 00:08:44.340 --> 00:08:45.960 which I think he offered to the BBC 00:08:46.130 --> 00:08:48.460 and the BBC told him where he could stick it. 00:08:49.660 --> 00:08:51.420 Someone novelised Sharda. 00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:52.780 James Goss, I think. 00:08:53.180 --> 00:08:54.820 Sounds right, I've got that somewhere. 00:08:54.820 --> 00:08:55.640 Gareth Roberts may have been down to do it 00:08:56.510 --> 00:08:58.060 and gave up on the project. 00:08:58.300 --> 00:09:00.640 So there's another version of Gareth Roberts. 00:09:00.900 --> 00:09:03.460 Almost, almost tempted by that. 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:09.920 And then here we have an official BBC attempt 00:09:10.190 --> 00:09:12.740 at that project to take the original footage 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:14.960 and fill in the gaps with animation. 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:17.240 But obviously the gaps themselves, 00:09:18.180 --> 00:09:21.040 they're not like the other Lost Doctor Whos 00:09:21.060 --> 00:09:24.820 that we've looked at where there is an original soundtrack because no soundtrack was already 00:09:24.980 --> 00:09:31.080 recorded with the original cast the the production for those who aren't familiar with it were was 00:09:31.540 --> 00:09:38.020 stood down after strike action disrupted it and they decided not to restage so the missing scenes 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:44.420 and there are many were never recorded in any form and so what we've got on this production 00:09:44.460 --> 00:09:52.100 is a new audio recording with all of the original casting uh minus one or two but yeah who are 00:09:52.300 --> 00:09:59.540 David Brearley oh I see they reused they reused lines from other shows whenever they could because 00:09:59.540 --> 00:10:05.960 I was sure it was David Brearley it was were there any lines from K9 that were not no they just if 00:10:06.020 --> 00:10:11.140 there were any lines that they couldn't find or put together a recording from other stuff they cut 00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:16.760 them right okay that makes sense and i think the actor who played chronotis may have been dead 00:10:16.790 --> 00:10:22.160 because i noticed he didn't speak really in the animated sections but i'm not sure i didn't oh 00:10:22.190 --> 00:10:28.560 does he not speak i was thinking he speaks in that final scene on sharda but gosh okay i i see i i 00:10:28.780 --> 00:10:35.060 made myself sit through it without checking on on who was doing the voices because i wanted to judge 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:43.120 how good they were if they were not the original voices and I was I was extremely um critical in my 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:49.200 head of the guy who was playing uh Christopher Neame's part because I thought you know why have 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:53.800 they cast someone who doesn't even sound like him but uh it would seem that it was Christopher Neame 00:10:54.040 --> 00:10:58.560 and that would explain that so but I didn't check that until the end so I was like oh yeah 00:10:58.580 --> 00:10:59.760 You're bloody recasting. 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.820 Yeah, so as far as I know, they got everybody who was still alive. 00:11:04.940 --> 00:11:07.840 And I specifically saw the comment about the David Brewerly. 00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:13.140 I didn't dig deep enough to find out about the actor who played Renotis, 00:11:13.400 --> 00:11:15.520 or Sally Aven, depending on what you want to call him. 00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:17.620 But we could probably find out. 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:19.760 Yes, in fairness, many of whose scenes, 00:11:20.300 --> 00:11:26.220 almost all of whose scenes were actually shot at the time in 1970-whatever. 00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:34.740 Yeah, his, you know, it's very clear in this episode that, you know, they didn't do anything on Skagra's spaceship. 00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:36.740 They didn't do anything on the command ship. 00:11:36.940 --> 00:11:38.840 They didn't do anything on Shada. 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:47.400 So you'll have a scene where they run from the spaceship to Kronotus's TARDIS and you switch from animated to live action and vice versa. 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:49.800 Which I guess we'll come back to. 00:11:50.180 --> 00:11:59.020 And presumably Shirley Dixon didn't record anything in the 1970 production. 00:11:59.430 --> 00:12:07.920 So I don't know whether she was ever cast as the ship or whether that was a recent casting decision purely for this production. 00:12:07.950 --> 00:12:11.860 Well, yeah, there's nobody there that was done at the time. 00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:13.000 So, yeah, it makes sense. 00:12:13.300 --> 00:12:19.200 And the actor who played Cronotus was Dennis Carey, died in 1986. 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.180 Okay. So he definitely wasn't voicing anything we hear in the animation. 00:12:24.780 --> 00:12:27.560 But does he say anything? I'm going to have to re-watch it. 00:12:27.940 --> 00:12:32.340 Well, he might have said something like doctor or, you know, something that was said elsewhere. 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:33.820 So they could reuse a line, perhaps. 00:12:34.160 --> 00:12:35.800 Yeah, just to make it appear that he was. 00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:41.800 He was definitely there in a couple of scenes, but he didn't say a lot if he did say anything. 00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:42.160 Yes. 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:45.560 So let's start with talking a little bit more about the animation. 00:12:46.020 --> 00:12:47.360 How did that work for you then? 00:12:47.800 --> 00:13:04.720 Well, so the, I mean, if we just take the quality of the animation on its own, we're looking at, I mean, I guess it's slightly unusual for a Doctor Who animation house to actually manage to stay in business long enough to do a second story. 00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:18.880 But we're looking at the same crew who put together the power of the Daleks, which I kind of liked, I think, you know, that it wasn't invasion good, but it was it was it wasn't as bad as the Ice Warriors. 00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:21.720 And, you know, it had its had it had its strengths. 00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:29.840 And I kind of felt that, you know, in terms of taking the animation alone on this, it wasn't too bad either. 00:13:30.660 --> 00:13:33.380 I wasn't wild about their fourth doctor. 00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:38.920 No, he's kind of weird looking. I think they just repurposed their Troughton. They really like those eye sacks. 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:40.200 Yeah, yeah. 00:13:40.800 --> 00:13:43.360 Obviously, the doctor has very dark circles under his eyes. 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:50.660 And there's something about the movement, which I still find distressing. 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:51.400 Yes. 00:13:52.199 --> 00:13:55.300 It's like, you know, they haven't put a... 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:01.419 There's some effort in the drawing and the backgrounds and all the rest of it, but in the actual... 00:14:02.560 --> 00:14:06.140 the way in which the characters move around, 00:14:07.619 --> 00:14:10.360 it's quite sort of mechanical. 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:14.140 You know, yeah, it's not fantastic. 00:14:14.620 --> 00:14:17.400 But again, if anyone from the BBC is listening, 00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:18.240 I'll take it. 00:14:18.460 --> 00:14:20.480 I don't even mind the Ice Warriors animation. 00:14:20.810 --> 00:14:21.740 I will absolutely take it. 00:14:21.800 --> 00:14:23.240 You guys just start at the beginning 00:14:23.370 --> 00:14:24.860 and work your way through these things 00:14:25.180 --> 00:14:26.700 and just get her done. 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:28.820 And that will be fine. 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:29.980 It's fine. 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:41.580 I think what's more jarring here is, and this is going to be a weird one, because we do have episodes where the episode exists and then the next episode is animated and then the episode exists again and it's animated. 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.880 You bounce back and forth, you see the distinctions. 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:53.780 In this particular story, for starters, Tom Baker is a much more animated face in real life as the Doctor. 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:55.340 He's a very, right? 00:14:55.560 --> 00:15:04.900 He's a very, he uses a lot of big eyes and gawking and mugging it up for the camera. 00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:10.680 And you go from that to the kind of dead animation of the face. 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.100 And the same in this story. 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:17.400 I noticed it a lot, in particular with Romana. 00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:20.140 I'm not a huge fan of Lala Ward as Romana. 00:15:20.140 --> 00:15:22.180 I much prefer Mary Tam to Romana. 00:15:22.540 --> 00:15:31.420 But I don't dislike Lala Ward. But in this story and in and in probably City of Death, she is so much more animated. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:37.420 Her face is always, you know, she's in the background and she's reacting to what's going on. 00:15:37.540 --> 00:15:43.640 And she she beams and she she again, she's kind of playing it big for the camera in a way. 00:15:43.640 --> 00:15:46.920 But it looks a lot more natural. And then you go Douglas Adams. 00:15:47.260 --> 00:15:49.980 Yeah. And then you go to she likes Douglas Adams. 00:15:50.260 --> 00:15:54.220 And then you go to the animation, and again, she's pretty much stoic. 00:15:55.160 --> 00:16:03.080 And of course, the fact that the actress who is performing it is now 28, 38 years older. 00:16:03.660 --> 00:16:05.440 1980? Yeah, 38 years older. 00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:10.680 The animation of the voice doesn't sound the same either, just like Tom Baker's. 00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:13.540 They don't have the same brightness to it. 00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:14.420 And so... 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:15.140 All right, all right, all right. 00:16:15.140 --> 00:16:16.060 It's a little... 00:16:16.420 --> 00:16:19.400 Well, there's a couple of things. 00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:25.560 I mean, first of all, the question of the animation, that's exactly why I said taking the animation on its own. 00:16:25.900 --> 00:16:30.900 Because when you're switching back and forth from the animation, it is jarring. 00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:32.800 There's no way around it. 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:42.680 And I mean, I did make a note, actually, of that first shot of panning up into the sky when they're punting on the cam. 00:16:42.980 --> 00:16:49.940 panning up into the sky and then panning back down to seeing Briss riding on his bicycle 00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:51.720 in animated form. 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:52.440 Oh, yeah. 00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:57.180 And I knew what they would, you know, as soon as that shot went up, I thought, right, 00:16:57.210 --> 00:16:59.140 I know what's going to happen when we're coming down. 00:16:59.280 --> 00:17:01.240 We're looking at the animated version. 00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:02.480 This is the transition. 00:17:02.740 --> 00:17:06.459 But it is just beautifully done, I think. 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:09.660 But they must have shot that in the first place with the panning up. 00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:11.220 Well, that's the weird thing. 00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:15.020 I can't find, I mean, I don't know how to find out, 00:17:15.050 --> 00:17:18.640 but the footage you get, the obvious place to look 00:17:18.800 --> 00:17:22.000 is the version they made for VHS 00:17:22.439 --> 00:17:24.220 with the Tom Baker linking narration. 00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:26.380 The footage you get in that cuts 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:28.480 from well before you go up to the sky. 00:17:28.630 --> 00:17:32.100 So I have no idea whether they had to do anything 00:17:32.570 --> 00:17:36.420 to that shot in order to make it do what it does. 00:17:36.840 --> 00:17:40.939 I mean, obviously that particular location 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:43.340 and the sky are still there. 00:17:43.340 --> 00:17:45.940 So they could have gone back and shot that 00:17:45.940 --> 00:17:47.160 and somehow cut it together. 00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:47.780 I don't know. 00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:51.020 But I wanted to pay tribute to the fact 00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:52.980 that they had obviously thought quite carefully 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.280 about the difficulties that the audience would have 00:17:56.380 --> 00:17:59.360 in switching between live action and animated 00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:04.900 and that they had kind of let us in gently to it. 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.120 Because I think it is a real weakness. 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.920 I think it is an issue that your criticisms 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.660 of how animated Tom Baker is in the live action or whatever, 00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:21.380 I think you could and would just as readily make them 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:25.080 towards something involving Patrick Troughton, you know. 00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:27.940 Say the invasion cut back and forth in that way. 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:32.060 Patrick Troughton is no less animated than Tom Baker. 00:18:32.800 --> 00:18:33.380 Perhaps. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.060 And the animated scenes are pretty much just as static. 00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:43.460 The difference is you're being asked to you're being asked to watch something different. 00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:56.900 And so you put your head in a in a space where the the input, the visual input you're expected to receive and therefore the work your imagination is doing and so forth is different for a full 25 minutes. 00:18:57.460 --> 00:19:15.260 And that's much easier to do. I mean, even then, I seem to remember when we started out on this journey and when we were watching the invasion, I was thinking in some ways what I would prefer to do would be to watch eight episodes of animated invasion because then you wouldn't have the back and forth. 00:19:15.320 --> 00:19:20.780 And I'd still like to have the six surviving episodes on the DVD because I would still watch them. 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:27.380 But as a viewing experience, it would be different if you sat down and watched something completely animated. 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:31.360 And I thought that was what was so interesting about doing Power of the Daleks, 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:38.760 because there you got a whole story which was just done in one consistent style and there was no chopping back and forward. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.640 And I thought that worked really, really well. 00:19:41.900 --> 00:19:47.960 And it just astonished me that they chose to do Sharda, which, frankly, has been done enough. 00:19:49.020 --> 00:19:54.240 And, you know, it wasn't on my list of things I felt they needed to do. 00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.840 And it was always going to have this problem. 00:19:57.060 --> 00:20:04.380 It was always going to have this issue with the fact that you'd be sitting there watching it in one mode and then you'd be watching it in another mode. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.860 and it's not so bad at the beginning, 00:20:06.120 --> 00:20:07.580 but by the time you get to the end 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.020 and they're running out of Kronotus' TARDIS 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:12.160 onto the ship or whatever, 00:20:12.260 --> 00:20:13.520 and it's literally, you know, 00:20:13.860 --> 00:20:16.180 they run through a door and into the animation. 00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:20.300 It, you know, it just, it starts doing your head in. 00:20:20.520 --> 00:20:23.340 So I'm going to talk about another flaw I see in this. 00:20:23.560 --> 00:20:27.560 And again, I'm pleased to try and put stuff out. 00:20:28.840 --> 00:20:30.380 There's so many other animated projects 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:31.960 I would have rather seen than Shada. 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:33.040 Yep. 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.960 But here's another problem that I think is the fundamental flaw with this. 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:42.000 And I think it's why we have so many darn versions of Shada. 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:43.700 There's two things. 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:48.820 One, there's somebody who obviously thinks everything Douglas Adams ever did was fantastic. 00:20:50.260 --> 00:20:54.960 And there's obviously someone who thinks, no, it's not, because Shada's proof of that. 00:20:55.260 --> 00:21:05.180 And two, there's some belief that every last scrap of footage that they ever shot is worth keeping on this show. 00:21:05.580 --> 00:21:13.480 And so they have taken this production, which should have been a six-part episode, six one-part episodes. 00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:15.560 They have edited into a movie. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:17.120 Six one-part episodes? 00:21:17.420 --> 00:21:19.480 Sorry, six one-half-hour episodes. 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:20.440 I see what you mean. 00:21:20.760 --> 00:21:28.560 And they have edited into a movie, which, first off, if you're trying to recreate the original, that's not how you do it. 00:21:28.800 --> 00:21:31.540 It wasn't written to be one movie. 00:21:31.630 --> 00:21:33.500 It was written to be six parts. 00:21:33.550 --> 00:21:35.500 The beats are set for six parts. 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:36.200 Yes. 00:21:36.210 --> 00:21:36.780 And then... 00:21:36.860 --> 00:21:37.540 Absolutely. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:38.980 And then... 00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:39.160 100%. 00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:41.160 And they didn't edit it. 00:21:41.300 --> 00:21:42.180 That almost stopped me buying it. 00:21:42.380 --> 00:21:43.280 And they didn't edit it. 00:21:43.490 --> 00:21:45.960 They didn't go, okay, well, you know, we've remade this. 00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:48.420 This is not Shada, the original Shada. 00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:57.500 I think we can maybe take some of these scenes that are not advancing the plot and cut them out like way too much bicycling. 00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:59.960 And they could have. 00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:05.860 Well, there's a lot of wasted footage that I just feel like they've got the guy sitting there going, well, we've got this shot. 00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:09.920 Probably it would have been lost in edit, but it's real. 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:10.840 Let's do it. 00:22:11.100 --> 00:22:13.220 And they just left everything in. 00:22:13.580 --> 00:22:16.360 Absolutely every last scrap of film they've got. 00:22:16.470 --> 00:22:17.160 And they could have. 00:22:17.410 --> 00:22:18.160 Too much tea. 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:25.160 Too much making tea and muffins and just, man, it's just a slow, dull slog. 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:25.400 Okay. 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:26.480 And they've made it worse. 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:37.640 Well, see, I think that because, so first of all, the running time of the finished product is the running time of the original Shada. 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:43.080 So I'm not sure that there is evidence that they would have cut it a lot. 00:22:43.860 --> 00:22:50.580 and furthermore if you look at other serials from the period it's not as if they're entirely 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.680 free from padding oh no no no but you could eliminate the padding in when you've converted 00:22:55.730 --> 00:23:00.980 it to a movie well you could if you're down some because you're defeating the you're defeating the 00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:06.239 format so why not go at it and say yeah i think we can make this better okay because you're because 00:23:06.260 --> 00:23:14.600 what you're doing is you're making sharda 2017 not sharda 1980 17 whatever and uh so yes i would 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:21.100 agree with that except that what i would actually want if they're doing this what what i would 00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:24.440 actually want because there is the question of why they're doing this which i think we'll come 00:23:24.490 --> 00:23:31.680 back to i would want the six individual episodes and it the fact that when i you know when i was 00:23:31.800 --> 00:23:36.220 thinking of getting this and the and the reviews were sort of positive and i was like well all 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:42.060 you know maybe despite my skepticism this is going to be worth getting and then I saw as a 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:46.300 kind of footnote oh but it's a shame they didn't present it or at least offer the option of 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:53.160 presenting it in the six individual episodes and I thought what no you know no what's what why would 00:23:53.160 --> 00:24:00.419 I be surely the whole point of this project is to present the sharder that would have been and 00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:10.080 And I'm just going to add, they put the 1980 BBC intro at it to try to make it even look more like what the original project would be. 00:24:10.260 --> 00:24:10.660 I know. 00:24:10.800 --> 00:24:12.100 And then they change it. 00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:13.620 It makes no sense at all. 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:19.260 See, that did just kind of irritate me, that intro. 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:26.320 Because, yes, it's a reminder of the fact that what they're trying to do is set something up that is a recreation. 00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:30.000 Now, so the criticisms of it, 00:24:30.260 --> 00:24:33.860 it's back and forth between the footage and the animation. 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:37.260 That makes me wonder, you know, 00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:39.540 well, with some of the other animations, 00:24:41.060 --> 00:24:42.080 Tenth Planet or whatever, 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:44.220 let's pick on Tenth Planet. 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:47.780 They reconstructed the missing fourth episode 00:24:48.760 --> 00:24:53.120 and they've tried to do it as pretty much as faithfully as they can 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:55.060 so that it fits with the other episodes 00:24:55.120 --> 00:24:56.840 and now you can watch a completed serial. 00:24:57.140 --> 00:25:01.040 But the fourth episode, no one would mistake it for the original. 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:04.380 No one would go, oh, I wasn't looking too closely, 00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:07.200 and I thought that was the actual live-action episode come back. 00:25:07.420 --> 00:25:07.600 No. 00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:09.860 We know it is an animation. 00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:13.080 And a recognition of that fact is that they don't, 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:17.040 even with key scenes like Hartnell regenerating into Troughton, 00:25:17.100 --> 00:25:20.640 where the actual genuine original footage does still exist, 00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:22.640 they don't splice that back in. 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:24.520 There's no kind of cut back and forth, 00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:29.160 because presumably they've weighed it up and they've decided that the better viewing experience 00:25:29.290 --> 00:25:35.380 is you just sort of sit there and have an episode that is animated and if you want to then go and 00:25:35.520 --> 00:25:40.440 watch the remaining scraps of footage well you can do so just put it on the dvd and there you go 00:25:40.590 --> 00:25:46.900 yeah yeah yeah so what we've got here isn't quite that what what they're trying to do is they're 00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:53.499 trying to present to you what is essentially a bunch of scraps of footage and the animation 00:25:54.140 --> 00:26:00.140 is it's even more so than with the animated missing episodes it's filler in order to make 00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:07.620 it possible for you to watch the original footage and yet still be able to kind of follow a through 00:26:07.800 --> 00:26:15.640 narrative in a way that it you know however however engagingly tom baker presents it in the 00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:23.480 in the linking narration you just don't quite get from his sort of pricey of of the the the 00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:30.060 action in that version and so in view of that again i would say that argues for you to try and 00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:34.880 recreate something that is as close to the original as it would have been which includes putting the 00:26:35.060 --> 00:26:41.240 beginning and end bumpers in and you know if for no other reason and not i'm not saying they're 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:47.740 the greatest cliffhangers in doctor who history right especially the the chain link gate um but 00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:50.620 You know, as you say, those are the beats. 00:26:51.100 --> 00:26:57.900 And those scenes almost don't make any sense unless you get the shriek and the play out over it. 00:26:58.180 --> 00:27:01.000 I get this when I'm listening to Big Finish. 00:27:01.800 --> 00:27:05.680 My daughter and I listen to Big Finish when I take her to school and bring her home every night. 00:27:05.900 --> 00:27:16.680 So we're watching, we're listening to these things, you know, maybe the majority of a single episode of the classic range each day and or each way. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.400 the majority of a single episode in each transit. 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:22.100 And so we'll get to one cliffhanger a day 00:27:22.750 --> 00:27:23.660 through that technique. 00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:26.000 And we'll be sitting there in the car 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:27.200 and you'll be going along and you'll go, 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:28.560 and cue, 00:27:28.840 --> 00:27:31.660 because you know when they're building up to it. 00:27:32.020 --> 00:27:34.040 And it's wrong when it doesn't happen. 00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:36.640 And you see it in Shada from time to time. 00:27:36.670 --> 00:27:36.980 And you go, 00:27:37.260 --> 00:27:38.400 I think that might've, 00:27:38.620 --> 00:27:40.520 I think when he's dying of no air, 00:27:40.700 --> 00:27:41.500 that might be one. 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.860 And I think the Chainlink Finch might be one. 00:27:45.820 --> 00:27:46.120 But- 00:27:46.120 --> 00:27:46.680 We know the cliffhanger. 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:53.660 Well, I know the cliffhangers from knowing the story, but you still, yeah, you want the payoff. 00:27:53.810 --> 00:27:55.620 The payoff is the theme tune. 00:27:56.500 --> 00:28:03.740 And that cheat they do, like when he's at the chain link fence and, you know, at the end of the first episode, it looked like it was all over for the doctor. 00:28:04.070 --> 00:28:09.020 But then when they play it the next time, the sound of the TARDIS materializing has been added to the mix. 00:28:09.520 --> 00:28:09.660 Yeah. 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:10.900 Like it was this time. 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.360 So there was never any suspense at all there. 00:28:15.780 --> 00:28:17.580 It's there in the VHS version. 00:28:18.060 --> 00:28:18.300 Is it? 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.840 You know, they actually, yeah, that version has the individual episodes. 00:28:23.300 --> 00:28:24.020 Oh, it has, okay. 00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:28.000 The episodes get shorter and shorter as there's more and more narration in them. 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:32.420 It's still got the proper cliffhangers and the full titles 00:28:32.740 --> 00:28:34.980 and then intro titles to the next episode. 00:28:35.280 --> 00:28:37.960 And if someone could take the care to do that 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:40.180 when actually all they'd done was edit together the footage 00:28:40.460 --> 00:28:42.300 with a bit of Tom Baker sat in a cupboard, 00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:44.600 I don't understand why they couldn't do it 00:28:44.620 --> 00:28:49.120 when they had gone to all of the trouble of remastering all of this 00:28:49.280 --> 00:28:53.720 and actually getting as many of the original actors as they could 00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:56.600 back together in order to restage an audio soundtrack. 00:28:56.840 --> 00:29:00.220 I mean, it's a lot of work they have done for this one. 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:03.380 Why spoil the ship for Hay-Pet-A-Tar? 00:29:04.420 --> 00:29:07.500 And some of, you know, I make fun of the bicycling. 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:09.520 Yeah, I know they do bicycles at Cambridge. 00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:11.660 I like bicycles, a bicycle rider. 00:29:12.020 --> 00:29:13.080 I'm not opposed to bicycles. 00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:21.020 it doesn't make the most compelling television um but not a trans viewer then no but you see 00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:27.320 like there's this scene where chris is riding away from chronotis and he is on a bike and then 00:29:27.780 --> 00:29:36.200 you see the scene where he shows up in his lab and you see him ride the bike or walk the bike 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:43.120 past the window before he comes around and enters the room and i like that except that 00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:47.280 like that i mean i mean could they have spent that money on something else you did need it 00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:53.500 i mean so there is there is i will concede there is a question dramatically over whether you need 00:29:53.580 --> 00:29:58.640 that i quite liked it from an aesthetic point of view but there is there is a different need for 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:06.420 it which is that that is the first animated shot so what what you're getting then is the transition 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:12.400 to the animation so i feel like that sequence is actually quite important it was lost on me 00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:13.460 It was lost on me. 00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:14.740 I went to animation. 00:30:15.020 --> 00:30:15.880 I'm like, oh, it's animation. 00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:20.900 And then they're like, they could have just started that with him walking in the door of his lab. 00:30:21.260 --> 00:30:23.160 Because we already knew he was in transit. 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:25.240 So they spent money on that. 00:30:25.280 --> 00:30:27.280 And I think that's probably the part that gets me. 00:30:27.280 --> 00:30:33.600 It's like, if we assume that animation has a set cost per second, and they're apparently it's quite expensive. 00:30:35.019 --> 00:30:36.060 Then, I don't know. 00:30:36.280 --> 00:30:40.180 It just seemed like they didn't know what they were after here. 00:30:40.260 --> 00:30:42.220 Maybe that shot was in the original. 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:46.860 Maybe they have the documents, the shot list, 00:30:46.940 --> 00:30:49.680 and how the camera was going to be staged. 00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.400 And maybe they went for that and went for every shot, 00:30:52.560 --> 00:30:54.700 just like they had every shot of the bike riding. 00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.880 And they just said, we're just going to animate everything that should have been done. 00:30:58.679 --> 00:30:59.480 Absolutely, positively. 00:30:59.560 --> 00:31:00.980 We're just not going to bother with the cliffhangers. 00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:05.780 And we've got to fill out the time. 00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:07.640 So we're going to make sure it's the full length, 00:31:07.760 --> 00:31:10.340 Even though we're not doing a six episode show for Aaron. 00:31:11.300 --> 00:31:13.100 Enough, enough, enough, enough harping on that. 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:13.860 All right. 00:31:14.100 --> 00:31:20.760 Now I debated whether I should go back and listen to the podcast or to see, to make sure I'm not repeating stuff that I said before. 00:31:20.930 --> 00:31:34.080 But I, you know, I also am watching the episode and taking some notes about the episode itself because this is not the same as the, um, the Paul McGann version because they, you know, did some work on it. 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:36.160 and some of the things, 00:31:36.740 --> 00:31:38.880 we get a different Doctor kind of, 00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:40.600 different attitude here and there. 00:31:40.600 --> 00:31:43.100 We get some different performances. 00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:47.440 But, so I want to point out here 00:31:47.660 --> 00:31:50.740 that of all the series of Doctor Who, 00:31:51.520 --> 00:31:53.100 17 kind of sucked. 00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.380 It's not a good one. 00:31:57.600 --> 00:31:59.440 And I don't know, you know, 00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:00.640 Graham Williams? 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:01.780 Yeah, Graham Williams. 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.020 He did all right with the key to time. 00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:06.960 He did all right with the Horror of Fang Rock season. 00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:09.420 I mean, there are some things I don't like. 00:32:10.280 --> 00:32:11.340 I love the key to time. 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.480 There are some things about the style and the design that changed, 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:17.860 that changed again when John Nathan Turner, 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.180 that I'm not really crazy about. 00:32:19.420 --> 00:32:23.580 But season 17, and unfortunately this is, in my mind, 00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:25.900 is inextricably linked with Romana 2. 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:28.080 It's not really her fault. 00:32:28.520 --> 00:32:29.360 It's not her fault. 00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:33.580 It's not, because season 18, which is brilliant, 00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:42.580 is romana heavy right i think i think it was it was due a change of producer yeah so shada is not 00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:48.960 good i mean it's not horns of niman bad but it's close um nightmare i kind of like nightmare 00:32:49.220 --> 00:32:54.720 it's not creature no creature the pit um you know these are not good it's just not a good run of 00:32:54.880 --> 00:33:01.479 stories and we have douglas adams as the script editor at this point in time and as i kind of get 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:02.500 from the interviews and stuff, 00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:04.520 this was not a job he was suited to do. 00:33:06.060 --> 00:33:08.940 He didn't, I don't think he pulled this together, 00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:10.320 particularly when he was writing himself. 00:33:10.780 --> 00:33:13.060 I didn't think he was script editor in season 17. 00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.420 The only season he was script editor, wasn't it? 00:33:15.620 --> 00:33:16.100 Oh, okay. 00:33:16.360 --> 00:33:18.420 Because prior to that was Key to Time. 00:33:18.980 --> 00:33:20.320 And I don't think he was script editor. 00:33:20.320 --> 00:33:20.780 Yeah, no, you're right. 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:21.180 You're right. 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:22.340 It would have to be season 17. 00:33:22.520 --> 00:33:23.040 Yeah, yeah. 00:33:23.380 --> 00:33:25.760 For some reason, I thought he left the show earlier than that. 00:33:25.860 --> 00:33:26.440 Anyway, yes. 00:33:26.660 --> 00:33:29.020 But, so, you know, there's some problems 00:33:29.260 --> 00:33:30.060 with the story itself. 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:35.360 There just isn't just it's part of a bad stretch of Doctor Who and it's not fantastic. 00:33:35.530 --> 00:33:46.400 But, you know, it's got that it's got that reputation because it's it's Douglas Adams and it really is his lesser work of all the stuff I've ever read from Douglas Adams or seen. 00:33:46.860 --> 00:33:50.520 This has got to be, in my opinion, the poorest thing he's done, bar none. 00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:53.900 And yes, you probably you're probably right. 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:55.320 But it's still Douglas Adams. 00:33:55.780 --> 00:33:56.820 And here's the thing. 00:33:57.040 --> 00:33:57.340 It is. 00:33:57.460 --> 00:33:58.600 It's still good. 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.960 It's the, I mean, okay, you're not going to agree with that. 00:34:03.300 --> 00:34:07.740 And we could rehash episode 211 all over again. 00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:12.320 But for me, what I've gathered from watching this, 00:34:12.520 --> 00:34:17.220 which is definitely the best way to appreciate the performances 00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:21.320 in the original stuff that was shot, 00:34:22.100 --> 00:34:24.220 because you do have this through narrative 00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:27.979 and it does give you the ability to judge it in a context 00:34:27.980 --> 00:34:31.080 where you can kind of follow it through. 00:34:31.780 --> 00:34:34.600 It is coloured, and I guess we'll come back to this, 00:34:34.659 --> 00:34:39.159 it is coloured by the 2017 performances by the same actors, 00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:42.300 which you're obviously switching back and forth from. 00:34:42.600 --> 00:34:47.960 But just looking at the kind of stuff that was shot at the time now 00:34:48.540 --> 00:34:54.280 and comparing it, as we can do, to an alternative realisation of the material, 00:34:54.500 --> 00:34:57.160 I don't think that it is a good production. 00:34:57.580 --> 00:34:59.600 I think it's badly directed. 00:34:59.960 --> 00:35:03.020 I mean, I think Ken Roberts is a good director, 00:35:03.380 --> 00:35:08.660 but he's not making the most of the material that he's got 00:35:08.900 --> 00:35:13.220 because Douglas Adams does comedy and it needs a direct. 00:35:13.540 --> 00:35:14.220 Not well directed. 00:35:14.580 --> 00:35:15.240 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:15.580 --> 00:35:20.180 And I thought Dennis Carey, who I don't know from anything else, was... 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:20.940 Keeper of Trocken. 00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:21.700 Good grief. 00:35:22.080 --> 00:35:22.880 He's the keeper, is he? 00:35:23.220 --> 00:35:24.220 Yes, that was his other doctor. 00:35:24.220 --> 00:35:25.340 And that's only a year later. 00:35:25.740 --> 00:35:27.260 Well, I think he was under makeup at that time. 00:35:27.520 --> 00:35:32.900 Remarkable. Well, OK, I mean, because I think his performance as a keeper is excellent. 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.980 So I was wondering whether he was miscast or badly directed. 00:35:37.720 --> 00:35:43.000 I mean, obviously, Cronotis, the performance is supposed to give you confused old man. 00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:47.740 But half the time what I was getting was rather confused actor playing old man. 00:35:48.140 --> 00:35:51.480 And it just it doesn't it doesn't hang together. 00:35:52.480 --> 00:36:09.120 The comparison is against a cast that, you know, has Susanna Harker and James Fox, for goodness sake, and Hannah Gordon playing the ship. 00:36:09.340 --> 00:36:12.600 Fantastic. Andrew Sachs, Sean Biggerstaff. 00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:23.860 It's the new version, the newer version or the early 21st century version is extremely well directed. 00:36:24.060 --> 00:36:29.080 I think it's Nicholas Pegg. And it has a stellar cast. 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:36.160 And they really do make the most of the material. And it has the proper canine in it. 00:36:36.200 --> 00:36:40.940 You know, I can't get over the fact that when I see canine, it should be John Neeson's voice. 00:36:41.380 --> 00:36:46.980 So I appreciate that they've gone to the trouble of filling in the bits with clips of David Brearley. 00:36:47.220 --> 00:36:47.760 It's wrong. 00:36:48.600 --> 00:36:55.060 I think they should at least have included an alternate track on the DVD where they got John Leeson to just revoice all of it. 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:57.100 I was going to ask you if they should have done that. 00:36:58.460 --> 00:36:58.860 Absolutely. 00:36:59.520 --> 00:37:04.500 But then they should have done that with all of the old Doctor Whos by that stretch two in season 17. 00:37:04.820 --> 00:37:05.120 Definitely. 00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:05.860 Definitely. 00:37:06.220 --> 00:37:10.900 Because John Leeson's canine is just an absolute delight. 00:37:11.120 --> 00:37:13.820 I'm so glad you went back to Big Finish and did a load of these. 00:37:14.220 --> 00:37:16.040 The canine proper box set. 00:37:16.100 --> 00:37:20.020 They can sell those as a separate reissue now where they take Series 17, 00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:24.940 re-dub John Leeson, pop it down, sell it for some more money. 00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:27.380 I think when it comes out on Blu-ray, 00:37:27.720 --> 00:37:30.540 I shall be very disappointed if they haven't included that. 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:39.419 But, you know, my overall feeling is that what we are seeing here 00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.920 in terms of the shortcomings of Sharda 2017 00:37:43.690 --> 00:37:45.480 are not as much to do with the material, 00:37:45.550 --> 00:37:47.980 which I'll agree is Adam's weakest work. 00:37:48.210 --> 00:37:49.820 But it's not that. 00:37:50.040 --> 00:37:52.660 It can be a load better. 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:55.700 We know that because we have seen it better elsewhere. 00:37:56.080 --> 00:37:58.320 You know, he is high concept. 00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:02.260 I think I can safely say that Doug Allen, high concept, 00:38:02.420 --> 00:38:04.980 and high concept does not lend itself to long form. 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:08.020 So for starters, when he'd been doing this story, 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:12.420 When he was doing this story, he'd have been much better if it had been four parts. 00:38:12.820 --> 00:38:14.780 Hitchhikers, well, OK, he struggled. 00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:16.260 Yes, all right. 00:38:16.940 --> 00:38:25.780 Hitchhikers, he didn't manage to write all six episodes of Hitchhikers and the LP version and the book are only the first step for adapted. 00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:27.460 So maybe. Yeah, all right. 00:38:28.220 --> 00:38:37.020 Yes, if he was right, if he if he were starting out writing a script that was intended as a four part serial, he might have done a better job at it. 00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.840 And we might not be judging it his weakest work. 00:38:40.220 --> 00:38:40.360 Yes. 00:38:40.660 --> 00:38:41.940 It's still Douglas Adams, though. 00:38:42.240 --> 00:38:42.320 Yeah. 00:38:42.740 --> 00:38:43.780 Which I don't... 00:38:44.640 --> 00:38:46.980 Never have thought fit very well in the Doctor Who universe. 00:38:47.580 --> 00:38:50.080 So I'm kind of on the fence there. 00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:51.720 I like Pirate Planet. 00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:53.660 Everything fits in the Doctor Who universe. 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:54.920 I like Pirate Planet. 00:38:55.380 --> 00:38:56.360 City of Death is... 00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:56.900 Okay. 00:38:57.220 --> 00:38:58.280 City of Death is great. 00:38:58.740 --> 00:38:59.760 It's got its moments. 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:04.260 It also doesn't make a lot of sense in places where they just don't bother to... 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.980 They have stuff that they just don't even bother to explain. 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:12.500 that has no bearing on the plot like the guy drawing a picture of the time lady holistic 00:39:12.720 --> 00:39:17.420 detective agency right well but that came afterwards he took his work and he and he's 00:39:17.600 --> 00:39:24.320 added another draft he's taken another yeah he fixed it right first drafts are not his strong 00:39:24.580 --> 00:39:30.440 suit either and this is well he's never a first draft deadline yeah well it shouldn't be a first 00:39:30.460 --> 00:39:34.719 draft it was being shot i mean it's not like it didn't get finished because the script didn't get 00:39:34.740 --> 00:39:39.360 finished it didn't get finished because they couldn't finish filming it but they started by 00:39:39.500 --> 00:39:43.760 which point okay with douglas adams you couldn't guarantee it but by which point they should have 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:48.460 had a script he was the script editor so he had work to do on all the other scripts he'd already 00:39:48.600 --> 00:39:54.040 written one script that season for city of death and this is the last production of the season 00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:00.259 i'm gonna say that i'd be willing to bet that douglas adams was typing right up to the last 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:05.720 minute it feels like i don't think don't think you'll get any takers yeah i i think it it has 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:09.960 that feel and i think that if he had plopped this out and said well we're not going to make this 00:40:10.040 --> 00:40:14.580 this year and then he'd written a book out of it a few years later which in a way he has 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:20.640 it would be better and it just it yeah there's so many you know too many coincidences 00:40:21.980 --> 00:40:28.999 well he did he did but i'm talking about it would be it would be in parts of this get worked into 00:40:29.240 --> 00:40:36.520 Dirk Gently's as well? No, Dirk Gently is... That's a good question. Did part of this get 00:40:36.670 --> 00:40:40.600 worked into Dirk Gently? I can't remember now, but I felt like some of this Cronotus stuff was, 00:40:40.820 --> 00:40:45.440 but... Yes, it is. Yes, of course it is. Yes. Including the name. Yeah. There's Professor 00:40:45.620 --> 00:40:50.240 Reg Cronotus. Yes. Yes, it does. Yes, it does get worked into Dirk Gently, which I missed. Yes, 00:40:50.380 --> 00:40:54.380 I missed when we were talking about all of the different versions of Sharda that we've got, 00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:56.600 because in some ways that is the best one. 00:40:56.820 --> 00:41:01.060 I don't know whether James Goss fixes some of these things in his novel version, 00:41:01.540 --> 00:41:07.700 but I think the question of, I mean, you've alluded to the fact that you think it needs editing, 00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:14.160 so we come back to whether what we are trying to do is produce a new version that is fixed, 00:41:14.580 --> 00:41:19.940 or whether we're trying to produce something that is very much like it would have been in the 1970s. 00:41:20.200 --> 00:41:25.700 And again, I think the issue here is this falls between two stools. 00:41:26.160 --> 00:41:27.700 I mean, I keep coming back to this. 00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:31.220 This is the real weakness with this whole project. 00:41:31.810 --> 00:41:34.780 You can do various things with Sharda. 00:41:35.520 --> 00:41:39.640 One would be you just try and do an absolute faithful recreation. 00:41:40.130 --> 00:41:42.160 I think this is much nearer to what they've done. 00:41:43.040 --> 00:41:47.499 Another would be you try and take what you've got, but just... 00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:52.640 So let's say you have to restage parts of it. 00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:58.840 And so what you could do is you say, well, let's fix it. 00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:00.640 Let's make some script changes. 00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:07.600 But actually, when you're going down that route, what you might do is say, well, let's fix all the other bits as well. 00:42:07.740 --> 00:42:09.520 In fact, let's restage the whole thing. 00:42:09.700 --> 00:42:14.680 In fact, let's do what Big Finish did, which is let's just recast everyone and do it properly. 00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:19.700 And to me, that gives you a better result because think of it. 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.320 Yeah, I think it would be a better result, but I think people are going to be looking at that going. 00:42:23.420 --> 00:42:24.500 But what about the Tom Baker footage? 00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:25.940 Well, they are. 00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:26.580 What are we going to do with that? 00:42:26.590 --> 00:42:29.540 But that is kind of still there. 00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:38.680 And so here's the other problem, which you've also mentioned, which comes up from switching between the live action stuff and the animated stuff, 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:42.680 which is that they have had to restage the recording, 00:42:42.950 --> 00:42:45.960 or they have had to mount a recording of the missing stuff 00:42:46.240 --> 00:42:49.860 because it never existed, with the original cast 00:42:49.970 --> 00:42:53.380 because it has to fit in between the existing footage. 00:42:54.060 --> 00:42:58.100 But the original cast is almost 40 years older 00:42:58.340 --> 00:43:01.420 and it wasn't so much Lala Ward's performance 00:43:01.630 --> 00:43:04.940 that I was focusing on in this as it was Tom Baker's 00:43:04.950 --> 00:43:06.600 because I've always had, you know, 00:43:06.640 --> 00:43:11.660 since Tom Baker did start playing the Doctor again in the Big Finish stories, I've always 00:43:11.820 --> 00:43:17.320 been trying to put my finger on exactly what it is that is off about his performance, because 00:43:17.740 --> 00:43:23.200 far more than any of the other Big Finish Doctors, even someone like Peter Davison's, whose voice has 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:29.940 changed so completely, and yet the performance is still, for me, it still kind of rings through 00:43:30.500 --> 00:43:36.019 to the performance that he was giving in the early 80s when he was on screen. And Tom Baker's doesn't 00:43:36.060 --> 00:43:43.360 quite and Sharda is an opportunity where you actually get to watch 1970s Tom Baker and then 00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:51.140 literally seconds later listen to present-day Tom Baker doing his performance as the Doctor and 00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:56.760 and they sound very similar because obviously they're both Tom Baker but what I think it is 00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:03.419 is that Tom Baker as the Doctor when he was on TV gave a performance as the Doctor that was 00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:11.900 quite laconic and also quite deliberately and almost gleefully unexpected in the way 00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:17.620 that he gave the performance so he wouldn't do the obvious thing so when you expected him to be 00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:23.060 angry or urgent he would sort of pull back and he would he would you know his voice would drop or 00:44:23.060 --> 00:44:28.059 he would he would become very gentle he you know when he was when you expected him to shout he 00:44:28.080 --> 00:44:34.420 would whisper it would always be he would always be looking for some way to to put you off off 00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:40.600 guard because that's what the performance is it's a very sort of uh it's it's slightly alien in its 00:44:41.120 --> 00:44:46.360 unexpectedness okay so i'm gonna add to that right his performance is like that but a lot of that 00:44:46.540 --> 00:44:52.120 performance was his physicality yes which we cannot get in big finish well we can because i think you 00:44:52.200 --> 00:44:57.479 get that in the voice if you close your eyes and you listen to him doing it on screen you do get a 00:44:57.500 --> 00:45:05.100 lot of that what i what i think is different about tom baker now is that you there is something 00:45:05.620 --> 00:45:11.060 that about that young man because it because he was he was one of the quite you know young people 00:45:11.260 --> 00:45:15.920 or maybe not so much when he was doing sharda but he was young playing the doctor and there's an 00:45:16.140 --> 00:45:21.600 almost effortlessness to his performance you know think of him especially compared to pertweeber 00:45:21.680 --> 00:45:27.460 sticking his feet on top of the windscreen of the land rover in robot and just you know lying back 00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:28.380 with his hat over his face. 00:45:28.520 --> 00:45:30.620 It's that kind of, that effortlessness. 00:45:30.950 --> 00:45:34.640 And what you get now is someone who is trying to recreate 00:45:35.160 --> 00:45:36.540 his performance as the Doctor, 00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:39.480 putting a huge amount of effort 00:45:40.010 --> 00:45:42.620 into sounding like Tom Baker did then, 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:44.540 40 years ago, playing the Doctor. 00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:47.620 It's almost like listening to John Colshaw 00:45:47.630 --> 00:45:50.920 or someone doing a Doctor Who impression. 00:45:51.580 --> 00:45:53.920 It's the reason I don't like mimicry, 00:45:54.020 --> 00:45:58.940 you know the the the kind of tim treloar pretending to be john pertwee type thing 00:45:59.420 --> 00:46:05.780 because what they're actually doing what tom baker is himself doing is picking out those aspects of 00:46:06.080 --> 00:46:10.780 his performance back then that are most recognizable and and playing them up and it 00:46:11.100 --> 00:46:16.740 doesn't have that kind of very laid-back feel to it and i mean that sounds very critical of tom 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:23.920 baker the guy is 183 or something yeah yeah he's just about reached the age that 00:46:23.940 --> 00:46:30.280 his doctor was when he was playing the doctor yeah yeah so this so the the idea that he could 00:46:30.500 --> 00:46:39.540 in some way give that same kind of effortlessness or or youthful laid-back performance now is you 00:46:39.540 --> 00:46:46.280 know it's it's just no one could no one could so so you can't you can't criticize him for that 00:46:46.540 --> 00:46:52.440 but that's what i think is the difference between the tom baker performance today and the tom baker 00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:59.720 performance in 70 whatever and the issue bringing it all back to to shada 2017 the issue that that 00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:05.040 gives you is as you switch back and forth once again you're presented you're you know you're 00:47:05.130 --> 00:47:09.780 you get used to the one performance and then boom suddenly you're in animation and you're getting the 00:47:10.040 --> 00:47:15.440 the the kind of heightened more predictable performance and then boom suddenly yeah you're 00:47:15.500 --> 00:47:20.480 back again but only for the one scene you can't relax into it because away we go on the animation 00:47:20.500 --> 00:47:21.840 again. I will say this. 00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:24.580 I think I recall you saying 00:47:25.040 --> 00:47:26.460 that you were not particularly 00:47:26.900 --> 00:47:28.260 following the Big Finish Tom Baker 00:47:28.720 --> 00:47:29.000 adventures. 00:47:30.120 --> 00:47:31.460 I have been. 00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:34.200 I think he's definitely gotten better 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:35.920 through the Big Finish. 00:47:36.260 --> 00:47:37.820 The early ones were kind of painful. 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.560 I've been dipping into Series 8 00:47:40.580 --> 00:47:42.360 I think it is and he's pretty good. 00:47:42.700 --> 00:47:42.800 Yeah. 00:47:43.820 --> 00:47:46.100 But he still doesn't sound like 00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:48.200 70s Tom Baker. It doesn't matter 00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:50.460 hugely because you're listening to 00:47:50.520 --> 00:47:56.060 an entire story with just the performance he's giving now and once you get used to it and you 00:47:56.180 --> 00:48:02.240 get into it that's okay but you can't do that with this sharder right right um let's see what 00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:08.440 else we got here um again you know the story wise it just feels like there's too many characters i 00:48:08.540 --> 00:48:15.040 like claire i don't know why she's in the story they could have trimmed a lot of this out but um 00:48:15.060 --> 00:48:22.200 one of the things that bugs me about this because it is being staged as if it's part of series 17 00:48:22.740 --> 00:48:29.500 and it would have bothered the heck out of me in series 17 if it had been at the time and there 00:48:29.620 --> 00:48:35.560 are instances where it's already a problem in series 17 but nowhere is it worse than in this 00:48:35.780 --> 00:48:43.520 episode where is the randomizer the TARDIS is unflyable in series 17 and they don't fix it 00:48:43.560 --> 00:48:49.060 until series 18 in the leisure hive right i mean that's that is fundamental yeah i guess of the 00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:55.460 series but that's part of the part of the problem with going back and pretending that sharder occurs 00:48:55.610 --> 00:49:02.140 between series 17 and 18 is that when they made the leisure hive they they knew that that that 00:49:02.420 --> 00:49:06.920 sharder wasn't going to be shown so they could say we fixed the randomizer knowing that the 00:49:07.240 --> 00:49:12.340 preceding episode the randomizer wasn't fixed well they no i'm not gonna say i i'm not saying 00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:17.440 there is a in the leisure hive they destroyed the randomizer sorry yes they they took it out 00:49:17.540 --> 00:49:23.100 and used it for something else yeah yes yes i mean yes getting it back to front what i'm not 00:49:23.170 --> 00:49:28.140 saying is that they would have inserted such a scene into sharda had it got what what i'm what 00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:34.460 i'm saying is that i think it probably wasn't in graham williams mind to do anything at all with 00:49:34.460 --> 00:49:38.540 the randomizer they would probably have just forgotten about it it's weird about that is that 00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:44.280 they went this is this is series 17 this is they started it at the beginning well they started it 00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:51.800 in the last scene of series 16 and you know this was this was a problem that they dealt with 00:49:52.100 --> 00:49:56.680 throughout the entirety of series 17 i i can't imagine that people working on this were just like 00:49:57.160 --> 00:50:02.020 eh we'll just forget about it today because they did well i think they were because the point the 00:50:02.180 --> 00:50:06.920 point about the randomizer wasn't to create a new series arc the point about the randomizer was 00:50:07.240 --> 00:50:11.400 to snap away from this problem of the TARDIS having become too predictable. 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:13.120 Yep, I agree. 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:15.620 The reason the TARDIS had become too predictable 00:50:15.900 --> 00:50:18.960 was just because they drifted into writing it that way. 00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.540 And I suspect they would have ended up drifting back into writing it this way. 00:50:22.900 --> 00:50:24.900 And I suspect that was what was happening with Sharda. 00:50:25.240 --> 00:50:27.700 And I think when John Nathan Turner took over, 00:50:28.180 --> 00:50:29.100 knowing what had come before, 00:50:29.580 --> 00:50:32.860 the reason he could write a scene or he could have written a scene 00:50:33.080 --> 00:50:35.940 where the randomiser was explicitly removed 00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:41.900 was because it followed on and he wanted to show that 00:50:42.160 --> 00:50:43.780 because he was coming in as a new broom 00:50:43.780 --> 00:50:45.040 and he wanted to show what was different. 00:50:45.330 --> 00:50:48.160 And I think therein lies a thing about this. 00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:52.340 Sharda didn't happen between Series 17 and Series 18 00:50:52.860 --> 00:50:57.220 and everyone making the show thereafter knew that. 00:50:57.460 --> 00:51:01.640 And now we have what is now known as Return to Sharda, 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.160 but the 2003 webcast version of Sharda, 00:51:06.190 --> 00:51:07.620 which had this whole scene in it 00:51:08.140 --> 00:51:11.020 about how they were taken out of time 00:51:11.110 --> 00:51:12.540 when they were punting on the cam 00:51:13.020 --> 00:51:15.340 by the sequences in The Five Doctors. 00:51:15.820 --> 00:51:17.420 Five Doctors is another example 00:51:17.680 --> 00:51:19.580 where they knew Sharda hadn't been broadcast. 00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:21.820 They could therefore use footage from it. 00:51:22.640 --> 00:51:23.960 And so going back and saying, 00:51:24.100 --> 00:51:26.080 well, actually we pretend that Sharda did happen, 00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:28.860 it doesn't quite work with the continuity of the show anymore. 00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:29.200 Sorry. 00:51:29.700 --> 00:51:46.140 So it's always going to be a sidestep, an oddity, a kind of museum artifact, if you like, than a real part of canonical Doctor Who, if you make it a kind of showcase for the scraps of footage as they were filmed back then. 00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:50.100 Three things I want to bring out, then I can turn over to anything else. 00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:53.000 And these are nitpicks or big picks, however you want to look at. 00:51:53.080 --> 00:51:57.000 But they're just, and watching this particular version of the story as it was, 00:51:57.020 --> 00:52:01.540 there were three things that really stood out to me that glared in there. 00:52:01.820 --> 00:52:02.760 This doesn't make sense. 00:52:03.020 --> 00:52:04.960 The first is why did Chris take that book? 00:52:05.380 --> 00:52:10.740 Who, how, anyone could go to someone and say, 00:52:11.120 --> 00:52:12.820 can I borrow some books on carbon dating? 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:14.640 And they say, oh, they're down there. 00:52:15.140 --> 00:52:16.300 And you pick books. 00:52:16.680 --> 00:52:26.960 I don't know about you, but I never, ever pick a book in a language I can't read without knowing what the title of the book is and walk away with it, which is exactly what he did. 00:52:27.290 --> 00:52:28.820 That makes no sense whatsoever. 00:52:29.359 --> 00:52:35.220 I think there may have been some dialogue in the webcast version that I may have had to go back and share. 00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:41.080 Because within the expert, obviously it's adapted for audio, essentially. 00:52:41.620 --> 00:52:46.600 for those who haven't seen the webcast version or heard our discussion of it, 00:52:46.940 --> 00:52:50.600 is not animation like the animation we're seeing here. 00:52:51.080 --> 00:52:54.060 Because, you know, we're talking about 15 years earlier 00:52:54.060 --> 00:52:56.300 and we're talking about something that went out online 00:52:56.900 --> 00:53:00.420 and it's essentially a bunch of still images. 00:53:01.080 --> 00:53:05.520 So showing that someone is browsing a bookshelf to scan for a particular title 00:53:05.580 --> 00:53:07.820 is beyond what you could actually see on screen. 00:53:08.160 --> 00:53:32.420 And therefore, in adapting it, it has to resort to the kind of devices you get on audio of things like people talking to themselves. And I wonder if I can't remember. It's not that recently that I last listened to it. But I wonder if in that Chris is kind of talking to himself about what he's seeing on the bookshelves. And perhaps in that bit of description, there's some explanation of why he why it takes his interest, because I think you're right. It's just not clear here. 00:53:32.500 --> 00:53:34.620 It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 00:53:35.240 --> 00:53:38.920 The second thing is that Douglas Adams has always written fanciful stuff. 00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:40.560 Right? 00:53:41.260 --> 00:53:46.280 And again, I think it jars a little too much with Doctor of the Universe, but that's a different discussion. 00:53:46.740 --> 00:53:47.220 It works great. 00:53:47.220 --> 00:53:48.420 Because Doctor Who's not fanciful. 00:53:48.860 --> 00:53:58.120 Well, Doctor Who is fanciful, but I don't think an infinite improbability drive falls from a cup of tea is at that level. 00:53:58.220 --> 00:54:00.400 I think when they've taken it at that point, that's the problem. 00:54:00.740 --> 00:54:04.280 A police box that can travel through time and space is... 00:54:04.380 --> 00:54:06.080 Perfectly viable explanation for that. 00:54:06.680 --> 00:54:10.500 I mean, a perfectly reasonable explanation for that in that context. 00:54:10.680 --> 00:54:11.420 Like, okay, camouflage. 00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:13.060 Camouflage is a good answer. 00:54:13.430 --> 00:54:14.120 Tea is not. 00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:16.760 You know, it's like, but anyway, but okay. 00:54:17.240 --> 00:54:17.960 They don't even bother. 00:54:18.120 --> 00:54:20.780 It's just like, it's a cup of tea and you're just, it's because tea. 00:54:21.040 --> 00:54:22.580 Everybody knows improbability in a tea. 00:54:22.740 --> 00:54:23.480 I mean, it's like, no, you don't. 00:54:23.490 --> 00:54:24.280 But all right, fine. 00:54:24.640 --> 00:54:25.460 He writes fanciful stuff. 00:54:26.060 --> 00:54:35.760 But Douglas Adams is also was was a strong advocate of empirical skepticism and science in his personal existence. 00:54:36.180 --> 00:54:41.800 So what he did wrong with carbon dating is so egregious in this story. 00:54:42.140 --> 00:54:49.060 First off, to do carbon dating, you have to be able to measure the atomic material in an object. 00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:53.520 The book, per the dialogue, has no atomic structure. 00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:55.540 You can't carbon date it. 00:54:56.600 --> 00:55:01.820 you can't carbon date something that is synthetic because it has to be organic that had to have 00:55:02.020 --> 00:55:07.280 ingested the atmospheric conditions to get a level of carbon 14 that can be then measured 00:55:07.580 --> 00:55:12.840 after it dies because then it starts decaying so it had to be alive the book is obviously 00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:18.180 artificial the book has no atomic structure you can't carbon date it and you can't carbon date 00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:23.020 something that's non-terrestrial at least you couldn't with terrestrial carbon dating because 00:55:23.040 --> 00:55:29.640 the whole point is that we measure what the carbon 14 level was at that time we don't know what the 00:55:29.650 --> 00:55:36.340 carbon 14 level is on Gallifrey so you couldn't you couldn't make that assessment and and it 00:55:36.410 --> 00:55:42.740 certainly couldn't measure reverse time oh it's negative 20,000 negative 10,000 like wow that one 00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:50.120 just just hits me like a hammer to the skull that is the stupid sign that's on par with kill the 00:55:50.140 --> 00:55:57.020 moon it's so bad it really bugs me watching it i know it's supposed to give you a comedy moment 00:55:57.070 --> 00:56:02.680 about oh time travel it's in the future but it's like no it's just wrong i have my have my say 00:56:02.680 --> 00:56:10.880 there and the third and final one is how long were those guys on the iass station with no minds 00:56:11.620 --> 00:56:16.100 because when the doctor gets there they got long fingernails they got really long fingernails which 00:56:16.120 --> 00:56:20.660 if I'm not mistaken fingernails grow at the same rate that the uh the continents move around here 00:56:20.740 --> 00:56:25.820 which I think is half an inch a year uh of course they're aliens mine grow faster than that I feel 00:56:25.900 --> 00:56:31.360 like mine grow that fast but it's not it's not super fast but their beards I mean I couldn't 00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:37.120 grow that beard in a year I guess some people could the hair length they've been there a long 00:56:37.420 --> 00:56:43.720 time that way they've been there a long time would you agree yes they should be dead why did they not 00:56:43.900 --> 00:56:44.900 starve to death 00:56:47.560 --> 00:56:49.800 I'll grant you that they're not going to have a big pile 00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:50.340 of poo 00:56:51.460 --> 00:56:53.860 in the corner where they're all huddled 00:56:54.020 --> 00:56:55.480 up and just functioning 00:56:55.740 --> 00:56:56.860 but I 00:56:57.740 --> 00:56:59.760 and I thought Skagra just 00:57:00.160 --> 00:57:01.800 came from there isn't that what 00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:03.720 we were told Skagra's spaceship left 00:57:03.860 --> 00:57:05.760 from there and it's a three month journey 00:57:06.220 --> 00:57:07.860 so at most those guys should have been 00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:09.920 there three months since Skagra left 00:57:10.060 --> 00:57:11.660 unless he's capable of time traveling 00:57:12.120 --> 00:57:13.700 it's a return journey isn't it 00:57:13.720 --> 00:57:15.540 wouldn't the return journey be roughly the same? 00:57:15.980 --> 00:57:16.640 So six months. 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:18.360 Yeah, by the time the doctor got there. 00:57:18.370 --> 00:57:20.340 But the doctor didn't take six months to get back. 00:57:20.530 --> 00:57:22.820 He got there in three minutes because of his changes. 00:57:23.700 --> 00:57:24.620 Oh, yes, I see what you mean. 00:57:25.099 --> 00:57:25.820 Three months. 00:57:26.450 --> 00:57:28.660 Unless time travel is involved, it's three months. 00:57:29.339 --> 00:57:31.940 And even three months, thinking they should be dead. 00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:32.380 Anyway. 00:57:32.970 --> 00:57:35.320 And of course, the fact that, yes, their brains have been sucked out 00:57:35.620 --> 00:57:37.760 unless you connect them to someone else's brain 00:57:37.810 --> 00:57:38.520 and then it's still there. 00:57:39.619 --> 00:57:42.200 Okay, do you have anything else about Shada? 00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:45.060 which I genuinely, genuinely hope, 00:57:45.290 --> 00:57:48.540 I genuinely hope that this is the last time we ever review Shana. 00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:52.500 It will probably be the last time I ever watch it. 00:57:53.580 --> 00:57:57.320 It's going to sit unwatched forever on my DVD shelf from now on. 00:57:57.580 --> 00:57:59.480 There's just no way I'm going to watch this one again. 00:58:00.460 --> 00:58:03.360 I think I might give it another watch. 00:58:03.600 --> 00:58:06.720 I'm still, every time I watch it, I'm going to be annoyed about the episodes. 00:58:07.420 --> 00:58:23.540 I'm vaguely hoping that when they come to release the season 17 full box set, which I presume will include another copy of Sharda, hooray, that they will at that point go back and put the beginning and ends of the episodes in. 00:58:23.700 --> 00:58:29.140 Because if I'm going to watch a Tom Baker version of Sharda, it is going to be this one with the animation. 00:58:29.220 --> 00:58:31.800 for all my criticisms of, you know, 00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:35.180 the cutting back and forth and all the rest of it. 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:39.140 It's the best that we've got of that version of the story. 00:58:39.980 --> 00:58:41.820 And if we're wrapping up, 00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:44.960 just so that we end on an up note, 00:58:46.780 --> 00:58:51.060 the score for this is superb, in my opinion, 00:58:51.240 --> 00:58:53.660 because one thing about it is, 00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:57.100 I don't, as far as I know, I'm pretty sure about this, 00:58:57.240 --> 00:59:06.360 When they made it back in the 70s, they wouldn't have got to putting a score to it because that would have happened in post-production. 00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:07.280 They didn't finish production. 00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:11.980 So there's the VHS version, which has the Kef McCulloch score on it. 00:59:12.240 --> 00:59:13.840 Not my favorite score. 00:59:14.160 --> 00:59:15.460 Kef McCulloch can't do anything. 00:59:15.520 --> 00:59:16.340 He can't do good scores. 00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:21.480 Yes, because I'm not necessarily a McCulloch aficionado. 00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:25.860 Whereas, and I hadn't looked up who'd written this score. 00:59:26.520 --> 00:59:27.060 Mark Ayers. 00:59:27.120 --> 00:59:52.820 I know I have now, but the point when I put it in, it just immediately struck me that not only was it new and properly, you know, it runs across the animation and everything, but actually it's the kind of music that I would happily listen to as a separate soundtrack on its own. 00:59:53.260 --> 00:59:59.660 and yet it suits the episode to a tee you know it fits the ear and everything so absolutely bravo 00:59:59.900 --> 01:00:06.500 if there is one thing that has unquestionably been worthwhile in producing this new set it is 01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:11.680 it is this fabulous new score i'll i'll say i did look up some information on the score 01:00:12.220 --> 01:00:18.339 and yeah mark hares who was apparently friends with dudley simpson uh contacted him before he 01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:24.060 died to see if he could get him to work on it found out found out that he was too ill to do the 01:00:24.200 --> 01:00:31.080 work so he did it hence the dedication well and he died i guess probably during the the process as 01:00:31.180 --> 01:00:38.340 well and um mark here's deliberately tried to go into the style of dudley simpson yeah because i'm 01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:43.780 not aware i definitely can feel some of um i can feel some of city of death in it it's a little 01:00:44.220 --> 01:00:53.600 evocative of city of death so it it i agree it does have the feel for it is not as awful as the 01:00:53.760 --> 01:01:01.480 dudley simpson scores from that era because i think he's instrumented it differently i'm not a 01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:08.120 fan of dudley simpson i i i know i i think this score is is instrumented in instruments is that 01:01:08.300 --> 01:01:09.760 I don't know what the word is. 01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:11.780 Anyway, I know exactly what you mean. 01:01:13.040 --> 01:01:17.140 Yes, well, the instrumentation is actually quite modern sounding. 01:01:17.480 --> 01:01:20.080 So I didn't listen to it thinking, 01:01:20.600 --> 01:01:22.760 oh my goodness, did they find some original music 01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:24.380 that had somehow been written for this? 01:01:24.500 --> 01:01:24.880 I didn't. 01:01:26.060 --> 01:01:28.060 It sounds too modern for that. 01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:32.160 But at the same time, it has the sensibility to fit 01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:34.420 with the era and the story and everything. 01:01:34.540 --> 01:01:37.480 And I'm not aware that Marquez has scored anything. 01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:40.940 I know he worked for the Radiophonic Workshop 01:01:41.530 --> 01:01:44.700 during certainly the late 80s on the show. 01:01:44.990 --> 01:01:45.360 Am I right? 01:01:45.730 --> 01:01:47.180 So he would have been doing... 01:01:47.180 --> 01:01:48.580 And then he's done a huge amount 01:01:48.820 --> 01:01:50.040 with the restoration team, etc. 01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:53.500 But I didn't know that he had done any other compositions. 01:01:54.350 --> 01:01:54.980 And this is great. 01:01:55.240 --> 01:01:58.560 Trying to see if I can find anything on him. 01:01:59.100 --> 01:02:02.660 As a composer, he provided incidental music on Doctor Who. 01:02:05.700 --> 01:02:07.780 Oh, no, not good. 01:02:08.660 --> 01:02:09.940 No, no, no, no 01:02:10.780 --> 01:02:13.160 Two out of three I really don't like 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:14.800 And the third I kind of don't like 01:02:15.040 --> 01:02:16.020 Greatest Show in the Galaxy 01:02:17.140 --> 01:02:18.560 Ghostlight, Curse of Fenric 01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:21.640 So he was composer on those ones? 01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:22.240 Yeah 01:02:23.660 --> 01:02:26.560 I will re-listen to those with some interest 01:02:26.900 --> 01:02:29.140 I mean they're not as bad as Kef McCullough 01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:30.280 I'll give them that 01:02:30.540 --> 01:02:30.920 They're not 01:02:31.200 --> 01:02:34.280 But he is thankfully not gone with that era sound either 01:02:34.520 --> 01:02:37.820 He is definitely gone with something a little more 01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:44.100 the the the kef mcculloch sharder score is very much not any attempt to be a 1970s score 01:02:44.540 --> 01:02:51.040 no yeah i i i think they did as well as they could have done um in putting it in there i i i don't 01:02:51.040 --> 01:02:55.600 know that i would thought i was wanted to rush out and buy the soundtrack but heck i'll go out 01:02:55.620 --> 01:03:02.260 and buy dudley's on some soundtracks uh of doctor who so even though i don't like them i'll do it 01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:05.720 Because they evoke, they evoke Doctor Who, right? 01:03:05.820 --> 01:03:08.120 There is that, there's that emotional attachment. 01:03:08.190 --> 01:03:10.800 They have, you know, I think the only one that I just, 01:03:11.110 --> 01:03:13.700 I can't listen to are... 01:03:13.700 --> 01:03:14.260 Cary Blyton. 01:03:15.720 --> 01:03:16.320 Sea Devils. 01:03:17.220 --> 01:03:18.560 That's Cary Blyton, isn't it? 01:03:18.820 --> 01:03:19.460 I'm not sure. 01:03:19.720 --> 01:03:22.260 And then there's one, and I know I'll get hate from this. 01:03:22.640 --> 01:03:26.740 It's, wow, can't think of the name of the episode. 01:03:27.040 --> 01:03:28.460 It's extremely popular. 01:03:28.510 --> 01:03:29.540 I can't stand it. 01:03:30.240 --> 01:03:32.240 Part of the reason I can't stand it is... 01:03:32.260 --> 01:03:32.600 Caves of Andrazani. 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:33.900 Caves of Andrazani. 01:03:34.420 --> 01:03:34.500 Yeah. 01:03:35.180 --> 01:03:36.000 Horrible soundtrack. 01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:38.040 I can't remember who did that. 01:03:38.300 --> 01:03:39.200 I don't know who did it, 01:03:39.210 --> 01:03:42.440 but it's like listening to somebody's fingernails on a chalkboard to me. 01:03:44.120 --> 01:03:45.000 It's, no. 01:03:45.700 --> 01:03:47.880 Anyhow, but this is not like that. 01:03:48.160 --> 01:03:48.780 No, no, no. 01:03:49.020 --> 01:03:49.760 I think it's great. 01:03:49.900 --> 01:03:55.820 The other thing to mention in the very much plus column is, of course, 01:03:57.220 --> 01:04:00.640 I've got to say Tom Baker cameo because obviously Tom Baker is. 01:04:00.860 --> 01:04:01.980 Oh, how could we forget that? 01:04:02.100 --> 01:04:10.100 of this but the you know the the 83 year old tom baker appearing at the end there um which i i knew 01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:14.660 was coming up i mean it was it was uh quite widely publicized at the time so i think unless you 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.480 unless you got a pre-order and watched it on the day it arrived it wouldn't have been a surprise 01:04:18.610 --> 01:04:24.420 to anyone but nevertheless it was just really really lovely it was a surprise to me really i 01:04:24.460 --> 01:04:29.220 didn't i didn't uh i didn't fantastic i didn't know it was coming i when the tardis appeared 01:04:29.580 --> 01:04:35.120 uh the console and it was an actual tardis console i'm like huh because that that there hasn't been 01:04:35.300 --> 01:04:41.060 any tardis footage yeah something was wrong there and then when they showed his head under it it's 01:04:41.180 --> 01:04:46.400 like why would they why would they do the scene and have him hanging under the maybe he's never 01:04:46.420 --> 01:04:50.740 gonna pop his head out of the console and just talk from under there it's like why would they 01:04:50.740 --> 01:04:56.340 go to the expense of doing this and yeah well it's pity they didn't get someone who was slightly 01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:01.940 more convincing body double I thought but yeah also I although I although I was quite happy with 01:05:02.020 --> 01:05:06.400 having him under the console because it's a doctorish thing to do and the shot is framed 01:05:06.680 --> 01:05:15.580 in a plausible way having Romana quote outside the door shouting through really didn't work for 01:05:15.580 --> 01:05:22.880 the length of time she had to I thought you know why why not get a straw hat and a cotton dress and 01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:28.000 a body double for her and shoot her from behind you know shoot her over the hat or something so 01:05:28.140 --> 01:05:34.280 all you all you kind of see is the brim but yeah yeah but anyway it it was worth it it was worth 01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:41.240 it for for that laugh yeah it as i recall the ending of the story is just the doctor 01:05:42.080 --> 01:05:47.480 reminiscing about the fact that someday that's what people will say about me yes right there's 01:05:47.500 --> 01:05:49.520 There's no aspect of it actually getting old. 01:05:50.500 --> 01:05:51.240 I will say this. 01:05:51.500 --> 01:05:55.900 No, it does say it because the line is something like in 200 years. 01:05:55.900 --> 01:05:57.480 Oh, no, no, no, no, physically getting old. 01:05:57.840 --> 01:05:59.640 And they'll say, what a nice old man. 01:05:59.980 --> 01:06:00.540 Yeah, no, no, no. 01:06:00.600 --> 01:06:04.600 I mean, that was the actual ending of the show, that line. 01:06:05.020 --> 01:06:10.100 But there is nothing in the story about him physically being transformed into an old man at that moment. 01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:10.920 That's just. 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:12.360 Oh, no, that's the next story. 01:06:12.680 --> 01:06:13.500 Yeah, that's the next story. 01:06:13.660 --> 01:06:17.760 And I got to say, they did a more convincing job on this than they did in the next story. 01:06:18.120 --> 01:06:18.580 I don't know. 01:06:18.580 --> 01:06:19.840 I thought it was pretty unrealistic. 01:06:22.220 --> 01:06:26.500 I mean, he definitely looks more like an old man in this one than he does in Leisure Hive. 01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:27.920 Well, yeah. 01:06:28.200 --> 01:06:29.840 But they didn't age him up. 01:06:30.140 --> 01:06:32.320 They just got him back. 01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:33.120 They just got him back. 01:06:33.300 --> 01:06:35.120 It just happens to be 40 years later. 01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:36.320 So there you go. 01:06:37.340 --> 01:06:40.920 I think it's a happy fit with the line. 01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:47.400 It's obviously kind of at the end, it fits with the now on BBC One pre-title sequence 01:06:47.780 --> 01:06:53.800 and the fact that we've just watched a whole serial where we know that it's switching back and forth from animation. 01:06:54.100 --> 01:06:58.480 And therefore, in some sense, that has in itself broken the illusion. 01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:02.720 And so this is just a nod to the fact that it is an illusion. 01:07:03.200 --> 01:07:05.000 And it's just so charming. 01:07:05.220 --> 01:07:11.280 Yeah. Funny thing is, I think the next stop is that he goes to become the curator of the Black Archive. 01:07:11.300 --> 01:07:11.840 at that point. 01:07:13.080 --> 01:07:13.520 Anyway. 01:07:14.140 --> 01:07:14.380 All right. 01:07:14.450 --> 01:07:16.040 Well, Simon, thank you. 01:07:16.380 --> 01:07:17.420 It's a pleasure as always. 01:07:17.940 --> 01:07:19.800 And I think, you know, 01:07:19.900 --> 01:07:21.940 this is slotted in as a special episode 01:07:22.240 --> 01:07:23.080 somewhere along the line. 01:07:23.230 --> 01:07:24.920 I can say almost with certainly 01:07:25.160 --> 01:07:27.240 that the next animated Doctor Who story 01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:28.220 we're going to talk about 01:07:28.700 --> 01:07:30.660 is going to be the Macra Terror. 01:07:30.700 --> 01:07:31.520 Macra Terror. 01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:32.300 Yay! 01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:34.520 This is what I'm looking forward to. 01:07:35.820 --> 01:07:36.720 In a big way. 01:07:37.220 --> 01:07:37.880 I forgot one. 01:07:38.020 --> 01:07:38.940 I forgot one other thing, 01:07:39.070 --> 01:07:40.460 which is that there is that 01:07:41.959 --> 01:07:46.680 between this 2017 Sharda and the 2003 webcast Sharda, 01:07:46.750 --> 01:07:48.300 there is one common cast member. 01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:49.240 Romana? 01:07:49.660 --> 01:07:49.740 Nope. 01:07:50.140 --> 01:07:50.580 Oh, yes. 01:07:51.460 --> 01:07:52.980 Okay, so there's two common cast members. 01:07:52.980 --> 01:07:53.580 I didn't think of that. 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:54.600 Yes, of course. 01:07:55.120 --> 01:07:55.820 Oh, yeah, okay. 01:07:56.040 --> 01:07:57.380 That makes that rather less special. 01:07:57.890 --> 01:08:00.940 I know I spotted that the Krags were played by Barnaby Edwards 01:08:01.110 --> 01:08:01.780 in both cases. 01:08:02.520 --> 01:08:03.180 Oh, okay. 01:08:03.230 --> 01:08:04.300 I forgot about Romana. 01:08:04.380 --> 01:08:05.600 Of course Romana is in it. 01:08:05.780 --> 01:08:07.340 Yes, so, yes. 01:08:08.160 --> 01:08:08.520 Oh, well. 01:08:08.980 --> 01:08:09.360 Oh, well. 01:08:12.420 --> 01:08:13.380 and canine 01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:14.300 no no it's a different canine 01:08:15.640 --> 01:08:18.100 it is a different canine which was part of my thing 01:08:18.319 --> 01:08:19.140 there we go 01:08:19.859 --> 01:08:22.319 well listeners I do hope you'll join us all again 01:08:22.440 --> 01:08:24.240 next time on Fusion Patrol 01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:31.620 you've been listening to Fusion Patrol 01:08:31.980 --> 01:08:33.420 a listener supported podcast 01:08:34.279 --> 01:08:35.700 find out how you can be a sponsor 01:08:35.779 --> 01:08:37.600 and get early access to all episodes 01:08:38.080 --> 01:08:39.240 and more at 01:08:39.259 --> 01:08:41.440 patreon.com slash fusion patrol. 01:08:43.390 --> 01:08:46.160 Come join the conversation on Facebook or Twitter. 01:08:48.240 --> 01:08:50.799 All episodes are available at fusion patrol.com. 01:08:52.240 --> 01:08:55.359 Our music is fight the future by Amber Wolf. 01:08:56.859 --> 01:08:59.200 This has been a lone locust production.