WEBVTT 00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:11.280 You're listening to Fusion Patrol, a listener-supported podcast. 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:18.800 Each week we take a single episode of a science fiction TV series movie or audio 00:00:19.220 --> 00:00:22.280 and overanalyze it to within an inch of its life. 00:00:23.880 --> 00:00:25.140 Welcome to the discussion. 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:32.419 Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. I'm Eugene. 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:33.860 And I'm Simon. 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:40.360 And tonight we are looking at Doctor Who Season 2025, Episode 2, Lux. 00:00:41.120 --> 00:00:48.080 Disclaimer. I have a cold. I am on cold medicine. I do not feel well. My patience and tolerance 00:00:48.500 --> 00:00:54.100 is on a knife edge. In editing, before I release this episode, I promise to bleep 00:00:54.120 --> 00:00:59.600 all the profanities, of which I am certain there will be some. However, that is not necessarily 00:00:59.900 --> 00:01:03.820 intended to imply that the episode Lux has achieved a whole new level of awfulness that 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:08.500 warrants profanity, just that my shields are lowered. They certainly were when I wrote this 00:01:08.600 --> 00:01:15.120 synopsis. Episode Synopsis. At a movie theater in 1952 Miami, Florida, a shaft of moonlight 00:01:15.520 --> 00:01:20.560 bounces off an overly polished spoon, finding its way into the bright light of the movie projector, 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:27.480 and soon, Mr. Ring-A-Ding, a cartoon character, has come to life to cause mischief. The Doctor, 00:01:27.660 --> 00:01:33.800 unable to get Belinda back to Earth on May 24th, 2025, rather than take her back to May 23rd and 00:01:34.060 --> 00:01:40.540 hang out for a day, uses a device from the TARDIS to effectively triangulate a path back to a desired 00:01:40.740 --> 00:01:44.860 date and time. Let's hope Teak and Ian and Barbara never learn that this was an option. 00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:50.560 The process involves landing in random places and getting a reading back to the desired date 00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:56.920 time. First stop, 1952, Miami, Florida. What a coincidence. It's not long before the doctor and 00:01:57.020 --> 00:02:01.700 Belinda have learned of the mystery of the locked theater and the mystery of the 15 people who 00:02:01.860 --> 00:02:06.180 disappeared. They also learn that Mr. Pi, the theater's projectionist, is apparently 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:11.300 locked up inside for the last three months, presumably living off a diet of celluloid. 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:16.520 They investigate, trying to communicate with Mr. Pi, but what they find is Mr. Ring-a-Ding, 00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:22.380 who soon reveals himself to be Lux, another of the f***ing so-called gods, and he's about to do 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:28.440 something nasty to them. So Mr. Pye starts the Mr. Ring-a-Ding song and forces Lux to sing along 00:02:29.320 --> 00:02:33.740 because it eats the crap out of me. They run to see Pye and realize that Lux is keeping him 00:02:33.980 --> 00:02:39.260 compliant by bringing a movie of his dead wife to life. Song's over and Lux converts the Doctor 00:02:39.260 --> 00:02:45.319 and Belinda into cartoons, but they soon overcome their cartoon limitations by emoting. They then 00:02:45.420 --> 00:02:50.160 muck about with the frames of the film they're on and escape back into the theater, where the 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:55.480 New York segregation police have come to arrest the doctor and Belinda for being people of color 00:02:55.740 --> 00:03:01.240 in a whites-only theater. The next two sequences prove once and for all that writers like to have 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:06.620 it both ways. First, the doctor uses careful attention to detail to spot continuity problems 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:11.380 in the police officer's uniform, showing how clever the doctor, and by extension the writer, 00:03:11.460 --> 00:03:15.700 is. Realizing that they are still trapped, they push their way into a small living room 00:03:16.140 --> 00:03:21.240 full of Doctor Who fans, where they show how tedious and annoying fans, paying close attention 00:03:21.310 --> 00:03:28.660 to detail, are not so much clever as annoying. At first, the Doctor and Belinda are being convinced 00:03:28.780 --> 00:03:33.660 that maybe they are actually characters in a TV show, but soon the fans point out that they 00:03:33.860 --> 00:03:39.019 haven't got last names, and they help the Doctor and Belinda back to reality, even knowing they 00:03:39.040 --> 00:03:43.780 will cease to exist. I mean, obviously, right? Fans have no life outside of watching Doctor Who. 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:48.880 Back in the real world, Lux wants to suck dry all the Doctors by generational energy 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.300 and become a real boy, but instead, they get Mr. Pi to blow up the film store, 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.940 exposing Lux to sunlight and causing him to expand until he is no more. The people who 00:03:59.160 --> 00:04:02.999 disappeared return, the Doctor and Belinda leave, and Mrs. Flood shows up for another 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:10.580 ham-fisted tag scene. The end. So how'd you like Lux? Well, possibly better than you did by the 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:19.920 sound of it. I truly do want to say that I will swear at this episode, that does not mean I think 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:25.900 it's the worst thing they've ever done. It's not that bad. Bits of it annoy the hell out of me. 00:04:26.220 --> 00:04:31.919 Yeah. I mean, I think there are bits of it that I, well, I don't, I mean, I don't know how much 00:04:31.940 --> 00:04:40.340 it matters it's it's it's by no means kind of perfect i haven't been converted to rtd writing 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:48.420 for shooty gatwell or anything but the bits that are definitely underdeveloped in this don't matter 00:04:48.580 --> 00:04:57.579 very much and the bits that are quite interesting and fun kept me amused for the length of the 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:07.140 episode and part of that is the kind of willingness to do something a bit different and so i my kind 00:05:07.140 --> 00:05:16.880 of the the fact that for example mr ring a ding is pretty annoying i'm kind of willing to overlook 00:05:17.260 --> 00:05:25.399 that for the fact that i mean firstly he's not in it that much because presumably animating is 00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:27.100 a bit expensive 00:05:28.190 --> 00:05:28.680 but also 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:31.340 it's playing around 00:05:31.780 --> 00:05:31.960 with 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:34.400 the 00:05:35.580 --> 00:05:36.160 idea of 00:05:36.960 --> 00:05:38.800 fictionality. I think my biggest 00:05:39.140 --> 00:05:40.520 complaint is I thought they could have 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:43.160 that idea in itself 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:44.920 there is more mileage 00:05:45.200 --> 00:05:46.800 in and so 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:49.040 there are things that I would 00:05:49.080 --> 00:05:50.460 like to see in this episode that 00:05:51.479 --> 00:05:53.060 kind of got missed out but 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:55.380 for what it was 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:57.660 An enjoyable episode, as far as I'm concerned. 00:05:58.140 --> 00:06:02.000 I have to say, you just brought something to my mind. They spent money on animating this when 00:06:02.100 --> 00:06:06.200 they could have been working on the Dalek Master Plan. So now I'm less inclined. 00:06:07.880 --> 00:06:13.500 I was absolutely thinking that, you know, if we weren't already discussing this episode, 00:06:14.380 --> 00:06:21.500 we would have to discuss it on the basis that we have on the podcast talked about every animated 00:06:21.520 --> 00:06:28.100 episode of Doctor Who that has been released whether it's reconstruction whether it's you 00:06:28.100 --> 00:06:36.820 know a new webcast a big finish with animation or or whatever it may be here or or indeed the 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:43.880 the what was it Dreamland and the Infinite Quest the kind of David Tennant era episodes where they 00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:50.580 made special extra Doctor Who episodes that were that were kind of purely animated and I guess 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:56.680 you've got to count this one as an episode with animation in right i mean there are sequences 00:06:59.180 --> 00:07:05.380 yeah no i uh again as you mentioned this because i didn't really give him this much thought 00:07:05.830 --> 00:07:09.760 i also think when they animated the doctor and bolinda instead of going the scooby-doo style 00:07:09.850 --> 00:07:18.740 they should have gone they should have gone animated recreation style oh yeah well yeah 00:07:19.020 --> 00:07:23.340 I mean, I think that would have pleased the fans. 00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:27.220 I mean, us as well as the in-show fans. 00:07:27.880 --> 00:07:35.040 I'm not sure how much the regular Disney Plus audience would have appreciated that. 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:39.380 I can't believe the Disney Plus audience is watching, so I don't think that's an issue. 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:47.520 One thing I do want to say, we had this discussion last week, and I want to bring it up again 00:07:48.140 --> 00:07:56.760 because we talked about i i felt last week's episode was talking to the audience not in the 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:01.580 storytellers but like in that meta sort of way okay i was saying he's given a he's given a finger 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:07.300 here and there you can't say he wasn't talking to the audience in this one i mean no absolutely 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:12.720 there's absolutely more of that in this episode and it's just like well it's explicit in it i 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:18.800 deliberate yeah yeah i think it was deliberate last time too i think i think i think that what 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:28.340 this episode does that is unusual and different is that it explicitly calls out what is going on 00:08:28.490 --> 00:08:36.599 it's not it's not a nod and a wink it's the doctor kind of being told he's fictional which 00:08:37.289 --> 00:08:41.440 you know is going to be a shock to a lot of the viewers but although i do hope all that 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:47.760 merchandise is available the tello shirt the unit shirt maybe even the maybe even the meep shirt 00:08:48.330 --> 00:08:52.700 i think they're missing a thing if they don't if they don't have those shirts available for purchase 00:08:53.500 --> 00:09:00.140 like now i i think yeah we can we can file that along file that along with the polish polish 00:09:00.420 --> 00:09:04.520 robot of things that were definitely there to be sold but i went and looked i couldn't find the 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:10.360 shirts at least not on amazon have you found a polish polish robot yet no i didn't even buy 00:09:10.900 --> 00:09:11.800 I don't want that. 00:09:12.700 --> 00:09:13.380 It's too annoying. 00:09:13.590 --> 00:09:14.880 It probably makes that noise, too. 00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:16.120 Well, I would say. 00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:30.580 I don't know about you, because you're younger than me, but when I was a kid, you know, you got toys and maybe some action figures, or mostly in my case, it was plastic dinosaurs, but they didn't do anything, right? 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:36.700 And then as I got older and as toys got more sophisticated, then they started putting like 00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:37.800 voice boxes in them. 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.080 So they say something, do something. 00:09:41.920 --> 00:09:42.720 I hated those toys. 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.960 I don't know why they thought, I don't know why they thought, because what it does is 00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:50.160 it, in a way it feels like it limits your imagination. 00:09:51.180 --> 00:09:51.400 Yes. 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:53.660 You know, it does, it does this thing. 00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:55.140 You can't make it do whatever you want. 00:09:55.140 --> 00:09:58.300 I would take the batteries out of toys like that and just, you know, try it once. 00:09:58.360 --> 00:09:58.720 Go, oh yeah. 00:09:58.800 --> 00:09:59.200 Okay, fine. 00:09:59.240 --> 00:09:59.340 Whatever. 00:09:59.660 --> 00:10:00.000 Chuck it out. 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:00.320 And then. 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:23.940 I never like it. Polish Polish is like that. The robot. I have no interest in that also because I already have a floor mopping robot, but and they're crap. They don't work. And I don't think that a Polish Polish wouldn't work. I need to be in the wing. So anyway, I will say this in the positives column. Belinda is much less obnoxious in this episode. 00:10:25.100 --> 00:10:35.840 she manages to convey her desire to go back home right now much more humanly whereas in the last 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:42.280 episode i just felt she was just being obstreperous yeah i mean i think there's there's an element of 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:48.360 there's intended to be a development in their kind of mutual understanding in this 00:10:49.090 --> 00:10:55.060 i i'm not sure that was good because i think she was intended to be much more kind of impatient 00:10:55.080 --> 00:11:05.560 last time round and now there's a more of a kind of mutual respect i guess yeah i i i you know i 00:11:05.800 --> 00:11:12.560 we're we were seeing belinda in i've been kidnapped and taken to an alien planet mode and i'm not sure 00:11:12.680 --> 00:11:21.200 that i felt like her intransigence or whatever we want to call it really quite i don't know 00:11:21.220 --> 00:11:28.360 maybe she just was in shock and that was but i know well i i mean the other the other dimension 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:34.560 to that that i felt was that was the kind of tonal tonal thing with the previous episode where she 00:11:34.660 --> 00:11:44.460 was very flippant it was clearly it was it was a kind of comedy storyline and so having any kind 00:11:44.500 --> 00:11:54.180 of real drama or jeopardy to her sense of being stuck in an alien future or whatever was was kind 00:11:54.180 --> 00:12:02.640 of hard to get a handle on because of that yeah i i i think the the tone of this one is a bit 00:12:02.930 --> 00:12:08.639 different i don't know what you could have done last time i mean that she demands the doctor takes 00:12:08.660 --> 00:12:13.960 home as if it's the doctor the doctor who is responsible for her being there which 00:12:14.460 --> 00:12:21.260 obviously it isn't okay you can kind of i suppose you you can put that down to to kind of this is 00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:28.640 another kind of comedic aspect to the storyline i think what we've got in this episode is much more 00:12:29.180 --> 00:12:37.179 it's it's a kind of shift to she wants to go home because she misses people she misses her life etc 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:43.400 etc and she recognizes that the doctor is genuinely trying to get her home and that's 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:50.820 where I guess her perception of it shifts could be it could be although you know it's it doesn't 00:12:50.890 --> 00:12:56.740 really seem like there's much time between last episode and no no but I think I think it's the 00:12:56.860 --> 00:13:01.359 it's the kind of passage of what happens in this episode I think at the beginning she's a little bit 00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:07.840 impatient still she's like really you want to go and investigate what's going on here she knows 00:13:07.900 --> 00:13:11.860 she obviously knows him well enough to see what's going on with that but you want to go and 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:19.840 investigate here and then by the end of it there is a there is a you know she's she's seen him in 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:27.779 as it were a mortal situation and there is a different dynamic there now i think 00:13:27.800 --> 00:13:50.540 I did refer to it in the, and my notes are way more scattered than usual, if that is even possible. But I did make note of it in the recap. But I just want to point this out. I think it's funny that, you know, a good writer, say a mystery writer, let's use a mystery as an example. 00:13:50.880 --> 00:14:06.760 They write a novel and they have to put the information in front of you so that when the super brilliant detective at the end notices it, points it out, you go, oh, Miss Marple was, oh, yeah, yeah, got it. 00:14:06.900 --> 00:14:08.440 She's smarter than me. 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:09.140 I didn't see it. 00:14:09.590 --> 00:14:10.420 Or maybe you did. 00:14:10.580 --> 00:14:14.460 Or, you know, you have an attention to detail. 00:14:15.210 --> 00:14:18.060 And the hero has to have an attention to detail. 00:14:18.420 --> 00:14:33.080 And they cheat a bit of that on Sherlock Holmes books, but because the point is the attention to detail in a different way. But in a lot of other mystery stories, you need to have that. And of course, we see that in this book, the doctor, by being clever, spots the New York police officer. 00:14:33.520 --> 00:14:43.620 But it is a little bit of a unfair situation when the fans actually have a stronger attention to detail than the writer does. 00:14:44.310 --> 00:14:45.420 And they get annoyed by it. 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:47.840 And I think the writers do get annoyed by it. 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:49.240 Because they're nitpicking. 00:14:50.400 --> 00:14:53.380 And particularly RTD, because he has no eye for detail. 00:14:54.500 --> 00:14:57.600 He's doing the broad strokes to get from A to B to C. 00:14:58.300 --> 00:15:24.960 So I don't know him using that as a, as a way to show that the doctor is clever is, is not really, I don't know. It, it was definitely rubbed me the wrong way. That was, I saw that and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Attention to detail. You're gonna, you're gonna use attention to detail. Oh, Moffat attention to detail. I can see RTD. No. 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:31.700 Well, yes, I mean, I think of Moffat as a farce writer, but I think in a way you're right that there is a… 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:33.760 Farce requires attention to detail. 00:15:34.820 --> 00:15:49.360 Well, it does. And in that sense, kind of mystery writing of the kind of, I mean, I'm not a particular fan of it, but of the kind of Agatha Christie style is all about that. 00:15:49.400 --> 00:15:56.960 It's much about writing a puzzle as it is about writing an interesting story. 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:09.780 I think what's going on here is much more about the lucid dreaming aspect of this. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:15.040 It's the, do you know when you're still in the fiction or not? 00:16:15.500 --> 00:16:20.960 Well, I'm increasingly beginning to think that they have been in a fiction last season and this season. 00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:26.620 That this is all one big extra meta thing. 00:16:27.340 --> 00:16:30.280 And when we come out the other end, I don't know. 00:16:30.900 --> 00:16:31.540 I doubt very much. 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:32.920 Dallas. 00:16:33.640 --> 00:16:33.980 Yeah. 00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:36.300 I don't know if they're going to undo Schutte completely. 00:16:36.650 --> 00:16:45.240 But I don't know what I would think about it if they undid the... 00:16:45.260 --> 00:16:53.380 by generation thing which as i may have mentioned i am not a fan of i'd be happy if they undid it 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:58.520 to be quite honest but but i don't know yeah i kind of think i i think anything like that would 00:16:58.640 --> 00:17:05.120 kind of massively miss the point because obviously doctor who is is a fiction so you can do an 00:17:05.260 --> 00:17:11.640 episode like this and you can play around with it and you can have him step out of a tv you know 00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:17.520 with the Doctor Who logo on it and sit around having a conversation with fans of the show 00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:24.699 about the show itself and make jokes about whether there are better episodes than Blink, 00:17:25.420 --> 00:17:27.620 which, you know, again, coming back to what you were saying last time. 00:17:27.620 --> 00:17:29.700 Obviously there are. Inferno, but those people are too young to know that. 00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:38.060 Well, I think, yes, there are better episodes of Doctor Who than Blink. I don't know if I 00:17:38.080 --> 00:17:42.380 would say inferno is better than blink but certainly certainly none of the suggestions 00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:49.080 that the doctor made were were going to carry and and you know rtd to his credit is acknowledging 00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:54.660 that and again paying tribute to i'm seeing a pattern here there's like the moffatism's last 00:17:54.820 --> 00:18:01.220 time this time he's explicitly paying tribute to moffat's fan favorite episode okay but i have to 00:18:01.220 --> 00:18:06.780 say how do you know how does the doctor know what episode was called blink it's a very good question 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.980 I mean, it could be Time of Angels. That had a lot of Blink stuff in it. 00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:20.600 And I need to rewatch Blink to double check this. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in Blink that 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:25.500 explicitly says that he hasn't met the Weeping Angels before. I think there may be something 00:18:25.560 --> 00:18:30.140 that suggests that he has met the Weeping Angels before. So that suggests that it's not the first 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:37.360 time certainly in big finnish terms earlier versions of the doctor have met the weeping 00:18:37.620 --> 00:18:44.040 angels so you're quite right that you know there's multiple things that that could mean to him even 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:51.300 if he gets the illusion what does you know what does the title blink mean no just i mean just to 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:57.780 just to kind of finish that thought of that you can you can do an episode like this you you you 00:18:57.800 --> 00:19:09.560 can't do it too often but i i don't think that you can tie it in to more than it just being a kind of 00:19:10.879 --> 00:19:17.680 bottle episode it's it's a it's a one-off a throwaway a nod and a wink for a bit of fun 00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:23.760 i i think he's going to throw away the whole two seasons i began to think that it's it's going to 00:19:23.780 --> 00:19:30.020 be i don't know another one of the gods the the storyteller or who is the master of the land of 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:37.620 fiction or i don't know something now so here's here's the thing that the thing that might support 00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:45.620 your argument there is the thing that i felt was the the missing thing from this episode and 00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:53.740 maybe that's the reason it was missing given that you know rtd is obviously has rediscovered a deep 00:19:53.760 --> 00:20:00.640 of continuity you know given that iplayer is literally calling this season two of the 2023 00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:06.620 doctor who season and yet rtd is merrily writing an episode we're saying what's your favorite 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:13.680 episode of this show it's like it's an episode from what iplayer now considers to be a previous 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:22.220 show but yeah the land of fiction the land of fiction should have been part of what this story 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:32.000 was because that is the kind of previous time when the show has come close to exploring whether 00:20:32.070 --> 00:20:37.100 it might be fictional and what it means to be fictional and all these kind of things and you 00:20:37.100 --> 00:20:42.760 know big big finish have done something that i thought was very close to where the doctor talks 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:52.200 to the fans in the legend of the cybermen where that they he literally that there's a there's a 00:20:52.200 --> 00:21:00.280 in a recording studio where they're in the sound booth listening to Nick Briggs directing someone 00:21:00.500 --> 00:21:05.440 or something like that it you know it's literally kind of stepping out of the show and looking at it 00:21:05.800 --> 00:21:10.340 looking at itself being made which is you know as near as damn it to what's being done here but 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:18.700 that's done within the context of the land of fiction and so I don't know why you'd go as close 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:26.660 to that as this does without even if it's just a nod for those who would recognize it 00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:32.340 kind of acknowledging there is a connection here because as you say if we're getting into 00:21:32.910 --> 00:21:38.800 and you know the gods of rtd are not new obviously they're not the celestial toy maker 00:21:39.610 --> 00:21:46.360 first appeared in the 1960s but you know that it the master of the land of fiction is exactly one 00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:55.260 of those kinds of powerful figures that operate beyond the kind of laws of physics and causality 00:21:55.320 --> 00:22:02.820 of our own universe. Yes, but does the master of the land of fiction have to follow a set of 00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:08.700 honor-bound rules? I don't think it's described in those terms, but actually I think yes. 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:13.780 I think that is... Isn't the master of the land of fiction actually a guy stuck in a computer 00:22:13.780 --> 00:22:19.120 and that the land of fiction really isn't the real world i think you i think 00:22:20.820 --> 00:22:24.140 so i mean i need i need to i need to watch the real world because 00:22:24.800 --> 00:22:27.780 if you if you're talking about episodes that might be better than blink 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:33.080 i might put the mind of up there is terrific i thought he was actually human 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:38.900 yeah he was a guy got stuck in a machine of some kind yeah yeah yeah he's trying to get the doctor 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:44.820 to take his place and yeah yeah but you know those are the those are the kind of god origin 00:22:45.140 --> 00:22:50.160 stories because fundamentally you're dealing with the same thing by the time someone has those kind 00:22:50.530 --> 00:22:57.500 of powers to shape the the universe that everyone else exists within so what you know what do you 00:22:57.500 --> 00:23:05.180 mean by god i i i don't mind whether you know whether this story is connected to the the kind 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:15.380 of god stories that have have kind of followed on from the salt in the wild blue yonder this is 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:23.140 this is the the less possibly the least offensive of all of them for me well it felt to be over the 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:28.120 quickest and seemed to have the least amount of peril well that well that might be that might be 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:36.900 why i have i don't know whether this is me kind of like so i think the first episode of of the 00:23:37.020 --> 00:23:44.840 fusion patrol podcast that i i ever joined you on was when we were discussing the way in which 00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:51.580 in the and this is going back 15 years or whatever the way in which in the early revival of the show 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:59.420 the 2005 revival of the show, RTD followed quite a sort of standard template for his seasons. There 00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:04.640 would be a present day episode on the Powell estate or, you know, or with the family of the 00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:10.200 companion at least. And then there would be an episode set in the past or, no, an episode set 00:24:10.210 --> 00:24:14.820 in the future and then an episode set in the past. And then there'd be a couple of episodes where 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:20.140 they'd bring back some old monsters and you could, you know, within 13 episodes, there'd be some 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:28.960 variation but fundamentally he created a template that acted as a framework for him I think and when 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:34.900 he came back to the show I was very curious I did mention it I think last year whether he would 00:24:35.060 --> 00:24:40.160 follow the same template even though he's down to eight episodes and I don't think he did I think 00:24:40.820 --> 00:24:46.040 there's I mean possibly because there's less scope for it but there's a different pattern to these 00:24:46.060 --> 00:24:53.120 episodes what i'm curious about now though is that as we go through a second season he seems to have 00:24:53.220 --> 00:25:01.500 had the the the first episode taking the companion so ruby and the doctor go off to the space baby 00:25:01.700 --> 00:25:10.340 spaceship the doctor and belinda go go off to belinda chandra one it's this kind of fantastical 00:25:10.360 --> 00:25:11.140 futuristic 00:25:12.580 --> 00:25:14.580 very sci-fi-ish 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:16.280 kind of story 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:18.440 setting and then in the second 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.340 episode we go back 00:25:20.520 --> 00:25:21.100 to 00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:23.840 recent history on earth so 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:26.000 1950s or 1960s 00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:28.160 and we encounter a past god 00:25:28.820 --> 00:25:29.680 now admittedly 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.140 I might be jumping 00:25:32.820 --> 00:25:34.080 to spot a pattern 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:36.240 too quickly given that we're only two episodes 00:25:36.460 --> 00:25:38.240 in and so that could just be a coincidence 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:40.320 but I did 00:25:40.340 --> 00:25:47.060 think that the links between the maestro episode and this episode were quite interesting even down 00:25:47.180 --> 00:25:53.420 to the fact that the the the maestro episode has all of the kind of song and dance stuff which is 00:25:54.100 --> 00:26:02.600 kind of metafictional in the you know in the same way that the the animation stuff in in lux is kind 00:26:02.600 --> 00:26:09.419 of metafictional yeah yeah you may be onto something he's stuck in a rut again i'm not sure 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:26.900 I'm not sure I'd argue that it's a rut. I would say that he uses that kind of template to give him... I mean, I kind of feel like... I like Russell T. Davis as a writer, but some of his best stuff isn't Doctor Who. 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:30.800 Right. I think all of his best stuff's probably not Doctor Who, but yeah. 00:26:30.940 --> 00:27:00.820 Well, when he gets, you know, my favorite thing of his, possibly my favorite piece of television, or one of my favorite pieces of television is Children of Earth from Torchwood. When he gets five hours of television, and a lot of the kind of recent stuff, I haven't seen It's a Sin, I did see years and years, but these kind of shows that are pretty much sort of five hours of television where he gets to tell a much more complicated story, and all these kind of things we've talked about in terms of pacing. 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:07.040 are very different for that kind of storytelling even even for something like you know one of his 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:12.060 earliest things second coming which i thought was excellent it you know it's a couple of hours to 00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:20.220 kind of really get it get into the the story properly and establish all of the all of the kind 00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:29.420 of themes and sense of place and character and what it's all about and i i think that because 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:35.380 Doctor Who, he's coming into a show, admittedly, you know, he did kind of reinvent it in 2005, 00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:40.720 but it's a show that already exists. And one of the fundamental things about it is how different 00:27:40.910 --> 00:27:49.360 it is. As you go from adventure to adventure, they can be in any time and place. And in some 00:27:49.520 --> 00:27:57.520 sense, there's a license to tell any kind of fantasy that you want to. And, you know, one of 00:27:57.540 --> 00:28:02.980 the differences when he reinvented the show in 2005 is that he's writing a lot of it himself 00:28:03.760 --> 00:28:09.860 and the framework i think then is a way of sort of saying is it is it mixed up enough particularly 00:28:10.020 --> 00:28:15.680 when he's doing you know different from how the show originally was when he's doing one episode 00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:23.160 and then another episode another episode and each one has to be a different setting in time and 00:28:23.180 --> 00:28:32.040 place unlike the old serials of four six seven ten half hour episodes all set within you know 00:28:32.040 --> 00:28:37.880 the same the the same setting essentially so i can understand why having a kind of framework 00:28:38.840 --> 00:28:46.820 for how you set that up for yourself and indeed for your other writers can be helpful i don't know 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.740 whether I particularly like it. 00:28:50.340 --> 00:28:51.660 I'm not even sure whether that 00:28:52.100 --> 00:28:53.860 even makes any sense to ask that. 00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:55.800 I guess for me, 00:28:55.870 --> 00:28:57.660 I quite enjoyed the fact that Moffat 00:28:58.070 --> 00:28:59.560 would come along each season 00:29:01.220 --> 00:29:02.880 and upend the format itself 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.420 and go, hey, I'm going to do two-parters 00:29:05.560 --> 00:29:06.840 for the whole season this time, 00:29:07.100 --> 00:29:09.400 or hey, I'm going to do one-parters 00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:10.580 for the whole season this time, 00:29:10.760 --> 00:29:13.520 or whatever it was that, you know, 00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:16.840 and never kind of used these 00:29:16.860 --> 00:29:22.080 patterns and decided that he was going to pick big themes and it was all going to be fairy tales or 00:29:22.820 --> 00:29:29.760 whatever. But yeah, it was just a pattern that I spotted. So I was curious if that was the case. 00:29:30.340 --> 00:29:36.260 Speaking of patterns that I spotted, and I have mentioned it before, I don't remember how many 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:43.059 times I mentioned it last year, but the doctor doesn't solve the problem. And more on that 00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:50.380 in this episode, right? It's Belinda and Mr. Pi that do the thing. The doctor is there to sort 00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:57.100 of facilitate them solving the problem like a sonic screwdriver. But it occurred to me, 00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:06.880 here's a good example of how weird this is. So the doctor arrives. Let's take just a standard 00:30:07.090 --> 00:30:11.760 episode of Doctor Who. The doctor arrives in a place and within a very short period of time, 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:40.860 What's happened? He's toppled the dictators. He's undone the time damage. He's right. He is. He is a storm that comes in and bang and the oncoming storm. Right. And that is the format of Doctor Who. What happened in last week's episode? To spare the suspense, the doctor arrived on the planet that was controlled by the dominating evil robots six months ago. 00:30:41.620 --> 00:30:45.140 And in that six months, he managed to accomplish nothing. 00:30:47.040 --> 00:30:49.500 He got as far as being the historian. 00:30:50.380 --> 00:30:54.460 Belinda arrives, and within hours, they've toppled the robot revolution. 00:30:55.120 --> 00:31:01.160 And it was Belinda that solved the day by, you know, oh, I got to go smack the certificate. 00:31:01.900 --> 00:31:05.340 You know, she went to solve, to sacrifice herself to save the day. 00:31:06.020 --> 00:31:09.480 So again, it's like, I don't, I don't like this take. 00:31:10.100 --> 00:31:10.940 I really don't. 00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:14.100 I mean, I get that you could argue that that is the original. 00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:16.280 Ian Chesterton's really the hero. 00:31:17.120 --> 00:31:18.900 Yes, I believe I have argued that. 00:31:19.300 --> 00:31:23.560 You haven't made that argument, but we got away from that very quickly because the Doctor 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:24.820 is the more interesting character. 00:31:26.299 --> 00:31:31.020 And I don't know that trying to bring that back is the right answer. 00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:37.300 Unless you want to make the Doctor, you know, 90 years old, physically, not, you know what 00:31:37.300 --> 00:31:37.520 I mean? 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:38.200 Yeah. 00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:42.960 William Hartnell era, put him in a cane and walking around. I can't do this anymore. You 00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:49.580 go get a young man or whatever. But yeah. So let me ask this question. Was Lux the god 00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:57.560 or the harbinger? I don't know. I think that I think I sort of filed that under it didn't really 00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:03.079 feel properly developed, but also I didn't, I'd say it doesn't matter. It was more like I didn't 00:32:03.100 --> 00:32:12.960 care that i didn't i didn't get about the moonlight stuff i didn't understand why he oh yeah so much 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:19.980 to sing along it yeah it didn't it didn't feel like any of these things made a whole lot of sense 00:32:20.540 --> 00:32:26.720 but i think he's i think he's supposed to be the god in which case then i guess rock hudson is the 00:32:26.820 --> 00:32:33.060 harbinger i mean i don't think that's a nice thing to do to rock hudson first up yeah yeah you drag 00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:41.620 hiv status just to remind people that they teach about him in school and and then yeah yeah and 00:32:41.780 --> 00:32:45.200 why would he have the same laugh i'm going to get onto lux now why would he have the same 00:32:47.580 --> 00:32:55.660 thing you mean it's a giggle yeah yeah why i don't know that that has to be significant but i don't 00:32:55.740 --> 00:33:00.800 know and i don't know what it's unless it's you know it's still the toy maker still ultimately 00:33:00.820 --> 00:33:06.800 the toy makers current around with us yeah his plan is to just to nuke the earth honestly 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:14.320 kind of boring yeah you know i mean i mean in term you know it's bad bad for the earth but i 00:33:14.320 --> 00:33:18.760 mean as a goal for a villain oh i just want to see an atomic bomb go off it's like you want to 00:33:18.760 --> 00:33:26.000 see an atomic bomb go off i mean surely you can do better than that they they chained the theater 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:32.760 big heavy chains big heavy chains as if they were keeping in a wild beast per the doctor 00:33:33.390 --> 00:33:37.820 that would imply they knew something was trapped in the theater but they don't know there's 00:33:37.850 --> 00:33:44.220 something trapped in the theater and either mr pie can get in and out or mr pie is dead 00:33:44.890 --> 00:33:52.700 unless he's very large established that lux can't get out so yeah so they just why why would they 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.080 Why would they have ever felt the need to chain unless you attempt to? 00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:57.360 Yeah, why would you chain it up? 00:33:57.480 --> 00:33:59.720 I mean, okay, something happened there. 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:03.800 You don't close a business after the crime investigation is done. 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.040 You let them open back up again. 00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:10.100 I mean, what business owner is going to sit by for that nonsense? 00:34:10.700 --> 00:34:12.020 We don't assume it's not Mr. Pi. 00:34:13.200 --> 00:34:14.679 He's the projectionist. 00:34:15.399 --> 00:34:18.480 And so, all right, let's hit the, you say you don't care. 00:34:18.940 --> 00:34:24.120 I agree, but at the same time, RTD has taught me that continuity is important. 00:34:24.540 --> 00:34:26.800 So logic and continuity is important. 00:34:26.830 --> 00:34:28.940 I mean, otherwise you can't spot how this stuff's nonsense. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:35.639 We saw Lux come in on a moonbeam from the full moon. 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:43.020 And he bounces off a spoon and then a non-reflective wall into the projector. 00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:46.800 But the moon is full up there in the sky. 00:34:47.860 --> 00:34:56.419 And if he came in along a moonbeam, he would have already been exposed to the sun at its full intensity. 00:34:57.260 --> 00:34:58.240 Because in space... 00:34:58.240 --> 00:34:59.960 Yes, yes, that's true. 00:35:00.540 --> 00:35:03.720 So that's just such a poorly thought out idea. 00:35:04.410 --> 00:35:05.380 I can't even... 00:35:07.619 --> 00:35:11.860 Yeah, I'm not going to argue with that, but it's not what occurred to me straight away. 00:35:11.940 --> 00:35:19.060 what occurred to me straight away was if if that was how you know that all of this kicked off that 00:35:19.120 --> 00:35:27.300 he moseyed along a moonbeam and bounced into this projector in this cinema in 1952 in miami why 00:35:28.180 --> 00:35:33.600 didn't he mosey along some other moonbeam in some other you know what what was what were the 00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:41.260 particular set of circumstances that caused that to happen then like moonbeams turn up all the time 00:35:41.640 --> 00:35:42.500 and go to all the places. 00:35:42.500 --> 00:35:43.780 And there's lots of signs out there. 00:35:44.140 --> 00:35:45.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:35:45.700 --> 00:35:47.700 So what was going on here? 00:35:48.120 --> 00:35:51.940 And the kind of corollary to that is why the setting, 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.580 like as in stepping out of the story for a moment, 00:35:55.640 --> 00:36:00.980 hey, RTD, why have you set this in Miami in 1952? 00:36:01.620 --> 00:36:03.960 It wasn't that I disliked it. 00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:06.480 But that's interesting because it's almost like 00:36:07.100 --> 00:36:11.240 we get into the story and he acknowledges 00:36:11.560 --> 00:36:18.600 the kind of situation he does use it as a plot point to be fair but he also straight away kind 00:36:18.600 --> 00:36:26.060 of brushes it aside the doctor has to give a speech about how there are some things even though 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:33.480 you know he gets upset about far less egregious things at other times where he just has to let 00:36:33.720 --> 00:36:39.240 people get on with it i mean hello what exact words are i believe sometimes i topple worlds 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:46.560 sometimes i wait for them to topple themselves so i get what i got it's a it's a cop out and i get 00:36:46.740 --> 00:36:52.540 why he does it because he doesn't want the whole episode to be about segregation and yet he's 00:36:52.780 --> 00:37:02.940 chosen to set it in this time and place where he's got these two two cast of color yeah well 00:37:03.020 --> 00:37:08.900 yeah he's got he's got an entire an entire non-white tardis crew for the first time and 00:37:09.660 --> 00:37:18.360 yeah so he's he's he's he's he's chosen to do that and yet he's chosen to make it a minor aspect of 00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:25.180 the episode and you know i i thought the episode did quite well to give a kind of sense of time and 00:37:25.180 --> 00:37:32.420 place to some degree i mean it wasn't like i feel i know what 1952 miami was like after watching it 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:39.260 but it's the kind of spooky cinema with the diner and the attitude. 00:37:41.680 --> 00:37:44.380 It works okay as a time and place, 00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:46.640 and yet so would lots of other time and place. 00:37:47.180 --> 00:37:48.400 It needs to feel like... 00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:51.760 What I feel it needs in the story is it needs to be rooted. 00:37:53.200 --> 00:37:56.140 It needs to be Earth history at some point. 00:37:56.180 --> 00:37:58.020 It needs to be a recognizable time and place. 00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:00.400 But why that one? 00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:01.880 And I do not know the answer. 00:38:02.799 --> 00:38:12.020 this is this is tying into that the thing i was saying before it's like he's got a little 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:18.160 checklist that he's just i've got to work this in somewhere and okay fine segregation is bad 00:38:18.520 --> 00:38:24.020 let's make sure people know segregation is bad and and remind them and okay so we can set this 00:38:24.070 --> 00:38:30.960 in 1952 and in florida fine okay it doesn't integrate into the plot well enough and if he 00:38:30.980 --> 00:38:38.900 could just, if it could just make it an important part of the story in such a way that the audience 00:38:39.140 --> 00:38:46.760 watching it and really gets why it's so bad. I'm not, it's, it's so bad because it's obviously bad, 00:38:47.040 --> 00:38:50.820 right? I mean, that's what we're, that's what we're being shown. We're being shown, see, 00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:58.540 segregation is bad and we all agree, but did we really, you know, show why it was so bad? 00:38:58.780 --> 00:39:03.820 did it really make a difference in this episode? And it didn't. And that's... 00:39:03.820 --> 00:39:07.120 Well, but it's not central. It's not central to the episode. I mean, I... 00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:07.440 Right. 00:39:08.020 --> 00:39:08.820 I think... 00:39:09.380 --> 00:39:10.180 It's added on. 00:39:10.300 --> 00:39:26.680 One of the problems there is that, as you kind of allude to, it's that, yeah, we all know segregation is bad. Well, I think, I fear we're in a time where actually it's not ideal to just assume that your audience... 00:39:26.680 --> 00:39:26.720 Yeah! 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:33.120 are in agreement with you on that. So I actually think if you're going there, making that point 00:39:33.860 --> 00:39:43.060 is worth making. I'm delighted the show is where it is with this, as it were, groundbreaking 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:53.260 team in the TARDIS. But at the same time, I would not like for the show to kind of rest 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:59.220 on its laurels as if all of these battles have been fought and so i i think that's one aspect 00:39:59.520 --> 00:40:05.380 of it but i think the other aspect of it is that you bring something like that in and you don't make 00:40:05.540 --> 00:40:13.240 it the key focus of the story and it's almost impossible to to do anything about it so for all 00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:21.520 the kind of discussion that has come up about how the rosa parks episode treated rosa parks and 00:40:21.540 --> 00:40:25.340 whether that, you know, whether she had sufficient agency in the way she was portrayed, 00:40:26.080 --> 00:40:32.860 that episode put her at the center of the story. And that was what the story was all about. 00:40:33.520 --> 00:40:38.500 And so if you're going there, I kind of feel like that's probably what you have to do. 00:40:39.040 --> 00:40:44.720 Yeah. I mean, I just, it just feels like he's bolting these things on and I, 00:40:45.380 --> 00:40:49.020 and you know, we can throw Brock Hudson in there as well. 00:40:49.740 --> 00:40:57.660 Same. Yeah. Same thing. Same thing. It's a passing mention. And honestly, I kind of wonder in a 00:40:57.850 --> 00:41:04.900 Western world, not if you were in Africa, but in a Western world in 2025, does the target audience, 00:41:05.780 --> 00:41:13.460 unlike RTD, who we know lived through the absolute worst of the HIV crisis and has written some 00:41:13.520 --> 00:41:20.120 amazing work about it but do the young people you know are they getting anything out of that other 00:41:20.220 --> 00:41:26.380 than you know rock Hudson never heard of him and I learned about him in my HIV class I mean I think 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:34.160 I think what RTD is probably doing there is he wants wants people to go away and ask that question 00:41:34.940 --> 00:41:41.280 in a way that is almost more like it is a kind of throwaway line it doesn't it is it is just he's 00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:48.600 tossing it out there for people to pick up. Also, as you say, he has written about this stuff and 00:41:48.740 --> 00:41:57.000 just because of what happened to his partner, he may justifiably feel that he doesn't have to write 00:41:57.240 --> 00:42:03.880 about this all the time. It doesn't have to be his thing. Although in some ways, if you were to 00:42:04.060 --> 00:42:08.900 pick something out of this episode, those are the things that he could write in a way that I'm not 00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:14.580 sure he could write about you know the black experience of segregation for example exactly 00:42:15.700 --> 00:42:19.960 exactly oh yeah so the other thing i wanted to mention about that whole sometimes i topple 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.620 worlds sometimes i wait for them to topple themselves this is the superman problem this 00:42:24.620 --> 00:42:31.480 is the superman hitler problem it's like superman exists in the comic book world in 1940s why doesn't 00:42:31.700 --> 00:42:37.200 superman go take care of hitler well it's a problem doctor who has i right exactly may have 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:45.560 addressed that in one of his episode titles yeah and and you know i think the premise of a very bad 00:42:45.740 --> 00:42:50.380 superman film the quest for peace was the same thing kid comes up you know sends him a letter 00:42:50.380 --> 00:42:54.300 and says oh the world's gonna blow itself up with nuclear weapons can't you do anything he says oh 00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:59.320 yeah actually i could just go grab all the nuclear weapons and destroy them who's gonna stop me you 00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:05.780 know apart from lex luther but for making the world safe for weapons profiteering but you know 00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:13.080 it is it's like you you have somebody who is so powerful and the doctor is so powerful he topples 00:43:13.220 --> 00:43:23.420 gods yeah in this universe and but if he topples if he toppled slavery 300 years ago yeah he he 00:43:23.500 --> 00:43:30.100 would destroy the web of time and all his friends and all his companions and all you know it's yeah 00:43:30.140 --> 00:43:53.920 Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I get it. The show has to deal with these things. So the web of time or the fixed point in time or whatever are the writers kind of shortcut or shorthand for being able to push these out of the way in order to go to a particular place in time and have an interesting Doctor Who story. 00:43:54.060 --> 00:43:58.840 because if you can't take Doctor Who wherever you want to take Doctor Who, it's not the show it is. 00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:10.380 But this was a choice. We're going to set this story about a god of light being a 2D animation 00:44:10.780 --> 00:44:15.300 coming to life and all of the kind of metafictional stuff around that. We're going to set this story 00:44:15.700 --> 00:44:23.700 in 1952 Miami. And I still don't really see why that story has to be set in 1952 Miami. 00:44:24.580 --> 00:44:30.920 also 1952 is an odd year since that's the middle of the korean war so the u.s involvement in the 00:44:30.980 --> 00:44:36.980 korean war so a lot of those movie theater goers and probably wouldn't have been there you know 00:44:37.080 --> 00:44:44.280 they'd been off dying for some ridiculous cause a couple things about the theater mr ringeting i 00:44:44.680 --> 00:44:50.180 don't know if i've ever mentioned this on the podcast it's a it's a pet peeve of mine there 00:44:50.200 --> 00:44:56.560 are people who are huge fans of old animation like the old disney stuff steamboat willie and 00:44:57.020 --> 00:45:04.660 early warner brothers films i hate them i detest them not not because i'm a dislike animation for 00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:12.300 example later 1950s warner brothers stuff and even disney stuff is so much better but like those 00:45:12.560 --> 00:45:19.000 shorts like mr ring-a-ding would be they all had this they all had this characteristic to them 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:25.960 that drives me mad. And that is, hey, it's animated. They've got to be moving all the time. 00:45:26.460 --> 00:45:31.000 So they're constantly bobbing up and down. And Mr. Ringeting is doing it. 00:45:32.200 --> 00:45:38.020 Yeah, they're bobbing up and down, but at least in a fluid way. But it's like, no, 00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:43.900 that's a 1930s animation, not a 1950s animation. Also, they really missed a trick, 00:45:44.500 --> 00:45:46.860 And maybe they didn't, and I just couldn't find it. 00:45:47.380 --> 00:45:50.780 But one of those film cans should have said Marco Polo on it. 00:45:51.060 --> 00:45:55.040 I absolutely said that. 00:45:55.310 --> 00:46:07.560 You know, as that scene came on, I was like, I cannot see a room like that and not think those canisters could have a Doctor Who, a missing Doctor Who episode in it. 00:46:08.080 --> 00:46:13.620 Obviously, difficult in 1952 Miami, but still, that was my first thought. 00:46:14.120 --> 00:46:14.360 Yeah. 00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:16.000 Yeah, you get all those cans, it's got to be there. 00:46:16.580 --> 00:46:17.220 It's got to be there. 00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:21.840 So is the doctor Velma because Velma is the smart one 00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:24.140 or because Velma has become the gay icon? 00:46:24.660 --> 00:46:30.460 I don't know enough about Scooby-Doo to get into this stuff. 00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:33.720 Well, in recent years, they've decided that Velma is a lesbian. 00:46:34.180 --> 00:46:34.620 Okay. 00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:40.720 That's the later interpretations they've moved Velma on. 00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:47.840 I think that there is only one character that the new doctor reminds me of in Scooby-Doo, 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:48.920 and that's Scrappy-Doo. 00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.160 And that is the hill I will stand on. 00:46:52.820 --> 00:46:55.200 If he's a Scooby-Doo character, he is Scrappy-Doo. 00:46:55.780 --> 00:47:03.100 The most obnoxious, noisy, useless character they've got, unless you need a door knockdown. 00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.160 By the way, why does the sonic screwdriver explode locks now? 00:47:06.620 --> 00:47:10.420 You're asking why the sonic screwdriver does what the sonic screwdriver does? 00:47:11.120 --> 00:47:16.920 why not just unlock the lock you twist it and the shackles turn clunk but no it explodes i mean how 00:47:17.020 --> 00:47:22.920 is how is that sonic how is it pyrotechnics out of that it just i can see how some things might 00:47:23.140 --> 00:47:29.280 explode but not a padlock and it falls open that's what it should do so cartoon characters are two 00:47:29.950 --> 00:47:34.960 dimensional if i'm if i'm reading this did was that supposed to imply that the doctor wasn't 00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:42.720 able to think well because his brain had become two-dimensional i think the suggestion i i 00:47:43.080 --> 00:47:52.360 interpreted it as saying that those kinds of animations didn't have the depth that live 00:47:52.730 --> 00:47:58.820 action has i mean it feels pretty nonsensical to me but i don't know not to mention that there 00:47:58.900 --> 00:48:05.000 are animation and i'm not a you know again animation's fine but i mean there are animated 00:48:05.520 --> 00:48:13.020 stories that have far far more depth yeah well yeah i mean i think i it exactly exactly that 00:48:13.050 --> 00:48:20.960 so if you think you know my ohiozaki kind of movies has it you know as opposed to 00:48:21.140 --> 00:48:25.080 your Jean-Claude Van Damme blockbuster, 00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:26.780 which is live action. 00:48:27.680 --> 00:48:31.240 I mean, I guess the justification for it 00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:33.220 is actually the language that we use. 00:48:34.100 --> 00:48:37.740 When we're talking about any kind of storytelling 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.420 and we say the character is two-dimensional 00:48:41.860 --> 00:48:43.000 and they're lacking depth, 00:48:44.220 --> 00:48:46.440 that's kind of where they go with this, 00:48:46.700 --> 00:49:01.720 But as they, in inverted commas, add depth to the characters of the Doctor and Belinda, they add depth to them as animations. 00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:05.660 They become literally more three-dimensional. 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.840 That was fine for me in the moment. 00:49:09.860 --> 00:49:11.880 But the whole 2D, 3D thing, I don't know. 00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.400 Because there's that weird moment in the cold open where Lux says, 00:49:16.260 --> 00:49:19.500 things are going to get 3D now as he climbs out of the screen. 00:49:20.420 --> 00:49:26.780 And then he spends the next at least 40 minutes of the episode still in 2D. 00:49:27.030 --> 00:49:28.120 So what was he talking about? 00:49:28.540 --> 00:49:29.060 Yeah. 00:49:29.670 --> 00:49:34.340 I still think, you know, they should try harder to hire actors who have American accents. 00:49:36.200 --> 00:49:39.180 I was wondering what the accent would like. 00:49:39.630 --> 00:49:41.520 And his dialogue is so awful. 00:49:42.300 --> 00:49:43.260 too. I mean, 00:49:45.240 --> 00:49:45.780 frankly, it's 00:49:46.020 --> 00:49:47.600 insulting. It's truly 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:49.920 insulting. It was so bad. 00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:51.800 It's like nobody's that 00:49:51.940 --> 00:49:53.780 inane. Unless, of course, you're a 00:49:53.860 --> 00:49:55.400 fictional character in the land of fiction. 00:49:56.120 --> 00:49:57.320 But there you go. 00:49:58.060 --> 00:49:59.440 Oh, please, a shower scene. 00:50:00.140 --> 00:50:01.680 Yeah, that'd be nice. David 00:50:01.860 --> 00:50:02.860 Tennant pops out of the shower. 00:50:03.660 --> 00:50:05.020 Whoa, a weird dream. 00:50:05.640 --> 00:50:07.760 And just go on. Spare 00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:08.880 a thought for Mr. Pie. 00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:11.080 Notice Belinda had no 00:50:11.800 --> 00:50:13.280 emotional investment in his death. 00:50:14.680 --> 00:50:14.820 Yeah. 00:50:15.060 --> 00:50:15.120 Right? 00:50:15.180 --> 00:50:17.720 She was pretty pleased about all the people coming out. 00:50:18.300 --> 00:50:19.020 Oh, this is great. 00:50:19.080 --> 00:50:19.860 We saved them all. 00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:21.800 Not even a moment for Mr. Pie. 00:50:22.460 --> 00:50:23.760 Yeah, fair, fair point. 00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:28.560 So is the wardrobe on the TARDIS a close Aracocycle now? 00:50:29.260 --> 00:50:33.060 From the Jetsons, you run in one door and you pop out the other in a surprise outfit? 00:50:33.500 --> 00:50:40.780 I think that the problem is they've spent so much money on that enormous space. 00:50:41.520 --> 00:50:42.220 Pointless space. 00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:16.820 date of that i'd have i'd have appreciated that and you know when she comes out she's like looking 00:51:16.940 --> 00:51:21.220 at it like she's never seen these clothes before not like she was gone into the because it could 00:51:21.220 --> 00:51:25.340 be editing right they run in one room they we cut pause wait and then they come out it's just 00:51:25.620 --> 00:51:31.600 an editing thing but clearly she's not seen these clothes before so she has been miraculously 00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:41.040 transformed into 1952 clothing and hair so yeah it is i mean and well i don't know whether it's 00:51:41.060 --> 00:51:55.420 It's something that this doctor has rigged up because, yeah, for a lot of previous incarnations of the doctor, the wardrobe has been used only after a regeneration. 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:07.260 And then, you know, once the doctor has clothes that fit the new body, both in terms of, I guess, physique and personality, then that's it done. 00:52:07.720 --> 00:52:10.620 Not going to change again until death. 00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:19.600 say, I'm going to say that if there is one thing that I will give to either RTD or our Moffat is, 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:26.300 and we don't, we didn't have enough time with Eccleston to really find out, but Tenet wearing 00:52:27.140 --> 00:52:33.280 the same clothes, but different colors and Matt Smith kind of wearing the same clothes, but you 00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:39.260 know, occasionally change. That's, that's what Tom Baker did. And that's what people do. You, 00:52:39.340 --> 00:52:47.440 you have your you have your kind of personal uniform right you you develop a style of clothing 00:52:47.540 --> 00:52:56.080 you like and then i don't i don't wear a brown pinstripe and converse all the time but some 00:52:56.260 --> 00:53:04.280 people who go to work do wear a suit every day yes yeah and you know you i you know i had a uniform 00:53:04.300 --> 00:53:12.020 my war to work. It wasn't, it was chinos and certain style of polo shirt. And I had a whole 00:53:12.120 --> 00:53:18.520 bunch of them, but more or less, you could pretty much pin me down to that's what I'm going to be 00:53:18.660 --> 00:53:22.620 wearing. It's very, very rare. I would wear something different because it's convenient. 00:53:22.910 --> 00:53:29.480 Who cares? I don't care. I like it. And, you know, lots of people do that. Lots of people do 00:53:29.500 --> 00:53:35.860 that so when the doctor was in a mode where he wore the same kind of clothes because that's what 00:53:35.860 --> 00:53:41.620 he likes but you know different even pertwee changed jackets and frilly shirts some once 00:53:41.620 --> 00:53:48.300 you got to davison then that was jnt's fault don't you know that pertwee yeah i mean davison is is 00:53:48.370 --> 00:53:56.920 very much a uniform but i think it starts with pertwee and i think that's you know eccleston 00:53:56.940 --> 00:54:00.280 How can you say that when Hartnell and Troughton wore nothing? 00:54:01.650 --> 00:54:02.200 Same outfit. 00:54:03.020 --> 00:54:04.840 But, well, yeah, sort of. 00:54:04.850 --> 00:54:09.880 But then it's creating a look for their own doctor. 00:54:10.010 --> 00:54:19.440 I think Pertwee was making a statement, and the statement was about kind of costume and flamboyance. 00:54:20.160 --> 00:54:20.260 Yeah. 00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:43.960 And I think that in the same way, Eccleston was making a statement, which was about saying the costume's not the important thing. And I think Capaldi was sort of saying the same thing, although his take on it was more, I want the fans to be able to play my character without necessarily having to buy merch. 00:54:44.600 --> 00:54:46.940 Especially if they happen to have a Pertwee outfit around somewhere. 00:54:48.820 --> 00:54:58.080 But yeah, I only have one other thing, and I thought this is kind of outside the realm. 00:54:58.660 --> 00:55:00.260 So sure, I've mentioned this before. 00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:08.080 I don't listen to other podcasts that review the episodes until after we have done this recording. 00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:15.420 And after the last one, there was a really, I don't know that this is a controversial opinion one way or the other. 00:55:16.040 --> 00:55:23.520 But I have noticed that there are lots of podcasts and not just Doctor Who podcasts. 00:55:23.610 --> 00:55:25.380 I'm talking about any kind of podcast. 00:55:26.120 --> 00:55:34.740 And then there are YouTube channels, similarly, where the hosts have adopted a stance like, 00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:37.560 I think positivity is the way to go. 00:55:38.140 --> 00:55:40.060 Perhaps that's the right answer in this world. 00:55:40.230 --> 00:55:40.660 I don't know. 00:55:40.820 --> 00:55:42.140 I think that's a bit dishonest. 00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:45.720 I personally do not try to adopt negativity. 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:47.680 It just feels like it during Doctor Who season lately. 00:55:48.660 --> 00:55:49.660 You don't have to try. 00:55:50.680 --> 00:55:51.500 There you go. 00:55:51.550 --> 00:55:52.620 See, it's not trying. 00:55:52.900 --> 00:55:55.260 I try to be honest. 00:55:55.570 --> 00:55:58.980 And I get where that can come off as negative, 00:55:59.180 --> 00:56:00.880 particularly if somebody isn't particularly honest. 00:56:01.720 --> 00:56:06.600 But I was listening to a podcast where they're always positive. 00:56:07.140 --> 00:56:08.500 They always spin the positive. 00:56:08.530 --> 00:56:10.860 They find a way to spin the positive. 00:56:11.620 --> 00:56:15.880 And I just thought it was really weird that they launched off with this 00:56:15.900 --> 00:56:20.620 I watched this episode and I realized that I'm old. 00:56:21.340 --> 00:56:21.780 I'm old. 00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:26.700 And this is not made for me. 00:56:27.460 --> 00:56:27.560 This, 00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:29.500 this story is telling style, 00:56:30.140 --> 00:56:30.740 this storytelling. 00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:32.720 It's just, 00:56:33.420 --> 00:56:35.700 it's not made for me. 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:37.600 And I was feeling really old. 00:56:38.260 --> 00:56:38.420 Nonetheless, 00:56:38.420 --> 00:56:39.040 it's really great. 00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:41.820 Well, 00:56:42.720 --> 00:56:42.940 I'm, 00:56:43.580 --> 00:56:43.980 I've got, 00:56:44.180 --> 00:56:51.320 I got some sympathy with that because I kind of feel like, I mean, I did feel a bit like that when I was watching Class, I'll be honest. 00:56:53.940 --> 00:57:02.260 But I thought, you know, Patrick Ness, this great rep, and this show must be really good. 00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:08.780 But I have no idea why they're doing this the way they're doing it, and it doesn't really work for me. 00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:10.960 And that made me feel old. 00:57:11.380 --> 00:57:15.040 I don't know that the current Doctor Who makes me feel old. 00:57:15.380 --> 00:57:23.660 I think it makes me feel like this is not my favorite version of the show. 00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:26.540 And I've talked about some of my reservations or whatever. 00:57:26.640 --> 00:57:33.720 But when I watch it, I'm still trying to look for how it works well in its own terms. 00:57:34.759 --> 00:57:39.100 And yeah, I guess you could say that's kind of taking a positive spin on it 00:57:39.120 --> 00:57:46.760 because I'm taking my preferences, which are, I love Stephen Moffat's Doctor Who, and I'm trying 00:57:46.820 --> 00:57:51.840 to sort of set those aside and look at the show that we're watching rather than thinking, you know, 00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:56.980 I wish Stephen Moffat was still writing that. I think I did that during the Chibnall era. I'm 00:57:57.240 --> 00:58:07.680 certainly trying to do that now. It's definitely become more, this is not a show that is as much 00:58:07.700 --> 00:58:15.880 what I want to watch, shall we say. It's still Doctor Who, but it's making me feel when I watch 00:58:16.060 --> 00:58:22.740 it, I wish it was something else. I wish it was something else. But I'm also aware when I go and 00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:28.240 look at the reactions online, that a lot of people, particularly the kind of people I follow 00:58:28.300 --> 00:58:35.620 who are not Doctor Who fans, the not we in Moffat terms, are loving these episodes. There's no 00:58:35.640 --> 00:58:42.000 detailed review there's just a bunch of messages from people saying another great episode of doctor 00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:48.480 who last night i really loved the kind of energy of this season or whatever and i'm like okay well 00:58:49.070 --> 00:58:56.580 good for you then yeah i i i don't know i don't know doctor who has always been like this this is 00:58:56.950 --> 00:59:03.880 you know this is the the perspective i am taking from 62 years of the show is that we can sit down 00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:10.600 and have a jolly good old argument about the Sylvester McCoy era, because there's stuff there 00:59:10.640 --> 00:59:15.720 that I just love. And I know that there is nothing I can do that will make you enjoy it. 00:59:16.620 --> 00:59:21.360 And it's got to be the other way around as well. You know, there are, I can't say that there are, 00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:25.460 yeah, there are things that can do to make me enjoy it. You can make me watch this first. 00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:44.880 Well, all right. I'm never quite sure where to peg your dislike in terms of, is this McCoy bad or is this just? 00:59:45.500 --> 00:59:53.860 Of classic Doctor Who, there is nothing worse than McCoy year one. Nothing. He's terrible. 00:59:54.740 --> 00:59:56.420 It's like the stories are terrible. 00:59:57.140 --> 00:59:58.380 The performances are terrible. 00:59:58.500 --> 00:59:59.480 I'm not saying they can't act. 00:59:59.490 --> 01:00:03.840 I'm just saying the performance that were asked of them were terrible. 01:00:04.300 --> 01:00:05.520 The stories make no sense. 01:00:05.850 --> 01:00:07.800 They just, I do not. 01:00:07.820 --> 01:00:12.980 I'm going to say right now, I mean, we could really get into this in a whole other episode, 01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:17.400 but I'm going to put Paradise Towers above the web planet. 01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:17.900 Sorry. 01:00:18.540 --> 01:00:19.420 Paradise Towers. 01:00:20.060 --> 01:00:20.280 Wow. 01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:21.940 Above the web planet. 01:00:22.520 --> 01:00:22.680 Yep. 01:00:23.300 --> 01:00:24.400 stone cold classic, 01:00:24.620 --> 01:00:25.340 like the web plan. 01:00:27.080 --> 01:00:27.520 There you go. 01:00:28.660 --> 01:00:31.840 I'm not saying the web planet is the best thing they ever did on doctor who 01:00:32.220 --> 01:00:32.420 or, 01:00:32.540 --> 01:00:35.540 or even in the top tier or even in the top half, 01:00:36.980 --> 01:00:38.720 but no paradise towers is worse. 01:00:39.680 --> 01:00:39.800 I, 01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:41.200 I there's, 01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:41.400 I, 01:00:41.480 --> 01:00:41.700 you know, 01:00:42.380 --> 01:00:45.120 I remember those when they were coming out and thinking, 01:00:45.980 --> 01:00:46.380 could they have, 01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:47.620 could they have actually gotten worse? 01:00:47.780 --> 01:00:47.940 I mean, 01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:48.080 we've got, 01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:49.460 we've had Delta in the Bannerman. 01:00:50.500 --> 01:00:50.760 Wow. 01:00:51.220 --> 01:00:54.080 We've had Happiness Patrol, yeah. 01:00:54.560 --> 01:00:55.200 That was one of them. 01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:57.020 No, no, Happiness Patrol was later. 01:00:57.700 --> 01:00:58.580 That was Ace, wasn't it? 01:00:59.140 --> 01:00:59.700 It was Ace. 01:00:59.800 --> 01:01:02.840 It was, I was trying to remember whether it was McCoy's second or third season. 01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:04.260 It was his second season, I think. 01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:10.040 It had to have been his second season because we didn't get Ace until the last of an Ice 01:01:10.140 --> 01:01:12.760 World there, which that Dragon's Fire, that was terrible. 01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:14.080 Wasn't that the last of the first season? 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:16.340 Dragon Fire was the last of the first season. 01:01:16.520 --> 01:01:17.120 Paradise Towers. 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:18.840 What was the other one in there? 01:01:19.420 --> 01:01:20.100 Time and the Ronnie? 01:01:20.700 --> 01:01:25.060 mark of the time in the rani time in the rani paradise towers yeah delta and the bannerman 01:01:25.090 --> 01:01:30.320 and dragon fire actually delta yeah delta was first mccoy so that's a good episode 01:01:31.040 --> 01:01:38.900 anyway i feel we may be straying off this in wales no the the i guess that i guess the point i'm 01:01:39.560 --> 01:01:48.800 i'm getting at here is that there are doctor who fans who like time lash you know it's it it's just 01:01:49.240 --> 01:01:55.680 it does have that oscar worther performance by paul darrow well absolutely it's it's a show where 01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:02.940 there is nothing constant except the fact that it does keep completely changing and every time it 01:02:03.080 --> 01:02:09.900 does and i and you know i get this amongst my friends who who will sort of say oh you know i 01:02:10.080 --> 01:02:14.960 stopped watching the show when matt smith took over i was like what you can't be serious this 01:02:14.980 --> 01:02:21.580 was the best the show has ever been but then you know oh i i came back to watch jodie whittaker or 01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:28.280 whatever it may be it's it's and and and not all the same you know that there'll be some who go 01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:36.700 i didn't like that peter capaldi peter capaldi one of our greatest actors okay whatever no yeah 01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:44.100 but you know i i definitely for for whatever reason you can say this is definitely not 01:02:44.120 --> 01:02:54.080 a show that I would appreciate if it did not have the name attached to it. If you set me down and 01:02:54.240 --> 01:03:03.040 said, here, we're going to start the show with the goblins and watch this TV series, disguise the 01:03:03.180 --> 01:03:09.240 TARDIS as something else. And if I could divorce this from knowing that this would be an ape on 01:03:09.580 --> 01:03:13.020 aping Doctor Who. That's what it's doing. It's aping Doctor Who. It's not actually Doctor Who, 01:03:13.160 --> 01:03:18.380 it's aping Doctor Who. No, I think it is Doctor Who. It is Doctor Who because Doctor Who has 01:03:18.680 --> 01:03:26.580 always had duds and great episodes. It's just what I think are duds and great episodes is 01:03:26.670 --> 01:03:29.860 different from what any other Doctor Who fan thinks are duds and great episodes. 01:03:30.710 --> 01:03:38.320 I think, for me especially, that having Russell T. Davis running the show means that it varies 01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:45.120 a lot more but there are you know i i'd like say the goblins one i quite enjoyed joy to the world 01:03:45.120 --> 01:03:51.880 was great there were a couple of episodes last season that i thought were pretty good i think if 01:03:52.150 --> 01:03:58.520 if you sat me down in front of this episode the you know the one we are normally discussing right 01:04:00.130 --> 01:04:05.960 now then i don't and i'd never seen the show before then i don't know that i would keep watching it 01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:11.180 no i think i can definitely say i would not keep watching it you know i think that's where 01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:16.020 your your your point about you know the fact this is doctor who keeps some of us 01:04:16.820 --> 01:04:23.740 watching the show is true but then again i think you know like i say from the the kind of comments 01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:29.300 that i'm seeing on social media i think there are people who are casual viewers who are watching 01:04:29.740 --> 01:04:35.820 these episodes in a way that they weren't watching some of the chibnall episodes when i 01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:42.820 found a lot more i was getting a lot more from the show so one of our patrons i think it's mark 01:04:43.180 --> 01:04:50.880 i'm gonna i'm almost positive it's mark actually said to us you know he doesn't watch these he he 01:04:51.460 --> 01:04:57.240 he just lets us talk about them saves him the trouble from having to watch them he listens 01:04:57.260 --> 01:05:00.300 He listens to us talking, even though he hasn't watched the episode. 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:06.040 Mark, I salute your dedication to Fusion Patrol, and thank you. 01:05:06.760 --> 01:05:07.360 Exactly. 01:05:08.120 --> 01:05:12.960 So anyway, do you have anything else on this episode? 01:05:13.600 --> 01:05:21.240 I guess we ought to mention, just because I think it probably proves that Belinda doesn't live next door to Ruby, 01:05:21.600 --> 01:05:27.140 that Mrs. Flood appears to live in 1952 Miami as well. 01:05:27.320 --> 01:05:31.520 So some of the conclusions I was drawing last week are wrong. 01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:37.460 I also, and I think you were probably going to mention this and have done some research 01:05:38.040 --> 01:05:38.380 into it. 01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:44.140 I just noticed that Murray Gold was doing his bit for the environment and doing a lot 01:05:44.140 --> 01:05:45.380 of recycling this week. 01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:48.160 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was Amy's thing. 01:05:48.340 --> 01:05:49.780 Da da da da da da da. 01:05:50.440 --> 01:05:50.880 That one. 01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:56.480 When they were starting to talk about how, you know, we realize we're not real. 01:05:56.580 --> 01:06:02.460 yeah in that scene yeah in that scene there was definitely a track that i i've listened to a lot 01:06:03.060 --> 01:06:10.140 and there were other scenes where i noticed it as well it's it's curious that up until 01:06:11.060 --> 01:06:18.480 i don't know how to refer to seasons anymore but up up until the last peter capaldi season 01:06:19.340 --> 01:06:27.820 season 10 as it was in those days or season 36 as i would insist on calling it they the silver 01:06:28.100 --> 01:06:34.260 screen were releasing a soundtrack for every season they didn't release a soundtrack for that 01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:42.220 season when seg and akinola took over the show they did kind of rediscover their enthusiasm for 01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:49.340 putting out the discs and you know there were like three discs a season or the specials got 01:06:49.460 --> 01:06:56.900 their own discs or whatever it was and then since i think as far as i'm aware since russell t davis 01:06:57.020 --> 01:07:04.280 and murray gold have come back there ain't nothing from from any of those and murray gold has written 01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:12.420 some new music he is definitely recycling now but he has written three music yeah i i mean i wonder 01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:20.260 i did wonder this at the time i wonder whether he's still i i admired so much you know he did 01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:24.480 what what would it what would it have been it would have been well it would have been at least 01:07:24.580 --> 01:07:34.360 10 years wasn't it and he he kind of was discovering new themes and almost kind of new 01:07:34.690 --> 01:07:40.260 not exactly new styles because it's all very murray gold but it was it was still feeling fresh 01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:46.600 all the way through that original run but now he's coming back i wonder what there is in it 01:07:46.940 --> 01:07:54.520 for him does it it's does it feel exciting to work on a show that you maybe feel you did everything 01:07:54.540 --> 01:08:00.960 before maybe he's got maybe he's been given instructions to call in on the older stuff so 01:08:00.970 --> 01:08:07.320 that we once again kind of get that whole uh it's storytelling technique it's it's the land of 01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:13.100 fiction well i don't know because i think one of the things that that that he in particular 01:08:14.040 --> 01:08:21.380 is so good at i mean obviously it's a standard standard thing for film composers but but the 01:08:21.400 --> 01:08:24.420 the kind of light motifs that he developed. 01:08:25.319 --> 01:08:27.660 I think he's good at it because they were so, 01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:29.839 so memorable and the different characters, 01:08:30.859 --> 01:08:34.920 even the different incarnations of the doctor had their own music. 01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:36.600 And so to, 01:08:37.339 --> 01:08:38.480 to draw on something, 01:08:39.040 --> 01:08:39.359 you know, 01:08:39.440 --> 01:08:39.779 there's a, 01:08:39.839 --> 01:08:42.700 there's a thing that you associate with Amy to draw on that in a, 01:08:42.920 --> 01:08:46.620 in a scene that doesn't have Amy in it feels kind of weird. 01:08:47.299 --> 01:08:47.500 It's, 01:08:47.540 --> 01:08:48.060 I think it's, 01:08:48.140 --> 01:08:49.680 I think it's the Amy fairy tale. 01:08:51.020 --> 01:08:59.819 theme so it's just that sort of person caught up in the doctor's world idea in a way having 01:09:00.060 --> 01:09:04.759 having no music having no music in the scene where they stepped out of the show might have 01:09:04.859 --> 01:09:12.779 been more appropriate perhaps all right i think we're good right next time it's the well i have 01:09:12.779 --> 01:09:16.900 some thoughts about that i don't know if i want to say them out here but something about watching 01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:17.359 that preview. 01:09:19.420 --> 01:09:21.120 If we don't... 01:09:21.700 --> 01:09:22.440 All right, I'm just going to say, 01:09:22.580 --> 01:09:23.100 I'm going to, I'm going to, 01:09:23.660 --> 01:09:25.359 I'm just going to say three words. 01:09:26.100 --> 01:09:27.140 And if I'm totally wrong, 01:09:27.540 --> 01:09:28.080 I'm totally wrong. 01:09:28.759 --> 01:09:29.660 Waters of Mars. 01:09:31.480 --> 01:09:32.640 Simon, thank you for joining me. 01:09:33.100 --> 01:09:34.160 It's a pleasure as always. 01:09:35.040 --> 01:09:35.400 And listeners, 01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:37.839 I do hope you'll join us all again next time 01:09:38.460 --> 01:09:39.000 on Fusion Patrol. 01:09:41.400 --> 01:09:43.560 You've been listening to Fusion Patrol. 01:09:44.160 --> 01:09:44.799 Thanks for listening. 01:09:47.040 --> 01:09:50.200 If you've enjoyed this episode, we hope you'll consider supporting us at 01:09:50.540 --> 01:09:55.380 buymeacoffee.com slash Fusion Patrol or patreon.com slash Fusion Patrol. 01:09:56.020 --> 01:10:01.660 For our monthly Patreon subscribers, we're currently running a special series on Babylon 5. 01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:08.200 Come join the conversation and find other content at fusionpatrol.com. 01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:13.860 And we're back on social media, where you can also follow us on Mastodon and the Fediverse. 01:10:14.620 --> 01:10:18.460 Our address is at podcast at fusion patrol dot com. 01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:23.840 Our music is Fight the Future by Amber Wolf. 01:10:26.540 --> 01:10:28.860 This has been a Lone Locust production.