WEBVTT 00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:11.280 you're listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:18.440 each week we take a single episode of a science fiction tv series movie or 00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:24.980 audio and overanalyze it to within an inch of its life welcome to the discussion 00:00:31.660 --> 00:00:33.960 Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. 00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:34.700 I'm Eugene. 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:36.080 And I'm Simon. 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:44.680 And tonight we are looking at Season 2024 of Doctor Who, Episode 5, Dot and Bubble and Squeak. 00:00:45.160 --> 00:00:45.940 Or just Dot and Bubble. 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:46.500 Depends. 00:00:47.080 --> 00:00:48.160 I like my name. 00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:55.860 Before I get to the synopsis, I should say that I struggled with the choice of some of the adjectives I used in this synopsis. 00:00:56.500 --> 00:01:00.020 I'm not entirely satisfied with them, but they are what they are. 00:01:00.720 --> 00:01:03.700 Episode synopsis with suboptimal adjectives. 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:05.680 Lindy Pepper... 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.900 Lindy Pepperbean begins her grueling day in the usual way. 00:01:11.360 --> 00:01:17.700 Checking her TikTok, brushing her teeth, interacting with fatuous friends, and measuring her pee. 00:01:18.340 --> 00:01:20.520 all while surrounded by her bubble, 00:01:20.890 --> 00:01:24.080 a continuous social media and life monitoring system 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:26.580 controlled by a device called a dot. 00:01:27.100 --> 00:01:31.360 It surrounds her head, just like everyone else in fine time. 00:01:31.980 --> 00:01:35.720 It's not quite like the usual morning for an unwelcome stranger 00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:37.540 calling himself the doctor, 00:01:37.870 --> 00:01:41.420 tries to whore his way into her carefully curated feed, 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.160 warning that she is in danger from monsters. 00:01:46.020 --> 00:01:48.140 She blocks him, as you do. 00:01:48.820 --> 00:01:52.640 At work, another stranger called Ruby Sunday breaks into her bubble. 00:01:53.260 --> 00:01:58.040 Pretending to be an official, Ruby tries to convince Lindy to lower her bubble and look around, 00:01:58.740 --> 00:02:03.760 suggesting that all the people who should be in her office with her might not be. 00:02:04.340 --> 00:02:08.840 When she finally complies, she finds Bertie being eaten by a monster. 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:15.860 For whatever reason, the monsters are not being seen by their bubbles, so no one is aware of their presence. 00:02:16.700 --> 00:02:26.520 Lindy tries leaving the building with her bubble turned off, but she's so unflaggingly stupid that she cannot even walk in a straight line without an arrow pointing straight ahead. 00:02:26.860 --> 00:02:32.420 And cruelly, no one suggests that she hold her finger straight ahead of her and follow that. 00:02:33.020 --> 00:02:39.100 She turns the bubble back on to navigate out of the building and runs into one of the monsters, which ignores her. 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:45.760 She manages to get outside and turns off her bubble, only to discover the monsters eating people all over the place. 00:02:46.380 --> 00:02:51.400 She tries group chatting with her friends, and the doctor tries convincing them of the danger. 00:02:52.140 --> 00:02:53.360 Many of them are already missing. 00:02:54.060 --> 00:02:55.960 One is eaten while they watch. 00:02:56.600 --> 00:03:00.400 The doctor sends them all the information on how to reach escape tunnels under the city, 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:02.140 but Lindy has a problem. 00:03:02.450 --> 00:03:03.720 Her bubble battery is dead. 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:07.360 Unable to walk unassisted and with no way of navigating, 00:03:07.690 --> 00:03:09.540 she is confronted by several of the monsters. 00:03:10.340 --> 00:03:17.760 looking bleak, but Ricky September, mega-influencer, shows up and saves the day. Unlike the others, 00:03:17.820 --> 00:03:22.860 he spends most of his day reading books with his bubble turned off. He still knows how to walk 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:29.040 unaided, helps Lindy reach the escape tunnels. In the tunnels, Ricky September uses the data 00:03:29.380 --> 00:03:35.719 the doctor is sending him to unseal the door, a slow, tedious process that gives the doctor time 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:41.000 to work out that the monsters are eating people alphabetically. They've already wiped out the 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:45.940 homeworld and now they're ticking their way through the list on fine time, killing everyone. 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:51.880 Lindy and Ricky are safe from the monsters in the basement. The doctor suspects that the AI 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:58.180 in the dots that control the bubbles has been taking in everything these people have been doing 00:03:58.640 --> 00:04:04.360 and has learned to hate them as much or perhaps even more than we in the audience do. 00:04:05.100 --> 00:04:07.580 Lindy Pepperbean is next on the list. 00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:12.780 Since the monsters cannot get into the basement, her dot comes to life and tries to kill her. 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.660 Ricky steps up to bat and fights the dot off with a makeshift bat. 00:04:17.100 --> 00:04:21.880 But when it looks like there's no hope for Lindy, she tells the dot a secret. 00:04:22.460 --> 00:04:24.320 Ricky September isn't his real name. 00:04:24.750 --> 00:04:28.040 His real name is Combs, and he should be killed before her. 00:04:28.530 --> 00:04:33.360 The dot agrees, and as Ricky stands agape at the betrayal, the dot kills him. 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:44.140 Lindy escapes through the hatch, where, on the other side, the Doctor and the other survivors he saved are preparing to leave Find Time and head out into the wilderness to start a new world. 00:04:44.760 --> 00:04:51.480 There is only one small group of survivors, and the Doctor offers to take them in the TARDIS to another planet where they can start again. 00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:57.160 Thanks, but no thanks. We don't want to associate with the likes of you. Goodbye. 00:04:58.460 --> 00:05:02.060 And off they sail to their almost certain depths. 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:04.340 So, what'd you think? 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:06.280 It's the Doctor Light episode. 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:07.140 Again. 00:05:07.820 --> 00:05:09.800 Which is the best thing I can say about it. 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:10.860 Oh, yeah. 00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:13.680 But, do you like it? 00:05:13.940 --> 00:05:14.600 I didn't hate it. 00:05:14.840 --> 00:05:15.640 I'll just go right there. 00:05:15.640 --> 00:05:16.220 I didn't hate it. 00:05:16.420 --> 00:05:16.620 But, okay. 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:18.160 I have my issues, though. 00:05:18.740 --> 00:05:23.400 Yeah, well, I mean, obviously, I like the Doctor Light episode. 00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:27.560 I'm just a bit surprised, because last week was definitely a very Doctor Light episode. 00:05:27.880 --> 00:05:32.640 And this was a sort of actually Doctor and Companion-like episode. 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:36.900 But there was more of Millie Gibson than was of Shooty Gatwa in it. 00:05:37.280 --> 00:05:39.000 I know why it's a Doctor-like episode. 00:05:39.260 --> 00:05:44.920 Remember we talked about last time that 73 Yards was the first episode filmed? 00:05:45.580 --> 00:05:45.780 Yeah. 00:05:46.320 --> 00:05:47.160 And this is the second. 00:05:47.840 --> 00:05:49.720 And they were still filming Sex Education. 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:51.980 Shooty Gatwa was off doing... 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:53.880 Right. 00:05:54.390 --> 00:05:57.580 So, yeah, that kind of makes sense. 00:05:58.320 --> 00:06:02.320 in terms of even though you've got an eight episode run which you think you should have 00:06:02.500 --> 00:06:08.520 plenty of time to just film everything sequentially you actually don't have your lead actor i mean the 00:06:08.520 --> 00:06:12.000 other the other thing i was thinking about this the other thing is that they seem to have actually 00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:20.839 filmed a lot of the new seasons of doctor who i.e the the kind of rtd2 era of doctor who 00:06:21.380 --> 00:06:23.680 before any of it started airing. 00:06:24.700 --> 00:06:29.420 So they seem to go straight into filming 2025 season. 00:06:29.750 --> 00:06:32.200 I don't know why they have this new pattern 00:06:32.210 --> 00:06:33.740 because only so far ahead you can get. 00:06:34.280 --> 00:06:37.500 But I'm not complaining because I like these episodes 00:06:38.220 --> 00:06:40.840 where you don't necessarily have 00:06:41.820 --> 00:06:43.860 either the doctor or the companion 00:06:44.300 --> 00:06:47.540 as the lead character who you're following. 00:06:47.760 --> 00:06:48.560 They're in the background. 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:51.980 They may still be the most important characters in it. 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:56.020 I'm thinking about, you know, Blink as the template for this. 00:06:56.200 --> 00:07:03.680 You're following a new-to-you protagonist, but the person who knows what's going on, 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:06.560 the person who's actually pulling all of the strings in the background, 00:07:06.900 --> 00:07:09.780 is the doctor or the doctor and the companion. 00:07:11.380 --> 00:07:15.580 The bad news is the sex education came to an end. 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:19.200 So, unfortunately... 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:23.480 actually watched it yet so i well i i don't know whether it's good or bad in terms of whether the 00:07:23.620 --> 00:07:28.000 show or whether i'd like it or not it's just that they won't be filming anymore which means 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:37.520 shooty gatwick can concentrate his time on doctor who yeah yeah okay not good but well i i see i i 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:43.240 don't i'm i'm going to i'm going to kick off i think i mean this is taking the episode back to 00:07:43.140 --> 00:07:46.480 because most of Shudy Gatva, he's at the end of the episode. 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:55.140 And I thought his performance, when you get the kind of final reveal, 00:07:55.460 --> 00:08:00.160 the final twist in this episode, was the most interesting thing he's done so far. 00:08:00.760 --> 00:08:02.280 I've kind of been a bit... 00:08:02.640 --> 00:08:06.320 I liked him in the first episode because the running around, 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.100 or maybe it wasn't even the Christmas special, 00:08:09.200 --> 00:08:13.560 or maybe it was the giggle, because he had 20 minutes or so in that. 00:08:13.740 --> 00:08:16.020 But it was when we first saw him, 00:08:16.660 --> 00:08:20.640 the kind of running around and being super manic and exciting and energetic 00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:21.880 was novel. 00:08:23.380 --> 00:08:26.780 And then the kind of jumping up and down going, 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:30.600 isn't everything wonderful, hugging each other all of the time, 00:08:31.300 --> 00:08:33.219 started to get a little bit tedious. 00:08:34.060 --> 00:08:38.000 And I felt that his performance, I wouldn't say one note, 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:38.880 I would say two notes. 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:45.540 It was either on that pitch or it was the kind of subdued, 00:08:46.040 --> 00:08:48.760 the universe is in danger and everything is going to come to an end 00:08:48.900 --> 00:08:52.680 and I'm so worried about it, I'm not even going to explain why, 00:08:52.780 --> 00:08:54.200 that we saw in The Devil's Court. 00:08:54.880 --> 00:09:02.540 But the reaction to Lindy kind of straight up turning him down, 00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:06.080 I'm not going to go with you or the likes of you, 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:08.240 well, you, sir, are not one of us. 00:09:09.540 --> 00:09:12.680 The way he laughed in disbelief 00:09:12.690 --> 00:09:15.980 and that just turned into a kind of scream of anguish. 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:17.900 I just thought that was a really... 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:19.980 If I think about... 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:21.740 I mean, for obvious reasons, 00:09:22.110 --> 00:09:23.900 none of the other doctors would have been in that situation, 00:09:24.260 --> 00:09:29.880 but the kind of angry face for Tennant or Capaldi or whatever 00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:34.439 would not have been as complex or as interesting 00:09:34.460 --> 00:09:37.460 as the performance that Gass were gave in that scene. 00:09:38.060 --> 00:09:42.439 So I've kind of got a little bit more faith 00:09:43.300 --> 00:09:47.640 or hope at least for there being more depth 00:09:48.060 --> 00:09:49.820 than I was perhaps worrying about. 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:56.960 I mean, I am not convinced that 15 seconds of acting 00:09:57.780 --> 00:10:00.520 is enough to make me think he's turned the corner. 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:02.320 It's more than 15 seconds, 00:10:02.420 --> 00:10:04.120 but also it's kind of, it's a critical moment. 00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:09.700 you say he's kind of two note and i would have gone with one but i see your point about the 00:10:09.760 --> 00:10:15.280 second note but there's something else that i've noticed i have seen and then maybe it's an act 00:10:15.820 --> 00:10:22.900 okay it may very well be an act but i've seen two or three interviews or late night show sessions 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:32.739 with shudigawa and whenever i see him and then when i see him as the doctor i'm reminded of all 00:10:32.760 --> 00:10:40.240 the people that used to say the third doctor is just john pertwee that's john pertwee being john 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:48.060 pertwee shooty gatwick's doctor is shooty gatwick that seems to be his personality it's not unless 00:10:48.260 --> 00:10:52.340 he's acting in those interviews well obviously he's acting in the interviews that's what actors 00:10:52.520 --> 00:11:00.139 do but but but but i i do think there's a sense in which if you're planning to be in in a show 00:11:00.160 --> 00:11:05.380 where you're playing the lead you're normally i mean obviously past two episodes aside you're 00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:10.640 normally in pretty much every scene in the show and it's a long-running show you need to lean into 00:11:11.110 --> 00:11:19.140 that right acting is not about disguising yourself necessarily it's about putting yourself in or 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:26.040 putting your well it is yourself but yourself and your character into different situations and and 00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:29.260 finding the kind of reactions to that. 00:11:29.260 --> 00:11:32.740 And I think if you're a character actor, 00:11:32.830 --> 00:11:34.780 you can do much more of that kind of, 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:37.980 you literally won't recognise who I am. 00:11:38.070 --> 00:11:44.100 Like I re-watched Glorious 39 the other day 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:47.940 and I'd forgotten who was in it, 00:11:48.060 --> 00:11:52.120 but Juno Temple, who you'll know from Ted Lasso, 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:54.820 played a role in that. 00:11:55.180 --> 00:12:00.460 It's kind of a, for those who don't know Glorious 39, it's kind of a period drama. 00:12:01.210 --> 00:12:03.180 And she's playing kind of period character. 00:12:03.210 --> 00:12:04.840 And she's completely unrecognizable. 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:06.500 Completely unrecognizable. 00:12:07.180 --> 00:12:10.840 And you can do that because it's a fairly minor character. 00:12:11.800 --> 00:12:20.080 But I'm not sure that you can kind of expect to do that week in, week out, when that is your job for six months, a year. 00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:29.400 I don't really feel like I'm watching Peter Capaldi or Matt Smith when they're playing the Doctor. 00:12:29.730 --> 00:12:35.520 I don't think that's Matt Smith in real life, and I don't think that's Peter Capaldi in real life. 00:12:35.880 --> 00:12:39.060 I obviously don't know Matt Smith in real life. 00:12:39.270 --> 00:12:42.480 I find that hard to gauge, but I suspect it. 00:12:42.730 --> 00:12:47.180 I think Capaldi may be a little bit different because he is a character actor. 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:50.680 So those are the roles that he's kind of played. 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:52.580 And also he's just phenomenal. 00:12:53.319 --> 00:12:55.760 I mean, I've seen them in interviews too, 00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:59.800 and they're not playing the same. 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:01.780 But they're playing something in interviews. 00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:04.020 And I think the other thing about Capaldi 00:13:04.140 --> 00:13:07.620 is that he's a much, much more private kind of individual. 00:13:07.820 --> 00:13:11.000 If you compare Tennant, say, 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.940 I mean, even then, I don't know how you know who Tennant is. 00:13:14.040 --> 00:13:16.900 You see Tennant doing interviews and he's playing. 00:13:17.620 --> 00:13:24.120 Tennant doing an interview but you also have the privilege of watching Tennant in staged playing 00:13:24.920 --> 00:13:29.520 David Tennant in his own home or whatever and you know that's not him either you can listen to him 00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:35.420 doing his podcast you know that's not him either the performance is always a performance in whatever 00:13:35.640 --> 00:13:42.240 situation it's in the only people who can judge whether that's truly who they are is are the 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:47.240 people who actually know them personally i think the closest you can come is to say how similar 00:13:48.020 --> 00:13:54.540 are the performances they give to each other and like whether that's the performances they give on 00:13:54.640 --> 00:14:00.060 chat shows or whether that's two dramatic performances how similar are they i think that's 00:14:00.160 --> 00:14:05.919 different i think that's where i would say capaldi is someone who gives very very different performances 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:12.560 in different shows that he's in and even you know i mean tenant who is a phenomenal actor more so 00:14:12.630 --> 00:14:22.320 than tenant i think well time will tell i suppose but uh anyway um i mean okay so he here is i i 00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:26.220 let off this a little bit earlier i don't know that i i don't know that i got an answer from 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:32.420 you whether you like this episode or not yes i like the episode i thought i mean it was an 00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:40.560 interesting episode it wasn't it wasn't necessarily my favorite episode even of this season but it's 00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:50.560 on a level in in my view with 73 yard boom it well i to me to me it feels like we had those first 00:14:51.190 --> 00:14:57.260 two episodes that were pretty dreadful and i just thought oh god this is you know this is the 00:14:57.560 --> 00:15:04.460 standard of things to come and then actually since then i've enjoyed every episode in slightly 00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:12.260 different ways this is interesting in the sense that it's got a really kind of charlie brooker 00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:19.460 vibe i feel like dog on it i was going there but all right okay no i think it's a charlie brooker 00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:25.260 vibe except for the fact that it's an incompetent charlie brooker vibe that is where i have my well 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:32.440 rtd cannot do this if this is his example of trying to do biting social satire he should 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:39.060 have picked a lane and stuck with it and and tried and i don't think it's a bunch of interesting 00:15:39.400 --> 00:15:46.760 ideas strung together without much logical cohesion and so i'm i'm i'm i'm gonna go the 00:15:46.760 --> 00:15:51.979 other way charlie brooker couldn't do this charlie brooker would have done something different 00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:54.380 but it looks like Charlie Brooker. 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:58.240 This is the sense of... 00:15:58.760 --> 00:16:05.420 Because, you know, if you remember when Netflix put a load of money in... 00:16:05.420 --> 00:16:06.000 This is a bit... 00:16:06.500 --> 00:16:09.860 Imagine that, an established TV show and then some streaming service 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.500 suddenly pours a load of money into it. 00:16:12.660 --> 00:16:15.720 If you remember when Netflix put a load of money into Black Mirror 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.599 and suddenly they were able to do visuals 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:24.340 like the kind of graphics we get in this representing the bubble. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:30.560 This, in terms of its visual appearance, the kind of highly stylized look, 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:36.740 the way in which all of those effects meld into the kind of costume design and all the rest of it, 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.760 this looks like that kind of Black Mirror stuff. 00:16:41.380 --> 00:16:47.780 But this isn't a satire on technology, whereas I think almost all of the Black Mirror stuff, 00:16:48.300 --> 00:16:51.880 it's about what they could do. 00:16:52.170 --> 00:16:53.980 I mean, it's obviously not about the technology, 00:16:54.160 --> 00:16:56.380 but it's about what the technology says about us. 00:16:56.490 --> 00:16:58.840 Whereas the technology here is incidental in my view. 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:03.680 I don't know if that was your take, but even in, well, I don't know. 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:05.939 I don't know that I agree with it, that black mirror, 00:17:06.600 --> 00:17:09.720 when it puts out the technology, it, and I admit, 00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:14.040 I haven't seen all of black mirror, um, um, bits here and there. 00:17:14.459 --> 00:17:17.020 And just, and I, and I love Charlie Brooker's work. 00:17:17.300 --> 00:17:20.140 I hit episodes of Black Mirror I can't take. 00:17:20.560 --> 00:17:23.160 So I watch a bit and then I don't watch it. 00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:26.959 But it's still, even though it's about the technology, 00:17:27.030 --> 00:17:31.000 it still has to be about how the people are impacted by the technology. 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:36.680 And so this has to be a bit about social media and social media addiction. 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:42.600 And, you know, I see a whole bunch of things like this doesn't know what to attack. 00:17:43.340 --> 00:17:46.300 Yeah, I don't know what this is designed to go after. 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:47.980 Is it designed to go after social media? 00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:57.220 If it's designed to go after racism, it's, you know, pretty late in the game before you catch that one, which is OK if it lands at home, if it lands home. 00:17:58.260 --> 00:18:02.080 And, you know, is it about the dangers of A.I.? 00:18:02.120 --> 00:18:06.020 Because, you know, they're just going to they're just going to decide we're not worth they're going to kill us. 00:18:06.600 --> 00:18:13.500 Or is it about how awful rich people are, you know, but all of those things are the mix and it's just too. 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.260 It just doesn't gel for me. 00:18:16.580 --> 00:18:40.680 So, you see, for me, the question was, what was the bubble? And I thought it was going to be the bubble is technology isolates us from each other. But it's not that, right? This is a community that is deliberately isolating themselves. They are, as it turns out, preserving their purity. 00:18:41.620 --> 00:18:43.720 I didn't get that at first. 00:18:44.270 --> 00:18:48.180 And I also have to, like, full disclosure, 00:18:49.060 --> 00:18:52.480 I have to say I did not register the lack of diversity 00:18:53.120 --> 00:18:54.940 until that final scene. 00:18:55.640 --> 00:19:01.720 I was like, I guess I just thought it was all part of the, 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:05.340 this is the kind of appearance of this. 00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:07.120 Because it's not Earth. 00:19:07.190 --> 00:19:07.820 It's not humans. 00:19:08.210 --> 00:19:08.400 Right. 00:19:08.770 --> 00:19:09.260 We don't know. 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.420 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Which I think was intentional. 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:33.800 Yeah, it was kind of intentional from the way in which they were very stylized. You know, it could have been, wasn't exactly Sylvia Anderson, but it was a certain perspective on what the future looks like. 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:53.660 But obviously, an integral part of what the future looks like within the kind of this story is it's white, because that's the way that this society has ensured that, you know, this is a colony that has gone off to live there racially pure. 00:19:53.800 --> 00:19:54.140 Wait a minute. 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:54.460 Wait a minute. 00:19:56.020 --> 00:19:56.440 Is it? 00:19:57.040 --> 00:19:57.280 Yes. 00:19:57.740 --> 00:19:59.880 Is the planet that way, too? 00:20:00.600 --> 00:20:03.000 Because I don't there's no evidence one way or the other. 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:08.960 as to whether or not they're in the world they're all wiped out too so the ai came to the exact same 00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:15.480 conclusion they're all down there in their bubbles i think and i mean all the evidence we've got is 00:20:15.540 --> 00:20:24.380 that all those people were in bubbles too but were they all white uh or were only rich people white 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:33.100 and they only sent their rich kids to the colony i i don't i don't know no no well no i i i i 00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:44.460 I may be taking a lot from that line about being pioneers, but I think this is the whole society. 00:20:44.990 --> 00:20:45.720 It's possible. 00:20:46.120 --> 00:21:03.840 And if that's the case, I kind of think that there was a lot of there were a lot of clues they could have built in there that were a little didn't need to be complete reveals, but they needed to be a little bit more solid to make it to bring home the racism thing. 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:12.420 because you know i i watched it and i'm like i think they're talking maybe about him being black 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:23.400 and they did use the word voodoo which has has some connotations there but you know my wife 00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:29.480 didn't see it i don't think it landed they could have i think it's incredibly well judged i i think 00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:38.260 I think it's one of those where you can see everything once you know. 00:21:38.760 --> 00:21:44.900 And I think it's hidden behind the fact that, so for example, all of Lindy's kind of reactions, 00:21:45.940 --> 00:21:52.140 all of those kind of dismissive, standoffish rudeness, all that kind of stuff, 00:21:52.600 --> 00:21:59.200 can be connected with it you know it's that initial misdirection around this is this is 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:07.500 about social media and this is about your kind of closed network and also what we bring to it 00:22:07.840 --> 00:22:13.500 is you know when we look at the character of the doctor what i think we're seeing first and 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:20.660 foremost is the doctor but one of the one of the things about the doctor right that we know people 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:27.200 are going to react to is he's quite abrasive that i mean not necessarily always but there is 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:33.680 there is definitely that traditional through hartnell and baker c and capaldi the doctor 00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:40.780 can be quite abrasive and he will tell people truths that they may not want to hear and he does 00:22:40.830 --> 00:22:47.200 a certain amount of that in this episode and you can read some of lindy's rudeness and reactions 00:22:47.300 --> 00:22:54.600 as being about that but in the end you know they're not well but it maybe except that lindy 00:22:54.700 --> 00:23:03.300 is a horrible person yeah um i mean she has ricky who is very white and very much somebody she 00:23:04.180 --> 00:23:12.420 uh is is enamored of i and that may not be the right word but a huge fan of and yet she 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:22.860 kills him dead with her words intentional but yes she does she does she absolutely does so i mean 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:28.480 she doesn't need racism there for her to be an awful person she is an awful person i do think 00:23:28.540 --> 00:23:35.120 it's interesting that the doctor never finds out about that um you know that that information is 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:40.640 left off the table it's just for us in the audience to see how how horrible she really is 00:23:40.660 --> 00:23:48.560 and yeah yeah yeah although although you know i again i i think and a lot of this i'd no idea who 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:54.980 cali cook is um never seen it to my knowledge never seen her in anything else before but it is 00:23:55.480 --> 00:24:00.820 a really interesting performance it's not a perfect performance there are certain things i 00:24:00.980 --> 00:24:08.160 didn't particularly like but there's a lot of complexity in it and she is because because 00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:15.840 the doctor and to some extent Ruby are backgrounded in this episode she is the lead character she has 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:24.540 to carry the episode and as you say she is she's quite horrible quite unsympathetic so I think it's 00:24:24.540 --> 00:24:29.720 an impressive performance from that point of view you know she's not it's not there are shades of 00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:36.060 gray there right she she she has reactions she has feelings you know when when she discovers her mum 00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:41.200 has died or whatever you you kind of see all that registering she's not sort of coming out and 00:24:41.340 --> 00:24:48.620 saying oh my god that's terrible but you can see that despite her words about lucky mum that's kind 00:24:48.620 --> 00:24:58.400 of hitting her hard and the stuff about when obviously you know having just come from that 00:24:58.540 --> 00:25:04.400 situation in which she has basically sacrificed ricky she lies about him she lies about what 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:11.000 she's done and that again sort of tells a certain amount about her which is that she cares about 00:25:11.120 --> 00:25:17.040 what people think about her right well that's what social media is all about well indeed and so that 00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:24.720 you know that's a alarm well i think it's more than that it's it's more than that i mean i care 00:25:24.860 --> 00:25:32.640 what other people think about me sure but i also care about people not thinking i had him murdered 00:25:33.320 --> 00:25:39.460 yeah i mean that might even be a crime in fine time that might be a crime there i mean that's 00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:45.540 that is a step beyond oh the social mortification if they find out that you know i wear the wrong 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:51.980 kind of underwear or something you know that i don't think i don't think she killed him i don't 00:25:52.100 --> 00:26:00.360 think i don't think there's a crime there i mean i don't know the fine time um statutes there may be 00:26:00.860 --> 00:26:08.760 a law against providing information that to that you know will cause that person to be killed 00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:15.820 yeah that wouldn't that wouldn't be a that wouldn't be a crime under english law as far 00:26:15.820 --> 00:26:21.460 as i'm aware isn't that i mean is that much different from paying someone to kill him 00:26:22.220 --> 00:26:26.580 yes i mean you are you are arranging for someone else to kill somebody else instead of you 00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:32.280 you know that's uh i'm not sure i think there's some i think there might be some culpability 00:26:32.430 --> 00:26:37.180 there but anyway um there might be certainly from there but we can talk about it morally 00:26:38.040 --> 00:26:43.260 legally we go but morally she's guilty of sin yeah i think from the from the from the point 00:26:43.300 --> 00:26:52.200 of view of what she has done it's something that she knows is not a nice thing to have done i mean 00:26:52.220 --> 00:26:59.400 And whether you can kind of say she should have sacrificed herself to save him, which is the flip side of it, I don't know. 00:26:59.450 --> 00:27:05.320 But that would be the thing where you would say, well, you know, I can live with myself, 00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.500 except you can't live with yourself because you would have been sacrificed. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:13.300 But the point is she's done something that she knows is somewhat dishonorable. 00:27:14.260 --> 00:27:19.960 So there are kind of aspects of her character that aren't just sort of out and out. 00:27:20.520 --> 00:27:24.840 If this were the master, let's say, the master wouldn't be lying about it. 00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:42.860 The master wouldn't be a nice person, but the badness of the master is not to do with dishonest-ish, to do more with the shrinking people to death, etc., etc., taking over the universe. 00:27:43.760 --> 00:27:55.820 Incidentally, just mentioning the master reminded me of something that I was thinking while you were talking about whether there is that kind of depth that I hope there is in Judy Gatwa's performance. 00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.880 So I'm just going to throw back to that for a moment. 00:28:00.020 --> 00:28:14.440 I think there is an element in the way in which the kind of showrunner shapes the performance that, you know, may not be a true reflection of Gatwa's capabilities. 00:28:15.560 --> 00:28:26.460 And so what I was reminded of was John Sim and the fact that in the RTD episodes that he appeared as the master, he gave a certain performance. 00:28:27.320 --> 00:28:31.940 And in the Moffat episode that he gave, that he appears as a master, he gave a different performance. 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:33.620 He gave a good performance. 00:28:34.520 --> 00:28:34.700 Indeed. 00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:47.480 That I think was much more, certainly from what he said at the time of doing that performance in The Doctor Falls, was much more in line with what he would have liked to have done. 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:55.180 So I think there is an element of RTD knows what he's looking for from these actors. 00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:02.300 and they may be to a degree constrained by it anyway sorry that was a sort of sidestep from 00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:11.420 from lindy and uh her hiding what she'd done um i'm gonna say you know with the possible exception 00:29:11.580 --> 00:29:17.940 with the possible exception of ricky september well 100 agree with the dots kill them all just 00:29:18.280 --> 00:29:22.200 there was yes that's why i don't know i don't think it was about ai going bad because in a way 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:24.680 I was like, yeah, I kind of sympathize with the AI here. 00:29:25.860 --> 00:29:35.360 I did actually think, though, at one point during the course of the episode that when Lindy was explaining about how they were a colony of all the rich kids, I'm like, oh, of course. 00:29:35.800 --> 00:29:38.400 The parents sent them to this planet to die. 00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:43.460 This is where you send your obnoxious, filthy rich kids who are just spoiled beyond belief. 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:46.200 Send them up there and let the monsters eat them. 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:48.040 That, I love it. 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:48.800 Eat the rich. 00:29:49.520 --> 00:29:51.600 And then, yeah, they fouled that up. 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:54.420 I think I would have liked that a little bit better. 00:29:55.080 --> 00:29:57.320 I will say that, like I say, 00:29:58.020 --> 00:29:59.800 Ricky September was kind of okay, 00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:03.120 but his rendition of little itsy-bitsy, 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:05.220 teeny-weeny, yellow, polka-dot bikini 00:30:05.780 --> 00:30:08.260 was bad enough for me to put him on the kill list. 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:09.600 There you go, you wish. 00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:11.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:30:12.620 --> 00:30:15.340 I mean, I wouldn't have, if any of them had survived, 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:16.600 he would have been the one, 00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:18.720 because he reads books and turns his bubble off 00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:20.600 and can still walk. 00:30:20.660 --> 00:30:26.780 but um i you're just condemning lindy for doing something you've admitted you to do yourself so 00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:31.660 i wouldn't do it like that though you kill him some other way you kill him with your bare hands 00:30:31.840 --> 00:30:37.620 that's not the same no i just let the algorithm get to him i would worry about saving my life i 00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:42.940 would not save my life at the expense of someone else's that's the difference which is what she did 00:30:43.180 --> 00:30:49.080 she bought time for herself by putting someone else on the chopping block and that is not what 00:30:49.040 --> 00:30:53.320 i'm talking about just saying that if you've got a list if you're an ai and you're out there and 00:30:53.320 --> 00:31:00.580 you're taking people out i can you're saying that it's it's not okay to kill someone to save your 00:31:00.610 --> 00:31:06.460 own life no it's also okay to kill someone because you don't like their itsy witsy teeny weeny yellow 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:13.420 polka dock bikini rendition no no no no no no no it is okay for me as a person in the audience 00:31:14.100 --> 00:31:21.000 trying to second guess and quarterback the the the writer of a fictional episode where these 00:31:21.140 --> 00:31:28.280 people aren't really going to die for me to say that character needs to die but for lindy who is 00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:34.080 the character and for ricky who are the character that has to be consistent in world and she 00:31:34.580 --> 00:31:39.960 absolutely killed him and that is wrong it's not wrong for me to want the character written out of 00:31:39.780 --> 00:31:47.380 the show because that's not that truly is not a crime so it's like no i i see a different i see a 00:31:47.520 --> 00:31:55.800 huge moral equivalence there between me saying that you know i i hope that they all fall in a 00:31:55.870 --> 00:32:02.560 meat grinder looking forward you know in scene four and then it not happening and for in the 00:32:02.780 --> 00:32:06.960 episode the people to push each other in a meat grind it's like yeah but that's a bit over the 00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:12.280 line i'm just i'm just talking about the writer and he's a he's a jerk there's a there's definitely 00:32:12.280 --> 00:32:21.640 a difference here between action and uh delayed second part through the writer uh wishes um but 00:32:21.840 --> 00:32:27.100 yeah that that that yeah i mean if they could have done anything to make that more obnoxious i don't 00:32:27.100 --> 00:32:31.980 know what it would have been let's see by the way what is the point of this episode that some people 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:37.540 aren't worth saving no i don't think that is the point because i think i think the doctor is very 00:32:37.740 --> 00:32:43.940 genuinely i think the doctor is very genuinely trying to save them i think the ending is 00:32:45.020 --> 00:32:50.600 essentially a tragedy and i think that is partly why it is important there are those kinds of 00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:57.179 shades of shades of gray within these characters i mean i do agree they're all pretty kind of 00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:05.520 objectionable but i i i think i think i think it's important in the way i mean i'm sure i'm 00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:11.020 sure this won't be the kind of the end of what we see about the consequences of having a black 00:33:11.340 --> 00:33:16.720 doctor all right i guess it'll be interesting to see if we do get i mean we've had black writers 00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:24.919 on doctor who before but not at the same time as having a black doctor and i i kind of think 00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:30.640 this will come back but but the interesting thing about the consequences of their racism being not 00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:38.740 a direct effect on the doctor himself it's a direct effect on them you know they are they 00:33:38.840 --> 00:33:46.040 are the principal victims of it in this story yeah yeah i it's a another episode i don't know 00:33:46.040 --> 00:33:50.740 if we want to go through and count them this is another episode where the doctor does not save the 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:58.020 day that that's that is a kind of rtd sing i guess maybe not that the doctor doesn't save the day i 00:33:58.120 --> 00:34:05.760 guess no rtd sing is high body count but yeah that whatever that whatever it is it's at a cost 00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:11.580 and yeah part of that is the doctor not saving it i have to say i rather like those episodes 00:34:11.919 --> 00:34:20.080 it's not important to me that the doctor saves everyone it's important that the doctor tries but 00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:33.800 One of my favourite stories, my favourite Doctor Who stories, remains Creatures of Beauty, which is an audio story, a Peter Davison audio story from Big Finish. 00:34:34.240 --> 00:34:49.520 And I don't want to kind of spoil it, but the doctor's role in that is a lot more complex than what you would typically get, which is the doctor turns up somewhere, discovers bad things are happening. 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:51.419 There is stuff. 00:34:51.889 --> 00:34:53.540 The doctor stops bad things happening. 00:34:54.379 --> 00:34:59.980 You know, some people die, but in the end, everyone's happy because the doctor has stopped bad things happening. 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:01.980 Doctor goes and moves on to the next one. 00:35:02.060 --> 00:35:08.400 and this is you know at least one step away from that the doctor turns up somewhere bad things are 00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:13.600 happening there is stuff some people die the doctor tries to stop bad things happening doctor 00:35:13.820 --> 00:35:19.740 doesn't stop bad things from happening everyone dies yeah um do you think this is the writer or 00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:27.740 the director's uh fault um lindy drops her bubble and uh she's been walking her whole life you know 00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.020 one foot in front of the other and sure she's been following an arrow but uh 00:35:32.040 --> 00:35:44.660 Uh, when she tries to walk out of the room, looking straight ahead at what she's trying to go to, uh, how come she keeps turning to the side and bumping into things? 00:35:45.580 --> 00:35:55.740 I felt like that was incompetently directed. It's like, okay, I can't, I can't buy that. I could buy that you, I, I have trouble buying any of that notion. 00:35:55.820 --> 00:36:02.440 Now, if you sat in the chair all day and the chair drove you around and then you got up and you're like, oh, I can't walk because I can't walk. 00:36:02.680 --> 00:36:08.920 But they're they're all walking and talking and probably even chewing gum from time to time. 00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:14.960 And then without an arrow pointing straight ahead, you can't walk straight ahead. 00:36:15.620 --> 00:36:19.740 I could see how you might go. Oh, am I supposed to turn before I hit that wall? 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.280 Oh, wait, no, I can't see that either. 00:36:22.780 --> 00:36:34.480 But but but that particular scene was so bad that was so poor where she just kept veering off to the side and hitting the desk that I was like, how did that get past? 00:36:35.060 --> 00:36:36.820 I don't know any anybody. 00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:41.540 I can understand having problems navigating. 00:36:42.070 --> 00:36:49.980 I cannot have understand why you can't put one foot in front of the other, that there is no there's no physiological reason why you can't do that. 00:36:50.080 --> 00:36:55.240 And also, everyone sure got over that fast, didn't they, by the end of the episode? 00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:02.620 I'm going to say I don't think that you can separate out the writer from the... 00:37:03.259 --> 00:37:12.920 As executive producer, RTD has an awful lot more influence than another writer, any other writer, would have on how the episode finally appears. 00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:19.380 So I'm going to say I don't think that it's just down to the director. 00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:21.480 Obviously, I don't know a lot about Dylan Holmes Williams. 00:37:22.040 --> 00:37:23.600 He directed 73 Yards. 00:37:23.720 --> 00:37:25.340 I thought that was very well directed. 00:37:26.020 --> 00:37:33.960 I think the idea that without the bubble you have difficulty walking wasn't a very good idea. 00:37:34.700 --> 00:37:42.100 And I think in terms of the writing, this episode feels really well paced. 00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:45.200 These are short episodes. 00:37:45.580 --> 00:37:52.800 They're under 45 minutes and we've had entire seasons where we've had 50 minutes, 50 minute episodes. 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:57.320 Plus Chibnall has managed to get quite a number of 60 minute episodes. 00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:07.960 And this episode, if you're going to have a short episode, this episode feels like it's got an idea that you can do justice to within the time. 00:38:07.970 --> 00:38:11.340 You know, it's not overflowing with stuff in the way that, you know, maybe Boom was. 00:38:11.600 --> 00:38:16.400 I could imagine you could have got a double episode out of Boom farther than liked it. 00:38:16.420 --> 00:38:17.820 You got a double episode out of Boom. 00:38:18.460 --> 00:38:22.600 So this was generally pretty well paced, but it could have done with trimming. 00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:26.560 If you'd taken that idea out of it, it would have improved the episode. 00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:27.640 It just annoyed me. 00:38:28.300 --> 00:38:28.460 Yeah. 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:30.780 Let's see. 00:38:31.300 --> 00:38:32.180 Let's talk about the bubbles. 00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:38.280 So I can't even repeat one of my comments here. 00:38:38.300 --> 00:38:39.760 I'll have to censor it. 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:41.980 But let's start with the one that's not a problem. 00:38:42.460 --> 00:38:44.540 How old are you when you get a bubble? 00:38:45.180 --> 00:38:49.860 I mean, what do parents do when their kid's in a bubble or when their kid's not old enough to have a bubble? 00:38:50.560 --> 00:38:51.800 Do they have to take their bubble? 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:58.040 Do they, you know, do you learn to walk before you get a bubble or does the bubble teach you how to walk? 00:38:59.580 --> 00:39:04.220 It's like I don't think that's all that logical. 00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:18.340 And the other one that I want to ask and translating this, do they have to turn them off when they are intimate and attempting to breed the next generation of Nazi fascist racist pigs? 00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:24.540 Or do they keep the bubble on and does it like put up fantasies for them? 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:36.300 I'm not sure that they do natural biological procreation, given that the hugging seemed to be a bit unfamiliar. 00:39:36.580 --> 00:39:38.400 That's true. That's true. 00:39:41.700 --> 00:39:45.420 I don't even I don't even want to try to contemplate what that might look like now. 00:39:48.740 --> 00:39:53.080 OK. Yeah. All right. Time for your visit to the clinic today. 00:39:53.300 --> 00:40:00.340 um i i do you know a couple things i mean this is this is in the nitpick character but i just feel 00:40:00.540 --> 00:40:08.320 like that an ai computer smart enough to realize that these people all deserve to die i just don't 00:40:08.420 --> 00:40:15.760 think that it could be tricked by a name change i mean he's on the list they'll get to him when they 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:23.600 get to him if you'd said that to me like a year ago or certainly two years ago i would have 100% 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:33.500 agreed with you okay but since i know i have no problem believing this but but they have access 00:40:33.590 --> 00:40:37.820 to all the information that these people have right they get all their information through 00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:46.220 the bubble they all know this if lindy knows he changed his name so do the dots so you know 00:40:47.279 --> 00:40:54.260 and and and this is the more important this is my comment about chat gpt my comment is 00:40:55.279 --> 00:41:02.299 cannot alphabetize in the first place it it cannot alphabetize in the first place so if by walking 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:08.920 through an alphabetical list it's doing better than chat gpt and therefore i i fall back to my 00:41:09.160 --> 00:41:12.020 position it's like i think it's gotten well enough that it would not be fooled by that 00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:19.060 um but i'm not convinced and besides if she told chat gpt that his name is coombs 00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:24.900 chat gpt would just come back as oh i'm terribly sorry about that i'm gonna update his information 00:41:25.240 --> 00:41:32.280 that's coombs with a letter s right and you just like go right okay yeah fine 00:41:32.660 --> 00:41:38.320 so i mean i i i'm not i'm not convinced by that i mean it it had its moment it had its dramatic 00:41:38.520 --> 00:41:43.520 moment where she gets him killed because of that and if this had been if this had been pre-chat 00:41:44.140 --> 00:41:48.860 gpt i absolutely would have believed this was computer logic right computer logic would 00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:56.220 absolutely do that but not computer logic would not and i i think i'll take the i'll take the 00:41:56.220 --> 00:42:05.560 side is i just don't buy it but um gosh who was who was lindy's mother then i seem familiar somehow 00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:13.240 yeah she did look familiar somehow apparently she's dead so uh uh uh does she get killed oh 00:42:13.350 --> 00:42:20.220 here's okay so a couple things the first off is is this the same person pretending to be different 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:26.500 people or is this something like clara who's been split and splintered along the doctor's timeline 00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:31.880 living different lives and intersecting with the doctor's path i don't have an answer for that 00:42:32.020 --> 00:42:37.620 question i just or is it or is it there's a shortage of equity actors and they just had to 00:42:37.780 --> 00:42:44.160 use the same one each week it if they hadn't if they had apparently what rtd has said well 00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.360 considering that they wrote it in the script that they say hey wait haven't we seen her before 00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:56.900 i think kind of belies that rtd lies yes yes rtd lies but let's let's take another look at this 00:42:57.580 --> 00:43:05.920 so they recognized her all right consider wild blue yonder neither the doctor nor donna saw her 00:43:06.620 --> 00:43:12.740 she was not in the giggle nope she said good morning to mr newton before he went out to the 00:43:12.600 --> 00:43:20.740 tree they saw newton in the tree yeah i didn't see it okay okay so typical bat that that reminds 00:43:20.750 --> 00:43:26.220 me of the bad wolf reference in dalek where it's the helicopter pilots like there's a bad wolf one 00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:31.680 coming in when the doctor and rose were nowhere near or no not privileged to that call at all 00:43:31.940 --> 00:43:37.500 yeah you know okay but there you go church on ruby road you're carrying a grudge you know 19 years 00:43:37.540 --> 00:43:44.900 later drunk woman in the audience ruby was there doctor was not she might have recognized her 00:43:45.020 --> 00:43:53.880 no that was that no he was there for the uh disco not for the okay performance yep the the band 00:43:54.120 --> 00:43:59.960 performance um he was outside the band performance because that's when he stopped the thing falling 00:44:00.160 --> 00:44:05.240 on her but he wasn't in the as far as we can tell he wasn't in the room space babies they did both 00:44:05.240 --> 00:44:10.900 see her taped message okay in the devil's cord she was the tea lady i'm not even sure they 00:44:11.220 --> 00:44:17.380 interacted with her at all she's the tea lady i don't know if they i don't know if they had any 00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:22.920 interaction and i'm not going to go back to watch it because he it's going to be you know 30 or 40 00:44:23.040 --> 00:44:29.760 years before i go back to watch the devil's cord and i might die before then so you know i might 00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:36.880 luck out in boom she was the ambulance definitely they both saw that yes so i'm good with that 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:42.820 73 yards obviously the doctor did not see her because the doctor didn't exist or something 00:44:43.110 --> 00:44:49.560 yeah ruby saw her but she forgot it so it never happened yeah so what we have is maybe two 00:44:49.780 --> 00:44:58.760 appearances maybe two 2.5 appearances possibly for that for them to clog onto it it's kind of 00:44:59.240 --> 00:45:07.980 really and and and no offense to to miss twist she's pretty generic english old lady so i'm 00:45:08.430 --> 00:45:13.000 you know give her a different haircut and she could probably pass me five times on the street 00:45:13.090 --> 00:45:17.560 and i would not notice except of course i'd go what is an old english lady doing here 00:45:18.180 --> 00:45:26.100 but you know i don't know i so i i don't think that's earned frankly that they're starting to 00:45:26.120 --> 00:45:34.520 to recognize her but so i i i think that's strange i i or i put it another way if she did if they 00:45:35.220 --> 00:45:41.300 why would ruby recognize her in 73 yards and then not recognize her the next time she saw her 00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:48.980 or the no the same number of times you're like 73 yards that's undone but this is now the 00:45:49.200 --> 00:45:55.100 replacement the next you know this is the equivalent to seeing her in 73 yards for ruby 00:45:55.160 --> 00:46:01.800 right this is i i yes i agree ruby is more likely has seen her more times than the doctor has 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:07.700 definitely but i don't know and i know the doctor is supposed to be really clever but if the doctor 00:46:07.700 --> 00:46:12.500 were really clever he would have noticed her does really second time he saw her i thought so 00:46:12.660 --> 00:46:20.360 before he killed her oh you were i guess was it talking to her yeah um so i thought so um why do 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:22.880 the being killed might have sort of 00:46:23.300 --> 00:46:24.660 knocked it out of her mind 00:46:25.030 --> 00:46:25.660 for a minute there. 00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:28.000 It's possible. It's possible. 00:46:29.240 --> 00:46:30.000 I don't know. It just 00:46:30.680 --> 00:46:32.620 it doesn't feel earned 00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:34.460 here. I mean, I 00:46:34.590 --> 00:46:36.520 know they're going for, you know, coming 00:46:36.670 --> 00:46:38.500 into the finale. They've got to point 00:46:38.500 --> 00:46:40.440 it out. In case there's people in the audience 00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:41.800 who haven't noticed it. 00:46:42.370 --> 00:46:43.780 Yeah, yeah. No, I 00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:46.500 think the other way. I think it would 00:46:46.580 --> 00:46:48.620 be odd if Ruby noticed 00:46:48.640 --> 00:46:55.820 her in 73 yards but then and then we wound that back and then she sees her just as she did in 73 00:46:55.960 --> 00:47:01.060 yards but this time doesn't recognize her okay i'm not going to disagree with that i don't disagree 00:47:01.110 --> 00:47:07.400 with that uh i'm not entirely sure that ruby should have recognized her in 73 yards and certainly i 00:47:07.520 --> 00:47:15.840 don't think yeah you're familiar yeah yeah i i don't i don't yeah you generic person you you 00:47:15.820 --> 00:47:22.200 were kind of familiar yeah no i i i don't think it's i just i don't think it's working there uh 00:47:22.580 --> 00:47:31.600 let's see do i have anything specific i do say i do wonder if uh you know for of all the stuff 00:47:31.600 --> 00:47:38.620 there that bit about uh itsy bitsy teeny mini poke yellow dot bikini was a specific dig at tiktok 00:47:38.720 --> 00:47:46.940 where people spend a lot of time taking other people's songs and work and and doing stuff over 00:47:47.080 --> 00:47:51.800 it i'll take your words not i i don't know i don't have a tiktok account so i mean it's not 00:47:52.100 --> 00:47:56.380 like i can't but i you know i know that's where a lot of you know more about what's going on there 00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:04.220 than i do well you know us young people actually then i just wonder if that was if that was 00:48:04.900 --> 00:48:09.340 something because i could see how artists might not be keen on that or then on the other hand 00:48:09.350 --> 00:48:13.840 they might they're like oh they've got my song going and now i'm getting more record sales 00:48:14.520 --> 00:48:19.100 maybe i don't know i don't know which way it works but i also don't know if that was the original 00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:25.580 song he was singing to or whether that was him singing it it's been a very very long time since 00:48:25.580 --> 00:48:32.160 i heard that song and i'm you know i could let it be that for a long time to come although i'd 00:48:32.180 --> 00:48:38.980 you know rather listen to that on loop than see the devil's court again let's see i don't know if 00:48:38.980 --> 00:48:44.140 we want to if we want to have any commentary on the doctor's commentary on i think it was ricky 00:48:45.260 --> 00:48:52.960 hot uh or or not um really kind of not in character for the doctor this for this doctor 00:48:54.070 --> 00:48:59.859 yeah apparently let's see anything else i just want to say that i never thought i would see an 00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:06.020 episode that made kablam seem like biting insightful social commentary but now i have this is way 00:49:06.180 --> 00:49:13.500 better than kablam oh i don't know that i would agree i don't like i said i didn't hate it but 00:49:13.780 --> 00:49:22.560 it was it's like yeah i'm not i'm not i'm not like at this stage i am i am kind of still 00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:28.180 looking back on the chibnall era very fondly but that was not a good effort 00:49:30.020 --> 00:49:39.240 whereas this this was one of the better episodes of rtd2 so yeah i think i mentioned uh that my son 00:49:39.830 --> 00:49:47.640 uh had asked to at random had asked to see the husband's river song and a while yeah a while 00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:55.680 back and what's that one yeah and you know i seem to recall us not particularly being 00:49:56.560 --> 00:50:01.780 hugely enamored of it no but i don't i don't know but you know something i loved it 00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:07.340 watching it again i absolutely adored it i thought it was fantastically well done 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:14.580 and it may just be in comparison to what we're seeing and so yesterday he kind of randomly 00:50:14.600 --> 00:50:19.300 popped up and goes and i don't know where he's getting these from he says we should watch angels 00:50:19.560 --> 00:50:27.760 take manhattan good lord and and we watched that and it's still infinitely superior to anything 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:35.060 we've had this year it's like okay yeah yeah i mean like that you know yeah no he was he was 00:50:35.210 --> 00:50:42.640 good and angels take manhattan was a bad episode from one of the best kind of runs of of doctor 00:50:42.620 --> 00:50:58.320 So I get how, you know, it's difficult. There is an overlap, I think. You know, when I say Kablam was from a better season that was a worse episode than this, where this is a good episode from a bad season. There is that overlap. 00:50:58.660 --> 00:51:19.160 But there is also, I think, a way in which we do sometimes re-evaluate episodes and we come back to them because our expectations have changed or because maybe we've come into what I want the show to be right now and what it is are perhaps in a bit of conflict. 00:51:19.600 --> 00:51:25.400 If I come back and re-watch this season, I will do so with no illusions. 00:51:25.740 --> 00:51:31.280 I will be fully aware of what it is and I will be in a better position to enjoy it for what it is. 00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:44.560 And I think I have experienced that, you know, going back to RCD1 with, you know, some of the lockdown watch-alongs where I wouldn't necessarily have chosen a particular episode to watch, like The Stolen Earths, for example. 00:51:45.300 --> 00:51:48.900 But watching it again, I have enjoyed it a lot more than I expected. 00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:51.600 because I kind of, I'd already, 00:51:51.740 --> 00:51:54.120 I guess I'd already priced in the things I didn't like 00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:56.820 and I was more at liberty to enjoy the things 00:51:57.060 --> 00:51:58.200 that I maybe hadn't noticed. 00:51:59.220 --> 00:52:01.600 Perhaps, perhaps in five years 00:52:02.040 --> 00:52:05.780 when Doctor Who is so much worse than it is now, 00:52:07.820 --> 00:52:09.140 we'll come back to these. 00:52:09.220 --> 00:52:12.620 I don't think it is just that. 00:52:12.620 --> 00:52:13.840 I don't think it is just that. 00:52:14.040 --> 00:52:18.780 But yeah, I also think, 00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:26.060 there is an element of giving it the benefit of time passing and i didn't hate flux when 00:52:26.560 --> 00:52:31.000 we were watching flux certainly i didn't hate as much as you hated it but now i'm kind of 00:52:31.780 --> 00:52:38.380 looking back on flux thinking and and the the the middle whitaker season i still kind of think 00:52:38.740 --> 00:52:45.580 there wasn't much in that that was uh worth particularly going back to but i yeah i thought 00:52:45.500 --> 00:52:51.660 was a lot about flux that with the benefit of hindsight was perhaps better than we get we i 00:52:52.120 --> 00:52:57.420 gave it credit for at the time and that's even with me giving it credit which you didn't uh do 00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:05.700 you have anything specific about this episode do you have some things i do yes um so one of them 00:53:05.910 --> 00:53:14.720 we kind of talked about it having uh echoes of black mirror i i thought there were echoes of 00:53:14.820 --> 00:53:23.100 a couple of other things some of which are other doctor who shows um the the whole the kind of the 00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:30.780 the bubble partly the bubble aesthetic and partly the kind of tapping into the zeitgeist stuff 00:53:31.180 --> 00:53:39.680 reminded me of some of this stuff about uh satellite five station one the the what was it 00:53:39.540 --> 00:53:45.900 what was it called in big bad wolf that yeah in bad wolf the or yeah all of that all of that stuff 00:53:46.060 --> 00:53:51.960 in bad bad wolf and also the long game kind of echoes as a long camera which one's which the 00:53:52.020 --> 00:53:57.240 one with the game shows and and the one with the game shows was bad weakest link and it's bad wolf 00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:01.720 yeah yeah yeah i thought of that one when i was watching this and i and i and i honestly thought 00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:07.240 about it and i said yep yep rtd just can't do this stuff well well i don't know about that because i 00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:09.820 I quite liked some of those episodes. 00:54:10.090 --> 00:54:14.700 I remember thinking, you know, the long game was not a memorable episode, 00:54:14.810 --> 00:54:17.900 but tonally there was something like that. 00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:20.020 And it's the tone that reminds me. 00:54:20.100 --> 00:54:22.900 The other episode where it's the tone, again, 00:54:22.970 --> 00:54:25.820 I don't think that thematically it goes the same way, 00:54:26.690 --> 00:54:31.300 was Smile from the final Capaldi season. 00:54:31.390 --> 00:54:32.100 Do you remember that one? 00:54:33.110 --> 00:54:33.220 Yeah. 00:54:33.460 --> 00:54:37.060 the same kind of social media vibe, 00:54:37.600 --> 00:54:40.720 but coupled with that kind of clean, futuristic aesthetic. 00:54:41.560 --> 00:54:42.280 Yeah, I can see that. 00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.140 The other thing, which had nothing to do with the aesthetics, 00:54:45.580 --> 00:54:49.160 but I couldn't believe that RTD wasn't thinking about this, 00:54:49.820 --> 00:54:52.040 was when he talked about alphabetical order. 00:54:52.160 --> 00:54:53.340 Did anything pop into your mind? 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:54.100 No? 00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:56.460 Wow Bangor the Infinitely Prolonged? 00:54:57.060 --> 00:54:59.680 The immortal alien from, I believe, 00:55:00.560 --> 00:55:02.020 Life, the Universe and Everything, 00:55:02.900 --> 00:55:13.100 Probably not in the original Doctor Who and the Cricketmen script that Douglas Adams wrote but was not used, on which that book is based. 00:55:13.740 --> 00:55:27.820 But an immortal alien who gets so bored that they decide that they will go through the entire population of the universe, insulting every single one of them in alphabetical order. 00:55:28.340 --> 00:55:30.960 Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I hadn't. 00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:31.640 Ring a bell? 00:55:32.220 --> 00:55:41.760 No, no. I mean, that, yes, that does ring a bell now that, now that you mentioned it, because he just popped up periodically through the books and would say something and disappear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:55:42.020 --> 00:55:57.660 No, I, it feels, it feels like, you know, the idea of the having, having disdain for the population and then expressing that in order, possibly insulting is a little more forgivable than murdering. 00:55:57.800 --> 00:55:57.940 Yeah. 00:55:58.500 --> 00:56:01.680 But, you know, it's, it's kind of coming from the same place. 00:56:02.020 --> 00:56:08.140 i do do wonder where those creatures came from yeah i yeah they postulated initially that they 00:56:08.260 --> 00:56:12.580 must have come from the wild outside but if that were true then how'd they get on the home planet 00:56:13.580 --> 00:56:19.540 first so i i mean i don't know maybe a baby one there must have been ships going back and forth 00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:24.500 there we go i don't think i don't know what's your point about well i think i think i don't i 00:56:24.530 --> 00:56:29.140 mean i do think it matters very much but also i think you know the ai was controlling the population 00:56:29.160 --> 00:56:32.260 and guiding how all that happened. 00:56:32.580 --> 00:56:35.520 So I think there are very feasible ways 00:56:35.640 --> 00:56:37.240 that that could have occurred. 00:56:37.960 --> 00:56:42.180 Yeah, the one thing I wanted to, you know, 00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:45.800 just in terms of talking about the Black Mirror-ness 00:56:46.820 --> 00:56:48.100 of this episode, 00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:52.280 why do you think we haven't had an episode of Doctor Who 00:56:52.420 --> 00:56:53.680 written by Charlie Brooker? 00:56:54.120 --> 00:56:56.160 I can tell you why we haven't had an episode 00:56:56.300 --> 00:56:57.300 written by Charlie Brooker. 00:56:58.020 --> 00:56:58.180 Why? 00:56:58.300 --> 00:56:58.800 They did. 00:56:59.160 --> 00:57:04.520 They called him and asked him to do it in 2017. 00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:06.860 I think he said it was 2017. 00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:08.240 I don't know. 00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:10.580 Would have been during Capaldi's time. 00:57:11.340 --> 00:57:11.640 Right. 00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:16.760 And he was too busy to do it. 00:57:17.220 --> 00:57:23.840 And he has said, I read an interview with him just today, in fact, he said, I really regret that because they haven't called me and asked again. 00:57:24.580 --> 00:57:24.980 Right. 00:57:25.260 --> 00:57:30.740 Well, I mean, in that case, I think my question still stands, which is, you know, why aren't they calling and asking again? 00:57:30.900 --> 00:57:34.000 Because that's the why aren't they making him the showrunner? 00:57:34.680 --> 00:57:45.280 Oh, well, I'm not sure I want to necessarily be the showrunner because I think there's a I'm not sure that there is quite the sympathy for the kind of show that Doctor Who is. 00:57:45.780 --> 00:57:49.860 I still think it would be really interesting for him to to contribute an episode. 00:57:50.820 --> 00:57:57.820 I mean, I thought 15 million merits from the first Black Mirror season was very Doctor Who-like. 00:57:58.380 --> 00:58:01.820 It felt to me like it could easily just slot into the show. 00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:09.980 But equally, I think if you cast your mind back to when RTD first brought the show back 00:58:10.580 --> 00:58:18.080 and he was getting people with a profile like Stephen Moffat and like Mark Gatiss, 00:58:18.680 --> 00:58:22.280 And in fact, like Stephen Fry, he got Stephen Fry to write an episode. 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:23.860 It's just Stephen Fry never delivered it. 00:58:24.500 --> 00:58:29.260 But getting writers like Charlie Brooker, you'd have thought he would be doing that. 00:58:29.260 --> 00:58:44.340 Now, I don't understand why he is writing so many of these episodes rather than using his kind of pull and the way, you know, he's so well connected that he could really be not just. 00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:48.740 I mean, I think Chibnall went out of his way to get kind of diversity of writers in, which was fantastic. 00:58:48.890 --> 00:58:50.960 And I wish RTD was doing that as well. 00:58:51.700 --> 00:58:59.020 But not just the diversity of the writers, but actually some of those writers could be really high profile writers. 00:59:00.500 --> 00:59:03.800 Yeah, I think you should definitely get some different writers in there. 00:59:04.300 --> 00:59:11.180 And I mean, I, you know, I have felt I have actually felt for quite a while that I think Charlie Brooker could do it. 00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:23.760 And I have seen enough about Charlie Brooker to know I think he is maybe not a Moffat level fan of Doctor Who, but I think he understands well enough to know that Doctor Who cannot be Black Mirror. 00:59:24.900 --> 00:59:25.560 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:59:26.600 --> 00:59:29.100 And that he could probably turn it in. 00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:32.360 And I, you know, it's like I have always thought that. 00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:39.100 And as I was trying to find out why he hasn't written, I saw several people going, oh, I really think Charlie Brooker should be the showrunner. 00:59:39.100 --> 00:59:40.560 And I'm like, oh, OK, I'm not alone here. 00:59:40.980 --> 00:59:50.420 Which was followed up by somebody saying, and I will agree with this person, is like, you know, I like Charlie Brooker and I would entertain that idea. 00:59:50.580 --> 00:59:55.820 But I don't think I would be willing to let anybody be a showrunner who hasn't at least written an episode for it yet. 00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:57.700 I mean, like, yeah, OK, fair enough. 00:59:58.780 --> 00:59:59.500 It's like, fair enough. 01:00:00.180 --> 01:00:01.700 Well, RTD won. 01:00:02.540 --> 01:00:02.720 He. 01:00:03.460 --> 01:00:03.840 I know. 01:00:04.200 --> 01:00:04.580 Well, OK. 01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:07.260 Maybe written a novel, but. 01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:09.260 Yeah, but that's a little bit different. 01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:17.380 yeah i don't i don't think that i don't think that would be my criterion but i'm yeah it wouldn't be 01:00:17.560 --> 01:00:22.020 i don't know whether i don't know whether charlie but i think charlie brooker could 01:00:22.640 --> 01:00:29.540 i think charlie brooker could write multiple interesting episodes but whether yeah i don't 01:00:29.660 --> 01:00:35.979 yeah whether i would like where he took the show in the fullness of time because i take your point 01:00:36.120 --> 01:00:37.780 I'm sure you could understand what the show is about. 01:00:38.180 --> 01:00:41.340 But if you're going to stick with it for a couple of seasons, 01:00:42.260 --> 01:00:44.260 if it's not what you really want it to be, 01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:45.500 you're going to get very bored. 01:00:45.600 --> 01:00:46.740 And if Charlie Brooker gets bored, 01:00:46.900 --> 01:00:49.240 he's going to change it into what he wants it to be. 01:00:50.020 --> 01:00:51.060 Like Jim O'Dea, you know. 01:00:51.620 --> 01:00:54.080 I'm not sure I'm willing for it to be that dark. 01:00:54.500 --> 01:00:56.600 That's basically my problem. 01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:03.980 I have one last thing that just crossed my mind, 01:01:04.600 --> 01:01:26.140 And that is, I did see an interview with RTD where he said that this story, he pitched, pitched maybe the wrong word, discussed with Stephen Moffat at, I don't know, Comic-Con or something, when Matt Smith was taking over as the doctor. 01:01:26.940 --> 01:01:27.740 So, he's- 01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:30.940 Well, RTD was going to write Moffat. 01:01:30.940 --> 01:01:31.540 I don't know. 01:01:31.620 --> 01:01:33.780 Well, see, that's why I didn't want to necessarily use the word pitch. 01:01:34.160 --> 01:01:38.280 So he brought this idea to Moffat and said, here, I've got this idea. 01:01:38.470 --> 01:01:41.060 And they talked about it and they both agreed there's no way they could do it. 01:01:42.299 --> 01:01:43.020 So technically. 01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:48.200 So, you know, now they're back and they can technically do it. 01:01:48.250 --> 01:01:55.220 So basically all the ideas that were not good enough to do back then because they didn't have a boatload of money. 01:01:56.040 --> 01:01:58.180 Now they can they can drag them up again. 01:01:59.300 --> 01:02:03.120 But, yeah, I don't know that he was going to write it for him or whether he was just here's a free idea. 01:02:03.200 --> 01:02:10.340 if you want to write it yourself or well the surprise was because rtd was very categorical 01:02:10.520 --> 01:02:16.540 that he would not yeah write any doctor who after he left yeah but rtd i mean that was the surprise 01:02:16.900 --> 01:02:22.220 that wise come back rtd lies yeah and you know we've talked about the fact that it would be very 01:02:22.420 --> 01:02:30.460 interesting to see an rtd episode that was written by the man but not controlled god likely by the 01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:36.520 him yeah yeah well when he's the showrunner he he makes all those kind of final decisions so having 01:02:37.080 --> 01:02:42.600 having someone else having that level of input on an rtd script so it was much more a kind of 01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:48.360 collaborative output would be interesting in my view do you have anything else i've got one last 01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:53.779 thing which i want to mention which is picking up on something that we've talked about before which 01:02:53.800 --> 01:03:01.720 is murray gold oh yeah i did you notice the score in this no i i haven't noticed the score in any of 01:03:01.720 --> 01:03:07.420 the episodes and i do notice the score in the matt smith ones and i and i was thinking about that 01:03:07.420 --> 01:03:15.540 and didn't write it down that his his his moffett era stuff was by far his best and this is just 01:03:16.100 --> 01:03:23.760 nothing i big nothing no i i i thought well i mean i i love murray gold from the moment the 01:03:23.780 --> 01:03:27.280 who came back and I thought he got better and better. 01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:31.220 And so, you know, with the kind of change in texture 01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:32.540 that he got through the Moffat era, 01:03:32.900 --> 01:03:34.020 I mean, I don't know if it was better and better 01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:37.540 or just because, you know, we'd had three or four discs 01:03:37.820 --> 01:03:39.060 of his soundtracks by then 01:03:39.100 --> 01:03:40.900 and this was a kind of different sound 01:03:41.080 --> 01:03:42.580 because he was being asked for something different. 01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:47.040 And so far, since he's come back to the show, 01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:49.600 there hasn't been anything that has really caught my ear. 01:03:50.260 --> 01:03:53.740 Now, this episode really did catch my ear 01:03:53.760 --> 01:04:02.340 repeatedly a lot of the time because it sounds like he has been watching 1970s james bond i mean 01:04:02.560 --> 01:04:07.920 oh wait wait wait wait you're right you're right you are right there was something james bond in 01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:13.180 this and i now that you mention it i absolutely there was a point where i thought it was barn 01:04:13.300 --> 01:04:19.060 film music for a second it wasn't i mean it was the but the bomb film in the in the final scene 01:04:19.080 --> 01:04:24.300 that felt very bombed but in a lot of the others it was more the kind of 70s disco 01:04:25.260 --> 01:04:31.400 kind of not kind of full-on but in the in the way that you know maybe that Marvin Hamish used it in 01:04:31.540 --> 01:04:39.760 Spy Who Loved Me yeah this is this is a soundtrack that made me think I am I'm ready to go out and I 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:45.160 mean I'm sure it's not available yet but I'm ready to go out and buy this year's Doctor Who soundtrack 01:04:45.180 --> 01:04:51.560 come on silver screen because I want to listen to this music now I also thought what the hell is he 01:04:51.700 --> 01:04:58.960 doing because I have said before I don't want to notice the music during an episode because 01:04:59.740 --> 01:05:05.720 it should be it should be with the grain of the episode it should all feel part of a piece not 01:05:06.220 --> 01:05:11.080 standing out from the episode because it's running against it which I felt like it was 01:05:11.620 --> 01:05:18.860 in this episode but you know i don't i don't mind because i'm i'm happy to have some i'm happy to 01:05:18.860 --> 01:05:24.220 have gold doing something that's a bit different a bit new a bit interesting and which i'm looking 01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:30.460 forward to listening to on its own yeah i don't know i i i definitely do not agree i think if i 01:05:30.520 --> 01:05:35.040 think a score should be heard and we're never going to agree on that yeah and it should be 01:05:35.060 --> 01:05:44.980 augmenting the story not hiding behind it i'm i'm not i'm not in the in the subtle uh there are 01:05:45.130 --> 01:05:49.180 certain types of movies yeah we've had this argument before i'm not i'm not trying to dredge 01:05:49.180 --> 01:05:55.460 that up again but i'm just i'm just saying from my perspective it didn't fit it it was the fact 01:05:55.460 --> 01:05:59.920 that it was that it was yeah it was sticking out it was sticking out i was listening to music going 01:05:59.940 --> 01:06:07.860 weird stuff's happening. Yeah, it wasn't the right music for the time. And it did remind me of Bond, 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:16.040 some Bond music. But it's like nothing Bondian was happening in this film. So why are you 01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:23.960 channeling that? That's true. That's true. Oh, yeah, I should say he got what did join the 01:06:24.460 --> 01:06:30.880 the league of legendary british actors because it's it's well known in the united states it's 01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:37.400 well known that what separates the british actors from uh american actors is a the fact that they're 01:06:37.880 --> 01:06:44.600 actually trained uh and b that man can they spit when they talk and he he hurled a big one when he 01:06:44.600 --> 01:06:51.220 was uh because they're stage actors it's part of it's part of the um probably rather training 01:06:51.240 --> 01:06:58.420 how to how to spew on camera uh on stage so it can be seen anyway uh and if you didn't catch 01:06:58.560 --> 01:07:04.040 that folks it's it's during his laugh and cry scene it was really well lit that's all i gotta 01:07:04.160 --> 01:07:11.080 say all right well in that case the next episode episode six of season 2024 of doctor who is 01:07:11.740 --> 01:07:18.560 rogue and not rouge as i mistakenly uh wrote down earlier although i don't know 01:07:18.900 --> 01:07:26.600 rouge might fit too and also also not written by russell t davis hey well i hope that's a yay 01:07:26.780 --> 01:07:33.740 let's hope let's go yay that we will uh it was a new writer completely right new writer for 01:07:33.940 --> 01:07:39.740 two new writers neither of whom i'm familiar with so yeah okay gonna be interesting great 01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:46.460 um we'll see what they took from the character brief of the doctor and ruby and put on screen 01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:48.200 because that's usually where you see 01:07:48.820 --> 01:07:50.800 that's usually where you see the weird bits 01:07:50.870 --> 01:07:52.800 is where they've got like the written paperwork 01:07:53.180 --> 01:07:54.160 and they hand it to the writers 01:07:54.310 --> 01:07:56.580 they say this is what we're going for 01:07:56.710 --> 01:07:58.080 without them seeing all the other scripts 01:07:58.580 --> 01:08:02.380 and then they latch on to what they think works 01:08:03.180 --> 01:08:04.580 and they go 01:08:04.810 --> 01:08:09.560 so sometimes you get really wildly out of place characterizations 01:08:10.520 --> 01:08:12.600 and sometimes really generic ones 01:08:13.140 --> 01:08:15.160 so it'll be interesting to see 01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:17.279 what happens there. 01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:18.700 All right, Simon, 01:08:19.240 --> 01:08:19.940 thank you for joining me. 01:08:20.440 --> 01:08:21.480 It's a pleasure, as always. 01:08:22.259 --> 01:08:22.560 And listeners, 01:08:23.319 --> 01:08:23.980 I hope you'll join us 01:08:23.980 --> 01:08:24.819 all again next time 01:08:25.480 --> 01:08:26.160 on Fusion Patrol. 01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:29.460 You've been listening 01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:30.839 to Fusion Patrol. 01:08:31.440 --> 01:08:32.120 Thanks for listening. 01:08:34.359 --> 01:08:35.460 If you've enjoyed this episode, 01:08:35.720 --> 01:08:36.580 we hope you'll consider 01:08:36.900 --> 01:08:37.540 supporting us at 01:08:37.880 --> 01:08:38.960 buymeacoffee.com 01:08:39.060 --> 01:08:39.759 slash Fusion Patrol 01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:41.620 or patreon.com 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:42.640 slash Fusion Patrol. 01:08:43.460 --> 01:08:44.360 For our monthly 01:08:44.380 --> 01:08:49.000 Patreon subscribers, we're currently running a special series on Babylon 5. 01:08:51.089 --> 01:08:58.020 Come join the conversation and find other content at FusionPatrol.com. And we're back on social media, 01:08:58.290 --> 01:09:04.520 where you can also follow us on Mastodon and the Fediverse. Our address is at podcast at 01:09:04.700 --> 01:09:11.180 FusionPatrol.com. Our music is Fight the Future by Amber Wolf. 01:09:13.839 --> 01:09:16.200 This has been a Lone Locust production.