WEBVTT 00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:11.280 you're listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:18.440 each week we take a single episode of a science fiction tv series movie or 00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:24.980 audio and overanalyze it to within an inch of its life welcome to the discussion 00:00:31.660 --> 00:00:33.540 Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:34.240 I'm Eugene. 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:35.660 And I'm Simon. 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:42.900 And tonight we are looking at Season 2024 of Doctor Who, Episode 4, 73 Yards by Russell Dede. 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:44.660 Episode Synopsis 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:51.540 The Doctor and Ruby arrive on the coast of Wales and, like last week, the Doctor has soon put his foot in it. 00:00:52.040 --> 00:00:54.180 This time, stepping on a fairy circle. 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.860 Ruby reads a scroll, reading, Rest in Peace, Mad Jack. 00:00:58.660 --> 00:01:04.120 After inspecting the circle, Ruby looks up and sees an old woman standing some distance away, signaling to her. 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:06.860 When she turns back, the doctor is gone. 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.880 The TARDIS is locked, and her key no longer works. 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:13.260 She tries approaching the mysterious woman, but she keeps her distance. 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:15.600 Ruby heads towards the nearby village. 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:21.020 The old woman continues to follow at a distance, never getting nearer or further away. 00:01:21.620 --> 00:01:24.720 On the way, she encounters a hiker and asks her a favor. 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:26.620 Would you talk to the woman? 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.540 She agrees, but when she does, she runs away, screaming. 00:01:31.240 --> 00:01:38.220 In the village pub, the locals are assholes to her because they're Welsh or because she's English or both. 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:44.540 She rents a room for the night, constantly aware that the woman remains outside, standing, watching, signaling. 00:01:44.860 --> 00:01:49.800 One of the patrons, Josh, goes out to talk to her, and he runs away, screaming. 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:55.660 Ruby explains what happened with the fairy circle, and they explain the significance of the scroll she read. 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:59.020 The fairy circle bound the insane dead to the earth. 00:01:59.460 --> 00:02:02.120 Now she has released him, and the woman is his herald. 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:07.180 This comes to a head when Mad Jack comes to the door, scaring the poo out of Ruby. 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:11.980 Except it's just the pasty man, and they were being assholes to her again. 00:02:12.660 --> 00:02:17.120 The next day, the woman is still there, and there is still no sign of the doctor. 00:02:17.720 --> 00:02:23.060 Ruby is told that Josh has vowed never to return to the pub as long as she's there. 00:02:23.700 --> 00:02:25.040 So Ruby is kicked out. 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:27.200 Ruby returns to London via train. 00:02:27.820 --> 00:02:32.260 Impossibly, the woman is always outside, the same distance away. 00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:39.260 Returning to her home, her mom decides to talk with the woman and runs off screaming, avoiding Ruby at all costs. 00:02:39.880 --> 00:02:42.860 She even changes the locks and kicks Ruby out of her life. 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:46.560 A year passes and Kate Lethbridge-Stewart of Unit approaches Ruby. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:49.580 Unit can help Ruby with the situation. 00:02:50.100 --> 00:02:51.560 The mysterious woman is unusual. 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:54.700 She is exactly 73 yards away from Ruby, 00:02:54.980 --> 00:02:57.560 and high-powered cameras cannot get a better picture of her 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.940 than if you were seeing her from 73 yards away. 00:03:01.660 --> 00:03:04.440 The unit troops have special training for these sorts of things, 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.980 and Lethbridge Stewart sends him in to apprehend the woman. 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:11.380 They approach the woman, and while they don't run off in terror, 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:14.120 they do all turn and give Ruby the side eye. 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:20.800 They report something back to Stuart, and she withdraws her troops and abandons Ruby with a look of disgust on her face. 00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:28.220 Years passed. Ruby's life continues. She has a progression of romantic partners, but she can never fully commit to them. 00:03:28.540 --> 00:03:32.140 The woman is always there, 73 yards away. 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:38.660 When Ruby turns 40, a new Welsh politician, Roger Apwil, comes on the political scene. 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:48.940 Ruby remembers the doctor telling her about how bad he was, and when she hears him refer to himself as Mad Jack, she decides it's up to her to save the world from him. 00:03:49.480 --> 00:03:53.280 Commits her life to his political campaign as a volunteer and a donor. 00:03:53.860 --> 00:04:00.900 He works his way up to Prime Minister, and rumor has it he's buying Pakistan's nuclear arsenal so he can use it. 00:04:01.480 --> 00:04:02.760 on the eve of his announcement 00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:05.240 Ruby stands 73 yards away from him 00:04:05.510 --> 00:04:07.260 and he flees in terror 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:08.840 residing as Prime Minister 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:10.180 less than an hour later 00:04:10.810 --> 00:04:12.600 with the only reason given for his resignation 00:04:13.060 --> 00:04:14.580 as ask her 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.040 Ruby has perhaps saved the world 00:04:17.090 --> 00:04:18.859 but this does not get rid of the woman 00:04:19.579 --> 00:04:20.780 Ruby continues to age 00:04:21.109 --> 00:04:22.860 and it has been 65 years 00:04:23.080 --> 00:04:24.520 since the woman started shadowing her 00:04:24.880 --> 00:04:26.820 Ruby is dying in hospital 00:04:27.220 --> 00:04:29.160 and finally the woman comes closer 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:30.900 she's in the room with Ruby 00:04:30.960 --> 00:04:36.580 at the foot of the bed and then ruby is the woman who sees herself and the doctor as the 00:04:36.700 --> 00:04:40.580 tardis when she was young then ruby stops the doctor from stepping in the fairy circle 00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:45.280 and we reach the end of the story and nothing has actually happened apparently the end now 00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:52.540 i have a quick question for you it's uh independent of this uh sort of you i'm tipping the viewers 00:04:52.630 --> 00:04:57.120 off they might be able to track you down now sorry you live in a small village in wales is this 00:04:57.140 --> 00:05:03.940 correct it's correct and you are english correct it's correct and your cousins have been visiting 00:05:04.140 --> 00:05:12.000 you and they also are english yes did you take them to a pub in your little village oh well now 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:17.200 i'm afraid that the experiment you're hoping for hasn't taken place no i didn't you haven't taken 00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:23.500 them to a pub would they be assholes to them because they're english because this is a great 00:05:23.780 --> 00:05:30.140 This episode is a fantastic travel brochure for not going to Wales. 00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:42.640 The Welsh are not portrayed well in this episode at all, which I thought RTD was a little more sympathetic to the Welsh, but not in this one. 00:05:43.860 --> 00:05:45.700 There is a thing. 00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:49.540 I mean, I've got quite a lot to say about the pub scene. 00:05:50.280 --> 00:06:04.560 There is a thing which is a very kind of, it's like a story the English tell each other about you go into a pub in Wales and everyone is speaking English. 00:06:05.460 --> 00:06:09.640 And then as soon as you go in, everyone switches to speaking Welsh. 00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:15.060 How they know that people are speaking English before they go in, I don't know. 00:06:15.130 --> 00:06:19.320 But it's a really kind of, it's a very popular myth. 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:24.080 It's never been my experience that there is anything like that. 00:06:24.130 --> 00:06:26.900 But I mean, that's not to say there aren't unfriendly pubs. 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:29.960 Yeah, I have come across unfriendly pubs. 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:31.660 It is a different kind of unfriendliness. 00:06:32.030 --> 00:06:36.680 And to be fair, the unfriendliness in this pub, I'm not sure, 00:06:37.300 --> 00:06:39.720 is as much to do with the fact that Ruby is English 00:06:39.910 --> 00:06:42.140 as to do with the fact that Ruby is not local. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.080 Oh, it's a local pub for local people. 00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:46.940 That's the, okay. 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:49.360 That's a theme we get in British shows too. 00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:58.300 Um, okay, well, let me ask, switching that aside, then, this experiment hasn't been conducted, but if you get a chance, take them down, see if they get, you know, get abused. 00:06:58.780 --> 00:07:01.760 Um, but, uh, what'd you think of the episode? 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:16.980 Well, all right. Top, top level, top level take on this episode is, first off, if this, if this was it, this is, this is RTD, this is RTD doing what RTD does well. 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:26.220 And in some ways, he's telling a story here that doesn't need to be Doctor Who. 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:27.200 Yep. 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:33.620 I mean, in fact, it's a number of other things that he's sort of plundering, 00:07:33.980 --> 00:07:38.140 including his own, because I think Years and Years is a huge influence on this. 00:07:38.320 --> 00:07:43.260 But I'm going to stick my neck out and say there's bits of 2001 in there, 00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:47.080 as well as the very kind of obvious American werewolf in London. 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:55.100 aspect to it but i also the fact that it's like it's doing something that isn't a traditional 00:07:55.340 --> 00:08:04.580 doctor who story is a plus as far as i'm concerned because i don't i i don't want rtd 00:08:05.580 --> 00:08:10.960 reheated you know this this is this is the whole thing about him coming back as showrunner 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:20.600 I don't want the same kinds of stories that we got in 2005 because the show's moved on from then 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.120 and every time we get a new showrunner we have someone who tells stories in different ways 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:31.840 and so I kind of think and obviously one of the things about RTD is that he left the show in 2010 00:08:31.860 --> 00:08:41.500 so 13 years is a not inconsiderable amount of time and he he has to have developed and i you know i've 00:08:41.539 --> 00:08:47.760 seen some of the stuff that he's done written since then and so coming back i want to see different 00:08:48.760 --> 00:08:55.360 stuff from him and this the the kind of things this is the things about rtd playing through 00:08:55.460 --> 00:09:02.720 strengths here this this is the kind of the spookiness the horror the kind of deeply 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:13.860 unsettling-ness of it all of that is incredibly powerful and even though there are nits that I 00:09:13.860 --> 00:09:20.520 could pick and indeed will pick I I'll kind of forgive all of that if we you know if we get more 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:27.920 more of this is i mean not exactly like this but more of telling the kind of the kind of stories 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:34.420 that we haven't necessarily seen before not exactly i mean obviously there are echoes i guess 00:09:34.420 --> 00:09:43.260 of turn left in this but if we hadn't had space babies and the devil's cord we'd just gone boom 00:09:43.420 --> 00:09:50.260 and 73 yards i would have such a different attitude towards this season it's well it's 00:09:50.260 --> 00:10:00.240 night and day okay so i mean this and i obviously i'm i'm mixing creative geniuses here this is bore 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:09.420 and also mixing my all right never mind beasts this should be a show like beasts this should 00:10:09.300 --> 00:10:15.440 have been an anthology where he writes eight he writes eight different stories that don't have to 00:10:15.560 --> 00:10:20.900 be doctor who you you said it yourself this would have been a fine story could have ended with ruby 00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:27.660 being taken over by old ruby and being cursed and damned forever to repeat this loop and because 00:10:27.880 --> 00:10:34.560 that's what ghost stories do they don't have happy endings and and then fine you know go on to a 00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:39.260 completely different story but the fact that you want to put this in doctor who you have to reset 00:10:39.280 --> 00:10:44.940 at the end and you say you can kind of do that and turn left but you can only go to that well 00:10:44.950 --> 00:10:52.780 so many times and in this particular case i don't think it's very successful i think you can go to 00:10:52.840 --> 00:11:01.720 that well after 14 years i'm i'm allowing that ah well then you have to go better than this it has 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:08.160 to it has to mean something turn left meant something in the end turn left made a huge 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:14.400 difference this didn't make a difference it didn't save the world from roger williams because that 00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:22.480 hasn't happened yet it didn't well except it did because that that was the original timeline and it 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:29.040 will happen again now presumably because of the reset so yeah is it the original timeline i don't 00:11:29.040 --> 00:11:34.240 know kate lethbridge stewart said something to the effect of perhaps this is this timeline is focused 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:40.040 on that particular event or something so i mean there's there is even an implication from kate 00:11:40.220 --> 00:11:45.980 that this is a an alternate timeline but i'll tell you what um i'll give you my family's reaction 00:11:46.140 --> 00:11:53.540 here just briefly uh my wife uh my son wouldn't watch it because eh branchy again so he's he is 00:11:53.700 --> 00:11:59.760 he has definitely poisoned the well something fierce and however he did come out for the last 00:11:59.780 --> 00:12:05.460 15 minutes just coincidentally he sat down and watched it and after we watched it i was kind of 00:12:05.540 --> 00:12:10.780 like this is going to be the first one this year that i'm going to have to re-watch um because 00:12:11.400 --> 00:12:18.160 now knowing what the ending is i have to go back and understand if if it made sense spoiler no but 00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:23.840 um it so i said i'm gonna have to re-watch that one and do you want to watch it through 00:12:23.860 --> 00:12:33.200 nah I'm good and then oh so ending did not grab him even though but I echo my I echo my wife's 00:12:33.640 --> 00:12:39.360 sentiments which were it didn't really amount to anything but it was entertaining along the way 00:12:40.020 --> 00:12:44.120 but that's that's the best you can say for it it was it was a string of scenes that were 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:49.020 entertaining and when you get to the end of no consequence I mean the thought and I know it's a 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:55.880 slightly it's an overused trite and it's almost in a way a misquote but i mean literally the the 00:12:56.120 --> 00:13:01.140 pop in my mind was this is a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:09.900 she didn't do anything like it was it was in the end it was pointless and i it really bugged me so 00:13:09.900 --> 00:13:15.260 i did i did actually re-watch this one this is the first one this year i have been able to go i am 00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:20.860 gonna have to watch it again i just finished it a few minutes ago and like uh okay uh didn't really 00:13:21.040 --> 00:13:26.900 change didn't really change my opinion much although i did pick up a few things like it is 00:13:27.140 --> 00:13:34.400 obviously clear in the rewatch that when the people talk to the crazy old lady they look at 00:13:34.640 --> 00:13:40.800 ruby in horror and run away yes yeah in in the first one it wasn't always clear that that was 00:13:40.760 --> 00:13:47.220 true although i think josh doesn't really do that but but everyone else does they all turn to look 00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:54.480 at ruby before she should run off so uh you know i i assume that when they're there and they're 00:13:54.600 --> 00:14:00.980 talking to that woman the woman says ruby has a toe infection oh my god and they run away from her 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:07.760 um yeah no i i got that the first time i mean i i i there are things there were reasons why i 00:14:07.780 --> 00:14:15.740 wanted to watch it again and i haven't yet had a had a chance to watch it again um but it wasn't 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:22.460 that and also wasn't knowing whether it makes sense knowing what the ending is because to me 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:32.460 that didn't really matter it was i kind of i kind of i do agree with your wife it in the in the sense 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:38.660 that it's entertaining to watch that you know that far I will go along with it but I I think 00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:44.280 that it for some reason I don't know why because there are there are certain stories I guess it's 00:14:44.280 --> 00:14:51.140 the style of story or whatever and I I am very taken with your comparison with beasts because 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:59.880 Nigel Neill I just I'm I'm astonished that I didn't think of it but the echoes are kind of 00:14:59.880 --> 00:15:05.600 quite powerful i'm i'm thinking that they must have been deliberate actually in some way some of 00:15:05.620 --> 00:15:13.140 the some of the like the way he's using the coast of wales echoing the the way that neil uses 00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:20.920 uh the isle of man um you know for example in year of the sex olympics and like you say it's it's a 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:31.840 it's a kind of a short story in the way that beasts are short stories that happens to focus on 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:38.480 one of the protagonists of the show we are watching i don't necessarily have a problem 00:15:38.660 --> 00:15:47.580 with that at all i have a basic thesis that doctor who has a show is an anthology show 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:56.820 and it should be an anthology show it's almost unique in being a a storytelling format or at 00:15:56.820 --> 00:16:07.060 least a storytelling um premise i guess which allows you to tell any kind of story initially 00:16:07.160 --> 00:16:12.540 it was we yeah we you can have a historical story you can have a story set on another planet 00:16:13.160 --> 00:16:19.540 but anyway within that you can you can have a planet that represents whatever it is you want 00:16:19.540 --> 00:16:25.880 it to represent you can bend reality you can as rtd is doing in here you can bring in kind of 00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:35.260 fantastical and mythical kind of elements but you could also just set it within any real period of 00:16:35.520 --> 00:16:42.520 history you could tell a kitchen sink drama you can do horror you can do a political thriller you 00:16:42.540 --> 00:16:48.480 whatever you want. And there has been a sense that somehow there is a format to a Doctor Who 00:16:49.499 --> 00:16:55.760 story and that emerges periodically over the show. And I think it changes as well what a Doctor Who 00:16:56.140 --> 00:17:04.620 story is meant to be. But I like it when the show shrugs that off and ideally just shrugs off the 00:17:04.699 --> 00:17:10.740 trappings of the season arc or the overall narrative arc just to tell a good story that 00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:17.160 the TARDIS brings us into gives us a couple of familiar characters to hang on to because 00:17:17.959 --> 00:17:25.360 let's face it anthology series are a difficult sell and then we get the story and whether it's 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:31.460 four episodes or six episodes or a standalone like this boom it's over just I just I am still 00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:39.640 in in the camp that says you don't get to tell the story about your main well a main character 00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:47.200 aging to death of natural causes over the natural span of a lifetime and then stab your fingers and 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:53.600 go yeah didn't happen and does not make any consequence to them because ruby's already 00:17:53.920 --> 00:18:03.020 forgotten girls are way too or less i think the girl who waited yeah but it didn't the doctor and 00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:11.640 rory and young uh young amy get something out of this story nobody gets anything out of this story 00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:17.560 in this one the doctor wasn't there he doesn't know anything about it it just i don't like that 00:18:17.620 --> 00:18:21.880 i didn't want to go in there and say it's impossible to tell such a story but at the same time 00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:31.860 they didn't really undo it they killed old amy in that they let her die and she doesn't get a reset 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:37.180 to come back it's young amy just never got to do it everybody else has to live with what they did 00:18:37.760 --> 00:18:45.560 not quite the same and it feels like it feels like this is supposed to be some sort of a penance 00:18:45.760 --> 00:18:51.980 story for ruby this is the you know it's a ghost story this is the curse that's been laid upon you 00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:59.820 because you've transgressed and this is your penance is being haunted by this the apparition 00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:05.740 of your death except that it was the doctor that did the transgression he's not getting the penance 00:19:05.800 --> 00:19:13.280 ruby was secondary does she learn anything from it no so did she successfully complete the curse no 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:23.300 you know all of that just doesn't gel right for me and before i forget the thought it just came to 00:19:23.360 --> 00:19:37.240 I mean, there does, I, okay, one, this is either the most meaningless story they've told in a long time, or this is the most significant chunk of this year's story arc we've seen to date. 00:19:37.590 --> 00:19:49.540 It has to be one of those. And it is possible that this will come back in some other way, in which case I might apologize in the end, but right now it just feels like they threw it away. 00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:54.220 So I've seen a couple of things about this. 00:19:55.020 --> 00:20:00.440 And one is I read Martin Bellum's recap of the episode 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:02.140 where he kind of gives a few thoughts. 00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:06.580 And his basic take on it was this story was great until the end, 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.960 but the ending didn't pay off all the things that were set up in the episode 00:20:11.800 --> 00:20:13.260 because we didn't, you know, for example, 00:20:13.300 --> 00:20:18.080 we didn't really get to see how Ruby became the old woman 00:20:18.280 --> 00:20:19.580 and all that kind of thing. 00:20:19.660 --> 00:20:26.240 didn't even have the same hair as if as if if we were able to understand how that happened would 00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:32.820 explain how she was 73 yards away i mean all of that i for me right that doesn't matter because 00:20:33.320 --> 00:20:40.660 it's just the spookiness of the 73 yards and the fact you can't see it all yeah all of that i kind 00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:47.280 of i don't necessarily even want an explanation of it however the other thing is yes there's a 00:20:47.140 --> 00:20:54.460 stuff in here that has to do with the story arc and it's a big story arc episode i can't imagine 00:20:54.700 --> 00:21:02.880 how but if it matters to you that what happens in this episode has an explanation the explanation 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:11.140 may yet still come well i think will still come i i i mean i have a feeling that it will not be 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:18.820 satisfactory and i'll i'll well that's different i mean i i i i i i also part of me is like i don't 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:23.640 want there to be any more explanation of it because whatever the explanation is first of all i didn't 00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:29.340 need it but secondly whatever it is is not going to be satisfactory because when artymd ties up 00:21:29.370 --> 00:21:35.520 these and arcs they don't they don't do it for me no no it can never work the whole if we ever get 00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:42.380 the doctor's name it will never it will never pay off it cannot possibly ever pay off and there's 00:21:42.520 --> 00:21:49.820 another one i did see a couple quotes from rtd about this episode one of which is he says and 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:59.100 hear my hear my scorn in my voice as i say this he says he will never tell what the woman was saying 00:21:59.220 --> 00:22:05.540 to these people and and because it's much better dramatically that way if i if i never 00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:11.980 tell that and like yeah except that there is you don't know what she was saying you didn't care 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:19.620 it didn't matter it didn't need to make sense there is nothing that that woman could have said 00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:27.080 there is nothing that that woman could have said to ruby's mom to make ruby's mom behave that way 00:22:27.620 --> 00:22:33.380 instantly ruby's mom of all the people that did this ruby's mom had to give her at least the 00:22:33.620 --> 00:22:39.180 slightest this this old lady told me something oh my gosh it's the most horrible thing i've ever 00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:45.980 heard in my life what could it nothing nothing is convincibly like and and even if she told you 00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:53.000 something horrible horrible horrible beyond belief uh ruby over there is actually satan himself 00:22:53.020 --> 00:23:00.100 harbinger of doom destroyer of worlds like yeah and why should i believe you that right there's 00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:07.480 the credibility aspect of it it's like but rdd wasn't interested rdd wasn't amazed rdd doesn't 00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:11.800 care about that all he wants is like oh you know anybody goes up to her they just run off in terror 00:23:12.300 --> 00:23:19.700 that's creepy well it is creepy yes but you can't think about it for 35 seconds and not realize that 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:21.860 It doesn't make any sense. 00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:23.140 Hang on a minute. 00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:26.920 The woman is always 73 yards away. 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.860 You can't think that makes sense. 00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:31.820 No, and I wish it did. 00:23:31.860 --> 00:23:33.140 I mean, I know why. 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:41.040 I do know why RTD does reveal exactly why it is 73 yards subsequently, but it doesn't help. 00:23:42.460 --> 00:23:44.680 I'm going to say it couldn't make any sense. 00:23:45.140 --> 00:24:01.440 If what you're wanting is something, you know, there's some particular form of rhetoric or whatever that the woman uses that is purely a kind of purely kind of rational argument that convinces them that Ruby is a terrible person. 00:24:01.580 --> 00:24:29.600 Of course, you can't imagine what that might be, but I don't expect there to be something like that. I expect it to be kind of essentially supernatural, that there is some power that she is exerting over them. It's almost, I guess, in the terms we're talking about, like casting a spell, but within the world of Doctor Who would usually be something about psychic resonance or whatever. 00:24:30.340 --> 00:24:37.060 but I don't care I really don't care I can I can I can think about it and and and and rationalize 00:24:37.090 --> 00:24:44.240 those kind of possible you know with some psychological effect or some hypnosis or 00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:49.680 whatever that doesn't add anything to it doesn't add anything to it it doesn't really matter what 00:24:49.860 --> 00:24:56.560 the thing was what matters is the effect it has I I have a I have a thing about a whole cause and 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:05.100 effect being two uh two sides of the same coin so i i i mean the argument there is that somebody 00:25:05.740 --> 00:25:15.220 turns a corner and they see water uh a glass of water on a rock and then they kill themselves 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:21.320 it's like that makes no sense there's got to be a reason that may not be a sane reason 00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:27.280 not not saying that but it's just it's like it doesn't it doesn't flow you're telling a story 00:25:27.560 --> 00:25:34.760 and you're telling a story that doesn't that doesn't and i i can't not care it's just not 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:40.460 possible for me not to ask the questions when i see them see something on screen it's like 00:25:41.020 --> 00:25:45.660 it's fine to ask fine to ask the question you're supposed to ask the question but it's whether or 00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:51.300 not you actually need an answer i i don't like the answer being because the writer didn't care 00:25:51.320 --> 00:25:58.100 bother or the writer just thought wasn't important i think it is it isn't important he like you 00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:04.060 because it just doesn't matter it doesn't matter what she says it does matter what she says but 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:09.700 i think i think i think that that's not quite the same as the writer doesn't 00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:17.540 care about it i think it's that the i think it's that the well you use the phrase i don't care 00:26:18.180 --> 00:26:23.420 right you don't care yeah i'm transferring that exactly to the writer he doesn't care 00:26:24.060 --> 00:26:29.800 it he didn't care no i think what i think i think he only cared about the effect and and and that 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:37.420 is you can get away with that sometime but the whole story is based on this this weird 00:26:38.310 --> 00:26:42.840 idea and we get nothing and and you know maybe we will get something later on in which case 00:26:43.360 --> 00:26:49.020 you know it's got to be better than bad wolf that should i say that everything has to be better than 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:56.520 bad wolf but you know i don't know i i do want to uh point something out i can't exactly fit these 00:26:57.260 --> 00:27:02.780 in perfect categories because they aren't perfect categories but because i don't know what space 00:27:02.840 --> 00:27:13.520 Babies was supposed to be. I mean, I don't know. Was it supposed to be bad 1940s pulp sci-fi? 00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:22.040 I don't know. But we've had sort of pulp sci-fi, sort of a musical, sort of a war story, 00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:28.940 sort of a horror story. And then kind of coming back to that whole, I don't know that this is a 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:34.120 real universe that i don't know that the doctor and ruby are actually existing in the real universe 00:27:34.310 --> 00:27:42.540 at this time that maybe this is some sort of they are they are stepping through yes they're stepping 00:27:42.760 --> 00:27:51.280 through fictional arrangements in some in some way i throw that out there i i don't have anything 00:27:52.020 --> 00:27:53.020 concrete on it? 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:54.700 I hope not. 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.780 I mean, again, 00:27:57.780 --> 00:27:59.440 I've said, I think, that 00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:01.480 one of the strengths of Doctor Who is that 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:03.460 it can do any of 00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:04.820 these genres. 00:28:05.330 --> 00:28:07.400 And there remain genres that I 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:09.120 would like to see 00:28:09.800 --> 00:28:11.360 Doctor Who do. 00:28:11.650 --> 00:28:13.300 You know, I really want a good 00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:15.520 film noir episode, for example. 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:16.960 But I 00:28:17.550 --> 00:28:19.060 am not going to defend 00:28:19.520 --> 00:28:27.140 bass babies or the devil's chord which i do think were pretty awful but the tonal shift 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:36.460 are what rtd did when he brought the show back in 2005 i think when he did that in 2005 he was 00:28:36.800 --> 00:28:43.220 doing it partly because he wanted to find out what what worked in the sense of what 00:28:43.660 --> 00:28:46.040 was successful, popular, whatever. 00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:48.440 And yeah, I guess whether, you know, 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:51.680 it kind of gelled as a kind of tone for the show. 00:28:52.300 --> 00:28:54.720 But it was very, very deliberately varied. 00:28:55.620 --> 00:29:00.360 And I think more than with any subsequent showrunner, 00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:05.180 it continued to be quite deliberately varied. 00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:08.480 Like that was how he set up each season. 00:29:08.820 --> 00:29:26.720 So there was an intentional mix of different styles, genres, types of episode with, I guess, a certain kind of formula to the beginning and the season finale. 00:29:27.580 --> 00:29:34.080 so I welcome the fact that without the tone kind of feeling like it's 00:29:35.860 --> 00:29:42.600 looking for its mark, the fact that they are doing different genres, and I hadn't until you 00:29:42.760 --> 00:29:51.000 said it quite appreciated how they are sort of quite easy to recognize genres, but I like that, 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:55.600 I like the fact they're doing different genres, and yet it was a musical without music, 00:29:56.520 --> 00:29:58.000 Ah, more or less. 00:29:58.300 --> 00:30:04.040 It was a horror story that didn't end with the death of the cursed person. 00:30:04.540 --> 00:30:05.440 Or it did, but it didn't. 00:30:05.780 --> 00:30:09.660 You know, it's like they're just off slightly. 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:11.140 I don't know. 00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:18.080 I will say here with regards to your discussion about when RTD came back and set up his sort of thing. 00:30:18.780 --> 00:30:25.760 I have been going through the Fusion Patrol archives and I'll point listeners to episodes 11 through 15. 00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:37.400 of our podcast from like 2010 where you i and ben sat down discussing your thesis on your website 00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:45.860 with regards to the patterns that rtd and uh subsequently um uh stephen moffitt had 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:52.840 sort of adhered to in their moffitt adhered to it for one for one season i think that's about 00:30:52.620 --> 00:30:56.880 when we did it though i think we did it after the end yeah yeah yeah no you're yeah you're 00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:02.880 absolutely right it was the it was the first it was the first matt smith season and uh yeah that 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:10.560 was um yeah so that team's been going on for a long time and and and i mean in theory you could 00:31:10.780 --> 00:31:17.160 say now rtd's back we could do that again but i don't think he's i don't think he's sticking to 00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:26.220 that the the template as i saw it was that you know you have the the the present day companion 00:31:26.520 --> 00:31:31.280 introduction episode you then have a historical episode you or a future episode i forget which 00:31:31.420 --> 00:31:35.020 you're around yeah and then yeah future first and then you then you have a historical episode 00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:43.340 and somewhere in the middle you actually have with rtd an episode that is adapted from some other 00:31:43.780 --> 00:31:50.940 media so a big finish or a novel or whatever and then there's a bit of space in the middle for 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:57.140 trying out some different things but it ends up getting all wrapped up in a two-part season finale 00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:02.820 and then you can see the bones of the structure there i don't think he's sticking to that hard 00:32:03.380 --> 00:32:10.220 at this point i think the the christmas episode that introduced ruby and was was shooty cat was 00:32:10.120 --> 00:32:17.360 first episode was the the kind of the the sort of present day one the space babies one i guess was 00:32:17.580 --> 00:32:27.140 the future the uh devil's cord was historical celebrity sort of the historical yeah it's more 00:32:27.220 --> 00:32:32.320 the kind of thing that you got in the middle of the season but yeah it was the kind of celebrity 00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:39.000 historical it's sort of there but i i'm i think he's i mean partly because he's only got eight 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.660 episodes to play with instead of 13 he's doing something that is different i think yeah i think 00:32:44.760 --> 00:32:51.080 he's i think he's playing with the whole season as a as a block somehow but i um doctor steps in 00:32:51.080 --> 00:32:57.720 the thing again last episode doctor steps on the landmine theme is that is that a theme for the 00:32:57.900 --> 00:33:04.240 season or or a theme that we're getting put forward i can't think of any situation in the 00:33:04.260 --> 00:33:11.340 first two episodes where that is the case but in this case it's quite literally foot in it 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:18.300 not even it's not even metaphorically that way i i think it's probably an accident 00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:24.000 because apart from anything else when he steps on the landmine he doesn't detonate it when he 00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:30.500 steps on the fairy circle whatever it is he does do whatever he does by the way this is the first 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:38.160 episode filmed of the block apparently is it um yeah how interesting so i mean one of the other 00:33:38.260 --> 00:33:43.460 one of the other things this is block two i don't know that's the problem uh but i thought it was 00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:49.140 the first block i mean not counting ruby especially ruby wrote but uh one of one of the interesting 00:33:49.300 --> 00:33:55.060 things about the this episode and which contributed to the fact that i did enjoy it 00:33:55.580 --> 00:33:57.340 is that it doesn't have 00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:58.380 a huge gasp in it. 00:33:58.380 --> 00:33:59.180 The Doctor in it. 00:33:59.600 --> 00:33:59.800 Yeah. 00:34:00.520 --> 00:34:01.320 Didn't want to say it, 00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:02.160 but I was going to. 00:34:02.780 --> 00:34:04.280 You asked about whether it was Doctor Light. 00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:06.280 It was absolutely 100% a Doctor Light. 00:34:07.060 --> 00:34:09.760 And we discussed this 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:10.520 when we talked about Boom. 00:34:10.780 --> 00:34:11.740 I have gone off him. 00:34:12.640 --> 00:34:16.540 And I feel that Millie Gibson 00:34:17.500 --> 00:34:20.340 is much more impressive. 00:34:21.260 --> 00:34:24.399 And this is a good episode for her. 00:34:24.980 --> 00:34:28.280 I'm still not kind of shouting from the rooftop 00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:29.980 she's the best actor I've ever seen. 00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:34.899 But she's got a lot more to her 00:34:35.020 --> 00:34:37.919 and this episode gives her Lenty to do. 00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:40.240 And I feel like she rises to it. 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.780 So, you know, both because Gat was not in it 00:34:45.100 --> 00:34:47.540 and because Gibson does a pretty good job, 00:34:47.980 --> 00:34:51.419 I feel like this is really making the most 00:34:51.530 --> 00:34:53.639 of the cast that they've got. 00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:57.480 Yeah, that's a terrible thing to say, but I can't disagree. 00:34:57.960 --> 00:34:58.320 I know. 00:34:58.760 --> 00:34:58.920 I know. 00:34:58.920 --> 00:34:59.800 I can't disagree with it. 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:04.240 I'm really hoping that Gatua will convince me later in the season. 00:35:04.540 --> 00:35:05.700 But, yeah. 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:06.500 Yeah. 00:35:08.200 --> 00:35:09.360 Speaking of the cast. 00:35:10.020 --> 00:35:18.920 So one of the things that RTD has done in the past that he's very good at, or people say he's good at, and I won't disagree. 00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:24.060 Although I can take some exceptions here and there. 00:35:24.500 --> 00:35:31.240 that he's really good about that whole gosh the companion has a family and they're people i mean 00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:41.180 you know wilf is fantastic uh martha's mother is a believable uh bitch um you know uh i can't 00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:48.040 stand jackie i know a lot of people love her but i i can i believe she exists i mean as a as a human 00:35:48.100 --> 00:35:53.580 being she's just like okay yeah i can totally i can totally see that i've met people like that i 00:35:53.900 --> 00:35:59.800 totally you know and and she does care about rose and they they do work the dynamic well 00:36:00.510 --> 00:36:09.380 okay i initially thought carla was good but i'm way gone off her too i thought she was great in 00:36:09.830 --> 00:36:18.020 this i don't like her right i'm curious i well as an actor no as a character but but so you're 00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:24.640 do you know do you do you find her convincing as a character or or the the performance convincing 00:36:25.420 --> 00:36:28.720 i guess i guess the two questions do you find the writing of the character 00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:35.780 and or the acting of the character convincing okay so i find the character here's what here's 00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:43.400 what's nagging at me we start the church on ruby road and carla is you know gosh what a nice lady 00:36:43.420 --> 00:36:47.500 and she's so happy and she's jovial and like i said the actor is performing the job 00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:56.900 perfectly well and then ruby's taken out of her life and she is a miserable dour person and i 00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:02.220 don't know she comes off kind of miserable when the doctor materializes his start to see in her 00:37:02.420 --> 00:37:08.260 roof later on i forget which episode that is and then here in this episode you know she's not 00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:16.620 exactly great to begin with she's she's definitely not the same upbeat happy person she was in church 00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:22.880 on ruby road when she's talking with ruby about oh man their sheds and you know not that i ever 00:37:22.900 --> 00:37:29.440 had a garden where she had a man or anything you know she just she's kind of a downer and then 00:37:29.900 --> 00:37:38.000 when uh and then when she turns on ruby she's in a nasty downer and i don't know i this is 00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:44.560 such a weird term for this character that i thought was going to be and i'm not going to say 00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:52.460 wolf but you know seemed like she was coming in as a strong supporter of ruby and yet now and i 00:37:52.540 --> 00:37:57.500 know this is an alternate timeline perhaps that's what it is i don't know and i know that that was 00:37:57.520 --> 00:38:03.420 an alternate timeline and that but there is a there's a sort of in the church on ruby road 00:38:03.600 --> 00:38:09.400 there's a sort of she would be a miserable woman if she hadn't had ruby in her life and in this 00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:15.680 one she's miserable now because she has ruby in her life and i don't know it's just it's just 00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:23.620 it's odd and i'm sorry i've got i've got a different take on that but i wonder if it's 00:38:23.640 --> 00:38:35.300 I wonder if my different reading of it is partly because I feel more convinced of that character that you're kind of describing as what your initial read is. 00:38:35.530 --> 00:38:44.920 You know, the idea of Carla as being this wolf-like, you know, absolute cheerleader for Ruby, absolutely supportive. 00:38:45.660 --> 00:38:53.280 If you take that, if you're convinced by that, if you feel like the show has done enough to establish that, 00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:59.100 and I think it's difficult because there hasn't been a lot of screen time for them to do that. 00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:03.780 And so I can absolutely see why you might feel like, well, I haven't really got the handle on her yet. 00:39:04.200 --> 00:39:07.320 And we've had these alternate timelines where these other things are being shown. 00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:23.900 But in terms of this episode, if you feel like that is who she is, it makes the way in which she turns in this episode one of the most kind of chilling and gut wrenchingly awful things to happen to Ruby. 00:39:24.700 --> 00:39:32.420 Because, you know, it's on top of these kind of random unpleasantnesses that have occurred. 00:39:33.240 --> 00:39:38.860 And Carla is the one person, and, you know, the dialogue before it happens reinforces that. 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:42.640 Carla is the one person who she knows will not do this. 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:53.340 And it just, it's terribly effective in demonstrating the power of the 73-yard woman and how immutable it is. 00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:55.000 That's the terrifying thing about it. 00:39:55.160 --> 00:39:57.480 That's the very sort of Nigel Neill thing about it. 00:39:58.100 --> 00:39:58.300 Yeah. 00:39:58.680 --> 00:40:10.500 And, okay, so Josh and the hiker woman and, you know, they turn, they look at Ruby, horror and disgust and run away screaming. 00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:11.420 Okay. 00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:13.500 And they never want to come back and see her again. 00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:14.520 Perfectly fine. 00:40:15.060 --> 00:40:16.940 Harla, really weird. 00:40:17.700 --> 00:40:26.860 But as you say, it could be an effective way of showing the immutability and the amazing power of this woman's ability to turn people against Ruby. 00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:27.700 Okay. 00:40:27.820 --> 00:40:29.740 And that does seem to be what it is, right? 00:40:30.140 --> 00:40:32.720 It seems to be turning people against Ruby. 00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:34.240 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 00:40:34.240 --> 00:40:34.860 Would you agree with that? 00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:36.000 Yes, definitely. 00:40:36.060 --> 00:40:40.340 Why did App William resign from being prime minister? 00:40:41.200 --> 00:40:42.880 Because he's running away from Ruby. 00:40:43.620 --> 00:40:45.640 Okay, but he didn't need to resign as prime minister. 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:50.020 He could have just run away from Ruby and said, get that woman out of here and never bring her near me again. 00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.020 File an injunction like her mom did. 00:40:53.580 --> 00:41:04.440 I mean, he gave up power because he gave up power and his nuclear arsenal and his ability to blow somebody up, which has been his life's ambition, clearly, to nuke somebody. 00:41:05.220 --> 00:41:10.520 But now he's like, oh, I'm giving that up because that woman, I don't like. 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:11.700 She's disgusting. 00:41:12.490 --> 00:41:14.020 And that doesn't make any sense. 00:41:14.620 --> 00:41:34.440 I think it does if you see what happens in those exchanges as being something that is more than just a kind of a rhetorical exchange, a kind of purely ruby-sows-socks-that-smell-in-hell kind of thing. 00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:40.020 and then oh my god yeah exactly that that it that it that it's that is a kind of piece of clever 00:41:40.240 --> 00:41:47.300 linguistics that is turning people against ruby but i i think it i think it's not that i think 00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:53.920 it's something that as i say is kind of operating at a deeper psychological level and going straight 00:41:54.020 --> 00:42:01.900 to those kind of trauma set trauma centers or whatever you know in in someone's psyche the 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:09.260 horror and that's linked to ruby right whatever this woman is doing she is generating the horror 00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:17.760 within these people and they are getting the sense that that is somehow coming from ruby but it 00:42:18.120 --> 00:42:23.280 but that the way in which they turn and they and they literally run away i don't think that comes 00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:30.560 from a just yeah like say ruby socks mill or whatever i think there's something operating at 00:42:30.580 --> 00:42:40.660 a deeper more kind of visceral level there yeah and if that is the case i think it could 00:42:41.340 --> 00:42:45.840 that the the you it could be much more of a life-changing experience right we don't know 00:42:46.540 --> 00:42:52.740 we we know the the depth of feeling with josh we don't know what happens to susan twist we 00:42:53.540 --> 00:43:00.540 we know that it's a big deal in the case of carla but that may be more explicable it's life-changing 00:43:00.560 --> 00:43:05.260 because it's her own daughter who she has turned her back on. 00:43:05.830 --> 00:43:08.000 But if that trauma is independent of that, 00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:16.700 I think that would explain why Apquilliam is kind of so shaken and upset 00:43:17.700 --> 00:43:19.040 by what's happened to him that day, 00:43:19.050 --> 00:43:22.340 that he literally two hours later goes and resigns his position. 00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:26.300 And Lethbridge Stewart isn't even exposed directly to the woman. 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:32.120 No, and that surprised me. That did feel different. 00:43:32.860 --> 00:43:35.360 That feels like it's the words coming over the phone. 00:43:36.060 --> 00:43:43.080 Yeah, it echoes what Ruby was trying to do, or Carla and Ruby were agreeing to do together with the phone. 00:43:43.150 --> 00:43:47.960 It didn't work on the phone, so I didn't understand how it worked with Kate. 00:43:48.470 --> 00:43:55.620 Well, I mean, are you trying to make sense out of stuff that they don't care whether it makes sense? 00:43:55.720 --> 00:43:57.860 I mean, I can, you know, this one I can at least. 00:43:57.980 --> 00:43:58.400 Yes, yes. 00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.140 You get it. 00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:01.660 I think that one makes sense. 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:02.440 Right. 00:44:02.740 --> 00:44:02.840 Okay. 00:44:03.460 --> 00:44:04.560 I think that's what it is. 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:08.640 But I mean, it doesn't it doesn't have to. 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:10.560 That's the problem. 00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:11.420 It doesn't have to. 00:44:12.340 --> 00:44:13.240 Well, no, it doesn't have to. 00:44:13.340 --> 00:44:17.720 And I but it but it that I think that would be a completely legitimate choice. 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.660 But I don't see the point in not being clear about it. 00:44:21.260 --> 00:44:24.740 I guess I would have liked if that is the case, I would have liked it to have been a little bit clearer. 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.740 There is in the whole Ruby Kay. 00:44:29.430 --> 00:44:30.940 Ruby apparently has a life. 00:44:31.420 --> 00:44:36.740 I mean, she lives, she has boyfriends, she has, but they never last. 00:44:37.290 --> 00:44:37.940 I mean, okay. 00:44:38.620 --> 00:44:43.660 It doesn't seem like this woman is stopping her from having these relationships. 00:44:44.040 --> 00:44:48.260 And in fact, you know, the boyfriends aren't run off by the terrifying woman. 00:44:48.940 --> 00:44:52.300 They're just run off through ennui or whatever. 00:44:53.940 --> 00:45:04.220 but so that's all kind of i i guess okay um roger ap williams so uh ruby throws herself in with 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:09.420 ap williams because she's going to save the world good for her there is that subplot with marty 00:45:10.120 --> 00:45:15.520 i mean i don't know how i feel about that is that was it really there for a reason or was it just 00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:23.460 shorthand for ap williams really is a nasty guy did did we i i i don't know i was expecting 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:26.660 I was expecting to find out more about her. 00:45:27.140 --> 00:45:27.720 Is she? 00:45:28.240 --> 00:45:29.840 Oh, she's the master's wife. 00:45:30.540 --> 00:45:32.220 That's exactly what I was going to say. 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:34.600 I don't know that she is the master's wife, 00:45:34.790 --> 00:45:36.520 but that is what it reminded me of. 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:40.720 And the reason I think we don't know that 00:45:40.730 --> 00:45:44.600 is because it's possible we will still get an explanation for this. 00:45:44.670 --> 00:45:49.260 We don't know exactly how the arc is going to tie back 00:45:49.410 --> 00:45:50.720 into the events of this story, 00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:53.100 whether Apgrilliam is going to appear again, 00:45:53.200 --> 00:45:54.700 whether she is going to appear again. 00:45:55.080 --> 00:45:56.760 She will be the master's wife. 00:45:57.260 --> 00:46:03.780 I did think, because I found the whole master's wife thing 00:46:05.479 --> 00:46:06.680 absolutely fascinating. 00:46:07.230 --> 00:46:12.240 I didn't, generally speaking, like Last of the Time Lords 00:46:12.270 --> 00:46:16.620 and The Sound of Drums, but that whole relationship 00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:22.440 and the choice to present this abusive relationship 00:46:22.460 --> 00:46:27.300 as part of an episode of a children's programme in the first place, 00:46:28.040 --> 00:46:32.960 and then the choice to really kind of not address it and just have it there. 00:46:33.620 --> 00:46:37.100 That was some of the most intriguing. 00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:42.460 And, you know, the way it was put, 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:47.420 the performances and everything were really kind of subtle and interesting, 00:46:47.580 --> 00:46:50.120 but it just, it wasn't explored. 00:46:50.160 --> 00:46:53.600 and it was kind of, it was, I was just left kind of thinking, 00:46:54.500 --> 00:46:56.200 what is the point of this? 00:46:56.520 --> 00:46:59.920 This is a, sir, are we talking about Last of the Time Lords now 00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:00.940 or are we talking about this one? 00:47:01.020 --> 00:47:03.200 Because everything you're saying applies equally to both. 00:47:03.820 --> 00:47:05.220 I'm talking about Last of the Time Lords. 00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:06.140 Okay. 00:47:06.820 --> 00:47:10.480 And I agree in the sense that if it is the same, 00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:13.240 then yes, it could apply here. 00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:14.760 It could apply here. 00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:34.140 I think that maybe slightly the difference is that in this one, it's one of a number of things that are kind of dangled and left open and are much more about the kind of sense of horror that is being created through the episode. 00:47:34.940 --> 00:47:37.880 But I still feel like, why was this there? 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:39.080 I'm not sure. 00:47:39.580 --> 00:47:43.960 So what was it that made App Williams go after Marty and not Ruby? 00:47:44.140 --> 00:47:49.520 is it is it those glasses she was wearing is though is that her hey ruby's 40 let's put her 00:47:49.520 --> 00:47:57.640 in some really bad glasses is that what did it i i don't know about the glasses i mean i i i prefer 00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:05.180 the glasses to the kind of bad aging makeups that they use you know changing oh changing her hair 00:48:05.180 --> 00:48:11.560 and changing the glasses a bit when she is an old lady though fantastic job of makeup they even fixed 00:48:11.580 --> 00:48:18.420 her eyebrows so it doesn't have that huge gap in it on her over over the one eye that was amazing 00:48:18.720 --> 00:48:25.580 i i don't like recasting either so i'm not gonna i'm not gonna choose what is worse 00:48:26.380 --> 00:48:32.420 let's see i have a weird note here and i'm just gonna throw it out here uh this episode reminds 00:48:32.640 --> 00:48:38.580 me of very much of and i'm pretty sure you've never seen this one it's an episode of the wild 00:48:38.600 --> 00:48:44.960 Wild West called The Night of the Man-Eating House, which without giving you spoilery, 00:48:45.010 --> 00:48:48.600 but just kind of context, The Wild Wild West is typically steampunk. 00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:55.460 It has that ability to do fantastically weird science fiction stuff because, oh, what if 00:48:55.460 --> 00:48:57.320 they invented television in 1880? 00:48:57.880 --> 00:48:59.020 He's like, oh, that's fantastic. 00:48:59.150 --> 00:49:01.260 Or what if somebody made a steam-powered robot? 00:49:02.060 --> 00:49:02.240 Whatever. 00:49:02.430 --> 00:49:05.040 But so it's not supernatural. 00:49:05.100 --> 00:49:10.300 And then there is this episode, The Night of the Man-Eating House, which is a ghost story. 00:49:11.500 --> 00:49:15.960 And at the end of it, and it's effective for the Wild Wild West. 00:49:16.080 --> 00:49:17.660 It's an effective ghost story. 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:18.280 It's creepy. 00:49:18.560 --> 00:49:19.280 It's atmospheric. 00:49:19.640 --> 00:49:22.200 It's got, like, what the heck's going on here? 00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:23.480 The whole nine yards. 00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:25.360 And they get to the end of it, and it has a reset. 00:49:26.380 --> 00:49:29.840 But it has a reset that basically takes you back. 00:49:30.080 --> 00:49:33.160 And they leave the episode like they do this one. 00:49:33.560 --> 00:49:36.420 Did the protagonist learn anything from it? 00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:37.440 I don't know. 00:49:38.040 --> 00:49:40.660 And I've always disliked the ending of that episode. 00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:48.120 In a way, I liked it because when they got to the end of it and they undo it, I can go, oh, thank goodness. 00:49:48.260 --> 00:49:55.260 There isn't ghosts and supernatural elements in my tangentially science fiction steampunk show. 00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:56.460 Right? 00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:03.400 But which we are not getting away with in Doctor Who, which is bugging the heck out of me because I want those things. 00:50:03.580 --> 00:50:10.260 undone or explained off because there is no such thing as supernatural only natural things that 00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:18.340 have yet to be quantified in a naturalistic uh right but anyway i that was what came to my mind 00:50:18.340 --> 00:50:22.760 when i was watching that's like in doctor who that is always just sufficiently advanced technology 00:50:23.500 --> 00:50:30.740 usually yeah but so far no that is not what the toy maker is right i mean the toy maker is indeed 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:37.940 some sort of thingy yeah right now i get yeah and it's toy toy maker and the black and white 00:50:38.300 --> 00:50:47.820 guardians yeah i would say they're different um so the 73 yards the rtd has said he he prior to 00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:52.020 the episode he talked about i had to go out to swansea pier and work it out exactly and you 00:50:52.030 --> 00:50:59.600 think oh there's some logic behind this the actual logic air quotes behind it is that he stood on the 00:50:59.520 --> 00:51:07.300 here looking at people counting the railings uh till he found a distance where people couldn't 00:51:07.300 --> 00:51:14.880 be identified by by his eyesight and that was 73 yards i hope he had his prescription updated 00:51:15.120 --> 00:51:20.700 beforehand just to make sure that he was an average person's 2020 yeah kind of thing exactly 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:26.320 because it's bugging the hell out of me it's not metric it's really bugging the hell out of me it's 00:51:26.260 --> 00:51:34.120 not metric that yeah i wonder why it's not metric actually in a way it's not particularly surprising 00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:40.420 that it's not metric because you know it's pretty sure why would it be well he did say that the 00:51:40.600 --> 00:51:46.480 railings were three and a half feet each so which is more than a meter which is more than a meter 00:51:47.120 --> 00:51:54.400 so he used that to count so maybe he just didn't subsequently go oh well that's 73 yards and then 00:51:54.340 --> 00:52:04.440 just go okay that's uh 67 meters okay we're cool sorry no but i but i mean a yard would be 00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:11.140 a yard is less than a meter three and a half feet is more than a meter yes so i i have no idea what's 00:52:11.240 --> 00:52:15.460 going on there well i mean even if he worked it out in meters and said it's seven or in yards it's 00:52:15.600 --> 00:52:21.180 73 yards i don't understand why he didn't just just convert it and round it to the nearest one 00:52:21.200 --> 00:52:22.560 because it's not that scientific. 00:52:23.240 --> 00:52:25.260 I think the question would be, 00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:26.280 what would Ruby use? 00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:27.160 Because she's 18. 00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:29.600 And I would have thought she would use meters. 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:34.760 Whereas someone my age would probably use yards. 00:52:35.560 --> 00:52:36.240 And so... 00:52:36.580 --> 00:52:39.360 But who would use 73 and not 70 or 75? 00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:41.200 I don't think... 00:52:41.260 --> 00:52:45.040 Well, the point about it has to be a precise sounding number 00:52:45.200 --> 00:52:49.900 because it emphasizes the fact that Ruby has carefully measured it. 00:52:50.500 --> 00:52:52.740 But I don't think the units matter as much. 00:52:52.880 --> 00:53:00.080 I'm just from a kind of, can we blame Disney for anything else perspective, thinking to myself, 00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:08.500 do they care about people like me, the old viewers, who might have done this in yards? 00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:09.540 No. 00:53:10.240 --> 00:53:14.500 Do they care about people in America who are watching it on Disney Plus? 00:53:15.120 --> 00:53:15.400 Yes. 00:53:15.980 --> 00:53:19.160 So that's my attempt at blaming Disney for that one. 00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:23.240 You know something? I'm going to go with it and I'm going to run with it on social media. 00:53:24.380 --> 00:53:30.220 I mean, unfortunately, social media for me is Mastodon, which means running with it means four people might see it. 00:53:30.600 --> 00:53:32.140 But I'm going to run with it anyway. 00:53:32.700 --> 00:53:33.900 I think this is a big... 00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:36.860 I think you should write a letter to Bob Iger in Greening. 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:43.060 I think this is a big Disney middle finger to the British people out there and say, 00:53:43.460 --> 00:53:45.040 We use yards in America, damn it! 00:53:46.540 --> 00:53:47.820 Except it's not for the British people. 00:53:48.020 --> 00:53:50.780 We've got this strange mixture here, and it is. 00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:54.140 Okay, well, you've got the Brexit people in favor of yards. 00:53:54.520 --> 00:53:59.440 Like, young people in the U.S., I'm assuming, will use yards. 00:53:59.980 --> 00:54:00.440 Is that right? 00:54:00.540 --> 00:54:00.700 Yeah. 00:54:01.240 --> 00:54:02.060 Yeah, you do, don't you? 00:54:02.780 --> 00:54:02.840 Yeah. 00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.260 Which is kind of weird. 00:54:05.300 --> 00:54:10.800 I mean, in school, if you're in science class, it's all metric. 00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:13.880 But, you know, if you go down to the... 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:14.260 Oh, yeah. 00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:18.380 If you go down to the, well, because it's science, you actually need it to be precise. 00:54:19.180 --> 00:54:23.080 If you go down to the Home Depot, you can be precise in Imperials. 00:54:23.780 --> 00:54:27.560 You just have to do more complicated multiplication, that's all. 00:54:28.120 --> 00:54:30.880 Well, metric is good because the maths is easier. 00:54:31.660 --> 00:54:33.340 I'm 100% on board. 00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:36.080 I don't use Imperial measures unless it's going to get me killed. 00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:45.300 like i i could set my speedometer in my car in metric but i don't because the signs are not 00:54:45.940 --> 00:54:51.940 and i don't want to be driving down the road and go oh it's 45 what is that no just those need to 00:54:52.020 --> 00:54:58.400 safety first always do that but otherwise and i give no quarter people it's like but but go to 00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:07.980 home depot and you can get screws yeah you can you can get screws most of them are imperial but 00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:14.460 you can get metric ones they are there but there are there are fewer and if you want to buy yourself 00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:22.920 a tape measure uh you'll be lucky if they have one metric and the rest or yardsticks or anything 00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:30.020 like that it's it's just overwhelmingly what's available and we have the one one we have it both 00:55:30.040 --> 00:55:38.040 we have both but it's like 90 oh uh i don't have any of those for uh uh uh tape measures 00:55:38.980 --> 00:55:42.720 yardsticks maybe but you know it's still it's it's still either a yardstick or a meter stick 00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:49.440 they are different lengths you know hand me the yardstick if and you know i can't measure a meter 00:55:49.460 --> 00:55:54.900 with this because it's not long enough if we if we want to go off on this tangent and we probably 00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:00.980 ought to we ought to head back to the episode but the the thing if you're a railway modeler is 00:56:01.680 --> 00:56:08.720 that a lot of the scales are like four millimeters to the foot or seven millimeters to the foot yeah 00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:14.040 i have no idea what's going on well you just buy him in the right size and go on 00:56:14.580 --> 00:56:16.040 All right, back to the episode. 00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:20.140 Our hiker was Susan Twist. 00:56:20.840 --> 00:56:22.680 And we have a new twist on this story. 00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:26.100 See what you did there? 00:56:26.980 --> 00:56:27.840 Have I met you before? 00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:36.060 So it is finally percolating into their brain that they've seen. 00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:38.660 Well, into her alternate timeline brain. 00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:43.100 Well, it's only been a few minutes since she's been in the alternate timeline at that point. 00:56:43.660 --> 00:56:46.260 So she should be picking it up from. 00:56:46.640 --> 00:56:47.820 Yeah, but she won't remember this. 00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:48.900 No, she won't remember this. 00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:49.760 Maybe when she makes her. 00:56:50.600 --> 00:56:52.080 She'll do exactly the same thing. 00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:53.040 Quite possibly. 00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:54.260 Quite possibly. 00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:55.520 It's just it's interesting. 00:56:55.580 --> 00:56:59.380 This is the first indication that that that noticed her. 00:57:00.500 --> 00:57:02.720 So I think that means we're building to something. 00:57:03.040 --> 00:57:05.700 We also had Mrs. Flood in the episode. 00:57:07.120 --> 00:57:09.140 Kind of weird cameo. 00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:10.380 Oh, you're taking your memories. 00:57:10.600 --> 00:57:11.820 Well, this doesn't concern me. 00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:14.420 and then just head off back into their apartment. 00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:17.680 Or whatever. 00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:21.600 So I think that's also there to remind us 00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:25.820 that that's a thing that's not been resolved. 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:28.160 Lethbridge Stewart says there's been a lot more 00:57:28.460 --> 00:57:29.460 supernatural stuff lately. 00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:32.740 That's just... 00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:35.240 That actually... 00:57:35.620 --> 00:57:36.820 You know, like I said, 00:57:37.080 --> 00:57:40.120 I would dearly love them to end this season 00:57:40.140 --> 00:57:43.220 by undoing this supernatural nonsense 00:57:43.580 --> 00:57:45.620 by turning out that they're in the land of fiction 00:57:45.660 --> 00:57:47.120 or whatever it happens to be. 00:57:47.660 --> 00:57:49.040 But, you know, going into the season, 00:57:49.300 --> 00:57:51.660 RTD is like, yeah, we've opened the universe 00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:55.020 for Supernatural so I can tell more stories, 00:57:55.420 --> 00:57:58.520 although more bad stories is not. 00:57:59.060 --> 00:58:01.060 But anyway, he keeps saying that. 00:58:01.300 --> 00:58:05.660 I am now hoping that your mantra that RTD lies 00:58:07.140 --> 00:58:09.760 is he's just, that's part of his promotional gimmick. 00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:14.420 so i'm telling you it's the way it is but it's not going to be the way it is it's going to end 00:58:14.740 --> 00:58:19.920 we're going to get rid of this it's got to end it's going to end one way or the other it's going 00:58:19.930 --> 00:58:29.520 to end whether it's going 00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:55.360 It's one of my nits that I'm going to pick at because I've taken a slightly different position to you on whether you can sort of tell a, quote, non-Doctor Who story in Doctor Who because I enjoyed it. 00:58:56.200 --> 00:59:11.440 But when you're writing a non-time travel story and she goes into the pub and she's only got her phone and she tries to pay on the phone and she can't pay on the phone and everyone's going, oh, that's because you're racially concluding that all Welsh people are backwards. 00:59:11.660 --> 00:59:13.060 Yes, of course, you can pay on the phone here. 00:59:13.630 --> 00:59:13.920 I don't. 00:59:14.340 --> 00:59:18.300 I'm not saying it's a funny gag, but it kind of it. 00:59:18.940 --> 00:59:19.540 It works. 00:59:20.060 --> 00:59:30.340 But what doesn't work is if you have a time travel story and she goes into the pub and tries to pay on the phone and it doesn't occur to her to ask, what year is this? 00:59:31.020 --> 00:59:31.200 Yeah. 00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:33.660 Like being able to pay on the phone. 00:59:34.620 --> 00:59:36.040 That's I mean, what? 00:59:36.140 --> 00:59:36.940 She's 18. 00:59:37.130 --> 00:59:37.280 Yeah. 00:59:37.900 --> 00:59:39.540 That's something that has been possible. 00:59:40.200 --> 00:59:43.180 I don't know, since she was early teens, I guess. 00:59:43.180 --> 00:59:45.080 I can't even remember how long Apple Pay's been around. 00:59:45.900 --> 00:59:53.940 but she's not too young to know that this is a thing that wasn't around a few years ago 00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:59.980 and she's not been anywhere that makes it that obvious that she's in the present day and she 01:00:00.140 --> 01:00:04.820 knows she's in the time machine so why doesn't she ask what year is this when they're kind of going 01:00:05.220 --> 01:00:11.080 what do you mean pay with the phone i i want her to say what year is i can see them really ragging 01:00:11.100 --> 01:00:18.440 her hard after that one um she asked that question like yeah and just and and and in that case 01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:23.880 justifiably so but you know wouldn't you wouldn't you ask that can you wouldn't that be what can 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:29.500 ask this question can you pay with apple pay tap to pay google pay whatever you want we want to 01:00:29.820 --> 01:00:33.700 call it here but in this case it is a phone specifically a phone transfer not just 01:00:34.600 --> 01:00:39.980 contactless payment uh can you do that everywhere in the uk because you can't hear 01:00:40.140 --> 01:00:58.580 Yeah. You cannot do that here yet everywhere. It's getting there. But I live in, I don't know, what, third, fourth largest city in the United States, and I still encounter places that don't take that on a weekly basis. It's not. 01:00:58.820 --> 01:01:02.840 There are places that only take cash, but they're pretty few and far between. 01:01:02.900 --> 01:01:08.600 There are a few places that only take cash, but there are still places that only take swipe credit cards in this country. 01:01:09.060 --> 01:01:10.200 And, man, their days are numbered. 01:01:10.620 --> 01:01:15.660 But, you know, you can walk in and it's— 01:01:15.660 --> 01:01:16.040 Yes, but don't have a map. 01:01:16.160 --> 01:01:22.600 Our place is typically—I mean, I've absolutely seen the terminal that that woman put forward on the bar. 01:01:23.040 --> 01:01:25.540 So I'm not saying we don't have those because we definitely do have those. 01:01:25.900 --> 01:01:32.620 But, you know, many places that the credit card readers have been mounted by the till facing the customer. 01:01:33.180 --> 01:01:38.000 So you look at that thing and you go, oh, that's that takes Apple Pay to have to pay whatever. 01:01:38.240 --> 01:01:41.380 And they, you know, pay and do it. 01:01:41.380 --> 01:01:48.000 And that's the thing. It's fewer places that have it hiding behind the the counter and you don't see it. 01:01:48.100 --> 01:01:54.320 the El Taco Tote, I'll give them a shout out. I like El Taco Tote down the street, uh, from my 01:01:54.380 --> 01:02:01.740 house has that exact reader. I'm sure it's that exact reader and it's kind of, they kind of keep 01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:05.120 it hidden behind the counter. You don't see it until you ask. It's like, you need to take Apple 01:02:05.300 --> 01:02:10.660 pay. I do have to do that. Uh, not now cause I know they have it, but you know, there are places 01:02:10.820 --> 01:02:15.360 like that where you go, like, do you take Apple pay? Uh, and then they say, Oh no, we don't take 01:02:15.380 --> 01:02:24.100 apple pay and then i give them a big isl have to dig out through all it to try to make them 01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:32.140 understand what a how they put me out but so i mean it's not it didn't it doesn't feel unnatural 01:02:32.300 --> 01:02:38.140 spoiled your whole week does not feel unnatural to me for ruby to walk into a place where you 01:02:38.380 --> 01:02:44.720 cannot see the card reader and ask if you could pay by phone not at all that's completely 01:02:45.160 --> 01:02:47.700 and absolutely not abnormal for an American. 01:02:48.640 --> 01:02:52.940 So that scene plays like pay by phone. 01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:58.640 Well, yeah, that just plays like they are being the biggest jerks imaginable. 01:02:59.280 --> 01:02:59.740 Well, they are. 01:02:59.980 --> 01:03:04.000 So not like, oh, you are not like, oh, you racist person. 01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:06.120 Oh, you found a witchy thing. 01:03:06.250 --> 01:03:09.440 You found a fairy circle up at the top of the hill. 01:03:09.620 --> 01:03:11.180 You stepped in a fairy circle. 01:03:11.230 --> 01:03:12.040 You come down here. 01:03:12.180 --> 01:03:18.940 You tell people about stepping in the fairy circle and they're all like, yeah, that's what you get for thinking we're all a bunch of superstitious. 01:03:19.100 --> 01:03:22.500 It was like, why wouldn't you think you're superstitious? 01:03:22.680 --> 01:03:24.860 There's a freaking fairy circle up on top of the hill. 01:03:25.500 --> 01:03:27.060 It's like, it's not a hundred. 01:03:27.200 --> 01:03:27.740 I mean, sure. 01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:31.760 She didn't come in and say, hey, a bunch of superstitious rubes. 01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:33.020 What the heck's going on here? 01:03:33.680 --> 01:03:39.040 They just jumped to that conclusion that that she thought they were all a bunch of superstitious. 01:03:39.200 --> 01:03:41.120 Like the evidence is in her favor. 01:03:41.860 --> 01:03:43.920 It's like there is a fairy circle. 01:03:44.220 --> 01:03:45.180 You knew what it was. 01:03:46.240 --> 01:03:47.680 And somebody built it. 01:03:48.140 --> 01:03:49.380 Somebody probably in Wales. 01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:52.620 Well, I assume they're Welsh too, but, you know, they built it in Wales. 01:03:53.180 --> 01:03:55.600 And then there's a creepy lady following her at a weird distance. 01:03:56.080 --> 01:03:58.080 I can get why she... 01:03:58.080 --> 01:03:58.540 They're just... 01:03:59.020 --> 01:03:59.800 Yeah, they're just being... 01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:01.380 They're just jerks. 01:04:01.700 --> 01:04:02.720 Man, they were just jerks. 01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:04.240 I mean, it was funny. 01:04:04.740 --> 01:04:05.620 It was funny. 01:04:06.120 --> 01:04:10.240 But, you know, humor at the expense of other people is, you know, not the enlightened way. 01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:19.520 I, so, well, I don't, I mean, I didn't, as a viewer, I mean, maybe the people, well, obviously the people in the pub found it funny that they were playing Trickle Ruby. 01:04:19.640 --> 01:04:36.140 As a viewer, I didn't find the pub scene to be particularly entertaining because I didn't feel like it was, I didn't, I didn't get, it didn't feel like a recognisable situation. 01:04:36.300 --> 01:04:39.780 I didn't get what the motivations of the characters were. 01:04:40.340 --> 01:04:48.000 It felt more than anything else like it was entirely a pastiche of an American werewolf in London. 01:04:48.320 --> 01:04:48.380 Yeah. 01:04:49.140 --> 01:04:54.820 But that it wasn't done with the same kind of lightness of touch. 01:04:54.850 --> 01:04:56.420 And also because the period's different. 01:04:56.950 --> 01:04:59.600 You know, you have to update it in some way. 01:04:59.610 --> 01:05:03.660 And I don't think they quite got it right in terms of how they updated it. 01:05:04.220 --> 01:05:07.300 So I found all of that quite grating. 01:05:07.370 --> 01:05:10.180 And I was not enjoying the episode at that point, if I'm honest. 01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:16.400 what was a welcome surprise was that that wasn't going to be the whole episode i thought by the 01:05:16.420 --> 01:05:22.440 time she got to the pub that that was it i thought we were going to get the characters in in the pub 01:05:23.240 --> 01:05:27.820 and that and we would know we would get to know all of them very well and they would 01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:33.780 one by one speak to the woman and run off or whatever and when that turned out not to be the 01:05:33.720 --> 01:05:40.680 case i was you know pleasantly surprised because the episode definitely improved from from there on 01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:47.760 in do you think english trains are 73 yards long i should think they're a lot longer you think the 01:05:47.830 --> 01:05:52.980 woman could just be in one of the other cars that's a fair point fair point yeah let's ruby 01:05:53.120 --> 01:05:59.020 well i did think it was interesting which is i'd not go on a boat or a plane in order not to 01:05:59.560 --> 01:06:07.120 drowning the woman all yeah i so you know here's the scene on the train okay she looks out the 01:06:07.200 --> 01:06:12.160 window the woman is there i was like that is creepy oh you look out the window the woman is 01:06:12.260 --> 01:06:16.720 there oh that is creepy oh you see out the window the things but and i think you would appreciate 01:06:16.920 --> 01:06:22.920 the maths that if you look out the window and you see the woman and the train moves she's not 73 01:06:22.940 --> 01:06:28.700 yards away from you anymore if she doesn't that bothered me that did bother me some it's like 01:06:29.120 --> 01:06:36.520 maybe shouldn't that woman be like hovering or something and just like a like a you know like 01:06:36.520 --> 01:06:45.300 the moon follows you when you're probably it just it was uh it was good but it was uh it was 01:06:45.780 --> 01:06:52.320 odd um let's see the doctor is brilliant uh he has been for a long time we discussed this a 01:06:52.200 --> 01:06:57.940 previous episode he knows everything uh he can he can cough off roger app williams off the top of 01:06:57.940 --> 01:07:04.060 his head but he doesn't know what year he picked up his friend a couple months ago in yeah clunky 01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:12.020 i thought yeah yeah um and obviously roger app williams is the worst welshman ever because that's 01:07:12.120 --> 01:07:20.800 the one that came to mind so um old mad jack there is a line which i kind of liked but at the same 01:07:20.820 --> 01:07:28.960 time i didn't um and that is i hope you're not having a pee around the back it's like okay fair 01:07:29.180 --> 01:07:36.400 enough i you know i mean you don't know what the doctor's urological configuration is they might 01:07:37.080 --> 01:07:41.940 go whip around the back the tardis and take a leak i mean that's people do that sort of thing 01:07:42.620 --> 01:07:49.520 um but man rtd's got a toilet humor fixation previous inclination but once yeah 01:07:50.120 --> 01:07:56.140 and who knows we don't know we don't know about that income we don't know about time lords because 01:07:56.420 --> 01:08:02.220 they're not men and women as we understand them so it's true i don't think we've ever seen the 01:08:02.300 --> 01:08:07.620 dr p that's right and and i don't think we ever needed to have that thought brought into our 01:08:07.900 --> 01:08:14.580 minds but mr toilet fixation has brought that one around too on the other hand there's only so much 01:08:14.600 --> 01:08:22.140 tea that any life form can drink without yeah anyway moving on the eye of harmony maybe burns 01:08:22.140 --> 01:08:29.480 it from the inside um filmed the artron energy thrives on tea that's what it uses to fuel it 01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:35.580 filmed in temby pembrokeshire are you do you feel cheated because i know you're in pembrokeshire but 01:08:35.720 --> 01:08:41.759 nowhere near there yeah well i'm not nowhere near there temby's not that far away i did know i did 01:08:41.740 --> 01:08:46.720 know they were filming down at tembe i can't remember when it was but it wasn't a massive 01:08:46.950 --> 01:08:55.160 secret it looked like 60 to 60 miles or more at least down the coat yeah it could be i mean i i 01:08:55.359 --> 01:09:02.560 saw i thought you would as an american would think that you know 60 miles was just yes but i 01:09:03.029 --> 01:09:09.100 but i've been to the uk and i've talked with people and they talk about distances of five 01:09:09.160 --> 01:09:17.339 or six miles as being you know a long way off so thought you would work on that on that principle 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:23.520 well that's the next town down in the living room i think five or five or six five or six miles is 01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:30.000 not that far i don't think tembi can be quite 60 miles as the crow flies but i i would need to 01:09:30.100 --> 01:09:39.460 probably pack a few batteries in my bike to to make it there uh yeah see um the whole mad jack 01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:45.440 thing seemed a little bit uh contrived i mean it's not even his name they couldn't even call him 01:09:45.650 --> 01:09:51.020 jack app williams wouldn't that have been a wouldn't that have been a better match call him 01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:58.880 but instead it's like i was a jack of all trades they called me mad jack what that's a strange 01:09:58.900 --> 01:10:06.960 choice uh oh here's another one old ruby let's call her old ruby mystery 73 year away lady 73 01:10:07.220 --> 01:10:13.660 yard away lady um wouldn't it have been better if she'd been 73 years away too just saying oh 01:10:14.280 --> 01:10:19.100 maybe she was no i think i worked it out it couldn't be she seems to be trying to communicate 01:10:19.940 --> 01:10:25.280 she's repeating the same hand gestures over and over she touches her heart she looks at a book 01:10:25.300 --> 01:10:29.000 She waves her arms wide for a moment. 01:10:29.420 --> 01:10:34.180 It's like she's trying to communicate something to Ruby. 01:10:34.820 --> 01:10:37.280 She's constantly doing that all the time. 01:10:37.710 --> 01:10:40.900 Whenever she sees her, that feels like she's trying to communicate. 01:10:41.720 --> 01:10:42.160 Never worked. 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:43.720 Never accomplished anything. 01:10:44.380 --> 01:10:45.060 Has no point. 01:10:45.660 --> 01:10:46.880 Creepy, right? 01:10:46.990 --> 01:10:47.700 It feels creepy. 01:10:48.460 --> 01:10:54.880 But if it was meant to be communication, it's like the single most ineffective communication ever. 01:10:55.580 --> 01:11:01.240 let's see oh yeah i do have to ask if i were if i go to a pub in the uk and i order a coke because 01:11:01.270 --> 01:11:07.840 i don't drink beer will they also be assholes to me about that not just welsh no they'll still 01:11:08.010 --> 01:11:14.460 charge me six pounds but yeah i mean i i don't i was not it's called pub but i was gonna i was 01:11:14.500 --> 01:11:20.760 gonna say this is also the thing yeah i mean yeah i don't i don't think it makes any sense 01:11:20.780 --> 01:11:24.920 To me, it seems like soft drinks in pubs are extremely expensive. 01:11:25.550 --> 01:11:31.140 I understand that, you know, there are all sorts of costs that have to be covered by the drink. 01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:39.040 But when you buy an alcoholic drink, a lot of the costs are duty and they're not there for a soft drink. 01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:47.560 But also, if you're the landlady and you're charging less for a soft drink and you're not paying duty, 01:11:48.300 --> 01:11:55.540 then wouldn't you actually prefer your customers to order the soft drinks because more of it you 01:11:55.570 --> 01:12:00.760 get to keep? Dying good question. Didn't make sense to me. I wasn't sure. They haven't actually 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:04.260 run a pub, so I may have missed something there. And I've never actually been in one. 01:12:05.260 --> 01:12:11.540 After it being pointless to be that rude, it just didn't seem logical. And maybe this is an 01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:17.720 American perception. I don't know. When my wife were in and I were in the UK, we never set foot 01:12:17.740 --> 01:12:26.260 in a pub we're not drinkers either one of us me by choice my wife by genetics um but and we know 01:12:26.260 --> 01:12:30.980 you can go in and get food and you know as you get the fish and chips so we never set foot in there 01:12:31.040 --> 01:12:38.440 because we felt uncomfortable with the idea of going in and ordering something to drink that 01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:44.880 was not alcoholic so i don't know if that's a so that's why i raised this question because 01:12:44.900 --> 01:12:49.720 that happens in this episode and i go oh that's exactly what i thought was gonna happen 01:12:50.470 --> 01:12:56.060 they're gonna make a snide remark and then they're gonna charge me an outrageous amount for it but 01:12:56.090 --> 01:13:03.200 um yeah yeah i don't know uh let's see we have the spiteful one mentioned this time which could 01:13:03.200 --> 01:13:11.800 be mad jack but that's a that's a new name of the oldest one the one who waits the spiteful one 01:13:11.820 --> 01:13:17.240 me and i got another one and when they mentioned mad jack's name boom perfectly timed thunderclap 01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:22.460 which you know only could happen in a ghost story so that's why i think this is not real 01:13:23.140 --> 01:13:29.860 i i don't understand that you can possibly think doctor who is not real uh carla does call the 01:13:30.120 --> 01:13:39.659 doctor an intergalactic nutcase so she clearly knows what he is what he does um what ruby is 01:13:39.640 --> 01:13:45.360 off doing i mean i i know the other families have had to put up with it too but in this case 01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:51.660 you never really got that and i and i and i think i mean yeah he wouldn't it wouldn't occur to him to 01:13:52.740 --> 01:13:59.000 to have ruby keep it a secret or whatever you know jackie was always going on it and i think that i 01:13:59.060 --> 01:14:05.281 think that's partly because of the that the closeness of those relationships like rtd couldn't 01:14:05.300 --> 01:14:12.800 have rose not tell jackie something like that and i i think he can't imagine ruby not telling carla 01:14:13.200 --> 01:14:20.500 the truth but again you do have to convince carla as well i think we got some we got some proof 01:14:21.080 --> 01:14:29.381 jackie and and martha's mom and sylvia all of them ultimately got a certain amount of 01:14:29.420 --> 01:14:35.780 encountering with the doctor that proved it but once again in the church on ruby road because it 01:14:35.780 --> 01:14:42.060 was all undone they have no proof they have they hang on he parked the ardus he did land the 01:14:42.200 --> 01:14:50.260 inner kitchen and that never really yeah i guess it disappeared like maybe maybe that's good enough 01:14:50.490 --> 01:14:57.281 a kitchen appears to be pretty well repaired i thought in this episode i was i was curious about 01:14:57.300 --> 01:15:01.720 that because i thought there might be cracks or an unpainted ceiling where it had been 01:15:02.620 --> 01:15:10.800 repaired or something but yeah did you notice that roger app williams uh mantra for his news 01:15:10.980 --> 01:15:18.880 interview was no more 50th anniversary reference oh i didn't notice that no okay no i didn't notice 01:15:18.880 --> 01:15:24.301 that i kind of guess i was kind of slightly more impressed by the fact that he'd managed the rtd 01:15:24.320 --> 01:15:33.580 had managed to include an episode of an election in it and get it aired two days after an election 01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:40.580 was called in the UK. Quite an impressive piece of foresight. Yeah. I will say on the, there are 01:15:41.180 --> 01:15:46.400 various kind of sections. I've had a nitpick at the pub section. So I will say, since we're talking 01:15:46.480 --> 01:15:56.220 about the app William kind of period of the episode I I'm not I'm not super keen on RTD 01:15:56.440 --> 01:16:02.000 writing these kind of political stories he does it in years and years obviously as well and they've 01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:10.160 all been terrible um I well they generally speaking they're never great I thought this was 01:16:10.240 --> 01:16:18.000 probably the best that he's done. It's partly because it's set 20 years in the future. 01:16:18.750 --> 01:16:22.620 And so I think you can say, well, politics now will not be the same as politics is then. You 01:16:22.620 --> 01:16:28.100 can have the Albion Party. So you're not, you know, it's not supposed to reflect either today's 01:16:28.340 --> 01:16:34.800 Conservative Party or today's Labour Party. It looks a lot more like American politics to me. 01:16:35.440 --> 01:16:41.640 but then again you could say in 20 years what's to say that british politics won't i mean we've 01:16:41.740 --> 01:16:46.400 already copied lots of aspects of american politics so why might it not look a lot more like 01:16:46.540 --> 01:16:52.360 that and also the fact they've got amal rajan doing the interview rather than say trinity wells 01:16:53.160 --> 01:16:58.900 because i always think if you're going to do if you're going to get a journalist if you're going 01:16:58.900 --> 01:17:03.140 to have a journalist you should get a real journalist to do it actors for some reason can 01:17:03.160 --> 01:17:10.080 never acts like journalists or you know maybe no actor can give a perfect perfect representation of 01:17:10.140 --> 01:17:15.940 any profession but we all listen to journalists all the time as much as we listen to actors and 01:17:15.960 --> 01:17:22.820 it never sounds quite right when an actor does an impression yeah i suppose um i have exactly one 01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:28.440 other note here so i'll turn it off turn it over to you for any other things that you have after i 01:17:28.440 --> 01:17:35.300 just point out that the one time we can hear the old lady speaking sort of i mean it's a ghostly 01:17:35.440 --> 01:17:43.320 voice right there at the end when ruby's looking at her she's saying don't stare i think sadly uh 01:17:43.540 --> 01:17:50.200 subtitles uh not working uh on my configuration for watching this this particular episode but 01:17:50.520 --> 01:17:56.619 it seemed pretty clear to me the first time i watched it that it's saying and then when i 01:17:56.520 --> 01:18:02.640 rewatched it it really sounds like they're saying don't stare don't stare but that's and when she 01:18:02.670 --> 01:18:07.120 looks away then the woman's gone all right what else you got what else can we pick on that was 01:18:07.240 --> 01:18:12.500 that that was the bit that was the bit that reminded me of 2001 it's that kind of and in a 01:18:12.540 --> 01:18:18.920 way that's maybe why i don't necessarily expect expect to understand the explanation of how you 01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:25.200 know how all of that works i think it's because she's lying in bed but also just because it's a 01:18:25.100 --> 01:18:32.460 weird and spookily lit oh i see what you mean i was gonna say i'm not getting 2001 out of this 01:18:32.490 --> 01:18:38.080 but okay the i'm in bed the monolith comes towards you there's a bunch of flashbacks or 01:18:38.760 --> 01:18:45.580 psychedelic visions okay yeah yeah i can kind of see that yeah it was that it was that the the the 01:18:45.840 --> 01:18:52.201 last thing i think on on all last but one i just want to ask one question but the the kind of i've 01:18:52.220 --> 01:18:56.080 I've talked about the section in the pub, 01:18:57.620 --> 01:18:58.780 kind of misgivings about some of that, 01:18:58.820 --> 01:19:01.660 some of the misgivings about the political section, 01:19:01.720 --> 01:19:02.840 which were lesser. 01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:06.460 And then there's the unit thing. 01:19:07.240 --> 01:19:12.140 I mean, I was happy to see Gemma Radgrave appearing again. 01:19:12.140 --> 01:19:15.780 It's always good to have unit in this configuration 01:19:16.500 --> 01:19:17.120 appear in the episode. 01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:28.660 I didn't necessarily need a detailed, boring explanation of how Ruby had tracked Unit down or how Unit tracked Ruby down or however the hell they came across each other. 01:19:29.220 --> 01:19:37.380 But I kind of felt like I might have wanted a throwaway line or an explanation of that because it all seemed a bit pat like there they are. 01:19:37.470 --> 01:19:41.160 And Kate is doing a hard sell on Ruby, I think. 01:19:41.380 --> 01:19:45.800 She's trying to, at the same time, reassure her, bring her in. 01:19:46.380 --> 01:19:48.120 She never met Ruby with the Doctor. 01:19:48.630 --> 01:19:48.760 Right. 01:19:50.120 --> 01:19:56.460 I don't know how she knows that Ruby is a companion of the Doctor. 01:19:56.620 --> 01:19:57.640 And why it took her a year. 01:19:58.280 --> 01:20:00.320 It feels like this was an arranged meeting. 01:20:00.940 --> 01:20:03.340 This feels like one of them called the other and said, 01:20:03.340 --> 01:20:03.580 Yes, it does. 01:20:03.890 --> 01:20:04.320 Meet me. 01:20:04.690 --> 01:20:08.920 But it's not clear whether Ruby called Unit or Unit called Ruby. 01:20:09.530 --> 01:20:09.720 Yeah. 01:20:10.320 --> 01:20:36.800 And yeah, so I guess the reason that probably the kind of the conversation goes that way and the dynamic between them is like that is because it's important from a story perspective that it's very clear that Kate is trying to recruit Ruby, is trying to reassure her, look after her, make her feel supported, 01:20:36.860 --> 01:20:45.560 do all the kind of things that will be in complete contrast to her abandoning her turning around and running off. 01:20:46.420 --> 01:20:56.180 But I didn't necessarily feel like I understood in the first place why it was that Kate was doing all of that. 01:20:56.760 --> 01:20:56.940 Yeah. 01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:02.880 I also, while we're on Kate, I also don't understand why she's Kate Lethbridge-Stewart. 01:21:03.300 --> 01:21:06.680 I think she was in The Giggle, too. 01:21:07.280 --> 01:21:11.660 she was credited in the game or was she actually referred to as lethbridge stewart in the doctor 01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:17.560 literally said kate lethbridge stewart i i think did we discuss it and i've forgotten about it 01:21:18.180 --> 01:21:24.340 i kind of i think we did mention that they called her that but i dear i'm getting old well we might 01:21:24.340 --> 01:21:31.261 have mentioned it off off time but it it is i mean i okay i prefer lethbridge stewart but 01:21:31.280 --> 01:21:40.340 But I, well, yeah, I don't, I mean, yeah, I guess it is just to kind of link her more obviously back to the Brigadier. 01:21:40.400 --> 01:21:48.320 But the fact that she was Kate Stewart and she was Kate Stewart, I think, from Power of Three right through to Power of the Doctor. 01:21:49.080 --> 01:21:52.140 Yeah, it just feels weird that suddenly it's different. 01:21:53.000 --> 01:21:53.260 Never mind. 01:21:53.300 --> 01:21:54.700 Well, it's because we're in an alternate universe. 01:21:54.740 --> 01:21:55.660 So my final question. 01:21:56.260 --> 01:21:56.380 No. 01:21:56.860 --> 01:22:01.740 Well, yes, that occurred to me, but I think it's probably not. 01:22:03.160 --> 01:22:06.020 The final question, just to kind of like aside, 01:22:06.380 --> 01:22:08.880 is this Sian Phillips' first appearance in Doctor Who? 01:22:09.460 --> 01:22:11.000 I know she's done lots of Big Finish, 01:22:11.600 --> 01:22:14.260 but has she ever done the show on TV before? 01:22:14.860 --> 01:22:16.100 I don't know who that is. 01:22:16.440 --> 01:22:21.480 She's the woman on the bar stool in the pub, 01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:23.020 the seeming English professor. 01:22:24.800 --> 01:22:25.460 Well, she's Welsh. 01:22:26.060 --> 01:22:30.420 She's Welsh, I know, but she comes off English as in the English language in this case, I guess. 01:22:30.420 --> 01:22:31.700 She comes off as a professor, yeah. 01:22:32.300 --> 01:22:32.760 Yes, yes, yes. 01:22:32.880 --> 01:22:34.400 Yes, she definitely comes off that way. 01:22:35.900 --> 01:22:37.640 And she is, I'm guessing, a legend? 01:22:39.500 --> 01:22:42.340 Yeah, I'd say she's quite a big cheese in the acting world. 01:22:42.340 --> 01:22:44.500 Is she bigger cheese than the barkeep? 01:22:45.100 --> 01:22:46.640 I have no idea who the barkeep was. 01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:47.860 Okay, then I think we're fake. 01:22:47.940 --> 01:23:02.340 There is a line in that interview thing that I saw with Russell RTD that he says, and we've got, and he names somebody, absolute legend, and I can't believe she's never been in Doctor Who before. 01:23:03.160 --> 01:23:05.540 And we've all wanted to do it for years. 01:23:05.980 --> 01:23:11.260 You know, that over-enthusiastic way, Doctor Vichon says, I think it is. 01:23:11.540 --> 01:23:12.180 I think it is. 01:23:12.540 --> 01:23:17.360 But then, you know, I watch that and I go, but I don't know who she is. 01:23:17.680 --> 01:23:25.580 So she was in, like, I, Claudius, and, yeah, she's been around forever. 01:23:27.300 --> 01:23:30.880 Among other things for Big Finish, she has done Warmaster stories, 01:23:31.010 --> 01:23:35.420 and obviously Derek Jacoby was in, was Claudius. 01:23:36.740 --> 01:23:40.880 So, you know, the extras for that CD have all the kind of 01:23:41.580 --> 01:23:43.280 lovey-ish reunion stuff in there. 01:23:43.280 --> 01:23:46.960 But she's actually done a ton of Big Finish stuff. 01:23:47.300 --> 01:23:52.400 she has a fabulous voice so you know if she's if she's willing to do it of course well yes it's 01:23:52.400 --> 01:24:02.300 to it oh she's she's definitely um very well very that stereotype that that that precise i mean yes 01:24:02.460 --> 01:24:09.860 there's an accent there but it has that sort of regal-ish precise uh diction uh know-it-all 01:24:10.220 --> 01:24:15.960 kind of mind yeah it worked it worked except she was she was rotten to them too to her 01:24:17.300 --> 01:24:25.360 well yes do we have anything else i think not uh okay uh off the top of my head i don't know the 01:24:25.660 --> 01:24:32.720 name of the nexus like bubble and squeak or dot and dot and pop or dip and dots uh 01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:40.041 not not a good name but uh uh it's uh dot and okay dot and bubble not bubble and squeak 01:24:40.060 --> 01:24:41.680 I like Bubble and Squeak better. 01:24:42.020 --> 01:24:44.520 I do, but I guess we'll find out. 01:24:45.180 --> 01:24:46.420 Simon, thank you for joining me. 01:24:46.900 --> 01:24:47.900 It's a pleasure, as always. 01:24:48.800 --> 01:24:53.240 And listeners, I do hope you'll join us all again next time on Fusion Patrol. 01:24:55.720 --> 01:24:57.880 You've been listening to Fusion Patrol. 01:24:58.600 --> 01:24:59.160 Thanks for listening. 01:25:01.400 --> 01:25:04.580 If you've enjoyed this episode, we hope you'll consider supporting us at 01:25:04.920 --> 01:25:09.680 buymeacoffee.com slash Fusion Patrol or patreon.com slash Fusion Patrol. 01:25:10.540 --> 01:25:16.040 For our monthly Patreon subscribers, we're currently running a special series on Babylon 5. 01:25:18.140 --> 01:25:22.560 Come join the conversation and find other content at FusionPatrol.com. 01:25:23.160 --> 01:25:28.220 And we're back on social media, where you can also follow us on Mastodon and the Fediverse. 01:25:28.960 --> 01:25:32.820 Our address is at podcast at FusionPatrol.com. 01:25:35.360 --> 01:25:38.220 Our music is Fight the Future by Amber Wolf. 01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:43.240 This has been a Lone Locust production.