WEBVTT 00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:11.280 you're listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:18.440 each week we take a single episode of a science fiction tv series movie or 00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:24.980 audio and overanalyze it to within an inch of its life welcome to the discussion 00:00:31.360 --> 00:00:33.280 Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:34.160 I'm Eugene. 00:00:34.910 --> 00:00:35.560 And I'm Simon. 00:00:36.220 --> 00:00:48.400 And it's another one of our hastily put together as quickly as we possibly can episodes after watching Doctor Who Season 2024 Episode 3 Boom by Stephen Moffat. 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.040 Episode Synopsis. 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:56.920 On the planet Castarian III, Anglican Marines wage war against an unseen enemy. 00:00:57.580 --> 00:01:01.840 Casualties are high, made worse by a malfunctioning robotic ambulance force, 00:01:02.060 --> 00:01:06.040 which makes on-battlefield decisions about the economic viability of treatment 00:01:06.440 --> 00:01:09.600 and the prognosis of a speedy return to fighting status. 00:01:10.360 --> 00:01:13.100 One soldier, John Vader, has been blinded, 00:01:13.220 --> 00:01:17.580 and his companion Carson tries to lead him back to base and his young daughter, 00:01:18.380 --> 00:01:20.560 without the ambulances finding him. 00:01:21.140 --> 00:01:24.320 Carson falls down an embankment and trots on a landmine. 00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:26.780 Boom. Carson is no more. 00:01:27.310 --> 00:01:29.900 A nearby ambulance is drawn to the sound of the explosion, 00:01:30.290 --> 00:01:35.300 finds Vader, and upon diagnosing his blindness as being not viable economically, kills him. 00:01:35.900 --> 00:01:37.440 Into this, the TARDIS lands. 00:01:37.570 --> 00:01:41.820 The doctor, hearing Vader's death scream, runs willy-nilly across the battlefield 00:01:42.510 --> 00:01:44.020 until he steps on the landmine. 00:01:44.660 --> 00:01:49.420 But it doesn't go off because of what I can only classify as really stupid programming. 00:01:50.100 --> 00:01:54.820 unable to move, the doctor calls Ruby and has her describe the landmine to him. 00:01:55.620 --> 00:02:00.740 Realizing the nature of the landmine, the doctor must remain perfectly still, balanced on one foot. 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:05.540 He tasks Ruby with finding a counterweight that they can use to allow him to set his other foot 00:02:05.720 --> 00:02:11.640 down. What she finds are the compressed remains of John Vader. It'll have to do, and after a 00:02:11.780 --> 00:02:17.000 tricky handoff, the doctor has two feet on the ground, so to speak. The AI landmine is trying 00:02:16.980 --> 00:02:22.820 determine if it has a live target on it. To avoid detection, the doctor must remain perfectly still 00:02:23.420 --> 00:02:30.820 and regulate his vital signs. Zen is the watchword. The compressed remains of John Vader also have an 00:02:30.980 --> 00:02:37.160 AI hologram of him as a form of memorial and final words for his next of kin. The hologram is activated 00:02:37.410 --> 00:02:43.320 and begins speaking to them. Splice Vader, Vader's young daughter, wandering the battlefield in search 00:02:43.340 --> 00:02:48.100 of her father, hears her father's voice and approaches the doctor. She rushes towards her 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:54.060 father's hologram, and Ruby must restrain her, lest she detonate the mine. Mundy Flynn, another 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.240 marine and friend of the Vader's, arrives and demands that the doctor drop Vader's remains. 00:02:58.980 --> 00:03:03.600 Trying to force him to drop it, she shoots him in the arm, but he desperately explains to her 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:09.620 that the landmines use the body of the victim as an explosive, and as a time lord, a complex 00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:15.480 space-time event, he will produce a much bigger bang than your average Anglican Marine. Certainly 00:03:15.550 --> 00:03:20.400 enough to shatter the entire battlefield. Mundy scans the doctor and realizes he's telling the 00:03:20.540 --> 00:03:25.040 truth, but an ambulance arrives looking for wounded. Mundy tells Ruby to shoot her with her 00:03:25.180 --> 00:03:31.220 gun, which is on the lowest setting. The ambulance will treat her and leave the others alone. Ruby 00:03:31.420 --> 00:03:36.519 tries to do this, but Mundy's associate, Kanto, arrives, sees Ruby holding a gun on Monday, and 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:42.440 shoots her, not on the lowest setting. The ambulance examines Ruby and determines that she 00:03:42.620 --> 00:03:48.820 is 3,082 years old. She is not of their faith, and therefore the ambulance is programmed not to 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:55.900 save her. It prepares to terminate her when the Ruby snow begins, and seems to cause some problems 00:03:55.910 --> 00:04:00.120 for the ambulance. The doctor has, of course, worked it all out. There are no enemies on the 00:04:00.270 --> 00:04:05.459 planet. The weapons manufacturer, Villengard, has built a closed money-making loop. Soldiers are 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:10.060 killed at a level that keeps the war going and keeps the weapons sales lucrative. All they have 00:04:10.140 --> 00:04:15.960 to do is surrender, but they can't do that. It takes a bishop to make that call. The doctor tries 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:22.900 a different tactic. He speaks to the Vader AI, dad to AI dad, and convinces him to enter the 00:04:23.140 --> 00:04:27.680 ambulance's network and do some reconnaissance work for him. Meanwhile, Canto tries accessing 00:04:27.860 --> 00:04:33.540 the ambulance's circuitry. While he does, he and Monday have a heart-to-heart talk. They admit that 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:37.960 They love one another, which of course means Kanto is instantly killed by the ambulance's defenses. 00:04:38.620 --> 00:04:43.760 Nothing says war sucks better than orphaned children and newfound love snuffed out in an instant. 00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:50.760 The ambulance announces that the John Vader AI, which was attempting unauthorized access, has been deleted. 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:53.200 More ambulances arrive. 00:04:53.900 --> 00:05:00.420 The new ambulances go inactive, the original one heals Ruby, and the landmine deactivates, allowing the doctor to step off safely. 00:05:00.940 --> 00:05:05.860 John Vader was not deleted, and instead of just doing a reconnaissance, has saved the day. 00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:07.620 The Doctor and Ruby leave. 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:08.480 Day in. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:09.420 All right. 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:10.520 What are your thoughts? 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:12.140 Six and a half years. 00:05:12.980 --> 00:05:15.560 It's been six and a half years since we had a Moffat episode. 00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:16.740 Mm-hmm. 00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:17.680 And? 00:05:19.180 --> 00:05:26.580 I tell you what, I almost mentioned this last week, but one of the reasons I was pleased to have a Moffat episode, 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.240 although slightly worried, was that it just seemed awful 00:05:30.500 --> 00:05:33.840 that the last Doctor Who episode he wrote was Twice Upon a Time, 00:05:33.960 --> 00:05:34.580 which I hated. 00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:40.660 So I was very keen to enjoy this one 00:05:41.440 --> 00:05:45.900 and for it to be a kind of classic Moffat. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.240 And there were loads of Moffat tropes in this. 00:05:49.420 --> 00:05:51.700 And I did enjoy this. 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:56.880 And I think, I mean, your commentary highlights the fact 00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:59.700 The satire in this is not subtle. 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:00.760 No. 00:06:02.880 --> 00:06:18.360 But, you know, unlike the kind of almost slightly crowbarred in stuff about refugees in Space Babies, for example, this is at the heart of the episode. 00:06:19.180 --> 00:06:21.760 And it's what drives it. 00:06:22.180 --> 00:06:47.280 Moffat builds a really kind of solid story around it and doesn't miss any of the opportunities to kind of drive home that message and makes it feel kind of particularly relevant to the present day, even though it's whatever, 3,060 odd years ahead of the present day. 00:06:47.420 --> 00:06:55.920 Well, I can tell you exactly what year it is, actually. I worked it out because it is the 5088 CE, late 51st century. 00:06:56.580 --> 00:06:57.640 How many years ahead is that? 00:06:58.200 --> 00:06:59.720 It is 3080. 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:06.640 Well, it's 3082 years is the age of rubies, so take 3082 minus 18. 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:07.920 She's 18. 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:10.480 Okay, I did minus 23. 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:12.500 She was 18 on Christmas Day. 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:16.940 Okay, so she's 3064, so yeah. 00:07:17.580 --> 00:07:23.740 so yeah i mean i guess i there are loads of there are loads of moff moffity things that we could 00:07:23.840 --> 00:07:29.040 chat about but i suppose the first thing that interests me about that about about the episode 00:07:29.190 --> 00:07:34.920 about having what i consider i suppose i should ask you whether you consider this to be a 00:07:35.510 --> 00:07:41.099 a decently written episode first well it's certainly the best this year it's not bad 00:07:41.340 --> 00:07:49.100 it's not bad i i enjoyed it more than i did the previous two um i don't want to i hate to use this 00:07:49.220 --> 00:07:55.460 term but i think it's um kicking around something that you said and i i think it's mostly true 00:07:56.080 --> 00:08:05.819 moffett puts together much more logical stories his pieces are are better intertwined um there 00:08:05.840 --> 00:08:07.860 There are a couple of groaners. 00:08:08.540 --> 00:08:10.300 Yeah, there's a couple of groaners in here, 00:08:11.700 --> 00:08:13.760 but the pieces are put together 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:15.240 and they become integral to the story 00:08:15.290 --> 00:08:18.600 just so that the satire works better. 00:08:19.420 --> 00:08:21.080 So whatever he writes, 00:08:21.770 --> 00:08:25.680 whether he writes drama or pathos or satire 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:26.640 or whatever it is, 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:28.100 because he writes farce, 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.440 he can do intricate plotting. 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:32.820 And as you say, 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:35.780 That means the piece is fit and nothing's wasted. 00:08:36.520 --> 00:08:36.740 Yes. 00:08:37.310 --> 00:08:39.979 So that, I simply appreciate that. 00:08:40.479 --> 00:08:42.060 It doesn't matter what writer does that. 00:08:42.090 --> 00:08:43.340 I appreciate that. 00:08:43.539 --> 00:08:49.020 That is what appeals to me in a story. 00:08:49.370 --> 00:08:56.360 And I know, and this is not a bag on RTD moment, 00:08:56.940 --> 00:09:02.300 but I have finally gotten around to working on reading a writer's tale. 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:05.880 And it is about his writing process. 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:12.780 And now that it's laid bare, I totally get why his stories don't make sense. 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:15.380 He visualizes a thing. 00:09:16.140 --> 00:09:25.420 Like one example is, okay, so the doctor, and I think Penny is the name of the companion he's talking about at the time, arrive on a planet. 00:09:25.940 --> 00:09:28.240 And there's this smoke-filled corridor. 00:09:28.590 --> 00:09:32.240 And a big Amazon comes out with a machine gun and says, hello, dad. 00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:41.880 and then that's where these things come from it's the scene he sees he visualizes a scene 00:09:42.540 --> 00:09:48.900 and then he puts stuff around it to make it happen which i guess can make for some great scenes 00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:54.480 but which is what drama is built of i mean it it but then he's stringing it together with 00:09:54.980 --> 00:10:01.059 masking tape you know from around it and yeah it doesn't make sense but equally you get you get 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:08.740 writers who can construct logical plots who can maybe even write plausible characters but whose 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:16.560 scenes are just tedious yeah i i i just wanted i mean i was i was thinking about the girl who waited 00:10:17.300 --> 00:10:24.320 um after watching this episode and thinking about that the way in which moffat writes 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:27.120 he just sticks a horse in there. 00:10:27.620 --> 00:10:30.140 I don't think he's a writer 00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:34.200 who doesn't kind of think about the scenes. 00:10:34.760 --> 00:10:36.740 I think in interviews, 00:10:36.900 --> 00:10:39.700 I've heard him talk about those things coming to him 00:10:39.700 --> 00:10:41.740 and then he does work around them. 00:10:42.340 --> 00:10:43.760 Maybe that's not his primary approach. 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.980 Maybe that is a difference between him and RTD. 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:48.420 But I remember him talking about that horse 00:10:48.520 --> 00:10:50.560 and saying, you know, that horse is there 00:10:51.020 --> 00:10:52.399 because it's Saturday night 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:54.640 and people are ready to go off to the pub 00:10:54.800 --> 00:10:56.360 and I want them to carry on watching the show 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:58.720 and they're going to go, why is there a horse? 00:10:59.740 --> 00:11:04.260 And I feel like that's a little exceptional. 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:08.280 So, I mean, that's probably the biggest 00:11:08.550 --> 00:11:10.980 of the ones that Moffat did is a horse. 00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:15.900 It's quite grand compared to a lot of the other. 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:17.320 I don't know. 00:11:17.400 --> 00:11:19.480 I'd be interested about the, you know, 00:11:20.220 --> 00:11:26.080 Did the Doctor Dancers get built around the image of a kid in a gas mask? 00:11:26.680 --> 00:11:28.020 I don't know. I don't know. 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.460 I hope Moffat writes his own writer's tale. 00:11:32.060 --> 00:11:37.760 Although I have to admit, despite having both editions of RTD's The Writer's Tale, 00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:39.640 I haven't actually got around to reading them yet. 00:11:40.060 --> 00:11:44.400 I had the final edition since it came out. 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:48.680 The last final edition. I'm assuming there will be a new final edition after this. 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:51.860 Yeah, the previous final edition where he, I don't know. 00:11:52.040 --> 00:11:54.100 I mean, the way it works, I don't know. 00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:55.560 Maybe he'll just do a separate book. 00:11:56.060 --> 00:11:59.820 So, you know, it's instead of updating this one. 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.460 But I just hadn't gotten around to reading it. 00:12:02.540 --> 00:12:06.940 But now that it's, now that we're back to having RTD actively involved in Doctor Who, 00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:13.280 it felt like it was important for me to try to figure what the hell that man's thinking. 00:12:14.020 --> 00:12:15.520 I mean, for those first two episodes. 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:27.280 Well, there have been episodes that he has written in the past where I have felt like there were very rough edges. 00:12:28.420 --> 00:12:30.820 And to put, you know, to kind of put it kindly. 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:34.900 And I've heard him talk a lot about his writing process. 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:37.360 I mean, I've heard him talk. He's a great talker. 00:12:37.390 --> 00:12:39.220 I actually love listening to him, sure. 00:12:39.880 --> 00:12:50.160 But one of the things he mentioned, which I think is kind of possibly relevant, is that he has a real fear of overwriting. 00:12:50.880 --> 00:12:58.140 that the kind of immediacy or urgency or freshness of those ideas, 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.700 which I guess come from those scenes you're describing, 00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:07.680 will somehow be bludgeoned to death by doing too many rewrites 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.680 and trying to kind of go over everything and fit everything together. 00:13:11.880 --> 00:13:13.740 And who knows? He may be right, 00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:17.640 because no one else can write an RTD story except himself, 00:13:17.800 --> 00:13:18.700 and he's probably tried. 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:29.700 And if he can't make that work, he can't make that work. But I think Moffat and maybe he doesn't have the well, he certainly I mean, he certainly can't write an RTD story. 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:40.920 But what he does seem to be able to do is to get to a point where he rewrites enough to really kind of it. 00:13:41.060 --> 00:13:48.240 Yeah, I guess the analogy in my mind is a joiner or someone, you know, a real kind of... 00:13:48.560 --> 00:13:49.200 Craftsman. 00:13:49.940 --> 00:14:02.940 Craftsman, yeah, who produces something that is quite intricate and well-finished and looks lovely, but also is kind of solid and doesn't fall apart when you touch it. 00:14:04.380 --> 00:14:06.240 And yeah, it's different. It's different. 00:14:07.020 --> 00:14:17.540 And I think in RTD, you could see as possibly more of an artist in terms of producing something that is flash, but maybe you could knock apart. 00:14:18.270 --> 00:14:27.820 I do believe that there is a quote in the book where he tells the chronicler that his scripts basically come out full form when he writes them. 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:30.880 He puts them on paper and that's pretty much it. 00:14:31.420 --> 00:14:32.160 So that's his choice. 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:35.440 Yeah, it sounds like he's not rewrites, yeah. 00:14:36.160 --> 00:14:44.180 And I think we've said probably a million times that an RTD script could use a second pair of eyes. 00:14:44.900 --> 00:14:48.900 I would love to see an RTD script that had been script edited by Moffat. 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:50.820 Or by anyone else. 00:14:50.920 --> 00:14:55.860 I mean, I think there's a bit of a tragedy that we, because he was the one who brought the show back, 00:14:56.020 --> 00:15:00.260 we never got him writing for the show for someone else. 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:01.200 Yeah. 00:15:01.780 --> 00:15:18.100 I mean, obviously, he did submit Mind of the Hodiak for Colin Baker's Doctor, but it only got produced on audio a year or two ago, which isn't quite the same. 00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:22.420 And I seriously doubt Big Finish made a lot of modifications to that. 00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:30.300 Well, I think they probably did, because I think, actually, it's a Scott Hancock script based on an RTV treatment. 00:15:30.520 --> 00:15:51.280 Okay. And likewise, Damaged Goods, which is, you know, really, well, that's well worth listening to, really interesting story. But it's gone through processes of having, you know, RTD wrote that one as a novel. And then it was adapted by, I think, Jonathan Morris. And so it's been, you know, dramatic. 00:15:51.380 --> 00:16:01.860 And I think in some ways, I haven't actually listened to mine at Hodiak, but Damaged Goods shows a kind of polish that probably isn't typical of an RTD script. 00:16:02.010 --> 00:16:11.640 But like you say, it would be really interesting were he to write for another showrunner on television. 00:16:12.560 --> 00:16:15.980 And one that was willing to script edit him. 00:16:16.340 --> 00:16:27.400 You know, I have a theory about novel writers that take Stephen King, for example, who is undeniably can write stuff that people want to read. 00:16:27.800 --> 00:16:32.260 And I've read some of it and enjoyed it, so I'm not I'm not banging on him that way. 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.740 But just look at the page count on his books. 00:16:37.540 --> 00:16:47.780 The editors at the publishing house are not putting any restrictions on him as he moves up the fame ladder. 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.920 It happens to almost everybody at J.K. Rowling. 00:16:51.220 --> 00:16:52.580 Stories do the same thing. 00:16:53.060 --> 00:16:57.340 They just, it's like, you're working in partnership with the editor when you start. 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:01.080 And by the end of it, you are the God who can do no wrong. 00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:03.980 And they're like, yeah, they know best. 00:17:04.120 --> 00:17:06.040 Just let them, let's do the minor edits. 00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:13.740 they misspell you know this word but other than that go i i think that you know at this point rtd 00:17:14.260 --> 00:17:21.420 would be treated that way probably or very near that way but anyway we should return to this story 00:17:22.060 --> 00:17:27.339 well yes because i mean i want to talk about moffat but before talking about moffat i guess 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:35.079 the the other thing that i found this episode enabled me to kind of evaluate it because i 00:17:35.100 --> 00:17:40.400 I thought it was a well-written, you know, not the best Moffat episode ever, 00:17:40.510 --> 00:17:43.720 but definitely good, solid Moffat fare. 00:17:44.390 --> 00:17:52.680 And so I could separate out the performances of Shuti Ghatwa and Millie Gibson, 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.140 who I've been a little bit critical of in the last couple of episodes, 00:17:57.159 --> 00:18:02.480 from the way that they were being, the way their characters were being written, I guess. 00:18:02.760 --> 00:18:05.180 And there's obviously the direction in there. 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:12.900 And I'm not sure I thought this was the best directed episode ever, but it's certainly not at all bad. 00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:22.520 My kind of takeaway from this, the headline is that Millie Gibson's stock has shot back up with me. 00:18:22.520 --> 00:18:24.380 I thought she was really good in this. 00:18:25.120 --> 00:18:28.520 And so I think there is mileage there. 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:34.260 I'm not sure that, I'm not sure that Shooty Gatwin made the most of the material. 00:18:35.020 --> 00:18:37.680 Like, I thought, I'm disappointed in it. 00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:44.540 And maybe he will take a bit longer to get into the character, just like Peter Capaldi did, for example. 00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:50.940 But I, I thought other actors who've played the Doctor could have done more, is it, than he did. 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:53.720 I'm going to, I'm going to read you a couple quotes then. 00:18:54.080 --> 00:19:01.340 From my son who came back to watch this one after last week, not being willing to watch the Devil's Chord. 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:02.960 But he did watch this. 00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:04.040 My wife did not. 00:19:05.180 --> 00:19:06.060 She was busy elsewhere. 00:19:06.620 --> 00:19:14.160 So his first, most salient point, quote, apart from the doctor, I thought it was pretty good. 00:19:15.660 --> 00:19:18.020 He said it didn't seem like it was 45 minutes. 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:20.500 Actually, he said it didn't seem like it was an hour. 00:19:20.550 --> 00:19:21.940 And I'm like, I don't think it was an hour. 00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:27.440 it's like okay it didn't seem like 45 minutes okay sorry however many minutes of that it didn't 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:35.060 it's an oppressive amount of stuff that happened and didn't feel forced and then i'm not very fond 00:19:35.190 --> 00:19:42.080 of the new doctor he seems like he's worse at being the doctor than any of the others i don't 00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:49.340 know about any yeah i mean come on shoddy whittaker was worse maybe no i don't know he's worse than 00:19:52.340 --> 00:19:53.700 they're down at the meeting 00:19:55.180 --> 00:19:57.120 he's shooting up for me though 00:19:58.760 --> 00:20:02.640 yeah he is I don't know if I'm ready to say he's worse than any of the others 00:20:03.040 --> 00:20:06.140 but he's at the lower end at the minute with me 00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:10.100 I want to point out characterization it's interesting 00:20:10.760 --> 00:20:14.959 Moffat gets to do his thing and right here 00:20:15.580 --> 00:20:22.840 oh it's this episode where ruby finally takes in the awe of being somewhere amazing i mean yeah 00:20:22.930 --> 00:20:29.920 okay fine the planets are the brings and stuff would probably be an incredibly staggering moment 00:20:30.080 --> 00:20:35.700 and i get the bit that ruby is like stunned into like oh my gosh i've seen this never seen this 00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:42.500 thing before we should have gotten that with a damn jurassic scene right she had no soul in that 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:48.700 episode in this episode she comes off much better because of that yeah yeah yeah no yeah 100 100 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:56.200 but even if even if that episode even if the jurassic uh excursion had been written with a 00:20:56.230 --> 00:21:02.220 little bit more wonder in it i still think being being on another planet i what's great about it 00:21:02.320 --> 00:21:08.239 what's so moffatty about it for me is the multiple layers that are going on there right if we'd seen 00:21:08.520 --> 00:21:13.320 the Jurassic excursion written as we'd hoped you know the way RTD would have written it would have 00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:22.300 been straight up you know just being awestruck but but Moffat is combining the being awestruck 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:29.400 with the being in the middle of rescuing the doctor and the doctor being in the middle of 00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:35.900 standing on a landmine, but also managing to be conscious, 00:21:36.620 --> 00:21:39.440 or at least after a moment of thinking about it, 00:21:39.500 --> 00:21:42.880 managing to be conscious of what's going on for Ruby 00:21:43.100 --> 00:21:47.560 and kind of sympathising with what should be a wonderful moment for her, 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:49.640 even in a kind of very terrible moment for him. 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:52.160 You know, it's so complex. 00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:56.360 To me, that is one of the reasons why he is so good, 00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.320 Because it's just, there's so much going on. 00:21:59.800 --> 00:22:01.800 It's so relatable, but it's also so unexpected. 00:22:02.580 --> 00:22:02.780 Yeah. 00:22:03.410 --> 00:22:06.780 That is a much better scene for your first step out of the TARDIS. 00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:11.420 And I realize, you know, it's your first alien world that's a step up. 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:16.200 But it's still, it just works much better. 00:22:17.060 --> 00:22:17.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:22:17.570 --> 00:22:23.720 But also I think it's like 61 years of companions stepping out for their first look as a different planet. 00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:33.400 And Moffat still managing to make it feel fresh and do something with it that really we've never seen anything like that before. 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:46.340 So I really appreciate it. And it wasn't a big moment in the episode, but, you know, it was it was something that I don't think should have been allowed to pass and also something that was very original. 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:53.760 we ever get to the point where the doctor is now mocking uh the companions seeing their first alien 00:22:54.020 --> 00:22:58.560 world in the same way that he does when they step in and go hey it's bigger on the inside than the 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:06.880 outside because you know that is the same kind of wonder moment and should be the same kind of 00:23:07.010 --> 00:23:13.899 wonder moment well it should i don't think he does always mock not always no some writers write it 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:20.120 like that and i i think there are others who trying to think but there have been some quite good 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:27.640 surprising surprising examples but yeah it's that's not always how it gets written and sometimes 00:23:28.580 --> 00:23:35.340 those scenes are still they they impress yeah uh while we're talking about rudy ruby something 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:44.140 occurred to me in this episode uh we have that whole she's she's deadish thing and then the snow 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:54.460 begins right and stuff are we missing something really incredibly obvious here that ruby was born 00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:03.419 on christmas day was there somebody else who was supposedly allegedly born on christmas day 00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:12.140 that was a big deal somewhere along the line i i can't remember his name but those anglicans make 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:21.620 a big deal out of him i think if that if that were the case you know and and when they die or 00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:26.500 even temporarily died it snows why doesn't it snow at easter 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:34.800 and then came back to life i don't know it just it's like is it significant that ruby was born 00:24:34.810 --> 00:24:42.200 on christmas day i'm guessing no it didn't have to be 18 years to her to the day for the christmas 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:49.300 episode to be happening it just just happens to be but it is kind of yeah also the ambulance 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:58.000 identifies her by name and age which moffat's done that before um the beast below with amy 00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:04.720 not exactly sure how that's supposed to happen but how did the ambulance identify her dna would 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:09.440 that include her name well obviously they have incredibly comprehensive medical records going 00:25:09.990 --> 00:25:17.900 back 3,082 years or more yes it's possible we know there's something weird about her dna i don't know 00:25:17.760 --> 00:25:22.060 how they would have her dna in order to identify her so thinking about it but then it could i don't 00:25:22.060 --> 00:25:27.800 know facial recognition i don't know oh well she put her dna in the database so that divina could 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:34.600 try to track down her family so she was in a she did she was in a 21 and me breach or something and 00:25:34.840 --> 00:25:39.859 so now the there you go there you go no never a plot hole in an rtd arc 00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:52.400 no none whatsoever um it's just i am just odd but it does it does put us um it does give us the day 00:25:52.800 --> 00:25:59.380 which as i mentioned earlier is late 51st century want to know another story that was written in the 00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:06.459 50 that was in the 51st century the talents of wang chiang time of angels and flesh and stone 00:26:07.060 --> 00:26:16.560 oh okay so why didn't they know he was the doctor when he identified himself who the anglican marines 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:23.660 he's the doctor they're the same marines yeah it's the same time it's the same it's and it's 00:26:23.860 --> 00:26:30.779 later than the the byzantine byzantium or probably later than the byzantium we the byzantium is the 00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:38.400 51st century and this is 5088 there's not much 51st century left in this story and i would really 00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:48.420 really love to know more about this anglican military backstory that moffat has built i i 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:54.040 don't i i think that i think this is unfinished business i think he's deliberately maybe this is 00:26:54.120 --> 00:27:00.620 why he's set it at this time but he's he's deliberately brought back these anglican marines 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:04.200 because last time he had them, 00:27:04.860 --> 00:27:08.060 I think we said we want to know about the backstory of them. 00:27:08.260 --> 00:27:17.620 There must be some reason and expected it to form part of the silence will fall stuff, etc, etc. 00:27:18.340 --> 00:27:21.500 But I don't think there was anything to it. 00:27:21.760 --> 00:27:28.360 And I think what he's trying to say in this story is he simply had Anglican Marines 00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:31.280 because it's part of his... 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.100 All right, let's not beat about the bush here. 00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:36.660 One of the things that... 00:27:36.660 --> 00:27:39.080 Obviously, part of the target of this story 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.380 is the arms manufacturers, the arms industry. 00:27:45.100 --> 00:27:45.380 Mm-hmm. 00:27:46.020 --> 00:27:48.280 But another big thing in it is the church. 00:27:48.820 --> 00:27:51.360 He's having a pop-up face in a big way. 00:27:51.600 --> 00:27:54.320 I mean, the magic word that keeps you 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:56.480 from ever having to think for yourself, 00:27:57.380 --> 00:28:00.200 This is pretty full on. 00:28:00.740 --> 00:28:06.560 And he has Ruby ask, since when was the church an army? 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.740 And he basically says, since forever. 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:20.540 You know, you're living in a blip, a kind of temporal anomaly where it wasn't obvious to you that this is the case. 00:28:20.740 --> 00:28:29.780 But these things that, you know, that religion and the wielding of military power go hand in hand. 00:28:29.780 --> 00:28:38.920 And this is his thesis. And I think this I think this episode, I think I think he may have felt he was too subtle before because people thought, you know, 00:28:39.060 --> 00:28:46.700 putting those two things together is some sort of clever juxtaposition of distinct elements that's 00:28:47.060 --> 00:28:52.960 supposed to suggest some kind of elaborate backstory or plot twist and here he's he's saying 00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:58.820 no it's not they're not distinct elements that it's not a clever juxtaposition it's actually just 00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:05.680 showing the true church it's still i still think you know this particular incarnation or 00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:11.900 thing. I'm not saying that he has a grandmaster plan for it. That is not what I was getting at, 00:29:11.910 --> 00:29:16.420 and I don't recall thinking he had a grandmaster plan for it back at Flesh and Stone, but maybe. 00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:24.300 But I do think that in his mind, he has built up some sort of Earth timeline, and one of them is 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:33.440 roughly the 51st century, where it's heavily military Anglican fighting. And I find that 00:29:33.460 --> 00:29:39.400 would be an interesting area to explore not that it necessarily needs to go anywhere from this point 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.280 just i think there's some fertile ground obviously i think there's some fertile ground for a whole 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.020 lot more bashing of religion there and i'm always up for that so i mean so i'm always there for that 00:29:52.300 --> 00:29:59.900 but you know but one thing that i i so yes he's very very critical of faith and then we have that 00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:06.180 last scene that goes on forever and ever and ever you know just because i wear like it doesn't mean 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:12.540 i don't need it yeah yeah something to that effect i was like but does he mean he but is 00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:19.680 is faith in your companion faith in the behavior of someone you know faith in the fact that if i 00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:26.880 drop a hammer on a planet with gravity that it's gonna fall all of those things people use the 00:30:26.860 --> 00:30:31.700 english word faith for i have i have faith this will happen but you don't really need but i 00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:37.120 you really need faith to know that a thing's going to fall and yet it is still presented that way 00:30:38.080 --> 00:30:43.680 and i think he's thinking i don't think that is f is i don't think it is either but that is the 00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:48.460 way english no no no no no no no no i don't i don't i don't i think let's draw a distinction 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:56.820 i don't think dropping 00:30:56.900 --> 00:31:04.560 faith actually implies something that goes beyond evidence like the the whole douglas adams 00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:12.300 thing in you know the ulan kalufit passage about um i refuse to prove i exist says god 00:31:12.940 --> 00:31:18.200 because proof denies faith without because proof denies faith and without faith i am nothing 00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:26.380 so d and yeah disappears yes yeah what about the babel fish that's that's a dead giveaway isn't it 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:34.820 it proves that you exist and therefore you don't qed yeah it's but he certainly you would you would 00:31:34.860 --> 00:31:40.340 argue i have faith that my companion will behave in a way that i want he wants to but he wants to 00:31:40.460 --> 00:31:47.260 believe something that goes beyond the evidence and that is still faith and i think what he's 00:31:47.520 --> 00:31:54.080 saying is and i it's interesting whether the doctor has always kind of had this position because i 00:31:54.560 --> 00:31:59.300 I think other people have written him as much more respectful of faith. 00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:03.120 And Moffat's line kind of maybe covers that. 00:32:03.820 --> 00:32:17.920 But, well, I think even RTD has written kind of very quasi-religious stories, despite his atheism, because he's kind of got a fascination with faith that is much more sympathetic. 00:32:18.600 --> 00:32:42.120 But I think that the kind of position that Moffat is giving the doctor, at least in this story, is a kind of preference. He's preferencing logic and evidence and things that you can actually verify over things that require you to take the leap of faith. 00:32:42.600 --> 00:32:48.800 And yet this line is an acknowledgement that sometimes we do all take a leap of faith. 00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:53.960 We need to take a leap of faith because, you know, we can't we can't live without doing that. 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.140 Doesn't necessarily mean religious faith. 00:32:56.760 --> 00:32:58.140 The other word that is gamble. 00:32:59.300 --> 00:33:02.520 You're taking a gamble is what that is. 00:33:03.280 --> 00:33:06.460 Yeah, I mean, and I guess that's that's fair enough. 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:14.220 And it's not that he's not having a go at religious faith through the episode, because obviously all of the kind of thoughts and prayer stuff is all pretty on the nose. 00:33:14.940 --> 00:33:21.560 Yeah, yeah. He's going after two faiths with capital Fs. Faith, religion, and faith, capitalism. 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.940 And that certainly is some people's faith. We know that. 00:33:26.760 --> 00:33:33.160 Let's see. I just want to point out what we're talking about, Faith, that the ambulance won't treat non-believers. 00:33:34.040 --> 00:33:35.900 That's not very Christian, is it? 00:33:36.540 --> 00:33:52.220 I'm told. I'm told. Let's see. I, you know, I earlier I said that Moffat puts together a logic, a logical story. He likes to put his pieces together in a logical, interlocking fashion. 00:33:52.740 --> 00:34:01.180 However, in a way that hurt me to say that because this bomb makes no sense, not even in the way he describes it. 00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:10.600 I mean, yeah, I love, I love the idea that you put lights on the bomb to make it look sexy on the showroom floor. 00:34:11.220 --> 00:34:16.679 That is so absolutely believable that I, you know, I love it. 00:34:17.300 --> 00:34:21.179 However, stuff like that usually comes with an off switch. 00:34:21.919 --> 00:34:25.200 It's in demo mode. It's in not demo mode. 00:34:25.740 --> 00:34:27.840 So why not have them turned off on the battlefield? 00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:36.820 Sexy lights notwithstanding, you know, they are displaying meaningful data because of the way the algorithm is. 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:40.360 It's a, you know, it's a bar chart, basically. 00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:51.460 And it's giving some information to people who would be standing around the landmine, not the person standing on the landmine. 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.100 So who is that for? Who is that data? 00:34:56.500 --> 00:34:58.880 You know, whose user interface is that? 00:34:59.560 --> 00:35:04.600 And, okay, so all that, I love the idea that it sells on the thing. 00:35:04.700 --> 00:35:06.700 It's probably inspired by gamer keyboards. 00:35:07.600 --> 00:35:09.680 Matt Moffat's probably having a pop at gamer. 00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:13.580 His kids probably wanted keyboards to do all the flashy stuff. 00:35:13.870 --> 00:35:15.240 And he's like, this is just ridiculous. 00:35:15.620 --> 00:35:17.260 I'm going to write that in a story, put it on a bomb. 00:35:17.500 --> 00:35:18.660 I can totally see that. 00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:20.700 But here's my question. 00:35:21.080 --> 00:35:22.280 The AI bomb logic. 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.280 It doesn't automatically detonate when triggered. 00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:28.540 It determines if the target is legit first. 00:35:29.420 --> 00:35:31.320 What is a legit target? 00:35:33.080 --> 00:35:37.820 Because the doctor stands on a landmine and it does not go off. 00:35:38.300 --> 00:35:41.980 taking his foot off the landmine would cause it to go off, I think. 00:35:42.700 --> 00:35:47.260 Except that it might not, because the way that landmine works, 00:35:47.450 --> 00:35:49.620 it causes your body to be the explosive. 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.660 So if you had taken your foot off faster than it could make you an explosive, 00:35:54.520 --> 00:35:57.860 would you not blow up? I don't know. 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:03.900 But what is it that the doctor is doing that makes him not confuse the landmine? 00:36:05.300 --> 00:36:12.960 He's not moving, but he's obviously got some vital signs, but not enough to make it go off. 00:36:13.460 --> 00:36:14.920 I don't understand that. 00:36:15.540 --> 00:36:21.320 And if you work on the argument that it's trying to prevent wasted explosions, like let's say a rock falls on it. 00:36:21.940 --> 00:36:22.060 Okay. 00:36:22.820 --> 00:36:24.300 Rock tumbles down, lands on the landmine. 00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:25.500 It goes, oh, there's nothing there. 00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:27.700 I don't need to blow up. 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:28.420 Okay. 00:36:29.160 --> 00:36:29.680 Kind of okay. 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:39.120 then why put a timer on it that says after 20 minutes or whatever the length of time was or 40 minutes, if it can't decide, then blow up anyway? 00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:47.680 I'm not going to disagree. I think there are problems with the logic behind what's going on here. 00:36:48.350 --> 00:36:52.420 Also, I don't care, but never mind. You do. 00:36:52.660 --> 00:37:03.460 So let me have a stab at explaining why I think, even though it doesn't ultimately make sense, why I think some of those things are as they are. 00:37:04.060 --> 00:37:10.980 With the caveat, I am in no way a military or explosives expert. 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:12.080 Okay. 00:37:12.460 --> 00:37:18.300 I think that conventional landmines work by when you step off them, they blow up. 00:37:18.620 --> 00:37:27.020 That is true because they launch something in the air that detonates so that it kills at a further range, like a fragmentation grade. 00:37:27.390 --> 00:37:30.240 If it blows up on the ground, it doesn't do as much damage. 00:37:30.870 --> 00:37:34.400 If it blows up two or three feet in the air, it hurts more people. 00:37:35.060 --> 00:37:35.340 Okay. 00:37:35.620 --> 00:37:38.660 Well, obviously, I mean, that fits. 00:37:38.720 --> 00:37:44.860 that fits and i i mean i as i understand that even less sophisticated land mines will have 00:37:45.040 --> 00:37:50.320 some mechanism whereby you push treading on it pushes the pin in but it's the push it's the pin 00:37:50.520 --> 00:37:57.780 coming out yes that that uh causes the the thing to detonate and so i think it's possibly based on 00:37:57.830 --> 00:38:02.500 that kind of tradition all of the other kind of stuff is obviously just there to serve the story 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:13.800 and the notion that it fails safe in quotes by blowing up on a timer it is completely ludicrous 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:21.980 I mean even it that took even me out of the story because yeah the point is yes you don't want it 00:38:21.980 --> 00:38:28.200 to be blow up when a rock lands on it or a rabbit or a deer treads on it or whatever it may be you 00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:35.740 want it to damage your military opponent so you want to check before it blows up that there is 00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:41.720 actually a military and that's safe that's the safe thing you don't want to just blowing up 00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:47.820 without being absolutely 100 sure that when it blows up it is going to do some damage to 00:38:48.300 --> 00:38:54.740 something that matters in terms of your military objective yes yes i i'm i know that that last 00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:59.680 timer is there because it adds dramatic tension to the last few minutes of the show yes the 00:38:59.780 --> 00:39:05.460 ticking bomb has to be a ticking bomb but it doesn't the reason i bring it up is yes it 00:39:06.160 --> 00:39:11.060 particularly that last bit took me out of it from it i was like come on it's because i was praising 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:17.360 moffatts for logically putting the pieces together and this is one he didn't do this is like this one 00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:23.540 was kind of a hand wave this this was a little this was a little bit of rtd in there by my i'm 00:39:23.560 --> 00:39:27.500 I'm not sure that's kind of completely correct. 00:39:27.520 --> 00:39:32.800 I think any piece of writing, you can pick a hole in some aspect of it. 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:40.540 And one of the things that I like about Moffat in general is that he maybe, and this is my preferences, 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:52.060 but that he tends to weight what he sees as being the important aspects of the story and focuses on getting those right. 00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:55.620 Those are the aspects of the story that I think need to be right. 00:39:56.180 --> 00:40:04.300 And there are always going to be little things that, you know, there's a plot hole here or there's a, you know, for the sake of keeping the pace up, there's something skipped over there. 00:40:04.940 --> 00:40:10.220 But if those things are relatively unimportant, it's not going to bother me. 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:24.620 And I would consider this one to be relatively unimportant because I'm kind of bought into the central idea, which is, you know, that which I still think is probably inspired by No Man's Land, although there's not much else in the story that kind of connects with that. 00:40:25.160 --> 00:40:35.220 You know, but that but that's that's the central idea that the doctor is he has he has to be unable to move and they have to resolve that situation. 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:59.240 So let me ask you this question. I don't know if you saw it, but there was a YouTube piece that the Doctor Who channel put out. There was Stephen Moffat explaining before the story what his idea was. He says, I've had the idea for a story where you take the doctor and you take away his one key asset. And what would he do then? 00:41:00.660 --> 00:41:04.980 he really made a big thing about you you take the doctor you take away the the most important 00:41:04.980 --> 00:41:10.500 thing he's got and then like and i didn't see that till after i watched the episode and i sat 00:41:10.580 --> 00:41:16.460 there for a very long time going sorry what what was the doctor's asset that he took away i'm not 00:41:16.560 --> 00:41:22.180 sure i i'm not sure i know what it was his animation presumably i would have thought his 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:28.660 assets his brain so i mean i don't know the companion knocks out the companion halfway 00:41:28.680 --> 00:41:33.780 way through maybe i i don't know i would have thought i would i mean i i need to watch the 00:41:33.810 --> 00:41:39.160 clip i haven't seen it but i would have from what you've described i was taught the the obvious thing 00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:45.640 is the doctor is an incredibly you know dynamic and i'll just watch the way he runs through the 00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:53.800 battlefield that is a dynamic running style um yeah exactly and so if if you if you force him 00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:56.880 to be unable to move. 00:41:57.720 --> 00:41:59.580 I think, I mean, I think, you know, 00:41:59.580 --> 00:42:02.640 I would connect that with other particular stories 00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:03.980 that I think are incredibly effective, 00:42:04.140 --> 00:42:06.560 like Midnight, for example, where... 00:42:06.580 --> 00:42:07.360 There are a lot of comparisons 00:42:07.570 --> 00:42:08.880 between this one and Midnight, yeah. 00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:10.040 Yeah, yeah. 00:42:10.170 --> 00:42:13.140 Well, I mean, it's the bottle episode thing, 00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:17.220 but yeah, also the fact that you're kind of stripping away 00:42:18.580 --> 00:42:21.540 that it's almost an omnipotence 00:42:22.180 --> 00:42:28.540 that the doctor can sometimes seem to have and you're really sort of put you're ramping up the 00:42:28.700 --> 00:42:37.260 jeopardy by making it clear that he can't fix this he can't fix this you know he's he's relying on 00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:43.020 other people to help him now i'll i'll take a there's a the the doctor who unleashed that goes 00:42:43.020 --> 00:42:48.900 with this episode which i did watch uh there is a sequence where art is fascinating you should watch 00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:56.280 rgd and and uh moffett are discussing what it takes to write for the doctor and one of the 00:42:56.460 --> 00:43:02.660 things that they both absolutely agree on is that the the hard part about writing a doctor who script 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:09.880 is um shutting the doctor up um he's he's the biggest smartest brain in the entire universe 00:43:10.460 --> 00:43:16.300 and he just you know if he if he just walked in and solved everything so they have the part of 00:43:16.100 --> 00:43:22.940 their hard part is to take that and knock him down a peg in each story so that they can have 00:43:23.270 --> 00:43:29.760 something interesting happen and that's solely on rtd's head because the doctor was not the most 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:36.840 omnipotent intelligent being in the entire universe before he took over he was much more 00:43:37.140 --> 00:43:44.120 flawed and much more vulnerable prior to eccleston's era yes i think that's 00:43:45.700 --> 00:43:53.720 well okay i i can see you're open to persuasion on this i i think that's probably not wrong in 00:43:53.910 --> 00:44:02.500 terms of the degree to which he is the biggest brain the smartest the most involverable there is 00:44:03.040 --> 00:44:10.539 and possibly not so much eccleston as actually tenant but i think if you look back to some of 00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:18.300 the Tom Baker stuff I think it had I think it had happened then I think the the problem was he was 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:26.840 so kind of mercurial and fast-witted that there was a there was a kind of expectation being built 00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:33.660 up around the way a Doctor Who story worked was that you know he would he would outwit everyone 00:44:33.700 --> 00:44:40.240 else in the room and everything would resolve itself as a result of him doing something brilliant 00:44:41.140 --> 00:44:45.440 famously peter davison i think that the peter davison thing was a reaction to that 00:44:45.910 --> 00:44:52.120 so yeah it's a question of degree i think i think the show has had that problem in the past 00:44:52.640 --> 00:44:56.880 and they have had to address it in the past but i think that you're right which is probably 00:44:57.620 --> 00:45:07.340 well in as much as it was never worse than yeah with with David Tennant I suspect maybe maybe this 00:45:07.540 --> 00:45:15.140 is why he's taken this swing on fantasy because you you take the biggest smartest mortal and put 00:45:15.140 --> 00:45:23.700 him in the playroom with the gods and now you're not yes you even up the score which you know I 00:45:23.620 --> 00:45:31.400 think i think is is dangerous and this is this is this is but perhaps well it is escalation because 00:45:31.520 --> 00:45:39.060 this is perhaps why we we go from like i i still remain of the view that on balance the time lords 00:45:39.220 --> 00:45:46.020 are a mistake like we shouldn't have had other time lords in the show but it gets to a point 00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:52.520 where you need to have the other time lords because the doctor by virtue of being this special alien 00:45:52.520 --> 00:45:58.540 is so much above and beyond the kind of human adversaries that he faces, 00:45:58.540 --> 00:46:00.540 or even any other lower races that he faces. 00:46:01.290 --> 00:46:03.420 And so you have to have things that are on his level 00:46:03.700 --> 00:46:08.600 to kind of restore that balance and regain that level of jeopardy. 00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:11.080 But I would have thought the better solution, 00:46:11.650 --> 00:46:14.840 rather than getting into an arms race like that, 00:46:14.990 --> 00:46:20.140 would be actually to roll back and do something like this episode does 00:46:20.160 --> 00:46:22.760 or Midnight does and disarm the doctor. 00:46:23.410 --> 00:46:24.300 De-escalation. 00:46:24.860 --> 00:46:25.100 Yeah. 00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:25.620 Yes. 00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:29.280 They take a big swing at capitalism this week. 00:46:31.259 --> 00:46:32.460 I guess. 00:46:34.900 --> 00:46:38.080 War being engineered for maximum profit by AI algorithms. 00:46:39.020 --> 00:46:41.380 That could be so many things. 00:46:42.060 --> 00:46:44.780 Not just war. 00:46:45.390 --> 00:46:45.540 Right? 00:46:45.570 --> 00:46:47.780 I mean, you could argue that that's social media. 00:46:48.080 --> 00:46:58.800 You could argue that it's all being done to just fuel the machine, to keep the people churning and doing whatever it is that makes you the money. 00:47:00.359 --> 00:47:02.620 So I like that pop. 00:47:02.930 --> 00:47:08.240 I certainly enjoy a good pop at capitalism almost as much as I enjoy a good pop at religion. 00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:12.900 So two and one is definitely a twofer in this episode. 00:47:13.740 --> 00:47:23.820 I also thought, now I don't know if they had this in the UK, because I sometimes kind of get my news crossed between one place or another. 00:47:24.540 --> 00:47:40.880 Certainly one of the things that people of a certain bent fire up their conspiracy are the death panels that people are going to be establishing to decide who lives and dies in the medical care system. 00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:41.900 I know they had that here. 00:47:42.040 --> 00:47:51.540 I don't know if that's been one of those things that has been brought up over on your side of the pond, but certainly the ambulances fit that to a T. 00:47:52.240 --> 00:47:56.360 Like, oh, you're not worth, it's not worth curing you, so let's kill them. 00:47:56.780 --> 00:48:03.460 I think one of the arguments, one of the people that are against this are the people who are against socialized medicine. 00:48:04.020 --> 00:48:13.800 Because if you don't have the right to pay them a lot more money to save your life, and they're just doing it based on compassion and government taxes, they're going to kill you. 00:48:14.460 --> 00:48:18.740 You know, if you're not worthy of things. 00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:24.860 So I don't think that this is intended as an attack on socialized medicine. 00:48:25.640 --> 00:48:27.460 Oh, no, I don't think it's an attack on socialized medicine. 00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:32.480 I think it's an attack on people who are making, yeah, would let a computer do it. 00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:34.860 But it's satire there. 00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:35.460 It's definitely. 00:48:36.200 --> 00:48:37.220 Well, it is. 00:48:37.720 --> 00:48:44.320 But I mean, I don't think it's aimed at a target as specific as, say, National Institute for Clinical Excellence, 00:48:45.120 --> 00:48:57.360 because I don't think it's about particular mechanisms or processes for making decisions about what kinds of medicines and treatments should be available and, you know, where the cost benefits are. 00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:01.680 Because there are always, you know, this is the reality when you have the discussion. 00:49:01.900 --> 00:49:05.940 There are always choices, trade-offs to be made. 00:49:06.290 --> 00:49:12.600 There are very, very expensive cures for very, you know, difficult, problematic diseases or whatever. 00:49:13.210 --> 00:49:27.440 And should you spend that money where it can only benefit one person, let's say, without kind of getting into the ethics of all this, as opposed to spending on something where you might be able to save a lot more lives? 00:49:27.570 --> 00:49:29.880 And I don't think that that is his target. 00:49:30.120 --> 00:49:37.000 I think that he's essentially just going for, we shouldn't put a price on life. 00:49:37.120 --> 00:49:52.340 We should be willing to put a lot more money, even if there is no amount of money that you can put into medicine that would allow you to buy all of the drugs and all of the treatments that you might want to. 00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:58.280 We shouldn't try and skimp and save and cut back on that aspect. 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.000 I think that's the argument that he's making. 00:50:00.080 --> 00:50:00.500 I don't. 00:50:00.780 --> 00:50:01.700 Well, I mean, that's part and parcel of. 00:50:01.700 --> 00:50:03.020 I don't think it's particularly sophisticated. 00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:05.400 That's part and parcel of war. 00:50:05.700 --> 00:50:07.340 War is putting a price on lives. 00:50:08.160 --> 00:50:08.300 Yes. 00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:16.660 The whole thing is like, do we really think it's worth sending people to go die to kill other people to achieve our goals? 00:50:17.080 --> 00:50:22.260 And, you know, if we lose 10,000 people and they lose 50,000 people, what a deal. 00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:26.260 Yeah, it's I appreciate it. 00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:27.960 I appreciate what he's saying. 00:50:28.160 --> 00:50:35.460 Yeah, I didn't think he was going after specifically the targeting something like socialized medicine. 00:50:35.560 --> 00:50:39.120 I think he was targeting, don't put a price on life. 00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:44.080 But he is doing it in a way that would be instantly recognizable to the loonies. 00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:47.620 Looking at it, going, yeah, yeah, that's what they're going to do. 00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:54.780 So, you let them liberals get in there and give us medical care, then they're going to be off there killing us. 00:50:55.600 --> 00:50:58.600 Like, okay, you crazy nut job. 00:51:01.120 --> 00:51:04.360 That's why we're giving you medical care, so we can kill you off. 00:51:04.570 --> 00:51:05.360 Okay, yeah. 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:07.620 Let's see. 00:51:08.380 --> 00:51:10.520 Do we have, do I have anything else? 00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:13.400 The ambulances obviously were Susan Twist again. 00:51:14.180 --> 00:51:15.320 Okay, didn't spot that. 00:51:16.010 --> 00:51:19.480 Despite the fact that after last week I went and looked up Susan Twist 00:51:19.550 --> 00:51:23.520 and looked at all her previous performances and pictures of her. 00:51:24.120 --> 00:51:24.400 Oh, well. 00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:27.000 I did bother Snow in my defense. 00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:29.980 I did have my eyes out during the episode. 00:51:30.580 --> 00:51:33.360 We got the Ruby Snow TM. 00:51:35.260 --> 00:51:38.800 There's another episode that the Doctor did not save the day. 00:51:39.460 --> 00:51:43.980 That is not the first one this season. 00:51:45.340 --> 00:51:47.160 And Ruby wasn't very useful either. 00:51:47.860 --> 00:51:52.220 Well, to be fair, you know, she was quite dead for most of it. 00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:59.060 Well, I know I'm not I'm not saying that that shouldn't have an excuse, but that is down to the writer. 00:51:59.720 --> 00:52:07.420 So it was he's the one that killed her so that she would not be very useful, as in the doctor wasn't very useful. 00:52:07.980 --> 00:52:29.440 So that was, you know, again, there was a there was a interview with RTD back Eccleston era where he was talking about the fact that the doctor is basically a force of nature, a great moral force that sweeps in and forces, shakes things up and makes people do the right thing. 00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:34.940 And I'm kind of seeing that the idea that the doctor is not the solution to the problem. 00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:41.620 The doctor is the catalyst that that gets these things cranking. 00:52:41.980 --> 00:52:45.800 I'm not sure I like that, but sometimes. 00:52:46.700 --> 00:52:50.220 But I think the doctor probably should be solving some problems, too. 00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:59.380 Let's see. So Varada Setu, I hope I'm pronouncing that right, as Monday Flynn is also the new companion. 00:53:00.140 --> 00:53:04.980 oh don't know if it's the same character don't know if it's the same character they have not 00:53:05.240 --> 00:53:10.980 said and they're being very tight-lipped about it but that is the actor who will be portraying 00:53:11.060 --> 00:53:18.060 the the new companion next next season oh it would be strange if it wasn't the same character 00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:25.100 you know oh well like in torchwood martha no i don't think it's like that because i think 00:53:25.120 --> 00:53:27.440 the way in which these two have been 00:53:28.100 --> 00:53:29.500 written and filmed so close 00:53:29.720 --> 00:53:29.880 together. 00:53:31.580 --> 00:53:32.620 It'll be 00:53:33.900 --> 00:53:35.360 like her great 00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:36.960 great great grandmother 00:53:38.300 --> 00:53:39.340 Tuesday Flynn. 00:53:39.600 --> 00:53:40.580 That was 00:53:42.300 --> 00:53:43.240 a retcon. 00:53:44.160 --> 00:53:45.420 I think if they do anything 00:53:45.680 --> 00:53:47.520 like this it will have been planned in advance. 00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:49.280 I don't know. 00:53:49.750 --> 00:53:50.160 I don't know. 00:53:51.140 --> 00:53:53.160 This is more like Asylum of the Daleks. 00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:55.080 It could be. I don't know. 00:53:55.660 --> 00:54:02.160 I, there is an interview with her, uh, after the announcement and there had been interviews with her. 00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:06.480 There is sort of a, uh, there's sort of a sound like she was surprised. 00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:08.020 Not, not exactly. 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.380 Like it was two separate jobs interviews, but no, no details. 00:54:12.740 --> 00:54:14.200 It's just, there was just something about that. 00:54:14.300 --> 00:54:16.320 It's also in that doctor who unleashed for this week. 00:54:16.420 --> 00:54:17.500 So you can see it. 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:23.360 Um, and the only other thing I asked is I think we talked about this a while back. 00:54:23.940 --> 00:54:38.040 You know, the newest, the greatest and most amazing thing that is in science fiction television production these days is a volume wall, which they were using on the Disney Star Wars stuff. 00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:47.660 And Strange New Worlds uses a volume wall for some of their sets, which for if you haven't, anyone who's listening hasn't gotten in on this. 00:54:48.080 --> 00:54:53.080 It is a computer-generated background, a wall of LEDs. 00:54:53.600 --> 00:55:01.380 And in the case of like Strange New World, this is a complete almost 360 degree and up and over kind of thing. 00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:02.120 They're very expensive. 00:55:02.660 --> 00:55:05.960 They put practical set design in them. 00:55:06.640 --> 00:55:17.680 And then they put, they use Real Engine, I believe, to generate live computer game photorealistic background. 00:55:18.640 --> 00:55:25.020 that can have you know birds and volcanoes and whatnot going on in the background and it casts 00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:31.080 light because it's a led wall so it's actually reflecting upon the actors the actors can see it 00:55:31.420 --> 00:55:37.320 it um there is a disadvantage to that but i'll get to that in a second uh they can do things 00:55:37.370 --> 00:55:43.580 with it like they can pop a chunk out and put a blue screen up where they need one or anything 00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:52.480 or they can make extra lighting it's it's an it's a really really amazing bit of kit now and it's 00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:59.520 synced entirely to the computer controlled cameras so to create the proper 3d perspective 00:56:00.160 --> 00:56:06.460 when the camera moves the background actually moves and shifts and turns so for the actors 00:56:07.240 --> 00:56:12.359 the actual walls around them are actually moving when they're doing things they say it can actually 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:18.960 cause them uh nausea or or you have to kind of look away because it is it the camera starts 00:56:19.180 --> 00:56:24.660 swooping everything starts changing to create the correct distance effect they don't have that 00:56:25.070 --> 00:56:33.200 for doctor who but in this episode they had uh i don't know maybe a 60 degree arc led wall 00:56:33.580 --> 00:56:37.920 that they use for the battlefield uh when like the doctor is running across it 00:56:37.960 --> 00:56:45.040 and whatnot so they are they are beginning to incorporate that technology into doctor who uh 00:56:45.230 --> 00:56:51.400 at the bad wolf studios so it it looked good you know that's that's the nice thing about it if 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:58.900 they look good for studio bound sets but so there's there's disney money going for good 00:56:59.620 --> 00:57:03.520 that's that's all i can say i don't have anything else about the episode i don't think 00:57:03.540 --> 00:57:11.100 I've got a couple of tiny little things but I'll I'll mention them anyway okay one one so one is 00:57:12.260 --> 00:57:17.340 one is the the I guess linking back to what we were talking about earlier about the idea of 00:57:17.640 --> 00:57:27.500 overwriting and I think maybe the danger in Moffat's case is that he puts too much in he 00:57:27.540 --> 00:57:33.820 gets too clever he adds too many flourishes and in this case it's when he quotes himself 00:57:34.580 --> 00:57:42.400 and in particular the 11th hour and fish fingers and custard so the the doctor says something about 00:57:42.620 --> 00:57:47.500 you know when when you when you come and visit me or when i come and visit you fish fingers and 00:57:47.720 --> 00:57:53.100 custard is my favorite but i think he's misremembered the 11th hour because the whole 00:57:53.260 --> 00:57:57.500 point about the fish fingers and custard scene which i still think is brilliant by the way 00:57:57.580 --> 00:58:02.940 is that it's the new taste buds that he doesn't, he hasn't calibrated. 00:58:03.120 --> 00:58:06.120 You know, he's trying to work out what he likes 00:58:06.170 --> 00:58:09.740 and nothing that Amy makes him is any good 00:58:10.370 --> 00:58:12.060 until he tries the fish fingers and custard. 00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:14.660 But he doesn't have those taste buds anymore. 00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:17.480 That was very specific to that incarnation. 00:58:18.380 --> 00:58:20.860 Yeah, and has this doctor had a meal yet? 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:22.940 I don't know. I don't know. 00:58:23.460 --> 00:58:25.640 I guess kind of related to that, 00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:29.780 The other final little point that I had was we talked about, 00:58:30.500 --> 00:58:35.960 you said you'd like to see RTD writing and being script edited by Moffat. 00:58:36.620 --> 00:58:42.440 And obviously, we must have had Moffat being script edited by RTD 00:58:42.630 --> 00:58:48.920 because when the show first came back, RTD was running it 00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:53.980 and other writers were providing script of whom Moffat was one. 00:58:53.980 --> 00:58:55.520 He was the best, but he was one. 00:58:56.080 --> 00:59:06.880 And so I'm sure that was happening then. I'm not sure that was happening this time because I noticed that there's an executive producer credit on this for Stephen Moffat. 00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:08.980 Oh, really? Extra money. 00:59:09.160 --> 00:59:34.000 Yeah, well, but I also guess a degree more control than typically a writer might have. Now, obviously, RTD is going to have input into it. And clearly, Moffat's not going to have a problem with that. They seem to get on fine. And Moffat's going to recognise that RTD is running the show and running the arc or whatever. But it did jump out at me. I did think, oh, that's interesting. 00:59:34.780 --> 00:59:43.680 You know, the guy, the guy has come back, which was unexpected because RTD very deliberately said he wasn't going to come back and write the show once he left. 00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:53.980 Moffat has done and he's writing for another showrunner, but he appears to have a kind of higher status than an ordinary writer. 00:59:54.320 --> 01:00:09.200 Now, I will say executive producers, that is a, in some cases, a virtually do nothing job title to give money, more money to certain actors. 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:13.740 And I don't mean actors, I mean members of the production team. 01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:28.360 You know, producers, all the other forms of producers are working titles, but executive producer is can just be nothing that they just want to give more money and they have to do it. 01:00:28.600 --> 01:00:33.040 They have to do it through through giving out a title may or may not be the case. 01:00:33.660 --> 01:00:44.400 again in that doctor who unleashed uh rtd said that when he agreed to do doctor who again he said 01:00:44.540 --> 01:00:50.720 he made three phone calls he called julie he called murray gold and he called steven moffat 01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:55.080 and then he said and they may not have been in that order he didn't go on to number four 01:00:55.740 --> 01:01:02.700 or anything else he went straight to steven moffat as you know the only other right you 01:01:02.580 --> 01:01:09.220 you can call chibnall i'm sure that'd be you know 10 or 12th or something that'll but you know it 01:01:09.420 --> 01:01:15.340 says a lot about the working relationship between those two they must get on pretty darn well yeah 01:01:15.520 --> 01:01:21.300 no i said i i think there is definitely a kind of very strong mutual respect there but i i i'm not 01:01:21.460 --> 01:01:28.539 sure that's true here i uh you know about executive producer i think oh yeah i don't know i think i 01:01:28.560 --> 01:01:35.540 think that carries what i'm reminded of is um have you seen it's american film you've seen state and 01:01:35.700 --> 01:01:44.760 main it's a no a satire on kind of make film industry making a film kind of thing and philip 01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:52.700 seymour hoffman's character is a novelist who's having his work adapted to make this film so he's 01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:57.600 he's the kind of outsider to the film industry and there's a there's a there's a line where 01:01:57.560 --> 01:02:01.960 someone talks about giving someone an associate producer credit and he says what's an associate 01:02:02.180 --> 01:02:06.080 producer credit and the answer he's given is it's what you give your secretary instead of a raise 01:02:08.160 --> 01:02:16.500 yeah all right i maybe i'm maybe i'm misremembering my my fake job titles but i mean the point is the 01:02:16.620 --> 01:02:20.660 same that that is definitely that is definitely kind of summing up what you were just talking 01:02:20.750 --> 01:02:25.220 about and they may have they may have changed it for the purposes of the film i don't know but 01:02:25.240 --> 01:02:33.420 But yeah, that definitely reminds me of that. I don't think they would have a problem paying 01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:41.140 off it more money just to write. I think he has had some creative control over this episode. 01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:46.420 But I don't know exactly what that credit represents. 01:02:46.860 --> 01:02:50.260 Here we go. An executive producer is a high-ranking producer who leads a film, 01:02:50.420 --> 01:02:53.580 audio, television, or music production by securing investor financing. 01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:57.460 overseeing the casting process, collaborating with the director, 01:02:58.390 --> 01:03:00.120 creating a distribution deal with a studio, 01:03:00.860 --> 01:03:03.780 and even organizing a marketing campaign to promote the production. 01:03:04.080 --> 01:03:07.200 They also work closely with writers, directors, and other creative personnel 01:03:07.310 --> 01:03:11.140 to develop the script and provide input on the production's visual style. 01:03:11.800 --> 01:03:14.520 And he goes on to say, that's the tip of an iceberg of what an executive producer is. 01:03:14.540 --> 01:03:18.840 So it is a functional job, but it is a bit of a grab bag. 01:03:19.460 --> 01:03:20.200 So it could simply be... 01:03:20.200 --> 01:03:20.860 Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. 01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:34.860 Well, that would be my guess. I would think it has to do with having some input into the directorial decisions that most writers wouldn't get to have. 01:03:35.500 --> 01:03:35.560 Yeah. 01:03:36.220 --> 01:03:38.240 And he was on set, it appeared. 01:03:39.620 --> 01:03:47.480 All right. My apologies to any executive producers out there who felt slighted that I said you were worthless. 01:03:48.200 --> 01:03:51.600 You may still be worthless, but I'm not going to say it just because of your title. 01:03:51.920 --> 01:04:00.240 might just be marketing anyway uh anything else no that's me don't so next one is what 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:08.840 73 yards or something like that that what the title is i can't remember what the title is 01:04:09.520 --> 01:04:15.400 i did wonder you you you talked about whether you were speculating at the end of our last 01:04:15.540 --> 01:04:21.880 discussion about whether this episode was going to be dr light because you thought that we wouldn't 01:04:21.900 --> 01:04:28.380 him standing there on the landmine for the whole episode we would follow ruby's uh attempts to 01:04:28.500 --> 01:04:36.020 yeah now someone help and i think looking at the trailer for the next episode that it is the 01:04:36.180 --> 01:04:42.740 doctor light episode it does feel that way i'm hoping it is um i'm not necessarily trusting the 01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:49.680 the the trailers i think that may be you know just the way it's edited but i certainly think 01:04:49.680 --> 01:04:58.360 that's a possibility so we shall see yeah um it is 73 yards and i am already upset at this episode 01:04:59.140 --> 01:05:08.540 unless unless it is 73 people's front yards or backyards i i don't want to see yards that's 01:05:08.660 --> 01:05:16.700 meters damn it that's okay you're right well anyway simon thank you for joining me 01:05:17.060 --> 01:05:18.020 It's a pleasure, as always. 01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:23.020 And listeners, I hope you'll join us all again next time on Fusion Patrol. 01:05:25.560 --> 01:05:29.080 You've been listening to Fusion Patrol. Thanks for listening. 01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:39.600 If you've enjoyed this episode, we hope you'll consider supporting us at buymeacoffee.com slash Fusion Patrol or patreon.com slash Fusion Patrol. 01:05:40.420 --> 01:05:46.160 For our monthly Patreon subscribers, we're currently running a special series on Babylon 5. 01:05:48.060 --> 01:05:54.600 come join the conversation and find other content at fusion patrol.com and we're back on social 01:05:54.740 --> 01:06:00.820 media where you can also follow us on mastodon and the fediverse our address is at podcast 01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:08.140 at fusion patrol.com our music is fight the future by amber wolf 01:06:10.740 --> 01:06:13.360 this has been a lone locust production