WEBVTT

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you're listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast

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each week we take a single episode of a science fiction tv series movie or

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audio and overanalyze it to within an inch of its life welcome to the discussion

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Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol.

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I'm Eugene.

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And I'm Simon.

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And tonight it's a special holiday 2023 episode.

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A Fusion Patrol will be looking at the 2023 Doctor Who Christmas special,

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The Church on Ruby Road.

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Start with an episode synopsis.

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Ruby Sunday is just your run-of-the-mill foundling.

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left newborn on the steps of the church on Ruby Road on December 24th, 2014.

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And now, just weeks before her 19th birthday,

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she's working with Davina McCall to find her long-lost family.

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But mischievous creatures are causing a series of prank-like accidents that complicate things.

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As the weeks pass and her birthday approaches,

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Ruby faces an increasingly serious series of accidents, which seem like bad luck.

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but are not. All the while, a mysterious stranger who calls himself the Doctor keeps an eye on Ruby.

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Carla Sunday fostered and adopted Ruby, with whom Ruby still lives in an attic mansion.

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Upon returning home on her birthday, Carla has news. They're getting a newborn foster baby that

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very day. What a coincidence! A child born on the same day, albeit a completely different time of

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day in a completely different year than Ruby. Luckily, the new baby, Lulabelle, is not a foundling.

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Now that would have been a coincidence. When Carla pops out to the shops to buy some supplies,

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leaving Ruby in charge of the baby, Ruby gets a call from Davina McCall telling her that they

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found no trace of her family history. Distracted, the creatures steal Lulabelle. Chasing them onto

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the roof, where a rope ladder climbs high into the sky, Ruby tries to follow them. Along comes

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the doctor, who joins her on the rope ladder. He explains that these creatures are goblins,

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and they're going to eat the baby. And them, for that matter. They are taken aboard the ship and

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trussed up while the baby is prepared to be fed to the goblin king, a monstrous Jabba the Hutt sort

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of creature. The doctor and Ruby escape their captivity by, I don't know, talking to the ropes

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or something. Anyway, they get out,

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sing for the Goblin King, escape

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with the baby, and life returns

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to normal. Except

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it doesn't. Another series

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of coincidences and the Goblins have

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taken Ruby by going back in time

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and stealing her when she was left at the

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church. The Doctor goes back

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and, using his gloves, drags

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the flying ship down onto the

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spire of the church of Ruby Road,

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killing the Goblin King, rescuing

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Baby Ruby, and showing

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a distinct lack of curiosity about the woman who left Ruby behind. Back in the present,

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all is as it was, and the doctor leaves. Beginning to piece together the pieces of the puzzle,

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Ruby chases after the doctor, and with just a bit of help from her neighbor, the sinister Mrs. Flood,

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she finds the TARDIS and enters. Hent. I would like to give my wife's review of this episode

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to start with so my wife and i watched this uninterrupted we watched it live as it was

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going out um we i wasn't taking notes you know she was not my wife was not distracted on the phone

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shopping for groceries or whatever i mean just we we sat and watched the episode beginning to end

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and i didn't speak i didn't take notes i wasn't the thing i had and when we got to the end of it

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The credits ran and my wife just sat there and she said, uh-huh.

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And that was her review.

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What did you think of Church on Ruby Road?

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Uh-huh.

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That's not a bad review.

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It's not a bad review.

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I enjoyed it.

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I guess I would separate out the kind of focusing on the performances of Shudy Gatwa, Millie Gibson.

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because, you know, first full shooty episode,

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haven't seen Millie Gibson before.

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So part of me is wanting to kind of assess

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whether I'm going to enjoy a series of watching them.

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And on that score, no real worries there.

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I mean, I just, I thought they were great.

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In terms of the episode itself,

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I guess I was sort of a bit comparing it to other Russell T Davies.

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I mean, the obvious one is the Christmas Invasion, right?

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He's introducing a new doctor in a Christmas special.

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And I can't remember what my first reaction to the Christmas Invasion was.

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I've watched it a number of times and we watched it and discussed it for the podcast.

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But that was after some years after it first went out.

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And I really like it, The Christmas Invasion.

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And so in some ways, comparing this or comparing it to Rose,

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again, another one introducing a new Doctor, a new companion,

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it didn't feel quite as exciting, I suppose, in some ways.

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And like I said, I'm separating out the kind of shooty Gatwa Millie Gibson performances from that

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because I did think that they were really good.

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And in some ways, it kind of it followed the mold a bit of those other episodes in the sense that it is an episode where the kind of monster of the week is some fairly kind of
peripheral disposable nonsense.

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it is so minimal in terms of the plot what he's doing is he's shifting aside everything else so

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that you can focus on the new characters slash new actor and get to know them a bit i i guess

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you know in in in terms of which i yep i quite enjoyed it but yeah i i don't i i'm trying to i'm

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trying to put my finger on it I've only had the chance to watch it once but it felt like there

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were elements in this story that just weren't committed to I don't want to describe it as

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by numbers because I don't think it was really but it's like the the the whole thing of of um

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Ruby having been kidnapped and be in the timeline changing that was very it felt to me very it's a

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wonderful life and i could imagine that stephen moffat would do an entire episode out of it's a

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wonderful life and it would be you know that he would get the absolute full mileage out of it

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um the the the goblin stuff there there i had no idea why the ship just kind of exploded on the

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spire i don't know complaining and it wasn't i wasn't sufficiently invested in the the goblin

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plot to actually want it to carry on longer than it needed to. But I guess, you know, the kind of

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adjunct to that and the thing that you may remember, I complained to you over text when

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they released the Goblin song as a single the week before. And in the lyrics, it talks about

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them feasting on coincidence. And I did say I didn't think I was going to enjoy a plot that

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Russell T Davies was writing about goblins that preyed on coincidences. And again, I don't think

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that I suspect from your synopsis that you agree with this, but I don't think that he really

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committed to the coincidence thing. Again, you think Stephen Moffat does this. He is going to

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make sure that everything in the episode dovetails with everything else in the episode, that nothing

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is not a coincidence whereas in right in the kind of what was supposed to be the coincidences here

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well like you say you know there were various fairly substantial differences between

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the two babies and the and a kind of series of accidents and what that was supposed to do

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i had no idea i had no idea what that was supposed to mean i i mean i get that you know having the

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kind of goblins running around and reaching into frame to trip someone up or to knock a glass off

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the table was part of the kind of mischievous nonsense of the episode but I didn't feel like

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it was didn't feel like it was quite fully explained so I yeah I mean just to sum up I guess

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I enjoyed it I enjoyed it probably more than any of the other RTD episodes that we've had this year

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but not as much as RTD episodes we've had in the past.

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Okay.

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I mean, I have, I'm trying to make a,

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I'll start with I'm glad Doctor Who season is over for a few months

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because this is kind of, in a way, it's exhausting because...

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Emotional rollercoaster.

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Uh, yeah.

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I'll tell you what, I decided as a thing going forward,

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I'm going to try to make a concerted effort to draw forward something positive, positive things.

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You know, not just not just me nitpicking.

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I'm going to positive.

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And I struggled for a couple of hours to come up with anything that I would put in the positive category in this story.

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And I ended up but I didn't hate it.

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And and I was I was, you know, kind of vaguely diverted and vaguely entertained while watching it.

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I hate it.

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It was not until I started thinking about it.

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Don't think, don't think, don't think that, you know, I realized looking at my notes, they're just unrelentingly negative.

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And so I've spent some time and I came up with the best I could do.

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It was a pleasantly mediocre diversion.

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I could definitely say there are things I love to do.

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For example, did you did you like the Goblin song?

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Was that not brilliant?

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I mean, it's partly spoiled by the fact we had it a week early,

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but was that not brilliant?

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I would say that it was, yes,

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as an in-world song thing that they did,

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I thought that was well done until Shooty and,

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well, until the Doctor and Ruby started singing.

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Because then we have that conceit of musical world

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where people can just spin rhyming lyrics out of their butts on the spot and yeah then that kind of

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took it down and of course that part was hidden they didn't release that part i could see that

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being a ritual song that the goblins sing whenever they eat a baby you know in which case then okay

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fine it's it's a it's a baby eating carol but then you carry it one step further and it becomes a

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musical and it's like yeah and no i can buy that up to the point where the doctor finishes singing

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because he's yes supposed to be this super intelligent alien who thinks six times as fast

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as everyone else you can imagine him coming up with the lyrics and he and he and he knows what

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he's going to do he's had a moment to do it whereas he puts right ruby on the spot ruby on

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and she she's she's got to come up with her own lyrics with a human brain bit tricky yep yeah and

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admittedly there is that little bit where she kind of rambles into a nonsense word um can't

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remember what it is off the happy to greedy eating or something like that to get it to rhyme

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which you kind of go okay well yeah but then she still managed a second verse after that

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and like yeah oh that that didn't um but but you know the story at points was dragging for me

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and then it at times there was stuff going on and it was kind of interesting uh once in a while the

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music would rise above the background level at one point i thought mary gold's doing quite the nice

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poor man's james bond there for a moment but but mostly no um and and so i hate it i just

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I hate thinking about it, which is why I say I'm pleased with a little bit of a break, because I really do not like thinking.

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Well, I'm still curious whether there are other positives.

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And one of the things I'm wondering is this is the first episode where it's, you know, fully Shuti Gatwa as the doctor.

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How did you find him?

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not buying him yet i'm i'm like apparently i'm in the minority it seems like the internet is like

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my god he inhabited that rule just in an instant and he's the greatest thing since life written

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and i'm like he seems forced and unnatural really so yep i don't i don't buy that at all um so far

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no i'm loving it you know so for example david tenet's doctor is confronted by a werewolf

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and he goes oh you're beautiful and somehow he sells that as you're a weird dude you're you're

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you're an alien weird dude and shooty sees them about to eat a baby wow that's amazing he's like

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no you're just no you're wrong you're broken dude it's like and i cannot tell you um i i don't know

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and you know i asked my wife because i i really did spend a long time today and i took it to my

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wife and i said help me and she said you know i kind of liked i like shooting out most performance

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and i'm like okay okay why is that this is because because he's not a downer so you're defining what's

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good about his performance by who he's not it's like well i mean i you know i'm tired of it being

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all down and dumpy and like okay i'm i'm with you there but that's not that's not his positive

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that's well i don't know i i think i think you know it's it's more it's more than defined by a

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negative in the sense that there is there's a feeling that i i think you get in this episode

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and i think is there in all of the kind of trailers that this is going to be fun that

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you're going to see the doctor and ruby having fun in a way that you know back in the the first

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David Tennant series it was the Doctor and Rose having fun they were out having a good time and

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then all of the angst kind of crept in and I'm absolutely certain that it will creep in again

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but that's that's because he likes to draw the light and the dark and this is this is drawing

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the light and he likes to bring in the 19 year old blonde girls well yeah although surely Billy

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kipa was older than that i think she was supposed to be like 19 now i have no idea yeah no she was

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actually there was a there was a reference to her doing doing her a-level but i mean i hadn't i

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hadn't seen millie gibson before and i i thought you know i thought she was terrific but i i did

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i mean i've got i've got to say it's that there's something about gatua's performance which brings

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it's not just not being a downer it is it's a kind of energy that there is there is i i had a

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different reaction to that line because i see an enthusiasm in him that that's what it's supposed

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to be that's right yeah but it's not it's not just an alien enthusiasm it is this kind of enthusiasm

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for everything you you see it in the club when he's dancing you know it's just he's very he he's

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very kind of top gear all of the time and i i think for for some in some actors that kind of

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top gear performance could get quite wearing none of that with with gatua i just think it was all

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really really beautifully judged i i i i'm not i'm not making my final judgment yet so you know i

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think and i don't think you are either i think we're in different places now but i and i'm not

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i'm not saying i'm not gonna shift on this but right now i'm i'm thinking yeah well for me at

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least one of the big positives in this episode was him well so a couple things i mean one of

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the things that i was thinking about while i was talking through with my wife about why she liked

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his performance or which really was you know he's like yeah he's not a downer paraphrasing

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We did a whole, you and I did a whole series where we looked at Doctor's first episodes and then compared them to what we subsequently know about how that Doctor was over
the course of their time.

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And, you know, a lot of the episodes that we looked at for their first episodes are not particularly indicative of the Doctor as a whole.

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And so I'm not going to go out there and say, nope, this guy's a failure because it just didn't land for me.

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But I'll come back to it.

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On the page, I can absolutely see what they're doing.

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It's the enthusiasm.

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It's the whatnot.

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But there's also a whimsy there that I'm not as crazy about, but it didn't land as natural.

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And I'll pull a couple examples here.

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We'll go way back.

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Pertwee and Baker are weird people.

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I think in real life, they're probably weird people.

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to some degree and it comes off that way on on you know when you see them on the screen

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i don't know about david tenet he may just be the most brilliant actor in the world but he

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manages to pull that off i mean i i just didn't work for me in this one it didn't it didn't wasn't

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like oh my god that's terrible it was just that's unnatural that's the most best word i can come up

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for is it feels it it runs the hackles up my back somehow as as just not quite believable

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and i think the fact that that they've gone heavier towards the whimsy does not help because

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i don't know what to make of this new universe we live in in doctor who where physics isn't physics

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and gravity isn't mavity.

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And what are the lines he's got here?

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He says, it's a new world.

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It's new physics, new science.

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He's learning this new world.

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And I think that's key.

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I think we're in a kooky theory.

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I think this mavity thing has got some legs

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and that we're going to have to fix that

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by the end of the season

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to get back to hopefully a real universe

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that isn't full of intelligence

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string

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I'm going to buy

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some of that I think that

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unfortunately the Mavity thing

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is obviously

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not a kind

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of wild blue yonder only

00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:09.500
throw away which

00:20:09.620 --> 00:20:11.360
I do find weird

00:20:11.360 --> 00:20:13.560
because I don't see how they're going to

00:20:13.660 --> 00:20:14.640
kind of resolve

00:20:15.540 --> 00:20:17.400
the Isaac Newton

00:20:17.420 --> 00:20:27.500
storyline strand without having donna in it but anyway okay the the the time time has been changed

00:20:27.540 --> 00:20:34.740
and that has had some effect i don't think that has changed the physics of the universe no i think

00:20:34.860 --> 00:20:39.540
that's the way i think perhaps i think that's changed in earth time well i i don't i don't know

00:20:39.540 --> 00:20:44.740
that the physics of the universe has changed the impression i got from that bit of dialogue

00:20:45.580 --> 00:20:50.320
was that the goblins technology or physics

00:20:50.740 --> 00:20:52.720
or the science of whatever was going on there,

00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.460
the way, I mean, the ropes are a form of technology, I think,

00:20:55.560 --> 00:20:57.940
and it's something that the Doctor hadn't encountered before.

00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:02.980
And we've discussed the fact that there are almost like phases

00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:10.000
in Doctor Who where you go from the Doctor knows everything,

00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.000
has been everywhere, and, yeah,

00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:17.640
whenever they come across something, it's the companion that's surprised and it's the doctor

00:21:17.730 --> 00:21:25.380
that is, oh, this is this, that and the other. Two times when the doctor comes across something,

00:21:26.260 --> 00:21:30.900
frequently seems to come across things that he's never come across before. And that,

00:21:31.310 --> 00:21:39.620
I think, is what is going on with this. And that is something that it does appeal to me. I mean,

00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:41.720
I think there's a balance to be struck.

00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:48.740
You need the Doctor to bring a little of the wisdom that he has

00:21:48.940 --> 00:21:52.680
from having spent however many hundreds or thousands of years

00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:54.620
travelling the universe that he has now.

00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:58.000
So you would expect him to have a level of knowledge

00:21:58.340 --> 00:22:02.880
that is several degrees of magnitude above those of certainly his human companions.

00:22:03.780 --> 00:22:09.380
But at the same time, I quite like it when he turns up on the planet Gerbil.

00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:16.700
and he's never been there before and doesn't already know its entire history and it i i

00:22:17.060 --> 00:22:22.680
completely agree yeah so i think i think it's a bit like that that was the impression i got so

00:22:23.620 --> 00:22:30.980
you know there's this like i i think i don't think it's well thought out once again but i'll i'll

00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:39.760
say i think mavity is just a clue for us that things aren't right that that that this is not

00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:47.260
the playground we were in before prior to prior to that event and whether or not these are related

00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:52.720
whether or not that's i i think they probably are related they're not related to the moment in the

00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:59.039
yeah it's not the event it's not the event of changing mavity that did it i don't i don't

00:22:59.060 --> 00:23:03.340
believe that is what it is gravity to mavety i don't believe that's what it is i just believe

00:23:03.370 --> 00:23:11.540
that this is a reminder to us that we're in a different place the doctor is is coming to grips

00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:18.120
with this this different world new physics new science and i don't think that you know we can

00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:23.820
make the argument that they have different physics i i of course you know we've got intelligent gloves

00:23:23.840 --> 00:23:24.980
that can defile physics.

00:23:25.300 --> 00:23:26.360
So I don't know.

00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:30.140
I just, that feels to me like Mavity is the shorthand

00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.840
for something is amiss that needs to be straightened out.

00:23:34.300 --> 00:23:37.020
And I, you know, there's plenty of clues in this episode

00:23:37.300 --> 00:23:39.900
that there is something amiss that needs to be straightened out.

00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:41.020
But really, you know,

00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:44.440
Goblin Kings flying in a ship over London.

00:23:44.860 --> 00:23:48.040
This is, you know, this is, this is fairy tale stories.

00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:48.800
Yeah.

00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:49.860
And it's a Christmas special.

00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:53.060
And that is also like really hot.

00:23:53.140 --> 00:24:02.440
But on the other hand, you know, RTD is like the guy who made Santa Claus turn out to be kind of a robot thing.

00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:07.840
And the Christmas star that everyone thinks about is actually an arachnid ship.

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:13.660
And, you know, that there are alien explanations to these things.

00:24:14.420 --> 00:24:19.300
And yet this one seems to be like, no, we're actually taking the full on fantasy.

00:24:20.080 --> 00:24:20.460
I don't know.

00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:22.800
I didn't feel like it feels different.

00:24:23.899 --> 00:24:34.780
To me, it felt like the stuff about feeding on coincidences or whatever, it wasn't any more extreme than quite a number of Doctor Who stories.

00:24:35.260 --> 00:24:38.220
This is a direct result of salt at the end of the universe.

00:24:39.140 --> 00:24:40.120
This is that.

00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:41.660
This is that.

00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:43.020
This is part of that.

00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:48.800
He's let the things that don't exist, the superstition things in.

00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:50.980
That's got to be what it is.

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:58.620
Yes, I was wondering what your conjecture was as to what the event that had precipitated this change.

00:24:58.620 --> 00:25:00.120
And yes, it could be the salt.

00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:02.200
I'm not convinced.

00:25:02.230 --> 00:25:19.880
The only kind of fantastical thing, it seems to me, about the goblins that wasn't kind of explained by the reverse polarity style mumbo jumbo was the fact that when the
goblin king got spiked on the church steeple,

00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:24.660
the entire ship just popped out of existence.

00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:28.300
And that, like I say, was convenient,

00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:32.660
but it didn't really have any foundation in anything

00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:35.460
that we'd already learnt in the plot.

00:25:36.060 --> 00:25:36.260
Yeah.

00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:39.100
It was just, well...

00:25:39.100 --> 00:25:40.500
And including the new physics.

00:25:41.300 --> 00:25:46.620
This is me going back to my complaint about...

00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:48.500
I can't think of the episode.

00:25:49.420 --> 00:25:53.900
new new new new new new new new new new new new york with a cat people which one was that one

00:25:54.780 --> 00:26:00.320
new um oh is itjust new earth well i can't remember the name gridlock yeah i think it's

00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:05.520
gridlock no it's not gridlock it's it no it'S New Earth it's it must be New Earth because it's

00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:09.240
the one where at the end he just they're all about to die and then suddenly grabs a bucket

00:26:09.270 --> 00:26:14.040
of slop and splashes it on him and we've done and i'm like yeah that's RTD writing yeah yeah

00:26:14.340 --> 00:26:19.240
that's RTD writing in a nutshell uh drama drama drama tension tension tension oh

00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:19.360
oh

00:26:19.360 --> 00:26:19.380
oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:20.120
It's all things.

00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.060
And that's what happened here.

00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:25.100
It's just exactly what happened here.

00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:27.960
In fact, he was, he jumped down a thing.

00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:31.800
I think on a rope, it was a rope in New Earth.

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.800
And it was, it was a ladder on this one.

00:26:38.260 --> 00:26:40.200
And brought down and murdered the Goblin King.

00:26:41.220 --> 00:26:42.560
Well, let's call it manslaughter.

00:26:43.180 --> 00:26:44.920
But a gob slaughter.

00:26:45.540 --> 00:26:46.240
That's a good thing.

00:26:48.040 --> 00:26:49.280
I like that.

00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:49.960
God slaughter.

00:26:53.620 --> 00:26:57.340
So, yeah, as you said it, they were just kind of disposable.

00:26:58.790 --> 00:26:59.520
And they were fun.

00:26:59.840 --> 00:27:04.880
That was, you know, something that was the best part about the episode to me was the realization of the goblins.

00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:16.140
I'll go out there and say I thought that they suitably fit the Christmas theme, that they were just hokey enough, but just well done enough.

00:27:16.800 --> 00:27:20.460
that I thought the movie gremlins all the way through.

00:27:22.199 --> 00:27:25.920
And I thought they did really well at that.

00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:31.880
I will say that they're not very good at setting their traps because in the,

00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:37.020
at the interview at the beginning, they, they set the trap in the wrong order.

00:27:37.580 --> 00:27:41.440
They moved the bait first, the coffee, then they,

00:27:42.080 --> 00:27:45.160
then they tightened the wire that, that she would trip over.

00:27:45.260 --> 00:27:50.480
and then they hooked it up so that it would pull the light thing you should definitely set the trap

00:27:50.760 --> 00:27:55.740
first before you move the bait right they should have done all that other stuff first then move

00:27:55.790 --> 00:28:01.320
the cup on the woman so that she'd have to step because otherwise it could go really wrong on you

00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:06.820
but but you know nonetheless it was an amusing scene and it wasn't until the second time through

00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:13.559
that i saw that i go you should have done that the other way but um yeah um don't don't think

00:28:13.580 --> 00:28:19.860
and i i can't i can't do that when i'm taking notes so like but i did i liked the i liked the

00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:27.400
goblins not so much the goblin king um that was just okay big big blobby thing that that the

00:28:27.580 --> 00:28:33.820
church on ruby road which played so little part in this episode uh was named after yeah good title

00:28:34.080 --> 00:28:40.399
though it's not a bad title i'll give it that um i am gonna bring up something here speaking of my

00:28:40.580 --> 00:28:42.420
I guess we can go into the

00:28:43.280 --> 00:28:44.720
is Ruby a plant

00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:46.960
I definitely don't think

00:28:47.260 --> 00:28:48.420
that Russell T Davies

00:28:48.780 --> 00:28:51.200
that took me a while there because I was

00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:52.080
I was thinking

00:28:53.280 --> 00:28:54.260
you know seeds of doom

00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:55.860
crinoid yeah

00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:57.900
no no no I mean

00:28:59.040 --> 00:29:00.800
so Russell T Davies is

00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:02.880
absolutely not going to

00:29:03.260 --> 00:29:04.880
make this is the guy that brought

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.040
back David Tennant just so he could not kill him off

00:29:07.580 --> 00:29:08.700
you know he

00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:16.320
he is not going to give he's not going to make ruby evil bad anything like that she's a cog in

00:29:16.460 --> 00:29:23.540
some sort of game that i i genuinely believe and they very much you know there's that whole well

00:29:23.540 --> 00:29:29.360
we can't find any evidence of your family now i don't know how the show long lost families go

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:36.620
but i do a little know about dna and even if you can't find anybody's family a dna test tells you

00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.980
a lot of different things like your ethnicity and and a number of other factors that i think

00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:46.180
they would have said you know you don't know your parents are but you know we've narrowed it down

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:52.560
that you're but you're 2.5 yeah you know and and stuff like that and they didn't do that and i'm

00:29:52.760 --> 00:29:56.640
i'm kind of wondering if that's because you know we're going to turn out ruby's a genetically

00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:04.440
engineered human or ruby's an alien or ruby's uh you know whatever something that would not match

00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:12.100
human dna except i would think that it would match human dna but i have a point but it could

00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:16.400
be that you're reading a little bit too much into that because it could also be that it's just

00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:23.960
a yes plot contrivance in order to have that second phone call with davina mccall and lead

00:30:24.040 --> 00:30:29.620
into her getting crushed by the christmas tree then let me ask you this question in the uh in

00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:35.940
the sequence where they had lulabelle uh up aboard the ship uh what did the goblins what did the

00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:40.500
goblins plan to eat what did they what did they say they were going to eat what did they sing they

00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:46.020
were going to eat the baby over and over again the baby that's right yeah what did they say they

00:30:46.080 --> 00:30:51.580
were going to eat when they were going to eat ruby i they didn't call her a baby they called her

00:30:52.090 --> 00:31:00.740
the beast over and over again oh i missed the beast eat the beast eat the beast so

00:31:02.300 --> 00:31:10.060
interesting i mean i i i i i i don't i don't i'm not i'm not dismissing entirely the idea that

00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:17.340
there is something significant to the fact that they were unable to track down Ruby's relatives.

00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:25.540
And obviously the question of who was it who left Ruby at the church on Ruby Road

00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:28.780
is something that we're going to come back to.

00:31:28.820 --> 00:31:31.180
I mean, it can't be as obvious as being Mrs. Flood, right?

00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:33.240
I don't think it's Mrs. Flood.

00:31:33.340 --> 00:31:34.960
And a lot of people say that online.

00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:36.960
We still need to know who Mrs. Flood is.

00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:43.280
that wouldn't even solve the mystery if it's true okay well hold on i want to point one other thing

00:31:43.290 --> 00:31:48.640
else about that particular not about miss flood but about the the mother the opening narration

00:31:49.320 --> 00:31:55.520
which i hate um but once again the opening narration kind of was by shooty but he was

00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:02.080
not in the character of the doctor and there are two things that he said that the narrator said now

00:32:02.100 --> 00:32:11.880
I don't know if we can take the narrator's words for facts, but because he is not the doctor in this sequence, I think we can take it.

00:32:12.300 --> 00:32:25.640
And the two things were that that was Ruby's mother that left her and that they did not know the identity of that woman until the doctor came that night.

00:32:26.340 --> 00:32:30.720
Because it's very clear that the doctor knew the identity of that woman that night.

00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:33.860
And yet we saw the whole sequence and he never went near her.

00:32:34.540 --> 00:32:39.880
So he somehow identified that woman back somehow.

00:32:40.550 --> 00:32:41.000
I don't know.

00:32:41.540 --> 00:32:44.880
So yeah, there's no doubt that Ruby is something.

00:32:45.610 --> 00:32:51.040
Whether not her herself, she is a piece of, she's the bait or she's something.

00:32:51.320 --> 00:32:58.140
But she is, you know, there as a part of a nefarious scheme along the way.

00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:00.620
Did you, you said you only watched it once?

00:33:01.620 --> 00:33:10.480
did you notice that um mrs flood's personality changed completely mid mid episode yes right

00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:15.480
right at the moment where she dropped her groceries and was terrified when she saw the

00:33:15.620 --> 00:33:22.040
tardis disappear when we come back she's i'll put nice in quotation marks but she's nice to

00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:29.060
everyone including abdul who she clearly hates and she'd set a chair out on her doorstep so she

00:33:29.080 --> 00:33:35.020
could sit and watch what was going on you know and now she's all friendly and of course at the

00:33:35.180 --> 00:33:41.760
end she gives that bit about you think i'd never seen a tardis before something it was i mean i

00:33:41.860 --> 00:33:49.040
know i so i noticed that shift the fact the fact that she's that she has that line you know like

00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.980
abdul had never seen the tardis before but then earlier in the episode she was claiming that

00:33:54.280 --> 00:34:00.500
abdul had put the tardis there because he hates her and he wanted to do it in order to annoy her

00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:12.280
which okay um i i my interpretation of that again one viewing so you know i can see this is not

00:34:12.560 --> 00:34:18.340
necessarily going to be a very informed or correct view on it but my interpretation of that was that

00:34:18.700 --> 00:34:26.120
Mrs. Flood had been dissembling. She had been pretending earlier in the episode not to know what a TARDIS was.

00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:29.300
And there was a whole act going on.

00:34:29.899 --> 00:34:41.419
And then later on, we were seeing her behaving in different ways with different people because it was about who she was putting up the front for.

00:34:42.040 --> 00:34:45.020
Could be. Could be. Or could be she was taken over?

00:34:45.520 --> 00:35:06.520
Well, it could be. It hadn't even occurred to me that she was taken over and it absolutely could be. I think I do need to watch it again. And that, you know, that that's a
perfectly that that would make sense. And I wonder if it is one of the one of these kind of Time of the Angels type coat situation.

00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:11.800
RTD is trying to replicate Stephen Moffat now. Come on, he's not going to accomplish this.

00:35:12.700 --> 00:35:18.760
but maybe i mean that was that that that was kind of my reaction it was like with with moffett we

00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:24.500
were all looking at those details and the coat changing and i don't i mean i think moffett made

00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:31.720
choices that were just a bit random sometime or you know they they may have come about through

00:35:32.539 --> 00:35:38.840
making a change making a change late late in the you know near final draft and then not going back

00:35:38.860 --> 00:35:40.880
and having time to correct everything else.

00:35:41.100 --> 00:35:43.320
So there are difficulties there

00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:44.660
when you're trying to be that intricate

00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:46.820
and every detail that appears on screen

00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:48.680
has this kind of hidden significance.

00:35:49.380 --> 00:35:50.460
But he did pull it off there.

00:35:50.470 --> 00:35:51.860
He absolutely did pull it off.

00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:56.200
He presented that to those people,

00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.460
and I wasn't among them,

00:35:57.520 --> 00:35:58.980
those people who were sharp-eyed enough

00:35:59.010 --> 00:35:59.980
to spot this thing,

00:36:01.080 --> 00:36:04.120
who then, you know, got the payoff

00:36:04.270 --> 00:36:05.740
in the reveal at the end of the season.

00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:11.640
It's just that, you know, again, there were two explanations then.

00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:13.820
One was that this was a continuity error,

00:36:13.850 --> 00:36:17.320
that the costume department or whoever had just, you know,

00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:19.240
picked the wrong coat.

00:36:19.530 --> 00:36:21.520
And the other explanation was it was Moffat writing

00:36:21.700 --> 00:36:22.600
something incredibly clever.

00:36:23.300 --> 00:36:26.360
And there are two explanations going on here.

00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:31.300
Like one is that somewhere in the performance or the direction

00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:35.980
or just the way that Davies has written it, you know,

00:36:36.100 --> 00:36:39.900
in terms of this character hiding her true nature,

00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:42.660
there is this inconsistency on screen.

00:36:42.770 --> 00:36:45.420
And the other is that he is being very clever

00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:52.440
in presenting a kind of mid-episode possession

00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.680
or alien takeover of the character

00:36:56.520 --> 00:36:59.880
in such a subtle way that someone like me could watch it

00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:01.120
and not spot that happening.

00:37:01.780 --> 00:37:02.420
It's possible.

00:37:03.180 --> 00:37:04.080
I'm not ruling it out.

00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:05.500
I'm surprised.

00:37:05.540 --> 00:37:14.540
Well, you know, the other thing is I feel like you can kind of feel a certain antagonism that Mrs. Flood has to Abdul.

00:37:15.370 --> 00:37:21.520
And yet, at the end, it's like she's talking to a completely different person, or she is a different person.

00:37:22.220 --> 00:37:29.320
And Abdul is just, you know, a guy standing there that I'm going to, not like somebody I have a history of disliking.

00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:35.660
And, you know, hating, as I think Ruby said, you two hate each other, something to that effect.

00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:38.420
Now, I'll throw this one out there.

00:37:38.430 --> 00:37:43.800
And this one is a genuine, I don't know, after the show sort of ends.

00:37:44.540 --> 00:37:48.760
And then we cut back to Mrs. Flood and she says, well, I haven't seen it TARDIS before.

00:37:49.350 --> 00:37:50.480
And winks at the camera.

00:37:51.180 --> 00:37:52.880
She is breaking the fourth wall there.

00:37:53.560 --> 00:37:57.420
And it could just be a jolly old Christmas nothing.

00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:58.600
Feast of Stephen.

00:37:59.360 --> 00:37:59.460
Yeah.

00:38:00.140 --> 00:38:00.420
Could be.

00:38:00.490 --> 00:38:01.740
I'm sure it's a nod to that.

00:38:02.600 --> 00:38:04.500
So I genuinely don't know.

00:38:04.680 --> 00:38:06.300
But when I watched it the second time,

00:38:06.370 --> 00:38:09.160
because I'd noticed she seemed an awful lot nicer to Abdul

00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:12.220
than she had given indication of before.

00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.660
I noticed that she really was shocked

00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:18.200
when she saw the TARDIS disappear.

00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:20.500
You know, she was walking down the street

00:38:20.700 --> 00:38:23.720
and she did do the whole, ah, and drop the,

00:38:24.460 --> 00:38:26.680
but then it pops in and out over and over again

00:38:26.770 --> 00:38:27.600
and she doesn't care.

00:38:27.680 --> 00:38:29.000
In fact, she's sitting there watching it

00:38:29.020 --> 00:38:34.740
Like it's like she's if she had a sure box of popcorn, it would have been perfect.

00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:36.820
I need to I need to watch it again.

00:38:36.940 --> 00:38:45.380
Obviously, when the TARDIS disappears and she's shocked by it, that's when the doctor goes back to 2004 or whatever it is.

00:38:46.040 --> 00:38:47.100
And might change.

00:38:47.160 --> 00:38:55.340
time is it possible that he changes her timeline and that when we come back even though he's fixed

00:38:55.540 --> 00:39:01.720
the ruby thing there's something about her that has been changed by his the whole it's going back

00:39:01.720 --> 00:39:08.080
to life it's possible and i did it did cross my mind but here's the other thing she seems a whole

00:39:08.220 --> 00:39:16.579
lot more sinister in the second half of the episode you know she's got that jolly but her eyes look

00:39:16.600 --> 00:39:25.140
so much more calculating and evil you know the smile on the face but the the basically the missy

00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:32.540
look when she's not mad sure like not saying that's the master but but you know well this is

00:39:32.540 --> 00:39:37.120
this is one of the things like this is one of the things i've got to ask because obviously i've seen

00:39:37.120 --> 00:39:43.660
the various the usual suggestions that come out about this it's the ronnie is it missy the ronnie

00:39:43.700 --> 00:39:45.760
is the first one that I saw

00:39:45.830 --> 00:39:47.800
because that always comes up.

00:39:48.740 --> 00:39:49.820
That's always for women.

00:39:50.060 --> 00:39:51.900
Now that's been thrown.

00:39:52.180 --> 00:39:53.720
I mean, if Russell T Davies

00:39:53.830 --> 00:39:55.820
wanted to do this, they should have a man

00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.780
come back and then no one

00:39:57.810 --> 00:39:59.860
will guess it's the

00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:01.200
Ronnie. And then

00:40:01.720 --> 00:40:02.660
it's the Ronnie.

00:40:04.140 --> 00:40:05.140
But there are

00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:07.500
more left field possibilities,

00:40:07.780 --> 00:40:09.020
I think. I mean, I

00:40:10.520 --> 00:40:11.720
honestly haven't managed

00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:13.640
to keep in my head enough of what happened

00:40:13.660 --> 00:40:19.700
in the flux to remember what happened to tech to earn at the end but um there's also what i remember

00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:24.100
and again don't remember the details from the end of time but all of that speculation about claire

00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:30.180
bloom's character in that which i don't think we got properly resolved and in particular with with

00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:38.599
that i i'm sure that russell t davies good because that that was basically the end of his run yeah

00:40:38.620 --> 00:40:46.940
But I'm sure that if he had something in mind for what he thought she was, he won't have like chucked it away.

00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:50.500
And now he's back running the show again.

00:40:51.340 --> 00:40:54.760
He will be looking through his file of old ideas.

00:40:55.520 --> 00:41:00.440
And if he still thinks that's a good one, then maybe he's going to weave it in.

00:41:00.510 --> 00:41:04.180
So that for me, that's that's the most likely one.

00:41:04.340 --> 00:41:14.520
But I kind of hope that it's not any of those things, that it is some new mysterious adversary who happens to know what TARDISes are.

00:41:14.610 --> 00:41:21.440
Because one of the things I did enjoy about this episode was that it was completely fresh.

00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:25.880
New Doctor, new companion, no returning monsters.

00:41:26.780 --> 00:41:35.980
It's, you know, a bit like going back to that wonderful beginning of the Jodie Whittaker season where it was all just completely new stuff.

00:41:36.380 --> 00:41:40.640
And it would be wonderful if, you know, we could have another season of that.

00:41:42.020 --> 00:41:47.240
Yeah, I think you hit on something as he, Rokiti, going back to his file of old ideas.

00:41:48.040 --> 00:41:55.440
I kind of think I could be wrong, but my impression so far is that all he's got is his file of old ideas.

00:41:55.860 --> 00:42:01.700
but there you go well that well that was what i wasn't going to say because i am i am really

00:42:01.940 --> 00:42:07.880
really trying to i just well i've gone over it over the last three episodes enough i'm i'm just

00:42:08.420 --> 00:42:17.020
i'm just really wanting the the new rtd to be as exciting as having a new showrunner because i'm i

00:42:17.080 --> 00:42:23.140
feel i'm missing out on having a new showrunner take it on so but you know this this was a genuinely

00:42:24.020 --> 00:42:30.760
an episode without any of those kind of returning things it certainly had the rtd hallmarks on it

00:42:30.860 --> 00:42:37.880
but it also had us and you know one of those was bringing davina mccall back obviously but uh you

00:42:38.080 --> 00:42:44.740
know that's a minor thing as these things go and it did have a kind of different style and a different

00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:52.280
feel from it it may be partly to do with the new leads and everything but from 13 years ago

00:42:55.259 --> 00:43:05.400
um let's see in the in the assumption that that woman is left over from the rtd era which i did

00:43:05.500 --> 00:43:12.120
cross my mind and all the speculation there was mostly either the ronnie or the doctor's mother

00:43:12.700 --> 00:43:17.320
and now we know the doctor doesn't have a mother or does the doctor have a mother would this be

00:43:17.600 --> 00:43:22.700
would this be the doctor's adopted mother not dead or would this be the doctor's real mother

00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:30.140
who abandoned him as a foundling on another universe uh-huh uh-huh just i just throw that

00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:36.600
out there i do i do think the i do think the way in which would be a coincidence well the way in

00:43:36.700 --> 00:43:41.100
which he's leaning into i mean because he's writing a foundling story why is he chosen to

00:43:41.100 --> 00:43:45.180
do a foundling story i'm sure it's because he is leaning into the timeless child stuff

00:43:45.660 --> 00:44:11.940
And I don't think he would be doing that if he hadn't decided that he wasn't going to develop it. He's going to take it further in some way. Because obviously there must
have been more to that story. And I assume he will have talked to Chris Chibnall about it, that Chibnall would have developed if he hadn't had the kind of COVID-19
curtailing of his final season.

00:44:12.680 --> 00:44:24.560
And so, you know, I mean, that obviously leaves Davis with a choice of I just ditch this and do something completely different or I get what Chibnall's ideas were.

00:44:25.100 --> 00:44:31.160
And I, you know, pick the ones I like and I run with it to develop something that takes it further.

00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:39.460
And I don't think he would be I don't think he would be making as much of a fuss about it if he wasn't planning to do something with it himself.

00:44:39.640 --> 00:45:01.500
Yeah, I was very disappointed in that. Yeah, I just found out I'm adopted. Like, you could have just forgotten that. We could have just forgotten that in the whole half
human thing. You know, just never say it again. And let's just go. But yes, by bringing it up. Yeah.

00:45:02.240 --> 00:45:17.380
I'm holding judgment off. I did not like the Timeless Child thing, but it's done now. The question for me is whether Davis can come up with an interesting story using
that, because in a way, whether it fixes it or not.

00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:32.380
I mean, I don't think it will fix it for me. I don't like it. But this is this is in a way something new. And he can either do something new that's, you know, genuinely based.
Well, either based on something else or based on something he's just created for the purpose of this story.

00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:37.400
or he can pick up on what's there and create something new based on that.

00:45:37.650 --> 00:45:42.140
And I'm not going to, if he comes up with something good,

00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:45.500
I'm not going to feel that that's any less good

00:45:46.270 --> 00:45:48.840
because it's connected with the timeless child story.

00:45:49.020 --> 00:45:50.720
You know, I don't like it.

00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:51.700
I'll never like it.

00:45:52.650 --> 00:45:54.400
But if it leaves something good.

00:45:54.600 --> 00:45:59.120
It has to do something to make the timeless child less offensive.

00:46:00.060 --> 00:46:05.980
Well, I mean, I guess it will make it less offensive in my mind.

00:46:06.040 --> 00:46:07.580
I mean, it's partly the passage of time.

00:46:07.580 --> 00:46:08.800
It's got to make it make sense.

00:46:09.500 --> 00:46:11.040
It's got to make it make sense.

00:46:11.720 --> 00:46:12.400
It just doesn't.

00:46:12.580 --> 00:46:15.920
I think what it does is it motivates it.

00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:23.680
It makes you feel like if it leads into a story that's good, it feels like there is some purpose to it.

00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:27.920
Even if in the lead-in, it is still a mess.

00:46:28.140 --> 00:46:30.940
I mean, I don't think you'll fix that.

00:46:31.080 --> 00:46:32.380
I don't think you'll fix that ever.

00:46:32.560 --> 00:46:38.300
But then I think for all of the things that have been, air quotes, fixed, they're not.

00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:45.820
You go back and watch those episodes, you know, you know, at the time they were just a horrible mess.

00:46:46.160 --> 00:46:57.140
And all that you have is the context to know that, well, at least, you know, when you get to the nadir of that stuff, you know,

00:46:57.460 --> 00:46:59.020
well, at least this is as bad as it gets,

00:46:59.160 --> 00:47:00.700
or at least, you know, there's a good episode

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:03.920
in a couple of stories time or whatever it may be.

00:47:04.600 --> 00:47:05.820
The thing that I don't like,

00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:08.720
and the thing that I was particularly worrying about

00:47:09.020 --> 00:47:10.400
in the giggle, I guess,

00:47:10.620 --> 00:47:13.780
was that I felt like I don't like this,

00:47:14.180 --> 00:47:16.360
and I'm worried it's going to get worse,

00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:18.820
you know, with the by-generation stuff.

00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.120
Well, it hasn't got worse, at least so far.

00:47:22.540 --> 00:47:25.440
The by-generation stuff, that was a couple of weeks ago.

00:47:25.700 --> 00:47:34.380
I'm starting to forget about it because we've had, you know, the Churchill Ruby Road without any by generation nonsense.

00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:36.360
You know, the doctor hasn't turned up.

00:47:36.540 --> 00:47:38.360
Donna, the other doctor hasn't turned up.

00:47:38.740 --> 00:47:39.600
Donna hasn't turned up.

00:47:39.660 --> 00:47:44.380
As long as they don't, I'll be allowed to just quietly forget that it happened.

00:47:46.220 --> 00:47:46.980
A couple of things.

00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:56.060
This was just in the category of, you know, we've complained about the sonic screwdriver being able to do, you know, whatever the magic wand needs to do.

00:47:56.640 --> 00:48:06.040
But in a single episode, we have the sonic screwdriver needs screws to work so that it can't work on a door.

00:48:06.100 --> 00:48:06.820
Or work a rope.

00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:15.540
Or then we go to, and when it dings, it's found a two carat diamond on somebody else in the area.

00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:19.240
Well, it is definitely a new passion.

00:48:20.240 --> 00:48:21.780
Yeah, it is definitely a new Sonic.

00:48:22.200 --> 00:48:23.440
I mean, I don't know.

00:48:24.580 --> 00:48:40.320
I'm not going to say I liked it, but I had this feeling in that moment of the Paul McGann 1996 movie where he goes around telling everyone what's in their future,

00:48:40.420 --> 00:48:46.080
even though there's no possible way he could have memorized what everyone on earth who he doesn't

00:48:46.120 --> 00:48:51.840
know he's going to bump into is going to it is going to kind of grow up didn't yeah become and

00:48:52.120 --> 00:48:58.000
and so i i was worried that he somehow knew what this policeman would do rather than that he was

00:48:58.560 --> 00:49:05.480
just using a little bit of knowledge like he's got the diamond and extrapolating from that which

00:49:05.500 --> 00:49:14.600
i preferred and that made me forget and forgive the screwdriver nonsense well i mean it extrapolates

00:49:14.780 --> 00:49:20.420
only up to the point where the only thing that he was able to extrapolate there was that his partner

00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:32.880
was a female that she will say yes no that's just that you bought it early that means she'll say yes

00:49:32.900 --> 00:49:37.420
because you didn't wait around and so that's you're that kind of person how does he know that

00:49:37.420 --> 00:49:42.860
she isn't a tightwad and go wait you didn't wait till the sales oh we're gonna be bankrupt if i

00:49:42.980 --> 00:49:48.440
marry you never mind i know well i think the thing about is we don't we don't know that we don't know

00:49:48.520 --> 00:49:56.799
that the doctor actually he you know i know you're not married so i i can't answer i can't ask you

00:49:56.820 --> 00:50:03.700
from your own personal opinion to answer this question um he says something to the effect of

00:50:04.220 --> 00:50:12.240
i'm assuming that your partner's a woman because it's a diamond and 81 of men wouldn't pick it

00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:19.400
something like that men wouldn't pick a diamond it's like okay the person you're going to ask to

00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:28.820
marry you does not pick the ring the man in this case the pc is a man he's gonna pick something he

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:36.120
picked a diamond if his partner was a man he'd still pick a diamond because he's a man picking

00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:42.120
it it didn't make it didn't make a whole lot of sense unless there's been some recent article

00:50:42.200 --> 00:50:44.920
about customs of same-sex couples

00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:48.300
choosing their stones or something.

00:50:49.220 --> 00:50:53.520
You'd assume that he would have

00:50:54.100 --> 00:50:56.560
at least tried to surreptitiously find out

00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:58.660
what kind of stone she would like in the rake

00:50:58.940 --> 00:51:00.160
before he goes and finds his own price.

00:51:00.160 --> 00:51:01.660
Okay, I've never met anybody that did that.

00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:04.660
Again, that could be a same-sex thing.

00:51:04.780 --> 00:51:06.560
You just, you know, it's an engagement, right?

00:51:06.580 --> 00:51:07.120
You buy a diamond.

00:51:07.620 --> 00:51:09.520
No, it could be, you know,

00:51:09.560 --> 00:51:17.500
he asks her friends or he you know gives her a hypothetical about what if you know someone else

00:51:17.740 --> 00:51:23.800
were i i don't know i mean i'm sure i'm or just he knows that she loves diamonds i mean i i don't

00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:31.540
know and in a way i think the ambiguity of it saved it a little bit because it could just be

00:51:31.540 --> 00:51:38.500
the doctor you know not knowing what she's going to say at all but just saying what he thinks

00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:46.080
is going to be the most encouraging so that he'll go away you know he will he'll go he'll go away or

00:51:46.510 --> 00:51:52.860
you know that he will go ahead and go ahead with the proposal you know because he wants to encourage

00:51:53.060 --> 00:52:01.580
him to give it a try I don't know um yeah I did I didn't I didn't particularly like I didn't I

00:52:01.640 --> 00:52:08.040
didn't like that but i prefer i preferred the nonsense with the screwdriver to the doctor

00:52:08.640 --> 00:52:14.320
knowing what is going to happen yeah it's just odd that you put it at the opposite ends of the

00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:20.020
spectrum in this particular episode about what it can and cannot do it's gotta have screws but

00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:27.240
unless it's a diamond i know i know the sonic it's just odd that they would call that out

00:52:27.660 --> 00:52:31.700
especially when it's been well established that what the sonic doesn't work on is wood

00:52:32.260 --> 00:52:39.300
and it was a wooden door yes that's the that's the other but okay yeah he should have he should

00:52:39.330 --> 00:52:42.960
have maybe it's because it's a different universe difference yeah you should have paid attention

00:52:43.150 --> 00:52:49.060
he should watch the day of the doctor again yeah but you know watch the day of the doctor again

00:52:49.600 --> 00:52:56.520
many times learn something from it we all should we all should but what i wanted to ask you about

00:52:56.540 --> 00:53:07.840
was the gloves because the sonic i'm used to but the gloves that's like an extra egregious piece

00:53:07.930 --> 00:53:15.800
of magic technology yes it was i i not you know it not only was it an egregious piece of magic

00:53:16.060 --> 00:53:21.880
technology at least the way he explained it whatever you want to call that as an explanation

00:53:22.620 --> 00:53:32.340
but to then turn around and say and if you reverse it you you weigh more i just didn't it didn't make

00:53:32.500 --> 00:53:41.180
any sense that the gloves increase it just didn't make any sense it did it you're right it didn't

00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:46.940
make any sense and the annoying thing about it is that you know that the reason for having the gloves

00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:52.980
in the first place was so that they could be reversed because you could have solved the

00:53:53.440 --> 00:54:01.780
let's climb up the ladder bit by just climbing up the ladder i mean up the ladder yes yes yes it was

00:54:02.160 --> 00:54:08.980
yeah um speaking of the ladder i thought you know in a generally well done technically episode i

00:54:09.100 --> 00:54:15.000
think the scene where the doctor leaps onto the ladder looks terrible yeah it just it looks wrong

00:54:15.540 --> 00:54:22.080
and unfortunately they showed that like a million times in all the trailers and whatnot but it just

00:54:22.380 --> 00:54:29.120
it does not look like the doctor leaped over and grabbed onto that ladder no it's a tough one to

00:54:29.260 --> 00:54:35.860
say yeah i suspected i suspect it is a tough one to do but it just it didn't it didn't work um

00:54:36.640 --> 00:54:44.060
one thing i want to mention about the character of the doctor is there were a couple times in

00:54:44.080 --> 00:54:50.700
this episode where he made i don't know it felt like questionable decisions to me when ruby

00:54:51.940 --> 00:54:59.700
disappeared did carla still know who he was why would he even be in the room sherry neither carla

00:54:59.700 --> 00:55:05.940
nor cherry seem to be worried about a strange man standing in their house no but in a way in a way i

00:55:06.040 --> 00:55:11.880
don't think that's necessarily an effect of the situation so much as an effect of the way in which

00:55:11.900 --> 00:55:19.540
the timelines resolved because in in one sense kind of proper properly deterministic approach

00:55:19.660 --> 00:55:26.280
to that change should result in the doctor not being in the house anyway because the reason he's

00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:32.540
in the house is because of ruby and if ruby but he's immune hadn't been there well it well exactly

00:55:32.980 --> 00:55:40.760
but then as the timelines write themselves then how how is that experienced from carla's point of

00:55:40.780 --> 00:55:48.660
you uh i don't i don't quite know i don't know what point he appears and yeah and well he's he's

00:55:48.700 --> 00:55:53.320
in the house with him and he's he's running up and down talking about stuff and they're like

00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:59.480
is that the first they see of him because because wouldn't he know would would he not already have

00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:03.780
come into that isn't there isn't there a bit of an alternate timeline that we haven't seen

00:56:04.220 --> 00:56:17.920
And if there isn't, if there is a sudden kind of mashing of the two timelines, then maybe there's something about the way those timelines merge that, you know, the
people involved in it just can't conceive of what's going on.

00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:26.280
They have to rationalize why suddenly there is a man in the house because he's not just appeared in the normal sense.

00:56:26.900 --> 00:56:28.760
He's come from a different timeline.

00:56:29.640 --> 00:56:33.140
So he leaves the house and then he comes back in.

00:56:33.240 --> 00:56:40.400
what does he do he has to break in all the way with the sonic that was weird i mean that's a

00:56:40.490 --> 00:56:46.680
choice yes that's a choice he just ran into somebody's house who may not recognize him two

00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:52.280
old women who and he's a strange man barging into breaking into their house and running up and down

00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:57.360
and ranting i that was an odd choice and here's another one that i thought was a really odd choice

00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:03.820
he saves the woman with the pram from the snowman falling on her which apparently wouldn't have been

00:57:03.980 --> 00:57:12.460
fatal anyway but okay she saves the woman he saves the woman with a pram and then he gets bonked on

00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:18.080
the head but he's fine and he pops out and what is the first thing he does he complains at her

00:57:18.680 --> 00:57:25.940
walking a baby at midnight it's like how about are you all right uh or and and the woman well

00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:32.420
she's obviously all right but yeah and confronted by a man who just saved her life but then pops

00:57:32.430 --> 00:57:38.700
out and complains about her she's she's you know are you all right and there's no thank you for

00:57:39.160 --> 00:57:47.320
saving my life there's no gratitude there there's just look i'm buying my groceries out my shopping

00:57:47.860 --> 00:57:54.040
it's an odd scene the doctor doesn't come off well the woman doesn't come off well nobody comes off

00:57:54.080 --> 00:57:59.060
well in that scene and i asked myself the question if she hadn't been pushing a pram does that mean

00:57:59.060 --> 00:58:03.500
the doctor wouldn't have saved her because he seems he seems genuinely upset that she was not

00:58:03.640 --> 00:58:10.740
pushing a baby you know i mean i wasted this effort you it doesn't come off right the odd

00:58:10.830 --> 00:58:17.500
the oddest thing about that is that he's surprised at her pushing a cram at that time of night and i

00:58:17.520 --> 00:58:24.280
you know i say that as someone who's not a parent but i know you do i know with kids that

00:58:24.860 --> 00:58:30.320
if if they don't sleep and what they need is to be pushed around then that's what you do you know

00:58:31.040 --> 00:58:37.360
yes my kids had to be put in a car and driven around and that's what you do even if it's one

00:58:37.460 --> 00:58:42.360
in the morning but exactly drop them in the car seat you drive them around the town you just do

00:58:42.860 --> 00:58:49.520
so it's just odd that that was just the first thought out of his out of his mind was you know

00:58:50.300 --> 00:58:55.580
it's like i did this because you had a baby and it's like no the doctor would have done that for

00:58:55.900 --> 00:59:01.880
anybody the doctor would have done that if it was a you know if it was a stray cat on the street he

00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:08.540
had done it if it was one of the goblins you know but yeah i don't know it's just it's just odd um

00:59:09.120 --> 00:59:14.960
it's just it's just odd um part of the reason why this character doesn't quite i don't know

00:59:15.040 --> 00:59:22.040
it's still not quite he doesn't come off as it comes off as forced but also wrong there and not

00:59:22.090 --> 00:59:29.240
wrong in an explainable way yeah just from a set design kind of thing uh wow that is a hell of a

00:59:29.240 --> 00:59:36.380
big apartment that those people have it's like it's about a mile long yeah it does not it also

00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:41.900
does not fit spatially with what we saw so you know the doctor came up comes up the stairs the

00:59:41.980 --> 00:59:49.240
stairs are on one side and then her apartment is off on one side of it and so that means it's only

00:59:49.580 --> 00:59:57.160
half the width of the building that they're in but okay so let's say it's running the entire length

00:59:57.340 --> 01:00:02.060
maybe it's running over all the other people underneath them kind of like in the star beast

01:00:02.060 --> 01:00:03.800
where the doctor was breaking through the walls.

01:00:04.040 --> 01:00:05.900
Maybe they've taken that apartment

01:00:06.250 --> 01:00:08.000
and they've knocked out the attic

01:00:08.070 --> 01:00:10.320
and they've stretched it the entire length,

01:00:10.720 --> 01:00:11.920
which is why it's an odd shape,

01:00:12.010 --> 01:00:13.000
but it's very large.

01:00:13.620 --> 01:00:16.520
But it's still only half of the building left to right,

01:00:17.020 --> 01:00:18.240
or see what I'm saying?

01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:19.400
Not lengthwise, widthwise.

01:00:19.540 --> 01:00:21.860
It's only because of the way the steps work

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:23.440
and the way the doctor entered the building.

01:00:24.200 --> 01:00:27.460
And then we see Ruby go up through the window

01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:28.880
on the ceiling,

01:00:29.630 --> 01:00:31.300
and we know how big that room,

01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:33.620
houses because they were standing on it.

01:00:33.990 --> 01:00:35.840
It just doesn't look like it fits.

01:00:36.290 --> 01:00:37.400
So, you know, it's a TARDIS.

01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:41.320
But other than that,

01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:44.940
I don't know that I have anything else.

01:00:45.340 --> 01:00:48.600
I already mentioned Doctor hanging out with teenage girls,

01:00:49.060 --> 01:00:51.040
and I have just one note,

01:00:51.240 --> 01:00:53.120
intelligent gloves at the last here at the end,

01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:56.460
which we've already touched on.

01:00:56.490 --> 01:00:58.920
It's like, please stop with that.

01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:01.200
Please, please stop with that RTD.

01:01:01.860 --> 01:01:09.540
make the doctor solve his problems with his brain not i i i don't i i don't have anything about the

01:01:09.720 --> 01:01:16.340
episode um either i do i do have a question um because i think you watched this on disney plus

01:01:17.010 --> 01:01:23.400
did you get a doctor who will return in 2024 message on the screen doesn't sound like after

01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:30.421
the credits after the credits after after the it was after it was after it was wasn't at the end of

01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:36.360
the credits it was after the credit started you presumably got the credit started after the doctor

01:01:36.500 --> 01:01:43.380
says new home new new new new place new home new something or other like that and then it fell back

01:01:43.560 --> 01:01:50.560
to mrs flood talking to the camera yeah but but then you roll the credits and there was nothing

01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:57.880
there was nothing else no i i just i just want it it's that thing we had the big writing last time

01:01:57.900 --> 01:02:01.920
that I disliked and now it's Doctor Who Will Return in 2024.

01:02:03.260 --> 01:02:07.780
It's something about the way in which Russell T. Davis

01:02:08.040 --> 01:02:12.440
wants the show to feel very current.

01:02:12.980 --> 01:02:15.000
It's, you know, last time he had,

01:02:15.210 --> 01:02:17.540
I mean, it's part of having Davina McCall in it, I think.

01:02:17.600 --> 01:02:18.940
Last time he had Davina McCall in it

01:02:18.940 --> 01:02:20.400
was because he was doing the send-up

01:02:20.410 --> 01:02:21.620
of the Big Brother and everything.

01:02:22.270 --> 01:02:25.680
And it was very much in the television of the moment.

01:02:26.500 --> 01:02:44.240
But one of the things that seems odd about doing this now is that, I mean, I mean, already they they've had to kind of change the version of the episodes that get released
onto the home media for some of these things compared to the version that gets transmitted.

01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:47.560
But now it's actually going straight on to streaming.

01:02:47.780 --> 01:02:50.840
It's, you know, they're mindful of the fact it's going on to iPlayer.

01:02:51.300 --> 01:02:52.480
It's going on to Disney Plus.

01:02:53.260 --> 01:03:02.140
So to have a message saying Doctor Who will return in 2024 in an episode that pretty soon people are going to be watching in 2024.

01:03:02.700 --> 01:03:03.880
I mean, lots of people are going to be watching.

01:03:04.819 --> 01:03:07.560
And in years to come, they will be watching it.

01:03:07.690 --> 01:03:12.420
You know, they're going to have to change the version of the episode that they put on there.

01:03:13.060 --> 01:03:15.160
And I mean, I think they'll just drop that.

01:03:15.730 --> 01:03:16.900
I think they'll just drop that.

01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:18.420
I think they'll just cut it out.

01:03:18.500 --> 01:03:37.300
I'm sure they will, but I wondered why it was such an important thing to include that within the kind of on-screen presentation, rather than, as you say, it could be
after the end of the credits, or it could be a, you know, for the BBC One broadcast, it could be a continuity announcer or whatever.

01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:44.300
I never liked the way they did the next time trailers on during the RTD era, particularly.

01:03:45.100 --> 01:03:48.560
I always hated the trailer before the credits.

01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:49.640
Yes.

01:03:50.340 --> 01:03:50.660
No, no, no.

01:03:50.780 --> 01:03:51.880
I hated that.

01:03:52.220 --> 01:03:54.820
But now, of course, we're in this slightly weird thing.

01:03:54.830 --> 01:03:57.200
If they don't have a next time trailer at all.

01:03:57.880 --> 01:03:59.640
If you want to see what's up on YouTube.

01:04:00.240 --> 01:04:00.340
Yeah.

01:04:00.860 --> 01:04:01.220
Yeah, indeed.

01:04:01.460 --> 01:04:03.580
You've got to go and you've got to go and look for it.

01:04:03.980 --> 01:04:15.240
So I wondered if we should just spend a moment discussing that, the kind of 55 seconds of what's going to be in so-called season one or actual season 40.

01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:18.100
Yeah, we could.

01:04:18.560 --> 01:04:19.900
I watched it once.

01:04:19.900 --> 01:04:23.460
I thought, oh, God, that was my response.

01:04:23.670 --> 01:04:24.320
Oh, God.

01:04:24.380 --> 01:04:30.240
I mean, I want to watch it sooner rather than later.

01:04:30.290 --> 01:04:34.680
And I suspect it will be earlier in the year.

01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:35.900
It's May.

01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:37.720
I think it's been announced.

01:04:38.130 --> 01:04:38.460
Do we know?

01:04:38.770 --> 01:04:39.220
Do we know?

01:04:40.020 --> 01:04:41.800
Oh, that's much later than I expected.

01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:45.640
Maybe that's because it's only going to be eight episodes or so.

01:04:46.680 --> 01:04:48.120
Because they wouldn't run it over the summer.

01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:50.500
But I guess May, June then.

01:04:51.200 --> 01:04:57.580
I mean, one of the things I wondered was, is it going back to the old template where you have, you know, an episode in the future, an episode in the past?

01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:06.260
We've obviously got a period episode there, although the Beatles episodes obviously in the past and I didn't really see.

01:05:06.550 --> 01:05:12.180
There was some spaceshipy corridor thing, but there was also a fair bit of present day stuff.

01:05:13.060 --> 01:05:16.240
I want an explanation how shooty's hair grows in and out.

01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:22.840
Well, I think that's all part of the radical costume changing.

01:05:23.970 --> 01:05:26.400
One thing, and actually this does come back to the episode,

01:05:26.950 --> 01:05:29.740
it is one thing I just wanted to mention about it,

01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:31.080
and I forgot to make a note,

01:05:31.660 --> 01:05:35.720
was that this episode felt very much,

01:05:36.340 --> 01:05:39.980
and you mentioned the fact we talked about the various Doctor's first episodes,

01:05:40.030 --> 01:05:41.640
and I think when we talked about the Giggle,

01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:46.960
I questioned whether this would count as Gatwa's first episode,

01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:49.380
because he gets 20 minutes in the giggle.

01:05:49.600 --> 01:05:51.960
It's a substantial piece of performance.

01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:58.300
But almost always the first episode for a doctor involves some,

01:05:59.580 --> 01:06:03.760
even Rose, the doctor is looking in a mirror and inspecting his new ears.

01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:09.220
It involves some kind of allusion to the fact that he is new in his body.

01:06:09.660 --> 01:06:12.920
There is no allusion to the fact that he's new in his body in this episode.

01:06:13.660 --> 01:06:22.740
Now, it feels like he's had, you know, I don't know if this is just leaving a big gap for big finish, but it feels like he's had a bunch of adventures.

01:06:23.600 --> 01:06:29.160
He certainly had time to completely redesign his sonic screwdriver yet again.

01:06:29.740 --> 01:06:33.940
Yeah, but the TARDIS just pops those out like tic-tacs, you know.

01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:36.720
Well, I mean, it could be that it could.

01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:39.640
And I don't suppose they're going to nail it down.

01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:51.100
It's just, to me, it had the feel of he's already had time to kind of get used to his new self, that he's maybe made a few trips already.

01:06:52.400 --> 01:07:00.820
And so what's new about this is more, it's new Ruby rather than new incarnation of the Doctor.

01:07:01.380 --> 01:07:02.160
That's the feel.

01:07:02.180 --> 01:07:04.660
I mean, obviously for us, it is a new incarnation of the Doctor.

01:07:05.260 --> 01:07:06.200
But I don't know.

01:07:06.240 --> 01:07:09.180
I just, I kind of felt that I quite liked that.

01:07:09.900 --> 01:07:24.340
So for all the things that I hated about the giggle, the fact that it sort of got that new doctor bit out of the way so that we can pick up the story, maybe for him, a few
adventures down the line.

01:07:25.120 --> 01:07:27.800
It was quite an interesting feel and I liked it.

01:07:28.300 --> 01:07:41.040
As we said, you know, when we're discussing the change in costume from Whitaker to Tennant and that RTD just said, you know, I just didn't want to waste any time on up on a
costume change scene.

01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:46.240
It's like I as we rightly pointed out and I'll still stand by this.

01:07:46.240 --> 01:07:48.180
He could have just been in her clothes.

01:07:48.980 --> 01:07:53.200
And then the next time we see him, he arrives and he's wearing a new outfit because he's changed clothes.

01:07:53.560 --> 01:07:56.220
We don't need to see the doctor change clothes every time.

01:07:56.540 --> 01:08:07.500
And I can understand when you have a limited amount of screen time and we have, you know, gone, we have gone down an awful lot of screen time for a season of Doctor Who since
its heyday.

01:08:08.380 --> 01:08:16.240
And you don't have maybe time to waste on a musical number while they futz around picking their tie.

01:08:16.759 --> 01:08:17.180
Got that.

01:08:17.799 --> 01:08:18.620
He's already done that.

01:08:20.540 --> 01:08:23.600
And I don't I don't disagree with that.

01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:24.960
It's it's not necessary.

01:08:25.100 --> 01:08:32.859
It's a fun bit of Doctor Who history and a nod to it here and there maybe, but you don't need to make a big production out of it.

01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:39.600
The one that I can truly understand is not making a big production out of regeneration trauma.

01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:47.859
It doesn't need to be an entire story of the Doctor fighting, you know, with his falling apart.

01:08:48.400 --> 01:08:52.020
These things, they're different from one regeneration to the next.

01:08:52.120 --> 01:08:56.040
This could be just like, yeah, I had a headache for a few hours and then I was fine.

01:08:56.500 --> 01:09:02.500
And it serves a certain purpose because, I mean, I imagine you're thinking of Castrovalva.

01:09:04.089 --> 01:09:06.120
And that was the point of the story, part of it.

01:09:06.569 --> 01:09:08.640
It was part of the point of the story.

01:09:08.690 --> 01:09:12.140
And it was also partly because Tom Baker had been the doctor for seven years.

01:09:13.320 --> 01:09:17.940
And I think there was a greater need to mark that in some way.

01:09:18.500 --> 01:09:30.720
I also think if you look at the Christmas invasion, the kind of trauma basically knocks the doctor out of it for half and half the episode or whatever it is, possibly even
more.

01:09:31.029 --> 01:09:36.180
But that's because we've got Rose, who we are familiar with, who is the viewer's proxy.

01:09:37.339 --> 01:09:41.180
And so it's her coming to terms with the change of the doctor.

01:09:41.230 --> 01:09:44.520
And I think, right, again, I think I quite like that.

01:09:45.040 --> 01:10:06.280
But what I think works well in this instance, and, you know, as you say, no particular reason why you have to have the regeneration trauma and dispensing with it here
allows you to kind of slick that switch over to we're actually getting most of the initial part of the story from Ruby's perspective.

01:10:07.040 --> 01:10:10.020
And the doctor is kind of flitting in and out of the story.

01:10:10.980 --> 01:10:12.660
You know, it's not focused on him.

01:10:12.660 --> 01:10:13.140
Exactly like Rose.

01:10:14.480 --> 01:10:15.500
Exactly like Rose.

01:10:15.850 --> 01:10:16.040
Yeah.

01:10:16.540 --> 01:10:20.380
It is, in many ways, a retread of Rose.

01:10:21.080 --> 01:10:25.500
Except in Rose, Rose spent more time pursuing the mystery of the Doctor.

01:10:26.320 --> 01:10:26.480
Yes.

01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:28.180
That does not happen in this episode.

01:10:29.020 --> 01:10:29.140
No.

01:10:30.820 --> 01:10:40.580
It is part of that odd structure that just kind of, we waste more time watching Ruby hang out in clubs and play in a band and whatnot.

01:10:41.500 --> 01:10:42.720
So, I don't know.

01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:44.300
It's uneven.

01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:51.100
it's uneven um i don't have anything else to you no that's it that's it for dr who twins 23

01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:58.820
i can and i think i can say what in a very rare circumstance and next time it's bugs nuclear

01:10:59.360 --> 01:11:08.820
family so anyway simon thank you for joining me it's a pleasure as always and listers i do hope

01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:18.020
you'll join us all again next time on Fusion Patrol. You've been listening to Fusion Patrol.

01:11:18.740 --> 01:11:24.440
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01:11:31.560 --> 01:11:36.180
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