WEBVTT 00:00:10.040 --> 00:00:15.940 you're listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast each week we take a single 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:22.020 episode of a science fiction tv series movie or audio and overanalyze it to within an inch 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.280 of its life welcome to the discussion 00:00:31.360 --> 00:00:36.820 hello and welcome to another episode of fusion patrol i'm eugene and i'm simon and tonight we 00:00:36.820 --> 00:00:45.240 are looking at the doctor who's 60th anniversary special number two the wild blue yonder or 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:49.460 actually i just think wild blue yonder i don't think there's a though there i think you're right 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:50.900 before we get going, 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:57.140 I just want to do a little bit of housekeeping because it's very rare that a 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:02.640 Fusion Patrol episode and it's recording and its release are nearly 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:03.280 contemporaneous. 00:01:03.980 --> 00:01:09.600 So I just wanted to say that you can find out more about this on 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:10.720 fusion patrol.com. 00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:12.960 I've started a weekly, 00:01:13.900 --> 00:01:17.860 hopefully blog post called patrolling beyond fusion, 00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:19.560 where it's kind of behind the scenes 00:01:20.659 --> 00:01:23.700 and you can kind of get some other thoughts 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:24.740 on what's going on around here. 00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:27.860 And it's also an opportunity to get some thoughts 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:29.940 in on some of the shows as we're recording them 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:31.340 rather than after. 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:33.180 After you've heard what we had to say. 00:01:33.700 --> 00:01:35.760 So it would be thoughts about the shows, wouldn't it? 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:38.940 But so that's at FusionPatrol.com. 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.560 We're also now on the Fediverse, 00:01:43.160 --> 00:01:45.900 which you probably hear called Mastodon. 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:47.780 If you know what that is, you know where it is. 00:01:47.900 --> 00:01:55.680 And you can find us at podcast at Fusion Patrol dot com and all our posts and stuff will be there. 00:01:55.900 --> 00:02:01.120 And and we're still getting that worked out, but it's live and it's it's a thing. 00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:02.880 And the last thing is a correction. 00:02:03.100 --> 00:02:13.960 I believe that on the last episode, I believe we did mention that I thought I thought that the name of the Christmas special was Church of Ruby Rose. 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:19.280 I got that in all good faith off the internet through someone who got it through Disney+. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:21.220 It has now been announced. 00:02:21.430 --> 00:02:28.300 It is Christmas Day, and it is the church on Ruby Road, not Church of Ruby Rose, which 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:34.100 just thankfully, because I was just thinking, geez, RTD, cut it out with the Rose stuff. 00:02:34.739 --> 00:02:38.840 Anyway, so let's get on with the episode, Wild Blue Yonder. 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:40.420 Episode synopsis. 00:02:41.420 --> 00:02:48.560 Careening out of control due to the TARDIS's stupid design choice of a coffee maker on the console and Donna's gross ineptitude, 00:02:48.780 --> 00:02:52.960 the TARDIS crash lands on a spacecraft in the middle of nothing. 00:02:53.560 --> 00:03:02.620 The spaceship is seemingly empty, yet the TARDIS's head system nonetheless senses danger and displaces itself until the danger is over, 00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:05.060 leaving the Doctor and Donna stranded. 00:03:05.760 --> 00:03:11.600 Although the ship's systems confirm that there are no life forms aboard, the Doctor and Donna meet doppelgangers of themselves. 00:03:12.460 --> 00:03:17.020 These are formless not-things from the nothingness beyond the edge of the universe. 00:03:17.980 --> 00:03:28.600 Their plan? Duplicate the Doctor and Donna perfectly, then take possession of the TARDIS, where they shall journey into the universe, and be problematic, presumably. 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:34.500 the doctor discovers the pilot of the ship killed herself three years ago but why and why is the 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:40.000 ship in the middle of a very very slow countdown when the doctor figures that out it's time to 00:03:40.180 --> 00:03:44.560 speed up the countdown to the self-destruction of the ship destroying the not things in the process 00:03:45.100 --> 00:03:50.660 the TARDIS returns in the nick of time and saves the doctor and Donna they return to earth to find 00:03:50.740 --> 00:03:56.939 wilf waiting at a world gone bad and I feel that synopsis may have been longer than it needed to be 00:03:57.180 --> 00:04:00.260 Just so wild blue yonder. 00:04:00.640 --> 00:04:02.780 Were you as disappointed as I was? 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.720 Well, I wasn't expecting the 14 doctors. 00:04:07.480 --> 00:04:09.980 I wasn't even hoping for the 14 doctors. 00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:14.280 So I'm guessing I probably wasn't. 00:04:14.920 --> 00:04:15.920 Oh, no, no, no, no. 00:04:16.440 --> 00:04:19.120 I wasn't disappointed because it wasn't the 14 doctors. 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:26.060 I was just disappointed because this felt like we've got 13 episodes and we need a couple fillers in the middle. 00:04:26.640 --> 00:04:33.400 and this is it and instead we only have three episodes with with these two and we didn't need 00:04:33.400 --> 00:04:42.240 a filler that's why i'm disappointed i like filler and i have been trying to puzzle why i found this 00:04:42.440 --> 00:04:51.459 episode unsatisfying i didn't hate it but i didn't hate it i i guess i was disappointed by it and i 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:59.800 think part of that is a sense that this it is partly a sense that this kind of 60th anniversary 00:05:00.320 --> 00:05:08.100 thing should I guess have a bit more drive to it and the RTD has somehow created a a mini season 00:05:08.660 --> 00:05:12.660 where you know you've got the opening episode with all the plot and then you've got the episodes in 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:17.499 the middle of the season where they go off and do things and then the kind of finale where you draw 00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:23.360 altogether the the plots the arc strands that have been chuntering along uh in the background 00:05:23.520 --> 00:05:27.320 of them of the episodes in the middle except the episodes in the middle are one episode and it's 00:05:27.340 --> 00:05:32.460 this episode yep and it doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the episodes either side 00:05:32.580 --> 00:05:39.620 of it and that that that's in the middle of a series i think i would enjoy this a bit more 00:05:40.100 --> 00:05:46.619 i've got a caveat about that but i but i think i would but in this position it it makes it it makes 00:05:46.640 --> 00:05:53.540 it more problematic it it actually reminded me a bit of um i don't know if you remember uh in 00:05:53.980 --> 00:06:00.140 in big finishes audio series with uh charlie pollard traveling with paul mcgann's doctor 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:08.460 and um towards the end of that series there's i don't want to give any spoilers to those who 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:12.579 haven't heard it but there's quite a major development in a trilogy that begins with 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:18.700 patient zero uh paper cuts and then wild blue yonder finish out that trilogy and paper cuts 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.960 is literally just treading water there's nothing wrong with the story but i cannot listen to it 00:06:23.960 --> 00:06:29.920 and enjoy it because of the aspects of the trilogy that are in there but which don't get developed 00:06:30.570 --> 00:06:36.219 did you say wild blue yonder yonder was the third episode of that i did say wild beyond but i didn't 00:06:36.260 --> 00:06:42.680 mean wild blue yonder i mean oh wild blue it's not it's not even wild is it it's blue planet 00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:49.860 okay something blue planet sorry i'm now the fact that wild blue yonder has got into my head 00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:55.820 i'm also confused by the fact that the doctor started going on about the wide blue yonder in 00:06:55.890 --> 00:07:05.259 the underwater menace so i'm i'm a bit muddled but you're not the only one uh yeah i i i really 00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:06.340 I just feel kind of cheated. 00:07:06.700 --> 00:07:09.300 I feel like this was a squandered episode. 00:07:09.540 --> 00:07:10.560 It's not that it's bad. 00:07:11.700 --> 00:07:13.020 I have some things about it. 00:07:13.070 --> 00:07:17.400 I have caveats, as you do, that I am deeply concerned about. 00:07:18.620 --> 00:07:20.760 They didn't hate it or anything. 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:24.920 But when I watched Star Beast, I sat down and I said, 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.040 I'm going to watch this and I'm going to enjoy it. 00:07:27.400 --> 00:07:28.460 And I'm not going to take notes. 00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:29.700 And I did. 00:07:30.280 --> 00:07:31.980 And that was on a Saturday. 00:07:32.280 --> 00:07:36.600 And then on Sunday, now I'm going to sit down and I'm going to watch this and I'm going to take notes. 00:07:37.300 --> 00:07:38.480 And I watched it and I took notes. 00:07:39.719 --> 00:07:41.400 And so that we could talk on Monday. 00:07:41.540 --> 00:07:43.320 Now, in this case, this one came out on Saturday. 00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:44.480 I sat down to enjoy it. 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:45.320 Not going to take notes. 00:07:45.740 --> 00:07:48.520 When I got to the end of it, I said, I should have taken notes. 00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:52.180 And I hastily jotted down my notes because I'm not going to watch it again. 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:55.620 It just wasn't worth watching again now. 00:07:56.060 --> 00:08:06.200 interesting because i i did not feel like watching it again and when i when i re-watched patient uh 00:08:06.440 --> 00:08:13.040 patient zero god i really am getting confused star beast i'm i'm my brain is congested when i 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:20.919 watched the star beast thank you i i wanted to watch it again i i was i was keen to you know i 00:08:20.940 --> 00:08:22.180 I'd enjoyed watching it. 00:08:22.180 --> 00:08:23.480 There were a lot of strands in there. 00:08:23.510 --> 00:08:30.520 I was keen to think about what I'd seen kind of with my expectations adjusted, 00:08:31.430 --> 00:08:33.620 having waited a whole year for this thing to come along. 00:08:35.060 --> 00:08:37.960 I'm not quite sure my expectations of this one were, 00:08:38.640 --> 00:08:44.080 but I do think that in some sense, this whole 60th anniversary thing, 00:08:44.740 --> 00:08:51.840 my expectations were not just that we would get a miniature version of the, 00:08:52.890 --> 00:08:57.840 what would it be, 2008 season, which is kind of what this feels like. 00:08:58.680 --> 00:09:03.500 It's almost like there has been no development. 00:09:03.630 --> 00:09:08.640 And I know it's a bit odd to say that when it explicitly mentions the flux 00:09:08.710 --> 00:09:09.940 and the Timeless Child stuff. 00:09:10.660 --> 00:09:24.900 But I think one of the things about actual genuine filler episodes are that when you're in the process of watching a kind of an ongoing run of a show, 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:32.040 you've maybe got a new doctor or you've got a new companion or a new doctor companion pairing. 00:09:32.920 --> 00:09:38.880 And part of what you're watching is how do these people interact with each other? 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.140 And what's, you know, what's this new companion like? 00:09:42.210 --> 00:09:45.680 Or what's the Doctor's character now? 00:09:45.920 --> 00:09:50.420 These little things come out in little drips and draps. 00:09:51.000 --> 00:10:01.360 And it's quite, I think it's a more important part of watching those filler episodes than I had previously realised. 00:10:01.760 --> 00:10:08.760 because watching this it's like because it's the doctor and donna and we've kind of had their story 00:10:08.780 --> 00:10:16.320 and we know all about them and even even in terms of kind of filling in the missing 15 years 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:22.940 it's kind of pretty much donna info dumped all of that in the star beast and well we know what 00:10:23.040 --> 00:10:26.539 happened to the doctor in the missing years because we've been watching the show thousands 00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:34.900 of years yeah so i mean a lot going on between i i don't know if i'll watch this again you know in a 00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:41.080 few months time or whatever and feel i've i've misjudged it but it it feels like there isn't a 00:10:41.180 --> 00:10:47.400 lot going on between the characters does that seem odd yeah it seems exactly how i interpreted it i 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:50.480 mean they were just okay so they were a little comfortable with each other and they were having 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:56.520 a little bit of talk talk but which you know is not necessarily bad but i tell you what the other 00:10:56.540 --> 00:11:03.420 thing about this episode that really was weird to me is that during the first i don't know 10 15 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:09.920 minutes once they started exploring the ship i thought there's a lot of this is really well 00:11:11.180 --> 00:11:20.180 constructed to build tension and what the heck is going on in this ship i definitely was like 00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:29.900 drawn into the mystery the problem was as it kept going on and on and on it could no longer hold 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:36.700 that and so it was a it was a letdown within itself as well because it felt like it had really 00:11:36.700 --> 00:11:43.680 good promise up front and then it it it didn't deliver and the other thing that i'll just say 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:51.840 that is a strike against this episode to me is that this show well first off let's just say this 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:57.500 was not the episode to lead number two when you're trying to introduce dr who to a whole new audience 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:03.960 right for disney worldwide it's like number one was a pretty darn good episode number two 00:12:04.560 --> 00:12:10.000 and so not i'm gonna i'm gonna definitely disagree with that you don't think that the 00:12:10.020 --> 00:12:14.960 first one was any good either for introducing i mean i i i thought the first one was great 00:12:15.540 --> 00:12:23.780 and i have been watching both of these with not we's and their reaction is much more positive 00:12:23.910 --> 00:12:31.500 than mine okay including to this episode so i i think there is a strong element of our 00:12:32.180 --> 00:12:37.680 expectations around this and i think if you don't know the characters if you don't know the doctor 00:12:37.700 --> 00:12:43.960 and Donna maybe some of what you know those interactions there are partly to kind of 00:12:44.680 --> 00:12:49.620 reintroduce all of that stuff to the to the audience the problem I think is that doesn't 00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:53.360 serve two masters very well because you know you've got to do that for the new audience but 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:59.300 the old audience they already know the doctor and Donna and the only the only reward you're 00:12:59.400 --> 00:13:05.060 getting from this is the kind of nostalgia hit that you know to be fair is quite satisfying but 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:11.900 it is also something i could get by just putting on any of my dvds from that year's episodes 00:13:12.900 --> 00:13:17.640 there is a movie well this is a tangent but okay we'll go with it there is a movie that i will 00:13:17.800 --> 00:13:24.200 probably never go see uh despite the fact that when i heard the premise of it i really was kind 00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:32.980 of like that that appeals to something that bothers the heck out of me about adventure movies 00:13:33.020 --> 00:13:38.960 let's say and that is i guess it's david dachovny and meg ryan i don't know the name of the film 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:44.540 but they're two ex-lovers who are stranded in an airport after they've been broken up for 00:13:45.020 --> 00:13:51.380 30 years or something and they've got lives and they meet they meet up and discuss the past and 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:56.680 what might have been and what wasn't was and and whatnot and that itself doesn't exactly appeal to 00:13:56.680 --> 00:14:01.660 me what i hate is adventure films where two people bump into each other fall in love at the end of 00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:06.020 the film you know they live happily ever after and i would love to see any of those couples 30 00:14:06.060 --> 00:14:14.020 years later because you know they didn't and then they went on to have lives and i i like the concept 00:14:14.660 --> 00:14:22.400 of catching up and so i guess maybe for viewers who did not watch the old doctor who maybe this 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:28.740 sort of the doctor and donna old friends getting back together and kind of reminiscing a little bit 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:35.640 might work. I don't know. It didn't exactly work for me, but okay. I'll, I'll take the idea that, 00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:40.760 that maybe the concept go. Now, what the other part that I wanted to say that this film, 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:49.140 this episode did confirm my worst fears about Disney and the money. And that is, I absolutely 00:14:49.360 --> 00:15:02.280 detest the distorting blobby blob morphy morph cg crap in this and any film i just think it no 00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:06.880 matter how well they do it i think it looks terrible and it just looks like you're throwing 00:15:07.100 --> 00:15:14.200 money at the screen to no good effect and it's like oh uh they episode two and they're already 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:25.480 go into one of my pet peeves like so i didn't like that but and and now i'm worried that they 00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:33.680 are going to be throwing fx at the story unnecessarily but on the catching up with the 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:41.200 old old characters who you've met before i i i like that i mean i i enjoyed it in power of the 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:47.600 doctor where we got to see ace and tegan even though i felt that there was certain gratuitous 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:53.100 writing over all this big finish stuff and i did i mean i did quite like the fact that in the star 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:58.020 beast we got to catch up with what has happened to donna over the last 15 years it's just i guess 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:03.680 this feels more more like something like a a reset and it's partly because it is 00:16:04.180 --> 00:16:13.260 Russell T Davies doing it he's he's just picked up his own story from back then and he's kind of 00:16:14.020 --> 00:16:20.400 slid back into where it's what Catherine Tate has described as getting the band back together again 00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:29.320 it is it is like you know these these bands that go around and they know that the audiences just 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:36.280 want to hear them play the classic material so that's what they do and i i kind of not going to 00:16:36.400 --> 00:16:41.360 retread the old ground i talked about how this kind of felt a bit big finishy last time but 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:48.560 just yeah on that i i because i'm not knocking big finish i really enjoy big finish but actually 00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:55.740 i was thinking the ones i really enjoy the most are the ones with colin baker or sylvester mccoy 00:16:55.800 --> 00:17:03.920 or Paul McGann, where they're doing something that extends the character and develops it and 00:17:04.120 --> 00:17:10.199 takes it into situations that we have not seen before. And actually, I enjoy less the ones with 00:17:10.600 --> 00:17:20.420 Tom Baker or David Tennant, where they seem to be much more focused on recreating a style of story 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:23.939 that just exactly fits into their era. 00:17:24.589 --> 00:17:27.160 And the premise that we've got here 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:30.160 doesn't require them to fit a story into the era. 00:17:30.190 --> 00:17:32.560 There could be kind of development here, 00:17:32.590 --> 00:17:35.720 but I don't think that's what this is about. 00:17:35.910 --> 00:17:40.740 I think that's partly as a result of it being a 60th anniversary special. 00:17:40.810 --> 00:17:43.020 And again, I think it's expectations, 00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:46.020 but having Donna pop up in it, 00:17:46.100 --> 00:17:54.680 thought would be something that was a part of a 60th anniversary special which would be much more 00:17:54.780 --> 00:18:02.860 like you know something like the day of the doctor and it in fact seems to be the main pull it's like 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:10.780 it's is catherine tate and david tennant and that's what's special about it being the 60th and 00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:15.340 i'm glad they're doing it i'm glad they're enjoying it and that they've still got that 00:18:15.380 --> 00:18:20.960 kind of because there's no doubt about it they're still really really good they're firing on all 00:18:21.100 --> 00:18:28.560 cylinders yes just i agree with that it's not that special for me sorry what's special for me 00:18:28.870 --> 00:18:35.860 because doctor who is always about renewal is what's next uh you know you you did mention that 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:40.620 it's kind of like a mini season and i my notes actually are not quite the same it's like it was 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:47.300 a classic series in three parts technically they were mostly in four parts but you know episode one 00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:52.140 sets you up episode three finishes you off and episode three is them running up and down corridors 00:18:52.310 --> 00:18:58.620 the whole time and wow did they do that in spades they made the whole thing one giant corridor yeah 00:18:58.860 --> 00:19:04.700 yeah the longest corridor i'm sure that was deliberate look so i i didn't think that could 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:12.040 possibly be a coincidence but uh uh anyway and you say you say you mentioned the three-part story 00:19:12.070 --> 00:19:16.360 and i again i think my expectation was when i heard there were these three specials that they 00:19:16.420 --> 00:19:22.480 were going to be a three-part story and that it was all going to be focused on why has the doctor 00:19:22.660 --> 00:19:30.139 got this face and nothing in this episode even begins to address the question of why has the 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:36.940 talk to go on this face no and and as you mentioned they brought up the flux and and i think this is 00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:43.620 what they were rtd was saying about you know we're going to address it in in such a way that in an 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:51.480 oblique way um it did okay it happened you know um which is good that means some future writer can 00:19:51.660 --> 00:20:00.120 fix it but look in the uh stephen moffat 2 era but uh comes along and fixes canon that's 00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:05.680 my job i'm the i'm the i'm the repair carpenter after we've we built a kind of shaky house we'll 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:13.380 go yeah so yeah half the universe was in fact still destroyed look i'm not i'm not keen on on 00:20:13.610 --> 00:20:22.480 the on the either of those aspects of the of the kind of chibnall mythos but i what i'm missing i 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:30.100 guess is that when chibnall took the show over he did something different with it it felt new 00:20:30.320 --> 00:20:38.580 and it felt like it was unpredictable and you know so did so did rtd when he took it over 00:20:39.320 --> 00:20:45.280 but you know i don't know when i look back on when i look back on these episodes once i've seen what 00:20:45.380 --> 00:20:51.280 the kind of futigatwa seasons are like maybe i'll relax more because he'll do something incredibly 00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:58.059 radical and different and exciting and it'll get me properly fired up again but i'm a little bit 00:20:58.080 --> 00:21:06.440 worried that we've kind of reset something here and that the show it should it should be in good 00:21:06.530 --> 00:21:12.380 health right i mean it's got all this disney disney money and uh new production and everything 00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:20.640 but why was why was no one else desperately keen to take on running it i don't i don't know 00:21:21.190 --> 00:21:26.940 i think i you know my guess and it is a guess is that if you're going to get a big investor 00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:30.940 like Disney, they needed to give them some assurances. 00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:35.920 I think as we discussed, I think RG in this case, I know they were having trouble with 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:40.260 it anyway, but let's face it, considering the budget that they were being clearly not 00:21:40.460 --> 00:21:44.840 given during the Chibnall era, why would anybody want to take it on? 00:21:45.570 --> 00:21:49.080 I mean, I don't care how much you like Doctor Who, you're going to give me a buck 98 and 00:21:49.080 --> 00:21:49.820 some paperclips. 00:21:50.300 --> 00:21:51.860 I can't do this job. 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.040 And so I can understand why it's a poison pill. 00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:00.900 you get disney in you had to get something in to make disney feel comfortable with their investment 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:06.060 and i think that's probably it and then but i was wondering if that if could that be someone else 00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:15.420 could that be someone with a track record in running a television show who has a new take on 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:20.780 doctor who or what doctor who's about i mean i really hope rtc has has a new take but yeah 00:22:21.020 --> 00:22:22.880 Well, here's JMS's chance. 00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:26.300 Well, you know, yeah, it could be. 00:22:26.580 --> 00:22:28.100 I mean, obviously, I would hate that, 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:34.540 but it could be someone who has that kind of track record, 00:22:35.540 --> 00:22:37.260 but who hasn't had a go at Doctor Who, 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.420 and who might do things with the show that haven't been done before. 00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:42.440 Yeah. 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:45.820 I have a question about people in the United Kingdom. 00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:48.760 if the temperature drops rapidly 00:22:49.610 --> 00:22:50.160 do you 00:22:50.580 --> 00:22:53.060 only notice it when you see your breath 00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:54.580 condensing or 00:22:55.040 --> 00:22:56.960 does your skin react to cold 00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:58.180 like it does mine 00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:00.720 because I would notice the temperature 00:23:01.080 --> 00:23:02.720 dropping rapidly without 00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:04.040 having to see my breath 00:23:04.850 --> 00:23:06.140 forming in front of my face 00:23:06.300 --> 00:23:07.360 we're always cold 00:23:07.430 --> 00:23:09.740 it's only when you see your breath you realize it's really cold 00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:12.080 okay so that's just a British thing 00:23:12.190 --> 00:23:12.340 okay 00:23:14.100 --> 00:23:15.880 it doesn't play well 00:23:17.100 --> 00:23:24.020 it's like how stupid are you donna can't you tell that it's dropping like all right man 00:23:24.910 --> 00:23:31.320 i mean it's it's there's a lot of kind of little details in it the and talking about talking about 00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:35.360 doing something that's not been done before i kind of feel like these are these are the episodes 00:23:35.820 --> 00:23:42.160 where i i like them doing something quite experimental so an episode that's basically 00:23:42.180 --> 00:23:48.760 just katherine tate and david ten and no one else terrific but it's not and and i and i will 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:53.800 overlook all those kind of little details and things that go wrong if you're gonna do something 00:23:54.180 --> 00:24:00.300 ambitious and exciting like that but it's not really the first time they've done something like 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.100 this because heaven's end right and also i mean it reminded me a bit of midnight it's it reminded 00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:07.040 Maybe a lot of midnight. 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:07.800 Yeah. 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:12.760 He can do these things with much less and certainly without the budget. 00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:18.080 And he can make them more effective than he did with this. 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:26.040 And I think what you were saying earlier about the tension building up, I think these are hard kind of things to write. 00:24:26.740 --> 00:24:39.120 Because, you know, you are, you're filling an hour with two actors and you've really got to figure out how to kind of, how to play the dynamics of that to keep the tension and excitement going. 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.300 Because you can't just keep ramping it up for 60 minutes. 00:24:42.060 --> 00:24:44.620 But having said that, I do think you're right. 00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:48.580 I don't think it quite works. 00:24:48.820 --> 00:24:56.820 It somehow feels like they let the air out somewhere, somewhere in the middle, and they don't quite get the momentum back. 00:24:57.320 --> 00:24:59.240 Here's another one that I just want to point out here. 00:24:59.510 --> 00:25:02.480 And these are all RTD who wrote these specials, right? 00:25:03.020 --> 00:25:03.580 All three of them? 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:03.880 Yeah. 00:25:04.470 --> 00:25:06.160 Well, apart from the Star Beast. 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.400 Well, but he wrote the screenplay. 00:25:09.040 --> 00:25:12.420 He adapted the Star Beast into what it became. 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.160 And definitely what I'm about to mention is definitely RTD. 00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:24.320 He, in the Starbeast, he took the Sonic Screwdriver to the next level yet again. 00:25:25.170 --> 00:25:31.980 And then he himself, in the very next episode, has to get rid of it to make this story work. 00:25:32.620 --> 00:25:34.560 That is not the greatest of planning. 00:25:35.300 --> 00:25:41.540 Now, usually when you see that in a story, you can tell it's different writers who have different styles. 00:25:41.670 --> 00:25:43.560 They're like, oh, where's the Sonic Screwdriver? 00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:45.240 I left it on the TARDIS console. 00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:49.620 And you go, oh, yeah, OK, that's a writer who doesn't like the sonic screwdriver. 00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:58.920 I liked this. I liked the fact that the sonic was being used in a meaningful way. 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:04.060 And you couldn't really fault the doctor for having left it behind. 00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:06.840 No, I'm not faulting the doctor for it. 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:22.880 I kind of fault the writer for having to do it to not have the supersonic, as we shall now call it, screwdriver in the scene. 00:26:23.300 --> 00:26:24.620 But that's what it felt like. 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.240 It's like as soon as he stuck it in the... 00:26:26.280 --> 00:26:30.980 I presume he's still got his non-sonic screwdriver because he didn't actually insert that into the lock. 00:26:31.560 --> 00:26:32.240 Yeah, let's hope so. 00:26:32.370 --> 00:26:33.840 Maybe he could have used that for some... 00:26:34.290 --> 00:26:34.960 That would have been clever. 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.600 That would have been that would have been extremely clever. 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:44.540 The doctor definitely should have done that in this story to demonstrate that he is not just about or worse. 00:26:44.740 --> 00:26:48.960 You know, there was something that needed unscrewing and he couldn't because he didn't have the sonic. 00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:51.760 And Donna goes, yeah, have a screwdriver in your pocket. 00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:58.340 Well, how great, you know, or whatever. 00:26:58.780 --> 00:26:59.780 So, yeah. 00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:02.720 Let's ask this question. 00:27:04.300 --> 00:27:06.680 Wild Blue Yonder, WTF. 00:27:07.760 --> 00:27:08.340 Don't know. 00:27:08.780 --> 00:27:18.520 That's one of the details where I thought there was going to be some kind of real thematic resonance to it. 00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:20.400 And I still don't get it. 00:27:20.560 --> 00:27:21.200 Still don't get it. 00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:22.080 Yeah. 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:24.000 It's not jolly. 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:25.000 They're not going to war. 00:27:25.260 --> 00:27:26.100 What's it got to do with anything? 00:27:26.860 --> 00:27:32.240 So it does, in fact, make a good case that this was a placeholder name. 00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:36.640 And then at the end, they just said, I still can't come up with a name. 00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:37.020 I know. 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:40.380 Let's have the TARDIS play that when we land and comes back. 00:27:41.120 --> 00:27:41.360 Why? 00:27:41.600 --> 00:27:41.900 I don't know. 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:42.320 I don't know. 00:27:42.560 --> 00:27:46.020 But there is substantial dialogue within the episode that relates to it. 00:27:46.060 --> 00:27:48.580 So it's not throwaway stuff. 00:27:49.280 --> 00:27:50.800 But it doesn't make anything. 00:27:51.740 --> 00:27:51.920 Okay. 00:27:53.139 --> 00:28:00.780 That felt to me like, again, try to put my mind in the writer's position. 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:02.800 That's something you want to say. 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:08.080 that's some that's some cool thought that occurred to you that you go oh you know that's the thing 00:28:08.080 --> 00:28:14.240 that people don't think about this isn't really a jolly song it's a nasty song and and i want to 00:28:14.340 --> 00:28:20.140 say that i want to make that point and we know rtd's definitely got an anti-military bit just 00:28:20.300 --> 00:28:25.180 based on what he did with unit um but i felt like he wanted to get that dialogue in there 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:32.019 but it doesn't fit it doesn't have any thematic as you say tie in with this thing i guess you 00:28:32.040 --> 00:28:35.740 could argue that you're out in the middle of nowhere that is the wild blue yonder but honestly 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:44.060 it's the wild black yonder and i couldn't find any significance to that song for the british i mean 00:28:44.100 --> 00:28:51.800 it is as far as i can tell absolutely 100 a creation by contest for the u.s army air corps 00:28:52.180 --> 00:28:59.539 in the 1940s oh you've never heard of it okay well i'll i'll run the i've heard that song so 00:28:59.560 --> 00:29:04.700 many times it's the official song of the u.s air force and has been since the 40s which when it was 00:29:04.700 --> 00:29:08.820 the army air corps i went through the lyrics to see if there was anything that if you knew the 00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:14.120 lyrics and i'll just give you the first voice verse here off we go into the wild blue yonder 00:29:14.500 --> 00:29:21.340 climbing high into the sun oh you're not gonna sing i'm not gonna sing all right fun here they 00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:29.060 come zooming to meet our thunder adam boys give her the gun give her the gun down we die 00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:39.120 spouting our flames from under oh with one hell of a roar we live in fame or go down in flame hey 00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:48.639 nothing will stop the army air corps there you go bravo encore i don't know the second verse but i 00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:52.960 knew the first verse pretty well as a kid um and i knew it as army air corps too because that's the 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:57.900 way my dad would sing it and he was in the navy but he liked the song but thought it was a jolly 00:29:58.060 --> 00:30:03.820 old song but it's well i couldn't find anything i did look through the other lyrics and i don't see 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:10.860 anything that could make you it's all it's all this you know we built planes we do stuff we go 00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:17.099 out and meet the enemy blah blah blah like it just it just doesn't make any sense and unless 00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:20.860 you know he's setting up something in in shooty gat was season where the tardis plays a different 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:26.980 song every time they land which i'm gonna hate well just gonna worry yeah it's gonna go right 00:30:26.980 --> 00:30:32.920 now i mean that could be that could be cool that could be cool if it chooses more interesting songs 00:30:33.080 --> 00:30:40.179 it's just i don't know why it's chosen this soul yeah and i mean i think you it's a cool idea you're 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:49.180 right but I expected more from RCD in terms of there being some real kind of relevance of this 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:54.780 particular theme and he he's he's using it I think I mean it's not just a cool idea he's using it 00:30:54.810 --> 00:31:04.479 because he wants to do the work around establishing Donna's relationship with Wilf and you know he 00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:12.820 plays that into it but yeah i i was expecting i was expecting something more and i i kind of thought 00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:18.580 at the beginning of the episode right this is going to come back in some way and then when i 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.780 watched it the second time i was thinking what did i miss did i did i miss something because i don't 00:31:23.820 --> 00:31:29.699 remember there being anything that kind of resonated with the theme there but second viewing i didn't 00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:37.420 pick it up either so i don't know it it seems to be without rhyme nor reason in the story except 00:31:37.490 --> 00:31:42.320 to give it a title that doesn't give anything away but i don't know what title you could give 00:31:42.520 --> 00:31:50.120 this that would give something away the enough not things the you know spacecraft at the edge 00:31:50.120 --> 00:31:58.519 of the universe it still doesn't give anything away no but it's just okay but and you know my 00:31:58.540 --> 00:32:04.300 wife and i talked this over again and she did pick up she learned something from our discussion about 00:32:04.300 --> 00:32:09.400 the star beast and that was uh because she would ask me questions and then she'd go all right right 00:32:09.700 --> 00:32:15.640 don't think i go yeah there you go don't think they literally say don't think in that world 00:32:16.020 --> 00:32:22.639 you know calm down and stop thinking yes they do say that so uh but i don't think that it's 00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:27.920 possible for him to have retroactively heard the podcast and then um carried that somehow 00:32:28.550 --> 00:32:35.680 you have the power of foresight to to know this would become the theme maybe that's it this is 00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:40.840 precognition that i just didn't realize in the centauri way so it was of absolute no use to me 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:50.279 whatsoever but it was right um so i get the idea that the more the doctor thinks the more donna 00:32:50.300 --> 00:32:57.980 thinks the more i guess basically data that the the knot things have so that they could create a 00:32:57.980 --> 00:33:06.660 more accurate replica i get that part so slow it down i don't understand why the ship had to do 00:33:06.820 --> 00:33:14.880 this slowly i and and nor why did all the panels have to turn and flop and swig and reconfigure 00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:18.879 i mean apart from the fact that you're showing off your money yeah they had to spend the money 00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:23.820 on something and they weren't spending on the cast yes yes so if we have this surplus budget 00:33:23.870 --> 00:33:32.840 what can we do uh i know lots of lots of spaceship stuff no i i don't i don't understand that that 00:33:32.980 --> 00:33:39.300 aspect of the plot exactly i i tried to focus on it a bit more the second time and i i can't i kind 00:33:39.300 --> 00:33:47.819 of appreciated that the kind of thinking had to be done slowly and so i guess the captain set 00:33:47.840 --> 00:33:53.080 something up that was so not obvious that they wouldn't be able to put it they wouldn't be able 00:33:53.080 --> 00:33:56.920 to figure it out and wouldn't figure it out if the doctor hadn't turned up but i think the thing 00:33:57.090 --> 00:34:04.700 that again maybe makes this episode less successful than you know some of those other more uh well 00:34:04.800 --> 00:34:11.839 some of those other equally ambitious episodes is that i didn't really understand what it was saying 00:34:12.220 --> 00:34:17.980 well you know what's it saying about thinking and about is it that we all think too much and we 00:34:18.010 --> 00:34:23.419 should we should calm down more in our lives or you know what's the moral message of that part of 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:27.820 the story because we obviously weren't getting the moral message about the jolly sounding song 00:34:28.220 --> 00:34:34.720 being actually going to war so i was looking for my morals elsewhere and i couldn't really figure 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:41.200 it out there either it's always seemed to me quite a good thing that the doctor is a fast 00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:49.659 thinker that he's yeah you know he he puts things together he has insights things kind of flash in 00:34:49.659 --> 00:34:55.360 his brain and that's why he talks fast and that's all kind of quite exciting and i get that for 00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:00.860 someone like that it'd be very difficult for them if they had were put in a position where they had 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:07.040 to calm down but i wasn't really sure a what that would tell us and b anyway they didn't really 00:35:07.700 --> 00:35:13.900 kind of they didn't commit to that there was about you know 10 seconds of him sort of saying 00:35:14.050 --> 00:35:19.700 i mustn't think i mustn't think i mustn't think and then he just carried on thinking and obviously 00:35:20.500 --> 00:35:26.260 screwed everything up so i don't know what it was telling it yeah they're using his they're using 00:35:26.330 --> 00:35:34.400 his strengths against him it's uh it's not thing jujitsu and it's saying i'm yeah i don't didn't 00:35:34.420 --> 00:35:41.940 think there was any moral aspect to that thread i just thought that was supposed to uh okay here's 00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:47.400 another one still leaves me wondering what is this episode about yeah well so he's thinking so it is 00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:51.720 turning that the doctor thinks very fast that's the worst thing that you could possibly do this 00:35:51.720 --> 00:35:59.160 is an opportunity for donna to save the day who is not so good a thinker and and i'm not busting 00:35:59.180 --> 00:36:05.640 on Donna's chops there is just simply Donna is not as good a thinker as the doctor that no one 00:36:05.720 --> 00:36:11.920 is as good a thinker as the doctor in this show so you know maybe close but but so there was an 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.580 opportunity for Donna to shine but she didn't well in one no she didn't that was the thing and 00:36:16.580 --> 00:36:23.440 there was this thing about humans being able to hold two mutually contradictory ideas at the same 00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:30.160 time but i didn't also not a good thing and really see where that was going either so yeah there were 00:36:30.220 --> 00:36:35.100 there were there were lots of little things in this that i i kind of liked it's but they didn't 00:36:35.180 --> 00:36:41.200 add up to the sum of their parts and i mean really liked the speech that the doctor was giving to one 00:36:41.240 --> 00:36:48.000 of the things about wondering what has what the tardis did when the hostile action displacement 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:53.740 system kicked in because of course it could be away for hundreds of years and i love that little 00:36:53.980 --> 00:36:58.040 story about the being a tribe worshiping it and then a city growing up and then a city collapsing 00:36:58.160 --> 00:37:03.540 and everything and i'm looking forward to when someone makes an animation of all of that and 00:37:03.680 --> 00:37:10.180 sticks it on youtube with the doctor's narration over it that would be that would be all right now 00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:17.220 there is another possibility maybe you know we have to give it we have to give the possibility 00:37:17.240 --> 00:37:23.180 to this we have complained and i know we didn't do the russell td there but i know that we have 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:30.740 complained so much about bad wolf over the years or at least i have certainly ben has um about 00:37:31.520 --> 00:37:39.100 how lame that story arc was how illogical that story how ill-planned that story arc was 00:37:39.720 --> 00:37:44.960 it's like let's just pop bad wolf up wherever we need it and so we just have that that thing and 00:37:44.980 --> 00:37:46.700 and I'll sort it out in the end. 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:50.680 Maybe all this stuff is set up for next time. 00:37:51.680 --> 00:37:54.120 Maybe the humans holding two contrary positions, 00:37:55.340 --> 00:37:58.340 maybe the wild blue yonder or something about that. 00:37:58.580 --> 00:38:00.260 Maybe, you know, all of those things, 00:38:00.620 --> 00:38:03.880 maybe that is set up for the next episode. 00:38:04.580 --> 00:38:08.600 And then maybe this one would have some rewatch value 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:10.580 when you come back to it and you go, oh. 00:38:11.500 --> 00:38:13.860 It could be, but I mean, I think, 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:20.060 I think the thing where we actually have had that was when beep talks about 00:38:20.060 --> 00:38:23.040 the boss and that's obviously a setup. 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.140 The thing about the thing that's occurred to me there is that maybe we won't 00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:29.880 find out in the trilogy. 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:33.660 Maybe that's a shooting thing or something. 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:34.800 And it's just, 00:38:34.890 --> 00:38:35.240 I don't think, 00:38:35.600 --> 00:38:37.840 I don't think RTD will go that long. 00:38:38.010 --> 00:38:39.080 I don't think he's got that. 00:38:39.640 --> 00:38:42.740 I don't think he has that mindset and I'm that's, 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:43.720 I'm not busting on him. 00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:47.360 It's just I don't think he plans a game two or three years down the line. 00:38:48.060 --> 00:38:52.820 I think he's he's in the in the moment kind of writer. 00:38:53.580 --> 00:38:56.320 I will say this had the absolute best. 00:38:56.630 --> 00:39:01.340 Hey, podcasters, don't fact check the writer sequence ever. 00:39:02.120 --> 00:39:04.540 And that is you don't have the math. 00:39:05.140 --> 00:39:06.400 Don't tell me it's impossible. 00:39:07.040 --> 00:39:09.120 You just don't understand the math yet. 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:11.960 So you little humans go away. 00:39:14.020 --> 00:39:27.600 I was amused by that. Speaking of the Hads, if those two had perfectly replicated the Doctor and then disposed of the Doctor and Donna, would the TARDIS think the danger was over and even bother to come back? 00:39:28.120 --> 00:39:30.860 Well, that seems to be what the doctor believes. 00:39:31.720 --> 00:39:31.800 Yeah. 00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:36.820 But I don't know whether that kind of, yeah, I don't know. 00:39:37.520 --> 00:39:41.480 We don't really get that much information about what this replication process actually involves. 00:39:41.580 --> 00:39:46.180 And if they were able to make a proper copy, would they actually be the doctor and Donna? 00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:48.120 And then would they behave differently? 00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:50.460 Would they behave like the doctor and Donna? 00:39:50.560 --> 00:39:53.720 Would they become so like them that they would behave like them? 00:39:54.180 --> 00:39:55.740 Because if they don't, then they're not. 00:39:56.340 --> 00:40:03.680 I mean don't forget that there's a similar thing in Heaven Sent because the Doctor is being teleported. 00:40:04.240 --> 00:40:04.420 Yeah. 00:40:04.680 --> 00:40:08.600 So you're getting, it's a copy. 00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:09.880 It is a copy. 00:40:10.220 --> 00:40:11.580 The Doctor we've got now is a copy. 00:40:11.700 --> 00:40:19.420 Although one of my kind of feelings about David Tennant now is that it doesn't feel like he was ever Peter Capaldi. 00:40:20.060 --> 00:40:20.260 Yeah. 00:40:20.780 --> 00:40:23.740 But when he was Peter Capaldi he was copied. 00:40:24.540 --> 00:40:30.840 they do seem to be trying to imply that he's he's different because he was jodie whittaker though 00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:36.960 occasionally it's definitely he's more feminine yeah i mean i find it easier to believe he was 00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:41.240 it was easy to believe he was jodie whittaker because we saw jodie whittaker regenerate into 00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:48.240 him but i don't know it was one of those it was one of those things where i kind of i particularly 00:40:48.260 --> 00:40:54.140 liked the fact that with david tennett's original performance it felt and you know because he's a 00:40:54.260 --> 00:41:00.560 complete uber fan that he was incorporating a little bit of every other actor who played it 00:41:00.820 --> 00:41:06.880 before him into his performance but he should have incorporated some of that now i don't know 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:13.700 he could do that now because he's already kind of established his performance as the doctor and he 00:41:14.260 --> 00:41:22.460 you can't add in a bit of matt smith kind of fooling around or or um capaldi frowning or 00:41:23.100 --> 00:41:30.640 tensity yeah yeah or jody imitating david tenet that's easier to incorporate so maybe 00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:36.420 that's another reason why i feel that that's there you know they've they've they've kind of 00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:43.040 twice in this in this in these two episodes we have the scene where the doctor says i love 00:41:43.060 --> 00:41:50.920 somebody is oh is that how i talk now which is and then in this episode it's like it was hot oh 00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:56.640 is that how i am now and don is like yeah basically you've always been just a hair's 00:41:56.820 --> 00:42:03.840 from gay she's not those words but that's exactly what she says and it's like oh that's setting up 00:42:03.940 --> 00:42:12.320 shooty just like when capaldi says yeah maybe next time i'll be a woman i don't know um yeah 00:42:12.340 --> 00:42:17.760 i'll try to remember tom baker saying next time i might be a woman so well we'll have to come back 00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:24.340 to that one yeah well but i'm i'm putting it here i i think that's where we're going i don't know 00:42:24.340 --> 00:42:27.700 how that would be quick i don't know what that would mean for a character who is basically 00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:34.840 sexless asexual yeah let's see what else do we have oh um behind the scene when we talked about 00:42:35.060 --> 00:42:39.460 this i know i mentioned how a huge fan i am of the volume walls and what they can do with those 00:42:40.160 --> 00:42:41.520 for special effects. 00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:43.400 I watched the behind the scenes on this. 00:42:43.560 --> 00:42:45.480 They absolutely do not have a volume wall. 00:42:46.080 --> 00:42:48.520 The spaceship was green screen, 00:42:49.660 --> 00:42:51.400 you know, practical set with green screen 00:42:51.620 --> 00:42:53.640 and then projected behind it. 00:42:54.620 --> 00:42:59.800 And the TARDIS set is that honking stupidly big. 00:43:00.460 --> 00:43:04.460 It's an absolute ginormous aircraft hangar size, 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:07.080 physical set. 00:43:07.680 --> 00:43:08.360 It's like, wow. 00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:10.880 I still hate it. 00:43:11.540 --> 00:43:13.940 I don't hate it. 00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:17.020 I like the aesthetic of it. 00:43:17.020 --> 00:43:18.860 I do not like the size of it. 00:43:19.460 --> 00:43:22.460 The size of it is so dumb. 00:43:23.580 --> 00:43:25.660 Look, it's just dumb. 00:43:25.780 --> 00:43:27.580 I know the TARDIS has infinite space, 00:43:28.300 --> 00:43:31.200 but what good is that space? 00:43:31.700 --> 00:43:32.940 It has nothing in it. 00:43:33.060 --> 00:43:34.880 And of course, he could fill it with furniture again, 00:43:35.520 --> 00:43:37.820 but actually no, because it's ramps, 00:43:38.060 --> 00:43:45.720 rails mostly it's empty space between the platforms and an empty volume it just seems like 00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:54.120 a a design choice to make it look big finally go oh the tardis big i you know what i like to think 00:43:54.120 --> 00:43:59.760 the tardis is big i like them to occasionally go into the tardis and actually be amazed at how 00:44:00.500 --> 00:44:07.080 infinite it is not journey to the center of the tardis but other instances you know it's it's a 00:44:07.100 --> 00:44:11.140 it's an interesting day when you can say yeah you know i mean they definitely did it better in 00:44:11.240 --> 00:44:20.820 invasion of time true right i mean yes in in the invasion of time the tardis is really eccentric 00:44:21.520 --> 00:44:27.160 you're wandering around back there going and going this is just bizarre yes the brick walls were 00:44:27.510 --> 00:44:33.920 perhaps should have been covered up but again no but i'm not i'm not gonna i'm not gonna argue 00:44:33.940 --> 00:44:35.640 that the TARDIS in The Invasion of Time 00:44:35.740 --> 00:44:37.300 is not better than this TARDIS. 00:44:38.260 --> 00:44:39.620 And I know what you mean. 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:46.740 And Logopolis has a certain amount of that kind of effect, 00:44:47.300 --> 00:44:51.880 which is achieved by basically taking the standard TARDIS set 00:44:52.100 --> 00:44:53.820 and redressing it in different ways. 00:44:54.540 --> 00:44:55.740 But it creates the same illusion, 00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:57.980 and you don't need it to be in your face. 00:44:58.160 --> 00:45:01.460 And I'd also think you don't need the TARDIS to be that big 00:45:01.940 --> 00:45:05.720 for it to be bigger on the inside than it is on the outside it only needs to be 00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:11.460 well big enough to get the job done in the control room it needs to be visibly it needs to be visibly 00:45:11.680 --> 00:45:15.680 bigger right i mean i was going to say it only needs to be a centimeter bigger but it needs it 00:45:15.860 --> 00:45:19.800 needs to be visibly bigger but as soon as the interior dimensions are twice the exterior 00:45:20.180 --> 00:45:28.440 dimensions you spot that whereas now they're what i mean i don't you could get hundreds and hundreds 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.740 of exterior TARDISes into that space. 00:45:32.540 --> 00:45:32.820 Oh, yeah. 00:45:33.700 --> 00:45:34.740 It's a poor choice. 00:45:35.160 --> 00:45:35.760 It's a poor choice. 00:45:36.020 --> 00:45:37.840 I don't hate the look, 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:39.240 but I hate the size. 00:45:39.580 --> 00:45:42.320 And the size informs the look to some degree. 00:45:42.700 --> 00:45:44.080 So hopefully... 00:45:44.080 --> 00:45:45.480 And I did hear something where 00:45:46.540 --> 00:45:49.540 David Tennant did a tour of the TARDIS set on camera. 00:45:49.680 --> 00:45:50.700 It's one of the behind the scenes 00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:53.340 where he saw it for the first time 00:45:53.540 --> 00:45:54.620 when they were still building it. 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.420 And he did say something to the effect 00:45:59.040 --> 00:46:05.600 at least i i get it before i have to turn this set over to shooty so i'm pretty sure that's 00:46:06.340 --> 00:46:14.780 the ongoing set i'm not surprised it's so big they could not possibly have amortized the 00:46:15.600 --> 00:46:20.980 the expense of building it and then rebuilding it they just couldn't i mean hopefully they'll 00:46:21.100 --> 00:46:26.680 take the coffee maker out you know maybe put it i think that would be that would be a relatively 00:46:26.700 --> 00:46:36.120 cost-effective um uh adjustment given that it will save them lots of money in explosion and 00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:43.460 fire special effect but yeah i guess i'd rather they kept jodie whittaker's tardis interior for 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:50.320 oh god johnson oh i think if they if they kept kept them for the specials and then this had been 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:57.420 this had been the new aesthetic going along with shooty and his you know very slick threads and all 00:46:57.560 --> 00:47:03.540 that maybe i maybe i could have coped with it i don't know i guess i guess you know once it once 00:47:03.860 --> 00:47:08.260 i've got used to him in it we can come back to that question and see how i'm getting old 00:47:08.860 --> 00:47:15.319 or if i'm still nursing a grudge again don't think but you know i i can't say that there's a good 00:47:15.340 --> 00:47:22.700 reason for it because the doctor regenerates at the end of parting ways he's in the TARDIS boom 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:28.400 he regenerates the TARDIS is fine but when he regenerates at the end of David Tennant's era 00:47:29.160 --> 00:47:35.760 and whatever that story was uh he regenerates so strongly he blows up the TARDIS okay that's why 00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:43.020 we change TARDIS desktop themes that's why we change desktop themes going from Tennant to to 00:47:43.040 --> 00:47:44.300 Smith. Also, 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:46.800 when Smith regenerated, 00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:49.320 boom, bang, boom. But, and yet... 00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:50.980 No, no. No, he didn't. 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:52.720 He didn't. That's right. He did not. 00:47:53.100 --> 00:47:54.900 Smith to Capaldi, TARDIS stayed the same. 00:47:55.540 --> 00:47:57.040 That's right. It did. And he 00:47:57.140 --> 00:47:58.940 didn't. He didn't so. But when 00:47:59.100 --> 00:48:00.800 Whitaker went, she was outside. 00:48:01.820 --> 00:48:02.840 She was outside. 00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:04.960 And absolutely no damage 00:48:05.160 --> 00:48:07.180 to the TARDIS should have been there at all. 00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:08.820 It should be the same. 00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:11.140 No. And I can't remember 00:48:11.160 --> 00:48:17.420 why it changed for the snowmen either i think i think that was implied that matt smith was just 00:48:17.580 --> 00:48:23.440 tinkering right he'd been living up in the clouds for a long long time and he'd just been tinkering 00:48:23.680 --> 00:48:30.140 around with it i i prefer that if i'm honest i prefer that yeah well yeah or he walks around 00:48:30.170 --> 00:48:35.080 and finds another control room somewhere back next to the boot cupboard i mean i think moffat 00:48:35.100 --> 00:48:42.100 has has to take some of the blame here for the fact that he i mean i i assume it was his choice 00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:49.800 to have a new tardis interior at the start of his run as as showrunner but then he also changed it 00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:57.480 during his run as showrunner and so the sense of there being a a tardis set that has some longevity 00:48:57.580 --> 00:49:05.920 because you know it didn't change that much between 1963 and 1989 that's kind of gone now 00:49:06.240 --> 00:49:12.100 no occasional tonsil change and yeah yeah yeah now it's like yeah we've got we've got to have 00:49:12.100 --> 00:49:18.160 a new one with every doctor and possibly two yeah the only good thing about changing it is 00:49:18.460 --> 00:49:23.340 sometimes you get a really awful TARDIS and they don't last long Jodie Whittaker's TARDIS which is 00:49:23.380 --> 00:49:34.840 the worst ever but it was you know it still works um i don't know that i have anything else about 00:49:35.080 --> 00:49:42.080 this episode i got a couple of things okay i'll i'll alternate between the things that i like 00:49:42.140 --> 00:49:49.840 and the things i didn't say one of the things i liked um and this touches on the referring back 00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:54.860 to previous episodes things well i think is a lot more oblique than the references to the flux and 00:49:54.860 --> 00:49:59.400 the timeless child but i'm pretty sure there's a reference to kill the moon in there because 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:05.320 donna says that one of the things sean always complains about when he's watching sci-fi films 00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:10.080 is where does all the extra mass come from and do you remember what we said about kill the moon 00:50:11.060 --> 00:50:17.160 yeah okay well yeah okay maybe let me ask this question davis was sitting there watching that 00:50:17.180 --> 00:50:22.940 thinking where you know when i get my hands back on the show i'll say what i think about that piece 00:50:22.940 --> 00:50:30.080 of nonsense okay then let me ask this question or let me ask the question to physicists out there 00:50:30.640 --> 00:50:40.760 in the uh are we talking obviously you're converting heat to mass in this is that any 00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:45.720 more possible i don't think it is you're not asking me are you asking the physicists are we 00:50:45.740 --> 00:50:53.380 are we going to sit here i'm asking you yeah you haven't thought about it maybe you do you went to 00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:57.280 the same i don't know you work at the same university where a friend of mine who is a 00:50:57.500 --> 00:51:04.920 physicist got his degree so i mean i i like but i haven't asked him but uh uh yeah i thought maybe 00:51:05.200 --> 00:51:10.480 i don't know the answer to that you don't know the answer to that but i think the point the 00:51:10.500 --> 00:51:17.040 point about the line is that it's not a poke at this episode it is a poke at where it is very 00:51:17.420 --> 00:51:25.300 obviously completely implausible and that is kill the moon it's just you don't have the math 00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:29.580 well that would be that would be a better answer that would be a better answer 00:51:30.680 --> 00:51:37.720 okay let let me move on to something that i was less keen on and that was the cold open i 00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:44.140 there were a lot of reasons I didn't like it oh it wasn't like awful it was just when you add up 00:51:44.140 --> 00:51:51.240 all the things all the things I'm like why was thing there I mean one thing is that it felt 00:51:51.900 --> 00:52:02.380 like the end of the star beast leads right into the post credits of wild blue yonder the TARDIS 00:52:02.420 --> 00:52:07.700 is exploding and the doors fly open and a blast of flame comes out I think it would have been 00:52:07.720 --> 00:52:13.260 better if it had just gone straight through with the continuity there so that's one thing another 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:21.060 thing is and you know i will complain about these things although i think the chance of them being 00:52:21.580 --> 00:52:30.260 ever given any attention is minimal but in the big finish world we do already have a an isaac 00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:37.680 newton and he's played by david warner extremely brilliantly and he's characterized completely 00:52:37.700 --> 00:52:44.520 from this newton i was gonna say i believe newton was a particularly unpleasant human being 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:49.900 yeah this guy is kind of like going out and skipping in the meadows and sitting under the 00:52:49.980 --> 00:52:58.300 apple tree on a sunny day and he's definitely romance novel yeah cover hair guy so so yeah i 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:03.040 wasn't keen on that i also wasn't keen on the fact that the whole thing just felt like it was the 00:53:03.060 --> 00:53:09.020 reject from the children in need skit yeah it's a better idea and he didn't want to chuck this one 00:53:09.180 --> 00:53:15.300 out and then i did at some point during the episode think actually is it more than that is 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:21.560 the fact that time appears to have been changed because there are allusions to this they have 00:53:22.700 --> 00:53:28.740 time mavity is that going to be significant and it hasn't been significant and i cannot believe i 00:53:28.740 --> 00:53:31.660 know you're going to say oh maybe this is something to tie up in the next episode and 00:53:31.680 --> 00:53:42.340 Or in the Judy Gatto season, we'll look back on this and think, ah, this is him cleverly laying the foundations for some intricate time. 00:53:42.820 --> 00:53:47.860 I have dreams of hopes that he has clever laying of plans, but that's Moffat's forte. 00:53:48.740 --> 00:53:51.320 I don't think that we are going to hear. 00:53:51.540 --> 00:53:53.980 And we're never going to hear about Mavity ever again. 00:53:54.380 --> 00:53:54.860 That's what I think. 00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:55.360 I agree. 00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:57.120 I think we're never going to hear it again. 00:53:57.820 --> 00:54:04.060 let me finish my my little list of uh things with another positive thing we talked about 00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:09.500 murray gold last time i'm not any keener on the theme tunes and everything but the music the 00:54:09.620 --> 00:54:16.360 incidental music in this episode is not like anything i've heard him do before and so silver 00:54:16.540 --> 00:54:22.460 screen i'm sure they're listening silver screen we need a 60th anniversary special cd release please 00:54:23.080 --> 00:54:30.880 i am gonna say that i uh in a way would also say that it's not like anything he's done before 00:54:31.090 --> 00:54:39.360 because i didn't hear a single note of it honestly that crossed my mind uh yesterday i was like oh 00:54:39.560 --> 00:54:45.580 yeah i didn't uh i didn't actually hear any music at all i'm sure it was there but it wasn't it 00:54:45.710 --> 00:54:52.440 didn't stand out anyway it didn't catch my ear so funny thing i'm gonna take a digression here 00:54:52.460 --> 00:54:59.360 Just briefly, I think I told you that in Sola Screen, we can bring that to the reporter. 00:54:59.540 --> 00:55:05.840 They put out an album for Jodie Whittaker's first year, which I got. 00:55:05.870 --> 00:55:10.000 And I do actually like Sagan Ekinola's theme song. 00:55:10.560 --> 00:55:12.680 I think that's a good Doctor Who theme song. 00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:13.520 I like the whole CD. 00:55:14.250 --> 00:55:15.120 The theme is excellent. 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:16.140 It's really good. 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:21.640 The rest of the CD to me, when I'm listening to it in my car, I've said this before, 00:55:22.160 --> 00:55:24.760 makes me think that maybe there's something wrong with my car. 00:55:25.620 --> 00:55:27.020 I don't hear it as music. 00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:30.160 I hear it as noises that are like wrong. 00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:31.360 They're just wrong. 00:55:31.380 --> 00:55:32.380 The Carrie Blythe legacy. 00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:35.140 But I went on looking, 00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:38.760 I was looking on silver screen this past week, 00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:40.460 looking at all the Doctor Who, 00:55:40.640 --> 00:55:41.480 because they have a Doctor Who section, 00:55:41.640 --> 00:55:44.060 going, oh, I didn't know they put that one out. 00:55:44.220 --> 00:55:45.660 Oh, I didn't know they put that one out. 00:55:46.140 --> 00:55:48.720 Oh, tell me they put the last Peter Palsy season out. 00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:52.720 I don't believe they put the last season of Peter Capaldi out, 00:55:53.390 --> 00:55:57.620 but they definitely did put out the last season of Jodie Whittaker. 00:55:58.300 --> 00:56:01.100 And because I'm a completist, I added that to my collection, 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:04.220 and we were in the car, and one of those themes came up, 00:56:04.640 --> 00:56:05.780 and I actually heard it. 00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:12.660 So it was like, oh, maybe he improved with seasons X and beyond. 00:56:13.820 --> 00:56:16.400 Still wasn't like, this is, eh, eh. 00:56:17.020 --> 00:56:21.600 There's no, there's no, I am the doctor there or. 00:56:22.540 --> 00:56:24.060 No, but he's very different. 00:56:24.580 --> 00:56:24.720 Yeah. 00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:25.800 He's very different. 00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:30.120 And it kind of poke, poke, poking at Carrie Blyton or whoever. 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:35.960 I mean, the thing about the early years of the show was, I mean, obviously Dudley Simpson 00:56:36.180 --> 00:56:40.900 did a lot of stuff, but there was, there were different composers on it. 00:56:41.100 --> 00:56:46.880 And so I, I quite appreciate the fact that we've, we have had someone else, you know, 00:56:46.980 --> 00:56:53.640 besides besides murray gold much as i love murray gold again is about hearing someone else do 00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:59.820 something different and i don't suppose it's ever going to happen but it made me think it would be 00:56:59.900 --> 00:57:05.100 quite nice if we could have different composers coming in and you know doing well maybe not 00:57:05.300 --> 00:57:10.060 individual episodes but different seasons or something yeah you know here's the thing um you 00:57:10.640 --> 00:57:16.220 you talk about how one of the appeals to doctor who is that is the change and what's coming next 00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:21.220 And I'm I'm going to stand in a little bit of the nostalgia zone. 00:57:21.980 --> 00:57:25.360 I don't I don't need it to change huge amounts. 00:57:25.480 --> 00:57:26.460 It's got to change some. 00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:34.120 But, you know, when you make a big change, whenever you make a big change, sometimes you can just make you can bring somebody and they can just do absolutely the worst possible thing. 00:57:34.600 --> 00:57:35.420 Jody Whitaker's there. 00:57:36.160 --> 00:57:41.620 And and and you can destroy what you're trying to preserve. 00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:43.540 OK, fine. 00:57:43.820 --> 00:57:59.780 But this happens when you hire new people and you hire, you know, as time goes on, these things will just ultimately happen because even people who are trying to ape the style of previous shows will introduce their own changes to it. 00:57:59.900 --> 00:58:02.760 It is it is inevitable that it will happen to some degree. 00:58:03.340 --> 00:58:06.780 Nobody is so perfect that they can hold it in stasis forever. 00:58:07.560 --> 00:58:13.020 But it is also a thing that artists like to put their own stamp on. 00:58:13.620 --> 00:58:19.200 on things so there is a there is a mindset that says when you come back and do something you have 00:58:19.200 --> 00:58:24.260 to come back and do it differently this is why we get such you know awful things like the brady 00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:31.760 bunch movie or we we get people who come in and and 20 years later revive something and just make 00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:39.080 an absolute ruin of it because they they want they want it to be something a new interpretation a new 00:58:39.720 --> 00:58:51.020 that mindset prevails even on individual people and i felt like murray gold what did really well 00:58:51.160 --> 00:58:57.860 during the rtd era and then he did so much better during the stephen moffat era because he tried to 00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:03.160 reinvent the sound whether or not that was from external yeah arguments or not he did then when 00:59:03.240 --> 00:59:12.280 he went to the capaldi era i felt like he'd run out of options um it's it's okay music but it does 00:59:12.380 --> 00:59:19.200 not build upon matt smith era music it did not it did not exceed the matt smith era music murray gold 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:28.240 yeah has run his course composers like john horner who has a lot of big films out there i can spot 00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:38.220 his music in every single film because he returns to the same sound over and over again and like he 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:42.340 does not reinvent himself but of course when you're making completely different movies and 00:59:42.420 --> 00:59:47.680 they've got the same soundtrack you're kind of like huh alien sounds just like star trek wrath 00:59:47.680 --> 00:59:56.220 of khan and i don't know but i think murray at least murray's been given a rest yeah i know i 00:59:56.240 --> 01:00:01.160 absolutely know what you mean if if you hear john barry on the radio you know it's john barry if 01:00:01.160 --> 01:00:06.900 you had john williams on the radio you know it's john williams yeah yeah so uh trying to reinvent 01:00:07.140 --> 01:00:14.880 it you've only got so much in the tank and i don't know i i i think it was time for murray to move on 01:00:15.460 --> 01:00:20.040 i don't have anything against the music we heard in the specials this episode notwithstanding 01:00:20.060 --> 01:00:26.620 because i didn't hear it but like well i was because i because i'm coming back that was the 01:00:26.740 --> 01:00:33.640 one that i was like oh i'm not sure murray should come back uh rtd maybe he's got a second wind 01:00:33.980 --> 01:00:39.440 maybe he's gonna hire he's gonna hire a bunch of other writers hopefully so we only have to worry 01:00:39.580 --> 01:00:46.760 about you know three or four episodes a year that are rtds and then six others by as showrunner he 01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:52.420 has a huge influence but that's not the same as actually having to sit down and come up with new 01:00:52.680 --> 01:00:58.640 ideas that's coming up with like i think this idea could work better if you did this or if you if you 01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:02.420 went there i mean i i don't know about that but i will take the point that murray gold has worked 01:01:02.470 --> 01:01:11.720 on the show for a lot longer than rtd did at two i also i also think you've you've put in mind 01:01:11.740 --> 01:01:15.900 for me something else about the way that Stephen 01:01:16.080 --> 01:01:19.940 Moffat really pushed changing 01:01:20.030 --> 01:01:23.740 the show for his own era like 01:01:24.340 --> 01:01:27.980 not a question of coming back and reinventing it he was reinventing 01:01:28.080 --> 01:01:31.640 it all the time in a way that I don't think 01:01:32.180 --> 01:01:35.300 RTD actually did and I 01:01:36.120 --> 01:01:39.980 appreciated that again because I felt like it was 01:01:40.660 --> 01:01:45.320 rather than allowing it because he was showrunner for a long time off it rather than allowing it to 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:51.240 be diminishing returns like a slightly paler version of what had had been done before he 01:01:51.670 --> 01:01:57.920 he started off very much taking rtd's template for a season and doing his own version of that 01:01:58.100 --> 01:02:03.140 which was great but then he started doing different things and when matt smith came in he had this 01:02:03.240 --> 01:02:07.800 fairy tale idea and when peter proudly came in he had this whole thing about whether he was a good 01:02:07.820 --> 01:02:12.160 ran and argue about whether that was effective but it was it was something different and he mixed up 01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:17.160 whether there were going to be one parters or two parters or a mix of one and two parters 01:02:17.720 --> 01:02:26.820 and i think all of those things brought something new all of the time and i hope that rtd is going 01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:32.380 to bring so you know as well as having some new stories to tell himself is going to bring something 01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:40.980 new to the way he runs the show yeah well you know last time when rtd came in everyone said 01:02:41.600 --> 01:02:48.000 you know he's he's he's got his gay agenda which was you know showing people who are gay in stories 01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:53.020 i think this time i think they'll be right i think that's i think that's where he's planted 01:02:53.060 --> 01:02:58.820 his flag i think i think and not necessarily that but in other words i think he's planted 01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:06.640 his flag on representation and that is going to be the theme throughout all of this era he is going 01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:14.540 to make that first foremost and most important aspect of this era this is this is what he wants 01:03:14.640 --> 01:03:20.300 to say i have this well i think i'm not sure what he wants to say because it's what he does 01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:27.680 it's what he has always really done and i and i think you couldn't he couldn't he couldn't do 01:03:27.700 --> 01:03:34.300 anything without doing that really yeah i i just think that he's got more leeway now but i'm not 01:03:34.420 --> 01:03:40.080 sure i'm not sure that in it i'm not sure that in itself is well but it doesn't it doesn't it 01:03:40.220 --> 01:03:47.000 doesn't give you the show on its own it gives it an energy definitely and it did you know it did 01:03:47.160 --> 01:03:56.300 that back in 2005 you know the kind of effect of having captain jack in the show was that i'm sure 01:03:56.320 --> 01:04:03.640 it's not like anyone arguing it's the factor but i did see quite persuasive case made that one of 01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:09.480 the many factors that led to gay marriage being legalized in this country was doctor who and the 01:04:09.620 --> 01:04:17.260 fact that characters were being portrayed so that a kind of mass viewing audience would just see 01:04:17.270 --> 01:04:24.680 them see this as normal so i i you know i said i think it's important i think there's a there's 01:04:24.700 --> 01:04:31.320 something that doing that adds to the show but I don't know that that is going to be I don't know 01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:35.700 that that's going to be everything in the same way that with Chibnall it wasn't everything he 01:04:36.020 --> 01:04:44.280 massively massively increased the diversity of the writership of the show but that wasn't 01:04:44.780 --> 01:04:51.240 I don't know that you'd look back on his run and say that was the defining characteristic it was 01:04:51.260 --> 01:04:56.640 one of the key characteristics undoubtedly but it's not what made the show what it was when he 01:04:56.640 --> 01:05:02.060 was running it i don't think well we shall see by the way i don't know if you've noticed that the 01:05:02.300 --> 01:05:08.500 bbc well not the bbc well maybe the bbc it comes to the bbc doctor who youtube channel they've been 01:05:08.620 --> 01:05:12.180 putting out lots of videos about oh here's what you need to know about catching up with the doctor 01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:16.780 and here you know so you're if you're new to doctor who and it's that the other and there is 01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:21.000 one thing that is absolutely certain they have changed the doctor's pronouns today 01:05:21.860 --> 01:05:28.820 that in all official doctor who because on screen videos yeah but when they've heard and then that's 01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:36.120 what they do and then that's what uh yeah they're they're using it it it has been in several of the 01:05:36.200 --> 01:05:43.240 videos that they've put out to explain doctor who uh on the net it's like okay that's a conscious 01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:48.880 choice i mean i i i've always kind of i've when we've been talking about the show i've kind of 01:05:49.020 --> 01:05:54.080 gone with using the pronouns for the gender of the doctor at the time of the show that we're 01:05:54.220 --> 01:05:58.740 talking about but it definitely becomes a lot more difficult to do that when you're talking about 01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:07.440 anything kind of much more general about you know the the doctor over their whole life kind of thing 01:06:08.120 --> 01:06:12.020 you can't like you can't say the doctor over his whole life you can't really say the doctor over 01:06:12.040 --> 01:06:18.000 her whole life or you can and you're going to refer to the one that will make sense in context 01:06:18.110 --> 01:06:24.440 in the moment but yeah well yeah i mean that and that's what i that's what i mean that's what i've 01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:30.560 been doing where it's very very obviously focused on a discussion around a particular episode or 01:06:30.620 --> 01:06:36.440 whatever but when you start talking about all the all the instances i don't know where the doctor 01:06:36.540 --> 01:06:42.000 faced the daleks or whatever you could be saying he did this one minute and she did that one minute 01:06:42.020 --> 01:06:47.700 except there's the 10 million other doctors we don't know about the timeless child now so 01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:52.520 maybe they fought the Daleks so many times Daleks I'm sure 01:06:55.780 --> 01:07:01.140 that's just another flaw with the whole concept of creating all those extra doctors 01:07:01.860 --> 01:07:06.640 and having a TARDIS that looks like a pull and it'll get me started don't get me started with 01:07:06.640 --> 01:07:11.980 how poorly thought out that was uh we can talk about how poorly thought out this was but I 01:07:12.080 --> 01:07:17.720 any others any other items i know that was your list that was my list all right well next time 01:07:18.100 --> 01:07:22.280 the even worse named episode the giggle well looks like it's gonna be a laugh 01:07:24.260 --> 01:07:30.380 ah well i guess it was worth it for that it's a celebration it's a celebration remember 60 years 01:07:30.380 --> 01:07:39.340 of the show yeah yeah all right well silent thank you for joining me it's a pleasure as always 01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:44.560 And listeners, I do hope you'll join us all again next time on Fusion Patrol. 01:08:09.800 --> 01:08:12.420 You'll also find there over a decade of past episodes. 01:08:14.070 --> 01:08:17.720 You can find some of our other works at soundcloud.com slash fusion patrol. 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:21.880 Our music is Fight the Future by Amber Wolf. 01:08:23.120 --> 01:08:24.960 This has been a Lone Locust production.