WEBVTT

00:00:10.040 --> 00:00:15.940
you're listening to fusion patrol a listener supported podcast each week we take a single

00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:22.020
episode of a science fiction tv series movie or audio and overanalyze it to within an inch

00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.280
of its life welcome to the discussion

00:00:31.340 --> 00:00:33.620
Hello and welcome to another episode of Fusion Patrol. I'm Eugene.

00:00:34.310 --> 00:00:34.960
And I'm Simon.

00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:40.740
And tonight we are looking at the first of three of the Doctor Who 60th anniversary specials.

00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:45.460
First one, The Star Beast by Russell T. Davies.

00:00:46.160 --> 00:00:49.240
And I did not write down the authors, but this is based on a comic book.

00:00:49.780 --> 00:00:50.880
Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons.

00:00:51.700 --> 00:00:52.140
That's the names.

00:00:52.780 --> 00:00:54.540
From the 70s.

00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:55.660
1980.

00:00:56.620 --> 00:00:56.940
1980?

00:00:57.110 --> 00:00:58.360
Is that when Doctor Who Weekly started?

00:00:58.360 --> 00:00:58.420
Is it?

00:00:59.080 --> 00:00:59.980
I thought it was from the 70s.

00:00:59.980 --> 00:01:03.200
I don't know if it's when it started, but it was when the Starbeast was published.

00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:08.940
Well, it's the second story after, I think, the Roman legions or something like that?

00:01:08.940 --> 00:01:09.580
The Iron Legion.

00:01:10.080 --> 00:01:11.160
Iron Legion.

00:01:11.210 --> 00:01:11.640
There we go.

00:01:12.220 --> 00:01:12.400
Yeah.

00:01:12.660 --> 00:01:12.860
All right.

00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.100
So there we go.

00:01:14.220 --> 00:01:18.460
That's what this is based upon, featuring David Tennant as the Doctor.

00:01:19.160 --> 00:01:20.240
Starting with the synopsis.

00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:26.140
The newly regenerated Doctor, suffering no obvious post-regenerative effects, arrives in London,

00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:33.140
where he almost immediately encounters Donna Noble, followed by her daughter Rose, and a crashing alien spacecraft.

00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:39.140
The Doctor also meets Donna's husband, Sean, a taxi driver, and heads off to intercept the spacecraft.

00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:44.180
Unit has descended on a steelworks, where the craft has made a controlled landing.

00:01:44.820 --> 00:01:47.480
The doctor chooses to keep out of sight of the unit troops,

00:01:47.880 --> 00:01:52.220
but he's soon spotted by Shirley Bingham, unit's current scientific advisor.

00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:54.300
The doctor explains his dilemma.

00:01:54.550 --> 00:01:57.020
For some reason, he's got an old face back,

00:01:57.540 --> 00:01:59.740
and he's been plunked down right next to Donna Noble,

00:02:00.220 --> 00:02:01.560
and there's an alien invasion.

00:02:02.380 --> 00:02:06.940
Something is up, but if Donna ever remembers him, she will die.

00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:10.380
He also points out that the ship was damaged by weapons fire,

00:02:10.550 --> 00:02:13.440
which means there are two alien invaders.

00:02:14.260 --> 00:02:24.800
Rose has gone to see the escape pod, which landed near her house, and then, upon return to her shed, has found the Meep, a creature so cute you could sell them by the
millions if you had a little shop.

00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:26.560
I'd love a little shop.

00:02:27.200 --> 00:02:30.520
The Meep is afraid, for there are monsters pursuing the.

00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:37.460
Unit has located the escape pod, and the Doctor hitches a lift to see it and realizes it is right near Donna's house.

00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.640
At least, I think that's why he goes straight to Donna's house.

00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:47.500
At the spaceship, a squad of unit soldiers are taken over by the craft and proceed to search for the Meep.

00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.300
In Rose's shed, Donna discovers the Meep, and a flap ensues.

00:02:52.860 --> 00:03:01.880
Sylvia, Donna's mother, pretends like there's nothing there because she knows if Donna remembers about her journey through space and time, she will die.

00:03:02.440 --> 00:03:05.160
The doctor arrives and starts to try to deal with the Meep.

00:03:05.780 --> 00:03:11.200
Tha explained that the Wrath Warriors have hunted Meepkind to extinction, and Tha is the only one left.

00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:14.600
The possessed unit soldiers arrive at the front door.

00:03:14.970 --> 00:03:18.260
The Wrath Warriors arrive at the back door, and the shooting begins.

00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:21.700
The doctor gets them out of the house and into Sean's taxi.

00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:24.540
Along the way, the doctor notices something curious.

00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.860
They escape, but not before the Wrath Warriors notice them and open fire.

00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:35.480
In an empty car park, the doctor stops and holds court, conveniently summoning two Wrath Warriors out of thin air.

00:03:36.060 --> 00:03:39.760
The doctor as judge presents the evidence that he has amassed.

00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:45.980
The Wrath Warriors are firing non-lethal weapons and are not killing the unit's soldiers but instead stunning them.

00:03:46.620 --> 00:03:52.100
He fails to mention that they blew up two walls out of Donna's house with explosions that could have easily killed someone.

00:03:52.700 --> 00:03:58.380
He also posits that the mind-controlled unit's soldiers are actually under the MEEP's control and trying to rescue them.

00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:07.260
The Wrath Warriors explain the Meep is the last of the kind, a race of beings mutated into cruel, evil killers by their son when it went mad.

00:04:07.820 --> 00:04:13.760
The Meep responds by killing the Wrath Warriors with a concealed weapon, just as the possessed unit soldiers arrive.

00:04:14.320 --> 00:04:19.400
The doctor bluffs his way into getting himself and Donna's family taken prisoner, rather than killed outright.

00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:24.540
They are taken back to the Meep's starship, which has been repaired by a team of more possessed workers.

00:04:25.220 --> 00:04:30.060
The starship uses a dagger drive which will destroy and consume London upon takeoff.

00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:34.840
The Doctor and the gang are rescued by Shirley, and while Donna's family tries to escape,

00:04:35.080 --> 00:04:36.840
the Doctor heads to disable the ship.

00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:43.320
Donna has been increasingly remembering the Doctor in an oblique way and almost instinctively

00:04:43.700 --> 00:04:44.880
follows him into the starship.

00:04:45.340 --> 00:04:48.040
They get sealed in before the Doctor can send her away.

00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:52.279
The engine compartment is split in two by the biggest plot contrivance in the history

00:04:52.300 --> 00:04:57.600
of television, and with Donna's consent, the doctor must perform an undelete on the files in

00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:03.800
Donna's head, even knowing that it is certain death for Donna. They stop the ship and, bonus,

00:05:04.440 --> 00:05:10.800
undo all the physical damage to London. Donna dies in the doctor's arms, but the meep is still at

00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:16.420
large and plans to destroy the ship. This is where Rose comes in to save the day, for she too has the

00:05:16.550 --> 00:05:22.260
mind of a time lord, passed down by Donna, which has split the meta-crisis between them, which also

00:05:22.280 --> 00:05:26.940
means Donna isn't actually dead. The doctor then causes the Meep's escape cod to eject,

00:05:27.380 --> 00:05:32.340
allowing the Roth warriors to apprehend them. The split meta-crisis only delays the inevitable,

00:05:32.430 --> 00:05:39.280
and now Donna and Rose are on a countdown to die. Fear not. They're women, and they can just let it

00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:48.800
go, thus ending the meta-crisis. Just let it go? Clearly Donna has never met Donna. Later, Donna

00:05:48.820 --> 00:05:53.880
goes with the doctor for one last trip just to see wilf let him know that everything has been

00:05:54.160 --> 00:06:00.140
resolved that donna is safe however donna spills coffee on the new tardis console and they are off

00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:08.720
on an uncontrolled journey into time and space the end so star piece david tended back donna

00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:14.539
noble back rtd back what do you think well it's come with a lot of expectations hasn't it there's

00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:16.960
this, what do I think of it as

00:06:17.620 --> 00:06:18.520
an adaptation of

00:06:18.640 --> 00:06:20.560
the Starbeast? Or what

00:06:20.640 --> 00:06:22.020
do I think of it as a

00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:24.320
continuation of the Doctor and Donna

00:06:24.620 --> 00:06:26.780
saga? Or what do I think of it as

00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:28.640
a 60th anniversary

00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:30.620
special? Or what

00:06:30.640 --> 00:06:32.580
do I think of it as the continuation

00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:34.620
of Doctor Who from Power

00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:36.720
of the Doctor? So all of the

00:06:36.880 --> 00:06:38.620
above. There are probably other

00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:40.120
things I haven't thought of as well.

00:06:41.740 --> 00:06:42.320
I mean, I

00:06:42.820 --> 00:06:44.080
think the first thing is,

00:06:44.400 --> 00:06:50.620
i definitely enjoyed it i i didn't like everything but you know i had a very good time

00:06:51.460 --> 00:06:58.240
watching it um i'll i'll i'll just say before we get too cynical on this i watched it twice

00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:07.680
and i i thoroughly enjoyed it both times so i think i was an enjoyable hour of tv both times

00:07:07.830 --> 00:07:14.120
one or less second time but yeah after watching it twice i i think i enjoyed it a little bit more

00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:21.660
time which i think may be partly to do with the kind of adjusted expectations around it um and i

00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:27.020
tell you what when i was watching it the second time one of the things that i noticed i'm sure

00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:33.820
influenced my first you know how much i enjoyed my first watching was and this is like absolutely

00:07:34.180 --> 00:07:43.360
not news but my god david tennant is good as the doctor yeah he's he's he's good yeah yeah he's he's

00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:48.220
he's still in fine form i think i was just expecting it the first time around but when i

00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:54.860
when i kind of watched his performance the second time i watched the detail in it he is just

00:07:55.720 --> 00:08:04.880
remarkably good and i i found things to enjoy in every performance as the doctor and several of

00:08:04.880 --> 00:08:11.620
them you know i i really think are great really great and but there are there are certain i mean

00:08:11.640 --> 00:08:17.760
I think this is why Tennant coming back is the 60th anniversary treat.

00:08:17.960 --> 00:08:19.200
It's like the,

00:08:19.400 --> 00:08:19.520
the,

00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:23.760
the kind of two doctors that people think of are Tom Baker and David Tennant,

00:08:24.020 --> 00:08:24.240
essentially.

00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:26.220
And I,

00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:26.700
you know,

00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:28.420
I think there's a huge amount.

00:08:28.440 --> 00:08:28.580
You,

00:08:28.740 --> 00:08:28.880
you,

00:08:28.980 --> 00:08:29.200
I can,

00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:33.020
I can watch the worst Tom Baker serial,

00:08:33.340 --> 00:08:38.419
but just really enjoy everything that he does in,

00:08:39.020 --> 00:08:39.360
you know,

00:08:39.419 --> 00:08:40.060
in his performance.

00:08:41.140 --> 00:08:46.340
And so I think there is something about that in Tennant.

00:08:47.300 --> 00:08:50.920
And it's, I mean, the other remarkable thing about it is,

00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:54.460
I mean, obviously he was back as the doctor 10 years ago,

00:08:55.180 --> 00:09:01.600
but it's pretty much 13 years since he was the doctor.

00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:05.760
So, and there have been, oh God, he enumerated them,

00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:08.160
but three other doctors in between.

00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:16.540
So this is pretty much like what if Peter Davison had regenerated into Patrick Patton?

00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:25.140
It's that kind of gap, which I find difficult to get my head around because it feels like yesterday that he stopped being the doctor.

00:09:25.520 --> 00:09:30.960
But if you look at clips from the original run, my God, he was young.

00:09:31.540 --> 00:09:32.040
My God.

00:09:32.540 --> 00:09:33.040
Oh, yeah.

00:09:33.130 --> 00:09:35.040
The earlier ones, he really looks like a kid.

00:09:35.640 --> 00:09:38.440
You think he hasn't changed, but he does.

00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:44.080
no he looks older he does well i wouldn't say he looks old but he looks kind of thin and there's a

00:09:44.160 --> 00:09:49.560
lot more going on with his hair to i well yeah and obviously there's the reference in it to

00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:56.420
you know how long you can get away with wearing a suit like that yep yep which clearly doesn't fit

00:09:56.880 --> 00:10:02.300
the way it's buttoned up it just clearly doesn't fit right yeah it does seem to fit even less well

00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:09.840
than his original costume yeah and and that i mean let's hop into the the you know we i think

00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:15.880
we discussed this at at the end of the power of the doctor it regenerated into new clothes or

00:10:16.540 --> 00:10:24.680
a variation of one of the variations of his old clothes okay well it's not it's not an old costume

00:10:24.880 --> 00:10:30.660
i know it's completely it's completely new costume but it's it's of the same style i.e the clothes

00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:39.240
came with it well i think his generation from trout and all possibly hard not but but the style

00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:46.120
to cut the yet it doesn't fit it fits like maybe it was supposed to be on him when he was the doctor

00:10:46.740 --> 00:10:54.500
and yet he is older and so taking a page from the moffat book where we now have established that if

00:10:54.540 --> 00:11:01.720
you pull a doctor forward through time they get older and then snap back when they go back i'm

00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:07.620
kind of halfway thinking that this inner this regeneration has somehow been obviously tampered

00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:13.120
with by the boss we could talk about later but so in other words that's why yes that's why he's in

00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:19.480
the clothes that would be appropriate for that doctor or a set of clothes appropriate hey yet

00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:24.480
they don't fit like because you know took him that pair of clothes pulled him for maybe from

00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:29.280
some time when he was wandering around before the ood took him down you know when he was on his own

00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:34.460
maybe he had that suit on at one point and this is where that pattern has been pulled from but

00:11:34.880 --> 00:11:41.680
it's odd that it doesn't quite fit um it goes with that whole the body has changed i don't know

00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:47.360
i mean i said quite a lot about i i said quite a lot about regenerating into the clothes when we

00:11:47.380 --> 00:11:52.880
talked about paris doctor that i can't quite believe was a year ago and i don't really have

00:11:53.200 --> 00:12:02.380
anything to add to that except to say that i want an explanation for it and i am distinctly less

00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:06.880
confident that we're going to get an explanation you're not going to get one no i don't think we

00:12:06.880 --> 00:12:12.880
are going to get one for it i i can i mean i'll be happy if when shooty gawa regenerates he's in

00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:19.240
jody whitaker's clothes that would be the it's like okay this was such a weird anomaly that

00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:26.380
you know now we've but anyway that yeah i mean i'm gonna be okay but i i kind of think that

00:12:26.760 --> 00:12:32.060
rtd has just i mean it's ironic because it's so unnecessary but he's he's regenerated him into

00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:39.840
this costume directly because he didn't want to have a wardrobe scene it's like that that would

00:12:39.860 --> 00:12:45.860
have that would have slowed things down and and tenant is back for three episodes and he's like

00:12:46.020 --> 00:12:51.600
i'm i'm not i'm not giving it i'm not giving it a wardrobe scene so let's just deal with this at the

00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:58.300
at the point of regeneration but he didn't need to do that because we there's a cut you know at

00:12:58.300 --> 00:13:04.140
the end of power of the doctor we could see him in jodie whittaker's costume and at the beginning

00:13:04.160 --> 00:13:10.100
of this clearly well sometime has passed because he's got a new sonic which i believe is from

00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:17.100
a comic strip that has happened and there's also been the children in need special so other things

00:13:17.140 --> 00:13:22.360
have happened they could have included tenant going off and sorting himself out in the tardis

00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:28.340
wardrobe without it being televised and absolutely that would have made me happy yeah i i'm gonna i'm

00:13:28.340 --> 00:13:32.000
gonna pass something on that i've got my notes here i was gonna bring this up a little bit later

00:13:32.020 --> 00:13:36.700
but I think it, it goes to this idea about the clothes changing and no explanation and whatnot.

00:13:37.380 --> 00:13:43.820
So there is, there is one two word phrase that comes to my mind when I think of Stephen Moffat

00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:50.020
doing the doctor, not necessarily just his time, but Stephen Moffat, what he's done with doctor

00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:57.940
who. And those two words are don't blink. Okay. That's just, that's just indelibly worked in my

00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:05.040
mind about steven moffitt don't blink it's it's the key thing for rtd this needs to be don't think

00:14:06.160 --> 00:14:13.000
because the reason i enjoyed the star piece a bit less the second time i still enjoyed it it's like

00:14:13.160 --> 00:14:19.300
fun romp rtd is brilliant at a fun romp i will give him that i have complained in the past about

00:14:19.300 --> 00:14:26.120
the fact that he just absolutely does not care about setting up a solution to his story and just

00:14:26.140 --> 00:14:33.740
like flip flip flip done he's terrible at resolving plots but he's fantastic at making a fun

00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:40.660
romp i give him that but do not think about what you see on the screen because if you do it's just

00:14:40.780 --> 00:14:49.160
like that big plexiglass thing that comes down in the middle of the engine room what possible use

00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:56.740
could that be but you know and it's not like it's something that the meat put up because it knew the

00:14:56.760 --> 00:15:03.580
doctor and donna were down there it it then you can see the line where the plastic thing is going

00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:11.220
to bisect it the whole time like it's part of the design of the engine room and don't think just

00:15:11.380 --> 00:15:17.300
don't think it's there to create the drama it's not there because there's a good reason for it

00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:25.140
whatsoever so uh and rtd will never you know we'll never care yeah i've watched it twice and didn't

00:15:25.280 --> 00:15:31.280
think of that and i mean i agree with you i do think sometimes that it can be so sort of

00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:39.600
carelessly done that it is distracting i mean it's detrimental to the story but at the same time

00:15:40.280 --> 00:15:44.880
what you need is an explanation for it i mean like the plexiglass screen and the effect it has

00:15:44.920 --> 00:15:51.020
in that scene is really it you know it works really well it's just you're absolutely right

00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:56.200
what the hell is it for if you know the meat gave us and i didn't write it down but it was like some

00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:04.340
bisect the that was that was the actual line bisect the something or other and which is very

00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.140
clear we're going to cut something in two parts and there you go we cut the engine room in two

00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:14.860
parts but if it had been a line like lower the radiation dampeners then you'd have just gone okay

00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:20.480
to do with the design of the ship to compartmentalize yeah or their radiation or something

00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:27.960
but no it's just cut the room in half device okay yeah i wondered what that button does

00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:35.420
yeah yeah and so the second viewing i'm taking notes and therein lies the problem whenever i

00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:42.760
take notes then i have a track of what happened and then that starts my mind working at it and

00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:48.580
that was that was one of them you know one of a few i mean if we if we're if we're talking about

00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:53.940
if we're talking about russell t davies which is obviously you know a big element in this story

00:16:54.680 --> 00:17:01.480
i mean we've talked a lot about him as as a writer and as a showrunner in the past but

00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:07.260
one of the kind of so i guess this this comes on to the question actually hold on hold on let me

00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:13.300
let me just point something out have we actually talked a lot about him because fusion patrol

00:17:13.540 --> 00:17:20.400
didn't start until uh matt smith's first season so oh gosh we we have talked about him when we

00:17:20.540 --> 00:17:26.400
did the regeneration episodes we did rose didn't we yeah we did rose and we did uh christmas

00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:32.980
invasion yeah yeah yeah but we haven't actually sat down in the middle of rtd era

00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:39.200
retrospect and say i remember when he did that scene where it was all dangerous and then suddenly

00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:43.280
the doctor just pulled a bucket of slop out of a dispenser on the wall and solved it

00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:53.120
like that kind of thing um but yeah so this is our for a well live real-time rgd episode

00:17:54.060 --> 00:17:59.419
of doctor who yeah i i hadn't i hadn't thought of that i mean it just it feels like it because

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:05.340
we're obviously so familiar and so we are in this rather unusual situation of there's a new show

00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:12.680
runner new in inverted commas but someone who's kind of storytelling style and particular

00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:20.700
strengths and weaknesses we're already kind of familiar with and this is this is a very solid

00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:29.400
rtd story i mean i'm i'm very happy with it that the pacing is much better than the show has been

00:18:29.900 --> 00:18:38.180
recent years and it it the the dialogue is terrific it zings a lull um there's there's a

00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:46.360
lot of nice kind of character moments but one of the things that i found when i was watching it

00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:54.220
that maybe kind of distracted a little bit from my from my enjoyment was this is like

00:18:54.700 --> 00:19:01.560
a big finish this is all of those kind of familiar elements aping the rtd era was not

00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:09.420
aping the rtd era it is actually rtd but we've got the doctor i was going to say the 10th doctor but

00:19:09.780 --> 00:19:17.180
you know we've got tenants doctor we've got we've got donna we've got sylvia and we've got a style

00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:25.960
of storytelling that feels like this could have come this could be 2011 in effect it it does feel

00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:31.840
like a kind of continuation of it and another i mean there's nothing wrong with that per se

00:19:32.540 --> 00:19:42.980
i i like you know digging out my season 30 dvds and watching the doctor and donna because they

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.760
were a great pairing and you know there were there are some great stories but this is Doctor Who

00:19:49.979 --> 00:19:57.820
and it's not it's not continuing the show it is going backwards and I think you know when the

00:19:57.940 --> 00:20:03.140
announcement was made I probably expressed some reservations about this I still got them I was

00:20:03.280 --> 00:20:10.559
hoping they would go away but I still got them it feels like RTT has has just ignored everything

00:20:10.580 --> 00:20:16.200
else i mean he mentioned the fact that the doctor had a bow tie and was then a woman he mentions

00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:22.880
kate stewart who i assume is going to appear but yeah there's almost no kind of acknowledgement on

00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:28.520
of anything that other people have done with the show which is a huge contrast to what if you look

00:20:29.080 --> 00:20:35.500
at what stephen roffitt or even chris chibnall did building on what had come before and i could

00:20:35.520 --> 00:20:41.520
understand rtd doing this the first time around 2005 he didn't want loads and loads of continuity

00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:46.180
from the past i guess there's the argument this is the beginning of the disney plus era

00:20:46.900 --> 00:20:53.520
i was gonna say this is season one again coming up they've they've officially that so just like

00:20:53.700 --> 00:21:03.540
moffat did but uh more so because i think if you go to the bbc website yeah it's now 2023 23 and

00:21:03.560 --> 00:21:12.340
on yes it is so uh they are which you know makes perfect sense for disney i'm not because as someone

00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:19.740
else pointed out somewhere if you started you're on disney plus subscribers somewhere anywhere in

00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:26.500
the freaking world and i don't know if you got it on the bbc version probably not but just like

00:21:26.560 --> 00:21:35.340
apple tv stuff there's pages and pages and pages of spanish translation actors chinese actors

00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:42.260
japanese actors uh you know french actors and on and on and on yeah yeah because the disney plus

00:21:42.330 --> 00:21:48.040
has has that worldwide audience that if somebody starts watching doctor who yeah that we didn't

00:21:48.040 --> 00:21:54.400
get that you start watching doctor who and you see uh you know season 36 or whatever it is

00:21:54.880 --> 00:22:00.040
because you're going to go and sure it might be good for getting dvd sales or something

00:22:00.780 --> 00:22:05.260
but probably could be off-putting to somebody new to the show well i don't want to start at

00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:11.580
36 i mean i think it's got to be at least 39 i'm i'm counting i don't know what the number is

00:22:12.260 --> 00:22:18.480
so 39 it's the specials from 39 like power of the doctor was because i'm not going to count

00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:25.800
it as season 40 until we get the kutigatwa so um yeah but the the thing that it reminds me of a

00:22:25.800 --> 00:22:32.300
little bit it's not as bad but it's it's because if it is driven by that and the and the disney

00:22:32.380 --> 00:22:39.980
plus thing it's the it's the fox executive who wanted when they made the 1996 movie and they

00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:45.380
decided they were going to have they were going to see the doctor regenerating into paul mcgann

00:22:45.980 --> 00:22:52.800
and this idiot wanted tom baker to do it they wanted tom baker to come in and regenerate into

00:22:52.830 --> 00:23:03.600
paul mcgann yeah yeah i i do want to come back to your comment about big finish aping the rtd era

00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:10.680
okay i mean yes technically technically they are but i love big finish one it's not a mark it's just

00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:12.080
the TV series has a different job.

00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.180
Isn't every writer who works on Doctor Who,

00:23:16.290 --> 00:23:17.580
who is not the showrunner,

00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:20.820
in a way, aping that?

00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:24.320
I mean, they are writing to a format

00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:28.500
and specifications to fit the showrunner's vision.

00:23:28.590 --> 00:23:29.700
So they're all doing that.

00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:32.900
Big Finnish writers are just doing that after the fact.

00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.640
And is there a difference between

00:23:37.679 --> 00:23:40.120
RTD was there for what, four years?

00:23:40.860 --> 00:23:48.300
yeah four years so is there a difference to rtd having done five years as opposed to having rtd

00:23:48.460 --> 00:23:52.460
doing four years and then coming back a few years later and doing one i realize he's got more

00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:57.740
experience and more things under his belt and whatnot but is that really is it really stepping

00:23:57.840 --> 00:24:03.620
back because moving from one showrunner to another is not it's it's like that argument about evolution

00:24:04.300 --> 00:24:11.700
that people falsely believe that man you know creatures progressively move into more advanced

00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:17.800
forms which is not what happens creatures move into more adapted forms for the environment that

00:24:17.800 --> 00:24:24.780
they currently exist and it's not better or worse it is different and uh sometimes those changes

00:24:25.040 --> 00:24:32.100
don't work and they die off and sometimes they you know well so the moffett era is not necessarily

00:24:32.120 --> 00:24:39.180
an advancement on rartidi's era neither is chibnall's certainly not an advancement on anyone's

00:24:39.740 --> 00:24:47.700
era um maybe jnt he's down there with jnt late for me but you know it is it is an adaption to

00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:54.380
the reality of the environment that it is in to survive and so i don't think of it as going back

00:24:54.460 --> 00:25:01.880
to rtd it's technically from a linear time standpoint it is but yes rtd has been good

00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:07.400
rtd has been once again given the chance to reinvent doctor who truly reinvent it for a new

00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:14.700
time and audience that's the whole disney thing and and and he ignored a lot of the past

00:25:15.320 --> 00:25:21.759
you make a good you make a good point you make a good point and i i am cautious about

00:25:22.300 --> 00:25:25.760
banging on about this too much because this really is not the hill I want to die on

00:25:26.140 --> 00:25:33.560
I would like and I and I may I may change my mind in a week right I would like to not worry about

00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:41.240
this but I think there are a couple of things that you've raised that I connected with some

00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:46.920
interesting parallels so what one is RTD has come along to reinvent Doctor Who that was what I hoped

00:25:46.940 --> 00:25:53.120
would happen right and it still could but this is not it he has not reinvented doctor who he has

00:25:53.120 --> 00:26:02.220
gone back to 2010 i hope that at christmas he will actually reinvent doctor who because i want to see

00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:09.100
the show move forward that it that is that is the thing and if if you're right about the way it's

00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:16.080
evolving and you know adapting I will be absolutely delighted so that's fine and I

00:26:16.280 --> 00:26:23.380
and I would not object to I did not want to see RTG leave when he left I I had not had enough of

00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:30.200
his era I saw that that the last series with Tennant and Tate was the best he'd done and I

00:26:30.360 --> 00:26:37.580
hoped that the next series had it happened would be better yet and even more so when Moffat left

00:26:38.100 --> 00:26:53.980
I mean, I just, I loved the Stephen Moffat era. I was in seventh heaven. So if he had carried on for an extra year or an extra two years or whatever, I would have been
absolutely delighted by that. But do I want him to come back now? No, I don't think I do.

00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:59.900
because I want to see how is Doctor Who going to become something different?

00:27:00.380 --> 00:27:03.300
How is it going to enter a new era?

00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:05.900
Because that is always what Doctor Who has done.

00:27:06.620 --> 00:27:08.640
And that's part of what makes it so exciting.

00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:13.160
So that's one side of what I'm worried about here.

00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.780
And again, I don't want to make a big thing about this

00:27:15.780 --> 00:27:18.800
because this was just back of my mind thing, not spoiling my enjoyment.

00:27:19.460 --> 00:27:22.140
But the other, and this is real Jonah stuff,

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:33.580
But the other little worry in my head when you mentioned JNT is that what happened to JNT without him going away and coming back was that he was a super fan of the show.

00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:38.180
And being the producer was like his dream job.

00:27:39.270 --> 00:27:44.460
But until it was halfway through his run, he was pleading to leave the show.

00:27:45.280 --> 00:27:51.140
And he got himself into a situation where he knew that if he left the show, it would end.

00:27:51.780 --> 00:28:14.520
And there's a bit of me that's worried that the backers of Doctor Who, and it's no longer just, you know, the BBC now because we've got Disney Plus and whoever else, that
they require someone running the show who they have confidence in pulling in the big audiences, which RTD has a track record for doing.

00:28:15.300 --> 00:28:19.660
You know, he's brilliant at the kind of publicity and the special.

00:28:20.430 --> 00:28:32.760
I mean, we'll see what happens with the ratings because, you know, obviously you would not expect them to be the same as 2009, given the change in the way people watch TV.

00:28:33.100 --> 00:28:39.660
But it could happen that the BBC and Disney bosses get worried about the show.

00:28:40.310 --> 00:28:44.120
And the only way they'll be assuaged is if RTD stays there.

00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:46.180
And he will become the new JNT.

00:28:47.120 --> 00:28:47.520
That's funny.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:49.360
That's a real possibility.

00:28:49.919 --> 00:28:52.900
I will say this to a point you raised in passing.

00:28:55.220 --> 00:29:00.140
You're hoping that Chudy Gatwazaro will be a reinvention of Doctor Who.

00:29:00.740 --> 00:29:05.100
I did see an interview with David Tennant and RTD.

00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:13.280
And they weren't specifically addressing RTD's format here.

00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:35.680
But, you know, they kind of asked, is this is this the 10th doctor? Is this the 14th doctor? And, you know, this is the 14th doctor. And so is he going to be different? He's
like, no, he's not going to be different because this is a big celebration and we're bringing him back and people want to see him do him.

00:29:36.300 --> 00:29:54.880
Right. So they are very they are very aware that this is a celebration of the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who, and it is a nostalgia fest. This is intended to be a
celebration of the past. And so he is who he was, despite the fact that he is the 14th Doctor.

00:29:56.380 --> 00:30:00.860
I think we can carry that through to what RTD is going to write.

00:30:01.540 --> 00:30:05.160
He's going to write Doctor Who as a celebration of the past.

00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:10.580
Maybe he'll twist it as we go towards the end of it to set up the new era.

00:30:11.280 --> 00:30:17.380
But he is definitely in it for, you know, this celebration is meant to be.

00:30:18.020 --> 00:30:20.120
You're supposed to remember the old days here.

00:30:20.500 --> 00:30:21.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:22.130 --> 00:30:24.560
I mean, okay, I want to discuss it as a celebration.

00:30:24.940 --> 00:30:29.600
But I guess my last point on RTD is RTD is very recognisable.

00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:36.600
It doesn't matter whether you're talking about this or the second coming or years and years.

00:30:37.060 --> 00:30:44.080
You know, the things that make his writing brilliant and the flaws are always there.

00:30:45.020 --> 00:30:49.860
And, you know, I love recognisable writers.

00:30:50.120 --> 00:30:52.200
You know, Aaron Sorkin is the same.

00:30:52.360 --> 00:30:53.760
David Mamet is the same.

00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:57.260
you enjoy their stuff because you enjoy their stuff.

00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.060
And that's kind of fine.

00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.980
It is just a question of coming back to Doctor Who.

00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:03.280
So I don't know.

00:31:03.870 --> 00:31:09.000
The thing about it being a celebration is kind of interesting

00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:18.740
because it doesn't feel like a special RTD David Tennant episode to me.

00:31:18.940 --> 00:31:26.860
It feels like a kind of fairly solid middle of the road, could have been 2009 sort of episode.

00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:32.280
And it is special because people fondly remember David Tennant and they want to see David Tennant.

00:31:32.280 --> 00:31:44.060
And that is it, which is interesting because traditionally, like as established by the 10th anniversary and the 20th anniversary and the 50th anniversary,

00:31:44.900 --> 00:31:52.040
a kind of anniversary special is a multi-doctor story it's next week it's gonna be next week

00:31:52.280 --> 00:31:57.700
it's not gonna be next week i'm sure it's not gonna be next week and i'm not i'm not kind of

00:31:57.860 --> 00:32:05.020
complaining about this i'm i'm observing it i don't i don't generally

00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:21.040
we've got nothing we've still got nothing from wild beyonder yonder which is the episode that

00:32:21.320 --> 00:32:27.980
reportedly actually has a different title when it airs and even the next time the next time

00:32:28.310 --> 00:32:33.400
they didn't they didn't show a next time trailer and then when they released it it doesn't actually

00:32:33.600 --> 00:32:39.039
have anything in it that's right there's nothing in it they're hiding everything i agree it's

00:32:39.060 --> 00:32:45.380
cryptic but i don't think it's going to be full of previous doctors which you know by the way is

00:32:45.520 --> 00:32:50.080
fine i really enjoyed the kind of multi-doctor multi-companion aspects of power of the doctor

00:32:50.840 --> 00:32:56.360
um even if it wasn't the greatest episode in the world and the 50th anniversary special was well

00:32:56.780 --> 00:33:02.659
fantastic it was amazing it was amazing i i watched it i watched the star beast and then i watched

00:33:03.140 --> 00:33:04.460
Day of the Doctor back to back.

00:33:04.780 --> 00:33:08.640
And that's kind of unfair to the Starbees.

00:33:08.840 --> 00:33:09.520
Yes, it is.

00:33:09.700 --> 00:33:13.580
Day of the Doctor is kind of deliberately and amazingly well written

00:33:13.860 --> 00:33:18.440
as a celebration of everything that makes Doctor Who fantastic

00:33:18.580 --> 00:33:20.520
and what the spirit of the character is all about.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:26.240
Plus, you've got all the interaction between these absolutely wonderful actors.

00:33:27.340 --> 00:33:32.319
And into all of that, Moffat manages to fix one of the kind of issues

00:33:32.340 --> 00:33:35.900
that he sees with the kind of one of the long-term storylines.

00:33:36.100 --> 00:33:38.100
It is amazing.

00:33:38.860 --> 00:33:43.100
But I was just struck by the fact that bringing David Tennant back

00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:44.360
was the celebration.

00:33:44.840 --> 00:33:47.840
I mean, this is the 60th anniversary special

00:33:48.030 --> 00:33:50.420
because it's the one that's closest to the 60th anniversary.

00:33:51.820 --> 00:33:58.420
And just having Tennant back is what makes it a 60th anniversary episode.

00:33:58.980 --> 00:33:59.600
Oh, see now.

00:33:59.750 --> 00:34:01.000
Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:04.340
I'm going to throw my crazy idea

00:34:04.340 --> 00:34:06.260
that just popped into my head.

00:34:06.860 --> 00:34:08.060
Remember what I said about the clothes

00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:09.800
and the fact that they don't fit

00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.060
and we have established that when you pull a doctor forward,

00:34:13.060 --> 00:34:16.120
I'm thinking we might see some old fat doctors

00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.520
popping in in their costumes in his place

00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:22.500
during this episode, in the next episode.

00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.300
I think that's how they'll...

00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:25.919
Well, we'll...

00:34:27.020 --> 00:34:28.879
We've seen a lot of clips from the Giggle.

00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:30.980
We've seen a lot of clips from the Giggle.

00:34:31.100 --> 00:34:36.840
that doesn't nothing from you i'll be the other so it's possible but anyway that that might be why

00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:42.280
the clothes so there's your explanation um well i'm not saying we're not going to get an explanation

00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:47.139
of the clothes but at the end of power of the doctor i was like this is a big clue i'm 100%

00:34:47.409 --> 00:34:53.300
certain well no but at 90% certain that we're going to get an explanation of it and now i'm

00:34:53.399 --> 00:35:01.280
like 50 certain i think it's yeah equally likely falling fast ignored completely but yeah we shall

00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:10.100
see should we should we talk about the show itself perhaps we should i'm sure there's somebody sitting

00:35:10.220 --> 00:35:15.360
there in the audience going get on with it oh there's probably somebody there every week if

00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:20.700
they're still listening yeah i'm gonna throw one one out that's my first note donna is already dying

00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:28.900
there's that line at the very beginning where she says as the days draw nearer as the days

00:35:29.080 --> 00:35:34.280
draw in nearer or something like that i'm beginning to think that's like that's an odd

00:35:34.420 --> 00:35:40.260
turn of phrase unless you are terminal i completely missed that yeah it's at the very

00:35:40.620 --> 00:35:45.520
it's at the very beginning somewhere where she's sitting at the computer i don't remember it's in

00:35:45.540 --> 00:35:52.380
the pre-credit sequence which sups or whether it's in or later on when she's talking but she

00:35:52.510 --> 00:35:59.320
she says she says that um as the days draw nearer i'm beginning to feel like that and it could be

00:35:59.370 --> 00:36:05.680
i'm just getting old but she's not old enough to to be i mean i don't i'm i'm pretty sure i'm older

00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:12.360
than donna noble and i don't yet start thinking i'm counting days to the end even even though

00:36:12.380 --> 00:36:16.800
technically speaking we all are but you know there's there's a point where you you realize

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:21.720
your mortality and then that's when it starts and it just didn't feel like that it was an odd line

00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.640
and i think this could explain how we're going to get rid of donna again

00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:31.140
not necessarily that she will die at the end of death rtd won't do that

00:36:31.740 --> 00:36:35.720
but no i don't think he will there's a there's a reason why i am not leaving my family

00:36:36.820 --> 00:36:41.200
so this has always been rgd's problem his companions are so close to the doctor

00:36:41.220 --> 00:36:45.200
that there just is no logical reason to believe that they would ever leave him unless they had

00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:51.820
no choice martha was a little bit odd but but even there i mean at least she at least she had

00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:59.820
the excuse of like i get it it's not reciprocated bye-bye but the others yeah rose i'm not sure i

00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:06.540
agree it's because of how close they are i just think that he can't it yeah it's it's kind of

00:37:06.560 --> 00:37:14.160
part of the way he he plots these things that it it i mean i like the way dan left for example

00:37:15.040 --> 00:37:23.160
that you can have an event that makes someone think maybe i won't carry on traveling in the

00:37:23.300 --> 00:37:30.700
tardis tegan yeah yeah i guess i thought dan was better example for that one but

00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:39.300
um and you know in a way the problem goes back to susan because sort of yeah having the having

00:37:39.590 --> 00:37:45.980
having well both having the doctor chuck someone out of the tardis and also the whole idea that

00:37:46.560 --> 00:37:51.300
these predominantly female companions can travel around through time and space until it's time for

00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:57.860
them to get married and settle down are both fairly problematic and yes so we need a different

00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:05.460
way of getting shot of the companions but i guess one of the problems that i have with the way rtd

00:38:05.640 --> 00:38:13.420
plots stuff and it's kind of again one of these things where it is his weakness but also his

00:38:13.620 --> 00:38:19.040
strength is he doesn't feel constrained by anything if he wants to write a story he'll write it and

00:38:19.420 --> 00:38:28.080
you know nothing will get in the way the the way in which he got rid of Donna he needed to get rid

00:38:28.180 --> 00:38:37.140
of Donna okay so he found a way of doing that I wasn't mega happy about it then but then he wants

00:38:37.140 --> 00:38:43.560
to bring her back so he's just going to find a way of doing that and the issue with it is I mean the

00:38:43.580 --> 00:38:49.580
good thing is he can he can get Tennant and Tate back together we can have a set of three exciting

00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:55.960
new stories they're going to be very jolly and full of the kind of old camaraderie and chemistry

00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:05.720
fab but the downside is nothing he does actually carries the weight of oh this is it forever and

00:39:05.720 --> 00:39:13.540
it was like with Rose actually the the the kind of bad wolf bay stuff I did think was very

00:39:13.560 --> 00:39:15.100
I was impressed by that.

00:39:15.190 --> 00:39:16.400
I was moved by that.

00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:19.740
But when he wants to bring Rose back, he just did.

00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:27.620
And yeah, that meant that the weight of that original departure just sort of evaporated.

00:39:28.240 --> 00:39:31.420
That's what happens when you can dispose.

00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:33.060
It's that no end game.

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:34.940
He has no end game.

00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:36.440
He writes with no end game.

00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.220
And then he gets to the end of the page and he says, OK, now I have to finish this.

00:39:40.700 --> 00:39:42.860
And that's what he does with the companions.

00:39:43.560 --> 00:39:53.040
and similarly he's like well now i need the companions back so boom bring it yeah it's it's

00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:58.700
it's don't think don't don't think too hard about this because the doctor didn't erase

00:39:58.980 --> 00:40:05.740
donna's memory apparently he did not erase her memory he just password blocked it yeah i mean

00:40:05.780 --> 00:40:10.480
would he do that if that was if he was saving her life and he was going to send her off why would

00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:16.880
password blocked it because who knows he always did a monkey there was a japanese t-shirt that

00:40:17.060 --> 00:40:22.400
had those words written on it and donna saw them and then boom it's that wasn't a rat she dies

00:40:23.120 --> 00:40:29.380
that was not a retcon it was not a retcon no i thought he's he erased it he's very explicit in

00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:36.020
2009 if she remembers she will die that's there in the episode yeah if he's erased it she's not

00:40:36.040 --> 00:40:41.460
going to remember so the memories exist but she's got to not access them there's a there's quite an

00:40:41.540 --> 00:40:47.340
interesting piece by dean burnett about memory and doctor who that we can put in the show notes

00:40:47.900 --> 00:40:53.920
he put a password on it he did put a password on it yes that's not like that's not like it re you

00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:58.500
know you erase a hard drive and you expect it not to come back unless you have a special tool

00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:04.040
and there's a certain amount of time and sure maybe the erasure wasn't perfect and maybe she'll

00:41:04.060 --> 00:41:09.180
gets bits of it will come back enough to trigger the whole thing that's not the same as blocking

00:41:09.340 --> 00:41:15.340
it off in a secure area and putting a password around it that that's not yeah why i say i think

00:41:15.560 --> 00:41:19.820
dean burnett's article is probably better than addressing this as if it were a computer hard

00:41:19.870 --> 00:41:24.660
drive but let's just go with the computer hard drive and say if you want to erase data of a

00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:29.760
computer hard drive completely securely you've got to rewrite it 35 times or whatever it is i mean

00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:36.140
you'll know that better than i do but if you just if you just encrypt the drive that the data is on

00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:41.200
then no one's going to be able to access that data without the password so it's more secure

00:41:41.940 --> 00:41:48.480
the brain's not a hard drive so no no but it's still it it implies that there's a forethought

00:41:48.700 --> 00:41:54.140
that he might undo it because you know what's better than encrypting a hard drive shredding it

00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:59.740
it's encrypting a hard drive and not knowing what the password password is with a random password

00:41:59.940 --> 00:42:03.100
It's like, oh, I don't know what it is, but the doctor knows what it is.

00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:05.380
So he knows he might use it in the future.

00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:11.080
At least that's you have to you have to take that assumption, which means.

00:42:11.560 --> 00:42:14.260
But we know that was not the case in the original.

00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.340
He was doing it to save her life forever.

00:42:16.700 --> 00:42:18.600
And there was no intention of bringing her back.

00:42:19.180 --> 00:42:20.840
But, you know, OK, fine.

00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:23.900
Here's another thing I'm going to say for this.

00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:26.780
And that probably I'll probably regret it.

00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:33.780
but i'm gonna i'm gonna throw it a little bit of commentary from my wife um uh i was out walking

00:42:33.830 --> 00:42:41.720
with her before the episode aired and um she my kids won't watch doctor who anymore chibnall

00:42:42.460 --> 00:42:47.260
destroyed it for them they they simply will not they're not slightest bit interested or possibly

00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:53.960
most people when they get to that age stop watching doctor who i know i did specifically

00:42:53.980 --> 00:43:00.100
they said that they just it's been ruined and it's not because it's jody it's just because it

00:43:00.100 --> 00:43:08.120
was awful to their to their minds but anyway um my wife expressed i was surprised frankly um

00:43:08.620 --> 00:43:17.080
we talked a little bit and she got animatedly mad because of how badly they handled a female

00:43:17.500 --> 00:43:24.880
doctor um she just thought that was and i and i still maintain that jody whittock was just a

00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:30.880
chibnall just wrote david tenet and did not have david tenet in the role but that's always how

00:43:30.910 --> 00:43:41.460
they strike i think personally but i think that rtd in a way did more on that issue in one freaking

00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:47.720
line even though i have an argument about that line than they did in the entirety of jody

00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:53.180
whitaker's era which is what they just squandered they squandered the whole idea with you know two

00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:58.820
exceptions where they mentioned uh king charles and and in india and there were a couple of

00:43:59.060 --> 00:44:03.920
instances where it mattered but it didn't really it didn't really matter and that that's a valid

00:44:04.540 --> 00:44:08.280
that's a valid approach don't get me wrong it's valid to say there's no difference between men

00:44:08.300 --> 00:44:13.260
and women period therefore we can just slot in any old person here and all people are exactly the

00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:19.440
same and so this is fine and then there's also the this is not the experience that this is you

00:44:19.620 --> 00:44:27.140
would have if you were female presenting and you would have a different experience and it did not

00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:33.860
happen i'll see that and it did not happen it'll be different well we'll see if that does work that

00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:39.220
way yes i think rest i think rtd will manage to do that chibnall did not but in just this one

00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:44.140
episode it's like if you were still a woman you would remember that all you have to do is to let

00:44:44.180 --> 00:44:49.880
it up which is a little bit trite um and a little bit more than a little bit trite a little bit

00:44:50.060 --> 00:44:55.140
sexist and uh more than a little bit stupid but you know the doctor should remember that

00:44:56.160 --> 00:45:03.260
and if if it were a true thing and there is more there in that line than chibnall got the whole

00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:08.800
time that there are differences and i get you know it's it's entirely undermined by the fact

00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:16.200
that donna noble never let anything go ever in her life yeah not ever i mean i so i mean there

00:45:16.460 --> 00:45:23.000
are a couple of things one but i'm not going to get into the how how successfully or not did

00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:29.400
chibnall handle those things with female doctor i will mention that i think rtd by not casting

00:45:29.420 --> 00:45:36.120
another woman has i think he's kind of done a disservice to jodie whittaker because no matter

00:45:36.300 --> 00:45:42.520
whether you loved her or you hated her for some time now she is going to be the woman who played

00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:51.760
the doctor and i don't think that's a fair however on on this question of the whole just let it go

00:45:52.180 --> 00:45:59.380
thing i i think that was my least favorite aspect of the episode again it's kind of down to the

00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:01.700
well, you've got this Metacrisis problem that you created

00:46:01.750 --> 00:46:03.480
in order to get rid of Donna in the first place,

00:46:04.120 --> 00:46:06.060
but now you want to keep Donna, you've got to get rid of that,

00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:08.520
so we're going to do it in this way.

00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:10.240
And it's...

00:46:10.740 --> 00:46:11.460
Classic RTD.

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.720
It's slightly clever, I guess, to have it passed down,

00:46:16.940 --> 00:46:23.880
but really, fundamentally, look at that scene in the Meeps spaceship.

00:46:24.660 --> 00:46:26.500
That's a good death scene she gets there.

00:46:27.160 --> 00:46:29.900
And it's like, this would be a better episode if she died.

00:46:30.620 --> 00:46:30.720
Yeah.

00:46:30.940 --> 00:46:34.600
And it can't, I mean, partly it can't be because it's RTT.

00:46:34.780 --> 00:46:40.140
Also partly, maybe more importantly, it can't because it's a 60th anniversary special.

00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:44.920
And everyone is tuning in to watch Catherine Tate and David Tennant.

00:46:45.140 --> 00:46:50.960
And so having Catherine Tate's character dying unexpectedly would put a dampener on the whole,

00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:54.340
woohoo, this is a happy celebration vibe.

00:46:54.640 --> 00:46:55.060
It's fair.

00:46:55.680 --> 00:46:55.840
Yeah.

00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:56.420
But it's a pity.

00:46:57.080 --> 00:46:59.540
Because that part of the episode did not work for me.

00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:01.980
Oh, no, it didn't.

00:47:02.200 --> 00:47:03.540
And yeah.

00:47:03.940 --> 00:47:07.720
And Mike, once again, my wife was incensed over that.

00:47:08.260 --> 00:47:10.220
It's like, what woman would let it go?

00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:13.280
It's like, we don't let things go ever.

00:47:14.620 --> 00:47:16.580
And I can, I can attest to that.

00:47:17.580 --> 00:47:25.820
At least in that one, that one case, that was, that was definitely grab a bucket of slop and solve the day by splashing it around.

00:47:26.260 --> 00:47:33.800
It was. Gosh. So, uh, Shirley is the 56th. Am I right there? 56th unit scientific advisor?

00:47:34.580 --> 00:47:34.800
Apparently.

00:47:35.640 --> 00:47:39.360
And the doctor wrongly claims to be the first. Surely he's the second.

00:47:40.060 --> 00:47:40.600
Who was the first?

00:47:41.460 --> 00:47:44.740
Surely Liz Shaw was the first official unit scientific advisor.

00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:47.040
Good point. Good point.

00:47:47.740 --> 00:47:53.180
I mean, you could be arguing that the Cyberman and the second doctor, he advised the brigadier,

00:47:53.300 --> 00:47:59.900
therefore he was the first guy along i don't know no no no no give it but i think liz shaw was the

00:48:00.040 --> 00:48:06.280
first official unit employee who was yeah it's all about him having a job as he went on at length in

00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:12.180
day of the doctor he you know he had a job and he didn't start that job until he got stranded on

00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:19.740
earth so i think you're right i think it's liz and he has just basically her his enormous ego

00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:26.440
has erased her from his memory so also why is that job so high turnover well that yeah that

00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:32.860
is an interesting question how many of them have we encountered four so who's had that title i don't

00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:39.540
know okay so uh obviously what's her name uh the zygon lady that's good can't think of it

00:48:39.940 --> 00:48:43.760
osgood there we go that's scientific advisor so was she actually the scientific advisor

00:48:44.460 --> 00:48:52.820
yeah yeah okay i'm pretty sure then we had the um uh the one with lady lady jewel thief

00:48:53.720 --> 00:48:59.220
across the barrier they had a scientific advisor from unit oh the one who was played by lee evans

00:49:00.060 --> 00:49:05.160
okay i'll take your word for that but he was that was official scientific advisor

00:49:05.900 --> 00:49:14.560
and that's who i've gone that did we have one for brigadier bambara don't think so and i don't

00:49:14.560 --> 00:49:21.860
think we had one for the suntaran sky no because that was that was shouty unit by then but i'm not

00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:27.720
i'm not entirely clear that we know kate's still around kate kate gets a name check in this episode

00:49:28.300 --> 00:49:32.820
and obviously having shirley bingham there she definitely seems a lot more sympathetic

00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:39.680
and therefore the kind of faceless unit soldiers seem more sympathetic than they did in first

00:49:39.980 --> 00:49:47.640
shouty the era i gotta say i hate what rtd did with the unit and i yes me too and i'm worried

00:49:48.310 --> 00:49:54.020
yeah yes yeah yeah no it's it is straight back because i if i had a criticism of the way chibnall

00:49:54.100 --> 00:49:58.580
handled it it was basically that which was not necessarily his fault so much as the fact he

00:49:58.600 --> 00:50:03.900
didn't have any money but he well he did defund them that was his fault i do blame him for that

00:50:04.020 --> 00:50:12.220
but when they appeared it was basically all he got was kate there was no like staff yeah so uh yeah

00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:19.240
well we're back to we're back to i mean i hoping that they are more sympathetic because they were

00:50:19.420 --> 00:50:24.820
not sympathetic in the rtd era they were a bunch of clownish buffoons and i i know that's the way

00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:29.960
the doctor looks at them but you know that's not the way the doctor actually thinks about them he

00:50:30.020 --> 00:50:37.360
he gives the he gives the brigadier grief about being a bumbling soldier because he is trying to

00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:42.240
get the brigadier to strive higher i'm pretty sure he gives brigadier grief about committing genocide

00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:47.560
as well to be fair okay he does on that one he is very upset about that at least until you know a

00:50:47.560 --> 00:50:52.320
couple episodes down the road i i will on the other hand the doctor does understand sometimes

00:50:52.340 --> 00:51:01.080
you have to commit genocide uh i mean he's kind of done it so um yeah yeah yes done a bit of that

00:51:01.620 --> 00:51:08.180
but i think a lot of it was this is he's making yeah i'm not saying he excusings them for being

00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:14.780
military but at the same time i do believe that he was part of it was trying to work with them

00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:21.800
and make them better whereas in the early rtd stuff it's just like unit was just a force of

00:51:22.460 --> 00:51:31.000
frankly bad was in the in the story so yeah i i was i was surprised and not surprised at the casting

00:51:31.750 --> 00:51:40.840
um ruth madeley was in years and years and russell t davis kind of often is that is the actor playing

00:51:41.580 --> 00:51:43.440
Shirley? Yeah, who was playing Shirley Bingham

00:51:44.160 --> 00:51:45.540
but what surprised

00:51:45.600 --> 00:51:47.640
me was she was only

00:51:47.900 --> 00:51:49.760
cast as the sixth Doctor's Companion

00:51:49.860 --> 00:51:51.560
by Big Finish last

00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:53.560
year, no probably the year before

00:51:53.620 --> 00:51:55.820
it only came out, her first story

00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:57.780
as the sixth Doctor's Companion

00:51:58.080 --> 00:51:59.400
last year and

00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:01.100
this was filmed last year

00:52:01.700 --> 00:52:03.000
yes, okay

00:52:03.520 --> 00:52:05.340
I haven't heard any of them yet but it's

00:52:05.460 --> 00:52:06.980
I haven't either, you know

00:52:07.220 --> 00:52:09.340
it's remarkably fast

00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:15.200
for the well doggone it that's perfect timing you've got a wheelchair ramp accessible TARDIS now

00:52:15.520 --> 00:52:21.840
yeah we'll come to that oh yeah but I mean it's not it's not like it's not like Big Finish haven't

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:28.740
hired a unit by the way was Jack a unit scientific advisor I'm just thinking Jay Griffiths is now

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:33.480
a companion to the eighth doctor and she used to work for unit but they did at least wait eight

00:52:33.500 --> 00:52:41.860
years in between whereas this was a lot faster oh i don't know anyway ruth madeley's great i like to

00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:47.420
i like to like to character i hope we get more of her yeah that's that would be good if they could

00:52:47.620 --> 00:52:54.980
keep keep it a little bit more uh you know maybe maybe she's more available than kate it was weird

00:52:54.980 --> 00:53:02.780
that kate wasn't there given this you know yeah there is a fairly definite alien spaceship happening

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:10.600
pretty definitely sure i've oddly also the the soldier said geneva says to go in immediately not

00:53:11.160 --> 00:53:21.040
yeah not the boss yeah so that was an odd line but i i think i think i've seen a still with kate

00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:27.360
stewart in it from the last episode i saw i've had i think no we've seen her in previews she's

00:53:27.380 --> 00:53:33.460
definitely in the previews right yeah so i mean that and to be fair when i talked about using

00:53:33.700 --> 00:53:42.200
things from the moffat and chibnall eras that means he's doing it so yeah yeah so that that part

00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:50.300
that part good well yeah um bring back i was good i think he also said he's going to address

00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:57.440
the timeless child but uh but in an oblique way interesting so keep an ear out for that one

00:53:58.140 --> 00:54:05.540
um in passing shall we discuss the new tardis then sure you mentioned the new sonic yes well

00:54:05.900 --> 00:54:12.460
new tardis beautiful the only thing beautiful but beautiful that's an awful lot of wasted space

00:54:12.980 --> 00:54:17.279
just to show us you got a budget the only thing i've got to say about the new tardis is i'm glad

00:54:17.300 --> 00:54:18.500
that it has caught fire already.

00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:21.780
I think it's too big,

00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:23.240
but I hate it.

00:54:23.240 --> 00:54:23.620
I like it.

00:54:24.180 --> 00:54:24.580
Really?

00:54:25.120 --> 00:54:26.760
Okay, I hate it more than anything else

00:54:26.860 --> 00:54:27.440
in this episode.

00:54:27.940 --> 00:54:29.160
I mean, I've been in mourning

00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:31.100
since they got rid of the Pickwood TARDIS.

00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:32.420
Which is which?

00:54:32.540 --> 00:54:34.780
For all the criticisms of Jodie Whittaker's

00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:35.020
interior.

00:54:35.140 --> 00:54:36.420
Sorry, what's a Pickwood TARDIS?

00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:37.420
TARDIS.

00:54:37.780 --> 00:54:39.540
The Michael Pickwood TARDIS

00:54:39.740 --> 00:54:43.440
was the set from mid-Matsmith

00:54:43.660 --> 00:54:44.620
to late Capaldi.

00:54:45.260 --> 00:54:49.900
Okay, that's the better of all the ones they've had in the modern era.

00:54:50.100 --> 00:54:51.500
Because the organic ones suck.

00:54:53.240 --> 00:54:55.140
I hated RTD's TARDIS.

00:54:55.820 --> 00:54:59.080
And I was really worried we were going to get that crap back.

00:54:59.260 --> 00:55:00.080
I quite liked that.

00:55:00.660 --> 00:55:03.160
I mean, I wasn't wild about it at first, but it grew on me.

00:55:03.860 --> 00:55:04.940
Well, it grew on a lot of things.

00:55:05.040 --> 00:55:06.480
One of my favorites.

00:55:07.220 --> 00:55:09.960
But the Pickwood TARDIS was just fab.

00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:10.960
Just fab.

00:55:11.520 --> 00:55:13.660
I don't know why they got rid of that so fast.

00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:15.080
But this is just.

00:55:15.680 --> 00:55:18.040
And everyone else loves it, including you.

00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:21.640
And I don't understand why I hate it so much, but I do.

00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:25.720
I do think that it's got real problems.

00:55:25.900 --> 00:55:28.080
Like I say, it is stupid big.

00:55:28.740 --> 00:55:29.440
It's clinical.

00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:31.240
It's got no character.

00:55:31.580 --> 00:55:32.360
It's got no soul.

00:55:32.500 --> 00:55:32.940
It's awful.

00:55:33.700 --> 00:55:36.800
But I think, well, and therein lies the part of the problem.

00:55:36.810 --> 00:55:38.100
Can we at least have a hat stand?

00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:39.380
It's too.

00:55:40.020 --> 00:55:41.920
The doctor can decorate it.

00:55:42.460 --> 00:55:45.960
Judy will decorate it with his, you know, shag carpets.

00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:47.560
No, because he's burnt down now.

00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:48.940
No, it's not.

00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:50.020
That should be that.

00:55:50.680 --> 00:55:51.480
No, no, it's not.

00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:54.000
They wouldn't spend that money on it and then not bring it back.

00:55:54.620 --> 00:55:57.820
No, they absolutely, that's just temporary damage.

00:55:58.140 --> 00:55:59.100
The TARDIS can fix that.

00:55:59.320 --> 00:55:59.860
So, yeah.

00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:02.820
It's like, unless it's a gym.

00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:07.400
Now, if the TARDIS is like a, I don't know if you have them over there.

00:56:07.420 --> 00:56:08.960
I would think you'd have them more than we would.

00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:18.140
Like community centers where they have like indoor tracks up on the second level so that people can run indoors when the weather is miserable and things like that.

00:56:18.380 --> 00:56:19.520
That's what that felt like to me.

00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:20.340
It was just...

00:56:20.520 --> 00:56:22.940
Tenant was certainly getting his daily steps in.

00:56:23.520 --> 00:56:25.320
Complete waste of space.

00:56:26.160 --> 00:56:30.060
But functionally, the console, I kind of like the console.

00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:32.940
I like the roundels being back.

00:56:34.200 --> 00:56:37.040
I'm not sure I like the fact that they look like a gamer's keyboard.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:38.180
Yeah.

00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:44.460
um but they're i don't know that they should look like a gaming keyboard with the uh with patterns

00:56:44.560 --> 00:56:50.600
and whatnot but my complaint is just dumb big yeah well that's what gaming keyboards do they

00:56:50.620 --> 00:56:57.360
all they all flash and sequence and patterns while you're playing and whatnot but yeah no i

00:56:57.980 --> 00:57:03.239
i like it i like i said i like it better than any of the organic ones i don't like it better than

00:57:03.260 --> 00:57:09.300
capaldi's which i liked because it had books in it frankly it looked like character yeah black

00:57:09.380 --> 00:57:15.420
boards and levels so this one maybe this one will get decorated out in time i mean the doctor hadn't

00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:20.740
even seen it yet so it's not like he had the chance to bring a hat stand out but you know

00:57:20.920 --> 00:57:26.819
it's not really it's not really built to have things put on it those are ramps they're not

00:57:27.260 --> 00:57:35.360
places to put a sofa and a lamp and a phonograph or victorial uh well a bit of smoke damage for

00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:42.240
an improvement so yeah i don't know about that i also think that if you're gonna redo the sonic

00:57:42.500 --> 00:57:47.200
screwdriver which i didn't know that the new sonic came from a comic strip i was wondering

00:57:47.310 --> 00:57:51.420
about that because that's certainly not his old one that would have come with the suit

00:57:52.120 --> 00:57:57.100
it's a new one well it's not his old suit either so no i know but the style of suit it's not an

00:57:57.220 --> 00:58:05.960
old style sonic either it's a it's a capaldi ish style sonic and except for the fact that it now

00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:12.220
can make touch screens and force fields which is cool which it is cool but let me ask you this

00:58:12.380 --> 00:58:19.480
question if you with with thousands of years of experience which the doctor has and you're making

00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:24.360
a new sonic screwdriver don't you think that the first thing you should put into it is an

00:58:24.690 --> 00:58:32.140
anti-deadlock device yeah and then you'd have to have like triple dead because i was not happy

00:58:32.830 --> 00:58:39.060
with the return of that yeah i was not happy with the return of that like oh i did locked it why

00:58:39.820 --> 00:58:43.700
what why because it's a sonic screwdriver did he know there was a sonic screwdriver

00:58:44.380 --> 00:58:47.780
you just if you know that was a sonic screwdriver you got to write that locks in

00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:53.420
you mean did that no it was a sonic there i i got my pronoun i said that i i i corrected

00:58:54.460 --> 00:59:00.880
um yeah i i don't know i don't remember but oh yeah i mean just get rid of the teleport

00:59:01.380 --> 00:59:07.740
the fact that you can do the teleport with the the sonic now and apparently i was intercepting

00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:13.240
a teleport good timing good timing you're intercepting a teleport it's like i'm just

00:59:13.240 --> 00:59:17.940
going to intercept a teleport and hopefully someone at this exact instant happens to be

00:59:18.220 --> 00:59:25.000
teleporting because otherwise rtd don't think don't think that's the problem don't think if

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:31.040
you think about it it falls apart and i don't want it to fall apart i enjoyed it that is that

00:59:31.040 --> 00:59:36.320
is one of the things where i i i because because what he's doing there is he's shortcutting a load

00:59:36.340 --> 00:59:41.740
of explanation around it and it's good enough it does the job and i'm happy with that i would

00:59:41.850 --> 00:59:45.380
rather there wasn't a sonic of course because then you wouldn't have to deadlock things but

00:59:46.020 --> 00:59:50.280
which doesn't do any good it just means you have to flip switches instead so stupid deadlock

00:59:52.200 --> 00:59:59.360
stupid stupid deadlock you didn't disable the controls also don't think do you not also think

00:59:59.410 --> 01:00:06.300
about the damage to london being rolled back yeah i've got i've got a note that relates to that so

01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:09.080
I'm going to come on to talk about money.

01:00:10.940 --> 01:00:14.340
I have mixed feelings about the money.

01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:18.880
And this, I mean, this is presumably Disney's money that we're seeing.

01:00:19.420 --> 01:00:21.980
Because if you look at the power of the Doctor,

01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:24.940
there are some very ropey special effects in that.

01:00:24.940 --> 01:00:30.000
And it is clearly done on an absolutely minimal budget.

01:00:30.200 --> 01:00:34.520
I mean, like a student movie project type budget.

01:00:35.620 --> 01:00:39.560
And the money that we've got from Disney has done two things.

01:00:39.640 --> 01:00:46.380
It's given us that spectacularly wonderful street fight with the drone shots.

01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:57.180
And it's given us the ability to do things that I don't think would have necessarily even been done before just because of the amount of CGI involved.

01:00:57.240 --> 01:01:05.000
like having London split apart by the dagger drive, which you then have to reverse, which is

01:01:05.560 --> 01:01:11.900
definitely going to come under your don't think heading. And so in some ways, the restraint that

01:01:12.600 --> 01:01:21.180
a budget can create is not a bad thing. There is a line. There is a line between what you have to do

01:01:21.600 --> 01:01:29.460
with your imagination at a low budget and where you can go way way too far now i have seen and i

01:01:30.020 --> 01:01:35.240
did not necessarily avoid interviews with rtd and and and cast members because they're all under such

01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:43.880
tight ndas that they're not given much away yeah so it's not like a spoilery so you know rtd did

01:01:44.120 --> 01:01:50.340
say you know and and others said we've got money which makes a difference but they've all gone on

01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:55.580
to say we don't have anywhere near the kind of money you have on like big budget special effects

01:01:55.860 --> 01:02:01.240
extravaganzas but it's a lot more than doctor who has ever had access to so it allows us to do more

01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:07.800
so it's not an unlimited budget it's not a crazy mad budget but it's definitely a much bigger budget

01:02:08.300 --> 01:02:14.720
for them and crazy mad for doctor who it you know could be so but hopefully they won't go full-on

01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:20.700
avengers movie not you know yeah that's if they don't even let's hope they don't even go in

01:02:21.220 --> 01:02:26.940
yeah i know i hate the fact that they think so um they should not be allowed i thought for a

01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:32.560
second you were criticizing avengers i was thinking never you know well the movie the avengers movie

01:02:32.860 --> 01:02:37.420
yes oh the avengers movie yeah but i was thinking you know where did the money come from in the

01:02:37.560 --> 01:02:43.040
avengers it was it was the american money that made them able to shoot season four on film which

01:02:43.060 --> 01:02:49.260
just the best season so sometimes money's okay but you spend it on the right stuff yeah you have

01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:53.480
to you have to still be allocating it you can't have just like i need money for this and they go

01:02:53.660 --> 01:02:57.860
okay fine you've you've still got to do the job that's what i mean there's a line there there's

01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:05.580
there's a point where you've got too few too little money for the job to do it competently and and then

01:03:05.660 --> 01:03:10.740
there's a point where you've got too much money and you can just you can you can develop a cgi

01:03:11.600 --> 01:03:21.520
on a tidal wave and fly away on a on a parachute yeah and and although i i'm not quite sure they

01:03:21.620 --> 01:03:27.220
had the budget to do that but anyway yeah i okay yeah fair enough fair enough um and and the big

01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:34.120
tardis i mean that's just hey what's the biggest downstage week that soundstage is bigger than i

01:03:34.200 --> 01:03:41.300
think lime grove was in its entirety yeah right i i think they've got more stage wasted there

01:03:41.520 --> 01:03:46.720
for the tardis certainly more than they need because it's not going to advance the story

01:03:47.080 --> 01:03:53.320
it's just there to look big and who knows maybe it's not even there maybe it's cg maybe it's a

01:03:53.620 --> 01:03:59.680
maybe it's a volume wall i mean volume walls are amazing those are like the coolest thing ever

01:04:00.340 --> 01:04:00.520
although

01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:03.460
David Tennant did run around all the

01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:05.480
planks so they must those at least

01:04:05.640 --> 01:04:06.460
must be physically there

01:04:06.980 --> 01:04:08.980
he ran up a couple of them we don't know

01:04:09.460 --> 01:04:10.620
how much of it is there

01:04:11.220 --> 01:04:13.320
have to look at the behind the scenes stuff to see

01:04:14.120 --> 01:04:14.860
yeah he

01:04:15.520 --> 01:04:17.600
said Rachel the director

01:04:18.520 --> 01:04:19.640
told him to run around

01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:20.800
to Lely

01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:23.920
and he had to figure out the path

01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:24.880
so

01:04:25.290 --> 01:04:26.680
okay so there are ramps then

01:04:27.060 --> 01:04:27.740
there are ramps

01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:33.360
multiple yeah yeah i think it's i don't know whether the walls are there whether those are

01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:38.380
imposed by computer but um i don't know have you ever seen how they do those volume walls

01:04:39.120 --> 01:04:45.760
now start to exchange the worlds and and the the disney stuff they basically have lcd or led screens

01:04:46.540 --> 01:04:55.080
300 almost 360 degrees top bottom side and they're rendered in real time by um gosh i can't think of

01:04:55.100 --> 01:04:59.900
the rendering engine off the top of my head but a rendering engine and it's synced to the cameras

01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:08.780
so it creates the 3d effect when the cameras move and it creates lighting shining off the people so

01:05:09.100 --> 01:05:14.840
you can get the effect you have a mirror it actually reflects it it's amazing and it has

01:05:15.600 --> 01:05:20.460
revolutionized a lot of science fiction tv shows you don't need to build cells you have to build

01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:24.520
them in the computer and there is a technical amount of work that has to be done but if you've

01:05:24.540 --> 01:05:29.280
ever seen it being used in a behind the scenes shot where the camera's moving and the whole

01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:35.340
the whole set is shifting and changing when you're not looking at it through the camera's

01:05:35.640 --> 01:05:40.140
perspective it looks wrong and according to the actors sometimes it makes you nauseous

01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:46.360
well that's happening oh maybe but it looks phenomenal maybe it's time for them to remake

01:05:46.560 --> 01:05:53.540
underworld there you go there you go maybe that's maybe that's what wild blue yonder really is

01:05:54.040 --> 01:06:02.080
it's uh i'd see murray gold is back and in your theme of things from moffat era i am the doctor

01:06:02.120 --> 01:06:08.120
was definitely being played at one point i have got a note of that yeah and that yeah that surprised

01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:14.260
me because i am the doctor was essentially only ever used for matt smith yep which i thought was

01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:19.380
wrong because capaldi is the doctor and he should have had that music too i don't mind him having

01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:26.900
his own personal theme but there's still the other ones are there and yeah so yeah no i'm i was

01:06:26.970 --> 01:06:34.760
pleased with that i was less pleased with much of the rest of the music but it was all right i i mean

01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:42.880
i music was fine but i have an issue with the with the titles i do too what's your issue with

01:06:42.920 --> 01:06:49.580
titles on my list of things that go beyond this episode are like the big thing is to do with

01:06:50.100 --> 01:06:58.700
the TARDIS interior set if that sticks around into you know shooty era I shall be unhappy for a long

01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:07.160
time so with the titles I'm also hoping that they are three episodes and done because they're kind

01:07:07.180 --> 01:07:12.800
a very they're the comfort food stuff i mean if it's all about the nostalgia and making people

01:07:12.980 --> 01:07:21.040
happy for three episodes okay so be it it's not that i don't like them it's like a another version

01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:30.440
of the i guess it's between the series one and series four or between the 2005 and 2009 titles

01:07:30.820 --> 01:07:36.160
it sounded very much like you know like murray gold doing the big orchestral thing

01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:45.220
and the credits they were kind of they were pretty middle of the road it's good but i want

01:07:45.300 --> 01:07:50.860
i want doctor who to evolve these things so i mean i know you hated the bees but

01:07:51.860 --> 01:08:00.540
or the mice rats rats the rataphone yeah the the cupaldi era who theme but even even

01:08:00.560 --> 01:08:01.460
it was still Morigold.

01:08:01.560 --> 01:08:05.780
He was playing with different ways of doing the credits

01:08:05.900 --> 01:08:08.260
and the Matt Smith one was quite distinctive as well.

01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:13.060
And certainly the Akinola theme was very different

01:08:13.680 --> 01:08:14.420
from all of these.

01:08:15.100 --> 01:08:17.000
And we also saw different things visually.

01:08:17.759 --> 01:08:22.339
But this kind of felt like a, let's do the kind of,

01:08:23.060 --> 01:08:26.319
well, the greatest hits of the early Morigold theme tunes

01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:34.940
plus the general TARDIS flying through a fairly nondescript vortexy cloudy thing yeah

01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:40.160
not gonna win anymore the part I hate is not gonna be memorable is I I can't repeat my exact

01:08:40.460 --> 01:08:50.440
words but I said something Murray Gold and his something choir yeah he does like his choir

01:08:50.980 --> 01:08:56.299
I hate that I mean it was okay for the Daleks I like it when it's used sparingly

01:08:56.480 --> 01:09:04.460
You know, it was used in a way to create a sort of alien evil feel, but I do not like it in the theme.

01:09:06.100 --> 01:09:09.520
Fortunately, most of it's not there, at least to the end credits.

01:09:09.759 --> 01:09:10.640
But yeah.

01:09:11.240 --> 01:09:13.480
I did think the end credits were more interesting, actually.

01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:14.380
They're quite different.

01:09:14.600 --> 01:09:22.140
And there's this kind of percussive element to it that is new and therefore much more interesting to me.

01:09:22.500 --> 01:09:26.700
So my criticisms are actually much more about the opening credits than the closing credits.

01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:37.120
I noticed that the closing, I haven't put them together to compare as to whether or not I feel like it's just a different movement from the same piece or whether it's a
different version of the same theme.

01:09:37.279 --> 01:09:40.160
But, well, they're obviously different versions of the same thing, but you know what I mean.

01:09:41.100 --> 01:09:45.240
Whether it's a different arrangement of the same theme.

01:09:45.900 --> 01:09:46.920
I don't know about the credits.

01:09:47.060 --> 01:09:47.700
I mean, I agree.

01:09:47.770 --> 01:09:50.940
They look like they've gone back to early

01:09:51.890 --> 01:09:53.100
with more special effects.

01:09:53.819 --> 01:09:55.420
Will they change for Shooty Gatwa?

01:09:55.520 --> 01:09:56.960
You could look at it two ways.

01:09:57.060 --> 01:09:58.200
We don't want to spend too much money

01:09:58.380 --> 01:10:00.040
making the new credits for the specials,

01:10:00.660 --> 01:10:02.000
and we're going for nostalgia,

01:10:02.260 --> 01:10:04.000
so let's go that route.

01:10:04.740 --> 01:10:07.600
But I think they're going to stay the same

01:10:08.460 --> 01:10:11.240
because Chris Eccleston to David Tennant.

01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:13.180
Sub in, David Tennant.

01:10:13.780 --> 01:10:15.000
Remove Chris Eccleston.

01:10:15.440 --> 01:10:16.200
We're good.

01:10:16.600 --> 01:10:16.780
Go.

01:10:17.500 --> 01:10:22.380
credits yeah but they definitely didn't have the money then and true i mean i think i think on

01:10:22.470 --> 01:10:27.580
balance i think you're probably right i think there may be a bit of do we want to really kind

01:10:28.030 --> 01:10:35.880
of mark the changes with shooty and say you know this isn't a distinctive new era maybe but maybe

01:10:36.060 --> 01:10:42.020
just my optimism going into overdrive reality so it could be based on some of the pictures i've

01:10:42.040 --> 01:10:48.560
scene of shooty got with uh some of the costumes that he's wearing um they could maybe when he

01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:54.940
comes in they'll have a version that sounds a bit like uh music from 70s blaxploitation films

01:10:55.620 --> 01:11:01.480
shaft or something like that that uh that might be interesting version of the doctor who theme

01:11:02.120 --> 01:11:08.140
give murray something fresh to work on yeah i feel like that might be a bit culturally um

01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:10.360
stereotypical

01:11:11.280 --> 01:11:12.860
but at the same time I'd love to hear a

01:11:13.320 --> 01:11:14.880
shaft version of the Doctor Who theme

01:11:15.320 --> 01:11:15.980
would be amazing

01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:22.460
well yeah who knows maybe

01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:24.280
maybe they will I mean we've

01:11:24.860 --> 01:11:26.720
you know seen enough publicity though that

01:11:27.040 --> 01:11:28.920
this Doctor changes costumes

01:11:29.710 --> 01:11:30.160
a lot

01:11:31.860 --> 01:11:33.040
maybe theme tunes

01:11:33.190 --> 01:11:34.340
will change every week

01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:36.300
we're now in Regency England

01:11:36.320 --> 01:11:40.560
that with matt smith at one point didn't they a little bit yeah a little sequence every week

01:11:41.080 --> 01:11:51.140
just to prove they had money but yeah um let's see i didn't hate sylvia in this

01:11:51.980 --> 01:11:58.960
thought she got her best part ever yeah i thought she was she was very well written in this i mean

01:11:59.500 --> 01:12:06.280
i wouldn't be surprised if rtd listens to big finish stuff at least some of it and

01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:14.180
oh heck yeah her character has had some development so that may have helped i mean didn't hate sylvia

01:12:14.300 --> 01:12:19.260
before but obviously it was she was meant to be a foil yeah yeah yes well yeah which i was

01:12:19.440 --> 01:12:24.320
disappointed we haven't seen wolf yet but well i i found the whole wolf thing really weird

01:12:25.080 --> 01:12:32.199
because i hadn't realized or i had forgotten i did know this i i had forgotten that this was all

01:12:32.220 --> 01:12:42.960
filmed in 2022 yep and having the scene where tenant talks about wilf being dead yeah i mean

01:12:43.740 --> 01:12:51.180
we we've seen it with the what i thought was very nicely done scene with in with matt smith

01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:59.820
when nicholas courtney died acknowledging the fact that the brigadier was dead and i don't know

01:12:59.840 --> 01:13:04.840
whether you've ever watched the detectorists but when that came back after diana rigg had died

01:13:05.620 --> 01:13:10.840
there was a actually quite difficult to watch scene where they talked about the character having

01:13:11.060 --> 01:13:14.980
died because her daughter was played by her real life daughter so you knew that you know she was

01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:23.880
acting but acting talking about her own mother and so have it having this where you know that

01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:30.140
cribbins has died and yet they're not acknowledging his death on the scene struck me as really weird

01:13:30.880 --> 01:13:38.040
until i realized that that probably means that we are going to see him in it yes but it still

01:13:38.090 --> 01:13:45.820
feels really weird yeah it was i'm looking forward to seeing him anyway yeah i i heard that there's

01:13:45.820 --> 01:13:51.540
somebody said luckily we got bernard cribbins to film before before he died so i knew he's going

01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:55.740
to be in it so then when they did that and they said oh he's you know he's dead the doctor went

01:13:55.800 --> 01:14:02.200
sad and i thought oh well maybe they thought it was in bad taste and so they changed it around a

01:14:02.270 --> 01:14:07.940
little bit but uh now yes they just i'm a bit surprised they didn't change that scene but yeah

01:14:08.500 --> 01:14:14.800
yeah it's just a particular tone of it it's it's making a gag out of the fact that the doctor

01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:19.960
thinks he's dead and he's not dead but he is dead okay to be fair and yeah you're right they're

01:14:19.980 --> 01:14:26.340
making a gag out of it because he's not with us anymore is not what you say when they've moved out

01:14:26.980 --> 01:14:32.980
like right you don't say that i mean like you'd say he lives in unit towers or whatever

01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:41.040
yeah he doesn't live with us anymore so anything like that but yeah yeah but that was that part

01:14:41.120 --> 01:14:49.940
was a bit of a uh what else you got the big thing i've got left is to talk about the star

01:14:49.940 --> 01:14:55.440
Starbeast. Okay. Because, you know, we've talked about it as a Dr. Donner thing, we've talked about

01:14:55.560 --> 01:14:59.380
the continuation of Doctor Who, we've talked about it as an anniversary special, but it is also

01:14:59.920 --> 01:15:07.140
an adaptation of the Starbeast. And I, up front, I should say, I have not read the Starbeast.

01:15:07.860 --> 01:15:12.560
So it's kind of difficult for me to comment on it as an adaptation of that. But I have,

01:15:12.620 --> 01:15:18.140
however, listened to another adaptation of the Starbeast with Tom Baker, who was originally

01:15:18.160 --> 01:15:26.520
drawn in the comic so i have something to kind of compare it to there and i mean this is not the

01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:33.060
first time that rtd has adapted no that's not quite right the first three rtd series contained

01:15:34.020 --> 01:15:41.240
adaptations of doctor who stories from other media that he thought deserved to reach a wider audience

01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:48.120
so dalek and rise of the cybermen and age of steel and human nature and the family of blood

01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:53.860
were all adapted in some cases by their own author in some cases by other people but not

01:15:54.120 --> 01:16:01.920
rtd from audio or book forms this is the first comic adaptation i think and rtd has adapted it

01:16:02.020 --> 01:16:08.980
himself yeah but the original was very very 1980s certainly the the big finnish audio version that

01:16:09.040 --> 01:16:13.480
i have heard with tom baker and it is it leans into it to the point of getting angela ripon as

01:16:13.500 --> 01:16:20.220
the newsreader uh which is fantastic it's very yorkshire um yeah obviously those things you've

01:16:20.220 --> 01:16:25.460
got to dispense with because of the donna angle so it's got to be london it's got to be present day

01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:32.560
and that's fair enough and rose is a fairly straight swap for sharon and that's fair enough

01:16:33.040 --> 01:16:39.700
i was kind of a bit sad that because i was pleased when fudge turns up in it but then okay good i

01:16:39.720 --> 01:16:45.680
don't remember i i've i've heard the star beast big finish i have not read the comic i don't

01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:50.200
remember the names of any of the characters uh the fact that you now say one is named fudge

01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:56.320
explains one of the things of like why was that kid in this okay got it but that but that is

01:16:56.520 --> 01:17:02.420
exactly it i mean if you if you hadn't seen or heard the star beast or read or heard the star

01:17:02.540 --> 01:17:06.300
beast i should say the the previous versions of it you'd think what is this character doing

01:17:06.320 --> 01:17:10.520
because I thought Fudge was a terrific character,

01:17:11.420 --> 01:17:15.420
but, you know, he has almost nothing to do with doing this.

01:17:15.450 --> 01:17:19.240
And you just think, oh, it's RTD, he was going to write him in

01:17:19.250 --> 01:17:22.680
and then he sort of forgot to write him in

01:17:22.900 --> 01:17:27.100
because he's this super kind of sci-fi comic book nerd

01:17:27.980 --> 01:17:30.120
and Sharon keeps calling him a wazzock in Yorkshire.

01:17:30.320 --> 01:17:40.520
And it's, you know, it's lovely the way in which he is very kind of, he wants to be all knowledgeable about these kind of sci-fi and alien things.

01:17:40.610 --> 01:17:44.340
And then a real alien turns up and he's got no idea what to do with it.

01:17:44.340 --> 01:17:48.540
And Sharon's the one who obviously, you know, starts making the decisions.

01:17:50.080 --> 01:17:53.600
So I'd have liked them to carry across fudge, I guess.

01:17:53.820 --> 01:17:54.520
I'd have liked them.

01:17:54.650 --> 01:17:59.420
But again, this comes down to the fact they've got an hour to tell the story and they've got a load of Donna stuff to fit in as well.

01:17:59.620 --> 01:18:16.180
I'd have liked them to have had that slow build-up where they, in the audio, the beep, the meep is kind of non-speaking, just meeping for like at least an episode and a
half.

01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:22.320
And then, you know, start speaking English as a form of manipulation.

01:18:23.460 --> 01:18:36.460
And so you get a much more kind of gradual move from the cute alien into them realizing this is a intergalactic criminal mastermind.

01:18:37.260 --> 01:18:37.780
Starbeast.

01:18:37.780 --> 01:18:39.080
Which is very cool.

01:18:39.500 --> 01:18:40.240
Yeah, exactly.

01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:47.180
I guess the other change that I noticed, I think this is pretty much, oh, well, there's a couple of things.

01:18:47.200 --> 01:18:49.540
The Wrath Warriors are much nicer.

01:18:49.820 --> 01:18:57.100
I think you alluded to the fact that they did actually blow a hole inside Donna's house that could have killed someone.

01:18:57.560 --> 01:18:57.780
Two.

01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:05.460
In the audio, they turn the doctor into a human bomb and talk about using any means necessary to bring Beep to justice.

01:19:06.440 --> 01:19:11.580
So these are, for perhaps modern times, these are much less naughty police.

01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:20.600
yeah the other thing was that the black sun has become a psychedelic sun and i can think of two

01:19:20.760 --> 01:19:25.740
reasons for that i'm not quite sure which is correct one is they wanting to avoid calling

01:19:25.740 --> 01:19:33.600
it black the other is black eyes are not as cool as psychedelic effect eyes which did look really

01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:39.560
amazingly good so maybe that was it yeah i i just assumed that they did it to avoid comparisons to

01:19:39.580 --> 01:19:45.700
the space 1999 uh episode of the black sun yeah that was to be there yep that was i'm sure that

01:19:45.700 --> 01:19:52.080
was it i'm sure rtd has seen that i'm i'm positive so you know probably going yeah but pat mills and

01:19:52.200 --> 01:19:59.100
dave gibbons may have seen that that's true very very true very true is there anything else on this

01:19:59.320 --> 01:20:04.000
episode that we should touch on i promised you since you had to put your glasses on in order

01:20:04.020 --> 01:20:11.460
to read the synopsis that I would talk about glasses. I think that the 14th Doctor is wearing

01:20:11.470 --> 01:20:16.080
the 11th Doctor's brainy specs. I haven't been able to properly check, but I'm pretty sure the

01:20:16.220 --> 01:20:21.480
10th Doctor's brainy specs were rectangular in these around. Well, that seems like a horrible

01:20:21.660 --> 01:20:29.120
continuity error, or is it a callback for the fans? I don't know, but I'm literally just saying it.

01:20:29.740 --> 01:20:37.120
An idea has popped into my head just now that he's wearing Patrick Troughton's trousers and he's wearing Matt Smith's glasses.

01:20:38.160 --> 01:20:41.940
I'm going to be looking very carefully at what he uses and wears from now on.

01:20:42.560 --> 01:20:44.520
If he's got celery in his pocket, we'll know.

01:20:45.180 --> 01:20:46.760
Yeah, there's celery somewhere, isn't there?

01:20:47.420 --> 01:20:48.360
Yeah, it could be.

01:20:49.580 --> 01:20:51.600
Pop open a stack and start eating celery.

01:20:51.820 --> 01:20:53.000
It's just...

01:20:53.580 --> 01:20:56.300
I don't think they are Patrick Troughton's trousers.

01:20:57.020 --> 01:21:04.980
I, again, after watching the episode, then I saw a clip where they talked about making the outfit.

01:21:05.090 --> 01:21:10.040
I guess David Tennant just picked out the fabric and let me go here.

01:21:10.500 --> 01:21:11.860
This is how I want it to be.

01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:16.100
And RTD is like, yeah, you know, it's all our designing team.

01:21:17.860 --> 01:21:20.980
So I thought that was the same fabric as the vest.

01:21:22.040 --> 01:21:22.700
Yes, it could be.

01:21:23.380 --> 01:21:24.080
It's all.

01:21:24.300 --> 01:21:29.800
But I would consider that to be, they've made the vest out of Patrick Troughton's spare trousers.

01:21:30.720 --> 01:21:32.440
His trousers were black and white.

01:21:32.980 --> 01:21:35.620
I've seen them all, and they are black and white.

01:21:36.180 --> 01:21:37.140
There's no color there.

01:21:37.870 --> 01:21:38.760
Yeah, fair point.

01:21:39.420 --> 01:21:39.920
Fair point.

01:21:40.180 --> 01:21:41.540
You proved it wrong.

01:21:42.980 --> 01:21:48.080
Was Sean the same actor who played him in that momentary section?

01:21:48.960 --> 01:21:49.800
Yeah, Carl Collins.

01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:50.840
Okay.

01:21:51.560 --> 01:21:51.760
Okay.

01:21:52.340 --> 01:21:53.620
He was also in.

01:21:53.840 --> 01:22:01.480
attacks the block with jodie whittaker as sean no that i would tell the block was a film that

01:22:01.580 --> 01:22:05.620
had nothing to do with doctor who but was one of the few things i'd seen jodie whittaker in before

01:22:05.860 --> 01:22:10.900
she played the doctor okay quite good well nice of them to get the same actor back even though

01:22:11.160 --> 01:22:18.480
he was in a far shot seen briefly two seconds and listen but all right all right fair dues

01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:28.780
fair dues oh well you know i hate recasting so i i would have insisted on it oh no okay so here's

01:22:28.920 --> 01:22:34.540
another one you know how how we've had it established that the doctor chose capalli's

01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:42.920
face to remind him of he has to be nicer whatever it is right so the doctor somehow fix his face

01:22:43.240 --> 01:22:52.060
or that the doctor shows a cockney accent because rose had a cockney accent sort of uh sort of

01:22:52.770 --> 01:22:59.380
did that get established on screen or was that just rtd in the doctor who confidential i don't

01:22:59.600 --> 01:23:04.400
know i don't recall where that comes from off the top of my head but i i've treated it as being

01:23:05.200 --> 01:23:12.080
legit but okay what what is donna's thing it's like some some husbands would be worried about

01:23:12.100 --> 01:23:18.480
going on but yeah but not him donna has a type donna has had a type since we first saw her

01:23:19.010 --> 01:23:25.580
and what does the 15th doctor look like donna's type your donna's type is based on the fact we've

01:23:25.580 --> 01:23:31.360
seen her with two well two fiancés and one who she actually successfully married and they're both

01:23:31.540 --> 01:23:39.781
black and so is the next incarnation of the doctor so yeah okay that's that's his uh i'm just trying

01:23:39.800 --> 01:23:46.440
to get back and donna i'm not sure that's a number of data points sufficient to but yeah it's an rgd

01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:51.900
script we can we don't need a whole lot of data you can draw the conclusions you want but they

01:23:51.900 --> 01:23:59.960
may not be may not be the right one i i will say uh leave this for others to say but i did find one

01:24:00.040 --> 01:24:07.240
thing fascinating um my wife did watch this okay like i said the kids just like don't don't bother

01:24:07.260 --> 01:24:13.880
me. I don't care anymore. My wife, extremely mad at Dr. Who really, I mean, surprisingly mad at

01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:20.600
Dr. Who. She did sit down and watch this. We did watch it together. She paid attention. She was not

01:24:20.700 --> 01:24:27.040
reading on her phone. She was not snoring. She was not, you know, she wasn't cheering, but you know,

01:24:27.180 --> 01:24:35.321
she was, she was, she watched the whole thing. And then I had a, I had a talk with her like a day

01:24:35.340 --> 01:24:41.300
later we're out on our evening walk and that is when i discovered that she watched the entire

01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:48.460
episode and never knew rose was trans what even after it gets mentioned in the episode yeah it's

01:24:48.460 --> 01:24:53.600
like how did you how did you miss that you need to get the whole binary non-binary binary binary

01:24:53.820 --> 01:24:59.581
binary binary binary binary yeah the non-binary and the speech about being non-binary but also

01:24:59.600 --> 01:25:06.400
the dead naming scene is kind of yes yes giveaway um kind of i didn't really catch that much in the

01:25:06.500 --> 01:25:11.620
first one because the kids just shouted something and then i give us a kiss and they'll beat them

01:25:11.760 --> 01:25:18.920
up and tell their moms you know the but uh so i didn't really didn't really catch that um they

01:25:18.950 --> 01:25:26.581
call her jason yes i did catch that on the second pass through um so yeah there was there was that

01:25:26.600 --> 01:25:33.400
i i do have a concern about it and i'll i'll bring it out and that is and this is again how

01:25:34.080 --> 01:25:40.020
rt doesn't really think through what he does there's this whole scene where the doctor and

01:25:40.160 --> 01:25:46.740
donna are like explaining how the meta crisis is passed on and how it's affected rose and

01:25:47.160 --> 01:25:54.961
you could take from that very much that rose is trans because of all this mucking about that's

01:25:54.980 --> 01:26:03.980
happened and passed down and and done and then when they let it go rose's comment is at last i can

01:26:04.450 --> 01:26:11.900
i can be myself that's not yeah i mean i think i think it was more about the parallels

01:26:12.970 --> 01:26:19.861
yeah the power the parallels about being you know part part-time lord and part human

01:26:20.540 --> 01:26:26.900
and now being fully human so we're part man for a woman doctor is male the hunter is female

01:26:27.200 --> 01:26:36.820
as much exclusively specifically said that so one male one female one non-binary it was it was it

01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:43.240
was not just human time lord it was gender specific but except except there is a line

01:26:43.300 --> 01:26:45.480
that I understood to be about the Doctor saying

01:26:45.700 --> 01:26:46.540
that he was binary.

01:26:47.700 --> 01:26:50.700
And that was one thing that I wondered about

01:26:51.220 --> 01:26:52.260
in terms of the consequences.

01:26:52.480 --> 01:26:54.000
I mean, so basically I should say,

01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:57.100
I just loved this whole storyline

01:26:57.900 --> 01:26:59.640
and the way RTD handles it.

01:26:59.640 --> 01:27:01.160
I think he's brilliant at this stuff.

01:27:01.780 --> 01:27:04.880
But does that mean the Doctor can only be binary,

01:27:05.080 --> 01:27:06.160
can only be a man or a woman?

01:27:06.340 --> 01:27:07.860
That was my question from that.

01:27:07.920 --> 01:27:08.980
I don't know whether that was intended

01:27:08.980 --> 01:27:09.760
to be the implication.

01:27:10.220 --> 01:27:11.780
Well, and then there's the line,

01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:12.740
well, you know,

01:27:13.380 --> 01:27:19.340
there's nothing a male presenting time lord could understand they just point blank said you just

01:27:19.480 --> 01:27:24.560
don't get it dude yeah you're a dude and you can't get it despite the fact that they both know that

01:27:24.590 --> 01:27:30.580
he was a woman just you know yesterday yeah but now he's not so yeah i mean there's no problem

01:27:30.590 --> 01:27:35.240
with line other than what we've already discussed about in terms of in terms of which kind of

01:27:35.460 --> 01:27:41.922
character stuff i i do i kind of feel like the the way that rtd approaches these things he puts

01:27:41.940 --> 01:27:48.960
characters on the screen for them to be seen on the screen and yes he did he did this a lot

01:27:49.380 --> 01:27:56.080
with gay characters in the where you know when he was running the show in the noughties whatever

01:27:56.080 --> 01:28:02.820
we call them and there was all this kind of outrage about the so-called gay agenda which

01:28:02.820 --> 01:28:09.582
was basically just having gay people being on screen visible yeah for no for no particular

01:28:09.600 --> 01:28:15.840
reason other than you know why shouldn't people be gay and that there's a little bit more to

01:28:16.480 --> 01:28:22.580
to kind of rose character being trans in this but it's not other other than their kind of

01:28:23.420 --> 01:28:28.320
contrivances at the end it's not really central to the plot it's just no it's not and it was

01:28:29.739 --> 01:28:37.942
fantastically done until that moment when it's like oh shit did you undermine what you just done

01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:45.460
which was which was a phenomenally good job of showing like i i don't think so i mean if anything

01:28:45.500 --> 01:28:51.940
it was done it was done that there was there were lines in there that might accidentally turn out to

01:28:51.940 --> 01:28:57.900
be problematic later but that's not a given whereas for the for all the fact that i think

01:28:58.060 --> 01:29:04.402
steven moffat's the greatest showrunner doctor who has ever had he did just casually sometimes

01:29:05.040 --> 01:29:12.720
make fun of things and i don't think i you know i don't think rtd does that i think he's

01:29:13.380 --> 01:29:18.320
no he's if if if he's doing it he's very careful he's you know he's trying to be

01:29:19.100 --> 01:29:23.960
well he's trying to show he's trying to trying to show

01:29:34.420 --> 01:29:39.740
that yeah don't make me the problem don't make me the problem just go on and do the job yeah that

01:29:39.860 --> 01:29:46.160
was that was terrific and then and then she's got these cool weapons in her wheelchair and everything

01:29:46.580 --> 01:29:52.040
yeah no absolutely yeah well i am i am still looking forward to the wild blue yonder or

01:29:52.340 --> 01:29:58.022
whatever it turns out to be called i think it's going to be called the 14 doctors but that's just

01:29:58.500 --> 01:30:03.520
you know i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna make two predictions they've blown their cgi budget

01:30:03.760 --> 01:30:10.520
budget on recreating all the old doctors so i've i've already put on the record that i think

01:30:11.280 --> 01:30:16.840
that we will see some previous doctors probably previous doctors certainly previous companions

01:30:17.340 --> 01:30:25.342
in the toy maker episode and i'm also going to predict the boss is the toy maker toy maker i

01:30:25.360 --> 01:30:32.080
yeah yeah i'm also gonna predict the next episode is called i'm gonna predict the next episode is

01:30:32.120 --> 01:30:41.120
called wild blue yonder okay okay i i feel like i may have heard that from a cast member that said

01:30:41.700 --> 01:30:46.600
they couldn't use the name because it's too much of a giveaway but the real name it's actually

01:30:46.840 --> 01:30:53.482
wild blue yonder of the daleks yeah see there you go well and i also i have also heard a cast

01:30:53.500 --> 01:31:00.220
members say and i think it was david tenet uh in an interview that you know we we shut a lot of this

01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:09.500
indoors where we can bring in guests act artists that as surprises could be companions could be

01:31:10.340 --> 01:31:17.040
okay if on the on the basis i i know we should stop talking because it it'll be airing next

01:31:17.140 --> 01:31:23.420
week's episode will be airing but on the basis that you're right i'm just going to express

01:31:24.280 --> 01:31:29.680
that i would like to see jodie whittaker back if we're going to have previous doctors even though

01:31:29.780 --> 01:31:37.000
she's only just gone because i'd like to see the tenant whittaker dynamic i'd also i i would love

01:31:37.020 --> 01:31:43.902
it if paldy were in the mix too i hope he is yeah if we're getting previous doctors yeah i think the

01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:51.100
best we can hope for is maybe eight on but uh yeah well we know we're not getting eccleston back

01:31:51.760 --> 01:31:57.000
okay oh yeah i know he hates rtd but you know i don't know maybe nick briggs

01:31:57.620 --> 01:32:01.880
guarantee i think you can guarantee among the doctors we're not getting back are eccleston

01:32:01.880 --> 01:32:07.842
and hurt for different reasons yes yes i was sure it was not coming back but he's not the doctor

01:32:08.540 --> 01:32:15.260
so tom baker won't come back yeah so um but there's like i said remember the whole strike

01:32:15.380 --> 01:32:22.220
was over ai and and disney in those studios recreating people digitally and uh you know

01:32:22.520 --> 01:32:30.060
they've got the technology they did it with peter uh cushing rogue rogue a fair few years ago now

01:32:30.420 --> 01:32:36.161
so it's possible i hate it so i don't want to do that they've got all the doctors there in the

01:32:36.180 --> 01:32:42.460
computer just waiting to come out and recreate their missing episodes for us anyway all right

01:32:42.460 --> 01:32:48.620
well let's leave it there and uh give me a little time to get this posted for our patrons early and

01:32:49.340 --> 01:32:58.860
we'll be talking about uh whatever it's called yes i like that or the cyber wild blue yonder

01:32:58.930 --> 01:33:05.122
of the daleks that would be all right yeah simon thank you for joining me it's a pleasure as always

01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:07.020
but at least there's

01:33:07.600 --> 01:33:09.300
I do hope you'll join us all again next time

01:33:09.920 --> 01:33:10.840
on Fusion Patrol

01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:14.620
you've been listening to Fusion Patrol

01:33:14.980 --> 01:33:15.680
thanks for listening

01:33:16.160 --> 01:33:17.320
if you've enjoyed this episode

01:33:17.460 --> 01:33:19.080
we hope you'll consider supporting us at

01:33:19.280 --> 01:33:21.220
buymeacoffee.com slash Fusion Patrol

01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:23.860
or patreon.com slash Fusion Patrol

01:33:24.700 --> 01:33:25.600
for our monthly

01:33:25.820 --> 01:33:27.480
Patreon subscribers we're currently

01:33:27.660 --> 01:33:29.680
running a special series on Babylon 5

01:33:30.699 --> 01:33:31.620
come join the

01:33:31.820 --> 01:33:33.842
conversation in the comments section of this episode

01:33:33.880 --> 01:33:35.240
at FusionPatrol.com.

01:33:35.960 --> 01:33:36.800
You'll also find there

01:33:36.920 --> 01:33:38.780
over a decade of past episodes.

01:33:40.260 --> 01:33:41.580
You can find some of our other works

01:33:41.900 --> 01:33:43.780
at SoundCloud.com slash Fusion Patrol.

01:33:45.580 --> 01:33:46.940
Our music is Fight the Future

01:33:47.420 --> 01:33:48.020
by Amber Wolf.

01:33:49.320 --> 01:33:51.100
This has been a Lone Locust production.