You know, I sometimes think of my my
brain as a culinary box, and there's all
this stuff up there and all I have
to do is call on the memory for
those things and I've cooked for so many
years. I've been cooking for 50 years.
It's it's memory muscle. It's not just a
memory like, oh, I remember being a kid
and being in a bike. It's not just
like It's remembering...
You're remembering, like, it's sort of a process
of
choosing where you're going
I'd like some vanilla with that, or I'd
like some hot sauce with that. Alright right?
No. Not that. I wouldn't let use that.
I would use this instead. It's like a
musician moving notes around in their mind before
they
release a song.
Behind every amazing flavor is an amazing human
who has perfect their craft.
Welcome to flavors unknown, a series of inspirational
conversations with renowned culinary leaders.
Discover how their cultural identity shapes their creative
process.
With your hosts, emmanuel.
Welcome to another episode of the flavors unknown
podcast.
The podcast that takes you behind the kitchen
doors of America's most innovative chefs.
I'm am Host, Emmanuel La roche. I have
been in a food industry for more than
20 years both in europe and in Us
and every other week, I have genuine conversation
with a claim chefs, pastry 3 chefs and
mix from around the Us.
And today,
We have a true coronary legend joining us.
He is the pioneer of New world Cuisine,
a celebrated author
and a mentor to many in a world.
I am talking about
none other than Chef Norman van.
In this episode, we do delve 2 She
Van incredible journey, from his early influences
and the pivotal moments that shaped his car
year
to the innovative fusion of old world and
new world cuisine that he's famous for.
So whether you're foodie an inspiring chef or
just someone who loves a good story.
Stay tuned for an
Pact with inside
inspiration, and a whole lot of flavors.
Hi, Chef. How are you? I'm good and
emmanuel. Thank you. How are you?
I am very good, and I'm very honored
to have you on show of flavors are
unknown. That's very excited to to have a
conversation with you today. I'm looking forward to
it.
So I I want to go back, you
know, before we go about talk about all
your experiences.
Can you share a bit about the early
life and how you first became, you know,
interested in cooking? Well, looking back, I could
see
the in inter automations of it as a
from my childhood days because of the way
I was fascinated with flavors and and food
that my mother would make or, you know,
she was She was 1 of those people
that would make her own strawberry jam and
Cherry jelly and put up tomatoes, and she
was she was quite the the home cooked,
she was not at all, you know, in
in the business as a chef. So so
from very early on remember,
loving that, loving food, loving being in the
kitchen with my sisters and my mom, just
doing the simple tasks that we would do,
but it it was
the furthest thing from my mind, even up
to the age of
20
that food would be something I would do
as profession. You know I mean, I'm a
little bit before,
perhaps some of the guests as far as
cryo goes.
And the the conversation as far as becoming
a wasn't part of the American
dialogue in the 19 sixties and seventies. I
mean, the shifts that were talked about, maybe
the, you know, a few on television like
Julia child or the Gallo court gourmet kind
of things. Those were... You know, those were
far away to me as, you know, being
a cowboy or being, you know, a space
in in a space program or something. So
it wasn't it wasn't there. Now,
ironically, though, in some ways, it could have
been there my mother was in the restaurant
business.
My mom and Dad separated when I was
9, and my mom had to go
into the work force again. Mh. And and
this was just where she met my father
when before they married. She was a Waitress.
And so she got into back into the
business, she always loved it. She always loved
the cam
to the the hospitality, the people. She was
made for it really.
Occasionally, I would, you know, I would I
would go to her job and wait for
her to get off work or something do
my homework and in the booth, you know,
with between the shifts or something like that.
But still. I mean, it wasn't it was
not at all in my mind to be
in the in a cook.
Until I had
realized that college was
over for me, and I I'd I'd I'd
worked... I went to college over for a
little while, but it was also supposed to
say out of going to, you know, to
war. And there might some the people that
I I went to high school with went
the warren didn't come back. And so I
was I was not interested in that. But
finally, the war
you know, ended. And and I began to
have to work and get jobs and only
thing I was really qualified before was we're
blue collar jobs, you know, factories and things
like that. I hated them. I I had
a slew of them. And then after
1
Nasty day being a hot roof.
I was fired for enjoying a rains storm
and to realize
that my celebration was short lived because I
needed to make rent. And so I answered
a job in a newspaper for a short
order cook and it said no experience necessary,
and that became the title of my memoir
30 years later.
No experience. Sorry. So I took the job.
It was it was in the the the
very town I was born in, was the
next town over from where I lived and
I became a short order cook at the
age 21.
And while it was nothing like, you know,
being a chef, it was it was the
beginning. You know, it was the it's the
beginning of my path.
Professional. Okay.
Were they, like, pivotal moments and or mentors
that you know, you cross path, like early
in your carrier that's
gets shaped, you know, your path. Yes. You
as the chef.
Yes, but it was in... Know. I I
sometimes we'll tell my chefs how remarkably
slow growth will be in the beginning. You
know, the things said people wanna see happen
quickly don't happen so quickly. So the answer
is, yes.
We have have... Well we we all need
to have mentors I never worked... I never
went to cooking school. I never worked for
anyone who was in a magazine
on television or famous in any way.
But I... But by my third or fourth...
I started to have mentors and and Emmanuel
when I wrote my memoir, IIIW
those people into the memoir, as as is
because they were
teachers to me. But they were...
You know, 1 was on African American gentleman
who was a navy cook that was my...
Who taught me some things about cooking as
my second job, and an all my barbecue
place, in key west that had no walls.
It was just, you know, it's just thrown
together sort of a building, Jimmy Buffett played
there as a as an unknown 6 string
guitar player a couple times. It was just
very, very cash. Well, the next
the next mentor, I'd say was, I went
back to Illinois.
I had rather elliptical relationship with trying to
figure out where I was going to live.
And I worked in a in that had
a a fine restaurant, sort of, like, holding
on to the glory days of France and
a lot of it was a a lot
of chic in the sense that it wasn't...
You know, and the way they maybe called
something V Or off, which was a long
way from V Or off, You know? They
they they band about these, the the fine
the fine dining, the fine cuisine names, but
they were taking short shortcuts cuts. But there
was a Japanese man that worked there who
had at 1 point in time been the
chef, but he got cancer, and he was
dying,
but his
approached cuisine with something because he didn't work
the regular schedule. He had time to to
talk to me, and I was, you know,
25 years old, and and we was... We
would be able to take a break in
the afternoon and drink his teas.
And so he would sometimes fix me something.
He couldn't eat because of his cancer. I
mean, he He needed to eat, like milk
trick milkshake deep weight on, but he was
my first mentor, this Japanese chef named Tokyo
Su.
And his his, you know, never had a
Cookbook, never was on Tv, but, man he
knew his stuff, and he had a huge
effect on me and and and and I
think he opened to me up the idea
of of eastern
foods early on Eastern ingredients. And so that
was really big.
You know, obviously, we are going to jump
because so I cannot spend, you know, all
the time where I should, you know, really,
that can every step you know, of your
car year because you had, a fantastic career,
but long, you know, you add... You have
been credited, you know, to
with pure... Pioneering like, the new world cuisine.
So what will inspired you to develop, you
know, this unique style.
Timing was really good. America was going through
a a big change around 19
76 with
the Bi, And I think Americans were beginning
to think of themselves as having... You know,
they were looking to to
have have
their own style of cuisine in the restaurants.
We, you know, we had a huge period
of
of of European
cuisine being the most wanted.
But we began to see the Southwestern Cuisine
food movement, New Orleans,
things like this, California food movement, obviously,
being in Key west, I
I was very fascinated by what was being
done in the United States with people interpreting
food the way they were interpreting it, and
it occurred me that
we were ripe for doing the same thing
in South Florida. And so my timing was
was was such that I decided that as
opposed to going somewhere else and being part
of part of the Southwestern food movement or
the California from. I decided to stick my
flag in the ground here in Florida ends.
And and and
and with my menus,
try to give voice to
displace.
And this was really like the the confluence
of
what's what's happening with the local ingredients and
obviously seafood food ingredients, you know, in Florida,
but as well, the influences for what Cuba,
the caribbean beans and Latin America. That's a
little bit that,
you know, palette that you play with. Absolutely.
I think it I was really lucky also
to landed first in key west where
very... There there wasn't
cosmopolitan
dining. They're... You know, there... It was really...
You know, it was really more rustic in
Key west. And that was good because it
it gave me a chance to see cuban
food straight up,
Food, haitian food, and I was still, you
know, very, very young and very, very green.
But going to even the grocery store and
and seeing the condiments that would been on
the shelves for the for the families and
the way they would cook because
of their their long ties between Cuba
and bahamas, and especially. And then when I
got to to Miami, it accelerated greatly because
there were so many more influences from the
Latin countries here in Miami and also became
fodder for me to to
differentiate myself from the cooking that was happening
in other parts of the world.
So I mean, preparing this conversation, I've read
that as it back in 19 93. So
I was not even considering coming to the
Us. But you you describe that the southern
tip, you know, of Florida being the culinary
nexus, Mh. Connecting like various you know, rich
culture cuisine that you just described? Mh. So
now if you fall, fast forward today, how
do you feel about, you that statement, you
know, today, and do you think that he's,
has change evolved?
What's your thoughts about it?
Oh, very much. I think, you know, I
think we continue to change to evolve. And
if we don't, we'll get run over. Mh.
Yeah. That that that quote lives on the
bank... Has lived on the back of my
menus for many, many years, The map quote
is what we call it for short, and
it just came to me in a conversation
with a friend, you know, using the map
of the world as a table clock was
the metaphor.
Yeah. I think that emmanuel, I think that
being located here at the tip of Southern
Florida.
Gives us a real...
It's like being in a at a lighthouse
in a way we're able to look out
and see and and and be affected by
so much South American and Central America, and
the Caribbean all of that. I mean, I
think it was my fifth or 6 cookbook
book, I wrote called
New World Kitchen.
That I I went... You know, I I
that book covers
recipes from over 30 countries. So that was
a huge learning curve for me. And and
I... And and it was a great opportunity
for me to learn
from the community because by going around to
the restaurants and the markets here in South
Florida,
I got much more deeply into it than
I... And than if I had not written
that book and I maintained sort of the
isolation of the kitchen. Because In many ways,
when you're a professional chef, you know, there's...
I think there's a mythology that you're... You
know, the people think that you're, you know,
you're always flying here and there,
And
really, much of your life is built around
getting ready for service and in and developing
your menus and getting the the product in
and all of those different things that take
time, but by writing the book while at
the restaurant and able to put the... Put
menu items together from the research, just gave
me a greater opportunity to dive in more
and more deeply.
How how would you define and and describe
your your culinary philosophy,
you know, and how it evolves you know,
over the years? Early on, III think I
was really struck by... I've been very much
affected by writers and song writers. People who
could...
Who could who could put down on paper
and thought at least, you know, the the
idea of bringing...
Stories to life, really important. And and and
and and some of the writers including Thornton
Wilder who wrote our town and I just
I was in that play in high school
A as a very young person in high
school. And so I kinda get a chance...
I had a chance to really delve into
the place of that, which is
kind of arc cane. But Faulkner in particular,
as an American writer and in in some
degree hemingway many too. But Faulkner, almost all
of his is
his stories to place in a single county.
And and and by bearing down on that
specifics of South Florida,
me from Key west through Miami and Now
Orlando, but by focusing on Florida, I I
feel like I was able to give much
greater, get much greater into the depth of
it.
And and enjoy watching a a piece of
your... 1 of your earlier interviews with with
nina Compton who spent time... Yeah. Which... Yeah.
That's... She mentioned you as, you know, as
her mentor. Yeah. Of kind. Yeah. I mean...
But her... In her story, as you know
from from, not only... I'm... Your your research,
which you must do a lot of for
your shows because I've seen some of the
some of these shows from her from your
research, you know, you know, how San lucia
was so
it remains a giant effect on her. I
tried to do the same thing. I I
tried to teach her that, and I think
she
did learn very very well. But I I
tried to do the same thing with the
others that have come through my kitchens and
aren't in my kitchen now, but I tried
to get them to understand how
much it matters to what we put on
our menu needs to tell the story of
where we are. And with new cuisine
representing
the idea of how Columbus came here in
search of India and the shorter route to
the spice markets so he could, you know,
make money. For the cancun queen of Spain
by doing so, how how those
the reverberation in history were extraordinary
and we can... We have so much to...
So much materials to work with by
utilizing that
that point of view.
I know I, 1 for a long time
about all these things. So rein me in
with your next question. No. No. No. No.
III think it's fascinating, and you know, I
had a lot of guests on the show
that's we're exactly talking about, like, you know,
the same philosophy of fee and and really
anchoring their their approach to cooking
with, like, the the roots of the place
that's, you know, they decided to
locate, you know, their their restaurants. So... But
I always like to have a specific example.
So can you,
maybe illustrate, you know, that specific, you know,
approach, you know, with
unique ingredients that you
identified throughout the years, you know, in from
South Florida?
Yes. Actually, I... That's an excellent question. If
I have known about it, I probably would
have had this list of 16 ingredients, because
during 1 point, My career I was teaching
also at Miami dade College, And and they
asked me to to come up with some
some essay material if you will. And so,
yes. That is this the the the the
the discovery
of these dishes, and the vocabulary that goes
with these dishes was very influential to me.
When you asked that question and the first
thing that entered my mind was Mo.
I had no idea what Mo was when
I was kid growing up in the Midwest,
But, you know, I I learned that it
was something that was treated with reference, by
the people, especially Caribbean people.
And and but being the person I am
not
not sort of like formatted by, you know,
the rigid rules of of a family
saying, well, this is how you use mo
and this is the only way you use
mo. This is the way your grandmother and
her great grandmother and that brother. This is
how they did it. I I was taken
with the idea of it
from an ingredient or from a sauce standpoint.
But I was working with some shrimp 1
day,
and still not understanding why people were
people who were native to hear Cuba were
so in love with Yu,
you know, boil... Many peep many guests may
many blisters may not know, but you guys
is, like a potato, like Caribbean potato. But
in
the Caribbean
home cooking, you could would be, like, a
boiled
starch,
dressed with mo. And to me, that was,
like,
what's the excitement there? But if you grow
up with something, you know, if you grow
up in the south, you're gonna have, you
know, grits with some butter and salt and
pepper, you're gonna be very happy. So many
instances of this. But I was working with
the the shrimp 1 day, and I... In
my mind, I mean, we're cleaning the shrimp,
taking you know, splitting it and taking the
van out. And I
somebody had made
Yu for staff meal. And I thought, Well,
but if I smashed up some You and
put it into that that that wedge right
there. And then
krista, neil know, pan Crisp and then served
it with mo. I'd have my ko,
but act within the elegance and haute cuisine
of the shrimp. And so there are many
examples
of that rushed 1,
but if how
through my through my minds
imagination. Through the imagination of my mind, I
was able to to sometimes twist things around
keeping the roots of it there, but also,
celebrating it in a slightly different way and
and giving it a different
feeling,
different
positioning. And that when it's done right, I
think that the diner, even the diner who
may have been a traditional will go. I've
never had Uti like that. I've never had
mobile like that and I noah,
When my staff talks about something they never
want me to take off the menu. That's
1 of the top 5.
And do you think that
because you didn't grow up with Mo or
Uc,
then it allows you, you know, to
have more freedom, you know, for creativity,
you know, around those ingredients and come up
with something, you know, outside of the box.
Absolutely.
I didn't grow up with, you know, you're
from France. I didn't grow up with Fu.
Nobody did. We... We weren't allowed to import
Fa out the United States.
Until around 19 90, you know, every every
bit of fraud before that was in a
can. But when when the law changed, and
Fda allowed us has begin to use Fuck
g well, I created something called my Down
island French toast,
and that is a a preparation that I
don't think any Frenchman ever came up with.
No. Why where is that 1? Because I
don't think I've seen it this 1?
It's a it's a mash up between my
mother's
way of making French toast, and most mother's
way of making French toast for that matter.
When you're when you have your mother's French
toast. I mean, it's large in your memory
and large in your heart. And so I
kept that part of it, but as opposed
to just serving the pieces of bread that
had been dipped in egg and grid,
in between the bread, which in this case
is B,
I had marinated
fa
in in triple sec,
with the nutmeg and cl,
and and vanilla bean and zest of orange
and let that sit overnight, and then take
out the marinade
these are on the wafers now.
Sear it
and
keep that beautiful
butter,
texture
and then put that between the slices of
the French toast. And then for the sauce
instead of a maple syrup, I made a
a savory passion fruit caramel sauce. Oh, wow.
And so it's it's kind of a it's
kind of a
a brunch dish, but people, you know, they...
Yeah. They have a... Fantastic. I've had people
commitment for dessert.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah no. I can't Understand
that. Yeah. Yeah And every fact now, we
find friends some places that have 4 going
ice cream. Boys? Yeah. For. So, yeah, Why
not. Oh, yeah. That sounds delicious. By the
way. You love to try it.
I'm.
I said to you, I'm not going to
be there, you know, not in not in
few days. So
generally speaking that's what are your main source
is of of inspiration when you create, like,
you know, creating deck dish on the menu?
Memory and
produce, the ingredients,
nature, that, you know, the things whether it's
a beautiful
Sc up or it's some herbs or it's
the memory of things that, you know, that
that I've experienced before. I You know, I
sometimes think of my my brain as a
culinary box, and there's all this stuff up
there and all I have to do is
call on the memory for those things and
because I've cooked for... You know,
I've cooked for so many years. I've been
cooking for 50 years.
So I've soaked me in memories of... And
it's it's memory muscle. It's not just a
memory like, oh, I remember being a kid
to being in a bike. It's not just
like, it's remembering...
You're remembering, like, it's sort of a process
of
choosing where you're going,
I'd like some vanilla with that. Or, I'd
like some hot sauce with that. Or alright?
No Not that. I wouldn't let use that.
I would use this instead. It's like a
musician moving notes around in their mind before
they
release the song.
I I want to talk to you about,
you know, the
the Tv show that you had the... There
was, like, a hit on the Amazon Prime.
You know, the Norman Florida kitchen. So Yeah.
So what inspired you to to create this
series and, you know, what what do you
hope like, the viewers, you know, to take
away from it?
It always comes back to the same thing
and whether it's through the books or through
my radio show that I did for years
not like your radio show different. But it's
always about
sharing the excitement of cooking that I want
to convey to them. In the... When I
was given the opportunity to do this shell
norman Florida kitchen, it was It was through
Blacks stone
products which they make beautiful grid
and that's outdoor cooking equipment.
And so the person who is 1 of
the main content creators for Blacks stone, Nathan
Lip, but he and I met years ago
at 1 of the food shows in Atlanta,
and get much younger than me kind of
a fan. He told me and,
you know, of my books and things like
that. Well, his life evolved and he became
move from being a chef to being more
of a a video creation person. And so
he asked me if I would be interested
in doing some series with them, And so
that's how that got...
That's how that began. But we always... I
mean, he knew and I knew that if
I was gonna do that, I was gonna
do it around my subject, match which is
gonna be Florida,
and New world cuisine,
fusion cuisine, but at a on a home
cooking level. I mean, I'm not trying to
do dishes
for this thing that would be, you know,
with a group of 12 chefs, you know,
sporting tweezers.
So I mean, the the the places, you
know, that covered from, you know, from Key
west to Little Havana and so on. So
how how did you come up with
like, the... Those specific recipes and and the
location that are featured.
It's just kind of a natural flow, you
know, being in the right, you know, being
in Key west, when you know, we touched
on the key lime pie, and we were
out there fish... With the fishermen fishermen, and,
jade, those things are really organic. They just
happened there is
you've got so much material that you've already
got, you know, you've... In your rep repertoire
and when you're in a... Well, like, when
we I don't know if you saw this
1 part where we're a Asian market, and
I bought I got some some King Trumpet
mushrooms, and I'd made a barbecue. I'm not
a miso barbecue for carrots. And and all
those were not ideas that we went in
ahead of going to that market is by
really. Not like being in the market and
going...
Okay. Let's get the stuff, now how is
normally Van can gonna...
How is he going to interpret those products?
Okay? So do you have any behind the
scenes stories or memorable moments
when you were filming, you know, that there.
Well, I'll tell you. For most of those...
Things. They... If they read the memoir, they're
gonna read stories like what the night I
fell out of Jimmy Buffett window. Meeting
Tennessee Williams after
a play that we were at a party
at this house and he kissed me, and
there's a lot of things that were in
the memory that were... They might not expect
for, you know, a serious chef.
You you have been, obviously in the query
scene, you know, for decades aids. And you
have seen a lot of trends, you know,
come come and go. So
what's your take on the the current states,
you know, on the... In the food industry
today?
That's a good question. That's a big question.
You know, I feel real I was really...
I've used this term lucky a few times
in this conversation emmanuel, but I still feel
like that's it's the right term. I feel
really lucky to be in the in the
in the in the sweep of time that
I've been
involved with and remain involved with. In that,
American cuisine really found its voice for the
first
time in in the ways that it did
in in the seventies eighties and nineties,
nothing can stay the same. I mean,
the success of the business, the, you know,
the
chefs becoming famous
enough to have restaurants in 12 different places
in the world to have
products to have all of these things. This
was not even
you know, there this could not almost have
been imagined back in the 19 sixties or
something like that.
III feel a little bit sorry for in
some ways for the chefs who are are...
I mean in their thirties right now or
forties right now because
it's so much more of a crowded field
and they're sort of up... Well, you know,
it's it it's lost some of the innocence
and some of the some of them...
Just openness, I guess, you know, and there's
so much competition for attention? You know, how
many viewers do you have on Instagram or
you know, you know, do you have an
agent or all the things that I think
change, you know, kinda changed the,
this
the simple beauty of it is is... Some
that's some that's really being overrun, You know,
and there's all, you know, this whole thing
about the 50 best restaurants in the world.
I mean, how that... What does... You know,
what does it come from? What is your
best? What like, somebody asking me my 50
favorite songs of all time. I... You know,
it'd be a list that I could make
up, and the next day wouldn't be true
anymore. You know, it's... We live in this
other. We live in a naval gazing world
in many ways that I and I think
it's
harder.
For for the chefs who are in their,
you know, doing earnest work they're in their
thirties, their forties, and and and they're trying
to do the best work of their lives.
And then, of course, you know, when the
pandemic came, I mean, what, what a giant
kick in the guts, that was for for
many of Men know, people who worked in
my kitchens and we're by this time now
have been I had their own restaurants, but
I saw them having to put their their
beautiful creations in a box to be able
to sell it to somebody so they could
stay afloat.
You know, I I was... I didn't have
to do that with when I was in
the
at that age for myself, and I my
heart goes out
But we are now, you know, thankfully, past
those days.
Yeah. But I think in many ways, we're,
you know, we're, you know, the the... The
hard thing now for is is to find
the staff that we used to be able
to get much more easily.
You are mentioning
you know, the
the acceleration of things, the
the,
you know, the whole aspect of,
being, you know,
putting your fingerprint, you know, being exposed. And,
at the same time, I see with the
new generation of individuals, you know, this idea
of
moving fast you know, through their car year,
and you were mentioning earlier in in our
conversations that people need to take the time.
Yeah. You know, to,
develop their craft and and, you know, step
by step, you know, elevate themselves. But it
seems that with all the conversation that I
have with the chef in there, the 30
forties that you are mentioning,
that in fact a hard time to keep,
you know, some of their workforce because, you
know, especially with what they see on Tv
and chefs becoming
more, let's say, less a blue collar job
and more, you know, giving white color opportunities.
They they want to accelerate and, you know,
they don't want to stay too long in
in 1 place. So what's what's your take
on that? The only tool I have in
the toolkit is
that that I think really makes a big
difference to them since I don't have the
kind of
money that, you know, you you could
let's say, you know, a, a private chef
could be paid a lot of money of
who was working for, I don't know, a
a vast hotel where they've got all kinds
of convention business. Line cooks that make more
money than than I could have trump making,
you know, But we... But we'd offer manual
more than anything else's
education.
Many of my...
Many people who come to work with me,
20 years ago would say the same thing
over and over again, working with. Working at
Norman was, like, culinary school,
but I got paid to go. So I
could... I know my time after time I,
you come here and you're a line cook.
You come 3 years from now, you're gonna
be able to be a line cook who
became a so chef, and then 2 more
years, a so sushi chef who became the
chef cuisine scene. You know, it's not like
you're gonna go on the slow
drift up to the middle class,
you can, if you really work hard and
you hit the books and you... Put in
the time and you really pay attention. You
can go from, you know, your hourly wage
to a good living wage, and a good
salary and the opportunity to maybe have your
own place 1 day by
the same way I did. I didn't... You
know, I did it by
work and reading.
How do you stay relevant in this industry?
You know, when you look back on all
the years. You know, that you have been
working.
Stay curious.
Okay? Absolutely. You know, that's that's been my
fountain of youth when it comes to,
not the physical world, but the spiritual world
and the and the and the creative world
is who remain curious. I mean,
you know, there... You you have you have
the opportunity every day that you're out in
out in the world when you're in... Whether
you're at a, you know,
at the local grocery store or whether you're
on a a fortunate trip to India, or
whether you're reading an amazing book or you're
having
the chance to do a pop up with
some friends you've never cope with before,
asking questions,
being, you know, being
in ac, you know, I'm curious. I think
this is this is the most important thing.
I can
some people... You know, it seems like they
get to be 3 or 40 or 50
years old, and they're like, okay. Well I
know how to be a chef?
Well, you know, why did you put it,
you know? Why is that in a box?
50 I mean, do you think that Faulkner
said at 50. He knows how to be
a writer?
But it I've I think it was, like,
Michel. Maybe it was a quote said I'm
beginning to learn. I'm just we learn, you
know? And and I... That is very striking
to me. So of course, I know how
to, you know, I can I can cook
plenty? I can cook,
you know, I've cooked for some amazing chefs.
I've cooked for some amazing human beans, but
my favorite thing to cook is the next
thing. You said that you you cook for,
you know, a lot of very
well known, you know, individuals. Do you have,
like, a 1 of the best memory of...
Cooking for someone that's,
you know, you got in mind? Yeah. Freddie
Year day. Mh. Julia child.
Maya angelo.
Okay. Well, frances for Cop.
I mean, there... I could
Yeah. At least his log. I understand. And
and bear in from different fields too not
just, you know, not just cuisine, but artists,
some that would be famous some I'm not,
But some that were artists that would made
a big difference to me that maybe not
as,
you know, name recognition is the ones I've
just mentioned, But... So just
you know, the the bubble of it, you
know, I talked about Jimmy Buffett before. But,
yeah, I mean,
Jimmy lived next door where I was the
chef for a while. So he... We fed
him all glass of people. Yeah.
What do you believe is, like, the legacy
that you are leaving behind in the union
Yards? I'm not leaving.
I'm not seeing this, but what is the...
What is like the, you know, the don't
know if it's the ambition, but at least,
you know, what you what you would like
to leave as, you know, your fingerprints on
your mark on the on the industry or
the people...
You know, to to keep in mind? Yes.
I'm not saying that you are leaving. Right
nuts. I had at all. I kidding.
Who knows when we leave. We do not
know. 1 word... I think
emmanuel, I think for sure is a combination
of he he gave voice to Florida. He
He he wrote an essay that became a
speech
and a phrase that's called Fusion cooking that
traveled the world.
And it remains in the world 30 years
later.
He was a good he was a good
teacher and a fair boss. You know, those
are things I'd like to have people say.
Very good. So I'm I'm going to switch
to the the rapid fire question. So
better You and I
going on.
Sorry. I better get some espresso or something.
No don't worry.
You you and I are going on a
tasting tour in Miami. So where are you
going to take me to 5 spots that
you are going to take me to?
Oh my gosh.
I can't
I can't play favorites. You know, but I
mean I, but it doesn't have to be
favorite, but that maybe places that you like
to go as well, you know? And I
can't if I mentioned a rest that Restaurant
and there's gonna be 3 people that used
to work with for me that are gonna
be, like, how come you didn't mention my
restaurant. You know, I... It's it's drunk this
is not any a quick answer at all.
But, yeah. I've been able to... I'm putting
together...
It's a a long answer sort of... I'm
sorry, but it's gonna... I have to tell
you,
The Ja penn foundation is putting together a
an amazing tribute to the Chef's life called
90 for 90 where they'll be 90,
different events,
a coincides with 90 birthday.
Okay. From coast to coast and different levels,
you know, from haute cuisine, high end
months like Danielle or, the French laundry or
whatever. They asked me if I would put
together a restaurant... High end risk... High end
dinner celebrations in Miami and another 1 in
Orlando. So with the Miami, what maybe me
think of this was I was able to
make a selection of the 6 chefs that
we will each get to do a dish.
Oh, great. And that way, I get to
recognize, you know, them and and help and
have them be a part of honoring chef
the pen. So that's that's kind of a...
That's a nice thing. But to try and
get back to your aunt... Your question,
manual. I mean, 1 of the 1 of
the places that I would say is a
farm stand called Robert is here.
It's got a very unusual name I know
and and and and and it's... But it's
in the name of this place for 60
something years. And Robert's is a real person,
and it's just a fantastic
farm standard started off with a card cardboard
table on a side of a road with
some
watermelon and some... Cucumbers on it when he
was selling just that 1 item. But through
that became this family business, that would be
a place I would have to take you
to.
I would take you to the cuban restaurant
that's very almost within walking distance of our
home called... And Get this. Why? I mean,
there's a there's a number of really good
cuban restaurants that are... That I could take
you to. Not as many as there might
have been 25 years ago, but I'm not
saying it's the best cuban restaurant, but it's
it's it's it's
it's the classic old Mh family owned cuban
restaurant. That's part of the neighborhood.
I would take you to the original
cuban
fruit and vegetable stand called
H, the palace of juices. And and I
went there. I was taken there by a
and man that owned the hotel that gave
me my first chance to begin to cook
in Miami after leaving Key west and coming
to Miami.
I I was hired to work at this
hotel on South Beach and should drive the
Betsy Ross. And he took me over there
his in this white cadillac 1 day, and
it just blew my mind.
To see this Caribbean market in full flower,
and it's... There they have various outposts of
them now but. It is... It's not just
you know, not just fruit and vegetables. It's
also, like, they've got hot food and sandwiches
and coffee, and... And and juice drinks, but
to those that kind of thing.
Alright. III can't. I can't. I tripped up
over the whole idea of of telling you
a restaurant though.
What else can I tell you a place?
But maybe you can mention, like, the Us
saying that you are working with the 6
chefs, you know, for this Yeah. Separation of
90. So maybe you can... I'm we can
mention that. Love to mention the the foundation.
That you cannot out at the moment.
I could out what. Mentioned why I can
I can mention some of them?
Yeah, places that we would go would be
to show you why I selected 6 ships
to perform if you will, with me for
a celebration of the life of Chef Ja,
It's called 90 for 90, and we'll be
doing a a very elegant dinner in Miami
at the restaurant called Syria, which is a
new restaurant town.
The the the founding chef of Syria operates
out of Lisbon where he's got a 2
star, a Michelin restaurant there. His chef Cuisine
Miguel Mass is is going to be on
the ground... On the crown with me in
the kitchen that night along with a Michael
Belt train and Michael Schwartz, and those are
3 Michaels. By the way, Just didn't really.
Yep. There'll be 6 of us in in
total, and I'm very excited about that.
So K doing doing pastries.
Yeah. So I would I would love... Actually,
I haven't been that restaurant. Yeah because it's
that new, but Miguel was my chef cuisine
seen for a period of time, so I
know him well.
I would wanna go there or else would
I want to go.
I would want to go to a books
and
bookstore, which is the best bookstore in Florida
about yeah. Monday.
And a place that I go to very
often both for Cookbook and for and for
novels,
for novels.
Novel. Okay.
I gotta have books buy me at all
all time. So those are some places that
I would... I I have to send you
mine.
Yeah. I saw that went on your website
website. Yeah. That's great. So maybe I have
nothing that you will learn anyhow.
Most are mine over there and those are
my inspiration over there. Okay. Very good. So
what's your go to guilty pleasure food?
Go you guilty pleasure food.
I guess, you know, like, many chefs we
like something simple after work, you know, I
I... The first thing that came to mind,
I guess is always the best answer so
I'd... I would make some homemade pizza, or
I'd I'd have friend make homemade pizza and
have bottle of wine and some pizza it
be out... If that's guilty I'm guilty.
What's the favorite topping for pizza then for
you?
Have a mushrooms tomato. Cheese happy. So, you
know? I... Yeah. They mean... But they'd have
to be... You know, they'd have to be
good ones. There's no canned mushrooms in this
world for me. Yeah.
So now I ask What is your favorite
mushroom?
Favorite mushroom, and a pizza in general. Now
In half for the pizza?
For the pizza. Mh.
Let's call the Sean charles.
Oh my gosh. Yes. Okay. Yeah. You you
mentioned that name and brings me back to
my youth when I was doing
you know, mushroom picking with for with my
dad. Nice. Beautiful. Yeah. Mushroom, like, Sun and
and more else are like, the cool... 2
magical help from. When when I was asking
of,
you know, about a Busy bean pizza or
not pizza because the number 1 would be
more morales. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. 1.
So what's your biggest pet peeve in the
kitchen?
A lack of respect for ingredients?
Mh.
People who would who
who don't cook with that mindset, that mindfulness
of taking care of the cuisine of taking
you know, these are living things
or recently pulled from nature, they're, you know,
from their life to provide for us. So
if they don't have a sacred attitude toward
the food,
that is a real problem for me. The
way they would handle it. The way they
would cut it, the way they would lean
it, the way they would the way they
would played it, you know, the way they
would they would think about that, you know,
enhancing its flavor instead of d distracting from
its flavor. All of these things would make
me very, very more than pee.
Yeah. I understand. Yeah. It's a it's it's
a it's the sac of
food that's important to mean. Yeah. Number 1.
So that there's is 1 lesson from your
culinary journey that continues to resonate with you
today.
Mh.
Yes.
The the lesson that's number 1 is that
you can learn from anybody.
Okay. You cannot you cannot
tele book by its cover. You never know
who might be showing you something or telling
you something
or sharing something with you that might enlarge
your
your vocabulary, your culinary area aptitude attitude very
much. I was raised that way. My mother
was very much
kind of person who would strike up a
conversation with anybody
and be very interested in what they might
have to offer to say.
Like I said earlier, in in this in
this beautiful conversation with you. She was in
the restaurant business and
she was social, and she would she would
bring people back to our home from time
to time after work or on a day
off, and we would have, you know,
the lady who was from Mexico or the
the Japanese chef or a person who maybe
was from her her neighborhood on New York
City or something. And the the vocabulary and
the conversations about food would be and and
fun and all of that. And it was
her openness. Really, there's a book that Mentioned
wrote that sits on a 1 of the
books shelves over here called the
my home is the world. And I and
I and I think that is that really
that really is what my mom was all
about what is she could
she could make herself feel at home and
and make other people at feel at home
with her so that that hospitality really
is is a is a natural. And and
I... And I... And I... And I try
to... I don't have to try. It's sort
of there. But I... I, you know, when
I come into a situation where maybe somebody's
new to me, I'm... I tried to not
be you know, I've been doing this for
50 years. I try to be, like, you
know, what do you... What do you got?
What do you know? What's what's on your
mind? I wanna I wanna jam with you
if we're if we can?
So the last question I for you is,
you know, your program met throughout your carriers,
people that give a lot of advice, and
sometimes they are not the best ones. So
if there's like, 1 worse advice that you
have seen or heard given in the hospitality
industry.
Bad advice you're asking mh just give it.
Bad advice.
Go for the money.
Go for the money. Okay money. Go for
that money before that before the person has
has given them a chance to given themselves
a chance to go for the wisdom, go
for the the opportunity to learn,
go for the knowledge as opposed to you
just, you know, take take this fast track
to
know, who's ever gonna pay you 50 cents
more.
Okay.
Chef, thank you so much for all this
wisdom.
And all the advice that you have given
and share your your experience. I am really,
you know, pleased that I was able to
have you on the show. So thank you
for your time. Yeah, the honor is mine.
I'm glad that we have Crossed and when
you come to Florida, you know how to
get a hold of man and, please do.
Thank you.
And that wraps up today's episode of the
flavors
podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this Deep dive into
the culinary world of Chef Norman Van as
much as Did.
From his fascinating stories of mentorship and innovation,
to his invaluable tips for home cooking and
travelers,
She can truly embed the spirits of gene
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