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I think of climate change

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solutions as living known spectrum. And on 1

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spectrum is the mitigation side of things. So

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just purely how can we reduce,

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you know, carbon emissions, methane emissions.

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On the other side of the climate spectrum,

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I think of it is the adaptation side,

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which is

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solutions that... Okay. Like, we accept that this

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is gonna happen to some degree, but we

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also know,

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optimistic. The humans will adapt and live in

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the world as it changes.

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That is Jake Fe of free farms. We

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you visited us on farm to table talk

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in 2022.

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Since, we have been covering a spectrum of

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options facing our food system.

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This a good time to

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where controlled environment agriculture may fit in that

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spectrum of farming futures.

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It's time for

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conversations about our food and how it's grown

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on arm to table talk with your host,

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Roger Was.

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Well there's a lot of people you can

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go out and ask what do we need

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in the world? What do we need in

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the country and They'll say we need farms.

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And there seems to be a shortage, maybe

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shortage of farmers. There's a lot of people

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that want a farm.

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A lot of people that feel like they

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need more farms. So people that are concerned

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about

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local food production that could they get more

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just produced locally?

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Well, there's a lot of obstacles to that.

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And my guest today as,

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involved with a project that it's... I think,

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pretty unique in that regard,

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And I wanna welcome Jake Fe with freight

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farms. Hey, Jake, Welcome to Farmer Table talk.

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Thanks for having me.

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Hey, Jake. I wonder if you've ever been

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someplace where they're saying, gee, I wish we

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could farm,

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and you're tempted to jump in and say,

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well,

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we might be able to help you out

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with that.

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I mean, I think all the time,

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you know, you see this all around you

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really, and

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1 of the things that was very interesting

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about the pandemic, I think, and especially the

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early stages of the pandemic was that a

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lot of people in our communities and and

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my community

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went to the grocery store and discovered empty

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shelves,

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because shipping and

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forming was so impacted by that, and

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that was

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an event that really raised awareness and I

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got to have that conversation a lot. I

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feel like,

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and and about what we're doing.

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So did... Now we're gonna talk about what

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you're doing and how that is so tempting

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for you to jump into those conversations and

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saying, well, we've got an idea here. We've

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got something it Well, let's... In fact, let's

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do go back and start at the idea.

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Someone must have

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scratched their head after a while and said,

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I think I think this might work.

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And so now what we're gonna talk about,

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Jake is what is this.

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You might get a hint when we say

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freight farms, which, by the way, the first

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time I saw it I thought that's said

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fright farms. I thought it was just, like

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for Halloween or something. But then I realized

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I had

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not written down the e in the in

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in in the freight.

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So it in freight farms. It's actually actually

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freight farms,

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So let's talk about the... Let's talk about

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the concept.

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What was the idea? What was an inspiration

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that there might be something here that you

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should your company should pursue.

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Absolutely. Yeah. So freight forms actually started about

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10 or 11 years ago.

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When we a comparative newcomer in the

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in the Ce space at the time, like,

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it was a very small industry. There weren't

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really anybody else doing this,

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back in 20 11:20 12 when freight firms

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got started,

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And the idea originally came from,

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our founders,

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John and Brad, They were... Working on trying

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to find ways to make agriculture accessible to

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everyone. And where they originally started was looking

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deeply at rooftop gardens and cities,

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and trying to make rooftop gardens into vegetable

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producing

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areas,

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And now that that... You know, it seems

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like a good idea and it would be

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a great thing, but it's actually really, really

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hard to make

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rooftop.

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Economics work, basically.

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There's a lot of barriers to getting

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plants on roofs. There's zoning, there's

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labor, every roof is different.

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It's just a very hard challenge.

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And so they ended up settling on the

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shipping container as a really good method

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standardization. Shipping containers are already

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used all over the world. That's sort the

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most common

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way of transcript porting goods around, So it

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seemed very logical to put the farm inside

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the shipping container and move the farm not

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the food.

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And so the idea was really born out

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of porting that and they desire to make

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farming accessible to everyone. And we figured that

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if we could make the farm

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easy to move around

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and it's a a sort of fixed products

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that we can scale and make cheaply,

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then it's something that many more people can

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can use. And over the last 10 years,

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we've gone through many, many generations of farm,

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and

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really honed our technology into what it is

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today,

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which is premier container farming solution on the

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market.

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So a fully turnkey system, and we've got

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500 plus systems worldwide operating today.

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Let's

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let's remind everybody what a shipping container is,

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because if

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if people are out driving on the highway

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now. They see shipping container put on the

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back of semi trucks because they picked them

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up with ports and they are delivering them

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somewhere else or if you see trains go

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through cargo trains. I'll have shipping containers sitting

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on those cars.

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And so for anybody that might be listening

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to the podcast and saying, we... I'm having

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a hard time picturing this. Shipping they're they're

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what? Like, are they 40 feet or so

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longer little longer than that? The... So it

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does depend there's a variety of shipping containers,

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but the most common 1.

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Which is the 1 that we use is

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a 40 foot shipping container. It's called.

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And it's 40 feet by 8 feet,

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essentially in in area.

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And then it's very standardized, so it has

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sort of these steel blocks at the corners

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that they used tie it down to the

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boat or the truck or the train or

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whatever it might go on. But the real

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power of shipping containers and why they took

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go over the world is is what's called

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inter transport. Right? So

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meaning that you can use the exact same

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container and you can put it on a

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train or vote or whatever, and it just

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gets moved between them, but it's the same

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exact container.

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Now, I suppose there are refrigerated cars and

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you know, livestock cars and some of that

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don't work. So it's some sort of just

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a standard solid walled

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container, nothing special, like, you know,

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refrigeration or so forth in it So our

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containers are actually a bit special, but they

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still conform to this the 40 foot standard,

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which means

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that they're certified for sea worthiness and can

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be stacked on vessels and things like that.

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We actually build our containers

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to a specific design that we've developed in

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China.

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We then ship them to the Us, and

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that design has

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all of the insulation that you would need

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for the farm, it has airflow channels, it

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has electrical,

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pass throughs, and all the things in the

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right place, so that we can build the

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farm really efficiently when it gets to the

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states for our final assembly facility.

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And it is not refrigerated in the same

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sense that a normal refer refrigerated to refers

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what they call. It's the industry sign for

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a refrigerated container. Yeah. But we do add

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air conditioning and will environmental control is a

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huge part of making a Ce farm work

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well.

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So.

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Isn't this isn't a retired.

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Shipping container that had spent, you know, hundred

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years on the ocean or something like this.

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This is this is a shipping container that...

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That's coming straight into becoming a farm, and

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it didn't have a life on the rails

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or something first.

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Correct. Our...

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So in freight farms history, we used to

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build farms out of reclaimed containers.

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But the issue with that is that they're

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inconsistent, and you don't quite know what you're

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getting. It's very hard to tell if there's

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a little bit of water damage in the

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container or... The insulation is degraded or any

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number of things. And so,

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in order to get a better product for

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our customers a few years ago,

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have you 3, 4 years ago, Moved to

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a standardized container?

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So you have them...

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And did you say that... Are they made

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in China and then imported and

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So the the container itself is made in

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China.

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We have a a very global supply chain.

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So some components are are made in China,

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others in the Us.

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We do all our final integration and testing

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in New England. Pretty close to our headquarters.

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And the the farm itself is is considered

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made in America well more than 50 percent

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of the content is Us. Josh Give you

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Pause every once a while. You think you've

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got an empty container coming over from somewhere

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that to put something in it for the

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ride, I think.

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We do. Yeah. You absolutely what we do.

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We, you know, obviously, in an emergency, we

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will ship a container empty, but it's pretty

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rare.

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We will sometimes ship our own cargo because

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we have things that come over, but, we

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will often ship other people's cargo.

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And,

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you know, 1 of the interesting things that

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come we're able to do is is

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actually leverage

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the high freight rates that are happening right

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now to use our container space,

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to offset the cost of shipping the containers.

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So you might read that because of the

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pandemic, freight rates are at an all time

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high.

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But we... For the most part, don't feel

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that impacts too much because we

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ship other people's goods.

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So you would... It's... It comes in, so

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you... It's put on the back foot truck.

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You need to have, like, a crane, take

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them off then or,

274
00:10:17,866 --> 00:10:20,016
I'm I'm I'm just thinking of, you know,

275
00:10:20,334 --> 00:10:22,086
big everything And and, how you sit get

276
00:10:22,086 --> 00:10:24,722
it foot get it port to sip. Yeah.

277
00:10:24,881 --> 00:10:26,867
So there's basically 3 methods that people use.

278
00:10:28,852 --> 00:10:30,441
You can use what's called the container handler,

279
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:31,632
which is what they would use in the

280
00:10:31,632 --> 00:10:34,459
port. A special machine that basically it meant

281
00:10:34,597 --> 00:10:37,069
for iso container handling only.

282
00:10:38,106 --> 00:10:39,701
Most people would not have that in their

283
00:10:39,701 --> 00:10:40,977
neighborhood, but when it comes off the boat,

284
00:10:41,137 --> 00:10:41,855
they might use that.

285
00:10:42,508 --> 00:10:44,342
Mh. Often the farm deliveries,

286
00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:45,697
we use a crane,

287
00:10:46,415 --> 00:10:48,089
to just lift it up and put farm

288
00:10:48,089 --> 00:10:49,843
down. And then the third way is what's

289
00:10:49,843 --> 00:10:50,561
called the land doll.

290
00:10:51,534 --> 00:10:53,612
Which is LAND0LL,

291
00:10:54,571 --> 00:10:55,870
but it's a type of,

292
00:10:56,329 --> 00:10:56,829
basically

293
00:10:57,528 --> 00:11:00,185
trailer for... It's a type of flatbed trailer

294
00:11:00,245 --> 00:11:02,171
that that tilt up and allows you to

295
00:11:02,171 --> 00:11:04,819
set a container down without any other

296
00:11:05,195 --> 00:11:08,139
handling essentially. Mh. So depending on the context

297
00:11:08,139 --> 00:11:09,572
of where the farmer is going, we will

298
00:11:09,572 --> 00:11:10,778
use 1 those methods,

299
00:11:11,967 --> 00:11:13,157
but it's really situational.

300
00:11:14,029 --> 00:11:14,529
Where

301
00:11:14,902 --> 00:11:16,884
well, let's talk out word where you do

302
00:11:16,884 --> 00:11:17,677
put these? I mean,

303
00:11:18,407 --> 00:11:20,795
described to me the places that that they

304
00:11:20,795 --> 00:11:22,865
we said Is it it typically in a

305
00:11:22,865 --> 00:11:25,093
city or is it typically in, like, a

306
00:11:25,093 --> 00:11:28,926
a abandoned factories or or we're typically do

307
00:11:28,926 --> 00:11:30,617
the... Do you have these farms

308
00:11:31,070 --> 00:11:31,467
situated?

309
00:11:32,658 --> 00:11:35,120
Yeah. It's a great question. And I think

310
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,708
to understand this question.

311
00:11:38,309 --> 00:11:40,077
You really need to look at Ce

312
00:11:41,004 --> 00:11:43,700
broadly and and our product specifically and follow

313
00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:44,651
the economics of it.

314
00:11:45,463 --> 00:11:47,058
Because at the end of the day, our

315
00:11:47,058 --> 00:11:49,153
customers are running businesses, and

316
00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:50,110
they,

317
00:11:50,886 --> 00:11:52,482
you know, they are more successful and they

318
00:11:52,482 --> 00:11:54,316
buy more farms when those businesses are are

319
00:11:54,316 --> 00:11:54,715
profitable.

320
00:11:55,367 --> 00:11:57,516
And so what you see is that our

321
00:11:57,516 --> 00:12:00,540
farms tend to follow the economics, and the

322
00:12:00,540 --> 00:12:02,132
economics of Ce are such that.

323
00:12:03,341 --> 00:12:05,808
You'll be more profitable in places where some

324
00:12:05,808 --> 00:12:06,604
resource is limited.

325
00:12:07,241 --> 00:12:09,708
The farm is extremely water efficient. It's about

326
00:12:09,708 --> 00:12:12,389
99 percent more water efficient than traditional ag

327
00:12:12,668 --> 00:12:15,532
extremely land efficient, and it can operate in

328
00:12:15,532 --> 00:12:16,646
any outside conditions.

329
00:12:17,362 --> 00:12:19,644
So our farms tend to live it's

330
00:12:20,557 --> 00:12:22,778
yes in cities because cities are limited in

331
00:12:22,778 --> 00:12:23,016
land,

332
00:12:23,889 --> 00:12:25,397
and sometimes the high produce prices.

333
00:12:25,952 --> 00:12:28,689
But more often they live in places, where

334
00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:31,382
resources are more explicitly constrained, so places like

335
00:12:31,382 --> 00:12:31,861
islands,

336
00:12:33,058 --> 00:12:36,091
where Caribbean islands are actually very,

337
00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:39,519
low and water as well. Right? They're surrounded

338
00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:40,787
by water, but it's saltwater water. So you

339
00:12:40,787 --> 00:12:42,530
can't use to irr gate, and they're low

340
00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:42,926
and land,

341
00:12:44,449 --> 00:12:46,527
they're also in the far north. So Alaska,

342
00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:47,645
Canada, Sweden,

343
00:12:48,284 --> 00:12:49,903
anywhere with a short growing season

344
00:12:50,282 --> 00:12:51,720
or a lot of cold.

345
00:12:53,014 --> 00:12:54,772
And you will also find them, you know,

346
00:12:54,931 --> 00:12:57,089
in the Middle East, any place that's particularly

347
00:12:57,089 --> 00:12:59,566
hot, also has water shortages, but you can't

348
00:12:59,566 --> 00:13:00,525
grow for a lot of the year.

349
00:13:01,178 --> 00:13:03,246
So those are the places where you're gonna

350
00:13:03,246 --> 00:13:05,394
see a lot of farms, and then we

351
00:13:05,394 --> 00:13:07,701
really have firms scattered throughout as well.

352
00:13:08,995 --> 00:13:11,554
Essentially, any place where there's demand for local

353
00:13:11,554 --> 00:13:13,554
produce, you'll see them. I'm wondering if you

354
00:13:13,554 --> 00:13:15,315
could ever find people that are kind of

355
00:13:15,315 --> 00:13:15,475
at,

356
00:13:16,449 --> 00:13:17,963
a spot where there's a fork in the

357
00:13:17,963 --> 00:13:19,557
road and they say, well, I might be

358
00:13:19,557 --> 00:13:21,709
able to get 20 acres here out on

359
00:13:21,709 --> 00:13:23,860
the the edge of Boston someplace place,

360
00:13:24,595 --> 00:13:27,235
and and produce some foods or I might

361
00:13:27,235 --> 00:13:28,674
be able to get a container.

362
00:13:29,554 --> 00:13:31,475
It's probably not that simple, But is there

363
00:13:31,475 --> 00:13:34,280
some... Some trade offs that people are saying

364
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,431
I'm going to try to to see how

365
00:13:36,431 --> 00:13:38,024
far I have to move away from the

366
00:13:38,024 --> 00:13:40,272
city and get space to be

367
00:13:40,911 --> 00:13:43,885
conventional providing with Csa or farmers markets

368
00:13:44,263 --> 00:13:44,763
versus

369
00:13:45,381 --> 00:13:47,137
this is an option that I might be

370
00:13:47,137 --> 00:13:49,386
able to have a a farm in a

371
00:13:49,386 --> 00:13:49,705
container.

372
00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:53,316
Yeah. I think you find

373
00:13:53,852 --> 00:13:54,990
a lot of our customers,

374
00:13:55,926 --> 00:13:57,463
you know, as they start their businesses

375
00:13:58,732 --> 00:14:00,165
You come from all walks of life, which

376
00:14:00,245 --> 00:14:01,678
I think is an amazing thing about our

377
00:14:01,678 --> 00:14:03,589
tech and that it's successful enough that you

378
00:14:03,589 --> 00:14:05,738
really don't have to have farming experience to

379
00:14:05,738 --> 00:14:06,296
to do it.

380
00:14:07,346 --> 00:14:08,938
And if you don't farming experience,

381
00:14:09,654 --> 00:14:10,154
you

382
00:14:10,609 --> 00:14:12,281
you don't necessarily wanna move out.

383
00:14:13,475 --> 00:14:15,324
I can tell you having how shocked around

384
00:14:15,484 --> 00:14:17,721
Boston that finding 20 acres on the outskirts

385
00:14:17,721 --> 00:14:19,559
of Boston means you have to move really

386
00:14:19,559 --> 00:14:19,879
far.

387
00:14:21,158 --> 00:14:21,317
Right.

388
00:14:22,037 --> 00:14:23,875
That is a that is a punishing commute.

389
00:14:25,242 --> 00:14:27,549
And so I don't think that people are

390
00:14:27,549 --> 00:14:30,015
mostly evaluating us that trade off. I think

391
00:14:30,015 --> 00:14:31,844
they're looking at it more in terms of...

392
00:14:33,292 --> 00:14:34,805
Not how far do I have to change

393
00:14:34,805 --> 00:14:38,310
my community to provide, but what could I

394
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:39,823
do in the context that I have to

395
00:14:39,823 --> 00:14:41,757
provide for my community? And then

396
00:14:42,068 --> 00:14:43,261
you think out of that way, the scope

397
00:14:43,261 --> 00:14:45,012
tends to be more limited. Mh.

398
00:14:46,364 --> 00:14:47,819
I I think it's more

399
00:14:49,228 --> 00:14:50,501
it's more... How can I?

400
00:14:51,152 --> 00:14:53,319
Help where I am, then

401
00:14:53,850 --> 00:14:55,516
how do I become a farmer or no

402
00:14:55,516 --> 00:14:57,659
holds barred, I think. Sure. Sure.

403
00:14:59,029 --> 00:14:59,769
How many

404
00:15:00,309 --> 00:15:01,110
are restaurants?

405
00:15:02,309 --> 00:15:04,870
The do restaurants set up their own farm?

406
00:15:05,844 --> 00:15:06,164
Yes.

407
00:15:06,963 --> 00:15:07,703
It's often

408
00:15:08,321 --> 00:15:10,479
a, like, operation that's sort of adjacent to

409
00:15:10,479 --> 00:15:13,436
the restaurant. In many cases, what we actually

410
00:15:13,436 --> 00:15:16,641
see is that our our customers, customers are

411
00:15:16,641 --> 00:15:16,880
restaurants.

412
00:15:17,995 --> 00:15:19,827
So, you know, if you're operating... Let's say

413
00:15:19,827 --> 00:15:21,022
you're operating 2 farms,

414
00:15:21,913 --> 00:15:23,502
you might have a handful of different crops

415
00:15:23,502 --> 00:15:25,036
that you're growing, and

416
00:15:25,648 --> 00:15:27,976
you're growing a substantial amount of them. So

417
00:15:28,033 --> 00:15:30,338
2 farms are growing, somewhere in the equivalent

418
00:15:30,338 --> 00:15:33,383
of you know, 300 to 400 pounds of

419
00:15:33,383 --> 00:15:35,138
produce per week if you're going lettuce.

420
00:15:36,095 --> 00:15:37,851
So restaurants are

421
00:15:38,503 --> 00:15:41,203
prime candidate for selling that produce. They care

422
00:15:41,203 --> 00:15:43,982
a lot about quality. They often have specific

423
00:15:43,982 --> 00:15:46,126
requirements that are easier to achieve in a

424
00:15:46,206 --> 00:15:47,079
Ce context.

425
00:15:47,889 --> 00:15:48,129
Like,

426
00:15:49,169 --> 00:15:52,529
coloring of plants, for instance, or particular flavor

427
00:15:52,529 --> 00:15:54,049
profiles or things that you can achieve when

428
00:15:54,049 --> 00:15:54,850
it's more repeatable.

429
00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:57,110
And then

430
00:15:57,503 --> 00:15:58,957
we often see is that people

431
00:15:59,571 --> 00:16:01,162
prefer to sell most of their produce, like,

432
00:16:01,241 --> 00:16:03,628
maybe 50 to 80 percent to restaurants.

433
00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:05,558
Because they're predictable,

434
00:16:06,197 --> 00:16:08,515
but then sell the rest via Csa or

435
00:16:08,515 --> 00:16:09,415
farmers markets

436
00:16:09,953 --> 00:16:11,951
or the other channels that are sort of

437
00:16:11,951 --> 00:16:14,202
higher margin, but less predictable. If you will.

438
00:16:14,441 --> 00:16:14,600
Right?

439
00:16:15,317 --> 00:16:17,250
These don't know how many people are gonna

440
00:16:17,386 --> 00:16:18,660
show up with the farmer's market on a

441
00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:20,730
given weekend. So if I could drive far

442
00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:22,977
enough that I was act they're gonna get

443
00:16:22,977 --> 00:16:25,691
land and try to do some farming for,

444
00:16:25,771 --> 00:16:27,846
you know, specialty crops of of some sort.

445
00:16:28,485 --> 00:16:29,842
What I... The first thing I think I

446
00:16:29,842 --> 00:16:31,772
would do would drive out there stand around

447
00:16:31,772 --> 00:16:33,288
and looked and Cg. What am I gonna

448
00:16:33,288 --> 00:16:34,884
do with this? And so now I'm trying

449
00:16:34,884 --> 00:16:36,639
to picture what that's like? You walk into

450
00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:38,806
a shipping container and you've got you've got

451
00:16:38,806 --> 00:16:42,067
this great empty shipping container, and and you...

452
00:16:42,783 --> 00:16:44,454
You kinda size it up and say,

453
00:16:45,424 --> 00:16:47,184
how are we gonna set this up. You

454
00:16:47,184 --> 00:16:48,865
guys get involved with that? You come in

455
00:16:48,865 --> 00:16:50,784
and say, okay. Here's what here's what you

456
00:16:50,784 --> 00:16:51,264
need to do.

457
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:53,919
Yeah. So we've got a lot of best

458
00:16:53,919 --> 00:16:56,639
practices and education that we give our farmers.

459
00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:00,652
We operate what's called Farm camp. For instance,

460
00:17:00,811 --> 00:17:02,321
which is sort of a... It's a farmer

461
00:17:02,321 --> 00:17:03,196
boot camp, if you will.

462
00:17:04,945 --> 00:17:07,647
Then helps teach. We also through the software.

463
00:17:07,886 --> 00:17:09,690
We have crop planning tool that helps for

464
00:17:10,049 --> 00:17:11,727
understand how I'm actually gonna lay out my

465
00:17:11,727 --> 00:17:12,047
farm?

466
00:17:12,686 --> 00:17:14,684
How what is my demand? Like,

467
00:17:15,404 --> 00:17:17,082
how should I be planting? What is the

468
00:17:17,082 --> 00:17:19,000
spacing of these plants in the farm?

469
00:17:20,211 --> 00:17:22,280
When do I need to harvest? So we

470
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:23,871
provide a lot of queues for the users.

471
00:17:24,348 --> 00:17:24,826
But we...

472
00:17:25,621 --> 00:17:26,678
You know, overriding,

473
00:17:27,133 --> 00:17:29,378
what this does come down to, when you're

474
00:17:29,378 --> 00:17:31,054
operating in farmer or any business, you've got

475
00:17:31,054 --> 00:17:33,528
them you've gotta produce what your customers want.

476
00:17:34,326 --> 00:17:34,826
So

477
00:17:35,284 --> 00:17:37,095
I in most cases, when someone gets there

478
00:17:37,214 --> 00:17:39,541
farm what we encourage them to do is

479
00:17:39,835 --> 00:17:41,583
essentially a few harvest of sampling.

480
00:17:42,377 --> 00:17:44,699
So you get your customers lined up, whoever

481
00:17:44,699 --> 00:17:46,457
that might be, whether it's your neighbors or

482
00:17:46,457 --> 00:17:48,774
some restaurants downtown or a grocery store,

483
00:17:49,573 --> 00:17:50,931
and you ask them what they want, and

484
00:17:50,931 --> 00:17:52,541
then you try to grow it. And you

485
00:17:52,541 --> 00:17:53,892
get it so you're happy with it, and

486
00:17:53,892 --> 00:17:55,163
then you show it to them, and they

487
00:17:55,163 --> 00:17:56,991
say, yeah. I would order this much of

488
00:17:56,991 --> 00:17:57,229
this.

489
00:17:58,262 --> 00:18:00,343
And then you build your your farm plan

490
00:18:00,343 --> 00:18:02,907
around what your customers want. Because if you're

491
00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:05,425
if you're making some awesome produce, but no

492
00:18:05,425 --> 00:18:07,569
one's gonna buy it, then it doesn't work.

493
00:18:08,934 --> 00:18:11,082
So all, the next place is somewhere along

494
00:18:11,082 --> 00:18:13,470
the lines it has to stop start next

495
00:18:13,470 --> 00:18:15,459
is going to be seeds. As those seeds,

496
00:18:15,618 --> 00:18:17,471
are they gonna go into

497
00:18:18,339 --> 00:18:20,900
soil, or will it be go into a

498
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:21,400
substrate

499
00:18:22,019 --> 00:18:22,420
when you're...

500
00:18:23,299 --> 00:18:24,579
Yeah. So in our farms,

501
00:18:25,539 --> 00:18:27,220
the seats go into substrate?

502
00:18:27,633 --> 00:18:28,531
We primarily

503
00:18:28,985 --> 00:18:29,485
recommend

504
00:18:29,939 --> 00:18:31,711
the Coco core substrates,

505
00:18:33,357 --> 00:18:35,742
although we have farmers who operate successfully with

506
00:18:35,742 --> 00:18:36,537
many different types.

507
00:18:38,541 --> 00:18:39,041
And

508
00:18:40,689 --> 00:18:43,156
yeah. I mean, the soy nature of it

509
00:18:43,156 --> 00:18:45,225
can be controversial in some cases, but then

510
00:18:45,304 --> 00:18:46,123
I think people

511
00:18:46,592 --> 00:18:48,045
try the produce and

512
00:18:48,577 --> 00:18:49,847
are tend to be convinced.

513
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:54,691
But now, does anyone put soil in them

514
00:18:54,691 --> 00:18:56,637
or are they pretty much all substrates.

515
00:18:57,332 --> 00:18:58,209
They're all substrates.

516
00:18:58,925 --> 00:19:01,475
So you starting with a substrate then that

517
00:19:01,475 --> 00:19:02,453
you're going to be

518
00:19:03,003 --> 00:19:05,231
do you have several levels or is it

519
00:19:05,231 --> 00:19:07,641
floor level and then a a medium or

520
00:19:09,608 --> 00:19:09,846
what's...

521
00:19:10,499 --> 00:19:12,494
Yeah, How many... Are there layers of substrates,

522
00:19:12,734 --> 00:19:14,889
I guess, or levels of substrates within the

523
00:19:14,889 --> 00:19:15,128
farm?

524
00:19:17,044 --> 00:19:18,960
Sort. So I'll explain how it works. So...

525
00:19:19,294 --> 00:19:21,212
Basically, there's a Germ determination area in the

526
00:19:21,212 --> 00:19:21,452
farm,

527
00:19:22,251 --> 00:19:22,751
and

528
00:19:24,169 --> 00:19:25,607
you know, you start, like, in a 10

529
00:19:25,607 --> 00:19:27,605
by 20 tray with a standard tray.

530
00:19:28,258 --> 00:19:30,747
And the substrates we use, whether it's

531
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,576
you know, pete or

532
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:35,813
rockwell or whatever, those fit into the the

533
00:19:35,813 --> 00:19:36,052
tray,

534
00:19:37,103 --> 00:19:38,778
and you seed into the tray with the

535
00:19:38,778 --> 00:19:39,278
substrate

536
00:19:39,896 --> 00:19:41,173
into the hole in the center and the

537
00:19:41,173 --> 00:19:41,571
substrate.

538
00:19:42,130 --> 00:19:44,938
That goes into the nursery station, And that's

539
00:19:44,938 --> 00:19:47,253
where Germ nation happens in the first few

540
00:19:47,253 --> 00:19:49,248
weeks, usually 2 to 3 weeks and plant

541
00:19:49,248 --> 00:19:49,967
life happened there.

542
00:19:51,483 --> 00:19:53,101
The the farm can hold about

543
00:19:53,810 --> 00:19:54,945
2500

544
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,111
seed at the time.

545
00:19:56,826 --> 00:19:59,207
And then when the ceilings get too big,

546
00:19:59,524 --> 00:20:00,969
and there... It should have been art to

547
00:20:00,969 --> 00:20:02,882
knowing when the right time, the transplant is.

548
00:20:03,041 --> 00:20:05,294
We we help farmers understand this and

549
00:20:05,671 --> 00:20:06,729
and time it properly.

550
00:20:07,265 --> 00:20:09,991
The plants get moved to to the the

551
00:20:09,991 --> 00:20:12,705
main cultivation area we call it. And that's

552
00:20:12,705 --> 00:20:15,578
a vertical panel that uses a different water

553
00:20:15,578 --> 00:20:16,397
delivery mechanism

554
00:20:17,584 --> 00:20:18,718
that's more

555
00:20:19,248 --> 00:20:20,198
akin to a...

556
00:20:22,021 --> 00:20:24,574
It's not exactly an N system, but basically,

557
00:20:24,813 --> 00:20:26,729
there's a wick strip that helps deliver water

558
00:20:26,729 --> 00:20:28,245
to each individual plant evenly.

559
00:20:28,724 --> 00:20:29,043
Mh.

560
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,475
Now, the next couple things that are necessary.

561
00:20:32,649 --> 00:20:34,642
Then, I guess is, we need to talk

562
00:20:34,642 --> 00:20:36,873
about light and water. So if you've got

563
00:20:36,873 --> 00:20:39,024
the spend nutrients. So I don't know what

564
00:20:39,104 --> 00:20:40,633
I'm missing out, but the other thing big

565
00:20:40,633 --> 00:20:42,546
categories once you got the space. And once

566
00:20:42,546 --> 00:20:44,380
you've got the substrate, and once you've got

567
00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:45,097
the genetics,

568
00:20:45,815 --> 00:20:46,134
then,

569
00:20:47,489 --> 00:20:48,286
what are you adding?

570
00:20:48,940 --> 00:20:51,339
What are the what are the nutrients? How

571
00:20:51,339 --> 00:20:53,519
how much water which I'm I'm sure there's

572
00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:57,099
easy explanations on getting water depending on where

573
00:20:57,099 --> 00:20:59,031
you're located and And then,

574
00:20:59,667 --> 00:21:00,862
how do you make up for the lack

575
00:21:00,862 --> 00:21:03,250
of sunlight? So how do you wanna tackle

576
00:21:03,250 --> 00:21:05,160
those? Yeah. And the 1 I would add

577
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:05,956
also is air.

578
00:21:06,528 --> 00:21:07,664
Air air.

579
00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:10,346
I forget about error, and that actually ears

580
00:21:10,346 --> 00:21:12,175
done an awful lot of things plants need.

581
00:21:12,732 --> 00:21:14,243
It does. Yeah. So

582
00:21:15,053 --> 00:21:16,481
we can start on the water and nutrient

583
00:21:16,481 --> 00:21:17,298
side. So,

584
00:21:17,670 --> 00:21:19,019
you know, 1 of the coolest things about

585
00:21:19,019 --> 00:21:21,795
hydro hypersonic is the water efficiency. So our

586
00:21:21,795 --> 00:21:22,588
farm uses,

587
00:21:22,985 --> 00:21:25,473
but about 5 gallons of water a day,

588
00:21:25,872 --> 00:21:27,787
it depends on your performance. So that I

589
00:21:27,787 --> 00:21:29,622
would say that is sort of an average.

590
00:21:29,861 --> 00:21:31,550
If you're in a humid climate, it can

591
00:21:31,550 --> 00:21:33,803
easily be 0 or even water positive

592
00:21:34,179 --> 00:21:36,092
because it captures some water from the environment.

593
00:21:38,019 --> 00:21:39,859
We use a rec circulating system, which is

594
00:21:39,859 --> 00:21:41,539
why the water usage can be so low.

595
00:21:42,339 --> 00:21:46,179
And into that, we essentially manage nutrients, and

596
00:21:46,179 --> 00:21:46,919
we use a

597
00:21:47,872 --> 00:21:49,706
really any new train that our customers want.

598
00:21:49,945 --> 00:21:51,380
We have our own line update trainings that

599
00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:53,852
we understand really well that's for people use

600
00:21:53,852 --> 00:21:55,128
because it's a lot easier to help them

601
00:21:55,128 --> 00:21:55,447
with it.

602
00:21:56,896 --> 00:21:58,034
And those nutrients

603
00:21:58,729 --> 00:22:01,359
are both your your macron nutrients, your K

604
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,642
as well as micron nutrients. And their balance

605
00:22:04,642 --> 00:22:07,274
such that you control both the nutrient content

606
00:22:07,274 --> 00:22:08,173
of the water

607
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:10,464
as well as the ph of the water,

608
00:22:10,783 --> 00:22:12,937
can you you leverage the ph to help

609
00:22:12,937 --> 00:22:13,437
with

610
00:22:14,309 --> 00:22:17,025
the uptake of the nutrients and manage that

611
00:22:17,025 --> 00:22:17,424
properly.

612
00:22:18,703 --> 00:22:20,960
We have a a dosing system that

613
00:22:21,512 --> 00:22:22,012
essentially

614
00:22:23,026 --> 00:22:25,575
monitors all of those and doses pieces of

615
00:22:25,575 --> 00:22:28,124
nutrient as needed into the water, and it's

616
00:22:28,124 --> 00:22:28,943
always monitoring

617
00:22:29,399 --> 00:22:30,116
24 7.

618
00:22:31,085 --> 00:22:32,596
So I think did that answer that the

619
00:22:32,596 --> 00:22:33,391
water component.

620
00:22:35,219 --> 00:22:36,491
Well, you mentioned p and k,

621
00:22:37,206 --> 00:22:39,535
so the... So the the nutrients

622
00:22:40,322 --> 00:22:43,584
But beyond those those kind of nutrients like

623
00:22:43,664 --> 00:22:46,073
P, p and k. What about is there

624
00:22:46,687 --> 00:22:49,243
our, are microbes zipper offered? Do you have

625
00:22:49,243 --> 00:22:52,736
biological that that get get into the system

626
00:22:52,736 --> 00:22:52,894
too?

627
00:22:53,847 --> 00:22:55,752
We do. And that is something that...

628
00:22:56,724 --> 00:22:58,741
We work with farmers on. We

629
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,836
we generally prefer to help people towards a

630
00:23:01,836 --> 00:23:02,336
biological,

631
00:23:03,849 --> 00:23:04,909
solution when possible.

632
00:23:05,609 --> 00:23:07,690
So some farmers are more down that road

633
00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:08,169
than others.

634
00:23:09,289 --> 00:23:11,450
But it's something we really like to see,

635
00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:12,190
and

636
00:23:13,221 --> 00:23:13,721
we

637
00:23:14,177 --> 00:23:16,567
we don't have biologic in our nutrient line,

638
00:23:16,727 --> 00:23:17,864
but we definitely,

639
00:23:18,798 --> 00:23:20,710
have many that we recommend when we use

640
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:23,593
farmers on a regular basis either for different

641
00:23:23,593 --> 00:23:25,448
kinds of pest control or additives

642
00:23:26,302 --> 00:23:27,497
for growth or different things.

643
00:23:28,134 --> 00:23:28,533
Mh.

644
00:23:29,170 --> 00:23:29,670
So

645
00:23:30,763 --> 00:23:31,241
microbes,

646
00:23:31,893 --> 00:23:33,958
So you can you can you can be

647
00:23:33,958 --> 00:23:36,601
able to do something that's basically, like, giving

648
00:23:36,657 --> 00:23:37,157
probiotics

649
00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:41,042
to humans, but probiotics. To the plants that

650
00:23:41,042 --> 00:23:43,508
are grown in the in these container farms

651
00:23:43,508 --> 00:23:43,747
then.

652
00:23:45,178 --> 00:23:46,292
Yeah. And I think you're...

653
00:23:47,420 --> 00:23:49,430
It's partially for the clearance, but it's also

654
00:23:49,565 --> 00:23:51,869
partially to prevent the growth of bad microbes.

655
00:23:52,823 --> 00:23:54,968
Mh. As what can happen in a rec

656
00:23:54,968 --> 00:23:57,841
circulating systems especially is that if you get

657
00:23:58,396 --> 00:24:00,459
a bad microbe that starts multiplying,

658
00:24:02,364 --> 00:24:03,872
essentially the absence of good microbes,

659
00:24:04,364 --> 00:24:06,522
just like, you know, in your stomach, that

660
00:24:06,522 --> 00:24:08,280
can be very problematic for the farming for

661
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:08,599
the growth.

662
00:24:09,319 --> 00:24:11,876
So that's something we really try to help

663
00:24:11,876 --> 00:24:12,515
people avoid.

664
00:24:13,089 --> 00:24:15,240
And you'll sometimes see the growth of bad

665
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:15,639
microbes,

666
00:24:16,117 --> 00:24:17,015
actually, when

667
00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:20,021
when the farm is almost too clean.

668
00:24:20,674 --> 00:24:22,211
You know, someone has really

669
00:24:23,228 --> 00:24:25,702
aggressively cleaned the farm. It's much easier for

670
00:24:25,702 --> 00:24:27,856
bad microbes to take hold. And in that

671
00:24:27,856 --> 00:24:28,415
case, we would...

672
00:24:29,146 --> 00:24:31,369
Recommend that you do in ina with a

673
00:24:31,369 --> 00:24:32,242
with a good microbe.

674
00:24:33,037 --> 00:24:33,672
What about,

675
00:24:34,863 --> 00:24:36,475
how you accomplish photosynthesis

676
00:24:37,404 --> 00:24:37,904
with

677
00:24:38,535 --> 00:24:41,095
artificial light rather than sun. How do you

678
00:24:41,095 --> 00:24:42,934
how do you balance... How do you match

679
00:24:42,934 --> 00:24:45,015
up with what what the sun's is able

680
00:24:45,015 --> 00:24:45,894
to do outside,

681
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:47,908
Yeah. So,

682
00:24:48,787 --> 00:24:50,225
what, 1 of the ways we out match

683
00:24:50,225 --> 00:24:51,903
the sun is in inconsistency. So it is

684
00:24:51,903 --> 00:24:52,643
the same

685
00:24:53,820 --> 00:24:54,220
everyday...

686
00:24:54,874 --> 00:24:57,346
3 65 days a year. Right? Exactly the

687
00:24:57,346 --> 00:24:58,223
same. Mh.

688
00:24:59,259 --> 00:25:01,572
What we do is we actually balance the

689
00:25:01,572 --> 00:25:03,587
light in our farm so that

690
00:25:06,679 --> 00:25:09,458
essentially, we only give the plant the wavelength

691
00:25:09,458 --> 00:25:10,093
that it needs.

692
00:25:10,887 --> 00:25:12,872
So that's a, a red wavelength.

693
00:25:13,524 --> 00:25:15,199
On the it's sort of long alongside of

694
00:25:15,199 --> 00:25:16,714
red and then a blue wavelength blank.

695
00:25:17,671 --> 00:25:18,150
And so,

696
00:25:19,266 --> 00:25:20,165
counter intuitively,

697
00:25:20,543 --> 00:25:22,776
the plants kind of look gray under that

698
00:25:22,776 --> 00:25:22,935
light.

699
00:25:23,587 --> 00:25:24,701
I don't know if you've ever seen it

700
00:25:24,701 --> 00:25:26,372
up close, but the plates can actually look

701
00:25:26,372 --> 00:25:27,326
kind of gross.

702
00:25:28,201 --> 00:25:30,602
But what you're actually seeing is that plants

703
00:25:30,602 --> 00:25:32,987
aren't reflecting any light back at you. They're

704
00:25:32,987 --> 00:25:35,395
using all of the red and blue together

705
00:25:35,690 --> 00:25:36,349
to photos,

706
00:25:36,803 --> 00:25:37,859
and there's no

707
00:25:38,329 --> 00:25:40,327
you know, when a leaf looks green what

708
00:25:40,327 --> 00:25:43,123
you're actually seeing is photons that aren't being

709
00:25:43,123 --> 00:25:45,280
used by the leaf bouncing back at you.

710
00:25:46,094 --> 00:25:46,913
And so,

711
00:25:47,290 --> 00:25:49,205
in in generating the spectrum, we do, the

712
00:25:49,205 --> 00:25:51,597
goal is to keep the plant happy, but

713
00:25:51,597 --> 00:25:53,831
not waste any photons that would otherwise get

714
00:25:53,831 --> 00:25:56,317
bounced around the farm and and cost energy?

715
00:25:56,954 --> 00:25:57,192
Yeah.

716
00:25:58,147 --> 00:25:58,647
So

717
00:25:59,102 --> 00:26:02,205
what about the nutrition of what's grown Any

718
00:26:02,205 --> 00:26:03,875
of the people that have started the farms

719
00:26:03,875 --> 00:26:06,525
have they tested? So that there's gonna be

720
00:26:06,525 --> 00:26:08,444
some skeptics that are saying, gee, I'm not

721
00:26:08,444 --> 00:26:11,164
sure whether you've got, you know, the nutrients

722
00:26:11,325 --> 00:26:13,499
I'm looking for as a consumer you know,

723
00:26:13,739 --> 00:26:14,938
and then what I might be able to

724
00:26:14,938 --> 00:26:18,294
get in soil outdoors. Does... Has any of

725
00:26:18,294 --> 00:26:20,052
them... Have any of them or your your

726
00:26:20,052 --> 00:26:21,890
own company done nutritional testing?

727
00:26:22,463 --> 00:26:25,003
Is. We do, and we do bricks testing

728
00:26:25,003 --> 00:26:27,701
on on our test crops often, and we

729
00:26:27,701 --> 00:26:29,233
find that it... We are consistently

730
00:26:30,019 --> 00:26:32,751
generating more proteins and more sugars

731
00:26:33,606 --> 00:26:35,121
in our crops than what we would get

732
00:26:35,121 --> 00:26:37,353
off the shelf. And I think, you know,

733
00:26:37,433 --> 00:26:38,092
it's a

734
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,394
perhaps a bit of a myth to attribute

735
00:26:42,394 --> 00:26:44,070
all of that to have the hydro nature

736
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:44,389
of it.

737
00:26:46,637 --> 00:26:48,310
You know, my take on it is that

738
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:51,438
you're actually seeing substantial improvement because

739
00:26:52,451 --> 00:26:54,682
of what's happening to the plant after car.

740
00:26:55,493 --> 00:26:57,322
And that's something that I think it's really

741
00:26:57,322 --> 00:26:59,152
worth talking about because it's a key difference

742
00:26:59,152 --> 00:27:01,618
from local food. If you go to the

743
00:27:01,618 --> 00:27:01,936
store,

744
00:27:02,508 --> 00:27:04,179
even if you go to Whole foods or

745
00:27:04,179 --> 00:27:07,065
whatever, and you buy lettuce that lettuce has

746
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:08,792
been on a journey to get to you.

747
00:27:09,031 --> 00:27:10,883
Know, that journey takes a while and

748
00:27:13,189 --> 00:27:15,104
while that journey is happening, it's degrading.

749
00:27:15,902 --> 00:27:17,897
Sure. So 1 of the big differences with

750
00:27:17,897 --> 00:27:20,059
our farms is, Yes. They're hydro panic, but

751
00:27:20,059 --> 00:27:22,280
also you're eating it right away, and it

752
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,947
doesn't have to go on that that long

753
00:27:23,947 --> 00:27:26,343
journey to get to you. Yeah. Yes You

754
00:27:26,343 --> 00:27:28,413
know? But, that... That's that's a really, really

755
00:27:28,413 --> 00:27:31,621
good point. And then there are some produce

756
00:27:31,678 --> 00:27:34,067
that actually has to be picked early too,

757
00:27:34,876 --> 00:27:36,857
because it's gotta take into account that it's

758
00:27:36,857 --> 00:27:39,180
gonna be 10 days or or or longer

759
00:27:39,235 --> 00:27:41,717
before it's on shelves on the East Coast

760
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:42,976
so there's...

761
00:27:43,770 --> 00:27:46,706
So the journey does have something that should

762
00:27:46,706 --> 00:27:49,897
be considered, which brings us up. The other

763
00:27:49,897 --> 00:27:50,375
point then.

764
00:27:51,172 --> 00:27:53,186
And and that is your

765
00:27:53,643 --> 00:27:54,143
carbon

766
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:54,759
footprint,

767
00:27:55,954 --> 00:27:56,671
greenhouse gases.

768
00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:00,203
This kind of system and somebody saying for,

769
00:28:00,734 --> 00:28:02,163
you know, we're for what they're gonna be

770
00:28:02,163 --> 00:28:04,329
able to produce. How how do you

771
00:28:04,701 --> 00:28:05,201
compare,

772
00:28:06,148 --> 00:28:08,461
when looking at your impact on the on

773
00:28:08,461 --> 00:28:08,939
the climate.

774
00:28:10,375 --> 00:28:12,369
For sure. This is an amazing question, and

775
00:28:12,449 --> 00:28:13,826
I think it's 1 where

776
00:28:16,055 --> 00:28:18,474
people do find it easy to

777
00:28:19,255 --> 00:28:19,755
either

778
00:28:20,134 --> 00:28:21,275
criticize or green

779
00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:23,894
the Ce space and neither is quite bright.

780
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:27,269
This was absolutely a topic at in Nora

781
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:27,769
icon

782
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:28,950
last week.

783
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:31,669
And I think is 1 that's really important

784
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:33,762
for the industry to face because it's... In

785
00:28:33,762 --> 00:28:35,190
some cases, the elephant in the room.

786
00:28:36,380 --> 00:28:36,880
And,

787
00:28:37,332 --> 00:28:38,467
you know, we've done

788
00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:41,299
a full cycle analysis of our produce.

789
00:28:42,744 --> 00:28:43,244
And

790
00:28:43,620 --> 00:28:46,007
the conclusions are probably what you would expect.

791
00:28:46,165 --> 00:28:47,677
But I think we're really good for us

792
00:28:47,677 --> 00:28:50,303
to formally put out on on paper, and

793
00:28:50,303 --> 00:28:50,621
you can...

794
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:52,625
Check out this,

795
00:28:53,818 --> 00:28:55,251
infographic that we put together if you want,

796
00:28:55,489 --> 00:28:56,285
I can send it along.

797
00:28:57,001 --> 00:28:57,637
It's public.

798
00:28:58,354 --> 00:28:59,808
But what we found was that

799
00:29:00,518 --> 00:29:01,417
all of the

800
00:29:01,794 --> 00:29:03,628
all of the technical components of our farm.

801
00:29:03,788 --> 00:29:06,101
So some people reacts because they say, okay,

802
00:29:06,181 --> 00:29:08,015
well, you've got a big metal container and

803
00:29:08,015 --> 00:29:10,842
you've got Leds and all that. Those must

804
00:29:11,137 --> 00:29:12,409
take a lot of carbon to make,

805
00:29:13,283 --> 00:29:14,555
and they do take carbon to make.

806
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:17,814
But the actual impact of that is sort

807
00:29:17,814 --> 00:29:21,166
of similar to those tractor and the barn

808
00:29:21,166 --> 00:29:23,391
and everything that traditional farm would have. And

809
00:29:23,391 --> 00:29:25,537
and actually, in both cases, it's a really

810
00:29:25,537 --> 00:29:26,355
small slice

811
00:29:28,662 --> 00:29:31,539
where both traditional farming and Indoor ag,

812
00:29:32,259 --> 00:29:34,416
where the impacts really come into play in

813
00:29:34,416 --> 00:29:36,069
the use side of the

814
00:29:36,427 --> 00:29:37,223
cycle analysis.

815
00:29:37,939 --> 00:29:40,246
And for traditional ag, what you see is

816
00:29:40,246 --> 00:29:42,336
big impacts on transport,

817
00:29:43,204 --> 00:29:45,272
So from farm to table and there's some

818
00:29:45,272 --> 00:29:47,102
studies that have just come out implying that

819
00:29:47,102 --> 00:29:49,408
this impact is actually worse than usually modeled.

820
00:29:50,777 --> 00:29:53,246
And then also on the water use on

821
00:29:53,246 --> 00:29:54,383
traditional ag. So

822
00:29:54,839 --> 00:29:57,883
water use is indirectly in electricity use, something

823
00:29:57,883 --> 00:30:00,835
like 20 to 30 percent of California's electricity

824
00:30:00,835 --> 00:30:02,431
is spent pumping water around,

825
00:30:03,788 --> 00:30:05,119
which I don't think that

826
00:30:05,636 --> 00:30:07,465
everyone is sort of aware of the impact

827
00:30:07,465 --> 00:30:08,021
of that.

828
00:30:08,737 --> 00:30:09,770
Mh. And

829
00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:13,680
for the Ce side, what see is you

830
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,270
see almost no water use,

831
00:30:15,827 --> 00:30:18,292
and you see much less land use. There's

832
00:30:18,292 --> 00:30:21,075
also this other piece of pesticides and and

833
00:30:21,075 --> 00:30:23,473
herbicides and chemicals, which is you really hard

834
00:30:23,473 --> 00:30:25,537
to quantify for traditional ag, and we didn't

835
00:30:25,537 --> 00:30:27,442
actually even go there in our Lc c,

836
00:30:27,601 --> 00:30:28,712
but other folks have.

837
00:30:29,744 --> 00:30:31,173
We don't use any of that in indoor

838
00:30:31,173 --> 00:30:33,365
ag. When in indirect, we use much more

839
00:30:33,424 --> 00:30:36,305
energy. And so what it comes down to

840
00:30:36,305 --> 00:30:37,984
is where you getting that energy from.

841
00:30:38,958 --> 00:30:41,023
And in the cycle analysis,

842
00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:42,691
the what you see is that if you

843
00:30:42,691 --> 00:30:45,788
get the energy from coal, for instance, it

844
00:30:45,788 --> 00:30:46,662
is much worse.

845
00:30:47,154 --> 00:30:49,568
For the environment from a pure carbon standpoint

846
00:30:50,265 --> 00:30:52,817
to grow your produce this way that in

847
00:30:52,817 --> 00:30:54,810
traditional egg, it's about 10 x worse from

848
00:30:54,810 --> 00:30:56,007
for on a carbon basis.

849
00:30:56,898 --> 00:30:58,882
But if you get your energy from wind,

850
00:30:59,278 --> 00:31:01,023
it's about 4 times better.

851
00:31:01,658 --> 00:31:03,245
And so the swing is massive.

852
00:31:04,054 --> 00:31:05,486
And 1 of the things we've put in

853
00:31:05,486 --> 00:31:08,033
place to really help our farmers is the

854
00:31:08,033 --> 00:31:09,943
ability for any Us farmer and to easily

855
00:31:09,943 --> 00:31:12,648
sign up for renewable energy source for their

856
00:31:12,648 --> 00:31:12,887
farm.

857
00:31:13,937 --> 00:31:16,164
We a partnership with a company called Arcadia

858
00:31:16,164 --> 00:31:16,664
that

859
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:20,164
provides electricity through community solar wind to,

860
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:22,386
residential and small businesses.

861
00:31:23,023 --> 00:31:24,537
We also put a lot of energy into

862
00:31:24,537 --> 00:31:27,268
making the farm efficient, both from climate management

863
00:31:27,325 --> 00:31:29,556
and and air handling those elements,

864
00:31:30,049 --> 00:31:31,970
as well as the actual Leds we use.

865
00:31:32,529 --> 00:31:34,769
And so, you know, as we're putting energy

866
00:31:34,769 --> 00:31:35,269
into

867
00:31:36,210 --> 00:31:38,697
being more energy efficient we're also trying to

868
00:31:38,697 --> 00:31:40,049
help And we're sign up for the right

869
00:31:40,049 --> 00:31:41,957
energy and trying to raise awareness that this

870
00:31:41,957 --> 00:31:42,831
is actually an issue.

871
00:31:43,547 --> 00:31:45,137
And 1 of the really interesting things for

872
00:31:45,137 --> 00:31:46,189
me it, at

873
00:31:46,748 --> 00:31:48,127
conference last week was

874
00:31:48,665 --> 00:31:50,843
everyone in the room was very aligned that

875
00:31:51,622 --> 00:31:53,355
controlled environment agriculture is

876
00:31:53,951 --> 00:31:56,176
unnecessary adaptation to climate change.

877
00:31:57,368 --> 00:31:59,037
It can be a mitigation, but it is

878
00:31:59,037 --> 00:32:00,547
more an adaptation in a lot of ways.

879
00:32:01,596 --> 00:32:04,456
But to be successful, the the industry needs

880
00:32:04,456 --> 00:32:06,523
to shift to running solely on renewables.

881
00:32:07,158 --> 00:32:08,589
And so I think that's something we will

882
00:32:08,589 --> 00:32:09,781
see as a focus.

883
00:32:10,669 --> 00:32:11,781
Over the next few years.

884
00:32:14,162 --> 00:32:16,385
Well, another focus we need to talk about

885
00:32:16,385 --> 00:32:18,787
is the economics of it? So if you

886
00:32:18,787 --> 00:32:21,581
are a farmer, you hope to produce food,

887
00:32:21,820 --> 00:32:23,975
and you... Maybe you are a restaurant yourself,

888
00:32:24,055 --> 00:32:25,332
and you're producing to be able to put

889
00:32:25,332 --> 00:32:27,896
through your restaurant. But if you're trying to

890
00:32:27,896 --> 00:32:29,647
produce food and sell it.

891
00:32:31,317 --> 00:32:33,647
How do the economic shake out? And and

892
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,279
it the, you know, what can you what

893
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:37,640
do can you can look at to be

894
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,279
able to produce? What's the production that can

895
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:42,528
come from how much lettuce us or how

896
00:32:42,528 --> 00:32:45,715
much whatever prominent of vegetables use it you're

897
00:32:45,715 --> 00:32:46,114
producing?

898
00:32:47,388 --> 00:32:50,177
Yeah. So we always target our farm to...

899
00:32:52,658 --> 00:32:55,045
If you're you're operating well, a 2 year

900
00:32:55,045 --> 00:32:56,397
payback is what you should expect.

901
00:32:57,923 --> 00:32:59,745
So that is sort of our benchmark. It's

902
00:32:59,745 --> 00:33:01,329
how we think about pricing and how we

903
00:33:01,329 --> 00:33:02,676
think about success for the model.

904
00:33:03,944 --> 00:33:04,444
And,

905
00:33:05,468 --> 00:33:07,063
you know, the yields we've been able to

906
00:33:07,063 --> 00:33:08,818
get have grown a lot over the years,

907
00:33:09,296 --> 00:33:11,769
just as the technology improves and as the

908
00:33:11,769 --> 00:33:14,082
knowledge of product grow improves in our spaces.

909
00:33:15,455 --> 00:33:15,955
But,

910
00:33:16,495 --> 00:33:18,414
you know, to put it concrete, like, in

911
00:33:18,414 --> 00:33:19,055
1 farm,

912
00:33:20,255 --> 00:33:21,615
you should be able to grow about a

913
00:33:21,615 --> 00:33:23,055
thousand heads of lettuce per week.

914
00:33:23,629 --> 00:33:24,985
Now you don't have to go lettuce, you

915
00:33:24,985 --> 00:33:26,979
can grow lots of other things. And the

916
00:33:26,979 --> 00:33:28,893
profitability of that is gonna depend on your

917
00:33:28,893 --> 00:33:31,387
customer base and what exactly they want because

918
00:33:31,685 --> 00:33:33,200
not all customers will want the same thing.

919
00:33:34,652 --> 00:33:36,967
But in sort of the average case, we're

920
00:33:36,967 --> 00:33:38,724
targeting a into year payback on investment.

921
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:41,997
What are the other things you can grow

922
00:33:41,997 --> 00:33:42,715
besides lettuce?

923
00:33:44,248 --> 00:33:45,468
So you can grow

924
00:33:45,847 --> 00:33:46,406
lots of things.

925
00:33:47,125 --> 00:33:49,304
And we have grown many, many. I think

926
00:33:49,603 --> 00:33:52,560
our total tally is somewhere north of 500.

927
00:33:54,808 --> 00:33:57,361
But I'll start with sort of what customers,

928
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,376
I would say normally grow and then

929
00:33:59,833 --> 00:34:01,349
into more in a wild than wacky things

930
00:34:01,349 --> 00:34:02,545
that we grow in our laps sometimes.

931
00:34:03,838 --> 00:34:05,996
So a lot of customers grow leafy greens.

932
00:34:06,156 --> 00:34:08,314
They're very easy to start with, and there's

933
00:34:08,314 --> 00:34:10,152
many more than just lettuce us. So, you

934
00:34:10,152 --> 00:34:12,070
know, Char, Bok choy,

935
00:34:12,802 --> 00:34:13,199
spinach,

936
00:34:14,151 --> 00:34:14,809
ar ar,

937
00:34:15,579 --> 00:34:16,769
Or ar,

938
00:34:18,039 --> 00:34:18,539
there's

939
00:34:19,071 --> 00:34:20,579
a hundred different kinds of lettuce,

940
00:34:21,468 --> 00:34:23,537
and various things there. There's also a lot

941
00:34:23,537 --> 00:34:25,448
of crops that grow well with lettuce.

942
00:34:26,164 --> 00:34:28,711
So often people will crop radish is with

943
00:34:28,711 --> 00:34:30,479
lettuce. Because they canopy be of the lettuce

944
00:34:30,479 --> 00:34:32,073
it doesn't block the out so much.

945
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:34,942
Those are also a faster harvest, so you

946
00:34:34,942 --> 00:34:36,557
can cultivate them quicker

947
00:34:37,509 --> 00:34:37,988
turnip,

948
00:34:38,467 --> 00:34:41,344
people grow there's a variety of root vegetables,

949
00:34:41,584 --> 00:34:42,383
and then herbs,

950
00:34:43,501 --> 00:34:44,880
are pretty common. So

951
00:34:45,512 --> 00:34:48,609
we're experimenting with some, you know, really cool

952
00:34:48,609 --> 00:34:50,435
pineapple sage and stuff in our farm right

953
00:34:50,435 --> 00:34:52,579
now, but people grow at Basal and all

954
00:34:52,579 --> 00:34:55,135
the varieties of that and cilantro, parsley,

955
00:34:55,691 --> 00:34:56,882
all the things you might expect.

956
00:34:58,788 --> 00:34:59,820
But not so much fruit?

957
00:35:00,773 --> 00:35:03,393
Not so much fruit. So you can grow

958
00:35:03,393 --> 00:35:03,925
fruit, parsley

959
00:35:04,998 --> 00:35:06,907
we're growing tomatoes in our test farm right

960
00:35:06,907 --> 00:35:08,896
now. It's a little bit less common in

961
00:35:08,896 --> 00:35:10,748
the field. We grow vertically,

962
00:35:11,059 --> 00:35:12,274
So heavy fruits

963
00:35:12,886 --> 00:35:14,555
need to be supported a little bit more.

964
00:35:14,952 --> 00:35:16,620
Otherwise, they'll pull the plants down a little

965
00:35:16,620 --> 00:35:19,083
bit, but we do grow pumpkins, for instance

966
00:35:19,083 --> 00:35:21,011
in our test. Farm, and it works just

967
00:35:21,011 --> 00:35:22,687
fine. You just kinda gotta watch the pumpkin

968
00:35:22,687 --> 00:35:24,783
and make sure you hold it up

969
00:35:26,437 --> 00:35:26,937
and

970
00:35:27,489 --> 00:35:29,713
Yeah. Yeah. We also go flowers. We have

971
00:35:29,713 --> 00:35:32,492
customers who go flowers, both for medicinal or

972
00:35:32,492 --> 00:35:33,445
ornamental use.

973
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:39,423
I'm gonna sp on? Yeah. Beads of experiments

974
00:35:39,423 --> 00:35:40,299
the pops right now?

975
00:35:41,413 --> 00:35:44,699
No. What about... Sit back to to restaurants

976
00:35:44,699 --> 00:35:46,059
or grocery stores Do...

977
00:35:46,699 --> 00:35:48,619
Are are there any of them that are

978
00:35:48,619 --> 00:35:50,719
using this as a as a marketing

979
00:35:51,514 --> 00:35:53,827
story too or that that maybe they're putting

980
00:35:53,827 --> 00:35:56,062
a farm right next to the restaurant and

981
00:35:56,062 --> 00:35:57,679
saying that we're growing locally

982
00:35:58,057 --> 00:36:00,938
or even give tours or have windows or

983
00:36:00,938 --> 00:36:04,597
something so that their customers can see this

984
00:36:04,597 --> 00:36:06,528
farm that's practically on the premises

985
00:36:07,713 --> 00:36:09,010
Yeah. It definitely

986
00:36:09,545 --> 00:36:10,580
it definitely happens.

987
00:36:11,536 --> 00:36:13,526
We we definitely see a use for marketing

988
00:36:13,526 --> 00:36:15,277
in both grocery and the restaurant.

989
00:36:16,329 --> 00:36:18,007
We are generally opposed to windows.

990
00:36:18,646 --> 00:36:19,705
So Windows

991
00:36:20,403 --> 00:36:22,480
affects the night day cycle that we're able

992
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,614
to keep and you'll actually see growth impacts

993
00:36:25,614 --> 00:36:28,014
in any place in the farmer you get

994
00:36:28,014 --> 00:36:30,255
light on the window. We definitely you have

995
00:36:30,255 --> 00:36:30,974
customers who do it.

996
00:36:32,348 --> 00:36:34,498
You know, sometimes in a more educational context,

997
00:36:34,817 --> 00:36:36,330
they'll put in a window to help hundred,

998
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:38,321
you know, help pass by understand what's going

999
00:36:38,321 --> 00:36:41,123
on. But if you're growing for output, I

1000
00:36:41,123 --> 00:36:42,237
would not recommend a window.

1001
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:46,455
Well, it's really, really fascinating. I think that

1002
00:36:46,455 --> 00:36:47,967
what what you're doing at just

1003
00:36:49,018 --> 00:36:51,331
I could see where there's there's a lot

1004
00:36:51,331 --> 00:36:53,187
of interest in this. And

1005
00:36:53,564 --> 00:36:55,239
and, I guess, the the other thing I

1006
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,052
think about though is that you could create

1007
00:36:59,002 --> 00:37:02,105
the, equivalent of of the inside of a

1008
00:37:02,105 --> 00:37:05,288
container without necessarily bringing in containers, couldn't you?

1009
00:37:05,447 --> 00:37:08,030
I mean, Couldn't you take like an abandoned

1010
00:37:08,086 --> 00:37:10,789
shopping center or something and be able to

1011
00:37:10,789 --> 00:37:13,253
build what would be the equivalent size and

1012
00:37:13,253 --> 00:37:13,651
set up?

1013
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:15,592
As a shipping container

1014
00:37:15,964 --> 00:37:18,500
in in in an area and produce food

1015
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:20,084
in it, for example. Because there's just so

1016
00:37:20,084 --> 00:37:21,059
much empty

1017
00:37:21,606 --> 00:37:23,458
parking lots and empty buildings

1018
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:25,740
around the country anymore.

1019
00:37:26,773 --> 00:37:29,411
So is it is it an alternative that

1020
00:37:29,411 --> 00:37:31,954
you wouldn't necessarily need a shipping container to

1021
00:37:31,954 --> 00:37:34,735
make a shipping container like farm.

1022
00:37:35,768 --> 00:37:37,380
Of course. Yeah. And

1023
00:37:39,041 --> 00:37:41,507
you can absolutely do that. And we actually

1024
00:37:41,507 --> 00:37:43,677
sell our software and our controls

1025
00:37:44,210 --> 00:37:46,199
to people who wanna set up custom farms

1026
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:47,312
and we'll help them with that.

1027
00:37:48,123 --> 00:37:48,863
But the

1028
00:37:49,799 --> 00:37:51,714
the reason we do the shipping container is

1029
00:37:51,714 --> 00:37:54,507
because it's much more scalable to build a

1030
00:37:54,507 --> 00:37:54,906
product.

1031
00:37:55,798 --> 00:37:57,633
So, you know, if you build 1, let's

1032
00:37:57,633 --> 00:37:59,467
say, you have a you find an abandoned

1033
00:37:59,467 --> 00:37:59,946
warehouse,

1034
00:38:01,142 --> 00:38:02,838
you're gonna have to do a lot of

1035
00:38:02,897 --> 00:38:05,210
engineering to get everything set up in there.

1036
00:38:05,940 --> 00:38:07,289
And by the time you're done with all

1037
00:38:07,289 --> 00:38:09,115
that work, it would have been cheaper to

1038
00:38:09,115 --> 00:38:10,861
just pay for the container to show up,

1039
00:38:11,655 --> 00:38:13,401
because we make the containers on an assembly

1040
00:38:13,401 --> 00:38:15,828
line and there. They're much more efficient to

1041
00:38:15,888 --> 00:38:17,726
and how they're built. And we know it's

1042
00:38:17,726 --> 00:38:19,644
gonna work because it's the same product that

1043
00:38:19,644 --> 00:38:21,162
everyone else has, and we know we can

1044
00:38:21,162 --> 00:38:22,921
support it because it's the same product everyone

1045
00:38:22,921 --> 00:38:23,320
else has.

1046
00:38:24,135 --> 00:38:24,614
And so,

1047
00:38:25,974 --> 00:38:28,055
totally fine. And many people do that.

1048
00:38:29,175 --> 00:38:31,175
We're not out there trying to compete with

1049
00:38:31,175 --> 00:38:32,855
the plenty of the world who we're doing.

1050
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:34,225
Huge custom setups.

1051
00:38:36,378 --> 00:38:37,653
But if you're trying to get started,

1052
00:38:38,849 --> 00:38:41,241
getting the containers actually gonna be faster.

1053
00:38:42,213 --> 00:38:44,922
To put it inside the abandoned warehouse. But...

1054
00:38:45,161 --> 00:38:46,994
So Jacob, if I told you, I'm I'm

1055
00:38:46,994 --> 00:38:49,306
convinced. I wonder that'd become a farmer.

1056
00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:52,280
Ballpark park, how much am I gonna have

1057
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,099
to spend

1058
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,720
totally to be able to get set up

1059
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:57,454
that if I want to be able to

1060
00:38:57,734 --> 00:38:59,812
buy the equipment and and, you know, get

1061
00:38:59,812 --> 00:39:02,209
a shipping container and get started farming.

1062
00:39:02,768 --> 00:39:04,526
How much money would I have to have

1063
00:39:04,526 --> 00:39:05,940
on hand to be able to

1064
00:39:06,535 --> 00:39:06,932
jump in.

1065
00:39:08,203 --> 00:39:10,347
So the the Msrp b for the farmers

1066
00:39:10,347 --> 00:39:11,777
is around a hundred and 50 k.

1067
00:39:12,809 --> 00:39:14,874
And then there is some level of startup

1068
00:39:14,874 --> 00:39:16,742
up cost that's gonna depend on

1069
00:39:17,597 --> 00:39:18,974
where you are and

1070
00:39:20,068 --> 00:39:21,424
how much it cost to ship there and

1071
00:39:21,424 --> 00:39:23,417
all that stuff, but, you know, you should

1072
00:39:23,417 --> 00:39:25,750
budget. It's gonna maybe 10 or 20 k

1073
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:26,070
for that.

1074
00:39:27,829 --> 00:39:28,329
And

1075
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:31,030
that's pretty much it. Right? A little bit

1076
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:32,630
of supplies, a little bit of software to

1077
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:33,885
get off the ground and

1078
00:39:34,637 --> 00:39:37,015
you'd be off and running. Now it's worth

1079
00:39:37,015 --> 00:39:37,832
noting that,

1080
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,628
many of our farmers don't necessarily have a

1081
00:39:41,628 --> 00:39:43,617
hundred and 75 grand line around.

1082
00:39:45,048 --> 00:39:46,958
We finance the farms and we'll help you

1083
00:39:46,958 --> 00:39:47,696
find financing,

1084
00:39:49,202 --> 00:39:51,676
many of our farms are financed through well

1085
00:39:51,676 --> 00:39:54,150
known banks or Usda loans or things like

1086
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:55,586
that. So just like any other,

1087
00:39:56,238 --> 00:39:58,701
far piece of farming equipment, you can, finance

1088
00:39:58,701 --> 00:40:00,449
it, you know, to pay for all upfront

1089
00:40:00,449 --> 00:40:01,243
in many cases.

1090
00:40:01,879 --> 00:40:03,094
But you certainly could

1091
00:40:03,563 --> 00:40:06,036
Well, you know, anymore, that's a couple of

1092
00:40:06,036 --> 00:40:08,110
electronic vehicles that are coming out some a

1093
00:40:08,110 --> 00:40:09,545
higher end, and they don't give you a

1094
00:40:09,545 --> 00:40:11,380
thousand pounds of lettuce us a week.

1095
00:40:12,257 --> 00:40:13,889
Exactly. Yeah. It's

1096
00:40:14,267 --> 00:40:16,922
So if people would like to know more

1097
00:40:17,060 --> 00:40:20,013
about this and find out how they could

1098
00:40:20,332 --> 00:40:21,863
how can they find information? And how do

1099
00:40:21,863 --> 00:40:24,098
they either, you know, reach you and learn

1100
00:40:24,098 --> 00:40:26,253
more about these... About these systems?

1101
00:40:27,370 --> 00:40:29,286
Yeah. So the number 1 thing is...

1102
00:40:30,340 --> 00:40:32,099
Just to check out freight forms dot com.

1103
00:40:33,059 --> 00:40:34,900
We've got lots of information there. We've got

1104
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:36,739
our business planning tool. You can reach out

1105
00:40:36,739 --> 00:40:37,699
to our sales team,

1106
00:40:38,591 --> 00:40:40,124
they can you up with a lot of

1107
00:40:40,181 --> 00:40:42,485
information. We also have a Youtube channel that

1108
00:40:42,485 --> 00:40:44,949
has a lot of different videos, and you

1109
00:40:44,949 --> 00:40:47,586
can watch a bunch of, like, tours of

1110
00:40:47,586 --> 00:40:49,096
the farm and things like that, so you

1111
00:40:49,096 --> 00:40:52,194
can get involved that way. We also do

1112
00:40:52,194 --> 00:40:53,068
fairly regular,

1113
00:40:54,022 --> 00:40:56,660
what we call digital discovery days, where you

1114
00:40:56,660 --> 00:40:58,728
get to take over virtual tour inside the

1115
00:40:58,728 --> 00:41:01,114
farm, something we started doing in the pandemic

1116
00:41:01,114 --> 00:41:01,353
care,

1117
00:41:02,148 --> 00:41:02,648
that

1118
00:41:03,597 --> 00:41:06,469
was really successful because turns out not everyone

1119
00:41:06,469 --> 00:41:07,505
is around Boston.

1120
00:41:08,463 --> 00:41:10,457
And then you can come here and and

1121
00:41:10,457 --> 00:41:12,371
check it out. We've got farms at our

1122
00:41:12,371 --> 00:41:13,978
headquarters we have regional partners,

1123
00:41:15,171 --> 00:41:17,161
in Chicago and Elsewhere go have farms that

1124
00:41:17,161 --> 00:41:18,911
you can tour, if you're,

1125
00:41:19,547 --> 00:41:21,862
interested. Do So, Jake, before we go, I

1126
00:41:21,862 --> 00:41:23,447
have a couple more quick questions for you

1127
00:41:23,526 --> 00:41:25,032
And 1 might now be that quick And

1128
00:41:25,032 --> 00:41:26,537
that is how would you get here?

1129
00:41:27,504 --> 00:41:29,340
This isn't the kind of thing that, you

1130
00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:31,575
know, you were a little kid and instead

1131
00:41:31,575 --> 00:41:33,012
of going out in playing Baseball you said

1132
00:41:33,092 --> 00:41:35,088
I'm just dreaming of someday having a freight

1133
00:41:35,088 --> 00:41:35,966
farm. You know, it's...

1134
00:41:37,497 --> 00:41:40,150
So how how does 1 go about finding

1135
00:41:40,208 --> 00:41:42,839
themselves in in freight farms like, yours... What

1136
00:41:42,839 --> 00:41:44,195
was your journey? How do you get here?

1137
00:41:47,396 --> 00:41:49,623
That's a that's a... Yeah. I'm not necessarily

1138
00:41:49,623 --> 00:41:51,135
a quick answer. I mean, I think...

1139
00:41:52,010 --> 00:41:52,487
So I...

1140
00:41:53,378 --> 00:41:54,891
I've always known that I wanted to be

1141
00:41:54,891 --> 00:41:56,007
an engineer growing up.

1142
00:41:57,042 --> 00:41:58,795
I did play baseball of other things growing

1143
00:41:58,795 --> 00:41:59,352
up too. But,

1144
00:42:00,164 --> 00:42:01,605
you know, I always knew that I wanted

1145
00:42:01,605 --> 00:42:03,605
to build stuff, and I played with legos

1146
00:42:03,605 --> 00:42:04,964
and all the cliche things and I was

1147
00:42:04,964 --> 00:42:05,204
a kid.

1148
00:42:06,804 --> 00:42:08,484
I got a mechanical engineering degree.

1149
00:42:09,059 --> 00:42:09,559
And

1150
00:42:11,217 --> 00:42:12,175
you know, essentially,

1151
00:42:12,895 --> 00:42:15,132
in in that time, I was very,

1152
00:42:17,383 --> 00:42:19,213
I was a sponge about learning what makes

1153
00:42:19,213 --> 00:42:20,725
the world a better place when I was

1154
00:42:20,725 --> 00:42:21,782
in college and

1155
00:42:22,157 --> 00:42:23,908
around that time. And so, you know, I've

1156
00:42:23,908 --> 00:42:25,659
always tried to have jobs that in some

1157
00:42:25,659 --> 00:42:27,185
way made the world... Better place.

1158
00:42:28,140 --> 00:42:30,369
And immediately after college, I actually started a

1159
00:42:30,369 --> 00:42:33,494
company called Little On. This was back in

1160
00:42:33,790 --> 00:42:35,233
with, 20 11.

1161
00:42:36,184 --> 00:42:39,434
And little Bonsai was a product studio that

1162
00:42:39,434 --> 00:42:41,258
developed some sustainable products,

1163
00:42:42,147 --> 00:42:44,535
really simple stuff, like, we did a toothbrush

1164
00:42:44,535 --> 00:42:45,035
and

1165
00:42:45,730 --> 00:42:47,401
a key chains, 1 stuff like that.

1166
00:42:48,994 --> 00:42:49,494
And

1167
00:42:50,202 --> 00:42:51,395
1 of the things we did in that

1168
00:42:51,395 --> 00:42:53,860
company was we were actually part of the

1169
00:42:53,860 --> 00:42:55,075
mass challenge accelerator.

1170
00:42:55,847 --> 00:42:57,358
And we happens to be in the mass

1171
00:42:57,358 --> 00:42:59,448
challenge accelerator, the same cohort

1172
00:42:59,758 --> 00:43:01,266
that John and Brad were in the mass

1173
00:43:01,266 --> 00:43:02,853
challenge accelerators starting freight farms.

1174
00:43:03,568 --> 00:43:05,473
And we sat near them. And so I

1175
00:43:05,473 --> 00:43:07,878
got to know those guys that summer

1176
00:43:08,664 --> 00:43:10,897
And then life goes on, and I went

1177
00:43:10,897 --> 00:43:13,072
and had a few other jobs and

1178
00:43:14,646 --> 00:43:17,119
you know, always looking for those jobs that

1179
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:19,050
would make the world a better place but

1180
00:43:19,050 --> 00:43:20,829
picking up a lot of skills and learning

1181
00:43:21,050 --> 00:43:22,089
how to build things better,

1182
00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:24,429
over the intervening time. And then,

1183
00:43:24,969 --> 00:43:25,369
you know,

1184
00:43:26,824 --> 00:43:28,662
recently, I I moved back to Boston a

1185
00:43:28,662 --> 00:43:31,298
few years ago, and it coincided with freight

1186
00:43:31,298 --> 00:43:32,438
farms evolution

1187
00:43:32,817 --> 00:43:35,387
and maturation to sort of what it is

1188
00:43:35,387 --> 00:43:36,901
today, and it was a perfect time for

1189
00:43:36,901 --> 00:43:38,974
me to come on board and making them

1190
00:43:38,974 --> 00:43:40,250
back to all the stuff that I've learned.

1191
00:43:40,568 --> 00:43:43,094
So it's kind of the the nutshell, sort

1192
00:43:44,168 --> 00:43:46,711
Well, that's a great nutshell. And I suppose

1193
00:43:46,711 --> 00:43:48,381
there's some others like you that have a

1194
00:43:48,381 --> 00:43:50,686
a journey and it's interesting too that there's

1195
00:43:50,686 --> 00:43:52,356
a part of it that you've been thinking

1196
00:43:52,356 --> 00:43:54,763
about. You know, how you'd go the right

1197
00:43:54,763 --> 00:43:57,496
direction, What's the right steps, What's contributing to

1198
00:43:58,432 --> 00:44:01,064
the environment and and I can see how

1199
00:44:01,064 --> 00:44:02,442
you can find a lots of satisfaction

1200
00:44:02,834 --> 00:44:04,512
in the areas you're working in. So let

1201
00:44:04,512 --> 00:44:07,090
me ask you this. Yeah. We are hiring

1202
00:44:07,309 --> 00:44:10,347
shameless plug. Where, I've got several positions on

1203
00:44:10,347 --> 00:44:12,025
my team. If you're an engineer and you...

1204
00:44:12,359 --> 00:44:14,428
Want a job in Ce, come hit me

1205
00:44:14,428 --> 00:44:14,507
up.

1206
00:44:15,621 --> 00:44:17,054
Can they work from home or is this

1207
00:44:17,054 --> 00:44:18,486
1 of these things they gotta go to

1208
00:44:18,486 --> 00:44:19,441
a a space.

1209
00:44:20,092 --> 00:44:22,240
Gonna, like in Boston because if you're actually

1210
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:24,309
making stuff, I I think there might be

1211
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:25,422
a limit to how much you can do

1212
00:44:25,422 --> 00:44:26,536
from your home office.

1213
00:44:27,188 --> 00:44:28,863
It depends on the team. So, I mean,

1214
00:44:29,103 --> 00:44:30,857
I run both hardware and the software teams.

1215
00:44:31,097 --> 00:44:32,771
And if you're in the hardware team, you

1216
00:44:32,771 --> 00:44:34,765
pretty much gotta be here. If you're in

1217
00:44:34,765 --> 00:44:36,281
the software team, you can work from home.

1218
00:44:37,013 --> 00:44:39,239
Just level depends on what part of the

1219
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,705
software you're working on. But generally, it's okay.

1220
00:44:42,341 --> 00:44:44,965
No, let me wrap up by asking you

1221
00:44:45,458 --> 00:44:47,686
You look down the road the next 5

1222
00:44:47,686 --> 00:44:49,516
years, say, 5 years from now.

1223
00:44:50,869 --> 00:44:52,858
What are you optimistic about? I mean, where

1224
00:44:52,858 --> 00:44:55,204
could this be? How do you see this

1225
00:44:55,344 --> 00:44:57,425
evolving. And if we're were gonna say let's

1226
00:44:57,425 --> 00:45:00,625
gonna have this conversation again about 5 years

1227
00:45:00,625 --> 00:45:00,945
from now.

1228
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:04,320
What's the best picture that we could be

1229
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,599
talking about at that time?

1230
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:08,800
I think...

1231
00:45:09,933 --> 00:45:12,326
That's an interesting question. And I appreciate the

1232
00:45:12,326 --> 00:45:14,580
optimistic spin on it because I think that

1233
00:45:16,074 --> 00:45:17,908
climate change is a real problem, and I

1234
00:45:17,908 --> 00:45:18,806
think that

1235
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:20,713
in the next 5 to 10 years,

1236
00:45:22,068 --> 00:45:23,445
we're really gonna see

1237
00:45:23,981 --> 00:45:25,278
pressure put on

1238
00:45:25,735 --> 00:45:28,222
Ce to step up in terms of its

1239
00:45:28,222 --> 00:45:29,181
place in the food system.

1240
00:45:30,378 --> 00:45:32,134
And I think we're gonna see, you know,

1241
00:45:32,374 --> 00:45:34,849
controlled environment ag, do that and step up

1242
00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:36,466
and and produce its scale

1243
00:45:37,418 --> 00:45:39,652
there's a lot of maturing of different technologies

1244
00:45:39,652 --> 00:45:41,328
that's going on now that will help with

1245
00:45:41,328 --> 00:45:41,568
that.

1246
00:45:42,206 --> 00:45:43,882
But 1 of the big things that is

1247
00:45:43,882 --> 00:45:46,609
gonna push it. That is not optimistic thing

1248
00:45:46,609 --> 00:45:49,081
is that the climate is changing and and

1249
00:45:49,081 --> 00:45:50,757
water it's becoming worse scarce,

1250
00:45:51,554 --> 00:45:52,453
especially in California.

1251
00:45:53,070 --> 00:45:55,156
If you look at the level and levels

1252
00:45:55,156 --> 00:45:56,822
in like meat and the levels in the

1253
00:45:56,822 --> 00:45:59,282
reservoirs in California. I, those are the water

1254
00:45:59,282 --> 00:46:01,582
sources that feed most the vegetables that we

1255
00:46:01,582 --> 00:46:02,296
eat in the Us.

1256
00:46:03,343 --> 00:46:04,932
And so as as those change,

1257
00:46:06,998 --> 00:46:08,825
that's gonna have real impact on the food

1258
00:46:08,825 --> 00:46:09,143
system.

1259
00:46:11,710 --> 00:46:12,030
Well,

1260
00:46:12,670 --> 00:46:14,769
unless they're going to be in

1261
00:46:15,550 --> 00:46:18,750
shipping containers, for example, and in areas that

1262
00:46:18,750 --> 00:46:19,250
have

1263
00:46:19,564 --> 00:46:22,757
still are getting 35, 40 inches of rain

1264
00:46:22,757 --> 00:46:23,496
a year

1265
00:46:23,954 --> 00:46:27,067
versus the areas that have all that sunshine

1266
00:46:27,067 --> 00:46:29,417
and are getting 12 or 20

1267
00:46:30,431 --> 00:46:33,082
inches of a rain a year and

1268
00:46:33,697 --> 00:46:36,008
running a week at a time of over

1269
00:46:36,008 --> 00:46:38,022
a hundred degrees too. So

1270
00:46:38,974 --> 00:46:39,695
there's that.

1271
00:46:40,335 --> 00:46:42,894
So I'm... I'm glad you appreciate the fact

1272
00:46:42,894 --> 00:46:44,655
that I was putting a positive spin on

1273
00:46:44,655 --> 00:46:46,829
it, But now you you've puzzled me. I'm

1274
00:46:46,829 --> 00:46:48,989
trying to get back to another 4 more

1275
00:46:48,989 --> 00:46:50,989
positive bill. There's a lot to be concerned

1276
00:46:50,989 --> 00:46:53,070
about, though. I think the positive Pain is

1277
00:46:53,070 --> 00:46:55,394
there. You know, I I do think that

1278
00:46:55,394 --> 00:46:56,053
the technology

1279
00:46:56,429 --> 00:46:58,737
that's been deployed these days in Ce is

1280
00:46:58,737 --> 00:46:59,635
good enough

1281
00:47:00,010 --> 00:47:02,637
to produce food at scale in a predictable

1282
00:47:02,637 --> 00:47:05,914
way and can displace that technique. And so,

1283
00:47:06,073 --> 00:47:08,061
like I mentioned before, or I alluded to,

1284
00:47:08,380 --> 00:47:09,675
I think of climate change

1285
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:12,446
and solutions as living known a spectrum. And

1286
00:47:12,446 --> 00:47:14,906
on 1 spectrum is the mitigation side of

1287
00:47:14,906 --> 00:47:18,025
things. So just purely how can we reduce

1288
00:47:18,969 --> 00:47:20,887
you know, carbon emissions, methane emissions.

1289
00:47:21,686 --> 00:47:23,044
On the other side of the climate spectrum,

1290
00:47:23,204 --> 00:47:25,041
My think of it is the adaptation side,

1291
00:47:25,201 --> 00:47:25,861
which is,

1292
00:47:26,973 --> 00:47:28,887
solutions that, okay. Like, we accept that this

1293
00:47:28,887 --> 00:47:31,280
is gonna happen to some degree, but we

1294
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:31,918
also know,

1295
00:47:32,954 --> 00:47:35,028
optimistic the humans will adapt and live in

1296
00:47:35,028 --> 00:47:36,225
the world as it changes.

1297
00:47:37,273 --> 00:47:38,566
And so I think

1298
00:47:38,939 --> 00:47:39,439
Ce

1299
00:47:40,050 --> 00:47:41,558
solutions can play in both of those. If

1300
00:47:41,558 --> 00:47:45,012
you're using the correct power profiles. They are

1301
00:47:45,229 --> 00:47:47,380
mitigation on traditional what traditional eye is doing.

1302
00:47:48,336 --> 00:47:48,836
And,

1303
00:47:49,213 --> 00:47:51,306
you know, in 10 years from now as

1304
00:47:51,364 --> 00:47:53,117
water usage evolves in the west.

1305
00:47:54,007 --> 00:47:55,439
We may see them coming into their own

1306
00:47:55,439 --> 00:47:56,973
as an adaptation technology

1307
00:47:58,064 --> 00:47:58,462
as well.

1308
00:47:59,814 --> 00:48:02,220
Jake, as we ramp up, I wanna remind

1309
00:48:02,220 --> 00:48:03,359
everybody again Ce.

1310
00:48:03,737 --> 00:48:05,731
You keep saying the acronym and for people

1311
00:48:05,731 --> 00:48:07,429
listening. They're not used to Ce.

1312
00:48:07,966 --> 00:48:11,656
So is controlled environment agriculture, which is

1313
00:48:12,266 --> 00:48:14,724
slightly different than greenhouse in that,

1314
00:48:15,597 --> 00:48:16,097
greenhouse

1315
00:48:16,803 --> 00:48:20,228
isn't fully artificial from a light and atmosphere

1316
00:48:20,228 --> 00:48:23,097
standpoint, but controlled environment agriculture generally is.

1317
00:48:24,548 --> 00:48:26,945
Well, we've learned a lot today. I wanna

1318
00:48:26,945 --> 00:48:29,582
thank you. Jake Fe with freight farms. Thanks

1319
00:48:29,582 --> 00:48:31,020
for being on farm to table talk.

1320
00:48:32,072 --> 00:48:33,584
You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

1321
00:48:44,530 --> 00:48:46,664
You've been listening to farm to table talk

1322
00:48:46,863 --> 00:48:49,163
your host, Roger Watson. If you like what

1323
00:48:49,163 --> 00:48:49,322
you.

1324
00:48:54,715 --> 00:48:54,849
With