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Not long ago,

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we talked about church libraries and
how these resources can help Christians

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find the best books, including
if not now, then in the future,

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Christian made fantastical fiction,
what then about public libraries?

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How can Christians best discern
and enjoy this resource? Today?

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We are speaking with a public library
director who also happens to be a prolific

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Christian novelist of sci-fi fantasy
steam, punk, paranormal suspense,

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and beyond Steve Raza.

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And he is the first Steve for
our new saga of epic episodes

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that we are assembling for
September here on fantastical truth.

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Welcome a new to fantastical truth.
The podcast from Laura haven.com.

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Here we explore fantastical stories for
God's glory and apply their meanings to

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the real world. Jesus calls us
to serve I'm me, Steven Burnett.

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I publish Laura Haven. I'm also the
co-author of the pop culture parents.

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And I'm Zachary Russell and
no offense to our guest today.

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But my favorite librarian will always
be Conan the librarian from the

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1980s. We are Al Yankovic movie UHF,

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but this is episode 128.

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How can Christian fans engage
their local libraries? And yes,

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we'll be joined by librarian
and author. Steve Raza.

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This episode is part
one of our Steve saga,

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a new epic trilogy for the
month of September. Today,

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we have the first Steve
and in our next episode,

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we will have an additional Steve.
And then for the trilogy ender,

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we will have a finale, Steve,
and then who knows the franchise,

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maybe ripe for expansion with
even more. Steve's beyond that.

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We'll have to see if we can get even
more sequels, maybe a reboot or two, uh,

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out of this franchise. We're looking
forward to taking a behind the scenes,

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look in, uh, Christian publishing,
where these stories come from,

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how they get shared.

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And that's what Steve Raza who makes
many of these stories himself will be

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sharing today at the public library level.

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Boy, that would be funny if like we,

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we put this filter on the show that from
now on your name must be Steve to join

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first name, last name, last
name Stevenson, Steve. You know,

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obviously you're Steven, which yeah, I
didn't even think about you as Steve.

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Did anyone ever call you Steve Steven.

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Every once in a while? And it may come
up as we go forward into this series. Uh,

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whereas another, uh,

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cinematic universe of stories has
a lot of Chrises among the cast.

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It just seems that, uh,

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Christian publishing for some reason has
a lot of Steve's, but I will note too,

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that in the Marvel universe, a surprising
amount of superheroes have the name,

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Steve, Steve Rogers, Steven
strange even moon night,

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I think has the name Steven. So, uh,

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obviously there's just
something about the name, uh,

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Steven or Steve that makes you
into a hero. Speaking of which, uh,

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speaking of Christian publishing,

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let's go real quick to our cover
sponsor for this episode. Once again,

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it is enclave publishing, uh,
that is our cover sponsor here,

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focusing on the novel
flight by Kristin young,

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which is coming out on September the 13th.

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Here's the cover description
on the cusp of graduation.

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Cadence is finally feeling in control.

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She's about to become one
of the prestigious elites
working in the hall of love.

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Plus she can take her place as a full
member of the underground sirens who meets

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secretly in love city.

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She will finally be able to
use her memory skills for good,

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instead of reporting people as a watcher,

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but a dangerous trap is set throwing
cadence into unwelcome and unfamiliar

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territory.

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Someone in the collective remembers things
that could very well get her killed.

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The muse is by her side after all,

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but will she be protected when someone
powerful wants her dead enclave

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publishing presents
flight by Kristin young,

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the third book and the
collective underground series
it's available September

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13, wherever books are sold.

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It's also available in audio
book format from Oasis audio.

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You can get the links to Amazon and
Christian book.com to purchase flight,

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as well as the audible link
for the upcoming audio book
flight by Kristen young,

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get those links in our show
notes for this episode 128,

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or be going to Laura
haven.com/podcast sponsors.

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So I suddenly hear some triumphant
sounding March music composed by, uh,

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the late Jerry Goldsmith and, uh,
warp engines in the distance, uh,

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blinking into that little shine of light
into the distant blackness of space.

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Let's see who's arriving via Starship

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Library, director and novelist.

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Steve Raza has just arrived via Federation
Starship traveling at just over warp

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five, Steve Raza, doesn't slay monsters,

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but he defeats ward count goals
and Vanquis overdue books.

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He's the author of many novels
of science fiction and fantasy,

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including the award
winning tales, broken site,

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mercury on guard and mercury
at risk when he's not writing,

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he is running a library in Wyoming.

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Find his stories@steveraza.com and
finds Steve Raza himself in the studio.

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Steve, thanks for joining us to
be our first Steve of the Steve.

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Saga. Thanks for having us
Steven or having me here
with you guys, I should say.

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Yeah, it's great to see you
Zach. So, uh, so tell us, Steve,

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how did you discover biblical truth
and fantastical stories? So how,

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how did you,

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and which came first and when did
you accept Aslan as your personal

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lion and savior? As we like to say.

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<Laugh> wait, that's a really
loaded question. Um, well, you know,

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I had always been sci-fi
space, opera, nerd geek,

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whatever you wanna call it, uh, you know,

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grew up watching next generation had
watched some of the original star Trek,

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loved star wars.

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So I can fan about both of
those equally and share the joy,

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but really the tie between
the faith part didn't come.

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I was working on some ideas
when I kind of came back to the

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Christian faith,

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I guess you could say when I was in
college and most people have stories about

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people losing their faith in college
and mine was the opposite. Okay.

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For that because.

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I was a that's reconstruction. There you
go. Reconstruction. That's how you do.

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There you go.

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Yes. It was a, um,

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a journey from getting
done with Vatican two

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Catholicism that I grew
up in as, you know,

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slightly better than C E during those
days, and then not much of anything.

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And then getting into the more
evangelical side of things later,

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eventually becoming a Lutheran,
but that's a long story.

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You swam the tiger back the opposite
direction. Very much a contrary.

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I appreciate.

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It. Right. I tend to do that. Um, but
one of the things that really got to me,

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the two biggest influences, I
would say, especially on my space,

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upper writing were Timothy Z's
air to the empire trilogy from

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the secular side of things. And
from the Christian side of things,

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Chris Wally's lamb among stars. Oh.

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Yes, really. That's my absolute.

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Really, really that's the
one where I went, wow,

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you can actually do this
and make it, make it.

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Goods an end times perspective.
It's not often seen in, uh,

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Christian futuristic fiction. Uh, Zachs
often referenced this underappreciated,

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lesser known series as being a rare
example of post-millennial, uh,

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prophecy type, uh, type series.

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Yeah. And it's, you know,
it's not the, you know,

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eschatology I particularly hold to,

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but that's what I love about it is
that it's so different and it's so like

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imaginative and it's just
this whole other universe,

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basically that it's fun to consider.

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And the other one I almost forgot
about and I'm kicking myself,

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I'm almost forgetting about is
Kathy tire's Firebird series.

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Those two were the biggest influences
on leaning me toward that, uh,

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biblical truth in a fantastical
story world. Yeah. Um, again,

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they both take these
suppositions of, you know, what,

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if something different happened with
the faith that we all kind of take for

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granted and, and then just run with it
and create these two really amazing, uh,

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story universes.

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Yeah. Okay. So now as it Trek,

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I'm sure you've got your top
10 or top two or three, uh,

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star Trek, NextGen episodes. And
I I've got mine, but what, what,

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what are yours?

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Well, definitely. Best of both worlds.

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Yeah. I knew who.

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Say that back to back. Yeah. I mean
it's yes. You kind of have to <laugh>.

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Yeah.

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It's it's one of the articles of
the creed of the next generation is.

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Part, one was the first
star Trek TNG episode.

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I remember actually seeing, oh,
so what a high point. That's.

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Cool. Jump into, go.

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Discover the series. Yes.

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Uh, let me think. What are some
other ones I really liked? Um,

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I can't remember the name of the
two parter, but I always got a kick.

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It wasn't the best episode,

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but I always got a kick out of the one
where Picard was pretending he was a monk

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among a bunch of space
pirates. I can't remember.

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It was the one that had to do with like
some sort of Vulcan sci ancient Vulcan

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sci weapon that would like use your own
fear and anger to kill you if somebody's

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AP you with it or something
like that. Oh, okay.

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It was a really kind fun and different
gait back set of episode gambit.

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Is that what it was called? Okay.

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Yeah. I'm just looking at memory
alpha dot. Yeah. Cause I'm,

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I'm not much of a Trek nerd <laugh>.

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It was something about
like Picard had a, uh,

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archeologist friend who
died or something I think,

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and he kind of picked up the mystery,
but I liked it because, you know,

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we'd had multiple seasons of Picard's
Dixon hill on the hos solving mysteries

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there. And this was like,

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he finally got to apply it to real
world and you could just kinda see,

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he was like, yay. And he was undercover.

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And he's got that, uh, you
know, archeologist Ben. Okay.

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Now this is interesting. I just, uh,
this is a real deep nerd dive here,

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but I just pulled this up on memory alpha
and the teleplay was by Nan Shankar,

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who was the show runner
for the expanse series. Oh.

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Oh.

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That's why that finished on Amazon.

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So that's really interesting to see
that he got started with this. You know,

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I don't remember this episode. I'm gonna
have to go back and watch this now. Um,

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I.

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Had just binge watched some
next generation this summer
and earlier this year,

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I think, and picked up on it again. I
was like, oh yeah, I remember that one.

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And the other one of course,
that I really like is,

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must be chain of command again,

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it's one of those ones where they'll
like doing their black ops mission and

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Angelos in charge at the enterprise and
things. I just thought it was really, I,

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I like some of these character
deep dive type of things.

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So this whole thing with Riker
is used to Picard's commander.

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Now he's got this other dude in
charge of records. Like how do I,

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how do I Riker with yeah.
With this guy around this?

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Yeah, yeah.

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You're gonna have to get in the
chair the front way, this time suck.

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You're just gonna have to do it.

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Theo is the, was the.

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Temporary's become a
meme now he tells bad.

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Jokes. There's a, there's a whole
Twitter channel. I follow called,

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like JCO star Trek or
something. And it's just like,

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I see a few of us like random, like
insane kinda thing. It's the, he.

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Might've said it sounds like a goofy name.

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That's why it took off and
became a meme, I guess.

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And it's just like outta the rest,
everybody at the clip was like, what?

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<laugh>, I've seen a few of those.
They're pretty good. But I think those,

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you know,

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it's funny that I think those are the
ones I remember the most are the two part

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ones, just because maybe it's just
because it's an extended story.

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They pack a whole lot more in,

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but I think those three are really my
top ones that I can remember going. Wow.

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Those are cool. And I wanna see it again.

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Nice.

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So those stories plus the books that
you read and we'll, we'll get to, uh,

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more of your stories in the Raza
verse, which is my name for it.

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00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,720
I don't think it's your name. I
don't think it's website. I'm good,

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00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,360
but I'm just gonna call it that. Yeah,
it's all, it's all connected folks.

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It's all part of the Steve
Roza multiverse. Uh, but
it's not only star Trek,

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but stories like the Timothy Zo novels,
uh, the Kathy tires books as well, uh,

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that helped, uh, push you down
this path. And by the way,

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now that we're into the Steve saga, uh,
Steve one here is just accidentally, uh,

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00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,840
planted an Easter egg for the origin
story of Kathy tire's books, uh,

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that we get to in our next episode, uh,

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that'll be episode two of the
Steve saga. So stay tuned, uh,

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definitely pay more of your theater
dollars for this ever expanding franchise.

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In addition to making books, you
are also helping to loan books. Uh,

223
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,160
you are the director of the public
library there in Wyoming, uh,

224
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,240
which leads us to, uh, chapter one here.

225
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,480
Why do public libraries still
matter in an internet age? Uh,

226
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,400
we want to talk about, uh,
the public library as an idea,

227
00:12:02,770 --> 00:12:06,280
as a resource that Christians
can still enjoy. Uh,

228
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,400
despite some controversies going on, uh,

229
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,680
I view the public library is still
an instrument of God's common grace.

230
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,920
What's your take on that,
especially when, well,

231
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,840
I can just stay at home and
order all my books from Amazon,

232
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,960
or maybe pirate books or get 'em for free,

233
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,720
or why do we still need public libraries?

234
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:24,120
Part of it is that sometimes you have
people like me who as much as I think

235
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,960
eBooks are a good thing, and it's
really handy that people can read them.

236
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:31,480
I just can't read eBooks. It's
a weird, weird thing. It's not,

237
00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:35,400
it's not that they're not good
because the same story to me,

238
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:38,480
I can read it in paperback and love it,
but I try to read it in the ebook form.

239
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:39,313
I just can't,

240
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,450
I don't know if it's a concentration
thing or what it is because I could read

241
00:12:43,490 --> 00:12:47,170
blogs and shorter things all day. Just
something about the way I'm wired.

242
00:12:47,170 --> 00:12:50,690
I it's gotta be a paperback for me
and it's not even like a philosophical

243
00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:54,170
difference type of thing. It's just a,
yeah. Something about I start doing,

244
00:12:54,170 --> 00:12:56,010
I'm like, ah, I can't
pay attention or I get,

245
00:12:56,010 --> 00:12:57,410
I don't know if I get distracted or what,

246
00:12:57,410 --> 00:13:00,570
but when it's a book I can really
hunker down and dive into it.

247
00:13:00,570 --> 00:13:02,490
So I think there's still a lot
of people who are like that.

248
00:13:02,620 --> 00:13:04,410
Another thing to consider too,

249
00:13:04,410 --> 00:13:09,270
is that as good as eBooks
are there really isn't it

250
00:13:09,270 --> 00:13:12,750
really, from what I can tell
hasn't supplanted children's books,

251
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,030
because with a lot of children's books,
especially for early elementary age,

252
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:19,590
you know, they're those big wide format,

253
00:13:19,770 --> 00:13:23,510
but thin ones where you pop 'em open and
there's just gorgeous artwork and stuff

254
00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:27,550
like that. Um, and good stories
though, too, of course, but it's, you,

255
00:13:27,550 --> 00:13:31,470
you can't really replicate that big open
and on your lap with your kid format,

256
00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:33,590
when it's on a device that
tends to be the small,

257
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:37,000
unless you have a tablet that's
like, you know, 15 inches wider.

258
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,000
<Laugh> or, or it's the, your 20, 35
and that eBooks have gone holographic,

259
00:13:41,020 --> 00:13:43,600
but there the even then
that would not be tangible.

260
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,480
Like you've got this
hologram technology, uh, it,

261
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:47,800
it's not something you can touch.

262
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,480
It's not an object that takes up space
that literally feels weighty and it adds

263
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,560
importance and significance
to, uh, the joy of reading.

264
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,360
Right. And I think that's part of it for
a lot of people too. And so, you know,

265
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,520
just, just anecdotally from
our own experience at our
small library in Buffalo,

266
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,760
Wyoming, up in the
Northeast part of the state,

267
00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:10,080
we have seen more of a shift
to ebook and a decline in

268
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,070
regular book reading.

269
00:14:12,250 --> 00:14:16,270
But the biggest decline really has
been in non-fiction versus fiction.

270
00:14:16,780 --> 00:14:21,190
Like our fiction stats for
physical books are fairly steady.

271
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,070
They're not really spiking and
they're not dropping either,

272
00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:28,760
but non-fiction has been on a kind
of steady decline, at least for us.

273
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,080
Interesting. Uh,

274
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,520
and it's not too surprising when we start
looking into what kind of books you're

275
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,800
talking about, because really people
are still reading biographies, history,

276
00:14:38,070 --> 00:14:41,080
politics, things like that, books,

277
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,680
they aren't reading and used to read
a lot of our craft books, cookbooks,

278
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,770
even self-help to some extent, those, I.

279
00:14:48,770 --> 00:14:50,370
Feel like those are all
things you can get on the.

280
00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:54,200
Internet. Exactly. Exactly. Now you
can get a biography on the internet,

281
00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:58,320
but it's way it's still it's close enough.

282
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,070
I feel like to fiction
in the storytelling sense

283
00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:06,830
than something like that and how to
book would be, if that makes sense.

284
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:10,910
It's more like the, the
biographies and other things like,

285
00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:14,870
and historical books have really leaned
into telling it more like a narrative

286
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:17,910
story than a textbook
mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh,
to explain a little bit, uh,

287
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:21,310
Nathaniel Philbrick, if you've
never read any of his history stuff,

288
00:15:21,310 --> 00:15:24,610
I highly recommend his books. Um,

289
00:15:24,610 --> 00:15:28,770
he's got some really good ones that I've
used for inspiration on various things,

290
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:32,610
but again, it's, so we've seen that
kind of shift. You know, we have seen,

291
00:15:32,610 --> 00:15:36,330
especially in the past couple years
with COVID more of a lean toward eBooks,

292
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,210
it's become a much bigger part
of our circulation locally.

293
00:15:39,790 --> 00:15:41,810
And part of that is just because, um,

294
00:15:41,890 --> 00:15:45,170
about half of that circulation
has been in audio. You know,

295
00:15:45,170 --> 00:15:48,850
the audio explosion has really
been something we've noticed too.

296
00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:51,090
So I feel like it's,

297
00:15:51,790 --> 00:15:55,120
I feel like it's one of those things
where it's becoming a mix, you know,

298
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,800
eBooks have supplanted part
of physical reading habits,

299
00:15:59,860 --> 00:16:03,800
but not replaced all of it. And they
probably won't replace all of it.

300
00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:07,760
I think it'll just become another
thing that libraries off or,

301
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,520
and it may vary where you are and what
part of the country you live in and what

302
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,400
audience there is as to how much of it.

303
00:16:14,860 --> 00:16:17,480
But I don't think it's gonna be
at ever replace it kind of thing.

304
00:16:17,710 --> 00:16:21,320
Yeah. That doesn't surprise
me. That eBooks are, you know,

305
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,480
you find that a challenge. I I've read
a lot of studies about this, that,

306
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,960
you know, with the physical book, you
have a 3d sense of space, you know,

307
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,680
front to back top to bottom. And
you can actually remember like your,

308
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,840
your brain can remember where in
the book in like a 3d coordinate,

309
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,200
you read something, whereas
with an ebook it's just a,

310
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,480
it's a flat 2d experience.

311
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,600
And so there's no sense of like
where in the book was that thing.

312
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,000
And we actually remember things much
more easily inaccurately from physical

313
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,280
books than with eBooks. And, you know,

314
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,040
I say this as someone who has hundreds
of Kindle books <laugh>, uh, and I,

315
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,560
and I love, I love having Kindles
and that Kindle was the first, uh,

316
00:16:59,870 --> 00:17:03,560
device like electronic device. I let
my own kids have, cause I'm like, well,

317
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,920
all you can do is read a book on it.
So that's fine by me. There you go.

318
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,920
But you know, it's, uh, it's
funny to think now about,

319
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:12,880
we we've re reference this a couple
times before there was this, uh,

320
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,600
viral commercial in the 1990s by at and T.

321
00:17:15,860 --> 00:17:18,800
And it was kind of like predicting
the technologies of the future.

322
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,560
And one of them it predicted was
eBooks, but they didn't predict tablets.

323
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,600
They predicted like books that you
download to a computer and not a personal

324
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,760
computer at home, but a
computer in the library.

325
00:17:29,650 --> 00:17:32,560
So it was really interesting
how they, they couldn't imagine,

326
00:17:33,260 --> 00:17:35,840
not only could they not
imagine mobile devices,

327
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,480
they couldn't imagine people not
going to libraries. And I always,

328
00:17:40,510 --> 00:17:43,480
I look back on that now and I'm
like, it's easy to kinda laugh at it,

329
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,280
but I'm like, no, I really
like that. I, I like that.

330
00:17:46,550 --> 00:17:49,120
Even 30 years ago people said, Hey,

331
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,360
the library is still gonna
be part of our modern world.

332
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:55,360
And they were actually correct
about that. I mean, my,

333
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,000
my wife takes our kids all the time to
the library because of those children's

334
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,920
books that you'd mentioned.
And because, you know,

335
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,120
a lot of times the children's books are
really short. Sure. So it's like, why,

336
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,680
why would we, you know, buy
20 of these little, you know,

337
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,120
magic Treehouse books and
we can just rent or sorry,

338
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:11,880
check out all of these books.

339
00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:15,320
Well, and that's the other thing too,
about the library aspect, like, you know,

340
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:20,240
even with the physical books and your
access to the, the return on investment,

341
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,960
which is a goofy term, but yeah,

342
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,280
it makes sense compared to usually what
your tax dollars are for supporting a

343
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,800
library is really, really good. I mean,
in our, in our county where, you know,

344
00:18:31,130 --> 00:18:35,160
in a lot of other counties
where the library doesn't
get a lot of tax money, uh,

345
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,640
I mean, you know, my property
tax bill just came the other day.

346
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,760
And I think my share of the property tax
bill for the library is like 17 bucks.

347
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,840
Hmm. For the year it's like, okay,

348
00:18:44,990 --> 00:18:48,880
I go do one checkout and I've gotten
my return on investment <laugh>. So,

349
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,960
I mean, you know, think
about people who check out,

350
00:18:51,790 --> 00:18:53,600
even if you just check out a book a month,

351
00:18:53,790 --> 00:18:57,600
12 books a year times the cost of
whatever that would cost in an ebook and

352
00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,800
whatever. I mean, you're
probably earning some of that,

353
00:18:59,870 --> 00:19:03,080
a good chunk of that back. Uh, and then,
you know, of course, like you said,

354
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,560
families who get multiple children's
books each time they come,

355
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,680
you're definitely getting
a good deal on that.

356
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,920
Maybe that could become the
new slogan of public libraries,

357
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,960
the library you're already paying for it.

358
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:16,360
That's something that our libraries
have always pushed. Um, but you know,

359
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:17,600
the other thing too, is that, you know,

360
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,720
even on the book and
circulation side of things,

361
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:23,870
I think one thing that people
don't often think about, and I,

362
00:19:23,870 --> 00:19:27,350
I know that other libraries have done a
good job of pushing it, but, you know,

363
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:30,350
there's all these other things.
And I don't mean extra programs,

364
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:35,190
but I mean like other services that
libraries reside like in our small town,

365
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,270
if you need technical help with something
that you can't figure out to do,

366
00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:42,990
you've got either a computer shop with
the owner and one employee who probably

367
00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:43,823
wants you to pay for it,

368
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:48,350
or you can swing by the library and see
if we can scan something and email it

369
00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:48,590
for you.

370
00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:52,350
Or if we can help you figure out how to
get this form printed and downloaded.

371
00:19:52,350 --> 00:19:56,780
Cause the rest of local government is not
going to do that. It's just not their,

372
00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,590
what they're supposed to do. Really.

373
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,630
So a lot of the visitors we
get for help with other things,

374
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:06,270
even if they're not
reading something, it's,

375
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:11,190
I've gotta scan and fax this document
to get it signed for a real estate

376
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:15,190
thing. Or my bank needs this or the
health insurance has to have this stuff.

377
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,670
So that's what we spend
a lot of time doing too.

378
00:20:17,980 --> 00:20:19,310
I must confess Steve.

379
00:20:19,310 --> 00:20:22,790
I have not been to the public library
in our area for quite some time,

380
00:20:22,790 --> 00:20:26,950
but that's mainly a job hazard for
me, uh, publishing Laura haven.com.

381
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:29,310
We get plenty of books. <laugh>,

382
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:32,150
we've had some physical
copies mailed here and there,

383
00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:36,950
but mostly just to simplify the review,
uh, process, we do end up getting,

384
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:38,310
uh, those digital books. Oh yeah.

385
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:40,390
And I have often wondered a
little behind the scenes here,

386
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:44,350
but I've often wondered does the act of
reading them digitally cuz we want to

387
00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:46,670
get them to the reviewer. Who's
most likely to enjoy the book,

388
00:20:47,230 --> 00:20:52,080
does this in some way, risk affecting the
review because as Zach was mentioning,

389
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:55,560
it's an electronic copy. Uh, it
doesn't take physical space. Uh,

390
00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,440
you don't have these really abstract
3d coordinates in your head about where

391
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,440
exactly on the page, uh, you get to
the Misty mountains, you know, there's,

392
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,400
there's almost a mimicry of 3d
space, at least for a story. Uh,

393
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,080
and I, I don't think that for
our review team members, um,

394
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,400
that's maybe me overthinking
it. I doubt that they do.

395
00:21:14,660 --> 00:21:19,120
But I have noticed though, like I, I can
go between eBooks and physical books,

396
00:21:19,180 --> 00:21:23,760
but I prefer the fiction in
physical form. If I can get it.

397
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:25,960
I think that this does
enhance the experience.

398
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:29,760
I think for a narrative similar to a
biographies as y'all were mentioning,

399
00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:34,640
I think the narrative does lend itself
better to, uh, an object in 3d space.

400
00:21:34,810 --> 00:21:38,320
Whereas I do a lot better
if I'm reading eBooks,

401
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,200
I do a lot better if it's a nonfiction,

402
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,160
because now we're talking about theology
or philosophy or something like that.

403
00:21:45,230 --> 00:21:48,920
Like that to me, uh, takes a
different side of the brain.

404
00:21:49,150 --> 00:21:52,320
It's a different way of thinking
than you would if you were going, uh,

405
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,360
from a point a to point B a narrative.

406
00:21:54,410 --> 00:21:56,920
So that may be at least
for some of us out there.

407
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,400
I'm guessing that that
may be the difference.

408
00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:02,080
But I do remember though going to
the public library before eBooks, uh,

409
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,360
before a whole lot of internet and
everything, that is how I discovered, uh,

410
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:07,680
the, uh, humor writer, Dave Barry, uh,

411
00:22:07,930 --> 00:22:09,880
my library would just
have several of his books.

412
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,000
I would just cycle through them. Uh,
they also had Calvin and Hobbs books.

413
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,960
So before we bought our own, we could
enjoy some of those at the library.

414
00:22:17,670 --> 00:22:19,320
I also later in life, uh,

415
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,760
when I wasn't sure if I wanted to
buy Harry Potter books, cuz you know,

416
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,040
they might still be evil after all.
It was kind of taken a chance here.

417
00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:29,840
You could get them from the public
library. And when book seven came out,

418
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,800
I got in line to uh, read book seven.

419
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,800
I think I was the 37th place
in line or something like that.

420
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,320
But I must have ordered 37 books, uh,
because I got to mine pretty quickly.

421
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:41,880
And then we were talking
earlier about star Trek.

422
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,120
That's how I got through a lot of these
star Trek seasons. Oh nice. For the,

423
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:46,600
the streaming. I didn't wanna pirate it,

424
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,120
but you could go to your library and
you could get the DVD copies, uh,

425
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:54,300
from deep space, nine seasons, one through
seven. So that's how I first got to,

426
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:56,300
uh, to enjoy that series. And it just,

427
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:59,180
it just illustrates that although there
may be controversies and you know,

428
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,580
the idea of libraries
may get in the news, uh,

429
00:23:01,580 --> 00:23:03,580
for different reasons
that are controversial.

430
00:23:03,580 --> 00:23:05,340
We'll talk about that in a little bit. Uh,

431
00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:08,140
this is still a great tool
that Christian families,

432
00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:11,620
readers fans of any kind can enjoy, uh,

433
00:23:11,620 --> 00:23:15,500
in order to engage with these stories
as part of your community, uh,

434
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:18,980
rather than just as an individual and
of course save some money doing it.

435
00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:21,020
Cuz as you said, you're
already paying for it. Yeah.

436
00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:25,820
Exactly. One other thought about
nonfiction books. So, uh, I saw this, uh,

437
00:23:26,130 --> 00:23:29,620
this post the other day that went viral
and I'm sure this guy got all this hate

438
00:23:29,620 --> 00:23:33,540
mail. He's like, Hey pro tip. If there's
a nonfiction book, you wanna buy,

439
00:23:33,770 --> 00:23:37,620
just go to YouTube and type in the
author's name and the title of their book.

440
00:23:37,620 --> 00:23:40,820
And they've probably given
a speech that <laugh> like,

441
00:23:40,820 --> 00:23:43,540
they've probably given a
talk. That's the, you know,

442
00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:46,720
the top points of their book book
in 30 minutes or less and Hey,

443
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,120
you got that for free. There we go.
I saved you a book purchase. I mean,

444
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:53,800
I'm like, okay. I wonder if that
actually works. But if it does that,

445
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,240
that's either a brilliant life hack
or that's uh, that's something,

446
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:57,960
but it won't.

447
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,240
Work for me. None of my speed
just for my book or on YouTube,

448
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,280
you might get 'em at a homeschool
conference here and there,

449
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,480
but not on the YouTubes.

450
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,713
Far as I know.

451
00:24:05,150 --> 00:24:05,760
Well I.

452
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,000
Have to be a big author.

453
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:07,830
Yeah.

454
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:10,680
I don't really have a preferred
format for nonfiction, but I,

455
00:24:11,210 --> 00:24:13,160
my main thing is I like to take notes.

456
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,600
Like I'd like to take notes
in the book with a pin,

457
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,720
which is a big no-no for libraries and
yeah, we F all that can tell us your.

458
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:20,683
We frow on that.

459
00:24:20,780 --> 00:24:22,280
I'm sure you've got some stories there.

460
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,560
<Laugh> somebody using a, uh, a burrito
as a bookmark, that type of thing. Yeah.

461
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,160
Don't least we.

462
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,920
Have to ask. I remember that one. I've
never, never seen the burrito one,

463
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,560
but you know, we there's a
story. I always tell there's a,

464
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:38,610
there was a comic series cartoon called
UNSF and it was a librarian and a

465
00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:43,010
cartoon artist who were buddies and they
wrote it and it's like most people who

466
00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:44,650
would check it out or read it,

467
00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:48,370
wouldn't really get the humor unless
you've worked in a library. Oh,

468
00:24:48,370 --> 00:24:52,210
it's for libraries. It's so spot
on. It's so hysterical. But anyway,

469
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,450
they came to a conference of ours
here in Wyoming back in like 2010,

470
00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:59,490
I think is where I first met them and
heard of them and bought their stuff.

471
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:00,650
They're like, okay,

472
00:25:00,650 --> 00:25:04,610
we asked this question at every
conference we go to for libraries in every

473
00:25:04,690 --> 00:25:05,480
state,

474
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:10,210
what is the weirdest thing you've ever
found as a bookmark and people would

475
00:25:10,210 --> 00:25:13,010
throw up their hands and they're
like, okay, now here's our question.

476
00:25:13,310 --> 00:25:17,890
How many of you have found a strip of
bacon as a bookmark <laugh> and in the

477
00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:20,610
back of the room, couple of the
librarians from a bigger library,

478
00:25:20,610 --> 00:25:24,450
their hands shot up and he go and they
started laughing and we're laughing and

479
00:25:24,450 --> 00:25:28,210
they go, every state we go to every
library conference, including Hawaii,

480
00:25:29,290 --> 00:25:31,370
somebody says they found
bacon as a bookmark.

481
00:25:31,650 --> 00:25:32,300
<Laugh>.

482
00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:33,770
Regular, all Turkey.

483
00:25:34,150 --> 00:25:35,690
And we're just like, we're like, wow,

484
00:25:35,690 --> 00:25:38,010
what a way to ruin books
and also waste bacon.

485
00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:42,050
Right? Yeah. How, how would you leave
that bacon uneaten? Like I hope.

486
00:25:42,050 --> 00:25:44,610
That it's, but we've
found, so we've found, uh,

487
00:25:44,610 --> 00:25:48,290
the one that recurs the most that's odd
is people will take out books about,

488
00:25:48,290 --> 00:25:52,130
you know, scavenging scrounging for
different kinds of mushrooms in the wild.

489
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:54,970
And we'll get the books back and
there'll be mushrooms as bookmarks.

490
00:25:55,020 --> 00:25:55,853
Oh, Ooh.

491
00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:58,690
Which usually is okay, because
they're really dried out.

492
00:25:58,690 --> 00:26:03,530
And so they don't stain the pages.
<laugh> so, and yeah, so that's okay.

493
00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:05,770
That's the funny one there every
once in a while, let's see.

494
00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:10,530
I used to occasionally get CD books in
the big heavy cases. They'd come back.

495
00:26:10,530 --> 00:26:13,330
You'd pop it open. There'd be
unused cigarette in there. Oh,

496
00:26:13,330 --> 00:26:15,970
like oddly specific. I
know. I dunno why. I mean,

497
00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:20,210
it's not like you're gonna save your
place in there. That's very strange.

498
00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:21,330
So that's the weird ones there.

499
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:26,050
The least favorite one that we have
at our library is toilet paper.

500
00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:29,290
Uh, so then, you know, it's.

501
00:26:29,290 --> 00:26:31,170
Like, we know where you were. Yeah.

502
00:26:31,170 --> 00:26:34,490
Yeah. That's there was a whole Seinfeld
episode about that. And I remember.

503
00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:37,050
Yeah, we don't, we don't like that one.
That's the one where we start making,

504
00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:37,730
like, you know,

505
00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:40,570
if you walk by the front desk and you
hear a library and making a fake vomit

506
00:26:40,570 --> 00:26:45,400
noise, that's why we're
doing it. And we're probably,

507
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,040
we're probably mocking
you too more than likely.

508
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,960
We are just gonna throw that out there.

509
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Let's break for a moment and go to our
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510
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,520
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511
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512
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513
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514
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515
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516
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517
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518
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519
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520
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521
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522
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523
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524
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she's confined to the farm where she's
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525
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526
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527
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528
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529
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530
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531
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533
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534
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535
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or go to Laura haven.com/podcast sponsors.

536
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:16,160
Well, I love that there is a fandom for
librarians, this UNS, shelved comics.

537
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,960
It's like the Dilbert of like it.

538
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,000
Is really is. And see,

539
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,800
I really associated with it
because I am still the only

540
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,760
male employee in our library
system in this comic Dewey.

541
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:30,600
You know, of course, it's
little on the nose there,

542
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,320
but Dewey is the male librarian.

543
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,360
He's the only guy who works in the library
except for the library of mascot who

544
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:40,720
never takes off his costume. We don't
have one of those <laugh> but that's he's.

545
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,160
Yeah. <laugh> but anyway, he's
and he's like the star wars fan.

546
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,080
There's a great strip in there that I
keep threatening my coworker, my staff,

547
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,560
now that I'm gonna do someday, if
we don't have enough people on,

548
00:28:51,130 --> 00:28:56,000
he had skipped out on a staff
meeting required one by being

549
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,480
sick at home. Well,

550
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,800
the joke turned out to be that everyone
who came there had a meal together and

551
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,960
they all got food boys. So the next day
he shows up and he's the only one there,

552
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,480
cause everybody's out with food
poisoning. And normally in that situation,

553
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,800
you would just close the library
and put a sign up and say, sorry,

554
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,640
health emergency, you know, thing
like that. But this being a comic,

555
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,800
they played it as he had to run
the library all day by himself.

556
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:21,370
So he goes out the front door where
all the people are waiting and says,

557
00:29:21,370 --> 00:29:23,810
thank you for the way. You know,
we've had a, a bit of an emergency.

558
00:29:23,810 --> 00:29:26,290
We're gonna do our best to serve
today. But before anyone comes in,

559
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:27,970
I just want ask this question,

560
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:32,610
who was the captain of the
Firefly class serenity?

561
00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:35,410
And this guy in the back goes
Malcolm Reynolds. And he's like,

562
00:29:35,410 --> 00:29:38,370
you're the first one, the,

563
00:29:38,370 --> 00:29:43,280
of the strip asking scifi
fandom questions to determine

564
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,120
who the next person to
use the library was.

565
00:29:45,380 --> 00:29:49,440
And he was taking them one at a time
<laugh>. And so the boss is the next day,

566
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,000
the boss doesn't know any
of this. And she's like, oh,

567
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,920
it's really great that you did
this. And he's like, well, you know,

568
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,800
it was rough, but we made it
work. He's like, I she's like,

569
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,480
I really appreciate it. But then she's
reading the comment card and she's like,

570
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,280
why does this one say, well,
worth the weight? He's like, oh,

571
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,160
I gotta go check the.

572
00:30:02,260 --> 00:30:03,050
<Laugh>.

573
00:30:03,050 --> 00:30:06,140
Just so, so I keep threatening. I
gonna do that someday. I'd be like,

574
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,500
you have to answer next generation
questions before you cover the door.

575
00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:11,500
We'd have like three people.

576
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:15,300
We're gonna have to link to this in
the show notes. That's a fantastic, uh,

577
00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:17,460
yeah. Fandom like within a fandom.

578
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:18,293
There it is really.

579
00:30:18,670 --> 00:30:21,820
So we've already set up chapter
two of this discussion. Uh, Steve,

580
00:30:21,820 --> 00:30:24,820
you've been talking about the general
benefits of the public library and some of

581
00:30:24,820 --> 00:30:26,900
the insanity that you've
found at your public library,

582
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:30,420
helping direct your public
library. How do you personally,

583
00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:33,100
Steve help share great books
at the library you direct,

584
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:36,620
and I guess we'll start with how you
got into this field in the first place

585
00:30:36,620 --> 00:30:40,580
because you and I both been in the past
in local journalism mm-hmm <affirmative>

586
00:30:40,780 --> 00:30:44,180
uh, but you moved from
that into, uh, being a,

587
00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:47,500
an employee at the public library and now
director there in the Buffalo Wyoming.

588
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:48,593
Yep.

589
00:30:48,910 --> 00:30:52,530
So I got fired and that's the,

590
00:30:52,530 --> 00:30:54,610
that's the short version
<laugh> yeah. And went, hunting,

591
00:30:54,610 --> 00:30:58,410
went hunting for a job and you know,
the jobs at the time were like,

592
00:30:58,410 --> 00:31:01,690
you could go work in the oil field to
make a lot of money or you could work in

593
00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:05,690
fast food or grocery store and
make not very much money. And both,

594
00:31:05,690 --> 00:31:08,250
those were kind of terrible and both.

595
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:09,353
Breezy too.

596
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,090
I fell in. Yeah. Right.
I fell into this, um,

597
00:31:12,210 --> 00:31:16,650
small mom and pop print store print shop
where I learned like some of the old

598
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,530
offset press mechanical, electrical
presses and stuff like that,

599
00:31:20,530 --> 00:31:25,130
but also did stuff with, uh, InDesign
and Corll draw and that kind of thing.

600
00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:28,970
And that was for like a few months,
but at the same time, a, uh,

601
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:33,610
part-time position opened up at the
library and I'd volunteered at a small

602
00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:37,890
community library back in Maine when
I was still newspaper reporting. Um,

603
00:31:37,890 --> 00:31:40,890
so I had a little bit of that and I was
like, that would be kind of interesting.

604
00:31:40,890 --> 00:31:43,450
It'd be fun. I mean, it's
not gonna pay a real well,

605
00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:45,690
but it could be a good end
to get started on stuff.

606
00:31:45,690 --> 00:31:50,530
Little did I know <laugh> 15 years, 14
years later, whatever it's been. Um,

607
00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:54,470
so I went and did the
interview and at some point,

608
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:57,710
either right before the interview or
after the director came back and said,

609
00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:58,390
oh yeah, by the way,

610
00:31:58,390 --> 00:32:01,590
this is now a full-time position with
benefits and everything like that.

611
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:04,110
I'm like, well, super, um,

612
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:07,070
and the journalism thing actually
helped because they saw that,

613
00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:10,470
knew that about me, just from my
brief stint at the paper here in town.

614
00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:12,750
And they were like, well, uh,

615
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,270
we had a newsletter years ago and we
dropped it because the newspaper used to

616
00:32:17,270 --> 00:32:20,030
have a column where they'd have like
library news. But then of course,

617
00:32:20,030 --> 00:32:23,230
as the newspaper got smaller
and squeezed more things out,

618
00:32:23,230 --> 00:32:26,910
that was one of the first things
to go. So they were going well,

619
00:32:26,910 --> 00:32:30,630
we'd really like you to restart
our newsletter. And so sure.

620
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:33,310
I don't know anything about that,
but I'll try it. Why not? Um,

621
00:32:33,310 --> 00:32:37,150
which is usually what I wind up doing
with everything. So that's, that's how I,

622
00:32:37,650 --> 00:32:39,560
how I write too. Um,

623
00:32:39,650 --> 00:32:43,920
so I got into that and eventually that
part of the career became doing the

624
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,320
technical services aspect,

625
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,200
which is actually processing and
linking the books to get them into the

626
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,640
electronic system so they can
be checked out by everybody. Um,

627
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:54,450
and then a few years ago,

628
00:32:54,660 --> 00:32:59,450
my boss was ready to retire and she
encouraged me to apply for her job.

629
00:32:59,820 --> 00:33:01,090
So I did. And I got it.

630
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,710
So now fantastic. How long you been
doing that now? Public library director.

631
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,600
Three years as of July 1st,
so three years in change.

632
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:13,920
Okay. Okay. And what exactly
does that job entail?

633
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,400
Like you've already mentioned,
uh, finding, uh, you know,

634
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,160
pieces of toilet paper in the CD or
the cigarette, the butts of the CDs,

635
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,480
but like, what are some of the
benefits of, of, of the job?

636
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,720
Like what do you get to do sharing
stories with readers? Well.

637
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,120
Yeah, as the, you know, as the director,

638
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,790
one of my primary roles is to oversee
the book selection for the library,

639
00:33:33,790 --> 00:33:36,110
what books we actually wind
up ordering and paying for.

640
00:33:36,450 --> 00:33:40,590
And also if books are donated, deciding
whether we're gonna put those in or not,

641
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:41,540
um,

642
00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:46,430
I give a lot of freedom to just because
we've done this in the past and we've

643
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:48,710
come to trust their judgment.
You know, our different children,

644
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,590
we have a teen librarian and a children's
librarian and they select their books

645
00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:55,470
and order 'em. So I don't
vet every single one,

646
00:33:55,490 --> 00:33:58,990
but I know enough of their judgment and
we have enough conversations that I'm

647
00:33:58,990 --> 00:34:01,510
confident in what they select
for us to have in the library,

648
00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:04,390
myself and my assistant director,

649
00:34:04,390 --> 00:34:08,110
who has been our longtime front desk
circulation person. We do the bulk of,

650
00:34:08,110 --> 00:34:11,070
we do all of the ordering for adults, uh,

651
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,150
fiction and nonfiction there.

652
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,470
So really part of the job is I get
these book catalogs and review catalogs,

653
00:34:17,470 --> 00:34:21,230
and I read through 'em and find
cool books that I wanna put in, um,

654
00:34:21,230 --> 00:34:24,430
keeping in mind, primarily,
not just what I wanna see,

655
00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:29,110
but I know this author gets a lot of
readers. I need to get the next book.

656
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:30,390
Um,

657
00:34:30,390 --> 00:34:34,910
whether it's a popular series or whether
it's somebody who releases a standalone

658
00:34:34,910 --> 00:34:37,150
once every two or three
years, but every time they do,

659
00:34:37,150 --> 00:34:39,310
there's a big draw of
readers. I'm like, okay,

660
00:34:39,310 --> 00:34:41,750
I know I gotta get that one
because the last time we did,

661
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:45,070
we had X amount of people who read it. Um,

662
00:34:45,070 --> 00:34:49,820
so that's a good in heavy
influence on things. Um, and again,

663
00:34:49,820 --> 00:34:54,300
like I said, when people donate books,
then my job is to just kind of see, okay,

664
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:54,780
first of all,

665
00:34:54,780 --> 00:34:59,260
is the physical condition good enough to
have here in the building is especially

666
00:34:59,260 --> 00:35:02,700
if it's an older book or
used one and then, okay,

667
00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:07,220
is this gonna check out? You know,
if I look at it and it's like, eh,

668
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:09,980
we don't hardly ever get anybody
checking out this kind of book,

669
00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:11,340
I'll probably just put
it in the book sale,

670
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,420
but if it's on a topic or if
it's by an author or similar to

671
00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:19,820
an author that we've had a lot of
popularity with, for example, if it's a,

672
00:35:19,820 --> 00:35:23,740
like certain kind of cozy mystery
or whatever, and it's like, oh,

673
00:35:23,740 --> 00:35:26,540
we've had a lot of those checking out
lately. This is a different author.

674
00:35:26,540 --> 00:35:29,180
We don't have, let's give it a
try. So we'll put it in, just see.

675
00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:31,060
And some of it is really experimentation.

676
00:35:31,060 --> 00:35:35,060
I don't think a lot of people realize
that like sometimes when librarians pick

677
00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:37,640
books, especially if it's a
new book by an unknown author,

678
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,320
we're really just gambling.

679
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,280
Cause like we have no idea whether our
local readers are gonna like it or not,

680
00:35:43,620 --> 00:35:46,280
but we do have the experience
again, of similar books.

681
00:35:46,610 --> 00:35:50,680
So that's all we can really base it on.
I mean, we can go on reviews somewhat,

682
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:51,400
but sometimes, you know,

683
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,980
a book is well reviewed and we put on
the shelf and it just sits there other

684
00:35:54,980 --> 00:35:58,300
times a book hardly has any reviews and
we put it on there and it starts flying

685
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:01,940
off the shelf. So it's
some of it you think,

686
00:36:01,940 --> 00:36:05,380
you know how you're figuring it out
and other times you're just like, uh,

687
00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:10,260
I dunno, you know? Yeah. So, uh, that's,
that's the highlight of that? I mean,

688
00:36:10,260 --> 00:36:14,850
I also do budgeting stuff
and general payroll,

689
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:20,550
um, some light janitorial
work cause it's small library,

690
00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:25,630
changing light bulbs, unclog and
toilets, things like that, you know? Yep.

691
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,430
Getting bandaids for people who
injure themselves, usually kids.

692
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:32,150
Paper cut, uh, emergencies. Yeah.

693
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:33,910
<Laugh> not too many of those.

694
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:34,830
<Laugh>.

695
00:36:34,830 --> 00:36:35,710
Fortunately.

696
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,470
So you're kind of the curator then is
what it sounds like. How do you handle,

697
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,950
um, when requests come in for new
books that maybe you've never heard of,

698
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:49,350
is there like a threshold of certain
number of requests or frequency of

699
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,710
someone requesting things? Like
how do you kind of screen that?

700
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,430
So we don't have any sort
of written threshold.

701
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:58,910
We have guidance in our policies for, um,

702
00:36:59,460 --> 00:37:00,950
collection management,

703
00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:04,070
which is several pages long
and has all sorts of criteria.

704
00:37:04,090 --> 00:37:08,750
But in terms of books, when somebody
says, I'd like to have this book to read,

705
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:12,630
the first thing we try to do is we have
an inner library loan system with all

706
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:13,830
the rest of the libraries in Wyoming.

707
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,510
So we can request it
and have them read it.

708
00:37:16,510 --> 00:37:18,510
Especially if it's
something like really niche,

709
00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:22,990
like a non-fiction book on some obscure
topic, we're probably not gonna buy it.

710
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:27,310
Unless again, we know that other people
have been reading similar topics and go,

711
00:37:27,310 --> 00:37:28,870
ah, such and such might be, you know,

712
00:37:28,910 --> 00:37:31,910
we're small enough that we can come up
with like five names and be like, oh,

713
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:34,550
this guy and her and this other
kid, they might like this book.

714
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:38,110
So we should get it.
Um, with fiction though,

715
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:43,080
I I'm pretty, I dunno if libertarian
is the right word for it.

716
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,040
Maybe pretty libertarian about books when
people request. And if somebody says,

717
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,000
I wanna read this book, can you
please buy it for your collection?

718
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,950
And it's newer. That means if it's newer,

719
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:54,910
it's harder for us to borrow
it from another library.

720
00:37:54,910 --> 00:37:56,950
Because with the inner
library loan system,

721
00:37:57,340 --> 00:38:01,230
they usually informally
restricted to when it's three,

722
00:38:01,230 --> 00:38:05,230
four months old or so they won't send
it to you because they're leaving it for

723
00:38:05,230 --> 00:38:09,230
their local area, their
county to have it first. Um,

724
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,270
so a lot of times when it is a new
book, I'll just be like, you know what,

725
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:15,790
to me, that's at least one
guaranteed circulation.

726
00:38:16,170 --> 00:38:20,070
And most times it is in a similar genre
to something I know somebody else is

727
00:38:20,070 --> 00:38:23,870
reading anyway. So I figure it's
worth the gamble to buy it, put it in.

728
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:25,990
And I know at least one
person's gonna check it out.

729
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,270
So then that might go to somebody
else, checking it out as well.

730
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,910
So I'm usually willing to make
that bet. But in terms of,

731
00:38:35,140 --> 00:38:35,500
you know,

732
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:40,420
we don't have a limit on we'll only take
X amount of suggestions or donations

733
00:38:40,420 --> 00:38:43,820
this year. Sometimes we just
won't because of money reasons.

734
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,020
And again, others,

735
00:38:46,110 --> 00:38:49,580
it might just be that it might be too
obscure of a book and we don't think

736
00:38:49,580 --> 00:38:52,620
anybody else is gonna check it out. So
it's kind of a judgment call that way.

737
00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:55,820
It's, it's pretty fluid is
the best way to describe it.

738
00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:56,500
Steve,

739
00:38:56,500 --> 00:39:00,220
I think it's helpful to remember that
there are human beings who want to serve

740
00:39:00,220 --> 00:39:03,540
their audiences working in
the public library system.

741
00:39:03,540 --> 00:39:06,660
And I think that that's
important mainly because, uh,

742
00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:10,140
as you may have known at least among
some news outlets and pun trees,

743
00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:13,420
there's been some negative press
given to particular libraries.

744
00:39:13,420 --> 00:39:16,740
And I think that that
gets turned wrongfully.

745
00:39:16,740 --> 00:39:21,420
So into this view of the
public libraries altogether are

746
00:39:21,420 --> 00:39:22,340
bad, or, you know,

747
00:39:22,340 --> 00:39:25,340
you gotta keep your kids out of there
and find the Christian alternative or

748
00:39:25,340 --> 00:39:25,760
something.

749
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,860
And there may be some like
larger libraries or libraries
in particular regions

750
00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:33,300
of the country where they may have a
particular event that you don't wanna take

751
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:35,380
your kids to, and that maybe
doesn't belong in the library,

752
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,740
but that's no tarnish of the entire
concept of library or every single

753
00:39:40,740 --> 00:39:41,280
library.

754
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,540
And that's why I appreciate the balance
of recognizing that there is still

755
00:39:45,540 --> 00:39:48,220
common grace in this idea,
that reading is still good.

756
00:39:48,220 --> 00:39:52,260
That community reading is still good.
And that there are folks like yourself,

757
00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:53,220
uh, your employees,

758
00:39:53,220 --> 00:39:58,020
and many other libraries where the folks
are just really genuinely trying to

759
00:39:58,020 --> 00:40:02,420
serve the community. Uh, my wife grew
up in a small town where she was,

760
00:40:02,420 --> 00:40:04,460
you know, oldest child
of a homeschool family.

761
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,380
And the public library was
where they got their books.

762
00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:10,140
They would just all go in there. They
would walk out with stacks of books,

763
00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:14,380
the librarians love them and lay, they
loved them back. And I think to this day,

764
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:18,860
there's a public library out there in
west Texas with a reading room named after

765
00:40:18,860 --> 00:40:20,420
my wife's dad, uh,

766
00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:24,700
nice who died tragically in the late
nineties and was a beloved member of the

767
00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:27,660
community. And you, you find just this,

768
00:40:27,660 --> 00:40:32,380
this common space that to me represents
what we are supposed to do as human

769
00:40:32,380 --> 00:40:34,940
beings created by God, a few episodes ago,

770
00:40:34,940 --> 00:40:37,940
Zach and I were talking about the movie
theaters and the common grace and the

771
00:40:37,940 --> 00:40:42,540
idea of showing up in a public space
to enjoy visual storytelling together.

772
00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:45,540
Well, the library is just the
book version of that. Yeah,

773
00:40:45,540 --> 00:40:49,580
it's even better if you're reading books
together, you know, even, uh, finding,

774
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:50,100
you know,

775
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:54,260
little relics left over by the previous
reader as a little bit of a human

776
00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:56,380
connection there, you know,
there is cause human beings,

777
00:40:56,380 --> 00:41:00,260
can you be kind of gross and weird and
just so long as you're not, you know,

778
00:41:00,260 --> 00:41:04,100
putting pollution in the book or marking
up the margins or anything like that,

779
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:08,620
uh, then you still know, Hey, this
book was enjoyed by someone else. Uh,

780
00:41:08,620 --> 00:41:10,380
I'm reading what someone else has read.

781
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:14,220
Like there's a fandom out there
even if I've not met them. Uh,

782
00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:18,020
but then there's also other ways that
libraries promote this kind of community

783
00:41:18,020 --> 00:41:21,300
reading. Uh, how does that work, uh,
at the Buffalo library where you are.

784
00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:22,660
Well, you know,

785
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:27,610
we try to put out different kinds of
books on display, of course. And you know,

786
00:41:27,610 --> 00:41:30,810
this is where a lot of libraries have
run into some troubles because the books

787
00:41:30,810 --> 00:41:34,680
they select put on display, basically,
no matter what the topic is,

788
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,760
somebody else doesn't like it without
getting too specific on things.

789
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,880
And we all know where that is, but it's,

790
00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:45,830
I think people sometimes mistake
the idea that because libraries

791
00:41:45,830 --> 00:41:50,790
are putting out books on display means
it's not necessarily that we like them.

792
00:41:51,370 --> 00:41:55,980
Like we really try hard
to divest our personal

793
00:41:55,980 --> 00:41:59,460
opinions on books from
the books that we have,

794
00:41:59,460 --> 00:42:02,500
or the books that we put out on
display. For example, you know,

795
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:05,100
we've gotta display out this week
that my assistant director did.

796
00:42:05,210 --> 00:42:08,820
That's all on things that are related
to, because it's labor day weekend,

797
00:42:09,110 --> 00:42:12,940
we put out books that are related to like
the labor movement in general over the

798
00:42:12,940 --> 00:42:15,500
years. And so we probably
got like, you know, 16,

799
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:19,380
20 books that are out on this table
with some American flag decorations and

800
00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:22,140
things like that, you know, to
draw people's attention to it. And.

801
00:42:22,140 --> 00:42:24,580
Just the union story
and all that. And union.

802
00:42:24,580 --> 00:42:26,220
Story, the history of it, you know,

803
00:42:26,220 --> 00:42:30,590
maybe some fiction books that revolve
around unions and things that happen with

804
00:42:30,750 --> 00:42:31,290
'em, things like that.

805
00:42:31,290 --> 00:42:35,650
But it's not like we're passing a
judgment call when we put that out in

806
00:42:35,650 --> 00:42:39,210
particular on, we think unions are
good, bad, and different, whatever.

807
00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:43,530
It's like, this is what we have about
'em here. It is read it. If you want to,

808
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,410
you're not obligated to read
it. If you don't like it,

809
00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:49,210
you can kind of roll your
eyes and keep moving on. Um,

810
00:42:49,220 --> 00:42:54,170
so we're always trying to emphasize
that we've got our books out there

811
00:42:54,930 --> 00:42:56,150
for the public to read,

812
00:42:56,150 --> 00:43:00,690
and we're trying to provide
things for all segments of the

813
00:43:00,690 --> 00:43:01,730
population to read,

814
00:43:01,730 --> 00:43:05,210
because we don't know how many
people in our community who have,

815
00:43:06,310 --> 00:43:09,210
you know, like what percentage or
of what mindset or things like that.

816
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:10,490
You really have no idea,

817
00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:13,370
no matter what voting roles
tell you and things like that.

818
00:43:13,710 --> 00:43:16,010
And it's not our job to
try to figure that out.

819
00:43:16,010 --> 00:43:20,010
Our job is mostly to get the books that
we think people are gonna like to read.

820
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,130
They check 'em out and read them.
They hopefully bring 'em back to us.

821
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:27,090
That's the part we always have
to work on <laugh> so, yeah,

822
00:43:27,090 --> 00:43:31,770
it's really this shared kind of community
sense of we're we're in the community

823
00:43:31,770 --> 00:43:32,530
and we're part of it.

824
00:43:32,530 --> 00:43:37,350
And we're trying to get you what you
want to read so that you can have this

825
00:43:37,350 --> 00:43:40,230
experience of coming in and finding
the thing you're looking for without,

826
00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:41,590
and in most cases, you know,

827
00:43:42,190 --> 00:43:46,350
emphasizing a little bit that you wouldn't
have to go to the extra expense of

828
00:43:46,540 --> 00:43:49,590
buying all these books you wanna
read. That's something, we,

829
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,230
we talk about a lot too with the public.

830
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,910
It occurs to me that, uh,
Christian, if you're trying to, uh,

831
00:43:54,910 --> 00:43:59,270
read up on the opposition of public
library would be the best place.

832
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,510
If they already have the
book to, uh, read the book,

833
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,470
to know what's in it to understand
what someone else who's different from,

834
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:10,350
you believes without actually
paying for the book. So boycotters,

835
00:44:10,350 --> 00:44:11,183
here's your chance.

836
00:44:11,350 --> 00:44:12,350
Right? Use the.

837
00:44:12,350 --> 00:44:12,650
Public.

838
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:14,630
Use the public library boycots come on.

839
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:16,910
Yes, exactly. Now you're
not paying the author. Uh,

840
00:44:16,910 --> 00:44:19,910
you've not given them the clicks. Uh,
you've not, uh, given them the extra,

841
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:20,743
the extra, there you go.

842
00:44:21,310 --> 00:44:23,080
Yeah. It's a good idea because there's,

843
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,080
there's a number of books that have been
popular the last few years that I just

844
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,920
have no interest in reading.
And yet, uh, I mean,

845
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,600
I've read tons of book reviews
about some of these books.

846
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,400
I'm not gonna go into all that, but,
but then I thought, well, at some point,

847
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,120
maybe I actually should read the
book just to kind of hear the,

848
00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:43,800
the author in his own voice or her own
voice, uh, make whatever point it is.

849
00:44:44,310 --> 00:44:46,730
But yes, I, I don't want
to own these books. I,

850
00:44:46,730 --> 00:44:50,170
I don't even wanna Kindle
own the books, but, uh,

851
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:52,690
but it would be nice to, um, yeah,

852
00:44:53,090 --> 00:44:55,450
actually get a copy and
a library's a good way,

853
00:44:55,450 --> 00:44:58,690
but I've even thought about this
for, uh, a bunch of, no, there's, uh,

854
00:44:58,690 --> 00:45:00,890
a number of novels that I
have, like on my, you know,

855
00:45:00,890 --> 00:45:03,330
Amazon wishlist where I'm like, okay,

856
00:45:03,330 --> 00:45:05,090
I don't know if I'm actually
gonna like this book.

857
00:45:05,090 --> 00:45:07,450
I don't know if I wanna
spend 10 or $20 on it.

858
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,730
I probably should put this on my
library, you know, checklist or wishlist,

859
00:45:11,780 --> 00:45:16,690
because, uh, if this book is kind
of a let down, if it bombs, like,

860
00:45:16,690 --> 00:45:19,450
I, I just don't want it taking
up space on my shelf. I usually,

861
00:45:19,830 --> 00:45:23,090
for the most part, I reserve
bookshelf space for books.

862
00:45:23,090 --> 00:45:27,810
I know I want to keep, or that
I know I'm gonna want to read,

863
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:31,450
you know, multiple times or that yeah,
I'm gonna want my kids to read. Or,

864
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:35,090
and so I, I think that's very
much a good use for the library.

865
00:45:35,830 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaking of science fiction,

866
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,840
let's jump over to our third
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867
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,320
bit of a robotic sponsor here.
It is the novel lost bits,

868
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,880
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869
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,200
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870
00:45:51,740 --> 00:45:55,680
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871
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872
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873
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,800
his only thought is to
reunite with his family.

874
00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:07,640
This world is not his own though.
It's a wasteland of Des buildings,

875
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:12,120
flying metal discs and monstrosities
that keep themselves active by stealing

876
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,240
another bot's power. How
did the world get this way?

877
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:20,120
And why was he discarded hampered by
imperfect memory and obsolete body and

878
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,960
limited battery life 4 0 4 sets out to
find his home joined by other castaways.

879
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,920
He faces off against
scavengers and monsters only
to encounter greater threats,

880
00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:32,400
pursued outsmarted, and
manipulated on every side,

881
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,280
4 0 4 teeters on the brink of
annihilation. His only choice of survival,

882
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,080
those bits of himself, the
connections he hasn't lost,

883
00:46:40,610 --> 00:46:42,040
we reviewed lost bits.

884
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,040
And we said that it boldly leads
fans out of dead wastelands,

885
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,560
exploring the nature of humankind
through the lenses of a human creation.

886
00:46:48,670 --> 00:46:52,160
That's an excerpt from our fuller lo
Haven review will put those links in the

887
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,600
show notes as well as
purchase links for lost bits,

888
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,640
which I understand is also coming
out in audiobook pretty soon.

889
00:46:57,710 --> 00:47:01,200
Just go to the show notes for
episode 128 or go to the top of

890
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,960
thePage@laurahaven.com
slash podcast sponsors.

891
00:47:04,450 --> 00:47:06,040
So here's a question though that I, I,

892
00:47:06,130 --> 00:47:08,720
it might be going through
our listeners mine right now.

893
00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:13,240
You mentioned kind of different books
that get promoted or kind of spotlighted

894
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:15,680
during different seasons of the year. Um,

895
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,560
is there ever a chance for like Christian
books, whether fiction or nonfiction,

896
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:23,320
you know, depending on the
season, uh, to get the spotlight?

897
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:26,720
Well, I think it really
depends on the library.

898
00:47:27,220 --> 00:47:30,310
And so here's the thing, when it come,

899
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:33,630
we've come up with guess a little
bit ourselves, because, you know,

900
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,230
as a library in a conservative
state, in a rural area,

901
00:47:36,310 --> 00:47:41,270
we've had complaints about some of the
books and the thing we always lean on is,

902
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:42,103
you know,

903
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:47,540
it's a bit ironic because some of
the argument comes from the it's

904
00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:50,700
less of the, I don't want my
kid to read this, or it's the,

905
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:54,620
I don't want anyone to read this. Yes.
And so it's like, okay, well, look,

906
00:47:54,620 --> 00:47:57,860
you know, I can
commiserate from a personal

907
00:47:59,410 --> 00:48:03,520
position as to how you're
feeling about that. But I, again,

908
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,600
when it comes to reading
books, I'm pretty libertarian.

909
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,800
And I think anybody should be able
to read any book they want to.

910
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,760
And so when you come to a library,
a library position like that,

911
00:48:12,750 --> 00:48:15,280
when we have people who
are complaining about,

912
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,280
I don't think you should have a book with
X kind of thing, and it it's too bad,

913
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,680
you don't have more books that have
say a Christian perspective like that.

914
00:48:22,890 --> 00:48:26,440
My response always then is
I try to put some in there,

915
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,960
but also I don't know about all of 'em.
So I need you to suggest them to me.

916
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,280
And this is something we try to
build too, with the community of,

917
00:48:33,470 --> 00:48:36,600
I understand you don't like
this particular kind of
book, probably it's not for,

918
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,000
you might be for somebody else, but
if you have a book that you like,

919
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,200
that is from a Christian perspective,

920
00:48:41,470 --> 00:48:45,240
I would like to know about it so that I
can put it in because I'm hearing from

921
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,400
them that they know people who
would wanna read it. And for me,

922
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,600
just from a cold, hard
facts, point of view,

923
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,600
that's more circulation
numbers for my library.

924
00:48:54,490 --> 00:48:59,380
So the trick is that we try

925
00:48:59,380 --> 00:49:04,220
not to do displays necessarily of specific

926
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,300
ideological or religious
or spiritual events.

927
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:13,260
So for example, it's kind of hard
for me to do a display and say like,

928
00:49:13,260 --> 00:49:15,420
these are the clean reads necessarily.

929
00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:18,740
Now we make up lists for
parents and kids and say,

930
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:23,780
if you're a kid and your family has a
set of values where you want to avoid

931
00:49:23,780 --> 00:49:26,900
some of the things that are showing
up, especially in teen books lately,

932
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,850
here's some suggested areas.
We can look, come ask us.

933
00:49:30,850 --> 00:49:32,850
We've got some really good
suggested ones for you,

934
00:49:32,890 --> 00:49:37,650
but I can't really set aside an area
that's like just the clean reads versus

935
00:49:37,650 --> 00:49:41,490
the not clean reads. Mm-hmm <affirmative>
um, now as for setting up displays,

936
00:49:41,490 --> 00:49:43,490
you know, I've never actually
thought about that before,

937
00:49:43,490 --> 00:49:48,300
because most of our displays tend to
be pretty. What's the word agnostic,

938
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:51,900
I guess you could say, like
the only real display, uh,

939
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:54,220
I think that has any, uh,

940
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:59,150
real specific political
or cultural bent that we

941
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,950
do is we'd usually do a display
during black history month.

942
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,610
That's the only one I can think of
the rest of them are pretty, you know,

943
00:50:05,610 --> 00:50:08,370
like at Christmas time we have
Christmas books out at Thanksgiving,

944
00:50:08,370 --> 00:50:10,450
we have Thanksgiving books
out labor day, you know,

945
00:50:10,450 --> 00:50:12,210
we did the labor day display. Yeah. Um,

946
00:50:12,210 --> 00:50:13,930
a few weeks ago when we had our primaries,

947
00:50:14,140 --> 00:50:18,210
we did a display about elections
and like anything about elections,

948
00:50:18,210 --> 00:50:22,770
even like bare bones, kind of
didactic history books to, uh,

949
00:50:22,930 --> 00:50:27,100
fictional, uh, movies that involve
elections and things like that. So,

950
00:50:27,790 --> 00:50:31,780
so I hope that answers your question a
little bit. It's not like we can't do it,

951
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,620
but like with most
everything else in life,

952
00:50:34,620 --> 00:50:39,340
when you bring religion and faith
into it, it gets a lot messier.

953
00:50:39,470 --> 00:50:39,820
Oh.

954
00:50:39,820 --> 00:50:44,380
Sure. And I'm of the I'm of the opinion
that libraries should try to be as

955
00:50:44,860 --> 00:50:48,350
agnostic as they possibly can.
Mm-hmm <affirmative> now, again,

956
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:51,040
having a display that's like, you know,

957
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,120
talking about elections because elections
are important and vital to the running

958
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,480
of the country. That's something you
could take a stand on and, you know,

959
00:50:57,700 --> 00:50:58,880
put it out there like that.

960
00:50:59,230 --> 00:51:03,520
I also think some of it has to be reading
your audience a little bit because

961
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,040
while I won't avoid a book because
of content, I might not get it.

962
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:09,520
If I don't think anybody's gonna read it.

963
00:51:09,650 --> 00:51:10,150
Mm.

964
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:13,680
Yeah. And that's, again, part of our
judgment call process of, you know,

965
00:51:13,930 --> 00:51:16,400
if I've heard a lot of people
in the community grumbling,

966
00:51:16,780 --> 00:51:20,840
and let's say we have a book with a
similar topic that never gets checked out,

967
00:51:21,140 --> 00:51:24,160
and then that author writes a new
book. That's raised some controversy.

968
00:51:24,380 --> 00:51:27,000
I'm probably not gonna get it just
because the other book hasn't checked out.

969
00:51:27,550 --> 00:51:31,620
I mean, it's not, I really
try to be as just cold,

970
00:51:31,620 --> 00:51:34,380
hard factual as I can
yeah. About that stuff.

971
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:37,860
So it's not seen as taking
sides one way or the other.

972
00:51:37,930 --> 00:51:41,180
Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm totally
with you here about there.

973
00:51:41,180 --> 00:51:42,500
There's a vast difference between,

974
00:51:42,570 --> 00:51:47,340
I don't want to see here or read this
to no one should be able to say or

975
00:51:47,340 --> 00:51:52,300
write this, you know, topic. I don't
agree with that ideology or that,

976
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:55,980
that mindset either because it
can always be used against you.

977
00:51:56,850 --> 00:51:59,780
It's like creating a monster
and then losing control of it.

978
00:51:59,780 --> 00:52:04,140
And then it turning on you and devouring
you. I think that's just never a good,

979
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,740
you know, mindset to have. But at the
same time, I, I think what distresses,

980
00:52:08,780 --> 00:52:12,300
a lot of Christians now is like, when I
go, and this is more a bookstore thing,

981
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,500
but like there, there's a very
popular bookstore in town where, um,

982
00:52:15,570 --> 00:52:20,300
during June it, the entire front
of the store was pride month Uhhuh.

983
00:52:20,310 --> 00:52:23,420
Um, during October, the entire
front of the store was witchcraft.

984
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:26,820
And not like cutey little
Halloween stories, but it's like,

985
00:52:27,010 --> 00:52:30,860
here is how does summon demons like
how two books? And it's just like the.

986
00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:32,100
Thing they said Harry Potter was.

987
00:52:32,290 --> 00:52:33,123
Yeah.

988
00:52:33,180 --> 00:52:36,340
Actually, right. Actually this is
the actual yeah. Uhhuh. Well, then.

989
00:52:36,340 --> 00:52:39,340
That is that's religious. That
is literally an endorsement of a,

990
00:52:39,340 --> 00:52:41,140
of AISM of religion. Right. Right.

991
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,660
Now, see if that was me and it, we,

992
00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:47,260
we were working in a library and it wasn't
me in charge and we had to display up

993
00:52:47,260 --> 00:52:50,260
about witchcraft. I'd be all like,
well, you've got one religion up.

994
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:54,470
Let's have let's them all. Yeah.
Let's have a display like Catholicism,

995
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:56,830
let's have one on Evangel
evangelical crazy.

996
00:52:57,580 --> 00:52:58,670
Easter and Christmas.

997
00:52:58,670 --> 00:52:59,190
Yeah.

998
00:52:59,190 --> 00:53:01,870
<Laugh>, it's gonna be, it's gonna
be nuts. So that's why, again,

999
00:53:01,870 --> 00:53:04,950
that's one of the reasons that we don't
do that because then you just open up

1000
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:06,550
this whole box full of everything.

1001
00:53:06,550 --> 00:53:10,190
You'd have to display to treat
it as fairly as you could.

1002
00:53:10,500 --> 00:53:10,990
Yeah.

1003
00:53:10,990 --> 00:53:14,190
Well, you mentioned too, Steve, the
practical considerations behind this.

1004
00:53:14,190 --> 00:53:16,990
I mean, you're not just there.
I mean, I'm sure that, uh,

1005
00:53:16,990 --> 00:53:20,750
even in a larger city or a, you know,
more liberal area or whatever, I mean,

1006
00:53:20,750 --> 00:53:24,150
there's lots of practical considerations.
There is this book, uh, circulating,

1007
00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:27,000
you know, what's our budget, uh,
what are the needs of the community,

1008
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,000
which books are getting borrowed
and which are not what's, uh,

1009
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,920
gathering cobwebs on the shelf. I mean,

1010
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,280
I'm sure that among some
librarians as anywhere,

1011
00:53:34,370 --> 00:53:38,840
there's some ideological crusading going
on and certainly the worst cases of

1012
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,960
those, uh, tend to rise to the
top and then they get in the news.

1013
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:45,720
But I think it helps Christians to steal
man this whole scenario and understand,

1014
00:53:46,130 --> 00:53:47,640
uh, the best points there,

1015
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,080
which are the ones you're articulating
is that there are practical

1016
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,040
considerations here. Right. And
among those is the, uh, you know,

1017
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,360
the snowball effect of,
well, if we put together,

1018
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,040
try to put together a list
or a display of clean reads,

1019
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,640
someone's still going
to object to that. And.

1020
00:54:00,820 --> 00:54:03,800
And by the same token, can somebody
come up to me and be like, okay,

1021
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,240
you've got clean reads. Why do you
not have a list of dirty reads, dirty.

1022
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:07,073
Reads? Yes.

1023
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,000
<Laugh> so, I mean, it sounds
funny. Yeah. But you could to,

1024
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,200
I could totally see it happening
and then I'd be like, okay,

1025
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,680
well I guess I gotta do some.

1026
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:15,320
Dirty reads, realistic books.

1027
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:16,840
Basically war.

1028
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:17,960
And some six. Yeah.

1029
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,480
Man. It's not the young people who
are reading 50 shades of gray. No,

1030
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:22,560
just gonna throw that out there.

1031
00:54:23,150 --> 00:54:26,840
That's uh, we ought have a whole
episode sometime. Like how,

1032
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,720
how did you deal with that whole thing
and what what's going on with that now?

1033
00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:30,400
That would be interesting.

1034
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,760
Okay. Well, I mean, just as a quick side
note, when 50 shades of Greg came out,

1035
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,240
we just treated it. I, I wasn't
in charge at the time, but the,

1036
00:54:37,610 --> 00:54:40,710
my director just treated as
another book, just, you know,

1037
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:43,270
just went out in the normal bookshelf
with all the rest of the books and

1038
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:45,350
everybody knew what it was. And it's like,

1039
00:54:45,730 --> 00:54:50,390
but that's kind of how a lot
of it gets treated. Yeah.

1040
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:51,470
Really is. You try to, I mean,

1041
00:54:51,470 --> 00:54:55,390
I know that the content of books
is changing a lot over the past,

1042
00:54:55,390 --> 00:54:59,550
especially the past 10, 20 years.
But the problem for libraries,

1043
00:54:59,550 --> 00:55:00,383
I think has been,

1044
00:55:00,460 --> 00:55:05,390
what role do we play in determining what
content other people get to see? Right.

1045
00:55:05,390 --> 00:55:08,870
Because in the past it wasn't a
problem because the publishers were,

1046
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:11,830
and I hate to use the word, but the
publishers were really self censoring,

1047
00:55:11,830 --> 00:55:15,950
themselves, self censoring, the
publishers aren't, they're kind of,

1048
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:17,590
it's like every, anything can go now.

1049
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,890
So the question then is how the library
fits into that. It's like, yeah,

1050
00:55:22,890 --> 00:55:25,810
you don't like that. This book has this
stuff in it, but we didn't write it.

1051
00:55:25,930 --> 00:55:26,810
We didn't publish it.

1052
00:55:26,810 --> 00:55:30,410
We're providing the access in
case somebody wants to read it.

1053
00:55:30,450 --> 00:55:31,970
Cause they might like the author,

1054
00:55:31,970 --> 00:55:34,410
or maybe it's a popular
publisher or something like that.

1055
00:55:34,550 --> 00:55:37,890
The fact that the content has
changed and be kind of dialed up.

1056
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,410
That's a thing it's like, well,

1057
00:55:39,410 --> 00:55:41,890
how much of that is the library's
responsibility to police?

1058
00:55:42,070 --> 00:55:45,530
And most libraries are gonna come back
with a, it's not our job to police it.

1059
00:55:45,780 --> 00:55:47,180
Right. It's a right.

1060
00:55:47,180 --> 00:55:51,420
It's out there and we're the content
provider to use a more modern yeah.

1061
00:55:51,420 --> 00:55:55,700
Term. Well, and, and there's a
difference between a library making, uh,

1062
00:55:55,770 --> 00:55:59,140
a library, providing access to these
books that are controversial or,

1063
00:55:59,140 --> 00:56:03,060
or whatever, versus a library that is
outwardly promoting them, you know,

1064
00:56:03,060 --> 00:56:06,500
and making it on in, in the spotlight
like this bookstore I went to.

1065
00:56:07,180 --> 00:56:10,520
But I think that the challenge here
for Christians is that we have to,

1066
00:56:10,740 --> 00:56:15,080
the only way to defeat bad ideas
is with better ideas. Yeah. The,

1067
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:19,200
the only way to displace bad
stories is with better stories.

1068
00:56:19,220 --> 00:56:22,760
And so it's really a
call for Christians and,

1069
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,930
and others to step up
and say, you know what?

1070
00:56:24,930 --> 00:56:26,690
I can't stop people reading this book.

1071
00:56:27,630 --> 00:56:31,770
I'm gonna write a book or promote a
book that is sort of the counter to this

1072
00:56:31,770 --> 00:56:36,480
and, and maybe a, a direct counter
or like more of a subtle counter.

1073
00:56:36,660 --> 00:56:39,720
And I, I think that this
is, uh, a lot more work.

1074
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:43,360
It's a lot harder <laugh> and I, I
think that's why the temptation is, oh,

1075
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,960
I just wanna get rid of
that book. And you know,

1076
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,000
it it's just not ever
gonna happen. I think,

1077
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,560
especially as we said at the beginning,

1078
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,200
we're in the internet age where people
don't even have to go to the library.

1079
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:52,840
Exactly.

1080
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,920
It's not like the library is the only
place people are going to access books

1081
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:57,960
that we don't, uh,

1082
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,640
prefer books that we don't like books
that we wish no one would write or read,

1083
00:57:02,220 --> 00:57:06,520
but we, you know, we have to sort of
step up and, and create the culture that,

1084
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,080
that we wanna see take shape.

1085
00:57:08,190 --> 00:57:11,880
Yeah. I think it goes back to actually
the theme of our last episode here on

1086
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,680
fantastical truth, 127,

1087
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,960
about a code of honor for Christian groups
that you'd need to follow the code of

1088
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,440
honor in the space that you're in,

1089
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:23,080
not necessarily the space
that you wish it would be. Uh,

1090
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:27,680
and that's why I think it is so
necessary for Christians, Christian fans,

1091
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,960
especially to pray for Christians who
are working in the public library, uh,

1092
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,520
trying to reflect common grace there,
if not the specific grace of the gospel,

1093
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,280
you're still reflecting the common
grace of, you know, curating books,

1094
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,400
finding the best ones, uh, running a
budget, uh, all of those sorts of things,

1095
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:45,880
managing employees, scrubbing the
toilets every once in a while,

1096
00:57:46,090 --> 00:57:48,360
pulling the toilet paper
out of they return books.

1097
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,400
All of that stuff is
part of the calling. Uh,

1098
00:57:51,490 --> 00:57:55,840
if you're looking for more specific
Christian books or what you'd call clean

1099
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,080
reads, I prefer the term wholesome, uh,

1100
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,200
because it's more substantive
than absence of content. Uh,

1101
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:01,920
if you're looking for those,

1102
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,840
then the location for that
a to be the church library,

1103
00:58:06,130 --> 00:58:11,000
if you can get one. Yeah. Uh, we
talked about that in episode 117 about,

1104
00:58:11,010 --> 00:58:13,000
uh, people, individuals, uh,

1105
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,400
needing to build a fantastic
lending library and possibly, uh,

1106
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,600
going to your church and being able to
do that, to serve your faith community.

1107
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,200
So there's a specific need there.
Uh, the code of honor, as it were,

1108
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:28,520
is a little bit different for a public
library, but Zach, you mentioned, uh,

1109
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:33,320
the need for more new stories,
uh, to help, uh, show, uh,

1110
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,680
more biblical truth or clean reads or
whatever you believe in the market,

1111
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,000
because this really starts
with reader demand. Uh,

1112
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,600
you can't just go to the
library and, you know,

1113
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,200
make all the demands of them
maybe necessarily once in a while.

1114
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,240
But if the readers want it, it's
gonna be an uphill struggle for you.

1115
00:58:46,380 --> 00:58:49,120
But that leads us then to chapter
three of our discussion, Steve,

1116
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:53,320
about your stories that you've been
making for quite some time now,

1117
00:58:53,390 --> 00:58:56,960
dozens of titles, and you can see
every last one of them in our link,

1118
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,120
in the show notes, what leads you,

1119
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,480
Steve Raza to create so many
fantastical story worlds, uh,

1120
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:07,160
starting with the face of the deep
series way back in the two thousands I've

1121
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,160
moving on from that universe
to many, many others.

1122
00:59:11,250 --> 00:59:13,320
Uh, you know, my brain just won't shut up.

1123
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,320
<Laugh> in fact, uh, Steve
Raza, we've been watching him.

1124
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,520
He has actually finished a new
novel while we were recording. Uh,

1125
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,760
he just started it from the very beginning
and I think he's writing me up a blog

1126
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:23,360
now.

1127
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,080
<Laugh> maybe a short story,
but, uh, <laugh> no, really. Um,

1128
00:59:28,020 --> 00:59:31,030
yeah, it's just this, I, I don't
even know how to describe it.

1129
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:34,830
My brain just constantly churning on
these different things I wanna play with.

1130
00:59:34,830 --> 00:59:37,350
I mean, like there are
literally, you know,

1131
00:59:37,350 --> 00:59:39,750
I've got notes written down on
my bolts and board and stuff.

1132
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:44,640
They're literally like six or
eight more books just sitting there

1133
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,160
that I would hope to eventually do, but
I'm probably not gonna do anytime soon,

1134
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,840
maybe more. And it's like, you know,

1135
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:55,120
sometimes things are just snippets of
ideas and others are a little more fully

1136
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,310
formed when they appear in
my brain. But, um, yeah,

1137
01:00:00,470 --> 01:00:03,390
I don't know. It's kind of hard
to, it's hard to explain. I mean,

1138
01:00:03,740 --> 01:00:06,910
I I've joked with some people that
yes, I understand writer's block,

1139
01:00:06,910 --> 01:00:11,390
but I don't understand idea block cuz I
can, I can get stuck writing something.

1140
01:00:11,390 --> 01:00:15,230
Absolutely. But when it comes to coming
up with another idea, it's not, it's,

1141
01:00:15,230 --> 01:00:20,230
it's just a weird, weird thing. It's it's
really full up here. It's really full.

1142
01:00:20,540 --> 01:00:21,790
Well, somehow Steve,

1143
01:00:21,790 --> 01:00:25,470
we've managed to be booth neighbors of
the last several real makers conferences,

1144
01:00:25,470 --> 01:00:28,750
right. Uh, even in Atlantic
city, uh, just a month or so ago,

1145
01:00:29,130 --> 01:00:32,830
but I'm sped on your brother and
I see you like writing on stuff,

1146
01:00:32,830 --> 01:00:35,830
using your word processor, Uhhuh,
like in the middle of crowded rooms.

1147
01:00:35,980 --> 01:00:37,670
I don't know how you do that. Cause I,

1148
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:42,110
I need a special sacred space
with my music in my headphones.

1149
01:00:42,110 --> 01:00:44,830
Like I need that in order
to try to write a novel,

1150
01:00:44,890 --> 01:00:47,910
but you just seemed always to have, uh,

1151
01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:50,790
have certain sectors of your brain, uh,

1152
01:00:50,790 --> 01:00:54,670
devoted to that task space. And,
um, I'm an admiration of that.

1153
01:00:54,670 --> 01:00:57,710
And it's resulted in not just the face
of the deep series, which is your,

1154
01:00:57,710 --> 01:01:01,230
which your sci-fi series.
Uh, but you've also got, uh,

1155
01:01:01,230 --> 01:01:03,270
some paranormal investigators going on.

1156
01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:08,150
Now you got some steampunk fantasy going
on, uh, vent, chin, mercury, hail, uh,

1157
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:11,470
the mercury on or in, or, you
know, mercury preposition,

1158
01:01:11,470 --> 01:01:14,990
something is the title structure there?
Yes. Is that seven or eight books now?

1159
01:01:14,990 --> 01:01:16,750
That's kinda, it's serious.

1160
01:01:16,750 --> 01:01:18,710
It's four novels and three novels.

1161
01:01:18,820 --> 01:01:20,750
Okay. Okay. So yeah, so you can get that.

1162
01:01:20,750 --> 01:01:24,110
And what is that about if you can
just give a quicker pitch? Yeah.

1163
01:01:24,110 --> 01:01:26,950
Mercury is like just this mish mash.

1164
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:30,430
I think Zach was asking me what kind of
inspired mercury at the beginning there,

1165
01:01:30,430 --> 01:01:31,263
and really, you know,

1166
01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:36,070
it's this bizarre combo in my head
of reading things like the Harry

1167
01:01:36,070 --> 01:01:39,870
Dresden series and monster
hunter international that
I mentioned by, you know,

1168
01:01:39,870 --> 01:01:41,510
Jim butcher and Larry KARE, respectively,

1169
01:01:41,690 --> 01:01:45,070
but also watching things like
the XFiles and of course,

1170
01:01:45,070 --> 01:01:49,870
agents of shield and the Marvel
universe that I'm constantly consuming.

1171
01:01:50,210 --> 01:01:54,470
All of that mish mashed up is kind
of what informs me when I'm doing

1172
01:01:54,820 --> 01:01:57,030
this series. I mean, it is frankly,

1173
01:01:57,030 --> 01:02:00,390
especially agents of shield because
the whole way of how you fit this stuff

1174
01:02:00,390 --> 01:02:04,670
around a real world or whatever
is always intriguing to me. Um,

1175
01:02:05,250 --> 01:02:09,440
and you know, it's, it's been a
really fun series because it's,

1176
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,600
it's only most of it,

1177
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,560
vast majority is only first
person only from his perspective.

1178
01:02:15,370 --> 01:02:19,440
So it's all just like you're in the
character's head all the time. And really,

1179
01:02:19,550 --> 01:02:19,960
I mean,

1180
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,760
I'm just pulling a lot of things
about my own bearing levels of sarcasm

1181
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,400
thing and injected into
this guy, uh, you know,

1182
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:32,830
our respective love of pizza and
things like that, but yeah, that's,

1183
01:02:32,830 --> 01:02:36,310
that's kind of how it got formulated.
And so you've, you've got this guy,

1184
01:02:36,310 --> 01:02:40,710
this young guy who basically
is working for this secretive

1185
01:02:40,860 --> 01:02:45,030
foundation that by day does all sorts
of good things in the community,

1186
01:02:45,030 --> 01:02:49,390
but by night has him on staff to go
slay these monsters that show up.

1187
01:02:49,490 --> 01:02:54,430
And the whole gist of the series is that
as things pick up and accelerate and

1188
01:02:54,430 --> 01:02:59,110
these, uh, dimensional riffs or
whatever, becoming more and more, uh,

1189
01:02:59,550 --> 01:03:02,790
frequent and dangerous, he's
kind of transitioning from,

1190
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:07,190
he sort of goofs off most of the time,
but he takes it somewhat seriously to,

1191
01:03:07,460 --> 01:03:09,310
he's getting more and more responsibility,

1192
01:03:09,310 --> 01:03:12,550
more and more things it's getting
to borrow, uh, back to the future.

1193
01:03:12,550 --> 01:03:14,990
It's getting heavy and you know,

1194
01:03:15,540 --> 01:03:19,590
he's gotta take more responsibility for
himself than for other people then for

1195
01:03:19,590 --> 01:03:24,070
like the organization itself. And
yeah, it's a lot more on his plate.

1196
01:03:24,070 --> 01:03:28,670
He's just gotta step up to, uh,
prevent various world disasters.

1197
01:03:29,010 --> 01:03:30,190
But I also, like,

1198
01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:35,270
I love things where you get the chance
to show super powered individuals doing

1199
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:38,030
things that are just kind of
goofing off with their powers.

1200
01:03:38,380 --> 01:03:42,910
Like I was not above him using
his weapon, the P artist, Dave,

1201
01:03:42,910 --> 01:03:46,510
to heat up a slice of pizza when it
was too cold <laugh> and you know,

1202
01:03:46,510 --> 01:03:50,110
other characters who are the serious
characters are appalled that he's like,

1203
01:03:50,350 --> 01:03:50,860
whatever.

1204
01:03:50,860 --> 01:03:52,630
That's a, that absolutely would happen.

1205
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:55,150
Yeah. It would happen. That's
what I like about doing it.

1206
01:03:55,420 --> 01:03:58,710
Well, going back in time, he started off
with the face of the deep series. Yeah.

1207
01:03:58,710 --> 01:04:02,510
Uh, which is of a genre. That to
me still seems increasingly rare.

1208
01:04:02,510 --> 01:04:07,030
Now we were talking earlier about star
Trek, which is atheist in space. Uh,

1209
01:04:07,030 --> 01:04:11,430
some people would say that star wars
is, uh, kind of Buddhist in space. Yeah.

1210
01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:11,820
Sort of.

1211
01:04:11,820 --> 01:04:15,670
Little bit. Yeah. Now Carrie needs our
friend Carrie needs, uh, for a while he,

1212
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:18,630
he been having some Muslims
in space and then of course,

1213
01:04:18,630 --> 01:04:22,470
Amish vampires and zombies and wear
wolves in space, Uhhuh <affirmative>,

1214
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:25,630
but you've written one of the few
stories that is Christians in space,

1215
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:27,150
which is the face of the deep series.

1216
01:04:27,150 --> 01:04:30,470
And I personally resonate so hard with
that because I love me some stories about

1217
01:04:30,470 --> 01:04:33,230
Christians in space and perhaps
someday will find out more about that.

1218
01:04:33,610 --> 01:04:37,590
But I enjoyed those books because you've
got this far future. I mean, it's,

1219
01:04:37,590 --> 01:04:41,950
it's hundreds or thousands of years in
the future where knowledge of the Bible

1220
01:04:41,950 --> 01:04:46,550
has just been kind of lost. And
then you have one young man, uh,

1221
01:04:46,550 --> 01:04:51,270
Baden who in the words of at least one
version of the back cover picked up the

1222
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:55,790
wrong book and that launches this whole
space adventure. It was an initial, uh,

1223
01:04:55,790 --> 01:05:00,190
really a two part novel, uh, from the
predecessor of enclave publishing, uh,

1224
01:05:00,190 --> 01:05:03,190
which is the previously known
as marcher Lord press. Uh,

1225
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:06,150
how did that story come about?
Like what inspired that,

1226
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:09,070
where you write a type of book
that I just don't see that often.

1227
01:05:09,170 --> 01:05:11,950
You know, I really do think
it was a mix of, like I said,

1228
01:05:11,950 --> 01:05:14,950
coming outta college and reading,
uh, the Tim these on books,

1229
01:05:14,950 --> 01:05:16,150
which is where I discovered those.

1230
01:05:16,370 --> 01:05:19,280
And then sometime right
at the end of college,

1231
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,680
or right when I got out was when
Kathy tire's books came out.

1232
01:05:23,020 --> 01:05:26,640
And as I started working on an
idea for a space opera series,

1233
01:05:27,310 --> 01:05:30,360
I had been reading Chris
Wally's lamb among the earth.

1234
01:05:30,690 --> 01:05:32,860
So as I had done that,

1235
01:05:32,860 --> 01:05:36,100
I'd known I wanted to do something
Christian related because I'd actually

1236
01:05:36,100 --> 01:05:38,140
written a novel while I was in college.

1237
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,460
And then self-published it right
after college. It's not very good,

1238
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,980
but it was okay. I mean, it's
okay. You know, it's not terrible,

1239
01:05:45,980 --> 01:05:48,900
but it's not great either
is like, all right.

1240
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,820
But that was really my first experiment
with do it because I wanted to do

1241
01:05:51,820 --> 01:05:56,460
something Christian related like
that. And then as I was doing that,

1242
01:05:56,460 --> 01:05:59,020
I kind of stumbled onto these other
two. I was like, wait a minute.

1243
01:05:59,020 --> 01:06:01,660
This could actually be
maybe legit. It really do.

1244
01:06:02,070 --> 01:06:06,180
So I spent several years working on that
series and kind of putting these themes

1245
01:06:06,180 --> 01:06:10,790
into there. Um, and you know,

1246
01:06:10,790 --> 01:06:15,550
it was funny because it was a really slow
going thing because I had been working

1247
01:06:15,550 --> 01:06:19,750
in the journalism field. And so I was
constantly constantly writing, writing,

1248
01:06:19,750 --> 01:06:20,630
writing everything,

1249
01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:24,510
and then I got home and you don't
wanna write for the rest of day.

1250
01:06:24,510 --> 01:06:26,550
Cause that's what I just did all
day work. I don't wanna do. Yeah.

1251
01:06:26,550 --> 01:06:30,110
I'm sure you could
commiserate with that. But I,

1252
01:06:30,110 --> 01:06:33,510
so I had probably about the first third
of what would eventually become those

1253
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:38,470
two books done when I lost my job
then within nine months of that

1254
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:43,400
is when I finished the
rest. So just virtue of,

1255
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,500
I was no longer doing that. It was
just this kind of freedom of, you know,

1256
01:06:47,590 --> 01:06:49,500
it was very clearly God being like, okay,

1257
01:06:49,500 --> 01:06:52,060
now that you're done complaining and
whining about the fact that you lost your

1258
01:06:52,060 --> 01:06:56,460
job, here's what you need to do with
that. I'm like, oh, he's like Uhhuh.

1259
01:06:56,780 --> 01:07:01,380
Let's see. So, and then, um, you know,

1260
01:07:01,380 --> 01:07:04,340
I tried the traditional route of
sending it out to some agents and some

1261
01:07:04,340 --> 01:07:05,820
publishers, but I was really new.

1262
01:07:05,820 --> 01:07:10,020
I'd done like no research at all on the
proper way to do it other than reading a

1263
01:07:10,020 --> 01:07:14,100
few books. And, uh, some of
which at our library, <laugh>,

1264
01:07:14,570 --> 01:07:19,190
I kind of stumbled upon
marcher Lord press and had

1265
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:22,150
submitted it. I got to
note back, actually,

1266
01:07:22,890 --> 01:07:26,350
not too far off this time of the
year. I think it was like July.

1267
01:07:26,350 --> 01:07:30,510
I was on vacation actually in New
Jersey ocean city, same place.

1268
01:07:30,510 --> 01:07:34,350
I was going to this year before real
makers and got the note back from the

1269
01:07:34,350 --> 01:07:37,950
publisher saying, Hey, we'd
like to publish this book
years, but it's too long.

1270
01:07:37,950 --> 01:07:42,150
So we're cut it in half and have it books
and me not knowing anything. I'm like,

1271
01:07:42,150 --> 01:07:47,070
well, I didn't realize that people
didn't like cliff hangers. I, you know,

1272
01:07:47,070 --> 01:07:50,830
rookie mistake. But all I
heard was instead of one book,

1273
01:07:50,830 --> 01:07:54,270
you'll have two I'm like,
okay, sure. <laugh> yeah. So.

1274
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:59,070
So they, they do gotten ahead of the game
of a splitting of the book into yeah.

1275
01:07:59,070 --> 01:08:01,110
Two parts in order to maximize. Yeah.

1276
01:08:01,110 --> 01:08:05,230
And so then from there, you know,
I did, I did the broken site,

1277
01:08:05,230 --> 01:08:07,750
which was a follow up to that.
And then after that, you know,

1278
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:10,870
with different various things
that happened, I started
just kind of going, well,

1279
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:14,180
maybe I can write some other
things that aren't base opera.

1280
01:08:14,180 --> 01:08:18,400
Maybe I should try some other things.
So then I did the, uh, the SAR brothers,

1281
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,960
the steam punk, couple of books there. Um,

1282
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:25,400
I tried my hand at fantasy and I have
to give credit to carry needs for

1283
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:29,090
encouraging me to do first person
writing because I never would've done it.

1284
01:08:29,100 --> 01:08:31,890
If he hadn't pushed me to do that.
He's like, your writing's really good.

1285
01:08:31,890 --> 01:08:33,650
You should do first person. Yeah. You.

1286
01:08:33,730 --> 01:08:34,650
Really likes the first.

1287
01:08:34,650 --> 01:08:37,490
Person. He does. He's
really good at it. And uh,

1288
01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:41,450
so a lot of kudos to him for encouraging
me to do that because that really

1289
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:46,330
impacted, obviously impacted my
writing going forward from there. Uh,

1290
01:08:46,330 --> 01:08:47,130
and so then from there,

1291
01:08:47,130 --> 01:08:51,130
it just kind of spiraled because I would
just kept kind of trying new things and

1292
01:08:51,130 --> 01:08:53,570
people would ask me if I was interested
in writing new things and my default

1293
01:08:53,850 --> 01:08:54,683
reaction was okay,

1294
01:08:55,820 --> 01:09:00,370
so it's like those stereotypical movies
or TV shows you see where the character

1295
01:09:00,370 --> 01:09:03,850
who never says yes to things starts
saying yes to everything. <laugh>,

1296
01:09:03,850 --> 01:09:04,930
that's how I wound up.

1297
01:09:04,930 --> 01:09:06,010
It's so Jim Kerry movie.

1298
01:09:06,010 --> 01:09:07,930
I yeah. Yes. Oh yes, man. There you go.

1299
01:09:09,470 --> 01:09:10,690
The best maybe.

1300
01:09:10,690 --> 01:09:13,450
Our best role model. Yeah. Right.

1301
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:18,010
Well, I love the first book of the face
of the deep series. Um, you know, it's,

1302
01:09:18,010 --> 01:09:21,690
it's sort of like Fahrenheit
4 51 in space with the.

1303
01:09:21,690 --> 01:09:22,090
Whole, that's.

1304
01:09:22,090 --> 01:09:26,950
A good way to put it kinda a whole space
opera, military sci-fi intergalactic,

1305
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:29,630
uh, conflict happening. So, um,

1306
01:09:29,630 --> 01:09:33,030
that was fun and I I've recommended
it to a lot of people, um,

1307
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:34,990
because it's sort of like, Hey,

1308
01:09:34,990 --> 01:09:38,510
did you know that there are Christian
sci-fi books out there? And that, uh,

1309
01:09:38,580 --> 01:09:43,430
that, that take both of those words
seriously. And, and so <laugh>,

1310
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,070
it, it's a great book.
I totally recommend it.

1311
01:09:46,070 --> 01:09:49,030
Thanks. And they sell really well at
the homeschool conferences too. Uh,

1312
01:09:49,030 --> 01:09:50,070
Steve and I have been at, uh,

1313
01:09:50,070 --> 01:09:53,790
some of those events and folks will
enjoy them a lot, you know, especially,

1314
01:09:53,790 --> 01:09:56,350
I mean, it's a very homeschool,
friendly premise. It's,

1315
01:09:56,350 --> 01:09:59,470
it's somebody finds a lost
copy of the Bible in space.

1316
01:09:59,810 --> 01:10:03,630
And also there's a lot of spaceships and
wars and lasers and Mexico and things.

1317
01:10:03,630 --> 01:10:06,950
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's
definitely something that is a, it is a,

1318
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:10,670
is a good solid pitch there. Uh,
it, it's also, I would say, uh,

1319
01:10:10,910 --> 01:10:12,230
interestingly Steve, on your website,

1320
01:10:12,230 --> 01:10:15,350
and if people go to that link of the show
notes, they'll see in your repertoire,

1321
01:10:15,350 --> 01:10:19,550
uh, you've grouped the books that
you've written under PG stories. Yep.

1322
01:10:19,550 --> 01:10:23,310
As well as PG 13 stories, which
I say found interesting. And.

1323
01:10:23,310 --> 01:10:24,990
That leads me that's because
I learned about audience.

1324
01:10:25,550 --> 01:10:25,930
<Laugh>.

1325
01:10:25,930 --> 01:10:27,430
Yes. Well, this.

1326
01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:29,910
Is just part to find your way
along, you know, you're, you're,

1327
01:10:29,910 --> 01:10:32,990
you're out in space, you know, you're
hauling cargo around. And then, uh,

1328
01:10:32,990 --> 01:10:34,590
every once in a while,
it's just difficult to, uh,

1329
01:10:34,590 --> 01:10:38,510
get a hold of a lost book and some
lost information like that. But, uh,

1330
01:10:38,510 --> 01:10:40,470
somehow you've managed
to pull it off anyway.

1331
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:44,830
And so you've got PG stories and you
also got what you've labeled is PG 13,

1332
01:10:44,830 --> 01:10:48,830
which includes the deception fleet series
where you actually have a co-author

1333
01:10:48,830 --> 01:10:50,990
and I'm less familiar
with that, I must say.

1334
01:10:50,990 --> 01:10:53,470
But it's one of those instances
where somebody else comes along,

1335
01:10:53,470 --> 01:10:55,990
who's got like this whole sci-fi universe,

1336
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:59,310
like military sci-fi they've put
together a, what is that series about?

1337
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,950
So a guy named Daniel Gibbs,
he wrote a series called I,

1338
01:11:04,340 --> 01:11:06,350
I think it's called echoes
of war. I hope I'm not,

1339
01:11:06,620 --> 01:11:10,150
that's either the name of the first book
or the name of the series, I forget.

1340
01:11:10,450 --> 01:11:15,280
But basically he's written what he
calls the, um, Tarn diaspora books,

1341
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:19,800
which is basically like the best
summary of it is that it's like base

1342
01:11:20,510 --> 01:11:25,200
Christians and Judeo-Christian
faith versus space

1343
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,720
communists. That's the best way I can
put it summary. It's a really big,

1344
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:32,080
huge I'm there, I'm there huge
expansive world. So you have the,

1345
01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:33,800
you have the Terre coalition,

1346
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:38,400
which is basically the Terre
coalition is an Alliance of Christian

1347
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,120
Jewish and Muslim faiths in this one

1348
01:11:42,670 --> 01:11:46,310
coalition of planets or whatever.
Uh, pretty tightly tied together.

1349
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:49,830
It's not like a loosey goosey Alliance.
And then you have the league of soul,

1350
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:53,950
which is basically like
hardcore communist socialist,

1351
01:11:54,150 --> 01:11:56,150
whatever took over the
rest of that area space.

1352
01:11:56,290 --> 01:11:57,790
And they've been at war for a while.

1353
01:11:57,790 --> 01:11:59,070
Do you have different
things going on like that?

1354
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:03,390
So he has this seven book series,
which explores the war itself. Um,

1355
01:12:03,390 --> 01:12:08,230
he also has a side series that he had
co-authored with somebody else that is

1356
01:12:08,230 --> 01:12:10,710
kind of like, uh, it goes
alongside that series.

1357
01:12:10,710 --> 01:12:14,510
And it's about this group of independent
systems who aren't ruled by anybody

1358
01:12:15,410 --> 01:12:19,470
and either of those two big nations and
how they figure into the war and help

1359
01:12:19,470 --> 01:12:21,390
out and things like that. Um,

1360
01:12:21,390 --> 01:12:25,540
he had actually put out a
request a couple years ago

1361
01:12:25,990 --> 01:12:27,870
about, Hey, look, I'm
looking to expand this.

1362
01:12:27,870 --> 01:12:31,110
I'm looking for another co-author so we
can write some more. And me of course,

1363
01:12:31,110 --> 01:12:33,310
being like, yeah, sure. I
don't have anything else to do.

1364
01:12:33,310 --> 01:12:38,190
I guess was <laugh> was like,
there's the eyeroll insert there. Um,

1365
01:12:38,740 --> 01:12:40,230
I kind of talked to him. I like, well,

1366
01:12:40,230 --> 01:12:41,990
cuz I had written a
co-written a book before,

1367
01:12:42,370 --> 01:12:44,190
but this co-writing was very different.

1368
01:12:44,190 --> 01:12:49,150
It's more of once we get the first book
planned out and done together, I mean,

1369
01:12:49,150 --> 01:12:52,310
I basically just wrote the whole
thing and he signed off on it.

1370
01:12:52,730 --> 01:12:55,430
Now the first book was a
lot of heavy, you know,

1371
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:59,670
I'd send him chapters and chunks of it
and he would say, no, don't do that. Yes,

1372
01:12:59,670 --> 01:13:02,830
do this. No, that's not how I like
character react. Yes, that's correct.

1373
01:13:02,830 --> 01:13:04,830
That's how that character
react, et cetera, et cetera,

1374
01:13:04,830 --> 01:13:09,550
getting the technical terms. Right.
Um, getting more of the military,

1375
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:12,310
uh, protocol. Right.
Which I'm happy to say.

1376
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:14,550
I didn't completely goof
up in the face of the deep,

1377
01:13:14,550 --> 01:13:18,030
but I still didn't get exactly right.
Either because he corrected a bunch.

1378
01:13:18,030 --> 01:13:22,510
It which always learning
deception fleet is like a,

1379
01:13:22,510 --> 01:13:27,020
it's basically like Tom
Clancy's op center to it.

1380
01:13:27,020 --> 01:13:28,340
If anybody's familiar with that series,

1381
01:13:28,570 --> 01:13:33,340
you've got a small team of
military and civilian spies

1382
01:13:33,340 --> 01:13:38,170
or agents doing these
top secret missions while

1383
01:13:38,170 --> 01:13:41,730
you're also seeing like a bit of the
politics behind the scene with the

1384
01:13:41,730 --> 01:13:42,770
president and his cabinet.

1385
01:13:43,110 --> 01:13:47,250
And you're also seeing the other military
aspects like their stealth ships and

1386
01:13:47,250 --> 01:13:51,170
the missions they run and
the main ship, the, uh,

1387
01:13:51,430 --> 01:13:55,690
CSV Oxford, which is like
the spy base ship. Um,

1388
01:13:55,690 --> 01:13:56,970
kind of like the disguise ships,

1389
01:13:56,970 --> 01:14:01,520
the us military used for signal
interception and things like that. Um,

1390
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:06,490
and so it all kind of fits together
into this covert action, um,

1391
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,400
spy, world political intrigue thing. So
it's like a cold war that's going on.

1392
01:14:12,610 --> 01:14:16,840
There's not a, the war is over the
treaty sign. The enemy's defeated,

1393
01:14:16,980 --> 01:14:20,960
but there's still a lot of sneaky
stuff going on around there.

1394
01:14:20,980 --> 01:14:25,000
And so really the deception fleet series
follows this team of five operatives

1395
01:14:25,140 --> 01:14:28,160
and their interactions with
each other. And you know,

1396
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:32,200
there's different threads like the main
character and his conflict with his

1397
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:34,800
family, especially with
his parents and you know,

1398
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:38,520
running their family homestead back on
the planet when he's always off and away.

1399
01:14:39,450 --> 01:14:44,120
Uh, the female spy, who's
one of his good friends. Um,

1400
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:48,600
there's this whole thread about,
this is one thing I did differently,

1401
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:53,120
the thread of their friendship, like their
friend, their pals. And so, you know,

1402
01:14:53,370 --> 01:14:56,800
it feels like there might be some
hints that there's, you know,

1403
01:14:57,260 --> 01:14:59,160
the stereotypical developing into romance,

1404
01:15:00,060 --> 01:15:04,980
but I'll leave it UN spoiled as to how
that all shakes out with his personal

1405
01:15:04,980 --> 01:15:08,420
relationships and things. So I tried to
play things a little differently. Um,

1406
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:10,850
yeah, so it's just a
different story world,

1407
01:15:10,970 --> 01:15:15,250
but the reason I have it under the PG
13 thing is Dan is very much of the

1408
01:15:15,250 --> 01:15:17,860
opinion of on the one hand.

1409
01:15:17,860 --> 01:15:21,660
He doesn't wanna shove a lot of gratuitous
things in just for gratuitous sake.

1410
01:15:21,660 --> 01:15:24,660
But on the other hand, as somebody
who's dealt with the military a lot,

1411
01:15:24,660 --> 01:15:28,420
he knows that the military in
general, lots of people swear a lot.

1412
01:15:29,310 --> 01:15:31,980
So we didn't do that with these,

1413
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:36,460
but it's not completely stripped out
either. So that's why I say PG 13.

1414
01:15:36,460 --> 01:15:36,860
There is,

1415
01:15:36,860 --> 01:15:40,340
I mean really the biggest
difference between that and
my other books is there is

1416
01:15:40,340 --> 01:15:43,820
some of that profanity in there, but
it's really based on the situation.

1417
01:15:44,190 --> 01:15:47,540
So if it's a really intense battle and
things are going on and people are dying,

1418
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:50,380
you might see some of
those. If it's a Strat,

1419
01:15:50,830 --> 01:15:53,740
if it's a strategy session
between several people,

1420
01:15:53,740 --> 01:15:55,740
you're probably gonna see hardly nothing.

1421
01:15:56,440 --> 01:15:58,540
And it really varies
throughout the series.

1422
01:15:58,870 --> 01:16:01,980
So that's why I have that caveat on there.

1423
01:16:02,050 --> 01:16:04,180
That, that brings us back
to the beginning. Now,

1424
01:16:04,180 --> 01:16:08,140
should there be rating systems
in libraries for library books?

1425
01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:11,380
<laugh> yeah. Maybe that's
a whole other episode.

1426
01:16:11,850 --> 01:16:15,300
I, I just wanna know what it's like
for Steve being a library director.

1427
01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:18,540
And then also knowing that he's writing
some of the books that you may be

1428
01:16:18,540 --> 01:16:21,140
borrowing from your local
library. I mean, you get,

1429
01:16:21,140 --> 01:16:23,740
you've got a double life there, but
it's just completely out in the open,

1430
01:16:23,810 --> 01:16:24,740
like Ironman.

1431
01:16:24,970 --> 01:16:29,460
Yeah. Right. Basically like here's
my address. No, it's pretty fun. Uh,

1432
01:16:29,460 --> 01:16:31,380
you know, sometimes people
just commit. It'll be like,

1433
01:16:31,380 --> 01:16:33,740
I haven't read in your books yet. What
should I start with? And then I'm like,

1434
01:16:33,740 --> 01:16:34,860
oh gee, wow. Uh.

1435
01:16:34,860 --> 01:16:36,620
Well it depends on your
personality. Right.

1436
01:16:36,750 --> 01:16:39,980
So do I have, I mean, you've heard me
talk to people at real baker. So I'm like,

1437
01:16:39,980 --> 01:16:42,780
well, what do you wanna read? What do you
like to read? Do you like space opera?

1438
01:16:42,830 --> 01:16:44,700
If you don't like space opera,
don't look at these books.

1439
01:16:45,150 --> 01:16:49,500
If you like smart mouth monster fighting
guys, look at these books down here,

1440
01:16:49,730 --> 01:16:51,740
that kind of thing. And if you like.

1441
01:16:51,740 --> 01:16:55,500
Monotheist versus communist, <laugh>
go look at me inside it's space.

1442
01:16:55,530 --> 01:16:58,460
Yeah. It's like, do you like, and
then I go, well now I go like, okay,

1443
01:16:58,460 --> 01:17:01,660
do you like your space opera? More
like star wars or like star Trek?

1444
01:17:01,660 --> 01:17:05,540
And they're like, oh, kinda like, you
know, I like battle star galactic.

1445
01:17:05,540 --> 01:17:08,380
It's like, okay, well you want
deceptive fleet then it's like, oh,

1446
01:17:08,380 --> 01:17:10,920
but I really like lighthearted
star wars. Like, okay,

1447
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:15,080
you want the face of the deep? It's
kinda fun like that. But I mean, yeah.

1448
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:17,440
I do have some interaction with
people when they come in. Sometimes,

1449
01:17:17,440 --> 01:17:19,960
sometimes they're just finding out that
I have books other times they're like,

1450
01:17:19,980 --> 01:17:21,800
Hey, you know, I've never
read your stuff before.

1451
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,280
What would you recommend for way to read?

1452
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:27,640
So it is really kind of bizarre because
I'll be talking about other authors and

1453
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:32,380
then I'll be talking about me and kind
of have to remember not to refer to me

1454
01:17:32,380 --> 01:17:33,980
and the third person <laugh>,

1455
01:17:33,980 --> 01:17:37,460
don't don't wanna get that Seinfeld
level of weirdness going on.

1456
01:17:37,780 --> 01:17:38,100
<Laugh> well,

1457
01:17:38,100 --> 01:17:40,820
I know that one of my wife's favorite
books of yours is for us humans.

1458
01:17:41,390 --> 01:17:42,780
Oh yeah. That's one of my.

1459
01:17:43,270 --> 01:17:47,300
Uh, enclave. So also plan an Easter
for, uh, our next guest here. Uh,

1460
01:17:47,300 --> 01:17:51,260
the Steve saga, uh, I wanna, I want
a quick pitch of, for us humans,

1461
01:17:51,260 --> 01:17:53,420
cuz you've got humans and
aliens and a little, uh,

1462
01:17:53,420 --> 01:17:56,820
Christian philosophy and stuff going
on there. And I wish to stress that in,

1463
01:17:56,820 --> 01:18:00,060
by my definition, Steve, everything
you write is Christian fiction,

1464
01:18:00,060 --> 01:18:03,540
whether or not it would be labeled that
way because you are the Christian hidden

1465
01:18:03,540 --> 01:18:06,540
in plain sight. Even if
the characters are not, uh,

1466
01:18:06,540 --> 01:18:10,740
acting or professing in that way. But
for us, humans goes a little bit, uh,

1467
01:18:10,740 --> 01:18:13,140
as he said, it gets a little
heavier, get goes a little deeper,

1468
01:18:13,140 --> 01:18:16,420
but also has this, uh, kind of whimsical
story of aliens living among well,

1469
01:18:16,420 --> 01:18:17,253
us humans.

1470
01:18:17,930 --> 01:18:20,700
Yeah. So with, for us humans,

1471
01:18:21,570 --> 01:18:24,420
it's an alternate version of our timeline.

1472
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:28,980
The biggest difference
being in 2001, roughly, uh,

1473
01:18:28,980 --> 01:18:31,860
the aliens showed up and instead
of the normal conquest thing,

1474
01:18:31,860 --> 01:18:35,420
they kind of were like, look, I
played a little bit off of, uh,

1475
01:18:35,420 --> 01:18:38,420
Hitchhiker's guy to the galaxy instead
of blowing up earth to build a highway

1476
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:41,350
they're they show up and are like, look,

1477
01:18:41,350 --> 01:18:45,430
your system is at a really sweet spot
to build our corridors that we use our

1478
01:18:45,430 --> 01:18:49,470
portals that we use for, uh, warp driver,
whatever. And they're like, I mean,

1479
01:18:49,550 --> 01:18:53,750
we'll just kind of absorb you as like
this kind of second rate protector into

1480
01:18:53,750 --> 01:18:56,710
our empire. We don't really care
what you're doing here, but you know,

1481
01:18:56,710 --> 01:18:58,230
we got some rules and we'll pay you too.

1482
01:18:58,620 --> 01:19:00,750
It's just kind our
leasing fee or whatever.

1483
01:19:00,750 --> 01:19:02,630
So it's like more of a
cause I thought about it.

1484
01:19:02,630 --> 01:19:04,110
I'm like all these alien invasion stories,

1485
01:19:04,110 --> 01:19:07,910
the aliens show up and wanna destroy
wreck things even while they supposedly

1486
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:12,660
want our real estate. And I'm like, well
maybe the aliens just are, you know,

1487
01:19:12,970 --> 01:19:17,380
more practical and are willing to pay
for things <laugh> cause and humans of

1488
01:19:17,380 --> 01:19:19,220
course are like, Hey money. That's great.

1489
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:22,780
And so that was really the
end joke there for that one.

1490
01:19:23,070 --> 01:19:25,140
So the story itself takes
place probably about,

1491
01:19:25,140 --> 01:19:28,380
I think it's like 15 years later, the
aliens have been there for a while.

1492
01:19:28,380 --> 01:19:30,540
So it's all just normal.
Nobody thinks it's weird.

1493
01:19:30,540 --> 01:19:34,700
And I think one of the first scenes I
have is while the main character who is an

1494
01:19:34,700 --> 01:19:39,300
art recovery specialist who hunts down
stolen paintings and sculptures and

1495
01:19:39,300 --> 01:19:41,340
things like that and gets him back, um,

1496
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:45,550
he pulls up to a place and he grumbling
because there's the handicap parking

1497
01:19:45,550 --> 01:19:46,190
access spot,

1498
01:19:46,190 --> 01:19:49,270
but right next to it's two or three
spots where only the aliens can park.

1499
01:19:49,270 --> 01:19:52,990
Cause they're social hierarchy a little
bit up above the humans now it's like,

1500
01:19:52,990 --> 01:19:56,510
Ugh, great. Those guys. Um, you know,

1501
01:19:56,510 --> 01:19:58,590
just cuz humans like to
complain about things too.

1502
01:19:58,820 --> 01:20:02,310
I see this happening a
little intersectionality
with, uh, with aliens there.

1503
01:20:02,310 --> 01:20:03,143
Wow.

1504
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:06,430
So it's, it's funny
because you know, we have,

1505
01:20:08,070 --> 01:20:11,660
it really turns into this buddy cop
thing at its heart. That's what it is.

1506
01:20:11,660 --> 01:20:13,900
You know, you've got the hero who is a,

1507
01:20:13,900 --> 01:20:17,980
this undercover art recovery specialist
and you've got an alien who does a

1508
01:20:17,980 --> 01:20:22,540
similar kind of job for the alien empire
and they have to team up to get back

1509
01:20:22,540 --> 01:20:27,340
this sculpture that's of huge cultural
significance to one of the races that is

1510
01:20:27,340 --> 01:20:32,140
like the big cheese at the top
of the, um, alien empire there.

1511
01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:33,820
And this leads of course,

1512
01:20:33,820 --> 01:20:36,700
to the weirdness part of it and
the philosophical part of it,

1513
01:20:36,700 --> 01:20:41,020
which is that the human is best described
as a backlit Christian who's just down

1514
01:20:41,020 --> 01:20:41,853
on himself.

1515
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:46,340
And the alien is really intrigued by
all this Jesus stuff and wants to know

1516
01:20:46,340 --> 01:20:49,230
more, which of course the human
doesn't wanna talk about at all.

1517
01:20:49,230 --> 01:20:52,190
And so that's where most of
your conflict is. Mm. Um,

1518
01:20:52,830 --> 01:20:55,970
and I did mess with a lot of, I put
a couple things in there about like,

1519
01:20:55,970 --> 01:21:00,850
you know, trying to hypothesize on
the impact of that on Christianity.

1520
01:21:01,150 --> 01:21:05,010
And I went pretty hard on it in
terms of, I was of the opinion,

1521
01:21:05,010 --> 01:21:08,930
maybe cynically that you would see
a lot of people drop their faith,

1522
01:21:08,930 --> 01:21:12,970
like a hot potato. And on the one
hand I may have been wrong about that.

1523
01:21:12,970 --> 01:21:13,850
But on the other hand,

1524
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,050
I have practical experience and personal
experience with people literally

1525
01:21:18,050 --> 01:21:21,810
leaving a church because they didn't like
things like banner decorations or the

1526
01:21:21,810 --> 01:21:26,260
pastor's attitude when he preaches.
So to my mind, I was like,

1527
01:21:26,260 --> 01:21:30,940
if people have left churches because
of what we consider little stinky,

1528
01:21:30,940 --> 01:21:31,773
things like that,

1529
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:36,540
how much more would some people who maybe
were a lot weaker in their faith might

1530
01:21:36,540 --> 01:21:41,260
freak out and abandon things
if they couldn't explain how

1531
01:21:41,570 --> 01:21:45,910
sentient alien governments that are
now at the top of the food chain

1532
01:21:46,420 --> 01:21:50,430
impact what they, what they
view as correct Christianity.

1533
01:21:51,440 --> 01:21:53,750
So yeah, that's where it
gets heavy on that aspect.

1534
01:21:54,410 --> 01:21:55,500
I always say this, but I,

1535
01:21:55,500 --> 01:21:58,780
I think it's now is the time for
the church to really develop, uh,

1536
01:21:58,780 --> 01:21:59,820
that the Protestant church,

1537
01:21:59,820 --> 01:22:03,260
cuz I think the Catholic church is a
little bit ahead of us here. I think the,

1538
01:22:03,260 --> 01:22:07,460
the evangelical church really needs
to develop a robust theology of,

1539
01:22:07,910 --> 01:22:11,820
of aliens, of all kinds of
other weird possibilities.

1540
01:22:11,820 --> 01:22:16,660
And even just what does it mean if humans
travel the solar system and, and yeah.

1541
01:22:16,660 --> 01:22:19,100
Create colonies on the
moon or Mars or whatever,

1542
01:22:19,100 --> 01:22:22,700
like how is that going to affect our
views on things? Because I think we,

1543
01:22:22,710 --> 01:22:24,860
we hold a lot of things, just sort of, uh,

1544
01:22:24,990 --> 01:22:29,180
we have a lot of unspoken expectations
of what's going to happen in the future.

1545
01:22:29,340 --> 01:22:33,100
And so let's just put those expectations
on the page and analyze them because,

1546
01:22:33,100 --> 01:22:35,340
uh, apparently there were people, uh,

1547
01:22:35,340 --> 01:22:39,220
back in the 1950s and
1960s that thought, uh,

1548
01:22:39,220 --> 01:22:43,660
humans would never go to the moon
before, you know, Jesus return.

1549
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:44,500
And so,

1550
01:22:44,500 --> 01:22:48,340
and now we're at the place where humans
might go to Mars and live there and then

1551
01:22:48,340 --> 01:22:53,220
have children there. Um, and so
what's gonna happen, you know, what,

1552
01:22:53,220 --> 01:22:55,580
what what's gonna happen to the
church's view of that. So I,

1553
01:22:55,580 --> 01:22:57,820
I think we should all just
talk very openly about.

1554
01:22:57,820 --> 01:23:01,220
It and stories are a fantastic way
to help us do that. We do however,

1555
01:23:01,220 --> 01:23:04,660
need to keep at least in some way,
I mean keep discerning for sure.

1556
01:23:04,660 --> 01:23:07,120
Obviously stay grounded
in a Christian worldview,

1557
01:23:07,260 --> 01:23:10,920
but whether you're finding these
stories at a public library or at a,

1558
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:14,360
a bookstore at the homeschool
conference or just online,

1559
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:16,960
maybe it's Steve raza.com uh,

1560
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:20,040
keep an open mind about some of
these issues like work through them,

1561
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:23,640
whether they're PG or PG 13
or whatever. And I think, uh,

1562
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:27,920
the public library and sharing stories
amongst ourselves are both great ways to

1563
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:30,280
do that as we draw to a close here, uh,

1564
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:33,960
you can find out more information about
Steve, of course, it's Steve za.com.

1565
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,440
That's Steve R Z a S a uh,

1566
01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:40,920
any other ways that folks can follow
your work on the social media, Steve,

1567
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:43,560
including, uh, whatever projects
you have coming up next.

1568
01:23:43,710 --> 01:23:47,680
That's really the biggest one right
there. I will share stuff on that.

1569
01:23:47,770 --> 01:23:51,680
If you go there, I have a newsletter that
I put out once every, you know, three,

1570
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,360
four weeks or so ish when I've got
new projects and things coming up and

1571
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:57,640
information. So you can sign up for
the newsletter on there as well.

1572
01:23:58,410 --> 01:24:02,070
All right. So Steve roza.com all
links in the show notes. Steve,

1573
01:24:02,070 --> 01:24:06,670
thank you for being our fantastical
first guest for the Steve saga.

1574
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:08,710
Uh, we wish you well. And, uh,

1575
01:24:08,710 --> 01:24:11,990
now I suppose you can just tap your calm
badge and bean back up to the ship and

1576
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:12,790
warp on outta here.

1577
01:24:12,790 --> 01:24:14,470
Sounds good. Thank you guys. All.

1578
01:24:14,470 --> 01:24:14,790
Right. Bon.

1579
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:16,030
Voyage got speed brother.

1580
01:24:20,140 --> 01:24:24,310
Well, to you, our listener, we would
love to hear your library story.

1581
01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:28,470
What's a great moment. You've had
it. Your local lending library.

1582
01:24:29,060 --> 01:24:31,910
What are some treasures you've
found? What are some, uh,

1583
01:24:32,190 --> 01:24:33,510
interesting situations you've been in,

1584
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:37,390
what's been your favorite bookmark
to use or find in a book? Uh,

1585
01:24:37,420 --> 01:24:42,190
send us your note to podcast Laura
haven.com or comment on social

1586
01:24:42,190 --> 01:24:43,670
media or in our Guild.

1587
01:24:44,140 --> 01:24:48,310
Speaking of which we've got a great
comment from Abigail who shared some

1588
01:24:48,310 --> 01:24:52,590
encouragement about our previous
episode 1 27, about the code of honor,

1589
01:24:53,010 --> 01:24:56,350
and Abigail says, quote, good
episode, going over the code of honor.

1590
01:24:56,350 --> 01:24:59,670
It was both helpful and insightful,
not groundbreaking perhaps,

1591
01:24:59,670 --> 01:25:02,830
but interesting to go over why things
are done, how they are around here.

1592
01:25:03,260 --> 01:25:07,750
Lots of good thoughts about how to
read and discuss courteously as fans

1593
01:25:07,750 --> 01:25:11,550
input. Well, thank you, Abigail. And
I'm glad that was helpful to you.

1594
01:25:11,900 --> 01:25:15,670
I think that going over stuff that
isn't groundbreaking is one of the most

1595
01:25:15,670 --> 01:25:17,390
important things we can do, uh,

1596
01:25:17,390 --> 01:25:21,710
to make sure that we add on to the
existing foundation. Uh, in that case,

1597
01:25:21,710 --> 01:25:25,230
we're not trying to build something
new or we're trying to strengthen the

1598
01:25:25,230 --> 01:25:27,470
foundation for what's
already been built. Uh,

1599
01:25:27,590 --> 01:25:31,350
the ground that's already been broken.
Uh, that's important to prevent drift,

1600
01:25:31,350 --> 01:25:33,070
uh, continuing the foundation metaphor.

1601
01:25:33,070 --> 01:25:37,150
I think you can actually go to the famous
parable by Jesus Christ himself who

1602
01:25:37,150 --> 01:25:40,910
urged people to build on the
solid rock and not shifting sand.

1603
01:25:40,910 --> 01:25:43,670
It may be easier to break
ground in shifting sand,

1604
01:25:43,810 --> 01:25:47,190
but it takes a lot of work
to build on the solid rock.

1605
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:51,070
So we're just trying to follow the
example of Christ there and the example of

1606
01:25:51,070 --> 01:25:54,110
any, a biblical organization or
especially a local church, uh,

1607
01:25:54,110 --> 01:25:58,190
that tries to ground its foundations
for belief and practice, uh,

1608
01:25:58,190 --> 01:26:01,950
in the word of God. So appreciate
that very much. Abigail, meanwhile,

1609
01:26:01,950 --> 01:26:05,680
at Laura Haven that we continue to try
to build on the foundation for the Guild.

1610
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,360
That is our discord
server invitation only,

1611
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:12,560
but it's free to subscribe@laurahaven.com
and then we send you that invitation

1612
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:15,320
to a long expected party this week.

1613
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:20,000
We're going on an adventure in the Lou
Haven Guild by reading J R Tolkin classic

1614
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:24,200
fantasy. The Hobbit that actually
should have started on labor day,

1615
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:27,720
Lord willing. Uh, we're going to
catch up with Mr. Billbo Bains,

1616
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:29,680
who lives in a hole in the ground,

1617
01:26:30,020 --> 01:26:33,680
and then is visited by a wizard
who invites him on an adventure,

1618
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:35,600
which Billbo does not want to have.

1619
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:40,320
Thank you very much good morning
until all the dwarfs show up and

1620
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:42,400
start eating all of boats, food,

1621
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:47,120
and threatening to break the dishes and
take him on an adventure to recover,

1622
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:51,960
lost gold lost in the mountain, guarded
by a dragon. It's a great story.

1623
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:54,840
If you have not read it in a while,
or especially if you've never read it,

1624
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,640
you will want to join this.
Quest led by Elijah David,

1625
01:26:57,820 --> 01:27:01,120
get that link in our show notes for our
Hobbit book quest and the Lord Haven

1626
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:05,480
Guild. Also last week on Friday, we
had an advance review of the change.

1627
01:27:05,480 --> 01:27:06,320
That's the, uh,

1628
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:10,120
final book on the chase runner series
from mountain book fire by Bradley Kathy.

1629
01:27:10,570 --> 01:27:12,760
We have now reviewed every
volume in that series.

1630
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,800
We got a big fan on our Laura Haven review
team. That's a good place to be, uh,

1631
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:19,520
especially for this series, uh,
which, uh, she has really enjoyed.

1632
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,040
So go check out that review
again, links to the show notes.

1633
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:24,680
We've got more reviews
coming up and of course,

1634
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:28,680
more episodes in the Steve
saga next on fantastical truth.

1635
01:27:29,060 --> 01:27:31,280
The Steve saga continues.

1636
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:36,160
We're gonna go from spaceship superheroes
and a little steampunk to a spy

1637
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:39,000
thriller. Well, okay.
Maybe not a spy thriller,

1638
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:42,520
but we will have a certain secret
agent man arriving in the studio.

1639
01:27:42,990 --> 01:27:46,520
He's the one who's helped put together
a lot of your favorite books in both

1640
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:49,200
fantastical fiction,
as well as nonfiction.

1641
01:27:49,450 --> 01:27:53,840
He leads his own literary agency,
not so secret agency there.

1642
01:27:54,020 --> 01:27:56,720
And he is also the publisher
of enclave publishing.

1643
01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:00,360
Steve lobby will be our next
guest en fantastical truth.

1644
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,600
Meanwhile, whether you
enjoy the public library,

1645
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:07,720
whether you haven't been there in a
while, maybe you have, as Zach said,

1646
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:11,560
lots of great memories of finding
great books there just as I have.

1647
01:28:12,070 --> 01:28:15,080
I think that it's appropriate
to thank God for this resource,

1648
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:17,200
even in a world that has
been corrupted by sin,

1649
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:19,520
where there may be issues with
the library where you live.

1650
01:28:19,530 --> 01:28:24,240
We can appreciate faithful Christians
who find great stories in the library or

1651
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:25,760
create great stories on their own.

1652
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,920
As a Steve Raza has done that's
something for which we can.

1653
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:32,600
Thank God as we continue to seek
and find his fantastical truth.