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Cain cross once dreamed of helping make a

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dream worlds. Now their real world is being

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attacked by a mental pandemic.

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This 1 strikes as you sleep, sending its

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victims into dark tunnels of despair to fight

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for their waking lives.

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We seek a cure for the nightmare virus,

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the new Y

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sci fantasy thriller from Nadine brand.

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Speculative fiction like no other genre

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reflects the creativity of God.

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If you look at the scriptures, you're gonna

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have see that God uses

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imagination more than ration this discourse.

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We are supposed to be image bearer

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for a vastly creative God.

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Reading fantastical fiction opened a portal in my

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imagination for a place other than just a

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materialistic world.

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I experienced the gospel story with the mind

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of someone who loved adventure and loved the

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idea of light conquering darkness.

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We're wired for stories that reflect how we

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see the world in ways that are true.

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The story is... Either pointing to christ or

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it's pointing to our need for christ.

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Welcome to the waking world a fantastical truth,

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the podcast from a lord dot com in

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which we explore.

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Fantastical stories for god's glory. I meet Steven

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Burnett burnett publisher of Laura And author of

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a new science fiction adventure novel releasing next

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year from Enclave publishing, and I just got

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back from filmmakers, and so, I've only ever

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had good dreams since that conference.

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And I'm Zachary Russell, and I have this

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recurring dream that is the last day of

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college, Filmmakers and I completely forgot to attend

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that 1 class that I should have been

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studying for because now it's the final exam,

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and I have no idea what's happening,

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But thank goodness. I'm awake, and this is

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episode 222.

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What if you

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had to fight your own dreams.

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And yes, we will be talking to Nadine

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brand about her new book, the nightmare of

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virus, and I really hope we stay awake.

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I pinch myself a couple times. I got

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my coffee.

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His man, I do not wanna fall asleep

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while talking about nightmares that haunt you.

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I can fantastical utilize that trophy dream just

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a little bit zack by adding these words

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and then the Dragons attacked.

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Don't remember whether there are Dragons in nadine

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dean's book, but there is a ultra a

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lot of struggle. There's is a lot of

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difficulty in some of the emotions that you

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would associate with both nightmares and a pandemic,

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Very interesting though, I think to hear the

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origins of this story which we'll be doing

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in just a moment as soon as Nadine

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rolls into here.

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First off, however, we did just get back

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from filmmakers, and wow. What an event. We

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have the Lore Haven open world,

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awarded people who completed quests at that booth,

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and no rest for the weary. However, we're

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going ahead and preparing for the next rail

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conference in 20 25

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a bigger 1 this time crossover event and,

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hopefully then Lord Willing, we'll be having a

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bigger booth with more quests more prizes and

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oh,

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more books. Because while I'm working on my

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sci f novel, Mary and Jacobs is finishing

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her non fiction book about the difference between

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a occult magic and fictional magic,

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interesting

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contrast there then fantasy and sci, and we're

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gonna see both genres represented in this episode

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as as soon as Nadine gets here.

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Meanwhile, subscribe free at Lore Haven and join

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the Lore haven gil just because we don't

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have that booth open anymore at realm

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book exhibit.

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Doesn't mean you can't

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undergo these monthly book quests with the best

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Christian made fantastical novels in the Laurie Haven

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Guild I'll share more about that later. But

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you can also get reviews of the best

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Christian made fantastical novels at Laurie, including our

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review posted a few weeks ago advance review

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if of the nightmare virus.

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Speaking of which that is, of course, our

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top sponsor again, for this episode, the nightmare

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virus by Nadine brand is just released a

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few weeks ago, Tuesday before realm,

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some viruses go after the body, but the

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nightmare virus goes after the mind

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When dream technology goes wrong, the virus spreads

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across the globe, trapping people in a universal

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dreams scape, they call it the nightmare virus.

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Kane Cross is determined to find a cure.

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If he can decipher his brother's chicken scratch

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formula notes, but when he gets infected, he

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has only 22 days until he trapped in

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the mental prison forever.

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Now every time he falls asleep, he must

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fight in a nightmare arena until he earns

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his freedom to live in the new work

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that exists only in the mind.

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Then he finds a way to manipulate the

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nightmare to change it by mere thought.

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Forced to navigate a world of night beast

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full mis blades and half truths.

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Can turns his focus survival. Will he continue

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searching for a cure or will he swear

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allegiance to the nightmare? It's And the bigger

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question might be, will he even have a

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choice.

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This novel comes from Enclave escape the nightmare

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virus by award winning author and today's guest

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Nadine Brand

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available now wherever fantastic books are sold. You

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can order our online or ask for it

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that your favorite books seller or local library,

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Enclave Publishing is a division of Oasis family

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media, top sponsor, you can see that cool

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cover, get more info, including the purchase link

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in our show notes for episode 222.

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Or go to lord ham dot com slash

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podcast.

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From there, I hear some squeaky wheels and

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a very interesting structure rolling in, I'm going

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to open the bay doors to receive our

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guest.

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Nadine Brandi has just rolled into the studio

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in her tiny house on wheels.

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She has been known to do wildly things

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like doing that or writing a sleeper train

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across Russia in the name of book research.

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She is the 4 time Carol Award winning

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author of 7 young adult books and has

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been a professional fiction editor for over a

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decade.

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She is passionate about Jesus, motherhood and creating

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with the creator,

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But when she's not busy in inventing worlds

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and magic systems, she is venturing through Middle

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earth with her Aura husband and therefore. Half

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children and lately venturing into the Lori studios

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Nadine welcome for the first time. Thank you

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so much. I'm so excited to be here.

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Hey. Great. You have another fan of sleeper

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trains? I got to do 1 of those

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long time ago. So what what a cool

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experience? Very, very cool. Think the last time

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I rode a train was just some little

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tourist,

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affair either in the place I lived before

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or The place I live now or perhaps

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both. And nadine, I feel like you've been

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on the show before, but in fact, it

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was actually our interview a few years ago

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back when Lord Haven had a print ish

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you. So I've put that link at our

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show notes for that interview in 20 18,

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where you said a quote that turned out

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to be the headline you of the interview,

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quote, I process big questions through story in

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quote. So I'd like to start there

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with your origin story before we talk about

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your new novel, the nightmare virus, your origin

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story. How did you discover biblical truth and

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fantastic imagination

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at the same time in any particular order?

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How did that go for your backstory?

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Yeah. I'm probably

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the rare author who didn't plan to be

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an author. I love writing stories. I never

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thought about publishing. I never thought about

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writing books. I just had loved story all

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my life. And

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most of my life,

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I've been journal. And that is how I

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started writing my first stories.

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Just like that quote said, I processed big

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questions for story. And so I would do

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that in my journal, the the teenager as

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a young adult through college

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and eventually, when I wrote my debut novel,

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a time to die. I pulled so many

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different quotes or descriptions or themes from those

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journals that I'd written in, and they became

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a part of the story, again it wasn't

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until I finished writing that book that I

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thought, oh, I

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what about publishing? I guess that's the thing.

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Maybe I'll look into sharing the story

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with other readers and

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that's kind of when my brain made the

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shift from just

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writing stories because I enjoyed them or because

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they helped me wrap my mind around,

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bigger questions, whether it's about life or about

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faith or about my own personal journey that

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made the shift to actually writing fiction

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to share with other people.

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So tell me about these journals. I mean,

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were they just the standard

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mole scanner were they're the ones with, like,

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the lock and key, and then you gotta

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hide the key from your, you know, your

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siblings, to your parents or whatever was... That's

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you're not a journal. I think that there's

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a difference

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between the... Some of my kids have those.

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So

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It depends what age asking about.

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I I might... I lock and key all

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the teenage drama. Nobody waiting needs to read

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that.

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Yeah. You know, I I used to be

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a big journal or 2, but ever since

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I've had, you know, computers and and type

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everything.

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I actually find it much harder, but but

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kind of more

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satisfying to use a handwritten journal. I don't

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know if you found the same thing, but,

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I mean, my handwriting is atrocious. And so

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sometimes I'm like, Did I write this? Because

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I can't even read that and my kids

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make fun of me so like, yeah, don't

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you know good handwriting? We learn this at

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school?

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So I... Are you still a journal now

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even though you've you've had some books published?

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I am. I still journal by hand, and

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I think I'm mom, like, my 20 eighth

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or t journal or something like that. I

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don't journal quite as often,

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but I do still process big questions or

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big life changes and things like that, through

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journal

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and a lot of it goes hand in

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hand with prayer and talking to the Lord

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and as cheesy as it may sound. I

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think Christian authors get it that a lot

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of my inspiration comes from scripture or from

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you know, listening to a sermon or my

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time with the Lord, and that doesn't equal

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a cheesy Christian

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book, but it create the inspiration behind stories

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from, you know, the creator, the original

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inventor of story and imagination.

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Oh, there's so much I could say here

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about the implication that overt biblical themes equals

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cheesy. They do not I'm going to move

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along from that topic because it's probably another

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episode. Probably 1 we've already done 2 or

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3 times. But all this talk about journal

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always makes me feel a little guilty as

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if my journal, old journal is a sentient

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being that I surrendered probably back in 20

268
00:10:26,921 --> 00:10:29,234
14, 10 years ago, I will say the

269
00:10:29,234 --> 00:10:31,807
journalism at the time killed my journal

270
00:10:32,439 --> 00:10:34,836
It just wasn't enough time for more of

271
00:10:34,836 --> 00:10:37,393
a personal writing like that, and then I

272
00:10:37,393 --> 00:10:40,051
got into many other things once I changed

273
00:10:40,190 --> 00:10:43,079
jobs, I switch from the Handwritten journal to

274
00:10:43,079 --> 00:10:46,213
the digital journal, I think at age 18

275
00:10:46,511 --> 00:10:48,427
when I got a laptop, but I can

276
00:10:48,427 --> 00:10:51,235
certainly affirm this idea of sorting through the

277
00:10:51,235 --> 00:10:53,229
big questions out loud in writing. And yeah,

278
00:10:53,388 --> 00:10:55,302
I think in my case, like, J also

279
00:10:55,302 --> 00:10:55,701
could,

280
00:10:56,259 --> 00:10:59,211
become, an opportunity for rum dating. Whereas I

281
00:10:59,370 --> 00:11:02,513
I probably also found a lot more opportunities

282
00:11:02,730 --> 00:11:04,402
enjoying the stories by others,

283
00:11:05,358 --> 00:11:07,030
exploring some of these themes not just through

284
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:08,279
my own journey, but through

285
00:11:08,636 --> 00:11:11,727
character journeys. So, Nadine, I'm curious, what was

286
00:11:11,727 --> 00:11:13,946
the switch then? Do you think, like, the

287
00:11:13,946 --> 00:11:15,635
types of books that you enjoyed reading

288
00:11:16,023 --> 00:11:18,250
that may be Drew out into other worlds

289
00:11:18,250 --> 00:11:20,159
as well to the point where you even

290
00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:21,830
wanted to start creating your own with a

291
00:11:21,830 --> 00:11:22,386
time to die.

292
00:11:23,199 --> 00:11:25,836
Yeah. I am a cliche reader. I was

293
00:11:25,836 --> 00:11:28,394
inspired by all of the Harry Potter Hunger

294
00:11:28,394 --> 00:11:31,111
gave, like, the books that inspired everybody. I

295
00:11:31,111 --> 00:11:32,410
wish I had the

296
00:11:32,724 --> 00:11:35,039
1 off rare book that nobody has really

297
00:11:35,039 --> 00:11:36,715
heard of that changed my life. But no.

298
00:11:37,034 --> 00:11:38,333
I just so

299
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:42,553
appreciate. Yes. Very very much so. But the

300
00:11:42,553 --> 00:11:44,701
timing of those books were very important in

301
00:11:44,701 --> 00:11:46,530
my life. I read Harry Potter as they

302
00:11:46,530 --> 00:11:47,882
came out. I was the same age as

303
00:11:47,961 --> 00:11:50,603
Harry with each book that came out. And

304
00:11:50,603 --> 00:11:52,757
for me, I found a friend in that

305
00:11:52,757 --> 00:11:53,076
story.

306
00:11:53,794 --> 00:11:55,549
But there's a story in my life that

307
00:11:55,629 --> 00:11:56,906
I'm gonna share here if we have the

308
00:11:56,906 --> 00:11:59,786
time. When my parents had a rental house.

309
00:11:59,945 --> 00:12:01,615
And so we were living in this rental

310
00:12:01,615 --> 00:12:03,684
house, and there was a locked door in

311
00:12:03,684 --> 00:12:05,434
the basement of this house. And we were

312
00:12:05,434 --> 00:12:06,093
just told

313
00:12:06,403 --> 00:12:08,787
It's locked it belongs to the owners never

314
00:12:08,787 --> 00:12:10,218
go in there. Well, of course, me and

315
00:12:10,218 --> 00:12:13,397
my sibling or we invented all sorts of

316
00:12:13,397 --> 00:12:14,906
ideas what's behind the locked door.

317
00:12:15,479 --> 00:12:16,757
And 1 day,

318
00:12:17,396 --> 00:12:18,754
I was alone at home. I was a

319
00:12:18,754 --> 00:12:22,245
teenager, and I found a key on top

320
00:12:22,443 --> 00:12:23,478
of a door frame.

321
00:12:24,194 --> 00:12:26,343
I bet this go. Keep locked the door,

322
00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:29,128
and I... Emailed, do I wanna ruin that

323
00:12:29,128 --> 00:12:30,980
mystery and find just a room full of,

324
00:12:31,059 --> 00:12:32,500
you know, Dusty Furniture or something.

325
00:12:33,139 --> 00:12:35,220
Of course, I did. So I I went

326
00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:36,980
with the door, because I didn't tell anybody

327
00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:37,959
an inside

328
00:12:38,353 --> 00:12:40,744
floor to ceiling were stacks and stacks of

329
00:12:40,744 --> 00:12:43,214
books, like more books than I could count.

330
00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:45,046
Fiction, non fiction,

331
00:12:45,698 --> 00:12:48,164
all sorts of things. And so I, because

332
00:12:48,323 --> 00:12:50,312
I was I wasn't the best kid. I

333
00:12:50,312 --> 00:12:52,221
didn't tell anybody that I found the key.

334
00:12:52,714 --> 00:12:54,390
I would sneak in there, and I'd put

335
00:12:54,390 --> 00:12:56,066
a pillow under the door so nobody would

336
00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:57,582
know the light was on. And I would

337
00:12:57,582 --> 00:12:59,497
read books, and that was how I found

338
00:12:59,657 --> 00:13:02,307
Tolkien's book and I would sit there reading

339
00:13:02,307 --> 00:13:04,465
lord of the rings. And so I had

340
00:13:04,465 --> 00:13:05,284
this magical

341
00:13:05,663 --> 00:13:08,560
secret room of book that got me

342
00:13:08,953 --> 00:13:09,453
reading

343
00:13:09,908 --> 00:13:12,216
beyond Harry Potter and beyond just the typical

344
00:13:12,216 --> 00:13:15,081
things that I was encountering at school, and

345
00:13:15,081 --> 00:13:17,070
it created a love for reading, but also

346
00:13:17,070 --> 00:13:20,501
a desire to share that magic of finding

347
00:13:20,501 --> 00:13:22,248
a story that felt like it was just

348
00:13:22,248 --> 00:13:25,955
for me. That is absolutely spectacular, and it

349
00:13:26,074 --> 00:13:28,144
sounds like 2 90 you were reading across

350
00:13:28,144 --> 00:13:31,967
multiple genres are alaska guest Jerry Jenkins who's

351
00:13:31,967 --> 00:13:34,649
written, I think maybe 200 books by now

352
00:13:34,848 --> 00:13:37,951
has written all across these genres, sports bag,

353
00:13:38,349 --> 00:13:39,088
ministry biography,

354
00:13:39,702 --> 00:13:43,441
in times thriller, contemporary romance historical just everywhere.

355
00:13:44,091 --> 00:13:47,104
And Too have also written in, historical fantasy,

356
00:13:47,421 --> 00:13:49,641
dystopian Sci, and then the book will talk

357
00:13:49,641 --> 00:13:51,068
about next nightmare virus.

358
00:13:51,877 --> 00:13:53,467
Kind of a combination of some of these,

359
00:13:54,501 --> 00:13:56,886
what leads to your interest in these different

360
00:13:56,886 --> 00:13:59,033
types of genres, although, as far as I

361
00:13:59,033 --> 00:14:01,154
can tell, they're always under the label fantastic

362
00:14:01,274 --> 00:14:01,513
to?

363
00:14:02,149 --> 00:14:03,285
Yeah. I

364
00:14:03,978 --> 00:14:06,047
I follow the story. The next story that

365
00:14:06,047 --> 00:14:07,240
comes into my head is the 1 that

366
00:14:07,319 --> 00:14:10,202
I wanna write and I was told after,

367
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:12,434
the out of time series since they were

368
00:14:12,434 --> 00:14:15,223
dystopian, I moved on to a different publisher

369
00:14:15,223 --> 00:14:18,210
after that series, And that publisher, Thomas Nelson

370
00:14:18,428 --> 00:14:20,502
said, well, you need to stick with that

371
00:14:20,502 --> 00:14:22,974
genre, you're gonna lose your readers if you

372
00:14:22,974 --> 00:14:24,649
hop a genres. But I thought, well, I

373
00:14:24,649 --> 00:14:26,106
don't I don't have a story

374
00:14:26,418 --> 00:14:28,803
in that genre. The only stories I have

375
00:14:28,803 --> 00:14:31,107
are these historical fantasies would you like them?

376
00:14:31,584 --> 00:14:33,412
So they took a gamble on me, but

377
00:14:33,412 --> 00:14:35,664
that put in my head, oh, it's maybe

378
00:14:35,664 --> 00:14:38,304
not standard for an author to jump genres.

379
00:14:38,945 --> 00:14:41,240
And I think it's a little bit more

380
00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:43,911
relax nowadays, more authors are realizing that the

381
00:14:43,911 --> 00:14:45,586
readers aren't going to abandon them.

382
00:14:46,303 --> 00:14:48,776
But for me, it was... I don't wanna

383
00:14:48,776 --> 00:14:50,552
force a story in a genre

384
00:14:51,183 --> 00:14:53,334
Jeff, for the sake of Genre, I'm going

385
00:14:53,334 --> 00:14:54,928
to write the stories that I'm excited to

386
00:14:54,928 --> 00:14:57,318
write, and I really get stories kind of

387
00:14:57,318 --> 00:14:59,410
1 at a time. So I can't count

388
00:14:59,410 --> 00:15:01,889
that I'm gonna have another story after the

389
00:15:01,889 --> 00:15:03,570
only 1 that's in my head. I've gotta

390
00:15:03,570 --> 00:15:05,090
write it and then see what comes next.

391
00:15:05,664 --> 00:15:08,614
And thankfully, I've had publishers who are willing

392
00:15:08,614 --> 00:15:11,347
to let me try genre hopping and

393
00:15:12,043 --> 00:15:12,521
it's worked.

394
00:15:13,159 --> 00:15:15,486
And and the books You know, my readers

395
00:15:15,486 --> 00:15:17,400
don't mind. My readers don't mind and my

396
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,872
publishers have been very supportive in that. It

397
00:15:20,032 --> 00:15:22,344
Genre hopping, though. When we have the nightmare

398
00:15:22,344 --> 00:15:24,592
virus coming out list at the Lord Haven

399
00:15:24,592 --> 00:15:27,304
library, we have 3 overall genre categories,

400
00:15:27,782 --> 00:15:30,436
fantasy, science fiction and supernatural,

401
00:15:31,053 --> 00:15:33,387
which can also include horror, paranormal,

402
00:15:34,177 --> 00:15:36,482
just a contemporary story with some sort of

403
00:15:36,482 --> 00:15:39,661
strong miraculous element there. It was difficult to

404
00:15:39,661 --> 00:15:42,284
just add a check to the nightmare virus

405
00:15:42,284 --> 00:15:44,133
because it's got sci f, but then once

406
00:15:44,133 --> 00:15:46,211
you're in the nightmare world, it's a little

407
00:15:46,211 --> 00:15:50,047
bit more fan fantasy proper in there, fantasy

408
00:15:50,047 --> 00:15:52,045
creatures and magic and lightning bolts and all

409
00:15:52,045 --> 00:15:53,738
of these things, So I think a lot

410
00:15:53,738 --> 00:15:56,056
of readers maybe are more forgiving because they

411
00:15:56,056 --> 00:15:59,173
realize that everything is under that label fantastical.

412
00:15:59,333 --> 00:16:01,890
The genre to me, the overarching genre seems

413
00:16:01,890 --> 00:16:02,550
to be

414
00:16:03,023 --> 00:16:05,096
fantastical or speculative whatever whatever you call it?

415
00:16:05,733 --> 00:16:08,444
Yes. I agree. And we as the authors

416
00:16:08,444 --> 00:16:09,959
see it that way, and I do believe

417
00:16:09,959 --> 00:16:11,570
our readers see it that way, but... Every

418
00:16:11,570 --> 00:16:13,570
publisher sees it that way. So depending on

419
00:16:13,570 --> 00:16:15,970
who you're talking to, it is Genre Hopping

420
00:16:15,970 --> 00:16:18,210
or it's not. Yeah. Well, you're on social

421
00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:19,490
media a lot, so you can...

422
00:16:20,542 --> 00:16:22,613
Communicate to your readers why you're doing this

423
00:16:22,613 --> 00:16:25,083
new genre compared to other ones, and so

424
00:16:25,083 --> 00:16:27,234
they can... Oh, okay. That makes sense. And

425
00:16:27,234 --> 00:16:30,035
then being accessible like that helps make sense

426
00:16:30,035 --> 00:16:31,385
that. But I wanna go back to the

427
00:16:31,385 --> 00:16:33,848
secret room of books? My goodness, what an

428
00:16:33,848 --> 00:16:34,348
amazing

429
00:16:34,801 --> 00:16:36,152
discovery is a kid?

430
00:16:36,723 --> 00:16:38,633
And I wanna know did you ever get

431
00:16:38,633 --> 00:16:40,939
caught. I didn't get caught, but I did

432
00:16:40,939 --> 00:16:43,485
confess after we moved. Twice been never started.

433
00:16:46,539 --> 00:16:48,860
Okay. Yeah because I was afraid if I

434
00:16:48,860 --> 00:16:50,539
if I say, hey. I opened up the

435
00:16:50,539 --> 00:16:52,620
door, then I'd be told not to go

436
00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:55,026
in again. Or my siblings would wrap me

437
00:16:55,026 --> 00:16:57,493
out, you know, I had to guard, I

438
00:16:57,493 --> 00:16:59,085
would like a dragon, and that was my

439
00:16:59,085 --> 00:17:01,649
treasure... You kept the secret from your... Siblings

440
00:17:01,649 --> 00:17:03,490
as well as your parents that's quite an

441
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:06,049
accomplishment. I mean. I... I'm just struggling to

442
00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:07,410
think like, if I was the parent in

443
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:09,410
that situation like, what I tell my kid

444
00:17:09,410 --> 00:17:11,418
op stop reading those books. What are you

445
00:17:11,418 --> 00:17:13,491
doing? That's so silly... I mean, I would

446
00:17:13,491 --> 00:17:16,042
be, like, so secretly proud, like, you know,

447
00:17:16,201 --> 00:17:18,607
just don't get caught again or whatever, But

448
00:17:18,766 --> 00:17:20,674
I'm sitting here wondering like, do my kids

449
00:17:20,674 --> 00:17:23,377
sneak into my study and grab a book

450
00:17:23,377 --> 00:17:25,524
off the books shelf and then read it

451
00:17:25,524 --> 00:17:27,884
while I'm not here or something, and then

452
00:17:28,083 --> 00:17:30,388
put it back in exactly the same spot.

453
00:17:30,547 --> 00:17:31,660
And I wonder if I should set, like,

454
00:17:31,819 --> 00:17:33,590
little traps to see if they

455
00:17:34,283 --> 00:17:37,394
if they're reading books. Yeah. Exactly. Hey, Nadine,

456
00:17:37,632 --> 00:17:40,171
I'd like you to edit this opening sentence

457
00:17:40,171 --> 00:17:42,631
for possibly the way I'll promote this episode

458
00:17:42,631 --> 00:17:46,241
on? Social media, 1 warm night nadine broke

459
00:17:46,241 --> 00:17:47,520
into the restricted section.

460
00:17:50,397 --> 00:17:52,235
Well, Why I was there... 1 something...

461
00:17:52,729 --> 00:17:53,765
Not warm. 1.

462
00:17:54,722 --> 00:17:56,955
1 warm doesn't work. Yeah. It kinda starts

463
00:17:56,955 --> 00:17:59,108
with that same consonant. So... Okay. So those

464
00:17:59,108 --> 00:18:02,472
first 3 words need some work. But, you

465
00:18:02,472 --> 00:18:04,546
breaking into the restriction section. Is, I I

466
00:18:04,546 --> 00:18:06,300
think it's a pretty good hook. And obviously,

467
00:18:06,699 --> 00:18:09,251
despite the sin that was involved there that

468
00:18:09,251 --> 00:18:11,166
needed confession later. It led to some good

469
00:18:11,166 --> 00:18:11,325
things.

470
00:18:12,298 --> 00:18:14,532
And so finding that light in the midst

471
00:18:14,532 --> 00:18:16,846
of darkness, of finding that good at coming

472
00:18:16,846 --> 00:18:18,841
out of bad choices. It's something that our

473
00:18:18,841 --> 00:18:19,160
author.

474
00:18:19,892 --> 00:18:21,643
Is extremely skilled at doing.

475
00:18:22,597 --> 00:18:24,985
Speaking of authors, though, let's go to our

476
00:18:24,985 --> 00:18:28,406
second sponsor author Jamie Foley, who also has

477
00:18:28,406 --> 00:18:30,259
a book. Coming out. I think this 1

478
00:18:30,259 --> 00:18:31,940
is clearly labeled the fantasy.

479
00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:34,119
It is book 3 in the Cat

480
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:35,799
revolution series

481
00:18:36,355 --> 00:18:38,994
imagine being able to read game of thrones

482
00:18:38,994 --> 00:18:41,394
without the guilt, not everyone has to die.

483
00:18:41,875 --> 00:18:45,405
In this epic fantasy quart, The elemental have

484
00:18:45,405 --> 00:18:48,516
decided their gods, and humans are fuel for

485
00:18:48,516 --> 00:18:49,234
their fire.

486
00:18:49,792 --> 00:18:50,531
The cat

487
00:18:51,068 --> 00:18:53,780
revolution series began with book 1 Amber hawk.

488
00:18:54,515 --> 00:18:57,654
Forward reviews gave this fantasy novel 5 stars

489
00:18:57,795 --> 00:19:00,515
and described it as a heartfelt fantasy whose

490
00:19:00,515 --> 00:19:03,174
ting of darkness don't threaten the end enduring

491
00:19:03,649 --> 00:19:04,524
ship at its core.

492
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,467
Book 2 Silver blood was the winner of

493
00:19:07,467 --> 00:19:10,353
the 20 22 Realm award for Christian Fantasy

494
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:13,137
ship and the highly anticipated book 3 Lotus

495
00:19:13,217 --> 00:19:16,806
Fall releases August 13, watch for the cover

496
00:19:16,806 --> 00:19:19,677
reveal from Author Jamie Foley on Wednesday, July

497
00:19:19,677 --> 00:19:20,177
17

498
00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:22,809
Before then you can visit amber hoc dot

499
00:19:22,809 --> 00:19:25,369
com or your local bookstore to get yourself

500
00:19:25,369 --> 00:19:28,029
a hard cover, paper back, ebook or audiobook.

501
00:19:28,583 --> 00:19:30,970
Or pre ordered directly from the publisher at

502
00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:33,118
faye press dot com to get a signed

503
00:19:33,118 --> 00:19:36,062
copy and some super sweet swag that website

504
00:19:36,062 --> 00:19:37,017
is amber hawk.

505
00:19:37,829 --> 00:19:40,150
Dot com spelled like it sounds. You can

506
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:42,309
also get the links and see the previous

507
00:19:42,309 --> 00:19:45,325
covers in our show notes for episode 222

508
00:19:45,523 --> 00:19:47,930
or at laura haven dot com slash podcast.

509
00:19:48,702 --> 00:19:51,880
Alright, Nadine, new book from you already out

510
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,720
so. We just had party about it at

511
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,097
the Realm maker's conference chapter 2,

512
00:19:57,048 --> 00:19:59,424
everyone has dreams, but no 1 programs them.

513
00:19:59,662 --> 00:20:02,381
It's so irritating. The dreams are almost like

514
00:20:02,381 --> 00:20:03,995
this generative content

515
00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:06,916
based on the text and image predictions drawn

516
00:20:06,916 --> 00:20:08,928
from real life and who knows where

517
00:20:09,636 --> 00:20:12,660
they jumbled together, they look strange. Sometimes people

518
00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:14,888
have 6 fingers on their left hand. But

519
00:20:14,888 --> 00:20:17,275
in this case, something different is done with

520
00:20:17,275 --> 00:20:19,602
dreams in the world of a nightmare virus.

521
00:20:19,841 --> 00:20:22,097
I'm curious what images or themes,

522
00:20:22,795 --> 00:20:25,669
or ideas came together to help create the

523
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:27,185
origin for this new novel.

524
00:20:27,837 --> 00:20:29,054
Well, themes

525
00:20:29,508 --> 00:20:31,894
are a big part of how I come

526
00:20:31,894 --> 00:20:34,997
up with my story ideas. And this 1

527
00:20:34,997 --> 00:20:36,325
was very much

528
00:20:36,682 --> 00:20:37,660
related to

529
00:20:38,115 --> 00:20:39,944
what I'm gonna say it's probably gonna sound

530
00:20:39,944 --> 00:20:41,536
very easy, but I know that I can

531
00:20:41,536 --> 00:20:42,968
say it here and people won't take it

532
00:20:42,968 --> 00:20:43,286
that way.

533
00:20:43,938 --> 00:20:46,484
I was thinking about how we have this

534
00:20:46,484 --> 00:20:48,633
relationship with Christ. We have this answer to

535
00:20:48,633 --> 00:20:51,202
what happens at the end of life and

536
00:20:51,434 --> 00:20:53,051
We have the hope. We have the gospel

537
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:55,504
and Jesus gave us that answer, and how

538
00:20:55,504 --> 00:20:58,217
are we treating it as if our time

539
00:20:58,217 --> 00:20:59,015
is very short.

540
00:20:59,666 --> 00:21:01,492
You'll see a theme through my books with

541
00:21:01,492 --> 00:21:04,192
my first trilogy, a time to die, and

542
00:21:04,192 --> 00:21:06,416
the out of time series is very focused

543
00:21:06,416 --> 00:21:07,686
on what do we do with the time

544
00:21:07,686 --> 00:21:08,242
that we have.

545
00:21:08,893 --> 00:21:12,240
And this book was my next idea after

546
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,072
that series. And so it was still in

547
00:21:14,072 --> 00:21:15,927
that thought process of

548
00:21:16,637 --> 00:21:18,711
how are we viewing the time that we

549
00:21:18,711 --> 00:21:21,582
have. Our days are numbered. And as a

550
00:21:21,582 --> 00:21:23,815
team, as a young adult, it feels like

551
00:21:23,815 --> 00:21:24,634
we have forever,

552
00:21:25,171 --> 00:21:27,105
but we don't know the time that we

553
00:21:27,105 --> 00:21:29,184
have. And so that translate... You know, that

554
00:21:29,184 --> 00:21:30,625
was a big thought for me, and I

555
00:21:30,625 --> 00:21:33,105
was processing it through story, what if we

556
00:21:33,105 --> 00:21:36,495
were put into another world or another reality

557
00:21:36,711 --> 00:21:38,325
where time is literally

558
00:21:38,779 --> 00:21:41,188
so much shorter and the nightmare world

559
00:21:41,802 --> 00:21:43,810
is much shorter. You know, there's kind of

560
00:21:43,810 --> 00:21:46,203
the the map of the time, how does

561
00:21:46,203 --> 00:21:48,356
time work differently in the nightmare versus in

562
00:21:48,356 --> 00:21:50,510
real life. And if we were in a

563
00:21:50,510 --> 00:21:52,240
world where we knew that we really only

564
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,586
have a couple years left, but we also

565
00:21:54,586 --> 00:21:56,654
have the answer to how to survive that

566
00:21:56,654 --> 00:21:58,563
world. We have the knowledge of the cure.

567
00:21:59,613 --> 00:22:00,591
How would we

568
00:22:01,047 --> 00:22:03,198
interact with our fellow man? How would we

569
00:22:03,198 --> 00:22:05,429
interact with world, that the world, How would

570
00:22:05,429 --> 00:22:07,518
that change our thinking? And that was the

571
00:22:07,518 --> 00:22:09,516
big concept, the big theme that sparked the

572
00:22:09,516 --> 00:22:11,753
idea for the nightmare virus. So tell me

573
00:22:11,753 --> 00:22:14,070
about this dream technology that's in the story.

574
00:22:14,882 --> 00:22:16,632
Well, I couldn't tell you how it works.

575
00:22:16,791 --> 00:22:17,768
That's proprietary,

576
00:22:18,144 --> 00:22:18,621
obviously.

577
00:22:19,258 --> 00:22:21,508
But it's very similar to

578
00:22:22,042 --> 00:22:23,258
inception where

579
00:22:23,809 --> 00:22:25,963
you can enter a dream, it started out

580
00:22:25,963 --> 00:22:28,517
as a, you know, a commodity that people

581
00:22:28,517 --> 00:22:30,672
wanted to purchase entering a dream for 1

582
00:22:30,672 --> 00:22:34,039
reason or another a different dreams for celebration

583
00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:36,674
or just for adventure or things like that

584
00:22:36,674 --> 00:22:39,947
and something went wrong. And then now the

585
00:22:39,947 --> 00:22:40,585
entire world,

586
00:22:41,399 --> 00:22:43,319
every time they fall asleep once they're infected,

587
00:22:43,399 --> 00:22:46,380
they enter into a dreams scape that

588
00:22:46,839 --> 00:22:48,613
everybody goes into the same 1, it not

589
00:22:48,613 --> 00:22:50,761
all these separate ones. It is just like

590
00:22:50,761 --> 00:22:52,056
a an alternate

591
00:22:52,511 --> 00:22:55,215
universe, and they can't figure out why that

592
00:22:55,215 --> 00:22:58,253
happened happening or who created it or what

593
00:22:58,253 --> 00:23:00,561
went wrong to make this happen, and that's

594
00:23:00,561 --> 00:23:02,311
what the main character is trying to solve.

595
00:23:02,883 --> 00:23:05,029
But you came up with this idea before

596
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:07,574
we had a different kind of pandemic and

597
00:23:07,574 --> 00:23:09,243
lockdown downs and all of that about 4

598
00:23:09,243 --> 00:23:11,326
years ago that I hear that right. Yes.

599
00:23:11,645 --> 00:23:13,816
I had the idea for this book in

600
00:23:13,873 --> 00:23:15,647
20 15. So

601
00:23:16,022 --> 00:23:18,171
loud and clear. This is not a Covid

602
00:23:18,171 --> 00:23:21,602
book it never was. When when Covid happened,

603
00:23:22,317 --> 00:23:24,143
I I thought, well, now I'll never get

604
00:23:24,143 --> 00:23:26,708
to write that book. Everyone's going to think

605
00:23:26,939 --> 00:23:29,836
it arose from the pandemic or,

606
00:23:30,614 --> 00:23:32,292
I just figured no publishers is going to

607
00:23:32,292 --> 00:23:33,032
want this

608
00:23:33,411 --> 00:23:35,659
because it's to close to home or it

609
00:23:35,659 --> 00:23:37,969
sounds too similar or it's bark dread in

610
00:23:37,969 --> 00:23:39,642
the readers, you know, even this the word

611
00:23:39,642 --> 00:23:41,872
virus is on the cover. And we've really

612
00:23:41,872 --> 00:23:43,226
tried to think of. Is there a different

613
00:23:43,226 --> 00:23:45,413
title that gonna work better, and there isn't

614
00:23:45,470 --> 00:23:47,459
that was just the best title for this

615
00:23:47,459 --> 00:23:47,778
story.

616
00:23:48,335 --> 00:23:50,824
So no. I had the idea par.

617
00:23:51,535 --> 00:23:53,934
No, it's not so much AAA

618
00:23:53,934 --> 00:23:56,255
virus so so much as a an infection

619
00:23:56,255 --> 00:23:58,575
in the mind. It's not so much the

620
00:23:58,575 --> 00:24:01,863
body. But the imagination that is being held

621
00:24:01,863 --> 00:24:04,178
captive to these dark images. And I think

622
00:24:04,178 --> 00:24:06,652
that that actually is a far more meta

623
00:24:06,652 --> 00:24:09,218
an observation about what a lot of people

624
00:24:09,218 --> 00:24:11,607
went through during lockdown downs and all the

625
00:24:11,607 --> 00:24:13,677
all the mess of it is a lot

626
00:24:13,677 --> 00:24:16,066
of these these haunting of doom.

627
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:19,586
That people had, and the despair, and the

628
00:24:19,586 --> 00:24:21,338
fear of death, I know, there we go

629
00:24:21,338 --> 00:24:23,171
again with the, teach teachers to number our

630
00:24:23,171 --> 00:24:24,604
days, You know, there's a time to die

631
00:24:24,604 --> 00:24:25,401
in a time to live,

632
00:24:26,451 --> 00:24:28,065
type thinking there from ec,

633
00:24:28,441 --> 00:24:30,351
but to remix that again and then to

634
00:24:30,351 --> 00:24:32,181
maybe explore that in different way, I think

635
00:24:32,181 --> 00:24:33,216
can only be helpful.

636
00:24:33,787 --> 00:24:35,239
Like people were doing

637
00:24:35,612 --> 00:24:37,596
during the lockdown. There was a lot of

638
00:24:37,596 --> 00:24:39,182
harm done for sure, but there was also,

639
00:24:39,341 --> 00:24:40,928
you know, what men meant for evil god

640
00:24:40,928 --> 00:24:43,090
meant for good. And I see that so

641
00:24:43,090 --> 00:24:43,909
many people

642
00:24:44,445 --> 00:24:48,511
becoming aware of the temporal nature of life

643
00:24:48,511 --> 00:24:50,859
and the the flaws of the medical establishment

644
00:24:50,995 --> 00:24:53,620
and and governments and all of this. People

645
00:24:53,620 --> 00:24:55,768
were being led to question what they I

646
00:24:55,768 --> 00:24:57,041
thought was solid and forever.

647
00:24:57,614 --> 00:24:59,532
And then they were drawn to realizing, no,

648
00:24:59,692 --> 00:25:01,450
there really is evil in the world. And

649
00:25:01,450 --> 00:25:02,968
after they realized it's Evil in the world,

650
00:25:03,127 --> 00:25:04,885
they realize well, then that means there must

651
00:25:04,885 --> 00:25:06,895
be a god. And a lot of people

652
00:25:06,895 --> 00:25:09,604
now are reading scripture, I'm being drawn not

653
00:25:09,604 --> 00:25:12,393
just too vague dia, but specifically to Jesus

654
00:25:12,393 --> 00:25:15,107
and the gospel. Through this exact blend of

655
00:25:15,107 --> 00:25:17,009
appeal to their heads and appeal to their

656
00:25:17,009 --> 00:25:18,673
hearts. And so we got little bits of

657
00:25:18,673 --> 00:25:21,069
revival going on. And I think that more

658
00:25:21,069 --> 00:25:22,906
stories like this, although they're not meant to

659
00:25:22,906 --> 00:25:24,584
just get people saved. You know, they're not

660
00:25:24,584 --> 00:25:25,883
just evan

661
00:25:26,262 --> 00:25:27,560
tools, you know, wedge

662
00:25:28,033 --> 00:25:29,228
it's more about

663
00:25:29,785 --> 00:25:32,810
ba the imagination to start thinking in these

664
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:35,517
terms of light and darkness and dreams and

665
00:25:35,517 --> 00:25:37,688
nightmares. And then maybe even this theme from

666
00:25:37,688 --> 00:25:40,106
the beginning where you have people

667
00:25:41,124 --> 00:25:44,161
arranging their dreams and was escaping into this

668
00:25:44,161 --> 00:25:45,934
dream world and then the dream becomes a

669
00:25:45,934 --> 00:25:48,755
nightmare from which you must flee. I'm really

670
00:25:48,894 --> 00:25:50,494
appreciating that. And we just by the way

671
00:25:50,654 --> 00:25:51,934
Laura haven, we just had a review of

672
00:25:51,934 --> 00:25:54,423
the nightmare virus. I would dream Has and

673
00:25:54,423 --> 00:25:55,615
dimension that will have that link in the

674
00:25:55,615 --> 00:25:56,409
show notes as well.

675
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,768
What has been the reaction so far

676
00:26:00,221 --> 00:26:02,286
from people who have been blessed enough to

677
00:26:02,286 --> 00:26:04,208
get an early peak at the nightmare virus,

678
00:26:04,447 --> 00:26:05,639
and it's okay for you to say because

679
00:26:05,719 --> 00:26:06,673
I just asked you about it.

680
00:26:07,944 --> 00:26:10,329
I've been really pleased with the early reactions.

681
00:26:10,647 --> 00:26:13,772
I I was wary at first because this

682
00:26:13,772 --> 00:26:15,767
is a very different book than my other

683
00:26:15,767 --> 00:26:18,501
books, and I said that a lot, and

684
00:26:19,449 --> 00:26:22,384
readers are either going to lean into that

685
00:26:22,384 --> 00:26:24,367
and like it or they're going to resist

686
00:26:24,367 --> 00:26:26,686
it. And it has a very different tone

687
00:26:26,686 --> 00:26:28,360
to it. Just... There's so much about this

688
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,114
book that is different and difference either good

689
00:26:30,114 --> 00:26:32,106
or bad to the reader depending on their

690
00:26:32,106 --> 00:26:34,905
taste. And all different almost all of the

691
00:26:34,905 --> 00:26:36,887
early feedback that I've gotten has been very,

692
00:26:37,046 --> 00:26:39,028
very positive. A lot of people have said

693
00:26:39,028 --> 00:26:40,297
that it's my best book yet,

694
00:26:41,010 --> 00:26:41,510
which

695
00:26:41,818 --> 00:26:44,284
is blowing me away. I'm very... I'm thrilled

696
00:26:44,284 --> 00:26:46,113
that they feel that way, I think that

697
00:26:46,113 --> 00:26:47,964
they're connecting with the heart of the book

698
00:26:48,101 --> 00:26:49,953
as I hope. And as I had prayed

699
00:26:50,183 --> 00:26:50,683
and,

700
00:26:51,535 --> 00:26:52,012
also,

701
00:26:52,410 --> 00:26:54,556
I'm really proud of this. A lot of

702
00:26:54,556 --> 00:26:56,226
people have said that they're hooked from the

703
00:26:56,226 --> 00:26:59,009
beginning, which I'm notorious for having slow beginning

704
00:26:59,009 --> 00:27:01,331
in my book. Flow doesn't mean bad. It's

705
00:27:01,331 --> 00:27:03,719
just a different type of story. And most

706
00:27:03,719 --> 00:27:06,425
of my readers, they know. Okay. I'll commit

707
00:27:06,425 --> 00:27:08,415
through a slower beginning and it'll ease into

708
00:27:08,415 --> 00:27:10,978
a bigger story. But this 1, I think

709
00:27:10,978 --> 00:27:13,287
has my best intro the best book. All

710
00:27:13,287 --> 00:27:15,278
of the things that I I hope to

711
00:27:15,278 --> 00:27:17,030
do in a book someday, it just didn't

712
00:27:17,030 --> 00:27:19,668
fit in my other book. So I've been

713
00:27:19,668 --> 00:27:23,241
really encouraged. So the virus in this story

714
00:27:23,241 --> 00:27:25,781
sounds kind of like a computer virus, but

715
00:27:25,781 --> 00:27:27,234
but sort of like a

716
00:27:27,944 --> 00:27:30,281
spiritual or a, like a psychological

717
00:27:30,740 --> 00:27:32,838
virus rather than like a biological

718
00:27:33,377 --> 00:27:34,975
virus, so I getting that right. So more

719
00:27:34,975 --> 00:27:37,302
like a a brain worm. I guess there's

720
00:27:37,302 --> 00:27:39,533
another term for it. Maybe you don't wanna

721
00:27:39,533 --> 00:27:40,808
go with that because that's kind of a

722
00:27:40,808 --> 00:27:43,357
weird picture, but then there's a cure that

723
00:27:43,357 --> 00:27:45,682
they're trying to find. So... And I'm I'm

724
00:27:45,682 --> 00:27:48,147
assuming that that is also not just like,

725
00:27:48,226 --> 00:27:50,293
you know, a shot or a pill or

726
00:27:50,293 --> 00:27:52,519
or something medical, but it... It's some other

727
00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:53,633
kind of care. Now. I'm sure you don't

728
00:27:53,633 --> 00:27:54,507
wanna give spoilers.

729
00:27:55,635 --> 00:27:57,486
But can you tell us more about

730
00:27:57,940 --> 00:28:00,721
what that search is like to find a

731
00:28:00,721 --> 00:28:03,026
cure to find some kind of solution to

732
00:28:03,026 --> 00:28:03,661
this nightmare?

733
00:28:04,472 --> 00:28:06,702
Yeah. So the main character and his brother

734
00:28:06,702 --> 00:28:08,374
are the ones trying to find a cure.

735
00:28:08,693 --> 00:28:10,524
They wanted to be drafts men which are

736
00:28:10,524 --> 00:28:13,007
people who make the dreams sc and So

737
00:28:13,007 --> 00:28:15,233
they've kind of been immersed in that world

738
00:28:15,233 --> 00:28:17,061
and when the virus when the nightmare my

739
00:28:17,061 --> 00:28:19,866
virus comes, they're trying to find a cure

740
00:28:20,002 --> 00:28:21,694
using the knowledge they've had

741
00:28:22,164 --> 00:28:24,875
of the blend of imagination and being able

742
00:28:24,875 --> 00:28:27,827
to program that. And there are specifics that

743
00:28:27,827 --> 00:28:29,980
are left vague and left to the imagination,

744
00:28:30,299 --> 00:28:33,343
but they are following what they know and

745
00:28:33,343 --> 00:28:35,732
the more they interact with the nightmare every

746
00:28:35,732 --> 00:28:37,325
time they enter into it when they fall

747
00:28:37,325 --> 00:28:40,351
asleep, they're learning... Oh, wait, this broke some

748
00:28:40,351 --> 00:28:42,197
rules. From what I knew. So how does

749
00:28:42,197 --> 00:28:44,107
that change how we find a cure? And

750
00:28:44,107 --> 00:28:45,858
then next time they go in? Well this

751
00:28:45,858 --> 00:28:47,609
breaks rule that we knew to? So what

752
00:28:47,609 --> 00:28:49,238
does that mean So

753
00:28:49,773 --> 00:28:51,841
they're not just trying to find a cure,

754
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,410
but they're also trying to even understand

755
00:28:54,865 --> 00:28:57,983
that nightmare world that they're in because They're

756
00:28:57,983 --> 00:28:59,819
trying to cure something that seems to be

757
00:28:59,819 --> 00:29:02,771
changing or inconsistent. They don't necessarily know what

758
00:29:02,771 --> 00:29:06,078
the exact problem is to cure it. And

759
00:29:06,134 --> 00:29:09,471
that's an internal and external journey of itself.

760
00:29:09,948 --> 00:29:11,855
And did you ever have a dream or

761
00:29:11,855 --> 00:29:12,412
a nightmare?

762
00:29:12,903 --> 00:29:15,290
That found its way into this book that

763
00:29:15,290 --> 00:29:16,562
you were inspired by?

764
00:29:18,074 --> 00:29:19,720
No. But I will

765
00:29:20,077 --> 00:29:22,064
kinda go further with that, I used to

766
00:29:22,064 --> 00:29:24,607
have chronic nightmares for years and years in

767
00:29:24,607 --> 00:29:27,174
my yam adult years. Very, very vivid

768
00:29:27,643 --> 00:29:30,343
multiple times a night, lots of different ones,

769
00:29:30,502 --> 00:29:32,487
it was different every time. You know, no

770
00:29:32,487 --> 00:29:34,552
matter how much I prayed, they wouldn't go

771
00:29:34,552 --> 00:29:35,529
away and

772
00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:37,990
through those years of process and growing the

773
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:40,778
the lord? I started learning. Okay. Well what

774
00:29:40,778 --> 00:29:42,053
does it mean to trust the lord when

775
00:29:42,053 --> 00:29:44,045
he still allows my imagination to go to

776
00:29:44,045 --> 00:29:44,921
these dark places?

777
00:29:45,651 --> 00:29:47,949
Outside of my will. That was an interesting

778
00:29:47,949 --> 00:29:50,088
journey of faith, and I'm very thankful for

779
00:29:50,088 --> 00:29:51,910
it even though it wasn't wasn't at the

780
00:29:51,910 --> 00:29:52,148
time.

781
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:54,954
But learning, well, how do I fight these?

782
00:29:55,194 --> 00:29:57,668
How do I combat them through faith when

783
00:29:57,668 --> 00:30:00,143
they're still happening? I'm not necessarily defeating them,

784
00:30:00,302 --> 00:30:01,420
but I'm still in a battle.

785
00:30:01,912 --> 00:30:03,738
And a lot of that carried over into

786
00:30:03,738 --> 00:30:06,199
the story, those themes carried over into the

787
00:30:06,199 --> 00:30:08,500
story, but I didn't necessarily put exact dreams

788
00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:10,247
or nightmares that I've had into it.

789
00:30:11,055 --> 00:30:13,039
Yeah. I I like that whole question of,

790
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:14,468
like, how do I trust the Lord in

791
00:30:14,468 --> 00:30:16,769
the dream, you know, that's something I've thought

792
00:30:16,769 --> 00:30:19,565
a lot about. By definition you're unconscious. Right?

793
00:30:19,724 --> 00:30:21,005
So you're you're not awake,

794
00:30:21,724 --> 00:30:23,964
but there's still some amount of your will

795
00:30:23,964 --> 00:30:25,804
that goes on while you're sleeping and in...

796
00:30:25,964 --> 00:30:27,884
Yeah. Like, if you've had the really lucid

797
00:30:27,884 --> 00:30:28,384
dream

798
00:30:28,777 --> 00:30:30,443
or the vivid dream where you're where you're

799
00:30:30,443 --> 00:30:32,586
kind of more conscious than you are normally,

800
00:30:32,983 --> 00:30:34,490
but it's still just in your mind, you're

801
00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:35,442
not in real life.

802
00:30:36,094 --> 00:30:38,011
You know, is there a moral dimension to

803
00:30:38,011 --> 00:30:39,529
that. You know, I can think of a

804
00:30:39,529 --> 00:30:41,447
dream where, you know, I committed a crime?

805
00:30:41,846 --> 00:30:44,096
I know I didn't actually do that crime,

806
00:30:44,335 --> 00:30:46,166
but I I didn't actually shoot that person

807
00:30:46,166 --> 00:30:47,041
in in real life.

808
00:30:47,678 --> 00:30:49,350
But I I guess I thought about it,

809
00:30:49,509 --> 00:30:51,834
or I I pictured that, so you know,

810
00:30:51,994 --> 00:30:53,992
does that carry over? And then... But then

811
00:30:53,992 --> 00:30:55,430
there's also the other side of it, like,

812
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:57,587
if I'm going through something horrible in a

813
00:30:57,587 --> 00:30:57,987
nightmare.

814
00:30:58,706 --> 00:31:00,878
Is there a certain response Scott is looking

815
00:31:00,878 --> 00:31:02,316
for for me. So I like that you

816
00:31:02,316 --> 00:31:04,473
were asking that question. I did an article

817
00:31:04,473 --> 00:31:06,631
like this about 3 years ago for Laura

818
00:31:06,790 --> 00:31:07,030
Haven.

819
00:31:07,924 --> 00:31:09,682
About this where, you know, you you think

820
00:31:09,682 --> 00:31:11,300
about the decisions that

821
00:31:11,679 --> 00:31:14,156
characters in the bible had to make because

822
00:31:14,156 --> 00:31:15,569
of a dream that they had

823
00:31:16,006 --> 00:31:17,356
So it's more about when they were awake,

824
00:31:17,673 --> 00:31:20,555
but how God definitely used dreams

825
00:31:21,246 --> 00:31:23,963
to prompt them to take action. Were were

826
00:31:23,963 --> 00:31:25,878
there any other lessons that you learned from

827
00:31:25,878 --> 00:31:27,634
that, that series of dreams that you had?

828
00:31:28,112 --> 00:31:29,948
I did know, and this was something that

829
00:31:29,948 --> 00:31:32,036
carried over into the book that when you're

830
00:31:32,036 --> 00:31:34,607
dreaming, your emotions tend to be very different

831
00:31:34,825 --> 00:31:37,157
than in real life, either heightened

832
00:31:37,613 --> 00:31:38,113
or

833
00:31:38,663 --> 00:31:41,209
non existent, you know, committing a crime, but

834
00:31:41,209 --> 00:31:44,710
feeling no guilt or something that's north that's

835
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:46,699
typically normal, but you're feeling a lot of

836
00:31:46,699 --> 00:31:48,869
fear about it. And so I did try

837
00:31:48,869 --> 00:31:49,369
and

838
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:51,909
put that into the story when you're in

839
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:52,789
the nightmare world?

840
00:31:53,349 --> 00:31:55,269
How are your emotions? Are they out of

841
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:57,680
control? And there were times in my dreams

842
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,913
where I could tell whether or not I

843
00:31:59,913 --> 00:32:02,784
had the awareness or the the mental control

844
00:32:02,784 --> 00:32:04,380
to make a decision, but then there were

845
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:05,656
times when I'd wake it from a dream

846
00:32:05,656 --> 00:32:08,296
and I that everything my reactions in that

847
00:32:08,296 --> 00:32:10,523
dream were completely out of my control. So

848
00:32:10,523 --> 00:32:12,534
there were kind of different layers of

849
00:32:13,067 --> 00:32:15,230
what control I had how much I could

850
00:32:15,230 --> 00:32:18,037
tap into my my morals or

851
00:32:18,491 --> 00:32:21,410
decision making and change that. So that

852
00:32:21,848 --> 00:32:24,421
fusion that came or the inconsistency that came

853
00:32:24,798 --> 00:32:26,712
was something that I had to find peace

854
00:32:26,712 --> 00:32:30,434
with, and that was another spiritual journey that

855
00:32:30,554 --> 00:32:32,392
I journal a lot through and talked with

856
00:32:32,392 --> 00:32:34,949
the lord about and came to a place

857
00:32:34,949 --> 00:32:36,387
of peace and being able to let those

858
00:32:36,387 --> 00:32:38,465
go when I'm outside of dreaming.

859
00:32:39,197 --> 00:32:41,346
Sometimes I have this dream dock and in

860
00:32:41,346 --> 00:32:43,893
the dream. I'm Spider man. No, No. It's

861
00:32:43,893 --> 00:32:45,723
not my dream. It's a friend of mine's

862
00:32:45,723 --> 00:32:45,962
dream.

863
00:32:47,092 --> 00:32:49,561
The Spider man too, which I thought was

864
00:32:49,561 --> 00:32:51,415
hilarious because at the time I've been having

865
00:32:51,473 --> 00:32:53,248
a lot of spider man dreams

866
00:32:53,639 --> 00:32:55,790
By the way, I think, this could unlock

867
00:32:55,790 --> 00:32:58,521
a whole une unemployed dimension of the pre

868
00:32:58,658 --> 00:33:01,389
destination versus free will debate. Do we have

869
00:33:01,447 --> 00:33:02,801
actual free will in James?

870
00:33:03,373 --> 00:33:06,179
Even Lucid dreams or is this just an

871
00:33:06,236 --> 00:33:08,463
illusion, but that's for another episode.

872
00:33:09,735 --> 00:33:12,621
We just had a celebration for the nightmare

873
00:33:12,677 --> 00:33:13,130
virus

874
00:33:13,566 --> 00:33:16,347
at realm, and we also had the Lore

875
00:33:16,347 --> 00:33:19,048
haven open world booth where we met so

876
00:33:19,048 --> 00:33:21,216
many people including listeners to this podcast

877
00:33:21,844 --> 00:33:24,637
and we promoted our new little slogan called

878
00:33:24,637 --> 00:33:26,712
made by humans, and that's 1 thing I

879
00:33:26,712 --> 00:33:28,947
appreciate about every guest that we have on

880
00:33:28,947 --> 00:33:31,278
this episode works. Exploring their stories is that

881
00:33:31,278 --> 00:33:32,098
they are

882
00:33:32,477 --> 00:33:34,954
exploring their own stories and others from this

883
00:33:34,954 --> 00:33:37,431
deeply human perspective. We want to encourage you

884
00:33:37,431 --> 00:33:39,679
to keep doing that, with the Lord Haven

885
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:42,945
Guild. That is our exclusive community on discord,

886
00:33:43,105 --> 00:33:45,914
our castle in the cloud, where we engage

887
00:33:46,052 --> 00:33:47,587
monthly book quests

888
00:33:47,899 --> 00:33:50,859
through the best fantastical Christian made novels that

889
00:33:50,859 --> 00:33:53,019
we can find, but you can only join

890
00:33:53,019 --> 00:33:55,019
the gil if you subscribe free to Lord

891
00:33:55,099 --> 00:33:56,868
Haven updates which you can do at laura

892
00:33:56,868 --> 00:33:58,538
haven dot com. Just look for the pop

893
00:33:58,538 --> 00:34:00,606
up and enter your email and then we

894
00:34:00,606 --> 00:34:02,673
will send you the secret code to join

895
00:34:02,673 --> 00:34:05,000
the lore haven Guild to We're having more

896
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,160
members that join there now after the conference,

897
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,400
and we're gonna talk about the nightmare virus

898
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,239
and all kinds of other books. Are the

899
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,092
best ones that we can find. Or haven

900
00:34:13,092 --> 00:34:15,482
dot com subscribe free and join the guild.

901
00:34:16,438 --> 00:34:18,429
Next up Nadine, I mentioned that dreams help

902
00:34:18,429 --> 00:34:20,433
us forecast the future So we always like

903
00:34:20,433 --> 00:34:23,054
to get as many predictions as we can

904
00:34:23,054 --> 00:34:23,871
if possible

905
00:34:24,324 --> 00:34:26,547
for the third chapter of an interview like

906
00:34:26,547 --> 00:34:28,985
this 1. The futures of reality and fantastic

907
00:34:29,422 --> 00:34:32,047
world, so the nightmare virus is out, but

908
00:34:32,047 --> 00:34:33,479
this is an idea that for you has

909
00:34:33,479 --> 00:34:35,547
been sticking around for 8 or 9 years.

910
00:34:35,865 --> 00:34:37,960
Us So I'm very curious before we even

911
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,199
talk about, maybe what's next for you. You've

912
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,519
been at this now for quite a long

913
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:44,360
time starting with the the out of time

914
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,688
siri with Enclave. Now your background of doing

915
00:34:46,688 --> 00:34:48,840
stuff with Enclave. But what are some of

916
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,312
the growth signs that you've seen in the

917
00:34:51,312 --> 00:34:53,599
genre? You've already mentioned, for example, about is

918
00:34:53,799 --> 00:34:55,394
authors may be being a little bit more

919
00:34:55,394 --> 00:34:58,106
free if they have faithful full readers to

920
00:34:58,106 --> 00:35:00,499
be trusted to try some dystopian to try

921
00:35:00,499 --> 00:35:02,754
some fantasy. I your last novel was called

922
00:35:02,972 --> 00:35:04,984
you know. So not a whole lot of

923
00:35:04,984 --> 00:35:07,385
dream viruses going on there. But what are

924
00:35:07,385 --> 00:35:07,625
some

925
00:35:08,585 --> 00:35:11,144
predictions patterns maybe that you might dare to

926
00:35:11,144 --> 00:35:12,539
make about the Christian

927
00:35:12,915 --> 00:35:14,509
fantastical world as a whole.

928
00:35:15,385 --> 00:35:16,682
I think that

929
00:35:17,297 --> 00:35:20,166
the desire for these types of book is

930
00:35:20,166 --> 00:35:22,891
growing more and more. When I was first

931
00:35:22,891 --> 00:35:23,391
published

932
00:35:23,768 --> 00:35:25,863
with the out of time series, Christian

933
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:26,980
fantastical

934
00:35:27,357 --> 00:35:30,627
books were fewer and further between than they

935
00:35:30,627 --> 00:35:31,025
are now.

936
00:35:31,918 --> 00:35:35,351
And now it's become accepted. It's not just,

937
00:35:35,511 --> 00:35:37,667
oh, those weirdo over there who write that.

938
00:35:38,066 --> 00:35:39,742
It's like, okay. Maybe they're weird, but maybe

939
00:35:39,902 --> 00:35:41,590
I'm a little bit weird too or I

940
00:35:41,590 --> 00:35:44,150
like to read weird, or I'll recommend weird

941
00:35:44,601 --> 00:35:47,057
because it got Christian Beans or it's from

942
00:35:47,057 --> 00:35:49,531
biblical world. Maybe And I think that there's

943
00:35:49,531 --> 00:35:52,311
a hunger in readers leadership for stories that

944
00:35:52,311 --> 00:35:54,774
stretch our imagination and help us grow in

945
00:35:54,774 --> 00:35:56,784
that way while also still

946
00:35:57,490 --> 00:35:59,896
I hate using the word clean because everybody

947
00:36:00,031 --> 00:36:01,722
interprets that differently, but

948
00:36:02,096 --> 00:36:04,398
Con Wholesome. Wholesome cotton. I love Wholesome.

949
00:36:05,351 --> 00:36:05,828
There we go.

950
00:36:06,557 --> 00:36:09,654
Yeah. Having for wholesome content or seems that

951
00:36:09,654 --> 00:36:11,481
draws back to the lord or if we

952
00:36:11,481 --> 00:36:13,569
just wanna read it for entertainment, it's Wholesome

953
00:36:13,704 --> 00:36:14,022
entertainment.

954
00:36:14,594 --> 00:36:17,394
So I think that it's growing and we're

955
00:36:17,394 --> 00:36:19,155
seeing it grow for a reason, I think

956
00:36:19,155 --> 00:36:21,635
in the future, it's gonna grow even more.

957
00:36:21,795 --> 00:36:24,205
Those demand is even stronger. I think our

958
00:36:24,205 --> 00:36:25,955
world, much of our world seems to be

959
00:36:25,955 --> 00:36:29,080
going in 2 extreme directions. There is the

960
00:36:29,614 --> 00:36:30,114
futuristic.

961
00:36:30,744 --> 00:36:32,580
Let's invent as much as we can as

962
00:36:32,580 --> 00:36:35,315
fast as we can and and follow that

963
00:36:35,374 --> 00:36:37,610
rabbit or they're the people who are trying

964
00:36:37,610 --> 00:36:39,845
to step back to a slower wave of

965
00:36:39,845 --> 00:36:42,572
life and a lot of those people tend

966
00:36:42,572 --> 00:36:43,471
to enjoy

967
00:36:43,849 --> 00:36:46,560
low things like reading, the things that we

968
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,272
picture equaling a calm day or you're sitting

969
00:36:49,272 --> 00:36:52,261
and you're growing your mind. And I think

970
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,836
growing your mind can happen in both of

971
00:36:53,836 --> 00:36:55,592
those extremes, but I do see kind of

972
00:36:55,592 --> 00:36:58,066
a rift happening in our culture and our

973
00:36:58,066 --> 00:37:01,028
society. People choosing 1 of those 2 ways.

974
00:37:01,505 --> 00:37:04,769
And I think reading is something that still

975
00:37:04,769 --> 00:37:06,703
exists in both of those paths

976
00:37:07,173 --> 00:37:09,748
and the demand for them is going to

977
00:37:09,806 --> 00:37:12,759
come strong onto to Christian publishing. And so

978
00:37:12,759 --> 00:37:13,876
if you're a Christian writer,

979
00:37:14,528 --> 00:37:16,760
Now is the time. That is definitely the

980
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:16,999
time.

981
00:37:17,717 --> 00:37:19,709
Yeah. I I definitely think we are living

982
00:37:19,709 --> 00:37:21,622
in a a time where we... Like you

983
00:37:21,622 --> 00:37:23,414
said, we're very... Split over technology

984
00:37:23,873 --> 00:37:24,512
because we...

985
00:37:25,391 --> 00:37:26,610
Technology is in.

986
00:37:27,628 --> 00:37:30,185
But but maybe a dystopian version of it

987
00:37:30,185 --> 00:37:32,590
is escape. You know, it's it's not inevitable.

988
00:37:32,987 --> 00:37:35,635
I was in some conversations this weekend about

989
00:37:35,693 --> 00:37:38,574
key fob, for example, like how cool You

990
00:37:38,574 --> 00:37:40,255
used to just be a key that you'd

991
00:37:40,255 --> 00:37:42,414
have for your car. Right? You could have

992
00:37:42,414 --> 00:37:43,934
extra copies of it. You could you could

993
00:37:43,934 --> 00:37:45,375
even keep 1 in your wallet or you

994
00:37:45,375 --> 00:37:47,140
could keep 1 of those little magnetic boxes

995
00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:48,891
you put under your car. And then a

996
00:37:48,891 --> 00:37:50,960
long time the key fob, and it did

997
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,153
all have all these buttons did all these

998
00:37:52,153 --> 00:37:54,063
things. You could even start your car remotely

999
00:37:54,063 --> 00:37:54,381
with it.

1000
00:37:55,194 --> 00:37:56,792
Of course, it has a battery And that

1001
00:37:56,792 --> 00:37:58,789
battery runs down. So what we need a

1002
00:37:58,789 --> 00:38:00,547
better solution. So how about an app that

1003
00:38:00,547 --> 00:38:02,625
you keep on your phone? Well, maybe I...

1004
00:38:02,958 --> 00:38:04,391
Leave my phone at home or something. So

1005
00:38:04,471 --> 00:38:06,063
I've got my watch. I've got my smartwatch.

1006
00:38:06,222 --> 00:38:08,451
So that's always gonna open my car. And

1007
00:38:08,451 --> 00:38:11,172
it's just like, every step it's, like, almost

1008
00:38:11,172 --> 00:38:14,198
like unnecessarily complicated, but it's like a solution

1009
00:38:14,198 --> 00:38:16,847
to the previous technology that was not complicated

1010
00:38:16,984 --> 00:38:18,440
enough, I guess. It's so

1011
00:38:19,228 --> 00:38:22,017
This is only gonna accelerate. There's no slowing

1012
00:38:22,017 --> 00:38:23,849
this down. We are gonna live in a

1013
00:38:23,849 --> 00:38:25,863
world that's just increasingly complicated.

1014
00:38:26,812 --> 00:38:29,280
And I like books like this that show,

1015
00:38:29,758 --> 00:38:31,589
hey, there's a technology that's gonna take over

1016
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:33,421
the world. Is literally gonna take over your

1017
00:38:33,421 --> 00:38:34,376
dreams in your mind.

1018
00:38:35,188 --> 00:38:36,700
And here's how it's gonna go wrong, but

1019
00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:38,054
here's what people are gonna do about it.

1020
00:38:38,293 --> 00:38:40,204
To me that's sort of comforting because in

1021
00:38:40,204 --> 00:38:42,433
a weird way. Like, I'm very comforted by

1022
00:38:42,433 --> 00:38:42,933
dystopian

1023
00:38:43,563 --> 00:38:45,789
stories where they're... I'm assuming there's a happy

1024
00:38:45,789 --> 00:38:47,857
ending. Mean, it's a Christian worldview. So we

1025
00:38:47,857 --> 00:38:49,527
kinda have that built into our world.

1026
00:38:49,924 --> 00:38:51,458
But it's where we can see

1027
00:38:51,768 --> 00:38:52,963
even though I walk through the valley of

1028
00:38:52,963 --> 00:38:54,794
the shadow of death. God is gonna be

1029
00:38:54,794 --> 00:38:56,387
there with me. Even though I might live

1030
00:38:56,387 --> 00:38:59,173
through this crazy dystopian cyberpunk world, whatever you

1031
00:38:59,173 --> 00:39:01,420
wanna call it, like there is a way

1032
00:39:01,420 --> 00:39:03,653
through it. I think that's really the the

1033
00:39:03,653 --> 00:39:05,568
most comforting thing you can do rather than

1034
00:39:05,568 --> 00:39:07,482
like, just look back what if all the

1035
00:39:07,482 --> 00:39:09,077
technology went away. Like I don't think it's

1036
00:39:09,077 --> 00:39:09,795
ever going away.

1037
00:39:10,367 --> 00:39:12,115
But there's going to be a way that

1038
00:39:12,115 --> 00:39:14,181
we find through it. I'm looking forward to

1039
00:39:14,181 --> 00:39:15,849
more and more stories like this. I I

1040
00:39:15,849 --> 00:39:18,392
think we're increasingly living in a Sci world.

1041
00:39:19,043 --> 00:39:20,719
You know, I grew up loving fantasy, and

1042
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,191
now I'm I'm switching more to Sci because

1043
00:39:23,191 --> 00:39:25,026
there were these viral commercials from At and

1044
00:39:25,105 --> 00:39:26,860
T back in the 19 nineties, It's like,

1045
00:39:27,019 --> 00:39:29,423
can you imagine a time where you can

1046
00:39:29,423 --> 00:39:31,113
check out any book in the world

1047
00:39:31,565 --> 00:39:32,437
from a computer.

1048
00:39:33,389 --> 00:39:34,974
And can you imagine a world where you

1049
00:39:34,974 --> 00:39:36,585
can get on a pay phone and

1050
00:39:36,973 --> 00:39:38,882
see your loved ones on a screen and

1051
00:39:38,882 --> 00:39:40,552
it's like, okay. Is first of all it's

1052
00:39:40,552 --> 00:39:41,587
funny that you have to go to a

1053
00:39:41,587 --> 00:39:43,987
library to get a digital book and second

1054
00:39:43,987 --> 00:39:44,942
of all, you have to go to pay

1055
00:39:44,942 --> 00:39:47,008
phone, like they... It's like they couldn't imagine

1056
00:39:47,008 --> 00:39:49,074
a world where pay phones didn't exist.

1057
00:39:50,505 --> 00:39:52,833
That whole vision of the. It seems so

1058
00:39:52,890 --> 00:39:55,291
second So Kits and, u. That that'll never

1059
00:39:55,291 --> 00:39:56,723
happen. And now it has happened.

1060
00:39:57,359 --> 00:39:58,655
And now it's increasingly

1061
00:39:59,189 --> 00:39:59,587
happening,

1062
00:40:00,158 --> 00:40:02,323
you know, just this week, Spacex

1063
00:40:02,695 --> 00:40:05,233
announced that they've had 5 launches already in

1064
00:40:05,233 --> 00:40:07,215
4 weeks, I think of their latest

1065
00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:11,039
rocket. And so I like that you are

1066
00:40:11,039 --> 00:40:13,341
focusing the reader on that like, we're entering

1067
00:40:13,341 --> 00:40:15,326
this fast paced world, but in a book,

1068
00:40:15,659 --> 00:40:18,136
you can take the slow path through thinking

1069
00:40:18,136 --> 00:40:20,054
about it. You know, not not avoiding it,

1070
00:40:20,294 --> 00:40:20,794
not

1071
00:40:21,253 --> 00:40:23,490
going back to the old times,

1072
00:40:24,385 --> 00:40:26,625
But how can we live through this time

1073
00:40:26,625 --> 00:40:28,465
as a accretion. So I I hope to

1074
00:40:28,465 --> 00:40:29,824
see more of this from a lot of

1075
00:40:29,824 --> 00:40:30,224
authors?

1076
00:40:30,704 --> 00:40:32,798
I think that's a great perspective. Well, I

1077
00:40:32,798 --> 00:40:34,871
like both Sci f and fantasy. I I

1078
00:40:34,871 --> 00:40:36,705
think we all do. And nadine we just

1079
00:40:36,705 --> 00:40:38,619
recently had this kind of fake war with

1080
00:40:38,619 --> 00:40:41,251
the enclave authors and incoming enclave authors.

1081
00:40:41,823 --> 00:40:43,971
Over the summer about the Sci f versus

1082
00:40:43,971 --> 00:40:45,664
fantasy and I'm convinced

1083
00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:48,665
that 100 percent of the participants were feeling

1084
00:40:48,665 --> 00:40:50,597
like a double agent this whole time

1085
00:40:50,909 --> 00:40:52,664
because I don't think anyone is just a

1086
00:40:52,664 --> 00:40:54,579
complete Sci fire or fantasy partisan,

1087
00:40:54,978 --> 00:40:56,734
Did you take a aside in that could

1088
00:40:56,734 --> 00:40:58,824
you even take a side in that? I

1089
00:40:58,824 --> 00:41:00,738
mean, I was kind of kidnapped onto the

1090
00:41:00,818 --> 00:41:03,132
Sci f side, and I feel like even

1091
00:41:03,132 --> 00:41:05,387
with nightmare virus, like you said they're definitely...

1092
00:41:05,939 --> 00:41:08,889
Fantasy elements, my editor and I call my

1093
00:41:08,889 --> 00:41:11,599
book Science Fantasy because it's so in the

1094
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:13,274
middle. You know, I tried to keep the

1095
00:41:13,274 --> 00:41:14,310
piece as much as I could.

1096
00:41:14,964 --> 00:41:17,464
Right. It's not a just a a squishy

1097
00:41:17,605 --> 00:41:19,625
position. It it is a biblical

1098
00:41:20,244 --> 00:41:23,777
position. There's elements of fantasy and Sci in

1099
00:41:23,777 --> 00:41:26,164
almost every story and Sci likes to play

1100
00:41:26,164 --> 00:41:27,993
around with Fantasy and the fantasy likes to

1101
00:41:27,993 --> 00:41:30,061
play around with Sci f. Although it does

1102
00:41:30,061 --> 00:41:31,989
seem that For example, Star trek can have

1103
00:41:31,989 --> 00:41:34,701
a complete fantasy episode within Sci f constraints

1104
00:41:34,701 --> 00:41:37,492
whereas if you put. Phase into your medieval

1105
00:41:37,492 --> 00:41:37,992
castle

1106
00:41:38,369 --> 00:41:40,772
seems a lot stranger. So maybe 1 can

1107
00:41:40,772 --> 00:41:42,042
get away with it more than the other.

1108
00:41:42,597 --> 00:41:44,740
But I asked for predictions earlier, the nightmare

1109
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:47,121
virus is out. Do you have any a

1110
00:41:47,121 --> 00:41:48,152
story ideas?

1111
00:41:48,885 --> 00:41:51,224
Announcements you wish to leak

1112
00:41:51,605 --> 00:41:54,244
going into 20 25 and beyond on your

1113
00:41:54,244 --> 00:41:56,804
part. I have nothing that I can leak.

1114
00:41:57,380 --> 00:42:00,099
But I can't say something's coming. Okay. And

1115
00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:02,099
I'll have to leave it at that. I'm

1116
00:42:02,099 --> 00:42:04,660
sworn to secrecy. Yeah. Hurting your first folks.

1117
00:42:05,059 --> 00:42:07,414
Breaking news, breaking news. Something

1118
00:42:07,793 --> 00:42:08,512
is coming,

1119
00:42:09,151 --> 00:42:10,590
and you can take that to the bank.

1120
00:42:10,749 --> 00:42:11,969
And there's... That's un.

1121
00:42:12,747 --> 00:42:15,317
Wonderful to know. Wonderful to know. Well, they

1122
00:42:15,317 --> 00:42:17,492
needed. It's been great having you the nightmare

1123
00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:20,342
virus out everywhere. You can get the hard

1124
00:42:20,342 --> 00:42:22,177
cover and get the audiobook book, all of

1125
00:42:22,177 --> 00:42:25,222
that, where can folks keep track of the

1126
00:42:25,222 --> 00:42:27,610
something that is coming as well as these

1127
00:42:27,610 --> 00:42:29,760
stories that you've already made in Fantasy Sci

1128
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,626
f and everywhere in between. Yeah. My website

1129
00:42:32,626 --> 00:42:34,974
nadine Brent. Dot com, but I'm most active

1130
00:42:35,032 --> 00:42:37,661
on Instagram and through my email newsletter.

1131
00:42:38,378 --> 00:42:39,652
If you wanna make sure that you don't

1132
00:42:39,652 --> 00:42:42,122
miss any announcements, my newsletter is the place

1133
00:42:42,122 --> 00:42:44,793
to be and it wouldn't hurt to follow

1134
00:42:45,012 --> 00:42:46,609
my publisher on place publishing.

1135
00:42:47,089 --> 00:42:49,166
Yeah. Or if you can find Nadine journal,

1136
00:42:49,246 --> 00:42:51,416
and you, you have... A secret key that

1137
00:42:51,416 --> 00:42:53,170
goes into the lock, You know, maybe you

1138
00:42:53,170 --> 00:42:55,561
can find out some more information. To find

1139
00:42:55,561 --> 00:42:57,714
a portal. I just wanna know if there's

1140
00:42:57,714 --> 00:43:00,125
space in the tiny house a for a

1141
00:43:00,125 --> 00:43:02,764
restricted section because I understand a lot of

1142
00:43:02,764 --> 00:43:04,364
folks living in tiny houses have to go

1143
00:43:04,364 --> 00:43:06,525
for electronic books, and I hope you'll always

1144
00:43:06,525 --> 00:43:10,057
keep a secret space for physical branding hobbies

1145
00:43:10,057 --> 00:43:12,135
just for the books. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's

1146
00:43:12,135 --> 00:43:14,212
says bigger on the inside. You know, there

1147
00:43:14,212 --> 00:43:15,864
you go. Now it's kinda of fantasy inside

1148
00:43:16,063 --> 00:43:17,568
the same time, Nadine, thank you so much

1149
00:43:17,568 --> 00:43:19,312
for stopping by and gods being with the

1150
00:43:19,312 --> 00:43:21,531
nightmare virus and every other story you create.

1151
00:43:22,086 --> 00:43:23,117
Thank you so much for help.

1152
00:43:28,403 --> 00:43:30,161
Steven, that was so interesting to hear in

1153
00:43:30,161 --> 00:43:30,560
nadine.

1154
00:43:30,974 --> 00:43:33,277
Point out how when you're dreaming your emotions

1155
00:43:33,277 --> 00:43:35,421
tend to be very different. You don't feel

1156
00:43:35,421 --> 00:43:37,089
the things you think you should feel or

1157
00:43:37,089 --> 00:43:39,313
you feel things that you can't quite explain

1158
00:43:39,313 --> 00:43:40,919
they they seem a little out of place.

1159
00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:42,837
And when we wake up, you try to

1160
00:43:42,837 --> 00:43:44,914
make sense of that. We've talked about dreams

1161
00:43:44,914 --> 00:43:46,512
in the Bible a little bit, there's an

1162
00:43:46,512 --> 00:43:48,271
article wrote that you can go check out

1163
00:43:48,271 --> 00:43:50,864
in the show notes something I'm very fascinated

1164
00:43:50,925 --> 00:43:52,844
by right now, and this is more... So

1165
00:43:52,844 --> 00:43:53,985
in my day job

1166
00:43:54,364 --> 00:43:56,844
is people from the Middle East who have

1167
00:43:56,844 --> 00:44:00,528
dreams and visions, of Jesus or other things

1168
00:44:00,528 --> 00:44:01,803
that lead them to Jesus.

1169
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,193
And I'm actually working a little project of

1170
00:44:04,193 --> 00:44:07,003
my own to try to capture those stories

1171
00:44:07,952 --> 00:44:10,023
because there is something very powerful about the

1172
00:44:10,023 --> 00:44:12,572
way that God can speak to people do

1173
00:44:12,572 --> 00:44:14,882
their dreams, and I don't totally understand the

1174
00:44:14,882 --> 00:44:16,556
rules of that, but it does seem to

1175
00:44:16,556 --> 00:44:19,041
be very common among people from the Middle

1176
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,511
East. I've I've heard up to 1 half

1177
00:44:21,511 --> 00:44:23,901
of people that become Christians from that background

1178
00:44:23,901 --> 00:44:26,291
have had basically supernatural dreams.

1179
00:44:27,260 --> 00:44:29,240
And so to you are listener, I've I've

1180
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,776
always wanted to hear from other people, were

1181
00:44:31,776 --> 00:44:33,836
their dreams you had that you are convinced.

1182
00:44:34,089 --> 00:44:35,764
Were from the lord that that lined up

1183
00:44:35,764 --> 00:44:38,815
with something in scripture that led you to

1184
00:44:38,873 --> 00:44:41,585
some active repentance or that helped you make

1185
00:44:41,585 --> 00:44:43,910
some big decision in your life were you

1186
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:45,045
ever a drafts,

1187
00:44:45,577 --> 00:44:47,800
as Nadine said, where you took control of

1188
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:48,277
a dream,

1189
00:44:48,912 --> 00:44:51,135
and you started having a lucid dream where

1190
00:44:51,135 --> 00:44:53,137
you could fly or you could... Know, do

1191
00:44:53,137 --> 00:44:55,368
whatever you wanted, but you knew you were

1192
00:44:55,368 --> 00:44:58,258
asleep or have you had reoccurring nightmares

1193
00:44:59,192 --> 00:45:01,274
and, you you had to figure your way

1194
00:45:01,274 --> 00:45:02,783
through that. So send us a note about

1195
00:45:02,783 --> 00:45:03,657
any of these topics,

1196
00:45:04,451 --> 00:45:04,951
podcast

1197
00:45:05,325 --> 00:45:06,994
at laura haven dot com or you can

1198
00:45:06,994 --> 00:45:07,970
also comment

1199
00:45:08,359 --> 00:45:10,117
on our episode page at lori haven dot

1200
00:45:10,117 --> 00:45:11,896
com or find us on Facebook,

1201
00:45:12,434 --> 00:45:13,393
Instagram and Twitter.

1202
00:45:14,352 --> 00:45:16,350
Next on fantastical truth,

1203
00:45:17,002 --> 00:45:18,827
Then the Lord said to Joshua.

1204
00:45:19,303 --> 00:45:21,207
Stretch out the ja that is in your

1205
00:45:21,207 --> 00:45:22,659
hand toward Ai

1206
00:45:23,032 --> 00:45:24,777
for I will give it into your hand.

1207
00:45:25,427 --> 00:45:27,413
Well, there you have it straight from scripture,

1208
00:45:27,651 --> 00:45:30,828
clear biblical evidence to oppose artificial intelligence.

1209
00:45:31,384 --> 00:45:33,528
Right? Well, at the same time, many people

1210
00:45:33,528 --> 00:45:36,572
do see advantages. To these tools, including but

1211
00:45:36,572 --> 00:45:39,369
not limited to the generative Ai tools,

1212
00:45:39,927 --> 00:45:42,300
but how can we celebrate the virtue of

1213
00:45:42,499 --> 00:45:45,450
stories made by humans. We just had some

1214
00:45:45,450 --> 00:45:48,242
amazing conversations about that at realm makers.

1215
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,432
In light of our new hashtag along with

1216
00:45:51,432 --> 00:45:53,440
buttons and books stickers that we just launched

1217
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:53,940
at

1218
00:45:54,316 --> 00:45:55,613
called hashtag

1219
00:45:55,989 --> 00:45:58,561
made by humans. We're going to explore that

1220
00:45:58,619 --> 00:46:01,501
next week. Stickers As you are enjoying stories

1221
00:46:01,501 --> 00:46:03,971
made by humans. I hope that you also

1222
00:46:03,971 --> 00:46:06,759
have good dreams. I hope that they reflect

1223
00:46:06,759 --> 00:46:09,324
of the peace and goodness and joy, of

1224
00:46:09,324 --> 00:46:11,635
our Lord Savior Jesus Christ. I don't care

1225
00:46:11,635 --> 00:46:13,948
that it sounds cliche. He is the give

1226
00:46:13,948 --> 00:46:16,361
of all good dreams and sometimes he even

1227
00:46:16,499 --> 00:46:17,829
brings them to life

1228
00:46:18,266 --> 00:46:20,832
We look forward to that ultimate

1229
00:46:21,206 --> 00:46:23,588
enjoyment as we are staying awake and continuing

1230
00:46:23,588 --> 00:46:25,495
to seek and find his fantastical trip.