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20 years ago, 2 authors, 1 publisher,

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12 action thriller novels

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and 40 teen spin off books came to

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a grand finale with the fictional return of

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Jesus Christ to Earth.

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1 of those top authors, marriage and prophecy

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teacher, Tim La

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has since passed to his eternal rest. The

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other author who's written hundreds of novels Jerry

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Jenkins is still working and today, Jenkins joins

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us to explore the left behind of legacy.

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Speculative fiction like no other genre

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reflects the creativity of God.

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If you look at the scriptures, you're gonna

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have to see that God uses

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imagination more than rash rational discourse.

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We are supposed to be image bearer

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for vastly creative God.

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Reading fantastical fiction opened a portal in my

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imagination for a place other than just a

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materialistic world.

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I experienced the gospel story with the mind

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of someone who loved adventure and loved the

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idea of light conquered darkness.

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We're wired for stories that reflect how we

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see the world in ways that are true.

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The story is either need to price or

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it's pointing to our need for christ.

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Welcome a anew to fantastical truth that the

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summer hot boiler podcast from lore haven dot

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com in which we explore fantastical stories for

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God's glory. And I am east Steven Burnett

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burnett, the publisher of Lore haven an author

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of a new science fiction adventure novel releasing

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it next year from enclave publishing, and I

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am so glad that today's guest was not

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rapture at 19 95.

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Because if he had been tribulation or not,

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this podcast would not exist.

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And I'm Zachary, Russell, and, you know, in

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Christian sub culture, there's kind of this ongoing

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joke of playing rapture prank

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where you set out some clothes and wait

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till someone comes back and making them think

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that they

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were rapture. Unfortunately, I never got to do

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that, but we'll get the next best thing,

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which is this episode 02:21,

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How did the left behind series.

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And rapture millions of fans, and I'm so

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excited to be talking to the author of

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that series today, Jerry Jenkins.

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I never pulled that prank. I never had

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that frank pulled on me. Guess I didn't

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go to the right summer camps. I went

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to 1 summer camp. Maybe they were post

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tribulation like Usa za. They didn't believe in

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a pre tribulation rapture like the left behind

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series. I did, however, based on enjoyment of

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the series, make some cringe fan art of

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myself getting rapture, But, you know, I'm grateful

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that I didn't get wrapped shirt. It the

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rapture did not occur in 19 95.

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But if it had been, it would look

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a lot like the left behind series or

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at least book 1,

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And as we've seen throughout this left behind

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legacy series, we've been doing this summer on

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fantastical truth, I still to this day,

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stan the left behind books. I I'm am

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a big fan. I don't even know if

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I agree with the end times view as

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we heard about several episodes go 216

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actually, When Zack and I did our friendly

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debate. But I still love this series for

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what it was doing,

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for the heart and the evangelist and entertainment

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motives of its creators.

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Now I look forward to learning more about

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the origins of that series when our guest

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arrives. Yeah. You know, Steven, I... I've shared

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this before, but left behind is a big

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reason that I found you and we became

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friends and started doing this podcast,

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I

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somehow came across the, kind of the previous

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version of the or hidden website where you

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had several articles that said, you know, left

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behind is still awesome.

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And I really wanted to hang around with

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people like that that that, like, you and

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others that said, you know, I wanna celebrate

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the Christian fiction I grew up with or

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that I discovered in young adulthood or even

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as an adult I don't wanna be 1

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of those Christians. It's too cool for school,

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and thanks,

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you know, all these billions of people that

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like this book. They're somehow wrong. You know,

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I I've shared before I've I grew up

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in Austin, Texas where it's all about the

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Indie music scene and, you know, you're too

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cool for pop music and You've gotta go

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End and and obviously, we interview a lot

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of Indie authors on this podcast, but we

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also interview authors,

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a very popular books that where once upon

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a time sold at Walmart.

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And, you know, do you ever see Christian

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fiction on display at Walmart? It is kind

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of

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unusual

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And what's great about the left behind series

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is how many

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people outside of the usual, you know, reading

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habits of of finding fantastical stories

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For god's glory that we review and find

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it Lore haven.

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This reached so many people you you wouldn't

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even know had read these books.

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It's had such a wide impact on culture.

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I mean, Nicholas Cage starred in a movie

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based on these books. So That tells you

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to bring that up. Yeah.

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Yes. And so this has made such an

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impact, and I... I'm so excited to

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find out more about how this series have

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evolved overtime or it was intelligently designed depending

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on your, you know? You just can't beat

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the book and they're 12 left behind books.

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And I I don't think there's any way

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they could have gotten so far

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as capturing the apocalyptic

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scale and the prolonged relationship drama throughout out

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the left behind series. And they're surprising amount

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of relationship drama in your folks up. You

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know, people fall in love, get married, to

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have kids and try to figure out what

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they're gonna do with the kids, when the

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Antichrist is on your tail, it really isn't

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an an extremely thrilling series, And I've enjoyed,

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rei

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myself in that world through the venue of

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the audio drama. We've talked earlier with Pod

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steed and Darby Ke and Chris Fab, who

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had a big hand in putting together the

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audio drama monetization the left behind series, And

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then Dan Bay, who was the former marketing

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head at Ty House in the episode 217,

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he helped us steward the resources

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that sent these books into so many readers

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hands

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20 to 30 years ago, really been fun

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to explore the left behind legacy. And I'm

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guessing we may have more of this story

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to tell just like the left behind guys

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figured out. Once they were 2, 3 books

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in and realized

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we were insane to think we could cover

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7 year tribulation in 1 book or even

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3 book. So meanwhile, the left behind books

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and times fiction are not by any means

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the only books that we enjoy exploring at

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Laura Haven.

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We also review the best newer Christian made

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fantastical novels that we can find whether it's

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sci, dystopian, fantasy paranormal, whatever,

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there's so many more of these books coming

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out. Of the fantastical Christian made genre is

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growing, and we want to be there to

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find the best ones, and you can subscribe

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free at laura haven dot com and get

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weekly reviews.

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Articles when we can spare them, news as

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well. And, of course, updates if you like

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about our, Tuesday episodes of this podcast

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We'll also send you a link to join

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the Lore haven Guild, our exclusive discord community,

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and I'll talk more about that a little

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later on in this episode.

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1 of those new books that we reviewed

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is a title just released from our top

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sponsor,

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Enclave publishing

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It is called the nightmare virus by Nadine

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Brand and spoiler alert. Next week, we're gonna

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have Nadine on the show to explore the

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origins of this story. The nightmare virus starts

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with this premise, some viruses go after the

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body, but the nightmare virus goes after the

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mind

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When dream technology goes wrong, a virus spreads

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across the globe but trapping people in a

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universal dreams scape, they call it the nightmare

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virus.

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King Cross is determined to find a cure

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if he can decipher his brother's chicken scratch

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formula notes. But when he gets infected, he

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has only 22 days until he's trapped in

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the mental prison forever.

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Now every time he falls asleep, he must

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fight in a nightmare arena until he earns

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his freedom to live in the new world

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that exists only in the mind.

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Then he finds a way to manipulate the

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nightmare there to change it by mere thought,

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forced to navigate a world of night beasts,

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mis blades, and half truths,

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Kane turns his focus to survival? Will he

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continue searching for a cure or will he

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swear allegiance to the nightmare?

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And the bigger question might be, will he

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even have a choice.

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Enclave escape presents the nightmare virus by award

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winning author nadine Brand

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and it is available now wherever fantastic books

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are sold, order online or ask for the

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nightmare virus at your favorite books seller or

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your local library.

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On enclave Publishing by the way is a

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00:08:31,147 --> 00:08:33,298
division of Oasis family media, and you can

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see that cool cover and more info on

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our shown notes for this episode

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221

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or go to lord haven dot com slash

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podcast.

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I hear the ding and ding or whatever

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sentence did you wanna say something brother. You

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know, Steven, the interesting thing to me is

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how this series came out in the mid

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nineties. I I mentioned the whole, you know,

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church camp rapture joke thing.

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But something kind of ee similar happened to

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me

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in 2001.

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So on the morning of 09:11,

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I woke up to an empty house. I

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lived with 3 roommates at the time,

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and I woke up and no 1 was

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there and yet the Tv was on showing

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the twin towers, you know, burning from the

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2 plane attacks.

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And it was years before this that I

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had watched the left behind movie,

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and I hadn't read the book by this

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point. I... But I had seen the Kirk

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Cameron movie,

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and

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it was implied in the movie, how there

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were

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un piloted

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aircraft,

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crashing around the country and we heard

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with our previous guest Todd Ba steed,

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how there was a a moment in the

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audio drama where you just hear the static

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from another plane and they're wondering what happened

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to it. So before, we had all the

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fiction that was inspired by 09:11. We we

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had

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fiction that

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really started imagining what would happen if airplanes

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were totally out of control. It's not that

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Jerry necessarily predicted that future that that we

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have lived in post 09:11

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where at, you know, airport security has just

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gone very extreme.

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But he did sort of predict our

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future of a fiction of of thinking about

270
00:10:14,514 --> 00:10:17,254
all these things. So I'm curious to know

271
00:10:17,568 --> 00:10:19,952
how he's going to arrive today if he

272
00:10:19,952 --> 00:10:21,621
came by airplane or some other means.

273
00:10:22,256 --> 00:10:24,005
Well, if I had a nickel for every

274
00:10:24,005 --> 00:10:27,768
time a Jenkins led fiction project ended up

275
00:10:27,768 --> 00:10:29,844
changing the face of evangelical culture.

276
00:10:30,562 --> 00:10:32,797
I'd have 2 nickel, which isn't much, but

277
00:10:32,797 --> 00:10:33,995
it's weird that it happened twice.

278
00:10:34,648 --> 00:10:36,880
Now with Dallas jenkins, his son with the

279
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,750
chosen and originally with Jerry Jenkins, who is

280
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:41,743
even now arriving in our studio.

281
00:10:46,055 --> 00:10:48,601
Jerry Jenkins has just roar into the studio

282
00:10:48,601 --> 00:10:51,716
in his 19 twenties purple bentley and if

283
00:10:51,716 --> 00:10:53,226
you thought they didn't make 1 of those,

284
00:10:53,544 --> 00:10:56,406
well, they did because this is fantastical truth,

285
00:10:56,644 --> 00:10:59,522
so you can fantastical utilize the vehicle Jerry,

286
00:10:59,602 --> 00:11:01,594
thank you so much for joining us. Great

287
00:11:01,594 --> 00:11:02,789
to be with you. Thanks for having me.

288
00:11:03,188 --> 00:11:04,622
Yeah. Great to see you. I'm I'm more

289
00:11:04,622 --> 00:11:06,295
of a Ford Mustang kind of guy, but

290
00:11:06,295 --> 00:11:08,230
it's that was my first car, but that's

291
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:10,230
okay. Been bentley laser are pretty cool too.

292
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:15,029
Mine was my, great grandmother's 19 88 White

293
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:16,803
Capri priest. Come to think of it and

294
00:11:16,803 --> 00:11:19,281
it was terrible. I guess that's technically a

295
00:11:19,281 --> 00:11:20,000
classic card now.

296
00:11:21,039 --> 00:11:23,756
Anything from 88 is classic. Yeah. Yeah. When

297
00:11:23,836 --> 00:11:26,088
I love mustang too. That's are cool. Jerry

298
00:11:26,088 --> 00:11:29,361
brings in some classic wisdom and years of

299
00:11:29,361 --> 00:11:31,756
experience as we've just heard, lots of folks

300
00:11:31,756 --> 00:11:33,831
know him, of course, from the left behind

301
00:11:33,831 --> 00:11:34,230
series,

302
00:11:34,804 --> 00:11:36,635
But there is so much more jerry to

303
00:11:36,635 --> 00:11:38,706
your backstory, and folks who want to get

304
00:11:38,706 --> 00:11:40,696
into more of that can read your writing

305
00:11:40,696 --> 00:11:42,767
book, writing for the soul, which by the

306
00:11:42,767 --> 00:11:44,851
way, I read that, and I actually thought

307
00:11:44,851 --> 00:11:47,239
that was a great book just in terms

308
00:11:47,239 --> 00:11:48,831
of Christian creativity in general,

309
00:11:49,467 --> 00:11:51,298
with a lot of specific advice for those

310
00:11:51,298 --> 00:11:52,491
who are doing writing,

311
00:11:53,142 --> 00:11:56,390
But, you started off with sports writing? Like,

312
00:11:56,866 --> 00:11:58,926
can you give, like, a crash course of

313
00:11:58,926 --> 00:12:01,649
your life real quick pre left behind as

314
00:12:01,649 --> 00:12:04,290
we go into chapter 1. We're doing prem

315
00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:05,970
mid and post left behind here,

316
00:12:06,690 --> 00:12:09,764
what led you then from writing about sports

317
00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:10,138
and

318
00:12:10,853 --> 00:12:11,330
ministry

319
00:12:11,887 --> 00:12:15,066
profile guys to making an end times thriller.

320
00:12:15,543 --> 00:12:17,133
Yeah. If if we wanna go back to

321
00:12:17,133 --> 00:12:19,688
the beginning, I actually talked my way into

322
00:12:19,688 --> 00:12:22,489
a sports writing job when I was 14.

323
00:12:23,099 --> 00:12:24,844
I used to write up games I played

324
00:12:24,844 --> 00:12:27,081
at home like dice baseball things like that.

325
00:12:27,161 --> 00:12:28,274
And I would write it up as if

326
00:12:28,274 --> 00:12:29,069
it really happened.

327
00:12:29,944 --> 00:12:32,012
And so I went to the local paper,

328
00:12:32,489 --> 00:12:34,079
and I was a big kid with... And

329
00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:35,749
and I looked older than I than I

330
00:12:35,749 --> 00:12:36,067
was.

331
00:12:36,957 --> 00:12:38,943
Which was an advantage at 14, not so

332
00:12:38,943 --> 00:12:41,486
much now. I said to the sports editor.

333
00:12:42,281 --> 00:12:44,203
How are you fixed for sports rack? Person

334
00:12:44,203 --> 00:12:45,713
and he said, why? And I said because

335
00:12:45,872 --> 00:12:47,860
I am 1, so he wanted to know,

336
00:12:47,939 --> 00:12:49,370
you know, what experience I had, and I

337
00:12:49,370 --> 00:12:50,960
told him it was just pretend at home,

338
00:12:51,119 --> 00:12:53,042
but he said, Let me have you try

339
00:12:53,042 --> 00:12:54,553
a few. You know, you can be a

340
00:12:54,553 --> 00:12:56,302
string. You can cover high school games.

341
00:12:57,176 --> 00:12:58,766
And he didn't realize that My mother was

342
00:12:58,766 --> 00:13:00,039
waiting for me in the parking and lot

343
00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:01,231
had to drive me to the games and

344
00:13:01,231 --> 00:13:02,601
back them newspaper office.

345
00:13:03,319 --> 00:13:05,792
But I really got a crash course in

346
00:13:05,792 --> 00:13:07,626
in how to write because he would edit

347
00:13:07,626 --> 00:13:11,476
me in, and whatever survived his red pen

348
00:13:11,790 --> 00:13:13,549
he would pay a dollar per inch that

349
00:13:13,549 --> 00:13:15,710
landed in the paper. So, you know, at

350
00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:17,870
14, you're making 10 or 20 bucks every

351
00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:19,883
few days doing that. I thought I was

352
00:13:19,883 --> 00:13:21,957
really... I was a professional writer at 14.

353
00:13:22,356 --> 00:13:25,388
But about age 16, I remember being at

354
00:13:25,388 --> 00:13:26,425
a Christian camp,

355
00:13:27,078 --> 00:13:29,088
and hearing a speaker talk about

356
00:13:29,462 --> 00:13:31,290
some people are called to full time Christian

357
00:13:31,290 --> 00:13:33,436
work. And he said, we're... You know, any

358
00:13:33,436 --> 00:13:36,003
any Christian should be full time Christians, but

359
00:13:36,714 --> 00:13:38,013
some people are actually

360
00:13:38,552 --> 00:13:40,709
actually make their living and, you know, serve

361
00:13:40,709 --> 00:13:43,186
god that way. And I really felt convicted

362
00:13:43,186 --> 00:13:45,196
by that and felt like I should should

363
00:13:45,196 --> 00:13:47,363
go forward and commit myself to

364
00:13:47,737 --> 00:13:49,562
to following this call to full time person

365
00:13:49,562 --> 00:13:52,365
work. And I remember telling the speakers wife

366
00:13:52,834 --> 00:13:54,512
who was the counselor for that night. I

367
00:13:54,512 --> 00:13:55,871
said, I guess I'll have to give up

368
00:13:55,871 --> 00:13:58,349
the sports writing, because now I... You know

369
00:13:58,428 --> 00:13:59,547
I was old moved to drive and so

370
00:13:59,627 --> 00:14:01,146
I was, you know, all over the place

371
00:14:01,146 --> 00:14:03,233
doing sports writing. And I'll have to study

372
00:14:03,233 --> 00:14:05,142
to be a pastor or missionary, and she

373
00:14:05,142 --> 00:14:07,288
said don't be too quick to give up

374
00:14:07,288 --> 00:14:09,912
the writing because God often equip us.

375
00:14:10,883 --> 00:14:11,839
Before he calls us.

376
00:14:12,796 --> 00:14:14,709
And if he's equipped you with this gift,

377
00:14:15,666 --> 00:14:17,659
that may be the vehicle you used to

378
00:14:17,659 --> 00:14:20,461
to fulfill that call. Obviously, that's what happened,

379
00:14:20,699 --> 00:14:22,211
and I don't think I would have been

380
00:14:22,211 --> 00:14:23,961
a good pastor or missionary,

381
00:14:24,438 --> 00:14:25,711
but writing was sort of my thing.

382
00:14:26,601 --> 00:14:28,930
And it really changed my whole view too

383
00:14:29,385 --> 00:14:32,407
of what success is because most writers I

384
00:14:32,407 --> 00:14:34,897
know to them success as a best seller,

385
00:14:35,377 --> 00:14:36,336
a bigger royalty check,

386
00:14:37,055 --> 00:14:37,295
review,

387
00:14:38,094 --> 00:14:40,651
letters from fans, while I've had all that

388
00:14:40,651 --> 00:14:42,090
and more in my career,

389
00:14:42,744 --> 00:14:45,541
but it's never been the goal. And people

390
00:14:45,541 --> 00:14:47,139
say when were you called to writing. I'm

391
00:14:47,139 --> 00:14:48,578
not sure I was ever called to writing.

392
00:14:48,738 --> 00:14:50,496
I was called to full time Christian service.

393
00:14:50,655 --> 00:14:51,395
And so

394
00:14:51,867 --> 00:14:54,352
I succeed when I obey and

395
00:14:54,883 --> 00:14:56,868
obedience to me means finishing the manuscript.

396
00:14:57,344 --> 00:14:59,114
What happens to it after that

397
00:14:59,582 --> 00:15:01,570
whether it becomes a best seller or or

398
00:15:01,570 --> 00:15:04,116
gets good reviews or bad reviews. That's up

399
00:15:04,116 --> 00:15:05,490
to God into the marketplace.

400
00:15:05,945 --> 00:15:07,377
It takes all the pressure off me.

401
00:15:08,109 --> 00:15:10,902
I'm thrilled with the results, but I'm not

402
00:15:10,902 --> 00:15:12,179
sitting there trying to write a best salary.

403
00:15:12,418 --> 00:15:13,615
I'm just trying to ab obey the call.

404
00:15:13,935 --> 00:15:15,451
I love that, Jerry. First of all, I

405
00:15:15,451 --> 00:15:18,845
loved it. You approached Christian vocation as

406
00:15:19,304 --> 00:15:21,225
something a little bit outside the box. So

407
00:15:21,225 --> 00:15:23,325
in my day job, I'm I'm in vocational

408
00:15:23,384 --> 00:15:25,710
ministry, but That's, you know, such a small

409
00:15:25,710 --> 00:15:27,301
percentage of the body of Christ that we

410
00:15:27,301 --> 00:15:28,812
have to have a bigger view that to

411
00:15:28,812 --> 00:15:31,610
serve the lord, full time means being, you

412
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:33,755
know, working for a non nonprofit. There's so

413
00:15:33,755 --> 00:15:34,470
many different ways.

414
00:15:35,185 --> 00:15:37,012
Now we actually explored this about a hundred

415
00:15:37,012 --> 00:15:39,339
episodes ago and episode 109

416
00:15:39,808 --> 00:15:42,435
if how should local churches support Christian made

417
00:15:42,595 --> 00:15:45,063
Fantasy and we proposed this idea of, like,

418
00:15:45,222 --> 00:15:46,734
what if there was a story pastor at

419
00:15:46,734 --> 00:15:49,141
a church, but It might not actually work

420
00:15:49,141 --> 00:15:51,296
as well inside the church, it might be

421
00:15:51,296 --> 00:15:52,972
outside the church. And, you know, in your

422
00:15:52,972 --> 00:15:55,207
case, you're selling your books in the marketplace.

423
00:15:55,446 --> 00:15:57,694
It's not just you're making books for a

424
00:15:57,694 --> 00:16:00,326
church or as a staff writer for a

425
00:16:00,326 --> 00:16:03,037
a profit or, You know, you really put

426
00:16:03,037 --> 00:16:05,443
yourself out there in in the world. To

427
00:16:05,443 --> 00:16:07,355
make these books. So I I just love

428
00:16:07,355 --> 00:16:09,347
that that you were called to Christian work

429
00:16:09,347 --> 00:16:11,578
as a writer as a fiction writer as

430
00:16:11,578 --> 00:16:12,136
an artist.

431
00:16:12,788 --> 00:16:14,858
And you did that for hire essentially, like,

432
00:16:15,017 --> 00:16:16,609
you you weren't just being paid to do

433
00:16:16,609 --> 00:16:18,201
that. And so you took a lot of

434
00:16:18,201 --> 00:16:20,452
risk, and I love that because

435
00:16:20,764 --> 00:16:22,280
I think we're we're in an era now

436
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,478
that's very risk ave ave.

437
00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:24,436
And,

438
00:16:25,314 --> 00:16:28,027
and people want very safe options for serving

439
00:16:28,027 --> 00:16:29,876
the Lord or for doing things. And I

440
00:16:29,876 --> 00:16:31,546
think we have to kinda do big things.

441
00:16:32,103 --> 00:16:34,091
But as you said, trust the results to

442
00:16:34,171 --> 00:16:37,193
God and just focus on what we're responsible

443
00:16:37,193 --> 00:16:37,431
to do.

444
00:16:38,244 --> 00:16:40,321
Right. And it's interesting talking about being a

445
00:16:40,321 --> 00:16:42,878
fiction writer, when I first started, I'd say

446
00:16:42,878 --> 00:16:45,115
my first 18 or 19 books were non

447
00:16:45,115 --> 00:16:45,275
fiction.

448
00:16:46,007 --> 00:16:47,144
I wrote about

449
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:50,464
evangelist. I wrote about Christian Education. I wrote

450
00:16:50,464 --> 00:16:52,693
about Marriage and family. I wrote people books,

451
00:16:52,852 --> 00:16:54,603
and a lot of my books were sports

452
00:16:54,603 --> 00:16:54,921
books.

453
00:16:55,573 --> 00:16:57,562
Because I still had a a finger in

454
00:16:57,562 --> 00:16:58,278
in that world,

455
00:16:58,915 --> 00:17:01,780
and I wrote, you know, about superstar athletes

456
00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:03,530
who are hall of fame, you know, names

457
00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:06,334
you'd recognize recognized. But at some 0.1 of

458
00:17:06,334 --> 00:17:08,646
my former bosses. And and when I followed

459
00:17:08,646 --> 00:17:09,602
that call by the way,

460
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,154
I was 21, I just got married, I

461
00:17:12,154 --> 00:17:14,001
was still a sports writer, And I thought,

462
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:15,830
I've got to answer that call from my

463
00:17:15,830 --> 00:17:16,864
from age 16.

464
00:17:17,261 --> 00:17:19,590
So I looked for work in Christian journalism

465
00:17:20,124 --> 00:17:22,509
and became a Sunday school papers editor for

466
00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:22,987
prescription press.

467
00:17:23,796 --> 00:17:25,804
But 1 of my former bosses there

468
00:17:26,256 --> 00:17:28,002
got asked to write a book about Hank

469
00:17:28,081 --> 00:17:30,700
Aaron and his faith. Well Aaron was a

470
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:31,732
a devout catholic.

471
00:17:32,383 --> 00:17:34,690
My boss was a, a part time pastor,

472
00:17:34,770 --> 00:17:36,520
and so they wanted him to write this

473
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,589
faith part of the book. But he asked

474
00:17:38,589 --> 00:17:40,101
me he said, would you help me write

475
00:17:40,101 --> 00:17:41,317
this? He said, because

476
00:17:41,708 --> 00:17:44,174
I don't know that much about football. And

477
00:17:44,254 --> 00:17:44,572
I said,

478
00:17:46,005 --> 00:17:47,516
if you think Hank aaron as a football

479
00:17:47,516 --> 00:17:49,665
player, you don't know much about football or

480
00:17:49,665 --> 00:17:50,063
baseball.

481
00:17:51,111 --> 00:17:53,173
And, you know, having been a sports rider,

482
00:17:53,887 --> 00:17:56,346
I was just nearly overcome when I got

483
00:17:56,346 --> 00:17:58,250
to meet Hand, Aaron and interview him with

484
00:17:58,250 --> 00:18:00,570
my boss. And the boss handled the spiritual

485
00:18:00,570 --> 00:18:02,480
questions and I handled the baseball questions, which

486
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,026
is when Hank really came alive. He loved

487
00:18:05,026 --> 00:18:07,834
talking about that step. But that same boss

488
00:18:08,463 --> 00:18:08,860
later,

489
00:18:09,496 --> 00:18:12,040
was assigned to edit a group of fiction

490
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:12,540
books

491
00:18:12,994 --> 00:18:13,789
for a publisher,

492
00:18:14,346 --> 00:18:15,935
and he needed 1 more title and he

493
00:18:15,935 --> 00:18:17,446
said if you ever considered fiction.

494
00:18:18,098 --> 00:18:19,771
I'd written a few short stories, and I

495
00:18:19,771 --> 00:18:21,125
thought I I didn't know if I would

496
00:18:21,125 --> 00:18:23,277
have be a novel, but I'll try it.

497
00:18:23,436 --> 00:18:24,791
So I took 1 of those short stories

498
00:18:24,791 --> 00:18:25,291
and

499
00:18:25,667 --> 00:18:27,181
extrapolate it made it longer.

500
00:18:28,073 --> 00:18:30,624
And it really did well. It was really

501
00:18:30,624 --> 00:18:31,102
surprising.

502
00:18:31,820 --> 00:18:32,936
It was called Margo,

503
00:18:33,414 --> 00:18:34,929
and it was just a sort of a

504
00:18:34,929 --> 00:18:36,697
love story, but it was about a a

505
00:18:36,697 --> 00:18:38,287
girl and a... And it was narrated by

506
00:18:38,287 --> 00:18:39,876
her boyfriend who became her husband,

507
00:18:40,512 --> 00:18:43,055
they became sort of private detectives and that

508
00:18:43,055 --> 00:18:43,453
type of thing.

509
00:18:44,183 --> 00:18:46,589
And it did about a hundred thousand copies

510
00:18:46,725 --> 00:18:48,336
when with this this publisher

511
00:18:48,869 --> 00:18:50,696
and became a 13 book series, and that

512
00:18:50,696 --> 00:18:52,228
really got me started. So

513
00:18:52,856 --> 00:18:55,163
Now I'm working on my 200 and tenth

514
00:18:55,163 --> 00:18:57,549
of book, I think, and 2 thirds of

515
00:18:57,549 --> 00:18:58,981
those now have been fiction.

516
00:18:59,634 --> 00:19:01,628
Mostly because of the visibility of the left

517
00:19:01,628 --> 00:19:03,065
behind series and success of that.

518
00:19:03,703 --> 00:19:06,018
But left behind was was my hundred and

519
00:19:06,018 --> 00:19:06,895
20 fifth title.

520
00:19:07,467 --> 00:19:08,736
Now some people like to say we'll let,

521
00:19:09,132 --> 00:19:11,432
that's the opposite of an overnight success. I

522
00:19:11,432 --> 00:19:13,177
had a lot of successful books in those

523
00:19:13,177 --> 00:19:14,604
first hundred and 25. In fact,

524
00:19:15,333 --> 00:19:16,527
1 of them I think it was my

525
00:19:16,527 --> 00:19:19,549
70 fifth oral Hers book about the pitcher.

526
00:19:20,027 --> 00:19:21,538
That was my first New York times best

527
00:19:21,538 --> 00:19:22,038
seller

528
00:19:22,428 --> 00:19:24,498
And I had also assisted Billy Graham with

529
00:19:24,498 --> 00:19:26,409
his memoirs, which is a huge, you know,

530
00:19:26,886 --> 00:19:29,036
success. So I I had a great career

531
00:19:29,036 --> 00:19:29,991
and was doing well.

532
00:19:30,724 --> 00:19:33,201
But nothing like left behind when that finally

533
00:19:33,201 --> 00:19:35,678
get at the at that stage. Jerry, there's

534
00:19:35,678 --> 00:19:37,676
a word that you've used to to describe

535
00:19:37,676 --> 00:19:39,849
your career, and that's that's the word I

536
00:19:39,849 --> 00:19:42,086
really like which is journey man. You've said

537
00:19:42,166 --> 00:19:43,924
I'm a journey man writer,

538
00:19:44,483 --> 00:19:47,040
which I really like because it means that

539
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,449
you are stretching those creative muscles in all

540
00:19:49,449 --> 00:19:51,762
these different genres, not just fiction and non

541
00:19:51,762 --> 00:19:54,873
fiction, but so many different genres in between,

542
00:19:55,271 --> 00:19:57,345
which is something that I think Christian fans

543
00:19:57,345 --> 00:20:00,074
of fantastical stories may want to be aware.

544
00:20:00,393 --> 00:20:03,106
It's not just that a creator plugs into

545
00:20:03,106 --> 00:20:05,022
1 type of book and then stays there

546
00:20:05,022 --> 00:20:05,660
the rest of your life.

547
00:20:06,394 --> 00:20:08,471
With your devotion to your craft. Like, you've

548
00:20:08,471 --> 00:20:11,348
managed to do so many different kinds of

549
00:20:11,348 --> 00:20:13,265
genres. And, yeah, I was surprised when I

550
00:20:13,265 --> 00:20:15,908
found out that left behind which released in

551
00:20:15,908 --> 00:20:17,681
the late 19 95

552
00:20:17,977 --> 00:20:19,806
was your 120

553
00:20:19,806 --> 00:20:20,681
fifth book.

554
00:20:21,333 --> 00:20:23,964
I'm curious about the backstory of that book.

555
00:20:24,123 --> 00:20:25,957
I mean, I'm I'm aware of, the,

556
00:20:26,754 --> 00:20:28,827
the agent who approach you about that,

557
00:20:29,719 --> 00:20:31,947
working with doctor Tim La, the late to

558
00:20:31,947 --> 00:20:33,619
doctor Him Tim La, who who's now with

559
00:20:33,937 --> 00:20:36,325
now with Jesus. But do you remember when

560
00:20:36,325 --> 00:20:39,031
that was, like, what year and what happened

561
00:20:39,031 --> 00:20:41,040
when you first heard that original pitch of,

562
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,715
hey. We don't want you to write, you

563
00:20:42,715 --> 00:20:45,189
know, with Billy Graham now or Hank Aaron

564
00:20:45,189 --> 00:20:46,146
or anybody like that.

565
00:20:46,879 --> 00:20:48,309
What what do you think about writing an

566
00:20:48,309 --> 00:20:50,535
end times thriller? Like, when was that and

567
00:20:50,535 --> 00:20:51,330
what was your response?

568
00:20:52,045 --> 00:20:54,111
That was in the early nineties. The sort

569
00:20:54,111 --> 00:20:56,509
of of partly a parker story I tell

570
00:20:56,509 --> 00:20:57,304
is that my agent.

571
00:20:58,019 --> 00:20:59,528
Asked if I was aware of doctor Lane

572
00:20:59,607 --> 00:21:01,276
Of course I was. In fact, 1 of

573
00:21:01,276 --> 00:21:03,738
the magazines I published had a column from

574
00:21:03,738 --> 00:21:06,862
him but I'd never met him. And my

575
00:21:06,862 --> 00:21:09,175
agent said, well, he's a non fiction best

576
00:21:09,175 --> 00:21:11,727
selling author, who has a great fiction idea

577
00:21:11,727 --> 00:21:14,255
and you're a novice with no ideas. So

578
00:21:14,453 --> 00:21:15,408
get you guys together.

579
00:21:16,602 --> 00:21:18,830
It turned out that doctor L was almost

580
00:21:18,830 --> 00:21:20,978
the exact same as my parents. So there

581
00:21:20,978 --> 00:21:23,047
was a father son sort of dynamic there.

582
00:21:23,699 --> 00:21:25,051
And I did love his idea.

583
00:21:25,926 --> 00:21:28,313
I had been telling rapture stories since I

584
00:21:28,313 --> 00:21:30,541
was a teenager. In fact, that same camp

585
00:21:30,541 --> 00:21:32,451
where I went forward to answer the call

586
00:21:32,451 --> 00:21:34,778
to full time work. I had a a

587
00:21:34,778 --> 00:21:37,010
group of of young kids of when I

588
00:21:37,010 --> 00:21:37,648
was counseling.

589
00:21:38,286 --> 00:21:40,838
And, for devotion, I would say, imagine if

590
00:21:40,838 --> 00:21:41,635
the rapture happened,

591
00:21:42,287 --> 00:21:42,525
today,

592
00:21:43,161 --> 00:21:44,829
and people are on the on the freeway

593
00:21:44,829 --> 00:21:46,180
and they had disappear out of their cars

594
00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:47,609
and the cars crash and that type of

595
00:21:47,609 --> 00:21:49,993
thing. So I was raising the same traditions

596
00:21:49,993 --> 00:21:51,518
as doctor La hey, we were both raised

597
00:21:51,518 --> 00:21:54,538
in Michigan ironically. Our mothers led us to

598
00:21:54,538 --> 00:21:56,286
to faith in in Christ. So we had

599
00:21:56,286 --> 00:21:57,876
a lot in common. He was a senator

600
00:21:57,876 --> 00:21:59,640
of a pole guy. He, you know, you

601
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,707
knew where he stood. I'm I'm more of

602
00:22:01,707 --> 00:22:04,808
a diplomat, but, I always really appreciated him,

603
00:22:04,887 --> 00:22:06,716
and and we got a along great. I

604
00:22:06,716 --> 00:22:09,273
love the idea. And it it came right

605
00:22:09,273 --> 00:22:10,941
around the time. I remember when we we

606
00:22:10,941 --> 00:22:12,847
signed the contract with Tin dale, and we

607
00:22:12,847 --> 00:22:14,991
talked about the division of labor, he did

608
00:22:14,991 --> 00:22:17,190
not want our write 1 word in that

609
00:22:17,309 --> 00:22:19,227
series because he was not a fiction writer.

610
00:22:19,866 --> 00:22:21,544
He... He just wanted to serve as a

611
00:22:21,544 --> 00:22:23,461
sort of theologian and scholar and keep me

612
00:22:23,461 --> 00:22:24,340
on track that way.

613
00:22:24,994 --> 00:22:27,389
And so it worked great. We didn't sc

614
00:22:27,389 --> 00:22:29,545
over, you know, how to write or that

615
00:22:29,545 --> 00:22:31,780
type of thing. He was great cheerleader. He

616
00:22:31,780 --> 00:22:33,537
would say send me more. I wanna see

617
00:22:33,537 --> 00:22:35,861
what happens myself. But just before I was

618
00:22:35,861 --> 00:22:38,086
to write that book, the first book was

619
00:22:38,086 --> 00:22:40,550
just gonna be 1 book, a big book

620
00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:41,845
about the rapture and the

621
00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:43,673
tribulation. I asked him

622
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:45,807
what audience are we trying to reach? Are

623
00:22:45,807 --> 00:22:47,156
we trying to reach the people who agree

624
00:22:47,156 --> 00:22:48,901
with us and we would just be encouraged

625
00:22:48,901 --> 00:22:51,042
by this and in their faith? Or are

626
00:22:51,042 --> 00:22:53,779
we trying to to educate the uni.

627
00:22:54,786 --> 00:22:55,818
And he said both,

628
00:22:56,453 --> 00:22:58,357
and I remembered saying to him, you know,

629
00:22:59,404 --> 00:23:01,232
a double minded book is on unstable in

630
00:23:01,232 --> 00:23:02,742
all its ways. Yeah. I mean,

631
00:23:03,855 --> 00:23:05,206
you really need to pick an audience.

632
00:23:05,683 --> 00:23:07,925
And right around that time, I got a

633
00:23:07,925 --> 00:23:09,460
call from Lab billy Graham

634
00:23:10,075 --> 00:23:11,929
association, and they started

635
00:23:12,305 --> 00:23:14,455
looking for somebody to assist mister graham with

636
00:23:14,455 --> 00:23:15,012
his memoirs.

637
00:23:15,983 --> 00:23:18,692
And they chose me. And so I remember

638
00:23:18,692 --> 00:23:20,684
talking to doctor. Hey, to Tin dale saying,

639
00:23:21,162 --> 00:23:22,835
I'm gonna need to put off this writing

640
00:23:22,835 --> 00:23:24,269
for a year if I'm gonna take this

641
00:23:24,269 --> 00:23:25,487
grand assignment

642
00:23:25,955 --> 00:23:27,938
And I think if Tin dale or doctor

643
00:23:28,017 --> 00:23:28,517
Le

644
00:23:29,047 --> 00:23:31,188
had realized what left behind was to become,

645
00:23:31,346 --> 00:23:33,505
they would not have allowed this delay. But

646
00:23:33,505 --> 00:23:34,785
they said, oh, you have to take that.

647
00:23:35,025 --> 00:23:37,105
That's that's the privilege of lifetime and it

648
00:23:37,105 --> 00:23:37,345
was.

649
00:23:37,904 --> 00:23:40,144
So it's about 13 months working with doctor

650
00:23:40,304 --> 00:23:40,544
Graham.

651
00:23:41,278 --> 00:23:43,985
And, during that time, I kept asking Tim

652
00:23:43,985 --> 00:23:46,374
hey. Have you settled on the audience, and

653
00:23:46,374 --> 00:23:48,364
he would not budge. He said I really

654
00:23:48,364 --> 00:23:49,001
wanna reach both.

655
00:23:49,573 --> 00:23:51,800
So that became the challenge to to sit

656
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,948
in the at the keyboard, where my finally

657
00:23:53,948 --> 00:23:54,425
did start.

658
00:23:55,141 --> 00:23:57,900
And after having that year plus with with

659
00:23:58,099 --> 00:24:00,091
you know, 1 of the greatest evangelist in

660
00:24:00,091 --> 00:24:00,591
history

661
00:24:01,206 --> 00:24:02,560
that informed the writing,

662
00:24:03,278 --> 00:24:04,871
but how do you reach both markets?

663
00:24:05,364 --> 00:24:07,189
And really, I think the secret came and

664
00:24:07,189 --> 00:24:09,832
having the rapture occur in the first chapter

665
00:24:09,967 --> 00:24:10,920
of that first book.

666
00:24:11,714 --> 00:24:14,150
Because then all the evangelical with all their

667
00:24:14,508 --> 00:24:15,944
Cliches and Lingo were gone.

668
00:24:16,582 --> 00:24:18,257
And the people who are left, there were

669
00:24:18,257 --> 00:24:20,570
still some people who knew what had happened

670
00:24:20,570 --> 00:24:22,484
because they'd missed it. They heard the story

671
00:24:22,484 --> 00:24:23,601
and they rejected it.

672
00:24:24,254 --> 00:24:25,288
Now they're left behind.

673
00:24:25,845 --> 00:24:27,436
And so they're trying to tell the rest

674
00:24:27,436 --> 00:24:29,743
of the world who had... Was not initiated.

675
00:24:30,380 --> 00:24:31,119
What happened

676
00:24:31,748 --> 00:24:33,816
I had this idea that the skeptics need

677
00:24:33,816 --> 00:24:34,713
to be credible

678
00:24:35,248 --> 00:24:36,998
because that's where the leadership is gonna be.

679
00:24:37,793 --> 00:24:39,305
And when they say how can you blame

680
00:24:39,305 --> 00:24:41,150
this on God, it why would god do

681
00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:42,423
this and create this chaos.

682
00:24:43,060 --> 00:24:44,731
And then I didn't wanna have all the

683
00:24:44,731 --> 00:24:45,470
the skeptics

684
00:24:45,925 --> 00:24:48,805
miraculously become believers and grow up to be

685
00:24:48,805 --> 00:24:50,555
missionaries and have kids that did the same.

686
00:24:51,191 --> 00:24:53,021
And so I think that was the secret

687
00:24:53,021 --> 00:24:54,952
to reaching both markets is that,

688
00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:57,805
the people who were with us anyway were

689
00:24:57,805 --> 00:24:59,156
intrigued to see how it would play out.

690
00:24:59,712 --> 00:25:01,222
But the people who were new to this

691
00:25:01,222 --> 00:25:03,782
were like, yeah. I identify with the people

692
00:25:03,782 --> 00:25:06,088
who who are doubting this and wondering about

693
00:25:06,088 --> 00:25:06,588
this

694
00:25:06,963 --> 00:25:09,372
and seeing that they were credible plus

695
00:25:09,763 --> 00:25:11,595
many of them remain skeptics, which in real

696
00:25:11,595 --> 00:25:13,347
life is true. Not everybody we share our

697
00:25:13,347 --> 00:25:15,339
faith with comes to faith. In fact most

698
00:25:15,339 --> 00:25:15,896
of them don't.

699
00:25:16,533 --> 00:25:18,126
And so that was kind of the secret

700
00:25:18,126 --> 00:25:20,237
there. I love how you turned the rapture

701
00:25:20,296 --> 00:25:22,371
into a mystery. Almost like a murder mystery.

702
00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:24,207
The the way you put it, it happens

703
00:25:24,207 --> 00:25:26,601
right away. It kind of happens off screen

704
00:25:26,601 --> 00:25:27,080
in the sense.

705
00:25:27,732 --> 00:25:29,320
And that no 1 really sees it happen.

706
00:25:29,558 --> 00:25:31,067
I mean, they see the people disappear, but

707
00:25:31,067 --> 00:25:33,369
they don't know how they're disappearing. And it

708
00:25:33,369 --> 00:25:35,116
just occurred to me that right around that

709
00:25:35,116 --> 00:25:36,227
same time you were writing that,

710
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,099
is when the Stephen King movie, the Lang

711
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:41,359
came to Tv.

712
00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:43,679
I saw it on television. It was around

713
00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:44,319
mid nineties.

714
00:25:44,972 --> 00:25:46,322
I didn't see it because I was a

715
00:25:46,401 --> 00:25:46,798
Christian.

716
00:25:48,148 --> 00:25:49,418
I wanted to go to heaven. Yeah.

717
00:25:50,133 --> 00:25:50,530
Exactly.

718
00:25:51,641 --> 00:25:53,491
And, but there was a similar

719
00:25:54,038 --> 00:25:56,022
type of device in that movie is that

720
00:25:56,022 --> 00:25:57,451
these people wake up on a plane and

721
00:25:57,451 --> 00:25:58,642
a lot of people are missing.

722
00:25:59,356 --> 00:26:00,864
And so they're trying to figure out where

723
00:26:00,864 --> 00:26:03,264
did everyone go and then they the plain

724
00:26:03,264 --> 00:26:04,942
lands and, like, there's no 1 at the

725
00:26:04,942 --> 00:26:06,619
airport. And then all of a sudden, there

726
00:26:06,619 --> 00:26:08,377
these weird creatures that come out of nowhere

727
00:26:08,377 --> 00:26:10,075
and start, you know, eating people

728
00:26:10,628 --> 00:26:12,782
It's it's basically like a time travel time

729
00:26:12,782 --> 00:26:13,818
slip type story.

730
00:26:14,536 --> 00:26:16,870
But I think your your book was perfectly

731
00:26:16,929 --> 00:26:18,922
timed to come out right around that time

732
00:26:18,922 --> 00:26:21,089
period where And and it's just interesting to

733
00:26:21,089 --> 00:26:23,241
think this is pre 09:11. Right? In the

734
00:26:23,241 --> 00:26:26,269
nineties, we weren't really as nervous about airplane

735
00:26:26,269 --> 00:26:27,487
travel as we were

736
00:26:27,956 --> 00:26:30,122
in the the early 2 thousands, although

737
00:26:30,573 --> 00:26:33,349
sure that helped. When the book started selling,

738
00:26:33,745 --> 00:26:35,545
you know, nowadays, everyone's worried about

739
00:26:35,901 --> 00:26:37,803
the airplane door coming off or the wheels

740
00:26:37,803 --> 00:26:40,498
coming off, but not people disappearing necessarily. Right.

741
00:26:41,053 --> 00:26:43,289
Right. Were were you familiar with that that

742
00:26:43,368 --> 00:26:45,044
Stephen King's story. I know you've talked and

743
00:26:45,044 --> 00:26:47,198
other talks about getting to know Stephen King.

744
00:26:47,437 --> 00:26:49,192
Had you read, I think is called 4

745
00:26:49,192 --> 00:26:49,830
past midnight?

746
00:26:50,484 --> 00:26:52,319
Was the book other that inspired that movie?

747
00:26:52,878 --> 00:26:54,953
Yeah. I had not become a a king

748
00:26:54,953 --> 00:26:57,028
fan yet. I I became a fan of

749
00:26:57,028 --> 00:26:58,246
of Stephen King

750
00:26:59,038 --> 00:27:00,255
with the green mile

751
00:27:00,712 --> 00:27:03,504
and misery, and was like that. And then

752
00:27:03,504 --> 00:27:04,780
it was interesting that we were sort of

753
00:27:04,780 --> 00:27:05,737
writing on the same theme.

754
00:27:06,854 --> 00:27:09,497
Yeah. At different points. And I think what

755
00:27:09,497 --> 00:27:11,167
what happened in mid nineties even though we

756
00:27:11,167 --> 00:27:12,598
had... We did not have this in mind

757
00:27:12,598 --> 00:27:12,996
at all.

758
00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:15,699
It was close enough to the turn the

759
00:27:15,699 --> 00:27:16,199
century

760
00:27:16,908 --> 00:27:19,459
that people started looking forward to that that

761
00:27:19,459 --> 00:27:21,474
millennium change, the White.

762
00:27:22,090 --> 00:27:23,365
Yeah. It wasn't just the end of the

763
00:27:23,365 --> 00:27:24,561
century at the end of the millennium.

764
00:27:25,134 --> 00:27:27,601
And for some reason, people associated that with

765
00:27:27,601 --> 00:27:29,670
the end of the world. We didn't we

766
00:27:29,670 --> 00:27:31,102
didn't think that had anything to do with

767
00:27:31,102 --> 00:27:33,267
it, but it became sort of fever pitch

768
00:27:33,267 --> 00:27:35,182
and and by then, the left behind sears

769
00:27:35,182 --> 00:27:36,458
is about 5 years old,

770
00:27:37,175 --> 00:27:38,393
and there was a huge

771
00:27:38,771 --> 00:27:40,845
increase in bump in sales even then because

772
00:27:40,845 --> 00:27:41,163
of that.

773
00:27:42,694 --> 00:27:45,011
And, you know, I'm I'm not sure why

774
00:27:45,011 --> 00:27:46,529
that... Why people thought that,

775
00:27:47,328 --> 00:27:47,648
but

776
00:27:48,287 --> 00:27:49,805
it it certainly helped marketing.

777
00:27:50,777 --> 00:27:53,906
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778
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794
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revealed

807
00:29:02,654 --> 00:29:05,049
or pre order directly from the publisher at

808
00:29:05,049 --> 00:29:07,044
faye at press dot com to get a

809
00:29:07,044 --> 00:29:10,716
signed copy and some super sweet swag to

810
00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:13,041
learn more see that cover, go to em

811
00:29:13,041 --> 00:29:15,588
hawk dot com or the show notes for

812
00:29:15,588 --> 00:29:17,419
this episode 221.

813
00:29:18,135 --> 00:29:21,017
Well, from there, let's move chapter 2 mid

814
00:29:21,017 --> 00:29:22,212
left behind series.

815
00:29:22,849 --> 00:29:26,194
Jerry Jenkins now in our time a recapture

816
00:29:26,194 --> 00:29:28,027
here has gone from times thriller.

817
00:29:28,757 --> 00:29:31,771
To wrap a sales. Now, first, Jerry, I

818
00:29:31,771 --> 00:29:33,517
want to be a bit of a fan

819
00:29:33,517 --> 00:29:36,550
boy here and share that I picked up

820
00:29:36,550 --> 00:29:38,463
my first copy of left behind after it

821
00:29:38,463 --> 00:29:40,375
had already gone to paper back, and I

822
00:29:40,375 --> 00:29:42,526
believe it was summer 19 97,

823
00:29:43,179 --> 00:29:45,576
At a bible theme park in Eureka Springs

824
00:29:46,295 --> 00:29:48,851
Arkansas, and at about that same time, doctor

825
00:29:48,931 --> 00:29:49,570
David Jeremiah,

826
00:29:50,304 --> 00:29:52,615
on the radio was going through a end

827
00:29:52,615 --> 00:29:56,062
times series, and he also shares the pre

828
00:29:56,359 --> 00:29:59,249
tribulation view of the rapture, the End times

829
00:29:59,546 --> 00:30:02,502
antichrist you know, long and glorious tradition of

830
00:30:02,502 --> 00:30:03,376
a, a Christian

831
00:30:04,171 --> 00:30:06,238
trying to map out the timeline there. And

832
00:30:06,238 --> 00:30:07,453
so I was

833
00:30:07,763 --> 00:30:09,909
really interested in this topic and remain so

834
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:11,498
to this day. And then lo and behold

835
00:30:11,498 --> 00:30:13,406
wow. There's a novel about this. And then

836
00:30:13,485 --> 00:30:14,859
I pick up the back cover

837
00:30:15,328 --> 00:30:17,579
and it says, you know, in in 1

838
00:30:17,875 --> 00:30:19,068
flash of a moment or something like that,

839
00:30:19,148 --> 00:30:21,853
people across the world disappear, those left behind

840
00:30:21,853 --> 00:30:23,922
must reckon with and so on and so

841
00:30:23,922 --> 00:30:24,081
forth.

842
00:30:24,733 --> 00:30:26,327
And I will believe at the time I

843
00:30:26,327 --> 00:30:28,717
was a... Yeah. I was definitely a teenager

844
00:30:28,717 --> 00:30:29,673
in 19 97.

845
00:30:30,231 --> 00:30:32,634
And my parents sought thought about it. And

846
00:30:32,634 --> 00:30:34,623
they'll, oh, well, Tim La, you know, he's

847
00:30:34,623 --> 00:30:36,611
solid. So, yeah, Go ahead. I got the

848
00:30:36,611 --> 00:30:38,598
book and, of course, instant fan and then

849
00:30:38,598 --> 00:30:41,143
realized even in these very early dial up

850
00:30:41,382 --> 00:30:42,351
Internet day Oh, wow,

851
00:30:43,066 --> 00:30:45,212
there's already a sequel. And then I think

852
00:30:45,212 --> 00:30:47,915
it was that November or that fall season

853
00:30:47,915 --> 00:30:49,028
that the nikola eye.

854
00:30:49,917 --> 00:30:51,981
Also released. So I had 2 paper backs

855
00:30:51,981 --> 00:30:55,078
and 1 hard back and the inconsistency on

856
00:30:55,078 --> 00:30:56,983
my books office haunted me to this day.

857
00:30:57,633 --> 00:30:59,145
I have all 12 volumes,

858
00:30:59,702 --> 00:31:02,429
plus the 3 pre equals. Y'all all also

859
00:31:02,565 --> 00:31:04,450
eventually wrote a a book that was set

860
00:31:04,887 --> 00:31:06,319
during the millennial kingdom.

861
00:31:07,115 --> 00:31:09,184
At so 16 books at all in the

862
00:31:09,184 --> 00:31:11,651
grown up series, and then they also came

863
00:31:11,651 --> 00:31:13,742
match and said, hey, why don't you do

864
00:31:13,893 --> 00:31:15,662
we would call it now a Y

865
00:31:16,510 --> 00:31:18,414
version of left behind. So you got the

866
00:31:18,414 --> 00:31:19,365
kids left behind.

867
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,348
4 smaller books,

868
00:31:21,918 --> 00:31:23,907
1 for each of the 12 books made

869
00:31:23,907 --> 00:31:26,850
48 books in all, then eventually y'all got

870
00:31:26,929 --> 00:31:29,554
Chris Fa on board to help out with

871
00:31:29,554 --> 00:31:29,792
that.

872
00:31:30,844 --> 00:31:34,839
That is an incredible phenomenon. Even before those

873
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,156
books start hitting the New York Times best

874
00:31:37,156 --> 00:31:39,888
seller list, which I think happened with a

875
00:31:40,128 --> 00:31:42,286
Poly in 19 98.

876
00:31:43,485 --> 00:31:45,023
What's it like then

877
00:31:45,403 --> 00:31:45,903
riding

878
00:31:46,282 --> 00:31:48,040
this this phenomenon?

879
00:31:48,454 --> 00:31:49,573
And and by the way,

880
00:31:50,611 --> 00:31:53,647
fulfilling the late doctor Leah hope and insistence

881
00:31:53,647 --> 00:31:56,697
on reaching both audiences, which breaks the rule

882
00:31:56,697 --> 00:31:58,053
by the way. Like, you're right, and you

883
00:31:58,053 --> 00:31:59,488
actually say writing for the soul. Like, hey,

884
00:31:59,807 --> 00:32:01,562
this is the exception that proves the rule

885
00:32:01,562 --> 00:32:03,317
you guys. You know, we we we caught

886
00:32:03,317 --> 00:32:04,992
lightning in a bottle, but don't try this

887
00:32:04,992 --> 00:32:07,105
at home. But what's it like

888
00:32:07,565 --> 00:32:09,025
discovering this kind of

889
00:32:09,404 --> 00:32:11,644
boost to your career in a genre that

890
00:32:11,724 --> 00:32:13,859
I'm sure you never fore saw

891
00:32:14,458 --> 00:32:16,215
yourself riding when you're starting off with a

892
00:32:16,215 --> 00:32:16,933
sports journalism.

893
00:32:17,811 --> 00:32:20,068
Yeah. It was bizarre, and

894
00:32:20,606 --> 00:32:22,362
you know, having been our writer for so

895
00:32:22,362 --> 00:32:24,609
long at that point. You know, I I

896
00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:26,596
was an old veteran of the business, then

897
00:32:26,756 --> 00:32:28,107
Mean I was only in my mid forties

898
00:32:28,107 --> 00:32:28,743
at that time.

899
00:32:29,459 --> 00:32:31,208
But as I say, a hundred and 25

900
00:32:31,208 --> 00:32:31,447
books.

901
00:32:32,097 --> 00:32:32,415
So

902
00:32:32,971 --> 00:32:35,060
Ty sent me a framed

903
00:32:35,831 --> 00:32:37,602
presentation of the first 3 covers

904
00:32:38,612 --> 00:32:41,089
because the first 3 titles had totaled a

905
00:32:41,089 --> 00:32:43,155
million in sales after, you know,

906
00:32:43,871 --> 00:32:45,539
I think soon after the third 1 came

907
00:32:45,539 --> 00:32:47,549
out. And I can remember

908
00:32:48,019 --> 00:32:50,096
feeling pretty good about myself when I got

909
00:32:50,096 --> 00:32:52,574
that. I remember thinking, hey, I've kinda of

910
00:32:52,574 --> 00:32:54,411
pulled something off here. Look at that, how

911
00:32:54,411 --> 00:32:57,057
many people Have written any book that's sold,

912
00:32:57,137 --> 00:32:59,285
you know, in in the hundreds thousands let

913
00:32:59,285 --> 00:32:59,524
alone,

914
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,149
3 that combined for a million and I

915
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:04,456
thought. Yeah. I think I've finally arrived, you

916
00:33:04,456 --> 00:33:07,335
know, Then the publisher at Ty called me,

917
00:33:07,494 --> 00:33:08,210
and he said,

918
00:33:09,403 --> 00:33:10,460
have you checked

919
00:33:11,074 --> 00:33:11,574
Amazon

920
00:33:12,363 --> 00:33:14,915
on book 4. I said, well, it hasn't

921
00:33:14,915 --> 00:33:16,670
been released yet. Right? Because, yeah, we're gonna

922
00:33:16,670 --> 00:33:17,547
release it in 2 weeks.

923
00:33:18,265 --> 00:33:20,020
He said I think he should check. And

924
00:33:20,020 --> 00:33:21,636
so I checked Amazon

925
00:33:22,267 --> 00:33:24,890
and it was number 1 on Amazon. And,

926
00:33:24,970 --> 00:33:25,946
you know, they published

927
00:33:26,321 --> 00:33:27,116
millions of books.

928
00:33:27,831 --> 00:33:29,342
This is just pre sales.

929
00:33:29,992 --> 00:33:31,976
It had a really strange effect on me.

930
00:33:32,532 --> 00:33:34,778
It it had the opposite effect of that

931
00:33:34,833 --> 00:33:37,134
presentation they sent to me. It just laid

932
00:33:37,134 --> 00:33:38,007
me. It was, like,

933
00:33:38,737 --> 00:33:40,246
I was getting kicked in the rear, and

934
00:33:40,246 --> 00:33:43,503
it was like. Wow. Don't ever again take

935
00:33:43,503 --> 00:33:46,443
credit for this. This is way beyond you.

936
00:33:47,093 --> 00:33:48,044
This is a god thing.

937
00:33:48,678 --> 00:33:50,842
Just hang on for dear life. And

938
00:33:51,372 --> 00:33:52,799
and it really it really did humble me.

939
00:33:53,037 --> 00:33:53,988
I mean, it just was, like,

940
00:33:55,196 --> 00:33:57,188
never again, when I go, well, I've done

941
00:33:57,188 --> 00:33:57,746
something here.

942
00:33:58,622 --> 00:34:01,092
Clearly, God was doing something there. And and

943
00:34:01,092 --> 00:34:03,106
it became such an avalanche

944
00:34:03,642 --> 00:34:04,142
of

945
00:34:04,453 --> 00:34:06,622
of income of means

946
00:34:07,393 --> 00:34:09,006
of sales of

947
00:34:09,777 --> 00:34:11,310
letters and and

948
00:34:12,177 --> 00:34:13,847
emails and all that type of thing. I

949
00:34:13,847 --> 00:34:15,517
had made a commitment early in my career

950
00:34:15,517 --> 00:34:16,972
that I would answer every

951
00:34:17,347 --> 00:34:18,563
every piece of mail

952
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:20,700
that that came to me personally.

953
00:34:21,177 --> 00:34:22,210
And I maintained that?

954
00:34:23,004 --> 00:34:23,742
That's been

955
00:34:25,069 --> 00:34:28,028
tens of thousands of responses to to emails

956
00:34:28,028 --> 00:34:30,583
and letters or or the years. Admittedly, I'll

957
00:34:30,583 --> 00:34:32,578
use some boiler plate paragraphs or something, but

958
00:34:32,658 --> 00:34:34,255
I I make it personal to use a

959
00:34:34,255 --> 00:34:36,331
person's name and thank them and that type

960
00:34:36,331 --> 00:34:37,025
of thing, but

961
00:34:37,463 --> 00:34:38,978
that became a commitment that

962
00:34:39,856 --> 00:34:40,813
I might not have made it if I

963
00:34:40,813 --> 00:34:42,010
don't know how many of these are gonna

964
00:34:42,010 --> 00:34:43,764
sell. I don't get it. And now you've

965
00:34:43,764 --> 00:34:45,679
made that commitment to every faithful listener of

966
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:46,317
this podcast.

967
00:34:47,129 --> 00:34:49,123
Now. Here we go. But

968
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,754
the irony is that, you know, here we

969
00:34:51,754 --> 00:34:54,624
are... It'll be 29 years in August since

970
00:34:54,624 --> 00:34:55,740
that first title came out.

971
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:58,802
That series is still selling

972
00:34:59,256 --> 00:35:01,960
around between 10 and 15000 units a month

973
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:02,677
to this day.

974
00:35:03,489 --> 00:35:05,410
Still get letters from people still get emails

975
00:35:05,410 --> 00:35:05,890
from people.

976
00:35:06,929 --> 00:35:08,690
It it just blows me away. You know,

977
00:35:08,929 --> 00:35:10,449
it's not only once in a lifetime thing.

978
00:35:10,610 --> 00:35:12,144
It's a once in a lifetime thing. For

979
00:35:12,144 --> 00:35:15,018
very, very few people. Mh. I just feel

980
00:35:15,018 --> 00:35:18,052
blessed. Yep. So Jerry, the way I discovered

981
00:35:18,052 --> 00:35:19,888
this, series is kind of interesting,

982
00:35:20,367 --> 00:35:22,374
and how I got into it. So first,

983
00:35:22,691 --> 00:35:24,436
I discovered it through the Kirk Cameron movie

984
00:35:24,436 --> 00:35:25,388
in 19 99.

985
00:35:26,181 --> 00:35:28,085
Someone gave me the V dhs tape. I

986
00:35:28,164 --> 00:35:29,512
I don't even remember who or why.

987
00:35:30,084 --> 00:35:31,303
And I had this little

988
00:35:31,682 --> 00:35:33,360
13 inch Tv Vc thing,

989
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,756
in my mom's house, and I came home

990
00:35:35,756 --> 00:35:36,795
for the summer from college.

991
00:35:37,449 --> 00:35:38,648
Popped it in. And I'm like, what's this?

992
00:35:38,887 --> 00:35:41,045
I'd I'd never watched a Christian movie before.

993
00:35:41,605 --> 00:35:43,123
I was only a couple years old in

994
00:35:43,123 --> 00:35:44,641
the faith. I I came to faith after

995
00:35:44,641 --> 00:35:45,920
the lang, so, you know,

996
00:35:47,683 --> 00:35:48,001
But

997
00:35:48,954 --> 00:35:50,781
then throughout college, I had a lot of

998
00:35:50,781 --> 00:35:52,925
friends that were reading the series. I I

999
00:35:52,925 --> 00:35:54,434
went through a period though where I just

1000
00:35:54,434 --> 00:35:55,467
didn't read any fiction.

1001
00:35:56,198 --> 00:35:57,313
And when I was in college and part

1002
00:35:57,313 --> 00:35:58,668
of that was just time, but part of

1003
00:35:58,668 --> 00:35:59,407
it was

1004
00:35:59,862 --> 00:36:01,536
I I grew up reading tons of fantasy

1005
00:36:01,536 --> 00:36:02,731
and I'm like, you know, I think I

1006
00:36:02,731 --> 00:36:04,403
just need to read some theology and kinda

1007
00:36:04,403 --> 00:36:05,041
grow in my faith.

1008
00:36:05,773 --> 00:36:08,003
But then right after college, I went overseas

1009
00:36:08,003 --> 00:36:10,313
as a missionary to to East Asia.

1010
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:13,499
And at the time the big device was

1011
00:36:13,499 --> 00:36:14,296
the palm pilot.

1012
00:36:14,869 --> 00:36:16,150
And so I had a palm pilot,

1013
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:18,710
and there was a ebook store, like, a

1014
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:20,469
very primitive Ebook store that I was able

1015
00:36:20,469 --> 00:36:22,469
to connect to, you know, over the Internet

1016
00:36:22,469 --> 00:36:23,829
from a whole other continent.

1017
00:36:24,482 --> 00:36:25,754
I got a ahold of the left behind

1018
00:36:25,754 --> 00:36:27,503
books because I'm like, alright. I've been hearing

1019
00:36:27,503 --> 00:36:29,172
about these and I just... I need some

1020
00:36:29,172 --> 00:36:29,570
fiction now.

1021
00:36:30,286 --> 00:36:32,273
And man, I just devoured them in a

1022
00:36:32,273 --> 00:36:33,227
few months or something.

1023
00:36:33,958 --> 00:36:35,554
And so I had all those little ebook

1024
00:36:35,554 --> 00:36:37,069
files on that Palm pilot.

1025
00:36:38,186 --> 00:36:40,738
Fast forward a few years, whatever... That name

1026
00:36:40,738 --> 00:36:42,493
of that ebook store was got bought out

1027
00:36:42,493 --> 00:36:43,370
by Barnes Noble,

1028
00:36:44,024 --> 00:36:46,182
and not all of the titles transferred over.

1029
00:36:46,341 --> 00:36:48,019
So I I lost all of them or

1030
00:36:48,179 --> 00:36:49,458
I They still hired from.

1031
00:36:50,337 --> 00:36:50,737
There you go.

1032
00:36:51,855 --> 00:36:52,355
They

1033
00:36:52,829 --> 00:36:55,070
specifically it was like the licensing code or

1034
00:36:55,070 --> 00:36:56,510
whatever that I can't unlock them.

1035
00:36:57,150 --> 00:36:59,070
So finally, over the last couple years, I

1036
00:36:59,070 --> 00:37:01,084
started collecting all of the hard back that

1037
00:37:01,164 --> 00:37:03,317
I was finding it, use bookstores or the

1038
00:37:03,317 --> 00:37:03,796
library.

1039
00:37:04,514 --> 00:37:06,188
They're on the shelf right behind me, it's

1040
00:37:06,188 --> 00:37:06,827
kinda hard to see.

1041
00:37:07,864 --> 00:37:09,299
Because I thought, you know, I really want

1042
00:37:09,299 --> 00:37:10,496
my kids to read these books.

1043
00:37:11,389 --> 00:37:12,985
And and they made such an impression on

1044
00:37:12,985 --> 00:37:14,741
me as a young believer in his a

1045
00:37:14,741 --> 00:37:15,060
missionary.

1046
00:37:15,619 --> 00:37:17,295
What I'm really curious to hear is you

1047
00:37:17,295 --> 00:37:19,985
you mentioned all these correspondence letters you got

1048
00:37:20,263 --> 00:37:22,963
Did you get any from East Asia from,

1049
00:37:23,122 --> 00:37:25,902
you know, believers in China, Japan, Thailand,

1050
00:37:26,537 --> 00:37:28,046
that that sort of area? And do you

1051
00:37:28,046 --> 00:37:30,209
have any favorite stories from that? I don't

1052
00:37:30,209 --> 00:37:33,086
have any stories necessarily from there, but I

1053
00:37:33,086 --> 00:37:34,764
do remember we hear we heard from people

1054
00:37:34,764 --> 00:37:36,921
all over the world. Obviously, the biggest market

1055
00:37:36,921 --> 00:37:38,540
was the United States, but then

1056
00:37:39,013 --> 00:37:41,724
Latin countries, but, yeah, Really, every continent we

1057
00:37:41,724 --> 00:37:44,516
heard from. I've got stories of, you know,

1058
00:37:44,675 --> 00:37:46,589
my favorite stories... They're both happen to be

1059
00:37:46,589 --> 00:37:48,359
from America if you wanna hear them. Good

1060
00:37:48,439 --> 00:37:49,317
Yeah. Happy to. Sure.

1061
00:37:50,195 --> 00:37:52,451
They're they're on, both ends of the

1062
00:37:52,909 --> 00:37:53,867
the age spectrum.

1063
00:37:54,904 --> 00:37:56,601
I hope I can get through these without

1064
00:37:57,234 --> 00:37:58,773
coming to emotional, but

1065
00:37:59,871 --> 00:38:01,649
they they mean so much more than

1066
00:38:02,108 --> 00:38:04,106
income or best seller lists or anything like

1067
00:38:04,106 --> 00:38:06,188
that. But 1 was from a a couple

1068
00:38:06,188 --> 00:38:08,251
who said their teenage son was away from

1069
00:38:08,251 --> 00:38:10,552
the lord and and they were hoping he

1070
00:38:10,552 --> 00:38:11,662
would read left behind.

1071
00:38:12,474 --> 00:38:13,835
So they got it from. They didn't wanna

1072
00:38:13,835 --> 00:38:15,594
push, so they just kinda kept leaving it

1073
00:38:15,594 --> 00:38:17,114
out where he could see it. They said

1074
00:38:17,114 --> 00:38:19,114
1 night, he came home late. He was

1075
00:38:19,114 --> 00:38:21,364
running with a bad crowd and and they've

1076
00:38:21,364 --> 00:38:23,429
been praying for him and. They noticed his

1077
00:38:23,429 --> 00:38:25,176
light was on under under his door of

1078
00:38:25,176 --> 00:38:26,923
his bedroom and that the left behind book

1079
00:38:26,923 --> 00:38:29,148
was gone from the the coffee table in

1080
00:38:29,148 --> 00:38:29,545
living.

1081
00:38:30,514 --> 00:38:32,585
And in the morning, he told him he'd

1082
00:38:32,585 --> 00:38:34,759
read the book. They left out for it

1083
00:38:35,135 --> 00:38:36,968
and that he was gonna come back to

1084
00:38:36,968 --> 00:38:37,446
his faith.

1085
00:38:38,019 --> 00:38:39,532
And he said, I wanna buy a box

1086
00:38:39,532 --> 00:38:40,510
of these books

1087
00:38:41,126 --> 00:38:43,436
for for these these friends of mine that

1088
00:38:43,596 --> 00:38:44,313
I've been running with.

1089
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:46,384
Before he could do that, he was killed

1090
00:38:46,384 --> 00:38:47,101
in a car wreck.

1091
00:38:47,753 --> 00:38:50,141
Oh, my goodness. So his parents both bought

1092
00:38:50,141 --> 00:38:52,608
the books and gave them out to his

1093
00:38:52,608 --> 00:38:54,359
friends at the funeral and several of them

1094
00:38:54,359 --> 00:38:54,836
came to faith.

1095
00:38:55,885 --> 00:38:57,795
And I heard from AAA man who has...

1096
00:38:58,033 --> 00:38:59,965
Said was 95 years old

1097
00:39:00,419 --> 00:39:02,010
and that he had thought he was a

1098
00:39:02,010 --> 00:39:03,521
christian. He was a church gore all his

1099
00:39:03,521 --> 00:39:05,286
life. He said he red left behind. And

1100
00:39:05,286 --> 00:39:07,434
he said, my eyes are so weak at

1101
00:39:07,434 --> 00:39:08,786
this point that I had to read it

1102
00:39:08,786 --> 00:39:10,059
through a magnifying glass.

1103
00:39:11,108 --> 00:39:13,498
And he said, I had finally saw the

1104
00:39:13,498 --> 00:39:15,809
truth. And he said it wasn't because of

1105
00:39:15,809 --> 00:39:16,707
what I saw

1106
00:39:17,163 --> 00:39:18,836
through the glass. It was what I saw

1107
00:39:18,836 --> 00:39:20,111
through my heart. Oh,

1108
00:39:20,921 --> 00:39:21,875
That speaks with you.

1109
00:39:22,510 --> 00:39:22,907
Wow.

1110
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:24,893
That's incredible.

1111
00:39:25,846 --> 00:39:27,672
That is amazing. I mean, I know that

1112
00:39:27,672 --> 00:39:29,995
even in my life, Jerry. God used the

1113
00:39:29,995 --> 00:39:32,228
left behind series not to get me saved,

1114
00:39:32,945 --> 00:39:36,235
but to enjoy him more through the

1115
00:39:36,692 --> 00:39:37,330
imagination, you,

1116
00:39:37,744 --> 00:39:40,796
a a view of prophecy now set to

1117
00:39:41,014 --> 00:39:43,588
fiction of which made it come alive and

1118
00:39:43,646 --> 00:39:45,502
the special effects and the character

1119
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,336
interactions and the complexity

1120
00:39:47,729 --> 00:39:49,882
Yes, left behind Skeptics in our audience.

1121
00:39:50,441 --> 00:39:53,413
I said and will continue to defend complexity

1122
00:39:53,472 --> 00:39:55,864
in the series even though it is intended

1123
00:39:55,864 --> 00:39:58,190
to reach as wide audience is possible that

1124
00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:59,143
is by design.

1125
00:40:00,018 --> 00:40:01,527
Actually Jerry come to think of it the

1126
00:40:01,527 --> 00:40:03,831
very first item I had published in a

1127
00:40:03,831 --> 00:40:04,547
local newspaper.

1128
00:40:05,278 --> 00:40:07,530
Was a defense of the left behind series

1129
00:40:07,987 --> 00:40:11,036
versus some small liberal theologian

1130
00:40:11,492 --> 00:40:12,025
or small

1131
00:40:12,544 --> 00:40:14,461
liberal theologian from a small school who had

1132
00:40:14,461 --> 00:40:17,018
a column in that newspaper, it was the

1133
00:40:17,178 --> 00:40:19,995
Jess journal in Jess County, Kentucky

1134
00:40:20,307 --> 00:40:23,164
based in Nicholas, and this guy was not

1135
00:40:23,164 --> 00:40:25,148
a fan left behind series. It didn't show

1136
00:40:25,227 --> 00:40:26,972
Jesus very loving, and that sort of thing.

1137
00:40:27,704 --> 00:40:29,619
And so, you know, I guess I did

1138
00:40:29,619 --> 00:40:30,896
the thing where I walked in there, and

1139
00:40:31,056 --> 00:40:32,492
I don't remember if I knew your backstory

1140
00:40:32,492 --> 00:40:34,567
at the time, but, hey, I'm I'm a

1141
00:40:34,567 --> 00:40:35,739
writer. I'm I'm gonna

1142
00:40:36,178 --> 00:40:38,252
submit this column and they published it, and

1143
00:40:38,332 --> 00:40:39,767
I learned a I learned a lot about

1144
00:40:39,767 --> 00:40:41,783
it, and eventually got in a local journalism

1145
00:40:41,921 --> 00:40:42,639
myself for a while,

1146
00:40:43,357 --> 00:40:45,431
but people millions of people.

1147
00:40:46,163 --> 00:40:48,869
Embraced these books and enjoyed them and talked

1148
00:40:48,869 --> 00:40:50,860
about them. And there were 12 books in

1149
00:40:50,860 --> 00:40:51,019
all.

1150
00:40:51,736 --> 00:40:53,249
I think it was a Poly that hit

1151
00:40:53,249 --> 00:40:55,257
the New York Times best seller list. And

1152
00:40:55,337 --> 00:40:56,614
I remember because I was watching.

1153
00:40:57,413 --> 00:40:59,249
Soul Harvest booked 4 came out in summer

1154
00:40:59,249 --> 00:41:01,245
19 98. And from there, I was on

1155
00:41:01,325 --> 00:41:04,452
Tinder hooks waiting on each release date. There

1156
00:41:04,452 --> 00:41:07,317
was a fan forum at left behind dot

1157
00:41:07,317 --> 00:41:09,465
com, and that was, I think the first

1158
00:41:09,465 --> 00:41:11,136
fan forum I ever joined.

1159
00:41:11,710 --> 00:41:14,110
I was on there, and I remember I

1160
00:41:14,110 --> 00:41:15,630
about hit the roof

1161
00:41:16,030 --> 00:41:19,364
when a certain, Jerry Jenkins responded to my

1162
00:41:19,563 --> 00:41:22,507
a fake prediction of the rapture in 19

1163
00:41:22,507 --> 00:41:23,325
99

1164
00:41:23,382 --> 00:41:26,007
for the date of April the first 2000,

1165
00:41:27,216 --> 00:41:27,456
and,

1166
00:41:28,093 --> 00:41:30,166
believe you said something like, the the next

1167
00:41:30,166 --> 00:41:32,159
book comes out a few days before. So

1168
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:34,390
if you're right, people better read fast.

1169
00:41:35,202 --> 00:41:37,587
Thank you for that, Jerry. I appreciate that

1170
00:41:37,905 --> 00:41:40,211
so many. So in years later. It was

1171
00:41:40,211 --> 00:41:41,882
really my first fandom, and there's probably a

1172
00:41:41,882 --> 00:41:44,684
lot of Christian first experience with online fandom

1173
00:41:44,684 --> 00:41:46,518
wasn't in the Harry Potter series, but the

1174
00:41:46,518 --> 00:41:48,990
left behind series, but I remember too getting

1175
00:41:48,990 --> 00:41:51,063
a little jealous of this boy wizard from

1176
00:41:51,382 --> 00:41:53,789
England who was us suddenly competing for those

1177
00:41:53,789 --> 00:41:55,941
top slots in the New York Times best

1178
00:41:55,941 --> 00:41:58,332
seller list. Like, this was my sports, Jerry.

1179
00:41:58,571 --> 00:42:00,819
I wanted... My team to win And then

1180
00:42:00,819 --> 00:42:02,656
after a while, New York Times decided, well,

1181
00:42:02,816 --> 00:42:05,053
these are Juvenile and they're just kinda crowding

1182
00:42:05,053 --> 00:42:06,491
out everybody else. So we're gonna put them

1183
00:42:06,491 --> 00:42:08,503
on their own list. So I thought, Yes.

1184
00:42:09,221 --> 00:42:11,695
Left behind sirius has a fighting chance. There

1185
00:42:11,695 --> 00:42:14,269
is a full cast audio drama, which is

1186
00:42:14,487 --> 00:42:15,579
absolutely excellent

1187
00:42:15,938 --> 00:42:18,567
V movies. That the Zach talked about and

1188
00:42:18,567 --> 00:42:19,045
everything.

1189
00:42:19,603 --> 00:42:22,152
And then y'all release book 12, turns out

1190
00:42:22,152 --> 00:42:23,666
the guys we know when Jesus came back.

1191
00:42:23,826 --> 00:42:24,941
It was in 2004.

1192
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:26,229
And

1193
00:42:27,263 --> 00:42:29,411
and the cover was white, which by the

1194
00:42:29,411 --> 00:42:31,160
way was was a little prediction I made.

1195
00:42:31,399 --> 00:42:33,228
I I figured that black mat I needed

1196
00:42:33,228 --> 00:42:34,755
a bit of an upgrade when the lord

1197
00:42:34,755 --> 00:42:35,710
sets down on Earth.

1198
00:42:36,585 --> 00:42:38,256
And then they made y'all write pre or

1199
00:42:38,256 --> 00:42:39,847
y'all wanted to write pre either way, and

1200
00:42:39,847 --> 00:42:41,916
we got 3 pre, by the way, the

1201
00:42:41,916 --> 00:42:42,791
first 1.

1202
00:42:43,364 --> 00:42:45,358
I'll, bother. What was it called? The origin

1203
00:42:45,358 --> 00:42:47,054
story of nico carp.

1204
00:42:47,671 --> 00:42:49,744
And I remember there's a surprising amount of

1205
00:42:49,744 --> 00:42:52,558
darkness in how nico carp

1206
00:42:53,427 --> 00:42:53,927
was

1207
00:42:54,777 --> 00:42:57,001
conceived and ordered and, like, there was some

1208
00:42:57,001 --> 00:42:59,304
ready level cove in the back room type

1209
00:42:59,304 --> 00:43:01,709
stuff that I found wonderfully horrifying.

1210
00:43:02,894 --> 00:43:06,414
Seems some mythological references in there too. Amazing

1211
00:43:06,414 --> 00:43:08,574
amazing stuff. There were the rising the regime

1212
00:43:08,574 --> 00:43:10,742
and the rapture. Yep Okay. There we go.

1213
00:43:10,901 --> 00:43:12,250
I mean, my books... All my books are

1214
00:43:12,250 --> 00:43:13,440
on my shelf, but they're in the other

1215
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,186
room. Oh, real quick too, you you can't

1216
00:43:15,186 --> 00:43:16,851
tell faithful listeners because this is a podcast.

1217
00:43:17,010 --> 00:43:17,883
But here is a treasure.

1218
00:43:18,534 --> 00:43:20,550
I have a first sprint copy of

1219
00:43:21,088 --> 00:43:21,588
des

1220
00:43:22,045 --> 00:43:22,364
decoration.

1221
00:43:23,322 --> 00:43:25,977
Book 9, which is the 1 where Carp.

1222
00:43:26,689 --> 00:43:28,527
W and in the temple on a pig

1223
00:43:28,527 --> 00:43:30,285
pig w that is. And then slaughter the

1224
00:43:30,285 --> 00:43:31,505
pig in order to

1225
00:43:31,963 --> 00:43:34,281
fulfill a, a secondary meaning of the the

1226
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:35,181
Daniel prophecy

1227
00:43:35,813 --> 00:43:37,562
this 1 was wrong, 1 in a prize

1228
00:43:37,562 --> 00:43:40,584
and there's your autograph right there and autograph

1229
00:43:40,584 --> 00:43:43,469
of the late, doctor La as well. So

1230
00:43:44,258 --> 00:43:44,758
Another

1231
00:43:45,136 --> 00:43:48,406
fan boy treasure there. I wanted to ask

1232
00:43:48,406 --> 00:43:50,798
if you don't mind, Jerry, just some fun

1233
00:43:50,798 --> 00:43:53,431
questions about the series. Like, for example,

1234
00:43:54,242 --> 00:43:55,617
Do you have personally

1235
00:43:56,070 --> 00:43:59,330
a favorite of the 12 plus books? Is

1236
00:43:59,330 --> 00:44:01,398
there 1 that just as x especially special

1237
00:44:01,398 --> 00:44:03,885
to you? I'm not sure I do of

1238
00:44:03,885 --> 00:44:04,683
of the books.

1239
00:44:05,242 --> 00:44:08,115
I I have favorite scenes. Des accretion is

1240
00:44:08,115 --> 00:44:11,085
is especially close to my heart because that

1241
00:44:11,085 --> 00:44:12,925
sold out the first printing the day it

1242
00:44:12,925 --> 00:44:14,385
was released. Wow

1243
00:44:14,925 --> 00:44:16,525
became the best selling book in the world

1244
00:44:16,525 --> 00:44:16,925
that year,

1245
00:44:17,964 --> 00:44:18,844
fiction or on fiction.

1246
00:44:19,578 --> 00:44:21,492
Several of them debuted number 1 in the

1247
00:44:21,492 --> 00:44:23,247
new york Times, which was great. I have

1248
00:44:23,247 --> 00:44:25,161
to say 1 of my favorite scenes because,

1249
00:44:25,321 --> 00:44:26,597
I, you know, I write as a process

1250
00:44:26,597 --> 00:44:29,403
of Discovery. I'm a pants. So Mh. I

1251
00:44:29,403 --> 00:44:31,073
do what Stephen King says, you you try

1252
00:44:31,073 --> 00:44:33,402
to put interesting characters in difficult

1253
00:44:33,777 --> 00:44:35,526
situations and right to find out what happens.

1254
00:44:35,765 --> 00:44:37,929
As I'm seeing these things happen, people will

1255
00:44:37,929 --> 00:44:39,289
sometimes write to me and say, why did

1256
00:44:39,289 --> 00:44:41,230
you kill off in my favorite character? And

1257
00:44:42,010 --> 00:44:43,369
I didn't kill them off. I found them

1258
00:44:43,369 --> 00:44:44,010
dead. You know?

1259
00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:48,020
I'm sorry R. It was fate. Yeah. Exactly.

1260
00:44:48,179 --> 00:44:50,568
And I was sometimes as disappointed and shocked

1261
00:44:50,568 --> 00:44:52,400
as the readers were. You know? I... And

1262
00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:54,470
I remember 1 of them was when I

1263
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:55,527
I killed off

1264
00:44:55,919 --> 00:44:57,994
a character in the first book and doctor.

1265
00:44:58,234 --> 00:45:00,069
Has, let's resurrect him. I liked him And

1266
00:45:00,149 --> 00:45:01,687
I said, I think we have enough supernatural

1267
00:45:01,905 --> 00:45:04,001
stuff happening in there. But

1268
00:45:04,554 --> 00:45:06,708
I I think 1 of my favorite scenes

1269
00:45:06,708 --> 00:45:07,208
was

1270
00:45:07,744 --> 00:45:09,760
when... And I can't remember all the characters

1271
00:45:09,818 --> 00:45:10,297
involved now,

1272
00:45:11,014 --> 00:45:13,088
but a bus was stopped at a border

1273
00:45:13,088 --> 00:45:15,119
and they were searching for for,

1274
00:45:15,420 --> 00:45:16,780
I think See and Ben judah.

1275
00:45:17,340 --> 00:45:19,500
Ag, Nikola nikolai, book 3. Got love that

1276
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:21,579
bit. And they're looking under the seats and

1277
00:45:21,579 --> 00:45:24,630
everything and they they don't see. Him. Or

1278
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:25,450
I think

1279
00:45:25,907 --> 00:45:27,502
it turns out that the guy with the

1280
00:45:27,502 --> 00:45:29,836
flashlight becomes an angel. That's what people are

1281
00:45:30,213 --> 00:45:32,149
assumed. But it was a miraculous

1282
00:45:32,686 --> 00:45:32,846
intervention.

1283
00:45:33,658 --> 00:45:35,652
A lot of people really like, I think

1284
00:45:35,652 --> 00:45:37,965
book 4 is when they they face the

1285
00:45:37,965 --> 00:45:38,364
gui a team,

1286
00:45:39,081 --> 00:45:40,938
and they... And these people were singing

1287
00:45:41,474 --> 00:45:43,565
on their way to their executions. You know,

1288
00:45:44,204 --> 00:45:44,525
ironically,

1289
00:45:45,405 --> 00:45:47,244
Robert Frost, the poet who is the 1

1290
00:45:47,244 --> 00:45:49,965
who has been quoted as saying, no tears

1291
00:45:49,965 --> 00:45:51,644
in the writer, no tears in the reader.

1292
00:45:52,776 --> 00:45:55,485
Believe me, I I was sobbing writing several

1293
00:45:55,485 --> 00:45:57,237
of his scenes and and left behind.

1294
00:45:57,875 --> 00:46:00,583
If the writer is emotional, the reader is

1295
00:46:00,583 --> 00:46:02,034
10 times more. Mh.

1296
00:46:02,753 --> 00:46:04,831
And, you know, you you've both mentioned a

1297
00:46:04,831 --> 00:46:07,628
little bit about reading fiction or non fiction

1298
00:46:07,628 --> 00:46:10,105
or or my reading and multiple genres.

1299
00:46:10,759 --> 00:46:12,989
People have often said to me. I don't

1300
00:46:12,989 --> 00:46:14,663
read fiction. I only wanna read the truth?

1301
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:16,973
And I'm thinking that's kind of ironic. Do

1302
00:46:16,973 --> 00:46:17,929
you read the parable?

1303
00:46:18,327 --> 00:46:19,762
Parable are clearly fiction.

1304
00:46:20,413 --> 00:46:22,790
If a writer needs an example, you can't

1305
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:24,479
do better than Jesus you

1306
00:46:25,168 --> 00:46:27,308
And then this idea of writing multiple genres,

1307
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,880
that's really fallen out of favor today. It's

1308
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,960
hard for people to do that because publishers

1309
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,960
and agents say, you know what you're getting

1310
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,400
with a Stephen King book. You know what

1311
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,255
you're getting with a Jk rowling book. You

1312
00:46:37,255 --> 00:46:39,494
know what you're getting a john G book.

1313
00:46:39,735 --> 00:46:41,175
So pick your area,

1314
00:46:41,575 --> 00:46:42,695
stick with it that's your brand.

1315
00:46:43,414 --> 00:46:45,414
I wanted my brand and fortunately, I'm old

1316
00:46:45,414 --> 00:46:47,818
enough that they weren't so hung up on

1317
00:46:47,818 --> 00:46:48,693
that back in the day.

1318
00:46:49,488 --> 00:46:51,873
I want my brand to be. A Jerry

1319
00:46:52,032 --> 00:46:53,782
Jenkins book is gonna be a good read.

1320
00:46:54,592 --> 00:46:57,692
Whether it's fiction, non fiction, children, adults, whatever,

1321
00:46:58,089 --> 00:46:59,838
and it's worked for me. You know, I

1322
00:46:59,838 --> 00:47:02,222
have 2000 online writing students, and I have

1323
00:47:02,222 --> 00:47:04,622
to caution them it's an uphill battle if

1324
00:47:04,622 --> 00:47:06,474
you try to do what I do today

1325
00:47:06,532 --> 00:47:07,032
because

1326
00:47:07,407 --> 00:47:09,554
as I say agents and publishers are gonna

1327
00:47:09,554 --> 00:47:09,713
say,

1328
00:47:10,682 --> 00:47:11,795
We don't know where to put you. We

1329
00:47:11,795 --> 00:47:13,703
need to brand you. Zach. Do you have

1330
00:47:13,703 --> 00:47:16,405
a particular favorite left behind scene book.

1331
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,552
I was just gonna bounce off what you

1332
00:47:18,552 --> 00:47:21,188
said, Jerry about scene where Cy Ben judah

1333
00:47:21,188 --> 00:47:24,444
is kind of disappears miraculously on that bus.

1334
00:47:25,636 --> 00:47:27,304
Believe it or not, I have a very

1335
00:47:27,304 --> 00:47:29,051
similar story from when I was a missionary.

1336
00:47:29,782 --> 00:47:32,490
East Asia. And now I I don't have

1337
00:47:32,490 --> 00:47:34,561
the omniscient point of you to to tell

1338
00:47:34,561 --> 00:47:36,870
you exactly what happened, but here's what I

1339
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:37,746
know that happened.

1340
00:47:38,398 --> 00:47:40,145
And, I'm mean... I'm being very vague here

1341
00:47:40,145 --> 00:47:42,210
for some security reasons, but I had to

1342
00:47:42,210 --> 00:47:43,718
go about an hour outside of this town.

1343
00:47:43,877 --> 00:47:45,806
We in to go to this 1 university.

1344
00:47:46,753 --> 00:47:48,669
And I walked around the campus with the

1345
00:47:48,669 --> 00:47:49,169
student

1346
00:47:49,627 --> 00:47:50,824
in my very broken

1347
00:47:51,463 --> 00:47:54,017
language attempts tried to explain the gospel in

1348
00:47:54,017 --> 00:47:54,836
his language

1349
00:47:55,309 --> 00:47:57,059
I had a little notebook that had some,

1350
00:47:57,139 --> 00:47:58,810
you know, pictures on it. Basically, the...

1351
00:47:59,685 --> 00:48:02,311
The the typical, like, bridge analogy for spiritual

1352
00:48:02,311 --> 00:48:04,402
laws type gospel presentation

1353
00:48:04,714 --> 00:48:05,751
I try to say as much of it

1354
00:48:05,751 --> 00:48:06,570
in his language

1355
00:48:06,949 --> 00:48:07,746
rather than English.

1356
00:48:08,624 --> 00:48:10,300
And I have a I'm a loud Text.

1357
00:48:10,539 --> 00:48:11,976
I've have kind of a big booming voice.

1358
00:48:12,869 --> 00:48:14,942
And because we'd had walked in circles around

1359
00:48:14,942 --> 00:48:17,096
this campus, I got kinda turned around where

1360
00:48:17,096 --> 00:48:17,494
we were.

1361
00:48:18,691 --> 00:48:20,126
And I stood up after we were done,

1362
00:48:20,206 --> 00:48:21,801
and I realized, I was right next to

1363
00:48:21,801 --> 00:48:22,612
the guard shaq.

1364
00:48:23,405 --> 00:48:26,101
In this university sometimes would not let foreigners

1365
00:48:26,101 --> 00:48:28,480
in, and they're they were always watching us

1366
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:29,908
like pretty suspicious of us.

1367
00:48:30,715 --> 00:48:32,380
And as soon as I walk past them,

1368
00:48:32,618 --> 00:48:34,838
all the guards were watching me. I'm like,

1369
00:48:34,996 --> 00:48:37,137
oh, no. They heard everything I said, because

1370
00:48:37,216 --> 00:48:38,979
I was right next to that building, and

1371
00:48:39,059 --> 00:48:40,570
I was speaking in their language.

1372
00:48:41,445 --> 00:48:43,195
I waited very anxiously to get on the

1373
00:48:43,195 --> 00:48:44,547
bus to go back into our town.

1374
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:46,880
It took, I don't know, 20 minutes or

1375
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:47,780
so. And then

1376
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:49,519
a couple stops later,

1377
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:52,559
the military police were stopping all vehicles.

1378
00:48:53,375 --> 00:48:55,534
And a guard got on with a machine

1379
00:48:55,534 --> 00:48:55,775
gun.

1380
00:48:56,414 --> 00:48:58,815
And he's walking down the aisle looking at

1381
00:48:58,815 --> 00:49:01,387
every every person just Eye to eye, eye

1382
00:49:01,387 --> 00:49:03,382
to eye, eye to eye. Well, I'm sitting

1383
00:49:03,382 --> 00:49:05,616
in the very back and there's, like, 5

1384
00:49:05,616 --> 00:49:07,291
seats in the back. I'm in the middle

1385
00:49:07,291 --> 00:49:07,791
seat

1386
00:49:08,262 --> 00:49:10,166
I'm a foot taller than everyone.

1387
00:49:11,118 --> 00:49:13,657
And, of course, I'm foreign. So ever... I

1388
00:49:13,657 --> 00:49:14,689
stand out completely.

1389
00:49:15,497 --> 00:49:17,320
And he walks down to the very end,

1390
00:49:17,557 --> 00:49:19,301
he looks to the person to the left

1391
00:49:19,301 --> 00:49:21,045
of me, the next to me, and then

1392
00:49:21,045 --> 00:49:22,313
the 2 people on the other side.

1393
00:49:23,045 --> 00:49:25,045
And it was like his eyes just went

1394
00:49:25,045 --> 00:49:25,844
right past me.

1395
00:49:26,565 --> 00:49:27,844
In this part of town, there were no

1396
00:49:27,844 --> 00:49:30,344
foreigners. So everyone that ever

1397
00:49:30,724 --> 00:49:32,739
saw me would stare at me. And then

1398
00:49:32,739 --> 00:49:34,657
he gets off the bus and then nothing

1399
00:49:34,657 --> 00:49:35,956
happens, and

1400
00:49:36,335 --> 00:49:37,613
I get all the way home, and I

1401
00:49:37,613 --> 00:49:37,853
think,

1402
00:49:38,732 --> 00:49:40,570
okay. Maybe they were looking for someone else.

1403
00:49:41,940 --> 00:49:43,396
But that guy did not

1404
00:49:43,773 --> 00:49:46,243
acknowledge me or even notice me and that

1405
00:49:46,243 --> 00:49:47,039
never happens.

1406
00:49:47,597 --> 00:49:48,097
So

1407
00:49:49,048 --> 00:49:51,362
Did I just become invisible? I kind of

1408
00:49:51,362 --> 00:49:52,320
like in that story?

1409
00:49:52,959 --> 00:49:54,556
And it was so weird to have that

1410
00:49:54,556 --> 00:49:57,051
happen while I was reading these books in

1411
00:49:57,603 --> 00:49:59,518
What it really showed me was that even

1412
00:49:59,518 --> 00:50:01,294
though those were fictional stories

1413
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:04,064
that we believe in a god who can

1414
00:50:04,064 --> 00:50:06,377
do the miraculous in the supernatural and he

1415
00:50:06,377 --> 00:50:07,150
can protect

1416
00:50:07,744 --> 00:50:10,150
his saints, his missionaries and his people

1417
00:50:10,681 --> 00:50:13,562
from persecution even in crazy circumstances,

1418
00:50:13,935 --> 00:50:14,594
And so

1419
00:50:15,463 --> 00:50:16,659
I wanted to share that with you just

1420
00:50:16,659 --> 00:50:18,653
to encourage you how much that that story

1421
00:50:18,653 --> 00:50:20,328
meant to me at the time. And I

1422
00:50:20,328 --> 00:50:22,003
wanted to ask you, like, you know, as

1423
00:50:22,003 --> 00:50:24,396
you said, there's 10 to 15000 new readers,

1424
00:50:25,049 --> 00:50:26,248
every month of the series.

1425
00:50:27,127 --> 00:50:29,125
What do you think this these books have

1426
00:50:29,125 --> 00:50:29,784
to say

1427
00:50:30,403 --> 00:50:32,421
do Christians today that might be facing

1428
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,885
persecution, whether it's here in our country or

1429
00:50:34,885 --> 00:50:36,156
in or in other countries.

1430
00:50:36,951 --> 00:50:38,063
You know, that's the thing. A lot of

1431
00:50:38,063 --> 00:50:40,366
people look at America the stories like that

1432
00:50:40,366 --> 00:50:42,748
and and think they're relegated to biblical times.

1433
00:50:43,557 --> 00:50:45,780
And you know, the very first book I

1434
00:50:45,780 --> 00:50:46,336
ever wrote.

1435
00:50:46,971 --> 00:50:48,320
I was 23

1436
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,306
and the subject of the book was 25.

1437
00:50:51,194 --> 00:50:53,342
It was called Sammy Tip God's love in

1438
00:50:53,342 --> 00:50:53,501
action.

1439
00:50:54,376 --> 00:50:57,001
Now we're, you know, 50 years later, I

1440
00:50:57,001 --> 00:50:59,069
still serve on his board. He's still my

1441
00:50:59,069 --> 00:50:59,626
spiritual hero.

1442
00:51:00,435 --> 00:51:02,181
But he preach it all over the world.

1443
00:51:03,291 --> 00:51:05,116
Mostly now does it from his home in

1444
00:51:05,195 --> 00:51:07,496
San Antonio just through, you know, the Internet,

1445
00:51:07,655 --> 00:51:08,155
but

1446
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:11,487
He was going into countries behind Aaron and

1447
00:51:11,487 --> 00:51:11,725
curtain.

1448
00:51:12,521 --> 00:51:14,748
He got kicked out of 1 1 time.

1449
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:16,918
The next time he tried to go in

1450
00:51:16,918 --> 00:51:18,276
there. He took 2 friends,

1451
00:51:18,915 --> 00:51:20,273
and he said they don't... He said if

1452
00:51:20,353 --> 00:51:21,631
God wants us in there, we'll get in.

1453
00:51:21,871 --> 00:51:23,322
That's all there is to it. If he

1454
00:51:23,322 --> 00:51:25,231
doesn't, then that's that's up to him.

1455
00:51:25,947 --> 00:51:27,379
But he said we're gonna at least be

1456
00:51:27,379 --> 00:51:30,418
smart and we're... We separate so they... He

1457
00:51:30,418 --> 00:51:32,334
he sent 1 guy in in line, you

1458
00:51:32,334 --> 00:51:34,729
know, maybe 10 people ahead of him, and

1459
00:51:34,729 --> 00:51:37,762
then 1 guy behind him, about 10:10

1460
00:51:37,762 --> 00:51:38,401
people behind.

1461
00:51:39,453 --> 00:51:40,252
And the first 1,

1462
00:51:40,970 --> 00:51:41,848
gets turned away.

1463
00:51:43,206 --> 00:51:45,621
And as he's coming back through the line

1464
00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:48,315
to be, you know, deported basically.

1465
00:51:49,127 --> 00:51:50,320
He whispered to Sammy.

1466
00:51:51,195 --> 00:51:53,502
They said you were here last time with

1467
00:51:53,581 --> 00:51:55,092
Sammy Tip, so you're out.

1468
00:51:55,902 --> 00:51:57,729
So Sammy goes through the line. You know,

1469
00:51:58,285 --> 00:52:00,906
it's up there puts his passport down. It's

1470
00:52:00,906 --> 00:52:02,256
picture. Sammy deal with his name.

1471
00:52:04,336 --> 00:52:06,480
Stamp stamp goes through. Wow.

1472
00:52:06,956 --> 00:52:09,498
And the next... When when they're friend, you

1473
00:52:09,498 --> 00:52:11,641
know, the the the last guy goes through,

1474
00:52:12,452 --> 00:52:14,045
he gets kicked out because he was with

1475
00:52:14,045 --> 00:52:14,762
sammy tip last.

1476
00:52:16,115 --> 00:52:18,265
Wow. What is that the sammy tip you're

1477
00:52:18,265 --> 00:52:18,823
looking for?

1478
00:52:19,938 --> 00:52:21,706
What is that? You know, maybe they spill

1479
00:52:21,706 --> 00:52:23,860
tip backwards. It's it's spelled to sand back

1480
00:52:23,860 --> 00:52:26,733
and forward. So that's amazing. But it's still

1481
00:52:26,733 --> 00:52:29,135
evidence of God. That's incredible. And, you know,

1482
00:52:29,293 --> 00:52:31,596
these these books now are are sort of

1483
00:52:31,596 --> 00:52:32,311
period pieces.

1484
00:52:32,867 --> 00:52:34,614
Several years ago I had 1 of my

1485
00:52:34,614 --> 00:52:35,670
sons go through

1486
00:52:36,138 --> 00:52:38,921
and and update the technology. I had, you

1487
00:52:38,921 --> 00:52:39,080
know,

1488
00:52:40,193 --> 00:52:41,409
I had tape

1489
00:52:41,784 --> 00:52:42,500
instead of, you know,

1490
00:52:43,693 --> 00:52:44,011
like.

1491
00:52:44,661 --> 00:52:46,486
And and so they they look funny. Well,

1492
00:52:46,565 --> 00:52:48,945
now, even the stuff he changed is ancient.

1493
00:52:50,294 --> 00:52:51,722
We thought well, you can't keep up with

1494
00:52:51,722 --> 00:52:53,727
us. So just you know, these were written

1495
00:52:53,727 --> 00:52:55,244
back then and this was supposed to what

1496
00:52:55,244 --> 00:52:57,400
what the future look like, like going to

1497
00:52:57,479 --> 00:52:59,336
Ep mca center and seeing the the

1498
00:52:59,795 --> 00:53:01,231
city of the future, which they built in

1499
00:53:01,231 --> 00:53:01,950
19 60.

1500
00:53:02,523 --> 00:53:04,512
And it's not too close to what we're

1501
00:53:04,512 --> 00:53:06,262
we have now, but it's a it's an

1502
00:53:06,262 --> 00:53:08,728
interesting period piece, but the truth is still

1503
00:53:08,728 --> 00:53:08,887
there.

1504
00:53:09,619 --> 00:53:12,016
People, you know, dying for their faith.

1505
00:53:12,974 --> 00:53:15,931
And and and looking forward to to what's

1506
00:53:15,931 --> 00:53:17,942
to come. I think they still hold up.

1507
00:53:18,181 --> 00:53:19,458
I mean, I still hear from people who

1508
00:53:19,458 --> 00:53:21,474
say they've they've come back to their faith

1509
00:53:21,932 --> 00:53:23,848
where they've come to faith through reading and

1510
00:53:23,848 --> 00:53:27,133
it's it's really special. Oh, absolutely. And I

1511
00:53:27,133 --> 00:53:29,841
know for me personally, they definitely still hold

1512
00:53:29,841 --> 00:53:32,549
up, and, Jerry, 1 of the plot arcs

1513
00:53:32,709 --> 00:53:34,381
that is stuck with me to this day,

1514
00:53:35,274 --> 00:53:37,192
really starts with Ra at the end of

1515
00:53:37,192 --> 00:53:40,307
a book 4, soul harvest, and then concludes,

1516
00:53:40,627 --> 00:53:42,485
I would say in a book 7

1517
00:53:42,798 --> 00:53:45,098
the ind dwelling, and it is his turn

1518
00:53:45,098 --> 00:53:47,556
toward the dark side, and it took 4

1519
00:53:47,556 --> 00:53:49,721
books to do it, where Ray

1520
00:53:50,094 --> 00:53:51,244
decides logically,

1521
00:53:51,701 --> 00:53:52,817
but also based on,

1522
00:53:53,853 --> 00:53:57,121
severe, post traumatic stress, it ain't easy guys

1523
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:58,715
living through the tribulation.

1524
00:53:59,689 --> 00:54:02,724
Ray decides you know, if prophecy says that

1525
00:54:03,603 --> 00:54:06,375
antichrist, this world dictator, his

1526
00:54:07,049 --> 00:54:09,193
nico nikolai or path and your universe.

1527
00:54:10,146 --> 00:54:12,130
If a prophecy says that he's going to

1528
00:54:12,130 --> 00:54:14,750
somehow die or fake die or something we're

1529
00:54:14,750 --> 00:54:17,470
not sure then Ray says to himself why

1530
00:54:17,470 --> 00:54:19,381
can't I be the 1 to make that

1531
00:54:19,381 --> 00:54:22,327
happen? And so he rationalize. His turned toward

1532
00:54:22,327 --> 00:54:23,974
the dark side this whole time. He is

1533
00:54:24,094 --> 00:54:25,925
turning more towards vengeance,

1534
00:54:26,722 --> 00:54:28,872
rather than letting things play out,

1535
00:54:29,509 --> 00:54:32,398
rather than understanding that Vengeance is the Lords

1536
00:54:33,269 --> 00:54:35,589
and that Raf doesn't need to be letting

1537
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:37,989
his heart go in that direction. And so

1538
00:54:37,989 --> 00:54:39,909
not to spoil things, but you kinda get

1539
00:54:39,909 --> 00:54:40,389
this whole

1540
00:54:41,678 --> 00:54:43,664
huge cliff angle at the end of book

1541
00:54:43,664 --> 00:54:46,603
6, which of course drove readers nuts, which

1542
00:54:46,603 --> 00:54:47,557
was fantastic.

1543
00:54:48,367 --> 00:54:49,876
And then we took our sweet time in

1544
00:54:49,876 --> 00:54:52,259
the book 7 to get to the resolution

1545
00:54:52,259 --> 00:54:54,404
to the mystery there, But really, I think

1546
00:54:54,404 --> 00:54:56,231
what is what is aged even better.

1547
00:54:56,803 --> 00:54:59,907
In that plot is Rae repentance. I will

1548
00:54:59,907 --> 00:55:02,294
go ahead and spoil that. He decides that,

1549
00:55:02,453 --> 00:55:03,647
I mean, he's a man on the run.

1550
00:55:04,378 --> 00:55:06,151
Then suddenly, all those vengeful

1551
00:55:07,003 --> 00:55:08,513
rationalization and is turned toward the dark side

1552
00:55:08,513 --> 00:55:11,376
and his very spiritual arguments for himself do

1553
00:55:11,376 --> 00:55:14,135
not work, and he is exposed as a

1554
00:55:14,253 --> 00:55:15,284
sinner and must.

1555
00:55:16,235 --> 00:55:16,631
Experience,

1556
00:55:17,899 --> 00:55:18,399
restoration

1557
00:55:19,009 --> 00:55:22,196
from elders in a local church it is

1558
00:55:22,196 --> 00:55:25,218
such a wonderful picture, not just evan or

1559
00:55:25,218 --> 00:55:28,081
faithfulness under persecution, but of the role of

1560
00:55:28,081 --> 00:55:30,807
the local church in d decipher the way

1561
00:55:30,864 --> 00:55:31,182
believer.

1562
00:55:31,753 --> 00:55:33,423
And that picture. It's not like you were

1563
00:55:33,423 --> 00:55:36,525
going did and teaching about church governance or

1564
00:55:36,525 --> 00:55:38,274
elders or dea or what they're supposed to

1565
00:55:38,274 --> 00:55:40,103
do, but that picture is stuck in my

1566
00:55:40,103 --> 00:55:41,216
head to this day.

1567
00:55:42,030 --> 00:55:43,730
Along with the many other quan

1568
00:55:44,269 --> 00:55:46,449
that believers in the left behind verse

1569
00:55:46,989 --> 00:55:48,989
had to face. So personally, I just want

1570
00:55:48,989 --> 00:55:50,842
to thank you for that, and is... Again,

1571
00:55:51,001 --> 00:55:53,387
it's just another a testament to the power

1572
00:55:53,387 --> 00:55:56,353
of biblical truth applied to fantastical

1573
00:55:56,728 --> 00:55:56,887
imagination.

1574
00:55:57,697 --> 00:56:00,079
Yeah. And, you know, people sort of rebel

1575
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:02,461
against that too in the chosen, my my

1576
00:56:02,461 --> 00:56:03,573
son's Tv series,

1577
00:56:04,288 --> 00:56:05,105
Mary Mag

1578
00:56:05,893 --> 00:56:08,445
obviously, this is invented fiction. It's plausible, but,

1579
00:56:09,083 --> 00:56:11,237
has a backs experience. And a lot of

1580
00:56:11,237 --> 00:56:13,071
people want... That would never happen. She got

1581
00:56:13,071 --> 00:56:14,268
saved and and Jesus,

1582
00:56:14,826 --> 00:56:15,065
you know,

1583
00:56:15,798 --> 00:56:17,555
deliver her from demons and so she should

1584
00:56:17,555 --> 00:56:19,630
live a perfect light from now on. That's

1585
00:56:19,630 --> 00:56:20,428
not how life is.

1586
00:56:21,226 --> 00:56:23,701
Most people look at that and say, that's

1587
00:56:23,701 --> 00:56:23,940
me.

1588
00:56:24,671 --> 00:56:26,734
I fail. I keep thinking I've I've I

1589
00:56:26,734 --> 00:56:29,511
finally got this thing now, but I'm still

1590
00:56:29,511 --> 00:56:31,987
fighting the old man, the old nature. And

1591
00:56:32,385 --> 00:56:34,614
I think it's it's the bad news like

1592
00:56:34,614 --> 00:56:36,285
that that makes the good news look even

1593
00:56:36,285 --> 00:56:38,911
better. Well, we're pulling for Dallas if there's

1594
00:56:38,911 --> 00:56:41,003
ever any chance to do

1595
00:56:41,313 --> 00:56:43,384
a left behind streaming drama,

1596
00:56:44,260 --> 00:56:46,331
similar to the chosen we are pulling for

1597
00:56:46,331 --> 00:56:48,003
that, for sure. As soon as they set

1598
00:56:48,003 --> 00:56:50,088
up a fundraiser or whatever. I'm am all

1599
00:56:50,088 --> 00:56:51,921
over that, just as much as I'm all

1600
00:56:51,921 --> 00:56:54,551
over the chosen right now. As you mentioned,

1601
00:56:54,791 --> 00:56:56,862
Jerry, may need a few updates, which I

1602
00:56:56,862 --> 00:56:58,653
think it'd be kind of fun to brainstorm

1603
00:56:58,871 --> 00:57:01,106
before we move into chapter 3. As I'm

1604
00:57:01,106 --> 00:57:03,580
looking at left behind now, I'm thinking well

1605
00:57:03,580 --> 00:57:06,469
clearly social media, at least in this time

1606
00:57:06,469 --> 00:57:09,921
period has kinda replaced the message board, unfortunately.

1607
00:57:10,538 --> 00:57:11,597
I'd say the politics

1608
00:57:11,974 --> 00:57:14,465
general in our country are way worse. But

1609
00:57:14,465 --> 00:57:17,265
almost certainly, doctor Si Ben ventura would have

1610
00:57:17,265 --> 00:57:18,704
an underground podcast.

1611
00:57:19,105 --> 00:57:20,724
And he'd be hosting on

1612
00:57:21,105 --> 00:57:23,434
the black market servers so that he was

1613
00:57:23,434 --> 00:57:24,174
as un

1614
00:57:24,631 --> 00:57:25,269
as possible.

1615
00:57:25,987 --> 00:57:28,140
Although next to Alex Jones maybe, you know,

1616
00:57:28,300 --> 00:57:31,251
that almost 2 much more biblical grounded.

1617
00:57:32,063 --> 00:57:33,655
Yes. I was gonna say you're gonna be

1618
00:57:33,655 --> 00:57:36,305
happy to hear that there is a gigantic

1619
00:57:37,079 --> 00:57:38,034
streaming service,

1620
00:57:38,830 --> 00:57:39,626
very interested.

1621
00:57:40,357 --> 00:57:43,213
And the left behind series with Dallas directing.

1622
00:57:43,452 --> 00:57:46,070
Oh, fantastic. Let's do it. I'm telling you.

1623
00:57:46,388 --> 00:57:48,134
It's... It'd be the dream of a lifetime

1624
00:57:48,134 --> 00:57:49,978
for me. Let us do it. And with

1625
00:57:49,978 --> 00:57:52,047
all due respect to the previous movie adaptations,

1626
00:57:52,206 --> 00:57:55,151
let's actually see those video clips with a

1627
00:57:55,151 --> 00:57:57,458
slow motion replay when people vanish out of

1628
00:57:57,458 --> 00:57:59,710
their clothes. We all wanna see the cars

1629
00:57:59,710 --> 00:58:02,590
korean out of control, of course, but there's

1630
00:58:02,590 --> 00:58:04,590
all kinds of special effects possibilities there, and

1631
00:58:04,670 --> 00:58:06,190
I I'd like to keep going at least

1632
00:58:06,190 --> 00:58:07,883
until we get to the demon lo. Which

1633
00:58:07,883 --> 00:58:09,875
by the way is probably 1 of my

1634
00:58:09,875 --> 00:58:12,503
top 3 plagues during the tribulation. If you

1635
00:58:12,503 --> 00:58:14,574
can pick a favorite, that 1 I think

1636
00:58:14,574 --> 00:58:16,940
other than the asteroids, you know, deep impact

1637
00:58:17,059 --> 00:58:18,980
style. It'll... Those those are the coolest.

1638
00:58:19,619 --> 00:58:21,539
You have a favorite play. You you really

1639
00:58:21,539 --> 00:58:22,739
need to get out more. You know that?

1640
00:58:23,619 --> 00:58:25,551
Reprogram you You know, I go back to

1641
00:58:25,551 --> 00:58:27,385
being pre tribulation, and then it... I have

1642
00:58:27,385 --> 00:58:29,778
the luxury of having a favorite play. Pretty?

1643
00:58:30,177 --> 00:58:30,496
Those

1644
00:58:31,134 --> 00:58:33,048
poor tribulation saints, You know, they they got

1645
00:58:33,048 --> 00:58:34,819
a reckon with you know, the sun turning

1646
00:58:34,819 --> 00:58:36,977
up the heat, and then going dark with

1647
00:58:36,977 --> 00:58:38,815
the next plague, and then an Angel blows

1648
00:58:38,815 --> 00:58:40,972
at Trumpet, and then suddenly the earth splits

1649
00:58:40,972 --> 00:58:43,311
in half, that's not an actual plague. But

1650
00:58:43,864 --> 00:58:45,371
Yeah... There was a while there, Jerry. I

1651
00:58:45,371 --> 00:58:46,959
was just looking forward to the next plague.

1652
00:58:47,197 --> 00:58:49,023
I I guess I'm just a... A there's

1653
00:58:49,023 --> 00:58:50,927
a Doom day movie fan in my head

1654
00:58:50,927 --> 00:58:52,530
and because I was home school they didn't

1655
00:58:52,530 --> 00:58:54,276
see a lot of Doom day movies. So

1656
00:58:54,276 --> 00:58:55,625
you could get them in the left.

1657
00:58:56,181 --> 00:58:57,927
You could get them in the audio drama.

1658
00:58:59,373 --> 00:59:00,809
There's also be by the way, a lot

1659
00:59:00,809 --> 00:59:02,882
more sexual revolution in the global community.

1660
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,754
It is astonishing me to see how much

1661
00:59:05,754 --> 00:59:08,625
further society has slid in that particular direction.

1662
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:11,915
Yeah, it would seem to shock even some

1663
00:59:11,915 --> 00:59:13,513
global community storm troopers.

1664
00:59:14,392 --> 00:59:16,562
It's a rather incredible to see. A lot

1665
00:59:16,562 --> 00:59:18,869
of people say that the the books themselves

1666
00:59:18,869 --> 00:59:21,653
were prophetic because so much, you know, is

1667
00:59:21,653 --> 00:59:23,139
has come true that we're

1668
00:59:23,497 --> 00:59:23,815
predicting,

1669
00:59:24,372 --> 00:59:26,440
but we never saw this gender thing coming.

1670
00:59:26,679 --> 00:59:28,907
I mean no. No 1 would have to

1671
00:59:28,907 --> 00:59:29,407
be

1672
00:59:30,354 --> 00:59:32,752
done differently today. Yep. Yeah. I think it

1673
00:59:32,752 --> 00:59:34,270
would take over the series though if you

1674
00:59:34,270 --> 00:59:36,289
try it now. And so would the mind

1675
00:59:36,348 --> 00:59:38,026
by the way, the nor was gonna say

1676
00:59:38,026 --> 00:59:39,405
that the the 6

1677
00:59:39,798 --> 00:59:42,025
mind chip. Yeah. Not just the Neural link

1678
00:59:42,025 --> 00:59:45,046
type stuff, but the the control of the

1679
00:59:45,046 --> 00:59:45,864
financial system

1680
00:59:46,875 --> 00:59:49,680
alongside Big tech using all kinds of levers

1681
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,314
to deep bank people, you know, all kinds

1682
00:59:52,314 --> 00:59:54,868
of ways that you can be canceled and

1683
00:59:54,868 --> 00:59:57,276
and not be able to use money. And

1684
00:59:57,276 --> 00:59:59,268
so I I think we definitely see some

1685
00:59:59,268 --> 01:00:01,817
type of, you know, when when Chloe starts

1686
01:00:01,817 --> 01:00:03,512
the the kind of the underground

1687
01:00:04,381 --> 01:00:07,008
cooperative thing. We'd probably see some cryptocurrency thing

1688
01:00:07,008 --> 01:00:07,406
happening,

1689
01:00:07,883 --> 01:00:09,099
you know, some alternative

1690
01:00:09,873 --> 01:00:12,898
payment system because there's already types of that

1691
01:00:12,898 --> 01:00:13,398
now

1692
01:00:13,710 --> 01:00:15,889
but they haven't really taken hold. And so

1693
01:00:16,030 --> 01:00:17,630
you look at those events today you're like,

1694
01:00:17,789 --> 01:00:19,469
boy, you're we're really being set up for

1695
01:00:19,469 --> 01:00:21,230
this to happen. I mean, it just... It

1696
01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:22,130
seems so

1697
01:00:22,764 --> 01:00:24,764
It seems so much more plausible now than

1698
01:00:24,764 --> 01:00:26,764
eve and eva was even plausible back then,

1699
01:00:26,925 --> 01:00:29,565
but we we definitely have the technology now

1700
01:00:29,565 --> 01:00:31,085
for that unfortunately to happen.

1701
01:00:31,818 --> 01:00:33,253
Now a lot of people thought that some

1702
01:00:33,253 --> 01:00:35,565
of the prophecies and remember when we were

1703
01:00:35,565 --> 01:00:37,320
writing about them, I was thinking,

1704
01:00:37,878 --> 01:00:39,893
we have to have the the 2 witnesses

1705
01:00:40,603 --> 01:00:44,024
be killed and then resurrected, and then and

1706
01:00:44,024 --> 01:00:46,490
and this the prophecy says the entire world

1707
01:00:46,490 --> 01:00:46,967
sees this.

1708
01:00:47,619 --> 01:00:49,373
And so we are thought that was symbolic.

1709
01:00:50,171 --> 01:00:51,766
And then right around time we're writing it,

1710
01:00:52,404 --> 01:00:55,833
satellite Tv and and you know, the Internet

1711
01:00:55,833 --> 01:00:57,521
and all this stuff is coming in. We

1712
01:00:57,521 --> 01:01:00,637
realized that's what would happen. Nowadays, something happens

1713
01:01:00,771 --> 01:01:02,752
anywhere. Everybody sees it at the same time.

1714
01:01:03,069 --> 01:01:04,337
It'd be on Youtube. Yep.

1715
01:01:05,068 --> 01:01:08,016
Jerry Jenkins had 1 path toward becoming a

1716
01:01:08,016 --> 01:01:11,203
hugely successful author, maybe some of you all

1717
01:01:11,203 --> 01:01:14,244
have different paths. Which almost certainly include attending

1718
01:01:14,244 --> 01:01:17,108
a writer's conference like the Realm Conference that

1719
01:01:17,108 --> 01:01:19,438
is starting up as we release this episode

1720
01:01:19,749 --> 01:01:22,226
Just a few days from now coming July

1721
01:01:22,226 --> 01:01:25,362
eighteenth through twentieth in person and live streaming

1722
01:01:25,501 --> 01:01:27,990
from the She West Chilean hotel in Saint.

1723
01:01:28,150 --> 01:01:29,983
Louis where we've been off on over the

1724
01:01:29,983 --> 01:01:32,295
last several years. Lori haven also has a

1725
01:01:32,295 --> 01:01:33,969
booth there. So if you're in the area,

1726
01:01:34,128 --> 01:01:35,005
stop by and see us,

1727
01:01:35,816 --> 01:01:38,119
especially at Saturday night at 07:30PM

1728
01:01:38,119 --> 01:01:40,524
when we have the open bookstore event at.

1729
01:01:41,136 --> 01:01:42,963
But throughout the conference either way, we'll be

1730
01:01:42,963 --> 01:01:44,233
talking to you at the booth,

1731
01:01:44,884 --> 01:01:47,747
and we have some upgrades because the booth

1732
01:01:47,747 --> 01:01:50,531
just got ga fight. We're going to assign

1733
01:01:50,531 --> 01:01:51,668
you if you like

1734
01:01:52,139 --> 01:01:55,835
challenging quests at 3 difficulty levels to earn

1735
01:01:55,974 --> 01:01:59,091
fantastical x xp as well as prizes. You

1736
01:01:59,091 --> 01:02:01,184
can start with the debut quest which are

1737
01:02:01,184 --> 01:02:01,503
simpler.

1738
01:02:02,222 --> 01:02:04,140
You can move up to the fetch quests

1739
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:06,776
like visiting other booths and collecting hidden tokens

1740
01:02:06,776 --> 01:02:09,030
and taking photos and helping us to share

1741
01:02:09,030 --> 01:02:11,429
news about the podcast in Laura Haven, that's

1742
01:02:11,429 --> 01:02:14,089
for more experienced players, or if you're really

1743
01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:16,284
ambitious, that you can participate in a boss

1744
01:02:16,403 --> 01:02:18,255
battle. And at the end we're kinda have

1745
01:02:18,311 --> 01:02:20,855
some amazing prizes like book satchel as well

1746
01:02:20,855 --> 01:02:22,047
as hand crafted,

1747
01:02:22,921 --> 01:02:24,829
fantastical mugs. I can't wait to show these

1748
01:02:24,829 --> 01:02:26,753
often as see the faces of the winners,

1749
01:02:27,708 --> 01:02:30,732
stop by our Lord haven Guild booth there

1750
01:02:30,732 --> 01:02:33,040
at the Realm conference in Saint. Louis and

1751
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:34,791
to learn more about what we have planned.

1752
01:02:35,204 --> 01:02:36,639
You can go to our show notes for

1753
01:02:36,639 --> 01:02:38,016
episode 221

1754
01:02:38,074 --> 01:02:40,727
or visit lori haven dot com slash podcast.

1755
01:02:41,663 --> 01:02:43,496
And now for those you faithful listeners who

1756
01:02:43,496 --> 01:02:44,110
are posed

1757
01:02:44,785 --> 01:02:47,486
tribulation or post something rather. This chapter is

1758
01:02:47,486 --> 01:02:49,392
for you post left behind series.

1759
01:02:50,107 --> 01:02:52,625
We've seen the record run of this

1760
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:55,925
evangelical publishing phenomenon. And now we move as

1761
01:02:55,925 --> 01:02:58,391
we draw to close to this blockbuster legacy

1762
01:02:58,391 --> 01:02:59,028
of the series.

1763
01:02:59,839 --> 01:03:01,916
I would say just first real quick, that

1764
01:03:01,916 --> 01:03:02,816
this was

1765
01:03:03,274 --> 01:03:04,712
and to some extent remains.

1766
01:03:05,431 --> 01:03:06,570
The evangelical

1767
01:03:07,123 --> 01:03:09,994
cinematic universe or or publishing universe. So before

1768
01:03:09,994 --> 01:03:11,907
there was an Mcu in this big franchise

1769
01:03:11,907 --> 01:03:15,017
like, this was the Christian equivalent or the

1770
01:03:15,017 --> 01:03:15,517
evangelical

1771
01:03:15,909 --> 01:03:19,259
Christian equivalent because Christian fiction had a big

1772
01:03:19,259 --> 01:03:19,578
moment,

1773
01:03:20,535 --> 01:03:23,166
back in the the mid nineties through the

1774
01:03:23,166 --> 01:03:25,320
mid 2 thousands with the left behind series.

1775
01:03:25,574 --> 01:03:26,709
End times thriller

1776
01:03:27,321 --> 01:03:29,410
got big, and there was a lot of

1777
01:03:29,545 --> 01:03:30,045
different,

1778
01:03:30,975 --> 01:03:32,905
copies of the genre, different

1779
01:03:33,279 --> 01:03:34,947
adaptations of that, but the left behind series

1780
01:03:34,947 --> 01:03:36,792
to the day remains unparalleled.

1781
01:03:37,429 --> 01:03:39,498
I was just stopping by the Amazon list

1782
01:03:39,498 --> 01:03:41,965
of the books labeled Christian Sci f. Most

1783
01:03:41,965 --> 01:03:44,273
of those too are time thriller and they're

1784
01:03:44,273 --> 01:03:46,605
almost always exploring the rapture concept somewhere way

1785
01:03:46,605 --> 01:03:47,085
or another.

1786
01:03:47,724 --> 01:03:49,485
I would say too that the left behind

1787
01:03:49,485 --> 01:03:50,945
series sort of incidentally,

1788
01:03:51,565 --> 01:03:54,775
set the stage for secular dystopian novels.

1789
01:03:55,732 --> 01:03:58,604
The secular, especially why dystopian novels. I mean,

1790
01:03:58,764 --> 01:03:59,961
I don't know if someone take a look

1791
01:03:59,961 --> 01:04:01,408
a look high in and thought. I think

1792
01:04:01,487 --> 01:04:03,315
I'll do that except with less Jesus, you

1793
01:04:03,315 --> 01:04:03,474
know,

1794
01:04:04,268 --> 01:04:06,016
but you got the hunger games and some

1795
01:04:06,016 --> 01:04:07,629
of these other trends that followed

1796
01:04:08,019 --> 01:04:10,330
after the left behind series, and then wildly

1797
01:04:10,330 --> 01:04:12,265
enough, you even saw some secular

1798
01:04:12,641 --> 01:04:15,670
priceless re retailing of the rapture concept.

1799
01:04:16,164 --> 01:04:18,238
The leftovers. That's at least 1 example I

1800
01:04:18,238 --> 01:04:19,674
think of I've never saw it because I'm

1801
01:04:19,754 --> 01:04:20,073
Christian.

1802
01:04:20,791 --> 01:04:21,509
But there was

1803
01:04:22,148 --> 01:04:24,632
so much awareness. Of the rapture. You know,

1804
01:04:24,711 --> 01:04:26,778
if you're a post or a post a

1805
01:04:26,778 --> 01:04:29,322
millennial or a millennial, then that is to

1806
01:04:29,561 --> 01:04:30,277
your Cha,

1807
01:04:30,833 --> 01:04:32,596
by the way, I I personally can't lay

1808
01:04:32,596 --> 01:04:34,104
claim to any of those. I'm not trying

1809
01:04:34,104 --> 01:04:35,692
to stand back and criticize them all. I

1810
01:04:35,692 --> 01:04:37,200
just haven't quite figured out where I am.

1811
01:04:37,359 --> 01:04:38,311
And I guess in back of my head,

1812
01:04:38,471 --> 01:04:41,437
I'm still a left behind series pre tribulation

1813
01:04:41,437 --> 01:04:41,597
guy.

1814
01:04:42,317 --> 01:04:44,554
But Jerry, if this were a bio film

1815
01:04:44,554 --> 01:04:47,032
of your life as the Hank Aaron of

1816
01:04:47,111 --> 01:04:48,630
Christian Journey men writers.

1817
01:04:49,202 --> 01:04:51,345
This would appear at the end of the

1818
01:04:51,345 --> 01:04:51,662
movie.

1819
01:04:52,218 --> 01:04:54,837
Jerry Jenkins went on to buy the Christian

1820
01:04:54,837 --> 01:04:57,297
riders guild to train Christian creators.

1821
01:04:57,788 --> 01:04:59,216
He wrote many other books,

1822
01:04:59,851 --> 01:05:00,351
including

1823
01:05:00,724 --> 01:05:03,104
adaptations with his son Dallas of biblical fiction

1824
01:05:03,104 --> 01:05:03,898
with the chosen,

1825
01:05:04,453 --> 01:05:07,250
1 of his favorite novels remains r from

1826
01:05:07,250 --> 01:05:08,204
2009.

1827
01:05:08,761 --> 01:05:10,510
And by the way, Jerry could have retired

1828
01:05:10,510 --> 01:05:12,816
a long time ago. We had we had

1829
01:05:12,816 --> 01:05:15,456
this controversy, at least in some cultural conservative

1830
01:05:15,456 --> 01:05:17,683
circles over whether or not people should retire,

1831
01:05:18,399 --> 01:05:19,831
you have not retired.

1832
01:05:20,481 --> 01:05:22,782
You could have, but you keep a going.

1833
01:05:23,576 --> 01:05:25,480
What in the world keeps you going? Will

1834
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,011
you ever retire

1835
01:05:27,638 --> 01:05:29,149
And and what is it that you love

1836
01:05:29,149 --> 01:05:32,329
so much about writing and just going even

1837
01:05:32,329 --> 01:05:34,158
after, you could have packed it in after

1838
01:05:34,158 --> 01:05:35,192
left behind book 16?

1839
01:05:35,765 --> 01:05:38,244
I don't see retirement in the bible. I

1840
01:05:38,244 --> 01:05:39,765
asked my wife if I should consider,

1841
01:05:40,565 --> 01:05:42,085
retiring. And she said from what?

1842
01:05:44,489 --> 01:05:45,921
She also says she's gonna put on my

1843
01:05:45,921 --> 01:05:47,909
tombstone never an unpublished thought.

1844
01:05:50,309 --> 01:05:51,737
The the real reason that I keep doing

1845
01:05:51,737 --> 01:05:53,719
it, maybe if I worked in a factory,

1846
01:05:53,878 --> 01:05:55,623
and I was doing the same thing with

1847
01:05:55,623 --> 01:05:57,368
my hands every day for 40 years,

1848
01:05:58,098 --> 01:05:59,873
I would really dream of

1849
01:06:00,329 --> 01:06:02,264
stopping doing that when I got

1850
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,313
got to a certain age. That's not been

1851
01:06:04,313 --> 01:06:06,155
the case with me. I'm doing what I

1852
01:06:06,155 --> 01:06:08,296
love, so it doesn't feel like work although,

1853
01:06:08,613 --> 01:06:10,912
I don't love writing. People often say, When

1854
01:06:10,912 --> 01:06:12,339
did you know you loved writing, and I

1855
01:06:12,339 --> 01:06:12,418
say,

1856
01:06:13,149 --> 01:06:14,984
ask a marathon learner of that at the

1857
01:06:14,984 --> 01:06:16,659
20 mile mark. Don't you just love her

1858
01:06:16,659 --> 01:06:18,574
running? You might get a response and a

1859
01:06:18,574 --> 01:06:20,170
gesture that you didn't expect it?

1860
01:06:20,903 --> 01:06:24,096
The fact is writing done well is grueling.

1861
01:06:24,495 --> 01:06:26,570
So what I love about it, I love

1862
01:06:26,570 --> 01:06:28,726
being a writer. I love being known as

1863
01:06:28,726 --> 01:06:29,125
a writer,

1864
01:06:29,859 --> 01:06:31,217
I love having written.

1865
01:06:31,857 --> 01:06:33,855
I love all the the things that have

1866
01:06:33,855 --> 01:06:34,414
come from it,

1867
01:06:35,293 --> 01:06:37,451
and the fact that it's helped me follow

1868
01:06:37,451 --> 01:06:39,545
my true call, which a full time christian

1869
01:06:39,545 --> 01:06:41,385
work. Well, that call doesn't end.

1870
01:06:42,025 --> 01:06:44,264
Do do I... At some point, say, I'm

1871
01:06:44,264 --> 01:06:46,515
done writing and and I do write at

1872
01:06:46,515 --> 01:06:48,503
a different pace these days. I want each

1873
01:06:48,503 --> 01:06:50,014
book to be better than the last, and

1874
01:06:50,014 --> 01:06:51,922
the more you write the harder that becomes.

1875
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,706
So I'm writing slower, and where I'm choo

1876
01:06:54,706 --> 01:06:56,792
about what I take. I'm thrilled to be

1877
01:06:56,792 --> 01:06:58,787
writing books that go along with my son's,

1878
01:06:58,867 --> 01:07:01,282
you know, Tv show. But I'm... I can't

1879
01:07:01,501 --> 01:07:03,495
retire from the call to full time person

1880
01:07:03,495 --> 01:07:05,910
work. That that's gonna last till... Hopefully the

1881
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:06,390
day I die.

1882
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:08,710
Jerry, 1 of the books you've written in

1883
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:12,079
recent years was dead sea rising and my

1884
01:07:12,079 --> 01:07:15,336
wife Naomi really enjoyed that book. Then Covid

1885
01:07:15,336 --> 01:07:16,846
happened, and I think every a lot of

1886
01:07:16,846 --> 01:07:17,164
things

1887
01:07:18,038 --> 01:07:20,000
got shuffled around, but then the second book

1888
01:07:20,199 --> 01:07:22,115
Dead sea conspiracy looks like that came out

1889
01:07:22,115 --> 01:07:25,170
2 years ago. Is there going to be

1890
01:07:25,228 --> 01:07:27,245
more in that series or was that a?

1891
01:07:27,703 --> 01:07:29,594
What's what what can you tell us about

1892
01:07:29,635 --> 01:07:31,875
the plans for that book. It actually was

1893
01:07:31,875 --> 01:07:32,914
only gonna be 1.

1894
01:07:33,394 --> 01:07:35,474
And and then the for the first 1

1895
01:07:35,474 --> 01:07:37,715
did well enough to to warrant a second

1896
01:07:37,715 --> 01:07:39,969
1. So the whole question, I guess is

1897
01:07:39,969 --> 01:07:40,469
is

1898
01:07:40,849 --> 01:07:42,690
how well the second 1 did. Would... Are

1899
01:07:42,690 --> 01:07:44,929
they calling for a third because the character

1900
01:07:44,929 --> 01:07:47,582
is young enough, and I can embed other,

1901
01:07:47,742 --> 01:07:47,901
you know,

1902
01:07:48,780 --> 01:07:50,695
scenarios for her. I'd love to do and

1903
01:07:50,695 --> 01:07:52,691
it'd be kinda fun. I... There's nothing in

1904
01:07:52,691 --> 01:07:54,607
that works at this point. But Okay. I

1905
01:07:54,607 --> 01:07:55,645
have a lot of fun with those books.

1906
01:07:55,979 --> 01:07:57,809
Well, and as Steven mentioned there's... You know,

1907
01:07:57,888 --> 01:08:00,275
there's all these other dystopian, it... It's like

1908
01:08:00,275 --> 01:08:02,684
you said a priceless left behind where people

1909
01:08:02,741 --> 01:08:04,252
disappear and now there's really no reason for

1910
01:08:04,252 --> 01:08:04,411
it.

1911
01:08:05,063 --> 01:08:07,457
There's a Tv show about 15 or so

1912
01:08:07,457 --> 01:08:09,212
years ago, 20 years ago. I I really

1913
01:08:09,212 --> 01:08:10,489
like called the 4400,

1914
01:08:11,127 --> 01:08:11,446
which

1915
01:08:12,019 --> 01:08:13,615
know, it's it's like you remove the 1

1916
01:08:13,615 --> 01:08:14,972
and the 0 from the end of a

1917
01:08:14,972 --> 01:08:16,009
hundred and 44000.

1918
01:08:16,408 --> 01:08:19,461
And it's about 4400 people that had disappeared

1919
01:08:19,932 --> 01:08:21,684
at different points in the past, and now

1920
01:08:21,684 --> 01:08:23,673
they've returned and they all have superpower.

1921
01:08:24,469 --> 01:08:26,083
And so that was kind of an interesting

1922
01:08:26,380 --> 01:08:26,936
spin on that.

1923
01:08:27,589 --> 01:08:28,945
And it... You know, it seems like every

1924
01:08:28,945 --> 01:08:32,297
few years, this this kicks around this idea

1925
01:08:32,297 --> 01:08:34,372
that, what, what if people disappeared or came

1926
01:08:34,372 --> 01:08:36,381
back and There's the end of the world,

1927
01:08:36,541 --> 01:08:38,717
and it it just seems like there's something

1928
01:08:38,855 --> 01:08:39,095
in...

1929
01:08:39,972 --> 01:08:41,488
I don't know if it's American culture or

1930
01:08:41,488 --> 01:08:42,707
just human culture

1931
01:08:43,098 --> 01:08:45,905
that we're so interested in end times

1932
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:46,996
type stories.

1933
01:08:47,552 --> 01:08:49,223
So my question for you is, you know,

1934
01:08:50,033 --> 01:08:51,385
Yeah. Maybe Steven, I do need to get

1935
01:08:51,385 --> 01:08:53,449
out. We have our favorite plagues, but do

1936
01:08:53,449 --> 01:08:54,983
you have any other favorite

1937
01:08:55,753 --> 01:08:59,425
times dystopian type stories, whether books or movies

1938
01:08:59,425 --> 01:09:00,221
or that sort of thing.

1939
01:09:00,938 --> 01:09:02,927
Actually, I don't. I feel like, you know,

1940
01:09:03,087 --> 01:09:05,237
16 books with, you know, I don't know

1941
01:09:05,237 --> 01:09:06,453
how many million words

1942
01:09:06,844 --> 01:09:08,278
I've kinda said what I want what I

1943
01:09:08,278 --> 01:09:12,021
wanna to said. You're done. It's times. Well,

1944
01:09:12,499 --> 01:09:14,331
I loved what it's what it's done in

1945
01:09:14,331 --> 01:09:16,655
the and the conversations it's created and what

1946
01:09:16,655 --> 01:09:19,304
it's done, you know, for people's faith. But

1947
01:09:19,440 --> 01:09:21,453
on my plate are the the next

1948
01:09:22,067 --> 01:09:25,031
chosen novels up through season 7. And then

1949
01:09:25,112 --> 01:09:26,707
I'd like to do a bigger, you know,

1950
01:09:26,867 --> 01:09:28,703
writing for the soul. I I wouldn't call

1951
01:09:28,703 --> 01:09:30,880
it that, but it'd be a sort of

1952
01:09:30,938 --> 01:09:33,429
combination memoir writing book with all the teaching

1953
01:09:33,588 --> 01:09:35,426
I've done over the last 10 years online.

1954
01:09:36,145 --> 01:09:37,504
I I used to I don't wanna sound

1955
01:09:37,504 --> 01:09:39,522
falsely modest, but I don't think people want

1956
01:09:39,582 --> 01:09:40,961
necessarily my memoir

1957
01:09:41,274 --> 01:09:43,192
They're they're they're less interested in me than

1958
01:09:43,192 --> 01:09:45,588
in the the famous people I've met, But

1959
01:09:45,588 --> 01:09:47,027
that's part of my story so I can

1960
01:09:47,027 --> 01:09:49,431
tell those stories too, but That's that's what

1961
01:09:49,591 --> 01:09:51,971
I foresee for my future. Yeah. I want

1962
01:09:51,971 --> 01:09:53,956
to read that book, Jerry. I very much

1963
01:09:53,956 --> 01:09:56,258
look forward to that. And I also look

1964
01:09:56,258 --> 01:09:58,905
forward by the way. To finding out what

1965
01:09:58,905 --> 01:10:01,465
the end times actually look like. And how

1966
01:10:01,465 --> 01:10:03,145
much of the left behind series is going

1967
01:10:03,145 --> 01:10:06,765
to be re adapted in reality if that

1968
01:10:07,079 --> 01:10:09,873
But finally, Jerry, before, we let you go,

1969
01:10:10,193 --> 01:10:11,789
well, we need to have people go to

1970
01:10:11,789 --> 01:10:14,344
jerry jenkins dot com, the Christian riders guild,

1971
01:10:14,503 --> 01:10:16,020
like, any any links you wanna throw out

1972
01:10:16,020 --> 01:10:17,548
and then I have a closing question for

1973
01:10:17,548 --> 01:10:19,456
you. Yeah. It's not just called the Jerry

1974
01:10:19,456 --> 01:10:21,681
jenkins writers guild, and and it is at

1975
01:10:21,681 --> 01:10:23,669
jerry jenkins dot com, and we have everything

1976
01:10:23,669 --> 01:10:24,169
from

1977
01:10:24,877 --> 01:10:26,949
free blogs and tips and all that up

1978
01:10:26,949 --> 01:10:29,579
to courses that are some modestly priced and

1979
01:10:29,579 --> 01:10:32,185
some expensive. But something there for everybody, I

1980
01:10:32,385 --> 01:10:33,901
can love to help people who want who

1981
01:10:33,901 --> 01:10:34,539
wanna be writers.

1982
01:10:35,177 --> 01:10:37,014
And then I think left behind dot com

1983
01:10:37,014 --> 01:10:39,728
is still active as well, but w, no

1984
01:10:39,728 --> 01:10:40,605
more message board.

1985
01:10:41,576 --> 01:10:44,199
Jerry, as a daughter close, yeah, what do

1986
01:10:44,199 --> 01:10:46,345
you look forward to most? Not just in

1987
01:10:46,345 --> 01:10:49,207
heaven because we're either gonna get rapture as

1988
01:10:49,207 --> 01:10:52,414
believers at the prem mid or post tribulation,

1989
01:10:52,814 --> 01:10:54,335
or we're just going to get to have

1990
01:10:54,335 --> 01:10:56,494
in the old fashioned way death. What do

1991
01:10:56,494 --> 01:10:58,574
you look forward to then in heaven?

1992
01:10:59,228 --> 01:11:00,820
And then even the new heavens and new

1993
01:11:00,820 --> 01:11:02,412
earth after that, do you think you'll keep

1994
01:11:02,412 --> 01:11:04,243
on writing or what do you look forward

1995
01:11:04,243 --> 01:11:06,234
to the most? Yeah. I've never thought about

1996
01:11:06,234 --> 01:11:08,154
that, whether I'd was I'd still be writing.

1997
01:11:08,391 --> 01:11:10,397
I can't imagine they're being need for

1998
01:11:10,769 --> 01:11:12,671
my words, the the word will have come

1999
01:11:12,671 --> 01:11:13,779
to life for everybody.

2000
01:11:14,587 --> 01:11:16,812
Yeah. I I have so many questions that

2001
01:11:16,891 --> 01:11:19,036
I love to have answered. That's why that's

2002
01:11:19,036 --> 01:11:21,658
why eternity is that long for the questions

2003
01:11:21,658 --> 01:11:22,452
we have, you know?

2004
01:11:23,181 --> 01:11:24,292
The Gospel is a mystery.

2005
01:11:24,927 --> 01:11:26,514
And and I wanna know the why and

2006
01:11:26,514 --> 01:11:27,863
where for and and

2007
01:11:28,418 --> 01:11:30,981
and plus the the same question everybody asks,

2008
01:11:31,687 --> 01:11:34,416
I've I've come to a place of peace

2009
01:11:34,472 --> 01:11:34,791
with it.

2010
01:11:35,507 --> 01:11:37,736
No matter what bad happens to me in

2011
01:11:37,736 --> 01:11:38,691
my life ever.

2012
01:11:39,822 --> 01:11:41,760
I know I'm not getting what I really

2013
01:11:41,818 --> 01:11:42,057
deserve,

2014
01:11:42,855 --> 01:11:44,452
and and I'm grateful for that.

2015
01:11:45,171 --> 01:11:47,166
But I have those questions. You know, what

2016
01:11:47,166 --> 01:11:47,859
why do

2017
01:11:48,613 --> 01:11:50,042
such... I mean, people that I know that

2018
01:11:50,042 --> 01:11:52,819
are absolutely sold out for Christ, sometimes suffer

2019
01:11:52,819 --> 01:11:53,771
more than anybody.

2020
01:11:54,803 --> 01:11:57,203
They lose loved ones. They they face, you

2021
01:11:57,203 --> 01:12:00,234
know, cancer themselves? They, you know, what is

2022
01:12:00,234 --> 01:12:02,627
behind that? Why doesn't God some some intervene

2023
01:12:02,627 --> 01:12:03,426
when we think he should?

2024
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:05,920
Just the idea of of,

2025
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:07,780
eternal rest

2026
01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:10,640
and in the presence of God, you, who

2027
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:11,760
who could ask for more than that?

2028
01:12:12,731 --> 01:12:14,882
Amen. Jerry, thank you so much. Thank you

2029
01:12:14,882 --> 01:12:16,497
for your life. Your work. Testimony,

2030
01:12:17,032 --> 01:12:18,227
fictional worlds, plagues,

2031
01:12:18,864 --> 01:12:20,775
all that good stuff about the bad stuff.

2032
01:12:21,189 --> 01:12:22,545
I want to wish you gods speed to

2033
01:12:22,545 --> 01:12:24,698
you and yours and a fantastic rest of

2034
01:12:24,698 --> 01:12:26,294
your career, and I look forward to talking

2035
01:12:26,294 --> 01:12:28,128
to you some other time. Well, thanks so

2036
01:12:28,128 --> 01:12:30,122
much, Stephen Zach for having me honest. It's

2037
01:12:30,122 --> 01:12:32,522
been been fun. Appreciate so much. And thanks

2038
01:12:32,522 --> 01:12:34,188
for how you minister to all of us

2039
01:12:34,506 --> 01:12:35,061
through your.

2040
01:12:39,288 --> 01:12:41,845
Well, to you are listener, you heard Jerry

2041
01:12:41,845 --> 01:12:43,763
kinda teased Steven there a little bit that

2042
01:12:43,763 --> 01:12:45,202
he had a favorite plague.

2043
01:12:45,761 --> 01:12:46,240
I own it.

2044
01:12:47,292 --> 01:12:49,514
And maybe you have a favorite play. We

2045
01:12:49,514 --> 01:12:51,577
would love to know that we'd love for

2046
01:12:51,577 --> 01:12:53,346
you to send us a note to podcast

2047
01:12:53,719 --> 01:12:54,988
at lower haven dot com.

2048
01:12:55,639 --> 01:12:57,712
Or tell us about your favorite characters or

2049
01:12:57,712 --> 01:12:59,147
favorite moments for the series.

2050
01:12:59,705 --> 01:13:02,256
And most importantly, we would love to know

2051
01:13:02,256 --> 01:13:03,952
how are you preparing

2052
01:13:04,582 --> 01:13:05,935
For the return of Jesus,

2053
01:13:06,412 --> 01:13:07,628
perhaps at any moment

2054
01:13:08,003 --> 01:13:10,310
in a the twin M and I, rapture,

2055
01:13:10,707 --> 01:13:11,207
perhaps

2056
01:13:11,678 --> 01:13:12,793
in some other form,

2057
01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:17,096
pre post mid trip, a millennial whatever.

2058
01:13:17,654 --> 01:13:19,822
How are you preparing for that to happen

2059
01:13:19,822 --> 01:13:21,039
in your es

2060
01:13:21,656 --> 01:13:24,128
view. So send us a note to podcast

2061
01:13:24,128 --> 01:13:26,442
at lower haven dot com or find us

2062
01:13:26,442 --> 01:13:27,000
on Facebook,

2063
01:13:27,557 --> 01:13:28,275
Instagram and Twitter,

2064
01:13:29,167 --> 01:13:30,763
Now we wanna turn to Some notes that

2065
01:13:30,763 --> 01:13:34,353
we got previously. So after our episode 218

2066
01:13:34,353 --> 01:13:35,390
with Chris Fab,

2067
01:13:36,123 --> 01:13:38,116
the author of the left behind kids series

2068
01:13:38,116 --> 01:13:38,834
or coa author.

2069
01:13:39,949 --> 01:13:41,863
We got this note from 1 of the

2070
01:13:41,863 --> 01:13:43,697
heroes in our Lore Haven Guild who said,

2071
01:13:43,856 --> 01:13:44,015
quote,

2072
01:13:45,068 --> 01:13:46,981
This was a great episode. I was too

2073
01:13:46,981 --> 01:13:49,135
young when the left behind books were coming

2074
01:13:49,135 --> 01:13:51,688
out. I remember asking my mom to read

2075
01:13:51,688 --> 01:13:53,761
them, but she said they were too scary

2076
01:13:53,761 --> 01:13:54,080
for us.

2077
01:13:54,811 --> 01:13:57,356
But for a garage sale or library sale,

2078
01:13:57,515 --> 01:13:59,425
we had 1 left behind kids book,

2079
01:14:00,140 --> 01:14:01,810
and it was a random book like number

2080
01:14:01,810 --> 01:14:02,527
8 or 9.

2081
01:14:03,578 --> 01:14:05,576
I don't remember much of it other than

2082
01:14:05,576 --> 01:14:07,733
really enjoying it and wishing I had the

2083
01:14:07,733 --> 01:14:07,972
rest.

2084
01:14:09,171 --> 01:14:12,143
This episode sparked my memory and had me

2085
01:14:12,143 --> 01:14:15,019
dangerously close to buying the whole left buying

2086
01:14:15,019 --> 01:14:16,637
kids series from ebay

2087
01:14:17,096 --> 01:14:18,775
to fulfill my childhood wishes.

2088
01:14:19,586 --> 01:14:21,412
I'd love to go back and read not

2089
01:14:21,412 --> 01:14:23,739
only the adult books, but the kid ones

2090
01:14:23,795 --> 01:14:26,891
also. The audio drama also sounds pretty epic.

2091
01:14:27,385 --> 01:14:29,859
It quote. Yeah. Right now, I think it

2092
01:14:29,859 --> 01:14:32,255
is kind of nostalgic, even listening to the

2093
01:14:32,255 --> 01:14:34,809
audio drama, I've noticed that... Even though the

2094
01:14:34,809 --> 01:14:36,645
audio drama kind of updated a few things

2095
01:14:36,645 --> 01:14:38,418
like, instead of a 07:57.

2096
01:14:38,578 --> 01:14:40,096
It's AA777.

2097
01:14:40,496 --> 01:14:42,094
And I think in the audio drama, they

2098
01:14:42,094 --> 01:14:44,412
get video conferencing much earlier than the folks

2099
01:14:44,412 --> 01:14:47,461
in the the main book series, but I'm

2100
01:14:47,461 --> 01:14:48,731
with Jerry who said earlier,

2101
01:14:49,367 --> 01:14:51,432
that he's content to just to leave the

2102
01:14:51,432 --> 01:14:53,497
series as it is and not try to

2103
01:14:53,497 --> 01:14:55,087
update it over and over again for each

2104
01:14:55,087 --> 01:14:56,437
new iteration of technology.

2105
01:14:57,250 --> 01:14:59,010
Eventually, technology technologies is just gonna kind of

2106
01:14:59,010 --> 01:15:00,770
out it, and so I would suggest that

2107
01:15:00,770 --> 01:15:01,989
if we ever do

2108
01:15:02,369 --> 01:15:05,811
a streaming series. Based on the left behind

2109
01:15:05,811 --> 01:15:08,113
books. Hint hint, please Lord. That would be

2110
01:15:08,113 --> 01:15:10,733
amazing within my lifetime within Jerry's lifetime, I'd

2111
01:15:10,733 --> 01:15:11,447
love to see that.

2112
01:15:12,097 --> 01:15:14,405
I would love to see that maintain that

2113
01:15:14,405 --> 01:15:17,031
alternate history of the original series,

2114
01:15:17,826 --> 01:15:19,974
where the technology throughout the left behind series

2115
01:15:19,974 --> 01:15:22,136
is advancing a similar pace as it did

2116
01:15:22,136 --> 01:15:24,125
when the series was first coming out or

2117
01:15:24,125 --> 01:15:25,715
you start off with modems and then you

2118
01:15:25,715 --> 01:15:27,702
end up with Wifi, and then nobody ever

2119
01:15:27,702 --> 01:15:29,546
quite gets a smartphone. But there was a

2120
01:15:29,546 --> 01:15:31,137
little more sci f flourish that came in,

2121
01:15:31,535 --> 01:15:33,762
that latter half of the tribulation, which I

2122
01:15:33,762 --> 01:15:36,163
as a Sci f fan, always appreciated. Yeah.

2123
01:15:36,481 --> 01:15:38,073
Steven, the thing I always think about is

2124
01:15:38,073 --> 01:15:39,130
the cell sole

2125
01:15:39,585 --> 01:15:41,891
system. The cellular towers... I see what he

2126
01:15:41,891 --> 01:15:44,358
did there. Solar panel and a satellite up

2127
01:15:44,358 --> 01:15:46,123
link and imagine that way, they don't to

2128
01:15:46,123 --> 01:15:47,873
worry about all the landline that got messed

2129
01:15:47,873 --> 01:15:49,862
up with all the earthquakes and and whatnot.

2130
01:15:50,657 --> 01:15:52,824
And you know, I was I went to

2131
01:15:52,824 --> 01:15:53,725
college for

2132
01:15:54,265 --> 01:15:56,984
telecommunications engineering technology. And so I latched on

2133
01:15:56,984 --> 01:15:58,744
immediately to that. I thought, oh, how this

2134
01:15:58,744 --> 01:15:59,680
gonna work and

2135
01:16:00,038 --> 01:16:01,713
And now we're living in the age where

2136
01:16:01,713 --> 01:16:05,141
there's Star link Internet. Thanks to Elon Musk

2137
01:16:05,141 --> 01:16:07,215
and, you know, you can get a satellite

2138
01:16:07,215 --> 01:16:09,704
up link on your house and even Apple

2139
01:16:09,704 --> 01:16:12,505
now has a, a satellite kind of Sos

2140
01:16:12,505 --> 01:16:14,104
mode on some of the phones and I

2141
01:16:14,104 --> 01:16:16,685
think even the Apple Watch Pro or something

2142
01:16:17,315 --> 01:16:20,095
So, you know, that that technology is becoming

2143
01:16:20,095 --> 01:16:22,795
very commonplace and it's... So what does that

2144
01:16:22,795 --> 01:16:24,224
mean 1 of them? But Tim Cook or

2145
01:16:24,224 --> 01:16:26,409
eel elon musk is the antichrist will know

2146
01:16:26,467 --> 01:16:29,256
necessarily. But it means that that's gonna already

2147
01:16:29,256 --> 01:16:31,326
be in place now for when we get

2148
01:16:31,326 --> 01:16:33,499
into that era, again depending on your es.

2149
01:16:34,448 --> 01:16:36,042
But let's go to another note we got

2150
01:16:36,042 --> 01:16:38,432
from A hero or rather a heroin of

2151
01:16:38,432 --> 01:16:39,150
the guild,

2152
01:16:39,787 --> 01:16:42,354
who heard the next episode 02:19 with Todd

2153
01:16:42,515 --> 01:16:44,994
Best steed, who is the, audio engineer of

2154
01:16:44,994 --> 01:16:46,195
the audio drama series.

2155
01:16:47,074 --> 01:16:48,354
And this person says, quote,

2156
01:16:49,155 --> 01:16:51,970
really enjoyed this episode. The audio drama was

2157
01:16:51,970 --> 01:16:54,949
how I first encountered the left behind series

2158
01:16:55,010 --> 01:16:55,890
as a we last.

2159
01:16:56,850 --> 01:16:59,497
I was obsessed with it. And then I

2160
01:16:59,497 --> 01:17:02,118
picked up the books, but I've always considered

2161
01:17:02,118 --> 01:17:03,946
the audio production to be superior.

2162
01:17:04,581 --> 01:17:07,044
Listening to all of these behind the scenes

2163
01:17:07,044 --> 01:17:07,997
details was amazing.

2164
01:17:08,569 --> 01:17:11,046
Thanks for both the nostalgia and the new

2165
01:17:11,046 --> 01:17:14,822
insights quote. Yeah. There's nothing like hearing this

2166
01:17:14,961 --> 01:17:15,461
distorted

2167
01:17:16,569 --> 01:17:20,228
insane voice, calling throughout the heavens whoa, whoa,

2168
01:17:20,546 --> 01:17:22,670
woe to the inhabitants of the earth

2169
01:17:23,426 --> 01:17:25,416
because of the Trumpets of the remaining angels

2170
01:17:25,416 --> 01:17:27,327
which are yet to sound. It it looks

2171
01:17:27,327 --> 01:17:29,317
kinda scary on the page, but when you

2172
01:17:29,317 --> 01:17:32,036
actually hear it out loud and everybody's cow

2173
01:17:32,036 --> 01:17:33,703
and crying, except for the Christians, of course,

2174
01:17:34,576 --> 01:17:36,957
it's definitely more of a spooky effect. So

2175
01:17:36,957 --> 01:17:38,783
there's just some things that the the audio

2176
01:17:38,783 --> 01:17:40,029
drama series can't help

2177
01:17:40,469 --> 01:17:42,466
doing better, but there's so many more details

2178
01:17:42,466 --> 01:17:43,745
though in the book. That, of course, you

2179
01:17:43,745 --> 01:17:45,743
will lose the adaptation. I think they they're

2180
01:17:45,743 --> 01:17:48,140
are both excellent for what they were trying

2181
01:17:48,140 --> 01:17:50,070
to be or the audience they were trying

2182
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:50,390
to reach.

2183
01:17:51,108 --> 01:17:53,341
From there, we can put a bow on

2184
01:17:53,341 --> 01:17:56,451
the left behind legacy series at least 4

2185
01:17:56,451 --> 01:17:58,525
now as I've hinted a few times, I'm

2186
01:17:58,525 --> 01:18:00,456
guessing we will have more of the story

2187
01:18:00,456 --> 01:18:00,854
to share.

2188
01:18:01,732 --> 01:18:03,568
Maybe a few years from now, maybe 18

2189
01:18:03,568 --> 01:18:05,563
months from now. I don't know. I can't

2190
01:18:05,563 --> 01:18:08,203
make the prediction just as no 1 can

2191
01:18:08,203 --> 01:18:10,349
know the day or hour of Christ's return.

2192
01:18:10,984 --> 01:18:12,573
I just know that it wasn't in 19

2193
01:18:12,573 --> 01:18:14,416
95, and then who knows it could begin

2194
01:18:14,416 --> 01:18:17,677
20 25. It could be 22 25. Either

2195
01:18:17,677 --> 01:18:20,382
way, watch and wait, and next on fantastical

2196
01:18:20,382 --> 01:18:20,621
truth.

2197
01:18:21,193 --> 01:18:23,662
Cain cross once dreamed of helping make dream

2198
01:18:23,662 --> 01:18:23,981
worlds.

2199
01:18:24,538 --> 01:18:27,269
Now their world is being attacked by another

2200
01:18:27,485 --> 01:18:29,716
pandemic. This 1 strikes as you sleep,

2201
01:18:30,289 --> 01:18:33,326
sending its victims into dark tunnels of despair

2202
01:18:33,326 --> 01:18:35,243
to fight for their waking lives.

2203
01:18:35,802 --> 01:18:38,439
We seek a cure for the nightmare virus.

2204
01:18:38,934 --> 01:18:42,231
The new Y sci f thriller from Nadine

2205
01:18:42,530 --> 01:18:43,010
Brand,

2206
01:18:43,569 --> 01:18:45,327
which by the way, sounds a little bit

2207
01:18:45,327 --> 01:18:47,426
like 1 of the horsemen of the apocalypse

2208
01:18:47,819 --> 01:18:49,972
But I hope that we will look more

2209
01:18:49,972 --> 01:18:51,270
for christ than

2210
01:18:51,728 --> 01:18:53,344
antichrist. No matter your es,

2211
01:18:53,961 --> 01:18:56,434
no matter the end time series or scenarios

2212
01:18:56,434 --> 01:18:57,492
that you enjoy

2213
01:18:58,199 --> 01:19:01,131
revelation is about hope. Price return is about

2214
01:19:01,131 --> 01:19:03,825
hope. Yes. Prepare for the bad guys. Prepare

2215
01:19:03,825 --> 01:19:04,459
for the plagues,

2216
01:19:05,109 --> 01:19:06,381
You may even want to build a bomb

2217
01:19:06,381 --> 01:19:08,393
shelter in the backyard in case the beast

2218
01:19:08,688 --> 01:19:10,916
usher in World war whatever.

2219
01:19:11,393 --> 01:19:13,717
But Look to Christ. Let's look forward to

2220
01:19:13,717 --> 01:19:16,506
his coming, and let's enjoy amazing stories about

2221
01:19:16,506 --> 01:19:18,577
his coming as we continue to seek and

2222
01:19:18,577 --> 01:19:20,489
find his fantastical truth.