20 years ago, 2 authors, 1 publisher,
12 action thriller novels
and 40 teen spin off books came to
a grand finale with the fictional return of
Jesus Christ to Earth.
1 of those top authors, marriage and prophecy
teacher, Tim La
has since passed to his eternal rest. The
other author who's written hundreds of novels Jerry
Jenkins is still working and today, Jenkins joins
us to explore the left behind of legacy.
Speculative fiction like no other genre
reflects the creativity of God.
If you look at the scriptures, you're gonna
have to see that God uses
imagination more than rash rational discourse.
We are supposed to be image bearer
for vastly creative God.
Reading fantastical fiction opened a portal in my
imagination for a place other than just a
materialistic world.
I experienced the gospel story with the mind
of someone who loved adventure and loved the
idea of light conquered darkness.
We're wired for stories that reflect how we
see the world in ways that are true.
The story is either need to price or
it's pointing to our need for christ.
Welcome a anew to fantastical truth that the
summer hot boiler podcast from lore haven dot
com in which we explore fantastical stories for
God's glory. And I am east Steven Burnett
burnett, the publisher of Lore haven an author
of a new science fiction adventure novel releasing
it next year from enclave publishing, and I
am so glad that today's guest was not
rapture at 19 95.
Because if he had been tribulation or not,
this podcast would not exist.
And I'm Zachary, Russell, and, you know, in
Christian sub culture, there's kind of this ongoing
joke of playing rapture prank
where you set out some clothes and wait
till someone comes back and making them think
that they
were rapture. Unfortunately, I never got to do
that, but we'll get the next best thing,
which is this episode 02:21,
How did the left behind series.
And rapture millions of fans, and I'm so
excited to be talking to the author of
that series today, Jerry Jenkins.
I never pulled that prank. I never had
that frank pulled on me. Guess I didn't
go to the right summer camps. I went
to 1 summer camp. Maybe they were post
tribulation like Usa za. They didn't believe in
a pre tribulation rapture like the left behind
series. I did, however, based on enjoyment of
the series, make some cringe fan art of
myself getting rapture, But, you know, I'm grateful
that I didn't get wrapped shirt. It the
rapture did not occur in 19 95.
But if it had been, it would look
a lot like the left behind series or
at least book 1,
And as we've seen throughout this left behind
legacy series, we've been doing this summer on
fantastical truth, I still to this day,
stan the left behind books. I I'm am
a big fan. I don't even know if
I agree with the end times view as
we heard about several episodes go 216
actually, When Zack and I did our friendly
debate. But I still love this series for
what it was doing,
for the heart and the evangelist and entertainment
motives of its creators.
Now I look forward to learning more about
the origins of that series when our guest
arrives. Yeah. You know, Steven, I... I've shared
this before, but left behind is a big
reason that I found you and we became
friends and started doing this podcast,
I
somehow came across the, kind of the previous
version of the or hidden website where you
had several articles that said, you know, left
behind is still awesome.
And I really wanted to hang around with
people like that that that, like, you and
others that said, you know, I wanna celebrate
the Christian fiction I grew up with or
that I discovered in young adulthood or even
as an adult I don't wanna be 1
of those Christians. It's too cool for school,
and thanks,
you know, all these billions of people that
like this book. They're somehow wrong. You know,
I I've shared before I've I grew up
in Austin, Texas where it's all about the
Indie music scene and, you know, you're too
cool for pop music and You've gotta go
End and and obviously, we interview a lot
of Indie authors on this podcast, but we
also interview authors,
a very popular books that where once upon
a time sold at Walmart.
And, you know, do you ever see Christian
fiction on display at Walmart? It is kind
of
unusual
And what's great about the left behind series
is how many
people outside of the usual, you know, reading
habits of of finding fantastical stories
For god's glory that we review and find
it Lore haven.
This reached so many people you you wouldn't
even know had read these books.
It's had such a wide impact on culture.
I mean, Nicholas Cage starred in a movie
based on these books. So That tells you
to bring that up. Yeah.
Yes. And so this has made such an
impact, and I... I'm so excited to
find out more about how this series have
evolved overtime or it was intelligently designed depending
on your, you know? You just can't beat
the book and they're 12 left behind books.
And I I don't think there's any way
they could have gotten so far
as capturing the apocalyptic
scale and the prolonged relationship drama throughout out
the left behind series. And they're surprising amount
of relationship drama in your folks up. You
know, people fall in love, get married, to
have kids and try to figure out what
they're gonna do with the kids, when the
Antichrist is on your tail, it really isn't
an an extremely thrilling series, And I've enjoyed,
rei
myself in that world through the venue of
the audio drama. We've talked earlier with Pod
steed and Darby Ke and Chris Fab, who
had a big hand in putting together the
audio drama monetization the left behind series, And
then Dan Bay, who was the former marketing
head at Ty House in the episode 217,
he helped us steward the resources
that sent these books into so many readers
hands
20 to 30 years ago, really been fun
to explore the left behind legacy. And I'm
guessing we may have more of this story
to tell just like the left behind guys
figured out. Once they were 2, 3 books
in and realized
we were insane to think we could cover
7 year tribulation in 1 book or even
3 book. So meanwhile, the left behind books
and times fiction are not by any means
the only books that we enjoy exploring at
Laura Haven.
We also review the best newer Christian made
fantastical novels that we can find whether it's
sci, dystopian, fantasy paranormal, whatever,
there's so many more of these books coming
out. Of the fantastical Christian made genre is
growing, and we want to be there to
find the best ones, and you can subscribe
free at laura haven dot com and get
weekly reviews.
Articles when we can spare them, news as
well. And, of course, updates if you like
about our, Tuesday episodes of this podcast
We'll also send you a link to join
the Lore haven Guild, our exclusive discord community,
and I'll talk more about that a little
later on in this episode.
1 of those new books that we reviewed
is a title just released from our top
sponsor,
Enclave publishing
It is called the nightmare virus by Nadine
Brand and spoiler alert. Next week, we're gonna
have Nadine on the show to explore the
origins of this story. The nightmare virus starts
with this premise, some viruses go after the
body, but the nightmare virus goes after the
mind
When dream technology goes wrong, a virus spreads
across the globe but trapping people in a
universal dreams scape, they call it the nightmare
virus.
King Cross is determined to find a cure
if he can decipher his brother's chicken scratch
formula notes. But when he gets infected, he
has only 22 days until he's trapped in
the mental prison forever.
Now every time he falls asleep, he must
fight in a nightmare arena until he earns
his freedom to live in the new world
that exists only in the mind.
Then he finds a way to manipulate the
nightmare there to change it by mere thought,
forced to navigate a world of night beasts,
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Kane turns his focus to survival? Will he
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And the bigger question might be, will he
even have a choice.
Enclave escape presents the nightmare virus by award
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and it is available now wherever fantastic books
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nightmare virus at your favorite books seller or
your local library.
On enclave Publishing by the way is a
division of Oasis family media, and you can
see that cool cover and more info on
our shown notes for this episode
221
or go to lord haven dot com slash
podcast.
I hear the ding and ding or whatever
sentence did you wanna say something brother. You
know, Steven, the interesting thing to me is
how this series came out in the mid
nineties. I I mentioned the whole, you know,
church camp rapture joke thing.
But something kind of ee similar happened to
me
in 2001.
So on the morning of 09:11,
I woke up to an empty house. I
lived with 3 roommates at the time,
and I woke up and no 1 was
there and yet the Tv was on showing
the twin towers, you know, burning from the
2 plane attacks.
And it was years before this that I
had watched the left behind movie,
and I hadn't read the book by this
point. I... But I had seen the Kirk
Cameron movie,
and
it was implied in the movie, how there
were
un piloted
aircraft,
crashing around the country and we heard
with our previous guest Todd Ba steed,
how there was a a moment in the
audio drama where you just hear the static
from another plane and they're wondering what happened
to it. So before, we had all the
fiction that was inspired by 09:11. We we
had
fiction that
really started imagining what would happen if airplanes
were totally out of control. It's not that
Jerry necessarily predicted that future that that we
have lived in post 09:11
where at, you know, airport security has just
gone very extreme.
But he did sort of predict our
future of a fiction of of thinking about
all these things. So I'm curious to know
how he's going to arrive today if he
came by airplane or some other means.
Well, if I had a nickel for every
time a Jenkins led fiction project ended up
changing the face of evangelical culture.
I'd have 2 nickel, which isn't much, but
it's weird that it happened twice.
Now with Dallas jenkins, his son with the
chosen and originally with Jerry Jenkins, who is
even now arriving in our studio.
Jerry Jenkins has just roar into the studio
in his 19 twenties purple bentley and if
you thought they didn't make 1 of those,
well, they did because this is fantastical truth,
so you can fantastical utilize the vehicle Jerry,
thank you so much for joining us. Great
to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. Great to see you. I'm I'm more
of a Ford Mustang kind of guy, but
it's that was my first car, but that's
okay. Been bentley laser are pretty cool too.
Mine was my, great grandmother's 19 88 White
Capri priest. Come to think of it and
it was terrible. I guess that's technically a
classic card now.
Anything from 88 is classic. Yeah. Yeah. When
I love mustang too. That's are cool. Jerry
brings in some classic wisdom and years of
experience as we've just heard, lots of folks
know him, of course, from the left behind
series,
But there is so much more jerry to
your backstory, and folks who want to get
into more of that can read your writing
book, writing for the soul, which by the
way, I read that, and I actually thought
that was a great book just in terms
of Christian creativity in general,
with a lot of specific advice for those
who are doing writing,
But, you started off with sports writing? Like,
can you give, like, a crash course of
your life real quick pre left behind as
we go into chapter 1. We're doing prem
mid and post left behind here,
what led you then from writing about sports
and
ministry
profile guys to making an end times thriller.
Yeah. If if we wanna go back to
the beginning, I actually talked my way into
a sports writing job when I was 14.
I used to write up games I played
at home like dice baseball things like that.
And I would write it up as if
it really happened.
And so I went to the local paper,
and I was a big kid with... And
and I looked older than I than I
was.
Which was an advantage at 14, not so
much now. I said to the sports editor.
How are you fixed for sports rack? Person
and he said, why? And I said because
I am 1, so he wanted to know,
you know, what experience I had, and I
told him it was just pretend at home,
but he said, Let me have you try
a few. You know, you can be a
string. You can cover high school games.
And he didn't realize that My mother was
waiting for me in the parking and lot
had to drive me to the games and
back them newspaper office.
But I really got a crash course in
in how to write because he would edit
me in, and whatever survived his red pen
he would pay a dollar per inch that
landed in the paper. So, you know, at
14, you're making 10 or 20 bucks every
few days doing that. I thought I was
really... I was a professional writer at 14.
But about age 16, I remember being at
a Christian camp,
and hearing a speaker talk about
some people are called to full time Christian
work. And he said, we're... You know, any
any Christian should be full time Christians, but
some people are actually
actually make their living and, you know, serve
god that way. And I really felt convicted
by that and felt like I should should
go forward and commit myself to
to following this call to full time person
work. And I remember telling the speakers wife
who was the counselor for that night. I
said, I guess I'll have to give up
the sports writing, because now I... You know
I was old moved to drive and so
I was, you know, all over the place
doing sports writing. And I'll have to study
to be a pastor or missionary, and she
said don't be too quick to give up
the writing because God often equip us.
Before he calls us.
And if he's equipped you with this gift,
that may be the vehicle you used to
to fulfill that call. Obviously, that's what happened,
and I don't think I would have been
a good pastor or missionary,
but writing was sort of my thing.
And it really changed my whole view too
of what success is because most writers I
know to them success as a best seller,
a bigger royalty check,
review,
letters from fans, while I've had all that
and more in my career,
but it's never been the goal. And people
say when were you called to writing. I'm
not sure I was ever called to writing.
I was called to full time Christian service.
And so
I succeed when I obey and
obedience to me means finishing the manuscript.
What happens to it after that
whether it becomes a best seller or or
gets good reviews or bad reviews. That's up
to God into the marketplace.
It takes all the pressure off me.
I'm thrilled with the results, but I'm not
sitting there trying to write a best salary.
I'm just trying to ab obey the call.
I love that, Jerry. First of all, I
loved it. You approached Christian vocation as
something a little bit outside the box. So
in my day job, I'm I'm in vocational
ministry, but That's, you know, such a small
percentage of the body of Christ that we
have to have a bigger view that to
serve the lord, full time means being, you
know, working for a non nonprofit. There's so
many different ways.
Now we actually explored this about a hundred
episodes ago and episode 109
if how should local churches support Christian made
Fantasy and we proposed this idea of, like,
what if there was a story pastor at
a church, but It might not actually work
as well inside the church, it might be
outside the church. And, you know, in your
case, you're selling your books in the marketplace.
It's not just you're making books for a
church or as a staff writer for a
a profit or, You know, you really put
yourself out there in in the world. To
make these books. So I I just love
that that you were called to Christian work
as a writer as a fiction writer as
an artist.
And you did that for hire essentially, like,
you you weren't just being paid to do
that. And so you took a lot of
risk, and I love that because
I think we're we're in an era now
that's very risk ave ave.
And,
and people want very safe options for serving
the Lord or for doing things. And I
think we have to kinda do big things.
But as you said, trust the results to
God and just focus on what we're responsible
to do.
Right. And it's interesting talking about being a
fiction writer, when I first started, I'd say
my first 18 or 19 books were non
fiction.
I wrote about
evangelist. I wrote about Christian Education. I wrote
about Marriage and family. I wrote people books,
and a lot of my books were sports
books.
Because I still had a a finger in
in that world,
and I wrote, you know, about superstar athletes
who are hall of fame, you know, names
you'd recognize recognized. But at some 0.1 of
my former bosses. And and when I followed
that call by the way,
I was 21, I just got married, I
was still a sports writer, And I thought,
I've got to answer that call from my
from age 16.
So I looked for work in Christian journalism
and became a Sunday school papers editor for
prescription press.
But 1 of my former bosses there
got asked to write a book about Hank
Aaron and his faith. Well Aaron was a
a devout catholic.
My boss was a, a part time pastor,
and so they wanted him to write this
faith part of the book. But he asked
me he said, would you help me write
this? He said, because
I don't know that much about football. And
I said,
if you think Hank aaron as a football
player, you don't know much about football or
baseball.
And, you know, having been a sports rider,
I was just nearly overcome when I got
to meet Hand, Aaron and interview him with
my boss. And the boss handled the spiritual
questions and I handled the baseball questions, which
is when Hank really came alive. He loved
talking about that step. But that same boss
later,
was assigned to edit a group of fiction
books
for a publisher,
and he needed 1 more title and he
said if you ever considered fiction.
I'd written a few short stories, and I
thought I I didn't know if I would
have be a novel, but I'll try it.
So I took 1 of those short stories
and
extrapolate it made it longer.
And it really did well. It was really
surprising.
It was called Margo,
and it was just a sort of a
love story, but it was about a a
girl and a... And it was narrated by
her boyfriend who became her husband,
they became sort of private detectives and that
type of thing.
And it did about a hundred thousand copies
when with this this publisher
and became a 13 book series, and that
really got me started. So
Now I'm working on my 200 and tenth
of book, I think, and 2 thirds of
those now have been fiction.
Mostly because of the visibility of the left
behind series and success of that.
But left behind was was my hundred and
20 fifth title.
Now some people like to say we'll let,
that's the opposite of an overnight success. I
had a lot of successful books in those
first hundred and 25. In fact,
1 of them I think it was my
70 fifth oral Hers book about the pitcher.
That was my first New York times best
seller
And I had also assisted Billy Graham with
his memoirs, which is a huge, you know,
success. So I I had a great career
and was doing well.
But nothing like left behind when that finally
get at the at that stage. Jerry, there's
a word that you've used to to describe
your career, and that's that's the word I
really like which is journey man. You've said
I'm a journey man writer,
which I really like because it means that
you are stretching those creative muscles in all
these different genres, not just fiction and non
fiction, but so many different genres in between,
which is something that I think Christian fans
of fantastical stories may want to be aware.
It's not just that a creator plugs into
1 type of book and then stays there
the rest of your life.
With your devotion to your craft. Like, you've
managed to do so many different kinds of
genres. And, yeah, I was surprised when I
found out that left behind which released in
the late 19 95
was your 120
fifth book.
I'm curious about the backstory of that book.
I mean, I'm I'm aware of, the,
the agent who approach you about that,
working with doctor Tim La, the late to
doctor Him Tim La, who who's now with
now with Jesus. But do you remember when
that was, like, what year and what happened
when you first heard that original pitch of,
hey. We don't want you to write, you
know, with Billy Graham now or Hank Aaron
or anybody like that.
What what do you think about writing an
end times thriller? Like, when was that and
what was your response?
That was in the early nineties. The sort
of of partly a parker story I tell
is that my agent.
Asked if I was aware of doctor Lane
Of course I was. In fact, 1 of
the magazines I published had a column from
him but I'd never met him. And my
agent said, well, he's a non fiction best
selling author, who has a great fiction idea
and you're a novice with no ideas. So
get you guys together.
It turned out that doctor L was almost
the exact same as my parents. So there
was a father son sort of dynamic there.
And I did love his idea.
I had been telling rapture stories since I
was a teenager. In fact, that same camp
where I went forward to answer the call
to full time work. I had a a
group of of young kids of when I
was counseling.
And, for devotion, I would say, imagine if
the rapture happened,
today,
and people are on the on the freeway
and they had disappear out of their cars
and the cars crash and that type of
thing. So I was raising the same traditions
as doctor La hey, we were both raised
in Michigan ironically. Our mothers led us to
to faith in in Christ. So we had
a lot in common. He was a senator
of a pole guy. He, you know, you
knew where he stood. I'm I'm more of
a diplomat, but, I always really appreciated him,
and and we got a along great. I
love the idea. And it it came right
around the time. I remember when we we
signed the contract with Tin dale, and we
talked about the division of labor, he did
not want our write 1 word in that
series because he was not a fiction writer.
He... He just wanted to serve as a
sort of theologian and scholar and keep me
on track that way.
And so it worked great. We didn't sc
over, you know, how to write or that
type of thing. He was great cheerleader. He
would say send me more. I wanna see
what happens myself. But just before I was
to write that book, the first book was
just gonna be 1 book, a big book
about the rapture and the
tribulation. I asked him
what audience are we trying to reach? Are
we trying to reach the people who agree
with us and we would just be encouraged
by this and in their faith? Or are
we trying to to educate the uni.
And he said both,
and I remembered saying to him, you know,
a double minded book is on unstable in
all its ways. Yeah. I mean,
you really need to pick an audience.
And right around that time, I got a
call from Lab billy Graham
association, and they started
looking for somebody to assist mister graham with
his memoirs.
And they chose me. And so I remember
talking to doctor. Hey, to Tin dale saying,
I'm gonna need to put off this writing
for a year if I'm gonna take this
grand assignment
And I think if Tin dale or doctor
Le
had realized what left behind was to become,
they would not have allowed this delay. But
they said, oh, you have to take that.
That's that's the privilege of lifetime and it
was.
So it's about 13 months working with doctor
Graham.
And, during that time, I kept asking Tim
hey. Have you settled on the audience, and
he would not budge. He said I really
wanna reach both.
So that became the challenge to to sit
in the at the keyboard, where my finally
did start.
And after having that year plus with with
you know, 1 of the greatest evangelist in
history
that informed the writing,
but how do you reach both markets?
And really, I think the secret came and
having the rapture occur in the first chapter
of that first book.
Because then all the evangelical with all their
Cliches and Lingo were gone.
And the people who are left, there were
still some people who knew what had happened
because they'd missed it. They heard the story
and they rejected it.
Now they're left behind.
And so they're trying to tell the rest
of the world who had... Was not initiated.
What happened
I had this idea that the skeptics need
to be credible
because that's where the leadership is gonna be.
And when they say how can you blame
this on God, it why would god do
this and create this chaos.
And then I didn't wanna have all the
the skeptics
miraculously become believers and grow up to be
missionaries and have kids that did the same.
And so I think that was the secret
to reaching both markets is that,
the people who were with us anyway were
intrigued to see how it would play out.
But the people who were new to this
were like, yeah. I identify with the people
who who are doubting this and wondering about
this
and seeing that they were credible plus
many of them remain skeptics, which in real
life is true. Not everybody we share our
faith with comes to faith. In fact most
of them don't.
And so that was kind of the secret
there. I love how you turned the rapture
into a mystery. Almost like a murder mystery.
The the way you put it, it happens
right away. It kind of happens off screen
in the sense.
And that no 1 really sees it happen.
I mean, they see the people disappear, but
they don't know how they're disappearing. And it
just occurred to me that right around that
same time you were writing that,
is when the Stephen King movie, the Lang
came to Tv.
I saw it on television. It was around
mid nineties.
I didn't see it because I was a
Christian.
I wanted to go to heaven. Yeah.
Exactly.
And, but there was a similar
type of device in that movie is that
these people wake up on a plane and
a lot of people are missing.
And so they're trying to figure out where
did everyone go and then they the plain
lands and, like, there's no 1 at the
airport. And then all of a sudden, there
these weird creatures that come out of nowhere
and start, you know, eating people
It's it's basically like a time travel time
slip type story.
But I think your your book was perfectly
timed to come out right around that time
period where And and it's just interesting to
think this is pre 09:11. Right? In the
nineties, we weren't really as nervous about airplane
travel as we were
in the the early 2 thousands, although
sure that helped. When the book started selling,
you know, nowadays, everyone's worried about
the airplane door coming off or the wheels
coming off, but not people disappearing necessarily. Right.
Right. Were were you familiar with that that
Stephen King's story. I know you've talked and
other talks about getting to know Stephen King.
Had you read, I think is called 4
past midnight?
Was the book other that inspired that movie?
Yeah. I had not become a a king
fan yet. I I became a fan of
of Stephen King
with the green mile
and misery, and was like that. And then
it was interesting that we were sort of
writing on the same theme.
Yeah. At different points. And I think what
what happened in mid nineties even though we
had... We did not have this in mind
at all.
It was close enough to the turn the
century
that people started looking forward to that that
millennium change, the White.
Yeah. It wasn't just the end of the
century at the end of the millennium.
And for some reason, people associated that with
the end of the world. We didn't we
didn't think that had anything to do with
it, but it became sort of fever pitch
and and by then, the left behind sears
is about 5 years old,
and there was a huge
increase in bump in sales even then because
of that.
And, you know, I'm I'm not sure why
that... Why people thought that,
but
it it certainly helped marketing.
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that cover image by the way, it's been
revealed
or pre order directly from the publisher at
faye at press dot com to get a
signed copy and some super sweet swag to
learn more see that cover, go to em
hawk dot com or the show notes for
this episode 221.
Well, from there, let's move chapter 2 mid
left behind series.
Jerry Jenkins now in our time a recapture
here has gone from times thriller.
To wrap a sales. Now, first, Jerry, I
want to be a bit of a fan
boy here and share that I picked up
my first copy of left behind after it
had already gone to paper back, and I
believe it was summer 19 97,
At a bible theme park in Eureka Springs
Arkansas, and at about that same time, doctor
David Jeremiah,
on the radio was going through a end
times series, and he also shares the pre
tribulation view of the rapture, the End times
antichrist you know, long and glorious tradition of
a, a Christian
trying to map out the timeline there. And
so I was
really interested in this topic and remain so
to this day. And then lo and behold
wow. There's a novel about this. And then
I pick up the back cover
and it says, you know, in in 1
flash of a moment or something like that,
people across the world disappear, those left behind
must reckon with and so on and so
forth.
And I will believe at the time I
was a... Yeah. I was definitely a teenager
in 19 97.
And my parents sought thought about it. And
they'll, oh, well, Tim La, you know, he's
solid. So, yeah, Go ahead. I got the
book and, of course, instant fan and then
realized even in these very early dial up
Internet day Oh, wow,
there's already a sequel. And then I think
it was that November or that fall season
that the nikola eye.
Also released. So I had 2 paper backs
and 1 hard back and the inconsistency on
my books office haunted me to this day.
I have all 12 volumes,
plus the 3 pre equals. Y'all all also
eventually wrote a a book that was set
during the millennial kingdom.
At so 16 books at all in the
grown up series, and then they also came
match and said, hey, why don't you do
we would call it now a Y
version of left behind. So you got the
kids left behind.
4 smaller books,
1 for each of the 12 books made
48 books in all, then eventually y'all got
Chris Fa on board to help out with
that.
That is an incredible phenomenon. Even before those
books start hitting the New York Times best
seller list, which I think happened with a
Poly in 19 98.
What's it like then
riding
this this phenomenon?
And and by the way,
fulfilling the late doctor Leah hope and insistence
on reaching both audiences, which breaks the rule
by the way. Like, you're right, and you
actually say writing for the soul. Like, hey,
this is the exception that proves the rule
you guys. You know, we we we caught
lightning in a bottle, but don't try this
at home. But what's it like
discovering this kind of
boost to your career in a genre that
I'm sure you never fore saw
yourself riding when you're starting off with a
sports journalism.
Yeah. It was bizarre, and
you know, having been our writer for so
long at that point. You know, I I
was an old veteran of the business, then
Mean I was only in my mid forties
at that time.
But as I say, a hundred and 25
books.
So
Ty sent me a framed
presentation of the first 3 covers
because the first 3 titles had totaled a
million in sales after, you know,
I think soon after the third 1 came
out. And I can remember
feeling pretty good about myself when I got
that. I remember thinking, hey, I've kinda of
pulled something off here. Look at that, how
many people Have written any book that's sold,
you know, in in the hundreds thousands let
alone,
3 that combined for a million and I
thought. Yeah. I think I've finally arrived, you
know, Then the publisher at Ty called me,
and he said,
have you checked
Amazon
on book 4. I said, well, it hasn't
been released yet. Right? Because, yeah, we're gonna
release it in 2 weeks.
He said I think he should check. And
so I checked Amazon
and it was number 1 on Amazon. And,
you know, they published
millions of books.
This is just pre sales.
It had a really strange effect on me.
It it had the opposite effect of that
presentation they sent to me. It just laid
me. It was, like,
I was getting kicked in the rear, and
it was like. Wow. Don't ever again take
credit for this. This is way beyond you.
This is a god thing.
Just hang on for dear life. And
and it really it really did humble me.
I mean, it just was, like,
never again, when I go, well, I've done
something here.
Clearly, God was doing something there. And and
it became such an avalanche
of
of income of means
of sales of
letters and and
emails and all that type of thing. I
had made a commitment early in my career
that I would answer every
every piece of mail
that that came to me personally.
And I maintained that?
That's been
tens of thousands of responses to to emails
and letters or or the years. Admittedly, I'll
use some boiler plate paragraphs or something, but
I I make it personal to use a
person's name and thank them and that type
of thing, but
that became a commitment that
I might not have made it if I
don't know how many of these are gonna
sell. I don't get it. And now you've
made that commitment to every faithful listener of
this podcast.
Now. Here we go. But
the irony is that, you know, here we
are... It'll be 29 years in August since
that first title came out.
That series is still selling
around between 10 and 15000 units a month
to this day.
Still get letters from people still get emails
from people.
It it just blows me away. You know,
it's not only once in a lifetime thing.
It's a once in a lifetime thing. For
very, very few people. Mh. I just feel
blessed. Yep. So Jerry, the way I discovered
this, series is kind of interesting,
and how I got into it. So first,
I discovered it through the Kirk Cameron movie
in 19 99.
Someone gave me the V dhs tape. I
I don't even remember who or why.
And I had this little
13 inch Tv Vc thing,
in my mom's house, and I came home
for the summer from college.
Popped it in. And I'm like, what's this?
I'd I'd never watched a Christian movie before.
I was only a couple years old in
the faith. I I came to faith after
the lang, so, you know,
But
then throughout college, I had a lot of
friends that were reading the series. I I
went through a period though where I just
didn't read any fiction.
And when I was in college and part
of that was just time, but part of
it was
I I grew up reading tons of fantasy
and I'm like, you know, I think I
just need to read some theology and kinda
grow in my faith.
But then right after college, I went overseas
as a missionary to to East Asia.
And at the time the big device was
the palm pilot.
And so I had a palm pilot,
and there was a ebook store, like, a
very primitive Ebook store that I was able
to connect to, you know, over the Internet
from a whole other continent.
I got a ahold of the left behind
books because I'm like, alright. I've been hearing
about these and I just... I need some
fiction now.
And man, I just devoured them in a
few months or something.
And so I had all those little ebook
files on that Palm pilot.
Fast forward a few years, whatever... That name
of that ebook store was got bought out
by Barnes Noble,
and not all of the titles transferred over.
So I I lost all of them or
I They still hired from.
There you go.
They
specifically it was like the licensing code or
whatever that I can't unlock them.
So finally, over the last couple years, I
started collecting all of the hard back that
I was finding it, use bookstores or the
library.
They're on the shelf right behind me, it's
kinda hard to see.
Because I thought, you know, I really want
my kids to read these books.
And and they made such an impression on
me as a young believer in his a
missionary.
What I'm really curious to hear is you
you mentioned all these correspondence letters you got
Did you get any from East Asia from,
you know, believers in China, Japan, Thailand,
that that sort of area? And do you
have any favorite stories from that? I don't
have any stories necessarily from there, but I
do remember we hear we heard from people
all over the world. Obviously, the biggest market
was the United States, but then
Latin countries, but, yeah, Really, every continent we
heard from. I've got stories of, you know,
my favorite stories... They're both happen to be
from America if you wanna hear them. Good
Yeah. Happy to. Sure.
They're they're on, both ends of the
the age spectrum.
I hope I can get through these without
coming to emotional, but
they they mean so much more than
income or best seller lists or anything like
that. But 1 was from a a couple
who said their teenage son was away from
the lord and and they were hoping he
would read left behind.
So they got it from. They didn't wanna
push, so they just kinda kept leaving it
out where he could see it. They said
1 night, he came home late. He was
running with a bad crowd and and they've
been praying for him and. They noticed his
light was on under under his door of
his bedroom and that the left behind book
was gone from the the coffee table in
living.
And in the morning, he told him he'd
read the book. They left out for it
and that he was gonna come back to
his faith.
And he said, I wanna buy a box
of these books
for for these these friends of mine that
I've been running with.
Before he could do that, he was killed
in a car wreck.
Oh, my goodness. So his parents both bought
the books and gave them out to his
friends at the funeral and several of them
came to faith.
And I heard from AAA man who has...
Said was 95 years old
and that he had thought he was a
christian. He was a church gore all his
life. He said he red left behind. And
he said, my eyes are so weak at
this point that I had to read it
through a magnifying glass.
And he said, I had finally saw the
truth. And he said it wasn't because of
what I saw
through the glass. It was what I saw
through my heart. Oh,
That speaks with you.
Wow.
That's incredible.
That is amazing. I mean, I know that
even in my life, Jerry. God used the
left behind series not to get me saved,
but to enjoy him more through the
imagination, you,
a a view of prophecy now set to
fiction of which made it come alive and
the special effects and the character
interactions and the complexity
Yes, left behind Skeptics in our audience.
I said and will continue to defend complexity
in the series even though it is intended
to reach as wide audience is possible that
is by design.
Actually Jerry come to think of it the
very first item I had published in a
local newspaper.
Was a defense of the left behind series
versus some small liberal theologian
or small
liberal theologian from a small school who had
a column in that newspaper, it was the
Jess journal in Jess County, Kentucky
based in Nicholas, and this guy was not
a fan left behind series. It didn't show
Jesus very loving, and that sort of thing.
And so, you know, I guess I did
the thing where I walked in there, and
I don't remember if I knew your backstory
at the time, but, hey, I'm I'm a
writer. I'm I'm gonna
submit this column and they published it, and
I learned a I learned a lot about
it, and eventually got in a local journalism
myself for a while,
but people millions of people.
Embraced these books and enjoyed them and talked
about them. And there were 12 books in
all.
I think it was a Poly that hit
the New York Times best seller list. And
I remember because I was watching.
Soul Harvest booked 4 came out in summer
19 98. And from there, I was on
Tinder hooks waiting on each release date. There
was a fan forum at left behind dot
com, and that was, I think the first
fan forum I ever joined.
I was on there, and I remember I
about hit the roof
when a certain, Jerry Jenkins responded to my
a fake prediction of the rapture in 19
99
for the date of April the first 2000,
and,
believe you said something like, the the next
book comes out a few days before. So
if you're right, people better read fast.
Thank you for that, Jerry. I appreciate that
so many. So in years later. It was
really my first fandom, and there's probably a
lot of Christian first experience with online fandom
wasn't in the Harry Potter series, but the
left behind series, but I remember too getting
a little jealous of this boy wizard from
England who was us suddenly competing for those
top slots in the New York Times best
seller list. Like, this was my sports, Jerry.
I wanted... My team to win And then
after a while, New York Times decided, well,
these are Juvenile and they're just kinda crowding
out everybody else. So we're gonna put them
on their own list. So I thought, Yes.
Left behind sirius has a fighting chance. There
is a full cast audio drama, which is
absolutely excellent
V movies. That the Zach talked about and
everything.
And then y'all release book 12, turns out
the guys we know when Jesus came back.
It was in 2004.
And
and the cover was white, which by the
way was was a little prediction I made.
I I figured that black mat I needed
a bit of an upgrade when the lord
sets down on Earth.
And then they made y'all write pre or
y'all wanted to write pre either way, and
we got 3 pre, by the way, the
first 1.
I'll, bother. What was it called? The origin
story of nico carp.
And I remember there's a surprising amount of
darkness in how nico carp
was
conceived and ordered and, like, there was some
ready level cove in the back room type
stuff that I found wonderfully horrifying.
Seems some mythological references in there too. Amazing
amazing stuff. There were the rising the regime
and the rapture. Yep Okay. There we go.
I mean, my books... All my books are
on my shelf, but they're in the other
room. Oh, real quick too, you you can't
tell faithful listeners because this is a podcast.
But here is a treasure.
I have a first sprint copy of
des
decoration.
Book 9, which is the 1 where Carp.
W and in the temple on a pig
pig w that is. And then slaughter the
pig in order to
fulfill a, a secondary meaning of the the
Daniel prophecy
this 1 was wrong, 1 in a prize
and there's your autograph right there and autograph
of the late, doctor La as well. So
Another
fan boy treasure there. I wanted to ask
if you don't mind, Jerry, just some fun
questions about the series. Like, for example,
Do you have personally
a favorite of the 12 plus books? Is
there 1 that just as x especially special
to you? I'm not sure I do of
of the books.
I I have favorite scenes. Des accretion is
is especially close to my heart because that
sold out the first printing the day it
was released. Wow
became the best selling book in the world
that year,
fiction or on fiction.
Several of them debuted number 1 in the
new york Times, which was great. I have
to say 1 of my favorite scenes because,
I, you know, I write as a process
of Discovery. I'm a pants. So Mh. I
do what Stephen King says, you you try
to put interesting characters in difficult
situations and right to find out what happens.
As I'm seeing these things happen, people will
sometimes write to me and say, why did
you kill off in my favorite character? And
I didn't kill them off. I found them
dead. You know?
I'm sorry R. It was fate. Yeah. Exactly.
And I was sometimes as disappointed and shocked
as the readers were. You know? I... And
I remember 1 of them was when I
I killed off
a character in the first book and doctor.
Has, let's resurrect him. I liked him And
I said, I think we have enough supernatural
stuff happening in there. But
I I think 1 of my favorite scenes
was
when... And I can't remember all the characters
involved now,
but a bus was stopped at a border
and they were searching for for,
I think See and Ben judah.
Ag, Nikola nikolai, book 3. Got love that
bit. And they're looking under the seats and
everything and they they don't see. Him. Or
I think
it turns out that the guy with the
flashlight becomes an angel. That's what people are
assumed. But it was a miraculous
intervention.
A lot of people really like, I think
book 4 is when they they face the
gui a team,
and they... And these people were singing
on their way to their executions. You know,
ironically,
Robert Frost, the poet who is the 1
who has been quoted as saying, no tears
in the writer, no tears in the reader.
Believe me, I I was sobbing writing several
of his scenes and and left behind.
If the writer is emotional, the reader is
10 times more. Mh.
And, you know, you you've both mentioned a
little bit about reading fiction or non fiction
or or my reading and multiple genres.
People have often said to me. I don't
read fiction. I only wanna read the truth?
And I'm thinking that's kind of ironic. Do
you read the parable?
Parable are clearly fiction.
If a writer needs an example, you can't
do better than Jesus you
And then this idea of writing multiple genres,
that's really fallen out of favor today. It's
hard for people to do that because publishers
and agents say, you know what you're getting
with a Stephen King book. You know what
you're getting with a Jk rowling book. You
know what you're getting a john G book.
So pick your area,
stick with it that's your brand.
I wanted my brand and fortunately, I'm old
enough that they weren't so hung up on
that back in the day.
I want my brand to be. A Jerry
Jenkins book is gonna be a good read.
Whether it's fiction, non fiction, children, adults, whatever,
and it's worked for me. You know, I
have 2000 online writing students, and I have
to caution them it's an uphill battle if
you try to do what I do today
because
as I say agents and publishers are gonna
say,
We don't know where to put you. We
need to brand you. Zach. Do you have
a particular favorite left behind scene book.
I was just gonna bounce off what you
said, Jerry about scene where Cy Ben judah
is kind of disappears miraculously on that bus.
Believe it or not, I have a very
similar story from when I was a missionary.
East Asia. And now I I don't have
the omniscient point of you to to tell
you exactly what happened, but here's what I
know that happened.
And, I'm mean... I'm being very vague here
for some security reasons, but I had to
go about an hour outside of this town.
We in to go to this 1 university.
And I walked around the campus with the
student
in my very broken
language attempts tried to explain the gospel in
his language
I had a little notebook that had some,
you know, pictures on it. Basically, the...
The the typical, like, bridge analogy for spiritual
laws type gospel presentation
I try to say as much of it
in his language
rather than English.
And I have a I'm a loud Text.
I've have kind of a big booming voice.
And because we'd had walked in circles around
this campus, I got kinda turned around where
we were.
And I stood up after we were done,
and I realized, I was right next to
the guard shaq.
In this university sometimes would not let foreigners
in, and they're they were always watching us
like pretty suspicious of us.
And as soon as I walk past them,
all the guards were watching me. I'm like,
oh, no. They heard everything I said, because
I was right next to that building, and
I was speaking in their language.
I waited very anxiously to get on the
bus to go back into our town.
It took, I don't know, 20 minutes or
so. And then
a couple stops later,
the military police were stopping all vehicles.
And a guard got on with a machine
gun.
And he's walking down the aisle looking at
every every person just Eye to eye, eye
to eye, eye to eye. Well, I'm sitting
in the very back and there's, like, 5
seats in the back. I'm in the middle
seat
I'm a foot taller than everyone.
And, of course, I'm foreign. So ever... I
stand out completely.
And he walks down to the very end,
he looks to the person to the left
of me, the next to me, and then
the 2 people on the other side.
And it was like his eyes just went
right past me.
In this part of town, there were no
foreigners. So everyone that ever
saw me would stare at me. And then
he gets off the bus and then nothing
happens, and
I get all the way home, and I
think,
okay. Maybe they were looking for someone else.
But that guy did not
acknowledge me or even notice me and that
never happens.
So
Did I just become invisible? I kind of
like in that story?
And it was so weird to have that
happen while I was reading these books in
What it really showed me was that even
though those were fictional stories
that we believe in a god who can
do the miraculous in the supernatural and he
can protect
his saints, his missionaries and his people
from persecution even in crazy circumstances,
And so
I wanted to share that with you just
to encourage you how much that that story
meant to me at the time. And I
wanted to ask you, like, you know, as
you said, there's 10 to 15000 new readers,
every month of the series.
What do you think this these books have
to say
do Christians today that might be facing
persecution, whether it's here in our country or
in or in other countries.
You know, that's the thing. A lot of
people look at America the stories like that
and and think they're relegated to biblical times.
And you know, the very first book I
ever wrote.
I was 23
and the subject of the book was 25.
It was called Sammy Tip God's love in
action.
Now we're, you know, 50 years later, I
still serve on his board. He's still my
spiritual hero.
But he preach it all over the world.
Mostly now does it from his home in
San Antonio just through, you know, the Internet,
but
He was going into countries behind Aaron and
curtain.
He got kicked out of 1 1 time.
The next time he tried to go in
there. He took 2 friends,
and he said they don't... He said if
God wants us in there, we'll get in.
That's all there is to it. If he
doesn't, then that's that's up to him.
But he said we're gonna at least be
smart and we're... We separate so they... He
he sent 1 guy in in line, you
know, maybe 10 people ahead of him, and
then 1 guy behind him, about 10:10
people behind.
And the first 1,
gets turned away.
And as he's coming back through the line
to be, you know, deported basically.
He whispered to Sammy.
They said you were here last time with
Sammy Tip, so you're out.
So Sammy goes through the line. You know,
it's up there puts his passport down. It's
picture. Sammy deal with his name.
Stamp stamp goes through. Wow.
And the next... When when they're friend, you
know, the the the last guy goes through,
he gets kicked out because he was with
sammy tip last.
Wow. What is that the sammy tip you're
looking for?
What is that? You know, maybe they spill
tip backwards. It's it's spelled to sand back
and forward. So that's amazing. But it's still
evidence of God. That's incredible. And, you know,
these these books now are are sort of
period pieces.
Several years ago I had 1 of my
sons go through
and and update the technology. I had, you
know,
I had tape
instead of, you know,
like.
And and so they they look funny. Well,
now, even the stuff he changed is ancient.
We thought well, you can't keep up with
us. So just you know, these were written
back then and this was supposed to what
what the future look like, like going to
Ep mca center and seeing the the
city of the future, which they built in
19 60.
And it's not too close to what we're
we have now, but it's a it's an
interesting period piece, but the truth is still
there.
People, you know, dying for their faith.
And and and looking forward to to what's
to come. I think they still hold up.
I mean, I still hear from people who
say they've they've come back to their faith
where they've come to faith through reading and
it's it's really special. Oh, absolutely. And I
know for me personally, they definitely still hold
up, and, Jerry, 1 of the plot arcs
that is stuck with me to this day,
really starts with Ra at the end of
a book 4, soul harvest, and then concludes,
I would say in a book 7
the ind dwelling, and it is his turn
toward the dark side, and it took 4
books to do it, where Ray
decides logically,
but also based on,
severe, post traumatic stress, it ain't easy guys
living through the tribulation.
Ray decides you know, if prophecy says that
antichrist, this world dictator, his
nico nikolai or path and your universe.
If a prophecy says that he's going to
somehow die or fake die or something we're
not sure then Ray says to himself why
can't I be the 1 to make that
happen? And so he rationalize. His turned toward
the dark side this whole time. He is
turning more towards vengeance,
rather than letting things play out,
rather than understanding that Vengeance is the Lords
and that Raf doesn't need to be letting
his heart go in that direction. And so
not to spoil things, but you kinda get
this whole
huge cliff angle at the end of book
6, which of course drove readers nuts, which
was fantastic.
And then we took our sweet time in
the book 7 to get to the resolution
to the mystery there, But really, I think
what is what is aged even better.
In that plot is Rae repentance. I will
go ahead and spoil that. He decides that,
I mean, he's a man on the run.
Then suddenly, all those vengeful
rationalization and is turned toward the dark side
and his very spiritual arguments for himself do
not work, and he is exposed as a
sinner and must.
Experience,
restoration
from elders in a local church it is
such a wonderful picture, not just evan or
faithfulness under persecution, but of the role of
the local church in d decipher the way
believer.
And that picture. It's not like you were
going did and teaching about church governance or
elders or dea or what they're supposed to
do, but that picture is stuck in my
head to this day.
Along with the many other quan
that believers in the left behind verse
had to face. So personally, I just want
to thank you for that, and is... Again,
it's just another a testament to the power
of biblical truth applied to fantastical
imagination.
Yeah. And, you know, people sort of rebel
against that too in the chosen, my my
son's Tv series,
Mary Mag
obviously, this is invented fiction. It's plausible, but,
has a backs experience. And a lot of
people want... That would never happen. She got
saved and and Jesus,
you know,
deliver her from demons and so she should
live a perfect light from now on. That's
not how life is.
Most people look at that and say, that's
me.
I fail. I keep thinking I've I've I
finally got this thing now, but I'm still
fighting the old man, the old nature. And
I think it's it's the bad news like
that that makes the good news look even
better. Well, we're pulling for Dallas if there's
ever any chance to do
a left behind streaming drama,
similar to the chosen we are pulling for
that, for sure. As soon as they set
up a fundraiser or whatever. I'm am all
over that, just as much as I'm all
over the chosen right now. As you mentioned,
Jerry, may need a few updates, which I
think it'd be kind of fun to brainstorm
before we move into chapter 3. As I'm
looking at left behind now, I'm thinking well
clearly social media, at least in this time
period has kinda replaced the message board, unfortunately.
I'd say the politics
general in our country are way worse. But
almost certainly, doctor Si Ben ventura would have
an underground podcast.
And he'd be hosting on
the black market servers so that he was
as un
as possible.
Although next to Alex Jones maybe, you know,
that almost 2 much more biblical grounded.
Yes. I was gonna say you're gonna be
happy to hear that there is a gigantic
streaming service,
very interested.
And the left behind series with Dallas directing.
Oh, fantastic. Let's do it. I'm telling you.
It's... It'd be the dream of a lifetime
for me. Let us do it. And with
all due respect to the previous movie adaptations,
let's actually see those video clips with a
slow motion replay when people vanish out of
their clothes. We all wanna see the cars
korean out of control, of course, but there's
all kinds of special effects possibilities there, and
I I'd like to keep going at least
until we get to the demon lo. Which
by the way is probably 1 of my
top 3 plagues during the tribulation. If you
can pick a favorite, that 1 I think
other than the asteroids, you know, deep impact
style. It'll... Those those are the coolest.
You have a favorite play. You you really
need to get out more. You know that?
Reprogram you You know, I go back to
being pre tribulation, and then it... I have
the luxury of having a favorite play. Pretty?
Those
poor tribulation saints, You know, they they got
a reckon with you know, the sun turning
up the heat, and then going dark with
the next plague, and then an Angel blows
at Trumpet, and then suddenly the earth splits
in half, that's not an actual plague. But
Yeah... There was a while there, Jerry. I
was just looking forward to the next plague.
I I guess I'm just a... A there's
a Doom day movie fan in my head
and because I was home school they didn't
see a lot of Doom day movies. So
you could get them in the left.
You could get them in the audio drama.
There's also be by the way, a lot
more sexual revolution in the global community.
It is astonishing me to see how much
further society has slid in that particular direction.
Yeah, it would seem to shock even some
global community storm troopers.
It's a rather incredible to see. A lot
of people say that the the books themselves
were prophetic because so much, you know, is
has come true that we're
predicting,
but we never saw this gender thing coming.
I mean no. No 1 would have to
be
done differently today. Yep. Yeah. I think it
would take over the series though if you
try it now. And so would the mind
by the way, the nor was gonna say
that the the 6
mind chip. Yeah. Not just the Neural link
type stuff, but the the control of the
financial system
alongside Big tech using all kinds of levers
to deep bank people, you know, all kinds
of ways that you can be canceled and
and not be able to use money. And
so I I think we definitely see some
type of, you know, when when Chloe starts
the the kind of the underground
cooperative thing. We'd probably see some cryptocurrency thing
happening,
you know, some alternative
payment system because there's already types of that
now
but they haven't really taken hold. And so
you look at those events today you're like,
boy, you're we're really being set up for
this to happen. I mean, it just... It
seems so
It seems so much more plausible now than
eve and eva was even plausible back then,
but we we definitely have the technology now
for that unfortunately to happen.
Now a lot of people thought that some
of the prophecies and remember when we were
writing about them, I was thinking,
we have to have the the 2 witnesses
be killed and then resurrected, and then and
and this the prophecy says the entire world
sees this.
And so we are thought that was symbolic.
And then right around time we're writing it,
satellite Tv and and you know, the Internet
and all this stuff is coming in. We
realized that's what would happen. Nowadays, something happens
anywhere. Everybody sees it at the same time.
It'd be on Youtube. Yep.
Jerry Jenkins had 1 path toward becoming a
hugely successful author, maybe some of you all
have different paths. Which almost certainly include attending
a writer's conference like the Realm Conference that
is starting up as we release this episode
Just a few days from now coming July
eighteenth through twentieth in person and live streaming
from the She West Chilean hotel in Saint.
Louis where we've been off on over the
last several years. Lori haven also has a
booth there. So if you're in the area,
stop by and see us,
especially at Saturday night at 07:30PM
when we have the open bookstore event at.
But throughout the conference either way, we'll be
talking to you at the booth,
and we have some upgrades because the booth
just got ga fight. We're going to assign
you if you like
challenging quests at 3 difficulty levels to earn
fantastical x xp as well as prizes. You
can start with the debut quest which are
simpler.
You can move up to the fetch quests
like visiting other booths and collecting hidden tokens
and taking photos and helping us to share
news about the podcast in Laura Haven, that's
for more experienced players, or if you're really
ambitious, that you can participate in a boss
battle. And at the end we're kinda have
some amazing prizes like book satchel as well
as hand crafted,
fantastical mugs. I can't wait to show these
often as see the faces of the winners,
stop by our Lord haven Guild booth there
at the Realm conference in Saint. Louis and
to learn more about what we have planned.
You can go to our show notes for
episode 221
or visit lori haven dot com slash podcast.
And now for those you faithful listeners who
are posed
tribulation or post something rather. This chapter is
for you post left behind series.
We've seen the record run of this
evangelical publishing phenomenon. And now we move as
we draw to close to this blockbuster legacy
of the series.
I would say just first real quick, that
this was
and to some extent remains.
The evangelical
cinematic universe or or publishing universe. So before
there was an Mcu in this big franchise
like, this was the Christian equivalent or the
evangelical
Christian equivalent because Christian fiction had a big
moment,
back in the the mid nineties through the
mid 2 thousands with the left behind series.
End times thriller
got big, and there was a lot of
different,
copies of the genre, different
adaptations of that, but the left behind series
to the day remains unparalleled.
I was just stopping by the Amazon list
of the books labeled Christian Sci f. Most
of those too are time thriller and they're
almost always exploring the rapture concept somewhere way
or another.
I would say too that the left behind
series sort of incidentally,
set the stage for secular dystopian novels.
The secular, especially why dystopian novels. I mean,
I don't know if someone take a look
a look high in and thought. I think
I'll do that except with less Jesus, you
know,
but you got the hunger games and some
of these other trends that followed
after the left behind series, and then wildly
enough, you even saw some secular
priceless re retailing of the rapture concept.
The leftovers. That's at least 1 example I
think of I've never saw it because I'm
Christian.
But there was
so much awareness. Of the rapture. You know,
if you're a post or a post a
millennial or a millennial, then that is to
your Cha,
by the way, I I personally can't lay
claim to any of those. I'm not trying
to stand back and criticize them all. I
just haven't quite figured out where I am.
And I guess in back of my head,
I'm still a left behind series pre tribulation
guy.
But Jerry, if this were a bio film
of your life as the Hank Aaron of
Christian Journey men writers.
This would appear at the end of the
movie.
Jerry Jenkins went on to buy the Christian
riders guild to train Christian creators.
He wrote many other books,
including
adaptations with his son Dallas of biblical fiction
with the chosen,
1 of his favorite novels remains r from
2009.
And by the way, Jerry could have retired
a long time ago. We had we had
this controversy, at least in some cultural conservative
circles over whether or not people should retire,
you have not retired.
You could have, but you keep a going.
What in the world keeps you going? Will
you ever retire
And and what is it that you love
so much about writing and just going even
after, you could have packed it in after
left behind book 16?
I don't see retirement in the bible. I
asked my wife if I should consider,
retiring. And she said from what?
She also says she's gonna put on my
tombstone never an unpublished thought.
The the real reason that I keep doing
it, maybe if I worked in a factory,
and I was doing the same thing with
my hands every day for 40 years,
I would really dream of
stopping doing that when I got
got to a certain age. That's not been
the case with me. I'm doing what I
love, so it doesn't feel like work although,
I don't love writing. People often say, When
did you know you loved writing, and I
say,
ask a marathon learner of that at the
20 mile mark. Don't you just love her
running? You might get a response and a
gesture that you didn't expect it?
The fact is writing done well is grueling.
So what I love about it, I love
being a writer. I love being known as
a writer,
I love having written.
I love all the the things that have
come from it,
and the fact that it's helped me follow
my true call, which a full time christian
work. Well, that call doesn't end.
Do do I... At some point, say, I'm
done writing and and I do write at
a different pace these days. I want each
book to be better than the last, and
the more you write the harder that becomes.
So I'm writing slower, and where I'm choo
about what I take. I'm thrilled to be
writing books that go along with my son's,
you know, Tv show. But I'm... I can't
retire from the call to full time person
work. That that's gonna last till... Hopefully the
day I die.
Jerry, 1 of the books you've written in
recent years was dead sea rising and my
wife Naomi really enjoyed that book. Then Covid
happened, and I think every a lot of
things
got shuffled around, but then the second book
Dead sea conspiracy looks like that came out
2 years ago. Is there going to be
more in that series or was that a?
What's what what can you tell us about
the plans for that book. It actually was
only gonna be 1.
And and then the for the first 1
did well enough to to warrant a second
1. So the whole question, I guess is
is
how well the second 1 did. Would... Are
they calling for a third because the character
is young enough, and I can embed other,
you know,
scenarios for her. I'd love to do and
it'd be kinda fun. I... There's nothing in
that works at this point. But Okay. I
have a lot of fun with those books.
Well, and as Steven mentioned there's... You know,
there's all these other dystopian, it... It's like
you said a priceless left behind where people
disappear and now there's really no reason for
it.
There's a Tv show about 15 or so
years ago, 20 years ago. I I really
like called the 4400,
which
know, it's it's like you remove the 1
and the 0 from the end of a
hundred and 44000.
And it's about 4400 people that had disappeared
at different points in the past, and now
they've returned and they all have superpower.
And so that was kind of an interesting
spin on that.
And it... You know, it seems like every
few years, this this kicks around this idea
that, what, what if people disappeared or came
back and There's the end of the world,
and it it just seems like there's something
in...
I don't know if it's American culture or
just human culture
that we're so interested in end times
type stories.
So my question for you is, you know,
Yeah. Maybe Steven, I do need to get
out. We have our favorite plagues, but do
you have any other favorite
times dystopian type stories, whether books or movies
or that sort of thing.
Actually, I don't. I feel like, you know,
16 books with, you know, I don't know
how many million words
I've kinda said what I want what I
wanna to said. You're done. It's times. Well,
I loved what it's what it's done in
the and the conversations it's created and what
it's done, you know, for people's faith. But
on my plate are the the next
chosen novels up through season 7. And then
I'd like to do a bigger, you know,
writing for the soul. I I wouldn't call
it that, but it'd be a sort of
combination memoir writing book with all the teaching
I've done over the last 10 years online.
I I used to I don't wanna sound
falsely modest, but I don't think people want
necessarily my memoir
They're they're they're less interested in me than
in the the famous people I've met, But
that's part of my story so I can
tell those stories too, but That's that's what
I foresee for my future. Yeah. I want
to read that book, Jerry. I very much
look forward to that. And I also look
forward by the way. To finding out what
the end times actually look like. And how
much of the left behind series is going
to be re adapted in reality if that
But finally, Jerry, before, we let you go,
well, we need to have people go to
jerry jenkins dot com, the Christian riders guild,
like, any any links you wanna throw out
and then I have a closing question for
you. Yeah. It's not just called the Jerry
jenkins writers guild, and and it is at
jerry jenkins dot com, and we have everything
from
free blogs and tips and all that up
to courses that are some modestly priced and
some expensive. But something there for everybody, I
can love to help people who want who
wanna be writers.
And then I think left behind dot com
is still active as well, but w, no
more message board.
Jerry, as a daughter close, yeah, what do
you look forward to most? Not just in
heaven because we're either gonna get rapture as
believers at the prem mid or post tribulation,
or we're just going to get to have
in the old fashioned way death. What do
you look forward to then in heaven?
And then even the new heavens and new
earth after that, do you think you'll keep
on writing or what do you look forward
to the most? Yeah. I've never thought about
that, whether I'd was I'd still be writing.
I can't imagine they're being need for
my words, the the word will have come
to life for everybody.
Yeah. I I have so many questions that
I love to have answered. That's why that's
why eternity is that long for the questions
we have, you know?
The Gospel is a mystery.
And and I wanna know the why and
where for and and
and plus the the same question everybody asks,
I've I've come to a place of peace
with it.
No matter what bad happens to me in
my life ever.
I know I'm not getting what I really
deserve,
and and I'm grateful for that.
But I have those questions. You know, what
why do
such... I mean, people that I know that
are absolutely sold out for Christ, sometimes suffer
more than anybody.
They lose loved ones. They they face, you
know, cancer themselves? They, you know, what is
behind that? Why doesn't God some some intervene
when we think he should?
Just the idea of of,
eternal rest
and in the presence of God, you, who
who could ask for more than that?
Amen. Jerry, thank you so much. Thank you
for your life. Your work. Testimony,
fictional worlds, plagues,
all that good stuff about the bad stuff.
I want to wish you gods speed to
you and yours and a fantastic rest of
your career, and I look forward to talking
to you some other time. Well, thanks so
much, Stephen Zach for having me honest. It's
been been fun. Appreciate so much. And thanks
for how you minister to all of us
through your.
Well, to you are listener, you heard Jerry
kinda teased Steven there a little bit that
he had a favorite plague.
I own it.
And maybe you have a favorite play. We
would love to know that we'd love for
you to send us a note to podcast
at lower haven dot com.
Or tell us about your favorite characters or
favorite moments for the series.
And most importantly, we would love to know
how are you preparing
For the return of Jesus,
perhaps at any moment
in a the twin M and I, rapture,
perhaps
in some other form,
pre post mid trip, a millennial whatever.
How are you preparing for that to happen
in your es
view. So send us a note to podcast
at lower haven dot com or find us
on Facebook,
Instagram and Twitter,
Now we wanna turn to Some notes that
we got previously. So after our episode 218
with Chris Fab,
the author of the left behind kids series
or coa author.
We got this note from 1 of the
heroes in our Lore Haven Guild who said,
quote,
This was a great episode. I was too
young when the left behind books were coming
out. I remember asking my mom to read
them, but she said they were too scary
for us.
But for a garage sale or library sale,
we had 1 left behind kids book,
and it was a random book like number
8 or 9.
I don't remember much of it other than
really enjoying it and wishing I had the
rest.
This episode sparked my memory and had me
dangerously close to buying the whole left buying
kids series from ebay
to fulfill my childhood wishes.
I'd love to go back and read not
only the adult books, but the kid ones
also. The audio drama also sounds pretty epic.
It quote. Yeah. Right now, I think it
is kind of nostalgic, even listening to the
audio drama, I've noticed that... Even though the
audio drama kind of updated a few things
like, instead of a 07:57.
It's AA777.
And I think in the audio drama, they
get video conferencing much earlier than the folks
in the the main book series, but I'm
with Jerry who said earlier,
that he's content to just to leave the
series as it is and not try to
update it over and over again for each
new iteration of technology.
Eventually, technology technologies is just gonna kind of
out it, and so I would suggest that
if we ever do
a streaming series. Based on the left behind
books. Hint hint, please Lord. That would be
amazing within my lifetime within Jerry's lifetime, I'd
love to see that.
I would love to see that maintain that
alternate history of the original series,
where the technology throughout the left behind series
is advancing a similar pace as it did
when the series was first coming out or
you start off with modems and then you
end up with Wifi, and then nobody ever
quite gets a smartphone. But there was a
little more sci f flourish that came in,
that latter half of the tribulation, which I
as a Sci f fan, always appreciated. Yeah.
Steven, the thing I always think about is
the cell sole
system. The cellular towers... I see what he
did there. Solar panel and a satellite up
link and imagine that way, they don't to
worry about all the landline that got messed
up with all the earthquakes and and whatnot.
And you know, I was I went to
college for
telecommunications engineering technology. And so I latched on
immediately to that. I thought, oh, how this
gonna work and
And now we're living in the age where
there's Star link Internet. Thanks to Elon Musk
and, you know, you can get a satellite
up link on your house and even Apple
now has a, a satellite kind of Sos
mode on some of the phones and I
think even the Apple Watch Pro or something
So, you know, that that technology is becoming
very commonplace and it's... So what does that
mean 1 of them? But Tim Cook or
eel elon musk is the antichrist will know
necessarily. But it means that that's gonna already
be in place now for when we get
into that era, again depending on your es.
But let's go to another note we got
from A hero or rather a heroin of
the guild,
who heard the next episode 02:19 with Todd
Best steed, who is the, audio engineer of
the audio drama series.
And this person says, quote,
really enjoyed this episode. The audio drama was
how I first encountered the left behind series
as a we last.
I was obsessed with it. And then I
picked up the books, but I've always considered
the audio production to be superior.
Listening to all of these behind the scenes
details was amazing.
Thanks for both the nostalgia and the new
insights quote. Yeah. There's nothing like hearing this
distorted
insane voice, calling throughout the heavens whoa, whoa,
woe to the inhabitants of the earth
because of the Trumpets of the remaining angels
which are yet to sound. It it looks
kinda scary on the page, but when you
actually hear it out loud and everybody's cow
and crying, except for the Christians, of course,
it's definitely more of a spooky effect. So
there's just some things that the the audio
drama series can't help
doing better, but there's so many more details
though in the book. That, of course, you
will lose the adaptation. I think they they're
are both excellent for what they were trying
to be or the audience they were trying
to reach.
From there, we can put a bow on
the left behind legacy series at least 4
now as I've hinted a few times, I'm
guessing we will have more of the story
to share.
Maybe a few years from now, maybe 18
months from now. I don't know. I can't
make the prediction just as no 1 can
know the day or hour of Christ's return.
I just know that it wasn't in 19
95, and then who knows it could begin
20 25. It could be 22 25. Either
way, watch and wait, and next on fantastical
truth.
Cain cross once dreamed of helping make dream
worlds.
Now their world is being attacked by another
pandemic. This 1 strikes as you sleep,
sending its victims into dark tunnels of despair
to fight for their waking lives.
We seek a cure for the nightmare virus.
The new Y sci f thriller from Nadine
Brand,
which by the way, sounds a little bit
like 1 of the horsemen of the apocalypse
But I hope that we will look more
for christ than
antichrist. No matter your es,
no matter the end time series or scenarios
that you enjoy
revelation is about hope. Price return is about
hope. Yes. Prepare for the bad guys. Prepare
for the plagues,
You may even want to build a bomb
shelter in the backyard in case the beast
usher in World war whatever.
But Look to Christ. Let's look forward to
his coming, and let's enjoy amazing stories about
his coming as we continue to seek and
find his fantastical truth.