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And now back to the show.
Hello, and welcome normally cast this is your
host, Chris Cal. It is 07/22/2024,
about 11AM. You here in Colorado, and this
is episode 289
of the enormous cast.
A conversation with climber and musician
Smith Curry.
Have you guys heard a Smith Curry?
Did you guys order some Smith Curry at
that little Asian
American
fusion bi str downtown this weekend?
No. Smith Curry is not a dish.
Unless you really like mustache,
He is in fact 1 of the most
sought after Do and pedal steel session musicians
in Nashville.
That's hard to say,
session musicians in Nashville.
He also has a deep and varied and
long climbing resume.
Including first sense in the Us Canada
as far south as Peru.
So, yeah, this is 1 of those podcasts
that's gonna span.
Away from climbing away.
If you've been here a while, you know
I like to do these. Do you remember
Alexis K, Bradley Carter,
Chris Parker, our friend Harvey Wright.
Probably for forgetting some other ones. Did Mason
play? I can't remember if Mason played on
his podcast, but He's an amazing musician.
And, you know, I see the criticisms, not
just of the enormous cast but of all
climbing podcasts that they all just sound the
same.
It's the same stories, guys sending
pulling hard.
And you know, I get that. I understand.
Right? Podcast we put out content,
frequently.
I do twice a month. Some podcast podcasts
do 1 a week for Christ's sake.
So, yeah, maybe it kinda runs together. I
mean, think about it, like, In January, I
put out a post
interview with royal Robins, 1 of the great
climber in America of all time. From the
golden age and beyond. And then I followed
it up with Natalia Gross,
1 of our current Olympia, she's about to
compete in a couple weeks. I mean, if
you close your eyes
You'd had thought there was a same damn
person talking. I'm sure. Right? I mean, a
70 something year old guy and a 20
something year old girl same thing.
Blah blah blah, climbing climbing climbing.
And then on the heels of talking to
tie leggings, a black kid for Memphis,
I followed it up with a conversation with
emma t. A white lady from Wales.
I mean, could that be more similar?
Tennessee
Wales,
black kid, white lady. I mean, talk about
cookie cutter,
and then there was that story about Did
2 disappearing into a monastery for 13 years.
I mean, if we've heard that story once
we've heard it a thousand times, Am I
right.
So to combat all that same ness that
I've been putting out. I thought I'd talked
to Smith Curry.
A lot about climbing, but also a lot
about music and about the music industry.
If you are super into country music,
or maybe even casually than you've probably heard
Smith without even knowing it.
He's played on a lot of music, a
lot of hits
Plenty of number ones.
He's played with or 4 most of the
country people I've even heard of, not being
a big country fan myself.
You know, the giants,
folks like Willie Nelson, Dolly Part,
Randy Travis.
I mean, Dude was on stage with Merle
Fucking H.
He's currently all over the radio because there's
this song
by someone named Shi,
He's 1 of these sort of rap country
crossover guys, a trend that I think really
took off with little Nas x's Old town
Road.
Last year or a couple years ago whenever
that was.
Shi song is called the bar song Tip,
and because I listened to a very, very
nerdy
music podcast called Hit parade. I happen to
know that it is currently
number 2 on Billboards song of summer list.
In contention with another kinda crossover
country song. And Smith plays on that song.
So, yeah, if you heard it, you heard
Smith
Isn't that cool. And you probably did hear
this song even if you don't know it.
And I got to talk to Smith online
because I knew he was a climber, but,
of course,
my thing is I was more interested in
the music stuff, and actually didn't even realize
how
experienced
of a climber he was until we did
this podcast. And it it goes way deeper
than I thought. First the sense here and
there. He's an a. He's a big wall
climber.
Deep in it, and he still loves it
and instill into it even though he worries
about his hands because of course, they're are
his money makers.
Yeah, all here. I love this interview. I
could've kept talking to Smith for much longer.
So we'll move on here from my earlier
pitching. But I think a lot of you
guys come for. It's kind of my brand.
It's kind of a brand. I don't think
most of the other climbing podcast get as
cranky as I do do they?
Anyway, this is a super fun interview. I'm
really excited to present it to you guys.
So let's get to it.
Conversation with Climber and musician Smith Curry.
Hey, guys. It's me again.
That's right. Your toes,
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sent.
60000 dollar vintage tube microphone
into a 300000
dollar vintage desk and to this into that.
And then finally, at end, it's, like,
into, you know,
99 cent MP3
into 10 dollar earbuds.
Right. It's like we do all this and
then it just gets totally wrecked at the
back end.
Yeah. Isn't that Neil Young jack? Doesn't have
some? For big problem about the way. He
was a big proponent of...
He came out with some kind of hardware
strip. Device like an ipod but like super
high res and bandwidth. Yeah. Yeah. No 1
cared because we're all cheap and this doesn't
really matter.
Gaming
Yeah. Either other anyway. But, yeah. It's funny.
Cool, man. Thanks for doing this. I really
appreciate it. Yeah. Tight. Yeah. I me, too.
I just...
I had kind of this, like, rough night.
I I went climbing yesterday, and
Like, I did a pretty hard kinda go
on this route. And I came down and
I just was, like, sitting there, like, feeling
like I'd gotten run over by a tank,
you know? And these days, it's like not
uncommon to feel that way. But
I was like god, this feels really bad.
And then I just kinda, like,
I had my ear hurt a little bit,
and I think I had, like, a little
minor ear infection because I got home and
I was, like, chilled and and
I Like, I didn't really have a fever,
but I had that feeling of having a
fever, you know, like, I felt cold and
my ear hurt and and went to bed
and
I feel much better this morning though, but
I was little worried. I was like, oh,
man. How old are you doing?
52. I'll be 53 in 10 days though.
So I'm okay. I turned 57 10 days
ago. So... Okay. Right. Yeah. So you know.
You know what I'm talking about about the
being hit by a truck thing, every time
you know I.
I went kinda hard Saturday night. Though Yeah.
Big rock band extreme. Do you know they
have that big hit more than them Yeah.
No? III
just went on a new no Benton court,
like, rabbit hole,
not too long ago, on Youtube. Like, check
it all, you know. Yeah. So
about those guys. Yeah. So Nun was actually
a friend of mine. He reached out about
4 years ago about me
collaborating playing a showcase. For this country artist
that he's producing this girl. And so we
got to do bunch of rehearsal and then
play a big show at the exited in
together, and
he's So I hit him up and was
able, to, see the show Saturday night and
went backstage and hung out with him in
the van and stuff afterwards. So that was
really fun, But he... Is, man, he's a
deep cat too. He's not just a, you
know, shredder. He's he's a really, you know,
he's been Rihanna family. Leader for the last
15 years and so, oh, really? Yeah. And
we've worked collaborate a few other ways to...
He reached data out, there's this guy Owen
that he's producing, who's 1 of Taylor swift
dancers.
And I think he's done some dancing
for Rihanna two's. He's like, a tall about
skinny black guy with a killer voice. And
so
I played on this record for Nun, kinda
long distance,
remotely. And then
it was during pandemic. And so he... For
his single release, he wanted to do a
video
where it's just Nun playing acoustic nick owen
singing and then me playing pedal steel. And
so each filmed ourselves, I filmed myself out
in my side yard of my house, and
he cobb a to together they're for a
cool video that accompanied with the the release
with it, so that was pretty fun.
That's awesome. I mean, Yeah know, I've been
thinking about this thing, you know, I've just
kinda followed you on Instagram, and, you know,
we occasionally exchange comments and stuff like that.
And and, like this, you like that story
you just told,
and and, you know, referencing some of these
people that we've heard of and stuff. It's
like, door I mean, we could do that
for the next, like, 6 days. Straight. I
feel like, Honestly. I mean, you know, like,
looking at your your music resume, it's it's
it's kind of...
I mean, it's staggering. And I think it's,
you know, it's just added up for you
over the years. Like, I Nightly... I read
this thing Like, oh, you played on 20000
country songs or some something like that. I'm,
like, and that... It just, you know, I'm
sure your dreams as a as a, you
know, a a starting musician
never really,
like placed you there. But yeah slowly, but
surely, you've just, this accumulation, it's kinda fantastic.
Yeah. So looking back. It's, like, holy shit.
You know, I've probably worked with over, like
250
signed artists. I mean, that's Mh the people
with deals and stuff instead of just random
dude.
But... Yes. It's like, well, that's you know,
over the last 30 years. So, you know,
if you do a few cool things every
year, it adds up for sure. Yeah. It's
all the same with climbing too. Right? You
know, I mean, you know, you look back
at anybody's climbing resume that's been in the
game a long time and it gets a
lot more impressive.
Yeah. For sure. I mean, I kinda feel
like
you know, there's a part of that and
in this a normal cast thing because that's
when I started it.
I was like, you know, it was like
the dawn of podcasting kind of thing and
I was like, you know what? I I
know enough, like, quote unquote famous climber, you
know, kinda talking about your signed musicians. Like,
I could probably do something like this. And
I've just... And it was the same thing.
I've just been around long enough that I
was lot I've climbed with these people and
talk to him and know, and it's a
different... You know, there's a different wall between
even someone like Hon and someone like Taylor
Swift, but
you But, yeah, you know, it's it's kinda
of the same vibe in a way that
I started this thing on on a very,
you know, minor level compared to what you
do. Yeah. I didn't wanna get Taylor. I
didn't wanna get Twitch kelly swift in here
for for good Seo,
because I did see a video you on
stage with her.
More back when she was not quite the
the gigantic,
you know, astronomical
neutron star that she is now.
But nevertheless.
Yeah. Well, you know, it was funny is
that was when she was first... And that
was her first C fast.
And she's the country artist still. Yeah. And...
But, you know, it was... That she her
first singles out and that really took off
for her and so it went on. And
then...
I played on her speak now album, which
is maybe here for the record. I'm, I
think... But, you know, my climbing french have
a great way of keeping me grounded. This
is a pretty fun story. I had gone
over to Over overdo at the producers homes
since studio.
It was like, on a Sunday randomly.
And
I was driving home in 1 of my
long time studio you know, Yosemite friends, Kendra
K called me up randomly just to say,
hi. Like, what do you? I was like,
I was all psyche brag. I was, I
just playing on Swift records, she goes, who's
Taylor Swift?
Yeah. Right. Put me right back. In my
place. You know. Yeah. The climber are sort
of will fully... A lot of times are
will fully, like, you know, blunt to any
sort of pop culture. In like, as as
kind of a sign fire of their, you
know, of their cr kind of the things.
It's like when you... When someone pretends to
not, you know, know who, like, you know,
Steph Curry is because they so, like, in
the mountains that they can't possibly,
you know, pay attention sort of stuff. That's
awesome. Yeah. That's still awesome. I I wanted
to ask you kind of a question. I
mean, we're already kind of into it. But,
I was just like, that
thinking... Like, when was the last time you
rock climbed? Like, literally, like, was it... I
think it was just like weeks ago it
seems like. Yeah. Just like maybe a week
and a half. I was
we're to go. Let's see. Everything's like 2
hours from Nashville. There's nothing good in town.
So I went to the Ob,
like, 3 weeks ago. And then
I went to Denny Cove who just ran
foster falls just like a week and a
half ago. Trying to get out more, you
know,
so stave off the old age. You know
what I mean, part of it's part of
its, you know, definitely
the d
of getting older, but a big part is
just trying to get work, weather. Mh. Partners
and family stuff to all line up, Just
always harder and harder. Yeah. Yeah. Totally So.
Well, let me ask... The my question really
was, like, I kinda wanted you to
recount. So you weren't climbing about week and
a half ago. I kinda wanted just to
get a picture of your life because it's...
I think it's just it's really cool. And
then then we'll get in your climbing in
your... In your in a little bit more
some other stuff, but, anyway, like, recount your
your week since then. Like, because it I...
You know, we've been chatting in the last
week, like, trying to get this thing going
and and there's just been some cool shit.
Besides this thing you just talked about, which
was, like, hanging out with with, you know,
Nun and backstage and things like that. But
there's been, like... A red carpet thing, like,
I'm sure you more forgot about that. Yeah.
Yeah. Exactly You forgot about that.
And if we go back 2 weeks. Can
brag and name drop even a little more.
Okay. Go back 2 weeks then today. I
was doing my morning
trail run or hike... Depending on how I'm
feeling and what I'm up for. I go
every morning the last 9 or 10 months,
there's a partner nearby that's great. And I
got a 10 from Terry Clark, who is
a big country artist, especially in the nineties,
but yes, she's been doing cool stuff since
then. And she's like, hey, do you wanna
a text played Do on a song for
me. I said, you know, well, course. And
then she's like, yeah. It's said do that
with Kelly Clark
like, well, talk about Barry the league. You
know, You Kelly Clark is 1 of the
biggest pop stars in the world. And then,
I did that. The next few days after
that, and she's like, yeah, that went, great.
You wanna play on this other 1 I
did with Cody Jaws and who's, like, the
biggest 1 of the top 3 country artists
right now. So that was pretty fun.
But... Yeah, you asked about the red carpet
thing. There's a film called the Neon Highway,
and I it stars Bow bridges, you know,
Jeff Bridges older brother, famous American actor.
And this guy, Rob Maze, who...
Is an actor that I've produced a bunch
of songs for.
So it's a country music movie
about, you know, raw plays up in and
come country star in Bow bridges it's the
g old old veteran who's been out of
the game for a while.
And Rob kind of, you know,
got me involved on the project. We filmed
it, like, 3 years ago and just for
whatever reasons it took this long to come
out.
And it was... At the height of the
height of the pandemic stuff, and it was
crazy. We filmed the scene in a crowded
bar, I'm, like rocket out. On lab steel
on the scene. And so that's pretty fun.
They used the actual audio for when we
were filming, which is rare.
And they had everybody all the extras in
the crowd on wear masks and face shields
for, like, 3 hours straight while we were
setting up the band and getting audio, doing
the film blocking and all that stuff. And
then for the next 5 hours while we're
filming they had them take all that stuff
off.
I was just, like,
you know, with the hell. Yeah. Right? It
was red. I I got to rock out
with Libra rice big country guy
in the film. And then I have a
second scene where I'm playing poker around a
pool table with Libra rice and Bow bridges
and,
Dave Rowe,
legendary country guy, old friend of mine, play
base for Johnny Cash for years. Ice he
sadly passed several months ago.
But I had a few lines in the
movie, like, in a close up scene with
1 of the most iconic actors in American
film,
you know, bow bridges.
I was pretty nervous, fortunately, it didn't look
that way in the film. So it had
its premier and I've walked the red carpet
and stuff just a few days ago. And
I that was pretty fun. I had to
do a few interviews, which is a little
unusual for me. But her Yeah. Is... Yeah.
Saw. You're like, a... You're, like a side
man and and stew in studio guy. You're
supposed to be sort of in the background.
Yeah. Absolutely. So yeah. There's been a couple
times where I'm forced to actually speak or
whatever I got asked by the country music
hall of fame to do the musician spotlight
a couple times. And, times I brought a
couple friends to sing some of these songs,
and I've, you know, had to talk about
my career in Nashville and play some of
the hits that I played on.
Yeah. Little nerve wracking actually having to
speak in public.
Yeah. That's that's that's pretty cool. Yeah. Like
you said, like I said, you're you're used
to you know, being on the on the
album and in the background and stuff. Like,
although, you've you've been on stage in front
of tens of thousands too, so that's that's
pretty heavy. But let let's just keep a
little bit of faith to the climbing podcast
end of this thing because otherwise, I mean,
as people know from listening when I... And
and this is something I do. I'm unlike
a hack musician,
you know, just a just a hobby kinda
dude and but I love having people on
who have... Like, a toe in this world.
And and I mean, you have, like, you
know, you're up to your knees at least,
if not if not thighs in this way.
So... But you... But you're a caught and
you're you're a series climber and you've spent
a lot of time doing that. And it
is kinda sometimes strange to to find someone
Timer who doesn't just dabble, you know, in
in both, and you're committed to both. And,
so tell tell me a little bit about
your climbing as far as
far as your history and kinda prompted you
by thinking about how you think about some
of the sort of big important in your
mind things that that kind of formed you.
As a climber, But, I mean, where did
you grow up? Like, how how did you
end up
being this climber musician? Yeah. So... Was Till
I was 6, we lived in Massachusetts, and
my dad, even when I was really young
took me on pretty
legit backpack packing trips. Like, really having a
hike and camp out in the white Mountains
of New Hampshire and stuff. And for a
year just to test the waters we moved
to Palo alto, California,
to see if that's what my dad wanted
to... He was teaching at Mit,
and he wound up working for Nasa in
the Bay area. But when we were there
when I was 6, we went to Yosemite,
and my head just exploded.
I said, I got a climb. I got
a climb, and my dad went to the
Yosemite Mountain School and said my son wants
to take a climbing lesson and they said,
no, nobody under 18, and I kept pest...
Him and they finally re and Wayne Mary,
who was with Warren harding on the first
descent of the nose gave me and my
dad climbing lesson. And over there on the
Swan slab, you know, care for. And that
definitely, you know, set the hook.
I dabble as a teenager a little bit,
it. And then when I... In my early
twenties, I started climbing harder.
A little before that, I tried to get
back into it it I didn't know how
to train properly and I was just cranking
out pull ups on door jams and stuff
and got pretty bad tendon night, and I
thought, well, I guess I can't climb and
bm musician, but I just didn't know how
to... I mean, there wasn't that information wasn't
available back then. And that's been
obviously a constant source attention in my
you know, for the last
40 years, you know, the a broken finger
is climbing twice,
yeah. On 8 climbing falls, both times randomly.
I broke my ankle sport climbing and as
a pedal steel plan, you know, your feet
are really important.
And just, you know, all of finger tweaks
and stuff, which to an regular person wouldn't
be a big deal or you know, that's
definitely a thing.
But, you know, growing up outside the Bay
Area, I started climbing in the valley in
my twenties, you And you know, kinda each
thing is like a gateway drug, your tread
connie,
then your big wall climbing, and then your
ice icon, then optimism and then feel like
Alpine climbing is both.
I've been able to bring everything I've learned
over the years from these their disciplines to
to climbing. And then it just kinda plays
my natural strengths. I've never been a strong
finger guy. I can train them a bit
and get their better, but it's not great
for my fingers either just to be whale
away at the gym 5 days a week.
But, yeah, It's been cool. It's been, no,
back in the day, when I was a
touring musician, I'm mostly doing recording work these
days. The country tours would wind up, usually
around mid December for the year, and you'd
have, like, a month and a half or
2 months off.
And they would encourage you to collect unemployment.
Your tour manager and say, yeah, Good the
obviously call it redneck retainer.
Right? So the big tours would actually give
you a retainer year round but out you
know, the average tours, you know. So you
go out and collect unemployment and then I
drive out West for a month and a
half, and Ice icon and colorado, auto and
then go to the southwest or wherever,
you know, man do love the desert towers,
you know, done a bunch of that over
the years. Auto it's also led me to
do, like, a lot of stuff in the
winter where normally you wouldn't do it, you
know,
did Devil's tower in the winter 1 year,
like, first week of February.
But definitely off season.
And then
did that for years, and then now married
with a kid.
It's harder to get, like,
Hey, Honey. I'm gonna take 12 days off
and gone a climbing trip and not making
bunch of money we need and risk my
life on a big frozen mountain and while
you're here with a kid by yourself. Off
and my career that makes the money. Yeah.
Exactly. But what's been cool now is I
usually get called to fill in for somebody
once a year in the summer for a
few shows out west or suns even just
a show. And then I'll tack on a
bit of a climb onto to the end
of that. So it's been pretty cool like,
summer I went out to do the Ac
awards in Vegas with Rod Atkins 1 year,
And so I got there a couple days
early and did some stuff in Red rock
canyon and, you know, Dark. Shadows and stuff
like that classics like that. I was touring
the the big British since pop Band,
and we were over in England for a
while, and I managed to do some grit
stone climbing with somebody I've, like, connected with.
People have always been super cool, Like, kinda
go into the local climbing shop and ask
around,
and people will take you out. I was
in Stockholm,
with Pam Till,
just and went into the climbing shop and
somebody took me boulder.
It's been like that, you know, over the
years more recently. I was out West this
last summer filling in with this guy, Stephen
Wilson Junior. Who's amazing.
And,
went and solo
El dorado peak in the North Cascade in
slack just kind of a fun, you know,
non technical,
mountain near
John,
year before did Lizard head with my... 1
of my oldest client partners. I was out,
doing some shows with this girl Jesse James
Decker. And my buddy, Rob H and Duran
met up with him. And I was just
been... Went from sea level the day before
to 13000 feet that day. That's always been
a challenge too. You're, like, in the middle
of a tour,
not in shape.
Else hungover over and still try to get
up something good. You know?
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, it's it's
think it's pretty cool and not and and
again, I sort of follow your
your socials and and interact and I don't
know. I was kinda wondering about... I this
sort of side man thing,
you know, this this person who's on every...
It seems like you're on everybody's speed dial,
to have
to to bring in to to to play
on their album. So that speaks to 2
things in my mind talent
because they can count on you to to
do a good spot on whatever they're recording,
and also your... You know, you have these
per... Do chops, so they can count on
that. And you know what you're doing. You...
I'm sure you walk in, get it done
and walk out, like, you know, Eddie van
Hale un beat it or whatever.
But then there's gotta be this, like,
you seem like... Yeah. You're all good. You're
you're, like, yeah I'll do it, and and
I'll I'll I'll...
You know, promote you, and I'll... You know,
you're always like, yeah, This guy's amazing and
this guy's amazing. So you you bring this,
like, really good positive energy. I started to
think about how that probably plays into your
being a good climbing partner as well? Like,
do you ever think of sort of the
crossover of, like, who you are as a...
And as a person and why you bring
these certain things to the table that have
made you successful kind of on both ends
of things.
Well, I think the common thread there would
be just grit and
determination. Like,
I've never been that strong of a free
climber, but I've gotten up... A lot of
pretty cool stuff over the years. You know?
Right. And it's the same thing. I feel
like some of the people I work with
musically have more natural,
gifts, more natural talent,
but, just, you know, just
busting your ass and paying attention and never
giving up up, you know, go a long
way for both these pursuits. You know?
You know, there's tension between the 2 Ira
out touring with kid rock and up I
mean, I think you can imagine what that
tour would be like. And I was trying
to trade because I had an opportunity we
had, like, 2 weeks off, and I was
gonna go to peru.
To the Court Blanca and try to climb
him there. And I remember we're playing the
Big Jones Beach Amp theater,
and I like I'm out, like, you know,
to all day trying to run as far
as I can just to get in shape,
you know, And
I headed to prove. Actually, I... Just as
a traveling partner, I grabbed the guy who
shot the
For us on that tour because there was
a lot of, you know,
huge p on that tour. That was 2003
2004
kind of I kid rocks Heyday.
He had had that single with Cheryl Crow
just a year or 2 before, and he
was, like,
Hitting it. He was 1 of the world's
biggest rock bands at the time.
And,
yeah. I mean, I probably I can't tell
some of those have to take those to
the grave, but, you know, he's definitely holding
the torch for this, you know, big rock
tours, booze blow,
pills, Bro porn star stripper. I mean, all
that shit. So trying to train for, you
know, a mountain nearing an Alpine trip. But
sure, shit. We got down there and
4 It was cool. I noticed that the
duty free shop. They had 2 for 1
with Jack Daniels and I thought, you know,
this would be good.
But it was just these big jugs. I
was like, god, that's too much, but whatever
I can't pass up the deal, But I
got to high camp and that stuff is
worth it's weighing gold. I mean, they don't
have that peru. You know? So I was
able to trade it for not am and
for other stuff like that. Really And
Yeah.
I mean, word After leaving Nashville. I was,
you know,
on top of a 19000 foot peak, so
that was amazing.
Who are you climbing with just the deposit
Ir guy.
He actually made it near the top of
1 of the mountains, but it got a
little technical and he waited for me while.
So like... Ir I saw it an easy
1 and then climbed that another 1 with
him, and then... There was a a rage
that I was pretty sure was un climbed
on Ur as Day. I think it's, like,
18000 in change. And I found a guy
who wanted to decline it. And that morning,
I went to go get him to go
up there, and he was gust the left
a notes, hey he was gonna solo something
else. I was super pissed. I was walking
back to my 10. I ran 3 guys
from Salt Lake City. I was, like, on
wanna go up and try this thing, and
this guy Jason foot, strong climb too, man
it's good because it wound up being
pretty in your face and pretty good.
Serious mixed, you know, steep mix con at
18000 and plus,
and he had been in country for a
while, and
we did the first descent just right off
the bat like that.
I've been something on my website about it.
In, like, 2 or 3 years later. I
felt bad. Some climber from the north used
ain't gonna... He,
him and his partner had scoped the line
and gotten money from their client in club.
And what down there, and they had climbed
it, and they got packet. And he saw
this, like, several year old account of it
on my website.
Alright.
Oops sorry.
I should written it up in the American
Alpine journal.
That... Yeah. That's that's pretty funny. Yes.
Especially too It's like, yeah, You're big your
big thing. I just like, you know, took
a few days off from this giant tour
and set set your pledge project. That's cool.
Awkward.
You know, the 2 world's colliding kind of
thing that it's kinda interesting to me too
because, you know, us climber,
you know, the more you dip into kinda
quote unquote real life, you
I mean, with me, I decide I decide
not to really talk about it too much
with people who don't climb, like, I have
to because they're like, oh, I heard you
a climber like, have you seen free solo,
you know, that that whole conversation.
I tended like just kinda stay away from
it as much as I can. And I
think it'd be pretty
interesting like, you know, you resumed to that
tour, presumably right? Because you said he had
2 weeks off. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, like,
I mean, do you ever... Do you talk
to the folks that you run into in
in your world in the music world about
this thing or do they know?
Or is it like, kind of... Is it
kinda like a parts
situation where you you... You know, you put
your glasses back on and and your you
know,
kinda slip back into the other world.
I... You know,
obviously, something Probably thought I was just, like,
hiking or o you go to Machu p
picchu, you know Right.
I've I've been friends for many years with
Mary Brock. On and, you know, yosemite Fame
And Sure. She told me if she sent
some climbing pictures of her to her mom
of his elderly Japanese woman. And she would
hold them sideways.
She didn't
believe or understand somebody could be, you know,
cleaning up like that. Right. But I think
it was shortly after peru, was playing,
red rocks, you know, the icon Venue
with Kid rock. And, 1 of my climber
buddies who lives in Lead came out to
hang
and
Sonic There's boulders all around outside the venue,
and there signs everywhere saying 10000 dollar fine
for climbing on the rocks. So, of course,
we climb on.
Many of the boulders as we find.
You're yeah. I'm a Vip. But yeah. Holding
me a alone. Show my Ama. You know,
if they try to arrest me.
I'm I'm with the band.
Yeah. That's that's cool. So let me ask
about the the, you know, the early days
of B musician. You mentioned something a moment
ago about. Like that... Even when you started
climbing, you were already a musician. And did
you already have sort of dreams of that
as a career as something that you would
you would pursue pursue at that level. Because
plenty of climber, you know, like myself, we
play guitar. We str around the fire and
everything else, and It sounds like you were
pretty serious about it even in your early
twenties about pursuing it as a professional. But...
Yeah, Tell me about that path. Yeah. I
kinda dabble it. A teenager, and they got
serious when I was 20
or so. But I I think kinda what
you alluded to before. It's, with also with
climbing just kind of never even believing that
I could achieve any of the stuff that
I've achieved both, you know, I never thought
a cl Capita, you know, when I was
in youngster.
And, you know, I never thought... I just...
I thought, Man Could make a living playing
music just playing shitty bars or whatever. That
would be incredible. You know? I mean, that
was kind of my first goal. And then
I could think kind of, like, with... Climbing,
you keep achieving goals and
either
they aren't as great as you thought they
were gonna be or you just kind of
naturally want the next thing. So,
I started playing Blue grass hearing Jerry Douglas
at
strawberry music festival is a music festival right
outside Yosemite.
And I was there when I was maybe
21 or something. And I have been playing
a lot of Robert Johnson style Delta blues,
you know, with a slide on my finger.
And,
I was there at my girlfriend at the
time when we heard in the campground, and
we heard
coming from the stage. And we're were like,
whoa, what is that? We got down there,
and it was Jerry Douglas Playing Do, and
that just... My head just exploded. You know,
I was like, that's what I wanna do.
So I spent the next few years trying
to be Jerry Douglas,
then stop realistically holistically, I spend the next
few years trying to really get away from
that because there's already somebody that's, you know,
nobody's gonna be him at his own game.
But moved to a few years later to
play Blue grass do. That was my goal.
And the first person I met upon moving
to Nashville Nashville. That was June 94. So
I'm coming up on 30 years now. Hard
to believe. It's been that long. It was
a steel guitar player named Steve Hatch super
cool guy. He's still around.
And he talked me into getting a pedal
deal.
So I don't know if how many people
out there Knicks the nomenclature,
sometimes people even in the industry, you get
the nomenclature kinda bundled. The difference between a
dough... Do is basically like a guitar, oh
with a metal res,
but you play it
flat on your lap with a bar on
the strings instead of your left hand fingers
and then usually picks on your right hand.
It has that cool twang sliding sound. Maybe
I can demonstrate? Yeah. Demonstrate. Let's see what
it sounds like dude this mike, and And
we did we did for for that behind
the scenes, we did try to set up,
like, really special mic and stuff here, but...
Yeah. Then it didn't work because apparently
Smith doesn't know how to deal with Mike
for 30 years and but been.
A lot. That sounds great.
I'm not warmed out.
And then has contrast. Good. Everyone loves the
sound of a dover. Like everyone. I'm getting
this insurance free too it's a amazing part.
And then
pedal steel
definitely...
It's
more of a love, hey. I think most
people look of it. But pedal steel oh,
yeah. So, I'm wrong with you. People... Just...
I think it sounds too country.
You know,
love
But then
to stay modern and current in Nashville,
there's so much of it's really pop you
know,
kinda crazier as
And then, you know, more raw stuff.
So
hunter like some old dudes that would like,
shoot you for putting to
For sure. It's, you know. Yeah. Totally.
Yeah. And, you know, I'm working and those
guys aren't.
So, yeah. It's, you know, gotta adapt. So,
yeah. It takes a certain kind of person
that can, you know, I guess years of
big wall climb kind of has helped me
with the kinda of suffering and patience needed
to, you, learn pedal steel because... I mean,
it's a year or setting sitting down every
day for a few hours before anything sounding
like music comes out of it.
So like, the perseverance thing is is well
because you're pretty sitting I mean, you're pretty
casually talking about, you know, going to Nashville,
and I met this guy and then I
started playing on stuff. And and and obviously,
you know, to get to a point in
your career that you are
is like a... It's like Hollywood. Right? A
thousand musicians a day show up to to
to Nashville and and hoping to have happened
to them what's happened to you. So tell
me a little bit more about that
progression, I mean, to luck perseverance
grit, Like, what were some of the other,
like, milestones and and moving your career along
when you're just, you know,
dragging your your do around Nashville when you
first got there and and your abs a
thing. You're absolutely right. Luck perseverance in grit
totally because... So you know, I just wanted
to make a living at it when I
got here. I was like, I don't care
if I play bars. I would be so
freaking cool. And then I saw some of
my friends starting to get some who big
country gigs with touring gigs with big country
artists. And I had really just started pedal
steel,
maybe a year before
I got the job with Doug stone, who
was a really big nineties country star. I
think his first 15 singles all in the
top 4. But most of his stuff is
valid. So I could get a good own.
I wasn't really a great player by any
means at all yet. I was terrible, but
I could get a good tone and playing
tune.
And the last guy they had kind of
a dick, and they thought I seemed like
a fun guy. I can fool people for
a little bit. You know.
So I got a tour with a big
country artist. And did that for a couple
years, and then I saw friends
getting
few of my friends getting big rock gigs,
and I was like, you know, after I
done a bunch country touring, I was like,
man, that would be so cool. You know,
and then I got the gig with kid
rock. You know, kind of in his heyday.
And I was like, this... Is amazing. You
know, the fun, kinda check that bucket list.
And then, some of my friends were getting
more recording work. This is and,
man that'd be so cool to play on,
you know, big country hits or big, you
know,
and, managed to play on. I guess, my
first 1 was
well, I played on the acoustic version of
3 wooden crosses for Randy Travis, which was
a huge huge song.
But the other 1 was Jason Now the
first number 1. I had a pretty cool
lapse deal cell on that. It's called why.
So, yeah, I was like, okay. Now I'm
getting more recording work.
And recording works kind of
especially later on, you know, your twenties touring
fun. You're on a bus, having fun, getting
crazy.
But musically, it's not very
rewarding. And, you know, further your musicians ship,
playing the same 15 songs every night help
I was on the opening act and the
Tim mcgraw tour where we played 19 minutes
a day, and then just sit around 23
and a half. Half hours a day on
the tour bus. They drove me crazy. So,
you know, staying in town, playing on recordings,
playing all the time, half way better for
your musicians ship and probably your health to,
you know, that touring lifestyle. I think,
you know, The stories are all true. I
guess I would go there and insane.
Well, Yeah. Let me ask you about that
because it... You know, was something I talked
to Alexis K about
same kind of interview about, you know, climbing,
but I wanted to just talk to her
about about music,
Lexus from sleigh bells and And you know,
we talk a little bit about that, like,
the not the clash of the lifestyle too
and, oh, it sounds like, you know And
but but also, like, you know, some people
can go in get into that world and
and have it swallow them whole, You know,
if they if they don't have any sort
of governor on on their ability. Yeah. And
absolutely I on the ball, as far as
you know,
playing, but also as far as, you know,
if you wanna... Like I said, you're training
for Peru with on the kid rock tour.
So tell me a little bit about your
thoughts about, that and maybe your personality is
just such that you can you can keep
it, you know, you can keep it a
little bit under control or or what. And
I'm sure you've seen plenty of people will
flame out on that stuff as well.
Yeah. It's... I mean, it's terrible. And, you
know, seeing
climber as well lose control as far as,
you know, substance abuse. But... Yeah, in the
music industry, of course, it's brutal.
I
absolutely do feel like climbing keeps me and
check as far as tendencies to... You know,
these days it'll gonna probably just be drinking
too much. And
you know, but in the past, all kinds
of other stuff.
I remember, we were on tour
with this artist and we played... There was
a big country music festival on Copper Mountain.
Colorado.
And we stayed up that night, Jamming and
partying with this cool with a bunch of
friends, and I had a date set up
to climb Just the easy route on the
third flat iron in the next day. And
I was so hungover over. I could barely
stand. It was a relief getting onto the
route because I could actually you know, hang
on to something.
You can use all for all 4 append
instead of just too. Exactly
but, Yeah. I mean,
even partying aside, I would say that it
probably... There's a chance I would be...
Yeah a better musician if I hadn't spent
all the time climbing, and,
obviously, it'd be a much better climber if
I had wasted all the time playing music.
But I think each has helped to keep
me sane and healthy too. I feel like
a lot of my friends in music have
had tendon issues, carpal tunnel problems and stuff
like that. And then climbing, obviously, 10 stuff
is a big deal, but I feel like
they're so different. They actually... Have helped prevent
me from having problems with a lot of
that. The way I did it early on
when I wasn't training. Right?
But... Yeah, there's... Man, there's so much give
and take. You know,
I remember when I broke my foot.
Sport climbing brought mike Ti and F just
on a routine fall, just totally regular. Mh.
I had them leave enough tow
sticking out of the cap so I could
press on the pedals on my stealing tire,
so I wouldn't
miss any work.
Right. And man,
I broke a finger
just traversing under a roof on a simple
aid pitch
in North Carolina.
I popped a piece trying to go quickly,
and my other hand was through a cara,
and it broke my peak, like, badly.
And
I had them make the cast kind of
thing to wear... Was sticking up a bit
so I could still play steel guitar.
I wouldn't miss any dates on my tour,
but,
or Yeah. Those kind of things really kinda
put the fear of God into you and
make... It's made me, you know, question whether
it's being an idiot climbing, you know, over
the years since... You know, music is, of
course, my passion,
but also my bread and butter. I was
up in Canada doing the show with Pam
Till us about 4 or 5 years ago.
And
went and climb the East ridge Mount temple,
the Canadian classic.
It's a really long out. And by the
time we got up and into the black
towers near the top, a storm had come
in. And
I was at a hang be delay. My
partner was around the corner, and I got
hit by lightning,
and just wall. I I don't know if
his drain or not, but I got wall
I was days out of my mind. And
then for another 45 minutes or so, had
it just kinda sit there at this exposed
hanging b they,
well lying and kept crashing down all around
me and
kinda of mentally apologize and into my...
They sons for not being around for them
the rest of their lives, you know, we
managed to hit the summit and the dis
sandwich is normally just a couple hour john
down, and why out conditions took a lot
longer. And I woke up the next morning
and my fingertips were
painful and ting and it really bad not
great way. I guess they were frost and
for about a month or 2, it's really
hard to play guitar.
Most of my work these days basis on
steel guitar and no and lapse deal. So
it didn't affect me too much, but that
was a real
basis between almost dying and, freezing my fingers.
It was like,
so
maybe not going... Quite as hard in Alpine
endeavors as Used to. Yeah. But I mean,
the thing that's interesting I think about, you
know, your career and climbing and I... You
know, we parallel each other you're a little
older than me.
You started earlier. But nevertheless I mean, climbing,
you know, for all of its... You old
adventure, things, like, it's become so much more
accessible and, like, a person like yourself with
a career and a and in a family
and a
all the things that go with being older
and having a a proper life with all
the pressures and things. Like, climbing is more
accessible for us now. Like, you know, you're
in the age too or there was no
sport climbing when you start climbing. There were
no climbing gyms. Yeah. And so it's like,
you can, like, you can't you can have
time I'm now to go and dabble and
you don't have to risk your life because
that's the other thing about pre sport climbing
is, like, not all tread climbing is dangerous,
but If you're an ab... If you're an
avid climber in the late seventies and and
eighties,
you know, danger was sort of part of
the game. And it doesn't really have to
be, I mean, I know you broke your
your your foot and leg, sport climbing, but,
you know, it's interesting how we... We've... You
know, it fits into our lives a little
bit better because I'm the same way. I
mean, Don't have this, like, massive music career,
but I got the family and the whole
thing. So
is just kinda cool that we can still
be climber
without, you know, these temple
kind of adventures and stuff, stuff like that.
Yeah. And when you're younger and you have
a close call,
solo or ice climbing or in the mountains,
You know, it's all stuff that I... Used
to do lots of
when you're younger and you have a close
call. You're like, oh, shit. That was an
gnarly man. Got fucked up and kinda laughing
about this kind of, like,
into the spice of the adventure. Your older,
like, shit, man. I've already used up 10
of my non lives, you know, this is
added kinda not great. But Man, it's hard
to it's hard to put it down. You
know,
you have, you know, I was out you
know, like I said, 2 2 years ago
I was out West playing some guitar for
Jesse James Decker and went did lizard head
with my buddy. I mean, that's probably. Good
level of adventure for me right now. You
know, this shit loads a loose rock and
exposure, but, you know, pretty. A greasy.
Yeah. It's totally that's... It's... Yeah. Yeah. That's
is that thing is kinda wild. It's like,
just poking up out of that ridge and
it's not even that tall, but it looks
like like gigantic from a distance. So... Yeah.
I'm that summit exposure is pretty rad. You're
like, well yeah. Son.
Well, a couple of other line of questioning.
So you... You know, you... You were this
this West Coast climber to begin with Yosemite
all the other things out there.
And then you... You know, not only did
you want a new music scene
because you wanted to move to Nashville where
it was all happening and where you could
pursue the blue grass style and then got
into country and all that sort of thing.
But
you also, you moved into a different climbing
community in a different climbing vibe, and and
I think just like everything else, it feels
sort of global now. Right? Climbing. But but
there were like, the further back you go,
the more click scene,
kinda different, you know, gunk boulder,
you know, the Southeast. We're all...
In Yosemite in Southeast were kind of, like,
miles apart as as far as thought process
and also finding climber to climb with. I
think, you know, it was definitely more in
these how how haul
you know, guys creeping around in these haul
without really telling anything about it. So tell
me a little bit about moving there as
a climber and, you know, you're pursuing this
this
music things super hard, but also wanting to
climb. So did the did did it... The
integration go well and and found people to
climb. Well.
Actually, I stopped climbing for a year and
a half when I first moved to Nashville.
It was 94.
I had had... I got caught by a
storm solo.
Leading tower in Yosemite,
and it was pretty grim. I, you know,
obviously made it, but it was not great.
A bunch of bling people had to get
rescued off walls in that storm,
but I made it down. And there was,
like, a couple of other things like that
that made me just kinda like, I don't
know.
So when I got to town, I thought,
you know, look, I should be more serious
about it,
about music.
I'll take, like, a... I'll just stop. And
I made it like a year year and
a half, and I was, like, I'm miserable.
So started getting back on it,
and There was a
rock gym down in Franklin, and the classic
rock jim, Bruce Hi was the owner and
there was kind of a cool bunch of
guy. And and a girl, his daughter who
would climbed there, the regulars. And it was
fun to hang out with those folks.
Kirk G, he was 1 of the guys
he's wound up putting a lot of the
hard first to sense up at Tennessee wall
and stuff over the last 15 years, and
I wound up doing a bunch of trips
out west with him.
He's hitting a lot of the 50 classics.
We even did, like, Ship rock and
but also some more adventurous stuff. We did
a first to sentence zion and stuff,
yeah, there... There was no a basically in
Nashville that at least none that I knew
of Mark Kart wright had done some good
stuff and maybe Jamie Dial, our Il is
kind of a legendary guy in the Southeast
and super
great guy. It's been an awesome friend for
years.
Ar you know, he dabble, but he's just
a wicked and strong rock climber and still
it is in his sixties.
But... Yeah. It was different. I mean, My
I love is the long the long climbs,
you know, kind of yosemite stuff,
Alpine stuff, big wall stuff. And so Now
the cl in the southeast is amazing, but,
you know, a hundred feet less basically.
Yeah. I don't know. There's again. There's... You
may be dismissing it. Is luck or whatever.
But there's... Again, I think there's something about
you as as a person that probably
draws people to you again as someone they
want in their band or or they want
on their album, but also as a partner.
And let's focus on the climbing part of
it, Like, what is it do you think?
I mean, You've ever thought about, like, what
do you bring to the team so to
speak. As a question I ask a lot
of people.
Well,
yeah. It gotta have fun, man. Gotta have
fun. Always. I can be prone and things
get a little grim to whine a little
bit, and I've tried to
my music career and my...
So I, you know, always try to keep
an eye out for that. I remember
both maybe 10 years ago climbed Mount Watkins
with
Keith Robinson, and this young girl, Anna, bath,
who you probably, you know, She's went down.
She was pretty green man. Right? And he's,
like, did my friend come, Should we go
awesome and she I she led 1 page,
but it was just kinda a little... Too
much too soon for her. And I'm telling
this because it's a good story, but I'll
get... The lining part in a second.
The third day, I lead off from the
be from the vi, and, she ours up,
and we're both at this hanging blade 3
out and feet off the ground,
and, Keith is taking down camp, and he's
gonna have to clean my aid pitch. So
it's it's gonna take a minute. And I
felt my myself stomach grow. And, I mean,
we're just, like, hanging off these bolts hip
to hip with this, you know, sweet little
20 year old girl
I looked at her as was, like, hi.
I'm sorry. She's like, what? And I just
had to, like, drop trial
and just
exploded and, like, coded 80. And need to
rock below us.
Fortunately, the pitch was pretty diagonal,
so Keith didn't get any of it. But
then, you know, we just had to hate
out there for another 45 minutes. While the
sun started baking in. I remember were she
tore open 1 of her Lara bars and
was, like, sniffing it, you know,
I
But like everybody does on watkins ins, we
ran out of water, and we got to
the top that night in very dry.
Par in the next day, next morning had
to hike out, and I probably said something
1 too many times it has. Like, Smith,
we're all Thirsty.
That reminded me just shut the hell up.
That's a good 1.
Yeah.
So... But so, yeah. I mean, know, in
the 30 years I've been in Nashville of
it's just been finding excuses to go out
west or to Canada or wherever
and climb. I went 1 time This is
pretty good And I went thought down to
Mexico to climb those big volcanoes down there,
and
came back...
This is, you know, pre down cell phone
era, and I got back and my answering...
I phoned into my answering machine. That's how
old this is to get my messages.
And the manager of this artist I was
playing with this is freaking out. We're playing
the Rosie O'donnell show tomorrow morning. Where are
you? And that was, like a huge talk
show back then in the late nineties. And,
they bought a ticket for me, like that
minute for me to fly in New York.
All I had to wear was this whether
I bought on in Mexico city for 2
dollars.
Worn on this big Tv show,
because it was literally like the day after
getting back. So...
Yeah. It's always been kinda of fun like
that.
I got a chance to play out in
Switzerland on with this wellington Danny Lee, like,
right around in the late nineties. And the
band was all friends of mine. They took
all my gear back home with them, and
I went up to Grindelwald and The root
on the munch next to the Ig and
then went to mont blanc, down to Cha
and saw that a root on the north
face triangle.
So it's been a lot of just use
music to get out to wherever the cool
climbing is and then do something fun.
Yeah. That's a mate... I mean it's like
sounded. A lot, like, when I started, and
I said, oh yeah, he's, like, slowly, but
surely, you know, played on 20000
country songs, and it's, like, Yeah. The... It
sounds like your climbing career is the same.
Like you've just slowly, but surely kinda climbed
everywhere. It's Yeah.
Yes. It's they're good. You know,
first to set in Alaska,
some other stuff like that. And, you know,
with you, let's say, just when you look
back on it, you know, you've had Andre
Sharma, you know, I love the mark twice
stuff, you know. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. He's
a big fan of his. That era. Yeah.
Yeah.
Of course.
Climbing for... You don't go climbing for fun.
You go climbing to, like, you know,
destroy your inner world or whatever all.
But it's very, you know, why affirming when
you... You, when you go hard. So mh.
So let me ask you then about your
own creativity. It's know, I've been talking about
you as a side man as this as
this guy who, you know, is this ace
in the hole to get get some some
do bro or some laps steel on there.
You or some pedal steel rather on their
album and stuff like that. Where do you
express your own creativity as far as, are
you a Song as well? I know you're...
You probably...
Do it a lot in your own production,
because you've been producing bands as well. So
tell me a little bit about expressing that,
and, obviously, I mean you play a solo
on a on a on an album that's
yours. You know, you... That came out of
you. So, talk a little bit about that.
I think it's like,
you know, there's those people who wanna be
the front man super famous guy and and
those that...
Really don't you know, and wanna express their
creativity elsewhere. So tell me about your own
creativity. Well, it's... How you express it? It's
a bit h by the fact that I'm
in. Awful singer.
Yeah. Me. But 2 of my favorite artists
are awful singers, Neil Young and bob dylan
are terrible singers. But they're also amazing singers.
Right? Because they were able to find their
voice and just really sing from the heart.
I
Man, I've just been so busy doing other
people's music. I was working on some solace
stuff about
10 years ago, and I guess I had
about 8 songs in various stages of completion
when my house burned down.
And I lost it all. And I had
same... Like, backed up to a couple different
hard drives, but they're all in that. They
melted it. Yeah. Right.
And same both the music community and the
climate community were amazing when that happened. I
mean, especially the music world where I just
know so many. People over the last bunch
of years, but
my phone didn't stop ringing, you know, any
rates you wanna borrow, because, I mean, I
was at a recording section, so I had
a few my day to day things, but
I lost, like, you know,
20 instruments
bunch probably 15 Tires, tons of recording gear.
I mean, the do played my do, I
played on my first number 1 with, I
mean, stuff like that. It was really heartbreaking.
10 and tons of climb mean slides and
pictures that I didn't have digitized. I really
bummed about a lot of that too from
all over the world. You know I But
the music community is amazing.
They was, like, go fund me, couple benefit
concerts,
even the companies, you know,
Bmi,
the musician Union,
the Grand Aubrey,
Music care, which is an amazing
organization, all contributed, like, 5000 dollars.
Stephen King has a foundation. He doesn't like
to talk about it or anything, but for
artists lose their tools. I thought that was
pretty cool. Yeah. So... And the music... I
mean, the climb community helped too, you know,
the local climbing shop Cumberland transit. So, like,
just come in and buy anything you want
for half off, just I mean, I lost,
like, fuck. I don't know. 10000 dollars worth
of climbing gear, so many, like, extensive aid
gear, you know, because So many offset cams,
p pee toms, you know, I mean, tents,
all the stuff portal alleges everything, you know.
And Black Diamond helped too. They let me
do a big order.
So
that's awesome. Yeah. Outdoor research, I used to
do gear testing for them. They send me
a bunch of stuff. Yep. Yeah. Both amazing
communities. You know, I told my dad with
all the help I got, you know, it's
was like, seeing my funeral without having to
die.
You know
people that you had no idea knew who
you were or cared or whatever. You know.
Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. Nashville is amazing like
that. I mean, really. It's it's pretty cool.
Well, that's interesting because, I mean, you then
you have this whole or
you have this whole image of it being
music in general being sort of cut, you
know? And, like, that... That that's... I mean,
I'm sure that's probably part of that movie
you just made or we're just in,
not you just made it, but you were
in. I mean, there's probably some theme in
there about, like, just how cut throat it
can be. So
It's goal to hear that deep the trenches,
maybe it's not, you, among the working kinda
musicians, it's not it's not so much like
that. I Absolutely. You hit the nail on
the head. And I think Nashville is very
different from La
also.
But, yeah, The players usually really try to
support each time. I mean there's some competition
for sure.
Yeah. I mean, definitely so much pie to
go around.
Absolutely. You know, and the pot if it
keeps kinda getting smaller every year. Right. You
know, there's been, you know,
new... I keyboard programs and also plug in
the emulate steel guitar and that's kinda of,
taking a chunk out of it and then
has some the music gotten more pop, you
know, steel guitar over are being feature less.
And then live band sometimes they run tracks
instead it's using a guy and that's become
pretty commonplace in place. But the players here
are really good to each other, Man. I
feel like there's a sense that we're all
kinda in it together and kinda us against
the
establishment or the industry that probably helps as
well. So tell me then, you know, back
to this creativity thing about this little
or, I don't know what size it is,
but
you know, this... It seems like you have
some sort of program
where you you do production, like,
online and, like, kind of,
or how how it works. You know, for
sounds like for up and coming people or
people who wanna get a good... Court. So
tell me a little bit about that because
that sounds like like, kind of a little
bit of,
kind of given back to the community so
to speak and trying to help people
get their own foot in the door. Yeah.
Well, so, first of all, people
started sending me stuff to play on, you
know, over the inner internet at, email, whatever,
to play my instruments on. So people from
around the world that don't have good do
players or steel guitar players could get a
national that pro to play on their project.
And then I started putting together what they
call a slam session and doing the Smith
slam,
doing it pretty much every Friday,
and I just get a studio. There's, you
know, 1 or 2 of my favorites that
I use all the time, and
hire 5 the other, like, Friday top, you
know, session players in town, and it'll be
a... It's, like it's like forrest gum said,
it's like a box of chocolates. You know,
we'll have 2 songs that somebody emailed me
that we just run through, and we record
them in 30 minutes each.
And
any 1 of those could be on the
radio the next day they also sound because
it's all the guys playing on the huge
hits that are in there. Right And like
the old Moto town, saw many of our
moto town favorites were recording 15 or 20
minutes, you know? Right. Yeah.
You know, I mean, the music's pretty formulaic,
a lot of time, these players are just
that good. And most of those guys are
putting down 2 separate parts, 2 different electric
guitar parts.
Acoustic guy might do acoustic guitar and then
Ban joe or then man in. And, we'll
run through. Then maybe an artist that I'm
probably will come in. We might slow things
down a bit for them and do a
song or 2, and then, maybe a song
writer will come in a local song writer
that wants a good demo of a recording.
And so just coming knock out anywhere from
6 to 15 songs in a day. And
it's been great and people from anywhere in
the world can just send me a guitar
vocal, kinda work tape and we'll knock out,
you know, a big production of it. And
it doesn't have to be country. We love
doing another stuff. You know? A very few
of national musicians grew up listening to in
playing country music ago. Yeah. What were you
into?
Well,
growing Jimmy Hendrix, some sled evelyn. You know,
because I
the first Van Hale record came out right
before I started playing Guitar.
Yeah. Me too. Well, I didn't come out,
but I started playing Guitar because of Van
hale. Yeah. You you quickly realized is probably
a mistake.
Ain't never gonna... You ain't no. Yeah. I'll
be able to do it. And so I
was, like, 13 and the second concert I
see saw, my parents dropped me and my
buddy, Henry Holiday off at Oakland Coli and,
Van Hale Fair warning tour.
And it was like, saw so loud, and
people are throwing M eighties in the crowd.
Girls are taking the shirts off. It me
and my buddy were, like, equal parts just,
like, verified and, like, fuck is this fucking
amazing. You know,
it was a life changing. I mean, they...
That was done at their prime too. There
was I was sick, 6 8. Air But
I did have a cool,
full circle moment in My first show, Greg
up in the Bay area, this is like
an embarrassment of riches for concerts. Right?
My first show was rolling stones with Jay
Gil and George T opening.
And then later when I was out on
tour with Kid rock Peter Wolf from Jay
Gil. So saturday with us. We did a
couple of this giant hits, so that was
pretty fun full circle moment for me. But
yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So you're you're into
rock and roll. That hardcore in then. Yeah.
Part that moment, seeing that that lab still
you're a guitar player.
Guitar player there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So switched
it up to Do.
Yeah. Exactly. And then pedals. You get called
to play guitar anymore? Yeah. It's pretty fun.
And, you know, I mean, call the guys
who doing 24 cylinders. So un unbelievable. So...
But... Yeah. I... Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun.
I tried to keep it up. I was
working a bunch with this, young,
incredibly talented a girl, Mia Morris. She plays
every instrument, but she would have me... She
would like... We'd write songs, and then she
would
a bunch of time in her studio, putting
down all this drinks herself, and then she
would have me do a big rock solo
on some of those. So that was pretty
cool. Been But
it was cool. She... I had a good
day on Nbc, like, maybe a year and
a half ago. This guy Brian Ruby, who
I'm producing.
He was on the today show in the
morning talking about his song that I produced
with him. And then Mia was on, Em
america's because... America's got talent that evening doing.
Song that I wrote with her. Sick. He.
It's a pretty good
Nbc day for Old Smith.
Nice. Yeah. And so in the finance natural
part of it. You know,
probably in the beginning, it was more of
a feast and famine type of thing. But,
you know, it's like,
how does the finances work with, like, okay.
So you play on the song? You don't
know what's gonna happen to it and then
it goes huge.
But you... Did you get paid the 1
time or do you get royalties? Like, how
does it work for a session musician? Okay.
Well, to unpack that like, early on. Yeah.
I made. Lot less, but I needed a
lot less. I mean, when I first moved
to town, I lived kind of in the
hood, and I had half a duplex for
200 a month,
which rents in Nashville are obscene now. I
mean, 2000 a month is, you know, the
thing now. Right. It's terrible. I feel so
bad for the young kids coming up. So
the other to address the other,
yeah. The Us is 1 of the only
countries in the world that doesn't. Pay performance
royalties for
stuff that's on the radio.
So everywhere else, they'll pay the musicians if
something's a big hit, I get stuff on
the back end. We are finally starting to
get that. It's the sag after fund, the
A and, the musicians union, A sag after
a fund, and it's derived from the streaming
companies and Sirius x m all contribute to
this fund. So if you play on a
can't... Yeah. It's it's getting better. There's something
there for sure. Spotify
declines to contribute.
Of of course.
They Yeah. But but, yeah. So at least
there's that. It's a bit of a silver
lining as kind of a lot of the
industry contracts. There's at least something that's kinda
gotten better. Yeah.
That's really wild because I mean, isn't that
the story
you know, for, like, 56 years because, like,
the Fun brothers and those guys, they all
got the shaft, you know? Well, back in
the day on all those hits. Like, then
it's just now changing.
There's been
something called the sound recording... Special payments fund
that they started in the 19 thirties
when recorded music started taking off. The musicians
got together, and said we're not just gonna
play once and get paid once. So it's...
The fun shrunk as recorded music has shrunk,
but it's just a percentage of every master
recording you play. Gets mh. You get. A
little extra for that. But it's not dependent
on something's a big hit. You don't do
extra l or anything like that.
So do you have any sense? I mean,
this is kind of like
you know, I guess, the magic producers are
the ones that really have this. But, like,
when when you play on something and and
you're like, that was really great and then
it, like, doesn't go anywhere versus, like, something
that gets big. Is there just too many
moving parts to know what what was really
special and what we'll like hit.
You know, Like... It's it's, yeah. A lot
of stuff has to line up for to
do well. If it's a really hot artist,
you know that's stands a better chance.
I mean, and it's a strangely in equitable
industry, like, I remember the same week that
I played on that 3 wooden crosses for
Randy Travis. That was, you know, the biggest
song of the year C song of the
year Ac song in year. And I was
filed low budget because it was a Christian
recording.
Good. Yeah.
I won't comment on that. So I made
a hundred dollars to play on... Arguably the
biggest song of the year. Later that that
week, I pretended to play acoustic guitar with
Ras flats on the C awards
for 4 minutes and got paid 1500 dollars.
What do you mean you pretended the play?
So there's award shows a lot of time
they don't have fans. The fans that just
monitor that. Because if you have, like, 15
bands, they're throughout the course of that. I
mean, each band has, like, 30 inputs, it's
just brutal for the sound guys to try
to keep track of all that. Suddenly you're
just throw smiling and smiling and str away.
Yeah. He. You're up there playing like all
along the watch hour because why the hell.
Yeah. The day before the run through at
the rehearsal me and the fiddle player played
into opposite ends of the same chord.
And the crew goes
Good. That's funny. Don't do that tomorrow. I
don't that. Right.
That's cool. I mean, is there any, like,
is there any cy in you? Like when
you... When... Like, what what are the parts
that make a little bit cynical? Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's it's very part of the?
All have to work very very hard to
not be jade in the music industry. I
mean, Mh. And, you know, you see
some of the most talented people come a
lot and nothing ever happens for them, and
then some other folks that are just ab
invisible wind up doing really well.
He it's I mean, it's it's hard. You
know,
I mean, people hated Taylor Swift when she
was out because she wasn't a strong singer
and her father had money.
But she was, like, an incredibly hard worker,
super motivated, and then a good song that
spoke to her generation, You know? Mh.
I mean, so there are a lot of
ways, and she's, you know, she's gotten way
better as a singer, you know, you can,
you know.
And, of course, with modern technology
to to vocal.
And just beating somebody up in the studio.
You can get anybody sounding pretty good.
But, yeah, I mean,
it's hard to know what's gonna do well.
I played on this record for billing current
and I played on half the album,
and this 1 song called good directions.
I had a big Do of heart it.
But it's just a fun song. Right? And
I randomly... He's a pretty big country star,
Randomly ran to him a couple times.
Like, in the months that followed that. And
I was like, dude, That's the song. And
he's was like, I know I know I
love that song that the label hates it.
And they won't release it. And finally, he
said you have to release the song. And
so they gru put it out, and then
they did not promote it, and it lang
in it and fifties on the charts at
the bottom of the charts, and they were
about to pull it and all of a
sudden it caught fire, and it wound up
being the biggest country song of 2008,
nice.
So me and Billy were right. The labels
are on,
lot of being, you know, ask caps song
of the year and and the biggest song.
And it was fine I have a picked
Do part on it and miss solo alone.
It doesn't always... Yep it's a fun song,
son by a great singer. I my... My
my super super hot in the mix, and
I have, like, the central part of the
whole, you know, thing. So
Let's just say those kind of things are
few and far between where it all lines
something like that. That's super cool. So let
me ask you 1 more question, then we'll
go out on some music.
But let me... What about a story? You
know, you just actually...
It's a good segue. You just said they,
this song lined it all up, and it
turned out really great and everything else So...
You know, I asked you I think in
an email to to think about some of
these seminal climbing, what's the story we haven't
heard that that you go to in your
mind as far as... Is rock climbing as
far as an adventure that you've had that
we haven't covered yet that maybe jumps forward
even even recently if if it is Well,
let me tell a couple more music stories
real quick. I have a couple that I
thought would be fun.
When I was... So I got hired by
Kid rock. Talked to play in his band.
He had me up. He has this big
compound next to his house in the suburbs
of Detroit, and he have me sleep downstairs
in the rug this room in this big
studio. And 1 morning, I woke up, and
I was I was tired, and I went
upstairs and my boss or shorts to make
some coffee, you know, because I was the
only 1 in there. And,
Bob, Kid rock. He goes by Bob, if
any says, yeah. I'm good buddies with kids,
you know, they're full of shape because he's
just always bob. Bob came walking in. Was
this sp
sp old black guy, and he's like, hey,
Smith. Whenever This is d from Run Dmc,
and I'm like, am I underwear holding like
a coffee pot shaking his hand.
So, you know, hanging out on that tour.
There was... It was kinda always something crazy
like that. You know, we played the Iowa
state fair and talk I'm Arnold introduced us.
I was like, man, That seen in Austin
Powers in the bathroom, I was, like, 1
of the great moments of American cinema.
I'm And, like, you know, I did Let
and letterman them in a bunch of times,
so those Tv shows, and it was always
fun. You'd always run into different people.
We were there this... Same day doing letter
in that Christopher Walk was. And
I was running up stage tune my man
at the last minute, and I almost ran
smack into Christopher Walker. I was like, god,
It would hurt me.
And,
always fun stuff like that. And I got
asked to play on the Roger Miller tribute
record a few years ago. And so once
on was Kent roller skate a Buffalo herd
and they just brought in, like, a ton
of old op stars to sing on it.
And then last on wearing lone as me.
They brought Allison K and Dolly Part.
And none of the those were there that
day sadly, They just had a un vocalist
and doing a placeholder for us. Right. And
then the last 1, I felt back as
they sent the guys the rest of the
band home. They're like we already have the
try back for this, but we need Smith
the to his old friends, and it was
Willie Nelson Chris Kristoff Robertson and Merle H
back Hell, yes. 1 of the last things
mer man. I was like, I was driving
home. I was like, fuck, I could get
hip by a bus, and that'll Be totally
cool with it. I just... Quit music right
now, you know. Yeah. I was actually that's
funny because I just thought right before you
said it I just thought about Willie because
let me ask you and I you got
time I hope but well, you know, I
would love for you like to dish on,
like, all the assholes, but that's not a
good professional
professional stance. But who's who's like the... Who's
like the coolest? Like, who... We were talking
about Dolly dolly Look. Yeah. Yeah. Who's we're
talking about Dolly. I mean, she's been in
the industry for
I don't know. Was it 70 years, 60
year. I don't fuck... I don't know, at
least 50 or so. And, you don't, hear
anybody. I've never heard 1. Person say anything
bad about her. That's Right. Insane. Right? I
mean, yeah. And she's, like, done all kinds
of crazy stuff. She, like, s this foundation
that sends books to kids,
done all his dad is a litter, you
know, all kinds of crazy stuff. So, I
mean, she's, like, beyond ledge. She hasn't had
anything on the radio in 30 years and
she's bigger than she ever has been.
Right. Yeah. So it's cool played on a
couple things for her. And then, you know,
Willie is a legend. I mean, look at
him.
You know, what was a kid. They would
tell you in school, like, if you smoke
pot, you'll never amount to anything. I was
like, well, I could, you know, the most
successful country singer saw. I all time it's
still crushing it at 90 years old, you
know Right. But, yeah. I mean,
man,
yeah. Our don't wanna dish... There's a couple
really
well known assholes.
Friend of mine was tour managing 1 of
them, and this gotta I threw a fit,
the artists threw a fit and said you're
fired and they happen to be in the
town in North Carolina where my buddy's sister
lived. So you like Texted center her. She's
like, yeah. I'll be there in 10 minutes.
The tour just walked off the bus in
the middle of the tour with all of
the stuff for the next 2 weeks of
shows.
In orders of the no Serious of Ser.
Like... Sorry. See you later. So... Wow. It
has its... You know, being a dick has
its price sometimes and never totally. The notice
Man,
there's been so many great moments, you know,
both in cla and music.
I went,
had climbed zion before, and, my buddy Kirk
was living there for a period of time.
So I said, why don't you try to
us out a first descent for us to
work on. And he found this possible root
in the narrows,
so you like had to kinda wait 20
minutes us the Creek, the river,
and
we started working on it. Kinda... He couldn't
get the start high opened that up, and
then it got to some harder free con.
So I let him get on that.
It was kind of the summer so there
were tons of tour watching us at this
point. And he got up, and there were
2 coleman cooler sized blocks stacked on top
of each other. It was, like, pro. First
try to find a way around them. He's
like, man, there's no other way.
I was like, okay. And I got off
to the side,
and
he, like, hammered them with his hands. He's
like, okay. I'm going for it. He goes
up and pulls off these 2 blocks, and
I hear him go shit. And he's on
coming down and the blocks are coming down,
and then couple them... 1 of them hits
the wall on shatter into a bunch of
pieces, all the stuff comes thunder down. It
takes like a 30 or 40 footer,
and he's like, fine. And the crowd is
just, like shell shocked. They're just, like, gaping.
Like And he just goes back up there
and finish She's like, well, clean now.
Right.
But, yeah. Rock falls a thing, man. Had
a couple problems early on. I was on
middle cathedral really early on, and we were
on central Pillar frenzy. I was still on
the ground.
I This Japanese climber came up with us.
I mean, Japanese tourist came up with us.
And he looks at all the shattered rock
on the ground he says, do ro fall,
and
this My buddy goes, nah. Just the same,
Like, oh, yeah. He was halfway at the
pitch, and I heard just a huge rumbling.
And a bunch of stuff was coming down.
I managed to try to dodge, but stuff
is just s down stuff the size of
basketball,
you know, turning to power. When it hit
next to me. And it stopped. I was
like, fuck we made it. And I look
up, and he's hanging upside down from the
end of the rope blood just gutter pushing
out of his head about 50 feet off
the ground. I managed to lower him but
he was totally disoriented and his neck looked
fucked up too, washing and he's saying, I
can't see I can't see... I had to
make a decision whether to carry him out
with the neck injury.
Or to wait. While he's bleeding, and I
kinda fire and carried him to the car,
and we made it to the medical center
in the valley. They chewed me out for,
moving and neck injured person, but I was
like, yeah. You know.
And they helicopter him to Modest.
And,
I drove and stop by. Was gonna stop
by the hospital on the way home to
the Bay area. And
that highway 99, I guess is 3 lanes
each direction
and shit. A car comes flipping over the
divider of the freeway at me, and I
have to sw and it comes so close
to hitting me head on.
So I come that close to dying twice
in a day. I get to the hospital,
and they're gonna release him. He has 80
stitches
and a huge trump on his back.
And I see the medic that flew with
him and the helicopter. Was like, fuck, man.
You wouldn't believe just what happened to me,
just out ta here. He's was like, oh,
we went and got that guide. You see
him fly out of the car.
Oh, man.
So,
I mean, I don't know what happened with
the guy.
My buddy hugh
did some climbing after that and not the
same, you know. Right. But he was physically.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. Yeah. This is
gonna be... Thought we're gonna know bummer. When
you're getting when you're getting there, I was
like, okay. So then what happened?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah. I guess I could I editor with
a little more upbeat story.
No. That's cool. But yeah. It it... Yeah.
Go ahead. So So any great times, you
know,
a bunch of trips out to the northwest
run I'm out there for music over the
last 10 years. Brad, Carter, who I think
you had on your,
on the podcast.
Done a bunch with him out there. We
did s you on year. Almost got the
chop on that crossing underneath that glacier to
get on to the butt the way I
guess some people have gotten.
I remember 1 time was out there up
and between the flights being delayed and then
playing the show, I think I had slept
3 hours and 2 nights and we went
and did Forbidden peak.
So much fun and get to the summit,
it was so still you could match and
let it burn down, just beautiful.
You,
Canadian Rockies, so many great experiences up there.
I remember leaving National 1 morning,
and then so long the east ridge of
Edith The next morning being on top by
noon the next day, came back and did
the north face of it with a partner
the next year. All love that mountain. Canadian
eat rockies what I'm just like some of
the best seeds
the east ridge of temple saw hide you
know, so many fun experiences up there. Wow.
It's like, I don't know. You just keep
coming at it with all these different stories.
From both sides of thing, but you also
have a family. I mean, you have... Is
it 2 boys? Yeah. An older son, Evan
who's a strong climber. He don. Sites
picture of them on your Instagram. Yeah. Yeah.
He's 35.
U. It lives out Nashville, North Carolina. And
he is great too. Of them. And and
echo is 9, and it's fun to see
them together. I think we're gonna actually go
meet out the Ob this weekend
and do a little father sons camping and
climbing. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, cool, dude. I
mean, I think I've taken plenty of your
time and I appreciate it. Like I said,
I... Getting this for free.
And I actually... I think I did mention
that. Like, hey, I'd love to have you
play some music, but I also don't like
up to ask working musicians to to give
their shit away for free. So I really
appreciate it. But, if you if you have
a feeling about to playing us out. Yeah.
I would I would love it. And, and
again, I totally appreciate it, man. Yeah. Yeah.
No.
Man, gotta keep music fun. Like, a lot
of the time I'll work 60 hours during
the week and then go play Blue grass
on the week. Is for fun, you know,
just because Right.
If you... If it just only becomes work
then that kind of resonates it's the whole
point of it. You know? Yeah. That's like,
the guide problem. Right? Like, oh, yeah. Right
right? Just makes your hate climb and people
About that.
There's a good Hawaiian ending england.
Perfect.
Alright folks. Thanks for listening, and thanks to
Smith for sitting down.
And 1 of the other things I like
about these off pieced quote unquote climbing interviews.
Is that people like Smith don't have any
real incentive
to do a podcast,
a climbing podcast anyway. He's not a pro
climber, and Frankly, this will do little or
nothing
for his music career.
People like Smith do the enormous cast because
they wanna connect with me
They wanna connect with you guys, they wanna
connect with the climbing community, and that has
its own special value. So
if you do wanna follow. Smith, and I
recommend that you do because it'll break up
that climbing content you're so bored with on
your Instagram. You can check them out at
Smith underscore curry
underscore rocks
on Instagram, and I've been actually holding onto
to this interview because supposedly Smith, has been
revamp his website, and you wanted me to
wait. I think he did that. I'm gonna
go check right now.
Yes, he did do that.
Looks great. Go for the mustache. Stay for
the music
at smith
curry dot com.
Yeah. And try connecting with Smith because I
think recording is a lot of sitting around.
While, things get set up and other people
do their takes and whatnot. So He's always
been super responsive.
He loves to talk climbing. Loves to talk
music.
Okay. A small bit of news is I
am likely. Going to be up at the
Art Academy in Sq,
not a thousand percent confirmed, but it's looking
like it.
I'll let you know more on the next
episode.
But in the meantime,
of course,
check your knots. And tune in your instruments,
you are your instruments in tune.
Just like they are on this track that
Smith scent.
So we're going out on a little Smith
Curry.
On Do bro, pedal steel laps steel, I
think, maybe the guitar, it's all in here.
Enjoy.
Get out of here Dewey. What are you
y'all doing in here? We're smoking reef refer.
And you don't want no part of this
shit. You're smoking reef reverse? Yeah. Of course,
we are Can't you smell it? Come on,
Dewey we? Join the party. No. Dewey we.
You don't want this. Get out of here.
You know what? I don't want no hangover,
I can't get no hangover. It doesn't give
you a hangover.
I'll get addicted to it or something? It's
not habit forming.
Oh, okay. Well,
I don't know. I don't wanna
overdose on it. You can't o d on
it.
It's not gonna make me wanna have sex.
Is it? It makes sex even better.
Sounds kinda expensive. Is the cheapest drug there
it is.
You don't want it.
I think I kinda wanted.
Okay. But just this once. Come in.